1 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,920 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emili Jahnski, 2 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,800 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,879 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,640 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to 5 00:00:31,679 --> 00:00:35,719 the premium version of our website as well. We're joined today by Senator Josh 6 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:40,000 Holly, who is the author of the new book Manhood, The Masculine Virtues 7 00:00:40,039 --> 00:00:44,359 America Needs. Senator Holly, thank you so much for joining us. Thank 8 00:00:44,359 --> 00:00:48,359 you for having me. It's such an interesting book and obviously an important topic. 9 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,759 At one place I thought might be a good jumping off point is actually 10 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,640 when you write about your nine year old son's love of cars, you write, 11 00:00:55,679 --> 00:00:59,399 quote, he is a temple builder. All men are meant to be. 12 00:00:59,679 --> 00:01:02,039 And I think it's a good place to start, because you do write 13 00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:06,799 a lot about the sort of the purpose of man as temple building in the 14 00:01:06,879 --> 00:01:08,760 book. It's kind of a central theme. So I wanted to see if 15 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,519 you could tell us a little bit more about what you mean, especially for 16 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:15,680 folks who haven't read the book, when you say all men are meant to 17 00:01:15,719 --> 00:01:22,200 be temple builders. Yeah, it's it's a man's job to make the world 18 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,959 better, you know, to make it more beautiful, to make it more 19 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,879 productive, to make it into something that is that is beautiful. And here's 20 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,280 here's where that comes from me. It goes back to the Bible. And 21 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,799 what I do in the book is I try to make the argument that we 22 00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:44,519 need stronger men in America and we need good models, role models for what 23 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,239 men should be and what a good man is. And the ultimate foundation for 24 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,319 that, the ultimate role models to me, are found in the Bible, 25 00:01:51,359 --> 00:01:53,040 of the Biblical tradition. So I tell a lot of stories from the Bible. 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,920 I would say, well, let's look at a place where we can 27 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,560 find good role models from men. And so if you look at the you'll 28 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:04,760 see a very coherent narrative and picture of what it means to be a man 29 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:07,159 and what it means to be a good man. And what the Bible says 30 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,039 over and over through many different stories across its pages, is that men are 31 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,360 supposed to work with God to help make the world what He meant it to 32 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,159 be. And that is an incredible purpose, it's an incredibly high calling, 33 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,759 and it's something that every man can aspire to. I'm sure you're going to 34 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,199 get questions about this as you're launching the book, because you have a really 35 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:30,840 interesting section where you write about Andrew Tate. And before I had read the 36 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,960 book, I was actually going to ask about Andrew Tate because it's such a 37 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,599 relevant side show in the media cycle right now. But you kind of write 38 00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:44,560 about the unhealthy masculinity that Andrew Tate demonstrates, and you compare it to the 39 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:49,759 materialism of the Epicureans, which is really interesting. Tate converted to Islam, 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,199 and that suggests maybe that even though he has this materialist ideology, ultimately he's 41 00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:00,159 still looking for something transcendent, looking for something divine. Do you see that 42 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:07,039 as perhaps a contradiction in what you describe as modern liberalism, that even as 43 00:03:07,199 --> 00:03:13,080 they are clinging to something that is almost hedonistic and its materialism, still so 44 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,439 often you see people looking for something transcendent. Oh. I think that that 45 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:21,360 people today are all of us, are desperate for something transcendent in our lives. 46 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,919 That's a human condition, right, and that's true not just today, 47 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,360 but across time. It's certainly true for men. And I think what the 48 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,840 modern left has done is they've tried to drain away all of the transcendent and 49 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,520 anything that speaks of eternity in our lives. And that's one of the reasons 50 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,080 why they have launched these attacks on masculinity, so that they don't want anything 51 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,439 that connects to what is permanent, what is true, what is beautiful. 52 00:03:44,479 --> 00:03:46,639 They reject all of that. I mean, modern liberalism is basically atheistic. 53 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:50,240 And so that's why I think when you talk about, Okay, what does 54 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:51,919 it mean to be a man? To that matter, what does it mean 55 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,080 to be a woman, You've got to look at what are the sources of 56 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:58,520 truth where we can get good role models. And that's why in the book, 57 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,599 I've turned back to the biblical tradition, which has been so meaningful in 58 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,599 my life, but also so significant in our country's history, in our culture's 59 00:04:04,639 --> 00:04:09,520 history, and look at those stories about Okay, what's it mean to be 60 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,520 a man who protects, what's it mean to be a man who provides? 61 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,439 What's it means to be a man who builds? And a man of courage? 62 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,160 And so I try to tell those stories and tease that out. Now 63 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:23,040 you asked about Andrew Tat in the book what I say about that is there's 64 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,000 this critique from the left that all of manhood is inherently toxic. You know, 65 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,360 if you're a man, you buy definition, are contributing to the systemic 66 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:34,600 injustice of America and on and on climate change, this that the other. 67 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:42,240 I think there are some elements within or some folks, I guess I should 68 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,360 say, who would want to react against that by adopting some of the premises, 69 00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:47,759 who would say, Okay, yeah, manhood is toxic and I'm proud 70 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,879 of it. And I think a lot of what Andrew Tata has said is 71 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:54,639 in that thing, sort of like, yeah, absolutely, manhood is violent 72 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,399 inherently and it is inherently domineering, and I'm proudly so. And I just 73 00:04:59,439 --> 00:05:01,519 want to reject the whole premise, say no, no, no, male 74 00:05:01,639 --> 00:05:04,600 strength is good. We need strong men. We need men, though, 75 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,959 to step up and be responsible, the protectors, be defenders, be courageous. 76 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,879 And that's really what the book's about, you know. And that's an 77 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,439 interesting point because it's this idea that, you know, as you right, 78 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,839 to leftists, manhood is faked, to quote from the book, and then 79 00:05:19,879 --> 00:05:26,199 at the same time they're constantly trying to demonize this thing that they also say 80 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,480 is fake, something they believe is not biological reality, something they believe is 81 00:05:30,759 --> 00:05:35,240 entirely socially constructed. They say is inherently toxic when they talk about masculinity, 82 00:05:35,519 --> 00:05:40,000 and it reminds me when you write about Rousseau. They're kind of idealizing the 83 00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:45,160 state of nature, but without also recognize it, recognizing it. How did 84 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,560 they get to that disconnect? I mean it obviously makes no sense. Well, 85 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,360 I think for the modern left, and the modern left really sort of 86 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,279 Marxists at harder to be their cultural marxistem and they believe at the end of 87 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,560 the day that they're really no male or female. They're making that really clear. 88 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:02,240 There's just like this thing that is like the self, that you just 89 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,959 have your desires, right, you're what you want in life, what makes 90 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:11,240 you satisfize you, it makes you happy. And they believe that we're basically 91 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,439 androgen the cells who just have a whole bunch of desires and the universe of 92 00:06:14,519 --> 00:06:16,160 meeting less right. I mean, that's the less view. There's no meaning 93 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,800 out there. There's no God, certainly, no eternity, no heaven or 94 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,639 hell, and so the only way you can find any meaning in your life 95 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,040 is do stuff that makes you happy, pursue pleasure, make pleasure your god, 96 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:30,639 make yourself your God. That's I think the real message of the Left 97 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:36,680 when you drill down into it. And so they dislike any tradition or institution 98 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,759 or a stead of practices or teachings that cut against that. And that's why 99 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,000 they are so hostile to the Bible. It's why they're hostile to traditional masculinity 100 00:06:46,079 --> 00:06:49,879 and traditional woman that as well. And you see them insisting that, you 101 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,839 know, both of those things are oppressive and they need to be eliminated and 102 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:59,839 people should to choose many genders. And I think all of that comes down 103 00:06:59,879 --> 00:07:04,519 to their heatonists. They think the universe is meaningless and they just want people 104 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,240 to go out and choose what makes them happy. Although although we have to 105 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,079 add to that that the modern left has this authoritarian element they add in on 106 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,480 top of it where they say, yeah, choose what makes you happy, 107 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,399 but actually, why don't you let us tell you what we'll make you happy? 108 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,000 And why don't you let us control that for you? And so it's 109 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:28,079 this headonism combined with authoritarianism, but I think is really characteristic of today's left. 110 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,839 No, it strikes me that must present a very strange challenge for lawmakers 111 00:07:32,879 --> 00:07:38,480 at least who are sort of tapped into how dramatically the world is changing, 112 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,800 or the way that we see ourselves are changing, and all of this when 113 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:46,000 you kind of wake up every day and you have to legislate and govern a 114 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:49,560 country where some of the stuff a world is happening so very quickly, do 115 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:55,199 you think folks in Congress, maybe even just in the Upper Chamber have started 116 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,120 to grasp how dramatic a lot of the stuff is. As you write in 117 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,680 the book, you mean, this is a book on massive changes to the 118 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,439 way that we kind of think about biological reality, the way that we think 119 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,600 about men that have we've undergone them in the course of you know, some 120 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:13,319 people's lifetimes. Is there awareness of that at this point in the Upper Chamber 121 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:18,959 or is it still you know, people are still behind Well. I think 122 00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:22,000 that the left and that includes those who are of the left in the Senate. 123 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,879 I mean, I think the left continues to drive forward this narrative that 124 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,360 masculinity is toxic, and I think you see that reflected all the time. 125 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:35,000 I mean, there's a real assault on the idea of gender on male and 126 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,519 female, and there's certainly a real assault on traditional manhood. And the book 127 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,240 is really a defense of the need for strong, responsible men. And we 128 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,840 have a need for policy that will help encourage strong responsible men. And I 129 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:50,080 talk about this some of the book, but you know, we need to 130 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,120 have good paying jobs in this country for men who want to work with their 131 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,519 hands, for what we traditionally call blue collar workers. You know, there 132 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,480 was a time in this country where you could support a family on a blue 133 00:09:00,519 --> 00:09:03,480 collar way. I mean now so many of those jobs have gone overseas. 134 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:07,600 That was a policy choice. That wasn't like the an act of nature, 135 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:11,360 that wasn't inevitable. That was a policy choice, and it was a bad 136 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:16,639 one. So my message is strong men are good. We need strong responsible 137 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,080 men, and we need policy that will help us encourage that. Whether we're 138 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,159 talking about jobs, whether we're talking about encouraging young men to get married, 139 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:26,759 to start family, or we should be promoting all of those things and not 140 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:33,480 being apologetic about it. And this raises a very important question. And you 141 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,559 write about Marx, and you write about marcusa looking at America and looking about 142 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,840 you know, why does America not sort of go on the path that Marks 143 00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:46,679 predicts that it will, which broaches the basic chicken or egg question. Is 144 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:52,639 it culture is an economy? March Marxist writing in a time of basically technological 145 00:09:52,799 --> 00:10:00,039 economic industrialization and upheaval. Is there a way to reframe the question? And 146 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:07,200 maybe as masculinity is something that's declining, maybe not just because of the economy, 147 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:11,679 but more because of this combination of shifts and technology and shifts in culture. 148 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:16,559 Or is the economy Is there a primacy to any of those If we're 149 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,559 trying to get down to this chicken or egg question, well, I think 150 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,919 culture is king. And this is why the new Marxist, today's Marxists, 151 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,440 who have now taken over control of much of the Democrat Party, they really 152 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,440 what they don't like about American culture is they do not like it's grounding in 153 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:37,840 faith, in the tradition of the Bible. They don't like the elements of 154 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:43,279 Christianity and Judaism that are so pronounced in our culture. And I've given us 155 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:46,399 so many of our foundational ideals. I mean, let's just admit that that 156 00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:50,799 is the truth. And that's why today's liberalism is really atheistic. And I 157 00:10:50,919 --> 00:10:54,399 just stay. In the book, I make the argument this is a disaster. 158 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:58,120 I mean it really It cuts us off from our heritage, It cuts 159 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,960 us off from a sense of turn of the impermanence and transcendent meaning. And 160 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,159 it also opens up all of these crazy ideas that Okay, well, maybe 161 00:11:05,159 --> 00:11:09,559 there's no such thing as manhood or womanhood at all. We could just do 162 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,960 away with these things. So I think what we need to do is reconnects 163 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,720 with the foundations of our culture, of our history, and our heritage, 164 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,559 and the Bible is really central to that. And I think the modern leftist 165 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:26,039 attack on our history, the modern leftist attack on manhood and womanhood, is 166 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,559 ultimately going to fail because it's just out of touch with reality. I mean, 167 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,720 is a reality and biological reality. Yeah, but more even more Fundamentalium 168 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:41,519 is written in a fabric of nature who men are, and the same with 169 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:45,679 women, you know, womanhood is a biological reality, written in the fabric 170 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,320 of the universe. And I think that's why the leftists have become totally out 171 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:54,759 of touch with the world as it is, and their program consequently has become 172 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:58,759 increasingly radical. Whether we're talking about men and women's sports, or we're talking 173 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:03,320 about pretending there is no such saying as gender, or re educating kids its 174 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,120 tools to believe that gender's fake. I mean, they increasingly are just way 175 00:12:09,159 --> 00:12:13,759 way out there because I think they've lost touch with what's real. Yeah, 176 00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:18,240 I was reminded of the viral video of Jordan Neelie's tragic desk in the New 177 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:24,000 York subway in the section of your book where you write modernity has perhaps learned 178 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,639 too much from Locke and it just as like, can can men even act 179 00:12:28,759 --> 00:12:33,480 locally on these masculine virtues in a world where they're essentially in a social media 180 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:39,279 panopticon and a culture is going to pick apart? And this isn't even to 181 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,960 comment on, you know, the virtues of what happened in that particular situation, 182 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,159 but we all know that, you know, this is what happens constantly. 183 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,480 Men go viral and people pick apart, you know, Monday morning quarterback, 184 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:56,039 every different decision. Is that possible? Now? Is it is that 185 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:03,600 part of what disincentivizes men to act masculine in public? Well, I think 186 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,639 that there is a message that's sentiment from the time that they first start going 187 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,919 to school and from the time that they start attending kindergarten, for heaven's sake, 188 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,080 that is a steady drum beat of masculinity is inherently toxic. That to 189 00:13:16,159 --> 00:13:18,759 be a boy, for instance, in school is inherently disruptive. I mean, 190 00:13:18,759 --> 00:13:20,799 you can look at there's data on this. I mean, nobody should 191 00:13:20,799 --> 00:13:22,799 take my word for it. If you look at the data. You know, 192 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:28,720 how often do teachers interrupt boys play at school and their young ages versus 193 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,320 girls, And he answers they boys much much more. How often do they 194 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:35,600 corral the boys and try to subdue the boys much much, much more. 195 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:41,159 So, there's a strong preference now over the last twenty thirty years, even 196 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,639 in our educational system to try and get the boyishness out of the boys. 197 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,200 And if it doesn't work by interrupting them and disciplining them and curtailing them, 198 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,159 then we medicate them. And that just continues. As men get older, 199 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,559 you know, they get the constant message that there's something wrong with you as 200 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,039 a man, if you want to be masculine, something wrong with you, 201 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:03,200 and not only that, you're making the world worse just by being you. 202 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,519 You're making the world worse. And I want to send just the opposite message. 203 00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:09,799 And I think men are hungry to hear the opposite message because it's the 204 00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:13,679 truth, which is that by being a man, you can make the world 205 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,399 better. The world needs you. It needs you to be a man. 206 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,639 It needs you to be strong, It needs you to be courageous, It 207 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:24,759 needs you to be self sacrificial, you know, it needs you to be 208 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:26,720 willing. America needs you and your family needs you to go out and be 209 00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:31,840 willing to give your life away for other people. These are things that traditionally 210 00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:35,559 we celebrate it in men. We told stories that valorize those things. Our 211 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,120 culture is not doing that anymore, and I think we need to. And 212 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,720 that's why my book is full of a lot of stories, stories from the 213 00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:45,840 Bible, stories about men I know who are significant in my life and made 214 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,240 a difference, stories from history. I think we need to hold up those 215 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,200 role models again for all men and young men in particular, to say, 216 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,000 yeah, that's what a good man looks like. I want to be like 217 00:14:56,039 --> 00:15:01,559 that. The watched Ont Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, 218 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:05,559 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your 219 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,080 wallet. Are you at risk of losing your job to AI? Although some 220 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,759 jobs will be eliminated, more jobs could be created as the fears of artificial 221 00:15:13,799 --> 00:15:18,320 intelligence grow. Will creative destruction work in this decade? What should you do 222 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:22,240 to prepare? Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's 223 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,679 affecting you financially, be informed. Check out the Watchdout on Wall Street podcast 224 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:33,519 with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You 225 00:15:33,559 --> 00:15:37,799 know, it's it's funny as a woman to think about all of this because 226 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,240 I have to imagine for men the I mean, women get this too in 227 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,039 a different way, but the messages are so mixed. You know, be 228 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,279 strong, but not strong like that. And the book is it's full of 229 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,639 stories and examples, and part of the problem in our culture is that we 230 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,320 don't point to enough healthy examples. But what is your you know, how 231 00:15:56,759 --> 00:16:03,600 can young men navigate the difference? Walk that line between what's healthy masculinity and 232 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,000 what's healthy masculinity, you know, between what's Andrew Tate and what's maybe Jordan 233 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:12,879 Peterson. Well, what I do in the book is I talk about different 234 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,720 roles that I think men are called into, ways that they're called to serving 235 00:16:18,759 --> 00:16:21,720 to contribute. So I talk about being a husband and being a father, 236 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,759 being a builder, and being a warrior, being a priest, and bring 237 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,559 being a king. And these roles are drawn out of again the biblical tradition 238 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,559 and looking at what does the Bible show us about what it looks like to 239 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,000 be a good man? And so we look at each of those and so 240 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,240 my message is, in brief, those are the kind of roles that men 241 00:16:40,279 --> 00:16:41,480 are called to. You want to be a good man, do those things. 242 00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:45,840 Acquire the virtues, you know, Acquire the virtues of husband, even 243 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:48,039 if you're not one right now, Acquire the virtues of a father, Acquire 244 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,919 the virtues of a warrior. Discipline yourself, discipline your passions, discipline your 245 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,799 desires, train yourself to be something better. I think men want that, 246 00:16:57,039 --> 00:17:00,840 you know. I mean men want to be called a something high or they 247 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,359 want to be called to a purpose. And I just say again, I 248 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:10,079 think telling stories about men who've done this, telling stories that give us an 249 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,519 example something to aim at, I think can be powerful and giving men that 250 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:17,720 role model. I mean, yeah, every man is called in some sense 251 00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:21,279 to be a husband, father, builder, warrior, priest, and king. 252 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,839 And that's really what the book's about. You know the I can imagine 253 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,319 somebody on the left reading this book and seeing it as entirely foreign, I 254 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:33,519 mean, almost a different language. It is so rightfully biblically rooted, and 255 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:38,039 I can just imagine the head kind of spinning there and someone saying, well, 256 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,839 if we understand things, for instance, like birth control pills, divorce 257 00:17:44,079 --> 00:17:48,759 law, pornography, which you write about in the book as these clear material 258 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:56,279 catalysts for declining masculinity, does that mean that policy solutions will necessarily involve rolling 259 00:17:56,319 --> 00:18:00,599 back access to some of that stuff. How would you respond to that question, 260 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:04,240 Well, you know, you mentioned pornography. I mean one of the 261 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,079 things that I talk about in the book is regardless of what the law is, 262 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:11,839 I think we should stay the men listen. I mean, there's the 263 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,240 siren song that the left wants you to believe, which is that, why 264 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,880 don't you spend your time looking at porn on screens and entertaining yourself in various 265 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,799 other ways. Don't spending your time making yourself stronger, providing for your family, 266 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,079 or otherwise being involved in a community. Why is that? Because men 267 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,200 who are strong in that way, men who discipline their passions, men who 268 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:38,039 learn to master themselves and then go out and become providers and defenders of their 269 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:42,160 families. Those men are actually pretty strong men. They're a threat to the 270 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,000 status quo, right, They're a threat to the liberal ruling class that wants 271 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,599 to run the country on its own. Those men are like, hold on, 272 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,960 no, wait, actually I want to have a say I'm going to 273 00:18:52,039 --> 00:18:53,480 be involved in my community. I'm going to be involved in my church, 274 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,680 I'm going to be involved in my government. So I think there's this constant, 275 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,839 steady drum beat again to men, which is, yeah, just go 276 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,599 entertain yourself, go just go do here, you know, watch some of 277 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:08,279 this and let us run the country. And my message to men is the 278 00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:12,279 most powerful and profound change that we can make in this country is to change 279 00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:15,279 our own character. It's to say, no, I'm going to be a 280 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:18,400 man of integrity, a man of courage, a man of fidelity. I'm 281 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,079 going to learn to discipline myself, and by doing that, I'll be able 282 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:26,400 to help change my family, my neighborhood, and ultimately my country. You 283 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,519 know. So whether policy changes we should talk about, yeah, and I 284 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:33,240 talk about some of those in the book, particularly on the economic front, 285 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:37,960 and we can talk about cultural changes as well. But I think my message 286 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,720 to men would be really, the most profound, fundamental and important change in 287 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:48,640 America begins with you. It begins in your character. Well again, and 288 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,799 maybe if we talk about those economic things just for a second, especially as 289 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,599 generative AI is sweeping the country, chat GPT sweeping the country right now, 290 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,640 and people are wondering what the future work force looks like. But you write 291 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,960 about you building things. You write about the decline of blue collar work in 292 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,000 the country, and even with things you know, like chips factories, there's 293 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,200 a lack of Americans, we're told, who are able to staff high levels 294 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,960 of those positions. So in a world that's getting even more high tech every 295 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,200 single day, realistically, what does it look like to make things in America 296 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,640 again? And how can we do it? Well? Listen, We're not 297 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,119 going to cross as a country unless we actually build things in America. And 298 00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:36,319 my view is is that we shouldn't be sky about adopting economic policies that try 299 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,000 to build up our industry, that try to provide good paying jobs to men 300 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,079 who have a skill, who want to learn a skill, who work with 301 00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:48,119 their hands. Seventy percent of men in this country don't have a four year 302 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,000 college degree, and they shouldn't have to get one in order to get a 303 00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:56,000 good paying job and provide for a family. So this is one of the 304 00:20:56,079 --> 00:21:00,559 reasons why I'm in favor of policy like terraffs on China, for example, 305 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,039 that will bring back good paying jobs to this country, that will help encourage 306 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,279 industry here in the United States. And I just reject the premise that I 307 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:15,319 think has been adopted frankly by both political parties that will you know, manufacturing 308 00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:18,519 and blue collar work is the way of the past, that's all gone. 309 00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:22,599 Now we're only we're just going to subsist on white collar service jobs in America. 310 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:25,000 And if you can't do those, I guess you're the steps to take 311 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,319 a government check. You know, no way, no way. The future 312 00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:33,279 of our country, if we're going to have one, is where men can 313 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:37,519 get good paying jobs and provide for their families, Where men and women together 314 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,519 can raise their families in the communities they grew up in and can provide and 315 00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:48,279 can find good work for themselves there and support a family according to their values. 316 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:52,039 And we've we've got to make some economic changes to get there. I 317 00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,079 thought this section of your book Actually on Dependency was really good and raises some 318 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,039 interesting questions for pronatalist policy. These conservatives who have been working on that, 319 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,039 Senator Romney, Senator Rubio, other offices that have been working on, especially 320 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:11,960 after dabs, what a conservative family policy looks like. Could you talk a 321 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,240 little bit about, especially, you know, those cash payment bills where you 322 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:18,680 know parents would I think this is just my argument that Foster's a sense of 323 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,680 dependency where parents are getting a check every single month and their bank account per 324 00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:27,839 child until the child is eighteen. Great intentions, but I think you're getting 325 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:33,880 into dependency questions there. So could you talk about masculinity and its intersection with 326 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,920 that concept of dependency and how conservative should be thinking about that when they're looking 327 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:44,839 at how to create fathers and create husbands in the first place. Absolutely, 328 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,400 I think we have got to be doing everything we can to move men who 329 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,920 are currently not working or able bodied but they're not working, to move them 330 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,680 into work, and we need to send an unequivocal message that America needs your 331 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,759 work, your family needs your work. We are all less than what we 332 00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:06,319 could be if we've got guys out there who aren't working because we need their 333 00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:10,079 contributions. They can make contributions that are unique, and we need them to 334 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,319 do that, their families need them to do that. I'm really alarmed by 335 00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:18,519 the forty fifty year trend now in more and more men who again who are 336 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:22,319 able bodied, who are choosing not even to look for work. They're dropping 337 00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:25,240 out of the labor force. And you know, I think a lot of 338 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,680 this is the economic policies we've adopted were simultaneously. We have paid men not 339 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,079 to work on the one hand, and we sent good paying jobs away or 340 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,759 see. So you put those two together and you have our current crisis. 341 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,559 So the answer to that, I think is we've got to push men out 342 00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:44,559 of dependency, which means those who should who can work, should work. 343 00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:49,119 We need to look at the welfare programs for men that are allowing able bodied 344 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:55,640 men to avoid work where it's actually they can make more by not working than 345 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,880 they can in the labor force. You know, we've got to reform that 346 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,000 and say no, men, we need you in the labor force. We're 347 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:03,000 not going to pay you to not have a job when you're able to have 348 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,640 one. And then the flip of it is the flip side of that is 349 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,079 the complementary side. We've got to work to bring back good paying jobs, 350 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,079 blue collar jobs to this country, where a guy can go out and get 351 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,200 a job as an electrician, as a plumber in a factory building thing to 352 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:21,319 say, hey, this is a good wage. I can make a good 353 00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:23,319 wage here. I can get married on this wage. I can have some 354 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,000 kids on this wage. My wife and I, you know, we can 355 00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:32,119 raise our family together and to turn a course for our family together with these 356 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,000 jobs. That's the kind of policy I think we need. It is a 357 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,799 pro work, pro independence policy, and it's one that has healthy manhood, 358 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,839 that wants to be a contributor, wants to provide, wants to protect. 359 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,880 It has that at its core. I remember covering your campaign back in twenty 360 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,240 eighteen when you talked about three things over and over again, Hollywood, Washington, 361 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,799 and Wall Street. You said that in so many different speeches, and 362 00:24:57,839 --> 00:25:02,920 I thought it was really really important coming from a Republican candidate. I want 363 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,119 to ask now that you have been in the United States Senate for a while 364 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,759 and presumably have come into contact with folks from Hollywood, Washington, and Wall 365 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,559 Street in your capacity as a senator. Often what we see in elite circles 366 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:21,720 is that they live lives that they aren't prescribing for others. Tim Carney has 367 00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:25,160 called this the Lena Dunham fallacy, I think is what he says in alienated 368 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:30,759 America, where you have higher levels of marriage and less divorce and higher religiosity, 369 00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:33,799 et cetera, et cetera. People in the upper class who are telling 370 00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:37,400 people in the rest of America that it's okay to sort of break these chains 371 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,000 of tradition, etc. Etc. How do you rate the state of masculinity 372 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:48,920 in these these sort of elite circles. Is there is the problem as pointed 373 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,799 as it is in the rest of the country. Is it just as bad 374 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,400 or is it in some ways, perhaps even worse in these these corridors in 375 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,599 Hollywood, Washington, in Wall Street. Well, I think, on the 376 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,559 one hand, and rich people can insulate themselves from a lot of the trouble 377 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,319 they call us for others by just spending their money. You know. So 378 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,480 you think about the crime issue, you think about the drug issue. I 379 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,519 mean, what do what do the wealthy do and to go out and hire 380 00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:18,000 their own police forces. Effectively, they go out and get private security. 381 00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:23,279 They send their kids to elite private schools with rigorous screening processes for this, 382 00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:26,759 that, and the other. Right, so they exempt themselves. You think 383 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:30,920 about the chaos that their policies are causing in our culture. You know, 384 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,799 the chaos that comes with the rampant drug abuse, that comes with open borders, 385 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:38,480 that comes with jobs loss and communities broken. Now rich people to sort 386 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,279 of spend their way out of that, which is, you know, nice 387 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:45,519 for them, I guess, but for everybody else, is a disaster. 388 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,359 In terms of the message though that these people are sending to the rest of 389 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,480 the country, especially when it comes to manhood. I think it's bad, 390 00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:56,759 and it frankly makes me think of my boyhood hero, Fiodore Roosevelt, who 391 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,160 came from that class. He came from a very wealthy family. But he 392 00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:07,000 was extremely critical in his day of the upper class and of the elite because 393 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:11,599 he thought that the example they were studying for the country and the message they 394 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,359 were sending the country was terrible. And he was right then and he'd be 395 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,759 right now to make that same critique. I think that the Hollywood, Washington 396 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:25,599 Wall Street class that constantly denigrates traditional manhood, that constantly says stuff like manhood 397 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,160 is inherently toxic, that constantly says we don't need more blue collar work in 398 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,119 this country, and that if you want to be a father and a husband, 399 00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:38,240 that there's something wrong with you, and that that's you know, traditionalists 400 00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:42,279 and hide bound and patriarchal. Right. I think that's a terrible message. 401 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,279 I think that is much the problem of the message they are sending to the 402 00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:49,599 rest of the country, even as they spend their way out of the consequences 403 00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:53,000 of that message. And so we need to reverse that. And again, 404 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:56,400 I think the way we do that is we tell better stories, we hold 405 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,839 up the truth, we provide good role models, and we say to men, 406 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,599 we need you, we need you to be strong. It's good to 407 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:07,039 be a man, be a man who is strong, who's a contributor, 408 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,640 who's a provider. In the sort of online right circles where people are chatting 409 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,519 about these things. The first Thing's story went really viral a couple months ago 410 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:22,680 by Lomez, and it was describing what's called the Longhouse phenomenon, and he 411 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,599 wrote, quote, more than anything, the longhouse refers to the remarkable overcorrection 412 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,359 of the last two generations towards social norms centering feminine needs and feminine methods for 413 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,680 controlling, directing, and modeling behavior. Many from the left, right, 414 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,119 and center have made note of this shift. What if I'm interesting about that 415 00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:41,440 is one of my college jobs was helping Christina hoff Summers on the rerelease of 416 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,920 War Against Boys, and so I was like twenty fourteen a really important book 417 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,640 that picked up on Yeah, how the you know you write about this as 418 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,799 well, the way that we treat young boys in elementary school and high school. 419 00:28:55,039 --> 00:29:00,079 How that actually also has ripple effects on women? Is there? How 420 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680 do you describe the reverse of it if you look at not just elite institutions, 421 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,559 what maybe society as a whole that have largely been in some very important 422 00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:11,480 ways. I guess you could say feminized. Is that really what we're looking 423 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,559 at? I mean, our men sort of forced not just in academia, 424 00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:18,960 but also maybe in the workplace to deal with new norms that may push them 425 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:23,359 out of places they would otherwise be interested in or engage in. And if 426 00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:27,000 so, what do we do about that? I would think that it's not 427 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:32,680 necessarily even feminized. It's really these days androgenized, because you see a corresponding 428 00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:36,000 war on femininity I mean, this is the war on girls sports, for 429 00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:37,799 example, the war on the very concept of what it is to be a 430 00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:41,279 woman. I mean, now, biological males or can be women the less 431 00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:45,160 said, and we must treat them as such, and we must honor them 432 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,799 as such. And this is bizarre, right, I mean, you talk 433 00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:51,039 about an attack on femininity. So I think what you see from the left 434 00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:56,039 is an attack on both manhood and womanhood. And you see them pushing this 435 00:29:56,119 --> 00:30:02,039 idea that really what we are at bas is androgynous consumers, you know, 436 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,400 So just make yourself happy again, let them tell you how to make yourself 437 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,000 happy, but be an androgynous consumer. And is that disorienting to men? 438 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,279 Yes? It is? It is. Is it detrimental, Yes, it 439 00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:19,119 is profoundly so. It's profoundly detrimental for a young boy to be told in 440 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:26,240 class that he mustn't he mustn't be energetic, that he has got to sit 441 00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:30,240 still or be medicated, you know, I mean it. It is profoundly 442 00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,319 disorienting for a teenage boy to be told, no, you shouldn't aspire to 443 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:40,759 be adventuresome or strong or trailblazer. You shouldn't be interested in hunting or fishing 444 00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:47,119 or anything quote unquote traditional, because that's somehow systemically bigoted, racist, evil, 445 00:30:47,319 --> 00:30:51,799 you know, pick your edgective. So I think that the trend here, 446 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,000 the messages that are getting sent to men are very disorienting, very disheartening. 447 00:30:56,079 --> 00:31:00,559 And I think one of the reasons you see so many young men struggling 448 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:04,480 with depression and generalized lack of purpose is that they feel like, well, 449 00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:10,599 if they pursue the passions and interests that they want to pursue, then they're 450 00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:12,519 going to be making the world the worst place. And if they do nothing, 451 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,960 then they feel like they have no purpose in life. And I write 452 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,000 about some of my students. I was a professor of law school for several 453 00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,279 years, and I write about some of the students who I interacted with who 454 00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:26,519 are suffering from just this kind of malaise, if you like. And I 455 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:30,119 think so much of that is culturally driven, and it is this push towards 456 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:36,200 androgyny, this push toward just becoming a nameless, faceless consumer. Men don't 457 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,640 want that, women don't want that, and we need to provide, I 458 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,880 think, a better vision of what a responsible man looks like. It's interesting 459 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,440 because you know, Mark's actually write about that too, people just sort of 460 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:52,359 being whittled down to androgynous widgets that could be stuffed into any different place whenever 461 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,720 their corporate overlord needs them to be. That, you know, getting all 462 00:31:55,759 --> 00:32:00,119 the distinctions of nationality and gender just being erased so that people are able to 463 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,039 be plugged into different boxes. And the Left remarkably is now the side going 464 00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:07,960 along with that when it comes to, you know, pushing puberty blockers on 465 00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:13,160 children and everything else. I mean, it's just remarkable how quickly that happened. 466 00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:16,200 Yes, it's absolutely true, and it's a great, great point. 467 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,240 And this is I think part of the new Left, their embrace of Marks. 468 00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:25,720 What they have taken from him is the emphasis on a victimhood, on 469 00:32:25,799 --> 00:32:31,200 the emphasis on the need for the overturning of our social structures. But of 470 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,480 course what they really want to overturn above all is our culture, you know. 471 00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:40,559 So they've come to accept this idea of global markets and global corporations. 472 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:44,000 The modern left loves those things, right, I mean, that's their base 473 00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,519 now, they're base. And the modern Left are people who fly in private 474 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:51,519 jets and ten conferences and do us right. That's that is the base of 475 00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:54,640 the Democrat Party. Today. So they love the global market and the free 476 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,319 flow of capital. They love that, they love consumerism. They're for it 477 00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:02,400 one hundred percent. What are they not for? They're not for our culture 478 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,480 that says there is such a thing as a God, there is such a 479 00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:10,559 thing as eternity, that our rights come from God, and that there's such 480 00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:14,200 a thing as a man and a woman. And they want to tear that 481 00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:16,640 down because they think what we need, above all is a new culture, 482 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:21,960 a new way of thinking about reality. That's the new Marxism. And you 483 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,000 see that everywhere on the left. You see it in practically every program that 484 00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,880 they push these days. And I think that's why our fights our culture have 485 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,039 become so pointed, because we're really struggling over some of the basic beliefs about 486 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,680 what it is to be human, to be man and woman, and of 487 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,240 course to be an American. You know it. Just as we're wrapping up 488 00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:44,599 here, the last question I wanted to ask is, obviously we talked earlier 489 00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:51,640 about Andrew Tait, is there a risk that as we continue ignoring or downplaying 490 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:58,039 healthy incarnations of masculinity, what we're going to get is really unhealthy representations of 491 00:33:58,079 --> 00:34:02,480 masculinity that are maybe hyper masculine or that as men, I mean we This 492 00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:07,079 is a conversation every time there's another tragic and awful mass shooting, you look 493 00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:10,360 at a young, often fatherless male is just sort of wandering through the cultural 494 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,440 wilderness and landing in some really dangerous places. Is that the risk that the 495 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:20,320 left actually is running us into here is that the more that you denigrate healthy 496 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,920 versions of masculinity, the more you deny the existence of masculinity in and of 497 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:30,159 itself, the more men are going to be looking in some really bad places 498 00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:35,440 to feel fulfillment and purpose and order. As you right, Well, I 499 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,159 think you see that. I think the research bears that out, and the 500 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:42,400 statistics bread that out. And I'm thinking of just gang culture, for instance, 501 00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:47,559 in all across the country, cutting across geography, it's a mostly young 502 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:50,880 men, of course, in gang culture. But but you know, cutting 503 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,679 across geography, cutting across race, cutting across you know, various other social 504 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,800 markers. But what you see consistently is young men who don't have fathers, 505 00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:02,679 don't have positive role models. What do they do? Well? They adopt 506 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,159 a violent masculine pose, right, And it really is a pose because nobody's 507 00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:14,320 ever helped them find a way to take their energy, their drive, their 508 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,320 ambition, and to turn that into something that is responsible, that is constructive, 509 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,920 that provides for others. So they adopt this sort of violent pose and 510 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,559 it has terrible consequences. And that's been true for decades, you know. 511 00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:28,840 So we and people have researched this, written on it at length. So 512 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,559 yes, I think the answer to your question is yes. In order to 513 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:35,920 steer away from that, the answer is not to say, oh, men 514 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,840 are inherently toxic. That's ridiculous. The answers to say, we need to 515 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,159 recover what a good man looks like, and we need to start by saying 516 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:47,159 good men, strong men are good things. We need those in our country, 517 00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:51,480 and we need to look back to our best and deepest traditions, like 518 00:35:51,519 --> 00:35:54,039 the tradition of the Bible, the traditions of our culture, and to pull 519 00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:58,599 out these stories are like, Yeah, that's that's what a good man looks 520 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:01,360 like. We need those kind of men again in our families, in our 521 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:07,000 neighborhoods, and in our nation. The book is called Manhood, the Masculine 522 00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:10,039 Virtues America needs. Senator Josh Holly, thank you so much for joining the 523 00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:15,239 show. Thank you for having me. Of course, you've been listening to 524 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,880 another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Joshinski, culture editor here 525 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,719 at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, be 526 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:30,039 lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray. All right, are young