WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:13.240 Third lap the podcast with Alejandro Gaviria and Ricardo Silva Romero, a podcast of 2 00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:20.640 the locutorio arroba el locutorio dese you have ever felt that I sancho, Santo, 3 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:23.920 No, no, no. I' ve felt yes. Yes, 4 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:28.199 I mean, conversations that sound strange sometimes if sometimes the cell phone starts to 5 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:34.200 acquire this life of its own. Yes, and especially in recent years I 6 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:39.880 have felt that all conversations can be recorded. I haven' t come to 7 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:45.759 the point of greeting the chusador, at the beginning of the ad saying bad 8 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:49.479 words, bad words, let' s say hello. Kindly. It hasn 9 00:00:49.520 --> 00:01:02.479 ' t gotten that far. Yes, hello, Ricardo, hello, Alejandro, 10 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:07.920 we meet again. Yes again. I want to talk about the situation 11 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.519 again, but perhaps from a broader point of view, with more context. 12 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:19.159 Yeah, to talk a little bit of agreement that it' s called in 13 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:26.799 Colombia the churadas the churadas. True, there has always been that shadow in 14 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:32.400 Colombian politics and day to day, and it is not recent, but there 15 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:42.879 is, therefore, history of the follow- up to opponents and those who 16 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:51.359 do not agree with certain causes long ago, since I, I believe seventy 17 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:55.280 years of one being able to trace that. A first dimension of this rich 18 00:01:55.400 --> 00:02:01.000 subject is how power, the enforcement of power in almost all spheres, including 19 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:08.960 democratic ones, leads to this kind of totalitarian attempts. Yes, the churadas 20 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:14.719 are the protagonists of Orwell' s novel, one thousand nine hundred and eighty 21 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:19.800 - four, which is the year forty- nine, which has something of 22 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:25.039 or, picks up some of the Stalinist purges that were already beginning to be 23 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:29.400 known in much of Europe. And that' s this idea of controlling all 24 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:34.639 spheres of life, including everyone' s private life, to try to exercise 25 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:45.639 power. Yes, it is that illusion or that ambition of control of lives 26 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:53.960 and that paranoia that is doubled in power is always surprising. As you said, 27 00:02:54.039 --> 00:03:01.520 it is impressive that, even with democratic projects, everything ended up drifting 28 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:14.080 there. Finish people who were popularly elected, entrenching themselves and feeling that they 29 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:17.319 have to do it that is not that in their case it is justified. 30 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:23.759 It may be a mythology, but I remember having a conversation several years ago, 31 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:29.520 a decade already with someone who had worked in I think there was still 32 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:36.319 no presidential palace as it exists today. Before that where I am the Chancellery, 33 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.360 that of San Carlos, the Teatro Colón. Yes, the Palace of 34 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:44.159 San Carlos, and that there was some kind of booth similar to this one 35 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.120 where we' re recording. And in that booth there was a shelf and 36 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:58.159 that shelf was full of magnetic tapes where there were probably recordings very focused on 37 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:05.439 the political world. So, yeah, there, there' s a whole 38 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:14.759 timeline you could do. I was thinking of even the National Front and an 39 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:19.920 uncle of mine, brother and my mother, who was always watched because he 40 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.600 was from a very radical left, that is, he had spent times in 41 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:31.160 the Palace of Mao had come, because, to bring us this sense, 42 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:40.040 absolutely guarded and in his office on the phone it was clear for that group 43 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.920 of people of that time. Those, then, were the sixties and seventy 44 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:47.879 who listened to them and watched over them. That' s, that' 45 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:50.639 s been common for a long time. Here I mean, you imagine a 46 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:56.279 president at what point. It won' t be at the end of the 47 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.839 afternoon, but at the beginning of the morning, with your pajamas you may 48 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:04.439 still be having a coffee that, as part of your job is it' 49 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:06.160 s good to get the presidents in pajamas. I think it' s hard, 50 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:12.560 you have to make one sound or you get an executive summary. Yes, 51 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.439 and today I think it' s going to be more distressing. I 52 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:23.360 always imagined myself to educate in pajamas, getting up very early to look at 53 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:28.959 the cell phone, no longer asking for information, but he alone on Twitter, 54 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:31.040 seeing who is talking who. It' s not very easy today to 55 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:35.759 be paranoid and looking out for everything. Today, as there is so much 56 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:42.759 information, there are so many comments and social networks have so much and you 57 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.519 can know so much about the opinions about the world. Probably a lot of 58 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.920 presidents spend time there, not much who we have an exercise. I think 59 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.480 he likes his cell phone, too. He' s fascinated by his cell 60 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.120 phone. And besides, there is something that I found fascinating this week to 61 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:03.319 talk a little bit about the conjuncture, as we promised, which is the 62 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:12.560 case of friendly fire, the case of both the First Lady and the head 63 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:17.920 of the House of Nariño, talking about the possibility that within the government itself 64 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:27.680 there are people making them a case to entangle them and I find it interesting 65 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:33.040 that everything is leaking, that is, spies today are not so necessary. 66 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:41.839 I get the impression that everything comes out very soon and I never remember a 67 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:47.600 pulse within such a public government, I mean, I guess all governments have 68 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:51.480 groups, people who disagree, people who sabotage each other, but one. 69 00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:00.199 The citizenry doesn' t get it. Now, this comes and a half 70 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:08.759 as if an investigation, sources, leaks that were what we were used to 71 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:15.160 in the governments of the last fifty years were not really necessary, or whatever, 72 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:21.759 and the leaks are tweeted by the protagonists themselves. So it' s 73 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:28.680 a new world where everyone is a spy, everyone filters and I' m 74 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:31.480 worried about that profession, let' s say they are. I think there 75 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:38.160 is inside the petro government or some kind of complicated, impressive internal civil war. 76 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:42.439 Probably all governments had factions. I remember the government of Juan Manuel Santos 77 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:45.680 at the beginning that spoke of a team of rivals, that there were political 78 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:53.000 rivals interested in power later, yes, but I was aware. Everything wasn 79 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.319 ' t conscious. It was part of a strategy of a kind like weights 80 00:07:56.360 --> 00:08:01.120 and counterweights inside. Yes, this decentralization of power, but here there are 81 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:07.720 two factions, well identified, of actions in a very complex way. When 82 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:13.879 I was in the government, there was already some paranoid mentality and the word 83 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.680 has a story of a famous article over there about paranoid mentality in published American 84 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:22.800 politics. I think that in the late 1960s by a gringo sociologist, when 85 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:31.680 the Council of Ministers was about to begin, there was a lady from the 86 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:37.600 police with a box and we all had to put her cell phone off so 87 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.440 that no meeting was going to be recorded or something strange was going to happen. 88 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.919 There was only one person who did not deliver the cell phone, besides 89 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.759 President Petro, of course it was Laura Sarabia. Yes, yes, she 90 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:56.679 was the only one with a cellular right, but there was a difficult time, 91 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.240 even that happened before the Council of Minister began. If some of my 92 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:03.840 this delivered on his cell phone recently because they were still there answering messages from 93 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:13.000 whatsapro, which is like forty percent of what a minister does. But there 94 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.600 is a very complex topic inside, very complex inside. It is a division 95 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:22.639 that when leaked to the media and reflected is this government fight, it interprets 96 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:28.120 as attacks, but the bottom, what is being seen, is a reflection 97 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.600 of what is happening internally. Sure, it' s crazy somehow, not 98 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:39.159 crazy. I do not really remember this in any Government that the Government itself 99 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:46.159 denounces the same Government and seeks sympathy from viewers as if one says yes poor 100 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.879 those of the Government, because these others of the Government are its enemies. 101 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:56.679 It' s a crazy thing that I wouldn' t even give for satire, 102 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:05.960 because it wouldn' t be funny to say yes, it would only 103 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.360 reveal a very particular behavior, not of this society, but of that group 104 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.720 of people who are in power. The exercise of power, in addition to 105 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:15.799 having these misdeeds from the blunders, always has an involuntary mood. I don 106 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:18.919 ' t know if it was for Sátira Ricardo, but this topic of what 107 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.879 good happens all this, this begins to be reflected in the media and the 108 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.960 President gave a social network in a more or less obsessive, permanent way and 109 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.559 continues to say it' s all about a Nazi strategy. Yeah, and 110 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.480 then he said it' s kind of a mosat journalism Yeah. Then there 111 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:50.840 is a paranoid interpretation also with these appeals a little strange. I was thinking 112 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:58.879 that we' ve already used it as a trigger or strategy in Rip Bab 113 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:09.600 van Winkle' s story, the story of the man who falls asleep and 114 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:11.279 dawns decades later and tells him how the country is and he can' t 115 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:18.519 believe it. Sometimes I think about what someone who fell asleep in the year 116 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:26.960 would say I don' t know ninety- two and suddenly wakes up today 117 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:30.600 and they tell him that this is the government, that the president tweets all 118 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.519 day, that the First Lady says that the government is not after her and 119 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.720 that, well, it would also be terrified. If he slept in the 120 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:41.440 ninety- two, he would be buried that Andrés Pastella had not been President, 121 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:46.080 for example, who was the presenter of theory as far as there was 122 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.600 a person from the ninety- two, that is, there would be a 123 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.240 lot. Well, I hadn' t been mayor before. It was more 124 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:58.120 possible then. But yes, it seems to me that one cannot stop losing 125 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.519 the perspective of the absurd, of the crazy thing that is happening, as 126 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:07.679 if he had fallen asleep fifty years ago. We have to contribute like this. 127 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:09.919 It' s not a government, this isn' t serious. That 128 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:16.399 ' s not how the officials behave and I' m not talking about presidents, 129 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:24.240 ministers or anything. An official has to be decent and he has to 130 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:26.879 write well and he has to answer for what he does. Anyway, this 131 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:35.080 unscrupulous and responsible thing. It' s unusual and we can' t get 132 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:41.399 used to it like you get used to the President calling a journalist a mosat 133 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:46.679 journalism. So, it happens in Venezuela, it happens in Russia, it 134 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:52.000 happens in places that are unbound and that have already given up on democracy. 135 00:12:54.080 --> 00:13:00.240 I usually walk here in the parrio where we recorded and remembered this week a 136 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:05.840 conversation I had with a neighbor who was even Minister of Finance, also a 137 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:11.960 cult type. He likes to read at the time of the dauz. I 138 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.320 was a minister there, yes, no. He had been Minister in the 139 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.759 eighties, in the eighties, and it was the time of the Chussatldas and 140 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:24.919 he told me a story that I later wrote in the column about a subject 141 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.559 of Ricardo that has been at the center of the discussion these days, which 142 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:37.200 is when the President vehemently and quite assertively petro saying we noch used and what 143 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.159 he is saying is I have never given the clear order, of course and 144 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:48.360 the story that this gentleman told me was the next one. You don' 145 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:56.600 t have to give the order. Power uses more subtle ways of conveying such 146 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:03.000 problematic issues. And the talk of a historic dispute between Henry II and Thomas 147 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:09.639 Beckett in the year one hundred and sixty- four and I wrote the following. 148 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.720 The King of England. Henry II then attempted to limit the independence of 149 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:20.120 the Church. The King then found a very open and stubborn resistance, Father 150 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:26.639 Thomas Beckett. The artshui was can Burry, the clash of powers then reached 151 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:35.960 epic dimensions. Henry II accused Becket of opposing the Royal Authority. See that 152 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:41.120 he threatened the king with excommunication. Pope Alexander III tried to calm his spirits, 153 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.039 but his concord efforts proved unsuccessful. Henry II has agreed to hand over 154 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.679 the expropriated goods to the Church and be never accepted by the Royal Authority on 155 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:58.960 divine affairs. Henry II then uttered an ominous phrase that would have deadly consequences. 156 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.759 He said the next one There won' t be anyone capable of freeing 157 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.799 me from that turbulent priest. In the opinion of many historians, Henry Indo 158 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.639 was not giving a peremptory order or inviting the gentlemen of the Court to take 159 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.440 matters into their own hands, but they were willing to do everything in order 160 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.720 to congratulate themselves with the master of tremendous power. Yeah, I mean, 161 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.840 you don' t have to give the order, you don' t have 162 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:24.639 to give the time. You just have to insinuate. There will always be 163 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:31.360 courtiers willing to go a little further. And when we talk about that almost 164 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:39.480 bloody struggle within the Government, we are talking about a struggle also at the 165 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:46.799 heart of the President. Maybe I did and I kept thinking about the office, 166 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.919 about bringing reasons to the President, about bringing versions and suspicions to the 167 00:15:52.919 --> 00:16:00.279 President who, returning to Scenic two years later, was very common this guy 168 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:11.159 was about to die under three Caligula emperors. I' m not bad, 169 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.960 man. They ordered him to be executed because they were given the reason he 170 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:22.200 did not respect them. And it made that common both the entrenchment, the 171 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:32.279 paranoia and the office of spying on those who are not totally committed to the 172 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:37.840 cause. And what is disheartening is that the cause is never, for example, 173 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:45.480 social justice or, for example, democracy. The cause is the president, 174 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.600 the president, the emperor or the power, and the cause is the 175 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:56.080 loyalty that is there. They are being far away and, as there is 176 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.559 this moral panic already among everyone. Yeah, well, they' re that 177 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.400 one in that mentality. It' s quite possible that someone would squeal to 178 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:10.160 show the President that those on the other side are effectively betraying him. I 179 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:11.720 mean, you can come in. It' s always happened. If an 180 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:18.039 explicit order is not needed, a large centralized strategy is not needed, there 181 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:25.400 is no need for the President to direct that small room. Today we have 182 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:33.240 a much more effective and insidious technology to make these things more delivered and everything 183 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.880 is easy Not very good devices that can be connected to the one who knows 184 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:45.079 you have ever felt wide, Santo Nuno. That' s right. Yeah, 185 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.160 I mean, conversations that sound strange sometimes if sometimes the cell phone starts 186 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:56.000 to take on a certain life of its own. Yes, and especially in 187 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:02.039 recent years I have felt that all conversations may be being recorded. I didn 188 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:07.839 ' t get to the point where I greeted the pimp at the beginning of 189 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:08.640 the call to say bad words and bad words. Let' s go say 190 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.839 hi. Kindly, it didn' t come as much as it did. 191 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.000 Well turns he remembers a joke from our friend like a Daniel San Pedro Spina 192 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.119 who said that those who had the ungrateful at the end of chusar a bartalocity 193 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.839 were ramently working now extras. It wasn' t a very fair job. 194 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.279 Yeah, yeah, I try to be brief because, I mean, I 195 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:37.559 have respect for who they' re doing. I was thinking about the work 196 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.759 the cell phone has a very serious problem and it is that one really is 197 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:45.039 spying, that is, when it belongs to social networks, that it is 198 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.559 not spying so many companies, that is, one speaks something and appears the 199 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.039 advertising of what it spoke to the two minutes completely. It' s a 200 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:57.599 time of spies, in addition to constant scams you got messages, they call 201 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:04.160 it phones. It' s just a time to hide from technology. It 202 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:08.119 is interesting because it is not only power that is spying on us. Vendors 203 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:15.039 of all kinds of candy stores know each other any little part of us and 204 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.559 that is now being seen as knowing our data. Well, this has become 205 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.039 more complicated. But Ricardo knows that I say it as a joke, but 206 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.920 since I am relatively aware that I can be heard. Yeah, normal and 207 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.960 yes, I was talking to my brother. He doesn' t always talk 208 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.920 to the brothers. Yeah, it wouldn' t be any kind of imagination. 209 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.839 But then, I think he said sea will now publish this. This 210 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:45.000 rudeness. This is me Whatsapp, because of course one with friends, even 211 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:52.079 humor is blacker than normal. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I did 212 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.480 more barbarity, it' s more politically incorrect. Where someone will grab one 213 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.640 ' s whatsapp is death. I think it' s and then it' 214 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.720 s his turn to get out of context. Yeah, he was telling me 215 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.599 extra this was private and already when I didn' t or they took me 216 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:14.160 out of context because everything already hated me. I don' t know that 217 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:15.960 ' s the measure of that phrase. She' s the oldest. There 218 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:23.640 are not the last two triumphs in their destiny totally behaved. Yeah, that 219 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:37.680 ' s how it is It' s very common to be powerful I' 220 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.960 ll be insecure. That has always surprised me that the arrival in a Presidency 221 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:47.720 of the Republic not of relief to a personality does not make him feel already 222 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:55.759 cured of frights, as it is said, but that it makes him obsessive, 223 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:59.279 so the others think that no longer that it is not what the office 224 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:07.880 of such an important position, does not free him from living aware that they 225 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.599 are saying each other. That' s always impressed me. I' ve 226 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:18.920 seen it in people who are also very famous, because I' ve known 227 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.960 how they don' t care about fame, but the critic who says they 228 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.759 ' re terrible. How there is a point, a heel of achilles in 229 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:32.519 power and fame, which is so impressive and is what explains now we talked 230 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.359 about before we started the film of the lives of others, which explains why 231 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:44.000 those Presidencies are so obsessed with seeing what critics are saying, how he gets 232 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.599 to hear them, saying this guy is gross or this guy is corrupt. 233 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.279 I find that obsession impressive. I think it' s very interesting. What 234 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.400 Ricardo says had not thought so much about it, but although I think it 235 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.319 is an idea that is also in fiction, It is everywhere and would be 236 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.440 expected by a President with the tasks that he has that he exercised was like 237 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.960 a total statesman. At the end of the day, each decision has a 238 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:15.279 lot to do with the general well- being and that those greater responsibilities would 239 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.160 keep him away from the small human heart that we all have. The human 240 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.640 heart has a vulgar side, of course, but it seems to be quite 241 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.359 the opposite. Yeah, he, uh, pushes him more into that and 242 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:33.160 pushes him more into those microdes. That attention of the phrase said there. 243 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:40.759 I see this is very sensitive, for example, to sarcastic criticism, to 244 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:45.640 the c bothers, to the mockery, to the joke. And this book 245 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:51.359 is that it' s about that not how the joke interferes with his power 246 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.720 and he replies many times saying they mocked, but they mocked, but if 247 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:04.920 it always starts that way it' s very impressive in someone like him, 248 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:11.000 who comes where he gets and gets it many people and applauds him and admires 249 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.039 him and thanks him that with what he stays in the world is with someone 250 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:22.559 in a little window, in a country of fifty million people that says this 251 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.000 guy doesn' t know how to write that it should hurt more deeply, 252 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.400 because I think he has a lot of faith in his intellect, but I 253 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.079 think he said over there that it' s more oral than written to and 254 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:42.559 already recognized. It is yes, recognized here and has persisted in the coma 255 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.279 between subject and preached. Yeah, he' s famous. As apretrists, 256 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:52.680 he has identified by our common friend, also Carolina Song, he has insisted 257 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.799 totally Yes, there, yes. You can' t back off the Petrina 258 00:23:55.799 --> 00:24:03.079 committee. No, and the good thing. This week, the tweet to 259 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:11.039 magistrate Ibáñez who, to return to the subject of the blunders, feels that 260 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.680 he is being hacked, as hep has also said all the courts do feel 261 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.960 that there is something there. Okay. This message that the President sends to 262 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:26.599 the magistrate of Ibáñez first calls him naive, half- foolish, because he 263 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.000 feels one who is telling him. He' s saying that he gave the 264 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.319 order, that is, that it' s impossible for him to pass the 265 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.720 chusadas thing. But it' s also written in such a confusing way. 266 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:42.079 Whatsapp becomes Whartsapp, which I think is a typo error. I don' 267 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:47.160 t think petro thinks that' s what that' s called. But it 268 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:53.160 also ends in those slips that seem to me to have everything to do with 269 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.640 the ignorance that it is to call Nazis those who may be churning, that 270 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.680 is, how one goes out there and how, besides, in his imagination 271 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:10.680 as a young left- wing, as a young left- wing 70- 272 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.720 year- old, the only ones who can churn are the Nazis, that 273 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.799 is, a fascist right, and not, for example, and we already 274 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:19.440 talked about it, those who purge are talin the lives of others. The 275 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:27.480 film is about the GDR, because Cuba, in the background, is its 276 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:32.440 police dictate. Yeah, I don' t suppose that from that head, 277 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:36.920 that wouldn' t be called pimping, but preventing or something like that when 278 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.960 you' re already into that story. I was thinking now, Richard, 279 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:42.640 that even when you' re a civil servant, you' ve touched me. 280 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.279 There are some meetings once a week, twice a week where they present 281 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:52.480 you to a social media report. You know what it' s called, 282 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:59.599 you don' t hear God listen then and that' s already normalized. 283 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:04.000 Be part of a report that is surely for all public officials at all levels, 284 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:08.519 where there is a more or less comprehensive analysis of what is being said, 285 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:15.920 what is being said. And there is first a general average issue, 286 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:21.119 but then there are certain influential personalities called today or they can be opinion leaders 287 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:27.119 or whatever it was and opinions appear. Complicated, not complicated. I believe 288 00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:34.039 that forty years ago, fifty years before this observer we put him to sleep 289 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:38.000 in the year ninety- two. We are awakening him now so that with 290 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.799 his new eyes, he will tell us some of the strangeness of this world 291 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:47.960 that we live now and that we have normalized at that time, because there 292 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.599 was a letter to the editor of time, there were columns, there was 293 00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.119 an editorial and that was listening. He was very much associated with that, 294 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:57.160 not with what one could read in two or three newspapers and with circulating letters. 295 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.920 There was an opinion out of everything. It' s not true of 296 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.160 robe in the clearing, but it wasn' t this. It wasn' 297 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.839 t upsetting. It is that today, even when you write columns or novels 298 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:17.279 or whatever, you have too much awareness of what people think about what you 299 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:23.839 did. Me. That' s why I avoid reading column forums, because 300 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:30.240 it' s what I can do with what people think? Not much, 301 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.960 and that was thinking of someone who rules, that is, whether the opinion 302 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.440 is against it or if he listens to it. Network' s weekly report 303 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:47.680 tells one that they' re not getting it or that they don' t 304 00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:52.279 agree with one. One changes or how it serves one' s purpose. 305 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.640 I used to read them to you when I wasn' t much. When 306 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.920 I wrote columns, they' d only be for one thing, for brand. 307 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:04.119 One' s love is going to mark one' s life, because 308 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:10.480 first there' s an adverse selection, of course, or there' s 309 00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:11.920 some very barrack lizards or there' s some critics who probably didn' t 310 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.079 give them Columbia. They went on to insult quickly and the truth is that 311 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.279 it damages communication. It is one knows that there are some people who are 312 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:23.440 saying that you are an idiot and you find them later, because that communication 313 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:29.319 is no longer going to be given. I' ve been reading about what 314 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.440 I find interesting about that topic. Nonviolent communication, that' s a whole 315 00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:38.799 gringo study. At this moment I miss the name, but the guy also 316 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:45.000 called it compassionate communication, which is a communication that should be necessary, for 317 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:53.079 example, in politics. And so what the type of communication proposes is a 318 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.279 communication that is quite the opposite of what I see, for example, in 319 00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:02.799 the Government, which is a communication that does not depart from punishment, that 320 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:07.039 is not to dominate, that is, that it is not against others, 321 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:14.119 that does not start against others, that does not seem revenge, that is 322 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:18.839 willing to listen to a number of things that just make communication possible, because 323 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:26.039 if you start telling people, they mocked. But that' s the end 324 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:33.920 of communication, because it starts by assaulting, by ignoring, by beginning on 325 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.680 guard. And a communication that starts on guard is no longer going to be 326 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.880 given yficile practice. I have to say if the interaction of social networks and 327 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.559 so on. But thinking rich in this conversation, as we started and as 328 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:52.920 it has gone spontaneously speaking and returning to this image of the President in pajamo 329 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:59.440 going the cassettes, there are ones that do not put on pajamas. To 330 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:04.359 say it and they have said it, gives me the impression that this image 331 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.759 is an image not only of power. Today, everyone, yes, everyone, 332 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:21.839 can find opinions from others. We can' t fall into that chuzar 333 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:25.519 ' s psychology. Very easily, not all the challenge to obsess over everything 334 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:30.079 that is being said here and there and to have our own little bodegies and 335 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:34.240 our own bubbles that we have to corner. We can be a small government 336 00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:41.319 with its own means. Everyone can become that. Becoming like a new swarm 337 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:47.759 is that great little brother, little brother who notices that child. He did 338 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.279 say I' m not half- day type. This other one doesn' 339 00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:55.160 t know that that' s like the conclusion that came out of this conversation. 340 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:57.880 Yeah, yeah, she' s hot. We' re all great 341 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:00.920 little brothers in this world. We' re at least days, brother. 342 00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:07.160 I understand that way. The same could be said for third- round listeners. 343 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:12.000 Hug everyone. Thank you, Ricardo, a hug. It' s 344 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:17.119 not clear that we can all write. It is clear that we can all, 345 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.640 with luck and vocation, devote ourselves to the profession of writing. But 346 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:27.119 lately I think we can' t just write, we should write. Writing 347 00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:33.920 is the best therapy we have at hand. Welcome to a fictional audio course 348 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:41.359 on how and why to write. Take the audiocourse of fictional writing in the 349 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:49.519 locutorio com slash fictionario with Ricardo Silva Romero. Always pick a good time. 350 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:56.599 Always choose a good conversation. Third lap podcast. Subscribe now and listen to 351 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.519 it every week on your favorite platform a podcast produced by the speaker. The 352 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:08.319 newsroom follows us as it throws the newsroom ds on social networks