So hello, welcome back to the nonprofits. So North Carolina Mega Church exits
Southern Baptist Convention after expulsions over a woman pastors. So this article comes from
AP News and is written by Peter Smith on Just at the end of June
in twenty twenty three. Oh, it's a misogyny article. It's my favorite,
yea, just because the Southern Baptist Convension and the Elevation Mega Church got
into a beef and I love some inter religion drama. You know. It's
it's kind of like a really bad soap opera. So I'm kind of digging
it. So I know that my fellow panelists have opinions of it. Sokara,
do you want to talk about what's going on in the beef that happened?
Oh? Boy, I would love to. I have been following this
with I shouldn't say glee. I think schadenfreude is the term. My background
is in the Southern Baptist Church and other evangelical varieties of denominations, so I
remember learning the ideas that are being argued here, which is well misogyny.
We were constantly told women are to be silent in the church. Women are
not to teach men. I do remember learning that women could be children's pastors,
which apparently now is up for dispute, because what's happening now is that
the Southern Baptist Convention has decided to eject, or in some cases, I
guess, receive the resignation or you know, whatever you call it, of
churches in their in their convention who have female pastors. And this has been
determined by the Southern Baptist Convention to be in violation of their scriptural beliefs because
women are not to be teachers of men or to speak in church. I
don't think they're actually literal really saying that women can't speak during the church service,
but they seem to be interpreting that to mean that women are not allowed
to be ministers of any kind. And what was interesting to me was to
find out how many Southern Baptist churches actually did have female ministers, because I
didn't know that there were any. I guess I haven't been paying attention,
but there were several, and some of them were megachurches, which are accounting
for something like I can't remember the number. I read it in an article
in the Times earlier this week that combined, the churches that have been forced
out over this which had female pastors in some capacity made up something like two
percent or five percent. It was a small percentage, but it was a
noticeable percentage of the income to the Southern Baptist Convention. And this is just
a handful of churches, so they were significant, large churches that are leaving
now, and I just cannot wait to see what happens next. Over to
Kelly, what do you have on this? Yeah, it will be interesting
to see where this goes. And I know this has been happening happening for
a while. Already five churches have already been expelled by the SBC for female
ministers, so it is a pretty interesting topic to me as well. Kara.
I'm really interested to see where it is going to go. I might
be wrong about this, and you said you follow it. Has this been
going on with one of the Methodist sign nots too? I believe I might
be wrong on that, but I thought I remember reading that before in the
past. I could be wrong, though, but I go ahead. I
think there was a thing with the Methodist Church recently that I remember that had
to do with their acceptance of queer ministers. Oh that might be what it
was, and they see that sometimes both my brain cells get stuck together.
So there you go. But I thought I did thought this was a really
interesting thing. It is biblical. I mean, let's face it, women
are supposed to stay quiet in church. I mean, that's what it says.
But the fact that this has been going on for a while, and
ESPC itself has been in membership the client for the last two decades, you
would think that they would realize that they're doing something wrong. And when they
look around all the churches around them who are accepting female ministers, maybe you
might think that somewhere in the back of their heads they might think that this
might be one of the things that we're doing wrong and we need to change.
But it doesn't seem too It doesn't seem like it's registering their heads at
all. Tayo, you want to add to this, Well, I don't
really know about the thing that you are talking about. I mean the history
of other churches doing this, But I do have to mention that I only
see Christians being Christians and quotation mark good Christians. Please let me explain this.
So I always say that Christians and Muslims are terrible Christian and Muslims because
I am still alive despite the fact that I work on Saturdays, I e.
Shreve, I wear different fabrics. So I'm really glad that they don't
follow their books because I like living, and I'm sure that other nonbelievers also
like. For people who have no idea what I'm talking about, go and
read the autonomy in the Bible. The autonomy is seventeen to five those who
worship other gods should be brought before the judges and put to death. Twenty
two twenty anyone who sacrifices to other gods shall be destroyed. Let it goes
twenty four to sixteen. Anyone foodless films the name of gods shall be put
to death. So three articles that say I should not be alive. And
if you go to the Quran, Suran all by Ynac nineteen eighty six says
that those who were who disbelieved the prophet, they are the words of creatures.
I'm not going to mention what is mentioned there, but you know we
are going to be sent to hell obviously. And Surah al Kumar fifty four
and fifty one to fifty five the passage describes past nations that you reacted the
prophets and persisted in disbelief, so they were totally destroyed. And I'm glad
that people don't follow those things. So see now it's very weird for me
that I see Christians trying to be quotation are good Christian following the Bible,
Following First Corinthians for fourteen thirty four thirty five, women should remain silent in
the churches. They are not allowed to speak, must be in submission as
the losses. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their
husbands at home, for it's a disgraceful for a woman to speak in the
church. Or first Timothy to a two eleven and twelve, a woman should
learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach
or to assume authority over a man. She must be quiet. I know
guys that as a Jew, I should I don't have celebrate this, but
you know, kind of be happy that, Oh yeah, women cannot teach
me anything. But no, that's actually the reason, one of the many
reasons why I'm against the Bible being used as a source of morality. Against
the Bible as being used as a way of teaching people's stuff because it has
this immoral, absurd silly things. And sorry, but most women that I
know, they can teach me a lot, and I'm glad that I can
hear from them once again. I just think Christians being Christians and Christians who
actually followed the Bible in this way are the reason why I speak so much
against the harms of religion, because following the Bible as they are doing is
extremely harmful for them, for everybody around and for our whole society. So
yeah, so I'd like to give a little bit more contact for our audience
of what exactly is going on. So the Southern Baptist Convention was all kind
of but her because they were given religious authority within the Elevation Megachurch in North
Carolina, and i'd let to chaos. Yes, I tell you, there
could be Yeah, there could be some possible deniability on the Southern Baptist Convention
Center as the Southern Baptist Convention as you go through the article. But it's
kind of pretty clear exactly what happened. Now I'm going to point out they
didn't correctly say that there was It was not that no that was reason.
But Pastor Stephen Frederick's wife, Holly Frederick, has given sermons to the congregation
and has these sermons linked on their website. Now we know membership has been
declining and which may not be completely clear. It could be post pandemic numbers,
um, it could be that people are siding with the SBC. But
my conspiracy people is that people are becoming less religious and misogyny. It's kind
of gross in the modern world, and even Christians and other believers are not
agreeing with as a rhetoric anymore. And women are taking leadership roles in the
church. You know, I wish they weren't doing it in a church,
but I'm like, oh, progress more leadership. Sure, yeah, okay,
so but you have to be on the authority of a man. I
have a feeling they have to get their sermons approved by the head. You
know. I'm just saying so, you know, I have a problem with
anybody having to wait around to speak. I have a problem with people having
wait around to lead, you know, no matter who you are. And
the fact that the SBC was like, yeah, no, we don't,
We're not digging this and actually pulled out because Henry Footwick wanted his wife to
preach. So I just have a lot of problems with that. I do
think it's great that the Elevation Church are sticking to their guns and are not
cow tailing to the SBC. But at the same time, why would you
want the approval of anyone that has this old, antiquated, misogynists view,
just saying, you know, why would you want to do that? So
but I do love the drama. It's it's very yummy. It's very very
yummy. So Carra, do you have anything else to say? Because you
grew up in these circles? So oh, I do. Yes, I
have been following this and I just want to remind everyone too that the SPC
has a history of taking the worst possible position on social issues and then digging
in based on these, you know, cherry picked verses that they say they're
using to literally interpret the Bible, and of course, you know, they're
picking out certain verses that always seem to affect marginalized or disadvantaged groups. You
know. Let's recall how the Southern Baptist Convention was formed in eighteen forty five
as a separate convention from those Northern Baptists. Because, surprise, surprise,
the Southern slaveholding Baptists wanted to continue being pro slavery and continued to advocate for
racist policies, and well into the twentieth century, we're advocating for things like
segregation and rejecting interracial dating and relationships. And this has been a constant thing
with them. They did get around to condemning whites premisey in twenty seventeen,
so you know, wow, wow, never progress. Yeah, And and
they're they're coming out with these things that they, you know, are saying.
I think some of the leaders in this current debate we're saying, well,
we're we're trying to right the ship. It's been veering too far into
the liberal realm in terms of you know, sexuality and gender and politics and
everything. And I'm like, really, that seems too far women speaking,
was too far into the liberal realm for you. Okay, wow, but
you know, let's recall this is again not for them for God, oh
right, right, it's it's it's about God. Yes, God is God
is the hemisogynist. By the way, everybody, I'm sorry, I didn't
mean to throw well, no, you're right, yes, that is that
is the narrative, it's you know, hey, we didn't make this up.
This is what God says. And then from that we end up with
things like, you know, the Billy Graham rule, which was kind of
made famous recently by Mike Pence when he was saying that, you know,
he doesn't ever dine alone with women, and that kicked off this whole debate
about we'll hold on a minute. That means you're basically preventing women from being
able to move up in organizations. You're treating women like they're some kind of
sexual object that you have to keep at arm's length and doesn't belong in the
public sphere. And yes, that is the point of that rule. Apparently
that is the idea here. Women are not intended to be succeeding at anything,
or preaching or teaching or really doing anything outside of the home. And
that's what's being intended here by this sort of argument that's going on. You
know, let's not pretend this is just about, oh, we're doing what
God wants. This is again further marginalizing a group of people who has already
been excluded from a lot. So here we go again, and I can't
wait to see the continue to Exodus. So over to you, Kelly Heyo,
thanks for backing me up that this was all big book biblical, all
those Bible quotes there. That was awesome. You did a lot more homework
than I did, and I appreciate. Don't worry. Oh sure, I
was wondering, Um, is this like a tipping point with the SPC?
Is this is this gonna Is this finally gonna make them wake up and change
this policy? Are they gonna stick with this because obviously this is what God
wants? And do you think it might have any repercussions in any other denominations?
You think that this kind of movement is going to follow through into the
other pretty far far what's the word I'm looking for. I want to say
far right, but yeah, far right evangelical type denominations, Matteo, What
you know hit us with some of those more those Bible quotes or answering those
questions? Either want I'll give you a passion either. I'm going to do
both because I like doing both, doing lots of stuff. But I wish,
I wish I could say, yeah, I know people will realize how
missurging is they are being, how disgusting their behavior is, and they will
realize that this is part of the Bible, and they will start leaving their
faith, their awful faith and all that. But sadly, the last years
I have seen that people kind of as soon as they start struggling, they
reinforce their belief and they come back with more strength to these and it's sad.
It's quite sad. And what you said about, yeah, women should
be only at home and being and you're not attending their husbands. Let's go
with Esfecians five twenty twenty four. Wives submit yourselves to your husbands as you
do to the Lord, for the husband is the head of their wife.
Teachers two three to five. Likewise, teach the older women to be reverending
in the way they live, not to be slenders, are addicted too much
wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can urge younger women
to love their husbands and children, to be self controlled and pure, to
be be easy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to
their husbands. So sadly, this thing about women being just objects that are
supposed to stay home and be slaves for children, and you know, attending
them and not having their own successful paths it's biblical. It's sad, and
I'm afraid that those people who cannot accept that women are equal to them are
going to see this and they will say, yeah, the Bible says it
on This church understands what I feel. You know, there are some insts
out there who I'm pretty sure will be very happy to read those articles and
they would say, you see, you see women, why don't you want
to have sex with me? You should do it because the Bible and you
should be submissive to me, So we all should follow the Bible. And
they would try to impose this religion to others, and that scares me.
It's pretty scary. I have said it before and I will repeat it.
The USA scares me more and more every day. I don't know what you
want to say about this heaven well, I think alan as more. She
wants to say, she's all fired up, let's get misogyny, and it
drives me crazy. So um, but I will give some a little bit
of advice that m all you women's, all you street women's out there,
Um, get a husband that's lazy and doesn't want to have any control over
you. And it's basically like I got enough crap to do, so,
um that because you know it's it's going to serve both of you a lot
better. So you know, there's a there's a little advice from a very
woman. Anyway. UM, I'm really kind of curious where this is going
to go in the political room. Um, I was writing over your nose,
Teo, and you mentioned you know, Trump's pastor and other leaders within
you know, these Baptist Methodists, you know, um, non denominational churches
that have influence and we have associations with like the SBC, and they you
know, funnel money into government projects and elections and all types of stuff.
How does this look for them? You know, where is this going to
cause, like, you know, a little bit of more drama and more
issues in the long term for them because there are super religious women you know
that are of influence and if the misogyny going a misogyny, you know,
how's that gonna look? And I'm very curious of where this is all going
to go because the SPC, you know, they think they're big and bad,
but they don't have the influences they think they do anymore, you know,
and they're holding on to really bad ideas and even though it seems like
we're always taking a couple steps back. The majority of the populace, even
believers, aren't digging this anymore. So I am curious or where this is
going to go on the financial, political, social realm, you know.
I'm I'm, I'm a curious little bee and I want to see where this
goes. Kelly, do you have one more thing you want to say?
Orka somebody somebody talk? Well, um, I thought this was a great
conversation. I don't have really much more to add to it myself, So
I just want to thank everybody for watching and listening, and if you want
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