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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is that triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the Randal Schampars incident that doesn't

3
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involve aliens at all. It was
completely silent. It comes right over our

4
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heads. It's so a classic fly
Sorcer really standing into Cleary. He turned

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over to my father and held his
hand, and he looked in his eyes

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00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:27,920
and he said, We're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live

7
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,960
show. We're live every Wednesday at
eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark

8
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:39,439
Matter Radio Network. Please remember to
visit the website podcastufo dot com for past

9
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,359
episodes, blogs and forums. During
the show, feel free to participate live

10
00:00:44,439 --> 00:00:48,399
in our chat room, and don't
forget to like us on our very active

11
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,840
Facebook page. Hello, and welcome
to the show. This is Martin willis

12
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,320
your host, and we're doing this
whole show live. We're just starting this

13
00:00:56,799 --> 00:01:02,079
new situation where I'm making Alejandro Rojas
will be coming right up on making him

14
00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:06,280
stay late at work so we can
do the whole show live. And I

15
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,120
want to thank everyone for helping out
with the show and supporting the show,

16
00:01:10,239 --> 00:01:12,400
and if you'd like to listen to
the second hour of the show. It

17
00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:18,519
only takes a dollar a month or
more. All that information is on podcastufo

18
00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:22,879
dot com right on the sidebar,
and we have a live chat room going

19
00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,439
right now on podcastufo dot com right
on the main page. Takes two clicks

20
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,000
to get in there. You can
ask our guests a question later on,

21
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:36,640
and that guest is Peter Davenport from
Newfork. He'll be on for both hour

22
00:01:36,719 --> 00:01:41,920
one and hour two, so get
some questions ready for him. He was

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one of the first people on the
incident Exeter case back in I think it

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was nineteen sixty five, and that's
local to me. And he also has

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done a bunch of different things.
I think he had a sighting early on

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to back in the fifties in his
youth, and great guy. I'm really

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looking forward to that. And that's
enough for me. Alejandro, how are

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you? I am good? How
are you? I am great? In

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the great state of Maine, And
we were just talking about traffic jams in

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Arizona and there's hardly even roads here, so really, well, that's I

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don't know if that's good or bad. That's probably bad. Hon. They

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get all clogged up I'm assuming,
well it's good for the moose, but

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yeah, it's right a moose.
You got to be creative, think outside

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of the box. Well, you
know, I'll lose for transportation. Tourism

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here is getting heavier and heavier every
year. So when we get anything like

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you know, July fourth weekend coming
right up, boy does I ninety five

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goes right up the state of Maine
and it is clogged all over really yeah,

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from it goes way down into New
Hampshire because there's tolls. You know,

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they have to go through tolls and
stop with a toll, and that

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clogs everybody up. So it's always
a paint. So I like being up

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in the mountain away from everybody.
And well, I think that gives me

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an excuse to plug something. And
since his is live, you can't stop

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00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,879
me. Where's the mute? But
Roswell. I'm gonna be in Roswell this

44
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weekend, So that's exciting, right, UFO related, it's going to be

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like my eighth year or something going
out there. I did miss one year,

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but it's always a lot of fun
and they have the most amazing fireworks

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display. There's a fireworks company out
there, so it's like forty five minutes,

48
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and you think the whole thing is
the finale because they're just tons and

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tons. I think they just blow
up all their extra ones out there.

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It's incredible. You would not imagine
it in this little town in the middle

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of nowhere in New Mexico. But
of course it'll be fun and I will

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be seeing Tom and Don there and
hearing what they have to say. Of

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course they are in the limelight.
They are quite notorious at this moment because

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of the roswell slides stuff. Yeah, the lingering and lingering. Yep,

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see how long it lingers. But
yeah, I promised I wouldn't talk about

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that. So what's going on with
the news, the news? It's too

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late. You already did talk about
it, but I should mention I not

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much about it. But today is
Canadian Day. Canada Day, yay.

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So we do have a story up
written by a Canadian Chris Drewtowski, and

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he runs a site up there where
they do a lot of really good work

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on following sightings. And he wrote
this story about the top ten strangest Canadian

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UFO reports, and he based it
off of UFO researchers investigators out He pulled

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so that's kind of fun. It's
a Canadian day story that's up there,

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and I kind of sprung that on
you, so you probably don't have the

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link up yet, but it's not
there. You hoser. Oh, I'm

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a hoser. You know. I've
been refraining from saying a and hoser,

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even though it's a lot of fun, and before the show started we were

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doing quite a bit of it.
It's I just started thinking, if it's

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Canada, dahn't, we'd be selling
brading them and not making fun of them,

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that is, celebrating them. Yeah, it's okay. It'd be awesome

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to be able to talk like that. You will you convinced me a yeah?

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Closer? All right. So otherwise, though, speaking of other news

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in other countries, we've posted a
story and this was given to us by

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Andres Mueller. He has a fourteen
kind of website, Frontier Science. He

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calls that website in Germany. That's
very popular and he'll send us stories once

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in a while, and this is
a really interesting one. So the Federal

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Administrative Supreme Court of Germany has forced
the essentially the German government to release this

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UFO file. I guess they haven't
done it yet. But there's a scientific

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organization that did a report on UFOs
and the German government has not wanted to

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release this even though people know what
exists. It was created by their Scientifical

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Service is what they call it.
And I guess it has to do with

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Germany and the UN resolution to release
UFO information. But it's been kind of

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a long thought battled for UFO researchers
to see this paper, and soon they

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will because it had to go all
the way up to the Supreme Court of

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Germany to release this document. So
it's a really interesting file or a story

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and that should be coming out soon. And as far as that UN resolution,

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it actually got watered down. It
was a UN I can't remember the

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exact word, but something like UN
suggestion it came out to be. But

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if people aren't aware. In the
nineteen seventy Sir Eric Gary of Grenada had

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got really into UFOs. He said
he had a siding and he went to

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the UN as a UN country delegate
and said we need to release information on

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UFOs and share information and create a
department at the UN then investigates UFOs.

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It got stalled for a year.
This was I think seventy six to seventy

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seven and seventy eight, and finally
it came out as kind of this UN

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I can't remember the word, but
it is like a suggestion or something like

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that, which just means that it
got watered down to the point. But

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it did get voted on and passed
on the records where all of the UN

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countries were to share their UFO information
with the UN and then they would all

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share it amongst each other in these
countries and never came out to fruition.

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We've had some interesting stories come out, and Lise Spiegel has written about this

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because lie Spiegel actually organized, yeah, he was involved. He organized a

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presentation at the UoN for this thing. And we have found out later on

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that the UK government especially was really
against the whole thing and in the background

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was a lot against it. So
really interesting story. And I guess this

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German paper is about their implementation of
this UN resolution, so it ought to

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be interesting to see. But pretty
cool, pretty cool news there. Did

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you get an idea of exactly when
that will be released? No, the

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story doesn't really go into when it
may be released, just that just recently

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the ruling had come down. I
see, Okay, However, Andres Mueller

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did get other UFO files recently released, and we have a link to that

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story, and that's another story he
had given us in the past as well.

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So of course we don't speak German, so we got to or rely

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on some of the points that he
made in those files. But there's some

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stuff that's somewhat interesting. It's kind
of like the WikiLeaks UFO stuff that came

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out. It wasn't really exciting our
groundbreaking, but it was interesting, kind

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of staff nines, but I can
see it. Dritch. Yeah that's German,

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isn't it. Yeah? Yeah,
wow, you are. You have

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latent talents that come out periodically,
and you're just more like a person like

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Blatant I think is more like Hey, before we go on to the next

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show, I just want to announce
our listeners that Art Bell is coming back

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on this network and it's coming up. I think I want to get this

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wrong. I think it's July twentieth, and you can actually go to the

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Dark Matter Radio or dark Matter Digital. I'm sorry, media network. It

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has changed, the r L has
changed, and you can find where you

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can support our art for as little
as like five dollars a month. For

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00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,000
a subscription listen to all these shows. You know, these shows are five

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days a week. So I am
just I'm looking at a message I think

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from the producer of the show right
here, so dark Matter Digitalnetwork dot com.

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There it is, thank you,
Keith, dark Matter Digital. I

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just do that. That's where you
want to go and you can sport art.

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It's midnight in the desert. You
can see the link right there.

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And I'm really excited about that.
But we can go ahead and move on

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with the news if you like.
Yeah, I'm super excited too. And

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what's funny is we wrote a story
on that and we included some of these

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fan trailers that are popping up on
YouTube, and ever since then, I've

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gotten at least two or three other
messages from people that have said, oh,

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00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,759
you know, I created a fan
trailer, check it out. And

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00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,759
at least one of them I posted
on my Facebook and the guy was really

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cool. He's like, oh,
thank you, and it was a great

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trailer. But there's all these fantrailers
for our fellows show coming up popping up

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on YouTube, which is pretty cool. Everybody's really excited about it. I

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am as well. Yeah, and
I think he'll really like, you know,

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staring his own boat, being in
charge of the digital in charge of

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the media. He's on or you
know, of course with Keith's help,

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but he'll be in charge and so
there won't be any of the typical bs

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that's happened to him in the past. So yeah, it's really exciting,

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very exciting. Speaking of exciting,
it's the next exciting finding that I want

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00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,080
to share with everybody, which has
to do with Bob Blazar. So many

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of you probably know. Of course, Bob Blazaar is the alleged whistleblower who

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came out and said I worked at
Area fifty one or specifically at this S

151
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four facility near Area fifty one,
but he kind of flewent Area fifty one

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and was bus there and he says
he back engineered alien technology. Well,

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he says that he also worked at
Los Alamos, which is another secret kind

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of a place where secret projects are
worked on, and he says he has

155
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degrees from Caltech and MIT. Well, none of the could be confirmed.

156
00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:05,360
There's no teachers that have come or
no students, you know, colleagues of

157
00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:07,840
his that said, oh yeah,
I went to school with him. Nor

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has there been anybody to come forward
and say yeah, I worked with him

159
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at Los Alamos. Now George Knapp, who is an investigative journalist. He's

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won something like a numerous Emmy Awards, and this guy is a real deal.

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George Knapp, I'm a huge fan
of his. If he says it,

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it's real integrity and journalistic integrity is
a big deal to him. I

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believe what he has to say.
And he says he has spoken with people

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that work with Lozare at Los Alamos, but they don't want to come forward

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because they're afraid of getting in trouble. Well, Jeremy Corbel, who you've

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had on the show, who's done
some documentaries, including on Bob Blazaar,

167
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he debated and he's had this online
debate going on with Stanton Friedman. But

168
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he just recently released just this week
and that when he's on Coast to Coast

169
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am with George Knapp, that he
found a physicist who worked at Los Alamos

170
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with Bob Blazar and this guy has
been willing to come forward. In fact,

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I wrote a story about it and
he shared with me this link that

172
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talks about this guy. He's doctor
Robert Krangle and he is a physicist.

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You know, he's an impressive person. That's why this magazine had done this

174
00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:28,039
story on him and some of his
work. But this guy has come forward

175
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and said that, yeah, I
worked with Bob Blazaar. He says,

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I know Bob Blazar was a physicist
with a security clearance at Los Alamos.

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One of the reasons he knows this
is he was in security meetings with Bob

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Blazar and these, I guess are
kind of routine meetings where people are told

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now, remember you're working on secret
projects, so don't tell anybody about it.

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Apparently Bob Blazar was asleep at the
meetings because he did go out and

181
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:56,799
tell people about it. But he
also says, you know, he just

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knew from being around there that Bob
Blazar was a physicist. So it doesn't

183
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,039
prove that Bob Blazar was working on
alien technology. But what it does demonstrate

184
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:15,200
is that he was a technician and
arguably a scientist at Los Alamos. Well,

185
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at least it helps bolster that claim. And so the question is why

186
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:26,519
has Los Alamos been denying that Bob
Blazar worked at Los Alamos. If he

187
00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:33,200
actually did so, it's just more
mystery. It could be proving that Bob

188
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,120
Blazar isn't lying at least in that
you know, Los Alamos is trying to

189
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:43,360
erase his existence or working with them
there, which is awfully mysterious. And

190
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George Knapp makes another point, a
couple of points that if we could prove

191
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:52,080
he worked at Los Alamos, who
cares about his college his degrees because Napp

192
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,039
has not been able to confirm that
he has these degrees that he claims to

193
00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,320
have, and that if he was
a technician at Los Alamos, which is

194
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,480
an important place, then it's possible
he did work at Area fifty one.

195
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,080
Yeah, I'm still I got to
tell you, I'm going to get some

196
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,720
people mad at me and maybe even
for you a little bit, but I'm

197
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,720
still totally on the fence about Bob
Blazar. Now Matt's going to get really

198
00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:20,240
mad at me in the message board. And here's the thing. You know,

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00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:24,559
my brother in law was a chemist
at Los Almost for many years,

200
00:15:24,559 --> 00:15:28,320
and you know there was it's you
know, I had a conversation with him.

201
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,080
He says. You know, there's
nine to thirteen thousand people working there

202
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:39,399
at any given time, including about
six to eight hundred subcontractors that are working

203
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,799
there. There's hundreds and hundreds of
buildings. And he said, you know,

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for him to remember someone that he
met that was not close friends with

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back in the nineteen eighties is basically, you know, I want to say,

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almost impossible. Like what would make
Bob Blazaar stand out? He said,

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if he was famous, he was
well known or you know, famous

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in his field or something like that, yes, of course you remember him.

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But if he was not a standout
person, it would be really difficult

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to you know, to remember him. And how did this come up?

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How did he all of a sudden
say, oh, yeah, I knew

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Bob Bazaar. And I know that
some of it had to do with supposedly

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a friend had given him a tape. But one of the things my brother

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in law said was simply ask Bob
Blazar what division and group he was in

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and just leave it at that.
Don't give him any hints, just ask

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him that question. But anyway,
how dare you not believe all of this?

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First, you don't believe in the
roswell slides nowadays? No, I

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agree with you. I'm a fence
sitter on this thing too, Although I

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did totally disagree with that argument.
I think that's kind of silly. I

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know people I worked with or I
went to school with in nineteen eighty I

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can easily remember. Of course,
I'm not going to remember every kid at

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my school, but I'm going to
remember a few people. So there's got

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to be people out there, like
doctor Krangele who remember Bob Blazar if he

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really worked out there. So I
mean that's completely possible. Not only that,

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this is an interesting part of the
story is Jeremy was using bots.

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I don't know where the hell he
got these or how he uses them,

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but there are these bots that go
out to your Facebook. They're looking at

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your Facebook. So he's like the
NSA, but he's grabbing people talking about

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Bob Blazar and he'll go look to
see what they're doing. Anyway, they

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said, this person just said,
my neighbor says he worked with Bob Blazaar.

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So Jeremy got ahold of that guy. Eventually became friends with a neighbor,

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and the neighbor said, yeah,
I really did work with Bob Blazaar.

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So I mean, that's why this
person never came forward before. That

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would make sense. Okay, So
all right, I mean, I'm open

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to the fact that it's possible,
but also it's I want to say,

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closer to improbable than possible. But
you know, if it's if it really,

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if it's really you know, factual, great, it's just it's kind

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of a little bit of a mystery, that's all. Yeah, it's funny.

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Right after I posted this story,
within a minute, John Alexander pounds

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and he's sending me emails. This
is ridiculous. I worked at Los Alamos.

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He wasn't there, So it's kind
of funny. It's certainly a lot

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of minor ten thousand people. How
are you going to tell who's there and

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who's not. You know, well, even if if you work with them,

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though, you wouldn't know if you
know what I'm saying. For John

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Alexandra to say, you know,
he was not, oh exactly, I

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know for examly exactly. And you
know, your point about subcontractors is exactly

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00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:48,720
correct. In fact, doctor Kringle
told Jeremy that most of the employees out

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there are subcontractors now, and I
think we hear this a lot. In

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fact, most of the people that
the federal government hires these days are contractors.

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Uh, the percentage is super high. They've talked about this lately.

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But yeah, you've got You've got
a number of great points there. I

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think, though, I give this
guy the benefit of the doubt just because

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of his really impressive, impressive background, And there's no reason that this person

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should be putting his reputation on the
line for making statements like this. So

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it's entirely possible now. And working
at Los Alamos, it's still a big

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00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:30,799
leap from working on extraterrestrial spacecraft,
that's right, So we're no closer to

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that. And you know, I
mean I listened to the interview, and

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you know, he did sound,
you know, pretty cool and stuff like

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that. But you know, there
are people out there just looking for a

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little fun, a little fame,
sure, you know. So I don't

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know, I'm not one hundred percent
into it. But uh, anyway,

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poor Peter. I told him we'd
be calling him five minutes ago, always

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waiting by the phone. So we
got to go, Alejandro. But it's

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been great. Thanks so much for
doing this live, all right, and

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we will see you later next week, all right, Thank thanks a lot.

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Man yep, National UFO Reporting Center. Good afternoon. Well hello,

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Peter, how are you. It's
Martin from podcast UFO. Welcome to the

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show. Thank you, Martin,
good to be here, looking forward to

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this. I always enjoy talking about
my favorite subject, UFOs. Yes,

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I've always enjoyed your great enthusiasm when
you're giving your UFO reports. It's always

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always a lot of fun. There's
a lot of ground I want to cover,

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and you know, we can talk
about what's going on lately. But

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first of all, you know,
I want to say again, welcome to

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the show. And how did you
get interested in this topic? Peter?

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Yeah, I think I can honestly
say I'm interested in it because in I

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think it was July of nineteen fifty
four, I saw a UFO as a

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young boy with my entire family,
with literally hundreds of other people who saw

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the same thing at a drive in
theater, and I've been captivated by the

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subject ever since. Clearly, something
of immense magnitude and gravity is taking place

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on this planet and most people don't
know about it. Frankly, now that

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I am a scientist much older and
a scientist by training, I consider this

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the field of uphology to be the
most compelling and the most important scientific subject

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that has ever stood before man.
So I'm I'm afraid I'm hooked to it.

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That is quite the statement, and
you know, I have to agree.

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It's funny. I have I have
a son that's always been, you

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00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,200
know, very skeptical of this,
and he enjoys me talking about the show

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00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,960
and you know, guests and things
going on, and he's starting to say

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00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,480
things like, wouldn't it really be
something if this is you know, if

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this is really happening, you know, how exciting would it be be?

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So, you know, it would
make the world a lot less boring.

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I think he said something like that. Boy, that's the truth. If

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00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:52,039
the UFO phenomenon is a real phenomenon, it adds an immense new dimension to

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our understanding of the galaxy and universe
that we live in. And I believe

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it does. I believe we are
dealing with a real phenomenon. I wouldn't

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have spent the last twenty one years
of my life running the National UFO Reporting

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Center if I didn't feel that way. Frankly, yep, yep. Now,

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when you had this siting back in
nineteen fifty four, you said your

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family witnessed it as well, whether
other people involved Hundreds of people at a

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drive in theater on the south side
of the Saint Louis airport, and I

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have written up a description, a
detailed description of what happened, and posted

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00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:37,319
it to our web, the National
UFO Reporting Center website ufocenter dot com,

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and people can read my description of
what happened. And it's not just a

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00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:49,680
question of whether I might have been
making something up, because whenever my family

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got together, my parents and my
older brother and I got together, we

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would talk about it. What did
we see, what did it look like,

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did it do and so on and
so forth, And there must have

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been at least hundreds of people in
that drive in theater that night. It

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00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:14,079
was in July of nineteen fifty four, I believe was the case. I

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remember that because I remember the automobile
that we were sitting in, and we

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had that automobile in nineteen fifty four. So July of nineteen fifty four Lambertfield,

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Sat. Louis Airport was a dramatic
sighting an object as big as a

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00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:38,000
full moon in the night sky,
the color of a traffic red traffic signal.

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And it was initially when I first
saw it, it was hovering motionless

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00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,920
in the night sky. Suddenly,
as I was looking at it, it

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00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:56,319
suddenly accelerated and went right across the
airport. It executed an S shaped turn

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00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:04,039
over the airport disappeared over McDonald Aircraft
Corporation, and that was it the whole

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00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:12,799
sighting, I estimate Martin lasted I
would say perhaps ten seconds at the outside.

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00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:21,000
Wow, it was really quite a
quite a dramatic sighting. H And

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00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,519
interestingly, my father was in the
air traffic control tower at the time on

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00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,920
the other side of the airport,
the north. Back in nineteen fifty four,

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00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,839
the tower was on the north side
of the Saint Louis Airport. Now

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00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:37,839
it's on the south side, but
he was standing in that tower on the

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00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,799
north side of the airport looking at
the object with binoculars, as were the

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00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:48,559
air traffic controllers on duty at the
time. Wow. Amazing did they notice

325
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:52,519
on the radar as well? Don't
know. I was six and a half

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00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,240
years of age at the time,
and if I had been sixty seven instead

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of six, I would have been
asking them those questions. But at six

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00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:10,119
and a half I didn't ask the
questions that a good seasoned investigator should and

329
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,359
would ask. Yeah, of course, I just wondered if later on,

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00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,960
if the subject came up where your
father might have mentioned that or not.

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I don't recall at this time.
Now, were there other sightings that you

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00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,200
say? Was he was he always
in it? Was he an air traffic

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00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:33,640
controller? No, he was an
executive for a major American airline, and

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00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:38,519
we were at the airport that evening
because he had to do some work at

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00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:44,039
his office. And of course back
in the fifties things were much different than

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00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:48,640
they are today. He knew probably
most of the people who worked at the

337
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,519
airport, and so he happened to
go up into the air traffic control tower

338
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:04,160
to visit with his friends who were
air traffic co operators, and they were

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00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,799
just standing up there gabbing, I
presume, when they saw that object on

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00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,519
the south side of the airport.
Wow. Now, one of the things

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00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:18,039
I wanted to talk to you about
tonight was you were involved in incident Exeter

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00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,240
working on that. I might be
jumping too far ahead, because I was

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00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:29,079
back in sixty five, right,
that's correct, September third. It occurred

344
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:37,079
and I was involved in it through
an act of serendipity. I worked for

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00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:41,319
a newspaper in southern New Hampshire at
the time. I lived in East Dairy,

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00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:47,119
New Hampshire. Most people were familiar
with the state Nowhere. Darry,

347
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,920
New Hampshire is popular place for politicians
to go and talk now and I worked

348
00:27:52,920 --> 00:28:00,599
for the Dairy News for about probably
nine or ten months. Somehow Someway,

349
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:06,559
the editor, and I got on
the subject of UFOs and he was an

350
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:15,880
absolute died in the world skeptic.
And in about the first week of September

351
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:22,039
nineteen sixty five, the year I
graduated from high school in Derry, we

352
00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:26,920
had a very dramatic sighting in Exeter. It was covered by the Manchester Union

353
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:32,680
Leader and my editor read that article
and he came to me and he said,

354
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,359
Peter, you're now a cub reporter. I want you to go up

355
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,880
to Exeter, New Hampshire and get
a story for us about this sighting.

356
00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:48,119
So I made several trips up there. I talked to the two police officers

357
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,480
Hunt and Bertrand, who had seen
the object. While they were standing together,

358
00:28:55,559 --> 00:29:00,559
I talked to a hitchhiker, a
young eighteen year old boy who had

359
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:07,440
been chased by a disc out on
a rural highway near Kensington, New Hampshire.

360
00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:12,400
Technically speaking, the siting occurred in
Kensington, not an Exeter. The

361
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:21,240
Exeter Police Force was involved so I
wrote a two part article that was published

362
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:27,880
in mid September nineteen sixty five,
and in the year two thousand actually wrote

363
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:36,200
the piece on the incident for Incident
at Exeter for Ronald D's Story, who

364
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:45,720
edited the UFO Encyclopedia, wrote the
piece about the incident at Exeter was really

365
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:52,480
very interesting, very dramatic, and
that was my second experience with UFOs.

366
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,079
Wow, can we for the listener
out there that's not familiar with that case,

367
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:02,160
I think one of the big well, I think it's probably in the

368
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,079
top twenty or thirty. I would
imagine as time goes on, I don't

369
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:11,480
know how you feel about that,
but yeah, it was pretty dramatic and

370
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,839
a lot of people were involved.
It really started not in the wee hours

371
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:21,960
of the morning when the hitchhiker his
name was Norman Muscarello, as I recall,

372
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,480
was chased by the object that the
incident had started. Apparently about four

373
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:37,319
hours earlier. Officer Bertrand was on
patrol and he came upon what they call

374
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,039
around about a traffic circle up there, and as I remember, there was

375
00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:48,319
a car that was parked in the
center of the traffic circle, which was

376
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:55,519
very unusual. Cars don't go there, it's grass. So he investigated and

377
00:30:55,559 --> 00:31:00,519
he found a woman who was hunkered
down on the floor of the back seat

378
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,960
and her dog, as I remember, was hunkered down on the floor in

379
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:10,799
the front seat, and she was
telling When he approached the car, she

380
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:18,119
started explaining to the officer that she
had been chased by a disc from a

381
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,880
nearby town and in desperation, trying
to get away from it, she pulled

382
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,279
up on the traffic island. Well, he didn't know what to make of

383
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:32,880
that, but she was taken to
the hospital, as I recall, And

384
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,480
later that night, about two or
two thirty in the morning, he heard

385
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:45,759
a call to all units from their
headquarters in Exeter to the effect that a

386
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:52,839
young man had just burst into the
Exeter Police Force office and he was quite

387
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:59,960
excited, quite muddied. Obviously he'd
been in a swamp or a thicket or

388
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:05,000
something like that, which had indeed
been the case, talking about how he

389
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:10,720
had been hitchhiking on a rural road
near Kensington and he had been approached by

390
00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:15,960
a saucer that scared him so badly
he started running. In final desperation,

391
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:22,400
he jumped into a swamp which was
on one side of the road and hunkered

392
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:29,519
down over under some bushes. The
object that had chased him pulled right above

393
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:34,319
him, and it rotated ninety degrees, so it's now pointed the edge of

394
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:37,319
the disc is pointed down at him, and he said it hit its high

395
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:43,920
beams. He said he's never seen
light as bright as that. So I

396
00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:49,079
interviewed all of these people who were
involved, and I was left convinced that

397
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,720
they had experienced something quite real and
to them at the time, quite frightening.

398
00:32:55,759 --> 00:33:01,759
Right, What did you ever think
of the the supposed debunking of a

399
00:33:01,759 --> 00:33:07,039
air plane refueler? Did you ever
hear that one? Oh? I've heard

400
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:15,759
a lot of attempts to debunk it
or claim it wasn't true. But I

401
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:22,039
talked to the witnesses literally days after
they had had their experience, and one

402
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:28,039
of the police officers, Officer Bertrand, had been in the US Air Force,

403
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:37,559
and the notion that he would mistake
refueling aircraft for a UFO is just

404
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:45,720
utter nonsense. So these claims always
come forward, are always presented after a

405
00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:52,440
major event like that has occurred.
I suspect there's a concerted effort on the

406
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:59,000
part of I suspect the government to
discredit the case, and if they can

407
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:02,720
discredit the case, still try to
discredit the people, right, people who

408
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,400
are involved in it. Peter,
We're having just a little bit of sound

409
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,000
issue. I'm wondering if you could
make sure that you're you're right up to

410
00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:13,880
your your phone? You bet?
Is that a little better? That is

411
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:19,039
better? Yes? Okay, Yeah, let's uh now, let's talk about

412
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,840
Newfork. Is that the first?
This is uh? You you actually man,

413
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:28,760
basically most of the work on that, don't you. I'm the only

414
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,400
person here, and I wanted to
say that it was I can't believe you

415
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,880
can do it. That's It's It's
a pretty major effort, for sure,

416
00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:42,760
and some days I wonder how I've
done it, and most days I wonder

417
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:49,400
why I've done it. But I
think the principal driving force is what I

418
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,519
mentioned earlier. It's the greatest scientific
question before mankind. Are we alone in

419
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:59,679
this universe? Or are we not? And clearly the answer to that question

420
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:05,920
from my seat here at the National
UFO Reporting Centers, we are not alone.

421
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:12,679
And there is some fundamental relationship between
these creatures that we presume navigate in

422
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,079
these ships that are being reported to
us that we are not yet aware of.

423
00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:22,880
And if we can prove that they
are there, and maybe we can

424
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,239
talk about my proposal for doing that
later in the program. Sure, using

425
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,800
passive radar, if we can prove
they're there, it's the greatest scientific discovery

426
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,079
of all time. Yeah, many
times I brought up on this show that

427
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:45,280
this is such a passing phenomena that
cannot be repeated. It's there, like

428
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,760
you mentioned early on that sighting where
there was a ten second involvement in what

429
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,159
you saw, and a lot of
times that's all you have. The other

430
00:35:54,280 --> 00:36:00,960
day, yesterday, I was in
Boston and something caught my eye and in

431
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:05,599
the sky, and I went to
get my phone and by the time by

432
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:08,239
the time I got my phone ready
to take a picture, it was already

433
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,559
gone. But by the way,
it's kind of funny, and it ended

434
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:15,960
up being a blimp and it was
like going through the trees. So but

435
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:17,719
it really, you know, something
caught my eye and it looked different.

436
00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:23,199
And but a lot of times you
just don't have time to react. You

437
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,280
know, you're fumbling and you're like
trying to find you know, now we

438
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,199
have we all walk around with cameras
now basically on our phones, or most

439
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:37,199
a lot of people do. But
it's still to you know, when I

440
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,119
had my I had a sighting back
in two thousand and six. That and

441
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,920
by the way, I'm going to
talk a little bit about this, I

442
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,199
had no idea that it could be
reported. I didn't even know that was

443
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:52,480
an option. But when I had
my sighting, the really the last thing

444
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:54,840
I would have thought of is grabbing
a camera. You know. I was

445
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,480
just so mesmerized, and like,
what the heck happened? Often happens people

446
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:07,039
are so focused on this strange object
that they're looking at before them that they

447
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:10,000
don't even stop to think to get
a photographic record of it, right,

448
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,480
right, And so about reporting UFOs, like I just mentioned, the only

449
00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:19,039
thing I could think of was called
the police department, which I did.

450
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:22,559
I got the run around. It
was. It was not a fun experience,

451
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:28,039
but I had no idea who to
call. But even with that going

452
00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:31,440
on, I'm saying, maybe I'm
an I don't know if I'm what you

453
00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:36,199
consider an average person out there,
but I was a person that had not

454
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:42,159
seen anything before that happened. I
didn't know what to do, and I

455
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:46,119
think that has got to be a
major percentage of people that have sightings.

456
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,599
They must come up with the same
thing. I don't know where to go

457
00:37:50,679 --> 00:37:53,079
with this, And now some of
them think to go online and take a

458
00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:58,840
look, but I didn't. Yeah, most nine to one one facilities across

459
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:04,760
the country know about our our center. So if a person dials nine to

460
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,599
one one on his telephone and goes
to the local emergency response center, they

461
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:15,559
most of them, perhaps all of
them, by now have our contact information

462
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:22,079
both website as well as hotline telephone
number. They should have given that to

463
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:25,719
you. I guess there may still
be a few luodites out there that don't

464
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:32,599
have it, some hangers on,
but most people, if they call the

465
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:37,639
local nine one one facility, will
be given our number. Isn't that amazing?

466
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:43,280
That's great? I think that's great. And you know, one of

467
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,559
the things I was thinking about all
these reports come in, would you have

468
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:52,239
a guess of how many per year
did you handle? Yes, I am

469
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:59,760
posting probably about between six thousand and
ten thousand reports per year, although we

470
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,360
get vastly more than that. Most
people do not want to submit a written

471
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,239
report. It's one of the hardest
things in this job is trying to get

472
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:15,840
people to write down what they've seen. Most people just want to talk about

473
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,639
it. They want to call.
They'll chit chat for maybe five or ten

474
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,599
minutes. Most people want thirty or
forty or fifty minutes to tell me the

475
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:27,239
whole story, and I try to
stop them from doing that. What I

476
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,880
want people to do if they believe
they've been witnessed to UFO is write out

477
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:37,559
a detailed description of what it was
they saw and submit it using our online

478
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:44,719
report form. So we get many
more calls than we get reports, and

479
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:52,280
what people see on our website probably
represents a third of what we receive.

480
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,119
So for example, in the month
of June, we posted between five and

481
00:39:57,159 --> 00:40:05,920
six hundred reports to our website,
and that might represent oh the thousand or

482
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,599
fifteen hundred contacts we had, and
most of those people don't follow up with

483
00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:16,199
a report. It's a great tragedy. And here's an interesting factoid, Martin

484
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:22,400
that you might find very interesting.
It is my estimate now after having done

485
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:28,400
this job for twenty one years,
it is my estimate that out of twenty

486
00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:35,440
thousand or so Americans who witness what
they think may have been a UFO,

487
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:40,199
only one out of twenty thousand will
ever report it? One out of twenty

488
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:46,800
thousand, isn't that odd? Oh
my god, I had no idea.

489
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:55,840
I have been in rooms in conferences
where the speaker, for instance, Richard

490
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,400
Dolan once said how many people think
they have seen UFO and watch the hands,

491
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:07,559
and then how many people reported it? And you know it's just just

492
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:10,280
a few hands go up now.
And here's the thing about that, if

493
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,159
these people are at a convention about
UFOs, they're more likely to be the

494
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:19,920
type of person that would have reported
it than not. So then you factor

495
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:25,519
all that in and so if you
do the math, you come up with

496
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:35,559
an enormous amount of possible sightings per
year, I mean, unfathomable. Yes,

497
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:43,840
I agree, And it's very frustrating
to us who know that most of

498
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:51,000
the reports are falling through the cracks. It's very frustrating that we're not receiving

499
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:55,280
those reports. And I have never
heard so many excuses in all my life

500
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:01,440
as I've heard running a UFO hotline
as to wipe people cannot write it down,

501
00:42:02,039 --> 00:42:07,440
cannot write down the details of their
sighting. It's sort of disheartening,

502
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:14,360
actually, But fortunately there's some diligent, many diligent people out there enough,

503
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:22,480
so we're getting a fairly steady stream
of high quality reports from those relatively few

504
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,960
people who are willing to write it
down and report it. If you had

505
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,360
to guess why a person wouldn't go
through with the report once they contacted you,

506
00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:37,440
why would you think that might be
the possibility. Yeah, I don't

507
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,800
think we have enough time remaining in
this program for me to cite all of

508
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:49,800
the excuses that people have leveled at
me. It's just amazing. A lot

509
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,440
of people say, well, they're
in a sensitive business, and I'm wondering

510
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:59,920
about what they would pull their top
secret security clearance and they'd lose their job,

511
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:05,599
the solid landfill something like that,
and on and on. They don't

512
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:09,360
want their family to know, they
don't want this person to know. It's

513
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:15,519
just amazing the excuses that people will
come up with that will get them off

514
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:20,679
the hook of writing just one or
two or three paragraphs to describe what they

515
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,679
saw well in a way, I
understand, you know, the ridicule factor

516
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,280
is all part of that, because
you know, just for instance, going

517
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,239
on further about the sighting I had, I told one person that I worked

518
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,719
with the following Monday, or whatever
it was, and I said, now,

519
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:42,480
don't tell anybody. And you know
it wasn't too long, you know,

520
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,880
maybe a couple days later there was
you know, there was a lot

521
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:52,079
of teasing going on. So well, that's the advantage of having a national

522
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:58,639
UFO Reporting center and we do essentially
the same thing that MUFON does. They

523
00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:04,519
do a good job collecting reports as
well. But that's where the guarantee that

524
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:08,320
anonymity comes into play, because if
a person reports to our center and we

525
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:14,639
post the report, nobody will ever
know who had submitted the report, so

526
00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:19,599
they don't have to worry about ridicule. Nobody will know who they are who

527
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,599
have submitted the report to our center. You know, we have a message

528
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:27,559
up on the message board that kind
of dovetails this, and that is Matt

529
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,199
wants to know. I wanted to
know why that witness information wasn't up there,

530
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,519
and I realized that is. You
know, with anonymity, you can

531
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:43,199
get truthful information and a lot of
information out there. However, is there

532
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:49,960
ever a point where someone wants to
be contacted by someone who investigates a particular

533
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:53,599
case or something like that. You
bet, But most cases, in my

534
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:59,360
opinion, usually do not warrant the
amount of resource you have to dedicate to

535
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:06,079
an investor gation an object, a
distant object in the daytime or nighttime sky

536
00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:15,239
probably does very little good for an
investigator to go out and interview the witness.

537
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:20,639
If it's just a distant object,
we'll probably never know what it is

538
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,039
or what it was. What I
encouraged people to do and they can be

539
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:31,000
their own investigators and people. We
live in a society in which everybody expects

540
00:45:31,039 --> 00:45:36,880
somebody else to do the work.
That's why committees are so popular. But

541
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,880
in fact the witness can do a
great deal by contacting the press, radio,

542
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:50,119
television and newspapers to apprise them of
that person citing and to ask them

543
00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:54,320
if the person can get some publicity, or if the news media would publicize

544
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,079
it and encourage anybody else who might
have seen the same thing to come forward.

545
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:05,840
For some strange reason, people hesitate
to do that, even though the

546
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:12,239
press is often willing to impart anonymity
to a witness, I don't understand it.

547
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,599
In fact, the young people are
sort of interesting. It's a bit

548
00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:22,800
distressing when I encourage them to contact
the press. More often than not,

549
00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:29,239
in dealing with a person who's maybe
twenty five or younger. They'll say who

550
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,760
is that? They don't know who
the press is or are, and I

551
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,079
say, well, radio, television
and newspapers. And they say, well,

552
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:40,840
do you have any telephone numbers for
them? And I say no,

553
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:47,000
they're in your area. Look them
up in the telephone book and apprise them

554
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,039
of your citing them. See if
you can get some publicity. And almost

555
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:58,599
invariably they do not do that.
It's very strange. You know, one

556
00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:05,159
thing, I work with almost thirty
young people and startup I do. A

557
00:47:05,159 --> 00:47:07,199
lot of them are twenty five or
under, most of them, and every

558
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:15,119
single person there knows that I do
this show and not one person gives me

559
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:19,360
a hard time about it, and
that some of them listen to it.

560
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:22,719
Some may be listening right now.
So I think it's a good thing that

561
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:29,159
young people. Are you interested in
this subject because, and this is going

562
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:32,960
to segue into my next question,
you know we need this to carry on.

563
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:37,840
It's very important. I believe the
same way you do. But speaking

564
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:44,639
of carrying on with all the work
you do, and you're really totally totally

565
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:50,960
dedicated, do you have a predecessor
someone that will pick up when you're ready

566
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,480
to sew down a little bit.
Yeah, that's pretty well provided for.

567
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,920
That eliminates the possibility of somebody being
able to eliminate the hotline by eliminating me.

568
00:48:04,119 --> 00:48:10,760
So that's we've made a provision for
that, and the person is aware

569
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,360
of it and is willing to take
it over in the event that I'm not

570
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,440
able to do it. And that's
a good point. I have an immense

571
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,159
amount of material, most of all
the database that now has about one hundred

572
00:48:24,199 --> 00:48:32,159
and eight thousand entries in it,
and that work should be continued. It's

573
00:48:32,559 --> 00:48:38,239
far more important, far more important
than the welfare of one single individual.

574
00:48:39,199 --> 00:48:45,559
And so do you think this person
or people would have the same dedication that

575
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:51,440
you have. Well, once I
started taking calls and receiving reports, I

576
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:58,559
think they would. It's an addictive
pastime if you're interested in UFOs in the

577
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:06,880
first place. To have free reign
of the hotline is an immense luxury because

578
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,920
you see what's going on not just
across the United States but around the world

579
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,639
with respect to the UFO phenomenon.
Now, one of the things, you

580
00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:21,400
know, mofon is another place where
people call in and you know, give

581
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:27,000
reports. There's investigations and all that. Has there ever been any talk about

582
00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:32,800
some type of unity between different organizations
even internationally that you're aware of us.

583
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:38,800
Everybody wants all these UFO organizations to
unify, and one person wants control of

584
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:45,239
it, and to date I've avoided
that. Move On has actually proposed that

585
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:53,000
to me so that our databases are
merged. But I've decided that I really

586
00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:57,039
don't want to do that. I
don't want to have worked for twenty one

587
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:02,000
years only to give all my information
away from free. So I think a

588
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:09,840
little competition is probably a good thing, because if there were one body that

589
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:19,679
would controlled all of the flow of
information and that entity decided to make a

590
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,440
decision that the contributors were not pleased
with, it would end up it would

591
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:30,719
be sort of the Greek syndrome,
alluding to the situation in Greece this week.

592
00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:37,840
Many of them would want to withdraw. So I think a little competition

593
00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:45,440
is a good idea. And there
enough UFO sightings and citing reports to keep

594
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:52,480
all UFO organizations plenty busy. If
we're catching Oh, if my estimate is

595
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:59,400
right that only one out of twenty
thousand UFO reports has ever ever reported by

596
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:08,079
the witness. Then there's plenty of
work to be done still, and enough

597
00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:14,280
for many UFO organizations, is what
I'm trying to say. Up on the

598
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,159
message board, we had a question. Someone wanted to know basically what your

599
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:24,719
thoughts were of the government if well, it remains to be seen whether the

600
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:29,920
government's covering up. I think there's
in my opinion, it's a possibility that

601
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:35,000
there's some fragment of the government at
least that has covered up in the past,

602
00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:37,599
possibly still, or most likely still, I would say, because you

603
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:42,719
know there's still reports coming into the
Air Force and that are just hush hushed.

604
00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:45,119
But what do you think it would
take, This is the question on

605
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:49,079
the message board. What do you
think it would take for the government to

606
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:52,719
finally admit that these things are happening. Well, I think it's going to

607
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:58,679
take an over display, something like
the Phoenix lights back in nineteen ninety seven

608
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:06,079
March of ninety seven, so that
the government's position is just made extraneous.

609
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:10,480
They've been lined to the American people
about UFOs, I believe since the nineteen

610
00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:15,800
forties. After you've been lined for
that length of time on a subject of

611
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:22,719
that gravity, of that importance,
then it's very difficult to do in about

612
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:28,800
face and say, well, we've
been lying to you for sixty seven years,

613
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:31,679
but now we're going to come clean
and tell you what's really going on.

614
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:38,599
So they've painted themselves into a corner
and they're probably trying to figure out

615
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:47,320
what they're going to do if there's
a really dramatic over display of UFO presence

616
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,239
in the near earth environment. And
in fact, we're getting a lot of

617
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:58,800
reports that, in my opinion,
fall under that category, a lot of

618
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:06,800
reports. The most interesting phenomenon currently, in my opinion, is the reports

619
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:12,239
of displays of clusters of red,
orange, yellow, amber, and gold

620
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:16,400
orbs or fireballs, call them what
you will. We really don't have an

621
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:22,159
adequate term because we don't know what
these things are, and we probably will

622
00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:28,239
not know until we have a long
handled butterfly net that allows us to reach

623
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,719
up and snag one of these things
and bring it down to the laboratory bench.

624
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:37,719
That the US government is a strange
bird. In fact, my greatest

625
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:45,119
concern is not the UFOs. My
greatest concern is the possibility that our governments

626
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:54,519
are now coordinating their activities with alien
creatures. And when I look at what

627
00:53:54,599 --> 00:54:00,400
the US government is now doing to
the American people instead of for the American

628
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,880
people, which is what they should
be doing. In my opinion, I

629
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:12,159
get very concerned. And some of
the examples are the US government seems dedicated

630
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,760
to taking firearms away from the American
people. That's not their job. Of

631
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:22,199
course, under Article six, paragraph
two of the Constitution, any public servant

632
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:27,599
who takes an oath of office swears
and testifies to the effect that he or

633
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:34,280
she is going to defend and protect
the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and

634
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,400
domestic. And suddenly, as soon
as they take office, they're trying to

635
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:46,119
re engineer the country and re engineer
individual citizens' lives. So when I see

636
00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:52,159
this take place and I ask myself, why are they doing that? And

637
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,639
I bounce it off the UFO phenomenon, it makes me wonder what's going on

638
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:02,639
in Washington, DC. Clearly those
people know about UFOs. If I can,

639
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,960
with nothing more than a telephone,
a computer, a tape recorder,

640
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:14,039
and a dedicated webmaster, can collect
one hundred and eight one hundred and eight

641
00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:20,760
thousand UFO reports and post them,
I can just imagine how many the US

642
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:23,679
government must have in its files,
must be in the millions. You know,

643
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:28,960
that's right. That is, while
you're mentioning this. I mentioned earlier

644
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,360
that I didn't know who to call
when I had my sighting. The Air

645
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,000
Force is one of the things on
my mind, like should I call the

646
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,360
Air Force? And I imagine that
a lot of people do a question up

647
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,440
on the message board. And by
the way, if you're listening live,

648
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,079
you can jump in to the message
board. It's right on podcast fhone.

649
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:52,000
We're taking calls in the second second
hour of the show. And you know,

650
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:55,920
this darn chat room just goes away. I mean, here we go.

651
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:02,320
What is your point of view on
the most effective way for disclosure to

652
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:07,679
take place other than you're saying a
massive sighting. Yeah, well, I've

653
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,599
been over that ground before. It's
a very good question, it's very pertinent,

654
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:17,719
and my response is very simple.
Please read the paper that is posted

655
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:23,960
to the homepage of the National UFO
Reporting Center, the paper in which I

656
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:30,760
describe the use of passive radar for
detecting the presence of UFOs in the near

657
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:38,440
Earth environment. The paper was written
in preparation for a presentation at the Muffon

658
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:45,760
Symposium in Denver in July of two
thousand and four, and the day Mufon

659
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:51,800
published the abstract, the one paragraph
abstract of my paper, I got a

660
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:57,119
telephone call from a senior officer at
the Central Intelligence Agency in Washington, DC.

661
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:04,320
He called from his office. He
was during daylight hour, during work

662
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,000
hours, and he said, mister
Davenport, I am so and so.

663
00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:12,880
He said, I am a senior
officer at the Central Intelligence Agency. I've

664
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,599
been with them for over two decades. He said, to let you know

665
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:22,840
how senior I am. I am
the person who gives President Bush his daily

666
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:29,119
briefing every morning at six thirty am. He said, a retired colleague of

667
00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:34,280
mine just sent me a copy of
the abstract of your paper. He said,

668
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,960
if you build the radar system that
you describe in your paper, he

669
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:43,840
said, you will be successful in
answering the question of whether UFOs are real

670
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:49,239
or not. He didn't say he
chose his words very carefully. Of course,

671
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:53,480
he didn't say you will detect UFOs, because that probably would have had

672
00:57:53,559 --> 00:58:00,280
him violating a secrecy oath. He
just said, you will be successful in

673
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,599
answering the question of whether UFOs are
real or not. Well, we've had

674
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:12,039
several conversations and exchange emails since that
first conversation. That first conversation occurred on

675
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:15,519
the sixth of July two thousand and
four. This guy is very interested in

676
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:22,159
UFOs and he described to me he's
a PhD, has a PhD in physics.

677
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:28,519
He described to me the fact that
during the first decade or two of

678
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:36,239
his work at the CIA, his
principal responsibility was building passive radar systems for

679
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:42,960
the clandestine detection of targets. So
that tells me several things. One that

680
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:50,960
my proposal for breaking down the barriers
to UFO secrecy has merit to it.

681
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,880
It also tells me that the US
government knows fully well what's going on,

682
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:02,519
and they probably are operating passive radar
systems all the time and see UFOs I

683
00:59:02,599 --> 00:59:09,360
suspect on a daily basis. Wow, amazing. So that is your That's

684
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:15,840
on the newfork website. Yes,
it's been there for eleven years and I

685
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:22,280
rarely rarely get a comment. But
I solved the problem. We can build

686
00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:29,400
a passive radar system. And many
people probably are not familiar with passive radar,

687
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:34,480
but if they go to our homepage. Last Wednesday, we updated the

688
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:42,360
homepage and I put some links and
some articles about passive radar on our homepage

689
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,880
and people can read about it and
they will see that human beings, we

690
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:55,039
mere citizens and civilians, are now
because of the developments in computers and the

691
00:59:55,039 --> 01:00:05,079
global positioning system now able to detect
UFOs and track them by ourselves. We

692
01:00:05,159 --> 01:00:09,199
don't need to rely on the government
anymore to do that for us. Well,

693
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:15,199
I think that's pretty exciting. And
what I've been counting this system for

694
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:21,480
over twenty years. I've been to
four billionaires. I've explained it to one,

695
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:25,880
and I've sent letters to the others, and we could build this system

696
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:32,000
out of pocket change in their coffee
fund. And yet I have yet to

697
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,400
receive any funding for my proposal.
Yes, it's very strange. Yeah,

698
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:42,719
yep, there's a few other people
out there with some ideas. We can

699
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,719
talk about that a little bit.
In the second hour. We're going to

700
01:00:45,760 --> 01:01:27,199
take a quick music break. Okay, we're an hour two and we're live

701
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:32,840
with Peter Davenport. And in this
hour again we can take phone calls as

702
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:38,840
well as you can jump in the
message board on the message board at PODCASTUFO

703
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:44,280
dot com. And once again that
phone number is six oh three nine sixty

704
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:49,039
seven four oh three to Oh you're
still there, Peter, I'm still with

705
01:01:49,159 --> 01:01:52,159
you. And I gather from your
area code that you must be located in

706
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:58,360
New Hampshire. That's I am.
Actually I am north of New Hampshire,

707
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,760
and for some reason Skype gave me
that number. I wasn't even living in

708
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:04,760
New Hampshire at the time. I'm
in Maine, a great state of Maine.

709
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,280
Oh yes, up on top of
a mountain where there's beautiful views,

710
01:02:07,719 --> 01:02:14,239
no UFOs yet, and lots of
mosquitoes and blackflies. Oh yeah, the

711
01:02:14,239 --> 01:02:19,360
blackflies. Now you're you're located?
Is it Washington, Washington State? I'm

712
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:24,039
in eastern Washington. The National UFO
Reporting Center and it's hotline used to be

713
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:29,280
in Seattle until nine years ago,
and then I moved to a more rural

714
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,440
part of the state. So I'm
about fifty miles west of Spokane. Now,

715
01:02:34,239 --> 01:02:36,599
you know, I took a trip
up through there a few years ago

716
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:43,280
and it's absolutely beautiful. Nature is
gorgeous. I absolutely loved it. I

717
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:49,000
went up to see Mount Saint Helens, no Mount Saint Helens, un Saint

718
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:53,360
Helens and that whole area, yep. But just drove right all the way

719
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:58,400
up through into Canada and it was
absolutely gorgeous. Really had a wonderful time.

720
01:02:58,679 --> 01:03:01,320
One of my favorite areas of the
Yeah. Oh, it's a beautiful

721
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:05,679
place to live. If I didn't
live here, I would live in Vermont,

722
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,599
New Hampshire or Maine. I love
those places. They're wonderful except for

723
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:14,880
the winter. But that's another podcast. I'm going to be back there in

724
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:20,320
September for my fiftieth high school reunion
in Derry. Oh. Really, wow,

725
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,880
how about looking forward to it?
Yeah? How about that? Okay,

726
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,480
you were talking, you're just blocking
your phone calls? I think you

727
01:03:28,519 --> 01:03:32,079
just said in between our show break
and how many calls would you guess that

728
01:03:32,159 --> 01:03:37,239
you get per day? Oh?
A typical day is we get somewhere between

729
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:43,920
ten and fifty calls per day.
It's highly variable, and probably two thirds

730
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:49,079
of those are UFO related. The
others are from radio talk show hosts or

731
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:57,800
newspeople who are seeking information or personal
calls. So I would say, on

732
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:04,960
average, I get twenty to twenty
five reports every day over the telephone.

733
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:12,280
But as I mentioned earlier, I
suspect it's not over a quarter or a

734
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,199
third of those people who call and
want to tell me all about their citing.

735
01:04:18,079 --> 01:04:23,440
Not over a quarter or a third
of those people who call follow up

736
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:27,400
with a written report, so we
lose all that information. I guess writing

737
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,920
a paragraph or two has become too
difficult for most Americans. Now, do

738
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:36,000
you sometimes almost feel like writing it
yourself after you have the discussion with them,

739
01:04:36,199 --> 01:04:40,360
you just won't do it them.
I don't want to do it.

740
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:45,039
If that's too much for them,
I probably don't want their report anyway.

741
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,760
Yeah, yeah, I see.
You have to be dedicated, outspoken,

742
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:57,480
aggressive, determined, resolute, and
if they are not that, I allow

743
01:04:57,559 --> 01:05:02,480
for the possibility that their call may
have been a and I'm sure that happens.

744
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:09,639
Oh sixty percent some days, I
estimate sixty percent of the calls or

745
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:15,199
prank calls from young rude, oftentimes
foul mouthed Americans, generally males, but

746
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:20,599
not always. Oh, that's sad. I'm glad that you you keep persisting

747
01:05:20,639 --> 01:05:26,000
at doing this even through all that. That's still yeah, well, it's

748
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,760
it's not very pleasant. I don't
know what's wrong with young Americans. They're

749
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:35,960
different from the way they were when
I was that age, and they it's

750
01:05:36,159 --> 01:05:43,400
very strange and tragic. They apparently
don't have enough work or enough responsibility in

751
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,360
their lives to keep them busy,
so their form of recreation is to call

752
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:55,119
somebody and scream quadruplex rated profanity at
them. Oh boy, very strange.

753
01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:02,280
Yeah yeah, Now for people,
do people actually send email to you as

754
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:08,519
well? Report that way? They
do, but it's a wasted effort what

755
01:06:08,639 --> 01:06:12,440
we ask people to do. If
they've seen a UFO, they're welcome to

756
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,480
call the hotline if it's been within
the last week or so, But the

757
01:06:16,039 --> 01:06:25,159
telephone call is almost an extraneous part
of the process because it doesn't serve to

758
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:29,840
capture the information. I often equate
it to sitting at a red light in

759
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,920
your powerful pickup truck and racing the
engine. It makes you feel good,

760
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:39,239
it sounds good, it draws attention, but it doesn't do anything. The

761
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:44,559
only kind of report that we can
use is a detailed, carefully prepared,

762
01:06:45,079 --> 01:06:53,639
objective, factual, grammatically correct statement
that describes the siting or the incident that

763
01:06:53,679 --> 01:07:00,119
the person is reportingient in sufficient detail
so that another person reading the report or

764
01:07:00,679 --> 01:07:05,239
can understand clearly what it all looked
like to the original witness. That's what

765
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:10,440
we ask people to do, and
some days you'd think we're asking for their

766
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:16,000
firstborn. But there are a lot
of people who nevertheless do follow through and

767
01:07:16,199 --> 01:07:20,199
submit those reports, and those are
the ones that you see on our website

768
01:07:20,199 --> 01:07:29,719
at ufocenter dot com. Now do
you ever send information out to investigators?

769
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:32,039
Oh? Yes, okay, so
can you talk about how that works?

770
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:39,079
Yeah, Usually we send it out
to Moufon witness or Moufon investigators field investigators.

771
01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:44,599
We prefer, I prefer to deal
with them because they're a known quantity.

772
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,159
They're under supervision of the state director, who usually is a pretty professional

773
01:07:49,239 --> 01:07:55,360
person. And most of all,
we know that if we hand a case

774
01:07:55,480 --> 01:08:02,519
off to a Moufon investigator, the
witnesses anonymity is going to be preserved.

775
01:08:02,519 --> 01:08:11,599
That's one of their one of their
characteristics. One of their guarantees is just

776
01:08:11,679 --> 01:08:16,439
as the National UFO Reporting Center guarantees
and onymity, so does Moufon. So

777
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:23,279
we know that the witness is going
to be protected. So we just had

778
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:29,279
a case like this. It's posted
to our website, a case in West

779
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,880
Planes I think it's West Planes or
high Planes, Oregon. There's a photo

780
01:08:33,079 --> 01:08:40,760
on our homepage. And Tom Bowden, who's the state director for Moufon,

781
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:45,680
contacted me shortly after we posted that
report and requested contact information, which I

782
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,800
gave him, and they're in the
process of investigating that case now. Although

783
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:57,279
again a point I've made earlier in
this program is once an object has been

784
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:02,000
seen and is gone, it was
on the ground and left marks, broken

785
01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:06,520
branches, compression marks in the ground, and so on and so forth.

786
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:13,920
It's my opinion that there's not much
that can be done, particularly if you

787
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:20,720
wait more than four or five days
after the event. If you place publicity

788
01:09:21,239 --> 01:09:28,520
in the news media immediately after the
event, you might be successful in causing

789
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,840
other people who've seen the same thing
to come forward. But after four or

790
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:36,359
five days, my opinion is that
most people, even if they had a

791
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:42,079
dramatic siting, will have forgotten about
it or will be unwilling. If they

792
01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:46,800
haven't already come forward, they'd probably
be unwilling to come forward in response to

793
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:53,720
a request from investigators. But yeah, we deal with Moufon investigators on a

794
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:59,960
fairly routine basis. That's good.
Now, when did the hotline itself start

795
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,479
at the same time that you began
with the website. You said it was

796
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:08,319
twenty one years ago. Well,
that's when I took it over from the

797
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:15,079
founder and my predecessor, mister Robert
Gribble. He was a retired Seattle fireman

798
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:20,960
who set up the hotline in October
of nineteen seventy four. So we're coming

799
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:27,600
up on our forty first birthday here
very soon. And he turned it over

800
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:32,640
to me in I think it was
August of nineteen ninety four. He'd done

801
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:36,159
it for twenty years, and I
think he was pretty well worn out.

802
01:10:38,119 --> 01:10:42,600
And after I've done it for twenty
one, I understand why he would have

803
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:46,159
been worn out, because it takes
a great deal of energy and a great

804
01:10:46,199 --> 01:10:54,000
deal of devotion and dedication to keep
the thing running, and a great deal

805
01:10:54,039 --> 01:11:02,680
of expense. It's run out of
my pocket largely so. But that's when

806
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:08,960
it started, was in October of
nineteen seventy four, and ironically, that's

807
01:11:09,039 --> 01:11:13,000
just about the time I moved to
Seattle. It has often made me wonder

808
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,680
whether there was something behind my moving
to Seattle that I'm not aware of.

809
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:23,600
But I took it over in August
of nineteen seventy in nineteen ninety four,

810
01:11:24,119 --> 01:11:28,359
and I've been doing it ever since. A question up on the message board,

811
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:36,079
how confident were you that the person
was actually talking with Bush's CIA briefing

812
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:41,239
guy. I'm sorry that sounds a
little convoluted. I mean, I think,

813
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,840
yeah, he's the person is probably
alluding to the guy who called.

814
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,119
Hang on just a second, Peter, we have a call. Come in,

815
01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:55,640
caller. Thanks for calling. Please
identify yourself and give a question.

816
01:11:57,039 --> 01:12:00,880
Hey Martinus, Leen McDonald, I'm
calling the task Hi. I'm calling to

817
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:08,680
ask Peter question regarding he said earlier
on that he had been in contact with

818
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:13,640
CIA gentleman, and I just want
to know how he vetted the gentleman.

819
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:19,359
I guess he said he was Bush's
the guy gave Bush the daily briefings at

820
01:12:19,359 --> 01:12:23,359
six thirty in the morning. Yeah, so I just want to know how

821
01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:30,359
you vetted that gentleman. How I
what how you vetted vetted him? It

822
01:12:30,399 --> 01:12:34,880
turns out that this individual who worked
for the CIA is very very well known

823
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:41,520
in the CIA community, and he
has lines of communication with a lot of

824
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:46,399
people in the CIA, in the
UFO community. I've talked with him a

825
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:54,960
number of times. I've exchanged email
with him. He's he's quite well known,

826
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:00,039
and I've told this story to enough
people who know him well. I

827
01:13:00,119 --> 01:13:04,359
know people who have worked for him, and they assure me that he has

828
01:13:04,399 --> 01:13:11,039
a very real and very keen interest
in the CIA or in the UFO phenomenon.

829
01:13:11,119 --> 01:13:17,039
So there's virtually no doubt in my
mind. But he was who he

830
01:13:17,079 --> 01:13:21,239
said he was, right. Okay, Well that's actually I just wanted to

831
01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:27,600
make sure that point was really understood
by the folks in the attack room.

832
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,840
Yeah, it's a very very good
question. And please bear in mind I

833
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,399
used to work in military intelligence too. I used to be a Russian translator

834
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:41,239
for the Army Security Agency. So
I am sensitive to the type of issue

835
01:13:41,239 --> 01:13:45,760
that the caller just raised, and
would not allow myself if I could help

836
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:54,720
it to be deceived that easily.
I require evidence. In fact, most

837
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:59,720
of our listeners would be quite surprised
to learn just how skeptical I am when

838
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,640
some calls me over the hotline,
or sends me an email or emails a

839
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:10,760
formal report. Just how skeptical I
am about most reports. People have to

840
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:15,640
convince me with their evidence, most
of all with their behavior too. You

841
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,279
can tell a great deal about a
person just from that person's voice over the

842
01:14:19,319 --> 01:14:24,399
telephone. Is this a serious person? Or is this is not a serious

843
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:31,680
person? And so I'm they have
to convince me that they're a serious person.

844
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,319
They're calling about a serious sighting,
and so on and so forth.

845
01:14:35,399 --> 01:14:40,039
So the caller raises a good point. Well, thank you, Okay,

846
01:14:40,039 --> 01:14:45,359
well, thanks Martin. Just one
last comment. I've always believed that within

847
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:53,079
the UFO community, we ourselves must
be better stewards with our information, and

848
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:58,560
of course that's proved out with various
hoakses that have been perpetrated on the UFO

849
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:02,720
community by not doing so. Nevertheless, thanks gentlemen. I appreciate the answers,

850
01:15:03,279 --> 01:15:10,079
thank you for the call. And
the caller raises another good question,

851
01:15:10,199 --> 01:15:17,279
and that is how many people there
may be who call themselves ufologists whose ultimate

852
01:15:17,399 --> 01:15:26,359
objective is really to deceive people and
to get people off the scent of very

853
01:15:26,399 --> 01:15:30,079
good cases. I saw this in
the Phoenix Light's case, and I've seen

854
01:15:30,079 --> 01:15:38,399
it several times with regard to the
sightings of these fireballs that I alluded to

855
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:45,920
earlier in the program. People sending
me a message saying, well, you

856
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:51,520
can cancel that report because I found
the people who launched the Chinese lanterns and

857
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:58,079
I was going to bring that up. Yeah, it's very tempting to delete

858
01:15:58,119 --> 01:16:00,960
a case or to qualify a case, so people will know that it was

859
01:16:01,039 --> 01:16:06,680
Chinese lanterns. But I'm in the
habit of going back to that witness or

860
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:14,000
the person who supplied that information and
asking for the actual street address where the

861
01:16:14,119 --> 01:16:18,119
launch was initiated, or who did
it, or how many were launched,

862
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:25,319
And usually those people just go away. They don't want to provide those details.

863
01:16:25,399 --> 01:16:30,039
And in many cases, I assume
they don't want to provide the details

864
01:16:30,079 --> 01:16:35,119
because they don't have the details.
Their initial report was a prank to try

865
01:16:35,159 --> 01:16:39,800
to get me off the scent.
So you have to be very careful in

866
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:45,960
this field. Absolutely, And speaking
of Chinese lannards, how much of a

867
01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:51,680
pain in the butt has that been? Really not very much. When we

868
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:57,159
get a report, there's several things
that can be done while we're on the

869
01:16:57,199 --> 01:17:01,560
telephone with the witness. Of all
is to find out how large the objects

870
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:08,760
appear to be from the witness's vantage
point. The other thing that we encourage

871
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:14,920
people to do before they submit their
written report using our online report form is

872
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:19,600
called the National Weather Service or the
FAA flight Service station for that area and

873
01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:28,159
request data for the velocity and direction
of winds aloft at three six and nine

874
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:34,720
thousand feet and encourage the caller that
the witness to include that data with his

875
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:41,720
report, because what that data can
do, it can resolve the question of

876
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,840
whether the objects were drifting with the
wind or whether they were going some direction

877
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,439
opposite the wind. If the latter
is the case, then they must have

878
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:59,279
been self propelled, because obviously Chinese
lanterns or any kind of hot air balloon

879
01:17:59,359 --> 01:18:03,239
is going to drip with the prevailing
wind. They're not self propelled. So

880
01:18:03,319 --> 01:18:11,239
that's one thing that I encourage anybody
who sees one of these displays to do.

881
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:15,119
In fact, if people would like
to know, if they'd like to

882
01:18:15,159 --> 01:18:18,520
read some of the more dramatic cases
on our website, we've posted a lot

883
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:24,520
of them on our homepage, so
people can simply click on the links that

884
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:29,760
we've provided on our homepage and it
will take them to those reports. But

885
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:35,039
if they want to see some interesting
ones, the first and second of June

886
01:18:35,279 --> 01:18:42,039
twenty twelve, there was a very
good one in Saint Louis, about two

887
01:18:42,159 --> 01:18:47,159
dozen orange lights seen by a Saint
Louis police officer. The next day by

888
01:18:47,239 --> 01:18:55,039
at least a dozen orange lights seen
just east of Vancouver, Washington by a

889
01:18:55,079 --> 01:18:59,960
group of campers. They probably had
fifty or one hundred campers who were watching

890
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:05,800
this display of orange lights. They
suddenly the lights suddenly changed direction and streaked

891
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:13,960
off to the north. Another interesting
case was submitted by a former US astronaut

892
01:19:15,039 --> 01:19:19,520
the fifth of July twenty thirteen,
so just about two years ago, he

893
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:25,680
had a dramatic sighting in Athens,
Texas. Ten weeks after that, a

894
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:31,239
retired Arizona Highway Patrol officer in Glendale, Arizona saw an estimated one hundred and

895
01:19:31,239 --> 01:19:38,800
fifty to two hundred of these objects
streak across the sky in clusters. So

896
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:45,119
there's an abundance of reports that people
can read for this phenomenon. Should they

897
01:19:45,119 --> 01:19:48,560
be interested, Yes, I wanted
to talk to you about what you thought

898
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:54,880
was the growing craft sighting. But
before that, we've had this question come

899
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:58,239
up a number of times on the
message board, and that is in your

900
01:19:58,399 --> 01:20:03,359
own opinion, what would you consider
is the most compelling sighting that has been

901
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:09,600
reported to new for well, two
of them come to mind immediately, and

902
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:14,920
one I've alluded to already, and
that is the Phoenix lights case. It

903
01:20:15,039 --> 01:20:20,399
was Thursday night, the thirteenth of
March nineteen ninety seven, so almost eighteen

904
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:26,079
years ago. I remember the night
that had occurred very vividly, clearly,

905
01:20:27,079 --> 01:20:30,920
and what a lot of people may
not recognize, a lot of our readers

906
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:38,880
may not recognize, is it is
my suspicion the President William Jefferson Clinton,

907
01:20:39,359 --> 01:20:43,199
who was down in Florida on a
golf trip down there on the night of

908
01:20:43,239 --> 01:20:48,279
the Phoenix lights, may have injured
his knee as a result of that UFO

909
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:57,439
sighting, very very dramatic. It
lasted about two hours and objects were intercepted

910
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:06,439
over the intersection of Indian School Road
and Seventh Avenue, and the two pilots

911
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:14,439
that intercepted one of the objects may
have chaperoned the President down to Florida from

912
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:20,760
Washington, DC that day they were
passed. We have reason to believe that

913
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:25,159
they were part of the Air Force
one and Air Force two Protection Group,

914
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:31,640
which is a very excuse me,
very exclusive group of pilots who defend the

915
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:40,000
President or vice President or any dignitary
when they're flying being flown in Air Force

916
01:21:40,039 --> 01:21:45,479
one or any other aircraft for that
matter. So it's very interesting. Most

917
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:49,640
people who have not heard me lecture
on this point may not be aware that

918
01:21:50,119 --> 01:21:56,000
on the fifteenth of March nineteen ninety
seven, Saturday, President Clinton was on

919
01:21:56,079 --> 01:22:00,520
the front page of the New York
Times lying in a hospital bed, and

920
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:08,359
his alleged injury was either a ruse
to allow his handlers to get him to

921
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:14,399
a military safe area in response to
the events over Phoenix that night, or

922
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:18,000
perhaps he was being rushed to a
waiting vehicle in a house where he had

923
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:23,479
never been before, and he may
have been injured as he was being taken

924
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:29,520
down a staircase or something like that. But my suspicion is President Clinton was

925
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:34,520
injured when he was being moved in
response to the declaration of a deaf Con

926
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:42,880
three status Defense Condition three. Has
anyone ever been able to confirm that there

927
01:22:43,039 --> 01:22:49,960
was the dev Con three? Bill
Hamilton claims he has done that, and

928
01:22:50,119 --> 01:22:55,600
he wrote a book about the Phoenix
Lights case. I have a copy of

929
01:22:55,640 --> 01:23:01,640
it. I don't know that he's
confirmed it. I actually once called the

930
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:08,680
office the US Air Force in the
Pentagon US Air Force Office and requested that

931
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:13,840
information, and I could hear the
laughter in the background. Really yeah,

932
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,920
They said, well, we don't
reveal that. But I've since received a

933
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:24,079
communication from a gentleman who's above a
one star general that's all I can say.

934
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:32,279
Who says he knows fully well about
the Defense Condition three declaration because he

935
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:40,159
was his office was affected by that
Defcon three on the thirteenth of March nineteen

936
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:45,319
ninety seven. He's a very responsible
guy, and I'm inclined to believe every

937
01:23:45,319 --> 01:23:53,640
word he says. So I think
I think we're pretty I am pretty convinced

938
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:58,279
that a Deafcon three was declared that
night. Wow Wow. Up on the

939
01:23:58,319 --> 01:24:01,239
message board, we had a number
of people ask this same question. They

940
01:24:01,239 --> 01:24:08,319
wanted to know your opinion of advanced
night vision for citing UFOs. I was

941
01:24:08,399 --> 01:24:15,399
just talking to a young woman who
does night vision tours down in Sedona,

942
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:20,399
Arizona, and I don't know what
people are seeing with night vision binoculars or

943
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:29,199
night vision devices I should call them. I've seen some rather interesting footage that's

944
01:24:29,279 --> 01:24:33,600
captured with video. The one thing
I would warn people about is the Chinese

945
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:38,800
have put up a triplet of satellites
and a lot of people are watching them

946
01:24:39,319 --> 01:24:45,920
thinking that they're UFOs. They are
not. Mister Ted molsan out of Canada

947
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:53,720
who tracks satellites, has alerted me
to those The US Navy once had our

948
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:58,239
own. I was once fooled by
them back in August of nineteen ninety six.

949
01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:01,760
Until I realized what they were,
I started investigating what they could be.

950
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:08,920
But you have to be very careful
about just lights in the sky,

951
01:25:09,159 --> 01:25:14,800
even if they're seen with night vision
devices. What I recommend people do is

952
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:19,960
get the kind of night vision device
that allows them to slave it to a

953
01:25:20,079 --> 01:25:28,039
video camera so you can get an
indelible record of what is seen. Just

954
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:31,720
talking about what you saw is not
nearly as good, obviously as having a

955
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:40,279
photographic record of what you've observed.
Right, I agree with that. Another

956
01:25:40,319 --> 01:25:45,119
message up there is what time of
the year is your busiest time for reports?

957
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,840
Usually July, and I think it's
because of the fourth of July.

958
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:58,640
And before any of the skeptics jump
on my statement, I would encourage any

959
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:04,199
listeners who are interested in this phenomenon
to look at the data for the fourth

960
01:26:04,239 --> 01:26:09,840
of July for last year, the
year before that, going back five or

961
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:15,600
ten years, we had a very
dramatic incident over Lake Union in Seattle last

962
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:23,159
July fourth. In fact, I
had several of the witnesses on the Jefferenz

963
01:26:23,279 --> 01:26:28,159
radio program to describe what they saw. And of course it's the easiest thing

964
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:31,079
in the world to say, oh, fireworks, who would doubt what they

965
01:26:31,119 --> 01:26:36,640
were? But they were not fireworks, And you can see the photograph that

966
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:42,880
I posted to our website. I
tried to get the Seattle newspapers to cover

967
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:49,119
the incident. Many many people saw
the objects, and the newspapers refused to

968
01:26:49,159 --> 01:26:54,920
cover it. It was really a
tragedy because if they had covered it and

969
01:26:55,119 --> 01:27:00,600
encouraged other witnesses to come forward,
we could have done a really major investigation

970
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:06,399
of what was seen there. But
newspapers have become pathetic feet, milk toast,

971
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:15,479
lapdogs, that's all they are today. They no longer want to carry

972
01:27:15,359 --> 01:27:23,479
meaningful news. They want to carry
factoids that are trendy and will make sure

973
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:30,159
that their newspaper sells. But I
question whether the American people do much reading

974
01:27:30,199 --> 01:27:32,840
anymore. When I was a boy, my family used to go to the

975
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:39,720
County library in Saint Louis once a
week. We'd check out books and read

976
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:45,119
them and put them back in.
Now people are relying on their handheld devices,

977
01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:51,840
electronic devices, and usually when people
call to tell me about something that

978
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:58,600
they have seen in the media,
it is a video done by Hollywood as

979
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:05,600
opposed to a printed book or something
along those lines. There's really been quite

980
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:12,520
a dramatic change in how people consume
their news. Yes, and I'm not

981
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:18,119
sure it's for the good Frankly.
A question also up on the message board,

982
01:28:18,359 --> 01:28:24,000
how many international calls do you get? International calls? Oh, we

983
01:28:24,119 --> 01:28:29,840
got international calls almost every day from
around the world. I've gotten them from

984
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:33,680
Thailand, from South Africa, from
South America, all over Europe, from

985
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:43,199
the UK pretty frequently. And people
can see the reports from other nations on

986
01:28:43,239 --> 01:28:48,159
our website. They can sort all
of the reports by state and by province

987
01:28:48,199 --> 01:28:55,079
and by country and they can just
look at the reports. If they have

988
01:28:55,119 --> 01:28:59,359
a particular interest in one country,
they can see all of the reports from

989
01:28:59,359 --> 01:29:03,720
that country. Right now, I
want to talk something that comes to mind

990
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:08,600
to me. Or mentioned the clusters
of lights and things up, you know,

991
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,800
the orbs or whatever it is that
people are seeing. And we had

992
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:16,279
a guest on I think about two
months ago that said he was he wrote

993
01:29:16,279 --> 01:29:19,279
a book on orange orbs. I
think that's what it was about. But

994
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:25,960
it's part of Muffon is actually doing
some separate investigation that I guess he's involved

995
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:30,239
in on that. But I also
want to talk about what other different types

996
01:29:30,279 --> 01:29:34,600
of crafts that get reported. You
hear, I hear a lot about the

997
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:40,439
triangles, and that that intrigues me. You know, the triangle ones,

998
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,640
the the discs are not seen,
That's what I saw, actually, but

999
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:48,720
are not seen quite as often?
Or am I wrong about that? No?

1000
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:55,359
I think you're right. In fact, if you haven't already had David

1001
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:59,960
marler on as a guest, oh
you have. He's wonderful. Yeah,

1002
01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:04,279
he's a great researcher, a great
writer. As I speak, I'm holding

1003
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:12,239
I just dropped his book Triangular UFOs, an Estimate of the Situation, and

1004
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:17,960
he is to be commended for having
made the observation that really the use of

1005
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:24,760
the term flying saucer is almost a
misnomer. Because when he invited me to

1006
01:30:25,039 --> 01:30:30,399
look at my data to see how
many of the reports in our database were

1007
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:35,520
triangles versus discs or lights or other
things like that, two thirds of the

1008
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:45,079
cases were triangular shaped. There were
wedge shapes or triangles or things smacking of

1009
01:30:45,119 --> 01:30:51,520
some kind of triangular formation. And
it appears that what we should have done

1010
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:57,279
back on the twenty fourth of June
nineteen forty seven, when Ken Arnold made

1011
01:30:57,319 --> 01:31:03,000
his faithful flight over the Cascade Mountains. We should have coined the term unidentified

1012
01:31:03,079 --> 01:31:09,279
flying triangles instead of unidentified flying objects, because most of them are triangles.

1013
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:15,359
Ironically, what Ken Arnold saw back
in June of nineteen forty seven really were

1014
01:31:15,399 --> 01:31:20,399
not discs at all. They were
sort of a scimitar shaped object, almost

1015
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:27,279
a triangle. So we've come up
with UFO by accident, I'm afraid,

1016
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:32,319
or flying saucer by accident. Certainly. I was kind of surprised to hear

1017
01:31:32,399 --> 01:31:38,720
that how early some of the triangles
have been seen going on. There are

1018
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:43,520
some sightings all the way back to
the late eighteen hundreds or something was reported

1019
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:49,439
back then. I'm not surprised.
They appear to be the most frequently observed

1020
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:55,840
type of craft or type of object
that is seen and reported as the UFO.

1021
01:31:55,960 --> 01:32:02,000
And you're commenting on that takes me
back to the Phoenix Lights event for

1022
01:32:02,039 --> 01:32:08,399
a moment. The night of the
event, as I mentioned earlier, one

1023
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:11,960
of the objects, at least one
of the objects, was intercepted by two

1024
01:32:12,119 --> 01:32:17,119
F fifteen cs C model jet fighters. They were armed to the teeth.

1025
01:32:17,119 --> 01:32:25,079
They also had according to the one
witness, an airman who participated in the

1026
01:32:25,159 --> 01:32:30,800
intercept. They had mounted under their
starboard wing what's known as a Lantern two

1027
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:36,199
pod. It's a pod for night
imaging and navigation, very sensitive, very

1028
01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:44,279
sophisticated. They have a magnifying device
in the nose of the pod that allows

1029
01:32:44,319 --> 01:32:49,119
the pilot to reach out and magnify
a target so we can see it visually

1030
01:32:49,319 --> 01:32:58,199
and get positive identification. This is
what makes us convinced that those two aircraft

1031
01:32:58,239 --> 01:33:01,960
had been flying with Air Force one
an air Force Air Force one earlier that

1032
01:33:02,119 --> 01:33:09,279
day. But the object that the
lead pilot intercepted over Camelback Mountain, which

1033
01:33:09,319 --> 01:33:15,399
is about three or four miles north
of Sky Harbor Airport, was We've done

1034
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:19,520
the trigonometry. It was not less
than eight thousand feet above ground level,

1035
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:24,720
and it subtended an ark when viewed
from the ground of one hundred and thirty

1036
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:30,399
five degrees. Anybody who's familiar with
trigonometry will recognize what I'm talking about and

1037
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:38,479
can easily do the calculation. That
craft that was intercepted by that pilot was

1038
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:45,720
not less than seven point four statute
miles in width seven point four statute miles

1039
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:51,399
from wingtip to wingtip. Oh my
goodness, and that's why the government probably

1040
01:33:51,479 --> 01:34:00,880
panicked. They thought the landing had
probably started, and that's what induced I

1041
01:34:00,039 --> 01:34:06,079
presume it was the US Air Force
to declare a defense condition three. Wow.

1042
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:10,600
I've never heard that part of it
now, from what I understand,

1043
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:15,720
this is just bits and pieces that
I heard. But that particular pilot was

1044
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:21,079
absolutely scared to death. Yeah,
in fact, he was pretty upset.

1045
01:34:21,199 --> 01:34:26,760
He didn't know what he had intercepted. He reported to his ground crew that

1046
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:30,439
as he sat in the cockpit of
his fifteen and he was streaking to the

1047
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:35,760
south towards this object, the left
hand wing tip of the object was visible

1048
01:34:36,239 --> 01:34:41,239
at his nine o'clock position, that
is, out the left hand side of

1049
01:34:41,279 --> 01:34:45,000
his canopy. The right hand wing
tip of the craft that he was intercepting

1050
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:50,479
was at his three o'clock position.
So the object that he is flying towards,

1051
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:57,479
no doubt, it's closing velocity at
many hundreds of knots, filled one

1052
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:01,920
hundred and eighty degrees of his wind
screen and canopy. And I presume that

1053
01:35:02,079 --> 01:35:08,319
was pretty upsetting to a seasoned fighter
pilot to realize how big the object was.

1054
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:13,439
And it takes me to the incident
just over a year ago March of

1055
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:24,359
last year, when the Malaysian Triple
seven disappeared in the vicinity of Indonesia and

1056
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:29,920
the Pacific Ocean. Many people have
asked me, well, how could you

1057
01:35:30,119 --> 01:35:35,800
hide Triple seven in a UFO.
Well, if the UFOs are as big

1058
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:41,960
as the ones that were over Phoenix
on the thirteenth of March nineteen ninety seven,

1059
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,039
you could hide a Triple seven in
a corner of the ash tray of

1060
01:35:45,079 --> 01:35:50,159
one of those craft and you'd have
a hard time finding it. Again,

1061
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:58,800
so we're dealing with very sophisticated and
in some cases very large craft. Yeah,

1062
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:00,920
that's to me. I think.
You know, we talked earlier earlier

1063
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:06,720
and I mentioned I thought incident at
Exeter was one of the you know,

1064
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:12,239
in the top twenty to thirty.
I think I consider Phoenix Lights. This

1065
01:36:12,359 --> 01:36:15,479
is just again my own opinion.
I would say within the top five of

1066
01:36:16,239 --> 01:36:20,479
UFO sightings of all time. Where
would do so too? Yeah, And

1067
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:25,800
in fact I never did finish my
discussion of the Phoenix LIFs you asked me

1068
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:30,880
for. I think the two leading
cases, and I cited the Phoenix Lights.

1069
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:34,720
The other one that I am very
interested in is the Travis Walton case.

1070
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:40,720
Of November fifth, nineteen seventy five. I feel I know Travis quite

1071
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:45,640
well. I trust him implicitly,
and it's important to keep in mind that

1072
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:55,199
he was he was gunned down by
a saucer before six witnesses, and he

1073
01:36:55,399 --> 01:37:02,520
was gone and for the subsequent five
days. That's pretty dramatic. And another

1074
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:08,680
one I would sit along similar lines
is the very strange and tragic death of

1075
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:15,399
mister Todd Seas back in August of
two thousand and two. It was Sunday,

1076
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:18,600
August fourth, two thousand and two. He was seen being taken up

1077
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:26,159
into a saucer in Northumberland County,
Pennsylvania, and it took the search party

1078
01:37:27,319 --> 01:37:32,560
about another thirty nine hours to find
his grossly mutilated remains. I've talked about

1079
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:36,680
it until I'm blew in the face, and the press is not going to

1080
01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:43,479
pick up on it. I'm afraid
that is the case in Pennsylvania. Right.

1081
01:37:44,159 --> 01:37:49,520
Yes, it occurred on a Sunday
morning. Todd Seas, aged thirty

1082
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:55,800
seven. I believe very physically fit. He'd earlier in his life he had

1083
01:37:55,840 --> 01:38:03,199
been a professional wrestler or a wrestler
in academ and at five am he left

1084
01:38:03,239 --> 01:38:08,680
his home to go up on his
family property on Mount Montour, which is

1085
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:15,119
a high point in southern central Pennsylvania, and thirty minutes later, four adult

1086
01:38:15,199 --> 01:38:23,399
witnesses saw a man's body clad only
in undergarments being levitated off the top of

1087
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:28,239
Mount Montour up a shaft of what
appeared to be to them, to the

1088
01:38:28,239 --> 01:38:33,840
witnesses a shaft of light like a
shaft of light out of a flashlight in

1089
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:42,720
a fog bank. And they had
a search party was assembled that day.

1090
01:38:44,199 --> 01:38:48,119
They didn't find him that Sunday,
but about seven point fifteen that night.

1091
01:38:48,319 --> 01:38:55,439
The next night, on Monday,
the fifth of August, mister C's sun

1092
01:38:55,760 --> 01:39:03,880
found human remains hanging above ground level
in thick underbrush, and it is it's

1093
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:10,399
been reported to me that the remains
were so grossly mutilated that not even the

1094
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:16,279
sun could positively identify them as being
the remains of his late father. Very

1095
01:39:16,319 --> 01:39:20,800
tragic case. Wow. Now for
the skeptic out there, you know,

1096
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:26,439
we always have to think of every
single case, and we always hear the

1097
01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:30,439
echoes of a skeptic and what they
would say happened? What were they saying.

1098
01:39:32,199 --> 01:39:35,840
I'm not sure I've talked to any
skeptics except a few family members.

1099
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:42,039
I talked to a nurse who saw
the remains and she reported to me she

1100
01:39:42,159 --> 01:39:46,640
saw the remains in the local hospital
before they were taken to the County morgue

1101
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:55,920
where an autopsy was performed. But
the county corner of Northumberland County, when

1102
01:39:55,920 --> 01:40:01,239
I talked to him, briefly said
under no certain terms would I ever have

1103
01:40:01,359 --> 01:40:08,159
access to the autopsy report. I
asked him if photographs of the decedents remains

1104
01:40:08,199 --> 01:40:11,560
had been taken. He said,
yes, but you will never see them.

1105
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:16,000
Mister Davenport. That's a pretty tall
statement. Those are public records.

1106
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:25,520
It's not within the authority of a
coroner to say you cannot see public records.

1107
01:40:27,119 --> 01:40:31,600
So yeah, very interesting case,
and Richard Dolan has been at the

1108
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:39,960
site to talk to people about what
happened during that incident. Very tragic case.

1109
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:46,760
And one interesting thing is that this
nurse described and you can read her

1110
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:51,399
report on our website again for the
I believe it's the fourth of August two

1111
01:40:51,439 --> 01:40:59,039
thousand and two, if that's a
Sunday. She reported that the remains had

1112
01:40:59,079 --> 01:41:03,840
a very peculiar, your metallic looking
object that was clamped to the body.

1113
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:10,800
And I don't know any more details
than that. My impression is it was

1114
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:16,119
clamped to the upper arm that I'm
hard put to prove that statement is correct.

1115
01:41:17,199 --> 01:41:24,439
So that's a if a man was
killed by a UFO wall aboard a

1116
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:29,279
saucer, that's a pretty dramatic case
by my measure. Yeah, I would

1117
01:41:29,319 --> 01:41:32,760
say, you know, I think
I've heard how we had someone on the

1118
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:39,479
show at one point that was talking
about some possible you know, human mutilations

1119
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:43,760
along with the you know, the
cattle mutilations, you know, similarities and

1120
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:48,439
how they're mutilated. But this sounds
this sounds really dramatic, and I don't

1121
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:51,640
really want to know if I want
to get into the details of that for

1122
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:56,840
the listener, but of what you
know, but it does not sound pretty.

1123
01:41:58,359 --> 01:42:01,279
Bouncing around just a little bit because
of the questions on the message board,

1124
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:09,960
someone has asked repeatedly if you think
that the harp can be the high

1125
01:42:10,039 --> 01:42:15,640
frequency whatever it is radar could be
used as passive radar. No, I

1126
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:20,159
don't know exactly what harp is,
but my impression is it's just a radio

1127
01:42:20,239 --> 01:42:26,520
transmitter. Although I will qualify my
statement just a little bit, I commend

1128
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:32,399
the person who submitted the question for
thinking along the lines of passive radar.

1129
01:42:33,119 --> 01:42:42,479
It could easily be that the harp
facility is a transmitter to generate a transmitted

1130
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:47,079
signal that is used as part of
a passive radar system. Obviously, the

1131
01:42:47,119 --> 01:42:53,199
person who's posed the question knows what
passive radar means, and I commend the

1132
01:42:53,199 --> 01:42:59,520
person for a nice question, But
I personally have no knowledge of the heart

1133
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:03,680
facility and what signal it broadcasts,
what the timing is, what the frequency

1134
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:09,039
is, what the power of it
is, what the antenna field may look

1135
01:43:09,119 --> 01:43:12,800
like, and therefore the game may
be. I just don't have the technical

1136
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:17,800
facts on it, so I'm really
unable to comment in a very intelligent fashion.

1137
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:23,760
I'm afraid we had to show a
while back you were talking since we're

1138
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:29,479
on this subject of getting some type
of evidence that you know this is happening.

1139
01:43:30,359 --> 01:43:35,760
We had Doug Trumbull on along with
markd' antonio. I consider Mark a

1140
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:40,279
friend, by the way, and
for those of you listeners out there that

1141
01:43:40,319 --> 01:43:45,600
are not aware, Mark has had
some real serious health issues and with his

1142
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,279
heart, and we're hoping he pulls
through. He's he's not an old guy,

1143
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:56,880
he's you know, a real nice
man. He they are working on

1144
01:43:57,279 --> 01:44:03,560
a some type of project where they
would have little base units here and there

1145
01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:10,239
that would communicate with all different types
of instruments. Have you ever heard about

1146
01:44:10,279 --> 01:44:15,960
anything about the UPHATOG project. Yes, I have. I've read about a

1147
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:21,800
lot of means of detecting UFOs.
People use magnets, just all sorts of

1148
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:27,760
things. People propose that we link
cell phones and so on and so forth.

1149
01:44:28,039 --> 01:44:31,479
The problem with all of that is, for example, magnetic field falls

1150
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:38,359
off at the square of the distance, so detecting things with their by measuring

1151
01:44:38,399 --> 01:44:43,880
their magnetic field strength is probably not
going to be very effective. People have

1152
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:51,000
tried to do that for decades.
Hasn't worked very very well, I really

1153
01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:57,880
think. And what we need rather
than a bunch of teenagers with cell phones,

1154
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:01,720
what we need is the equivalent of
ground saucer watch. I'm surprised that

1155
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:09,079
Muffon hasn't done this. I've calculated
how many people you would need to have

1156
01:45:09,319 --> 01:45:15,960
at high points across the United States
to be able to monitor the entire geographical

1157
01:45:15,039 --> 01:45:19,239
area of the lower forty eight,
and it's only between one and two thousand

1158
01:45:19,359 --> 01:45:29,520
people. If they're at high points
with binoculars and so on. It's just

1159
01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:35,640
no different from a forest fire spotter
system, and that's what we should be

1160
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:43,800
doing. The advantage of that is
you suddenly have trained observers, people who

1161
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:50,920
know who can distinguish an aircraft from
a meteor, an overflight of the International

1162
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:57,439
Space Station from an iridium flare,
and so on and so forth. And

1163
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:01,079
that is what we need and moufon
has the ability to do it. I've

1164
01:46:01,119 --> 01:46:05,640
toyed with the idea, but I
don't have funding, and it's going to

1165
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:11,920
require a bit of funding. So
everybody has binoculars, cameras, video camcuarders

1166
01:46:12,039 --> 01:46:18,039
and so on. And we're talking
about probably a million dollars to outfit a

1167
01:46:18,079 --> 01:46:24,159
couple thousand people, and we could
have one hundred percent coverage of the United

1168
01:46:24,159 --> 01:46:29,119
States with just the personnel that MUFON
has. I think they have about ten

1169
01:46:29,199 --> 01:46:34,760
thousand members now we could have twenty
four hour daylight and nighttime coverage just with

1170
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:42,560
the personnel they have as members.
Wow. A question that just popped up

1171
01:46:42,560 --> 01:46:46,239
a little while ago on the message
board. What do you think these UFOs

1172
01:46:46,279 --> 01:46:50,439
are? There's a question we all
are trying to get the answer to.

1173
01:46:50,760 --> 01:46:56,760
Well, based on the information available
to me and based on my personal experience,

1174
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:00,960
I was born in Missouri sixty seven
years ago. So the show me

1175
01:47:01,079 --> 01:47:05,680
principle is very important to me.
I don't believe anything unless I have some

1176
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:13,319
pretty good evidence to support my belief. But looks to me as though we

1177
01:47:13,359 --> 01:47:20,279
are dealing with spacecraft that do not
originate from this planet. They appear to

1178
01:47:20,319 --> 01:47:27,760
be under intelligent control, and therefore
I conclude they're being controlled by alien life

1179
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:33,279
forms, probably very intelligent, very
capable, alien life forms. And why

1180
01:47:33,279 --> 01:47:40,000
they're not showing themselves overtly, although
that appears to be changing to a degree,

1181
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:44,920
But why they're not landing on every
golf course in America and saying,

1182
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:49,960
teach us the game of golf is
unclear to me, and it worries me

1183
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:57,920
a little bit that both the aliens
and our government do not want the American

1184
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:02,840
people thinking about this phenomenon. That
is what I mentioned earlier, the possibility

1185
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:13,399
of collusion between an alien life force, an alien civilization, and a government.

1186
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:16,520
In this case, I'm alluding to
the US government. When I look

1187
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:20,600
at what the government is doing to
us instead of for us, I get

1188
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:30,520
very concerned. It's almost as if
their actions are geared to some future event

1189
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:36,039
that they know is going to take
place. And the debt that we've accumulated

1190
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:42,520
is a case in point. You
know, if typical game theory tells you

1191
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:46,159
that if a meteor is going to
strike the planet Earth and destroy it tomorrow

1192
01:48:46,239 --> 01:48:53,640
afternoon, the most logical thing for
a person to do is borrow as much

1193
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:58,039
money as you possibly can and have
the time of your life. Conversely,

1194
01:48:58,159 --> 01:49:04,600
from the standpoint of the lenn the
lender's most rational path is to lend as

1195
01:49:04,680 --> 01:49:09,680
much as he can, because if
there's going to be no tomorrow, there's

1196
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:15,079
no point in having money in your
bank account. So it's almost as if

1197
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:23,359
these people in our government are acting
predicated on some kind of future event that

1198
01:49:23,399 --> 01:49:26,920
they know about, but you and
I do not. That worries me.

1199
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:32,640
What do you think about the Aligash
case? Very interesting case, I agree,

1200
01:49:32,720 --> 01:49:38,199
and I just want to want to
mention something about this. It ties

1201
01:49:38,239 --> 01:49:48,119
in basically, I got to meet
Jim Wiener and Charles Foltz, but I

1202
01:49:48,239 --> 01:49:53,399
never met there's two other people involved, of course, But I listened to

1203
01:49:53,479 --> 01:50:03,039
an interview that Alejandro Rojas did with
with Jack Wiener and it was really really

1204
01:50:03,119 --> 01:50:06,359
a good interview. I suggest anyone
look it up on open Minds. So

1205
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:12,359
as a pad post past podcast,
but in it, you know, toward

1206
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:16,279
the end, he basically says that, he says, well, I've never

1207
01:50:16,479 --> 01:50:20,920
you know, said this before,
but you know, I basically was given

1208
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:26,079
the message that it will be revealed
and I will be part of it,

1209
01:50:27,279 --> 01:50:31,239
you know, And to me,
as far out as that sounds, I

1210
01:50:31,279 --> 01:50:35,640
still think that is one of the
solid cases. And I'm right, I'm

1211
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:39,239
right. I believe those guys,
you know. I mean that was just

1212
01:50:40,399 --> 01:50:44,000
I sat across and talked to them
personally, and it's just it's like Travis

1213
01:50:44,039 --> 01:50:48,520
Walton, I get that, and
I think, you know, if that's

1214
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:53,760
true, that that's really interesting because
you know, he's a he's a man

1215
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:59,479
in his early sixties, so you
never know, we may see something in

1216
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:03,479
our lifetime as possible. Yeah,
my understanding is one of the Alligash isn't

1217
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:11,119
he isn't it referred to as the
Alligash five. I believe recollection. I

1218
01:51:11,199 --> 01:51:15,319
believe it's four, but might be
I could be wrong, could be wrong.

1219
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:17,039
One of them, I think is
going to be a Newport, Rhode

1220
01:51:17,079 --> 01:51:23,600
Island, on the twelfth and thirteenth
of July for a UFO gathering. I

1221
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:28,680
was invited to it. And unfortunately
was not able to attend. But I

1222
01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:33,119
believe I recall that one of the
Alligash I'm going to call them abductees,

1223
01:51:33,239 --> 01:51:40,119
one of the Alligash abductees, is
going to be at that gathering at Newport,

1224
01:51:40,279 --> 01:51:43,840
Rhode Island here in a couple of
weeks or so. I see.

1225
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:49,119
Okay, there, there's a lot
of people in the message words just to

1226
01:51:49,199 --> 01:51:55,520
let you know that really like like
what you're doing, and someone just posted

1227
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,000
on there. When you retire,
it's going to be a huge loss.

1228
01:51:58,239 --> 01:52:01,039
I thought you'd got to hear that. Well, thank you. My gratitude

1229
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:08,079
to you and for having had me
on and to all your loyal listeners and

1230
01:52:08,239 --> 01:52:13,159
people who follow this phenomenon. From
my vantage point, it appears to be

1231
01:52:13,239 --> 01:52:16,880
a very real phenomenon, and if
it's real, it's important to all of

1232
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:21,399
us and to all living things on
this planet. I feel so. I

1233
01:52:21,439 --> 01:52:26,439
appreciate the kind words. And if
people are not able to get their messages

1234
01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:30,439
into the message board today, they
can just send me an email. I'd

1235
01:52:30,479 --> 01:52:38,560
be happy to respond to their queries
and to the time permitting. Right now,

1236
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:43,199
I'm in severe overload. People may
wonder how I managed to do it.

1237
01:52:43,239 --> 01:52:46,479
Well, typically I work or am
on call two shifts a day,

1238
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:51,359
seven days a week. That's the
only way I can handle the volume of

1239
01:52:53,159 --> 01:52:59,960
email and reports and media requests and
interviews. It's a lot of work,

1240
01:53:00,119 --> 01:53:03,680
but it's, in my opinion,
very important work. I wouldn't want the

1241
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:11,520
government to be the exclusive source of
information about the UFO phenomenon. They're lying

1242
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:17,079
through their teeth, and I don't
trust them anymore. Have you. Someone

1243
01:53:17,199 --> 01:53:21,880
had asked me one time, this
is someone outside of the UFO field.

1244
01:53:23,399 --> 01:53:26,720
When I brought up kind of what
you just said or something similar, they

1245
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:31,079
said, just give me one fact
that will prove that the government's been lying

1246
01:53:31,079 --> 01:53:35,479
to us about UFOs. If you
oppose that question, what would you say

1247
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:42,159
to that person? Just I would
encourage that person to get his or her

1248
01:53:42,319 --> 01:53:48,199
own information by talking to senior officers, people who've been in positions of considerable

1249
01:53:48,239 --> 01:53:56,760
responsibility in the military. Talk to
talk to astronauts. Edgar Mitchell is a

1250
01:53:56,840 --> 01:54:02,039
case in point. Gordon Cooper another
case in point. I once wrote Alan

1251
01:54:02,159 --> 01:54:05,359
Shephard, he and I grew up
in the same town, East Terry,

1252
01:54:05,439 --> 01:54:11,079
New Hampshire. Oh, I didn't
know that he was raised in East Derry,

1253
01:54:11,079 --> 01:54:15,600
he went to Pinkerton Academy, the
same high school that was the third

1254
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:21,039
high school I attended and graduated from. But he and I were graduates of

1255
01:54:21,079 --> 01:54:27,560
the same high school and residents of
the same town. He didn't respond,

1256
01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:30,680
Unfortunately. I sent him a bunch
of material on what I was doing and

1257
01:54:31,359 --> 01:54:35,399
pointed out that we were both from
East Derry and graduates of the same high

1258
01:54:35,399 --> 01:54:39,800
school. But that was close to
the end of his life, so he

1259
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:44,279
may have had other considerations. Oh, absolutely so, Peter, were right

1260
01:54:44,359 --> 01:54:46,359
near the end. Right here again, If you want to give out your

1261
01:54:46,359 --> 01:54:49,920
website, and if you'd like to
for the people on the message board,

1262
01:54:50,279 --> 01:54:54,760
if you want to give out your
email address or you've got go ahead.

1263
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:59,760
If anybody is listening to us who's
had a UFO sighting and they haven't reported

1264
01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:03,079
it, we can do so using
the online report form a blank online fill

1265
01:55:03,119 --> 01:55:11,039
in the box type report form at
ufocenter dot com. My email address if

1266
01:55:11,079 --> 01:55:17,159
they have personal messages for me.
Email address is director at ufocenter dot com.

1267
01:55:17,560 --> 01:55:24,319
And our hotline is area code two
zero six seven two two three thousand,

1268
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:31,239
So website is ufocenter dot com.
Email is director at ufocenter dot com.

1269
01:55:31,479 --> 01:55:38,039
And the hotline is two zero six
seven two two three thousand, been

1270
01:55:38,079 --> 01:55:42,399
in continuous operation for almost forty one
years now. Amazing. Well, thanks

1271
01:55:42,399 --> 01:55:45,199
so much, Peter. That's the
end of the show. Well, thank

1272
01:55:45,239 --> 01:55:49,359
you very much for the invitation that
it's been delightful and it seems like about

1273
01:55:49,359 --> 01:55:55,600
a fifteen minute show, but sure
I could talk to you for a lot

1274
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:58,680
longer than that. Well, I
want to thank everyone for helping out with

1275
01:55:58,760 --> 01:56:01,880
the show tonight. Alahan to a
Rojas, I want to thank him for

1276
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:05,720
joining us for the news again,
that's going to be live from here on

1277
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:12,279
out. I want to thank Peggy
Shining for managing the Facebook page. Like

1278
01:56:12,399 --> 01:56:15,960
us on Facebook for all the latest
UFO news. Next week we have Israel

1279
01:56:16,119 --> 01:56:23,920
Curiel from North Carolina. He's a
Moufon spokesperson there. He'll be on And

1280
01:56:24,039 --> 01:56:27,600
I think that's about it for us
tonight. Thank you all for listening and

1281
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,600
we'll see you next week. If
you're listening now, you are a supporter

1282
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:32,680
of the show and I want to
thank you for that. And you can

1283
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:36,439
listen live every week on the Dark
Matter Digital Network.