And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randal Schampars incident that doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. It's so a classic fly Sorcer really standing into Cleary. He turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and he said, We're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark
Matter Radio Network. Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past
episodes, blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live
in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active
Facebook page. Hello, and welcome to the show. This is Martin willis
your host, and we're doing this whole show live. We're just starting this
new situation where I'm making Alejandro Rojas will be coming right up on making him
stay late at work so we can do the whole show live. And I
want to thank everyone for helping out with the show and supporting the show,
and if you'd like to listen to the second hour of the show. It
only takes a dollar a month or more. All that information is on podcastufo
dot com right on the sidebar, and we have a live chat room going
right now on podcastufo dot com right on the main page. Takes two clicks
to get in there. You can ask our guests a question later on,
and that guest is Peter Davenport from Newfork. He'll be on for both hour
one and hour two, so get some questions ready for him. He was
one of the first people on the incident Exeter case back in I think it
was nineteen sixty five, and that's local to me. And he also has
done a bunch of different things. I think he had a sighting early on
to back in the fifties in his youth, and great guy. I'm really
looking forward to that. And that's enough for me. Alejandro, how are
you? I am good? How are you? I am great? In
the great state of Maine, And we were just talking about traffic jams in
Arizona and there's hardly even roads here, so really, well, that's I
don't know if that's good or bad. That's probably bad. Hon. They
get all clogged up I'm assuming, well it's good for the moose, but
yeah, it's right a moose. You got to be creative, think outside
of the box. Well, you know, I'll lose for transportation. Tourism
here is getting heavier and heavier every year. So when we get anything like
you know, July fourth weekend coming right up, boy does I ninety five
goes right up the state of Maine and it is clogged all over really yeah,
from it goes way down into New Hampshire because there's tolls. You know,
they have to go through tolls and stop with a toll, and that
clogs everybody up. So it's always a paint. So I like being up
in the mountain away from everybody. And well, I think that gives me
an excuse to plug something. And since his is live, you can't stop
me. Where's the mute? But Roswell. I'm gonna be in Roswell this
weekend, So that's exciting, right, UFO related, it's going to be
like my eighth year or something going out there. I did miss one year,
but it's always a lot of fun and they have the most amazing fireworks
display. There's a fireworks company out there, so it's like forty five minutes,
and you think the whole thing is the finale because they're just tons and
tons. I think they just blow up all their extra ones out there.
It's incredible. You would not imagine it in this little town in the middle
of nowhere in New Mexico. But of course it'll be fun and I will
be seeing Tom and Don there and hearing what they have to say. Of
course they are in the limelight. They are quite notorious at this moment because
of the roswell slides stuff. Yeah, the lingering and lingering. Yep,
see how long it lingers. But yeah, I promised I wouldn't talk about
that. So what's going on with the news, the news? It's too
late. You already did talk about it, but I should mention I not
much about it. But today is Canadian Day. Canada Day, yay.
So we do have a story up written by a Canadian Chris Drewtowski, and
he runs a site up there where they do a lot of really good work
on following sightings. And he wrote this story about the top ten strangest Canadian
UFO reports, and he based it off of UFO researchers investigators out He pulled
so that's kind of fun. It's a Canadian day story that's up there,
and I kind of sprung that on you, so you probably don't have the
link up yet, but it's not there. You hoser. Oh, I'm
a hoser. You know. I've been refraining from saying a and hoser,
even though it's a lot of fun, and before the show started we were
doing quite a bit of it. It's I just started thinking, if it's
Canada, dahn't, we'd be selling brading them and not making fun of them,
that is, celebrating them. Yeah, it's okay. It'd be awesome
to be able to talk like that. You will you convinced me a yeah?
Closer? All right. So otherwise, though, speaking of other news
in other countries, we've posted a story and this was given to us by
Andres Mueller. He has a fourteen kind of website, Frontier Science. He
calls that website in Germany. That's very popular and he'll send us stories once
in a while, and this is a really interesting one. So the Federal
Administrative Supreme Court of Germany has forced the essentially the German government to release this
UFO file. I guess they haven't done it yet. But there's a scientific
organization that did a report on UFOs and the German government has not wanted to
release this even though people know what exists. It was created by their Scientifical
Service is what they call it. And I guess it has to do with
Germany and the UN resolution to release UFO information. But it's been kind of
a long thought battled for UFO researchers to see this paper, and soon they
will because it had to go all the way up to the Supreme Court of
Germany to release this document. So it's a really interesting file or a story
and that should be coming out soon. And as far as that UN resolution,
it actually got watered down. It was a UN I can't remember the
exact word, but something like UN suggestion it came out to be. But
if people aren't aware. In the nineteen seventy Sir Eric Gary of Grenada had
got really into UFOs. He said he had a siding and he went to
the UN as a UN country delegate and said we need to release information on
UFOs and share information and create a department at the UN then investigates UFOs.
It got stalled for a year. This was I think seventy six to seventy
seven and seventy eight, and finally it came out as kind of this UN
I can't remember the word, but it is like a suggestion or something like
that, which just means that it got watered down to the point. But
it did get voted on and passed on the records where all of the UN
countries were to share their UFO information with the UN and then they would all
share it amongst each other in these countries and never came out to fruition.
We've had some interesting stories come out, and Lise Spiegel has written about this
because lie Spiegel actually organized, yeah, he was involved. He organized a
presentation at the UoN for this thing. And we have found out later on
that the UK government especially was really against the whole thing and in the background
was a lot against it. So really interesting story. And I guess this
German paper is about their implementation of this UN resolution, so it ought to
be interesting to see. But pretty cool, pretty cool news there. Did
you get an idea of exactly when that will be released? No, the
story doesn't really go into when it may be released, just that just recently
the ruling had come down. I see, Okay, However, Andres Mueller
did get other UFO files recently released, and we have a link to that
story, and that's another story he had given us in the past as well.
So of course we don't speak German, so we got to or rely
on some of the points that he made in those files. But there's some
stuff that's somewhat interesting. It's kind of like the WikiLeaks UFO stuff that came
out. It wasn't really exciting our groundbreaking, but it was interesting, kind
of staff nines, but I can see it. Dritch. Yeah that's German,
isn't it. Yeah? Yeah, wow, you are. You have
latent talents that come out periodically, and you're just more like a person like
Blatant I think is more like Hey, before we go on to the next
show, I just want to announce our listeners that Art Bell is coming back
on this network and it's coming up. I think I want to get this
wrong. I think it's July twentieth, and you can actually go to the
Dark Matter Radio or dark Matter Digital. I'm sorry, media network. It
has changed, the r L has changed, and you can find where you
can support our art for as little as like five dollars a month. For
a subscription listen to all these shows. You know, these shows are five
days a week. So I am just I'm looking at a message I think
from the producer of the show right here, so dark Matter Digitalnetwork dot com.
There it is, thank you, Keith, dark Matter Digital. I
just do that. That's where you want to go and you can sport art.
It's midnight in the desert. You can see the link right there.
And I'm really excited about that. But we can go ahead and move on
with the news if you like. Yeah, I'm super excited too. And
what's funny is we wrote a story on that and we included some of these
fan trailers that are popping up on YouTube, and ever since then, I've
gotten at least two or three other messages from people that have said, oh,
you know, I created a fan trailer, check it out. And
at least one of them I posted on my Facebook and the guy was really
cool. He's like, oh, thank you, and it was a great
trailer. But there's all these fantrailers for our fellows show coming up popping up
on YouTube, which is pretty cool. Everybody's really excited about it. I
am as well. Yeah, and I think he'll really like, you know,
staring his own boat, being in charge of the digital in charge of
the media. He's on or you know, of course with Keith's help,
but he'll be in charge and so there won't be any of the typical bs
that's happened to him in the past. So yeah, it's really exciting,
very exciting. Speaking of exciting, it's the next exciting finding that I want
to share with everybody, which has to do with Bob Blazar. So many
of you probably know. Of course, Bob Blazaar is the alleged whistleblower who
came out and said I worked at Area fifty one or specifically at this S
four facility near Area fifty one, but he kind of flewent Area fifty one
and was bus there and he says he back engineered alien technology. Well,
he says that he also worked at Los Alamos, which is another secret kind
of a place where secret projects are worked on, and he says he has
degrees from Caltech and MIT. Well, none of the could be confirmed.
There's no teachers that have come or no students, you know, colleagues of
his that said, oh yeah, I went to school with him. Nor
has there been anybody to come forward and say yeah, I worked with him
at Los Alamos. Now George Knapp, who is an investigative journalist. He's
won something like a numerous Emmy Awards, and this guy is a real deal.
George Knapp, I'm a huge fan of his. If he says it,
it's real integrity and journalistic integrity is a big deal to him. I
believe what he has to say. And he says he has spoken with people
that work with Lozare at Los Alamos, but they don't want to come forward
because they're afraid of getting in trouble. Well, Jeremy Corbel, who you've
had on the show, who's done some documentaries, including on Bob Blazaar,
he debated and he's had this online debate going on with Stanton Friedman. But
he just recently released just this week and that when he's on Coast to Coast
am with George Knapp, that he found a physicist who worked at Los Alamos
with Bob Blazar and this guy has been willing to come forward. In fact,
I wrote a story about it and he shared with me this link that
talks about this guy. He's doctor Robert Krangle and he is a physicist.
You know, he's an impressive person. That's why this magazine had done this
story on him and some of his work. But this guy has come forward
and said that, yeah, I worked with Bob Blazaar. He says,
I know Bob Blazar was a physicist with a security clearance at Los Alamos.
One of the reasons he knows this is he was in security meetings with Bob
Blazar and these, I guess are kind of routine meetings where people are told
now, remember you're working on secret projects, so don't tell anybody about it.
Apparently Bob Blazar was asleep at the meetings because he did go out and
tell people about it. But he also says, you know, he just
knew from being around there that Bob Blazar was a physicist. So it doesn't
prove that Bob Blazar was working on alien technology. But what it does demonstrate
is that he was a technician and arguably a scientist at Los Alamos. Well,
at least it helps bolster that claim. And so the question is why
has Los Alamos been denying that Bob Blazar worked at Los Alamos. If he
actually did so, it's just more mystery. It could be proving that Bob
Blazar isn't lying at least in that you know, Los Alamos is trying to
erase his existence or working with them there, which is awfully mysterious. And
George Knapp makes another point, a couple of points that if we could prove
he worked at Los Alamos, who cares about his college his degrees because Napp
has not been able to confirm that he has these degrees that he claims to
have, and that if he was a technician at Los Alamos, which is
an important place, then it's possible he did work at Area fifty one.
Yeah, I'm still I got to tell you, I'm going to get some
people mad at me and maybe even for you a little bit, but I'm
still totally on the fence about Bob Blazar. Now Matt's going to get really
mad at me in the message board. And here's the thing. You know,
my brother in law was a chemist at Los Almost for many years,
and you know there was it's you know, I had a conversation with him.
He says. You know, there's nine to thirteen thousand people working there
at any given time, including about six to eight hundred subcontractors that are working
there. There's hundreds and hundreds of buildings. And he said, you know,
for him to remember someone that he met that was not close friends with
back in the nineteen eighties is basically, you know, I want to say,
almost impossible. Like what would make Bob Blazaar stand out? He said,
if he was famous, he was well known or you know, famous
in his field or something like that, yes, of course you remember him.
But if he was not a standout person, it would be really difficult
to you know, to remember him. And how did this come up?
How did he all of a sudden say, oh, yeah, I knew
Bob Bazaar. And I know that some of it had to do with supposedly
a friend had given him a tape. But one of the things my brother
in law said was simply ask Bob Blazar what division and group he was in
and just leave it at that. Don't give him any hints, just ask
him that question. But anyway, how dare you not believe all of this?
First, you don't believe in the roswell slides nowadays? No, I
agree with you. I'm a fence sitter on this thing too, Although I
did totally disagree with that argument. I think that's kind of silly. I
know people I worked with or I went to school with in nineteen eighty I
can easily remember. Of course, I'm not going to remember every kid at
my school, but I'm going to remember a few people. So there's got
to be people out there, like doctor Krangele who remember Bob Blazar if he
really worked out there. So I mean that's completely possible. Not only that,
this is an interesting part of the story is Jeremy was using bots.
I don't know where the hell he got these or how he uses them,
but there are these bots that go out to your Facebook. They're looking at
your Facebook. So he's like the NSA, but he's grabbing people talking about
Bob Blazar and he'll go look to see what they're doing. Anyway, they
said, this person just said, my neighbor says he worked with Bob Blazaar.
So Jeremy got ahold of that guy. Eventually became friends with a neighbor,
and the neighbor said, yeah, I really did work with Bob Blazaar.
So I mean, that's why this person never came forward before. That
would make sense. Okay, So all right, I mean, I'm open
to the fact that it's possible, but also it's I want to say,
closer to improbable than possible. But you know, if it's if it really,
if it's really you know, factual, great, it's just it's kind
of a little bit of a mystery, that's all. Yeah, it's funny.
Right after I posted this story, within a minute, John Alexander pounds
and he's sending me emails. This is ridiculous. I worked at Los Alamos.
He wasn't there, So it's kind of funny. It's certainly a lot
of minor ten thousand people. How are you going to tell who's there and
who's not. You know, well, even if if you work with them,
though, you wouldn't know if you know what I'm saying. For John
Alexandra to say, you know, he was not, oh exactly, I
know for examly exactly. And you know, your point about subcontractors is exactly
correct. In fact, doctor Kringle told Jeremy that most of the employees out
there are subcontractors now, and I think we hear this a lot. In
fact, most of the people that the federal government hires these days are contractors.
Uh, the percentage is super high. They've talked about this lately.
But yeah, you've got You've got a number of great points there. I
think, though, I give this guy the benefit of the doubt just because
of his really impressive, impressive background, And there's no reason that this person
should be putting his reputation on the line for making statements like this. So
it's entirely possible now. And working at Los Alamos, it's still a big
leap from working on extraterrestrial spacecraft, that's right, So we're no closer to
that. And you know, I mean I listened to the interview, and
you know, he did sound, you know, pretty cool and stuff like
that. But you know, there are people out there just looking for a
little fun, a little fame, sure, you know. So I don't
know, I'm not one hundred percent into it. But uh, anyway,
poor Peter. I told him we'd be calling him five minutes ago, always
waiting by the phone. So we got to go, Alejandro. But it's
been great. Thanks so much for doing this live, all right, and
we will see you later next week, all right, Thank thanks a lot.
Man yep, National UFO Reporting Center. Good afternoon. Well hello,
Peter, how are you. It's Martin from podcast UFO. Welcome to the
show. Thank you, Martin, good to be here, looking forward to
this. I always enjoy talking about my favorite subject, UFOs. Yes,
I've always enjoyed your great enthusiasm when you're giving your UFO reports. It's always
always a lot of fun. There's a lot of ground I want to cover,
and you know, we can talk about what's going on lately. But
first of all, you know, I want to say again, welcome to
the show. And how did you get interested in this topic? Peter?
Yeah, I think I can honestly say I'm interested in it because in I
think it was July of nineteen fifty four, I saw a UFO as a
young boy with my entire family, with literally hundreds of other people who saw
the same thing at a drive in theater, and I've been captivated by the
subject ever since. Clearly, something of immense magnitude and gravity is taking place
on this planet and most people don't know about it. Frankly, now that
I am a scientist much older and a scientist by training, I consider this
the field of uphology to be the most compelling and the most important scientific subject
that has ever stood before man. So I'm I'm afraid I'm hooked to it.
That is quite the statement, and you know, I have to agree.
It's funny. I have I have a son that's always been, you
know, very skeptical of this, and he enjoys me talking about the show
and you know, guests and things going on, and he's starting to say
things like, wouldn't it really be something if this is you know, if
this is really happening, you know, how exciting would it be be?
So, you know, it would make the world a lot less boring.
I think he said something like that. Boy, that's the truth. If
the UFO phenomenon is a real phenomenon, it adds an immense new dimension to
our understanding of the galaxy and universe that we live in. And I believe
it does. I believe we are dealing with a real phenomenon. I wouldn't
have spent the last twenty one years of my life running the National UFO Reporting
Center if I didn't feel that way. Frankly, yep, yep. Now,
when you had this siting back in nineteen fifty four, you said your
family witnessed it as well, whether other people involved Hundreds of people at a
drive in theater on the south side of the Saint Louis airport, and I
have written up a description, a detailed description of what happened, and posted
it to our web, the National UFO Reporting Center website ufocenter dot com,
and people can read my description of what happened. And it's not just a
question of whether I might have been making something up, because whenever my family
got together, my parents and my older brother and I got together, we
would talk about it. What did we see, what did it look like,
did it do and so on and so forth, And there must have
been at least hundreds of people in that drive in theater that night. It
was in July of nineteen fifty four, I believe was the case. I
remember that because I remember the automobile that we were sitting in, and we
had that automobile in nineteen fifty four. So July of nineteen fifty four Lambertfield,
Sat. Louis Airport was a dramatic sighting an object as big as a
full moon in the night sky, the color of a traffic red traffic signal.
And it was initially when I first saw it, it was hovering motionless
in the night sky. Suddenly, as I was looking at it, it
suddenly accelerated and went right across the airport. It executed an S shaped turn
over the airport disappeared over McDonald Aircraft Corporation, and that was it the whole
sighting, I estimate Martin lasted I would say perhaps ten seconds at the outside.
Wow, it was really quite a quite a dramatic sighting. H And
interestingly, my father was in the air traffic control tower at the time on
the other side of the airport, the north. Back in nineteen fifty four,
the tower was on the north side of the Saint Louis Airport. Now
it's on the south side, but he was standing in that tower on the
north side of the airport looking at the object with binoculars, as were the
air traffic controllers on duty at the time. Wow. Amazing did they notice
on the radar as well? Don't know. I was six and a half
years of age at the time, and if I had been sixty seven instead
of six, I would have been asking them those questions. But at six
and a half I didn't ask the questions that a good seasoned investigator should and
would ask. Yeah, of course, I just wondered if later on,
if the subject came up where your father might have mentioned that or not.
I don't recall at this time. Now, were there other sightings that you
say? Was he was he always in it? Was he an air traffic
controller? No, he was an executive for a major American airline, and
we were at the airport that evening because he had to do some work at
his office. And of course back in the fifties things were much different than
they are today. He knew probably most of the people who worked at the
airport, and so he happened to go up into the air traffic control tower
to visit with his friends who were air traffic co operators, and they were
just standing up there gabbing, I presume, when they saw that object on
the south side of the airport. Wow. Now, one of the things
I wanted to talk to you about tonight was you were involved in incident Exeter
working on that. I might be jumping too far ahead, because I was
back in sixty five, right, that's correct, September third. It occurred
and I was involved in it through an act of serendipity. I worked for
a newspaper in southern New Hampshire at the time. I lived in East Dairy,
New Hampshire. Most people were familiar with the state Nowhere. Darry,
New Hampshire is popular place for politicians to go and talk now and I worked
for the Dairy News for about probably nine or ten months. Somehow Someway,
the editor, and I got on the subject of UFOs and he was an
absolute died in the world skeptic. And in about the first week of September
nineteen sixty five, the year I graduated from high school in Derry, we
had a very dramatic sighting in Exeter. It was covered by the Manchester Union
Leader and my editor read that article and he came to me and he said,
Peter, you're now a cub reporter. I want you to go up
to Exeter, New Hampshire and get a story for us about this sighting.
So I made several trips up there. I talked to the two police officers
Hunt and Bertrand, who had seen the object. While they were standing together,
I talked to a hitchhiker, a young eighteen year old boy who had
been chased by a disc out on a rural highway near Kensington, New Hampshire.
Technically speaking, the siting occurred in Kensington, not an Exeter. The
Exeter Police Force was involved so I wrote a two part article that was published
in mid September nineteen sixty five, and in the year two thousand actually wrote
the piece on the incident for Incident at Exeter for Ronald D's Story, who
edited the UFO Encyclopedia, wrote the piece about the incident at Exeter was really
very interesting, very dramatic, and that was my second experience with UFOs.
Wow, can we for the listener out there that's not familiar with that case,
I think one of the big well, I think it's probably in the
top twenty or thirty. I would imagine as time goes on, I don't
know how you feel about that, but yeah, it was pretty dramatic and
a lot of people were involved. It really started not in the wee hours
of the morning when the hitchhiker his name was Norman Muscarello, as I recall,
was chased by the object that the incident had started. Apparently about four
hours earlier. Officer Bertrand was on patrol and he came upon what they call
around about a traffic circle up there, and as I remember, there was
a car that was parked in the center of the traffic circle, which was
very unusual. Cars don't go there, it's grass. So he investigated and
he found a woman who was hunkered down on the floor of the back seat
and her dog, as I remember, was hunkered down on the floor in
the front seat, and she was telling When he approached the car, she
started explaining to the officer that she had been chased by a disc from a
nearby town and in desperation, trying to get away from it, she pulled
up on the traffic island. Well, he didn't know what to make of
that, but she was taken to the hospital, as I recall, And
later that night, about two or two thirty in the morning, he heard
a call to all units from their headquarters in Exeter to the effect that a
young man had just burst into the Exeter Police Force office and he was quite
excited, quite muddied. Obviously he'd been in a swamp or a thicket or
something like that, which had indeed been the case, talking about how he
had been hitchhiking on a rural road near Kensington and he had been approached by
a saucer that scared him so badly he started running. In final desperation,
he jumped into a swamp which was on one side of the road and hunkered
down over under some bushes. The object that had chased him pulled right above
him, and it rotated ninety degrees, so it's now pointed the edge of
the disc is pointed down at him, and he said it hit its high
beams. He said he's never seen light as bright as that. So I
interviewed all of these people who were involved, and I was left convinced that
they had experienced something quite real and to them at the time, quite frightening.
Right, What did you ever think of the the supposed debunking of a
air plane refueler? Did you ever hear that one? Oh? I've heard
a lot of attempts to debunk it or claim it wasn't true. But I
talked to the witnesses literally days after they had had their experience, and one
of the police officers, Officer Bertrand, had been in the US Air Force,
and the notion that he would mistake refueling aircraft for a UFO is just
utter nonsense. So these claims always come forward, are always presented after a
major event like that has occurred. I suspect there's a concerted effort on the
part of I suspect the government to discredit the case, and if they can
discredit the case, still try to discredit the people, right, people who
are involved in it. Peter, We're having just a little bit of sound
issue. I'm wondering if you could make sure that you're you're right up to
your your phone? You bet? Is that a little better? That is
better? Yes? Okay, Yeah, let's uh now, let's talk about
Newfork. Is that the first? This is uh? You you actually man,
basically most of the work on that, don't you. I'm the only
person here, and I wanted to say that it was I can't believe you
can do it. That's It's It's a pretty major effort, for sure,
and some days I wonder how I've done it, and most days I wonder
why I've done it. But I think the principal driving force is what I
mentioned earlier. It's the greatest scientific question before mankind. Are we alone in
this universe? Or are we not? And clearly the answer to that question
from my seat here at the National UFO Reporting Centers, we are not alone.
And there is some fundamental relationship between these creatures that we presume navigate in
these ships that are being reported to us that we are not yet aware of.
And if we can prove that they are there, and maybe we can
talk about my proposal for doing that later in the program. Sure, using
passive radar, if we can prove they're there, it's the greatest scientific discovery
of all time. Yeah, many times I brought up on this show that
this is such a passing phenomena that cannot be repeated. It's there, like
you mentioned early on that sighting where there was a ten second involvement in what
you saw, and a lot of times that's all you have. The other
day, yesterday, I was in Boston and something caught my eye and in
the sky, and I went to get my phone and by the time by
the time I got my phone ready to take a picture, it was already
gone. But by the way, it's kind of funny, and it ended
up being a blimp and it was like going through the trees. So but
it really, you know, something caught my eye and it looked different.
And but a lot of times you just don't have time to react. You
know, you're fumbling and you're like trying to find you know, now we
have we all walk around with cameras now basically on our phones, or most
a lot of people do. But it's still to you know, when I
had my I had a sighting back in two thousand and six. That and
by the way, I'm going to talk a little bit about this, I
had no idea that it could be reported. I didn't even know that was
an option. But when I had my sighting, the really the last thing
I would have thought of is grabbing a camera. You know. I was
just so mesmerized, and like, what the heck happened? Often happens people
are so focused on this strange object that they're looking at before them that they
don't even stop to think to get a photographic record of it, right,
right, And so about reporting UFOs, like I just mentioned, the only
thing I could think of was called the police department, which I did.
I got the run around. It was. It was not a fun experience,
but I had no idea who to call. But even with that going
on, I'm saying, maybe I'm an I don't know if I'm what you
consider an average person out there, but I was a person that had not
seen anything before that happened. I didn't know what to do, and I
think that has got to be a major percentage of people that have sightings.
They must come up with the same thing. I don't know where to go
with this, And now some of them think to go online and take a
look, but I didn't. Yeah, most nine to one one facilities across
the country know about our our center. So if a person dials nine to
one one on his telephone and goes to the local emergency response center, they
most of them, perhaps all of them, by now have our contact information
both website as well as hotline telephone number. They should have given that to
you. I guess there may still be a few luodites out there that don't
have it, some hangers on, but most people, if they call the
local nine one one facility, will be given our number. Isn't that amazing?
That's great? I think that's great. And you know, one of
the things I was thinking about all these reports come in, would you have
a guess of how many per year did you handle? Yes, I am
posting probably about between six thousand and ten thousand reports per year, although we
get vastly more than that. Most people do not want to submit a written
report. It's one of the hardest things in this job is trying to get
people to write down what they've seen. Most people just want to talk about
it. They want to call. They'll chit chat for maybe five or ten
minutes. Most people want thirty or forty or fifty minutes to tell me the
whole story, and I try to stop them from doing that. What I
want people to do if they believe they've been witnessed to UFO is write out
a detailed description of what it was they saw and submit it using our online
report form. So we get many more calls than we get reports, and
what people see on our website probably represents a third of what we receive.
So for example, in the month of June, we posted between five and
six hundred reports to our website, and that might represent oh the thousand or
fifteen hundred contacts we had, and most of those people don't follow up with
a report. It's a great tragedy. And here's an interesting factoid, Martin
that you might find very interesting. It is my estimate now after having done
this job for twenty one years, it is my estimate that out of twenty
thousand or so Americans who witness what they think may have been a UFO,
only one out of twenty thousand will ever report it? One out of twenty
thousand, isn't that odd? Oh my god, I had no idea.
I have been in rooms in conferences where the speaker, for instance, Richard
Dolan once said how many people think they have seen UFO and watch the hands,
and then how many people reported it? And you know it's just just
a few hands go up now. And here's the thing about that, if
these people are at a convention about UFOs, they're more likely to be the
type of person that would have reported it than not. So then you factor
all that in and so if you do the math, you come up with
an enormous amount of possible sightings per year, I mean, unfathomable. Yes,
I agree, And it's very frustrating to us who know that most of
the reports are falling through the cracks. It's very frustrating that we're not receiving
those reports. And I have never heard so many excuses in all my life
as I've heard running a UFO hotline as to wipe people cannot write it down,
cannot write down the details of their sighting. It's sort of disheartening,
actually, But fortunately there's some diligent, many diligent people out there enough,
so we're getting a fairly steady stream of high quality reports from those relatively few
people who are willing to write it down and report it. If you had
to guess why a person wouldn't go through with the report once they contacted you,
why would you think that might be the possibility. Yeah, I don't
think we have enough time remaining in this program for me to cite all of
the excuses that people have leveled at me. It's just amazing. A lot
of people say, well, they're in a sensitive business, and I'm wondering
about what they would pull their top secret security clearance and they'd lose their job,
the solid landfill something like that, and on and on. They don't
want their family to know, they don't want this person to know. It's
just amazing the excuses that people will come up with that will get them off
the hook of writing just one or two or three paragraphs to describe what they
saw well in a way, I understand, you know, the ridicule factor
is all part of that, because you know, just for instance, going
on further about the sighting I had, I told one person that I worked
with the following Monday, or whatever it was, and I said, now,
don't tell anybody. And you know it wasn't too long, you know,
maybe a couple days later there was you know, there was a lot
of teasing going on. So well, that's the advantage of having a national
UFO Reporting center and we do essentially the same thing that MUFON does. They
do a good job collecting reports as well. But that's where the guarantee that
anonymity comes into play, because if a person reports to our center and we
post the report, nobody will ever know who had submitted the report, so
they don't have to worry about ridicule. Nobody will know who they are who
have submitted the report to our center. You know, we have a message
up on the message board that kind of dovetails this, and that is Matt
wants to know. I wanted to know why that witness information wasn't up there,
and I realized that is. You know, with anonymity, you can
get truthful information and a lot of information out there. However, is there
ever a point where someone wants to be contacted by someone who investigates a particular
case or something like that. You bet, But most cases, in my
opinion, usually do not warrant the amount of resource you have to dedicate to
an investor gation an object, a distant object in the daytime or nighttime sky
probably does very little good for an investigator to go out and interview the witness.
If it's just a distant object, we'll probably never know what it is
or what it was. What I encouraged people to do and they can be
their own investigators and people. We live in a society in which everybody expects
somebody else to do the work. That's why committees are so popular. But
in fact the witness can do a great deal by contacting the press, radio,
television and newspapers to apprise them of that person citing and to ask them
if the person can get some publicity, or if the news media would publicize
it and encourage anybody else who might have seen the same thing to come forward.
For some strange reason, people hesitate to do that, even though the
press is often willing to impart anonymity to a witness, I don't understand it.
In fact, the young people are sort of interesting. It's a bit
distressing when I encourage them to contact the press. More often than not,
in dealing with a person who's maybe twenty five or younger. They'll say who
is that? They don't know who the press is or are, and I
say, well, radio, television and newspapers. And they say, well,
do you have any telephone numbers for them? And I say no,
they're in your area. Look them up in the telephone book and apprise them
of your citing them. See if you can get some publicity. And almost
invariably they do not do that. It's very strange. You know, one
thing, I work with almost thirty young people and startup I do. A
lot of them are twenty five or under, most of them, and every
single person there knows that I do this show and not one person gives me
a hard time about it, and that some of them listen to it.
Some may be listening right now. So I think it's a good thing that
young people. Are you interested in this subject because, and this is going
to segue into my next question, you know we need this to carry on.
It's very important. I believe the same way you do. But speaking
of carrying on with all the work you do, and you're really totally totally
dedicated, do you have a predecessor someone that will pick up when you're ready
to sew down a little bit. Yeah, that's pretty well provided for.
That eliminates the possibility of somebody being able to eliminate the hotline by eliminating me.
So that's we've made a provision for that, and the person is aware
of it and is willing to take it over in the event that I'm not
able to do it. And that's a good point. I have an immense
amount of material, most of all the database that now has about one hundred
and eight thousand entries in it, and that work should be continued. It's
far more important, far more important than the welfare of one single individual.
And so do you think this person or people would have the same dedication that
you have. Well, once I started taking calls and receiving reports, I
think they would. It's an addictive pastime if you're interested in UFOs in the
first place. To have free reign of the hotline is an immense luxury because
you see what's going on not just across the United States but around the world
with respect to the UFO phenomenon. Now, one of the things, you
know, mofon is another place where people call in and you know, give
reports. There's investigations and all that. Has there ever been any talk about
some type of unity between different organizations even internationally that you're aware of us.
Everybody wants all these UFO organizations to unify, and one person wants control of
it, and to date I've avoided that. Move On has actually proposed that
to me so that our databases are merged. But I've decided that I really
don't want to do that. I don't want to have worked for twenty one
years only to give all my information away from free. So I think a
little competition is probably a good thing, because if there were one body that
would controlled all of the flow of information and that entity decided to make a
decision that the contributors were not pleased with, it would end up it would
be sort of the Greek syndrome, alluding to the situation in Greece this week.
Many of them would want to withdraw. So I think a little competition
is a good idea. And there enough UFO sightings and citing reports to keep
all UFO organizations plenty busy. If we're catching Oh, if my estimate is
right that only one out of twenty thousand UFO reports has ever ever reported by
the witness. Then there's plenty of work to be done still, and enough
for many UFO organizations, is what I'm trying to say. Up on the
message board, we had a question. Someone wanted to know basically what your
thoughts were of the government if well, it remains to be seen whether the
government's covering up. I think there's in my opinion, it's a possibility that
there's some fragment of the government at least that has covered up in the past,
possibly still, or most likely still, I would say, because you
know there's still reports coming into the Air Force and that are just hush hushed.
But what do you think it would take, This is the question on
the message board. What do you think it would take for the government to
finally admit that these things are happening. Well, I think it's going to
take an over display, something like the Phoenix lights back in nineteen ninety seven
March of ninety seven, so that the government's position is just made extraneous.
They've been lined to the American people about UFOs, I believe since the nineteen
forties. After you've been lined for that length of time on a subject of
that gravity, of that importance, then it's very difficult to do in about
face and say, well, we've been lying to you for sixty seven years,
but now we're going to come clean and tell you what's really going on.
So they've painted themselves into a corner and they're probably trying to figure out
what they're going to do if there's a really dramatic over display of UFO presence
in the near earth environment. And in fact, we're getting a lot of
reports that, in my opinion, fall under that category, a lot of
reports. The most interesting phenomenon currently, in my opinion, is the reports
of displays of clusters of red, orange, yellow, amber, and gold
orbs or fireballs, call them what you will. We really don't have an
adequate term because we don't know what these things are, and we probably will
not know until we have a long handled butterfly net that allows us to reach
up and snag one of these things and bring it down to the laboratory bench.
That the US government is a strange bird. In fact, my greatest
concern is not the UFOs. My greatest concern is the possibility that our governments
are now coordinating their activities with alien creatures. And when I look at what
the US government is now doing to the American people instead of for the American
people, which is what they should be doing. In my opinion, I
get very concerned. And some of the examples are the US government seems dedicated
to taking firearms away from the American people. That's not their job. Of
course, under Article six, paragraph two of the Constitution, any public servant
who takes an oath of office swears and testifies to the effect that he or
she is going to defend and protect the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and
domestic. And suddenly, as soon as they take office, they're trying to
re engineer the country and re engineer individual citizens' lives. So when I see
this take place and I ask myself, why are they doing that? And
I bounce it off the UFO phenomenon, it makes me wonder what's going on
in Washington, DC. Clearly those people know about UFOs. If I can,
with nothing more than a telephone, a computer, a tape recorder,
and a dedicated webmaster, can collect one hundred and eight one hundred and eight
thousand UFO reports and post them, I can just imagine how many the US
government must have in its files, must be in the millions. You know,
that's right. That is, while you're mentioning this. I mentioned earlier
that I didn't know who to call when I had my sighting. The Air
Force is one of the things on my mind, like should I call the
Air Force? And I imagine that a lot of people do a question up
on the message board. And by the way, if you're listening live,
you can jump in to the message board. It's right on podcast fhone.
We're taking calls in the second second hour of the show. And you know,
this darn chat room just goes away. I mean, here we go.
What is your point of view on the most effective way for disclosure to
take place other than you're saying a massive sighting. Yeah, well, I've
been over that ground before. It's a very good question, it's very pertinent,
and my response is very simple. Please read the paper that is posted
to the homepage of the National UFO Reporting Center, the paper in which I
describe the use of passive radar for detecting the presence of UFOs in the near
Earth environment. The paper was written in preparation for a presentation at the Muffon
Symposium in Denver in July of two thousand and four, and the day Mufon
published the abstract, the one paragraph abstract of my paper, I got a
telephone call from a senior officer at the Central Intelligence Agency in Washington, DC.
He called from his office. He was during daylight hour, during work
hours, and he said, mister Davenport, I am so and so.
He said, I am a senior officer at the Central Intelligence Agency. I've
been with them for over two decades. He said, to let you know
how senior I am. I am the person who gives President Bush his daily
briefing every morning at six thirty am. He said, a retired colleague of
mine just sent me a copy of the abstract of your paper. He said,
if you build the radar system that you describe in your paper, he
said, you will be successful in answering the question of whether UFOs are real
or not. He didn't say he chose his words very carefully. Of course,
he didn't say you will detect UFOs, because that probably would have had
him violating a secrecy oath. He just said, you will be successful in
answering the question of whether UFOs are real or not. Well, we've had
several conversations and exchange emails since that first conversation. That first conversation occurred on
the sixth of July two thousand and four. This guy is very interested in
UFOs and he described to me he's a PhD, has a PhD in physics.
He described to me the fact that during the first decade or two of
his work at the CIA, his principal responsibility was building passive radar systems for
the clandestine detection of targets. So that tells me several things. One that
my proposal for breaking down the barriers to UFO secrecy has merit to it.
It also tells me that the US government knows fully well what's going on,
and they probably are operating passive radar systems all the time and see UFOs I
suspect on a daily basis. Wow, amazing. So that is your That's
on the newfork website. Yes, it's been there for eleven years and I
rarely rarely get a comment. But I solved the problem. We can build
a passive radar system. And many people probably are not familiar with passive radar,
but if they go to our homepage. Last Wednesday, we updated the
homepage and I put some links and some articles about passive radar on our homepage
and people can read about it and they will see that human beings, we
mere citizens and civilians, are now because of the developments in computers and the
global positioning system now able to detect UFOs and track them by ourselves. We
don't need to rely on the government anymore to do that for us. Well,
I think that's pretty exciting. And what I've been counting this system for
over twenty years. I've been to four billionaires. I've explained it to one,
and I've sent letters to the others, and we could build this system
out of pocket change in their coffee fund. And yet I have yet to
receive any funding for my proposal. Yes, it's very strange. Yeah,
yep, there's a few other people out there with some ideas. We can
talk about that a little bit. In the second hour. We're going to
take a quick music break. Okay, we're an hour two and we're live
with Peter Davenport. And in this hour again we can take phone calls as
well as you can jump in the message board on the message board at PODCASTUFO
dot com. And once again that phone number is six oh three nine sixty
seven four oh three to Oh you're still there, Peter, I'm still with
you. And I gather from your area code that you must be located in
New Hampshire. That's I am. Actually I am north of New Hampshire,
and for some reason Skype gave me that number. I wasn't even living in
New Hampshire at the time. I'm in Maine, a great state of Maine.
Oh yes, up on top of a mountain where there's beautiful views,
no UFOs yet, and lots of mosquitoes and blackflies. Oh yeah, the
blackflies. Now you're you're located? Is it Washington, Washington State? I'm
in eastern Washington. The National UFO Reporting Center and it's hotline used to be
in Seattle until nine years ago, and then I moved to a more rural
part of the state. So I'm about fifty miles west of Spokane. Now,
you know, I took a trip up through there a few years ago
and it's absolutely beautiful. Nature is gorgeous. I absolutely loved it. I
went up to see Mount Saint Helens, no Mount Saint Helens, un Saint
Helens and that whole area, yep. But just drove right all the way
up through into Canada and it was absolutely gorgeous. Really had a wonderful time.
One of my favorite areas of the Yeah. Oh, it's a beautiful
place to live. If I didn't live here, I would live in Vermont,
New Hampshire or Maine. I love those places. They're wonderful except for
the winter. But that's another podcast. I'm going to be back there in
September for my fiftieth high school reunion in Derry. Oh. Really, wow,
how about looking forward to it? Yeah? How about that? Okay,
you were talking, you're just blocking your phone calls? I think you
just said in between our show break and how many calls would you guess that
you get per day? Oh? A typical day is we get somewhere between
ten and fifty calls per day. It's highly variable, and probably two thirds
of those are UFO related. The others are from radio talk show hosts or
newspeople who are seeking information or personal calls. So I would say, on
average, I get twenty to twenty five reports every day over the telephone.
But as I mentioned earlier, I suspect it's not over a quarter or a
third of those people who call and want to tell me all about their citing.
Not over a quarter or a third of those people who call follow up
with a written report, so we lose all that information. I guess writing
a paragraph or two has become too difficult for most Americans. Now, do
you sometimes almost feel like writing it yourself after you have the discussion with them,
you just won't do it them. I don't want to do it.
If that's too much for them, I probably don't want their report anyway.
Yeah, yeah, I see. You have to be dedicated, outspoken,
aggressive, determined, resolute, and if they are not that, I allow
for the possibility that their call may have been a and I'm sure that happens.
Oh sixty percent some days, I estimate sixty percent of the calls or
prank calls from young rude, oftentimes foul mouthed Americans, generally males, but
not always. Oh, that's sad. I'm glad that you you keep persisting
at doing this even through all that. That's still yeah, well, it's
it's not very pleasant. I don't know what's wrong with young Americans. They're
different from the way they were when I was that age, and they it's
very strange and tragic. They apparently don't have enough work or enough responsibility in
their lives to keep them busy, so their form of recreation is to call
somebody and scream quadruplex rated profanity at them. Oh boy, very strange.
Yeah yeah, Now for people, do people actually send email to you as
well? Report that way? They do, but it's a wasted effort what
we ask people to do. If they've seen a UFO, they're welcome to
call the hotline if it's been within the last week or so, But the
telephone call is almost an extraneous part of the process because it doesn't serve to
capture the information. I often equate it to sitting at a red light in
your powerful pickup truck and racing the engine. It makes you feel good,
it sounds good, it draws attention, but it doesn't do anything. The
only kind of report that we can use is a detailed, carefully prepared,
objective, factual, grammatically correct statement that describes the siting or the incident that
the person is reportingient in sufficient detail so that another person reading the report or
can understand clearly what it all looked like to the original witness. That's what
we ask people to do, and some days you'd think we're asking for their
firstborn. But there are a lot of people who nevertheless do follow through and
submit those reports, and those are the ones that you see on our website
at ufocenter dot com. Now do you ever send information out to investigators?
Oh? Yes, okay, so can you talk about how that works?
Yeah, Usually we send it out to Moufon witness or Moufon investigators field investigators.
We prefer, I prefer to deal with them because they're a known quantity.
They're under supervision of the state director, who usually is a pretty professional
person. And most of all, we know that if we hand a case
off to a Moufon investigator, the witnesses anonymity is going to be preserved.
That's one of their one of their characteristics. One of their guarantees is just
as the National UFO Reporting Center guarantees and onymity, so does Moufon. So
we know that the witness is going to be protected. So we just had
a case like this. It's posted to our website, a case in West
Planes I think it's West Planes or high Planes, Oregon. There's a photo
on our homepage. And Tom Bowden, who's the state director for Moufon,
contacted me shortly after we posted that report and requested contact information, which I
gave him, and they're in the process of investigating that case now. Although
again a point I've made earlier in this program is once an object has been
seen and is gone, it was on the ground and left marks, broken
branches, compression marks in the ground, and so on and so forth.
It's my opinion that there's not much that can be done, particularly if you
wait more than four or five days after the event. If you place publicity
in the news media immediately after the event, you might be successful in causing
other people who've seen the same thing to come forward. But after four or
five days, my opinion is that most people, even if they had a
dramatic siting, will have forgotten about it or will be unwilling. If they
haven't already come forward, they'd probably be unwilling to come forward in response to
a request from investigators. But yeah, we deal with Moufon investigators on a
fairly routine basis. That's good. Now, when did the hotline itself start
at the same time that you began with the website. You said it was
twenty one years ago. Well, that's when I took it over from the
founder and my predecessor, mister Robert Gribble. He was a retired Seattle fireman
who set up the hotline in October of nineteen seventy four. So we're coming
up on our forty first birthday here very soon. And he turned it over
to me in I think it was August of nineteen ninety four. He'd done
it for twenty years, and I think he was pretty well worn out.
And after I've done it for twenty one, I understand why he would have
been worn out, because it takes a great deal of energy and a great
deal of devotion and dedication to keep the thing running, and a great deal
of expense. It's run out of my pocket largely so. But that's when
it started, was in October of nineteen seventy four, and ironically, that's
just about the time I moved to Seattle. It has often made me wonder
whether there was something behind my moving to Seattle that I'm not aware of.
But I took it over in August of nineteen seventy in nineteen ninety four,
and I've been doing it ever since. A question up on the message board,
how confident were you that the person was actually talking with Bush's CIA briefing
guy. I'm sorry that sounds a little convoluted. I mean, I think,
yeah, he's the person is probably alluding to the guy who called.
Hang on just a second, Peter, we have a call. Come in,
caller. Thanks for calling. Please identify yourself and give a question.
Hey Martinus, Leen McDonald, I'm calling the task Hi. I'm calling to
ask Peter question regarding he said earlier on that he had been in contact with
CIA gentleman, and I just want to know how he vetted the gentleman.
I guess he said he was Bush's the guy gave Bush the daily briefings at
six thirty in the morning. Yeah, so I just want to know how
you vetted that gentleman. How I what how you vetted vetted him? It
turns out that this individual who worked for the CIA is very very well known
in the CIA community, and he has lines of communication with a lot of
people in the CIA, in the UFO community. I've talked with him a
number of times. I've exchanged email with him. He's he's quite well known,
and I've told this story to enough people who know him well. I
know people who have worked for him, and they assure me that he has
a very real and very keen interest in the CIA or in the UFO phenomenon.
So there's virtually no doubt in my mind. But he was who he
said he was, right. Okay, Well that's actually I just wanted to
make sure that point was really understood by the folks in the attack room.
Yeah, it's a very very good question. And please bear in mind I
used to work in military intelligence too. I used to be a Russian translator
for the Army Security Agency. So I am sensitive to the type of issue
that the caller just raised, and would not allow myself if I could help
it to be deceived that easily. I require evidence. In fact, most
of our listeners would be quite surprised to learn just how skeptical I am when
some calls me over the hotline, or sends me an email or emails a
formal report. Just how skeptical I am about most reports. People have to
convince me with their evidence, most of all with their behavior too. You
can tell a great deal about a person just from that person's voice over the
telephone. Is this a serious person? Or is this is not a serious
person? And so I'm they have to convince me that they're a serious person.
They're calling about a serious sighting, and so on and so forth.
So the caller raises a good point. Well, thank you, Okay,
well, thanks Martin. Just one last comment. I've always believed that within
the UFO community, we ourselves must be better stewards with our information, and
of course that's proved out with various hoakses that have been perpetrated on the UFO
community by not doing so. Nevertheless, thanks gentlemen. I appreciate the answers,
thank you for the call. And the caller raises another good question,
and that is how many people there may be who call themselves ufologists whose ultimate
objective is really to deceive people and to get people off the scent of very
good cases. I saw this in the Phoenix Light's case, and I've seen
it several times with regard to the sightings of these fireballs that I alluded to
earlier in the program. People sending me a message saying, well, you
can cancel that report because I found the people who launched the Chinese lanterns and
I was going to bring that up. Yeah, it's very tempting to delete
a case or to qualify a case, so people will know that it was
Chinese lanterns. But I'm in the habit of going back to that witness or
the person who supplied that information and asking for the actual street address where the
launch was initiated, or who did it, or how many were launched,
And usually those people just go away. They don't want to provide those details.
And in many cases, I assume they don't want to provide the details
because they don't have the details. Their initial report was a prank to try
to get me off the scent. So you have to be very careful in
this field. Absolutely, And speaking of Chinese lannards, how much of a
pain in the butt has that been? Really not very much. When we
get a report, there's several things that can be done while we're on the
telephone with the witness. Of all is to find out how large the objects
appear to be from the witness's vantage point. The other thing that we encourage
people to do before they submit their written report using our online report form is
called the National Weather Service or the FAA flight Service station for that area and
request data for the velocity and direction of winds aloft at three six and nine
thousand feet and encourage the caller that the witness to include that data with his
report, because what that data can do, it can resolve the question of
whether the objects were drifting with the wind or whether they were going some direction
opposite the wind. If the latter is the case, then they must have
been self propelled, because obviously Chinese lanterns or any kind of hot air balloon
is going to drip with the prevailing wind. They're not self propelled. So
that's one thing that I encourage anybody who sees one of these displays to do.
In fact, if people would like to know, if they'd like to
read some of the more dramatic cases on our website, we've posted a lot
of them on our homepage, so people can simply click on the links that
we've provided on our homepage and it will take them to those reports. But
if they want to see some interesting ones, the first and second of June
twenty twelve, there was a very good one in Saint Louis, about two
dozen orange lights seen by a Saint Louis police officer. The next day by
at least a dozen orange lights seen just east of Vancouver, Washington by a
group of campers. They probably had fifty or one hundred campers who were watching
this display of orange lights. They suddenly the lights suddenly changed direction and streaked
off to the north. Another interesting case was submitted by a former US astronaut
the fifth of July twenty thirteen, so just about two years ago, he
had a dramatic sighting in Athens, Texas. Ten weeks after that, a
retired Arizona Highway Patrol officer in Glendale, Arizona saw an estimated one hundred and
fifty to two hundred of these objects streak across the sky in clusters. So
there's an abundance of reports that people can read for this phenomenon. Should they
be interested, Yes, I wanted to talk to you about what you thought
was the growing craft sighting. But before that, we've had this question come
up a number of times on the message board, and that is in your
own opinion, what would you consider is the most compelling sighting that has been
reported to new for well, two of them come to mind immediately, and
one I've alluded to already, and that is the Phoenix lights case. It
was Thursday night, the thirteenth of March nineteen ninety seven, so almost eighteen
years ago. I remember the night that had occurred very vividly, clearly,
and what a lot of people may not recognize, a lot of our readers
may not recognize, is it is my suspicion the President William Jefferson Clinton,
who was down in Florida on a golf trip down there on the night of
the Phoenix lights, may have injured his knee as a result of that UFO
sighting, very very dramatic. It lasted about two hours and objects were intercepted
over the intersection of Indian School Road and Seventh Avenue, and the two pilots
that intercepted one of the objects may have chaperoned the President down to Florida from
Washington, DC that day they were passed. We have reason to believe that
they were part of the Air Force one and Air Force two Protection Group,
which is a very excuse me, very exclusive group of pilots who defend the
President or vice President or any dignitary when they're flying being flown in Air Force
one or any other aircraft for that matter. So it's very interesting. Most
people who have not heard me lecture on this point may not be aware that
on the fifteenth of March nineteen ninety seven, Saturday, President Clinton was on
the front page of the New York Times lying in a hospital bed, and
his alleged injury was either a ruse to allow his handlers to get him to
a military safe area in response to the events over Phoenix that night, or
perhaps he was being rushed to a waiting vehicle in a house where he had
never been before, and he may have been injured as he was being taken
down a staircase or something like that. But my suspicion is President Clinton was
injured when he was being moved in response to the declaration of a deaf Con
three status Defense Condition three. Has anyone ever been able to confirm that there
was the dev Con three? Bill Hamilton claims he has done that, and
he wrote a book about the Phoenix Lights case. I have a copy of
it. I don't know that he's confirmed it. I actually once called the
office the US Air Force in the Pentagon US Air Force Office and requested that
information, and I could hear the laughter in the background. Really yeah,
They said, well, we don't reveal that. But I've since received a
communication from a gentleman who's above a one star general that's all I can say.
Who says he knows fully well about the Defense Condition three declaration because he
was his office was affected by that Defcon three on the thirteenth of March nineteen
ninety seven. He's a very responsible guy, and I'm inclined to believe every
word he says. So I think I think we're pretty I am pretty convinced
that a Deafcon three was declared that night. Wow Wow. Up on the
message board, we had a number of people ask this same question. They
wanted to know your opinion of advanced night vision for citing UFOs. I was
just talking to a young woman who does night vision tours down in Sedona,
Arizona, and I don't know what people are seeing with night vision binoculars or
night vision devices I should call them. I've seen some rather interesting footage that's
captured with video. The one thing I would warn people about is the Chinese
have put up a triplet of satellites and a lot of people are watching them
thinking that they're UFOs. They are not. Mister Ted molsan out of Canada
who tracks satellites, has alerted me to those The US Navy once had our
own. I was once fooled by them back in August of nineteen ninety six.
Until I realized what they were, I started investigating what they could be.
But you have to be very careful about just lights in the sky,
even if they're seen with night vision devices. What I recommend people do is
get the kind of night vision device that allows them to slave it to a
video camera so you can get an indelible record of what is seen. Just
talking about what you saw is not nearly as good, obviously as having a
photographic record of what you've observed. Right, I agree with that. Another
message up there is what time of the year is your busiest time for reports?
Usually July, and I think it's because of the fourth of July.
And before any of the skeptics jump on my statement, I would encourage any
listeners who are interested in this phenomenon to look at the data for the fourth
of July for last year, the year before that, going back five or
ten years, we had a very dramatic incident over Lake Union in Seattle last
July fourth. In fact, I had several of the witnesses on the Jefferenz
radio program to describe what they saw. And of course it's the easiest thing
in the world to say, oh, fireworks, who would doubt what they
were? But they were not fireworks, And you can see the photograph that
I posted to our website. I tried to get the Seattle newspapers to cover
the incident. Many many people saw the objects, and the newspapers refused to
cover it. It was really a tragedy because if they had covered it and
encouraged other witnesses to come forward, we could have done a really major investigation
of what was seen there. But newspapers have become pathetic feet, milk toast,
lapdogs, that's all they are today. They no longer want to carry
meaningful news. They want to carry factoids that are trendy and will make sure
that their newspaper sells. But I question whether the American people do much reading
anymore. When I was a boy, my family used to go to the
County library in Saint Louis once a week. We'd check out books and read
them and put them back in. Now people are relying on their handheld devices,
electronic devices, and usually when people call to tell me about something that
they have seen in the media, it is a video done by Hollywood as
opposed to a printed book or something along those lines. There's really been quite
a dramatic change in how people consume their news. Yes, and I'm not
sure it's for the good Frankly. A question also up on the message board,
how many international calls do you get? International calls? Oh, we
got international calls almost every day from around the world. I've gotten them from
Thailand, from South Africa, from South America, all over Europe, from
the UK pretty frequently. And people can see the reports from other nations on
our website. They can sort all of the reports by state and by province
and by country and they can just look at the reports. If they have
a particular interest in one country, they can see all of the reports from
that country. Right now, I want to talk something that comes to mind
to me. Or mentioned the clusters of lights and things up, you know,
the orbs or whatever it is that people are seeing. And we had
a guest on I think about two months ago that said he was he wrote
a book on orange orbs. I think that's what it was about. But
it's part of Muffon is actually doing some separate investigation that I guess he's involved
in on that. But I also want to talk about what other different types
of crafts that get reported. You hear, I hear a lot about the
triangles, and that that intrigues me. You know, the triangle ones,
the the discs are not seen, That's what I saw, actually, but
are not seen quite as often? Or am I wrong about that? No?
I think you're right. In fact, if you haven't already had David
marler on as a guest, oh you have. He's wonderful. Yeah,
he's a great researcher, a great writer. As I speak, I'm holding
I just dropped his book Triangular UFOs, an Estimate of the Situation, and
he is to be commended for having made the observation that really the use of
the term flying saucer is almost a misnomer. Because when he invited me to
look at my data to see how many of the reports in our database were
triangles versus discs or lights or other things like that, two thirds of the
cases were triangular shaped. There were wedge shapes or triangles or things smacking of
some kind of triangular formation. And it appears that what we should have done
back on the twenty fourth of June nineteen forty seven, when Ken Arnold made
his faithful flight over the Cascade Mountains. We should have coined the term unidentified
flying triangles instead of unidentified flying objects, because most of them are triangles.
Ironically, what Ken Arnold saw back in June of nineteen forty seven really were
not discs at all. They were sort of a scimitar shaped object, almost
a triangle. So we've come up with UFO by accident, I'm afraid,
or flying saucer by accident. Certainly. I was kind of surprised to hear
that how early some of the triangles have been seen going on. There are
some sightings all the way back to the late eighteen hundreds or something was reported
back then. I'm not surprised. They appear to be the most frequently observed
type of craft or type of object that is seen and reported as the UFO.
And you're commenting on that takes me back to the Phoenix Lights event for
a moment. The night of the event, as I mentioned earlier, one
of the objects, at least one of the objects, was intercepted by two
F fifteen cs C model jet fighters. They were armed to the teeth.
They also had according to the one witness, an airman who participated in the
intercept. They had mounted under their starboard wing what's known as a Lantern two
pod. It's a pod for night imaging and navigation, very sensitive, very
sophisticated. They have a magnifying device in the nose of the pod that allows
the pilot to reach out and magnify a target so we can see it visually
and get positive identification. This is what makes us convinced that those two aircraft
had been flying with Air Force one an air Force Air Force one earlier that
day. But the object that the lead pilot intercepted over Camelback Mountain, which
is about three or four miles north of Sky Harbor Airport, was We've done
the trigonometry. It was not less than eight thousand feet above ground level,
and it subtended an ark when viewed from the ground of one hundred and thirty
five degrees. Anybody who's familiar with trigonometry will recognize what I'm talking about and
can easily do the calculation. That craft that was intercepted by that pilot was
not less than seven point four statute miles in width seven point four statute miles
from wingtip to wingtip. Oh my goodness, and that's why the government probably
panicked. They thought the landing had probably started, and that's what induced I
presume it was the US Air Force to declare a defense condition three. Wow.
I've never heard that part of it now, from what I understand,
this is just bits and pieces that I heard. But that particular pilot was
absolutely scared to death. Yeah, in fact, he was pretty upset.
He didn't know what he had intercepted. He reported to his ground crew that
as he sat in the cockpit of his fifteen and he was streaking to the
south towards this object, the left hand wing tip of the object was visible
at his nine o'clock position, that is, out the left hand side of
his canopy. The right hand wing tip of the craft that he was intercepting
was at his three o'clock position. So the object that he is flying towards,
no doubt, it's closing velocity at many hundreds of knots, filled one
hundred and eighty degrees of his wind screen and canopy. And I presume that
was pretty upsetting to a seasoned fighter pilot to realize how big the object was.
And it takes me to the incident just over a year ago March of
last year, when the Malaysian Triple seven disappeared in the vicinity of Indonesia and
the Pacific Ocean. Many people have asked me, well, how could you
hide Triple seven in a UFO. Well, if the UFOs are as big
as the ones that were over Phoenix on the thirteenth of March nineteen ninety seven,
you could hide a Triple seven in a corner of the ash tray of
one of those craft and you'd have a hard time finding it. Again,
so we're dealing with very sophisticated and in some cases very large craft. Yeah,
that's to me. I think. You know, we talked earlier earlier
and I mentioned I thought incident at Exeter was one of the you know,
in the top twenty to thirty. I think I consider Phoenix Lights. This
is just again my own opinion. I would say within the top five of
UFO sightings of all time. Where would do so too? Yeah, And
in fact I never did finish my discussion of the Phoenix LIFs you asked me
for. I think the two leading cases, and I cited the Phoenix Lights.
The other one that I am very interested in is the Travis Walton case.
Of November fifth, nineteen seventy five. I feel I know Travis quite
well. I trust him implicitly, and it's important to keep in mind that
he was he was gunned down by a saucer before six witnesses, and he
was gone and for the subsequent five days. That's pretty dramatic. And another
one I would sit along similar lines is the very strange and tragic death of
mister Todd Seas back in August of two thousand and two. It was Sunday,
August fourth, two thousand and two. He was seen being taken up
into a saucer in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania, and it took the search party
about another thirty nine hours to find his grossly mutilated remains. I've talked about
it until I'm blew in the face, and the press is not going to
pick up on it. I'm afraid that is the case in Pennsylvania. Right.
Yes, it occurred on a Sunday morning. Todd Seas, aged thirty
seven. I believe very physically fit. He'd earlier in his life he had
been a professional wrestler or a wrestler in academ and at five am he left
his home to go up on his family property on Mount Montour, which is
a high point in southern central Pennsylvania, and thirty minutes later, four adult
witnesses saw a man's body clad only in undergarments being levitated off the top of
Mount Montour up a shaft of what appeared to be to them, to the
witnesses a shaft of light like a shaft of light out of a flashlight in
a fog bank. And they had a search party was assembled that day.
They didn't find him that Sunday, but about seven point fifteen that night.
The next night, on Monday, the fifth of August, mister C's sun
found human remains hanging above ground level in thick underbrush, and it is it's
been reported to me that the remains were so grossly mutilated that not even the
sun could positively identify them as being the remains of his late father. Very
tragic case. Wow. Now for the skeptic out there, you know,
we always have to think of every single case, and we always hear the
echoes of a skeptic and what they would say happened? What were they saying.
I'm not sure I've talked to any skeptics except a few family members.
I talked to a nurse who saw the remains and she reported to me she
saw the remains in the local hospital before they were taken to the County morgue
where an autopsy was performed. But the county corner of Northumberland County, when
I talked to him, briefly said under no certain terms would I ever have
access to the autopsy report. I asked him if photographs of the decedents remains
had been taken. He said, yes, but you will never see them.
Mister Davenport. That's a pretty tall statement. Those are public records.
It's not within the authority of a coroner to say you cannot see public records.
So yeah, very interesting case, and Richard Dolan has been at the
site to talk to people about what happened during that incident. Very tragic case.
And one interesting thing is that this nurse described and you can read her
report on our website again for the I believe it's the fourth of August two
thousand and two, if that's a Sunday. She reported that the remains had
a very peculiar, your metallic looking object that was clamped to the body.
And I don't know any more details than that. My impression is it was
clamped to the upper arm that I'm hard put to prove that statement is correct.
So that's a if a man was killed by a UFO wall aboard a
saucer, that's a pretty dramatic case by my measure. Yeah, I would
say, you know, I think I've heard how we had someone on the
show at one point that was talking about some possible you know, human mutilations
along with the you know, the cattle mutilations, you know, similarities and
how they're mutilated. But this sounds this sounds really dramatic, and I don't
really want to know if I want to get into the details of that for
the listener, but of what you know, but it does not sound pretty.
Bouncing around just a little bit because of the questions on the message board,
someone has asked repeatedly if you think that the harp can be the high
frequency whatever it is radar could be used as passive radar. No, I
don't know exactly what harp is, but my impression is it's just a radio
transmitter. Although I will qualify my statement just a little bit, I commend
the person who submitted the question for thinking along the lines of passive radar.
It could easily be that the harp facility is a transmitter to generate a transmitted
signal that is used as part of a passive radar system. Obviously, the
person who's posed the question knows what passive radar means, and I commend the
person for a nice question, But I personally have no knowledge of the heart
facility and what signal it broadcasts, what the timing is, what the frequency
is, what the power of it is, what the antenna field may look
like, and therefore the game may be. I just don't have the technical
facts on it, so I'm really unable to comment in a very intelligent fashion.
I'm afraid we had to show a while back you were talking since we're
on this subject of getting some type of evidence that you know this is happening.
We had Doug Trumbull on along with markd' antonio. I consider Mark a
friend, by the way, and for those of you listeners out there that
are not aware, Mark has had some real serious health issues and with his
heart, and we're hoping he pulls through. He's he's not an old guy,
he's you know, a real nice man. He they are working on
a some type of project where they would have little base units here and there
that would communicate with all different types of instruments. Have you ever heard about
anything about the UPHATOG project. Yes, I have. I've read about a
lot of means of detecting UFOs. People use magnets, just all sorts of
things. People propose that we link cell phones and so on and so forth.
The problem with all of that is, for example, magnetic field falls
off at the square of the distance, so detecting things with their by measuring
their magnetic field strength is probably not going to be very effective. People have
tried to do that for decades. Hasn't worked very very well, I really
think. And what we need rather than a bunch of teenagers with cell phones,
what we need is the equivalent of ground saucer watch. I'm surprised that
Muffon hasn't done this. I've calculated how many people you would need to have
at high points across the United States to be able to monitor the entire geographical
area of the lower forty eight, and it's only between one and two thousand
people. If they're at high points with binoculars and so on. It's just
no different from a forest fire spotter system, and that's what we should be
doing. The advantage of that is you suddenly have trained observers, people who
know who can distinguish an aircraft from a meteor, an overflight of the International
Space Station from an iridium flare, and so on and so forth. And
that is what we need and moufon has the ability to do it. I've
toyed with the idea, but I don't have funding, and it's going to
require a bit of funding. So everybody has binoculars, cameras, video camcuarders
and so on. And we're talking about probably a million dollars to outfit a
couple thousand people, and we could have one hundred percent coverage of the United
States with just the personnel that MUFON has. I think they have about ten
thousand members now we could have twenty four hour daylight and nighttime coverage just with
the personnel they have as members. Wow. A question that just popped up
a little while ago on the message board. What do you think these UFOs
are? There's a question we all are trying to get the answer to.
Well, based on the information available to me and based on my personal experience,
I was born in Missouri sixty seven years ago. So the show me
principle is very important to me. I don't believe anything unless I have some
pretty good evidence to support my belief. But looks to me as though we
are dealing with spacecraft that do not originate from this planet. They appear to
be under intelligent control, and therefore I conclude they're being controlled by alien life
forms, probably very intelligent, very capable, alien life forms. And why
they're not showing themselves overtly, although that appears to be changing to a degree,
But why they're not landing on every golf course in America and saying,
teach us the game of golf is unclear to me, and it worries me
a little bit that both the aliens and our government do not want the American
people thinking about this phenomenon. That is what I mentioned earlier, the possibility
of collusion between an alien life force, an alien civilization, and a government.
In this case, I'm alluding to the US government. When I look
at what the government is doing to us instead of for us, I get
very concerned. It's almost as if their actions are geared to some future event
that they know is going to take place. And the debt that we've accumulated
is a case in point. You know, if typical game theory tells you
that if a meteor is going to strike the planet Earth and destroy it tomorrow
afternoon, the most logical thing for a person to do is borrow as much
money as you possibly can and have the time of your life. Conversely,
from the standpoint of the lenn the lender's most rational path is to lend as
much as he can, because if there's going to be no tomorrow, there's
no point in having money in your bank account. So it's almost as if
these people in our government are acting predicated on some kind of future event that
they know about, but you and I do not. That worries me.
What do you think about the Aligash case? Very interesting case, I agree,
and I just want to want to mention something about this. It ties
in basically, I got to meet Jim Wiener and Charles Foltz, but I
never met there's two other people involved, of course, But I listened to
an interview that Alejandro Rojas did with with Jack Wiener and it was really really
a good interview. I suggest anyone look it up on open Minds. So
as a pad post past podcast, but in it, you know, toward
the end, he basically says that, he says, well, I've never
you know, said this before, but you know, I basically was given
the message that it will be revealed and I will be part of it,
you know, And to me, as far out as that sounds, I
still think that is one of the solid cases. And I'm right, I'm
right. I believe those guys, you know. I mean that was just
I sat across and talked to them personally, and it's just it's like Travis
Walton, I get that, and I think, you know, if that's
true, that that's really interesting because you know, he's a he's a man
in his early sixties, so you never know, we may see something in
our lifetime as possible. Yeah, my understanding is one of the Alligash isn't
he isn't it referred to as the Alligash five. I believe recollection. I
believe it's four, but might be I could be wrong, could be wrong.
One of them, I think is going to be a Newport, Rhode
Island, on the twelfth and thirteenth of July for a UFO gathering. I
was invited to it. And unfortunately was not able to attend. But I
believe I recall that one of the Alligash I'm going to call them abductees,
one of the Alligash abductees, is going to be at that gathering at Newport,
Rhode Island here in a couple of weeks or so. I see.
Okay, there, there's a lot of people in the message words just to
let you know that really like like what you're doing, and someone just posted
on there. When you retire, it's going to be a huge loss.
I thought you'd got to hear that. Well, thank you. My gratitude
to you and for having had me on and to all your loyal listeners and
people who follow this phenomenon. From my vantage point, it appears to be
a very real phenomenon, and if it's real, it's important to all of
us and to all living things on this planet. I feel so. I
appreciate the kind words. And if people are not able to get their messages
into the message board today, they can just send me an email. I'd
be happy to respond to their queries and to the time permitting. Right now,
I'm in severe overload. People may wonder how I managed to do it.
Well, typically I work or am on call two shifts a day,
seven days a week. That's the only way I can handle the volume of
email and reports and media requests and interviews. It's a lot of work,
but it's, in my opinion, very important work. I wouldn't want the
government to be the exclusive source of information about the UFO phenomenon. They're lying
through their teeth, and I don't trust them anymore. Have you. Someone
had asked me one time, this is someone outside of the UFO field.
When I brought up kind of what you just said or something similar, they
said, just give me one fact that will prove that the government's been lying
to us about UFOs. If you oppose that question, what would you say
to that person? Just I would encourage that person to get his or her
own information by talking to senior officers, people who've been in positions of considerable
responsibility in the military. Talk to talk to astronauts. Edgar Mitchell is a
case in point. Gordon Cooper another case in point. I once wrote Alan
Shephard, he and I grew up in the same town, East Terry,
New Hampshire. Oh, I didn't know that he was raised in East Derry,
he went to Pinkerton Academy, the same high school that was the third
high school I attended and graduated from. But he and I were graduates of
the same high school and residents of the same town. He didn't respond,
Unfortunately. I sent him a bunch of material on what I was doing and
pointed out that we were both from East Derry and graduates of the same high
school. But that was close to the end of his life, so he
may have had other considerations. Oh, absolutely so, Peter, were right
near the end. Right here again, If you want to give out your
website, and if you'd like to for the people on the message board,
if you want to give out your email address or you've got go ahead.
If anybody is listening to us who's had a UFO sighting and they haven't reported
it, we can do so using the online report form a blank online fill
in the box type report form at ufocenter dot com. My email address if
they have personal messages for me. Email address is director at ufocenter dot com.
And our hotline is area code two zero six seven two two three thousand,
So website is ufocenter dot com. Email is director at ufocenter dot com.
And the hotline is two zero six seven two two three thousand, been
in continuous operation for almost forty one years now. Amazing. Well, thanks
so much, Peter. That's the end of the show. Well, thank
you very much for the invitation that it's been delightful and it seems like about
a fifteen minute show, but sure I could talk to you for a lot
longer than that. Well, I want to thank everyone for helping out with
the show tonight. Alahan to a Rojas, I want to thank him for
joining us for the news again, that's going to be live from here on
out. I want to thank Peggy Shining for managing the Facebook page. Like
us on Facebook for all the latest UFO news. Next week we have Israel
Curiel from North Carolina. He's a Moufon spokesperson there. He'll be on And
I think that's about it for us tonight. Thank you all for listening and
we'll see you next week. If you're listening now, you are a supporter
of the show and I want to thank you for that. And you can
listen live every week on the Dark Matter Digital Network.