Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro
Rojas, and I have a great show today. However, to start the
show off and to talk some news I do have with me, mister Martin
willis a podcast UFO. No. Hello, how's it going? Good?
Good? Good good good? So in the air is in the air.
I know it's great. The weather is getting better and everything's looking up for
at least weatherwise. But and I've got a show. So I've been gone
for a few weeks. I apologize to the audience for that, but there
was vacation time. And you know what I want I really wanted to focus
on, and that's where I got my guests is a Scientific Coalition for Ufology,
that conference that went on the AAPC. Some of you know, I've
been involved with the SCU and so I really wanted to focus on that and
what was going on there, to digest it and to capitalize as much as
possible on this event. And this event became, you know, to me,
more important than I even thought. But we'll talk about that first,
though, I want to talk to you about my guest. My guest is
doctor Kevin Kanuth. He is from the Department of Physics, a professor there,
an associate professor at the University of Albany also known as SUNNI the State
University of New York, so kind of a big deal. And he has
also worked at NASA as a NASA Research scientist. He's a professor of physics.
He teaches space all kinds of really cool stuff and he had a great
talk. So we're going to talk to him about science and the UFO topic,
and then we're also going to talk to him about this kind of idea
that he put forward in the conference. It has to do with kind of
space time when it deals with space travel, and this idea of how time
may be very different for whatever may be visiting us. So from that perspective,
it could answer some of the questions as to why what we see when
it comes to the phenomena is so enigmatic. So we'll talk about that with
our discussions with Kevin. But he was so great, he was a great
presenter. The SEU is going to have his talk up eventually here as a
prepare it. But it was really good. Wow, I can't wait to
listen this. I love this kind of stuff. I can't wait to listen
You know there was another. There have been, in my opinion, very
few very serious science oriented conferences, and you and I met at one in
North Carolina. That's where we first met. And I think Leslie Kane was
kind of the main person to organize as speakers, and of course she's very
credible. She's behind the December seventeenth, twenty seventeen article that you know,
the Pentagon thing came outeenth sixteenth, right, and so she was the perfect
person to put this together for Ken Center, who was part of MUFON over
there, and that was a really great event, but this felt like that,
if not better. It was a very science oriented, small group,
very intimate, but it was really incredible to have such a high level of
credibility of experience. You know, some of these speakers had multiple PhDs,
and to be talking seriously about this topic, ideas around this topic and how
to move forward, and then to have Louise Eleazondo there to also share this
information with these guys to add to that conversation, and how put off was
there the whole time. It was. Yeah, it was a really incredible
event, very important, and you know, there'll be more information coming out
about the talks as time goes on. Wow, I really wish I could
have gone there. I yeah, so I got I was contacted by a
few people that were going and I really wanted to go, but I had
just got back from you know, six weeks away. So yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's right. So but we do have some of our listeners,
you know, we're there, so others have shared and you know,
Kevin and I go over this. There's been a little bit of criticism because
there has been some information that has gotten out and the SEU has been like,
hey, guys, you didn't have permission to get that information out,
so please don't share that, which is a completely fair thing to ask.
So there have been people frustrated with that, saying, hey, you know,
they're trying to edit this information or at least be controlling with the information.
And you know what, people, that's how professional organizations work. Really.
Pretty much every event I go to I'm invited at for press some of
these cool things that I get to go to, you know, NASA facilities
and stuff. There's always information that is embargoed. Information I can't share for
maybe a few days, maybe a few weeks, maybe a few months.
And then there's often information that they want off the record, and so you
can't share that at all. And of course, you know with me speaking
with all of these different individuals, the more I guess professional, the more
credibility or kind of the more like Alexander talked about with risk aversion, the
more professional the person, the more sensitive an area they're in, the less
they're gonna they're gonna be more careful about the way they speak with this because
they don't want to hurt credibility amongst their peers. And so Kevin and I
talk about this and working and writing with scientists, and we often have these
discussions when I have these meetings with scientists and stuff off the record discussions.
There's there's a difficulty they have with working with the media because their information is
is you know, they can't get it misconstrued. When you're a journalist,
if you get something they say wrong, that can have a very big effect
on them because you know it may get out there that you know, this
scientist is misrepresenting their work or doesn't understand the science correctly, and then they
lose credibility. So it can have it can be very impactful. So when
you're working with these sorts of people. How you release and what you release
is extremely important, and at least it's my position at the SCU that we'd
be very strict about it because we want to make this safe environment for scientists.
So that's why that information is meetered. And to be completely honest,
and I don't mean to be disrespectful for anybody listening who shared information they shouldn't
have. It is actually very unprofessional not to get permission to share information before
you share it. You know, if you're truly trying to help this cause,
you'll definitely want to do that because some of these people, like our
guests today, they may, you know, we may share something that is
very detrimental to their career and then they'll never want to participate in this topic
again because they don't feel there's a safe professional space for them to do this
work in. So that's why it's so important that that information be carefully managed.
We give a quick example of what type of information was shared that shouldn't
have been well, not details of it, just something they said or I'll
say this. I'll say, well, here's for instance, Alexander didn't really
want the Q and A shared because he shared most of this is not necessarily
around being inaccurate, but he was kind of I think teetering on the edge
of what he can share as far as the History Channel show that's coming up,
and we'll talk about that in a minute. But also he commented on
personal you know, things about his family and stuff that he really didn't want
to share because as we all know, as you and I know, everything
we say on these shows is scrutinized and anything that we say can be used
in social media to attack us or make fun of us or what have you.
And it's unfortunate. It's not justified, nor is it professional or even
you know, copasetic in any way. But there's a lot of mean people
out there on the internet. So and there has been blowback in personal kind
of effects that he has experienced from people just being very cruel, you know,
and then the family seeing this and being like, oh my gosh,
what are these people saying about my dad or something? You know, you
probably get that, you know, I know, I feel, you know,
what are people I rarely see people saying something bad about you in particular,
but certainly other colleagues, you know, you hate it. That's when
I get more man when people are being mean or unjustified and bashing you know,
some of our friends and or colleagues or other people in this field.
So that's the sort of thing. But otherwise, you know what can even
hurt more. And we'll get into this with Kevin actually and get into this
topic and what he's written in just a minute when we get into the news.
But I'll kind of talk about this some more, and Kevin and I
will talk about it some more too later in the show. Yes, well,
SCU wise though, because you weren't there are there any questions I can
answer? Were there any like burning questions you were, like, I wonder
if this happened or that happened. Yes, I know they discussed or Robert
Powell discussed the Nimmet's case. But were there other cases that were discussed in
depth like that. No, that's a great question. Well I shouldn't say
that. Yes, there were two cases that in particular that were covered because
they've been thoroughly researched by the SCU and that was the Aguedilla case, the
Puerto Rico homeland security video case, and then also the Nimets case because,
as you know, because you're one of the one of the few people.
Roberts even told me he would rather wait for the report to come out to
talk about it. Uh, and we will have a video up eventually to
talk about, you know, the findings that Robert Powell and Peter Reality came
up or Relatti I keep messing up his last name, but I came up
with but yeah, so it's just mostly those two cases. Otherwise it was
more general. So like for instance, with Kevin he kind of like his
analysis of time, space and spaceflight and how that would affect perspectives. Or
you know another Taylor, Travis Taylor, really you know, charismatic guy.
He came up and talked about he's got two PhD's, talked about what if
aliens attacked what would we do? And this is something he's written a big
book on. So it is speculation, but it's you know, he's really
done a thorough analysis like we would do with a you know, a foreign
adversary and what might happen. So really interesting stuff there too. What that
would be interested to know what his thoughts are if alien attacked us? What
will we do? Great talk, So we'll have that up at the SEU
site. I would join them, Hi for one welcome our new alien overlords.
Yeah, yeah, you would, I would. Yeah. All right.
So before we get into that, let's talk news. So what would
you like to start off with, Buddy, Well, you know, it's
not news so much, it's just an interesting story. It's in Forbes and
Aidan Gillen from the new you know, Project Blue Book not so new several
times. First season's over, and you know what, he's a great actor.
I think he did well personally with Heinek. You made him very likable.
I do have my criticisms of the show, and my final review is
going to be posted any second now, by the way, so i'll share
that accuracy was out the window. You know, it's got worse his time
went on, but it was still an entertaining show. And I think Aiden
gill did great. What did you think? I think, you know,
he's absolutely he just becomes such a focus and such a you know, you
want to like him exactly. Yeah, And you know, I think he's
great. I think he did. I think he did the part really well,
and I think he really took care to make sure he did. You
know, when I spoke with Dave Old Larry, he'd say that he get
a call from what would your dad do if this happened? You know,
that type of thing. So he really did have you know, he really
had care to do the portraying as accurate as possible in a given situation.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Anyway, the story is called that
he talked to UFOs in his new show Project Blue Book and Pardon Me,
and so it talks about the ten episode drama series based on renowned as physicists
astrophysic doctor Joseph I didn't know that was his first name, Jay Allen Heinick,
who studied UFOs, and it had quickly become one of the top shows
of the year, which I think that's pretty nice. I think it was
in three something million viewership or something like that. It probably even says it
somewhere in this story. So it basically talks about the relation of the UFOs
reported through the United States Air Force from nineteen fifty two to nineteen sixty nine,
over twelve thousand of them were reported. But it talks again, it
starts getting into the Irish actor and by the way, he really lost his
accent very well, Aidan Gillen, And they say in this article that they
think he brilliantly plays doctor Heinick, and of course you'd remember him from little
Finger from Game of Thrones if you ever watched that. So in a phone
interview, he discussed how it differs portraying a real person as a post as
a fictional character. He says, it's both daunting and exciting, though more
so exciting, and it is the first time he's delving into a real person
on screen. But he explains the you know, the differences and all that.
So they go on to ask him about UFOs and is he a believer
or not, and he says, I'm quoting here. I've seen a couple
of things, he says. He describes a time when he was with friends
and they saw something in the sky they couldn't explain, and he said,
this wasn't long after seeing the nineteen seventy seven classic Close Encounters of the Third
kind. We were all kids and we saw something inexplicable. It was also
at a time that we were really looking for something, and I totally understand
that. Also, he adds that his mother saw something in the nineteen fifties
in rural I learn, and that was a time when UFOs were the topic
of conversation on TV and on the radio, and people were really looking for
them and wanted to see them. And he believes that it's quite improbable that
we that were alone in the universe, which is wait a minute, did
I read that wrong. Yeah, I believe that it's quite improbable, I'm
sorry, improbable that we're alone in the university. Yeah, he said it
kind of strangely, but you got it. Yeah, And it's highly likely
that there are other civilizations. I think most people in our society today are
feeling that way as time goes on more and more. I would really love
to talk to him like I did with Michael Malarkey. Michael Malarkey, for
instance, didn't think much about the topic really, and then when he got
involved with the show and he read like roupelt Books, the blue Book chief
who wrote a book on you know, Project blue Book, he was like,
Oh my gosh, you know, there's just so much evidence that there's
a real phenomena here that his involvement with the show is what convinced him.
And I wonder if that's the same way with Aidan Gillen. It seems as
though, but I wonder if it is. Well, he had a little
bit of a jump on the topic that to begin with, Yeah, with
his sightings. True. Yeah, So that's a great article in Forbes,
right, So a couple other articles, actually, I have a couple of
articles that kind of answer your question too to how does you know how can
information get misconstrued? So we have this article from Kevin Kanouth my who we're
going to hear from in just a second at least about him, that came
out fairly recently, and the title is ex NASA scientist says that UFOs are
real and the government covers up alien life. That's the Tech Times headline,
which is completely inaccurate. They're talking about Kevin Kanuth And what happened is,
for you know, UFO day in June second, I think or July second
is the day there was someone who asked, you know, they were asked
that the university would someone like to write an article about UFOs, and he
said, sure, I'll do it. So he wrote an article for the
Conversation and the title is are we alone? The question is worthy of Syria
serious scientific study. So he's making an argument here that we should take the
potential, you know, the UFO phenomena seriously and look at it and it's
a great article. This article actually originally came out in like June of twenty
eighteen, and then I think because he was speaking at SEU, there's been
you know, the tabloids even picked up this story and wrote about him recently.
So but they did kind of, you know, get things right.
And that's the hard part. He is not saying there's a major cover up.
In fact, if you read his original story, he says by not
sharing information, it makes it look like there's a cover up. And he
also says by scientists who are skeptical coming up with ridiculous debunking theories for UFO
incidents, he says that also hurts and gives the impression that there's a major
conspiracy because you and I complain about that often that you know, the skeptics
will say, oh, I can answer A, A and B out of
a whole list of seven or eight, you know, pertinent facts, and
so they can blow it off because they feel they can answer one or two
aspects. Right, it was venus, because it's in the sky right right.
It's one of the frustrations, you know, even with the Aguadilla report,
you know, this is what there was a light coming out from the
ocean over towards this airport in Puerto Rico. The Homeland Security guys are actually
border patrol essentially that oh is this a drug runner? It looked low.
They aim their camera on it and they get this object. The light turns
off, but they can see the object in their flair, you know,
at night, they're infrared essentially, so uh, you know, but a
lot of people throw that out the window and say, oh, and this
infrared, I can tell this, I can tell that, But they throw
out the witness testimony and the reason why they're looking in the first place.
It's an example of how, you know, if you don't take all the
information, then you're not really examining the entire facts of the case. You
know, did they did they talk about that from the beginning, because I
had they did heard that part of it a month ago about the light.
Well here's well, here's the other issue, and this is the other This
is another example why you need to be careful with the way you get out
information. In fact, Elizondo said something great, uh, and I love
it. He said, you know, we're not here to satisfy idle curiosity.
Set I understand you guys want people out there want information as quickly as
possible, and we want to get it to people as quickly as possible,
but not at the detriment of the case or what we're trying to accomplish here.
We're not going to, you know, to jeopardize the case to satisfy
idle curiosity. And I totally agree with that, because this is an example
with Agua da. If you don't have all of the pieces of information in
total, then the case isn't as substantial. And that was something that I,
you know, I think that just gets lost in conversation. People don't,
you know, take a step back. Here's another example. I tweet
it and and it was being a little bit on rate that Alessander said a
tip was one hundred UFOs. Because some people are doubting out that out there
because they say, well, we don't have a government document that says that.
Well, so what I mean, here's why nobody cares. Here's why
only these really kind of honore people in the UFO community. Someone will get
frustrated with me saying this, but this is the truth. Here's why they're
the only ones who care. Because we have the guy who created got the
funding for the program, saying, yep, and we created this program.
I sought this funding to investigate the paranormal, including UFOs. We have lou
Elizondo who ran the program. It's verified he's ran the program, saying this
was one hundred percent UFOs. We have help put of and other BASS employees
who were contractors with the project, saying, yes, we were looking in
UFOs. What more do you need? These are the people working in the
project. They've already explained how when they described the project or when they you
know, the project goals on paper had to be enigmatic because they didn't want
people to bash them for being some kind of UFO group, so they had
to kind of hide the wording or play with their wording. So it wasn't
obvious. It's obvious that we wouldn't you know that we're seeing what we're seeing
in these documents, given we need more documents, and it's always good to
be skeptical, but you know, for the for the common sense person out
there and for the media. Okay, we have it confirmed from everybody involved
with this program, high level credible people that it was UFOs. Fine,
it's UFOs. Now, what are the critics saying that they're essentially saying that
the documents don't say UFOs. They use terms like advanced aerial threat, you
know, identification of foreign threats all of this, which is you know,
veiled terminology for what is a foreign threat and unknown object is also a foreign
threat, so which is what Alizondo said, And you know, we investigated
those in particularly looking for those which exhibited technology or performance that we can't achieve
ourselves, right But anyway, yeah, so that's that's sort of the problem
that gets in there. But it's a great art. Another example of this
is a is a Montana Tech professor who recently talked about how hypothesized that UFOs
could be from the future. What is the headline? Mt Tech professor claims
UFOs are time machines from the future. What is his quote? His quote
is that it's potential, that it's a possibility. He's not saying they are.
In fact, he even says it may be, so he's it's just
this is an example where you know, their words, even a slight change
can have a problem. But this is a really interesting article about this professor
who is saying, you know, this could be a possibility and What's great
about the article more so is he saying, you know, we as professors
and scientists and academics need to take a look at this field. And you
know there could be some answers like this. How interesting would this be if
you know we're witnessing people from the future. So another great article. And
I'm gonna go through these other ones really quickly because we've ran out of time.
But there's one in an article in a website called The Outline belief in
aliens could be America's next religion, something I've been talking about too and I
love. And this is based on Diana Pasuka, her new book that came
out kind of talking about some of this stuff. Really interesting article a war
history online article about Foo fighters. So this is really cool researched article on
that. And this is a Forbes article. So at the same time as
our event in Alabama for the SEU, there was another somewhat similar event happening
in France and Paris, and this is something that happens yearly. It was
actually Monday the eighteenth where a bunch of scientists got together to talk about aliens
and UFOs in particular, scientists meet to investigate the great silence. In other
words, you know Fermi's paradox, why are we not seeing aliens? And
a lot of these scientists are seriously hypothesizing things like the zoo hypothesis that they're
just coming here to look at us, or a galactic quarantine that we are
dirty apes and we, you know, can't be trusted to go out there
in space. So, you know, just another scientific conference where they're looking
at these things that happen in Paris. So this is a great Forbes article.
And then finally, you all may have seen the last episode of Project
Bluebook and it was about the Washington d C siding. So there's some great
articles that even quote myself that the History Channel had put out there on the
nineteen fifty two encounters over Washington, and those are good. These History Channel
articles are well researched, They are fact based, even if the show isn't.
So the History articles are great and I highly recommend people read those articles.
I think they do a pretty good job of covering all the UFO cases,
the real ones that were in the television shows. And you know,
there are allusions to other UFO cases in the Project blue Book show. And
if you want more about those, You're going to have to read my reviews
because I don't think everybody catches those other UFO stuff. And I know David
O'Leary, the writer, is a UFO buff, so he is definitely aware
of what he's doing when he makes these other references. So there's probably many
I miss, but at least the once I catch I write about and provide
information on in my reviews. And I'll have my last review coming out real
soon here. Great, Wow, we really went over time. Interesting news,
Tom, It's great yeah packed full mm hm, well, thank you
so much for joining us. You're very welcome, my pleasure. Let's go
ahead and talk with Professor Kevin Knout. I am very happy to welcome for
the first time to the show, Kevin Kanouth. And am I saying that
correctly? Yes, that's correct. It's the Scandinavian pronunciation, so that's right,
Thank you. Okay, great, So there are other types of pronunciations
as well, huh English? Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, it's
great to have you on. It was very great to see you at the
SEU Scientific Coalition for Ufology conference. All of the names and everything are a
mouthful. The anomalous Aerospace Phenomena conference, and I guess we could start off
there. So you are a scientist, a professor, and one of the
things that we got a lot of feedback for they had feedback for putting together
the conference was the naming and really a lot of advice to shy away from
and stay away from the term UFO, And I was wondering, you know,
is that something you would recommend as well. So they use this term,
you know, anomalous aerospace phenomena, which is great, it's an accurate
term. But do you see that issue I mean with your colleagues. Yeah,
potentially. The terminology is always difficult because some terms carry a lot of
extra baggage, or sometimes in science they'll have a common meaning which isn't quite
the same as the scientific meaning, and that can lead to confusion in some
cases. So so I don't know. I think that you know, UFO
is a pretty charged term at this point, and it might help to come
up with more precise monology, and then it might not. Now in your
experience now, especially online, this is kind of interesting. I wonder if
you saw this. People seem to be very concerned about you and your reputation
getting hurt or you having to kind of hide from your interest or your participation
in this conference, worried that you know, you may suffer negative repercussions in
your career. Did you have those fears or concerns. I've I have had
those concerns, and I would continue to have those concerns. My I have
a pretty solid reputation at this point in international reputation, so I would hope
that that would carry some weight. And my interests in this have always been
clear. So I think that this is something that should be studied. I
don't have any statements about, you know, as to what the solutions are
yet, so and I think that scientists should study things. I think it's
that simple. Mm. Well, and you have or at least there are
a lot of important people, I will say, or other scientists kind of
coming out, and it seems like we have this environment where scientists feel a
little more comfortable to go to the potential alien explanation, for example, what
you refer to the dice in sphere. And there's been a lot of talk
about you know, Tabby's star, the Omamua thing that came through you know,
the Harvard scientists suggesting it could be alien spacecraft. It seems like there
is a little bit more of an acceptance of, at least entertaining the idea
that there could be other civilizations out there trying to come take a look at
us. Yeah, I think that's correct, and I think there's a good
reason for it. If you think about the near nineteen forty seven, which
is when Kenneth Arnold, you know, saw saucers near Mount Rainier, the
what was nineteen forty seven, like, well, this was ten years before
Sputnik, and in fact, even two weeks before Sputnik you had the you
know, the Royal Astronomer in Britain declared that space travel was bunk. And
that was two weeks before Sputnick. So ten years before Sputnik we hadn't really
we still weren't really considering space travel as a serious possibility. Not everyone was
sure it was physically possible. We didn't have a great deal of knowledge about
what the planets in our Solar system were like, and we didn't know at
all whether there were any other planets around any other stars. We assumed there
probably were, but we didn't have any information about that at all. So
nineteen forty seven, the idea that there could be advanced civilizations from other star
systems visiting Earth was just almost off the table. We just didn't have that
kind of knowledge and that our worldview wasn't prepared to accept something like that.
Now you fast forward, what is it, seventy years or so to this
point in time, and now we're looking at we ourselves have visited other planets,
you know, We've put men on the Moon, We've launched probes to
the major bodies in our Solar System, and we've got you know, two
space probes, the two Voyager the craft and the Pioneer craft actually are both
leaving the Solar System at this point. And moreover, we have plans ourselves
to visit the nearest star. We're aiming to get to Alpha century by twenty
sixty nine. This is one of the goals that NASA has, so so
where we are working toward interstellar travel ourselves and more even you know, and
to add to that, we also now have knowledge about planets around other stars
and we're learning about them. So I think the situation's changed and we now
have a better picture of what the universe is like and realize that, you
know, we are a civilization that really is attempting to do this, and
we have had some success at this point, so it's not unreasonable to accept
the possibility that there may be other civilizations out there that may have tried to
do this as well, with varying degrees of success. And another aspect to
it that I think actually is important and it may seem silly, but you
know, being a journalist who's gotten covered a lot of science and NASA,
this is a this is kind of a big deal. Is how do we
outreach to the public. And it's it's fun, like, for instance,
when you're presenting about this and making your postulations or you know, it's fun
to think about this stuff and it does serve a scientific purpose also it's speculation
based on science. Yeah, it is fun and I think, you know,
this is how this is how breakthroughs are made. You know, you
go back to you know, the late eighteen hundreds when Robert Goddard was in
his cherry tree and was thinking about launching, you know, run launching his
model rockets and imagine what would it look like to have a rocket that would
launch from this meadow and go to Mars. You know, it's a fun
thing. To speculate. But what did that lead to? That led to
the development of liquid fuel rockets, which led to the Moon missions and man
Mars missions. You know, at this point where we have groups now seriously
considering considering the possibility of colonizing Mars, and so this is one hundred years
later, so I think these you know, imagination is an important part of
you know, that drives our interest in science now. Now, of course
imagination effects our advancement, not necessarily that of anyone else, but it could
serve to inform us as to how to perhaps detect spacecraft moving through our interstellar
space from star to star, and how to look for civilizations on other worlds
and things like this. And this is interesting. Another question I have for
you before we move into kind of the topic of your presentation at the event
was at the AAPC, the Anomalous Aerospace Phenomena Conference. I guess what was
it like for you For those of us who have been involved. I've been
involved with helping this organization grow from the beginning, and for us it was
very exciting to have There have been scientific oriented organizations before, but what's great
about this group is it's a lot of doers, people who have been in
the business, that to say, for decades working on this mystery. But
also they in the past, the scientists involved with this field have not been
enthusiastic about sharing information more of research. But what's great about this group is
it's more looking towards also sharing information with the public, which is exciting.
So it was an exciting event for us and great to have you involved.
How was it for you? Oh? Well, I was very very excited
about it, very interested in attending and meeting some of the people there to
find out what work has actually been done, what data has actually been gathered,
what the possibilities are for future investigations. And I was glad to be
surrounded by scientists, people who are actually studying, interested in studying this and
actually using a careful methodology to look at the data at hand, as sparse
as it is. And I had several interesting conversations of what could be done
next, and and I look forward to working on some of this. Was
any of the information surprising to you, you know, just as an outsider,
especially related to Luis Alisondo, and that you know the Pentagon was working
on some of this and what they were looking at. Uh, yeah,
some of that was quite surprising. He mentioned a few things I think during
the Q and A that will be coming out in May during the History Channels
docu series. So so I don't want to mention anything specific, but but
I was kind of shocked as to some of the encounters that you know,
he described, and and I would it would be very exciting to get some
real data on that, to get high quality visual images as well as in
FRED images and radar data and possibly in spectra that that would be very exciting.
And so I'm hoping at some point that that that's some of that data
will be released mm hm. And I guess when you when you see that,
I guess, how does it make you feel as a scientist someone interested
in space. I mean, it would seem like you would be as excited
as the rest of us says. It's pretty exciting. It's exciting, but
at the same time, it's frustrating. I at this point they are let's
see, I don't I don't quite want to use this word, but because
it's not not quite accurate, but they there's still stories, still stories that
you hear from people. Now, these are very reliable people, people who
you know if they're if they're joking around or lying, it's costing us,
you know, tens of thousands of dollars easily, maybe millions of dollars.
So it's a big deal. So they are people I would I would tend
to believe. But but they're pretty fantastic stories when you are, you know,
pretty fantastic accounts when you when you really get down to it, you
you know, you get an idea of what speeds these things are moving at
through the air, but you don't have any sonic booms. You know,
they can come to a sudden stop, and you don't have a heat dump,
which you you would expect to have. In fact, Peter really and
his talk estimated the amounts of energy involved and you're talking, you know,
several kilotons of T and T going off per second, you know for some
of these craft, which you know, those were his estimates, which I
think are are you know, they're ballpark estimates, but they're they're about about
what you would expect for this type of behavior. So so the accounts are
surprising and and so yes, it's very exciting at one level, but as
a scientist, it's also frustrating because as I would like to see real data.
I'd like to see, you know, radar data so that you can
get much more precise estimates of the velocities and accelerations and things like that.
Which makes sense, That makes perfect sense. And then I guess one last
comment on the conference itself is for to encourage the participation or to make it
kind of a safe space for someone like your yourself, who's who's you know,
embedded in the scientific community and academic community. How do uh, how
do we make a safe space for for people like yourself uh to speak on
this topic, because obviously you've put some thought towards it. Your your presentation
showed that it's difficult to do. I think that one of the one of
the things that I saw happening was that information was being released pretty much immediately
from the conference to the internet. The Internet, as we all know,
is a pretty hostile place for pretty much anybody, and so so it's,
you know, you can't control the information once it's released onto the internet,
and so it's a difficult balance. You've got people who really want to know,
you know, and and share this information, and I really appreciate that,
But at the same time, you have if you want scientists to speak
and tell you what they know, you have to make them feel secure.
Now, the different the difficulty is that different scientists are going to feel differently
and and people are going to feel Some people are going to be more more
willing and more open, you know, to talk about what they believe and
what they they have figured out, and other people are going to mean more
reticent. And I think it's the first thing to do is to really respect
those differences and not second guess them and judge them. I think that this
the public community has come to believe that everything is some kind of secret conspiracy
and that there's that there's always some ulterior, nefarious motive behind you know,
somebody's statements. And I think that's that's difficult. It's in the long run,
it's going to they're going to shoot themselves in the foot because if you
want people to be open, you need to make them comfortable and listen to
them. So I think that's really all there is to it. I think
that you make a really good point, and what you're saying is important because
one of the things that we have been experiencing is this, you know,
people being excited to release information and releasing it without permission or prior to when
they were supposed to do, which is one of the reasons that the group,
you know, was so careful with who was coming in and that that
area. So I think the group has to be more careful with the sharing
of the information, and it's lessons learned. But you make a great point,
and I think that it'll be incoming on us, and I think my
listeners will understand to go the route you're talking about being more careful with the
information, even if it frustrates the audience, because I've learned this too as
a journalist. When you cover scientists, it's it's extremely difficult, and I
think that's why so many journalists get it wrong. They just don't have the
patience to work with scientists, and scientists don't always make it easy because they
are very careful about the way that their information. That the communicating scientific information,
especially when it comes to research or theory, is so nuanced and complicated,
and one misstep can cause a very big misunderstanding, which causes problems.
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. And in fact, if you go
back and read earlier scientific papers, even from the early nineteen hundreds, so
read a paper by Einstein or something like this, and actually read his paper,
you find that what the scientists that in the day used to do is
there used to be speculation. They used to speculate, so they would they
would present their results and do it very carefully and correctly, and then the
discussion section at the end would usually lapse into speculation on what things might be
like or what they believe. And science has moved away from that. In
fact, that's any any speculation in a paper is very quickly, very quickly
criticized by reviewers and we're not really allowed to We're really not. They really
discouraged that type of behavior at this point. So so now you get into
a situation where you know, you you put a scientist in public and a
Q and a section session and you ask them, well, what do you
think, Well, I'm going to some of that is speculation, and a
careful scientist, you know, is going to you say, well, let
me speculate or this is speculation. But very quickly it you know, when
this stuff is just released without those you know, those nuanced indications, then
then it can become very problematic, right right, And it's also it's also
difficult to respond on the fly like that. I think that, you know,
when writing a scientific paper, preparing a talk, it really does take
you take you a good period of time to make sure that every statement you're
making is correct and is worded to say exactly what you wanted to say.
I have always called that making papers bulletproof. I have a colleague in England
who calls it making them bomb proof. I guess he writes better papers than
I do. But but you, you, you really do put the time
into make sure that that you know, no one can criticize you for the
statements you're making. You know, but when you're being asked questions, you
know, in a Q and a session, ordering a talk, or or
you know at dinner conversation at a table, the situation is very different.
It's hard to put those it's hard to make careful statements that are going to
be immune from criticism. And then also, yeah, and like you said
earlier, kind of taken out of context. And one of the perpetrators that
the U Kate tabloids, bless their hearts, do all not always get the
facts straight. Uh, you know, they try to sensationalize in and for
instance, you've had an experience, and I was wondering how your experience went.
Where they wrote an article about you and your ideas. Yes, I
had, well, I had written a piece for an online journal called The
Conversation last uh, last June or so a year ago. They had contacted
our immediate department actually and wanted a physicist to write a piece on UFOs,
and so I agreed that I would do that, and basically I wrote an
opinion piece basically stating that scientists should study these things. That's really all that
I said in the in the in the paper. And I spent four days
writing that paper. So I spent a lot of effort in writing it and
had it proof read by you know, several of my colleagues before submitting it,
and I was and once once it was out, I was surprised at
how much press it got. And then I was surprised at how you would
have articles written about my article and so so, despite the fact that I
carefully worded things and was very careful in my statements, the articles written about
my article were you know, much more highly speculative and made some statements about
what I had said that I didn't really say. You know, For instance,
I think one headline was that, you know, former NASA scientists says
that government's hiding information on UFOs or something, and I was I remember one
one afternoon, I just buried my head in my hands and I thought,
oh my god, what have I done? This is I've now learned a
very valuable lesson. This is what happens when a scientist steps outside the scientific
community and interacts with the public. And I'm sure that I'm sure politicians feel
this on a daily basis, but I but that's the first day that I
really felt it. And there's nothing you can do about it. I can't
take it back. I can't you know, I can't make a statement to
clarify or correct it. And you just have to let it, let it
go, which is which is a tough thing to do, right. And
I can't remember his name, cause I know it's something like Cosmo, but
the scientists spoke recently at SETI kind of making the same argument you were making,
that it's something that we need to look into at least to keep an
eye you know are Oh, yeah, I was friend. I worked with
him at NASA. Ames yeah, so, and then of course he's he's
kind of like shied away from from speaking at all in the public because his
argument, similar to yours, was completely misconstrued out there, and so much
so that he's just like, well, I'm not going to talk to any
of you anymore. And uh, that's part of the problem that happens.
Yeah, it is, and it's and and it's you know, you can
it's easy to blame the blame the scientists for it, but you know,
they're the ones putting their career on the line doing this and putting the reputation
on the line. So it's a it's a difficult thing, you know,
if you if you want the information, if you want information from somebody,
you have to make it come, make them comfortable to tell you. Yeah,
I agree, And I think our goal is going to be, at
least with with any influence I have, especially being kind of the press guy
with the group, well, default to making the scientists comfortable rather than the
public, just because that's that's who we're trying to get involved in, trying
to make a safe space for Yeah, and I and I think that if
they feel comfortable, they'll tell you. I think we you know, most
scientists are very excited about the work that they do, and you know,
this is what we're interested in, this is what drives us, this is
what we think about twenty four to seven. And I think that we are
Most scientists are eager to share, share their thoughts on the topics that interest
them. So I think that, yeah, that'll go a long way.
So we've got a break coming up here, and then we will get into
what you talked about at the conference, which I find extremely interesting. However,
one last question before we go to break, is you know, having
said what you said earlier about this kind of avoiding speculation, Uh, it
is interesting. And I find it really interesting that papers that come out such
as the Tabby Star. Uh it was actually in that original paper that came
out where they speculated on the potential uh, intelligent civilization or dysent sphere hypothesis.
Yeah, that is interesting and and and I find that I think that
that that speculation is an important part of science. You're you're basically considering potential
hypotheses. And and I think that it's it's not it's not helpful helpful to
to stop scientists from speculator. They should be speculating. That's part of what
we do. And it's good for us to do that out in the open
with other scientists so that there can be a discourse. All right, well,
thank you so much for that discussion. For the first part, we're
going to go take a break real quick here. We'll be back in just
a few seconds. Those of you listening on a radio station, we'll hear
a commercial break. The rest of you will hear a short musical interlude,
and once we're back, we'll be back with Professor Kevin Kanouth to talk more
about UFOs. Welcome back to Open Mind GFO Radio. This is Alejandro Rojas,
your host for the show, and I'm talking to Professor Kevin can and
we're actually going to now get into your talk at the at the AAPC,
which was constrained on breakaway societies engaged in relativistic interstellar travel. And it's funny
you use that framework because I'm not sure if you're aware, but there is
a conspiracy theory about breakaway societies. Have you heard about that. I have
heard about that, and I and I think that's probably where the term originally
originated, or just where it originated. But here I mean something a bit
different, so right, which is really interesting. So I guess to begin
with, you had a quote at the beginning of your your talk which I
think is important. Ah. Yes, it was a quote from Melov and
Matt Love's The Starflight Handbook. Basically it says, interstellar travel may still be
in its infancy, but adulthood is adulthood is fast approaching, and our descendants
was some days childhood's end. So we're really getting close to traveling faster and
faster. And I think this graph than that you showed next was really important,
kind of outlying how fast have we gone, what speeds have we achieved,
and what speeds are we looking at? And you separate two areas.
One area in particular you were looking at was the region of extraordinary propulsion,
And how would you define that that? Let's see, So that graph I
got from a paper by Garcia Escartine and Chamorrow Posada from Acta Astronautica, and
the paper is called Scouting the Spectrum for Interstellar Travelers. And basically they designated
that region of extraordinary propulsion as being a region that basically is an order of
magnitude a factor of ten times faster than the fastest objects we've observed, the
fastest natural objects we've observed. So the fastest objects we've observed are basically hypervelocity
neutron stars that we're observed going about about a half a percent the speed of
light, so so ten times faster than that. You're basically looking at looking
at five percent the speed of light as being the region of extraordinary propulsion.
Those are basically the speeds you need to achieve to be able to perform interstellar
travel to the nearest stars in tens of years basically. And we're breaching this
in that are proposed Orion starship, and assuming this is with the SLS rocket
system, that we will be kind of at the cusp of those areas of
speed. Well, I think the Orion Starship was a was a nuclear fusion
starships, so those were some using nuclear power. I don't think we're quite
at that stage yet, we're I think the fastest object, the fastest propulsion
that's been considered is this are the basically using a laser to shine onto a
small solar sale to accelerate a craft out of the Solar system. And so
some of this this technique's being considered for what does it break through starshot?
I think it's called which is a mission. They're intending to send small cell
phone sized probes to Alpha century. This way, the expected speeds should be
up to about twenty percent the speed of light, So that means you're basically
going to get there in about twenty years twenty year travel time to Alpha century.
And okay, so, which just kind of we're getting close or at
least we're starting to have ideas. Yeah, we're having we have ideas,
and we're trying. So that's that's the good thing. M hm. So
and then to speak kind of, uh, I guess to move this along
to uh, I'll like you kind of bring us there. I guess to
get to your breakaway kind of theory or idea here. Sure, I'm basically
I had you know, growing up watching science fiction, you always have your
heroes, you know, dash off at warp speed or go through hyperspace,
which is effectively faster than light travel, so they can get from one star
system to another and in a short period of time. And basically, I
like to think of it this way. You want to it's it's not a
fun it's not a fun science fiction story. If it takes them fifty years
to get to the to the star system they want to get to, and
then they have to come back because by the time they come back it's one
hundred years later. They're late for dinner, very late for dinner, and
so it doesn't make for a good science fiction tale. So a lot of
science fiction focuses on faster than light travel, and I think that that has
kind of that fact has kind of biased people, even scientists, into believing
that the only way to get to the nearest stars is to go faster than
light. Now, some scientists, some physicists who've really thought about this,
would realize, well, wait a minute, you don't have to go faster
than light. You can go as long as you get up to relativistic speeds.
You get going some reasonable percentage of the speed of light, you find
that relativity works for you. It actually helps you out in that going very
fast, you know, the clocks on the spacecraft will be going moving more
slowly relative to the and the rest of the galaxy. And so while it
may take one hundred years for the ship to travel, you know, some
distance to the nearest star, it will only for the travelers, depending on
how fast they go, it may only take you know, a few days
to months or whatever. It depends. It depends on the speed, so
you A lot of physicists have realized that using relative with relativity will work in
your favor if you get going close to the speed of light. However,
we don't have the technology to do this. There are very serious engineering challenges.
The amount of energy required is insane. The fact that you're going to
be barreling through space at close to the speed of light, You're going to
fly into things, so you need to be able to shield your craft from
that. Space isn't empty. You've got about one hydrogen atom per cubic meter,
and so now when you're traveling at close to relativistic speeds from the perspective
of the traveler, the distances actually get shortened. So this whole the space
between you and the plant and the star system you're heading to, actually shrinks
and it's compressed. But what that does is that means that these these very
diffuse hydrogen atoms in space are basically compressed, and so before you know it,
you're flying through a wall of hydrogen gas at close to the speed of
light, which will tear your ship apart in very short order. So so
I think most scientists who have realized that you could travel from you know,
star to star moving at relativistic speeds. While that physically would work, the
engineering challenges are so so difficult that it's it's not really worth considering that.
And the and the other problem is that for those at home, it's still
going to take you hundreds of years to do it. So I've I've actually
heard a lot of scientists say, so, what's the point? What civilization
would would do this? And I was reading about that once and I actually
came across that statement. You know, it's even if you can go relativistic
speeds, the traveler could could traverse those distances, but it would still take
years for those at home. So what civilization would ever undertake such a challenge?
And I thought, well, it wouldn't be so bad if you were
traveling with your friends, because you just would meet up with your friends again
and then you could you could share information, and so it wouldn't you know,
that would that would work? And then then I realized that you really
would have to if you were an interstellar traveler traveling at relativistic speeds, you
would have to abandon this idea of having a home world because you can't go
home again. It's equivalent really to racing ahead into the future. So I
imagined that, you know, you can still ask the question, what society
would do that? Well, there are societies who who just travel. We
call them nomads. They're nomadic. And would anybody really do that? Well,
you can ask yourself, would anybody really sign up to be part of
SpaceX's Mars Colony project or one way trip to Mars? Yeah, hundreds of
people sign up for that. Of course people would sign up for it.
People are crazy, You'll do all sorts of things. So I thought,
you know, well, these societies you could you could do this if you
were nomadic, this would be really pretty straightforward, as long as you had
the technology, which would have to comforcome those serious engineering challenges. But if
you had that technology, then you know, I could travel off to a
star system thirty light years away. You could travel off to another one thirty
light years away. We could agree to meet back here in a few months,
and for us it would be a few months later. For everybody back
here on Earth it would be sixty years later. But so what who cares
you? And I are me back and that's that was the idea, right,
So it's so interesting space time nomads is what you call them. And
you have this picture of which I think is a perfect picture because it's what
I envisioned. Two. When you first said it is a battlestar Galactica,
that armada, you know, where they were, it was the same thing.
They were a breakaway society looking for somewhere to live, whereas what you're
talking about is more of a society going to be I guess, committed to
exploration and and even though yeah, because they would be on their own if
if they left Earth at these tremendous speeds and then came back, they may
have gone to Alpha Centauri and back. And in their time it only was
a couple of years, but in our time it was it was hundreds of
years. And so that's what why they would be once they left, they're
saying goodbye to the rest of civilization. That's that's right, yep, really,
and it's kind of stunned me. When I started working the numbers,
I was really surprised. I thought, realize that, wow, if you
traveled at if you traveled at one hundred, well, if you traveled at
a one g acceleration, which is the acceleration of gravity. And you could
maintain that acceleration, you could get across the galaxy in about twenty years your
time. And and I thought, wow, that's actually much better than you
know, plans that I've heard on getting at Alpha century. So I was
I was rather surprised that you could traverse those those great distances that quickly.
Now, of course, going from one side of the galaxy to the other,
it's going to you know, for everybody on Earth, it'll take eighty
thousand years for us to get there. You know, a one G acceleration,
and a one G acceleration will put you into speeds well above ninety nine
percent the speed of light, so you'll be going very relativistic at that point.
M Yeah, it's a really interesting idea. And so and what you've
put together like it seems like the precision would have to be very accurate.
So because one thing you reposes at this large group, let's say a Battlestar
Galactica type armata could head out and then some decide to go explore one area,
some explore another, and then they have these meetup points. But right
it would do they have to be extremely precise, like to to the second
or even more. Ah, yeah, they'd have to be relatively precise.
You'd you would have to have, you know, you'd require some dwell time
in the system that you're visiting, you know, to make meetups more probable.
So these either would have to be planned well in advance, or you'd
have to come up with a strategy for for creating a network of traveling paths
that such that the distances are commensurate and you'll end up meeting at meeting every
now and again at certain in certain places. So I started, I basically
started modeling this to see what type of constraints that would put on your your
the topology of the travelers network. And so I'm still I'm still working on
this to see how this could work. But it's pretty cool. You have
this video where you show at least one network that you modeled, where you
know, these crafts kind of all had out from one point and head out
to where they're exploring and then also head back to meet up points and such.
Right, Yeah, So in that example, I just had them travel
to a location and then and then like a caravan to a location and then
the caravan would split up to other locations and continue kind of like a tree
graph, and at every point they could either travel to a new destination or
go back to an old one. And I ran that simulation for two thousand
and thirty years of time in the galaxy and and just to see how this
would work for the travelers. The amount of time that the travelers experienced ranged
from from about eight months to two years, so so, and so it
kind of surprised me that, you know, you've got you don't have that
much dispersion in time, even over a two thousand year time period in the
galaxy. And if they were a little more careful about what star systems they
visited, and they're the distances that they traveled, they don't need to travel
in straight lines. They could ark slightly to increase the path length. If
they made those path links commensurate, then you'd increase the probability of meetups,
which would which would work mm hmm. Now there's a danger if you're late
to a meetup or if you have a breakdown, you're kind of you're out
of the network. I mean, yeah, if you well, if you're
late, if you're late, you can hopefully catch up with somebody at another
meetup at some other point and another system and another time that would be good.
A breakdown would be very bad. So I'd imagine that you'd probably travel
in caravans rather than rather than individually. Traveling as an individual would be extremely
dangerous. If you break down your you are likely not to see anybody you
know from your society for another you know, hundreds of thousands of years,
so you can't just sit around and wait for somebody to help you. It
would depend on it would depend on the density of travelers in the network as
well, So so depending on how many travelers there are, you know,
if you're not traveling in a caravan, would tell you how often new travelers
arrive at a destination. So so while these are all these are basically parameters
in the models that would describe how a society like this would behave and an
interesting uh you bring up some points so for instant that uh you know.
One of the things that we saw at the conference was this estimation of of
what uh speed you know, the object at the two thousand and four Nimits
encounter might have been achieving given the observations of the pilot that David fever and
others. So those are extreme speeds. Those are potential evidence that there might
be somebody out there who's been able to figure out this sort of thing out
and they could be doing what you're talking about, and if they are,
it leads to an interesting perspective on their side, which would, for instance,
as you put it, make it so there's no reason to make friends
with the locals. Right. Yeah, Basically I had to get some idea
of what speeds you might see. I basically estimated some of the accelerations in
some of these cases, including the Nimt's case that Robert Paul and Peter Reality
looked at, and I found the accelerations basically ranging from hundreds of geesleration to
two thousand plus j's of accelerations. So so I think in my models that
I used, I used it about one hundred g acceleration and with you know,
if you if so, if these craft could sustain that kind of acceleration
for a period of time, then if you accelerated from you know, from
the Sun to your destination, and if you accelerate halfway and then decelerat at
that rate the other half of the way, you could literally traverse the galaxy
in about one hundred and twenty days of ship time, so less than four
months of travel time to get from one side of the galaxy the other,
which I thought would be really amazing. So so I took that as evid
you know, so the people often asked the question, you know, with
these craft, why do people quickly assume that they're spacecraft? And I think
the answer is because the accelerations are those what you would expect to see in
a spacecraft, and in fact, these aren't just this wouldn't be the ones
we saw that were encountered in the Nimtz case. They would just be just
any ordinary spacecraft. They'd be excellent spacecraft. So I think that's interesting now
they and then and then again. So the point is that if you're traveling
from one side of the galaxy to the other, or even or even just
a few hundred LA years, there's really no reason to make friends with the
locals, because the next time you're here visiting, that's that civilization you were
visited, you visited last time you were here, would be could potentially be
gone. So if so, if you, for instance, by if you're
traversing the galaxy, you know, it's going to take you eighty thousand years
to get from one side to the other. That's one hundred sixty thousand years.
So an individual who was who visited Earth and then went to the other
side of the galaxy and came back and came back at present day, that
means the last time they were here on Earth was one hundred sixty thousand years
ago. Well, there were no people here then, no society. There
were people, but there were no societies. And if they if they intend
to do and nothing to make another trip like that, they won't be back
again for one hundred and sixty thousand years. So why why bother landing on
the White House lawn? There isn't going to be a White House the next
time they come back, right, And another point you made was that you
know there has been talked about the similarity in what people have witnessed, you
know, back in the forties to what they witnessed now. Well, in
this scenario that you put forth, even though you know something was seen in
the forties and then seen again in the two thousands, it you know could
have gone somewhere and come back and to that craft, it's only been maybe
last time it was here was lunch and now it's the afternoon. So it's
the same craft, right exactly. Yeah, that's one thing that really surprised
me because in that simulation I ran, I ran it for two thousand years,
and it was only you know, anywhere from eight months to two years
for those individual crafts. So if you imagine, you know, there were
sightings of flying shields in ancient Rome, and if we would assume that those
shields were actually one of these spacecraft, then it could actually be the same
individuals in the same spacecraft that came back a second time, you know,
in present day, and the last time they were here was too millennia ago.
That's very possible. And so why don't the craft change design? Why
don't they why don't they improve? You know, why don't they Why don't
you see technological improvements in these craft? Well, because they're the same craft,
and that would be that would be the answer in this case, which
I thought was pretty surprising, but it would make some kind of sense mm
hmm. And then a unique opportunity you talk about to kind of observe evolution.
Yeah, that I thought was really exciting. And I then thought,
well, what I what if I traversed the galaxy, you know, if
I, if I, if I did when did this, I would have
have, you know, every trip across the galaxy, every round trip I'd
take, would be one hundred and sixty thousand years so of time in the
galaxy. So if I in a fifty year lifespan, I could conceivably traverse
the galaxy one hundred and fifty times, and that would be equivalent to racing
ahead about twelve million years into the future. So I it would be very
interesting because you could literally watch, you know, twelve million years of evolution
happen on a planet, you know, at some sparse interval one hundred and
fifty thousand year intervals, which would be really interesting. I mean, you're
their biologists would be looking at biology at a very different scale than we study
biology, and I think that's you know, they would be studying biology like
paleontologists study biology. So you would have the opportunity to watch evolution at work.
And heck, you could experiment with it if you wanted to. I
think that's interesting and interesting possibility as well. Yeah, you know what really
hits me about your discussion and this idea also is that we're not, especially
when you look at your original graph with you know, the speeds we're looking
to achieve in a fairly fairly near well at least, you know, ideas
that we think we can build craft they can move at certain speeds. The
potential exists for the not too distant future. And I would imagine, just
like you talked about, you know, people willing to go to Mars on
this one way trip. It's very realistic that there could be a group of
people that decide to do this and I think so, yeah, and spend
their life gathering amazing information, taking a planet and observing its evolution. I
mean, it's pretty extraordinary. Yeah, if you if I didn't have a
family, you could sign me up. Well, this is really interesting.
I know that there will be more information up about your talk on the SEU
site eventually, but I do want to say thank you very much for participating.
And you know, as far as the future goes, do you think
that there is people interested in this topic? Do you think there's hope?
Do you see like kind of a positive movement in the scientific community that at
least began to be open to speculation in this area. I do. I
was nervous about the article that I wrote for The Conversation where I basically said
that we should be studying these phenomena, and I was worried about what kind
of backlash or commentary I would get from other scientists. And I was very
surprised to see that I gotten a good number of emails from other scientists and
the responses were all positive. They were all bravos. Somebody needed to say
this for a long time. We've needed to study these things for a long
time. It's been you know, fifty or seventy years, and nobody's really
looked at this seriously, and we ought to. And those were basically the
kinds of comments that I got. I got comments like that, ranging from
that to to I've been studying this in secret for for this many years,
and I have, you know, images of plasma around these objects that I'm
trying to study, and I'm you know, and things like this. You
know, we should get together and compare notes and I'll show you what I
know. And so I had had a lot of people very interested. And
so I'm hoping that a scientific conference like SEUs would be you know, is
going to grow in size and you'll see more scientists than next time around.
Mm hm. And do you know ed did you hear any feedback from that
Harvard professor? Do you think you influenced him? And all Abby Lowbe?
I believe his name is oh Ave Lobe. Yeah, I don't. I
don't know him personally, and I didn't have any feedback from him. I
don't know what if, you know, if if my article influenced him at
all, or if it's just the you know, a sign of the times.
I think that the Luis Alisondo coming out with the announcement about a tip
was a big deal, and I think it'll be a bigger deal after May.
And I think that people are realizing that, you know, our government's
been studying these things for a long time and they continue to study them.
I think that'll be a kind of it will be a revelation to some and
and in fact, there's other governments studying them as well, and may that
may induce some governments of some of these other countries to come out and say,
yeah, I know we've studied these things too, and and and I'm
hoping that that scientists will get involved and we can start figuring out what these
things are. And in some cases they may be natural phenomena that are worth
learning about. And in other cases they might be artificial, you know,
made by somebody else, maybe not maybe, and maybe extraterrestrial. That's interesting
too. So if I look at it this way, if there were extraterrestrial
craft visiting Earth, we would all want to know about it. We all
ought to know about it. So it's worth looking into and so and it's
worth studying. Well, thank you so much for joining me this morning or
afternoon for you, I guess out there on the East coast. But thank
you so much for joining. This has been so very interesting and I look
forward to one day having you back. All right, thank you very much
for having me. Thank you so much to Kevin for being on the show.
It was so great to have him. I guess you could google his
name and also look him up at the Albany State University of New York and
to read more about him. But he's got a lot of really cool stuff
going on. Of course in the science world, he's doing lots of cool
stuff as well. The lecture that he did for the Scientific Coalition before you
fall it at this event, this AAPC event, was great, So we
kind of covered generalized what he was talking about, but I can't wait for
you to see the full presentation. He said. He did permission for the
SEU to post that, so keep an eye at explore SCU dot org.
And it looks like they're going to be putting the videos up in the AAPC
link, so you can see that there. And they've got pictures from the
event of all of the presenters and it looks like that's where they're going to
put the videos as well. So very excited for you all to see that
because there were just some incredible lectures, including Kevin's here, and actually there
were funnier jokes in the presentation too. Kevin, It's just absolutely a ton
of fun to listen to, and his lecture was a lot of fun.
So really happy to have him involved in and thankful that we have someone of
his stature and background, you know, to be here to answer questions and
to speculate and give us some magic ideas on some things that could be going
on out there. I think that one of the things I really love about
is talk is this perspective thing that if time is much different to whatever may
be coming here, if there is something coming here then that may explain some
of their enigmatic behavior and or motivations, and that we haven't really taken a
lot of that into consideration. I don't think, so really interesting to hear
him talk on that. Also, congratulations to the SCU for putting together an
event that I think is one of the most important ones too have been put
together on all of this, so great job to them. Be sure to
check out explore SCU dot org for the official releases of information. And then
Kevin talked about control and making sure that information is released properly and of course
that all of the proper permissions are obtained are very very very important to scientists.
So you'll be able to find the official releases of information at explore SCU
dot com. By the way, if you're interested in helping out the Scientific
Coalition for Ufology, there are a couple positions they are looking for. I
actually am helping out. You know. My aspect is as an advisor when
it comes to the press and communications and things like that, and to that
effect, one of the things we're looking at, at least for internal communications
is someone who can help with that, help with maybe sending out emails,
board even more so being in the board meetings and taking notes and sharing that
information internally as well, So this is kind of an internal information gathering and
sharing responsibility. But what's great about this is that this position's going to be
able to keep up to speed on all of the really cool things that SCU
is looking to do. What are they looking to do. They obtain entries
essentially white papers, investigations that people have done out there, and then they
reveal them like a scientific organization would do, to make sure that the science
is vetted it's good science, good research, and then those are posted.
Really there's only a couple of papers that have been out there, but there
are some in the mix as well that are under review currently. So we're
going to see really good stuff coming from this group going forward. And already
you can click on a link called papers and you're going to see a lot
of case reports, science papers. Not all of these are SCU papers,
but papers that have been written in the past that are our scientific papers.
So this is kind of going to be a repository for everybody on scientific analysis
and information regarding this topic. So really good stuff. But these guys did
a great job. So if you're interested in helping on doing some of that
internal communications. Get a hold of me. You can send an email to
Paranormal Reporter at gmail dot com. Also, you can go to my Facebook
or my Twitter. Just look for Alejandro Rojas. If you type Alejandro Rojas
UFOs, you're gonna find me. So yeah, send me a message and
we'll get you rolling on that. Thank you very much for your interests,
and thanks for meeting some of you guys at SEU, some of my listeners,
because my listeners are extremely intelligent. Although not all of you have PhDs,
you all should and you could if you wanted to. You know,
if you had the time, you could do it. You guys are like
super geniuses. But it was great to have so many listeners there and to
be able to meet some of you. So that was a lot of fun,
and in fact I wanted to do some shout outs. Kevin, who
I met. That's the name of someone I met. I met a lot
of people, but in particular I want to say hello and thank you to
some of my patrons. So I want to say thank you to Amy,
to Andrew, to David, to Evan, to Gary Guillame, James,
Jason, Joseph Kendra, Kevin, Layla, let's see who else Less and
maybe Leela, Laila, Richard, Ron and Ryan and let's see there's a
couple more. Stewart, thank you all so much to you know, patron's
new and old for helping me with what I do at the Patreon website.
It's a ton of help. It's greatly appreciated. And if you are a
Patreon member, you can go there and see more information as well and contact
me on there, and I do share some secret information there. In fact,
with my patreons, I kind of shared more information about what I'm up
to and what I'm going to be doing in the future. So you can
go check that out there if you're a Patron, otherwise just listen to the
show. I'll share that information with you either way. More information getting shared
with you about the UFO Congress, So if you were getting the Open Minds
newsletters, you know there. We have been in this transition for email,
so the email server we have is not working. That's why I didn't say
send an email to contacted open minds dot com instead, you know what,
I've been trying to work with that, But the UFO Congress has got their
email system up, and it's kind of a lot of the people that were
on the really it was hard to tell the difference because the Congress and Open
Minds were combined and now the Congress is just separate. So you may get
emails from the UFO Congress. Please don't hit the junk mail if you don't
want those emails. If you don't want them, that is just fine.
I totally understand, but do hit the unsubscribed button and you will be unsubscribed.
Don't hit that junk mail when that hurts us. But I would really
recommend that you stay on the email list because you're going to get the latest
information that we're sharing right on that list. So you're going to get Open
Minds information, information about this podcast, information about the conference itself. And
we have a lot of great speaker coming up to the conference. I'll tell
you Lou is going to be there, and a lot of things related to
what Lou is up to. So for a little hint on some of the
great speakers speaking of which, of course, one of the big things Lou's
Alessando is up to with to the Stars Academy and Tom DeLong in that whole
group working with Lou Alessando, the former chief of that Pentagon UFO project,
who spoke at the SCU is this History Channel show that they have coming up
called Unidentified and it's going to be really important. Lou says he's seen some
episodes that they're really good. What he's seems so far that they're working with
very professional people. This is some of what he's shared at the conference.
Of course, I'm going to have an interview with him in just the next
few weeks where we'll talk about more of all of this, But he did
share with us that much of what he couldn't share is going to be in
the show. So for example, there the Nimitz case is incredible and it's
just an extraordinary case. We've talked a lot about it. The two thousand
and four case, it was in the New York Times article that you know,
kind of released the information on Alexander and the Pentagon program. You'll see
more about that too when you see the video of the SEU analysis on that.
But you will also see on the television show even more cases that the
Pentagon Project worked on and witnesses from these events as well. So finally,
what we've all been waiting for what we've all been hoped hoping for. It's
going to be in this History Channel project program that's coming up here, so
really exciting. That show starts up in May, and we should have a
lou on before that us even more so that'll be really exciting as well.
So Otherwise, check out Openminds dot tv. All of those stories that Martin
and I spoke about at the beginning of the program I have listed on the
front page there under the UFO headlines. Also check out ufocongress dot com for
updates. We'll be opening tickets and putting up speaker lists soon. Also at
ufocongress dot com there's a store with a bunch of really cool UFO and Alien
products that you'll want to check out. So if you're into that sort of
thing, wearing those clothes and stuff, they're super cool, so check out
the store there. Otherwise, I want to thank Martin Willis a podcast UFO
for joining us at the beginning of the show. I want to thank Systematics
for the bumper music, Caleb Hanks for the amazing open and closed music.
And finally, of course I want to thank you the listener for being here.
Once again, thank you for hanging in there. It's been a few
weeks since we've had a show, but we're going to be better, and
we'll have another great show next week and a bunch of incredible shows coming up.
We're kind of got a new era, I feeled, you know,
like moving in a more credible and important direction with this topic than we've ever
done before, So we'll probably have some slight changes coming in and just kind
of bringing everything to a better and higher level. So this is all going
to be a lot of fun, and it's going to be fun having you
all along on this journey as well. So thank you all so much for
listening. Until next time, Audio Smooth, Chochos, You mus