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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro

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Rojas, and I have a great
show today. However, to start the

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show off and to talk some news
I do have with me, mister Martin

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willis a podcast UFO. No.
Hello, how's it going? Good?

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Good? Good good good? So
in the air is in the air.

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I know it's great. The weather
is getting better and everything's looking up for

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at least weatherwise. But and I've
got a show. So I've been gone

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for a few weeks. I apologize
to the audience for that, but there

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was vacation time. And you know
what I want I really wanted to focus

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on, and that's where I got
my guests is a Scientific Coalition for Ufology,

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that conference that went on the AAPC. Some of you know, I've

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been involved with the SCU and so
I really wanted to focus on that and

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what was going on there, to
digest it and to capitalize as much as

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possible on this event. And this
event became, you know, to me,

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more important than I even thought.
But we'll talk about that first,

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though, I want to talk to
you about my guest. My guest is

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doctor Kevin Kanuth. He is from
the Department of Physics, a professor there,

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an associate professor at the University of
Albany also known as SUNNI the State

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University of New York, so kind
of a big deal. And he has

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also worked at NASA as a NASA
Research scientist. He's a professor of physics.

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He teaches space all kinds of really
cool stuff and he had a great

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talk. So we're going to talk
to him about science and the UFO topic,

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and then we're also going to talk
to him about this kind of idea

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that he put forward in the conference. It has to do with kind of

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space time when it deals with space
travel, and this idea of how time

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may be very different for whatever may
be visiting us. So from that perspective,

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it could answer some of the questions
as to why what we see when

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it comes to the phenomena is so
enigmatic. So we'll talk about that with

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our discussions with Kevin. But he
was so great, he was a great

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presenter. The SEU is going to
have his talk up eventually here as a

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prepare it. But it was really
good. Wow, I can't wait to

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listen this. I love this kind
of stuff. I can't wait to listen

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You know there was another. There
have been, in my opinion, very

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few very serious science oriented conferences,
and you and I met at one in

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North Carolina. That's where we first
met. And I think Leslie Kane was

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kind of the main person to organize
as speakers, and of course she's very

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credible. She's behind the December seventeenth, twenty seventeen article that you know,

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the Pentagon thing came outeenth sixteenth,
right, and so she was the perfect

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person to put this together for Ken
Center, who was part of MUFON over

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there, and that was a really
great event, but this felt like that,

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if not better. It was a
very science oriented, small group,

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very intimate, but it was really
incredible to have such a high level of

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credibility of experience. You know,
some of these speakers had multiple PhDs,

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and to be talking seriously about this
topic, ideas around this topic and how

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to move forward, and then to
have Louise Eleazondo there to also share this

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information with these guys to add to
that conversation, and how put off was

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there the whole time. It was. Yeah, it was a really incredible

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event, very important, and you
know, there'll be more information coming out

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about the talks as time goes on. Wow, I really wish I could

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have gone there. I yeah,
so I got I was contacted by a

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few people that were going and I
really wanted to go, but I had

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just got back from you know,
six weeks away. So yeah, yeah,

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yeah, that's right. So but
we do have some of our listeners,

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you know, we're there, so
others have shared and you know,

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Kevin and I go over this.
There's been a little bit of criticism because

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there has been some information that has
gotten out and the SEU has been like,

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hey, guys, you didn't have
permission to get that information out,

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so please don't share that, which
is a completely fair thing to ask.

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So there have been people frustrated with
that, saying, hey, you know,

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they're trying to edit this information or
at least be controlling with the information.

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And you know what, people,
that's how professional organizations work. Really.

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Pretty much every event I go to
I'm invited at for press some of

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these cool things that I get to
go to, you know, NASA facilities

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and stuff. There's always information that
is embargoed. Information I can't share for

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maybe a few days, maybe a
few weeks, maybe a few months.

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And then there's often information that they
want off the record, and so you

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can't share that at all. And
of course, you know with me speaking

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with all of these different individuals,
the more I guess professional, the more

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credibility or kind of the more like
Alexander talked about with risk aversion, the

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more professional the person, the more
sensitive an area they're in, the less

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they're gonna they're gonna be more careful
about the way they speak with this because

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they don't want to hurt credibility amongst
their peers. And so Kevin and I

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talk about this and working and writing
with scientists, and we often have these

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discussions when I have these meetings with
scientists and stuff off the record discussions.

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There's there's a difficulty they have with
working with the media because their information is

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is you know, they can't get
it misconstrued. When you're a journalist,

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if you get something they say wrong, that can have a very big effect

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on them because you know it may
get out there that you know, this

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scientist is misrepresenting their work or doesn't
understand the science correctly, and then they

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lose credibility. So it can have
it can be very impactful. So when

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you're working with these sorts of people. How you release and what you release

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is extremely important, and at least
it's my position at the SCU that we'd

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be very strict about it because we
want to make this safe environment for scientists.

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So that's why that information is meetered. And to be completely honest,

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and I don't mean to be disrespectful
for anybody listening who shared information they shouldn't

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have. It is actually very unprofessional
not to get permission to share information before

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you share it. You know,
if you're truly trying to help this cause,

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you'll definitely want to do that because
some of these people, like our

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guests today, they may, you
know, we may share something that is

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very detrimental to their career and then
they'll never want to participate in this topic

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again because they don't feel there's a
safe professional space for them to do this

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work in. So that's why it's
so important that that information be carefully managed.

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We give a quick example of what
type of information was shared that shouldn't

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have been well, not details of
it, just something they said or I'll

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say this. I'll say, well, here's for instance, Alexander didn't really

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want the Q and A shared because
he shared most of this is not necessarily

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around being inaccurate, but he was
kind of I think teetering on the edge

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of what he can share as far
as the History Channel show that's coming up,

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and we'll talk about that in a
minute. But also he commented on

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personal you know, things about his
family and stuff that he really didn't want

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to share because as we all know, as you and I know, everything

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we say on these shows is scrutinized
and anything that we say can be used

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in social media to attack us or
make fun of us or what have you.

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And it's unfortunate. It's not justified, nor is it professional or even

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you know, copasetic in any way. But there's a lot of mean people

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out there on the internet. So
and there has been blowback in personal kind

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of effects that he has experienced from
people just being very cruel, you know,

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and then the family seeing this and
being like, oh my gosh,

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what are these people saying about my
dad or something? You know, you

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probably get that, you know,
I know, I feel, you know,

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what are people I rarely see people
saying something bad about you in particular,

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but certainly other colleagues, you know, you hate it. That's when

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I get more man when people are
being mean or unjustified and bashing you know,

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some of our friends and or colleagues
or other people in this field.

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So that's the sort of thing.
But otherwise, you know what can even

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hurt more. And we'll get into
this with Kevin actually and get into this

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topic and what he's written in just
a minute when we get into the news.

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But I'll kind of talk about this
some more, and Kevin and I

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will talk about it some more too
later in the show. Yes, well,

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SCU wise though, because you weren't
there are there any questions I can

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answer? Were there any like burning
questions you were, like, I wonder

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if this happened or that happened.
Yes, I know they discussed or Robert

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Powell discussed the Nimmet's case. But
were there other cases that were discussed in

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depth like that. No, that's
a great question. Well I shouldn't say

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that. Yes, there were two
cases that in particular that were covered because

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they've been thoroughly researched by the SCU
and that was the Aguedilla case, the

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Puerto Rico homeland security video case,
and then also the Nimets case because,

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as you know, because you're one
of the one of the few people.

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Roberts even told me he would rather
wait for the report to come out to

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talk about it. Uh, and
we will have a video up eventually to

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talk about, you know, the
findings that Robert Powell and Peter Reality came

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up or Relatti I keep messing up
his last name, but I came up

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with but yeah, so it's just
mostly those two cases. Otherwise it was

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more general. So like for instance, with Kevin he kind of like his

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analysis of time, space and spaceflight
and how that would affect perspectives. Or

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you know another Taylor, Travis Taylor, really you know, charismatic guy.

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He came up and talked about he's
got two PhD's, talked about what if

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aliens attacked what would we do?
And this is something he's written a big

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book on. So it is speculation, but it's you know, he's really

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done a thorough analysis like we would
do with a you know, a foreign

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adversary and what might happen. So
really interesting stuff there too. What that

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would be interested to know what his
thoughts are if alien attacked us? What

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will we do? Great talk,
So we'll have that up at the SEU

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site. I would join them,
Hi for one welcome our new alien overlords.

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Yeah, yeah, you would,
I would. Yeah. All right.

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So before we get into that,
let's talk news. So what would

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you like to start off with,
Buddy, Well, you know, it's

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not news so much, it's just
an interesting story. It's in Forbes and

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Aidan Gillen from the new you know, Project Blue Book not so new several

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times. First season's over, and
you know what, he's a great actor.

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I think he did well personally with
Heinek. You made him very likable.

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I do have my criticisms of the
show, and my final review is

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going to be posted any second now, by the way, so i'll share

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that accuracy was out the window.
You know, it's got worse his time

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went on, but it was still
an entertaining show. And I think Aiden

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gill did great. What did you
think? I think, you know,

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he's absolutely he just becomes such a
focus and such a you know, you

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want to like him exactly. Yeah, And you know, I think he's

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great. I think he did.
I think he did the part really well,

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and I think he really took care
to make sure he did. You

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know, when I spoke with Dave
Old Larry, he'd say that he get

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a call from what would your dad
do if this happened? You know,

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that type of thing. So he
really did have you know, he really

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had care to do the portraying as
accurate as possible in a given situation.

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Yeah, I agree. I agree. Anyway, the story is called that

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he talked to UFOs in his new
show Project Blue Book and Pardon Me,

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and so it talks about the ten
episode drama series based on renowned as physicists

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astrophysic doctor Joseph I didn't know that
was his first name, Jay Allen Heinick,

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who studied UFOs, and it had
quickly become one of the top shows

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of the year, which I think
that's pretty nice. I think it was

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in three something million viewership or something
like that. It probably even says it

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somewhere in this story. So it
basically talks about the relation of the UFOs

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reported through the United States Air Force
from nineteen fifty two to nineteen sixty nine,

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over twelve thousand of them were reported. But it talks again, it

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starts getting into the Irish actor and
by the way, he really lost his

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accent very well, Aidan Gillen,
And they say in this article that they

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think he brilliantly plays doctor Heinick,
and of course you'd remember him from little

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Finger from Game of Thrones if you
ever watched that. So in a phone

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interview, he discussed how it differs
portraying a real person as a post as

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a fictional character. He says,
it's both daunting and exciting, though more

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so exciting, and it is the
first time he's delving into a real person

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on screen. But he explains the
you know, the differences and all that.

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So they go on to ask him
about UFOs and is he a believer

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or not, and he says,
I'm quoting here. I've seen a couple

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of things, he says. He
describes a time when he was with friends

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and they saw something in the sky
they couldn't explain, and he said,

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this wasn't long after seeing the nineteen
seventy seven classic Close Encounters of the Third

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kind. We were all kids and
we saw something inexplicable. It was also

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at a time that we were really
looking for something, and I totally understand

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that. Also, he adds that
his mother saw something in the nineteen fifties

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in rural I learn, and that
was a time when UFOs were the topic

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of conversation on TV and on the
radio, and people were really looking for

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them and wanted to see them.
And he believes that it's quite improbable that

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we that were alone in the universe, which is wait a minute, did

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I read that wrong. Yeah,
I believe that it's quite improbable, I'm

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sorry, improbable that we're alone in
the university. Yeah, he said it

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kind of strangely, but you got
it. Yeah, And it's highly likely

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that there are other civilizations. I
think most people in our society today are

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feeling that way as time goes on
more and more. I would really love

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to talk to him like I did
with Michael Malarkey. Michael Malarkey, for

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instance, didn't think much about the
topic really, and then when he got

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involved with the show and he read
like roupelt Books, the blue Book chief

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who wrote a book on you know, Project blue Book, he was like,

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Oh my gosh, you know,
there's just so much evidence that there's

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a real phenomena here that his involvement
with the show is what convinced him.

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And I wonder if that's the same
way with Aidan Gillen. It seems as

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though, but I wonder if it
is. Well, he had a little

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bit of a jump on the topic
that to begin with, Yeah, with

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his sightings. True. Yeah,
So that's a great article in Forbes,

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right, So a couple other articles, actually, I have a couple of

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articles that kind of answer your question
too to how does you know how can

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information get misconstrued? So we have
this article from Kevin Kanouth my who we're

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going to hear from in just a
second at least about him, that came

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out fairly recently, and the title
is ex NASA scientist says that UFOs are

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real and the government covers up alien
life. That's the Tech Times headline,

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which is completely inaccurate. They're talking
about Kevin Kanuth And what happened is,

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for you know, UFO day in
June second, I think or July second

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is the day there was someone who
asked, you know, they were asked

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that the university would someone like to
write an article about UFOs, and he

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said, sure, I'll do it. So he wrote an article for the

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Conversation and the title is are we
alone? The question is worthy of Syria

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serious scientific study. So he's making
an argument here that we should take the

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potential, you know, the UFO
phenomena seriously and look at it and it's

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a great article. This article actually
originally came out in like June of twenty

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eighteen, and then I think because
he was speaking at SEU, there's been

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you know, the tabloids even picked
up this story and wrote about him recently.

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So but they did kind of,
you know, get things right.

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And that's the hard part. He
is not saying there's a major cover up.

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In fact, if you read his
original story, he says by not

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sharing information, it makes it look
like there's a cover up. And he

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also says by scientists who are skeptical
coming up with ridiculous debunking theories for UFO

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incidents, he says that also hurts
and gives the impression that there's a major

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conspiracy because you and I complain about
that often that you know, the skeptics

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will say, oh, I can
answer A, A and B out of

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a whole list of seven or eight, you know, pertinent facts, and

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so they can blow it off because
they feel they can answer one or two

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aspects. Right, it was venus, because it's in the sky right right.

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It's one of the frustrations, you
know, even with the Aguadilla report,

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you know, this is what there
was a light coming out from the

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ocean over towards this airport in Puerto
Rico. The Homeland Security guys are actually

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border patrol essentially that oh is this
a drug runner? It looked low.

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They aim their camera on it and
they get this object. The light turns

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off, but they can see the
object in their flair, you know,

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at night, they're infrared essentially,
so uh, you know, but a

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lot of people throw that out the
window and say, oh, and this

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infrared, I can tell this,
I can tell that, But they throw

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out the witness testimony and the reason
why they're looking in the first place.

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It's an example of how, you
know, if you don't take all the

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information, then you're not really examining
the entire facts of the case. You

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know, did they did they talk
about that from the beginning, because I

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had they did heard that part of
it a month ago about the light.

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Well here's well, here's the other
issue, and this is the other This

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is another example why you need to
be careful with the way you get out

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information. In fact, Elizondo said
something great, uh, and I love

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it. He said, you know, we're not here to satisfy idle curiosity.

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Set I understand you guys want people
out there want information as quickly as

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possible, and we want to get
it to people as quickly as possible,

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but not at the detriment of the
case or what we're trying to accomplish here.

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We're not going to, you know, to jeopardize the case to satisfy

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idle curiosity. And I totally agree
with that, because this is an example

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with Agua da. If you don't
have all of the pieces of information in

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total, then the case isn't as
substantial. And that was something that I,

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you know, I think that just
gets lost in conversation. People don't,

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you know, take a step back. Here's another example. I tweet

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it and and it was being a
little bit on rate that Alessander said a

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tip was one hundred UFOs. Because
some people are doubting out that out there

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because they say, well, we
don't have a government document that says that.

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Well, so what I mean,
here's why nobody cares. Here's why

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only these really kind of honore people
in the UFO community. Someone will get

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frustrated with me saying this, but
this is the truth. Here's why they're

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the only ones who care. Because
we have the guy who created got the

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funding for the program, saying,
yep, and we created this program.

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I sought this funding to investigate the
paranormal, including UFOs. We have lou

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Elizondo who ran the program. It's
verified he's ran the program, saying this

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was one hundred percent UFOs. We
have help put of and other BASS employees

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who were contractors with the project,
saying, yes, we were looking in

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UFOs. What more do you need? These are the people working in the

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project. They've already explained how when
they described the project or when they you

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know, the project goals on paper
had to be enigmatic because they didn't want

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people to bash them for being some
kind of UFO group, so they had

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to kind of hide the wording or
play with their wording. So it wasn't

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obvious. It's obvious that we wouldn't
you know that we're seeing what we're seeing

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in these documents, given we need
more documents, and it's always good to

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be skeptical, but you know,
for the for the common sense person out

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there and for the media. Okay, we have it confirmed from everybody involved

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with this program, high level credible
people that it was UFOs. Fine,

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it's UFOs. Now, what are
the critics saying that they're essentially saying that

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the documents don't say UFOs. They
use terms like advanced aerial threat, you

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know, identification of foreign threats all
of this, which is you know,

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veiled terminology for what is a foreign
threat and unknown object is also a foreign

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threat, so which is what Alizondo
said, And you know, we investigated

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those in particularly looking for those which
exhibited technology or performance that we can't achieve

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ourselves, right But anyway, yeah, so that's that's sort of the problem

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that gets in there. But it's
a great art. Another example of this

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is a is a Montana Tech professor
who recently talked about how hypothesized that UFOs

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could be from the future. What
is the headline? Mt Tech professor claims

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UFOs are time machines from the future. What is his quote? His quote

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is that it's potential, that it's
a possibility. He's not saying they are.

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In fact, he even says it
may be, so he's it's just

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this is an example where you know, their words, even a slight change

301
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can have a problem. But this
is a really interesting article about this professor

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who is saying, you know,
this could be a possibility and What's great

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about the article more so is he
saying, you know, we as professors

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and scientists and academics need to take
a look at this field. And you

305
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know there could be some answers like
this. How interesting would this be if

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you know we're witnessing people from the
future. So another great article. And

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I'm gonna go through these other ones
really quickly because we've ran out of time.

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But there's one in an article in
a website called The Outline belief in

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aliens could be America's next religion,
something I've been talking about too and I

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love. And this is based on
Diana Pasuka, her new book that came

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out kind of talking about some of
this stuff. Really interesting article a war

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history online article about Foo fighters.
So this is really cool researched article on

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that. And this is a Forbes
article. So at the same time as

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our event in Alabama for the SEU, there was another somewhat similar event happening

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in France and Paris, and this
is something that happens yearly. It was

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actually Monday the eighteenth where a bunch
of scientists got together to talk about aliens

317
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and UFOs in particular, scientists meet
to investigate the great silence. In other

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words, you know Fermi's paradox,
why are we not seeing aliens? And

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a lot of these scientists are seriously
hypothesizing things like the zoo hypothesis that they're

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just coming here to look at us, or a galactic quarantine that we are

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dirty apes and we, you know, can't be trusted to go out there

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in space. So, you know, just another scientific conference where they're looking

323
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at these things that happen in Paris. So this is a great Forbes article.

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And then finally, you all may
have seen the last episode of Project

325
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Bluebook and it was about the Washington
d C siding. So there's some great

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articles that even quote myself that the
History Channel had put out there on the

327
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nineteen fifty two encounters over Washington,
and those are good. These History Channel

328
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articles are well researched, They are
fact based, even if the show isn't.

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So the History articles are great and
I highly recommend people read those articles.

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I think they do a pretty good
job of covering all the UFO cases,

331
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the real ones that were in the
television shows. And you know,

332
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there are allusions to other UFO cases
in the Project blue Book show. And

333
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if you want more about those,
You're going to have to read my reviews

334
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because I don't think everybody catches those
other UFO stuff. And I know David

335
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O'Leary, the writer, is a
UFO buff, so he is definitely aware

336
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of what he's doing when he makes
these other references. So there's probably many

337
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.039
I miss, but at least the
once I catch I write about and provide

338
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information on in my reviews. And
I'll have my last review coming out real

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soon here. Great, Wow,
we really went over time. Interesting news,

340
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:48.359
Tom, It's great yeah packed full
mm hm, well, thank you

341
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.440
so much for joining us. You're
very welcome, my pleasure. Let's go

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ahead and talk with Professor Kevin Knout. I am very happy to welcome for

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the first time to the show,
Kevin Kanouth. And am I saying that

344
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correctly? Yes, that's correct.
It's the Scandinavian pronunciation, so that's right,

345
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.519
Thank you. Okay, great,
So there are other types of pronunciations

346
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:32.359
as well, huh English? Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, it's

347
00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:36.079
great to have you on. It
was very great to see you at the

348
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SEU Scientific Coalition for Ufology conference.
All of the names and everything are a

349
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:49.559
mouthful. The anomalous Aerospace Phenomena conference, and I guess we could start off

350
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there. So you are a scientist, a professor, and one of the

351
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.839
things that we got a lot of
feedback for they had feedback for putting together

352
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:07.599
the conference was the naming and really
a lot of advice to shy away from

353
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and stay away from the term UFO, And I was wondering, you know,

354
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is that something you would recommend as
well. So they use this term,

355
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.079
you know, anomalous aerospace phenomena,
which is great, it's an accurate

356
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:26.880
term. But do you see that
issue I mean with your colleagues. Yeah,

357
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:33.799
potentially. The terminology is always difficult
because some terms carry a lot of

358
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:41.920
extra baggage, or sometimes in science
they'll have a common meaning which isn't quite

359
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:47.519
the same as the scientific meaning,
and that can lead to confusion in some

360
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cases. So so I don't know. I think that you know, UFO

361
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.920
is a pretty charged term at this
point, and it might help to come

362
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:03.640
up with more precise monology, and
then it might not. Now in your

363
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.960
experience now, especially online, this
is kind of interesting. I wonder if

364
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:14.359
you saw this. People seem to
be very concerned about you and your reputation

365
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:18.400
getting hurt or you having to kind
of hide from your interest or your participation

366
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:25.400
in this conference, worried that you
know, you may suffer negative repercussions in

367
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:32.440
your career. Did you have those
fears or concerns. I've I have had

368
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those concerns, and I would continue
to have those concerns. My I have

369
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:42.759
a pretty solid reputation at this point
in international reputation, so I would hope

370
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that that would carry some weight.
And my interests in this have always been

371
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clear. So I think that this
is something that should be studied. I

372
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.000
don't have any statements about, you
know, as to what the solutions are

373
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.240
yet, so and I think that
scientists should study things. I think it's

374
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:07.680
that simple. Mm. Well,
and you have or at least there are

375
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:11.799
a lot of important people, I
will say, or other scientists kind of

376
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:21.240
coming out, and it seems like
we have this environment where scientists feel a

377
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:27.759
little more comfortable to go to the
potential alien explanation, for example, what

378
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:30.640
you refer to the dice in sphere. And there's been a lot of talk

379
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:37.640
about you know, Tabby's star,
the Omamua thing that came through you know,

380
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:42.839
the Harvard scientists suggesting it could be
alien spacecraft. It seems like there

381
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:49.440
is a little bit more of an
acceptance of, at least entertaining the idea

382
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:55.680
that there could be other civilizations out
there trying to come take a look at

383
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.640
us. Yeah, I think that's
correct, and I think there's a good

384
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:06.799
reason for it. If you think
about the near nineteen forty seven, which

385
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.440
is when Kenneth Arnold, you know, saw saucers near Mount Rainier, the

386
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.160
what was nineteen forty seven, like, well, this was ten years before

387
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.880
Sputnik, and in fact, even
two weeks before Sputnik you had the you

388
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.920
know, the Royal Astronomer in Britain
declared that space travel was bunk. And

389
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:30.799
that was two weeks before Sputnick.
So ten years before Sputnik we hadn't really

390
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.920
we still weren't really considering space travel
as a serious possibility. Not everyone was

391
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:44.039
sure it was physically possible. We
didn't have a great deal of knowledge about

392
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.640
what the planets in our Solar system
were like, and we didn't know at

393
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:51.160
all whether there were any other planets
around any other stars. We assumed there

394
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:53.839
probably were, but we didn't have
any information about that at all. So

395
00:32:54.359 --> 00:33:02.440
nineteen forty seven, the idea that
there could be advanced civilizations from other star

396
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:07.200
systems visiting Earth was just almost off
the table. We just didn't have that

397
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:12.559
kind of knowledge and that our worldview
wasn't prepared to accept something like that.

398
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.119
Now you fast forward, what is
it, seventy years or so to this

399
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:23.279
point in time, and now we're
looking at we ourselves have visited other planets,

400
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:29.039
you know, We've put men on
the Moon, We've launched probes to

401
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:34.440
the major bodies in our Solar System, and we've got you know, two

402
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.200
space probes, the two Voyager the
craft and the Pioneer craft actually are both

403
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:45.000
leaving the Solar System at this point. And moreover, we have plans ourselves

404
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:49.079
to visit the nearest star. We're
aiming to get to Alpha century by twenty

405
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:54.400
sixty nine. This is one of
the goals that NASA has, so so

406
00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:00.960
where we are working toward interstellar travel
ourselves and more even you know, and

407
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:06.599
to add to that, we also
now have knowledge about planets around other stars

408
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:13.480
and we're learning about them. So
I think the situation's changed and we now

409
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.920
have a better picture of what the
universe is like and realize that, you

410
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:22.039
know, we are a civilization that
really is attempting to do this, and

411
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:28.719
we have had some success at this
point, so it's not unreasonable to accept

412
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.800
the possibility that there may be other
civilizations out there that may have tried to

413
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:37.480
do this as well, with varying
degrees of success. And another aspect to

414
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.679
it that I think actually is important
and it may seem silly, but you

415
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.960
know, being a journalist who's gotten
covered a lot of science and NASA,

416
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:49.679
this is a this is kind of
a big deal. Is how do we

417
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:52.800
outreach to the public. And it's
it's fun, like, for instance,

418
00:34:53.320 --> 00:35:00.800
when you're presenting about this and making
your postulations or you know, it's fun

419
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:05.800
to think about this stuff and it
does serve a scientific purpose also it's speculation

420
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.199
based on science. Yeah, it
is fun and I think, you know,

421
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.960
this is how this is how breakthroughs
are made. You know, you

422
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.639
go back to you know, the
late eighteen hundreds when Robert Goddard was in

423
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:22.360
his cherry tree and was thinking about
launching, you know, run launching his

424
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:27.480
model rockets and imagine what would it
look like to have a rocket that would

425
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.320
launch from this meadow and go to
Mars. You know, it's a fun

426
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:32.840
thing. To speculate. But what
did that lead to? That led to

427
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:37.920
the development of liquid fuel rockets,
which led to the Moon missions and man

428
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:43.119
Mars missions. You know, at
this point where we have groups now seriously

429
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:49.079
considering considering the possibility of colonizing Mars, and so this is one hundred years

430
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.280
later, so I think these you
know, imagination is an important part of

431
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:58.119
you know, that drives our interest
in science now. Now, of course

432
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:05.920
imagination effects our advancement, not necessarily
that of anyone else, but it could

433
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:15.079
serve to inform us as to how
to perhaps detect spacecraft moving through our interstellar

434
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:20.039
space from star to star, and
how to look for civilizations on other worlds

435
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:24.000
and things like this. And this
is interesting. Another question I have for

436
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:29.199
you before we move into kind of
the topic of your presentation at the event

437
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:37.199
was at the AAPC, the Anomalous
Aerospace Phenomena Conference. I guess what was

438
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:38.920
it like for you For those of
us who have been involved. I've been

439
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:45.159
involved with helping this organization grow from
the beginning, and for us it was

440
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:52.079
very exciting to have There have been
scientific oriented organizations before, but what's great

441
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:53.599
about this group is it's a lot
of doers, people who have been in

442
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:58.760
the business, that to say,
for decades working on this mystery. But

443
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:05.559
also they in the past, the
scientists involved with this field have not been

444
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:10.599
enthusiastic about sharing information more of research. But what's great about this group is

445
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:16.159
it's more looking towards also sharing information
with the public, which is exciting.

446
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.920
So it was an exciting event for
us and great to have you involved.

447
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:27.519
How was it for you? Oh? Well, I was very very excited

448
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:30.320
about it, very interested in attending
and meeting some of the people there to

449
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:37.760
find out what work has actually been
done, what data has actually been gathered,

450
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:44.840
what the possibilities are for future investigations. And I was glad to be

451
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:50.280
surrounded by scientists, people who are
actually studying, interested in studying this and

452
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:55.639
actually using a careful methodology to look
at the data at hand, as sparse

453
00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:04.480
as it is. And I had
several interesting conversations of what could be done

454
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:09.599
next, and and I look forward
to working on some of this. Was

455
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:15.599
any of the information surprising to you, you know, just as an outsider,

456
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:21.840
especially related to Luis Alisondo, and
that you know the Pentagon was working

457
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.599
on some of this and what they
were looking at. Uh, yeah,

458
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.679
some of that was quite surprising.
He mentioned a few things I think during

459
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:36.679
the Q and A that will be
coming out in May during the History Channels

460
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:42.800
docu series. So so I don't
want to mention anything specific, but but

461
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:46.119
I was kind of shocked as to
some of the encounters that you know,

462
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:53.239
he described, and and I would
it would be very exciting to get some

463
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:57.880
real data on that, to get
high quality visual images as well as in

464
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:02.480
FRED images and radar data and possibly
in spectra that that would be very exciting.

465
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.719
And so I'm hoping at some point
that that that's some of that data

466
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.599
will be released mm hm. And
I guess when you when you see that,

467
00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:15.159
I guess, how does it make
you feel as a scientist someone interested

468
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:19.400
in space. I mean, it
would seem like you would be as excited

469
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.960
as the rest of us says.
It's pretty exciting. It's exciting, but

470
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:30.440
at the same time, it's frustrating. I at this point they are let's

471
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.239
see, I don't I don't quite
want to use this word, but because

472
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:40.239
it's not not quite accurate, but
they there's still stories, still stories that

473
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.719
you hear from people. Now,
these are very reliable people, people who

474
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.280
you know if they're if they're joking
around or lying, it's costing us,

475
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.159
you know, tens of thousands of
dollars easily, maybe millions of dollars.

476
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:58.800
So it's a big deal. So
they are people I would I would tend

477
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:05.239
to believe. But but they're pretty
fantastic stories when you are, you know,

478
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:12.079
pretty fantastic accounts when you when you
really get down to it, you

479
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.960
you know, you get an idea
of what speeds these things are moving at

480
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.559
through the air, but you don't
have any sonic booms. You know,

481
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.280
they can come to a sudden stop, and you don't have a heat dump,

482
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:27.840
which you you would expect to have. In fact, Peter really and

483
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:32.719
his talk estimated the amounts of energy
involved and you're talking, you know,

484
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:38.239
several kilotons of T and T going
off per second, you know for some

485
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.159
of these craft, which you know, those were his estimates, which I

486
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:46.280
think are are you know, they're
ballpark estimates, but they're they're about about

487
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:51.400
what you would expect for this type
of behavior. So so the accounts are

488
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:55.800
surprising and and so yes, it's
very exciting at one level, but as

489
00:40:55.800 --> 00:41:00.840
a scientist, it's also frustrating because
as I would like to see real data.

490
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.119
I'd like to see, you know, radar data so that you can

491
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:09.320
get much more precise estimates of the
velocities and accelerations and things like that.

492
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.639
Which makes sense, That makes perfect
sense. And then I guess one last

493
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:24.480
comment on the conference itself is for
to encourage the participation or to make it

494
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.840
kind of a safe space for someone
like your yourself, who's who's you know,

495
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:37.840
embedded in the scientific community and academic
community. How do uh, how

496
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:43.800
do we make a safe space for
for people like yourself uh to speak on

497
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:49.239
this topic, because obviously you've put
some thought towards it. Your your presentation

498
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:57.079
showed that it's difficult to do.
I think that one of the one of

499
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:04.880
the things that I saw happening was
that information was being released pretty much immediately

500
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.159
from the conference to the internet.
The Internet, as we all know,

501
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:14.760
is a pretty hostile place for pretty
much anybody, and so so it's,

502
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:19.400
you know, you can't control the
information once it's released onto the internet,

503
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:23.760
and so it's a difficult balance.
You've got people who really want to know,

504
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:30.280
you know, and and share this
information, and I really appreciate that,

505
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.519
But at the same time, you
have if you want scientists to speak

506
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:38.840
and tell you what they know,
you have to make them feel secure.

507
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:45.760
Now, the different the difficulty is
that different scientists are going to feel differently

508
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:52.159
and and people are going to feel
Some people are going to be more more

509
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:55.599
willing and more open, you know, to talk about what they believe and

510
00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:00.480
what they they have figured out,
and other people are going to mean more

511
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.280
reticent. And I think it's the
first thing to do is to really respect

512
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:08.039
those differences and not second guess them
and judge them. I think that this

513
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:16.960
the public community has come to believe
that everything is some kind of secret conspiracy

514
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:27.599
and that there's that there's always some
ulterior, nefarious motive behind you know,

515
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:32.119
somebody's statements. And I think that's
that's difficult. It's in the long run,

516
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.360
it's going to they're going to shoot
themselves in the foot because if you

517
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.679
want people to be open, you
need to make them comfortable and listen to

518
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:43.880
them. So I think that's really
all there is to it. I think

519
00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:46.960
that you make a really good point, and what you're saying is important because

520
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:51.239
one of the things that we have
been experiencing is this, you know,

521
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:57.719
people being excited to release information and
releasing it without permission or prior to when

522
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:00.760
they were supposed to do, which
is one of the reasons that the group,

523
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.760
you know, was so careful with
who was coming in and that that

524
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:07.079
area. So I think the group
has to be more careful with the sharing

525
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.880
of the information, and it's lessons
learned. But you make a great point,

526
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:15.440
and I think that it'll be incoming
on us, and I think my

527
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:21.360
listeners will understand to go the route
you're talking about being more careful with the

528
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:27.079
information, even if it frustrates the
audience, because I've learned this too as

529
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.880
a journalist. When you cover scientists, it's it's extremely difficult, and I

530
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.119
think that's why so many journalists get
it wrong. They just don't have the

531
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:38.639
patience to work with scientists, and
scientists don't always make it easy because they

532
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:45.840
are very careful about the way that
their information. That the communicating scientific information,

533
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:52.000
especially when it comes to research or
theory, is so nuanced and complicated,

534
00:44:53.480 --> 00:45:00.840
and one misstep can cause a very
big misunderstanding, which causes problems.

535
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:05.559
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. And in fact, if you go

536
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:09.360
back and read earlier scientific papers,
even from the early nineteen hundreds, so

537
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:14.199
read a paper by Einstein or something
like this, and actually read his paper,

538
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:19.119
you find that what the scientists that
in the day used to do is

539
00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:22.920
there used to be speculation. They
used to speculate, so they would they

540
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:29.480
would present their results and do it
very carefully and correctly, and then the

541
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:35.880
discussion section at the end would usually
lapse into speculation on what things might be

542
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:42.079
like or what they believe. And
science has moved away from that. In

543
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:50.079
fact, that's any any speculation in
a paper is very quickly, very quickly

544
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:58.199
criticized by reviewers and we're not really
allowed to We're really not. They really

545
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:00.719
discouraged that type of behavior at this
point. So so now you get into

546
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:07.360
a situation where you know, you
you put a scientist in public and a

547
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.440
Q and a section session and you
ask them, well, what do you

548
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:15.960
think, Well, I'm going to
some of that is speculation, and a

549
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.599
careful scientist, you know, is
going to you say, well, let

550
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.920
me speculate or this is speculation.
But very quickly it you know, when

551
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:29.840
this stuff is just released without those
you know, those nuanced indications, then

552
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:36.400
then it can become very problematic,
right right, And it's also it's also

553
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:42.880
difficult to respond on the fly like
that. I think that, you know,

554
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:45.440
when writing a scientific paper, preparing
a talk, it really does take

555
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:52.039
you take you a good period of
time to make sure that every statement you're

556
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:57.639
making is correct and is worded to
say exactly what you wanted to say.

557
00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:02.039
I have always called that making papers
bulletproof. I have a colleague in England

558
00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:06.840
who calls it making them bomb proof. I guess he writes better papers than

559
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:12.760
I do. But but you,
you, you really do put the time

560
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:15.960
into make sure that that you know, no one can criticize you for the

561
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.800
statements you're making. You know,
but when you're being asked questions, you

562
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:24.039
know, in a Q and a
session, ordering a talk, or or

563
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:28.639
you know at dinner conversation at a
table, the situation is very different.

564
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:35.199
It's hard to put those it's hard
to make careful statements that are going to

565
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:40.679
be immune from criticism. And then
also, yeah, and like you said

566
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:49.039
earlier, kind of taken out of
context. And one of the perpetrators that

567
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:53.840
the U Kate tabloids, bless their
hearts, do all not always get the

568
00:47:53.960 --> 00:48:00.559
facts straight. Uh, you know, they try to sensationalize in and for

569
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.000
instance, you've had an experience,
and I was wondering how your experience went.

570
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:08.079
Where they wrote an article about you
and your ideas. Yes, I

571
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:13.280
had, well, I had written
a piece for an online journal called The

572
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:21.480
Conversation last uh, last June or
so a year ago. They had contacted

573
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.639
our immediate department actually and wanted a
physicist to write a piece on UFOs,

574
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:31.840
and so I agreed that I would
do that, and basically I wrote an

575
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:38.880
opinion piece basically stating that scientists should
study these things. That's really all that

576
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:43.760
I said in the in the in
the paper. And I spent four days

577
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.280
writing that paper. So I spent
a lot of effort in writing it and

578
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.880
had it proof read by you know, several of my colleagues before submitting it,

579
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:59.159
and I was and once once it
was out, I was surprised at

580
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:04.440
how much press it got. And
then I was surprised at how you would

581
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:08.840
have articles written about my article and
so so, despite the fact that I

582
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:14.719
carefully worded things and was very careful
in my statements, the articles written about

583
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:19.840
my article were you know, much
more highly speculative and made some statements about

584
00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:22.320
what I had said that I didn't
really say. You know, For instance,

585
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:27.119
I think one headline was that,
you know, former NASA scientists says

586
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:35.239
that government's hiding information on UFOs or
something, and I was I remember one

587
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:37.760
one afternoon, I just buried my
head in my hands and I thought,

588
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.519
oh my god, what have I
done? This is I've now learned a

589
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:45.679
very valuable lesson. This is what
happens when a scientist steps outside the scientific

590
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:51.920
community and interacts with the public.
And I'm sure that I'm sure politicians feel

591
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:55.159
this on a daily basis, but
I but that's the first day that I

592
00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:59.000
really felt it. And there's nothing
you can do about it. I can't

593
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:00.840
take it back. I can't you
know, I can't make a statement to

594
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:05.199
clarify or correct it. And you
just have to let it, let it

595
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:08.559
go, which is which is a
tough thing to do, right. And

596
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:14.599
I can't remember his name, cause
I know it's something like Cosmo, but

597
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.320
the scientists spoke recently at SETI kind
of making the same argument you were making,

598
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:22.199
that it's something that we need to
look into at least to keep an

599
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:29.199
eye you know are Oh, yeah, I was friend. I worked with

600
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.000
him at NASA. Ames yeah,
so, and then of course he's he's

601
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:37.599
kind of like shied away from from
speaking at all in the public because his

602
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:43.199
argument, similar to yours, was
completely misconstrued out there, and so much

603
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.360
so that he's just like, well, I'm not going to talk to any

604
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.360
of you anymore. And uh,
that's part of the problem that happens.

605
00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:52.960
Yeah, it is, and it's
and and it's you know, you can

606
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:55.960
it's easy to blame the blame the
scientists for it, but you know,

607
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:00.599
they're the ones putting their career on
the line doing this and putting the reputation

608
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:02.719
on the line. So it's a
it's a difficult thing, you know,

609
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:07.159
if you if you want the information, if you want information from somebody,

610
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:09.679
you have to make it come,
make them comfortable to tell you. Yeah,

611
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:13.199
I agree, And I think our
goal is going to be, at

612
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:17.159
least with with any influence I have, especially being kind of the press guy

613
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:23.880
with the group, well, default
to making the scientists comfortable rather than the

614
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:29.199
public, just because that's that's who
we're trying to get involved in, trying

615
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:34.079
to make a safe space for Yeah, and I and I think that if

616
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:37.880
they feel comfortable, they'll tell you. I think we you know, most

617
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:42.039
scientists are very excited about the work
that they do, and you know,

618
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:44.840
this is what we're interested in,
this is what drives us, this is

619
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:50.360
what we think about twenty four to
seven. And I think that we are

620
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:55.079
Most scientists are eager to share,
share their thoughts on the topics that interest

621
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:59.480
them. So I think that,
yeah, that'll go a long way.

622
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:02.239
So we've got a break coming up
here, and then we will get into

623
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:07.559
what you talked about at the conference, which I find extremely interesting. However,

624
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:10.559
one last question before we go to
break, is you know, having

625
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.360
said what you said earlier about this
kind of avoiding speculation, Uh, it

626
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:21.400
is interesting. And I find it
really interesting that papers that come out such

627
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:25.199
as the Tabby Star. Uh it
was actually in that original paper that came

628
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:34.639
out where they speculated on the potential
uh, intelligent civilization or dysent sphere hypothesis.

629
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:39.480
Yeah, that is interesting and and
and I find that I think that

630
00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:45.159
that that speculation is an important part
of science. You're you're basically considering potential

631
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:57.960
hypotheses. And and I think that
it's it's not it's not helpful helpful to

632
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:01.760
to stop scientists from speculator. They
should be speculating. That's part of what

633
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:05.480
we do. And it's good for
us to do that out in the open

634
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:10.440
with other scientists so that there can
be a discourse. All right, well,

635
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:14.840
thank you so much for that discussion. For the first part, we're

636
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:16.719
going to go take a break real
quick here. We'll be back in just

637
00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:21.599
a few seconds. Those of you
listening on a radio station, we'll hear

638
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:24.639
a commercial break. The rest of
you will hear a short musical interlude,

639
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:30.000
and once we're back, we'll be
back with Professor Kevin Kanouth to talk more

640
00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:54.639
about UFOs. Welcome back to Open
Mind GFO Radio. This is Alejandro Rojas,

641
00:53:54.719 --> 00:54:00.599
your host for the show, and
I'm talking to Professor Kevin can and

642
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:06.239
we're actually going to now get into
your talk at the at the AAPC,

643
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:13.800
which was constrained on breakaway societies engaged
in relativistic interstellar travel. And it's funny

644
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:16.159
you use that framework because I'm not
sure if you're aware, but there is

645
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:22.360
a conspiracy theory about breakaway societies.
Have you heard about that. I have

646
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:30.519
heard about that, and I and
I think that's probably where the term originally

647
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:36.280
originated, or just where it originated. But here I mean something a bit

648
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:39.960
different, so right, which is
really interesting. So I guess to begin

649
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:44.320
with, you had a quote at
the beginning of your your talk which I

650
00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:47.199
think is important. Ah. Yes, it was a quote from Melov and

651
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:52.760
Matt Love's The Starflight Handbook. Basically
it says, interstellar travel may still be

652
00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:59.400
in its infancy, but adulthood is
adulthood is fast approaching, and our descendants

653
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:05.440
was some days childhood's end. So
we're really getting close to traveling faster and

654
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:09.239
faster. And I think this graph
than that you showed next was really important,

655
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:15.039
kind of outlying how fast have we
gone, what speeds have we achieved,

656
00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:19.679
and what speeds are we looking at? And you separate two areas.

657
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:24.800
One area in particular you were looking
at was the region of extraordinary propulsion,

658
00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:30.920
And how would you define that that? Let's see, So that graph I

659
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:39.840
got from a paper by Garcia Escartine
and Chamorrow Posada from Acta Astronautica, and

660
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:46.199
the paper is called Scouting the Spectrum
for Interstellar Travelers. And basically they designated

661
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:52.559
that region of extraordinary propulsion as being
a region that basically is an order of

662
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:59.199
magnitude a factor of ten times faster
than the fastest objects we've observed, the

663
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:06.800
fastest natural objects we've observed. So
the fastest objects we've observed are basically hypervelocity

664
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:13.119
neutron stars that we're observed going about
about a half a percent the speed of

665
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:21.679
light, so so ten times faster
than that. You're basically looking at looking

666
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:25.760
at five percent the speed of light
as being the region of extraordinary propulsion.

667
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:32.760
Those are basically the speeds you need
to achieve to be able to perform interstellar

668
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:40.800
travel to the nearest stars in tens
of years basically. And we're breaching this

669
00:56:42.119 --> 00:56:49.840
in that are proposed Orion starship,
and assuming this is with the SLS rocket

670
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:54.119
system, that we will be kind
of at the cusp of those areas of

671
00:56:54.159 --> 00:56:59.679
speed. Well, I think the
Orion Starship was a was a nuclear fusion

672
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:05.440
starships, so those were some using
nuclear power. I don't think we're quite

673
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:10.320
at that stage yet, we're I
think the fastest object, the fastest propulsion

674
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:20.400
that's been considered is this are the
basically using a laser to shine onto a

675
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:25.039
small solar sale to accelerate a craft
out of the Solar system. And so

676
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:31.480
some of this this technique's being considered
for what does it break through starshot?

677
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:38.360
I think it's called which is a
mission. They're intending to send small cell

678
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:44.280
phone sized probes to Alpha century.
This way, the expected speeds should be

679
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:49.119
up to about twenty percent the speed
of light, So that means you're basically

680
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:53.599
going to get there in about twenty
years twenty year travel time to Alpha century.

681
00:57:55.599 --> 00:58:00.800
And okay, so, which just
kind of we're getting close or at

682
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:06.079
least we're starting to have ideas.
Yeah, we're having we have ideas,

683
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:09.960
and we're trying. So that's that's
the good thing. M hm. So

684
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:15.880
and then to speak kind of,
uh, I guess to move this along

685
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:21.760
to uh, I'll like you kind
of bring us there. I guess to

686
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:27.559
get to your breakaway kind of theory
or idea here. Sure, I'm basically

687
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:35.159
I had you know, growing up
watching science fiction, you always have your

688
00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:39.440
heroes, you know, dash off
at warp speed or go through hyperspace,

689
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:44.639
which is effectively faster than light travel, so they can get from one star

690
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:49.960
system to another and in a short
period of time. And basically, I

691
00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:52.039
like to think of it this way. You want to it's it's not a

692
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:57.679
fun it's not a fun science fiction
story. If it takes them fifty years

693
00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:00.360
to get to the to the star
system they want to get to, and

694
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:02.199
then they have to come back because
by the time they come back it's one

695
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:07.320
hundred years later. They're late for
dinner, very late for dinner, and

696
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:14.519
so it doesn't make for a good
science fiction tale. So a lot of

697
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:19.719
science fiction focuses on faster than light
travel, and I think that that has

698
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:25.639
kind of that fact has kind of
biased people, even scientists, into believing

699
00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:29.920
that the only way to get to
the nearest stars is to go faster than

700
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:35.639
light. Now, some scientists,
some physicists who've really thought about this,

701
00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:37.599
would realize, well, wait a
minute, you don't have to go faster

702
00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:42.679
than light. You can go as
long as you get up to relativistic speeds.

703
00:59:42.679 --> 00:59:46.719
You get going some reasonable percentage of
the speed of light, you find

704
00:59:46.719 --> 00:59:53.920
that relativity works for you. It
actually helps you out in that going very

705
00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:58.960
fast, you know, the clocks
on the spacecraft will be going moving more

706
00:59:58.960 --> 01:00:04.440
slowly relative to the and the rest
of the galaxy. And so while it

707
01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:07.239
may take one hundred years for the
ship to travel, you know, some

708
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:10.039
distance to the nearest star, it
will only for the travelers, depending on

709
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:14.519
how fast they go, it may
only take you know, a few days

710
01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:19.239
to months or whatever. It depends. It depends on the speed, so

711
01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:24.480
you A lot of physicists have realized
that using relative with relativity will work in

712
01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:29.320
your favor if you get going close
to the speed of light. However,

713
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:35.920
we don't have the technology to do
this. There are very serious engineering challenges.

714
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:40.599
The amount of energy required is insane. The fact that you're going to

715
01:00:40.639 --> 01:00:44.480
be barreling through space at close to
the speed of light, You're going to

716
01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:47.440
fly into things, so you need
to be able to shield your craft from

717
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:53.119
that. Space isn't empty. You've
got about one hydrogen atom per cubic meter,

718
01:00:54.800 --> 01:01:00.079
and so now when you're traveling at
close to relativistic speeds from the perspective

719
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:05.559
of the traveler, the distances actually
get shortened. So this whole the space

720
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:07.920
between you and the plant and the
star system you're heading to, actually shrinks

721
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:14.199
and it's compressed. But what that
does is that means that these these very

722
01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:17.880
diffuse hydrogen atoms in space are basically
compressed, and so before you know it,

723
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:22.679
you're flying through a wall of hydrogen
gas at close to the speed of

724
01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:28.519
light, which will tear your ship
apart in very short order. So so

725
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:32.880
I think most scientists who have realized
that you could travel from you know,

726
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:37.920
star to star moving at relativistic speeds. While that physically would work, the

727
01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:45.719
engineering challenges are so so difficult that
it's it's not really worth considering that.

728
01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:50.679
And the and the other problem is
that for those at home, it's still

729
01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:54.239
going to take you hundreds of years
to do it. So I've I've actually

730
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:58.159
heard a lot of scientists say,
so, what's the point? What civilization

731
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:01.519
would would do this? And I
was reading about that once and I actually

732
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:06.039
came across that statement. You know, it's even if you can go relativistic

733
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:08.960
speeds, the traveler could could traverse
those distances, but it would still take

734
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:15.760
years for those at home. So
what civilization would ever undertake such a challenge?

735
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:20.000
And I thought, well, it
wouldn't be so bad if you were

736
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:23.719
traveling with your friends, because you
just would meet up with your friends again

737
01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:29.760
and then you could you could share
information, and so it wouldn't you know,

738
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:36.559
that would that would work? And
then then I realized that you really

739
01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:40.920
would have to if you were an
interstellar traveler traveling at relativistic speeds, you

740
01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:45.239
would have to abandon this idea of
having a home world because you can't go

741
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:52.679
home again. It's equivalent really to
racing ahead into the future. So I

742
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:57.239
imagined that, you know, you
can still ask the question, what society

743
01:02:57.280 --> 01:03:00.440
would do that? Well, there
are societies who who just travel. We

744
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:07.119
call them nomads. They're nomadic.
And would anybody really do that? Well,

745
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:12.679
you can ask yourself, would anybody
really sign up to be part of

746
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:17.239
SpaceX's Mars Colony project or one way
trip to Mars? Yeah, hundreds of

747
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:21.199
people sign up for that. Of
course people would sign up for it.

748
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:27.440
People are crazy, You'll do all
sorts of things. So I thought,

749
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.880
you know, well, these societies
you could you could do this if you

750
01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:34.880
were nomadic, this would be really
pretty straightforward, as long as you had

751
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:39.559
the technology, which would have to
comforcome those serious engineering challenges. But if

752
01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:44.239
you had that technology, then you
know, I could travel off to a

753
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:46.480
star system thirty light years away.
You could travel off to another one thirty

754
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:50.960
light years away. We could agree
to meet back here in a few months,

755
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:54.039
and for us it would be a
few months later. For everybody back

756
01:03:54.039 --> 01:03:58.320
here on Earth it would be sixty
years later. But so what who cares

757
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:01.360
you? And I are me back
and that's that was the idea, right,

758
01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:06.039
So it's so interesting space time nomads
is what you call them. And

759
01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:10.760
you have this picture of which I
think is a perfect picture because it's what

760
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:14.719
I envisioned. Two. When you
first said it is a battlestar Galactica,

761
01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:16.880
that armada, you know, where
they were, it was the same thing.

762
01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:20.559
They were a breakaway society looking for
somewhere to live, whereas what you're

763
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:24.639
talking about is more of a society
going to be I guess, committed to

764
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:30.599
exploration and and even though yeah,
because they would be on their own if

765
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:35.079
if they left Earth at these tremendous
speeds and then came back, they may

766
01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:41.079
have gone to Alpha Centauri and back. And in their time it only was

767
01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:44.559
a couple of years, but in
our time it was it was hundreds of

768
01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:47.880
years. And so that's what why
they would be once they left, they're

769
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:55.119
saying goodbye to the rest of civilization. That's that's right, yep, really,

770
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:58.440
and it's kind of stunned me.
When I started working the numbers,

771
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:00.079
I was really surprised. I thought, realize that, wow, if you

772
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:05.320
traveled at if you traveled at one
hundred, well, if you traveled at

773
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:10.360
a one g acceleration, which is
the acceleration of gravity. And you could

774
01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:14.280
maintain that acceleration, you could get
across the galaxy in about twenty years your

775
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:20.199
time. And and I thought,
wow, that's actually much better than you

776
01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:25.719
know, plans that I've heard on
getting at Alpha century. So I was

777
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:30.280
I was rather surprised that you could
traverse those those great distances that quickly.

778
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:32.480
Now, of course, going from
one side of the galaxy to the other,

779
01:05:32.599 --> 01:05:35.199
it's going to you know, for
everybody on Earth, it'll take eighty

780
01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:39.280
thousand years for us to get there. You know, a one G acceleration,

781
01:05:40.079 --> 01:05:44.360
and a one G acceleration will put
you into speeds well above ninety nine

782
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:47.480
percent the speed of light, so
you'll be going very relativistic at that point.

783
01:05:48.280 --> 01:05:54.239
M Yeah, it's a really interesting
idea. And so and what you've

784
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:58.599
put together like it seems like the
precision would have to be very accurate.

785
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:02.559
So because one thing you reposes at
this large group, let's say a Battlestar

786
01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:09.920
Galactica type armata could head out and
then some decide to go explore one area,

787
01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:14.400
some explore another, and then they
have these meetup points. But right

788
01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:18.039
it would do they have to be
extremely precise, like to to the second

789
01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:23.360
or even more. Ah, yeah, they'd have to be relatively precise.

790
01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:28.679
You'd you would have to have,
you know, you'd require some dwell time

791
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:33.480
in the system that you're visiting,
you know, to make meetups more probable.

792
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:41.599
So these either would have to be
planned well in advance, or you'd

793
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:47.920
have to come up with a strategy
for for creating a network of traveling paths

794
01:06:48.119 --> 01:06:55.079
that such that the distances are commensurate
and you'll end up meeting at meeting every

795
01:06:55.119 --> 01:07:00.760
now and again at certain in certain
places. So I started, I basically

796
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:04.880
started modeling this to see what type
of constraints that would put on your your

797
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:12.440
the topology of the travelers network.
And so I'm still I'm still working on

798
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:15.440
this to see how this could work. But it's pretty cool. You have

799
01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:21.800
this video where you show at least
one network that you modeled, where you

800
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:27.480
know, these crafts kind of all
had out from one point and head out

801
01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:30.079
to where they're exploring and then also
head back to meet up points and such.

802
01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:34.360
Right, Yeah, So in that
example, I just had them travel

803
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:39.199
to a location and then and then
like a caravan to a location and then

804
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:43.039
the caravan would split up to other
locations and continue kind of like a tree

805
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:47.920
graph, and at every point they
could either travel to a new destination or

806
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:55.440
go back to an old one.
And I ran that simulation for two thousand

807
01:07:55.519 --> 01:08:01.519
and thirty years of time in the
galaxy and and just to see how this

808
01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:05.599
would work for the travelers. The
amount of time that the travelers experienced ranged

809
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:13.480
from from about eight months to two
years, so so, and so it

810
01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:15.880
kind of surprised me that, you
know, you've got you don't have that

811
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:20.560
much dispersion in time, even over
a two thousand year time period in the

812
01:08:20.560 --> 01:08:26.439
galaxy. And if they were a
little more careful about what star systems they

813
01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:30.840
visited, and they're the distances that
they traveled, they don't need to travel

814
01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:33.399
in straight lines. They could ark
slightly to increase the path length. If

815
01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:36.880
they made those path links commensurate,
then you'd increase the probability of meetups,

816
01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:42.920
which would which would work mm hmm. Now there's a danger if you're late

817
01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:46.439
to a meetup or if you have
a breakdown, you're kind of you're out

818
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:49.000
of the network. I mean,
yeah, if you well, if you're

819
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:53.760
late, if you're late, you
can hopefully catch up with somebody at another

820
01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:58.279
meetup at some other point and another
system and another time that would be good.

821
01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:01.840
A breakdown would be very bad.
So I'd imagine that you'd probably travel

822
01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:08.279
in caravans rather than rather than individually. Traveling as an individual would be extremely

823
01:09:08.359 --> 01:09:14.840
dangerous. If you break down your
you are likely not to see anybody you

824
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:18.439
know from your society for another you
know, hundreds of thousands of years,

825
01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:24.079
so you can't just sit around and
wait for somebody to help you. It

826
01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:28.479
would depend on it would depend on
the density of travelers in the network as

827
01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:32.319
well, So so depending on how
many travelers there are, you know,

828
01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:38.000
if you're not traveling in a caravan, would tell you how often new travelers

829
01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:43.399
arrive at a destination. So so
while these are all these are basically parameters

830
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:47.560
in the models that would describe how
a society like this would behave and an

831
01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:54.319
interesting uh you bring up some points
so for instant that uh you know.

832
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:58.359
One of the things that we saw
at the conference was this estimation of of

833
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:02.439
what uh speed you know, the
object at the two thousand and four Nimits

834
01:10:03.159 --> 01:10:12.600
encounter might have been achieving given the
observations of the pilot that David fever and

835
01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:19.159
others. So those are extreme speeds. Those are potential evidence that there might

836
01:10:19.239 --> 01:10:24.279
be somebody out there who's been able
to figure out this sort of thing out

837
01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:27.880
and they could be doing what you're
talking about, and if they are,

838
01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:33.399
it leads to an interesting perspective on
their side, which would, for instance,

839
01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:38.800
as you put it, make it
so there's no reason to make friends

840
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:43.640
with the locals. Right. Yeah, Basically I had to get some idea

841
01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:47.479
of what speeds you might see.
I basically estimated some of the accelerations in

842
01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:54.680
some of these cases, including the
Nimt's case that Robert Paul and Peter Reality

843
01:10:54.760 --> 01:11:00.600
looked at, and I found the
accelerations basically ranging from hundreds of geesleration to

844
01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:04.840
two thousand plus j's of accelerations.
So so I think in my models that

845
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:10.279
I used, I used it about
one hundred g acceleration and with you know,

846
01:11:10.279 --> 01:11:13.359
if you if so, if these
craft could sustain that kind of acceleration

847
01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:17.039
for a period of time, then
if you accelerated from you know, from

848
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:23.199
the Sun to your destination, and
if you accelerate halfway and then decelerat at

849
01:11:23.199 --> 01:11:27.000
that rate the other half of the
way, you could literally traverse the galaxy

850
01:11:27.039 --> 01:11:30.880
in about one hundred and twenty days
of ship time, so less than four

851
01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:34.279
months of travel time to get from
one side of the galaxy the other,

852
01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:39.760
which I thought would be really amazing. So so I took that as evid

853
01:11:39.960 --> 01:11:43.079
you know, so the people often
asked the question, you know, with

854
01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:47.479
these craft, why do people quickly
assume that they're spacecraft? And I think

855
01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:51.479
the answer is because the accelerations are
those what you would expect to see in

856
01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:57.680
a spacecraft, and in fact,
these aren't just this wouldn't be the ones

857
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:00.000
we saw that were encountered in the
Nimtz case. They would just be just

858
01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:05.880
any ordinary spacecraft. They'd be excellent
spacecraft. So I think that's interesting now

859
01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:10.960
they and then and then again.
So the point is that if you're traveling

860
01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:14.479
from one side of the galaxy to
the other, or even or even just

861
01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:18.920
a few hundred LA years, there's
really no reason to make friends with the

862
01:12:18.960 --> 01:12:26.359
locals, because the next time you're
here visiting, that's that civilization you were

863
01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:30.760
visited, you visited last time you
were here, would be could potentially be

864
01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:36.520
gone. So if so, if
you, for instance, by if you're

865
01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:40.840
traversing the galaxy, you know,
it's going to take you eighty thousand years

866
01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:44.800
to get from one side to the
other. That's one hundred sixty thousand years.

867
01:12:44.920 --> 01:12:48.479
So an individual who was who visited
Earth and then went to the other

868
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:54.199
side of the galaxy and came back
and came back at present day, that

869
01:12:54.279 --> 01:12:57.439
means the last time they were here
on Earth was one hundred sixty thousand years

870
01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.039
ago. Well, there were no
people here then, no society. There

871
01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:04.880
were people, but there were no
societies. And if they if they intend

872
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:08.479
to do and nothing to make another
trip like that, they won't be back

873
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:12.560
again for one hundred and sixty thousand
years. So why why bother landing on

874
01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:15.399
the White House lawn? There isn't
going to be a White House the next

875
01:13:15.399 --> 01:13:18.640
time they come back, right,
And another point you made was that you

876
01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:24.880
know there has been talked about the
similarity in what people have witnessed, you

877
01:13:24.880 --> 01:13:28.039
know, back in the forties to
what they witnessed now. Well, in

878
01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:32.119
this scenario that you put forth,
even though you know something was seen in

879
01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:38.199
the forties and then seen again in
the two thousands, it you know could

880
01:13:38.239 --> 01:13:42.359
have gone somewhere and come back and
to that craft, it's only been maybe

881
01:13:43.079 --> 01:13:46.359
last time it was here was lunch
and now it's the afternoon. So it's

882
01:13:46.399 --> 01:13:51.279
the same craft, right exactly.
Yeah, that's one thing that really surprised

883
01:13:51.279 --> 01:13:55.960
me because in that simulation I ran, I ran it for two thousand years,

884
01:13:56.119 --> 01:13:58.880
and it was only you know,
anywhere from eight months to two years

885
01:13:58.880 --> 01:14:03.079
for those individual crafts. So if
you imagine, you know, there were

886
01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:09.159
sightings of flying shields in ancient Rome, and if we would assume that those

887
01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:13.880
shields were actually one of these spacecraft, then it could actually be the same

888
01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:17.479
individuals in the same spacecraft that came
back a second time, you know,

889
01:14:17.479 --> 01:14:20.640
in present day, and the last
time they were here was too millennia ago.

890
01:14:21.279 --> 01:14:26.640
That's very possible. And so why
don't the craft change design? Why

891
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:30.479
don't they why don't they improve?
You know, why don't they Why don't

892
01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:35.239
you see technological improvements in these craft? Well, because they're the same craft,

893
01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:39.640
and that would be that would be
the answer in this case, which

894
01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:43.039
I thought was pretty surprising, but
it would make some kind of sense mm

895
01:14:43.159 --> 01:14:47.199
hmm. And then a unique opportunity
you talk about to kind of observe evolution.

896
01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:53.640
Yeah, that I thought was really
exciting. And I then thought,

897
01:14:53.640 --> 01:14:56.359
well, what I what if I
traversed the galaxy, you know, if

898
01:14:56.399 --> 01:15:00.079
I, if I, if I
did when did this, I would have

899
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.520
have, you know, every trip
across the galaxy, every round trip I'd

900
01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:08.960
take, would be one hundred and
sixty thousand years so of time in the

901
01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:15.239
galaxy. So if I in a
fifty year lifespan, I could conceivably traverse

902
01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:18.039
the galaxy one hundred and fifty times, and that would be equivalent to racing

903
01:15:18.079 --> 01:15:25.880
ahead about twelve million years into the
future. So I it would be very

904
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:30.159
interesting because you could literally watch,
you know, twelve million years of evolution

905
01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:34.880
happen on a planet, you know, at some sparse interval one hundred and

906
01:15:34.920 --> 01:15:39.920
fifty thousand year intervals, which would
be really interesting. I mean, you're

907
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:45.479
their biologists would be looking at biology
at a very different scale than we study

908
01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:48.159
biology, and I think that's you
know, they would be studying biology like

909
01:15:48.199 --> 01:15:55.800
paleontologists study biology. So you would
have the opportunity to watch evolution at work.

910
01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:00.239
And heck, you could experiment with
it if you wanted to. I

911
01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:05.439
think that's interesting and interesting possibility as
well. Yeah, you know what really

912
01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:12.000
hits me about your discussion and this
idea also is that we're not, especially

913
01:16:12.039 --> 01:16:15.479
when you look at your original graph
with you know, the speeds we're looking

914
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:19.399
to achieve in a fairly fairly near
well at least, you know, ideas

915
01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:24.319
that we think we can build craft
they can move at certain speeds. The

916
01:16:24.359 --> 01:16:30.680
potential exists for the not too distant
future. And I would imagine, just

917
01:16:30.680 --> 01:16:33.800
like you talked about, you know, people willing to go to Mars on

918
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:38.960
this one way trip. It's very
realistic that there could be a group of

919
01:16:38.960 --> 01:16:43.800
people that decide to do this and
I think so, yeah, and spend

920
01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:48.239
their life gathering amazing information, taking
a planet and observing its evolution. I

921
01:16:48.279 --> 01:16:51.840
mean, it's pretty extraordinary. Yeah, if you if I didn't have a

922
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:59.680
family, you could sign me up. Well, this is really interesting.

923
01:16:59.720 --> 01:17:02.920
I know that there will be more
information up about your talk on the SEU

924
01:17:03.119 --> 01:17:09.359
site eventually, but I do want
to say thank you very much for participating.

925
01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:14.159
And you know, as far as
the future goes, do you think

926
01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:17.319
that there is people interested in this
topic? Do you think there's hope?

927
01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:21.880
Do you see like kind of a
positive movement in the scientific community that at

928
01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:29.880
least began to be open to speculation
in this area. I do. I

929
01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:34.079
was nervous about the article that I
wrote for The Conversation where I basically said

930
01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:43.119
that we should be studying these phenomena, and I was worried about what kind

931
01:17:43.119 --> 01:17:46.319
of backlash or commentary I would get
from other scientists. And I was very

932
01:17:46.359 --> 01:17:51.520
surprised to see that I gotten a
good number of emails from other scientists and

933
01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:56.760
the responses were all positive. They
were all bravos. Somebody needed to say

934
01:17:56.800 --> 01:17:59.399
this for a long time. We've
needed to study these things for a long

935
01:17:59.439 --> 01:18:02.640
time. It's been you know,
fifty or seventy years, and nobody's really

936
01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:06.199
looked at this seriously, and we
ought to. And those were basically the

937
01:18:06.239 --> 01:18:10.600
kinds of comments that I got.
I got comments like that, ranging from

938
01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:15.640
that to to I've been studying this
in secret for for this many years,

939
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:19.560
and I have, you know,
images of plasma around these objects that I'm

940
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:23.600
trying to study, and I'm you
know, and things like this. You

941
01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:27.119
know, we should get together and
compare notes and I'll show you what I

942
01:18:27.159 --> 01:18:30.880
know. And so I had had
a lot of people very interested. And

943
01:18:30.960 --> 01:18:36.520
so I'm hoping that a scientific conference
like SEUs would be you know, is

944
01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:41.319
going to grow in size and you'll
see more scientists than next time around.

945
01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:44.800
Mm hm. And do you know
ed did you hear any feedback from that

946
01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:48.239
Harvard professor? Do you think you
influenced him? And all Abby Lowbe?

947
01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:51.479
I believe his name is oh Ave
Lobe. Yeah, I don't. I

948
01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:55.279
don't know him personally, and I
didn't have any feedback from him. I

949
01:18:55.279 --> 01:19:00.239
don't know what if, you know, if if my article influenced him at

950
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:02.479
all, or if it's just the
you know, a sign of the times.

951
01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:09.560
I think that the Luis Alisondo coming
out with the announcement about a tip

952
01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:13.960
was a big deal, and I
think it'll be a bigger deal after May.

953
01:19:14.319 --> 01:19:19.239
And I think that people are realizing
that, you know, our government's

954
01:19:19.239 --> 01:19:24.119
been studying these things for a long
time and they continue to study them.

955
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:29.399
I think that'll be a kind of
it will be a revelation to some and

956
01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:31.560
and in fact, there's other governments
studying them as well, and may that

957
01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:36.399
may induce some governments of some of
these other countries to come out and say,

958
01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:42.039
yeah, I know we've studied these
things too, and and and I'm

959
01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:45.520
hoping that that scientists will get involved
and we can start figuring out what these

960
01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:49.119
things are. And in some cases
they may be natural phenomena that are worth

961
01:19:49.159 --> 01:19:54.159
learning about. And in other cases
they might be artificial, you know,

962
01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:59.680
made by somebody else, maybe not
maybe, and maybe extraterrestrial. That's interesting

963
01:19:59.720 --> 01:20:04.880
too. So if I look at
it this way, if there were extraterrestrial

964
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:10.800
craft visiting Earth, we would all
want to know about it. We all

965
01:20:10.840 --> 01:20:16.319
ought to know about it. So
it's worth looking into and so and it's

966
01:20:16.359 --> 01:20:21.119
worth studying. Well, thank you
so much for joining me this morning or

967
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:26.880
afternoon for you, I guess out
there on the East coast. But thank

968
01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:30.800
you so much for joining. This
has been so very interesting and I look

969
01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:32.760
forward to one day having you back. All right, thank you very much

970
01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:36.640
for having me. Thank you so
much to Kevin for being on the show.

971
01:20:36.680 --> 01:20:41.159
It was so great to have him. I guess you could google his

972
01:20:41.279 --> 01:20:47.479
name and also look him up at
the Albany State University of New York and

973
01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:50.760
to read more about him. But
he's got a lot of really cool stuff

974
01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:54.880
going on. Of course in the
science world, he's doing lots of cool

975
01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:59.520
stuff as well. The lecture that
he did for the Scientific Coalition before you

976
01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:03.239
fall it at this event, this
AAPC event, was great, So we

977
01:21:03.359 --> 01:21:08.000
kind of covered generalized what he was
talking about, but I can't wait for

978
01:21:08.039 --> 01:21:13.119
you to see the full presentation.
He said. He did permission for the

979
01:21:13.159 --> 01:21:17.840
SEU to post that, so keep
an eye at explore SCU dot org.

980
01:21:18.239 --> 01:21:23.520
And it looks like they're going to
be putting the videos up in the AAPC

981
01:21:23.880 --> 01:21:27.640
link, so you can see that
there. And they've got pictures from the

982
01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:30.880
event of all of the presenters and
it looks like that's where they're going to

983
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:34.119
put the videos as well. So
very excited for you all to see that

984
01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:40.760
because there were just some incredible lectures, including Kevin's here, and actually there

985
01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:45.479
were funnier jokes in the presentation too. Kevin, It's just absolutely a ton

986
01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:48.640
of fun to listen to, and
his lecture was a lot of fun.

987
01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:54.239
So really happy to have him involved
in and thankful that we have someone of

988
01:21:54.279 --> 01:21:58.399
his stature and background, you know, to be here to answer questions and

989
01:21:58.479 --> 01:22:02.319
to speculate and give us some magic
ideas on some things that could be going

990
01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:05.399
on out there. I think that
one of the things I really love about

991
01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:11.680
is talk is this perspective thing that
if time is much different to whatever may

992
01:22:11.720 --> 01:22:16.000
be coming here, if there is
something coming here then that may explain some

993
01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:21.560
of their enigmatic behavior and or motivations, and that we haven't really taken a

994
01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:27.279
lot of that into consideration. I
don't think, so really interesting to hear

995
01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:32.199
him talk on that. Also,
congratulations to the SCU for putting together an

996
01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:36.000
event that I think is one of
the most important ones too have been put

997
01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:41.880
together on all of this, so
great job to them. Be sure to

998
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:47.560
check out explore SCU dot org for
the official releases of information. And then

999
01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:55.840
Kevin talked about control and making sure
that information is released properly and of course

1000
01:22:55.920 --> 01:23:00.600
that all of the proper permissions are
obtained are very very very important to scientists.

1001
01:23:00.600 --> 01:23:06.439
So you'll be able to find the
official releases of information at explore SCU

1002
01:23:06.800 --> 01:23:13.239
dot com. By the way,
if you're interested in helping out the Scientific

1003
01:23:13.239 --> 01:23:18.319
Coalition for Ufology, there are a
couple positions they are looking for. I

1004
01:23:18.399 --> 01:23:23.479
actually am helping out. You know. My aspect is as an advisor when

1005
01:23:23.520 --> 01:23:27.039
it comes to the press and communications
and things like that, and to that

1006
01:23:27.199 --> 01:23:30.920
effect, one of the things we're
looking at, at least for internal communications

1007
01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:34.239
is someone who can help with that, help with maybe sending out emails,

1008
01:23:34.239 --> 01:23:39.920
board even more so being in the
board meetings and taking notes and sharing that

1009
01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:45.159
information internally as well, So this
is kind of an internal information gathering and

1010
01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:50.600
sharing responsibility. But what's great about
this is that this position's going to be

1011
01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:56.600
able to keep up to speed on
all of the really cool things that SCU

1012
01:23:56.840 --> 01:24:00.960
is looking to do. What are
they looking to do. They obtain entries

1013
01:24:01.039 --> 01:24:05.880
essentially white papers, investigations that people
have done out there, and then they

1014
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:12.199
reveal them like a scientific organization would
do, to make sure that the science

1015
01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:15.760
is vetted it's good science, good
research, and then those are posted.

1016
01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:18.119
Really there's only a couple of papers
that have been out there, but there

1017
01:24:18.119 --> 01:24:21.960
are some in the mix as well
that are under review currently. So we're

1018
01:24:21.960 --> 01:24:28.479
going to see really good stuff coming
from this group going forward. And already

1019
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.560
you can click on a link called
papers and you're going to see a lot

1020
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:35.119
of case reports, science papers.
Not all of these are SCU papers,

1021
01:24:35.159 --> 01:24:41.199
but papers that have been written in
the past that are our scientific papers.

1022
01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:45.239
So this is kind of going to
be a repository for everybody on scientific analysis

1023
01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:50.159
and information regarding this topic. So
really good stuff. But these guys did

1024
01:24:50.279 --> 01:24:55.359
a great job. So if you're
interested in helping on doing some of that

1025
01:24:55.479 --> 01:24:59.119
internal communications. Get a hold of
me. You can send an email to

1026
01:25:00.239 --> 01:25:05.520
Paranormal Reporter at gmail dot com.
Also, you can go to my Facebook

1027
01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:10.800
or my Twitter. Just look for
Alejandro Rojas. If you type Alejandro Rojas

1028
01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:13.600
UFOs, you're gonna find me.
So yeah, send me a message and

1029
01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:16.520
we'll get you rolling on that.
Thank you very much for your interests,

1030
01:25:16.520 --> 01:25:20.479
and thanks for meeting some of you
guys at SEU, some of my listeners,

1031
01:25:20.520 --> 01:25:26.560
because my listeners are extremely intelligent.
Although not all of you have PhDs,

1032
01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:29.399
you all should and you could if
you wanted to. You know,

1033
01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:30.840
if you had the time, you
could do it. You guys are like

1034
01:25:31.159 --> 01:25:36.159
super geniuses. But it was great
to have so many listeners there and to

1035
01:25:36.199 --> 01:25:40.560
be able to meet some of you. So that was a lot of fun,

1036
01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:45.000
and in fact I wanted to do
some shout outs. Kevin, who

1037
01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:46.760
I met. That's the name of
someone I met. I met a lot

1038
01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:54.800
of people, but in particular I
want to say hello and thank you to

1039
01:25:55.439 --> 01:25:58.800
some of my patrons. So I
want to say thank you to Amy,

1040
01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:05.319
to Andrew, to David, to
Evan, to Gary Guillame, James,

1041
01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:14.199
Jason, Joseph Kendra, Kevin,
Layla, let's see who else Less and

1042
01:26:14.279 --> 01:26:19.680
maybe Leela, Laila, Richard,
Ron and Ryan and let's see there's a

1043
01:26:19.720 --> 01:26:24.840
couple more. Stewart, thank you
all so much to you know, patron's

1044
01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:29.680
new and old for helping me with
what I do at the Patreon website.

1045
01:26:30.159 --> 01:26:32.680
It's a ton of help. It's
greatly appreciated. And if you are a

1046
01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:38.119
Patreon member, you can go there
and see more information as well and contact

1047
01:26:38.159 --> 01:26:42.680
me on there, and I do
share some secret information there. In fact,

1048
01:26:42.680 --> 01:26:45.439
with my patreons, I kind of
shared more information about what I'm up

1049
01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:48.680
to and what I'm going to be
doing in the future. So you can

1050
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:54.119
go check that out there if you're
a Patron, otherwise just listen to the

1051
01:26:54.159 --> 01:26:59.640
show. I'll share that information with
you either way. More information getting shared

1052
01:26:59.640 --> 01:27:02.720
with you about the UFO Congress,
So if you were getting the Open Minds

1053
01:27:03.079 --> 01:27:09.439
newsletters, you know there. We
have been in this transition for email,

1054
01:27:09.560 --> 01:27:13.039
so the email server we have is
not working. That's why I didn't say

1055
01:27:13.279 --> 01:27:19.159
send an email to contacted open minds
dot com instead, you know what,

1056
01:27:19.359 --> 01:27:24.640
I've been trying to work with that, But the UFO Congress has got their

1057
01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:28.720
email system up, and it's kind
of a lot of the people that were

1058
01:27:28.760 --> 01:27:32.039
on the really it was hard to
tell the difference because the Congress and Open

1059
01:27:32.079 --> 01:27:35.720
Minds were combined and now the Congress
is just separate. So you may get

1060
01:27:35.720 --> 01:27:41.840
emails from the UFO Congress. Please
don't hit the junk mail if you don't

1061
01:27:41.840 --> 01:27:44.600
want those emails. If you don't
want them, that is just fine.

1062
01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:49.359
I totally understand, but do hit
the unsubscribed button and you will be unsubscribed.

1063
01:27:49.520 --> 01:27:54.359
Don't hit that junk mail when that
hurts us. But I would really

1064
01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:57.600
recommend that you stay on the email
list because you're going to get the latest

1065
01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:01.439
information that we're sharing right on that
list. So you're going to get Open

1066
01:28:01.439 --> 01:28:08.520
Minds information, information about this podcast, information about the conference itself. And

1067
01:28:08.560 --> 01:28:12.560
we have a lot of great speaker
coming up to the conference. I'll tell

1068
01:28:12.600 --> 01:28:15.760
you Lou is going to be there, and a lot of things related to

1069
01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:19.760
what Lou is up to. So
for a little hint on some of the

1070
01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:24.319
great speakers speaking of which, of
course, one of the big things Lou's

1071
01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:29.760
Alessando is up to with to the
Stars Academy and Tom DeLong in that whole

1072
01:28:29.800 --> 01:28:34.880
group working with Lou Alessando, the
former chief of that Pentagon UFO project,

1073
01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:40.600
who spoke at the SCU is this
History Channel show that they have coming up

1074
01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:45.079
called Unidentified and it's going to be
really important. Lou says he's seen some

1075
01:28:45.279 --> 01:28:48.359
episodes that they're really good. What
he's seems so far that they're working with

1076
01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:53.199
very professional people. This is some
of what he's shared at the conference.

1077
01:28:53.439 --> 01:28:56.359
Of course, I'm going to have
an interview with him in just the next

1078
01:28:56.439 --> 01:29:00.960
few weeks where we'll talk about more
of all of this, But he did

1079
01:29:00.039 --> 01:29:05.720
share with us that much of what
he couldn't share is going to be in

1080
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:12.880
the show. So for example,
there the Nimitz case is incredible and it's

1081
01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:15.279
just an extraordinary case. We've talked
a lot about it. The two thousand

1082
01:29:15.279 --> 01:29:19.640
and four case, it was in
the New York Times article that you know,

1083
01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:25.079
kind of released the information on Alexander
and the Pentagon program. You'll see

1084
01:29:25.119 --> 01:29:30.039
more about that too when you see
the video of the SEU analysis on that.

1085
01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:38.000
But you will also see on the
television show even more cases that the

1086
01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:45.399
Pentagon Project worked on and witnesses from
these events as well. So finally,

1087
01:29:45.439 --> 01:29:48.840
what we've all been waiting for what
we've all been hoped hoping for. It's

1088
01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:53.720
going to be in this History Channel
project program that's coming up here, so

1089
01:29:54.159 --> 01:29:58.600
really exciting. That show starts up
in May, and we should have a

1090
01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:02.159
lou on before that us even more
so that'll be really exciting as well.

1091
01:30:02.640 --> 01:30:09.000
So Otherwise, check out Openminds dot
tv. All of those stories that Martin

1092
01:30:09.039 --> 01:30:13.159
and I spoke about at the beginning
of the program I have listed on the

1093
01:30:13.199 --> 01:30:17.960
front page there under the UFO headlines. Also check out ufocongress dot com for

1094
01:30:18.159 --> 01:30:24.279
updates. We'll be opening tickets and
putting up speaker lists soon. Also at

1095
01:30:24.359 --> 01:30:28.840
ufocongress dot com there's a store with
a bunch of really cool UFO and Alien

1096
01:30:28.960 --> 01:30:30.760
products that you'll want to check out. So if you're into that sort of

1097
01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:34.039
thing, wearing those clothes and stuff, they're super cool, so check out

1098
01:30:34.039 --> 01:30:40.600
the store there. Otherwise, I
want to thank Martin Willis a podcast UFO

1099
01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:44.640
for joining us at the beginning of
the show. I want to thank Systematics

1100
01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:48.800
for the bumper music, Caleb Hanks
for the amazing open and closed music.

1101
01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:54.199
And finally, of course I want
to thank you the listener for being here.

1102
01:30:54.279 --> 01:30:57.479
Once again, thank you for hanging
in there. It's been a few

1103
01:30:57.560 --> 01:31:00.560
weeks since we've had a show,
but we're going to be better, and

1104
01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:03.600
we'll have another great show next week
and a bunch of incredible shows coming up.

1105
01:31:04.159 --> 01:31:06.640
We're kind of got a new era, I feeled, you know,

1106
01:31:08.079 --> 01:31:13.319
like moving in a more credible and
important direction with this topic than we've ever

1107
01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:16.720
done before, So we'll probably have
some slight changes coming in and just kind

1108
01:31:16.800 --> 01:31:20.279
of bringing everything to a better and
higher level. So this is all going

1109
01:31:20.319 --> 01:31:24.000
to be a lot of fun,
and it's going to be fun having you

1110
01:31:24.239 --> 01:31:29.319
all along on this journey as well. So thank you all so much for

1111
01:31:29.399 --> 01:32:21.760
listening. Until next time, Audio
Smooth, Chochos, You mus