WEBVTT

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All right, listen up, Cave's
I got your assignments, riga six four

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three wheeler one four eight not eight
oh four and only you. You need

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to join host HP and Father Malone
as they examine one of the greatest sitcoms

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in television history, Taxi in Night
Mister Walters, a taxi podcast, Bantha

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zero like your boxing record, Frank, mister Walters, weird way, Good

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evening, Midnight Viewers. Father Malone
Here tonight, we're talking to mister Jeffrey

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Wolf. He started his career as
an editor, working on films like Mikey

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and Nicky, the Whiz and Network, and would eventually work with such diverse

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filmmakers as Arthur Penn, Ted Demi, and The Sultan of Sleeves mister John

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Waters. But he's here to discuss
the eight episodes he edited and the one

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he directed for Tales from the Dark
Side. You'll find that interview at the

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halfway point of the show. Welcome
back to Midnight Viewing, the Horror anthology

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podcast, where the season we're taking
a look at George A. Romero's nineteen

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eight the series Tales from the Dark
Side. Sharing the Midnight view with me

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are the Culture Cast Chris Stashue.
I wanted to do something from the Warriors,

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but I just forgot the goddamn quote. Also joining us as the Projection

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Booths, Michael White. That's right, you said you'd kill me last even

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better. Now tonight we're taking a
look at two episodes from season one.

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They are Slippage and Inside the Closet. Slippage season one, episode number six.

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It originally aired on November the eleventh, nineteen eighty four. This was

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written by Mark Durand from a story
by Michael Cube McDowell. That's not our

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Talilson the dark signs Michael McDowell,
It's a whole other Michael McDowell. Michael

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Cube McDowell. He's a novelist and
a short story writer. And this one

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was directed by Michael Gornick, who
is absolutely George a Romero Royalty. He's

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been his DP since Martin, and
I believe is his directorial debut. This

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one stars in David Patrick Kelly.
I think he'd been at least two Luther's

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by this point, if not three. I mostly know him as Jerry Horn

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him and that frecking bree sandwich from
I was just thinking that that's every time

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I think of David Patrick Kelly.
I can't help but think the man who

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turned me on to bread and bree
you know, big old bagette. Oh

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anyway. It was also stars Philip
Kasnoff, Kerry Armstrong and David Lippman,

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who's a perpetual law and order judge. It is the story of a graphic

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designer who slowly begins to slip out
of existence. Anyway, what do you

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think of this one, Mike?
I remember when I believe it was Bruce

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Willis was having a very similar problem
to what Rich Hall not Rich Hall from

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not Necessarily the News and SCTV no
not SCTV SNL, famous for the invention

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of sniglets. I remember when.
Yeah, it felt very shatter day.

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To me, this felt very familiar
as far as somebody slipping out of their

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existence. And unfortunately people didn't start
talking nonsense before he slipped out of existence

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or else that would have reminded me
of another episode of Twilight Song. But

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yeah, it was all right.
I mean, I love David Patrick Kelly,

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so seeing him was pretty good.
I don't know, we're as buddy

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and girlfriend. Were they having an
affair or did he just think that they

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were having an affair, like I
was a little unsure about that, but

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overall, yeah, it's all right. It doesn't benefit from the fact that

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something like a shatter Day exists.
And I don't get what's going on here

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in a lot of ways, like
I David Patrick Kelly's just monologuing a lot

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about like Richard Hull, kid less
and less to connect, and he started

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to slip through the cracks of time, like best I can tell, all

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these things were actually happening to him, not because of him, unless that

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that was going on before the episode, which I can't get the sense of

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that, because he seems when he
starts finding out things aren't happening, he

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seems rather proactive about it, or
at least more pro well, maybe reactive,

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maybe not proactive, but like,
how do you also know something that

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you don't know is happening? But
it's weird, Like I don't I get

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what the premise is getting at,
And I get this idea of like someone

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who's not connected with time any more
effectively disappearing, but that in my read

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of what was happening here isn't what
was going on. And then there's like

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a weird like coda to the episode
that I understand even less because I guess

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now he's literally invisible question mark there. Yeah, the performances were fine,

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but I'm the narrative itself is a
little all over the place, to say

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the least. This has the same
problem as Shatterday, which is we don't

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get to know the guy enough before
this begins to happen to him. In

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the case of Shatter Day, it's
pretty well laid out at least that he

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has been doing nothing with his life
and right passed over and he doesn't care.

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He doesn't call his mother, and
he doesn't give a shit about that

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girlfriend that he abandoned. So we're
given all of that here. This is

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a different story. This story seems
to want to be hey, guess what,

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Sometimes you just fucking wink out of
existence, But instead it tries to,

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at the end, with David Patrick
Kelly's final monologue, give us this

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idea that he hadn't engaged in life
at all, and so he slipped through

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a crack in existence. And I
don't know, it just didn't feel like

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he deserved that. You're right,
he did seem proactive about things. It

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wasn't like he was letting life pass
him By. It was just like,

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as soon as he realizes there's a
problem, he tries to fix it.

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So I don't understand why he's being
punished unless it's just, hey, it

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is that random thing sometimes, motherfucker, because that I really understand. But

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it doesn't seem like that. It
all seems very like intentional in a way

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that he can't control, but he's
trying to correct and I just don't get

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it, Like, oh, this
other guy got the job and they couldn't

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find his social Security or anything.
I couldn't even find his portfolio. It's

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like, did this guy even apl
Like, oh, do you know what

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it was? It was that little
shit eating kid from the first episode that

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oh, yeah, that's what this
is again. I mean, in a

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lot of ways, it did remind
me of that episode in that like,

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what is happening here is really not
fully explained, at least not in a

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satisfying way. Maybe it's kind of
meant to be more ambiguous, which is

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fine, but I just I don't
understand what they were getting at. I

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would like to mention because he showed
up in the last episode and his name

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shows up again. Original music by
tom Noonan in this episode yeah, he

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wrote music for his episode. And
here's one of two things that is happening,

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and I will ascertain this problem and
follow up in a future episode.

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But one of two things occurred.
Either he laid down some beds and sold

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them a couple of beds of tracks
that they're continuing to use, or someone

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has mislabeled the credits of the original
sales from the Dark Side, because as

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far as I know, he was
not writing the incidental music for this episode,

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right did for his own, and
I believe that that's probable. But

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you got to remember that these episodes
were being produced on either coast, so

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this one is a I believe a
West Coast episode. No, this is

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an East Coast episode, so I
don't know. It would be a little

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more likely that they would have used
him, but I don't understand why they

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would have anyway, I'll figure that
out and get back to you guys on

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that one. And the other thing
I didn't understand about this episode. So

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we have the David Patrick Kelly character
going like I didn't get invited to my

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reunion. They found they like,
I applied for this job and they haven't

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found my application. My wife is
applying for a car in her maiden name,

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not her married name, and all
of those them things seem like they

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could have happened accidentally. And then
all of a sudden, like his friends

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are like trying to figure out how
to help him, and they're like,

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we his mom doesn't recognize him,
and it's like, why do you guys

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recognize him at this moment? Like, I just I didn't understand what was

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going on in terms of how the
mechanism of him disappearing worked within the narrative

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and how it was manifesting in the
lives of the people, because like we

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see his mom literally not recognize him, but his friends recognize him until they

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don't, like literally he recognizes him
in that scene, until he's like who's

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rich and it's like wait, what, like literally on a dime, it

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can happen. Yeah, And he
seems to know what's going on because he's

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got those three pictures. Here I
am as a baby, here, I

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am now here, I am in
the future, but I'm never going to

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get to this future. I'm like, okay, right, yeah, it's

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unusual again that he just sort of
worked it out and then decided to graphically

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draw it just in case anyone drop
by. Look, the fact is the

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following year, in nineteen eighty five, Twilight Zone would do this so much

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better with Shatter Day. Any little
quibble you just heard me mentioned about Shatter

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Days, wipe that away. That's
a great version of the story that this

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trying to tell. That story which
was originally published in Gallery magazine in nineteen

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seventy five by Harlan Ellison. This
story slippage was originally published in nineteen eighty

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two in twilight Zone magazine. Ironically
enough, super ironically enough, because at

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the same time Harlan Ellison had a
column in that magazine he sign It's nineteen

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eighty four aerobics. Dave Patrick Kelly
has a couple of jaunty buttons on his

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jacket. I didn't get a close
up of them, but it's just they're

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there, just to let us know
he's artistic. I don't care if your

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favorite movie is It's a Wonderful Life. The only time to watch that is

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Christmas and this did not seem like
a Christmas episode. That was a fucking

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weird move, just to throw that
in to let us know that they know

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that, we know that, they
know that. Yeah, I mean that

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that's all it is, right,
That's literally all it is. It's just

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to be like wink wink, nod
nod. We get that we're doing like

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the it's a wonderful life thing like
but like, you know what, the

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worst thing you can do in mediocre
media is remind us of something much better,

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which is exactly what they did intentionally
too. Like again, it's all

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there's always an intent, but sometimes
it's like, oh, we just had

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it, you know, some cheeky
production designer put it on the TV during

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a scene like no, they say, hey, it's a wonderful life is

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odd? Would you like to watch
it? Like? Where? What?

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How about we go to the cinema
and see it? Yeah, let us

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get some popcorn and drink please.
My favorite snigglet snargling. That's when you

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look through crooked fingers during a horror
movie because you want to watch but can't

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can't take it. Snargling anyway,
Once again, I want to remark on

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David Patrick Kelly, how fucking great
he is here. This is David Patrick

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Kelly around the time he did that
Dreamscape movie. Oh yeah, I'm now

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yeah, I'm now urging everyone within
the sound of my voice to go watch

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if you haven't seen it. He
is so fucking good in that movie,

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and it's a good movie in general. Okay, gentlemen, we all have

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significant others, right, sure,
I'm sure in the course of our relationships

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we've all fought with those people at
some point or another, right, sometimes

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bitterly, sometimes to the point where
you think, what the hell is going

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on here? But I gotta tell
you, never, once, ever,

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in my life, have I ever
thought it might be better if this person

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hadn't been born. Our female lead
says that could you imagine thinking that ever

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about someone you loved? If I
said it, I really hope that the

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Tales from the Dark Side isn't listening
to it. I mean really, like

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you know what I mean, Like
that's the thing. It's like, I

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mean, I can imagine getting to
that point, but like uttering it out

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loud, Yeah, yeah, it's
a lot, Like it's a lot,

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and she like yeah. The moment
she says that, you're like, well,

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there goes him. He's fucked,
Like yeah, Like they don't need

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him to wink out of existence.
Obviously you two weren't involved with Like maybe

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they're the promption they be slipping out
of it. I don't know the fact

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that they frame it at the end
that this is somehow his fault, like

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just pisses me off of this episode. It robs the episode of any of

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its emotional weight, like completely,
I don't understand what we're supposed to take

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away from the episode if it's his
fault. And also, is he now

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just invisible? Because how does one
see the invisible man? Yeah? I

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mean I was thinking of the incredible
shrinking man, like maybe he would just

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keep fading and fading and fading,
like he reaches one dimension where we don't

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see him anymore and it's just keeps
getting, you know, less and less.

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But yeah, that whole weird door
opening closing, I'm like, oh,

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so he's still with us. I
thought he slipped into nothingness. But

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yeah, that was that really was
like a very false note to end on.

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Yeah, because if they yes,
because if they wanted us to know

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that he saw them completely forget him
and don't wink him out of existence until

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the last moment. By the way, that the shot of him actually winking

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out of existence was great. Michael
Gornick is a fantastic DP and he's working

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with I believe Ernest Dickerson here that
the episode is shot wonderfully. It's just

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that this story is so disappointing given
everything we've been getting on Dark Side,

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and with the comparison of another series
that we covered where they fucking nailed it,

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and because David Patrick Kelly is so
good, like even though he's saddled

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with this kind of thankless role of
being like the guy who everybody else forgetting,

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but the episode is trying to convince
us that he's the one forgetting.

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You can put yourself in that guy's
shoes for two seconds, and like you,

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you would be just as haired as
he is by the end of it.

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And I think he plays it rather
well. I just don't think the

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episode has any interest in actually mining
any emotional weight here. It's just I

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don't know what it's trying to do. Be cheeky, I whatever it's trying

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to do, I don't think it
succeeds on any front in terms of a

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like lasting emotional impact at the end
of the episode. Yeah, which is

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a real shame, because, like
you were saying, father, I'm alone.

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There is a lot of talent behind
this. There's a lot of talent

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in front of the camera. I
love David Patrick Kelly. But and again,

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you know, we were talking in
the last episode about why do you

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have to be Hedrin in this and
you don't give her anything to do well,

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It's like you've got David Patrick Kelly, but you've got him with were

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not lightweights, and I'm like,
no, give me other people. Either

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make him more or and I hate
to say this, more present, or

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get some better supporting actors so that
you feel that there's some evenness to these

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roles because I'm just looking at him
and I don't care about the other two

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at all because they're not capturing me. Yeah, this needn't have been a

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story of ambiguity. We didn't need
half the episode to wonder, hey,

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what's going on here? It should
have begun with you're no longer here and

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then he goes to his girl who
knocks on the girlfriend's door. You know,

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it should have been an escalation.
They have David Patrick Kelly here to

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watch him for twenty minutes in misery
would be a wonderful viewing experience. I

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mean, I know that sounds terrible, but you know it is what you're

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saying, Mike, like, he
should have been more present in the episode.

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Everyone else was a waste of time. They weren't engaging characters, they

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were just there to I don't know
the script is the problem here. Everyone

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in front of and behind the camera
are operating very very well. For that

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one actor. It's a shame because
it has the makings of a great episode,

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but I think it just really stumbles
seemingly at every opportunity it gets.

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I actually learned. I learned a
lot of that far from Tom Savini,

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who was afraid of spiders until he
went out and got a black widow and

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let a crawl around him for a
week or so so that, you know,

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so that he could overcome us fear. But I believe that's called the

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exposure method, Right, you're afraid
of thunderstorm like g Gordon Lyddy was famous

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for that. He tied himself to
a tree during a lightning storm to get

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over that fear. But it's so
much better coming from Tom Sevini. It

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was a way of if I could
scare myself that I knew that something good

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was happening. So that was always
the intention on that show. I didn't

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really come from that kind of the
films I had worked on previously, had

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a little but not scary. Email
way, let's talk about that. Listen,

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midnight viewers, we're talking with Jeffrey
Wolf. He is Tales from the

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Dark Side of Royalty, edited eight
episodes, directed one but let's yeah yeah,

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and direct or worked with on two
of the best with you just mentioned

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him. Tom Savigni, who I'm
dying to talk about those episodes. But

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you say you weren't in horror beforehand. What were you working on leading up

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and how did you get to Tales
from the Dark Side? Mostly I come

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through the system in New York.
I worked on a movie called Mikey and

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Nikki with John Casabedes and Peter Follock. I worked on The Godfather for television.

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I worked on Network and how is
that experience? Please say anything you

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can about that genius movie and kind
of an apprentice roles and then assistant roles

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and then sound roles. It's at
the time. He kind of moved through

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the system, but they were mostly
kind of Hollywood or and or in New

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York based Hollywood style movies. But
I did have an independent bet in me

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and at a festival, New York
Independent Film Festival, I met a woman

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named jan Saunders who was one of
the producers early on on Dark Side,

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and I think that's how I got
on, But earlier today, I was

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looking at some of the other people. I kind of remember there were one

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or two people there before me.
But at a certain point it was a

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rotation, like you mentioned Rob Dreber. I mean I would do every other

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one and he would shoot every other
one. And you know, a few

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other editors were in the same kind
of boat, and we often we were

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doing it because they weren't like I
think at the time, there were a

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hundred thousand dollars budgets for each one
and at the you know, and they

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were like shaving dollars off every two
seconds, as you can imagine. And

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I think that like all of us, if we got a bigger feature to

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do or something else to do it, we'd bleed for a while. Then

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if there's a show that they would
come back and things like that. But

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also, you know, it's interesting
that you don't cut the monsters yet me

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down, because I had a lot
of fun with those too, and I

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was sort of the same directing those
and that was kind of in not saying

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jeanre So you know, you get
a little bit I ended up doing comedy.

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Basically the kinds of films I would
do is comedy and scary, you

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know, kind of scary films.
I did a Brad Anderson movie called Vanishing

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on Seventh Street, came out a
couple of years ago. I remember,

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I love that movie. You also, you know, you were working at

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a time in New York when there
were a bunch of movies that were coming

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out that I think are wildly underrated. You worked on Penn and Teller Get

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Killed. I edit, did Penneller
get Killed? Yes? What did that?

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But that was the you know,
that's their shiit, you know there

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It was a movie about two magicians
who shoot themselves in the foot all the

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time. And then body kind of
did that as well. But I heard

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right, so you know I was. I just did a panel on Saturday

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Night for DEDI al and related to
Bonnie and Clyde and so Arthur Penn,

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who directed Penn and Teller Get Killed, which is kind of a bizarre concept

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that it's own right truly. But
Arthur told me in that famous scene at

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the end of the movie where they
get red old with machine guns that the

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Warrens paps didn't go off only face
did, and so she's like exploding all

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over the place and he's just stating
with the stumb look on his face.

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And that's that was one of the
ways we wanted to end. Christ had

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00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.000
tell her to stand there, have
Penn exploded, and that being I take

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a truck on a highway or something
like that. Anyway, Yes, well,

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since we're you know what, since
we've stepped sort of outside, we're

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talking about your feature work. I
spoke to you a little bit in the

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email. Can you tell me about
your work with mister Ted Demi. I

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think I think he's a fucking hero, not only for creating you know,

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00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:11.200
MTV wrap absolutely revolutionary, like about
time somebody did that on that goddamn channel.

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But that goes off and makes like
an irreverent feature in sort of a

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dark comedic feature. He made the
rep if it doesn't play in people's houses

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on Christmas, what's wrong with you? It is one of the best Christmas

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movies ever. It's actually rated pretty
high in terms of Christmas movies. But

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it's dark, you know, So
I think in this day and age,

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it may get more attention because people
are willing to go that way. But

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so, you know, Ted is
the nephew of ped Jonathan Denny. He

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went to high school with a lover. That's how he knew him from P

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Tod and so, you know,
it was unusual. It has heard that

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black white combination at the time,
so it kind of made this It made

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that show smooth in some way.
And then so from that he got he

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got a gate I don't know if
you ever saw it, but called Who's

300
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the Man? Oh yeah, and
so it's soundtrack on rotation and my CD

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player at that time. So Doctor
Dre and Ed Lubber were kind of like

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the Black Avenue castello, and in
fact, Doctor Dre got his name before

303
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:22.039
the payments Doctor Dre. But but
you know, that movie was very It

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was very interesting because Bob Shit knew
I actually saw it as a potential cressover

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movie, not just a black audience
movie, and so they kind of released

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it that way. And then we
developed this relationship and we did some pretty

307
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:40.160
interesting movies, not only The ref
but Beautiful Girls and a movie called Monument

308
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Avenue with Dennis Leary. Just about
to mention Monument Avenue. I grew up

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in Revere, just a stones throw
from Charles Town, so I love that

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00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:55.000
flake and let's see what other Oh, it'd been late, which was supposed

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to be supposed to be kind of
a swinging grazer. He thought it was

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going to be a swinging piic movie
and it turned into kind of, you

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know, funny, but also a
little Yeah, there was a little bit

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of remorse. And in fact,
there's an amazing scene that the studio made

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us take out. It's a two
minute scene. I just want to mention

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00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.279
it quickly, but a two minute
scene was Cecily Tyson coming playing his mother,

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00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:26.920
Eddie Murphy's mother, and she comes
to the prison camp and he explains

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to her that he didn't want to
be like his father. He really wanted

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to be legit. And the guy
kind of got caught in this thing and

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the rest of his life was spent
there. So yeah, so Ted was

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like a guy. I don't know, he was not the first person to

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do this, but the comedy came
out of action in real life and narrative,

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and it was he was a great
coach, you know, like he's

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like he was really great with the
crew and kind of keep it gither,

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keeping everybody involved. This isn't in
so much who's the man, but every

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feature afterwards. There's a strain of
melancholy in all of his movies that I

327
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.799
at least really responded to. But
I can see where most people don't want

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that in their entertainment. Yeah,
and I think Dave Stewart did the score

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for two of films, and he
he's sort of Willy Wonka at one point,

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but also in the serious in in
other ways. Ted's White Amanda was

331
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.039
very good with her music connection,
so there was always kind of an interesting

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00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:32.359
twist with that as well. So
Ever, Greg Dooley and the Afghan Wiggs

333
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:37.519
did all the the songs and Beautiful
Girls. Yeah, I know of them,

334
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:40.079
and I saw the movie a long
time ago. I'm sorry, I'm

335
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:41.960
not as familiar with with that soundtrack
as I was Who's the Man, But

336
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.880
then I was, you know that
that movie and Billy Madison, which he

337
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.799
didn't direct. But for people in
their thirties and forties right now, those

338
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:56.079
are sort of, oh yeah,
important films for them. Absolutely. Speaking

339
00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.480
of important films, important filmmakers,
perhaps the most important filmmaker, I would

340
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.920
argue it mister John Waters. How
did you fall into his sphere? Well,

341
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:10.359
that's actually a he Tales from the
Dark side Story or is it?

342
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:14.359
Yeah, I think it's the one
movie I directed her Tales from the Dark

343
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:21.359
Side was the moth right and Debbie
Harry's was just kind of starting her film

344
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:26.720
career, and leather Finger, who
was the casting director on many of those

345
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.559
early shows, set me up with
a meeting with her, and I remember

346
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:34.359
going in to see She was in
the recording studio and I went in to

347
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.880
see her to meet her, and
we sat and we talked, and I

348
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.319
said, Yeah, you're gonna do
most of the acting in this movie on

349
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.839
your back, and she said,
that's what I've done most of my life.

350
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So yeah, so Debbie did.
So Debbie. Through Debbie, I

351
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:59.039
met John basically, and I mean
talk about like getting out of your comfort

352
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.200
zone. John was. You know, he did a lot of things to

353
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:07.319
try to make my sister and uncomfortable
as he could in the beginning to kind

354
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.000
of tell us that it's all.
You know, he was funny before his

355
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.599
before that kind of humor became right
rigur you know he was this year.

356
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.519
He's gotten so many awards. He's
on did a whole show at the Academy

357
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.920
Museum about him and his movies.
He's been in the business sixty years or

358
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:30.319
some ridiculous number, and then he
got a star in the Walk of Shame

359
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:36.799
and the editing people Ace just gave
him the Filmmaker of the Year award.

360
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.640
So stick around long enough, they
will shower you with I know. And

361
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:42.400
here we are talking about Hills from
the dark Side, which I worked on

362
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:49.000
forty years ago. There had it
it cuts across, Yes, he does.

363
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.839
Okay, we should probably talk a
little bit about it. You want

364
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:57.079
to talk about you did want to
talk about the Wiz And guess you mentioned

365
00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:04.200
Network by City Lament, So that's
part of I had a good relationship with

366
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:10.799
him. And the Network was a
really unique room to be in with Paddy

367
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.599
Chowski and Sydney and Alan him who
edited all about jazz and early melt Brooks

368
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:18.599
movies and so it was a very
that was the follow up to working with

369
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.240
Ewayne may I, Mikey and Nikki. So I was really like I was

370
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.599
in this rule of these rooms with
people who were brewing it. You know,

371
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:32.880
it's an embarrassment of riches there.
And so the Whiz, you know,

372
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:37.519
it was Michael Jackson and against Sydney
and d d Allen, who you

373
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.680
know edited Dog Day afternoon and Bonnie
and Clyde and you know, Surperco and

374
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:47.440
Rags and it was a very nice
period of time. A lot of hard

375
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:52.799
work but right for hours. But
anyway, so yeah, and The Whiz

376
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.240
was released and you were working in
the music department for that one, right.

377
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.920
I actually started as a picture apprentice
and I worked all the way.

378
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.880
I think I was on the film
for us a year and so I ended

379
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:10.160
up in the music department of working
with Quincy Jones as the music editor.

380
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:15.279
So it was really it was another
education in its own rate. That's amazing.

381
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:21.160
And these are the days where you
would you know, the music wasn't

382
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:26.079
done in somebody's studio with computers.
It was a ninety eight piece orchestras,

383
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.160
getting everybody in the house and you
know, in the studio getting them caught

384
00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:37.839
two or the good part of the
anyway, No, that's amazing than you

385
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.640
for that. But let's talk talesm
Dark said, okay, please tell me,

386
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:44.839
all right, let you get an
assignment. How does it work?

387
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.440
Somebody calls you, they say,
hey, here's a script. It arrives

388
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.960
by messenger. You're getting a bagel. What is your day like for you

389
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:59.920
know, my first show on Tales
from the Dark Side was inside the closet.

390
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:04.039
And remember I had worked on a
lot of features beforehand and fellow vision,

391
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.920
and so I really knew my way
around the block. And Tom Sabini

392
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:12.759
had never directed a movie before,
and or or a TV show for that

393
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:17.279
matter. And I remember getting the
script and he was going to build.

394
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.599
I was told that he was going
to build the creature and that it was

395
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.359
written by Michael McDowell, who wrote
Beetlegeese, and yeah, so it has

396
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:32.960
a skilly thing, but it felt
short, and I just had an instinct

397
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.920
that we were going to run short, and so I told Tom on the

398
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:40.279
phone. I don't think I met
him in person. I think he called

399
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:44.480
it because, again, to save
money, the editor would start unday wand

400
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:48.440
up shooting, so he never really
got to speak to the director that much.

401
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.680
Oh wow. I remember telling Tom
that he should get some extra shots,

402
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.839
some b roll and he said,
I'm absolutely not going to do that.

403
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:06.039
And he said, it is what
it is, and I'm very,

404
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.279
you know, very psyched to do
it, and you're gonna put it together

405
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:11.039
exactly where it is. I said, but I think it's gonna be short.

406
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.160
And he said I'm not gonna shoot
it. So I think I ended

407
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:21.039
up going to a producer and saying, you know, why don't you go,

408
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.240
like after they finished shooting Heaven,
you know, assistant cameraman, just

409
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:32.039
shoot the house with lights on,
lights off, one light on, two

410
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:37.759
lights off, you know whatever shots
as you can't found that out about it,

411
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.400
said if you use any of those
shots, I'm going to kill your

412
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:51.319
firstborn. And and this is Tom
Savini, who's not the least weird person

413
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:56.839
you ever met. It would be
extravagant at least. And so again I

414
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.880
had enough confidence to believe that you
know that we're going to need the shot,

415
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:07.160
and sure enough, the first cut
ended up liking around thirty nine minutes

416
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.559
or something like that. It needed
to be forty two or something. I

417
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:15.160
don't remember the exact amounts, but
slowly he would say, well, why

418
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:21.720
do you put one of those shots? Oh hey, so firstborn business exactly.

419
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:27.680
And then I think by the end
we used it four or five times,

420
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:30.839
and it had the great effect because
it added to like what's going on

421
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.480
in this place? And then I
took I mean, he's a master of

422
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:37.319
what he does, but he didn't
have the tricks in and ed you know

423
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:44.000
that somebody would experience WITHOU have,
And so I couldn't figure out what kind

424
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.200
of score to put on it as
a top scorer, and I ended up

425
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:53.400
taking two classical music tracks and laying
them up next to each other to kind

426
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:59.200
of get a weird sound out of
it, and they'd like they almost matched

427
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:01.119
up perfectly, like they would hit
at the right places, and then like

428
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:07.079
with a little bit of moving around, the vibe of the score just kept

429
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:12.200
changing, which went along with what
was happening in the film. And it's

430
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:17.119
so typical right that it's one of
the most popular shows of all the shows.

431
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:22.200
But I think what it showed me
is that if you have like the

432
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:27.079
right combination of things, you just
need to like figure out how to put

433
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.519
it together in such a way that
it's presentable, but the story itself will

434
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:35.920
cover. And that's kind of I
guess why that show works a little.

435
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.599
But yeah, you know, when
I spoke to Robert Draper, and I'm

436
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.880
going to keep saying this in every
interview I do. You never want to

437
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:47.759
say that there's a seminal episode a
perfect exemplar of a TV series, particularly

438
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.680
when it comes to anthology series.
But I'm saying it now. Inside the

439
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:55.319
Closet is that episode of Damns from
the Dark Side, everybody, It works

440
00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:00.039
spectacularly well, I think. And
also this young woman with Fritz Weaver,

441
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:07.039
you know, it's the is a
perfect innkeeper, right, the perfect head

442
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.360
of a of a place that rents
out rooms. And then all those crazy

443
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.519
animal heads on the wall, and
I mean it's just it's just so creepy

444
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:20.679
all the way around. And Paul
brought in this creature that they never could

445
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:25.039
have afforded by to put in the
show, and because it was his episode,

446
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:29.320
he was able to do that,
so I think that also added to

447
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:34.880
the production value quite a bit.
I mean, Lizzie is the she's the

448
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.400
image you seem. I think if
you were to google Tail from the Dark

449
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.039
Side right now, you you would
get a picture of a colla. And

450
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:44.159
it's funny because the b roll stuff
that you're talking about that you had them

451
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.760
run out and do some of the
best parts of the episodes. Not to

452
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.360
not to stroke your ego there,
but like it is a slow burn episode,

453
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:55.880
we do need to see that house
and how creepy it is. Yeah,

454
00:34:55.880 --> 00:35:00.559
it's a very it's it's funny,
just funny. I get it's I've

455
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:06.039
directed some of I'd sell Sense and
I directed some episodes there, and you

456
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:10.840
just learn that you need something to
back as a backup. You just need

457
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:15.440
You never know when you're gonna need
it. You don't know what shotted is

458
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:19.639
specifically that you're going to need a
bigger production. You'd be able to go

459
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.440
back and shoot a bunch of stuff
after the fact, but on the show,

460
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:29.320
like maybe on the next episode they
could grab something that you needed.

461
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.960
But that house was so specific in
everything. So it was very lucky.

462
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:36.880
I don't feel you don't have to
stroke it, but it's uh, it

463
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.199
was like one of those lucky coincidences. Now, was that typical for an

464
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:44.840
episode? Would you get a script
and just because you said you've had feature

465
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:51.519
experience and most of scripts were like
you wrote down in the cards. Yes.

466
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.880
Yeah. That was directed by take
Gershni, who was a very experienced

467
00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:01.079
written medicals, written produce screenplays.
He was married to Mary Waring out for

468
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:07.679
a while. But you know the
thing is you didn't have many days.

469
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:09.519
That's the other thing. Had four
or five days to edit these things.

470
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:16.199
And so yeah, I remember he
also had a little bit of a pension

471
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:21.559
to drinking alcohol, and the night
we had to lock in the cards,

472
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:27.480
we had a disagreement. I can't
remember if it was the ending or it

473
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:30.199
was a specific shot, but we
decided that we were going to drink and

474
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:37.920
whoever was still standing, but again
we get their way because we have to

475
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.079
turn the thing in and the next
morning so it was like we just kept

476
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:45.320
drinking. He passed out. I
put the shot in that I wanted and

477
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:51.360
we turned it nice. So but
it wasn't always like that. I'm thinking

478
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:54.719
of, like, well, you
know, in some ways I had a

479
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:59.079
you know, the other there having
effect. At least I had in effect

480
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:05.360
that I'm always seemed I had gosh. So see how I could tell the

481
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:12.039
story as sickly as possible. I'll
go long. So in college I was

482
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:19.199
very into an English road actually Rhodesian
foreign player named Michael Gibbs, and he

483
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.679
was only like most of the kind
of stuff I was listening to were black

484
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:28.480
musicians, by Michael was white but
from Mardiesia and Yeah. I played that

485
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:32.079
album until it was until the grooves
broke, and many many years later,

486
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:38.559
I was looking to buy a car
and I went to Brooklyn and I asked

487
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.880
the car was what I wanted to
see? How auld go on a test

488
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.840
drive together. And we go on
this test drive and I come halfway through

489
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:52.599
the drive and I said, you're
Michael Gibbs, aren't you. He said,

490
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.960
yeah, I am, And I
said, I've been listening to you,

491
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:00.039
you know, since I was a
kid. And so up this friendship

492
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:07.840
and I got them a job doing
the score for Halloween Candy. Oh,

493
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.920
and so that was the beginning of
a relationship, a work relationship we had.

494
00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.519
I did this SPERMNTLS movie called Heat
that he did the score for,

495
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:20.800
and a couple other things, I
think a couple of the dark Side of

496
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:24.320
the Monster episodes. But so it
was always kind of trying to throw the

497
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:30.559
work your way, getting favors from
people, and work your way into certain

498
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:35.760
situations. I remember how the creepiest
thing in the Halloween Candy was to make

499
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.840
a scary nursery rhyme kind of vibe
to it, which is I thought was

500
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:45.039
really effective for that show and the
Moth. Now, as an editor,

501
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:52.079
the pacing in the style of the
cutting is dependent on the story always,

502
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.719
right, I mean, that's what
it is. And then on top of

503
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:58.920
that you have the director who has
their own vision of what it is.

504
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.119
So in a case of like in
the Cards, he has a more definite

505
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:05.320
vision than say like Tom Savini,
no offense, mister Sevini, you know,

506
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:07.559
I love you, but it was
his first time, so he's not

507
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:12.079
going to know as much or he
thinks maybe he's got the picture in his

508
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:17.519
head. I'm in the Cards head
directed and rooted. So I'm wondering how

509
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:23.079
much of your style gets in there
per episode? Do you think virtually none?

510
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.800
Right, Like you don't need you
mentioned you have like a four day

511
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:30.639
thing, four day time period,
so I assume you're just cutting the cut.

512
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:35.320
You cut the way. The director
is not in there the whole time

513
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.360
on those kinds of shows, so
you might see him for a day or

514
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:44.199
two, sometimes just a gay I
think Sabini because there was an early episode,

515
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:47.679
he may have been there longer and
then you know, but by the

516
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:51.719
way, in the end we got
along graded and he's a follow them on

517
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:55.320
Facebook. He's always doing something wild
and crazy and having a good time doing

518
00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:01.639
what he does. So style that's
an interesting question because I don't think.

519
00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:06.840
I don't think I have a I
I think I have a lot of tricks

520
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.320
of my sleeve. I mean,
I know how to get in and out

521
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:14.679
of a situation, you know,
out of the corner. But I think

522
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.280
you know, the the idea is
to kind of see I would say this

523
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.280
is across the board, is to
try to see the movie or the scene

524
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:28.239
in your head before you actually edit
it, so that you kind of and

525
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:30.719
on a TV show like dark Side, it's a little harder, but out

526
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:35.320
a feature you kind of work the
first couple of weeks to figure out what

527
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.679
the rhythm of the show is,
and then you hope you get it right

528
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:44.199
and you try to kind of follow
that all the way through, you know,

529
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.559
and then when the director finally comes
and you know, they either say,

530
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:50.920
well I wanted to go a little
faster, I wanted it. Yeah,

531
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.800
we'll call our way through certain sections. I think dark Side we kind

532
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:00.280
of knew, you know. I
think the structure that's that was pretty similar

533
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:07.519
from episode to episodes. So I
wouldn't say I would tell you you're looking

534
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:12.719
for the best performance. You're looking
for, you know, interesting mind readings.

535
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.519
You know, you're you're playing around
with music to see what you could

536
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:21.840
help, you know with, But
I don't think you're imposing a style.

537
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:27.199
Right. No, No, like
you mentioned, you mentioned the vanishing on

538
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:34.480
Seventh Street at the end, it
wasn't scary enough. And we made a

539
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:39.119
list of five possible scary moments,
and we went back and and tried to,

540
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:44.559
you know, shoot those scary moments, insert them in the film.

541
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:50.280
So I think with Darkseide, you
know, there was creepy and there were

542
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:54.679
scaries. It's like right inside the
closet, it's kind of a scary show.

543
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:58.679
With some of the other ones aren't
quite as scary as that. No,

544
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.800
the moth is create. The moth
is creepy. And the woman who

545
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:08.239
I can't remember now, but the
woman who played the mother was really you

546
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:14.039
know, she was wholesome but so
creepy in her own ways. No,

547
00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:16.679
she's she's fantastic because she built.
It's Jane Manning, by the way,

548
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:20.760
it's the name of the the mom
and that one she pulls it up when

549
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:25.079
she becomes Debbie Harry in the end. I believed it. So the funny

550
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:30.559
I'll tell you a funny story about
about the Math is that for two weeks

551
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:36.679
before they didn't have a solution of
how we were going to do the law

552
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.000
coming out of her about okay.
For two weeks, I was going to

553
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:45.159
my sister's house at night, who
lived in the suburbs of Jersey, with

554
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:49.280
a jar and tried to collects,
like turn all the lights on and try

555
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.639
to click, and it was like
it was truly going nowhere. And then

556
00:42:52.719 --> 00:43:00.000
they found a place in California that
sold butterflies, and and like I think

557
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:04.239
the day before the shoot, this
box of butterflies show up. They're like

558
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:09.920
they come and in like a little
cellophane bags, like like you would put

559
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:14.840
a negative in, you know,
And they were dormant until you took them

560
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:19.119
out of the bag and then they
were flupped their waist. But much of

561
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.320
my you know, I wasn't happy
about it. But there wasn't much of

562
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:30.800
a solution as they they crazy glued
filling it to the to the butterfly so

563
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:37.559
that they could control a kind of
like like a tight you know, the

564
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.239
good old days. And so while
it was called the moth, it was

565
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:44.960
really a butterfly that flew out of
her bath. And I think we may

566
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.840
have done it in reverse. Also, I'm not mistaken that we tried a

567
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:52.400
couple of different ways to kind of
have it come out, but you know.

568
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:57.679
I still after this day, I
waked up hearing W's whys, going,

569
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:04.800
well, okay, you know what, since we're jumping forward like the

570
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:07.480
moth. Now you'd edited a bunch
of episodes, did you ask to direct

571
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:12.760
an episode where you offered the chance? Yeah, I think I think that

572
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.400
was sort of rigur you know,
like once you to go back to your

573
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:21.800
other question, I think once you
knew the system, it was to their

574
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:27.519
advantage to have you do it.
And I'm pretty sure that's how that happened.

575
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:30.800
I can't remember see where was it
in the I think it was one

576
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:38.480
of the last shows of well season
four. I probably went away and came

577
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:43.440
back and I said maybe I to
be honest, I don't really remember,

578
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:46.559
but I may have. No,
it's so because of Halloween. Candy was

579
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:50.920
season two. So unless I've down
the way to do something else than they

580
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.360
called, yeah, I didn't.
I don't think you were present for season

581
00:44:54.440 --> 00:45:01.440
three necessarily. Uh okay, so
you get to work with Debbie Harry and

582
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:06.920
Jane Manning in this episode. Can
I just say congratulations on the episode because

583
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:12.039
Roberts I've said it to Robert Draper
as well. We've watched a lot of

584
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:16.079
anthology series on this show and tales. Some of Dark Side consistently, in

585
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:19.840
my mind, looks the best.
Every one of them looks like a little

586
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:24.800
a short film and not an episode
of television. And I'm consistently blown away

587
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:31.679
by the fact that these are sets
somewhere in Queens, I understand. And

588
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:37.679
your episode, which looks like a
country home, including the exterior, good

589
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:43.360
god, fantastic work. Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you. I wanted

590
00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:47.239
the curtain because it was a small
space. I wanted a curtain to separate

591
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:52.440
where the mother was and where the
beds were. And I couldn't figure that

592
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.239
I wanted it. I wanted us
to be able to see shadows and reflection.

593
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:01.320
That's someone's reflections with shadows. And
I was driving home or maybe it

594
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:06.280
was my again, my sister,
and there was this hill on off the

595
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:13.039
New Jersey Turnpike that burlap kind of
like these burlap walls sort of lighting the

596
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.559
thing, and it was sort of
like, oh, that's it, burlo

597
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:19.239
And so I think that again,
I haven't seen the mocklay. I think

598
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:23.960
there's a really cool shot of Jane
like behind behind the burlop and you kind

599
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.280
of see her shout and oh yeah, and that was the other thing.

600
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:30.280
Rob and I worked all this stuff
together. In fact, we also worked

601
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:34.920
on a future together, and so
yeah, we knew each other pretty well

602
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.039
and we could kind of like,
you know, try and he's he's a

603
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:40.719
great experimenter. Even to today when
I see work that he's doing, he's

604
00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:47.199
always very experimental and what he does. Yeah, that's I think that's true,

605
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:52.159
and I think that was one of
the hallmarks of the show. Is

606
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:54.880
And if you go through the list
of dps, there are some pretty good

607
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:59.760
ones in there. Yeah, Ernie
Dickerson is a big one. On the

608
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:04.639
New Artist, Larrid Banks, a
couple other really good ones. So your

609
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:08.840
editor on on that episode was Christina
Bowden. Right, the Bowden went on

610
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:15.960
to do Carlito's Way, Yes,
I got. She worked on several De

611
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:21.239
Palma movies. Yeah, she she
has you know, look at her IMDb

612
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:25.840
pay She has some interesting credits as
well. What you know, what's so

613
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:30.159
funny to me is I think I've
heard every story to come out of Hollywood,

614
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.360
but there was such a vibrant scene
going on in New York and it

615
00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:39.159
never really gets examined, particularly the
technical side of things, like you know,

616
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:43.559
I'm pretty sure Paul Hirsch was there, like you know, film a

617
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:45.719
schoon maker was there. Yeah,
my god. It was just like a

618
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:52.159
cavalcade of talent, and and it's
unexamined or not examined enough. Well,

619
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:55.639
you know, I'll tell you what
this again. This came up with the

620
00:47:55.719 --> 00:48:00.039
study al and event the other night, is that Danie brought in, you

621
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:06.079
know, starting with Bonnie and Clyde, she brought in some major Hollywood players,

622
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.960
George roy Hill, Arthur Penn,
Warren Beatty, you know, and

623
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:15.000
many more, and Sydney in the
bed and it became she became sort of

624
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:22.400
the she probably single handedly you know, started not so much with Paul Hirst,

625
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:28.599
but Steve Roger, Jerry Greenberg,
Craig Mca. They were all assistants

626
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:30.800
or apprentices with d at one point
or the other. So you know,

627
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:36.440
she she developed the community here and
that was still a pretty small world.

628
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:42.119
But you got movies like The French
Connection and you know, Doug Banfter and

629
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:46.239
what other making Appellam one two three, Paul Hirsh had done all those early

630
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:52.199
Pelloma two three, Ghosts, ghost
Park and that the Palmer was doing.

631
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:54.559
I mean, Paul Hurst was during
the Palm movie. So you know that

632
00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:58.719
Kerry, I don't know if he
did Kerry, but he did the one

633
00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:04.880
with Michael Kine. Oh but not
body double, Dressed to kill, Dressed

634
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:07.199
to Kill. You also did Fantoms
of Paradise. Yes, he did that.

635
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:15.119
Perhaps the greatest swim of all time, certainly for your audience. It

636
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:22.039
might just teasing. Yeah, So
I don't know the answer to that.

637
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:28.639
You know, we are what we
always say is that and it happened to

638
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.079
me. I mean I got pulled
out to California to work on a lot

639
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:35.599
of movies. But they wanted they
wanted people with an edge, and then

640
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:39.119
they would do everything they could to
take the edge off like that. That

641
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.840
was kind of how it worked.
So for the edge, if to retain

642
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.639
that edge, you just needed to
stay in New York. I think that's

643
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:51.960
there's some truth to that. And
that's also changed. I mean with the

644
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:54.559
streamers and all that. It's it's
a very different industry than that was.

645
00:49:55.880 --> 00:50:02.320
And you know, because again it
was a small group and it was a

646
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:06.920
small group of directors, and when
those directors start to die off, like

647
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:10.920
you know, doctor Rowe and Talevsky
or the right Robert Benton. You know,

648
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.920
those were those guys were serious players. So, but it came out

649
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:22.760
of like a cafe society. They
they you know, they had a literary

650
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:27.679
you know, medals in their hands
as well. So yeah, New York

651
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.400
New York folk not only had the
intellectual but the gritty as well. How

652
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:36.360
dare you I know how longer people
lived in Las Vegas. I did the

653
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:39.440
movie in Las Vegas. Also,
oh, I've been here for twenty three

654
00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:44.159
years. Well, yeah, I
did this movie at this when when the

655
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:47.920
Sands Hotel still existed. It was
called Heat with Burt Renevels. Oh,

656
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:52.400
yes, and that was a little
fun. Actually living in Vegas was quite

657
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:57.360
a trip. Do you go?
Do you go to Scent or you know,

658
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.119
as near to cent as possible,
like as much as possible, not

659
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:05.280
as much now because of the way
you know you can, Oh you can

660
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:08.360
do it from home transmitted to you. Not only can you do it from

661
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:14.000
home, but you can shoot this
morning and have the daiways tonight in your

662
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:16.480
in your apartment in New York City, like from anywhere in the world.

663
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:21.760
So, mister Wolf, do you
miss the bins? Do you miss thea

664
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:27.159
in the I do miss the travel? I did try. I traveled a

665
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:30.760
lot for film. You mentioned Mabyline. I traveled for that. I went

666
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:36.920
to the Philippines on the movie I'm
sure you've heard of because you're you've got

667
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:45.519
that kind of taste called McBain that
theater, Susan. I saw that in

668
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:52.960
the theater. Wow, you're the
one. It was me. Yeah.

669
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:57.239
So I lived in the Philippines for
almost two months, almost a little more

670
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.159
than two months. That was a
crazy place to be. Yeah, so

671
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:04.079
if you sort of missed out side
of it, good worked in London the

672
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:08.599
bun now, you know, even
getting to set for a day is unusual.

673
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:17.199
Do you find editors to be extraordinarily
patient people? Yeah, and then

674
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:24.480
your average grip well, definitely.
But yeah, patience is a funny word,

675
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:30.719
you know, like you're always sort
of you're always sort of hedging because

676
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.559
if you have an idea for something, and this is what I think you

677
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:37.800
mean by patient, If you have
an idea for something and the director isn't

678
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:43.559
receptive to it, you have plenty
of time to wait them out or out,

679
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:47.320
you know, because you can wait
a couple of weeks and then try

680
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:52.360
it again, and then try it
again. But I would say We're patient,

681
00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:55.480
but also persistent, you know,
like if we think that, you

682
00:52:55.559 --> 00:53:00.960
know, if we think something should
be, well, keep pushing to try

683
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:06.280
or figure out other ways of getting
And a big point of the editing is

684
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:08.239
when one person has one point of
view and another person has another point of

685
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:14.960
view, is to find not necessarily
in the middle, but the other point

686
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:20.760
of view that works for both of
you. And oftentimes that's a better you

687
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.119
know, it's a better choice.
So yeah, yeah, so we're patient,

688
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:29.840
don't show you know, try not
to show too much emotion and that

689
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.400
kind of thing. But again,
I know, very passionate. I thought,

690
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:36.360
very passionate. O there is and
I know editor that you can barely

691
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:39.280
get the talk. So I've heard
that getting a job as an editor,

692
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:45.559
being interviewed for to get an editor's
gig, it's more about finding finding out

693
00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:49.360
whether or not you can stand to
be with each other in the room.

694
00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:53.679
Do you find that to be true? I would say there is a school

695
00:53:53.719 --> 00:53:57.280
of thought about that. I always
say, you know, I don't.

696
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.599
I never intended to work with direct
pears who were like in the room all

697
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:04.679
the time, who were like pushing
me on that, you know, like

698
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:07.239
just wanted me to be kind of
a pair of hands in some way,

699
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:10.920
you know, and that would often
come out in the air view you kind

700
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:16.480
of and as I got more experienced, there was an interview for me to

701
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:21.480
them as much as it was right. You know, I don't want to

702
00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:24.159
be in the room with the crazy
person either, So but you're right,

703
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:28.239
I mean that is a big part
of Yeah, you're going to spend a

704
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:31.400
lot of time together, there's no
doubt about that. But again, today

705
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:38.480
people are either shooting their movie or
developing their next movie. So you're lucky

706
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.960
to get the other, to get
the director into the room. Wow,

707
00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:46.880
because they're you know, they're you
know, they're moving along. So is

708
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:51.599
that is that a trend these days? More and more more of the trend?

709
00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:53.880
I mean, there were always going
to be the Michael Mann's and and

710
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:59.199
Oliver Stone types that you know,
like are there all the time. But

711
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:04.559
but I don't think, yeah,
you know, the abbot has created a

712
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:08.639
lot of freedom all the way around. Yeah, they speaking of that frame,

713
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:13.280
does it does that feel a bit
more freeing like that that you're trusted

714
00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:17.159
to like put it together and they
you know, because the way they can

715
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:24.320
blame me, it's a very different
you know, like when Netflix got into

716
00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:30.000
the business, they were very trusting
other people who work with them. Now

717
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:35.360
they're more like a studio where they're
very involved and you know, sometimes they

718
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:38.199
notes so good, sometimes they're not
so good. What the abbot is allowed

719
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:43.079
is to bring in a lot of
voices. You know. I think Netflix

720
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:47.519
has several editors on staff that they
work on their own films, but they

721
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:51.639
can you know, they pay them
so that they can send them a cut

722
00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:57.800
at notes for themselves with the cut. So you know, it's it doesn't

723
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.199
have that. The business doesn't have
that kind of a personal connection the way

724
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:04.559
it used to. It was fun, like you turn out of Tales from

725
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.280
the Dark Side, it was like, yeah, in a very short amount

726
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:10.840
of time, you were making something
that was kind of a fun treat.

727
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:15.639
And since, like your show,
for instance, I have gotten jobs because

728
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:21.679
of working on Tales from the dark
Side. You know. Somebody said,

729
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:23.840
oh, when I was seventeen,
I saw the ball or whatever there.

730
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:29.760
Yeah, so there's speaking of Tails
from the dark Side and in style now.

731
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:31.440
When I spoke to Robert Draper,
he said there was a definite house

732
00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:35.119
style that was sort of dictated to
him from the beginning. That it was

733
00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:38.039
going to be all hard light like
noir. Was there a house style for

734
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:44.440
the editors? Were you given a
thing or you kind of talked about that

735
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:47.079
before, But I think there was
a style to the scripts that they chose

736
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:52.400
and that kind of dictated the editing
style as well. Yeah, if you

737
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:57.039
know this, there's not a lot
of like montage work. It's a pretty

738
00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:01.400
straight forward, you know, And
there wasn't a lot of room for dolly

739
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:07.320
shots. It's not it wasn't.
It was really a master tree shot,

740
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:13.039
you know, close up kind of
show right from sort of the sublime which

741
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:16.199
I consider The Moth and Inside the
Closet to be sublime episodes of the series.

742
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:22.320
To answer me, Michael McDowell is
a hero of mine and he wrote

743
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.440
a lot of the episodes, including
the one you directed. He wrote the

744
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:30.639
weeks two of the ones. Oh
yeah, Inside the Closet. Yeah.

745
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:35.199
I just think he's a genius.
Apparently lived no fewer than like a few

746
00:57:35.239 --> 00:57:37.159
blocks from me growing up. He
lived in Medford, Massachusetts, next to

747
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:43.559
Road, Massachusetts. Yeah, but
answer me, how do you make how

748
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:46.960
do you make tension from the phone? It was it works for a little

749
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:52.480
while. Well, I would say
one of the things that she's a very

750
00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:59.960
good actress, you know, start
and yeah, telephones, I used telethon.

751
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:02.639
It's a scary Yeah, there's nothing
like a quiet scene where a telephion

752
00:58:02.679 --> 00:58:06.159
goes up. So yeah, yeah, to be honest with you, I

753
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:09.880
don't I remember Vagally, Yeah,
that show, but I don't. It's

754
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:14.079
not like deep into my brain.
Oh yeah, I mean I bring it

755
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:15.679
up as a lark. It's just
it's it's the trifle of an episode.

756
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:20.559
I just thought it was really funny
that if the episode is hamstrung at all,

757
00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:25.039
it's because Michael McDonald chose to have
her effectively just narrate the episode out

758
00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:30.400
loud, which, by the way, something avoided in your episode The Moth

759
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:34.719
because there's some inner monologue stuff,
some voiceover stuff thought was great and so

760
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:39.519
appropriate. It gets tiresome and anthology
shows where characters are constantly spilling the you

761
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:44.159
know. And also it's interesting.
I would say that was another show that

762
00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:46.559
felt like it was, you know, it was going on too long.

763
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:51.960
Yeah, that there wasn't enough to
kind of keep it going for the entire

764
00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:55.000
length of the show. But you
just send the director of that note,

765
00:58:55.119 --> 00:59:00.599
this is too long. But something
needs to happen. I don't think I

766
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:04.000
I don't think I went there.
I mean, see it now, I

767
00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:07.800
said the rectory bism though I was
written by Michael I'm not even I didn't

768
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:13.360
even write down of the directors,
but as well, yeah he did,

769
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:15.320
which yeah, I mean it looks
great, Like I said it, the

770
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:20.440
episode. Even even your worst episodes
look better than some of the best Night

771
00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:27.880
Gallery. It's insanity. There's one
called The False Prophet, directed by a

772
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:31.800
DP. I think that always helps
a little bit too in that regard for

773
00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:36.480
those kinds of shows. What else, well, I mean, if you

774
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:38.800
want to talk about Tear Collector for
a second, I mentioned but the Paradise

775
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:42.480
being the greatest movie on earth.
You balked at that, Sarah, But

776
00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:46.280
nevertheless, here's miss Jessica Harper,
the luminous Jessica. And also, you

777
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:51.159
know, I still see who is
the star of the Victor Garber. Yeah,

778
00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:52.760
Victor Garber. I still see him
around here as a shock of white

779
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:57.480
hair still. I mean it's shot
the hair, but it's pure white.

780
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:01.280
He's on Broadway a lot. That
was one of my favorite episodes of all

781
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:06.679
with your Click, It's fantastic,
such a great concept, the Dark Side

782
01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:12.599
was never, never shy of just
doing two hand or character pieces and making

783
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:15.760
them interesting. By the way,
speaking of pace, that's another thing we're

784
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:21.239
constantly marveling at on this show.
On Dark Side, overall, you've got

785
01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:25.320
like basically twenty two minutes. It
always flies along, it never feels dragging.

786
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:30.800
Quality of the writing is the barometer
of whether or not an episode is

787
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.480
going to work here, and a
good actor can kind of pull you through

788
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:37.320
some of that. And his victor
is a very he's a very strong actor.

789
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:42.000
I'm trying to remember who was there. Who is his co star in

790
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:47.320
that one, Jessica Harper, Sir, you mentioned that here. Yeah,

791
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:51.280
I just thought it was a great
it was a great, great concept.

792
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:54.599
I've been meeting, like to go
up to him because I see him at

793
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:58.119
the events and where I saw it. I have to go up to him

794
01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:00.840
sometime and talk about that episod so
with them, because again, he was

795
01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:07.000
a you know, he was probably
in his late twenties or early thirties show

796
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:10.800
as well, so episode. Yeah, Yeah, that's another thing we marvel

797
01:01:10.840 --> 01:01:15.280
at. The New York episodes in
particular, because you had just a wealth

798
01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:20.000
to draw from from New York stage
actors who And I made this point the

799
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:22.760
other night that on Night Gallery,
when you would get you know, one

800
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:27.880
of somebody who had had some fame
beforehand, they it always felt like they

801
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:30.199
felt they were slumming, whereas the
New York actors are always this there to

802
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:35.159
do the job and like, all
right, it's true. And I did

803
01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:39.679
a show it was called The Gift, and I think it was dark sided

804
01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:45.599
monsters. But was it monsters?
Think it's monsters. Anyway, it was

805
01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:53.800
you know who was at the time
looked super old, right, but it

806
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:59.400
was Yeah, it was hilarious whenever
you work with somebody who has a kind

807
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:02.239
of like the god tadle behind them. But when I did Beautiful Girls,

808
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:08.119
Richard Bright, you know what that
is. He played the cop who shoots

809
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:12.880
that's one of the assassinations on the
steps of the courthouse. Oh yeah,

810
01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:19.719
yeah, and he played Timothy Hutton's
father, and so you know they we

811
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:24.800
would we would do like scenes from
The Godfather because by that time with that

812
01:02:24.880 --> 01:02:28.800
was around the Settle lot. In
fact, I directed a lot of the

813
01:02:28.880 --> 01:02:35.320
be the b camera and on Beautiful
Girls, but we would do we were

814
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:39.639
do oscar day with the night with
every day, every day, one of

815
01:02:39.719 --> 01:02:45.320
the crew would act the scene with
Tibut. Yeah, and we're gonna call

816
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:47.840
it Oskar Day. And then you
know, sons like a while to talk

817
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:52.480
with her Chip right about the Godfather. So that was always fun. Oscar

818
01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:59.639
Day is hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, so Abra Goodo was in that one.

819
01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:02.400
It was called The Gift. I
guess that was monsters. I mean,

820
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:07.239
yeah, that was monsters. And
then I did one called Stress and

821
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:12.920
Stressed Environment, and I went to
meet I don't know if you know who

822
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:16.920
this historically, probably know who she
is, A Lindley. Oh yeah,

823
01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:20.840
in the old Oh yeah, no, no, I know Carol Linley.

824
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:24.199
Absolutely. I always kind of had
the huts from her when I was king,

825
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:29.000
and so they they said, you
had a you know, we're gonna

826
01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:31.280
we can hire her. I said, great, you know that would be

827
01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:36.280
wonderful. And then I went to
meet her and that turned out she had

828
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:39.760
like a little bit of a stroke. Oh but it kind of at first

829
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:45.440
it was sort of like maybe the
threat, but they kind of had the

830
01:03:45.559 --> 01:03:49.360
weirdness to a bit. I think
kind of booked at the show. If

831
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:52.239
you remember, I took that show
over if somebody got sick. I think

832
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:57.960
one of the big one of the
showrunners was going to direct it. So

833
01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:01.880
it's the first episode of season read. It's called Stressed Environment, and it

834
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:06.360
was about these rots taking over the
loved But you know, also Richard Rubinstein.

835
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:13.639
Whenever there was like a little sense
of you know, nudity in any

836
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:17.840
of those shows, it was because
Richard really liked to see a little bit

837
01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:23.360
of niity in the daily So even
even if you knew you're never gonna use

838
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:27.719
thet they always wanted there to be
something kind of sexy that they would go

839
01:04:27.880 --> 01:04:30.039
to get them into the show.
Weird Advised. Could you please talk about

840
01:04:30.079 --> 01:04:34.239
mister Richard Rubinstein, your interactions with
him. He is one of my favorite

841
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:38.679
producers of all time. I know
that's not people didn't usually say that sort

842
01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:42.679
of thing, but like his relationship
with Romero through the nineteen seventies was really

843
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.320
felt like it like the old patron
kind of relationship, you know, like

844
01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:49.079
they here's story about He wasn't much
of a film guy. That's the thing

845
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:54.840
is that I think his relationship with
Romero was such that, you know,

846
01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:59.280
George could do what he wanted and
Richard would buy the money of the paperwork,

847
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:02.239
you know, and that was kind
of his relationship all the way through.

848
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:06.880
I think that he never he never
got the sense he knew very much

849
01:05:06.920 --> 01:05:12.000
of the film, but he kind
of knew how to put these deals together.

850
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:15.960
And look, you know, on
Dark Side after that Monsters, and

851
01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:20.119
then he made Dark Side the movie, and and excuse me, he did

852
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:25.559
all those Ramero movies, so he
must have had something going on, but

853
01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:30.039
he never he wasn't sort of like
it wasn't like walking in a room with

854
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:34.400
Robert Donness or something like that,
Jerry Bruckheimer or Don Simpson or whatever.

855
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.519
He kind of WASH's I would call
him a I mean this sort of affectionately,

856
01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:45.639
like a B producer as opposed to
a but And a lot of John

857
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:50.599
Weather's producers were kind of in that
realm too. They weren't particularly in mainstream,

858
01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:56.559
but they were adequate end up being
able to get a deal together independent

859
01:05:56.639 --> 01:06:00.519
producers being independent producers like you know, it's more fascinating that it's not their

860
01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:04.079
first love. They just they like
putting deals together. They like they like

861
01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:09.920
being part of something artistic person out
of the garment industry too, which was

862
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:15.400
a very kind of appeal. You
know, a dealer oriented profession, you

863
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:20.559
know, selling shit with they like
the Yiddish word for the schmatas selling schmats.

864
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:25.920
So yeah, so look, you
know, like because actually I did

865
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:31.079
a movie with Gordon Willis called Windows
with Tally Schier, and that was produced

866
01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:34.559
by a guy who came out of
the government industry as well. So that

867
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:40.079
was a that was a typical money
source in New York for a long time.

868
01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:44.880
It's the garment industry is everything to
carpet these days, mister Wolf.

869
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:50.079
Yes, I can I equivocally say
that. Yes, well, it's not

870
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:57.280
as you know, the the kind
of camaraderie that exists in a group in

871
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:03.840
a community. It's a lot harder
to make that happen because especially since COVID,

872
01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:09.880
I mean COVID sent everybody home now, producers are liking people to be

873
01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:14.119
home because they don't have to rent
edit anywhere else. They can ship an

874
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:18.239
abbit to somebody's house and you know, save a lot of money because the

875
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:26.320
real estate it was hot than the
value at the rental. So right at

876
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:29.039
the plus side is you get to
edit in your pajamas if you want to.

877
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:33.559
That's a challenge just to get out
of your pajamas, yes, because

878
01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:36.880
if you start in your pajamas at
five o'clock, A is still going to

879
01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:41.119
be here. Yeah, where do
you go from there? Honestly, there's

880
01:07:41.199 --> 01:07:45.960
nowhere to go. I'm looking at
what other episodes you might find interesting.

881
01:07:46.119 --> 01:07:49.920
Let's see, Oh, you know
another one that was kind of odd,

882
01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:54.119
but I enjoyed it because it was
Eddie Bracken and it was also a shot

883
01:07:54.159 --> 01:08:01.719
by Rob called The Aids of the
Stubborns. Spectacular episode with with tiny Christian

884
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:06.039
Slater. Yeah, and like all
you know, I was looking at pictures

885
01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:12.239
today all these as he's decomposing,
the makeup artists really had a lot of

886
01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:15.280
work to do to kind of,
you know, make that work. And

887
01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:20.000
what's that movie where they're carrying dead
guy rattle? Oh, weekended Bernie's Weekend

888
01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:26.880
of Bernie's always kind of reminded it's
so much better because he's he's he's animate

889
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:30.039
and you get to watch him eat. It's the most vile thing on television.

890
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:34.199
Yeah, so you know, I'm
glad, you know, it's it's

891
01:08:34.279 --> 01:08:38.920
interesting being as I was going through
YouTube, you know, there are a

892
01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:42.560
couple other people out there that do
tail some of the dark side ships,

893
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:47.479
So I mean type amateurs yeah,
amateurs. But the point is is that

894
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:51.640
it has this light that keeps keeps
on going. So it's kind of but

895
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:57.079
never know, you don't know if
you're going to make something that's like when

896
01:08:57.119 --> 01:08:59.039
you go, when you start the
film, it's either going to be a

897
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:02.960
ball a cult classic or or something
i'd call it, you know, like

898
01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:08.239
you just don't go. And you
know, even The Whiz the other day,

899
01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:12.079
which wasn't a terribly successful movie,
I was moderating this panel and this

900
01:09:12.199 --> 01:09:15.319
woman comes up to me and said, The Wiz is my favorite. You

901
01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:21.000
know, every movie is someone's favorite
movie. I think. So, you

902
01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:25.800
know, I did a movie called
out Cold. It was it was a

903
01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:32.880
castle, Black Got a ski Slope. It starred Zaca Sack for Lights Gallafanakis.

904
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:38.840
I've seen it. You should check
it out pretty Thank you so much

905
01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:42.960
for taking some time and speaking with
her. It was enjoyable. And now

906
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.399
I'm going to have to go back
and look at some of these episodes together.

907
01:09:49.720 --> 01:09:54.800
Inside the Closet. This is season
one, episode seven. It aired

908
01:09:54.840 --> 01:09:59.680
originally on November eighteenth, nineteen eighty
four. This is written by Michael McDowell

909
01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:04.119
Michael McDowell and directed by Tom Savini. Stars Fritz Weaver and a ROBERTA.

910
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:08.079
Weiss. It is the tale of
a grand student who rents a room from

911
01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:13.439
a professor that contains a tiny closet
door that cannot be opened from the outside.

912
01:10:14.119 --> 01:10:17.680
What did you think of this one, Chris? Oh boy, I'm

913
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:23.159
glad I got asked first, because
sometimes the litmus tests. I wonder where

914
01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:28.399
you guys are with something like this. This was maybe you guys liked it

915
01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:32.720
more than me. I enjoyed like
the last five minutes. I mean,

916
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:36.000
it's it was spitting its wheels for
a while, but then once you kind

917
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:40.319
of figure out, like once it
gives up the ghost and shows you what's

918
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:45.560
going on, it is wild.
I mean just the puppet is something like

919
01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:51.560
I've never seen before. But I
feel like the like eighteen minutes that precede

920
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:56.720
it are so just kind of It
reminded me a lot Father Malone of all

921
01:10:56.800 --> 01:11:00.199
through the house from Tales from the
Crypt. It was just like a thing

922
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:03.399
and something stalking this person, and
this person's walking around a house and that's

923
01:11:03.399 --> 01:11:06.079
supposed to be enough, and then
you get the reveal at the end that

924
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:11.279
oh, there is a monster and
the monster's horrifying, and like it has

925
01:11:11.319 --> 01:11:14.319
that same idea of just like is
this real, isn't it? And in

926
01:11:14.960 --> 01:11:19.159
this once we get the reveal,
I think it kind of saves the episode

927
01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:23.399
as it were. But man,
that puppet at the end, it's like

928
01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:27.840
a harlequin baby. Like, don't
go looking that up if you don't want

929
01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:31.199
to. But it's the closest I've
ever seen on screen to what is a

930
01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:36.119
harlequin baby at least like white skin
like red o. It's awful. It's

931
01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:41.560
awful and intriguing, and I want
to know what you guys think. Yeah,

932
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:45.359
you know, last episode I was
talking about how tight that Danny Eye

933
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:47.439
yellow one was. What was that
the bat or whatever? The odds?

934
01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:53.840
Yeah? This one? Yeah,
I was just like, is something gonna

935
01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:58.399
freaking happen? And it doesn't help
that like when you put this on either

936
01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.760
on Plex or if you look at
the IMDb, you can get the little

937
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:03.920
monster picture. So I'm just like, Okay, cool, a monster is

938
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:11.680
going to be in this when and
then having Fritz Weaver there and I always

939
01:12:12.039 --> 01:12:16.880
script with Fritz Weaver. Was he
in Creep Show? Right? Oh zy?

940
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:19.520
All right? I just want to
make sure because there are times where

941
01:12:19.720 --> 01:12:24.840
there's another actor who I always think
that that's Fritz Weaver. So I just

942
01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:27.720
kept thinking of the crate and I
was just like, you know, oh

943
01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:30.920
yeah, to tell it to call
you Billy, And I'm just like,

944
01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:35.199
okay, you know something has to
happen. When is that going to happen?

945
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:39.279
And I was really like, I
kept thinking a coral line with the

946
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:43.239
little closet door and all this kind
of stuff, and again thinking of things

947
01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:45.880
that I'd rather be watching, and
I'm just like, when's it gonna have

948
01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:49.000
what's going to happen? When's it
going to happen? And then when it

949
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:54.640
finally does, I mean that laughed
out loud at the creature. I like

950
01:12:54.760 --> 01:12:58.680
the design. I like the you
know, the kind of electronics that it

951
01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:00.560
has to make it move and all
those kind of things. Though of course

952
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:05.479
it's a cheap have having it like
around his legs so you can just see

953
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:10.359
the puppeteers behind it kind of thing. But yeah, I wanted to like

954
01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:14.039
this more than I did. I
think her name is Lizzie. That's the

955
01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:19.039
daughter, right, Yeah, gentlemen, I fucking love this episode. I've

956
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:24.960
would since Night four. I figured
if there's an episode I've seen, I've

957
01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:29.439
seen this one. Won a billion
times. There are images in this When

958
01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:32.680
I spoke to if if you've listened
to our our first episode about Tailsmith Dark

959
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:34.960
Sid, you heard our interview with
Robert Draper, who was the director of

960
01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:41.159
photography on this episode, and I
said to him that there aren't many times

961
01:13:41.239 --> 01:13:44.319
during an anthology series where I could
point to an episode and in my mind

962
01:13:44.439 --> 01:13:47.840
that's the definitive episode of that series. But this episode is the definitive episode

963
01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:54.199
of Talesmith Dark sign for me.
Wow. Yeah, but but but you

964
01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:59.359
have to remember that at the time
there were two gods ruling my existence,

965
01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:02.279
George Romero and to Tom Savigni,
Tom Savini, the Wizard of Gore,

966
01:14:02.439 --> 01:14:06.920
the splatter King for young Child Malone. There was no bigger personality in horror

967
01:14:08.359 --> 01:14:11.239
and I like that. By the
way, child Malone. Now we've got

968
01:14:11.239 --> 01:14:17.319
a new version Child Malone. No, not childish Gambino, but child Malone.

969
01:14:17.399 --> 01:14:19.760
Yeah. You know Tom Savigni.
Look, if you don't know,

970
01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:25.760
Tom Savigni was a combat photographer in
Vietnam, which came in handy in his

971
01:14:25.880 --> 01:14:30.319
future career as a special effects makeup
I started his film career with Martin with

972
01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:32.680
George Ramiro. He did all of
Martin's. He did all of George Ramiro's

973
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:35.479
films up until two Evil Eyed,
did all the effects on all of them,

974
01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:40.960
in addition to doing Friday the thirteenth
and Friday Thirteenth Part four, the

975
01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:43.760
better of the two. As far
as what Jason looks like, you know,

976
01:14:43.880 --> 01:14:45.079
and on and on and on and
on. Tom Savini is a fucking

977
01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:49.119
god. So not only did I
watch you this episode obsessively, I owned

978
01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:53.720
the videotape that had this episode on
it. There was a videotape that came

979
01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:58.720
out by put out by Fangoria magazine
called Scream Grates, and the first first

980
01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:02.199
volume was about Tom Savini and they
had many many clips of this episode in

981
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:06.119
it, and they had him like
with the creature. I love the creature.

982
01:15:06.239 --> 01:15:11.560
The shot that when she's finally come
out of the closet, by the

983
01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:15.439
way, her furtive little running moves
through the thing with the camera work there,

984
01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:19.119
it's great, it's great. It
works so well because it's exactly the

985
01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:25.000
pause is enough, and then the
sprinting is just great. Anyway, when

986
01:15:25.399 --> 01:15:29.800
she's under her bed and we pan
from her lying awake and trying to sleep

987
01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:33.279
and down to those eyes opening,
Holy God, that is definitely the stuff

988
01:15:33.319 --> 01:15:36.439
of my nightmares, those eyes in
the darkness and thinking about that under my

989
01:15:36.520 --> 01:15:40.880
bed. Anyway, I'm not going
to convince you guys of anything. I

990
01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:43.840
mean, look, but I also
want to say that this is not just

991
01:15:44.039 --> 01:15:47.800
strictly nostalgia because rewatching this now,
there's so many people here who sort of

992
01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:54.399
graduated under like Romero university who became
directors on this show, and I gotta

993
01:15:54.439 --> 01:15:58.960
say, virtually none of them have
copied Romero's style. I mean, they

994
01:15:58.960 --> 01:16:01.439
may have learned how to make the
movies from him, but they there isn't

995
01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:04.760
really a whiff of Romero's style because
his style is all in editing. What

996
01:16:04.920 --> 01:16:11.199
I noticed about Savini's style here is
he's actually more leaning towards Shallo and sort

997
01:16:11.239 --> 01:16:14.399
of the Italian directors, just even
in the color scheme, like in that

998
01:16:14.520 --> 01:16:18.560
little hallway, the almost suspiria like
stained glass that's on either side of the

999
01:16:18.640 --> 01:16:23.039
door, stuff like that. I
really I thought it was a it's a

1000
01:16:23.119 --> 01:16:26.640
pretty good I mean, this is
his directorial debut as well, and I

1001
01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:30.880
think it's pretty solid and surefooted and
kind of said he didn't get more directing

1002
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.880
gigs. I always liked that Night
O Living Dead remake. I think the

1003
01:16:32.920 --> 01:16:38.119
episode's well directed. I just think
that I honestly think it would have benefited

1004
01:16:38.159 --> 01:16:42.319
from showing the creature earlier, you
know, seeing more of the creature.

1005
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:45.039
And I mean, I understand and
appreciate, as I'm sure we all do,

1006
01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:48.359
like why they didn't for a whole
host of reasons, namely one of

1007
01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:54.399
them the fact that it's easier to
not show it and until and hold that

1008
01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:58.880
back until you absolutely need to.
But it waits a little long, and

1009
01:16:59.039 --> 01:17:03.199
then we don't really get to see
much of them trying to convince us of

1010
01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:06.760
something that's not happening, that you
know, Fritz Weaver is in trouble.

1011
01:17:08.279 --> 01:17:11.159
We you know, they don't really
you know, he just it just ends

1012
01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:15.800
essentially like she dies and then it
ends, And I wish there had just

1013
01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:17.600
been I wish they had just cut
a little bit of her running around the

1014
01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:23.600
house out and fleshed out the ending
a little bit more, because to your

1015
01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:25.920
point, Father Malone, like I
would have liked to have seen more of

1016
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:30.680
Fritz Weaver in that puppet like really
like because that was the part of this

1017
01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:33.319
that was like the most interesting,
because he's clearly been doing this for a

1018
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:38.760
while, and this is something that
he's been up to for quite some time,

1019
01:17:39.399 --> 01:17:43.279
and like, I kind of want
to know what the fuck's been going

1020
01:17:43.359 --> 01:17:46.159
on. It's intriguing, and then
the creature itself is so interesting to look

1021
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:48.720
at. You're like, what am
I looking at here? I could see

1022
01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:53.439
a Tails from the dark Side two
point oh series remaking this episode more to

1023
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:56.399
what you guys are saying, which
would be ten minutes of setup and then

1024
01:17:56.479 --> 01:18:00.640
twenty minutes of her being chased around
the house by not only this googlish creature,

1025
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:02.880
but the professor who's renting her the
room is you know, attempting to

1026
01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:06.880
capture her as well. That'd be
really fucking cool. But this is just

1027
01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:11.000
a slow burn. What's under your
bed? What is that little door in

1028
01:18:11.079 --> 01:18:14.840
the room that you can't find a
key for? Sort of situation? And

1029
01:18:15.119 --> 01:18:16.720
I don't know, I love it
for that, you know, it's a

1030
01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:23.000
really good Halloween night kind of thing
to watch. Yes, it has that

1031
01:18:23.239 --> 01:18:29.640
set up in spades of like the
thing that feels rather again like approachable for

1032
01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:31.840
most people. Like you're in a
room and there's a door in that room

1033
01:18:31.880 --> 01:18:36.560
that you can't open. That's you
know, that's pretty relatable, especially if

1034
01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:40.640
you visited family or relatives, like
and I'm with you, Like if it

1035
01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:44.800
were remade now, it would be
a much more effects driven thing. Oh

1036
01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.079
yeah, yeah, but I love
Lizzie and I think they've shot her well.

1037
01:18:47.439 --> 01:18:51.199
One thing I did talk with the
Robert Draper about was the fact that

1038
01:18:53.119 --> 01:18:59.520
Lizzie goes from very horrifying looking when
she's attacking the young grad student to when

1039
01:18:59.760 --> 01:19:05.000
she cooing with Fritz Weaver, she's
really adorable. I just thought that's such

1040
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:09.479
a trick that they pulled, that
they were able to do that, which

1041
01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:14.039
I've always admired, going from horrible
to kind of cute. Yeah. Yeah,

1042
01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:16.119
the cooing definitely helps quite a bit. And then when you realize,

1043
01:19:16.399 --> 01:19:19.359
you know, because at first you're
like, oh, she's gonna attack him

1044
01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:24.680
on then okay, no, it's
his daughter, It's okay. I thought

1045
01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:28.119
that was it was nice. I
found it to be heartwarming in a very

1046
01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:31.720
weird way, and like the puppet
is up until it isn't like strange and

1047
01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:35.239
off putting, and then it's not
like and again, like I think credit

1048
01:19:35.399 --> 01:19:40.159
goes to those eyes on the design. It's really about the eyes which are

1049
01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:45.880
like again like strange to look at, but oddly like sad and like get

1050
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:48.840
a lot of empathy through those the
creature's eyes for sure. And I think

1051
01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:51.920
it being like stark white, which
would imply like it's been living in that

1052
01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:57.960
closet the whole time, which is
like pretty gnarly sort thing. Yeah,

1053
01:19:58.560 --> 01:20:00.760
I mean, she just needs to
eat it every once in a while.

1054
01:20:00.840 --> 01:20:05.560
You can't really blame her. Brad
students be damned. I mean he maybe

1055
01:20:05.640 --> 01:20:10.560
should not be renting to grad students
and killing them, Like there's got to

1056
01:20:10.600 --> 01:20:14.279
be some other situation if he's if
he needs to do this every once in

1057
01:20:14.319 --> 01:20:17.039
a while. But you know,
yeah, like why not just feed why

1058
01:20:17.119 --> 01:20:19.760
not just feed her rum meat?
Like I don't under I don't get it.

1059
01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:23.800
Maybe a lot of trouble. I
don't know. I don't know Lizzie's

1060
01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:27.640
life, But I want to just
go watch Cobweb essentially the same thing.

1061
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:33.399
No, don't even sully this thing
with him similar idea though similar setup.

1062
01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:38.680
Sure, Absolutely this is this is
better. This is better, like yeah,

1063
01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:41.960
because it's only twenty minutes as well, it's not an hour and a

1064
01:20:42.039 --> 01:20:45.760
half movie. That's the other thing, Like that is probably the benefit here

1065
01:20:45.880 --> 01:20:48.239
is that it is twenty two minutes, Like if it were longer, I

1066
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:53.119
would not want to watch a forty
five minute version of this episode, not

1067
01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:56.199
if it was situated the way.
Not if it was situated the way.

1068
01:20:56.279 --> 01:21:00.439
This is right, if the last
twenty minutes were this fucking hunting, chasing,

1069
01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:02.520
scary statement thing that it was gonna
be cool, I don't know.

1070
01:21:03.079 --> 01:21:08.039
I mean, we saw that night
Gallery with that gorilla exactly. I'll just

1071
01:21:08.079 --> 01:21:12.479
take any opportunity to bring that up
again. I loved that episode. Tell

1072
01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:15.079
them to call you Billy, yeah, you know, like and Fritz Weavers

1073
01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:18.279
here, like, I don't know, I love this one. I enjoyed

1074
01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:23.239
the puppet tree, that's for sure, like that from I enjoyed that like

1075
01:21:23.520 --> 01:21:26.720
aspect of it, for sure.
It's a puppey I've never seen before.

1076
01:21:27.079 --> 01:21:30.720
Yeah, it's a great design.
And you know, obviously look that if

1077
01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:34.199
anything works, it's because the puppet
is as it is at the end,

1078
01:21:34.319 --> 01:21:38.560
and that's because Savini like gave it
us all. Like, you know,

1079
01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:42.319
they didn't pay him for his work
for Little Lizzie here right. Also,

1080
01:21:42.560 --> 01:21:46.520
I was I this was the one
episode where I actually believed they went on

1081
01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:50.960
location and shot in a house and
they did not. They shot this in

1082
01:21:51.039 --> 01:21:57.800
a fucking warehouse in Queens. It
seems it doesn't seem set bound at all,

1083
01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:00.239
not a whiff of it. Like
on some they cheat it and on

1084
01:22:00.359 --> 01:22:04.039
occasion it'll look a little off and
you go ah, but then they correct.

1085
01:22:04.399 --> 01:22:08.680
But like here, I believe that
was a fucking house. It's certainly

1086
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.680
that the foyer right for you?
Yeah, yeah, but nope, No,

1087
01:22:12.760 --> 01:22:15.199
it looked really good. That stairway
felt very real. I'm sure it

1088
01:22:15.319 --> 01:22:19.800
was only you know, seven feet
tall, but yeah, exactly, movie

1089
01:22:19.960 --> 01:22:24.279
magic. Gotta love it all right. On the next episode of Midnight Viewing

1090
01:22:24.319 --> 01:22:27.520
will be taking a look at two
episodes from season one. Those are The

1091
01:22:27.640 --> 01:22:30.399
word Processor of the Gods and A
Case of the Stubborns. One of them

1092
01:22:30.479 --> 01:22:36.520
is the first appearance of a adaptation
of Stephen King on television. Midnight Viewing

1093
01:22:36.600 --> 01:22:41.760
the Horror Anthology Podcast is a proud
member of Weirdingway Media Group. Our theme

1094
01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:45.119
song was composed by HP Until next
time? What are you working on?

1095
01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:48.520
Where can people find it? Chris
Dash you Weirdingwaymedia dot com. You just

1096
01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:51.000
mentioned it. I'll say it again. Yeah, that's where you can find

1097
01:22:51.039 --> 01:22:55.359
things that I work on. Things
that so many other people work on as

1098
01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.840
well, more people than just myself. Yeah, Weirdingwaymedia dot com. What

1099
01:22:59.000 --> 01:23:01.600
about you, Mike White. I'm
glad you said Mike White, because there

1100
01:23:01.760 --> 01:23:05.119
might have been another Mic here.
As for me, Yeah, same place,

1101
01:23:05.359 --> 01:23:11.439
Weirdowaymedia dot com where pretty much everything
that we work on is there,

1102
01:23:11.640 --> 01:23:15.800
stuff that I work on by myself, with you guys, one of you,

1103
01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:20.439
both of you. The only thing
that's missing is our amazing Rank and

1104
01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:26.479
On Bond podcast, which is available
only to our Patreon subscribers at the ten

1105
01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:30.239
dollars level on up. So get
on that Projection booth or culture Cast Patreon

1106
01:23:30.359 --> 01:23:34.720
and enjoy that. But otherwise everything's
at Weirdowaymedia dot com. How about you,

1107
01:23:34.760 --> 01:23:39.479
fatherm Alone? Check me out at
Weirdingwaymedia dot com. I've got I've

1108
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:43.960
got a bunch of shows on there, including Night Mister Walters, the Taxi

1109
01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:47.239
Podcast or HP and I discussed Taxi, one of the greatest sitcoms of all

1110
01:23:47.399 --> 01:23:50.520
time. You can also hear Dark
Destinations. It's a radio drama right and

1111
01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:54.399
produce And if you want to give
me a couple of dollars, go to

1112
01:23:54.479 --> 01:24:06.039
Patreon, fatherm Alone. Until next
time, try to enjoy the daylight midnight

1113
01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:12.439
viewing. The Horror Anthology Podcast is
a proud member of Weirdingway Media. Our

1114
01:24:12.479 --> 01:24:16.640
theme song was composed by HP with
an assist from Donald Rubinstein and Erica Lindsay.

1115
01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:20.760
If you want to hear these episodes
early and commercial free, become a

1116
01:24:20.840 --> 01:24:27.199
patron over at patreon dot com slash
fatherom alone. Not only are the episodes

1117
01:24:27.279 --> 01:24:30.680
up early, but we have extended
interviews and bonus podcasts where we spotlight the

1118
01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:35.439
best episodes of horror Anthologies from every
series. But if you just like the

1119
01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:38.920
show and Lona help, please share
it with your friends and give us a

1120
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:43.279
rating on your favorite podcatcher. Together, we'll keep journeying through the places that

1121
01:24:43.399 --> 01:24:45.359
are just as real, but not
as brightly lit.