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Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dodge jeep Ram. It's bilified the Bill Moran
Podcast. Well, hello and welcome. Thanks for getting your pot on.
Thanks for telling a friend. That's how we spread the word about the pirate
ship. It's like we're only coming in on one channel. I don't know
what's going on here audio technical wise, but that's all right. I cannot
help you with best. That's all right for the audio portion. It'll be
fine for the video portion. I don't know. I've been trying to do
different things with the cameras and move things around and get sorry. I have
a face for Radio Soto I, so that's fine with me. Greg Connors
was kind enough to come in today, and I thought it'd be interesting just
to not so much talk about because you've been on the podcast a lot.
We know a lot about you. People are familiar with you. You do
an awful lot in the community, both here and in Buffalo and all that,
but more to get kind of I'll call it your Keys to Success,
but we'll kind of go meander through that with a variety of different questions,
including one I would I don't know if you'll even be comfortable answering, but
what do you think people say behind your back? And we'll wait on that
one because I think that you know a lot well. I think that I
think a lot of people probably say nice things, but I don't know if
that it's over time you have been. I think the only thing you can
be in life if you really want to see where somebody stands, is their
consistency. And I gotta say, Greg, you're consistent in your philanthropy,
in everything. There's there's no change. And I go, that's when you
know somebody's the real deal in my opinion. Yeah, and for and with
me, with my kids and and even my business partners and family. It
really it's you know, how have you act in the past, what's your
track record? You know, how have you treated others? How do you
act? And to answer the question from from the perspective, would others say
about me? I think it's a matter of what setia sit in. You
know, what's your perspective of me and what is our relationship like? You
know, I think there are I think there are colleagues of mine that sit
across the table from me that think I am a you know, they've accused
me of being a lying, cheating, stealing, manipulative ben the rules lawyer.
But I'm not. I'm I'm I'm a guy who just does my job.
I don't do their job for him. They don't ask the right question.
That's their fault. It's not my fault. Right. I do with
the law. I do it the rules of ethics in New Yorks they require
me to do. I don't do one thing more for them. And so
but you know, for me, integrity and character is critical. So you
know, I've been accused of things, but none of them have an example
of the accusations. You know, I've been accused of hiding medical reports for
really oh yeah, and I was like, give you one case it's happened.
Well I've heard, Well there's no evidence. Yeah, because I haven't.
I mean, I'm not going to jeopardize my career. This sounds like
to me sore losers, if that can be the case like people who have
lost and said, well, I know they did that, but yeah,
there there's no evidence, and it feels like like that do you let these
things? Do they bother you? Because I've I've said, and it's very
easy to say, it very hard to practice when anybody else's opinion is of
you is none of your business. And if you can kind of live that
way, you can be more authentically yourself and not be bogged down or brought
down by others. It's not easy to do, so I would it's a
two part answer for me. For the first twenty years of my career.
It bothered me, sure, because it's so important to me because of my
family in the way I was brought up to have. You know, my
dad just talked about character. Don't talk about yourself. Let others talk about
you. If it's really important, somebody's gonna talk about it, he says.
But the one thing you have is your character and your integrity. So
if that's the thing you have to you have to focus on and cherish the
most. So when people would call that in the question, I would get
very defensive, and I would then lower myself to their level in many respects
and I became overly concerned with it, and then so certain decisions I would
make, I think early in my career were really trying to be preventative to
it as it being as opposed to being proactive. I've gotten to the point
now where I look at it and I'm like, I've got twenty five plush
years of a track record. So you can saying that you want about me,
but just look back at my career and then that I'll tell you whether
what you're saying is accurate or not accurate. Yeah, but that's taking me
a while to get there. There's been a lot of therapy sessions that helped
me along the way. And you know it's yeah, I would say,
also, sometimes with age comes wisdom, right, and you start to see
what's really important, and uh, you know you I know, and I
was I was actually going to ask you what is sacred to you? And
I feel like I know the answer. Yeah, it's the character and integrity.
Yeah, it's it's you know, it's treating others like you'd want your
family to be treated. Well, I was gonna say, so I might
have been a little off, but family to you, I think is very
very important and very sacred, and I think that when you start to as
you get older, you start to prioritize things those are that's what's important.
And one of my what is what am I doing for the community, and
what am I doing here? And and that all that stuff is just noise.
But it takes a while to get to play above the noise, so
to speak. Yeah, it takes for me. It took a while to
have the comfort and confidence that what I was doing was the right thing.
And there were a lot of people that said a lot of things about how
Tom and I did things to start, and you know, we didn't have
a track record. We were I was thirty one years old, and you
know, I was viewed as the young punk who was you know, just
I was a bull in a China store. And I didn't have that track
record. And now as I look back at what we have had guiding principles
and decision making, that has been the same throughout and a lot of it
stems from my family of giving back to the community. And that's one of
the reasons why Tom and I actually started the office was we had a philosophical
difference about how we wanted to be involved in the community. As well as
what some of our values were, which was, you know, taking care
of our families and having the decisions we make and furtherance of that and being
you know, giving back that that that that was the That was the one
thing that always struck me as I wanted to do more. My my family
had always in Hornell had always been involved in non for profits. My dad
was involved in the y MCA. My dad was involved with the Girl Scouts
and my sister was twenty five years old. Wow, because it was just
something that was important that they didn't have a lot for young girls, and
so he felt was important and so he did those things. And uh,
and when he and I talked when I was in my after law school in
my twenties and thirties, and my mom was also involved in a lot of
non for profit work down there, and uh, it was always about what
are you doing? You know? Yeah, because I was gonna say,
you know, knowing that integrity, values, family, giving back all important
things too. Who had the biggest impact on all that? Would it?
Would it be your dad? Oh? Yeah, wholeheartedly? Yeah, that
that was you know, my It's funny if people that my dad passed away
in two thousand and one. My dad was a six foot two, two
hundred and ten pound, gray haired guy Irishman and all the passion that I
have. My dad was one of the quietest, most cerebral, laid back
guys you'd ever meet. Now, my mom, she's a five foot four,
passionate, sparky Italian woman who you know that? And so I kind
of got more of that side of the personality. I always tried to that's
natural, that's my instinct. My mom is my instinct. My dad is
my aspirational self, gotcha and uh, And so as I when I have
times a reflector, I set goals and I think about future and planning.
A lot of is probably more governed on my dad's life and my dad's career.
My dad was My dad was a great, uh planner, a strategic
planner. That was I remember being. And I was in my in my
college days and had to interview somebody for one of my classes in healthcare class.
My dad was in healthcare. So I interviewed the CEO of the hospital
who was there at the time, and she told me that, you know,
one of the greatest attributes of your father is that he is a great
strategy planner for future future growth. And I was like remember talking to him,
I'm like, how do you do that? What is that skill?
And he's like, well, you have to think about you know, different
things of like you where you are today, you planned two to five years
prior, because you can't get somewhere without knowing where you want to go and
then having a path to get there. And so as I then wasn't at
Alfred University and thought, okay, I want to be a lawyer. What
how do I get there? And that's a three year process and then you
know, and then once I got my job and I thought of where do
I want to go from here? You know, I talked to my dad
about it and he said, okay, these are the steps you have to
take. These are the reasons why you should take these steps. And my
dad. One of the things that I took from my father and I try
to live that to this day is don't make decisions based on money because you
can always have more, and you can you will always have can always have
less. But who you are as a person and the reasons why you do
it, that's that define who you are as a person and h and so
those are the things that I try to always go back to is I try
not to make money, make decisions based purely on money. Unfortunately, in
the last five years with COVID, I probably have made more decisions based on
money than I probably should have. Really, yeah, and I would think
that most people would. But to hear say than I should have, Well,
you say this all the time, and I agree with you. What
happens to you is based upon the decisions and where we are in our business
right now in terms of you know, we've had a we've had a departure
of attorneys from our office that went to very went to the other side of
the table do the exact opposite of what we do. And part of that
departure were decisions that I made. I mean, I can only blame myself
for that. Could I have done things differently? I probably could have.
Were they based on money? Some of those decisions probably were. Some of
them weren't. But you know, there are times where we get into it
and I think oftentimes you think more about profit and loss, and when you
make decisions based purely on profit and loss, it's only going to end up
in a loss in the long run. Well, yeah, I always think,
like when you look at some venture capitalists right or who are investing in
companies and startups and things, and if the startup is doing it just for
the money and not so much for what the business or study is about,
they usually lose. And I think eighty five percent of venture capitalists don't get
their money back. I think that's a study I writen Forbes, and I
thought that was very interesting in that, yeah, you're doing something. Everybody
needs money. It's the currency by which we get things and buy things and
do that. But when you start to lose the sight of the goal,
and I've had that a couple of times examples of that in my own life.
I remember when I was at CMF and we were doing really well and
the general manager said to me, well, I can't sell you guys.
We're number one with men from eighteen to fifty four years old. Well I
can't sell men. And I remember that like drove me nuts, and I'm
like, all right, Well, so now I changed my focus and I
had meetings with the salespeople and we started designing content around sales, and the
ratings went down, and I go, when you start focusing on just the
money and not together, it will come, you know. I mean it's
a kind of a corny phrase to say, but if you build it,
they will come. And if you do it well, they will come.
If you do it with the pure and general intentions. Yes, yes,
it's an even better way to say it. And it's when when I think
back to, you know, the foundation of what Tom and Chris and I
you know, had ideas of doing it was actually just providing the most responsive
service, uh and then and then and being the most preparative anybody in our
space. That was it. It was pretty simple, and it worked,
and it resonated uh and uh and then we just kind of began to add
and we and it. Nobody told us to do it. And that's the
thing that we've learned over time, and we've had to grow. I mean,
I'm a first generation business yea, And so you know, learning to
adapt and understanding the changes in society and the changes in the workplace probably has
been the most challenging because we do we had done things initially not based on
money, just because the guys we had were great people and we just we
loved them and it was like a family to us. Well, now you
fast forward ten fifteen years and we're doing the same thing we did for those
guys, but different people are there and they don't take it. They expect
it because it's already been given and they think that they're owed it as opposed
to have been there and earned it. And then you do it because of
out of appreciation, and it's become more of an expectation because of the history
of what we've done for others, and that has been that's been challenging.
Well, because the bar is set, there's the standards there. I'm going
to come in and this is what I'll get where the others grew with you.
Yeah, he came in probably with the same mindset of hey, we're
going to do this. And the key to in my opinion, the key
to a successful business. I don't care what it is. It's the little
things. Yeah, it's truly little things, and it's and it's doing it
for the right reasons. And you know, they talk about generational family,
you know, generational businesses. One of the hardest reasons why generational businesses fail,
particularly the third generation of business, is because they don't have the same
reasons or rationale or drive or pushed to do it. The right way because
to them it's their right way is different than my right way. I mean
I grew up as an Irish kid in Hornell whose grandfather worked the railroad and
had three fingers because he lost him as a brakeman. That's what I grew
up with. My kids grow up with me with their life experiences. I
didn't get on an airplane build until I was twenty two years old. Yeah,
it's find it interesting because I offer didn't think when you look at great
athletes, whose kids come next, not always does it? You know,
some of them get there, but sometimes they never reach the same level.
And I don't know if it's a hunger or whatever, but they didn't have
to fight as hard to get there. It would be my thinking, Like
if I look at Michael Jordan, he could provide the best nutrition, is
the best. It's just expected. It's just my life. I mean,
I think his one of his kids said, they you said you didn't fly
to you or twenty. I think that kid didn't fly public. It was
all private right until he was twenty. So it's a way different lifestyle where
Jordan, we know, came from you know, North Carolina, working class
family, good family, mom and dad both they're supporting but working. And
there's something about that that I do think plays a big part in success.
I really do. It's drive, it's discipline, and it's drive. Yeah.
Where does the drive come from for you? That hunger to failure,
failure, fear of failure. Yeah, yeah, I I've you know,
I've never been the tallest, I've never been the most athletic. I've never
been the smartest. And so for me, it was all about preparation.
It was always about in order for me to succeed on the football field,
I need to be stronger than everybody else. So I worked, I lifted
more, I ran more, and and academically I was never the smartest.
You know. My older brother had like a genius IQ. He can remember
anything. He didn't apply himself, he didn't study. He just remember things
and he didn't care well. I had to study because if I didn't,
I had some core based intelligence. But everything I had to do I had
to earn. And so when I was in law school, I went from
lifting and doing sports, you know, eight to ten hours a day to
just reading and writing eight to twelve hours a day. And it was about
preparation. The one person that I can think of that had success as who
grew up around success professionally, who then had that drive and even more as
Kobe Bryant. Yes, yeah, that's a great point because his dad was
played basketball. Yeah, that was a professional athlete, and then Kobe was
a professional athlete. And when when you look at and I didn't and surpassed
his dad because his dad, I thought, played more internationally, right,
didn't. I don't know that he did he play in the NBA. I
don't think so. I think he might have gotten a sniff really, But
then so when you look at when you look at and I was not a
huge Kobe Bryant fan when when he was playing basketball, because I didn't,
you know, social media wasn't around. He didn't get to see all these
clips about him and all these things he did, and when he was playing,
well, the only thing I remember he was playing was his incident and
right, sure, yeah, because you were you heard of that stuff because
it made headline news. And Kobe was also I think seeing his standoffish,
yeah, seeing his and instead of focused and I think like the Dream Team,
the second Dream Team or Dream Team too or whatever they did, it
was him That changed the whole thinking of the guys because I thought it was
like Lebron and stuff. They were just coming in right right from a night
out in Europe, and then here comes Kobe and they're like, where are
you going? He goes, I'm going to the gym And as they were
coming in, he's going to work out like four or five in the morning.
Yeah, and it and and that sort of trickled down. It was
like, oh shit, I should do that, and it is once in
a while. And there was no like, hey man, you guys are
out party. No, nothing said. Just that example and that drive to
win. And I can tell you of all the people I know they have
met professional success. Whether it's sports, whether it's business, whatever it is,
they all have one thing in common is their work ethic. You know
a good friend of mine, here's a business mentor and investing mentor, mind
Rick Abb. I don't know anybody that works harder than him. I mean
he's he's had a forty plus year business career and he still works twelve fourteen
hours a day. Now. If you want to talk about work life balance,
I can't say that people that are success will have a good work life.
I have several questions that I was going to ask you, so I
just jotted down notes because I wanted it to be a free form conversation,
and I did write down is there such a thing as work life balance,
because I don't know that there is? If you yet, I think you
do a very good job, greg with from what I've seen, I really
do. If you ask my if you ask my former wife, she would
say, that's probably my biggest struggle work life, and mine too. Always
mine it, uh, you know for me in terms of prioritizing is you
know, it's always family for me, yes, But when I say that,
it's you know, work is what drives me. Work is where I
and that's one of the things I enjoy because I can see results. I
can, I can see impact, I can, I can give back,
I can. You know, it's it's a rush. It's an adrenaline rush
for me. The competitiveness. Now, when the kids had sports, the
kids had games, the kids had stuff at school, I would always carve
that stuff out, but then I was right back to work. So I
would coach, you know, I would. I would they'd have games at
six at night or practice and I would coach every sport. Anything I could
get involved with the kids, I did it so it would be practiced,
and sometimes I coached Will's basketball team and Luke's basketball team. I'd have practice
from six to nine at night. While we get home at from Will's practice
at nine o'clock at night, he'd go to bed. I'd be right back
at the computer. I'd be working until twelve one o'clock in the morning.
And so the balance of some of the other relationship side of things for me
is I think those suffered. I don't think I probably spent the time that
others in society do on some of those parts of it. You know,
even even like with my mom or my sister and my brothers, I probably
when we're together we spend the time. But it wasn't as always delivered early
in my career as it probably should have been, or that others who don't
necessarily have that goal or drive in terms of their business of their profession to
commit to it. But you have to. The separation for anybody in the
professional goals you have is what are you willing to put in there's a sacrifice.
Anybody that owns a private plane, anybody that that has that high level
of professional success. I can tell you that there's a there is a sacrifice
and a trade off for it. And sometimes it's sometimes it's you know,
the work life balance isn't there, and you overcompensate by doing some of those
things. Uh. And sometimes it's it's a sense of loneliness because you don't
have people that you can trust that are around you, because you haven't invested
in the relationships to trust people. Yeah, I know that. Even for
myself, it was always a drive to win, right, And I knew,
I'll just I guess I can just say it in radio. You knew
there were guys that were just gonna win because they showed up. Right,
brother Weis was always going to be a huge personality, unique talent, really
unique, that's what made him great. Had a different way of speaking,
spoke to the common man pretty well, right, had a cool look,
was different and also smart, intelligent guy. So I knew, like when
there was that shift, I'm like, I gotta I'm not I have to
work, I have to do I can't be as good as I gotta be.
I gotta make this significantly better than And it was that kind of thing.
And I also knew, you know, because of the way the science
behind the ratings and stuff, there would be confusion. So I just poured
all in. But I mean there were times I would work till to go
to bed, get back up at four or five, and go to work.
And I don't know that that was a smart thing or not. I
you know, and I try now, like you know, the word is
grind. You know, it would always be uh, you know, grind,
wrench, repeat, and I go, can we change that word to
I get to you know, because even you know, I'm here last night
and the studios are really late or early this morning, and I go,
but I get to do this and I love it. Yeah, and that's
okay. Well, and that's one of the biggest differences that I learned when
you know, we started the own business is at you know, the one
thing if you're going to invest in something, uh, invest in yourself.
Yeah. And the investment in yourself will always pay off. And even if
you start a business in the business fails, you learn so much from what
you're doing to either redirect or or realize, you know what, maybe me
owning a business isn't right for me, and I should focus on being a
support person or doing a different thing, which then allows you to have balance
in other parts of your life that you don't necessarily have when you're the business
owner. But you know, a very wise man uh said to me when
I was younger, you know, when I was in my twenties. He
says, when you have an opportunity, to always invest in yourself. Yeah.
Well, that's funny, because I would always say to even my son's
I would. Now I'll say to them, you know, you're gonna get
a career at some point, but work on yourself because if you, no
matter what it, make yourself rough, you know, take those edges and
smooth them out a little bit, learn things about your personality, keep yourself
in shape, eat well, work on yourself because all that then translates to
whomever you're working for or whatever you're doing. It just makes you better and
better to be around and a better employee and you can think clear. And
I think that's like the biggest investment you can make. And and for me,
any the advice I would give to anybody that's in that, you know
from Luke's age sixteen seventeen to thirty is find someone who you trust that will
be honest with you, yeah, because everybody thinks that they're funny, everybody
thinks that they're the life of the party, and that they are smart,
and they you know, are a great people person and all these things.
But you know, sometimes you're offensive and you don't appreciate it. We were
just talking about somebody off the air. We know that thinks he's hilarious and
he yes, you know, is offensive at times, and you know,
having a self awareness, but sometimes self awareness as you grow immature. From
eighteen to twenty five and thirty, that's when I became more self aware,
and Jenny helped me learn that. And being around people and learning their personalities
and how they were successful or didn't quite meet the success that they wanted or
thought they were having helped me become more appreciative of myself and the people around
me. And those lessons in my mid twenties were priceless, absolutely priceless.
What do you do when you don't feel like it, when you don't feel
like let's say, working out, or you don't feel like taking on this
whatever it is today, or you don't feel like meeting with this perspective investment?
And what do you do when you when you don't feel like it.
So U two answers. If I have a time, if I have if
the reason I don't want to do it or can't do it is because I
have a time commitment, I have someplace else I have to be or do,
then I go to whatever that commitment is. If it's if it's a
Saturday, or I have nothing on my schedule for the rest of the day
and that comes up, I do it. You do it. I do
it because to me, just doing it get you one step close for whatever
your goal is. And for me, you know, the discipline to do
things and the drive to do it get you there. But I know a
lot of people are really smart and people who are driven. Some of the
difference between those who are ultimately successful and those that are close but not quite
there is actually taking this step to do it. Just one quick story I
was. I was at Alfred University senior year. Was in political science and
business classes with a couple of my buddies. All of them were super smart,
three nines. I was like three four. I thought I was doing
pretty well, and at the end of this senior year they're all like,
hey, what are you doing? Where are you going next? Year.
What you know you got a job. I'm like, I'm going to law
school. And they're like you you we thought you were gonna be a high
school football coach. And I'm like, well, yeah, no, I'm
going to law school. And they're like, how did you get into law
school? And I said I applied yeah, And I was like, well
how about you? Guys were like, yeah, I'm going back to Long
Island. I'm going to Philly. I'm going back to my dad's company.
I'm like, I thought you guys are going to law school. They're like,
yeah, no, I go. Why didn't you go? And they
go, well, we didn't feel our applications and I was like, oh.
That was the first time in my life I was like the difference between
me and them because they were smarter than I were than I was. They
had a much different upbringing, they had much more opportunity than I had in
terms of finances and access to people. The what separated me from them at
that point in time was I did something they didn't do, and I was
like, holy shit, It's all about actually putting your mind to it and
then following through. And from that point forward, I was always like I'm
gonna say I'm gonna do something. I consciously made sure I did it.
One is because people are going to rely upon you, and then if you
don't do it, you then become you develop a pattern, or you develop
a reputation of not following through it, which means you're not trustworthy, you're
not honest, you don't have that character or integrity that people say something that
they do. But also differentiated me and I actually got things accomplished and done
that other people didn't just merely because I took the steps to get it done.
So working out, you know, yeah, I do stuff with the
boys, and I got stuff I need to get done. I could put
it off or tomorrow, but it's like, you know, if I have
time tonight, I'm gonna get it done. So yeah, any instead of
sitting down and binging a Netflix show, Yeah yeah, I get it done.
And I have binged in the past, and I have felt awful about
myself, awful, I go what did I do? I watched for four
hours. This is the same at it that I felt I felt like,
honestly like I can't I don't know if it's dirty or just loser, Like
I'm like, oh my God, So it was depressed. So at this
stage of my career, in my life, I've come to learn that I
should have done more of that at times with the people that I care about.
Yes, because what I've learned about myself is that in relationships, you
know, me being in the same room as my kids I'm okay with.
I don't need to have sitting at the kitchen table and talk about philosophy of
life and you know, what are your goals in life when they're seventeen,
eighteen, and twenty years old. I tried to force that a bit at
times, and I remember I didn't. I didn't like that. So for
me, just being in the same room as my kids was enough. But
as as in different statas of life, people want different things from you,
and sometimes you know, sitting with my mom on Sunday nights after dinner and
just talking around or on dessert is more meaningful for her in many regards that
I took the time to do that, which as a parent I know now
with my kids I love. Yeah, So I didn't do that as much
at that at certain times in my life where I probably should have. It
probably would have meant more to her and and ultimately more fulfilling for me.
And so you know, when I had the time with the boys, now
I try to actually, you know, put the phones away and we do
some traveling. Uh. And that's because it's just us and now they're locked
in with me. So binging in those things, you know, if it's
with somebody and it's and you're the programming itself isn't always necessarily the goal.
It's the it's the experience that you're sharing or the time you're sharing. Right.
So with all that stuff and all that you do, and the kids
and trying to balance everything, how do you get away from it all?
Do you get away from it all? Is it? Is it possible?
Can you kind of turn it off? You know what I mean, like
kind of turn off your head? Right? So h I would say yes,
yes, but my actions in my past say no, yeah. Uh
you know it's it's it's like I've been to Hawaii once, okay, and
I went for the NFL All Star Game. Okay, all right, right
that it was a great trip, but it was based on something that you
know, was had work relatedness to it, yes, and so you know
it's like, oh, here you're doing these great things. Let's go.
You know, went on a trip to Greece and it's like, Okay,
hey, let's go to Greece. Well, we went with one of our
marketing partners, so it was work related. So it's like, you know,
I like to think that I do take time off. I do take
a break, but when I'm gone, I'm thinking about it. Yeah.
You know, when you you took a trip this year to Europe with your
sons the summer, do do you do any work while there? I mean,
and I don't. I don't, not even because here's my thing,
Greg, I'm going to go away this week and that's where we're taping this
today and it will run early next week. And I'm thinking of I just
need at least two hours a day. They don't have to be consecutive hours.
Or I can sit down and go through stuff because I have to do
that every day. And there's something about that that is almost comforting. Yeah,
And I don't know why that is. It's yeah, sanity, I
would say. Early in my career I did the same thing. Yeah,
and I really couldn't get away from the office. I always had a tether
and part of it was I felt responsible for everybody that was there, and
I wanted to make sure the little things were done. And unfortunately I have
a bit of a control personality where sometimes relying upon someone isn't quite me doing
it or did they do it the way that I would expect Ro'd want it
to be done. Our trip to Europe was in thing in that you know,
your six hours ahead, and so we would get up in the morning
at you know, eight o'clock, it's two o'clock back here in Rochester.
By the time we get done with dinner at six, it's noon. And
so for me it was we were having just interacting and having so much fun
and activities together that we wouldn't get back to the room until nine ten o'clock
Europe time, which is four o'clock here, and then I'm calling and sometimes
the office was closed and there was nobody there after five o'clock, so it
was like, oh, jeez, I missed today. And then I'm on
the computer, check in my email, check in the you know, what's
any messages and stuff. So I still did do that, and it it
made me more relaxed knowing that you know, there wasn't a fire or something
didn't blow up that all of a sudden, I didn't I didn't have some
ability to make sure that in my mind everything was okay, and I need
to have some of that comfort I know things are okay for me to be
able to relax. Yeah, do you get like, do you have an
opportunity to actually sleep? Because I know there are times you're work until early
in the morning, and then do you try to I mean, is that
something that let's go back to the words sacred, But is there anything that's
almost like this has to happen? And I know working out as a daily
thing for you, it is, Yeah, So is there do you do
the same thing with sleep or is that more like me where it's like if
I get it, I get it. If I don't know, look like
shit, Well, you know, for me, as I've gotten more experience
and older in life, if I don't get a bare minimum amount of sleep,
Yeah, then my ability to my ability to actually decision make like I
want to be able to in terms of capacity becomes impaired. Yeah, meaning
that I make some of the decisions I make are are not as good when
I'm tired. If I don't get if I don't get six hours of sleep,
I get less than six hours asleep, which unfortunately I do a couple
of times a week with everything I've going on the next day, My decision
making is always good, which is great having partners like you know, Chris
and Tom is because they're like, I come in to talk to me,
like whoa, whoa, you know, yeah, let's let's this is take
a different perspective on this. So but uh, yeah, for me,
sleep is important, but it's it's it's not It's not something that I overly
focus on. Yeah, I mean, I have that kind of same problem,
and I often look forward to opportunities where I know I can kind of
shut it down a little bit and get a little bit more and then try
to gain the perspective because I always think probably seven is a really ideal number,
but I'm more than that five to six range for myself, and I
can at times feel it. I can I find myself getting shorter with people.
But I knew, like years ago, I saw it might have been
sixty minutes or something. They did a whole thing on a drug, a
new tropic and it was called Provigil, and Provigil was like this guy's like,
yeah, he goes, I'm running a business. My kids are a
little I don't want to miss a moment. So this is one of these
things. And it was prescribed for people who had narcolepsy, so it would
help keep you awake. But I've also had these functions for your brain,
like you were sharper and all this stuff, right, So this guy's like
yeah. So I'm like, fuck, man, I gotta get a hold
of this. What is this stuff? And I went to my doctor and
I convinced him to write me a prescription, but it wouldn't be covered by
insurance. And I think at the time it was like fifteen hundred dollars a
month for a month. Yes, So I'm like, well, obviously,
So I went on. I started searching new tropics and stuff and this isn't
an ad and I haven't been and I know that there's a guy who's all
over the internet. I been talking about this for years, but probably around
twenty ten I found Alpha Brain from on it and it's just and it's a
new tropic and I take it on a daily basis and I've been taking it
for years years, And now I know Joe Rogan pushes it a lot,
and that I've never done that I've never even talked about it, but back
when I was doing the breakroom, I started it, and then there was
a time I went laid off and I go, I feel like it makes
me sharper. Now it could be the placebo effect, do you know what
I'm saying, Or it could be completely But I'm looking for anything that's gonna
give me not so much the edge, but the ability to just do more.
Yeah, do more. My mini tropic is called anxiety. Yeah,
well I get that too, and that you know. I don't drink coffee.
I drink water. When I get up in the morning, I drink
water. It gives me energy. I drink a lot of water. I
also drink coffee, but I drink water first. I don't like to drink
my calories. So I got you. And the thing I've come to learn
is is I've been able to sleep a little better once I understood kind of
what my brain was telling me and why I did a lot of things I
did, and a lot of it was just anxiety. It was again the
anxiousness of not succeeding, and that drove me. I always want to win,
but for me, it was not failing. That was because you know,
with my family and you know, cousin Tim, you know, so
of my family. When you win, that's a definition of whoever the persons
perceiving the victory because I've wanted things and they've ripped me a new ass,
like I was the biggest loser you ever met. So for me, defining
what winning is is really personal in nature. I mean, when you play
a football game, you know the person has more points at the end,
but you know, and that was always a lot of what the goal was.
But when you start talking about professionally and you start talking about in your
family and all these other things, it's really a mindset of winning. And
so I was always like, I'm going to define what it is not I
know what it is not to lose, but and I'm gonna win no matter
what. But that's my definition, not yours. And some people look at
money definds winning or certain other things, and really it's a matter of what
is your goal. Your goal definds whether you win or not. So my
anxiousness of just not losing and just being the best at what I do what
is what has driven me for thirty years of my professional career. Oh how
important our goals and when I asked that, I would think clarity of the
goal more important than the goal. Sometimes, you know, we can have
these vague goals, but you almost have to have a defined clarity and sort
of envision it in your mind and then go, yeah, well, I'll
almost start at the end and work back to where you are and work that
way. Yeah, And for me, it's always been trying for me setting
a goal and then understanding what the path was to achieve it. And if
you don't have a clear definition on what that goal is, then you're gonna
meander through and you're never gonna get to where you don't know where you want
to go. I have set goals, like for the office, for example,
Tom and mine. Chris's goal and we started the office was just provide
the service, just having fun, doing a great job, making an impact
in the community we live in, and make enough money where we can provide
for our families. It was never to be in four different cities. It
was never to have you know, you know, fourteen attorneys or twenty attorneys.
It was none of that. It was all that stuff was based upon
demand and then business opportunities. And so we would get to a goal and
then we would be doing something and opportunities would come up and that would then
redefine a new goal. One of the things that gets brought to my attention
quite regularly is when is enough enough? Okay, you know, is there
an answer to that for you? Because I don't know if there would be
for me. I mean I really don't. I think that that's where you
and I may different a little bit. I don't know that there is an
answer to that for you. Where for me, I would go out,
well, enough would be this, and I could kind of put a cap
on it. Although well, if I talk to you, I'd go,
oh, yeah, when when we started and we were working through it,
that was more than enough for me. Sure, you know, I had
a great family, I had a great business, I had great partners,
I had great people I worked with. Life couldn't get any better, right,
it was the It was the best. And then with that success,
other opportunities came along and it was like, hey, wow, this would
be great. We could do we could even do more, we could even
help more people. We could do and within our business model, you know,
it was scalable where we could have a bigger impact in people's lives.
And family's lives as well as the community. So why not do it?
Well, now it's on the goal changes. Yeah, and so for me,
you know, when is enough enough? I answered, I give to
you as I'll give to the person who asked how quite regularly is I don't
know. It hasn't been. I mean for me, because it is enough,
but something else comes along and now you're chasing that. Well. I
always think that on a simple you look at like men who retire and then
they die shortly after, right, And I often think I wonder if that's
because there was always the contrast and wanting more. Right, we always want
more in life and we never want it to end, right, nobody wants
it to end. And people go, wow, if I could just stop
time. You don't want to stop time. You want to keep moving through
time. You want to keep living this life experience. You want the contrast
and the change and the idea to get more. And that's what it always
That's what it always is. That's what life is. That it's you know,
wanting more, wanting more, And I think that that's the key to
living and always growing and changing in a positive way for the positive you know,
and you talk about you use a word that is very important to us
in our business is experience. It's a life experience. And for me,
it's always about sharing these life experiences as a as a as a husband,
as a father, as a business owner, as a lawyer, and you
know, as a bills fan. These are the things that that give me
energy. They give me the drive, they give me the passion to kind
of do the things that I do. And so you know, when is
enough enough? Is I don't for me right now is enough? Yes,
But I'm living it and I want to share it with the people who mean
a lot to me and who I care about, and I want to have
another experience. So I'm going to the next experience because they just don't stop.
Because when it stops, it's over. I wanted to be. That's
sort of what I don't want it to be over. And I've told you
a bunch of times when we talked about at the time about you know,
my dad died at fifty nine. Yeah, very young, and he was
vibrant and active and just met a tragic circumstance. And so my whole thing
is I'm living large to fifty nine. I'm getting as much in as I
can, because after that, it's just gonna be frosting on the cake and
we're gonna have a good time. We're gonna have a great birthday party at
fifty nine and a bigger one at sixty. I can't what would be the
best advice you have ever received? And then I'll ask you what's the best
advice you think you've ever given. The best advice I probably ever received was
I was probably nine years old. Is treat others as you'd want to be
treated, or you want it your family to be treated, and if you
do that, you'll always be successful. Always. I don't I can't think
of one business where if you take that philosophy of life and put it into
a business that you will fail. I don't care. If it's pizza,
I don't care. If you're a surgeon, yeah, I don't care.
If you're a lawyer, if you're telecommunications, I don't care. If it's
Amazon. You treat someone like you want your family to be treated, and
you provide that you're going to be successful whatever you do. It's funny because
Arnie Roth's child will be coming up on a future pod. He and I
sat down and he said something very similar. He likes to work with people,
and he talked about the Palmer family of services and how Kip Palmer is
really somebody he I don't know if you necessarily a mentor was the right word,
but someone he admires in that during COVID and everything, it was about
the people that worked for him, and it was about all, you know,
doing not so much about the business, but the people that make the
business and making sure they were okay and keeping that and they were able to,
you know, work through all that. Everything worked out for them,
and it was almost a different thing because you do have to look at your
bottom line if you've got to see what's happening. And you know, yeah,
and I'll tell you our philosophy during COVID was very different than most businesses.
Most businesses kind of contracted and did cost cutting and you know, didn't
didn't invest in advertising and didn't invest in different things. And you know,
we tried to be smart in terms of business handling, in terms of safety,
health. We did come back. We did have employees that came back
and worked in the office a love. It was just out an assass city
of how our model is in the responsiness to clients and how we handle paperwork.
But one of things that we did very differently is our business runs on
eighteen to twenty four month revenue cycle. So the cases that we were dealing
with and resolving in twenty and twenty twenty one came in in eighteen and nineteen.
So if we didn't bring cases in and during COVID in twenty and twenty
one, where we would hit where our business hits the bad side of it
is twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, And so when that was
going on, we actually invested more into advertising and marketing because of the number
of people who were who needed our services were contracting because they weren't working and
they weren't people weren't out and about, which is where our business essentially comes
from. So the marketplace shrunk. So we had to be more competitive in
order to get that client. And one of the reasons why we did is
that we had people that work for us. We didn't want to have to
let them go. We wanted to keep them busy, we wanted to do
these things, so as everything else is contracting or on us, we actually
invested in those things. So when we came out of it, where we
are you know last year now that people had, you know, ability to
provide for their families and live and have work, and it worked out well
for us. There's other things that emerged outside of that. But you know,
when you think about for me, it's it's really about if you try
to treat people like you'd want your family be treated. Now. You know,
I can't say I always get along with my with my brother or my
sister or my aunts and uncles. You know, it's family, you always
some people don't process things the way you process things, or process things the
way that you think they should process things. But you know, and and
so that for me just kind of using that as a as a core kind
of mantra and uh. And then the other thing, which kind of is
a part of this, uh treating others of your family, is that the
little things make the biggest impact. Little things in terms of what like what
for example, like an our business, if you have a spouse, knowing
the spouse's name, yea, if when when they have kids, you know,
treating the kids and acknowledging the kids and talking to the kids. You
know, there's uh, there's nothing more important to a parent than their children.
And so just little things of that nature and making sure that on your
preparation that you look at every element of what's going on and you respond to
the questions, and that you have the thoroughness and your preparation that you have
contemplated everything that should be done, as opposed to just what you're thinking.
People come in and have very specific questions. Well, but there's so many
other things around that that if if you don't pay attention to the little things
that are around it, then you'll miss it. Yeah, and that can
have the biggest impact, and sometimes it's driving that, Yeah, the question.
I even think the little things, you know, Uh, it is
the little things, even in personal relationships, you know, the phone call,
the flower, the note, the whatever. I mean, those are
simple little things that sometimes we get so busy or forget about or I'm not
yeah, I'm not saying, I'm just you know, I think that those
are all very important and something to even remember. I mean from it's the
little things in life that yeah, really kind of connect the most, It's
true. And getting back to the life experience, right, I mean,
it's the little things that make the life experience that much more memorable and that
much more of an experience, you know, for us, like with Bill's
Training Camp, we do a lot of outreach to our community partners, you
know, the Boys and Girls Club, Big Brother, Big Sister Compere,
you know, and it's having the kids there. But it's not just having
the kids there, it's you know, we try to get We give them
a T shirt, we give them a gift bag, and it's those little
things that when when that experience of the moment is over, but they have
something that they can remember from. It just continues the experience and enhances the
experience. And you know, one of my one of you said, and
then the other party question is what advice have I given somebody that I think
is I've I've refined this throughout my life, but I think I've got it
down pretty good right now. Is that everybody should have core happiness. Yeah,
that you are happy regardless of who is in your life or what is
in your life, whether you have money, you don't have money, something
that gives you joy and happiness you have and that is your core base happiness.
It's your happiness. Should not be contingent or dependent upon someone or something
else, shouldn't be based on a car, or a house or a person.
I mean, I lost my father. He was, you know,
the most influential person in my life. He left, not out of his
choice, not out of my choice. But you have to maintain that happiness.
Now, what you need to do is then build the people around you
that enhance that happiness. Yeah, but people that are there that you have
should enhance your happiness. If people aren't enhancing your happiness, then then you
shouldn't. Then they don't belong or deserve to be in your life. Right.
And so when you when you can get to a point and appreciate or
identify what is your core happiness, and then I think it makes it easier
to have the people around you that enhance that. And then when people are
around you that aren't enhancing it, it's easier for you to direct your time
to those who do and then take away from you know, minimize or get
those people out of your life that aren't. And that's the hardest thing to
do for people, is people who you care about. Sometimes it's family that
aren't enhancing your happiness. You know, sometimes you need to give your time
to someone else who who appreciates it, and that enhances your life because life
is too short. Yeah, well that's very true. I always think,
yess unconditional happiness. I always think the word unconditional is impossible for human beings,
right, It's almost impossible, like we because you think about if this
person just changed, I would be so much happier. But you can't do
that. There's no assertion. You can't really do that. And at the
same time, you shouldn't change for somebody else, and you've got to be
happy in spite of those conditions. I like to think we should all evolve,
we should all move towards You should all evolve, and I, you
know, try to enhance other you know, your own life through that evolution.
The closest thing I can say in terms of unconditional love is the love
you have for your child. Yes. I will always love my kids.
Ye always. I mean not like them, I mean not like their decisions,
yes, but I will always love them. Yes. And there have
been times where I've told them I love you unconditionally, but I don't necessarily
like the decision you've made. I don't necessarily like this, but it doesn't
change my love for you. My love for you is unconditional. Unfortunately,
outside of children. You know you talk about your parents. I love my
mom. I don't can't say it's unconditional because sometimes she drives me crazy about
you know so, but I love her to dad. It's just you know,
it's unconditional. No, it's it's it's actually conditional. It's based upon
how do you you know? How is the how how am I feeling,
how is she feeling? What can I tolerate? What is my mindset?
What is going on in my life? You know, I would do anything
for my mom or my family. But you know, when you talk about
true unconditional love, I've only really experienced that in my in my kids.
Sure, and uh it's it's a great feeling. You know, that vulnerability
that you have for your kids. You just want to protect them. You
don't want to see him fail. But unfortunately, probably the biggest thing our
generation does is we don't allow our kids to fail. And I've always been
a big like stand back kind of let your skin your knee and learn.
Yeah, you know, I'm gonna let you fall off the edge. I
liked I like to if I think back, I would like to think that
I've done that. Yeah I don't. I think I'm I think I've intervened
and done more than I should have for them at times, or or prevented
that where perhaps they should have skin their knee a little bit more, you
know, and that's probably me overcompensating on my work. Uh. You know,
I spent so much time there, so when this happens, I want
to intervene to prevent that, so they you know, it's not as hard
of a fall because you know, had I been there, maybe they wouldn't
have made that decision. But you know, both my kids are are are
are wonderful, well intended, bighearted. Uh. Some of them are a
little stubborn, but you know they are my kids. So uh. But
yeah, unconditional love is uh, it's I just think it's something that people
love to say, and in theory it's yes, and we should try,
but it's almost impossible. Well, I've gotten in trouble in relationships because I
agree with you, but I need my As Luke told me just this past
weekend, Dad, you got to be quiet, okay, because you know,
if you ask me a question, I'll give you the answer. You
may not like the answer, yes, but it's the way I feel.
It's what I think if you don't want what I think or what I feel,
then don't ask. And what happens with people is that when you give
them your answer and it's not what they expect, they become disappointed in you,
which then impacts the way they feel about you. Yes, and that's
unfortunate because you ask me for my opinion, you ask me how I feel
when I give it to you. Is that one of the things you value
most in another person is is I don't want to call it brutal honesty,
but honesty like a true perspective, you know where you were saying, even
a mentor to kind of tell you how you really are, or and we
never see ourselves the way we are. I remember reading a book when the
boys were little. You should videotape how you interact with your kids, because
you never you think this in your head. And it's a different thing.
And I think you said early on you know someone who can tell you,
hey, you think you're really funny, but you're pretty inappropriate. Is that
something you value most in somebody else? I do? Yeah, I do.
And those are probably people the relationships that I cherish and value the most,
or the people that say, look, you know you're a good person,
but when you do this and this, you know, you may think
you see it this way, but others see it that way, and then
it's like, oh jeez, I never thought of that. That's the part
of self awareness. And I'd like to think that with the candidate of my
family growing up, they made you self aware because they were so critical of
you. And you know, the more success you have in life, the
more people pander to what they think you want to hear as opposed to the
honesty of it. And so for me at this stage in my personal life
and professional life, having people that are actually honest and candid with you about
now again doing it in a polite, respectful, you know manner is important
and not being critical negatively critical, but you know, saying you know,
look, you know you do this in the community, but how about also
I trying to do you know, deliver in this manner? Oh okay,
you know, I've never thought of that. So that to me is is
I probably value that more today than I did ever in my life. Did
you know you talk about goals? I've always joked that you will be the
future owner of the Buffalo Bills. Would there ever be a goal of that
or is you know, is there would that be something that you drive more
commas I got, I need to have more comments. You know interesting,
I don't know that I know anybody else who has the passion, but not
just the passion but also the insight and the knowledge of the game and the
you know decisions. You could be a coach on we have to be on
the podcast Big because you're great at that. Well, thanks for me.
When I think of when I think of like my my goals professionally in business
wise, investing wise, investing in myself and investing the people that are around
me, uh will give me the riches that will allow me do whatever my
path has in front of me. Would I like it to be the Buffalo
Bills? I have throughout my career looked into purchasing some professional sports teams here
locally and a lot of those models. Essentially, if you if you ever
want to lose a lot of money, invest in a a sports team that's
not one of the top four. And I've looked into it. Uh,
it's it's it's a challenge, it's a struggle, but you know, to
get to that level of wealth comes with a lot of sacrifice. And the
interesting thing for a lot of these guys that own NFL teams, they acquired
most of their wealth from their mid forties to their mid to late fifties.
Uh. And Terry Pagoula acquired his wealth. I think he was in his
late sixties when he went from being a successful entrepreneur oil and gas to monetizing
that twenty five year investment he had himself and turn himself into a billionaire.
So being fifty three right now, I still think I got a little bit
of sunway left, so I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Yeah, I
like I like that a lot. I think that's very good. Is there
goals like do you ever set even now? Or the I guess in an
interview of the last things like where do you see yourself in five years?
Is there anything like that for you? Or is it just you know,
whatever whatever opera, be open to whatever opportunity may come along next. So
I I kind of I kind of break things out in my life, you
know, between personal family business Connors and Ferris as well as investing. And
so with respect to the Connors and Ferriss business, is that you know,
we I try to play in three to five years ahead. We are here.
Where we are right now is not where I planned we were going to
be three years ago, or in with COVID and kind of an evolution of
the workforce and remote working in some of the other stresses and strains in the
workforce. We're not where I wanted to be or where I hope we would
be at this juncture. We're working towards that right now, and so as
I look as we look forward, you know, three to five years in
terms of business is really just fortifying our position here in Western New York,
in Central New York and providing the service. It's our business is getting harder,
it's not getting easier, and so it's trying to make sure that the
people who are working in Western New York have the representation and the responsiveness to
protect them because benefits in New York State and what we do are is significantly
harder today than it was five years ago, and it's only going to get
worse. So so we have to kind of change our model to adapt to
that. I think there's going to be contraction in our space just because it's
so much harder. It's harder to do the job, it's harder, the
demands are harder. You know. Outside of Connors and Ferris, I you
know, have friends and mentors within the investing and entrepreneurial side of things business
wise, and so I'm always looking at business ventures and opportunities within Western York
as well as outside of Western New York where where I can have an impact,
not only in Rochester and Buffalo in the Finger Lakes, but you know,
we're anywhere. In fact, one of the companies I invested in here
locally, we had hope that would would revolutionize how you do alternative fuels with
sweetwater. Unfortunately, sweetwater hasn't didn't go the way we were planned, but
part of part of the attraction to it was their commitment to give back to
Rochester. Again, didn't quick go as we had hope, because there were
a lot of hopes and aspirations that I could kind of bring an attention to
Chester and wealth to those who had invested that could help the community. But
just opportunities of that nature. Yeah, that's interesting. You kind of help
people reach their goals, you know. I mean it's one of the things
just when you're investing in something and believing in it, and I think there
are standards by which you judge that. But I think that that's, uh,
that's admirable. And the one thing I've come to learn through this,
you know, ten year evolution of that is when you you know, you
look at the business model, and you know, you look at the P
and L, you look at you know, the revenue streams they have,
and you know, how do they manage the expense? Is the one thing
that differentiates a successful business from the ones that aren't successful in many instances,
again borring things like COVID is uh, you bet on the individual who's running
it right, Whose vision is it, who's directing it, who's running it?
The ones who've been successful that I've invested in, it's the person.
It's the person who's the CEO, the founder who had that vision, had
that drive, was able to push through those you know, you ask the
question, you don't want to get up, you don't want to work out,
you want to do that? Who's going to get up and actually get
that done? Right? Uh? And and the people that do that are
the ones that ultimately in those instances have been successful, very very good.
I enjoyed this a lot. Yeah, this for Habit, it was a
really great conversation. Great Connors. Give them a call at two six to
comp for Connors and Ferris and uh opportunities. Man I I love it.
Be open to all those opportunities. I'm Bill Moran. Well see tomorrow the
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