WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.439 Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites. 2 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:21.399 So like Shay, subscribe and rad it timest me today listening, watching, 3 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:30.399 always keep it squatching and now your hosts Cliff Barkman and James Bobo Fay, 4 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:34.520 Good morning, Bobo. How are you doing today? Awesome? Awesome? 5 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.159 It's usually okay? What what makes today awesome? Is it just a 6 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:41.159 good mood or is there something going on? Or what's going on? We 7 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:44.840 had a raging storm? Oh I know you do love storms and a curse. 8 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:47.479 You're rotting? Are you are? Are you in the humble right now? 9 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:50.520 Are you down in La now? I'm still in the humble? Oh, 10 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:53.479 very good, very good. I'm glad you're up there because as storms 11 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:56.039 are a little bit more intense up there. You're right on the beach, 12 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:58.679 of course, so you get to see all this, all the weather come 13 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:02.479 in and the waves and whatnot. Is it snowing by any chance? It 14 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.719 might have before sunrise, but there's so much hail I couldn't tell. Okay, 15 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:08.920 very good, very good. Yeah, we got about three or four 16 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:11.319 inches on the ground right now where I am. Luckily I don't have to 17 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.799 go into work. Today because I hate driving in snow. Man. It's 18 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.599 one thing sitting inside the house looking at it, you know, it's beautiful, 19 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:19.879 but driving in that stuff just makes me want to pull my eyes out. 20 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:23.879 Man, dude, I'm not gonna do it at all. When I 21 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.640 had those spikes, snow tires, studded snow tires, it was an all 22 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.040 wheel drive, four wheel drive on full time, it was. It wasn't 23 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:34.239 so bad. Yeah, well, pretty rare that it snows down where you 24 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.439 are right, Oh yeah, like every five ten years. Okay, yeah, 25 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:41.439 we usually get it three or four times a year or something. But 26 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.480 um, cool, Hey, I got got something kind of interesting happening I 27 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:46.840 want to share with you again a couple of weeks. I'm not truy, 28 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:49.400 I'm supposed to talk about it, but sometimes I don't care. I think 29 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.439 it's gonna be okay. Um, North American big Foot Center, the big 30 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:56.879 Foot Museum that I'm lucky enough to work at it own, has been invited 31 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:01.040 by the Portland Trailblazers can participate in a big Foot Night at the Moda Center. 32 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:05.280 So we're getting a booth, like a ten by ten booth, and 33 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:08.400 we're getting some free tickets and uh, making some display stuff to come do 34 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:15.000 a little miniature Bigfoot display at the Moda Center for a Trailblazer game. And 35 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:17.639 I believe, I believe, um kind of. This is kind of a 36 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.919 scary thing for me because I got to piece it all together, but I 37 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.599 believe they asked me to put together a thirty to sixty second advertisement commercial thing 38 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:31.599 to show on the jumbo tron to everybody. Yeah awesome, is your brother 39 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:35.560 coming up? I don't know, I don't have That would be fun if 40 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:37.280 he could, I don't know. I didn't even ask him. I should 41 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:39.039 ask him though, he Um, he probably has a little loose income. 42 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:42.199 You can drop up on a plane. That'd be a lot of fun. 43 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:44.520 But yeah, so, I mean there's a lot of stress right now. 44 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:50.199 And what's the date for that? March fourteenth? March fourteenth, absolutely too 45 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.159 much time now, Yeah, March fourteenth. I think we're playing the Knicks. 46 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.280 Is that a basketball team? Yeah? There you go. Yeah, 47 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:59.080 so I think that's what we're playing. Because you know, I missed your 48 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:01.960 sport guy. Yeah, yeah, nothing. I love more than sports. 49 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:06.719 But you don't got to be a sports guy to love the watching the Blazers 50 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.000 because you guys got Lillard. Well, you know what, I will say 51 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:15.639 that I have been to several Portland Trailblazer games. Basketball is not a stranger 52 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.240 to me. I'm not familiar with it. I don't follow sports, but 53 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.759 I do enjoy watching games, and basketball is one of those sports that I 54 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:24.000 really enjoy watching, so as well as football, Bobo. And I have 55 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:28.599 to say that I enjoy watching football now because of you. Right on, 56 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:31.159 yeah, finding Bigfoot. You know you you would refuse to work on Sundays 57 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:34.520 because it's Holy Days. And I don't mean you know, church, I 58 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.960 mean football, and you would refuse to work on your Holy days. And 59 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.080 we would go to the bars or whatever and watch games, and I would 60 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:44.599 ask you questions and you would teach me like holy spokes or strategy in that 61 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.520 game. He big guys running into each other. Yeah, more or less, 62 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.719 good time. It is, well, nonetheless nonethless. So that's an 63 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:55.840 exciting thing. On March fourteenth, I'll be at the Moda Center with a 64 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:00.599 Bigfoot pop up museum, you know, spreading the true faith basically to the 65 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.159 unwashed masses who may or may not realize sasquatches are real. Dude. I 66 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:06.639 gotta because I might be coming up that way around that time, I'm going 67 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:10.080 to try to make that Well, how many takes do they give you? 68 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:12.919 I don't know. I haven't found that out yet. She's looking into that. 69 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.599 I spoke to her yesterday afternoon, but it's not a good time. 70 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:17.959 I gotta give him the video by like March third, and today's for our 71 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.759 listeners. Today it's the twenty second of February that we're recording this, So 72 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:26.560 I got to give him the video by March third. But on March twenty 73 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.160 or February twenty eighth, I have to post a video for our museum members 74 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.040 that I still have to piece together. So I've got a lot of video 75 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:35.279 production ahead of me in the next week or something like that. And then 76 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:39.279 there's other I've got a production meeting today for that TV show that I'm working 77 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.560 on, and then podcast scheduled. Man, I'm a busy, busy cliff 78 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.480 right now. I think I'm well, I'm going out to Portland, Washington 79 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:48.600 area, like Tacomas. Yet it looks like it's a long story. I'll 80 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:51.800 leave that part out, but it should be right around that time, within 81 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:56.839 a week of that that time, when the game is but a buddy a 82 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.360 buddy of mine who's pretty big up in his company. He oversees they have 83 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:08.079 like seventy buildings different facilities around you know, Washington and a couple of neighboring 84 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:14.360 states. So he's he's we're going down to for a display by this company. 85 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.079 They represent Flear and other companies for a commercial security purposes, and they 86 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:23.879 have a bunch of like high end thermal imagers, like those cameras like the 87 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.160 double like where there's a thermal loser next to a camera they overlay the image. 88 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:29.040 Yeah, so we're going on. He's going to get some of the 89 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:33.360 those for us and put him on his security purposes at the facilities. He's 90 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:36.439 going to get a couple of units and then we'll use it for that, 91 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:40.240 but then we'll be able to take him out for squashing whenever we want. 92 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:44.600 Oh that's cool. Yeah. Well, hey, if you're cruising through, 93 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.279 I may ask you to remove that trailer at some point the next couple of 94 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.279 months because Melissa's getting her business off the ground and we may need the space 95 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:55.240 for storage in there. So heads up on that, fair enough. I's 96 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.000 gonna get it when it's not raining. That's fine, that's fine. That's 97 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.079 want to put that bug in your ear, to let that bug germ and 98 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:01.959 eat and see what you can do with it. So there's that. And 99 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.319 of course I say that on the air because I've actually taken emails about your 100 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:11.360 trailer. People seem to be interested in your trailer, if that helps you 101 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:15.040 at all. So again, you're missing the boat man Bobo's big Foot Airbnb 102 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.560 at some campground that could be happening. You can make dozens of dollars. 103 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:25.319 All right, Well, you know what, we don't want to keep our 104 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.040 guests waiting too much longer because we have a fantastic guest today. I don't 105 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.800 I've met Aaron many times. I call him a friend. I don't know 106 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.000 him real well. We haven't hung out too much. I'd like to hang 107 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.519 out with them more. He's one of these one of these friends that I 108 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:40.800 see at the conferences that I speak at occasionally and ships passing in the night 109 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.319 sort of thing. Um. And I know you've met him a handful of 110 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.800 times, even way back in the beginning of finding Bigfoot. He was on 111 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.040 a press tour with us. But yeah, this guy, I mean, 112 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.160 I've known Aaron. His name's Aaron Sagers, of course, and I've known 113 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:56.800 Aaron for years, but it wasn't until I was actually reading his biography on 114 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:00.040 his website, Aaron Sagers dot Com that I realize, Holy crap, this 115 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.360 guy's got is this guy's everywhere I know the name, Yeah, exactly, 116 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.480 most people I think in the paranormal world would because he's a well, I 117 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.000 mean, he's a journalist. He's a he's an expert in all things nerdy. 118 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.639 He's a TV presenter. He hosts his own podcast called Talking Strange. 119 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:18.879 UM a fantastic podcast. And I can say that because I was on it. 120 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:23.680 That's a difference between that decent podcast and a fantastic podcast is one that 121 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:26.879 I've been on. Um, of course I'm kidding, of course. Um. 122 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.920 He's He's currently the host of Netflix series twenty eight Days Haunted. He's 123 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.720 regularly on Paranormal Caught on Camera, which is on Discovery Plus and the Travel 124 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:40.600 Travel Channel. They're going into their sixth season. He's been on a slew 125 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.600 of other television shows. He's written for all sorts of different media outlets. 126 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.720 He's a television personality. He's man if I if we were just to talk 127 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:51.279 about Aaron's achievements and things that he's done that. We would spend the entire 128 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:56.199 hour doing that. So screw that. Let's bring Aaron Sagers and Aaron thank 129 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:59.600 you very much for spending some time with Cliff and the Bobs. Hey, 130 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:01.639 Cliff, Bobo, thanks for having me you guys. Oh, it is 131 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.519 our pleasure, our pleasure, and I'd really do mean that. If we 132 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:09.560 were just to go through your resume, it would take the entire hour and 133 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:11.600 then we'd have everything that we would do be in our members section. But 134 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:16.439 yeah, you just heart everywhere. How long have you been in this game? 135 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:22.319 Well, I guess I would probably tag the beginning of my journalism career. 136 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.920 I don't know, probably like I did it in college and whatnot. 137 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:31.320 But it really seemed like I was cooking with gas around two thousand and three, 138 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:37.440 two thousand and four, and then by the time I got into maybe 139 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:39.240 even like two thousand and two. By the time I got into like oh, 140 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.720 five oh six, I had kind of established enough capital. I was 141 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.960 working as an editor for some magazines and newspapers and whatnot that I was able 142 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.759 to start talking about all this strange stuff, you know, whether you whether 143 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:58.919 we call it paranormal or unexplained or high strangeness or whatever. So that's kind 144 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:05.000 of when I first started talking about it in the mainstream media, and thankfully 145 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.679 was able to continue to do so, and then the job kept expanding from 146 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:13.159 there. So do you see yourself mostly as a journalist with like TV gig 147 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.720 things on the side of media, other media formats on the side, or 148 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.720 what, or do you even see yourself as having a main gig. Dude, 149 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.919 I don't even know anymore. I don't well, honestly, I don't. 150 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:31.639 I don't even really know what journalism is specifically these days. I mean, 151 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.440 I think there are still good journalists out there, but the nature of 152 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.919 media has changed so drastically in five years and ten years, much less the 153 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.440 you know, fifteen years now that I've been doing this sort longer than fifteen. 154 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:52.200 So I say, I still say journalists as far as I enjoy researching, 155 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.879 I enjoy conducting interviews and getting the story behind the story. But I'm 156 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:03.960 kind of an all around media creator with TV and you know, the podcasting 157 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.799 stuff over there and being a storyteller over here. But it all comes from 158 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.600 that journalistic core. So it sounds like you are truly a storyteller, whether 159 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:20.720 you're telling stories in print or on screen or on radio or whatever the media, 160 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:26.000 you're truly a storyteller chasing those tidbits. Yeah, I try to be, 161 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:31.799 and I really I really love hearing from people and hearing from the stories. 162 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:37.200 I mean, I did get my start as a journalist doing your more 163 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.240 traditional stuff, you know, news coverage. I did a little bit of 164 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.519 blood and guts kind of stuff early on, and then evolved out of that. 165 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.600 I started doing some travel things and then really settled into the entertainment world, 166 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.679 and then from there kind of moved into the TV producing and hosting stuff. 167 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:00.240 But I yeah, I love getting stories out of people, and I 168 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:07.759 love researching these tidbits and finding out like how deep those roots go, and 169 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:16.720 and I guess sort of becoming this expert in bursts about these topics. And 170 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:24.039 it doesn't mean an expert on the level of someone that's done academic study for 171 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:26.879 decades, but you know that it's almost like you wear this hat for a 172 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:31.440 little bit of a time and you dive deep into a topic and you're like, 173 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.720 okay, I have absorbed this information to borrow like a quote from the 174 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:37.399 matrix. It's like I know kung fu. Now, It's like you just 175 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.879 dive in and then you absorb it and then move forward with it. It's 176 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.759 it's exciting in that way to research, talk to people, and then tell 177 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.600 those stories. I absolutely love that. Was your first love media and the 178 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:56.480 pop culture side of things or was it the strange paranormal sort of thing. 179 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.320 What was your like looking back to when you're a little boy or would what 180 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.639 do you think what the seed was that led you here? I also I 181 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:09.480 often talk to my parents and I'm like, so little little er Aaron, 182 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.240 was he like this or what was it like? Oh? Yeah, you 183 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.679 were into all this stuff and that was it is like as a kid, 184 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:22.440 I was reading science fiction and comic books and watching horror movies and also digging 185 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:31.159 in deep to these stories of the unexplained, of paranormal watching reruns of In 186 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.600 Search of with Letter Ny Moy or Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack, and then 187 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:41.679 the time life Mysteries of the Unknown series of books. I love those so 188 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.120 like it kind of all formed at the same time. I had so much 189 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:50.840 love for the weird stuff as much as I did for Star Wars and superhero 190 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.080 comic books. It just kind of all emerged at the same time, and 191 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:01.279 it continued to do. It continues to be a part of me because when 192 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.720 the paranormal TV stuff started happening for me, yeah, I'm like, okay, 193 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.759 this is cool, but I was still I'm sure you guys can probably 194 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.799 attest to this, but reality TV doesn't necessarily pay a whole lot. So 195 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.879 I was still doing the gig of a journalist while also the early TV stuff. 196 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.159 And then some of those shows and those genres went away for a little 197 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.559 bit of a time, and I'm like, all right, cool. Then 198 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:31.679 I was kind of working in the world of sci fi of the network Siffy 199 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:37.879 and creating nerdy TV shows and nerdy videos with them, and still working as 200 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.360 a journalist, and then it seemed like the paranormal and unexplained stuff kind of 201 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:46.639 came back and sucked me back in. It's like the Godfather, Like, 202 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:48.039 you know, I keep trying to get out, they keep pulling me back 203 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:54.600 in. Well, you know, I do often refer to these jobs whatever 204 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:58.519 as gigs in the same partly because of my musician background or whatever. Like 205 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:00.600 you go to a job and you do that job, and you go away 206 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.440 and you're maybe you get called back for another job or whatever. But TV 207 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.600 and um and these sort of appearances are very similar in that sort of way. 208 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.759 UM. And I'm probably a lot of people, I imagine who are 209 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.440 listening to us who have nine to five sort of five day a week jobs, 210 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.320 UM don't understand that it's or may not understand it as well as those 211 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.399 who have been in the trenches for a while, I should say, because 212 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.080 you know the TV. The TV gigs don't pay really really well, but 213 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.399 they're a job and they keep you going for a moment, but you got 214 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.200 to find something else soon, um, or you're gonna run out of money. 215 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.519 It's a bottom line. So I think that I can at least sympathize 216 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.759 with you or understand where you're coming from with that. And I want to 217 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.279 explain that to some of our audience there, just in case they don't understand, 218 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.360 because you know, they're having a regular job is great because you get 219 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:46.519 a paycheck that's predictable. But these are gigs, you know, like I'm 220 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.159 doing. The proof is out there. I think it's History Channel or any 221 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.679 or something. I'm not even I think it's any You know that that's one 222 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:54.480 job and it helps me get through the month, but at the end of 223 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.519 the day, there's other things that are going on, and you know, 224 00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:58.240 you've got to make a living. And I would say I would add to 225 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.759 that like something that I think, having moved to the newspaper and magazine world 226 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.240 in both and witnessing good and bad times, when I when I first started 227 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:16.639 in newspapers, I loved the the vibe of a newsroom. I still kind 228 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:24.919 of have a romanticized memory of it. And then I saw, of course 229 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.840 the cratering of that industry and having to adapt and figure out how to do 230 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.440 the news and how to create media in a changing landscape. But what that 231 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:41.679 taught me was never to entirely put your eggs in one basket. So then 232 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:48.000 when I started doing the TV stuff, I certainly, when you when you 233 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:52.559 do projects, you hope for the best. But I knew enough by that 234 00:15:52.799 --> 00:16:00.360 point to not hold my breath that this is going to be some bonkers game 235 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:06.159 changing experience in my life. Is going to be the glamor and glitz of 236 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:10.200 television and you know, Hollywood, the show biz. And I was not 237 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:15.840 seduced by that. And unfortunately, I think some people that enter into some 238 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.159 of the TV stuff. In fact, I know of someone very recently that 239 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.360 they did a couple episodes of a TV show and they quit their day job, 240 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.519 and they're like, this is it. This is I'm a TV guy 241 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:30.200 now, this is all I do. And I'm like, that was probably 242 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:36.919 not the smartest move. So that gig mentality, yes, I think was 243 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:41.480 kind of I kind of embedded that early on, just from working in newspapers 244 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:47.639 and watching a changing media landscape. You know, when I'm working at the 245 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.440 museum and somebody comes in and they'd say, oh my god, you're here. 246 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.600 I knew you owned it, but I didn't. They're shocked that I 247 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.159 have a job. So no, of course I have a job. Well, 248 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.120 I thought the TV thing was just like, well no, man, 249 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.919 I mean that's not just not the way it works. You know, your 250 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.720 bosses don't want to pay you a bunch of money to keep you bathing in 251 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.319 champagne the rest of your life or something like that. So yeah, if 252 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.440 we did, if we did the shows like twenty years or even ten years 253 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.119 earlier, we would have been probably set. But by the time we got 254 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.559 there, they'd already dropped way. Oh and it's even changed since we went 255 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.440 off the air. You know, they're with streaming and everything. The money 256 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:23.640 just is not there. And I've I've had to talk to a couple of 257 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:27.119 people who are pitching shows or whatever, and and I'm saying, well, 258 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:32.279 hey, man, like we were the last generation that possibly that that really 259 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:33.920 makes money, or we made some money. We made it's pretty okay money 260 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.519 at the end there, but like nowadays, it's not much, man, 261 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.359 It's just not much money in the TV thing because everything went streaming. Even 262 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:47.079 just the budget that I imagine for you guys to travel, just just to 263 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:52.920 travel alone. I look at that and I'm like, there's not a lot 264 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.240 of shows that can pull that off these days and get those kinds of budgets. 265 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.319 I mean, and those big companies that are gobbling up everything else, 266 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.000 it's not like they're adding more money to the pot to make all these projects 267 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.119 happen. They're trimming. They're trimming, trimming and trimmy. So it's like, 268 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:08.960 hey, this is a great idea. Let's make this show. We're 269 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.039 gonna bounce you around. You're gonna go check out phenomena here and then here 270 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.759 and then here. It's like, oh, well, upon looking at the 271 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:22.599 budget, maybe just a couple of spots right in that one location instead of 272 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.839 traveling all over the place. Right, somebody asked me, I was I 273 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:29.400 was talking to this person who was pitching some show and they were picking my 274 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.000 brain about it, and they and I said, well, the money is 275 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:33.200 just not there anymore. And this person was shocked, right, And I 276 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:36.519 go, well, when she well, where is it? And I say, 277 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:37.720 well, I think the same amount of money is there. But as 278 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.200 you mentioned earlier, I think aaron is that there are so maybe this is 279 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:47.119 before we started recording. There are so many outlets and so many TV shows 280 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.799 and so many networks and streaming this and podcasts. I think it's the same 281 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.480 amount of money, but it's so thinly distributed at this point, you know 282 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:57.359 that there's not a lot of money in anyone location as a deal. Yeah, 283 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:02.559 And I'm I'm looking at all of this and it's I would say that 284 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.359 I have a pretty good track record of being able to predict landscape, you 285 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.319 know, not necessarily an infallible track or pretty pretty good, like I can 286 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.039 kind of see where things are going. And this is such a strange time 287 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.559 because on one hand, it looks like we're basically going back to the old 288 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:25.240 cable model in some ways, because it's just like these bundlings of services and 289 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.799 channels and whatnot, except they're on streaming. But in other ways, I'm 290 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:33.039 not entirely certain. I don't, And it's and it's trickier gauging the metric 291 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:41.799 of success, right because there is such competition for people's eyeballs and and ear 292 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:48.519 holes and attention that what counts as a successful thing anymore, that that's harder 293 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.039 to gauge. And even when something is a success, it might just be 294 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.279 canceled because it's like, well, yeah, no, this was a this 295 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.559 was a good show on the network, but so yeah, it's too expensive 296 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.400 to make or whatever, so we just have to move on or change and 297 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.680 change of the guard, you know. Yeah. I keep wondering, like 298 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.400 how many more topics are they gonna delve into? Like how many more are 299 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.640 I mean, I guess there's infinite as far as creativity goes. But I 300 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.039 just don't see the industry as being that creative anymore. I see them regurgitating 301 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.640 the same old nonsense, and it looks like regurgitation to me, you know. 302 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:25.119 But I'm not a TV guy either though, so I don't know well, 303 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:26.319 and I don't even know that I would say I'm I'm a nerd. 304 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:30.160 I'm I'm a journalist, and I love this. I like, I legitimately 305 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:36.920 love the topics that I talk about, and I am always fascinated by the 306 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.680 business side of it just because I like. I like knowing how the sausage 307 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.160 is made, not just with TV but anything. I like getting kind of 308 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.680 in there right and figuring stuff out. But it's amusing that for something that's 309 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.920 supposed to be creative, people say, yeah, we want the new thing, 310 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.640 the next new thing, except when you try to bring them the next 311 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:02.319 new thing, it's like, well, maybe maybe more like that other thing. 312 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:04.279 Yeah, you guys are saying there are regurds to the Cliff. I 313 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.400 would say they are all regerds to think, so I make it all way 314 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.240 through the lower bowel system and come out as actual crap. Yeah. Probably 315 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:17.839 probably stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right 316 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:26.400 back after these messages. It seems to me that the industry is more run 317 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.480 by fear than creativity because they don't want to try anything new. They don't 318 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:36.119 want they don't want any groundbreaking stuff because they're afraid to spend that money on 319 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.519 something that may not work. But if they know that they get mediocre numbers 320 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.839 on stuff that has worked before, they're going to spend money on that, 321 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.839 and we get the same old nonsense and there's nothing to move down the court, 322 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.200 which is unfortunate because in this day and age, and Lauren Coleman is 323 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.960 a person who I thinks first started writing about this, I want to give 324 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:56.359 credit where credit is due. Lauren has noted for years that at this moment, 325 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:03.240 reality TV is basically the monetary driving force behind cryptid and sasquatch research, 326 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.839 which is a total shame because I don't I don't believe the shows because TV 327 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:14.559 does, TV has no obligation whatsoever to be real. The word reality and 328 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.240 that reality TV thing is just they the people in the biz don't even call 329 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:22.920 it reality TV because they know it's not real. They call it unscripted, 330 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:26.119 which means that they don't have to hire writers because they're in the union and 331 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.160 it costs a lot less. Basically, reality TV was born from the writer's 332 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.759 strike when the nineties or whenever that was, I don't know when they were. 333 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:33.559 I don't know. I'm an old man. My sense of time is 334 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:38.079 elastic. But um yeah, reality TV is not reality TV. It is 335 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:42.039 unscripted TV where they don't have to tell Bobo to memorize lines. Can you 336 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.240 imagine if they did that, Bob's what a nightmare that would be? Like 337 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:49.000 we had to memorize lines we don't have with the Bobo Monster movie with small 338 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.440 town monsters. Oh yeah, we can record a Seth breed love. Do 339 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.640 you know Seth Seth stuff there? Aaron I do. And it's funny because, 340 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.720 yeah, I'm familiar with him, I'm impressed. I'm I'm really impressed 341 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:04.759 by his output. And it was only recently, though, that we started 342 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.640 chatting virtually, And one of the first things I said to him is, 343 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:12.240 I'm like, how do we not already know each other? You know, 344 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:18.000 It's it's like you end up knowing everyone in the community or you know, 345 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.359 in this this strange little world, and then occasionally someone will pop up and 346 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:23.920 I'm like, no, I know your work, I appreciate your work, 347 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:27.480 and yet somehow we haven't known each other. We haven't actually started chatting until 348 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:33.319 now, so we've only recently kind of connected and started speaking. But man, 349 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.319 yeah, he's he's got a really impressive track record, and he's also 350 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.599 someone that I look at and I'm like, Oh, this dude's kind of 351 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:48.920 figured it out because he's figured out how to create and execute things with his 352 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:57.880 vision and make money doing it and not be beholden to the strict kind of 353 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.279 network kind of guidance. You know, he's kind of managed to figure out 354 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.319 the way around that. Yeah, network guidance tends to screw up a lot 355 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.519 of projects in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, they're not. I mean 356 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.519 that's just me as a big Footer because you know, I was on your 357 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:18.559 podcast we talked about this, like truth is extraordinarily important in bigfooting. Like 358 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.519 if you lie about anything like well bigfoot stuff, then then you're done. 359 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:25.720 But even if you're known to not be telling the truth in your regular life, 360 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:29.279 like it kind of affects your reputation and bigfoot. You know, truth 361 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:34.039 is always the tantabout importance. It's it's number one, and TV that oftentimes 362 00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.119 encourages you do the opposite, which is unfortunate. So in your opinion, 363 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:42.240 Eron, is there an obligation or where is the obligation when you're dealing into 364 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.839 real subjects and I'm not talking about things that are just nonsense and everybody kind 365 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.599 of knows it but like I'm talking about sasquatches and things that are actually real, 366 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:55.599 where is the obligation to tell the truth? Is that in the network? 367 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.279 Is that in the production team, or is that in the on screen 368 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.559 talent? For Life A Better Turn? Where does it lie? I think 369 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.839 that's a great question. I don't know that I have a great answer for 370 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.480 it, because, yes, of course, ideally you would like it to 371 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:17.359 be driven from the top down from the network, but that's not necessarily the 372 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:22.079 case because what do they want to do. They want to make TV that 373 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.480 people watch, that advertisers buy into, and they have a return on their 374 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:33.839 investment from so they're thinking profit and hopefully the producers will want to tell truth 375 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:41.720 and be accurate, but they're also having to listen to the network who's providing 376 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.519 the money to make the show. And then you get down to the talent. 377 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:49.160 And depending on the talent, there's someone that is really green or without 378 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:55.359 a lot of influence. They are not necessarily going to be the person that 379 00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.759 can speak the entire truth. They're going to also have the guide from the 380 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.319 producers who are paying their bills and the networks who are paying the bills, 381 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:11.759 and if they kind of branch off of that mission too much or move off 382 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.519 of the talking points, then it's easy enough to replace them and bring in 383 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:22.759 someone who will unless that person acquires enough influence that they can sort of then 384 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.400 say like, Okay, this is the truth and you can't edit me because 385 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.240 I also have enough power or ability that you know, you got to deal 386 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.359 with what I say. And then there's this other side of things where I 387 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:40.680 recognize that you need to be truthful, but we also have to let the 388 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:51.519 audience know like this is ultimately edited and is an entertainment product. That doesn't 389 00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:56.400 mean you should just lie and get away with that line. But I do 390 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:02.519 encourage a kind of a media literacy see with the viewers that you have to 391 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:07.480 say like, yeah, you know, we we try our best to present 392 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:14.119 the truth and not say something that is untrue. But I am not in 393 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:21.079 the editing bay cutting together the final episode, you know. So what I 394 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:25.160 try to do is, let's say, with paranormal caught on camera, I 395 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:30.119 try to not validate and not debunk things that I am seeing. I try 396 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:38.640 to pull from a reference of history in theories and things I have read that 397 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.920 I can speak to. And then when I see stuff that I know is 398 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:53.599 totally bonkers and easily invalidated. I will say this is my thought, or 399 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.279 I'm not going to comment on this because I have nothing to really add to 400 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:03.039 what you're what story you're trying to tell here, I will say, to 401 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:08.839 the credit of paranormal caught on camera, I've haven't seen any disastrous editing on 402 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.319 me, So if I say something stupid, it's all me, and I 403 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:21.039 haven't been pushed too much to try to say something that is a blatant uh, 404 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:25.799 you know, falsehood or whatever. They might say like, well, 405 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:27.440 what do you what do you think about this? And I will say I 406 00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.599 don't think much about that at all, or I don't I don't necessarily agree 407 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.960 with that, and they're like, Okay, if you don't want to comment 408 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.559 on this one, that's okay, which I like. For at least one 409 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.039 one off gigs, that's all you can really ask for, you know, 410 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.960 unless unless you are a cast member on a series. That's all you can 411 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.799 ask for is a producers who understand that you're not willing to do that, 412 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:51.759 you know, to falsuppy stuff, as some people on camera are. Frankly, 413 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:55.720 I've been lucky enough to work with the productions that don't push me that 414 00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:57.680 direction because the knew they wouldn't get it anyway. Yeah, but certainly you've 415 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:03.640 seen yourself edited in ways that later on had to piss you off. Well, 416 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.880 I will say this that I'm so distrustful of the media that I don't 417 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.559 watch the programs I'm in. You know, I watched I watched Finding Bigfoot 418 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.960 to make sure that exact same thing didn't happen. Um. And in fact, 419 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:15.680 that was one of the things one of the deals that we made with 420 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:19.680 the production company and the network and the rocky days, the early days of 421 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:23.839 Finding big Foot, UM, was when we were concerned about the final edits 422 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.279 and deceptive editing and that sort of stuff that the network, Um, Animal 423 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:32.440 Planet fantastic, love them and and Ping Pong came around too. There. 424 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.039 They were fantastic and great to us. Um. They gave us the edit 425 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:40.400 before it aired, just to make sure that everything was cool at that point, 426 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:42.079 And that's kind of unheard of. Yeah. I got screwed by that 427 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:47.920 that Sasquatch documentary on Hulu, that three part series Sasquatch was with the murders 428 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:49.920 on the pot farms, and they swore like, oh yeah, we're we 429 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.440 got all the integrity and blah blah blah. And so they were saying, 430 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.559 like, well, uh, have ever heard these stories about guys getting killed? 431 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.160 I said, yeah, I've looked into several of them. Every one 432 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.680 of them has been a cover up for a murderer or it just was. 433 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.599 The whole thing was bus And they said, well, what stories did you 434 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:08.400 hear like that? And I told him some stories. I said, I 435 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.359 don't believe this, and I said, don't don't put this into that. 436 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:14.839 I'm saying this, but I was told this. It turned out to be 437 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.240 false and it was this, and they they put it into a like that 438 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:19.480 was what I was saying. They cut up the parts where I said it 439 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:25.559 was false. I remember, Bobo. I. So I saw that early. 440 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:30.160 I got like some media previews of it, and I actually I enjoyed 441 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.720 the overall show, and I saw you in it. I'm like, oh, 442 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:38.000 okay, this is interesting. And then I had I saw after it 443 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:44.359 after it aired that you were unhappy with it, and it bummed me out. 444 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.640 It bummed me out because I thought I had a good hold on the 445 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.839 people that we're doing it and it's and I've been there, man, where 446 00:30:53.880 --> 00:31:00.839 it's like it's like you say this one thing couch within a longer factual statement 447 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.799 of like yeah, yeah, you know, I've heard about this x y 448 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.240 Z thing, but now I don't believe that, but they take out the 449 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.799 i've heard of x y Z thing. You know. Yeah. I guess 450 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.880 that's a good lesson for people who are on camera is say things in short, 451 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:19.799 short sentences that they can't edit very effectively. Yeah. I try to 452 00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:25.839 work in I try to work in so many allegedly's and supposedly or according to 453 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:30.640 theory or in the middle of a sentence to make it harder to add it. 454 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.039 I used to do that too. Yeah, sou Paranormal Caught on camera 455 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.000 that that's an everything sort of show. I don't want get to twenty eighties 456 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:42.880 Haunted in a minute, but Paranormal count on camera. There's there's no topic 457 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.599 that I think is probably off limits to that. It's one of those clip 458 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:49.480 shows where they show a clip and then they have some nerd like meats or 459 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:56.000 you or what we're talking about. It essentially of the stuff that you've seen 460 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.799 on the show, What are some of your favorite topics to cover? Yeah, 461 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:02.240 So, I mean it's now in its sixth season, and I've been 462 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.160 with them since the second season. It's so yeah, we cover a lot 463 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:13.880 of ground, and yet like twenty six episodes a season and then maybe six 464 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.759 or seven clips per episodes, so there's a lot out there. And I 465 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.079 mean, for me personally, I like the weirder the better, the stuff 466 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:30.920 that I see coming out of far corners of this great big globe and kind 467 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:37.799 of lean into some sort of folklore or legend. And I like those because, 468 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:45.240 first off, it expands the conversation about these legends beyond just a very 469 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:53.799 kind of Euro American centric perspective, which is what has dominated television this genre. 470 00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:00.359 So I like seeing more people that don't look like me telling their stories 471 00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:06.599 and talking about these legends specifically, so weird stuff like you know, weird 472 00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:12.599 stuff coming out of Russia and Australia and stuff like that. The within like 473 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:19.240 sort of the the Sasquatch realm. I don't claim to be a researcher on 474 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.359 the level of you guys, but I like to think that I'm a pretty 475 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:28.200 good judge of character. And I like gauging sort of the psychology of witnesses 476 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.680 as much as I can from looking at a clip, and there was this 477 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.200 one and maybe you'll be able to pierce this bubble. But there was this 478 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:42.799 one that was shot around Christmas time whereas a family gathered together and just you 479 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:46.319 know, they're filming this Christmas dinner and their dog starts freaking out and they 480 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:52.759 look outside and they walk outside and they see some figure, you know, 481 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.240 bipedal figure walking along the tree line, and they're like, what the hell 482 00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.759 is that? And then the dog, a little dog like a Jack Russell 483 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:04.799 Terry, freaks out and starts running towards it, and then a beat later 484 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:08.480 gets very freaked out and then runs all the way back. And it's I 485 00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:14.719 liked that one because it felt like it was not I don't know, it 486 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:21.000 felt like people were behaving in a believable way, and even the dog was 487 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.079 acting in a kind of a believable way. That was one I liked. 488 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.920 I can see why people liked it, but I wasn't impressed with it. 489 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.239 Tell me why, And I'm not challenging, I'm I'm curious. I want 490 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:34.800 to get in your head. I just just thinking, like those who wouldn't 491 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:38.599 be talking like that if I thought the reactions were somewhat you know, like 492 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:44.599 bad acting yeah maybe. But the one thing I will I will say as 493 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:50.960 far as people's reactions is people react in funny ways when they're encountering tragedy, 494 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:59.400 in encountering strange, um, just just bizarre but explainable experiences. Some you 495 00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:04.199 know, people laugh, people act normal. It's almost like sometimes it sets 496 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.679 in later. Um, but I don't know. I've seen people behave in 497 00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:17.119 the midst of like horrible situations acting fairly almost lighthearted about it. So I 498 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:22.320 try to apply that to these encounters that sometimes maybe people would be like, 499 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:25.840 Okay, this is odd. What is that? What is that? Huh? 500 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.360 I don't know. I don't know. I have seen people behave that 501 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:35.599 way. Yeah, you know, I when I have to do these shows, 502 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.079 I enjoy the stuff that you're mentioning too, because when it comes down 503 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:42.599 to the bigfoot Thingum, other people consider me an expert on sasquatches. I 504 00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.320 don't necessarily do that myself. Um, maybe an expert on the topic or 505 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.239 the subject or something, But I don't know. Big Foots are pretty mysterious 506 00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:50.840 to me still. You know, in a lot of ways, I know 507 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.079 a couple of things, or as I think I know a couple of things 508 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:58.119 so I like the stuff that I have no experience in because the pressure's off, 509 00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:00.960 you know, like it. Show me, show some UFO stuff, 510 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:01.920 and I'll say, oh, that's cool, because that brings me back to 511 00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:07.280 when I was eight years old watching In Search of or whatever. Whereas if 512 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:09.719 you show me a sasquatch thing, I'm not only expected to already know the 513 00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:13.760 clip and to have done the research, but I'm also expected to be right 514 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.159 even if I if there's no way to know anything. I don't like the 515 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:21.280 pressure of that sometimes, you know what I mean, Yeah, yeah, 516 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.679 totally. And then if you can draw from I think even though I'm terrible 517 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:32.639 about remembering things like birthdays and whatnot, I'm pretty good about remembering little trivia 518 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.000 or story. Yeah, like you know that you know there was this episode 519 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:42.000 of In Search of or in this region of this country. You know, 520 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:46.360 people, the indigenous people tell stories of this kind of thing or so I 521 00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:50.840 like pulling from that so I can say, I'm not saying this is one 522 00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:54.199 percent true or not. I'm not saying take this to the bank as proof 523 00:36:54.280 --> 00:37:01.000 positive of phenomena, paranormal phenomena or unexplain or whatever. Instead, you know, 524 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.119 let's put it into perspective. There's other people that's talked about this in 525 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.880 this region that makes it interesting to me. And I always think about the 526 00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:15.440 motivations of people, like because if you're appearing on these shows as cast, 527 00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.320 you're still probably not making a lot of mineam as we said before, and 528 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:21.920 as you do more, you get renewed, it gets a little bit better. 529 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:27.039 But if you're appearing on like a clip show or someone's licensing your YouTube 530 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:29.800 video or whatever, you're not getting rich and famous off of it. You're 531 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:34.599 not even getting in fifteen minutes of thing. So the motivation of someone to 532 00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:39.000 try to do that, I don't know that it's always like they're they're thinking 533 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.280 they're going to get anything, any grand spotlight out of that. Yeah, 534 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:46.400 what do you think is behind the motivation of hoax ors? Do you think 535 00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:51.119 it's just like like a Ray Wallace where the guy was a joker and he 536 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:54.960 liked doing pranks, or you think there's because or is it somebody trying to 537 00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.920 make money on it like some people do, or is it just mental illness? 538 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.000 Is trying to show the show that you can be wrong about? I 539 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.920 mean, who knows. What are your thoughts on hoaxing? Yeah, I 540 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:12.280 think that it's a combination of things. I think there are the people that 541 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.920 are just pranksters. I think there are the people that think this they'll be 542 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:23.159 able to show a Fiji mermaid and squeeze a couple of bucks out of folks 543 00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:28.519 and maybe that'll be enough for them, and it's never really enough for them, 544 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.079 because they always want more and they want to keep doing it, which 545 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:35.480 is what gets a lot of people caught actually, because you know, they 546 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.239 keep trying to go bigger and then eventually their house of cards falls down around 547 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:44.480 them. But I also think there is an element. Sometimes people do want 548 00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:51.599 attention for this thing. They want to be someone that has captured something magnificent. 549 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.559 It's not always to begin famous, but they want some sort of attention 550 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.760 off of it. And then I think there's the other element, and this 551 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:06.199 maybe is not necessarily hoaxters. This is people that just so desperately want to 552 00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:12.360 believe that what they have captured on film or whatever is real that you can't 553 00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:20.280 convince them otherwise, and it validates something some deep need for them, and 554 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.199 so they can't listen to any other reason. And then those are not intentional 555 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:28.960 hoaxters, though, yeah, it seems that a lot of people gain their 556 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.239 identity from doing this sort of thing, and I think having an identity in 557 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:35.239 general, it's probably a bad idea. That's just my own personal view. 558 00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:37.920 I don't even identify myself as a sasquash researcher. I just that's just what 559 00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:40.800 I do, you know. But I don't. I don't have a real 560 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:46.559 strong identity connected to that personally. That's just me though, because I figured 561 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:50.599 whenever I define myself, that means I'm not all these other things. And 562 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.440 I think that's very limiting, you know. But there is certain there's certainly 563 00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:59.320 that thing out there where maybe somebody got a piece of footage or they see 564 00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:01.800 a shape that a blob squatch sort of thing, and like, well, 565 00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:05.760 that's my claim to fame. That's what I did. That that's the deal 566 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:08.199 there, that that makes me who I am. And I kind of feel 567 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.559 for those people, you know, I think that, I mean, I 568 00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:15.239 think that's a good point. Yeah, it's And I consider myself very fortunate 569 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:22.280 to have done a lot of cool things with my job, and I come 570 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:30.840 from very humble beginnings and not not just the paranormal stuff, but just done 571 00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:35.079 a lot of cool nerdy stuff. I'm very grateful for these experiences and that 572 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:39.360 this has been my career, you know, outside of doing even the TV 573 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:43.239 stuff, it is still my career to talk to people to go on these 574 00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:49.599 kind of fun trips and adventures and whatnot. So I can definitely empathize with 575 00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:59.639 folks that they crave something of that for themselves and and maybe yeah, that 576 00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:02.559 experience of them seeing that blob squash or whatever. Yeah, it becomes a 577 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:08.800 part of their identity because it's it's it's like there's something missing for them in 578 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:14.119 their life. Yeah. But but to quote the great Muppet Doctor Too Doctor 579 00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:17.119 Teeth, there ain't nothing to it but to do it. Like everybody can 580 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:20.440 do this, you know what I mean. You don't have to have an 581 00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.199 accomplishment. You can actually just do this for fun and enjoy it as such 582 00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:28.159 like fishing or something like that. You know. M I always encourage people 583 00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.599 to get go out to the woods. It doesn't take people coming to the 584 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:32.039 museum. Can you take me out big footing? Absolutely not. I don't 585 00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:36.159 know you. I'm not going to take you up big footing. But at 586 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.840 the same time, what's stopping you from doing it? Now? You drive 587 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:39.920 on a road, You get out, you walk a road, you listen. 588 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.000 There's nothing there, there's nothing there that you can't do. Don't need 589 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:46.280 me for that. So hopefully people will take their own life into their own 590 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.320 hands, you know, so to speak. And yeah, being told that, 591 00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:52.679 like, yeah, you have the tools to be able to do this. 592 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.920 You can go out there and and engage with this stuff right now, 593 00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.159 you And and if you want to learn about these things, you know, 594 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:05.199 yes you have to be again, have some literacy to it to know what 595 00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.320 a good sources or not. But you have we all carry around these supercomputers 596 00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:12.880 in our pockets. You can start researching this stuff and reading about this stuff 597 00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:17.320 and get into it on your own. And I think that sometimes opens the 598 00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:23.800 door for people being manipulated because they want to be guided by someone of import 599 00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:30.039 and then they will listen to the wrong someone and then be manipulated or misled. 600 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.440 Yeah, without the literacy in the subject. I think Carl Sagan address 601 00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:37.039 this in one of his interviews without literacy in his case, with a science, 602 00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.159 but a literacy and well rank frankly, if you're not without literacy and 603 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:45.559 science that applies to this subject too, or the history of the subject and 604 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:49.920 whose shoulders were standing on a whatnot? You are opening yourself up to Charlatan's 605 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:53.719 and hucksters to take advantage of you and take you for a ride and for 606 00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:59.280 whatever end game they have in mind. Not you. Yeah, I mean 607 00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.360 there's a reason, like folks, you know, like a P. T. 608 00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:07.760 Barnum thrived. You know it's it's because you know, I mean, 609 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.159 he wasn't actually the one that said a sucker is born every minute, but 610 00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:16.039 it's been attributed to him and the sentiment is true. Well, you know, 611 00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:20.000 one of the things I'm not at all interested in, um because it 612 00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:22.039 scares the hell out of me, is like hauntings and demons stuff and all 613 00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.480 that jazz and um you're you're, you're part, you're one of your feet 614 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:29.760 is in that world as well. Because I've never seen your show twenty eight 615 00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:31.960 Days Haunted on Netflix. But um, it sounds like it's a it's a 616 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:35.519 it's a ghost show. Am I wrong? What's up with that show? 617 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:40.679 No? You're you're are right. It is. It's Netflix's first paranormal investigative 618 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:47.960 show. And the stick, the engine of this is that it's three separate 619 00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:55.280 teams of ghost hunters at three separate locations, embedded in those places for twenty 620 00:43:55.320 --> 00:44:00.840 eight days, and I serve as sort of the the driver of the car. 621 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:06.559 I operate as a host and walk the viewer through what we're seeing and 622 00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:14.480 offering takeaways and whatnot. And something that I really try to avoid is I 623 00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:19.280 hate being called a paranormal expert because I'm not. I'm a guy that's done 624 00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.039 a lot of work talking and writing and pontificating about it, but I'm not 625 00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:28.000 an expert on this unexplained thing. It's all fury based and hell, I 626 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.559 don't know what the hell of ghost even is, you know, I like, 627 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:34.880 it's all we're all just kind of literally in figuratively poking around on the 628 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:37.760 dark about that. But yeah, so but I talk about, like, 629 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:42.960 well, what we're seeing here is this team is doing this, and it's 630 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:47.679 interesting that they would comment on this because that aligns with the actual history of 631 00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:52.760 the location, which they should not know. That sort of thing. And 632 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:58.239 the show did did very well on Netflix, and I'm quite pleased about that. 633 00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:02.039 And I guess kind of like you, like, I don't. I'm 634 00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:07.559 proud of it, but I also don't want that to be the defining identity 635 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.039 of me. Of like you know, the ghost host. Even though it's 636 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:19.199 cool and I hope the show continues and everything, I'm super proud of it, 637 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.360 but I also want to be cautious that, you know, you don't 638 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:27.519 walk away and everybody's like, oh man, like what a that? That's 639 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:30.880 all that guy really is? You know where I'm going with that? Well, 640 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.599 yeah, yeah I can't. If I've posted on Facebook, I went 641 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.440 for a walk, and so how can we're not big footing? So well? 642 00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:42.199 Because I'm not just this flat character made up for you in your own 643 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.679 purposes. I'm actually a multidimensional human so to speak. You know, there's 644 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:46.480 a lot of things I do in my life that have nothing to do with 645 00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:50.719 big Foot, and I love that stuff because it gives me balance. I 646 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.920 totally understand. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not. We're all subjected to 647 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:57.760 this idea of clap, monkey clap, you know, at the right time 648 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.320 if you're in the media at all, because the public, some of them 649 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:06.880 don't realize that you're actually a human that does whatever, that does everything else 650 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.960 else that humans do instead of some superficial thing for their entertainment. Yeah, 651 00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:15.239 and there's just simply the fact kind of going back to what we were saying 652 00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:22.719 before about editing and everything that as much as you carefully try to construct a 653 00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:30.480 statement about a theory, it can sometimes be added to to look like you 654 00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:38.000 are speaking in terms of very definitive laws, almost about strange phenomena, which 655 00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:42.320 I am very much not doing, or I try to avoid doing it. 656 00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:45.559 So and then meanwhile, people will come up to me and be like, 657 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:47.639 yeah, but you said this thing was a fact, Like wow, that's 658 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:52.960 not exactly what I said, but but it is fun. It is cool, 659 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.800 and I mean, like, on like the topic of I do think 660 00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:00.119 there's strange stuff out there. I think there's just bizarre stuff out there that 661 00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:07.519 goes beyond our current understanding of this world and universe, and science is always 662 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:12.679 advancing and evolving, and will I think eventually explain some of this stuff. 663 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:17.079 On the Ghostie topic, Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and 664 00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:27.320 Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. Wait, what about Bobo 665 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.920 bo Bobo? What do you think about the GHOSTI side of things. I 666 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:36.079 think we've lost Bobo Bo Boa maybe might be out pin or something who knows. 667 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:43.480 Welcome to Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and occasionally, Bobo, I was 668 00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:46.760 a gout. It starts snowing here, dude, look about like the surf 669 00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:52.079 one to like, hey, Bobo, we have we have a guest on 670 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:58.360 Bobo can join us. I love this about your podcast that I'm I'm opening 671 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:00.599 up here, Bobo. I'm pontific Katy. I'm I'm giving you the deep 672 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:06.119 dive into my soul and my philosophies. And you're out there looking at the 673 00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:12.920 snow and the surf. Look a squirrel, a dog with a fuffy tail, 674 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:17.599 snow here in like ten or twelve years. Okay, fair, that's 675 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:25.239 that's totally a reasonable reason just neglect your cast. Pro Bo. Sorry, 676 00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:30.559 so I started, I was answered, I uh, it was need. 677 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:36.639 What was what was I talking about again? Nothing, don't worry about it, 678 00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:39.400 Bob's nothing of consequence, dans. Yeah, I thought I had. 679 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:45.760 I was convinced how a demon encounter one night? Then I uh, A 680 00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:51.760 couple of sciences have you read about, uh, lucid dreaming and night terrors 681 00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:52.719 and all that, And I'm like, oh, I guess that's what I 682 00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:58.360 had. You dip into that category. But but like you, you allow 683 00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.599 for the possibility of ghosts and demons. Oh yeah, I've seen a couple 684 00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:06.280 of guys I don't care about them. Yeah, yeah. I think that's 685 00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.679 one of the things about about this show that UM, because I'm very much 686 00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:14.639 Bubbo is very much more interested in the paranormal than I am in general. 687 00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:16.840 Although I've had paranormal things happen, I don't know. There's no other word 688 00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:20.079 that can describe it. You know, I've had some ghost things happen. 689 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.719 I don't and ghosts seems like a suitable word to slap on that experience, 690 00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:28.199 UM that I that I had, or those experiences that I've had. I've 691 00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:30.599 seen a couple of UFOs in my time. I just don't profess to be 692 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:35.440 um, you know, very knowledgeable in that stuff, and some of the 693 00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:37.239 stuff I just want to be left to let, like ghosts. Screw that, 694 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:40.000 man, I don't want I don't want the deal because once you what 695 00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:44.119 I find is that, at least with the bigfoot thing, I started becoming 696 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:46.679 interested in sasquatches, and then I found, just like everything else in life, 697 00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:50.440 once you start paying attention to it, you see you start seeing it 698 00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:53.960 everywhere, or not everywhere, but much more the bigfoot things come, you 699 00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.920 know, like a news article crosses your desk, you know, you run 700 00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.079 into a witness in the store. That kind of stuff. So bigfoot stuff 701 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.800 starts popping up everywhere once you start paying attention to it. That's the nature 702 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.960 of reality is from my experience, is that once you pay attention to something, 703 00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:10.079 more of that thing comes. You know, reality is very malleable in 704 00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:14.360 that way. And the last thing I need is more ghosts and demons in 705 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.480 my life. I need more bigfoot. Everyone does, well. I don't 706 00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:25.519 know that I have had a really significant experience like I and I want it 707 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:30.639 like that's that's the thing. I've experienced the other weird stuff, and sure 708 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:34.840 I'm open for more of it to keep happening. I don't feel like I 709 00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:40.800 have my solid bigfoot story and I'm I'm definitely all on board with it. 710 00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:47.440 I most certainly think these things are out there where I'm now. I'm in 711 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.079 New York City, but I grew up in Florida, and then I've traveled 712 00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:54.199 around a lot, and I was a boy scout, I camped a lot, 713 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:59.840 and I've camped a lot as an adult. And you know, I 714 00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.000 had those moments like when I was a kid, I at the moment when 715 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:07.920 I was camping hearing something very large outside and it probably was just a bear, 716 00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:13.239 but in my brain, like I woke up and I heard something moving 717 00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:19.000 around, and my brain that was used to hearing bears and whatnot out there, 718 00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.079 it was like, this is something different. But I didn't see anything. 719 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.760 I didn't see anything. I just heard something trumping trapesing around. And 720 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:34.840 then there was this other experience in Pennsylvania where just didn't really I don't know, 721 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.360 like I hate to say, like glowing eyes or whatever, but saw 722 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:44.760 like basically in the woods and everything quieted reel down or quieted down quite a 723 00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:49.920 bit. And then just basically saw this set of eyes in the woods. 724 00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:53.320 And I don't know that that was probably not Bigfoot, but I feel like 725 00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.639 I need my Bigfoot story. Ain't nothing to it, but to do it. 726 00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.960 As doctor Teeth says, man just start going out New York City. 727 00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:02.079 You're kind of, you know, poop out of luck there though, because 728 00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:05.639 there's not a lot going on there. I mean, the Catskills has a 729 00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:07.840 little bit if you know where to go, but not much. Um, 730 00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:13.519 but Jersey Jersey's really good. Actually that that's a hop skip of jump for 731 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:15.760 you. Yeah, And actually where I was in Pa was just over um 732 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:22.039 the Jersey border, and and certainly like even down in Florida growing up, 733 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:28.400 like before it was sort of more popular or in vogue. Like, um, 734 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:32.199 my dad is originally from Florida as well, and it come from come 735 00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:37.719 from some uh a redneck side of the family, some swamp folk almost in 736 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:43.440 Florida. Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, airboating type of people. 737 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:49.400 And I do recall hearing as a kid like stories of skunk ape and things 738 00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:52.159 being out there. Um, so at least that story was kind of those 739 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:58.639 tales were ingrained in me at an early age from that side of the family. 740 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.800 Well part of Florida, did you grow up in? I was largely 741 00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:07.320 in Orlando, Central Florida, But keep in mind that so when I was 742 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.239 growing up, it was it was more you know, just uh that the 743 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:15.239 mouse house, you know as theme park world and whatnot. And it's a 744 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:19.559 little bit more. Um, it's got a little bit better since then. 745 00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:24.920 But but my father and his family have grew up when it was a lot 746 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:30.239 of just um, you know, orange groves and a lot more wilderness and 747 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:35.239 um, when it was a little bit more wild and you know, we 748 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:42.000 definitely covered a lot of the state, um boat down in the Everglades area. 749 00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.400 Often the wooded area is kind of on the hum the west coast of 750 00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:52.599 Florida and things like that. So um, yeah, it was I was 751 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:55.159 fascinated by those stories as a kid. I guess that never really went away. 752 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:59.039 Yeah. I think Florida is one of the few places in the US 753 00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:05.039 that human can actually do any damage to the sasquatch population by paving essentially, 754 00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:08.119 by paving and producing, you know, developing the land essentially. That I 755 00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:10.639 think that Florida is one of these places that they might be we might be 756 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:16.559 isolating genetic populations and the burns pythons eating a bunch of their food source too. 757 00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:22.360 Yeah, sasquatches would eat the pythons, that's true. Yeah, Yeah, 758 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.960 just my thought. No, I you're most certainly right. I mean 759 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:31.199 that's I fear just how much the state is going to be paved over and 760 00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:37.280 how much biodiversity that is down there. I mean, sort of like Australia, 761 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:45.159 light and just constant development is wiping all of this biodiversity out, and 762 00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:50.480 that would include skuncape sasquatch down there. Well, we'll see what happens. 763 00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:52.440 We'll see what happens down there in Florida. So yeah, yeah, like 764 00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:58.679 we'll check back in like a year or so or twenty. Meanwhile, they're 765 00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:02.239 finding alligators up here in New York City and the ponds. Oh yeah, 766 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:06.119 I heard something about that. I heard about that must have been freezing for 767 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.960 that poor thing. Yeah. Yeah, and it's not the first time there's 768 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:15.360 actually it does pop up occasionally, but there was I think in the nineteen 769 00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:22.480 thirties, maybe even nineteen twenties, there was an actual legitimate origin to the 770 00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:27.960 alligators in the sewer urban legend, and it was I think up in Harlem. 771 00:55:28.199 --> 00:55:31.599 The this alligator kind of popped out of a sewer drain and then a 772 00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:35.519 bunch of kids like tried to wrangle it or whatever it was. It was 773 00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:39.320 not really a it was cold. This thing was definitely underfed. It was 774 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:46.679 not acclimated to that this kind of weather. But there wasn't But that was 775 00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:51.320 the origin to the gators in the sewer. But yeah, it's it's um 776 00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:54.719 something that happens periodically, and I think more than ever makes it to the 777 00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:59.280 news. Yeah, because people want these exotic pets and then they outgrow the 778 00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:01.039 little tanks they have them in and they put them in the sewer system or 779 00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:05.039 the ponds or whatever. And something like that happened in the Bay Area when 780 00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.440 I was living down there. It was Oakland or Berkeley or somewhere like that, 781 00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:09.920 that one of these things got loose in one of them. There was 782 00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:12.840 one in Portland if I remember right. No, no, no, that 783 00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:15.679 was down that was down in San Francisco. It was in San Francisco that 784 00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:17.960 one of these things was living for maybe a year or a few months before 785 00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:22.320 they actually captured it. Again, these poor animals that are subjected to environments 786 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:25.400 that they are not suited for, like the supers of New York for example. 787 00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:30.480 Yeah, but and you're right, like it's and that that extends, 788 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:35.000 you know, wild cats too, Like it's easy enough if you really start 789 00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:38.440 looking to find someone that's a little bit shady, that's willing to acquire one 790 00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:40.960 of these animals, and then, yeah, what are you gonna You're gonna 791 00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:44.320 keep it in a New York apartment until it gets too big and then just 792 00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:49.960 release it somewhere. But it's it's a shame. But I'm I'm not a 793 00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:54.880 cynical person, but I am sometimes raising my hands up in sometimes discussing certainly 794 00:56:55.239 --> 00:57:00.719 perplexed by humans in our behavior. Yeah, I'm not a big fan myself. 795 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.800 But but you know that some of my best friends are humans, honestly, 796 00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:07.360 but not all of my best friends are humans. I want to make 797 00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:13.719 that perfectly clear. I get you know. I gathered about you, Cliff, 798 00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:20.119 that you are not that you are very affable and likable with a dark 799 00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:23.679 side. Yea, I would not have pegged you as a as a people 800 00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:28.599 person. Well you know that. That's well, if you've spoken to me, 801 00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:30.840 You've had You've had a few conversations with me, and I get along 802 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:32.199 great with most with with the most people, I get along great, and 803 00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:36.719 I enjoy conversations. But um, at the same time, you know, 804 00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:38.400 I need a lot of a lone time and if Cliff doesn't get it gets 805 00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:40.719 a little weird. So and I didn't even know you were a Star Wars 806 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:44.239 nerd. Oh Yeah, yeah, I'm a total nerd, dude, I've 807 00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:46.239 I've got a Dungeons and Dragons campaign. I'm a huge nerd and very in 808 00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:52.079 every way. Every way. Um, Bigfoot is just one aspect. Um. 809 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:58.760 Well, that is me being humble. Well, I I I will 810 00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:01.960 say that I to this interview I'm supposed to supposed to see the new dungeon 811 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:07.480 in the Dragons movie. I just didn interview with Chris Pine about it because 812 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:12.760 he's in that new the live action movie that's coming out. So I'm I'm 813 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:15.360 less of a D and D nerd, but I love it like I do 814 00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:20.559 love it. But I'm definitely a total Star Wars nerd. I love Star 815 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:24.280 Trek as well, but Star Wars is it was sort of the thing that 816 00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:30.880 I glombed onto super early on. Oh yeah, actually that I literally have 817 00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:34.760 that as a question on my page. I've took a bunch of notes, 818 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:37.559 and I'm very proud to say, by the way, I crossed off three 819 00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:42.599 things on a full page of notes, you know, so I overprepared, 820 00:58:42.679 --> 00:58:45.920 which is nice. Then one of the questions was here, here's a question 821 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:47.920 Star Wars or Star Trek. That was literally one of the questions I have 822 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.119 written down for you. I think you like both, but it's sort of 823 00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:55.760 like Elvis versus the Beatles, or yeah, Elvis versus Beetles. It's you 824 00:58:55.960 --> 00:59:02.840 ultimately have to not have to, but ultimately I think your passions skew more 825 00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:07.519 towards one or the other. And for me, yeah, it was I 826 00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:13.559 think sort of the magic and the fantasy of Star Wars just connected with me 827 00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:20.559 early on Trek. I love because it is in its best form, can 828 00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:28.440 be a commentary on what humanity can strive for and fail sometimes a lot of 829 00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:31.119 times, but what we can strive for. But I like the magic and 830 00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:36.880 the fantasy of Star Wars and also Elvis. Yeah, well, I think 831 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:39.480 that's a good segue to why don't we end this part of the conversation. 832 00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:43.760 We can continue this in the member section and get into some of the nerdy 833 00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:46.559 nitty gritty as far as various media goes, because I think the Star Wars 834 00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:52.119 or Star Trek is a good jumping off point for that, and also perhaps 835 00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:57.000 some personal experiences because you you mentioned that you don't have the big Foot feather 836 00:59:57.079 --> 00:59:59.440 in your cap yet, but I'm sure you have some others, and I 837 00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:01.880 think our listen would love to hear about some of that stuff. So if 838 01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:05.679 you can stick around for a member section, we'd really appreciate it. But 839 01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:08.159 before we go, what would you like our listeners to know about, like 840 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:13.320 any appearances or gigs or anything that you want them to perhaps tune into or 841 01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:15.360 show up for, or anything like that. Yeah, first off, thanks 842 01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:19.760 thanks for having me. I'm glad we had this conversation and happy to stick 843 01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:23.039 around for the members chat as well in the meantime. Yeah, look, 844 01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:27.079 you can always check out twenty eight Days Hunted on Netflix. Please do that. 845 01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:30.280 That support is appreciated. In Paranormal Cad on Camera on Travel Channel and 846 01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:35.960 Discovery Plus, it's always on. They're always marathon in it meet personally like 847 01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:40.360 I do this Talking Strange podcast and live stream show that's part of the Denny 848 01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:47.280 Geek Network, and that is something that I really love doing because I get 849 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:52.760 to interview people, and I get to interview people about weird stuff, even 850 01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:55.119 though though they may not be known for their weird stuff, like Reese Darby 851 01:00:55.239 --> 01:01:00.440 from Fly to the Concords and Jumanji and Our Flag and Stath talking about UFOs 852 01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:08.079 and cryptids and talking to this actor David dust Malschian or Dana Gould the comedian 853 01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:14.800 and finding these entry points to talk about strangeness. So check that out Talking 854 01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:19.440 Strange podcast in live stream show. And that also helps keep keep the lights 855 01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:22.199 on for me, So I would appreciate that, and then otherwise hit me 856 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:28.400 up on social media say hi, just at Aaron Sager's across the board social 857 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:31.800 media. Yes, I do do it. It's it's it's horrible and all 858 01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:36.599 consuming, but it's it's part of the beast, something I have to do. 859 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:38.400 All right. Well, thank you very much Aaron for coming on the 860 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.639 show. Really really appreciate it. People out there in a big fan of 861 01:01:42.679 --> 01:01:45.719 beyond Land, thank you for listening, really appreciate it. We're going to 862 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:49.159 continue this conversation over in the members section, so join us over there if 863 01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:51.280 you can, and if you're not a member yet, consider it. You 864 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:53.679 get about an under forty minutes forty five minutes of content every single week, 865 01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:58.639 sometimes even more than that for the low low price of just five bucks a 866 01:01:58.719 --> 01:02:01.199 month, and that's that's a year without the tip. Nowadays you can afford 867 01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:05.840 that, and our buzz last all week long. So anyway, maybe you 868 01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:07.880 want to be a member, and you can join our membership in the wee 869 01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:12.840 click the thing in the show notes below that'll bring you right there. I'm 870 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:15.440 pretty confident of that, so thank you very much, Aaron and Bobo. 871 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:19.199 Why don't you take us out all right? Thanks thanks to Aaron Sayer for 872 01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:22.840 joining us this week, and thanks for listening and keep those reviews and five 873 01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:28.840 star ratings coming our way. I always appreciate that. So until next week, 874 01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:37.199 y'all keep us squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot 875 01:02:37.239 --> 01:02:40.679 and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us 876 01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:45.199 on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and 877 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:51.400 follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find 878 01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:55.480 us on Twitter at Bigfoot Beyond That's an End in the Middle, and tweet 879 01:02:55.599 --> 01:03:00.800 us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot, End Beyond.