1
00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:07,639
Lying about John Philipponis. The whole
chat is laughing at you. I don't

2
00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:10,640
have to tell you my position.
You just made a fool of yourself,

3
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,160
claiming that he knows, oh know
what John Philippon has taught what. I

4
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,239
don't have to tell you. I
don't have to tell you. I don't

5
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,039
have to tell you. Say you
see why I get like this with these

6
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:29,160
people. I cannot stand these slimy
Roman Catholics. They drive me so insane.

7
00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:33,799
There are such freaking liars, dude, and they all breathe the same

8
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:39,280
spirit. They come on here talking
about how, oh my god, I've

9
00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:46,119
got him. I gotta gotcha.
I got him with his stupid ass gotcha.

10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,159
And I answered his question twenty times
saying I don't accept the question's premise,

11
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:59,799
and the chat that look, John
Philipponis is the tritheist who used a

12
00:00:59,799 --> 00:01:04,920
strict Aristotilian definition of hypostasis. Okay, and when he did that, what

13
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:11,799
that means is that there are three
substances in the triad that led him to

14
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,480
being condemned as a tritheist. So
when he asked me, do I accept

15
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:21,200
the Aristotilian definitions of hypostasis? I
said no, and I said, do

16
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,599
you accept John Philipponis? I know
about John Philiponis? Okay, oh do

17
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,040
you Okay? What was his position? All he had to do was say

18
00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:38,680
try theism? But he lied he
didn't know. So this is all the

19
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,239
Roman Catholics have, is this scumbaggery, slimy approach where they try to play

20
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:51,200
gotcha's no, I'm not again.
As soon as he said, do you

21
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:57,400
not accept Aristotilian definition of hypostasis?
Uh no, we don't because that reductionist

22
00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:01,920
move is what John Philipponis did.
We're not wedded to either Aristotle or Plato,

23
00:02:02,519 --> 00:02:09,680
or Plutinus or Porphyrey. All of
them are utilized by the Church fathers.

24
00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:13,800
And you notice he wouldn't he All
he wanted to do was try to

25
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,960
play someth dumb. By the way, where I was gonna go, I

26
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,719
wish he had stuck. He had
stuck with it is that I'm just gonna

27
00:02:19,719 --> 00:02:23,800
cut the whole scholastic thing apart by
going to the root of it and talk

28
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:30,560
about do you can you tell me
if the parapateetic axiom is true? That's

29
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,039
where I wanted to go. And
he would have folded right away because you

30
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,280
can't demonstrate or prove the parapateetic axiom
to be true because it's something that's not

31
00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:43,599
found in sense data. Now,
remember the parapateetic axiom, which is the

32
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,479
starting point for these tomistic goobers,
is that there's nothing in the intellect that's

33
00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:52,599
not first in sense data. Oh
really, is that in sense data?

34
00:02:52,759 --> 00:02:53,960
No, it's not. Oh but
then you notice he says, oh,

35
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,199
I'm not a Roman calthly, I'm
not a toomist. So he wouldn't even

36
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,400
say what he is. And by
the way, we always boot people who

37
00:03:00,439 --> 00:03:08,800
won't defend a position because it's dishonest. So now get out of here with

38
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:15,800
your gay gotcha rada like that,
like that low tier gotcha is gonna work.

39
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:22,719
Hij Well, I got I got
to talk really fast. Yeah.

40
00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:31,599
So I was thinking about one of
the debates I heard with Muslims about Asha

41
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:38,439
and how they always bring up,
you know that at that time it was

42
00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:46,400
common that people were engaged to six
years old and stuff, and that that's

43
00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:51,840
not the same today. But and
also they claim that yeah, Aisha,

44
00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:57,120
that at that time she was much
more mature, and that nine year old

45
00:03:57,199 --> 00:04:00,599
girls they could you know, run
a household and stuff. Okay, what's

46
00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:05,159
the question. Yeah, So the
thing I was thinking about, I mean,

47
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:11,599
it's it's just that today, I
mean, there's lots of countries where

48
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,680
are still living in that age,
right. It's similar to those type of

49
00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:27,879
rural type of countries that still you
know, have their kids working at the

50
00:04:27,959 --> 00:04:32,439
fountatu. So my question is would
it be acceptable for them to you know,

51
00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:42,519
travel to move there and use the
same logic and you know, engaged,

52
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,439
be engaged to a nine ye old
there who's much more mature than,

53
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,639
for example, an angel here in
the West. We're gonna move on because

54
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,920
it's not really the topic. I
know it's realized as long, but I

55
00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:55,959
mean, I just think it's reprehensible
all of that kind of stuff. So

56
00:04:56,199 --> 00:05:01,720
I don't know what you're saying about
people moving where jib reel. Oh,

57
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,199
I wish that dude has stayed on. And but then he wasn't even a

58
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:11,160
romanchalic or Thomas. I like how
he started out with like some oh,

59
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,519
you are not familiar with this paudio
Scholastic dictionary, Like like, okay,

60
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,600
yeah, no, I'm not familiar
with your damn PDF. That's a stupid

61
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,519
man. I knew right then,
right then, I knew this was problem.

62
00:05:21,519 --> 00:05:25,480
This is trouble. What's up,
man, I'm all fired up?

63
00:05:25,519 --> 00:05:31,279
Man? Oh oh, all right, be careful, it's here. So

64
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:39,319
I wanted to talk about the the
h I guys, okay and okay,

65
00:05:41,079 --> 00:05:48,000
I met Yeah Coop today. I
met Yeah Coop and he was an uber

66
00:05:48,079 --> 00:05:54,079
driver and his picture even shows him
with the fez. Now, I'm wondering

67
00:05:54,160 --> 00:06:01,360
if you have heard of the Moorish
Science Temple. No, but I'm not

68
00:06:01,399 --> 00:06:08,920
surprised. I'm sure there's gonna be
a plethora of cults exploding related to the

69
00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:12,759
Hebrew Roots movement, black Heber Israelite
movement, and I'm sure we'll overlap with

70
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,439
Islam as well. In fact,
Nation of Islam already. Kind of is

71
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:25,800
that right, n Oi? Kind
of is an overlap between this sort of

72
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,000
space mythology is like Sci Fi for
erkle Arkles, you know what I'm saying,

73
00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:34,480
where all the white people are the
devils? Hey, Janet, could

74
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:39,839
you made me a double shot?
That Skittles black man got me fired up?

75
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:51,399
Uh? Bourock Hey Ja? How
you doing? Brother? What's up?

76
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,000
And literally, what I just want
to say is just touch up on

77
00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,639
what you just said. Myself of
a Muslim myself and literally is your absolutely

78
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,800
right with that? You know,
it's for the fact that these abraham of

79
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:09,160
religions that's been around for the longest
time, and every each one of them,

80
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,279
you're able to find faults in them. In each every one of them,

81
00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:16,560
there is some type of moral or
irregular practice that happens in them.

82
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,839
My biggest thing for the people that
don't see that or do see it,

83
00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:27,199
is just be mindful for the fact
that every one of us as humans have

84
00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:30,720
some kind of an irregular practice,
whether it's a religion, whether whatever we

85
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,680
do in our lives. I just
feel the belief that in order for us

86
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,319
to accept one another, we should
be able to get over those irregularities and

87
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,120
not talking about the really bad shit. You know, those things well hold

88
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,680
on. So I think there's a
difference so between people and the religion acting

89
00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:50,879
in an immoral way versus versus the
religion teaching that it's okay to do those

90
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:56,360
things. That's agreed, hundred percent
agreed. And I sometimes feel like a

91
00:07:56,399 --> 00:07:59,319
lot of especially Muslim scholars, even
myself being a Muslims, some of these

92
00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:03,439
Muslim scholars and even skulls of other
religions tend to push that to the extreme

93
00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:07,199
or forget the human factor. And
that's really what I want to touch on.

94
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,639
So what do you find convincing about
Islam? What I find convincing about

95
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,920
Islam is the clear cut message that
I'm able to proceed from reading that Holy

96
00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:22,759
Book and that you know that just
only applies to me and not other people.

97
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,519
And if it does, no great, But in my honest opinion and

98
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,480
drough the time that I have been
a Muslim, those messages apply to me

99
00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,000
in a sense. It's clearcut and
I don't see contradictions. But of course

100
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,320
if people were to break it down
and look at it, there could be

101
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,919
many contradictions. But it has put
some kind of a guidance in my life

102
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,120
where has gotten me out of jail
and has gotten me out of situations where

103
00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:46,240
I could have been dead or be
stuck brotten in prison. Well, one

104
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,039
thing I would say about the big
level of contradictions is you should watch my

105
00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:56,960
debate with Daniel Hakikachu. We have
a pretty in depth debate about that specific

106
00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:01,240
topic. So I would invite you
to take a look at that over on

107
00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:09,720
YouTube here. It's let's see Daniel
Jay dire debate, because that whole debate

108
00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:18,559
is about contradictions and continuity between who
actually follows the prophets. Okay, so

109
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:24,919
is it Islam with its unitarian ideology
that's consistent with the prophets and the prior

110
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:31,600
revelation, or is it Christianity?
So I would encourage you to take a

111
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,440
look at that. I'm not going
to rehearse all of that today. Gary

112
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:54,279
Winthorpe puts up. I gotta unmute
Gary, Gary, what's up? Man?

113
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,120
Let me see if I missed us. We got a bunch of super

114
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,720
chats that came in. So Gary, weigin here you so you have to

115
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,559
turn your mic on and come back
in or something. If you come back,

116
00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:16,240
I'll go to you ignatious three dollars? Do Protestants realize that classical Protestantism

117
00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:20,960
bowed to the Ottoman Empire for its
survival against Rome. Protestants and Muslims bonded

118
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,519
over the econic class beliefs. Orthodoxy
will never bounce into any entity other than

119
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,679
Christ. And that's a good historical
point there. I appreciate that. Acu

120
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,600
laras three dollars, we debate digital
nosis. I've forgotten about that, dude.

121
00:10:35,919 --> 00:10:39,559
Sincere hypocrite three dollars thirty three cents. I'm am I wrong in thinking

122
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,720
that Catholics and Protestants are two sides
of the same coin. This is a

123
00:10:41,799 --> 00:10:48,519
very argument that Saint Justin Popovitch makes
that the Pope was the first Protestant,

124
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,679
so this is literally his argument in
life in Christ. Both of them in

125
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:58,120
practice pick and choose what they want. They even call acumunus heretics, like

126
00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:03,000
in Astorias r Amari a bishop.
Yeah, exactly, it's very telling.

127
00:11:03,039 --> 00:11:07,159
I think that both Rome and many
Protestants and especially Calvinists are big fans explicitly

128
00:11:07,879 --> 00:11:11,279
nowadays of Nestorius. So what does
that tell you, lawkeeper? Five dollars?

129
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,039
What does it mean to be great
under grace and not law? Is

130
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,600
that about Jewish ceremonial law. It
is about both. On the one hand,

131
00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,879
that we're no longer under the restrictions
of the ceremonial law. In other

132
00:11:24,879 --> 00:11:30,039
words, that a gentile doesn't have
to become a Jew to be saved or

133
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,720
to be righteous. That's the decision
of Acts fifteen, going back to how

134
00:11:33,799 --> 00:11:37,799
Noah was made righteous in the Covenant
with Noah. So the reasoning in the

135
00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:39,720
logic is, well, we don't
have to expect anything more than what was

136
00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:48,360
expected of Noah since the Covenant is
now being opened to the Gentiles. And

137
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,519
I think also there's other connotations of
the notion of being under grace and not

138
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:58,279
under law, in the sense of
deification and the sense of empowerment via the

139
00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:01,360
Holy Spirit, which is not to
say that Testament saints didn't have that,

140
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,799
but post Pentecost we think of this
in a much greater power and greater degree.

141
00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:11,000
And that's why Paul describes it sometimes
as from death to life, but

142
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,000
also in terms of At times Paul
uses the terminology of lesser to greater.

143
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,240
So they're just different analogies to describe
the pre Pentecost life of God's people versus

144
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:26,679
the post Pentecost life. Orthoclips five
dollars. You would have a good time

145
00:12:26,759 --> 00:12:31,320
chatting with Adam Patrick from Age of
Information podcast. Okay, I'm not familiar

146
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,759
with him. I'll have to check
him out. He's Orthodox, he talks

147
00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:37,799
about a lot of what you do. He doesn't put out a whole lot

148
00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:39,240
of content. It's sporadic. Yeah, I'll have to I'll have to look

149
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,679
at him. Sounds good. Cholo
Solo Mexicano. What's up, man,

150
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:50,039
haven't seen you in a while.
Welcome back ten dollars. Well, you

151
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,480
cover the fact that Solos shaved their
heads. It's an attack on masculine appearance.

152
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,879
Uh interesting, I never thought about
that. Well, everybody says that

153
00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:05,840
my long hair is feminine, so
I don't know. I really think that

154
00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:11,840
the length of hair is culturally relative. I really do, because I mean,

155
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,799
is this down to here long?
I mean, is here long?

156
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:22,559
I mean what exactly counts as long? Anyway, It's different for different cultures.

157
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,039
And I think when Paul mentions that
he specifically says and he talks about

158
00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:31,320
effeminacy, he's not specific specifying the
length of the hair. And we know

159
00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:35,240
that the length of the hair itself
can't be the issue because the Nazarites didn't

160
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,519
cut their hair. So I just
kind of think this is a little overblown.

161
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,240
But haters are going to keep trying
to flex on me. What about

162
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:46,519
Saint Sampson. Actually Sampson, as
far as I can tell, is a

163
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:52,480
saint so and I heard one famous
Orthodox priest who apparently wasn't aware of that,

164
00:13:52,320 --> 00:14:01,559
a prominent one. But but I
don't know about I never I guess

165
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,480
you're kids over joking or being serious. I don't know about Tolo shaving their

166
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:07,720
head. I don't know Marinka's man
a dollar. I saw you answer my

167
00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,399
question earlier. I'm an inquirer who
wants to be a catechuman. I do

168
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,480
believe in iconography and understand the theological
and typeological side of it. I'm just

169
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,399
wondering about the historical claim. Well, but see, my argument wasn't just

170
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,960
a typology claim. No, no, I'm saying that the Church in its

171
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,879
earliest days has an apostolic liturgy derived
from the liturgy that already existed in the

172
00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:35,440
temple and synagogue system. So I
wasn't saying there's a typology from the Temple

173
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,120
to the Church in a mystical sense. No, no, I'm saying that

174
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:46,159
actual liturgical celebrations are carried over.
That's what I was saying, and that

175
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:52,000
includes things like visual imagery, because
the temple had that. Okay, do

176
00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:56,519
you understand that? Go read where
in Kings the temple's built. It's not

177
00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:01,879
iconoclastic. I don't understand where people
think that, like Judaism is iconic,

178
00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:09,960
classic is not. Judaism is not
iconoclastic. I'm talking about Hebrew theology of

179
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,679
the Old Testament, like we talked
about at the beginning of this discussion tonight,

180
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,559
when we're talking about who's a Jew, what's a Jew and all the

181
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:31,360
stuff that we're starting this discussion with
Mark, what's up? Hello, Hey,

182
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:39,559
what's going on? Yeah? I
was gonna ask this. I've got

183
00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:46,080
two questions of that sort, uh
huh. So the first one is,

184
00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:54,000
I know that I'm just curious on
what the general belief that Muslims have about

185
00:15:54,679 --> 00:16:00,480
the nature of God, because I
know that they have one of the is

186
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:08,000
similar to the papist belief that the
attributes of God is one and united with

187
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:15,320
God's essence, but most of the
Sunnis don't believe that, so they believe

188
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,759
in a real distinction between Allah and
his attributes, right right, So yeah,

189
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,000
that's what I'm curious about. What
what is like the summary of what

190
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,639
Muslims in general? I guess,
well, there's not a summary because all

191
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:34,399
of the different akidas and schools debate
this and have forever, so all right,

192
00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:38,399
right, I see, So I
guess it's like sort of similar to

193
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:45,759
like us, and we have Protestants
and have different views. So yeah,

194
00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:52,159
except that the analogy is better made
to think about the way Protestants are with

195
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,440
all of their different sects. It's
more like that than it is to say

196
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,960
that Islam is like Roman Catholics versus
Protestant versus Orthodox. No, no,

197
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,240
no, it's more like all these
different types of sex who claim to believe

198
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,279
in the unity of Allah, and
then they're like going at it over what

199
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:15,039
that means. So they're not it's
not there's not they're not united except that

200
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,839
they say, well, we believe
all as one, and then it's like

201
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,359
infinite debates about what that means.
So you could go watch the debate that

202
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:30,640
we did with Ozra Rashid, Shabiri, Lei and Jake too. They get

203
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:37,119
into all that, right, right, Okay, uh, I think I

204
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:42,880
forgot my my second question, so
uh yeah, that's fine. That's all.

205
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:48,240
It's all good. Thank you,
Matt. What's up dude. By

206
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,640
the way, if you want to
support the stream, you can do so

207
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:55,079
via the super chat function. Super
chats are done through stream Labs. Thank

208
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,319
you to slow Boy for putting that
link there. You can also call in

209
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,759
via the link in the show description. So anybody talking a bunch of smack

210
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:07,279
in the chat if you don't come
debate. We don't really respect you.

211
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:18,920
What's up, man, Matt?
What's up? Oh? Okay? Uh,

212
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,599
thanks for doing the screen. It's
my first all right, you're roboting.

213
00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:32,680
What what's what's ther question? Mm
hmmm, Hey, I wanted to

214
00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:37,680
know you might disagree just fine,
which is a debate. But is your

215
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:52,079
opinion on the uh modern day Jews
being descendants of the Kazars. I think

216
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,839
that some of them probably are,
but I don't know that we would necessarily

217
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:59,920
have to say that all of them
are. But I don't have any heard

218
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:08,359
opinion on that. Slappy Lopez,
Okay, can you hear me? What's

219
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,960
up? Okay? So I just
had a question about one of the things

220
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,559
when you were speaking with the Black
hebrew Is Relights, when he spoke about

221
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,000
how the version that they have of
the King James is older, and he

222
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:25,519
said that that was a fallacy.
Yeah, if he was trying to argue

223
00:19:25,519 --> 00:19:32,160
that the texts are true because the
King James is using older but in fact,

224
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,960
the Septuagin is older than what we
know of as the modern masoretic text

225
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,039
anyway, so it's going to fail
on multiple levels. Okay, that was

226
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,960
kind of my question. I was
assuming I had assumed I'm new to Orthodoxy,

227
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,960
but I had assumed that the septuagen
was in fact older than the Masoretic

228
00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:53,720
text. But then at least I
guess another question. But I was just

229
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:56,000
making the po I just wanted to
show that he didn't even know what a

230
00:19:56,039 --> 00:19:59,680
fallacy was. That was the old
point. Okay, that makes sense,

231
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,519
Okay, And then I have a
buddy who's looking into it. Seems to

232
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:10,079
be more gnostic, I guess,
But it's this whole cabal tree of life

233
00:20:10,279 --> 00:20:15,400
type thing, and he's trying to
say that it is outside of religion,

234
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:22,240
but it's I guess, some filing
cabinet. But to me, as an

235
00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:26,880
Orthodox person, it doesn't make sense
that something is outside of religion. And

236
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,480
he's somebody who introduced me to Orthodoxy, so he has some ideas of these

237
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,000
things. So it's hard for me
to get well, I mean, you

238
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:37,160
could say that the tree of life, you know, he'll probably say something

239
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,039
like, well, look here it
is. It's Drazzo amongst the you know,

240
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,640
Odnus or whatever, and here's the
neo Platonists talking about, you know,

241
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:48,960
these emanations. And so it's just
people kind of trying to find a

242
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:55,799
superstructure to classify God and his attributes
or his energies, or his relations or

243
00:20:55,839 --> 00:21:00,640
whatever. But the fact that there's
commonalities doesn't necessarily mean that this is not

244
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:10,720
from religion. And Cabbalism is Jewish
mystics utilizing neoplatonism. That's what the foremost

245
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:15,000
Cabbalist scholar, Gersam Sholm says,
so of the last century. Dan's good

246
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,920
question, though, Dan, Sam, what's up? So? Look to

247
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,839
people in the chat over here on
YouTube. All you gotta do is call

248
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,079
in on Twitter. So like,
how do I call it? It's Twitter?

249
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,680
It's in the show description. So
well, I'm sorry if you don't

250
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,359
have a Twitter. It's not my
fault. What's up, Dan? Hi?

251
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,960
How you doing? Good man?
What's up? So? I'm a

252
00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:42,480
very young man. I've been going
to a Pentecostal church for a very long

253
00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:48,240
time, pretty much my whole life, and very recently I've just been starting

254
00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:52,920
to question a whole lot of this
Reformation Protestant ideals right and talking to my

255
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,759
friends, I've kind of asked their
opinion on it, and they give me

256
00:21:55,839 --> 00:22:02,559
some very questionable justifications as to why
the information was good. And I'd like

257
00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:10,359
to swing those by you if you
don't mind why the Reformation was good or

258
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,240
why it's a correct Christianity. I
guess you could say, yeah, I

259
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,920
don't care. By the way,
to the Muslim in the Chat balloon,

260
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:21,599
balloon Muslim, if you're not going
to come to Bay, then what like

261
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,799
nobody cares about your spam in the
Chat? Okay, go ahead, Dan,

262
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,119
all right. So one of the
things that they would say is stuff

263
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,839
like, oh, well, why
should we uh that we have a right?

264
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,039
Well that they say we have a
right to private interpretation, that we

265
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:38,480
cannot place our trust in human and
other human beings or a body of human

266
00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:41,440
beings. So well, who where
does this right? Where's this right come

267
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,079
from? And who granted it?
I mean, that's exactly the question I

268
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:48,000
asked. And they say, well, you know, it's just that we

269
00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:53,359
can't trust these these people to infallibly
you know the scriptures, And I want

270
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,440
to ask, well, do you
trust them? Do you trust them to

271
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,319
put the books together? I mean, that's exactly what I told them,

272
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,920
and they would say no, no, No, God God worked his infallible

273
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,279
authority worked through the fallible Church,
which I've heard a thousand times. No,

274
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:14,000
that's a contradiction, And how would
you respawn to that argument if they

275
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:15,079
say, oh, no, it's
different. It's like the authority of a

276
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:21,119
priest. I'm sure you've heard that
a million times. What do you mean

277
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,839
it's the authority of a priest.
I don't understand that response. I mean

278
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,200
to say that the church is fallible
and God infallibly worked through it is a

279
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,839
contradiction. So what does the priests
have to do with that? Oh,

280
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,519
well, that would compare the authority
of the church as a whole to,

281
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,039
for example, like a priest.
Like for example, what I when I

282
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:44,920
mentioned there are some versus in the
Bible that says where where Paul was preaching,

283
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:45,799
and he said, oh, this
is so the the Word of God

284
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,720
passed down this oral and written tradition
to Timothy. Well he said that to

285
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,920
Timothy. I mentioned that to them, and they said, oh no,

286
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:56,119
no, no, that's just that's
like a preacher, right, like a

287
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,079
modern day preacher. Well, the
promise is, the promise is not to

288
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,039
any individual that they're the gates of
hell or that they're the rock. That

289
00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:07,759
the gates of Hell would not prevail
against the promises to the entire collective church.

290
00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:12,880
So to say that there's an equivalence
between the collective church and the fallibility

291
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:19,759
of an individual priest is a false
analogy. And this is kind of related.

292
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:23,759
How can you eleverate more on the
difference between like this existential authority and

293
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,559
normative authority. I've heard you say
that saying a few times before, and

294
00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:30,200
I just want to see if you
could delibriate on that. Yeah, So

295
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:40,799
having a body of people bind people
to a decision is a different question from

296
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,039
how do I know what church is? Right? Okay, I see,

297
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:48,440
I see, all right, Well
that is all, thank you. Yeah.

298
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,960
So basically, in history, either
Jesus set up a people in history

299
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,279
that have authority or he didn't.
I mean it comes down to that.

300
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:59,759
That's a different question from how do
I as an individual know what the right

301
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,039
churches? So they're related, but
they're two different questions, you see.

302
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,400
So yeah, good questions. And
we've covered that a lot. We've done

303
00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:15,160
probably thirty or forty live streams where
we've gone into detail about that. Let's

304
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:32,200
see, somebody's been waiting for a
long time. Schwan schwas hi Jay,

305
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,920
Hello, Hey, Yeah, so
I spoke to you last night. I

306
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:45,119
was the guy who asked you.
If so, if if God only creates

307
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:52,880
good, then is evil therefore an
independent Huh that's but that's that's not the

308
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,279
nice topics. I'm not trying to
be mean, but we have there.

309
00:25:56,599 --> 00:26:03,680
The topics are listed as Protestants,
keeper Israelite, Muslim arian as in Joe's

310
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,200
Witness. So if it's not on
that topic, I told you guys at

311
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:22,279
the very beginning, I'm moving on
right away. Nicholas, what's up you

312
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:25,200
got? I'mia man, hey man, can you hear me? Yes,

313
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,160
sir, awesome, Hey, I
got a question. I am an inquirer

314
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:36,880
at my Orthodox church here in Louisville, Kentucky. And I saw your I

315
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,519
think you did the space on it
the other day, and you were talking

316
00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:42,880
about the I forget the name of
the document. You were talking about,

317
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,359
the G eighty document, and then
the other document that just came out,

318
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,799
Alexander Document Alexandra. Yes. And
I grew up Protestant, I grew up

319
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:59,599
specifically charismatic, and so anyways,
I have been making a move to Orthodoxy

320
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,039
for over the past probably eight months. Anyways, that what I was gonna

321
00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:10,680
what I was gonna ask is if
those or so like those documents point out

322
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:18,599
that the UH that the uh basically
Roman Catholicism is, you know, it's

323
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:25,599
admitting that it's been wrong. How
is like they're not much of much of

324
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,079
an uproar or maybe I'm just not
aware? Right, So they don't care.

325
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:30,200
They just say right, they ignore
it. I'm not trying to be

326
00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:34,000
rude, but you're always welcome to
call back. In today's topics are not

327
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,319
Catholicism or atheism. It's Protestants,
Black Hei, Israelites, Arians, Muslims,

328
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,599
Joe's Witnesses, et cetera. Now
to answer your question, they handwave.

329
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:51,000
They don't care. So there have
been a long history of admissions contradictions,

330
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,519
and the Roman Catholics just handwaven.
I don't care. They'll say it's

331
00:27:56,519 --> 00:28:00,400
not infallible, as if that has
anything to do with whether or not Francis

332
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:07,240
is contradicting the established Vatican One tradition. They don't care. So that's that's

333
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:18,440
the answer, Soaring Blades, what's
up? Do we have any defenders of

334
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:25,079
Islam, of Black huber Isolites,
of Job's Witnesses, Arians, Muslims,

335
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:40,119
Protestant Evangelical Mormons. Go ahead,
man, what's up you? I'mute?

336
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:47,799
Are you there, you're gonna turn
your permissions on. Man, there's no

337
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,880
sound. Dude, Cyprian twenty dollars
YouTube recommend to me a dumb channel called

338
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,319
Trinity Busters. Well, yeah,
if it's named that, it's gonna be

339
00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:00,640
stupid. They put out a public
debate request for anybody who show them the

340
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:07,680
Trinity Look, I don't I'm not
going to go on every small channel because

341
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:15,440
it just gives a bunch of attention
to attention Starred Goober's uh so. And

342
00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:18,599
by the way, we've already done
countless defenses of the Trinity videos. Kevin

343
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:34,200
Sujith. Where I really wanted to
go with that Skittles black dude trying to

344
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,200
pretend to be a Thomas was I
was gonna say, what's the self evident

345
00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:44,960
definition of perfection? How we know
that that's the case. None of these

346
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,319
Thomas scholastic people, they're gonna melt
as soon as you go to epistemology.

347
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:52,880
That's where I really want to go
with these people, because they're gonna melt

348
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,200
right away. But they don't.
They don't want to do that. What's

349
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:03,400
up, Kevin? I just wanted
to ask about liturgy and the worship within

350
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,720
the church. So I've had a
reputation from process and saying, yeah,

351
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,759
the early Church had liturgical worship,
but we don't need to have only modern

352
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:17,480
century How would you how would you
refute that people think or a patristic tradition?

353
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:22,039
Yes, wait, so I mean
that's just I mean, yeah,

354
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:30,240
I'm super low tier like so the
apostles have the authority to establish liturgical worship,

355
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,319
but we don't need that anymore in
modernity. I just think that's I

356
00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:37,000
mean that itself is self refuting,
and then you have to refute. You

357
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:44,559
don't have to refute that. Uh
Favian Pimentel, that's a that's a name

358
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:55,720
right there. Yeah, uh huh
uh as an evan agelicqua, I just

359
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,799
have a couple of questions. I'm
acquiring into Orthodox, but I just had

360
00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:00,680
a question about salvation because I think
it's important. Okay, is it on

361
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:07,720
the topic today as it evangelically geat
Okay, right now. I've been seeing

362
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,119
videos with doctor Turk. I'm not
sure if you're familiar with him. I've

363
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,119
heard the name, but I'm not
watched. Not really. Yeah, he

364
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,440
has a different view, I guess
as an evangelical Christian. He says that

365
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:26,000
salvation is I guess forever earned.
You can never lose your salvation. And

366
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:29,599
then I know that Orthodox have a
different views called thaosis. If I'm not

367
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,960
mistaken. Yeah, but I mean
there's many passages in the New Testament that

368
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,000
warren't about that loss and warn't about
tasting of grace and losing it Hebrew six,

369
00:31:38,039 --> 00:31:42,200
et cetera. This seed falls,
falls on certain ground, and springs

370
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:47,519
up to new life and dies.
So Paul just says in Romans eleven that

371
00:31:47,559 --> 00:31:52,279
you can be cut out of the
of the branch. Yeah, what about

372
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:55,799
do you have? I'm assuming you've
heard this before. When Jesus was crucified,

373
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:57,920
he looked over to the left side
and he said, he said,

374
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,559
the other man said, I believe
in you without being baptized or without doing

375
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:06,279
any the sacraments or anything like that. What do you have to say against?

376
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,480
I guess. So that's baptism of
blood. So he was baptized.

377
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,680
He's baptized by by the blood,
and the church fathers all toos baptism of

378
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:28,599
blood limitless. You want to try
again, I'm mute yo, Hello,

379
00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:34,079
old time man. Yeah, I
joined up my other account. But when

380
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,079
I was unmuted, everything went silence. I could see anything. I got

381
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:42,599
blot but I was gonna ask,
what religion do you identify with? I

382
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,799
just came in. I've seen all
your stuff, Info wars, Orthodox Christianity,

383
00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:52,000
all right, but have you read
the Quran and like what discredited?

384
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,880
Well, I have not read the
entire Quran, but I've read a lot

385
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,640
of the Qoran. I got the
Koran right here in front of it.

386
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,039
If you want to go through it. No, not really, I just

387
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:05,759
said, I just want to know, like if you give me like a

388
00:33:05,759 --> 00:33:08,440
couple of hot points on a couple
yeah, Like the Quran claims to be

389
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:14,039
consistent with prior revelation, but prior
revelation teaches the Trinity, a treat teaches

390
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:16,400
the deity of Christ, so it's
not consistent with prior revelation. There's cult,

391
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,920
there's countless things in prior revelation,
such as the temple, such as

392
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,880
the priesthood, such as liturgy,
such as the altar, all of which

393
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,839
was necessary from the earliest days of
God's people all the way up to Christianity.

394
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:32,079
And then now we get this supposed
new revelation which says none of that's

395
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:37,400
actually necessary. So this is not
in continenty. That's ultimately a total defeater

396
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:44,319
for Islam. Seeus, my thing
was always like, what do you believe?

397
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:46,680
That is like the whole thing with
the angel Gabriel and him not knowing

398
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:52,319
how to reader write. That's a
that's a demon. So he was demonically

399
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:59,240
possessed. That's what I think.
Uhland, what's up? And there one

400
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:02,799
one of the Hads says he fell
over and having seizures moment at the mouth.

401
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:13,480
Bland, what's up? I'm you
Yeah, so I'm not super knowledgeable,

402
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,719
so he might have to git in
a basic with me. But my

403
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:25,360
understanding of arianism versus what Joe's witnesses
believe is that, well, first I

404
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:30,800
want to make sure I have my
understanding of the two positions correctly. One

405
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:36,760
is his arianism or rejection of the
divinity of Jesus whatsoever, or only the

406
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:44,679
rejection of his who I guess who
equalness with God. Well, he's the

407
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,960
first thing God created in the Aryan
position, so but for us it doesn't

408
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,960
matter because he's not a creature.
So whether it's distinguished in the Jobe is

409
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,480
witness position from the ancient Aryan position
doesn't matter because both positions are denial of

410
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:09,960
his full deity. So so the
arianism is not necessarily that he is what

411
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,480
I'm trying to get, the first
thing that God created before the foundation of

412
00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:17,719
the world, and when he came
to quote save us, he's a moral

413
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,920
exemplar. So it really undoes the
entire plan of redemption, the entire notion

414
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:29,639
of what redemption is, where Jesus
is this guy who or a demigod basically,

415
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,519
So ultimately arianism is polytheism because he's
a sort of created demi god who

416
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:42,559
is a moral example. So there's
no actual miraculous death rill resurrection which deifies

417
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:46,440
us. All of that's canceled out. Okay, So my understanding was what

418
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:57,800
it was that it's Jesus was a
basically an angel in the most powerful angel

419
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,599
and a separate entity from God.
Yeah, he's the first thing that God

420
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:07,800
created. That's the Aryan position,
Okay. And they'll say that when you

421
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,639
have this angel language, they'll say
that that's him. Now we think the

422
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:14,519
Angel of the Lord is Jesus,
but he's not a creature. He's called

423
00:36:14,559 --> 00:36:19,199
the creator. The entire chapter of
Hebrews one is explaining that he's superior to

424
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:25,079
all angels because he is the creator
of the angels, got it? It's

425
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:32,199
the why does why does God?
Still? According to their position, If

426
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:42,159
it's Jesus is God's most important creation, why does that nullify his sacrifice to

427
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,159
wipe away sin? Because in the
Aryan view, he's a moral example.

428
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:52,480
It doesn't actually provide any propitiation.
He's just a good dude that you try

429
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:58,719
to emulate and be good. So
there's no notion of actually being metaphysically restored

430
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:04,280
and saved through grace, uncreated grace. It's not a participation in uncreated grace.

431
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:07,840
It's there's a good dude, try
to be like him. Oh see,

432
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:14,039
that's also different than I thought,
because I thought it was like he's

433
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:22,000
he's he was some sort of a
spirit creature that had at powers that were

434
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:29,199
equal to, you know, the
creation of Adam. I guess I don't

435
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,000
know what that means. Spirit power
is equal to the creation of Adam.

436
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:35,519
I don't know what that means.
So what I mean is like, so

437
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:44,039
if God created man and then people
screwed up and they needed some sort of

438
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:50,960
a redemption, why wouldn't an equally
important person being sacrificed cancel that out?

439
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,840
Because of what I just said that
salvation is a participation in uncreated grace,

440
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,440
the life, love, and in
mortality of God. It's the it's partaking

441
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,239
of the very glory of God to
become immortal. A dude that's just an

442
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,360
example can't do that and doesn't do
all of that. It removes the miraculous,

443
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:15,039
it removes the participation in the uncreated
That's why it's called moral example theory

444
00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:20,400
of the atonement. So the Aryan
position or even the Jeovah's witness position about

445
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,760
what the atonement is is not a
actual propitiation. It's the moral example theory

446
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:30,800
of the atonement. So it's not
a miraculous salvation at all. It's be

447
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:35,039
like that good guy over there.
That's not the Christian teaching. Christian teaching

448
00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:38,480
is that Jesus came to destroy the
angel of death Satan, who had the

449
00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:43,280
power of death, and to grant
us a share in his uncreated glory,

450
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:50,639
as he says in John seventeen.
That is not Joa's witness teaching. I

451
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,079
mostly understand what you're saying, but
I think the one point that I think

452
00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:59,840
maybe you're playing down isn't I don't
think either of them just say that he

453
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:05,920
some dude. They say that he's
the most after God. It doesn't matter.

454
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:08,400
Because you can be the most important
angel, You're still a creature,

455
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,880
and no angel can. A creature
can't save you. That's the point.

456
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,360
God is our savior, God,
my God, and my savior. Right,

457
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,679
That's what scripture says. When Thomas
puts his finger into his side,

458
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,440
he calls him God. Okay,
So Jesus is the second person of the

459
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,320
Godhead, the son of God eternally
the son of God. And so what

460
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,880
I'm telling you is correct. It
doesn't matter how high of a created status

461
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,880
you want to make him if you
say he's the greatest angel. The theory

462
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:46,400
of atonement that Arians have is called
moral example theory. Okay, thank you,

463
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:05,360
m Let's see Alex. What's up, Alex? Well there, unbelievable

464
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:12,239
got on? Mute? Yeah?
Hi, hi Jay? What's up?

465
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:20,199
I hope a question about the adulterous
woman. Is it related to today's topics?

466
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:34,920
Uh? No? Exposing the Amish? What's up? Hi Jay?

467
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:42,199
I just wanted to this. There's
a gentleman called Matthew Towell on X.

468
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,360
He's like a Protestant I think,
well, a former Amish person and he's

469
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,400
been just reflessly promoting the banning of
the Old Testament, and I just really

470
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,079
wanted to get that out there.
Maybe, you know, I think he's

471
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:59,719
got like sixteen thousand followers or something. Matthew Towers, you said, yeah,

472
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:02,559
you tail a truth truth tale a
part the costs. I just think

473
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:06,960
it's out of control, and I'll
just really had to Yeah, Well,

474
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:13,119
that's just that's just a repeating of
the Marcianite heresies. So every new fangled

475
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,760
movement or idea that people come up
with today is not new. They're just

476
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,280
rehashing old heresies because it's the same
demons that are influencing and impelling them.

477
00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:27,480
So appreciate that. Yes, everybody
look out for whoever this weird amish guy

478
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:32,920
is. Yeah, I mean,
anybody familiar with the New Testament. In

479
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,519
the way the New Testament constantly cites
and references the Old Testament. You have

480
00:41:38,559 --> 00:41:45,320
to be either nefarious, malicious,
or completely stupid to think that the Old

481
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,400
Testament is not in contact. I
did a whole three hour talk on continuity

482
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,920
between the Old New Testament. Guys. I'm not trying to be mean to

483
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,280
people, but if the topic is
not on today's list, of topics.

484
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,119
Okay, Protestanism, Evangelicalism, lackyber
Israelites, Islam, Mormons, Arians,

485
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:08,760
that's today's topic. Oh I got
a cramped them a leg Andrew, what's

486
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:22,920
up? Hello? What's up?
Hey? I ran into this argument a

487
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:30,199
little while ago. It was this
weird amalgamation of semi arianism and historianism.

488
00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:34,679
They they were going on on a
whole bunch of crazy different things. Like

489
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,400
first off, they got Arianism wrong, and they were saying arians heresy was

490
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:50,599
to say that Jesus was pre incarnate, so he existed preincarnation, So they

491
00:42:50,599 --> 00:42:52,840
got that wrong. But they also
said that he was a creature. And

492
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:59,480
then also Thestorianism saying that his divinity
was off and then calling the whole and

493
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:04,280
then in the creed they called the
Holy Spirit the word. It's just like,

494
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:09,679
what do you do with something with
that many years? I mean it

495
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:14,159
kind of sounds like the status of
like the Hebrew Israelite stuff. I mean,

496
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:19,239
you're talking to people who are really
just out of control, no education,

497
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:22,280
no idea what they're talking about.
A lot of these people are motivated

498
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,559
by these weird spirits. I mean, that's why it says discern and test

499
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:30,840
the spirits right, because people are
motivated and impelled by bizarre, weird things.

500
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,599
I mean, like, I just
finished reading Isaiah again, and I've

501
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:40,320
kind of been in the cycle where
I read Isaiah and then I read Jeremiah,

502
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,920
I read Ezekiel, I read Isaiah, and then I keep doing this

503
00:43:45,039 --> 00:43:47,480
because I noticed so many things the
more I go through them. And I

504
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:53,760
mean, like the last third of
Isaiah is just constantly predicting and talking about

505
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:58,519
the Trinity and the deity of Christ. I mean, it's just so obvious

506
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,360
in so many chapters that maybe try
a different approach and say, hey,

507
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,800
crazy cult man, why don't you
read the last third of Isaiah about three

508
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,199
times and see if you still come
away with the idea that there's no trinity

509
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:15,199
or that the spirit is the word. I mean, that's just weird.

510
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:22,639
Yeah, oh thank you. Of
course they're probably not going to do that,

511
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:32,719
but whatever, William. Now,
you'll notice here the Trinity is present

512
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,480
right away in Isaiah sixty one,
and we know that it's about the Messiah

513
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:42,119
because Jesus cites it in Luke.
For the Spirit of the Lord is upon

514
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:45,440
me, because the Lord has annointed
me to preach the good tidings to the

515
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:51,440
poor, and that's cited by Jesus
himself and Luke for about himself the spirit

516
00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:57,679
of the Lord, so holy Spirit, the Lord is upon me, the

517
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:02,119
Messiah. That's Jesus speaking. You
see, that's triad. There. Go

518
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:07,679
ahead, Hi, Jay, I'm
calling. I'm actually an Orthodox listener,

519
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,239
but I'm having some debates with Protestant
friends, So feel free to skip if

520
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,440
the question doesn't pertain. Like he'd
liked the cut, No, I mean

521
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:20,320
Protestant is a topic today? Sure, go ahead. Well, basically,

522
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,320
you know, I've been in the
church, been going for about the last

523
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,719
six months, and you know,
as a former Protestant myself, icons were

524
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,440
always kind of an issue for me, but I've sort of just taken it

525
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,920
as an issue of faith. No
problems for me. But one of my

526
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,280
friends has been really really pressing me
on this issue of you know, why

527
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:43,760
do we bow and kiss to these
images, specifically in regards to how it's

528
00:45:44,199 --> 00:45:49,199
made canon law and the Seventh Medical
Council, And you know, he kind

529
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:51,679
of takes the Gavin Ortlund approach of
well, you know, how can you

530
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,760
anathematize and do all these things to
people that don't bow to the pictures,

531
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,880
and I was just wondering if you
had any tools or any of Yeah,

532
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,199
so I wrote, I wrote an
essay specifically on defensive icons from the Bible.

533
00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:08,400
So you can read this essay and
uh, you know, when we

534
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:13,239
look to the dedication of the Temple, all of Israel prostrated before the temple

535
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,039
in the arc. Okay, so
the same principle like, well, why

536
00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:23,199
would you not prostrate before the temple
in the arc? Right? That makes

537
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:28,000
sense? Yeah, exactly. I
mean imagine somebody is standing there and be

538
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:29,840
like, well, I'm not going
to prostrate before the temple in the art

539
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,480
because that's idolatry. Right. The
whole all of Israel would have been like,

540
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,119
no, you're being an idiot,
Like, obviously you should prostrate before

541
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:43,480
the temple article right, the altar. Let me see where I can what

542
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:49,599
I always forget this passage. It's
first King, No, not first King

543
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:59,920
six, let's see. Yeah.
But well, also on top of that,

544
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,199
to to answer your questions about for
us, the argumentation of John Damascus

545
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:09,960
is that the reverence passes to the
prototype. So you have the type and

546
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:16,360
the prototype, so we're not incensing
the wood. We're incensing who's imaged or

547
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,400
pictured in the wood, which is
the hypostasis of the sun, et cetera.

548
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:28,480
Right, does that make sense?
Speaking and I here he was.

549
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:31,760
I don't know if he's here still. I think you left. Okay,

550
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,039
a small, small etiquette question,
just as a you know, like I

551
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:38,320
said, as a person get into
the church. Yeah, well you could.

552
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,559
Yeah, you can try to d
m him and see if or just

553
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:46,320
a tweet at him a question.
I'm sure he would answer it. Let

554
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:52,440
me find I always forget this passage. It's like late in Chronicles, that's

555
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,639
where they're dedicating the temple. I
thought, here, no, is this

556
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:04,280
it? No, that's Elijah's relics. I never remember this passage. Dress

557
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:16,599
me crazy, I thought I put
it in there. Let's see prostrate before

558
00:48:19,639 --> 00:48:37,719
arc and then Solomon is like praying
and dedicating this is it? Yeah?

559
00:48:37,960 --> 00:49:04,360
First Chronicles twenty nine David. I
thought it was Solomon. Then David said

560
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,960
to all assembly, now blessed the
Lord your God. So they assembled and

561
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,079
blessed the Lord, the God of
their fathers. And they all bowed their

562
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:15,440
heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord
and before the king. Okay, so

563
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,599
they're all prostrated. I think there's
a separate event at the dedication of the

564
00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:22,159
temple too. I'm pretty sure it's
where the cloud comes down. It's a

565
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:29,719
different version or a different example of
prostrating before the Lord and the King.

566
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:45,320
But there's a there's a specifically prostrating
before the temple and the arc. Anyway,

567
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:52,360
I thought I had that in my
article. Is it this one?

568
00:49:52,400 --> 00:50:01,360
I think we'll look at this evangelical
geo Citi's website. What is this?

569
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:07,199
Yikes, get me out of that. There is one of these? Is

570
00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:08,760
what Solomon? Is he? I
remember that passage? I apologize off the

571
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:14,760
top of my head, I can't
remember. I may have it marked here.

572
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:35,199
Let me see in my book.
Don't got it marked? Here we

573
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:50,000
go, Solomon's constructing the Temple?
Is that the one I just read?

574
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,000
Anyway, anyway, you get the
point. You can look it up later.

575
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:14,239
Jason Jr. What's up? Man? Glue? Yo? What's up?

576
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:22,280
I started following your work because you
were on tinfoil hat and I'm attracted

577
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:28,840
to Christianity because of answers that the
other that the world seems to not have.

578
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,079
Guys like Chuck Missler, who is
a Protestant, and guys maybe like

579
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:39,159
la Marzouli. They cover things like
the Genesis six, and I was curious

580
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:44,599
if you have any good resources of
some really of more of the crazy Protestant

581
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:47,199
stuff. Is that acceptable in Orthodoxy? And because you kind of do the

582
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:53,239
esoteric Hollywood love that stuff, is
there any I'm sorry? Is what acceptable?

583
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:59,280
Like the view of the Genesis six
Nephelum and that ties into aliens and

584
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,840
what's going on right now with the
alien phenomenon. Is that something that Orthodoxy

585
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,199
is also believe believed in? Or
is there any Orthodox literature I could read

586
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:14,000
about that? I mean, you
could read Orthodoxy in the Religion in the

587
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:20,280
Future by Father Sarah from Rose,
but anothers no explicit statement about what Genesis

588
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,159
six is talking about. There are
about four places in the Dutero canon where

589
00:52:23,159 --> 00:52:28,880
it does talk about Titans and giants, and so I think the weight of

590
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,400
the argument swings over to the side
of it actually being angels. But I

591
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:38,159
don't we don't believe in aliens.
So Edric's by the way, I think

592
00:52:38,159 --> 00:52:42,519
it's I might be thinking of One
King's eight. That might be the section

593
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:46,199
I'm thinking of. Lei's see if
that's it, you know, un mute

594
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:57,840
meant I think this is it.
This is it. Somewhere in here it

595
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:07,960
says they prostrate before the the arc. Go ahead. What's up? I'm

596
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:23,639
mute. Well, interestingly, Solomon
was prostrating at the altar. So there's

597
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,800
Solomon prostrating. But I think Israel
does too in this passage. If I

598
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:53,679
remember correctly, you gonna, I
am mute, marry there all right?

599
00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:02,119
He dropped off dricks. Yeah,
yes, so I'm one King's ay is

600
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:07,079
what I'm thinking about. That's it. But somewhere here, I think it

601
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:15,639
says Israel prostrates too. But regardless, Solemn is prostrating. So what's up?

602
00:54:15,639 --> 00:54:22,280
Man? We can't hear you.
If you guys, when you're calling,

603
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,360
when you want to chat, you
gotta have your permissions. Turn out,

604
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:30,480
We can't hear anything, so pop
out, pop back in. I

605
00:54:30,519 --> 00:54:37,559
mean we already let's see Matt B. What's up, dude? Hey,

606
00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:44,840
you hear me? Yeah? I
heard an argument from a Messianic about how

607
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,400
paganized the Apostolic churches, and I
wanted to hear your thoughts on it.

608
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,559
He claims. I love the New
Testament canon took a lot of influence from

609
00:54:52,599 --> 00:55:00,679
Platonism and took a lot of influence
from the Pagreanism. So the New Testament

610
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,719
canon is corrupted. You said,
the Apostolic Church is corrupted and paganized.

611
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:09,639
The New Testament canon takes from Plato. Yeah, after the Gospels, like

612
00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:14,559
all the epistles and the quin unquote
the church. Okay, well, I

613
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:21,440
mean that would just be out of
hand, like heresy. So I mean

614
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,280
they're probably thinking that the terminology,
but that didn't even even make any sense

615
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:30,760
because that would undercut all the wisdom
texts like Proverbs. I mean it's Proverbs.

616
00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:34,960
Uh, when it when the Septugent
was translated, is that all pagan?

617
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:37,920
I mean, that's that's really dumb. I was just asking the question,

618
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:43,119
I understand understand that. Do you
understand what I'm saying? Yeah?

619
00:55:43,559 --> 00:55:45,639
I think I do. Yeah.
I mean they'll claim anything it's pagan,

620
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:52,880
right. So what I'm saying is
that if the Greek philosophical terminology is what

621
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:59,320
makes it pagan. If you read
John one, John is not drawing on

622
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:06,400
christ logos directly necessarily from paganism.
That's from the wisdom tradition of Proverbs,

623
00:56:06,599 --> 00:56:14,960
Ecclesiastes, syric Wisdom, et cetera. Furthermore, the New Testament itself and

624
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:19,920
its authors frequently cite due to econonical
texts. In fact, Romans one and

625
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:25,199
two is directly from the Book of
Wisdom, and I'm assuming that these messianics

626
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:30,119
would then say that the Book of
Wisdom is also a pagan corruption, which

627
00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:36,880
would be an undercutting of their whole
position. Jesus didn't establish a bunch of

628
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:44,239
Torah scroll scholars, established a church, and if the promise was that the

629
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:49,639
spirit would never leave his church,
the gates of Hell would not prevail against

630
00:56:49,639 --> 00:56:52,800
it, then all of these sectarians
and cults have to come up with this

631
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,360
dumb position that the Church fell apart
in the first century, so the gates

632
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,199
of Hell prevailed against the church.
Paul, Kay, what's up? Man?

633
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,840
Yo? Hello? Hey, yoh, what's up? Man? Sort

634
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,119
of start off and say, I
appreciate your ministry, appreciate everything that you've

635
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:16,280
recorded, and it's been very influential
for me. I'm an Orthodox catechumen.

636
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:22,280
With my brother, yeah, I
started looking to Jewish roots of the Christian

637
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,639
faith and that really got me introduced
into it. So my question for you,

638
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:34,960
it kind of began with Initially it
was like the Augustinian view of in

639
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:39,199
Adam, right, All men are
in Adams in an archetype, right,

640
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:45,880
right, So it's kind of so
I would aim that now more towards the

641
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,440
milk kids, that that in priesthood. So I was reading Hebrew seven and

642
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,119
it says that Levi was in the
loins of Abraham. So how does that

643
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:59,119
incorporation of the posterity function differently here
than it doesn't Adam. It's just too

644
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,639
it's totally different ideas, right,
So being in the loins of your father

645
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:07,480
does not mean that like you're guilty
of his actions, because Ezekiel says that

646
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:10,519
the sons are not guilty for the
actions of the father, and the father

647
00:58:10,679 --> 00:58:15,320
not guilty of the actions of the
son. So even in Ezekiel, we're

648
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,800
told that God doesn't hold their children
liable for the actions of the parent.

649
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,159
So the question is, then,
whose position can reconcile Romans five and what

650
00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:28,480
Ezekiel says, because we've got to
be able to reconcile these sects, And

651
00:58:28,639 --> 00:58:34,679
the difference boils down to the question
of the mode of willing. Augustinian theology

652
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,599
is not consistent in its distinguishing nature
in person, in God or in Man.

653
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:43,480
So one of the ways that Augustine
thinks that the human race is the

654
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:46,280
damned mass, that is, the
mass of humans in Atom that are damned

655
00:58:46,719 --> 00:58:51,760
is because he thinks that all of
nature is condemned in Atom. But he's

656
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:58,039
not understanding that the mode of willing
by which we are accountable is hypostatic.

657
00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:02,639
Right, So we have a property
of willing that's a natural will, but

658
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,920
we will in the mode of persons, So it's a hypostatic mode of willing.

659
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:14,639
That's the distinction that's necessary to understand
why you're not guilty for another person's

660
00:59:14,639 --> 00:59:17,719
action. You're not guilty until you
commit the sin like Adam. That's why

661
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:22,360
I father Myandorf is correct to say
that the translation of the passage in Romans

662
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:27,440
five should be all men's sin because
of Adam, not all men's sin in

663
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:35,239
Adam, which one of Myndorf's boks
say that it's it is theology. Because

664
00:59:35,239 --> 00:59:37,679
I'm reading that right now, I'm
not sure if it's actually in that.

665
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,159
It might actually be from an essay. I can put it underneath the chat

666
00:59:40,239 --> 00:59:46,400
right here because but but my emphasis
was more in the right. But what

667
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:51,519
I'm saying is that that has nothing
to do with the notion of the mode

668
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:57,519
of willing. He's just saying that
before he was ever born, his representative

669
00:59:57,639 --> 01:00:00,880
or his person who was his lineage
right when he was in the lowins,

670
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:05,920
not saying that he doesn't exist yet. So okay, So we believe in

671
01:00:06,719 --> 01:00:09,639
the existence of the soul at the
point of insemination, say Maximus talks about

672
01:00:09,679 --> 01:00:14,719
this. We don't believe that you
pre exist, you know, in some

673
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:19,280
seminal way in your your great great
great great grandfather. It's just saying that

674
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:28,079
he existed in a sense of having
a predecessor, a lineage, lineage.

675
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,920
Okay, it's not saying he's literally
in the loins. He doesn't exist yet,

676
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:36,719
how could he be. We believe
in immediate creation, right, okay,

677
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,079
So then sorry, second question build
off that. Then what about with

678
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:52,280
Isaac, Jacob and Roman and the
two different? Like Jacob is the problems

679
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,960
is given to him, Esau is
rejected, and and then so like the

680
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,880
the incorporation of posterity, there is
is it an argument? I don't say,

681
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,840
Well, it's certainly true that you
can bring the consequences of your actions

682
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:15,880
on people or on your ancestors if
I, you know, dilute this.

683
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:22,480
The county, the county well with
fentanyl, and the whole city becomes addicts.

684
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,639
They experience the consequences of my sin, but that doesn't make them guilty

685
01:01:27,719 --> 01:01:30,719
because it wasn't their fault. That's
why Ezekiel. When you read Ezekiel eighteen,

686
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:45,679
it says, I'll read the passage
here, it says, is it

687
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:51,480
nineteen? I think, yeah,
eighteen nineteen? No, yeah, yeah,

688
01:01:51,599 --> 01:01:53,760
it is. The son will not
bear the guilt of the father,

689
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,000
because the son has done what is
lawful and right, and he gives my

690
01:01:57,039 --> 01:02:00,840
statue the soul whose sins will die. This is why we make the distinction

691
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,960
between actual sin and what's called original
or ancestral sin, which means that Adam

692
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:08,320
is guilty, but the effects of
the sin come upon all of his descendants.

693
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,159
But you're not a sinner until you
commit actual sin. And both the

694
01:02:13,239 --> 01:02:15,440
Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholics already
agree on this. The only people who

695
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:21,480
dispute this are people who are ignorant. Yeah, Protestant, I really don't

696
01:02:21,559 --> 01:02:28,679
understand the dismissal of personal responsibility.
That's right. That's because willing can only

697
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:32,519
be done by persons. Natures don't
will persons with nature's will and that's why

698
01:02:32,599 --> 01:02:37,000
guilt is something that's had by the
individual, not by a collective nature.

699
01:02:37,079 --> 01:02:39,599
There's no such thing as guilty nature. It doesn't even make any sense.

700
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:45,760
And when there's language that's used,
it's used to describe the deprivation of grace,

701
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:52,079
not actual guilt. Rodney, what's
up. It's just the same principle

702
01:02:52,079 --> 01:02:55,119
when if a mom drinks when she's
pregnant and the child is born with fetal

703
01:02:55,159 --> 01:03:00,840
alcohol hahol syndrome, we don't blame
the child as guilty of descin alcoholism.

704
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,559
That's the effects of the sin,
not the guilt of the sin. Two

705
01:03:04,559 --> 01:03:07,920
different things. So Adam is guilty
for Adam's sin, and we are guilty

706
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:13,599
when we sin. Hence Myandor's point
that if you just look up, I

707
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:16,239
think it's a website called the Light
of Table or here. I'll pull it

708
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:30,280
up, and it's a bunch of
quotes about Romans five and Augustine. I

709
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:35,280
don't actually know which book it's from. We can see if it's it's right

710
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:43,360
here, Father Mindorf on original Sin
the tab orc Light. Actually, I

711
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,039
think this is like a UNI eight
website, so I wouldn't recommend it.

712
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:51,400
But this is where the essay is
if you just want the brief article making

713
01:03:51,480 --> 01:04:00,559
this point. What's up? Man? Go ahead, Rodney hear hey,

714
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:06,840
all right. So I'm a Protestant, you know, uh, given kind

715
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:13,599
of working through some like different views
on real presence, uh, symbolic views

716
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:16,039
on the de gris stuff like that. I've kind of going back and forth

717
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:20,920
between you know, symbolic real presence. I was just kind of looking to

718
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:27,760
like solidify uh my views on it
as far as real presence goes, and

719
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:31,159
what in what sort of a model
of real presence I should I should choose?

720
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:36,360
Well, the orthodox view is that
the deified flesh of Christ post resurrection

721
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:41,199
is identical to what we are partaking
of in the EU Christ. And this

722
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:45,360
is a Saint Cyril's argument at Ephesus. And I would say, you know,

723
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,039
if you're looking for a ways to
understand this, almost all the Protestant

724
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:56,400
positions, can you can you mute? Man, it's really loud. Almost

725
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,159
all the Protestant positions basically put us
in a position where we're reverting to the

726
01:05:00,159 --> 01:05:05,840
Old Testament modality of the sacraments.
So why would we establish a church and

727
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:13,039
Jesus set up this empowering through Pentecost, when essentially everything that's going on in

728
01:05:13,079 --> 01:05:15,119
the rituals of the Church is identical
to the rituals in the Old Testament.

729
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:21,239
The New Testament contrasts the power and
presence of the rituals themselves to the Old

730
01:05:21,239 --> 01:05:29,960
Testament realities. So baptism is contrasted
to it's foreshadowing of circumcision. So I

731
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:31,639
think how silly it would be to
say that, well, baptism is just

732
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,320
literally the same as circumcision. It's
just now including women. Okay, No,

733
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:41,840
Baptism is said to be the thing
that puts you in Christ in the

734
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,960
Book of Romans, right, Baptism
is said to be what regenerates you in

735
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,880
Titus three to five. Baptism is
what remits the sins in Acts two thirty

736
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:53,880
eight thirty nine. So Protestants then
come to all these passages and say,

737
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:57,719
oh, but that's all divided from
the actual historical event, because that's all

738
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:05,400
spiritual stuff is Jesus divided from his
physical body. You see how Protestants have

739
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:15,800
a Nestorian view of the sacraments.
And I see that. Yeah, I've

740
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,559
been, you know, on my
little spiritual journey recently. But yeah,

741
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:26,119
I mean I I don't see the
I just recently, actually, yeah,

742
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:31,440
I asked my pastor about some of
the passages as far as real presence goes

743
01:06:31,679 --> 01:06:35,079
in the Bible, and I feel
like the responses are kind of lacking and

744
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:42,840
they're kind of uh ill informed the
real presence. Yeah, yeah, so

745
01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:45,760
real presence as far as because I
asked him a question, I said,

746
01:06:45,199 --> 01:06:49,440
can you make it an historical case? Uh, in a biblical case for

747
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:54,039
your position? Historical case was just
kind of thrown out the window, and

748
01:06:54,119 --> 01:07:00,400
biblic cases kind of lackluster. And
you're asking your pastor if he can defend

749
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,199
the real presence. No, I
asked him if he could make a biblicase

750
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,440
for symbolic Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean,

751
01:07:06,559 --> 01:07:10,280
why are we getting cursed or something
that's a symbol. How does a symbol

752
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:14,400
kill me? Paul warns you that
if you partake unworthily, it can kill

753
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,559
you. Well, that to me
suggests it's a real presence, right,

754
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:36,320
Dan, what's up? Yah,
Sarah, what's up? I'm just kind

755
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,679
of catching up and I watched it, but at the start, you were

756
01:07:39,719 --> 01:07:43,719
kind of talking about the relationship between
the Church and the Jewish people. Uh

757
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,599
huh. I was wondered, I
mean from reading the Church Fathers or some

758
01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:51,719
of them anyway, like I know, some of the canons, it kind

759
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:56,239
of it kind of went the way
obviously of Acts fifteen, where the whole

760
01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:00,360
question is can gentiles join the church? Right? And then they decide they

761
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,679
can. They only have to keep
the four you know, the fore laws

762
01:08:03,719 --> 01:08:09,519
that they laid out there. Why
I don't know if you have a resource

763
01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:13,599
for this or just kind of like, you know, a strade of answer,

764
01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:23,239
But why why did it seem that
the gentile church eventually kind of cut

765
01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:27,239
out? You know, if you
want to be a part of the church.

766
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,119
It seems like even if you're Jewish, you have to stop doing your

767
01:08:31,239 --> 01:08:38,159
Jewish things, like in the way
that you used to. Like well,

768
01:08:38,199 --> 01:08:43,319
because there was an appropriate time period
and what's called the transition period. This

769
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,479
is from the time of like Jesus'
ministry, death, rone resurrection to the

770
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,920
destruction of the Temple in seventy a
D. And seventy a D plays a

771
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:55,680
really important role in the New Testament
in finalizing the end of the Old Covenant

772
01:08:55,680 --> 01:09:01,119
administration. So the temptations that or
the pre missions that were had in the

773
01:09:01,119 --> 01:09:05,159
Book of Acts when people were still
praying in the temple. Uh, you

774
01:09:05,199 --> 01:09:10,319
know, Jews and Christians were still
at times worshiping and synagogues. And that's

775
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:15,760
the transition period. So we are
this is prior to the period when rabbinic

776
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:20,000
Judaism gets more and more harsh against
Christianity and the two things part ways over

777
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:27,479
the person of Christ. So it
made sense after this period to solidify against

778
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:32,520
the temptations of judaizing, any forms
of returning to Judaism. That's the Book

779
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:38,000
of Hebrews itself is an early version
of the temptation towards Judaizing. Because the

780
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:42,920
things that are in the Judaic Administrator, that assiming the Mosaic administration, they're

781
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:49,640
fulfilled. So the fullness of Judaism
is Orthodoxy as the point. Sure,

782
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:58,920
if you were a Jewish Orthodos Christian
and you still had you know, I

783
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,640
mean, one question I've always had
is for the things that you know you

784
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:06,920
see in Exodus where God says this
is an everlasting covenant or like you will

785
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:14,920
do this forever right, like he
says that for a few things over yeah,

786
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,439
and all of those things the Orthodox
Church still does. But you would

787
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,399
just argue that they're done in a
different or more fulfilling They're done in the

788
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:28,840
way that they were always intended to
ultimately be done. How are we circumcised

789
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,680
by having our hearts circumcised? Well, I'm not talking about for sorry,

790
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,680
I'm not talking about for gentiles to
do those things. But I would more

791
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:41,520
ask for Jewish people who are part
of like orthodoxed Christianity. Let's say,

792
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:55,079
do the natural born Jewish people have
a duty still to that covenant? They

793
01:10:55,119 --> 01:11:01,159
would be the very people that you're
talking about are the founders of the church

794
01:11:01,399 --> 01:11:05,760
in the first ten chapters of Acts, So they're the ones that are the

795
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:13,760
model for this. So, Peter, Paul, those are the people that

796
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:19,920
you're talking about. So the jew
would become like those people. Does that

797
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:33,079
make sense? Or no? Are
you there? I lost you? You

798
01:11:33,159 --> 01:11:40,199
dropped off. You want to pop
back on? And we lost you?

799
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:47,239
You left? I don't know,
Sorry, they broke up. Did you

800
01:11:47,239 --> 01:11:50,680
hear what I said around? Yeah? So what I said was that the

801
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:57,720
question that you're answering or asking is
already answered by the first ten chapters of

802
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:02,680
Acts where the apostles themselves who are
all Jews? Right? That's Jews would

803
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:10,039
become like those people. And those
people didn't set up a return to mosaic

804
01:12:10,119 --> 01:12:18,239
administration. They set up what we
have now true. So like for you

805
01:12:18,279 --> 01:12:23,359
know, partly we have like we
know that Paul was the apostle of the

806
01:12:23,359 --> 01:12:26,439
Gentiles and Peter was the apostle of
the Jews, and we have to Peter's

807
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:31,880
letters and we know that. So
that all is during the period where you

808
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,119
would say that was the inter period. I mean, have you read so

809
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:42,239
are you familiar with what pretterism is
or seventy eight? No? Okay,

810
01:12:42,279 --> 01:12:45,000
So this is very important to the
New Testament. In Luke twenty one,

811
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,279
in Matthew twenty four, there's the
prediction of the destruction of the temple.

812
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,520
This occurs in seventy a d.
The destruction of the temple means that the

813
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:58,199
Old Covenant administration is done right complete, Okay, So there's no there would

814
01:12:58,279 --> 01:13:01,239
be no way or meaning or signal
against two going back to things that have

815
01:13:01,319 --> 01:13:09,840
already been fulfilled. And that's so
anything that Jewish people would have kept would

816
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,600
have been more a cultural don't know, you're you're missing it, Like you

817
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,479
should watch the documentary that we made
about Orthodox worship, because all of the

818
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:23,039
elements that you're asking about passed into
the church. The church is vibrantly Hebrew

819
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:28,840
if you understand what our our ethos
is and what our origins are. So

820
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:32,199
for example, I fully agree that
it's like, so my I came from

821
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:35,920
a Protestant background, my wife is
from a Jewish background today and we're both

822
01:13:36,039 --> 01:13:42,039
whatsodous Christians out. I've always just
had the question, especially when I was

823
01:13:42,039 --> 01:13:47,079
a Protestant, of just how does
you know I mean, and that's what

824
01:13:47,159 --> 01:13:50,920
happened with like getting into the early
Church and like where did those Jewish people

825
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,640
go? And like I and I, you know, obviously we settled at

826
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:59,960
the Orthodox. You know, we
are now Orthodox. So yeah, I've

827
01:14:00,039 --> 01:14:01,640
appointed Yeah, I think, I
mean, I understand the question, like

828
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:09,520
it's it's a fair question because like
like I was saying earlier, I think

829
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:15,159
somebody was saying, under the Jerusalem
Patriarch it there's actually the liturgy is actually

830
01:14:15,159 --> 01:14:19,319
done in Hebrew, which to me
that makes sense. I don't know that

831
01:14:19,359 --> 01:14:23,119
it's in every church, but I'm
saying there's at least one church where somebody

832
01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:27,239
sent me a clip of the liturgy
being done in Hebrew. So to me

833
01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:30,399
that makes sense. So like the
Ethos. If you see here, look

834
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:34,319
at watching this documentary. Have you
watched the documentary Jewish Roots of Ancient Worship?

835
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:42,439
Christian worship? Which documentary was that? The documentary that Lewis made my

836
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:46,960
buddy over at orthodox YadA, I'm
not sure that Christian worship in the Old

837
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:54,800
Testaments. This This would probably answer
a lot of your questions. I was

838
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,439
talking with I was talking to a
jewishjud in Miami and I was like,

839
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:59,760
He's like, AHw was that Passover? And I was like, oh,

840
01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:03,319
so was I. And he was
like, how are you got Passover?

841
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:09,119
I was like, that's what pasca
is. He was like what, Yeah,

842
01:15:09,159 --> 01:15:30,239
So watch this documentary, Henry,
what's up? You gotta unmute Henry,

843
01:15:36,079 --> 01:15:43,079
Henry are you there? You guys
gotta turn your mike permissions on,

844
01:15:43,720 --> 01:16:00,560
so I can't hear anything. Grim, what's up? Grim? You got

845
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:10,640
im mute? Man, Graham,
I'm mute. Yeah, Yeah, what's

846
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:15,520
up? Hey? Uh? Yeah? This is a question about authority Muslims.

847
01:16:15,119 --> 01:16:20,800
So you know, I saw your
debate with Jake a long time ago.

848
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:25,520
But one thing that I've encountered with
a lot of authorities that they really

849
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:30,279
love to say that they affirm you
know energy essence distinction, uh in their

850
01:16:30,359 --> 01:16:34,159
doctrine. Well, and to be
clear, it's not essence in er distinction.

851
01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:40,680
It's a distinction between Allah and his
attributes. Yeah. Yeah, so

852
01:16:41,079 --> 01:16:45,319
I think and you know the argument
that I would usually use, and I

853
01:16:45,399 --> 01:16:49,119
just want you to, like kind
of you know, help me understand better

854
01:16:49,199 --> 01:16:55,399
how to make this argument against that
claim. And I know that the you

855
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:59,680
know, tan Zy, the doctrine
about Allah nothing like creation completely transcend it

856
01:17:00,119 --> 01:17:06,479
would that include any distinction in all
law as well? Well, again,

857
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:12,880
it really depends on which type of
Muslim, So the argument's only going to

858
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:18,560
work depending upon which school you're talking
about authority specifically. I don't remember if

859
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:24,840
what's their position. Remind me it's
the it's it's what we just said that

860
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:30,359
they make a distinction between the energies
are sorry, the attributes of a law

861
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,760
in their right? So you could
ask them, uh, do the do

862
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:39,960
the attributes possess a sayity? Because
this is if you watch the doctor Bud

863
01:17:40,039 --> 01:17:46,359
Branson debate with Jake did the whole
debate becomes that sayety a sayity? I

864
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,439
say self existent. So, in
other words, if what it is to

865
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:56,960
be divine is to have self existence
to be a say a sayety, then

866
01:17:58,079 --> 01:18:02,239
do the attributes considered in the selves
possess a sayity And Jake says no,

867
01:18:03,079 --> 01:18:11,800
okay, Well, then you now
have this position that then the attributes are

868
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:15,840
not really fully divine because they're lacking
they're lacking a sayity. I get it.

869
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:21,000
Yeah. And about tan Z specifically, when you say, if that

870
01:18:21,039 --> 01:18:26,359
would apply to you every single attribute
to a law ten zy nothing like creation.

871
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,039
If it isn't applied to every attribute, then that means you're kind of

872
01:18:30,079 --> 01:18:35,840
making a separation between a law being
completely ten z nothing like creation in another

873
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:40,800
part of all law, or attribute
not being ten z or the essence.

874
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:47,319
Yeah, I just think that the
the way I usually flesh out that argument

875
01:18:47,359 --> 01:18:49,960
is to just say that, yeah, but how is that telling us anything

876
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:54,560
about him? Because you're I mean, maybe that's what the point you're making.

877
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,800
Like, if Allah is nothing like
creation, then it seems to follow

878
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,560
that all those attributes are also nothing
like creation. Right, Yeah, yeah,

879
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,479
exactly exactly, And since you can
know the attributes, therefore he is

880
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:09,479
something like creation. Yeah exactly.
All right, that's all I happened,

881
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:12,720
thank you. Yeah, I've never
heard them give a coherent sufficient answer to

882
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:15,920
that very question. But yeah,
you're right, and I should. I

883
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:20,760
would say definitely watch doctor bo versus
Jake, because their whole debate is about

884
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:34,920
the question you asked the first question, Daniel, what's up? So I've

885
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:39,520
been going through a lot of the
old some of the old stuff on your

886
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:46,720
channel, and I was watching your
debate with Eric you Barrow, and you

887
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:54,439
said that to prove Catholicism true,
that you want a coherent presentation of the

888
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:59,359
doctrine the Vatican One from the beginning
until now, right, correct? And

889
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:04,199
so what would So my question is
what would I don't know, what would

890
01:20:04,279 --> 01:20:11,920
your if you could say, what
is the coherent presentation for orthodoxy in the

891
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:16,800
first millennium until now? Like,
what would okay, what would prove orthodoxy

892
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,760
for you? I mean, obviously
you believe it, but like, what

893
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,119
would be the one? I don't
know. I don't want to say,

894
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:26,199
well, it's not the topic,
but I'll go ahead and answer your question.

895
01:20:26,399 --> 01:20:29,399
So one of the easiest ways that
I would try to argue this is

896
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:32,319
from the canons of the seven Ecumenical
Councils. And if the Canons of the

897
01:20:32,359 --> 01:20:39,399
Seven Councils are enacted, with the
mindset and the attitude that the Bishop of

898
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:44,439
Rome is not what Vatican one claims
him to be. Then, in all

899
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,800
of these centuries and all these seven
councils, because they all contain canons that

900
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:51,119
conflict with the Vatican One idea,
then the mindset of the church in the

901
01:20:51,119 --> 01:20:56,359
first thousand years is not the Vatican
One mindset. Furthermore, the T eighty

902
01:20:56,399 --> 01:21:00,960
document and the Alexandria Document admit that
the Bishop of Rome not exercise canonical jurisdiction

903
01:21:01,039 --> 01:21:05,039
over the churches of the East in
the first millennium. Okay, uh,

904
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:08,920
yeah, my bad. I didn't
realize that it wasn't a Catholic And then

905
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,159
is what's it good? Like?
Is there like an online place where you

906
01:21:13,199 --> 01:21:15,479
can read the canons of the well, we have all the ones collected and

907
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:21,159
listed right here in this essay that
conflict with Vatican One. Okay, you

908
01:21:21,199 --> 01:21:25,720
put that in the chat. Yeah, it's called ecumenical canons refute papal supremacy.

909
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:29,359
So it's right here, okay,
bet, thank you. Yeah,

910
01:21:29,399 --> 01:21:33,159
absolutely. And then separately, I
would say, read the CH eighty document

911
01:21:33,239 --> 01:21:42,039
and the Alexandria Document, which our
Roman Catholic approved council work Commission on the

912
01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:50,720
Eastern Church or whatever it's called.
Johnny, what's up? By the way,

913
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:56,359
did everybody see that? As soon
as Francis made his statement, it

914
01:21:56,439 --> 01:22:00,439
was twenty four hours before he was
walking back and apologizing. As soon as

915
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:02,840
I put up my tweet, I
couldn't even make a joke, and Francis

916
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:14,640
was already apologizing to skittles, what's
up, Johnny? We got we got

917
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:16,800
Keanu in the chat. What's up, Keanu? Johnny? You thaw?

918
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:26,840
What's up? Man? All right, Johnny's having a hard time connecting,

919
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:34,840
so we'll go to narrative. What's
up narrative? What's up? Narrative?

920
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:40,399
Well, guys, if you would
hit, like and share, also be

921
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:44,279
sure to support us via chalk dot
com. Head on chalk dot com.

922
01:22:44,399 --> 01:22:47,000
You see the link right here that
seven Wonders use the promo code J forty

923
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:50,000
four life. That's j A y
four four l A f E to get

924
01:22:50,039 --> 01:22:55,359
forty four percent off all these great
products, including the Performance Stack, which

925
01:22:55,399 --> 01:23:00,319
is a personal favorite of mine,
particularly the Tonkatalie proven to boost testosterone in

926
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:04,000
peer reviewed studies. You don't pay
one seventy four, you pay forty four

927
01:23:04,039 --> 01:23:11,000
percent off of that what's up?
Narrative? Respect man, respect, So

928
01:23:11,119 --> 01:23:15,640
I'm coming kind of lead to the
conversation, what's what are you debating about

929
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:17,119
is Nam? What do you?
What are you? Well, it's kind

930
01:23:17,159 --> 01:23:21,800
of open for them, so we
can debate whatever topics anybody wants about Islam.

931
01:23:24,119 --> 01:23:26,800
I mean, I'm a Musta,
so I'm coming from the mister perspective.

932
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:30,920
So I came home when somebody was
talking about the attributes of a law

933
01:23:31,119 --> 01:23:35,720
right, So what is the argument
for that? I didn't really hit Well,

934
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:40,680
we were talking about different schools,
different akidas, and different positions,

935
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,520
and I was just saying that you
kind of if you're opposed to those positions.

936
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,439
I'm an Orthodox Christian, so obviously
I oppose those positions. You have

937
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:54,000
to tailor the argument depending upon which
school you're talking to. So, but

938
01:23:54,079 --> 01:23:58,720
my challenge to you would be,
how is Islam true if it contradicts the

939
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,479
revelation that came prior when the Koran
says that you can go to the prior

940
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:09,239
revelation to vindicate it. So give
you an example. Where's the contradiction.

941
01:24:10,319 --> 01:24:13,920
Well, I mean the Old Testament
and the New Testament teach the Trinity and

942
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:18,880
the deedy of Christ. And the
Koran doesn't give me an example. I

943
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:24,239
mean, give me a verse out
of the Old Testament teaches the Trinity.

944
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:28,720
The trio Isaiah sixty one, the
spirit of the Lord is upon me because

945
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:31,880
he's annoying me to preach good tidings
to the poor. Jesus is talking about

946
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:35,479
the Holy Spirit being upon him.
He's talking about God the Father sending him,

947
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:40,800
and that is a prediction that Jesus
says is about him. And Luke

948
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:46,159
four. No, No, let's
let's be realistic. That's an interpretation you

949
01:24:46,279 --> 01:24:51,319
just gave. That's not literally everybody
has an interpretation. But so what so

950
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:56,520
well? That hasn't so well?
It's calling it an interpretation has nothing to

951
01:24:56,560 --> 01:25:00,479
do with whether it's true or false. I mean, your interpretation could be

952
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:03,359
wrong, brother, you know what
I'm saying, Like anybody's could be Oh

953
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:09,760
okay, so so nobody so we're
relatives. Nobody knows whose interpretations are correct.

954
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:14,439
I mean, if obviously, if
you just I mean, I didn't

955
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:16,479
hear nothing about the Triny. I
heard the Holy Spirit is an how many

956
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:23,439
people? How many people did you
how many people were mentioned there? It

957
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,199
was? It was no people,
It's the Holy spirit. Are you considering

958
01:25:26,239 --> 01:25:29,279
the spirit of Okay, well,
how many? How many are mentioned here?

959
01:25:29,319 --> 01:25:31,520
The spirit of the Lord is upon
me? How many is that?

960
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:34,199
Okay? The Spirit of the Lord
is upon me? So it's two.

961
01:25:34,399 --> 01:25:39,560
Is talking about a spirit and a
person? Uh, the spirit of God

962
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:42,319
is upon you don't even know?
Do you even know what this passage is?

963
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:46,199
Do you know what the passage is
a reference to? Obviously you know

964
01:25:46,319 --> 01:25:49,439
better than me, brother, So
to explain what is it? A reference

965
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:53,800
to? Jesus cites it in Luke
four, as I said, as a

966
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:59,800
thing prophesying him. So it's about
Jesus, and Jesus is saying God's spirit

967
01:26:00,159 --> 01:26:03,239
is upon me. That's God,
the Father has sent his spoly spirit to

968
01:26:03,279 --> 01:26:08,359
be upon me. That's three.
That's a Messianic prophecy. It's one of

969
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:12,399
dozens. Like like I said,
that's it. That's it. So do

970
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:15,119
Jews interpret it the same way that
the people who the Troy was sent to.

971
01:26:15,319 --> 01:26:19,079
That's a fallacy. That's a fallacy. It doesn't it doesn't matter.

972
01:26:19,159 --> 01:26:27,840
Do Jews accept the Quran? So
you just use a fallacy Jews Jews,

973
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:32,079
except they don't accept the Quran.
You said, Jews don't accept that,

974
01:26:32,159 --> 01:26:39,520
so what that's a fallacy trinity?
So okay, exactly, so your argument

975
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:45,680
is irrelevant, I mean, your
argument, no idea what you're talking about?

976
01:26:45,079 --> 01:27:00,159
And then totally what's up? No, the person calling in doesn't have

977
01:27:00,199 --> 01:27:03,560
a point. I'm happy to walk
through all of the dozens of passages in

978
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:10,880
the Old Testament. They're they proved
the trinity. What's up? Man?

979
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:20,720
And then totally good, what's up? So I'm meaning orthodox here. What

980
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:26,199
I'm wondering is is this like an
open thing for a discussion right now or

981
01:27:26,279 --> 01:27:28,800
no? Well, I mean the
topics are listed. Is it the topic?

982
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:31,800
I'm not being mean, I'm just
saying, like, specific topics are

983
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:38,840
listed, Oh what are Okay,
I have a different question. So in

984
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:44,720
terms of valid sacraments and the path
of salvation, what do you what is

985
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:48,319
Easter without's perspective on like God knowing
the hearts of men like that. That's

986
01:27:48,399 --> 01:27:50,319
not the topic. Man, not
trying to be mean, but that's not

987
01:27:50,359 --> 01:27:54,880
the topic. Johnny, you tah, what's up? Guys? The topics

988
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,319
are listed. I said multiple times
that we've got to stick to the topics,

989
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:01,640
and and if you want to hold
three hour breakdown of the Trinity,

990
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:06,199
in the Old Testament. There you
go. So and saying that it's an

991
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:12,159
interpretation is irrelevant. Everybody has an
interpretation question is is it true or false?

992
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:17,479
Johnny, what's up? Can you
hear me? Yep? Yeah,

993
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:23,079
So first off, I just wanted
to say about the Exodus three six,

994
01:28:23,159 --> 01:28:28,319
three five that the Jews will worship, well, that were bound down to

995
01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:35,159
imagery, so on the curtains of
the tabernacle. So that's that's that's what's

996
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:43,319
say it again? So the passage
is Exodus thirty six, Uh huh,

997
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:51,560
And I would just find it.
Do they prostrate there and on the tabernacle?

998
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:58,920
Is that ever you're saying? Yes, So it's that on the tabernacle

999
01:28:59,119 --> 01:29:01,880
it had chair of pictures. Yeah, exactly right. Well, and the

1000
01:29:02,119 --> 01:29:06,359
the the arc has you know,
angels on top, so exactly. Yeah.

1001
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:11,119
You read the whole passage, is
you know? Right? So anyone

1002
01:29:11,159 --> 01:29:15,960
that's saying anything about icons that they've
got, they've got nothing to stand on

1003
01:29:15,079 --> 01:29:20,000
there as clear as day. Exactly, great point. Yeah, remember that,

1004
01:29:20,079 --> 01:29:27,560
the as he's pointing out, the
imagery of the curtains is iconographic.

1005
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:47,359
Exactly. Gamer, what's up,
man? Yeah, I'm mute. Gamer.

1006
01:29:47,439 --> 01:30:00,159
You want to I'm mute. What's
up? What? Oh? We

1007
01:30:00,279 --> 01:30:04,840
got a funny man? He was
being so funny? Is that everybody,

1008
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:08,720
there's no more questions, so it's
open for him. If anybody wants to

1009
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:16,159
talk about Protestantism, black Keeper,
Israelite theology, it's so called arianism as

1010
01:30:16,159 --> 01:30:23,079
in Joe's Witnesses type stuff, Unitarians, Muslims, et cetera. But you

1011
01:30:23,159 --> 01:30:27,239
got to make arguments, okay.
Saying that Jews don't accept that is not

1012
01:30:27,319 --> 01:30:30,079
an argument, has nothing to do
Jews don't accept the Quran, so what

1013
01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:35,520
it's not an argument. And if
somebody's interested, we can walk through the

1014
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:41,640
dozens and dozens of passages that prove
the trinity. But I don't think anybody's

1015
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:44,520
actually interested in that. So plus, we've already done an old talk on

1016
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:51,239
that right there. Nobody else,
no questions, no more heretechs, no

1017
01:30:51,319 --> 01:30:56,560
more lunatics. Everything's okay. Here, We've got Lenny. What's up,

1018
01:30:56,640 --> 01:31:10,920
Lenny? Lenny Svenson, mhm,
what's up, Lenny? You gotta unmute

1019
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:18,800
Lenny. Sorry, So I have
questioned regardding take. It's not the topic.

1020
01:31:19,399 --> 01:31:30,800
I specified multiple times that the topics
are listed. Gamer or did you

1021
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:38,960
want to say something. You're just
trying to be funny. What what's up?

1022
01:31:40,279 --> 01:31:48,640
M hm, Yeah, that's really
funny. Let's see Nate, what's

1023
01:31:48,680 --> 01:32:03,399
up? Nate? Kah m hm, Nate, what's up? I'm you

1024
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:25,640
man? You gotta immune Nate?
Yeah, okay, got it, I've

1025
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:30,079
retarded. Can you hear me?
Yeah? Okay. I had a couple

1026
01:32:30,079 --> 01:32:35,199
of I'm an Orthodox inquiry r have
a bunch of Protestants from They give me

1027
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:40,119
arguments, and I wanted to run
a couple by you and see what you

1028
01:32:40,159 --> 01:32:43,560
think if that's okay, if you're
mine with me, kind of arguments about

1029
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:48,560
what uh it could be anything from
the title to togos, to iconography,

1030
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,960
sol scripture or silopi they if you
want to talk about any of those in

1031
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:58,000
particular. See, your question is
about what people are Protestants are saying.

1032
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,079
That's what? Yeah, what Protestant
should argue against the Orthodox positions on those

1033
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:08,359
those subjects. Okay. Let's so, let's just start with the taya hokos

1034
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:12,960
argument that I heard that I thought
it was bad, but it sort of

1035
01:33:13,119 --> 01:33:15,239
was a unique one that I don't
exactly know how to address. And so

1036
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:26,359
obviously the argument for the title of
you cut out MANWI can her you?

1037
01:33:30,319 --> 01:33:34,640
Queen, queen of the something?
What's up? By the way, Isaiah

1038
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:40,359
forty nine, if you read that
famous Messianic passage A Light to the Gentiles

1039
01:33:40,359 --> 01:33:43,840
the whole chapter, Oh, the
nations worship him. He is. He

1040
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:47,399
is God's salvation for the end of
the earth, and the rulers of the

1041
01:33:47,399 --> 01:34:02,479
earth worship him. What's up,
queen? Hey, j hey, I

1042
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:09,239
just wanted to thank you so much
for bringing so many people to the body

1043
01:34:09,319 --> 01:34:13,159
of Christ. I just really am
so grateful for you. Thanks. I

1044
01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:15,640
appreciate you. Uh huh, thank
you. What's up? Is that it?

1045
01:34:18,239 --> 01:34:21,600
Now? You're just doing such a
great job. All right, Well,

1046
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:25,640
thank you for that. I appreciate
that. Anybody else anymore Muslims,

1047
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:30,520
Arians, any more, Sectarians,
cults, Mormons, Shob's Witnesses, Unitarians.

1048
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:35,520
By the way, another messianic prophecy. Come near and hear me.

1049
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:40,560
I've not spoken in secret. The
Lord God and his Spirit have sent me

1050
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:45,960
messianic prophecy. Once again. We
can keep going on and on about the

1051
01:34:45,039 --> 01:34:54,800
triad and the Messianic prophecies. Good
Isaiah forty four. We've got beacon.

1052
01:34:55,039 --> 01:34:58,039
We'll go to beacon here. In
a second, we do a little bit

1053
01:34:58,039 --> 01:35:08,039
of a little tour, a little
tour here. Now Israel, Jacob my

1054
01:35:08,079 --> 01:35:12,199
servant, Israel chosen, Jacob,
my servant, who have chosen? I

1055
01:35:12,279 --> 01:35:15,760
will pour out my spirit on your
descendants. Okay, that's what happens in

1056
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:21,159
Acts two Pentecost, Thus says the
King of Israel and his Redeemer. I

1057
01:35:21,199 --> 01:35:24,800
am the first and the last.
Besides me, there is no God.

1058
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:36,439
Thus says who Yahweh and his Redeemer. That's the triad. What what do

1059
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:43,319
you mean? Verse three, Holy
Spirit? Verse six, Yahweh and his

1060
01:35:43,399 --> 01:35:47,960
Redeemer. When you're aware of this, literally the Trinity is everywhere in the

1061
01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:51,840
Book of Isaiah, and you're like, how do I know that that's the

1062
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:58,760
way to hit tarbord it? Because
the New Testament multiple times cites these passages

1063
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:02,319
over on river. The New Testament
actually helps you in term these pasts where

1064
01:36:02,399 --> 01:36:05,520
Jesus and Luke for sights those passages
and says, this is about me.

1065
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:12,439
Does your in interpretation? And the
Muslims and the Jews don't accept that?

1066
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:30,159
Yes, so what it's a terrible
argument, Beacon. I'm mute, hey,

1067
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:33,439
j I'm a long while listener.
I had a question for you as

1068
01:36:33,439 --> 01:36:41,159
an inquirer. One of the Protestant
arguments about epistemology is that, and I've

1069
01:36:41,199 --> 01:36:44,199
heard our z make this a couple
of times, although he's not exactly a

1070
01:36:44,199 --> 01:36:53,119
scholastic, is that So the Protestants
just presupposed that the Bible is true basically,

1071
01:36:54,560 --> 01:37:00,960
and so if you believe the Bible
is God's word, then, like

1072
01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:04,439
with the Orthodox tradition, they based
it on, well, why is our

1073
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:10,039
church the one true church because Jesus
established it? How do you know that

1074
01:37:10,119 --> 01:37:15,159
Jesus Jesus established it because the Bible
says so? And why do we trust

1075
01:37:15,159 --> 01:37:19,199
the Bible because the Church compiled it? And so they say that's circular.

1076
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:26,880
So, vin I don't have a
problem with circular argumentation at a fundamental paradigm

1077
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,920
level, because we argue that everybody's
argumentation will fundamentally be circular. But I'm

1078
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:34,640
familiar with what you're saying. I've
seen Lutherans are using this argument now that

1079
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:41,399
they think that it's some gotcha that
we're engaging in circular argmentation. Yeah.

1080
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:45,960
The question, though, is not
is everybody's argument circular? But does your

1081
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:51,039
paradigm make sense of the circularity That's
why it's a bigger question of the paradigm

1082
01:37:51,039 --> 01:37:56,000
as a whole. And the Protestant
paradigm is inconsistent because on the one hand,

1083
01:37:56,079 --> 01:37:59,399
it relies on the tradition of the
Church and the Church fathers, but

1084
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:03,760
then on the other it tries to
sever the historical Church from any authority or

1085
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:10,079
from divine revelation itself. Right,
So whereas Paul says the Church is the

1086
01:38:10,079 --> 01:38:13,640
pillar and ground of truth and that
there is oral tradition, Protestants have to

1087
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:16,840
sever these things to try to divorce
the book and make the book kind of

1088
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:21,159
this self evident thing. Okay,
And so does that have to do with

1089
01:38:21,319 --> 01:38:26,039
your I think you said a coherentist
view of truth, where you think that

1090
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:31,800
your paradigm has a better explanation,
right. So, coherentism is a secular

1091
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:39,960
epistemology that just basically makes all beliefs
self evident or foundational. So the only

1092
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:45,079
difference between a foundationalist and a coherentist
is that a coherentist makes all the beliefs

1093
01:38:45,359 --> 01:38:49,600
foundational. So all we're saying is
that there's no self evident position that's going

1094
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:54,359
to resolve this. Everybody's going to
have to have at a fundamental level,

1095
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:58,560
something that is self referencing. And
so we would actually agree with a Protestant

1096
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:01,279
that at the most basic level,
well, God says I am that I

1097
01:39:01,319 --> 01:39:05,640
am right. God's self references himself, and Paul says that, for example,

1098
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:10,399
when he swore by himself, he
swore by the Greatest because he could

1099
01:39:10,399 --> 01:39:15,880
swear by no other higher authority.
Right, so Paul makes reference to this,

1100
01:39:15,279 --> 01:39:18,840
Who else could God swear by or
appeal to other than himself, because

1101
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:24,199
he is the highest authority. So
we would agree that God is the ultimate

1102
01:39:24,239 --> 01:39:29,439
highest authority. But where we're differing
is the question number one. The Protestant

1103
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:34,119
has no consistent justification for why he
accepts the canon that he accepts. And

1104
01:39:34,239 --> 01:39:43,399
secondly, the Protestant has no justification
for claiming that divine revelation is restricted to

1105
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:46,720
written texts. In fact, the
written texts themselves don't restrict it to written

1106
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:50,800
texts, so they're contradicting their own
authorities. And then beyond that, I

1107
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:55,720
would just say that the whole thing
is just a giant failed a historical project.

1108
01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:00,159
Okay, And then so if I
can reference and based on that point

1109
01:40:00,239 --> 01:40:04,560
something you said with father Deacon in
and I used the other day, you

1110
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:09,159
guys were talking about some paradox,
and it might have been mentioned by Lewis

1111
01:40:09,199 --> 01:40:13,760
Carroll, but it was the part
where somebody was calling him a word salad,

1112
01:40:14,199 --> 01:40:17,039
which was totally silly that he was
saying that. But you know,

1113
01:40:17,159 --> 01:40:23,199
I think the paradox was something along
the lines of you can have knowledge,

1114
01:40:23,239 --> 01:40:27,680
but it needs to have justification.
But the system you use to justify knowledge,

1115
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:30,319
I'm going to put you on the
type of knowledge needs justifying, and

1116
01:40:30,399 --> 01:40:34,159
so one doesn't justify two, and
two doesn't justify one or something. Well,

1117
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:43,199
Lewis Carroll's Tortoise and Achilles is the
point that if you affirm any proposition

1118
01:40:43,399 --> 01:40:48,520
like P therefore Q, you're also
by necessity, affirming another proposition about the

1119
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:54,399
proposition P therefore Q. And then
you're affirming a proposition about the proposition about

1120
01:40:54,439 --> 01:41:00,600
P therefore Q. This then entails
the affirmation of an infinite set oppositions,

1121
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:03,199
which Lewis Carroll is saying was impossible. So it's a kind of a version

1122
01:41:03,319 --> 01:41:12,760
of Zeno's paradox applied to logic.
That's the point that the Lewis Carroll dialogue

1123
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:16,079
is making. And Father Deacon and
I were just kind of speculating and discussing

1124
01:41:16,079 --> 01:41:21,279
the fact that it's not really a
problem for logic or anything. It's just

1125
01:41:21,359 --> 01:41:27,479
kind of pointing out that there's no
self evident, fixed set or easy set

1126
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:30,920
of things. You're kind of always
assuming a bunch of other things. That

1127
01:41:30,039 --> 01:41:34,560
was the relevance to to tag father
Deacon is here. If he wants to

1128
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:41,239
comment on more on what he what
he meant by his argumentation, I don't

1129
01:41:41,239 --> 01:41:43,399
know if you want to speak to
that, Father Deacon, if you're able,

1130
01:41:45,119 --> 01:41:49,600
you can. But does that make
sense? Uh? Yeah, I

1131
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,279
think I might have been thinking of
a different paradox, but that's okay.

1132
01:41:54,319 --> 01:41:58,880
I'll just go back and investigate it
later. Was what was the paradox you're

1133
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:02,119
thinking of? Well, it was, I mean I didn't articulate quite well

1134
01:42:02,119 --> 01:42:05,079
because I don't fully remember it.
But it had to do something with and

1135
01:42:05,119 --> 01:42:10,920
it might have started with a C
where if you believe one, then it

1136
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:13,800
doesn't then you need to go to
to to justify, and to go to

1137
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:15,119
to to justify, you need to
go back to one. Oh you're talking

1138
01:42:15,159 --> 01:42:24,039
about you're talking about David Chisholm's criterion
problem. Yeah, Roberts problem. Okay,

1139
01:42:24,119 --> 01:42:27,279
Yes, So I was going to
ask, how does the Orthodox epistemology

1140
01:42:27,319 --> 01:42:36,760
that you subscribe to solve that paradox. So the reason, the reason why

1141
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:46,399
it's actually a problem is because autonomous
man is trying to ground that in his

1142
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:51,000
own unjustified ideas. So this just
kind of gets at a meta level that

1143
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:59,439
well, look, once you kind
of acknowledge that you're having to provide this

1144
01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:04,520
justif case both number one, like
what is the extent of our justicable like

1145
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:11,520
what's the knowledge included? And then
what's the criteria autonomous man can't we don't

1146
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:18,600
ground our epistemology and made up epistemologies
and metaphysics and then kind of commit an

1147
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:24,680
epistemic bootstrapping. So the reason why
Orthodoxy gets out of that problem it's not

1148
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:34,920
a paradox is because God's not in
that position, and it's justified through the

1149
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:41,680
only thing that could ever qualify as
a justification. So God's not restricted to

1150
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:46,239
this dialectical tension where he has to
reduce right that he's limited to one and

1151
01:43:46,359 --> 01:43:50,399
cancel the one with us. He
is a justification. Do you see why

1152
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:54,760
that's not a problem for Orthodoxy but
it is for autonomous man. Yeah,

1153
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:58,640
if you don't have God as this
sort of placeholder within the worldview. And

1154
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:01,000
I'm not restricting God to placeholder.
I'm just saying that in the example,

1155
01:44:02,199 --> 01:44:09,199
you know, God is the ultimate
justify er, the ultimate self referencing authority.

1156
01:44:09,239 --> 01:44:12,079
But here as you can see as
father. As Deacon noted, and

1157
01:44:12,079 --> 01:44:15,039
by the way, I said,
David, he corrected me, it's roderick

1158
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:19,319
if I claim to know right First, First of all, the question is

1159
01:44:19,399 --> 01:44:21,840
what is the extent of our knowledge? And what do we know? And

1160
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:25,680
then I say, well, what's
the criterion by which we have a theory

1161
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:30,920
of knowledge? If I can't either
way, I go for to have the

1162
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:33,439
first proposition, I need the second
one. I need to have the criteria.

1163
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:35,560
But if I claim to know the
criteria, then I'm claiming to have

1164
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:40,039
knowledge, which was the first question. So it's kind of a dilemma.

1165
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:43,960
And there's other ways to catch this
out to other elements of this. But

1166
01:44:44,399 --> 01:44:47,640
does that make sense how everybody would
be kind of forced to this to this

1167
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:51,399
problem. It's a problem that really
nobody can escape. And the point is

1168
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:58,960
that if you begin with human autonomous
reasoning, it's an insoluble problem. But

1169
01:44:59,079 --> 01:45:02,680
if you're a lever and divine revelation. It's not a problem for that type

1170
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:11,600
of a system, and it's not
a paradox in so far as saying therefore

1171
01:45:12,279 --> 01:45:17,159
people can't know. The issues that
I bring up is like Russ Manning says,

1172
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:23,279
autonomous man has no justification for the
justification criteria. And then when you

1173
01:45:23,359 --> 01:45:30,479
make these second order statements that but
I do know knowledge exists or this counts

1174
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:34,920
as knowledge, you end up that's
where the paradox is. So you might

1175
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:41,279
have knowledge, but you can never
actually make those statements without bootstrapping and be

1176
01:45:41,399 --> 01:45:45,920
like, well, if everything I
made up is true, or if this

1177
01:45:45,079 --> 01:45:50,159
actually is knowledge, I do have
knowledge, then obviously my statements about them

1178
01:45:50,159 --> 01:45:56,680
being knowledge is knowledge. See that's
a problem. Obviously God's not that in

1179
01:45:56,760 --> 01:46:00,279
that problem. All right, not
trying to be rude. We're going to

1180
01:46:00,359 --> 01:46:04,800
move on though, because today's topic
wasn't tag topics are Protestantism, Black Heber,

1181
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:11,560
Israelites, Muslims, Arians, Nate. Did you want to talk again?

1182
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:24,880
Mormons? We have nobody ever comes
to argue or defend Mormonism. All

1183
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:29,239
right, Hello, Yeah, what's
up? Okay, I think my phone

1184
01:46:29,279 --> 01:46:32,239
is best enough. Last point.
Yeah, the point I was trying to

1185
01:46:32,239 --> 01:46:38,399
get to was this friend of mine
who is like looking at Anglicanism or some

1186
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:42,920
type thing. He was saying that
the title say of Tokos shouldn't be used

1187
01:46:43,239 --> 01:46:47,119
in favor of Krystal Tokos, and
his reasoning was it's not like an historian

1188
01:46:47,199 --> 01:46:53,680
reasoning, but he was saying that
because the word God or the esks of

1189
01:46:53,760 --> 01:47:00,399
God is split between three persons,
and essence is not split's totally yeah,

1190
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:03,479
yeah, yeah, not split,
but it's sharing among free people. There's

1191
01:47:03,479 --> 01:47:10,520
three hypostatus that therefore sixty six percent
of the time you're actually referring to somebody

1192
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:13,840
who was not born by Mary when
you reference God. No, this is

1193
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:17,479
just a this is misunderstanding of monarchical
trinitarianism. So they need to go.

1194
01:47:17,640 --> 01:47:20,640
You need to go, and they
need to go. Watch all the talks

1195
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:28,079
from doctor Bo Branson explaining monarchical trinitarianism. That the word God is not primarily

1196
01:47:28,079 --> 01:47:30,920
ever picking out the divine essence.
Sometimes it can be, but the word

1197
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:35,520
God picks out first of all the
person of the Father. There's one God

1198
01:47:35,640 --> 01:47:41,800
because we have one Father. As
Paul and James say, God can also

1199
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:45,359
pick out the hypostasis of the Sun
and the hypostasis of the spirit. It

1200
01:47:45,359 --> 01:47:49,840
can also pick out a divine energy. In fact, the Cappadocian and argument

1201
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:54,840
of the Palmit Synods is that the
word God actually is also picking out an

1202
01:47:54,960 --> 01:47:59,119
energy. Theos is an energy.
It's not a name for the essence,

1203
01:47:59,159 --> 01:48:02,720
because the Roman Catholic opponents of the
Polemite cynas are saying that God is a

1204
01:48:02,840 --> 01:48:06,560
name of the divine essence, so
they countered it by saying, no,

1205
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:11,920
it's actually a name that refers to
a divine energy, because that's how God

1206
01:48:12,039 --> 01:48:16,079
is revealed to us as Lord or
as Theos. So all the terms,

1207
01:48:16,119 --> 01:48:20,319
all these predicates can be used in
different ways to pick out different things.

1208
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:25,439
And sometimes we can say that there's
one God because there's one divine essence or

1209
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:29,159
nature. That's also said i think
by John Damascus and Palamas as well.

1210
01:48:29,359 --> 01:48:33,039
But typically it's not picking out or
identifying, or it's not an isomorphic,

1211
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:40,800
reductible, reductionist definition the word God. And this is actually the argument Muslims

1212
01:48:40,840 --> 01:48:45,000
make right. Muslims argue that God
is just a reference to Allah and his

1213
01:48:45,880 --> 01:48:50,239
unity. And then as soon as
you start talking about Allah's distinction from his

1214
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:56,479
attributes and are the attributes of assay, do they possess a siety? Their

1215
01:48:56,479 --> 01:49:00,199
whole position collapses. So you know, today's topics. Again, I'm not

1216
01:49:00,199 --> 01:49:04,039
trying to be rude, but like
it has to be on the topics Protestantism,

1217
01:49:04,199 --> 01:49:12,520
Arianism, Muslims, Hebrew Israelites,
Hebrew Roots, Unitarianism, Job's witnesses,

1218
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:17,680
let's see Renzo. If it's not
on the topic, we're gonna move

1219
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:28,039
on. Sorry. Black Hebers are
like Bhi. So I want to ask

1220
01:49:28,079 --> 01:49:30,600
you a question of how to refute
this Muslim argument that you know, three

1221
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:35,880
distinct persons is polytheism because you know, I'm not knowledgeable metaphysics like philosophy,

1222
01:49:35,960 --> 01:49:40,520
So how could I refute this exactly? Yeah, So go watch doctor Bo

1223
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:46,680
Branson's lectures on monarchical trinitarianism. They're
at his website. And also because that's

1224
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:50,399
key to refuting a lot of the
arguments that Muslims will make from the scriptures

1225
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:55,279
the Father is greater than I,
et cetera. But you're gonna have to

1226
01:49:55,359 --> 01:49:59,560
learn some metaphysics if you want to
refute Islam, because you're gonna need to

1227
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:01,760
be able to say, like doctor
Bo Branson does in the Jake debate.

1228
01:50:02,319 --> 01:50:08,920
Well, if divinity is characterized essentially
by a saiity. Then the attributes in

1229
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:12,840
themselves don't possess a saiety. Then
the attributes aren't fully divine. And then

1230
01:50:13,159 --> 01:50:16,439
when he asked them that, Jake
crumbles, Adrian says, for three dollars,

1231
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:19,880
Jay, I ordered your read book
last week. I'm anticipating its arrival.

1232
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:24,880
Okay, so usually orders take one
to two weeks. Does it contain

1233
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:30,159
arguments against oneness pentecostal? I don't
think I actually address modalism really. I

1234
01:50:30,159 --> 01:50:36,399
mean, all the arguments against absolute
divine simplicity would, by extension, refute

1235
01:50:36,439 --> 01:50:40,720
modalism. Have you read Way of
a Pilgrim? I have. I read

1236
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:44,560
it many years ago in two thousand
and seven. Have you read Pilgrim Continues?

1237
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:47,720
I have not. What do you
think about it? I remember liking

1238
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:51,039
it back at the time. I
don't honestly remember much about it, since

1239
01:50:51,079 --> 01:50:56,359
it was so long ago that I
read it. Fart Huffy, ten dollars.

1240
01:50:56,760 --> 01:51:00,479
Alex the Atheist had some old gnostic
witch on show, and it shows

1241
01:51:00,479 --> 01:51:04,800
how they want anything but Christ.
Are you talking about Alex O'Connor. Yeah,

1242
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:09,119
I mean they'll have anybody like people
every day, somebody says, why

1243
01:51:09,119 --> 01:51:13,039
don't you debate Alex O'Connor man.
We've reached out and asked and tweeted at

1244
01:51:13,079 --> 01:51:15,319
these people, I don't know how
many times, for how many years.

1245
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:20,960
So just look all the people that
you ask me to debate, We've already

1246
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:26,800
debated or I've reached out to ask
them. So it's just I'm not mad.

1247
01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:30,239
I'm just it's kind of annoying when
you going to debate destiny, when

1248
01:51:30,279 --> 01:51:35,199
you going to debate so and so, uh, anybody else. I'm kind

1249
01:51:35,199 --> 01:51:40,000
of winding down. We're getting to
the end of the evening. We had

1250
01:51:40,039 --> 01:51:43,800
a few interesting uh people pop on. We didn't really get any Mormons,

1251
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:46,359
we didn't really get any Arians,
whorse witnesses. We had one Muslim guy

1252
01:51:46,359 --> 01:51:51,880
who made two terrible fallacies in a
row, so that didn't go anywhere.

1253
01:51:53,279 --> 01:51:56,479
We had a fake Thomas pretending to
be a real Macaltholic who wasn't That was

1254
01:51:56,520 --> 01:52:04,960
weird. Nobody else, nobody,
All right, guys out here on the

1255
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:08,760
YouTube, thank you. We had
a great time tonight. I think we

1256
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:12,600
got right out around one thousand,
so it's nice to still be pulling a

1257
01:52:13,279 --> 01:52:15,680
thousand. We've got about nine hundred
and fifty one thousand. Well will you

1258
01:52:15,680 --> 01:52:19,960
debate, i'llah, yeah, that's
what I'm talking about. That's what I'm

1259
01:52:20,039 --> 01:52:27,560
tom Bob, tom Bob, Tom
Bob. I want to show off something

1260
01:52:27,720 --> 01:52:30,520
that we're all proud of. I
got a browser here. This is Jay

1261
01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:38,199
Dyers, much vaunted, much sought
after philosophy one oh one. Now he

1262
01:52:38,359 --> 01:52:40,960
just got this page up. We
are just testing it out. You guys

1263
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:43,560
are some of the first people in
the world to see it. I want

1264
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:45,560
to say, for my part,
it's not philosophy want to one. I

1265
01:52:45,560 --> 01:52:51,279
think this is as mistitling. I
really think is as like philosophy unleashed because

1266
01:52:51,279 --> 01:52:55,880
a philosophy want on one course,
they give you kind of some useless information

1267
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:59,880
that you can't make sense of.
Jay actually lays out over twelve weeks,

1268
01:53:00,239 --> 01:53:03,279
dozens and dozens of hours put into
just the presentation of this, let alone

1269
01:53:03,319 --> 01:53:06,680
the hundreds and thousands of hours of
research that it takes to have a coherent

1270
01:53:08,159 --> 01:53:12,800
evolution and history of the origins of
philosophy, the uses of philosophy, the

1271
01:53:12,840 --> 01:53:16,359
different ways to look at it over
time, and how that has been brought

1272
01:53:16,399 --> 01:53:20,680
about to what we have today,
which is almost an absence of philosophy on

1273
01:53:21,199 --> 01:53:28,000
the objective, logic and reason side
in an overabundance of woke philosophy that is

1274
01:53:28,039 --> 01:53:30,479
irrational, is made up day by
day as people are like I think we

1275
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:33,880
should bring racism back, and then
here's a justification, and then it gets

1276
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:38,119
wokeified and spread out, and then
all of a sudden you have a bunch

1277
01:53:38,199 --> 01:53:42,960
of communist socialist ideas where you become
the property in action. You need to

1278
01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:45,600
be able to stand on your own
ground. It helps to have a foundation

1279
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:49,239
in philosophy because it's a method define
truth when you get down to it.

1280
01:53:49,239 --> 01:53:54,399
Philosophy is there because you love truth
enough to go and learn how to find

1281
01:53:54,439 --> 01:53:58,359
it, because it's valuable. So
if you're interested in things like that,

1282
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:01,600
there is the landing. We'll link
it up into notes. It is a

1283
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:04,840
longer once, so we'll get a
shorter URL for this. I'm sure Jay

1284
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:08,119
has a link on his page.
I just wanted to show it off.

1285
01:54:08,119 --> 01:54:11,279
Now you know what exists, you
can go look for it and see why

1286
01:54:11,319 --> 01:54:15,279
this is not your father's philosophy.
Right, So well done. I'm proud

1287
01:54:15,279 --> 01:54:19,000
of everyone who helped to produce and
edit the course, and of course Jay

1288
01:54:19,039 --> 01:54:25,319
did a flawless job in presenting the
course over those twelve weeks, and he's

1289
01:54:25,319 --> 01:54:28,680
a jugger nut. He's another guy
just like John Bush, in action all

1290
01:54:28,720 --> 01:54:31,680
the time, doing something productive,
like very little wasted time in his week,

1291
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:35,479
those one hundred and sixty eight hours
of being harnessed very well. I

1292
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:39,760
want to show off something that we're
all proud of. I got a browser

1293
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:45,640
here. This is Jay Dyers,
much vaunted, much sought after philosophy one

1294
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:49,479
oh one. Now he just got
this page up. We are just testing

1295
01:54:49,479 --> 01:54:51,239
it out. You guys are some
of the first people in the world to

1296
01:54:51,239 --> 01:54:55,840
see you. I'm going to put
you on something crazy real quick. Most

1297
01:54:55,840 --> 01:55:00,399
of these Zoomer Jim bros Are consuming
macro guzzling synthetic dies and synthetic sweeteners on

1298
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:04,560
the daily. They don't even know
it. Goofy af. There's nothing great

1299
01:55:04,600 --> 01:55:09,399
about that. Do not listen any
further unless you are an Alpha or Sigma

1300
01:55:09,439 --> 01:55:13,680
male. This is important and there
could be consequences. There's a new certified

1301
01:55:13,720 --> 01:55:17,560
Sigma male pre workout powder for Sigmas
only. It is guaranteed to empower you

1302
01:55:17,640 --> 01:55:23,279
to dominate your co workers, fire
your boss, aggressively, gamble, or

1303
01:55:23,319 --> 01:55:28,600
invade a small village. Chad Mode
stands out from the crowd by excluding artificial

1304
01:55:28,640 --> 01:55:33,039
flavors, preservatives, sweeteners, and
dyes. We've even avoided so called natural

1305
01:55:33,079 --> 01:55:39,039
flavors which are actually not natural at
all, ensuring a clean and effective formula.

1306
01:55:39,399 --> 01:55:44,760
Experience the pure goodness of chad Mode. Colored with organic blue spirolina extract,

1307
01:55:45,039 --> 01:55:49,199
organic lemon cherry, and organic maple
crystals. Forget synthetic caffeine made in

1308
01:55:49,239 --> 01:55:55,479
a sketchy Chinese lab. Embrace the
natural power of organic green coffee bean extract

1309
01:55:55,760 --> 01:56:00,319
which will get your mind going and
pump you up to the max. Chad

1310
01:56:00,319 --> 01:56:04,279
Mode is made in America with all
clean ingredients, the first clean pre workout

1311
01:56:04,359 --> 01:56:10,079
of its kind. Why are these
people adding synthetic sweeteners to every single pre

1312
01:56:10,199 --> 01:56:15,399
workout when there are many studied downsides
to consuming nasty fake sucralose. Each dose

1313
01:56:15,399 --> 01:56:17,880
of chad Mode contains the kick of
a cup and a half of coffee,

1314
01:56:18,199 --> 01:56:24,600
delivering a surge of energy alongside essential
vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and

1315
01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:29,640
herbal extracts. Chad Mode will allow
you to fire your boss and dominate anyone

1316
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:33,479
who opposes you. Chad Mode will
make you more dominant in your daily life,

1317
01:56:33,640 --> 01:56:39,239
so proceed with caution. It's as
simple as mixing one or two scoops

1318
01:56:39,279 --> 01:56:43,720
of our fine powder into water or
juice, providing you with a delicious,

1319
01:56:43,960 --> 01:56:48,119
energizing beverage featuring a burst of sweet, organic fruit flavor. Chad Mode will

1320
01:56:48,159 --> 01:56:51,760
give you the extra edge you desperately
crave. Don't miss out. Secure your

1321
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:57,680
supply of chad Mode on TikTok shop
with a limited time massive discount Elevate