WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:08.800 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:13.679 podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof 3 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:18.399 Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three thirty two. Cinema is a matter of what's 4 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.960 in the frame and what's out. Now, more than ever, we need 5 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:26.679 to talk to each other, to listen to each other and understand how we 6 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:31.120 see the world, and cinema is the best medium for doing this. Martin 7 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:36.479 Scorsese broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be 8 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:41.479 working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the 9 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:45.960 craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. 10 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:51.520 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of 11 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:56.039 the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Now, 12 00:00:56.079 --> 00:01:00.799 today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now, unlike other script 13 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:07.760 coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are 14 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:11.159 in the goals of the project you are, so we actually break it down 15 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:15.359 by three categories. Micro budget, indie, film market and studio film. 16 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.239 There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies 17 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.599 when your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars, and 18 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:26.519 we wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers have worked 19 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.079 with Marvel Studios, CIA, WM E, NBC, HBO, Disney, 20 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.159 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So 21 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:41.159 if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on 22 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:47.959 over to cover my screenplay dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host Jason 23 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:53.040 Buff. Thanks for joining us here today. My guest is Corey Mandel. 24 00:01:53.640 --> 00:02:00.280 Corey is an award winning playwright and screenwriter who has written projects for Ley, 25 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:05.400 Scott, Wolfgane Peterson, Harrison, Ford, Warner Brothers, Universal, twentieth 26 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:09.400 Century Fox, you name it, he's written it for you. I'm really 27 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:15.000 excited to talk about to talk with Corey today because he is writing at the 28 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:19.800 studio level and we really even though this is indie film, it's really important 29 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.280 to know what it's like writing at that level and how things work, uh, 30 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:27.840 you know, things like getting an agent, the importance of having a 31 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.520 manager things like that, and you know, it's it's it's really talking about 32 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.520 something that I didn't know a whole lot about, even though you know, 33 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:38.319 i'm as many of you, I'm also a screenwriter aspiring screenwriter, so it's 34 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:44.879 it's good to know even though my aspirations are more towards indie film. Anyway, 35 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:47.000 I learned a lot from from Corey and I think he's actually a really 36 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:51.759 good teacher as well. He teaches a workshop. If you go to Corey 37 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:58.759 Mandel dot net and that's Mandel with two l's, he's got a workshop there, 38 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.000 and I highly you know, I think he's got some some great things 39 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:06.120 to teach. I think you should definitely check out his classes. And he's 40 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.599 had a lot of success stories, so check that out. Here we go, 41 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:12.120 here's my interview with Korey Mandel. Well, I guess the first thing 42 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.520 we should start out with for people who are not familiar with you and your 43 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:20.360 your side and your work, if you wouldn't mind just giving us a little 44 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:24.840 bit of background in your career as a screenwriter. Sure, so I went 45 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:32.159 to you see a film school and listen back in late nineties, and it 46 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:37.639 was really fortunate to launch my career by having really Scott hired me to write 47 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:42.439 Metropolis. I was still in film school. It was just a need to 48 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.960 be in a room with herdy. Scott haven't hire me, flew me to 49 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.800 London, first time I'd ever flown the first class, the first time the 50 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:54.560 news first class existed. You know's moving on like top from the noodles on 51 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.719 a good day. And so really committed to making Metropolis and it was a 52 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:05.800 front page variety and ultimately didn't get made, which is a whole long story. 53 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:12.000 But but you mentioned me, and he mentioned the script in very positive 54 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.600 way on the front page variety. So if you're looking to launch your career, 55 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.680 having your discussed very nice things about you and your scripts on a front 56 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:26.879 page variety not a right. So let's step one DWAs you have that with 57 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:31.879 step on my Mom's day. And so then I became you know, the 58 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:38.199 super hot writers in the town for seven minutes. And and I started next 59 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:43.399 project with the Wolf Peterson who was just finished Air Force one, and I 60 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.319 did a project for him. I did a project for working title, so 61 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:53.680 I basically ended up doing over eleven years. I did nineteen for hire, 62 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:58.519 a studio project, and you know, for some of your listeners who maybe 63 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.680 are a little new to the studio game. Basically, what that means is 64 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:08.199 I would get hired I have an original idea that pictures the studios, they 65 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.439 buy the idea, they hired me to write it, or what was more 66 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.160 often the case, they had a project, they had a writer or a 67 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:19.199 couple of writers, weren't hardly excited about where it was going, so they 68 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:26.759 would hire me to come in and rewrite it. I would also sometimes get 69 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:32.439 hired to adapt novels or graphic novels, and then occasionally I would do production 70 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:35.560 rewrite, where you're actually on set when they're making a movie. You don't 71 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:42.600 get credit, but you get a really nice paycheck and you are rewriting structure 72 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:48.519 or comedy or characters on set. So that's basically for someone who's going to 73 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:53.600 work in the future film business under assignment, that's kind of a range of 74 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:59.519 the kinds of things you do. Now, what was the process before you 75 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.959 got that project with Ridley Scott? I mean, how how did you even 76 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:08.839 get into that world? Yeah, that's a great question. So what has 77 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:16.240 happened is I had written the script at when I was at ust LA, 78 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:24.279 and one of my teachers was running development for Meg Ryan. And again this 79 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:29.079 is like ninety eight and Meg Ryan is a big star and written the script, 80 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:35.079 and I somehow convinced the her name's Kathy Raban to take a look at 81 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:38.920 the script, and she read it and she really responded to it, and 82 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:42.519 she talked to Meg when about it, and Meg really responded to it. 83 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.439 Meg wanted to do it. So then you get the phone call that everybody 84 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.399 wants, which is you know, Kathy Rayven called me and said, Meg 85 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:55.199 Ryan, you know, very potentially interested in your project. Who's your agent? 86 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.720 And of course I said, I don't have an agent, and then 87 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:00.639 she said, would you for me to help you get an agent? And 88 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:04.079 then like, let me think about that. Yeah, I would like that. 89 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:09.480 And you know, the thing is the key to get in an agent, 90 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.959 and it's easier said than done. Is not for you to be chasing 91 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.120 the agent, for the agent to be chasing you. Now, probably the 92 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.240 easiest way to get an agent to chase you is to write something and gets 93 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:27.800 a major piece of chaleng attached. Again, easier says than done. I 94 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:33.680 understand that. So in that situation, I literally have THEA and William Morris 95 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:40.040 and I see him like pomp agent, like clearing their schedule to meet with 96 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.959 me. So I did have over the next couple of days, and I 97 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.560 chose to go with ICM with an agent named Dan Terrence, who's awesome and 98 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.319 so, you know, to put in a perspective Dan Terrence at this time, 99 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:56.279 she represents KLi Cory, who when they get an award for Selma Louise, 100 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:59.439 she represents you know, it's Foreman, you know, and then little 101 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.319 me a full intimidating that it was really exciting, and then you make a 102 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:11.439 long story short somewhat short, uh hight. So Meg Ryan is attacked. 103 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.199 Now we have directors fighting for the project. We suddenly have studios fighting for 104 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:18.680 the project, Like this is going to be a big script, so I'm 105 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:22.160 going to make all whole bits of money, pay atomic student loans, get 106 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:28.519 a car. Life is good. And then a movie comes out that's in 107 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:33.080 the same genre and somewhat similar but really not that similar, but somewhat similar, 108 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.519 and it tanks the tanks at the box office, and suddenly mc ryan 109 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.799 or someone on our team's asides, maybe I don't want to do this, 110 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.080 And then suddenly the mc ryan says that suddenly the directors are like, well, 111 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.919 maybe I don't want to do this, And then if the studios are 112 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.960 like, well maybe I know want and I remember to help the cards exactly. 113 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.559 And the one thing I'll say for your listeners and I I'm sure that 114 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.399 you have people will sten to be found through this, and you also people 115 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.519 who are kind of new to the game and everyone in between. I'll just 116 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.559 say that the experience I just went through. I constantly get calls from students 117 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.759 and writers I work with who goes to the same thing as I do. 118 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:18.279 Get as close as you can without it actually happening, and you feel potentially 119 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.840 like to something wrong with you or your curse. And the thing is, 120 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.440 when you start to talk to a lot for writers, you realize it's a 121 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:31.279 pretty typical experience. And so so at the end of the day it was 122 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:33.840 not going to sell, which was crushing, But you know, I had 123 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.720 a writing example, I had an agent, and I think most importantly I 124 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:43.399 had credibility because the script I had attracted a major star, and so that 125 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:48.799 gives your credibility. So my agent says, you have any ideas for you 126 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.639 know, a kitch, We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. 127 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:01.279 And now back to the show, because now you have this credibility, 128 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.919 Let's see if we can't sell a pitch. And I said, yeah, 129 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.480 this is an idea I've always loved and so I wanted by her and she 130 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:11.320 said, yeah, I think that can have traction in the market place. 131 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:15.279 And then she pulled out you know, have a paper and a pen. 132 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:18.840 She was, Okay, let's do the fun part. Let's make our dream 133 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.399 list. If you could sell this pitch and work with anyone at all, 134 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.240 who would it be? And the very first thing I said, Scott, 135 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.559 and she said great to a great choice. Who else is We made our 136 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.399 list with like major a list and it's sort of like, okay, that's 137 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.840 our dream list. Now let's start making a list of maybe one more practical 138 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:43.639 folks in case the dream list as a kind of and but I got we 139 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.120 went, but she was start with her the Scott, since that was your 140 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.879 number one choice. I went there and that was the development executive. They 141 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:54.679 really responded to the pitch. They brought me into producing partner at the time, 142 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.840 Mimi. She responded to the pitch and literally two weeks later and it 143 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:03.159 was a little embarrassing, but I get a call and I've been up really 144 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.200 late and I'm like half to sleep on the phone where you think it's ten 145 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.120 thirty and my agent says, we're leasing challenge and you'd like to hear your 146 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:16.279 pitch at eleven thirty. And it's like when it take me forty five minutes 147 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.080 to get there and after shower and shave and all that. So I said, 148 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.600 oh, that's exciting, but can I go in later today, like 149 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.879 at three? And there's a long pause where I'm sure my agents think, 150 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.559 team, why do I find this person? And then very nicely, very 151 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.919 nicely, she says, Corey release in town if he'd like to hear your 152 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.799 pitch at eleven o'clock. In there, I went, oh, of course, 153 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.080 yes, I will be either. And I don't know how, but 154 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:48.000 it really worked in my favorite Cason, because I wasn't nervous. I was 155 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.720 everything just to get there. I'm literally in a room pitching it really before 156 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.840 I think type I could process that that's through the sky because he was a 157 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.440 big vera like fill it and of course yeah, any boded in the earth. 158 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:03.399 So in the room he said, if you don't mind, I'd like 159 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.360 to buy this and I'd like to flow you to London and work with you 160 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.919 on the structure and write it, you know, and it's like, welly, 161 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:16.799 let me check my schedule. I work. Yeah, our people can 162 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.639 talk and we'll figure it out. Yeah, so let me ask you can 163 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.519 I can? I just pause on that for one second, and I want 164 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:26.600 to make sure we talk about a lot of different things. But one thing 165 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.320 that we're talking about right now is the pitch. Ya, So is there 166 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.240 any sort of I mean you're in your car, you're driving up, You're 167 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:37.120 going to see you know a legend. I mean you have to be nervous. 168 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.279 How what does what do you do to like make it all work out? 169 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.600 I mean, what's your pitch? I mean, how's it worked? 170 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.320 You're going to tell you to How do you work prepare theselves for a picture 171 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.679 and not get nervous? Or is me the actual? How do you? 172 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.840 Yeah? I mean what what is what? What do you say? I 173 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.320 mean? How how do you take your screenplay and put it? I mean 174 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:01.559 what is that like a five minute six minute pitch to do? Or right? 175 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:05.240 So this is not a stream place. So you know, when people 176 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.200 are pitching, they have a risk. So generally, if you have an 177 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.120 idea. You've got two avenues, right. You can spec it, which 178 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.279 is to write the script on back and then that's the thing that would be 179 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.519 shown to people, the actual script. Or you can pitch it where you 180 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.480 haven't written it yet, you have an idea. You're talking people through the 181 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.480 through the idea, and then if they like it and they believe in you 182 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.080 as a writer, they'll buy the pitch and then they'll hire you the writer. 183 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.679 Generally speaking, or those you know listeners who are kind of new to 184 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:39.159 the game, you don't get invited to pitch these days unless you have credibility. 185 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.039 So, and it's even more so than when I was pretty here, 186 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.600 and so generally they're only going to listen to a pitch and buy a pitch 187 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:52.679 from a writer that they are extremely confident can deliver on the actual script. 188 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.840 So for newer writers, you're not pitching these days. You're specting. You 189 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.360 want to prove not just that you have a great idea, but you could 190 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.480 execute on it. So yeah, So what had happened is I went in 191 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.759 there and it looked like a forty five minute pitch and it was basically giving 192 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:13.960 him the characters and the world and the story and everything that happens and trying 193 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.919 to do it in a wom that was most engaging as possible. And then 194 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.519 he asked me lots of questions and we had a connversation and we were really 195 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.399 talking through everything. I was there for a couple of hours, and at 196 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:28.039 the end of it, you know, he had really had a really clear 197 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.840 vision of what my vision was and what I was going to go and write, 198 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.360 and he says, yeah, So then he lost the pitch, so 199 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.039 I get a certain amount of money for that. And then also they hired 200 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.440 me to write it, so I get money for that. So it's basically 201 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:48.600 like you have an idea for a script and before you write it, you 202 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.720 sort of vent it to make sure there's a market for it, and if 203 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.240 someone's interested enough, they'll buying the idea, and they hired you to write 204 00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:01.120 the script. And that's why common in TV, and it happens in features, 205 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.240 but generally is only you're going to happen for a writer. You have 206 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:11.440 a certain level of credibility, okay, And what is the now for writers 207 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:16.480 who are trying to understand what the relationship is with you and your agent. 208 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:18.919 Your agent is the one that got you in the room there in the first 209 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:24.120 place. Right, Yeah, so agents are your salesforce. Agents are going 210 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.360 to sell your script and or they're going to get you in the right rooms 211 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.639 with the right people for pitches or for writing assignment. So that was the 212 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:39.240 other thing is let's say that you write a script and it goes out in 213 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.919 the market place and everybody loves the script. They think you are a fresh, 214 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:46.080 original voice, great characters, great structure, but nobody buys the script. 215 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.600 It's just it's not sitting what they're looking to buy. But everyone's like 216 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.399 as a great stress. So at that point, you know the agent will 217 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.399 send you on a round of meeting And that was around The meetings could be 218 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:03.320 twenty the thirty. And there's kind of three kinds of meetings. They are 219 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.639 all going to be happening. So one I've called a general relationship where someone's 220 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:12.559 registr up and they're blown away by it. They're not looking to hire a 221 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.120 writer for a project. They're not really looking to buy a bitch. There's 222 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.519 no there's no money that's going to come out of this beauty. But it's 223 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.120 a relationships. They'll be meeting. They just really love your script and your 224 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:29.799 writing. They want to get to know you. They trying to figure out, 225 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:32.679 you know, if you're the kind of person they want to work with, 226 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.480 if you're crazy or not. There's a lot of crazy writers out there, 227 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.519 and they just sort of, what are you interested in? And let 228 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.480 me tell you the kinds of things that we're interested in, because down the 229 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:47.120 road they truly would like to find a way to work with you. And 230 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:51.639 some writers get disappointment because they'll pick that meeting and they realize, somewhere here 231 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.440 in meeting, I'm not going to get hired. There's no money that's going 232 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:59.559 to come out of this. And those writers are they don't set relationships are 233 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:03.480 really because you know, maybe six months later that person is looking to hire 234 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:07.640 someone. The fact that that you had a really good meeting with them and 235 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.519 they really want to work with you, that could lead to a job. 236 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.200 So so you write a script, everybody loves it, it doesn't sell. 237 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:19.039 You go on around the meetings and one type of meeting is this relationship building 238 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:25.519 meeting. Another meeting could be they really loved your script. If you have 239 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:27.480 the right idea, they buy a pitch from you and they would help you 240 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:30.799 develop it. So that's a meeting where you're going in and they're like, 241 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:36.119 hey, what ideas do you have in your pitching? That's what that's what 242 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:40.119 the meeting it was because the Scott Another kind of meeting could be we loved 243 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:45.079 your script, couldn't buy it, but we have we have the rights of 244 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.279 the scraphic novel, or we have the rights of this article, or we 245 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:51.920 have an idea that we've been kicked in around internally, or we have a 246 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:56.400 script that somebody wrote. We want a pretty big rewrite and we want to 247 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.440 make it darker, or we want to make it we want to make the 248 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.000 characters kind of a character or whatever. And you seem like you could be 249 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.720 a good person for that. And so then what happens is you're basically being 250 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.039 invited to audition. It's like an after audition. So then if at the 251 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:12.559 script, you'll read it and you'll come back in and you'll say, this 252 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.319 is what I would this is how I would change it, this is my 253 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.960 addition for it, and they're other writers do this as well, and then 254 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:25.640 they're going to pick the writer who they vision that they like the most, 255 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:29.720 or if it's an original idea that they have or an article saying thing you're 256 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:32.319 going to go home, you're going to come back in and you're going to 257 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.079 pitch what you would do with this idea or what you would do with this 258 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:44.400 article. And you're generally competing against other writers. So what the agent says 259 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:48.039 is they're going to try to sell your script. Often that means packaging, 260 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:52.559 putting elements, you know, to make the more exciting. They can go 261 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.799 out and there's a script with a star, script with a director, and 262 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.759 concurrent to that, they're going to send you on meetings. And again, 263 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.000 these meetings could be a relationship building, they could be you pitching or original 264 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.000 ideas. It could be them looking to hire a writer. And you go 265 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:14.640 through a round of those and maybe somewhere along the way you'll launch your career. 266 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.039 You'll sell a pitch, they'll get hired to write something, your script 267 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.000 will actually sell. All of that's possible. It's also very possible at the 268 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:25.720 end of that none of that happens. You met a lot of people, 269 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:27.319 you've got a lot of great relationship, but at the end of the day, 270 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:30.160 you didn't get a job out of it. And then what you do 271 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:34.599 is you're going to have to give your agent another really great script and you're 272 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:41.400 going to go through a second cycle, and you've got a better chances of 273 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.400 lunching a career at the second time around and the first time because you have 274 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.640 relationships, and also you're no longer on trick Tony. You've now proven that 275 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.000 you are capable of writing more than just one great script. We'll be right 276 00:19:53.039 --> 00:20:00.839 back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. 277 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:07.160 But it's possible at these second rounds you still haven't watched your career, so 278 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.079 you have to write another great step and go through a third round. As 279 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.000 a lot of agents will say, if you go through three rounds of meetings 280 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:21.079 and you haven't landed at your first job, there's a good chance or something 281 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.559 wrong with you. It's a good chance that you're. Yeah, not everybody 282 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.680 plays all with others, you know, And if you were seeing as defensive 283 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.359 or arrogant or just someone that people don't want to work with, then you 284 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:36.480 know, no matter how great your writing is, it's probably not going to 285 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:41.160 happen. But assuming you played all with others, and what I certainly see 286 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:42.839 if my students and clients, you know, I have a third round of 287 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:48.200 meeting, they're getting there. They're shot now what you do if that shot 288 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:57.359 the whole different story. Okay, Now, you wrote a very good screenplay 289 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.640 relatively early on, and you're coming even before your career had kind of even 290 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.400 started. What were the things that you know brought you to that level of 291 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.079 writing? I mean, were you just born a good screenwriter or what happened 292 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:12.079 at school that really made you able to write a good screenplay? Like? 293 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:18.400 That? A great question. And you know, there's so much misinformation out 294 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.079 there because I have a lot of friends or managers and I'm not gonna out 295 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.160 anyone here, But what happens is there's this myth that if you're a great 296 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:33.160 writer, once you start writing, you write great stress and it's just not 297 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:38.799 true. I know so many writers who I mean, I'm talking Academy Award 298 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.400 winning writers. I'm talking writers who created big hit TV shows. I'm talking 299 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:48.359 about writers who make millions of dollars who it seems like everything they write it's 300 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.240 just amazing. And there was five or six years where they weren't that good, 301 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.640 and they were just getting a little bit better and a little bit better, 302 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.039 and they were doing the right kind of training, but they were being 303 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:02.480 mentored, and then what happens is after five or six years, they finally 304 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:07.200 are writing at a level where they can be taken seriously. They solve script 305 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.799 and they will just say or their manager will make up some story like that 306 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.279 was the first thing they read, and they just forget about all the development. 307 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.000 No, And that's really important people to hear that, because it's a 308 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:23.200 really abuse of message otherwise, because if you don't realize that and you buy 309 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.759 into the fairy tales and people are doing it strategically, it makes you sex 310 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.880 here and it makes you more desirable as a writer just to be selling who 311 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.519 naturally is a great fighter, like after everybody, everybody who wants to work 312 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.440 with natural talent. So it's in people's interest to for ken they have natural 313 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:48.079 talent. But it's just I don't know a single successful writer who didn't start 314 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:53.279 out as someone who had a lot of potential that kind of sucked and was 315 00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:00.079 taught and was mentored and got better. And so in my case, you 316 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.279 know, and as a writer, I wouldn't I wouldn't talk about this way, 317 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.359 but I'm wearing my teacher cat, so I'll be I'll be completely honest. 318 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:15.000 What happened. I was in film school and I never write anything, 319 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:19.200 and a friend and I kind of wrote a strip together and it sold as 320 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:25.079 a USA cable movie starting in Virginia Madsen. And it was a great concept 321 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.519 and if we were just a little bit better writer, probably could have sold 322 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.680 it as a feature. But at the time, as the very first thing 323 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:34.400 I wrote, a co wrote, it was a friend. So I kind 324 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.000 of thought I was God's gifts to writing, because no one else in my 325 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.480 film school class sold anything. Okay, it was USA cable, but it 326 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.279 paid pretty good. It was Virginia mads and it got made. It was 327 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.759 very successful for a cable movie, I mean for your first time out, 328 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.119 at least for me. I was thinking, that's not so shabby. So 329 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.440 my friend and I had a big falling out, so or collaboration ended a 330 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:02.680 whole another long story. But so now I'm so and I write the script, 331 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.599 and I'm in a writing group and they're like professional working writers in this 332 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.079 group. They were all very honest with each other and I showed it to 333 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.079 them. They really liked it. They had some notes, they had a 334 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.599 few issues, so inter rewrite shows them some notes, rewrits, you know 335 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.759 how it goes. But I eventually got the script to a point where they're 336 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:23.359 like, this is great, this will sell, this will launch your career. 337 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.400 You know, I'll show it to my agent if you want. This 338 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.440 is so, this is when the best scripts ever at And of course I'm 339 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.400 thinking, who am I to argue with a sentisment? Right? And so 340 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.079 I showed the film full professor and he reads it and you know, same 341 00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:42.759 thing, fact thing I ever read. It definitely going to sell. I'll 342 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.279 get it to you know, help you get an agent. So at the 343 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:52.920 time I was working for this manager, and almost as a favor, I 344 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:53.960 said, you want to read the script, like I must say, I 345 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.759 was like entering. I wasn't represented Viker, and so we read the script 346 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:07.119 and we met and never forget he said, it's it's it's pretty good for 347 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.039 like a journey first draft. You don't want to show anyone in the industry 348 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:14.519 the script. You only get one person impression. The scripts not that good, 349 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.240 but it has potential. And I this is like a weird disconnect for 350 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:22.440 me because I not when I've been told by everybody else. And when he 351 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:29.759 said, is you're professional writers, professors, friends being honest with you, 352 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.519 but they don't know how hard it is. The great thing it business. 353 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.480 They don't know the bar they have to ship. And by the way, 354 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:40.759 that's the late nineties. The bar is a lot higher today. And he 355 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:45.039 said every time he got the script, it gets coverage, and that coverage 356 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.480 gets database, everyone shares it. So it's the script, not like the 357 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:53.240 script is good, but it's not amazing. And there's a big difference between 358 00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:57.880 good and amazing, and in this industry, nobody cares about good. So 359 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:02.519 he basically said, all work with you if you're willing to put the work 360 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:04.799 in to help you, help make the script what it needs to being, 361 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:10.160 to help you become a better writer. And I was really honestly torn at 362 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:15.119 that time because I was thinking maybe his opinions just not vowed compared to everything 363 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:21.240 else. And so he suggested something that I suggest all of my students and 364 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:25.119 clients, which is, you really think you're scripts ready because you only get 365 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:30.480 one first impression, and that's the most cherished asset you have is your first 366 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:36.000 impression. So what he suggested is go hire studio readers, like literally hire 367 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:40.519 people who I hire someone from them, imagine someone from like Horner Brothers, 368 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:45.039 like actual working readers, pay them under the table. I think it's like 369 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.279 a hundred bucks and have them view the coverage report. They would actually do 370 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.799 the script not in tracking is not their coverage report goes to you, nobody 371 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.519 else because it's not officially in the system. You're paying them to do the 372 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:02.279 coverage report, gave Wold actually really do if the script had come through the 373 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.880 system. So I didn't have the money to do it, but I did 374 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:10.599 it. And when the coverages come back, one of the things they would 375 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:17.599 do is they'll evaluate the writer and it'll say recommend consider her path. And 376 00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:22.279 I think they all came back path on the writer, which was a real 377 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.839 kick to the guy. But at the same time, I was so appreciative 378 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.759 that I knew that, you know, and I didn't make the classic mistake 379 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.599 of listening to everyone telling me how great it was. Find someone took it 380 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:40.759 up the marketplace, and now suddenly, you know, my name for script 381 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:45.000 path is what everybody it has in the record. So I worked at that 382 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.440 manager, and you know, it's a year and a half, And in 383 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.640 that year and a half, I learned everything I didn't know, and I 384 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.680 learned what my weaknesses were and worked really hard trying in the stress and after 385 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:02.720 a year and a half a brutal work. This manager was not a pleasant 386 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:04.960 person and he did not he was smart. He didn't know how to work 387 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:07.880 as writers very well. So it was a brutal experience, but I learned 388 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:12.039 a lot. And at the end of it, he's like, I think 389 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:17.319 it's now ready. I'll pay for the coverage, and he he paid for 390 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.119 some people to do the coverage, and the coverage is all came back. 391 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.240 Recommend, recommend, recommend, And that was the script that I then shown 392 00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:29.799 Kathy rad and all this happened. So no, I, as a writer, 393 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:34.680 I would I would have said the following. I went to film school 394 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.759 in the producer's program. It wasn't the screenwriting program. I didn't think I 395 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:42.799 could be a screenwriter. I took a class where they made us writing screenplay. 396 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:45.640 I didn't want to because I was supposed to be a producern detective writer. 397 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:51.200 I took the class. I wrote the script, the teacher read it. 398 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.079 Next thing, you know, Meg Ryan's cash, Next thing you know, 399 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.160 by the way that all of that is true. It's all true, 400 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.160 and it's just I just took out that year and a half writer boot camp 401 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:10.720 art. Well, okay, can you can you explain kind of what happened 402 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.319 between the version that you thought was good that your manager didn't think was very 403 00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:15.680 good, and the one that he finally thought was good. I mean, 404 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:22.119 what changed. It was just learning a lot about story structure and character development 405 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:27.240 and conflict and all the things that I work with writers now and I coached 406 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:32.480 them through this process. And the thing is, there's such a big gap 407 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.720 between good and amazing. And there are a lot of writers who, you 408 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.720 know, they'll read some books, they'll read some scripts, they'll watch law 409 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:44.200 moves and TV shows. They have with us some natural abilities. They worked 410 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.559 hard, they house plans or in a writing group, and they can get 411 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:51.880 themselves up to good or maybe really good, but they can't hip themselves up 412 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.319 to amazing. And it's order to gain and it's different for each person. 413 00:29:53.480 --> 00:30:03.319 But we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back 414 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.519 to the show. You know, everybody has inherent strengths as a writer. 415 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:14.839 Everybody has inherent weaknesses, and everybody has blind spots and blint spots or weaknesses 416 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.200 that you don't know that you have. So when I'm working with someone, 417 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.720 the first thing is to help them understand what their blind spots are so at 418 00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:26.799 least now they're known weaknesses as opposed that unknown. But then really important thing 419 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:34.240 is helping people get dedicated exercises and dedicated practice so that they can turn weaknesses 420 00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:38.559 into strength. And it absolutely can be done. It takes time, it 421 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:42.559 takes training, and the key is to work with someone who can help coach 422 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:48.400 you through that because the thing that fast for a lot of people is a 423 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:55.400 lot of the books and classes they're teaching rules and they're feaching paradigms and formulas, 424 00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:00.480 and the industry is moving so far away from that. You know, 425 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.000 most agency managers won't even look at you if if that's what you're doing, 426 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.079 because that's not something they can work with it anymore. But also, be 427 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.519 you learn a bunch of rules in a paradigm, you feel educated, but 428 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.680 you haven't become a better writer. It's not that insight out process approach, 429 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.119 which is what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses, what are my 430 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:27.640 blind spots? And then how do I tread weaknesses and to strength. That's 431 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:34.079 that's the road to transformation. And the thing is manager, especially good managers, 432 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.559 that's that's what they will do. They'll you know, they have their 433 00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:42.680 client base, they're making money, they have their b team, they know 434 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:48.319 they'll they'll take some people they think have potential and they'll develop those writers exactly 435 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:55.599 the way I'm talking about. Or you can get mentored by you know, 436 00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:59.160 a success the writers can help coach you through that process. Unfortunately, a 437 00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:04.000 lot of us classes and the books do the opposite. And that's probably sounds 438 00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.480 really self serving because at some point I'll do commercials for my workshops and for 439 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.519 my workshops, and I get that, and you know, and so if 440 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:14.160 you want to take all this with with a cymical game of call, I 441 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:19.799 understand. But the thing is what I endeavor to doing my workshops is to 442 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.640 help people have to get a card training that they would get if it had 443 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:29.599 a manager or a mentor. And obviously, and I tell everyone that if 444 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.799 you have a choice between my workshop and an actual manager or a writer who 445 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.400 can mentor, you obviously go with the manager or the writer, because like 446 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.759 that's better than the workshop. The workshops is there for people who aren't able 447 00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:45.039 to get that at this point. And so I get a lot of in 448 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:50.279 the face student, you have a lot of education in the realm of rules 449 00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:55.160 and paradigms, and they're writing they're not overcoming core weaknesses. So they keep 450 00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:02.559 writing scripts that are similarly flawed, and they're writing formulaic, predictable, generic 451 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:08.599 kinds of scripts, which is exactly the wrong kind of script to workout. 452 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:19.359 Okay, Now, so I assume things like save the Cad and all those 453 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:23.559 things are kind of like, you know, you would consider that really going 454 00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:27.839 in the wrong direction, that people aren't looking for that sort of thing anymore. 455 00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.720 Yeah. So, and again the thing is, it's not what I 456 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:37.200 say, but AGNs the managers saying, right, because otherwise it's like I'm 457 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.680 somebody in the saying, oh, don't listen to that teacher or writer. 458 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.680 Come listen to me and spend your mind, you know, right. So 459 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:49.799 it's like, Okay, it doesn't matter what it's what I say, and 460 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:54.079 that is an agency managers say. And so the reality is agents and managers 461 00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:00.119 in this marketplace, in feature and in TV are looking for pitch perfect authentic 462 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:06.839 script, and they're looking for scripts that are authentic, which means authentic characters 463 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.320 but an authentic voice. It's a script we haven't seen before, it's a 464 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:15.440 story we haven't seen before. That is pitch perfect execution, very difficult to 465 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:21.440 achieve this as a writer. But putting out aside, these scripts go virole, 466 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:24.639 which means when someone writes the script like this and shows as its own 467 00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:29.480 industry, they talk about it and they say it's all the friends, and 468 00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:34.119 a script gets passed around and there's a buzz, and that's what's required to 469 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.840 brace the writer out of all of the light noise that everybody's trying to break 470 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:43.599 in the business. So if I'm an agent and I find you, and 471 00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:47.480 now I'm getting on the phone, I don't know, you might have fold 472 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.679 a bunch of stuff out of my lot, might have a lot of credibilities. 473 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.000 Let's just say you're a newer writer, nobody really knows who you are, 474 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:55.920 and you don't really have any credibility. Again, I'm not saying that's 475 00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:00.559 true for you, but let's just say that's true. So I'm an agent, 476 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.280 I'm now calling everybody's saying you got to read Jason script. And I'm 477 00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:07.000 basically putting my credibility on the line. I'm chasing people to read your script 478 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:12.239 and they'll eventually do it, but they're busy and they'll get to it eventually. 479 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.440 As opposed to if you write a script that everyone's buzzing about. Everybody's 480 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:20.440 talking about, but I'll you write that's It's like what used to be the 481 00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:24.039 Blacklist, those Blacklist script everybody's talking about the script. Everybody's buzzing about those 482 00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:28.800 scripts. Now people are calling me the agent things. How come I'm not 483 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:30.440 meeting with you know, Kason. I want to meet with Jason. That's 484 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:37.559 a whole different game, and more importantly than that is. So let's look 485 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:43.039 at this way. If you're an agent, let's say you have your basic 486 00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:47.480 like me, your sort of basic client. And so here's here's how the 487 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:54.519 Corey Mandel game worked. There be a writing assignment. You would call and 488 00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.400 say, I think Corey is perfect for this and here's why. And they 489 00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:04.280 probably have heard of me. I've got a track record. They say, 490 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.440 sure, we'll put Corey's name on the list. So I now get to 491 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:10.039 compete for that job. I was rage is to doing the same thing. 492 00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:15.519 Bunch of writers are competing for that job. I don't get it. So 493 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:19.159 now you're calling somewhere else and you're getting me to compete for another job. 494 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.960 You're putting energy and eventually I book a job and you get ten percent of 495 00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:28.079 my money and I made really good money, So you're making ten percent of 496 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:30.800 really good money. Okay, that's not too terrible as an agent, but 497 00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:37.440 you know, my agent also represents Aaron Sorkin. So first of all, 498 00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:42.199 when Aaron Sorkin makes a tremendous amount more money than I do, number one, 499 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.519 so right away, much more valuable players. But number two, how 500 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:49.639 do you get Aaron Sorkin a job? Yeah, answer the phone winner, 501 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:54.360 and everybody's right. He's an a less writer. So a basic working writer 502 00:36:54.760 --> 00:37:00.880 is always chasing job. An aimless writer, everyone's chasing him. So someone 503 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:05.559 calls my agent and then we stopped this novel. We think Aaron perfect for 504 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.639 you know, I don't know exactly what my agent does, but he probably 505 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.119 said this Czern's cloak is probably really high and you would read to it. 506 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.039 And then I'll give Aaron the book and see if Aaron make interested. I 507 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:22.440 mean, you would rather have one Aaron Sorkin than twenty Corny Mandel. And 508 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:28.320 so as an agent, you're looking for people who have the potential to be 509 00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:32.239 a list writers in both TV and future because that's where all the money is. 510 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.960 And someone who follows save the cat or other such sort of paradigm formulas. 511 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.400 These scripts do not become a list writers. So when you look at 512 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:54.000 scripts that have launched a lest career like Juneo, like you know, American 513 00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:00.239 beauty, like Madneting, we can go on, and they're not following the 514 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:07.840 paradise. They're offensive. Scripts are original. And so I'm an agent and 515 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:13.519 somebody has written to one of these formulas that a lot of summer movies are 516 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:15.480 going to follow. And by the way, just between you and me, 517 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:20.960 I wrote a lot of summer movies and I often would follow formulas because if 518 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.960 you're working for Warner Brothers and they're doing Next Man five, they're not looking 519 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.719 for American beauty, I think, so so many can sort of secut on 520 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:36.320 that hero's journey paradise. The thing is, let's say you're an original writer, 521 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:37.920 a new a new writer, and you write one of those scripts. 522 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:42.320 It's not as easy as it looks to really make it interesting. It's not 523 00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:44.639 as easy as it looks to fault. It's sort of like idea, not 524 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:46.679 as easy as it looks to follow the form. So let's say you can 525 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:50.719 do it. Let's say you can do it, And so people would script 526 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.719 a brand new writer, Like, hey, this guy can smartly follow a 527 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:58.599 formula. Who cares? Really? Who gives it that? You know what? 528 00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:01.360 Because there's a lot of writers that can do that. And some of 529 00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:07.880 those writers are like Corny Mandel who has worked for really big people, and 530 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:09.960 like Ribby Scott and we'll seeing through the They've always want to work with me 531 00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:15.079 again. So like, that's gives me a lot of credibility. I have 532 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:19.920 a track record where I've worked under deadline. I've did in situations before I'm 533 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:23.000 turning a script in the studio called me and they want a completely different direction 534 00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:27.360 and I can pull that off. I've proven that I could pull that off. 535 00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.880 So I have a huge advantage over you. And then of course the 536 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:36.559 person who wrote Guardians the Galaxy has an enormous advantage over me, you know, 537 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.519 because they've written something that's made a tremendous amount of money. My point, 538 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.519 there's people who can follow up. There's a lot of people can follow 539 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.800 up paradigm. They have a track record. You don't, So why does 540 00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:52.599 anybody care? Nobody cares. That's the agency are constantly sending me people to 541 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:58.199 my classes. It's like I can't brace somebody into the business because they followed 542 00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:04.639 a conventional paradigm. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 543 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:13.400 and now back to the show, because nobody will read that, like nobody 544 00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:19.760 cares as opposed to you write a script that nobody's seeing before. It's really 545 00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.320 fresh and exciting, and it gets people's attention. It's what's called a head 546 00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:29.000 turning script. Now, I worked with someone who spent you know, a 547 00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:31.119 year and a half well to write that script. Wrote that script. They 548 00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:36.000 didn't sell, and they got offered like, oh, I think it was 549 00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.280 like three hundred crand to write Canda Bear three year Canada there a four and 550 00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:42.400 he like calls me like, I don't know if I should do it or 551 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.199 not because they worked so hard to be able to write to this level. 552 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.119 Now they're offering me a lot of money to do a formulaic you know, 553 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:52.719 paint by the number scrapped, and what do I do? And my answer 554 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.039 was, my job is to help you to get to the point where you 555 00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.480 have that decision. Because you make the decision like I could, I think 556 00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:04.760 it will go either like personally, meet, I just really took the job. 557 00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.719 I always took the money. I don't think that was smart, but 558 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:13.000 that's what I did. But my point is the disconnect that a lot of 559 00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:16.800 people make is there's just people that are like code breakers. They go, 560 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:21.159 look at all these movies coming out in the thumber. I decoded what happens 561 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.480 on every page. And then they teach this paradigm and then writers go, 562 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.079 well, I should write script that you know is commercial. If I want 563 00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:31.159 to break in the business, this is what the studios are in summer, 564 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:36.679 I should write script like that. And it's the exact opposes that's true. 565 00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:43.079 Agents will tell you. Most of the clients I signed, I signed off 566 00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.840 of scripts that I was really confident I couldn't sell because they were different their 567 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:52.159 original Like Harriic Singer wrote the script The Sky Respall. It is so violent, 568 00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:57.119 so dark, that nobody was going to buy the script, like nobody, 569 00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:00.440 but everybody had to meet this guy, had to meet the guy who 570 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.920 wrote it, and people want to find a way to work with it. 571 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.440 And so he was booking assignments and making what I think is nine six figure 572 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:13.920 income year in and year out, and kept writing original material and eventually one 573 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:16.519 of those one thing he wrote got made as an American hustle and now I 574 00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:20.480 was, you know, a big ay of us writer, probably making in 575 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:24.280 you know, millions of dollars, But for many, many years he was 576 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:30.400 a working writer making six figure income off of a script that didn't follow the 577 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:36.320 paradigms, didn't follow the part. It was just so original and so dark 578 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.679 and so messed up in a good way that everybody topped that script right. 579 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.800 Everybody said, have you read this? Guy? I saw, You've got 580 00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:47.199 to read this st That's what agents and managers, you know, that's what 581 00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:55.760 they want. They want something different and original. And even if that is 582 00:42:55.800 --> 00:43:00.480 a sample that you use to start writing break down the middle, save the 583 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:07.480 cat somewhere strips, fine, but you can't. It's really difficult to break 584 00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:12.280 in the business writing a strip like that because it's a dame that doesn't it 585 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:19.199 just nobody cares. Can you talk a little bit about, for example, 586 00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:23.599 when you're looking for people who are trying to break in as screenwriters, you 587 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:29.559 know, what are the essential things that they need to do if they're I'm 588 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:35.639 assuming what you're saying is people need to submit just amazing samples. I mean, 589 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.599 let's say you don't have a vehicle where somebody like Meg Ryan wants your 590 00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:43.480 screenplay and you're you're just going the direct way and saying, I want to 591 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.119 find an agent to you know, to support me. What is the what 592 00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:52.440 kind of spec screenplay do you think they that were kind of like work for 593 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.880 them? Well, so what works for people? Again, it's it's perfect 594 00:43:54.920 --> 00:44:00.599 authentic, and authentic would be you know, a script that you could have 595 00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:06.480 written this completely original so you know, you know, David Tyler wasn't sent 596 00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.320 around going I wonder what'll sell in the marketplace? That bet a scripts about 597 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:15.159 you know guy as a stuttering problem. That the King's speech was just something 598 00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:19.719 that he was really impassionate to write. He had you know, he's publicly 599 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:22.760 discussed that he had had a stuttering issue and there was just a very personally 600 00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:30.639 important script to him and he wrote up strip and uh, you know, 601 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.480 he wasn't trying to gain the marketplace. He was just writing a script with 602 00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:37.880 an amazing character, amazing story that was he was really impassionate about. And 603 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.360 you read that script, it doesn't read like any other script. It's like 604 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:45.280 you read American Beauty. You don't tell another one of these scripts. There's 605 00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:49.440 just something original about it and different, and it doesn't have to be a 606 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.679 quirky character piece. Again, this guy is following, you know, about 607 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:54.280 the end of the world, and these priests are just going around killing people. 608 00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:00.920 And it's very dark and it's very violent. It's certainly about Juno from 609 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:06.039 a total point of view, but there's just something you hadn't seen that before, 610 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:08.760 and there's something unique and powerful. And so we look at a script 611 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:14.119 like Groundhog Day. You know, it is a classic rom com, but 612 00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:17.719 it just doesn't You don't read that suspect script, you know, after we 613 00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:22.440 had another rom com script and it killed myself. It's is different. There's 614 00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:29.480 just something different and original and exciting and fresh about it. That's the kind 615 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:35.599 of script. And the thing is when I go and speak at again, 616 00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.000 you know, I always hear writers complain, Oh, it's so hard to 617 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.519 get an agent's hard to get a manager. No one wants to read at 618 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.360 work, No one wants to represent me. The only want to represent known 619 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.840 commodity. Thing is that that's just not true. I've the last a couple 620 00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:54.679 of days that are being with managers and they all have the same complaints. 621 00:45:55.559 --> 00:46:02.360 We can't find enough new, really great writers, you know, and they're 622 00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:08.159 all like, who your students shouldn't read. They're there. They cannot find 623 00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:14.079 enough. There's so many opportunities for writers, to particular in TV, but 624 00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:17.679 more and more in features. The thing is, it's not looking it's not 625 00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:22.039 looking for new writers. That's that's pretty easy. And it's not looking for 626 00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.119 new writers who thinks they're really great, because that's a lot of those people. 627 00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:30.559 It's new writers who really are amazing. I mean, if you look 628 00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:34.920 at the script for Juno, you look at the script for American Beauty, 629 00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:45.519 you look at the script for Madness. Yeah, yeah, sorry, my 630 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.559 phone did the word thing? I do it, sir? I mean, 631 00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:54.800 these are these are amazing scripts. So like I know the guys that wrote 632 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:00.159 they wrote the spect script for the Nix, the TV show. I mean 633 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:08.239 that script was really great. And Stephen Sodenberg, who had retired, we 634 00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:14.119 got that script and read it and that lured him back. People still talk 635 00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:19.800 about the Game of Firms pilot script. It is just an amazing piece of 636 00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:24.280 writing. The Americans. I remember that pilot went around child and everybody was 637 00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:30.320 about Everybody was talking about that script. And the thing is there's a lot 638 00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:34.800 of skill and the build it goes in the writing at that level at the 639 00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:45.119 highest level, and if a new writer can write to that level, managers 640 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:53.119 are looking for them. The the scarcity here and I'm sorry, I used 641 00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:57.960 to be in the colonists of socimbis with an old pattern. The scarcity is 642 00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:04.159 not on a So now this is really important because if they're if the scarcity 643 00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:08.679 was on that front, which is what everybody thinks, which means you've got 644 00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:13.519 all of these new writers who can write an amazing trips and there's just not 645 00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:17.760 enough agents and managers to go around. If that was the case and you 646 00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:22.320 were one of those writers, how do you persevere? Well, Luck, 647 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:30.320 connections, relationships, that's what those that's what if you're a new, amazing 648 00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:34.559 talent as a writer. And I'm not saying you're gonna sit at home and 649 00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.599 they'll find you, but I'm just saying getting the manager is actually easy because 650 00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:46.039 they're looking for you. HBO has executives who are out going to len at 651 00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:52.480 play, looking through YouTube. They're they're looking for fresh, original, new 652 00:48:52.719 --> 00:49:00.800 voices. The thing is, there's obviously a lot of people out there that 653 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.280 want to be writers, having an original, unique voice and take have passion 654 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:12.400 about this, have read books. There's a lot of those people, that 655 00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:17.079 percentage of those people who can write pitch perfect, who can write the level 656 00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:22.920 that people are looking for, you know, is one hundredth of one percent 657 00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:30.519 at best. And so the key is I think a lot of writers get 658 00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:37.199 taken advantage of because there are businesses out there that basically say, what stands 659 00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:43.239 between you and a career is access, and don't worry. I can help 660 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:45.159 solve that part. You know, I'm going to have this pitch best or 661 00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:49.360 I'm going to shop your scripter, I'm going to list your stricter, I'm 662 00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.480 whatever. I'm going to help you get access. If you're willing to give 663 00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:58.119 me some money, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. 664 00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:06.320 And now back to the show. So, you know, there was a 665 00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:08.480 pitch back that I used to go and teach at and I'm not doing it 666 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:13.840 anymore. I just don't feel good about doing it because there's you know, 667 00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:19.719 five to six hundred people coming to LA paying hundreds and thousands, not hundreds 668 00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:23.320 of thousands, hundreds or thousands of dollars, and they get the pitch in 669 00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:27.440 front of people, and they get five minutes to pitch in front of the 670 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.880 selling. Well, no one's going to buy their pitch, but what they 671 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:34.000 might do is like your pitch, like your energy, like you geez, 672 00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:37.039 can you write at all? They will be that blunt about it. If 673 00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:40.400 that, they'll say, give me a writing sample, and then it's that 674 00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:45.119 writing sample is amazing or close to amazing, then we'll bring you in for 675 00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:47.199 a meeting and it really start to see if something can be either. And 676 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:50.760 it was just talking to all those executives and a lot of them are like, 677 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:52.480 yeah, we're just not going to do this anymore because we've gone through 678 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:57.199 three or four years worth of these. We've asked for a couple of hundred 679 00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:02.880 writing samples, and so far now writing sample was anywhere near good enough for 680 00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:07.400 us to bring that person in. So this is a complete waste of time 681 00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:14.400 for everybody involved. So now, obviously, if a listener, if they 682 00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:16.760 are in a position they're at that point zero one and one percess. They're 683 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:20.360 a new writer, they don't have a track directors, they don't have an 684 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:24.320 agent manager, and they are writing pisto perfect effect, and they're able to 685 00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:30.840 do this. Sure, if there's someone can help them get some access, 686 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:36.000 why not. But the reality is for most weill just spending so much time 687 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:42.199 and energy and maybe money trying to solve the access part of this, as 688 00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:50.000 opposed to spending time and energy figuring out where they are as a writer and 689 00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:52.880 less they need to do and get to become a bet a writer. So 690 00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:59.199 it's sort of like people are spending all this money to get interviews for surgeon's 691 00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.239 job because they really want to be a surgeon because it's it's good money and 692 00:52:01.239 --> 00:52:05.079 it's good benefits. They've never been in medical school, so yeah, you 693 00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:07.760 can spend all this money and get an interview at the hospital, but they're 694 00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:10.719 ever going to hire you, you know, as opposed to spend your time 695 00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:15.239 and energy actually getting medical training so that you're qualified for the job. There's 696 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:21.760 so many people out there who just aren't qualified and they're not doing the training 697 00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:25.599 to get there. Now, do you think that getting a manager is an 698 00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:30.480 important step to like, I mean, should you try and do that before 699 00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:34.159 you try to go find an agent? You know, get get you in 700 00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:40.039 shape? For for all bunch of reasons. Agents, especially these days, 701 00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:45.519 they are sells people. They are not there to help your careers, are 702 00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:47.840 not there to develop you. They're not there to take your script and say 703 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:52.199 it's it's close, but it needs to get better. They're just a sales 704 00:52:52.280 --> 00:53:00.519 force and the manager is someone that is going to help develop you, help 705 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:05.000 understand your career. So the first thing, yeah, I would definitely go 706 00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:08.320 for a manager before you get an agent. First of all, a manager 707 00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:13.239 will let you know when you're ready for an agent, and they'll protect you 708 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:16.239 and not and keep you from agents until you're ready to help develop you. 709 00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:20.039 If they're a good manager, careful a lot of bad managers are they able 710 00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:22.559 to assume it's a good manager, and then when it gets to the point 711 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:28.559 where you're ready for an agent, they'll know who's a good agent for you. 712 00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:32.800 Because the thing is is all agents have a superpower of they'll sit in 713 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.119 a room and somehow know what it is you want to hear and tell you 714 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:43.320 what you want to hear, even if it's not true. So a manager 715 00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:46.679 is going to know you, your personality, your writing, and they're going 716 00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:52.199 to be in a place to help figure out what would be a good agent 717 00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:55.559 for you. Is there any way to make sure that you're finding the I 718 00:53:55.599 --> 00:54:00.760 mean a good agent, I mean where where is that kind of where do 719 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.920 you find them? Well, so the thing is that you don't Okay, 720 00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:07.920 you don't find nature because I mean sorry, I was talking about a manager. 721 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.239 Where how do you like, how do you go about finding a manager? 722 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:20.360 Right? So it's actually not that hard. So the one thing you 723 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.199 want to be careful about. I'm starting to see more and more of these 724 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:27.519 management companies are just taking advantage of people. So like you don't want to 725 00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:30.559 find some managers that's charging you. You don't want to manager that's taking ten 726 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:36.480 percent of anything. You know, it's like one manager it copan is actually 727 00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:40.679 like taking if you're an editor or a web designer, they're gonna take ten 728 00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:45.480 percent of your income. So there's there's these scams out there. You got 729 00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:51.880 to be careful of that. But that aside what you're looking for. It's 730 00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:53.320 not hard to network. It's not hard to find out like who the good 731 00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:59.960 management companies are. And so you know the management companies, you reach out 732 00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:04.360 them and you just reach out to like the lowest person, like the the 733 00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:09.800 intern or the creative executive who's reading strips. It's the lowest person on the 734 00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:14.760 food chain. You have a nice little thirty seconds, lend minute, a 735 00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:19.960 little presentation. You call enough of them, there's a big chance to find 736 00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:22.840 one or two of them. They'll take a look at the script. It's 737 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.119 really means we'll to take a look at first couple of pages to see if 738 00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:30.199 you can know how to write, and if your script's amazing, you know, 739 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:35.559 there's a really good chance that that you'll hear back from them. The 740 00:55:35.559 --> 00:55:37.679 thing is is, I know a lot of those people. A lot of 741 00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.400 those people are my students, and they'll tell you ninety nine percent of the 742 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.800 time, yeah, they're amazing. App is how bad the scripts are? 743 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:50.119 You know, it's not amazing. It's not amazing. If there's writers out 744 00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:52.519 there that think they're where they are, there's writers that think the script is 745 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:58.159 really great and it's not. What they find amazing is like how wide that 746 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:06.079 gap could be. So it's not it's not hard at this point to get 747 00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:12.320 people in management companies, especially like the lowest level person to take a look. 748 00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:16.760 And if you live in LA like these folks who like these newer people 749 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:20.960 to manage with company, they're networking, so they're always going to network events 750 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:23.199 to go in the writers build events or at screens or at certain parties. 751 00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:27.599 It's not hard to get plugged into that circle. If you live in LA. 752 00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:29.920 And if you don't live in LA, that's okay, you don't have 753 00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:34.159 to move to LA. You know, with the Internet, it's not hard 754 00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:38.280 to find out who these people are and reach out to people via Twitter and 755 00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:43.119 Facebook and email, and it's just it's it's not that hard to get people 756 00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:46.440 to read script. I'm not saying it's easy, But what I say is 757 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:53.039 training yourself to be able to write the kind of script that when somebody reads 758 00:56:53.079 --> 00:57:00.519 it it has a positive outcome for you. That's so much harder been getting 759 00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:04.119 someone to read the script. And the mistake the biggest intakes that writers make 760 00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.599 is that you go out to management company, you get someone to read your 761 00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:09.880 script. It's just not that good. It's probably it like, it's probably 762 00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:14.559 not going to read in those scripts and a database the stuff. So suddenly 763 00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:16.440 maybe you have got to just burn your bridges there. You might have burned 764 00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:25.679 your bridge elsewhere. Your first impression is prescious, and you're like a minor 765 00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:30.039 leaguer and when you get pulled up to the majors, you have to hit 766 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:31.760 all the running your first time. That's not how it works in baseball, 767 00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:34.960 right, It's you're a minor leaguer you show a lot of potential, you 768 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:37.199 go out to the majors, you strike out the first time, they probably 769 00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:40.079 don't send you back. It's probably get the batting coach they work with you. 770 00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:44.519 You strike out enough times, they're going to send you back. It's 771 00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:47.639 not like that here. There's so many writers one who wakes in the business. 772 00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:52.159 There's so many people that it's sort of like you get your shot, 773 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.079 and if you don't not get out of the park, you might not get 774 00:57:55.159 --> 00:58:01.639 those shots. Fact, here's something that's pretty chilling, and I'm not going 775 00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:07.159 to quote the name because I don't have permission, but not that long ago, 776 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:10.920 talking to an agent at a at a one of the bigger agencies, 777 00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:16.639 and they said something that this. I think it's really important for listenings to 778 00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:23.199 hear this. He said. If you you think, they said, if 779 00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:28.840 we read the script from a new writer and we don't think that script is 780 00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:34.320 just pitch perfect, authentic, now kind of represent that writer. Ever, 781 00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:39.360 they're blacklisted. And at first I got kind of a set because I know 782 00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:45.079 for fact that if writers can engage in the right trying of training, they 783 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:50.480 can dramatically improve and so okay, so this writer maybe isn't where they need 784 00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.039 to be today, but two years from now or two years from now or 785 00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:58.199 four years from now, they might be an amazing writer. And so I 786 00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:00.719 just got a set. You know, the teacher in me got really set, 787 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:04.639 and I started to push back, and he knew exactly where I was 788 00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:06.719 going and shut me down and said, no, no, you don't get 789 00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:12.559 it, because we made a strategic decision to not be in the stupid writers 790 00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:15.360 business. And that's when I was like, whoa, Okay, now I 791 00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.760 don't know what you're what are you talking about, because because it's really simple, 792 00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:22.000 it's just point. You know, if you get hired by Voltane Peterson 793 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:24.760 to write the script, you have a deadline, like at some point you've 794 00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:29.159 got to turn that script in no matter what, and you got to make 795 00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:30.079 it as good as you can. But you've got a deadline. He goes, 796 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:34.920 if you're trying to break in the business, there's no deadline. So 797 00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:37.880 if you're trying to break in the business and you have moved mountains to get 798 00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:43.719 me to read your strict or someone else in my agency, if that script 799 00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:47.280 is not pitch perfect, authentic, you're an idiot, and we don't want 800 00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:52.079 to represent stupid writers. Because even if they're writing includes, they're so stupid. 801 00:59:52.760 --> 01:00:00.760 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. Now back to 802 01:00:00.800 --> 01:00:06.639 the show. And stupid writers they just take more time and energy, they 803 01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:08.840 create more messes. It's just you don't want to be in a stupid writer 804 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:16.119 business. And I would respectfully disagree with this person because I work with writers 805 01:00:16.119 --> 01:00:21.400 and I know that a lot of writers go out with scripts when they shouldn't. 806 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:24.519 And it's not because they're stupid. It's just because they're insecure. It's 807 01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:30.239 because they're impatient, it's because they're delusion fold, it's just they're listening to 808 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:34.760 their own people, because I know what it's like if you're writing group or 809 01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:37.840 your teacher is telling the script, or even worse, people spend money. 810 01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:43.880 They go online and they hire someone to do coverage of the script and script 811 01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:49.840 consultant. And if people have really good, impressive credit. Well, the 812 01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:53.719 thing is is if you're online marketing yourself as a reader or script consultant, 813 01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:59.639 that's probably a big part of your business. And so you want to repeat 814 01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.719 customer earth and happy customers are repeat customers. So a lot of these folks 815 01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:07.480 have reputation for skewing everything positive. I'm not saying that's true of all of 816 01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:12.760 them, but a lot of them. And so you know, someone will 817 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:16.880 go online, find someone who used to work at dream Works and Warner Brothers 818 01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:21.440 and pay this person X amount of money and then this person says, your 819 01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:25.119 script's brilliant, you should go out to the marketplace. I can't understand how 820 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:30.440 that writer would feel confident. And that doesn't mean the stupidest means they're a 821 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:35.880 little big, a little naive, but they're not stupid. So but the 822 01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:43.480 point is people get blacklisted, yet your first impression means so much. And 823 01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:46.440 every agent managers everything in the money feeling concess and kind of workshops. They 824 01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:52.480 always say single biggest mistakes that writers make new writers is going out to the 825 01:01:52.519 --> 01:02:04.159 marketplace before they're ready. Right, So can we I want to change gears 826 01:02:04.199 --> 01:02:07.960 for just a second and talk about actual the actual writing process and some of 827 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:12.639 the ways that people can improve. Now when you talk about not using these 828 01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:15.800 paradigms and things like, you know, the structures that are kind of pre 829 01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:20.960 built and it's kind of like writing by numbers or whatever, you know, 830 01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.320 for a lot of people, and a lot of the screenwriters that I've talked 831 01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:27.920 to that are not at the same level you are, but they're writing independent 832 01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:32.760 films, they kind of rely on that stuff to you know, when they 833 01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:36.880 go into the abyss and they're trying to put that together their story, they 834 01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:39.840 use that sometimes to kind of put things together and figure out, you know, 835 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:44.880 how everything's gonna look. What is your advice for you know, let's 836 01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:49.199 say, for example, before you're ever writing and sitting down and you know, 837 01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:53.639 writing the actual screenplay, what is your process for building that blueprint and 838 01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:59.480 that structure of your story before you begin. So that's a great question. 839 01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:02.960 I'm gonna have to respectfually say, like that would be an entire podcast in 840 01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:08.039 itself, but here's what I'll say. So, you know, I got 841 01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:12.599 hired to write Metropolis where us got at the tapline. I'm in London, 842 01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:16.920 Like it's the second night. We're having dinner, and the producer leans over 843 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:20.519 and says, hey, I know you you go to easily stump store. 844 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:22.599 Yes, I do, because you've learned that three S structure of byss and 845 01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:24.920 that point and all that stuff. But I'm like, yes, I have, 846 01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:30.320 because if you try and write Metropolics to that, yes you've different work. 847 01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:32.480 I will fire you so fast your head will stand and I'll bring me 848 01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:37.719 in a real lighter and I I thought he was joking, and I started 849 01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.920 laughing, and then he said, I am not joking. You know it 850 01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:45.400 So fortunate no part of the day took me under their wing and they taught 851 01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:52.000 me storyline and or damnic story structure because it actually finished the story and all 852 01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:55.360 back traffic. So you know, Leamon was on the front page Variety that 853 01:03:55.400 --> 01:03:59.840 really Scott was making it. I got invided all these big cardis around. 854 01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:03.079 I was the guy for like seven minutes, and I was then already actually 855 01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:06.679 in my agents the house, and you know, Calichory's there, you know 856 01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:12.599 s Form and all these writers who like had careers I could only dream of, 857 01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:16.960 and it was shocking. They all just make fun of the writers who 858 01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:20.519 follow these paradigms. And so one of the things I do when I feel 859 01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:28.320 like because a lot of my students have had that paradigm hammered into them, 860 01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.000 is I'll bring in an agent from an agency and I'll ask them to bring 861 01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:35.800 in of all the writers they signed in the last year, to bring in 862 01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:43.480 the scripts that they signed those writers off the because okay, if it's Calichorius 863 01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:46.960 Selman Ludies. If it's Salpla codius juno, you know, you can your 864 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:50.280 listeners, can you get access to those scripts. But a lot of time, 865 01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:54.880 you know, Fasaric singer and it's the guy's fault and that script didn't 866 01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:57.639 get mad and there's a good chance that's not sitting there on the internet. 867 01:04:57.679 --> 01:05:00.760 So a lot of writers when they get signed. You know, I worked 868 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:03.800 as a writer, just recently coached the writer through the TV pilot. It 869 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:08.400 didn't sell, but it got her all these meetings and she's got a four 870 01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:11.639 hundred thousand dollars overall deal at on the studio. But you're not going to 871 01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:16.719 find that script online. So data's will bring in the script that they signing 872 01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:21.039 people off of. And then I just have everybody go through the scripts and 873 01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:25.800 you can take any of the paradigms that you want, and just how many 874 01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:30.719 of those scripts all the paradigns And the answer is usually none, or you 875 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:34.719 know, one or two, but very rarely. That's where we start in 876 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:40.480 my costs, because it isn't about well, Corey says this thing, and 877 01:05:40.599 --> 01:05:43.800 this teacher says that thing, and this is just said that thing. You 878 01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:46.679 know, it's just about what the reality is in the market spe I think 879 01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:55.760 a big reason that people follow the paradigm is an it's easiest to really understand 880 01:05:55.880 --> 01:05:59.800 organic story structure and story design. It takes. It takes training and skill 881 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:02.320 because the whole nother, like a lot of people think what they want to 882 01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:06.440 do is plotting. People don't understand they're interesting plotting and the story. So 883 01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:11.360 a plot is this happens, and then this happens, and then this happens, 884 01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:15.440 and then this happens. And you're trying to make those things interesting or 885 01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:20.679 funny or scary or thrilling, you know, whatever kind of script you're trying 886 01:06:20.679 --> 01:06:24.679 to Okay, and you're very focused on this happens, and this happens, 887 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:27.119 and this happens. Oh, and then this happens, and wow, this 888 01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:31.199 happens. That's the plot. Story is the whole difference that makes it interesting. 889 01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:38.519 The story makes it meaningful and impactful, and memory a whole different way 890 01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:41.920 of thinking about it. And it's the integration of story and thought. And 891 01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:45.599 there's just a lot of training and skill sets that go into it. It 892 01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:48.440 can be taught, it can be learned. This is the kind of work 893 01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:54.440 that the top managers do with their rights. This is and here's the quick 894 01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:59.440 well commercial plug. It's what I do in the workshop. And so a 895 01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:04.360 lot of people don't have that training. So then their only options is follow 896 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:09.760 paradise or just follow their instincts to sort of follow their impulses instincts, or 897 01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:12.639 allow the character around. But here's the thing. If you follow your characters 898 01:07:12.679 --> 01:07:15.760 around, they'll do a lot of interesting things. It's just not going to 899 01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:20.280 turn into a really compelling story, which hardly and if you follow your instincts 900 01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:28.519 and impulses, you can write a really interesting first draft. But there aren't 901 01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:33.599 many people in the world whose instincts and impulses consistently drive to a successful story. 902 01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:40.880 There's a lapis into it's perfect authentic. So you know, I think 903 01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:45.679 for a lot of people, their choices are follow up paradigm. We'll kind 904 01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:51.119 of make this step up and follow my instincts, and that second option generally 905 01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:59.320 does not lead to subtest. So that's why they follow the paradise. How 906 01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:00.599 people follow our agents, so that it's been lied too, you know, 907 01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:04.280 they've been told this is what readers look for. You won't be considered by 908 01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:08.559 an agent if you don't do this, and it's the opposite. In my 909 01:08:08.679 --> 01:08:12.920 current class, I've got like four different readers, and they each one and 910 01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:15.079 I didn't say that. Each one all on their own said, you know, 911 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:20.520 to the class, we've been told to throw away any descripts the quality 912 01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:26.840 paradigms because nobody's interested in those kinds of descripts or writer especially I'm a TV 913 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:32.800 for it, so it takes, you know, if I do an entire 914 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:39.880 eighth week workshop in stories of science, So it's it's not feasible for me 915 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:46.000 to answer that question in the short space. But for the listeners, you 916 01:08:46.079 --> 01:08:49.560 know, what I would say is and don't take my word for it. 917 01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:55.039 You don't know me. I'm pretty this guy. But maybe if you don't 918 01:08:55.039 --> 01:08:59.119 know means and I but don't take the other. Don't take any other guests 919 01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:01.199 on this podcast word for it. That's my opinion. Don't take your teacher's 920 01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:05.600 work for it does take some famous gurus. Don't don't see anyone's word for 921 01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:12.119 It's too important. Get your hands on scripts that have lost careers. That's 922 01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:15.119 not that hard to do. If you network around, you can reach out 923 01:09:15.159 --> 01:09:16.800 to writers and stay able to be possible to see the script that launched your 924 01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:20.319 career. It's not that hard to get or if you know agents or managers 925 01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:23.720 or you know someone orks for an agent, a maeragers, it's just not 926 01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:28.920 that hard in the electronic PDF world to get your hands on script. But 927 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:31.239 that's gonna be that's how far is that going to be from the ones that 928 01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:34.439 are like the published ones that you see. It's like, now, that's 929 01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:40.079 yeah, it's different, Robin as this the we're looking for the script that 930 01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:43.640 last somebody's career. We're looking for the script that you're an unknown writer, 931 01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:45.760 you wrote a script and a manager and you know, read the script that 932 01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:50.399 I'm gonna work with you or adapt the script that wm me or Cia you 933 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:57.119 know as signed you off of We'll be right back after a word from our 934 01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:08.119 sponsor and now back to the show. Or so for instance, in my 935 01:10:08.319 --> 01:10:15.239 case, you could find Metropolis online. The script that launched my career. 936 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:20.680 You cannot find outline. So the script that got me into a room for 937 01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:25.000 really Scott to hiring me and write Metropolis, you can't that script. You're 938 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:28.119 not going to find outline. But you know, Metropolis is a script that 939 01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:30.279 you could find out life. But you really want to go back to the 940 01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:34.159 script. Anyway, My point is you look at those scripts and then take 941 01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:38.640 any of the paradigms that you want and ask yourself, now, it's different 942 01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:43.279 with like if you start looking at lower budget genre film, yeah, you 943 01:10:43.359 --> 01:10:46.760 know you are going to see a lot of paradigm. It says it's a 944 01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:53.079 different game, it's a different arena. Although that said, you know, 945 01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:59.439 if somebody wants to write a thriller script like you, I suggest trying to 946 01:10:59.479 --> 01:11:02.359 write an l elevated roll of script that isn't just you know, page from 947 01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:06.199 the numbers. You know, for instance, clients a lance. Now it 948 01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:11.119 doesn't really care because it's adapted from a novel. But let's just say it 949 01:11:11.239 --> 01:11:14.319 wasn't adapted from a novel, Like that's a really thrilling script, but it 950 01:11:14.399 --> 01:11:17.479 has elevated characters elevate. You write a script like that, you have a 951 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:21.720 shot in the majors. You have a shot to launch a career. And 952 01:11:21.800 --> 01:11:26.720 if it doesn't happen, you know, you can always go down and well, 953 01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:31.960 I guess times happens kind of a it's always expensive to make a you 954 01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:39.000 know, but just a you know, a script like et Matina, you 955 01:11:39.079 --> 01:11:44.880 know, very contain one location, what two three characters. That's that's the 956 01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:47.199 kind of script. It's an elevated script. You know, I'll scars like 957 01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:51.319 that's a great script. And it's not just Paine by the number script. 958 01:11:51.359 --> 01:11:59.039 It's just what you're looking for is first of all, we're looking for characters 959 01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:02.199 that are authentic and some pal and whenever view characters that have to do certain 960 01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:08.600 things on certain pages, certain events have to happen, then they're not going 961 01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:13.680 to feel authentic. Secondly, you know, I used to be a studio 962 01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:17.920 reader and it's like you knew a script and it's like, Okay, here 963 01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:23.199 comes a big surprise event. It's so not surprising. Okay, here comes 964 01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:26.239 a big you know, insight into if you just see it coming from my 965 01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:30.239 la. And when you you know, writers are only working on one script. 966 01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:33.079 They don't understand the piles of the scripts that are moving through readers lives. 967 01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:39.560 And so when you've just read fifty scripts that are structured pretty much the 968 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:43.840 same way, they all just get forgettable. They all feel generic, and 969 01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:47.359 then no one comes. So I was on a screaming kind of a little 970 01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:50.439 while ago, and the person some writers like, I'm writing it on a 971 01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:56.079 more spread and this expert to stop stop right now. Do just think no 972 01:12:56.119 --> 01:12:58.680 one's going to buy an more script, No agent's going to be a better 973 01:12:58.720 --> 01:13:01.479 house. But here's the thing that that person luckily didn't listen to that person. 974 01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:05.640 They broke that script and they just got fired by a team of agents 975 01:13:05.680 --> 01:13:10.199 at c A. I have no idea if that's more script becaself. Probably 976 01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:15.439 not. But it's got PA. They're not Rea, and they're taking lots 977 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:16.960 of meetings. Because here's the thing. I'm a reader and I'm going through 978 01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:21.479 a pile script and suddenly there's this dward script doesn't have the insane incident. 979 01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:26.079 Page ten doesn't have that, not only the abyss on a certain page, 980 01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:30.359 but this kind of a bis or the fault fault low beat on the mids 981 01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:33.319 whatever. It doesn't. It's not constructed that way. It's not different for 982 01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:40.319 the sake of being different. It's different because it's an authentic story that's unfolding 983 01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:44.800 its own tape, and it has a reason for the way it structured it. 984 01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:49.800 And I just never seen a script like this. It's like, the 985 01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:54.399 next week i'm driving home, I'm thinking about that script. I ain't thinking 986 01:13:54.399 --> 01:13:58.880 about everything else. So when my boss or my friends who worked at another 987 01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:01.600 production company says, you read anything good lately. That's the script I'm going 988 01:14:01.640 --> 01:14:05.279 to talk about. That's the script that I will remember, and that's the 989 01:14:05.359 --> 01:14:10.359 script that people start talking about. That's the script that can launch your career. 990 01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:15.920 So now that said, I have a lot of clients who write those 991 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:19.000 kind of scripts. They don't sell, they take meetings, nothing happens, 992 01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:25.079 or at another script like that doesn't sally take meetings. Maybe then the agent 993 01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:29.319 says, Okay, we really kind of took a shot at really launching you 994 01:14:29.760 --> 01:14:32.319 big. You know, maybe this next script, we do want to bend 995 01:14:32.399 --> 01:14:36.039 it a little bit more towards conventions. Let's take your unique voice. Let's 996 01:14:36.079 --> 01:14:40.640 not write a fourth square straight down the middle of take the cat script. 997 01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:45.800 Let's not do that because I will just be ignored. But let's take your 998 01:14:45.880 --> 01:14:47.760 sensibility and your abilities, and let's see if you can't bend it a little 999 01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:51.880 bit towards something a little bit more conventional than see to happen. But that's 1000 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:57.880 that's the plan. B. It's not the plan A. Right plan A 1001 01:14:58.119 --> 01:15:00.760 is write something that blows people in it what you've seen before. If people 1002 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:03.439 go, oh my god, even if I can't buy this script. I 1003 01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:05.760 want to meet this writer. I want to work with this writer. I 1004 01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:09.560 love this writing. I would love to work with this writers. That's your 1005 01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:12.359 job. Get a bunch of relationships, to get a bunch of people excited 1006 01:15:12.399 --> 01:15:16.119 about you. Maybe that turns into a job, maybe it doesn't. But 1007 01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:18.479 if it doesn't, you have all these sands who want to work with you. 1008 01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:24.439 They're buy another script, a whole another shot, has something happening somewhere 1009 01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:28.960 down the road. Yeah, and I've seen this with someone like clients to 1010 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:32.560 students. Then they'll have that conversation with their agent or narager and maybe then 1011 01:15:32.680 --> 01:15:38.640 they will say, all right, why don't we write to this target. 1012 01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:41.840 There's a little bit more of a commercials target, so we can at least 1013 01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:44.840 get you some money. You can at least start to get your track record. 1014 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:48.479 But while you're doing that, keep writing your original stuff on the side, 1015 01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:53.600 because when one of those things break, that's how you become an aimless 1016 01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:57.039 writer. You know. So you think about Earns Target, you think about 1017 01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:00.439 Alan Ball, you think about Davis Side like Clay the script that makes them 1018 01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:04.800 or Eric Singer, you know, and you look at a script like American 1019 01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:10.359 hustle. It's not following the paradigm. It's not conventionally structure script. It's 1020 01:16:10.359 --> 01:16:14.119 so uniquely structured, spread with unique strider of scripts. And now even the 1021 01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:18.720 A S Rider. You know, the guys who wrote The Knick, they 1022 01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:23.079 they had in the late next career. They're doing comedy. You know, 1023 01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:27.760 they're not competing for jobs or landing jobs making good money. They write the 1024 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:31.119 script the Nick. It's perfect authentic, you know, not following the paradigm's 1025 01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:36.560 altfolling the formula. It's original, it's unique. And now after the first 1026 01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:42.159 year of the NRE, you know, studio heads are taking them out to 1027 01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:46.680 dinner, stars are taking them outrecture, taking out basically a scent of them 1028 01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:55.159 chasing jobs. Sure, jobs are chasing them. And that's what happens when 1029 01:16:55.199 --> 01:17:00.439 you write one of these scripts and it hits, and yeah, be lucky 1030 01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:03.600 for it to hit. But even if it doesn't hit, it gets you 1031 01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:08.000 in a room with a really scott to pitch stuff. So that's why you 1032 01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:14.319 get the marriage are looking for this. So all I know is that I'm 1033 01:17:14.359 --> 01:17:17.560 getting more and more people in the industry sending me writers to work with me. 1034 01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:23.920 Because people will say these writers have all a great sense of dialogue. 1035 01:17:24.560 --> 01:17:27.039 You can really write actions that can really do common They can really do this, 1036 01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:30.840 they can really do that, but they don't know. They're just formulized. 1037 01:17:31.600 --> 01:17:35.159 I get a lot of MFA students who've been taught that sort of traditional 1038 01:17:35.239 --> 01:17:40.359 film school approach, which really made sense in the eighties, made a lot 1039 01:17:40.399 --> 01:17:45.680 of sense in the nineties, kind of stopped making sense seven years ago. 1040 01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:53.359 And now it's the kiss Aten, Now, what what's the difference with your 1041 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:56.279 students? Can you tell the ones who are going to have success and the 1042 01:17:56.319 --> 01:18:02.039 ones are gonna probably drop off? No, And I've really tried to stay 1043 01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:06.239 blind to that. I really think it's important that when I work with everybody, 1044 01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:12.560 it gets the exact same focus and exact same enthusiasm. And the other 1045 01:18:12.680 --> 01:18:18.119 thing, though, is I have worked with people who I privately thought were 1046 01:18:18.159 --> 01:18:23.640 some of the worst writers I ever like, just like privately was like, 1047 01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:29.479 I just don't see that their mountain is so high to CLI like, their 1048 01:18:29.560 --> 01:18:36.880 weaknesses and blind slots are so abundant, and I've seen them become amazing writers 1049 01:18:38.760 --> 01:18:42.000 and and go on, and I'm not going to name names obviously, but 1050 01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:45.960 have really good careers certainly it's not true of all of them, but it's 1051 01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:55.560 happened enough that it's got me to realize my suspect, doesn't it. It 1052 01:18:55.680 --> 01:19:00.800 doesn't matter where you start. It matters where you enter, and it matters 1053 01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:06.159 how committed you are, how growth mindset you are, how willing you are 1054 01:19:06.680 --> 01:19:10.439 to put in the work. But put in the right amount of work. 1055 01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:14.159 There's a kind of work because that's where dedicated factors comes in. So a 1056 01:19:14.279 --> 01:19:17.119 lot of people buy into this idea that if you want to be really good, 1057 01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:19.279 just keep writing. The more you write, the better you'll get. 1058 01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:25.399 It's not true for most people. The more they write, they certainly start 1059 01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:30.520 learning from mistakes. They certainly do get somewhat it's better, but there's core 1060 01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:36.560 weaknesses and blowing spots they don't know. There's just consistent mistakes they make. 1061 01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:42.560 But so the more they write, they just end up with a larger pile 1062 01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:45.319 of similarly to flawed scripts, they get a feeling they can't get past. 1063 01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:55.039 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to 1064 01:19:55.119 --> 01:20:00.439 the show. A lot of my students come from that space, and so 1065 01:20:00.600 --> 01:20:09.760 what they get excited about is are there actual exercises that can teach skill that 1066 01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:15.960 can teach tools that can make them actually significantly get better. I'll see if 1067 01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:19.680 you are, because we've been talking this sort of exactly and I have to 1068 01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:24.359 go in a little bit and it's been a while, but i'll give if 1069 01:20:24.359 --> 01:20:27.680 we have time, I can give one example of one of these skill sets. 1070 01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:31.000 So at least this is at all left in the app track. Okay, 1071 01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:34.800 yeah, I mean that would be good. Okay. So one of 1072 01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:40.079 the skill sets is what I would call creative imization, and it basically goes 1073 01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:45.520 down like that. Most writers, when you write, you can work from 1074 01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:50.960 a conceptual place or an intuitive place, and these are very different muscles and 1075 01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:56.640 very different approaches, and most writers are wired to work one or the other. 1076 01:20:56.720 --> 01:21:01.880 So conceptual writers and intuitive writers. That's so conceptual writers tend to write 1077 01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:08.399 outside in and in. Tutor writers send to work inside out. Conceptual writers 1078 01:21:08.439 --> 01:21:14.439 send to When they're working, they're very focused on what other people will be 1079 01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:18.239 thinking. They're very focused on plotting, They're very focused on logic, making 1080 01:21:18.239 --> 01:21:24.680 sure things, make things are properly set up, pacing, having interesting things 1081 01:21:24.800 --> 01:21:30.439 happening. Contutor writers have a very different navigation. They are working from an 1082 01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:33.159 authentic place. They're working from a place, So what's interesting to them, 1083 01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:39.319 what's true to the character, what would the character really do? A very 1084 01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:43.560 different space. A conceptual writer tends to be somebody who would say, I've 1085 01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:47.239 got to figure out my story before I write it, where an in tutor 1086 01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:51.359 writer would say, and you know, write my story so that I can 1087 01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:59.119 figure it out. Very different and so their scripts get there's a different experience 1088 01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:04.319 screen the script. For instance, let's talk about characters. Conceptual writers invent 1089 01:22:04.479 --> 01:22:11.920 their characters. They design their characters, and so the characters never feel real, 1090 01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:15.079 they feel invensive. They on some levels feel a little bit like puppet 1091 01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:23.279 who've been created at least some times to serve the plot. And these writers 1092 01:22:24.399 --> 01:22:30.479 often have great ideas, they concepts, good plotting that where they're following short 1093 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:34.680 in the marketplace. If their characters aren't strong enough. Intuitive writers, it's 1094 01:22:34.720 --> 01:22:40.960 a very different experience. Intuitive writers don't invense the characters. They don't design 1095 01:22:41.119 --> 01:22:46.399 the characters. They discover their characters, and their characters are like real people 1096 01:22:46.439 --> 01:22:54.840 to them and real people to us, and they speak like real characters or 1097 01:22:54.920 --> 01:22:59.479 real people, and you can feel that they are like real characters. Black. 1098 01:23:00.399 --> 01:23:03.640 The intuitive mine is so focused on what is authentic, what the characters 1099 01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:11.680 really do. These writers can't construct strong stories, so they have great characters 1100 01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:15.880 always in search of a strong story, where conceptual writers have all the story 1101 01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:20.199 worked out that they don't have strong characters, and it gets worse than them 1102 01:23:20.680 --> 01:23:25.880 with conception. Most conceptual writers, when you read their work, there's all 1103 01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:30.640 all this interesting thing happening, all these interesting events are happening. It's just 1104 01:23:30.680 --> 01:23:35.920 not interesting because you don't feel anything when you read it, because they didn't 1105 01:23:35.960 --> 01:23:40.840 feel anything when they read the the different space that they're working in here. 1106 01:23:41.399 --> 01:23:45.319 And so you've got these writers who can get half of the equations but not 1107 01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:51.119 the other half. And here's the problem. Everybody always write in a way 1108 01:23:51.199 --> 01:23:55.640 to try to get the best possible script. You know, if you've been 1109 01:23:55.720 --> 01:23:58.439 hired by selling a studio or a network, you obviously want to write the 1110 01:23:58.479 --> 01:24:01.520 best possible script. If you have an agent or a manager, you want 1111 01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:05.079 them to love your script and champion it and take it out and change your 1112 01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:08.720 life with it. If you don't have an agent or a manager, you 1113 01:24:08.800 --> 01:24:12.039 want to write a really great script that you can get an agent or a 1114 01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:14.720 manager. Or what was kind of new in the game and you're like, 1115 01:24:14.800 --> 01:24:17.000 I'm not ready for an agent or a manager. You're probably trying to write 1116 01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:21.960 the best possible script so that you can feel that you're not wasting your time 1117 01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:26.640 and that people you show your script to, yeah, maybe you know there's 1118 01:24:26.680 --> 01:24:30.479 going to be issues with it. At least the kind of feedback you guests 1119 01:24:30.159 --> 01:24:34.520 leads you to believe you might have a shot and this isn't just a stupid 1120 01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:39.680 dream that they're chasing. So we're going to always try to write the best 1121 01:24:39.720 --> 01:24:44.800 scripts that we can write. And so what we do, knowingly or unknowingly 1122 01:24:45.079 --> 01:24:49.319 is we played our strength and hide our weaknesses, which is what we should 1123 01:24:49.399 --> 01:24:51.800 do. You know, if I'm trying to write my best possible script, 1124 01:24:53.039 --> 01:24:55.880 I should play to my strength and hide and my weaknesses. Well, over 1125 01:24:56.000 --> 01:25:00.640 time, my strengths get stronger and stronger, and my weakn to get weaker 1126 01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.199 and weaker, and it's a big reason why writers can't get there. They 1127 01:25:03.239 --> 01:25:05.880 can't get to that level they need to get to. So one of the 1128 01:25:05.920 --> 01:25:12.119 skill sets that teach in my workshops is you're going to write to your weakness 1129 01:25:12.159 --> 01:25:15.119 and hind your ship. So if you're a conceptual writer, You're going to 1130 01:25:15.199 --> 01:25:18.279 work from a very intuitive place, so you can develop and strengthen them intuitive 1131 01:25:18.279 --> 01:25:21.640 side, and so your intuitive side as strong as your conceptual side. By 1132 01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:27.079 subversi, if you're an intuitive writer, you're working conceptual side, and so 1133 01:25:27.319 --> 01:25:32.800 the first step is identifying your weak side and developing that, focusing on that 1134 01:25:33.199 --> 01:25:38.479 until it becomes as strong as your strong side. And then the second step 1135 01:25:38.600 --> 01:25:43.880 is the actual creative integration, which is learning how to integrate these two sides 1136 01:25:44.159 --> 01:25:47.680 so that you can now write great characters and great story. Because pitch perfect 1137 01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:53.680 authentic, authentic means you have to be a rock star on the intuitive skill 1138 01:25:53.760 --> 01:25:57.840 set as an intuitive writer, and pitch perfect means you have to be a 1139 01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:02.840 rock star and a conceptual side. And most people are not integrated, and 1140 01:26:02.920 --> 01:26:08.680 they're writing practice leads to disintegration. So you know, you talk because structual 1141 01:26:08.680 --> 01:26:13.199 writers and you at what you're working on. It's always conceptualters hanging out in 1142 01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:15.600 the same space. You know, they do horror films, high concept horror 1143 01:26:15.640 --> 01:26:20.760 films that you thrillers, sci fi, big idea common these actions big plot 1144 01:26:21.399 --> 01:26:29.239 driven, concept driven material because they can kind of hide the fact that they're 1145 01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:32.880 not that great. A characters, the dialogue. Two diviriters are writing small, 1146 01:26:33.039 --> 01:26:41.680 quirky character emotional type material where it's all about the characters and the dialogue 1147 01:26:42.439 --> 01:26:45.479 and the emotion, kind of hiding the fact that they're not really that good 1148 01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:48.039 at story structure. Well, the thing is, there's a lot of people 1149 01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:55.119 out there who can write really good emotion character stuff that can't do story structure, 1150 01:26:55.159 --> 01:26:57.840 and nobody really cameters for the most part about those rights. We're looking 1151 01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:02.800 for writers that can do both. When of my students directing a soulment's coming 1152 01:27:02.800 --> 01:27:09.560 out in two weeks or heart structing as film for paramount comedies, texting it's 1153 01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:14.000 called drunk Weddings, it's just being really hot. And so there's a buzz 1154 01:27:14.039 --> 01:27:16.800 about this guy, and you know, he was complaining to me because he's 1155 01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:19.800 reading all these scripts with me for his next project. And there's all these 1156 01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:25.319 scripts. He says, they're really funny, great jokes, great structured, 1157 01:27:25.399 --> 01:27:30.439 great idea, that characters they just feel like stock characters and there's no heart 1158 01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:33.640 to it. And I'm just not gonna cook my career bag in up to 1159 01:27:33.680 --> 01:27:40.239 one of these scripts because and then I read scripts that like they are great 1160 01:27:40.359 --> 01:27:45.720 characters and there's a sense of like heart to it, but it's just there's 1161 01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:49.920 no story, there's no stakes. The structures all over the play because it's 1162 01:27:49.960 --> 01:27:54.760 so hard to find someone that can do both. And then his complaints hears 1163 01:27:54.760 --> 01:27:59.359 all the time because I finally find one of those scripts and of course he's 1164 01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:03.920 spoken for, you know, and and you know it's been bought by the 1165 01:28:04.079 --> 01:28:09.720 major player. You know, the big players. They're buying up all these 1166 01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:13.840 scripts because either they want to make it or they want to keep up and 1167 01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:18.720 coming competition from Build and makes those scripts. So you know, if someone's 1168 01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:25.039 listening to this and they're so great at a character, an emotion and dialogue, 1169 01:28:25.239 --> 01:28:29.279 if they can get better at structure and actually tell interesting stories like American 1170 01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:33.640 Duties, you know have both very rarified company and they will be fought after. 1171 01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:36.680 Vice the versa. If you have someone listened to this and they're really 1172 01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:41.800 good and they love horror film, they love it constant horror film or thrillers, 1173 01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:47.199 love budget or studio level comedy action would have you you can get better 1174 01:28:47.239 --> 01:28:51.920 at the character, firm and the and have some genuine emotion in there, 1175 01:28:54.680 --> 01:28:58.319 man, you stand out. You stand out because there's just so a few 1176 01:28:58.359 --> 01:29:00.159 people that can do them. So that an example one of the things that 1177 01:29:00.399 --> 01:29:04.159 work up in the workshop, and it's called creative integration. You know, 1178 01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:08.680 for those of you listening, if you're interesting in this, going on my 1179 01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:15.159 website it's Coreymandel dot net. You know, I teach something called professional screenwriting 1180 01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:19.720 the Workshop, which is the Foundational Workshop, and it teaches conceptual and then 1181 01:29:19.760 --> 01:29:25.960 through the skill set for eight weeks. And sorry inference in the commercial that 1182 01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:29.079 I'll help you quick with it. We do it. We do it in 1183 01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:31.520 LA, in Santa Monica, and if you don't live in LA, or 1184 01:29:31.680 --> 01:29:34.079 if you do so in LA, we do it online using web acts. 1185 01:29:34.119 --> 01:29:38.000 So if you take another online clapses. This is like real time. So 1186 01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:40.960 it's like going to a quick and mortar class. You can see and hear 1187 01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:45.600 everybody. You just get to be at your computer and can We've had writers 1188 01:29:45.640 --> 01:29:49.600 taken from all over the world. We'll be right back after a word from 1189 01:29:49.640 --> 01:30:01.600 our sponsor and now back to the show. The uh. The June ones 1190 01:30:01.680 --> 01:30:04.159 are sold out. We tend to be about six months out. She'll be 1191 01:30:04.199 --> 01:30:08.680 doing them in September and those are starting to sell out. That there's still 1192 01:30:08.760 --> 01:30:13.119 spaces if you really wanted to do the June one. You can email my 1193 01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:16.880 assistant and she could put it on the waitlist, and sometimes a spot don't 1194 01:30:16.920 --> 01:30:24.079 open. So my website Corey Mendel dot net and my assistant is Lisa, 1195 01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:28.239 So she's Lisa at Corey Mendel dot net. If you want to email me 1196 01:30:29.199 --> 01:30:33.159 Corey at Corey Mendel dot net, and those emails are on the website, 1197 01:30:33.199 --> 01:30:38.880 which is callymndell dot net. Everything I suggest is signed up for the newsletter. 1198 01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:42.479 We will often we do that once a month interview an agent or interview 1199 01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:47.319 manager will interview letter to sold script. So that might be of interest. 1200 01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:53.199 But and I know that we were talking a long time. I think, 1201 01:30:53.319 --> 01:30:58.319 you know, let's see what's their spons is from your listeners. Maybe people 1202 01:30:58.319 --> 01:31:00.359 to think of a big blowhard, but if you for it, people are 1203 01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:04.039 interested in this stuff you want. I'm happy to come back and talk about 1204 01:31:04.079 --> 01:31:08.279 more of the skills. I think we talked a lot about sort of the 1205 01:31:08.359 --> 01:31:12.119 marketplace and agents the managers are thinking and looking for. And we talk a 1206 01:31:12.159 --> 01:31:15.399 lot about mistakes. People make it and let me have to accomplish. But 1207 01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:19.920 we haven't really And I know this is what your latter questions were but this 1208 01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:23.920 ulthor subject of Okay, how do you actually do it? What are you 1209 01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:28.239 skill? I could certainly talk more about that if you want it. You 1210 01:31:28.279 --> 01:31:30.840 know, if there is interest from your listeners and you want to have me 1211 01:31:30.920 --> 01:31:32.359 back, I'd be happy to do it. Yeah, man, that would 1212 01:31:32.359 --> 01:31:35.079 definitely be great. I mean there's even the stuff that you were just talking 1213 01:31:35.119 --> 01:31:39.439 about that I would love to go further into detail with. But yeah, 1214 01:31:39.479 --> 01:31:42.399 we would need more time. So but yeah, I really appreciate it, 1215 01:31:42.439 --> 01:31:45.159 and we you know, let's definitely do like a part two sometime when we 1216 01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:49.039 get more into actual screenwriting and structuring and all the you know, the nuts 1217 01:31:49.079 --> 01:31:53.039 and bolts of it all. Love to do it all right, man, 1218 01:31:53.119 --> 01:31:55.279 Well, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot for coming on the show, 1219 01:31:55.319 --> 01:31:59.880 and you know, I want to thank Jason so much for doing such a 1220 01:32:00.079 --> 01:32:01.880 rate job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we 1221 01:32:01.960 --> 01:32:05.600 spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting 1222 01:32:05.640 --> 01:32:10.000 dot TV. Forward slash three thirty two. Thank you so much for listening 1223 01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:13.560 to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk 1224 01:32:13.560 --> 01:32:18.079 to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting 1225 01:32:18.199 --> 01:32:18.720 dot tv.