WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:03.600 Hello everybody, Welcome back to Desks and Doork's, your favorite board game design 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:06.919 and creation podcast that has always brought to you by you. I am Kyle 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:12.759 and I am joined as always by my illustrious co host Graham Gains. Let's 4 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.239 up everybody real quick before we start this episode. If you have not gotten 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:18.519 yourself a copy of After the Rain, you could do so on an indie 6 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:22.039 press revolution. And if you're listening to this episode, it's already too late 7 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:27.359 and I'm inside your walls. And also we have started the actual publication process 8 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:31.160 of if you're within at this point, cover sheets have been printed out and 9 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:34.799 the books are being compiled and they'll be stapled and then actually sent out to 10 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.359 everybody soon. So if you're listening to this and you backtiss on Gigstarter, 11 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:42.159 congratulations, your copy will be coming soon. If you did not get a 12 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.960 copy and you'd be interested in doing so, now we're looking at updating the 13 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.479 Desks and Doorc's digital storefront so that you can actually order a physical copy of 14 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:54.359 the book directly from us. So very exciting and a great segue because today 15 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:58.640 we get to talk all about role playing games. I'm, first of allmost 16 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:02.719 I'm just really excited about the episode. I am too, because I feel 17 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:07.560 like it's You've been doing a lot of a lot of good YouTube content this 18 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.239 past week, and honestly, I don't know what's more shocking. You're blistering 19 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:21.079 tier list of RPGs uh or the other one about the uh about Cyclopean where 20 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:27.879 you compared me to one of history's most famous hucksters and frauds. Um Listen, 21 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:33.159 There's there's two things that happened on YouTube this week that I'm just like, 22 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.719 oh my god. You know, like I know, the PG Barnum 23 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:38.920 thing was supposed to be a compliment, but that's been Like Graham, you 24 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:42.959 know, he's such a people person. He's he's he's like the Bernie made 25 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:49.760 off of RPG. Seriously, really that bad of a historical figure? I 26 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.400 I think, so yeah, Like I have to do more reading then. 27 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.680 I mean, you know, the Greatest Showman is like one thing, but 28 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.680 like, oh man, he lied, he cheated. Uh he he like 29 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:08.560 bought a black woman like after slavery was like, uh what abolished? Uh? 30 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:13.919 He's you know, the like sucker born every minute. Probably not true, 31 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.879 but yeah, he's Oh my god, I'm so sorry. If I 32 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:19.080 had known half of that, I would have found a better hype man to 33 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:23.879 compare you too. Yeah, like Bernie Madoff, Like Bernie Madoff and all 34 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:28.639 of that. And you're you're probably still more pissed off about some of my 35 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:32.039 RPG opinions. Oh absolutely, Uh. I think I think I'll clear the 36 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:35.680 air by just like dropping a few on. Yeah, what are some I 37 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:40.479 was filling out a little bit right here. I'll blaze through them for you, 38 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:46.960 knock us off into your first tail from the table. Let's go with 39 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:53.080 Arcanum S tire baldriss Gate A tier baldriss Gate two S Tire chron Tigger Stier 40 00:02:53.800 --> 00:03:00.599 Dao Sex stre Dao Sex Human Revolution B tire Dao Sex Human hugh Kind Divided, 41 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:06.719 man Kind divided C tier uh Divinity Original Sin two A tier Dog Dragons 42 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:13.520 Dogma Ctier followed one S tier followed two S tier uh Ice Windale B tier 43 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:20.439 Ice Windale two A tier, Kingdoms of Amlar, Reckoning D tier Cotur two 44 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:24.960 btier Never Winter Nights B tier are the expansions are you? Are you more 45 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:29.319 offended by my opinions or the fact that most of the ones that you mentioned, 46 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.360 I haven't played. No no, no, no, no, uh 47 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:37.159 you you did give Plainscape Torment a B tier, which is bizarre. But 48 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:39.919 I but like, but I got stuck on P T. Barnum, so 49 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.639 I had to use one thing. One. Expansions for Never Winter Night are 50 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:51.879 S tier. Uh. Never Winter Nights two C tier, except for the 51 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.800 Masket betray Or expansion that's S tier. Uh. Pathfinder Kingmaker B tier, 52 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:01.000 Pillars of Eternity A tier, Pillars of Eternity two A tier. Uh, 53 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:08.000 Shadow Run sn s C tier, Shadow Run Returns B tier Shadow Shadow Run, 54 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:12.680 Dragonfall S Tier big S tier. Okay, there's just Shock Star, 55 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:17.120 Sister Chuck two S tire Torment, Tides of New Minera B tier, okay. 56 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:23.120 Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, which I finally finished is recently. I'm solid 57 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:28.279 A tier Man Whicher one D tier. Yeah, that's there, you go, 58 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:30.680 there you go. I filled out it filled out your list. That's 59 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:34.319 that's fair, that's fair. Which one gets. Listen, it's an exciting 60 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:38.839 D tier, but it's a D that that seems reasonable. You know you 61 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.600 like you like sky Rim and which are more than I do. But that's 62 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.519 fine. I do. I know I like Dragon Age more than you do 63 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.720 that well, I like Origins pretty well, but you love I love the 64 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.160 Origins. May be sad when it was finished because I was like, man, 65 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:55.800 I wish they could experience this is another time. And then I played 66 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.639 Dragon Age the other dragon Ages, and they were not they were not nearly 67 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:02.240 as good, which they were not. But that's a great segue. Um, 68 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.240 you know, much like Pt. Bardam being the master of segus and 69 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:10.600 also the master of being a terrible person. Apparently. So today we're gonna 70 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:13.000 be doing tales from the table. This is gonna be a little bit different 71 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.040 than our usual formats. Usually Graham and I have like a topic we discuss, 72 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.839 we talk about like our favorite things, or we rank them. Um, 73 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:20.399 you're not in a tier list necessarily, but in a numbered list, 74 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.040 but I hope so we need more tier lists. We do need more tier 75 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:27.240 lists. I mean, hey, listen, you said you want to do 76 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.639 more midweek content. I do. We can do a tier list together at 77 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.600 some point. I'll even let you pick what the tier list is. And 78 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:39.360 if it's all Oreo flavors again, I made all do spaghettios, I'll do 79 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:46.079 Chef Boy or du you know, Kanye West albums. Yeah, I guess 80 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.040 he's yea now more than anything, we're getting getting sidetracked. But there's the 81 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:54.439 thing. So if you are hoping for a list episode or something with that's 82 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:57.839 focused around a certain topic or a theme, it's not gonna happen today. 83 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.480 What is going to happen today is just some good old fashioned storytelling. Graham 84 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.519 and I've been playing RPGs for a very very very very very long time, 85 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:10.680 and this is a chance for us to sit back, relax, and just 86 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.199 share some of our favorite RPG moments that we've ever had. So I have 87 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.120 a drink. I would encourage all of you if you're listening to the podcast, 88 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:23.160 pause it, go get your beverage of your choice. Mine is off 89 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:29.959 brand Seltzer water, and sit back and just enjoy. I would love to 90 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.040 hear some of your favorite moments. Not your gram because I'm gonna hear yours 91 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.079 about twenty secods, but I'm yeah. But those of you who are listening, 92 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:39.160 if you are interested, please let us know in the comments below. 93 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.120 If you're watching this on YouTube, or if you're listening to this on any 94 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:45.199 of your favorite podcasting sites, should just a message over at desks and dorks 95 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.399 dot Org. It'd be great. I would absolutely love to hear some of 96 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:53.319 other people's favorite stories, because the one thing I think that brings everyone together 97 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:59.319 about RPGs is that we all have crazy stories about playing on rpg and that's 98 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:00.879 what keeps us come back. It's that human element. I don't think it's 99 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.680 the rules or the systems of an RPG, at least not for me, 100 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.240 that keeps me coming back, But it's the experiences that I have with other 101 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:12.600 people. And I'm super excited to hear yours, Graham. I'm excited to 102 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.199 hear some of mine, and I would love to hear more from everybody else. 103 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.279 So sit back, kick back, have a drink, grab a snack, 104 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:21.639 and we're gonna we're gonna get into Tails from the Table. And if 105 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:26.560 people like this, maybe we will do another Tales from the Table episode. 106 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.040 I picked three or four of my all time favorite moments that I have ever 107 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.680 had from RPGs, and yeah, I'm just I'm excited and I'm ready to 108 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.519 go. Though though, I had like a list of like fifty or sixteen 109 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.680 things, and I was like, I would love to talk about any of 110 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.959 these, but you know, here's what we got so yeah, I thought 111 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.680 about my life as a as a role player and a designer in terms of 112 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:54.000 continuity. So I started picking out these different stories which were either like breakthrough 113 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.040 moments for me or things where I learned something about what was happening, or 114 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.279 things where the script was changed. So I thought about it broadly in terms 115 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:05.959 of like how these pieces connected, which is how I'm excited to kind of 116 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.879 link these different anecdotes together. Yeah, I did not do that. I 117 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.000 picked I just thought about I literally just I sat down and I do what 118 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.759 I did. What I do for any time I have to make a really 119 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.240 important decision, because I'm a big believer in that a lot of times people 120 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:24.720 try to ignore their first instinct. Well, they'll try to talk themselves out 121 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:28.680 of doing what their initial gut reaction is. And this is something that comes 122 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.839 up in therapy too, by the way, which I think is really cool, 123 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.960 is like someone would be like, Okay, what's the first thing that 124 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.519 comes to your mind when you deal with this feeling or this experience, And 125 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.000 a lot of times people tend to ignore that. And so I literally asked 126 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.480 the question of myself, what's the best thing that's ever happened in RPG, 127 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.080 and it was the first three or four things that popped my head. I 128 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.120 circled those immediately. I made my list out. But at the end of 129 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.840 the day, those first three or four things were the ones that were there, 130 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.440 because when I think about what's the best time that I had playing an 131 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:01.879 RPG, it's these three or four things. And so I've got more. 132 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.960 This is not an exhaustive list of the amazing things that I've gotten to experienced 133 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:07.799 playing RPGs. But I was just like, I want to talk about the 134 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.720 things that resonated the most clearly with me and with my memories and so and 135 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:13.799 with some games too. And I tried to mix it up a little bit 136 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.080 too, but like in terms of game, but a lot of these, 137 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.360 a lot of these rhyme with fungeon maggins. If we're being, yeah, 138 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:26.039 we're being That's where I started. So you know, all right, I'm 139 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:26.559 ready, Graham. Do you want to kick us off? You want me 140 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.559 to kick I would alive for you to kick us off. All right, 141 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.919 So we're going to talk about one of my favorite moments that has ever happened 142 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:35.799 in the game of Dungeons Dragons. For those of you who don't know three 143 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.240 point five is the addition that I cut my teeth on. I started in 144 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:41.360 three, but I cut my teeth in three point five is the addition that 145 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.639 I love the most. It is the RPG that I think is my favorite's 146 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:46.799 my favorite addition of D and D. And it's a no contest for me. 147 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.440 But the people that I have played Dungeons and Dragons with more than anybody 148 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.200 are my younger brother front of the show, Colin, who's in Australia right 149 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.960 now, and my cousin Joe Um. So every summer, my cousin who 150 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.159 lives in New York, Um, we would drive up to go see him, 151 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.159 and it was basically it would be him, my brother, and me 152 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:15.919 and the three of us would essentially have the run of this run, the 153 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.240 run of his house because his dad worked. My uncle is like a lawyer 154 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.960 and not lawyer, but he worked for the law school up in Syracuse, 155 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.360 and so he would work really long hours and so essentially you had these three 156 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:30.200 teenage kids who had a full run of this house. He would just leave 157 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.919 us a pile of like cash and the car keys. Literally it was it 158 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.559 was insane, and I forgot. I forgot. You were born a decade 159 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.200 before me in the Latchkey Kid eighties. Yeah right, so it was how 160 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.759 many how many neighborhood sheds did you burn down accidentally? At No neighborhood sheds, 161 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.000 thankfully, But what would happen was I think if we were probably more 162 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.360 troublemaking kids, I think this would have been worse. So let me set 163 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.120 the stage. They love to Douneon the Dragons. If I was crazy about 164 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:05.879 Dune the Dragons, Joe and Colin at that age loved it, probably more 165 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:13.039 than me. My brother is the consummate engineer's brain where he wants to see 166 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:18.240 a problem and break it. Colin has made more characters, I think than 167 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:24.320 most people have written anything for D and D. Like cleaning up our basement, 168 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.679 I found a binder of like one hundred and twenty eight character sheets. 169 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.159 Yeah, and these were not in like the printed off ones. These were 170 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:37.279 the handwritten ones. So he had stat blocks, He had characters for different 171 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:43.600 situations, He had them flagged by party composition, for strategy. He would 172 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:48.440 surf forums to learn like busted character builds. That was like his whole stick. 173 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:54.440 And my cousin was just like I could just do a bunch of jank 174 00:11:54.799 --> 00:12:01.399 nonsense, like if Colin was optimizing it for utter efficiency, my Cousin's like, 175 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:05.200 what's the weirdest garbage that I can throw together at this moment? Right, 176 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.960 And so the two of them were obsessed. And what this meant was 177 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:16.120 I would run a series of campaigns every single summer for us. So we 178 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.759 would go out, we would do whatever chaos we're going to do, and 179 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.600 we would come back and we played Dudgeon of Dragons for anywhere from two to 180 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:26.720 eight hours, and it was awesome. So this is what I call the 181 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:33.279 Charades incident. In keeping with jank nonsense, my cousin is wizard and decides 182 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:41.360 he's going to take the spell comprehend languages and detect thoughts Detect thoughts. I'm 183 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:43.919 like, okay, cool, you get some cool stuff for those of you 184 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.960 not in the know. When you're a wizard in three point five, you 185 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.639 get higher level spells sooner. So these were more powerful spells that he was 186 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.879 getting at an earlier level because of his class. Usually you'll take stuff like 187 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.679 scorching Ray, which lets you disintegrate people by like pointing a finger at them 188 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.879 and then just instantly evaporating a dust, or like some in monster or like 189 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:09.559 orb of Fire, and my cousin is like, comprehend languages, let's go 190 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:18.559 nonsense. This culminates in, but it winds up paying off. They wind 191 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:24.000 up showing up to this ocean town that is having trouble with a sea monster 192 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.759 I had thrown in a sea monster that had been I was looking at the 193 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:28.840 monster manual, I was like, all right, cool, this is a 194 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.559 sea monster. It was like a sea lion I think is the actual name 195 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:37.039 of it. Challengeating five, perfect for two adventurers. They go and fight 196 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.399 it and they get absolutely dumpstered. I mean, they got annihilated by this 197 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:46.120 thing. So they go back to town and they're trying. They're licking their 198 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:48.679 wounds and trying to figure out, like, crap, are we supposed to 199 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:50.960 get past this thing. I'm looking at the monster manual, I go, 200 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.399 oh, this thing speaks, doesn't speak, but it has an intelligent score 201 00:13:54.879 --> 00:14:03.200 and it understands aquin as a language. And so my cousin Jess goes detect 202 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.440 thoughts the next time that they saw it, and he hears it. It's 203 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:24.559 internal monologue in its little Mermaid was no a reel surface orel please wow? 204 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:33.720 Yeah, it's anyway, So he clearly hears intelligible thoughts in this thing's head. 205 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.960 It's he's hearing its internal monologue, and he goes, I got it. 206 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:43.480 I cast comprend languages, right, So of course right it was. 207 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.759 It was perfect. It was the wonderful serendipity of me looking at a part 208 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.799 of the staff block. I had never even considered my cousin choosing the absolute 209 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:56.519 most jank nonsense spell in the entirety of that edition that he could have picked. 210 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.960 And then my brother comes in, because when Colin can't beat a problem 211 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:09.159 with raw talent and power, he'll just improv So my cousin understands what the 212 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:16.879 creature is saying internally, but neither of them speak the language that it understands. 213 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.679 And what this epic boss battle fight devolved into was my brother on the 214 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:31.320 prow of this boat gesticulating with his arms while my cousin is yelling from the 215 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.840 other side of the boat telling him what the thing is thinking, and trying 216 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:41.919 to get this massive like seven foot tall half orc barbarian who essentially plays charades 217 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:46.000 with this sea monster. And none of it was done with dice rolls. 218 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:52.519 It was a literal game of charades that was played between myself, my brother, 219 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.279 and my cousin, and it was done entirely in character, and it 220 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.960 wound up being one of the best moments in that RPG entirely, and I 221 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.639 awarded them bonus experience. They got whatever, But it was such a great 222 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:10.480 moment because it's it's like a little crystallization of everything that I love about a 223 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.200 dungeon, the Dragon's experience. It is creative problem solving. It is of 224 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.120 course, you're just it's the personalization. Of course I'm going to take the 225 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:19.320 random nonsense spell. Who knows when it will come in handy, And it 226 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:22.320 just so happened it came in here, and it was a great example of 227 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:27.279 a collaborative storytelling effort on the part of the myself as the DM, and 228 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:32.279 the players at the table. It is one of my favorite Like I could 229 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:36.080 look at my brother or my cousin now we were like fourteen, I think 230 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.519 when we did this, Yeah, and I could say the Sea Monster Charades 231 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.279 incident, and the two of them will immediately know what I'm talking about, 232 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.960 and we will regale each other with tales of that day as if we are 233 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:51.799 like war heroes. It is it's ingrained in our brains, and it remains 234 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:57.960 one of my favorite RPG moments that I've ever had. I've just imagine is 235 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:00.759 he keeps saying, like sea monster, but you call it a sea lion. 236 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.440 It is now I'm sea lion. I'm just imagining that it's just like 237 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:10.000 a slightly bigger than normal sea lion. So no, no, no, 238 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.839 no, no, no no, no, you're not You're not allowed. 239 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:18.720 That's your story. And because of kind of the magic trick of the collaborative 240 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:23.000 hallucination that is role playing games, you say one thing and everybody starts thinking 241 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.839 it. My example is always like you're in a graveyard, and then everyone's 242 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.640 thinking about different graveyards, like some people have big tubstone, some people it's 243 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.799 all overgrown, you know. Otherwise. So you said sea lion, and 244 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.720 so you're talking about this like sea monster. And usually when I think sea 245 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.440 monster is like a crack in something huge, you know, overwhelming. But 246 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:42.680 you just said sea lion. So I'm just like, oh, it's just 247 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:47.920 like a slightly bigger than normal sea lion, and you're talking about this epic 248 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:52.519 experience, and I'm just imagining it's very confused sea lion being like what okay, 249 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.279 all right, I just want fish man. You're like, uh, 250 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.359 that's how we cut our teeth. It's it's true role playing hero thinking. 251 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.599 For those of you who have not listened to this, the sea lion is 252 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:11.119 a giant like predatory cat monster with a mermaid tail the size of a buick. 253 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.359 Like, that's basically what. It's a sea lion. You know, 254 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:18.559 you an of the zoo all we've all seen that thing. All seen sea 255 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.200 lions right next to the beholder. It's it's not it's not an owl bear. 256 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:27.160 It's a literal sea lion. Like it's it's it's just a pinaped doing 257 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:32.960 its thing. Um So, to transition to my first story, I want 258 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.839 to ask you a question, Kyle, or it's not about sea lions. 259 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:38.640 We'll do the sea lion tier list later, you know, maybe next week 260 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:44.440 on YouTube. What was the first character you ever made? Uh? The 261 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:51.480 first character that I can remember making was a halfwork Uh. It was a 262 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.200 halfwork fighter, halfwork fighter as a half fork fighter. Was the first character 263 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.839 that I remember fully remember remember their name. I don't. I don't remember 264 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.240 his name. I made two. This is just is gonna sound awful. 265 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:08.119 I have played dungeons and Dragons as a player twice. That's insane in my 266 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.599 entire life, I've played it twice as a character. Um, but I 267 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:18.440 remember both. I remember what was his name, law school Lazul. I 268 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:19.519 remember the other one. I had a half fork fighter and a half our 269 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.079 druid. Um. I remember half fork Druid's name. He was gaz okon 270 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.839 the path Breaker. That's pretty good. That was pretty It was pretty good. 271 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.200 This was a you could do. This is back when you could do 272 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.680 like Races of Destiny was a three point five things. Yeah, there was 273 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:38.119 a beast tamer druid and that's what I was right. Um so uh so 274 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:45.200 there's there are some crossovers with our kind of origin story to RP. I 275 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.200 too have a brother, but I have an older brother got out to Shamus 276 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.960 h. Shamus Um introduced me to a lot of things growing up, because 277 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:57.960 he was four years older than May and five years ahead in school. So, 278 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.400 um, my dad got us into comp books. We'd move around a 279 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.559 lot every few years and we'd always be looking for whatever the new comp book 280 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:14.200 stores were. I started playing Magic the Gathering in nineteen hundred and ninety five 281 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:22.279 because my brother found out about magic from true story Newsweek. So the nerd 282 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:27.319 rolls downhill like imagine, like how cool nerd? You know, imagine the 283 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:32.559 gathering is particularly like it it's heyday. But my brother was the kind of 284 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:36.480 nerd who was like, you know, ten and red Newsweek and was like, 285 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:38.119 oh, this card game. So it was just me and him, 286 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:44.400 and you know, I went to people's houses and like saw largely video game 287 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.440 RPGs, and so the numbers came at me, flying in the air. 288 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:53.079 And I've always been a writer kid and a theater kid. I when we 289 00:20:53.160 --> 00:21:00.279 got our first computer, our Windows three point one, I was writing these 290 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.160 like children's books and praying them out and like doing illustrations and stuff. And 291 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:10.839 Pretend is the best game in the world. Yeah, And like literally every 292 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:15.759 game I played with my toys or friends on the playground, they were all 293 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:21.640 Pretend And so I absolutely adored it and was like writing as much as I 294 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:26.680 could and performing as much as I could. And so being having an older 295 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.559 brother who was in high school meant that I too started on three point out 296 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.680 in two thousand and the year two thousand we had the Adventure Begins Box, 297 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.799 and I can still vividly remember, and I was utterly obsessed. You've talked 298 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:45.200 about your cousin Joe that's his name and Colin being the obsessed people. That 299 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:51.000 was me. From the moment I found D and D, I was completely 300 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.720 hooked. I played it as much as possible, I ran in as much 301 00:21:53.759 --> 00:22:00.319 as possible. I feel like the common story with people's lives, just like 302 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.160 Oh, I played a little bit in high school. But it was so 303 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:03.720 fun. I haven't, you know, haven't played a long time. That 304 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.799 was never me. If I couldn't find people to play with, I would 305 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.400 find people and I would teach them. Imagine I'm like a P. T. 306 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.119 Barnum Bernie made Off kind of figure, but for role playing image. 307 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.720 So the first game, the first game of dn D I ever played. 308 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.960 So I love that you said half work because I have made more half works 309 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:26.519 than any other any other kind of character in D and D. I think 310 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.920 half works are the best, the most exciting, than the most interesting. 311 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.119 Um and I always felt like they got a bad rap and uh, playing 312 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:38.079 them against type was always really exciting. Playing a wizard or a sorcerer and 313 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.400 people assuming that you were dumb was like, always really exciting. Um. 314 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:48.599 But my first D D character was an Elvin Munk. I loved the mugs. 315 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:51.400 The mugs were cool, and I liked all the limitations to it. 316 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:55.200 And so my brother was in a D and D game, ran by his 317 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:59.039 friend, and I was the little brother. They're sixth grade. They're at 318 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:00.039 the table with all these high schoolers. Are like, what is this lame 319 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.839 sixth grader doing there? I was so pumped. There was one other little 320 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.960 broth at the table, but he was older than me, and so they're 321 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:12.720 in the middle of this like big dungeon crawl. And so I remember vividly 322 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.519 how much I loved making the character because I gave myself all these little things 323 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.039 that I thought were going to help me on this great adventure. So I 324 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.559 wrote down that I wanted a hand mirror because I was gonna look around corners, 325 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:27.960 and I put down anti toxin because I was like, that sounds useful. 326 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.400 I don't know what I'm going to run into. And my brother's friends 327 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:38.279 were kind of weirdos and d bags, and they were just like warndering around 328 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.839 and like be in jerk coughs, and they would open up a room, 329 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.920 see the monsters, close the door, keep going. And I couldn't understand 330 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.799 because I was like, we're here to be adventurers, We're here to like 331 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.000 do things. But it was all just this like comical act and they kept 332 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.759 doing it over and over again. But I'm the tiny ten year old at 333 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.680 the table, so I didn't really know what to do. And eventually they 334 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:06.759 get to a room with a giant snake in it and they're like nope, 335 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.119 and they slam the door and I'm like okay, and they use my hand 336 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.119 mirror and I look around the corner and I see the huge snake and I'm 337 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.759 like, none of you are gonna go, and they're already gone. They've 338 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.880 gone up to the second floor and they're opening doors and closing them. So 339 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:22.599 I'm by myself and I get, you know what, No, this is 340 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.480 not why I came here today, And so I chuged my anti venom and 341 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:33.440 I leap into the room and already I feel like I'm on cloud nine because 342 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.720 I'm imagining my Elven monk hero one on one punching this snake and the other 343 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.559 little brother he's playing this dwarf and Claric. He decides he doesn't want to 344 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.000 leave me, so he does flesh the stone. He melts into the wall. 345 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:49.359 He starts chucking alchemists fires from his like spot in it. He hits 346 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:53.400 the snake and then fails. It hits me, and so we're both on 347 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:59.079 fire and my sixth grade brain is exploding from this image that I to this 348 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:04.039 day can't get over. I'm punching and slamming this huge snake and it's biting 349 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:07.240 me, and I'm crapped. We were both on fire. Well, everyone 350 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.200 else left, and you know what, I won. I beat that snake 351 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.599 myself, and so I'm still there, like I survived. I'm burning the 352 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:22.119 snake, the snakes, and I I could not believe what had happened. 353 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.480 It was the most excited I'd ever been at any point in my life reaching 354 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.240 that point. It was the high point of my life at that point, 355 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:34.119 and I realized I had been utterly hooked for the next three years. It 356 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:40.480 was all this kind of stuff. I in sixth grade. I was taking 357 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.200 my notebook to class and rolling. I have pages and pages and pages of 358 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:51.480 roll forty six drop the lowest, so you just have pages and pages and 359 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:56.400 pages of like me getting like stat sheets of that. I got in trouble 360 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:59.119 a lot in school. I don't know if that comes across. But I 361 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.880 got in schools, mention and various things, and so I would get all 362 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:06.440 my assignments, do them immediately, and then I'm stuck in the corner and 363 00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:12.359 I'm making dungeons on graph peoper and making the first character I fell in love 364 00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:18.000 with, whose name was Grummish. Grummish was a Dwarf. He was half 365 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.480 Dwarf, half Mark, and he gotta thought like this, Grummish, Hey, 366 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:26.359 I like, I just wanted to be got the zeeing, got the 367 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.599 funny, and he had like a green skin and red hair that came out 368 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.480 of his pot helmet. He's not my favorite character, but Grummish was the 369 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:40.119 first character that I that I made that I loved. That's wonderful. There's 370 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.160 your there's your first story, and and so funny because all I can think 371 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.839 about is I had a teacher in high school, and I'm one of those 372 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.119 people that my hands have to move in order for me to understand what you're 373 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:55.519 saying, like some some aspect of this has to be in motion, And 374 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.359 so I would make and I still have it. There's a purple plastic bind 375 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:07.240 apprickeeper in my basement full of maps, all of which were done in AP 376 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:15.039 religion and AP philosophy. That was the great thing about taking algebra classes in 377 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.039 middle school and high school is that you have to do graph paper, which 378 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.039 is great from making dungeons. I had all this graph paper that I was 379 00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:22.440 supposed to be doing homework. Gon, so I do the homework and then 380 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.200 use the rest of it to literally just make dungeons. Oh yeah, shout 381 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:30.599 out to shout out to missus Gadoun, my freshman year teacher. She's like, 382 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:36.559 you definitely need this graph Yes, I do, You're right, Oh, 383 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:38.400 man, I love. I think it's I don't know, it's there's 384 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:45.839 something so like visceral about the fact that you can just talk about that experience 385 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.079 and like it's so not universal, but there's so much like because I guarantee 386 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.680 you, like there'd be so much like bleed over in so much connection between 387 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:57.599 our stories and like if I chuck a D twenty into a room full of 388 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.680 nerds, I guarantee you there's probably like six people i'd hit who are like, 389 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.599 yeah, man, I was doing maps in class too. Like there's 390 00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.079 something so I don't know, there's something universal about that appeal and about that 391 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:12.480 process that I just I love. I think it's just freaking awesome. UM, 392 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.000 oh my god. So I'm gonna talk the next The next story that 393 00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:22.279 I've got is a story about an experience that I've actually told you about before, 394 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.000 when you and I first met and you were the moderator on the panel 395 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.640 for the Level one anthology. Heck yeah, because you and I have very 396 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.799 similar feelings about prep um in a game. I dislike it. Um. 397 00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:37.559 If you had a like a quick phrase to some of that, what would 398 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:44.000 you say, rep makes me want to get off this mortal coil? Um 399 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:51.279 shorter. Yeah, preparation leads to perishing. It's closer. That's closer. 400 00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:56.319 Yeah, Oh prep is death. Yeah, that's great. Um. In 401 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.240 any case, stick with that one. Um. One of the things that 402 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:03.920 I do as I run kids d D group, and one of them or 403 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:06.920 two of them actually listened to this podcast is part of the reason I don't 404 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.440 swear in the podcast, or I try very hard to there. I should 405 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:14.880 have had forehead because I want to acknowledge the existence of sex, drugs, 406 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:22.960 and cursing, because that's the history of role playing it is. But this 407 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.079 story is dedicated largely for them. So I ran two years ago, I 408 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.200 ran a summer D and D camp for kids, and none of them had 409 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:36.240 ever played, and it was a magical experience. And I mean that literally. 410 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.359 They were some of the most creative, interesting, introspective people that I've 411 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:44.519 gotten to play a game with before, and it was glorious to watch them 412 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:49.480 grow both as players and people throughout that whole campaign. And it's been cool 413 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:53.119 because now, like we're three years beyond that camp, or two and a 414 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.160 half years beyond that camp. One of them is graduating high school soon. 415 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:02.640 I got to meet one of their girlfriends, which was really interesting that he 416 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:06.319 played D and D and now he has a girlfriend she and she plays with 417 00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:10.880 him now, which is fantastic. UM. Shout out to Lane. He 418 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.400 wrote an RPG and thanked me in the comments for it because the one day 419 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.799 he's like, well, you wrote After the Rain, can you bring that 420 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.799 in and play with us? And we played it and he was like cool 421 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:27.240 and left and took his allowance money and bought a copy of my game for 422 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.519 himself, had me sign it, and then yeah, double deep in at 423 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:34.519 work, listen, listen, but I love that gentleman. We got him, 424 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.279 Um, we got I had one of my kids make a presentation about 425 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:42.559 why Taco Bell is the best restaurant um the same kid who painted Fantasy over 426 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:47.519 Lord, Jeff Bezos. So like, this is just a great group of 427 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:51.119 kids, but it's the end of camp, the first time that i'd met 428 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.599 them, the first year that i'd met them. And if you were going 429 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:59.319 to end a session re union dragons, Graham just just reach back into that 430 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:06.000 that elf monk, alchemist, fire snake punching state of mind. What's the 431 00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:10.079 one monster you want to fight? Knowing this is your last hurrah for D 432 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:17.000 and D camp to ask red dragon, a dragon? A dragon? So 433 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:21.519 of course I threw a dragon at him. I had to what color of 434 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:30.559 dragon? I threw a white dragon at them. It's all right because our 435 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:36.880 store has a couple like really really like contest competition winning ministure painters, and 436 00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:42.519 one of them had painted up a colossal adult white dragon miniature. So it's 437 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:47.640 about the size of a football, and the kids had seen it a couple 438 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:52.079 of times, but it was not an eyeshot, and no one noticed until 439 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.279 I reach in to the box of stuff and slam it on the table. 440 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.599 And it was this wonderful moment where all of those kids, the kids had 441 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:05.880 done it perfectly. They realized they didn't have enough strength to beat this thing 442 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:07.839 on their own, and so the first part of the campaign was they knew 443 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:12.519 that something was coming, and the kids were like, well, we have 444 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.519 all these friends, because that was the one thing because their kids and one 445 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.160 of them saw the allies box on the character sheet and goes, I want 446 00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.400 allies and spent the entire campaign making allies. And I was like, I'm 447 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:29.400 going to make that important now, and so we spent the first half it 448 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:31.200 was entirely role playing, the kids going to the different parts of the Kingdom 449 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:38.200 they'd visited and literally assembling their Justice League Avengers Crew of all of the NPC's 450 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:43.079 they'd made friends with throughout the course of that whole, Like, it's the 451 00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.599 end of Avatar, dude, it was the Eclipse. It's the Eclipse. 452 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:51.720 Oh it's the swamp Benders. Yeah, it was. That was They're like, 453 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:52.880 oh, my god, they're the nalls that think you're a god. 454 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.160 And my Bard's like, yeah, I am a god. My worshippers, 455 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.559 oh there's the ranger that punched you in the fay, like and it was 456 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:07.400 great. And what happened was this incredible thing where we fought, we fought, 457 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:09.079 we fought, we fought, we fought, and every soft and I 458 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:14.559 would take notes behind the DM screen. The notes meant nothing. There was 459 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:20.039 there was no no, there was no hit points, there was no tracking. 460 00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.119 One of my kids, who God love her to death. She's a 461 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:29.160 great kid, but has been has been struggling a little bit with some self 462 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:34.680 esteem over that last week because she was like, you know, I think 463 00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.599 people like me being here, but I feel like I'm not contributing to the 464 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.319 group. Um. And that was really tougher because she was smart enough to 465 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.480 realize. She's like, I'm not really pulling my weight rolls wise, and 466 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:46.839 everyone else in the group is kind of like has their own thing that they're 467 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:51.039 really good at, and she's like, I'm just like and she she was. 468 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.000 She's very good at entertaining people, she was very good at diplomacy checks, 469 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.119 she's very good at making the allies, bringing people together. But she's 470 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.440 like, I don't really do a lot when we're in combat. And so 471 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:04.480 she had put herself in a great position during that combat. She was like, 472 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.679 all right, cool, it's distracted, it doesn't notice me. I'm 473 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.719 gonna run over to where there's this crossbow. I'm gonna take the crossbow and 474 00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:15.360 I'm gonna shoot it. And I'm like, all right, roll it. 475 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:22.519 Jess so happened to be a crid and I was like, great, I'm 476 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:24.840 thinking to myself, I'm like, depending on how high she rolls, this 477 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:30.880 dragon's dying here. And she got like seven and eight, and without a 478 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:37.360 word, I just very gently took the miniature and just tipped it over and 479 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:43.360 they went bevistic. We play in the back room of our local game store 480 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:45.480 and they're all like you right day. And usually I'm like, guys, 481 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:47.239 you can't yell. And I look at them. I was like, all 482 00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:52.800 right, we're gonna run around this room in a circle. Oh yeah, 483 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:54.559 we did. We all just ran around the room in the circle. I'm 484 00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:59.119 running around with them. The stormer comes back here, We're like, yeah, 485 00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.079 we're doing great. It's like me and like six kids or street like 486 00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:06.519 it. Hearkens back to one of the best and smartest things that I've heard 487 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.480 about role playing games. This goes back to something that you and I talked 488 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:14.320 about in that panel talk, which is the dragon dies when it stops being 489 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:19.159 fun to fight. There's there's that apocryphal story about a person walking through a 490 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.719 convention sees people dming and realize a TikTok video it need I saw it. 491 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.880 I saw it as a Reddit post and a Twitter thread first, so I 492 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:32.159 think this has been floating around forever. But the story basically goes persons walking 493 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.760 through this convention see somebody scribbling in their notebook as their party is fighting a 494 00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:39.480 dragon, and they noticed that the dungeon master is not recording hit points, 495 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.239 and they flagged them down afterwards, and they asked, how do you know 496 00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.679 when the dragon dies? And the dungeon master just goes The dragon dies when 497 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.440 it stops being fun to fight. And watching that group of kids who had 498 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:55.760 gone through like so much together that summer and had forged these friendships and forged 499 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.320 these bonds and learned a little bit about each other and learned a little bit 500 00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.920 about what they want to watch them sort of come together like this. It 501 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:07.599 has never reinforced for me the idea that the dragon dies when it stops being 502 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.639 fun to fight more in that moment, because every single one of them got 503 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:13.559 to feel like a hero, And that to me is like, it's everything 504 00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:16.000 the D and D's about. So I love it. That's one of my 505 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:22.519 favorite moments. I know what story is a thematic connection to that one. 506 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:29.079 But bringing up the whole idea of like the killing the dragon, the dragon 507 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:34.400 dies, that it stops being fun for me has always been true, and 508 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:39.440 when I was too young to understand, I very quickly realized the uncomfortable tension 509 00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:47.320 before I was like a Capital G game designer that there was two weird things 510 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:52.000 happening in Dunderstand Dragons, that there was these crunchy rules, but then also 511 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:57.440 the fun happened, which was the narrative the fiction being created from it, 512 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.400 And so what was the flow chart and why was that occurring? And what 513 00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:04.679 was a bad game versus what was a good game? And how did these 514 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:07.480 things happen? And you have a DM screen and you have the fiction, 515 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.920 you have the rules, but how much you narrate, how much you describe, 516 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:17.159 there's nothing that really dictates that level. And so like very early on, 517 00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.719 I remember flavor swapping. I remember pulling things out because we would get 518 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:28.840 in it fights in eighth grade about you know what. We didn't know what 519 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.079 metagaming was, but you were still like, does your character know this thing 520 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:35.840 is week to fire? Does it matter? And then why is that important? 521 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:37.679 And so we're all having these you know, this thing runs downhill, 522 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:42.519 and so I started running things and I realized I have the stat block, 523 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.239 but like what if I just make something up about what it is? And 524 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:49.840 then all of a sudden I realized that I was scaring the heck out of 525 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:52.440 my my friends, which is what I wanted, Like, yes, it's 526 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.119 a dragon. But then all of a sudden You're like, Okay, well 527 00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:59.360 what do I know about the monster manual? The other, the other part 528 00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:04.719 of this univer Hurstle dungeon making thing you've talked about is the memorization of the 529 00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:07.199 monster manual, Like it's just fun, Like the kid carries it around. 530 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:12.440 Um. I remember being in high school and I ran into a kid like 531 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.760 one of my mom's art openings, and he was literally carrying around a three 532 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:21.599 point zero uh monster Manual. And so we were talking about like how to 533 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:23.960 kill it, kill a tresque and stuff? Oh have to how do you 534 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:27.280 kill a tress? How how did you guys? Because that was always a 535 00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.000 point of contention for us, we had the same debate like how what's the 536 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:35.039 best way to do it? I mean, it depends on the addition because 537 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.840 the fifth edition one is like kind of whatever, and then the third edition 538 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:43.679 one like regenerates and then you have to cast wish and like all this crazy 539 00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:47.920 stuff. So all right, sorry, you didn't mean torupt your grandmas. 540 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:52.480 We had we had the same My brother and I used to go back, 541 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:54.960 what's the best way to kill the treste? What's the best way to kill 542 00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:59.880 a tarrasque? So? Uh, something that you and I have in calm 543 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:05.840 is that as adults we've run lots of games for kids, and but as 544 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.679 a kid, I also ran lots of games for kids constantly. Um, 545 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.559 and so I feel like I want to tell the opposite of that story, 546 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:20.199 the idea of all of these kids screaming and being exciting, and for me, 547 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.599 the strongest memories I have of of D and D, particularly in that 548 00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:29.119 era of like six seventh eighth grade, where I was constantly playing. If 549 00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:30.440 there was a kid having a sleepover, I'm like, we're playing D and 550 00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:34.400 D all night, right Like I was a pusher, you know, I 551 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:40.440 was. I was a p T. Barnum type And um, I'm wake 552 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.559 up, it's going to be photoshop pictures of your face on I know it. 553 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:52.119 I know. I am like Uh. For me, I have so 554 00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:54.239 many representative stories about D and D, and I think about role playing in 555 00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:58.960 general. But for me, the things that are really universal about D and 556 00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:02.599 D is not these huge, wonderful you know, high five in moments of 557 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:07.800 a NAT twenty and killing the monster or great role playing or whatever. It's 558 00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:14.280 absolute catastrophic failures. There's something about D and D that like brings out the 559 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:20.039 sixth grader out in everybody where it's all madness. It doesn't really make sense. 560 00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:23.360 So I I in seventh grade. I switched schools, and so I 561 00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:27.519 went to the game club to run stuff. And at the game club there 562 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:32.039 it was like nine tables of kids playing chess and the tenth table me running 563 00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:37.400 Dungeons and Dragons. And I didn't know how many kids are there, and 564 00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:40.480 they all showed up, so there were nine kids. I was running D 565 00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.599 and D for now. I don't remember if you remember the adventure box very 566 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:52.000 vividly, but the very first adventure is two rooms. You open a door 567 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.239 and there's goblins, yes, and then there's a second door and there's a 568 00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:00.280 traps chest in a second room. Okay. I played with one of my 569 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:06.639 friends who is also seventh grade and eight sixth graders who had never played before. 570 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.320 And so what happened was I gave the opening narration, I plopped them 571 00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:13.719 in front of that that first door, and I said, what do you 572 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:17.320 do? And the eight sixth graders are all kind of confused, and my 573 00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:22.840 friend dadda, I've played at least once before, and one of Graham's campaigns. 574 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:25.960 He opens the door and rushes forward and then immediately gets surrounded by all 575 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:30.559 the goblins. So he has nowhere to go. He's surrounded by all sides 576 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:35.599 by goblins and him, and there's eight people all jamming to try and get 577 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:38.000 in the door, and none of them can do it. So every round 578 00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:43.119 the goblins are slowly hitting him down and he'll like hack one, and he'll 579 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:47.800 hack one, and then he'll get to one of the kids smashing clown caring 580 00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:51.239 to try and get in, and they're like, well, what do I 581 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:53.320 do? And we have it on the little grid because this is long before 582 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.199 I said, you know what, grids are stupid. We're going to do 583 00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:00.960 only Theater of the Mind forever, which is long, long long. When 584 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:05.719 I started to do I said, I don't know, maybe you do a 585 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:08.159 strength check to get to get him out of the way, and they said 586 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:13.639 okay, and that's all they did. And so everyone's turn was grabbing the 587 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.199 person in front of them chucking back. They'd move up, somebody else would 588 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:21.280 take a strength check, trust them. And so my friend is slowly getting 589 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.639 hacked to death by one, two, three, four, five goblins who've 590 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:30.519 completely surrounded him, and his back is to an ever increasing rotating series of 591 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:35.519 other morons trying to throw each other over their shoulders to get in, and 592 00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.679 he's getting lower and lower and lower, and he has just like a couple 593 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:43.760 hit points left, and finally the guy in the front has the initiative and 594 00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:46.760 he like knocks my friend out of the way and they push in, and 595 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:52.960 slowly but surely, the other eight pieces come and decimate the last few goblins, 596 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:57.880 and now all of a sudden, it's my friend barely alive and the 597 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.519 only one that really knows and the other eight sixth graders who are like, 598 00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:06.079 yeah, we did it, guys great like unaware of just like the pure 599 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:09.559 frustration and chaos that it occurred. And what does my friend do again, 600 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:12.800 He's the only one who knows what to do, So I say, okay, 601 00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.400 there's another door he goes aha, and of course he's the first one 602 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:20.119 on the ball, goes inside. Okay, there's a chest man, well 603 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.960 I open it. It's trapped. He gets hit with an arrow and dice 604 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:28.639 because he was so weak from getting the ship being out of him from the 605 00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:32.239 goblins. And at that point club time was over and everyone went to class, 606 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:35.960 and I was like, that's D and D. And to me, 607 00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:39.760 that is still one of the most D and D stories to me that I've 608 00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:45.239 ever heard, because it's chaos and tragedy and stupidity. And then just like 609 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.679 a truly epic failure at the end of top out a lot. That's D 610 00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:55.559 and D to me. We could think about as that SpongeBob he was like, 611 00:43:55.639 --> 00:44:00.280 we did it. We saved the city and everything's burning down. Sure, 612 00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:02.400 it's like all the six we didn't. We saved the city of your 613 00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.480 friends, like bleeding out, grilling on the floor. There's like twitching goblins, 614 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:15.480 like just dying, like oh my god. You know, I feel 615 00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:21.119 like tell Us from the Table, catastrophic failures is its own list and its 616 00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:24.440 own is its own episode. Um, because I want to close off with 617 00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:30.119 the one type of story that I think every D D player has, and 618 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:34.559 that is a dice roll story. Every d D player just told a dice 619 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.199 roll story. No, I told the story about planning, about preparation or 620 00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:45.199 the lack thereof, and about how teamwork and strategy mattered. This is a 621 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:51.679 story about strict no no, don't off no no, no, okay, 622 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.159 that's Bernie made off to you. Your story was about how the hit points 623 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.920 the dragon didn't matter right, about how the girl felt bad and she got 624 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.920 the final die role she did. That's why the kids running around. The 625 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:06.079 kids are running around because they got to kill the best monster. But this 626 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.360 is a dice roll, so a true dice roll story. So let me 627 00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:12.280 only let me set the stage. Let me set the circus stage. Let's 628 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:16.119 do it. Now, you're speaking my language. Oh I love you, 629 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:22.800 mister maid Off. You're good. Can I interest you in a definitely not 630 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.679 Ponzi's game? You always doesn't know? Does it? It's a gift? 631 00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.400 What do I say? Nine people trying to cram in to get to the 632 00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:36.679 Yeah, my first Ponzi's game. It's trapped chest dot com. Yeah, 633 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:40.400 honestly, try not trapped chest. Trapped chest dot com sounds like a D 634 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.960 and D apparel website. Uh okay, minor tangent did were you did you 635 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:50.400 miss It's a trap dot net? Were you around for? That was the 636 00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:54.280 Star Wars thing somebody got there. There was a series of these things where 637 00:45:54.280 --> 00:46:00.239 they would just play gifts on repeat right that it was hosted time was d 638 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:02.960 GEO Cities It might have been there was something. Yeah, of course I 639 00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:07.199 remember this. I had a by the time I got to college. One 640 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.239 of my call of Cthulu buddies was absolutely obsessed with Animal act bar So any 641 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:16.000 any point crop he would that's that's what it's a trap dot net was, 642 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:21.559 And it was just a gift of it on Lugar It's up trapp. Oh. 643 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:22.920 I don't know why that was rent free in my brain, but it 644 00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:29.199 does. So to give you some context first, before this um, every 645 00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:32.559 summer when I was in college, we would go to my friend's dad's beach 646 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.599 house and we would hang on the beach all day and we would play D 647 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:40.000 and D at night. It is like every nerds dream. We had brought 648 00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:45.679 my friend, who is still a professional actor. He does like dinner, 649 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:47.159 theaters and all this other stuff. He had never played D and D before. 650 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:53.840 So let me introduce to you trogdoor the Bernonader, which so he so 651 00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:05.480 he so he this creative person and stepped from beloved flash videos from Star Runner. 652 00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:07.119 Yeah, which I also think is its own unique D and D thing. 653 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:10.559 Did you have people who like every time they like they would again we're 654 00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:15.000 talking about the full D and D. I was the only person who couldn't 655 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:19.119 stand Homestar Runner, and literally every person also was like, this is the 656 00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.960 greatest thing of all time. I'm like the early days of the Internet, 657 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:23.519 Like, let's let's chill out. Well, just like how many YouTube has 658 00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:28.199 only been around for one year's how many Lego lisses have you have you played 659 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.400 with? Like? How many legalist is? How many ans? Honestly, 660 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:37.280 it's uh the Hobbits are uh dais and card Yeah, that's yeah, that's 661 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.840 that's what I remember. And there's just I just I vividly remember so many 662 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:44.280 people I would play with would name their characters after other fantasy properties or other 663 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:47.039 properties in general, more than how many Lego losses I've played with. Is 664 00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:52.280 the what I call arragoning in the corner um you're doing the establishing. People 665 00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:55.280 talk a lot about the tavern. I don't care, like leave the tavern 666 00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:00.400 alone. That's fine, But I am somebody who wants to share the spotlight 667 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:05.119 and every and everybody all the time. Like it's very important that girl who 668 00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.880 is feeling you know that that moment you very smartly gave her the spotlight when 669 00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:12.519 she needed to do. I think that's that'll be our next thing, which 670 00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:16.360 is DM skills. What are the skills? D yes? Yes? What? 671 00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:20.000 What? What? What is important? And for me a huge one 672 00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.760 is is spotlighting. How do you listen? And that's the prep is death 673 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:27.360 thing. Prep is death is PREPA's death because you want to listen to people 674 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.039 and you pull the stories being told and you beat in the middle and that's 675 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.320 what you create. You know, that's the magic. So the spotlighting that 676 00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.599 occurs is so so so important. Um, why was I talking about this 677 00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:42.920 ring in the char As soon as you said, Eric Gorning in the corner, 678 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.559 pretty excited the prancing pony. It's the prancing pony. The more than 679 00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:52.280 Lego losses is when I go around because I want in that first hour of 680 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:55.000 an RP session, I want everyone to fall into character. I want to 681 00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:59.440 really kind of feel like what it means to be this mind and think like 682 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:01.119 this other person, and so I do a lot of Okay, well, 683 00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:06.039 why that's happening? What are you doing? It's it's it's it's just as 684 00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:07.960 powerful, not more than what do you do, but more that like you 685 00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:13.480 just keep shifting around. Oh, I just observe. I'm observing, and 686 00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:16.079 I'm like, that's fine, okay, but especially when they're like in a 687 00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:20.639 corner, like looking at things like okay, so you have nothing to do, 688 00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:22.639 but your air got into the corner, like it's it's a it's a 689 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:25.119 round room. Even in a round room, you would find a corner, 690 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:29.800 a shadowy corner to be go hiding in, said like, smoke your pipe. 691 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.960 They got long cape. Oh always always, that's what I call ergon 692 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.119 in in the corner. I've never heard it described that before, but I 693 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:39.280 will be stealing that turn of phrase. That's great, yea ergoning in the 694 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:45.960 corner is So this this person, my friend Adamstramsky, awesome dude, decided 695 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:47.599 he was going to make a half work. So already we know this character 696 00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:51.039 is going to be great. We're already on board, right, and it's 697 00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:54.239 a half work monk. Oh. And this is what I love about Adam 698 00:49:54.280 --> 00:50:00.360 and where a great player will shine is that he purposely made. But his 699 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:02.159 name is trog Door. You've lost me, I know. But here's the 700 00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:07.320 thing. Trog Door wound up becoming the beating heart and soul of this group 701 00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:13.480 because trog Door's intelligence was three sure, but trog Door's charisma was four. 702 00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:17.639 Trog Door's wisdom was six. To rog Door was as dumb as a bag 703 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:22.920 of hammers, and it would usually get everybody into trouble. And props to 704 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:29.800 Adam who role played that character beautifully because he did the unintelligent thing without it 705 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.360 being annoying or without it being a distraction, which is really hard. He 706 00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:37.440 was never a nuisance, and it was always in the service of advancing the 707 00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:42.239 goals of the party and other players, or complicating those goals in a way 708 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.880 that was really meaningful. And so because of that nuance and his skill with 709 00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:51.519 that, the party grew really really attached to trog Door, to the point 710 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:55.119 where even when trog Door would botch something and make their lives so much harder, 711 00:50:55.159 --> 00:50:59.360 there like it was the classic like Brady Bunch, they were like trog 712 00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:05.760 Door. This all culminates when the group finds out that there is a vampire 713 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:10.280 living on the outskirts of town who has kidnapped a child, and the party 714 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:19.239 had an immaculately planned entry strategy. They had resources prepped, they had cool 715 00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:23.000 spells. At one point we had a warlock blast a snow bank and then 716 00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:28.599 the cleric cast light on the snow that flew up in the air. Because 717 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.000 this is the science major, was the cleric. He goes, well, 718 00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:34.519 snow is ice crystals, so if I cast light on this, it should 719 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:38.280 theoretically refract and reflect the light around the room that the vampire is in. 720 00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:42.159 And I'm like, that's not how that works, But that's such a cool 721 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:44.599 idea, then absolutely you're gonna do that. It's gonna be great. So 722 00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:47.199 it's always the quote unquote science majors that come up with the most garbage science. 723 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:50.519 It's not the people who are like, I don't know math, you 724 00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:59.320 know. But it was something nutty tum and despite all those things, the 725 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:02.360 plan were to um the vampire winds up killing despite the fact that it didn't 726 00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:06.440 make any sense, it didn't work well, and they had great plans. 727 00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:07.960 They were like using cover, they were trying this stuff, and it wound 728 00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:14.960 up being horrible and trog door is Lahill Mary for the group and trog Door's 729 00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:17.840 one goal was He's like, I'm guant to burn alive fire and trog Door 730 00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:23.320 goes, it's my time to shine and throws every lit thing he came finding 731 00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:30.519 into the barn and sets it on fire, trapping the vampire inside, giving 732 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:32.920 the party time to escape with the kid, but trapping trog Door in the 733 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.639 burning building with a very angry vampire. It did not go well for him. 734 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.079 He died. Adam is now, to his credit, totally okay with 735 00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:45.920 trog Door being dead, and he just goes, ha, you know what, 736 00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:49.559 though, I'm gonna roll if I get to twenty, it's got to 737 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:54.159 come back alive. Rolls a twenty and I'm like, okay. Everyone's like 738 00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:57.679 that's really funny at him, but that's not how that works. He goes, 739 00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:00.519 what if I roll a second twenty, that's like, you're not gonna 740 00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:04.519 And before I can say you're not gonna do that, he rolls a second 741 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:08.800 twenty. For those of you who've never played before, usually in Dudgeons Dragons, 742 00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:14.639 a natural twenty it's an automatic success on anything. At this point. 743 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:19.440 The energy at this table is electric. There are two twenties rolled in two 744 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:22.920 roles, and what is the likelihood, what is the probability of that you 745 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.159 do two twenties in a row? Come on, don't google it. Don't 746 00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:28.800 google it. This is easy math, my friend, it's not. And 747 00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:31.199 as a D and D you should know this. No I don't. I 748 00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:36.880 don't tell me what the math is. It's one over twenty times twenty therefore 749 00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:40.280 something or thousand, four hundred. Yeah, that it's a one in four 750 00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:45.039 hundred chance. Same thing for one and ones. Because there's an old kind 751 00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:51.360 of house rule that probably started in a D and D. If you roll 752 00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:53.400 two twenties, you automatically kill a thing. If you roll two ones in 753 00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:59.360 a row, you kill yourself. It's a house roll. And there have 754 00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:02.360 been some third moments. I there's a lot of tumbler stories, which is 755 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:07.320 like, we had this terrible plan and we rolled a nat twenty or two 756 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:09.320 twenties in a row, which is how I seduced the dragon, and now 757 00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:13.519 we're married, you know, so, and two twenties in a row, 758 00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.119 twenties in a row, and so I look at him and I go, 759 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:22.440 all right, you roll a third twenty. We'll resurrect trog door. Okay, 760 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.719 could you do that? Math. Now, now I've walked you through 761 00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:30.840 the first one out it is summer four hundred times twenty is something eighty thousand, 762 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:35.400 eight thousand, I don't know. It's eight thousand, right, not 763 00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.840 one thousand. You got it? Day Um he's He's like, yeah, 764 00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:49.400 I'll run it. Why not? Um rolls it. All of us standing 765 00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:54.800 up. It's three am. Washes, the dice goes wobble wobble, wobble, 766 00:54:54.840 --> 00:55:01.280 wobble, wobble wobble, natural twenty and we went nuts. He hit 767 00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:05.280 the one out of eight thousand chances and we went nuts. It was awesome 768 00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:08.719 to this day, one of the most because again it was not a planned 769 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:13.440 thing. Um. It was not like I wasn't going to like allow this 770 00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:20.440 to full resurrection to happen. But it worked out and it remains like one 771 00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:23.119 of my favorite moments because this character that everyone thought, oh it was it 772 00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:25.679 was fun because it was this one. There was a character that everyone thought 773 00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:30.480 was going to be a joke, wound up doing a really meaningful sacrifice and 774 00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:36.280 then wounding up somehow to the sheer power of luck and buffoonery getting his way 775 00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:37.039 out of it, and we tied it into the story a little bit more, 776 00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.920 there was some how do you get resurrected? You're burying the lead? 777 00:55:40.039 --> 00:55:45.760 How did Brogdor the Burnonator? How did he get resurrected? How did he 778 00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:52.280 get resurrected? Part so who cares? Who cares? So? If you 779 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.480 so? In Dungeons Dragons in three point five, which is the edition, 780 00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:58.440 were playing, Uh, there is a god of travel and I'm going to 781 00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:01.480 butcher his name. I think it's far Again far Leton, something who has 782 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:08.760 a fu In any case, trog Door had ingratiated himself to the local church 783 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:13.960 of Farleton, because the one thing that they talk about in that faith is 784 00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:17.239 that it is the journey more than the destination. And no character exemplified that 785 00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:24.679 mythouse more than trog Door did. Trog Door's whole stick was bernonading, but 786 00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:29.119 it was bernonating. But it was not caring about where he was headed. 787 00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:34.760 It was about figuring. It was about enjoying where the friends. It was 788 00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:37.800 about the friends he burned along the way. You're right, but it was 789 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:39.599 just about living in the moment and enjoying where he was in that journey. 790 00:56:40.159 --> 00:56:44.199 Um. And it was a facet of that character that came up as a 791 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:45.320 joke like it was like, haha, it turns out the real things we 792 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:49.679 burned where the friends we made along the way, but but wound up being 793 00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:53.440 an actual, meaningful part of his character. But wait, but wait, 794 00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:59.320 wait a second, we did burn friends. So trog Door in the afterlife 795 00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.719 basically meets this god and he's like, you know what, man, kind 796 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:06.840 of like you, kind of like your style, So tell you what. 797 00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:08.920 I'm gonna give you a do over. And it was and role played this 798 00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:14.840 entire conversation. Just imagine like this an infinite, all knowing, omniscient being 799 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:17.480 and an idiot having a conversation. And it was great. God, we're 800 00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.199 not all knowing or we're all powerful, you know. It was. It 801 00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:24.920 was a super been around longer now, I mean maybe I don't know. 802 00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.000 Any case, it was a fun time for us, and it remains my 803 00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:31.320 favorite dice roll story because he hit the one out, he hit the one 804 00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:36.280 twenty, hit the second twenty, hit the third twenty, and then by 805 00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:38.920 the end of it it was great. So yeah, the die roll stories, 806 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:43.119 they're they're they're hard to translate because it's very much a you had to 807 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:45.159 be there one it is. But I felt like I wanted to talk about 808 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:47.760 one. I had to get at least one in there. Yeah it is. 809 00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:51.440 It is the only die roll story on this list though, Yeah, 810 00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:53.280 you got two stories in there. Oh my god, get out of here, 811 00:57:53.519 --> 00:58:00.480 get all right. I would have loved the the too, the gods 812 00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:04.280 of the burning building. Everyone's screaming, and you know it's It's very much 813 00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:07.280 the Blue Fairy at the end of Pinocchio coming down and being like, you've 814 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:12.800 done it, trog Door, You've you've You've become a real orc and then 815 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:16.119 like resurrected it because like divine interventions, a thing and a sixth pike mid 816 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:20.519 point everyone, I think like clarics. Love those moments where you're like, 817 00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:22.440 oh, I got to talk to my god once. It was dope, 818 00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:24.079 right, yeah, because they rolled two twenties in a row and they got 819 00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:27.599 to talk to their god, Like that's how it works. Yeah, it's 820 00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:30.360 all oh yeah, and again diceral story is not always my favorite, but 821 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.199 that one was just it was a story that resonates and I still think about 822 00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:35.880 it sometimes, still like it. No, I like trog Door, I 823 00:58:36.039 --> 00:58:39.519 like I like I like the the heart and soul of a Party. I 824 00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:45.480 love the characters that become jokes that like everyone then takes seriously like that's that's 825 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:46.599 awesome, and it is. It is very d and d to give a 826 00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:52.480 character an incredibly stupid name as a joke. And then Sessions and Sessions later 827 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.719 realized that, like you deeply care about this fictional stupid joke to Maine, 828 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:02.119 Yeah, like that's that's magic, that's alchemy, that's that is and that's 829 00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:06.519 the beauty of dn D. All Right, Graham, Um, one last 830 00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:07.559 story, I think, and then think will end it for today, and 831 00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:10.920 then yeah, so I have a little bit of a different story at least 832 00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:15.159 it's it's a it's a little bit different, um, because it kind of 833 00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:17.360 goes outside the magic circle a little bit and it talks about real life. 834 00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:22.760 It talks about friendships, and it talks about some some stuff that's a little 835 00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:25.920 bit painful. But it has has made made me think about it ever since. 836 00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:30.280 So I gave up on dn D pretty quickly because I was I was. 837 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:35.239 I didn't know why, but I was curious about other numbers and systems 838 00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:40.679 like widen numbers do these things. And in middle school, uh, the 839 00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:44.719 games I played all the time when I would go home on my computers fall 840 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:46.559 at one and two, which, funny enough, years later I get to 841 00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:51.000 learn that they're based off of gurps and then got changed. So there's a 842 00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:53.760 reason why they felt so familiar to me. They felt like role playing games. 843 00:59:53.800 --> 00:59:58.440 And I thought I was the most obsessed person with uh with the fall 844 00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:01.400 At one and two systems, but there was somebody online who had translated the 845 01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:07.280 rules into a pretty crunchy P and P system, which I then ran from 846 01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:13.880 my two closest friends, the first the character who's been killed by the trapped 847 01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:19.360 chest, and my other closest friend. And so at that point it was 848 01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:22.199 like sleepover as constantly, so we're, you know, we're doing D and 849 01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:24.760 D and eventually I'm like, I want to run my own Fallout game. 850 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:30.239 And this was an eighth grade and so we're we're all doing this game, 851 01:00:30.639 --> 01:00:35.360 and we we become friends into into high school, and it becomes one of 852 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.280 those things where like because everyone's sitting puberty and changing, like we all grew 853 01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:43.440 apart as friends. And every time I would try and go back and like 854 01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.480 reclaim these two friendships, like I would get rebuffed, you know, they 855 01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:50.320 would tell me that they like didn't want to talk to me again, that 856 01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.559 they had drown to different We went to different schools. My closest friend ended 857 01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:59.719 up going to a private school, and everybody's going through things high school, 858 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:04.840 it's it's teenagers. But I my two closest friends, who I had played 859 01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:08.559 countless campaigns with like in high school, just stramp didn't want to talk to 860 01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:12.920 me anymore. So I end up going to college and meeting a new group 861 01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:16.360 of friends, and then ran coll Cthulhu and Vampire their Mask Garade, And 862 01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:22.079 that's a whole other swoop of lessons that I learned playing those games around those 863 01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:27.000 things, running sessions that didn't have a single die roll, and then these 864 01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:29.639 these nineteen year olds are like, that was the best session I've ever had? 865 01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:34.840 Why didn't we roll any dice? And and my good friend he had 866 01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:38.480 gone off to another private college. So I was. I was in the 867 01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:45.360 hometown, the hometown public university, and he had gone off to this expensive 868 01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:49.400 school. And so I had a group of friends who had been going to 869 01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.639 the local college with a couple of years now, and so we had a 870 01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:54.880 couple of houses where everyone would hang out at and we would throw parties and 871 01:01:54.960 --> 01:02:00.719 do other things. And one semester, I guess he got ed of his 872 01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:06.840 you know, forty fifty thousand dollars a year college and came back to Slummett 873 01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:10.480 with us in Albuquerque, and he started to cruise around in the friend groups 874 01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:15.119 that I was in, and I hadn't seen him for years and years and 875 01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:17.039 years. The last thing was, like I said of an email the summer 876 01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:22.719 after a senior year, and he was like, I just don't want to 877 01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:24.159 talk to you ever again, and you know, we're not friends. And 878 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:28.400 I'm like, okay, you know, you take a deep breath and you 879 01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:30.480 keep going yeah. And so it's a party. It's a it's a Saturday 880 01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:34.079 night. My friends are the all everybody I know, and I'm like, 881 01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:37.320 oh my god. There he is, like that's really weird. And I 882 01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:40.239 try and say hi to him, and he completely ignores me. He blows 883 01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:45.679 me off. I'm like, okay, fine, and acknowledging the fact that, 884 01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:50.360 you know, drinking is happening. People are starting to get more comfortable 885 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:52.000 with each other. People are starting to get loosened up. And it's a 886 01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:57.880 couple hours later into the party and I'm in the kitchen and my friend, 887 01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:01.480 who hasn't said two words to me and said in years, he like stumbles 888 01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:06.880 into the kitchen. It more or less traps me in front of the the 889 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.480 refrigerator and goes, hey, Graham, and I go, yeah, already 890 01:03:12.519 --> 01:03:16.559 confused that, like he's speaking to you, right, and he goes apropos 891 01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:21.840 of nothing out of nowhere. He goes, remember that Fallout game that we 892 01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:23.480 used to play all the time where it turned out that we were on a 893 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:28.800 brain in outer space and we weren't even on Earth and it gave us psychic 894 01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:32.800 powers. And I go, yeah, of course I do. I remember 895 01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:37.400 every detail of that game, you know, was very meaningful to me. 896 01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:46.400 And he goes, wait, we should finish it some time, and I 897 01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:52.880 go, sure, man, let's do it. And he wanders off and 898 01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:59.280 I saw him intermittently the next couple of years. Ultimately he finished his education 899 01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:02.679 at the other college. And I remember like different friends coming out to me 900 01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:06.000 that night and being like, who was that guy because they had never really 901 01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:11.599 seen him before, Like he was kind of a big douchebag. And that 902 01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:14.840 also kind of made me smile and laugh because I felt kind of vindicated, 903 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:17.360 because I felt like my heart had been ripped out from these these different friendships 904 01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:21.639 and whatever. Yeah, but like what stuck with me was like we were 905 01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:26.559 eighth grade, We're doing sleepovers, and I had this Fallout game and I 906 01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:30.280 was experimented with all these like weird things. It was. It was psychological, 907 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:34.159 and you know, he like fought fought his father and a dream sequence 908 01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:36.920 and like all this different stuff. And my big reveal was that it wasn't 909 01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:43.519 the Apocalypse. They were on this satellite which essentially a brain matter ASTEROIDA and 910 01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:47.159 then so that's why they were all like giddy, psyching stuff. And he 911 01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:50.119 had written me off and decided he never wanted to talk to me again, 912 01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:56.800 rebuffed multiple attempts over years to do it, and then sees me again. 913 01:04:56.840 --> 01:05:02.440 We were both like twenty three, and that's what he wanted to talk about, 914 01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:10.159 and also said, let's play again sometime, Let's finish that game. 915 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.320 And of course we never did, and of course we never talked about it 916 01:05:13.360 --> 01:05:17.599 again. But like a like a splinter in his mind, it's stuck there 917 01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:21.559 those sleepovers, and it mattered like he went off. Maybe he played DD 918 01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:26.480 with other people, maybe he didn't. You know, I was still asking 919 01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:29.400 like, oh man, how do I tell better stories in Vampire? How 920 01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:31.679 do I, you know, really mess with people? And call cthulhum. 921 01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:38.000 But this stuck with him for years, and I think that is truly what 922 01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:40.840 I've seen over and over and over again over the years, why I love 923 01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:45.039 tabletop role playing games, why I love making these sessions, why I'm doing 924 01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:49.440 with those kids who ran around the back room high fiving each other, probably 925 01:05:49.559 --> 01:05:53.079 gonna tell that story, and one reason or Anothery're gonna be like, you 926 01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:56.719 had to be there. But we killed that dragon. That was real, 927 01:05:56.960 --> 01:06:00.920 That really happened. When I fought that snake, that Elvin monk, that 928 01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:06.400 was it's real. It happened like there's no difference between that and finding a 929 01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:11.760 twenty dollars bill and that feeling pretty good right, the thing that happened in 930 01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:15.679 my life and benefited it. Role playing games are real and they affect people 931 01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:20.400 because of how we are as humans and narrative creative machines. I have seen 932 01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:24.599 this alchemy occur over and over again where people love it. I mean, 933 01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:29.079 people love terrible TV shows because they love the characters. When people love the 934 01:06:29.159 --> 01:06:32.480 characters, they make across the table when they're like Trogdor, I feel, 935 01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:36.920 I feel real emotion, feel something right. That is the most real thing 936 01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:41.760 that we as humans get to experience. What I love about your story is 937 01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:45.559 it cuts to the heart of why role playing games are great. And I 938 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:49.360 think while we're doing this episode at all, is there is something so visceral 939 01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:58.840 and so perfect and so creative and so human about these fantasy worlds that we 940 01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:01.880 make. And I think that's what has kept me coming back to RPGs in 941 01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:06.400 general, whether it's Dungeons Dragons or Fiasco or Dread or After the Rain or 942 01:07:06.519 --> 01:07:12.039 Under the Autumn Strangely or any of those right like, like, the games 943 01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:16.320 that I keep thinking about are the games that connect me to other people. 944 01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:19.840 And I think that's because, truthfully, that's why I play RPGs is I 945 01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:26.800 want to connect to others, and that giving the opportunity to make those connections 946 01:07:26.840 --> 01:07:30.199 with people who I do not maybe I know really well and I get to 947 01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.039 know something or learn something more that's new about them, or maybe I've never 948 01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:38.199 met them at all, and I get to get closer to them is such 949 01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:41.679 a meaningful thing. And I can't imagine a better story to end on than 950 01:07:41.719 --> 01:07:44.400 that one. Graham, so thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. 951 01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:46.239 I'm sorry your friends are jerks. It was a very long time ago. 952 01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:53.639 But you know I can, I can still be sorry except a former friend 953 01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:58.400 confronts you in the kitchen to talk about your eighth grade sleep eight grade sleep 954 01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:03.119 over the r But you never know what resonates with people. UM, you 955 01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:08.559 know what, I don't know if I want to do a weird question or 956 01:08:08.599 --> 01:08:10.400 not. I kind of want to leave it. I kind of want to 957 01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:13.920 leave us with that story, and I think I'm going to UM. If 958 01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:16.199 you have enjoyed this content, and I sincerely hope that you have, can 959 01:08:16.239 --> 01:08:19.359 follow us in all of your favorite podcasting sites, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 960 01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:26.279 Joe Chavan, you can follow us whatever, Buy Copy After the Rain, 961 01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:30.119 all that jazz. I'm actually gonna make a special ask everybody listening to this 962 01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:34.119 episode, if you get the chance to go go play an RPG in the 963 01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:38.319 next couple of days. Go go do it with somebody you know, Go 964 01:08:38.439 --> 01:08:40.359 do it with somebody you love. Goes do it with somebody you'd like to 965 01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:43.600 get to know a little better, and then maybe let us know what kind 966 01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:46.520 of stories you create, because ultimately that's why Deskin doorcs exists. By Graham 967 01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:50.119 and I are friends like it. Like you know, it's crazy to think 968 01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:56.800 that like RPGs have given us both so much, but so so the last 969 01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:00.239 game that you have written and have put out as a Fear Within, have 970 01:09:00.439 --> 01:09:03.960 you gotten to make what are the monsters called? They're called They're called entities? 971 01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:08.600 Entities? Yes, and so we met because you talked about Vessel, 972 01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:11.560 and I really want to play Vessel because it taps into a lot of things 973 01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:15.239 that I love about role playing and share with the people design. It's a 974 01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:18.880 two person RPG where essentially you take turns role playing for each other as an 975 01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:24.920 entity in somebody's head, and then the human tappied into this like et eleven 976 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:30.239 iron giant thing, which is great. Have you made an entity? I 977 01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:33.479 have made an entities. If I think that's what I want you to tell 978 01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:36.479 me about an entity you've made, I'll tell you about one and that will 979 01:09:36.520 --> 01:09:40.039 be our all right? I love That would be a weird question. So 980 01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:45.119 what again talking about connection, connection between players, connection between characters, And 981 01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:48.159 so I have made two entities in the times that I have gotten a chance 982 01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:51.279 to play. I Fear Within just great because I don't always get a chance 983 01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:57.039 to play my own RPPs very or D and D very often two times maybe 984 01:09:57.119 --> 01:10:00.319 three actually, But I use the same character for this from two adventures. 985 01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:05.079 So like again, like as a writer theatery person, I loved writing, 986 01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:10.039 directing, and acting, and for me, each one taught me something about 987 01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:13.399 it. There's the thing about the Forever DM. But I love being a 988 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:16.239 PC and I love running games, and I going back and forth taught me 989 01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:19.279 how to do the other one better. So I like playing RPGs. But 990 01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:21.680 the thing is, I am always the one with the rule book, and 991 01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:26.680 I'm always the one that is willing to take on the play gm less game 992 01:10:27.760 --> 01:10:31.199 PREPA's Dead, or you could design a gm less game which desks and dirks 993 01:10:31.239 --> 01:10:34.800 has one coming in the next year or two, which is really exciting. 994 01:10:34.840 --> 01:10:41.039 But that's all I can say about that. So I have made two entities, 995 01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:44.720 two monsters in my life for a Fear Within, and I want to 996 01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:47.920 talk about the one that I did for the initial play test. So in 997 01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:53.760 a Fear Within, entities are a reflection of the fears of their child and 998 01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:58.279 a reflection of that character. And so my good friend Michael Whalen, who 999 01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:02.199 was on the Rootless podcast, he plays a cat basically like a cat roning 1000 01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:06.319 in that podcast. Great dude, awesome guy, decided he was going to 1001 01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:12.119 make every Eric gorning team, it's going to make an edgy team, that 1002 01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:15.479 nobody wanted to talk, that he didn't want to talk to anybody. His 1003 01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:20.640 goal was can I blend into the background, and can I force people away 1004 01:11:20.680 --> 01:11:26.640 from me? Like his goal as a character was to keep people at arm's 1005 01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.600 length. But his theme, which is an aspect of the game. It's 1006 01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:32.640 think of it as like what your character needs to achieve to become the person 1007 01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:36.800 they're supposed to be, was to get over that fear. Was to realize 1008 01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:40.720 that not everyone is out to get you, and that maybe there's there's there's 1009 01:11:40.960 --> 01:11:45.000 a reason that there are connections between us. And so my entity having he 1010 01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:48.800 had this wonderfully fleshed out story, and for me, the second we had 1011 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:51.640 finished that conversation, there was really only one entity that I could do, 1012 01:11:53.199 --> 01:12:00.079 and so I made a character called Beacon. And Beacon is a wraith like 1013 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:08.800 figure composed right excellent point Beacon, Hello Beacan. Uh No, he's called 1014 01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:14.199 Beacon. So he's composed of the swirling bits of brass and glass from several 1015 01:12:14.359 --> 01:12:19.720 thousand sirens and fog horns and alarms, and Beacon's entire stick is that could 1016 01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:23.800 be loo, could be he could be cold, beuh. And so what 1017 01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:29.039 he does is he amps up the sensory to draw attention to some aspect. 1018 01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:31.800 So if it's noise, he can make people here, really here, to 1019 01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:35.199 the point their ears like bleed because everything is so loud. She can amplify 1020 01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:42.880 his voice. Um, but he has to have his kid. His power 1021 01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:47.880 is stronger the more the target of it knows about his kid. And so 1022 01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:53.359 at one point, like there was a really cool moment where he is being 1023 01:12:54.600 --> 01:12:57.359 pursued by a figure who has been possessed by the Fear, which is this 1024 01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:01.800 big, big bad that is consistent every game of a fear within, and 1025 01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:09.279 the Fear possesses a security guard and Beacon's powers are not enough to like overwhelm 1026 01:13:09.399 --> 01:13:14.319 this possessed security guard, and so it like he's freaking out. Beacon is 1027 01:13:14.359 --> 01:13:15.439 inside of his head trying to be like, dude, you gotta do something, 1028 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:17.600 because this is we're gonna die. Both of us are gonna die. 1029 01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:19.960 We're gonna die. We're gonna die right now, right here, We're gonna 1030 01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:24.439 die. And it's this constant back and forth and shout out to Michael, 1031 01:13:24.439 --> 01:13:28.760 who just did a fantastic job of role playing this scene because at one point 1032 01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:35.000 he just stops and screams, I just want people to like me, straight 1033 01:13:35.079 --> 01:13:40.720 into the face of this guy, and Beacon is just like, there's silence 1034 01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:43.119 for the first time. He's like, you know what, get enough, 1035 01:13:43.199 --> 01:13:45.199 kid, and then all the dude senses pop off all at once, and 1036 01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:48.239 it was cool. It was a great moment. Shout out to Michael for 1037 01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:51.640 letting me do that, and shout out to you, Graham for I was 1038 01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:56.119 like asking me that question because I haven't thought about the entities that I got 1039 01:13:56.159 --> 01:13:58.399 to play in a while. Graham, tell me about your entity, because 1040 01:13:58.600 --> 01:14:05.399 yeah, I like it. I was thinking about it because you know, 1041 01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:10.479 you name drop your games all the time. But like, I am like 1042 01:14:10.600 --> 01:14:13.159 your friend, but I'm also a fan. There's things that happened there that 1043 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:15.560 I think you're interesting. You have your stick, you run through it, 1044 01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:18.199 be sure to check after the rain destin georgs dot com. But it's all 1045 01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:23.359 very automated. And then today you said you hardly ever played D and D, 1046 01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:26.600 which to me part of the joy. The real joy is not just 1047 01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:30.560 like the character making, because you kind of reference that early on. There's 1048 01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:32.960 a lot of things, particularly with the crunchier D and D additions, with 1049 01:14:33.239 --> 01:14:38.359 people on message boards doing builds and then posting them, but then like not 1050 01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:41.439 you're like, oh this is overpowered. Oh this is underpowered, but like 1051 01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.720 put it into action again. It's the like fiction first stuff or like does 1052 01:14:45.760 --> 01:14:48.199 it really matter? And like what's happening? It's all gonna lead away anyways, 1053 01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:54.119 And so simple decisions that like really tell a lot are always more impactful 1054 01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:57.279 to me. These are the games that I am drawn to. And so 1055 01:14:57.399 --> 01:15:00.119 what I liked about the play test that I got to do with you was 1056 01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:04.399 the description of making the entity, which is appearance, hunger, power, 1057 01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:09.880 and limitation. And so it's back to the days of making your own character 1058 01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:11.760 sheet. And I just have a piece of paper in front of me, 1059 01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:14.399 and I write those things down and I say I'm done. I don't need 1060 01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:16.439 a three hundred page rule book. I don't need to look at these charts, 1061 01:15:17.159 --> 01:15:20.039 and I have complete ownership over this thing. And nobody told me what 1062 01:15:20.159 --> 01:15:26.159 I can and can't do. So I made ten thousand tiny razor sharp slugs. 1063 01:15:26.239 --> 01:15:30.279 That's his name. His appearance is ten thousand tiny razor sharp slugs. 1064 01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:36.399 His hunger is human hair. His powers a weird one. I love that 1065 01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:39.600 one. I'm sorry, I love that one. When you were doing your 1066 01:15:39.680 --> 01:15:42.920 character introduction for this latist, I loved that hunger so much because it was 1067 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:45.880 so unsettling. I was like, what's like hair? You know, I'm 1068 01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:53.039 a spooky lad. At one point, one of my PCs described my campaigns, 1069 01:15:53.159 --> 01:15:58.640 or my gram pains, as they said, as aggressively strange, which 1070 01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:03.520 I feel like I ought to be on my right the grand pain. Yeah, 1071 01:16:03.560 --> 01:16:08.319 also not mine, uh like uh, And they were referred to as 1072 01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:13.079 aggressively strange. So, you know, a shout out to the many really 1073 01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:17.199 really bizarre campaigns that have run over the years. So appearance, hunger, 1074 01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:23.600 human hair, it's power. Well, I'm ten thousand tiny Razor Sharp's slugs 1075 01:16:24.479 --> 01:16:29.920 and my limitation is salt tea food. That's it, and that's it, 1076 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:31.199 and that's my character. And I've have it there in this little slab of 1077 01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:34.640 paper, and I'm like, I'm ready to go, like that. It 1078 01:16:35.239 --> 01:16:41.880 was not done, and I want to know more. That's that's tabletop role 1079 01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:45.800 plane and and that's and that is the true beauty of tabletop ARPGs. And 1080 01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:48.520 that's what I really love about it. And I think that's gonna be a 1081 01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:51.159 great place for us to end it. Thank you all so much for for 1082 01:16:51.239 --> 01:16:55.000 listening. If you still are listening, you're still tuned in. Um, 1083 01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:57.439 thanks for chilling out. Please let us know if this is an episode that 1084 01:16:57.439 --> 01:17:00.319 you would like us to revisit, because I have of I'm looking over at 1085 01:17:00.359 --> 01:17:03.399 my list. I have many, many, many, many many more stories 1086 01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:08.359 that we could share, but I am really interested in hearing your stories as 1087 01:17:08.439 --> 01:17:15.840 well. So desks and dorks or sorry, it's that it's desks and dorks. 1088 01:17:15.319 --> 01:17:17.880 Uh. For love of god, I should know my own email from 1089 01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:20.359 my own company, and it's do you know what? This is just the 1090 01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:27.479 picture of professionalism. Ah, I'm saying that this is not automated that you 1091 01:17:27.560 --> 01:17:30.960 always zip through this. It's just desks and dorks at gmail dot org. 1092 01:17:31.039 --> 01:17:34.319 Please please shoot un email or if you're watching this on YouTube, let us 1093 01:17:34.319 --> 01:17:38.600 know in the comments below because we do read those, um the ones that 1094 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:42.359 we get. So again, thank you all so much, and um we'll 1095 01:17:42.399 --> 01:17:44.800 catch you next time. Please make sure you play in RPG this week at 1096 01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:47.319 some point with somebody you know. And that's been the greatest showman. And 1097 01:17:48.399 --> 01:17:55.000 I'm p t Barnum's goats. Goodbye, everybody in zippity zap z out Stay