WEBVTT

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It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with
Jack and carn S e O and JP

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Sorrows He's a lapsed fan. In
all my years and wrestling, I've never

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seen anything like rop kicking. It's
the laps Fan man number one in the

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ring begin about Osada, a real
king of swing when the bell goes hang

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and a kick like me throoming in
the corner with its rash like stick.

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Even Jerry King could say off the
crown nodded in his head like Steve low

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Brown? Would you get low down? We go even high up? Trip

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you on your head? But you
no cool drive speaking monology and dragon slits

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fire give you more shot than the
edge, retire from dropping more truth than

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the conn of sniper unless you would
a coconut Roddy Piper out, Jack a

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JP, you a j y D
drop a cupcakes and got the brain Bob

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Beans. The best podcast from the
start, the close file of Your Benefit.

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It's a passic at polls. Time
to get greedy. Yes, I

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mean deep in the archives of ten
years of TLF is the history of WCW.

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If you arrange it a certain way, Yeah, totally absolutely, but

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not until now. In the happenstance
of the random draw. After our most

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recent regular episode was the final WCW
pay per view Greed in the archive.

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What do you say we get this
one on the shelf and really at a

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time when WCW is all the rage, Oh, I know right, I

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believe, I believe it's time to
partake in the seventh sins Fame. Here's

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the goal of every warrior who steps
into the ring. Fortune is his reward

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for destroying all challengers in the end. What they grave most is power.

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You cannot imagine what one man will
do to stay on top and how far

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or rest will Joe will bring them
down until you order w CW Greed Live

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and I didn't read Eastern only on
paper view. Don't miss out order now.

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How WCW is that ad Oh?
I mean it is. It is

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quintessential WCWS. It's kind of WW
that you need at house. So because

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it's got that that guy doing that
voice, he was the WW guy.

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I think he did a couple WWW
ones as well, or maybe someone similar,

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but he was very very like he
was about. He was definitely the

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WCW announcer voice. He's about delivering
on a theme. Yes, indeed,

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because they used to name their pay
per views before they had a fucking clue

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what the matches were going to be. Yeah, so the marketing had to

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be you know, these broad stroke
like philosophical statements about conquering and things like

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that. That makes sense to me? What's wrong with that? And this

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would be the final salvo in that
regard. WCW greed from March two thousand

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and one, Jacksonville, Florida,
interestingly, the future home of AW,

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hosting the final WW pay per view. Where were you in terms of WCW

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watching at this point in time?
I mean, this is essential weird,

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nothing at all. I mean I've
actually just started college at this point.

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You know, I started January of
two thousand and one, so I would

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have been I would have been completely
I mean I was. I was definitely

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on WW dot com, and I've
pretty much forgotten that WW existed. Yeah,

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until WW dot COM's main headline was
WWW Purchases WCW. Yes, then

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wow. Matter again. I mean
we've talked about that, We've done the

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final Nitro, We've done Bash of
the Beach two thousand, which in many

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ways was the precursor to say nothing
of like New Blood Rising in the full

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Starkad Memorial tour. But this time
period is just so bizarre because right until

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the very last minute, you have
an Eric Bischoff who's working to facilitate a

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final purchase of WCW by a company
called Fusion Media Ventures, and it's kind

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of trying to set the pieces for
a big relaunch, a big restart,

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a big reboot on a show which
was to be called The Big Bang in

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May of two thousand and one,
right I remember that, which has become

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lower because of course it didn't happen. But suffice to say, this show

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is kind of like the fumes of
the late stage planning to create the circumstances

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for the hiatus. You have all
of WCW's highest paid stars, from the

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Hogans and Goldbergs and Nashes all the
way down eventually to DDP at the end

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of this show being taken out or
being sidelined or shelved, many of them

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by WCW World Champion at the time, Scott Steiner. And so the idea

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was that Steiner, with the backing
of Rick Flair's Magnificent Seven stable as Flair

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was storyline CEO of World Championship wrestling
at the time and had the spiked hair

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from losing the hair match to Russo
in two thousand. Oh, I didn't

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even know, you know, I
always wonder what that spiked hair was all

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about. So it was that's how
it grew back. We spent a lot

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of time dissecting Vince's hair growing back
after WRESTLINGIA twenty three, and now it

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didn't behave as it should have.
Yeah right, No, no, no,

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it did not. And I think
the same can be said for the

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Nature Boy after he got his head
shaved in two thousand. You know though,

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I actually you know, didn't mind
his shaved head. Look, it

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kind of was okay, oh yeah, it wasn't offensive. It just wasn't

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what it should have meant. It
never got back to the way it should

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have meant. No, it did
not. It did not because then he

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started you know by aa too.
But yeah, no, but you know,

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when your hair, when you cut
your hair, and that much,

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you know, that much disaster happens
to it after the fact. It's just

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not it's not normal. It's not
okay. And uh yeah, I mean

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yeah, because yeah, he started
parting it when he came to w WE

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in the fall and stuff, and
yeah, it's just also not normal or

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okay, was World Championship Wrestling of
course at this point in time. And

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so they're they're doing this kind of
cleaning of house, and Bishov's notion was

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to go off the air for a
couple of months and then relaunch big time

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under new ownership, with new contracts
in place with TBS and TN or maybe

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just TBS. There's all kinds of
different kind of shades of the deal that

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we're being talked about. And as
we know, at the last minute,

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word came across the transom that Turner
Networks no longer wanted pro wrestling, and

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thus interest in the deal that had
been put together waned severely without those t

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FEET contracts, and before you know
it, what do you know, the

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only guy who really has any value
or any use rather or sees any value

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in WCW is Vince McMahon. He's
the only guy without television that has a

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use for what. No, who
did it? That was you? Vince?

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I don't know if you remember you
wanted the IP as I remember correctly,

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Oh, I wanted well, basically
I wanted to create the IP.

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No, the IP was already created. You just wanted to acquire it for

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video distributions. I wanted to create
the ip of ww okay, well you

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actually tried to do that for a
heartbeat. We'll get to that and so

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much more. But two thousand and
one is the weirdest year ever in wrestling

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ever? Are none? Yes,
was in such an and to watch this

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show, this sort of lame duck
WCW and see kind of the outlines of

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like a youth movement. You know, they had this thing. Russo started

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it where it's like they just went
to the power plant. They were like,

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look all these guys training, Ohair, Jindrak, Plumbo, Elix,

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Skipper, Alan Funk, so many
guys. Let's just bring him up.

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Let's just pretend they're ready. Oh
bizarre, Let's just say they're ready and

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men, and some of them were. Most of them weren't in terms of

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having the inn ring polish where you
didn't feel like they were green every step

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they took right and here agreed.
We see them trying, honest to goodness

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to put some of these guys over, in particular Plumbo and O'Hare. And

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this is just such a rich story
that we'll get to as they defeat Lex

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Luger and Buff bagwell two guys that, let's say, weren't necessarily oriented towards

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making the next generation and at this
point in time, we're very much feathering

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their own nest. But they put
him over here and there's a backstory to

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it, but it's just like,
Wow, this is a WCW just stripped

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down where it's like anyone who would
pull a political power play was sidelined,

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you know, for purposes of waiting
out the deal. And so this is

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like pure unadultre rated like what WCW
has left when you strip away the big

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money contracts. And that's a lot
of work rate. I mean, the

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show is just like there's a lot
of action, some of it's kind of

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some of it's kind of like repetitive, like every match is a work rate

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match, you know, sure if
you if that's what you want to call

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it, Sure, Well what did
you think of the show watching it for

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I presume the first time? Yeah, it was the first time I knew

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about it. I had never seen
it, and I thought it was just

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a just a fucking shit show of
bizarre yeah randomness. When you say bizarre,

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yeah, please, well, like
I don't I don't know what a

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Kui Wei is? Oh my god, well we get to that. I

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don't know what that is. I
don't certainly don't know what a Jason Jet

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is either. I just was like, what the fuck is this? What

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am I watching? You understand why
everything in The Magnificent Seven's locker room is

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told through the lens of a documentary
camera with the record red light on the

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screen. No, First of all, I magnificence is Steve McQueen here,

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right, is Jul Brynner here?
I didn't know what is Do they mentioned?

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Do they even say you're talking about
Magnificent seven? As if I know

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what it is? I don't is
it? Would do they actually talk about

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that? Did they mention that name? I just saw a bunch of weird

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shit back there. Maybe they talked
about They talked about all the time on

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TV, but perhaps on the actual
Greed broadcast they didn't say it more than

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once. Uh, at least it
didn't it didn't sink in as being a

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thing. Yeah, they would talk
about it a lot during this time when

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it was Flair and Jarrett and Buff
and Luger and Animal and all those guys.

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You see Rick Steiner, Palin around
because the only storyline they really have

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is group warfare. That's the only
thing WCW ever could really wrap its head

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around is group warfare. And so
whether it's New Blood versus Millionaires Club NW

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A Wolfpack for Senbo HOLLYWOODWW that was
my next one, absolutely, you know,

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Filthy Ammals and LWO and all the
different variations of it. And so

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the group warfare at the time was
Magnificent seven was pretty much the Millionaire's Club.

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They just went back to what was
so successful in two thousand and so

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very much righted the ship. This
idea of putting all the big earners on

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this side of the bracket and the
lower earners on the left side of the

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bracket and somehow pretending this time that
the older guys were going to do business

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was again apparently their bright idea,
and the outlines of it are here,

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but it's also so lame duck that
it's like, what was this really because

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when you hear Bischoff talk about it, you know he was just saying,

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don't fuck anything up. That's all
creative was at the time. Don't get

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the deal off the rails, and
what happens now The idea is no one

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will remember it when we do the
relaunch. So you got to watch this

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show through that lens in part.
But it come to find out as history

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unfolded. As people showed up to
the arena in Jacksonville that night for the

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final WV pay per view, what
would come to be the final ww pay

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per view, it was already pretty
much known WWF was going to buy WSW.

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The word was trickling out to a
select few. It's kind of like

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the Benoit tragedy where it's like everyone
pretends they didn't know right about, you

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know, him potentially being the murderer, but they sever It's clear from the

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timeline that several probably did, and
it's clear from watching some of the prevarications

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on the testimonials shot backstage that people
had a guilty conscience about memorializing him,

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knowing what this could evidence. But
same thing here in terms of, you

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know, everyone talks about showing up
to that final nitro two weeks after this

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in Panama City, Florida, and
everyone really not knowing what's going on and

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not not really buying that WWF had
bought them until Shane McMahon and Bruce Pritchard,

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another WWF personnel show up at Nitro
and we know where it goes from

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there. They're not buying that,
and people aren't buying ww pa per views.

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You aren't buying WCW. That's that's
why it happened. And people aren't

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buying w W pay per views.
Absolutely, there was there was a stemming

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of the two thousand bleeding in two
thousand and one and the you know,

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three months that they were on the
air, But it was nothing that indicated

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increased interest. It was just like, okay, it's getting it was getting

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worse and getting worse and getting worse
from a television rating standpoint. But I'm

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not sure that two thousand and one, the first three months of two thousand

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and one were on track to be
as challenging as the first three months of

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two thousand. Maybe they were.
I didn't do that analysis. It's going

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to get worse before it gets better, you know. That's just that's just

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business, that's true. The idea
of calling agreed, by the way,

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is seven deadly sins. You know, So like w W SIN started the

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year if you remember January two thousand
and one, Ah, sure, and

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then they did Super Bowl and then
I guess they were going to do or

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at least the idea on the drawing
board before all this sellout talk happened was

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Greed and then the other sins I
guess would be paper ofview names. What

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would that leave the sloth I can
think of. Really, the one that

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I was actually would be looking forward
to is gluttony. Well, yeah,

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that was this. That was this
main event as Dusty Rhoades eats burritos on

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the broadcast. And I don't mean
one. You tell us that we're making

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it up when we say it's about
food. Oh my god, this whole

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angle to build to the Dusty and
Dustin versus Ricclair and Jeff Jarrett match is

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a tray of burritos that Dusty is
going to ingest. Just a it's a

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farce. It's a farce. It's
such a farce. Put a postal stamp

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on it. It's being mailed in. My god, wrath Envy. I

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wonder if they would have brought Brian
Clark back at Brian Clark back for wrath

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Lust. Plenty of that in the
company at the time. Envy. Absolutely

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yes. So it's greed and Diamond
Dall's page challenges Scott Steiner in the main

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event for the w W World Championship. Solid little match, kind of interesting.

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It's almost like a it's an attempt
at like an attitude ear a WWF

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brawling style main event in w's tribute
Sure, and you can see Page sort

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of a I don't know, I'm
not saying he did this, but it's

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almost like auditioning for being able to
do the WWF headline style in a way.

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But Page ends up just another victim
of Scott Steiner's rampage of taking everybody

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out. The idea ultimate was Goldberg
would be the one to return to finally

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challenge Steiner because they always saw money
in a Scott Stent or Goldberg program for

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the title, which I think makes
sense. I could see that that's a

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that's a decent money program. They
got the physical imposing thing done down.

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I should say, all those boxes
checked, so that that would have been

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That would have been the closest thing
they probably could have put together at that

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point in time to a money match
up, something that had a chance of

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drawing above the typical audience number.
So that's where they were heading. Goldberg

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was going to be one to stop
this Steiner rampage. It goes through DDP

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on this show, and it's a
wild match in terms of, like I

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don't know, just kind of out
of character for w W man events,

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say, some of the page ones
with like Savage, some of the No

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DQ style. They fight all over
the building, they right crack weapons over

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each other's heads. It's it's very
it's very much like that. And uh,

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you know, at a certain point, Paul London, of all people,

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the future wrestling star Paul London,
who apparently was just getting started in

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the business is front Row, was
a planted fan at this show, handing

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d what appears to be I don't
know, a vinyl record or a piece

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of cookwhere that he cracks over Scott
Steiner's had. I don't know what that

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thing was got me. That was
just that was bizarre. There's that it

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was him until you told me it
was him. Yeah, Yeah, it's

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definitely him. And he's never talked
about it as far as I can tell,

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having you know, searched for it
every way from Sunday, I've never

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seen him talk about what he was
doing there is. It sort of seems

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to be before he really even broke
in and got his first match as a

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pro. But that was that was
something that struck us as a curiosity and

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so much more about what the mindset
was coming into this final w W pay

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per view I mentioned and we'll get
to who that might be in this category.

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That why he said, Who fucking
hell Jesus did I say anvil?

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I'm thinking to myself, why would
I say anvil? But those little curiosities

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and just the general thing of like
who knew what coming into greed, you

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know, in terms of where things
were going, and that this would in

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fact be the final pay per view
for the foreseeable future prompted us to do

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a little outreach. And it's a
journey, ladies and gentlemen, but you're

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co chairman. Thanks to the resources
you in the solar system make possible,

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00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:10.960
was able to secure a bit of
let's say, a cameo by w W

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Green headliner DDP Yo JP, what's
up, brother, it is me.

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It is d d P. Domindell's
page the King about it being the master

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got that the diamond, three time
world Champion, w a W Hall of

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Famer of course, Pounder Ceo,
DDP Yoga and power Cups changing the world,

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brother, excellent, So JP,
this is actually for you, so

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big fan, reading what you wrote, love w CW and Rader rumble very

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cool. What was the main event? What was it like main eventing the

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last w CW PPV. You know, I didn't think it was the last

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one because I knew Bischoff at the
time was buying w CW. So it's

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00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.839
gonna be pretty interesting to see where
they go with this Who Killed the w

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00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:18.319
CW. To me, they didn't
pick it. They didn't show like the

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00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:25.960
like the the Sonic Rise past w
c H, bess WWF. He kind

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of irritated me a little bit that
time on that to build that before you

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take it down. So long story
short, I didn't It'll be, like

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00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:45.519
said, we're interested to how they
handled Who Killed w CW. But Eric

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00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.920
Heshoff was buying the company, and
I think you'll see that in his next

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00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:57.000
two weeks on that show. But
he had the money, he had the

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backing, he had the contracts.
They were going to guarantee they were going

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to take pay fifty million for the
companies. How I remember it, Okay,

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they're gonna pay fifty million for the
company, and as I remember,

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they were also going to guarantee all
the mainstream contacts contracts. Hope show mine,

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freg your Nash Hall saying every Goldberg
everybody. So this is a mainstream

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contract. Is that what he said? Its true right, as opposed to

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I guess the other an independent contry. Yo, JP, How fuck I

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thought I had it on a pause
and resume. Sorry, ruin that for

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you. We're gonna have to we
have to countenance it just for a minute

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here. But I'll turn I'll turn
it way down, so we sorry,

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fast forward to these sons of bitches? Is there uh not really now?

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Fuck? Anyway? We One of
the things I'm glad I can this opportunity.

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Actually, that that we want to
ask him about as well, is

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during the course of the match with
Scott Steiner, there's just some random person

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on crutches in the yeah on the
audiences. They're brawling in the crowd,

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and it grabs the crutch and smashes
Scott's center with that. Who is that

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00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:15.799
guy? You know? How did
you and why right? And how did

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you get that guy? How did
he get out of the building if he

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if he couldn't walk, but how
do you get the building for that matter?

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And how to get over in that
particular area of the building. Many

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people ask the same question about DDP. How did he get over in this

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particular area? So did he did
we ask him what he thought about who

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killed WCW. No, No,
that was not in the that wasn't in

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the in the in the questionnaire.
I guess he wanted of the four parts,

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three of them to be about how
awesome nineteen ninety eight was nineteen seven?

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Okay, I mean, sure,
Kyle, whatever you do. The

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sonic rise, I mean, look, yeah, yeah, there is.

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He thought they were going to play
him Diamond cutting Scott Holland refuting the nWo

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00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.440
mon didn't happen. But I gotta
remember, you know, Bischoff and DDP

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00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.720
thickest thieves DP. I think even
was his neighbor for years. And you

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00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.920
know, as you see DDP operating
in WCW, to me, you always

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00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.759
have to see Eric Bischoff operating in
WCW because he's a guy who you know,

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00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.559
Page talks a lot about, you
know, sort of being in Eric's

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00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.440
head at the at the time of
the of the sale, and has a

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00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:27.440
lot of insight about you know,
suggestions made along the way and reading you

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00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:33.160
know, reading mind. So he's
clearly he's clearly connected, and so his

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00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.000
insights go beyond just the fact that
he was in the ring for the main

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event, but the fact that he
was probably close counsel to Bischoff at the

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00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:45.400
time and perhaps even even today.
And as I remember, they were also

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00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:53.960
going to guarantee all the mainstream contacts
contracts, whole show mine frigging Nash Hall

298
00:20:55.519 --> 00:21:00.759
saying every Goldberg, everybody that is
probably not a thirty million. We had

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00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:08.279
Hulkin and Ship and Goldberg and staying
to me it was going to continue like

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00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:15.680
there was no w WF gonna buy
the company. No one knew that till

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00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:21.079
that night. Now I don't know
if they'll let me say this, because

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00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:26.920
I know I said it when the
interviewed before who killed w CW. The

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00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:32.599
only way to me that Vince won
the war as if he did this.

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00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:38.440
And there's been this rumor, but
I thought of this frigid years ago.

305
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:48.000
Harvey Harvey, he's und named Jami
Kilner was the guy that was a chart

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00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:52.799
of all of TBS, DNT,
Turner sports in general. He hated wrestling.

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00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:59.920
He wanted to get rid of wrestling. So when they saw that Bishap

308
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:04.039
was buying it for fifty million,
and I had to give ten years of

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00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.079
TBS. How I remember it.
Jamie's like, why did you guarantee him

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00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:14.599
ten years on TBS? And they
were like, well, that's the hottest

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00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.240
show we have. He's like,
we ain't gonna be to wrestle on network.

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00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:25.440
Cancel wrestling now. The only reason
that he why would he not give

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00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:32.119
Eric Bischoff a month or two or
three to get another network and still get

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00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:37.880
their fifty million and get thirty million
off their books. But that's not what

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00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.920
happened. He didn't do the smart
thing. He said, fuck it,

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00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:49.279
we're canceling WCW, which I really
didn't. It didn't. It wasn't like

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00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.680
something that you know, made me
go, oh my god, I can't

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00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.480
believe it, because as far as
I was concerned at the end of my

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00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.799
career, I was going to end
up in a ww IF anyway. What

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00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.200
you don't think about when that's happening
is all those people who worked for so

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00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.839
long for w CW, all the
camera guys, all the right I mean,

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00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.319
all the people who made it behind
the scenes. They might have been

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00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.039
doing that job for five, fifteen, twenty twenty five years and now it's

324
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:23.039
gone. So the bottom line is
he would just burn it down. Jamie

325
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:30.079
Kilner would just burn it down and
then sell it to Vince for five million

326
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:36.000
dollars the name, all the rights, everything of WCW. There was definitely

327
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:41.599
some under the table money so coming
to Jamie Kilner as mister vincent man.

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00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.799
And Vince did do that, then
he wanted to work. So hey,

329
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.720
my mind is that's not part of
your question. But you were saying,

330
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.519
like, what was I feeling when
it was ending? It was like,

331
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.039
I didn't think it was ending.
I thought it was just going to keep

332
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.920
going and with Eric, and I
wasn't sure I really wanted to sign,

333
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:04.319
you know, because I knew I
wanted to get to WW where I still

334
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:08.039
had at the time, you know, still had miles to go. I

335
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:12.079
got a couple more runs in me. But it didn't work out that way

336
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:19.119
anyway. And then Vince completely anybody
who was WCW just listening to Goldberg talk

337
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:23.839
about how he feels he was treated, and I thought he got treated unbelievably

338
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:29.000
well compared to me. But it
wasn't me. It was whoever the first

339
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:32.559
guy from WCW was going in there
that was going to get, you know,

340
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:37.720
beat down, and it was just
business for them. What did it

341
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.079
feel like with WC was at the
ending. I think that pretty much sums

342
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.079
it up right there. It was
brutal, and it was brutal for what

343
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.279
I heard, Like I heard that
day and I wasn't scheduled for TV.

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00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:57.119
I heard that day, this is
the last nightro and here's our writing TV

345
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.440
and I I heard that. I
called up whatever producer and said, you

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00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:11.240
got to give me three or four
minutes to thank the w CW fans for

347
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.720
allowing me to live the dream that
I did, because if they don't get

348
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:23.119
behind me and everybody doesn't start doing
this, I get that push. The

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00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.720
relationships I had would Here's a great
picture of me and Kevin in the early

350
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:36.079
days and Scotty Bingo Flamingo. But
that's Raven right there in between our hands.

351
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.920
And this is when I was managing
Scott hol and created the home gimmick

352
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:45.000
and everything which would later become raisor
Ramone. Look at Scott hole before he

353
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:52.039
looked like that. I created that
look for him. And I had real

354
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.799
relationships with those guys, so real
relationships, and those two, of course

355
00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:02.759
Jakey were my mentors. Uh.
They guided me through a lot of the

356
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:07.559
friggin treacherous waters that is professional wrestling. So that's the only reason I'd have

357
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.880
given it getting a run ahead.
But when I knew we were ending,

358
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.480
I wanted to come there and thank
the fans, and I got to do

359
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:18.720
that. Who's the kidney crunches?
Just somebody's nephew or something. I had

360
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.680
no idea. I haven't set that
up. I'd be like, Bro,

361
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.079
you'd be here with the crutches.
I'm going to take the crutch away from

362
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.759
you to hit him with it.
So I'm sure that's what happened. It

363
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:32.680
was like a spot I would do
occasionally. And that's funny. He said,

364
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.640
what did Paul One didn't give you
during the match? Like, I

365
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:40.559
don't remember Paul doing something in that. He might have. I'm sure he

366
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.160
did, but I don't remember that. I would like to have seen them

367
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:49.960
when I go back and watch that
book for that. And was the program

368
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:56.599
Starner going to continue? No,
that was like my shot again at that

369
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.680
title run, and then Scotty probably
was going to keep going with it,

370
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:06.880
and then it would be wherever wherever
it goes. You know what happened At

371
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:11.680
the end, Rouster finally got his
way and got the strap on Booker t

372
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.279
who I thought it was one of
the greatest talents of all time. I

373
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:22.599
mean, he was a great human
being, and I mean a guy who

374
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.319
went down a very dark path back
when he was in high school and Robin

375
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.319
and holding up places and ship and
did a couple of years time. Well

376
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:34.039
he came out. Man, he
was going to be a changed man,

377
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:40.759
and he led by example and one
of my favorite people ever. So I

378
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:45.880
was glad to see that title switch. And then I liked that it ended

379
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:51.960
very last night with Player and Stinger
because you know, that was that was

380
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.200
the steak you know, for pretty
much when I say steak, like steak,

381
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:03.960
meat and potatoes. You know,
those guys almost really were the cornerstones

382
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:08.960
of the company before Hulk and Brandy
and Kevin Scott all came in. And

383
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:14.599
we did this amazing thing with Lex
and uh, it was a hel of

384
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.400
It was al of a run,
man. I hope that's what you were

385
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.839
looking for. I hope you liked
it. I want to give you thirty

386
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:29.200
days free on the app. Just
go to dot com backslash cameo or forward

387
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:32.880
slash cameo and you'll get thirty three
days on the app bro, Now you

388
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.559
choose a JP. Get on that. Damn Matt, I just gave you

389
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:42.839
thirty three days and do your d
dpuy or else ba see your brother.

390
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:45.279
I hope you liked it. Leave
me a review, all right, I

391
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:51.799
know what you thought. You know. What's funny is that he uh so

392
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:56.640
so I didn't leave a review right
away, and then all of a sudden

393
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.359
I got a message from him,
Oh my god, could you please a

394
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.559
review? Oh my, he's such
a he's such a YELP guy, you

395
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:08.920
know, like he's such a review
economy guy. He he he survives because

396
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:14.119
of reviews. Yeah, he like
he lives for like the play store star

397
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:18.119
ratings like yeah, app Store like
top ten for sure. Well, good

398
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.160
for good on him. Thanks for
the cameo. Had a lot of insight

399
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.240
there, I guess. I guess
it says a lot that he doesn't remember

400
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.960
the match hardly at all. Yeah. You know, that's always a challenge

401
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:30.799
for us because it's like we're doing
surgery on this stuff, and these guys

402
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.279
don't even remember when had happened for
the most part, right then, I

403
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:37.720
remember what they I mean, they
don't remember what they ate for dinner tonight.

404
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.640
I think that is such a drawback
of these things. It's like they

405
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:44.039
don't read them until they hit record, and it's like, dude, right,

406
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.559
you could have just pulled it up
in fourteen seconds and you could have

407
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.519
watched like, you know, you
could have watched like five seconds of the

408
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.160
match and had a lot more to
say about it. It'll be fifty more

409
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.359
dollars. I'm sure, right,
I'm sure, which is fine. I

410
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:56.680
bet she'd have requested that in the
in the thing and she's said, can

411
00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:00.400
you please go back and watch this
for rep? Yeah, yeah, there

412
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.799
you go. But then he'd have
to hit stop and he's not going to

413
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:07.359
do that. Yeah, but you
know you're talking about like the crutch spot

414
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:10.440
he used to do. Why would
since when does DDP need a crutch out

415
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:15.039
there? But it turns out as
sort of copasetic as he made it sound

416
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.039
between him and Scott Steiner, that
this match actually was not the easiest to

417
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.599
get in the ring in terms of
like the long picture of relations between these

418
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.000
two. Scott Steiner was an absolute
headcase at WCW at the time, constantly

419
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:32.359
finding reasons to come back through the
curtain and start pushing people and things and

420
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.559
knocking things over and expressing frustration at
what he perceived to be in competence,

421
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.720
or just any little thing would have
him fly off the handle. And it's

422
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:41.839
interesting to hear people talk about people
that knew him well, like whether he

423
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.559
was actually just being big popa Pump
twenty four to seven, or if he

424
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:51.359
actually was just completely out of control
of his own emotions an asshole. I

425
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.640
know. So he's scary. I
mean he's scary. Absolutely everybody was scared

426
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.400
of him. And do you use
that knowing no one will ever step to

427
00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:00.279
you? Do you just keep using
that to get your way? You know

428
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:02.680
what I mean? When you sense
that no one's ever going to step to

429
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:04.480
you, if you get physical and
you want something that's going to advance your

430
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.799
career or keep your character relevant or
allow you to say what you want to

431
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.920
say in the microphone, you're obliged
to go fucking ape shit all the time.

432
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.599
You know, if you're scared,
if you're scared of me, I'm

433
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:18.680
going to make sure I keep it
that way. Yeah, that's why I

434
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:23.240
always kind of surmise. But besides
the Michigan connection that Kevin Nash was so

435
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.759
it genuflected so much towards the Steiners
and and stuff. You know why they

436
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:30.839
worked with them. Shortly after coming
in as the outsiders, he's a little

437
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.920
afraid to Scott. I'm sure,
sure a guy who could actually shoot on

438
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:40.839
him. But it's it's a wild
time because part of Steiner going nuts is

439
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:44.839
getting in ddp's ex wife, Kimberly's
face. Remember Kimberly, Oh sure,

440
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:47.720
not only just as Valley and nitroglow
by this point. By the time Russo

441
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:49.799
comes in, he puts her on
screen as a full on character with dialogue

442
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:55.599
and romances and intrigues and dolliance's.
We talked about her playing a role in

443
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.519
ddp's storyline with Jarrett Millionaires Club in
two thousand when we the Bash at the

444
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.359
Beach run through of Ball of the
Russo Bischoff Nitros, which which was just

445
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.000
such I had to revisit some of
that preparing for this episode. What a

446
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.440
we we battled? Man? We
had to battle? I summarized like an

447
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.400
episode of Nitro. It took me
like five minutes without stopping, and you

448
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:22.079
were just like what happened? Who
ran over who in a dumpster and then

449
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.960
survived to come back and eat it? Eat a pie? And then jump

450
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:30.799
off a building. You know,
ate a pie right page of the six

451
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:37.440
steak reference in there too. He
was getting hungry. He almost sudden,

452
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:39.839
he says the steak. I'm like
with the what someone someone's got something on

453
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.839
the grill. Yeah. He timed
that cameo just for the amount of time

454
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:55.880
for medium Rare oh Man, so
he to get a history of Steiner having

455
00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:01.400
confronted Kimberly backstage at WCW and causing
frick with DDP such that it actually blew

456
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:06.359
up for real one time between the
two backstage. It actually came to blows

457
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.799
between these two and a backstage skirmish. It was so weird because at the

458
00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:16.079
time WCW was not totally out of
the habit of producing backstage shouting matches with

459
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:20.400
the hopes that you know, people
would leak it as like a scoop to

460
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.039
the sheets and they'd feel good because
the sheets would report something they worked as

461
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.440
something that was a shoot. But
then also to their way of thinking,

462
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.440
it would provide you know, further
ammo for the television show and make it

463
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:34.920
seem more real. And there was
one between DDP and Buff Bagwell one time

464
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.240
that they put on the air shortly
after Russo took the book and all of

465
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.039
it has just a tremendous track record
of great success, is what I'm trying

466
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:44.880
to do. I mean, you
know, Pillman literally works the workers and

467
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:46.720
signs with WWF and we'll just keep
trying that over and over again because that

468
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:51.559
one worked out in our favors so
well, and why not. But here

469
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.759
is from Brian Elvarez's death of WCW
what I thought was a handy summation of

470
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.640
just several months prior to this December
of two thousand going into Starkad, when

471
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:07.759
Sid wrestled Sid in the main event, defending champion a skirmish between DDP and

472
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:12.199
Steiner. That makes it just a
little bit more intriguing knowing about this taking

473
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:15.079
in the greed main event. Boss
take it away, all right. The

474
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:21.000
week of December eighteenth saw everything go
to hell again as both participants in the

475
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:25.280
Starkad main event were stirring up problems
behind the scenes. First, Sid walked

476
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:35.480
out unhappy. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. Sid walked

477
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:38.920
out, i'mhappy about being asked to
lose to Steiner at Starkade. He claimed

478
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:43.599
he'd been promised the finish would be
a double count out, but then WCW

479
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:49.039
double crossed him and changed to him
getting pinned. He told people that he

480
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.679
wasn't ultimately upset about the change,
but rather about the fact that nobody was

481
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:57.320
man enough to come up and tell
him to his face instead of just handing

482
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.360
him a piece of paper with the
new plan written on it. In end,

483
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:04.039
Sid agreed to lose, and plans
to change it to a three way

484
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:09.320
so someone else could do the job
were scrapped. Then the big fight It

485
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:15.639
started with Steiner cutting one of his
now famous unscripted promos, this time on

486
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.320
Dallas Page. It was always funny
to hear company officials get upset about things

487
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.840
like this because historically it was entirely
their fault. Steiner, for example,

488
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:28.519
had never really been reprimanded for his
behavior. If anything, he'd been rewarded

489
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.800
time after time. He famously went
off on Rick Flair like crazy, saying

490
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.920
ww's boring and Steve Austin's better.
And of course he did all that without

491
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.679
having any play approval and having nothing
to do with where the storyline was pointing

492
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:47.679
or heading. Just tremendous stuff.
Love that earlier in the year he buried

493
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:51.639
Flair in an unscripted promo and was
told by management that it was one of

494
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:54.320
the best interviews of the year.
Well Sullivan has said that he confronted him

495
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:55.960
about it, said, you know, why are you going in this direction?

496
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.519
It doesn't make any sense, and
that Scott just kind of said,

497
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:00.519
you know, kind of like,
oh, yeah, I guess you're right,

498
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.880
and I'm just trying to be a
heal. So Sullivan claims to be

499
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.559
the only one who confronted him about
this, which I guess it doesn't contradict

500
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:13.039
that because what he's saying there is
everyone offered praise in a horrified state for

501
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:19.679
Scott to flying completely off the path. Yeah, of course, what are

502
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.280
you gonna do if I can tell
you say no to a psychopath? Great

503
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.960
promo? Scott cut nothing but great
promos as far as ninety eight percent of

504
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.000
the lanyard wearers at WCW back in
the day, we're concerned. I see

505
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:39.199
no problem with that, no problem
whatsoever. When was I there. Months

506
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:44.519
later, he threatened Terry Taylor and
was rewarded with a page vacation over the

507
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.559
weekend of July fourth, so as
antics continued and instead of being fined or

508
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:52.719
suspended. He found himself the WCW
world hadweight champion. If management was upset

509
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:57.800
with his behavior, they had nobody
but themselves to blame. Even more depressing,

510
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.239
the guys who actually worked hard,
behaved themselves and followed the rules were

511
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:07.280
rewarded by being buried on television.
But what it's worth that Terry Taylor episode,

512
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.920
according to Scott Center shoot interview he
did with our video, was because

513
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:14.320
they were supposed to play someone else's
music or his music, and they played

514
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:16.239
the wrong music and it got all
switched up and it pissed him off so

515
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.800
much. Then one came back and
just went after the first guy he saw,

516
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:23.599
Terry Taylor. So there was no
even no reason for it. It

517
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:28.159
wasn't exactly there, all right,
that's cool? I dig that. He

518
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:30.239
also quibbled with the idea that there
was a suspension related to that one,

519
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:37.679
So who's to say, Yeah,
well, rewarded by being buried on television.

520
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:42.079
Consequently, they gave up all hope. Steiner's promo against Page included the

521
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:45.519
following line, you should actually read
this, but why don't you convince Diamond

522
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:50.239
Dallas Page to get a sex change? So he has the balls to come

523
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:54.320
out here and face me. Page
was stretching in the locker room when Steiner

524
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:58.920
made the kiss comments. Ironically,
this was the same building where earlier in

525
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:01.039
the year Steiner and Paige, which
his wife Kimberly, had a verbal incident

526
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:06.119
that resulted in her quitting the company
for good. As soon as Steiner said

527
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.559
Paige had no balls, everyone in
the locker room imediately turned and looked over

528
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:13.320
at him, as if to see
what he was going to do about it.

529
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.280
According to one witness quote, the
air was totally sucked out of the

530
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:21.760
room. Page finished tying his boots
and walked down the stairs near the curtain.

531
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.400
As soon as Steiner walked backstage,
Page reportedly said quote, so I

532
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:30.360
don't have the balls to face you. Huh. They started swearing at each

533
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:36.840
other and a fight broke out.
Steiner took his fucking children. It's tremendous.

534
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:39.679
He's like, exactly what I want. He's like, you figure about

535
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:45.360
it, Like, okay, who
cares that? He said that, Like,

536
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:49.119
Oh, I'm a tough guy.
I gotta fucking fight this guy.

537
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.519
I think maybe it's like if he's
going to say things that I don't even

538
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.239
have anything to do with his storyline
just to piss people off. Maybe if

539
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:58.320
I don't confront him, he's just
going to keep doing it, and it's

540
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.400
going to harm everything, including me. Maybe that's what get to Page's mind.

541
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.559
But we'll hear a little bit more
about this from an interview he did

542
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:15.159
with Hannibal. In just a moment, all right, Uh, they started,

543
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:20.960
they thought Steiner took Page down and
started to pound on his face,

544
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.360
with mobile witnesses saying he went straight
for Page's eye. One source said that

545
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:30.639
Steiner had cut his fingernails earlier in
the day and that if he hadn't he

546
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.719
it would have been much. There's
always something like that. Whatever a wrestler

547
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:36.840
like hurts his neck, there's always
a doctor that said, you know,

548
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.360
if you weren't a wrestler, you'd
be dead. Yeah, I mean,

549
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.119
okay, So because he's a wrestler, he's not dead. I don't know.

550
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:49.400
He's a wrestler. He's built up, you know, incredible muscle protection

551
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.000
for his neck. I see,
Okay, well great. Uh. The

552
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:57.320
other wrestlers immediately jumped in to break
it up, and it reportedly took them

553
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.440
over one over a full minute to
pry Steiner off of Page. And it's

554
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.880
like i'd take a full cameo.
Another version of what I was saying to

555
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:09.480
is wrestlers cameo. Yeah, that
is I know, I mean in terms

556
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:14.360
of like scale. But another example
of what I said was, uh,

557
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.880
you know, for a wrestler gets
ejected from a car or you know what

558
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:20.079
I mean, takes like a big
fall, like they'll say, because they

559
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:22.320
were wrestler, saved their lives because
they knew how to bump. Yeah.

560
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:34.719
Right. Of course Page was bleeding
and had marks all over his face.

561
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:37.800
Well, I didn't know they let
fans back there. What does that have

562
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:47.840
to do with this story exactly?
He later told friends that Steiner wasn't just

563
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:52.679
scary, he was a killer.
I mean he was glad he walked away

564
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.920
from the fight alive. Page and
Nash immediately grabbed their stuff and left the

565
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.440
building, with some sources saying their
last words were we'll be back when they

566
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:13.159
are new owners. Okay. Steiner
then responded by cutting another promo, this

567
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.679
time focusing on Kimberly and saying some
very bad things about her. Steiner's punishment,

568
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:22.400
he continued to receive the biggest push
of his professional career. Goddamn right,

569
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:29.320
what would that hound bike? Mm
hmm. You know, Rick Flair,

570
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:36.360
you're taking your job a CEO way
too personal. And I know the

571
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:43.039
reason why. See when you were
champion, they said you were just average.

572
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.400
See when I'm the champion, now
they say I'm the genetic freak.

573
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:52.840
I'm the man with the largest arms
in the world. You you were just

574
00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:00.199
average. See when you were champion, you streak by victories. Me I

575
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:07.880
dominate, I destroyed because I'm the
real deal. And now you'll fight it

576
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:14.320
out as being CEO. It's a
lot more difficult than you thought. See,

577
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:19.679
you can't find enough wrestlers back there
brave enough to face me. Why

578
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:23.880
guy Night, dear for you.
Why don't you try to convince Diamond Dallas

579
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:29.360
Page to get a sex change.
So here's the boss to come out here

580
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:34.079
and face me. There it is, Wow, I know a good surgeon,

581
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:38.440
man, Flair. You're burning this
business a long time, and you're

582
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:44.039
seeing a lot of white trash and
a lot of Jabroni's. So when Damond

583
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:47.679
Dallas Breeze comes out here, it
says Sun five five, do your job.

584
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.840
Sat him back down to the Bushley's
wave belongs. He's out a line

585
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:57.039
here when it comes out here,
says, by the boom, by the

586
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:00.360
bank, by the bang, I
don't even know what the hell that means.

587
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:06.039
Send it back down to the bush
LEAs, because he's proof. You

588
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:12.280
could take somebody off the tray of
park. But he always be white trash.

589
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.039
He is way out of line here. He is a magnificent order.

590
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:22.360
All on my knees pegging new please
be diamond Down's page. My next opponent,

591
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:30.880
sont get tress out here and tell
me it is white trash trash?

592
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.599
What do I mean? What do
you hear in Steiner's voice? I mean,

593
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:37.880
we see Steiner on this show,
screaming at ringside fans. We see

594
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:43.840
him bulging at every vein. We
hear him just spitting into that microphone.

595
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:47.239
What is the state of the man? Boss? Make observations? Please the

596
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:53.480
the What I see as a man
who is just completely on drugs and it

597
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:59.079
was no fucking sense of what it
is that he's actually doing. He doesn't

598
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.039
give a shit, all right,
He just he's just there to he you

599
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.119
know, he doesn't care if he
upsets somebody else. You know, he's

600
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.440
a champion, he's making money,
He's able to do whatever he fucking wants.

601
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:14.320
And nobody does shit. He wants
you to get mad so he can

602
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.719
prove again that it doesn't matter exactly. The more you get mad, the

603
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:23.480
more money he makes. I mean, he's just screaming into that microphone,

604
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:29.000
screaming. I mean right, I
mean he's making whole Klogan look like he

605
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:34.000
like fucking whispers. What did you
think of Steiner back then singles big Papa

606
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:37.880
pump knowing as fuck? Really?
Yeah? I didn't. I didn't.

607
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:40.719
I was like when I found out
that he was world champion at one point,

608
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:45.519
I'm like him, really, all
right, he's got all the tools.

609
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:50.679
I guess that's what people say.
I don't know if I agree with

610
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.920
that booting in the fanny pack.
At the time, it did feel like,

611
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:55.960
I mean, when he he took
the title off book or I think

612
00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.159
a new Blood Rising, that's when
he like broke his sternum with a full

613
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:04.639
Nilsenbaum. Booker that isn't. Booker
was gone until February two thousand and one,

614
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.519
healing from that injury. But when
he won, people popped. It

615
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.519
was like, all right, like
this is a champion that signals an era.

616
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.079
You know, this isn't a champion
that signals, all right, well,

617
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:15.440
when's the next chapter going to start? Here? This is just like

618
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:20.840
someone holding water treading water, like
Jarrett's title runs felt that way. Booker,

619
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:22.000
as great as he was, felt
that way. You know, you

620
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.239
never really felt like, Okay,
they're building the company around Booker, like

621
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.639
Booker's going to headline every pay per
view and turn away challengers. It never

622
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.480
really felt that way with Steiner.
It was the first time in a while

623
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.199
at WCW, like two years,
that it felt like, Okay, they're

624
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:38.440
actually saying this is the guy to
care about, and they're putting all their

625
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:42.639
chips on that table. Really,
because you know, they didn't have many

626
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:49.480
other choices as they worked to you
know, ice people and potentially renegotiate contracts

627
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:52.719
as part of the Fusian's sale and
get people, you know, back on

628
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:57.480
board under new contractual arrangements. But
this this brawl became a bit of low

629
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.039
as you can imagine, between DDP
and Scott Steiner. Backstage here he talks

630
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.519
with Devin Nicholson of Hannibal TV.
Does page about the encounter, puts a

631
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:10.119
little more color on it. It
was just tempers that flew and uh,

632
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:20.320
Scotty said some things in interview.
That figuring put me over the top and

633
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:24.159
uh, when he got down to
the edge of the stairs, I said,

634
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:30.079
you think I'm a pussy motherfucker,
And Scott Steider put his head down

635
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:37.960
and he drove. It had to
be twenty feet before we landed. And

636
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:44.880
when we landed, somehow I had
him and like a fucking guilty and I'm

637
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:50.920
like, holy shit, I got
him so breaking. Now the guys are

638
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:54.440
coming around pull him off, like
I got hold of him, but he's

639
00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:59.239
you know, I'm trying to hold
on to him and then bringing them off

640
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:06.360
and then when they pick them up
by all arms. Scottie was so fucking

641
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.760
big man. He was like me, he said. I was like,

642
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:15.639
damn, he's scary. It was
like, it's a real moment for me,

643
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.119
bringing and fun. And I just
fucking kicked him his arm as I

644
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.440
came and then he came down on
me and I was like, oh boy,

645
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:28.760
this is a really bad spot to
me. So I went into the

646
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:32.559
fetal position trying to protect myself and
I didn't and they're trying to pull him

647
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:36.880
off right at that point, and
I didn't realize it, but he said

648
00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.920
his hand kept that kept coming in, and I didn't really realize it until

649
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:45.119
I went, oh my god,
he's trying to take my eye out,

650
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:49.760
and I think, man, that
will suck. I finally stood up to

651
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:53.559
that badass sun of a bitch and
now you're take my eye out, and

652
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:57.800
I turned in tried to bite a
hold of them. By that time,

653
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:01.199
he pulled up and both came up
swaying, and I wasn't laughing at the

654
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:06.880
time, but I was pretty fucking
pissed. But but uh, you know,

655
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.800
it's like one of those things,
like I said, with but just

656
00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:14.199
about anybody and everybody. I love
all the boys, and uh, you

657
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:19.639
know, it was so funny with
me. We had to do a uh

658
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:23.559
a sit down with Bitschoff and I
walked in and I never even knew,

659
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:29.400
but I said when he was doing
it, because I didn't feel it that

660
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:35.440
all these scrapes were coming across my
eyes, I knew it, so uh

661
00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:38.360
of course later on I did,
and I had a little what do you

662
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:42.840
call him, uh scamps When I
walked through the door, Scotty goes,

663
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:46.599
you know, looks so bad.
And then we sat down, we talked

664
00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:52.400
it out and that was done.
You know, there's uh to me there's

665
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.159
no reason holding any of that ship. You know, guys fite all the

666
00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:59.119
time. You know, it's uh, it is what it is. It's

667
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:01.639
like getting a lion attacking you.
So he said, ben Steiner went down

668
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:07.320
on him and he likes the boys
in the back. Well yeah, uh

669
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:15.119
you know, hey, you know, I'm glad he can be himself.

670
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:20.360
So that's the that's the skirmish.
That's Page's recollection. And apparently they're on

671
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:22.719
they're they're on fine terms by the
time Greed came around. But this is

672
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.360
definitely an interesting backdrop now as to
what Scott Steiner said about Kimberly, well

673
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:32.440
like terms. But you know what, no one can find Scott Steiner for

674
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.719
anything fine him, No, no, no, it's perfectly okay to do

675
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:40.960
what he did. Basically is you
pick a fight and then when someone stands

676
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:45.400
up to you, you fight them
and uh, you know, apparently try

677
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:49.039
to rip their eyes out of their
face. And it's fine. That the

678
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:52.039
the basic headline is it's fine.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't

679
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:55.760
see a problem. I can tell
you're sitting there waiting for the problem,

680
00:49:55.840 --> 00:50:00.159
and it just it wasn't happening.
You do what you gotta do right.

681
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:06.239
So, as mentioned, Kimberly was
becoming something of an entity onto herself,

682
00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:08.719
which you know, different sides of
people come out when they start to feel

683
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:13.559
like they might just be the stars
they always thought they should be, you

684
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:17.159
know, that syndrome. And Steiner
was not impressed. He did not hold

685
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:22.280
the Nitro girls in high regard,
in particular because he was no stranger to

686
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.760
the Atlanta strip club circuit. Okay, right, that has a lot to

687
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:30.639
do with it. And here's Steiner, what's that he knows okay, right,

688
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:32.320
he knows the whole scene. He
knows what you'd be doing if you

689
00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:39.960
weren't dancing before the commercial break,
and and so, uh, don't say

690
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:45.760
it, so he uh. Scott
Stunner also talked to Devin Nicholson of Hannibal

691
00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:49.880
about this fight, and here's his
side of it, and in it he

692
00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:53.960
talks about the Kimberly element to it
all. Well, it was just simple.

693
00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:58.079
It was like she was a Nitel
girl. She thought she was like

694
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:00.239
she thought she was a big part
of the show the South. He was

695
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:04.800
a big star. You know.
She actually said that she thought, you

696
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:09.119
know, she actually thought girls were
you know, a big party show.

697
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:15.719
You I was like fucking kid,
you know. And I never had a

698
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:21.719
problem telling them the truth, but
now I had Actually after I left them

699
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:27.840
doing that promo, it's like,
uh, you know, you go backstage

700
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:31.719
and it's all dark because I had
to go from there right to the interview

701
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:36.239
set. I had an interview set
with them, because I had I had

702
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.199
an interview go through the dark tunnel, go to inter you set with me

703
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:45.360
and Gene Oakland and me me buffing, uh lex you know, I saw,

704
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:50.880
and then so I go through that
and I'm going through the dark tunnel.

705
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:55.599
He's he said something to me,
you know, and you know,

706
00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:59.519
I just double like him, and
it was you know, when you go

707
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.760
punch him this and uh, security
was on the hit what he had done.

708
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.039
He had told the security was going
to do it, and he said

709
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:09.559
if anything happens, to jump on
them, you know. So before I

710
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:15.920
even got a chance of punching me. So were you, I mean the

711
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.199
security guys were you know, I
mean they were older at the time,

712
00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:22.519
and then they weren't that fast,
you know. I mean I took him

713
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:25.679
down like that was gonna rare it
back to the punch him in the face.

714
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.119
They had grabbed my arm, so
you know they were there, you

715
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:31.679
know, well, I was gonna
rip his ile, you know, but

716
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:38.599
they grab that too, you know, so uh but you know times of

717
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:44.559
bishoff, they smoothed it out,
you know. Amazing. So he admits

718
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:46.039
he was gonna rip his eye out, and that's nice. He admits that,

719
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:51.440
And I love that. I love
the detail of like Page told security

720
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:53.159
he was going to do it,
so the page had back up if he

721
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:57.440
attacked. I was like, why
is he telling this long story about how

722
00:52:57.519 --> 00:52:59.599
like it was dark in the tunnels
and everything, like, oh okay,

723
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:01.079
so we could make it seem like
Paige snuck up on them almost, you

724
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:05.679
know, right, that's the wrestler
in brain working there where it's like,

725
00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:07.440
I know, I don't triumph at
the end of this story necessarily, so

726
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:12.320
let me lay the foundation along the
way for like, if this wasn't the

727
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:14.719
case, I would have fucking killed
them, you know, Yeah, exactly

728
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:20.800
got to do it. Steiner was
even more straightforward relative to his feelings about

729
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.800
the Nitro girls and some of the
women in the locker room that he took

730
00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:27.519
great offense to pretending to be part
of the show. What's ironic there is

731
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.880
most of the Nitro girls didn't want
to wrestle, didn't want to be valets,

732
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:34.159
didn't want to be anything other than
you know, the Nitro cheerleaders,

733
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:37.000
which was fine, and Kimberly,
with a dancing background, was kind of

734
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:40.000
put in charge of the Nitro girls
and the routines they would do. But

735
00:53:40.039 --> 00:53:44.400
it was Rince Russo who came in
and had some big hang up with the

736
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.599
fact that these women were getting paid
to be on the show but weren't participating

737
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:52.079
in angles and storylines, probably because
he, you know, considered you know,

738
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:57.239
scantily clad attractive women as an absolute
cornerstone of his ability to draw ratings,

739
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:59.800
and it's hard to look at women
that you think you can use in

740
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:01.559
that way and not be able to
use them that way. So he pretty

741
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:05.039
much laid down a rule that,
you know, if you're not training to

742
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.239
be able to know how to wrestle
or participate in in ring angles, your

743
00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:13.320
time at WCW isn't very long.
So really, you know, here's Steiner

744
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:15.599
sort of blaming them. And you
know, of course they had control over

745
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:20.360
how much of an ego they developed
from that point, but here Steiner sort

746
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.119
of blaming them for pretending to be
part of the show, when in reality,

747
00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:28.639
no one asked really to be part
of the show beyond signing up to

748
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:32.679
be a dancer. But again,
it's Scott's knowledge of where these Nitro girls

749
00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:36.519
were sourced from, and not all
of them, but enough of them that

750
00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:42.840
it came to characterize the group that
I think really underlies his his animosity towards

751
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.679
them. Here he is in an
RF video shoot interview talking about the Nitro

752
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:52.440
Girls and therefore kind of his his
animus towards Kimberly and others. Do you

753
00:54:52.440 --> 00:55:00.280
remember the promoly you put it on
Kimberly Page? Yeah? What inspired that?

754
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:07.840
Oh, she's she's messed up?
Yeah. I think we had a

755
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:14.360
conversation about she thought, you know, women were drawing or something like that,

756
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:21.039
you know, drawing. Yeah,
they you allegedly harassed some of the

757
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:25.119
nitroen girls. Oh, they were
used a bunch of a bunch of tramps

758
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:30.400
man in Atlanta. I never harassed
any of them, you know, I

759
00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:34.679
didn't give him the time of the
day. You know. It's like one

760
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:38.679
was a cool corps and they were
just they were messed up girls, man,

761
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:43.440
the strippers, you know what I
mean. Kimberley Page tried to strip

762
00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:46.360
and she was so bad that they
fired her. You know, I mean,

763
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:50.400
that's don at Scott's truth. You
know, it was like because I

764
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:52.239
know guys that were manager at the
strip with at that time. You know,

765
00:55:53.039 --> 00:56:00.679
so you ever visit that Gold Club? Yeah, get traded? Well

766
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:15.920
there there Landis. You know that's
a good town. Yeah, let's let's

767
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.960
let's put it this way. Scott
had the Jimmy applied more than once,

768
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:24.400
not with his own two hands,
in some of Atlanta's final establishments. You

769
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:38.039
imagine him bubbling over. Oh my
god, yes, god. So yeah,

770
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:42.480
and what's your point. Listen,
listen, I'm not saying anything to

771
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.280
like make fun or say it's wrong. I'm saying that's what happened. You

772
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:49.840
know, whatever cool got. You
know, look, we all, we

773
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:54.239
all, we all need a hobby. It's amazing that this this this Michigan

774
00:56:54.280 --> 00:57:00.360
boy gets all like gassed up and
like becomes this wrestling power free can move

775
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:05.360
to Atlanta and just tears ass through
the strip clubs, tars ass through them.

776
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:07.800
I mean, can you listen.
You look at the size of him,

777
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:13.239
I know, I don't you look
at those fucking just those those arms

778
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:19.320
are completely wrong. All right,
he just tears into all those strippers all

779
00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:22.760
right, like, and the thing
is, he tears into them at the

780
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:25.800
strip club because nobody's gonna you think
one of those, you think one of

781
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:28.960
the fucking body, you know,
one of the one of the bouncers there

782
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:34.440
is gonna do ship. He'll fucking
ripping their eye out, fucking He'll he'll

783
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:37.840
throw his fist into their eye socket, all right and lift them up and

784
00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:44.719
then like throw them through a wall. Nobody's touching him except the strippers,

785
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:49.039
except the strippers. It's pretty tremendous. Actually, it's always you know,

786
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:52.920
it's there's a reason that Marissaitome is
a stripper and the wrestler, Yes,

787
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:55.679
because there's no two more peas in
a pod in this world than a pro

788
00:57:55.719 --> 00:58:00.159
wrestler and a stripper. Of course
they live the exact same eistence. They're

789
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:07.039
all working each other, yes,
And so that's just tremendous stuff. Steiner

790
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:10.159
there laying it down, and he
didn't mince words either in that same interview

791
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:15.199
that he did that shoot about DDP. And you know, as conciliatory as

792
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:19.159
Page was, and some of the
sound we heard towards Scott Steiner, at

793
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:22.320
least upon being asked initially. And
this is still that golden era of shoots

794
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:24.800
where guys were actually honest, you
know, and there wasn't a whole bunch

795
00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:29.480
of shit that happened since WCW clothes
that made them feel warmly towards them that

796
00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:34.679
they still hold the grudges and nostalgia
isn't there yet, So everyone's an asshole,

797
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:37.559
you know. He's the good old
days. Yeah, well it's the

798
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:42.119
honest old days. Yes, you
know. I'm developing this sort of like

799
00:58:42.199 --> 00:58:45.199
mission statement ten years in. You
know here at TLF we're not celebrity fuckers.

800
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:49.159
We're truth fuckers. That's right,
Okay, that's what we seek to

801
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:52.880
fuck. And so here's Scott on
DDP and why he was where he was

802
00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:58.239
in WCW. DDP and Aaron Bischof
were knowing to be good friends. You

803
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:00.320
think he got pushed too much because
of the friendship. That's the only reason

804
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:05.000
I got pushed, Joe. That's
the way he was treated up when WW

805
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:08.239
went out there too. You know. So from a fellow wrestler, you

806
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:14.119
didn't you didn't see the talent and
GDP that maybe he deserved to be where

807
00:59:14.119 --> 00:59:16.280
he was. I'm telling you.
That's the only reason I got pushed.

808
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:22.519
What do you think your talent?
Yeah, he had a little bit of

809
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:24.119
talent, but he had guys help
with him too. You know. Of

810
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:29.440
course you don't understand whereas you know, a big machine behind you, you

811
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:32.199
can it's a lot easier to get
over, you know. But everybody knows

812
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:36.480
that's why you got pushed, you
know. I mean, it's not like,

813
00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:38.119
why do you think I'm telling you
guys something? You guys don't know.

814
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:43.320
Everybody, I mean, he makes
them like nod to it, he

815
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:46.920
makes them acknowledge his point yep Scott
Scott Tyre big you know guy, calm,

816
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:50.719
like you know at the end of
everything, absolutely you know, you

817
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:52.800
know, you know, you know, you know, like obviously like it's

818
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:57.000
it's basically what he's saying, is
you all know this. That's a key

819
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:00.440
to Yeah, key rhetorical device,
is it not? Yes? I love

820
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:16.000
it so much. He's lapsed fan
wrestling podcast with Jack and Jpisaro's a lapsed

821
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:21.920
fan wrestling podcast. So he keeps
going trailer park trash. He keeps saying

822
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:25.440
trash, called you trash, you
white trash. That's his big thing.

823
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:29.320
Meanwhile, everyone in WCW most of
the towns. They run and looking at

824
01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:31.679
each other like, am I supposed
to be against white trash? Right?

825
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:37.760
Right? I feel attacked like yeah, yeah, right, that's all good.

826
01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:39.320
We are what's probably well, I
guess. I guess it does work

827
01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:44.440
because he is he is impugning DDP
for being white trash. But that's supposed

828
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:47.239
to babyface him that he is in
fact white trash, I guess. But

829
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:51.519
he was leaning into that heavily.
He was leaning into that white trash,

830
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:53.440
and he couldn't stop saying it.
In fact, the that's we'll get to

831
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:59.320
the next night on Nitro starts with
b roll of trailer parks, Oh my

832
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:02.599
god, as they replay Scott Steiner
beating ddp's asset greed. But here is

833
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:07.519
a promo that aired. I believe
in the Greed pre show as it were,

834
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:10.840
as Scott Steiner leans even more heavily
into the DDP as white trash rhetoric.

835
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:17.760
I eat the most sad hygiene?
What else Medesia? Yes, well

836
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:25.599
that from beer. Oh, he's
been seeing Paige's neighbors, very olderiferous Paige.

837
01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:29.960
He took a person when I caught
you what trash? But I hate

838
01:01:29.960 --> 01:01:34.320
all white trash. You say last
Man's Canada, not a chest You just

839
01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:37.760
laugh. See I've been leading you
here to greed tonight is you're a populace.

840
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:42.519
You're gonna be riding in the same
path. It's Spin Goldberg, sid

841
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:47.000
Vicious, Kevin Nash tonight, dead
man. How do you say it in

842
01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:53.960
Michiganese? Idiot? Some of it's
hard to pick up on, But okay,

843
01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:58.480
ask Medesia what are your pet peeves? And she says she tries to

844
01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:00.199
like say white trash by saying beer
guts and things. But I want to

845
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:05.480
I want you to listen to a
positively Mike Tyson moment here from Scott Steiner

846
01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:08.599
as he tries to use a very
very big word by the way you hate

847
01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:12.519
the most? I think he said, what do you hate the most?

848
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:16.599
But he likes he like stutters,
you know, sad hygiene? What else?

849
01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:23.079
Yeah, well, the gut from
beer, guts from beer. Now

850
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:27.800
you can say beer gut, can't
you instead of guts from beer. I

851
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:32.159
mean it's not a specific though.
Oh, he's been seeing pages neighbors,

852
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:38.639
some neighbors, neighbors what Scott I
think he says? Uh? What he

853
01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:44.159
actually said? There was you must
be you must be seeing pages neighbors.

854
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:51.519
Yes, clever, very older riffous. I stand, I rest my case

855
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:58.840
very odor riffous. That is like
you know, Mike Tyson using ostentatious and

856
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:02.280
stuff. He did he study the
dictionary in prison or something. Scott Steiner

857
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:06.400
must have just like you know,
there must have been. It must give

858
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:09.920
me a big word that I can
use. Very odorifous, very odorifous.

859
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.079
Okay, And as I said,
the next night, Nitro opens and this

860
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:16.960
is the second to last Nitro Ladies
and gentlemen. Wow, Gainesville, Florida.

861
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:24.079
They opened playing taps over a United
States flag and and w flag No.

862
01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:28.880
And it's sort of like dissolved over
footage of trailer parks. I don't

863
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.079
know where they went to shoot these
trailer parks, but they have just images

864
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:37.400
of trailer parks that they cut to
over the US flag. It's it's it's

865
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:39.800
it's concept art. I don't know
what they were going for here, why

866
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:44.079
they had to show the American flag
and taps. I mean, I know

867
01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:46.960
that he basically killed DDP in the
middle of the ring a greed and left

868
01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:50.840
him dead. You know, he
puts him in that recliner and DDP passes

869
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:54.199
out bloody. It's fucking strong,
but uh, but that's what they did

870
01:03:54.280 --> 01:04:00.920
and then uh And it was kind
of poetic because it connects what we've been

871
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:03.199
saying about Scott Steiner is one of
a kind promo style to of course,

872
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.400
the real heart of the matter here, which is the WCW's about to close,

873
01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:12.440
and stitching together those two narratives is
the trailer park footage. And Scott

874
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:16.239
Steiner himself comes out to open that
episode of Nitro, and you think it's

875
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:20.360
about Scott Steiner coming to brag about
what he had done last night and continuing

876
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:24.320
on in his storyline, but in
fact, then Tony Shavani says, this

877
01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:29.039
big pop up pop head of gold. Then what was one of them?

878
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:33.360
Are brutal matches you will ever see
for the WCW tunnel And here comes Bee

879
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:38.880
Heavy one chan of the world.
Well, come to Monday Night troul Fans.

880
01:04:39.039 --> 01:04:43.559
A very vary import announcement to begin
our telecast. Less than an hour

881
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:47.599
ago, we learn here to len
Engageville that at some point we will get

882
01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:53.840
a live call from Eric Bischow,
a live telephone call, and Eric has

883
01:04:53.920 --> 01:05:00.760
a huge announcement to make we can
only wonder at speculate exactly what this huge

884
01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:05.719
Do you remember what the huge announcement
is? I'm not buying ww Essentially,

885
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:10.760
yes, I'm sure we excerpted this
well, we did our final Nitro episode.

886
01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:14.320
Really recall, we'll bring it back
here for those who aren't aware,

887
01:05:14.360 --> 01:05:16.840
don't remember, But this is Eric
phoning in and basically saying, next week

888
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:20.360
is probably the last night of wrestling
on the Turner net a lot. Didn't

889
01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:25.679
he a live call? Is that
what Tony said He's going to give a

890
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:30.199
lot? We know something about that, damn right, we do. So

891
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:33.639
that's just wild. Like immediately it's
like wait, what, like, what

892
01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:35.840
do you mean, Eric Bishov's gonna
do it? What does that mean?

893
01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:42.800
And they start the screen the graphics
for Nitro say season finale, So Weird.

894
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:45.880
They start to refer to next week's
Nitro from Panama City, Florida,

895
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:48.119
which happened to be the big spring
break Nitro where they'd go to that outdoor

896
01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:55.159
sort of college club setting with a
pool and everything, as the season finale

897
01:05:55.280 --> 01:06:00.559
of So Weird of Monday Nitro.
So here's a bit more from the Alvre's

898
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:02.960
book. His co author, By
the way, Ardie Reynolds. Thanks to

899
01:06:02.960 --> 01:06:08.159
Brian for joining us on our companion
pod to the Vice series. TLF tackles

900
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:12.760
Who Killed WCW, and he characterizes
kind of where Bischoff was at at this

901
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:15.320
point in time. This way,
Bischoff therefore came up with what he thought

902
01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:17.639
was an ingenious storyline. He'd have
Steiner, still the top heel and heavyweight

903
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:20.559
champion, take out all the remaining
baby faces one by one, leaving only

904
01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:24.960
Dallas page that headlined the March etings
pay per view in Jacksonville, and then

905
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.559
the following night, the new WCW
owners would be revealed and saved the day

906
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:35.199
by bringing all the baby faces back
at once. So Alvarez saying here that

907
01:06:35.559 --> 01:06:42.639
originally before the overwhelming story became We're
not actually going to fuse it, isn't

908
01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:45.639
actually going to buy WSW and the
future Resilian's certain not going to fart a

909
01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:49.280
WWF's purchasing it. Yet that might
not have actually been fully in motion quite

910
01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:54.440
yet. That this was to be
a nitro where Bischoff comes out and brings

911
01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:57.920
out all the owners, which is
crazy. It brings out all the wrestlers

912
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:00.840
again. The new ww owners be
Revie and then all the baby faces would

913
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:04.920
come back. That's crazy to think
about. I don't really know what that's

914
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:09.719
about. There's a bit of color
that I think might support this. That's

915
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:13.400
to come later as we revisit some
of the court documents we pulled for our

916
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:15.960
Bash at the Beach two thousand episode, Because remember, do you remember why

917
01:07:16.039 --> 01:07:20.559
greed Boss came up in all of
Hulk Cogan's drama from back then? Do

918
01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:25.320
you recall this at all? I
don't recall. Do you remember that Hulk

919
01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:30.719
Hogan was issued two million plus dollar
checks, yes, for pay per views

920
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:34.679
in two thousand and one that he
never appeared on. I remember that vaguely.

921
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:41.880
And the big legal threat as WCW
was circling the drain was basically offering

922
01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:46.440
Hogan a spot on Greed if you
ask a cynic like me, so that

923
01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:48.679
he would say, no, I'm
not showing up, so they wouldn't have

924
01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:54.239
to pay him because they did want
to. They owed him for pay per

925
01:07:54.320 --> 01:07:57.480
views in two thousand. They didn't
want to book those million plus dollar expenses

926
01:07:57.519 --> 01:07:59.920
on the two thousand books to keep
the books looking good. This is all

927
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:02.719
from Brad Siegel's testimony, which we'll
get to. So they pushed those payments

928
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:06.000
off into twenty oh one, and
then had apparently the genius idea of instead

929
01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:10.199
of just delaying when we pay those
checks, why don't we invite Hult to

930
01:08:10.199 --> 01:08:12.480
pay per views. We know he's
not going to show up on that,

931
01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:15.079
he's not going to want to do, so that we have a reason to

932
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:17.680
withhold the money. They didn't actually
end up doing that, but they send

933
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.119
them and send him the checks,
and he cashed them without working at all

934
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:24.359
for them. Of course, you're
damn right, I'm listening. Those checks

935
01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:28.399
came in and he already had the
fucking car on to go to the bank.

936
01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:31.680
Absolutely, But I think that's intriguing
that there was actually some creative for

937
01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:36.279
what the Nitro after Greed would have
been had not been for this twist in

938
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:39.800
the road on the WCW sal And
the reason I bring that up in this

939
01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:44.239
context is part of what's testified as
Johnny Ace talks about how they actually did

940
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:46.880
draw up a creative plan if Hogan
did agree to do greed and it would

941
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:50.279
involve motorcycles, it would involve him
and a lot of motorcycles, and Eric

942
01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:54.840
Bischoff showing up. I mean,
he did do greed, I know exactly.

943
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:57.520
I mean, it's way too much
that the last pay per view was

944
01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.319
called greed. To me, it's
too poetic. I mean, the serendipity

945
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:04.119
starts there and it ends with in
the midst of this ww series on vice

946
01:09:04.159 --> 01:09:09.159
and all we're talking about, you
randomly pulled greed out of the fucking hat.

947
01:09:09.319 --> 01:09:12.800
Totally random. I mean, I
was speechless, as the end of

948
01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:15.640
the last episode indicates, I could
not believe what you'd said and what it

949
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:20.840
meant that we had to do.
Yes so again. The book reads they'd

950
01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:24.600
headlined the March eighteenth payer view in
Jacksonville. In the following night, the

951
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:28.119
new WCW owners would be revealed and
saved the day by bringing all the baby

952
01:09:28.119 --> 01:09:30.399
faces back at once. WCW would
then scrapped the April pay per views that

953
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:33.800
they'd have seven weeks to build up
their biggest show ever on May sixth,

954
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:38.199
when the entire company would be reborn. That is the big bang show we've

955
01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:42.880
talked about. In late February,
Bischoff reconsidered his ingenious idea. Alvarez writes

956
01:09:43.199 --> 01:09:45.920
the ratings were sinking fast, and
he didn't think they'd be able to hold

957
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:50.399
off until May before reintroducing the major
stars. Bischoff hates this suggestion when it

958
01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:54.479
was brought up on the podcast he
did about this pay per view with Conrad.

959
01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:58.399
The idea that Booker sort of was
pushed back in even though he was

960
01:09:58.399 --> 01:10:00.840
supposed to be one of those big
stars that returned all at once, pushed

961
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:04.079
back in prematurely because this idea of
like icing the top names, what do

962
01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:10.239
you know was costing them significant ratings
points to the point that it was it

963
01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:14.079
was like not bringing in the advertising
revenue expected against those numbers. That that's

964
01:10:14.119 --> 01:10:15.720
kind of how it was characterized in
The Observer in other places at the time.

965
01:10:16.039 --> 01:10:23.760
Bischoff pushes back on that doesn't really
countenance the idea that the freeze or

966
01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:27.239
the delay or the shutdown would have
heard anything, which I think is kind

967
01:10:27.239 --> 01:10:31.279
of wild, Like you think you're
gonna go off TV for seven weeks and

968
01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:34.399
like not do those ratings, and
they're gonna put a movie on there,

969
01:10:34.439 --> 01:10:38.159
and then on the other end,
they're going to be happy as a clam

970
01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:43.000
to just have you back. Like, yeah, that's it's really weird because

971
01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:45.000
he says, like, you know, they could put movies on there that

972
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:49.199
would do equal amount of ratings to
WCW with higher CPMs for the for the

973
01:10:49.239 --> 01:10:51.720
commercial time. You know, the
people would pay more to advertise against a

974
01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:56.039
movie than wrestling, And it's like, yeah, so why would they have

975
01:10:56.119 --> 01:10:59.199
you back then? I know,
you know what I mean. Doesn't that

976
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:00.880
just sort of beg theques question.
Doesn't that sort of put you where you

977
01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:03.359
need to be in terms of their
mentality? If let's get the fuck out

978
01:11:03.399 --> 01:11:08.319
of this thing. I never saw
that, but I know why he would

979
01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:11.239
want to do that big reset to
really take the time to make this show

980
01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:13.159
massive. But you just can't do
it. You just can't afford to do

981
01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:16.359
it. You have to find a
way to keep producing programming while having sort

982
01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:19.760
of like a separate part of your
brain working on that long term plan.

983
01:11:20.359 --> 01:11:23.279
You have to be able to do
both. You have to chew gum and

984
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.279
walk at the same time. But
the fact of the matter is, while

985
01:11:26.319 --> 01:11:30.479
the deal was announced in January,
the purchase agreement had been reached, the

986
01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:32.800
ink was not dry in this final
contract. They way prematurely announced it.

987
01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:35.159
They announced it and we talked about
this in the final night Er episode,

988
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:39.640
basically coincident with the announcement of the
A well Time Warner merger. It was

989
01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:44.399
like, we have to get something
out about the future of WCW because this

990
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:46.359
announcement of this merger is going to
create all kinds of uncertainty about what it

991
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:49.800
means for WCW. But if we
can dangle these still come to find out

992
01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:55.199
relatively premature discussions we're having with this
acquirer, including Brad Siegel going on the

993
01:11:55.199 --> 01:11:59.279
conference call and talk about how excited
he is that come on, Brad,

994
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.479
you've looked into his eyes. Boss
on the Vice series, We've taken the

995
01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:06.840
measure of the man so happy,
he so fucking hates it. And it's

996
01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:10.560
so funny going back to our Bash
to the Beach two thousand show, taking

997
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:13.560
guesses as to what his voice sounds
like, having heard that he'd were Yankees

998
01:12:13.600 --> 01:12:15.279
captive meetings, so we assume he's
like, you know, one of these,

999
01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:18.439
like he sounds like Kubby Broccoli.
Yeah, right, exactly. Now

1000
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:21.039
he's a New Yorker that went to
LA and trying to start talking like this,

1001
01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:26.680
Well, well he's he's a New
Yorker because he moved to New York.

1002
01:12:27.319 --> 01:12:30.000
Oh okay, I didn't know that
even better. Yeah, yeah,

1003
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.520
he was Yeah, you know it's
says Eric, like Eric, Yeah,

1004
01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:35.800
well, he's a guy who came
in he you know, I'm sure I

1005
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:39.319
don't know if he's I know,
you don't know. This is I don't

1006
01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:43.279
know, archtyping all day. But
he's he's one of those people who like,

1007
01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:46.399
you know, who lived who you
know, who lived other places,

1008
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:50.479
but knew he needed to go to
some place like New York, you know,

1009
01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:56.640
and so he got there and from
then on the moment he moved there,

1010
01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:00.119
he started calling himself a New Yorker. Oh my, that's what he

1011
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.079
did. Yeah, he has he
knows the best bagel place, et cetera.

1012
01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:05.520
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, it's always you know, you

1013
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:10.439
know, he's like notes from all
the people that he's ever met on places

1014
01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:15.279
that aren't touristy bagel places. Not
touristy places you go, but this is

1015
01:13:15.279 --> 01:13:19.199
where the cool people who know New
York go. Oh God help us.

1016
01:13:19.279 --> 01:13:24.560
That's him, all right. He's
got a whole fucking rolodex of fucking and

1017
01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:29.520
it's like this like triple gentrified area
that he thinks is like authentic. But

1018
01:13:29.800 --> 01:13:31.640
oh yeah, like thirty years ago
it didn't look anything like that. Yeah,

1019
01:13:31.880 --> 01:13:36.800
absolutely, absolutely tremendous. So there, no, Brad, that's what

1020
01:13:36.920 --> 01:13:41.479
you get. Damn right. I
had to take that detour. But it's

1021
01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:44.359
so funny to hear you do his
voice reading transcripts and stuff like, you

1022
01:13:44.399 --> 01:13:49.000
know whatever. You know, he's
more like an Eric. You know,

1023
01:13:49.159 --> 01:13:53.279
we thought at the time that no, no, I do don't understand what

1024
01:13:53.399 --> 01:13:58.000
the hell was going on. My
people were into this just wrestling shit,

1025
01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.600
you know, it's just it's just
a bunch of bullshit. Remember when DDP

1026
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:05.000
said in the cameo that nobody knew
showing up to Greed, that nobody kne

1027
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:10.319
until the showed up to the final
nightro what was happening. Yeah, uh,

1028
01:14:10.840 --> 01:14:13.880
maybe Kevin Nash knew, you'd damn
right, he knew. Maybe Kevin

1029
01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:18.159
Nash told QUEEWI, huh fucking talking
to Qui, I said, you know

1030
01:14:19.800 --> 01:14:28.079
shit's going down? Yeah, fucking
final pay per view quote. You know

1031
01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:33.920
Vince is buying the company. H
fucking heartbreak called me and told me quee

1032
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:38.319
Wee real name Alan Funk, who
is in the opening match against Jason Jett

1033
01:14:38.319 --> 01:14:41.319
on this pay per view and impromptu
laid addition to the show. Did he

1034
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:44.359
go ahead? Is he a go
ahead? Kind of Funk. I don't

1035
01:14:44.399 --> 01:14:45.760
know. He's one of the few
other funks I've ever heard of in pro

1036
01:14:45.800 --> 01:14:50.720
wrestling that is not related to the
West Texas tribe. So here he is

1037
01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:59.720
speaking to Hannibal about getting into the
business, and well that's the interviews about

1038
01:14:59.720 --> 01:15:01.399
that. But he gets to this
night, he gets to Greed and what

1039
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:08.960
do you know, Alan Funk is
hearing that WWF has bought WCW way before

1040
01:15:09.199 --> 01:15:12.840
people claim to have known about it, and he hears it from none other

1041
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:15.399
than Big Sex. Say, listen
in. You know, Eric Bischoff used

1042
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:18.319
to call me in his office,
which was unheard of for the power playing

1043
01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:21.800
guys because uh Jad Eagle, which
was a lawyer for the office. She

1044
01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:27.560
used to come to the Logger and
say, Alan, mister Bischoff'd like to

1045
01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:29.840
see in his office, and I'd
be like, you know, why,

1046
01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:31.600
what's he wanted to see me in
his office for? So he called me

1047
01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:33.800
his office and he always put me
over and he said I was doing a

1048
01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:36.239
great job and he was going to
give me a big push, and he

1049
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:39.800
actually told me I was going to
be his next superstar man. He goes,

1050
01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:42.079
I got big, big, big
stuff playing for you. Man,

1051
01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:44.479
he said, I got lots of
money coming your way. You know I'm

1052
01:15:44.479 --> 01:15:45.479
gonna put you over huge. I
love you, you know, I love

1053
01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:48.359
your work ethic. You always keep
your body in check. And he said,

1054
01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:53.079
you're gonna be one of my next
big guys. And until the day

1055
01:15:53.399 --> 01:15:56.039
that they came in and took it
out from under him, that that's the

1056
01:15:56.039 --> 01:15:58.960
way it was going. And I
was real excited about the future for WCW

1057
01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:02.119
up to that point. And the
last loop, which I didn't know was

1058
01:16:02.119 --> 01:16:06.439
going to be the last loop.
I'm with one of the office guys,

1059
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:12.119
Ross Forman. It actually works for
impact still. I used to travel with

1060
01:16:12.199 --> 01:16:16.439
him because WCW never paid for the
power plants. Guys rented cars or nothing.

1061
01:16:16.439 --> 01:16:18.720
So he used to alter his travel
a little bit so I could jump

1062
01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:20.840
in the car with him. That
way, I didn't have to pay for

1063
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:24.479
a car in a hotel. He
always took care of me that way.

1064
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:27.880
So I was traveling with him,
and me and him were both good friends

1065
01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:30.439
with Kevin Nash. So we're down. We go to spring training games down

1066
01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:33.920
in Florida. Before the matches on
Sunday night, it was the Greed pay

1067
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:38.199
per view. The last paper VIEWWCW
ever had in Jacksonville, Florida. So

1068
01:16:38.239 --> 01:16:42.000
we're driving to the arena, Nash
calls or actually I'm sorry. It was

1069
01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:45.079
the night before the pay per view. Nash called us and he says,

1070
01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:49.079
hey, man, he said,
Vince just but WCW. And the first

1071
01:16:49.159 --> 01:16:54.960
thing I thought of was Vince Rusloe
because he was there with Aeron Minschoff.

1072
01:16:55.279 --> 01:16:58.800
Then he's like, no, Vince
McMahon. And I was like, now,

1073
01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:02.039
wait a minute, what happened to
this deal where Eric Bischoff I already

1074
01:17:02.039 --> 01:17:06.319
thought had the company, like he
already acquired the company and the money people

1075
01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:10.920
had, they were running it for
the last couple of months. So it

1076
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:14.640
really floored me. And I'm like, how the held events by the company

1077
01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:17.039
that don't even sound right when Bishop's
been running stuff for the last two months.

1078
01:17:17.479 --> 01:17:19.600
And uh, He's like yeah,
bro. So I said, well,

1079
01:17:19.640 --> 01:17:21.359
what is it? What do you
think that means for me in my

1080
01:17:21.399 --> 01:17:24.119
contract? He goes, well,
as far as I know, they're going

1081
01:17:24.159 --> 01:17:27.800
to pick your contract up, but
I don't know what's gonna happen. So

1082
01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:30.880
sure enough, we get to the
pay per view and at this point,

1083
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:33.039
nobody was talking about this, and
I didn't want to bring it up because

1084
01:17:33.079 --> 01:17:36.039
I don't think anybody knew at the
pay per view what was going on.

1085
01:17:36.159 --> 01:17:40.079
Maybe some of the top guys did, and nobody was saying nothing. But

1086
01:17:40.199 --> 01:17:43.199
I asked Ross, I was like, nobody's talking about this shit, Like

1087
01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:45.439
what? I didn't know what was
going on, And you know, I'm

1088
01:17:45.439 --> 01:17:46.640
still kind of a young guy,
so I didn't want to start nothing to

1089
01:17:46.640 --> 01:17:50.199
get heat, so I didn't say
nothing about it. And uh so then

1090
01:17:50.239 --> 01:17:54.600
we show up after the payview,
me and Jason Jett. I wasn't even

1091
01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:56.920
supposed to be on the pay review, but they booked me to a match

1092
01:17:56.920 --> 01:18:00.479
with Jason Jett easy Money, and
we were the curtain jerker. We tore

1093
01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:02.560
the house down, had a fifteen
minute match that was one of my favorite

1094
01:18:02.560 --> 01:18:06.880
matches in WCW. And so then
after the match, you know, everybody's

1095
01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:10.399
putting it over and then we go
to the reena of the next night.

1096
01:18:11.960 --> 01:18:15.520
I'll be damned if we didn't see
WWE trucks and walk in there, I

1097
01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:17.720
see Shaman Man, Pat Patterson and
Jerry Briskow and all these guys, and

1098
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:21.199
I'm thinking, and it was a
real weird mood. Nobody was really talking

1099
01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:26.119
everybody's just walking around like looking like
fuck, they bought the company, Like

1100
01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:29.000
what the fuck's gonna happen? You
know, So nobody really wanted to talk

1101
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:30.399
about it. So he's a little
off there, and that. Of course,

1102
01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:34.159
the Nitro Afrogreed was not the last
one. There was one before that

1103
01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:36.640
that we just talked about. We
just played the sound from it. But

1104
01:18:38.359 --> 01:18:42.560
he's very specific about Greed being that
when he found out. So yeah,

1105
01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:45.359
I'm goin with him on that.
I don't think he'd mistake like Nitro or

1106
01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:49.560
thunder taping for Greed. So I
don't know fold that into your idea of

1107
01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:54.960
who knew what when I suppose,
but very clearly something is in motion.

1108
01:18:55.520 --> 01:18:59.000
Brad Siegl had dropped a memo that
we'll read here in just a moment before

1109
01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.960
Greed that really should have told people
what they needed to know about the state

1110
01:19:01.960 --> 01:19:10.479
of the deal. You know,
Bischoff was working to to facilitate a television

1111
01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:14.640
slot after it was clear that TBS
and T and T were off the table.

1112
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:17.439
He tried, He took a bunch
of meetings. He was pretty close

1113
01:19:17.479 --> 01:19:20.079
with FX. It sounds like,
you know the cable channel FX. Of

1114
01:19:20.119 --> 01:19:24.399
course, sure, I knew somebody
over there by the name of Peter Logorio

1115
01:19:24.439 --> 01:19:28.239
was like a connection he had,
and there was some optimism that he could

1116
01:19:28.359 --> 01:19:31.319
shift at the last minute and find
a new television home for the deal and

1117
01:19:31.399 --> 01:19:34.560
keep the deal alive. But it
was pretty clear that that was not going

1118
01:19:34.600 --> 01:19:36.880
to happen, that he wasn't going
to get the buy in that he was

1119
01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:43.479
looking for. Tony Shavanni, by
the way, while Alan Funk remembers precisely

1120
01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:45.560
agreed as the night he found this
out and the awkwardness of having to walk

1121
01:19:45.600 --> 01:19:48.600
around like he didn't know anything about
it, Tony Shavanni, on the hand,

1122
01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:55.039
who called the paper view, doesn't
even remember being there. It's as

1123
01:19:55.079 --> 01:19:58.640
tony as it gets on what happened. When podcast with Conrad, he talked

1124
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:02.600
about remembering not only you know,
not remembering Greed so much, but remembering

1125
01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:08.640
that Nitro the next night, where
it was clear that the future of the

1126
01:20:08.680 --> 01:20:13.680
company was again in a deep,
deep state of questioning. And Shavanni,

1127
01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:17.399
who others have accused of hoarding information, you know, like if he knows

1128
01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:19.600
something, he doesn't want anybody else
to know what he knows, and he

1129
01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:24.760
considers information power. I think that
was one of Bobby Heenan's knocks on him,

1130
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:27.920
like there's things that he thought Shavanni
should have told him, that he

1131
01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:30.399
knew about where he stood, that
he withheld, and he played a lot

1132
01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:33.760
of those games. So keep that
context in mind as he tells the story

1133
01:20:34.039 --> 01:20:39.600
about how he conducted himself. Tony
Shavanni, that is the night after agreed

1134
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:44.119
on this fateful Nitro, the second
to last episode, the penultimate one from

1135
01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:47.279
Gainesville, Florida. But you were
there, So what did you think when

1136
01:20:47.319 --> 01:20:50.399
he watched it back this week?
You know what I thought. When I

1137
01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:55.039
watched it back this week. I
thought the same thing you thought. I

1138
01:20:55.079 --> 01:21:00.479
thought. I don't remember seeing this
fucking show Greed he called it. I

1139
01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:06.720
don't I, and I guess it's
I and I know why I don't remember

1140
01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:13.399
seeing the show. My was so
preoccupied with the end of WCW, finding

1141
01:21:13.439 --> 01:21:19.239
another job and trying to stay on
my feet, that I was so preoccupied

1142
01:21:19.279 --> 01:21:25.520
with that that whatever booking was going
on and whatever angle was going on didn't

1143
01:21:25.520 --> 01:21:29.720
matter to me at that time.
Now I don't listening to the commentary.

1144
01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:33.000
I don't think my commentary showed that. I think I pretty much sounded like

1145
01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:36.159
Scott and I sounded like we were
really into the event, but I really

1146
01:21:36.319 --> 01:21:40.960
was not. I that was not
the focus of what was going on in

1147
01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:45.319
my life that time. So I'm
going to tell you that I don't remember

1148
01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:49.239
that event. I have no recollection
of it. Here's the only thing I

1149
01:21:49.279 --> 01:21:55.680
remember. I remember going to Gainsvild, Florida the next day for Nitro and

1150
01:21:55.720 --> 01:21:58.840
being so distraught about the end of
the company and what's going to happen to

1151
01:21:58.920 --> 01:22:03.840
the company that instead of hanging out
in the locker room with the uh,

1152
01:22:03.880 --> 01:22:08.680
with the Scott and the announcers and
everybody else, I stayed in my rental

1153
01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:12.680
car in the parking lot. Is
this real? Yep? Stayed in the

1154
01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:16.439
rental car in the parking lot.
It was March, it was Florida,

1155
01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:20.039
uh, and so it wasn't too
hot, and I stayed in there the

1156
01:22:20.199 --> 01:22:23.960
entire time. And I think it
rained, if I remember, so the

1157
01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:26.920
windows fogged up so no one could
see me, and I just sat in

1158
01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:33.640
there and it kind of slept thoughts. Well, Hey, you know,

1159
01:22:33.800 --> 01:22:39.800
I'm not surprised, and I'm actually
pretty thrilled that this is what he remembers

1160
01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:45.039
of it. He Uh, you
know, a cynic might say that he

1161
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:47.279
didn't want to see anybody that night
because he knew something and didn't want to

1162
01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:51.800
answer questions true what might be?
You know, because as he admits there,

1163
01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:55.159
his mind is solely on what his
next move is going to be.

1164
01:22:56.920 --> 01:23:00.880
But so making himself rare perhaps is
something that it wasn't against type for Tony,

1165
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:03.760
but just I love I love him
sleeping in his car before the second

1166
01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:06.640
to last Nightro's fucking amazing, So
he doesn't have to deal with anybody,

1167
01:23:06.720 --> 01:23:11.720
just tremendous exactly what it should be? What might he have known? What

1168
01:23:11.800 --> 01:23:14.359
might he have known as in the
offing and didn't want to be grilled about

1169
01:23:14.439 --> 01:23:18.199
If you follow that line of logic, perhaps it was what Eric Bischoff ultimately

1170
01:23:18.239 --> 01:23:21.840
says on the broadcast as Tony opens
that nitro. He says, just about

1171
01:23:21.880 --> 01:23:27.600
an hour ago we found out about
this and and what it is that Eric

1172
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:30.039
is about to do, or the
fact that Eric is going to call in

1173
01:23:30.079 --> 01:23:33.720
with an announcement and to hear famously
is what Eric had to say. I've

1174
01:23:33.720 --> 01:23:40.600
scraped the mic your standard flam.
I told you I talked to the man,

1175
01:23:40.960 --> 01:23:54.880
and that man is Eric Bischof.
So set up and listen thank you,

1176
01:23:54.920 --> 01:23:59.840
brog for those of you in there
you watching around the country this evening.

1177
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:03.680
I very much would chosen to be
there tonight in person if I could

1178
01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:06.960
be, but given everything that's going
on tonight, that's just not possible.

1179
01:24:08.920 --> 01:24:12.399
Many of you may know that for
the past six months I've been working with

1180
01:24:12.439 --> 01:24:16.159
a group of people whose goal it
was it is to acquire World Championship Wrestling

1181
01:24:16.399 --> 01:24:23.239
and to grow it once again to
become a competitive, dominant wrestling organization worldwide.

1182
01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:28.720
But recently we've hit a couple roadblocks
that may be in fact brick walls,

1183
01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:33.399
and while it is still in my
power, I want to do something

1184
01:24:33.479 --> 01:24:40.039
befitting of what could be very well
the last night of wrestling on the Turner

1185
01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:45.199
Networks. Given the fact that wrestling
has been such an important part of Turner's

1186
01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:49.359
history over the past twenty nine years, I've been thinking over the weekend of

1187
01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:56.960
what I could do to provide as
exciting of a program that this historic event

1188
01:24:57.079 --> 01:25:00.359
should be. To that end,
I want to make an announ now that

1189
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:04.359
next Monday Night in Panama City is
indeed going to be a night of champions

1190
01:25:05.079 --> 01:25:10.800
By that, I mean every championship
will be up for grabs starting with the

1191
01:25:10.840 --> 01:25:17.720
World Cruiserweight Championship, the Cruiserweight Tag
Team Championships, the World Tag Team Championships,

1192
01:25:18.359 --> 01:25:23.479
the US title, and the World
Heavyweight Title will also be up for

1193
01:25:23.600 --> 01:25:30.239
grabs next Monday Night in Panama City, and Scott Steiner Booker t I want

1194
01:25:30.279 --> 01:25:34.399
you to be aware now that your
match is going to be a title versus

1195
01:25:34.520 --> 01:25:43.800
title match. The contracts are prepared. A WCW representative is standing by to

1196
01:25:43.880 --> 01:25:47.920
make sure that the contracts are executed
and lead them carefully sign them. Be

1197
01:25:48.039 --> 01:25:54.560
prepared to defend your titles next Monday
Night. And also, giving the historic

1198
01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:58.560
nature of this occasion and my relationship
with this company for nearly ten years,

1199
01:25:59.119 --> 01:26:03.319
I want to personally extends an open
invitation to any former and I mean any

1200
01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:11.159
former World Heavyweight Champion in WCW to
join us in Panama City, and don't

1201
01:26:11.159 --> 01:26:16.960
be afraid to bring your boots with
you. Lastly, Rick Flair, you

1202
01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:20.640
and I have had a very rocky
relationship over the past ten years, and

1203
01:26:20.680 --> 01:26:25.640
while I have a tremendous amount of
respect for you and what you've done in

1204
01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:31.039
wrestling history and what you've done for
WCW for so long, now I want

1205
01:26:31.039 --> 01:26:35.560
to make sure that in your case, a promise made is a promise kept,

1206
01:26:38.119 --> 01:26:44.439
and Rick Flair, it is in
your best interest this evening to kiss

1207
01:26:44.600 --> 01:26:50.359
Dusty Rhodes ass that being said,
I'll see you all in Panama City next

1208
01:26:50.399 --> 01:26:57.920
Monday, night to night you champions, thank you. He's pretty good at

1209
01:26:57.920 --> 01:27:00.960
that, by the way, Beschoff. Yeah, very cleanly read and done.

1210
01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:02.960
You know, you think, like
a phone call promo is going to

1211
01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.039
be such a disaster, but it
works. Everyone's hanging on as every word,

1212
01:27:06.159 --> 01:27:10.840
and I'll give him credit for that. But it's it's well when you

1213
01:27:10.880 --> 01:27:15.800
really think about how close, you
know, how close everything was, and

1214
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:23.079
how yeah, you know, for
I don't know how to describe it except

1215
01:27:23.079 --> 01:27:29.239
that it's like, you know,
everything's really still on the edge at that

1216
01:27:29.359 --> 01:27:30.800
point. Yeah, And he doesn't
close the door. He says, you

1217
01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:33.640
know, maybe a brick wall.
He doesn't say it is a brick wall.

1218
01:27:34.039 --> 01:27:38.840
There probably are one or two phone
calls he's waiting to be returned that

1219
01:27:38.920 --> 01:27:42.119
might change the whole, you know, trajectory of the deal. Right.

1220
01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:46.600
But but what he's referring to is
is pretty clear. What cast the pall

1221
01:27:46.680 --> 01:27:50.159
is pretty clear. I'm not sure
how many people in the WCW locker room

1222
01:27:50.199 --> 01:27:54.319
read the New York Times. I'm
sure it was exactly zero, but they

1223
01:27:54.319 --> 01:27:59.039
were ready on Monday to publish the
following story, which meant at least by

1224
01:27:59.079 --> 01:28:04.960
Sunday, the Night of Greed,
these details were becoming known and reportable by

1225
01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:09.439
The New York Times and other news
outlets as well touched on it. The

1226
01:28:09.479 --> 01:28:12.920
next day this hit the papers.
If you can read this to the Solar

1227
01:28:12.920 --> 01:28:15.840
system, I'm sure we've read it
before the very day that Eric Bischoff delivered

1228
01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:21.279
that telephone address on Monday nightro take
it away. The Turner Broadcasting System,

1229
01:28:21.319 --> 01:28:27.640
a division of AOL Time Warner,
will stop showing professional wrestling on its TNT

1230
01:28:27.760 --> 01:28:31.600
and TBS cable channels later this month. The company set on Friday Friday.

1231
01:28:31.920 --> 01:28:40.239
Friday Friday, and the date is
March nineteenth, two thousand and one.

1232
01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:44.840
That's when the article was published.
Friday would have been Yeah, would have

1233
01:28:44.840 --> 01:28:50.359
been the eighteenth, seven sixteenth March
sixteenth. The cancellation of wrestling marked the

1234
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:55.880
end of an era at Turner Broadcasting, the cable franchise built by Ted Turner

1235
01:28:55.960 --> 01:29:00.880
in part on the strength of professional
wrestling. Mister Turner now the vice chairman

1236
01:29:00.880 --> 01:29:06.119
of AOL Time. Warner began showing
matches of the World Championship Wrestling League on

1237
01:29:06.199 --> 01:29:12.199
his first television station, WTCGTV in
Atlanta in the early nineteen seventies. He

1238
01:29:12.319 --> 01:29:16.720
later used brought Wrestling to attract viewers
to TBS and TNT, but the league

1239
01:29:16.760 --> 01:29:20.399
has fallen on hard times. Though
it was at one point the dominant wrestling

1240
01:29:20.399 --> 01:29:25.319
franchise on television, in the last
couple of years, it has consistently lost

1241
01:29:25.359 --> 01:29:30.319
in the ratings to the word Wrestling
Entertainment, which was first on USA Networking

1242
01:29:30.439 --> 01:29:35.319
later on TNN and MTV. With
high production costs and expensive contracts for wrestlers,

1243
01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:41.199
World Championship Wrestling is estimated to have
lost tens of millions of dollars.

1244
01:29:41.680 --> 01:29:45.840
Turner Broadcasting said in January that it
would sell its controlling interest in the league

1245
01:29:46.000 --> 01:29:51.279
to Fusion Media Ventures, a fledgling
media cunt concern, but that it would

1246
01:29:51.319 --> 01:29:57.439
continue to show wrestling on TNT and
TBS for years to come. Everything changed

1247
01:29:57.439 --> 01:30:01.439
two weeks ago when Jamie Kilner,
the the chief executive WB Network, became

1248
01:30:01.479 --> 01:30:06.920
the head of TBS executives at AOL
Time. Warner said the executive said mister

1249
01:30:08.039 --> 01:30:12.800
Kellner. In consultation with the president
of Turner Entertainment, Brad Siegel, had

1250
01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:17.560
decided that wrestling should be canceled sooner
rather than later. So whenever you bring

1251
01:30:17.680 --> 01:30:20.520
up Jamie Kellner, bring up Brad
Siegel on the same breath. If you

1252
01:30:20.560 --> 01:30:26.479
believe this article, it was the
first programming move made under mystery, first

1253
01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:31.239
programming move made low hanging fruit,
I think is what they call it.

1254
01:30:32.840 --> 01:30:38.159
A listen. First of all,
you know, I'm pleased as punch.

1255
01:30:38.239 --> 01:30:43.239
This is my first day here at
the Turner Networks. I'm so happy to

1256
01:30:43.279 --> 01:30:47.640
be here. And you know,
I think the first decision that must be

1257
01:30:47.640 --> 01:30:53.319
made in mister Siegel. You please
correct me if I'm wrong. Oh,

1258
01:30:53.399 --> 01:30:55.960
I will, Jamie, that's not
a problem. I get that. I

1259
01:30:56.039 --> 01:30:57.760
know that, I know. But
let me tell you this. The first

1260
01:30:57.800 --> 01:31:00.880
thing we're gonna do, that first
thing that I'm gonna do here at Turner

1261
01:31:03.039 --> 01:31:08.199
is to get rid of that bullshit
Professional wrestling WW is done. And then

1262
01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:15.199
everyone reacts like when Leo DiCaprio says, I'm not leaving fuck wrestling. That's

1263
01:31:15.239 --> 01:31:20.439
right, I said it, fuck
wrestling. Telling the fuck out are wrestling?

1264
01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:28.119
You know, fuck out here.
It's it's not staying. It's not

1265
01:31:28.239 --> 01:31:35.720
staying. It's not fucking staying.
It was the first programming move made by

1266
01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:42.720
Michigan. Uh TVs spokesman Jim Weis
said, basically, we decided that my

1267
01:31:42.840 --> 01:31:46.880
Jim professional Wrestling in his current incarnation
is not consistent with the upscale brands we

1268
01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:53.840
built. Therefore, we will not
be carrying it. Mister Kellner had no

1269
01:31:54.000 --> 01:32:03.319
comment except fuck wrestling, You're fucking
don fuck h BI. Gotcha? Oh

1270
01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:10.560
so, I guess Kellner was the
monster everyone says he was. Though TBS

1271
01:32:10.560 --> 01:32:14.319
and T and T are consistently among
the top rat agent cable networks, the

1272
01:32:14.359 --> 01:32:20.279
two networks have been criticized by analysts
for lacking a clear identity. Both networks

1273
01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:24.720
off for a mix of reruns and
popular network television shows, movies, and

1274
01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:30.880
sports, though TNT has also ventured
into original programming. TBS shows a two

1275
01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:35.520
hour WCW program Thunder on Wednesday nights. TNT shows a two hour program Nitro

1276
01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:43.520
on Monday nights. With the cancelation, the deal with Fusion is also off,

1277
01:32:43.840 --> 01:32:47.159
Thank You a Well. Executives said
there was a chance that Fusions could

1278
01:32:47.199 --> 01:32:51.239
still boy a league and show its
programming on a network owned by another media

1279
01:32:51.279 --> 01:32:59.920
company, but they said other bidders
have shown interest as well. There was

1280
01:33:00.039 --> 01:33:04.079
speculation on Friday that the World Wrestling
Entertainment would buy its rival, but a

1281
01:33:04.279 --> 01:33:11.159
WWE spokesperson had no comment. There
is in black and white right there,

1282
01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:16.960
the published rumor about WWF buying WCW. Such. They had to have been

1283
01:33:16.960 --> 01:33:20.840
ready on Sunday because the paper,
you know, was being put to bed

1284
01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:26.199
on Sunday night. So yeah,
it was. It was known way before

1285
01:33:26.319 --> 01:33:29.079
that final nitro that WWF was buying, and I know, going into that

1286
01:33:29.159 --> 01:33:30.399
night people did know. It's not
like it wasn't on the internet that WWF

1287
01:33:30.439 --> 01:33:32.880
was going to buy it. I
mean that was, but but people act

1288
01:33:32.960 --> 01:33:35.640
like, you know, they found
out the Monday morning of that nitro in

1289
01:33:35.640 --> 01:33:40.039
Panama City, when it was very
clearly being talked about. You want to

1290
01:33:40.039 --> 01:33:42.920
go back to November of two thousand, you can where Vince is doing an

1291
01:33:42.920 --> 01:33:45.600
interview within the Pro Wrestling Torch talking
about we wanted to buy it, but

1292
01:33:45.760 --> 01:33:49.119
TNN won't let us put WCW on
because they have exclusivity on wrestling and they

1293
01:33:49.159 --> 01:33:53.680
don't you know, in wrestling company
we own can't be at another cable station

1294
01:33:53.760 --> 01:33:56.920
there for T and T and TBS, you know, don't don't jibe with

1295
01:33:56.960 --> 01:33:59.640
the nature of our agreement. Ultimately, after buying WW, of course they

1296
01:33:59.640 --> 01:34:01.279
were going to give it a TNN
Saturday night timeslot, which used to be

1297
01:34:01.319 --> 01:34:05.920
like Confidential Velocity that time slot.
Yeah, and that didn't end up happening

1298
01:34:05.960 --> 01:34:11.479
either. At the same time as
that article, also Broadcasting and Cable ran

1299
01:34:11.560 --> 01:34:14.159
this item looks like Jamie Kellner is
going to have a little more to clean

1300
01:34:14.239 --> 01:34:16.920
up at Turner Broadcasting than expected.
The a well Time Warner subsidiaries deal to

1301
01:34:16.920 --> 01:34:21.319
sell it's ailing World Championship Wrestling operation
is in a chokehold with buyer Fusant Media

1302
01:34:21.359 --> 01:34:25.279
Ventures, looking for a way out
of the ring. Fusian, which is

1303
01:34:25.319 --> 01:34:29.560
controlled by Classic Sports Network founders and
sellers Brian Paddall and Steve Greenberg and their

1304
01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:32.319
partners, is finding the financial condition
of the WW circuit too much to bear.

1305
01:34:33.479 --> 01:34:36.760
The WW lost about eighty million dollars
last year, and TBS was trying

1306
01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:41.279
to dump the operation to tidy up
before AOL closed on its takeover of Time

1307
01:34:41.279 --> 01:34:45.199
Warner. An industry executive, so
the deal might be revived like a wrestler

1308
01:34:45.199 --> 01:34:48.920
perking up after a folding chair beating
to win the match. That was unnecessary.

1309
01:34:49.640 --> 01:34:53.479
Okay, who wrote this? All
right? John, calm down,

1310
01:34:53.760 --> 01:34:57.439
Okay, put the pen down and
just report the facts. Please, Well,

1311
01:34:57.880 --> 01:35:00.960
do you favor do some alliteration instead? Yeah, that's what this piece

1312
01:35:00.039 --> 01:35:03.319
is missing. What Wrestling Federation Entertainment
has expressed interest in the past and might

1313
01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:06.239
be lured back. There you go. But one thing is definite. The

1314
01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:11.239
WCW is coming off the air.
Though not commenting on the status of Effusiante

1315
01:35:11.279 --> 01:35:15.960
Deal, a TBS spokesman acknowledge that
the TNTSWW Nitro and TBS superstation ww Thunder

1316
01:35:15.079 --> 01:35:18.640
have been canceled and will no longer
appear after March twenty six. Even though

1317
01:35:18.640 --> 01:35:24.079
wrestling attracts the young viewers that so
please newly anticipated pardon me, newly appointed

1318
01:35:24.079 --> 01:35:28.600
at TBS CEO Kellner, previously chairman
of the WB network. Youth isn't everything,

1319
01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:30.600
the spokesman said, The programming,
no quote, no longer matches the

1320
01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:36.279
high income demographic, no longer A
lot more poor people are watching John,

1321
01:35:36.359 --> 01:35:40.560
and that's a problem. You know, you know, we've been thinking about

1322
01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:42.840
it, and we just don't think
we can afford the poor people, right,

1323
01:35:43.279 --> 01:35:49.520
they're not going to buy a F
one fifty and TBS sure well probably

1324
01:35:49.600 --> 01:35:54.039
yeah, not the high end,
not the oh sure the expensive one.

1325
01:35:54.159 --> 01:35:58.079
TBS and T and T are targeting
translation, He writes, there's no guaranteed

1326
01:35:58.119 --> 01:36:00.920
TV exposure for any buyer. Buyer
could cut a deal with another TV network,

1327
01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:04.520
such as USA Network, which lost
the WWF top rated Jose Divie comes

1328
01:36:04.600 --> 01:36:08.760
TNN. I think it's been said, and I don't think it's been disputed

1329
01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:12.479
that Bischoff approached USA but was in
the deepest discussions of the effects. What

1330
01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:15.479
a fucking world that would be,
boss, if Nitro went to USA,

1331
01:36:15.199 --> 01:36:18.319
that would have been crazy. He
considered that. I mean they run TNN

1332
01:36:19.239 --> 01:36:25.760
raw was That's absurd when you think
about it. I do want to take

1333
01:36:25.760 --> 01:36:30.640
a pause and just consider like the
way Bischoff handled the telephone he used for

1334
01:36:30.720 --> 01:36:35.279
that that collin, Like I do, I'm very deeply intrigued by like the

1335
01:36:35.359 --> 01:36:39.960
squeeze on the receiver. You know, it's like one of those Cisco phones

1336
01:36:40.039 --> 01:36:43.399
where like, yes, the mouth
the mouth area of the phone isn't a

1337
01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:45.079
circle, it's like a almost like
a little square, you know what.

1338
01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:48.319
I mean yeah, and he can
like hold it with like just two fingers.

1339
01:36:48.800 --> 01:36:51.800
Yes, absolutely, So what's this? How do you envision? So?

1340
01:36:51.920 --> 01:36:55.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so
this is right. It's patched through

1341
01:36:56.000 --> 01:37:00.640
by the way, is okay.
First of all, he's he's he's not,

1342
01:37:00.840 --> 01:37:04.720
you know, I think. First
of all, he's in Wyoming.

1343
01:37:09.399 --> 01:37:13.479
Number one. He's in Wyoming.
Okay, he's in his home office.

1344
01:37:13.520 --> 01:37:16.680
So this is a landline the landline
absolutely landline service out there. That's why

1345
01:37:16.720 --> 01:37:21.399
he moved there exactly, so he
fade people's phone calls. He's in his

1346
01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:27.920
he's in his his home office.
Okay. He's wearing a he's wearing a

1347
01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:30.279
black button down shirt that's like open
almost all the way down to his fucking

1348
01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:34.239
belly button. Okay, he's got
his he's got his glasses on down to

1349
01:37:34.279 --> 01:37:39.880
his nose. He's wearing jeans,
shirt tucked in, and he's got some

1350
01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:46.119
kind of boot on. Feet up
on the desk. White hair, white

1351
01:37:46.159 --> 01:37:54.640
hair, feet up on the desk. All right. He's got one one

1352
01:37:54.800 --> 01:38:01.199
lamp on it, okay. One. You can see the taxidermy like bic

1353
01:38:01.279 --> 01:38:05.560
in head on, but like you
know, it's like it's where it is

1354
01:38:05.560 --> 01:38:11.279
is. It creates an incredible amount
of shadows. It's like the Lincoln Memorial.

1355
01:38:11.560 --> 01:38:15.600
Yeah, it's as warm as you
can possibly imagine. All right,

1356
01:38:15.920 --> 01:38:18.119
it's on this fine march evening,
yes, you know, and it's like,

1357
01:38:18.199 --> 01:38:23.960
you know, there's there's well uh
uh uh what do you call it?

1358
01:38:26.560 --> 01:38:29.520
God, what do you call it? When you you you put it

1359
01:38:29.560 --> 01:38:32.279
on on on wood. It's not
paint. That's the other thing. I

1360
01:38:32.319 --> 01:38:39.640
don't know, like not varnish.
But it's yes, it's just yes exactly,

1361
01:38:39.720 --> 01:38:45.439
there's like, you know, there's
stained wood as much stained dark red.

1362
01:38:46.600 --> 01:38:50.680
Okay, all right, he's got
a glass of red wine on the

1363
01:38:50.800 --> 01:38:57.960
desk. All right. Not exactly
the panicked visual I had in my head,

1364
01:38:58.279 --> 01:39:01.560
not at all, fan of at
all. He's calm as a cucumber.

1365
01:39:01.560 --> 01:39:04.760
It's like a Cisco desk phone.
Like it's like a four hundred,

1366
01:39:05.680 --> 01:39:09.680
right right, and you know it's
got like a million he could he has

1367
01:39:09.720 --> 01:39:12.520
like a million lines in his phone
for his one fucking house, like as

1368
01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:15.399
if he's gonna, you know,
as if he's gonna fucking have like a

1369
01:39:15.399 --> 01:39:18.720
million phone calls. And we had
to call like the production truck. I

1370
01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:21.479
guess, like he had to call
somebody and they had to hold on Eric

1371
01:39:21.560 --> 01:39:26.880
stand By. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's what he says. Yeah,

1372
01:39:26.920 --> 01:39:30.159
yeah, yeah, yeah, a
right, weights he's holding. You

1373
01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:32.399
know, it's one of those ones
too that it uh, you know,

1374
01:39:32.600 --> 01:39:38.159
it gets thinner as it gets down
to the to the voice, you know,

1375
01:39:38.279 --> 01:39:42.159
so it's like it's got kind of
that that thin angle that goes right

1376
01:39:42.199 --> 01:39:45.199
in. So he's holding holding it, he's holding it with only his his

1377
01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:57.600
thumb and his pointer finger and it's
resting on his middle finger, and it's

1378
01:39:57.600 --> 01:40:00.199
got one of those twisty cords,
yeah, exactly. And as he's doing

1379
01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:03.840
it, he's just he's just going
back and forth in his chair like you

1380
01:40:03.880 --> 01:40:08.399
know, left and right, like
using his you know, he's just like

1381
01:40:08.680 --> 01:40:13.479
as he's talking the whole fucking time, and he's talking across the trends to

1382
01:40:13.560 --> 01:40:16.560
a national television audience, yes,
exactly, being piped into the speakers in

1383
01:40:16.600 --> 01:40:20.680
this arena, and and over on
the other side of the house on the

1384
01:40:20.760 --> 01:40:26.560
deck, he has just put a
piece of venison on the grill that he

1385
01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:30.319
shot that morning. All right.
There is a piece of venison on the

1386
01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:35.720
grill on the deck, all right, and he is he took time out

1387
01:40:35.720 --> 01:40:41.600
of his out of his out of
his grilling schedule, place to place a

1388
01:40:41.640 --> 01:40:45.279
call, to place a call WW
to the fans, I don't want them

1389
01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:49.199
know what was going to happen.
Yeah, the best thing you could do

1390
01:40:49.560 --> 01:40:53.720
with a call is place it,
as far as I'm concerned, exactly.

1391
01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:57.319
Of course, it was a perfect
call. Call you're placing a call.

1392
01:40:57.560 --> 01:41:02.399
It was a perfect call. It
was percent perfect call. So that's in

1393
01:41:02.439 --> 01:41:04.560
the New York Times. So I
don't know where all the mystery comes from.

1394
01:41:04.920 --> 01:41:06.800
Yeah, right now, I know
why Tony's in his car. He's

1395
01:41:08.039 --> 01:41:12.479
reading the Times exactly, play fucking
It's not only reading the Time. He

1396
01:41:12.520 --> 01:41:16.239
probably had a bottle of Jack daniels
next film too depressed. So uh,

1397
01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:19.239
you know what was going through the
mind of Brian Badal, one of the

1398
01:41:19.239 --> 01:41:24.600
two principles at Fusian Media Ventures.
He later talked to WW documentarians as they

1399
01:41:24.600 --> 01:41:29.039
put together an episode of their series
Untold on the Final Nitro and provided some

1400
01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:30.600
color. I'm pretty sure we shared
most of this in the final Nitro episode,

1401
01:41:30.640 --> 01:41:34.000
but worthor'th surfacing here Just to remind
folks that it's not like we never

1402
01:41:34.039 --> 01:41:39.760
heard from these people that looked at
w stub being pulled out One important detail

1403
01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:42.800
there in one of the articles,
the Broadcasting and Cable one, was that

1404
01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:45.239
they basically framed it is apparently Fusian
was out there trying to get the idea

1405
01:41:45.279 --> 01:41:48.439
out there that we took a closer
look at the books and said fuck this,

1406
01:41:48.720 --> 01:41:53.239
as opposed to you know, we
had our trump card pulled. Now,

1407
01:41:53.319 --> 01:41:55.439
that's not what Brian Baddall is about
to say in these two pieces of

1408
01:41:55.479 --> 01:41:58.520
sound from the ww doc. But
I found that line in that Broadcasting and

1409
01:41:58.560 --> 01:42:00.760
Cable article really interesting, This idea
that the more they looked at it,

1410
01:42:00.840 --> 01:42:04.760
the less interested they were of So
who's to say, even if Jimmy Kellner

1411
01:42:04.760 --> 01:42:08.600
didn't pull the TV, if they
still would have gotten cold feet. Because

1412
01:42:08.640 --> 01:42:12.199
Bridal gets into a fair amount of
detail here about how sort of restrictive the

1413
01:42:12.840 --> 01:42:15.680
contract was from the perspective of the
TBS and T and T side, and

1414
01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:18.279
maybe it never would have worked,
maybe they never would have fully agreed to

1415
01:42:18.319 --> 01:42:21.399
what it was that fusing it saw
is the real value in the deal.

1416
01:42:21.680 --> 01:42:25.880
One of the things it's not talked
about enough is that the investment being Warburg

1417
01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:29.880
Pinkus, which had helped Brian maddaland
Steve Greenberg put together the money to finance

1418
01:42:29.920 --> 01:42:32.920
their big achievement in cable television.
The Classic Sports Network was also involved in

1419
01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:35.920
the front end in financing this WCW
deal. In fact, it seemed to

1420
01:42:35.920 --> 01:42:40.880
be the main source of revenue for
the deal. And it's been reported and

1421
01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:45.920
published that Warburg Pinkus eventually got a
good look at the books and said,

1422
01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:49.880
na, in the due diligence phase, you know, thought this isn't really

1423
01:42:50.000 --> 01:42:55.039
something we want to get into.
Let's not forget ww's being sued for racial

1424
01:42:55.039 --> 01:42:59.640
discrimination in a complaint that was ultimately
settled. There was a plenty of lawsuits,

1425
01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:01.600
I mends of lawsuits. We all
know the game of you know,

1426
01:43:01.640 --> 01:43:05.319
sue Turner because they'd rather settle than
fight you on a small claim, So

1427
01:43:05.800 --> 01:43:09.760
get your money and leave. That
was the game forever. So there's all

1428
01:43:09.760 --> 01:43:14.039
these lawsuits associated with WCW. There's
you know, huge financial losses, perhaps

1429
01:43:14.079 --> 01:43:16.880
even deeper financial commitments in terms of
cash out lays that they were owed to

1430
01:43:16.920 --> 01:43:20.520
talent and other kind of expenses that
maybe they didn't realize until they got their

1431
01:43:20.560 --> 01:43:24.920
hands on the actual books and did
the due diligence, and suddenly Warburg Pinkuses

1432
01:43:24.920 --> 01:43:27.760
out of the picture. So I
don't know. I think that there's a

1433
01:43:27.800 --> 01:43:31.079
case to be made that this Fusian
acquisition was falling apart pretty well before Jamie

1434
01:43:31.159 --> 01:43:36.399
Kellner issued the fatal blow. And
I'm not sure if Kellner didn't cancel TBS

1435
01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:39.680
and T and T that this ever
would have happened. That's not talked about

1436
01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:42.560
enough. But here's Brian Badald giving
what has been i think some of his

1437
01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:47.159
most detailed statements about this whole thing, to the ww Untold documentary. Turner

1438
01:43:47.319 --> 01:43:50.760
was desperate to get out of the
business. You know, whatever the number

1439
01:43:50.920 --> 01:43:57.319
was that we were paying, we
were getting in return a really big check

1440
01:43:57.439 --> 01:44:05.000
from from Turner to effect cover almost
all of the talent contracts. More importantly

1441
01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:13.039
was we had negotiated a ten year
agreement to control the Wednesday night slot on

1442
01:44:13.159 --> 01:44:19.199
TBS. So that's huge. Yeah
too. You know, to control a

1443
01:44:19.239 --> 01:44:27.560
primetime network, a primetime weekday slot
on a cable station for ten years,

1444
01:44:28.279 --> 01:44:32.399
whether it's WCW or not. That
Fusian Media Ventures has DIBs on that primetime

1445
01:44:32.479 --> 01:44:34.920
real estate, that's not going to
stand for very long. I don't care

1446
01:44:34.960 --> 01:44:38.640
if they finalize the deal, they
would look to get out of it because

1447
01:44:39.399 --> 01:44:43.880
you got to program that to the
hilt. You can't outsource the programming of

1448
01:44:43.880 --> 01:44:46.199
two hours of primetime every week like
that, especially at a network that they

1449
01:44:46.199 --> 01:44:50.880
were trying to rebrand is comedy centric
in TBS, you know, and while

1450
01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:56.840
WW certainly was comedy, almost none
of it was intentional. But that's interesting

1451
01:44:56.840 --> 01:44:59.640
that he's basically saying w Turner was
going to give us all the money it

1452
01:44:59.640 --> 01:45:02.560
took to out all the talent contracts. So it's like, are they really

1453
01:45:02.560 --> 01:45:08.239
buying WCW or is Turner paying them
and take it off their hands, right,

1454
01:45:08.359 --> 01:45:11.960
because the talent that's the biggest cost
center to me, I mean like

1455
01:45:12.039 --> 01:45:16.239
Goldberg's contract and the Hogan's contract.
So you know, I think what's interesting

1456
01:45:16.279 --> 01:45:20.800
there is they're buying out contracts,
and that tells you that whatever this WCW

1457
01:45:20.840 --> 01:45:25.439
would have been, it wasn't going
to be all of the top guys with

1458
01:45:25.520 --> 01:45:28.920
those sick Turner deals coming back.
They were going to buy out those deals,

1459
01:45:29.159 --> 01:45:31.720
just like Vince ultimately offered to do
for pennies on the dollar. But

1460
01:45:33.199 --> 01:45:35.960
yeah, so everyone would have started
with it with a fresh slate and an

1461
01:45:36.000 --> 01:45:41.680
open canvas in terms of what kind
of financial commitments they could secure from this

1462
01:45:41.720 --> 01:45:48.840
new WCW so Bidal providing that color. He also says the following about dealing

1463
01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:53.319
with Brad Siegel in these fateful final
days was sun Everything I thought that was

1464
01:45:53.359 --> 01:45:56.680
going to go on for the next
couple of years first just evaporated in the

1465
01:45:56.680 --> 01:46:00.119
said, and I was stunned.
The big gap was, you know,

1466
01:46:00.279 --> 01:46:06.439
owning this two hour Wednesday night slot
on TBS for ten years, and ultimately

1467
01:46:08.079 --> 01:46:11.680
that was a big part of what
killed the deal. You know, I

1468
01:46:11.960 --> 01:46:15.079
got a call one day, I
think it was from Brad basically saying great

1469
01:46:15.119 --> 01:46:17.800
news, you know, I think
it was Jamie Kelder, come in.

1470
01:46:18.319 --> 01:46:25.760
Jamie is approved the deal. Does
one slight tweak the Wednesday night slot.

1471
01:46:26.239 --> 01:46:30.000
Instead of being guaranteed for ten years, we you know, get a sixty

1472
01:46:30.119 --> 01:46:34.319
day out. That wasn't acceptable to
us. They made it clear that the

1473
01:46:34.960 --> 01:46:39.560
Wednesday night slot was off the table, and I think that we said,

1474
01:46:40.039 --> 01:46:42.960
you know, without that, we
just don't know how we can make the

1475
01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:46.079
deal work a sixty day out.
I told you, I told you they'd

1476
01:46:46.079 --> 01:46:48.439
want to slither out of it.
Yeah, And did I just hear that,

1477
01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:50.840
right, did Brian? But I'll
just say, Jamie Kellner was about

1478
01:46:50.880 --> 01:46:57.279
to approve the deal to sell WCW
difusione. Mister pull the plug day one,

1479
01:46:57.439 --> 01:47:00.560
mister there's no future for WW.
Mister ska goat for the end of

1480
01:47:00.680 --> 01:47:04.760
WCW was willing to finalize the deal. According to one of its architects,

1481
01:47:05.079 --> 01:47:09.800
Ooh, that's kind of interesting that
chew on Guy Evans and the Nitro book

1482
01:47:10.279 --> 01:47:13.600
actually got what. To my knowledge, besides, this first round of publicity

1483
01:47:13.640 --> 01:47:15.880
from twenty zero one is the only
time anyone's been able to interview Jimi Kelner

1484
01:47:15.880 --> 01:47:20.600
about WCW. And it's brief,
but it's telling, he writes. Kellner

1485
01:47:20.640 --> 01:47:26.600
outright disputes the perception that he killed
WSW and hated wrestling. Rather quote,

1486
01:47:26.640 --> 01:47:29.840
I grew up a fan of wrestling, Kellner said, and once tried to

1487
01:47:29.840 --> 01:47:32.840
make a deal with Vince McMahon at
a different network or Vince place to call

1488
01:47:32.880 --> 01:47:35.479
the Jamie. I just wonder,
you know, since they had the prior

1489
01:47:35.520 --> 01:47:47.560
relationship Jamie Keller's office. Mister Kellner, please, who's calling? He knows

1490
01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:55.640
what's your last name? He knows
who it is. Okay, stand by,

1491
01:47:55.680 --> 01:47:59.560
please, mister Kellner. It's a
mister. He knows who it is.

1492
01:48:03.800 --> 01:48:09.560
Patch them through. You can do
Kellner too. I'll do Kellner.

1493
01:48:10.079 --> 01:48:15.479
I'll tell my own voice. Hello, pal oh, Vince, how are

1494
01:48:15.520 --> 01:48:16.840
you? Let me? Let me
go hold up Wednesday? Let me close

1495
01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:24.920
this door. So what's going on? You tell me? Well, I've

1496
01:48:24.920 --> 01:48:28.680
got this piece of paper in front
of me that says I've got to uh

1497
01:48:29.479 --> 01:48:34.279
give away one of my one of
my primetime slots on a weeknight for ten

1498
01:48:34.359 --> 01:48:36.359
years. And I'm not sure I
like that part of the deal. And

1499
01:48:36.399 --> 01:48:42.039
I wondered if, if not liking
that part of the deal might be in

1500
01:48:42.079 --> 01:48:50.039
your interest. Let me tell you
something. Let me ask you a few

1501
01:48:50.119 --> 01:48:58.319
questions. If you don't mine sure. Now, are there any interested parties

1502
01:48:58.319 --> 01:49:02.680
into this this time? I believe
I'm talking to one. Yes, you

1503
01:49:02.720 --> 01:49:08.600
are. Now the question I have
really is, well, we're really interested

1504
01:49:08.600 --> 01:49:11.359
in this time slot? You know, as I look at the at the

1505
01:49:11.359 --> 01:49:15.199
broad suite of things that we could
offer the TBS viewer on a Wednesday night

1506
01:49:15.239 --> 01:49:16.800
in prime time, I have to
say we have many, many options that

1507
01:49:16.840 --> 01:49:21.039
I'm very interested in exercising. Let
me ask you this question, all right,

1508
01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:27.640
And this is really where it comes
down to. If I open up

1509
01:49:27.640 --> 01:49:34.119
these time slots for you, do
I kill Ted Turner. You could say

1510
01:49:34.159 --> 01:49:38.560
that no, no, no,
no no. He might be closer to

1511
01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:42.119
death as far as how he's lived, then you might think. I want

1512
01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:45.079
you to say it. I want
you to say right now, Vince,

1513
01:49:45.520 --> 01:49:49.399
you buy these time slots, you
buy what's on these time slus, you

1514
01:49:49.439 --> 01:49:56.439
open them up, and you kill
Ted Turner. Vince, you open up

1515
01:49:56.439 --> 01:50:05.439
these time slots and you will Ted
Turner. I did it, I did

1516
01:50:05.479 --> 01:50:09.239
it. Do we have a deal? That set of a bitch. Do

1517
01:50:09.359 --> 01:50:14.439
we have a deal? Well,
let me discuss it with the mcdevid first

1518
01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:17.800
and go over the you know,
the the the ins and outs of the

1519
01:50:17.800 --> 01:50:19.800
whole thing. And you know,
here's the thing. I don't do anything

1520
01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:25.520
on paper. I do it with
a handshake. Yeah, all right,

1521
01:50:26.479 --> 01:50:31.039
And I want this handshake to be
the death of Ted Turner. I just

1522
01:50:31.119 --> 01:50:35.640
want you to know, Vince,
that this hand right here stands ready to

1523
01:50:35.720 --> 01:50:41.960
go from shaking your hand to pressing
send on an email that announces we are

1524
01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:46.960
canceling wrestling on the Turner networks.
Heretofore, I think I think you would

1525
01:50:46.960 --> 01:50:51.119
be very wise. That's just send
them that email. I know we've tried

1526
01:50:51.159 --> 01:50:55.880
to make a deal in the past
pal, I will I just want to

1527
01:50:55.920 --> 01:51:01.199
say, and if it means anything
to you, and I'm not you know

1528
01:51:01.239 --> 01:51:09.039
this is not this is not a
a a if you will, a bribe

1529
01:51:09.079 --> 01:51:18.000
of sorts, but if it just
kind of sweetens your own sense of accomplishment,

1530
01:51:18.079 --> 01:51:23.399
right if it achieves the ends of
a bribe without somehow being called a

1531
01:51:23.439 --> 01:51:26.920
bribe, basically, if it's if, it's if, if what I give

1532
01:51:26.960 --> 01:51:30.640
you is a bribe, but it's
not done as a bribe. I like

1533
01:51:30.680 --> 01:51:39.279
you to give you not only a
financial reimbursement, but also access to any

1534
01:51:39.359 --> 01:51:45.199
number of our WB divas on a
on a sexual basis. I heard you've

1535
01:51:45.239 --> 01:51:48.920
made your daughter available on that basis
in the past, that you've even cut

1536
01:51:48.920 --> 01:51:51.560
a promo on you to that degree. If you want her, you have

1537
01:51:51.640 --> 01:51:57.079
her. Wow, that's straightforward.
It's fine by me. I have no

1538
01:51:58.079 --> 01:52:03.840
qualms about any sort of endeavor that
you know would eventually would would you know,

1539
01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:11.680
wouldn't actually cause us to be more
financially successful in our business? And

1540
01:52:11.720 --> 01:52:19.960
I believe in the bringing together,
the unifying of the entertainment business man.

1541
01:52:20.000 --> 01:52:23.920
Would that ever proved to be true
that he has no qualms about any endeavor

1542
01:52:30.359 --> 01:52:32.079
that that Bischoff phone call. You
know, the more I think about it,

1543
01:52:32.520 --> 01:52:35.840
that's the slot in the show that
was supposed to be him coming back

1544
01:52:35.880 --> 01:52:40.479
and announcing this new era. You
know, It's like there's a spot on

1545
01:52:40.479 --> 01:52:44.039
the show where he's supposed to come
out and you know, dressed down brick

1546
01:52:44.079 --> 01:52:45.840
flair, I guess. And I'm
just trying to figure out, like why

1547
01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:48.079
they would plug that into the show. Probably because they had a hole and

1548
01:52:48.159 --> 01:52:50.840
what they planned to do. His
Bischoff wasn't at the building because he was

1549
01:52:50.840 --> 01:52:56.760
putting out fires and you know,
building a fire to cook s'mores on,

1550
01:52:58.039 --> 01:53:00.800
and and so that that there,
it is. That's what we turned it

1551
01:53:00.800 --> 01:53:03.079
out. One of the things Meltzer's
always said is Stu Snyder, who was

1552
01:53:03.119 --> 01:53:06.239
CEO of WW at the time or
president whatever it was, was telling people

1553
01:53:06.439 --> 01:53:12.199
that there's no way Fusion gets the
company, even when all the reporting was

1554
01:53:12.199 --> 01:53:15.560
that the deal had been agreed to
in principle and that everybody was doing press

1555
01:53:15.560 --> 01:53:18.680
interviews and the such talking about the
deal in the new regime. That people

1556
01:53:18.720 --> 01:53:21.720
in Titan Towers were being told it's
absolutely not going to happen. Don't believe

1557
01:53:21.760 --> 01:53:25.359
it. And we know that Stu
Snyder had a connection with Siegel. They

1558
01:53:25.359 --> 01:53:28.640
worked together at Turner. They'd known
each other for years and years and years,

1559
01:53:29.159 --> 01:53:30.760
and post the sale, a lot
of people who were left in the

1560
01:53:30.800 --> 01:53:35.359
dust by the WCW closure were very, very not afraid to speculate. You

1561
01:53:35.520 --> 01:53:40.319
even heard DDP in the cameo there
couldn't help but go there as it regards

1562
01:53:40.399 --> 01:53:45.399
Jamie Kellner. Now, we heard
Brian Badal there on the documentary. Guy

1563
01:53:45.439 --> 01:53:47.840
Evans also spoke to him and wrote, according to Brian Badal, Kellner's hand

1564
01:53:47.880 --> 01:53:50.720
was forced by condition embedded in the
Fusian deal. It's part of its purchase

1565
01:53:50.760 --> 01:53:55.760
agreement Fusian it retained the right to
program Turner timeslot believed to be on the

1566
01:53:55.800 --> 01:54:00.039
TBS network, irrespective of ww's future
existence. We structured a deal that it

1567
01:54:00.079 --> 01:54:02.119
was great for us, but all
reveals but Jamie might have decided it wasn't

1568
01:54:02.119 --> 01:54:05.760
so good for Turner. We negotiated
into the deal certain rights to the timeslot

1569
01:54:05.800 --> 01:54:09.800
in case WCW was canceled. We
retained the right for a period of time

1570
01:54:09.840 --> 01:54:12.600
to continue to program the time slot. We looked at the time slot as

1571
01:54:12.600 --> 01:54:15.439
a valuable asset because if we were
going to pay all this money for the

1572
01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:17.079
property. We didn't want to take
on the risk of it being canceled.

1573
01:54:17.279 --> 01:54:20.119
Of course, Turner couldn't be in
the position where they had a valuable time

1574
01:54:20.159 --> 01:54:24.800
slot with a guarantee essentially never to
cancel the show in it. So my

1575
01:54:24.880 --> 01:54:27.920
recollection is that when Jamie came in, he looked at that as being something

1576
01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:31.319
they weren't willing to give us,
hardly pulling the plug on Wrestling Day one,

1577
01:54:31.399 --> 01:54:34.680
more like, I don't like this
deal. Point fuck wrestling, right,

1578
01:54:34.920 --> 01:54:39.680
yeah, right, can't forget that
first step, But I mean,

1579
01:54:40.000 --> 01:54:44.720
can you think of I invite you
to consider Thunder on FXH, my God

1580
01:54:45.840 --> 01:54:53.439
or Nitro on TBS. It's it's
something to chew on Evans, but sure

1581
01:54:54.319 --> 01:54:57.800
Evans rights if and for all intents
and purposes, it wasn't impossible if WCW

1582
01:54:57.880 --> 01:55:00.439
could still find a home on Fox, the fusing deal in some incarnation was

1583
01:55:00.640 --> 01:55:05.880
salvageable. He also spoke to Scott
Staffon, who was VP of Advertising for

1584
01:55:06.199 --> 01:55:10.920
TNT at the time of WCW's run, who had some interesting insights as to

1585
01:55:10.960 --> 01:55:14.560
how really dollars and cents had a
lot to do with why Jamie Kilner wouldn't

1586
01:55:14.560 --> 01:55:16.920
have seen a reason to keep wrestling
around, not some personal hatred or animosity

1587
01:55:16.920 --> 01:55:20.720
towards wrestling. Although it's clear that
Jamie Kellner did not like wrestling, I

1588
01:55:20.720 --> 01:55:25.159
don't think anybody he disputed it there
in the book, and he, you

1589
01:55:25.159 --> 01:55:27.640
know, in putting his name to
a quote, says that he actually,

1590
01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:30.199
you know, grew up watching it
and things like that. It's been said

1591
01:55:30.239 --> 01:55:33.239
like Jim Barnett, for example,
who knew everything told Meltzer likee. Jamie

1592
01:55:33.279 --> 01:55:36.680
Kellner hates wrestling like it was just
known. So I don't know. I'm

1593
01:55:36.680 --> 01:55:43.680
struggling with his characterization of his outlook
on wrestling. Someone who loved wrestling or

1594
01:55:43.720 --> 01:55:46.760
had an infinity for it would have
found another way to negotiate that term of

1595
01:55:46.800 --> 01:55:49.479
the deal instead of let that be
the reason it all comes crashing down.

1596
01:55:49.640 --> 01:55:51.960
Who agreed to that in the first
place? It must have been Brad Siegel.

1597
01:55:53.920 --> 01:55:56.920
You know, Brad, why are
you giving away two hours prime time

1598
01:55:56.960 --> 01:56:00.600
on one of the Turner networks?
Well, I don't what do you.

1599
01:56:02.000 --> 01:56:06.760
I don't recall whose decision that was. It must have been mine. I

1600
01:56:06.760 --> 01:56:11.319
mean, I don't recall deciding he
was there. I must have approved it,

1601
01:56:12.159 --> 01:56:14.760
you know, there are approvals that
go on. I don't recall recalling

1602
01:56:14.800 --> 01:56:20.600
either. There are decisions that are
made on a daily basis, and so

1603
01:56:20.760 --> 01:56:26.439
far everything checks out. There are
decisions that are made on a daily basis,

1604
01:56:27.960 --> 01:56:30.319
and you know, some decisions are
made by me, others by other

1605
01:56:30.359 --> 01:56:34.039
people, and you know, we
just we just kind of you know,

1606
01:56:34.079 --> 01:56:38.960
we cross bridges when they when they
when when they arrive. Thanks for that,

1607
01:56:39.439 --> 01:56:42.439
thanks Brad. So this is us, Scott Stephan had to say to

1608
01:56:42.720 --> 01:56:45.640
Guy Evans. Of course, what
they didn't realize is they weren't making money

1609
01:56:45.680 --> 01:56:48.279
hand over fist because no one wanted
to advertise. Those w CW ratings were

1610
01:56:48.279 --> 01:56:54.840
turning some of the talent into big
stars who then started negotiating for higher salaries.

1611
01:56:55.000 --> 01:56:58.279
The moment it became a star driven, production driven value, a driven

1612
01:56:58.319 --> 01:57:00.399
spectacle, the bigger the costs and
the smaller the margins, that is to

1613
01:57:00.399 --> 01:57:03.479
say profits. By the end,
it was just not going to be a

1614
01:57:03.479 --> 01:57:06.039
big business for Turner, so they
just shut it down. It was the

1615
01:57:06.119 --> 01:57:12.079
margins. Staff says that margins come
on killed it more than anything else.

1616
01:57:12.119 --> 01:57:15.319
I think, yes, and some
of the final analysis ss Kellner. According

1617
01:57:15.319 --> 01:57:19.119
to Guy Evan's book, it was
all numbers. It was all numbers.

1618
01:57:19.399 --> 01:57:25.359
It was numbers. It was really
financial offer Scott's saffon today. But here's

1619
01:57:25.359 --> 01:57:28.039
why WCW grew fast, and it
had a lot of rating success. But

1620
01:57:28.159 --> 01:57:30.920
rating success only matters if you can
monetize it. Turner's ad sales team had

1621
01:57:30.960 --> 01:57:34.119
a tough time monetizing those ratings.
They weren't aligned with anything else they were

1622
01:57:34.159 --> 01:57:40.239
selling from a content standpoint or a
demographic standpoint. Turner's premium sports sponsors didn't

1623
01:57:40.239 --> 01:57:43.760
want to be associated with it,
and Turner's entertainment advertisers didn't want to buy

1624
01:57:43.800 --> 01:57:46.800
it either, as the demographics weren't
in line with theirs. AD sales couldn't

1625
01:57:46.840 --> 01:57:50.239
package it with anything else at the
time, and that's been the knock on

1626
01:57:50.359 --> 01:57:54.760
WWF forever. Yeah, having WWF
makes you number one in cable, but

1627
01:57:54.880 --> 01:57:58.760
you just can't make that audience watch
anything else, right, you know,

1628
01:57:58.920 --> 01:58:02.399
part of the reason you pace out
of your ass for sports is because you

1629
01:58:02.399 --> 01:58:08.000
get the biggest audience possible to advertise
your original programming and try to hook them

1630
01:58:08.039 --> 01:58:12.359
on. But you know, sixty
minutes after the football game, or you

1631
01:58:12.399 --> 01:58:15.800
know, your your Thursday Night's slate, things like that. The biggest shows

1632
01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:19.560
ever have been advertised relentlessly on on
on live sports, which is like a

1633
01:58:19.560 --> 01:58:23.479
lost leader for the networks because it's
their best shot to get people to watch

1634
01:58:23.520 --> 01:58:26.680
that and be able to sell advertising
against that. And if what they're overpaying

1635
01:58:26.720 --> 01:58:29.800
for it doesn't lead to adjacencies like
that, if it doesn't lead to them

1636
01:58:30.000 --> 01:58:31.760
bolstering the things they actually can make
a lot of money on, then what

1637
01:58:31.800 --> 01:58:35.920
the fuck are we doing here out
a WCW. I mean, you know,

1638
01:58:35.920 --> 01:58:39.880
it delivered all those rating and then
when it wasn't delivering those ratings anymore,

1639
01:58:39.880 --> 01:58:42.279
even when it was, it was
hard to And that's one of the

1640
01:58:42.319 --> 01:58:45.840
things Guy Evans does brilliantly in his
book is get into that way of thinking

1641
01:58:45.079 --> 01:58:48.640
from a television inside a television mind, No not a wrestling mind, not

1642
01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:51.840
a booking fill the arena's mind,
but a television mind, and why it

1643
01:58:51.920 --> 01:58:55.520
is that they put something on the
air, and how it is they see

1644
01:58:55.520 --> 01:58:58.960
the path to turning that into millions
of dollars in revenue, and it just

1645
01:58:59.000 --> 01:59:02.079
didn't fit any of the play books
that these ad sales departments had at the

1646
01:59:02.119 --> 01:59:05.000
time, or perhaps even do today. It's it's a lot better today,

1647
01:59:05.039 --> 01:59:09.760
but it's it's still not perfect.
They're still you know, just ask Fox

1648
01:59:09.760 --> 01:59:12.920
as far as why they canceled SmackDown. There's still not the return on the

1649
01:59:12.960 --> 01:59:15.560
audience that you would expect just looking
at the raw numbers, because you know,

1650
01:59:15.600 --> 01:59:18.319
wrestling fans are poor, right,
even if they're not even there's plenty

1651
01:59:18.319 --> 01:59:21.720
of studies that say they're not.
It's just that's what advertisers think. And

1652
01:59:21.760 --> 01:59:26.640
it's it's amazing how much of this
of this country is determined by what advertisers

1653
01:59:26.680 --> 01:59:30.000
think about groups of people and assumptions
that they have. You know, Jen

1654
01:59:30.560 --> 01:59:34.159
Jen Why is into this, and
so they all trip over their dicks trying

1655
01:59:34.199 --> 01:59:40.319
to you know, talk about like
sustainability and stuff and you know, buy

1656
01:59:40.399 --> 01:59:44.600
this because then the planet will be
saved because because Jen Why wants to hear

1657
01:59:44.680 --> 01:59:47.600
that from brands. Oh yeah,
find me one, Find me one from

1658
01:59:47.640 --> 01:59:50.720
one person from that generation in front
of me who gives a shit about where

1659
01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:56.079
Chipotle's chicken comes from, you know
where you in regard Yeah, yeah,

1660
01:59:56.680 --> 01:59:59.560
and you know, how is this
going to affect the you know, the

1661
01:59:59.640 --> 02:00:02.560
environment and kind of the future of
the world. You know, brands want

1662
02:00:02.960 --> 02:00:06.439
whenever you hear that, run the
hills. Let me tell you brands today

1663
02:00:06.600 --> 02:00:13.760
need to Yeah, I'll tell you
the consumers expect. What we're doing is

1664
02:00:13.760 --> 02:00:17.039
is is ground breaking. And I
can guarantee you that the ground we break,

1665
02:00:17.159 --> 02:00:24.399
yes, is actually gonna actually fracked
oil. Well, the ground we

1666
02:00:24.520 --> 02:00:30.119
break is going to be replanted into
the in the world, and my trees

1667
02:00:30.199 --> 02:00:36.199
will be grown. Right, and
for every fucking heart destroying energy energy drink

1668
02:00:36.199 --> 02:00:40.720
you purchase, we'll plant a tree
in Nairobi exactly what you will plant.

1669
02:00:40.760 --> 02:00:43.000
We'll plant whatever you want, right, what do you want? What do

1670
02:00:43.000 --> 02:00:45.720
you want us to plant? Just
buy the fucking product to create miss consumer?

1671
02:00:45.840 --> 02:00:48.479
Fuck, I'll plant whatever the fuck
you want, I'll say, I

1672
02:00:48.520 --> 02:00:54.399
will. Well, then I'll eat
a chicken nugget. Is there is there

1673
02:00:54.439 --> 02:00:59.199
not enough green on white background on
our website? Do we need to buy

1674
02:00:59.319 --> 02:01:02.560
stock images from Getty of people like
recreating in the sunshine? Like? What

1675
02:01:02.600 --> 02:01:05.079
do we need to do to get
through to you? People? Tell me

1676
02:01:05.119 --> 02:01:09.159
what I can do by the product. Just tell me what I can do,

1677
02:01:09.840 --> 02:01:12.399
Tell me what you want me to
do. I'll do it. Just

1678
02:01:12.439 --> 02:01:17.439
to buy consumers expect. Consumers demand
relevant advertising. I don't know they don't

1679
02:01:17.920 --> 02:01:23.000
they want no advertising. Actually that's
what it is. They want no advertising

1680
02:01:23.000 --> 02:01:27.079
whatsoever. What you want them to
want is advertising, and you have ways

1681
02:01:27.119 --> 02:01:30.720
of making them take it and enjoy
it. But it's hilarious. So that

1682
02:01:30.920 --> 02:01:38.199
man mindset is going to clash with
wrestling all day forever. He's lapsed Fan

1683
02:01:38.279 --> 02:01:56.279
Wrestling podcast with Jack MJP Soros Fan
Wrestling Podcast. So what's important here as

1684
02:01:56.319 --> 02:01:59.279
well is that you know WW degree
takes place on what was it, March

1685
02:01:59.279 --> 02:02:01.000
eighteenth, right. I can't look
that up enough. I can't tell you

1686
02:02:01.079 --> 02:02:04.199
how many times in researching this episode
I looked up the fucking date of greed

1687
02:02:04.319 --> 02:02:08.279
and I cannot committed to my memory
no matter what I do. Watch Marting

1688
02:02:08.840 --> 02:02:13.960
March eighteen, two days before Brad
Siegel issues a memo internally that basically tells

1689
02:02:13.960 --> 02:02:19.920
you where this is all going.
He sent a memo that outright Alvarez outright

1690
02:02:19.960 --> 02:02:24.720
lied about what was going on.
In early January, we teld you about

1691
02:02:24.720 --> 02:02:28.720
an agreement that we had reached to
sell WCW and its related assets. At

1692
02:02:28.760 --> 02:02:30.760
the time, we said that we
would apprize you of any changes to the

1693
02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:35.840
way WCW operates effective Tuesday, March
twenty seventh, WCW programming will begin a

1694
02:02:35.840 --> 02:02:41.479
period of hiatus. During this hiatus, WCW will review its programming plans and

1695
02:02:41.520 --> 02:02:45.640
determine the course of future WCW branded
entertainment events. On Wednesday, March twenty

1696
02:02:45.680 --> 02:02:47.279
eighth, please plan to attend an
all staff meeting at ten am at the

1697
02:02:47.279 --> 02:02:51.119
power Plant, at which time we
will share with you further information regarding WCW

1698
02:02:51.239 --> 02:02:54.720
plans. In the meantime, I
hope that you will maintain the level of

1699
02:02:54.720 --> 02:02:59.439
professionalism that distinguishes our organization, particularly
as we prepare for the upcoming Panama City,

1700
02:02:59.479 --> 02:03:03.600
Florida. So two days before Greed, the memo goes out that basically

1701
02:03:04.039 --> 02:03:10.600
you know the fusing deal's dead and
that the company is going dark. It

1702
02:03:10.600 --> 02:03:15.800
doesn't have the exact detail that wrestling
is done on the Turner networks and that

1703
02:03:15.800 --> 02:03:17.479
that's the reason the deal is dead. But you had to know going into

1704
02:03:17.479 --> 02:03:23.520
Greed after this memo was issued that
something is seriously wrong here. Sure This

1705
02:03:23.560 --> 02:03:27.680
from ww dot com in an article
they did looking back on how it all

1706
02:03:27.720 --> 02:03:30.760
went down. This was Bishoff's first
experience raising significant funds for a multimillion dollars

1707
02:03:30.840 --> 02:03:34.239
sale, but he found interested partners
in Brian bdaland Steven Greenberg, a fused

1708
02:03:34.239 --> 02:03:38.600
in media ventures. The doll and
Greenberg founded the Classic Sports Network in nineteen

1709
02:03:38.640 --> 02:03:41.600
ninety five and then sold it to
ESPN two years later for one hundred and

1710
02:03:41.640 --> 02:03:44.760
seventy five million dollars. So that's
the play here. They're thinking they can

1711
02:03:44.760 --> 02:03:49.399
buy WCW shored up. They probably
liked the archive they have right having successfully

1712
02:03:49.439 --> 02:03:55.760
sold old footage of big time stars. They knew plenty. The article reads

1713
02:03:55.760 --> 02:03:59.279
about how to brand a sports property
to get great success. Bishoff raised sixty

1714
02:03:59.319 --> 02:04:02.159
seven million with Fusic Media Ventures to
purchase WW in eight two thousand, but

1715
02:04:02.199 --> 02:04:06.880
Turner Broadcasting Systems had one major catch. TBS retained a minority interest in long

1716
02:04:06.960 --> 02:04:12.560
term programming rights, So in addition
to really not being down with that term

1717
02:04:12.600 --> 02:04:15.199
of Fusian having control over this time
slot, they also wanted a piece of

1718
02:04:15.319 --> 02:04:18.880
PCW as well, So of course
it sound like they that's a hell of

1719
02:04:18.880 --> 02:04:21.960
a deal. Jamie Keller wants nothing
to do with wrestling except he wants to

1720
02:04:23.000 --> 02:04:27.720
retain a fucking ownership percentage in the
wrestling company. He would even want to

1721
02:04:27.720 --> 02:04:30.039
make that kind of money if he's
in his anti wrestling as it's been a

1722
02:04:30.039 --> 02:04:35.000
as it's been assumed over the years. Listen, I hate wrestling. Listen,

1723
02:04:35.079 --> 02:04:40.359
I hate wrestling, all right,
but listen, I only making money

1724
02:04:40.399 --> 02:04:45.079
off it, Like, can you
blame me? Right? I'll make money

1725
02:04:45.079 --> 02:04:46.600
off everything I hate. I just
don't want on my fucking network. Wow,

1726
02:04:46.760 --> 02:04:49.479
I'll make money off it. Hage
says this in the article. Brad

1727
02:04:49.479 --> 02:04:53.119
Siegel was not going to sell the
company unless Eric Bischoff took ten years on

1728
02:04:53.159 --> 02:04:56.680
TBS as part of their contract.
So maybe Siegal is thinking, goddamn,

1729
02:04:57.239 --> 02:05:00.359
I got money guaranteed in my budget
to for this time slot, and it's

1730
02:05:00.359 --> 02:05:02.840
good money. So maybe that's why
he took the deal. I don't know,

1731
02:05:02.920 --> 02:05:06.319
but Keller didn't like that deal at
all, and my Bradziegel rolled right

1732
02:05:06.359 --> 02:05:12.199
the fuck over on that deal.
Term Bischoff admitted he looked into some other

1733
02:05:12.239 --> 02:05:14.760
networks, but nothing came befruition quote. I had talked to a variety of

1734
02:05:14.800 --> 02:05:17.159
networks at that time who expressed interest
in WCW, one of the being FX,

1735
02:05:17.159 --> 02:05:19.920
he said, I had multiple conversations
with Peter Logori, who was running

1736
02:05:19.960 --> 02:05:23.600
FX at the time. It never
progressed to the point of making an offer,

1737
02:05:23.640 --> 02:05:27.680
but we got very close. The
real question is could he have a

1738
02:05:27.680 --> 02:05:30.600
beer with them? Right? Well, put Peter Ligouri's name right up there

1739
02:05:30.640 --> 02:05:35.039
with the TNH pantheon, you know
of like Scott Fishman and Kevin Ka and

1740
02:05:35.119 --> 02:05:40.239
all the network people he likes to
name drop that he knew and dealt with

1741
02:05:40.319 --> 02:05:43.520
and had meetings with, and you
know, had there was a conference phone

1742
02:05:43.520 --> 02:05:45.479
on the desk, you know,
so that the people could dial in.

1743
02:05:46.000 --> 02:05:49.119
You know how that goes because they're
traveling, right because they had a client

1744
02:05:49.720 --> 02:05:54.079
had to go see in Chicago.
But they need to be part of this

1745
02:05:54.159 --> 02:05:59.760
meeting. So this is more of
what Bischoff said on the aforementioned WB On

1746
02:05:59.800 --> 02:06:01.880
Told documentary. He said, we're
nailing down our strategies, and we were

1747
02:06:02.079 --> 02:06:05.319
nailing down our strategies and tactics on
how do we launch the brand, what

1748
02:06:05.359 --> 02:06:08.520
it was going to look like,
feel like. We knew that we weren't

1749
02:06:08.520 --> 02:06:10.920
coming to be able to travel the
show the way we did with Nitro.

1750
02:06:11.279 --> 02:06:14.680
I had a relationship with Peter Morton. There's another who owned The hard Rock

1751
02:06:14.680 --> 02:06:16.159
at the time. We had reached
a handshake with the hard Rock to create

1752
02:06:16.159 --> 02:06:19.960
a permanent venue for WW and Las
Vegas This is actually Brian Badal talking.

1753
02:06:19.960 --> 02:06:24.239
Sorry, I shouldn't have been so
persumptuous. There a bit of Eric and

1754
02:06:24.239 --> 02:06:27.479
a bit of Brian here. Sure, we had reached a handshake deal with

1755
02:06:27.520 --> 02:06:30.239
the hard Rock to create a permanent
venue for ww and Las Vegas a boss

1756
02:06:30.239 --> 02:06:32.560
there were going to move the whole
operation to Vegas. Of course makes sense,

1757
02:06:33.119 --> 02:06:35.000
Eric Haud talk to me about moving
at to Vegas. I was going

1758
02:06:35.000 --> 02:06:38.680
to be Eric's right hand man to
help run the company once Fusion bought it

1759
02:06:38.720 --> 02:06:41.520
and we moved the whole operation out
to Vegas. I think having somebody like

1760
02:06:41.600 --> 02:06:43.439
Johnny in there that would really led
us to come up. And I used

1761
02:06:43.439 --> 02:06:45.560
to refer to this two or three
dimensional finishes. This is Eric talking about

1762
02:06:45.840 --> 02:06:48.840
using Johnny Ace essentially as the booker
for this new WCW. Johnny A.

1763
02:06:49.119 --> 02:06:53.680
Laurnnitis would be sort of like the
visionary Eric brought Lauren Aiis in in mid

1764
02:06:53.720 --> 02:06:57.199
two thousand. Of course, he
had learned under the learning tree of Giant

1765
02:06:57.199 --> 02:07:00.399
baba Is, a longtime top guy
in All Japan Pro Wrestling, and saw

1766
02:07:00.479 --> 02:07:03.039
that company kind of transformed by the
introduction of clean finishes. You know this

1767
02:07:03.159 --> 02:07:06.079
novel idea that We're going to have
the discipline to give the fans winners and

1768
02:07:06.079 --> 02:07:11.239
losers, and it won't destroy the
company or the drawing power of the top

1769
02:07:11.279 --> 02:07:14.720
evyways. And so he came in
with this revolutionary idea of like what w

1770
02:07:14.760 --> 02:07:16.119
CID he needs his clean finishes,
and Bischoff loved it because of all the

1771
02:07:16.159 --> 02:07:18.439
things he knew about wrestling on how
to produce it and everything he didn't know

1772
02:07:18.439 --> 02:07:25.520
the first thing about, like what
it was about producing a match that helded

1773
02:07:25.720 --> 02:07:29.439
dramatic results, right. That was
made bis up to the wrestlers and Kevin

1774
02:07:29.439 --> 02:07:32.039
Sullivan and guys who had wrestled that
worked for him to do, and Johnny

1775
02:07:32.039 --> 02:07:35.560
Ace came to the fresh perspective on
that and addressed a huge problem with wcws.

1776
02:07:35.600 --> 02:07:38.880
They just couldn't figure out how to
put match finishes together. They just

1777
02:07:38.920 --> 02:07:43.159
couldn't figure it out, so it
always ended up in these deeply dissatisfying clusterfuck

1778
02:07:43.199 --> 02:07:46.399
disqualification scenarios or just you know,
outcomes that didn't really strengthen either guy.

1779
02:07:46.960 --> 02:07:50.600
So he comes in and starts doing
that. What happens is as Bischof starts

1780
02:07:50.600 --> 02:07:54.960
clashing with Russo and starts distancing himself
in mid two thousands. We talked about

1781
02:07:55.039 --> 02:07:57.680
on the Bash of the Beach two
thousand episode, Johnny Yes kind of becomes

1782
02:07:57.680 --> 02:08:01.600
his emissary at the Arenas, kind
of becomes his like proxy, you know,

1783
02:08:01.079 --> 02:08:05.159
uh seeing probably reporting back and he's
the guy, he's the intermediary,

1784
02:08:05.199 --> 02:08:07.920
for instance, between Hulkog and Vince
Russo and what's gonna happen at Basher of

1785
02:08:07.960 --> 02:08:11.520
the Beach. It's not Eric Bischof, it's Johnny Ace who's the go between.

1786
02:08:11.800 --> 02:08:15.119
So he's becoming really that that functionary
for Eric Bischoff and would have had

1787
02:08:15.119 --> 02:08:18.479
a very prominent role in a reconstituted
WCW. Would have moved to Las Vegas

1788
02:08:18.520 --> 02:08:22.920
and been the booker and and because
he was so well positioned, ended up

1789
02:08:22.319 --> 02:08:26.760
kind of beautifully uh transitioning when Shane
and company showed up at that final Nitro,

1790
02:08:26.880 --> 02:08:30.720
and he held their hands and he
facilitated them getting you know, the

1791
02:08:30.720 --> 02:08:33.159
information and the access that they needed. Let me tell you whatever you need.

1792
02:08:33.319 --> 02:08:37.960
Hey, you know exactly, I
got everything's here. It's just for

1793
02:08:37.039 --> 02:08:41.880
you guys, whatever you need.
Listen, I'll tell you what I got.

1794
02:08:41.079 --> 02:08:46.279
I got, I got women.
I got women, all right,

1795
02:08:46.319 --> 02:08:50.640
So do I Palin you're about to
find that out. I got I'll tell

1796
02:08:50.640 --> 02:08:54.279
you what, Fire all of them
if you have to, all right,

1797
02:08:54.359 --> 02:08:58.279
I will do whatever you want me
to do. You want me to shoot

1798
02:08:58.319 --> 02:09:03.079
Rick Flair in the head, I
got a doge, please. And that's

1799
02:09:03.079 --> 02:09:05.479
what got him the job at w
B in such a smooth transition. Was

1800
02:09:05.479 --> 02:09:09.479
how accommodating and helpful he was during
that that transition period. They did a

1801
02:09:09.520 --> 02:09:11.439
table for three with Shane McMahon and
him talking about this, and Shane said

1802
02:09:11.439 --> 02:09:16.600
he was it was really how impressed
he was by Johnny taking them through the

1803
02:09:16.640 --> 02:09:20.199
operation that got that that that won
them over and got him the job.

1804
02:09:20.560 --> 02:09:24.720
But he would have been WCW through
and through if they would have launched this.

1805
02:09:24.520 --> 02:09:28.960
I'm just so first of all,
WW is gonna come back. Yeah,

1806
02:09:28.439 --> 02:09:31.439
all right, they're gonna do it. I'm not saying I've heard this.

1807
02:09:31.520 --> 02:09:37.199
I'm saying there's too much here for
them not to have a bright idea.

1808
02:09:37.239 --> 02:09:39.920
One day, let's do a Yeah, let's do a nitro. Can

1809
02:09:39.960 --> 02:09:43.279
you imagine if it just opens and
the WW logo's back and the set is

1810
02:09:43.319 --> 02:09:50.439
there and the pyro shooting off,
I'm amazing. If they just remade it

1811
02:09:50.479 --> 02:09:56.159
exactly as it used to look.
Yep, Yep, I don't I think

1812
02:09:56.199 --> 02:10:01.079
that would be phenomenal, phenomenal it's
gonna happen, especially with Rock like involved

1813
02:10:01.079 --> 02:10:05.079
producing the doc and like, yeah, you know what I mean Now,

1814
02:10:05.159 --> 02:10:09.439
that's gonna be one of his bright
ideas. Yep. So yeah, so

1815
02:10:09.720 --> 02:10:11.880
three dimensional finishes, Yes, So
Bischoff has really taken with this idea that

1816
02:10:11.920 --> 02:10:16.520
Johnny Yes could come up with a
thing where like the finishes of matches would

1817
02:10:16.600 --> 02:10:18.079
lead you right up to our traditional
wrestling fan would think, Okay, it's

1818
02:10:18.079 --> 02:10:22.119
the finish, and then there's two
or three more finishes after that. Beicheff

1819
02:10:22.199 --> 02:10:24.159
is really in love with that idea
of like being able to be so good

1820
02:10:24.640 --> 02:10:30.079
at booking finishes that you could fool
the fans into two or three false finishes

1821
02:10:30.119 --> 02:10:31.560
basically, and not just the way
he talks about it. It's not just

1822
02:10:31.600 --> 02:10:35.119
simply like guy hit his finisher,
he kicked out. It's more than that.

1823
02:10:35.520 --> 02:10:37.720
But that was part of what he
thought would be exciting about his W

1824
02:10:39.079 --> 02:10:43.199
presentations. I've talked about bringing Joey
Styles as the announcer as ECW was circling

1825
02:10:43.199 --> 02:10:46.000
in the drain, bringing Rob Van
Dam and perhaps of choice others mecw's talent,

1826
02:10:46.239 --> 02:10:50.359
maybe even bringing in Jerry the King
Lawler, who at this exact time

1827
02:10:50.399 --> 02:10:52.960
was on the outs with WWE doing
them firing his wife, right and vice

1828
02:10:54.000 --> 02:10:56.479
you to consider World Championship Wrestling from
Las Vegas in two thousand and one with

1829
02:10:56.600 --> 02:11:01.760
Joey Styles and Jerry Lawler in the
announced chair. That would be fucking bizarre.

1830
02:11:01.079 --> 02:11:05.479
Jerry Lawler is color on nitro.
I'm sitting here, I'm trying to

1831
02:11:05.560 --> 02:11:09.640
let my body process it and it
can't. No, It's just it's something

1832
02:11:09.640 --> 02:11:15.039
that's too It's too off the deep
end, isn't It just seems wrong.

1833
02:11:15.439 --> 02:11:22.000
Yeah, So they talk about the
booking ideas. They talk about talent,

1834
02:11:24.039 --> 02:11:28.079
bad branding, and to go in
the hatus would overcome bad branding. Bischoff

1835
02:11:28.159 --> 02:11:31.520
wanted to do it, perhaps for
as long as six months, three to

1836
02:11:31.600 --> 02:11:35.159
six months. I'm sure at first
it was six and then he started saying

1837
02:11:35.159 --> 02:11:37.840
three to six when he realized he
couldn't go off the air of six months

1838
02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:41.800
and still have anybody that retained any
confidence in him. But they were building

1839
02:11:43.159 --> 02:11:46.159
anticipation for the Resurrection, and they
wanted to call the pay per view the

1840
02:11:46.159 --> 02:11:48.479
Big Bang. But we had no
idea who's going to be on that show

1841
02:11:48.560 --> 02:11:50.880
or what that show is going to
look like. We just knew we were

1842
02:11:50.920 --> 02:11:54.640
going to do it. We weren't
interested in going back to what we used

1843
02:11:54.680 --> 02:11:56.920
to do in any way, shape
or form, and the emphasis would have

1844
02:11:56.000 --> 02:12:01.159
been much more on wrestling in the
Yeah, the hard rock pyro filled Brian

1845
02:12:01.159 --> 02:12:03.520
Bedal says, you know, I
think part of the name The Big Bang

1846
02:12:03.840 --> 02:12:07.760
was that there was going to be, you know, the kinds of explosions

1847
02:12:07.800 --> 02:12:09.680
that you know happened in action movies
but not in wrestling. It was going

1848
02:12:09.720 --> 02:12:13.199
to be a spectacle. So I
don't know what they had in mind,

1849
02:12:13.199 --> 02:12:16.520
but it wasn't you know, Welcome
to Monday Night, Raw Piro. It

1850
02:12:16.600 --> 02:12:20.119
was fucking, you know, a
car and a house blowing up on a

1851
02:12:20.159 --> 02:12:22.479
Hollywood set kind of thing. I
don't know what that means. I don't

1852
02:12:22.520 --> 02:12:26.840
understand what that means either. That
would have been the Big Bang, he

1853
02:12:26.880 --> 02:12:28.760
says. We started looking at the
talent roster and determining who we could afford

1854
02:12:28.800 --> 02:12:31.840
to keep, who we wanted to
keep, who we didn't need to keep,

1855
02:12:31.840 --> 02:12:35.119
and who we couldn't afford and just
going through that analysis, boss,

1856
02:12:35.199 --> 02:12:39.199
have you ever seen the Big Bang
poster before. I think you showed me,

1857
02:12:39.319 --> 02:12:41.560
but feel free there it is in
your email. Oh it's my email.

1858
02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:46.560
A good bang. Just take a
look, just just basking and the

1859
02:12:46.600 --> 02:12:52.760
potential that it signals, you know, honestly and invite yourself to consider a

1860
02:12:52.800 --> 02:13:00.960
world where this actually happens. I
see, that's a weird. Anybody can

1861
02:13:01.000 --> 02:13:05.239
find this just google ww big Bang. That's a weird poster. Why it's

1862
02:13:05.279 --> 02:13:11.640
weird, Well, it's like it's
very minimalist number worry but so and like

1863
02:13:11.760 --> 02:13:18.119
the WCW logo is just it's just
block lettering, three plane letters, right,

1864
02:13:18.199 --> 02:13:22.159
there's no real there's nothing to it. And I always saw that as

1865
02:13:22.199 --> 02:13:26.199
like but that couldn't have been their
logo. But if you watch the final

1866
02:13:26.239 --> 02:13:28.920
few episodes of Worldwide, which was
their syndicated show, and it's a desk

1867
02:13:28.960 --> 02:13:33.600
show, so they had like a
video behind Scott Huntson and Mike Tiney,

1868
02:13:33.000 --> 02:13:39.079
they showed that that WW typeface on
there really yeah, along with like different

1869
02:13:39.119 --> 02:13:43.960
one word things like passion power like
things like that interspersed with just like you

1870
02:13:43.000 --> 02:13:48.079
know, kind of generic wrestling footage. And I jumped out to me immediately,

1871
02:13:48.239 --> 02:13:52.800
well that's the same font they use
in that famous thing this you know

1872
02:13:52.840 --> 02:13:54.479
where this was? Right? This
poster that you're looking at. No,

1873
02:13:56.520 --> 02:14:01.239
this was the back cover of the
second to last issue of the WCW magazine,

1874
02:14:01.359 --> 02:14:03.520
Get Out of Town. No context, no explanation, know nothing.

1875
02:14:05.079 --> 02:14:07.359
They would often put the next pay
per view poster on the back cover of

1876
02:14:07.399 --> 02:14:11.039
their magazine, and there this thing
was the big bang. What I love

1877
02:14:11.119 --> 02:14:16.079
about this, and we'll get so
much more into this is the WCW magazine

1878
02:14:16.119 --> 02:14:20.840
gave away so much of how far
down the road they really were about planning

1879
02:14:20.880 --> 02:14:24.119
a future beyond the March twenty sixth
nitro. Like it wasn't just like we're

1880
02:14:24.119 --> 02:14:28.520
going to disappear and figure it out. They had plans in motion, like

1881
02:14:28.640 --> 02:14:31.560
to go as far as to print
this yep. Really tells you how far

1882
02:14:31.680 --> 02:14:35.520
down the road they really thought they
were with Fusian media ventures. And maybe

1883
02:14:35.520 --> 02:14:39.119
they were naive to think that,
but the content of the magazine is chock

1884
02:14:39.239 --> 02:14:43.720
full of like signaling about a new
era being upon us and Bischoff having retaken

1885
02:14:43.760 --> 02:14:48.039
the helm after you know it didn't
work out with Russou in two thousand taking

1886
02:14:48.079 --> 02:14:52.119
the helm again in January, which
is hilarious because Bischoff today at his podcast

1887
02:14:52.119 --> 02:14:56.640
talks about how he really had no
contract or any official formal responsibilities. You

1888
02:14:56.720 --> 02:15:00.600
read their magazine and he's referred to
as WCW President and talked about as a

1889
02:15:00.640 --> 02:15:03.920
guy who's basically architecting everything that's happening
in the WCW at that point in time.

1890
02:15:05.079 --> 02:15:09.680
It's really strange how this cognitive dissonance
that was going on about his role

1891
02:15:09.760 --> 02:15:13.119
reminds me a lot of TNA about
how he was never the booker. He

1892
02:15:13.199 --> 02:15:15.800
was just the executive producer, and
he wouldn't want that job even though he

1893
02:15:15.840 --> 02:15:18.560
was booking. It's like, well, if you're not the booker, but

1894
02:15:18.600 --> 02:15:20.439
you're booking, I think you're the
booker. But it's fine. You don't

1895
02:15:20.439 --> 02:15:24.119
know what you're talking about. So
it says May sixth, ten billion years

1896
02:15:24.159 --> 02:15:28.800
ago, The Big Bang, the
creation of the universe. May sixth,

1897
02:15:28.840 --> 02:15:33.319
two thousand and one, The Big
Bang, the creation of the new WCW.

1898
02:15:33.600 --> 02:15:37.479
This time it's on pay per view. It's personal, The Big Bang

1899
02:15:37.520 --> 02:15:41.359
May sixth dot com And no,
I see nothing on the archive that shows

1900
02:15:41.359 --> 02:15:46.840
what that website looked like. But
I'm completely fucking obsessed with envisioning this future.

1901
02:15:48.000 --> 02:15:50.119
So I think o WW needs to
do is just come out with a

1902
02:15:50.119 --> 02:15:52.840
big bang show. They need to
pick this thread up, Oh totally,

1903
02:15:52.880 --> 02:15:56.720
you know what I mean, and
just have Bischoff come out and just announce,

1904
02:15:56.920 --> 02:16:00.479
you know what I mean, just
announce, But he was going to

1905
02:16:00.479 --> 02:16:05.359
announce back then with a different troupe
would be crazy. You can hire Tony

1906
02:16:05.399 --> 02:16:09.960
when his AW deal is up.
I'm sure they'd love that. So WA

1907
02:16:11.159 --> 02:16:16.880
sixth came and nothing happened as we
know the creation, As this article from

1908
02:16:16.960 --> 02:16:18.359
w w dot com reads, the
creation of a new WCW was forming in

1909
02:16:18.479 --> 02:16:22.239
WWE, and the big bang didn't
occurruntil May twenty eighth, when WCW superstar

1910
02:16:22.319 --> 02:16:26.479
Landstorm ran into a WW ring and
kicked w superstar Perry Saturn in the face.

1911
02:16:26.680 --> 02:16:30.439
Three weeks later, DDP joined him
on Raw as well as an influx

1912
02:16:30.439 --> 02:16:35.280
of WCW superstars as part of What
Boss The Invasion That's Right, which is

1913
02:16:35.319 --> 02:16:39.360
also covered in detail on the archives
the ww Invasion show the WWF Invasion pay

1914
02:16:39.360 --> 02:16:41.799
per view July two thousand and one. As they try to figure out what

1915
02:16:41.840 --> 02:16:46.360
to do with the assets that they
acquired on the cheap, and a fire

1916
02:16:46.479 --> 02:16:50.319
sale essentially as Turner sold to WWF
ultimately. Did you know they cut some

1917
02:16:50.399 --> 02:16:56.360
ads for WCW house shows WWF did, No. The young rest is crulling,

1918
02:16:56.799 --> 02:17:01.879
the power of building voices, feel
the rebellion. Who will lead the

1919
02:17:03.000 --> 02:17:07.079
revolution on June twenty seven? Everything? You know, He's about to change

1920
02:17:07.360 --> 02:17:13.040
a part of history when the WCW
takes over the Stabler Arena live June twenty

1921
02:17:13.079 --> 02:17:16.600
seven. Tickets are on sale now
with the Stabler Arena box Office, ticket

1922
02:17:16.639 --> 02:17:18.840
Master or charge my phone in two
one, five, three, six,

1923
02:17:18.920 --> 02:17:24.840
two thousand. The Return of the
WCW. No Revolution, he's near,

1924
02:17:26.000 --> 02:17:31.959
that's insane. There were tickets on
sale to go see a w WCW house

1925
02:17:31.959 --> 02:17:39.120
show, brought to you by the
new owners Word Wrestling Entertainment. I mean,

1926
02:17:39.680 --> 02:17:45.719
I'm I'm intrigued. I'm disappointed that, you know, we never really

1927
02:17:45.959 --> 02:17:50.799
saw it, and I'm also alarmed
and all the things. All where's that

1928
02:17:50.840 --> 02:17:56.760
old ww T shirt you had with
the WWWWW logo? Oh yeah, I

1929
02:17:56.840 --> 02:18:01.120
haven't. That's That's what I think
of right away. Yeah, for sure,

1930
02:18:01.680 --> 02:18:05.879
for sure. Back to the Observer
of Feb twenty six, this is

1931
02:18:05.120 --> 02:18:11.399
characterizing Bischoff kind of in mid you
know, deal making here, realizing perhaps

1932
02:18:11.879 --> 02:18:16.120
or reportedly, that it might be
too long of a wait to have all

1933
02:18:16.159 --> 02:18:20.079
of your top guys shelved. Meltzer
wrote Bischoff's thoughts were based on the idea

1934
02:18:20.079 --> 02:18:22.639
that he didn't want to present a
steale product and allow the fans to get

1935
02:18:22.680 --> 02:18:26.639
more apathetic by basically struggling along with
no storylines and no stars until the planned

1936
02:18:26.680 --> 02:18:28.440
relaunch in May. Most likely,
the ratings from the past week may have

1937
02:18:28.440 --> 02:18:31.600
played a part in the decision,
because if the ratings would have held steady

1938
02:18:31.639 --> 02:18:35.079
at the two point five level to
build for a relaunch, it would have

1939
02:18:35.079 --> 02:18:37.639
been acceptable. But when the February
twelve, two thousand and one numbers came

1940
02:18:37.680 --> 02:18:41.120
in, tying the record low for
a Nitro live show and the regular time

1941
02:18:41.120 --> 02:18:45.920
slot two point zero eight, that
was no longer an acceptable level to stay

1942
02:18:45.959 --> 02:18:48.239
at or even probably drop from,
since the storyline they were building toward,

1943
02:18:48.280 --> 02:18:52.639
for better or worse, required keeping
some of the biggest stars on the sidelines

1944
02:18:52.799 --> 02:18:54.360
for nearly two more months. There
is also the feeling that, with the

1945
02:18:54.399 --> 02:18:58.760
WWF's problems with the XFL, that
so much of Vince McMahon's focus will be

1946
02:18:58.799 --> 02:19:01.280
on football for the next two months, so that it's not the time to

1947
02:19:01.319 --> 02:19:03.879
set out waiting to make a move. Although ww's problems at this point are

1948
02:19:03.920 --> 02:19:09.000
not greatly contingent of the focus of
McMahon and the storylines of the WWF being

1949
02:19:09.000 --> 02:19:11.639
stale or not no doubt with TBS
and T and T having to do make

1950
02:19:11.719 --> 02:19:15.680
goods, no doubt to do make
goods. So that opens up Erico's right

1951
02:19:15.799 --> 02:19:20.239
down that path here in a second, Yeah, make goods and advertising.

1952
02:19:20.280 --> 02:19:22.520
Due to declining ratings, the networks
would also be adverse to shutting down for

1953
02:19:22.559 --> 02:19:26.200
the same reason, Time Warner vetoed
Bischoff's original plan to shut down starting this

1954
02:19:26.239 --> 02:19:30.280
week. Bishoff at press time said
he would make the final decision later this

1955
02:19:30.319 --> 02:19:33.639
week, and another main factor would
be based on exactly when the closing of

1956
02:19:33.639 --> 02:19:37.319
the fuse and purchase of WCW is
finalized, since Time Warner nixed his previous

1957
02:19:37.520 --> 02:19:41.680
shutdown plan, so there was a
previous plan that was next. Meltzer was

1958
02:19:41.680 --> 02:19:45.520
talking to Bischoff at this time,
so it's not entirely out of the romal

1959
02:19:45.559 --> 02:19:48.559
possibility that Bischoff told him this himself, but all these years later on his

1960
02:19:48.600 --> 02:19:52.159
podcast, Bischoff here's this read back
to him, and has this to say,

1961
02:19:52.879 --> 02:19:58.280
had I had once fusion came in, once we entered into a letter

1962
02:19:58.280 --> 02:20:03.639
of intent, if I would have
said let's shut it down now, time

1963
02:20:03.680 --> 02:20:09.559
Warner executives would have thrown a fucking
party. There was no it make good?

1964
02:20:09.639 --> 02:20:16.879
What Jesus Christ? Okay, nothing
even remotely close to that was true.

1965
02:20:18.799 --> 02:20:20.680
In fact, it was the opposite. We could have pulled the plug

1966
02:20:20.840 --> 02:20:28.760
and gone into shutdown mode any time
we wanted. Turner executives couldn't wait for

1967
02:20:28.920 --> 02:20:33.000
us to shut it down. They
could wait. How tough would it have

1968
02:20:33.040 --> 02:20:37.959
been just to slide in a movie
out of their library into that team's same

1969
02:20:39.000 --> 02:20:43.440
time slot and probably get, if
not as good of a rating, Because

1970
02:20:43.479 --> 02:20:46.920
you know, it's easy for us, an idiot like Melzer to show horrible

1971
02:20:48.000 --> 02:20:52.440
rating two point two. Well guess
what else was delivering two point twos and

1972
02:20:52.479 --> 02:20:56.159
two point fives on Turner on TNT
at the time. Oh, I don't

1973
02:20:56.159 --> 02:21:03.000
know, fucking nothing so other than
sports obviously playoffs, and even then it

1974
02:21:03.040 --> 02:21:09.360
was close. But the CPMs,
the costs per thousands, the value of

1975
02:21:09.440 --> 02:21:15.639
an AD inside of wrestling, even
at a three or a four A rating

1976
02:21:16.120 --> 02:21:22.520
was probably less than any movie you
wanted to put in that time slot during

1977
02:21:22.520 --> 02:21:30.440
that period of time, because wrestling
was still not a place where most advertisers

1978
02:21:30.479 --> 02:21:35.040
wanted to be at CPM Popdihant.
Oh, yes, so this thing about

1979
02:21:35.040 --> 02:21:41.040
how you know, guess what else
was doing the numbers Nitro was doing even

1980
02:21:41.079 --> 02:21:46.399
at that low level. Nothing.
Well, Fortunately for us, the Associated

1981
02:21:46.399 --> 02:21:50.200
Press would publish on a regular cadence
the cable Nielsen ratings back in those days

1982
02:21:50.319 --> 02:21:54.680
on a somewhat regular clip. So
let's take you back to February first,

1983
02:21:54.719 --> 02:21:56.000
two thousand and one, the time
period in question, and get a look

1984
02:21:56.639 --> 02:22:01.959
at what out there would have out
done on what Nitro did at a two

1985
02:22:01.959 --> 02:22:05.000
point zero eight. How about Ripley's
Believer In or Not on a Turner Network

1986
02:22:05.040 --> 02:22:09.399
TNT, which was doing a two
point seven and out drawing them. About

1987
02:22:09.399 --> 02:22:15.639
the Pretender two thousand and one on
TNT, which drew three point five and

1988
02:22:15.639 --> 02:22:22.280
three point five three million homes and
several other things not necessarily in the turner

1989
02:22:22.319 --> 02:22:28.120
networks, but hey, Arnold rug
rats, do you remember it was fucking

1990
02:22:28.319 --> 02:22:35.479
out drawing out Wow, Nickelodeon was
like one of the highest rated cable stations

1991
02:22:35.520 --> 02:22:37.559
at the time. Sure, I
believe that just it's it's wild. But

1992
02:22:39.399 --> 02:22:43.799
you know, two fours across the
board, wow, yep. And guess

1993
02:22:43.799 --> 02:22:48.799
what isn't on this top fifteen list? Nitro yep. And guess what's number

1994
02:22:48.799 --> 02:22:54.920
one and number two? Raw?
Yes on TNN and the War Zone,

1995
02:22:56.440 --> 02:23:01.239
Well it says WWF Entertainment Monday at
ten, number two WWAF Entertainment Monday at

1996
02:23:01.319 --> 02:23:05.079
nine. Yeah, I had no
problem with that. And then the pretender

1997
02:23:05.120 --> 02:23:09.079
on TNT is next, which also
a w show as well. Yeah,

1998
02:23:09.200 --> 02:23:11.879
don't me the difference. So I
don't know. I'm just saying, if

1999
02:23:11.920 --> 02:23:18.840
you're not in the top fifteen,
yeah, I mean, you don't hold

2000
02:23:18.840 --> 02:23:22.680
the position you think you do as
drawing a number that nothing else on cable

2001
02:23:22.760 --> 02:23:26.120
is going to be able to draw. Now, where are those sports?

2002
02:23:26.120 --> 02:23:28.799
He referenced, There's not a single
that hadn't really started yet. I mean

2003
02:23:30.120 --> 02:23:35.520
TNT had experimented with sports right around
the time of you know, Nitro launching

2004
02:23:35.799 --> 02:23:37.959
and right shortly before that, and
USA had as well, but there weren't

2005
02:23:39.000 --> 02:23:43.760
really many. I don't think many
playoff sports to speak of on the Turner

2006
02:23:43.799 --> 02:23:46.040
networks back then. I could be
wrong, but whatever the case, they

2007
02:23:46.079 --> 02:23:50.680
certainly weren't running in February twenty eleven, which twenty oh one, rather,

2008
02:23:50.920 --> 02:23:54.840
which is the time period of this
Meltzer report. I don't know, just

2009
02:23:54.840 --> 02:23:58.879
saying now, you know so what
that we weren't top fifteen. It's not

2010
02:23:58.920 --> 02:24:03.079
like we had been top fifteen at
any point in the recent memory, right,

2011
02:24:03.159 --> 02:24:09.239
Well, you were top fifteen back
in two thousand. If you go

2012
02:24:09.280 --> 02:24:13.319
a year before that, there's Monday
Nitro at number seven on all of cable

2013
02:24:13.360 --> 02:24:16.959
on TNT at a two point five. Rugrats was beating it, but you

2014
02:24:16.040 --> 02:24:20.239
were beating a lot of other Rugrats
episodes. You were beating some Lifetime movies.

2015
02:24:20.239 --> 02:24:26.360
Indecent Proposal on USA, Cabin by
the Lake on USA, a woman

2016
02:24:26.399 --> 02:24:30.600
named Jackie on Lifetime. Lifetime was
killing it with original movies back then,

2017
02:24:30.639 --> 02:24:35.159
you remember that absolutely, that was
such a thing. But yeah, January

2018
02:24:35.680 --> 02:24:39.719
two thousand and one, Nitro nowhere
to be found in the top fifteen.

2019
02:24:39.600 --> 02:24:45.280
March two thousand and one, Nitro
nowhere to be found in the top fifteen.

2020
02:24:45.319 --> 02:24:50.280
Though certainly jag was on USA,
yes, or Jackass on MTV was

2021
02:24:50.319 --> 02:24:56.159
taking off massive, And there's WWF
from the top one and three spot with

2022
02:24:56.159 --> 02:25:01.920
Cliffhanger on TBS drawing at three point
five. Nothing they could put on would

2023
02:25:01.000 --> 02:25:05.479
outdraw Nitro. How about a three
point five for Klemfinger, the fucking shitty

2024
02:25:05.520 --> 02:25:09.399
ass slow movie from nineteen ninety three, Right to your two point zero eight

2025
02:25:11.000 --> 02:25:16.159
idiots. February you were in the
top fifteen, no problems. May two

2026
02:25:16.239 --> 02:25:20.719
thousand you were number three at a
two point eight, only only behind raw

2027
02:25:20.719 --> 02:25:28.319
Thunder was even top fifteen in May
two thousand, September two thousand. I'm

2028
02:25:28.360 --> 02:25:33.600
looking here, there's Nintro at number
seven. Okay, So the point here

2029
02:25:33.639 --> 02:25:37.360
October I can keep going if you
want sure. October two thousand, Nitro

2030
02:25:37.520 --> 02:25:43.079
number eleven on all of cable.
So the point is, no Nitro by

2031
02:25:43.079 --> 02:25:50.559
that point was not something that held
the position of what else are you going

2032
02:25:50.600 --> 02:25:52.719
to put on? That was drawing
those kind of numbers? Nothing, I

2033
02:25:52.719 --> 02:25:56.399
don't see it. I think that, in fact, that was true of

2034
02:25:56.520 --> 02:26:01.719
WCW in ninety eight, ninety nine
to some degree, two thousand ninety seven

2035
02:26:01.760 --> 02:26:05.079
to some degree, but it wasn't
true come two thousand and one. They

2036
02:26:05.120 --> 02:26:09.079
were fucked. In two thousand and
one, they they hit I mean I

2037
02:26:09.159 --> 02:26:13.399
mentioned something stabilized from like an tenant's
perspective and things. But they hit such

2038
02:26:13.399 --> 02:26:16.479
an iceberg that it was. It
came at the same time that they were

2039
02:26:16.520 --> 02:26:22.120
purposely, you know, pushing stars
off television as part of this reset idea

2040
02:26:22.879 --> 02:26:26.600
that it was. It was looking
it was looking like the deal makers were

2041
02:26:28.520 --> 02:26:31.159
purchasing damaged goods. I mean,
I'd hate to go so far as to

2042
02:26:31.200 --> 02:26:33.879
say it, but I should suggest, I guess. I mean, what

2043
02:26:33.959 --> 02:26:39.079
if what if Bischoff's idea to ice
all these top guys and not put them

2044
02:26:39.079 --> 02:26:43.760
on TV generating ratings was a big
part of what gave Fusie cold feet.

2045
02:26:45.159 --> 02:26:48.719
I don't know why no one's ever
considered that, Like why the ratings of

2046
02:26:48.799 --> 02:26:54.840
January and February and March were going
to be completely immaterial to the buyer's sense

2047
02:26:54.879 --> 02:26:58.399
of what they were purchasing. I
don't know. I get the idea that

2048
02:26:58.399 --> 02:27:01.319
they wanted WW out of their hand
as soon as possible, but that they

2049
02:27:01.360 --> 02:27:05.040
want low rated programming on their stations, I don't think so. I don't

2050
02:27:05.079 --> 02:27:11.879
know. That one really confuses me. That is weird, Like, yeah,

2051
02:27:11.000 --> 02:27:13.360
I don't know, if you fall
out of the top fifteen, you

2052
02:27:13.399 --> 02:27:18.600
ain't shit. How about that?
In cable at the time, especially back

2053
02:27:18.639 --> 02:27:20.920
then. Yeah, I was wont
to say back back then for sure.

2054
02:27:20.600 --> 02:27:24.159
And as I said, despite all
the representations in their in house publication and

2055
02:27:24.159 --> 02:27:28.799
the messaging here on TV that Eric
Bischoff is back in control the diffusion deals

2056
02:27:28.799 --> 02:27:35.040
announced in January, the WW magazine
is saying, and I quote this is

2057
02:27:35.079 --> 02:27:37.440
in an article about Rick Steiner.
It didn't take long for the dogface Gremlin

2058
02:27:37.479 --> 02:27:39.760
to prove he still had it,
defeeding the franchise Shane Douglas to win the

2059
02:27:39.840 --> 02:27:43.719
United States title in February. What
seedl Stender's comeback was the return of good

2060
02:27:43.719 --> 02:27:50.479
friend Eric Bischoff to the role of
WCW president in January. Now, how

2061
02:27:50.479 --> 02:27:54.120
can you be the WCW president and
yet not work for WCW. Let's hear

2062
02:27:54.239 --> 02:27:58.680
Eric talk about it. Do you
remember were you at this show? No,

2063
02:28:00.559 --> 02:28:05.760
were you in any way in creative
Did you get some sort of a

2064
02:28:05.760 --> 02:28:09.520
script or a run sheet or anything? At this point, I got a

2065
02:28:09.559 --> 02:28:11.680
run sheet, you know. I
wanted to know what was going on,

2066
02:28:13.079 --> 02:28:20.319
not from a creative you know,
approval process, you know perspective. I

2067
02:28:20.399 --> 02:28:26.360
just wanted to be aware. I
had given some general direction to Ed Ferrara,

2068
02:28:26.559 --> 02:28:31.200
who was still there and a couple
other people who were involved, but

2069
02:28:31.559 --> 02:28:37.079
it was just like, don't do
anything stupid. You know, as long

2070
02:28:37.120 --> 02:28:41.559
as you don't do anything really freaking
stupid, it doesn't really matter because we

2071
02:28:41.639 --> 02:28:46.879
knew we were going to reboot anyway, and the hope was by the time

2072
02:28:46.920 --> 02:28:52.920
we rebooted and the way we rebooted, that people will pretty much have forgotten

2073
02:28:52.959 --> 02:28:56.360
about everything that had happened over the
last six or twelve months. So as

2074
02:28:56.399 --> 02:29:01.479
long as they weren't doing anything really
stupid. I didn't really care, and

2075
02:29:01.520 --> 02:29:05.319
I wasn't involved. I didn't want
to be involved. It wasn't appropriate for

2076
02:29:05.360 --> 02:29:09.159
me to be involved. I wasn't
an employee at the time. I wasn't

2077
02:29:09.200 --> 02:29:13.840
really I was even an independent contractor
at the time. I just were you

2078
02:29:13.879 --> 02:29:20.239
doing managing the acquisition process? More
than anything else? Was he ever doing

2079
02:29:20.319 --> 02:29:24.559
anything? Because it's he wasn't.
How are you gonna how are you going

2080
02:29:24.600 --> 02:29:30.159
to have your in house magazine saying
your WW president and say that you had

2081
02:29:30.280 --> 02:29:33.399
no contract at all? Like how
does that work? Like why are they

2082
02:29:33.399 --> 02:29:37.360
saying that? I don't know,
Maybe I'm a mark for the magazine,

2083
02:29:39.239 --> 02:29:43.319
no fucking anty, but I was
I don't know. I just you know,

2084
02:29:43.360 --> 02:29:46.239
I'm just pointing these things out.
Yeah, yeah, let's lean in

2085
02:29:46.239 --> 02:29:50.239
a little more into that. Let's
and I've always wanted an excuse to do

2086
02:29:50.280 --> 02:29:54.639
this. WCW magazine in the last
three months of two thousand and one are

2087
02:29:54.680 --> 02:29:58.079
fucking fascinating to me personally. And
the last magazine comes out in May,

2088
02:29:58.280 --> 02:30:03.239
way after the company closes. That's
the final addition to hit. Kevin Eck,

2089
02:30:03.280 --> 02:30:05.799
who was a writer of Baltimore's Son
and who went on to be on

2090
02:30:05.840 --> 02:30:09.879
the creative team of WWF and Ring
of Honor and others, was hired as

2091
02:30:11.000 --> 02:30:15.319
ww magazine editor and just transformed the
publication. I subscribed to it at the

2092
02:30:15.319 --> 02:30:18.600
time, and I was just so
blown away by how he reconstituted it as

2093
02:30:18.680 --> 02:30:24.280
something halfway in house promotional magazine like
WWF would do and they like they used

2094
02:30:24.280 --> 02:30:28.360
to do, and a shoot magazine. You know that you would You could

2095
02:30:28.440 --> 02:30:31.799
read these interviews, and almost all
the interviews weren't about what they were doing

2096
02:30:31.840 --> 02:30:35.000
in the ring and on television,
but they were about, you know,

2097
02:30:35.000 --> 02:30:37.280
where they stood in their careers,
how negotiations were going, how they felt

2098
02:30:37.280 --> 02:30:41.760
about their creative direction. Like it
was so cool. It was like really

2099
02:30:41.799 --> 02:30:45.959
like a beat on what guys who
were really thinking and doing. There's a

2100
02:30:45.959 --> 02:30:48.719
great multi part, well multi page
Hulk Cogan interview when he came back in

2101
02:30:48.760 --> 02:30:52.920
two thousand under the Bischoff Russou regime
that we talked about on the episodes of

2102
02:30:52.920 --> 02:30:56.399
Bash at the Beach two thousand,
where he really lays out the closest you'll

2103
02:30:56.440 --> 02:31:00.040
get to his true feelings about things. I mean, you have to be

2104
02:31:00.159 --> 02:31:03.760
a little skeptical because it's ww's in
house publication, but it was pretty clear

2105
02:31:03.760 --> 02:31:05.120
that Kevin Eck was given the reins
to just make the whole thing a shoot

2106
02:31:05.159 --> 02:31:09.000
deal. There was another magazine in
the newstands at the time called Wow.

2107
02:31:09.079 --> 02:31:11.879
Do you remember Wow Magazine? Yes? I do still laughter put it out

2108
02:31:13.000 --> 02:31:16.399
and it was basically an attempt to
do like a newsletter style shoot coverage of

2109
02:31:16.399 --> 02:31:20.680
wrestling on a mainstream, glossy magazine
during the Attitude era. There was actually,

2110
02:31:20.719 --> 02:31:24.479
you know, publishers willing to put
that out there and the newsstands willing

2111
02:31:24.520 --> 02:31:26.159
to carry it. It didn't last
very long, but it was the same

2112
02:31:26.200 --> 02:31:30.159
thing. It was all shoot coverage. It was all guys shooting in the

2113
02:31:30.520 --> 02:31:33.799
in the interviews, it was there
was no storyline really at all, like

2114
02:31:33.840 --> 02:31:39.399
your traditional aftermacs were and so you
know there was a songing at the time

2115
02:31:39.399 --> 02:31:43.639
that yes, Ed Ferraro was sort
of the titular like creative director at the

2116
02:31:43.639 --> 02:31:46.840
time. He was still hanging around, having been having come in with Vince

2117
02:31:46.879 --> 02:31:48.239
Russo. Of course in nineteen ninety
nine they had a falling out when he

2118
02:31:48.239 --> 02:31:52.719
stuck around when Rousseau went home,
and for a very short period of time

2119
02:31:52.719 --> 02:31:56.200
at Ferraro was basically the booker of
WCW at least the head writer. Ricky

2120
02:31:56.200 --> 02:31:58.600
Santana, who was a venitor of
the business, who I think had a

2121
02:31:58.639 --> 02:32:03.120
good relationship with John y Ace was
at WW at the time was also had

2122
02:32:03.120 --> 02:32:07.159
some booking responsibilities, as did johnny
Ace himself. And so we get to

2123
02:32:07.440 --> 02:32:11.719
because of this, flip through the
pages again and find a piece that Ed

2124
02:32:11.760 --> 02:32:18.559
Ferrara himself penned for WCW Magazine talking
about his vision, which is so delicious

2125
02:32:18.559 --> 02:32:22.799
with WCW having fucking eight weeks left
to live by the time this thing hit

2126
02:32:22.840 --> 02:32:26.680
newstands. But I invite you,
boss to please retrieve the scan I've provided

2127
02:32:26.719 --> 02:32:33.399
to you. Ferrara WW mag And
let's hear from the guy who was conceptualizing

2128
02:32:33.399 --> 02:32:37.879
where the product was heading around this
time of WCW greed and what could have

2129
02:32:37.959 --> 02:32:43.319
been. I'm very fascinated by the
whole what could have been of two thousand

2130
02:32:43.360 --> 02:32:50.600
and one WCW. So let's hear
it back to basics, making it matter.

2131
02:32:52.280 --> 02:32:58.600
Okay, this is my first so
oh wait, okay, so this

2132
02:32:58.680 --> 02:33:03.879
is my first column for WSW magazine. I really want these pages to make

2133
02:33:03.879 --> 02:33:07.920
a difference in this magazine. I
want everyone who reads my ramblings to be

2134
02:33:09.000 --> 02:33:15.360
immediately overcome with the desire to hit
every newsstand, drug store and magazine rack

2135
02:33:15.440 --> 02:33:18.799
with a within a five hundred mile
radius of their home and compulsively gobble up

2136
02:33:20.000 --> 02:33:26.520
every last issue. Brother, they
will wait thirty days of sheer, agony

2137
02:33:26.600 --> 02:33:30.760
and torture, I assure you,
for next month's issue to hit the stands,

2138
02:33:30.959 --> 02:33:35.840
when they eagerly will repeat the process. The circulation numbers for WSW magazine

2139
02:33:35.000 --> 02:33:41.719
quickly will surpass Time Newsweek and weekly
World News combined. So he's got a

2140
02:33:41.760 --> 02:33:48.239
sense of humor, yes, indeed, or does he? It's all up

2141
02:33:48.280 --> 02:33:52.159
to me. But how to go
about it? I could tell graphic tales

2142
02:33:52.159 --> 02:33:58.040
of sordid intrigue and insatiable lust that
would make the editors of Penthouse Forum want

2143
02:33:58.120 --> 02:34:01.239
to rush to the nearest convent,
and for sake, they're previously shallow lives.

2144
02:34:03.280 --> 02:34:07.559
Could transcrib the interview I conducted with
the gentle mister Rogers in which I

2145
02:34:07.559 --> 02:34:11.040
got him to admit that he visited
the quote Land of Make Believe one time

2146
02:34:11.120 --> 02:34:16.680
too many in the nineteen seventies and
now has a serious jones for owl owl

2147
02:34:16.719 --> 02:34:20.639
puppets and toy trolley's. This guy
is just what the wrestling business needs.

2148
02:34:20.920 --> 02:34:26.319
Yes, indeed, and I'm so
glad he was deputized to run ww's creative

2149
02:34:26.319 --> 02:34:28.600
at this point in time. Fucking
my fucking favorite guy in the world.

2150
02:34:31.520 --> 02:34:35.799
I could promise and deliver actual death
scene photographs of the late great Chris Farley,

2151
02:34:37.440 --> 02:34:41.559
shocking, unexpected, unpredictable. The
masses will eat it up like candy,

2152
02:34:41.920 --> 02:34:46.639
and our circulation will go through the
roof. But then what do I

2153
02:34:46.680 --> 02:34:52.680
do next month? So all that's
for one month? I see hill?

2154
02:34:54.239 --> 02:34:56.719
Is he describing Vince Russo's writing style? Is that what he's doing? Penthouse

2155
02:34:56.799 --> 02:35:05.840
Forum articles, Uh, mister Rogers
on drugs and uh and and photographs of

2156
02:35:05.879 --> 02:35:11.239
Chris Farley in just issue number one. Okay, uh more of the same.

2157
02:35:11.280 --> 02:35:15.840
I guess once you get locked into
a habit of continually keeping everyone off

2158
02:35:16.000 --> 02:35:18.760
guard, it's hard to go back. These areiled, these are availed shots

2159
02:35:18.760 --> 02:35:24.639
at russo gee, I'll say Jesus. Then again, if you continually push

2160
02:35:24.680 --> 02:35:33.280
the envelope, nothing is shocking like
unexpected or unpredictable. It just becomes more

2161
02:35:33.319 --> 02:35:37.040
of the same and the audience gets
jaded rather quickly. I started out in

2162
02:35:37.079 --> 02:35:39.520
this business, like ninety nine percent
of everyone else. I was a fan

2163
02:35:41.159 --> 02:35:43.600
as a kid. I love staying
up all hours of the night, mom

2164
02:35:43.639 --> 02:35:48.079
and dad snug in their beds,
assuming of the same of me watching hulking

2165
02:35:48.200 --> 02:35:54.840
bruisers throw each other around on various
UHF stations in the wee hours. But

2166
02:35:54.879 --> 02:35:58.840
what kept me coming back week after
week, practically in my entire life surprises

2167
02:36:01.280 --> 02:36:07.319
the shocks quote. I can't believe
so and so sold out his partner and

2168
02:36:07.399 --> 02:36:09.959
turn on him during that match.
There's going to be a huge war between

2169
02:36:11.000 --> 02:36:13.520
those two now, or did you
see what's his name stand up to the

2170
02:36:13.600 --> 02:36:18.639
huge evil monster. I didn't think
anybody ever would let alone that guy,

2171
02:36:20.200 --> 02:36:24.639
I want to say, and you
know what, I didn't like him before,

2172
02:36:24.719 --> 02:36:28.879
but I think what's his name was
actually would actually be the guy,

2173
02:36:30.000 --> 02:36:33.840
the one guy who can take the
monster out so simple, get so effective.

2174
02:36:35.719 --> 02:36:39.799
Pass forward to the turn of the
millennium. The wrestling business knows it's

2175
02:36:39.840 --> 02:36:45.159
the shocks and surprises that keep fans
coming back for more. So what would

2176
02:36:45.200 --> 02:36:48.799
be the natural progression? You guessed
it? More shocks and more surprises.

2177
02:36:48.319 --> 02:36:54.239
Those memorable moments that would occur only
once every few months when I was a

2178
02:36:54.319 --> 02:37:00.399
kid, now happened regularly, nightly, something sometimes, but then something happened.

2179
02:37:01.479 --> 02:37:05.920
The shocks and surprises failed to shock
and surprise anymore. Ever been totally

2180
02:37:05.920 --> 02:37:09.879
caught off guard by a surprise party? Remember the adrenaline rush, the overwhelming

2181
02:37:11.000 --> 02:37:15.200
feeling of being cared about, the
dropping to your knees and clutching your heart

2182
02:37:15.280 --> 02:37:20.200
desperately trying to assess if you did
or did not skid your white eies in

2183
02:37:20.239 --> 02:37:26.360
front of thirty or so your closest
friend. No, I've never been concerned

2184
02:37:26.360 --> 02:37:33.319
that I shit my pants in front
of my friends. On the other hand,

2185
02:37:33.360 --> 02:37:39.520
have you ever been tipped off intentionally
or not about a surprise party headed

2186
02:37:39.559 --> 02:37:43.239
your way? If you know a
quote surprise is coming. You'll get no

2187
02:37:43.399 --> 02:37:46.719
visceral enjoyment out of it. It
just happens. That's where we were for

2188
02:37:46.760 --> 02:37:50.120
a while, and we could do
you, and the surprises and shocks started

2189
02:37:50.120 --> 02:37:54.360
to become meaningless. When you've got
nothing but shocks and surprises, that nothing

2190
02:37:54.399 --> 02:37:58.879
is shocking or surprising. How much
do you want to bet I can fit

2191
02:37:58.879 --> 02:38:05.200
in another use of the words shocking
and surprising in my article here is that

2192
02:38:05.280 --> 02:38:09.040
his words of yours. Oh my
god. It's like the concept that without

2193
02:38:09.040 --> 02:38:13.760
evil there could be no good,
or without noise, you would never appreciate

2194
02:38:13.879 --> 02:38:18.040
silence. I tell you what,
I definitely appreciate the sounds this fucking thing.

2195
02:38:18.040 --> 02:38:20.600
I remember when I was a kid. If one wrestler used a chair

2196
02:38:20.600 --> 02:38:24.959
on another, he might as well
pull out a forty four caliber pistol and

2197
02:38:26.159 --> 02:38:30.680
shot the guy in the face.
It was that shocking and terrible because only

2198
02:38:30.680 --> 02:38:37.360
in the rarest and most extreme circumstances
did it happen. Just five years ago,

2199
02:38:37.399 --> 02:38:41.280
a wrestler going through a table was
tantamount to being a pedestrian caught in

2200
02:38:41.319 --> 02:38:43.799
the middle of an eighteen car pile
up. It didn't come back from that,

2201
02:38:43.879 --> 02:38:48.639
at least not for a while nowadays
I believe Stock and Home Depot and

2202
02:38:48.680 --> 02:38:54.120
Staples has shot through the roof thanks
to the efforts of professional wrestling in keeping

2203
02:38:54.159 --> 02:38:58.079
the pressure of the pressure board,
table and folding chair aisles in those stores

2204
02:38:58.159 --> 02:39:07.639
continually Aaron. But the problem is
it just doesn't mean anything anymore. When

2205
02:39:07.639 --> 02:39:11.920
you have a showyeah, right,
When you have a show in which eight

2206
02:39:11.959 --> 02:39:16.120
wrestlers use chairs on each other at
various points, and another five quote ride

2207
02:39:16.159 --> 02:39:22.319
the pressure board broncho, it all
ceases to have impact impact DNA. Right,

2208
02:39:22.479 --> 02:39:26.360
that's the key. I'm not saying. We never need to see another

2209
02:39:26.440 --> 02:39:31.680
chair swung, another table reduced to
splinters, another shock, or another surprise.

2210
02:39:31.760 --> 02:39:35.760
There are those words again. But
we need to realize that we've got

2211
02:39:35.799 --> 02:39:41.040
to pick our spots. We need
to make everything mean something. If you

2212
02:39:41.040 --> 02:39:45.680
don't see a table or chair used
for a month or two or three,

2213
02:39:45.879 --> 02:39:48.280
I guarantee you that the next time
you do, you will react it on

2214
02:39:48.399 --> 02:39:54.680
a gut level. We need to
keep a sense of stasis, which the

2215
02:39:54.719 --> 02:40:01.639
American Heritage Dictionary defines as quote a
condition of balance among various forces, as

2216
02:40:01.680 --> 02:40:07.920
the rule, not the exception.
That way, when we do want to

2217
02:40:07.920 --> 02:40:11.959
get a rise out of the fans. When we want to shock them,

2218
02:40:13.520 --> 02:40:18.159
swerve them, surprise them. They'll
all feel like they just walk into their

2219
02:40:18.159 --> 02:40:22.520
favorite restaurant only to be completely caught
off guard by fifty of their closest friends

2220
02:40:22.559 --> 02:40:30.799
screaming surprise. That's what makes it
fun, just as long as you don't,

2221
02:40:31.280 --> 02:40:39.840
you know, skid the whities.
Excelsior Ed ferraras the head writer for

2222
02:40:39.920 --> 02:40:48.280
Nitron Thunder contact added by email.
That's hilarious. I mean, fucking have

2223
02:40:48.440 --> 02:40:52.559
the email out there. Well,
he wants fan feedback, I guess,

2224
02:40:52.079 --> 02:40:56.799
I mean, what is that?
What an idiot? First of all,

2225
02:40:56.600 --> 02:40:58.799
let's get this out of the way. Yes, there's a picture of his

2226
02:40:58.879 --> 02:41:03.000
face. Thoughts on what you see. He's going to zoom in on that

2227
02:41:03.120 --> 02:41:07.079
for a moment here, just so
I can really repulse myself for this fucking

2228
02:41:07.840 --> 02:41:13.000
idiotic fuck at that idiot, I
was wrong with the guy. Fucking m

2229
02:41:15.040 --> 02:41:16.959
it looks like a like a like
a like a high school literature teacher.

2230
02:41:18.680 --> 02:41:22.680
Well, I want to fucking I
mean he was gonna save it. I

2231
02:41:22.719 --> 02:41:26.600
mean didn't he and and didn't he
have like crazy ass braids or dreadlocks that

2232
02:41:26.760 --> 02:41:31.319
way? Later? W w t
NA, Yeah, I mean bad,

2233
02:41:31.639 --> 02:41:35.680
Like, I mean, what the
fuck, dude? And he's a screenwriter.

2234
02:41:35.760 --> 02:41:39.760
He teaches screenwriting, right, yes, he does. Fucking guy,

2235
02:41:39.840 --> 02:41:43.120
I think he was even an Hevies
judge once, if you can believe that?

2236
02:41:43.440 --> 02:41:46.440
Is he really? Yeah? Is
he really? Yes? I remember

2237
02:41:46.520 --> 02:41:54.200
him being in the book a little
booklet. Oh my god, so fucking

2238
02:41:54.600 --> 02:41:58.040
Jesus Christ. I mean, but
like, like, are you inspired by

2239
02:41:58.040 --> 02:42:01.040
his message? Though not at all? Oh god, what are you?

2240
02:42:01.120 --> 02:42:07.079
What are you doing to me here? Oh? What he looks you know,

2241
02:42:07.440 --> 02:42:15.200
like he looks like John Travolta on
that movie Battlefield Earth. Yeah,

2242
02:42:18.319 --> 02:42:24.879
that's exactly what he looks like in
this fucking picture. Oh and another Oh

2243
02:42:24.920 --> 02:42:28.639
my god, what a what a
pervert? What a pervert? Be nice

2244
02:42:28.680 --> 02:42:31.760
to the guy, this guy.
What does he try to say in this

2245
02:42:31.879 --> 02:42:35.360
article? What do you know?
What do you think? What he's what?

2246
02:42:37.440 --> 02:42:41.639
I mean, he takes two pages
to basically say less is more,

2247
02:42:41.879 --> 02:42:46.239
That's what he's fucking saying, pretty
much, you know, like okay,

2248
02:42:46.559 --> 02:42:50.799
yeah, duh, like we're gonna
have we're gonna have less surprises, we

2249
02:42:50.879 --> 02:42:54.319
have less surprises. Which where do
I sign up? I mean it's like,

2250
02:42:56.079 --> 02:43:03.479
yeah, it's not that I saw
the meat listen wrestling. Yeah,

2251
02:43:03.840 --> 02:43:09.520
I mean, but okay, every
TV show has surprises. That's what makes

2252
02:43:09.559 --> 02:43:16.440
TV shows work, you know,
That's what make you know you want to

2253
02:43:16.440 --> 02:43:20.200
come back and watch a show because
they're leaving on some kind of a cliffhanger,

2254
02:43:20.040 --> 02:43:24.959
which is usually a surprise in some
fashion. You know, like that's

2255
02:43:26.079 --> 02:43:31.840
that's that's the way it all works. So I don't know what. I

2256
02:43:31.879 --> 02:43:35.000
really don't know what he's saying about
that basics. What he's basically saying is

2257
02:43:35.040 --> 02:43:39.520
anything that ever annoyed him about Vinsruso
he's not going to do, and he

2258
02:43:39.559 --> 02:43:45.719
assumes that it annoyed all of us
too, Well, you annoy me at

2259
02:43:45.840 --> 02:43:50.639
FRA, right, what about what
the iteration for that possibility here? He

2260
02:43:50.760 --> 02:43:54.440
was gonna bring up Chow was gonna
bring in John Muse, who's a well

2261
02:43:54.479 --> 02:43:58.239
read guy in the business, to
book the cruiserweight division separately from the heavyweight

2262
02:43:58.239 --> 02:44:01.639
division, which I thought was an
interesting idea own two five Live. Yeah,

2263
02:44:01.639 --> 02:44:05.079
pretty yeah, exactly. We saw
well that went went in practice over

2264
02:44:05.079 --> 02:44:09.760
at the E. But yeah,
this is the guy that I don't know.

2265
02:44:09.920 --> 02:44:11.440
Bischoff kind of frames him as like
a lame duck guy just writing the

2266
02:44:11.479 --> 02:44:16.000
TV while they prepare the relaunch,
and it seem like Johnny Ace would be

2267
02:44:16.079 --> 02:44:20.520
much more the booker than this guy. But here he is in the magazine,

2268
02:44:20.520 --> 02:44:24.200
you know, say, a magazine
that's extolling the arrival of Eric Bischoff.

2269
02:44:24.360 --> 02:44:28.719
So that's that's the mindset. I
don't I'd be willing to bet that

2270
02:44:28.840 --> 02:44:33.840
a lot of what ed Farar says
was parroting what Bischoff's vision would have been,

2271
02:44:33.120 --> 02:44:37.840
as somebody who was very in many
ways developed a deep distaste for Russo's

2272
02:44:37.879 --> 02:44:41.879
style of writing wrestling television and didn't
hesitate to tell him and kind of purposely

2273
02:44:41.920 --> 02:44:46.079
brought the relationship to a crashing halt
by redlining a lot of the things that

2274
02:44:46.159 --> 02:44:52.000
Russeau wanted to do for Nitro when
offering nothing you know, constructive in return,

2275
02:44:52.120 --> 02:44:56.959
just endlessly frustrating Russeau and famously threw
the phone against the wall when Bischoff

2276
02:44:56.000 --> 02:44:58.399
just told him something sucks and I've
got nothing better to replace it with.

2277
02:44:58.440 --> 02:45:03.520
Just know that this sucks. He
doesn't want to hear that because it's true.

2278
02:45:03.399 --> 02:45:07.600
Yeah, but that's that. So
now we move to another bit of

2279
02:45:07.639 --> 02:45:13.159
e themera from the Dying Days of
w CW magazine. Uh, this is

2280
02:45:13.200 --> 02:45:16.959
boss if you could pull it up
the WW mag Bischoff interview. So this

2281
02:45:16.040 --> 02:45:20.399
is a real deep look at where
Bischoff psyche was in terms of what he

2282
02:45:20.440 --> 02:45:24.760
wanted to tell loyal fans in the
pages of the re in house magazine.

2283
02:45:24.879 --> 02:45:26.280
All right, this is, by
the way, the guy who has no

2284
02:45:26.360 --> 02:45:31.639
contract with according to Bischoff, with
the organization contract has a six page spread

2285
02:45:31.639 --> 02:45:37.559
and in depth interview in the company
magazine. And this is this is by

2286
02:45:37.559 --> 02:45:41.840
somebody who does not work for WSW. Meanwhile, the headline is Bischoff's return

2287
02:45:41.159 --> 02:45:48.239
energizes WCW. She's all fine and
consistent, yep and normal. And what

2288
02:45:48.520 --> 02:45:54.000
you know, there is considerably more
I'll hit I'll hit this, and then

2289
02:45:54.159 --> 02:45:56.799
we'll do the Q and A with
you as Bischoff. All right, this

2290
02:45:56.840 --> 02:46:01.520
is by Kevin Eck. There is
considerably more lang going on in the WCW

2291
02:46:01.639 --> 02:46:05.040
locker room these days. No disco
hasn't been fired. It's even better than

2292
02:46:05.040 --> 02:46:09.680
that. Eric Bischoff has returned as
president of the company, and his presence

2293
02:46:09.680 --> 02:46:13.319
and all that it represents is certainly
caused for joviality. Since Bischoff's return WCW

2294
02:46:13.440 --> 02:46:16.959
has become a fun place to work
again for the majority of the wrestlers.

2295
02:46:16.159 --> 02:46:20.440
That's not to say they weren't enjoying
their jobs, but the uncertainty regarding the

2296
02:46:20.440 --> 02:46:24.000
future of the company was weighing on
everyone. Oh yeah, that's in the

2297
02:46:24.079 --> 02:46:30.000
rear view. The announcement of an
agreement to sell the majority of the company

2298
02:46:30.040 --> 02:46:33.399
to Fusiant Media Ventures, with Bischoff
reclaiming the position of president he held from

2299
02:46:33.440 --> 02:46:35.920
nineteen ninety three to nineteen ninety nine, put an end to months of anxiety.

2300
02:46:37.040 --> 02:46:39.600
The wrestlers are relieved to know someone
is running the ship, and the

2301
02:46:39.040 --> 02:46:43.360
choice of captains couldn't have been better. Bischoff by far has proved to be

2302
02:46:43.399 --> 02:46:48.239
the most successful successful executive in WCW
history. I remember my initial reaction when

2303
02:46:48.280 --> 02:46:52.079
I heard Bischoff was named executive vice
president of WCW nineteen ninety three. The

2304
02:46:52.120 --> 02:46:54.719
guy with the perfect hair, who
had been an American Wrestling Association announcer before

2305
02:46:54.799 --> 02:46:58.399
joining WCW was a B team announcer
is running the company. How the hell

2306
02:46:58.440 --> 02:47:01.280
did that happen. What I didn't
know at the time was that I had

2307
02:47:01.520 --> 02:47:07.239
unfairly lumped Bischoff into the annoying group
of mannekin like announcers that were turning up

2308
02:47:07.239 --> 02:47:09.920
everywhere in sports entertainment. Bischoff,
however, proved he was more than just

2309
02:47:09.959 --> 02:47:13.200
another pretty face aspiring to move into
management. He had taken the time to

2310
02:47:13.280 --> 02:47:18.559
learn the intricacies of the business,
especially television production. Moreover, Bischoff had

2311
02:47:18.600 --> 02:47:22.879
the ambition, vision, and intestinal
fortitude necessary to lead to the company.

2312
02:47:22.120 --> 02:47:26.639
Bischoff came into power in WDCW at
a time when the wrestling industry was in

2313
02:47:26.680 --> 02:47:28.879
a slump. Seeds of a turnaround
were planted when Hulk Hogan, the biggest

2314
02:47:28.879 --> 02:47:33.719
star and professional wrestling history and the
flagship of the rival were Wrestling Federation for

2315
02:47:33.719 --> 02:47:37.239
a decades, signed with WCW.
The importance of acquiring Hogan can't be emphasized

2316
02:47:37.360 --> 02:47:41.600
enough. As well, there's planting
a seed. What can tell Bischoff's back

2317
02:47:41.600 --> 02:47:46.079
in power. Yeah, I'm right. The importance of acquiring Hogan can't be

2318
02:47:46.120 --> 02:47:50.639
emphasized enough. As the most recognizable
personality in the business, Hogan made WCW

2319
02:47:50.719 --> 02:47:54.280
the place to be. Bischoff,
though, knew there was one advantage the

2320
02:47:54.360 --> 02:47:58.440
WWF still had over WDCW, a
weekly primetime TV show. In a move

2321
02:47:58.479 --> 02:48:01.879
that he knew would make or break
his career. Bischof convinced Ted Turner to

2322
02:48:01.920 --> 02:48:05.799
launch Nitro, convinced, Yeah,
he convinced, and Ted Turner fucking suggested

2323
02:48:05.799 --> 02:48:11.079
it to launch Nitro and position it
head to head against the WWF's popular Monday

2324
02:48:11.120 --> 02:48:15.159
night Raw wrestling. Critics panned the
decision, saying Nitro and Bischoff were destined

2325
02:48:15.159 --> 02:48:18.719
to fail against the incumbent WWF.
The critics couldn't have been more wrong.

2326
02:48:18.040 --> 02:48:22.159
Knowing he needed an energetic, fast
paced show to complement the abundant star power

2327
02:48:22.159 --> 02:48:26.440
in WCW, Bischoff recruited great workers
from all over the globe. While Raw

2328
02:48:26.479 --> 02:48:31.079
had become stale and predictable, Nitro
was cutting edge. The ratings battle was

2329
02:48:31.079 --> 02:48:35.319
a stalemate for several months until Bischoff
lured Kevin Nash and Scott Hall from the

2330
02:48:35.399 --> 02:48:39.200
WWF and created the nWo. WCW
went on to defeat the WWF and the

2331
02:48:39.280 --> 02:48:43.360
ratings for eighty three consecutive weeks.
Bischoff did more than knock the ww F

2332
02:48:43.360 --> 02:48:48.120
from its perchase the top wrestling organization
in the country. By forcing the WWF

2333
02:48:48.159 --> 02:48:50.840
to improve its product in order to
compete, he helped the entire industry reach

2334
02:48:50.959 --> 02:48:56.639
unprecedented heights. This is great.
Bischoff left WCW in nineteen ninety nine,

2335
02:48:56.680 --> 02:49:00.959
saying he was burned out. The
company hasn't been the same without him.

2336
02:49:01.840 --> 02:49:05.959
He left WW in two thousand.
He came back in two thousands and hasn't

2337
02:49:05.959 --> 02:49:09.200
been the same without him. He
was there like six months before this,

2338
02:49:09.959 --> 02:49:13.079
but after more than a year on
the sideline, he is back as focused

2339
02:49:13.079 --> 02:49:16.959
and motivated as ever. I can
help but smile thinking about the possibilities.

2340
02:49:18.520 --> 02:49:22.920
After months of rumors and speculation,
the landscape in sports entertainment officially changed on

2341
02:49:22.959 --> 02:49:26.920
Thursday, January eleventh. On that
date, it was announced that Turner Broadcasting

2342
02:49:26.959 --> 02:49:31.280
System In Corporated had entered into an
agreement to sell WCW Difusiant Media Ventures,

2343
02:49:31.360 --> 02:49:37.719
an integrated media company. What I
like that? What do you say integrated?

2344
02:49:37.760 --> 02:49:41.120
Pal your integrations? How about doing
order? Is? Do you integrate?

2345
02:49:43.079 --> 02:49:46.079
How do you integrate? Where do
you integrate? Right? Show me

2346
02:49:46.120 --> 02:49:52.239
your integrations? Show me how you
integration properties. The proposed deal also signified

2347
02:49:52.239 --> 02:49:56.319
the return of Eric Bischoff's WCW president. Bischoff previously had served as w W

2348
02:49:56.440 --> 02:49:58.959
president from nineteen ninety three to nineteen
ninety nine. During his tenure, wc

2349
02:50:00.120 --> 02:50:01.840
W signed some of the biggest names
in the industry in launch Nitro, which

2350
02:50:01.920 --> 02:50:05.920
was the unisputed winner of the Monday
Night ratings battle with the World Wrestling Federation

2351
02:50:05.959 --> 02:50:09.200
for almost two years. After stepping
down in nineteen ninety nine, Bischoff returned

2352
02:50:09.200 --> 02:50:11.920
to briefly last April to work with
Vince Russo on the creative team. Ww

2353
02:50:13.040 --> 02:50:16.719
magazine caught up with Bischoff for an
exclusive interview the day the sale agreement was

2354
02:50:16.719 --> 02:50:20.159
announced. He talked about the goals
of the company, his abbreviated return last

2355
02:50:20.239 --> 02:50:22.719
April, and the possibility of working
with Hulcocin. So we have the distinct

2356
02:50:22.719 --> 02:50:28.280
honor here, boss brother to get
into Bischof's head at the time instead of

2357
02:50:28.399 --> 02:50:31.719
in retrospect, why why don't always
say they caught up with them? It's

2358
02:50:31.760 --> 02:50:37.719
just like a magazine turned a phrase
to suggest that, like they were out

2359
02:50:37.920 --> 02:50:43.040
doing something and we came to them
and got, you know, like a

2360
02:50:43.200 --> 02:50:48.360
minute of their time, as opposed
to they were on a tour cynically trying

2361
02:50:48.440 --> 02:50:50.639
to get into the press, which
is what it really was. So I

2362
02:50:50.680 --> 02:50:54.559
hate you caught up makes it like
we had a relationship, you know,

2363
02:50:54.600 --> 02:50:58.719
we just caught him. He was
doing stuff like this wasn't it wasn't playing,

2364
02:50:58.799 --> 02:51:01.479
This wasn't pushed on us. We're
not just the stenographers here. We

2365
02:51:01.520 --> 02:51:03.840
start to line and we just happened
to be in the same place at the

2366
02:51:03.920 --> 02:51:07.120
right time. Weren't you glad to
we caught up with them and you got

2367
02:51:07.840 --> 02:51:11.280
we got caught. Question? How
does it feel to be back in control

2368
02:51:11.319 --> 02:51:16.440
of WCW even though you don't work
here and don't have a contract? Odd?

2369
02:51:16.000 --> 02:51:18.159
Oh, it was a strange feeling
to pull up in front of this

2370
02:51:18.200 --> 02:51:24.120
building again because of all my history
here over a better or worse anyways,

2371
02:51:24.239 --> 02:51:26.639
this has been the most important part
of my life over the last ten years.

2372
02:51:28.360 --> 02:51:31.120
It was an odd realization to pull
up here at ten minutes to nine

2373
02:51:31.120 --> 02:51:35.479
on a Thursday morning, knowing that
I was going to sit in front of

2374
02:51:35.479 --> 02:51:39.479
people whom I've known, in some
cases almost ten years or more and explained

2375
02:51:39.479 --> 02:51:43.040
to them that I was going to
be a part of a team that was

2376
02:51:43.079 --> 02:51:46.360
acquiring the company. Rumors that you
were buying the company had been running rampant

2377
02:51:46.360 --> 02:51:50.879
for months. When did you first
inquire about it? Well, there's a

2378
02:51:50.920 --> 02:51:54.520
million rumors out there. You know, ninety nine and nine tenths percent of

2379
02:51:54.559 --> 02:51:58.239
all the proven to be false.
The factory, the rumor factories a tendency

2380
02:51:58.280 --> 02:52:03.559
to throws much mud up against the
wall as possible. I've been trying to

2381
02:52:03.600 --> 02:52:09.159
connect those dots to come up with
a story open until today, maybe late

2382
02:52:09.280 --> 02:52:13.200
yesterday. And Fusion's name was never
part of any of the experts predictions.

2383
02:52:13.280 --> 02:52:18.879
So we've done a pretty good job
of keeping it quiet in terms of how

2384
02:52:18.920 --> 02:52:22.799
long this process has been going on. It's really been going on since about

2385
02:52:22.879 --> 02:52:28.879
July. But I mentioned a Brad
to Brad July. They were talking about

2386
02:52:28.879 --> 02:52:33.920
selling WCW July of two thousand.
Yeah, they I suggest that Brad Siegel

2387
02:52:35.120 --> 02:52:39.879
was more concerned with that than trying
to save WCW by the midpoint of two

2388
02:52:39.920 --> 02:52:45.120
thousands. But I mentioned to Brad
last spring when I came back, and

2389
02:52:45.159 --> 02:52:50.000
I told him quite candidly during our
renegotiation process that it was going to be

2390
02:52:50.000 --> 02:52:54.760
my intention to purchase the company.
Of course, you looked at me like

2391
02:52:54.799 --> 02:52:56.440
I was nuts because of this.
At the time, I doubt there had

2392
02:52:56.440 --> 02:53:03.360
been me conversation about or thought given
to it. It became apparent to me

2393
02:53:03.399 --> 02:53:07.319
a while ago, probably going back
to late nineteen ninety eight or early nineteen

2394
02:53:07.360 --> 02:53:13.719
ninety nine, WCW was a property
really no longer fit the Turner Time Warner

2395
02:53:13.760 --> 02:53:18.680
company profile, meaning it's not part
of the core business of a company like

2396
02:53:18.760 --> 02:53:22.639
Turner or Time Warner. Since it
didn't really fit into the day to day

2397
02:53:22.680 --> 02:53:26.840
company profile, it kept running into
problems and had a difficult time growing the

2398
02:53:26.840 --> 02:53:33.000
way this particular property needs to grow. Because I was even more certain when

2399
02:53:33.000 --> 02:53:37.159
I came back briefly during the spring. I wanted to be very upfront about

2400
02:53:37.159 --> 02:53:43.239
my intentions so that when the time
came, it didn't look Machabelian in any

2401
02:53:43.239 --> 02:53:48.000
way, and it was above board
whatever that means. I mean, this

2402
02:53:48.040 --> 02:53:52.319
guy speaking in code like here,
If anyone reading this understands a fucking word

2403
02:53:52.360 --> 02:53:56.200
of that, what is the first
order of business and what are your long

2404
02:53:56.280 --> 02:54:00.719
term goals? Well, the first
order of business is to make sure this

2405
02:54:01.000 --> 02:54:05.799
thing keeps moving. This is going
to be a long rebuilding process. It's

2406
02:54:05.840 --> 02:54:11.600
evolution, not revolution, although we're
gonna keep an eye out for those revolutionary

2407
02:54:11.719 --> 02:54:16.799
kinds of opportunities and ideas, but
it's a long term plan. It's not

2408
02:54:16.840 --> 02:54:20.239
going to get fixed overnight. Immediately, the focus is on trying to shore

2409
02:54:20.319 --> 02:54:24.559
up the product. It's all so
funny because it doesn't. None of it

2410
02:54:24.840 --> 02:54:31.280
happens. It's just totally thrown in
the garbage. Trying to shore up some

2411
02:54:31.319 --> 02:54:35.920
of the creative trying to shore up
some of the talent issues that are outstanding,

2412
02:54:35.959 --> 02:54:41.079
trying to refocus on a different approach
to producing the product. In many

2413
02:54:41.120 --> 02:54:46.440
ways, it's going back to the
future, back to certain things that work

2414
02:54:46.520 --> 02:54:50.680
really well. Just just as importantly, we're looking for opportunities to reinvent this

2415
02:54:50.799 --> 02:54:56.520
business in ways that haven't been tried
before. This is about identifying the formulas

2416
02:54:56.840 --> 02:55:03.319
that we know will work and always
in the entertainment industry, but building on

2417
02:55:03.399 --> 02:55:07.479
them and compounding our success. We
need to build our stars, make them

2418
02:55:07.520 --> 02:55:11.680
feel and look and walk and talk
like stars again, getting away from what

2419
02:55:11.760 --> 02:55:15.760
I consider to be almost a backyard
wrestling field of the program. You know,

2420
02:55:15.799 --> 02:55:18.639
when a fifteen year old kid or
a fifty year old adult watches our

2421
02:55:18.680 --> 02:55:22.200
show, to them, it's a
fantasy. It's bigger than life. These

2422
02:55:22.200 --> 02:55:24.719
people are stars. We just called
WCW with this point in time, backyard

2423
02:55:24.760 --> 02:55:31.399
wrestling. You did, okay,
great positioning our talent us stars involves the

2424
02:55:31.440 --> 02:55:35.239
way they walk to the ring,
the music and the lights, the way

2425
02:55:35.280 --> 02:55:39.840
they're promoted, and the way they're
marketed in and out of the ring.

2426
02:55:39.879 --> 02:55:43.360
There's a lot that went into the
wc into making WCW the number one wrestling

2427
02:55:43.440 --> 02:55:48.840
organization in the country, and there
will be a lot going into repositioning ourselves

2428
02:55:48.879 --> 02:55:52.319
in that way. That's why I'm
so excited about Fusion. That's where the

2429
02:55:52.360 --> 02:55:58.520
expertise is that, combined hopefully with
my experience in wrestling, will allow us

2430
02:55:58.520 --> 02:56:01.559
to get there much more quickly and
it would otherwise. In terms of long

2431
02:56:01.639 --> 02:56:09.559
term, WCW is an entertainment property. In terms of long term, WCW

2432
02:56:09.639 --> 02:56:15.120
is an entertainment property. Got it
a long time ago. I went to

2433
02:56:15.159 --> 02:56:18.159
a five year strategic planning meeting and
someone asked me to come up with a

2434
02:56:18.200 --> 02:56:24.079
five year plan as to where WCW
should be as a business. The mission

2435
02:56:24.079 --> 02:56:28.399
statement back then was to build ww
into being the number one wrestling organization in

2436
02:56:28.440 --> 02:56:31.719
the country, and then to expand
our business by exploiting our assets. And

2437
02:56:31.760 --> 02:56:37.920
our assets are our talent. What
fuck is he talking about? I mean,

2438
02:56:39.600 --> 02:56:43.440
make wrestling number one by whatever metric
and then you know, take the

2439
02:56:43.520 --> 02:56:48.399
stars that are bigger and make money
off their likeness. We want exploitation,

2440
02:56:48.879 --> 02:56:56.600
yes, right, exploitation leading leading
to monetary satisfaction leading to dominance in the

2441
02:56:56.639 --> 02:57:01.520
field, the like that Chicken before
the egg though, or something like that.

2442
02:57:03.120 --> 02:57:05.399
We want to expand OCW into other
forms of entertainment, whether that be

2443
02:57:05.479 --> 02:57:11.879
animation, sitcoms, or feature films, using the strength of the brand and

2444
02:57:11.920 --> 02:57:13.760
the strength of our core assets in
order to achieve that. I don't think

2445
02:57:13.760 --> 02:57:22.639
the plan really has changed. Okay, you mentioned reinventing the business at its

2446
02:57:22.639 --> 02:57:26.079
core, though pro wrestling always has
had a basic formula. Do you think

2447
02:57:26.239 --> 02:57:28.600
WCW has been guilty in the past
year of trying to reinvent the wheel.

2448
02:57:30.000 --> 02:57:33.600
Well, if you want to call
it reinventing or experimenting, I think that's

2449
02:57:33.639 --> 02:57:37.239
true. In some cases that's necessary, you have to try something new in

2450
02:57:37.360 --> 02:57:43.000
order to find out if it'll work. In the last past six seven months

2451
02:57:43.000 --> 02:57:46.239
in particular, and really in the
last year or year and a half,

2452
02:57:46.319 --> 02:57:50.559
I've had the luxury of watching not
only this company but the business from the

2453
02:57:50.600 --> 02:57:54.680
outside looking in. My feelings haven't
changed about the business. I still believe

2454
02:57:54.719 --> 02:57:58.280
in it. Obviously, I'm probably
even more convinced that this is a big,

2455
02:57:58.360 --> 02:58:03.040
big, big business. I've had
the luxury of looking at it from

2456
02:58:03.040 --> 02:58:07.200
a different perspective, and I have
a different view of certain things. One

2457
02:58:07.200 --> 02:58:09.559
of the things that's happened here is
there's been too much of a departure from

2458
02:58:09.639 --> 02:58:18.079
basic formulas of storytelling in the effort
to try something new. It really has

2459
02:58:18.120 --> 02:58:20.520
been lost in the audience. I
don't want anybody to get the impression of

2460
02:58:20.639 --> 02:58:24.280
this is that this is business as
usual. Eric's back. That's for wymclock

2461
02:58:24.319 --> 02:58:28.600
back to nineteen ninety eight. But
certain but certain things work, and certain

2462
02:58:28.639 --> 02:58:33.680
things don't. Square wheels just never
work no matter how hard you try.

2463
02:58:35.000 --> 02:58:37.000
But we're going to experiment, and
there's a lot there's gonna be a lot

2464
02:58:37.000 --> 02:58:41.239
of success, and there's gonna be
a lot of failure. Hopefully our batting

2465
02:58:41.239 --> 02:58:43.520
average is going to be high enough
that overall we're going to be successful.

2466
02:58:46.120 --> 02:58:52.959
The fuck has he said a single
thing that no tells you what to look

2467
02:58:52.000 --> 02:58:56.239
forward to. He hasn't said a
single thing. What will your role as

2468
02:58:56.280 --> 02:58:58.840
president entail? Will you strictly be
working on the creative side, or will

2469
02:58:58.879 --> 02:59:03.760
you be making business decisions as well? It's like my role when I was

2470
02:59:03.799 --> 02:59:07.920
president ninety eight and the majority of
my time was spent on the creative issues,

2471
02:59:07.959 --> 02:59:13.040
dealing with talent, booking, product, creating, nitro law product,

2472
02:59:13.600 --> 02:59:18.680
building product, and rebuilding the pay
per view business. There were seventy five

2473
02:59:18.719 --> 02:59:22.440
percent of my time that was That
was where seventy five percent of my time

2474
02:59:22.559 --> 02:59:26.120
was spent. There are a lot
of other people who were involved on the

2475
02:59:26.120 --> 02:59:28.559
business side of it. Once again, I'll be spending my time where it's

2476
02:59:28.559 --> 02:59:33.200
best spent, and that's on the
creative side. That's where my experience is,

2477
02:59:33.239 --> 02:59:39.600
That's where my talents are. I
think relationships on the business side of

2478
02:59:39.639 --> 02:59:43.520
things. You know, Brian,
but is it at all? Yeah?

2479
02:59:43.559 --> 02:59:46.639
But yeah, Brian, but all
my partner comes from a very comes from

2480
02:59:46.719 --> 02:59:52.920
exciting business background. He's very successful
entrepreneur. He has a tremendous mind for

2481
02:59:52.920 --> 02:59:56.360
the business and has already begun to
put together a phenomenal team of people on

2482
02:59:56.399 --> 02:59:58.760
the business side that are really going
to take this franchise to a place that

2483
02:59:58.840 --> 03:00:03.760
is ever been. But Brian also
was a very creative guy, and it's

2484
03:00:03.760 --> 03:00:07.079
going to have some input on the
creative side of things. The Dolls booker

2485
03:00:09.360 --> 03:00:15.959
I'd love to hear some of his
ideas. Booker Brian Badal, You know,

2486
03:00:16.000 --> 03:00:16.920
it's going to be a team effort, but I think it's going to

2487
03:00:16.920 --> 03:00:22.680
be a situation where we both recognize
our respective skills and we're gonna spend the

2488
03:00:22.680 --> 03:00:26.520
majority of time where we can do
the most good. Will you be assuming

2489
03:00:26.559 --> 03:00:30.760
an on screen role, I don't
know. I'm back and forth regarding that.

2490
03:00:31.719 --> 03:00:35.360
It's not my goal. I've heard
I've learned to enjoy my anonymity.

2491
03:00:35.799 --> 03:00:39.479
I think there was a time when
my role worked to a certain degree.

2492
03:00:41.159 --> 03:00:45.280
I'm not sure that it does anymore. If you look back at the evolution

2493
03:00:45.399 --> 03:00:50.040
of wrestling storytelling. You know,
WCW launched the nWo, which was the

2494
03:00:50.159 --> 03:00:54.840
first storyline to pit the wrestlers against
the company, and then Vinci Man kind

2495
03:00:54.840 --> 03:00:58.319
of copy of that with DX worked
very well for him, and it worked

2496
03:00:58.399 --> 03:01:05.399
very well for us. That with
d X all right, Uh, I

2497
03:01:05.399 --> 03:01:09.479
don't know if they went against the
company, but not really. They're just

2498
03:01:09.479 --> 03:01:11.719
gonna operate it within the company.
Just fine. I guess in the beginning

2499
03:01:11.719 --> 03:01:16.879
they were in Sergeant Slaughter's face.
I mean, but that wasn't before.

2500
03:01:16.079 --> 03:01:20.840
It's not taking anything over that's just
actually like douchebags. It also wasn't before

2501
03:01:20.879 --> 03:01:24.840
Stone Cold was doing that anyway.
He fucking he fucking stunned everybody on the

2502
03:01:26.040 --> 03:01:33.840
on the fucking administration administrative roster well
before d X was fucking wearing. Uh

2503
03:01:33.959 --> 03:01:35.760
right, So if that, if
that's copying nWo, then so is Steve

2504
03:01:35.799 --> 03:01:46.920
Austin right exactly, Yeah, no, sorry, pal, he's lapsed.

2505
03:01:46.000 --> 03:02:03.760
Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack MJP Sooan
Wrestling Podcast m HM. And but those

2506
03:02:03.760 --> 03:02:07.600
stories have been told now for going
on six years. Yeah, I think

2507
03:02:07.600 --> 03:02:13.280
it's time to again, maybe go
back to the future. And so you're

2508
03:02:13.280 --> 03:02:18.319
gonna go back to what hasn't happened, Oh my god, and put the

2509
03:02:18.360 --> 03:02:22.799
emphasis on the talent and on the
characters that that bring these stories to life,

2510
03:02:22.840 --> 03:02:26.280
and take the emphasis off the company
and the guys who aren't going to

2511
03:02:26.319 --> 03:02:28.360
be out there every night in the
ring performing. A big part of me

2512
03:02:28.440 --> 03:02:33.319
wants to say I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna do it anymore because I don't

2513
03:02:33.360 --> 03:02:35.040
think it's appropriate and I mean it
when I say it, But I also

2514
03:02:35.079 --> 03:02:39.280
have to recognize that if the story
makes sense, it's a possibility, but

2515
03:02:39.360 --> 03:02:50.879
I doubt it Jesus Christ jee this
fucking bishof just loves loves hearing himself rataliz

2516
03:02:50.200 --> 03:02:54.840
it must be I mean he loves
saying both neither and both at the same

2517
03:02:54.920 --> 03:02:58.680
time. Yeah, it's neither this
nor that. But Meltzer's wrong, and

2518
03:02:58.719 --> 03:03:01.719
that's why I need to know neither
this nor that. But it could be

2519
03:03:01.799 --> 03:03:07.520
this and it may become that.
And I didn't do that because I didn't

2520
03:03:07.559 --> 03:03:11.239
want to do that. There was
a lot of excitement when you and Vince

2521
03:03:11.319 --> 03:03:13.840
Russeau headed the creative team in April. Ultimately it didn't work. What went

2522
03:03:13.920 --> 03:03:18.840
wrong a number of things, really, you know, without personalizing it,

2523
03:03:18.920 --> 03:03:22.520
the truth of the matter is that
I never really came back to the extent

2524
03:03:22.559 --> 03:03:26.840
that I was when I left.
I wasn't as engaged and involved, but

2525
03:03:26.959 --> 03:03:30.959
that was the nature of my relationship. I didn't I wanted it that way,

2526
03:03:31.440 --> 03:03:33.520
and Turner wanted it that way.
Because I was involved on what I

2527
03:03:33.520 --> 03:03:39.399
would call a part time basis or
an arms length type of relationship, I

2528
03:03:39.520 --> 03:03:43.200
really wasn't able to affect that kind
of change that I wanted to affect.

2529
03:03:43.719 --> 03:03:48.079
At the same time, I knew
it wouldn't be fair of me to push

2530
03:03:48.159 --> 03:03:50.559
my view on the war of the
world, on the people that were here

2531
03:03:50.639 --> 03:03:54.920
full time. I was back and
I was part of it, but in

2532
03:03:54.959 --> 03:04:00.799
many ways I really wasn't quite Frankly, I was only back for about sixty

2533
03:04:00.879 --> 03:04:03.719
days before it just became abundantly clear
to me that it was not going to

2534
03:04:03.799 --> 03:04:09.600
work. It wasn't working for me
on a personal level. It certainly wasn't

2535
03:04:09.600 --> 03:04:13.959
working for me on a professional level. There's been a trend in recent years

2536
03:04:13.000 --> 03:04:16.639
to reveal the inner workings of the
business. Do you think the business has

2537
03:04:16.680 --> 03:04:20.200
been exposed too much? I think
storylines should be presented in a believable way

2538
03:04:20.319 --> 03:04:24.159
that's easy for an audience to relate
to. There was something to do with

2539
03:04:24.159 --> 03:04:35.280
the fucking question. It's like,
it's like saying, yeah, do you

2540
03:04:35.319 --> 03:04:41.399
think that going in this direction will
actually benefit the business? Well, personally,

2541
03:04:41.520 --> 03:04:48.760
I think hamburgers are tastier. Okay, he's saying storyline, the question

2542
03:04:48.920 --> 03:04:52.879
is too much revealing of the inner
workings of the business, And then he

2543
03:04:52.040 --> 03:04:56.719
storyline should be presented in a believable
way, all right, So I guess

2544
03:04:56.760 --> 03:04:58.719
he means that, like the only
way to be believable is to talk about

2545
03:04:58.760 --> 03:05:03.280
that stage stuff or at least to
have that be part of it. I

2546
03:05:03.280 --> 03:05:07.440
don't think that it's necessary, and
to a certain extent, I think it's

2547
03:05:07.920 --> 03:05:11.639
harmful to try to educate an audience
at the expense of the illusion and perception

2548
03:05:13.319 --> 03:05:16.959
we're really here to create. I
don't think the audience really cares how two

2549
03:05:18.000 --> 03:05:22.399
individuals may feel about each other over
lunch. It's much more important how they

2550
03:05:22.440 --> 03:05:26.159
relate to the characters and how they
relate to the stories reality. Batory lines

2551
03:05:26.760 --> 03:05:31.040
worked for us back in the ninety
five and throughout the years, and I

2552
03:05:31.040 --> 03:05:33.719
certainly has worked for the WWE.
But there's a point where you can take

2553
03:05:33.760 --> 03:05:37.680
it too far. Like anything,
I think in some respects we've taken that

2554
03:05:37.760 --> 03:05:43.959
too far. I mean, do
we need to say more than quote?

2555
03:05:43.200 --> 03:05:48.360
I don't think the audience really cares
how two individuals may feel about each other

2556
03:05:48.440 --> 03:05:56.840
over lunch. Now over brunch,
picture lunch by the way, you know

2557
03:05:56.239 --> 03:06:03.000
salad, Well, you're the rest. I'm picturing like a like like a

2558
03:06:03.120 --> 03:06:09.639
an l a studio commissary. All
right, you know, everyone's sitting outside

2559
03:06:11.319 --> 03:06:18.360
sun and they're you know all that
ship, you know, and they're they

2560
03:06:18.440 --> 03:06:24.959
got they got their fuck Yeah,
they got their fucking kale salads and uh,

2561
03:06:24.040 --> 03:06:28.120
you know, and they're and they're
fucking smoothies. Salmon on the salad

2562
03:06:28.440 --> 03:06:33.799
exactly exactly, salmon light on the
oil. Please? Absolutely? What is

2563
03:06:33.840 --> 03:06:35.799
this? And you give me a
piece of bread with that? I don't

2564
03:06:35.840 --> 03:06:39.920
eat bread. What do you think? I'm a fucking monster? Do you

2565
03:06:39.920 --> 03:06:45.000
have any nuts? Maybe have a
nut? Yeah, you can have a

2566
03:06:45.079 --> 03:06:54.200
nut? Got it right here?
At what point is it realistic for w

2567
03:06:54.280 --> 03:06:56.440
CW to pose a challenge to the
w w F in the ratings war again?

2568
03:06:56.959 --> 03:07:01.079
And it's gonna sound like I'm evading, man, I don't mean you

2569
03:07:01.120 --> 03:07:07.000
have said anything yet, and I'm
not trying to be cute, but I

2570
03:07:07.000 --> 03:07:11.319
don't think our focus should be the
WWE. Clearly they are in the incumbent,

2571
03:07:11.879 --> 03:07:15.040
all right, Clearly they are number
one, and clearly that there's a

2572
03:07:15.120 --> 03:07:18.879
monster difference between number one and number
two. So I'm not minimizing that in

2573
03:07:18.879 --> 03:07:24.360
any regard. But to solely focus
on the will will force you to think

2574
03:07:24.399 --> 03:07:28.639
in certain ways, to react in
certain ways, to create in certain ways.

2575
03:07:28.399 --> 03:07:35.239
How about to create uncertainty, to
create Yes, the target is to

2576
03:07:35.239 --> 03:07:39.799
rebuild the brand. The target is
to recapture the kind of energy and awareness

2577
03:07:39.920 --> 03:07:45.959
is a pop culture phenomenon that WCW
can be by utilizing our assets and our

2578
03:07:46.000 --> 03:07:50.319
talents. Once we do that effectively, and we set our goals high enough

2579
03:07:50.319 --> 03:07:54.360
to begin to achieve that goal,
will automatically be competing at the level we

2580
03:07:54.399 --> 03:07:58.959
want to compete in terms of market
share. I wonder why this Fusian deal

2581
03:08:00.120 --> 03:08:03.239
fell through. Yeah, right,
because he's fucking talking bullshit out of his

2582
03:08:03.319 --> 03:08:07.879
ass. I think if we just
solely focused on the WB, quite honestly,

2583
03:08:07.360 --> 03:08:09.840
we're setting our goals too low.
I mean, I don't mean that

2584
03:08:11.159 --> 03:08:13.479
to sound disparaging to the WWE,
because I would have loved to be in

2585
03:08:13.479 --> 03:08:16.399
the position therein It was a fun
ride when we were number one, and

2586
03:08:16.440 --> 03:08:20.360
that's where I want to be again. But you have to set your mark

2587
03:08:20.399 --> 03:08:22.840
a little higher than that in order
to get there. I think the key

2588
03:08:22.920 --> 03:08:26.600
to life is to set your goals
high enough, realistic enough, but high

2589
03:08:26.719 --> 03:08:30.440
enough so that even if you don't
get exactly where you want to be,

2590
03:08:30.760 --> 03:08:33.239
you're high enough and close enough to
the mark that you're well ahead of where

2591
03:08:33.239 --> 03:08:37.840
anyone else anyone thought you would get. That's his answer to how long it's

2592
03:08:37.840 --> 03:08:41.239
going to take? The fuck is
he talking about before challenge him in the

2593
03:08:41.319 --> 03:08:43.959
ratings again, has there been any
thought to not going head to head with

2594
03:08:45.040 --> 03:08:48.760
HIMWF on Monday nights. I can't
address that right now because we haven't thought

2595
03:08:48.799 --> 03:08:52.399
that through. I'll just tell you
that what I'm about what most people that

2596
03:08:52.479 --> 03:08:56.840
have worked with me for any length
of time note know this. I would

2597
03:08:56.920 --> 03:09:05.840
rather fight than have a good stake. Oh my god, what what is

2598
03:09:05.879 --> 03:09:11.200
fighting in steak have to do with
anything? He's trying to say, you'd

2599
03:09:11.280 --> 03:09:13.520
rather, you know, compete with
Vince McMahon and try to fuck with him

2600
03:09:13.520 --> 03:09:18.200
than eat a delicious meal. It's
steak, Okay. It's him trying to

2601
03:09:18.200 --> 03:09:20.000
say I enjoy fighting more than sex, but he can't say sex, So

2602
03:09:20.040 --> 03:09:24.120
he's a steak, just like DDP
said Steak. I think a good fight

2603
03:09:24.200 --> 03:09:26.319
in the ring, out of the
ring, in the industry, out of

2604
03:09:26.319 --> 03:09:31.799
the industry only helps to improve the
business. I think we prove that the

2605
03:09:31.840 --> 03:09:35.159
battle between WW and WWE is one
of the things that I think grew the

2606
03:09:35.399 --> 03:09:41.040
genre to the level that it's at
today. A one horse race becomes a

2607
03:09:41.079 --> 03:09:43.600
boring race. It was a boring
race when the w was the only show

2608
03:09:43.600 --> 03:09:46.719
in prime time. It became a
boring race for a period of a year

2609
03:09:46.719 --> 03:09:50.760
and a half or two years,
when WSW was so far ahead that it

2610
03:09:50.799 --> 03:09:54.399
didn't seem like the ww could ever
become It was boring when that happened,

2611
03:09:54.920 --> 03:09:58.920
Yes, apparently it was boring.
Guys were ready to kill the company could

2612
03:09:58.920 --> 03:10:01.319
ever be competitive again, And now
that the situation is reversed, has become

2613
03:10:01.399 --> 03:10:05.680
boring again. I think competition between
the two companies is the healthiest, healthiest

2614
03:10:05.680 --> 03:10:09.120
thing that could happen for either one
of the companies. Part of that is

2615
03:10:09.159 --> 03:10:13.680
going head to head. So I'll
resist anybody that doesn't want to go head

2616
03:10:13.719 --> 03:10:16.879
to head or compete on that level
because I honestly believe it's the best thing

2617
03:10:16.920 --> 03:10:18.680
for both companies. Yeah, that
he'd import that, thinking to TNA a

2618
03:10:18.840 --> 03:10:24.680
great success, Will WSW be reducing
its roster or adding new talent? In

2619
03:10:24.879 --> 03:10:30.639
general, I'd suggest that it's very
difficult to make anything bigger while you're trying

2620
03:10:30.639 --> 03:10:37.920
to make it smaller. Again,
in general, I'll suggest that it's very

2621
03:10:37.959 --> 03:10:43.600
difficult to make anything bigger while you're
trying to make it smaller. I vastly

2622
03:10:43.639 --> 03:10:50.639
prefer the heal Eric Bischoff interview,
right, I think The key to the

2623
03:10:50.719 --> 03:10:56.920
WCW being successful is to build and
acquire and develop new talent. One of

2624
03:10:56.920 --> 03:11:03.360
the things that we're really going to
focus on is finding smart, aggressive and

2625
03:11:03.399 --> 03:11:09.239
innovative ways to identify talent. In
terms of identifying and recruiting and training and

2626
03:11:09.319 --> 03:11:13.000
trying to develop talent. On a
very basic level, that process is rather

2627
03:11:13.200 --> 03:11:18.200
archaic here at WCW, and it
is even at the WWE. There's nothing

2628
03:11:18.239 --> 03:11:22.840
really innovative going on there. There
are a lot of new ways to go

2629
03:11:22.879 --> 03:11:26.000
out there and find talent, and
that's one of the things that I'm probably

2630
03:11:26.159 --> 03:11:30.840
most excited about and will be focus
on in the next period of months.

2631
03:11:33.079 --> 03:11:37.079
That all makes sense. What's your
first impression when you look at the current

2632
03:11:37.159 --> 03:11:43.159
roster in WCW hell of a roster. First and foremost, you still you

2633
03:11:43.239 --> 03:11:46.920
got Bill Goldberg, you got Sting, you got Lex Luger, you got

2634
03:11:46.920 --> 03:11:50.760
Buff bag Well, you get Diamond
Della's Page, you got Kevin Nash.

2635
03:11:50.200 --> 03:11:54.520
They're established brands that have been around
for a long time. In addition to

2636
03:11:54.559 --> 03:11:58.639
that, you have a younger,
next generation of talent that has yet to

2637
03:11:58.680 --> 03:12:03.719
reach potentially. I'm really excited about
it. The question is not whether the

2638
03:12:03.879 --> 03:12:07.639
ingredients are here. The question is
whether or not the recipe is correct.

2639
03:12:07.239 --> 03:12:11.079
We just have to modify the recipe
a little bit to make sure it's what

2640
03:12:11.120 --> 03:12:18.000
we're hoping to cook. It's not
all about food. The only thing more

2641
03:12:18.040 --> 03:12:24.120
tortured than me right now are these
analogies. There is a perception that the

2642
03:12:24.200 --> 03:12:26.639
WCW locker room is out of control. Do you think that is the case?

2643
03:12:28.840 --> 03:12:31.799
Nothing more has been made of that
issue a by individuals with their own

2644
03:12:31.879 --> 03:12:37.600
agendas, and it is necessarily the
case. When you've got sixty or eighty

2645
03:12:37.639 --> 03:12:41.040
ar wrestlers with healthy egos, we're
all competing and are somewhat insecured. Due

2646
03:12:41.040 --> 03:12:45.879
to the nature of the entertainment business, You're always going to have competitiveness and

2647
03:12:46.000 --> 03:12:50.680
infighting and jealousy and frustration. That's
true whether you're it's on a movie set,

2648
03:12:50.120 --> 03:12:54.399
on a football field or in a
wrestling locker room. That's not to

2649
03:12:54.440 --> 03:12:56.959
minimize the fact that over the past
year or so, because of all the

2650
03:12:58.079 --> 03:13:01.399
changes in management and direction, that
those feelings have not been raised to the

2651
03:13:01.440 --> 03:13:09.479
next level or exacerbated. Do I
think it's a monumental a monumental problem.

2652
03:13:09.680 --> 03:13:13.600
No, Do I think it's been
overblown, definitely. Because of the nature

2653
03:13:13.600 --> 03:13:18.040
of this transaction, so much of
it has had to remain confidential because that's

2654
03:13:18.040 --> 03:13:22.600
the way both parties involved wanted it
to be. That's created a big vacuum

2655
03:13:22.639 --> 03:13:30.079
of information. That vacuum of information
creates even more frustration. You can't expect

2656
03:13:30.120 --> 03:13:35.399
people not to be nervous, confused, disappointed, or in frustrated over what

2657
03:13:35.440 --> 03:13:41.200
they don't know. I think that
we're going to have a direction and people

2658
03:13:41.280 --> 03:13:43.559
know who's going to be running the
company, and there's still a lot of

2659
03:13:43.639 --> 03:13:46.559
questions that need to be answered,
and they will be answered over weeks and

2660
03:13:46.600 --> 03:13:50.520
months to come, but at least
it's a start. The sense that I've

2661
03:13:50.520 --> 03:13:56.920
gotten today in talking to talent,
because we started making calls to them immediately,

2662
03:13:56.680 --> 03:14:01.159
is that they're relieved and they're very
upmestic. Everybody that had a chance

2663
03:14:01.239 --> 03:14:07.479
to contact, that had a chance
to contact, has been thrilled that it's

2664
03:14:07.479 --> 03:14:11.000
time to get back to business instead
of worrying about who's going to be running

2665
03:14:11.040 --> 03:14:16.479
the business. Will Hulk Hogan have
a role in the company. I don't

2666
03:14:16.479 --> 03:14:18.799
really want to comment on that other
than than to say that my professional feelings

2667
03:14:18.799 --> 03:14:22.639
about Hulk are pretty well known.
I think he's as big a brand name

2668
03:14:24.040 --> 03:14:26.840
as anybody in the industry, and
in many ways he is the industry.

2669
03:14:28.159 --> 03:14:31.280
I think he's a very valuable asset, and I think he will have a

2670
03:14:31.319 --> 03:14:35.200
great future in this business. This
young up and comer will have a great

2671
03:14:35.280 --> 03:14:39.319
future in this business, whether he's
with this company or another company, or

2672
03:14:39.319 --> 03:14:41.959
his own company. That being said, it's my hope and my intention that

2673
03:14:43.000 --> 03:14:46.479
we'll be able to work together,
but at this point it would be premature

2674
03:14:46.520 --> 03:14:50.319
to really discuss it any further.
It's interesting. I wonder what he's but

2675
03:14:50.479 --> 03:14:54.559
probably Hogan has the x WF train
on the tracks by this point his short

2676
03:14:54.600 --> 03:14:58.959
lived post WW venture, So he's
kind of like answering that question knowing that

2677
03:15:00.040 --> 03:15:01.559
Hogan probably doesn't want to come back
to WCW, even if he wants him

2678
03:15:01.600 --> 03:15:07.840
back. Yeah, but if it
actually a fails brother pretty much, what's

2679
03:15:07.840 --> 03:15:09.760
going on, dude in WCW these
days? Dude, what's what's brother?

2680
03:15:09.920 --> 03:15:16.079
So dude, what's who's the third
man? Brother? So dude, who's

2681
03:15:16.159 --> 03:15:18.760
champ? Dude? Who he's got
the strap? Dude? Easy? Dude,

2682
03:15:18.760 --> 03:15:22.120
who's strapping the who's strapping the strap? Brother? And when's he giving

2683
03:15:22.120 --> 03:15:26.239
it to Hull Hoogan. That's the
thing, dude, Who's what's her job

2684
03:15:26.280 --> 03:15:28.799
into Hull Hogan? Brother, Let's
really ride this thing out, really have

2685
03:15:28.840 --> 03:15:31.280
a run. You know, life, life is a series of runs.

2686
03:15:31.920 --> 03:15:35.280
Now, time to take the old, the old Hulk wagon around for another

2687
03:15:35.959 --> 03:15:39.159
another. You know, dude,
you were backstage the night of the controversial

2688
03:15:39.159 --> 03:15:41.079
Hogan gift. You're at match at
batch at the beach. What are your

2689
03:15:41.079 --> 03:15:45.639
thoughts in the events that occurred that
evening? There's a litigation in process and

2690
03:15:45.680 --> 03:15:48.920
I don't think it would be appropriate
to comment. Is there a chance,

2691
03:15:50.440 --> 03:15:54.559
like, like, you know,
he wh I put that in the magazine

2692
03:15:54.680 --> 03:15:56.120
to show you asked? But yeah, it's like, I mean, the

2693
03:15:56.159 --> 03:16:01.719
best thing is he definitely is someone
who who loves you the word litigation.

2694
03:16:03.799 --> 03:16:07.559
He loves that work. He loves
lawyers. Yeah he hates them, but

2695
03:16:07.600 --> 03:16:11.319
he wants to be just like him. Is there a chance we will see

2696
03:16:11.319 --> 03:16:13.879
Scott Hall already savage back in WCW. Now, there's always a chance.

2697
03:16:13.879 --> 03:16:18.520
It would be premature to comment beyond
that because I haven't had a conversation with

2698
03:16:18.559 --> 03:16:20.879
Scott or Randy about it. You
know, people can say whatever they want

2699
03:16:20.879 --> 03:16:26.840
about talent and generally speaking, the
bigger anyone name is, the more controversial

2700
03:16:26.879 --> 03:16:31.479
it's going to become somewhere down the
line. I have a lot of respect

2701
03:16:31.520 --> 03:16:33.680
for the effort, at the time
and commitment that guys like Randy Savage have

2702
03:16:33.719 --> 03:16:39.559
made to this business over the years. I still think there's a tremendous value

2703
03:16:41.159 --> 03:16:46.840
in the name and the brand and
in the character. That question is whether

2704
03:16:46.959 --> 03:16:50.319
or not we can find a way
to utilize it in a way that makes

2705
03:16:50.319 --> 03:16:52.879
sense for us, makes sense for
Randy, it makes sense for the business.

2706
03:16:52.959 --> 03:16:56.840
I think we can, but that
remains to be seen. Women have

2707
03:16:56.879 --> 03:17:00.360
played a large role in WCW over
the past year. Will their roles change.

2708
03:17:01.280 --> 03:17:03.600
I think that women need to have
a place in our show. I

2709
03:17:03.600 --> 03:17:07.120
think women can be a very entertaining
part of our show. That being said,

2710
03:17:07.200 --> 03:17:11.280
I don't think it's going to be
the way they've been used over the

2711
03:17:11.319 --> 03:17:15.040
past year. I find it somewhat
limiting. I see it as somewhat short

2712
03:17:15.079 --> 03:17:20.000
sighted and a little patronizing. You
know, it just hasn't worked very well.

2713
03:17:20.040 --> 03:17:24.159
I think it's incumbent upon us,
on all of us, to try

2714
03:17:24.159 --> 03:17:28.719
and think of new and better ways
to utilize women in wrestling. What have

2715
03:17:28.760 --> 03:17:33.040
you learned from your first stint?
Is ww president. Now we're talking about

2716
03:17:33.040 --> 03:17:41.079
a book, not a magazine,
Okay, and I'm sorry, I don't

2717
03:17:41.719 --> 03:17:46.319
the name of the book controversy creates
cash. Oh oh yeah. Probably,

2718
03:17:46.319 --> 03:17:54.200
First and foremost, with my own
limitation, she's such an idiot. First

2719
03:17:54.239 --> 03:17:58.079
and foremost, my own limitations.
Not that I'm much older now, but

2720
03:17:58.120 --> 03:18:01.399
I've aged a lot over the last
eight years or so. I think I

2721
03:18:01.399 --> 03:18:05.040
took over this company the first time
in nineteen ninety three, and I was

2722
03:18:05.120 --> 03:18:11.520
younger in a lot of ways back
then, especially in years. He says,

2723
03:18:11.520 --> 03:18:13.360
not that I'm much older now,
but I've aged a lot over the

2724
03:18:13.760 --> 03:18:18.520
last eight years. Yeah, you're
eight years older, Like, well,

2725
03:18:18.639 --> 03:18:22.000
why did you have to say it
that way? And I was younger in

2726
03:18:22.040 --> 03:18:30.559
a lot of ways back then,
and in a lot of ways except age.

2727
03:18:31.639 --> 03:18:37.040
Hopefully I'm smarter about surrounding myself with
people who in some ways are smarter

2728
03:18:37.159 --> 03:18:39.959
than me and better than me.
And hopefully I'm not so willing to think

2729
03:18:41.000 --> 03:18:43.639
I can do everything alone. But
that's a part of my personality. It's

2730
03:18:43.639 --> 03:18:48.479
not to say that I have a
bent toward exclusion of other people. It's

2731
03:18:48.520 --> 03:18:52.879
just that when I see a fire
burning, I tend to rush for the

2732
03:18:52.879 --> 03:18:58.079
hose and put it out myself before
I think of calling someone and asking them

2733
03:18:58.120 --> 03:19:00.760
to do it for me. At
the same time, this is a big

2734
03:19:00.879 --> 03:19:03.040
job. There's a lot of things
I'm good at, and there's a lot

2735
03:19:03.040 --> 03:19:07.200
of things I'm not good at,
and now I have the luxury and responsibility

2736
03:19:07.239 --> 03:19:11.600
of separating the two. Beyond that, I just think I'm a little more

2737
03:19:11.639 --> 03:19:15.319
mature. I'm forty pounds heavier,
and I have a head full of gray

2738
03:19:15.360 --> 03:19:18.319
hair. But I think I'm a
little smarter in a lot of respects.

2739
03:19:18.479 --> 03:19:20.680
When Nitrol went on the air,
it changed the entire wrestling industry. Can

2740
03:19:20.840 --> 03:19:26.159
WCW have that kind of impact again. Yeah, although I don't know that

2741
03:19:26.280 --> 03:19:30.959
the changes will be of the same
magnitude. See, you'll see the businesses

2742
03:19:31.040 --> 03:19:35.600
continue to grow, perhaps more slowly, over a longer period of time,

2743
03:19:35.680 --> 03:19:39.719
so that you can sustain the momentum, sustain the growth, sustain the audience

2744
03:19:41.159 --> 03:19:43.799
and the interest in the product.
We did it a lot. We did

2745
03:19:43.840 --> 03:19:48.360
a lot fast. When we launched
Nitro and all the things that went along

2746
03:19:48.440 --> 03:19:52.799
with that. We went from zero
to one hundred and sixty and seven seconds

2747
03:19:52.840 --> 03:19:56.440
it's hard to recreate that. Look, we're two good ideas away from being

2748
03:19:56.520 --> 03:20:01.040
back to where we used to be. If you look at where WCW is

2749
03:20:01.120 --> 03:20:03.399
right now, and you looked at
where it was a ninety three, where

2750
03:20:03.479 --> 03:20:07.840
leaps and bounds ahead of where we
were, the market is bigger, the

2751
03:20:07.879 --> 03:20:13.079
opportunity is bigger, the audience is
broader, the advertising base is broader,

2752
03:20:13.319 --> 03:20:16.319
There are more licensees. People have
come to realize that this is a real

2753
03:20:16.360 --> 03:20:20.280
business and it's a real part of
American culture and entertainment. Well everyone except

2754
03:20:20.680 --> 03:20:24.840
fucking Turner Networks. Yeah, And
also the lack of people who are watching

2755
03:20:24.879 --> 03:20:31.120
it that didn't exist when I launched
Nitra A nineteen ninety five. That didn't

2756
03:20:31.159 --> 03:20:35.920
exist when I took over WCW nineteen
ninety three. Nobody really wanted to be

2757
03:20:35.920 --> 03:20:39.319
associated with the wrestling business back then. So in many ways, we have

2758
03:20:39.360 --> 03:20:43.079
a lot of advantages now, and
the job is going to be easier in

2759
03:20:43.120 --> 03:20:46.159
some respects harder in the sense that
we've fallen so far behind, and we've

2760
03:20:46.159 --> 03:20:50.000
taken a beating in terms of public
opinion over the past year or two.

2761
03:20:50.399 --> 03:20:54.520
But two good ideas and a lot
of hard work, and you're right back

2762
03:20:54.639 --> 03:20:56.639
in the game. I mean,
I'm glad they did this this way,

2763
03:20:56.719 --> 03:21:01.120
but can you imagine like WF publishing
an article where Vince says, we've taken

2764
03:21:01.159 --> 03:21:05.360
a beating, but you know,
we've taken a beating and so far behind.

2765
03:21:05.600 --> 03:21:09.600
Be eive that that we've been far
behind in certain aspects and that there

2766
03:21:09.600 --> 03:21:11.879
are things that I'm good at,
there are things that I'm not good at,

2767
03:21:11.879 --> 03:21:18.600
and I believe that we can merge
the two into a successful partnership with

2768
03:21:18.600 --> 03:21:22.760
with the entertainment aspects of our company
along with various adjacencies, various adjacencies and

2769
03:21:22.799 --> 03:21:30.079
the multimedia aspects of of what we
provide to our sponsors and to our you

2770
03:21:30.120 --> 03:21:33.680
know, the the the people promoting
the show and people who advertise on the

2771
03:21:33.680 --> 03:21:39.360
show. And you know, we
believe in in taking aspects of the advertising

2772
03:21:39.360 --> 03:21:46.760
industry and using product in our product
in a way that will allow Allison allow

2773
03:21:46.879 --> 03:21:56.760
future developments to occur on a more
natural, organic basis. Organic growth is

2774
03:21:56.799 --> 03:22:05.639
that is that your target orgasmic growth. Here's a bishoff quote for the ages,

2775
03:22:05.840 --> 03:22:07.600
But two good ideas and a lot
of hard work and you're right back

2776
03:22:07.600 --> 03:22:13.840
in the game. Yeah, So
that for you and Jason Hervey when you

2777
03:22:13.879 --> 03:22:20.159
step shit. When you stopped stepped
down as president in nineteen ninety nine,

2778
03:22:20.200 --> 03:22:24.920
you admitted that you were burned out. Are the batteries fully recharged? Oh

2779
03:22:24.000 --> 03:22:28.520
yeah. I never really lost my
enthusiasm, my passion for it. I

2780
03:22:28.559 --> 03:22:33.280
lost my energy and I lost my
objectivity. I was tired physically, emotionally,

2781
03:22:33.520 --> 03:22:41.200
spiritually, mentally, and creatively bank
and then WCW started going down right

2782
03:22:43.079 --> 03:22:45.879
anyway you can measure it. I
was gone. I just needed to go

2783
03:22:45.920 --> 03:22:50.120
sit on a rock and think about
it for a while. And I did.

2784
03:22:50.520 --> 03:22:52.319
I had a lot of time off, and it was great. I

2785
03:22:52.360 --> 03:22:54.159
did a lot of other things.
My energy is pack, you know.

2786
03:22:54.200 --> 03:22:58.920
I went out to the woods.
I hunted, myshed, I hunted.

2787
03:22:58.000 --> 03:23:05.200
I fishing was great, he said, fishing. The fishing was great.

2788
03:23:05.840 --> 03:23:07.079
You know, I went, you
know, i'd been I'd wake up in

2789
03:23:07.120 --> 03:23:13.479
the morning. You do a Folger's
commercial, aren't you. I'd wake up

2790
03:23:13.520 --> 03:23:18.399
in the morning, you know,
and it was you know, the sun

2791
03:23:18.479 --> 03:23:22.079
hadn't risen yet, but the light, you know, and it was crisp

2792
03:23:22.120 --> 03:23:26.360
and cool outside. I'd make some
French press. I'd just sit out on

2793
03:23:26.360 --> 03:23:35.200
my deck and just listen. Oh, just listen, you know, the

2794
03:23:35.319 --> 03:23:39.479
sounds of wind, the sounds of
you know, you could hear you could

2795
03:23:39.479 --> 03:23:48.159
hear every blade of grass, you
know, just whistling in the wind.

2796
03:23:48.239 --> 03:23:52.959
You know. And then after a
while, you know, i'd i'd get

2797
03:23:52.040 --> 03:23:56.680
up and sit up, and I'd
make me and my wife some breakfast.

2798
03:23:56.760 --> 03:24:00.799
You know. We have chickens so
that we have fresh eggs. Yeah,

2799
03:24:03.799 --> 03:24:09.319
I like to churn my own but
I dig the eggs out of the chickens

2800
03:24:09.360 --> 03:24:13.280
ass and put them red in the
pan. I prefer not to have them

2801
03:24:13.399 --> 03:24:20.319
labies. I like, I like
to reach in and grab them. They're

2802
03:24:20.360 --> 03:24:31.719
a little more fresh that way,
you know. I I like to churn

2803
03:24:31.760 --> 03:24:37.120
my own butter once a month,
so you know, I have fresh butter,

2804
03:24:37.520 --> 03:24:41.040
you know, and I'll make I'll
make a plate of eggs. You

2805
03:24:41.040 --> 03:24:43.719
know, we have the we have
potatoes growing out in the back. So

2806
03:24:43.799 --> 03:24:50.120
what have I slaughter my own pigs. This guy get the biggest compound of

2807
03:24:50.200 --> 03:24:54.200
my own. He's got a full
complete ranch. I just just you know,

2808
03:24:54.719 --> 03:24:58.920
I'm you know, this is what
I always imagine his house. Okay,

2809
03:24:58.360 --> 03:25:03.719
I just am. It's like,
okay, it's just alone. You

2810
03:25:03.719 --> 03:25:07.559
know, there's like a there's like
a long as dirt road. We've seen

2811
03:25:07.600 --> 03:25:09.879
pictures of it. Do you see
the mountains in the background. It's just

2812
03:25:09.959 --> 03:25:16.680
my lass. Yeah, And you
got like it's it's the kind of land

2813
03:25:16.719 --> 03:25:20.920
that it's always like golden brown,
uh grass, you know, like it's

2814
03:25:22.000 --> 03:25:31.719
never green. You know. Oh
my god, he's got acres and acres

2815
03:25:31.760 --> 03:25:41.120
of land, just fucking it's guys
from Detroit. Yeah, he's got just

2816
03:25:41.120 --> 03:25:46.600
just massive acres of land, all
right. And he's got animals like you

2817
03:25:46.639 --> 03:25:48.520
know, but everything. The thing
about it, he's got all these things.

2818
03:25:48.520 --> 03:25:54.319
But it's so fucking pristine, all
right. It's not like an actual

2819
03:25:54.360 --> 03:25:56.920
messy farm. Yeah, no,
not at all. Like for some reason,

2820
03:25:58.239 --> 03:26:03.079
you'll drive up and you have you
can't even fucking see uh, like

2821
03:26:03.120 --> 03:26:07.159
a chicken coop anywhere. You know. It's like it's like you can't see

2822
03:26:07.200 --> 03:26:11.520
any of this shit. You can't
see the pig farms, all right.

2823
03:26:13.239 --> 03:26:18.520
All you see is this clean is
this solitary building, the solitary home in

2824
03:26:18.639 --> 03:26:22.600
this clean, pristine, you know
area. But then you know, you

2825
03:26:22.680 --> 03:26:26.959
go, you get in there,
and yeah, he's got all these things

2826
03:26:26.959 --> 03:26:31.040
like almost like a weird It's like
for some reason, it's like it's in

2827
03:26:31.159 --> 03:26:35.760
plain sight, but you can't see
it when you come up there, all

2828
03:26:35.840 --> 03:26:37.079
right. And then you he'll take
you out for a walk and you find

2829
03:26:37.200 --> 03:26:41.600
all the little farms stuff that he
has, you know, like, right,

2830
03:26:43.319 --> 03:26:48.760
he's got vegetable gardens, he's got
chicken coops, he's got he's got

2831
03:26:48.200 --> 03:26:54.280
pigs, and you know, fucking
all this shit everything. Listen, this

2832
03:26:54.280 --> 03:26:56.959
guy isn't going to a fucking grocery
store in two years, right, all

2833
03:26:58.040 --> 03:27:05.079
right, That's that's it. Everything
he makes on his own, everything,

2834
03:27:05.959 --> 03:27:11.120
all right. So he says he
makes his wife fucking eggs from the ass

2835
03:27:11.120 --> 03:27:18.440
of fucking chickens, huge bowl of
salad, absoluge bowld oh my goods,

2836
03:27:18.559 --> 03:27:28.799
with like four different kinds of lettuce, a little frize. H. That's

2837
03:27:28.799 --> 03:27:33.520
the thing. Like he goes to
the American wilderness and then tries to surround

2838
03:27:33.600 --> 03:27:39.680
himself with like French patisseriat, like
he wants like a Parisian cafe in the

2839
03:27:39.719 --> 03:27:43.600
middle of the fucking wyoming wilderness.
Pretty much. The only thing he doesn't

2840
03:27:43.639 --> 03:27:50.719
do on his own is like is
like is squeeze olive oil out of olives?

2841
03:27:50.959 --> 03:27:52.520
All right? Like that's the only
thing he got we'll go to the

2842
03:27:52.520 --> 03:27:56.000
store to buy and he'll go to
hell like buy and bolt. He'll buy

2843
03:27:56.120 --> 03:28:03.360
massive amounts of olive so doesn't have
to go back for another year. One

2844
03:28:03.360 --> 03:28:05.639
thing, one thing it's really great
about this is we're really getting to the

2845
03:28:05.639 --> 03:28:22.319
heart of this interview. Just picture
of his fucking gray hair. The gray

2846
03:28:22.319 --> 03:28:28.440
haired Bishop is such a fail black
you know, drinking black coffee, you

2847
03:28:28.479 --> 03:28:33.079
know, and and watching the sunrise
from his deck and then you know,

2848
03:28:33.520 --> 03:28:39.559
watching the show for his podcast at
four point thirty in the morning so that

2849
03:28:39.600 --> 03:28:46.520
when missus B gets up you can
bring her coffee right exactly exactly, yeah,

2850
03:28:46.959 --> 03:28:48.200
Like it's like five thirty in the
morning, and you hear a knife

2851
03:28:48.239 --> 03:28:52.159
on a cutting board. Yeah,
oh god, yep, yep, he's

2852
03:28:52.200 --> 03:29:01.600
just he's just slicing vegetables for me. Yes, you know, he's like

2853
03:29:01.079 --> 03:29:05.920
like he's he always like you just
see, he always needs to have like

2854
03:29:07.040 --> 03:29:11.959
a you know, a couple of
containers of chopped vegetables for you know,

2855
03:29:11.040 --> 03:29:18.159
you never know he's gonna he's he
always says something pickling in the fridge.

2856
03:29:18.280 --> 03:29:31.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, Like there's a mason jars in his

2857
03:29:31.520 --> 03:29:37.639
fridge like for days. Absolutely He's
always like, that's what in the basement

2858
03:29:37.680 --> 03:29:43.920
he has like a pickling okay or
or some kind of like that's where you

2859
03:29:43.920 --> 03:29:50.559
know, whenever he's like making something
long term that's then needs to there's a

2860
03:29:50.680 --> 03:29:54.040
there's a specific fridge, you know, a sub zero fridge in the basement

2861
03:29:54.920 --> 03:30:01.600
that is specifically designed for his long
term. Like he's got one of those

2862
03:30:01.159 --> 03:30:05.799
uh stovetops with like the big vent
above it, like the industrial vent.

2863
03:30:05.120 --> 03:30:11.319
Oh. Absolutely, absolutely, he's
like marmalade. He's like, yes he

2864
03:30:11.360 --> 03:30:16.799
does. He has like an eight
burner range. Yes to be what spread

2865
03:30:16.000 --> 03:30:20.280
she wants? Yeah, yes,
various, you know, grains. You

2866
03:30:20.319 --> 03:30:39.040
know, I made some grain bread. What guy is now chat? Oh

2867
03:30:39.120 --> 03:30:46.200
my god, it's too funny.
And then they have they have their breakfast,

2868
03:30:46.280 --> 03:30:48.520
you know, and they there for
a little they chat for a little

2869
03:30:48.520 --> 03:30:54.360
while, and then at some point
he you know, he gets the newspaper

2870
03:30:56.000 --> 03:31:00.559
and she's like reading a magazine or
maybe scrolling her phone, and they kind

2871
03:31:00.559 --> 03:31:03.440
of sit there in silence for like
twenty minutes while they finished their coffee,

2872
03:31:05.639 --> 03:31:09.520
and and then you know, then
they come then then it's time for him

2873
03:31:09.559 --> 03:31:13.840
to to go into town. You
know. It's remember we had the thing

2874
03:31:13.920 --> 03:31:20.440
what we did, the he went
to go. He got his mail at

2875
03:31:20.440 --> 03:31:26.120
two o'clock exactly exactly, Yes,
I got about that. So from from

2876
03:31:26.120 --> 03:31:41.200
like from ten to two he does
his daily errands in town. It's like,

2877
03:31:41.319 --> 03:31:48.200
what was it so funny? It's
so funny. It's because it's him.

2878
03:31:48.319 --> 03:31:58.680
He's a fucking wrestling promoter and this
is the fuck idiot, so he

2879
03:31:58.760 --> 03:32:03.079
say, he said, so you
know, it's it's like eight o'clock.

2880
03:32:03.079 --> 03:32:07.280
Am a dot? He like he
folds back up the paper. He says,

2881
03:32:07.280 --> 03:32:18.159
I'm going to take a shower,
gets up perfect, takes a shower,

2882
03:32:18.399 --> 03:32:24.120
like you know, fucking does his
like skincare routine, all that oils

2883
03:32:24.159 --> 03:32:30.120
and like he's like fucking Christian Bale
and in American Psycho with all these like

2884
03:32:31.040 --> 03:32:35.200
things that does like prepare and and
then a ten and ten. At ten,

2885
03:32:35.319 --> 03:32:39.319
he gets into his fucking jeep or
his uh truck. Yeah, yeah,

2886
03:32:39.440 --> 03:32:43.079
truck, right, something like that. But like but also like it's

2887
03:32:43.120 --> 03:32:46.600
not like it's not tough guy enough
where it's like a dirty truck like it

2888
03:32:46.680 --> 03:32:50.200
is again, right, is he'd
have like an electric truck. Yeah,

2889
03:32:50.200 --> 03:32:56.079
it's a pristine, spotless, you
know, like it's completely you know,

2890
03:32:56.159 --> 03:33:00.520
a real cowboy truck, a real
buffalo bill whatever. Right, But again

2891
03:33:00.639 --> 03:33:05.920
it's it's it's it's this like,
yeah, Matthew McConaughey would drive and a

2892
03:33:05.479 --> 03:33:13.559
right, right, and he goes
into town. You know you probably uh

2893
03:33:13.639 --> 03:33:18.760
you know, first thing does it
takes him like an hour and a half

2894
03:33:18.760 --> 03:33:20.239
to get to town. Of course, of course, like yeah, exactly,

2895
03:33:20.280 --> 03:33:24.440
that's kind of a thing, like
it's a four hour it's a four

2896
03:33:24.479 --> 03:33:28.440
hour span of time because it takes
him two hours to get there. You

2897
03:33:28.440 --> 03:33:33.040
got to live that far away from
any civilization. Exactly, it's fucking riot.

2898
03:33:33.280 --> 03:33:37.719
You see. Somebody knows named Jim
at the grocery store. Hey Jim,

2899
03:33:37.799 --> 03:33:45.040
how you been? He tries to
cut the conversation short. How the

2900
03:33:45.079 --> 03:33:54.959
horse is going? You gambled?
You know, I'm thinking about geting a

2901
03:33:54.959 --> 03:33:58.680
new motorcycle. You know, maybe
you don't take a ride, you know,

2902
03:33:58.719 --> 03:34:03.440
maybe maybe in a couple of weeks
you'll take a ride on the hog.

2903
03:34:07.319 --> 03:34:18.840
Yeah, I can't do is so
perfect. Takes like like, you

2904
03:34:18.879 --> 03:34:24.159
know, somewhere between noon and one, he like kind of at the end

2905
03:34:24.440 --> 03:34:28.159
towards the end of his of his
errand run. He you know, he

2906
03:34:28.200 --> 03:34:33.239
stops at at like at the local
micro micro brewery, you know, just

2907
03:34:33.280 --> 03:34:39.360
has a couple of beers good,
you know, chats up the the owner

2908
03:34:39.639 --> 03:34:41.879
bar keep yep, I know,
yeah, he knows, he knows the

2909
03:34:41.920 --> 03:34:48.440
owner's daughter is going to like Wyoming
State or something exactly exactly. And then

2910
03:34:48.719 --> 03:34:50.799
and then yeah, then the last
thing he does, he goes to the

2911
03:34:50.799 --> 03:34:54.319
fucking post office, picks up the
mail, and then he starts heading home

2912
03:34:54.319 --> 03:34:58.040
at two o'clock, gets home three
point thirty. You know, zoom calls,

2913
03:34:58.079 --> 03:35:05.000
and a couple couple zoom calls,
and then jeopardy to start making dinner.

2914
03:35:09.200 --> 03:35:15.680
This is he goes ahead and describes
in this in this interview by his

2915
03:35:15.959 --> 03:35:20.840
short lived hiatus there where he had
was like basically vacationing, and we lost

2916
03:35:20.840 --> 03:35:28.840
our minds. We cleared the table
off. The best thing is like Laurie

2917
03:35:28.000 --> 03:35:35.680
does nothing in this whole scenario,
you know, like she just observes him,

2918
03:35:35.719 --> 03:35:39.639
you know, floating around all day. It's just kind of like he's

2919
03:35:39.840 --> 03:35:46.559
he's the busiest man with nothing to
do, exactly. I'm so it's like

2920
03:35:46.680 --> 03:35:50.799
Jerry Lawler's Christmas. I'm obsessed with
people who have nothing to do, and

2921
03:35:50.840 --> 03:35:54.840
so they have to fill you know
what I mean, the time somehow,

2922
03:35:54.079 --> 03:36:00.639
and they find ways to make it
feel like they're busy. Shouldn't then got

2923
03:36:00.799 --> 03:36:05.959
nothing going on. He gets earlier, and he gets up earlier than anyone

2924
03:36:05.959 --> 03:36:13.879
on the fucking planet, you know, to do jack ship make coffee?

2925
03:36:20.840 --> 03:36:28.760
You said, he gets up earlier
than anyone on the plan. Oh you

2926
03:36:28.840 --> 03:36:31.479
gotta you know he's got a weight
room in the basement, of course,

2927
03:36:31.600 --> 03:36:35.040
you know, of course he does. Because after he like you know,

2928
03:36:35.079 --> 03:36:39.440
because because again after he after he
preps, yeah, after he preps dinner,

2929
03:36:39.760 --> 03:36:43.639
after he chops the ship out of
that cutting board exactly, you know,

2930
03:36:43.680 --> 03:36:48.120
and kind of things are like ready
to go. He'll take like forty

2931
03:36:48.159 --> 03:36:52.840
five minutes to just do a quick
workout. Listen to listen to a podcast,

2932
03:36:52.040 --> 03:36:56.399
Yeah, exactly. Listen to like
a podcast by like a CEO talking

2933
03:36:56.399 --> 03:37:00.799
about like, yep, you know
how he how he innovated when everybody was

2934
03:37:00.840 --> 03:37:03.719
trying to keep the organization standing still. Yep. Or he'll put like a

2935
03:37:03.840 --> 03:37:07.520
or he'll put like a like he's
got like a corner TV in the gem

2936
03:37:07.559 --> 03:37:09.879
and so he'll put it like a
ted talk or something like that. It's

2937
03:37:09.879 --> 03:37:16.280
always something that's like entrepreneurial, like
kind of weird, like software related or

2938
03:37:16.280 --> 03:37:20.440
some bullshit like that, what's the
next what's the next fucking human potential related

2939
03:37:22.680 --> 03:37:31.040
human potential? What's the next thing
in entrepreneur you know, what's you know,

2940
03:37:31.120 --> 03:37:37.399
what's what's the next focus going to
be disrupting the disruptors exactly. He

2941
03:37:37.440 --> 03:37:41.959
does take about fifteen minutes to look
at his Fidelity account and like for sure,

2942
03:37:41.120 --> 03:37:46.280
he stocks around to feel always he
always looks at his portfolio for the

2943
03:37:46.479 --> 03:37:50.959
fuck. All right, Oh my
god, he's like pet health is a

2944
03:37:50.959 --> 03:37:54.520
big trend, so he's buying all
that, and then you know, and

2945
03:37:54.559 --> 03:38:00.479
then then at like six o'clock he'll
he'll start the the actual looking of the

2946
03:38:00.520 --> 03:38:05.159
dinner. You know, every every
every meal has a grill portion, all

2947
03:38:05.239 --> 03:38:09.399
right. It doesn't always mean it's
meat, but it like, you know,

2948
03:38:09.559 --> 03:38:13.120
he's like gonna gri grill vegetables,
yeah right, or he'll grill like

2949
03:38:13.360 --> 03:38:16.680
you know, sometimes he likes to
do grilled peaches that he picked out,

2950
03:38:18.120 --> 03:38:22.879
you know, and then he puts
honey on them. All right, I

2951
03:38:22.959 --> 03:38:26.959
cannot do this anymore. It's too
much. It just it's way too much.

2952
03:38:33.120 --> 03:38:41.879
Oh my god. In Christ,
so awesome. It's so fucking phenomenal.

2953
03:38:46.879 --> 03:38:52.319
Oh my god, he wakes up
earlier and any one on the planet.

2954
03:38:56.559 --> 03:39:01.239
That was great that that one's up
there. Let me tell you,

2955
03:39:01.399 --> 03:39:05.040
we've never gone that hard on him
before as far as and it's not his

2956
03:39:05.079 --> 03:39:13.000
observations. You just have a nice
guy, you know, like he's actually,

2957
03:39:13.000 --> 03:39:15.520
you know, you think about it's
actually a pretty decent life to live,

2958
03:39:16.520 --> 03:39:20.319
but the fact that it's him living
is hilarious. The bottom line is

2959
03:39:20.360 --> 03:39:26.000
this is that it's Eric Bischoff fucking
wrestling Carnie who's living this life, which

2960
03:39:26.000 --> 03:39:31.719
makes it, which makes basically everything
that he does bullshit. All Right,

2961
03:39:31.879 --> 03:39:35.399
that's the bottom line with it,
because in reality, he's just uh,

2962
03:39:35.840 --> 03:39:41.200
you know, he's just this this
this money whore is what he But he

2963
03:39:41.280 --> 03:39:48.719
has this this weird facade of a
life that you know, oh shit,

2964
03:39:48.879 --> 03:39:52.440
man, I I feel like I
gotta take a zoom call. After that,

2965
03:39:56.559 --> 03:40:01.959
you hear like the team sounded like
but that the living the kitchen is

2966
03:40:01.280 --> 03:40:05.000
connected to the living room. It's
open air, it's open there's no wall

2967
03:40:05.040 --> 03:40:09.239
between them, and so in like
the staircase overlooks the living room. And

2968
03:40:09.760 --> 03:40:13.559
when you hear like the team's call
come in like lowering the second floor.

2969
03:40:13.600 --> 03:40:22.600
Can hear, but it like it's
a faint echo reaching the ceiling. You

2970
03:40:22.600 --> 03:40:30.000
know, yes, yes, yes, it's like rolling her eyes fucking cries.

2971
03:40:30.120 --> 03:40:39.239
This guy taking another meeting. Oh
god, all right, please continue.

2972
03:40:39.719 --> 03:40:45.600
It must be read into the record. I did a lot of other

2973
03:40:45.760 --> 03:40:52.159
My energy is back, but in
a different way. You had left.

2974
03:40:52.159 --> 03:40:56.120
Okay, any safeguards to make sure
you don't get burned out again. Goes

2975
03:40:56.159 --> 03:41:00.360
back to what I said before about
not trying to do everything yourself, learning

2976
03:41:00.399 --> 03:41:03.559
to delegate, learning to recognize that
there are other people who can do things

2977
03:41:03.600 --> 03:41:07.639
better than you can do Sometimes pacing. I was running a sprint. I

2978
03:41:07.639 --> 03:41:11.760
should have been running a marathon.
I sprint it for a long time,

2979
03:41:11.799 --> 03:41:15.040
and it wasn't a hundred yard dash. It was a marathon. I'm going

2980
03:41:15.079 --> 03:41:20.319
to run the marathon. Wow,
fuck off, you sure are. Let's

2981
03:41:20.319 --> 03:41:22.639
do some quick word association Eric before
we get out of here, all right.

2982
03:41:22.760 --> 03:41:31.319
Vince McMahon, smart guy, Vince
Russo, no comment, Hulk Hogan,

2983
03:41:31.840 --> 03:41:37.120
one of my best friends. Goldberg
incredible talent potential. Scott Steiner same

2984
03:41:37.159 --> 03:41:43.000
as Goldberg, Diamond Dallas Page one
of the most committed people I have ever

2985
03:41:43.000 --> 03:41:50.239
worked with Kevin Nash complex, Jeff
Jarrett, a wrestler's wrestler, sting wait

2986
03:41:50.280 --> 03:41:58.959
and see Rick Flair, foundation of
our businessoff ladies and gentlemen. That's all

2987
03:42:00.120 --> 03:42:05.239
raise up for the for the president. So that's how he speaks to the

2988
03:42:05.280 --> 03:42:09.600
k fab in house publication. Remember
Wow magazine. Yes, do you think

2989
03:42:09.600 --> 03:42:15.360
he talked to that esteemed publication about
w W. I imagine he would.

2990
03:42:15.399 --> 03:42:20.680
And making himself available to the media
around the announcement of the Fusiane purchase,

2991
03:42:20.719 --> 03:42:24.559
I think he did. Absolutely.
He's available to all media all times,

2992
03:42:24.600 --> 03:42:28.719
and I think that is before we
leave Eric. Here in this episode a

2993
03:42:28.719 --> 03:42:33.799
contemporaneous record that needs to be kept
as well, So if you could please

2994
03:42:33.840 --> 03:42:39.959
follow along. And this is an
interview done published March twenty fourth, two

2995
03:42:39.000 --> 03:42:41.920
thousand and one. It's amazing,
it's all March, you know, or

2996
03:42:41.959 --> 03:42:46.040
April. It's like it's already done. Guys. By all the time these

2997
03:42:46.040 --> 03:42:48.360
interviews hit the newstands, it's fucking
done. Do I have this one or

2998
03:42:48.399 --> 03:42:52.520
is it I just sent it in
the chat? Okay? So we start

2999
03:42:54.600 --> 03:42:58.799
see here there was a brief period. This is by a Brian Barrera.

3000
03:43:00.520 --> 03:43:03.360
There was a brief period in early
two thousand and one when Fusing Media announced

3001
03:43:03.399 --> 03:43:07.000
that they had purchased WCW and made
Eric Bischoff president of the company during that

3002
03:43:07.079 --> 03:43:13.440
time president. This is okay,
Now that's a preamble to someone reproducing the

3003
03:43:13.440 --> 03:43:20.440
interview online. All right, so
we'll go. Let's see. Okay,

3004
03:43:20.719 --> 03:43:24.319
Bischoff's back interviewed by Bill Apter and
Tim Tawie. So Brian Brere is the

3005
03:43:24.319 --> 03:43:28.760
person who posted this online. Okay, that's why I'm mis mistaken. But

3006
03:43:28.799 --> 03:43:33.520
the interview is done by Bill Apter
and Tim Twie. The professional wrestling landscape

3007
03:43:33.559 --> 03:43:37.559
has changed. Fusant Media Ventures announced
January eleventh that it had reached an agreement

3008
03:43:37.559 --> 03:43:41.760
to purchase World Championship Wrestling from Turner
Broadcasting System Incorporated. Under the agreement,

3009
03:43:41.760 --> 03:43:46.040
Fusian with take control of WCW,
with former WW president Eric Bischoff in charge

3010
03:43:46.239 --> 03:43:50.120
of the federation. TBS agreed to
keep him a minority interest in WCW along

3011
03:43:50.120 --> 03:43:54.120
with programming rights. Fuzian co founder
Brian Badahal became the chief executive officer of

3012
03:43:54.120 --> 03:43:56.920
the new WW inc. We're going
to re establish WCW as the champion of

3013
03:43:56.920 --> 03:44:01.760
professional Wrestling Entertainment, but All said
is a huge untapped potential for the franchise,

3014
03:44:01.760 --> 03:44:03.520
and with Eric Bischoff on board,
we will crank everything up to make

3015
03:44:03.559 --> 03:44:07.799
the WW franchise bigger, better,
and stronger and more entertaining. Bischoff Badalin

3016
03:44:07.840 --> 03:44:13.159
Bradley Siegeal TBS, president of General
Entertainment Networks, would not disclose the price

3017
03:44:13.200 --> 03:44:18.040
of the sale, but WIT Soundview
Media analyst Jordan Rohan told Variety the ww's

3018
03:44:18.120 --> 03:44:20.879
value was between ten million and fifteen
million dollars. Bischoff said he's focused on

3019
03:44:20.879 --> 03:44:26.000
turning ww's fortunes around. Wrestling fans
can rest assured that we will give WCW

3020
03:44:26.079 --> 03:44:28.600
the adrenaline shot it needs to once
again become the most exciting brand of wrestling

3021
03:44:28.600 --> 03:44:31.520
in the world, he said.
But All said WW fans would not notice

3022
03:44:31.520 --> 03:44:35.079
immediate changes, noting that some changes
will be evolutionary, some changes will be

3023
03:44:35.319 --> 03:44:39.920
revolutionary. He also hinted at the
relaunch of WCW programming and storylines, probably

3024
03:44:41.000 --> 03:44:43.520
after the deal is finalized in February
or March. Hult Cogan may have a

3025
03:44:43.840 --> 03:44:48.280
role in the company, Bischoff said, but that agreement is not finalized.

3026
03:44:48.520 --> 03:44:54.040
WOW editor in chief Bill After and
editorial director Tim Twey interviewed Bischoff shortly after

3027
03:44:54.040 --> 03:44:56.799
the sale was announced rate On for
the exclusive interview with the man in charge

3028
03:44:56.959 --> 03:45:03.559
of the new wcw WW has been
knocked down so many times? Why do

3029
03:45:03.600 --> 03:45:07.120
you want to keep coming back to
try to save the federation. When I

3030
03:45:07.159 --> 03:45:09.120
first started talking to Brad Sea the
last March, I made it clear to

3031
03:45:09.200 --> 03:45:13.559
him that I thought WCW was going
to be for sale. Of course,

3032
03:45:13.639 --> 03:45:16.399
he looked at me with a kind
of confused look on his face and was

3033
03:45:16.520 --> 03:45:20.040
rather shocked. I let him know
that I was going to make an attempt

3034
03:45:20.040 --> 03:45:22.120
to buy the company. I wanted
to be very honest with him about it.

3035
03:45:22.239 --> 03:45:26.920
I didn't really come back until around
the middle of April. I tried

3036
03:45:26.920 --> 03:45:31.840
to make it work with that with
the new relationship that I had with Turner

3037
03:45:31.879 --> 03:45:33.959
and WCW. I came in,
for lack of a better way of saying

3038
03:45:33.959 --> 03:45:39.120
it, on a part time basis. I didn't have the kind of authority

3039
03:45:39.600 --> 03:45:41.959
or control over the product, but
I knew the company was going to end

3040
03:45:43.040 --> 03:45:46.399
up being for sale. After I
had been there for six or eight weeks,

3041
03:45:46.440 --> 03:45:50.879
I felt very uncomfortable with the direction
of the company creatively and somewhat frustrated

3042
03:45:50.920 --> 03:45:52.879
at my lack of ability to change
it because of my diminished role in the

3043
03:45:52.920 --> 03:45:56.600
company. I told Brad it'd be
better for me to step away. I

3044
03:45:56.639 --> 03:46:00.680
didn't believe that Vince Russo was going
to be successful with the things that he

3045
03:46:00.719 --> 03:46:05.680
wanted to do, but wasn't the
whole vision that Russo was one of the

3046
03:46:05.680 --> 03:46:09.200
guys who allegedly made the War Wrestling
Federation so successful. It's pretty obvious that

3047
03:46:09.479 --> 03:46:13.200
probably wasn't the case if you look
at what Russo did with this company during

3048
03:46:13.200 --> 03:46:16.399
the period of time that after I
left. He had four or five or

3049
03:46:16.440 --> 03:46:20.680
six months to work his magic,
and I don't think anyone saw anything magical

3050
03:46:20.760 --> 03:46:24.239
going on. The company lost a
lot of ground during that period. I

3051
03:46:24.280 --> 03:46:28.520
told Brad that it would be better
for w CWFI stepped away and let Russo

3052
03:46:28.600 --> 03:46:33.520
do whatever he thought he could do
without my interference. Either Russo would prove

3053
03:46:33.559 --> 03:46:37.200
that his philosophy was going to work
without me, or he was going to

3054
03:46:37.239 --> 03:46:41.479
fail. I felt very uncomfortable sending
next to someone and supporting a strategy that

3055
03:46:41.559 --> 03:46:43.440
in my heart I knew was wrong. So I told Brad, you're going

3056
03:46:43.479 --> 03:46:46.959
to need someone to go back to
if he fails. You'll need someone with

3057
03:46:48.079 --> 03:46:52.719
some level of credibility in case Russo's
strategy doesn't work. All three of us

3058
03:46:52.719 --> 03:46:56.399
agreed after it became clear that Russo
wasn't going to turn the company around.

3059
03:46:56.399 --> 03:47:00.440
Did you think to yourself I told
you so. No. I was cited

3060
03:47:00.479 --> 03:47:03.159
in some respect, but because it
was something I felt was going to happen,

3061
03:47:03.479 --> 03:47:07.559
and it was happening. It was
a great opportunity and I still think

3062
03:47:07.559 --> 03:47:09.639
it is. Otherwise I wouldn't have
gone through with it. It wasn't an

3063
03:47:09.639 --> 03:47:13.959
I told you so. What makes
you keep coming back? Why are you

3064
03:47:13.000 --> 03:47:16.440
so attached? I love the business
now, this is what I've done for

3065
03:47:16.479 --> 03:47:20.680
the past fifteen years. It's either
a blessing or a burden. I believe

3066
03:47:20.719 --> 03:47:22.399
in the business, and I believe
in a lot of people, of the

3067
03:47:22.440 --> 03:47:26.879
people in the talent who are here. I think professional wrestling has yet to

3068
03:47:26.920 --> 03:47:30.399
reach its peak in terms of popularity. I think there's a long way to

3069
03:47:30.440 --> 03:47:33.719
go, even though we're at a
great spot. I think we at WW

3070
03:47:33.840 --> 03:47:39.079
are responsible for growing that category.
We've made Monday Nights important. We created

3071
03:47:39.120 --> 03:47:43.479
the competition and got people talking about
it, writing about it. And thinking

3072
03:47:43.479 --> 03:47:48.239
about it. Nitro started having a
negative impact on Monday night football ratings,

3073
03:47:48.360 --> 03:47:52.719
and then the we started to grow
and become such a dominant force in the

3074
03:47:52.760 --> 03:47:56.760
industry, and I feel like we're
part of that. There's more ground to

3075
03:47:56.799 --> 03:48:00.520
be gained, and I can't walk
away from opportunity like this. I feel

3076
03:48:00.520 --> 03:48:05.280
like we're part of that. Oh
that Minnesota slips into those words. Would

3077
03:48:05.280 --> 03:48:11.360
you feel successful only if you eventually
surpassed the WWF and Nielsen ratings? No,

3078
03:48:11.600 --> 03:48:15.559
but this is part of it.
I would be lying if I didn't

3079
03:48:15.559 --> 03:48:20.239
admit to that. There you go, They're number one, They're the incumbent.

3080
03:48:20.440 --> 03:48:24.920
People are always going to compare the
WWF with WCW or vincick Man with

3081
03:48:24.079 --> 03:48:28.239
Eric Bischoff. I want to come
out on top of that comparison. But

3082
03:48:28.360 --> 03:48:33.440
that's not the most important thing.
The most important thing is to keep this

3083
03:48:33.600 --> 03:48:37.120
business alive. We'ren't a great place
to work, and we have great opportunities

3084
03:48:37.120 --> 03:48:41.079
for good people. The second most
important thing is to grow the business so

3085
03:48:41.120 --> 03:48:46.360
that it can last a long time
and continue to prosper. Obviously, it's

3086
03:48:46.360 --> 03:48:50.840
going to be profitable. That's what
I'm here for. Can you beat the

3087
03:48:50.879 --> 03:48:54.399
WWF and the Nielsen ratings. And
I just asked this question, and is

3088
03:48:54.440 --> 03:48:56.520
there a personal vendetta between you and
Vince McMahon. Please say yes. I've

3089
03:48:58.239 --> 03:49:03.719
already done it, I think improved
to a certain degree that it can be

3090
03:49:03.799 --> 03:49:07.680
done. Unfortunately I didn't sustain it
for as long as I would have liked

3091
03:49:07.760 --> 03:49:09.840
to. It's not personal at all. In order for this company to be

3092
03:49:09.920 --> 03:49:13.479
where I want it to be,
you have to surpass the high mark the

3093
03:49:13.600 --> 03:49:20.079
ww is set. But it's not
personal anyway. I don't know the man,

3094
03:49:20.360 --> 03:49:24.239
so it can't be. Are your
new ideas for the Federation coming from

3095
03:49:24.239 --> 03:49:26.920
another part of pop culture or are
you thinking, let's go back to a

3096
03:49:26.920 --> 03:49:31.159
good wrestling show and people will come
back and watch it. It's both the

3097
03:49:31.239 --> 03:49:35.600
audience's appetite changes and its perception of
the product changes. You have to you

3098
03:49:35.639 --> 03:49:39.920
have to change and adapt to the
audience, or you just die and go

3099
03:49:39.040 --> 03:49:43.959
away. I want to find some
revolutionary ways to present the product. I

3100
03:49:45.040 --> 03:49:48.399
want to do some things that have
never been done before, but I don't

3101
03:49:48.440 --> 03:49:52.799
want to do that at the expense
of formulas that we know work. It's

3102
03:49:52.840 --> 03:49:58.399
a pretty simple formula, but complex
in the sense that you have to find

3103
03:49:58.520 --> 03:50:01.959
new and different ways of present sending
it to keep it fresh and interesting.

3104
03:50:01.719 --> 03:50:05.479
I don't want to. I don't
want anyone to think that we're going to

3105
03:50:05.520 --> 03:50:09.799
go back to just a wrestling show. Yeah, there's going to be great

3106
03:50:09.840 --> 03:50:13.399
action, and I think the wrestling
is going to improve. Critics have said

3107
03:50:13.479 --> 03:50:16.040
WCW has started to resemble a lower
quality version of the WWF. How do

3108
03:50:16.040 --> 03:50:20.680
you avoid that perception? I think
that's being kind. I think it started

3109
03:50:20.680 --> 03:50:26.079
to resemble backyard wrestling. I don't
think there's any comparison to what goes on

3110
03:50:26.079 --> 03:50:31.280
in the WWE. They got to
experiment and it didn't work. Everybody watches

3111
03:50:31.319 --> 03:50:35.000
wrestling for different reasons. Not every
wrestling fan thinks the same about the product.

3112
03:50:35.399 --> 03:50:41.040
The one thing you can you can
say fairly safely is that that people

3113
03:50:41.120 --> 03:50:45.559
watch wrestling to see people wrestle,
not to see guys who are actually pretty

3114
03:50:45.639 --> 03:50:50.399
bad. Actors and comedians try to
be funny. Amen to that. That's

3115
03:50:50.440 --> 03:50:54.000
not what we do best. And
I think there's been too much time spend

3116
03:50:54.040 --> 03:50:58.600
backstage trying to be funny and entertaining, and not enough time spend telling,

3117
03:50:58.840 --> 03:51:01.280
trying to tell a great story that
ends up in a great match in the

3118
03:51:01.280 --> 03:51:05.799
middle of the ring. That'll be
the difference. As I told the wrestlers

3119
03:51:05.799 --> 03:51:09.600
today, the goal is going to
be is going to be to paint pictures

3120
03:51:09.600 --> 03:51:13.799
with broader strokes, much brighter colors. Right now, I would describe WW

3121
03:51:13.840 --> 03:51:18.600
as various shades of gray. The
stories are hard to follow, the characters

3122
03:51:18.639 --> 03:51:20.719
are all kind of the same,
and it just feels dark, gloomy,

3123
03:51:20.719 --> 03:51:24.280
and foggy to me. It doesn't
feel like there's energy. It's absolutely right

3124
03:51:24.319 --> 03:51:28.440
about that. Those are great adjectives
to describe WW in two thousand and one.

3125
03:51:28.799 --> 03:51:31.719
Yes, I heard you want to
keep WW a little cleaner than the

3126
03:51:31.799 --> 03:51:33.920
WWF, with noble gardies and not
as much sexual innuendo. Is there a

3127
03:51:33.920 --> 03:51:37.840
place for that type of show.
I don't think the WWE has any of

3128
03:51:37.879 --> 03:51:41.280
those things. I think it was
two years ago. I think the ww

3129
03:51:41.479 --> 03:51:46.200
right now is like the Wonderful World's
Disney Compared to what it was two years

3130
03:51:46.200 --> 03:51:48.319
ago. They don't have the language
they used to have, they don't have

3131
03:51:48.440 --> 03:51:54.760
the sex, they don't have the
rats, they don't have a lot of

3132
03:51:54.760 --> 03:51:56.879
the type of content that cut them
to the Dan's two or three years ago.

3133
03:51:58.280 --> 03:52:01.319
They've toned down dramatically. In fact, they are safer in many respects

3134
03:52:01.360 --> 03:52:05.719
than ww's right now. I'm not
worried about that. I think the playing

3135
03:52:05.760 --> 03:52:11.719
field is much more level than that
it's ever been. If you've noticed what's

3136
03:52:11.760 --> 03:52:15.280
happened to RAW since moved to TNN, it's viacom. It's a much bigger

3137
03:52:15.319 --> 03:52:18.639
company and much more conservative. The
WWE is no longer doing a lot of

3138
03:52:18.680 --> 03:52:22.280
the things that it did to really
displace ww's number one two years ago.

3139
03:52:22.559 --> 03:52:28.280
Extreme Championship Wrestling has financial problems.
Would you consider an invasion storyline to boost

3140
03:52:28.280 --> 03:52:33.319
both federations? No? Why?
With the New World Order? That concept

3141
03:52:33.319 --> 03:52:37.760
worked because two of the key players
at the beginning, Scott Hall and Kevin

3142
03:52:37.840 --> 03:52:41.719
Nash, came in and had a
personal grudge against WW because of the way

3143
03:52:41.760 --> 03:52:45.760
they were treated when they were here
previously. That was the premise of the

3144
03:52:45.879 --> 03:52:50.319
nWo angle. They showed up,
they were pissed, and they were coming

3145
03:52:50.719 --> 03:52:54.520
back to make everybody pay. That
story began to grow and it was essentially

3146
03:52:54.520 --> 03:52:58.440
the wrestlers against the company. That
story played itself out over the course of

3147
03:52:58.479 --> 03:53:01.920
a few years and it worked.
Then the WWE did the same thing with

3148
03:53:03.000 --> 03:53:07.040
the Generation X. Way was the
wrestlers against the company. Then it was

3149
03:53:07.120 --> 03:53:09.719
Steve Austin against Vince McMahon. How
many different ways can you tell the same

3150
03:53:09.760 --> 03:53:13.680
story and keep it interesting? I
think it's time to get away from that

3151
03:53:13.799 --> 03:53:16.719
premise and come up with some new
things where it's about the wrestler against the

3152
03:53:16.760 --> 03:53:20.079
wrestler. How do you respond to
the critics who say you have to steal

3153
03:53:20.120 --> 03:53:24.680
performers such as The Rock, Steve
Austin or Triple H to get fans to

3154
03:53:24.719 --> 03:53:28.479
be interested. That's what happened when
National Hall jumped to WCW. We didn't

3155
03:53:28.520 --> 03:53:33.920
steal anybody. They jumped over after
their contracts were done. Those opportunities are

3156
03:53:33.920 --> 03:53:37.680
no longer there. McMahon woke up
one day and he heard we were going

3157
03:53:37.719 --> 03:53:41.440
to do a launch show called Nitro. He tuned in and at one point

3158
03:53:41.520 --> 03:53:43.399
during that show, Lex Luger showed
up and was a part of Nitro.

3159
03:53:43.879 --> 03:53:46.440
If I'm McMahon, I'm thinking,
hey, wait a minute, he works

3160
03:53:46.479 --> 03:53:50.200
for me? Why is he on
the show? What do you mean doesn't

3161
03:53:50.200 --> 03:53:52.559
work for me? What do you
mean as contract is up? Who let

3162
03:53:52.639 --> 03:53:56.319
that happen? If you add that
to the Hall in that situation, McMahon

3163
03:53:56.399 --> 03:53:58.719
learned his lesson. You don't let
key pieces of talent become available without knowing

3164
03:53:58.760 --> 03:54:03.799
about and managing it. I'm sure
that the Rock in Austin, everybody else

3165
03:54:03.799 --> 03:54:07.479
in the WWE is tied up for
long for a long period of time.

3166
03:54:07.559 --> 03:54:09.079
If there were no contracts, would
you who would you want to sign?

3167
03:54:11.719 --> 03:54:16.079
Obviously it would be the Rock.
I really respect what he's done with his

3168
03:54:16.120 --> 03:54:18.719
career, and I respect the way
he presents himself to the public. Beyond

3169
03:54:18.760 --> 03:54:22.639
that, I'm not sure. Not
that I wouldn't want other people, but

3170
03:54:24.079 --> 03:54:28.159
I'm not sure there is any person
who would be that critical to our success.

3171
03:54:28.319 --> 03:54:31.760
Do you regret any of the losses
of talent you've endured to Austin and

3172
03:54:31.799 --> 03:54:37.159
Triple H? Not Triple H.
He's done a great job and he's got

3173
03:54:37.159 --> 03:54:39.559
an important role in the WWE,
But I don't look at that as WCW's

3174
03:54:39.559 --> 03:54:43.520
loss. It just doesn't. I
just don't think Austin would have gotten over

3175
03:54:43.559 --> 03:54:50.360
here. Oh my god, he
said that in two thousand and one.

3176
03:54:52.840 --> 03:54:54.840
I mean not to mention that he
was extremely over as a heel in like

3177
03:54:56.040 --> 03:54:58.479
ninety three, but na, he
wouldn't have gotten over here, right.

3178
03:55:01.879 --> 03:55:03.879
The opportunity wouldn't have been here for
us because there was a lot of other

3179
03:55:03.959 --> 03:55:07.719
people who were at a much higher
level. He was in that right spot

3180
03:55:07.719 --> 03:55:11.639
at the right time of the WWE. The things he did flip everybody off

3181
03:55:11.639 --> 03:55:16.799
and chug Beer worked for him and
the WW on USA that wouldn't have worked

3182
03:55:16.799 --> 03:55:20.159
in WCW. It made him real, controversial and kind of every man's hero.

3183
03:55:20.799 --> 03:55:24.319
If McMahon called you tomorrow and said, let's get together, maybe we

3184
03:55:24.360 --> 03:55:26.879
can do a Super Bowl of Wrestling. It's good for a business for everyone.

3185
03:55:26.079 --> 03:55:30.559
What would you say, what I
heard super Bowl of Wrestling. Knew

3186
03:55:30.600 --> 03:55:35.680
that I heard something about idea Eric
Eric, I like to say that that

3187
03:55:35.799 --> 03:55:39.399
was my idea, and I'm I'm
gonna let you borrow it. Okay,

3188
03:55:39.719 --> 03:55:43.399
okay, but I take ninety percent
of the idea, ninety percent of your

3189
03:55:45.000 --> 03:55:50.239
intellectual property of yourself. After that, they after they woke me up,

3190
03:55:50.280 --> 03:55:54.680
I say, it's an interesting idea, but realistically it's not going to happen.

3191
03:55:54.319 --> 03:55:58.600
It's like asking how I would react
to winning six hundred million dollars in

3192
03:55:58.639 --> 03:56:03.079
the lottery. Obviously I'd be happy, but strange things happen in this business.

3193
03:56:03.079 --> 03:56:05.680
People who would never work together come
together if it's good for business.

3194
03:56:07.120 --> 03:56:11.559
I just don't see it. This
is a smart man who's operating a business

3195
03:56:11.559 --> 03:56:16.200
that is very successful. I'd be
interested in having the conversation, but realistically

3196
03:56:16.239 --> 03:56:18.280
it's just not going to happen.
There's the perception that WW is going to

3197
03:56:18.280 --> 03:56:20.959
be the good old Boys Network again. You're type with Domon Dallas, Page,

3198
03:56:22.000 --> 03:56:24.799
Hull, Coogan, Nash, and
Randy Savage. Is there a place

3199
03:56:24.840 --> 03:56:28.920
for the older wrestlers in the new
WCW sure? I think a lot of

3200
03:56:28.920 --> 03:56:31.600
that is blown out of proportion.
I'm very good friends with Hulk Cogan.

3201
03:56:31.799 --> 03:56:35.639
I talked to him almost daily and
have for the past couple of years.

3202
03:56:35.159 --> 03:56:37.600
I have a tremendous amount of respect
for him, and I think he's a

3203
03:56:37.680 --> 03:56:41.799
valuable asset. He's either going to
be a valuable asset here, a valuable

3204
03:56:41.840 --> 03:56:46.239
asset to the WWE, or he's
going to be a valuable asset doing his

3205
03:56:46.280 --> 03:56:48.719
own thing. Hogan and I have
been in the same meetings with other people

3206
03:56:48.760 --> 03:56:52.479
who are interested in getting into the
wrestling business, so I know what his

3207
03:56:52.520 --> 03:56:58.600
opportunities are because I almost became part
of it. He has some real opportunities.

3208
03:56:58.719 --> 03:57:01.319
I really don't know I don't.
I really don't want to have to

3209
03:57:01.399 --> 03:57:05.120
compete against him. Hogan is a
very smart man. He knows what his

3210
03:57:05.159 --> 03:57:09.479
strengths and weaknesses are. His ego
isn't nearly as big as people blow it

3211
03:57:09.479 --> 03:57:18.959
out of proportion. Uh, well, I must there. I hope he's

3212
03:57:18.760 --> 03:57:22.280
I hope he's here. Nash is
a good friend of mine. I don't

3213
03:57:22.360 --> 03:57:24.879
talk to him every day. Even
that relationship to a degree, has been

3214
03:57:24.879 --> 03:57:28.639
blown out of proportion. He has
a lot of talent, he's a smart

3215
03:57:28.639 --> 03:57:31.719
guy, and he has a lot
to offer properly motivated, He's one of

3216
03:57:31.719 --> 03:57:35.040
the most important people in the business. There's a fear that if Hogan comes

3217
03:57:35.040 --> 03:57:37.200
back, he'll be the number one
contender in WCW fans be watching the Legends

3218
03:57:37.200 --> 03:57:43.200
of Wrestling again. I hear that
all the time, and it just makes

3219
03:57:43.239 --> 03:57:48.479
me laugh. That kind of criticism
is coming from people who really don't know

3220
03:57:48.520 --> 03:57:52.200
anything about me or what my goals
are. Yeah, Hogan was in the

3221
03:57:52.200 --> 03:57:54.399
middle of things, and oh,
by the way, it happened to be

3222
03:57:54.559 --> 03:57:58.079
worked pretty well. And yeah,
Nash was an important part of everything we

3223
03:57:58.120 --> 03:58:01.479
did with the nWo, and oh, by the way, it was pretty

3224
03:58:01.520 --> 03:58:05.399
successful. I've used these guys,
but I've had a fair amount of success

3225
03:58:05.440 --> 03:58:07.959
with them. It's not like I
excluded other people. No one knew who

3226
03:58:09.040 --> 03:58:13.360
Chris Jericho was before I brought him
to w CW. He literally, he

3227
03:58:13.440 --> 03:58:18.879
literally was wrestling in obscurity somewhere in
Mexico. Chris bin Ware, you talking

3228
03:58:18.879 --> 03:58:22.479
about Guerrero. Although the wrestling community
kind of knew who they were and certainly

3229
03:58:22.520 --> 03:58:26.159
was familiar with them, the national
television audience had never heard of them until

3230
03:58:26.520 --> 03:58:31.440
we made them a prominent part of
our show. They were very successful part

3231
03:58:31.440 --> 03:58:33.840
of Nitro. If you look at
the Young Dragons, guess who hired them.

3232
03:58:35.399 --> 03:58:37.280
I sought them out. When you
see Shane Helms, guess where he

3233
03:58:37.319 --> 03:58:41.920
came from. We so didn't bring
him in here. I did. It's

3234
03:58:41.920 --> 03:58:45.600
not that I didn't recognize the need
to bring in fresh talent. I recognized

3235
03:58:45.639 --> 03:58:48.920
this several years ago, and I
acted on it. There's a place for

3236
03:58:48.040 --> 03:58:52.079
established name, but not at the
expense of new talent. Your wife,

3237
03:58:52.159 --> 03:58:54.799
Laurie must be thinking, oh my
god, he's getting years to go back

3238
03:58:54.840 --> 03:58:58.520
and do this again. How will
this return affect your personal life? That's

3239
03:58:58.799 --> 03:59:01.079
that's funny. We were just talking
about that when I first left the company

3240
03:59:01.159 --> 03:59:05.159
nineteen ninety nine. Seven years prior
to that, I was on the road

3241
03:59:05.200 --> 03:59:09.239
five days a week. When I
was home, I'd say hello to everyone,

3242
03:59:09.639 --> 03:59:11.799
if everyone a hug, eat a
meal, and then I'd crash.

3243
03:59:11.280 --> 03:59:15.079
My wife joked about it the other
day. She was kind of a single

3244
03:59:15.120 --> 03:59:18.760
parent in many regards. Then all
of a sudden I was underfoot all the

3245
03:59:18.799 --> 03:59:22.879
time, and she had to really
adjust her lifestyle. All of a sudden,

3246
03:59:22.920 --> 03:59:26.440
there was this guy in her couch
all day. We adjusted. We

3247
03:59:26.479 --> 03:59:28.879
had a great time, and we
did a lot of things we hadn't we

3248
03:59:28.000 --> 03:59:31.360
hadn't had the opportunity to do,
like travel. We have a home out

3249
03:59:31.440 --> 03:59:37.159
west. I love to fly fish. We took a couple of trips in

3250
03:59:37.399 --> 03:59:39.719
my plane. We did some fishing
together. It was great. The other

3251
03:59:39.760 --> 03:59:43.079
day she woke up realizing, oh
my god, he's going away again.

3252
03:59:43.159 --> 03:59:46.239
We'll adjust to that too. How
will your role change as president? Will

3253
03:59:46.239 --> 03:59:50.000
you be more behind the scenes.
I don't believe in the wrestler versus the

3254
03:59:50.040 --> 03:59:52.639
company storyline. I don't think there
is a role for me there anymore.

3255
03:59:52.680 --> 03:59:56.600
I'm not a wrestler. I don't
want to be arrestled. I'm not a

3256
03:59:56.639 --> 04:00:01.360
wrestler. I don't want to be
a wrestler. It is I'm too old

3257
04:00:01.399 --> 04:00:03.959
and fat to become one. I'm
going to do something else. I'm not

3258
04:00:03.000 --> 04:00:07.719
saying that I'm not going to be
on television. Perhaps initially I'll make a

3259
04:00:07.719 --> 04:00:11.799
statement and let everyone know that something
has changed. I might. It'll probably

3260
04:00:11.840 --> 04:00:16.360
only be a one time situation.
Did he just come all the way back

3261
04:00:16.399 --> 04:00:20.319
around on that? Okay, you
were quite visible with the nWo and when

3262
04:00:20.360 --> 04:00:22.920
you came back in two thousand,
was there ever a point when you realized

3263
04:00:22.959 --> 04:00:26.399
it was not working anymore? It
was when Russo was still here. He

3264
04:00:26.440 --> 04:00:30.200
had written the show, he had
talked about it a little bit during the

3265
04:00:30.239 --> 04:00:33.200
week. I said, I'm not
doing that. It was too much about

3266
04:00:33.319 --> 04:00:37.799
Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo. I'm
never going to wrestle. I'm never going

3267
04:00:37.879 --> 04:00:41.479
to have a match that anyone is
going to want to spend money to see

3268
04:00:41.639 --> 04:00:46.520
or spend five minutes watching on television. I said, I just don't want

3269
04:00:46.520 --> 04:00:50.639
to do it anymore. It was
probably something in June. I went to

3270
04:00:50.719 --> 04:00:54.200
the sheet, saw my name on
five different segments and said I can't do

3271
04:00:54.280 --> 04:00:56.079
it. Well, I've never heard
that before. This interview will appear in

3272
04:00:56.079 --> 04:00:58.879
the and the Wow issue on newstands
in the beginning of March. Where would

3273
04:00:58.879 --> 04:01:05.000
you like WW to be at that
time? Even that's too soon to say.

3274
04:01:05.159 --> 04:01:07.239
The really big chances are going to
take place in the next four to

3275
04:01:07.360 --> 04:01:13.719
six months. Every even something as
simple as changing the graphics on the show

3276
04:01:13.799 --> 04:01:16.719
take a long takes a long time. I think we're going to see new

3277
04:01:16.760 --> 04:01:20.799
talent relatively quickly. I think people
are going to see the commitment that I'm

3278
04:01:20.840 --> 04:01:28.120
going to make it finding, developing
and promoting new stars. It's a pretty

3279
04:01:28.120 --> 04:01:33.840
innovative approach. I think it's going
to work. I may not, but

3280
04:01:33.000 --> 04:01:37.000
it will become very visible to people
right away. They'll see more of an

3281
04:01:37.040 --> 04:01:41.479
emphasis on what goes on inside the
ring. I think they will definitely notice

3282
04:01:41.520 --> 04:01:46.639
that the cruiserweight division is a more
important part of w CW than it has

3283
04:01:46.680 --> 04:01:52.440
been. The stories are going to
become clearer and easier to understand. I

3284
04:01:52.479 --> 04:01:56.079
think surprises are such an important part
of what we do. Just ask ed

3285
04:01:56.200 --> 04:02:13.559
Ferrara Right's Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with
Jack n Seo and JP Sooro a Lapse

3286
04:02:13.680 --> 04:02:18.799
Fan Wrestling podcast, are you going
to start from scratch the last time he

3287
04:02:18.879 --> 04:02:22.120
came back, all the titles were
up for grabs. We'll start in a

3288
04:02:22.200 --> 04:02:26.239
much different way. Russo and I
wanted to do that differently, but it

3289
04:02:26.239 --> 04:02:30.680
would have involved going off the air
for some time and TNT just wasn't prepared

3290
04:02:30.719 --> 04:02:33.040
to let us do that. We
had to compromise a little bit. But

3291
04:02:33.200 --> 04:02:37.040
I don't want to give you the
impression that all the titles are going to

3292
04:02:37.079 --> 04:02:41.079
be up for grabs. How do
you get connected to Fusian Media? The

3293
04:02:41.120 --> 04:02:48.239
company that purchased WCW purchased Purchase Done
It's tense. I found the company.

3294
04:02:48.840 --> 04:02:54.280
I'm partners with Jason Hervey of TV's
The Wonder Years on a couple of projects.

3295
04:02:54.719 --> 04:02:58.840
Jason knew what I was going to
do, and I had talked to

3296
04:02:58.879 --> 04:03:03.319
a couple of people about buying WCW. Jason called me one day and mentioned

3297
04:03:03.319 --> 04:03:05.879
that he had a conversation with one
of the partners at Fusion and that I

3298
04:03:05.879 --> 04:03:11.760
should give him a call. I
was introduced to Brad Biddall, our CEO

3299
04:03:11.840 --> 04:03:13.600
and my partner. I talked to
him quite a bit about it, and

3300
04:03:15.120 --> 04:03:18.799
then we started moving forward. So
I had to do with Jason Hervey.

3301
04:03:18.000 --> 04:03:22.879
Big surprise, did you ever say
to him, w'w's projected to lose eighty

3302
04:03:22.920 --> 04:03:26.479
million dollars? Who would want you
to buy in the company. No,

3303
04:03:26.520 --> 04:03:30.239
No, he's a smart guy.
He knew, you know, we talked.

3304
04:03:30.280 --> 04:03:33.040
We talked right off the bat of
why things were going wrong. We

3305
04:03:33.159 --> 04:03:39.799
knew what needed to be done and
how to turn it around. Wow Jesus,

3306
04:03:39.920 --> 04:03:43.239
the contemporaneous thoughts of Eric Bischoff.
I'll say, what could have been

3307
04:03:45.079 --> 04:03:50.040
what ended up being ultimately was that
the Vince Russeau lawsuits were still playing out

3308
04:03:50.079 --> 04:03:52.479
in the courts, as Bischoff said
in response to that one question there,

3309
04:03:54.319 --> 04:03:58.319
and there's a lot of until we
did our bachel of the Beach two thousand

3310
04:03:58.399 --> 04:04:03.760
coverage, under discovered intrigue going on
as it regards Hulk Cogan in this show

3311
04:04:03.760 --> 04:04:07.120
on the dying days of WCW,
and a lot of gamesmanship, and we're

3312
04:04:07.159 --> 04:04:09.680
going to revisit a bit of it, certainly not covered in as exhausting detail

3313
04:04:09.719 --> 04:04:13.000
as we did back on the Bash
at the Beach two thousand episodes, But

3314
04:04:13.040 --> 04:04:16.360
there are some things we talked about
there that really ought to be on the

3315
04:04:16.360 --> 04:04:20.719
Greed Show, which we had no
plans to do at the time. Because

3316
04:04:20.719 --> 04:04:24.200
they concerned greed in particular, if
you can pull up the Meyers Hogan memo

3317
04:04:24.319 --> 04:04:28.920
Boss that I had sent to you, Diana Myers was pretty much WCW's lead

3318
04:04:28.959 --> 04:04:35.959
attorney, the person that would dash
off memos and such. Here's one dated

3319
04:04:37.760 --> 04:04:39.280
Let's see what the date is,
March eighth, two thousand and one,

3320
04:04:39.520 --> 04:04:43.040
yeap, so just a week before
the ww Greed pay per view, and

3321
04:04:43.639 --> 04:04:46.360
it starts with a reference. This
is a letter to Hulk Cogan's lawyer,

3322
04:04:46.440 --> 04:04:50.200
John Taylor, to a conversation that
apparently she had had with Henry Holmes,

3323
04:04:50.239 --> 04:04:56.959
another one of Terry's lawyer's brother,
regarding Terry BOLEYA Dear John, As you

3324
04:04:56.000 --> 04:05:01.200
know, on Monday, I called
Henry Holmes to inquire to Terry's desire to

3325
04:05:01.239 --> 04:05:05.719
appear and perform at the March WCW
pay per view event. Henry told me

3326
04:05:05.799 --> 04:05:09.719
he would check and call me back. I called Henry again on Tuesday,

3327
04:05:09.760 --> 04:05:11.440
and Henry informed me that I needed
to call you. On Tuesday, we

3328
04:05:11.479 --> 04:05:16.680
spoke and I made the same inquiry
as to Terry's desire. Despite my follow

3329
04:05:16.760 --> 04:05:20.760
up phone calls, I have yet
to receive a response. Absent Terry's response,

3330
04:05:20.040 --> 04:05:24.280
He is being scheduled to appear in
perform on March eighteenth, two thousand

3331
04:05:24.319 --> 04:05:28.360
and one, at the WCW event
in Jacksonville, Florida. His scheduled report

3332
04:05:28.399 --> 04:05:33.239
time is two o'clock PM Eastern Time. A member of the creative team will

3333
04:05:33.239 --> 04:05:35.239
be in contact with Terry in the
next couple of days to discuss his appearance

3334
04:05:35.399 --> 04:05:39.280
in case the creative team also have
difficulty reaching Terry. Please have word for

3335
04:05:39.399 --> 04:05:43.840
Terry. Please leave word for Terry
to contact John Lauri Andidis And it has

3336
04:05:43.840 --> 04:05:46.239
his phone number in hear I hope
that's still not his phone number. Oh

3337
04:05:46.319 --> 04:05:50.440
my god, to discuss his appearance. Thank you for your assistance in this

3338
04:05:50.520 --> 04:05:52.879
regard, Sincerely, Diana Meyers.
So there it is a fac simile on

3339
04:05:54.000 --> 04:05:58.799
WW letterhead putting Hulkogan's attorneys on notice
that he is now being scheduled to appear

3340
04:05:58.840 --> 04:06:05.280
as his wsw's under his contract to
book him on Greed. That's insane,

3341
04:06:05.680 --> 04:06:09.920
Like, that's insane. That there, I mean that he's being booked to

3342
04:06:11.000 --> 04:06:16.559
be on Greed ten days before the
show, right, And of course this

3343
04:06:16.600 --> 04:06:20.680
is where the whole thing kicks in
about my contract does let you book me?

3344
04:06:20.719 --> 04:06:22.000
But it also says, I have
to be the featured performer, and

3345
04:06:22.079 --> 04:06:26.079
part of being the featured performer implies
some kind of storyline that builds my matchup

3346
04:06:26.079 --> 04:06:30.040
as the most important thing. If
you just give me a date to show

3347
04:06:30.120 --> 04:06:33.079
up with no said storyline, how
could I possibly be the futured performer.

3348
04:06:33.280 --> 04:06:35.239
And we got into all that in
the batch of the Beach Show. But

3349
04:06:35.280 --> 04:06:43.120
here is the response from a Attorney
Taylor to that missive in and Around the

3350
04:06:43.120 --> 04:06:46.360
Intrigue of Greed March twelve, two
thousand and one. Dear Diana, I'm

3351
04:06:46.360 --> 04:06:52.959
writing in response to your March eighth
letter which purports to require mister Bolia to

3352
04:06:52.000 --> 04:06:54.959
appear and perform at the w w
PA Perview event scheduled in March eighteenth,

3353
04:06:54.959 --> 04:06:58.879
two thousand and one in Jacksonville,
Florida. We are astonished at the contents

3354
04:06:58.879 --> 04:07:03.399
of your letter. As you know, the most recent contract between WCW mister

3355
04:07:03.399 --> 04:07:07.360
Bullaya, namely the May twenty ninth, nineteen ninety eight letter agreement, as

3356
04:07:07.360 --> 04:07:11.239
amended by the April seventh, two
thousand letter Agreement, was carefully drafted to

3357
04:07:11.239 --> 04:07:15.920
protect and enhance the value of the
Hulkogan character in image. Under the contract,

3358
04:07:16.000 --> 04:07:20.760
WCW promised to promote mister Bullaiya as
the featured wrestler quote unquote and each

3359
04:07:20.799 --> 04:07:24.399
of six pay per view events during
each contract year. In the contract,

3360
04:07:24.479 --> 04:07:28.719
WCW also promised to give certain creative
control rights to mister Bolaya to protect the

3361
04:07:28.760 --> 04:07:33.040
valuable rights in the Hulkogan character in
image and to avoid harming or otherwise devaluing

3362
04:07:33.040 --> 04:07:37.319
that character. The most recent contract
year commenced on May twenty nine, two

3363
04:07:37.399 --> 04:07:41.799
thousand. Since that date, w
CW has promoted nine pay per view events.

3364
04:07:41.840 --> 04:07:46.680
Thus far, w W promoted mister
Bulaia in only two of these events,

3365
04:07:46.719 --> 04:07:50.120
the June eleventh Great American Bash and
the July ninth Bash at the Beach.

3366
04:07:50.639 --> 04:07:54.920
In breach of its promises under the
contract at WCW did not promote mister

3367
04:07:54.920 --> 04:08:00.200
Bullaya as the featured wrestler at either
of these events. Moreover, there's back

3368
04:08:00.200 --> 04:08:03.079
to the July ninth event. WW
deliberately breached mister Blay's right to exercise creative

3369
04:08:03.079 --> 04:08:07.840
control as of course being Bash of
the Beach, and WW broadcast a false

3370
04:08:07.840 --> 04:08:11.719
intffamatory speech by Vince Russo that was
calculated to harm and to value the Hull

3371
04:08:11.799 --> 04:08:13.799
Cogan character in image mister Russo cut
the Hull COVID character out of all the

3372
04:08:13.840 --> 04:08:18.040
existing storylines and told the national audience
that they will never see that piece of

3373
04:08:18.079 --> 04:08:22.559
shit again. As a result of
these outrageous actions, mister Blay filed his

3374
04:08:22.600 --> 04:08:26.040
lawsuit against WCW mister Russo. In
the lawsuit, we asserted that WCW's wrongful

3375
04:08:26.079 --> 04:08:31.000
actions constitute a repudiation of their essential
obligations under the agreement, such that Hogan

3376
04:08:31.079 --> 04:08:35.479
should not be required to perform further
under the agreement in order to prevent further

3377
04:08:35.719 --> 04:08:39.680
irreparable harm and damage to his character
and image. The lawsuit specifically seeks,

3378
04:08:39.719 --> 04:08:45.520
among other relief, a judgment against
WCW declaring in adjudicain and a judging that

3379
04:08:45.639 --> 04:08:50.479
WCW has repudiated its obligations under the
agreement such that Hogan is no longer required

3380
04:08:50.520 --> 04:08:54.520
to perform under the agreement. So
they're saying that russo'speech was so defamatory that

3381
04:08:54.559 --> 04:08:58.520
it violated the contract and thus made
the contract null and void. Thus,

3382
04:08:58.559 --> 04:09:01.159
Hulk Cogan does not have to make
the appear, and since the contract require

3383
04:09:01.239 --> 04:09:05.600
him to make got that it'll be
important I get to cast checks though,

3384
04:09:05.639 --> 04:09:09.440
right, brother, you nailed it. In July, mister Russo told mister

3385
04:09:09.440 --> 04:09:13.479
Bulaia that WSW had no plans for
mister Blay's services and was enable to conceive

3386
04:09:13.479 --> 04:09:16.680
of any storylines in which mister Bolaya
could play a role, let alone be

3387
04:09:16.719 --> 04:09:20.120
the featured wrestler as required by WCW's
contract. Now eight months later, the

3388
04:09:20.200 --> 04:09:24.440
situation remains exactly the same. WW
has no storylines or other plans that it

3389
04:09:24.440 --> 04:09:28.440
can identify for mister Bolaya. WW
is not articulated how it intends to promote

3390
04:09:28.440 --> 04:09:31.959
mister Bollaa as the featured wrestler for
the March eighteenth event. As you know,

3391
04:09:33.040 --> 04:09:35.879
the storylines for the March eighteenth event
have already been set, and the

3392
04:09:35.920 --> 04:09:39.719
feature wrestlers and featured matches have already
been advertised and promoted. I suggest that

3393
04:09:39.760 --> 04:09:41.639
you look at the WSW website to
see for yourself how this pay per view

3394
04:09:41.719 --> 04:09:46.399
is being promoted. Look at that. As has been widely reported in the

3395
04:09:46.440 --> 04:09:48.319
press, WW for the past three
months has been trying to close the sale

3396
04:09:48.559 --> 04:09:52.920
of the wrestling business to third parties. During that time, it has become

3397
04:09:52.959 --> 04:09:58.319
readily apparent that WCW involved with that. What do you mean third parties?

3398
04:09:58.280 --> 04:10:05.959
Nobody calm attacted me. I'm all
things third party as a third party.

3399
04:10:05.520 --> 04:10:13.760
He's not even running for anything,
He's forever a candidate. I don't see

3400
04:10:13.760 --> 04:10:18.559
why I can't be a third party
candidate to buy the wcwright Why not.

3401
04:10:20.799 --> 04:10:28.159
I'm friends with Tony Shavanni. I
worked alongside Tony Shavanni. Right, third

3402
04:10:28.239 --> 04:10:35.719
party ownership of w that's a good
shirt it All it says is third party

3403
04:10:35.719 --> 04:10:41.600
ownership of w CW. I'm a
third party owner. During that time,

3404
04:10:41.680 --> 04:10:45.719
it has become readily apparent that w
CW and its parent entities have lost all

3405
04:10:45.760 --> 04:10:50.959
interest in effectively promoting its current wrestling
talent. And let's go have a fucking

3406
04:10:50.040 --> 04:10:54.079
sick burn right there in the view
of the Penning Seale the wrestling operation,

3407
04:10:54.239 --> 04:10:58.600
it is unclear if there is anyone
who was in charge of the creative function

3408
04:10:58.680 --> 04:11:01.040
of w CW. The fact the
demand for mister Boler to appear at this

3409
04:11:01.079 --> 04:11:05.239
event comes from the legal department demonstrates
that w CW has no interest in promoting

3410
04:11:05.239 --> 04:11:09.799
mister Blay's character and image and in
appropriation. I meant even know who's in

3411
04:11:09.879 --> 04:11:11.639
charge? Brother, how much we
Diyana Myers, She's coming at me wide

3412
04:11:11.639 --> 04:11:15.040
open. She doesn't even have the
book, dude, Brother, that was

3413
04:11:15.079 --> 04:11:18.040
con Dallas thing back in. Dude, who is brother Myers? How do

3414
04:11:18.079 --> 04:11:22.559
I even know that's her name?
Brother? I d M me Diana Myers

3415
04:11:22.680 --> 04:11:26.600
Like, WHOA? I just want
to know, dude, do you even

3416
04:11:26.639 --> 04:11:28.440
know this person's real? Did you
send this memo? Brother? Did you

3417
04:11:28.520 --> 04:11:31.879
were we Janey Engele on the phone? Dude? Is Jenny Angel listening to

3418
04:11:31.920 --> 04:11:37.319
this call? Is j J.
Dillon going to buy w CW? Is

3419
04:11:37.399 --> 04:11:39.040
Turner on this call? Brother?
Where's Lean needed ericson? Brother? Did

3420
04:11:39.079 --> 04:11:43.479
she make an offer? Dude?
Die here. I'm just you're saying that

3421
04:11:43.639 --> 04:11:46.840
just going for a rose buying.
Jerry Jarrett gonna come in and cut costs?

3422
04:11:46.879 --> 04:11:54.799
Dude, I told Brad Siegel to
ignore that that offer. Well,

3423
04:11:54.840 --> 04:12:00.479
you heard Randy Savage's buying w CW. Brother, would you call John tut

3424
04:12:00.520 --> 04:12:03.959
this? I was talking about Brunos
Hamertino's binding. I just got off the

3425
04:12:03.959 --> 04:12:07.360
phone with Henry Holmes. Is Brunosymartino
gonna buy WCW? Brother? That's funny,

3426
04:12:07.399 --> 04:12:11.319
Terry, because I just got off
the phone with Henry Holmes and he

3427
04:12:11.319 --> 04:12:13.639
said Brunos Emertino's buying WW. And
then I called Bernos Emertino and he said,

3428
04:12:13.639 --> 04:12:22.559
Henry Holmes is buying WCW. Oh
God, under these circumstances, okay,

3429
04:12:24.360 --> 04:12:28.120
okay, But if WCW were permitted
to throw mister Bullaya into the event

3430
04:12:28.399 --> 04:12:33.079
with no legitimate storyline, well he
hasn't had a legitimate storyline in his whole

3431
04:12:33.120 --> 04:12:35.520
life. But no legitimate storyline,
with no creative planning, and with no

3432
04:12:35.559 --> 04:12:39.440
real interest in actually promoting mister Blay's
character in image, then this would inevitably

3433
04:12:39.479 --> 04:12:43.760
result in further irreparable harm and damage
to mister Bulay's character in image. He

3434
04:12:43.840 --> 04:12:50.600
is saying boss to appear at Greed
unadvertised would harm his image. That's how

3435
04:12:50.639 --> 04:12:54.600
poor WSW was at the time.
Damn right. Under these circumstances, it

3436
04:12:54.680 --> 04:12:58.959
is outrageous for WCW to demand that
mister Blay appear and perform at the March

3437
04:12:58.000 --> 04:13:03.200
eighteenth w w P by making this
demand, it appears that WCW intends to

3438
04:13:03.239 --> 04:13:07.520
inflict still more damage to the Hulk
Cogan character and image. For these reasons,

3439
04:13:07.719 --> 04:13:11.799
mister Bolea hereby rejects w c w's
demand that he appear and perform at

3440
04:13:11.799 --> 04:13:16.399
the March eighteenth event. Yes,
that contracts null and void, right,

3441
04:13:16.479 --> 04:13:18.000
boss, That's right? So what
were they going to have him do?

3442
04:13:18.159 --> 04:13:22.159
Well? Johnny Ace was under deposition, of course, as part of the

3443
04:13:22.280 --> 04:13:26.079
Vince Rousseau lawsuit, and he made
reference to something like this. They were

3444
04:13:26.120 --> 04:13:30.000
talking at first about an offer to
have him appear in February as they start

3445
04:13:30.000 --> 04:13:33.159
trying to play this game, I
think, honestly of offering hul Cogan dates

3446
04:13:33.159 --> 04:13:37.639
knowing he'd say no, and then
the one you mentioned in February, they

3447
04:13:37.639 --> 04:13:39.000
say to Johnny Ace to remember,
you know, what is a fair point?

3448
04:13:39.120 --> 04:13:43.680
They're okay, okay, going to
be booked in the March pay per

3449
04:13:43.760 --> 04:13:45.879
view. Why did you believe he
was going to be booked on that?

3450
04:13:46.040 --> 04:13:48.639
And a says, because he was
going to be part of this deal,

3451
04:13:48.760 --> 04:13:54.959
but it was going is going to
have to do with motorcycle run ins at

3452
04:13:54.000 --> 04:13:58.360
the end. What the fuck?
That is how Johnny A's characterized what they

3453
04:13:58.399 --> 04:14:01.000
had in mind for hul Cogan and
the Green Paper review motorcycle run ins at

3454
04:14:01.000 --> 04:14:09.120
the end, and he wasn't booked
in that way. But they talk about,

3455
04:14:09.159 --> 04:14:11.959
you know, you don't need you
don't need a storyline for hul Cogan.

3456
04:14:13.840 --> 04:14:15.639
Was there a storyline set up for
that? He said, there was

3457
04:14:15.719 --> 04:14:22.799
original storyline set up for him to
do a motorcycle ride and that was And

3458
04:14:22.959 --> 04:14:24.959
they asked him, was that written
up and he said no, that was

3459
04:14:24.000 --> 04:14:28.639
just verbal. But Bischoff himself wasn't
there for that, I believe, And

3460
04:14:28.680 --> 04:14:33.200
they already announced the company was shutting
down. Correct, That's when this whole

3461
04:14:33.239 --> 04:14:37.079
deal went south. Bischoff's Deeal Bischoff's
deal by the company, right, okay,

3462
04:14:37.520 --> 04:14:43.000
okay, February right at the end
of ever. He was going to

3463
04:14:43.079 --> 04:14:48.440
use Hogan and a bunch of guys, but that deal fell through, and

3464
04:14:48.440 --> 04:14:50.399
then I make fun of people.
Okay, this is from the show.

3465
04:14:50.000 --> 04:14:56.319
Okay. So the argument there being
that there was some there was some idea

3466
04:14:56.399 --> 04:14:58.719
expressed only verbally, so it doesn't
exist on paper to you know, submit

3467
04:15:00.040 --> 04:15:03.040
to satisfy John Taylor Apparently where there
was gonna be like a big series of

3468
04:15:03.040 --> 04:15:07.399
motorcycle run ins for the end of
Greed. Somebody asked Eric Bischoff about this.

3469
04:15:07.520 --> 04:15:09.280
It's now in the record. It's
been in the record ever since we

3470
04:15:09.319 --> 04:15:13.719
found these documents for our Bash at
the Beach two thousand show. Yet he

3471
04:15:13.840 --> 04:15:16.479
just pretends that there was never any
involvement from him, and what to do

3472
04:15:16.520 --> 04:15:20.959
with the greed show? What's this
motorcycle idea? We'd love to know.

3473
04:15:20.799 --> 04:15:24.719
And then they asked Brad Siegel,
did you make a conscious decision not to

3474
04:15:24.719 --> 04:15:28.159
butt hulk Cogan had any pay per
views after he filed that lawsuit over the

3475
04:15:28.239 --> 04:15:31.319
Russo thing, And he says,
I think there was a conscious decision to

3476
04:15:31.319 --> 04:15:35.799
not book for financial reasons. We
had. My recollection is that there was

3477
04:15:35.799 --> 04:15:39.319
a minimum amount of pay per views
that we had to use Helkogan in a

3478
04:15:39.319 --> 04:15:43.000
contraction period of time, and the
balance of we cannot afford to use Hulkogan

3479
04:15:43.040 --> 04:15:46.479
any longer after that in two thousand
and so, therefore we didn't. And

3480
04:15:46.520 --> 04:15:48.239
then so that was the reason why
there was It was not related to the

3481
04:15:48.319 --> 04:15:52.600
lawsuit. It was more of an
it was a financial issue. What the

3482
04:15:52.719 --> 04:15:56.000
fuck is going on exactly? And
they're just fucking they owe him six pay

3483
04:15:56.000 --> 04:15:58.840
per views a year, boss,
and they just decide, since they can

3484
04:16:00.079 --> 04:16:02.920
ford all the things, you have
to pay Hulk all the all the all

3485
04:16:02.920 --> 04:16:03.840
the money you have to take off
the top to get him to do it,

3486
04:16:03.879 --> 04:16:06.680
and the guaranteed payments. So they're
just not going to book them,

3487
04:16:06.680 --> 04:16:08.280
and therefore they don't have to pay
them. Who gives them? Who gives

3488
04:16:08.280 --> 04:16:14.000
a man a contract like this?
Life fuck? Exactly? He signed,

3489
04:16:14.040 --> 04:16:17.319
well, he signed an extension of
it in April two thousand, so he

3490
04:16:17.360 --> 04:16:21.040
doesn't have that excuse. You know
it was worth it, though, because

3491
04:16:21.280 --> 04:16:23.280
because we got FA f U N
B. Hogan Right, that's true.

3492
04:16:23.879 --> 04:16:27.520
You know how wonderful that worked out. And then his lawyer asks, because

3493
04:16:27.520 --> 04:16:30.120
if you used him you would have
to pay him more? Yes, did

3494
04:16:30.120 --> 04:16:33.520
the contract, so far as you
were aware, required that you use him

3495
04:16:33.520 --> 04:16:36.639
a minimum number of times? And
then there's an objection, and then a

3496
04:16:36.680 --> 04:16:38.280
seagull saystem my knowledge, it was
in a minimum. It was a minimum

3497
04:16:38.360 --> 04:16:41.879
number of times. How many times
was that? I don't remember exactly.

3498
04:16:41.959 --> 04:16:45.959
It was either four or six within
a contractual year period. Do you remember

3499
04:16:45.959 --> 04:16:48.520
what the contractual year was? No, I don't. I asked you that

3500
04:16:48.559 --> 04:16:52.200
before. Were you mindful and setting
up the matches of your need to schedule

3501
04:16:52.280 --> 04:16:56.520
them a certain number of times within
a contractual period? I was mindful.

3502
04:16:56.559 --> 04:16:59.120
I wasn't setting up the matches,
but the booking committee was mindful of it.

3503
04:16:59.440 --> 04:17:00.879
How do you know the looking commute
is mindful of that because it had

3504
04:17:00.879 --> 04:17:03.079
been discussed. It was a big, you know, financial obligation. We

3505
04:17:03.079 --> 04:17:06.360
were trying to manage a budget,
and that was a very large piece of

3506
04:17:06.399 --> 04:17:10.799
it. It was merely an accounting
issue. My understanding is that we did

3507
04:17:10.799 --> 04:17:12.920
not have to account for the money
that we had paid to Hogan in advance

3508
04:17:14.000 --> 04:17:15.399
to perform in the pay per views
until we actually used him in the pay

3509
04:17:15.399 --> 04:17:22.159
per views. Okay, so Siegel's
not worried about spending the money. He's

3510
04:17:22.200 --> 04:17:26.680
worried about when the money gets spent. When When When Because two thousands books

3511
04:17:26.680 --> 04:17:30.079
are not looking good and he wants
to play these games where we'll send Hogan

3512
04:17:30.719 --> 04:17:33.120
the money, but we won't book
it as an expense. We won't book

3513
04:17:33.120 --> 04:17:38.360
it as money coming out until later. So yeah, what's important to Brad

3514
04:17:38.440 --> 04:17:42.760
Siegel is not that they pay Hogan
the money or not. It's when they

3515
04:17:42.760 --> 04:17:45.760
pay him the money, because if
they pay him in two thousand, that

3516
04:17:45.760 --> 04:17:49.559
makes two thousand look a lot worse. But they got to advance him this

3517
04:17:49.600 --> 04:17:55.559
money. It's in there that they
have to pay him advances on his pay

3518
04:17:55.600 --> 04:17:59.239
per view appearances. They can't just
wait to use him, So it becomes

3519
04:17:59.319 --> 04:18:03.239
really weird. He says it was
merely an accounting issue. My understanding is

3520
04:18:03.280 --> 04:18:04.600
that we did not have to account
for the money that we had paid to

3521
04:18:04.639 --> 04:18:08.840
Hogan in advance to perform in the
pay per views until we actually used him

3522
04:18:08.840 --> 04:18:12.399
in the pay perviews. I mean, that's great. It was an accounting

3523
04:18:12.479 --> 04:18:17.680
issue because to me, we didn't
have to account. Right, Well,

3524
04:18:17.719 --> 04:18:21.079
we owe Hogan the money for six
pay per views in two thousand, we

3525
04:18:21.159 --> 04:18:25.319
won't have to actually cut the checks
until he appears at the next pay perview.

3526
04:18:25.600 --> 04:18:29.760
My god, that's when money's owed
would be due. So what we'll

3527
04:18:29.760 --> 04:18:32.600
do is we'll ice him for the
rest of two thousand and even though we're

3528
04:18:32.639 --> 04:18:37.280
incurring ultimately three million in expenses and
guarantees. It'll be better for our books.

3529
04:18:37.719 --> 04:18:41.799
We'll put those on twenty oh one's
books, okay, because two thousands

3530
04:18:41.840 --> 04:18:45.079
books are looking real bad and that'll
just make them look worse. And again,

3531
04:18:45.120 --> 04:18:48.680
as we know from Guy Evans and
so much of the stuff that's come

3532
04:18:48.680 --> 04:18:52.520
out, but the mentality Turner at
the time post merger, it was all

3533
04:18:52.559 --> 04:18:57.079
about making each division look as lean
and mean and profitable as possible. And

3534
04:18:57.159 --> 04:19:00.879
so with these guaranteed payments having to
go to Hulk Hogan. How can we

3535
04:19:00.920 --> 04:19:04.680
avoid having to show those as further
losses for what has been a disastrous two

3536
04:19:04.719 --> 04:19:11.000
thousand Well we'll just not actually record
them as having been paid until the next

3537
04:19:11.000 --> 04:19:15.920
time he shows up, which will
be never. It's unreal and that's all

3538
04:19:15.959 --> 04:19:18.399
going on deep behind the scenes at
a incredibly sensitive time. WW. No

3539
04:19:18.399 --> 04:19:22.399
one knew anything about this until your
boys fucking reached into that courthouse with the

3540
04:19:22.479 --> 04:19:26.760
labstand solar system resources and it's key
to history, key, key, key.

3541
04:19:27.760 --> 04:19:37.639
It's always an accounting gimmick. So
there you go, and the argument

3542
04:19:37.719 --> 04:19:41.159
is breach of contract and all that
shit. So basically, ultimately, as

3543
04:19:41.159 --> 04:19:44.440
we know in that case, a
judge did find cause to believe WW breech

3544
04:19:44.520 --> 04:19:48.600
Togan's contract and how it handled the
Bash of the Beach and how it promoted

3545
04:19:48.680 --> 04:19:52.159
him for Bash of the Beach as
a featured wrestler. Siegel says in the

3546
04:19:52.159 --> 04:19:56.159
deposition, WW lost twenty million in
ninety nine and close to eighty million in

3547
04:19:56.159 --> 04:19:57.879
two thousand, so that eighty million
would have been just that much. What

3548
04:19:57.959 --> 04:20:03.079
was worse if they had to book
six million plus dollar payouts to Hogan for

3549
04:20:03.159 --> 04:20:06.879
the pay per views that year,
and that he made a conscious decision not

3550
04:20:06.920 --> 04:20:10.159
to put hull Cogan on any future
shows in two thousand because the company couldn't

3551
04:20:10.159 --> 04:20:12.840
afford his guarantees and to avoid booking
costs in a certain accounting period. So,

3552
04:20:12.959 --> 04:20:17.959
despite claiming his contract had been breached
and therefore voided at Bash of the

3553
04:20:17.959 --> 04:20:21.479
Beach, what does hell Cogan do
with this breached and valid contract? What

3554
04:20:21.520 --> 04:20:23.680
does he do? He exercises his
right to get paid under that contract.

3555
04:20:23.760 --> 04:20:29.840
Just the same, he still cash
those checks worth nearly three million dollars total

3556
04:20:30.280 --> 04:20:33.079
as advanced payments for pay per view
appearances he never made. He cashed him

3557
04:20:33.120 --> 04:20:37.239
and he never made the appearances.
It's one thing to write that big letter

3558
04:20:37.280 --> 04:20:41.239
and say like you have some nerve
inviting me to the pay per view without

3559
04:20:42.399 --> 04:20:47.120
creative for it. But it's another
thing to say that after you've already cashed

3560
04:20:47.159 --> 04:20:51.639
three million dollars worth of checks,
if you're gonna you know what am I

3561
04:20:51.680 --> 04:20:56.319
supposed to do? I don't know. I mean you're telling me I got

3562
04:20:56.360 --> 04:20:59.319
these you guys give me these checks. So you're booking me, brother,

3563
04:20:59.680 --> 04:21:03.639
So I nosciles to get paid for
even though you're booking me dude, I

3564
04:21:03.639 --> 04:21:07.239
don't have to show up, but
you booked me. I get paid something

3565
04:21:07.319 --> 04:21:12.079
like that. Obviously, check gets
in the mailicates, a check comes to

3566
04:21:12.079 --> 04:21:15.799
the mail gates cash, dude.
It's that simple. I don't care what

3567
04:21:15.799 --> 04:21:21.399
it's for. It gets cashed.
I'm putting the bank. Brother outright refused

3568
04:21:21.399 --> 04:21:25.959
to peer agreed, at which point
Bishops attempted by w W the investment group

3569
04:21:26.000 --> 04:21:30.559
had failed, so they asked him, do you think your contract was terminated

3570
04:21:30.600 --> 04:21:36.280
at Bash to the Beach? If
so, why did you continue to cash

3571
04:21:36.319 --> 04:21:38.920
these checks that were sent to you
after that? You had no problem doing

3572
04:21:38.959 --> 04:21:44.239
that. You took W Stew's money. But you're contending the agreement was terminated.

3573
04:21:44.360 --> 04:21:49.280
Hogan just simply says in a in
a deposition filed as part of the

3574
04:21:49.639 --> 04:21:55.639
Russo lawsuit. It was my money. It was nearly three million dollars,

3575
04:21:55.680 --> 04:22:00.280
wasn't it, Yes, sir,
and it should have been more, lot

3576
04:22:00.360 --> 04:22:03.360
more, he said, right,
damn fucking right. That's greed, baby,

3577
04:22:03.920 --> 04:22:08.280
WCW style. And So before we
deep dive this historic piece of business

3578
04:22:08.280 --> 04:22:11.680
from Jacksonville, the final w W
pay per view, we do need to

3579
04:22:11.680 --> 04:22:17.680
issue a few shout outs. First, chopped teas what is our man Dicky

3580
04:22:17.719 --> 04:22:21.639
cooking up over there. Holy shit, we've turned over the non T shirt

3581
04:22:21.680 --> 04:22:25.799
side to him, and there is
a launch coming that is going to put

3582
04:22:25.840 --> 04:22:30.079
you exactly exactly where you need to
be Ica pro Style. You're damn right.

3583
04:22:30.840 --> 04:22:36.040
Seeing the videos on social seas insane, the TLF stuff, the markups

3584
04:22:36.040 --> 04:22:40.159
we've seen of some of the concepts
he's working on for one of a kind

3585
04:22:40.200 --> 04:22:42.239
TLF shwag, I mean apparel that's
on a whole other level than just a

3586
04:22:42.239 --> 04:22:45.079
T shirt. And we love our
T shirts and we pour a heart and

3587
04:22:45.120 --> 04:22:49.639
soul into the designs, but this
is like, there's now a look that's

3588
04:22:49.639 --> 04:22:57.360
coming into focus a TLFi look,
Yes, agreed, I mean there's I

3589
04:22:57.399 --> 04:23:00.120
love. I love the T shirts, don't get me wrong, and I

3590
04:23:00.159 --> 04:23:04.799
will continue to design for them.
But man, there is something SI here.

3591
04:23:04.920 --> 04:23:07.799
Yep. When it when it,
When it looks like this, there's

3592
04:23:07.799 --> 04:23:11.879
something going on. Go over to
Chopped hyphen Teas dot com, c H

3593
04:23:11.920 --> 04:23:17.760
O P P E D Slash,
Collections, slash the hyphen Lapsed hyphen Fan

3594
04:23:18.079 --> 04:23:21.159
and you can just find it at
the very top of the page as well.

3595
04:23:22.159 --> 04:23:26.319
Premium apparel jerseys, track jackets,
buttoned downs. This ship is fucking

3596
04:23:27.120 --> 04:23:30.760
I mean, we're going to get
a fully uniformed crew the next time we

3597
04:23:30.799 --> 04:23:33.239
do a live show, the likes
of which we've never seen thanks to chopped

3598
04:23:33.479 --> 04:23:37.719
Sure, seriously believable. Someone wrote
like I don't want to buy that.

3599
04:23:37.760 --> 04:23:41.399
It makes me look an asshole,
like a trucker cap, and Dicky wrote,

3600
04:23:41.479 --> 04:23:45.120
the intention of all products on my
site is to make everyone look like

3601
04:23:45.159 --> 04:23:52.040
an asshole. Of course, so
that's it. The the lapsed teacher designs

3602
04:23:52.079 --> 04:23:56.280
are basically oh yeah, asshole.
Yeah, that's you have to come to

3603
04:23:56.360 --> 04:23:57.719
terms with that if you're going to, you know, fly the flag.

3604
04:24:00.520 --> 04:24:03.920
Shout out to folks that have been
satisfied with their purchases thus far from the

3605
04:24:03.959 --> 04:24:08.600
chop Teas store, Dennis, the
first one to grab a hat, said,

3606
04:24:08.600 --> 04:24:11.959
it came out exactly as I hoped
it would be, with a great

3607
04:24:12.000 --> 04:24:18.239
yupong base, the best around,
flawless quality, shipping super fast. I

3608
04:24:18.280 --> 04:24:22.120
mean, this is serious business,
folks, and so we encourage you to

3609
04:24:22.200 --> 04:24:26.319
keep supporting this new vein of TLF
growth over at chop Teas and of course

3610
04:24:26.360 --> 04:24:30.520
Pro Wrestling Teas dot Com for the
straight T shirts that are a staple of

3611
04:24:30.520 --> 04:24:36.920
any wrestling fans of Wardrobe, we
were there outfitting you with the slogans you

3612
04:24:36.959 --> 04:24:40.479
need to represent yourself proudly. We
also need to shout at our friends a

3613
04:24:40.520 --> 04:24:45.440
tight Nutrition who continue to support the
show and offer a great range of pre

3614
04:24:45.559 --> 04:24:48.920
and post workout products to get your
shit in shape. As we head in

3615
04:24:49.719 --> 04:24:55.920
to the summer, tight Nutrition offers
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3616
04:24:55.959 --> 04:24:57.959
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3617
04:24:59.000 --> 04:25:02.079
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3618
04:25:02.120 --> 04:25:06.840
the colder months and the spring.
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3619
04:25:06.840 --> 04:25:11.360
those success calories and also give you
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04:25:11.360 --> 04:25:14.840
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04:25:14.920 --> 04:25:17.959
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get ten percent off your purchase and free

3622
04:25:17.959 --> 04:25:23.000
shipping tight nutrition dot net with the
discount code lapsed. Tell them we sent

3623
04:25:23.079 --> 04:25:27.639
you and enjoy your products. Getting
into shape this summer season with your boys.

3624
04:25:27.639 --> 04:25:30.479
You're going to look great, you're
going to feel great, and you're

3625
04:25:30.479 --> 04:25:34.680
going to have fucking orgasmic pleasure in
your ear all summer long. As your

3626
04:25:34.719 --> 04:25:38.360
coach hairs continue going hard. And
it's not just the main show. It's

3627
04:25:38.399 --> 04:25:42.239
not just traditional laps, TLFX,
pay per view deep dives. It's also

3628
04:25:42.319 --> 04:25:48.239
under the cinemat tell them about it. Oh yes, rocking and rolling with

3629
04:25:48.360 --> 04:25:55.639
our carnies are forever journey. We
just finished up Moonraker and it was quite

3630
04:25:55.680 --> 04:26:00.120
a doozy and we've got more.
All right, we're still we have we

3631
04:26:00.159 --> 04:26:03.000
have we have gone. Roger Moore, we have right, we've gone over

3632
04:26:03.040 --> 04:26:07.280
the hump with our Roger Moore.
You know we are. We are now

3633
04:26:07.319 --> 04:26:11.719
on the other side of his uh
of his tenure. But there's still plenty

3634
04:26:12.200 --> 04:26:18.159
more to come on that front.
Amazing discoveries about amazing wrestlers yep, Yeah,

3635
04:26:18.200 --> 04:26:22.079
who participated in the films just tremendous. Yeah, And there are quite

3636
04:26:22.120 --> 04:26:26.799
a few more surprises to come along
with regarding that, a lot of a

3637
04:26:26.840 --> 04:26:32.520
lot of names we've never touched upon
under the Cinema. So it's it's it's

3638
04:26:32.520 --> 04:26:36.079
it's wild. That's the time to
hop on the train, if you ask

3639
04:26:36.200 --> 04:26:38.000
me, no better time than now. We're going to a busy season of

3640
04:26:38.360 --> 04:26:44.319
live and delayed calls of the ww
Premium Live events from running the bank to

3641
04:26:44.319 --> 04:26:47.399
Bash of Berlin to Summer Slam,
You're going to want to be part of

3642
04:26:47.399 --> 04:26:52.000
the coach. Here's offering a lapsed, jaundiced perspective indeed on all of that

3643
04:26:52.079 --> 04:26:56.920
contemporary stuff. And we just reached
a great milestone for MOTE tier members only.

3644
04:26:57.479 --> 04:27:03.959
Wressel Mamia Episode one one hundred,
Episode one hundred. I don't mind

3645
04:27:03.200 --> 04:27:08.760
telling you now it's Joe versus Kobashi. I mean, fuck it. And

3646
04:27:10.280 --> 04:27:12.040
you were there, and I was
there, and I was privileged to be

3647
04:27:12.079 --> 04:27:15.879
there. It's the first one I
ever sat in on. I think,

3648
04:27:15.399 --> 04:27:21.680
yes, it was. It was
just to to talk to her about how

3649
04:27:21.760 --> 04:27:26.600
Kobashi actually chopped you in the chest
like he's doing to Joe. I have

3650
04:27:26.719 --> 04:27:30.000
to hear her reaction as I kind
of troll you with the idea that like

3651
04:27:30.319 --> 04:27:36.520
you had health problems because of that. Yeah, right, fucking totally gaslighting

3652
04:27:36.639 --> 04:27:37.879
my mom, Oh my god,
you gotta listen. It was such a

3653
04:27:37.920 --> 04:27:42.079
blast. It was tremendous. I
mean, I love the concept, everyone

3654
04:27:42.120 --> 04:27:45.520
loves the concept, the motors love
the concept. But one hundred episodes,

3655
04:27:45.559 --> 04:27:49.159
I mean I didn't see that.
Who would have thought? And they're more

3656
04:27:49.399 --> 04:27:52.520
I mean, look, at there. There are a lot more already in

3657
04:27:52.559 --> 04:27:56.239
the can, just like we like
it. It turns out there's so much

3658
04:27:56.280 --> 04:28:02.639
wrestling to watch with your mom.
She loves it, You love it.

3659
04:28:02.760 --> 04:28:06.399
Solar System loves it. I love
participating in it, and long may it

3660
04:28:06.719 --> 04:28:08.520
continue. That, of course,
is at our tip top tier at patreon

3661
04:28:08.520 --> 04:28:11.959
dot com slash lapsed fan, which
I know is rich for a lot of

3662
04:28:11.959 --> 04:28:15.120
folks blood, but for the folks
for whom it isn't rich or too rich,

3663
04:28:15.600 --> 04:28:18.879
we're going yep, we go.
Yes. We don't hold back because

3664
04:28:18.920 --> 04:28:26.000
it might disenfranchise some. We deliver
when we enter the bell when it rings,

3665
04:28:26.719 --> 04:28:30.360
and the bell rang for wrestling Mammia. This is organic, folks.

3666
04:28:30.399 --> 04:28:33.120
We didn't push this on people to
make a buck. We created this because

3667
04:28:33.159 --> 04:28:37.719
people screamed at us to do it
after we experimented with some Mama Sorrow input

3668
04:28:37.799 --> 04:28:42.159
during the main show, exactly just
kind of throwing her in there. You

3669
04:28:42.200 --> 04:28:48.360
know, no real intention to spin
off into this, but it just caught

3670
04:28:48.399 --> 04:28:51.680
on and people needed it. We
love remote tier members, We love everybody

3671
04:28:51.840 --> 04:28:55.600
that contributes to the show. It's
part of why we can be so thorough

3672
04:28:56.520 --> 04:28:59.520
again delivering documents like the ones we
just read. No one knew that about

3673
04:28:59.520 --> 04:29:03.799
greed until your co chairman dug deep
into a court dive, and many many

3674
04:29:03.799 --> 04:29:07.600
more. We could do, many
many more we will do. But for

3675
04:29:07.680 --> 04:29:11.280
now, it's time to put a
bow on World Championship Wrestling visa via it's

3676
04:29:11.280 --> 04:29:15.879
final pay per view WCW Greed at
a time when the fate of WCW,

3677
04:29:15.879 --> 04:29:18.920
in the story of the end of
WCW, is very much in the air.

3678
04:29:18.959 --> 04:29:25.120
It's all beautiful serendipity, and we
have to I suppose thread in that

3679
04:29:25.200 --> 04:29:27.680
serendipity a bit of somberness. Boss. It's time for the w W Greed

3680
04:29:29.040 --> 04:29:37.639
death toll. Yes we have.
I'll tell you what the uh death was

3681
04:29:37.799 --> 04:29:41.520
the Grim Reaper rather was not so
greedy, Okay, I will say there

3682
04:29:41.559 --> 04:29:48.159
were eight There are eight dead on
this show. Referee Mickey J. Yeah,

3683
04:29:48.639 --> 04:29:56.639
Spanish language commentator Pedro Morales, Road
Warrior Animal Bam Bam Bigelow, Mike

3684
04:29:56.760 --> 04:30:03.079
Awesome, Sean O'Hare, the March
Dream, Dusty Rhodes, and I ask

3685
04:30:03.200 --> 04:30:10.760
you who deader than Canyon Rest in
peace to all all way too young.

3686
04:30:11.399 --> 04:30:14.360
When you watch w c W in
two thousand and one, it just it

3687
04:30:14.360 --> 04:30:18.520
should not be populated with wrestlers who
are already dead in those numbers. Honestly,

3688
04:30:18.200 --> 04:30:22.559
those are not very old guys.
You talked about. Shan O'Hare was

3689
04:30:22.639 --> 04:30:26.680
mister next generation. You know,
he's presented as this next generation guy and

3690
04:30:26.920 --> 04:30:33.239
he's gone already. Yep, Luler
Buff's all alive. It's it's that's the

3691
04:30:33.239 --> 04:30:37.399
weird thing. It's fucked up.
But let us let us determine how fucked

3692
04:30:37.440 --> 04:30:41.479
up it really is. Let's let's
even engage with with Dusty's tray full of

3693
04:30:41.479 --> 04:30:45.879
burritos. What do you say,
can't fucking handle that whole thing? The

3694
04:30:45.920 --> 04:30:48.399
other side of this break, it's
that fucking deep dive of w c W

3695
04:30:48.520 --> 04:30:55.600
greed. We'll see you there.
He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack

3696
04:30:56.159 --> 04:30:56.840
Seo and JP Sorro