WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.360 This is a commercial, free archive edition of our live radio show that airs 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:13.080 every Friday at noon, Arizona time on openminds dot TV. Welcome to open 3 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:18.960 Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO 4 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:24.199 Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade 5 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.839 and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, 6 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:34.479 and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. 7 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:43.119 Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome. This is Alejandro 8 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:48.039 Rojas and you are listening to Open Minds Radio, where we're bringing the UFO 9 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:53.119 subject into the light of day. We've got a great guest today in studio, 10 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.719 doctor Ruth McKinley hover. Not the doctor Ruth you're thinking of, but 11 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.520 instead someone who has done a lot, a lot of work, decades of 12 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:07.599 work helping people with the abduction phenomena. We've had others on talking about this, 13 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:11.680 and Ruth is local here to the Phoenix metro area, so we'll be 14 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:17.159 talking to her about her experiences. So I'm really excited to talk to her. 15 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.079 I've known her for a little bit now that I've been out here, 16 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.920 been seeing her at all of the events, so it's going to be a 17 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.400 lot of fun. So we'll be talking about that in just a few short 18 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.840 minutes. But I did also want to talk about the magazine. Of course, 19 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.239 our magazine, Open Minds Magazine is out. It is at all of 20 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:38.680 the Barnes and Nobles, so you should be able to check it out. 21 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:44.079 We sent people to local Barnes and Nobles to make sure they were there, 22 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:48.560 and they are there and they're really cool, so we've got a lot of 23 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:53.760 great response on how great they look, so we're excited about that. We've 24 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:59.640 got stories in there on the White House and the current administration and their UFO 25 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:07.319 connections. We've got information about abductions. We also have information about a group 26 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:10.000 of kids, and we'll probably be bringing up doctor John Mack, who is 27 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:15.120 a Harvard professor, a psychologist who looked into abductions. But he also researched 28 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:23.199 a case in Africa where some children were at school and they saw craft land 29 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:29.000 and this entity came out of the craft and they were able to talk to 30 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:32.000 it. So those kids are older now and so in our magazine. We 31 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:36.199 have a story on what was going on with that. We've got a lot 32 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:40.360 of news because of course we cover UFOs in the news, and so you 33 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:46.400 can see a lot of those headlines. And as usual, before we talk 34 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:52.520 to our guests, let's talk about UFOs in the news. We've got our 35 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:58.719 news correspondent Jason McClellan with us in the room. Jason, give us some 36 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:02.680 updates. Good good Friday afternoon, Alejandro, Hello Phoenix, and hello world. 37 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:07.080 This is your Open Minds News brief for Friday, April second, twenty 38 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:12.080 ten. A European probe has discovered the first planet orbiting another star that resembles 39 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.039 a planet in our own Solar system. The planet known as corbut nine B, 40 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:21.840 named after the planet hunting satellite which discovered it, and it resembles Jupiter 41 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.919 in size. The planet is cool enough to contain liquid water, creating the 42 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:30.960 possibility of life, and its temperature is estimated to be between seventy three and 43 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:35.039 three hundred and fourteen degrees fahrenheit. Wow. You know, we spent a 44 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:39.840 lot of time talking about Virgin Galactic and the new space tourism that's coming very 45 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:44.719 soon, and I can just imagine people planning their trips to this planet they 46 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.680 think is going to be a comfortable seventy three degrees and they get there and 47 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:51.400 it's three hundred and fourteen degrees. You have to go in winter, that's 48 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.800 for sure. That's right. In other news, the UK's The Sun reported 49 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:59.560 this week on a video that has appeared on YouTube of a UFO captured by 50 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.439 a police helicopters infrared camera. The video was shot on Christmas Day in nineteen 51 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:08.759 ninety four and shows a spherical object racing through the skies over Long Beach, 52 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:12.919 California. Smaller objects appear to come out of the main object, and some 53 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:17.360 believe the video shows an alien spacecraft releasing probes, while skeptics say the object 54 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:21.279 in the video was simply space debris burning up in the atmosphere. There's been 55 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:26.639 no comment from Long Beach police officers regarding the strange video. It's a great 56 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.560 video from a police officer a police helicopter, so it's a few years old 57 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:35.439 and the sun is just kind of picking it up. But it'd be interesting 58 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:40.240 to see more from that one. Also in the news, the Australian Bureau 59 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:45.839 of Meteorology found a mysterious pattern on the National radar system what has been described 60 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.639 by some as resembling crop circle patterns. The Bureau describes the imagery as red 61 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:55.519 stars, rings of fire, and white donuts. The Bureau explains the strained 62 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.480 imagery as occasional interference to the radar data. When you look at the the 63 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.279 strange visuals that they're getting on this radar system, it's bizarre. It seems 64 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:10.399 strange to be just a error in the radar system, but it apparently it's 65 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:13.800 happening in quite a lot and they can't explain it. Some of it they 66 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:16.480 explained by clouds interfering with the system. But in a lot of these pictures 67 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.879 there are no clouds. Oh, that's really weird. Yeah, I haven't 68 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:25.199 looked into that one much. In other news, after being sworn to secrecy 69 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.120 for nearly five decades, former CIA contract workers from Area fifty one are free 70 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.079 to tell their stories about time spent working at the location of so many classified 71 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.279 projects. Area fifty one with the test site for many secret military aircraft, 72 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:42.920 including the A twelve and its successor of the SR seventy one Blackbird. James 73 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.639 Knows, a former CIA contractor, recalled several government black projects, but says 74 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.519 he never saw anything connected to UFOs. However, he says the government did 75 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:55.959 mind stories about aliens and UFOs because they helped cover up the secret planes they 76 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:59.240 were testing at Area fifty one. Yeah, it's still you know, I 77 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.199 don't think this. I only worked there for three years. He worked a 78 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.959 shift, and usually they don't let everybody see everything going on exactly, So 79 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:11.560 I'm sure there's a lot more going on that these guys weren't able to see. 80 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.639 And those, Yeah, those who were involved, You're right, would 81 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:18.279 have been few people, not everybody at Area fifty one would have known everything 82 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:21.879 going on. Yeah. Usually you only know about your one project and that's 83 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.720 it, right, And it sounds like these guys only knew about the A 84 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:30.480 twelve precursor to the s R seventy one, and that's it. That's the 85 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.160 only thing that they talk about. Yeah. And In entertainment news, the 86 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:39.160 nineteen eighty two classic Ech was recently named the greatest children's movie ever, beating 87 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.639 out modern blockbuster hits like Shrek and Finding Nemo. The poll was conducted by 88 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.279 marketing research company One Pole, with e t in the number one spot. 89 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.920 Toy story Mary Poppins, The Lion King and the Wizard of Oz made up 90 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:55.519 the top five children films of all time. But with ET, it's interesting 91 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:59.519 thinking back on ET and then thinking about all of the children movies that have 92 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.360 come out in the last two years and how many of them are alien related. 93 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:06.399 Yeah, a lot of them. And you know, when we get 94 00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:11.000 doctor russin here in the next sament, we'll talk to her about that. 95 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.680 Being a psychologist, I know she's worked with children, so we'll talk more 96 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:17.240 about that. Because they thought this thing was going to be too ugly for 97 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:19.839 kids. Kids were going to freak out because it's this ugly creature. But 98 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.199 no, you know, everybody loved it. I loved it, and I 99 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:27.560 know watching it when I was growing up, it certainly was a movie that 100 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:30.600 made me start watching the skies. Oh really, I remember that, you 101 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.519 know, starting to look in the sky and wondering what was out there, 102 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:38.839 what other things were out there, and when was I going to see something 103 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.360 else? Yeah, it also started my love affair with Reese's pieces. But 104 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.759 I think that's true for a lot of people. But I mean that's how 105 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:48.240 I felt, you know, as a little kid, I already had seen 106 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:53.600 Close Encounters convinced me so right. I was already watching the skies and then 107 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.759 to see this, it's like, wow, you know what's out there? 108 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.839 Absolutely well, that's it from the news. I'm your Open Mind News correspondent, 109 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.800 Jason McLellan. Back to you, Alejandro. All right, great, 110 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:07.600 thanks Jason. So we still have a lot coming up. We've got doctor 111 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:11.920 Ruth McKinley coming up. And I also wanted to mention the Vision Quest Metaphysical 112 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:18.800 Bookstore. We are going to be there Friday evening at about seven pm. 113 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:24.040 We meaning all of Open Minds and our editors to be there to answer questions 114 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:28.480 about UFOs, to talk about UFOs, to meet the public. So I'm 115 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.959 really looking forward to that. That's going to be a lot of fun. 116 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.159 That's going to be on April thirtieth, which is a Friday evening at Vision 117 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:41.399 Quest Metaphysical Bookstore. And that's at two two two five North Scottsdale Road in 118 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.399 Scottsdale, Arizona, So two to twenty five North Scottsdale Road. They have 119 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.320 a lot of really cool books there. They always have some psychics there. 120 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:56.159 They have some beautiful clothes and jewelry, so it's definitely a place to check 121 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.200 out. And I believe this weekend they've got their Metaphysical Fair going on, 122 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:05.600 so you can go there and meet with writers, meet with psychics, things 123 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:11.240 like that. So that's two two two five North Scottsdale road Visionquestbooks dot Com. 124 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:16.679 So that's an event that'll be fun coming up here because I know some 125 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.120 people have been wanting to meet who are the people behind the magazine and our 126 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:28.240 radio show that makes up Open Minds. They're also carrying our magazine, so 127 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:33.159 I've already talked about that, And also I want to remind people that you 128 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.120 can go to our website to see all of those news stories that Jason had 129 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.440 mentioned, and more so, we update that on pretty much nearly a daily 130 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.759 basis. If I'm not sick or in Mexico or something, we update that 131 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.720 on a nearly daily basis, so you can see the latest and the greatest 132 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:56.799 going on there. And also you'll be able to see stories on UFOs and 133 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:00.840 the like, such as one of our feature stories that we have up here 134 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:09.399 is a UFO wine that was inspired by a flap in Chateau de Paupas if 135 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:15.039 I'm saying it correct, but essentially it's pretty cool what had happened was there 136 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:18.399 were a bunch of sightings in this area in France and all over France in 137 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:24.039 nineteen fifty four, big ufo wave and this vineyard decided that they were going 138 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:30.799 to make it illegal for the UFOs to land in their vineyard and to affect 139 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.639 their grapes at all, so they wouldn't have their wine affected at all. 140 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:37.559 So they made a decree. The mayor said it's illegal for them to land 141 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:43.559 here, and it worked because they didn't have any UFOs landing there. But 142 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.960 there's also a wine by Bonnie Dune may that is in recognition of this event, 143 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:52.679 so pretty cool. Check out our website open mindsat TV to see more 144 00:10:52.679 --> 00:11:03.360 about that. We'll be back in a few seconds with doctor Ruth. You're 145 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:09.559 listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandra Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. 146 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:18.159 We are back and we are going to be talking alien abduction with our 147 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.960 guest doctor Ruth. Hello there, Hi, nice to be here. Thank 148 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.120 you, thanks for coming in. And to start off, you are a 149 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:31.320 doctor. Is your doctorate in social work or psychology? Psychology? Clinical psychology? 150 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.039 Okay, so you're a clinical psychologists as well, right, which is 151 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.720 helpful of background to have, especially in this piece, even if you're only 152 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.480 your own sake. Yeah, So in your history, how did you first 153 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:48.679 come across the abduction phenomena and what did you think of it? Back then? 154 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:56.879 Background is always overdetermined where you end up. It was a surprise to 155 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:03.000 me when John Mack called me from Harvard and said, how would you like 156 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:09.559 to join the program for Extraordinary Experience Research. And at the time, we'd 157 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.799 been traveling a lot. We worked for a travel company, so we'd been 158 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:18.480 to like Egypt many times, Peru many times, and all the questions that 159 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:22.559 you stack up in the back of your head. Here was somebody calling up 160 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.480 and saying, hey, join the club and we'll tell you more about this 161 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:31.559 and you can learn more about it. So it was a slam dunk. 162 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.399 I was part of the research community from then on. What did you think 163 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:41.799 of the whole idea of people being abducted by extraterrestrials At the time, actually, 164 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:48.360 it wasn't too quote alien to me because I read copiously. I have 165 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:54.720 a giant library, and I was just thinking how overdetermined our adult lives are. 166 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:01.639 Because growing up I had an obsession with finding out all the secrets, 167 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:07.080 and I end up a researcher that's researching the secrets. There are no accidents, 168 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:13.200 and our travel when we went to Peru, specifically Peru in Egypt, 169 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:20.159 gave me the most insight into that what we learned in the history books isn't 170 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.440 real history. Crop circles too, and in England, because I believe that 171 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:31.320 the crop circles are the communications we are getting and we are only now beginning 172 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.360 to determine what the crop circles are saying to us. So when had you 173 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.879 heard of when doctor Matt called you, had you heard of the idea of 174 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.840 alien abduction? Yes, and I'd read a few things along with, you 175 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:54.360 know, reading everything as it comes into print. And I knew of him, 176 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.519 but I was not part of his peer program, which when he invited 177 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:05.279 me to obviously I joined immediately. And we're really going to miss him. 178 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.240 He was an advanced mind on the planet. Yeah. Unfortunately, doctor Macis 179 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:15.440 passed away just a few years ago, hit by a junk driver, So 180 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:20.879 very unfortunate. And I loved his books. I definitely recommend people to go 181 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.960 read what he'd written on this field because he was a very advanced thinker. 182 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.240 The name of his book, Abduction everybody should have that, yeah, for 183 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:37.080 sure, And he was looking for answers and beyond kind of just a black 184 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.600 and white, whether it's a physical thing, whether it's a just purely mental 185 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.120 thing. He is very advanced in looking into what might be going on and 186 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:52.320 drawing parallels with shamanism, and he looked at in all areas nothing. He 187 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:58.200 didn't close his mind down to anything. And in going to the crop circles, 188 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.759 he had the same experience that I had, which is these are so 189 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:07.080 deliberate, there's a message here, and only in a very few of them 190 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:13.639 have we literally decoded the message. For example, there's one that is obviously 191 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:20.200 the Solar system, and the first time that that crop circle appeared, you 192 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:26.360 saw all the planets in their orbital patterns, but Earth was missing. And 193 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:31.240 if that's not a strong hint to listen up, I don't know what is. 194 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:39.080 Five six years later, the exact same crop circle appeared in the exact 195 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:45.519 same field, except this time Earth was in its own orbital pattern. So 196 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.879 that's probably a good sign. That's a good sign for me as far as 197 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:54.679 I'm concerned. So when you started working with people, did you feel or 198 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:58.879 do you feel that this is definitely a phenomenon. When it comes to subductions, 199 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:06.080 that's a physical there's a physical component, absolutely reality based, and when 200 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.840 it's in your bedroom in the middle of the night and you're by yourself, 201 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.080 you know it's real and you're scared to death. No matter who you are, 202 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.799 you're scared to death. And John Mack was willing to look at that 203 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:25.039 and to listen to people. And I think he did more to get people 204 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:30.759 to work through their fear and listen up because we have a whole different body 205 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.000 of knowledge now about what they're telling us and how they're telling it to us 206 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:41.799 than before. He started looking at the abduction phenomena and the abduction group I 207 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:48.159 ran for the larger Phoenix area, it ran for eleven years. Wow. 208 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.039 And these are people, every single one of them have had some kind of 209 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.159 an abduction experience. And that's not small potatoes, you know. Yeah. 210 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.080 So, if there is a typical scenario, what would that be? What 211 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:07.480 have people described you happening to them? Usually it's waking up at night and 212 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:14.960 feeling sleep paralysis. That's like a loud bell that says, Oh, I'm 213 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.440 lying here, am I asleep? I can't move? And then they become 214 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:25.000 aware of something else or someone else in the room, and from then on 215 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:32.480 it's not confabulation from a psychological point of view. They are not making this 216 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:37.160 up. They are describing something that is so overwhelming to them they can't make 217 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.720 sense of it. And when they get around other people who've had the same 218 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:47.119 experience, you can see their anxiety level drop, and then they begin to 219 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:52.480 talk about it. So I think the event happens. People are scared, 220 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:59.200 and as they talk to other people with similar experiences, the fear level drops 221 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.440 and curiosity that he sets in. And we have a lot of really good 222 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:11.200 data from people who have been visited or traveled. Now the visitors are they 223 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:18.279 typically the same type of being or they're often different types. They're generally the 224 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.240 same type in your bedroom, and I call them the escort committee. They're 225 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:30.039 the popular little grays. But there is a lot of education that takes place, 226 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:34.559 and that is of all different kinds. Tall, skinny ones. The 227 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:41.119 best visual the general public has. Bob Dean and Whitley Strieber got inside Area 228 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:47.519 fifty one and they snapped a picture of an alien there. It's on the 229 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:53.680 cover of Robert Collins's book Exempt from Disclosure and the picture's crops, so all 230 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:59.960 you can see are the big eyes and the head, and if you look 231 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.440 at the original photo, it goes down to right below the neck. And 232 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:11.599 it's a very disturbing picture because quite obviously on this little tiny spinly being with 233 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:17.440 a big head, its neck has been wrung. I mean, it's twisted 234 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:25.200 like a rope. And sources tell you, oh, we found it in 235 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:30.599 a crashed saucer, but I kind of wonder. And at Area fifty one 236 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:36.640 they had it inside in the lab for study and it expired during that period. 237 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.680 So that's the most common type escort committee that right, see. And 238 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.839 then they begin an educational process with a lot of different types of the tall, 239 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:52.599 thin ones, and information drops into your hands, you know, you 240 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.200 go to the bookstore and the book falls on your foot, and more and 241 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:03.599 more people are describing their experience, and less and less often you find their 242 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:08.400 books not in the occult department, but in ancient history, which is kind 243 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:14.279 of fascinating to me. Yeah, Now, what sort of information are they 244 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.440 as being portrayed to these people in the educational process. A lot of it 245 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:25.559 is we're here, we exist, get used to it or get over it. 246 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:32.319 The other one is almost like a missionary zeal that you guys are trashing 247 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:40.119 your planet, stop it and stop it. Now you think very differently about 248 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:47.400 the tree huggers and the programs that are going on, because that is basically 249 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.759 what they're telling us. We share this universe. What happens here is going 250 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:56.480 to be important to us. It should be even more important to you earthlings. 251 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.240 Which is interesting because in that South Africa store that I had talked about 252 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:04.839 earlier with the little kids, even the little kids, they didn't receive any 253 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:10.200 sort of communication, but just from looking at these beings, they got those 254 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:14.240 same messages that were destroying our planet, and we need to take care of 255 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.319 our planet better. And it's interesting to see these little kids talking about Well, 256 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:25.599 it looks like we have developed the ability to hear telepathically. And I 257 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:30.400 don't think there are a lot of people who can communicate telepathically, but there 258 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:34.000 are a few, so I think that's their method of communication. Well, 259 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.559 we've got to take a break. We'll be right back. We're talking with 260 00:21:40.119 --> 00:22:02.440 doctor Ruth about abduction. So stay tuned. This is Open Minds Radio here 261 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:08.279 again, your host, UFO, paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Welcome 262 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.960 back. This is Alejandro and you're listening to Open Minds Radio. I want 263 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:17.880 to remind people you can call in during our next segment here, and that's 264 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.279 going to be at six h two two seven, seven, five three, 265 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.960 six' nine or TOLVE three if you're not in the Phoenix metro areas twenty 266 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:32.039 sixty six five three, six eleven hundred, So give us a call in 267 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.480 a minute if you want to ask a question. I have a lot more 268 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.920 questions for our wonderful guest today, doctor Ruth McKinley Hover, who is a 269 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:45.640 clinical psychologist and working with abductees, and I wanted to ask about the procedures, 270 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:53.599 the medical procedures that often people describe during these experiences. The medical procedures 271 00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:00.640 would appear from all the reports and all the writings would appear to be geared 272 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:10.359 towards reproductive issues. And obviously that's really scary if you're an abductee who gets 273 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:15.839 carted off and laid on a table and procedures performed on you. But it 274 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.640 makes sense in an intellectual way when you realize that what the Grays have told 275 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:29.799 us is that their race is weakening and may becoming extinct, And I think 276 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:37.160 from working with doctor Mac and reading copiously, that most of their visitations have 277 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.440 to do with reproduction. I mean, I think they're desperately trying to save 278 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.960 their race. I think, yes, they take sperm and eggs. Yes, 279 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:52.559 we see that as in dignities. Nobody asked us, and yet it 280 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:57.000 strikes me that if we knew what they knew, and information were openly shared, 281 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:02.920 we might be thronging to clinics to donate stuff to them. If they 282 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:07.799 really think their race is about to become extinct. Yeah, well why don't 283 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:12.359 you think? They just don't ask, mainly because they don't talk like we 284 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:19.359 do. It's telepathic communication, which hits you like a ton of bricks when 285 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:26.880 somebody looks at you and you can't tear your gaze away those big eyes. 286 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:36.839 Early research I did was about camtrails and crop circles, and the minute I 287 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.319 got into this field, it grabbed me in a different place. It wasn't 288 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:48.359 intellectual, it was emotional, gut level, and you end up knowing what's 289 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.640 going on with yourself and a better understanding of what's going on with others. 290 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:59.640 But much of the writing comes from fear, and it seems to me. 291 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:07.119 The deeper you get, the more compassion you feel, the deeper you investigate, 292 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:12.079 yes, yes, the more you find out about they or them, 293 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:18.799 or where they're from and what they're looking for. We are so independent in 294 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:25.480 this country that if somebody takes a sperm or ova sample from you and they 295 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:29.759 didn't ask, we are just highly indignant. And a lot of the fear 296 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:34.720 is centered around how dare they? And that's our kind of And when you 297 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:40.240 say you have no right, one of our abductees raised up on the table 298 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.839 and found his voice and yelled, you have no right. And this little, 299 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.839 tiny gray doctor looks at him and he says, of course we do, 300 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.640 Yes, we do, and the guy just shut up. Well, 301 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:59.599 they when you talk about reproduction being involved, also, this idea of hybridization, 302 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:03.559 these people seeing these hybrids, is that sort of the method you think 303 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:07.799 they're using. I think it's one of the methods, But I think they're 304 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:15.279 desperately searching for a way to extend the lifetime of their race. And when 305 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.599 you meet a desperate person, you're usually a little afraid of them because you 306 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.559 don't know what they're going to do next. And there's this air of desperation 307 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:29.440 and an air of entitlement. The thing that most abductees are the most afraid 308 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:33.839 of is I have no control over what they do or don't do, and 309 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:40.359 they feel entitled, right who are they? You know, we Americans have 310 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:48.119 a great sense of entitlement. We think we're the it. And it's a 311 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:55.799 real learning experience to be confronted with beings who you know. It's like, 312 00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:57.799 I'm your doctor, shut up, lay back, and you know, we're 313 00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:03.039 doing what we need to do. So these people who go through these experiences 314 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.640 are traumatized, obviously, how do you help these people cope with what's happening? 315 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:12.799 And then where do they get to Did they get to a place where 316 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:19.839 they're okay with what's going on? They do where you work with them? 317 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.319 Is they have such a block talking about it because it is such a scary 318 00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:29.839 experience for them. It's like the world's worst nightmare. And you wake up 319 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:32.960 in the morning and you think, God, that was a terrible dream. 320 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.200 And then you look down and your night clothes are on backwards and inside out, 321 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.240 and there are funny marks on your arms and scoop marks out of your 322 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:47.319 shin bone. That's pretty appalling. From our point of view. And when 323 00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:49.720 they can talk that out, and you can put them in touch with other 324 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:56.000 people who've had the same experiences and they talk to each other, they start 325 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.519 reminding of each other of well, did this happen to you? Yeah, 326 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.440 and back there I saw such and such, And as they talk to one 327 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.160 another, they begin to feel sane again, and then they begin to be 328 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.759 able to manage it. And once they can manage it and just live with 329 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:17.279 it, then they start looking for the meaning in it. Do they find 330 00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:19.960 that their experiences once they talk to each other, are very similar, very 331 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:29.480 very similar some and this is interesting. More females than males have the experience 332 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:37.720 of being abused or raped or violated. Males quite frequently get an educational boost. 333 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.119 They get taken and shown things, and they can't figure out what they're 334 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:47.039 seeing, but over time it makes sense to them. And I think your 335 00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:51.599 dreams are polluted a lot for a while, But as you let go of 336 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:56.079 the fear and talk to other experiencers, which is what happened in the experiencer 337 00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:00.160 group, they started to realize that some of the six experience makes sense. 338 00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:06.200 And I have one lady in the group who wakes up and she goes, 339 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:10.440 oh, no, I'm so tired, not tonight, and she sees the 340 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.200 little figure run over to her dresser drawer, pull out the bottom drawer, 341 00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:18.200 rummage around in it, take out some of her lingerie, throw it back 342 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.880 in, and then exit. It's like a response to her, don't take 343 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.240 me this time, you know, just take what you need and they're just 344 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.319 looking around. Are there times like that? I mean, are people able 345 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:41.039 to sort of overtime communicate? And like this situation here, the communication is 346 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:45.759 a toughie because obviously we run off at the mouth and they have no idea 347 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.000 what we're saying anymore than we have an idea what they're saying. But if 348 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:56.160 you can quiet your fear and look directly at them and they look at you, 349 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.720 there's something about those big eyes that when they look at you, it's 350 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:06.480 in your head. It's telepathy and the only way I know how to and 351 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:11.359 it probably it's a very green experience for most of us who are not naturally 352 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.119 telepathic, but they can put thoughts in your head. Interesting. So, 353 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:22.680 when it comes down to the hybridization and then the experimentation along with these educational 354 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.839 messages, what do you think is their primary motive? Is it to share 355 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:33.720 information or or is it the experimentation. I thought about that a whole lot, 356 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.839 and I was talking to one of my experiencers, and she said, 357 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:45.519 what's our motive and putting a man on the moon, And I realize that 358 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:51.519 who's visiting us are the scientific types for the same reason we go to the 359 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:56.200 moon and get out and walk on the surface and take pictures of Mars. 360 00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.640 They're no different to go see what's there. They just have better ability to 361 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:06.440 get around the universe. Right, They've got some pretty cool crafts, Yes, 362 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.240 they do. So with the physical marks you talked about, like scoop 363 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:14.599 marks, which are could you explain what scoop marks are? Scoop marks When 364 00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:17.519 you wake up with one, you think you've been kicked in the shins. 365 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:23.079 They're very sore and they have scooped out. It's like taking a melon baller 366 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:30.599 and scooping out some flesh and tissue. And the common one in one of 367 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:37.079 the ways that I use diagnostically is a series of red dots up and down 368 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.519 your arm and legs. And I figured out that those must be restraint marks 369 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.759 because when I did gang work and we had some kids in psychiatric hospitals with 370 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.440 the restraints. Those restraints left the same marks on the body as some of 371 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.839 the body marks I see on abductee. Wow. Well, we'll talk more 372 00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:56.839 about that when we come back from our break, but right now we have 373 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.640 to take a short bait. We'll be right back back with doctor Ruth McKinley 374 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:06.720 hover and we're talking about alien abductions. You're listening to Open Minds Radio on 375 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:21.240 camp and X. Welcome back to open Mindes Radio. Here now former official 376 00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.519 spokesperson for the Mutual UFI Network, your host of Open Mindes Radio, Alejandro 377 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:31.440 Rojas, Welcome back. This is Alejandro and the phone lines are open. 378 00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:36.279 So if you would like to ask doctor Ruth your own question, give us 379 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:40.039 a call at six oh two two seven seven five three six nine. That's 380 00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:45.119 six oh two two seven seven five three six nine. If you're not in 381 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:49.960 the Phoenix meter, ariea call us at one eight sixty six five three six 382 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:53.559 eleven hundred. But before you were cut off, we were talking about scoop 383 00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:59.480 marks and you were talking about some of them are similar to restraints. Yes, 384 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:06.279 yes, well, and what we're told by abductees who remember as a 385 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:12.079 horrific experience if you're taking it in and laid on a surgical table and restrained, 386 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.400 and then they come and do medical procedures on you. That no wonder, 387 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.279 we're scared to death. I mean, really, yeah, that's kind 388 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:22.680 of a freaky prospect, it is. And you know, I used to 389 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.559 think of myself as just a little old lady social worker. But once you 390 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:32.039 get into this business of educating yourself about it, more and more you go 391 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:36.319 back and forth. First you think they're the bad guys, how dare they? 392 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.839 Then you think they're the good gay guys? How dare we? And 393 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.240 then you think what does the government know? And then you get all caught 394 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:47.880 up in that, and that's scary. I am more afraid. I get 395 00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:54.079 good data from the government, and I'm very appreciative of unusual contacts I've had 396 00:33:54.119 --> 00:34:00.319 with the government. But I'm less afraid of the aliens than i am our 397 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:05.119 government. You know, it's interesting that I've heard from a lot of abductee's 398 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:10.360 the same thing, because unfortunately, sometimes they claim they have had some problems 399 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:15.159 with the government. Have you had the government harass you for the work that 400 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:24.480 you've done. I won't say it's harassment, but I have been visited and 401 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:31.400 I have also had to sign some security clearances in exchange for you know, 402 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.239 you have all this goal in the world picking me up and taking me here. 403 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:42.360 Now, let's do a trade. And so I think they're working very 404 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.400 hard to keep it secret because they've kept it secret for so long. There's 405 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:54.400 a lot of dirty junk going on trying to keep the public innocent to what 406 00:34:54.559 --> 00:35:00.559 is actually happening. And we are not always the good guys. Humans, 407 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:06.880 Yeah, humans are not always the good guys. To me, it's it's 408 00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:15.280 fifty to fifty because some abduct tease describe usually the more frightening experiences with the 409 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:22.320 very tall reptilian ones, and that is usually very scary because there's very little 410 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:27.920 education. The movies are the cute little gray guys, the flying saucers, 411 00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.239 cartoons, books are always the little gray guys, but they seem to be 412 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:43.400 the doctors. And there's a whole militaristic crowd that are like seven feet tall. 413 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:45.159 And I don't care who you are. If you're looking up at somebody 414 00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:49.400 seven feet tall and it's the middle of the night and you're in your jammis 415 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.719 there is no equality there. Yeah, that would be a little scary. 416 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:57.760 Yeah, and so this is a reptilian type that is more military and right, 417 00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:00.719 not as nice as even the gray guys. Well, and they function 418 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:07.519 apparently like our military does. Our military has to go in in power, 419 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:14.280 secure a location, do what they're sent to do, and then out. 420 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:20.360 And in some parts of the world our military is not even looked upon unless 421 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.599 they can go in and stay there long enough that you make friends with them, 422 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:29.159 and then they're very highly thought of as people. But generally speaking, 423 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:36.000 people aren't relating to the aliens as people. They're relating them to a nightmare 424 00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.000 because it's at night, you're not fully dressed, which makes you one down 425 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.599 anyway, and they have skills and telepathy and all these things that are utterly 426 00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.719 beyond you. Of course they're afraid. Yeah, now with that on the 427 00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:54.360 flip side, some of the educator, some of the more kindler, gentler 428 00:36:54.440 --> 00:37:02.920 aliens, what are they typically described as pearents, the Tall Whites. Charlie 429 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:08.079 Hall has written books about the Tall Whites and the Tall Whites. We have 430 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:15.239 whole families in Area fifty one has to keep secrets because that's its job. 431 00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:20.360 But if you are on we used to have a conference once a year on 432 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.320 the outskirts of Area fifty one, and of course we all took our best 433 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:29.519 binoculars and everything when we did this. And you can see the tall Whites 434 00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:36.039 walking up and down the far away hills, and they appear to float, 435 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.000 and there's children, and you were able to see these as well. Oh 436 00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:44.199 yeah, oh wow. But from so far off, it'd be like if 437 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:49.360 you're down the block and walking and I could see that you're not jerky, 438 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:53.119 you're kind of floating, and there'd be parents, small ones, children, 439 00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:59.320 whole families. Those are the tall whites. And my husband is fond to 440 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.639 say, yeah, Ruth knows all about the tall whites, but she never 441 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:07.679 deals with the tall blacks because they're all in the NBA. Oh she's tall 442 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:13.199 Whites close encounters that movie. I often wonder at the very end, you 443 00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:15.079 know, they have the little guys that look more like the grays, but 444 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.400 they also have this big, tall spinley kind of person coming out. Now. 445 00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:24.880 I often wonder if they were portraying a tall white probably in that video, 446 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:31.159 probably because it was interesting that they've They had some help from their advisor, 447 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:37.079 Valan j. Heinick, Yeah, Jalen Heinich, who was an astronomer 448 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:42.639 who worked for the Air Force. So and the correlation between the type of 449 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.360 entities in that movie. We were talking about Spielberg in the movie EP. 450 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:50.039 What did he know and when did he know? What did he know and 451 00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.360 when did he know it? It would seem that, you know, they 452 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:58.480 had some insight into what people reporting as far as entities as well. Well. 453 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:04.840 And the truth is we have had other beings as guests of our government 454 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:13.519 in quotes for a long long time. The secrecy has been kept for so 455 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.920 long now I'm not sure it would serve any really good purpose to kaboom come 456 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.480 out with it. But I think if they loosen and let people have their 457 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:27.400 own observations of what's going on, they have no way of controlling. And 458 00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:32.400 masses of the population have been abducted, many more than make it into print. 459 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:42.599 There's a lady in Phoenix who's writing a color book for kids that shows 460 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:45.960 the aliens. So it could be that over a long expanse of time, 461 00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:52.599 they're slowly integrating into our culture. But the ones that the researchers are aware 462 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:59.119 of come, do their business and go and are not around. Well. 463 00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:05.159 I think that the the movie Et being the number one children's movie now that 464 00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:09.199 says a lot about integration and being accepting because they were worried. I know 465 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:13.440 a lot of people like Eminem's wasn't in the movie because they were worried that 466 00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:16.079 the alien looked so ugly that the kids were going to be afraid. So 467 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:22.159 Reese's Pieces was chosen instead of Eminem. But people, even though it was 468 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:28.079 a very strange looking guy, because of the eyes and its mannerisms, people 469 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.559 were able to start to love this little alien. Yeah. Yeah, I 470 00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:37.639 think we're much more closely affiliated with aliens than most people realize. In the 471 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:45.760 Phoenix Lights, you see this large triangular who wanted to be seen as it 472 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:50.679 went right down our main corridor of I seventeen and right back up with billions 473 00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:58.320 of people seeing it. But I think it's very difficult for you to acknowledge 474 00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:04.119 if you have a booky experience that's out of the ordinary. Our culture is 475 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.599 built around being one of the guys, you know, and not being different. 476 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:14.239 We try very hard not to be different in other cultures in England. 477 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:21.320 And then when you go to Egypt or Peru and you see things that couldn't 478 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:29.159 possibly be made by humans there is no way, and stones that are laid 479 00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:32.320 together and you can't even get a hair right. Like in Peru they have 480 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:36.800 a lot of those right. And in Egypt the Sphinx, the pyramids. 481 00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:42.000 Yeah, of course some incredible stuff. You know, looking online that brought 482 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:49.360 up something. There's a picture from Egypt where it looks like in these hieroglyphics 483 00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:52.760 that there's a helicopter. Yes, those are my pictures, exactly like You're 484 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.960 cared for that picture a lot. So were you the one to discover that. 485 00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:59.800 I was the one who took the first one, and I gave it 486 00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:02.840 out very generously to a lot of people. Neil Frere has it in his 487 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:10.639 books and his talks. It was forty feet up, so I held my 488 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:15.400 camera over my head and snapped it. And I was just really lucky that 489 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:21.519 this picture came out. And there's a submarine and a helicopter and what looks 490 00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:27.320 like a jet and another and that's been in all sorts of books. David 491 00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:31.519 Hatcher Childress we were having coffee at one of Chet Snow's conferences and I was 492 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.559 showing him my pictures and he says, oh, I want one, So 493 00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.800 I handed him one. Because it's all over it's all over the place. 494 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:43.119 If you were to google doctor Ruth McKinley, howvery most likely you'd come up 495 00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:45.599 with that picture. We're out of time. Thank you so much for being 496 00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:50.800 on the show. It's been a great show, really interesting information. Thank 497 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:52.920 you. So it's fun to have you in the studio here, and be 498 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:58.079 sure to join us next week. We're going to have Stanton Friedman, everybody's 499 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.960 favorite uthologists. He's on all of the time television shows. He is actually 500 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:06.760 a physicist and he's been researching UFOs for decades. So join us next week 501 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:10.239 on Open Minds Radio we'll have Stanton Friedman. Be sure to check out openminds 502 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.719 dot tv for news and information. This has been Open Minds Radio with Alejandro 503 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:28.199 Rojas. Thanks so much. Bleak Thing. If you watch your feet, 504 00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:49.400 cracks aliens like goes folks pot cost