And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randalchampars incident. It doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. He's so classic Ni Sorcier, really standing in the cleary. He
turned over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark
Matter Radio Network. Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past
episodes, blogs and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live
in our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active
Facebook page. Hello everyone, this is Martin willsher host. We have a
great show with our guest as the retired Captain Robert Sallas, who was there
in nineteen sixty seven during a UFO observation when several nuclear missiles shut down one
by one. These were all independently controlled and not connected together. There was
no answer that the military could come up with, and of course guess what
they tried to hide it. So we're going to be talking to him about
his testimony. Before that, we have Alejandro Rojas from Open Minds Radio and
he is going to be on talking about the latest UFO events. Well,
I'm really excited about this because we're at the year's end and we have a
great contest for you out there. Get a pen and paper or if you
forget anything, I'm saying, it'll be in our show notes. How to
enter. You can win a brand new iPad Mini and I will send that
anywhere in the entire world. If it's off planet, it's going to be
some extra postage. I'll tell you that. Well, here's what you have
to do. You go to gemmer, which is gemmer dot com gemr dot
com and by the way, gemmer is a social community for collectors to share,
trade and connect with other collectors. It's a great website and a fun
experience. The next step is you need to register, and that is very
easy. You can do it through Facebook or Google, or you just sign
up through an email address and you need to get a username. Then you
need to post something, some sort of collectible or something, and you can
post a whole bunch of things I did a bunch of art pieces really quickly,
real easy, simple and intuitive. So now your last step is and
you can't forget this or you can't win. You need to take your username
and put it in the subject line of an email and send it to contest
at gemmer dot com. And that again, it's all right on my website,
and go there if you've forgot anything. So it's only going to take
you a few minutes. And if you don't win the iPad Mini, we
are all so drawing five runner ups of swag bags with some cool stuff in
it. It's really worth you while check it out. The site is great,
you're going to really enjoy it. And just once again to win this
brand new iPad Mini or fun swag bags, go to ge m r dot
com register post as many items as you'd like, send an email to contest
at gemmer dot com with only your username in the subject line. Already then,
and if you've missed the last few shows, I have to fill you
in real quickly. The first hour of the show is free to anyone who
wants to listen still an iTunes stitcher and all that. The second part of
the show for only a dollar a month, which is about twenty three cents
a week. You can listen to the second hour of the show by going
to get Joyride dot com slash podcast UFO again, it's right on our website.
Check it out. And that is about it, and we are ready
to bring Alejandro on. How you doing, Alejandro? I am doing wonderful.
How are you, my friend? I'm good. You know what?
Next week is? Christmas? Eve As, I'm sure you're very well aware.
Next week is Christmas. It is. Oh, oh my gosh,
I better start doing some shopping. Yeah, hey, it's never too late,
I say, because yeah, I'm one of those last minute ters myself.
But you know what, I got a guest on the show. Can
you believe that? And I just pulled it on a couple of days ago.
I told him that we didn't have any openings for six months. No,
I didn't really, but anyway, he was kind enough. It's a
Frank Fshino. I think it is how you say his name. I think
it's Frank Freshino, like fresh oh fresh Fashino. I think Junior on the
Flatwood Flatwood Monster. That's always been an intriguing case to me very much.
So yeah, so he'll be on. So I was excited about that because,
yeah, that'll be cool. I was gonna be all by my lonesome
next week, and I don't I don't like that. So I've had enough
technical difficulties lately where I realized that I'm not one of these people that can
carry on like Art Bell or someone who like for four hours by myself with
no one talking talk about Christmas, and I like Sanna. I hope you
listeners like Sanna too. That was a pretty darn good invitation of how I'd
handle it. So what's a hey, I saw a thing on your Facebook
page that was pretty exciting. Do you want to talk you're talking about that?
I'm assuming the Chili thing, Yeah, I am talking about that.
Number one on my list for UFO news this week is the Chilean government sanctioned
UFO organization cepha AH who is They went to France in October and they met
with another government sanctioned UFO organization. There's not many, but France does have
one called Japon. Japon is under the cn S, which is France's version
of NASA, and Chile they work under the DGAC, which is kind of
their version of the FAA. But there's an organization called the three AF it
out there in France and they're kind of an aeronautics and astronautics association, a
society, and they aid Francis Japan in the scientific study of UFOs. So
Chile Chile CEPHA went out there to meet with them and they signed an agreement.
Well, now where three AF is now going to help Chile also with
their investigation of UFOs. So I think this is really cool and really important.
This three AF is an important organization. They would be most similar to
our American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. And this is kind of a society
that, you know, everybody in this field, especially people who want to
network and be known, you know, join the society where they talk about
all of these various things going on, sending things to space, building planes,
all of this stuff. So it's a very important organization. It's one
of the four biggest in Europe of its kind, others being in Germany and
the UK and so forth, so it's a really big deal. Now,
this three AF has a committee called the Sigma Group where they it's a commission
they call it that investigates UFOs, and they've been investigating UFOs for a long
time. In fact, we wrote a story in twenty ten about a report
that they had released where they said they agreed with some other high ranking military
officials and such that rote a report in nineteen ninety three called the famous Kameta
Report that some of you are aware of, where these officials said UFOs are
real and they're very possibly extraterrestrial in origins, and three AF said, we
agree with that. We evaluated a lot of cases and we agree that it's
a real phenomena of unknown origins and we can't roll out the extraterrestrial possibility.
So it's really cool, really interesting. These are all very important people.
We posted some pictures and everything. Leslie Kane is very close to Cepha.
She covers their stuff a lot, so we have some quotes from her that
she gave to Billy Cox of the Saratosa Herald Tribune. So really cool.
I think this is really important. I do too, And you know,
I was going to ask you about Leslie because I know she's been really a
strong advocate to make something like this happen in more than one country, and
you know, this could be the start of a domino effect of getting other
countries to take a really good look at the situation, I hope. So
there's been a sort of domino effect in South America where Uruguay created a UFO
organization, and then Chile and then Argentina and Peru. So there's several of
them down there, which is really cool. And these are government sanctioned UFO
organizations. Chile has kind of been on the forefront lately in creating these bridges
with other organizations around the world. We actually had General Bermudez, who runs
STEPHA, at the International UFO Congress a few years ago and he emphasized the
importance of reaching out to the international community and building these bonds, and they've
been doing that. You just mentioned the was it narcap with Richard Haynes am
I thinking of the right, you got it? Yeah? Who is allergic
to a word that is part of my show, which is the word UFO.
Yeah, this is a big debate. You know, I have not
heard much from people, and I know I use the word UFO constantly.
If you don't use the word UFO, who's going to know what the heck
you're talking about? Are UAP? They're gonna look at you like U have
two heads or something. Yeah, So throughout this actual story, you know,
in France they use the word PAN, which is kind of like phenomena
anomalist, non identificado or something like that. I mean, it's it's this
word PAN. There's also a AP aerial anomalist aerial phenomena. So there's a
lot of you know, terms out there that are being used U A,
P P A N AAP, but really nobody knows what that means. And
if you were to tell someone, oh, yeah, I investigate the UAP
s, they're gonna go, what's the UAP And you're gonna go a UFO.
Oh okay, now I know what you're talking about. So I know
they're trying to get around the baggage of that comes with you, But I
don't know that that's the way to do it. At least when we're trying
to do outreach to the public. They know what UFOs are. I think
we just have to demonstrate that UFOs are a credible phenomena, that there is
credible research out there, and we've got to change that kind of base idea
of UFOs. I agree, if they changed the let's just say, tomorrow
they changed the word to uap. Well, all of a sudden, there's
going to be uap hoaxes. There's exactly you know, the Little Green men
and UAPs and you know all that stuff. So I agree with you one
hundred percent there, Yeah, it's just semantics. Well, and even Leslie
Kane's book, because she struggles with this as well. She used in her
book the term UFOs and it was a national, you know, New York
Times bestseller. If she would have had UAPs, generals and officials go on
the record, nobody would have known what the book was about, and it
probably would have sold five or six copies, two copies probably, Yeah,
I would have agreed, agreed, Still set, So what else is happening?
All right, Well, I've got a Christmas story, but I'm gonna
save that towards the end. But what I want to just quickly go over
are a couple of sightings that are out there in the media. There's some
sightings in medayin Columbia that have been getting a lot of attention. However,
they're not as exciting as they seem to be. It looks like one of
them is a balloon, the other one is it looks like a star balloon,
and we posted that and explained all of this. And what's interesting about
this is just a lot of people have reposted these original videos and gotten the
facts wrong. So now in the media when they're talking about it, all
the facts are kind of mixed up and jumbled. So I wrote a story
just to kind of clear up what are the base facts so people know,
you know what is real and what is not. But that's one that's going
on. More interesting is a sighting in Leicestershire in the UK hey, where
there are these four kind of streaks going by in the air. At first,
it was kind of assumed that they were part of the Geminids meteor shower,
which was on the same day as the sighting. However, an astronomer
has said he doesn't think that's the case. Instead, he thinks they're probably
military jets in formation and you're seeing their contrails, which might be the case,
but so far they haven't found any confirmation of this. But that's kind
of an interesting picture in a sighting that's out there. But speaking of the
UK and bringing it back to the holidays, this is just kind of really
interesting. The UK has been using UFO crashes in their school teaching. So
a lot of these schools will stage UFO crash and local authorities will pretend they're
part of they're investigating this and the kids need to come out and investigate,
do some science around it, and do some writing. But the UK has
also been incorporating aliens into their Nativity plays. So it's time for you know,
the holiday school plays, and it's more likely that not that if you
are in the UK and you're going to go to a holiday play, that
there's going to be aliens incorporated in that play. And I think that's really
interesting and weird. Parents, there was a survey, are not so excited
about this, But teachers argue, well, you're not the ones we're trying
to excite. We're trying to excite the students. And they say that the
students really respond to adding some aliens to the nativity place. It's probably just
making it more interesting. And you know, it's all about things that we
really don't know about when it comes to you know, I mean, they're
just stories handed down over the years, you know, the Nativity scenes and
all that, So why not add an alien or two as long as they're
not green. Well, they're green. They're green, sorry, Betty ways
ornaments on them, like no Christmas ornaments on them. But they're green with
antennas and big eyeballs and stuff like that. They're actually coming in a variety.
Some of them look a silvery aluminum kind of type. But I've got
some pictures of the various types of aliens in the story. But sadly,
I think this story, I think it's important sociologically that you know, the
whole idea of aliens. It's almost becoming a foregone conclusion being integrated into schools
that you know, there are surveys out there that show students or children are
more likely. Younger people are more likely to believe in this sort of stuff,
which just means that the whole idea of aliens, I think, is
going to get more and more popular. Well, we're linked to it in
the show notes, so I think you when to read that story. You
can check it out there. I don't have anything just to let you know,
and don't have anything against green aliens, whatever color they are, They're
just fine with me. If they need to be green, it's okay.
So hey, speaking of things getting a little twisted, like your balloon stories.
Last week you had a story about the Italian astronaut up there on the
International Space Station, right, and sure enough there's been stories out there.
Yeah it's a UFO. She's a UFO. So just like you said that
would probably happen, it happened. That's yep. I know how these things
go, and that's why I try to clear these things up early on.
But and it's kind of cool because some people will repost, like the Phoenix
I hoaxing that went out around a couple of weeks ago. Link Attai and
others are still out there saying, no, this one's been bested, check
this story out. But what do you do? Huh? It sure is
getting around that one too. You're right. Hey, well you have yourself
a fine day, and thanks so much for the news today, you too,
We'll see you, so hang in there for the music break. We'll
be right back with Robert Sallas to Hello, Hello, Robert, how are
you? Yeah? I'm doing fun? Is this Martin? It is?
Yes, Welcome to Podcast UFO and to the Dark Matter Radio Network, and
this is your second time on. But now it's all about you, this
time all about me. Yes, so right, Robert you're you're out in
California, is that right? Yes? Yeah, OHI California, Oh yeah,
and also pretty warm these days compared to back here on the East Coast.
If you could, can you for the listener out there that is not
familiar with your case, if you could just go over that. It's one
of the most fascinating things as far as I'm concerned, how these missiles all
shut down and you are basically would you consider yourself a whistleblower? Well,
I don't know. I guess some people could call me that. I'm mist
interested in revealing the truth. I feel it's my responsibility to do so since
I was there, I was a witness, and this is something I consider
of great importance to everybody. I do too. And I'm not just to
let you know that I'm not using that term whistleblower as a bad thing.
Okay, you know, I'm glad you came forward, and I'm glad a
lot of you know that's you know, I could go into a little bit
of politics, but I'm not going to. But more whistleblowers now are since
the latest president is, and more whistleblowers they are convicted when he said,
you know, they would have protection. So it's even tougher world for people
to come forward than it was when you came forward with this. But if
you can go all the way back to nineteen sixty seven and you were right
there, can you just describe what exactly happened? Sure? I was stationed
at Malmstrom Air Force Base, which is Great Falls, Montana is where the
base is located, but we had missile sites dotted throughout the state of Montana.
On March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty seven, I was on duty along
with my commander at a place called Oscar Flight. We were about one hundred
miles east of Great Falls, near a little town called Roy, Montana.
And this evening I get I'm on alert status. My commanders taking a little
rest break a little cock we had down there because one of us had to
be awake at all times. We had about six guards upstairs. And time
in the evening hours, the main guard calls down and says they've been seeing
strange lights in the sky, flying very fast, making ninety degree turns,
that sort of thing, you know, typical, and they couldn't explain what
they were. They said they were very fast moving lights. They were under
some kind of control, and they were not aircraft that they knew of.
I wasn't really interested in the subject the UFOs at that time, even though
we'd had some reports in the local newspaper, the Great False Tribune, of
people reporting lights, but I kind of dismissed it. And then five minutes
later he calls back, and this time he's screaming into the phone. He's
obviously frightened. He's got all the guards out there with their weapons out and
he said, Sir, we're looking at the front gate area and there's this
glowing red object. It's just basically a large reddish orange light pulsating and it's
just hovering there right above the front gate. He was scared to death.
Why don't you tell him what to do next? And so, you know,
basically I told them anything inside the front gate. I was a little
shocked. I didn't know exactly what was going on, but it seemed like
we were under some sort of an attack or someone was trying to get in
our facility, which of course was highly sensitive. So I hung up the
phone, went to tell my commander about these phone calls, and all of
a sudden, the missiles started shutting down. We went from a green status
to a red no go status, meaning the missiles could not be launched,
and so we got a lot of bells and whistles going off. We also
had a couple of security lights, meaning we had possibility of incursion at the
launch facilities where the missiles were actually located. So I called back up.
My commander went called the command post. I called back up and ordered that
they send guard teams out to to the sites. And of course by then
the UFO had had left, but so they sent uh two guards out to
two of the sites and they reported back that again they saw UFOs or lights
hovering above the launch facilities where they where we had these indications. So after
that call on, my commander turns to me and says, the same thing
happened in another flight at that time. I thought he meant that night,
but later on I realized it was a week earlier. That was the Echo
Flight incident. Echo Flight was another area or facility similar to mine. Again,
ten missiles were under their control, and all ten missiles went down when
UFOs were reported by security guards and maintenance people that they had on the sites
they were actually doing maintenance at the time. All ten of theirs shutdown.
So that happened about eight days earlier. Within the span of eight days,
we lost twenty nuclear missiles to UFOs. And I've got this well documented,
you know, reading a little bit about it here and there, and you
know there was a serious investigation. We'll go into that. But when these
things are all independently controlled, there's really hard. It's really hard for someone
that's going to try to debunk the whole situation to come up with an easy
answer for that. I've heard someone tried to explain it maybe had something to
do with air conditioning or something. I can't remember exactly what it was.
What are some of the things you've heard about people trying to knock this thing
down. YEA. When I was on the Larry King Show, I think
this was well some years back, I don't even remember now. They had
Bill Nye, the science guy. Yeah, and he claimed he saw he
had a little report with him that said that the chiller unit we had,
you know, the equipment we had in the capsule there was air cool It
had to be cool because we were actually using at that time in nineteen sixty
seven, some of the equipment we had in there, we were using old
fashioned radio tubes. If you can believe that. Uh, and so we
did have it was cool down there. We had air conditioned equipment. And
he claimed that this air chiller unit had failed. But that's not correct.
We we didn't not lose power. We did not have an air chiller failure.
And as a matter of fact, the Boeing company a complete investigation.
They came back and and said that they could find no applausible reason for this
to happen. So I'll base I'll base it on on on their investigation.
This was the Boeing had the major contract for support of the man one system,
and I've been in touch with the team leader man By. They brought
Kavinski and I've got that information in my first book, Fade a Giant.
So no, it wasn't any any kind of a failure that you can even
imagine. Right we're on. If you're listening live with Robert Sallas, and
if you want to jump in our chat room and ask some questions, go
to podcastufo dot com real simple sign in and you can interact with guests and
ask our guests, I mean interact with people on the message board and ask
ask our guests some questions. So Robert, how long did this take before
it actually got out or did it get out right away like in local news
or something. No, No, this was classified incident. Okay. We
were relieved the next morning by another crew. The first thing I did is
I went upstairs and talked to the main guard up there again, see if
I can get more information on this. This was fantastic. It was highly
highly unusual. I was stationed there for three years as a crew commander deputy
crew commander, and nothing even similar to that ever happened. We were we
didn't lose one missile to you know, an unknown cause like this, much
less ten at any rate, We were helicoptered back and we were ordered to
go to our squad and commander's office, and in there was a member of
AFOs I and my squading commander. I asked, this was some kind of
Air Force exercise, you know, I didn't know if the Air Force had
somehow did something as a sort of readiness exercise. But he said absolutely not.
You know, he's as white as a sheet. He said, he
didn't know what the hell happened. And then the guy from AFOs I showed
this piece of paper in our face and said sign here, and what was
this? It was a nondisclosure statement. We were never ever to talk about
it to anyone, not even people in the Air force or spouse was nobody,
And so we signed, and we were and that was that. We
never even got debriefed on the failure mode or anything like that or the investigations
going on. I was there for another two years. Nobody ever talked to
me about it again. Wow, Now how long did it take for them
to get the missiles that were knocked out active again? About twenty four hours
more or less. They had to send maintenance crews out to each missile separately,
and realignment had a specific alignment procedure where where the missile had to be
oriented properly in order to accurately track on target. Yeah. Now, when
you were, say you were in this, I can't really understand exactly where
it is, but I'm guessing that you're below ground level somewhere. Yeah,
And so you get this call And how far away were you at that very
time from the gate, you know, approximately? Oh, well, we
were sixty feet underground. In order to get upstairs, we would have to
take an elevator and or you know, climb a steel ladder, but we
were not allowed to leave the capsule. We were locked in for twenty four
hours until we leave my crew because obviously if that had been some kind of
a terrorist attack, we would have, you know, had opened opened the
huge door we had protecting the capsule, then you know, we would have
been derelict because they could have had access to nuclear weapons. So we were
ordered, I mean that was our order standing. Orders were not to leave
the capsule unless we were lead by another crew. All right, So I
never I never saw the object. This was simply reported to me. I
beg, I wish you could have gone up just to take a look.
Yeah, well, yeah, I wish I had, but I couldn't.
And from what I understand and talking to these guys later, they were extremely
frightened by the whole affair. Like that. Now, if someone was let's
just say, on this planet, you know technology that we even have today,
and they wanted to take an aircraft, let's let's say, and go
over a nuclear missile and disarm it somehow that there's nothing that we have,
as far as you know, is there that could disarm one? No,
not again, what this object did was send a specific signal through sixty feet
of earth and concrete and then penetrate our triple shielded cables against EMI, penetrate
those and send signals to each of the missiles separately, and not only that,
but to a particular part of each missile. This was the logic coupler,
which connected the guidance system to the computers on the missile. So this
is a fantastic feat. Even the Air Force stated, and I've got this
in one of the documents that we received, that this was highly improbable,
highly improbable as the would they use. But no, there's nothing even today
that could do what that object did. I mean more or less. You
could probably say that someone like you or someone that was involved in the technical
part of these things could understand how it happens, but they couldn't understand how
it actually occurred. Right, So did they when they were doing their investigation,
did they try to come up with answers or did they just just want
to cover the whole thing up and just move on. Yeah, it's interesting.
There were two investigations actually ongoing. One was done by Boeing, which
was a little more open kind of investigation. The other one was done by
the Air Force. It was a classified investigation other and we don't have access
to that report, but we do have We did have, like I said,
access to the team leader of the Boeing team, and he wrote us
a long letter stating, you know what they had looked at and could not
find any practical or viable cause for the incident, the two incidents, And
later I heard from a friend of mine in the Air Force that the Air
Force was still investigating this in nineteen seventy two, So five years later they
were still trying to figure out what exactly had happened. So you know,
whether or not the Air Force ever concluded what exactly happened and how it happened,
I don't know. It's probably still classifying right now. What was the
connection with the event that happened a week earlier. Did they conclude exactly the
same thing or did a different thing type of situation shut those those warheads down?
Well, they had the same they had the same failure boat guidance and
control system failure, But the documentation we got back had to do with their
shutdown, the Echo flight shutdown. Let me just back up a little bit.
I remember I didn't talk about this even after I got out of the
Air Force. I resigned my commission in nineteen seventy one and I went to
work in aerospace, mostly in FAA for twenty two years. And then in
nineteen ninety four, I happened to be in a bookstore picked up Above Top
Secret by Timothy Good. Happened to page turn to page three oh one of
that book and saw a short paragraph stating that in nineteen sixty seven, nowas
from Air Force Base UFO came over and shut down some missiles. That was
about it. That's all I read. But as a result of that,
I thought, what maybe the Air Force declassify this incident, because how else
would wind up in Timothy Good's book. So I took a chance and asked
a member of UFHON, an investigator at UFON, to submit a FOIER request
Free Information Act requests to the Air Force about this flight of missiles going down
in nineteen sixty seven. I said, don't mention anything about UFOs, just
ask about let's see if we can get some documents on it. And sure
enough, the Air Force wrote back stated that this was still classified. However,
since it's been so long, they were going to go ahead and declassify
the incident and send US documents. So they started sending us what they had
on the Echo flight shutdown. Now I thought this was my incident, so
I started talking about it openly as a UFO event because I remember what happened,
basically what happened. It took time to remember some of the details,
but I thought that's where I was. It turns out I wasn't there.
I was at Oscar flight. I didn't find this out till a couple of
years later, when I finally got a hold of my commander, Fred Mywald,
and he told me that no, we were not at a echo we
were at an Oscar flight. So that's when I realized, you know,
I was open discussing this already. I'd been on a TV program. I
think I'd been on sightings by then, and so I just had to make
a decision. I just kept on talking about this. And it's been twenty
years now, over almost twenty years, and nobody has ever approached me about
not talking about this. But technically I'm in violation of that non disclosure statement.
Well, you know, a lot of people have clammed up about that,
and it's funny. I think I remember something about someone who came forward
on the Roswell case because of the same exact thing. They were at a
store and saw it in print and said, oh, well, I guess
that must mean it's declassified. Now I can talk about it, you know,
yeah, which is pretty amazing. Now, going back to when this
red glowing object, did you ever get to speak to the actual person about
that or did you have to just keep it quiet? The one who well,
briefly I spoke to him. When we got relieved that next morning by
another crew, I went upstairs. The first thing I did was talk to
this guy. You know, he appeared to me as someone who didn't want
to talk about I think his superiors had already gotten to him and told him
to clam up and not say any more about this. But I was able
to get out of him again. Basically asked him if there was a structure
in that light. He said there was a He could barely see the outline
of an oval shaped structure, but the light was very bright and it was
pulsating light about forty some forty to fifty feet. He said it was very
large, and it was kind of a rough estimate that it was about forty
or fifty feet because again there was it was a glow basically a glowing reddish
orange light. But he did say that there was something inside the light,
there was a structure there. Other than that, he said he was They
were all scared to death. Actually one of the guards did get injured,
but I think he got injured he cut his hand trying to jump the fence,
if you would, because he was so frightened, and we had barbed
wire of course at the top of the fence, and he had cut his
hand and he had to be sent back. A lot of these guys were
dispersed. I never saw them again again. This was there another two years.
I never saw these guys again right away. They were just exactly were
they were shipped out to different bases. And the reason they do that is
because they don't want them, you know, comparing notes getting together and causing
trouble. Also, if we can talk, you want to talk about this
now, the the ECON investigation was ongoing at this time, so that was
another reason for this this big secrecy that they imposed on us about that at
the same time. Now, before we move on from that, did anyone
any one of the guards out there, like consider drawing a gun on this
thing, or you know, trying to defend the Actually, I recently got
a report from an airman that was there, not at my facility exactly,
but he was there at the time and he knew the guard that had gotten
his handcut and was he thinks that he actually fired his weapon at this object.
Of course, no avail. There was no effect on him as far
as I know. Yeah. Now, there's another incident which I talked about
in my book. That's the Ellsworth nineteen seventy six incident. And in that
case, there were one hundred and eighty rounds fired at the object. Similar
to mine. It was it hovered over the facility and the guards just unloaded
their weapons on it and about one hundred and eighty rounds and again to no
effect. Didn't impact it one way or the other. I think I'd be
more scared after if I fired something it then I'd be in doing anything else.
I mean, you just automatically would think that this thing, would you
know, just like you're seeing the movies, send out a laser or something
and just buy youre right where you are, you know, I mean,
if it got here, it definitely has and it can actually disarm nuclear warheads.
That's the last thing. That's that's another point. This object could have
damaged our equipment, and it did not. There was no damage per se.
All it did was send a signal to each of the missiles, upset
the guidance system and disabled disarmed, not disarmed, but disable the missiles.
They could not be launched. You know, in a way, I think
it also sent a signal to us. You know. That's I had Robert
Hastings on before and we basically talked about this. I asked him what he
thought this was and you know, do you feel the same way that this
is a message? Oh yeah? That was my my conclusion that this was
simply a message, and the messages get rid of your nuclear weapons. Because
this has not happened, not just to Malmstrom, by the way, how
at Malmstroam again in nineteen seventy five, but it's happened at many other bases
where the UFO just flies over, maybe shines a beam of light on the
weapon storage area where nuclear weapons are held, and flies off. That's what
happened that at Bentwaters Base in England in nineteen eighty the UFO shown a beam
of light in the weapon storage area. It happened at Albano Air Base in
Italy in nineteen seventy nine. The UFO comes over, shines a beam of
light near the weapon storage area, flies off. It's happened many other times,
and I think it's just they're just trying to basically shine a light on
our nuclear weapons. And I think the messages get rid of these things.
So I go into a great deal in my new book Unidentified on the nuclear
issue, which is one of my main concerns, and that's nuclear weapons.
We can go into that later, I guess. Yeah, we can go
back into your book in the second hour, which is coming up in only
fifteen minutes. You know, the one thing I can never understand, you
know, like to say, let's just say they are trying to send us
a message, and I can't imagine any other explanation for it, you know,
for myself, it just seems that is the most logical conclusion that I
can think of. But you know, I wonder what it would actually take
for us to take this whole thing seriously, Hey, we're getting a message
here, if you know, it just it doesn't seem like it connects to
the right people to actually make any changes. And you know, I mean,
once these babies are built, it's so hard to reverse what we have
going on here as far as being you know, equipped to kill each other.
You know, there was a little bit of disarmament that started. I
don't know where that is now. And as a matter of fact, it
seems to me that I read something recently that they're going to rebuild a bunch
of nuclear weapons to get them back in shape again. What is you know,
I know you you were the guy down there on the trigger. What
do you think about the arms race in general at this point in your life?
Yeah, this is We're still in a very precarious situation with regarding nuclear
weapons. We have nine nuclear states now, including Pakistan, including India,
including North Korea. It's clear that North North Korea has actually done nuclear testing
and they do have a nuclear weapon. There's still a lot of new weapons
grade material out there that has not been accounted for after this fall of the
Soviet Union. There's still a lot of nuclear material out there that could be
used to build a dirty bomb, and you can bet that these terrorist organizations
would are trying to get a hold of that material and actually build a dirty
bomb, because it could cause havoc in any major city. We did have
a new Start treaty with Russia where the U in Russia we're going to reduce
their nuclear stockpiles to fifteen hundred weapons active weapons, and we're going to exchange
in inspections and other inspectors. We're going to inspect our facilities to make sure
that that happened. In fact, we did reduce the number of new nuclear
weapons. I don't think we got down to fifteen hundred yet. We've probably
got something like two thousand or more, you know, in submarines and land
based like in missiles and possibly and also bombs for bombers, although we did
eliminate that I think was the B one bomber capability for carrying nukes, but
we still have the B two. But since the crisis in Ukraine with Russia,
that's all up in the air now. I certainly don't know what the
current status is was with regard to the inspection program. But the other critical
issue, of course, is just trying to get an agreement with Iran,
which hope, hopefully we'll come to a head here within the next couple of
months. But it's still a very dangerous world out there with regard to nukes,
and we still have to focus on reducing the number of nuclear weapons we
have worldwide. I sure would like that myself. And you know what about
what about nuclear power plants? That's something I can't remember I've spoke to Robert
Hastings about that or not. Has there been any tampering? I mean,
is it, is there anything? Because you know, those are those are
actually pretty dangerous too. And not only that, something they never ever talk
about when it comes to nuclear power plants is the waste. And the waste
is the most you know, the worst part of the whole thing, because
we are putting the burden on people two hundred thousand years from now that you
know, are going to be born and have to worry about the waste.
It's still going to be active as far as you know. Has anyone tampered
with nuclear power plants? Well, there have been UFO sightings over nuclear power
plants. One of these, one of the stories I've got in my book,
goes back to nineteen forty five, even before the first nuclear bomb was
exploded. UFOs were seen over the Hanford Nuclear Facility near Hanford, Washington,
which was produced in plutonium were the first nuclear bombs, and it was chased
by Chase planes and that happened a couple of times. That was in nineteen
forty five, UFOs were seen over Chernobyl. There was actually an article improv
of the Russian newspaper people witnessing UFOs flying over Chernobyl both before and after the
milkdown there at Chernobyl. So yeah, yeah, that's this is they know
about our nuclear power efforts. And again this is highly highly dangerous as we
know from the Fukushima disaster, which still isn't over yet. No, it's
still in a disaster. They don't know the entire impact of that yet and
it's still not out of the woods as far as being safe. And no,
you know that's right. So as far as weapons are concerned, do
you know of any other type of weapons that anything has you know, report
anyone has reported that has been disarmed as well besides nuclear? I'm not sure
what you mean, Okay, Sure, what I mean is say a non
nuclear weapon of mass destruction, if they're you know, like a missile or
something. I now, I know there was that one down by in California
where they sent up a dummy, and you know it was hit by a
laser. But as far as you know, is there any other incident similar
to that when it's not a nuclear ward But I know during the missile testing
that they did in the San Dieo Sandia Range, Mexico, there were UFO
sidings there, And of course these didn't have nuclear warheads, but of course
they were. They were some of them were probably going to be, uh,
you know, designed for carrying nuclear weapons. But yeah, there were.
This was in the I believe it was in the fifties. Uh,
there were many reports of UFOs being seen in the test range where these missiles
were being tested. Yeah, now I spoke with them. I've said this
on a couple of shows, and I don't really want to be redundant,
but I did speak with someone many years ago that said they were involved in
a special part of the Air Force in the early seventies, late sixties that
investigated UFOs. He didn't say Project Bluebook or anything like that, but he
just said that he was actually in Vietnam investigating UFO sightings. I thought that
was pretty interesting. Oh yeah, there's definitely been soundings in Vietnam. Matter
of fact, I think General Brown. I believe his name was actually confirmed
to some of the troops over there. There were indeed UFO sutnings over Vietnam.
And then I've gotten reports from veterans who had served in Vietnam and actually
reported to me that they had seen them. Also, another story of my
book is a story by Mark Cock who was a squadron platoon leader, a
sergeant I'm sorry, platoon sergeant and his platoon saw very large, triangular shaped
UFO over a little town called mccossip, which is south of Baghdad Airport.
And this was in two thousand and six. So UFOs have been observed,
you know, in our theaters of war, let's say. So they're not
only they are of course interested in you know, these are sentient beings,
I believe. In other words, they're intelligent beings that are watching our progress
and to see how how we are coping with with ourselves basically were and so
they're watching our wars, they're watching the kinds of weapons we're developing, so
I think, and they've been doing this for some time. I think probably
thousands of years they've been observing us. I tend to agree with everything you
just said there and the final part of this same gentleman I was speaking about
earlier, talking about Vietnam, he also said, you know, I said,
well, what does a government you know, I think they are,
That's what I asked him, and he said, we're more or less a
Petri dish. I thought that was a very interesting statement, and that kind
of goes along with what you're saying here. So yeah, go ahead,
Yeah, So here you are. We got four about three and a half
minutes to the top of the hour. So here you are. You are
a young a young officer, you're working there in your life totally changes in
just one instant. Did you kind of just suppress the thoughts and the feelings
of the whole situation and just kind of put it in the back of your
mind until that day when you saw Timothy Goods book. Well, initially,
of course, after I was ordered not to talk about it, I was
confused. I was a little upset. This was a very significant event.
You know. We were a professional, well try to be professional about our
jobs, and our job was basically to maintain nuclear weapons and have them ready,
and here we have a situation where these weapons were disarmed, disabled rather
and we didn't know why and by the way, we would be briefed every
time we went out on alert status as to any problems in the field,
any difficulties with the equipment, et cetera. But we were never, you
know, the next two years debriefed about that. So I was very curious,
let's say initially, but hanging over me was this non disclosure statement.
So gradually and ultimately I basically tried to put this way back in the back
of my mind because I didn't want to be talking about this in some bar
and then, you know, be prosecuted for disclosing classified information. So yeah,
by nineteen ninety four, I really hadn't thought about as much at all.
However, it never never left my memory. The basic incident never left
and so yeah, I was kind of interested in the UFO question after that,
and that's how I wound up picking up Timothy Goods book up in nineteen
ninety four. And when you said that you contacted Muffon and how did it
snowball to you actually being interviewed on television? What made that happen? Well,
basically I started talking after we received documents from the Air Force saying that
the Echo flight incident had been declassified, and I was convinced that that was
my incident, because you know, the memories that I did have at that
time kind of fit in with the facts of the Echo flight shutdown. I
went public. I think I can't remember now which programs I went on.
I started giving newspaper interviews. I actually went back to Malmstrom and gave an
interview to the Great Falls Tribune and they actually published it front page. I've
still got a copy of that. So yeah, I felt that I should
talk about this as a UFO event. The Air Force and the documents they
sent us never claimed that there were any UFO and any UFO was involved in
this, but I knew better, and that's when I started going public.
Now, one last question for this part of the show, and that is
did you ever meet Tim Good and did you ever talk to him about it
where he got his information? Yes? I did meet Tim Good and we
finally figured out where we got the information. And I could go into that
if you have time now, or I can wait. Yeah, yeah,
let's let's finish this up so we don't get the first hour people unhappy like
last week. So okay, all right. One of the people that was
working at Sylvania at the time of the shutdowns was a man by the name
of Ray Fowler, and you may recognize that name, but yes, Fowler
had a crew at Malstrom on the electrical systems, and those people told Fowler
that of these shutdowns and that they were UFO events. In fact, one
of his crewmen actually saw the UFO. So when when the con investigation started,
Fowler contacted the Condon committee and told them this. And actually the investigator
of the head investigator for Connor men by the name Roy Craig, and we
can talk about this more, talked to Conan, got some details Condon.
I'm sorry Ray Conen went ahead and whitewashed this whole thing. And Ray Fowler
was so upset with that that he decided to give the Christian Science Monitor an
interview about the incident. And in nineteen seventy three he actually gave an interview
the Christian Science Spawner about the missile shutdowns and Malstrom and they published it even
though Foller was taking a big risk with his job. But that is how
Timothy Good found out about the Echo flight shutdown and published that part of it
in his book. It was published in the Christian Science Monitor in nineteen seventy
three. How about that. Well, that's it for the show today.
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