1 00:00:15,279 --> 00:00:20,760 What is up, fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am dam Fa Valley coming 2 00:00:20,879 --> 00:00:26,519 at you with the one, the only, the highly sought after, hard 3 00:00:26,559 --> 00:00:30,839 to get Adam Frommel who has never been on this podcast before, has never 4 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,359 had anything to do with it whatsoever except that's a lie. Follow him on 5 00:00:35,359 --> 00:00:39,880 Twitter at Framo zero nine. He is currently basically just running the show at 6 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:44,640 Sportscasting right now, so check them out as well. He is also a 7 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:48,880 two time like former co host of The Hardwood Knox and we still have his 8 00:00:49,359 --> 00:00:53,200 handles in. They're they're not the headers, but they're just they're in our 9 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,960 descriptions as well. So he is he is. He is Hardwoo Knox. 10 00:00:57,039 --> 00:01:00,799 It's in his blood. Welcome back to Adam Framo. First time we podcast 11 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,159 in a few months. I'm excited. I'm off the wall. I can't 12 00:01:03,159 --> 00:01:07,040 even talk. I'm so excited. FRO how are you doing? What a 13 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:08,840 warm welcome? It's been so long though, I forgot what is it? 14 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:14,400 What is a podcast? I don't know either. It's something that some people 15 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,599 listen to when the podcast is popular, so they don't listen to this one 16 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,159 all that often. But for the dozens of listeners that we have we do 17 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,560 it for you exactly. I'm just confused because I'm like seeing your face and 18 00:01:25,599 --> 00:01:27,879 you know, since I left, like you've taken all the YouTube stuff and 19 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,359 the TikTok stuff and the Instagram stuff up to that next level impressive stuff, 20 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,840 like definitely, definitely kind words. I do not deserve it. It's amazing 21 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,319 what you can do when you don't prioritize the rest of your life. Let 22 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,560 me just tell you that as you also, as you well know, I 23 00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:49,280 am excited to this feels like, I don't know, it feels like there 24 00:01:49,319 --> 00:01:52,560 should be confetti or something. I'm sure, I'm sure the listeners are excited. 25 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,879 But I did ask you to come on so that we could do backcourt 26 00:01:55,959 --> 00:01:59,280 rankings and during next season, just because why not. It was a it 27 00:01:59,359 --> 00:02:01,159 was a question we had after the Calves trade from one of our listeners, 28 00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:05,120 and I didn't think it was worth being a mail bag question. It feels 29 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:07,439 like not just an entire podcast, but a two part podcast, so I 30 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,159 asked you to do it. It's going to be broken into two parts. 31 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:14,759 We will do the bottom fifteen first, work our way up. We have 32 00:02:14,879 --> 00:02:17,280 composite rankings. We will have our individual rankings to the side of that for 33 00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:21,919 people who are watching on YouTube, and then they will also be tears to 34 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,800 help you follow along. This is all very if you get offended, like 35 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,560 I'm sorry, but this was This was one really hard, and two this 36 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,159 is just a casual basketball conversation. We're trying to project ahead. Some of 37 00:02:31,159 --> 00:02:35,599 these might change hashtag Utah Jazz. We have no idea what's going to go 38 00:02:35,599 --> 00:02:38,000 on with their back coordinat even the Lakers as well. But it was quite 39 00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:40,919 an undertaking, easier than the front line, which I started to do and 40 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,759 then junked because I don't have any desired to have to look at it. 41 00:02:46,159 --> 00:02:50,280 Three people right before we kind of cannonball in, how did you find this 42 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,039 exercise? Oh, it's impossible. You know. We have the same mentality 43 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:58,560 with all these always we always have where it's like we just spend way too 44 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:04,280 much time, you know, worrying over the minute details and whether a team 45 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,879 should be sixteen or seventeen and to lose sleep over it, and it was 46 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,000 no different this time around. I mean, I'm convinced that you brought me 47 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:15,159 on this episode solely for the Google sheets expertise that I could try to bring 48 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:19,719 to the table rather than the actual basketball stuff, but I'll take it either 49 00:03:19,759 --> 00:03:22,840 way. I honestly forgot I was going to need it before you started working 50 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,360 your voodoo. Just before in court, I was like, I didn't have 51 00:03:24,439 --> 00:03:29,319 any of this like tier and composite ranking stuff in my mind, so I 52 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,560 didn't ask you to come on for that reason. But now officially I'm happy 53 00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:36,520 that I did. I just like kind of came on and took over, 54 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:42,039 like this was spreadsheet originally no longer that that's like par for how it used 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,120 to work around here, though, is that I'd make a spreadsheet that was 56 00:03:44,199 --> 00:03:46,360 very low level and you would gussy it up for the better. So I'm 57 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,360 thankful. And just to reiterate, this is for the twenty twenty twenty three 58 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,360 season ahead, Like if you think that Jalen Suggs is going to be like 59 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,759 a five time MVP, that was not factored into this type of equation with 60 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,719 them, And for people that I following along on YouTube, I will change 61 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:03,080 the screen in just a few moments that you can see us unveil it, 62 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,319 because I know everyone's excited to watch that. But do you want to get 63 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,240 us started here by number thirty, which is this is the this is our 64 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,959 bottom tier, so it's tier six. I kind of feel like we have 65 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,759 to unveil thirty and twenty nine at the same time because we had a tie. 66 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:24,800 We talked about it before we started the show. I had one of 67 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,600 these teams thirtieth, the other twenty nine. You just had the opposite order. 68 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:34,079 So thirty for me was the San Antonio Spurs with Josh Primo and Devin 69 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:40,959 Vassell, and then we had the Lakers were in at twenty nine with Russell 70 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,720 Westbrook and Lonnie Walker. Although you could sub in Patrick Beverley if you really 71 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:49,959 wanted to, we're not counting Lebron James as a point guard for this episode. 72 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:56,319 To me, the Spurs came in in that final spot just because I 73 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,120 don't know that there's a star. I don't know that they're the creation and 74 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,399 comparing them directly to each other, since again we did have these two teams 75 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:12,040 tied in the composite rankings. It's the Russell Westbrook factor, where in all 76 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,120 likelihood he's going to continue to be that net negative, previous force who is 77 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:20,800 a shell of his old self. But but what if what if he does 78 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:29,160 accept a role that plays to his limitations and actually allows him to bring his 79 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,560 strengths to the forefront because there are still strengths. What if he buys in 80 00:05:32,079 --> 00:05:35,600 on defense to some extent, because it's too late in the career for that 81 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,879 to happen fully, but if it happens a little bit, I think that 82 00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:46,279 Russ alone has the highest upside of these four players for the twenty twenty three 83 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,000 season, and that just nudged them ever so slightly ahead, even though I 84 00:05:50,079 --> 00:05:55,040 kind of feel like we could have had a seventh tier just for these two 85 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:00,680 teams, right, I mean, I gave it, I gave it to 86 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,720 you the Lakers tiebreaker here, but I'm just not confident in I hate the 87 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,800 Westbrook Lonnie Walker the fourth fit. I think if you played Beverly next to 88 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,120 Westbrook that might make more sense. I really just also don't have confidence that 89 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,439 this is going to be the Lakers backcourt anyway. And I'm higher on the 90 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,360 Spurs quite frankly. I know you mentioned you're worried about the shot creation. 91 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:21,040 I think Josh Primo brings enough of it. There's certainly you could wonder about 92 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:25,639 Devin Vassell, for sure, but I think Josh Primo has, like some 93 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:29,600 nice squishiness, wiggleness, who is off the dribble game, and so that 94 00:06:29,639 --> 00:06:30,839 could help. And look, there might even be a down grade because we 95 00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:33,639 don't know what they're starting five is gonna look like with this team, at 96 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,879 least I haven't seen it. So like if they go a little bit smaller 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,879 and Josh Richardson's in here instead of Devin Vassell, I don't know if that 98 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:43,319 would bump it up regardless, But I do think that the Spurs when you 99 00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:45,959 sort of look at there are teams in front of them, and I would 100 00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:48,079 say, like they're probably not built to pass much if any of them. 101 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,000 But this is a team that I think could move its way up because so 102 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,279 much about the players that we're using, even though Devin Vassell's entering year three, 103 00:06:57,519 --> 00:07:00,600 they are still they skewed towards unknown, and as we find out more 104 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:03,160 about them, we could just become much much higher on them. But I'm 105 00:07:03,399 --> 00:07:08,079 I'm a firm believer that's an Antonio's backcourt is going to be better than the 106 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,680 Lakers is because I think Russell Westbrook, even insofar as he tried to adapt 107 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,560 that points last season, I just think he's an actively detrimental player unless the 108 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:21,199 team it's building image is catered to what he does best and the Lakers aren't. 109 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:25,439 So you're counting on him to adapt and him adapting I don't even know 110 00:07:25,439 --> 00:07:27,800 what that looks like because I can't picture him. You know, Is he 111 00:07:27,839 --> 00:07:30,120 going to suddenly become a good jump shooter? Are we going to see him 112 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,040 set more more screens? He's gonna knocked down shots off the catch, become 113 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,319 a really accomplished cutter. So I just have a ton of questions there. 114 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:43,600 To me, it's one of those situations where the most likely outcome might be 115 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:48,199 the Spurs being marginally better than the Lakers, but the ceilings are drastically different 116 00:07:48,519 --> 00:07:53,600 because we haven't seen enough from Primo or of a Cell yet. Even if 117 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,120 the Cell looks like he's already a nice role player, we haven't seen the 118 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:05,519 glimpses of startup. And if Westbrook does become a star cutter and commits on 119 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:07,959 the defensive end, I think the ceiling is high enough that, even if 120 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,240 it's not the most likely outcome, I'm pushing them slightly ahead here. Again, 121 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,319 it's fair, we're probably quipling. I think it's interesting that this next 122 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,399 team, though finished at number twenty eight ahead of both of these teams because 123 00:08:20,439 --> 00:08:24,600 this team was hard and so we have the Orlando Magic at number twenty eight. 124 00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:28,279 We both had them at number twenty eight, by the way, in 125 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:31,840 our own rankings. This was tough for me because Jalen Suggs is not coming 126 00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:35,480 off a good rookie year. He did get injured, and they did they 127 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:39,399 shouldered. I saw some people say that he needed like more freedom in the 128 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,960 offense. He had plenty of freedom within the offense. I might argue that 129 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,679 they test him with doing too much and playing with Mark l Folds for a 130 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,759 full season, also having Pawlo ban Caro there to where you can streamline Jalen 131 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:54,159 Suggs's role where you're sort of he's not dabbling in on ball touches, but 132 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:56,519 he doesn't have to be your primary creator, and you can get him more 133 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,480 higher quality off ball looks. I just think we're in for a much better 134 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:03,360 sophomore season from him, and I still I'm just a big believer in kind 135 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,159 of the strength when he gets going down hill and his ability to absorb contact 136 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:09,720 even if the finishing is not always there. I think he will be able 137 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,000 to generate better separation going downhill and on his jumpers, and I just expect 138 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:16,360 him to be more efficient when you're looking at some of the shots that he 139 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,200 was taking last year. And could I see this team rising up if Mark 140 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:24,120 hill Folds stays healthy. We've seen him add more directionality to his own downhill 141 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:26,720 game, and he does have sort of the little middie. I'd like to 142 00:09:26,759 --> 00:09:31,000 see him get to the line more, maybe just even get to the rim 143 00:09:31,039 --> 00:09:33,440 with better frequency. The defensive potential of this duo, though, I don't 144 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,840 want to say it's off the charts, but it's pretty high because I think 145 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,320 Suggs is gonna end up being like a really tough defender as well. Then 146 00:09:39,399 --> 00:09:43,360 you have Faults, who's just sort of disruptive and can cover bigger players too. 147 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,240 I didn't know where to put them though, because there is the Faults 148 00:09:46,279 --> 00:09:50,120 health question. He missed a bunch of time last these he looked good upon 149 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,679 return, and both of these players they have limitations and Faults specifically like his 150 00:09:54,799 --> 00:09:58,519 offensive limitations do worry me. And then we're dealing with the uncertainty of Okay, 151 00:09:58,519 --> 00:10:01,080 well, what does Jail and Suggs look like from year one to year 152 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,279 two. I'd argue that could definitely benefit them because I would expect him to 153 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,120 just be a lot better by virtue of how much he struggled as a rookie. 154 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,159 It almost feels like this is a team with a backcourt comprised of experienced 155 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:20,799 rookies because Marquelle Folts has had no continuity whatsoever in his career thanks to the 156 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,720 injuries, thanks changing teams and changing systems, and then Jalen Suggs, as 157 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,080 you mentioned, even if he's going to become that five time MVP now that 158 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,559 we referenced off the top, like, he is essentially still going through the 159 00:10:31,639 --> 00:10:39,279 hurdles that first year point guards have to undergo. Where turnovers are problematic, 160 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,559 shot selection is problematic. The game hasn't quite slowed down, and I think 161 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,399 that's the biggest thing for this duo is on the offensive end, Like the 162 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:50,240 game still hasn't slowed down for either of them. Folds has shown flashes when 163 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,919 he's been able to stay healthy, and I think they can get there. 164 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,120 They're probably going to be aided by an improving magic roster around them, with 165 00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:03,200 Banko with with Friends Wagner, who has looked phenomenal in EuroBasket to this point. 166 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:09,240 They're only Brons. I still maintain that you should rebrand this podcast as 167 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:13,600 only Dan's and only have guests named Dan. That's been off podcast that's neither 168 00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:18,080 here nor there. But yeah, I mean this is it's like an experienced, 169 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,879 inexperienced backcourt with loads of potential and loads of uncertainty. I do think 170 00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:28,919 that there's a good amount of separation between Orlando and the two bottom teams in 171 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,679 these rankings, but it's hard to be confident given what we've seen to this 172 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:37,200 point in a surge coming, especially because if the magic are better than expected, 173 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,159 if they're drastically exceeding an over under total, it's likely going to be 174 00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:46,080 because the front court plays above expectations, not necessarily because the backcourt does. 175 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:48,879 Their best passer is probably in the front court. Looking at Pablo bank Caro, 176 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:52,600 I think he's their best passer already, I will say, with him, 177 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:56,440 and then you also have like Mobamba, of course, but there's some 178 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:58,799 stretch to Wendell Carter Junior's game. You have Wagner, you have Gary Harrison 179 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:01,840 Ross, there's a lot of lineups now that it could have a ton of 180 00:12:01,879 --> 00:12:05,720 spasing, which felt like Orlando's offense could get a little clumpy over the past 181 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,799 two years, and that could help elevate the play of this backcourt. Did 182 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:13,120 you want to bring us to our next back court, which I think was 183 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,039 this They were also tough to place. They were tough to place, and 184 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,600 yet we were both at number twenty seven for them. And that's the Houston 185 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:24,399 Rockets with Kevin Porter Junior and Jalen Green. Kevin Porter Junior was one of 186 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,399 my biggest breakout candidates last season and it just didn't come to fruition. There's 187 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:37,039 just there's still not enough intelligent decision making there where it feels like he makes 188 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:43,639 his mind up before actually moving with the basketball. He telegraphs passes, he 189 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,679 telegraphs driving lanes, and it's made it tough for him to capitalize on the 190 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:52,320 athletic potential. On the flip side, Jalen Green talk about a strong second 191 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,639 half that really should Curry a lot of favor moving forward because it looked like 192 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:01,080 much like Anthony Edwards's second and half of his rookie year, where like it 193 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:07,399 started to make sense for him and you could tell that his scoring prowess was 194 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,039 starting to be realized. In the moment, I think you often see the 195 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,840 game feeling like it's slowing down for guys like Jalen Green who have that natural 196 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:20,960 scoring talent, and then all of a sudden they can make it work. 197 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,720 And he made it work in the second half of the year, and I 198 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:28,120 think that he can continue doing that. I just don't know how consistent it's 199 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:31,080 going to be. The upside of this backward is probably higher than the upside 200 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,639 for the next few in our rankings, but the downside is going to be 201 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,679 popping up more frequently than Houston would like to admit. Yeah, I just 202 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,759 don't see it from Kevin Porter Junior anymore. I think he's better suited as 203 00:13:41,759 --> 00:13:46,399 sort of a microwave sixth man. I thought, you know that after his 204 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,039 first half season in Houston. I thought there was more to plumb from his 205 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,000 playmaking. But I think he's just overstretched if he wanted to be the actual 206 00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:56,000 point guard now. Jalen Green is good enough where the dynamic still works, 207 00:13:56,279 --> 00:14:00,480 But long term for this team, I would like the idea of maybe testing 208 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:03,720 out thy Ty Washington almost right off the bat. I would be fine with 209 00:14:03,759 --> 00:14:07,960 Josh Christopher if you really want to go with Jail and Green being like the 210 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,960 like, that's your guy who's going to lead you in scoring en Assis and 211 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,200 that's how you view it. And so I'm not saying they need to deviate 212 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,039 away from this, but I think there's gonna be more upside and experimenting with 213 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,279 a different player next to Jaalen Green at this point, which is why I 214 00:14:20,279 --> 00:14:22,720 couldn't bring myself to put them any higher. And look, I could see 215 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,080 San Antonio or Orlando specifically leap Froggy Man. I just don't think there's any 216 00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:30,840 upside and the like. Wherever the Lakers end up like that, I feel 217 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,480 like they have a very I know we talked about up like you said that 218 00:14:33,799 --> 00:14:37,320 Westbrook's the best player in this tier perhaps and we're close to it, or 219 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:43,519 it could has the highest upside, and yeah, I just see limited value 220 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:46,519 there. But yeah, Houston is Houston's tough, but having Jalen Green is 221 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:48,679 like a mega good star for them. And if I would consider nudging them 222 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,960 up immediately if you told me that thy Ty Washington or even Josh Christopher is 223 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,960 going to be the guy that logs more time next to Jalen Green and the 224 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,200 more important lineups. It is funny having next to twenty six, which we 225 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:07,799 have as the Los Angeles Clippers with Reggie Jackson and Norman Powell, because I 226 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,480 think people are gonna might if they don't listen to this all the way, 227 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:13,000 like Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. We're banking on the clip like this is 228 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,759 the like they're gonna be wings. They'll have Leonard or George's like qualifies the 229 00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:20,440 four with the way they're gonna play, unless you just think that it's gonna 230 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,840 be Kauai, Paul George and Reggie Jackson and then like Marcus Morris or Nick 231 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:28,679 Latum slash of eats the zoo Bots. I didn't know how to treat this 232 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,679 one, so I interrupted there. But that was tough. It's like, 233 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,480 I wasn't gonna put Paul George as the two here, because even if the 234 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:39,639 Clippers start games like that, I think invariably their most used backcourt combination is 235 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:43,759 not gonna be with Paul George's the de facto two. I was fully on 236 00:15:43,799 --> 00:15:48,960 board with that, but I am glad you explained. But the point here 237 00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:56,080 is there's a big disparity in upside versus high floor. I think the Clippers 238 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,240 backcourt as listed is the high floor backcourt where you know what you're going to 239 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,360 get from Reggie Jackson, and you know what you're going to get from Norman 240 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:07,559 Powell. And in both cases it's good, it's not great. There's not 241 00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:11,519 that much more to plumb. You can use Norman Powell as like that secondary 242 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,919 pick and roll ball handler who can put some pressure on the basket. You 243 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:18,799 don't want to do it that frequently. He can make passes, he can 244 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,919 serve as a facilitator, he can operate off the ball, but everything has 245 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,159 to be in moderation. And the same is true for Reggie Jackson, even 246 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,840 if Reggie Jackson doesn't want it to be true. So you know what this 247 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,919 is. This is a pretty easy one to place, set it, and 248 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,639 forget it, and then see what they do with their various lineup combinations. 249 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:41,639 Because the upside for the Clippers is clearly not coming here. It's coming from 250 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,240 the health of the players we're listing as wings. Right, I would say, 251 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,320 like if we were talking about their real upside is I could see putting 252 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,879 them ahead of maybe the next two teams to start the forthcoming tier. And 253 00:16:52,919 --> 00:16:56,840 that's just where I'm at. And look, they're dynamic offensively. You look 254 00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:02,039 at Norman Powell's downhill pressure his shoot if he's healthy. Reggie Jackson, he's 255 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,640 become like a really good set jump shooter and he gives you some He's like 256 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,960 not a top tier creator, not gonna put a ton of pressure on the 257 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,240 basket, but he can really be confident with the ball in his hands. 258 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:14,079 Their value, though, is the fact that they're both not predominantly on ball 259 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,680 players. Any like Reggie Jackson can be a steward. But if they're in 260 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,160 a Clippers lineup, like you want to run things through Paul George or you 261 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,039 want to run things through Kwhi Leonard, I also do wonder is there a 262 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,599 chance John Wall enters this fold. I know everyone expects him to come off 263 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,039 the bench, and it makes the most sense to sort of give him ownership 264 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,799 over the lineups that will include at most one of choir Paul George. But 265 00:17:34,839 --> 00:17:40,240 could you see a scenario in which like it's it's Norman Powell and John Wall 266 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,480 for this or I guess less likely, even less likely be Reggie Jackson and 267 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:47,880 John Wall. The Clippers are just so versatile that we're past positions. Like 268 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,720 even separating them into a front court and backcourt feels stupid at this point. 269 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:57,039 I mean, if you know what to expect from John Wall, congrats on 270 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:04,000 beating John Wall. Maybe he hasn't played basketball and so long. At this 271 00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:11,359 point he's thirty two, I believe by the time this comes out, how 272 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,599 do we know what to expect from him in any way? Like, yeah, 273 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,680 he could absolutely play good basketball in the starting lineup, probably alongside Powell. 274 00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:22,359 Even then, I don't know how much higher this is going to rise 275 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:29,079 because it's it's impossible to figure out what exactly John Wall is going to offer 276 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,200 in twenty twenty two, twenty three. That wraps up Tier six. And 277 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,119 so just to recap, this is our bottom tier. The Spurs, the 278 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Lakers, the Magic, the Rockets, and the Clippers were all in our 279 00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:42,359 bottom tier. I would probably listen if people wanted to nudge the Clippers up 280 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,960 into Tier five. But we get to tier five, which is ranking number 281 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:52,160 twenty five, and it is the Indiana Pacers, and we have Thyreas Halibert 282 00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:56,240 of course, and Benedict Mathrin for me personally, just a vote of confidence, 283 00:18:56,279 --> 00:19:00,960 and Tyrese Haliburton, who was taps lock fucking awesome once he was traded 284 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,160 Indiana, and guess what he was capsock fucking awesome in Sacramento. I was 285 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,039 really impressed with a lot of this stuff that he did in Isolation and Indy. 286 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,119 He is still I don't think he's ever going to be hardwired to be 287 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,119 as selfish as he needs to be. But he is an a plus passer, 288 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,839 A plus plus passer to me, and he is going to make every 289 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:23,480 single lineup work because he can basically accommodate any situation. If you wanted to 290 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,480 play him next to someone who is more ball dominant, hey guess what that's 291 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,519 gonna work. I remained intrigued with Bennednick Mathren. I think because the Pacers 292 00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:33,440 have committed to this rebuild, he might be a dark horse Rookie of the 293 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:38,039 Year candidate. There was a lot more on ball juice to him watching what 294 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:41,799 I did of Summer League than I thought there was going to be. I 295 00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:45,440 think he and Haliburton can play off each other really well, and I'm excited 296 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,519 for this backcourt. Could I see them needing to be pulled back a bit 297 00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,799 just because Bennnick Mathern's a rookie, and you know, historically I do feel 298 00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:57,440 like rookie guards have harder learning curves. That's not a scientific study done by 299 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,599 me. That's just me saying that and having red stuff that suggests that. 300 00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:04,440 But I could see them needing to be pulled back. But I'm bullish on 301 00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:10,000 Tyrese Haliburton as someone who's going to be an all NBA staple, if not 302 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:11,680 like making a team every single year, like he's going to be in that 303 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,039 discussion continually, and it could happen as soon as next season. For me, 304 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:19,279 maybe not because the Pacers could be bad, but I think that when 305 00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:23,440 we're talking about two players, one player can very much elevate the standing of 306 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,680 a backcourt, and I think we'll see that with Luka Datchets in Dallas whenever 307 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,519 we get to them. But like Mathron might be good right off the bat, 308 00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:34,440 and so I love just the dynamic between these two without having even seen 309 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,880 them together yet, I was really surprised that I ended up having in this 310 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,480 low because it much like you two players I really really like watching and think 311 00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:48,920 the world of Haliburton is just good in every single situation and has already shown 312 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,440 more on ball juice than we expected in his first couple of years in the 313 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:55,759 NBA. There's still so much room to grow even if he's not going to 314 00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:59,839 be that true alpha scorer, and that could be Mathron, who was one 315 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,200 of my favorite prospects in this entire draft. The mentality that he has as 316 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,480 a scorer as a defender, like he just it feels like he gets it. 317 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:15,000 That said, without the talent to really bolster them in Indiana, they're 318 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,079 going to face a lot of defensive pressure. And I think that's why I 319 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,160 ended up having them lower is just they're probably going to put up stronger raw 320 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:29,319 numbers than you would expect from a team sitting this far down in the backcourt 321 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,559 rankings. Whether that translates to winning, probably not at this stage of their 322 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:37,359 careers because they're going to be trying to figure out how to operate alongside one 323 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,839 another, how to best probe different defensive looks that are thrown at them throughout 324 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,519 a long, grueling schedule. So I just I don't see it yet from 325 00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:51,480 a productivity standpoint, once you factor in winning and efficiency, even if they're 326 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,000 going to be fun to watch and they are going to be flashes of excellence 327 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,960 pretty frequently, brings us to number twenty four. This is just like was 328 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,519 impossible, and this because we're recording this in advance, it doesn't become dated 329 00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:06,359 in any way. But it's the Utah Jazz at twenty four and Colin Sexton 330 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,559 backcourt staple. Now like he's gonna start locking in. Is he playing with 331 00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:14,240 Mike Conley or Malik Beasley? None of them? We don't. We don't 332 00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:18,119 really know at this point. I would hazard though the fact that it, 333 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:21,640 like I would Peggan, is a better than fifty percent chance it's gonna be 334 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,839 one of those two players to start the seat, I would think it's Beasley. 335 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,480 I think Conley will either come off the bench, not play, or 336 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,440 more likely than not, be moved. That's not like, yeah, the 337 00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:33,759 Jazz might force a pullback, but like, that's not actually a bad back 338 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:37,880 court. There's not a ton unless he's If Conley's not there, you really 339 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,599 lack creation. I think Sexton's passing downhill is good enough, and I think 340 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,839 he can make passes out of the pick and roll. Are you gonna trust 341 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,960 him to create something out of nothing for others? Is he gonna pass guys 342 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,759 open though, He's going to be more of a reactive passer. But he 343 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,799 is shot very Yeah, you want to see his three point volume go up 344 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:55,039 a little bit more. I mean, if he's gonna take pull up jumpers, 345 00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:56,079 you want to see them hit him in a higher clip. But he's 346 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,960 efficient on drives, Defenses react and if you can get him to take more 347 00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:04,359 threes, he's been a very efficient for his career off the catch three point 348 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,640 shooter. And then you play with Malik Beasley, who has like some off 349 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,920 the dribble juice and he has a little bit of a down season for part 350 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,400 of last year, but he can work. Is going to space the floor. 351 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,079 Your defense is gonna be iffy. Even if Mike Comley's healthy and playing. 352 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:19,720 Yeah, he's probably the best defender of these three, which is weird 353 00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:22,960 to say. Beasley as the physical tools, Sexton has not been great. 354 00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:26,160 I still think he has another gear to get to on the ball because there's 355 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,920 just like when you look at some of his stances and the pressure he could 356 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,519 put on I'm not I'm not ruling it out, but this was it was 357 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,319 impossible to place. But I also think if you want them to just be 358 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,960 thrown down the thirty the worst version of the Jazz. It's so guard heavy 359 00:23:41,079 --> 00:23:45,000 right now that just by virtue of halling Colin Sexton there's going to be quality 360 00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:48,079 in the back court, and I think you can, you know, reasonably 361 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,119 predict that. Okay, if Conley's not there, then Jordan Clarkson or Malik 362 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,839 Beasley might be. So we're not going to get to a point you know, 363 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,720 it's Jared Butler and Nikkil Alexander Walker being there their primary ones and twos. 364 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,400 We should though, that'd be great. I want to see a lot 365 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,839 of Jared Butler. If anyone cares that that, I don't think they do. 366 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:10,519 But I mean the discrepancy in our personal rankings here because I had the 367 00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:12,079 Jazz at twenty first and you had him at twenty six, is just solely 368 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:17,799 who we picked in that second backward spot because we're recording this while Mike Conley 369 00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:19,599 is still on the roster, and I think that he makes the most sense 370 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,839 alongside Collin Sexton at this point. So I had them at twenty one because 371 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,839 Conley still has good basketball left in the tank, even if he is not 372 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,039 the peak version of himself any longer, as was made painfully clear throughout this 373 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,039 last campaign. If it's Molik Beasley, I probably dropped to right where you 374 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,480 have them at twenty six. His shooting from the outside. His ability to 375 00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:44,240 catch and shoot in particular, gives them a good floor. Just the ceiling 376 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,359 isn't quite there with him in the lineup, so it's in flux. It 377 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,000 could look nothing like this, as you said, But Sexton alone elevates them 378 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:56,559 into this tier. What if they just decide very quickly, if they decide 379 00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:00,640 we're gonna bring Sexton off the bench and it's gonna be and Beasley, does 380 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,839 that move it up or down for you? Probably a little down. I 381 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,279 mean, the exciting part of this is the the on ball, rim attacking 382 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:11,279 pressure that Colin Sexton can put on a defense. And if you're taking that 383 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,720 away to have him feature as a sixth man, your team probably isn't getting 384 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:21,440 significantly worse. But if we're looking at starting backcourt rankings, they're gonna drop 385 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,079 a little bit. Number twenty three is the Milwaukee Bucks we had Pat Connaton 386 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,720 Pennsyllena is the starting two. I think that makes the most sense. I 387 00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:33,640 would rather like. I'd definitely rather see that over Grace and Allen. It's 388 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000 a very it's a quality backcourt. And Drew Holiday shot a trillion percent. 389 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,000 That's that's factually a trillion percent on step back three's last year, and he 390 00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:44,279 can be you know, he's got like that that physicality that strengthened him on 391 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,519 offense too, and if you sometimes wish he would as a score operate a 392 00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:52,240 little bit more quickly. I think Connaton has turned into just like the quintessential 393 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,559 three and D swing man, wing, whoever you want to classify him, 394 00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:56,720 and he can move fairly well off the ball. If he's going to continue 395 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,720 to shoot the ball like he did last season two, I would listen to 396 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:03,599 a case for this being up. It was just tough. It's it's always 397 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,480 tough to place the backcourts where it's like there's one all star caliber player and 398 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,039 then very much someone who's more of a role player, and the his best 399 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,680 case outcome is not necessarily a mystery or it's there. There's limited value there. 400 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,400 So twenty three feels so low. If it was gonna be you know, 401 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,920 if they decided to start West Matthews, I don't think this changes. 402 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,119 If they start Grayson Allen, I don't know if it changes much. So 403 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,000 if you think it's gonna be one of those guys, it's definitely not. 404 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,640 If it was Drew Holliday and Chris Milton, which I do not like. 405 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,880 That's never maybe in some lineups when you're playing super big perhaps, but that's 406 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,319 that wasn't even up for consideration. So it seems low because the Bucks are 407 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,480 so good as is Drew and Conaton's fine. But I also think when you 408 00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:45,160 start to look at the names to come, you begin to understand it. 409 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,039 I couldn't move the Bucks any higher as much as I wanted to because Drew 410 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,680 Holliday. I'm just I'm worried that there is a little bit of a decline 411 00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,920 coming because we typically see point guards or shoot guards as well, they don't 412 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:07,880 always age gracefully as they enter their thirties. He's thirty two now. We 413 00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:14,279 also saw last year he created for himself unlike he had before. So last 414 00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:18,960 season, nineteen point seven percent of his made twos were assisted, forty three 415 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,759 point two percent of his made threes were assisted. Those are significantly below both 416 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,799 career averages and recent year averages, where he was at twenty six point seven 417 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,799 and fifty seven point one, respectively for his career. And he coupled that 418 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,240 with better efficiency on those shots than we'd seen in his recent history. And 419 00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:42,279 I don't know how sustainable that's going to be in an offense that is going 420 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:48,640 to continue to feature Janisanta Dakumbo and Chris Middleton and doesn't have him creating as 421 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:55,200 a primary option as frequently. I hope it can be continued because Drew Holiday 422 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:59,839 is amazing and so fun to watch and perpetually underrated. And maybe we're underrating 423 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,480 ourselves here now, but I just I don't know that. I totally buy 424 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:07,519 the version that we saw last season. Wow, so you look, you're 425 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,240 the one who might be understand I totally buy it. I'm with it, 426 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,359 like and look, so this is clearly the best defensive backcourt so far, 427 00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:18,839 right, I'm trying to think of yeah, and it's it's it's pretty easy 428 00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:22,920 looking at number twenty two, and again we are still in Tier five. 429 00:28:23,559 --> 00:28:26,400 It is. This one was just like, I feel like it reads weird. 430 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,960 But Darren Fox and Kevin Herder and Sacramento. I love the offensive potential 431 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,920 of this group. Kevin Hurder is just he can be a very fiery shooter. 432 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:38,200 There's some stuff he can do off the dribble, but he's just very 433 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,440 elusive if you get a moving without the ball, and he can take a 434 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,000 lot of those quick fire threes, the fact that you have to deal with 435 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,279 the thrust from Dearn Fox on the ball with Kevin Hurder sort of floating around. 436 00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:52,279 This could be a deadly just like one two combination in transition where Fox 437 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,000 is getting out and sprays the ball to Kevin Hurder who's trailing. They're also 438 00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:57,759 going to work well in the half court. I like that the Kings have 439 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,119 surrounded some bonus and Fox with a bunch of shooting. I question what the 440 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,920 defense is gonna look like, including for this backcourt. Herder has been I 441 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,359 guess he had. He's six seven, and you can sometimes feel him on 442 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,519 defense. Box is underachieved by and large. I think when you looked at 443 00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:18,359 some of his second halves, he's been better defensively than he's been you know, 444 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,839 through other you know, the first parts of the season. We need 445 00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:25,079 to see him put it together for an entire year. I felt weird having 446 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,519 them in front of Milwaukee, and like some other teams, I think they 447 00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:32,079 were just in front of Milwaukee my own rankings, yes they were, but 448 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,160 I ultimately think this is where they belong. And again, that's so weird 449 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:40,400 because we're talking about two like pretty young players and Daron Fox still has that 450 00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:42,720 all NBA ceiling, Like look at how he closed last year. He was 451 00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:47,839 just an absolute monster. So again this feels weird looking at it, but 452 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,640 without seeing the other names that could also make it difficult. I remember putting 453 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,000 them here and it was the same feeling with Drew and Pat Connaughton. I'm 454 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:59,519 like, putting them in the bottom ten just feels almost egregious. Yeah, 455 00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:04,119 to be a a sustainability question where if you do have this this new look 456 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,799 front court in Sacramento, that's going to demand a lot of touches that's taking 457 00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:11,519 away from these guys, and then are they going to be able to stay 458 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:18,160 as engaged when Darren Fox isn't always operating with the ball and isn't always able 459 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,720 to move and warp speed. He could, he certainly did at the end 460 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,759 of last season, but again it's a consistency thing. And the same is 461 00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:30,400 true for Hurter where in Atlanta he could fill just about any role that you 462 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,839 would ask of a backcourt member or a true wing in moderation, and then 463 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:40,319 he would disappear. So you'd have those games where he's looking like a strong 464 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,440 secondary creator creator, sometimes even a primary creator. He's looking like a guy 465 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,640 who can hit pull up jumpers, looks like he can knock down the catch 466 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,720 and shoot jumpers, and then he just disappears and you forget he exists. 467 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,880 So that's the issue to me, is as talented as they can be without 468 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:03,920 the opportunities to be players on a regular basis, what happens when they aren't 469 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:08,960 the primary options? Yeah, I think that's a perfect way to frame it. 470 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:14,680 With Kevin Herder specifically, this next team at number twenty seven, I 471 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,400 single handedly put them here, and I don't want to say, oh, 472 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,759 excuse me. At number twenty one, I don't want to say that I 473 00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,440 regret it. But it's the Detroit Pistons. Jay Nivy, Kade Cunningham. 474 00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:26,880 Jay Nivey is just a question mark in the NBA. We haven't seen him 475 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,640 yet, and so was this giving him too much credit? Maybe this was 476 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,880 all a bal kade for me. You watch him play last year. Fuck 477 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:40,319 the efficiency numbers, don't I don't care. This is ball on a string. 478 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,480 Shit Like he just has the entire game the way he can see it 479 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,160 and process it in decisions. He could make you give him more spacing or 480 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,519 more talent. I think Detroit's giving him slightly more talent than last year. 481 00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:56,359 I feel like he single handedly got Marvin Bagley paid in free agency, and 482 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,160 Marvin Bagley was really good with the Pistons last year. He showed some really 483 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,359 nice touch around the basket and some nice little paget Marvin Bagley. By the 484 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,279 way, right, Adam did say one of one of the podcasts, Marvin 485 00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:10,440 Bagley still has an all star ceiling, so he's he's with you Pistons fans, 486 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,480 but this is all about Kade for me, and not that anything you 487 00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:15,920 get from Ivy as a bonus. I do think it's gonna be big. 488 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,599 I think Kay Cunningham can work off the ball. I think we're gonna see 489 00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:22,640 a three point clip skyrocket and that's gonna maybe make him like an even better 490 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,319 defender if he doesn't like and he just has the size to come up stuff 491 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,160 the one, the two, the three, the four, He's fantastic. 492 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:34,200 I think the big thing here. I like the element that Jay Nivy adds 493 00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:37,039 going downhill if you want to get moving in transition, the way that Kade's 494 00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:39,680 able to play off of him. We could see some I'd like to see 495 00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:44,359 Kay Cunningham be a screen center here, U screed screen center. Excuse me 496 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,880 for not a screed center. A screen center for Jay n Ivy here. 497 00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:51,759 I think what it's gonna come down to is one just how good Jay Nivy 498 00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:53,799 is is a rookie, but also can he work off of Kate Cunningham. 499 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,680 I didn't watch a ton of Ivy in college, but when you do go 500 00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:00,720 back and you look at like his strengths as weaknesses some of the tape, 501 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,240 I want to know if he's going to be able to play off the ball 502 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,640 like a higher amount just because you want the ball on Kade's hands. Just 503 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,079 because he can play off the ball doesn't mean that you want to take it 504 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:15,920 away from him. And therein lies my concern and why I had this team 505 00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:21,359 seven spots lower than you and my rankings. I share your sentiments about Kaid 506 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,079 Cunningham. I think it's going to be a rough rookie year for Jade and 507 00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:28,000 Ivy. And that's not to say that he's not going to develop into a 508 00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:30,440 star player. I actually do think that he's a really good long term prospect. 509 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:36,000 But Detroit was drafting for talent, not fit here, which is the 510 00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:40,119 right thing to do in the Pistons situation where you are very much in talent 511 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:45,680 accumulation mode, not trying to plug in the pieces that are going to immediately 512 00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:50,839 vault you up the Eastern Conference standings. Ivy was an on ball stud at 513 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,279 Perdue. He does not have that much experience playing off the ball, which 514 00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:59,279 he's going to have to do if you're maximizing Kaid Cunningham's talents. Beyond that, 515 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,759 he's very much the type of prospect who's going to go through those those 516 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:08,239 issues that befall most first year of guards, where a lot of shot selection 517 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,519 is poor, There are going to be a lot of clients off the rim, 518 00:34:10,559 --> 00:34:14,320 and there are going to be a lot of turnovers because you think that 519 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,519 the game is not moving as fast as it actually is when you're trying to 520 00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:21,719 serve as a facilitator, trying to probe into lanes in a crowded space. 521 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,199 This, to me, my ranking is because they're going to give big minutes 522 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,239 to Ivy and it's not always going to go well. And I cannot be 523 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,360 more clear that I don't think that means he's not a good prospect or isn't 524 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,320 going to be good down the road, But this particular setup is not ideal 525 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:43,239 for him to thrive right off the bat. I'd be with you there, 526 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,760 and this feels like one of us will just be very wrong, is what 527 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,679 It's clear. So either you're going to be I'm almost thinking that I'm too 528 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,599 in love with Kade and I inflated their ranking, but I'm not gonna think 529 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:57,800 that's possible though fair enough, so I think that we should do these next 530 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,360 three teams together to round out to year five. What do you think? 531 00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:05,199 I'm for it? All right? So number twenty the Charlotte hornets LaMelo Voluntary 532 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,519 Rosier, nineteen the Knicks with Jalen Brunson and RJ. Barrett. Please note 533 00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:12,239 Donovan Mitchell is not part of that backcourt. And eighteen is okay say with 534 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,000 Josh Giddy and shake Gil just Alexander my rationale very quickly. Tyr Rosier and 535 00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:21,920 LaMelo Ball worked perfectly together. There's just not a lot of on ball scoring 536 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,239 there, and that's I think like you need you want at least one of 537 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,119 your backcourt members to be an aggressive or higher level on ball scorer. I 538 00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,599 think LaMelo Ball can get there. I question whether he's he's wired or do 539 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,880 it? Are you going to see him still improve as a finisher if he 540 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,239 gets stronger. I believe in the shot. I do think he can create 541 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,239 a little bit more of his jumpers off the dribble and hit them at a 542 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,920 higher clip. His passing is just absurd, and the way that he gets 543 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,800 his teammates running in transition, and the way that defenses are sort of trying 544 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,679 to plan around his decision making because there's like a randomization to the way that 545 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,039 he passes, and it's just really incredible. It's flashy and their substance to 546 00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:57,280 it. For the Knicks, I think they have the potential to skyrocket up 547 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,079 here. Maybe I'm viewing this too much in the context of like well as 548 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:04,559 Julius Randall and Mitchell Robinson both gonna be playing a ton of minutes with them, 549 00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:07,360 and then who's going to be the other players? R J. Barrett 550 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,360 gonna be playing a lot of three still for this team. I had questions 551 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,239 about what they're back, whatvers even gonna be. I think it's really just 552 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,400 a lot hinges on what does John Brunson look like in a Knicks system that's 553 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,719 not going to afford him as much spacing or complimentary shooting as Dallas did. 554 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:22,800 And then is what do the Knicks allow RJ. Barrett to do? We 555 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,119 saw them give him the keys for about half the year last season he looked 556 00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:30,079 good. Can he improve as a finisher? Can he improve sort of that 557 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,239 like off the dribble mid range game? Is his passing gonna get even better? 558 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,159 I'm just fully confident that he'll We made a good set jump shooter. 559 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,360 I know there were some ebbs and flows to his season there last year, 560 00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:45,199 and then Josh Kitty and Shay for Oka se Jay gil chows enters that guy 561 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,960 looking at his self creation, he had a down year from an outside shooting 562 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,039 perspective, but when you look at the level of difficulty on his shots, 563 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,239 his life should get easier even without Chet Holmgren this year. And I'm kind 564 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,599 of hoping that maybe he could play better, right And I'm kind of hoping 565 00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:04,559 he can defend at the level he did during his rookie season with the Clippers. 566 00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:06,960 We've still been sort of waiting for that since he arrived in Okay. 567 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,519 See, I'm not the biggest believer in Josh Giddy though. That being said, 568 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,400 the idea of Josh Giddy working with Chip England behind the scenes maybe makes 569 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,440 me think that I need to reevaluate that. And he didn't look like he 570 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,360 or rather he looked like someone who didn't belong in Summer League this year, 571 00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:24,159 which is encouraging. That backcourt has a lot of nice size which will help 572 00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:29,159 them for rebounding even if they're not. And then like Giddy's a solid defender, 573 00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:31,440 I think she has been decidedly below average in Okaycy. There's a lot 574 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,280 of different dimensions though that I think those two could take. I do worry 575 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,760 about their shooting overall. Is Giddy gonna have the ball enough or warrant enough 576 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,079 attention when he does from the defense because they know he's not looking to score. 577 00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:45,519 Is he gonna go to his floaters? Is he gonna look to attack 578 00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:50,000 to him that Shay gets these higher quality looks as a set jump shooter, 579 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,159 or is too much of the offensive creation Burton going to fall on him? 580 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,599 And does Okay see without ched Homegrenn have enough you know, orbiting shooters to 581 00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:01,079 maximize and optimize those guys. And so I think you could probably fuck and 582 00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:05,320 fiddle with the order here. If I had to bet which three had the 583 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,119 highest upside leading into next season. I actually think it's the Knicks because Jalen 584 00:38:08,159 --> 00:38:14,519 Brunson is really good. But these three for me were absurdly tough. And 585 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,519 that's even looking at them now. I didn't actually have them. You had 586 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:20,639 them one right after the other in your rankings. I did not, but 587 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,360 I had the thunder of the Knicks right together. They're basically inseparable for me. 588 00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:30,719 So I'm glad that you unveiled these as a trio because you can shuffle 589 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,039 them up in any order and you can pretty easily justify it. I think 590 00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,199 an interesting way of looking at it is just you know, we have six 591 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,480 players here, one to six, best to worst. I think it's probably 592 00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:45,559 Shay at number one, LaMelo at number two, RJ. Barrett and Jalen 593 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:50,400 Brunson to me are pretty even at three and four, and then it's probably 594 00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,880 Rose Yeer at five and Giddy at six. But I think Shay has by 595 00:38:54,039 --> 00:39:00,199 far the highest, Like I can carry a unit ceiling because LaMelo, as 596 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:06,000 good as he is at so many things, he requires other pieces. I'm 597 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:07,400 with you. I didn't want to ask who do you think is the best 598 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,920 defender of these six. I know a lot of people don't think guard defense 599 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,960 matters but it matters at least a little bit. Probably is it already it's 600 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,519 LaMelo or Barrett, right, I think it's probably Barrett or LaMelo. Then 601 00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:24,760 I would go with Barrett, and then Rosie is probably ahead of Brunton, 602 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,719 Shay and Giddy at this point. But yeah, I just thought that was 603 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,239 that was fascinating. Who do you which backhard is the highest upside next season 604 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,199 to you? Of these three? To me, it's LaMelo and Rosier actually, 605 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,159 because I think that LaMelo has scoring upside, he just doesn't play that 606 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,679 way and what if he does? To me, like more than any of 607 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,400 these other guys, I think he's the one who can become the all around 608 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,400 superstar. I don't I don't know that I ever see s Ga becoming an 609 00:39:54,440 --> 00:40:00,639 all defensive player while also scoring twenty five a game. I can see Lamello 610 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,079 doing that and also you know, having nine or ten assists a game. 611 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,280 Yeah, he's the better, He's the better passer. There that those two 612 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,360 are interesting, Like I've never needed to compare them, and I don't know 613 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,239 why you would until this discussion, But that's sort of a fascinating debate. 614 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,519 So that wraps up Tier five for us and so the members of Tier five 615 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,760 were and this is in you know, ascending order, the Pacers, the 616 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,400 Jazz, the Bucks, the Kings, the Pistons, the Hornets, the 617 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,880 Knicks, and the thunder. That moves us too tier that was tier four. 618 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,039 Excuse me, this moves us to tier that was tier five. Wow, 619 00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:37,920 I'm tripling all my words. We were in Tier four. And the 620 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,199 first member of Tier four checking at number seventeen in our back court rankings is 621 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,519 the Miami Heat with Kyle Lowry and Victor Oladipo. My first instinct is, 622 00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:50,719 this feels too high. It does feel too high. Immediately, I'm trying 623 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,599 like, Kyle Lowry can still be good. Was banged up last year. 624 00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:55,360 I don't want to read too much into how he sort of finished the season 625 00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,039 in some of the playoff moments that he had. Victor Oladipo coming back and 626 00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:02,679 being healthy and not needing to be even the Heats like second best or even 627 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:07,719 third best player is interesting to me. I do think this could sneakily be 628 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:13,239 the best defensive backcourt that we've seen to date in these rankings, and that's 629 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:19,159 including above the oh my god, I'm stumbling here, the who's the best 630 00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:22,559 defensive backcourt that Drew Holiday Pat Connatton. So far, I could see this 631 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,239 these two getting at least that honor, but they were I'm wondering if I 632 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,960 was. We had them in similar spots, so were we too aggressive with 633 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:34,719 them? Kind of feel like we were, Like a big part of me 634 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,880 wants to drop them into Tier five here. My whole thing is that this 635 00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:44,320 is the one of the few backcourts we've seen to date where both of the 636 00:41:44,559 --> 00:41:50,039 players can be above average defensively and then also generate their own shot on offense. 637 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,280 And that is like a pretty big deal. Imagine how good this lineup 638 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,239 would have been in like twenty seventeen. But like, that's the issue, 639 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,039 right, is that how much more are you going to get from these guys? 640 00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:07,079 Lowry showed those first age related cracks last season. Oladipo is a ticking 641 00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:13,000 time bomb with the constant injury issues that he's had to deal with. I 642 00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:15,920 don't know that I'm ever gonna feel comfortable betting on him playing upwards of seventy 643 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,519 games, and Lowry's probably not gonna either, so as talented as they are, 644 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,840 I kind of as we're going through this exercise and talking more about some 645 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,400 of these younger players and how they fit together, like I might revamp and 646 00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:37,719 have them like below Charlotte. Yeah, I think I'm thinking we put them 647 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,239 too high. But there's also just the level of like I said, the 648 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,000 dynamism that I've said for both ends on them. And look, I'm just 649 00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:50,800 buying into like Kyle Lowry being better and healthier this year, and that prospect 650 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,920 is enough for me. And he's also just he elevates the play of his 651 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,440 teammates when you look at the way he defends, you look at the stuff 652 00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,119 he does on away from the ball, on offense. As we get to 653 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,559 number sixteen here, and I'm gonna give you the talking stick for this one, 654 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,559 we have we have the Brooklyn Nets with Kyrie Irving and Steph Curry. 655 00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:13,039 The one thing I'll note is, because Kyrie's there and you look at the 656 00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:15,719 Nets wing rotation, Ben Simmons is not a wing, but he's not going 657 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:21,440 to be the starting point guard here. I did wonder for a second there's 658 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,199 a line that they can run out where maybe Kyrie and Ben Simmons are the 659 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,280 backcourt, and I think that would change the complexion of these rankings a ton. 660 00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:30,000 But the Nets are at number sixteen, that is outside the top fifteen, 661 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:34,079 and we did share similar sentiments on this, So I want to hand 662 00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:37,880 the talking stick to you so you can justify why they're in Tier four. 663 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:43,519 Availability is part of it, right, We're not going to see the same 664 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,840 reasons for Kyrie Irving being kept off the floor that we did this last season. 665 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,480 But even beyond that, now, does he want to play eighty two 666 00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:57,159 games in a season? Is he capable of staying healthy enough to play anything 667 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,880 close to eighty two games in a season? Even if you've passed the availability 668 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,400 concerns, which Seth Curry has had some of as well, it's kind of 669 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,719 a one dimensional backcourt. Or I think you can make a case that Seth 670 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,760 Curry throughout his career has been a little bit underrated on the defensive end. 671 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,320 He has good hands, he has some good instincts on the perimeter, but 672 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,840 he can get bullied around. He loses track of his man off ball. 673 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,880 It's not always pretty. And I don't have anything to say about Kyrie Irving's 674 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,039 defense because for me to have something to say about it, it would have 675 00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:30,320 to exist. So the offensive for a tiny little bit, the offensive ceiling 676 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:36,000 here obviously through the roof, this could look like a top five backcourt on 677 00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:38,199 any given night, because Kyrie Irving can go for sixty points on any given 678 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:43,880 night. It's what happens when that doesn't happen that is the issue. So 679 00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:49,440 I think this is a significant step up from Kyle Auron Victor Oladipo, which 680 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,679 I realize is ironic considering I'm staring at me ranking Kyrie Irving and Seth Curry 681 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:59,599 one spot below them. But I don't know how much I believe in this 682 00:44:59,679 --> 00:45:04,719 back court despite the obvious name power. And I think even if you included 683 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,880 Ben, I don't think that's gonna end up being the back court. But 684 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,239 if you said it was Ben Simmons and Kyrie, there's just so much combustibility 685 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,000 here with health. Ben Simmons dealing with the back stuff, Seth Curry just 686 00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:16,079 had ankle surgery, Kyrie Irring has always just dealt with something when it comes 687 00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:20,400 to injuries. Joe Harris working his way back from ankle surgery as well, 688 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,880 if you want to throw him in here. So the ceiling is through the 689 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,239 roof, as Michael Jordan would say, or the ceiling is the roof, 690 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,440 as Michael Jordan would say, but there's just not enough certainty here. And 691 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,280 I look, there's defensive concerns for sure. We know so much of an 692 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,760 NBA offense now is finding weak points on the team's defense and just poking it 693 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,760 and prodding it and continuously going after it. I feel like you can do 694 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,079 that a lot against Brooklyn's back court. Right then you want to throw Patty 695 00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:46,679 Mills in this equation or whatever, And so Ben Simmons will help neuter some 696 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,320 of that. But again, are we viewing him as the back court? 697 00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:52,840 How often is he even going to play if we consider him as that? 698 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,679 So, yeah, I didn't know what to do with this team. I 699 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,840 feel bad putting them this low. I also don't feel bad at the same 700 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,639 time because of how much uncertainty needs to be caked in with just like, 701 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,079 is this even? Is Kyrie of an even in Brooklyn to finish the season? 702 00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:09,639 I know everything's not hunky Dorian Brooklyn, but we just had the Nets 703 00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:15,840 wouldn't give him a max contract extension. He was looking actively for another destination 704 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,239 and couldn't find one. It had to opt in because he wouldn't have gotten 705 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:22,599 max money in free agency probably like and then Kevin Durant requested a trade and 706 00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:25,440 then rescinded it. This is just like the nets are so unbelievably combustible. 707 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,280 I don't actually feel bad about putting them here. So you look at the 708 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:30,960 talent and it's like, oh okay, and you even look at the offensive 709 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,599 fit it should be fine. There's just too many question marks here. Plus 710 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,880 I didn't want to feel like there's a step up as soon as we get 711 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,760 to this next team. And well, I was also going to say, 712 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,119 like, we had these next four teams looped so closely together, so do 713 00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:47,440 you want me to unveil them at the same time? And this is how 714 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,280 we're going to conclude the first part of this. So at number fifteen, 715 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,840 we have the Denver Nuggets with Jamal Murray and Contavia's Caldlopope. At number fourteen, 716 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,239 we have the New Orleans Pelicans with CGM call Him and Herb Jones. 717 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,239 At number thirteen, we have the Chicago Bulls with Lonzo Ball and Zach Lavine. 718 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,960 And at number twelve we have the Washington Wizards with Monte Morris and Bradley 719 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:15,039 Beale. We both had these all of these teams ranked between twelve and sixteen. 720 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,440 So this is just very apropos that they landed here. For me specifically, 721 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,280 I don't like all of these were tough. Bradley Beale's coming off a 722 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,440 down year. I think he's probably the best player of this eight at his 723 00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:32,920 peak, though Jamal Murray's coming back from an ACL injury. Lonzo Ball isn't 724 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,400 even gonna be ready to start the season at this point. I think Zach 725 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:37,840 Lavine is just so good that you have to bring him up. And so 726 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,280 I'll I'm like jumping around here, and so I'll start with the Nuggets. 727 00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:45,599 I could envision this being higher because Jamal Murray and KCP worked really well together. 728 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,239 KCP is gonna give you some point of attack defense in addition to his 729 00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:52,480 shooting on offense. I think he can move fairly well and transition away from 730 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,519 the ball too. And then Jamal Murray when he got injured, was playing 731 00:47:55,599 --> 00:48:00,440 like some really gritty defense himself. And we know about out is off the 732 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,760 dribble creation he improved as a pass or the way he works off of Nicole 733 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:09,280 Yokich is just absolutely fantastic. There's a much higher ceiling here than number fifteen. 734 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,519 It's just Jamal Muray is coming back from an ACL injury, and so 735 00:48:13,639 --> 00:48:16,159 there is sort of that question mark there, and then you're looking at like 736 00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:20,519 SJ. McCollum and New Orleans being so good and Herb Jones being a dominant 737 00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:23,079 defender. I think Zach Lavine is just an absolutely fantastic player if Lonzo Ball 738 00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:27,840 is healthy, He's just sort of the ideal offensive connective tissue as an away 739 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,320 from the ball shooter or somebody who can keep the ball moving or get you 740 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:35,840 jump started in transition. So you're just like, my thoughts are incoherent here 741 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,360 because these four were so inextricably tied together. And I think what's what's really 742 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:46,760 funny is that these four I maintain this order. But if you were asking 743 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:52,880 me like ceiling expectations, I might just reverse it because I think that Jamal 744 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:58,360 Murray has that explosive potential, has shown that defensive grittiness and is a really 745 00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:02,639 strong fit with KCP if KCP is in full working order as at three and 746 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,880 D guy who can take all sorts of pressure off him Hurt Jones, there's 747 00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:12,280 he's a defensive menace, a defensive system unto himself already with room to GROW's 748 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,119 offensive game. CJ McCollum just shot flames as soon as he arrived in New 749 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:21,559 Orleans Lonzo Ball. Aside from the injury, he's currently dealing with just a 750 00:49:21,639 --> 00:49:27,840 perpetually underrated defensive force who is still a somewhat efficient offensive player, and if 751 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,039 his three point shot is falling, is actually a pretty good player. And 752 00:49:31,159 --> 00:49:36,679 then the least exciting of them is probably the Wizards as my I mean, 753 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,800 you know how much I love Monte Morris, but like he is what he 754 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:45,719 is. He's an efficient point guard who doesn't make mistakes, which also limits 755 00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:47,840 his ceiling on any given night. And we know what Bradley Beale is. 756 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:53,199 He's not getting any younger. So as much as I think that Bradley Beale 757 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,199 is the best player of this group of four, that this order that we 758 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480 have makes a lot of sense. If you're asking me, like upside rankings, 759 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:07,039 just totally reverse it. Yeah, I think that's a good point. 760 00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:10,800 I might say the McCollum HERB Jones, one might I guess HERB Jones can 761 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,239 improve so much, it's just there's not gonna be a ton of creation are 762 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,840 even with CJ having improved there the past couple of years. I do think 763 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,760 the Bulls maybe they need to be lower entering the year, just knowing about 764 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,400 Lonzo Ball's injury. I made my rankings before it. You made it after 765 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,880 the news that he was gonna not be ready with that knee injury. But 766 00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:30,239 Zach Colvine is just so good, Like he has to be one of the 767 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,480 if you're asking someone just create a jump shot, three point shot off the 768 00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:37,320 dribble in the NBA, there's like maybe four or five players you'd want instead 769 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:42,440 of him, honestly, Like he's just become that much of a force. 770 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,800 And so but the Lonzo Ball injury, it's like, so Zakovine is sort 771 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,719 of carrying the Bulls at this point because the uncertainty with Lonzo's injury. I 772 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,840 could listen to an argument for why they would need to drop again. It's 773 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,480 like I said, there's questions elsewhere. It's with the Pelicans. I like 774 00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:59,360 the idea of them going with this backcourt. You have Ingram and Zion williamsone 775 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,199 he's healthy, and you just get your creation from those two in McCollum, 776 00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:05,679 But when you look at this backcourt specifically, there's not actually a ton of 777 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,639 primary self creation here. You'd probably rather have Ingram and maybe even Zion run 778 00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:13,119 the offense than McCollum, just because of the attention Zion draws when he as. 779 00:51:14,159 --> 00:51:16,719 I'm also just trusting you with McCollum and Herb Jones because I believe where 780 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,480 I was filling out my ballot it specifically said just trust me. I talked 781 00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:24,159 to Pelicans people I wanted to confirm, and look, they did it. 782 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,960 They announced it this way too last year. But the Pelicans rosters like kind 783 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,440 of wonky. But I love the idea of like going with this and then 784 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,360 having Ingram and Zion and then Joas out and Jutis and that's you're starting five. 785 00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,559 If we're wrong, then I actually think that they can only go down 786 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,719 if it's McCollum and DeVante Graham. Unless it's McCollum and brandon Ingram, you're 787 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,400 not gonna You're not gonna move up, would be my argument there. I'm 788 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:51,960 ready for the brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson backcourt. Look some of those lineups, 789 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,239 if they really wanted to, they could just roll with it and try 790 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,599 it. Have have Herb Jones, Trey Murphy and then Larry Nance. Just 791 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,639 that's your front line, Like they'll defend the front line. That's gonna do 792 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,840 it for part one. Hope you enjoyed this. Please remember to subscribe to 793 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,360 this podcast on YouTube and Spotify and Apple. That helps us out a ton 794 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:13,239 download every episode. That's apparently I've read an article that's how we actually move 795 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,920 up the charts and Hardwood Knox did for the first time hit the top ninety 796 00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:19,840 of basketball podcasts in the US, and so I'd really like to break that 797 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,840 and improve upon it. Follow Adam. I love him. I miss him 798 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,480 even though we talk all the time because he's one of my best friends. 799 00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:30,320 That's also what made this podcast so enjoyable for so many years, is it 800 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,800 wasn't just a business partnership. Like I legitimately care about Adam even though he's 801 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,000 a dirtbag trader at this point. Follow him on Twitter at Framo zero nine. 802 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,119 The socials are in the podcast description for NBA Math, Sports, Math, 803 00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,239 all that Jazz until next time. And like always, I speak for 804 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,840 Adam and myself when I say we leave you with the shout outs of one 805 00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:50,199 the only Frank Nilikina