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special operations covert ask me an the Team

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House with your hopes. Jack Murphy, David Park, Hey, guys,

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welcome to episode two hundred and thirty
five of The Team House. I'm Jack

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Murphy, I'm a is it over
here? Oh sorry, guys, my

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phone was on apologies. So episode
two hundred and thirty five of the Team

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House. We're here with our guest
tonight, Brent Tucker. I'm Jack Murphy

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here with David Park. First thing, I just want to tell you guys

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real quick about sponsor of tonight's show, Dark State. If you guys are

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So with that said, Brent,
again, thank you for being on the

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show tonight. Really appreciate you joining
us on a Friday evening. Absolutely,

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thanks for having me. I truly
do appreciate it so again because I got

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a little distract in the beginning.
Brent is a twenty year veteran of Army

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Special Operations. He served in twentieth
Special Forces Group and then he served in

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Delta Force, deploying to Afghanistan,
Iraq, and Syria. Today he runs

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the First Responder Coffee company and he's
also the co host of the Anti Hero

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podcast. We're really happy to have
you here today, Brent, And uh,

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you know, I'll kind of started
off from the top asking the same

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question I ask all of our guests
about their origin story. If you could

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tell us a little bit about where
you grew up, what your upbringing was

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like, and sort of how that
took you on a path towards the military.

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Yeah, I grew up in a
small town in Florida, Sanford,

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Florida, working in a family business. We owned Tucker's Farm and garden center

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that my grandfather started. That was
I was one of the few people who

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didn't want to leave my small town. But I just wanted to work in

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the family business. Like my path
in life was was already set, and

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I was more than happy to go
down that path. I definitely wasn't a

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an adrenaline junkie as a kid.
I was a pretty quiet kid, So

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definitely not someone you would have you
would have pegged for for anything in the

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special operations realm or even leaving town
at any point. So so how did

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that happen? I mean, if
you were on this track of like going

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on taking over the family business.
Yeah, so the September eleventh happened.

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I mean I had it's it's crazy
September tenth. September tenth, I'm twenty

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years old, you know, still
chugging down that that same path that I

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was on as a as a little
kid. September eleventh happened, and uh,

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you know it changed. It changed
my world the same way it changed

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a lot of people's world. I
I knew I wanted to do something.

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Uh. I made a decision that
day that I kind of would make time

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and time again throughout my my military
career when I when I had to come

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to make a big decision, which
was I didn't want to live a life

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with regrets, you know, I
didn't want to be I didn't want to

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be seventy years old, you know, looking back, and said, man,

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when I was our country got attacked, almost three thousand people died,

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and I felt like I should have
done something, but I just played it

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safe and stayed in my small town. That that, honestly is the I

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mean, there's the genesis right there, that that line of think and started

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it. I raised my hand.
Uh. It took me till September twenty

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seventh. Actually, UH signed the
paperwork and off I went the and and

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I only meant to uh to do
is you know, a four year stint

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and then and come right back to
to my small town. And Yeah,

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as the saying goes, if you
want to make God laugh, tell them

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your plans. I couldn't have been
anymore wrong. And I continued to be

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wrong about my career as as it
progressed. So so what did you enlist

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as as far as like your mos
what was kind of like your plan going

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into the military, the one that
God laughed at of course. Yeah.

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When when I knew nothing about the
military, and I mean well next to

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nothing, my dad would take me
to air shows. My dad wanted to

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be a fighter pilot so bad,
I guess when he was in his late

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teens. Uh, then eyesight got
him and so he didn't He didn't get

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a chance to chase that dream.
So I definitely grew up in a military

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friendly family. You know, we
watched war mood movies. You know,

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my dad made us watch all the
Vietnam documentaries and I loved it. So

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we were we were a military friendly
family. But no one was talking about

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joining and I had no idea what
I was going to join. So a

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good friend of mine that I went
to high school with, Jessica Butters,

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her dad was was all as I
knew was that he was in the military.

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I knew nothing more than that.
Come to find out, he was

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a CW four at a National Guard
unit, a National Guard Air Defense Artillery

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unit out of Daytona Beach. So
he was the first. He was the

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only person I knew. So I
went to him and said, hey,

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you know, a country got attacked. I want to do something about it.

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So I came to him. He
gave me pretty good advice. He's

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like, hey, I'm in the
National Guard. I think you should do

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that. You'll get a chance to
fight, you'll get called up, but

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but you know, you don't have
to go away for four years. It

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sounded like a good plan to me, sound like I was gonna get what

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I wanted, which was to deploy. And so I went to the recruiter

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that he recommended me to go to, and for a guy who wanted to

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join the military and fight, I
got put in Air Defense National Guard,

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which may not have seen a lot
of action. So that was that was.

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It took me about a year to
well, probably took it took it

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took less than a year for me
to figure that out. But you know,

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figuring it out to one thing,
but doing something about it is is

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another. So as soon as as
soon as I got a basic in AI

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T, we did get mobilized to
go to the invasion of Iraq. And

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we sat around for like six months
and Fort Bliss, and at that point

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we had a sister battery coming back
from Afghanistan, and so I couldn't wait

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to talk to those guys to see
what war was like. And I asked

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them and they did like a fourteen
month deployment to Afghanistan, and I found

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out that it was a Patriot missile
battery that you were with, Brent,

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sorry to interrupt, Yeah, so
that would have been a part of the

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unit. Me in particular, I
was in short range A defense, which

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was Stinger missile operator so or stingled. Yeah, so shoulder fired Stinger missiles

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fourteen Mike, which eventually became fourteen
Sierra because I had to go to the

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little bit longer course to do the
the Avengers like that that hum Vy with

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the four missiles on each side of
the turret. So that's a the Avenger

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is That's that's what I went to
school for. But when those guys went

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overseas for fourteen months and came back, they just guarded the gates. That's

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all they did. They did nothing
to guard the gates, which which was

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my worst fear come true. I
kind of eventually was slowly figuring out I

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don't think the Taliban has a lot
of helicopters to shoot down, and I'm

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not sure my skill set will be
utilized in the war on terror. So

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I asked those guys and said,
hey, what like then, who was

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doing things, and they they told
these stories that were probably a little bit

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true, but a little bit embellished. They'd be like, oh, man,

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these special Forces guys, these Green
Brays would would come on to would

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come to our come to our gate
with blood all over their home v's and

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I'd have to be like, hey, sergeant, I need your IDs and

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they'd be like, f you just
opened the gate. And so I was

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like, so what'd you do?
It was like, well, I opened

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the gate, what do you What
do you expect me to do? I

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was like, man, and a
part of me was like this guy's kind

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of sound like assholes, and the
other party was like those guys sounded really

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cool. So I eventually found out
about twentieth Special Forces Group, which is

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a National Guard group, and that
started really my my, my whole first

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fight trying to trying to do that
because we were we were mobilized at the

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time, getting ready to go,
and that was the nail on the coffin.

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I was like, I don't,
I don't. I don't want to

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do this. I want to do
that, and so it's very difficult as

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a National guardsman who's already mobilized.
And we went through the whole mobilization process

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and what you know, we're supposed
to be even though we didn't leave when

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we were supposed to, they were
gonna just kind of hold us in this

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limbo as a mobilized unit. They
could call any time. And so we

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sat there for months at El Paso
waiting for a call that never came.

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So I started fighting with my my
company leadership then telling hey, I want

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to go to Special Forces. I
want to go to National Guard, to

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twentieth Group. They kept saying no. They told me all sorts of lies,

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like well, you have to be
an E five to go be a

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Green Beret, so you'll have to
wait a few years. Yeah. I

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00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.200
then you just talked to a few
more people found out that wasn't true,

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you know. I mean just twentieth
Group, when in a weird way,

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has a lot of like with other
National Guard units, has a lot of

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myths like surrounding it. And you're
like, oh, you can't go to

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twentieth Group because you have to be, you know, a an active duty

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Special Forces guy first, and when
they come out, that's how they go

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to twentieth Group. I mean,
just all sorts of things just weren't true.

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I eventually found I don't know if
you guys remember this. You guys

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remember the AKO White Pages. Yeah, yeah, that's how I found my

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twentieth group recruiter. I went to
the AKO White Pages and I googled twentieth

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Special fort Google probably went searched twenty
Special Forces and I actually found a recruiter

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number out of Ocala, Florida,
which would have been the closest one to

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me. So I'm still deployed or
mobilized in Texas and I call him,

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and I still remember the guy who
picked up because I ended up. He

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was a support guy there and was
a recruiter. He picks up the phone,

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Sergeant first class carry and and I
was like, hey, I just

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want to introduce myself. My name's
Private first Class Tucker and I want to

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be a Green Beret. And he
asked me like two quick questions, like

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yeah, how long has been?
He was like, right, first class?

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Where you at? I told him, He's like, how long have

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you been in? And I told
him and he basically goes, I'll call

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me back in like a year and
then hangs up the phone. And again

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I was like, man, these
guys are kind of dicks. I think

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maybe I'm a dick, but that's
I don't know. I kind of want

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to, like I love that,
like you're not good enough and you have

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to prove yourself and you know this, You've got to come and stand out

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in front of the door and wait, wait your turn, right yeah,

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I mean you know it's not this. Everyone gets a trophy mentality. I

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can't can't wait to welcome you,
you know, I you know, I

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enjoyed that. We we demobilize A
few short months later, I called him

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right back and talk to someone else
on the phone who was a little more

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welcoming, and told him my sob
story and they said, you know what,

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come over here and do a uh, do a small tryout and we'll

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and we'll see. So I show
up knowing absolutely nothing to this small tryout.

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I knew they told me to get
ready to ruck and do a pt

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test at least, and so I
said, okay, And I showed up

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not knowing anything but knowing the Hey, like, also, I know about

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soldiering is like boots and uniform matters, and I'm not a Greenbory yet,

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so I better show up with with
polished boots and a press uniform. Uh.

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And I did that, and I
was immediately scolded for it and told

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to get into two pts and don't
don't ever wear those around here again unless

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there's some sort of award ceremony going
on. And I said, okay,

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I like this place already. I
did the did the PT test and the

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and the ruck, and I did
very well on it. They said,

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hey, we want to bring you
over our program and sending a selection as

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soon as possible. Go back and
tell your unit that you want to uh,

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that you want to transfer over here. And that's where the real fight

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kind of started. You know.
They they they had already been given me

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a bunch of you know, slow
roll in me, and now they just

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simply told me, nope, we're
not going to send you. But like

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before the mobilization, we sent a
couple of guys over there, they never

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make it. You know, I
don't waste our time with the paperwork.

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00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.120
Don't waste your time. We're just
not going to send you over there.

206
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:31.480
So I carried that message back to
twentieth Group and the sergeant major laughed at

207
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.720
it and said, hold on,
I'll make a phone call. They can't.

208
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.759
It's it's I told you to do
that, but it's really not up

209
00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:43.159
to them. So it makes a
phone call. I go back to work.

210
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.559
A couple of days later. They're
like, well, you got what

211
00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:48.919
you want. I hope you're happy. We'll we'll see you in a couple

212
00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.879
of months when you don't make it, which was one of the best things

213
00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:58.279
they could have done for me,
because I absolutely trained my ass off.

214
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.799
I couldn't stand them anymore. I
did, you know, I had too

215
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:06.679
much pride to get to fight that
hard and then you know, have to

216
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.600
swallow it and come back and tell
them I wasn't good enough. I go

217
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:17.080
to selection a few months later,
I come, I come back. I

218
00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:18.759
think I had to turn in some
gear that I still had from them.

219
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.639
And for whatever reason, I was
kind of hoping that they'd be like,

220
00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.159
hey, we're wrong about you.
Good job. You're like the only guy

221
00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.080
that's ever that's ever made it.
Uh. Instead they're like, well,

222
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.840
guess what, you haven't made it
yet. You know half the guys don't

223
00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.159
make the que course, so you'll
be right back. And that was the

224
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:40.240
last time I saw him. And
I'll tell you how petty I can be.

225
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.919
When I retired twenty years later,
after the Delta Force. A part

226
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.960
of me wanted to drive down there
and and shove my two fourteen of their

227
00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:55.799
face and say see, see,
see what I did. But of course

228
00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:03.879
I think everyone there would have been
yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's

229
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.400
how that's how I got to uh, that's how we got the twentieth group.

230
00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:18.240
I was unfortunate. I was unfortunate
enough to be smart, which means

231
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:23.799
I got to be an eighteen Echo. I put after a selection, I

232
00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:30.640
put down the four moss I wanted. I put Bravo, Charlie, Echo

233
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:34.440
Delta. I sure as E didn't
want to be a Delta. Uh.

234
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.880
They said, congratulations, you got
you got you got your top three,

235
00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:42.079
is what the guy told me.
And I was like, what's that mean?

236
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.440
He goes, You're an Echo was
in your top three? It was

237
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.119
only four choices. It was it
was second to last, is what it

238
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.000
is what I viewed it as.
There's two reasons I wasn't real happy about

239
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:57.920
getting being an Echo because at the
time they had a longer que course than

240
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.400
Bravo and Charlie. Uh. And
so at that time and in two thousand

241
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.240
and two, everybody thinks the wars
are gonna go away if you don't hurry

242
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.720
up and get over there. So
I wanted to short him a west Bravo,

243
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.559
we're Charlie. You know. I
wanted to try to clip out of

244
00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.559
Spanish and you know, and and
be in Afghanistan, and you know,

245
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.640
eight nine, ten months, I
mean, the Q course is already long

246
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:25.799
enough with without without the rest of
that. Again, my what I wanted

247
00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.039
never seems to work out, and
I always have to just deal with what

248
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:34.279
I got. So I got echo. I stayed there longer I tried.

249
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:40.279
I tried to test out of Spanish. I missed it by like two questions.

250
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.160
And uh, of course, the
you know, the jokes on me.

251
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.200
I didn't get to miss. Maybe
I missed the deployment. So instead

252
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.119
of thirteen, maybe maybe i'd have
had fourteen if if I got out of

253
00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.759
there a little quicker. But yeah, there's there's a there's a lot of

254
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.039
war left. And and really I
look back at that general ration of Q

255
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:04.039
course guys, and they were good
dudes. Man, I'm telling you,

256
00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:10.079
I couldn't be I still talked to
some of those guys in the Q course

257
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.599
to this day. They were such
good dudes, and they went on to

258
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:19.119
do amazing things and really little did
we know that era of Q course students

259
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:25.079
was really going to see fifteen years
of war after that, which which really

260
00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:29.440
may be the most amount of combat
you know, any other generation was was

261
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.480
going to see, and we had
we had no idea what what what we

262
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.359
were in for. Brent, real
quick, sorry, real quick, We

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00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:45.000
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Brent, I want to ask you
a little bit about how nineteenth and

304
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:07.319
twentieth group are structured because we know
that the different SF groups generally have you

305
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.079
know, are assigned an area and
aligned to a particular How like, how

306
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.880
did they choose your language? How
are nineteenth and twentieth Group the guard units

307
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:22.119
aligned? Yeah, at the time, a battalion aligned with the group,

308
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:27.240
So third Battalion, twentieth Group aligned
with seventh Special Forces Group. So I

309
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:36.359
got Spanish because our our battalion was
aligned with seventh. Okay, that's yeah.

310
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.759
The well, which which really kind
of gets me into to my days

311
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.279
with with twenty Special Forces Group.
As a Green Beret, I was.

312
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.079
I spent my whole guard time as
a as a as a single guy,

313
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:55.119
just being a guard bum. I
just went from set of orders from school

314
00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:59.799
to school, to deployment to deployment, and just stayed active the whole time.

315
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.000
And I loved it. I absolutely
loved it. As soon as I

316
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.480
graduated the Q course, I was
on a C one thirty down to down

317
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:15.519
to Bolivia for UH for for a
month. I had only I only got

318
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.839
to see, you know, the
different odias and the company a few times,

319
00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:25.519
and I saw these I saw these
guys on the dive team who were

320
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:30.359
just who were just better than everyone
else, and we're more than happy to

321
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:37.720
prove it. And I my senior
echo on my first ODA was going was

322
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.599
going to dive school because he wanted
to go to the to the dive team.

323
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.839
And and by by the second or
third time, you know, we

324
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.119
we had done some training together.
He looked at me and goes, hey,

325
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.240
you should go to digh school too, And so as I'd love to

326
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.720
go to dive school, he goes, yeah, it's it's easy. Just

327
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:57.279
you know, raise your hand.
There's always slots go to dive school.

328
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:02.720
So I'm getting ready to go down
to South America. And just like he

329
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:03.400
said, you know, all he
had to do was say you want to

330
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:07.400
go to dig school, No,
put you in a slot. So I

331
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.039
go down to South America. I
start training for die school before South America.

332
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:17.759
As soon as I get into South
America, I get an email back

333
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:22.960
to AKO again. I get an
AKO email saying that funding fell through and

334
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.599
don't worry about don't worry about dive
school. And so I said, okay.

335
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:34.640
So the next three weeks I went
on a very different training regime and

336
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:41.440
partying my ASSI and had a great
time. You know, we trained hard,

337
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.960
we partied hard, it was a
great first first experience. In fact,

338
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:52.160
that team I went down there with
had you know, their their Bravo

339
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.880
on their team. I'm you know, went to the unit before me,

340
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.359
their eighteen Delta on the team went
to the unit as a as a medic

341
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:07.200
before me. It was it was
a stacked team of great dudes that were

342
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:10.400
seasoned guys. You know, they
had all they had all been to Afghanistan

343
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.720
already and multiple trips and they'd all
have been on the team for like five,

344
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.960
six, seven years. So it
was a great, great first trip

345
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:22.559
learning I was the only echo on
the team, so uh, you know,

346
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.000
it was a great experience as a
new guy to have all the commo

347
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.119
to fall on me. It was
a real cool experience going to hotels and

348
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.680
setting up a you know satcom you
know PSC five and you know, shooting

349
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:41.839
out reports you know from a hotel
room in different cities in Bolivia, just

350
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.480
kind of a in civilian clothes as
as you're traveling around. So it just

351
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.880
just you know, definitely a cool
experience. And that part It's a couple

352
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:55.720
of days before die school is supposed
to start and I'm out of roadside cafe

353
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:02.599
in Bolivia and I get an email. It's an a tar Is notification saying,

354
00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:06.400
uh, giving me, you know, details of checking into die school.

355
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.799
So I went to the I went
to the warrant officer on the team

356
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.759
and I said, hey, this
is probably nothing, but I did get

357
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.079
this a Tar's notification. And he's
like, well, if you have an

358
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.200
a TAR slot, you're you're going
if you need to get on a plane

359
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.000
right now and go to Key West. I was both excited to hear that

360
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:32.039
and also, you know, it
like a getting punched in the gut,

361
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:37.519
going I, I'm not ready for
this. Let's hope, you know.

362
00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:41.440
Yeah, but there's a lot of
things you can do when you're twenty four

363
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.640
that that you can't do later added
life. So I, you know,

364
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.119
not to make these stories long,
but you know, just kind of you

365
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:56.240
know. I get in a a
a one way rental car and we drive,

366
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:59.359
like me and one other guy that
was going to go back with me

367
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:06.680
drive like nine hours straight and there's
these massive unrest going on because of the

368
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.359
elections just happened, and no one's
happy with the election, and there's roadblocks

369
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:18.039
everywhere. We don't our Spanish actually
wasn't too bad, but it wasn't enough

370
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:25.680
to be by ourselves negotiating roadblocks.
We just randomly gave people money that you

371
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:27.720
know. I just kept on giving
them money until they seemed to be less

372
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.720
angry with us, and they let
us go. We get to the airport

373
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:40.839
and we landed on a military base
dirt runway in the middle of the night,

374
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.079
unloaded and left. So I didn't
get my passport stamped when I get

375
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.880
to the When I get to the
airport, we're trying to load up,

376
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.559
and the guy was like, Hey, something's weird. You don't have a

377
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:57.640
stamp on your passport. How did
you get in the country? And I

378
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:03.279
remember the last thing Warren Officer told
me was, Hey, if you get

379
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.599
in any trouble, here's here's the
here's the here's the number to the embassy.

380
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:12.200
Called this guy, he's our fixer, and so I didn't give him

381
00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:15.799
an answer about how we got in
here. I just said, hey,

382
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.799
you should probably call this guy first. And the guy told me, he

383
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.039
goes, I don't care who that
guy is. How did you get in

384
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.440
on our country? And you can
go ahead and start looking at other flights

385
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.039
because you're not getting on this one. And I was like, you know,

386
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:34.799
okay that that sucks, but you
know, call this guy. He

387
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:38.200
walks away. Thirty seconds later,
he looks at me with disgust. He

388
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.400
just takes my passport and he stamps
it and he says, get out of

389
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.519
here. To this day, I
don't know who that guy was. I

390
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:48.680
don't know what he told him,
but you know, just that it was.

391
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:51.559
At the end of it, it
was a very cool, non combat

392
00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:56.039
first experience of of being a Green
Beret and just you know, doing things

393
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:03.559
that really is really unique to to
Green Rays. I end up, I

394
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:08.960
get a I fly right to Miami
and check into Digh School and proceed to

395
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:15.880
have the worst six weeks of my
life. Pull. The week was absolutely

396
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.480
horrible. Like you know, I
quit doing breath holds. I was not

397
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:25.160
ready for it. I was I
got dragged out of the pool you know,

398
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:30.799
almost every day and asked why why
I sucked so much? And I

399
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:36.000
just I remember calling my dad at
one point and saying, hey, Dad,

400
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:37.400
we have you know, the Q
course has been a lot, you

401
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:41.400
know, I just went on a
trip down south. Now I'm in now,

402
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.559
I'm in Diegh School. It's just
it's really tough right now. I

403
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:49.039
think I think I just need to
come home for a little bit. And

404
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:55.440
and but my dad is not the
the uh, the guy to to cry

405
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:00.319
on his shoulders. He's just a
very hard man. But but I also

406
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.559
never complained to my dad about anything, So I think my dad knew if

407
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.880
I was calling him to tell him
things were pretty tough right now, he

408
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:11.160
just said, dude, you gotta
do so. And I said, okay,

409
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:17.839
I'll I'll call you tomorrow and let
you know. And every day I

410
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.319
showed up to the pool and had
to fake motivation like I wanted to be

411
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:25.440
there when it was everything I didn't
want to do. And I never called

412
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:27.279
my dad back and told him that
I wasn't coming or was coming. My

413
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:32.799
dad said he figured that when I
didn't call back, he knew. And

414
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.279
again, my dad's just a hardcore
guy, so stock he's gonna call me

415
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:40.359
and ask what's wrong. That was
just the odd random conversation we had.

416
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:47.880
It was a fleeting moment of weakness. I'll come back to that story here

417
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.319
in a little bit, because I
tell him myself later in my career saying,

418
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.279
hey, this is the hardest thing
I've ever done. And I'll tell

419
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.799
you the one particular like time.
It was like the end of pool week

420
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:08.839
and you're just you know, you're
just physically exhausted. And they they put

421
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.359
us in and again, and part
of it was why it was so hard.

422
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.279
It's because I wasn't ready for it. So I mean, I'm not

423
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:20.240
saying it would have been easy otherwise, but I definitely didn't help myself out.

424
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.160
They put us in the pool and
they're gonna have us do these sprints.

425
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.480
And they said hey, and they
told us her, say, bring

426
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:31.000
bring two shirts to the pool this
day. And so at the very end

427
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:36.400
of the day they they said,
hey, get get one shirt, wet,

428
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:38.400
take your take your brown shirt off, put them in both your hands,

429
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.720
and that's what you're gonna swim in
to get to the other side of

430
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:46.559
the pool, these two soggy shirts. And they said pays to be a

431
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.359
winner. First one to the other
side of the pool gets to get out.

432
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.680
And so everyone, you know,
swam as hard as they could to

433
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:57.880
get to the side of the pool. And they didn't let anyone of the

434
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.039
pool. They're like, hey,
but that's not this round. They send

435
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:04.960
us back and forth, back and
forth, like fifteen times. No one

436
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.720
gets out of the pool, and
it sounds dramatic, but it's just true.

437
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.920
Like guys are getting fished out of
the pool because you know, they're

438
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:15.960
they're they're cramping up and they're giving
it. They're all and they're just And

439
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:21.039
I remember thinking, you know,
looking to the guy beside me on the

440
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:23.119
gunnal and we didn't say it,
but we both, you know, looked

441
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:27.920
at each other just you know,
said the sucks. You know that that

442
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:31.079
that look at another that empty look
at another guy's eyes. But he's he's

443
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.119
just giving it as all. Yea, And yeah, we've all we've all

444
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:40.440
been there. And I remember thinking
to myself, I got one more in

445
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:45.839
me, and if if they don't
get us out of the pool, I'm

446
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:47.640
quitting because I'll end up at the
bottom of this pool if they send me

447
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:52.279
again. So they send us again, I get to the other side of

448
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.640
the pool and I'm talking. I'm
I'm coaxing myself up. You know,

449
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.960
well, this is it's time.
It's time to quit. Time to quit

450
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:04.640
it. And me and that guy
looked at each other one more time and

451
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:08.000
we both kind of shake our heads
like this sucks, and and he goes,

452
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:13.159
eff it, I quit and gets
out of the pool. And I

453
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:17.679
remember looking at him getting on the
pool and thinking, you quitter. I

454
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:24.639
can't believe it's wrong with you know
that I was just as big as if

455
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:28.440
he want to beat me to it, I probably I probably wouldn't quit.

456
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.800
And uh, just like do you
remember watching him quit just disgusted me?

457
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.440
And Uh, I stayed in the
pool. We went back and forth or

458
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.599
six or seven times. But I
guess maybe he left me some of his

459
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:46.840
energy on on on the way out. Super glad I got die school out

460
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:52.960
out of the way early in my
career. Uh, like an insert joke

461
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:57.320
here, but like like bost divers, I'm a proud diver and really uh

462
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:02.440
really proud of that accomplishment. The
and it got me to work on the

463
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:07.280
best oder I ever worked with the
best group of guys. Honestly, I

464
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:14.840
ended up having one of my best
deployments in my military was a twentieth group

465
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:19.159
deployment with that dive team run on
the commandos that of Afghanistan were just,

466
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:22.719
you know, just want a group
of really good friends deployed together, have

467
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:28.480
the same mindset and just wanted to
get after it. To this day,

468
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:32.119
one of my one of my one
of my best experiences in the military and

469
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.239
at Die School is what it kind
of afforded me, that that possibility.

470
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:39.280
You know, it's interesting because I
want to paint sort of the picture for

471
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:45.239
people who may not understand earlier when
you're talking about going to die School or

472
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:47.199
you know, the chance to go
to Combat Diver school. You know,

473
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:52.760
you said the senior echo said,
they're always bullets available, there are always

474
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:58.880
thoughts open. And the reason for
that is because Combat Diver is such a

475
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:07.239
notoriously hard school that people don't sign
up for it in general. Like it

476
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.239
is. It's one of those schools
that somebody has to generally be really motivated

477
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:16.480
to go to because it is such
like a dick driver. I don't know

478
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:19.840
if I'd have gone back, I
don't know. I mean, I mean,

479
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.079
I mean, I thankful I didn't
have to make that decision. I'd

480
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:24.639
like to think that with a little
bit of rest and you know, I'd

481
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:30.320
have got back on there. I
was really lucky in uh in my career

482
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:37.159
to have not have recycled to not
We'll get to a little bit. There's

483
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.880
one thing I recycled, but but
SF didn't didn't hand that to me.

484
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.800
And and Die School with it.
I'm not saying the Q course was easy

485
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.760
by no means with the Q course
easy. The Q course had really tough

486
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:57.280
days in it. Uh but just
for just an absolute smoke session day in

487
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.280
day out, you know, running
red line and the whole time, Diegh

488
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:07.079
School with added doubt was the hardest
military school I went to. Yeah,

489
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.119
so talk to us about that,
that deployment that it led you into with

490
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:20.800
the Candac commandos. Oh yeah,
so we I had I had I'd been

491
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:27.840
selected, uh for for the unit. Actually, uh, I got selected

492
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.559
and I told him to, Hey, we're on the verge of a of

493
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:37.280
another deployment and I want to go
back to this. Uh well, I

494
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:42.679
should say my second time at selection, I get selected and and we're going,

495
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.840
uh, I want to do this
this deployment with with with with our

496
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.639
guys, this one last two are
off you will And I told him that,

497
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:52.360
and and they they were like,
absolutely, unit's not going anywhere.

498
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.880
Go you know, go go go
fire with your guys. I think they

499
00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:00.280
respected that. So I go to
So that was really cool in a weird

500
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:04.679
way, kind of being a made
man and and twentieth group as a guy

501
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:10.840
who already selected to go to the
unit and it it was such a great

502
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:17.480
mission. So we didn't have any
air assets dedicated to us, you know,

503
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.119
we didn't, but we got a
lot of aviation assets given to us

504
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:29.039
by the battlespace owner. And how
those deals usually worked was, of course

505
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:31.639
we're you know, you know,
we're uh. We had plenty of direct

506
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:36.679
action targets that we collected the intel
for and we you know, we uh,

507
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:38.599
here's a here's a blast from the
past if you remember, terms like

508
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:45.440
JPELL targets. So we had our
list of jpells to go after, but

509
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:49.400
most of them required to do it
properly, you know, aviation assets.

510
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:57.119
And the battlespace owner was interested in
giving us aviation assets. But the battlespace

511
00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:02.719
owner was actually a really a really
good and he also wanted to work out

512
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:09.079
of us and smartly, so he
would give us assets if we would do

513
00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:14.119
missions for him. And what he
wanted from us was to take our commandos

514
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:21.519
and do valley clearing operations for for
as conventional forces, which really was which

515
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.000
was a great opportunity you know,
really for us too, like and he's

516
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:29.519
absolutely right, like that's the commandos
should have been at the very ford edge

517
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:36.280
of those valley clearing operations, you
know, taking bullets that so Americans don't

518
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.760
have to it's it's it's their country, their motivated unit. They were more

519
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:45.039
than happy to do it. They
had a short shelf life. So if

520
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.239
it wasn't you know, if I
can't remember the exact hours, it's forty

521
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.639
eight or seventy two. And trust
me, they knew what the shelf life

522
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.199
was. It's even it's in their
charter and I want to say it's seventy

523
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.920
two. So if you know,
if seventy two hours is about to come

524
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.440
up, they'll let you know,
Hey, we're our our work's done here.

525
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.840
This is, this is, this
is as much as we're allowed to

526
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:10.880
suck and and and on more than
one occasion. For a unit that can't

527
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:16.639
logistically do anything on their own,
if they're on an operation of valclearing operation,

528
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:22.119
then longer than seventy two hours,
they'll they will find taxis to come

529
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:24.079
pick them up in the middle of
the woods. All of a sudden.

530
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:29.800
They're logistical masters and can find their
way back to Bates, but they can't

531
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.679
find their way to emission to save
their life. That's even I know I

532
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:37.639
just said they were they were a
great partner for us. But that's that

533
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.920
was a that was a reality of
them. I'm telling you, I feel

534
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:46.920
like, uh, you know,
the more experience I got in SF,

535
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.280
the more Robin Sage was real.
You know. I remember being Robin's age

536
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:57.119
going, I have to show up
and beg these you know, these fake

537
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.880
gs to let me in their camp
and to the fight with me like we're

538
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:07.440
in the real world. Were Americans
with with you know, with bombers and

539
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:09.840
suitcases full of money. No one's
you know, I don't have to.

540
00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:14.239
I don't have to beget anyone to
come fight with us. And there I

541
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:19.880
am in Afghanistan begging our commandos not
to leave us, going, I am

542
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.960
I and Robin Sage right now,
this is this is crazy, but sure

543
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:30.039
enough happen on more than one occasion. But those valid clearing operations were great.

544
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:35.000
Uh they did suck. I mean, everyone prefers to to get on

545
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:37.159
helicopter, hit a target in the
middle night and not miss ameloor workout.

546
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.360
They could be trying, you know, even even those are you know even

547
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.480
and they're still considered short duration missions
at three and four days. I'm sure

548
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:51.039
there's some conventional guy listening to me
winding about being out for three or four

549
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.440
days. But they, you know, when it was cold, it was

550
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:59.280
freezing cold. When it was hot, it was miserably hot, and they

551
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:04.480
would reserve the commander unit to go
down the worst parts of the valley.

552
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.960
Again, rightfully, so that's exactly
where we wanted to be. But you

553
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:13.280
know, we did those value clearing
operations. You know, if they teed

554
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.239
it up for us, and they
teed it up for us right then,

555
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.679
then they put us right in the
thick of sing in the thick of things.

556
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:23.800
Then we got to do a lot
of good work. That there's there's

557
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:30.159
a couple of really cool stories that
that actually come from that particular uh mission,

558
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:35.840
that deployment. We were the and
I don't I don't know who keeps

559
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:38.239
track of these stats. I remember
them telling me, but you know,

560
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:44.559
adding up our you know, the
the various kills you give us an odia

561
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.360
they and they you know, they
they give it your casts, you know

562
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:51.480
kills and your small arm skills,
and you know we were up in the

563
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:55.320
you know, high couple hundreds and
uh they said that we were the you

564
00:42:55.320 --> 00:43:00.480
know, the the leading ODIA in
country uh and kills, which really wouldn't

565
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:04.000
have been hard. It's not.
And although we were a really good ODIA,

566
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:07.079
it's not because we were amazing.
We we thought we were, but

567
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:10.400
they put us. They put us
in a good area with the commandos,

568
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:15.280
so we we we operated in all
of the east in two KL. I

569
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.519
used to be able to tell you
what in two kls did for I could

570
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:22.800
probably get most of the most of
the acronyms. And it was just a

571
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:27.880
hot spot at that time. So
we we had the we had the right

572
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:35.880
partner force and the hottest area of
the country. One mission was a fair

573
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.199
you know not it was a great
mission. It's not necessarily the one you

574
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:42.360
want to get woken up for.
Yeah, I told you that battalion commander

575
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.199
was. It was a great dude. He calls our our team leader and

576
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:49.920
our team sergeant into the office.
He was like, hey, I need

577
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.840
you guys, and uh and I
guess he's he's teared up, you know,

578
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:58.719
asking for this help. You know, my teams are it's like my

579
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.199
team sergeant Rixby, he goes,
what do you need? You know,

580
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:05.079
he's always giving us aircraft. He's
always been real real good to us.

581
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:07.639
He goes, what what you know? What what's wrong, boss, He

582
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:09.880
goes, My my my boys are
hemmed up. My boys are hemmed up

583
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:13.719
in a bad way. You know. We got uh, you know,

584
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:19.719
we got double digits dead and and
double digits wounded. Uh, and those

585
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.480
numbers are climbing if we don't if
we don't get someone there like right now,

586
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:28.559
and came back got the ODA said
hey, the you know, blades

587
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:34.679
are spinning. We got to get
there. We if I remember right,

588
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:38.519
this is called Operation Bulldog Bite.
We were going to insert to the south

589
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:43.039
of their location because they were still
in a firefights. They didn't want us

590
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.519
to insert there. We're gonna insert
south their location, and the rangers were

591
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:50.119
coming in. We're gonna insert to
the north, and we were gonna and

592
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:53.239
we were basically it was really gonna
we were supposed to meet him there together,

593
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:57.079
but everyone everyone knew it was gonna
be a race to to try to

594
00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:01.920
get to him first and and and
uh and help those guys out. Well

595
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:07.760
when we inserted, the Ranger forty
seven had mechanical failures and they and they

596
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:14.360
didn't insert, so it was it
was just us when we got there.

597
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:21.440
We got there right as a first
light was there. The eighth we got

598
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:23.280
there a little bit later, was
supposed to insert in darkness. It was

599
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:29.159
just first light. A C one
thirty got there early to try to make

600
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.000
sure that everything was going to be
kosher for us. And as soon as

601
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:37.519
AC one thirty got on station,
it started lighting off and it didn't stop

602
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:42.320
shooting. It was shooting why we
landed and when they and when the daylight,

603
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:46.480
when the forty seven took off,
it was still firing. And and

604
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:51.079
I remember looking at one of our
guys like and that weird. He's like,

605
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:54.400
what's that. He's like, I've
never seen an AC one thirty in

606
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.119
the daylight. He's like, yeah, that is that is kind of weird.

607
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.400
Come to find out. Uh,
and heck one of you guys may

608
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.880
know. But it had to go
up to like two or three star level

609
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:13.000
approval to keep the keep Specter flying
daylight that low. Yeah, agent targets

610
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:21.880
you remember, I was gonna say
that almost almost always AC Spector would be

611
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:24.920
like denied daylight offs because of flys
so low you can see it. And

612
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:29.320
they were worried that would have present
a target for man portables and stuff.

613
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:35.760
But to have a AC one thirty
during the day is exceptionally rare and like

614
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:39.599
and like you said, probably had
to be elevated because the the in country

615
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.480
commander, it's like the Air Force, they did not allow that at all.

616
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:50.760
Yeah, I'm telling you, it
was a weird sight seeing it,

617
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:52.239
you know. Yeah, you know, you get to hear it a lot,

618
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.280
you know, what's up there,
you know, on you know,

619
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:59.719
on multiple multiple nighttime operations, but
when you actually see it during the day,

620
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:01.800
just it's just stuck out. I'm
like, man, that's really weird.

621
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.280
And we confirmed, you know obviously
that you know, it got told

622
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:09.760
to us that they had to get
special approval to stay on station, and

623
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:15.760
it took us and of course we
get we get inserted a little bit,

624
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:19.880
a little bit further than we wanted
to be inserted. So it's gonna take

625
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:22.599
even long. It's gonna take all
day for us to get up there.

626
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:28.039
We get into you know, there's
a couple of villages between us, and

627
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.800
then we get into a little bit
of contact. But the right call was

628
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:34.599
made, like you know this,
you know, engaging it. Killing the

629
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:37.159
enemy right now isn't really our our
mission. Our mission is to get these

630
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:44.239
guys as fast as we can.
And again I'm I'm the I'm the only

631
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.920
commic guy on on this mission.
I was the only common guy for them

632
00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:54.519
for the most part during that deployment. And as we're traveling at night,

633
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:59.639
we know we should be getting close
to these guys. Uh. And it

634
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:01.639
goes back to again, I feel
like I'm in the Q course. Like

635
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.440
at the times you feel like the
Q course is so basic, and things

636
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:09.840
they tell you in the Q course
they do they come back to ring true

637
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:17.000
in operations. And I remember an
sut being said, being told that the

638
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.400
most And let me know if you
if you remember this, you know,

639
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:27.199
especially in small United tactics, what
is the most dangerous part of any mission?

640
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:30.039
When when you leave, when you
leave and come back from the wire,

641
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:34.320
you want to take a guess at
it. I mean, oftentimes it's

642
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:37.239
right as you clear the objective,
right, because everyone's tired and you're chilling

643
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:44.159
on security. What the seven dash
the seven dash eight answer for that will

644
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:49.039
be re entry of friendly lines.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, so

645
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.719
you're yeah, you're looking up with
friendly forces. Yeah, that's right,

646
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:58.519
re entry of friendly lines. And
I always thought that was uh, you

647
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:02.199
know, uh a little bit uh, a little bit over the top,

648
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.719
Like I mean, don't you The
most dangerous thing is, you know,

649
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.519
getting out here and you know,
and get it on an ambush line and

650
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:13.119
mix it up with the enemy.
But here I am at two am in

651
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.679
Afghanistan, and there is this,
you know, there's these young eleven bravos

652
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:22.079
that you know that are bearing their
brothers and watching their other brothers maybe you

653
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:27.519
know, slowly bleed out. And
there's these guys trumping through the woods trying

654
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:30.960
to link up with them, and
I cannot raise them on the radio.

655
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:37.280
And and I was walking point at
the time too, going well, this

656
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:39.440
is about fitting. You know,
it's my It's my fault. I guess

657
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:43.559
why we can't make commos? So
I guess I should be eating these rounds.

658
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.159
I did everything that I was supposed
to do before leaving, you know,

659
00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:50.840
I did you know, I you
know, I got their fills,

660
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.239
I got their frequencies. I did
radio checks with their guys in the ground.

661
00:49:54.920 --> 00:50:00.400
Why I couldn't make Commo at that
time is just is the is the

662
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:05.679
bane of every echoes existence. And
you know when when you needed Comma with

663
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:09.480
the most, I couldn't make Commo. And I just remember walking with my

664
00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:15.039
butthole pucker going up every step.
I am afraid these you know, these

665
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:21.280
these bushes are going to light up. We never made comma, we never

666
00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:27.880
made uh radio contact with them.
And luckily for me, uh they you

667
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.880
know, they they they they heard
things in the bushes. We lit up

668
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:32.000
with them, like you know,
they yelled from a dish, said,

669
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:35.920
hey, who is there? We
got we got to you know, speak

670
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:38.480
English, and they knew it was
us, and they knew that there was

671
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:42.719
an American force uh coming, you
know, to link up with them.

672
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:46.679
And luckily that got disseminated all the
way to to the outskirts. But I'll

673
00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:54.320
I'll never forget how, you know, just how how dangerous uh that something

674
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:59.920
that that really seems like the least
amount of dangerous thing that you would do,

675
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:01.320
like you know, there was really
there's no enemy at the time.

676
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:07.079
There's so much other dangerous stuff I've
done in my in my military career.

677
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:09.760
Yet that to me, when I
tell that story, I can still feel

678
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:14.159
the you know, the hair stick
up the back of my neck walk into

679
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:20.920
those woods, you know, wait
waiting to get lit up. But it's

680
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.320
nighttime, right, so yeah,
yeah, yess yeah, it's yeah,

681
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:29.360
it's nighttime. I have nods.
You know, I don't even know,

682
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:30.880
you know, if they got nods, or if you know, if all

683
00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:35.559
their guys you know, have nods, or if they're still rocking seven deltas

684
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:39.199
on a low loom night. Makes
them almost just as dangerous with them as

685
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:45.920
without them. I'll tell you this
this war story real quick, how they

686
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:49.440
even how they how they I'll rewind
it and tell you how they got into

687
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:53.159
this position, and what'll blow your
mind what we talked about after we met

688
00:51:53.239 --> 00:52:00.519
up with them. So it's really
a sad story about about the bureaucracy of

689
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:06.880
our military and the inability for people
to make decisions. This was one of

690
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:14.840
their very last valley clearing operations.
It's it had been a very quiet deployment

691
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:17.599
for those guys, and they just
hadn't seen a lot of action. So

692
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:22.400
they, you know, they they
started, in my mind, a little

693
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:27.039
bit to to lose respect for the
battlefield, you know. I mean,

694
00:52:27.039 --> 00:52:30.239
people don't understand that there's a lot
of lull to war. And yes,

695
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:34.519
we lost a lot of guys in
Afghanistan, but there's plenty of guys who

696
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:38.519
weren't deployed and never fired their gun
and they never saw anything bad. And

697
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:42.199
they just they woke up every day, went to bed every day, and

698
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:45.639
eventually went home. And it's not
a sexy story to tell your friends,

699
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:52.639
but that's the truth for really a
lot of soldiers in Afghanistan. These guys

700
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:59.840
hadn't seen much much combat at all. They come across this h this house,

701
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:06.079
and this house is completely full of
IDs, full of IDs, and

702
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:12.159
so the company commander says, hey, we're not going to touch this stuff.

703
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:15.280
There's way too much, none of
them. I don't feel that we're

704
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.440
comfident enough to move this stuff or
we should. Anyway, I'm just going

705
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:24.800
to call a strike on this house. So they get into a long haul

706
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:30.719
and they start the process of trying
to get someone to authorize dropping on this

707
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:35.320
house. No one wants to make
the call. The you know, the

708
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:37.920
battalion commander doesn't want to make the
call, the brigade commander, And in

709
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:42.039
fact, it's probably worse than that, not the drug out the story,

710
00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:45.639
but the you know, the oppso
didn't want to make the call, who

711
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:49.480
eventually made it to the exo and
eventually made it to the battalion commander.

712
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:53.119
Like all these thresholds and levels and
everyone just passing the buck up, passing

713
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:57.039
the buck up, passing the buck
up. Well, they've been there for

714
00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:02.639
like four hours, just waiting for
someone to give them any sort of guidance

715
00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:07.960
of what of what they should do. Well, it's human nature. I'd

716
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:12.079
probably do it too. But what
does Joe do after four hours being in

717
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:15.880
the hot sun, after not seeing
any apt Joe does what Joe does.

718
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:20.400
And and I say that, like
I said, I I'm not a robot.

719
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:28.280
I do the same things. It
allowed me to get up within very

720
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:36.760
close proximities and lob of volley of
RPGs and and uh and machine gun fire

721
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:43.199
and just absolutely lay waste of these
guys and they really didn't have a solid

722
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:46.679
fighting chance at it. They overwhelmed
them pretty quick and hurt them pretty bad,

723
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.679
uh, you know, and that's
when we got the call. So

724
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:53.480
the fact that at the end of
the day, it was just indecision on

725
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:58.880
anyone wanting and of course, as
you can uh, it's collateral damage.

726
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:04.679
Is the reason they I want to
destroy a building, Yeah, yeah,

727
00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:08.280
destroy that building or and there was
another building close, like fairly closed to

728
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:13.679
it, so they were concerned about
that building rather than being concerned for their

729
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:16.199
safety, and well, being of
our soldiers. They cared more about mud

730
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:21.280
buildings, and we send guys on
the body bags for it. It'll always

731
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.599
be wrong and that's how So that's
that's how we got there. Now I'll

732
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:29.199
get now, we'll fast forward.
We're here, we're talking to these guys.

733
00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:36.079
The we're gonna go, uh,
you know, we're gonna go up

734
00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:38.360
and get a little bit of shut
eye because we're they're gonna go come pick

735
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:44.320
them up in daylight the next day. And so we tell them and of

736
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:46.599
course they're still in the they're in
the valley, like this house is in

737
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:52.320
the valley. They're still in this
house or in this compound. And we

738
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.960
said, hey, we're going to
go up to that high ground over there

739
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:00.719
and and get the tactical advantage.
And I suggest you guys come with us,

740
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:07.559
and uh and even then they're like
no, like you guys got it

741
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:09.920
up there, Like you guys can
protect us from up there, right,

742
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:16.559
and like kind of like I don't
like what would be what would be a

743
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:20.679
better bet would just to be up
there with us, Like that's that's where

744
00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:24.760
you want to be, not down
here in this valley. But but yeah,

745
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:27.840
I'm not gonna be too hard on
them, you know. I mean

746
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:31.800
obviously they they were dealing with a
lot, beat down pretty hard, and

747
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:36.400
maybe they just needed him. They
were more than willing to have someone come

748
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:39.639
save him and help him out.
And that's that. That and I'll tell

749
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:43.000
you one more after this, but
you know, we'll let you guys ask

750
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:46.079
questions or talk about it a little
more. Out was one of our better

751
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:51.199
missions. Sorry, but I don't
mean that you guys lost their lives.

752
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:54.199
Yeah, trying to think of a
good word to use where I say,

753
00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:59.679
you know, better missions one of
the more significant actions. And you guys

754
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:02.559
went in there and helped out fellow
American soldiers. That makes it meaningful,

755
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:08.679
that's right. Yeah, I mean, the the the feeling. It's only

756
00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:15.239
happened probably two more times in my
career. Like, you know, to

757
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:21.639
get there and face to face and
strangers, just absolute strangers look at you

758
00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:24.079
and want to hug you because you
because you showed up. And they they

759
00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:30.000
they, you know, they needed
someone with guns to show up, and

760
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:31.519
you know, they they're just you
know, they they're sitting there waiting,

761
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:36.039
waiting to die, and we're I
mean, if they knew us, we

762
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.280
were as big as jackasses. As
as as anyone else, you know,

763
00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:43.360
like we're we're we're you know,
we're definitely not at times, and he

764
00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:45.079
put up on a pedestal. But
at the end of the day, hey,

765
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:49.639
would the green rays show up and
the guys with beards show up like

766
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:54.800
you're expected, you know, to
to to to fill that role, and

767
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.880
we were more than happy to fill
that role for him, and we're more

768
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:01.280
than happy to protect those guys.
Get those guys out of there. I'd

769
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:06.159
of curiosity. You're the size of
that element that you guys went in to

770
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:14.159
relieve or solid I want to say, in the in the twenties. And

771
00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:19.039
then do you do you recall like
what the uh was it? Was it

772
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:23.000
a captain? Was it like a
a pl or a second or a lieutenant?

773
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:29.760
I know I'd have to we there's
there's I don't know if a few

774
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:34.039
guys have one like this, I
would need a lifeline and our medic.

775
00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:39.280
Mark Demayo remembers everything. Yeah,
everything. I could call Mark right now.

776
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:42.800
He'll tell you exactly how many guys
are there, the rake of that

777
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:47.039
dude and the area we were operating
again. Yeah, I'm just curious if

778
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:52.679
like the the officer like the ground
force commander was one making the call not

779
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:57.679
to like evac with you guys up
the up the hill, or if if

780
00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:00.960
he was getting from higher that knows, like stay in place until we resolve

781
00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:05.599
what we're gonna do with this these
I E. D s. But I

782
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:07.400
just I just remember that being,
you know, the answer to the to

783
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:13.480
the conversation. Obviously the team sergeant
had that had that conversation with whoever is

784
00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:15.400
in charge, and yeah, and
may being the como guy, I was

785
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:21.360
probably right next to the commanders sitting
up sitter reps. Yeah, And so

786
00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:23.960
was there something else with that you
wanted to talk about how that operation wound

787
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:28.360
down or if it sounded like maybe
there was something else you wanted to say

788
00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:32.480
about it. No, not about
that. When I'll talk about one more

789
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:36.320
that's you know, that's kind of
similar happened to the same trip. But

790
00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:40.800
I'll tell you one of the weirdest
things, one of the weirdest things that

791
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:45.400
ever happened, was at the end
of that operation. And by the time

792
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:49.920
we actually got helos in there was
actually it was actually at nighttime, so

793
00:59:49.960 --> 00:59:52.960
we actually stayed you know, all
day during the day, got all the

794
00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:59.159
wounded out and whoever could walk to
this next LZ. We were all going

795
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:04.079
to walk that to that HLZ and
get out of there with a under with

796
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:12.079
a forty seven. So it's nighttime, we're we're in Paz posture and our

797
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.639
interpreter comes up to me and goes, hey, one of the guys found

798
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:22.960
a goat and he really wants to
keep it. And I, in this

799
01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:27.679
reaction, was like, no,
you can't bring a goat on a forty

800
01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:30.400
seven, but you know, I
don't know. Another party was like,

801
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:35.800
you know what, sure, yeah, he can have the goat. So

802
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:39.000
I, for whatever reason, authorized
this guy to have a goat on the

803
01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:44.320
forty seven. And and he's just
holding this goat the whole time. He's

804
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:50.960
holding it, and we're we're on
this like steep ledge. So here on

805
01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:54.000
this the top of this plateau's where
it's gonna land, and we're at the

806
01:00:54.119 --> 01:01:00.119
very edge of this really steep ledge. So when the forty seven comes and

807
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:04.559
tailgate this way, I look at
him and I told the interpreter, hey,

808
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:09.440
hold onto that goat tight. We're
we're getting ready to go, and

809
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:15.840
and I'm just watching them, Uh, I'm just watching with nods and it

810
01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:21.920
looks like he does this and then
just throws the goat off off the ledge

811
01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:28.159
to its little goat death. And
I'm like, those they're so weird.

812
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:31.079
Come you out. Afghans just do
weird things, you know, just shaking

813
01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:35.360
my head, like I thought you
wanted that goat. Why would you throw

814
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:39.760
that goat off? And so this, this this question is is bottling my

815
01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:44.719
boggling my mind the whole ride over. So as soon as the wheels laying

816
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:47.960
down and and uh and Jelalabad and
we can get away from the road to

817
01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:52.679
wash, I go grab the interpreter. I'm like, hey, why did

818
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:54.599
he kill Why did he kill that
goat? I thought he wanted that goat?

819
01:01:55.119 --> 01:02:01.480
And uh he said, And apparently
he says, the the forty seven

820
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:07.760
scared the goat and the goat back
legs launched off of his chest and he

821
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:10.719
tried to grab it. But from
my angle, it looked like the threw

822
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:15.880
the three the goat off, So
the poor goat jumped to its death.

823
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:20.360
But it was the weirdest thing in
the world to witness, not not knowing

824
01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:24.000
what's going on. And I really
feel like that sums up my experience.

825
01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:31.760
I mean, honestly, you're lucky
it was just one goat, because that

826
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:36.760
could have started if there had been
like a flock or herd of goats out

827
01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.440
there whatever it is, like everybody
would have wanted a goat, and you

828
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:47.800
had started a horrible, horrible precedence
of them based probably stealing goats and taking

829
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:52.079
them on the forty seven. And
I'm sure I'm sure that would have been

830
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:55.960
a theater wide email at some point. Pretty soon you're up to donkey.

831
01:02:57.039 --> 01:03:00.599
Yeah you would. You would have
been been the doctor Doolittle of Afghanistan.

832
01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:07.920
Uh, shepherd and goats around on
forty seven the uh that that same trip,

833
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:14.360
I'm into I'm in civilian clothes,
I'm getting ready to go on the

834
01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:19.679
ring route, and I have to
go down to Bogram. I don't even

835
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:22.480
either for op fund or or for
Crypto. There's some reason I had to

836
01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:28.000
go down to Bogram. So I'm
into Alla Bad. I'm in jay Bad

837
01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:34.159
waiting for the ring flight and this
like this E five or E six guy

838
01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:37.840
comes up to me and goes,
h and me, there's another guy with

839
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.519
me on my team. Can't remember
who who was with me, but examthingly

840
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:46.039
goes, hey, uh, you
guys special forces and I mean, I'm

841
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:50.000
we're in civilian clothes. I mean, could have been a contractor, but

842
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:53.679
you know, lucky guess. I'm
like, uh yeah, we're special forces.

843
01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:58.280
And he's like, hey, I've
been looking for you, guys.

844
01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:00.920
I've been I've been trying to call
you guys, been trying to email you

845
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:02.920
guys. I'm really trying to get
a hold of you guys. I'm really

846
01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:08.679
glad I got to see you.
And I'm thinking, what what email are

847
01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:14.639
you using? Phone? Like how
to Like this whole thing is starting out

848
01:04:14.679 --> 01:04:17.360
weird already. And then he gets
like, you know, you know,

849
01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:21.079
real emotional, and he's like,
hey, man, I'm we're out at

850
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:24.400
Cotton the Jill. He goes,
it's uh, it's you know, the

851
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:28.039
next province over. It's a really
small base. He goes, we're just

852
01:04:28.039 --> 01:04:30.440
waiting to die. He goes,
weird, there's nothing we can do about

853
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.960
it. We're just waiting to die. I you know, I have to

854
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.400
sit there and tell my guys that
they're going to be okay. You know,

855
01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:43.199
help is coming. You know,
it's not it's it's not that bad.

856
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:45.719
When I know it's that bad,
and I'm like, man, that

857
01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:49.159
is that's a horrible story. I
was like, let get give give me

858
01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:55.239
a give me a red line number, and well we'll see what we can

859
01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:58.400
do, okay, And he was
like all right, and so he leaves.

860
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:02.199
I cancel my ring flight trip and
I go back to to the to

861
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:04.559
the team house, you know,
and I go to the you know,

862
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:06.440
the team leader on the team sergeant. I'm like, hey, like,

863
01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:10.079
you know, tell them the same
story. I was like, you MND

864
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:13.000
have to look into this, and
I'm like, no, it sounds sounds

865
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:16.039
like something you should look into.
And again, that's what's really cool and

866
01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:18.960
that will always miss about, you
know, being a being a green Bray

867
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:24.880
is you know, the the the
autonomy to do whatever you want. It's

868
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:28.840
it's a lot of work, unfortunately, to collect your own intel and to

869
01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:31.000
you know, create your own con
opts, you know, execute your own

870
01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:34.840
missions with only twelve guys and a
partner force. But it's but it's but

871
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:39.280
it's all worth it at times when
you get to to do things like this,

872
01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:43.079
and so I call I call the
guys up. I talked to their

873
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:46.119
first sergeant. It's a company size
element out there, common to Jill and

874
01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:49.239
without trying to throw that guy under
the bus trying to feel out what's going

875
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:53.679
on, and the first sarm was
like, yeah, it's pretty bad out

876
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:57.199
here. I can can you guys
come out here? And I was like,

877
01:05:57.400 --> 01:06:00.840
okay, we'll come out and look. And so me and my team

878
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:03.280
sergeant get on a black Hawk.
Can we fly out there to Common and

879
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:08.199
Jill to see what's going on?
And it's a gosh, I wish I

880
01:06:08.199 --> 01:06:11.239
could remember the state. I want
to say. It's like an Illinois National

881
01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:15.159
Guard unit out there, and they
start telling me everything that's wrong, and

882
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:20.000
I remember thinking myself, Ah,
they're they're screwing this up somehow, like

883
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:23.880
they're you know, they're they're they're
being cowards, they're you know, this

884
01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:27.199
is what happens, or you're not
aggressive towards the enemy, and uh,

885
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:30.960
you know obviously it was like deep
in the back of my in my mind,

886
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:33.480
but yeah I thought it. And
so I'm listening to these guys stories

887
01:06:34.519 --> 01:06:38.760
and I'm and so I'm like,
so that's so you know the you know,

888
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:41.360
the point of origin where it's always
coming from. They're like, well,

889
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:45.079
there there's only three points of origin. I said, all right,

890
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.920
we'll send out an SR team and
set up on all three ports ports of

891
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:53.679
origin. There's there's nine, ten, twelve guys. I know you're a

892
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:58.480
company, but that's that's easily doable. They're like, I can't do that.

893
01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:02.079
We can't go out and I'm going
to screw up the number a little

894
01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:06.400
bit, but we can't go out
with less than twelve people on a patrol.

895
01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:11.440
He goes, And so with twelve
people on a patrol, if I'm

896
01:07:11.480 --> 01:07:15.920
to go, put three people,
so you know, on on those points

897
01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:18.679
of origin, three teams of those
points of origin. That's thirty six people

898
01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:23.960
right there. That already puts a
set, you know, at at full

899
01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:28.000
strength for running operations, because that
means half the guys are sleeping while the

900
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:30.639
other half are out and as soon
as those guys come back, those guys

901
01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:34.320
go go go out on operations.
And the only thing we've done is run

902
01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:39.440
twenty four hour opts on three different
three different point of origins and we're not

903
01:07:39.559 --> 01:07:43.480
even know, we're not even living, we're not doing like we're not like

904
01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:47.159
you can't run operations like that.
I'm like, I was like, twelve

905
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:53.400
guys to leave these points of these
poos if you will are like twelve hundred

906
01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:57.239
meters away, like they're not that
far, like you have to twelve guys

907
01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:05.360
to go a click outside the wires
like at absolutely and just they couldn't.

908
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:10.719
They couldn't drive, They couldn't drive
down to the next village which was only

909
01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:15.560
four or five hundred meters outside their
gate without getting completely riddled and have to

910
01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:19.920
turn back around. They couldn't get
air support. They asked for guys to

911
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:26.359
do valley clearing operations, and just
the more you know, I sat there

912
01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:30.239
with those guys, the more the
first sergeant again he was a National Guard

913
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:34.119
infantry first sergeant. He was a
good dude. He had he was you

914
01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:36.560
know, he was just a solid
guy. He had a lot of answers

915
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:39.920
and a lot of things he tried. But of the day, they just

916
01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:45.039
weren't capable of solving this problem.
And so we we went back and we

917
01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:53.840
did something that we rarely rarely do. We put the I'm going to forget

918
01:08:53.920 --> 01:09:00.439
words now, but the Kandak was
broken up into three elements. Like Kandak

919
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:03.479
is already a battalion, so whatever
companies, yeah, sorry, companies.

920
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:08.840
So they're broken up into three companies
and we were going to bring two companies

921
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:14.760
of command endows to clear this valley, which is which which we've never done

922
01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:17.880
because you know, they're on a
red, orange, and green training cycle,

923
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.720
so they're always in third. So
to bring two companies forward was a

924
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:28.840
big deal. These soda headquarters gave
us a bunch of pushback, and they're

925
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:30.840
like, I don't know what you
guys are talking about. We've asked,

926
01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:34.880
you know, we've we've put sign
birds around there, We've asked our human

927
01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:40.840
mentors like we're not getting anything in
that area, Like they're asking us to

928
01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:44.239
please go do something else, and
they're like, no, we've been on

929
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:46.840
the ground. These guys are hurting, like this valley needs to be cleared.

930
01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:54.239
We we set off of what we
called Operation rock Star. That was

931
01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:59.920
back in the day when odias could
still name their own naming conventions before people

932
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:06.239
probably uh uh took uh took some
some some free speech liberties within their operations.

933
01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:15.039
Operation Penthouse Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And I love it and everyone

934
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:18.319
got behind it, like all the
uh the aviation support called all the hlzs

935
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:24.000
like Ringo and and like all and
uh and and you know, HLZ bon

936
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:30.279
Jovi and everything. It was we
inserted that night and the Hilos. It

937
01:10:30.319 --> 01:10:38.800
was it was a long valley and
the the uh, the cop was at

938
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:42.239
the very base of the valley,
so we were going to insert at the

939
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:45.840
very northern part and then kind of
like a hammer and anvil operation. So

940
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:49.199
so the so the base only had
to basically be the anvil, love it,

941
01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:55.159
and we would push them all down
all down the valley, or at

942
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:59.720
least contain them in the valley.
We we get uh, we come into

943
01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:02.960
fire are as heavy fire as soon
as as soon as we as soon as

944
01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:08.279
we land and uh, and we're
thinking and the soda didn't even want to

945
01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:13.239
see you here. We are taking
massive you know, RpK fire from PKM

946
01:11:13.319 --> 01:11:15.399
fire from the from the mountain sides. And you told us there was no

947
01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:19.640
one here. And that was just
a bunch a couple, uh, basically

948
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:24.720
a couple of low level crooks lobbing
RPGs in the base every now and again.

949
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:32.680
The our team leader immediately called the
called casts. That's a whole another

950
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:36.119
story, but I'll touch it on
it for just a second. At the

951
01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:42.600
time, you had to have battalion
level approval to call casts. We had

952
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:46.399
a great team leader who knew the
rules. And there is a caveat to

953
01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:51.560
that during the infill of an operation, when they know you're vulnerable, you

954
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:57.239
do not have to call battalion for
approval, and you could immediately call cast

955
01:11:57.279 --> 01:12:00.279
from the ground. That's that's exactly
what he did. If you wanted that,

956
01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:04.279
we'd had a bunch of shot up
birds that that night, So he

957
01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:11.520
does that, we quill, we
quell that, and there's just these pockets

958
01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:15.520
as as we move, pockets and
pockets and pockets, and most of them

959
01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:18.479
were really from from the sides of
the mountain. So it wasn't a whole

960
01:12:18.479 --> 01:12:23.239
lot of like a close, you
know, personal type combat, but the

961
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:27.039
type of combat that is, it's
great, and it's great for numbers because

962
01:12:27.039 --> 01:12:30.520
really just by you being in the
valley is what stirs them up, you

963
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:33.800
know, on on these on these
mountain sides, and then just air support

964
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:40.119
comes in and crushes them. Well, the very first one that we called

965
01:12:40.119 --> 01:12:44.600
air support on was way up there, and I wasn't on it, but

966
01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:48.720
we asked a couple of guys to
go up there and do a BDA on

967
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:51.880
on that, and it took them
hours to crawl up this mountain to get

968
01:12:51.920 --> 01:12:56.920
to that BDA side. But when
they did, what we found we're guys

969
01:12:56.960 --> 01:13:01.560
and Acus and there were foreign fighters, holy shit, and we found him

970
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:06.159
all through the valley. Long story
short. By the time we get done

971
01:13:06.199 --> 01:13:10.279
with this valley and get home,
the guys who didn't want us even going

972
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:14.159
on the mission were giving us all
sorts of kudos and praises for one of

973
01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:17.880
the one of the you know,
the biggest noble operations you know that that

974
01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:24.479
we took on, and they didn't
even want us to go. Our our

975
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:30.920
captain as soon as we get home, gets home, gets gets uh,

976
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:39.840
We're don't want to like temporarily fired
or we'll see if he's fired because the

977
01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:45.279
sea desoute of Commander wanted him on
his on the carpet like now because he

978
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:50.920
heard that he didn't use the right
protocol for calling in cass and he called

979
01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:56.399
in cast without a Italian level approval
and he sat there in Bogram for like

980
01:13:56.560 --> 01:14:00.920
a week and then he sees to
see just out of Commander tells the story,

981
01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:05.159
goes, oh, I didn't know
it was during in phil You're good

982
01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:12.439
and sends them back to the team
while fortunately for us, while we're running

983
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.560
them up for another solid a week
with without our team leader actually had going

984
01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:20.039
on. I'm going on some great
missions, but they didn't deserve that.

985
01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:27.039
And that and again that that that
deployment was really like one of the spur

986
01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:30.680
you know, the moments that truly
spurred me to say, as and as

987
01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:32.640
great as that deployment was, like
you know, we got to save like

988
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:36.479
those guys and we got back to
their camp, they all gave us the

989
01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:40.800
biggest hug and they're like, man, thank you for saving our lives.

990
01:14:41.079 --> 01:14:45.640
We don't think we were going home
without you, Like you really feel like

991
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:50.920
you did something worthwhile. But there
was a reoccurring theme that deployment, which

992
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:59.279
was this conops had gotten crazy to
twenty and thirty pages. It was getting

993
01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:02.760
increased harder to fight. You feel
like you're fighting the enemy and the soda

994
01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:06.800
fan see just soda trying to get
out the door. If the enemy could

995
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:11.920
move as long as the enemy moved
every night, then he was moving faster

996
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:15.960
than than than we could keep up
with. Because that conupt that was approved

997
01:15:15.119 --> 01:15:21.800
was was for this location, it
got it got really disheartening. I mean,

998
01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:28.520
what a ridiculous we have, What
a ridiculous situation that you have soldiers

999
01:15:28.600 --> 01:15:30.720
on the ground there who are telling
you, hey, we're getting hit every

1000
01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:32.800
night, but higher is saying,
well, we don't have it on sickets,

1001
01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:40.640
so I guess it's not happening.
It though, the whole thing at

1002
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:45.880
a at a battalion and higher level, you know, not not just at

1003
01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:50.960
and within SF and within the military
really just kind of to start to discuss

1004
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:54.359
me, you know, and if
we weren't. There was such a solid

1005
01:15:54.399 --> 01:15:58.279
team of good dudes who were just
willing to do whatever it took to get

1006
01:15:58.279 --> 01:16:00.720
out the wire. I think really
have a good attitude generally speaking. They're

1007
01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:03.520
like, okay, fine, you
want twenty pages, I'll make you.

1008
01:16:03.560 --> 01:16:05.399
I'll get if that's what it takes
you out of the wire, I'll give

1009
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:09.960
you twenty pages. If you want
thirty pages, then we'll get really efficient

1010
01:16:10.039 --> 01:16:13.680
at writing thirty pages and we'll get
out the wire. They were, you

1011
01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:15.880
know, they were just a really
good team when it came to that that

1012
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:19.720
really could have crushed you know,
other teams and did and it did.

1013
01:16:20.079 --> 01:16:26.640
What did crush? Do you remember? Roughly? Yeah? Oh nine,

1014
01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:30.279
o nine, this is about my
Crystal years. Yeah, because I remember

1015
01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:39.279
talking to two down ten Yeah,
yeah, I remember talking to UH an

1016
01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:44.680
SF soldier sometime in like in the
O eight to oh nine time frame,

1017
01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:46.920
and he said that if they were
on target and they fired their weapon,

1018
01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:49.920
there would be a fifth they had
to fill out of fifteen six das six

1019
01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:58.199
like that. Then it just got
so ridiculous for a while. Yeah,

1020
01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:02.680
And and I don't I don't mind
if the war warrants that, if we're

1021
01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:08.840
making results and we just don't need
American cowboys, you know, going on

1022
01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:12.920
target just to spike the football every
night. I did that, you know,

1023
01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:16.720
and as and as a younger soldier, that's you know, I would

1024
01:17:16.760 --> 01:17:18.960
I would have never said that,
and I'd be like, as long as

1025
01:17:18.960 --> 01:17:23.680
we're here, we need to be
out on target. Yeah. I did

1026
01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:27.479
get a little bit older and wiser, but we weren't there yet. And

1027
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:34.199
I think the biggest problem that I
saw was ground guys were reporting ground truth.

1028
01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:40.000
I sought first hand that those reports. We had these like green,

1029
01:17:40.119 --> 01:17:45.079
yellow and red reports about how they're
doing planning wise, how they're doing logistically,

1030
01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:48.520
how they're how you know, how
their how their training is going.

1031
01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:54.039
And we generally gave him yellows and
reds across the board. Yet when you

1032
01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:58.560
see a polished product later up at
a sea just soda level, looking like

1033
01:17:58.600 --> 01:18:01.159
it's you know, like everything,
Rosie, that's not what we say,

1034
01:18:01.520 --> 01:18:10.439
right, it's always And not to
disparage military intelligence because because there are a

1035
01:18:10.439 --> 01:18:13.119
lot of two shops, are a
lot of humanity, Like there's a lot

1036
01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:15.800
of good work in the intel,
but there's also a lot of bureaucracy,

1037
01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:21.039
bureaucracy there where when guys like like
you were talking about these guys, but

1038
01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:26.119
when guys are on the ground are
reporting what's going on, and then you

1039
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:30.880
have you know, two shops,
you know, intel shops going no,

1040
01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:33.359
we don't have any intelligence and supports
s's like, well, there's your fucking

1041
01:18:33.399 --> 01:18:39.760
intelligence, Like why do you think
your product, superseds what these guys on

1042
01:18:39.800 --> 01:18:44.119
the ground are telling you hey,
And that's that's part of unit history right

1043
01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:47.279
there, like we we had,
we've there's been a disconnect for a while.

1044
01:18:47.359 --> 01:18:50.600
You can go all the way back
to well, I'll get close but

1045
01:18:51.800 --> 01:18:57.560
Operation Anaconda and two thousand and three
someone helped me out on that. But

1046
01:18:57.600 --> 01:19:04.079
it's gotten close to you early war
where you know, these ground units are

1047
01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:11.279
are saying, hey, there's a
major a collection of enemy personnel in this

1048
01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:15.359
area, and in higher ups going
nope, we sent over as the is

1049
01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:19.760
SR over there, didn't see anything
and go no, they're there and say

1050
01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:24.760
I'm nope. We sent ISSR over
again, there's nothing there. And then

1051
01:19:24.800 --> 01:19:28.279
it you know, it took you
know, unit AFO troops to go to

1052
01:19:28.319 --> 01:19:30.960
go up there in twos and threes
and live on the side of a mountain

1053
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:35.319
for a few days ago. Holy
crap, this place is crawling with people.

1054
01:19:36.039 --> 01:19:40.479
And even then like them kind of
be like, whoa, we don't

1055
01:19:40.479 --> 01:19:45.000
really see it on is SR.
That's one of the reasons Operation Anaconda was

1056
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:50.720
such a debacle. Super over reliant
on on ISR and not got ground.

1057
01:19:51.199 --> 01:19:55.920
We we jumped forward a little bit. You had talked about that before this

1058
01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:59.640
deployment. You would also you'd gone
to selection beforehand. Can you talk to

1059
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:02.520
us a little bit about when the
idea of going to trying out for the

1060
01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:10.119
unit came about into your mind and
and then like going to selection, Uh

1061
01:20:10.359 --> 01:20:12.800
no, because I failed selection the
first time. I don't talk about my

1062
01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:26.479
failures. Uh The h going to
selection the the first time goes goes back

1063
01:20:26.520 --> 01:20:30.880
to the you know, the adage
of I didn't want to I didn't want

1064
01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:34.279
to be done with my military career, not that I was thinking of retiring

1065
01:20:34.359 --> 01:20:38.520
or being done at any time.
Reill soon at that point. But at

1066
01:20:38.520 --> 01:20:40.760
this point in my career, I
felt like, you know, I went

1067
01:20:40.800 --> 01:20:44.279
into the military, you know,
check, I you know, I became

1068
01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:47.199
a Green Beret because you know,
you know, being in the regular military

1069
01:20:47.359 --> 01:20:50.520
was wasn't enough. And then I
was like, hey, there was a

1070
01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:54.960
small group of guys within SF that
that that I thought were even better.

1071
01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:59.680
And going to a dive team,
check like you know, I can.

1072
01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:04.239
I continued to push myself and and
you know, and and and make it.

1073
01:21:04.760 --> 01:21:06.840
Uh, you know, I wanted
to go to war real bad.

1074
01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:10.119
I went to war to war several
times, and I felt like I was

1075
01:21:10.159 --> 01:21:13.439
really good at it, you know, you know, check like I'm I'm

1076
01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:17.640
I'm continuing to get to look for
challenges, meet him and and you know,

1077
01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:21.000
there's a couple of things going on. One I wanted to see how

1078
01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:26.920
how far I could go. I
didn't think I was the best guy on

1079
01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:29.359
my team. And that's why,
like, you know, I needed to

1080
01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:33.000
go to selection because I gotta because
I'm you can't you can't soar with with

1081
01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:35.359
eagles when you're hanging around Buzzer.
It's like it was it was it was

1082
01:21:35.439 --> 01:21:41.159
nothing like that. And in fact, I was probably the third best guy

1083
01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:45.800
on my team. I wasn't even
the best guy on my oda, uh

1084
01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:51.000
and but I was the only guy
that went to selection and I did.

1085
01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:55.560
I never told anyone this, but
I did get tired of hearing a lot

1086
01:21:55.560 --> 01:22:01.199
of people train up for selection and
going to sniper school, you know,

1087
01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:09.600
and going to this school and you
know, uh like and always like collecting

1088
01:22:09.640 --> 01:22:14.039
this, this this perfect packet to
go to selection with because they're because they're

1089
01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:18.039
going to go to KAG but they
they forgot the most important part of the

1090
01:22:18.079 --> 01:22:24.199
process, which was going to selection. And so it's had a lot of

1091
01:22:24.239 --> 01:22:29.720
people talk about it, but that
never do it. And so there's a

1092
01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:35.359
lot of and I knew even before
that deployment handwriting was on the wall deployments

1093
01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:39.000
are going to go away. Iraq
was already starting to go away at that

1094
01:22:39.039 --> 01:22:42.640
time. You know, there were
rumors of you know, of of Afghanistan

1095
01:22:42.800 --> 01:22:46.960
combat operations beginning to get question and
put into halt. And I wasn't done

1096
01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:51.439
deploying, and I knew I could
go to one other place and and hopefully,

1097
01:22:51.720 --> 01:22:55.800
you know, continue to deploy and
maybe even deploy the rest of my

1098
01:22:55.880 --> 01:22:59.720
career, so you kind of take
that that whole you know, that whole

1099
01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:02.079
mound of evidence, and that's what
that's what drove me to go to selection.

1100
01:23:03.680 --> 01:23:10.720
So took two shots, which was
not abnormal at all. Right,

1101
01:23:10.760 --> 01:23:13.920
In fact, I don't like I
like calling the first one a WRECKI so

1102
01:23:14.319 --> 01:23:17.960
the one, the first one was
a wrecky and I made it really far,

1103
01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:20.760
like I made it like the only
thing I didn't do was the forty

1104
01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:24.800
miler. And it was definitely one
of those things where you show up,

1105
01:23:24.960 --> 01:23:29.600
you know, and even though you
know as an odia, you don't have

1106
01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:31.880
this like, yeah, I never
felt this weird. Oh we're just twentieth

1107
01:23:31.880 --> 01:23:34.439
group, you know, like our
odias always thought, you know, I

1108
01:23:34.439 --> 01:23:41.439
had a had had nothing, but
un knew they were good and if you

1109
01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:43.399
questioned it, were more than willing
to prove it to you. So I

1110
01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:46.239
never really had this in my career, this oh, I'm just twentieth group

1111
01:23:47.199 --> 01:23:51.039
until I showed up to selection,
and I don't know, it's just a

1112
01:23:51.039 --> 01:23:57.760
bunch of really big guys and you
know, guys telling all these crazy stories

1113
01:23:57.800 --> 01:24:00.279
and like, I don't know,
maybe you know, maybe maybe I am

1114
01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:03.760
out of out of my league a
little bit and then just slowly, you

1115
01:24:03.760 --> 01:24:06.159
know, the days go by,
and the days go by, and the

1116
01:24:06.199 --> 01:24:11.000
class gets smaller and smaller, and
and and you're still here and and all

1117
01:24:11.039 --> 01:24:15.000
those big loud mouth guys, uh, you know, didn't make time standard

1118
01:24:15.039 --> 01:24:18.119
this day and that day, and
and really by by the end of it,

1119
01:24:18.159 --> 01:24:23.399
you're it's probably a dramatic way to
say it, but you kind of

1120
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:25.880
know, you know how in three
hundred, like they get to the the

1121
01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:28.399
end of it and they're like,
we actually might win this thing. You

1122
01:24:28.439 --> 01:24:30.800
know, they kind of thought it
was a suicide mission and then they think

1123
01:24:30.840 --> 01:24:33.399
they actually could pull it off.
It's kind of like how I started the

1124
01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:38.199
field. Actually, I you know, I'm looking at everyone around me and

1125
01:24:38.399 --> 01:24:43.439
I'm just as good as as as
anyone here. I can I can make

1126
01:24:43.479 --> 01:24:46.279
this thing. And as soon as
I bottles of the time, I started

1127
01:24:46.319 --> 01:24:53.000
feeling like that I got cut and
which was the very end of it.

1128
01:24:53.479 --> 01:25:01.399
And I remember going to the I
won't talk about the well, we'll just

1129
01:25:01.479 --> 01:25:04.600
I got We'll just say this.
I got interviewed at at at the end,

1130
01:25:04.920 --> 01:25:11.239
and uh, the interviewer was like, you know, I'm just just

1131
01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:14.399
not im not gonna talk about it. Did did you. Did you get

1132
01:25:14.479 --> 01:25:18.279
good feedback ish in terms of what
you could improve if you came back.

1133
01:25:19.439 --> 01:25:27.960
No, okay, I'll I'll try
I do. I don't mind coming on

1134
01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:30.720
podcasts and I don't mind you know, you know, talk about the unit.

1135
01:25:30.119 --> 01:25:32.880
You know, uh, selection,
you know, selection is sacred.

1136
01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:38.359
Yeah, we get it. There's
and there's some things I will talk about.

1137
01:25:39.079 --> 01:25:41.199
But yeah, I was. Yeah, I was able to talk to

1138
01:25:41.279 --> 01:25:44.520
him at the end. He did
ask me some questions. I'm afraid if

1139
01:25:44.520 --> 01:25:47.039
I go into it, I'll end
up given someone. But but they but

1140
01:25:47.079 --> 01:25:50.840
they did welcome you to come back
again, try out again. Yes,

1141
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:54.840
he he asked me. He asked
me how I did. I told him

1142
01:25:54.840 --> 01:25:58.520
I thought I did. I thought
I did pretty well. And then he

1143
01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:00.279
laughed at me because he said,
well, you're you're sitting here, you

1144
01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:03.000
must not have done that well.
And I was like, out, Shelson,

1145
01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:10.039
Yeah, that's that's that's pretty much
true. We we had a we

1146
01:26:10.119 --> 01:26:13.920
had a lively conversation after that,
and I must have said something right to

1147
01:26:14.279 --> 01:26:17.920
uh to let them have pity on
me and bring me back for a second

1148
01:26:17.920 --> 01:26:26.199
try. And so I went went
deployed, UH, came back, came

1149
01:26:26.239 --> 01:26:30.439
back again, and was was was
just and I truly mean this, like

1150
01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:35.920
just lucky enough to to to get
through the process. Yes, I trained

1151
01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:40.079
for it a lot of guys,
did you know I was. I was

1152
01:26:40.119 --> 01:26:45.079
in the top third, you know, of the class whenever we did anything,

1153
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:46.880
you know, I mean, I
know physically I deserve to be there.

1154
01:26:47.239 --> 01:26:50.439
So you know, why do I
feel lucky? Because there are guys

1155
01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:56.520
that were way ahead of me and
always ahead of me and and didn't make

1156
01:26:56.560 --> 01:27:00.560
it. You know, it's just
it's a weird it's it's a weird process

1157
01:27:00.640 --> 01:27:06.640
that has that has a weird way
of working of working things out. And

1158
01:27:06.680 --> 01:27:10.439
there's there's a saying that didn't make
a whole lot of sense at the beginning,

1159
01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:13.960
and they'd say, hey, we're
not looking for the best guy,

1160
01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:17.840
We're looking for the right guy.
And I remember thinking myself, wouldn't the

1161
01:27:17.880 --> 01:27:20.520
best guy be the right guy?
Kind of doesn't make a whole lot of

1162
01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:28.560
sense. And again, just the
longer I was there, the truer that

1163
01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:31.960
that that saying rang out was it's
it's not the best guy, it's the

1164
01:27:32.079 --> 01:27:35.600
right guy. So I was just
again lucky enough to be the right guy.

1165
01:27:36.039 --> 01:27:41.359
So you get picked up and then
off to OTC and I mean,

1166
01:27:41.359 --> 01:27:44.119
what was that experience like for you? I mean, did you you enjoy

1167
01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:48.720
the training? Yeah, I'll tell
you. I will tell you this about

1168
01:27:48.720 --> 01:27:56.279
selection. It'll because it'll it'll roll
into into OTC as well. Selection bar

1169
01:27:56.479 --> 01:27:59.439
none. I don't care where you've
been. What you've done is the most

1170
01:27:59.439 --> 01:28:04.600
professional a thing you will ever witness. And and you know, I wish

1171
01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:08.760
I could kind of go into detail
and tell you, like what you know,

1172
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:13.079
how professional is and how it will
blow your mind, but I'll just

1173
01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:17.479
leader that it is. It is
the most professional thing you'll you'll ever experience.

1174
01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:19.760
And I don't know if you ever
you know, you ever had this

1175
01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:25.119
experience where you go to a military
school and things are they're they're run okay,

1176
01:28:25.199 --> 01:28:28.760
they're little a little discombibulated, and
you know, it makes you feel

1177
01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:31.279
at one point like, is this
your guy's first time ever running this course?

1178
01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:34.399
Yeah? I mean are you just
making this up? Yeah? Yeah,

1179
01:28:34.439 --> 01:28:39.720
you got to have this figured out
by now. That happens zero times

1180
01:28:40.079 --> 01:28:44.680
ever in West Virginia. It is
the most professional thing you will ever It's

1181
01:28:44.720 --> 01:28:50.239
so professional. We've had guys quit
before because they saw the level of professionalism

1182
01:28:50.279 --> 01:28:56.399
and a course and just said I'm
not that professional. I can't be this

1183
01:28:56.560 --> 01:29:01.239
professional and I can't meet this standard
and so and select themselves off off the

1184
01:29:01.239 --> 01:29:06.720
professionalism of it. So I'll absolutely
say that they, you know, the

1185
01:29:06.520 --> 01:29:12.760
the unit and selection deserves that that
credit and to be known for that.

1186
01:29:13.640 --> 01:29:20.960
And u OTC was still professional,
I say, not as professionals, you

1187
01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:29.159
know they it, Uh, you
messing up an OTC on a CQB run

1188
01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:31.399
and there will be a you know, a large muscular man yelling at you

1189
01:29:31.479 --> 01:29:34.600
from the catwalk, you know,
letting you know how much you suck and

1190
01:29:34.640 --> 01:29:38.720
I much you probably don't deserve to
be here, and uh, you know

1191
01:29:38.800 --> 01:29:42.840
it is it is up to you
to to to deal with that information and

1192
01:29:43.039 --> 01:29:48.920
uh and and react to react accordingly. The two things that they gave me,

1193
01:29:49.479 --> 01:29:59.239
uh were this, I felt challenged, and I felt like the you

1194
01:29:59.239 --> 01:30:03.119
know, the skill set that that
I was acquiring and the resources required to

1195
01:30:03.560 --> 01:30:09.079
you know, needed to develop this
type of skill set, we're finally there.

1196
01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:16.000
Like it just it's it's like it's
like being in a tactical Disney world.

1197
01:30:16.159 --> 01:30:20.439
I mean, just everything's at at
your fingertips. If you need it,

1198
01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:27.039
you'll get it. It's with without
a doubt, the most amazing place

1199
01:30:27.079 --> 01:30:32.600
I've ever worked. And and and
I almost feel bad sometimes telling people like

1200
01:30:33.319 --> 01:30:38.279
how great I had it, because
even though special operations and as a whole

1201
01:30:38.319 --> 01:30:41.920
generally speaking, you know, have
have money and they have equipment, but

1202
01:30:42.520 --> 01:30:46.920
very few people really know what it's
like to never want for anything. So

1203
01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:50.600
what was it like? What was
it like when you graduated and showed up

1204
01:30:50.600 --> 01:31:00.000
to your team and walking into their
team room that first day. I knew

1205
01:31:00.119 --> 01:31:04.680
this. I knew when when I
graduated OTC. Uh. It's one of

1206
01:31:04.680 --> 01:31:10.520
the few times in life where I
feel like I took a moment, you

1207
01:31:10.560 --> 01:31:14.399
know, and thought to myself,
Hey, like remember this, like this

1208
01:31:14.479 --> 01:31:18.079
will be this, This may be
the greatest accomplishment of your life. I

1209
01:31:18.159 --> 01:31:20.920
know, you know, maybe maybe
that even sounds dramatic, but at least

1210
01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:26.079
at least I felt aware enough to
know that this is something, you know,

1211
01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:29.479
a few people actually get to do. At the end of the day,

1212
01:31:29.479 --> 01:31:31.039
if you don't make select, even
if you make selection but you don't

1213
01:31:31.039 --> 01:31:35.239
make OTC, you did something great
that still very few people do. But

1214
01:31:35.279 --> 01:31:42.359
it's not you don't feel good about
not making it. Uh. And I

1215
01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:46.039
but I knew at that point,
even if they fired me in six months,

1216
01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:50.720
I was an operator and I you
know, and I did you know,

1217
01:31:51.479 --> 01:31:56.159
you know, I did this,
I accomplished this. I was good

1218
01:31:56.239 --> 01:31:59.760
enough. I you know, am
one of the very I'm in a part

1219
01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:03.079
of one of the smallest brotherhoods and
all of the military, and I definitely

1220
01:32:03.159 --> 01:32:11.319
I I enjoyed that moment. And
then of course when when the realization of

1221
01:32:11.399 --> 01:32:15.119
you know, getting into your team
room and that what you thought was was

1222
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:21.760
pretty good. CQB the my my
first team leader, did who did not

1223
01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:29.920
hand out compliments, uh ever to
anyone kind of let it slip that I

1224
01:32:29.960 --> 01:32:32.319
graduated number one in CQB, which
I knew. I knew I was doing

1225
01:32:32.359 --> 01:32:36.000
pretty good. Then as QB he
was letting me know, you goes,

1226
01:32:36.279 --> 01:32:41.479
so you think you think you're good
just because you graduated number one in CQB,

1227
01:32:41.680 --> 01:32:45.079
what's it's not going to be fast
enough here? And uh and I

1228
01:32:45.079 --> 01:32:53.079
looked at him and I go,
so I graduated number one cqbmember. I

1229
01:32:53.079 --> 01:32:56.000
remember going like, no, that's
that's not what this is about. But

1230
01:32:56.159 --> 01:33:00.399
forget that. But that's that's that's
not a compliment, it's nothing. Let

1231
01:33:00.439 --> 01:33:02.760
me go on, let me I
heard it. I heard it. Yeah,

1232
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:06.279
I want to see you be uh, no big deal. But he

1233
01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:12.199
was a but yeah, but he
was absolutely right. Man. You you

1234
01:33:12.279 --> 01:33:15.439
get over there, and those and
and they and they'll tell you this is

1235
01:33:15.720 --> 01:33:18.920
usually a pretty similar experience. They'll
go to the shoot house or the first

1236
01:33:19.000 --> 01:33:21.439
the first couple, you know,
the first couple of days, and at

1237
01:33:21.520 --> 01:33:25.039
least the first day, the first
couple of runs, they'll tell you,

1238
01:33:25.039 --> 01:33:28.359
hey, just hang out in the
back and don't try to shoot anything.

1239
01:33:29.800 --> 01:33:33.520
And that's and and uh and those
and I will always remember those first few

1240
01:33:33.640 --> 01:33:39.640
runs going, who yeah, that's
that's gonna be tough to keep up with.

1241
01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:43.199
You know. Uh. I didn't
feel like I didn't belong, but

1242
01:33:43.319 --> 01:33:46.520
I knew that I was about to
get challenged again. And and it was

1243
01:33:46.560 --> 01:33:53.239
just it was just another good feeling
knowing that, because it happens sometimes in

1244
01:33:53.239 --> 01:33:56.079
our careers and special operations where you
make it to something and you're like,

1245
01:33:56.600 --> 01:33:58.920
now it's good, and it's I
mean, it's really good, but it's

1246
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:01.239
not exactly everything I thought it was
going to be. You know, you

1247
01:34:01.279 --> 01:34:06.159
have those moments and you know that
the unit just never really gave me that

1248
01:34:06.199 --> 01:34:11.039
moment. I was it is what
you think it is. It must be

1249
01:34:11.079 --> 01:34:13.479
like on one hand, as a
new guy, a little intimidating, but

1250
01:34:13.520 --> 01:34:15.920
at the same time you're like,
I'm with like the absolute top notch guys.

1251
01:34:16.159 --> 01:34:18.359
I mean, it must be awesome
to be around that kind of talent.

1252
01:34:19.520 --> 01:34:26.439
It that particular team leader loved,
you know, you know, loved

1253
01:34:26.439 --> 01:34:33.560
his team to to have a lot
of confidence, but but to back it

1254
01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:40.520
up as well. And I remember, you know, my first deployment going

1255
01:34:40.520 --> 01:34:43.720
over there with those guys. You
know, still think me, yeah,

1256
01:34:43.720 --> 01:34:50.119
I have more than enough experience and
underneath my belt of combat experience, but

1257
01:34:51.039 --> 01:34:58.880
there's always this when you're on the
white side again, it's it's kind of

1258
01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:01.399
like National Guard twentieth group, Like
you don't like, you know, guys

1259
01:35:01.399 --> 01:35:05.039
that went there, but like once
they go over there, they go into

1260
01:35:05.079 --> 01:35:08.840
a black hole and you never talk
to them again, Like you have.

1261
01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:12.399
You hear rumors of what goes on
over there, but no one really knows.

1262
01:35:13.119 --> 01:35:15.479
You hear that they're you know,
you hear their target sets or are

1263
01:35:15.600 --> 01:35:19.319
so much livelier, and you know
when they go on target, you know,

1264
01:35:19.319 --> 01:35:24.479
it's always it's always it's always a
lively night and just hear these these

1265
01:35:24.520 --> 01:35:28.760
stories, and so you know,
I was a little bit you know,

1266
01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:30.560
didn't know what to think of the
unknown, you know, on on my

1267
01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:34.439
first deployment. But I do remember, you know, being next to those

1268
01:35:34.479 --> 01:35:38.479
guys and after, you know,
running through the shoot two house with them,

1269
01:35:38.560 --> 01:35:43.680
and you know, watching them and
mission planning and decision making and just

1270
01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:47.399
how they carried themselves day in and
day out and how well they knew their

1271
01:35:47.560 --> 01:35:53.439
job. Like I remember getting on
a helicopter going I'm good, like I'm

1272
01:35:53.479 --> 01:35:58.880
with these guys, you know,
I'm good, and and feeling still feeling

1273
01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:02.960
like I can contribute with these guys, but still knowing these guys, these

1274
01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:08.119
these guys are gonna take us home. And that's what they did. And

1275
01:36:08.159 --> 01:36:12.199
man, that's what they did.
Those those those guys were exactly who I

1276
01:36:12.239 --> 01:36:15.479
thought they were. As soon as
we got into combat. They were great.

1277
01:36:15.640 --> 01:36:17.119
Just can't say enough good things about
them. And so at this point,

1278
01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:19.720
I mean, you're you're off to
the races. You did another another

1279
01:36:19.760 --> 01:36:25.800
eight deployments to the Middle East,
and I mean, what what what?

1280
01:36:26.119 --> 01:36:29.640
Uh? I mean, I don't
know what you're comfortable talking about. I

1281
01:36:29.640 --> 01:36:32.239
mean, are there any particular operations
that stand out in your mind or any

1282
01:36:32.279 --> 01:36:38.319
particular experiences that you think are significant, either to you personally or maybe to

1283
01:36:38.399 --> 01:36:45.000
the history of Special operations. Frankly, I could have done without getting shot.

1284
01:36:45.600 --> 01:36:51.079
I get it stands out. I
was. I was running pretty clean

1285
01:36:51.199 --> 01:36:57.359
there for you know, probably going
into almost double digit deployments, and uh,

1286
01:36:57.439 --> 01:37:00.079
you know, everyone on my team
had a purple heart, and uh,

1287
01:37:00.119 --> 01:37:04.840
but then I do remember, I'll
say this about the night I got

1288
01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:12.640
I got shot. I was I
was getting more more aggressive and more aggressive,

1289
01:37:12.760 --> 01:37:15.640
you know, and things that that
I probably I knew they weren't like

1290
01:37:15.720 --> 01:37:19.840
flagrant, but I knew that I
probably shouldn't have been doing business that way,

1291
01:37:19.840 --> 01:37:25.039
and that there was probably a smarter
way to do business. But you

1292
01:37:25.039 --> 01:37:29.000
know, it's not like I just
turned into like an aggressive retard like I

1293
01:37:29.119 --> 01:37:33.680
just I'd slowly continue to go down
this you know, this this path and

1294
01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:36.800
got away with it and then got
away with it, you know, and

1295
01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:40.640
even you know, a couple of
times like you know, got to kill

1296
01:37:41.039 --> 01:37:43.920
you know, some people that I
that I wouldn't have been in a good

1297
01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:48.039
position to kill otherwise, and so
it you know, kind of reinforces that,

1298
01:37:48.119 --> 01:37:51.600
Hey, just the most aggressive guy, the fastest guy wins and always

1299
01:37:51.600 --> 01:37:58.279
wins. And that's just how it
is. And that is true ninety nine

1300
01:37:58.359 --> 01:38:01.000
percent of the times. And you
you, you play like that long enough,

1301
01:38:01.119 --> 01:38:05.399
you you will roll snake eyes.
Uh yeah, and and and and

1302
01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:11.439
and I rolled snake eyes one night, way too close, way too far,

1303
01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:15.119
you know, on squarter patrol,
squarter control, you know, a

1304
01:38:15.239 --> 01:38:18.680
click away out from the rest of
the assault element, continuing to engage a

1305
01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:24.119
guy, engage guys and get drawn
further and further out, and even knowing

1306
01:38:24.159 --> 01:38:28.439
that and being like, hey,
we're you know, there's you know,

1307
01:38:29.239 --> 01:38:31.600
we just got away with that last
one, and there's there's more people you

1308
01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:36.439
know behind, you know, in
this next group. I probably shouldn't go

1309
01:38:36.479 --> 01:38:41.760
that far, and I should probably
you know, plus up another operator to

1310
01:38:42.399 --> 01:38:45.920
you know, if if we're going
to do that, and then just going

1311
01:38:45.479 --> 01:38:50.399
and now we got this uh and
uh and and and we did not.

1312
01:38:50.920 --> 01:38:57.079
So I got shot. Our commo
guy that was with us got shot.

1313
01:38:57.840 --> 01:39:01.159
Uh. I got hit by a
grenade. About five seconds later after getting

1314
01:39:01.199 --> 01:39:09.439
shot another round uh skipped off and
shot my nods in half, so my

1315
01:39:09.479 --> 01:39:15.279
panos were dangling on my face.
Just shot up in a in a really

1316
01:39:15.359 --> 01:39:19.720
bad way. And really lucky,
lucky to get out of there, and

1317
01:39:20.119 --> 01:39:29.600
but we did, and it it
It didn't. It didn't change me to

1318
01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:35.159
to to being like hesitant or scared. I truly think it it reset me

1319
01:39:35.239 --> 01:39:40.560
to exactly where where I needed to
be. I don't think I would have

1320
01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:44.359
ever operated scared. It's just not
who I am. If if I think

1321
01:39:44.359 --> 01:39:47.279
I couldn't have got out of that, I would have just medically retired at

1322
01:39:47.279 --> 01:39:50.359
that point. I just you know, that's just not how I'm cut.

1323
01:39:50.399 --> 01:39:54.359
So I either just would have been
like, well, I lost it and

1324
01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:57.439
it's not for me. But you
know, the whole time that I was

1325
01:39:57.479 --> 01:40:01.159
in rehab, I could not wait
to get back on the battlefield. I

1326
01:40:01.199 --> 01:40:05.680
couldn't wait. I know it sounds
maybe weird to some people, but I

1327
01:40:05.720 --> 01:40:11.159
couldn't wait to kill someone again and
to prove like, hey, that's not

1328
01:40:11.199 --> 01:40:14.279
how my career ends. There's no
way that, you know. I felt

1329
01:40:14.319 --> 01:40:17.359
like my career would end it on
a mistake. So I worked as hard

1330
01:40:17.399 --> 01:40:21.000
as I possibly could to get back
out there and then to you know,

1331
01:40:21.880 --> 01:40:27.159
I don't know, validate myself still. I don't you know the right way

1332
01:40:27.359 --> 01:40:30.840
way to kind of describe it,
But that small reset. If I would

1333
01:40:30.880 --> 01:40:36.439
have continued on that path, I
would have died in Syria. That Syria

1334
01:40:36.520 --> 01:40:42.840
was such a different, such a
different game. You think you know i

1335
01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:47.279
DS, you know in Afghanistan,
You don't. You don't know what it's

1336
01:40:47.319 --> 01:40:56.039
like until Isis retreats from a village
and leaves about three thousand IDs everywhere,

1337
01:40:56.159 --> 01:41:01.000
on every road, on every courtyard, in the walls of houses, puts

1338
01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:08.600
them on timers, puts them on
ir trip devices. Just an absolute I

1339
01:41:08.840 --> 01:41:13.319
e ed debacle. And they were
more than and they were smart like they

1340
01:41:13.319 --> 01:41:18.560
were. They were more than willing
to to use your your aggressiveness against you

1341
01:41:18.600 --> 01:41:24.399
and pull you into situations, uh, only to only to find out too

1342
01:41:24.479 --> 01:41:27.279
late. Yeah, we made have
that. That's that's what they wanted us

1343
01:41:27.279 --> 01:41:35.359
to do. This really was a
formidable enemy and some aspects and in other

1344
01:41:35.439 --> 01:41:40.520
aspects there they were just dumb terrace
like the rest of them. So there

1345
01:41:40.560 --> 01:41:44.119
they were definitely a dynamic there with
IIS. But I hate man, I

1346
01:41:44.159 --> 01:41:48.239
really did. I I really hated
Isis on a on a level. The

1347
01:41:48.720 --> 01:41:53.000
at end of the day, I
kind of respected the Taliban after operating in

1348
01:41:53.000 --> 01:41:58.600
Iraq. Guys in Iraq were just
so quick to to surrender you know at

1349
01:41:58.640 --> 01:42:01.520
times, and just and just take
there, take their chances with the judicial

1350
01:42:01.560 --> 01:42:08.199
system at least at least in Afghanistan
generally speaking. Uh, they were willing

1351
01:42:08.279 --> 01:42:14.560
to fight it out with you.
And it was almost more like a tribal

1352
01:42:14.640 --> 01:42:17.000
war as well. Like I don't
know, again, I'm not going to

1353
01:42:17.039 --> 01:42:20.840
sit here and give too much,
too much respect and credence to the Taliban,

1354
01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:25.359
as if there's some sort of legitimate
government, you know, fighting for

1355
01:42:25.399 --> 01:42:30.439
their existence. And they're they're they're
horrible people. But compared to Isis,

1356
01:42:30.319 --> 01:42:35.680
Uh, they you know, I
can I view them in tow two different

1357
01:42:35.720 --> 01:42:42.239
categories. Yeah, the talentand wasn't
so much into like the flagrant war crimes

1358
01:42:42.279 --> 01:42:45.920
and stuff like that that Isis was. Yeah, I mean they had it,

1359
01:42:46.119 --> 01:42:48.079
you know, I mean they were, they were capable of it,

1360
01:42:48.199 --> 01:42:54.399
but they they the the amount when
Isis was willing to do it. They

1361
01:42:54.399 --> 01:42:57.359
were willing to do it often and
do it on a very large scale,

1362
01:42:57.920 --> 01:43:00.880
right And uh, and they were
and there were willing to do it,

1363
01:43:00.239 --> 01:43:03.479
you know, to kids as as
much as anyone. Right they were.

1364
01:43:04.880 --> 01:43:12.199
They were just they're just a different
breed of evil. And I I remember

1365
01:43:12.479 --> 01:43:15.840
you know seeing uh, you know, seeing isis dead bodies and just looking

1366
01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:23.319
down on them with absolutely no remorse
or no you know, in Turtle Struggle,

1367
01:43:23.359 --> 01:43:25.840
going man, that was someone's son, you know, that was someone's

1368
01:43:25.880 --> 01:43:29.720
father, but just looking at them
and absolutely not caring and being like that's

1369
01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:32.039
just a two legged dog. You
know, whish whish they were more next

1370
01:43:32.079 --> 01:43:36.000
to them. I just really disliked
them. On another well, could we

1371
01:43:36.039 --> 01:43:40.039
talk a little bit more about Syria
because you mentioned that that was like a

1372
01:43:40.039 --> 01:43:45.520
totally different environment and you guys presumably
working with the SDF, and it was

1373
01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:53.359
it more of like a UW environment
than some of the other deployments. Yeah,

1374
01:43:51.800 --> 01:43:56.880
I'll tell you that was an s
F mission. All day long,

1375
01:43:57.079 --> 01:44:02.239
that was an s F mission.
We had way too few guys doing way

1376
01:44:02.319 --> 01:44:08.039
too much, you know, and
for people who really aren't set up to

1377
01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:14.800
partner with with with other units.
It and I will tell you why SF

1378
01:44:14.840 --> 01:44:16.880
didn't get that mission. And they
wanted it. Fifth Group wanted it so

1379
01:44:16.920 --> 01:44:20.159
bad. In fact, there was
a plan to give it over to them

1380
01:44:21.159 --> 01:44:25.920
when we got to Rocca. We
were going to hand it over to them,

1381
01:44:26.000 --> 01:44:29.960
and then cooler minds prevailed because it
was like it's a horrible idea.

1382
01:44:30.079 --> 01:44:32.359
Like that's like it's like handing it
over it, you know, at halftime.

1383
01:44:32.399 --> 01:44:34.880
They either take it over now or
they don't take it at all,

1384
01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:39.239
Like don't, don't, don't,
don't turn it over to them, to

1385
01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:42.800
them right as they are getting to
the you know, the climax, and

1386
01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:46.359
and need and you need to be
a well oiled machine fighting their capital at

1387
01:44:46.439 --> 01:44:50.640
you know, at the at the
most and then you know, and then

1388
01:44:50.680 --> 01:44:54.800
give it to a new guy to
figure out all their all their all their

1389
01:44:54.840 --> 01:45:03.680
initial problems. The reason SF didn't
get it is because SF the same reason

1390
01:45:03.800 --> 01:45:08.840
I started to not like SF at
the end. They quit trusting their ground

1391
01:45:08.880 --> 01:45:16.760
guys. They required too much oversight
and that that war was going too fast.

1392
01:45:17.079 --> 01:45:21.720
If you if to slow them down
with the protocol so that that they

1393
01:45:21.760 --> 01:45:30.760
would inevitably do so. The unit
does a great job at trusting their ground

1394
01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:34.159
guys that you know, they you
know, I never never had an issue,

1395
01:45:34.840 --> 01:45:39.359
uh you know, being questioned or
asking why am I doing this or

1396
01:45:39.399 --> 01:45:42.760
why do I need that. I
just tell them what I'm doing, and

1397
01:45:42.800 --> 01:45:45.960
I tell them what I need and
uh, you know, and and if

1398
01:45:45.039 --> 01:45:49.560
you don't give them a reason,
you know to to uh to question you.

1399
01:45:49.680 --> 01:45:56.359
They they never will. And so
that my first trip was very was

1400
01:45:56.439 --> 01:46:00.880
very unique because it was it was
still I wouldn't even call it, you

1401
01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:05.840
w like it was. It was. It was closer to to Woold War

1402
01:46:05.920 --> 01:46:10.880
two, like you know, we
had you had friendly lines, you had

1403
01:46:10.960 --> 01:46:15.640
enemy lines, and there was there
was there was there was no one between

1404
01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:19.319
you know, and and even weirder
than that. At times it was like,

1405
01:46:19.399 --> 01:46:24.079
you know, we called it a
banker's war, like no one no

1406
01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:26.920
one fought at night. They didn't
they didn't have night vision, you know.

1407
01:46:27.079 --> 01:46:30.279
So you know, when the sun
came up and everyone woke up and

1408
01:46:30.279 --> 01:46:32.640
and and ate some breakfast, they
started lobbing mortars, you know, and

1409
01:46:33.079 --> 01:46:36.199
right before dinner time when everyone got
hungry, they you know, they packed

1410
01:46:36.239 --> 01:46:40.560
it up and and uh you know, and and waited for the sun to

1411
01:46:40.600 --> 01:46:45.520
come back up. That's yes,
that's a little bit of a satire way

1412
01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:50.119
to describe it, because it was
very unlike that at times, but there

1413
01:46:50.239 --> 01:46:57.920
is there there is a lot of
truth to that as well. There were

1414
01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:01.279
times, you know, if you
were to you know, have a fire

1415
01:47:01.640 --> 01:47:05.319
or or even allowed generator like it, it would it would it would get

1416
01:47:05.359 --> 01:47:09.319
you some some mortar rounds at night. I mean they would come out and

1417
01:47:09.319 --> 01:47:11.920
play at night if you gave a
reason to. But generally speaking, if

1418
01:47:11.920 --> 01:47:15.039
you didn't give a reason to,
they were just it was just a very

1419
01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:18.640
much a this was a good side, this is the bad side. They're

1420
01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:24.840
in this village. We're in this
village. There's two clicks of open ground

1421
01:47:24.920 --> 01:47:29.079
between the two villages, and we're
going to fight it out to see who

1422
01:47:29.159 --> 01:47:32.920
who's either going to lose this village
or gained this village. And for us

1423
01:47:33.159 --> 01:47:42.720
as as a sniper, it really
pushed us to to lean heavily into what

1424
01:47:43.319 --> 01:47:45.279
you know, we started to call
at the time EL our extreme long range,

1425
01:47:45.640 --> 01:47:48.680
because everything at the time was eight
hundred meters an end. You know,

1426
01:47:48.760 --> 01:47:51.600
eight hundred meters if you're lucky with
a three or eight, Well three

1427
01:47:51.720 --> 01:47:56.159
or eight wasn't gonna do anything,
you know, from from from two thousand

1428
01:47:56.159 --> 01:48:00.119
meters away. But that's where our
engagements are. And so now now we've

1429
01:48:00.159 --> 01:48:05.560
all always had three three eights,
but we never really dusted them off and

1430
01:48:05.680 --> 01:48:11.760
use them with a lot of you
know, extremely at you at at these

1431
01:48:12.319 --> 01:48:15.439
uh engagements, and now you know, we're finding out you know, we

1432
01:48:15.319 --> 01:48:21.520
the way we we use our I
would have a tripod and a you know,

1433
01:48:21.600 --> 01:48:28.520
and a pillow for my for my
laser range finder, like things that

1434
01:48:28.640 --> 01:48:31.039
I've never had to do before.
But you know, uh, you know,

1435
01:48:31.319 --> 01:48:36.039
I would have a three thousand dollars
really right stuff tripod just just for

1436
01:48:36.199 --> 01:48:40.840
my laser range finder, because comes
to find out, you know, at

1437
01:48:40.840 --> 01:48:45.560
twenty two hundred meters away, if
I'm just a little bit off and I

1438
01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:49.239
lased the you know, the building
in front of the building, I'm I'm

1439
01:48:49.279 --> 01:48:53.079
you know, I'm trying to get
you know, I'm off. You know,

1440
01:48:53.119 --> 01:48:56.359
I'm off by by fifty meters,
and and in that fifty meters,

1441
01:48:56.399 --> 01:49:00.199
now my elevation is drastically different,
and I'm never going to hit my target

1442
01:49:00.239 --> 01:49:03.279
at two thousand meters, even though
that you know, that three thrade is

1443
01:49:03.279 --> 01:49:09.640
more than capable of making a two
thousand meters shot. So I either just

1444
01:49:09.720 --> 01:49:13.600
excited a lot of some of some
of your nerdy shooter audience, or I

1445
01:49:13.680 --> 01:49:16.279
just put to sleep some of some
of the guys who just like direct action.

1446
01:49:18.319 --> 01:49:24.079
We learned a lot about our equipment
and about our guns. In Syria.

1447
01:49:24.199 --> 01:49:28.920
It was a very very different war. Do you find the three three

1448
01:49:28.960 --> 01:49:31.960
eight once you guys dialed it in
that you guys were pretty effective using that

1449
01:49:32.039 --> 01:49:38.840
weapons platform at those rangers. Yeah, well that three three was great.

1450
01:49:38.960 --> 01:49:45.319
It was the one thing that we
would go back and forth is when you

1451
01:49:45.359 --> 01:49:48.560
get over two thousand meters, the
problem we'd run into is spotting your misses.

1452
01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:54.199
Even though you think the three thrade
is is a large round demand it

1453
01:49:54.199 --> 01:49:59.720
it is, but you can easily
not see a miss at two thousand meters

1454
01:50:00.600 --> 01:50:04.079
And if you can't see your missus
the correct you can keep throwing puns all

1455
01:50:04.079 --> 01:50:08.640
you want, but now you're just
you know, trying to get lucky.

1456
01:50:09.119 --> 01:50:14.039
And even though the fifty cow is
not as accurate as at three three eight,

1457
01:50:15.239 --> 01:50:17.520
at least you can see your missus. And it's especially if you put

1458
01:50:17.560 --> 01:50:21.359
like a rafis round you know inside
there you can, you know, you

1459
01:50:21.399 --> 01:50:26.800
can seeing your your missus in that
environment becomes a lot easier. And even

1460
01:50:26.840 --> 01:50:30.720
though it's not as accurate, you
know, I at least can you know,

1461
01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:35.560
can make an informed decision on a
correction, which I just couldn't with

1462
01:50:35.640 --> 01:50:41.960
a three three eight. Right,
And did it really change the way we

1463
01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:45.399
operated a lot from long distance?
Ye? Did the reliance on the sniper

1464
01:50:45.439 --> 01:50:51.520
platforms have to do with the air
support not being as quick as it was

1465
01:50:51.600 --> 01:50:58.159
in Afghanistan or Iraq. Uh No, we uh we we were the only

1466
01:50:58.159 --> 01:51:00.560
game in town, so we always
we always got the kind of got what

1467
01:51:00.640 --> 01:51:04.640
we wanted. It has more to
do with guys hanging out in the windows

1468
01:51:04.720 --> 01:51:09.159
or hanging out, you know,
or or being under underneath structures that an

1469
01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:14.239
aerial you know, platform isn't really
gonna be able to see as well as

1470
01:51:14.279 --> 01:51:18.000
someone from from a ground level.
Now, did you guys? Uh?

1471
01:51:18.159 --> 01:51:21.279
And and if I called in an
air strike, and I really have a

1472
01:51:21.319 --> 01:51:24.960
hard time saying that's my kill,
So I'm at least going to try a

1473
01:51:24.960 --> 01:51:27.319
couple of third rounds at it.
The four, I call it an air

1474
01:51:27.319 --> 01:51:30.239
strike. Yeah. Now between the
three, three, eight and and uh

1475
01:51:30.600 --> 01:51:35.960
the fifty, did you guys experience
experiment all of with like the three hundred

1476
01:51:35.960 --> 01:51:40.840
windmags or anything like that, you
know, for that sort of medium range

1477
01:51:40.960 --> 01:51:46.760
type of Yeah, the three hundred
windmag just what wasn't a platform we used

1478
01:51:46.800 --> 01:51:50.079
And no no particular reason, uh
you know, the you know, the

1479
01:51:50.079 --> 01:51:54.079
the SF groups, to my knowledge, I think are the only ones that

1480
01:51:54.199 --> 01:51:57.800
used that three hundred windmag and it's
a great round. I mean, it's

1481
01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:03.000
a laser around. Mean, the
the ballistics of that round is absolutely great.

1482
01:52:03.399 --> 01:52:10.079
It doesn't have a great barrel life
to it. And unfortunately the the

1483
01:52:10.159 --> 01:52:14.720
SF groups purchased that and they didn't
do a good job of having a kind

1484
01:52:14.720 --> 01:52:17.520
of a barrel replacement plans. They
actually had a great they probably had one

1485
01:52:17.560 --> 01:52:23.119
of the great medium range or one
of the best medium range long guns in

1486
01:52:23.199 --> 01:52:27.680
the arsenal for for anyone, but
with most of the barrels were shot out,

1487
01:52:27.920 --> 01:52:30.119
Yeah, ended up not as as
great as they should have been.

1488
01:52:30.319 --> 01:52:33.960
Yeah, because I know some that's
something that seals used quite a bit and

1489
01:52:34.479 --> 01:52:40.239
they seem to be very happy with
it. Did they use a three hundred

1490
01:52:40.239 --> 01:52:43.720
as well? I believe so they
use it in their sniper school, I

1491
01:52:43.760 --> 01:52:46.119
know. So okay, yeah,
yeah, we didn't even we didn't even

1492
01:52:46.119 --> 01:52:51.640
the only thing we even use I
went to group sodic and UH and level

1493
01:52:51.680 --> 01:52:59.439
one sodic. Gosh, I got
a thing with uh sift sick or SIFT

1494
01:52:59.479 --> 01:53:03.399
sick if you will, Special Forces
Snacker course. UH. And we only

1495
01:53:03.479 --> 01:53:10.319
used three our weights, you know, at that three Yeah, so as

1496
01:53:10.359 --> 01:53:13.960
as least you know, you're you're
going back and forth from Syria. I

1497
01:53:13.960 --> 01:53:21.600
mean, how did you see the
campaign evolve over time? The the campaign

1498
01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:26.119
was was pretty straightforward really, yea. Even though we handed off to other

1499
01:53:26.159 --> 01:53:30.600
squadrons, you know they it was
they really you know, encountered the same

1500
01:53:30.640 --> 01:53:34.439
things we did and and you know, worked very similarly. So really it

1501
01:53:34.479 --> 01:53:36.920
was just like you know, we'd
come in and out. It was just

1502
01:53:38.199 --> 01:53:43.720
it's just picking back up where you
left off. I and between and between

1503
01:53:43.880 --> 01:53:48.479
rotations, I missed the the the
fall, the fall of Rocca, so

1504
01:53:48.600 --> 01:53:53.640
I'm sure that would have been a
lot different. And I'll tell you why

1505
01:53:53.680 --> 01:53:55.479
I feel. I think it's a
lot. It was a lot different,

1506
01:53:57.199 --> 01:54:00.399
because when I showed up to Rocco, like very shortly after the fall of

1507
01:54:00.479 --> 01:54:05.119
Rocca, I remember driving around that
place at night feeling like I was at

1508
01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:12.520
the you know, the opening of
Terminator, when there's just bombed out buildings

1509
01:54:12.560 --> 01:54:20.960
just everywhere on this dark, smoky
atmosphere. I've never seen damage at that

1510
01:54:21.199 --> 01:54:28.520
scale to a city the way we
leveled Rocca. We absolutely leveled Rocca,

1511
01:54:29.800 --> 01:54:33.119
and rightfully so yeah, and I
have to ask too while we have you

1512
01:54:33.159 --> 01:54:35.560
here, I mean, did you
have any involvement in the bag, daddy

1513
01:54:35.640 --> 01:54:45.359
raid. Now that that was the
very first diploma of myst gotcha and I

1514
01:54:45.600 --> 01:54:51.600
so hit Rocca and what happened from
there? I mean you said that you

1515
01:54:51.600 --> 01:55:00.600
you actually went into the city at
one point. Oh yeah, well from

1516
01:55:00.760 --> 01:55:11.319
uh from there we went back into
a more traditional, uh kind of high

1517
01:55:11.399 --> 01:55:17.439
value target right hunting. So the
the war the traditional was over and then

1518
01:55:17.439 --> 01:55:24.800
that that kicked off a much more
fun part of Syria where we went back

1519
01:55:24.840 --> 01:55:28.600
into uh, into strip quick strikes
and a lot of them, and and

1520
01:55:28.840 --> 01:55:31.720
and had and had a great time. That that was probably my most enjoyable

1521
01:55:32.680 --> 01:55:36.680
trip would have been after the fall
of that and uh, you know some

1522
01:55:36.720 --> 01:55:41.319
of those guys pretending like they can
just put down their guns and build back

1523
01:55:41.319 --> 01:55:45.880
into the population and and uh and
the curds will just forget about them.

1524
01:55:46.079 --> 01:55:49.960
Nope, the curds didn't forget about
you. Uh. They and they told

1525
01:55:50.039 --> 01:55:55.720
us by what we've had. And
these are the uh from the outside looking

1526
01:55:55.720 --> 01:55:59.880
in. The occasional like scentcom Press
reports that somebody flew in and black Hellica

1527
01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:03.680
optors in the night and hashed out
business with the bad guys. Yeah,

1528
01:56:04.359 --> 01:56:11.439
it happened a lot more than the
press, press releases. There was no

1529
01:56:11.479 --> 01:56:15.720
need for the press to get wind
of of any of it. What was

1530
01:56:15.920 --> 01:56:20.199
that like for you and and you
know, your fellow soldiers in the sense

1531
01:56:20.279 --> 01:56:26.000
of there there was you know,
the press might report on and occasionally,

1532
01:56:26.079 --> 01:56:30.239
like we had just had these two
very long wars, right that we're in

1533
01:56:30.279 --> 01:56:34.000
and out of the media. But
but but there was a national awareness about

1534
01:56:34.039 --> 01:56:39.840
it. But then Syria comes and
and it's not in the national consciousness the

1535
01:56:39.880 --> 01:56:43.680
way these other wars are. But
we have troops that are fighting same as

1536
01:56:43.680 --> 01:56:46.119
we do in parts of African stuff. But what was that like for you

1537
01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:50.960
guys? I welcomed it, you
know, well I shouldn't say I welcomed

1538
01:56:50.960 --> 01:56:55.439
it at the time. I didn't
know about it. I mean really like

1539
01:56:55.439 --> 01:56:59.640
you know, when you're in that
world, like I don't if I don't

1540
01:56:59.680 --> 01:57:02.079
know the news is reporting on or
what they're not reporting on. You know,

1541
01:57:02.239 --> 01:57:06.840
I live in a very I lived
in a very uh almost in a

1542
01:57:06.840 --> 01:57:12.279
bubble. You know, your job, you're right, yeah, do your

1543
01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:15.079
job, go home, and when
I'm home, I'm training for my next

1544
01:57:15.159 --> 01:57:16.479
job. You know, So I
don't you know, I don't have time

1545
01:57:16.560 --> 01:57:19.399
to listen to see what you know, to see if what the news is

1546
01:57:19.439 --> 01:57:24.439
reporting about Syria, I you know, I live it in Syria. I

1547
01:57:24.439 --> 01:57:27.279
don't, you know, I don't
necessarily The only time I would see anything

1548
01:57:27.279 --> 01:57:30.239
on the news is someone like,
you know, showed it to us and

1549
01:57:30.239 --> 01:57:33.560
say, hey, this is this
is what they're talking about. Or if

1550
01:57:33.600 --> 01:57:36.199
something got leaked, you know,
something got leaked. We we'd always you

1551
01:57:36.239 --> 01:57:39.960
know, we'd always know it.
You know, they'd always you know,

1552
01:57:40.159 --> 01:57:44.720
show it to us that something got
leaked and try to so like those are

1553
01:57:44.760 --> 01:57:49.119
those are far intry between well when
when you would they try to like like

1554
01:57:50.119 --> 01:57:55.600
scare you guys straight find out who
did it? Like now, most of

1555
01:57:56.119 --> 01:58:00.760
most of the time, uh,
those those leaks would would have come from

1556
01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:08.800
a partner force or you know,
someone someone at a at a much you

1557
01:58:08.840 --> 01:58:11.840
know, higher level in the military
that that they you know, they knew

1558
01:58:11.920 --> 01:58:16.560
was way. Yeah it's not it's
somebody in the three X or it's right,

1559
01:58:16.800 --> 01:58:20.239
yeah, yeah, it's it's not
even someone Jasock related. Yeah,

1560
01:58:21.319 --> 01:58:27.159
Like it's someone that's at a at
a at a theater like sitcom level that

1561
01:58:27.239 --> 01:58:30.720
has a relationship with Fox News and
and and and leaked it. You know,

1562
01:58:30.720 --> 01:58:36.319
it's that's usually where you know,
along those lines. Yeah, so

1563
01:58:36.800 --> 01:58:41.600
from that time period, Uh,
is there any other like significant missions I

1564
01:58:41.680 --> 01:58:48.119
kind of stand out for you.
I won't I won't go into great detail

1565
01:58:48.159 --> 01:58:50.560
about it, and I don't need
to do that as a teaser, but

1566
01:58:50.640 --> 01:58:57.239
I'll say this more or less to
kind of set the records straight on it.

1567
01:58:57.239 --> 01:59:01.199
It's another thing that it's it's funny
what what does get news traction?

1568
01:59:01.279 --> 01:59:06.720
What doesn't get news traction? What
should have been a much bigger story?

1569
01:59:06.840 --> 01:59:09.680
And was it? And I'll talk
about it because, like I said,

1570
01:59:09.680 --> 01:59:14.800
you can google it. You know
John Dunbar, you know, dying in

1571
01:59:14.880 --> 01:59:19.800
Syria and uh and Matt ton Row
which was a British essays guy which was

1572
01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:24.319
right next to him when he died. Should should have been a huge news

1573
01:59:24.359 --> 01:59:26.239
story, you know if you think
about it, I mean, you've got

1574
01:59:26.279 --> 01:59:29.920
an adults Force guy and a British
says guy dying on the on the same

1575
01:59:30.000 --> 01:59:35.000
target. When has that ever happened? You know? That's that's that's that

1576
01:59:35.119 --> 01:59:40.439
was crazy. It's never happened in
the history of either one of our of

1577
01:59:40.439 --> 01:59:45.720
our existence yet in Syria that was
without it out of first, but that

1578
01:59:45.840 --> 01:59:49.399
ended up being a bigger news story
in Syria, I mean in England because

1579
01:59:50.840 --> 01:59:55.119
you know, we had told our
people that we know that we obviously have

1580
01:59:55.399 --> 02:00:00.880
you know, ground troops and combat
operations happening in Syria. They were they

1581
02:00:00.159 --> 02:00:06.000
weren't as forthcoming with it with the
SASH and so when the news so when

1582
02:00:06.000 --> 02:00:10.920
the news hit that an SAS guy
died in Syria, you know, a

1583
02:00:10.960 --> 02:00:13.920
lot of the public was like,
WHOA, what's going on here? You

1584
02:00:13.920 --> 02:00:16.479
didn't you guys said that we were
kind of there in a support role.

1585
02:00:16.600 --> 02:00:24.760
That doesn't seem like a support role. One of the worst misconceptions of that

1586
02:00:25.439 --> 02:00:31.880
of that of that mission is that
newspapers reported that it was that it was

1587
02:00:31.920 --> 02:00:41.000
fratricide that that killed him and remember
something just but it was, wasn't it?

1588
02:00:41.439 --> 02:00:44.239
And then and there's a problem with
it, like you use terms like

1589
02:00:44.279 --> 02:00:48.239
i ED what's you're right, but
but people assume like like roadside bomb I

1590
02:00:48.439 --> 02:00:50.800
d S because that's what you know
when you talk about I DS is what

1591
02:00:50.920 --> 02:00:55.840
you know, it's what you know
what what it almost always is. We

1592
02:00:55.840 --> 02:01:00.520
were dismounted at the time, really
close to target, to a bomb maker's

1593
02:01:00.560 --> 02:01:10.239
target. He had he had an
early warning and his uh A like an

1594
02:01:10.239 --> 02:01:16.800
ied makeshift Claymore went off and John
took the brunt of that. But it's

1595
02:01:16.800 --> 02:01:23.279
set off his wall charge, and
his wall charge is what is what killed

1596
02:01:23.319 --> 02:01:26.800
Matt. And that is that story. You know, that story is out

1597
02:01:26.800 --> 02:01:30.680
there, but generally speak and it
will say, hey, it was a

1598
02:01:30.720 --> 02:01:35.640
fratricide and you know he died due
to a friendly explosion. They'll they'll say

1599
02:01:35.640 --> 02:01:41.479
it in ways that that are that
kind of really, yeah, it's a

1600
02:01:41.520 --> 02:01:45.479
sympathetic explosion. It's not jump around
the truth. Yeah, I would like

1601
02:01:45.520 --> 02:01:49.279
the way they say that because so
let's it would be like writing a story

1602
02:01:49.359 --> 02:01:57.000
and saying, you know, Sergeant
first class Smith died in Afghanistan due to

1603
02:01:57.119 --> 02:02:02.079
a fuel a gas tank explosion in
his V Well, did the I d

1604
02:02:02.359 --> 02:02:08.199
set off the gas explosion? Right? Yes, well but the gas tank

1605
02:02:08.319 --> 02:02:11.159
killed him? Like that makes you
know, nowhere in the history do do

1606
02:02:11.239 --> 02:02:14.520
we ever do we ever say that? I don't know why why we do

1607
02:02:14.560 --> 02:02:18.039
it? Here? It it was
the direct cause of you know, of

1608
02:02:18.039 --> 02:02:25.960
of direct contact with newspaper. Stories
were written, Yeah, that said differently,

1609
02:02:26.039 --> 02:02:31.119
that that painted it insinuated differently.
It's sort of the way fact checkers

1610
02:02:31.159 --> 02:02:39.119
work sometimes, right, is they
they I mean, technically, what they're

1611
02:02:39.159 --> 02:02:43.800
saying that it was an American explosive
that killed them is true, but they're

1612
02:02:43.840 --> 02:02:48.520
missing. But but they're leaving out
really how it all went down. Yeah,

1613
02:02:48.680 --> 02:02:54.079
that's like, that's that's one it's
one way to Yeah, it's it's

1614
02:02:54.079 --> 02:02:58.479
sort of like saying that somebody who
died from you know, from enemy fire

1615
02:02:58.560 --> 02:03:02.760
died from blood boss. It's like, yeah, that's right, right,

1616
02:03:02.920 --> 02:03:09.159
yeah, but that's that's so true. But they didn't just start bleeding and

1617
02:03:09.239 --> 02:03:13.960
I and you know, they the
the I don't remember which newspaper, but

1618
02:03:14.000 --> 02:03:17.520
you know, the the the you
know in England, they did like a

1619
02:03:17.520 --> 02:03:20.359
whole investigation on it, and then
you know, wrote a report saying,

1620
02:03:20.359 --> 02:03:23.880
you know, this is the official
report, you know, off of it,

1621
02:03:23.920 --> 02:03:27.199
you know, and sent it out
as as official record. And again

1622
02:03:27.840 --> 02:03:32.159
it's it's technically true, but I
feel like it's it's wildly uh misleading,

1623
02:03:32.199 --> 02:03:35.640
and doesn't it doesn't do justice,
you know, honestly to either one of

1624
02:03:35.640 --> 02:03:40.239
the guys who were who were who
were her warriors. I mean, they

1625
02:03:40.239 --> 02:03:45.680
were both truly, truly good man. I'll tell you a story just real

1626
02:03:45.720 --> 02:03:51.600
quick about Matt Tunroe was an sas
guy. That guy would, uh,

1627
02:03:51.760 --> 02:03:55.439
he'd have to go on helicopter every
now and again and go you know and

1628
02:03:55.479 --> 02:03:59.319
go visit, you know, other
places where where they were at. And

1629
02:03:59.359 --> 02:04:02.439
if he found out that were we
were going on on a mission that night,

1630
02:04:03.119 --> 02:04:06.800
he would do everything in his power
to get his HELO to come in

1631
02:04:06.920 --> 02:04:11.680
sooner or see if we would push
the mission later, because he didn't want

1632
02:04:11.680 --> 02:04:16.239
to miss a single target. He
was absolutely addicted to going on missions.

1633
02:04:16.640 --> 02:04:20.680
And I love that about him because
you know, that's that's that's the way

1634
02:04:20.720 --> 02:04:25.880
you want every every one of your
guys to you know, to be.

1635
02:04:26.359 --> 02:04:31.000
And so just it's very unfortunate that
you know that he lost his life in

1636
02:04:31.039 --> 02:04:40.479
Syria and in that manner because he
absolutely was represented his his unit. You

1637
02:04:40.479 --> 02:04:45.000
couldn't do a better job of representing
those guys. And so how did how

1638
02:04:45.079 --> 02:04:48.039
did this start to like wind down
for you? I Mean it sounds like

1639
02:04:48.079 --> 02:04:55.079
you really like rode this wave throughout
your career, did some amazing things and

1640
02:04:55.119 --> 02:04:58.159
you had you had a great you
know, twenty years in the military.

1641
02:04:58.199 --> 02:05:00.119
I mean, what was it sort
of like for you, Like you you

1642
02:05:00.199 --> 02:05:03.319
must have some inkling that like this
is coming. I'm not going to be

1643
02:05:03.359 --> 02:05:06.880
able to be an operator forever.
I mean, what was that transition like

1644
02:05:06.960 --> 02:05:11.119
for you? Yeah, I mean
I was, I was deep in my

1645
02:05:11.199 --> 02:05:14.159
thirties and you know, almost you
know, a decade at the time on

1646
02:05:14.159 --> 02:05:17.039
on a team, you know which
my team time was was coming to an

1647
02:05:17.119 --> 02:05:24.960
end. The uh what what really
you know kind of did it for me?

1648
02:05:25.199 --> 02:05:28.359
Was you know, after that after
that serial trip we had we had

1649
02:05:28.359 --> 02:05:32.239
been uh we we were doing training
the way we always do training, and

1650
02:05:32.479 --> 02:05:36.600
uh, I was just unfortunate enough
to be close to a couple of really

1651
02:05:36.640 --> 02:05:44.000
big kind of training being explosions that
that that just really they really rocked me.

1652
02:05:45.720 --> 02:05:48.680
And unlike earlier, you know those
you know, I've been near those

1653
02:05:48.680 --> 02:05:53.720
size explosions before. But for whatever
reason, you know, at this point

1654
02:05:53.760 --> 02:05:56.680
in my life, you know,
maybe it just finally shook something loose.

1655
02:05:57.760 --> 02:06:01.720
I was, I was having some
some some some real issues. So we'd

1656
02:06:01.760 --> 02:06:05.920
we'd get and and what would happen
is almost every time we'd go back to

1657
02:06:06.359 --> 02:06:11.359
do an explosive training like these,
these mental issues would would would rear back

1658
02:06:11.439 --> 02:06:15.800
up almost like like like like a
re injury of it. It would get

1659
02:06:15.800 --> 02:06:20.079
to a point where like just simple
stuff like I you know i'd have to.

1660
02:06:20.159 --> 02:06:25.319
I would I would write notes in
my in my locker to tell to

1661
02:06:25.359 --> 02:06:28.840
tell me where I parked my car, because I would just go wandering out

1662
02:06:28.840 --> 02:06:31.600
in the parking lot and looking for
it. And it's a massive parking lot.

1663
02:06:32.279 --> 02:06:36.399
And I feel like the first time
it really felt odd to me because

1664
02:06:36.479 --> 02:06:40.119
usually when you see your car,
you're like, oh, that's right,

1665
02:06:40.520 --> 02:06:43.960
that's that's right, that's where I
parked my car, But like to see

1666
02:06:44.000 --> 02:06:46.760
the car for the first time,
you're like, that's not did someone moved

1667
02:06:46.800 --> 02:06:49.760
my car? And literally going in
there and starting accusing, you know,

1668
02:06:49.840 --> 02:06:54.359
hey, who moved my car?
Like I was parked, you know,

1669
02:06:54.720 --> 02:06:57.039
out there right, and like Brendain
moved your car. I parked right next

1670
02:06:57.039 --> 02:06:59.359
to you, that's where you parked
this morning. I'm like, oh,

1671
02:06:59.439 --> 02:07:01.399
yeah, that's right. You know, I'm trying to play it off,

1672
02:07:01.439 --> 02:07:05.279
and you know, I mean,
I go on and on and on.

1673
02:07:05.159 --> 02:07:08.479
But one of the you know,
the weirder stories is, you know,

1674
02:07:09.279 --> 02:07:12.960
you know, take taking the taking
the wife and kids to church and just

1675
02:07:14.560 --> 02:07:16.880
driving and at some point, you
know, you know, having you know,

1676
02:07:16.920 --> 02:07:18.960
your wife put you know, her
hand on your hand and be like

1677
02:07:19.920 --> 02:07:28.880
do you do you know where we're
going. I'm like, no, no,

1678
02:07:29.079 --> 02:07:31.000
I don't know where we're going right
now, Like we're all dressed up

1679
02:07:31.079 --> 02:07:34.399
kind of nice, and so I'm
going to guess we're going to church,

1680
02:07:35.439 --> 02:07:38.359
but no, I don't know.
I don't know what day it is.

1681
02:07:38.359 --> 02:07:41.119
I don't know where we're going.
And uh. And I was with my

1682
02:07:41.159 --> 02:07:45.720
wife's like, here, you're gonna
go talk to someone Monday or or I

1683
02:07:45.760 --> 02:07:50.760
will, and uh, I was
and my team time was was I was

1684
02:07:50.840 --> 02:07:54.720
within you know, I had one
more deployment left, you know, really,

1685
02:07:54.760 --> 02:07:59.159
I mean I was, so it
was it. It felt right,

1686
02:07:59.319 --> 02:08:03.319
yeah, and I felt I felt
complete with my career. I mean really

1687
02:08:03.319 --> 02:08:07.600
Syria was great, man, I
loved Syria. But when I got home

1688
02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:09.479
from that last trip, I don't, you know, just something clicked.

1689
02:08:09.479 --> 02:08:13.600
I was like, you know what, you know, every trip I couldn't

1690
02:08:13.600 --> 02:08:16.359
wait for the next one. And
it's not that I didn't you know,

1691
02:08:16.399 --> 02:08:18.840
didn't have the hunger, didn't want
to wait for you know, didn't want

1692
02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:22.760
to deploy again, But there was
a feeling of completion, you know,

1693
02:08:22.000 --> 02:08:26.560
there that had just never been there
before. So what was all said and

1694
02:08:26.600 --> 02:08:31.279
done? It wasn't it? Honestly
was it wasn't. It wasn't the hardest

1695
02:08:31.279 --> 02:08:35.720
transition. It wasn't first, you
know, realizing it's time. But as

1696
02:08:35.720 --> 02:08:39.359
we started making steps towards that,
I was, I was kind of excited

1697
02:08:39.399 --> 02:08:43.600
about the what you know that the
next chapter in life. That's awesome.

1698
02:08:43.720 --> 02:08:50.520
Do we have do you have questions
for Brent? We do? I just

1699
02:08:50.560 --> 02:08:54.119
wanted to say, also that air
tags. I put an air tag in

1700
02:08:54.159 --> 02:09:00.439
my car. It worked, it
works, wondering. Yeah, yeah,

1701
02:09:00.520 --> 02:09:07.039
yeah, yeah, let's hear Jackson, thank you very much. Was attending

1702
02:09:07.119 --> 02:09:11.399
selection for the unit more challenging coming
from guard SF. Is guard SF well

1703
02:09:11.479 --> 02:09:16.520
represented in the and also how often
you see riems, airmen and sailors at

1704
02:09:16.520 --> 02:09:24.479
the unit. That's that's a good
question. I was surprised at how many

1705
02:09:24.560 --> 02:09:28.640
other twentieth group guys were there.
There there was a there was a period

1706
02:09:28.680 --> 02:09:35.119
of time where the highest uh it
was a short period of time, but

1707
02:09:35.520 --> 02:09:41.600
it fluctuates that twentieth group had one
had the best uh success rate at selection.

1708
02:09:43.279 --> 02:09:48.640
So uh yeah, it's there's there's
definitely no shortage of or at least

1709
02:09:48.680 --> 02:09:52.960
at that time, you know,
of of guard guys. There's you know,

1710
02:09:52.000 --> 02:09:56.479
there's an eclectic mix of of guy's
unit. At the end of the

1711
02:09:56.600 --> 02:10:00.279
day, it'll always be heavy with
Green Rays and Rangers. But they're is

1712
02:10:00.560 --> 02:10:03.920
there's someone from everyone there, I'll
just you know, leave it. That

1713
02:10:03.039 --> 02:10:07.960
will necessarily talk about the percentages of
all of them. But uh, they're

1714
02:10:07.039 --> 02:10:13.880
they're they're all there, they and
they definitely all show up the selection and

1715
02:10:13.000 --> 02:10:16.399
Jackson, thank you much. How
different are the cultures between the squadrons?

1716
02:10:18.840 --> 02:10:24.840
Oh, that's that's uh, that's
a that's another good question. Actually it

1717
02:10:26.079 --> 02:10:33.399
when I first got there, the
uh, the cultures were were I would

1718
02:10:33.520 --> 02:10:37.840
say drastically different. Because the truth
is, if you went back a little

1719
02:10:37.880 --> 02:10:43.039
bit further when I was there,
some people would say they were drastically different.

1720
02:10:43.680 --> 02:10:46.279
Uh, when you know, when
I got there, there was there

1721
02:10:46.319 --> 02:10:52.520
were still very very different. They
all had their their their own personalities.

1722
02:10:52.159 --> 02:10:58.279
Uh, and and sometimes were better
or worse. And by the by the

1723
02:10:58.479 --> 02:11:00.680
really by the time, by the
time I got to the end of my

1724
02:11:00.720 --> 02:11:03.760
career, a lot of those uh, I would probably say more on a

1725
02:11:03.840 --> 02:11:09.359
negative you know, those negative type
cultures just had had pretty much all but

1726
02:11:09.439 --> 02:11:13.760
all but disappeared. And uh,
even though there are still slight differences,

1727
02:11:13.840 --> 02:11:18.039
but between the squadrons, it wasn't
as much as it used to be.

1728
02:11:20.760 --> 02:11:24.319
And then how do you feel about
how did you feel about Dev Group and

1729
02:11:24.479 --> 02:11:35.359
HRT when you were in I didn't
feel about them, uh Jo, Who

1730
02:11:35.880 --> 02:11:39.560
who are they? I think I
read a book about the second one?

1731
02:11:43.399 --> 02:11:46.039
The uh we had a we had
a lot of interaction with with the dev

1732
02:11:46.119 --> 02:11:50.039
Group guys. And you know,
I've done you know, I've done you

1733
02:11:50.039 --> 02:11:54.079
know, large scale training exercises with
them. They've you know, they've come

1734
02:11:54.119 --> 02:11:56.119
over and had large trail you know, you know, send ones onesI,

1735
02:11:56.159 --> 02:12:01.399
twosy guys or a team over to
do large scale old training operations to get

1736
02:12:01.439 --> 02:12:07.720
that that crossover. And we'll just
say in various places around the world,

1737
02:12:07.920 --> 02:12:13.079
I've I've had one or two of
their guys attached to us so they could

1738
02:12:13.079 --> 02:12:16.239
get, you know, experience of
where we're at. And they were always

1739
02:12:16.239 --> 02:12:20.640
good guys. They really were.
They were always good guys. HRT.

1740
02:12:20.880 --> 02:12:26.560
I don't never never, never saw
them. They just you know, completely

1741
02:12:26.560 --> 02:12:33.199
different mission set. They're generally speaking, their conis were Okonis. There there

1742
02:12:33.319 --> 02:12:35.239
was a time we had HRT guys
kind of attached to us, but when

1743
02:12:35.239 --> 02:12:39.840
they were attached to us, they
were just evidence collectors. You know they

1744
02:12:39.159 --> 02:12:45.399
weren't. They weren't shooters by by
any stretch of imagination and or and nor

1745
02:12:45.479 --> 02:12:46.359
could they be. They you know, they haven't gone through our level of

1746
02:12:46.439 --> 02:12:52.319
training. Uh, Joe's got you, Thank you very much. Did you

1747
02:12:52.359 --> 02:12:56.319
work a lot with twenty two sas
while deployed? Got that one? Yeah,

1748
02:12:56.319 --> 02:13:00.920
I think we kind of got that, uh dog point. And there

1749
02:13:01.079 --> 02:13:03.319
there's a there's another one. And
I'll just tell you just a quick story

1750
02:13:03.479 --> 02:13:09.520
about how much respect we have with
with with the sas. You know,

1751
02:13:09.640 --> 02:13:13.479
obviously we were modeled after those guys. They they helped us out a lot

1752
02:13:13.520 --> 02:13:16.159
with our tactics in the beginning.
By the beginning, I mean talking like

1753
02:13:16.199 --> 02:13:22.520
nineteen seventy seven, you know,
Charlie Beck with founder days, and that

1754
02:13:22.600 --> 02:13:28.319
type of relationship has has maintained for
for forty plus years. So I mean,

1755
02:13:28.359 --> 02:13:31.880
I'll make up this, you know, this fictional scenario, but it's

1756
02:13:31.920 --> 02:13:35.359
but it's absolutely true. If I
was in Syria and some you know,

1757
02:13:35.640 --> 02:13:37.800
and I'll make it close to them. My green Bret, a green Bret

1758
02:13:37.880 --> 02:13:41.359
comes and knocks on my door and
we're like, hey, heard who you

1759
02:13:41.359 --> 02:13:43.520
guys are? Just want to come
over and say hi, I'd be like,

1760
02:13:45.520 --> 02:13:48.560
go hawk forty miles and you can
come back and say hi. You

1761
02:13:48.600 --> 02:13:50.880
know, you know, i'd say
it nicer, but yeah, but generally,

1762
02:13:52.159 --> 02:13:56.319
generally speaking, that's turn it around. Bring a foreigner to my door,

1763
02:13:56.680 --> 02:14:01.000
a guy who's not even an American, but they could an says,

1764
02:14:01.079 --> 02:14:03.199
guy, come and knock on my
door and say hey, yeah, hey

1765
02:14:03.279 --> 02:14:07.319
mate, you know I'm I'm with
the two two. I was told to

1766
02:14:07.319 --> 02:14:09.920
come say hi. I'd opened that
door as fast as I could and bring

1767
02:14:09.960 --> 02:14:16.000
him right on end, invite him
for a spot of tea. That's right.

1768
02:14:16.079 --> 02:14:20.359
Yeah, the relationship that the two
units have are are are great and

1769
02:14:20.399 --> 02:14:24.520
I'll I still talk to some of
those guys. Great, great guys,

1770
02:14:26.199 --> 02:14:30.880
dog point, thank you. What
do you like about your squadron? What

1771
02:14:30.960 --> 02:14:39.600
was the vibe? Like? Any
funny stories? There's there's always It doesn't

1772
02:14:39.640 --> 02:14:43.359
matter what part of this business you're
in. You know, you work with

1773
02:14:43.439 --> 02:14:46.840
the funniest guys you've you've ever been
around, you know, and I don't

1774
02:14:46.880 --> 02:14:48.800
care if you're a cel green ray
rage, Okay, what you did.

1775
02:14:50.279 --> 02:14:52.960
You're just hanging out with the funniest
guys. You'll you'll, you'll, you'll

1776
02:14:54.000 --> 02:14:58.439
ever work with you know, the
vibe of my squadron I think was a

1777
02:14:58.520 --> 02:15:03.920
very was a good middle of the
road vibe. Like we we uh,

1778
02:15:03.960 --> 02:15:07.039
we were very We're very professional.
We needed to be, and you know,

1779
02:15:07.199 --> 02:15:11.960
we could could kick back and relax
when when needed to be. I

1780
02:15:11.000 --> 02:15:16.960
think other squadrons at times did,
uh, we're too professional and we're very

1781
02:15:16.960 --> 02:15:18.920
fun to be around, and uh, you know some of them were.

1782
02:15:20.720 --> 02:15:24.760
You know, we're a little bit
more I say, say cowboyish, but

1783
02:15:24.800 --> 02:15:28.039
don't. I don't need to say
that. Unlet's in a bad light.

1784
02:15:28.000 --> 02:15:31.800
But I think we had a good
balance of both. And so I really

1785
02:15:31.840 --> 02:15:37.119
and and uh enjoyed, enjoyed the
culture of the squadron I was in.

1786
02:15:37.600 --> 02:15:45.680
So Goldilocks will find you guys just
right. Yeah, uh, Nick TC,

1787
02:15:46.000 --> 02:15:50.640
well this is actually for Jack Well
Mike Perry ever return maybe if he

1788
02:15:50.680 --> 02:15:54.199
wants to. Sure, we'd love
to have them passed. Daniel Knight May

1789
02:15:54.560 --> 02:15:58.520
Yeah, yeah, first first group
Perry. Oh no, obviously I'm plotting,

1790
02:15:58.520 --> 02:16:03.520
Okay, the bare knuckle fighter Mike
Perry. Not not that Mike Perry.

1791
02:16:03.640 --> 02:16:07.680
Okay, Dan O not in lyons
Den, thank you, Delta least

1792
02:16:07.680 --> 02:16:15.439
the way big PP eighty second Pug
and dragons. It was just a comment.

1793
02:16:15.760 --> 02:16:26.600
Yeah, and then uh m hmm, so Joe's got you. Thank

1794
02:16:26.600 --> 02:16:33.000
you very much. You can talk
or not talk about this obviously. Was

1795
02:16:33.040 --> 02:16:39.440
your squad involved at all with the
Battle of Kasham in twenty eighteen against Vagner

1796
02:16:39.600 --> 02:16:46.440
Group, Yeah, I was.
I was in dars Are. It was

1797
02:16:46.680 --> 02:16:50.760
it was a good time. Uh
there's there's a deuced article about it.

1798
02:16:50.760 --> 02:16:54.959
You can read it. Uh dog
point. Uh, thank you very much.

1799
02:16:56.159 --> 02:16:58.040
When you went back to HBT raised
a sero. Was it business as

1800
02:16:58.120 --> 02:17:07.559
usual or did you have to change
it up? Oh? More or less

1801
02:17:07.879 --> 02:17:13.159
business as usual? You know,
the you know, all the ideas was

1802
02:17:13.479 --> 02:17:16.399
definitely more of a thing on uh
you know that type of you know,

1803
02:17:16.479 --> 02:17:20.639
gaining ground conventional forces they're pulling back, you know, laying them all in.

1804
02:17:22.159 --> 02:17:24.959
They still kept, you know,
the knowledge of that and some of

1805
02:17:24.959 --> 02:17:33.040
the TTPs, but generally speak,
generally speaking, it was back to business

1806
02:17:33.040 --> 02:17:39.879
as usual and I believe that is
it. So tell us about f RCC

1807
02:17:41.159 --> 02:17:46.079
and some of the things that you're
involved in now. Uh. Yeah.

1808
02:17:46.200 --> 02:17:50.680
When when I got out of the
military, I had to figure out what

1809
02:17:50.719 --> 02:17:54.319
I want to do. When I
grew up, had no real you know,

1810
02:17:54.440 --> 02:17:58.639
solid plans. You know. I
did a couple like ten ninety nine

1811
02:17:58.680 --> 02:18:01.120
gigs contracting, but all kind of
stuff I knew I didn't want to go

1812
02:18:01.200 --> 02:18:05.280
overseason contract. Nothing against any of
those guys, who do you know,

1813
02:18:05.399 --> 02:18:09.120
I just you know, it's not
something that I was looking to do.

1814
02:18:09.760 --> 02:18:13.559
I had a couple of former unit
guys, uh you know, start calling

1815
02:18:13.559 --> 02:18:15.520
me and be like, hey,
we're training a squat team here, I

1816
02:18:15.559 --> 02:18:16.879
need an extra instructor. You want
to come out? I was like,

1817
02:18:18.520 --> 02:18:20.040
that sounds yeah, I'd love to
you go, you know, hang out

1818
02:18:20.079 --> 02:18:24.239
SWAT teams and you know, try
to transfer some of this knowledge that's really

1819
02:18:24.319 --> 02:18:28.719
kind of very uniquely you know to
us. And I'm kind of uniquely to

1820
02:18:30.959 --> 02:18:35.239
unique to SWAT teams because they,
you know, they deal with with barricaded

1821
02:18:35.239 --> 02:18:39.239
shooters, active shooters, things like
that that that would happen on on our

1822
02:18:39.280 --> 02:18:45.440
targets. And I really enjoyed sharing
information with those guys, like I really

1823
02:18:45.440 --> 02:18:48.040
did, Like I gotta you know, I felt like I, you know,

1824
02:18:48.120 --> 02:18:54.879
every time I went and taught those
guys that I truly gave them the

1825
02:18:54.920 --> 02:19:01.319
tools needed to be just as effective, if not more effective, and to

1826
02:19:01.399 --> 02:19:05.239
do business smarter, to make sure
that they can go home at night.

1827
02:19:07.120 --> 02:19:13.760
And I'll never teach someone tactics where
we were where safety is somehow and like

1828
02:19:13.040 --> 02:19:20.520
the the the lead of of of
a reason for teaching a tactic, never,

1829
02:19:20.639 --> 02:19:24.440
never, never, a safety ever
played a part on. That's why

1830
02:19:24.479 --> 02:19:31.559
we do this tactic. But if
the effectiveness can stay on the same and

1831
02:19:31.639 --> 02:19:37.440
there is the same end result that
this guy dies, yet I can increase

1832
02:19:37.479 --> 02:19:41.879
your survivability, Yeah, we'll,
we'll, we'll talk about that. And

1833
02:19:41.959 --> 02:19:46.079
so you know, I got to
I got to basically show those guys the

1834
02:19:46.159 --> 02:19:50.920
lessons that we learned in blood.
Like I really wish I could say that

1835
02:19:50.719 --> 02:19:54.000
we're so much smarter at the unit
than everyone else, and that's why our

1836
02:19:54.040 --> 02:20:03.520
tactics are so much better. We're
kind of smart. But the unfortunate truth

1837
02:20:03.600 --> 02:20:07.479
is we just get to see a
lot more targets and we had to learn

1838
02:20:07.520 --> 02:20:09.840
it the hard way like everyone else
does. So we just got we just

1839
02:20:09.879 --> 02:20:15.000
get a lot more exposure to mistakes
and into doing things wrong, and some

1840
02:20:15.040 --> 02:20:18.479
of those things be honestly, it
took us way too long to change the

1841
02:20:18.479 --> 02:20:22.760
way we do we do business,
So I'm really glad to be able to

1842
02:20:22.760 --> 02:20:28.280
share that with those guys. That's
something that eventually turned into me and a

1843
02:20:28.319 --> 02:20:33.360
seal Team six. Buddy. Uh, we're gonna start or did start,

1844
02:20:33.399 --> 02:20:37.559
the beginning of a nonprofit to raise
money for a police offer for a police

1845
02:20:37.600 --> 02:20:43.959
officer training budget is such such a
big deal to those guys. They have

1846
02:20:45.120 --> 02:20:48.399
no budget. They want to train, uh, you know, they and

1847
02:20:48.479 --> 02:20:52.239
sometimes they can get like equipment budgets
and sometimes they have more equipment than you

1848
02:20:52.280 --> 02:20:56.760
think they would than that they would
have because of certain grants, but training

1849
02:20:56.799 --> 02:21:01.600
doesn't come along with it. And
some departments don't have the necessarily equipment either.

1850
02:21:01.920 --> 02:21:07.280
So it's a it's really diverse,
you know, group of people you

1851
02:21:07.360 --> 02:21:13.639
run into and swat teams. And
I'm not talking about your your wokeness term

1852
02:21:13.719 --> 02:21:20.159
of of of diverse, you know, I'm talking about just the different the

1853
02:21:20.239 --> 02:21:24.280
different experience levels, the different training, the different equipment. It's it's all

1854
02:21:24.280 --> 02:21:30.159
over the place. So we're going
to start a nonprofit. Come to find

1855
02:21:30.159 --> 02:21:35.319
out, I don't like asking people
for money, and that is a integral

1856
02:21:35.399 --> 02:21:39.719
part of being a nonprofit. It's
much so very it's a key component.

1857
02:21:39.760 --> 02:21:45.959
It's a key component to a nonprofit. So uh, I ended up starting

1858
02:21:46.000 --> 02:21:48.319
Ah, you know, starting First
Responders Coffee Company. First, you know

1859
02:21:48.440 --> 02:21:54.239
that I much rather you know,
sell things, have an exchange for you

1860
02:21:54.280 --> 02:21:58.440
know, you know, value for
a product. And then you know,

1861
02:21:58.520 --> 02:22:01.200
take take the money we raise from
that and uh and put it towards First

1862
02:22:01.239 --> 02:22:05.079
Responders. So we started with the
coffee company. We started November of last

1863
02:22:05.120 --> 02:22:13.520
year. We've we've donated back a
little over twenty thousand dollars in less than

1864
02:22:13.559 --> 02:22:18.200
a year. And and the and
the truth is, I love saying that

1865
02:22:18.280 --> 02:22:20.879
number because it kind of sounds like
a big number for a small business.

1866
02:22:20.520 --> 02:22:26.319
But we we get more requests than
I could ever feel right now. So

1867
02:22:26.879 --> 02:22:31.959
we won't be happy until we can
stop telling departments that here what we're doing

1868
02:22:31.040 --> 02:22:37.079
and asking for help. Until we
can fulfill all those requests, we will

1869
02:22:37.120 --> 02:22:41.479
never be satisfied. And so that
comes into the next part of the business.

1870
02:22:43.040 --> 02:22:46.719
You know, we could add another
coffee line, which would take a

1871
02:22:46.760 --> 02:22:52.840
lot of work and maybe add a
little bit of revenue, but we decided

1872
02:22:52.840 --> 02:22:54.239
on hey, what if we added
a whole new product, we can get

1873
02:22:54.239 --> 02:23:01.680
into a whole new group of purchasers. And so we started First Responders Cigar

1874
02:23:01.799 --> 02:23:07.000
Company and hopes of of of garnering
a wider audience, and that's been great.

1875
02:23:07.239 --> 02:23:13.520
That's been a little bit of a
selfish pleasure because I smoked two to

1876
02:23:13.600 --> 02:23:16.760
three of my own stash every day
and so I needed that at wholesale pricing.

1877
02:23:18.600 --> 02:23:22.159
But uh, but besides that,
you know, if you think half

1878
02:23:22.479 --> 02:23:28.920
half of the country drinks coffee.
But but it is a very you know,

1879
02:23:28.040 --> 02:23:31.360
kind of convoluted market. There's a
lot of people fighting in that space.

1880
02:23:31.879 --> 02:23:35.280
Even though I don't know I could
argue within first responders, that's a

1881
02:23:35.559 --> 02:23:41.280
there's there's a you know, a
multi million, you know person audience that

1882
02:23:41.680 --> 02:23:43.719
you know that that doesn't have a
product, you know, kind of like

1883
02:23:43.760 --> 02:23:48.040
ours catering to them. So,
you know, we do have a nice

1884
02:23:48.120 --> 02:23:52.639
niche cutout in that area. But
a small percentage of people smoke cigars.

1885
02:23:52.600 --> 02:23:56.120
But we're the only cigar you know, we're the only one of the very

1886
02:23:56.239 --> 02:24:01.479
very few American disabled vet and own
you know, cigar lines, and then

1887
02:24:01.479 --> 02:24:05.959
of course the only one doing anything
for first responders. Our cigar sales will

1888
02:24:07.040 --> 02:24:11.360
probably take over our coffee sales in
the next couple of months. I'll check

1889
02:24:11.399 --> 02:24:13.479
you guys out, Brent, because
we smoked cigars on the show. We

1890
02:24:13.559 --> 02:24:18.680
have our humidor here, so I'll
definitely check out. You got a box

1891
02:24:18.719 --> 02:24:22.200
coming at you? All right,
Well, well, we're happy to support

1892
02:24:22.200 --> 02:24:26.000
the cause, and and we encourage
everybody else to support the cause, whether

1893
02:24:26.079 --> 02:24:31.159
it's for coffee or cigars or I
guess you said whiskey, but I guess

1894
02:24:31.200 --> 02:24:35.239
cognac would go better, right first, are there you go? Yeah,

1895
02:24:35.319 --> 02:24:37.799
yeah, I kind of have this
f r c C you know thing,

1896
02:24:37.840 --> 02:24:46.360
go on, ye, yeah,
company, we'll work with it. But

1897
02:24:46.639 --> 02:24:54.280
you guys can can find them at
f r c UH coffee dot com.

1898
02:24:54.319 --> 02:25:01.959
That's Foxtrot Romeo Charlie Coffee dot com. Check them out, and it's gonna

1899
02:25:01.000 --> 02:25:03.920
be in the link. Uh,
it's gonna be in the show description also

1900
02:25:05.840 --> 02:25:11.920
down below. And then also,
uh, you started out as a guest

1901
02:25:11.239 --> 02:25:16.680
on the Anti hero podcast, right, and then kind of work your way

1902
02:25:16.760 --> 02:25:24.079
up just through sheer talent and charisma. Right, He needed the covotes with

1903
02:25:24.120 --> 02:25:30.239
a small vocabulary, and I was
the clear choice. And yeah, you

1904
02:25:30.280 --> 02:25:35.440
can find the Anti HEROO podcast on
YouTube and also on podcast platforms. Right,

1905
02:25:35.840 --> 02:25:41.920
your your favorite podcast, So tell
us about that. Yeah, it

1906
02:25:41.879 --> 02:25:48.920
really coincides with the first Responder Coffee
company story. I think if I remember,

1907
02:25:50.000 --> 02:25:52.079
right, the local news channel picked
up a story about us, and

1908
02:25:52.120 --> 02:25:56.760
I just got a random email from
you know, from a small podcast,

1909
02:25:56.959 --> 02:25:58.680
you know, saying, hey,
I'd love to have you on the show

1910
02:26:00.239 --> 02:26:03.079
Orange County Deputy, which is that
the county I live in. I was

1911
02:26:03.120 --> 02:26:05.239
like, well, absolutely, I'll
do a podcast with you here, you're

1912
02:26:05.239 --> 02:26:11.040
a mowing backyard what over there.
Did a podcast with him, really enjoyed

1913
02:26:11.040 --> 02:26:13.520
it. It was a good time. Is a really good dude and a

1914
02:26:13.520 --> 02:26:18.319
first responder. It was an easy
conversation have with him. He had me

1915
02:26:18.399 --> 02:26:20.959
back on you know, a couple
more times times, and you know,

1916
02:26:22.079 --> 02:26:24.040
and the times I was on was
always the you know, his his bigger

1917
02:26:24.079 --> 02:26:30.840
shows, and uh, you know, not to be edgy, but it's

1918
02:26:30.879 --> 02:26:35.879
just true. And it happened,
you know, I ended up. I

1919
02:26:35.959 --> 02:26:41.520
ended up saying something on a thirty
second snippet on a podcast ended up into

1920
02:26:41.520 --> 02:26:46.120
a much bigger or deal. I'll
try to make it real quick. He

1921
02:26:46.319 --> 02:26:50.559
just he asked me. He asked
me some off the wall question on a

1922
02:26:50.760 --> 02:26:54.920
on a first responder topic interview,
and he goes, hey, well,

1923
02:26:56.000 --> 02:26:58.840
are there are there any secrets like
you want to tell me about, you

1924
02:26:58.879 --> 02:27:01.719
know, black ops? I was
like, no, I don't really have

1925
02:27:01.760 --> 02:27:05.200
any because, be honest with you, most things get leaked, so you

1926
02:27:05.479 --> 02:27:11.319
probably know them all anyway. And
then he randomly goes, did Robin nilkill

1927
02:27:11.399 --> 02:27:15.319
Osama Bin Laden? And I just
I answered the way I kind of do

1928
02:27:15.399 --> 02:27:18.719
in a team room, and I
go, Rob O'Neil didn't killed in Lad

1929
02:27:18.799 --> 02:27:24.440
and it's the worst kept secret and
all the special operations. And he cut

1930
02:27:24.479 --> 02:27:28.840
that as a sippet and posted it
as the promo although it had nothing to

1931
02:27:28.879 --> 02:27:35.280
do with the with the episode,
and it goes viral, Brent you rabble

1932
02:27:35.399 --> 02:27:41.639
rouser, Yeah O'Neill. Did he
actually respond to that? Or so for

1933
02:27:41.799 --> 02:27:46.600
anybody who's curious, you do have
to check out like the full episode where

1934
02:27:46.600 --> 02:27:52.520
you go into the weeds with it, which was episode thirty seven thirty seven.

1935
02:27:52.639 --> 02:27:56.280
So, and the problem with that
was it was cut as a teaser,

1936
02:27:56.520 --> 02:28:00.639
an unintentional teeth. It wasn't so
it wasn't a teaser that was gonna

1937
02:28:00.840 --> 02:28:03.920
that was gonna go into something more. That was it. That was just

1938
02:28:03.959 --> 02:28:07.319
my comment about it. It goes
viral and has I don't know between all

1939
02:28:07.360 --> 02:28:11.719
of them a million views and and
a lot of people were upset They're like,

1940
02:28:11.719 --> 02:28:15.159
you can't just say something like that
and not back it up. And

1941
02:28:15.159 --> 02:28:18.200
there was a lot of that,
and and a lot of people just upset

1942
02:28:18.440 --> 02:28:22.040
that, you know, I would
make such a claim without any You can't

1943
02:28:22.079 --> 02:28:26.479
call someone a liar and have no
you know, you know, evidence to

1944
02:28:26.559 --> 02:28:31.000
it. So it took me a
little bit. I was like, you

1945
02:28:31.000 --> 02:28:33.280
know what, they're right. So
I came back out with a two and

1946
02:28:33.280 --> 02:28:39.280
a half hour podcast talking about this
exact subject, taking open source information from

1947
02:28:39.520 --> 02:28:46.239
from Matt Byssinette to uh to your
Guys' podcast to you know to not not

1948
02:28:46.280 --> 02:28:54.760
my normal star witness but uh uh
osalam Bin Lahan's wife, who was also

1949
02:28:54.799 --> 02:28:58.719
in the room, actually makes a
statement about what happened that night. Uh

1950
02:28:58.319 --> 02:29:05.159
hate the hate to ruin a surprise
ending. But everyone's story are all the

1951
02:29:05.200 --> 02:29:13.840
same except for one. So everybody's
lying but Rob. Everyone everyone's note.

1952
02:29:13.159 --> 02:29:16.680
Rob is the only outlier. And
here everyone else has the same exact story

1953
02:29:16.760 --> 02:29:22.239
about what happened that night, except
except for the guy making millions off of

1954
02:29:22.239 --> 02:29:28.600
it. I mean words like stolen
valor being thrown around, but I don't

1955
02:29:28.600 --> 02:29:31.000
know, you can use your own
words. So yeah, and I people

1956
02:29:31.000 --> 02:29:35.959
should go check out that that podcast
a deep dive that you guys did well

1957
02:29:35.120 --> 02:29:37.760
in the podcast in general, because
you guys cover a lot of really cool

1958
02:29:37.799 --> 02:29:43.920
topics, because you talk about I
mean a lot of first responder stuff.

1959
02:29:43.959 --> 02:29:48.680
I mean, and you guys,
you guys call out bullshit where you see

1960
02:29:48.719 --> 02:29:52.799
bullshit too, we do. But
by I told him, although my my

1961
02:29:52.879 --> 02:29:56.159
co host Tyler really uh he has
you know, a very like of a

1962
02:29:56.319 --> 02:29:58.799
you know, he loves punk rock
and he has that he likes that co

1963
02:30:00.000 --> 02:30:03.479
culture and he doesn't he doesn't mind
mixing it up a little bit. Although

1964
02:30:03.520 --> 02:30:07.719
ironically enough, uh, you know
that that comment makes it looks like I'm

1965
02:30:07.799 --> 02:30:11.959
I'm more than happy to stir things
up. But the truth is, you

1966
02:30:11.000 --> 02:30:13.959
know, I stepped in it and
then I had to own it. And

1967
02:30:15.000 --> 02:30:18.440
I told you know, the you
know, the Antihero podcast when I came

1968
02:30:18.479 --> 02:30:22.079
on end of the day, I
really want this to be a platform where

1969
02:30:22.680 --> 02:30:26.360
we can tell the stories of first
responders and I just don't think get told

1970
02:30:26.559 --> 02:30:31.120
and and and there's always going to
be the and we'll have those stories on

1971
02:30:31.239 --> 02:30:33.399
fact. We have one coming on
you know tomorrow with a cop that got

1972
02:30:33.440 --> 02:30:37.200
that that took around and you know, got shot in the line of duty.

1973
02:30:37.000 --> 02:30:39.840
You know, that's very you know, very unique to any profession.

1974
02:30:39.920 --> 02:30:43.719
You know, there's cops getting shot
all over this country and it's a it's

1975
02:30:43.719 --> 02:30:48.159
an epidemic, and it's it's it's
horrible. But you know those those stories

1976
02:30:48.200 --> 02:30:52.479
are out there. But let me
take there are stories out there that paramedics

1977
02:30:52.479 --> 02:30:54.760
and ambulance right you know, uh, you know, writers can can tell

1978
02:30:54.799 --> 02:31:00.120
you that never get a voice and
never get to tell you know, their

1979
02:31:00.760 --> 02:31:07.799
mind the worst stuff day in and
day out. Kids and moms getting mangled

1980
02:31:07.799 --> 02:31:09.239
in a car wreck, you know, on the way to you know,

1981
02:31:09.360 --> 02:31:13.120
on the way to school. Just
things that are that are horrible, but

1982
02:31:13.200 --> 02:31:16.600
you know they you know, I
just want to make I want to get

1983
02:31:16.200 --> 02:31:20.959
a platform out there to where all
first responders you know, can stories.

1984
02:31:22.959 --> 02:31:28.639
Yeah that's fantastic. And yeah,
I mean, like it's weird that reporting

1985
02:31:28.639 --> 02:31:33.680
on police shootings, police being shot
like it's gone way down, but police

1986
02:31:33.719 --> 02:31:37.680
are like getting shot down a lot
out there right now. Two police officers

1987
02:31:37.959 --> 02:31:43.360
and uh at in Orlando just just
got shot a couple of weeks ago.

1988
02:31:43.440 --> 02:31:48.479
And and here's and here's what's outside. Here's what's a really cool story.

1989
02:31:48.559 --> 02:31:54.280
Usually when that happens, however,
it's how it seems, is uh,

1990
02:31:54.319 --> 02:32:00.479
you know, the suspect flees into
a county or you know, or an

1991
02:32:00.520 --> 02:32:03.760
area outside the swat team's jurisdiction.
So it just just just the way it

1992
02:32:03.799 --> 02:32:09.559
happens, not not not not not
often enough does the local swat team whose

1993
02:32:09.600 --> 02:32:13.159
brother and sister you just shot get
to go take care of it. But

1994
02:32:13.239 --> 02:32:18.719
that's exactly what happened in Orlando.
This guy holds up in a hotel still

1995
02:32:18.719 --> 02:32:22.520
within the Orlando city limits, and
the swat guys go to work, and

1996
02:32:22.719 --> 02:32:28.280
uh, uh that that guy got
got the good news that night. I

1997
02:32:28.319 --> 02:32:33.959
guess I'm assuming he resisted arrest or
had a had a had a gun he

1998
02:32:33.959 --> 02:32:37.000
shouldn't have, and you know,
and the good news is he doesn't have

1999
02:32:37.079 --> 02:32:41.799
to go through the court system.
He's already he's already Uh, he's already

2000
02:32:41.799 --> 02:32:45.879
got a sentence. And I got
to send those guys a whole box of

2001
02:32:45.920 --> 02:32:48.600
cigars with a handwritten letter, and
I said, hey, you know,

2002
02:32:48.520 --> 02:32:52.520
you know and enjoy this, you
know, not you know, taking human

2003
02:32:52.559 --> 02:32:56.760
life is obviously something you should you
should should never be you know, taken

2004
02:32:56.000 --> 02:33:01.319
lightly. But that being said,
not not everyone here deserves this life,

2005
02:33:01.399 --> 02:33:07.280
and I gave him just a long, heart a heartfelt letter that said,

2006
02:33:07.840 --> 02:33:11.079
like, you know, I've gone
through doors. It worked out well tonight,

2007
02:33:11.120 --> 02:33:13.840
but I know, yeah, I
know what it feels like to not

2008
02:33:13.000 --> 02:33:16.399
know how tonight's gonna work out right
before that door opens, you know,

2009
02:33:16.479 --> 02:33:20.280
and just you know, some SMaL
kind of intimate stuff about it. And

2010
02:33:20.840 --> 02:33:26.760
they loved it. They framed it, they smoked my cigars and you know,

2011
02:33:26.879 --> 02:33:30.000
and they're back at it take,
you know, removing bad guys from

2012
02:33:30.040 --> 02:33:31.680
the streets, you know, every
other night, and I love that about

2013
02:33:31.719 --> 02:33:35.399
SWAT teams. Yeah, Brent again, man, thank you for doing this

2014
02:33:35.479 --> 02:33:39.719
tonight, And I just want to
let people know we'll be back Monday with

2015
02:33:39.760 --> 02:33:43.280
William Osgod who's a Special Forces in
Vietnam. And then next Friday we're gonna

2016
02:33:43.319 --> 02:33:48.840
have Robin Horsfall on the show,
who was in SAS. So we're really

2017
02:33:48.840 --> 02:33:52.879
looking forward to talking to those two
guys this upcoming week. Brent, any

2018
02:33:52.879 --> 02:33:56.399
final thoughts before we wrap up tonight, No, I just again, I

2019
02:33:56.879 --> 02:34:01.200
couldn't be any more humbled you guys
have me on here and and thinking that

2020
02:34:01.600 --> 02:34:05.639
my story is interesting enough to listen
to me run my rap run my trap

2021
02:34:05.639 --> 02:34:07.760
for a couple. Now, you
were a great man. It was really

2022
02:34:07.760 --> 02:34:11.200
fascinating. Uh and I really appreciate
you doing this. Yeah, we deeply

2023
02:34:11.239 --> 02:34:16.239
appreciate your time. What can are
you on social media? Much? Can

2024
02:34:16.239 --> 02:34:20.319
people follow you if they're interested?
I? Uh, some some habits I

2025
02:34:20.600 --> 02:34:24.680
didn't want to break. The only
social media have is is the business and

2026
02:34:24.799 --> 02:34:28.040
uh and I keep it there.
I didn't even want to learn that part

2027
02:34:28.040 --> 02:34:31.879
of social media, but but I
had to. There you go, that's

2028
02:34:31.879 --> 02:34:35.000
cool. People can go check that
out. So definitely, Uh, check

2029
02:34:35.040 --> 02:34:41.399
out fur CC, first Responder coffee
company, cigar company, and send a

2030
02:34:41.399 --> 02:34:48.520
big KGNAC company h or a Servesi
company. You'll figure something out, yeah

2031
02:34:48.680 --> 02:34:56.000
something Uh and check right out on
the Anti Hero podcast. Yeah absolutely and

2032
02:34:56.200 --> 02:34:58.559
uh yeah, like I said,
hit us up when you're coming through New

2033
02:34:58.600 --> 02:35:03.200
York sometime you want to light up. Some stogies will be around and everyone

2034
02:35:03.239 --> 02:35:07.120
else out there. Have a nice
weekend and we will see you on Monday.

2035
02:35:07.399 --> 02:35:09.520
And RS, thank you, thank
you. Just saw your donation.

2036
02:35:09.600 --> 02:35:09.920
Thank you,