WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.040 Hey, folks, I just want to take a minute to ask you to 2 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:07.519 go in rate this podcast, let the Team House know how you think we're 3 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:11.119 doing. Go and rate us on whatever platform you're listening to this on, 4 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:16.320 whether it's iTunes or Spotify or whatever else. Those ratings really help us out, 5 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:19.480 and we really appreciate the feedback to let us know what you like and 6 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:23.559 what you don't like. And if you do like the Team House and you'd 7 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:26.760 like to support us, go check out our Patreon page and you can actually 8 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:32.000 support the stream and well as get access to our bonus segments and bonus episodes. 9 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:35.119 Yeah, if you're gonna give us a great review, please do. 10 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:37.320 And if you're going to give us another secret review, why don't you just 11 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:51.320 send us an email. We'll talk about special operations over ask me in the 12 00:00:51.359 --> 00:01:03.880 Team House with your hopes. Jack Murphy, David Pare Hey everyone, welcome 13 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.040 to episode two hundred and twenty eight of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy 14 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.920 here with David park. Our guest on tonight's show is Aaron Hale. Aaron 15 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:21.560 served in the as an explosive ordinance technician in Afghanistan. Severely severely injured but 16 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:26.560 made an incredible recovery. There's a lot to talk about here, and we're 17 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:29.280 just really pleased, really happy to have you on the show tonight. Aaron 18 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:36.439 Bosses lows, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me on. 19 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:40.400 Really pumped to be on the show. Thank you, man, Thank you, 20 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.079 appreciate you having you here. So you know, I will ask you 21 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:47.519 the first question that we ask all of our guests about your origin story, 22 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.319 if you can tell us a little bit about your up your upbringing and that 23 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:56.480 path that took you towards military service. Absolutely yeah. In fact, you 24 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:02.959 know, mine isn't one of the you know gung ho kids played soldier boy. 25 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:07.599 Yeah, as a kid and just knew his direction. In fact, 26 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:13.960 just the opposite. I was a Midwestern kid, loved my childhood adolescence, 27 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:23.840 had enough natural belevated talent to just skate by. So I was. I 28 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:30.120 was really an all American slacker, and you know, bes cs and the 29 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:37.520 rest bs. So when I got to college, everybody he knew how to 30 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:43.520 work, you know, quickly passed me by, and I soon find myself 31 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:50.000 out of my butt a whole lot of tuition, pissed away and really embarrassed 32 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:54.639 and trying to figure out what to do with my life. So one thing 33 00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:00.560 that I can do and have been doing for my whole life, is able 34 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.680 to you know, have this ability to just make decisions and act and go. 35 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.159 And I loved cooking, so you know, ever since I could reach 36 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.560 out of the counter, I loved. I love the culinary arts. I 37 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.479 decided, you know what, I'm going to going to hold another direction. 38 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:23.039 I'm going to go to culinary school. Except I need before I go to 39 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:29.599 another college, another university. And I tried first, I need those internal 40 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:36.120 you know, the internal values, the core skills at work, ethic, 41 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:40.120 ambition, all that kind of stuff, and you know, set and set 42 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:46.520 some goals for myself and be productive. And also I needed to earn some 43 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:53.680 more tuition money. So that's what I decided. The military was exactly what 44 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:59.639 could answer all of that for me. I joined the Navy in nineteen ninety 45 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:05.639 nine as a cook, and they gave me everything that I was looking for. 46 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:15.720 The early mornings, the fitness, the work ethic, and a whole 47 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:21.040 lot more. So that's that's what led me towards the military. It was 48 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:30.160 kind of failing up and I found that soon right after, right after basic 49 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.839 and the Navy's a school, cooking school I was in. I wasnt sure 50 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:42.319 duty in Italy, and I worked my way up to cooking for the commander 51 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:47.079 of the US sixth Fleet, three star, in charge of all the Navy 52 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:55.920 troops in the Mediterranean and Eastern Atlantic seaboard. And that was fantastic. Got 53 00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:01.399 to cook real food, got to tour around the a terranean in the flagship. 54 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:09.279 And that's not you know, those those six months westpack cruises. It's 55 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:14.439 three months or less, maybe one or two months. You hit three ports 56 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.879 in the Mediterranean, run up the flag you hit a you know, throw 57 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:21.319 a reception, and then scoot right back to Naples, Italy. Okay, 58 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:27.519 to Italy. But uh, what what was that like, Nathan? Like 59 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.720 some of the differences just as a Navy cook. I mean, it sounds 60 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.319 working your way up. I mean there must have been those times where you're 61 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:38.399 cooking up slop for hundreds of sailors on the ship, and then it sounds 62 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:42.240 like maybe you had this opportunity where you were cooking like restaurant style food later 63 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.480 on, you know, the truth is no, I never did that. 64 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:53.720 Okay, I'm spent four years in Italy, first duty station was actually barracks 65 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:58.240 duty. No kidding. They don't tell you this at a school, they 66 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.879 don't tell I think they used to switch the jobs around a little bit, 67 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:04.759 but they used to look at it like hotel restaurant management on the civilian side. 68 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:09.879 So I get off the plane, they tell me I'm working shore duty 69 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:14.920 instead of sea duty on board of ship, and uh, you know. 70 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:18.920 My sponsor met me at the airfield and I for one of the first questions 71 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:20.800 was where I'm not gonna be cooking. They're like, oh no, we 72 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:26.079 don't cook on on shorter at it And what do we do You're gonna be 73 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:30.199 because you're the FNG, You're gonna be night watch at the b b EQ 74 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:40.600 the desk, Yeah yeah. I worked my way up to like the officer 75 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:46.480 quarters front desk and then the maintenance department. So it was taking trouble called 76 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:55.959 tickets from the residents and walking them over to the public works, the local 77 00:06:56.040 --> 00:07:01.480 national Italians. The cool thing about that was I was I was escorting these 78 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.879 guys through the rooms and everywhere. I went almost to EJ colmost how do 79 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:09.920 you say this? How do you say that? And I was learning Italian 80 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:15.720 and drinking a ton of espresso in their office all day long. But the 81 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:20.360 funny thing was I was learning not Polatan Italian, which is about the furthest 82 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:26.560 thing you can get from book Italian, right right, and I was learning 83 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:33.839 it from these public works, roughnecks, electricians, plumbers. So anytime I 84 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:39.199 traveled, even off doing it, would do like MWR trips out to Rome, 85 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.759 Milan, that kind of stuff. I would try speaking the lingo because 86 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:47.000 I was actually enjoying my time there. Yeah, but you know, the 87 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.720 Italians would look at me, what are you doing? You must live in 88 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:58.920 Naples. It was. It was hilarious. Gave a quick shout out to 89 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:03.839 Augustus. I guess the Precious Metals, the sponsor for tonight's show. Text 90 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:07.439 team to six eight five to nine two or go to Augusta Precious Metals dot 91 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:13.800 com and we'll talk about them in a few minutes. Well please please can 92 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:18.240 tell you Aaron, sorry for the interruption. And so you had to fight 93 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.720 just to do your job in a sense, like you had to work your 94 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:26.040 way up to doing the job you wanted to do. Yeah, it's it's 95 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:30.279 what I really wanted to do at the time, at least, was cook. 96 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:37.960 Yeah, And instead I was wasted away at night at the night launch 97 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.679 and then no one's having fun hanging out with the Italians. But it wasn't 98 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:46.679 really know what you were looking for, you know. So, uh, 99 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:56.600 the base commander would sometimes throw parties literal receptions at his villa and ask for 100 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.639 cooks from the barracks to help cater the thing. So I would do, 101 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.799 would volunteer in my off time, and this was just to keep the skills 102 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:15.879 sharp, do some cooking somewhere, and when it was time to PCs it 103 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.039 just so happens about forty five minutes away in Guaya, Italy, there was 104 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:26.519 a billet open for flag duty and it was a special position which required letter 105 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.919 of reference the from you know, somebody higher up. And because I had 106 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:39.679 been working for the CEO and his wife, I got that letter and got 107 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.159 my foot in the door to cook for the admiral. And it's really cool 108 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:52.720 about cooking for flag flagships is that's often the the that wrung between you know, 109 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:58.960 the big, big blue Navy and places like Camp David and the White 110 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:05.200 House and even Air Force one. Uh, Eric, can you because you're 111 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.159 the first we've talked before about how hard cooks and the military work, but 112 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.759 you know, we've never actually had some many. Can you tell us a 113 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.200 little bit about the A school because the basic schools because one of the advantages 114 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:18.480 that people don't know about, and as a military, especially in the Navy, 115 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.159 because of the different mess decks that you can go on to very advanced 116 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.960 training and culinary arts. But can you tell us a little bit about the 117 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:30.200 A school? How long was it? And then like what types of things 118 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.200 did they cover? Over? Stuff? You know? In that school Navy 119 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:39.000 A school, there were two major areas of study, and I think it's 120 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:48.840 about ten weeks I think total, and eight of them were sanitation, don't 121 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:56.480 kill these seculars and the other two the other the other two weeks was how 122 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:03.240 to read and execute on the recipe cards. There it's like a publication, 123 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:09.399 like an Army reg on army publication on how to make food. There's a 124 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.519 recipe card for everything. If there isn't a recipe card, then it doesn't 125 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.440 exist and you shouldn't make it. And it was it was how to make 126 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:24.039 it perfectly bland. So everybody was pissed off, right right, that's amazing. 127 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:33.240 So I almost got myself in trouble by making guacamole not taste like well 128 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.519 making make it a taste like blacamole, right, So sort of the opposite 129 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.440 of like Hell's Kitchen or something like that, where everybody's tasting to be the 130 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:46.639 most bland and unoffensive as you can possibly be or inoffensive. Well, you 131 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:52.080 know, it's it's the training school for the Big Navy, and they want 132 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.000 to make sure that, like I said, the cooks don't kill the crew, 133 00:11:56.200 --> 00:12:01.039 right. So it really was how to make sure that everything about deva 134 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:07.879 sanitation standards and cleaning and food cooking temperatures, all that kind of stuff, 135 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.600 and there is really quite a bit of it. And then the rest of 136 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:16.399 it was just making sure you can follow instructions on a recipe. Car. 137 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:22.639 Yeah, then once you get out there, there really are a lot of 138 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:31.879 opportunities for chefs to advance into some like like incredible billets and take some really 139 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:37.200 cool schools. In fact, every year, I think there's a joint Joint 140 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:45.600 Services cooking competition and it's it's on the like Food Network and stuff like that, 141 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:50.080 so it's pretty cool. So when you took this billet at the flag 142 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:54.960 position, did they offer you advanced turning before you went or did you just 143 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.039 kind of go as as you were. I went straight there. Okay. 144 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:07.799 I did get some training during and I also I was in Italy. I 145 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:16.039 got the O JT type of training and off duty training just being in being 146 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.519 in one of the major centers of culinary arts Italy. The funny thing was 147 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:31.440 though that you would it's homeported there forward, homeported in guy to Italy. 148 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:35.440 So everybody just it's like a floating office most of the time. When it's 149 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:41.279 in port, and the Admiral goes in for breakfast, lunch and close a 150 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.600 business, everybody hangs up, the uniform goes back out into the economy. 151 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.519 I made breakfast at lunch, and then I was, I was, I 152 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.720 was. I was done by like two o'clock, fourteen hundred. I was 153 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:58.320 gone and clean up the kitchen. And but the one major rule was the 154 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:03.279 Admiral say, absolutely no Italian food. My American cooks are not allowed to 155 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.440 make Italian food while we're in port. Why would I have you guys cooked 156 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.960 that stuff when we're here, right, right, So I couldn't practice what 157 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.000 I've learned on him, right, you know, we get out to see 158 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:24.639 of course we had a we had all three actually four meals to practice on 159 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.919 the guy and the rest of the stad. So when you say four meals, 160 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:33.440 are you including like midnight rats and that is that the fourth meal for 161 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.960 people who aren't familiar with them. Yeah, yeah, we would do mid 162 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:43.759 rats because even you know everybody the ship runs. And that was the difference 163 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:48.240 between It's kind of the difference in flagships. You've got the ship's company with 164 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:54.480 the skipper the CEO, and that's one whole command, and then you've got 165 00:14:54.519 --> 00:15:03.279 the fleet command with the admiral and his that's a separate command altogether. So 166 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:11.279 it made for interesting rivalry sometimes being on the flag staff on board the ship 167 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:20.480 underway and they wouldn't be doing general quarters and something like that and running fire 168 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.799 drills, and I just kind of can I get by? I gotta get 169 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:30.919 come to, you know, officer country. But we had it was it 170 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:37.279 was a pretty incredible time and I learned quite a bit. And also it 171 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:41.720 was terrific having an especial machine on board. Yeah, it must have been 172 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:43.799 cool that, I mean, you were at that point exactly where you wanted 173 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:48.600 to be, doing exactly what you wanted to do. Actually, once I'd 174 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:54.840 reached I guess it was I guess it would say it was the pinnacle of 175 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:03.679 what being a cook in the Navy was going to offer me. I became 176 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:11.600 a little disenfranchised, became a little wrestless. Were I'd gotten those I'd gotten 177 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:17.039 those skills, that gotten those abilities, those core values that I'd come for. 178 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:23.080 I'd earned my earned the gi bill. Of course, now it's like 179 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.000 five years I was going to do the four now and it's already five six 180 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:30.679 years later. And I loved the Navy. I had salted my veins. 181 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:34.399 I love being at sea. I just h and I also loved cooking. 182 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:40.559 But it was something about being a Navy cook that just wasn't testing the skills. 183 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:44.039 It wasn't it wasn't it wasn't challenging me the way I wanted to be 184 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:48.799 challenged. Plus I actually did ninety nine Time of Peace. By the time 185 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:56.240 I had left the Admiral's command, we were two wars and we've been out 186 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.840 flood doing our figure rates and you know, in our body in the middle 187 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:07.960 of the Mediterranean and commanding you know, the navy. But I myself, 188 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.720 yes, all all of the jobs are important, every role business, you 189 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:18.960 know, necessary in the effort. But I was watching the war in Wars, 190 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:25.240 and I ran and Afghanistan on TV on the ship, and I just 191 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.119 I don't know it was there was something telling me I was not where I 192 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.519 needed to be. I wasn't I wasn't where I was supposed to be. 193 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:41.160 So when I got back to the United States, I volunteered to go as 194 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:49.440 an individual augment tee to a provincial reconstruction team in far Afghanistan. Of course 195 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.519 I'd still be cooking, but now I'm I would be right in the middle 196 00:17:53.559 --> 00:18:00.440 of it, right almost. We were way out west in Farra, south 197 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.480 of Parat. It was so so far in the middle of nowhere, in 198 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.759 the desert. Even the Taliban were like, you can have it, but 199 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:14.559 it was. It was. It was actually so quiet, there was nothing. 200 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.559 People were getting in trouble for being bored that kind of thing. But 201 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:23.920 I switched from cooking for the admiral and thirty five of his staff too, 202 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:32.680 like five six hundred ice AFT troops, Americans, Portuguese, Spanish, even 203 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.359 some Italian special forces down from Murat. So I got to practice some of 204 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:44.160 the lingo and trade firs more espresso. It was. It was fantastic. 205 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:49.319 It was a great experience and that's when I met some EOD technicians. Now 206 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.640 were they American? Were they Army? Were the Navy? Who were the 207 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:59.799 EOD techs that you met when you're out there? We trained up actually in 208 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.640 uh it was that was the funniest thing. A bunch of Navy and Air 209 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:12.920 Force components from all around the fleet, Cook's Admin, civil affairs all going 210 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:22.680 to Fort Bragg for a like slap together basic training to teach us how to 211 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:30.799 army and and that's when I met a few. I made a pair of 212 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.880 Navy EOD technicians and they helped us, you know, understand the UXO and 213 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.519 an ied threat that would be face we'd be facing out there or potentially if 214 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:49.359 we ever left a wire. And unfortunately, these guys were awesome. It 215 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:56.279 was a chief miracle and AO and poland did those guys were really really cool 216 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:02.359 dudes. But they switched out by the time we mated in theater, and 217 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:11.000 there was a few Air Force techs assigned to the farm, and those guys 218 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.640 rotated out, I don't know every three or four months, but it was 219 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.640 a little bit after. I mean, I'd already already learned what ud he 220 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.599 was about, but it wasn't until I've got to know these guys. And 221 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:29.400 I remember one day I was leaving the chow hall. I was heading back 222 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:34.880 towards the barracks area, and these Air Force techs had it just like dumped 223 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:41.240 out all of their gear to do maintenance checks on the everything, bombsuits, 224 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.519 the robots, all the other gear, testing batteries, making sure everything was 225 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:52.599 clean. And it was like a cool guy the yard sale. So I 226 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.519 when others struck up a conversation, learned, you know, just chatting away 227 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.759 and learning more about the job. You know, the tight knit brotherhood, 228 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:07.079 the technical aspect of the job. Yeah, the critical thinking skills it really 229 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:12.400 need. And the fact that their first responders on the battlefield, they're running 230 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:18.000 into the danger when everybody else is running away. Yeah, I mean everything 231 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.319 about it. It just collect in a place. And that's that's what I 232 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.400 knew I needed to do. So I put in a request with the Navy 233 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:33.119 to go from cook to bomb squad And what year was that it did? 234 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.440 It didn't go bre at all? Ye, No, they kicked it back, 235 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:45.720 said no, everything can be waived. Nobody wants to tell you my 236 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:51.759 my rank in that job was undermanned. So not only did they not want 237 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.440 me to leave cooking. I guess I'd like my cooking too much. No, 238 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.759 but they listen, we're going to promote me. Oh wow. So 239 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:06.799 when I returned from Afghanistan, my contract was about up. It was the 240 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:12.160 reenlistment. Or walked and I took my service record and what you know, 241 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:17.200 I walked and went over to the Army recruiter and told him what I wanted 242 00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:19.039 to do, and they welcome right in. They did you a little dirty 243 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:23.759 there, that's too bad. Yeah, it was a shame because I really 244 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.599 loved being the Navy. It was cool. Yeah, and you fell in 245 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.680 love with Navy EO D first, and we're totally ready to go do that. 246 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:34.960 Yeah. Yeah, Well, you know, at the same time, 247 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:41.000 not only was my job undergrand but it was a transition period for Navy EO 248 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.759 D as well. Back in the day, EOD wasn't even its own rate 249 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:52.519 like it's own MS. He was a qualification, especially of suffix, so 250 00:22:52.599 --> 00:23:00.279 you had to come from different source jobs, source rates, and you since 251 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:07.359 mate master to arms, you not cook. Yeah, so I had a 252 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:10.880 few things going against right, Yeah, Aaron, let me, I'm gonna 253 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.359 do another ad read here real quick, and then we jump back into the 254 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:19.519 interview again. I'm sorry for the interruption. Yeah. So, our sponsor 255 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:25.440 tonight show is august Of Precious Metals. You guys know what helps me sleep 256 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.519 well at night? It's physical gold. I know a lot of folks out 257 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.920 there are concerned about you know, where the economy is heading right now and 258 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.039 that it might take a dip. So I decided to learn more about gold 259 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.559 iras to help me diversify. Did you know that you can buy gold for 260 00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:42.480 your Ira in your four oh one K? Gold can't be tracked like digital 261 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.720 currency. No one has to know what you're buying, and there's no way 262 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.000 to print more of it. The best resource for gold iras is Augusta Precious 263 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.720 Metals. Their track record is no less than phenomenal. They have thousands of 264 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.240 happy customers and they're the absolute best. They're amazing at what they do. 265 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:03.319 Learn why thousands of Americas are getting gold iras as part of the retirement portfolios. 266 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.680 You need to contact Augusta Precious Metals and get their free guide. So 267 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:12.519 text Team to six eight five nine two Again text t e A M to 268 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:18.119 six eight five nine two, Team to six eight five nine two, or 269 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.759 go to Augusta Precious Metals dot com. That's Augusta Precious Metals dot com. 270 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:27.559 Thank you guys for supporting one of the sponsors of tonight's show. So back 271 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:32.240 to you, Aaron. So tell us about how you made that transition then 272 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:33.759 from I mean you talked a little bit. You took your service record down 273 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:37.279 to the Army recruiters and they were like, hey, good to go. 274 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:42.519 It wasn't it wasn't like a smooth pronuiziation. I took about half a year 275 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:49.920 off, left the service entirely, moved to New moved to Brooklyn, New 276 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.799 York really and where we're at, went to work. What we're in Brooklyn, 277 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.160 I was, I was looking for the most affordable. I was almost 278 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.000 out by Corney Island by the time I can find a place I can afford, 279 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:11.759 I think raves and yeah, anyway, so yeah, I was right 280 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:18.119 on Ocean Avenue and King's Highway, yep, about there. But I was 281 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:25.200 I was teaching builty in Lower Manhattan, so I'd take take the you know, 282 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:27.720 the subway in and I was working with a wadi of mind, teaching 283 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:36.079 computer applications to the corporate setting like City Group and stuff like that. Uh, 284 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:40.720 and Aaron, You're you're just one of those like what do they say, 285 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:42.680 like thesbians, like the type of personally and just like do anything. 286 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.079 What's up? Like the type of person I can just like like a jack 287 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:52.079 of all trades. Yeah yeah, or you know some people call that yeah 288 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:57.000 yeah, So how did you like he taught you how to use the applications 289 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:02.720 or you had been using those applications and then you turn around in like when 290 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.079 look, you know, I had a buddy, and it's it's not as 291 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:12.240 hard. I mean, I was teaching Excel to all the it was like 292 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:22.119 I was teaching the City way of formatting stuff that you know, there are 293 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.079 new hires which are all like all sixteen SAT scores in the entire room, 294 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:33.039 you know, so I was just teaching them how to put that particular type 295 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.319 of blue fade in the background and stuff like that. But the truth is, 296 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.440 well, when I was when I was teaching these things, you know, 297 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:44.319 you get Microsoft Project, Microsoft Office or anything like that, and they 298 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.880 somebody hires you to do a level one. You buy the Level one and 299 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.200 the Level two book, right, and you read it the day before and 300 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.480 it's pretty straightforward and you just regurgitate level one and by the end of the 301 00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.559 day, when you have a couple of minutes leftover, or somewhere in the 302 00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.720 middle of the day, you just throw out a couple of pointers from level 303 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:07.559 two and they think you know everything. If they teach you, if they 304 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.000 hire you for level one to level two, well you take a couple extra 305 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:14.960 days and then you of course you buy a level three buck and you do 306 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.279 the same thing. Right. So I learned it all on the fly and 307 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.680 it worked out pretty well. The only thing was it wasn't for me, 308 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.680 and I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to go with her, 309 00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.279 but it was I was pretty pissed off about not doing in the Navy. 310 00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:40.160 Took that little time off just uh, not shaving stuff or not. 311 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:45.799 You know, it grew out a nice beard. But then I decided, 312 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.400 you know, I was going to go go to that armor recruiter and get 313 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.519 back into the fight. Yeah. So you hadn't been on like the delayed 314 00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:00.599 entry program or anything. You were just taking like a person break, decompressing, 315 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:08.599 uh and teaching excel and whatnot. Yeah, my own personal own delayed 316 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:14.279 injury program, I guess. And you'll earn enough money to get buy in 317 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:18.160 New York. It was actually a pretty cool experience. Yeah, definitely a 318 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.279 learning experience, but I quickly got claustrophobic. I was used to wide open 319 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:30.599 seas, wide open deserts, wide open country of you know, the Midwest, 320 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:38.000 and even going for a run in Brooklyn. You know you gotta get 321 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.720 you go block stop, go block stop right, trip over or trash bag, 322 00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:48.000 you know, a dog or something. But you know, I went 323 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.680 to the owner recruiter and they welcome me in. I did do it was 324 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.720 it was like I didn't go to basic training or did this gentleman's course. 325 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:03.440 It was like a what was it like like a pilot program for prior service. 326 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.440 It was so funny. All these guys have been out for at least 327 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:17.039 different service or out of the army for at least three years. And because 328 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:22.559 it was it's all of the knowledge based stuff, none of the inductrination stuff, 329 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.720 you know, the dogma. So I got the knowledge I needed to 330 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:36.920 go soldier, and I got the uniform, but I still felt like a 331 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:44.519 sailor at heart. I felt like an inntial trader. Then after after transitioning 332 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:49.519 uniforms, learning some of the lingo, and I went to the EOD School 333 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:55.519 and that was pretty cool. I mean, you train together with all the 334 00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.599 branches, so we all learned the same language language anyways, and we're all 335 00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:07.240 you know, it's it's every branch comes together to teach the EOD techs the 336 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:14.960 exact same knowledge so that I could be paired up on the battlefield with an 337 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.039 Air Force tech, a Navy tech, a Marine tech, and we can 338 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.680 all do the job together without skipping a beat. There's no friction, no 339 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.839 lag time in understanding each other. We just know how to do the job. 340 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:33.279 And it also is great for actually when we have to do joint operations 341 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:40.519 and there's there's no cross branch rivalries or anything like that. Yeah, it 342 00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:44.240 did, no click type of things. We're all in the same EO D 343 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.759 family and I love it. Still are to get today. Yeah, so 344 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.200 can you tell us a little bit about the EO D School. How long 345 00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:56.720 was it? You know? I think that for a lot of us, 346 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:02.240 who you know, when we watch EO E stuff you know on TV in 347 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:04.720 a movie, if there's EOD person, they're always trying to defuse a bomb, 348 00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:10.440 but really a lot of times out in the field you're not diffusing like 349 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:14.160 you're pipping them or whatever. But can you tell us, like all the 350 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:18.640 things you learn, how long it was things like that. Yeah, I 351 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:23.720 went through I think each of the branches have their own individual Phase one. 352 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:30.480 And the Armies used to be at Redstone Arsenal Huntsville, Alabama. They moved 353 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:37.119 it to Fort Lee in Virginia. I went through Redstone and that's about ten 354 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:48.359 weeks of really the kindergarten of EOD and it's stuff like ordinance identification would kind 355 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.640 of what if it, what does it tell you if it has fins or 356 00:31:51.759 --> 00:32:00.559 a pin or a parachute, you know, different colors or what different colors 357 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:07.319 are marketing signify that kind of thing. Electronics basic, basic circuitry physics. 358 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.480 You know, the different forces at play if a thing is dropped, fired, 359 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:22.200 throne, buried, and how the different forces engage and activate, diffusing. 360 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:28.680 That's all there, and it's all actually very basic stuff to then dig 361 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:34.920 dig deep into. You know, the hundreds of thousands of different types of 362 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:42.960 munitions have been made domestically and abroad, and that's you know, when you 363 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:47.839 get to the joint school run by the Navy on Eglin Air Force Base here 364 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:55.160 in the Panhandle, you start right back from the beginning with electronics and basic 365 00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:00.920 physics. But you got a got a primer at your Phase one school and 366 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:06.839 then and then you know, we're all trained together and you can't take any 367 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:13.279 of the material out of the school. So your train you're studying all day 368 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:17.039 long. They learn all day long. There's about an hour or so mandatory 369 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:23.039 study hall right after and then you got to leave it all at the school 370 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:32.599 till the next day. There's there's a an exam or practical test on average 371 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:40.119 every two to three days, and the the nutrition rate in that school is 372 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:45.599 pretty high. Just knowledge based, there's there's definitely a physical component to it. 373 00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:50.680 You've got to be able to physically fit enough to wear that bomb suit, 374 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.079 and of course you got to go through the bomb suit test just to 375 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:58.640 get into the school, and it's like a like a PT test in the 376 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:04.160 bomb suit, of course. But then the real test comes when you know, 377 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:10.280 they start asking you basic cognition questions to see if while you're smoked you 378 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:16.079 can actually think, you still maintain your basic critical thinking skills. And that's 379 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:22.880 really what the test is about. That do you never quit and you can 380 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:27.320 you can keep your head on while you're huffing and puffing, and and then 381 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:34.440 it's about basic you know, pt maintenance while you get your skull crammed full 382 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:39.599 of knowledge on everything that goes boom, from bullets to weapons of mass destruction 383 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:45.960 and nukes. That's amazing. Do you do you recall how much that bomb 384 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:55.159 suit weighs? So do you recall how much the bomb suit wags? There 385 00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:00.639 are different models, and the latest model I think is somewhere ninety pounds with 386 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:09.199 the helmet. Yikes. Yeah, that's that's something else because it's not just 387 00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:14.719 ninety pounds that like you're carrying like on your back in a focused place, 388 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.519 like you have to be able to lift your legs under the pressure of the 389 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:21.719 side. Does it Does it feel like you're trying to you know, render 390 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:27.880 safe bombs like while you're underwater at that point? Duh? I don't know. 391 00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:31.480 The first few times, it was definitely very very alien, very foreign 392 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:39.079 being in this thing. And over time though practice it just don't think about 393 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:46.039 it. Yeah, bomb suit time right to get on and get and the 394 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:52.199 transition is it's pretty fast when you consider that what's in front of you is 395 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.400 it could possibly explore it and kill you. You don't think much about the 396 00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:04.760 bomb suit at all. I just put it on adapt And at this phase 397 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:08.159 when when you went through EO D school, what stage were like the robotics 398 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:13.679 at at that point as far as using the robots and the Johnny five model 399 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:17.760 to go out there and diffuse some of these things. Yeah, I went 400 00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:25.559 through this is I went through an OIY and this was just a few I 401 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:32.760 mean Iraq. You gonna consider, you know where we were in that timeline 402 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:43.280 of Iraq and Afghanistan and how slow you know, the trade doc and you 403 00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:47.400 know the other training branches and you know, the military aren't a really catch 404 00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:53.559 up to you know, the battlefield and we were. We weren't too bad 405 00:36:53.599 --> 00:37:00.239 about it, but all the same, remember, ordinances are bread butter, 406 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:07.119 it's in our name. And i EDS was actually still relatively new though it 407 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:15.719 was all over both battle fields mostly are rock at the time, but we 408 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:22.480 didn't have Actually i EEDS was only about two weeks of the forty three we're 409 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:30.960 Eglin Air Force Base. And that's for everything. There's really not a whole 410 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:36.239 lot to teach when it comes to I D S if you already know basic 411 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:42.280 circuitry from the early stages, because they want the thing about I mean, 412 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.679 there's there's, of course, lots lots of know about IDs, switches and 413 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:52.840 you know, fusing. But the thing is about IDs is that there's it's 414 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:59.920 it's made of anything and everything, and the limits to what how you can 415 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:07.280 make an ID is the only limit is the bombmaker's creativity. So how do 416 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:13.840 you how do you really teach a class on that except in basic you know, 417 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:19.519 the basics. So we learned a few of the most popular switches, 418 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:28.360 that kind of thing, we do remote renter save procedures or disruption procedures. 419 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:36.840 We learn different tools to engage these different IDs and robots. Wasn't really that 420 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:42.280 important. In fact, everybody at the schoolhouse knew that they'd get plenty of 421 00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:46.239 robot time once they got to their units. So maybe a few days out 422 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:52.719 of that week they would play, you know, to get let let the 423 00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.159 students go out there and play with the robots. And like you said, 424 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:00.039 the course was what forty three weeks long, but that's to teach the basics. 425 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:08.800 Yeah, yeah, the basic like basic laws of science, physics, 426 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:15.000 electronics, chemical analysis, that kind of thing we would have a few weeks 427 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:22.119 of because everything's broken up into different divisions from biochemical to weapons of amous destruction 428 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:31.119 nuclear air is what are the most dreaded, most dreaded divisions in the school. 429 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:38.559 And that's everything. That's everything that could be inside or inside an aircraft 430 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:45.920 or dropped from its wings or chaff flares, everything that has an explosive on 431 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:51.559 an aircraft. And that's think about it inside a cockpit, everything explodes from 432 00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:58.800 even there, from on the rocket rockets under their seats. The canopy explodes 433 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:06.599 before they even but you know, the pilot eject the even their harnesses have 434 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:14.440 explosives and that activated by sea saltwater, so ink that goes out. Think 435 00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:21.239 about what I want to do. Probably we're just saying that when you're talking 436 00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.360 about as far as the explosives and the harness, Dave was saying, is 437 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.400 that does that deploy like an ink so that they can be spotted or is 438 00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:31.960 that for their their like water wings like the life preserver that's a release them 439 00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:40.920 if they go unconscious. Yeah, yeah, so and even the ejection handle 440 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:47.840 that like starts all of the other stuff that's that's like a little shotgun shell 441 00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:55.320 that that it's like a primer that sets it all off. So imagine you're 442 00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:02.199 a student maybe halfway through the EO D School and you face this thing that 443 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:07.599 looks like a like a great big explosive cactus. You know that you're you're 444 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:15.000 about to go hug and everything has to do everything is remember your safeties. 445 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:20.039 Right. We have I think it's twenty six different safeties and we have to 446 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:27.519 remember and on a test forgetting one of the safeties. Each one of these 447 00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:32.239 tests, the minimum passing grade is an eighty five because you don't want to 448 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:42.400 see student in a bonus here and like a parachute, we're not sure if 449 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:51.880 we're taking the sea on this. Yeah, and any safety infractions is it's 450 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:58.199 an automatic sixteen point hit. Wow. So when you come up to an 451 00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:02.920 aircraft and you've got to render safe maybe the ejection seat because it had a 452 00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:09.960 quote unquote hard landing. You've got to pass everything that's mounted under the wing 453 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:17.320 of the aircraft and say, I'm recognizing heat, shock, friction, eject, 454 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:25.159 laser, emar, static, anything that might set that thing off for 455 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:30.360 every single piece of ordinance, and you can't miss any of them because each 456 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.000 one of those, each one of those safeties on each one of those pieces 457 00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:39.559 of ordinance is a sixteen portant hit and sometimes to render safe, say the 458 00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:47.280 like the gut eight alpha the gun on the A ten to render safe that 459 00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:53.000 thing, it's just sticking like a cutter pin in you know, a piece 460 00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:00.159 of the mechanics to render the safe the weapon, right, but you to 461 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:06.119 get past all that ordinance to get there, and it was, Uh, 462 00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:12.199 it's a pretty harrowing experience. It's pretty nerve wracking, but that's that's how 463 00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:17.360 you get Did you also get some extra love in the MOP four protective suit 464 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:27.039 during that course? Well, the that's in the eeds. Uh. The 465 00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:31.039 division part of that is the bomb suit test. And other than that though 466 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:39.039 you don't you'll put on a bomb suit for a known the hazard if you 467 00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:44.760 know what the hazard is, uh, and you you probably don't need the 468 00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:50.280 bomb suit. And imagine any time you're on deployment and you're on like dismount 469 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.920 of patrol, you know, like UD decks are going to carry that thing 470 00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:01.559 around until maybe they need it. So bomb suites are a tool for certain 471 00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:07.639 situations, certain places and time. But once you train how to use it 472 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.440 and when to know when you need it, then you move on to the 473 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:15.559 next division. Aaron, you know you you're talking a lot about render safe, 474 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.679 which I think is you know, it's what we normally think of when 475 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:25.719 we think of E O D. Right, finding something in a populated area, 476 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:31.840 or like you say, with the aircraft, uh, with you know, 477 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:37.119 with Afghanistan Iraq. Obviously we move on to this model of you know, 478 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:40.679 disposal actually like rendering or not rendering it, but like blowing it or 479 00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.360 whatever. Did you guys cover much about demolitions itself? Did you guys learn 480 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:51.320 how to place charges? You know a lot? Obviously you are already covering 481 00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:54.679 explosive theory, but were you getting the hands on practical like a demolitions you 482 00:44:54.719 --> 00:45:00.599 know, training in that also? Absolutely of course act part I mean, 483 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:08.199 the majority of our job is using explosives as a tool. So and I'm 484 00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:13.840 not just saying slap a couple of blocks of C four, make something to 485 00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:17.239 go away, bip, blowing place and you know, making something to go 486 00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:22.760 boom as sexy for the cameras. And of course of course we like blowing 487 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:31.119 stuff up. But but we also have explosive tools that I no kidding, 488 00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:38.880 I have. We have tools we can shoot a bomb with a bullet to 489 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.159 make it safer and never blew my mind first some I heard about that, 490 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:52.719 But we're using you know, specific charges to shear or cut or impinge a 491 00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:59.400 piece of diffusing or to cause it to low order rather than high order, 492 00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:06.719 to blow small rather than big, or to burn instead of explode. And 493 00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:13.440 yeah, we're we're like surgeons when it comes to explosives. And of course 494 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:22.159 there's plenty of times when we've had to dispose of just huge caches of ordinance 495 00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:25.519 and a lot of times they don't have using so there's no reason to render 496 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:29.840 and safe. They're already safe. They're just piles of explosives. We have 497 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:35.599 to make them go away. And well, we have specific procedures for where 498 00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:39.920 and how to place the you know, the shots and tie it all in 499 00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:47.199 with debt chord and primate and all of that, and it's all essential to 500 00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:52.159 making sure that it's done safely and you don't have to go back and do 501 00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:57.519 it a second time to clean up. I've I have had to go back 502 00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:04.440 on botched shots to go pick up blocks of C four that were punted into 503 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:12.320 the battle space just sitting there for the enemy to pick up. Or you 504 00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:17.639 know, something went boom and like maybe maybe somebody was trying to bring down 505 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:21.960 a mud hut. Instead, all they did was brought down part of a 506 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:27.320 mud hat on top of a whole bunch of on exploded blocks of C four 507 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.920 And then what do you do somebody else? You know, the army is 508 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:34.320 not going to want to sit around forever, as you know, pull brick 509 00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.360 by brick, But guess who wouldn't mind digging through the you know, the 510 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:44.719 mess to get at that explosive. So yeah, it's it's to be safe, 511 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:49.639 not just in the immediate future, you know immediate like like on the 512 00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.559 shot, but it's to be safe to make sure we're not leaving anything behind 513 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:58.199 for the enemy. So it almost sounds as though you're saying eighteen Charlie's were 514 00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:01.320 the bane of your existence. Well, we're jump we're jumping a few a 515 00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:10.960 few steps here. But I wasn't gonna say anything. Crams over castles, 516 00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:16.559 p for plenty. It doesn't always work, is that what you're saying. 517 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:30.440 I wasn't going to talk about the efforts at all. But that's hilarious. 518 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:36.519 So was there any part of you know, this forty three week of course 519 00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.320 you were just like blown away by that. You know, you're like, 520 00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:46.519 this is the coolest thing ever again, was there any part of the E 521 00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.800 O D Course that you were just absolutely blown away by where you're thinking, 522 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.119 like, this is the coolest thing ever. I never imagined I would see 523 00:48:54.119 --> 00:49:00.320 something like this. I don't know. I was so amped, I was 524 00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.599 so excited about the whole thing. Yeah, I was having I was actually 525 00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:08.440 having a really good time. It was hard, it was a challenge, 526 00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:13.639 and it was it was it was really what I was looking for, you 527 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:22.639 know. And I was around all these other people that were like alpha type 528 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:31.039 nerds that competitive, smart, wanted to take charge, and yeah, I 529 00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:36.000 was. I was. I was in this. This is an amazing crowd 530 00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:42.000 of people to be you know, these these warriors learning this amazing skill. 531 00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:49.880 So any one particular thing, I don't know, I get tired to pick 532 00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:57.079 one out. That's awesome. And so after you graduate from the course, 533 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.440 tell us about, you know, landing in your unit and what that was 534 00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:05.119 like and when you know, you came down in deployment orders sort of what 535 00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:10.400 the next stage was for you. After I graduated from Eyota School, I 536 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:17.119 went to Fort Drunk upstate, New York, and it was immediately put in 537 00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:28.400 a company that was on the nod of war and two nine ten tennis is 538 00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:36.840 when my company went to Iraq, I was a new eoity tech, but 539 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.000 I kept my rink from the Navy. So I went from petty Officer second 540 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:47.280 class to sergeant. And that was tough because as an NCO, I was 541 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:52.719 expected to get my team leader certification. And the team leaders, the guy 542 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:59.199 that actually gets into bombsuit makes that long walk, he's the most experienced, 543 00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:04.800 you know, the highest drinking guy on an EOD team. And some of 544 00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:12.079 these these you know privates had had come up through EOD from the beginning and 545 00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:19.880 had had far more badge experience than I did, you know, having been 546 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.119 a cook for my entire military career. So you know, there was a 547 00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:29.559 little resentment, but everybody understood it. I was I had just had to 548 00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:34.719 work twice as hard to get up to speed. I was the I was 549 00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:38.239 placed as a fourth man on a three man team when I went to Iraq, 550 00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:45.119 and it's kind of like tits on a bar. I was a team 551 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:50.320 sergeant that didn't need a sergeant, but I was there. I was learning 552 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.960 my team leader, the other sergeant on the team was teaching me as much 553 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:58.039 as he could, as fast as I could. I could you know, 554 00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:02.920 take it in. And I think my first sergeant recognized what was going on, 555 00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:08.880 so he pulled me from the team and he sent me to keep victory 556 00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:14.599 or liberty whatever, you know. I went, you know, right by 557 00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:22.119 buy Up and Baghdad, and I went to the higher level the Counter Explosive 558 00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:29.880 Exploitation Cell at Task Force Troy and that's the Joint id Operation Cell. That's 559 00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:35.760 where they take all of the the evidence collected from the teams off the battlefield 560 00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:43.280 and they they trulyage it and they examined it. So but they put me 561 00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:49.280 right in the triage they receiving area, and I would take these boxes of 562 00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:57.400 evidence, the evidence kits you baggies and boxes of tape and pressure plates and 563 00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:06.039 batteries and debt core samples of all sorts of stuff, and I would I 564 00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:14.039 would better package it for the next steps. Triash is really like if you 565 00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:19.679 think of role one, two three in the first aid on a battlefield, 566 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:25.519 we we just cleaned up the evidence samples and then send them off to the 567 00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:31.280 different departments like chemical analysis, by biometrics, electronics, that kind of thing. 568 00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:37.760 And from from there that and the storyboards would go to a t F 569 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:45.480 FBI D EA, D, I A and so on. So I got 570 00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:51.880 to learn exactly how you know, they wanted. They wanted to see the 571 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.800 evidence presented from the battle, you know, from the front. So when 572 00:53:54.840 --> 00:54:00.599 I actually did get my team litter certification had my own team, I knew 573 00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:06.760 how. I knew what the best way to present the evidence so that we 574 00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:10.960 could more quickly and more effectively get to the left of the bang. And 575 00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:15.360 you think, consider like, you know the timeline, you know, from 576 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:20.480 explosion backwards. You got the bomb placer, the bombmaker, and the bomb 577 00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:24.079 financer, all of those guys, and that's really what it was all about. 578 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:30.360 We want to get there before they get to bury it. So it 579 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:37.199 was an incredible learning experience and really handy when I finally did get my own 580 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:44.719 team in twenty eleven, I earned my team to those seprocation and was heading 581 00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:51.920 back to Afghanistan for my third deployment, second time as an EOD tech and 582 00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:58.679 second time in Afghanistan, but first as an EOD team. Later I went 583 00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:05.360 to we We were we were placed in support for CAV scouts out of Riley, 584 00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:10.920 and we just it was really busy, little west of Kandahart and a 585 00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:15.519 little town called a joy and he has to turp what that meant and he 586 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:20.679 goes, I think it means cemetery, and it really did. It felt 587 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:25.800 like I was in tombstone. I mean there's just IDs everywhere. I remember 588 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:30.960 hearing one guy say, uh, what we got there? It's like around 589 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:40.760 here, every step is a uh is a decision? M yeah, this 590 00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:45.639 is was This step is deliberate? What was this far enough along in the 591 00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:49.760 war. It's not just roadside I eeds, but it's also like as you 592 00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:53.559 approach to target, it's along trails. It becaming like increasingly intense, right 593 00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:02.320 absolutely, And we we had had we had all the crew systems and the 594 00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:05.760 you know, the armored trucks, and then of course we have to leave 595 00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:09.599 them all behind because everything's on dirt trails. So we have we have these 596 00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:15.440 metal detectors and those those guys, those uh you know, the privates that 597 00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.719 get the metal detectors and go pulling. I got a handle of those guys. 598 00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:24.679 They those guys have some balls. They are in their chops and uh 599 00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:31.920 that was amazing what they did. They had some spiky scents sometimes and they 600 00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:39.239 were also I would try try my best to educate and inform uh, these 601 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:45.880 these this component that I was supporting, my team was supporting while we were 602 00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:51.000 inside the wire the best I could. Any of those uh you know, 603 00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:57.639 uh red sheets with the new intel that come out for the area, I'd 604 00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:02.440 get that out. Anything we were seeing as a trend and maybe bondmaker's migration 605 00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:07.000 type patterns, anything like that. I wanted to train them up the best 606 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.800 I could and get them all the information they could, and even if it 607 00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:16.719 wasn't new information. I don't just teach them some of the skills of what 608 00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:22.519 to do if what to do if we were to run, or how to 609 00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:29.559 handle certain unitions and certain situations. I didn't want to give them license to 610 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:36.719 do EUD procedures, but we can't be everywhere once and if there's a dire 611 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.280 situation, I want to make sure they were prepared. What were some of 612 00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:46.159 the ways that EO D the texts were being used, because I know that 613 00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:50.639 a lot of times you guys were doing route clearance where you were ahead of 614 00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:53.960 an act of patrol, you know, the vehicular patrol. Were you also 615 00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:58.400 embedded in the wine squads as they would go out, Like, what were 616 00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:04.320 the different ways you guys were being utilized? We we did quite a few, 617 00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:06.960 quite a bit of age. We would go out, in fact, 618 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:13.480 where we were most of that time, we were actually the the cascouts were 619 00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:20.079 building up command outposts all over place, almost within visual distance of each other, 620 00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:30.119 just to deny the enemy any area, any terrain. So we we 621 00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:37.880 would walk behind the We had that was hilarious. We had the was it 622 00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:45.559 Puerto Rican National Guard engineers, you know, driving these the D two dozers, 623 00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:52.639 just cutting a road right through great great rows and poppy fields and marijuana 624 00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.880 fields, just digging a road straight through, and we'd walk right behind them, 625 00:58:55.960 --> 00:59:00.000 and then they would cut a two hundred and fifty meters by two hundred 626 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:07.079 fifty meter square and then we would set up our cots or whatever. We 627 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:12.760 just lay out there, and eventually HESCO barriers will go up around us. 628 00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:17.599 And the whole time we just in fact, most a lot of that time, 629 00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.480 the dozers did have to work for us. They would just turn up 630 00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:29.800 the soil and then all you know, vigial oil jugs just sitting there in 631 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:34.280 the open, and usually they kicked them around so much that they were already 632 00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:37.400 separated. We just had a place a charge on them, and debt made 633 00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:42.159 them so that was great. But then of course with all these dirt roads 634 00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:47.880 cut, there was a lot of soft soil left. And you know that 635 00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:55.199 Afghan dirt, it's got three different forms. It's got the hard packed concrete 636 00:59:55.320 --> 01:00:01.840 like dirt. When it rains it turns into that slicks not then just walking 637 01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:07.559 from your your hoot to the chowd hall you get six inches taller. And 638 01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:15.760 then it's got that baby powder moon dust. It's so easy to just you 639 01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:21.079 do. All you have to do is drop an ID and the dust cloud 640 01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:25.199 will settle right back down on it and bury it. So that was what 641 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:30.960 was happening, and the route clearest packages were losing a truck on average every 642 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:37.920 other day. Wow, So the mechanics were busy. We were busy doing 643 01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:44.039 post blast analysis. Most of the time it was just a post blast analysis 644 01:00:44.199 --> 01:00:49.519 on a vehicle. Thankfully sometimes it wasn't. So that's what we do. 645 01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:57.639 We were cleaning up all the IDs in the area and if we didn't get 646 01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:02.440 to the id left of the bang, well we do our best to analyze 647 01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:10.920 right at the bank. So can you for people who you know, I 648 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:15.320 mean, this is fascinating to me, but for people who don't have any 649 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.239 idea of like how EO D operates, Like, so you go out there 650 01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:23.800 and one of the point guys on point see something suspicious, how do you 651 01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:30.320 proceed from there? Well, of course we'll We'll come up on who whomever 652 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:35.400 is the closest you know on the scene. We'll make sure that everybody knows 653 01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:39.280 they keep good distance from any suspect item, and then we'll ask all the 654 01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:46.960 information that we can, whether it's you know, some local or if it's 655 01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:51.360 when somebody in our element, we'll ask him as much information we can. 656 01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:53.960 We haven't pointed out from where we're standing, if it's not too close, 657 01:01:54.480 --> 01:02:00.840 and we'll get as much information as possibly can. Then we'll make sure that 658 01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:07.159 everybody's in a safe standoff distance and setting a cordwn around the area, making 659 01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:14.800 sure that we don't get any surprises while I'm focused in on the suspect item 660 01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:21.199 and everybody else's eyes are facing out, and then my team and I will 661 01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:27.760 just get to work if if we do find it that it's an ied and 662 01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:34.519 here's the thing, if it's an unknown hazard or number one approach, Our 663 01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:39.280 first approach was always either a bomb suit or a robot, and since most 664 01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:44.400 of the time we're on foot patrols. This amount of patrols, a lot 665 01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:50.760 of our guys would be carrying one of those man portable robots. So let 666 01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:54.679 send the robot down more often than not, you know, it would turn 667 01:02:55.320 --> 01:03:00.960 a little corner of one of those three foot thick your mud huts and that 668 01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:06.840 would be the end of the robot. Uh, just new signal whatsoever. 669 01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:16.480 But that technology got a lot better. But then it was a it was 670 01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:24.039 me doing a I e ed you know, me walking down on the id 671 01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:32.599 and also rescuing a robot. But then it was it was doing whatever remote 672 01:03:34.519 --> 01:03:42.039 uh procedures I could possibly do if it if it was separating almost everything, 673 01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:46.440 I'm gonna talk about ninety eight percent of the stuff we ran on not deployment. 674 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:52.800 It was an oil jug with homemade explosive nine volte battery, pressure plate 675 01:03:53.639 --> 01:04:00.320 with your just you know, a particle board or I would and then it 676 01:04:01.400 --> 01:04:09.519 all connected with lamp cord. Super simple, super low tech and really really 677 01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:14.639 hard to detect except for the nine bold battery because there's almost no metal there. 678 01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:21.519 And the talent band, the insurgents, they didn't know this magic wand 679 01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:28.159 we swung you know what the magic was that found all of their IDs. 680 01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:32.239 But somehow they learned that we were finding the batteries. They didn't know why. 681 01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:40.280 But what they learned how to do was give They did a little standoff. 682 01:04:41.480 --> 01:04:44.440 They fair they would they would fair lead the battery so they'd get a 683 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:49.519 little more lamp court and run the battery around the corner so or it just 684 01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:56.400 run it off the side of the the trail, and right in the middle 685 01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:03.159 of the trail was the ID. It's almost no metal, and that was 686 01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:09.960 what was getting a lot of us, thank goodness. Maybe after say twenty 687 01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:14.119 four hours, the dirt would start to settle and it would start to get 688 01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:17.480 concave a little bit, so it began to show telltale signs of something to 689 01:05:17.559 --> 01:05:23.000 be buried there, and then there'd be this little concave ant trail going off 690 01:05:23.039 --> 01:05:27.880 the side of the road. But sometimes it was just pressure than that, 691 01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:32.239 and it's really hard to phone, I think, and you can correct me 692 01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:36.199 if I'm wrong, but I think they started doing that with their cell phone 693 01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:41.280 switches too, that once they learned about the jammers, they started experiment to 694 01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:45.320 find out how far out of like the jammers range the cell phone needed to 695 01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:50.119 be, and then it would connect the circuit back into the explosive that was 696 01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:57.599 within the range. M Yeah, well in Iraq especially, they were far 697 01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:01.039 more sophisticated with their id is. I think I think I might have run 698 01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:10.400 one electronically controlled device in Afghanistan that whole deployment. Granted I only got to 699 01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:14.760 spend eight months of the twelve months there, but I wasn't I was going 700 01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:19.400 to find too many electronic devices. Yeah, even in my last few months. 701 01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:26.159 But I some knuckleheads because I told you, they don't know the magic 702 01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:30.760 we were using to find those batteries, so they would they would connect the 703 01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:34.199 same kind of circuits whatever they could the explosives they could find. Most of 704 01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:38.800 the time it was the oil job with homemade explosive. Sometimes it was a 705 01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:45.760 pair. One time it was a pair of eighty millimeter Chinese mortars which are 706 01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:51.079 encased in iron. So it was buried right in the middle of the goat 707 01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:55.760 trail. The you know this dirt trail with the pressure plate right on top, 708 01:06:56.360 --> 01:07:00.760 but it was pinging off the metal detector like crazy, and like what's 709 01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:04.360 going on here? And you can still see that trail leading off to the 710 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:12.559 battery around the corner, like you guys come on. Yeah, so sometimes 711 01:07:13.639 --> 01:07:18.679 we didn't find them. M find until you know, with our metal detectors 712 01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:21.400 and so something. A lot of times you even find up with a freet 713 01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:30.920 find him with what oh with the feet? Yeah, like like I did 714 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:35.000 eight months into it. Yeah, you do you want to, you know, 715 01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:39.840 if it's okay with you telling us about or that incident and how that 716 01:07:39.880 --> 01:07:46.760 went down. Of course, it was about eight eight and a half months 717 01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:53.199 into the deployment and we were starting to see the you know, the end 718 01:07:53.239 --> 01:07:58.360 of the end of the road. With this deployment, most of the guys 719 01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:01.559 had gone on their you know that two weeks of R and R, and 720 01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:05.320 I let my whole team and most of the company go before me. I 721 01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:10.039 waited till the end, one of the last guys in the company to go 722 01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:15.920 do my two weeks of R and R because it was Thanksgiving and my firstborn's 723 01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:21.279 first birthday. I only had a few weeks with him before I deployed, 724 01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:28.239 and I got to go home see him turn one, got to see the 725 01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:32.359 whole family for Thanksgiving, gather around the table. It was a pretty fantastic 726 01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:38.159 I call it my my last page in the photo album. And then I 727 01:08:38.199 --> 01:08:42.079 got back on the battlefield. My team picked me up in my armored truck 728 01:08:42.279 --> 01:08:46.119 from Candaharn. We jumped in a supply convoy to head back out to see 729 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:50.119 a joy And I wasn't weren't on duty or anything, and I didn't even 730 01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:57.039 reported back to the cop command outpost. But we were there. We were 731 01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:02.960 in the convoy and there was something found inside. Would so you know that 732 01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:06.199 we set up that quote on They asked me to get to work, and 733 01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:12.039 of course, why wait for QR REF when I'm right here that would be 734 01:09:12.039 --> 01:09:18.479 a deck of This ain't my AEO. But I threw the luggage off of 735 01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:23.479 the robot. Robot out of the truck. It got to work. It 736 01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:29.279 found a pressure play with a jug and it pulled the pressure plate away and 737 01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:32.560 separate the components, so we're essentially rendered safe. But it couldn't get the 738 01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:39.479 jug out of the hard pattern dirt, and I wanted my evidence. If 739 01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:43.239 I could do it safely, then that's what I would dirt. So I 740 01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:46.960 grab my evidence kit and my bottle of the detector and I jumped out of 741 01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:51.680 the truck and I started making my way towards it. No bomb suit because 742 01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:57.159 it's a it's a known hazard. It was rendered safe. There's no sense 743 01:09:57.359 --> 01:10:00.199 and getting in the bomb suit, and I'm not going to suit up for 744 01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:06.920 every unknown hazard that might be out there. That would be silly. But 745 01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:15.039 about twenty or thirty meters from the original device, there just happened to be 746 01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:19.880 a secondary device that hadn't been detected until my metal detector was trying to tell 747 01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:27.319 me something really important. And that's when I got punted. The lights went 748 01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:30.239 out. I kind of kicked into the air, landed on my knees and 749 01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:39.159 elbows. I was still conscious. I couldn't see anything. It seriously rung 750 01:10:39.319 --> 01:10:43.520 my bell and I had like a gong was going off my head, and 751 01:10:43.600 --> 01:10:47.199 I thought that my helmet had gotten pushed over my face. That's why I 752 01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:53.239 couldn't see. The first thing I did was warded all the fingers and toes 753 01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:58.960 and knees and elbows and make sure everything was where I left it. And 754 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:06.159 while it's more or less I could taste like explosive and dirved, and maybe 755 01:11:06.159 --> 01:11:10.960 I was crunching on my own teeth. I don't know. It tastes that 756 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:15.680 the crap, but I was more or less intact, except I just gotta, 757 01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:17.800 you know, move my helmet back and place and get back in the 758 01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:25.079 fight. So and I went to grab my helmet to find that it was 759 01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:30.640 gone. Oh wow. Yeah. That's when I thought, Shit, a 760 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:39.039 first sergeant's going to kill me for losing nothing but stuff that goes through your 761 01:11:39.039 --> 01:11:44.600 head, right, Actually, somebody, somebody asked me, what's the first 762 01:11:44.600 --> 01:11:48.920 thing that went through your head when that explosion happened. I said, over 763 01:11:49.000 --> 01:12:00.680 pressure. But I did realize at that moment that something was really wrong. 764 01:12:00.920 --> 01:12:08.079 I'm taking it, taking some damage. I knew that the first thing that's 765 01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:11.680 going to happen because the training is still kicked in. I don't know how 766 01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:16.479 lucid I was, but I was thinking, okay, complex ambush. Are 767 01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:20.439 they gonna start taking pot shots? Are they gonna start attacking with small arms? 768 01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:27.239 Is everybody in that security court on now looking directly inside at me? 769 01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:32.159 Is in my team? They knew what they're supposed to do when a team 770 01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:35.920 later gets injured. They're going to clear a safe path for the medics to 771 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:45.520 come get me out. And I decided I didn't want my team and potentially 772 01:12:45.520 --> 01:12:49.479 hazard a situation. So I started up and I started making my way back 773 01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:54.399 towards the truck well the problem as I couldn't see. I had no idea 774 01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:57.920 where that damn truck was anymore. So I'm just doing this zombie walk across 775 01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:02.039 the battlefield, probably making it worse for my my team to get me. 776 01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:09.840 But they grabbed me, dragged me back to safety, and the medic starts 777 01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:13.640 comes running up, huffing and puffing because he's coming from like three hundred meters 778 01:13:13.640 --> 01:13:17.680 away. The first thing he does is complaining about making him run. I'm 779 01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:23.800 like, sorry to ruin your day, dude, but you know that's yeah, 780 01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:27.159 warriors and you know, joking with each other. It See, the 781 01:13:27.159 --> 01:13:30.640 same time I asked my team, I housed my face and somebody said, 782 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:35.000 well, you're not gonna do any modeling when you get out. But you 783 01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:41.199 know the medevac chapter. Remember we're just out of Candahar. So medivac came 784 01:13:41.239 --> 01:13:46.039 in fourteen minutes and within forty eight hours, I was in well to read. 785 01:13:46.279 --> 01:13:53.800 But as to Maryland, it's in that hospital. But and was that 786 01:13:53.880 --> 01:13:57.359 about the time that you realized, you know what the extent of your injuries 787 01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:02.479 were kind of a whirlwind, you know, I was. I was, 788 01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:06.920 of course i'd received TBI. I actually would have made it back to the 789 01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:12.119 States even faster, but they helped me for twenty four hours in landstool just 790 01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:15.319 to let the swelling go down so I can do the cress across the Atlantic 791 01:14:15.359 --> 01:14:23.159 flight. But it was it was you know, hoses and tubes and nurses, 792 01:14:23.239 --> 01:14:31.600 doctors, admin staff and paperwork, and thankfully I was glad to have 793 01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:38.279 an excuse not to write anything because I couldn't see people coming and going, 794 01:14:38.319 --> 01:14:42.960 and of course are on the belt Way and there's like elected officials and dignitaries, 795 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:47.520 a veteran service organizations with people coming and going. And also I learned 796 01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:54.680 something new that when when you have one hundred percent blindness, you get the 797 01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:59.279 added bonus of a sleep disorder because you can't reset your Cicadian rhythm to some 798 01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:03.840 light. So I was wide awake every night trying to figure out why I 799 01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:11.159 wasn't sleeping, and zombie during the day, just hoping somebody would like lock 800 01:15:11.239 --> 01:15:15.560 my door, leave me a loan so I could fall asleep. But eventually, 801 01:15:16.279 --> 01:15:24.359 you know, I started thinking about in my situation and the fact that 802 01:15:24.600 --> 01:15:28.119 you know, the doctors tried to save one of my eyes. The blasted 803 01:15:28.439 --> 01:15:34.199 take completely taken one of my eyes, my right eye, and actually fused 804 01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:39.680 my eyelids together, so I had this permanent rink and a gutten thing going 805 01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:45.119 on. But the blast and there was a piece of frag that cut right 806 01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:49.399 across the bridge of my nose and gashed the other eyeball. They tried to 807 01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:56.880 save it, but it was an og and the blasted I also blown up 808 01:15:56.880 --> 01:16:00.800 both my ear drums, though I could still hear, it was just less. 809 01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:08.199 And the blasted also cracked my skull, suppose leading spinal fluid right through 810 01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:14.000 my sinuses, not my notes. They did what they could for the burns 811 01:16:14.039 --> 01:16:19.960 and the scrapes and my eyes. They too took a piece of my septum 812 01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:26.840 and patched the cracks and my skull, though we'd find out a couple of 813 01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:33.239 years later that it was never completely patched. That's all they could really do, 814 01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:36.600 and I would have to learn how to be a blind guy for the 815 01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:48.159 rest of my life. So that's that's what I did. After after you 816 01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:54.439 checking out of all to read four or five weeks later. There's some things 817 01:16:54.439 --> 01:17:01.039 who Tampa to the VA hospital there just for some scans and TBI had my 818 01:17:01.159 --> 01:17:06.800 old moderate TBI. But then it was to the VA Hospital in Augusta, 819 01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:13.520 Georgia, where they've got one of the blind of rehabilitation units in the VA. 820 01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:16.199 You know, the VA's got i think fourteen up them around the country. 821 01:17:16.439 --> 01:17:24.000 And that's where I'd spend about six months learning how to use my accessibility 822 01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:30.279 tools like talking computer and Texas speech software on my phone and barcode scanner for 823 01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:35.479 the you know, anything in the pantry, and of course that white cane, 824 01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:46.359 the long cane for navigating. And you would be surprised things like learning 825 01:17:46.359 --> 01:17:53.279 how to pair your socks and how much, how to how to gauge how 826 01:17:53.359 --> 01:18:00.359 much toothpicks to put on your brush. The thing was when I was still 827 01:18:00.359 --> 01:18:04.039 sitting at the hospital bed in Walter Read and I was pissed, man, 828 01:18:04.600 --> 01:18:11.520 these low tech cave man. I was so mad that they got me with 829 01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:15.520 that there. You know, we've been so highly trained. It was the 830 01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:21.520 best fighting force on the planet in history and this and I was mad at 831 01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:26.399 my I was mad at the army for some reason. I was mad at 832 01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:29.399 the President, I was I was mad at everybody I was. I don't 833 01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:31.960 know why. I was mad at some people, but they deserved it. 834 01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:39.680 I don't know why. Actually, you know, mostly mad at myself, 835 01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:46.359 right, Yeah, but uh, it was it was always asking those questions, 836 01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:50.680 right, the winkies, the what if? What if? What if 837 01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:56.720 I'd done a differently, taking a different route, approaching the idea? What 838 01:18:56.760 --> 01:19:00.079 if I set the robot out again? What if I if? And why? 839 01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:03.560 Why me? Why? Why did this happen on that I wasn't even 840 01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.640 supposed to run that incident? I supposed to just had, you know, 841 01:19:08.359 --> 01:19:12.880 all these questions, what is this happening to me? Yeah? Why my 842 01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:15.920 eyes? Why? Why would why didn't they just take a leg or something? 843 01:19:16.079 --> 01:19:18.000 I mean, it was buried on the ground. Why didn't you? 844 01:19:18.279 --> 01:19:25.760 I was virtually untouched from my neck down, almost not a scrape. I 845 01:19:25.760 --> 01:19:31.640 don't even know how that happened? But why? And like I couldn't nobody 846 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:35.039 can answer. I couldn't answer any of those questions. It's it's they're impossible 847 01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:39.359 to answer, and then it just leads to that downward spiral. Right, 848 01:19:39.479 --> 01:19:45.000 So I had to change my questions, and it was thinkness, my family, 849 01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:50.000 the military training, you know, all that resilience training, that welcome 850 01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:58.840 to the suck in Afghanistan, Embrace the suck. The type of mentality you're 851 01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:03.600 here, so you better do your best at it, right? And I'm 852 01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:09.399 there in Walter reed, and I'm not They only won in that hospital that's 853 01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:14.520 injured doing a whole bunch of Joe's and James in there that we're all fighting 854 01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:19.680 their own battles. These warriors weren't quitting. Was I to say that I 855 01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:30.279 had my monopoly on pain or shitty days? Right? So do I really 856 01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:33.119 have a good excuse to quit? And what am I going to do other 857 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:36.720 than just sit here? I better get to work, to get busy doing 858 01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:42.840 something if I'm not going to allow myself to just piss and moan all day. 859 01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:45.000 So I decided if I was going to be blind, I was going 860 01:20:45.079 --> 01:20:49.880 to be at the best, best damn blind guy I could be there. 861 01:20:51.439 --> 01:20:56.439 I'm sorry, I just curious. Was this all, you know? With 862 01:20:56.479 --> 01:21:00.920 the anger and the and the the non official questions that you were asking yourself. 863 01:21:02.439 --> 01:21:08.880 Was there a particular moment or reason that you sort of turned around. 864 01:21:11.199 --> 01:21:15.319 I'd say it was incremental, but it was definitely, Yeah, it was. 865 01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:19.279 It was definitely at one moment. I'd love to it really paints a 866 01:21:19.279 --> 01:21:26.000 great picture. And I didn't mention this, but when I was home on 867 01:21:26.159 --> 01:21:31.560 our and our just two weeks before. Uh you know, I I was 868 01:21:31.640 --> 01:21:39.840 visiting family in the DC area, and I'd gotten word that another team leader 869 01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:44.079 in my company, a friend of mine, Kyle Vickers, had gotten injured. 870 01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:48.159 Well, we were right there, so I'd hurried over to Walter read. 871 01:21:48.920 --> 01:21:54.079 We got right to the unit and we get to the nurse the station 872 01:21:54.199 --> 01:21:59.039 found out that he hadn't even gotten out of my cu yet. So we're 873 01:21:59.079 --> 01:22:04.439 the first ones there that knew him. And of course I wouldn't tell us 874 01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:12.159 anything about his injuries confidentiality, but they said. One of the nurses to 875 01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:13.960 said, well, you can go wait in his room. He should be 876 01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:19.399 out any minute now. So I went to his room and saw his bed 877 01:22:19.520 --> 01:22:25.640 was just waiting for him, and right beside his bed was a pile of 878 01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:30.039 clothes and you know, one of those veterans organizations then no profits come with 879 01:22:30.159 --> 01:22:35.159 you shorts, sweats, T shirts. I didn't. On top of this 880 01:22:35.199 --> 01:22:41.520 neatly folded pilot was one shoot, okay, yeah, I don't have to 881 01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:45.960 be rocket scientists, all right. So then kind of gets wheeled in and 882 01:22:46.760 --> 01:22:50.840 there he is, and then gurney under the sheet. You can definitely tell 883 01:22:51.000 --> 01:23:00.479 there's only one leg, and he he sees me, and he's got a 884 01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:05.800 terrific personality, but I think it was assisted by dynastysa. You see this 885 01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:11.520 huge smile as he goes, hell, dude, what are you doing here? 886 01:23:14.239 --> 01:23:15.520 It might must have been a surprise because the last time we saw me, 887 01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:21.840 I was in Afghanistan with him. He kind of looks at me conspiratorially 888 01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:29.399 and whispers, man, I think I kicked myself in the face, and 889 01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:32.119 the worst thing you can say about it that day was that it ruined a 890 01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:44.199 terrible calf tattoo. Two weeks later, I'm right down the hallway from him, 891 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:49.560 jeez, and I'm in a really really bad mood. Yeah. Kyle 892 01:23:49.800 --> 01:23:55.520 comes wheeling into my room one of the one day, maybe two or three 893 01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:59.960 days after I've been there, arrived, and he goes, heil, Man, 894 01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:03.279 give me your hand. You gotta feel this. I'm like, okay, 895 01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:09.560 I'm not playing that game. You know, I don't know. I'm 896 01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:19.199 way too suspicious. Joke right, touch this right, So he grabs my 897 01:24:19.319 --> 01:24:25.000 wrist, he puts it up under his chin, and I feel this, 898 01:24:26.479 --> 01:24:30.720 you know, stubble. He's like two weeks of growth, my man, 899 01:24:30.560 --> 01:24:35.359 apparently, and is another one of those conspiratorial things, right, he's and 900 01:24:35.439 --> 01:24:41.079 I can I can hear him smiling as he's like. You know, the 901 01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:46.039 Marine uity texts they've got this Leason guy. Uh here, Walter Reid. 902 01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:50.960 So when they get out of surgery, the first thing the guy asks asks 903 01:24:51.239 --> 01:24:57.399 is how are you feeling? If the marine says he's feeling fine, which 904 01:24:57.479 --> 01:25:01.479 every marine supposed to, he the guy, the liaison guy hands him a 905 01:25:01.560 --> 01:25:06.520 razor and says it great, get back into riggs. We don't have that 906 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:14.159 liaison in the army, so grow your beard out. It's driving the marine 907 01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:17.960 text crazy and I couldn't. I couldn't help it. You know, I 908 01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:21.520 had to crack a smile. You know, I'm sitting there going going that 909 01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:28.239 downward, you know, spiral of defeat, and it was me beating myself 910 01:25:28.239 --> 01:25:34.359 down and thankfully Kyle full Bay out of him. But you know, he's 911 01:25:34.439 --> 01:25:39.880 here, he's he's gonna have one leg for the rest of his life. 912 01:25:40.119 --> 01:25:44.640 He's gonna have to deal with that. And I learned about about his incident 913 01:25:44.800 --> 01:25:53.159 later, and that's a whole other story. But he he was here cracking 914 01:25:53.239 --> 01:25:59.039 jokes and playing games with the marine eority tacks and he was making the best 915 01:25:59.079 --> 01:26:01.960 of it, and I had to snap out of it. I had to 916 01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:05.119 get on his level, or at least come close to it, And I 917 01:26:05.159 --> 01:26:09.960 had to get I had to get busy instead of just sitting there moping. 918 01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:15.800 Thank goodness for him and those other warriors guys. That was it was definitely 919 01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:20.039 a tough time. Yeah, what form did that take for you? I 920 01:26:20.439 --> 01:26:25.800 as far as getting busy, you know, get put throwing yourself at something, 921 01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:30.159 and of course learning to to you know, live with these injuries or 922 01:26:30.199 --> 01:26:34.600 live around them in a sense. Right, How how did that sort of 923 01:26:35.319 --> 01:26:41.600 how did that progress take place for you? Well, you know, frankly, 924 01:26:41.600 --> 01:26:45.000 there wasn't really much for me to do at Walter Read except you know, 925 01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:50.880 sitting in the hospital bed and get healthier eventually. Yeah. I mean, 926 01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:57.399 like I said, I was just hit in the head and thankfully, 927 01:26:57.479 --> 01:27:02.000 you know, we hail boys are really thick skulled. It was the perfect 928 01:27:02.039 --> 01:27:08.920 place to hit me. But I was perfectly ambulatory. I could get up, 929 01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:12.119 I would walk around, and they gave me a cane. I really 930 01:27:12.119 --> 01:27:15.880 didn't know how to use it. It was mostly just a sign for other 931 01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:19.079 people to let them know I wasn't getting out of their way, right, 932 01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:25.560 but you know, I had I had my family in town, my mom 933 01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:30.279 from Ohio, my dad from California. My aunt actually is in the DC 934 01:27:30.479 --> 01:27:36.039 area, so we kind of I would check out in the afternoon from the 935 01:27:36.039 --> 01:27:42.520 hospital when the staff, yeah, when the regular doctor's staff left, and 936 01:27:42.720 --> 01:27:45.399 I would go have dinner at my aunt's house with my family, would go 937 01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:48.479 out to eat stuffing like that. Oh. Man, I went to a 938 01:27:48.520 --> 01:27:57.039 David Buster's. That was a mistake. Man, blind and overwhelmed right off 939 01:27:57.039 --> 01:28:00.439 the battlefield and all those you know, ourcade sounds, It's like I have 940 01:28:00.520 --> 01:28:10.119 to leave. Other than that, it was just about they really couldn't do 941 01:28:10.199 --> 01:28:14.640 much for me. They were leading the way in prosthetics, but I didn't 942 01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:18.520 need any. So as soon as I was healthy enough to leave the hospital, 943 01:28:20.039 --> 01:28:25.640 I went to Augusta and I started learning what I could learn, and 944 01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:30.319 that was I just threw myself into this whole learning how to be blind. 945 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:36.399 And as soon as I got my iPhone with a voice over the text to 946 01:28:36.479 --> 01:28:43.399 speech software and I learned how to search things on the internet. Man, 947 01:28:43.479 --> 01:28:50.159 I was pumping blind keyword in plus outdoors plus hiking, climbing, running, 948 01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:56.520 whatever, and trying to figure out how because I'm not the first blind guy 949 01:28:56.520 --> 01:28:59.600 in the world. How how do people live? How do people do things? 950 01:29:00.199 --> 01:29:03.279 And you know, there was a couple of couple of names that kept 951 01:29:03.279 --> 01:29:09.199 popping up. One was Eric Windmer. He's the first blind person to climb 952 01:29:09.239 --> 01:29:13.000 Mount Everest. I thought, Dan, if if he can do that, 953 01:29:13.119 --> 01:29:16.640 I could climb a mountain. So I looked him up and I want to 954 01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:23.000 mountain climbing with him. And there was a guy named Lonnie Bedwell, another 955 01:29:23.079 --> 01:29:27.840 Navy guy, though he didn't go blind in the service. He was Turkey 956 01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:35.159 Hunt of thinking says his body Dick, she need him. And Lonnie, 957 01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:43.439 Lonnie's the first blind person to kayak the entire Grand canad So I looked him 958 01:29:43.520 --> 01:29:45.880 up and I want kind of kick with him. We did sections the Yellowstone. 959 01:29:46.319 --> 01:29:49.199 It was amazing, and you know what I mean, I was, 960 01:29:49.239 --> 01:29:53.920 I was like it was a It was a Army ranger, Ivan Castro. 961 01:29:54.479 --> 01:29:59.920 It was right at Bragg's Special Operations recruiting brands. He stayed on active duty, 962 01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:05.920 like Captain Scott Smiley active duty blind guys. They were working in more 963 01:30:05.960 --> 01:30:12.199 administrative roles, but they kept the uniform on. I gave Ivan a call 964 01:30:12.319 --> 01:30:15.720 one day and that was hilarious. He is a way of turning the whole 965 01:30:15.720 --> 01:30:21.199 conversations into the Evan show. But it's a great guy. He said. 966 01:30:21.199 --> 01:30:27.000 He made we did a point every year to run the Air Force Marathon, 967 01:30:27.199 --> 01:30:30.680 the Army ten miler and the Marine Corps Marathon. And I thought, oh, 968 01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:34.119 that sounds like a great idea. So I've registered for all three of 969 01:30:34.159 --> 01:30:39.800 those, and then I got talked into By this time, i'd moved to 970 01:30:40.439 --> 01:30:44.720 England Air Force Base. They asked me if I would where I wanted to 971 01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:48.880 retire and I said I don't, and I asked him to send me to 972 01:30:49.000 --> 01:30:54.199 the year to school. I'd started instructing, so as I was learning, 973 01:30:54.319 --> 01:30:58.119 I was instructing, I registered for those three races. I registered for the 974 01:30:58.119 --> 01:31:02.199 Pensacola Marathon, something local, and I got talked into the San Antonio Marathon. 975 01:31:02.319 --> 01:31:08.800 I don't even know how, but before I've registered four marathons and the 976 01:31:08.920 --> 01:31:14.079 Army ten miler, all within the span of four months. And I'd never 977 01:31:14.199 --> 01:31:19.840 run anything longer than ten k in my life. So more learning, more 978 01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:27.359 learning, I'd have to do that random and the three of those races qualified 979 01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:31.359 me for Boston. Wow, what can can I ask? What is the 980 01:31:31.479 --> 01:31:39.640 process for running one hundred yards, let alone a marathon. When you're when 981 01:31:39.640 --> 01:31:46.319 you're blinding, you can't see the route. Oh yeah, you gotta pay. 982 01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:50.960 You gotta listen really hard for the traffic. No, we had a 983 01:31:50.960 --> 01:31:58.920 marathon, I would just start yelling marcom let's see what happens. Actually, 984 01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:04.279 the truth is there's a couple of different methods. But what I started using 985 01:32:04.520 --> 01:32:09.359 was just a simple short tether. I would hold one end and my guide 986 01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:14.159 would hold another. In fact, my very first tether was a dog talk 987 01:32:14.199 --> 01:32:17.640 a war rope. You know. I'd hold a fat knot and my guide 988 01:32:17.640 --> 01:32:24.760 would hold a knot and I almost wouldn't have to talk. I would get 989 01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:30.159 all my cues from wherever that rope went. And there was a couple of 990 01:32:30.199 --> 01:32:34.000 different signals for like high stepping it or if we had to go single file. 991 01:32:34.399 --> 01:32:40.079 And then of course this is encumbent upon my guide to just work around 992 01:32:40.279 --> 01:32:45.800 any like open manhole covers or something. But that's that's how I ran. 993 01:32:45.520 --> 01:32:54.720 For nine years. I've been running marathons and then ultra marathons with a sighted 994 01:32:54.760 --> 01:33:04.359 guide or guides side by side. That's hardcore, man m Actually it was 995 01:33:05.520 --> 01:33:12.640 just a side effect of trying to get ready for the mountains. You know, 996 01:33:12.680 --> 01:33:18.039 it's really hard to find a decent mountain of train on in Florida, 997 01:33:18.159 --> 01:33:24.600 but I would. I would pack, yeah, rock, are you one 998 01:33:24.640 --> 01:33:30.119 of those expedition packs and go find the tallest kind of condo building and go 999 01:33:30.239 --> 01:33:34.479 up and down the stairs, and then I'd find a guide and go for 1000 01:33:34.800 --> 01:33:39.600 go for a run and train for these marathons. And that's how, you 1001 01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:43.800 know, besides kettlebells and stuff like that. It turned my garage into a 1002 01:33:43.840 --> 01:33:47.960 pretty decent gym. It was. Running just happened to be a lot easier 1003 01:33:48.199 --> 01:33:55.960 than getting to the condos or getting to an actual mountain, and it was 1004 01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:00.840 a great way to socialize. I mean, everything now days is a team 1005 01:34:00.920 --> 01:34:06.640 sport. So I love getting running with locals. And and there's a lot 1006 01:34:06.680 --> 01:34:10.960 of times I run with first time guides. They're like, how do you, 1007 01:34:11.319 --> 01:34:13.960 how do you? How do you? How do you do this sighted 1008 01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:17.760 guide thing? That's gonna be dealful of this? Yeah, and and then 1009 01:34:18.800 --> 01:34:23.840 you know, I've gotta I gotta you know, I've got somebody trapped as 1010 01:34:23.880 --> 01:34:30.239 I you know, I can talk to them. But right right, well, 1011 01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:31.960 it sounds like you were probably dragging the guide after a little while, 1012 01:34:33.880 --> 01:34:39.039 well, you know it is that is one of the challenges. And beyond, 1013 01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:45.399 of course the obvious is also finding somebody that was wanted to good do 1014 01:34:45.760 --> 01:34:49.680 the same distance or pace that I was doing and our schedules match up. 1015 01:34:50.520 --> 01:34:57.640 So it's it's some somewhat of complexity. I would love the mention here that 1016 01:34:57.880 --> 01:35:05.079 one of my friends, blind Marine Runner, who started a site. A 1017 01:35:05.119 --> 01:35:13.159 website is called United in Stride dot org and that's where interested people cited. 1018 01:35:13.199 --> 01:35:16.039 People couldn't go and find blind runners around the country, I think even around 1019 01:35:16.079 --> 01:35:19.760 the world, and you know they might be in their neighborhood and go running 1020 01:35:19.760 --> 01:35:26.319 with them. But so I actually at the time I reached down to Team 1021 01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:31.720 RWB and found the local chapter went running with them. This is really cool. 1022 01:35:32.439 --> 01:35:41.640 They started a Sunday marathon training run specifically to help me get ready for 1023 01:35:41.720 --> 01:35:47.439 my first marathons, and with they invited everybody who wanted to come out at 1024 01:35:47.560 --> 01:35:55.399 all ability levels, and they had like a paste vehicle loaded with the refreshments 1025 01:35:55.399 --> 01:36:00.520 and stuff and more and more people every every week every Sunday will come out 1026 01:36:00.079 --> 01:36:08.920 and would come and run, and before long it wasn't Aaron's marathon training day. 1027 01:36:09.319 --> 01:36:13.920 It was just training day and as far as I know, it's still 1028 01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:19.039 going and it was it was it was great to be a part of something 1029 01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:27.560 that grew beyond yourself, you know, grew beyond me. It was helping 1030 01:36:27.600 --> 01:36:31.359 others somebody, you know, I know more than one person in that group 1031 01:36:31.760 --> 01:36:35.119 was just getting ready for their first five k and that was That's the coolest 1032 01:36:35.119 --> 01:36:39.680 thing ever. Yeah, yeah, so that was that was really like that 1033 01:36:39.760 --> 01:36:44.199 special. I also want to touch on you mentioned that you were allowed to 1034 01:36:44.239 --> 01:36:47.920 stay in the Army and instrucked, which is really cool and I'm really glad 1035 01:36:48.520 --> 01:36:51.880 that they're doing that. The Army has gotten better about that over the years. 1036 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:57.880 You talk a little bit more about what that was like. Well, 1037 01:36:58.319 --> 01:37:01.319 this was I started, like they asked me at first, right at well 1038 01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:06.159 to read where do you want to retire? And I learned in that time 1039 01:37:06.439 --> 01:37:12.479 that there's something called a continuation of Active duty service or co AD for short, 1040 01:37:13.199 --> 01:37:18.239 and you still have to go through the medboard process and that's a nine 1041 01:37:18.279 --> 01:37:24.239 months a year long. As they go through, I mean, there's a 1042 01:37:24.319 --> 01:37:31.239 huge review process. But once the Department Army, Department of Defense, we 1043 01:37:31.359 --> 01:37:36.680 have their findings, that's what they send over to the Department of Veterans Affairs 1044 01:37:36.680 --> 01:37:44.079 as a recommendation for retirement and like a transfer from one department to the other, 1045 01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:48.119 and that's when you can put in your request for a co AD. 1046 01:37:49.079 --> 01:37:57.359 So in the meantime, I can't just stay in patient at AUGUSTA, you 1047 01:37:57.399 --> 01:38:04.119 know, a graduated line school. And then as soon as you're as soon 1048 01:38:04.159 --> 01:38:10.920 as you get to the health point where the military, you're like, the 1049 01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:16.399 military can't do anything to improve your situation. I guess it is. That's 1050 01:38:16.399 --> 01:38:24.279 when the medboard process begins. So I asked them to send me to the 1051 01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:27.520 year at school. Now, of course, you know the military does have 1052 01:38:27.600 --> 01:38:32.279 these Warrior transition units there. The Army and at least did this, and 1053 01:38:32.520 --> 01:38:42.800 it's like full units comprised of wounded wounded service members that wounded army well wounded 1054 01:38:42.840 --> 01:38:48.600 soldiers that their full time occupation, the full time job it becomes and getting 1055 01:38:48.640 --> 01:38:56.800 well, completing that medboard process. So if they have ongoing treatments, that's 1056 01:38:56.840 --> 01:39:00.439 the first priority. If they then it's you know, completing everything they can 1057 01:39:00.760 --> 01:39:06.560 for the medboard process. And if they're there and everything along that ends, 1058 01:39:06.600 --> 01:39:15.840 then it's then they're actually ordered to get an education while they're waiting for you 1059 01:39:15.880 --> 01:39:19.640 know, the board finding stay to complete it. Well, I asked to 1060 01:39:19.720 --> 01:39:24.319 go to work. I hadn't go to the un school. And it was 1061 01:39:24.359 --> 01:39:30.560 funny, I didn't realize what kind of red tape it would take to it 1062 01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:33.720 would send me to a war the closest warrior transition here and it and then 1063 01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:40.359 my place of duty in place of work. It is the red tape in 1064 01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:45.800 all of that, being sent to a Navy base or a Navy school on 1065 01:39:45.840 --> 01:39:50.960 an Air Force base in the army warrior transition here in it. So it 1066 01:39:51.079 --> 01:39:56.399 got so confusing that nobody knew who I belonged to, which is also cool. 1067 01:39:57.119 --> 01:40:02.079 But yeah, I went to the school house, I started started teaching. 1068 01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:10.520 I actually went to the IEDs. I went. What I did was 1069 01:40:10.560 --> 01:40:16.439 I helped build up and out of cycle training course. In a lot of 1070 01:40:16.520 --> 01:40:23.119 military schools, you know, it's there's cycles, you know, the classes 1071 01:40:23.239 --> 01:40:28.119 and a pace that the classes go through. And if somebody you know, 1072 01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:33.159 you know, fails a test or has some kind of a medical thing and 1073 01:40:33.199 --> 01:40:39.920 they miss too much of their class, they can't continue on with that class. 1074 01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:44.319 They can't miss that material, or they maybe because they failed that they 1075 01:40:44.319 --> 01:40:46.920 have to retake that material. They have to go out of cycle and wait 1076 01:40:47.119 --> 01:40:55.680 till there's a spot opening in another class behind them to retake that particular part 1077 01:40:55.720 --> 01:41:00.000 of the course and continue on. Sometimes there's days, maybe it's weeks or 1078 01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:10.119 even months. But when they're out of cycle, our EOD detachment, the 1079 01:41:10.239 --> 01:41:14.319 Army detachment there at the EOD school didn't have a whole lot for them to 1080 01:41:14.319 --> 01:41:18.119 do. They would put them on these working parties, you know, filling 1081 01:41:18.159 --> 01:41:29.239 sandbags or doing bass cleanup or something they ever read, uh tried it decent 1082 01:41:29.279 --> 01:41:35.840 Redman when he's at Ranger School and he's one day he's picking up cigarette butts 1083 01:41:33.840 --> 01:41:41.119 and you know, they got EOD texts that had nothing to do. So 1084 01:41:42.560 --> 01:41:46.279 back in the detachment in the backyard, we've built this huge sandbox training pet 1085 01:41:46.760 --> 01:41:55.159 and started training the outer cycle guys wherever they wherever they were supposed to jump 1086 01:41:55.159 --> 01:42:00.039 back into the class. That's where we teach them and keep them sharp on 1087 01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:05.159 the material that they're about to go back into. And I kept them sharp 1088 01:42:05.399 --> 01:42:11.399 on the I EED stuff. And I did that for about a year and 1089 01:42:11.399 --> 01:42:16.840 a half or so and until my my, you know, the medboard came 1090 01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:23.359 back. And of course findings that I guess blindness and means I'm allowed to 1091 01:42:23.399 --> 01:42:27.279 leave the military. In fact, I would do you're not even allowed to 1092 01:42:27.319 --> 01:42:33.439 be color blind, and do you what you work? So at that same 1093 01:42:33.479 --> 01:42:36.640 time I was running this was it was taking time off. If I was 1094 01:42:36.720 --> 01:42:43.159 running these marathons, I was climbing mountains, I was being asked to speak 1095 01:42:43.479 --> 01:42:49.399 around with the country, and I was actually finding you enjoyment in sharing the 1096 01:42:49.520 --> 01:42:58.119 story and doing these finding these other accomplishments, these other challenges, and well, 1097 01:42:59.079 --> 01:43:01.960 when I was sitting at that you know, the hospital, men well 1098 01:43:02.039 --> 01:43:05.920 to read, I might have been in definitely wasn't a bit of denial, 1099 01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:08.760 Like I didn't want to let go. I could still do this, I 1100 01:43:08.760 --> 01:43:11.000 could still do something. I could still serve. I don't have to let 1101 01:43:11.079 --> 01:43:16.479 go of the middle the uniform. By the time the medboard came back at 1102 01:43:16.520 --> 01:43:24.239 the findings in the decision, I had nothing left to prove, especially not 1103 01:43:24.279 --> 01:43:34.840 to myself. I retired. It's it's truly fascinating in your relations and sort 1104 01:43:34.880 --> 01:43:40.439 of in the blind community. What are some of the biggest difference you find 1105 01:43:40.439 --> 01:43:44.199 between like, you know, men such as yourself, you know, especially 1106 01:43:44.279 --> 01:43:47.800 the veterans who as adults, you know, became blind, and then people 1107 01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:53.600 who have been blind either since early childhood or the whole lives. Like, 1108 01:43:53.880 --> 01:44:01.720 what are some of the differences there that you've found some of the different understandings. 1109 01:44:01.960 --> 01:44:05.399 Yeah, yeah, I guess, like because because there's sort of really 1110 01:44:05.439 --> 01:44:11.720 two different sets of the subsets of the blind community. Correct, Like people 1111 01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:19.880 who have who were cited for a long time and then became blind. Misconceptions. 1112 01:44:20.439 --> 01:44:28.760 Yeah, but the first thing is we don't we don't touch other people's 1113 01:44:28.800 --> 01:44:32.520 faces. That's girls, I don't want to. I don't want to touch 1114 01:44:32.520 --> 01:44:36.000 your face. And you have no idea where my hands have been. Those 1115 01:44:36.039 --> 01:44:41.960 are my eyes, remember, right? And if you ever see a blind 1116 01:44:42.000 --> 01:44:48.399 guy at a like a buffet, just walk out, just just go. 1117 01:44:53.159 --> 01:44:56.520 I'm gonna be it will be me at the buffet and I'll be just sticking 1118 01:44:56.560 --> 01:45:04.000 my finger in there. Yeah. But yeah, there was so many misconceptions, 1119 01:45:04.000 --> 01:45:11.479 so many things I didn't realize blind people could do. For for example, 1120 01:45:12.800 --> 01:45:15.720 while in Augusta and learning how to be blind, there was this and 1121 01:45:15.880 --> 01:45:21.840 I actually never knew this was even existed, but there was a recreational therapist 1122 01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:29.119 on staff, and this guy, his old job was to have fun basically 1123 01:45:29.600 --> 01:45:33.560 recreation. So he would come into my room and say, hey, Eric, 1124 01:45:34.279 --> 01:45:41.880 you want to go golfing? I come on, Dard, you know 1125 01:45:41.880 --> 01:45:45.199 what the funny thing is like even when after you go blind, golfers are 1126 01:45:45.319 --> 01:45:49.640 serious golf like about golfing. You don't how they get right even after we 1127 01:45:49.800 --> 01:45:55.439 go blind. I mean there's there are two national associations, the US Blind 1128 01:45:55.439 --> 01:46:00.960 Golf Association and the American Blind Golf Association. Apparent like one faction, uh 1129 01:46:00.239 --> 01:46:03.479 split off from the other because a difference in like the rules, like an 1130 01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:08.560 argument of the rules. That's that Look, these are blind guys that take 1131 01:46:08.560 --> 01:46:15.640 golf seriously. And so then this uh wreck therapist caring in the room another 1132 01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:16.840 day and he goes, hey, Aaron, you want to go for a 1133 01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:19.680 bike ride? Might come on, put messing with you, Dared. That's 1134 01:46:20.039 --> 01:46:29.159 that's nuts bike rid And apparently yeah, like yeah, blind tandem cycling is 1135 01:46:29.199 --> 01:46:34.880 a serious sport. That's a Paralympic sport. I mean there's real athletes you 1136 01:46:34.920 --> 01:46:44.479 know that are blind and do cycling. When I when when when I got 1137 01:46:44.520 --> 01:46:48.880 to the blind school in AUGUSTA, I was just a few months behind Brad 1138 01:46:48.960 --> 01:46:58.039 Snyder. There's a Navy EOTI tech who had lost his eyesight, and he's 1139 01:46:58.079 --> 01:47:01.279 he's just he's just amazing dude. But being a Navy guy, he's a 1140 01:47:01.319 --> 01:47:09.159 swimmer, he's a diver, and when he got to Augusta, he would 1141 01:47:09.239 --> 01:47:15.119 train in the you know, the pool you to buy And every time I 1142 01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:17.279 saw him, he's like, hey, Eric, you wouldn't go swimming with 1143 01:47:17.319 --> 01:47:21.880 me, And I'm not haven't had much of a swimmer in a long time. 1144 01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:26.239 And I'm like blown out of ear drums. I have to wear cotton 1145 01:47:26.359 --> 01:47:33.520 balls into the shower. I can't. I'm sorry, Mike. But after 1146 01:47:35.039 --> 01:47:42.800 after he graduated from blind school, he went to the London Paralympics and won 1147 01:47:43.000 --> 01:47:50.199 three medals. Then he's been to the next two Summer Paralympics and won more 1148 01:47:50.239 --> 01:47:54.920 medals. I mean, the guy's a heck of a swimmer. Yeah, 1149 01:47:55.279 --> 01:48:00.479 and now he's doing triathlons. So it was it was just this definitely this 1150 01:48:00.520 --> 01:48:06.000 misconception about what we're capable of, and it was just for me, it 1151 01:48:06.279 --> 01:48:14.239 totally broke through this glass ceiling. And then I was just thinking, Okay, 1152 01:48:14.399 --> 01:48:15.960 I don't It's not that I can't do anything. I just got to 1153 01:48:15.960 --> 01:48:21.560 figure it out a new way. To do it. And my whole philosophy 1154 01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:29.199 was you gotta figure out It's not that I can't, it's just how can 1155 01:48:29.359 --> 01:48:33.680 I? Right, It wasn't why is this happening to me? It's why 1156 01:48:33.800 --> 01:48:39.399 is this happening for me? What can I learn from? And that's what 1157 01:48:39.439 --> 01:48:43.760 I did. I started running marathons and I started look climbing these mountains. 1158 01:48:43.800 --> 01:48:48.520 I joined Eric Wyne Merritt on the tenth anniversary of his ever summit. He 1159 01:48:48.680 --> 01:48:55.720 took a whole team of wounded veterans because his dad's a marine, and he 1160 01:48:55.800 --> 01:49:00.359 took the whole team wounded veterans up of nineteen thousand foot peak in Proving. 1161 01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:06.000 Andy's called it Soldiers to Summits, and oh, I was on that team. 1162 01:49:06.560 --> 01:49:14.840 The funny thing was we started off towards our towards the summit on on 1163 01:49:14.920 --> 01:49:18.279 that you know that day, at three to four in the morning, and 1164 01:49:18.319 --> 01:49:23.479 it's so dark. Everybody's complaining that they can't see you where they're putting their 1165 01:49:23.520 --> 01:49:31.680 feet and I walking to my world crep and this was an amazing experience. 1166 01:49:32.239 --> 01:49:44.439 But then it was it was just Okay, nothing is off off limits except 1167 01:49:44.560 --> 01:49:49.159 maybe helicopter pilot, but almost nothing is off limits for me. I just 1168 01:49:49.159 --> 01:49:55.600 got to figure out how to do it, and then it was the whole 1169 01:49:55.920 --> 01:50:01.960 My whole life became an adventure all over again. It's I mean, it's 1170 01:50:02.560 --> 01:50:08.039 truly fascinating. It's it's incredible. It's a testament to you and all and 1171 01:50:08.159 --> 01:50:13.720 everybody else, you know, every other service member, but everybody else who 1172 01:50:13.800 --> 01:50:17.560 is blind. Like, yes, I would never even think. It's so 1173 01:50:17.640 --> 01:50:23.439 hard to imagine of all the senses, of all the things. It It 1174 01:50:23.479 --> 01:50:31.119 feels as though for you know, yeah, just it's so hard to imagine 1175 01:50:31.840 --> 01:50:38.000 what that would be. I saw I listened to I'm sorry, I don't 1176 01:50:38.039 --> 01:50:44.239 see much anymore. But I listened to another podcast and somebody was talking about 1177 01:50:44.359 --> 01:50:49.399 was a blind guy that it was a food chemist, and I was talking 1178 01:50:49.439 --> 01:50:56.840 about how most people, most humans get about ninety six percent of their information 1179 01:50:57.279 --> 01:51:05.960 through their eyes. That's not because it's it's mostly because we stopped. You 1180 01:51:06.760 --> 01:51:12.079 come to relion on our eyes and we don't pay as much attention to other 1181 01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:16.920 senses. And that's that's when it's funny when people ask if the other senses 1182 01:51:16.920 --> 01:51:24.159 have gotten stronger. Uh, well, I'm deaf, and you know, 1183 01:51:24.319 --> 01:51:28.960 the blast cut right across my nose. I kind of have a demandish sense 1184 01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:34.279 of smell, which is linked to my taste. Don't ask me, but 1185 01:51:34.720 --> 01:51:38.000 I can't tell people, you know, if I need to navigate. I 1186 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:41.520 got a good go down on the you know, hands and knees and lick 1187 01:51:41.600 --> 01:51:48.880 the concrete. But it's it's true that we don't pay attention to other senses. 1188 01:51:49.159 --> 01:51:55.119 And every once in a while it really is a good thing to it 1189 01:51:55.239 --> 01:52:01.640 close our eyes and just take a deep breath and listen really hard, beyond 1190 01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:08.560 that point of boredom, because that's when we really start paying attention. But 1191 01:52:09.840 --> 01:52:16.079 I think everything was going going really well. I don't know these these ventures 1192 01:52:16.119 --> 01:52:19.800 I was speaking, I was I was teaching for a while, I was 1193 01:52:19.880 --> 01:52:30.239 running the marathons and two summer spring of spring and early summer of twenty fifteen 1194 01:52:30.760 --> 01:52:36.520 or epic. I went to Colorado and climbed three fourteen ers in a day. 1195 01:52:38.319 --> 01:52:42.520 I went hunting in Texas. I don't know, you guys can see 1196 01:52:42.520 --> 01:52:49.720 I'm above there, that dude. I went to yellow Stone in Montana with 1197 01:52:49.880 --> 01:52:57.640 my body Lawnie went kayaking skydiving, which I don't know. That was okay, 1198 01:52:57.680 --> 01:53:00.920 but it's kind of like sticking your head out of car for me, 1199 01:53:02.359 --> 01:53:10.119 and I was two weeks away from heading out to Tanzania to climb kilman Jarro 1200 01:53:11.279 --> 01:53:17.880 when I got h knocked down to the mat again. I contracted bactilomategitis and 1201 01:53:17.920 --> 01:53:26.039 I was sent right back to the hospital. Man the cracks in my skull 1202 01:53:26.560 --> 01:53:33.199 that hadn't been fully patched four years later. A path out is also a 1203 01:53:33.279 --> 01:53:39.880 path in, and the bacteria crept right into my brain and was trying to 1204 01:53:39.960 --> 01:53:46.760 kill me. And in the process, Yeah, I survived, but it 1205 01:53:47.079 --> 01:53:53.800 had also stolen what was left of my hearing and it left me completely deaf. 1206 01:53:54.720 --> 01:53:59.720 So you know, the when the doctor was breaking the news to me, 1207 01:54:00.199 --> 01:54:06.560 it actually felt like I was underwater. It was so congested, and 1208 01:54:06.600 --> 01:54:13.319 I had my mom in the room, my girlfriend in the room, and 1209 01:54:13.720 --> 01:54:17.600 talking to this doctor. It's like, don what you're telling me is I'm 1210 01:54:17.640 --> 01:54:25.680 going to be completely hundred percent blind and a feud percent death. You mean 1211 01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:33.560 I'm never gonna have to pretend to pay attention ever again, sever line and 1212 01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:41.640 everything. Yeah, of course I blamed the meningitis, but I didn't. 1213 01:54:41.720 --> 01:54:48.840 I didn't hear my mom or my girlfriend in life. But even though I 1214 01:54:48.920 --> 01:54:57.960 really do like using humor to diffuse the situation. Yeah, it was awful 1215 01:54:58.000 --> 01:55:01.079 news. Yeah, kicking the balls, man, I was, I was 1216 01:55:01.159 --> 01:55:05.039 just hitting my stride, Yeah I was. I was just I was. 1217 01:55:05.159 --> 01:55:11.880 I was on my way to mastering this blind thing. And there are was. 1218 01:55:12.600 --> 01:55:16.680 And also just like the blindness had an added bonus gift the because I 1219 01:55:16.840 --> 01:55:25.880 lost those inner ear the little hair fodicals in your coclea. That also I 1220 01:55:25.960 --> 01:55:31.720 also lost my vestibular balance, the inner ear gyro. So I lost. 1221 01:55:31.760 --> 01:55:38.399 I lost my sense of balance. It was like vertigo, but weirder because 1222 01:55:38.399 --> 01:55:44.079 it was like all the ways. So and we thank goodness for those handicap 1223 01:55:44.159 --> 01:55:46.199 rails in the in the bathrooms, because I would fall right off the toilet. 1224 01:55:47.520 --> 01:55:54.920 I came home in a wheelchair, and man, I was passed again. 1225 01:55:55.640 --> 01:55:59.279 Is the same calm my my demons, that what ifs the limes? 1226 01:56:00.039 --> 01:56:04.880 I? When has this guy paid his fair share? When is enough enough? 1227 01:56:05.560 --> 01:56:11.600 You know? When has this soldier sacrificed? Right? You know? 1228 01:56:12.399 --> 01:56:15.159 When can you just give it to another guy? You know? Yea one 1229 01:56:15.199 --> 01:56:23.479 more thing taken from you? Yeah m hm. So I'm sitting there like 1230 01:56:24.279 --> 01:56:29.640 that the counter in my kitchen, right holding on to the counter kind of 1231 01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:34.800 fall off the stool and there would be a chance I could regain some of 1232 01:56:34.880 --> 01:56:40.760 my hearing with a cochlear implant, which is not a hearing aid, like 1233 01:56:40.840 --> 01:56:45.439 my ears are turned off permanently, but uh, there'll be I'd have to 1234 01:56:45.520 --> 01:56:49.000 wait till the nangitis, let the infection cleared up. Then they would do 1235 01:56:49.199 --> 01:56:55.319 surgery on my right side, the more damaged ear. And for anybody watching, 1236 01:56:55.920 --> 01:57:01.119 I'm not wearing one right now because after getting the surgery, waiting weeks 1237 01:57:01.159 --> 01:57:05.840 for it to heal up, then getting the process external processor tuned in, 1238 01:57:06.800 --> 01:57:12.760 found out that it didn't work. It was just too much inner ear scarring 1239 01:57:13.600 --> 01:57:19.319 for the endplant to work. Then I have to start the process all over 1240 01:57:19.640 --> 01:57:27.840 with the left ear. And it was over six months from you know, 1241 01:57:27.960 --> 01:57:33.680 infection to the first sound whatever you want to call. It's a digital signal 1242 01:57:33.760 --> 01:57:38.840 scent right to my auditory nerve. My brain had to learn how long to 1243 01:57:38.840 --> 01:57:44.640 hear again a different way, how to interpret this different sign sound. And 1244 01:57:45.000 --> 01:57:49.279 it's nothing like the real thing. It's kind of like calling a friend at 1245 01:57:50.359 --> 01:57:54.680 at a restaurant and he just puts it on speaker and puts in the middle 1246 01:57:54.720 --> 01:58:00.319 of the table. You just hear every imperfection on the table, around the 1247 01:58:00.359 --> 01:58:02.560 table, clinking, the other conversations. It all kind of mixes into a 1248 01:58:02.640 --> 01:58:09.199 wall of sound. Yeah, but fifth way better than the alternative use. 1249 01:58:09.439 --> 01:58:15.399 For six six months, I was locked inside my body, but it was 1250 01:58:15.479 --> 01:58:21.159 just trapped silent, dark, could not get a message in. I was 1251 01:58:21.239 --> 01:58:26.960 thinking, damn, I should have learned brail at blind school. But all 1252 01:58:27.039 --> 01:58:30.399 the tech, it's just made me lazy and it's hardness. And we just 1253 01:58:30.399 --> 01:58:35.039 wanted me to say, but you know, the only thing I can like, 1254 01:58:35.119 --> 01:58:39.239 even think the liking it too is it's like you're in a submarine by 1255 01:58:39.279 --> 01:58:45.680 yourself with no sonar, like just isolated m h and photosophial guy like me. 1256 01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:56.439 That sucked. So I mean a frustrating and lonely it is. And 1257 01:58:56.039 --> 01:59:01.039 uh, you know, people we went through the whole COVID quarantine era, 1258 01:59:01.800 --> 01:59:09.159 you know that period. People were complaining about the isolation, like that's nothing 1259 01:59:09.640 --> 01:59:16.840 right. But I'm sitting there again, pissed off, and this ironic thought 1260 01:59:17.640 --> 01:59:23.600 came into my mind. It was like, for four years I've been talking 1261 01:59:23.600 --> 01:59:29.640 about triumph over tragedy and success through struggle and all this kind of stuff, 1262 01:59:30.199 --> 01:59:35.279 and God was telling me to put my money where my mouth was like jerk, 1263 01:59:36.880 --> 01:59:43.680 but it was it was like, okay, won't prove it. And 1264 01:59:44.479 --> 01:59:47.640 I just remembered all the stuff that I went through the first time, and 1265 01:59:48.239 --> 01:59:51.119 and I just like I told myself, like, this isn't your first radio, 1266 01:59:51.319 --> 01:59:56.760 You've already done it. You know how to do this, And I 1267 01:59:56.920 --> 02:00:02.680 remember just just as in like an EOD team, we get this like a 1268 02:00:02.760 --> 02:00:10.479 Tricondra quad cons shipping container full of tools and the bombs, says the robots, 1269 02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:14.479 and it hasn't at kids and all sorts of things. But then you 1270 02:00:14.520 --> 02:00:19.199 get it on deployment and you get that armored truck and it's just not as 1271 02:00:19.199 --> 02:00:24.439 big as the shipping a tighter and you can't fit at all of your tools. 1272 02:00:24.960 --> 02:00:31.199 So this one three person team has to do the prioritize what is most 1273 02:00:31.279 --> 02:00:36.680 likely to be used in this battle space and then leave some of the tools 1274 02:00:36.720 --> 02:00:43.960 behind. And then of course we're going on these dismounted missions. You know, 1275 02:00:44.199 --> 02:00:48.239 we're walking on foot on these dirt trails, and you only you can 1276 02:00:48.279 --> 02:00:51.920 only bring what you can you can hump on your back, so you got 1277 02:00:51.920 --> 02:00:58.039 to leave a lot of tools behind. And I love, how is it 1278 02:00:58.159 --> 02:01:02.920 General Jim Mattess put it in call sign chaos said, at least in the 1279 02:01:02.960 --> 02:01:09.279 Marines. Yeah, things being hard, we're never a good excuse for mission 1280 02:01:09.319 --> 02:01:14.720 failure. And you know, I've got a family, I've got a son, 1281 02:01:15.840 --> 02:01:21.680 this this amazing girlfriend I've got, I've got that my fellow warriors to 1282 02:01:21.800 --> 02:01:30.439 think of. My life doesn't belong to just me, and I'm responsible to 1283 02:01:30.680 --> 02:01:34.640 them and for them, and I got to figure this out. So I 1284 02:01:34.720 --> 02:01:43.399 left some tools behind. The mission continues. So I did what anybody in 1285 02:01:43.399 --> 02:01:57.840 my situation would do. Started a fudge company. What m besides getting on 1286 02:01:57.960 --> 02:02:03.680 the treadmill and holder going for digger life because I just hit the vertigo and 1287 02:02:03.840 --> 02:02:10.800 quick start button, just walked half a mile an hour. I was. 1288 02:02:10.960 --> 02:02:15.960 I was also I was also taking my trekking poles that I was using in 1289 02:02:16.000 --> 02:02:20.720 the mountains, and I would did this weird daddy long legged crab walk thing 1290 02:02:21.279 --> 02:02:30.359 out to my my mailboxing back and I'd be exhausted, but would I would 1291 02:02:30.399 --> 02:02:31.800 do it every single day, a couple of times a day, and then 1292 02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:35.159 I'll go a little bit further, go a little bit faster on my treadmill. 1293 02:02:36.399 --> 02:02:41.479 And at the holidays, we're common Thanksgiving us around the corner, and 1294 02:02:41.840 --> 02:02:45.760 I decided to stop worrying about myself. So I stop thinking about my situation. 1295 02:02:46.279 --> 02:02:53.880 And I was just going to throw a huge Thanksgiving faced. So I 1296 02:02:53.920 --> 02:02:59.039 started cooking weeks in advance. I started making the cakes and the pies and 1297 02:02:59.279 --> 02:03:05.039 cookies just throw in another the freezer until the day I started making batch after 1298 02:03:05.159 --> 02:03:12.880 batch of fudge, one flavor after another. The combinations were infinite, and 1299 02:03:12.920 --> 02:03:15.199 I was going to explore the mole and I just I just can't do it. 1300 02:03:15.199 --> 02:03:18.159 I have to throw nuts it and spices, and I got the lick 1301 02:03:18.239 --> 02:03:21.880 a cabinet and dump a little there and double in the mouth. And and 1302 02:03:23.840 --> 02:03:30.399 Michaela, my now wife, said she noticed two things. One was I 1303 02:03:30.399 --> 02:03:34.720 had a smile on my face for the first time in six months. And 1304 02:03:34.880 --> 02:03:41.600 two, the fudge was paneling up. So she snuck it out the front 1305 02:03:41.600 --> 02:03:44.279 door, like you gotta be a restell, they round a blood deaf guy. 1306 02:03:44.720 --> 02:03:48.960 But she was giving it away to your friends and family, friends and 1307 02:03:49.000 --> 02:03:53.560 neighbors and whoever. A couple of people came back and said, yeah, 1308 02:03:53.600 --> 02:03:57.880 hey, this is pretty good. Can we buy some for birthday or something? 1309 02:03:58.239 --> 02:04:01.520 Party? Office party, And the capitalist in me said, well, 1310 02:04:01.560 --> 02:04:06.239 of course you may, and all of a sudden we had this business and 1311 02:04:06.319 --> 02:04:14.239 it was so funny and for look, just months into it, I you 1312 02:04:14.279 --> 02:04:17.279 know that home gym and micarad I had the light in line, I had 1313 02:04:17.319 --> 02:04:27.800 the treadmill, the rower, the stationary bike and then the conveyor belt shrink 1314 02:04:27.880 --> 02:04:32.600 rap machine. But it was it was something to do. It was a 1315 02:04:32.680 --> 02:04:41.479 project. It was a challenge, and we threw an awesome Thanksgiving. I 1316 02:04:41.560 --> 02:04:46.479 was happy. We had even some of the stranded u uty students that you 1317 02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:50.319 know, I didn't have enough lee days or everybody saved up for Thanksgiving. 1318 02:04:50.359 --> 02:04:58.319 We'll say it for you know, Christmas or New Year's and the other During 1319 02:04:58.319 --> 02:05:00.800 the holidays, the basics shut down, so we I had a few students, 1320 02:05:00.840 --> 02:05:03.800 however, share our table and it was great. It was fun. 1321 02:05:04.000 --> 02:05:11.279 I didn't worry about not hearing, and the fust business started taking off. 1322 02:05:12.119 --> 02:05:18.000 I started running again, and a year after the meningitis, I ran my 1323 02:05:18.079 --> 02:05:27.039 hometown marathon in epern Ohio the same week of my twentieth high school reunit and 1324 02:05:27.079 --> 02:05:33.680 got my first sub for our marathon. That's pretty cool. That was that 1325 02:05:33.760 --> 02:05:41.520 was awesome, unreal and Aaron I would like to take just a moment to 1326 02:05:42.600 --> 02:05:46.479 put a pin or point out that I think you mentioned a little bit before 1327 02:05:46.479 --> 02:05:51.119 we started recording. Actually, had you been a World War Two veteran or 1328 02:05:51.159 --> 02:05:57.880 a Vietnam veteran, you'd be in a very different place. Because medical science 1329 02:05:57.920 --> 02:06:03.680 has advanced so much number of the decades. I'm just interested to hear kind 1330 02:06:03.680 --> 02:06:06.560 of your your thoughts of you know, I mean, in some sense, 1331 02:06:06.600 --> 02:06:10.960 when we start talking about ocular implants and all these it almost is like a 1332 02:06:10.960 --> 02:06:16.920 miracle, right absolutely, I mean, the technology science medicine, it's absolutely 1333 02:06:16.920 --> 02:06:25.399 amazing. This co clear implant is literally implanted in my head, and it's 1334 02:06:25.439 --> 02:06:30.279 an electrode that goes into the couple a bone and the inner ear, and 1335 02:06:30.479 --> 02:06:35.920 there's an electrode that connects to the branch that basically there's a bundle of nerves 1336 02:06:35.960 --> 02:06:43.600 that's the auditory nerve. And if you can imagine like a big trunk that 1337 02:06:43.640 --> 02:06:47.439 goes into smaller and finer roots until it goes into the cocleum becomes the really 1338 02:06:47.479 --> 02:06:57.199 fine hair cells that are the actual things that pick up the sound and then 1339 02:06:57.239 --> 02:07:00.960 bring it of course into the brain. Well, the coupling implant is the 1340 02:07:00.960 --> 02:07:11.479 electrode that attaches a little higher up on the trunk the roots and the way 1341 02:07:11.720 --> 02:07:17.359 I imagine it is, it's not it's just not as sophisticated as sound. 1342 02:07:17.399 --> 02:07:21.960 It's getting better all the time, and the processor is actually pretty smart, 1343 02:07:23.079 --> 02:07:30.439 has different types of modes. But it's more like, in fact, it's 1344 02:07:30.520 --> 02:07:33.800 like when they first turn it on, they only they can only give you 1345 02:07:34.239 --> 02:07:43.800 the primary colors of sound. It's a very limited amount of data so your 1346 02:07:43.800 --> 02:07:47.359 brain can start learning. And then every few weeks you go back into audiology. 1347 02:07:47.479 --> 02:07:50.880 They tune it in with like the sound board and the computer give you 1348 02:07:50.920 --> 02:07:55.680 a little more data and you learn a little bit more, and they keep 1349 02:07:55.680 --> 02:08:01.359 tweaking it until you get something that resembles sound. But like I said, 1350 02:08:01.399 --> 02:08:05.119 it's kind of like, you know, trying to listen to the whole world 1351 02:08:05.239 --> 02:08:11.199 through a drive through speaker. But it's it's it's amazing. You're forty fifty 1352 02:08:11.279 --> 02:08:16.239 years ago I would have been pulling the full hell and color. Instead, 1353 02:08:16.520 --> 02:08:20.399 I'm you know, connected via bluetooth to my phone, my computer, we're 1354 02:08:20.920 --> 02:08:24.720 talking to each other via the Internet. It's absolutely amazing. Of course it's 1355 02:08:24.720 --> 02:08:31.000 also a hundred one way, so I could screw something up. But definitely 1356 02:08:31.039 --> 02:08:35.319 way better than the alternative. Yeah, do we have any questions for Aaron? 1357 02:08:35.800 --> 02:08:41.199 We do. Let's see here. Let me switch over real quick eron 1358 02:08:41.199 --> 02:08:48.720 where can people like find you right now if they're you know, any of 1359 02:08:48.800 --> 02:08:54.960 your products, any of your social media anything like that. Absolutely, I'm 1360 02:08:54.119 --> 02:08:58.439 I have a podcast, Point of Impact with Aaron Hale, and you can 1361 02:08:58.479 --> 02:09:05.039 find that at Point of Impact pod dot com or on any of the major 1362 02:09:05.720 --> 02:09:13.079 podcast athletes and on YouTube. And you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, 1363 02:09:13.079 --> 02:09:16.319 TikTok. I think I don't know Instagram. I'm not very gonna take 1364 02:09:16.319 --> 02:09:24.840 it photos. But that's at eight lay hail. And of course the main 1365 02:09:24.880 --> 02:09:31.800 thing is the podcast. And then you're also in your brio. Didn't I 1366 02:09:31.800 --> 02:09:37.199 read something you're also involved or you started a charity for building homes for veterans. 1367 02:09:37.199 --> 02:09:46.039 Absolutely well. I am ambassador advocate for a tourismic organization called Building Homes 1368 02:09:46.039 --> 02:09:50.960 for Heroes, and that's Building Homes for Heroes dot org. They're the ones 1369 02:09:52.000 --> 02:10:01.600 that build or adapt especially adapted homes for severely wounded servicemen, veterans, first 1370 02:10:01.640 --> 02:10:05.840 responders, and Gold Star families like this house. I'm there right now, 1371 02:10:07.520 --> 02:10:13.159 and that's the organization. I ran to raise money. I ran bad Water 1372 02:10:13.199 --> 02:10:18.119 one thirty five this last this July for to raise money to raise money for 1373 02:10:18.279 --> 02:10:24.319 building those for years. Serbaty please check that out building Homes for Heroes dot 1374 02:10:24.399 --> 02:10:26.199 org. Look, if you got a few bucks, it doesn't take a 1375 02:10:26.239 --> 02:10:31.439 lot to help out. You know, we'll have a down the description for 1376 02:10:31.479 --> 02:10:35.199 you guys, can you can you tell sort of like how your house is 1377 02:10:35.239 --> 02:10:41.319 set up for you in particular that helps that helps you you're blind, your 1378 02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:46.199 effectively death except for the cochlear implant, Like what are the things that people 1379 02:10:46.319 --> 02:10:50.560 might not know of or that help you? Know? That help you? 1380 02:10:54.359 --> 02:10:58.960 Wow? Could others help me? No? No, I'm sorry? In 1381 02:10:58.039 --> 02:11:05.039 your home? Like, what are the sort of accessibility that was? It's 1382 02:11:05.079 --> 02:11:09.279 actually funny because it was right. They found me right after I left blind 1383 02:11:09.319 --> 02:11:16.840 school and they asked, how do we we I don't think we've ever adapted 1384 02:11:16.039 --> 02:11:20.840 a home for the blind? How do we do that? What kind of 1385 02:11:20.920 --> 02:11:22.960 special adaptations could use? I'm like, I don't know. I've been blind 1386 02:11:22.960 --> 02:11:33.319 for like ten minutes. And this was also almost twelve ten, twelve eleven 1387 02:11:33.399 --> 02:11:39.199 years ago, and there wasn't a whole lot of the smart stuff it wasn't 1388 02:11:39.199 --> 02:11:46.199 as prolific as it is now. So they put in a talking cinmostat and 1389 02:11:46.439 --> 02:11:48.319 stuff. Had to go to it and press the buttons and stuff, and 1390 02:11:48.319 --> 02:11:54.439 it just told you what. You know. They did put a different flooring 1391 02:11:54.880 --> 02:12:01.000 in every room, so as I crossed the threshold in one room to another, 1392 02:12:01.319 --> 02:12:07.600 I could feel it in my shoes, my feet. One special adaptation 1393 02:12:07.680 --> 02:12:09.439 really had nothing to do with blindness or not a whole lot. But I 1394 02:12:09.439 --> 02:12:13.520 asked him to put one of those pop fillers over the stove. Yeah, 1395 02:12:15.199 --> 02:12:20.600 the cook guy always wanted one of those, right, So it was a 1396 02:12:20.680 --> 02:12:26.000 really a whole lot of adaptation for me. I was just extremely grateful that 1397 02:12:26.760 --> 02:12:31.520 I got in just an incredible home in the Florida Panhandle, mortgage free, 1398 02:12:31.079 --> 02:12:39.279 and it was a wonderful gift. Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, everybody 1399 02:12:39.319 --> 02:12:43.439 please check that out Building Homes for Heroes right, Building Homes for Heroes dot 1400 02:12:43.560 --> 02:12:50.960 org. So Lewis Vascas, thank you very much for your donation. Here's 1401 02:12:50.000 --> 02:12:54.000 this question, what is your favorite Italian dish to cook? And what's the 1402 02:12:54.119 --> 02:13:03.600 recipe? Well, do you want pastry? You're talking dinner, talking breakfast? 1403 02:13:03.439 --> 02:13:09.800 I could this could fill an entire episode itself. I think one of 1404 02:13:09.800 --> 02:13:16.720 my favorite go twos is a spaghetti carbonara, very simple and very delicious. 1405 02:13:16.359 --> 02:13:24.239 Yeah, essentially you can use panchetta or another type of Italian you know, 1406 02:13:26.680 --> 02:13:31.760 cured ham bacon, the bacon, but really any kind of bacon will work 1407 02:13:31.840 --> 02:13:37.720 for spaghetti. Little oil, garlic, of salt and pepper, one egg, 1408 02:13:37.359 --> 02:13:43.600 and you've essentially got it, and you can customize it all you want. 1409 02:13:43.640 --> 02:13:52.000 I've had some fantastic wild boar and truffle carbonara, so it's definitely open 1410 02:13:52.079 --> 02:13:58.840 to customization, but it's really simple and always delicious. Sean Walter, thank 1411 02:13:58.840 --> 02:14:03.279 you very much. Great chat. Aaron just mentioned creating out of cycle training 1412 02:14:03.279 --> 02:14:13.640 courses for EOD text. Why wasn't that institutionalized? Cost? Personnel cost question 1413 02:14:13.640 --> 02:14:18.159 mark? Personnel question mark? Like, why wasn't that institutionalized from the beginning? 1414 02:14:20.119 --> 02:14:26.119 Last questions? What the the out of cycle training that you helped create? 1415 02:14:26.600 --> 02:14:35.039 Why wasn't that institutionalized from the beginning? Well, I'm not sure why 1416 02:14:35.079 --> 02:14:37.720 I hadn't begun until you know, I was there. I wasn't the one 1417 02:14:37.760 --> 02:14:43.840 who dreamed it up. I just happened to be there when it was when 1418 02:14:43.880 --> 02:14:48.960 it when it started and helped it, helped build it up. But you 1419 02:14:48.079 --> 02:14:56.199 know, asn't live the service even over you know, a couple hundred years, 1420 02:14:56.960 --> 02:15:01.039 we haven't gotten at all perfect. And it takes it, you know, 1421 02:15:01.279 --> 02:15:03.720 just one person to say, you know what, we can do something 1422 02:15:03.800 --> 02:15:09.600 a little bit better. And so a few Joe's a few students that we 1423 02:15:09.600 --> 02:15:16.640 weren't serving, and we're just sitting around getting getting a paycheck, but actually 1424 02:15:16.960 --> 02:15:20.560 not getting better, probably getting worse by sitting around doing nothing, and say, 1425 02:15:20.600 --> 02:15:26.439 you know what we can do. Let's let's help him out and let's 1426 02:15:26.439 --> 02:15:35.000 make sure they earn their paycheck. But there's always a way to improve the 1427 02:15:35.079 --> 02:15:41.239 situation if we just look around. Thanks a dog point, Thank you very 1428 02:15:41.359 --> 02:15:46.760 much. Did your EO D unit have its own culture? Did you guys 1429 02:15:46.840 --> 02:15:52.479 complete or compete to diffuse the most bombs or have bomb jokes? What kind 1430 02:15:52.479 --> 02:15:58.039 of stuff is in the team room? Of course we're doing there's always competition. 1431 02:15:58.159 --> 02:16:05.680 There was always practical jokes, uh we The practical talker was one of 1432 02:16:05.720 --> 02:16:13.319 the big things. You know, an electronics class we would get we would 1433 02:16:15.239 --> 02:16:20.920 build a circuit using the capacitor from a you know, one of those disposable 1434 02:16:20.000 --> 02:16:26.119 cameras. If you could even find those anymore. But you charge up the 1435 02:16:26.159 --> 02:16:33.280 flash and then we'd do like those little gator clips on each of the Anno 1436 02:16:33.440 --> 02:16:39.120 catherde of the capacitor and it takes basically, you know, you either hook 1437 02:16:39.120 --> 02:16:45.799 it to a circuit or you just complete the circuit with somebody's skin and turn 1438 02:16:45.840 --> 02:16:52.159 it into a taser. So what we would do is we would conceal this 1439 02:16:52.360 --> 02:17:01.680 little uh flash you know, disposable camera taser thing all over the place, 1440 02:17:01.879 --> 02:17:07.479 especially under people's chair arms. So you know, they grab each arm and 1441 02:17:07.879 --> 02:17:15.559 there's a lead on either underside of the arm chair and zap. They just 1442 02:17:15.639 --> 02:17:20.200 completed on the circuit. And so every once in a while you'd see somebody 1443 02:17:20.360 --> 02:17:26.120 jump and everybody start cracking on them, but it's it's pranks. But then 1444 02:17:26.239 --> 02:17:37.000 we're always it was it's like that mentality, you always always trying to find 1445 02:17:37.000 --> 02:17:43.680 a way to kill each other and think of new ways to build our own 1446 02:17:43.719 --> 02:17:48.680 idis so that we're better at building them and dismantling them than the enemy. 1447 02:17:50.280 --> 02:17:56.159 Plus shocking your body is hilarious, right and also doc point, thank you 1448 02:17:56.280 --> 02:18:03.159 very much. Could you describe your experience diffusing your first few bombs? How 1449 02:18:03.159 --> 02:18:09.079 did your reactions before you're after and during change as you became more experienced. 1450 02:18:11.879 --> 02:18:20.719 Yeah, there's definitely that nervousness excitement of being a novice. So we're just 1451 02:18:20.959 --> 02:18:30.000 between so hard and I'd spend time in Iraq and then it spent time stateside 1452 02:18:30.120 --> 02:18:39.959 working state side response. Yeah, just things in you old things of T 1453 02:18:39.120 --> 02:18:46.000 and T from you know, farmers, you know, barn to something Grandpa 1454 02:18:46.079 --> 02:18:54.120 brought back from you know, the old War as a souvenir. And I'd 1455 02:18:54.159 --> 02:19:01.000 had had practice on some of these things before getting out to Afghanistan, and 1456 02:19:01.280 --> 02:19:07.360 yeah, you know, hit the prime time. But yeah, that that 1457 02:19:07.440 --> 02:19:11.920 first time, it's pretty nervous. It's good that we do that right seat, 1458 02:19:11.000 --> 02:19:16.159 left seat thing. You get to be right there next to somebody's been 1459 02:19:16.159 --> 02:19:22.120 doing it for a while, and then the watch over your shoulder as you 1460 02:19:22.239 --> 02:19:26.559 do it, and then yeah, you know, the last handshake, high 1461 02:19:26.559 --> 02:19:33.520 five, whatever, fist bump and it's your AO and by then pretty comfortable 1462 02:19:33.040 --> 02:19:39.840 in in the role. And before before you knew it, we were really 1463 02:19:41.520 --> 02:19:46.959 you know, running and gotten and doing doing tons of these things every day. 1464 02:19:48.120 --> 02:19:52.360 So it never it never gets boring, never never. Really, you 1465 02:19:52.399 --> 02:20:00.600 shouldn't ever get complacent. Or anything like that. They're explosives. Who knows 1466 02:20:00.680 --> 02:20:07.840 if the next next one just goes wrong. So it's always alert. But 1467 02:20:09.000 --> 02:20:18.200 you get more comfortable in your own skills, right become you trust yourself a 1468 02:20:18.200 --> 02:20:22.760 little bit more to be able to handle the situation ahead. And it also 1469 02:20:22.200 --> 02:20:28.319 is all about trusting your team and their abilities. And you know the other 1470 02:20:28.399 --> 02:20:33.920 resources, the other team, you know the key players on the battlefield in 1471 02:20:33.959 --> 02:20:37.680 battle space. There's a lot going on there and there are a lot of 1472 02:20:37.760 --> 02:20:43.079 resources at your disposal. You just got to remember that all of that is 1473 02:20:43.120 --> 02:20:48.559 part of your situational awareness. And Aaron, this question is for me, 1474 02:20:48.840 --> 02:20:54.360 how horrible is the hurt locker? And why start? And I don't even 1475 02:20:54.399 --> 02:20:58.840 call it that. I call it that ounch closet or pain cabinet or something. 1476 02:21:01.639 --> 02:21:03.680 It was so funny, you know, I was. I was at 1477 02:21:03.680 --> 02:21:11.120 the FBI Anti Terrorists office in Manhattan, you know that Joint person Center there, 1478 02:21:11.760 --> 02:21:16.559 and somehow that movie came up and I'm like, I was just complaining 1479 02:21:16.600 --> 02:21:20.879 about how stupid it made us look, and the guys like, have you 1480 02:21:20.879 --> 02:21:28.000 ever watched a movie with an FBI agent in it? The make it make 1481 02:21:28.079 --> 02:21:35.680 it all of us look stupid all the time, so welcome. Yeah, 1482 02:21:35.760 --> 02:21:39.239 yeah, you're right, you guys look awful. Yeah, I'm trying to 1483 02:21:39.239 --> 02:21:41.959 go ahead, please no, no, no, it's just that you know 1484 02:21:43.040 --> 02:21:48.719 who picks up It was like five one, five fives, all Daisy Jaine 1485 02:21:48.799 --> 02:21:52.520 together with that guard who just picks them up. By the way, you 1486 02:21:52.559 --> 02:21:58.120 can't do that with one or yeah, he's throwing smoke between him and his 1487 02:21:58.280 --> 02:22:03.959 like security. Like I just I had a couple of civilian friends like introduced 1488 02:22:03.959 --> 02:22:05.079 me that movie, like, oh, you gotta watch this, so amazing, 1489 02:22:05.120 --> 02:22:09.520 and I was like so angry during the entire movie. Though you guys 1490 02:22:09.559 --> 02:22:13.600 think this is good. There there there is one scene in that movie that 1491 02:22:13.719 --> 02:22:18.559 I liked that I can relate to this, the scene where he comes back 1492 02:22:18.600 --> 02:22:22.440 from Iraq and he's in Walmart, the grocery store, and he's just completely 1493 02:22:22.520 --> 02:22:26.760 overwhelmed by all the lights and all the the like super abundance of it, 1494 02:22:26.879 --> 02:22:30.360 right like and I had that exact same experience, like standing there for like 1495 02:22:30.440 --> 02:22:31.680 forty five minutes, like I don't know what to do. Yeah, like 1496 02:22:31.719 --> 02:22:37.159 what am I doing? It just left it was it was the only the 1497 02:22:37.200 --> 02:22:46.399 only pigs of truth or yeah, I didn't understand it was even if you 1498 02:22:46.799 --> 02:22:54.399 put aside all of the artistic license with the operations of Egody, it was 1499 02:22:54.440 --> 02:22:58.040 a terrible story. It didn't It was so disjointed. I didn't know what 1500 02:22:58.120 --> 02:23:01.920 was going on. There was the it. We just went from one stupid 1501 02:23:01.959 --> 02:23:05.879 act to another. There was no plot at all. Who is he fighting? 1502 02:23:05.920 --> 02:23:09.319 What was the what was the meaning of any of it? He just 1503 02:23:11.399 --> 02:23:15.360 did this, did that, said something stupid? And if I'm going to 1504 02:23:15.440 --> 02:23:18.600 die, we're uncomfortable. And then he's staring at some guy holding a battery 1505 02:23:18.680 --> 02:23:22.840 or a cell phone or something. They have a meaningful moment as they look 1506 02:23:22.920 --> 02:23:28.639 body broody at each other, and then he's standing in a grocery store and 1507 02:23:28.680 --> 02:23:33.959 then he goes back on the planet. Yeah, it didn't make any sense 1508 02:23:33.959 --> 02:23:37.440 to me. It was a terrible, terrible story. Yeah, and Aaron, 1509 02:23:37.479 --> 02:23:41.280 as we as we wrap up here tonight, is there any questions or 1510 02:23:41.319 --> 02:23:45.200 that we failed to ask, or any final thoughts that you want to throw 1511 02:23:45.200 --> 02:23:48.799 out there, anything you think we missed. No, you guys have let 1512 02:23:48.799 --> 02:23:54.200 me talk far too long. I really do appreciate you having me on and 1513 02:23:54.200 --> 02:23:58.280 and you know, have your ear and your audience here for a little while 1514 02:23:58.319 --> 02:24:03.319 telling my store. I hope it was worthwhile. I hope everybody enjoyed it. 1515 02:24:05.319 --> 02:24:09.639 I know I am. Sometimes it's not the best days, but most 1516 02:24:09.680 --> 02:24:13.399 of the time, I love my life all the time. I love my 1517 02:24:13.440 --> 02:24:18.520 life. Most of the time, I'm having a great day and I'm just 1518 02:24:18.559 --> 02:24:22.639 doing it because I love my fellow you know, service members, love the 1519 02:24:22.920 --> 02:24:26.200 you know, the veterans, my family. I love getting out there, 1520 02:24:26.760 --> 02:24:33.600 running, doing adventures, looking on my podcast, or you making fudge, 1521 02:24:33.680 --> 02:24:37.799 or investing in real estate. All of it is a really cool challenge. 1522 02:24:39.239 --> 02:24:41.879 Every day is a new opportunity, and I'm glad I got to share a 1523 02:24:41.920 --> 02:24:45.879 little bit with you. Guys. Well, thank you for so much for 1524 02:24:45.879 --> 02:24:48.040 coming on the show and sharing it with us. I mean, it's a 1525 02:24:48.079 --> 02:24:50.840 it's a great story. I mean it's a great life, and I really 1526 02:24:50.879 --> 02:24:56.280 appreciate you kind of like giving us a sort of like very personal insights into 1527 02:24:56.360 --> 02:25:01.639 it. We deeply appreciate it. For sure. I didn't even engine My 1528 02:25:01.680 --> 02:25:05.120 wife and I had identical twins, so I wouldn't be the only one that's 1529 02:25:05.120 --> 02:25:11.920 con choosed. I mean, there are a couple of things that have passed 1530 02:25:11.920 --> 02:25:16.239 by in the sense of you went on your first hunting trip and you or 1531 02:25:16.280 --> 02:25:18.879 you went on a hunting trip, you have the trophy behind you, and 1532 02:25:18.920 --> 02:25:24.360 you didn't Dick Chaney anybody. So Dick Cheney really has no excuse. Nobody's 1533 02:25:24.399 --> 02:25:28.559 gonna know about that in a few years. It's not gonna be funny. 1534 02:25:28.879 --> 02:25:31.680 What are you talking about? What the hell's dictaining? Maybe they'll google it 1535 02:25:31.760 --> 02:25:37.040 after they listen to this podcast. Oh he's been. Oh that's cool. 1536 02:25:37.159 --> 02:25:39.719 Yeah, to tell them. Uh. And then I think that you know, 1537 02:25:39.840 --> 02:25:45.239 with you know, you're running your mountain climb and you're kayaking everything you're 1538 02:25:45.280 --> 02:25:48.959 doing. The only with with Jack and I both been comic book gigs. 1539 02:25:48.319 --> 02:25:52.079 The only question is when are you going to dawn a mask and start fighting 1540 02:25:52.079 --> 02:25:58.959 crime. It sounds like you're ready for it. Let's go after bad water. 1541 02:26:00.680 --> 02:26:01.799 I don't know. I'm just taking a little time off, let my 1542 02:26:01.959 --> 02:26:09.079 toenails grow back. Darf man. You know, my wife and I really 1543 02:26:09.120 --> 02:26:15.799 love doing the fix them up our houses, turning them into rentals, and 1544 02:26:16.319 --> 02:26:20.600 building a portfolio. So I really think I'm just gonna focus on business a 1545 02:26:20.639 --> 02:26:24.559 little bit more, do the maintenance, maintenance, miles and you know, 1546 02:26:24.680 --> 02:26:28.600 stay fit. I'm definitely not going to be able to stay off the road 1547 02:26:28.719 --> 02:26:35.120 for very long. And I'm not gonna find a pretty cool ultramah thon out 1548 02:26:35.120 --> 02:26:41.680 there fair fairly soon. Amazing. Yeah, please stay in touch and you 1549 02:26:41.719 --> 02:26:43.799 know, happy to promote some of these things and put them out there as 1550 02:26:43.799 --> 02:26:48.440 they come about. And again, just thank you so much for sharing your 1551 02:26:48.479 --> 02:26:54.280 story with us. Thanks for hamm me on guys absolutely, and for everyone 1552 02:26:54.319 --> 02:26:58.879 out there, We'll see you guys on Friday with Tommy Shook, inductee into 1553 02:26:58.879 --> 02:27:01.920 the Ranger Hole of Fame, had a very long career. Excited to talk 1554 02:27:01.959 --> 02:27:05.479 to him this Friday. And Aaron you can hang on for a second, 1555 02:27:05.520 --> 02:27:07.120 and everybody else