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It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What
a great idea on iHeart Radio. Welcome

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to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And
with me is New York Times best selling

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author Jennifer Ackerman, and we're going
to talk about her latest book, What

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an Owl Knows. So, Jennifer, thanks for chatting with me today.

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I appreciate your time. Oh it's
great to be here. Thank you,

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thanks so much. So. Now, you've been writing about science and nature

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for over thirty years. What made
you decide to write about owls? Yes,

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well, I love birds, all
birds, but owls they're just so

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intriguing and so unusual in many ways. You know, we've been obsessed with

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them as a species. I think
for tens of thousands of years. Some

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of the oldest cave paintings show an
owl. But and they're they're just they're

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they're such skilled hunters, you know, they're called wolves of the sky.

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They have these amazing sensory superpowers that
allow them to pinpoint their prey and in

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darkness, like extraordinary hearing, in
vision and dim light. And they have

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these wings and feathers that are so
beautifully adapted that their flight is just you

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know, virtually silent um. So
I just wanted to dive in and just

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find out what we know about owls. And it turns out that we know

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quite a bit. You know,
We've been studying them for a long time

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now and and some new some new
technology has helped us really unearthed and solve

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some mysteries that have been around for
centuries. So it was a good time

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to write the book. Sure,
and like what okay, like a solved

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mystery, what is one that's the
most prevalent in your brain, that's something

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that we've all been like unsure about
or not sure about, like an unsolved

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mystery about an owl. Well,
one of the points that have really been

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illuminated is in their communication. You
know. We we sort of used to

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think, while a hoot is a
hoot, is a hoot, you know,

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But it turns out, it turns
out that owls have a really tremendous

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and elaborate vocal repertoire, and it's
actually their conversations are teeming with meaning.

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This is something we just didn't know. You know. They have greeting hoots

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and territorial hoots and emphatic hoots,
and they titter and squawk and squeal and

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all these different calls they communicate really
highly specific information about an owl's size,

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it secks, its weight, and
its individual identity, even its state of

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mind. Wow. You mean so
like if an owl is unhappy or it's

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stressed about something, it will hoot
in a different way for that emotion.

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It will, right, It'll reflect
it. It's reflected in its in its

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circalizations. And also each owl has
a very highly distinctive voice, so they

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can actually recognize one another by voice
alone, and those calls, those hoots

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are sufficiently distinct from one another for
humans also to fingerprint individuals. So that

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has been a real breakthrough. We've
been able to now monitor populations much more

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accurately. We can tell one individual
from another. We've gotten a window yeah,

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social lives. Yeah, yeah,
so I'm sorry, I mean yeah,

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I mean to interrupt you. So
that then that's provided a window into

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their social lives. Then like if
they're yeah, well we've also yes,

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exactly, we've We've we've got a
new window on their social lives and configure

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out who's mating with whom and whether
pairs are actually staying together. Wow.

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Wow, So I mean almost if
an owl is cheating on an owl.

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You we could probably know that now
by the way they're communicating, and now

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humans can understand that. Well,
that's just it. We thought that that

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many species were of owls were monogamous, you know, pears made it for

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life. But it turns out now
that we can actually identify by who's meeting

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with whom and when and where.
It turns out, to the great surprise

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of scientists, that there's actually a
lot of mate switching going on among whow

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yeah, yeah, you know,
yeah, this isn't supposed to happen.

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You know, it's like a soap
opera in the the owl world, and

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the owl world must be like freaking
out now, like, oh my goodness,

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they're they're onto us the humans know, right, wow. And but

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that's not the same with other birds. Is that correct? That it's more

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of traits of an owl, meaning
like other birds, that they don't have

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the same communications that you can recognize
that owls have. Oh yes, no,

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though other birds also have signature calls
and parents in particular, they can

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recognize individuals around them by their calls, so it's not necessarily unique to owls.

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But you know, we really thought
that that this, We thought that

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the communication of owls's very simple at
terms, it's very complex, right and

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and and full of meaning that we
just didn't know was there. Wow,

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that's fascinating. It's fascinating, it
really is. And I learned from reading

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your book that. I mean,
because everybody knows a dog, what is

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their most important part of their body, It's their nose. They do everything

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through their nose. But with owls, would you say it's their ears the

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same way as a dog's nose is
what makes the dog able to do all

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the things it does. With an
owl, is it it's ears in the

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same kind of yes, same respect, Yes, yes, yes. The

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hearing is so essential to an owl
that you know, they, especially owls,

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there's some species that hunt solely by
really by ear. They use their

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vision some, but they're mainly hunting
by ear, and their ears are just

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little holes in the in the sides
of their heads. They are covered with

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these specialized feathers that allows found in
But the it's what's inside those ears that's

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really amazing. It's the equipment that
they have and owls inner ears, it's

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it's auditory system. They've been described
as the race cards. The ferraris of

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sound sensitivity. And the owls.
Yeah, they have these really big cochlea,

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which is the hearing organ in the
brain, and it's this crazy long

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and owls, you know, four
or five times the length of the cochlea

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most other birds. And that gives
um like barn owls, a sense of

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hearing that's nearly unequaled in the animal
world. Wow. I mean, that's

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fascinating. These are all things that
the regular person, like the civilian like

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me, who just knows of owls, we don't know this stuff. But

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your book explains all that. That's
it's really it's very fascinating, I think

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because all of us always, you
know, growing up or whatever, it's

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just, oh, owls are just
wise. Now what is that about?

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Where did that come from? And
is it true? I guess they are

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wise, but they're complex systems.
But where did that ever start that owls

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are so wise? Yeah? So
I think that it goes back to Greek

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times for Assina, who was the
goddess of wisdom, and she had a

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little owl that she you know,
was supposed to be her her sort of

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a company, her, the animal
that accompanied her. But also I think

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it's because owls look a little bit
like us. You know, they have

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forward facing eyes, they have these
round heads, so there's something deeply familiar

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in them, and I think people
have associated them with wisdom for that reason.

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And whether they're actually and this is
one of the questions I wanted to

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explore in the book, is you
know, they have this reputation for wisdom,

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but really are they in fact smart? Right? And and you know,

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we used to think that they acted
pretty much only by instinct, you

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know, that the behavior was kind
of hardwired. But now we understand that

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they are in fact highly intelligent,
but maybe in ways we can't fully appreciate

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yet and have trouble measuring. Um, they're they're much more subtle, harder

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to read. But they do have
brains that are very big for their body

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sides, just like we do.
And they're also very flexible in the behavior,

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and they learn throughout their lives,
so not all of their behaviors hardwired

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by any means. They do they
do actually learn. Wow, that's it's

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almost human in a sense, right, Yeah. Yes. And one of

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the stories I like to tell about
this was an ornithologist named Rob Beauregard.

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He works with a species called the
bard owl and you know, you ask

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him whether alf are smart, and
he tells you this story about the wild

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bard owls that he trains. He
trains these wild owls to come to a

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whistle so that he can actually tag
them with a GPS tracker or retrieve the

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track or if he's already put it
on them. And what he does is

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he puts an mouse out on a
grassy area, and when the owl comes

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down to catch, at which it
will, he whistles, and then he

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put it's out. Another mouse whistles, another mouse whistles. After three mice,

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they come to the whistle and the
owls they learned this in a day,

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and it never takes longer than than
three sessions to get a bird completely

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trained. So that Wow, that's
very impressive. Yeah, that's extremely impressive.

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Like who would have thought that's something
even a dog needs more than three

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times? You know, I would
just think of training dogs it's something like

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that. Wow, Wow, I
would I would never know. That's a

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great that's a great example and a
great story. Um. I mean,

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you're you are very very very knowledgeable
about owls and birds, and I know

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that was there anything that you learned
U that shocked you doing the research for

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this book. You know, there
was something about every species that just blew

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me away. Okay, there's a
there's an owl called a short eared owl

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that has the wildest courtship ritual.
It does what's called a sky dance,

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okay, and it goes, um. This is a male bird goes shoot

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straight up in the air and then
it kind of drops suddenly and it claps

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its wings beneath it, and it's
it's a performance that's designed to impress the

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female. She's on the ground watching
all this, you know, distermining whether

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his performance is up to snuff.
Um. And there's also right right right,

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and there's there's a little owl called
the northern foe at owl and it

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uses its of to lure or draw
a woo a mate, and it toots.

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It has this very high little toot
and it doesn't this toot one hundred

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and sixty times a minute to try
to draw in a female. So some

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of these quitture rituals, which is
amazing. Um. And then I was

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shocked to learn that there's a an
owl that actually uh nests underground in the

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burrows that are dug by prairie dogs
or brown hogs. Armadillos. It builds

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its nest underground in these burrows,
and the males actually decorate the mouth of

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the burrows. It's hysterical. And
we're bringing all kinds of stuff like swatches

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of fabric and corn cogs and you
know, big chunks of moss and dried

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up mushrooms and and it's really a
way that the male tells other males,

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this burrow is mine. It's taken. You know, I've collected all this

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stuff. I'm a tough guy,
right right, It's like it's man cave.

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It's exactly right. But his female
is in there. She's already laid

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her eggs and she's nesting, so
okay, he's really demonstrating, Yeah,

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this is mine, stay away,
this is mine. Exactly. Wow,

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that's fat. I mean everything.
I keep saying the word fascinating because these

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are really really fascinating. It's all, you know, these facts are just

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who would know, you know,
like, yes, it is, it's

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fascinating. I don't think I've ever
heard that about any other foul doing something

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like that, whether it's you know, right, some birds like yeah,

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there's some birds that that decorate their
uh they're bower birds that I've written about

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in the past that decorate their bowers
to draw and a female. But it's

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all about courting and this is really
about territory and establishing territory. Uh,

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you know what there so true?
Who studies these burrowing outs? That to

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me? You know, if you
want to say you're a tough guy in

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the world, burrowing out you decorate
your home? So funny you decorate?

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I just love it. They really
are. It's really true. Yeah,

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and it's true of every species.
There's just something absolutely astonishing about them that

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you know, just uh, just
I find incredibly fascinating and uh and yeah,

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just they're they're so intriguing and uh. It was such a wonderful book

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to work on, and I really
do hope people enjoy absolutely. How long

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did it take you to put this
whole book together? Because I know it's

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a lot of research too. Um, didn't take you over years to do

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this? Yes, you know,
it usually takes me three or four years

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to write a book, and this
one was it was about three years.

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Yeah. I went out in the
field with some of the best owl experts

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in the world and watched what they
do and and really learned from them.

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It was a. It was an
absolutely wonderful experience. I went in Montana

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and Europe and Brazil, South America. It was really really exciting field work.

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I'm sure. And I guess did
you start this, did you start

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writing and doing your research? I
guess before the pandemic or during? Like

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did that interfere with your whole projects? Yes? Yeah, it was.

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It was tricky. Um, I
had to work. I do a lot

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of research at home, to a
lot of interviewing people by phone and zoom

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and reading a lot of materials.
So I had a very hence information gathering

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period. But then I did eventually
go out in the field, and that's

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the part of the research that's just
most exciting to me, and and and

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generate slots of really wonderful stories.
I mean, some of these people who

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study these words are just so interesting
and so wildly enthusiastic about their their bird

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of study, and they're just really
fun to be with and really fun to

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get stories from, I'm sure,
and they're probably also very excited to have

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someone like you interested in their stories
and all their information. Yeah, they're

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they're all of them were just to
a person, they were generous with their

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time and their expertise and just really
excited about getting the word out about there

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the work that they're doing. M
No, I'm sure. So the question

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that I hate to ask, but
I have to ask you are are owls

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of threatened species? Do we need
to worry about them disappearing like so many

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other creatures? Yeah? Yeah,
well, you know there are it's a

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it's a it's a group of birds. So there are two hundred and sixty

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species. Some of them are very
much threatened. Uh. There there are

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the biggest threat to owls species of
all kinds of habitat loss and you know,

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yeah, they're losing they're losing nesting
grounds and hunting grounds in old growth

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forests and in grasslands. And some
of these birds, some of these owls

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are just so um uniquely adapted to
a particular niche that they're really in trouble

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when they lose their habitat. But
there are other species that seem to be

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adaptable on The bard owl is one, and also in some places the burrowing

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owl in Europe, the tawny owl. So there are owls that that seem

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to be doing okay, and um, but you know, I just urge

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everyone to you know, support those
conservation and research organizations that are really working

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actively to try to protect these birds
and their habitat, because you know,

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I want people, I want our
children and our children's children to be able

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to see the owls that we see, of course, you know, and

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learn from them. Yeah. Sure, I was just going to say that,

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you know, for the generations to
come, they need to know that

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there's an owl and know and like
we did from kids, that it's a

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wise that you know, a wise
creature. So yeah, I mean you

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answered the question before I got a
chance to ask you, like, what

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can people do and support the organizations? So well, this is right?

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Yeah, I mean this has just
been so fascinating. Where can my listeners

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get your book any place where books
are sold? And I do have a

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website Jennifer Ackerman author dot com.
Oh perfect, So it's Jennifer Ackerman,

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author dot com. That is so
perfect. So I know your book just

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came out, and I know you've
done a lot, you know, over

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your your three years to do the
research for it, and you're you're probably

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not thinking what's next or do you
have anything that's next. I always have

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to ask that because sometimes people are
like, oh yeah, I have my

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next three books written, and I'm
like, what, but no, no,

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I do have an idea for another
book, another book about birds.

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Okay, I'm going to be kind
of owly about it and not get more

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specific. Oh I love that.
Okay, that's so cool. All right,

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So I will talk to you again
at a future date with your next

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project. But right now, Jennifer
Ackerman, What an Owl Knows, Thank

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you so much for sharing this book
and all of your knowledge and research with

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us, because it really is a
fascinating book and so many facts that I

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learned that I'm sure my listeners will
learn as well, including the photos.

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I love the photos that are in
the middle of the book. So so

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thank you so much, and thanks
for chatting and good luck with everything.

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But I do appreciate all your hard
work and talking about owls. So thank

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you. Thank you so much.
For Maria, was a delight to talk

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with you. Thanks so much.
Share has never been a greator operator.

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And just want to see you later. For the Gator