1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:07,400 My favorite drill is one that is the manifest station of trust. Let's say 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,160 a partner of takes a swing and you say, what was that? All 3 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:15,039 you're asking for is the number, and it's a number between one and ten? 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,600 How much trust did I have in ad swing? And ten is the 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,039 best? But anything seven and above you can shoot part if but well, 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,239 I never say to my partner, wow, that's a good shot. How'd 7 00:00:27,239 --> 00:00:31,160 that one feel? I asked of one thing? What was that? He'll 8 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:33,759 say, oh, that was a five? And I don't ever say, 9 00:00:33,799 --> 00:00:36,840 oh, what was that one? A five? No, The whole part 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,640 of it is that he must answer. Then I hit balls and what we 11 00:00:40,759 --> 00:00:44,520 say when we're in turnass and stuff and he's sitting there with the ball and 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,039 I can tell he's uncomfortable, and I'll just say, hey, man, 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:52,399 swing for ten. Hi. This is Brian Wise from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:57,039 I play at Makeshield Highlands Golf Club. This is Golf Smarter number nine hundred 15 00:00:57,079 --> 00:01:02,159 and two, My Pathway to fin I named Joy and Golf again with writer 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:08,319 of Winning the Battle Within, Michael Boucher. This is Golf Smarter sharing stories, 17 00:01:08,359 --> 00:01:12,799 tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score and 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,599 raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the 19 00:01:19,599 --> 00:01:23,120 Golf Smarter podcast. Michael, thank you, Fred. This is gonna be 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,079 fun. I'm really looking forward to this conversation because you're going to bring in 21 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:30,560 so many different elements of playing the game, of the mental game, of 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,400 writing about the game, and just stories. I just want to hear stories. 23 00:01:36,439 --> 00:01:42,079 I love hearing stories. But the reason we're talking today, strangely enough, 24 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:49,000 I got an email from a listener who said, I've been listening to 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,280 your episodes that you did, you know, bringing back doctor Glenn Alba who 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,840 passed away, And I've been listening to him and I realized that the book, 27 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:02,200 his first book that he wrote, was with my playing partner, Michael 28 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,840 Baucher, and I can't believe it. It's like he had no idea that 29 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,039 that was you. And then of course he bought the book, and um, 30 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:16,599 it's it's it's amazing that we get a chance to talk to you, 31 00:02:16,759 --> 00:02:24,240 especially after we lost doctor Alba this year. Yeah, I had a wonderful 32 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:30,159 time doing this book with Glenn, and I was was my idea in the 33 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:36,439 first place. I went to him really and yes, yes, I was 34 00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:39,639 living in Sacramento at the time, and uh, you know, Scotty McCarn 35 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,639 was around there, and I played in a lot of tournaments in those days, 36 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,240 and I was also working as a as a journalist covering a lot of 37 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:57,520 golf and I heard about Glenn from Scottie and thought, well, there's a 38 00:02:58,039 --> 00:03:01,439 there's something there, there's a cool book there. And he and I talked, 39 00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:08,439 he being a doctor altball and I sat out and talked, and our 40 00:03:08,479 --> 00:03:13,439 ideas about golf and our ideas about the mental approach to golf really meshed. 41 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:20,360 And so I said, let's do this and he said okay, And we 42 00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:23,639 had some fun doing it. It was really instructive for me, and I 43 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:30,240 think it was very helpful for him as well. And I can I can 44 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:38,800 share that with you because it was fun plenty of time. Glenn was and 45 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:46,719 very caring, intelligent and into you know, he was a professor at Universe 46 00:03:46,759 --> 00:03:53,199 Specific there in Stockton and had dealt with sports quite a bit. He was 47 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,439 a guy who had an idea here, an idea here, an idea over 48 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,960 here, but he had not really connected them all together into a theme, 49 00:04:04,039 --> 00:04:10,439 into a um. He just he had papers singular papers, kind of like 50 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:16,360 professors to okay, a paper on this right. And so I saw one 51 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,959 of one of the things that I was able to bring to it was I'm 52 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:27,240 able to connect all these things plus add some of my own. For example, 53 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:32,079 his motto, the perfect swing is the one you trust. That's that 54 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:39,120 was mine and really yes, that's been mine for some time. And I 55 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:44,480 said, what if we use that and tie all your teachings together with that 56 00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:49,199 as the connector, that is the bridge from one to the other. Because 57 00:04:49,639 --> 00:05:00,240 all of these things from the the practice um a little practice thing ide is 58 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:05,639 that we had to how you approach a tournament, to the pre shot routine, 59 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,439 to the post shot routine. They were all scattered all over the place. 60 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,680 But that's just the way Glenn was. He had he had he was 61 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,399 like a gold mine. But you had to dig around for the nights and 62 00:05:20,439 --> 00:05:24,639 then you had to put them all together in a bile at the end because 63 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:28,360 they were really scattered all over the place. But it just happened that our 64 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,959 two skill sets worked out well in this book and we were able to put 65 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:42,839 something together that I think changed my concept of golf along with I sat for 66 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,399 two hours well more than two, probably four hours in a room with Pete 67 00:05:48,399 --> 00:05:56,480 Carroll and Bill Walsh and me, and we talked. Both four very close 68 00:05:56,519 --> 00:05:59,959 friends. Yeah, both are very close friends with Glenn. Yes, Bill, 69 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:10,839 Yes, Bill was a mentor to, you know, to the guys. 70 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,720 And Bill and Glenn had come together at Stanford for a period of time 71 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,199 and at a school over there as well, and so they got to know 72 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:26,240 each other. And then Bill asked And of course for some people, some 73 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:32,160 of your younger listeners may not know remember Bill Walsh. He was the coach 74 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,199 for the forty nine or San Francisco forty nine NFL team, and he won 75 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:42,240 three championships and basically one of fourth because a new coach came in with his 76 00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:46,480 exact team and won the Super Bowl next year as well. Plus he was 77 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:54,120 as mentoring as any coach ever, so many coaches in the NFL had mentoring 78 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,120 under Bill Walsh. And he was one of the kindest people in sports. 79 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,399 I've interviewed a zillion people in sports, and he was one of the kindest 80 00:07:02,879 --> 00:07:10,240 and most thoughtful. Whereas Pete is big, Pete'll sit there like this and 81 00:07:10,319 --> 00:07:14,920 you're going, oh, there's so much energy coming out of this man. 82 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,000 I hope he never runs a third world country would be kind of scary. 83 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:25,639 But Pete is the kind of guy that and I played lots of sports, 84 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:30,160 you know, and golf ultimately became the one that I focused last on because 85 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:33,399 you can play at the longest. But Pete's the kind of guy that you 86 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:38,800 would ultimately run through a wall for. He is the emotional side of Bill 87 00:07:38,839 --> 00:07:46,639 Walsh, so to listen to them both. I coached basketball and baseball, 88 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,680 softball, even soccer. I didn't even know what I was talking about, 89 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,439 but the people at the high school knew I was a sucker to come in 90 00:07:54,439 --> 00:07:58,839 there and coach says kind and then they heavy coach volleyball. At one point, 91 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,000 I didn't even know the rules, so I had a team mom setting 92 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:09,360 next to me and I'd say, is that legal? But I had fun 93 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,680 coaching all those years, And right in the middle of that is when I 94 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,279 interviewed these two gentlemen, and I came out of there going, oh, 95 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:22,560 my gosh, I wish I would have known this information. First of all 96 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,720 when I was playing competitive golf, and then secondly, while I was coaching. 97 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:31,720 I became, i think instantly the next day, a far better coach. 98 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,879 Than I had been. And it wasn't fred. It wasn't like it 99 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:41,399 was rocket science. They weren't telling me about the metamorphosis of the seller salary 100 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:46,759 rum or whatever. It was. Straight on common sense is something both you 101 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:50,320 and I know, we all know, but maybe quite hadn't put it together 102 00:08:50,480 --> 00:09:00,519 the way, in such a logical sequential eliminate all unnecessary things way. And 103 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:07,080 I came out of there going sports is such more. It is so more 104 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,480 joyful for me now. I just and golf since then, Whereas I struggled 105 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,720 before and I would get mad at myself and what are maing? Fun? 106 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:24,080 Now? It's fun? Now, it's just fun. I have different routes 107 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:26,840 that if I'm playing well, I'm gonna have fun that way. If I'm 108 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,200 not playing so well, there's still a way to have a lot of fun 109 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:31,960 while you're still focused on the game. I don't mean to just go out 110 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,559 and drink a lot of beer and hoot and holler and pretend you're having fun 111 00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:43,039 to really truly have fulfillment. But those two gentlemen, in that conversation that 112 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:48,840 I had with them, and then I wrote chapters as if they wrote them, 113 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,720 and they put their name on it. But it came out of that 114 00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:56,320 conversation. So those are those are in the book too, what Bill Walls 115 00:09:56,399 --> 00:10:01,200 feels about it, and what Pete Carroll feels about it. It was just 116 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,679 I was just so lucky to have that kind of access to those men. 117 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:11,080 And they were disarmed, they were relaxed, They weren't trying to prove it, 118 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,000 you know what I mean? Yeah, Oh, absolutely, everything you 119 00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:20,320 were getting was genuine. And I completely understand because I've been doing these interviews 120 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:26,440 for such a long time and I've learned so much from some really amazing teachers, 121 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,279 and so I completely get what you're talking about. I've been inspired by 122 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:39,480 and it become a much better golfer, I think, because now some recently 123 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,480 asked me, are you a good golfer? I said, I'm not a 124 00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:48,039 good golfer, but I'm not bad. But I'm not as good as you, 125 00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:50,759 my friend, I'm not as good as you. And for also for 126 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:54,720 a point of reference, people who don't aren't familiar with Bill Walsh, but 127 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:58,279 if you followed football in any way, if you ever watch football and you 128 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,759 hear them refer to the West Coast offense, that's Bill Walsh, right. 129 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:11,720 And also my son was my younger son was at USC during the Pete Carroll 130 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,919 years. And yeah, and three of the four years that my son was 131 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:20,759 there, he was living with the starting offensive lineman, so he knew a 132 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:24,639 lot of guys in the team and he heard plenty of Pete Carroll stories, 133 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,759 which we're not going to get into today, because these guys did go through 134 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,879 walls for that man and never regretted any moments. We're going to take a 135 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,879 time out from our sponsors. Yeah, absolutely, so we're going to take 136 00:11:37,919 --> 00:11:48,679 a pause and we'll be back right after this. I would love to continue 137 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:54,759 your path of working with Glenn developing this book winning the Battle Within, and 138 00:11:56,879 --> 00:12:00,639 I love the perfect swing as the one you trust was your line and we've 139 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,120 been giving Glenn credit for that the entire time, but now you both get 140 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:09,759 credit for it. Tell me more about the development of that book and how 141 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:16,039 it was working with this academic about putting this mental game book together. Well, 142 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:20,480 he just that the process was. He just gave me a bunch of 143 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,799 his papers and they were scattered all over the place. Like I said, 144 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,480 they had no connection with each other. Yeah, And I wrote the whole 145 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:33,279 book from start to finish, and a lot of the stories in there are 146 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:39,720 mine, and I will tell you Fred that in the last As I get 147 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:45,320 older, I realized that one thing I've done in my career, I've been 148 00:12:45,759 --> 00:12:50,639 a terrible self promoter. And at first you say that in kind of a 149 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,080 humble bringing way, Oh I'm from the Midwest, you can't brag about Then 150 00:12:54,159 --> 00:13:01,799 you realize, no, that sucks that sex for real. You have to 151 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:05,519 be able to say what you did and let people know. And much of 152 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:11,639 that book, Winning the Battle Within came from me. It Doc had certain 153 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,960 things that he had for basic stuff, but a lot of it came from 154 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,000 me. But I gave it all to him, wrote it in his first 155 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,879 person as if he was telling it and writing it, but he wasn't. 156 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:30,679 I did, and he acknowledged that many many times. He would tell you 157 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:39,360 that right here. But I'm trying at this point to quit being so allowing 158 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,080 myself to be in the shadow all the time and actually take credit for some 159 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,799 of the things I've done. And I don't mean to take credit from him, 160 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:52,840 because anybody that knows him knows that he just had a great, big 161 00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:56,759 heart and a lot of knowledge about this kind of thing. But for me, 162 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:01,960 I played you guys grew up in Kansas. As I told you, 163 00:14:03,159 --> 00:14:09,120 I grew up on sand greens. And a sand green is not very big. 164 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,919 It's about as big as your living room. And you when you finished, 165 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:18,080 you took a big metal raak and each guy would take alternate holes, 166 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,919 like I'd get every fourth hole if I was playing in a foursome, and 167 00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:24,600 you'd rake it from the whole out so that it was nice and grew for 168 00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:30,360 the next players. So the green was always it was just sand. It 169 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,399 was just yes. And then what you would do when you got everybody got 170 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,720 on a green, you would take a what was called a drag, and 171 00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:41,120 it was a piece of wood like this with a handle, and you would 172 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,279 drag it so it would be all smooth out to your ball, and you 173 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,759 would set your ball on the smooth part and put, so you never really 174 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,159 had more than a fifteen foot put. It wasn't really soft sand. I 175 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,120 get. I gotta believe the ball had to be able to roll. Um. 176 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:58,960 No, it wasn't soft sand. It was always oiled. And in 177 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:03,919 the summertime Kansas, those iron rakes would get so blast and hot, and 178 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:07,480 it's so at the sand because we played barefoot. A lot of times. 179 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:11,799 It's had a whole lot of money. So the first time I played grass 180 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:16,279 greens, I thought I had died gone to heaven. Oh my god, 181 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,519 you don't have to rake them. It's not hot. This is ridiculous. 182 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,679 And I literally jumped up and down. I was so happy to know that 183 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,840 that was available. Oh my god, but that's I was in a real 184 00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:33,159 icolate little farm area when I grew up. I need to ask one more 185 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:35,120 question about these sand greens, though, I'm sorry because I'd never heard of 186 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:41,240 sandgreens before. Um, what would be the comparable speed on a stimpmeter on 187 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:45,120 a sand green? Are they slow? Are they very slow? Yeah? 188 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,039 So when you got to grass greens, you must have just been blown by 189 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,519 the hole all the time. No. I adjusted to them quickly. Cutting 190 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:58,720 has always been Yeah, you could just feel it. But what you were 191 00:15:58,799 --> 00:16:03,159 doing sand green is everybody would come over to that dragged area, and if 192 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,759 the first guy made it, you would put your ball right in the groove. 193 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:11,559 Ball man, he was trying to go down the group. But if 194 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,799 you missed it, you got oh man, how am I going to possibly 195 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,559 make it? See? Then you had to get an angle that didn't hit 196 00:16:17,679 --> 00:16:22,480 his groove, and so there was. It was a whole different technique to 197 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,799 putting, and an actuality. It made you think more, even perhaps than 198 00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:32,600 you do now. But so when I got to be a sophomore in high 199 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,759 school, I won state championship and thought, oh, you know, we're 200 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:41,000 just playing a lot of sports. And I didn't give one thought to the 201 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,600 mental game, the physical game. I just went on played athletically and played 202 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:51,159 really well. I think I just had sixty nine, seventy and one easily, 203 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:55,159 and so I didn't give it a thought. And then I moved to 204 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,159 Seattle, and everybody there was talking about the mechanicals to the game, and 205 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,519 I thought, well, I'm in a big city now. They must be 206 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,200 way cooler than I am, and none of them could play as well as 207 00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:10,279 me. I don't know why that never registered in my head, but I 208 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,920 just thought they were cool. They had better clothes, they had better clubs, 209 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,079 they played on grass greens, and so I started thinking, Okay, 210 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,119 we've got to be mechanical about everything, don't we. Well that screwed me 211 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,480 up big time, as you might expect. And I played in college and 212 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,279 things, but I would go up and down and up and down because I 213 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:36,960 was way too mechanical in my approach, and I'm better off just playing athletically 214 00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:41,359 and just playing, just playing in the imaginative mind, as we all are, 215 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,960 I think, But I didn't know that at that time. I thought 216 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:51,240 the more mechanics I could come up with a better and pretty see I'm going. 217 00:17:51,599 --> 00:17:55,160 You know, you imagine a basketball player get to Lebron James go, 218 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,319 okay, Lebron, and you go up for a jump shop. Where is 219 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,160 your left toe pointed? Okay? And think about that till you get one 220 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,720 foot off the ground. Then where's your elbow point You know, he'd be 221 00:18:03,839 --> 00:18:11,839 the tallest unemployed worker in America probably if he thought all that stuff, because 222 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,359 you never make a shot. Golf is not unlike that. It is you 223 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:22,240 have to get to a place where you're thinking in the imaginative mind, which 224 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:29,799 is a blend of mechanics and the physicality. But it's mostly physical. Golf 225 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:36,960 more than people. Most people realize is an athletic game. It's very athletic. 226 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,480 But everybody on TV, all the announcers, they all want to show, 227 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:47,759 Oh, he got it hung up back there, Bologny. Almost every 228 00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:55,440 bad shot ever hit is caused by you. Know strategy, aim or trust, 229 00:18:55,559 --> 00:18:57,799 And we have this in the book, and the strategy is the key 230 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:03,319 part, and so trust. The strategy is as you stand back behind the 231 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,839 sheer's ball, you've got to see it in your mind's eye. Where is 232 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,839 that ball going, how high is it going, and what's it going to 233 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,839 do against the wind, and most of all, where do you want it 234 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,240 to land? You've got to look within a foot of where you want that 235 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,599 ball to land, and that's in your mind. That becomes part of your 236 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,640 imaginative mind. So then you then you say, and I go through this 237 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,680 every time I have shots so automatic at this point, in fact, i'd 238 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:34,480 recommend everybody when you go to practice forget about practice in the mechanics, think 239 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:41,480 about practicing your preshot routine. And so you get okay, you see the 240 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:47,359 shot, and then you ask yourself, does this feel right? You know, 241 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,640 because maybe it's between a five iron and six iron, you're gonna bust 242 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,920 a six iron? Are you going to try a feather of five? You 243 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:56,759 got to make a commitment right there, and do you feel it? For 244 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,279 me, not playing as much as I used to, I bust everything. 245 00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:06,440 It's much easier to swing heart. Then to try to decelerate through the ball. 246 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,960 So you get your strategy and then you have to say are you ready 247 00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:15,160 for this? Do you commit to this? And my answer when I say 248 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:18,680 yes is I flip the club from my right hand to my left when it's 249 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,680 in the left hand. That means I've committed to this strategy, to this 250 00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:26,119 shot. I can see it, I can feel it. Not only see 251 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,960 it, but I can feel it. So then you get a bolt of 252 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,680 the ball and that's where aim comes into play. And that's that's fairly mechanical 253 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,480 because a lot of people right handers end up aiming off to the right. 254 00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:41,599 That the pros will say, we do that. We do that once every 255 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,400 three weeks we start aiming off to the right. I don't know why that 256 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,559 is, but you do. And you need to make sure you're aligned correctly 257 00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:52,440 because you can take the sweeter swing in the world and if you're aligned wrong, 258 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,480 it's not going to go as well as you think. So that's the 259 00:20:55,599 --> 00:20:57,519 aim. So you got strategy, aim, and then the final thing is, 260 00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:00,920 you know, take a deep breath, get ready to take your swing, 261 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,079 and you have to trust it. Do I trust And I'll tell you 262 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,200 about the coolest drill ever for me and we still use this all the time, 263 00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:15,720 my partners and I. And it's about trust. So that's the SAT 264 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:22,839 score, strategy, a trust, and you just run through those things and 265 00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:29,079 you know where is there time and space to go? Okay, I really 266 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,400 got to drop my elbow down. I've got to get the lag. Where 267 00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:36,680 is my left knee? Are my hips coming through? You can think yourself 268 00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:41,359 into oblivion if you want to, and if that's cool. A lot of 269 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,279 guys think that's the real mail way to do it. And the truth is 270 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:51,759 the most fun way is to combine that, but mostly be in your imagine 271 00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:56,359 of mind. But go through the strategy aim trust to start to begin with, 272 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,559 let's take another time out. I love this so much. I love 273 00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:14,880 this conversation so much. We're gonna have more when we come back. Michael, 274 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,880 you're talking about the SAT which Glenn talked about. We had him on 275 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,319 the show talking about strategy, aim, trust, that's yours too. That's 276 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:29,599 yours too. Those were his ideas, but I put them together so that 277 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:37,720 it came out SAT. The trust is a big part mine. But sometimes 278 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:44,319 the two of us would sit and talk or play golf and it would just 279 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,880 meld. We would say yeah, this and that and this, and so 280 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:53,319 to say whose is what's We hit it off because I think we thought differently 281 00:22:53,880 --> 00:23:00,680 in terms of just I like big picture down There's one reason I I struggled 282 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,200 in biology in school. They come up with the details first, and then 283 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,680 they try to build something, and I go, no, no, no, 284 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:10,640 no, you gotta think big picture, and then how do the details 285 00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:15,200 fit under that big picture. It's not one's not better than the others, 286 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:19,279 just the way that I thought, and blind thought in pieces rather than the 287 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:30,279 overall thing. So it came together. It's just I have. This is 288 00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:37,039 the first time I've ever taken credit for this, but it is the truth 289 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:45,440 and it was me to a large degree, but in terms of just taking 290 00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:48,160 a lot of what he had and a lot of what I had, and 291 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,000 then making making it makes sense, giving it a form, giving it a 292 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,799 perfect swing. As we start right off with the story of a kid coming 293 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:04,599 up to an instructor and I made this story up and saying, I want 294 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,960 you to teach me the perfect swing, and the instructor says, well, 295 00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:14,160 which perfect swing? The one Lee Trevino had, the one Tiger Woods had, 296 00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:19,720 the one that Jack Nicholas had or the one Ben Hogan had or the 297 00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:23,160 one Arnold Palmer had. Which one of those perfect swings do you want to 298 00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:29,160 learn? And the only thing these swings had in common really obviously they all 299 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,720 tuck it in at the end. I get that, But they all trusted, 300 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:41,559 they all trusted their swing. And I believe that the nine percent of 301 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,960 all bad shots, even puts, come because you come out of the top 302 00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:51,279 too fast. Puts, you put too fast, and usually the blade comes 303 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,880 open and you can almost I mean, I don't know how many times I've 304 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:02,200 seen a player who's not like the King of players that maybe somebody who's up 305 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,920 there for the first time and you've got a six foot putt, I said, 306 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,759 this one's going right. Because they'll come out of the back too fast, 307 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,640 look up open, the blade goes to the right. Some of the 308 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,119 better players will miss left because they're they're doubling over. They know they're they're 309 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,240 miss is right, and so they you know, it's it's like you're afraid 310 00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:26,599 you're going to fade it too much off the downhill line, and a lot 311 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,559 of players will pull off the downhill line trying to It's kind of like that, 312 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,640 but The trust element, to me, is the key to golf. 313 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,519 It is the key to good golf. Do you trust the swing? And 314 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:48,000 I think you have to build in a pre shot routine, and yes, 315 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,799 you have to trust the mechanics that you've been practicing on the range. But 316 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,640 most of all, this this is so fun. This is to me, 317 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,839 this was the best part of this whole book and everything I well, maybe 318 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,920 one of the best things I learned before you get there was from Pete and 319 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,640 Bill Walsh. I'm sitting there and I've been coaching for years for basketball and 320 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,519 stuff when we mostly had really good teams. But and I asked him, 321 00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:23,079 I said, is there ever a time when you yell at a player you 322 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:29,680 say yeah, to motivate? And I got that far in the question, 323 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:37,160 and both of them shouted at me, No, you never yell at a 324 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,400 player in derogative terms to motivate them. And I said, I wish that 325 00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:48,960 you would tell ninety nine percent of high school coaches in America this, because 326 00:26:49,559 --> 00:26:53,200 this is a key important thing that I've always thought. I've never thought you 327 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,440 yelled at a player to motivate them, that's but the irony is fred the 328 00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:03,480 one and I yelled at to motivate them was myself, and I would be 329 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,839 hard on myself going through college. I mean, I grew up in south 330 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,759 side of Kansas City, and the papers sometimes would would compare me with Tom 331 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:18,599 Watson's the next Tom Watson. Well, that just about buried me six feet 332 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,759 under. I didn't know how to handle that. I'm not Tom Watson. 333 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,559 I'm just some guy out there not even knowing anything about the game, just 334 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:33,160 playing athletically, and it happened to happen for me, and so I felt 335 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:40,559 I had this burden of and I didn't have a coach. My dad was 336 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,559 a professional athlete, but he didn't really take any part. And we'd got 337 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,000 play and he'd get real competitive, and so that was good. But he 338 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,079 didn't know any more about the mental game than I did. So it wasn't 339 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:57,799 really until I did this book that I connected all of the dots for myself 340 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,279 and went, oh, if you don't find joy in this, if you 341 00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:07,759 don't find joy in golf. And you know, you hear all the time 342 00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,839 the guys saying, I'm saying, oh, what's the takeaway? What do 343 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,200 you takeaway? He lost, he choked in the playoff, he lost, 344 00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:18,559 but what's the positive takeaway that you have from this? Well, I never 345 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,960 knew there was a takeaway. I just lost the loser. What are you 346 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:30,160 doing? So I was very very hard on myself, and it wasn't until 347 00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:36,200 I had this wonderful conversation with these guys and with Glenn and with others that 348 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,799 I went, oh, my gosh, this can be fun. And it's 349 00:28:40,839 --> 00:28:45,359 been fun ever since. Why ever, yes, I was gonna say recently, 350 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:51,599 I was playing with a friend and he had he chanked the ball and 351 00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:56,319 started yelling at himself, and my response was, don't talk to my friend 352 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:03,519 that way. That I like that. It's yep, as part of the 353 00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:08,680 book is self taught, and I've been pretty during good about that ever since. 354 00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,519 And I find that the guys I play with, you know, almost 355 00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:19,400 everybody play with yellow at themselves. Um, they stop within a rounder two 356 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,960 of playing with me, notcause I ask them to just be as they see 357 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:30,119 that I don't do it. And it's nice because the whole tenor of the 358 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,000 game, the yes, the energy, that's the way to put it. 359 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:40,640 As a lot more fun and we win a ton of team tournaments. Um, 360 00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:45,640 I think my partner and I up here he's probably seven or handicapped or 361 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,920 something. But anyway, we play scratch and I think we win about half 362 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,880 the tournaments we play, and largely because we're so supportive of each other and 363 00:29:57,039 --> 00:30:00,200 we know exactly how to get the best out of each other, what to 364 00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:06,559 say when it's almost like, I suspect caddies do that with their play. 365 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,640 Good caddies do that with their good players. Yeah, but oh yeah, 366 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,319 I can't wait to tell you about some of the drills that and these were 367 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,680 from Doc. Doc told me about these drills. Okay, we have time 368 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:21,720 now or should we wait? No, We're going to do it in the 369 00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:26,000 next segment because I'll put that make a note to talk about the drills the 370 00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:30,759 next segment because you kind of dropped a little nugget in there. Your dad 371 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:40,119 was a professional athlete. Yes, he played football and was a pretty big 372 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,839 guy and fast, really fast, and he was a fullback and he played 373 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:52,000 for the Lions. But then World War Two came about and everybody got drafted. 374 00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:56,200 Yea. You know, I often thought Ben Hogan would have been considered 375 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:00,039 by far the best player ever to live, but people forget he was in 376 00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:06,480 the military for four at least four maybe five years in his prime and did 377 00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:10,599 not play, and then he got in that car accident and did not play 378 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,319 for a period. You know, so youly in seven or eight years where 379 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:22,839 he could have won probably easily twelve thirteen more majors and surpassed Jack and Tiger. 380 00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,720 I think there was an argument that he could have been but if you 381 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:30,599 don't actually do it. Anyway, my dad went into the military and came 382 00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:37,000 out and they weren't paying that much for football players and things like that, 383 00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:45,319 so he became a teacher and coach, and yeah, he was I haven't 384 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:52,599 lost too many match play, but I lost my dad, so he got 385 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,559 you started playing golf. Yes, my mom was a She was one of 386 00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:04,640 the top five players in Kansas female and she could play and she had the 387 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,079 beautiful swing. My dad because it gets so cold in Kansas in the wintertime, 388 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,440 but he'd go downstairs in the basement and he put this old matt down 389 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,279 and he would hit into a big campus mat. But there were two pipes 390 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,880 up above, so he literally had to stand up in the middle of the 391 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,559 swing to get the club in between the two pipes, and then he would 392 00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:29,000 come down. He would have stand up about six inches, So that was 393 00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:31,960 his swing. When he took it out to the golf course, he would 394 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,319 have this cockamami swing that everybody went what and he would still shoot par under 395 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,599 because he could manipulate. He was great around the greens. So when I 396 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:49,480 was sixteen or I think, we were playing in the club Championship. He 397 00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:53,319 and I made it two finals, and they had cut off mom and Dad 398 00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:57,519 had cut off one club for me, an old wooden shafted club, So 399 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,319 I played with that all day. I just played with one club. I 400 00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:02,319 still remember the first day, I hit it a drive past my mom. 401 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,359 Yes, and my mom was so bad. My mom was very competitive. 402 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,039 She was mad that I hit a past her. I never let her forget 403 00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:13,640 it for the rest of her life. So my dad and I got into 404 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:19,279 the club Championship and the first couple of holes he missed short putts and I 405 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,759 won, and I looked at him and I said, Dad, if you 406 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,000 do that again, I'm gonna quit. And so I lost the next two 407 00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:28,480 holes on purpose because he had lost the first two on purpose, I knew 408 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:31,680 he did, and I said, now we're going after it, and he 409 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,559 beat me on the last hole. I said, well, I didn't mean 410 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,079 it that seriously. But we had a great time. So my dad was 411 00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:46,720 really my dad was the reason Fred that we were very isolated in this little 412 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:51,200 farm when I first when I was really young, and my brothers and sister's 413 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,799 a lot older, so they were at school. I was all by myself 414 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,920 all day, and my dad would read to me every night from you know, 415 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,960 great books, and so the characters in those books would become my friends 416 00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:08,880 that I played with every day. So I didn't know where love ended in 417 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:14,960 literature began. So my love for literature truly was even greater than my love 418 00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:21,920 for golf, and that ultimately one out golf was becoming very frustrating and just 419 00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:30,800 the idea of writing and getting involved with all of literature and bringing me back 420 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,840 to those beautiful days when I was younger. So I moved to northern California, 421 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,480 as you know, by Lake Taha, and so I spent all the 422 00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:45,280 time hiking around real trying to relax. To me, like five years I 423 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,599 didn't touch a club to try to relax from the stress I had put on 424 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:57,159 myself playing golf. And that's why this book was a real turning point for 425 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,199 me as well. And speaking of that, turning point probably the number one 426 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,039 drill in there. I'll tell you about another drill first, and this is 427 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:12,360 a wild drill. Okay, I promise we were gonna we will do the 428 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,480 drills, but let's take one more time out. Then we'll come back. 429 00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:17,920 We'll do the drills. I've already answered my question about how you became a 430 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,360 writer, why you chose to be a writer. But now we're going to 431 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,360 go into the drills right after we hear what's happened on Golf Smarter Mulligans this 432 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:30,400 week? Okay, this week on Golf Smarter Mulligans is an episode that originally 433 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:34,719 was a member's only episode, so it's never been made public before this. 434 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:39,360 Kennon Nicholson is our featured guest, and Kenny spent decades in the golf retail 435 00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:45,639 or hardware business, working for a retailer called Edwin Watts Golf, which is 436 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,800 now part of the worldwide golf shops across the United States. Edwin Watts Golf 437 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,280 was the very first sponsor of Golf Smarter back in two thousand and six, 438 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,000 and for a number of years, Kenny was on Golf Smarter every week answering 439 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:07,480 listener questions about equipment and giving away incredible golf prizes. Between two thousand and 440 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,199 seven and two thousand and eight, Kenny and I were partners on another podcast 441 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,719 for Edwin Watts called the Golf Better Podcast, which once the company was acquired, 442 00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:22,920 has now morphed into the worldwide Golf Shops Insider podcast and it still exists, 443 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:28,119 which I'm kind of proud of. Anyway. There was a different podcast 444 00:36:28,199 --> 00:36:31,559 from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two called Golf Better, but that's no longer 445 00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:37,519 being updated now the history of Lesson aside. In his return to Golf Smarter, 446 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:43,000 Kenny and I did an episode called if you like your buddies clubs so 447 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,239 much, buy it from them. If you buy a product that you believe 448 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:52,400 in, then you're going to use that product until something changes, whether it 449 00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:55,840 be your swing or the product itself, or you put another product in your 450 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,840 hand that is going to be better for you. And here's what I always 451 00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:05,480 tell somebody. If you hit your buddy's driver, and you hit it incredibly 452 00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,280 well, and you love that driver and you want to get that driver, 453 00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:10,519 they would always call us and say, hey, I want to buy this 454 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:15,000 new I'll just say the R eleven I hit my Buddi's R eleven driver, 455 00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:16,360 and I loved it. I hit it perfect. I want one. My 456 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,159 answer to them is, well, buy your buddy a new one if he 457 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,159 wants to sell it, and buy his golf club, because no two are 458 00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:28,679 the same. It's golf Smarter Mulligan's episode two hundred eighteen featuring golf hardware sales 459 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,559 veteran Kenny Nicholson. Please subscribe for free to both of our golf podcasts, 460 00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:38,079 Golf Smarter, published every Tuesday, and our sister podcast that revisits the best 461 00:37:38,199 --> 00:37:43,920 of the golf Smarter archives, called golf Smarter Mulligan's being released every Friday. 462 00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:53,079 From wherever you're listening right now. Okay, you're not a you're a writer. 463 00:37:53,679 --> 00:37:59,679 You've written golf books, You've we've talked to some incredible instructors. You've 464 00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:06,079 but you have drills to share with us. I have drills to But you're 465 00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:10,760 still you're still shooting bar these days. I mean, can I ask how 466 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,440 old you are? Michael? Yeah? Okay, how old are you? 467 00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:22,039 Michael? I'm not telling what you can ask. So I just played a 468 00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:29,760 tournament in Sacramento and shot six hundred sixty six of course I hadn't seen before 469 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:36,519 and pretty much clips the field. So I can still do it. And 470 00:38:36,679 --> 00:38:39,320 I will say that's far under my age. Most I would say, I 471 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,880 shoot under my age. My god, Yeah, I can still play. 472 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,639 I don't know why. I cannot answer why I can still hit it almost 473 00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:54,119 three hundred yards. Um they call h Yeah, they have a name for 474 00:38:54,239 --> 00:39:00,039 me at the Gulf. It's not all that positive because themotomy for being for 475 00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:06,119 being able to do that. So what's the name I was gonna tell I? 476 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,559 Wait, wait, wait, wait, I have to tell you. 477 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:13,199 Okay, okay. This is part of my plan to become a better self 478 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,119 promoter. I just came out of the new book, a new book last 479 00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:22,559 week. Oh congratulations, great, And it's called Michael Bauker's No Ordinary Days. 480 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,280 And it is a collection of my favorite stories that I did for the 481 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:35,880 La Times and Real Statists and the Golf magazine lots of other things. And 482 00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:38,679 there are are some golf stories in there, It's No Ordinary Days. There's 483 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:44,039 also a story in there about how I got involved a little too closely with 484 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:50,320 the Golden State killer. I did a lot of true crime, which is 485 00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:54,960 a bit worse than cheating at golf. I will say that these were you 486 00:39:55,079 --> 00:40:00,880 know, it's it's a it's a trip. The difference between interviewing Pete Carroll 487 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:07,159 and Bill Walls and interviewing a serial killer. There's a little bit of a 488 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,480 divide there, a little, but both of them are profound. Okay, 489 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,760 that word works in both cases, and that's probably the only word I can 490 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:22,039 think of. But anyway, it's Michael Backer's No Ordinary Days. So now 491 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,400 I instant on Amazon. You can't get it, and it is full of 492 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,320 We'll have links in the show notes for this so people can buy that book 493 00:40:31,039 --> 00:40:36,119 since they already own your other book, the one you wrote with Glenn, 494 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,119 the one with ken Well. And one of the reasons I had to write 495 00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:44,360 that one with Glenn, I had just done a book for Simon and Schuster 496 00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:51,159 called Fatal Deception, and it was about giant companies poisoning workers on purpose, 497 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,239 not on purpose, but they knew they were doing it for years. This 498 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,480 is real, this is true story. And ended up testifying in front of 499 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:05,159 the US in it for a week. On this I got death threats for 500 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,920 this. We were bucking multibillion dollar companies and it was gnarly and I watched 501 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,199 a lot of people die from what these companies were doing, and it was 502 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,880 tough, really tough, and I swore the next book I write is going 503 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:28,000 to be about golf, because I couldn't handle the emotional stress from what I 504 00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:30,880 had been doing and hearing people say we're going to kill your old family. 505 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,719 That's not a lot of fun. I'd much rather hear somebody say, you 506 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,360 think it breaks right or left at the end. So I went and took 507 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:45,039 my time writing, helping let me get this straight, working with Glenn and 508 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:51,599 utilizing his brilliance to write Winning the Battle within so two of the drills. 509 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,159 The first one is, this is the wildest drill I've ever done in my 510 00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:02,199 life. And you have to make sure there's nobody in in rains where you 511 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,519 might get. But you get over the ball and you're all set already, 512 00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:13,840 you got your target, and you shut your eyes and you swing all through 513 00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:19,679 to your finish. That is one of the most difficult things to do. 514 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,920 But what happened with me is that when I shut my eyes, it seemed 515 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:30,519 like a black background, and where my club went I could see it. 516 00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:34,920 I could see the path of the club like in red, and then it 517 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:40,880 would come through it was like what track man thing, But you can see 518 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,559 it and you can feel it, and if you trust enough, you'd be 519 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:51,840 shocked how many good shots you start hitting one after another with your eyes shut. 520 00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:55,880 It's stunning. But you have to trust. Yeah, I know that 521 00:42:57,079 --> 00:43:00,840 that's really true. And so many people I played. I played yesterday with 522 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:09,039 some gentlemen and neither of them broke a hundred and they just questioned themselves. 523 00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:14,840 They berated themselves after everything, and there was no trust in there at all, 524 00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:17,039 I mean. And one of the things that I brought up, I 525 00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:20,000 said, you know, They're like, well, you know, this is 526 00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:22,360 the most important thing in golf, and I said, I'd put it right 527 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,559 up there with trust, you know, I mean, And we talk about 528 00:43:24,639 --> 00:43:31,199 that a lot. Is trusting it and trusting the line, trusting your setup, 529 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,840 trusting your body to to do what it knows how to do because it 530 00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:45,039 succeeded in doing it. Yes or so thet Well, my favorite drill is 531 00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:53,719 one that that is the manifest station of trust. It is how trust comes 532 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,920 together into the game. And you can use this. We use it in 533 00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:04,400 tournaments. The people that I know that we that have learned this, and 534 00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:07,199 I don't know anybody that doesn't like, yeah, I can use this. 535 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:13,760 It is when you swing, you go out to range with departner and well, 536 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,320 there's a couple of different grills, but this one's the key one. 537 00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:21,840 And let's say your partner is going to hit three shots. It takes a 538 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,360 swing and you say what was that? And all you're asking for is the 539 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,920 number? And it's a number between one and ten? How much trust did 540 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:37,519 I have in at swing? How rhythmic was that swing? And ten is 541 00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:43,400 the best you know one you with, I guess, but anything seven and 542 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,920 above you can shoot part if you bought well, but you get a groove 543 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,320 and you begin to learn, okay, that was an eight, and so 544 00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:55,760 a lot of times that's all that's ever said. I never say to my 545 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,920 partner, wow, that's a good shot. How'd that one feel? I 546 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:05,920 asked him one thing, what was that? And all he's doing is turning 547 00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:08,679 to me and going and you can't go six point five ors, it's just 548 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,719 you know, just number six, seven, eight, nine, ten. 549 00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:16,440 They'll say, oh, that was a five, And I don't ever say, 550 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,920 oh, what was that one of five? No, you know the 551 00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:24,239 whole part of it is that he must answer then I hit balls and I'm 552 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:30,280 going okay. And what we say when we're in a tournaments and stuff and 553 00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:34,320 he's sitting over the ball and I can tell he's uncomfortable over something, and 554 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,880 I'll just say, hey, man, swing for a ten and that's it, 555 00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:42,199 and you just shut everything else out of your head. You swing for 556 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,800 a ten and you're thinking, you're feeling the rhythm and you don't come out 557 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,800 of the top fast, and boom you hit a ten and you get so 558 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,039 excited when you tune to your partner and you go, yes, that was 559 00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:58,719 a ten, and putting the same way, by the way, and that's 560 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,159 why I had some help. Yeah, you can hit a ten, put 561 00:46:01,639 --> 00:46:06,960 and miss, but it doesn't happen very often. Obviously, longer puts you 562 00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:14,079 of reading the green becomes the critical aspect of it. But basically it is 563 00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:19,519 for every single shot, shipping everything else, and all many times in tournaments, 564 00:46:20,039 --> 00:46:22,239 my partner and I will talk through the whole tournament, well, is 565 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:27,360 that that was an eight? You go okay, And what we're doing is 566 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,519 reminding each other the whole point of swinging a club is trying to swing to 567 00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:35,360 a ten, and you're not looking at the shot and go that was a 568 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,000 good shot, so that must have been at ten. That's not it. 569 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:44,760 It's not the result of the shot. It's actually the rhythm and the trust 570 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,559 in the swing. You don't even you could put a wall down so no 571 00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:52,440 one could see where the ball goes and you can still answer that question. 572 00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:57,880 But we do practicing all the time like that. And to me, that's 573 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,559 the single most important thing I learned in this whole book in terms of not 574 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,320 being an intellectual overview, but actually a something you can use as a tool 575 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,480 on the course, off the course, and actually you can use it in 576 00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:15,039 life. You just say, hey, man, I'm swinging for a ten 577 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,119 m I think you show you can say, yeah, that was a ten. 578 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,400 Now yeah this one is a ten. This is a definite. And 579 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,960 you've had I've had shots where the people my playing Barnsill go oh, nice 580 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,960 shot. I'm like, yeah, but I didn't like the swing, Like 581 00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:35,360 the result was great, but the swing wasn't that good. And we would 582 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,320 just say what was that, and you'd jumps the seven and we would know 583 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,320 all of that. What you just had to explain in three sentences. I 584 00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:45,360 know by the number you give me. Oh, you're an editor too. 585 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,599 Or he knows too though, because we've we've worked that out. We know 586 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,800 what a seven is, we know what a seven feels like. We know 587 00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:00,880 as a seven might be a groove high or but or I was had my 588 00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:06,000 blade open but pulled my hand shut just at the last minute, kept it 589 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:07,360 so it went on the right side of the green but didn't go into the 590 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:13,320 trees on the right. So seven is where you maybe have to make a 591 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,400 small move to make swing work. But a seven is still really accepted, 592 00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:23,039 and a seven means you still have a lot of trust because you're still trusting 593 00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:28,360 it through there. The other drill that I liked was again, you're with 594 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,440 a partner, or you can do this yourself and you get the ball, 595 00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:34,880 but it's easier with a partner. So I'm set up over the shot, 596 00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:40,079 and just before I swing, he'll say, or she'll say, women, 597 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:51,559 obviously this is golf is three, they'll say, low draw, and I'm 598 00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:53,440 standing over it, and I've got to swing and I've got to hit this 599 00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:59,400 low draw and I don't have even a second by the time he says that. 600 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,599 She's says that, and I take the club away, and then the 601 00:49:01,679 --> 00:49:06,480 next one might be high fade, and they're gonna mix it up all the 602 00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:08,960 time, maybe two low draws in a row. But you've got to be 603 00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:15,639 able to connect to that right away and figure out how to hit that shot. 604 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:20,320 And so when you're setting up then in a tournament or just in a 605 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,400 rig it around, you're gonna go, well, I've hit this low draw. 606 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,119 What does it feel to me. I'm going to make the call this 607 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,400 time. Okay, lowdow. We're gonna have this lowdow. I know how 608 00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,079 to do that. I've done that on the practice range. So that then 609 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:37,639 brings out the trust. I go through my preshot routine. I make sure 610 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,280 I'm set up right. I get set up. I already know what kind 611 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,360 of shot I want to hit. I can see it and now I'm thinking. 612 00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:49,960 Then I turn everything off, say swim for a ten, and then 613 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,400 you finish. And if you do miss hit the shot, then we go 614 00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:59,480 through a little process where you stand there and you try not hit anybody that's 615 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,360 walking by. But um, you know, you kind of go okay, 616 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,920 I want to feel. I want to I want to feel at ten. 617 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,920 Okay, I've just replaced that feel of a batcha with a ten. Now 618 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,400 I can go forward. So that's more or less the process. Yeah. 619 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:22,599 Yeah, We've had Rick Sessenhouse on the show multiple times. Rick was Colin 620 00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:27,920 Moricaua's coach from the time he was eight years old and all the way through 621 00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:31,199 when he you know, um, still I think they're I don't think they're 622 00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:36,800 working together anymore. But Rick would when he was working with Colin as a 623 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,079 young kid, he would say, you know, put down a ball and 624 00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:42,239 he says, all right, what are the three different ways? Are the 625 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,239 four different ways you can make this shot? Don't just give me the same 626 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,480 shot with the same club, So the low fade, the high draw. 627 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,039 You know, he would play situational golf with him. He would teach him 628 00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:59,280 situational golf, which was obviously very effective and it's fun and it's for me. 629 00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:04,039 I can't my shots, but but you know I have my intention. 630 00:51:04,159 --> 00:51:08,599 I know my intention. Sure you can, okay two buckets of balls, 631 00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:16,760 you appreciating two shots? I guarantee it. And what it does is talking 632 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,519 with Bill Walsh and Pete Carroll the other thing they said that was really critical 633 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,519 for me as a coach and as a golfer. They said, everything is 634 00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:30,360 about contingency. You never practice anything that you don't actually use in the game. 635 00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:35,239 Remember the old days in basketball, they'd line up and they throw the 636 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,320 ball up against the backboard. Next guy would grab it. He thought up 637 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,920 against the backboard. They said, when you ever do that in the game. 638 00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:43,800 You never do that in the game. Why would you practice it? 639 00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:50,159 So everything you do in practice has exact and Pete Carroll says, I hardly 640 00:51:50,199 --> 00:51:52,360 ever have to call a time out at the end of the game because everybody 641 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,599 knows what what we're going to do because we go over it so many times. 642 00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:01,199 We practice exactly. Believe what you do. So let's play that to 643 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:07,840 golf, right, doesn't make sense to hit fifteen straight seven irons. Do 644 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,280 you ever do that on the on the golf course? I hope nope, 645 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:17,760 nope, Oh yeah, yeah, yo, that's funny. Um, But 646 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,360 by and large you don't. So you try. When you're practicing golf, 647 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,039 it's really easy just to get out there. If you're going to do that 648 00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:31,400 ten times in a row, then rather than thinking mechanics a lot of times, 649 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,599 it's better to think, Okay, I'm gonna how many tens can I 650 00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:38,280 get out of the next five shots? And it doesn't matter what club you're 651 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:43,760 hitting. I'm swinging for tens and yeah. You can break it down, 652 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,519 say, okay, this practice day is going to be about mechanics. But 653 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:51,440 I don't think you're going to get much better. I think you will get 654 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:57,800 better if you say I'm going to swing for tens and yeah, yeah, 655 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,599 and it's more fun. Oh, I guess I'll have no question, no 656 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:06,159 question. Oh, Michael, this has been so great. I really appreciate 657 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:12,559 your time and responding to my request after I heard from your playing partner in 658 00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:19,519 Santa Barbara, and really looking forward to sharing the books and reading more from 659 00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:23,119 you and reading your new book too. No ordinary days, Michael Vauper, 660 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,519 thanks so much, Thank you, Fred, and I look forward to the 661 00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:30,199 days when you and I can see it up. That would be fun. 662 00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:37,440 All this episode is being published on the biggest summer holiday here in the United 663 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,480 States, but that wouldn't prevent me from delivering new content each week, especially 664 00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:46,199 what I found to be a fascinating conversation. And as we were chatting some 665 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:52,679 more after the recording session, Michael said something that could easily have been the 666 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,440 title of this episode, but goes way beyond golf. Of course, you 667 00:53:57,519 --> 00:54:00,239 can pick it apart and dismiss it if you'd like. But in the context 668 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:06,199 of golf and many other parts of life, I found this two hold true. 669 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:15,159 He said. The difference between adversity and adventure is attitude. Thanks go 670 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,800 out this week to Brian Wise of Philadelphia, PA for being our newest Golf 671 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,000 Smarter Ambassador. Like so many of our ambassadors, Brian chose Tony Manzoni's video 672 00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:30,960 of the Lost Fundamental as the gift that he receives for leaving a voicemail, 673 00:54:30,159 --> 00:54:37,199 which is all that's required to gain designation of you becoming a Golf Smarter Ambassador. 674 00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:40,800 You know you two are eligible to win one of three great prizes just 675 00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:45,360 by sharing with us where you live and where you play. You can select 676 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:51,480 Tony's video, a glove and glove storage compartment from Red Rooster golf dot com 677 00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:55,280 or a box of X one balls with a Golf Smarter logo from odin Golf. 678 00:54:55,679 --> 00:55:00,239 I'll leave a link in the show notes and today's blog posts that you 679 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:05,039 can learn more about these two fabulous partners. Send me an email and I'll 680 00:55:05,079 --> 00:55:07,119 get back to you with some instructions of what to do and what to say, 681 00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:13,119 and you too can become a golf Smarter Ambassador and brag to all your 682 00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:17,840 buddies that you're on a podcast. Just write to Golfsmarter Podcast at gmail dot 683 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,360 com or visit goolfsmarter dot com and click on the Hey Fred button.