WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:06.400 You're listening to kf AM sixty on demand KFI AM six forty. You have 2 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:09.919 Doctor Wendy Wealsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Welsh Show. I 3 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:14.000 am here from seven to nine every Sunday talking about the most important thing in 4 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:20.320 every human's life, your relationships, your love life. You know, people 5 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:23.480 think, oh, she talks about dating, like somehow it's some light fun 6 00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:28.399 entertainment. Now it's the reason why humans were put on earth reproduction. And 7 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:34.640 I really do believe that every single human behavior that we ever do is designed 8 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.920 to get us mates or maybe even expel amte or find a better mate or 9 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:43.719 hedgeoreproductive odds. The whole reason traditionally men earn money is to attract mates. 10 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:47.759 In fact, one of the reasons why so many young men are failing to 11 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:51.759 launch We're going to talk about that a little later in the show is because 12 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:54.399 they don't have to make money to get a woman anymore. They can go 13 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:58.079 to her well appointed condo, she'll pick them up in her tesla. Because 14 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:03.719 we're seeing a rise incessful women, and that naturally makes men less ambitious, 15 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:07.239 Like why do I have to I can get a woman. I don't need 16 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:11.959 to provide fancy dinners. I don't need to support her anymore. I am, 17 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.319 By the way, I'm not making a claim that we should go back 18 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.480 to something that existed for a short period of time, which is patriarchy. 19 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:27.719 The history of our species was always men competing for women's attention. That is 20 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:32.200 what men are supposed to do. But if you live in a modern urban 21 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:37.239 Western city, you can see that there's an oversupply of women, and women 22 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:41.920 are actually trying to compete for men, and that's where it becomes backwards from 23 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:48.120 an evolutionary standpoint. But I digress. You know how, I've always said 24 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:53.719 when till death threw us part was invented, death was pretty imminent and in 25 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:59.799 our very long life spans. Now even the most monogamous of people can expect 26 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:05.120 to two or even three long stint of monogamy. Show a certain power couple 27 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:10.080 has announced that they are also going to undivorce, have their cake and eat 28 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.560 it too, Kayla, Before I get to it, do you think it's 29 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.840 possible, producer, Kayla, for people to live in the same house after 30 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:23.159 they've had a long marriage and start dating other people? No, why would 31 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:24.879 you say, na Um, I just think it's just going to naturally cause 32 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:28.840 feelings of jealousy. I don't think that it's natural to see somebody that you 33 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.039 are once in love with, an intimate with being in love with and intimate 34 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:34.680 with someone else, doing what they used to do with you for someone else, 35 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.479 even if you don't care about that person, it's just gonna feeling. 36 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:40.159 Yeah, I wouldn't like it. Producer Christina, what do you think do 37 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:45.360 you think two people can after they've had this long stint? No way, 38 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:49.199 no, no way, dido what Kayla said? Your ego is going to 39 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.479 come out and just be a little ikey No, especially if only one gets 40 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:57.439 a hot day. There's a show on I believe Peacock called The Big d 41 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.479 and it's about divorce couples who live in houses and date other people and even 42 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:04.680 if they've been divorced and act like they don't care the second they're extarts. 43 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.759 I don't know how. Really, they don't do reality shows unless they know 44 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:13.319 there's going to be a train round. There's no such thing as a reality 45 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.800 show where everybody lives happily ever after. That would be so boring to watch. 46 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:21.680 Well. This week, former New York Mayor Bill Deblasio and his wife, 47 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.759 Charline McCrae, announced that they are separating after almost thirty years of marriage. 48 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:30.560 He is sixty two years old, she is sixty eight. They told 49 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:35.479 the New York Times that they're not currently planning on divorcing, and that they 50 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:39.479 intend to live together, at least for the time being. Most interesting to 51 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:46.280 me is that they say that they're both okay with each other seeing other people. 52 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:50.599 He might recall. Deblasio served as the mayor of New York City from 53 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:57.759 twenty fourteen to twenty twenty one. Some people are saying he's already exuding divorce 54 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.599 dead energy. He's even died here. They made a comment in the New 55 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.479 York Times article that was so creepy to me. He said something like, 56 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:09.080 hey, she said, can you put our phone numbers in the article? 57 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:11.800 And he said, should I go and get a picture taken at the gym? 58 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:15.199 Could you post that? Like they're using the interview with The New York 59 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.680 Times as their tender ad. They're gonna find dates pretty quickly that I'm not 60 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.680 mad at it. You know, this is one divorce, well, it's 61 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.839 not an undivorced whatever it is that I think many many people might be saddened 62 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:33.079 about because this couple was such a role model, right. They were an 63 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:39.839 interracial couple for thirty years, and on the campaign trail, she and their 64 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.720 interracial kids were out there saying, this is the new America, this is 65 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:46.800 who we are. You know, there's another thing about her. I did 66 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:51.120 not know she was a full on out lesbian when she met him. Really, 67 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:57.639 see, sexual orientation can be fluid a lifespan and thirty years. I 68 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.560 mean if she had girlfriends on the side, we would heard as politics. 69 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:08.360 Right. So I was reading like opinions from people around the web and whether 70 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:12.360 they think this is a good idea or not. A therapist in Northern California 71 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:16.279 by the name of Kurt Smith says it's usually the husbands who suggest these kinds 72 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:20.079 of arrangements, not the wives, and things tend to get a little bit 73 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:25.519 thorny when one partner starts dating and the other isn't. As I said, 74 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:33.399 they also many people talk about staying undivorced when they're still raising small kids. 75 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:36.959 I actually know a couple who did this. The dad moved down to the 76 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.079 apartment downstairs, not in the basement. It was like a hillside house. 77 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:46.040 Okay, so he was sort of down below in his efficiency apartment. She 78 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.800 was upstairs. They took turns or together, family dinners, raised the kids 79 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:54.360 dated separately, and it all worked out fine until the kid was grown, 80 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:58.399 and then they sold the house and moved their separate ways. So sometimes people 81 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:00.439 will do this, like you know what it is. People are trying to 82 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:08.160 find sexual novelty, but they also want to maintain their secure attachments. I 83 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.399 had lunch with a girlfriend this week who was saying, you know, I 84 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:15.120 love my husband, but not romantically, like we're just attached. And I'm 85 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.399 like, just attached, Like I think that's a good thing, right that 86 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:25.560 we look Julio and I my love, the love of my life, Julio, 87 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:28.680 Julio. I just love to say his name. I said all the 88 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:30.680 time, Julio, where are you? Julio, come here? Speak Spanish 89 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:36.759 to me. We have been we've been going different directions this summer because we're 90 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.040 dealing with our young adult kids and their travels and living arrangements, and we're 91 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:44.360 all over the place. So I had not seen him in more than a 92 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:48.000 week. And I got back to his bed last night, and I have 93 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:53.319 to say something. I have been feeling very sleepy. I slept long and 94 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:57.240 hard all day today, I felt kind of relaxed. I took a nap. 95 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.759 I'm like, why am I feeling so sleepy? And I realized, 96 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:05.120 when we are apart my attachment, anxiety turns into energy. I get a 97 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:08.560 million things done. I gotta do this. I go to like, I 98 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:14.439 gotta stay distracted and busy so I won't feel sad and missing him. And 99 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:18.279 then as soon as I'm with him, my neurochemistry, my whole body resets 100 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:24.360 and I just want to, like take a nap. And that's what a 101 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:29.560 healthy, secure attachment does. It's not like hot, hot, hot romantic 102 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:33.240 attachment. It's a feeling of calm, It's a feeling of peace. You 103 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:38.720 look perplexed, Producer, Kaylin No, because I'm curious because you before the 104 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:42.040 statement earlier about your friend who now says that she loves her husband but she's 105 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:45.279 not in love with him. Is that something that naturally happens over like a 106 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:47.120 long period of time, over a lifespan, when you're with somebody for a 107 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.480 long time. Yes, But later in the show, I want to talk 108 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:53.879 about great research from some of your favorite people, the gotments at the Marriage 109 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:59.639 Lab. They have ten things to do before you try divorce. Ten things 110 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:01.959 to try before you try divorce. We'll talk about that a little later in 111 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:07.279 the show. Yes, relationships get boring. Yes it is up to you 112 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.600 know. But when I used to come in in the summer when I was 113 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.800 a kid, and I'd say to my mom, I'm bored. I'm bored. 114 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.680 I'm bored. You know what my mom would say, If you're bored, 115 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.279 you're boring. Go out and be exciting. So we have to make 116 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:28.639 our own excitement. There is a difference between being attached and being attracted to 117 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:33.440 somebody, and it is possible to get that attraction back through working with a 118 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:37.120 couple's counsel or a sex therapist. You're just doing a few little things. 119 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.639 But like Kyla said, I want to remind everybody it's really dangerous to play 120 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.799 with fire. Do not mess with sexual jealousy. It is in your unconscious. 121 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.639 If you want a picture of what your unconscious looks like, picture an 122 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:54.919 iceberg with a tiny tip above the water. That is your consciousness. That's 123 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:58.120 what you're aware of. That's what you know, and then like ten times 124 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:03.080 the size under the surface waiting to erupt like a volcano. So I'm not 125 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.679 suggesting. I mean people try to find ways to have their cake and eat 126 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:11.559 it too. I'm not suggesting people try these open marriages. There is a 127 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.480 small percentage of people who can achieve it, and boy are they vocal online. 128 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:18.720 They're trying to make it seem like it's normal now and everybody's doing it. 129 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:24.200 No, it's a very small percentage. Didn't we have the researcher from 130 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:28.799 the Kinsey Institute on our show, Kayla, who has studied polyamorous couples. 131 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.440 Oh yeah, she said, very few have been able to last more than 132 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.399 one year. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating people exposed. I think people 133 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.559 do this. You know. Here's my take on what's happening with former mayor 134 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:43.360 Bill de Blasio and his not really a strange wife, Charley McCrae, the 135 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.000 undivorced wife. I think they're both really good politicians, and I think they're 136 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.919 putting a really excellent spin on this. But no matter what you say, 137 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:54.440 this is the end of their marriage, and this is how they're trying to 138 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.399 do it because they have to do it publicly in some way. All Right, 139 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:00.279 when we come back, I'm going to tell you a story of how 140 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:07.360 once upon a time even I was catfished by somebody online. Let's talk about 141 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.000 romance scams when we come back. You are listening to The Doctor Wendy Walsh 142 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:15.440 Show and KFI AM six forty We Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're 143 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.399 listening to kf I Am six forty on demand kaf I Am six forty. 144 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.519 I've talked to Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Talk to Wendy Walls 145 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.879 Show. What a fool beliefs, Kayla, did you really pick that song 146 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.279 right before I'm going to tell you a time that I was catfish? I 147 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.399 did not, That was all prettina. What a fool belief? I love 148 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.720 Michael McDonald. Do you remember I love him too? Do you remember the 149 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:43.279 movie The Tinder Swindler that last year or yeah, okay, about that guy 150 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.320 who managed to trick all these women into young women to clearing out their bank 151 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.679 accounts, and he would do it. He was such a sociopath that he 152 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.399 would fly them on private jets to dates and they didn't know that the last 153 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.360 five women were paying for the private jet. Right. It was so well 154 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:03.159 done, messed up. But the thing that made me so mad about it 155 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:09.320 is how attacked. These women were online saying they're so stupid, so stupid. 156 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.399 So I thought it would just start the ball rolling by telling you that 157 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:18.679 our brain when we start to get attracted to somebody, when we start to 158 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:26.039 fall in love, our brain becomes literally delusional. There's nothing we can do 159 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:30.519 about it. You see, Mother nature made it that way so that we 160 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.279 would overestimate the value of a mate, so that we would get together and 161 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:37.720 bond. If we spent all our time looking only at red flags, going 162 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.120 no, not for me, not for me, not for me, we 163 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.919 would never procreate. Right, So instead, the other thing happens, this 164 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.360 hazy glow of ah, they're perfect, right. Is it awful when you're 165 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.799 one of your girlfriends Kayla and Christina is in a new relationship and you have 166 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:56.600 to hear them talk about them all the time, and you're like, it's 167 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:58.399 not that great. Oh my god. Yeah, when my best friend met 168 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:03.080 her husband and get a word in edge by Joe Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo 169 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.200 Jo Jojo, all right, I gotta go by Yeah, it's natural. 170 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.720 This is natural. So when my kids were little, I think a lot 171 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.639 of you know, I was a single mom for eighteen years. When my 172 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.399 kids were little, they were lonely moments, and I would go on those 173 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.519 apps. I heard, by the way, that the most common user on 174 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.600 match dot com is a single mother around forty with two kids. Right, 175 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.200 you were lonely, lonely nights, got your glasses show today, the kids 176 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.279 are in bed. You got no money for a babysitter, so you'd go 177 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:37.000 on those apps and start swiping. Yeah. So one night there's this guy. 178 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:41.279 His name's Chris, He's super gorgeous. He's in Toronto. I'm Canadian, 179 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:43.879 I'm migo great. He gave up the phone number really fast, because 180 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.000 I'm a big believer, just get on the phone right away. And so 181 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:50.159 we started chatting on the phone in the evenings, and he said he acted 182 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.000 sheepish and said that his sister made the profile for him and all these women 183 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.399 are you know, hidden up on him and he didn't even know, and 184 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:03.960 bah blah, and we were talking, you know, we very quickly started 185 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.960 talking quite regularly, a couple of times a day, right within about two 186 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.519 weeks. And then one night, Thank goodness, my unconscious informs me so 187 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.519 well, and often does it during the week hours of the night while I'm 188 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:24.039 asleep, I had this dream that I was trapped in this hotel room with 189 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:35.000 a very ugly man with six hands who weighed like six hundred pounds, and 190 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.600 I could not get out, and I was running around and he was chasing 191 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.320 me and chasing me and chase me. It was a nightmare. It was 192 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:46.399 a terrible nightmare. So the next morning, I wake up shook, and 193 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:50.399 I go on and I start googling, and I find this guy's first and 194 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.120 last name is the name of a sports reporter at the Toronto Star. But 195 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:58.679 this isn't the business that he says. That's a newspaper that he says. 196 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.279 He bet so I call this sports report. I sent him an email. 197 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:03.240 It's a person. He's like, no, don't know what you're talking about. 198 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.840 Some of the same name or whatever. Anyway, Then when my daily 199 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:11.559 phone call comes from my paramoura, I tell him about this nightmare, and 200 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.320 he says one sentence that trips me off. He says, what's wrong? 201 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.360 Don't you trust me? The way he said it was so fake, so 202 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.559 creepy, so wrong. I hung up. I blocked before I blocked. 203 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.279 Of course, I'm a woman of words. I wrote the longest, craziest 204 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.080 text over diagnosing him. I was in psychology school at the time. I 205 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.399 think you have a psychological disorder. I mean I literally was just diagnosing him 206 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:45.120 and I let him go. So I tell you the story to assure you 207 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:50.960 that if anything similar has ever happened to you, you are normal. A 208 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:56.399 woman with a PhD and great insight and in therapy can be tricked. You 209 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.840 can be tricked too, whether you're a male or female, O matter what 210 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:05.720 your age. In fact, according to one survey in twenty twenty two alone, 211 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.679 more than seventy thousand Americans reported not just a catfish, a full on 212 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:18.519 romance scam, and reported losses of what I'm going to say. The number 213 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.039 I'm going to say is correct, you're not misshearing me. One point three 214 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:31.080 billion dollars. One point three billion dollars went out to pretend people huh okay. 215 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.399 So the most common victim is a woman aged forty five to seventy. 216 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:39.519 There was one study done by the Italians and they describe the average victim this 217 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:45.639 way, female middle age, higher levels of neuroticism. Is that me neurotic 218 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:52.360 tendencies to romance for romantic idealization like I believe in movie endings. I love 219 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:58.440 reading romance novels, sensation seeking that's me. We like touch, we like 220 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.519 cuddling in pulse of that's not me. And oh, susceptibility to addiction, 221 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.919 that's not me. But if you're any of those things, you are highly 222 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:14.840 vulnerable. So here's another new trend. These romance scammers are targeting older retired 223 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:19.440 Americans. Old people have been known to mortgage their homes, borrow large amounts 224 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.519 of money from their neighbors, empty out their retirement counts. There was one 225 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:29.000 I read about in the New York Times about, oh, I can't even 226 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:33.120 say it, a Holocaust survivor who was swindled out of his life savings of 227 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:37.240 nearly three million dollars. I know. Also, I do want to say 228 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:41.200 when I'm talking about old people being easily susceptible young people, if you're sitting 229 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.399 there all smugs saying I'm a digital native, Okay, I can tell when 230 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.919 it's a fake profile. I can tell you know where your most susceptible, 231 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.279 you, young people, to retail scams. Yeah, buying all those designers 232 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.039 sneakers online that never show up after you've given your money. Uh huh. 233 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:03.360 Retail scams and fake job off where you put in your social Security number on 234 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.319 the internet because you think the job is such a big deal and then they 235 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.079 have all your information. So this morning, my sweet Julio said, you've 236 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.359 got to read this article. The article is published in something called The Activist 237 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:21.799 magazine. It publishes apparently this is their slogan, one incredible true story every 238 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.960 month, and they specialize in long form narratives. I ate it up and 239 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.920 drank it in and savored it like you wouldn't believe. Kayla, We've got 240 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:33.480 to get this author on the show if you can reach out to him. 241 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.799 Here's the title of the article, The romance Scammer on My Sofa. A 242 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:45.119 writer's request to find the con artist in Nigeria who duped his mother. I 243 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.519 know Carlos Barragan br r agam. We gotta find him. Carlos response to 244 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.240 my email. Please Carlos, if you're listening, you'll have to respond. 245 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.279 Okay. So he goes to Nigeria. Okay, let's tell the story. 246 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:59.759 He lives in Spain. Well, he lives in New York, NAPA. 247 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.200 Three boys were raised in Madrid by a single mom who was fairly successful. 248 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:08.680 She owned like dental clinics or something, and what kids don't understand about single 249 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.000 parents as we're lonely. We're with them all the time, we're laughing, 250 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.119 we're playing games. We're lonely, okay, because it's not the same. 251 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.720 So when the three boys are in their early twenties and they're flying off in 252 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.839 different areas, she finds an online love and at first they think it's funny 253 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:29.000 and silly and whatever, until they start to suspect that something's up. I'll 254 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.960 explain when we come back. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show 255 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:36.920 on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're 256 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.640 listening to kf I AM six forty on demand KIM six forty. You have 257 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.880 Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. We're 258 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:52.039 talking about romance scams and a story came out today in the Atavist magazine about 259 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.839 a young man. He and his brothers discovered that their mother was seeing someone 260 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:02.640 online. It had been a number of months. They noticed her go from 261 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.839 kind of depressed to giddy and happy all the time, so they let it 262 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.279 go. The three young adult brothers, who were going different directions and their 263 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:15.920 lives, didn't pay much attention to it. This young writer ends up going 264 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:22.440 to Nigeria to find his mother's scammer because at a certain point, the sons 265 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:27.160 get concerned. They realized she's spending too much time texting with them. She's 266 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:33.039 talking about him all the time. She said, he's an American, he's 267 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.599 stationed abroad, he's in the military, and this and that, and they 268 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.880 just said he's a scammer. It was so hard for them to prove to 269 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.519 her that he was a scammer. They actually found a way, because you 270 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.079 know, they're young and in their twenties in the tech business whatever. They 271 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.000 found a way to find out what the IP address was and they found out 272 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.039 that it was in Laos. I said, they're right, Lagos, Lagos, 273 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:03.480 La Lagos, La most Nigeria. So he says to Mom, would 274 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.440 you feel better if I just went there and found him, the so called 275 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:12.400 Brian and find out why he did this to you? Because she was heartbroken 276 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:18.400 over this. Now, no one has been able to figure out how many 277 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.279 romance scammers are in Nigeria. It is a full on business. Some young 278 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.880 men are making as little as thirty and forty dollars a month working for very 279 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:32.319 large syndicates where there are houses packed with young men who smoke weed all day 280 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.640 long and play video games and talked to twenty and thirty and forty men and 281 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:41.359 women in America pretending to be lots of different profiles. They have a name 282 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:48.279 which is the Yahoo Boys based on the Yahoo email accounts. They're online fraudsters. 283 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:55.759 They bottom line, they pretend to be other people online to seduce foreigners. 284 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.920 The most interesting thing about this article he found a number of Yahoo Boys 285 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.960 who allowed him to infiltrate their world and he got to figure out how they 286 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.519 actually do what they do. First thing they do, folks, is they 287 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.960 start stealing all our pictures from Facebook and Instagram and whatever and start making fake 288 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:18.720 profiles. Now, these are to create what are called legacy profiles. Sometimes 289 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.960 they have a profile alive online for up to two years before they activate it 290 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:27.359 as a scamming profile because they want it to attract lots of friends and look 291 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:32.079 like it's been there for a long time. They also, because they work 292 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:36.640 in a syndicate, sit there with ten other people who have ten other fake 293 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.279 profiles and say you friend mine, all friend yours, So they create a 294 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:45.519 whole network of accounts. Right. Then when they think the profile is legitimate 295 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:51.960 enough, they start bombing social media. Have you guys ever gotten those dms 296 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.119 on Instagram that just say hi or hey, like nice profile pick? Or 297 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.759 hey I'm looking for a sugar baby? Yeah, where do I side? 298 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.400 It's too obvious. Sometimes they start quiet and little with a high yeah or 299 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.720 a nice profile pick, right, something like that. I mentioned. They 300 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.400 work in teams. They may have other people posing as their own business as. 301 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.759 Okay, so let's say they have a fake profile they say, oh, 302 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.960 I work for so and so law firm. So then the person checks 303 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.480 and says, oh, yeah, they're friends with that lawyer and that thing. 304 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.200 Because they have all kinds of people posing as business partners, lawyers, 305 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.400 family members, friends, acquaintanance because it strengthens the credibility of that profile. 306 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:37.440 Then they go really slowly to build intimacy. One of the scammers Yahoo boys 307 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.920 as they're called, said, there's no rhyme or reason. Some people it 308 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.559 takes three months before there you can get money out of them. Some people 309 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:49.559 a month, some people a week, some people two days. Right, 310 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:56.319 he said, you just know when they're ready, right, So it's not 311 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.759 just dating apps they mostly the number one place they find you is just on 312 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:04.240 your regular social media accounts, Facebook, Instagram. They just send you a 313 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:11.279 private message. But here's how they work. They pay really close attention to 314 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.519 what you share with them, and they don't miss a beat becoming your perfect 315 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.240 match. Look, whether you're romance, scammed online or not, everyone should 316 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.920 listen to this. This is what people do on dates. They just listen 317 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.759 to what you say and reflect back. Oh yeah, me too, Oh 318 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:29.680 yeah, I like that too. So whatever you're into, they're into. 319 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.480 If you're looking to settle down, they're ready too. But there's always one 320 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:40.599 huge red flag. They can't meet in real life. But there's always a 321 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.480 good reason or why they can't meet. They're either stationed abroad in the military, 322 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.279 or they're working on an oil rig, or they're taking care of aging 323 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:53.839 parents or children or whatever, and they can't come just yet. But you 324 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.480 are the love of their life and they can't believe they happen to meet you. 325 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.440 You know, the journalist Carlos Barragan who went over to Nigeria to look 326 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.640 for the guy who duped He never found him that duped his mother. When 327 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.359 he infiltrated he tried to get into the psychology of these guys, these hundreds 328 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.960 of thousands, and what he found out is that the employment rate among fifteen 329 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:21.319 to thirty four year olds in Nigeria is more than fifty percent, and the 330 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:25.160 average monthly income for those who are employed is the same as it was in 331 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.319 nineteen eighty. Many of them complain that the government's corrupt, they're taking all 332 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:34.160 the money. They also believe it's a kind of reparations for colonialism, for 333 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.200 slavery that they just say, they use this term they're just taking it from 334 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.039 the whites, and they say that's there, it's owed to them. They 335 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.440 have kind of a robin Hood mentality, right that I'll rob from the rich 336 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.400 to give to the poor. The most common reasons they do ask for money 337 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.400 when they finally do, is they have a sick relative who's because some hospital 338 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.480 bills. The big one now is they want to help you, help you 339 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.599 invest in crypto. They have a friend in crypto and they can help you. 340 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:03.720 And where they're posing to be an American somewhere right you don't know. 341 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.200 You're talking to somebody in Nigeria. They want you to wire money to buy 342 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.599 a plane ticket so they can come see you, they want you. They 343 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.400 want to send you a special gift, except there's an extra customs fee, 344 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.920 and if you could just wire them the money for the customs fee, they 345 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:19.119 could send you the gift. If they're a girl, they want you to 346 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.039 pay or posing to be a girl, they want you to pay for childcare 347 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:26.680 so you can come to see them. There is also a very very dark 348 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:33.119 side to romance scams besides stealing money, called sextortion. This is where they 349 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.880 ask for explicit photographs of you, and when you try to block them and 350 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.279 move off, they tell you that they are friends with all your family members 351 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.680 and they're going to post all those pictures online send them to everybody unless you 352 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.920 send them money. The other thing many people unknowingly become victims of is something 353 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.359 called a money mule. They say, I'm going to wire this money into 354 00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:56.880 your account for this reason and that reason, because my friend needs it for 355 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:02.079 this as hospital, whatever, and you don't know it until you're called up 356 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:08.279 in federal court and going to jail because you're actually laundering illegal money. Okay, 357 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.400 we don't want to become victims of a romance scam, Dowe, nobody 358 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:19.880 does. I told you it's never your fault. Our brain when we feel 359 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.279 lonely. And remember a few weeks ago the Surgeon General said, the biggest 360 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:29.200 epidemic we have right now is loneliness. Your brain goes into I want to 361 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.440 bond. We are wired to bond, We are wired to fall in love. 362 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:34.480 It is never a character flaw. If you think you're in a romance 363 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.799 scam, you must tell somebody about it right away. It's not your fault. 364 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.640 When we come back. How to avoid a romance scam. There are 365 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.839 ways to find love online and make sure it's with a real person when we 366 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.960 come back. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on kf I 367 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:53.119 AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to 368 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:59.119 kf I AM sixty on demand k I AM six forty. You have Doctor 369 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:02.240 Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. I would 370 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:04.880 like to welcome my TikTok audience. If you would like to visually come into 371 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:10.480 the studio, log on to TikTok. The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh 372 00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.079 at Dr Wendy Walsh. In a few minutes, I'm going to be taking 373 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.960 your calls. I'm going to put the phone number out there, but first 374 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:22.720 I want to talk further about how all of us can avoid these romance scams. 375 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.000 As I mentioned, it's a one point three billion dollar industry. In 376 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:32.640 twenty twenty two, one point three billion dollars was extorted out of unsuspecting, 377 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.799 innocent people who fell in love. It is natural for your brain to have 378 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.519 feelings of delusion with love. Love is the best drug we have. We're 379 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.559 not thinking clearly. We are also wired to bond, so when this person 380 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.799 seems so perfect, it feels so good to us. Well. The number 381 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:56.400 one way to avoid a romance scammer is be very, very wary of somebody 382 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:02.079 who can't meet in the real world. I've always been a big proponent of 383 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:08.599 dating in your own zip code anyway, because having somebody who's geographically distant is 384 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.599 going to be hard in the long run. Setting yourself up for heartbreak, 385 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.240 setting yourself up for a long term relationship or a long distance relationship is not 386 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.160 the way to start a love relationship. Look close to home, and I 387 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.839 understand many people live in rural areas. There are fewer mates, so I 388 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.880 see how they want to reach out further. But if somebody is too far 389 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:32.160 away and they can't get together for whatever reason, then there's a good chance 390 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:37.720 that they're about to scam you in some way. Also look for emails with 391 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:45.000 awkward writing and poorly constructed sentences and bad grammar. Now this isn't only because 392 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.000 many of romance scammers have English as a second language. When the reporter I 393 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:53.880 talked about earlier went to Nigeria and embedded himself with these so called Yahoo boys 394 00:28:53.960 --> 00:29:00.359 in Nigeria, one of them said, I speak and write perfect in The 395 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.799 problem is I'm emailing twenty people at once, So the typos is that he's 396 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:11.240 typing fast and he's doing a lot. You know, it's really important that 397 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.880 you understand that the reason why they seem so perfect to you is because they 398 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:21.240 are just mirroring back to you what you've told them. Some of the romance 399 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:26.599 scammers disclosed that they were shocked at how much personal information people give up online 400 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:33.119 to a total stranger. Honestly, don't do it. Wait till you meet 401 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.119 them in real life at least or at least on the telephone. But don't 402 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.200 sit there typing away. As you know. I mentioned in this article that 403 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:44.480 the journalist went over to Nigeria searching for the man who had duped his own 404 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:47.559 mother, and when he was meeting with some of the guys, they said, 405 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.720 I promise you there are things your mother told her scammer that she never 406 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.160 even told you that there are such private things. And so don't do that 407 00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.599 because they'll just reflect back your needs, wants and desires because they're knowing how 408 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:07.480 to read you. So ask more questions, don't tell too much. Here's 409 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.680 a simple thing. Take that image that they've made of with their fake profile 410 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:17.119 and anybody you're talking to online and put it in a Google image search. 411 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:19.400 Is it that hard? Put it in a Google image search? Okay, 412 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.039 I have to tell you I took a picture of me. I mean, 413 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.200 I did a screenshot of me from one of my Facebook pages and I put 414 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.160 it in a Google search today. Well, I was quite disturbed to see 415 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.079 what I saw. Well, first of all, way more pictures of me 416 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.480 that I knew even exists. I didn't even know existed at different times of 417 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:37.799 my life, at different events, a lot of Getty images. I'm like, 418 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:41.119 oh, I don't remember that I was at that party and there I 419 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.559 was, right, But apparently I'm big on wiki feats. I don't know 420 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.119 what that is, but there were lots of close ups on my feet, 421 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.759 like how does that happen? I know, and a few people with my 422 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.279 picture or sorry, I'm sorry with my name using a different picture. So 423 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:02.759 it was just it was weird and might picture a different name, so it's 424 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:04.519 yeah, be careful, just put it in there. See what you find 425 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:10.680 out. Here's another thing romance scammers do. They often want you to move 426 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.799 to some other They want to move you from the platform they find you. 427 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:15.440 So if they find you on a dating app, if they find you on 428 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.599 an Instagram, if they find you on TikTok, if they find you on 429 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:25.839 YouTube, they want to get you off there and get you into some private 430 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.039 chat that's less traceable. So they want to get you onto WhatsApp or telegram 431 00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:37.000 very quickly. So if anybody's asking you to move off the messaging, because 432 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:38.880 you know, if it's a dating app, you go complain about it. 433 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.119 You can report them. They can get booted off, right. But if 434 00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:47.559 they're scamming twenty different women, they get them over to what's app or telegram 435 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:51.160 and so then there's nothing you can do. You have nobody overseeing things, 436 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:56.880 so do not move to another platform. One of the things they do is 437 00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:02.200 in order to target you, they first benignly befriend a lot of people in 438 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.160 your circle, so that when they say hi in a private message, you 439 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.720 go who do they know? And then you will see six people colleagues, 440 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:16.160 you know, neighbors, family members that they know, and you'll just start 441 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.799 chatting with them. No, no, no, no, no, don't 442 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.200 do that. Call that person like, remember that it's a telephone. You 443 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.759 pick it up, your dollar number. You go, Hi, I just 444 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:28.519 noticed this guy said hi to me on an instant message, and he's a 445 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.200 friend of yours. Do you actually know him? And they'll go no, 446 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:34.160 I thought you knew him because I saw you were friends with them. Okay, 447 00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.119 that's how you figure it out. Check in the real world. And 448 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:43.599 also when you're going down the rabbit's hole of falling into love's delusion and being 449 00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.119 attracted to this person you've never met in the real world. Please tell people 450 00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:50.359 about it. Don't make it your little secret. This is very dangerous. 451 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:55.759 Tell your friends and family and if they are concerned, pay attention. You 452 00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:00.960 are not thinking clearly and it is not your fault. Do I need to 453 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:05.559 say this, don't send any money for any reason, for any purpose. 454 00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:08.480 You know, the most common way that romance scammers receive money gift cards, 455 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:14.880 little Amazon gift cards and stuff. Right, don't send money. At the 456 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.119 very end of the article where the guy went to Nigeria embedded himself with these 457 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.240 romance scammers, he said, can you give me some advice from my mother 458 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:27.119 or any other people that might be romance scammed? And they said, advice 459 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.880 number one, try to video chat right away, video chat how novel, 460 00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:37.759 FaceTime zoom, see a real person. And also if you find out that 461 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.880 you've been romance scammed, you can report it to the FTC. The website 462 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:47.680 is Report Fraud dot FTC dot gov and you can learn more at FTC dot 463 00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:54.279 gov slash romance scams. A twenty fifteen study looked at the psychological impact of 464 00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:01.640 online dating scams, and it found that most victims suffered mental health problems afterwards, 465 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:08.159 depression, anxiety, shame, and that the psychological effects were much more 466 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:15.360 powerful than the financial losses. This is very very serious, all right. 467 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:17.199 When we come back, I am going to be taking your calls for my 468 00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:22.079 drive by Makeshift relationship Advice. The number is one eight hundred five two zero 469 00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:28.719 one KFI. That's one eight hundred five two zero one five three four. 470 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.119 You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Wells Show on kf I AM six forty. 471 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:37.719 We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app kf I AM six forty on demand