Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Romary. You say what you did,
but you don't know why you did what you did, and you can't you
don't accept any responsibility for what you did. Welcome the season eleven, episode
two hundred and fifty nine of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that
the worst monsters are real. So here's the thing. I can't talk about
the uh because otherwise you guys go crazy and start making up rumors online about
where to find it out in the wild. I'm talking about the app,
of course, which we're working on, and I don't know what to say
about it because we're in this weird period of time where we put out these
episodes a week ahead of time on Plus, and then they come out to
everybody else a week later, so the information changes after a week. I
don't know what to say to you right now, other than I don't know.
Just sit tight, I guess, and the app will be here eventually.
By the way. In the meantime, we have a store we're working
on with all kinds of brand new merchant stuff. It's partially functional, right
now. But there's that, So if you want to support us, head
on over to store dot swordansguil dot com and take a look. There's no
denying it. Teachers hold an immense power and influence in shaping the lives of
their students. If your kid is anything but homeschooled, they spend a good
chunk of their week with their educators. A good teacher creates an environment where
open communication and trust are fostered, allowing students to confide in them about their
experiences, fears, or concerns. This is necessary because, as we know,
teachers are mandated reporters. Because of the vast amount of time spent with
their students in a routine based environment, teachers are likely to notice if something
seems off or if a child is showing signs of abuse. They become the
ears and eyes tuned in to the well being of their students beyond just the
academic performance, and when they suspect something isn't right, they are mandated to
take action and report it, ensuring that these children get the help and protection
they deserve. Ultimately, once a teacher turns a case into child protective services,
it's up to that agency to deal with it, and the teacher who
reported it doesn't get any updates on the case. The story we're about to
tell you is indeed about a teacher opening up a CPS case, but this
case went a little differently than most others. I have taught mathematics for thirty
three years. I just recently retired during the pandemic. This is Tammy Cooper.
She spent her long career teaching math to wait for it, middle schoolers.
Can you imagine what a pain in the ass that is? And this
woman did it for thirty three years. Back on the first of October nineteen
ninety seven, Tammy woke up early in the morning and got for another day
of turning adolescent chaos into calculated brilliance at Joseph Kerr Middle School in Elk Grove,
California. I had been teaching middle school at Joseph Kerr Middle School for
ten years when Jessa came to me. The day she came to me,
and so I was an experienced teacher, but it was shocking what she had
to tell me. Interestingly enough, this is one of those rare cases where
we have nearly every single important perspective directly from the source. This girl Tammy
is talking about Jessa or Jessica is now in her late thirties. Her name
is Jessica Rail and at the time, she was just starting eighth grade and
Tammy Cooper's math class was Jessica's final class of the day. Because it was
all very early in the school year, Tammy didn't have more than an acquaintance
level relationship with her students in the classroom. She was just starting to get
to know them. It was sixth period and this is the end of September,
so I'd only known her for, you know, maybe six weeks.
As the kids began slowly filtering into the room, Timmy noticed Jessica timidly walking
toward her. She came up to me right before class started and said,
I can't go home. I need to find my granny. And I said
what, I was confused. She goes, I can't go home. I
can't go home. I got to find my granny. And then she said
they poured bleach on me. And in my mind, I'm going, what
the hell's happened here? And I literally said, sit down, we'll finish
class and then we'll we'll address it. I didn't I didn't even have the
and I was a very experienced teacher, but I still didn't have the wherewithal
at that moment because she showed me the bleach stains on her arms, and
it just it. It took me that fifty minutes of class to just kind
of take a deep breath. Bleach. This poor girl had just told her
brand new math teacher that someone had poured bleach on her hair. It was
clear the longer Tammy looked at Jessica, her hair was changing colors. It
was crispy and fried. Her clothes had bleach stains all over them, and
she smelled strongly of the chemical. She was absent a lot in just that
short period of time, and it probably is closer to five weeks. Baby,
but she had a bee in the class. She always did her makeup
work. And the ironic thing is I knew she had a friend who had
ran away, and it came out, you know, on her email at
the middle school. And so I came up to her and said, Hey,
do you know anything about who? I can't remember the girl's name,
and she said no. At that moment, I would never have million years
even crossed my mind that she was in trouble herself. It was just at
that moment, the way she told me, and the burns on her arms,
it just was it just hit me. Upon further investigation, the damage
was even more shocking than anyone realized. Jessica's clothes had disguised the chemical burns
on her skin. Throughout the day, I just remember feeling dirty and wanting
to brush my teeth but couldn't go into the house. And my hair was
like I couldn't see it, but it was felt like straw. It was
just changing texture as the hours went on, and I was in a lot
of pain from the leech burns. And then I got dressed, got my
backpack and rode the I think of like three miles to the Junior High and
went to school my first because I was supposed to be gym and I was
like, I can't change to gym clothes and they'll see all these burns.
So I went and I told them that I fell and bleached, but I
think they thought I said I fell off the like the bleachers and let I
hurt myself and I couldn't do gym class, and then they let me get
out of it, and then I went through most of my classes just I
knew I smelt, but I don't know if other people noticed it. And
then I saw my face in the bathroom and my hair was like changing colors
of the day was going on, and at lunchtime I told my only friend
that I had at school what had happened, and she was trying to convince
me to tell someone, but I at that point I wasn't one hundred percent
convinced. But right before my last period class, I was like, this
is it either now or never, Like I either tell someone and see if
maybe someone will actually help me and believe me, or I'd go home and
face whatever's going to happen. We waited till the end of the period and
then I had taken her up to the counseling office. And I just recently
saw her counselor like a week ago and updated him. So this was twenty
five years later, and he had in fact checked on her earlier in the
days a some student had reported that he or she got something was wrong.
So the counselor did check with her and she said nothing. She doesn't remember
that, but he did just recall back to me. So we sat down,
sheriff was called. I took her into the bathroom and took pictures.
I mean her bra was burned that you could see the burn marks of where
the bleach had burned, a broad to her back and all it was just
all of her hair. It was yeah, it was really really shocking.
Then we came back, we did finished all the CPS report, and the
sheriff came and then next place she was going was to the hospital. And
right down, as a teacher, that was the moment that was a pendant
for me in the sense of I decided to go to the hospital with her.
And that's not what teachers do. Teachers are supposed to report it to
CPS and then step back and allow the system to do it's you know,
what it's supposed to do. And for whatever even my voice is coming shook,
for whatever reason, I decided differently, and I told her I would
be there, and I assured her I would be there. So at first
it was unclear to Tammy what exactly had happened. To Jessica, the confusion
quickly dissipated. She shared more of the horrifying details with her teacher. According
to Jessica, who lived with her biological mother and stepfather and a nice looking
single family home in Elk Grove. It was her stepfather who had poured bleach
all over her the night before. This was not an accidental thing. This
was very malicious and very intentional. Not only that, but it later became
clear that Jessica had actually been sleeping in a shed in the backyard when this
occurred. Though it appeared relatively normal from the outside, there was something evil
happening behind closed doors. No. I was probably the third or fourth time
I was made to sleep out in the shed. Eighth grade had started and
I was already at school, and I was made woken up in the middle
of night, told to go out there because I couldn't be in the house.
So I went out there, and I was sleeping on the lawn chair,
and in the middle of the night, Larry comes out, opens the
door and pours a bottle bleach all over me, screaming about hey, you
like that, don't you? Demon And then they left me there covered in
bleach for I don't know how long, and eventually they came in and sprayed
me off with the ice cold hoves, and then I got up, changed
and went to school. I was lucky that it did have multiple windows because
we used to have the animals in there, so it did have like a
cross breeze, and it was early September, so it wasn't terribly hot.
Jessica's mother, Barbara carrasco raised and bred French bulldogs at one point, keeping
up to ten dogs created in the shed at a time. It smelled like
old wet dog because there were still dog kennels in there, and like old
dog food, and it just smelled dirty because it was a storage shed now,
But it wasn't terribly hot or uncomfortable. It might be worth noting here
that though Jessica says now that the shed wasn't particularly hot or uncomfortable, her
threshold for discomfort is likely a lot different than those of us who had even
somewhat of a normal upbringing. For example, though she was sleeping out in
the shed, you might assume her parents would allow her to come inside and
use the restroom during the night, or at least before going to school.
Right, Oh, there was a bucket, if I've got one bucket and
the shed that I was to use to go to the bathroom. We are
trained every year to recognize what we look for, and I'm trying to think
if I did follow a report before her I filed several after I honestly can't
remember, and if I did, it was nothing of this violent nature.
But we got to the hospital, she had to strip and shower and do
a rape test. And I knew immediately when just by her body movements,
that she had been molested. And she has denied that to me forever until
just this last year, and I knew it was just not the kind of
movement that a thirteen year old girl would do when they're being tested for rape,
like, oh, okay, no big deal. And I expected her
to be nervous or kind of you know, like, what's happening. I
don't understand, because she probably had never been to a doctor before, and
she didn't. She was just like, okay, whatever. And I asked
her, you know now, why she didn't tell me? She said,
there was so much going on, it's just one more thing I didn't want
to deal with. Jessica hadn't been molested by this current stepfather, forty nine
year old Larry Carrasco, but she had been abused by her mother's former husband,
Charles, who is also the father of the rest of Jessica's siblings.
It had been seven years since Jessica, her mother and grandmother bounced around different
states before settling down for a while in a motel across from the Santa Cruz
Beach Boardwalk in California. Charles owned the motel and Jessica's grandmother worked there.
She and Jessica stayed in the attached department that was reserved for the motel manager,
which had become her grandmother's job. Well, we always kind of always
lived together. I was born in New Jersey. I know, we did
maybe a year in Florida when I was little, but she was there too,
and then we drove cross country ended up in California in multiple different places.
But I've always been with my grandmother and my mother. But my mom
would always leave to when I was little, I to calm her adventures because
I didn't know what she was doing, but usually involved a new man.
When we moved to Santa Cruz, it was a always been me and my
grandmother anyway, so it wasn't any big change for me to be just kind
of left with my grandmother. Things were relatively normal for me. My grandmother
made a good life for us. I went to school, had friends,
socialize all of those things, and my mother would come around whenever she felt
like it or wanted something from my grandmother. And eventually she had my brother,
Chad, and then dropped him off to live with us. He was
probably two months old when she dropped him off for a permanent stay. I
mean she came back once in a while. I mean not often, but
she did come back from time to time every city they lived in. Jessica's
grandmother lamented Barbara's erratic and negligent behavior. I mean, honestly, at that
age, I didn't really know anything different because my grandmother basically raised me.
And I used to call my grandmother mom because my mother was so sporadically in
my life that her not being around wasn't any different. I did have moments
where when she would come around and I would try to get her attention,
I would feel bad because she would always say, don't hang on me,
don't touch me, like just go away, And I'm thinking, why are
you even here, Like if you're not coming to see us, why are
you even here? But she was never really a mother, so didn't really
make a difference. Soon, Jessica, her grandmother and her new brother Chad,
who was dressed in a tiny baby tuxedo, attended Barbara's wedding to Charles.
Charles, by the way, was already married with three kids when Barbara
got pregnant. When I first met him, I mean, I thought it
was weird because she was Asian and they had different cultural things. Like he
scared me because he ate fish eyes, and he told me he was going
to make me eat them if I didn't quit sucking my thumb. Like the
most this vivid memory I've ever had. I'm like, I barely even know
this man, and he's like branding this whole fish at me with eyeballs,
and I'm like it was just I wasn't used to the cultural differences. But
we didn't really spend much time together before they got married, or even after
they got married. It wasn't until he basically lost everything and they all decided
to move to Nevada that I actually lived with him and spent any minute of
time with him. She saw dollar signs because he owned the hotel, he
had other homes, and you know it was in Mountain View, which is
very like a fluid area in California. So my mother saw dollar signs.
So but the only problem is my brother Chad was proof of his affair,
so he lost everything. But she didn't realize he was going to lose everything
in the divorce. By the time Chad was about to turn one, Barbara
dropped off another of her and Charles's babies. This time it was a the
little girl named Alexia, born on September twenty third, nineteen ninety one.
Yeah. After Alexia was born, within a few months, she was dropped
off to live with my brother and I well, my grandmother was now raising
three children and running a motel. Early the next year, everyone including Barbara
and her new husband, moved to Stagecoach, Nevada. The six of them,
three adults and three children, lived in a double wide trailer if that
surprises you. That summer, Barbara gave birth to her third baby by Charles,
this one a boy named Michael. She knew his name was Michael because
the guy who was adopting him is named Michael, so they knew while she
was pregnant that they weren't keeping him. I don't know if their relationship was
already starting to fall apart or what was happening at that point. I know
Charles became weird and more distant because his oldest daughter was killed in the car
accident, so it kind of just changed him and he just locked himself in
his office most of the time. So I just think it was a downward
spiral after the move and after her death, another baby just wasn't going to
be feasible. Just a few weeks after he was born, once the doctor
cleared him to fly, Barbara sent Michael off to live with this old friend
of hers who lived in Pennsylvania. Eventually, Barbara also sent little Chad to
live with the same man. So this timeline tells us that at one point
Jessica had three siblings. By the time the incident with the bleach happened,
Jessica was the only child living in the home with her mother and her second
stepfather, Larry. So where were the other children? Where Michael and Chad
really with a man in Pennsylvania? And where was Alexia. In early September
nineteen ninety seven, thirteen year old Jessica Rail confided in her math teacher that
she was being abused at home, lifting her shirt to reveal horrible chemical burns
on her skin. Jessica's teacher, Tammy Cooper, stuck by her through her
hospital evaluations and all of the CPS paperwork. Tammy and Jessica both knew she
wouldn't be returning home to her mother, Barbara and her stepfather, Larry Carrasco.
She'd been shuffled right into the system. By this point, Jessica's mother
and stepfather had forced her grandmother out of the home, leaving Jessica with no
protection from their atrocities. Jessica's grandmother wasn't in a position the court saw appropriate
enough to place Jessica in her care, so she instead went to live in
Sacramento Children's Receiving Home. Sounds like a much better option, I guess when
I walked in, for I didn't realize even whatever Receiving Home was, But
when I walked in, it almost looked like a doctor's office in the front.
All the chairs lined up in a front desk where you can check in.
But it was quite a large facility that housed seventy children ages zero to
eighteen, boys on one side, girls in the other, and we were
separated by age groups. And then it was just supposed to be temporary care
until they can either go home or find foster placements. I think was after
the hospital, before the hospital, but we did go to the sheriff's office
and they called Barb called Barbarareil, who is Jessica's mother, and Jessica was
on the phone me and the sheriff could hear, and she was saying,
why did you do that? Trying to get her biological mother to admit to
what she had done. It became obvious that she was not going to admit
anything, so the sheriff had Jessica stopped the conversation, and then the next
thing we did was go to the receiving home. That was the last thing,
and I was told because I was a family I would not be able
to see her for three days, but I promised her that I would see
her as soon as I could, and then her mother and stepfather were arrested
that night about two o'clock in the morning. The average stay in the receiving
home is less than thirty days because a lot of people just get other family
members who can take them, or their parents just had some simple charges and
they get a parenting class or whatever and send them home. But most people
don't stay more than a month in total. I ended up being there almost
a year. During Jessica's first month at the receiving home, there was an
FBI agent in Sacramento who was just starting to investigate this case, not because
of the child abuse, but because Jessica's grandmother had called into the Sacramento County
Sheriff's Office worried about her grandchildren. We know that little Chad and Michael were
shipped off to live with a man in Pennsylvania, and this was confirmed by
the authorities. Alexia, however, was reportedly living with her father, Charles,
in Chicago. The FBI agent who helped Sacramento County with this case is
Jeffrey Rinnick, and we talked to him the way Alexia started. And the
guy in the in fact, I just saw him the other day. His
name is Steve Hill, and he was a missing person detective for the Sacramento
County Sheriff's Department. I got a call from Steve and at the time I
got the call, the what I was told by Steve Hill was that they
had received a call from a woman in Pennsylvania, and the woman in Pennsylvania
claimed to be a grandmother of a little girl down around Elk Grove. She
was calling the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department because she couldn't reach anyone and she was
worried about her granddaughter, and that's what they started with. And then when
they got that they called me. All we knew was that we had this
little girl that was on accounted for. And all I knew was, even
though the FBI had no business in it, I was going to go with
Steve. I mean, he was one of my best friends, and I
know the guys I worked with who cared about those guys. So if it
was an issue or a concern for backup, we would be there for each
other. So that's how I started just being back up for Steve Hill.
Jeff has had a long, successful career in the FBI. Before getting involved
in cases of missing children, Jeff was actually the agent who pulled a murder
confession from Carrie Stainer, a Yosemite killer. If you know or remember that
case. Carrie was the older brother of Steven Stainer, a teen who was
kidnapped back in nineteen seventy two and held captive for seven years. Eventually,
Stephen escaped, bringing with him another little boy who had also been kidnapped by
the same man. Stephen went on press tours and was a veritable celebrity after
his escape, but was tragically killed riding his motor bike home from work in
nineteen eighty nine when a car hit him and drove away, leaving him to
die of his head injuries. Ten years later, in nineteen ninety nine,
Steven's older brother, Carrie, began murdering women near Yosemite National Park. It's
a fascinating story that the brother of a kidnapped teen would turn into a murderer,
but here we are. He murdered four women between February and July,
but authorities quickly caught on and he was arrested on July twenty fourth of that
same year. Jeff went through all the training at Quantico many many decades ago.
His training on interrogation consisted of a two hour class. Most of Jeff's
tactics, though, seemed to come to him naturally, even mirroring the read
technique in some ways. You know, it's funny because you know, you
read about these other techniques, and they teach you how to feign like you
care, you know, how to act, so they believe I don't act.
I mean, I mean it's if I'm interviewing you, and I tell
you I'm going to do something for you, I'm going to do it.
In Stayner's case, you know, I promised him that his family had no
idea what was coming, and that I needed to go down there and tell
him, And that was one of the things that he was considering before he
started confessing. Now, everybody thinks killers to be monsters and mean people,
But before I retired, I helped with a interview of a young boy about
nineteen. He had drowned, deliberately drowned a fifteen year old boy for somebody.
He wanted to talk to me, and I was leaving. I had
promised that I wouldn't do any more interview shouse, but they came and got
me, said he was asking for me, So I went back in.
So I went in and I took his confession. But here's the thing,
like when I do my interviews, like I want to know about this person,
what's his story? So like in this guy's case, I said,
you know, if you could have anything in the world, what would you
want? And you know, you can see him going through and going through
and he looks at me, he says, you know, if I could
have anything in the world, I would want someone to love me and someone
to love Now, this is coming from a kid who just killed the fifteen
year old kid. So you know, it doesn't fit, It doesn't make
sense. How do you explain it? And I think that's one of the
things that wears out investigators and detectives because you know, there's just some things
that are not going to make sense. And when you see him, you
conjunction with crime scenes that are beyond the ability to tolerate. You know,
it just it does what it does. There's a lot of fusion around the
FBI's protocols, specifically when it comes to cases of missing children. In the
nineteen nineties, the director was Louis Free, and Louis Free determined that he
was going to enable the FBI's resources and people to be utilized if a child
is harmed or goes missing or whatever, and so he took away for some
reason. Everybody always says, oh, you got to wait twenty four hours
for the FBI. That is no, you don't wait at all. And
I think a lot of what determines how the FBI is going to answer is
going to be the person that you're dealing with, for instance, in our
office, because I was you know, the coordinator. If we got cases
in that, you know, I didn't care who worked them. And what
started happening was that we start already seeing what would start out as a runaway
would end up as an abduction or a false imprisonment because the child had changed
their mind and wanted to come home and then the adult wouldn't let them come
home. When you talk about the difference between you know, local cases and
FBI is just an example. The FBI doesn't go you know, we don't
do that. Not it's not that it's below us or anything, but we
are required by law to address with the law tells us to address, and
those things are going to be federal crimes or any other thing that is legislating.
So that's why, you know, normally we wouldn't get calls like this,
but because of the relationship we had, we did. So when they
got the call, basically I there was me, I think one or two
other agents from the office. We went with their squad, the child abduction
squad, and then or they call them to their Childhood Reduction Bureau and then
we were down there with them, just covering them and what we found.
We were unprepared for maybe two weeks into me being into the receiving home late
September early October, because they had verified that Alexia was not with her father
in Chicago. He said he hadn't seen her or talked to her in months,
so they were coming to me to try to figure it out. And
he was one of the FBI agents, Jeff. He was very mean,
like he made me feel like total crap. We'll get to that in just
a little bit. You might be thinking, why would this guy try to
scare or guilt a child who was a victim herself. As we were conducting
investigation looking for the little girl, we saw there were pictures in the house
with her face cut out of them, So that was not a good feeling.
And then as the day went on, we learned that the victims all
sister. Her name is Jessica. It's our Jessica had reported to a teacher
that day at school that her stepfather had poured a leach on her while she
was sleeping in a shed in the backyard, and because of that, they
had removed her from the house and were holding her at the child's receiving home.
We realized on the first day, based on learning and talking with the
detectives, the sheriff detectives, that something really catastrophic had happened here. And
so at that point it's the day unfolded. We realized that we had no
evidence that Alexia ever existed, and so we would stop in nothing, you
know, to look for her, to find her. So from that point
on, it became a situation where the Sheriff's department was bringing up the resources,
bringing up their people, and we were helping them. If interviews need
to be done, that kind of thing, we would do it. As
we know. When it came to interviews, Jeff was the man for the
job. This is really hard for me because I'm not proud of it,
but I will tell you what happened. We spent a day looking for Alexia.
I was with my partner, who was a new agent, and we
were heading back to our office and I decided the children's Receiving Home was right
across the street from our office. So I went into the Children's Receiving Home
and we asked the administrators that we could see Jessica. So they put us
in a room with Jessica. Glass door, glass and they left us there.
Jessica's opening remarks were out of profanity. As a law enforcement person,
one of the hardest things in life is to try and convince a person that
is afraid of you that you're there to help them. It's really it's not
only hard, but it becomes emotionally just really taxing. And in this case,
she refused to tell us anything. She would, you know, throw
profanity at us, like it was you know, he told me like things
like, who do you think she was calling for when they were abusing her?
You were her only person to help. We know, you know what
happened to her, like it was some harsh tactics. And he remembers her
differently than I do. But I don't remember telling him what happened. I
remember walking out of that meeting. This is how Jeff remembers that interview.
I don't know, something clicked inside of me. I wasn't gonna I believed
she was the only one who could tell to where that child was, and
I wasn't going to leave there. Yeah. According to the FBI agent when
I spoke to him not too long ago, a few months ago, they
found not a single solitary DNA strand, not a hair, not a fingerprint,
no toys, nothing to indicate that a child lived in that house.
They every picture she was in, her face was cut out of it.
I started back from the beginning with Jessica, and I started taking every memory
she had and establishing from her which of the memories had Alexia. And and
so she had to do nothing but think about Alexia. And she's smart.
She knew I was getting a little we were getting upset. She said something
that indicates she was there. I heard her say something like that, and
I just uried, nonchalantly got up and locked the door to the room,
and I went back to Jessica and I started having her described for us her
favorite times with Alexia, which invariably would turn out to be the two of
them cuddling in watching TV. We knew about Alexia, but the only person
who could tell us is you. And she was screaming and yelling. They
were trying to get in the room. I wouldn't let him in, and
so they were very very angry. But the end result was that Jessica described
everything that had occurred. It started when she was very very little, even
when we were still living with Charles and stagecoach Nevda. I remember coming out
and she's the Alexia is in a height chair, probably eight nine months old,
and uh, barb was just taking a lighter to the bottom of her
feet. Walked out, saw her doing it, and the baby's obviously crying,
and my mother had a look. And if she gave you that look,
you didn't say anything back. So I just turned around walked out.
Another memory Jessica can recall from her childhood really puts Barbara into perspective. My
mother would love to tell me that I was ugly and fat and worthless and
that I would never amount to anything. I'd be pregnant in high school.
I mean, it was just I never got any racial slurs, but you
know I was called a bitch and a cunt anything. I mean. She
took all my awards that I saved in, all my cards for like birthdays,
and she burned them all in the fireplace, just because they meant something
to me. Barbara and Charles obviously didn't work out long term as a couple,
so they split and Barbara quickly went on the hunt for another man,
as Barbara's often do. We moved again. We were in the city in
California, and I was in sixth grade going to school. Chad finally started
kindergarten, and she was off all the time, supposedly working or looking for
work. And she came home one time and she's just like, I met
a man and we got married and we're all moving into his house in Elk
Grove. And my grandmother tried to convince her to let us finish out the
school year so we didn't have to change midyear, but she was hearing nothing
about it. She's like, they're my kids, I'm taking them. So
we ended up moving while I was in my sixth grade year. Whenever she
could show us off to some boyfriend or at some event, she would,
but when it came to actual parenting or being there for when we needed her,
she wanted nothing to do with it. By this point, only one
of Jessica's younger brothers had been sent to live with the man in Pennsylvania,
so it would be Jessica, Alexia, Chad, and their mother, Barbara
and Grandma making the move. They'd be moving into a home in Elk Grove,
California, owned by a forty nine year old man named Larry Carrasco.
Yeah, I don't even know how he met her, if it was like
at a bar or just down the street. She never gave us any information.
She just says she married him and here we are. So I thought
he was just completely normal, everyday guy, one of the most well put
together guys I've ever seen my mom date. I thought, well, maybe
this will be good, Like, maybe we'll stay here for a while,
and you know, Mom will be all right, and we'll get to be
a family. These hopes didn't last long. Barbara never enrolled Chad in kindergarten
and sent him to live in Pennsylvania that same summer. Just a reminder,
because these names can get confusing. Michael was the name of Jessica's little brother
and also the name of the man their mother's sent the boys to live with.
When Barbara was pregnant with Michael, she knew she would be sending him
off for this unofficial adoption, so she named the baby after the man who
would be taking custody of him. How thoughtful, I guess. Chad was
shipped off a little bit later and was slightly less planned. After he's sent
to live with Michael, things got weird. My grandmother was noticing more and
more of the I guess, the addictive behaviors and the odd punishments and the
meanness towards Alexia, and she was speaking out about it more and threatening to
call the authorities to get us taken away. So Barbara and Larry decided to
kick my grandmother out, and once my grandmother no longer lived there, I
missed a lot of school taking care of Alexia because Barbara went come out of
her room from time to time. She would tell me to stay home just
because she didn't want to deal with that Chinese bitch is what she would call
Alexia a lot of the times. But then other times she's like, you
have to go to school because if not, the cops are going to come
after me for you missing too many days. It was hit or miss with
her, But some days I would stay home if Alexia was feeling emotionally like
unstable, I guess you could say, because there would be some times where
she would be like, I just don't want to be here alone. She's
always told me when I came home from school that they don't feed her.
Nobody comes out of the bedroom, and then they don't feed her while I'm
gone, So it made me not want to go to school because I didn't
know what was happening to her when she was gone. When I was gone.
Just like Chad, Alexia approached five years old and was never enrolled in
kindergarten. She was pretty smart. I mean I think she would have been
a highly intelligent little girl. I mean I will never know because she didn't
even get to go to school to see if she could read or anything like
that. But when you grow up in the household like I do, you
did, you grow up quicker. So she was well beyond her years with
her verbal and emotional development. Things were getting weird, not only because Barbara's
own addiction to methamphetamine was getting worse, but because she had gotten Larry on
meth as well. He once had a stable job before a workplace injury,
but was unemployed by February of nineteen ninety seven and had begun skulking back into
the bedroom with Barbara on a daily basis. At one point, Larry before
his accent, he agreed that she needed to get help and he kicked her
out. With both my grandmother and him decided to kick her out, and
within like a few hours, she went back at the door just crying and
begging to come back, swearing that she was going to do better and go
to rehab and all of this, and they both let her back in,
and no rehab ever happened. Soon they were making paranoid accusations, claiming the
girls were possessed. Every day held a new scary encounter with Barbara or Larry.
And this was all just the beginning. Thirteen year old Jessica Rail sat
in an interrogation room in late nineteen ninety seven, rehashing every single detail of
what happened to her little sister, five year old Alexia. There was not
a crumb of evidence that Alexia even existed in the Carrasco home, but she
had lived there with Jessica, hidden within the confines of the deceivingly normal looking
outer walls. As she began to divulge more of her story, police officers
and FBI agents couldn't believe what they were hearing, especially because they didn't have
any evidence that could corroborate that Jessica's story was even true. This would soon
change very shortly before the worst part of Jessica's story, she told detectives about
her mother and Larry's drug use and increased paranoia, something that eventually led to
the couple accusing both Jessica and little Alexia of being possessed by demons. It's
important to note, though, that Barbara's behavior can't be mitigated by her drug
use. It would be easy to blame everything on drugs, of course it
would, but Barbara's personality was poisoned from the very beginning. Math just you
know, had a little uh and a little spice to the mix, a
little chaser on your cocktail if you don't mind the uh comparison. My grandmother
raised her with her father, and I know she was very spoiled. My
grandmother had my uncle and then she had like eight miscarriages over like thirteen years
before she got pregnant with my mother. So she spoiled the hell out of
my mother. She had everything under the sun, Like I don't think she
ever worked for anything in her life, high or not high. My mother
was. It was always what she wanted, how she wanted it, and
if only if it benefited her. Fearing for her little sister's safety, Jessica
began missing more and more school so that she could stay home and keep an
eye on her. So she stayed home as often as she could. There
were, of course, still days when Jessica had to be away at school
all day long, anxious the entire day knowing that Alexia was without her protection.
I think that was one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed is I
came home from school and she was in her room and she was playing,
and the door was slightly open, and I see her just playing with the
stuffed dogs and I'm like, well, where's your baby dolls? And She's
like, they're under the bed, and I'm like why, she goes well,
because babies are babies are bad and they need to be locked up.
And I just was like, then, why are we playing with the puppies?
She was because everybody loves puppies, And I was just like, the
most heartrenching, saddest thing I think I've ever witnessed. And I was like
twelve at the time, and that's what the first thing I thought was,
Well, if she's playing this with her dolls, something has to be happening
while I'm at school. All I really got out of her is the fact
that they left her alone and they never fed her, and she was always
hungry. Once summer started, I got to witness a lot of what they
were doing, and it was a lot of locking her in a closet cutting
all her hair off one time because my mother didn't want to deal with it.
And that was an emotionally hard thing to watch because I hear her crying
and I go find them in their master bedroom closet and she's got Alexia taped
like duct taped to a four poster chair while she's just cutting all her hair
off, and I'm under like, I don't didn't understand why would we need
to do that? And Barbara's excuse was she didn't want to take care of
her hair, and then I, with my smart mouth, said well you
don't, I do like leave it alone, like I'll take care of it.
It didn't work out. She's still cut basically all of her hair off.
She said lots of nasty things to her while she was cutting her hair
off. The demons and the vampire talk started probably right after my grandmother was
out, but it wasn't on a regular basis. I finished my seventh grade
year and then during that summer more and more talk of the demons and the
vampires. Apparently Lexia and I were demons. And Barbara thought she was God
at one point, and she was pregnant Jesus, and she told me that
I had to die because I was sucking the electricity out of her baby.
It was just random, out of nowhere things. And I never said I
was I never said I wasn't. I didn't go against her. I just
let her talk. On two different occasions, someone probably Jessica's grandmother, called
CPS or the Sheriff's department to go out to the Carrasco home and check on
the girls. Of course, Barbara and Larry had prepared the girls for events
like this, and they behaved accordingly. It was in the summer, like
the very beginning of summer. Right after my grandmother was kicked out. The
cops came and I told them everything was fine, but I wasn't gonna say
things were horrible or anything was going on, because Barbara and Larry were standing
right next to me, and the cops weren't even coming in the house,
they just stood in the doorway. So I just went with it. Everything's
fine, I'm good, We're all good. And then the more talks of
demons and vampires and Barbara putting like cameras in the ceiling to watch me,
because apparently I was trying to sneak out or kill her or whatever she thought
I was doing. We had my bedroom windows was bolted shut. There's really
no escaping that house. She took the phone out away, so I couldn't
call anybody, and it was summertime, so it's not like I had a
reason to leave the house. And then all of a sudden, she and
Larry sit us down and tell us that they figured out how to get rid
of the demons and the vampires, and that we would need to drink these
leash milk three times a day for eight days to rid us of our demons.
Three bleach milkshakes per day for eight days meant that each girl would have
to consume twenty four total milkshakes, which were often mixed with garlic and other
spices. Jessica was a middle schooler, but Alexia was a tiny, little
five year old. Jessica knew there was no way Alexia would be able to
survive all twenty four of those shakes. It was very an intimidating process because
Larry and Barbara both sat at the table with us and like stared us down,
and we weren't allowed to leave unless we drank it. But initially I
had refused, and Larry punched me in the face and gave me two black
eyes because I refused to come out of my bedroom to go drink this concoction.
After he did that, I realized I had no choice in that if
I didn't, I was probably gonna end up beaten. So I started drinking
them. But it was chalky, and it burned, and you wanted to
throw up, and it was just a horrible experience. And Alexia had to
drink the same amount as mean and obviously would have major effects on someone being
so little as opposed to me was a little bit heavier as a teenager and
a little forty pound year big kid drinking the same amount. It burned my
throat and burned my stomach, but it didn't like last long for some reason,
and it didn't like make me nauseous or anything. After like the third
day, it was horrible tasting, but I was able to just get them
down. The first couple times we had those shakes, I was able to
sneak Alexia and I off into the bathroom and throw up. I had to
basically put my fingers down her throat because she didn't understand the concept to make
her throw up, But Larry and Barbara caught us doing that, and then
after that we were always kept separated and weren't allowed to go back to our
wounds until they determined it to be safe, or they would just put us
directly in our rooms and lock us in there, so we had no way
of throwing up unless we wanted to puke in our beds. Well, I
think we barely made halfway through the second day, and we were separated the
rest of the time. For most of the time, honestly, I didn't
get to see or know. I mean I would hear her like crying and
whimpering, so I knew she was still alive. But a lot of times,
unless both of them were there, we weren't allowed to be together.
As if the bleach milkshakes weren't bad enough, Barbara and Larry began doing the
unthinkable. They did bring us out together sometimes to additional fun torture when she
put bleach in our ears and our eyes on a daily basis, we got
to do that together, but other than that, she was normally a pretty
much locked in the master bedroom closet I mean, I just remember every time
Barbara did it to her, she just screamed, like uncontrollably screamed. Yeah,
it was horrible, But I honestly I blocked a lot of stuff out.
I didn't allow myself to think or feel about a lot of things because
I just I felt just so defeated because there was nothing I could do anyway.
No matter what option I thought of, none of them ended well.
So if I thought of escaping, like how do I get Alexia out?
Because I can't leave without her, I can't get to the phone. And
eventually just became too much and I kind of honestly gave up. It was
nearing the end of the eight days, and Barbara had even more in store
for the girls, Jessica in particular. At this time, Barbara and Larry
still had their ten French bulldogs back in the dog shed, and Barbara loved
those dogs more than her own children, even so she killed them all.
They probably had two days left, maybe three days left of the bleach shakes,
and Barbara made me come outside and watch, well help her. I
guess it didn't help, but she made me bring the dogs out one by
one and she drowned each one of them in a bucket of bleach water in
the backyard midle of summer, and nobody. Nobody knew a thing, nobody
heard a thing, No neighbors called. And it's not like we lived far
from other neighbors. It was residential. They were right there. You could
have looked over your fence and seenior neighbor. She loved those dogs in one
them, She loved us, and they were her income. So I don't
understand why she just drowned all of her income. That was more of the
reason, Like she just wanted to show me that she could do this,
And if she could do it to these dogs that I know she loved more
than us, it would be easier for her to do it to us too,
Just as Jessica feared, Alexia didn't make it through the full eight days
of bleach shakes. Each time Jessica saw her, on the occasions they were
both dragged from isolation for torture sessions, Alexia looked more pale and sickly.
Her skin had a grayish cast, and the sparkle had left the little girl's
eyes. It was day seven and Alexia had failed to drink her milkshake.
She was, after all, nearly catatonic by this point. Barbara dragged Alexia
out of the kitchen by her hair and locked her in the master bedroom closet.
When lunchtime rolled around and it was time for another round of milkshakes,
Alexia was absent on the table When I walked down the hallway to come out
to have my you know, twentyeth shake. Alexia was completely naked in the
bathtub and there was a enema bag in the bathtub with her. She was
making small sounds, but she wasn't really moving. I wanted to go in,
but Larry pushed me and told me to go sit down and have my
shake. So I'm sitting with Larry at the table having my shake. Barbara
goes into the bathroom. I don't know what she was doing to Alexia while
she was in the bathroom, but then she brings Alexia out of the bathtub,
lays her naked on the floor, and realizes that she's not breathing.
She swear she you know, she's already died. So she leans over her
and gives her like one half assed attempt at CPR, like one breath,
no compressions, no nothing, and then just smiles and realizes she's dead,
and I'm freaking out, like asking are you sure, because isn't there a
way to save her? Like how do you know? You're not a doctor.
But nobody did any further attempts to save her or make sure she was
actually really past. So that was it. Ex Yeah, was gone,
and Barbara and Larry seemed relieved. Barbara had killed her own little girl and
ten of her own dogs. What would stop her from killing Jessica too?
My mother was always looking for a way to keep me locked up. She
told me that there was bad men out there, that they would take me
and do worse things to me. She told me that the cops were on
her side and they would just bring me right back. She also told me
that nobody would believe me, because who's going to believe that this is happening.
They would just think you're crazy and lock you up. She had a
lot of reasons, and I, you know, not really having much contact
with the outside world for quite a long time. Name she was right,
so I didn't even attempt to try to leave. Even praying to God,
as her grandmother had taught her, seemed like a futile effort. She had
tried it before, and God clearly hadn't heard her or hadn't cared for a
little while I was in my room, because I guess they were discussing what
to do with her. But immediately before they made the huge plan what to
do with her, they'd put her in a black trash brag and put her
in the freezer in our garage. I didn't believe in God, because how
could a god allow things like this to happen to children? And then I
was also highly confused because Barbara said she was God and then pregnant with Jesus,
And while I knew that wasn't right, I also thought, well,
why did my mom lie? Like moms aren't supposed to lie to you.
So it was very confusing trying to like, you know what's not right,
but you want your mom to love you so much, and you want your
mom to take care of you, so you want to believe her, and
you go with what she says because it makes it easier. It was just
a mess. In the time before they finally disposed of Alexia's frozen body,
Barbara and Larry made a game out of sending Jessica to the garage to get
sodas for them, sometimes even requiring her to get meat and other things out
of the same freezer that held Alexia's corpse. She was in the freezer probably
for about a week before they really decided what their process of elimination was going
to be and their backstorre. I was brought out of my room one day
and sat down and told that if anybody asked what happened to Alexia, we're
just going to tell them that she lives in Chicago with her biological father.
And as they were telling me this, they're bringing me into the master bedroom,
into the closet, and the Alexia's body in the trash bag is on
the closet floor, and I'm forced in the closet with Larry standing by and
sitting next to me with a gun pointed at me, telling me to repeat
the story over and over again while they work on dismembering her body. They
had a whole set up, the whole All of the clothes were gone,
there was like no they had redone the floor, so it was like linoleum
on the floor in the closet, and they had the trash bags and plastic
taped to the floor, and there was a meat cleaver and axe and some
kind of saw and extra trash bags all set up and ready to go.
And they at first Barbara couldn't do it, She couldn't start dismembering her,
so Larry gave her the gun. She kept the gun trained on me,
and Larry removed Alexia's head from her body. And then after that point Barbara
was like, oh, I think I can do this, and she takes
over dismembering her thoroughly. I didn't know you could make a body look the
way she ended up looking, and just handfuls of her in a trash bag
like at a time until there was nothing left. They more or less made
it like she went through a meat grinder. Though they had a huge mess
to clean up. Barbara and Larry were on meth, so just imagine a
couple of meth heads cleaning up a crime scene. What I'm trying to say
is they left not a single stray hair to be found by lawn horsemen.
They got everything. I mean, they should start a business for cleaning homes.
Just immaculate, really. And they also had a plan for what to
do with the remainder of Alexia's body once they were finished. In the closet.
They had placed all of her remains in her trash bag. I was
allowed to go take a shower finally, which was well needed because I had
bits of body pieces that hew from the force of her chopping all over me.
So I was allowed to take a shower. After my shower, it
brought out into the family room and they burned her body in the fireplace,
literally larry one handful out of time, and after throughout three or four hours,
they eventually burned the whole bag. Just a reminder, this all occurred
in the middle of July. The smoke from a burning body looks and smells
much different than any other kind of smoke. It's not like a burning pile
of leaves or a cozy fireplace. It's not even like a backyard barbecue cookout,
not even the pellet grill me. I like the trigger. It's easy
to keep your temperatures regulated. And there's all sorts of different flavors of pellets
to choose from. I like the hickory. A lot of people like apple,
but I like hickory. Smells pretty good. There's a nice, sharp
smoky taste on your meats. Anyway, this must be a part of California
that has a lot of cookouts, because nobody complained about the smell or the
fact that there was even a fireplace on in California in the middle of July.
Despite these oddities, nobody bothered to call police. Not even one anonymous
tip was left. I guess people in California are so used to seeing just
horrible, fucked up shit that they just don't even bother anymore. In any
case, in the middle of the night, the three of them drove off
in Barbara's white Ford Bronco dump Alexia's ashes into the Sacramento River, along with
all the tools they used to dismember her, and also the ice chest that
held her frozen body. And then on the way back to the car,
they realized that they locked the keys in the car, so they had to
break the window to get in so we could get home. This would be
the one detail in Jessica's story that corroborated evidence found by law enforcement. This
meant that police could believe what she was saying, even though Alexia's body and
the rest of the physical evidence were long gone. Jessica had told us that
Larry and Barbara had locked themselves out of the car at the Sacramento River and
that had to break the window to get in, and based on her description,
there was a ton of glass right there, so the lapse took the
glass and it turned out to be from their car. Just a side note
and something that is totally on brand for Barbara in case you missed it,
she drove a white Ford Bronco in nineteen ninety seven, the same exact kind
of Ford Bronco that OJ Simpson was famous for driving. This was no accident.
I hated that car. She had to buy one. When OJ Simpson
went up for trial and he had that white Bronco, she had to buy
one. And she loved driving it because it was around the same time as
the trial was going on, and everybody would be like, go Oj,
as we're driving, and she just got the biggest kick at it, being
like the center of attention over the stupid car. As we know now,
Barbara and OJ have a lot in common, She too would soon become the
center of attention, not just because of the Ford Bronco, but because she
had murdered someone. First, law enforcement had to make sure the case would
be prosecutable. The lack of physical evidence would certainly make that a challenge Alexia's
case. I never was successfully able to guess where we were going. Ever.
Mona Fjord was the detective in charge of the case, and I think
she went back and got like five search warrants. I mean, she just
was absolutely determined to go back there. And we brought a a crime scene
investigator who literally peeled the paint off the walls, looking for a residue of
blood or anything that could have been there underneath it. We also sent the
fireplace from the house back to Quantico and had that tested by the FED the
FBI lab, and that didn't give up anything either. I knew that I
deliberately caused Jessica to experience an emotional up people, and I knew it was
my fault. The choice I made that day was was it more important to
leave Jessica alone or was it more important to try and find out what happened
to Alexia. I chose Alexia, and I'm glad I did, and I
think Jessica is glad I did. But you know, when and Jessica's demeanor
and how she described things, there was no question that she was telling the
truth. Both Larry and Barbara's convictions would rest on Jessica's testimony and the broken
glass from the car window. The testimony was fine, but they also said
because I lied for so long, the jury would trying to make it seem
like I wasn't credible because I had lied for so long. But once they
did serve Barbara and Larry with their resta warrant for the murder, they both
started like basically telling the same story, just blaming it on each other.
Both Barbara and Larry still pleaded not guilty, which meant both of them would
go to trial. Larry's trial was first in February of two thousand and it
lasted three days. The jury found him guilty of second degree murder and ten
counts of child abuse and torture. A month later, he was sentenced to
forty years to life. Barbara's timeline was a bit different. Her first plea
was a not guilty plea, but then she changed it to not guilty by
reason of insanity. On the day of jury selection for both of their cases,
Barbara changed her plea to guilty. In May. A judge found her
legally sane when she committed the murder, which meant she'd spend her sentence in
prison, not a mental institution. She finally did take a plea deal where
they dropped basically all of the torture charges and she took her I believe it
was murder one and got sentenced to fifteen years to life. I was pissed
off because, yes, she I guess technically admitted to killing my sister,
but she wasn't getting any time for what she did. The of a torture
that she did me or my sister. If you have an insane attention to
detail, and most of our listeners do, Unfortunately, maybe you've done the
math. By now, It's been well over fifteen years since Barbara's conviction.
She's already been up for parole several times. Jessica and I both thought,
because California of law right now is to let people out of jail, and
that's you know, the politics, and so we really are surprised that she
has been in there still twenty five years and again was denied parole. We
have thought for a good the last two or three hearings that she would be
released, and prepared for that to happen. The thing what the reason that
they always give at the end of when they make their decision, they come
in and still it takes twenty minutes or whatever. They come back in and
they say, no, Barbara, you say what you did, but you
don't know why you did what you did, and you can't you don't accept
any responsibility for what you did. Aways been up I think four or five
times. The first one I wasn't aware of. I found out about her
being denied through a newspaper article because Hammy saw it in the newspaper in California
and sent it to me, and then I after that, I requested through
victim Services to be notified at whenever she had a hearing, so I would
attend them via the phone, because I didn't have a local courthouse to actually
do it like via teleconference. But her most recent one was last December,
December twenty two, and I did that one via zoom from my house because
COVID allows us to do it that way now. So I got to see
her and hear about all of her wonderful successes and how you know, she's
got her education, and she's found religion, and she's mentors all the new
lifers and she's just this wonderful human being now and I get to tell my
peace and defunk everything she says. And she still has not taken full responsibility
for her part in my sister's death, and she still has no remorse whatsoever
for anything that happened and her Basically, the only truthful thing I got out
of her in the last hearing was that she never wanted us and never loved
any of us. Despite spending her entire adolescence in the foster care system,
Jessica now has three children of her own, a college degree, and her
own business, yet further proof that you do not have to be confined by
where you come from. There is a way out if you put in the
work days. Jessica strives to be a good mother by deliberately avoiding any resemblance
to her own mother, a common tactic by many who come from abusive homes.
When Jessica had her first child, a girl, she wanted to memorialize
Alexia, so she named her first born after her little sister. Jessica's math
teacher from all of those years ago, Tammy Cooper, still keeps in touch
with her and they visit each other's families regularly. I'm really glad I picked
miss Cooper Tammy to be the one to tell out of all my teachers.
She made a promise to me that that day that she would stay with me
and she would always be there as long as I wanted her in my life.
And I didn't believe her because nobody ever stuck around, But then she
did. She stayed to the hospital visit, she stayed while I was getting
registered in the receiving home. She started visiting me afterwards, and she was
instrumental and getting my grandmother because she didn't have a car, getting my grandmother
able to come see me, because she would pick her up for me or
take me to my visits. Everything she said she was going to do,
she did, and she really did end up becoming like my best friend as
a teenager, Jessica. I never gave Jessica any money. I never supported
her as a mother or father would and I gave her, you know,
money here and there for a birthday or whatever, but never supported her as
my child. And so I had her teacher and that's the role that we
agreed kind of without talking, and I followed her. I did several gofund
me pages when she was at a really bad time, like being kicked out
of her, her home that she was renting, and we got her through
everything, but she never once depended on me as her advocate to change her
life and make her life better. All that she ever, I think wanted
from me was what I could give, which was my love and respect and
that shared history. I'm the only person who's known this. I'm the only
person that she has known since this happened. There's nobody else, and so
you know, we have that connection, and I'm so just so proud of
her, just really really proud of her. Jessica wrote a book that she
self published this year. She only began therapy for her traumas in recent years
and went through something called memory regression. After every session, she began writing
journal entries recalling each and every detail of her horrible experiences. When she was
done, she figured she'd turn it into a book. It's called I'm Not
Broken Surviving the House Demons, and you can pick up your own copy if
you're interested, at Amazon. The link will appear in the show notes at
Swordinscale dot com. Jeffrey Rinnick also has a book detailing his most memorable cases
throughout his thirty plus year FBI career. It's called In the Name of Children,
an FBI agent's relentless pursuit of the nation's worst predators. If you found
this episode entertaining or interesting, you'll love their books. Barbara and Larry Carrasco
try to erase the very existence of five year old Alexia, but she is
forever memorialized in Jessica's Oldest Daughter and Jeffrey and Jessica's books, and in this
podcast episode you're listening to right now. Now all of you know Barbara's name
also, so if California ever does let her out, more of us can
be aware that she is and will forever be a child murderer. And look
at that, another one wrapped up every week, just like clockwork. Isn't
that weird how they just keep coming. Head on over to sortinscale dot com
to support us and keep them coming if you want to, and uh,
until next time, stay safe. I guessed my name, and I want
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I'm ready for stupid Netflix, and it's nowhere near the amount of time and
information that I've gotten from anywhere else to Sword Scale. So I started out
a ten dollars level. Stop telling people about the ten dollars level or you
already at the five dollar level. Forget it. Pay more white by buck
bottom line work the show Sword and Scale TV. Holy shit, like this
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there's such a sweet full so excited that's whole price. Funny what happens when
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