WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:16.399 Get some facts and come back and seebe. Get some facts and come back 2 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:20.640 and Seebee. Don't throw out salaries or other things. Get some facts and 3 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:25.000 come back and Seebee. You can't handle the true now told our players you 4 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:27.800 need a bit more like a dog. We don't need a bunch of cats 5 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:31.399 in here. Looking in the mirror, I look good. I got my 6 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:35.320 extra bands on, I got my other shoes. Be a doll. We 7 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:38.920 don't need no meals. We don't need no cats. We need more dogs. 8 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:44.280 Were out a detain. Oh you're not That day we weren't good. 9 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:46.920 There's no sense of asking me things about the game. I'm telling you we 10 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.479 laid an egg. So I'm not gonna break it down for you. He 11 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:54.320 sucks. He sucked. He laid an egg. That's all I have to 12 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.439 say. Guys, I'm sorry. I'm not going to break it down for 13 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:59.479 you. Nothing went well for us. It's on us. We have to 14 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:04.519 figure it out. And we went eight. Show dad. Every time I 15 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:11.079 hear the coastal Carolina, we'll talk about waity mere dogs. I don't need 16 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.480 no cats in here. Me now, I smile. I hope it brings 17 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.719 a similar expression for you on your way to work, or wherever you may 18 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.599 be listening here across the Great State of Michigan, whether it be in Flint 19 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:26.680 or Cadillac, Grand Rapids or Midland, Sagon off a City, Gray Link, 20 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.799 Gaylord Potoski, Charlevoid, Traverse City. That's where we are on Axis 21 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.799 and Bros. Across the Great State of Michigan, Monday through Friday, six 22 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:38.319 until nine. Ben is our producer. I'm Matt Shephard. The Meyer hotline 23 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:41.959 is eight sixty six eight three, eight forty eight forty three. You could 24 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:48.079 text the program sports Radio to twenty one thousand. James Edwards of the Athletical 25 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.040 join us tomorrow at eight thirty five. Benjamin Raven, who is the writer 26 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:53.599 for m Live covers the lines in the NFL, will join us at the 27 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.439 bottom of this hour. We got some texts that we want to get to, 28 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.319 but first let's go to the phone lines. Freddy is up next on 29 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:07.000 this bright sunny Wednesday. Hey Freddy, what's going on? Good morning, 30 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:09.719 Chef. I wanted to kind of finish that text because half of it didn't 31 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:15.479 come out, and as you know, a phone call versus text message is 32 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:17.560 so much easier, so much better, The context is so much better. 33 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:25.000 First of all, the the I did second guess that the second that happened, 34 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:30.120 I absolutely hated it. But you know me, I hate that stuff. 35 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:35.000 I hate you know, I hate when managers management a piece of paper, 36 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.159 meaning this is when he's most to take out a guy, This is 37 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.639 when he's supposed to you know, the old sparky or those guys will tell 38 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.319 you you gotta you gotta, you gotta manage by feel doesn't do that. 39 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:50.960 A J. Hinch doesn't manage by a piece of paper. Don't. Don't. 40 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.599 You can disagree with him all you want, and I don't. I'm 41 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:55.639 not gonna blame you for that. I don't. But don't say that he 42 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:59.479 manages by a piece of paper, because he does not. He does not 43 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:05.639 manage by paper or by analytics solely. It's part of his decision making, 44 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.000 but he does not manage that way. Go ahead, Okay, that's fair 45 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:16.919 and and but but anyways, I when he pulled me yesterday, what bothered 46 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:21.960 me, what bothered me the most was the obvious reasons. You're dominating, 47 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:27.560 you're dominating us, you're dominating a lineup, and and you're getting you're getting 48 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.879 pulled. And you know, I didn't hear this yesterday in the radio broadcast. 49 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:32.680 But I've you know, I listened a lot, but I've heard this 50 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:38.319 before from from other people or other teams or you know, you pull a 51 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.639 guy like that because you'd hate to see him lose that game. You know 52 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.400 that pisses me off because I'm like, I like to see him win that 53 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:50.360 game. Why are we talking about losing? How do we know he's gonna 54 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.599 lose? It's to me, it's like, it's like just in life. 55 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:55.719 That's the part of the texting come out. You know, you learn more 56 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:00.319 through adversity than you do baby, and someone that I know that with my 57 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.400 kids, my kids are so little. I'm always on on there, you 58 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:09.639 know what you know, because I want them to understand and learn things on 59 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.000 their own, figure it out on their own. And you know, you 60 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:17.360 pull up pitchers dominating and and maybe their philosophy was, well, we don't 61 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.680 want him to see the lineup the third time through? Well, how's he 62 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:25.279 ever going to get better if you keep doing that? That's what he did. 63 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.639 He did see me, he did see the lineup three times through. 64 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:32.079 Well. The thing is, I mean his last thinking about this, his 65 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.439 last out was out, strike out, number fourteen, he strike out Paul 66 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:41.800 gold Schmidt, and that's when Andrew Chafin came in. So I, okay, 67 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:44.519 I don't and I'm and I'm with you one hundred percent on that. 68 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:47.639 I really am. I I don't think. Let's not take it like they're 69 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:51.519 talking about losing. What they're just saying is they want that picture to have 70 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:55.399 a chance to win. He still gave him a chance to win. He 71 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:59.759 still was in line for the win. He just wasn't making the final de 72 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.720 termination. Why you take him out with a man at first? Because he 73 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:09.560 had walked Arnaudo, a chance for Burlison to hit a two run homer and 74 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.879 suddenly you'd be behind two to one. That's part of his thinking. Yes, 75 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:19.639 but I don't He and Chris Fetter and Robin Lund. Okay, part 76 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:24.600 of the pitching staff are constantly talking. Are they seeing something? Don't. 77 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.360 I don't know the answers to this. I'm just asking the questions. Okay, 78 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.839 these are some of the things that they're going on. What kind of 79 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:36.480 batter is is he about to face? How does that batter face his types 80 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:43.120 of pitching? How does he usually handle things? You know, a third 81 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:48.120 or fourth time through the order when I've already had Chafin up warming just in 82 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:53.079 case because he walked Arnaudo, and I got to make sure he's ready. 83 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:59.560 I don't want to waste him warming up for absolutely nothing. The other situation 84 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:03.120 is he's talking to feder What kind of movement, what kind of bite on 85 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:10.279 certain pitches does Jack Flaherty have. It's more than just you know what, 86 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:12.759 I want to make sure I'm getting this guy a chance to win. That 87 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:17.519 might be the simplistic explanation, but overall, there's a lot deeper dive into 88 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:23.680 it than just what we're saying. Yeah, listen, I get it, 89 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.439 I get it one hundred percent. I just I think when the kid dominates 90 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.439 like that, you give him a chance, you give a chance to work, 91 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.480 do it and win it, and you lose it. You lose it. 92 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:36.399 And that's just my philosophy. Am I right? No, Maybe I'm 93 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.120 not right, Maybe I'm not wrong, but I will end it with this. 94 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.959 You mentioned people have told you throw a less than the offseason. I 95 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.800 always go back to the Nolan Ryan interview I saw ten fifteen years ago. 96 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:53.879 He said, these guys are just not pitching enough and they're not working out 97 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:56.839 their arms enough. That's why we're having a lot of problems. And when 98 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:00.360 he took over as president of the Texas Rangers, he had his minor leaguers 99 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:05.319 pitching complete games. One of them. I don't I don't know, but 100 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:10.519 I can't. I can't say. I can't say that. And I appreciate 101 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:14.399 its phone call. It's great conversation. Thanks, Freddy. Always can use 102 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:19.360 the things that you text or call into to expand our conversation. Look, 103 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:26.399 Nolan Ryan was a freak. These guys throw in the off season constantly. 104 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.360 I don't know how much you need. You could talk to Nolan Ryan all 105 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:30.680 you want, go talk to Mickey Lowls. She'll tell you just the opposite. 106 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:35.600 Talk to Jack Morris, He'll tell you just the opposite. So there's 107 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.120 a lot of different ways you can do that. To Freddy's point, though, 108 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.040 Look, Jack Flaherty, that's the fewest pitches he's thrown since Opening Day 109 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:55.800 or the opening series. He threw eighty seven against Chicago after that, ninety 110 00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:00.519 four one hundo, ninety seven, ninety seven, and then ninety three yesterday. 111 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:05.120 So I get it. I'm not saying you're wrong. All I'm telling 112 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.199 you is that that's not how aj Hinch manages. Would Would I have liked 113 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.399 to have seen him come in or stay in, Yes, but I don't. 114 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:18.560 I don't have We don't have all the numbers and part of the you 115 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.560 know, the analytics in front of us, and that doesn't steer his decisions, 116 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.800 but it's part of it. You're crazy to think that it's not part 117 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.040 of it, and you're stupid to think that you wouldn't be doing it yourself. 118 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.559 That's the reason you have the numbers. It's the reason so many managers 119 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.279 are successful. You think Dave Roberts is a good manager, absolutely, does 120 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.039 he use analytics? Absolutely? I think Aaron Boon's a good manager. Bad 121 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:45.080 example. You think Kevin Cash is a good manager, absolutely, You think 122 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:52.840 he uses analytics more than anybody, or as much as anybody. The world 123 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:58.039 series start by Blake Snell, famous people all over. Kevin Cash. He's 124 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.080 a really good manager. He's a great manager. So I'm just saying, 125 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.320 you gotta be careful on you want to see him in there, but we 126 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:09.919 don't have all the information. That doesn't make the manager right all the time 127 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:13.840 either, Because I would have liked to keep him in. Two. Here's 128 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.039 what I would ask you boom to run Homer. You're down two to one? 129 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.000 Are you saying Frey's Probably not? But some people might have said, 130 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.840 you get Chaffin warming up. You got a better matchup with Chaffin. Why 131 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:33.679 not do that? At least Freddy's consistencid I said it at the time. 132 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.200 He's not armchair quarterbacking. We have more texts on the other side. Don't 133 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.559 forget. Benjamin Raven from m Life will join us at eight thirty five to 134 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.759 talk Lions in NFL. Here on Exis and Bros. Across the Great State 135 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:50.879 of Michigan in the Dam step up to the play with the Eagle Casino in 136 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:54.960 Sports, the mobile sportsbook app that you can bet on all your favorites all 137 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.360 year round, including of course, our national past time. So download the 138 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:03.559 app and start winning today at Eagle Casino in Sports Made in Michigan, Made 139 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.000 for Michigan. Must be twenty one years or older and in Michigan to play. 140 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.080 This is Matt Shepard. Matt Manning was used again in a Tiger's doubleheader 141 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.639 as the twenty seventh man on Tuesday. He's now made more starts in Detroit 142 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.919 than in Toledo, where he's assigned to start the year. The twenty six 143 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.679 year old and former ninth overall pick in twenty sixteen had to really impressive spring 144 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.600 minus the six home runs allowed, but minor league options, the play of 145 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.759 Casey Meisenries Olsen, and the signing of two veterans made it easy to send 146 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.120 him to Triple A. A. J. Hinch admits he knows it's hard 147 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.320 on Manning to bounce back and forth, but Manning hasn't complained. No complaints 148 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.480 for the Tigers either. Bringing up a guy like Manning only when you need 149 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:46.799 him means you have organizational depth, and that's a bonus. We're teeing off 150 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:54.399 our tenth year at the Meyer LPGA Classic for simply give. Get ready for 151 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.120 the best who are yet to help neighbors in need while enjoying golf, food 152 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:03.399 and family fun. Join us June thirteenth through the sixteenth at Blakefield Country Club 153 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.519 for fabulous food, discovery land for kids, and of course, elite women 154 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.279 golfers from around the world competing to help feed our neighbors. Get your tickets 155 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:46.799 now, admire LPGA Classic dot com. Thank put you on extras and Bros. 156 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.440 I'm Matt Shepherd, Glad you're with us Monday through Friday six till nine. 157 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.159 Check us out via text Sports Radio to twenty one thousand to get involved 158 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:03.919 in the conversation, and don't forget the Meyer Hotline eight sixty six eight three 159 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.320 eight forty eight forty three. Bottom of the Hour coming up in about fifteen 160 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:15.000 minutes or so. Benjamin Raven of m Live will join us to talk Lions. 161 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:16.960 In the meantime, we've got more texts that we want to get to. 162 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.759 In case you missed it, though real quick. Tigers and Cardinals split 163 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.639 a double dip Toronto maple Lea's with a really gutsy win. I mean, 164 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.840 I bet you people in Toronto right now are going, where the hell was 165 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.840 that effort in the previous games against Boston, they stay alive with a two 166 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:35.440 to one overtime win over the Bruins. Carolina eliminates the Islanders beyond a six 167 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.600 to three win. Colorado does the same to Winnipeg with the same six to 168 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.159 three final. In Nashville scores twice in the third of the edge Vancouver two 169 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:48.039 one to keep their season alive. Sixers over the Knicks, really gutsy and 170 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.960 impressive win. Tyrese Maxi had forty six. By the way, that ties 171 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:56.559 Michael Jordan for the most ever by a visiting player in a playoff game at 172 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:01.240 Madison Square Garden, Cavs edge the Magic by a point. They're up three 173 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:07.200 to two bucks. Stay alive beating the Pacers one fifteen ninety two without at 174 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.960 top compo and without Lillard. All right, back to the text line, 175 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.360 and you could do so. Just text sports Radio to twenty one thousand, 176 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.879 Ben. What do we got? Yeah, it says, let me know 177 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.639 when kid becomes a leader like Anthony Edwards, he's always hurt or maybe hurt 178 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:26.279 when they're losing. Leaders lead teams through the tough times. But he has 179 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:31.799 not always hurting with leg cramps. Dave Being nailed that pick on day one 180 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.679 when he said he was no leader. Boy, I don't remember Dave being 181 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.559 saying that, but I'll take your word for it. I've always said this. 182 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.799 I don't I'm not going to dispute the text. Okay, I haven't 183 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.879 been a full disclosure. I haven't been around him enough to find out what 184 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:56.559 kind of leader he is. Just because you're a team's best player doesn't mean 185 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:03.960 you're that team's leader. Okay, I've said this for a long look. 186 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:07.440 Not every Maybe it's maybe it's a poor example because it's hockey. Not every 187 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:13.960 team's best players their captain. Who's the best player on the Toronto mapleiefs Austin 188 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.240 Matthews, not just because he had sixty nine goals, but he's their best 189 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.360 offensive player for sure. But he's their best player. Their captain is John 190 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.480 Tavares. Barry Sanders is the best running back I've ever seen. Wasn't a 191 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.600 great leader that leader of that team, Chris Pielman, Robert Porchet. It 192 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:35.639 wasn't Barry Sanders. Cad Cunningham is the Pistons' best player. How much is 193 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.879 that same for a team that won thirteen games fourteen games? Not much, 194 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:46.159 I suppose. I don't know any really strong leader who's going to lead a 195 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.240 team like the Pistons that just doesn't have that much talent. They just don't. 196 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.120 Who's the guy you like on that team? Who's the guy you want 197 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.480 you want to go to deep battle with? I really like Jalen Duran. 198 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.120 I've said this numerous times. There was a couple of guys I'd keep for 199 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.440 sure. Dare I say untouchable? That's a hard thing to say. With 200 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:15.960 the team that's that bad. But I'd keep Cunningham and I'd keep durn for 201 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.960 sure. There are certain guys i'd like coming off the bench. Fontechio would 202 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.000 be really good off the bench. Don't want him starting, not on a 203 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.159 great team. What does that say about Keith Cunningham's leadership, Guys, I 204 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:35.159 don't know what kind of leader he truly is. I just don't think any 205 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.159 great lead. Look, Isaiah Thomas was an unbelievable player. He's the best 206 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.519 Piston of all time. His team was terrible when he first got to the 207 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:50.000 Pistons. You gotta have players around you. Another text, go ahead, 208 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.840 Ben yeah and says I watched the Milwaukee game, and yes, their stars 209 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.919 were out, but they had no issues running up and down the court, 210 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:07.120 high fiving players and jumping around in excitement. NBA players are week. I'm 211 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:08.960 not going to go so far to say that they're weak. But it is 212 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:17.639 interesting, isn't it. Onto te Coompo is he hasn't played the entire series, 213 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:26.240 Okay, I was. I watched a lot of that game too. 214 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.360 I was amazed at how a team can be without its quote unquote two best 215 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:37.240 players and yet look so in sync together like Patrick Beverly was a plus thirty 216 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.000 six on the floor. He didn't score a ton thirteen. And I don't 217 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.159 know how much you're into plus minus ratio in basketball. It's more of a 218 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.080 hockey stat than anything. Some people don't like it that much. I believe 219 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.600 in it. When you're on the floor and things are going well, you 220 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.720 have something to say about it. He was a plus thirty six. They 221 00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:02.320 had a way about them last night that I he hadn't seen with guys who 222 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.119 are a little bit more dominant. I'm not going to say players a week 223 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.440 like Joel Embiid's playing through some pretty tough situations right now. Give him a 224 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:17.000 ton of credit. I see guys who are battling. Look, here's what 225 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.599 I would ask you. I love all sports really, at least are big 226 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:29.599 four. Mitch Marner is a really gifted offensive player for Toronto. Three of 227 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.599 the first four games, he looked like he had no interest being there. 228 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.799 Looked like he had heavy legs, like he was skating in slash. It 229 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:45.000 wasn't necessarily getting after it on a backcheck using one hand on the stick. 230 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.039 A lot of times, he just didn't didn't look great. I'm not gonna 231 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.240 call him weak, but he didn't look engaged. How's that? I think 232 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.000 you know? In basketball? Yeah, it's going to happen like that sometimes 233 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.000 we see it all the time. Look, it's not just to TAKEMPO and 234 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.240 Lillard where you think, oh, they're weak a little bit. Look what 235 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.279 happen with Lebron James the other day with the Lakers. Walks off the floor. 236 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.519 Doesn't he shake anybody's hand, walks off the floor. Right. We're 237 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.640 gonna make excuses for him, though, because he's the greatest scorer of all 238 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.640 time, more points than anybody else, over forty thousand this year. He 239 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.000 reached over forty thousand. He reached that plateau this year earlier. But we're 240 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.039 gonna make an excuse because he's really good at what he did. He's arguably 241 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.680 the greatest of all time. But we'll give him a pass when you see 242 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:37.119 him give up on defense plenty. He missed plenty of games. I'm not 243 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.119 buying that. I'm not going to say basketball players are the NBA their week. 244 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.640 You can question if there is a problem with Milwaukee's culture. I'm not 245 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.440 close enough to the Bucks to say there is. You can question that, 246 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:55.279 no problem. I agree with you. From that standpoint, I'm not going 247 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.200 to paint the entire league with a broad brush because I would look at what 248 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.519 tyreas Maxi did last night, and I would say that is anything butt Week 249 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:11.680 to score forty six in a game on the road that your team was behind 250 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.079 and had a five percent chance of winning, but ended up winning the hell 251 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:22.839 of a test. I think that's pretty strong. I look at what Anthony 252 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:33.880 Edwards has done or Karl Anthony Towns and what they've done pretty strong. Another 253 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.880 text, Ben go ahead, Oh that was it? Oh that was it. 254 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.480 Oh, yes, that's good. Timing is fine because we get a 255 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.920 chance to talk with Ben Raven. He's coming up here at the bottom of 256 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.400 the hour to talk a little bit more about the Lions, not necessarily the 257 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:56.480 draft, but where they're going from here, what happens next. Here's the 258 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.319 only other thing I would say to the certain players are week or in a 259 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.200 certain league, I would I hate the load management bull crap in the NBA. 260 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.039 It's just accepted now. People accept it like, oh it's okay, 261 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:11.680 I mean it's all part of load management. Well, I give me a 262 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:18.000 break. Baseball players play, you know, thirteen days in a row. 263 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:22.319 Hockey players play the same number of games as basketball players. Stop with the 264 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:27.480 load management. Excuse bull crap. Okay, I can't stand that. Magic 265 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.759 Johnson came out and said that about the Lakers. He was wrong about it, 266 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.359 but he came out instead about the Lakers. Here's the other thing I'd 267 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:40.000 say though, Mike Trout's one of my favorite athletes of all time. Absolute 268 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:45.559 tough dude. He's missed a minimum of thirty games each the last three years 269 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.359 injuries, right, I mean legitimate injuries. He's got to have surgery on 270 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.680 a left in meniscus, now legitimate. Does that make him weak? I 271 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.880 don't think so. I don't know what how severe the injury was Anteticompo and 272 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:02.319 Lillard does. My hope is that guys like da who won a championship Lillard's 273 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:04.720 never won one. On the tempo has did they be playing if they could? 274 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:08.839 All? Right? On the other side, Ben Raven joins us to 275 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.079 talk football. This is Exies and Bros. On the Michigan Sports Network. 276 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:18.039 Bill Simonson here from my good friend Josh Garvey. Now he's a managing shareholder 277 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:22.799 at Dorn Mayhew's Grand Rapids office. Their world headquarters are in Troy, Michigan 278 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.920 on the east side of the state, and they have locations all around the 279 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:32.680 world. They have over five hundred and fifty motivated accounting professionals ninety years in 280 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:37.440 business, and I mentioned the ten offices worldwide. So if you want to 281 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:42.319 connect and partner with one of the top CPA accounting and business firms in the 282 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:47.799 world, they're right here in Michigan, Dorn Mayhew's Troy office on the east 283 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.799 side of the state and Josh Garvey is a managing shareholder for their Dorn Mayhew 284 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.279 gr office. Right there by the S Curve, you'll see the new Dorn 285 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:02.039 Mayhew sign. You can find out more just google Dorn Mayhew. That's Doe 286 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:07.359 ri E N M A y hgw Ordorn dot com. They're one of Americas 287 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:17.160 and the world's top CPA accounting and business firms. They're Dorn Mayhew. We 288 00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:21.640 played for the three the rushing field with the game on the line. I'm 289 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:26.799 Hermanmore Lions All Pro wide Receiver. 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Look for it at your local Retaylor at Rose Dumber 298 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:18.279 dot com thirty five after the hour here on Exes and Bros. Across the 299 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.640 Great State of Michigan. We're on in Potoski and Potoski and Traverse City, 300 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.319 I should say in Potoski and Charlotte. Boy, We're on in Midland and 301 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.640 sagoinawn Bay City. We're on up in Grayling and Gaylord and Grand Rapids of 302 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:34.599 course Cadillac Flint. Wherever it is you may be listening on our network throughout 303 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.599 the Great State of Michigan. We're glad you're with us on this Wednesday. 304 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.039 Also glad to have Ben Raven on with us. He writes for M Live. 305 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:47.480 You can follow him on x at Benjamin s Raven and he did a 306 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:52.160 great job covering the NFL Draft and the Lions season with Kyle Minke, our 307 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.079 friend on M live and Ben joins us here on Exes and Bros. Ben 308 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:59.480 glad to have you. Man. Appreciate it very much because I know your 309 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.400 time is value. I know you've been swamped with all the draft coverage you 310 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:08.359 wrote the other day the best move and the Lions' biggest risks. For those 311 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:15.960 who don't subscribe to the M Live Paychase pay page, can you give us 312 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.799 an idea of what you thought their best move was and where are their biggest 313 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:25.079 risk life from the NFL Draft this year. Absolutely, thank you Matt for 314 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:26.839 having me by the way. But the best move, you know, it 315 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:33.079 starts at the top. It starts with getting carry On Arnold that picked twenty 316 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.720 four, someone who I think was a widespread thought to be top fifteen pick. 317 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.519 I think heading into the draft every step of the way, it was 318 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.200 kind of hard to see him getting past even fifteen. So the fact that 319 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:49.559 Harry and Arnold the CB one A or one B of this draft, truly 320 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:55.920 pick twenty four for a team that needs as much past defense help as they 321 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:57.960 can get. I mean, you look back to that NFC title game that 322 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:02.720 blown lead, I mean attacked the two or three score lead. Their pass 323 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:06.960 defense broke and broke and broke. It finished last season twenty ninth in the 324 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.960 NFL, that passing yards for attempt, bad red zone marks again, and 325 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.880 you go out. You get the nation's top run defending cornerback who was also 326 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:18.640 just as sticky and coverage at Pig twenty four without mortgage in the future. 327 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.440 That it's just that's that's a home run. That was a home run value 328 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:27.400 and picked by Brad Holmes there and then the biggest risk is obviously the six 329 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:32.839 foot eight three and fifty pound offensive tackle from British Columbia. I mean, 330 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.000 this is two years in a row where you mentioned Kyle Mikey when I turned 331 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.640 to Kyle and we rotate picks when we're writing up the draft picks as they 332 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:41.880 come in, and I'm like, hey, man, I can't find a 333 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:48.279 photo of this guy for your stories. It's they see the trades, they 334 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.640 see the athleticism, and it's a risk. But as I said the other 335 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.599 day on Them Live, it's the Lions are positions with the Eagles. You 336 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.279 know, this kid gets compared to my lot though a lot. They are 337 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:04.759 positioned like the Eagles to take a risk to develop a raw prospect like that 338 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:07.920 with the guys they have in that room, and the fact that Hank Staley 339 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.720 has proven himself to be one of the best developers of the offensive line in 340 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.119 the NFL in a short time. Leaving that room in Detroit. As good 341 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.359 as they were a year ago, reaching the NFC Championship Game be point just 342 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:23.440 short in San Francisco, they will now have a different mindset and a different 343 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.839 expectation coming into this year. How will things change do you think for Dan 344 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.839 Campbell and the Lions now that they're the hunted rather hunting You know, I 345 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.759 think we know who Dan Campbell is. I think we've found out pretty quickly 346 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.359 in twenty twenty one, and I think we've found out at the end of 347 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.359 last season that he is. And as long as he's the head coach of 348 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:51.319 the Detroit Lions, they will be among the biggest gamblers, the biggest risk 349 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:55.519 takers, the most aggressive teams in the league. And I don't think I 350 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.119 mean he will adapt, he will evolve, but I don't think he's going 351 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:02.400 to change from who he is is because both he and Brad Holmes have been 352 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:04.599 very clear and upfront about who they are. You see it in Brad's draft 353 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:10.880 classes, going back to back corners taking two risks in the fourth round like 354 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:14.640 that, and I think you see Dan. They're going to go for it 355 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.200 on forts down more than anyone in the league forever and forever, as long 356 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.640 as he's in that job. Ben Raven from Mlive joining us here on exis 357 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.279 and Bros. You can fall him on x or on Twitter, Benjamin S. 358 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.000 Raven. How much better is the NFC North? Because the prevailing thought 359 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.519 is that Minnesota got a lot better, Chicago got a lot better. Of 360 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.920 course they had a bigger room to grow as well, more so than the 361 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.519 Lions. But how much better do you think the NFC North is? Yeah? 362 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.039 It is funny the Lions win their first division in thirty plus years, 363 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.440 and all of a sudden, the NFC North starts to line up like it 364 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.920 can be the best division in football, and much sooner than later. But 365 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:53.680 yeah, the Bears, I mean, I know it's hard to thank on 366 00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:57.079 a rookie quarterback. It's hard to oh this guy's going to be amazing right 367 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:02.599 off the bat. But my goodness, citizens really hard not to just see 368 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:07.119 an amazing situation set up for both Caleb Williams or JJ McCarthy and Minnesota down 369 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.160 the road. I mean, just the receivers, the offensive line, the 370 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:15.440 running backs in Chicago. I mean, we were talking about the Chicago receiving 371 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.039 corps. I mean, if Romo Duze is a quality rookie, I mean 372 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.079 he's going to be the third wide receiver this year. They got DJ Moore, 373 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:25.640 they got Keenan Allen. I mean, these are proven pros who do 374 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:27.279 a lot of things differently, and they I mean, I got to give 375 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.000 it up to Chicago. It's not easy to recover from flunk in the first 376 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.079 round draft pick that quickly. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to 377 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:37.680 call Ustin Field to plunk that. They just didn't build around them. They 378 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.559 have built a team for Caleb Williams to step into. I don't think they're 379 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:45.440 going to compete for the division in year one, but the Bears are going 380 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.599 to be. The Bears are coming and the Packers are coming to because they 381 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:52.519 just continue to throw premium picks at that defense. They continue to throw verstall 382 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.920 offensive line picks at the inside their trenches, and they got a new defensive 383 00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.279 coordinator. So I mean they got to that Jordan Love is going to be 384 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.039 better this year. And then I mean as long as if like he's got 385 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.599 Addison, Hockinson and Jefferson and Darris all that that's going to be a tough 386 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.839 group to stop right there too. And I mean they did pretty well to 387 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:12.319 get this. Yeah, I think get one of the top adusts that they're 388 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:15.200 rookie at too. Yeah, I think a lot of people were disappointed at 389 00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:21.880 Jordan Morgan is their first round pick as the offensive tackle, but those same 390 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:26.960 people probably oftentimes talk about needs. But overall, I think the Packers, 391 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.960 especially with Jordan Love at the helmet another year under his belt, are pretty 392 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:36.279 damn good. Where's your biggest concern for the Lions going into their camps. 393 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.279 It's hard to say right now because we have we don't even know what the 394 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:44.359 fifty four man roster looks like, right but we're overall, when you look 395 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.319 at it right now, where is the part where you're looking at and going 396 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.039 this could be could be a little bit of an issue for the Lions. 397 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:57.240 Yeah, it feels weird. There's not a ton of glaring glaring hold I 398 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:02.400 mean the developmental thick and man knew you could you could argue that there's a 399 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.720 little lacking depth that offensive tackle because I don't think he's going to be anywhere 400 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:10.839 near ready. I think you're looking at a pretty similar Robert Martin situation there 401 00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:14.440 where he's lucky to get ten snaps at best this first season. But uh 402 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.119 yeah, there's a little depth that offensive tackle, just in the short term. 403 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.200 And you know, I like out of the people's Sjones. I love 404 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:25.400 the idea of down to the people's Jones. He's done it in the NFL 405 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.200 before. He's a local kid. We know what he's capable of, but 406 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:30.799 it hasn't been there for a couple of years. Maybe a full off season 407 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.240 with the team, maybe a full off season working with golf will help him 408 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.319 be that wide receiver three, one of those top death wise receivers. But 409 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:42.039 I do there is a need for like a vertical outside wide receiver, somebody, 410 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.519 somebody to kind of fill that Josh Mentals role, somebody to kind of 411 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:49.759 fill that red zone role. Because while I expect Jamo to be the second 412 00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:53.519 wide receiver option and to be much better and much more involved in the offense 413 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.759 this year. They really do need another dependable outside guy. I mean, 414 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:02.519 Jared Duff closed his eyes and know where Josh Reynolds was, I mean for 415 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:04.599 three years now. So I really do think there's a short term need at 416 00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:08.519 wide receiver. There's some potential short term need for a little offensive line depth 417 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:12.759 attack all of Mets. That's about it, because they've set themselves up well 418 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.000 to have some options in the defensive backfield, and that was the main concern 419 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:19.640 for me coming into the draft. So, you know, it's a weird 420 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.279 deal. You know, there's just not a lot of glary red marks. 421 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.559 What's the expectation specifically for the first two picks Terry On, Arlold Arnold and 422 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:36.319 inness Rakestraw. Where do you expect them to be when the season begins their 423 00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:42.319 roles specifically? I have a hard time not imagining Terry and Arnold won't be 424 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:48.880 starting almost immediately. I really do think he's out side the town. Obviously, 425 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:49.880 he's got to go out there and earn it because the Lions have a 426 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:55.160 little deeper situation at corner. So I think Arnold is going to be very 427 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.880 much in this situation well Rigstaw. You know, you might not you might 428 00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.640 see him with the first couple of weeks, but his his ability in the 429 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.480 slot, and they're they're kind of desire to move Brian Branch to safety. 430 00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:10.839 Something certain looks could get rakester on the field. Obviously, he's probably going 431 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.640 to be competing with Branch and uh Mee Roberts in the new corner from the 432 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:19.759 Raiders there for some slot reps. But yeah, I expect to see a 433 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.000 lot of Harrian Arnold pretty much from to get well ray Straw. You know, 434 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.480 he might he might be have a little slower to come along. He 435 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:30.279 might kind of follow the the tract of playing behind some guys and finding his 436 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.200 spot and maybe getting a taste of specialties here and there. But I mean 437 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:37.079 he's not far off either. I mean, those other three cornerbacks they brought 438 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.920 are all here on one year deals. Those those two are the future of 439 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.759 the room. I mean, they really do feel like they've built the future 440 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.200 of their cornerback room there, so they're going to find ways to plan. 441 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:47.240 But I do think Arnold is going to be a He's going to eat a 442 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.519 ton of snaps. I really do. I think he's that good. I 443 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:55.720 know you didn't think or you weren't surprised at how many quarterbacks were taken. 444 00:32:55.799 --> 00:33:00.039 You may have been a little bit surprised by the fact that Michael Pennix went 445 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.519 eighth overall to Atlanta and then JJ McCarthy a couple picks later, but overall, 446 00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:09.519 you're not surprised there. What's from the NFL draft in general stunned you 447 00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:16.000 a little bit. That's a good question, you know. I the Falcons 448 00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:20.119 definitely broke my brain a little bit with Michael poenixtick, and it's like not 449 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:22.920 even about him, it's just the fact that they've pretty much signaled on day 450 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:27.319 one that Kirk Cousins is a bridge quarterback after handing him at one hundred million 451 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.920 dollar contract and kind of telling his teammates like, oh, he's not the 452 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:34.960 set in stone future at the position. I mean, that was that was 453 00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:39.279 the most shocking there, and got not a ton of surprises. I was 454 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:44.359 a little surprised some of the other wide receivers didn't go in the draft. 455 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:46.799 I know there were some reports out there about Ady Mitchell. I was really 456 00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:52.839 surprised he fell as far as he did. I was really surprised Race Cross 457 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:54.680 all as far as he did, not to keep it just pure locally here, 458 00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.359 but pick sixty one for a guy that a lot of people thought could 459 00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:01.319 be in the mixed twenty nine to four already is pretty solid right there. 460 00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:06.240 But yeah, that's h and I'd say just maybe the Vikings training up again. 461 00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:09.159 You know, they have gotten really to get Dallas Turner there around seventeen 462 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:14.519 or eighteen. They have been really aggressive giving up future assets to move up 463 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:16.840 and get guys that they want. I do think that that's a that's a 464 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.880 big risk for a team like that, that's welcoming a rookie quarterback that might 465 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:22.440 be starting Sam Darnold this year. You know, they kind of need to 466 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:25.079 keep as many assets as they can. So, yeah, those are the 467 00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:29.760 surprises, but yet not to I wasn't surprised by all the quarterbacks, but 468 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:34.239 I was surprised that Atlantis at Phoenix, just because you thought they were just 469 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.039 gonna focus on winning in this two to four year window with Kirk Cousins, 470 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.159 and it was just a strange methods to send the Kirk. It was just 471 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:44.599 a strange methods just end of that roster before he had even suited up as 472 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:49.079 their new quarterback. Yeah, you brought up a donnid Mitchell. I was 473 00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:54.400 a little surprised that Ricky Piersoll went ahead of like Lad McConkey, Jalen Polk 474 00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:00.199 for example. Definitely Keon Coleman. Coleman, big strong kid out of Florida 475 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:04.719 State, So that was a mild surprise for me. We're talking NFL and 476 00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:09.039 alliance with Ben Raven mlive. You can follow on x at Benjamin s Raven. 477 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.119 Back to the Lions. As we look at the depth of this team, 478 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:16.280 we're starting to and I talked about this a little bit yesterday, but 479 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:22.199 we're starting to feel like Brad Holmes can do no wrong. I'll ask you 480 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.599 the same thing I asked your friend Dave Brikette yesterday. When do you believe 481 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:35.559 the trust in Brad Holmes was complete for Lions fans? Well, that's a 482 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.079 good one. Honestly, I think it came home after that first season when 483 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:44.280 I'm on Ross Saint Brown started to come on, when Panay's school was looking 484 00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:47.239 like Honestly, I think it started with the pay School pick. I think 485 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.199 that first season really sent it home, when you know you started to see 486 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:53.480 those four round picks starting to contribute near the end of the season. But 487 00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:59.320 then it was just the culture setting pick of Aidan Hutchinson for that defense too. 488 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.239 It was like there a lot of options that wasn't as easy as everyone 489 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:05.920 thought it was that picked to that year. I mean, obviously they love 490 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.320 talks more than anyone, but there were a lot lot of good, good, 491 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:13.440 elite premium position players in that draft. Getting Aidan Hudginson and just kind 492 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.440 of that set the tone for that defense, I really do. But yeah, 493 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.920 I have to look back to that first year. I want ended in 494 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.760 that first year. A lot of people don't have growing memories about that first 495 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.880 season, but when you came out of that year and you're like, nay 496 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.719 Suel isn't even like he's just turned twenty one years old? Are you kidding 497 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.079 me? Just started the full season and looks like a that doing it. 498 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:34.320 You see i'm na Saint Brown catching game when he touchdown passes, and it's 499 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.519 like, all right, this is what this guy. This guy made his 500 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.440 name in LA by hitting on these mid round picks, and he started to 501 00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.719 see it with some of those mid round picks even by the end of that 502 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:45.679 first season. So I just think, and it's just kind of expounded since 503 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.679 then. I mean it's grown every season since then. I mean, you 504 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.920 look at that first twenty twenty one draft class now and every single one of 505 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.000 those guys is on the roster in some capacity at the end of last season. 506 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:59.000 And I don't think people realize how rare that is. I mean, 507 00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:02.920 he really is top to bottom drafting guys that are on this roster in some 508 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.639 capacity, and that's just that's his retention rate and his hit rate is among 509 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.800 just the absolute best in the league. And I just love the fact that 510 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:14.679 he sticks to his guns. I mean it challenges the way I think about 511 00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:16.920 the game, It challenges what I think he should do and stuff. So 512 00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:21.239 I mean, I really mean he has really changed the way I look at 513 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.000 the game and break things down. And just taking a first round running back 514 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:28.559 last year too, just aggressive, aggressive, and it turns out to be 515 00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:31.559 one of the best sticks in the entire orders. So just it's a really 516 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:37.320 good point by you. It's a really good point by you because I never 517 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.599 thought of it that way from the first year, just because the first year 518 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.159 wasn't very good in terms of ones and wins and losses. But now that 519 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:50.440 you bring it up, that all those draft picks are on that team. 520 00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:52.360 I thought it changed last year. Quite honestly, I thought it was with 521 00:37:52.480 --> 00:38:00.079 Jamior Gibbs. I mean, look, that was widely panned by national and 522 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:05.840 local fans and writers and broadcasters and analysts. Why are you taking a first 523 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:10.000 round for he thought he knew exactly what he wanted, exactly what this team 524 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:14.320 needed, and it was a special player. And I think we've been at 525 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:19.440 least after one year, we've been proven we were wrong. He was right, 526 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.000 and it's tough for us in the media to say that we were wrong. 527 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.719 I think that's when people really said, Okay, I'm not going to 528 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:29.239 question him. It's okay to wonder a little bit, but I don't think 529 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:35.039 we're going to question him like we did before that pick. Oh, absolutely 530 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:37.880 right. And I'll be honest, I remember when that pick came in, 531 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:42.239 and I'm like, wait, they've traded down, they didn't take the job, 532 00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:45.280 and they still took a running back. Like I will fully own that. 533 00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:49.039 That was my initial thought process for the first four months of that situation. 534 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.920 I mean, I just think it really shows the positive aspect of the 535 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.639 Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell kind of fifty fifty roster decisions, share the ownership 536 00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:01.159 structure for this team, because you don't see general managers that at the finger 537 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:05.800 of the pulse on their roster, on their depth chart top to bottom like 538 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.159 he does. Like he truly that Jamiir Gibbs pick was knowing exactly what this 539 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:14.920 offense needed without looking at the position. So it's just he's yeah, I 540 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:17.320 will never question him like that again. We will question him, we will 541 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.639 disagree with stuff he does, but he has earned a lot of a lot 542 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:27.079 of leeway because he truly understands this roster from top to bottom, and he 543 00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.599 don't make a pick like Jamiir Gibs at twelve overall, when you need a 544 00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:32.880 ton of more stuff without knowing, without knowing your team at a deep, 545 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.719 deep level. Right, lastly, before I let you go, what happens 546 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:42.840 with Jared goffin win. Yeah, I think it's coming. I really do 547 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.000 think it's coming before the start of the season. It just kind of sounds 548 00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:49.440 like they're getting their p's and q's around. I mean, we talked to 549 00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.719 Piney School yesterday and his deal took three or four months to come together. 550 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.440 It's Saint Brown a very similar deal. It's gonna be some big money with 551 00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.400 the quarterback deal. So I think there's some get that draft clas in there, 552 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.599 get those on side free agents signed, get a better maybe make one 553 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:07.599 more free agent addition, get a better idea where your roster at that Jerry 554 00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:09.119 Goff is going to be getting that new contract. Look, I think he'll 555 00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:13.480 be here before the start of the regular season. That's the last thing you 556 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.960 want is something like that hanging over a quarterback or any player, but especially 557 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.079 a quarterback, because when you're in that locker room, it's the inevitable thing 558 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:28.039 that has to be discussed. And and if it's not with him and he 559 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.920 says, look, I'm not talking about it, people are gonna end up 560 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:32.880 talking to other players about it. And it's not something you want hanging over. 561 00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:35.960 So they want to get it done, and they should get it done. 562 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.639 Ben great stuff is always really appreciate it. Give them a follow on 563 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:45.119 X Benjamin s Raven great stuff with m Live He and Kyle Monikey tag teaming 564 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.480 on a hell of a job regarding the Lions NFL Draft in the NFL in 565 00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:50.519 general. Have a great rest of your week, man, I appreciate your 566 00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.039 time very much. Yeah, thank you, Matt, thanks for having me 567 00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:57.239 calling me anytime. I appreciate that. Yeah, we will do that. 568 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.639 We'll take you up on that. Ben Raven joining us here to Exes and 569 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.159 Bros. Very interesting stuff. Good. I love that perspective, you know. 570 00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.440 And you just talked with Penny Suel yesterday. See that's those Those are 571 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.159 important conversations to have with a man like that. Who was there talking with 572 00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:15.239 Penney sol Hey, listen, how long did it take? These are not 573 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:17.760 things that take a week. Okay, it's not you and your wife sitting 574 00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:22.840 down at the table figuring out a budget and getting it done the following week 575 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:28.599 or the following day. The teams, these things take time. So the 576 00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:31.760 Jared Goff maybe we'll talk more about that tomorrow. Ben, we can do 577 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.679 that because how much do you want Jared Goff? And for how long? 578 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:42.480 How long is the term? How much is too much? We'll definitely have 579 00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.039 that conversation tomorrow here on Exes and Bros. Are thanks to Ben, our 580 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:49.519 producer, Our thanks to Ben Raven from m Live, and our thanks to 581 00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:52.440 you for your phone calls, really good phone calls this morning and your texts. 582 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:58.159 Keep them coming. Exes and Bros. Monday through Friday six until nine 583 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.199 The Huge Show on most of the same Great Network stations. Later on this 584 00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:06.599 afternoon from three to six. We'll talk to you again Thursday morning. You're 585 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:08.519 on Exus and Bros. Across the Great State of Michigan. Thanks for listening. 586 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:13.760 Friday, July twenty sixth. 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