WEBVTT

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What it's April. What do you
mean it's April? What happened in March?

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What happen in February? There we
go. Time is ticking on.

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You know, I'm excited because this
is the month for our Grant Egyptian Tour

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number five, and we're taking a
nice group of listeners to the secrets of

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ancient Egypt. And you know what
makes us fun is that we start off

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in Cairo and we spend a day
on the plateau looking at some of the

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buildings there, and there's some amazing
megalithic buildings, the Sphinx Temple and the

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Pyramids themselves, and the surrounding area
has all kinds of fascinating bits and pieces

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of history that we discover we enjoy. And so that is the kickoff.

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That's the twenty sixth of this month
that is coming up, and wow,

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exciting to go back. You know, I have to mention this that I

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have been fortunate to run into some
really great tour operators who aren't focused so

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much on the almighty dollar. They
want to give back to the tourists,

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meaning that they find great locations.
For the most part, our tours are

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private, meaning that we get to
go to these locations without the general public.

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You know, we go inside the
Pyramid when everyone's gone, we go

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I mean they shut it down at
five. We go there around seven when

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it's aired out, it's been somewhat
refreshed, and there's no line. There's

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no line. I can't imagine going
into the Great Pyramid, the Cufu Pyramid

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with a line of people. That
would be not only claustrophobic, but just

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oh a challenge because everything's staircases and
down through the subterranean chamber, which is

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just a tube, basically a square
tube. So yeah, it's great to

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do private visits. And then we
go to Abodos and we see the Osiren

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unusual building, We go to the
Serapim, we go to a number of

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museums. Oh, it's just just
an amazing time of year ago and we're

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looking forward to it. I want
to mention this real quickly. I found

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out a couple of months ago that
doctor Ed Barhard, our own doctor Ed,

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has been to and taking groups to
Easter Island Jesus. And when he

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showed me some photographs, I was
like, oh, I got to do

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that. And so I don't know
how many people we can take I think

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it's gonna be maxing at twenty five, but we want to do this in

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twenty twenty five. We want to
do this next year. So if you're

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interested in joining us in the Easter
Island and Ed's tour is in some areas

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that don't typically get a tourism,
come out and join us. Send me

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an email to Earth Ancients for you
at gmail dot com. Let me know

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if you want to go. I
think I got fourteen people so far,

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so that's like, what's that it's
almost a little more than half. Well

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take twenty five us less than half, and that's gonna be amazing because I've

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been wanting to go there for years. So check that out. Check out

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out all of our tours at earth
Ancients dot com forward slash tours Egypt this

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month, we're gonna be in Turkey
in August, and then we do our

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the Mexico Yucatan Temples on November eighth
through the seventeenth, So Earth Ancient you

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want to see it all, They're
all listed on Earth ancients dot com,

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forward slash tours Hey. Today is
the beginning of our programming with Cosmic Summit

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Conference, which is June fifteenth,
and sixteenth. They have an amazing lineup

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of guests speakers from around the world, people like Randall Carlson, Robert Schock,

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Scott Walter from Unearth America, our
own favorite Praven Mohan, Hugh Newman,

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and a whole bunch of other people
including today's guest Ben Van Kirkwick from

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Uncharted X. This is a very
very good program, great conference. If

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you can get out to North Carolina, consider it. For more information on

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all the details, go to cosmicsummit
dot com, forward slash Earth Ancients.

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We are our media sponsor, and
if you can't get out there, consider

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doing the streaming. You can see
these guys live from the comfort of your

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computer, your TV, wherever you
are. And I gotta tell you the

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reason I love this is the price
fifty bucks to do the streaming for the

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Saturday the fifteenth of June or Sunday
the sixteenth. Fifty bucks is nothing.

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It's so cheap. And we're gonna
have George Howard on next week to talk

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about this. These a listers from
the world of anomalist Discoveries. Always fun

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to have. Rendal Carlson. By
the way, Randall will be on the

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show as well as most of these
other people throughout the next two and a

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half months, so we'll get a
chance to discuss what they're talking about.

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But Cosmicsummit dot com stream it.
You know, I've always telling people,

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if you can get to these conferences, sit down and see what is going

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on. Most of them have exhibits
of their material, some of them have

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artifacts. Really get a sense of
what's happening, where the whole industry is

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heading, and lots of new discoveries. So it's always fun to be a

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media sponsor because not only do we
have great people to talk with, we

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get a chance to promote these worthy
conferences. And I got to tell you

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there's a lot that are not worthy. I shouldn't say that everyone's doing their

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best, but you know, there's
so many conferences on UFOs, on aliens

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and stuff like that. It's really
rare to have a conference that has actual

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scientists and really top of the line
research investigators giving us a sense of the

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ancient past. And this is what
Cosmic Summit is all about. So again

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for the details on the tickets on
the lineup, go to Cosmicsummit dot com,

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forward slash Earth Ancients and check it
out. My guest today is going

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to be Ben vn Kirkwick from Uncharted
x and he is got a lot to

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say about not only the Egyptian ruins
that he's visited. He just came back,

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I think a couple of weeks ago, after a six week tour of

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many of the ruins, and of
course he is doing research there and so

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we're gonna hear about what he discovered, what's some of the what are some

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of the interests that he is pursuing. And we finished this interview with new

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highlights on these unusual vases that have
been found at Sakara that apparently our machine

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was some unknown technology and they don't
really know if they were used as everyday

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household fases, plates, bowls,
whatever, but it's it's a it's evident

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that these things were uh carved using
some technology we don't know and they're really,

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really, really a great fascination.
So so again the program is the

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Unknown History of Egypt, and my
guest today is Ben Van Kirkwick from Uncharted

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x H. This week we start
our support of the conference Cosmic Summit.

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It's going to be held in North
Carolina June fifteenth to the sixteenth, and

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one of the feature presenters is a
gentleman who I haven't met, but I've

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heard a hell of a lot from
about and that's Ben van Kirkwick. He

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is the Uncharted ex Promoter author and
he's a research and investigator who's done a

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hell of a lot of good work. And it's funny because it's a small

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world. We know a lot of
the same people out there, and so

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we want to get into it pretty
quickly. Can see Ben at the conference,

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and they do have streaming media,
which I think is fantastic. So

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if you can't get yourself out to
North Carolina, check out Ben. You

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can go to a cosmicsummit dot com
forward slash Earth Ancients and see the detail.

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They're charge gen fifty bucks for two
days of streaming, and I got

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to tell you people, that is
unheard of. Usually it's about one hundred

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and fifty a day and there's all
kinds of side gigs and things they want

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to do, So fifty bucks for
two days is excellent. So, hey,

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Ben, welcome to Earth Ancient.
It's great to see you, Cliff,

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thanks so much. Yeah, it's
great to finally meet. Yeah,

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I've like you say we're running similar
circles, but we've never actually had the

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chance to chat before. Been looking
forward to it. Yeah, okay,

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let's get down to it. When
did you you have this? You have

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a background in engineering, but yeah, this whole phenomenon. I mean,

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I started traveling to Egypt in twenty
eighteen, and I had heard about it,

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and I'd read Chris's book, and
I've known Chris for years. Blown

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away by the by the pyramid,
blown away by buildings like the Ossyrian,

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blown away by just so much.
What is what is your interest? I

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mean, is it the same or
are you taking it a step further and

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drilling down into I try to character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

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a route to the name. But
yes, so my interest. I've always

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been interested, I would say,
just the whole history topic. I did

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get started in technology and engineering.
I have a computer science degree. I

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started an engineering I switched over to
computer science, but I had a twenty

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year career in that, working for
Hewlett Packard more or less the whole time.

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But I had always been interested,
and I was always and this is

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a similar story to a lot of
people, but I was always a fan

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of Graham Hancock and his work Fingerprints
of the Gods was a fantastic read for

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me, and it revitalized a lot
of that interest, I guess in the

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early two thousands for me, and
then I had the chance to travel with

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him. I was following him pretty
closely, and I think I was back

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in twenty thirteen. I spent a
couple of weeks with him in Peru and

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Bolivia, which is another one of
those spots on the world that's just full

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of these mysteries and this incredible stuff
work and these giant deltas in technology that

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are very obvious once you see it
between what the Inca were capable of and

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then this older sort of mysterious megalithic
stone work. And then a year or

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two after that, I went to
Egypt also with Graham on a tour with

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him. I think that was twenty
fifteen, and you know, it was

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really on that trip to Egypt,
my first time in Egypt, but I

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was just like, man, there's
there's absolutely something here. It was during

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those two weeks where I met a
very good friend of mine and a teacher

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of mine for many years now,
usef Awen, who's the son of a

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chem Laonen and he you know,
he has that a similar mindset to me

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in terms of he's drilling down into
these engineering details. I wouldn't say the

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two drills and the analysis of toolworks, and he's a stonemason. That's not

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really a topic that you know,
Graham goes super heavy into, but it's

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certainly one that I'm particularly interested in. So that really I was like,

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man, there's something here. I've
got to go and pursue this in more

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detail. So after that, I
just kept going back to Egypt and back

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to Egypt and other places around the
world and diving into it and then learning

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about guys like Chris done the work. You know, you started reading Flinta's

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Petrie and getting into that engineering aspect
of it. And I typically do focus

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a lot on the evidence for what
I'd call like a lost ancient technology,

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which is literally I think the title
of one of Chris's books has, you

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know, lost lost, lost Egyptian
technology, whatever it is, lost technology

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of ancient Egypt. I'm sorry,
and yeah, and that's that's my focus,

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and that's just I like to dive
into those details and try and look

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at the history of discovery of these
things. What were the controversy that they've

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that some of these different bits of
evidence have been generating, and in some

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cases you're talking about debates that have
been going on for one hundred and fifty

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plus years, when you know,
from Petrie's time right up until modern day,

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and I've never really found any of
the standard model explanations for it to

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be sufficient. And and yes,
by doing that, it's it's led us

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to where we are today with and
it's something I was super pleased to hear

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from, you know, Chris Dunn, and I became friends with Chris Dunn

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also his son Alex, and just
to find out that then they had actually

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been doing something that I'd been calling
for for years without the capability to do

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it, I guess, but the
idea that we can apply our modern technology,

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apply all of our efforts in an
open minded fashion to investigate some of

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these mysteries and these objects and artifacts
and try to peel back that onion and

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learn a bit more about how they've
been made. And we started, you

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know, they were doing that with
the vases, and then I started to

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cover it and came in and and
and that was that whole project, I

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guess, And that the videos that
came out from that led to this open

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source, crowd sourcing nature of a
lot of other people piling in and with

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various expertises in different areas, whered
cryptographers and other even investors who then went

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out and purchased more vas for more
analysis. And it's just we've learned a

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tremendous amount in the last the last
year or so on some of these artifacts,

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and I think it's it represents kind
of one of the largest leaps forwards

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in our understanding of some of these
precise objects in many decades. I got

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to mention that your YouTube channel unshuted
x as a monster. It's almost at

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half a million people. Bravo to
you to do that, and you have

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good, very high production standards,
and I really enjoy watching your program,

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So you got you've got a good
following. Why do you think the orthodoxy,

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if you want to call it,
the academia is so disconnected from this

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obvious what we see as super anomalies. It's yeah, I mean I think

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there's a few reasons for it.
The first one I'd say is that and

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this is something that I hope in
the future a little bit, and that

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is that I wouldn't describe euroclassic Egyptology, or I mean archaeology in general as

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being particularly engineering focused, Like I
think, there, you know it is.

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It's a science, but it's probably
more closely related to like cultural studies.

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A lot of archaeology and egyptology is
looking at what daily life like,

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how did their society work, what
was their structure, what were they saying,

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what were they writing. That's what
they're interested in. There's generally not

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a huge amount of interest in how
things are manufactured, or what level of

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precision is shown in particular artifacts,
or know how they achieved some of the

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things that they obviously did. Who
I mean, the evidence is right there

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and in front of us that these
things were achieved, So that's the first

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thing. So but at the same
time, they do try to address these

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problems, and they I find that
it's an interesting fact that they do claim

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dominion over ancient artifacts. It's something
I say often is like you wouldn't ask

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an archaeologist to to design the chair
that he's sitting on, but if it's

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an ancient chair, he's going to
claim sort of authority over it. So

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that's that's been one problem. Because
a lot of the new data and new

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these new things that are I think
affecting that story of history are coming from

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fields outside of archaeology, adjacent fields
of science. You've got there's all sorts

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of things now in you know,
climate science and DNA and genetic evidence along

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with the engineering aspects of it.
So I think ultimately i'd like to I'd

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hope that archaeology itself becomes a bit
more multidisciplinary and the other the other aspect

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to this, I think is and
this is something that is the case in

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many sciences that have a have it
established or just like an establishment which it's

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by its own nature is sort of
going to resist change. You have people

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that have their authority I think,
and their positions that are derived from their

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their sense of personal power, and
their authority is derived from their position as

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an expert in this particular interpretation of
it. So I think there's been a

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strong defense of that standard model of
history, which really hasn't changed much in

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the last one hundred years. We've
had that similar story of civilization started six

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thousand years ago, et cetera,
and it was very much a primitive build

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up from you know, Stone age
to a Bronze Age, then you know,

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on to where we are today,
and that's you know, that's that's

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something that may may be only shifted
through generational change. I certainly remain hopeful

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at that because I do get contacted
by students that are going to be the

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academics of tomorrow, and they,
I think have no choice but to deal

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with some of the evidence that independent
researchers and other fields of science are presenting,

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and they seem and certainly there's I
think it there's going to be a

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bit more of an open minded approach
in the future. But I think that's

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one of the challenges and one of
the reasons why I think the academics in

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this field have such a strong response
and pushing back. It's because the nature

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of the discourse has changed too like
it used to be. That's why I'm

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such a fan of guys like Flinder's
Petrie, because if you read their work,

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some of these old sort of Victorian
era or turn of the nineteenth century

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explorers, I mean, they're a
bit more open minded. I mean Petrie

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was would tell you when there's something
he couldn't explain. But those discussions he

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was having with his peers happened in
those you know, in those society groups

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or in the university halls of residents
and things, and that's shifted now like

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that's in you know, fifty so
years ago. We see the rise of

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alternative, independent researchers publishing books that
are doing an end run around there's university

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systems that the conversation started to get
broadened out. And then you have the

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Internet and you have YouTube, and
you have you know, punters like me

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can somehow get a voice in a
platform and present their ideas, and it's

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I think in some ways it's probably
a little threatening to that establishment. If

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you look at the reaction to Graham
Hancock show, you know, Engine Apocalypse,

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that's evident that I think guys like
John Hoops and the Society of American

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Archeology, they're desperate to be able
to figure out how they can get into

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social media and popular media and podcasts
and things like that. So I think

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I think it's just forced a bit
more of a visceral reaction given that the

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now there's a lot of this discussion
and a lot of these topics are being

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talked about outside of those just purely
academic domains. I think you're right.

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I think that there is a need
to present history in some kind of a

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logical manner, even though it isn't
always logical when you look at the artifacts,

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and these these guys are threatened by
people like Graham Hancock. So I'm

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curious Ben on your take on the
unusual artifacts and buildings like the Osirian and

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Serrapium, the Gigantic boxes. We're
told that you know, from an an

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novelist point of view, that there's
a prehistory, an unknown history. But

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there's also a group of Egyptologists and
even people that I hang with, like

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Mohammed Embriam, who does our tours
I know my pretty well, who believes

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that perhaps in the Middle Kingdom there
was a Renaissance period where maybe there was

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a discovery of this high tech.
But what do you say about that,

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because you know, the problem when
you're dealing with any ancient culture is there's

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so little documentation. Yeah, it's
all guesswork. Yeah it's tough, and

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he's you know, you're right,
there is this is in the nuance of

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kind of ancient Egyptian history. But
there is definitely there seems to be almost

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a high quality or high and the
Middle Kingdom is quite short relative to the

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other periods. There is this seems
to be a little an uptick in quality

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of work. There's the subtle differences
between say, Middle Kingdom and New Kingdom,

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and the Middle Kingdom stuff seems to
be often superior in terms of stone

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work. It's possible. I do
think that a lot of I mean,

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it's something Use also says a lot
and I agree with him as you can't

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ever underestimate the dynastic Egyptians. I
mean, so, for example, I

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think some of the statues at Luxe
or there's a subtle difference between what is

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what is achievable, and what isn't
And some of those statues there I think

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were done during those periods, potentially
in the Middle Kingdom as well, and

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then they were overwritten later on by
Ramsy's a second in the New Kingdom and

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had his name put on them.
But you know, it's there's evidence for

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I think these the real significant tools
and stone work that goes back to the

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very earliest periods of time as well. And these are you know, Old

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Kingdom things that are in the pyramids. You've got tube driels something that I

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kind of term on the trips and
stuff is like pyramid builder technology. So

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to me, it's it seems clear
that there was certainly something going on before

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the dynastic Egyptians sort of rose and
had their civilization as we know it,

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which is also something that they themselves
say, like they have their own history

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in their books, and there's several
sources for this, the Turin Papyrus Manato

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that goes back some forty two thousand
years, I think, And they talk

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about themselves as a legacy civilization and
refer to times like Zeptepi, when the

279
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gods themselves walk to the earth.
So it does this idea that there was

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a precursor civilization and that they are
the legacy of that. They are still

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connected to, they have cultural memories
of it, if not their technology.

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I think that matches with what they
say and it it does, to my

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mind, matches some of the evidence
we see on the ground. But it's

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also possible that some of that may
there may have been either groups or like

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sex or certain parts of ancient Egypt
during that they might have had some some

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of this capability. I'm not entirely
convinced that that's the case. I do

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think you can explain a lot of
this with the idea that there's been and

288
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you know, it's the result of
just generation after generation after generation of particular

289
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trades, and they became very skilled
at working in stone. But there are

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differences, like there are even I
think the Middle Kingdom statues the good ones

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at lux Or, if you look
closer, there's there's a real difference between

292
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in the stone finishing, the tool
marks, the details, the depth of

293
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cuts, things like that that I
think that separate even the best work that

294
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comes from the Middle Kingdom from stuff
that I just don't think you can explain

295
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with any Bronze Age tools or technology. And then of course the dating of

296
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all of this gets really mixed up. It's one of the reasons why I

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think the vases are such a smoking
gun in this argument, because the vases

298
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go back fifteen thousand years plus,
right, they well and truly proceed the

299
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Egyptian civilization. You see the same
technology on the vases that you see on

300
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things like statues, box of slabs, and architecture. But those are massive

301
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objects that you can't have buried with
you. They can't be buried in a

302
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.720
tomb that then gets dated later on
through carbon dating or whatever. These things

303
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are massive objects that sit on sites, so the sites get inherited, they

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00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:15.039
get renovated, reused, and then
some pharaoh with hubris and self importance puts

305
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his name on it later on,
and then therefore that's how it gets dated.

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That's like the bedrock of Egyptology is
like whatever's written on it is kind

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of the authoritative. I want to
touch on that point real quickly. Ben.

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You highlight an issue that I have
come to recognize, where these pharaohs

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have tremendous egos, and Ramsey is
the second is credited with a huge building

310
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pyramid, but looking more and more
like he may have just decided to reuse

311
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temples, pyramids and even statuary.
And this is not something that Egyptology is

312
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.960
recognizing or even considering, even in
the face where you a cartouche which is

313
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:07.039
very roughly cut into a statue and
then you have a beautiful piece of statue.

314
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:11.519
Whey, that's gorgeous. In fact, it's it's it's really high level

315
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.400
stuff. Yeah, well it's it. They do actually acknowledge it. It's

316
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.720
it's not often, it's not often
talked about, but they do. It

317
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:27.160
is even Petrie. Petrie called Ramses
the great usurper, and he did,

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Yeah, he called him Ramses they
instead of the great He'd called him the

319
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great usurper because he would was notorious
for doing this, and it is,

320
00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:38.240
it's somewhat it's like quietly acknowledged.
They don't often talk about it. They

321
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.960
just they just look if his name
is on it, then it gets dated

322
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and related to him. But there's
tremendous evidence that that's that he was overriding.

323
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:48.599
He wasn't the only one. There
was a number of pharaohs. His

324
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.240
son, like Marion Petar even said
he the first was doing some of it.

325
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.759
So these these nineteenth dynasty kings were
particularly notorious for it. But you

326
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.960
know, I personally think there was
recycling and reuse of of stuff going on

327
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:06.720
as far back as the Old Kingdom
and Ramsey's I mean, look that there

328
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.400
are there's some artifacts that have the
name of three or four different pharaohs on

329
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:14.599
them, like cartouosh is carved into
it that span a thousand year time period,

330
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.400
so it's it becomes very hard to
date and relate that stuff. And

331
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.519
then there's other, as you say, other evidence where there's there's clear obvious

332
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evidence that cartoushes have been added later. I mean not only the quality of

333
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:30.160
the cartouche relative to the rest of
the stonework. That's a huge point.

334
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:36.039
But also where you have cartoushes that
have been added over pre existing features of

335
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.160
a statue. So it's a really
good example I'd like to show people at

336
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.680
lux Or. Again it's it's like
a cartouche that's been added over the belt

337
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.480
line of one of these statues,
and they have that like a dagger and

338
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.960
this kilt that they're wearing, and
you can still see the dagger, like

339
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.559
the lines of the dagger and the
kilt behind the cartous Now, of course,

340
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:55.240
if you were designing that statue to
have a cartoushe on it in the

341
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:59.000
first place, you would you wouldn't
go to the effort of of actually,

342
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:03.480
you know, carving those delicate features
on it, only to then eraise it

343
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.920
and hammer over it roughly with these
glyphs. So yeah, it's it's tough

344
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.640
to say. I mean he was
he was taking stone from the Middle Pyramid.

345
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I mean he was taking granite stone
from the Middle Pyramid. I think

346
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the sites themselves that are mostly attributed
to him, places like karnak Ye and

347
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:25.759
Luxor. I mean there's obvious levels
and multiple periods of building to those that

348
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.119
there's lower levels, there's you know, these these sites often feature a granite

349
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.240
core that show very sophisticated stone work, and then clear imitation of that in

350
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:38.759
the sandstone work that Ramses likely did. I mean he did have. They

351
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:44.039
were extremely wealthy and powerful during his
time, so he probably did do an

352
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.880
awful lot of building, But I
don't think he had the capability to do

353
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.559
some of that granite work that we
see, and he was imitating it.

354
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:56.000
Like there's if you ever look at
like those palm shaped or lotus shaped,

355
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.519
massive single piece granite columns, there
are incredible pieces of art work, but

356
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.400
then you put one of those and
you look at and right next to it,

357
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.839
there'd be a sandstone column that's oftentime
is larger, but it's made up

358
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:10.880
of these round blocks of sandstone that
have been stacked up on top of each

359
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:15.319
other, and it's imitating that shape. And even though it's a bigger column,

360
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:19.359
it's exponentially easier to do that in
sandstone than it is to carve this

361
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:23.960
one single piece of granite. So
I think in the case of a lot

362
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:26.799
of these sites and a lot of
these artifacts, their history is probably far

363
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:33.279
older and more complex than we're led
to believe by kind of the orthodox story

364
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.160
that you get when you go there
with a regular tour guide and or you

365
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.920
read the history books and say,
you know, Ramsey's built Karnak or Ramsey's

366
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:42.720
built lux or even the highs,
Like there's literally names of Middle Kingdom and

367
00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:47.079
even Old Kingdom pharaohs on those sites, so we know those sites were there

368
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.759
well and truly before the New Kingdom. You know, we get into the

369
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:56.200
problem with the King's List and it
goes back tens of thousands of years,

370
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:06.079
and yet the the uh, how
does it be only recognize dates that seem

371
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.519
to fall into the hunter gatherer period
and then beyond that it's all myth?

372
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:12.759
That's right, Well, it's it's
a I like to think of this,

373
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:17.000
it's like a so, yeah,
you have the King's List, and particularly

374
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:21.160
there's more than one source for this, but it's generally broken up into three

375
00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.200
periods. You have ZEPTEPI, which
is the oldest period where they say the

376
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:29.839
gods themselves walked to the earth and
that's I think it was almost like thirty

377
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.799
something thousand years and then or twenty
eight thousand years, and then you have

378
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.799
the shemsu Hare, the time of
the followers of Horus, who are these

379
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:41.279
semi divine mystical beings also described as
having mystical powers. And I like to

380
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.599
always think of like, well,
if you are a primitive culture or any

381
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.920
culture really that is seeing the evidence
or seeing technology that they can't explain,

382
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:52.480
it's just that's magic, right,
That's that's what magic is. That's we

383
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:56.880
or science. That's just science you
haven't discovered yet. But the period of

384
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.039
zeb Tepi is about sixteen thousand years. It's it's about it. It's a

385
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.079
similar period to sorry, shemsu Whore
is about sixteen thousand years. And then

386
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.079
that's a that follows zep Tepi,
and then you then you end up with

387
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.559
Menes, the first pharaoh of the
First Dynasty, and then off we go,

388
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.160
and the Egyptians describe all of this
as their history, like they didn't.

389
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.000
They made no distinction between like,
well, this is myth and legend

390
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:23.519
and this is our history. But
it's our modern scholars and academics who decide,

391
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.720
well, no, it's it starts
it with Menes in the you know,

392
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.400
the first the first phaar of the
First dynasty, the Old Kingdom,

393
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.480
and everything before that is just myth
and legend like that's this arbitrary line in

394
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:38.200
the sand that's been made by our
our scholars today. Is zep Tepi's what

395
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.319
like eighty thousand years ago or something? What depends that there's a couple of

396
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:47.160
different sorts. I think it's I
think it's it's forty forty thousand. I

397
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.079
think it's okay, Yeah, yeah, it's I think the whole thing spans

398
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.759
like forty six or forty eight thousand
years. I have to look it up,

399
00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:57.119
but there's it's in that realm.
Yeah. The interesting thing to point

400
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:04.079
out, though, is if they
kept the same traditional clothing or costume and

401
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:14.920
you know, design themes from forty
thousand to yeah, you know a few

402
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:22.720
thousand years ago, that's open for
interpretation. You can get confused. And

403
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:30.200
if there was a high art which
you identify in your work, then the

404
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:35.640
only thing we can think of is
comparative study. You compare one period to

405
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:38.079
another. One of these areas that
I'm curious about. Have you been to

406
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:43.519
Abu Sabil? Yes, Simbel,
yes, I have you. I think

407
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:49.119
when they attribute that to a Ramsey
second, I think that's one of those

408
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:53.359
places where he just put his cartoons
on or yeah. Do you know the

409
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:59.920
story of one of his engineers.
He asked one of his engineers to fix

410
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.440
the one body of the torso on
the head that had been broken down.

411
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.720
It's in the lais in front.
And the story goes that Ramsey asked his

412
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:15.000
engineers to fix this, and the
engineers say, we have no way of

413
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.359
doing and you have no way of
fixing it. We don't know how,

414
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.720
we don't know how it was.
I have to find that that's a good

415
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:24.440
story. I'd like to like to
hear that Abison Bell is interesting. I

416
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:30.400
you know, I'm not. I
don't know. I suspect it's I think

417
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:36.440
Abison Bell is a possible it's possibly
dynastic, just my opinion, because it's

418
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:39.799
it's one thing. It's it's sandstone. It is I mean it's massive,

419
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:43.960
right, it's it's it's the biggest
carving, isn't it one of the biggest

420
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.680
not free standings. So Abison Bell
is carved into a sandstone. I mean,

421
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:51.319
yeah, it's cuffed into the Yeah, so nobody had to move anything

422
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.200
like that's one thing. So nobody
had to move anything. It's it's not

423
00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:58.000
the biggest statue there. There are
bigger there's evidence for bigger single piece of

424
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.079
granite statues well and truly in excess
of a thousand tons in Egypt, several

425
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:06.440
of them. And this is the
difference to me, This is I think

426
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:08.239
Ramses was probably trying to emulate.
If he did that, I think he

427
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.719
was trying to emulate these statues,
because as amazing as Abison bell is,

428
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:16.840
I just I don't quale the proportions
are a little off. I just looking

429
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.760
at it, and I've only been
there that once, I feel like it's

430
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.559
just he might have just had that
carved into a sandstone hillside, and there's

431
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.599
no none of the logistic, logistic
challenges that you would have when you're talking

432
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:34.360
about say a thousand or twelve hundred
ton statue made from granite. And we

433
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.159
have evidence for several of these,
like there's one of these, the one,

434
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:42.199
probably the best preserved one is that
the Ramesseum on the West Bank.

435
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:45.159
Of course it's the Ramesseum because it's
attributed to Ramseys. But there's a giant

436
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:50.119
the shoulders and knee but torso of
this and the head of this thing,

437
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.000
and it's laying on its side.
It's one of the most massive pieces of

438
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.840
granite you'll see just the pedestal that
it sits on is seven hundred tons,

439
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:59.960
and that's an individual block of granite, just the just the block that they

440
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.760
statue was lifted up and put on
as seven hundred tons. And you know

441
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.320
that's still one hundred and fifty miles
from Aswine, where the granite came from.

442
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.840
But what's even more remarkable is we
have evidence for this type of a

443
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.360
statue. There's a giant foot up
in Tannis in the delta way up in

444
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:21.119
the north, and that's I think
it's like a thousand kilometers if not,

445
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:24.239
I think it's a thousand kilometers from
as One the foot this granite foot,

446
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:28.760
and Petree found this as well.
This is it's about the same size as

447
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.920
the foot of the statue of Liberty. So you can draw a comparison statue.

448
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:36.239
It's huge. Yeah, you can't. My hand, my spread hand

449
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:42.719
doesn't fit. I mean it's the
toenail is bigger than my outspread hand.

450
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.360
And all that's left of it is
this foot, which was repurposed as a

451
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.360
block in the wall. But you
can clearly see it's a foot, and

452
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.440
there's some other pieces of it laying
around. And this was a single piece

453
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:57.079
granite statue that would have weighed easily
in excess of one thousand tons, that's

454
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:01.239
found at least a thousand kilometers from
the ry location for that stone. You

455
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:07.440
know, that's that's an insane logistical
achievement. It's and you've got evidence for

456
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:09.519
at least half a dozen of these
statues that I know of, between Karanak

457
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:14.360
and the Rameseum and up up in
the up in the delta, and I

458
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:20.239
think that's it's a hugely different level
of achievement to carving something out of a

459
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.760
sandstone hillside. We don't have to
move anything. You also raise an interesting

460
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:30.000
point when you started here, and
this is it's one that I often get

461
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:32.360
asked. It's like, because I
think some of these statues, particularly these

462
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:37.760
thousand plus ton granite statues, it's
beyond the logistical capabilities of a Bronze Age

463
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.239
culture. Certainly what we know about
the Donastic Egyptians, who didn't use pulleys

464
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:45.239
or capstans, they didn't use force
multipliers as far as we can tell from

465
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.079
everything that they drew on the walls, and they did describe how they moved

466
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:52.000
stuff around. You know, they
had dudes with ropes and maybe some wooden

467
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:57.559
levers and they drag stuff on sleds. I think this is unachievable. I

468
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:59.559
mean, you might be able to
move one hundred tons that way, but

469
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:04.599
you're not move a thousand. And
Some people would say, well, okay,

470
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.320
if you think the statues are so
old, how come they look like

471
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:12.440
dynastic Egyptians. I actually think it's
the other way around. I think it's

472
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.840
I think the dynastic Egyptians are connected
to this what you might call a builder

473
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:20.440
culture, and if they have inherited
these statues, can you imagine like like

474
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:25.800
a ninety foot tall, thousand ton
granite statue that's in that iconic pharonic Egyptian

475
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.880
style. I mean, these are
your gods. These are you would see

476
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.960
this and think it's a god,
and you would one hundred percent be modeling

477
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.119
your culture. And you were connected
to this culture just through through generations,

478
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:43.079
and you have some cultural memory of
it. This is the iconic look that

479
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.320
you are then seeking to emulate.
And it's if you ever go and look

480
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:49.639
as across a three thousand years of
Egyptian history, if you go look in

481
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.559
all the terms from Old Kingdom terms
to New Kingdom and Tolemaic era. Look

482
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:59.039
at how the pharaohs are depicted.
They're always showing them as being amongst the

483
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:02.039
gods. There was try to position
themselves as a god, as being given

484
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.199
gifts by the gods and being accepted
into godhood in the afterlife. And they

485
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.920
always that iconic look, that dress, that that it gets a bit more

486
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.039
elaborate in later periods, but it's
the same style. It's the same look.

487
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:21.239
And I kind of look at ancient
Egypt as potentially the world's most sophisticated

488
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:23.800
cargo cult. You know, have
you ever seen that gods must be crazy?

489
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.679
You know, they get the coke
bottle to that tribe in Africa and

490
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.360
it just causes all these problems and
they're emulating and whatever. I think,

491
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:34.880
I think there's a chance that that's
I think that's an explanation that is,

492
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:37.719
that does make a lot of sense
of some of these artifacts and sites and

493
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:44.559
that iconic look of ancient Egypt.
Will you make a good point where a

494
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:49.559
later periods trying to emulate a column, a granite column, and they do

495
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:55.119
it very poorly. The original granted
may have been spun on a lathe of

496
00:38:55.159 --> 00:39:01.039
some kind with technology and then the
Newerwan hand carbon. It's just nate and

497
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:05.039
de difference. You see the same
thing. You see that. You see

498
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:09.440
the concept of imitation across almost all
the categories of ancient Gypan artifacts. You

499
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:15.159
see it in vases, you see
it in boxes, statues, architecture like

500
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:20.480
columns. I mean, there's I
love taking people to the Egyptian Museum because

501
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:25.280
you'll see stuff that's pre dynastic.
You'll see like a beautiful, like obviously

502
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:30.800
precision formed like hard stone vase might
be granite might be you know, diar

503
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:34.559
ride or some other even harder stone, and then right next to it is

504
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.599
a pottery imitation of it that's hand
like, hand thrown, you know,

505
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:42.760
it's it's the pinched method. It's
not even made on a potter's wheel.

506
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.360
And then they paint it to look
like granite, you know they do,

507
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:47.840
and it's like, well these they
just say, well, these are found

508
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.880
in the same burial, so the
same person must have made them. And

509
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:54.880
it's just there's they're worlds apart technologically
speaking, it's it's insane. And you

510
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:59.480
see the same thing with boxes.
There's lots of like limestone and even granite

511
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:04.880
boxes that are very rough obviously hand
hammered, handmade, and they're just a

512
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.760
I think it's an imitation of some
of these other boxes that they have.

513
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.880
And the same thing applies to statues. You can see the handmade statues.

514
00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.280
You can see the result of the
hand tools, the handwork, the tools

515
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.480
and technology and techniques that we know
the ancient Egyptians had because we found the

516
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.920
tools. They drew on the walls, They drew the scenes on the walls

517
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:28.760
of how they did stuff, and
there's a whole category of artifacts that match

518
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:32.360
that capability and tool set. Then
you have this I call it the tail

519
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:37.239
of two industries. There's one industry
that matches what we know about them and

520
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:42.039
all the evidence we've collected about Dynastic
Egypt and their tools and techniques, and

521
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.719
then there's this other category of stuff
like the hardstone vases, the precision card

522
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.719
boxes, the giant statues, the
columns, things like that that really don't

523
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.559
match it. And there's just there's
simply no evidence that the Dynastic Egyptians had

524
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.159
the capability to do any of this
stuff, which is odd to me,

525
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.400
because they were very you can find
scenes on the walls they show you how

526
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:02.559
they worked on stone how they worked
in wood. We found the tools that

527
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:07.840
they used, and you just simply
can't use those things to explain this other

528
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:15.760
class of artifact. We're going to
take a short commercial break to allow our

529
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.960
sponsors to identify themselves, and we
will be right back with our guest today,

530
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:27.679
Ben van Kirkwick, coming to us
from northern California and his discoveries of

531
00:41:27.760 --> 00:42:13.599
ancient Egypt. Will be right back. My guest today is Ben van Kirkwick,

532
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:19.400
who is a field of research investigator
who has spent a considerable amount of

533
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:24.760
time in Egypt, in Peru,
in Mexico, and a number of other

534
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:31.679
locations where there is evidence for not
only very very old civilizations, but forgotten

535
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:44.840
civilizations. Have you been to Memphis
and seeing the Outdoor Museum. Yes,

536
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:52.199
I saw that the Ramsey to sculpture
on his back for the first time last

537
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:57.599
year and it's impressive, very impressive. Yeah, that's a great statue,

538
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.880
like one hundred and fifty tons thereabouts. I think, well, I wonder

539
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:08.199
what the original block was was,
because that thing looks like it's early dynastic

540
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:14.280
because it's just beautifully carved. And
then it was pointed out to us that

541
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:20.760
there's more recent cartouches placed on the
shoulder, which are hack jobs. Yep,

542
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:24.000
uh, what do you say about
that? That's one hundred percent agree,

543
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:29.880
it's it's it's painfully at times obvious
that a lot of these statues have

544
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:35.840
essentially been vandalized in in in the
later later years in the New Kingdom,

545
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:38.079
used typically by Ramseys. That's the
that's the one cartoons. She you get

546
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:43.280
very good at recognizing his name because
it's everywhere. But yeah, they it's

547
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:47.400
if you look at and and this
also actually applies to the other even biggest

548
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:51.840
statues, the ones that are probably
ten times that size, where the stone

549
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:55.039
works perfect like it's you know it
is. It is a great example of

550
00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:59.519
a of a giant hand and a
thumb that's at Karnak and it's made from

551
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.760
composite quartzite, which is even a
harder stone than grantit it's got flint in

552
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:06.679
it. It's insane, it's it's
like a nightmare for stone carvers. But

553
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.079
if you look at this thumb that's
sticking out like he's it's holding it.

554
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:13.320
It's the same thing as that statue
at Memphis where it's holding this scroll or

555
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.599
something in the hand right, it's
like, and they often put a cartouche

556
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:20.280
on the top of that little scroll
or whatever it is that's that's in the

557
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:23.360
hand, and you can you can
look at the details of the thumbnail and

558
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:29.519
these fine details you see the cuticle, you know, carved and polished,

559
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:31.519
beautiful stone work. And then you
look at this cartoushe and you can literally

560
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:36.119
see these hammer and chisel marks from
where they just packed this thing in there.

561
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:37.880
I mean, some people have said
to me like, oh, well,

562
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:42.079
you know, there's a different guy
doing the cartoushes, you know,

563
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.559
the scribes doing it. I'm like, that's nonsense. That if you can

564
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:50.599
be great at calligraphy, try and
do calligraphy in stone. It's an entirely

565
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.400
different skill set. So even if
you probably had scribes that came and they

566
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:57.159
drew the cartoosh, they pould have
painted it in red oak, paine or

567
00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:00.760
something. But then it's the stone
carver's job to come along and carve it.

568
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:05.480
And presumably if the statues made at
the same time the cartouoshes has done,

569
00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:07.679
then this stone carve is going to
be of the same school. He's

570
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:09.719
going to have the same tools,
he's going to have the same technology.

571
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:13.239
Is the guy who made the statue. But that's not what we see.

572
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.000
We see this there's a massive difference
in the carving of the riding in the

573
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:22.599
cartouches, obviously handmade, done with
hammers and chisels, flint chisels or whatever,

574
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.800
and there's a you know, they're
not polished, they're not they're not

575
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.039
you don't see these fine details.
Obviously they whoever made the statues could polish

576
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:35.679
very uneven and fine pieces of stone. You see it all over these statues,

577
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:38.360
from large to small, but you
never see that in these cartouoshes.

578
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:44.440
And to me, that's a very
strong indication that there's a massive technological gap

579
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:50.599
between whoever was riding on them and
whoever made the statue. And it I

580
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:52.519
think that the statues were there first, and it's not like it had The

581
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:57.119
statues had to be there first for
then someone to come along and write on

582
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:00.280
them later. And I suspect there
was a huge time gap between those two

583
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:07.000
things occurring. Christin highlights this in
his first book that it's the precision that

584
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:12.199
is so telling. Yeah, it's
just off the charts precision when you are

585
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:16.159
dealing with statuary. And you brought
up a good example when you go to

586
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:22.920
Karnak, some of those big fifty
eighty ton seated statues, they're machined in

587
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.079
some manner that we just don't understand. We don't know because and what he

588
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:31.039
uses as the mirror effect. You
look at one side, you flip that

589
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:36.599
over, it's and it's the exact
same eyes, nose, mouth, chin.

590
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.920
Yeah. The symmetry, symmetry is
an aspect of precision. Yeah,

591
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:44.079
and yeah, he uses a reverse
transparency overlay, which is, yeah,

592
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.360
you take a photo, make it
fifty percent transparent, copy it, take

593
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:51.559
one copy, flip it horizontally,
then overlay them and you can you can

594
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:57.920
see the differences. It's a wonderful
technique for showing symmetry because it is perfect.

595
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.000
When you look at that face from
that front on angle, it's like

596
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:04.199
it lines up perfectly. And you
know, symmetry is not not it's not

597
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:07.559
a human feature. It's like everyone's
nostrils and eyeballs are a bit different.

598
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:12.760
This isn't like a feature of humans. And it's also not something that gets

599
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:16.199
Symmetry is not a thing that happens
in sculpture either, like even I've seen

600
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:22.880
Michelangelo, Oh sorry, Michelangelo's David. You know, in where is it

601
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:27.480
up in Florence and you know you
don't. It's amazing statue and it's very

602
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.719
lifelike, but it's not symmetrical.
And symmetrical is an aspect of precision,

603
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:37.079
which to my mind also speaks to
design. Like it probably the most efficient

604
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.199
way to maybe design this thing was
to design half of it and then mirror

605
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:44.480
image it on the other side,
and then now you've got you know,

606
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:49.239
you can then put that through whatever
manufacturing process created it. And symmetry to

607
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.679
that detail is really not achievable by
hand, particularly when you're talking about a

608
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:55.400
three dimensional object. You know,
it's not just symmetrical just front on,

609
00:47:55.519 --> 00:48:00.960
it's symmetrical from left to right like
around it as well. A very complex

610
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:06.039
shapes and artifacts. And I would
hope that we can apply a similar technique

611
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.960
that we've that has started to be
applied to artifacts like the vases, where

612
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:15.840
you can scan them with modern technology
like structured light scanning, where you can

613
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:21.880
create an extremely detailed and high resolution
model of it and then analyze this these

614
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:25.360
these artifacts in you know, g
D and T software where and start to

615
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:30.719
really drill down on just how precise
is this Because we've started to do that

616
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:35.360
with these vases, and the numbers
that are coming back are just remarkable.

617
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:39.559
I mean, they're they're I think
it should be a huge, a huge

618
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:45.039
paradigm shifting event really, because there's
just simply no way you can reach these

619
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:50.199
levels of precision that we've we've demonstrated
exists in a lot of artifacts like the

620
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:53.480
vases with any hand method, certainly
not with the very primitive methods that they

621
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:58.360
say we used in the Old Kingdom
or even the pre Dynastic times, which

622
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:01.679
is literally dudes banging on them with
sticks and rocks and sand like. That's

623
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:07.039
no spinning tools, no nothing,
it's it's just nonsense to suggest that that's

624
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:10.960
how some of these artifacts were made. But that's literally what people insist happened.

625
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.559
Let's let's get into that. You
were part of a team that what

626
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:21.400
did you call it, the Stoneware
analysis or something like they scan Yeah,

627
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:27.599
bay scan. Yeah. And before
we started we mentioned our mutual friend Adam

628
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:34.840
Young, who introduced me to these
was a vice. They don't know the

629
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:38.360
date, they know it's ancient.
They I believe he found it in Socara

630
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:43.519
or it was listed at being found
in Sacara. Yeah, it's not his

631
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:46.440
vase. I mean it's pre dynastic, it's and then the reason you would

632
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:52.440
classify it as pre dynastic is is
it matches very very closely in form and

633
00:49:52.760 --> 00:50:00.360
stone type to other artifacts that were
found in pre dynastic burials. It's one

634
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.039
of the it's it is. One
of the questions that's come back on the

635
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:07.280
vay scan project is is, well, what's the provenance of these vases?

636
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:10.079
How do we know their ancient Egyptian
or what how do we know their age?

637
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:15.239
And when you're dealing with artifacts that
come from you know, the antiquities

638
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:20.400
market, that's it's it gets a
little murky at times because the more providence

639
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.119
that the more expensive it is.
And also if it's too much providence,

640
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:28.079
then you know, museums and countries
might even be like asking for them back.

641
00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:30.920
And a lot of this stuff is
I'm sure there's a lot of stuff

642
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:35.920
that's that hasn't necessarily come out of
Egypt in the proper fashion, I'll say,

643
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:37.880
but there's tons of stuff that has
like these these sort of artifacts have

644
00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:43.360
been given as gifts to ambassadors and
diplomats and governors and people that have been

645
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:49.079
there, and and lots of these
you know Victorian era and European Egyptologists have

646
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.760
taken that stuff from Egypt. And
I mean I've seen them on Southerby's too.

647
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.239
Oh yeah, they come up all
they come up on auction. They

648
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:58.360
are in a lot of there's a
lot of the there's like probably up to

649
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:00.960
one hundred thousand of these things floating
around, I mean, or at least

650
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:04.800
parts of it. There was forty
to fifty thousand of them were found in

651
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.800
one location beneath the step pyramid at
Sakara, but they've been found in Gizer

652
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:12.480
and all sorts of other places as
well. And the crazy thing about the

653
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:16.360
vases is they do stretch back in
time to like truly pre dynastic times.

654
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:21.519
Like the oldest site that I've seen, there's a fantastic display in the Nubian

655
00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:24.840
Museum at Aswan that looks at a
lot of these predynastic sites going back fifteen

656
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:30.280
sixteen thousand years, and they've they've
you can see from the photographs there are

657
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:37.239
stone vases on these sites and some
of these these these places, these vases

658
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:42.920
are attributed to sites that have all
carbon dated is going back in that time.

659
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:46.840
Interesting thing about the vases though,
is that they essentially disappear from the

660
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:52.159
dynastic records. So you have the
vast majority of the found were found underneath

661
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:54.159
the Step Pyramid, which is the
third dynasty of the Old Kingdom. Really

662
00:51:54.400 --> 00:52:00.440
like sixty thousand that were found.
Yeah, number forty to fifty thousand beneath

663
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:02.199
the Step Pyramid, and that's the
doge You're pyramid, right, Josi,

664
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:07.039
Yeah, Josea. And that do
we know because I saw a video of

665
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.360
you. Is it like in the
third layer underneath the second layer or something.

666
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:15.960
Yeah, it's like there's like two
or three miles of tunnels beneath that

667
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.280
thing. It's actually amazing. I
go down there now. They opened it

668
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:22.559
up for special permission. So I
love to take people down there because it's

669
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:27.039
an adventure going down there. First
of all, what's down there is super

670
00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:30.920
interesting. There's a huge shaft beneath
that pyram's like forty five feet wide and

671
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:36.119
ninety hundred feet tall, and there's
this massive thirty two piece granite box that's

672
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:38.079
in there. And then below that
you sort of shoot off in the corners

673
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:44.719
and there's all these catacombs and chambers
and three or four levels at least of

674
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:47.800
chambers and tunnels beneath that. In
fact, we don't know where it goes

675
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:51.400
or how deep it goes. I've
been down to the deepest layer, which

676
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:53.960
they typically don't allow, even on
special permissions. They don't really want people

677
00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:58.079
going down there. But you open
this trap door that's got a padlock on

678
00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:00.679
it, you go down another twenty
foot ladder, and there's even there's big

679
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.840
chambers down there, and then there's
there's these passages that go off into the

680
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:08.519
ground that they've not excavated yet.
It probably keeps going. But yeah,

681
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:15.199
in those galleries and in those chambers, who was that Jean Feliployer found between

682
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:19.440
forty and fifty thousand of these hardstone
vases. And this is the archaeological This

683
00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:23.480
is not controversial at all. This
is this is what you know he reported

684
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:29.840
and what they say in the Sacara
Museum even and so there's we know there's

685
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:34.519
a lot of these exist, and
you know Petrie found them at Geezer as

686
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.760
well, which he kind of attributes
to the fourth dynasty. But after that

687
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.519
period, after that time, they
they sort of disappear. It's funny that

688
00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:46.840
the vase industry in Egypt shifts to
this alabaster industry and you can see these

689
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:52.199
beautiful alabastera vases this much softer stone. Right, it's white calcite. It's

690
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:55.280
like a three three and a half
on the most scale of hardness versus you

691
00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:59.800
know, these hardstone vessels, which
is like six seven. Even there's even

692
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:02.440
a a corundum vase in the museum
that's a nine on the most skeats.

693
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:07.400
It's amazing, but they disappear,
and that this is a real telling thing

694
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.880
to me. It's you know,
after that, there's this industry of alabasta

695
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:15.440
vass which do not reflect the same
levels of precision. They're obviously handmade,

696
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:19.719
they do reach a high level of
craftsmanship. They're beautiful pieces. But that's

697
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.719
that's the vase industry after that.
And I think that actually gets kind of

698
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:27.320
explained in the in the Imhotep Museum
at Sakara, they say, well,

699
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.920
there's a there was a vase industry
before im Hotep or Imhotep was Jose's architect.

700
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.480
That's the famous guy is not the
bad guy in the mummy movies,

701
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:37.719
is actually a venerated figure in ancient
Egypt. They were still writing about him

702
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:42.599
in the New Kingdom. He's a
genius and a polymath. But I think

703
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.119
what happened is he came up with
a method to try and best imitate these

704
00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:50.079
hardstone vases as best he could.
And there's a scene on a wall,

705
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.519
it's literally in the museum, and
it shows them working on what I think

706
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:58.440
we're ALABASTERA vass with these bent sticks
with weights on them and flint tips and

707
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.400
they're turning them. And then there's
a the pictures the guy's rubbing on them

708
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:05.280
with rocks and polishing them. And
you can look at the ALABASTERA vases and

709
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:08.000
see exactly how they were made that
way. And in fact, if you

710
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:12.760
go to one of the Alabasta factories
over on the West Bank, I seen

711
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:16.039
them. They're still they're doing it. They do it exactly the same way,

712
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:21.119
the handmade stuff. They just use
steel tools today, and it's it's

713
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:23.599
it's I think. So what I
think we're looking at is you had these

714
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:29.159
vastly ancient objects. Who knows how
old they are? The vases they're small

715
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:31.280
enough that and you know, if
you're in if you're a pre dynastic culture

716
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:36.880
or primitive culture and you're making pottery
vases or vessels, and you find one

717
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:39.159
of these hardstone vessels. You're immediately
going to recognize that it's something special,

718
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:43.039
like it's made from granite. You're
like, holy crap, how do they

719
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:49.039
do? This becomes precious. You
then collect them and you keep them and

720
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:52.320
you bury them with you because it's
your precious artifacts. And then that that

721
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:55.239
builds up to eventually jose that comes
along, he's a king in the third

722
00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:00.199
dynasty. He sends his boys out
to to basically raid all the tomb they

723
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:02.280
can find, collect as many vases
as they can, bury them with him

724
00:56:02.679 --> 00:56:07.320
beneath the step pyramid, like which
is what seems to have happened, and

725
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.840
they and even in that museum,
this is I love this because they acknowledge

726
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:15.199
there that a lot of these artifacts
are inherited heirlooms, because on some of

727
00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:22.960
these vases there are very crudely scratched
inscriptions that match the names of First and

728
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.360
second dynasty rulers, So they know
that some of these vases came out of

729
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:31.840
the tombs of first and second first
and second dynasty rulers that Joseph then had

730
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:37.000
inherited them. But after that,
I think they basically collected as many as

731
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:39.039
they could, and they pretty much
disappear from the record, which tells you

732
00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:45.760
that that technology disappears. But those
vases reflect the same technology that we see

733
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.480
on these other artifacts, like the
statues, the big stuff, the stuff

734
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:52.079
that can't be buried with a guy. So it's like, that's why they

735
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:55.960
think the vases are so important,
because they tell you a story of there

736
00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:00.440
was a technology that existed long ago, and the Nastic Egyptians obviously didn't have

737
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:04.920
it, because otherwise they would have
kept making these vases and using that technology.

738
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:07.800
But it's the same technology we see
in all these other precision artifacts that

739
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:12.559
are much larger. You can't move
them, you can't be buried with them.

740
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:15.400
They stay on these sites. The
sites grow up over time, they

741
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:19.280
get renovated, reused, and then
this stuff gets rebadged and a guy writes

742
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:22.639
his name on it, and today
we interpret that as like, well,

743
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:25.360
he must have built it. I
mean, it's the same thing. Imagine

744
00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:30.639
imagine Adam Young touchwood. You know, when Adam Young passes away, he

745
00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:35.360
wants to be buried in his mausoleum
with his granite vase. Our civilization ends.

746
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:38.280
Yeah, five thousand years later,
the archaeologists of the future dig up

747
00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:43.280
Adam's mausoleum and they see his name
on it, and they see this vase

748
00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:45.679
and go, Adam Young must have
had this vase made. I mean,

749
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:49.920
it's yeah, it's we're doing the
exact same thing when we say that about

750
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.159
ancient Egypt. We have no we
don't know when these things were made.

751
00:57:52.760 --> 00:58:00.719
So talk a bit about the technology
you're using to analyze these these vases and

752
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:04.039
plates. I think it's just a
viase, is what you're doing. But

753
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:08.960
I heard a rumor a few months
ago that now the feeling is from the

754
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:15.199
group, and that's part of your
area, is that they weren't necessarily used

755
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:21.559
as jars. They may have had
another more advanced use. YEP, so

756
00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:25.719
I do. Yeah, So I'll
hit that bit first. I do think

757
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:29.880
these were functional. I think the
boxes were functional. I think a lot

758
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:34.480
of the stuff we're looking at and
Engineergypt was functional. It had a purpose.

759
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:36.440
We just don't know what it is. We might not have. We

760
00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:39.199
lack the context to view it correctly
at this point, which is one of

761
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:43.159
the reasons I think we should be
open minded about approaching it. They were

762
00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:46.559
certainly used as vases by the dynastic
Egyptians. I mean some of these aren't

763
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:50.880
vases like they literally you can't.
You have to stand them upside down.

764
00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:52.920
If you know, they have to
come to a pointed tip. Some of

765
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:55.679
them that you know, like a
narrow pointed tip that they won't you have

766
00:58:55.719 --> 00:59:00.920
to put them upside down. But
but what happened, and I really have

767
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:06.159
to also credit Adam Young again for
being the driving force behind this to make

768
00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:08.840
He's been wanting to do this for
years and when he he got a hold

769
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:14.039
of you know, Alex and Nick
who were metrologists who work in the aerospace

770
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:17.519
industry. If you have the Alex
Dunn is Alex dun Chris Dun's son and

771
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:21.920
Nix Sierra, I don't know this
other case engineer at the area of work

772
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:25.360
work. Yeah, it works with
with Alex okay, and so they're metrologists,

773
00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:30.360
I mean literally their job is to
analyze precision and and and use the

774
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:35.719
techniques that we're using to to basically
analyze these vases. So they scanned that

775
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:37.599
first phase. They scanned it with
a process called structured light scanning, which

776
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:43.679
is like a laser scanning process that
basically maps the artifact down to within a

777
00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:46.320
thousands of an inch or a little
little under that and it does that by

778
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:50.400
you know, just basically creating a
point cloud of you know, millions and

779
00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:52.920
millions of points and creates this artifact
that then you can create, you know,

780
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:57.800
an object in a in software in
and then you can start to analyze

781
00:59:57.800 --> 01:00:02.239
it with what's GD and T tools
are geometric distancing and tolancing tools. These

782
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:07.360
are industry standard tools and a technique
that's used to basically look at you know,

783
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:12.199
precision parts for jet engines and rocket
engines. And we literally use this

784
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:15.199
to in order for us to fly
across the country in planes like it's the

785
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:19.079
same and that the crazy thing that
came out of this is that we're seeing

786
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:23.199
precision on the same level as parts
that we put into jet engines. It's

787
01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:28.960
it's stuff that where you see you
see tolerances and and levels like a single

788
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.519
thousandth of an inch, like you
know, parts being perpendicular or with roundness,

789
01:00:32.559 --> 01:00:39.719
concentricity. Just just absolutely amazing results
coming back from it that are really

790
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:45.320
only achievable today on some of our
very best kind of machinery like lathes and

791
01:00:45.639 --> 01:00:47.719
see and see mills and things like
that. Certainly, no one's ever demonstrated

792
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:55.440
that you can hit these sort of
tolerances on complex oblate objects like these by

793
01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:59.880
hand. It's it's not no one. And now all the machinists and people

794
01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:04.159
that see there's these results, and
people that understand machining and manufacturing, they

795
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:07.679
understand this immediately. So one of
my challenges has been trying to explain this

796
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:13.239
to every to people that aren't in
those fields, and explain what it means.

797
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:16.119
But it's been truly remarkable results came
out of this first phase. And

798
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:22.159
then we've through guys like Matt Bell
and his acquisitions of vases, We've we've

799
01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:27.639
had access to many more vases he's
now he's got a huge collection now and

800
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:31.119
we've seen we've seen vases of similar
precision and even better like there's there's I

801
01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:37.960
think he has at this point one
where I think the average the average deviation

802
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:42.480
across all of the measurements that they've
taken on that vases between one and two

803
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:45.239
thousands of an inch, which is
remarkable. I think your average on that

804
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:50.239
on that original vase from Adam might
be between five and six or seven thousands.

805
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:52.199
Some measurements are very low, some
are a little higher, but this

806
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:58.400
we see some we've seen some remarkable
artifacts. And the really cool thing about

807
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.760
this is that you know, there's
garnded some attention, and there's been some

808
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:07.679
interest from universities in Egypt who have
engineers and egyptologists on stuff, and they

809
01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:13.639
have access to museums. They're already
doing photogrammetry and light out scanning of artifacts

810
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:15.960
for like virtual reality, so you
can look at an object on the web

811
01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:21.800
or whatever. And they're interested in
this process and this technique, and I'm

812
01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:25.360
very hopeful that they'll be able to
get into some museums and start to expand

813
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:30.000
that data set looking at artifacts that
are in museums. Similar story with the

814
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:35.039
Petrie Museum. I'm hopeful to get
into the Flinder's Petrie Museum that's on the

815
01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:38.920
University College of London. I saw
it yet two years ago. It's got

816
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:43.960
a few really good pieces. But
hey, my point on this precision,

817
01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:52.639
ben is are we looking at houseware
or are these parts to a machine?

818
01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:57.760
Yeah? I don't think they're houseware. I don't think these are just made

819
01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:04.519
to be vases. I don't think
you need so there's a relationship between precision

820
01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:10.079
and function. You don't develop precision
unless you're chasing function. However, once

821
01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:15.760
you have a manufacturing system that delivers
precision, then that's kind of what you

822
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:19.960
get. It's the reason why our
toasters are so well made today, our

823
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.320
car panels fit so much better together
than they did in the nineteen sixties.

824
01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:28.320
Our manufacturing systems just deliver precision.
But the reason that precision was developed was

825
01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:32.440
to chase a particular function. I
think these vases were something else that potentially

826
01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:37.639
parts of larger machines. I think
one of the concept that they might have

827
01:03:37.639 --> 01:03:40.719
been resonators is an interesting one,
and actually I know there's some testing underway

828
01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:47.480
to sort of test resonance in these
vases. My intuition about them is that

829
01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:51.719
they're functional. I look at them, a lot of them with lug handles.

830
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:53.199
I mean, I look at those
things that they seem to represent like

831
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:55.880
a camlock to me, so you
can imagine putting that thing in and turning

832
01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:00.320
it and it locks in. A
lot of them really wouldn't perform well as

833
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:06.559
as vases. I mean the vases. They you know, they span in

834
01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:11.199
scale from the size of my thumbnail
up to vases. And yeah, that's

835
01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:17.840
the other thing. They're tiny,
functional for well, maybe for small flowers,

836
01:04:17.920 --> 01:04:21.239
but I don't know. Well,
they say they're for perfumes and oils,

837
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:25.039
right, this is what they Okay, standard models, you know,

838
01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:27.920
perfumes and oils, which they say, well, well those were more valuable

839
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:30.400
than the vases themselves, which I
didn't. I think is nonsense. Well,

840
01:04:30.400 --> 01:04:34.599
did you guys find a residue of
anything like that? No, I've

841
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:38.719
not. I've not heard of anything
like that. Look, I think the

842
01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:43.719
Dynastic Egyptians when they had them,
they probably used them that way. They

843
01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:45.159
may well have used them as vases. You can see even some of them

844
01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:49.719
have. Yeah, I actually think
it's it's sort of complex, but I

845
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:54.840
think that the there's lots of most, in fact, the majority of vases

846
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:59.360
with lug handles that stick out on
the sides. Most of them they're not

847
01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:02.119
effect of handles. You couldn't even
the angles on them wouldn't make them effective

848
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:06.840
for holding up. And then most
of them, there's certainly a lot of

849
01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:10.840
them that have holes through the lug
handles. But these holes are very imprecise.

850
01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:14.599
They don't match up, they're offset, you know, they're like they've

851
01:05:14.599 --> 01:05:17.880
been drilled from either end. And
I think that was probably done by the

852
01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:23.239
Dynastic Egyptians. They ground these holes
through them so they could put metal in

853
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:26.840
there. And you even have a
couple of vases with metal handles that are

854
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:30.440
stuck through there. So I just
I think this is a reuse and a

855
01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:33.880
repurposing of them that happened later.
My intuition about the vases is that they

856
01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:39.360
were were probably functional, either parts
of a larger machine or they had some

857
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:43.239
function. I don't know what that
is. That's I think we need to

858
01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:45.719
approach it with an open mind and
maybe we'll learn more about it in the

859
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:49.639
future. But it kind of fits
that category of these boxes the same thing.

860
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:54.079
To me, it's like the serapeum
and this phenomena of you know,

861
01:05:54.440 --> 01:05:59.000
precision stone boxes that are either in
pyramids or they're under the ground that they

862
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:03.079
went to just readible lengths to make
as as massive and as precise as they

863
01:06:03.079 --> 01:06:08.880
are. I don't think that was
done simply to just bury a ball in

864
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:13.320
or anything like that. They went
I mean, the boxes are crazy,

865
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:17.360
like they they wanted them to be
solid, Like the lengths they went to

866
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:23.599
in the therapeum to scoop out cracks
and to just maintain solidity of those boxes

867
01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:26.440
is astonishing. And if you just
you're talking about a single use box.

868
01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:29.760
You stick a bull carcascent and you
put the lid on it. Who cares

869
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:33.119
if it's got a crack in the
surface. But but but man, the

870
01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:36.360
length they went to to scoop out
cracks and then to polish those surfaces.

871
01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:42.519
It's it's astronomical amount of work there
is. I think a lot of this

872
01:06:42.519 --> 01:06:48.239
stuff is functional. There's a group
of alternative academics, I guess you could

873
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:54.480
call them, who are saying that
there was a period in Egyptian history where

874
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.239
there was high art and I can't
remember what the name was, but it's

875
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:01.199
like, I don't want to name
names, but it's like they're they're attributing

876
01:07:01.239 --> 01:07:11.400
these precision boxes and sculptural reliefs and
things like that to this period of time,

877
01:07:11.440 --> 01:07:16.119
and it's like you can't They're so
desperate to keep it on the ground

878
01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:21.639
and say, hey, no,
there's no way there was an unknown civilization

879
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:26.480
you're going, you know. And
the funny thing about it is, and

880
01:07:26.559 --> 01:07:29.559
I'm glad that I've never met you, but this is the first time.

881
01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:31.920
I'm glad. You're not very often
going, well, this is ancient aliens.

882
01:07:32.360 --> 01:07:35.280
No, No, you know,
because that really drives me nuts.

883
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:41.199
Whatever you can, I can't explain
this agian alien. Well that trust me.

884
01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:43.519
People levy that that one at me
all the time. I'm sure it

885
01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:45.039
happens to you too. But yeah, it's like, yeah, it's that's

886
01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:48.159
the trope, right, that's the
standard responses. Well, if you don't

887
01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:50.159
think they did it, you must
think aliens did it. And I'm like,

888
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:54.679
no, You look at the span
of human history like this is one

889
01:07:54.679 --> 01:07:59.239
of the other factors that really should
be affecting the story of history is we

890
01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:01.559
are while than we thought we were, like as a species, we've been

891
01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:05.360
around and when we are the last
humans left, there were other types of

892
01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:10.599
humans here too that also lived for
millions of years longer than we did.

893
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:15.920
So and you know Neanderthals, for
example, bigger brains than us. I

894
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:18.000
thought for the longest time they couldn't
talk, but the latest research shows that

895
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:23.079
no, no, they could.
They have the vocal cord structure to communicate,

896
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:26.920
which is a basis for civilization,
and you know, lovely singing voices

897
01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:32.399
by all accounts, and you know
it's we used to think we were fifty

898
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:35.239
thousand years old, then we went
to one hundred and ninety five thousand years

899
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:38.760
old, and they found a jawbone
in Morocco that pushed it out to three

900
01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:42.840
hundred thousand years old. Now,
the latest studies into you know, our

901
01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:46.239
split with a common ancestor and you
know, teeth morphology rates puts the date

902
01:08:46.279 --> 01:08:50.640
at like eight to nine hundred thousand
years old. So this idea that civilization

903
01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:55.720
only ever emerged in the last six
thousand years is patently ridiculous. At this

904
01:08:55.800 --> 01:08:59.560
point. It's you know, you're
talking a span of time that goes back

905
01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:02.720
to you know, the other side
of the last glacial maximum into more.

906
01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:06.239
I mean, not that the last
glacial maximum was a problem everywhere. It

907
01:09:06.279 --> 01:09:10.560
was just it was literally like there
were still temperate areas of the world.

908
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:15.279
Giza would have been fine, that
whole area would have been completely livable,

909
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:18.600
but we existed for hundreds of thousands
of years ago. And there's the other

910
01:09:18.760 --> 01:09:23.279
huge part of this is cataclysm,
right, the younger, driest cataclysm.

911
01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:30.880
This we know there was just an
absolute civilization ending event that occurred only thirteen

912
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:32.920
thousand years ago. It changed the
surface of the earth, that rose sea

913
01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:40.039
levels four hundred feet, completely basically
destroyed the world. And we've built our

914
01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:44.359
world on the remains of the old
world, and this should be all these

915
01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:47.520
things should be factoring into this story
of history, but they're generally ignored.

916
01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:50.520
And this is all new evidence that's
turned up in the last twenty years,

917
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:56.600
and I hope that someday soon it'll
have a significant effect on that story of

918
01:09:56.640 --> 01:10:00.039
history. But yeah, at some
point that it's going to become an I

919
01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:02.560
have a whelming amount of evidence and
we just need to re examine this idea

920
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:08.039
that where the only advanced civilization to
have ever existed. I guess is Ben

921
01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:14.800
van Kirkwick. He is from Uncharted
X And as we close, Chris Dunn,

922
01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:19.159
in his most recent book, believes
that the people who built the pyramid

923
01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:26.880
this is the Kufu Pyramid and Serpieme
and some of the anomalies were Earth based

924
01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:35.359
scientists, and he defines that as
using Earth's natural geomagnetic fields. You know

925
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:42.880
light sound when Earth, you know
birth Earth based compositions. What do you

926
01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:46.439
say, you say, that's close
or it looks like whoever were? These

927
01:10:46.479 --> 01:10:54.720
people were not into nuclear energy?
Obviously we would see their reactors, but

928
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:59.479
they were what to you, what
do you say, well, how did

929
01:10:59.479 --> 01:11:03.800
they evolve? Well? I think
that earth based scientist is a very good

930
01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:08.600
one. It's very apt they whoever
did this work, I mean, they

931
01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:14.840
certainly seemed capable of working in this
material in a much easier fashion than we

932
01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:17.479
would find it today. It could
we build the Great Pyramid again, Yes,

933
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:23.560
I think we could, but it
would be so astronomically expensive that nobody's

934
01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:28.119
got the stomach or the budget to
do it. They were. And if

935
01:11:28.119 --> 01:11:30.479
you're going to build in its like
I do like the idea, if you

936
01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:35.960
actually extend technology out far enough,
it's like, let's project our technology today

937
01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:39.720
a little bit like and go,
all right, so we make spaceships today,

938
01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:44.159
and we're concerned we use lightweight composite
materials, titanium and all these other

939
01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:46.520
advanced alloys because we need them to
be light and strong because we've got to

940
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:51.399
overcome gravity and get out of the
gravity. Well, but if you extend

941
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:55.920
technology far enough and you say,
well, eventually, you know, you

942
01:11:56.000 --> 01:12:00.079
gain control over those fundamental forces of
nature, gravity itself. What does a

943
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:03.079
spaceship start to look like if that, if those things are no longer a

944
01:12:03.079 --> 01:12:08.239
concern for you, Well, spaceships
might start to look like a small planet

945
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:12.119
or a moon something that has its
own gravity, so it contains its own

946
01:12:12.359 --> 01:12:15.600
atmosphere even like that's it's that's it's
just projecting science out there. And if

947
01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:18.359
so, if you if you don't, if you have no need to use

948
01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:24.720
advanced alloys or metals in some of
your construction projects. And the best material

949
01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:28.960
we have available on this planet least
is stone, granite, things like that,

950
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:32.000
they'd last forever. It's you can't, you know it's it's it's extremely

951
01:12:32.039 --> 01:12:36.279
sturdy and nothing lasts longer than it. Like it's it's literally you know that

952
01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:42.000
most of the hardiest, strongest material
you could build with, and and the

953
01:12:42.039 --> 01:12:45.760
evidence is right there that that's what
happened. So yeah, I suspect that

954
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:48.680
whoever did this stuff had the ability
to work in that material in a much

955
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:54.079
easier fashion than we find today.
And I think that's only only achievable through

956
01:12:54.079 --> 01:12:59.960
the use of probably advanced sciences and
uh and technology that we don't yet understand.

957
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:05.800
And I always find it a little
bit arrogant potentially to suggest that everything

958
01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:10.600
from the past it has to be
a subset of what we know. We

959
01:13:10.680 --> 01:13:14.359
tend to look at the past as
this subset of everything that we know.

960
01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:16.359
But all you have to do is
look at the last fifty years to know

961
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:19.520
that, Okay, technology is moving
forward. We're going to know more about

962
01:13:19.880 --> 01:13:24.479
fundamental sciences and technology in ten years
and one hundred years and a thousand years

963
01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:28.079
than we do now. And from
that you can say that there are totally

964
01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:31.640
there are whole realms of science and
technology that we have no clue about.

965
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:36.800
Like we're only just starting to explore
some of these realms now, resonance and

966
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:42.159
frequency and vibrations and things like this. So what if they had the ability

967
01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:45.800
to control some of those things.
I think it's a case of looking at

968
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:48.920
it with an open mind. I
really do believe that there was some science

969
01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:53.600
and technology involved in what we're looking
at. I think a lot of the

970
01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:58.840
stuff we're looking at was functional.
It's we just lack the context to understand

971
01:13:58.880 --> 01:14:02.720
it. It's a similar idea to
say, take an iPhone back in time.

972
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:05.680
It's one hundred years ago or a
thousand years ago. I mean that

973
01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:09.840
it's just going to look like a
shiny piece of glass to those people.

974
01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:13.520
But you and I know what a
touchscreen is, or a cell phone,

975
01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:16.000
camera and microphone, the Internet,
all these Wi Fi signals, So we

976
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:19.720
have the context to look at it
and understand its capabilities. But without that

977
01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:21.960
context, it just looks like a
shiny piece of glass or a piece of

978
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:27.039
rock. Maybe we're in a similar
situation when we're looking at some of these

979
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:31.000
complex stone artifacts and these weird alignments
of structures that we see at places like

980
01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:35.399
Abusir and whatnot. And yeah,
I applaud Chris. I love his new

981
01:14:35.399 --> 01:14:40.760
book, The Tesla Connection as well, because it explores the possibility that the

982
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:44.960
pyramid might be an electron harvester,
and that's all based on new science that's

983
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:48.239
come out of NASA in the last
couple of years, some incredible new work.

984
01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:53.760
It's highly recommended read for anyone out
there looking for something to blow your

985
01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:57.600
mind. But yeah, I think
we just need to approach this with an

986
01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:01.159
open mind. If we can do
that and we can use our technology to

987
01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:05.920
its limits to investigate this sort of
stuff, we might actually end up learning

988
01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:13.239
something. I'm curious. We're about
ready to close here, but I've been

989
01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:18.119
to Egypt enough times to realize that
there is some form of a cover up

990
01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:24.640
going on by the officials. And
I say that not as a conspiracy theorist,

991
01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:28.640
because I don't care about that,
but I've had people on the show,

992
01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:30.720
and in fact, we have an
engineer coming on in a couple of

993
01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:35.640
weeks who has written a very important
white paper on the ground penetrating radar that

994
01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:42.960
he has done on the Giza Plateau. It is an underground lethra of canals,

995
01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:48.560
tunnels and rooms, and people like
Zahi Owas have known about it.

996
01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:53.119
They don't talk about it. It's
the evidence is everywhere, and we see

997
01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:59.680
this all through Egypt. It's like, why aren't we getting the details?

998
01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:04.479
Why are we being pushed back into
the dark age. Yeah, I don't

999
01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:08.920
know why. I mean, I
suspect it's a similar story to what we

1000
01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:12.920
talked about before, where it's sort
of protecting positions of authority and whatnot.

1001
01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:15.800
There's certainly a lot that happens there
that we don't know anything about. I've

1002
01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:20.199
heard a lot of stories and rumors
about this too. I did an investigation

1003
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:24.119
into all of the works you talk
about grand penetrating radar. I mean,

1004
01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:26.960
there's been at at least two studies
that I know of, Robert Shock and

1005
01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:30.960
John Anthony West, and then later
during the shore expedition in the mid nineties

1006
01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:35.600
That'sahi was involved in at least two
of these are using grand penetrating radar as

1007
01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:40.680
well as other seismic techniques that mapped
out chambers and tunnels beneath the Sphinx.

1008
01:16:40.720 --> 01:16:44.199
I mean, one hundred percent it's
there, and I haven't heard about I'm

1009
01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:46.239
very interested. I'm going to definitely
tune into your next episode because I want

1010
01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:50.479
to hear about any further GPR studies
that have been done there. But yeah,

1011
01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:53.920
one hundred percent, there's been stuff
done. I mean there's a long

1012
01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:58.439
history of excavations and drilling at the
Sphinx. That's secret. It's been going

1013
01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:02.960
on since the seventies. This is
you know, it's a UAS and the

1014
01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:06.760
Edgar Casey Foundation. I mean,
he's been enabling them to go look for

1015
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:11.760
the Hall of Records. Literally,
their stated goal is to find Atlantis and

1016
01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:15.880
the Hall of Records. He's been
enabling them to do that since the seventies.

1017
01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:20.560
And there's been four or five different
drilling experiments that have happened. There

1018
01:17:20.560 --> 01:17:26.680
only one that's been publicly acknowledged,
which was supposedly to look at for groundwater

1019
01:17:26.720 --> 01:17:29.560
and the quality of the bedrock,
and that was done at the body of

1020
01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:32.039
the Sphinx, not at the pause, but yeah. I mean it's there's

1021
01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:34.119
a ton that goes on that we
don't know about. And I see the

1022
01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:36.640
evidence for every time I going to
the Great Pyramid, there's things happening in

1023
01:17:36.680 --> 01:17:41.880
there. They're doing all sorts of
work. They're up in the relieving chambers

1024
01:17:41.920 --> 01:17:45.760
above the King's Chamber at the moment
doing who knows what. I suspect they're

1025
01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:49.159
drilling and trying to find that big
void that's shown to exist through that.

1026
01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:53.880
So they're doing that when you were
just there, Let's say they've definitely been

1027
01:17:53.960 --> 01:17:57.000
up there. So I was there
last year as well, in October November,

1028
01:17:57.039 --> 01:18:00.960
and I saw a I saw a
cable like this, power cable running

1029
01:18:00.039 --> 01:18:03.000
up. So the entrance to those
relieving chambers is in the top left corner

1030
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:06.279
of the Grand Gallery. It's way
up in the corner, but there's a

1031
01:18:06.319 --> 01:18:09.880
cable running up in there, power
cable. And then this last time,

1032
01:18:09.920 --> 01:18:12.159
there's the ladder that they were using
to get in and out of there was

1033
01:18:12.159 --> 01:18:15.600
strapped to the rails in the Grand
Gallery. I asked the guy, Hey,

1034
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:16.319
can we get this ladder out and
go up in there? No,

1035
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:20.119
no, no, you can't do
that, but I tried. I really

1036
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:23.800
want I'm like, let me in
there, bro, I want to see

1037
01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:27.479
what's up there. But yeah,
this stuff happens. I don't know why.

1038
01:18:27.640 --> 01:18:30.000
I mean, honestly, even in
the last trip, which was like

1039
01:18:30.159 --> 01:18:34.079
six weeks, I went to sites, I went like, Abby grew up.

1040
01:18:34.119 --> 01:18:40.039
Great example they had the first trip
was there they had excavated the floor.

1041
01:18:40.039 --> 01:18:42.560
They've been excavating at that site,
and they had dug up the floor

1042
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:45.880
and there was an archaeologist there's walking
around taking photos of it. And then

1043
01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:49.640
and then a month later when I
came back on the second tour, they'd

1044
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:54.960
reburied it all. It's just like, okay, so where's that data?

1045
01:18:55.039 --> 01:18:57.920
Is that ever going to be publicly
available? I mean who, I mean,

1046
01:18:57.960 --> 01:19:00.640
it's just this. I think this
sort of stuff happens all the time.

1047
01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:04.319
I know it does, and it's
just it's just crazy that we just

1048
01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:10.680
don't they don't publish it. My
big frustration is is a hath Or temple

1049
01:19:10.720 --> 01:19:15.159
where we now know that there is
an earlier temple underneath, right, and

1050
01:19:15.199 --> 01:19:19.159
the authorities will not do ground penetrating
radar anywhere near that, And I'm like,

1051
01:19:19.479 --> 01:19:24.000
why, wh what's your story?
I'm the same, I'm like why

1052
01:19:24.079 --> 01:19:26.840
hasn't someone maybe this guy has that
you're going to talk to a But why

1053
01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:30.680
hasn't someone dragged a GPR so I
up and down the causeway of the Middle

1054
01:19:30.680 --> 01:19:33.800
Pyramid complex. I mean you go
down the Asar shaft, it's three levels

1055
01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:38.000
deep, it's one hundred and fifty
feet down. There literally passages going up

1056
01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:41.800
and down the causeway beneath there that
we've never explored. According to Zahi,

1057
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:45.159
they've never explored. You know,
for sure, there's there's passages and rooms

1058
01:19:45.159 --> 01:19:49.399
and chambers. I just can't tell. There's a like a world to discover

1059
01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:54.319
and we're just still working on.
Instead of saying flat out there's no tunnels,

1060
01:19:54.520 --> 01:19:58.479
there's nothing underneath the sphinx. Well, I mean it's like, come

1061
01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:01.439
on, guy, who's who's peeing
you off? Dude? It gets it

1062
01:20:01.479 --> 01:20:06.279
gets him? What he just lasting, I'll says that is he in the

1063
01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:12.319
nineties as part of this the Shaw
Expedition. So this is all so connected

1064
01:20:12.319 --> 01:20:17.319
to the edgu Casey Foundation. Yeah, and he made an announcement in the

1065
01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:20.239
Egyptian papers. It was in Arabic, but he said, hey, we've

1066
01:20:20.279 --> 01:20:24.439
made a momentous discovery. It's going
to change everything we think we know about

1067
01:20:24.439 --> 01:20:29.000
the history of civilization, and then
nothing. He never said another word about

1068
01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.680
it, and shortly after that he
changed his tune entirely. And he's been

1069
01:20:32.720 --> 01:20:35.439
a champion of what you would call
the standard model. And you know,

1070
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:41.479
we noticed Sphinx is related to Kafra, and it's all the Egyptians did it.

1071
01:20:41.479 --> 01:20:43.680
It's not old at all. But
he literally said that they'd made this

1072
01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:47.000
momentous discovery and then it was just
like, never another word said about it.

1073
01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:50.000
It's just And this was right around
the time of the show expedition,

1074
01:20:50.039 --> 01:20:55.399
which was he granted those guys,
the Ari people, Joseph saw Joseph Jehodah

1075
01:20:55.399 --> 01:20:59.720
Boris said, a five year unlimited
permit to do whatever they wanted on the

1076
01:20:59.800 --> 01:21:03.920
giar A plateau. And there wasn't
a single archaeologist amongst them. And they

1077
01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:06.479
did stuff, and I Boris aid, and these guys went on art bell

1078
01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:10.000
and you can dig up some of
the interesting things they said about it.

1079
01:21:10.439 --> 01:21:12.720
But yeah, they did stuff in
the Great Pyramid, up and down the

1080
01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:15.479
causeway at the Spheing, So we're
doing stuff all over the place. Nobody

1081
01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:19.720
knows what happened or what they found. Ben we could talk about this forever.

1082
01:21:20.199 --> 01:21:25.760
It's a fascinating subject and I really
appreciate your time. What day at

1083
01:21:26.079 --> 01:21:29.079
the Cosmic Semmino are you speaking and
can you give us the title of your

1084
01:21:29.119 --> 01:21:31.520
talk? Yes, it's June fifteenth
and sixteenth. I believe I'm speaking on

1085
01:21:31.560 --> 01:21:36.039
the sixteenth from the agenda that I
saw Sunday, it's Sunday. Yeah,

1086
01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:41.159
I'll be on the main stage.
I am going to be talking about where

1087
01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:45.319
I think the opportunities are for future
discovery. I think there's a bright future

1088
01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:48.760
ahead of us in terms of possibilities
for future works like where is this going?

1089
01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:54.680
And I also would like to talk
about some of the other forms of

1090
01:21:55.279 --> 01:21:58.560
technology and how they relate to the
Pyramids. So it's like I think there's

1091
01:21:58.560 --> 01:22:01.479
a whole story around the two drills
and then how they connect to the pyramids

1092
01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:05.199
and how all that technology actually is. I think that that's going to be

1093
01:22:05.239 --> 01:22:09.600
what I get into. I think
Adam is talking there also, he's going

1094
01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:12.199
to talk about the visis. So
I wasn't going to do the vises at

1095
01:22:12.239 --> 01:22:18.199
this I heard the rumor that somebody
was going to bring some one or two

1096
01:22:18.279 --> 01:22:24.359
pieces to show off I have.
Yeah, maybe Adam, Maybe Adam will

1097
01:22:24.359 --> 01:22:27.479
bring his vice. I don't know
if and if Matt turns up he might

1098
01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:30.760
bring his that'd be wonderful. Yeah, but that's I'm looking forward to that.

1099
01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:34.319
That's yeah, Ashville fifteenth and sixteenth. All right. So for more

1100
01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:40.479
information and information on what Ben's talking
about, as well as the others,

1101
01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:45.840
you can go to Cosmicsummit dot com, Forward slash Earth Ancients and you can

1102
01:22:45.880 --> 01:22:48.760
buy your tickets. If you can
get there in person, that's great.

1103
01:22:48.800 --> 01:22:51.880
But they will be doing streaming and
I got to tell you, fifty bucks

1104
01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:56.039
for two days is outrageous, so
check that out. Hey, Ben,

1105
01:22:56.199 --> 01:23:00.039
really a pleasure speaking with you,
and love what you're doing. And keep

1106
01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:03.119
it up man, you run.
Yes, Thanks, thanks Cliff. Great

1107
01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:16.159
great speaking with h Man. The
production on his YouTube channel Uncharted X is

1108
01:23:16.239 --> 01:23:21.600
excellent and he edits them beautifully and
that's why he's got a pretty concise following.

1109
01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:27.640
And you know, it's a great
channel to really see some of these

1110
01:23:27.880 --> 01:23:32.800
amazing sites. Years ago he was
with Graham and Peru. He goes through

1111
01:23:32.800 --> 01:23:39.520
some of the big sites there.
He's all over Egypt, Mexico and a

1112
01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:42.359
lot of other places too. So
good to have met him, Good to

1113
01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:45.119
have him on the program. I
hope, I hope you enjoyed that as

1114
01:23:45.199 --> 01:23:51.279
always. Catch him and the other
presenters, the A listers, and there's

1115
01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:59.319
you know, I think in total
there's maybe twenty five, maybe twenty speakers

1116
01:23:59.359 --> 01:24:04.560
in total. So your streaming media
fee of fifty bucks is great. The

1117
01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:10.039
other thing I didn't mention is the
fact that you get to keep the files

1118
01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:17.079
when you pay for the streaming media
for the Cosmic Summit conference, you get

1119
01:24:17.359 --> 01:24:20.880
the live feed. But if you
don't, if you're not able to catch

1120
01:24:21.520 --> 01:24:25.600
you know, everybody at the time
because you're living in a different country or

1121
01:24:25.640 --> 01:24:30.000
a different time zone, you can
just store it and come back to it.

1122
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:33.880
It's yours to keep. For more
information on streaming or to get yourself

1123
01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:40.319
there live, go to Cosmicsummit dot
com, Forward slash Earth Ancients. You

1124
01:24:40.359 --> 01:24:45.119
can see everything there. We'll be
there in heart and soul. I'll be

1125
01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:48.000
traveling and just recently come back,
so I can't get to that one this

1126
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:53.119
year, but I plan to go
to the twenty twenty five and see the

1127
01:24:53.439 --> 01:24:57.800
lineup. Then, great conference,
good people. We'll speak to the producer

1128
01:24:57.920 --> 01:25:03.279
next week, that's George how and
we will be featuring a few of the

1129
01:25:03.359 --> 01:25:09.359
main people in the future. We're
gonna speak with grand old Carlson, Pravene

1130
01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:14.960
Mohan No. I haven't spoken to
Pravene in probably four years, and I

1131
01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:18.560
miss chatting with him. He's having
I mean, he's got so much to

1132
01:25:18.640 --> 01:25:23.680
cover. And you know, it's
funny because Hugh Newman was just in Bangalore,

1133
01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:28.560
India and was with Provene and covered
some of the temples there. But

1134
01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:31.359
you know, there's so much to
see there, and in the back of

1135
01:25:31.399 --> 01:25:34.039
my mind, I'm thinking, Okay, tour time, tour time, tour

1136
01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:40.319
time. So okay, we'll see
what happens. Anyhow, check it out,

1137
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:46.880
great lineup, fantastic price, streaming, live conference material, you get

1138
01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:53.000
to keep it. For more information, go to Cosmic Summit dot com.

1139
01:25:53.039 --> 01:25:58.439
Forward Slash Earth Agents. Hey,
if you're enjoying Earth Answers, please consider

1140
01:25:58.560 --> 01:26:02.039
becoming a subscriber for as little as
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1141
01:26:02.039 --> 01:26:08.439
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1142
01:26:08.479 --> 01:26:14.720
Ancients Special Edition the Archives. It
takes a lot of resources, manpower and

1143
01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:19.000
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1144
01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:25.960
really appreciate it. To become a
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1145
01:26:26.239 --> 01:26:31.319
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1146
01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:35.840
fifteen, even twenty dollars a month
makes a huge, huge difference.

1147
01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:39.960
And I got to tell you,
not only would I appreciate it, but

1148
01:26:40.039 --> 01:26:44.159
we have gifts for you, and
gifts in the form of ebooks. We

1149
01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:48.840
have We're up to I think over
thirty copies of wonderful different ebooks in a

1150
01:26:48.920 --> 01:26:55.680
variety of subjects as a thank you
from our guests authors and this is for

1151
01:26:55.760 --> 01:27:00.520
you. Just simply download on your
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1152
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:08.000
could use the funding to become a
subscriber. Go to Patreon dot com Forward

1153
01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:11.840
Slash Earth Ancient. All right,
that's it for this week. I want

1154
01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:15.880
to thank my guest today, Ben
van Kirkhoick, coming to us from northern

1155
01:27:15.880 --> 01:27:21.840
California. As always, the team
of Gil Tour, Mark Foster and everyone

1156
01:27:21.880 --> 01:27:27.600
who makes this thing happen. You
guys rock all right, take care of

1157
01:27:27.640 --> 01:28:38.319
you well and we will talk to
you next time. Man