1
00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:07,200
Snapped is intended for mature audiences.
This episode contains mentions of hazing, suicide,

2
00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:12,480
childhood, sex abuse, assault,
and self harm. Please use discretion

3
00:00:12,519 --> 00:00:17,519
when listening. Opinions expressed by guests
on the show are their own and do

4
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:23,359
not necessarily represent the views of this
podcast. To access episode transcripts, consider

5
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,160
joining our Patreon at just two dollars
a month. These transcripts have a key

6
00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:32,119
at the top with the names and
schools of every speaker, so I highly

7
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,200
recommend if you want the ultimate follow
along experience, check them out on Patreon

8
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,520
dot com slash snapped. For additional
details about Snapped, visit Snaps the podcast

9
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,799
dot com, and don't forget to
follow us on social media at Snaps the

10
00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:54,079
podcast. Thank you so much for
listening, Let's start the ship show.

11
00:00:56,359 --> 00:01:00,320
When I was eighteen years old,
I became an Alpha FI sister at the

12
00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:06,599
University of Maryland. Three years after
disaffiliating from the chapter and three days before

13
00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:11,519
graduating college, I released the first
season of Snapped, a tell all podcast

14
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:18,040
series about my sorority experience. Since
the release of season one, I've interviewed

15
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:23,760
forty current or former Greek Life members, including some Greek Life adjacent individuals.

16
00:01:23,519 --> 00:01:30,599
These are their stories. I'm Lucy
Taylor, your host and favorite excommunicated sister.

17
00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:44,200
This is Snapped Snapped. All of
our playersh class had to sit on

18
00:01:44,239 --> 00:01:48,760
the floor of the basement and we
all had to tell each other as a

19
00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:53,680
bonding exercise, our deepest, darkest
secrets because we were sisters, and so

20
00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,120
we all sat as complete strangers.
And the first one to go to was

21
00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:04,400
like, yeah, I was molasted
by my stepfather growing up, like we

22
00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:07,639
were strangers, and she told a
group of like fifty of us. So

23
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,919
then like one by one, people
just started doing it because we was expected

24
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,800
of us and we didn't know.
We were like, okay, I guess

25
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,199
we have to do this. So
then someone was like, I got boyed

26
00:02:17,199 --> 00:02:21,919
in school all the time because I
had two moms. Someone was like,

27
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,439
yeah, my dad like beat my
mom in front of me every day.

28
00:02:24,759 --> 00:02:29,919
I got hit by a car and
my mom didn't come to the hospital,

29
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,520
and so people were like looking around, see, okay, who else is

30
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,759
going to do it? And I
felt bad for the girls who had gone

31
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,520
so I was like, I,
you know, have attempted suicide. And

32
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,919
then my close friend that was like
the closest friend I had in the sorority

33
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,360
kind of just once I said that, she kind of put her head down.

34
00:02:46,439 --> 00:02:51,280
She was just like, what the
fuck is going on? The night

35
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,639
before initiation, they were like,
we're gonna have this really important tradition that

36
00:02:54,719 --> 00:02:58,639
we do. They brought us into
one of the chapter rooms at like nine.

37
00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:00,800
We're all like, all, right, of initiation tomorrow in the morning.

38
00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:04,680
We ought to be going home soon, right, And so they sat

39
00:03:04,719 --> 00:03:07,759
all of us in a room.
There were between fifty to sixty girls in

40
00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:10,639
my member class, and they said, we're going to talk about the darkest

41
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,719
points of our lives. The darkest
point in my life. I was kind

42
00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:16,879
of going through at the time because
I had gotten as alted three months prior.

43
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,039
I was like, this is a
little odd. I don't really know

44
00:03:20,159 --> 00:03:23,520
these girls like that. And our
two new member educators went first and then

45
00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:28,280
they left and it was just us, just the new members, and I

46
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,400
went second and I said, I
got assaulted by someone in Greek life,

47
00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:35,759
and in the heat at the moment, I said, they belonged to this

48
00:03:36,039 --> 00:03:39,319
chapter. And I feel like that
was later used against me because it was

49
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,719
a chapter that we had good relations
with and whenever I would say I don't

50
00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:46,919
want him at this event. They
would say, like, we can't really

51
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,719
do that, you know, we
have really good relations with them. I

52
00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:53,360
wish I just kept deprivate and didn't
have to say he was in Greek life.

53
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,879
But it wasn't very much a heat
at the moment kind of thing,

54
00:03:55,919 --> 00:04:00,759
because it's so emotionally charged and in
the moment you're like, oh my god,

55
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,919
these are my sisters forever. And
as the night went on, it

56
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:10,080
seemed like psychological endurance to see how
much bad shit you could hear in my

57
00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:13,840
head as someone who was going through
something really dark. And I didn't look

58
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,920
at these other young women and see
their struggles and think of how strong they

59
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,000
were, But I thought, if
they can handle that shit, why can't

60
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,839
you work on yourself? Why are
you fucked up? And this wasn't like

61
00:04:24,879 --> 00:04:29,160
an hour long activity where people just
kept it short. It went from nine

62
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,480
pm to four thirty in the morning
of just every single girl going sobbing,

63
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,199
talking about the darkest part of their
lives. Nothing was left out. There

64
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,920
was death, there was child sex
abuse, there was domestic violence. And

65
00:04:41,959 --> 00:04:45,399
it lasted till four thirty in the
morning. Some girls went home, Some

66
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,519
girls just slept on the floor because
they were so tired. That happened when

67
00:04:48,519 --> 00:04:51,879
I was a freshman. I'm a
senior now. I still look at girls

68
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,439
in my chapter who I didn't talk
to a lot, and the first thing

69
00:04:55,439 --> 00:05:00,199
I think of is their trauma.
There have been sometimes where girls used want

70
00:05:00,199 --> 00:05:15,439
against each other. Snappers were huh
uh, welcome back to snapped everybody.

71
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:23,240
What you just heard were interviews with
students from James Madison University and the University

72
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,720
of Maryland. While what they shared
might sound shocking to some of you,

73
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,720
this trauma circle is actually a practice
in many sororities. I did it as

74
00:05:34,759 --> 00:05:41,920
a pledge in Alpha Fee, and
at the time I was like, Wow,

75
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,759
I'm becoming so close with my sisters. I did not question it or

76
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:57,240
realize what they were actually doing.
Social psychologist Alexandra Stein describes this practice of

77
00:05:57,319 --> 00:06:03,480
group trauma sharing in her book Error, Love and Brainwashing. Stein explains how

78
00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:10,920
the group member that is sharing feels
fearful because they're recalling their trauma and sharing

79
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,720
it in front of an audience.
Stein notes that thus feelings of fear,

80
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,079
while aroused and manipulated by the group, will not be attributed to the group's

81
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:29,319
actions, but two events in the
narrator's past. Instead, the group positions

82
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,480
themselves as a safe space in which
you can share your worst memories and moments.

83
00:06:35,319 --> 00:06:44,360
So this is not a trauma informed
group therapy session right like, there

84
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:53,560
is no license therapist in sight.
This seems like a trauma bonding circle that's

85
00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:59,959
being led by your twenty year old
pledge mom who's not even a psych major.

86
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,920
According to Stein, the difference between
the two lies in the motivations of

87
00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:15,600
the group and its control over the
situation. I spoke with Julie, a

88
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,920
former Kappa Delta sister at the University
of Idaho. We're going to call her

89
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:27,480
Katie Julie from now on. In
my interview with Katie Julie, she revealed

90
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:34,839
how her chapter would control the Trauma
circle. After initiation, when we're not

91
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:41,240
allowed to leave the house, they
like draw all the blinds and they tell

92
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,480
everyone to go get blankets and put
on pj's, and they say all the

93
00:07:46,519 --> 00:07:49,079
secrets. They teach you, the
knock, they teach you the handshake.

94
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,360
It was the way that they sort
of like kicked it off in one of

95
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,560
our first like rituals. But a
senior always admits and they have a script

96
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,720
and we didn't know this, but
they had a script that they were like

97
00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:07,399
one senior always admits to almost committing
suicide. Like they were like, we've

98
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,160
only ever had a couple of years
where a senior hasn't admitted that as like

99
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,160
a corsion method to be like,
look, you can trust me. I'm

100
00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:18,360
giving you this trauma as like currency
for now you can give me your secrets.

101
00:08:22,079 --> 00:08:26,800
So the senior does it first.
M Like the seniors will stand up

102
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,120
and they'll be like, Okay,
here's the knock, and here's everything,

103
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:35,600
and we're gonna put up some AOT
walls and here is something from my past,

104
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,200
and would go off on a story. It was like an unofficial script

105
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,879
where like no one had written anything
out, but like this is what you

106
00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:46,519
say, and then you admit this, and then you admit this, and

107
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:54,159
then you sum it up with this
Snapped. Being a pledge in a sorority

108
00:08:54,519 --> 00:09:03,320
means that you've made it past recruitment, but you were not initiated yet.

109
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,960
Pledge is interchangeable with new member or
baby. If you heard season one of

110
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:16,399
Snapped, you might remember that my
old sorority wasn't allowed to call us pledges,

111
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,200
so the older girls would call us
babies. The pledge mom, also

112
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:28,360
known as new member educator, is
an already initiated sister who is like this

113
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:35,519
maternal figure for the new pledge class. At the very beginning, my pledge

114
00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:39,080
moms I had two of them.
Actually, they would be like, oh

115
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,440
my god, this pledge class is
literally so stunning, Like we all keep

116
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,159
talking about how you gedge, literally
so pretty. Like we don't haze at

117
00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:54,919
Alpaphie. We just constantly tell you
how pretty you are. Flash forward like

118
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,679
a day or two and they're telling
us, Oh, you were an embarrassment

119
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,759
because some of us got too drunk
at our first social. We always wanted

120
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:11,799
our pledge mom's approval, but getting
it was kind of trial and error.

121
00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:18,879
I spoke with Julia, a millennial
woman who went to the University of Pittsburgh.

122
00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:26,480
Julia told me about the beginning of
her new member process. But I

123
00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:30,039
do remember making an effort, like
I remember going out to dinner with the

124
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,399
older girls trying to get their advice. I remember like putting a lot of

125
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:39,039
effort into all of my new member
stuff and like trying to be present.

126
00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,759
But I remember one new member meeting. I had a searing migraine and I

127
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,399
was like in so much pain,
but I paid attention the whole time.

128
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,480
I just had my eyes closed and
I answered the questions. And then at

129
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,279
the end of the meeting, our
new member educator goes, Julia, I

130
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,200
need to talk to you, pulls
me aside and goes, that's not going

131
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,759
to fly on a sister meeting.
I was like, what she's like closing

132
00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:03,559
your eyes. I was like what
she was quizzing us on, like national

133
00:11:03,639 --> 00:11:09,559
stuff and what I think it was
like, who our founders were like shit

134
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,960
like that. I was like,
okay, And I remember thinking like,

135
00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:15,240
these girls are kind of mean,
Like I thought we were supposed to be

136
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:22,279
the Chill Sorority. Mm, the
Chill Sorority. It's a classic, classic

137
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:28,639
tale. I mean we've all heard
that one right. Part of being a

138
00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:33,679
new member is attending these pledge meetings
where you're trained to be an obedient sister.

139
00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,639
You learn things like the dews and
don'ts of social media, you sign

140
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:46,600
all the contracts, and you learn
all the sorority history with that. Oh

141
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,440
no, no, no, not
the sorority history like their roots and slavery.

142
00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:56,799
No, they're talking history, like
the names of the founders and the

143
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:03,519
official flower of the chapter. I
spoke with a former Sigma Delta tall sister

144
00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:09,879
who we're going to call isabel Isabelle
became a subrity pledge in her second semester

145
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:16,159
of college at the University of Maryland. Here's how that went. You know,

146
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,159
I was a first year college student. I had a full schedule.

147
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,320
I was still trying to make friends, and we'd have to kind of like

148
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,440
at the drop of a hat,
go to the house whenever the new member.

149
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,320
Educators would email us no matter like
where we were, and we wouldn't

150
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,759
know how long we would be there, and so that put me in a

151
00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:39,480
tough position for like hanging out with
my other friends and doing homework and eating

152
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,519
meals. So they would literally be
like come here. Yeah, Like if

153
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,159
it was like six pm, I'd
get an email like you need to be

154
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,200
here at six fifteen. Yeah,
And then we didn't know when we were

155
00:12:50,279 --> 00:12:52,559
leaving, so you know, I
don't know how much food to pack,

156
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,559
I don't know what we're doing.
So like sometimes we had time for homework,

157
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,600
sometimes we didn't. We couldn't enter
the house until all of the new

158
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:05,399
members were lined up outside the house, and we weren't allowed to sit on

159
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:11,840
the furniture, which I found really
degrading. They also also took our swipes

160
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,759
and our keys most days when we
were at new member education, and so

161
00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:22,360
just like that lack of control,
what yeah, why did they why did

162
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,080
they take them? They took them
like to put our big little stuff in

163
00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:28,840
our rooms, and just like,
you don't know who you're big is,

164
00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:33,399
so you're allowing someone who you don't
even know to go into your dorm room

165
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,559
and kind of do whatever they want
in it. And I felt like I

166
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,480
didn't have a choice to say no, I don't feel comfortable giving you my

167
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,720
key and my swipe. I have
like a distinct memory of one time we

168
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:50,159
were in the basement and the new
member educators were like going around asking people

169
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,519
who these people were in the sorority, so pointing to people and saying like,

170
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:56,879
who's this and if they didn't know, they would like yell at us

171
00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:58,759
and be like, how do you
not know who this person is? There's

172
00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:03,039
just a lot of yelling, and
it was really hard for me just to

173
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,759
hear people yelling at other people and
knowing that like, I'm just trying to

174
00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,639
like figure everything out, and I'm
not going to have every member of the

175
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,960
sorority who I just joined. I'm
not going to have every name memorized.

176
00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:18,000
You know, a lot of people
think trauma is just like being in a

177
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,360
hurricane or being assaulted, and really
there's so much trauma around us all the

178
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,600
time because it's based on our subjective
experience. So you know, Lucy,

179
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:30,159
if you and me were in the
same situation and the same thing happened to

180
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,519
us, you might have some trauma
and I might not. I learned more

181
00:14:35,559 --> 00:14:41,000
about the purpose of the new Member
period and Women of Discriminating Taste. This

182
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:46,559
is a book by cultural historian Margaret
Freeman, who we spoke with last season.

183
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,320
Lucky for us, Freeman will continue
to provide us with a historical context

184
00:14:52,720 --> 00:15:00,559
throughout this season as well. In
the season two Recruitments special, Freeman explained

185
00:15:00,559 --> 00:15:05,440
how sorority women would model their behavior
off of what she terms the Southern esthetic.

186
00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:11,399
We're going to build off of this
notion throughout the season, so let's

187
00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:15,759
do a quick recap. The Southern
aesthetic, as I term it, it's

188
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,120
like a style of being or a
mode of self presentation. It's most obvious

189
00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:24,799
in the devotion to what we might
think of as this popular Southern imagery,

190
00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:28,639
and that was the image that was
nationally promoted and accepted across the US in

191
00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:33,799
the first half of the twentieth century, and it presented a really sanitized,

192
00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:37,399
very white image of this quote unquote
Old South. But what we don't see

193
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,240
here, what we've been taught to
ignore, really is the horrors of slavery,

194
00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:46,960
the enslavement and terrorization of black people
whose forced labor enabled that vision of

195
00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,120
the white old South that's been the
standard image for so many years. And

196
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,360
so the continuance of the Southern aesthetic
here also provides a symbolic means, then

197
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:03,519
of preserving white, mostly Protestant elite
interests. And I argue that's what's going

198
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:08,480
on with national sororities in the twin
century and continuing certainly today. It is

199
00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:14,879
about maintaining that white privilege with the
limited membership, and importantly, the Southern

200
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,039
esthetic allows you to promote that ideal
implicitly without being really obvious about this.

201
00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:25,200
So certainly we see the explicit use
of Southern imagery in sororities and fraternities right

202
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,480
through things like plantation themed parties and
pageants. Through building and even remodeling of

203
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:36,519
chapter houses to present that Southern colonial
architectural style, the one that evokes this

204
00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:41,320
popularized image we have of these sort
of quote unquote plantation home. The sorority

205
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,919
women or modeled their behavior is modeling
this ideal of the southern lady. You're

206
00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:49,080
supposed to be the epitome of woman, the ladylike ideal, the otherness that

207
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:56,759
still signals a protective space for white
people and white privilege in these national organizations.

208
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:03,360
In Women of Discriminating Taste, Freeman's
dates that sororities saw the pledge period

209
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:08,799
as the optimal time to mold the
desired identity of new members. She also

210
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:15,680
notes that the nineteen twenty seven Kappa
Alpha Theta Pledge training book states that pledges

211
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:22,680
are the most impressionable and ready to
follow suggestions and examples of members. This

212
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:29,079
book also instructed the chapter to view
each pledge as an individual problem. If

213
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:34,039
she was guided and helped rightly,
the pledge would be an asset and if

214
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:44,119
not, a liability. H reading
that reminded me of my interview with Katie.

215
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:51,319
Julie so I had a sister.
She was the only woman in my

216
00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:56,119
class that was a woman of color, and she was at the university on

217
00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:02,880
scholarship, got through her sorority dues
on scholarship, so like was not in

218
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,319
the same wealth bracket that a lot
of the women like myself were, But

219
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,559
that also meant that her fashion was
a little bit different than us, Like

220
00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:15,480
we were all going to like playboy
bunny parties and dressing up the part,

221
00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:21,079
and she would go in a clubbing
dress and that was seen as slutty and

222
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,920
like she had one clubbing dress and
I think maybe she had too, And

223
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:26,920
she would alternate when she would wear
them, because you don't want to wear

224
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,119
the sham dress like twice in a
row. And people are like, someone

225
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,640
needs to get destiny some new clothes, Like what she wears is not what

226
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,240
we expect of our ladies. Like
there was a lot of talking, like

227
00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:45,920
what are we going to do about
destiny? How do you know my pledge

228
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:52,319
mom? The president of the chapter
and their alumni relations would go to Applebee's

229
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,599
after every chapter and would talk shit
about people. And they needed a freshman

230
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:04,319
to drive them, and I was
the freshman so they could drink got it,

231
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,200
And they called it risk management,
like you driving them was risk management?

232
00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:15,559
No, the whole event, the
whole going to Applebee's to talk shit.

233
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,240
They called that risk management. We
would be at Applebee's and we'd be

234
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,200
sitting at the table. They would
talk shit to each other about what like

235
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,079
so and so did this. I
would find out who wasn't passing classes because

236
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:32,039
they have access to all this information
and they're just talking about it and I'm

237
00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:34,359
sitting there. How do they have
access? Because we have to send in

238
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:40,640
grades in order to remain on good
standing at the sorority. So like,

239
00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:42,720
in order to be in good standing
and be able to speak at chapter,

240
00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:45,680
you have to be making a three
point zero average, And like I would

241
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,480
fall into that category sometimes where I
wouldn't make grades and they'd be like,

242
00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:56,839
you're no longer on good standing,
you may not speak at chapter. This

243
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:02,680
episode is brought to you by all
of in June. I don't know about

244
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:07,599
y'all, but I could not keep
up with Sabrity World's beauty standards. Always

245
00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:12,200
straightening your hair, always doing your
nails, and like, I pick my

246
00:20:12,279 --> 00:20:17,759
nails and I've just never really been
good at doing my nails myself. But

247
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,319
then I discovered Olive in June.
Basically Olive in June is how to get

248
00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:30,799
a dy nail salon in your house
Snappers. They've created these nail kits called

249
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:37,119
systems that literally come with everything you
need for salon quality nails. So they

250
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,200
have a manny system, a petty
system, and a press on system,

251
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,279
which is my personal favorite. Like
I'm over here with my cuticle serum and

252
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:51,359
my nail strengthener and then I'm over
there with my little cuticle pusher and I

253
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,039
am genuinely playing nail salon. I
discovered Alive in June about a year ago

254
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,799
through their pressans. Unlike other pressons
I've used where I feel like they're about

255
00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:03,960
to fall off, Olive and June
press ons come with so many sizes to

256
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:10,599
ensure that they fit perfectly to your
nail my sensory issues. Love it,

257
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,039
and now that I have my press
on system, I literally have everything I

258
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:21,000
need for salon quality press ons in
one box. If only Alpha Pie could

259
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:26,160
see me now, visit Olive and
June dot com slash snapped for twenty percent

260
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:32,680
off your first Olive and June's system. That's O L I v A N

261
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:41,039
D j U n E. Dot
Com slash snapped for twenty percent off your

262
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:48,440
first Manny, petty press on or
complete nail System. My favorite part of

263
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,039
it all is that I'm not doing
my nails for the soubrity of recruitment look

264
00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:56,720
book. I'm doing my nails as
part of my self care routine because it

265
00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:12,480
makes me feel good and I like
playing nail salon Snapped. Based on my

266
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:22,400
own experience and my research, I've
concluded that sororities love to use humiliation as

267
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,440
a form of punishment. I mean, if they call you out in front

268
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:32,599
of the entire chapter for whatever mistake
you made, I bet you're not going

269
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,160
to want to make that mistake again. In Women of Discriminating Taste, Freeman

270
00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:42,480
says that in nineteen ten, the
tried outs at Stanford University called for girls

271
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:47,839
to be in at ten pm.
If the women did not make it in

272
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,720
time, their names would be read
at chapter meetings by the senior critic,

273
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,000
not the senior critic. And yeah, this was a long time ago,

274
00:22:56,839 --> 00:23:02,799
but as you'll see throughout the series, this is a pattern of behavior that's

275
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:07,759
continued up till present day. Well. And like the girls that were on

276
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,680
for financial bad standing, they would
read off the amount they owed in front

277
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,920
of everyone. In the chapter.
So like today in good standing is Sister

278
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:21,519
A, Sister B. Sister see
today on bad standing is Sister E with

279
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:29,000
a balance of five hundred dollars,
Sister F bad standing socially Sister G,

280
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:36,400
who also owes a thousand dollars plus
one hundred dollars for like missing an event

281
00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:42,720
also on social bad standing that was
paid Julie. I actually interviewed someone else

282
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,279
whose chapter used this call out method. This time it was a sister at

283
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:52,119
Penn State. Like they used to
just put people on blast about like whether

284
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,200
or not they had paid their dues. They would call people's names out basically

285
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,319
say like, seventeen members haven't paid
their dues. Your names are as follows

286
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:06,680
and name like Sarah, Katie,
Emily, Jessica, like every single person

287
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:11,039
by name. I know personally,
I was one of very few people who

288
00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:14,200
paid for their dues out of their
own pocket. And then I do remember

289
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,960
they really frontload the costs because we
had new member fees, we had our

290
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,279
regular membership fees. We had to
pay for our pin which it is one

291
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:27,480
hundred and sixty dollars just for our
pint of Yeah, the outfits it's going

292
00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:33,319
to themed parties, you're drop in
money. I still have access to an

293
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,680
entire presentation about dues and don'ts of
frat Land, saying things like, you

294
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,799
can't wear converts to the frats,
you'll look like a jeed. Like they

295
00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:48,839
added Amazon links to like booties,
like pictures from girls in our sorority,

296
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,880
and they were like, this is
what you should wear, and this is

297
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,960
what's acceptable, and like sneakers are
only okay if it's a game day or

298
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,599
a themed party. You can't wear
them on a normal week day. And

299
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,079
so you know, people like who
have a lot of money, they're probably

300
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,960
laughing at that. But if you're
struggling to get by taking out thousands and

301
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,200
thousands of dollars of loans just to
get through college, what are you what

302
00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:15,359
are you going to do? You
will be the odd man out if you

303
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,359
don't comply with those rules. And
those rules cost a lot of money.

304
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Another part of the control that costs
a lot of money are the fines.

305
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:30,079
We'll get more into the money side
of things in a later episode, but

306
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,079
for right now, let's examine fines
as a means of control. And if

307
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:40,079
you missed chapter which was once every
Sunday, they would find you, which

308
00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:44,119
I think is ridiculous. If you
can't make it a chapter because you're cramming

309
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,480
for a final that you need to
get a good grade on, it doesn't

310
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,279
matter because you need to be a
chapter where they just tell you which mixers

311
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:53,519
do you have that weekend? With
what frats? And then I get fined

312
00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:57,680
Fucking Bill Hodway. They would charge
me for a missing chapter. I think

313
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,400
it was fifty dollars. Once I
started getting really depressed, I stopped going

314
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,920
to chapter. I stopped going to
any of the events. So when you

315
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:11,400
stopped going to chapter, would they
find you every week? Did you pay

316
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,559
it? Yeah? They were threatening
to send it to collections, so that

317
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,759
was your way. Do you know
how much you paid them? I think

318
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:23,240
at the end it was like somewhere
around six hundred dollars for not going to

319
00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:27,400
chapter. Yep, yep. And
that was in addition to the two thousand

320
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,119
I was I was paying a semester
for dudes. It was two thousand a

321
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:40,680
semester that was Harper from James Madison
University. I spoke with a former tried

322
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,319
out named Maggie who had the same
dilemma as Harper. At that point,

323
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,200
I'm like, I don't want to
go to chapter. I have a test

324
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,279
to study for. But they're like, if you missed three chapters, you

325
00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:52,640
get fined. I'm like, fuck
it, I'll take the fine. Like

326
00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:56,200
what else would you get fined for
not going to chapter missing events? I

327
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,799
think academic probation if you had to
log asterout to study hours. If you

328
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,359
do that, you had to pay
a fine. If you are on a

329
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,559
financial probation, like if you weren't
paying your dues on time, they would

330
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,160
just add more fees to it.
Or we already paid thousands of dollars and

331
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,079
do it. We paid so much
money and dues. But I was lucky

332
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,440
because my parents were willing to pay
for it. And my parents didn't know

333
00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:21,039
it was actually happening. They were
like, Oh, we're so glad that

334
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,680
you're getting involved in something that will
help you meet new people. I wasn't

335
00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:30,000
in my sorority long enough to get
fined. I'm sure I would have been

336
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,799
fined at some point, but I
was curious about the behind the scenes of

337
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:38,160
these fines, and so I asked
Katie. Julie, and when you get

338
00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:45,599
built for things like fines and stuff, does it say just fine or does

339
00:27:45,599 --> 00:27:52,119
it say fine four x X.
It would usually say like bed check fine

340
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,559
or missing grades fine? Is that
legal to do a bed check fine?

341
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,400
I don't know. Don't worry.
We'll discuss bed check in five minutes.

342
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,319
And where do your fines go?
The fines just got collected by the chapter

343
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,400
and then they were divvied out.
If it was like you're missing clubs,

344
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,920
you need to be engaging in more
clubs, and because you didn't engage in

345
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:18,599
enough clubs this semester and that's a
national standard, we're gonna find you one

346
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,880
hundred dollars and that fine would go
to nationals. But a bed check fine

347
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,359
would go back to the chapter and
would be considered part of the housing budget.

348
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,200
You would get fined for not being
in enough clubs, not enough clubs,

349
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,519
or like not enough classes. Was
there a list anywhere of like finds

350
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,480
and the amount of money. Nope, they could make fines out of nothing.

351
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,839
Like we would get like scolded at
chapter where they're like, ladies,

352
00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,119
don't make us find you for this, and where do you pay the fines?

353
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,519
On Bill Highway on Bill Highway,
Bill Highway dot com. Baby I

354
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:06,079
use too. According to the twenty
seventeen UMD Alpha fee financial contracts. Bill

355
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,000
Highway is an online financial system that
partners with sorority chapters and allows members to

356
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:17,640
be invoiced for all international dues,
chapter dues, and housing related fees on

357
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:22,400
one consolidated statement. And then I
get fine, fucking Bill Highway. Do

358
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,079
you think Bill havers in on it? I think they know that they enable

359
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,839
college kids to build people for whatever, because I got to see the backside

360
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,680
of Bill Highway, like the finance
side, because my friend was the finance

361
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,359
VP, and Bill Highway would tell
her if people hadn't paid, and then

362
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:44,039
if she needed to add something,
she literally had a drop down many that

363
00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:47,519
was like add new bill or add
new fee, and she could do it

364
00:29:47,559 --> 00:29:49,480
for one person, she could do
it for the whole chapter if she wanted

365
00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:53,759
to. She could like put in
a fee without like running it by anyone.

366
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,240
No adult had to approve it.
There were no adults in her position.

367
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:03,079
She had one all with someone from
Nationals once and they were like,

368
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,279
have a great day. And now
she was just in charge of the finances

369
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:11,400
for the whole chapter. And is
she keeping a spreadsheet of like where the

370
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,799
money is going? Like she's doing
all of the work of a financial manager

371
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,279
and like she's a college shoot it, and she was in like an animation

372
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:22,480
field, like she wanted to work
on Disney movies, and she's like,

373
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:33,960
I'm spending all my time animating a
shark and finding women. So you might

374
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:42,839
be wondering, how do groups that
do things like financially exploit their members end

375
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,440
up on college campuses. Well,
listen, I had the same question.

376
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:56,960
So Margaret Freeman will explain at the
very beginning, they're creating this space that's

377
00:30:56,319 --> 00:31:02,480
needed for women who are the pioneers
on campuses that had been all male previously,

378
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:06,559
and providing a space to have support
where they may not have had any

379
00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:10,799
because there probably were no female mentors
at least at first. Some teams.

380
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:17,640
A woman really found that very helpful
to have an additional way to have women's

381
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:23,319
behavior monitored. And you have suggestions
for how what sort of behavioral standards these

382
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:27,480
women who are not in sorties maybe
should emulate. But then as time goes

383
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:32,119
on, there's other organizations for women. There's you know, student government and

384
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,160
sports clubs. As there's more women
on campus, there's a little bit more

385
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,200
provided for them. Why women,
again, I should mention, of course,

386
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,319
in this time, and so in
the face again of criticism about these

387
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:47,319
groups, why what were we providing? Why are we here? And how

388
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:51,200
can we sell ourselves as an important
part of campus. And I think that's

389
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,240
where the social education starts becoming something
that gets talked about more. You're selling

390
00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,319
that as this part of college that
the women wouldn't be getting just going to

391
00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:05,359
class. The alumni thought that having
the houses were really integral in this training

392
00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:10,960
of young women. So having that
control or policing of behavior within the sorority

393
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,319
house among the stray sisters could be
seen as useful. Living in the sorority

394
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:24,400
chapter house was an unforgettable experience,
to say the least. So I already

395
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:32,000
knew how anxiety inducing living there can
be, but I was truly truly humbled

396
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:38,640
about my own experience living in a
quad in the house when Katie Julie told

397
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:46,000
me about the sleeping porches in her
sorority house. Oh, let's take it

398
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:53,119
back to twenty eighteen at the University
of Idaho. There we'll find Katie Julie

399
00:32:53,480 --> 00:33:02,680
moving in to the motherfucking chapter house. We did recruitment and then on midday

400
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,920
they moved us into the house.
So they moved us out of our dorms.

401
00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:12,960
The day you'd bought your bid,
you opened your mid card, you

402
00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:16,480
ran home, and then a bunch
of seniors drove their cars over said hop

403
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:21,319
in and you moved all of your
stuff out of shipping containers where it's spent

404
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:27,279
all of recruitment into the house.
It's first semester freshman year, first semester

405
00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:31,079
freshman year that university had worked out
a system with Greek life that like that

406
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:37,400
counted as freshman year on campus housing. In the time, I was like,

407
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,440
this is normal. This is what
everyone else here is doing, and

408
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,119
women before me have done it,
so it doesn't seem like it should be

409
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:54,680
an issue. Do you know what
a sleeping porches? No? Okay,

410
00:33:54,839 --> 00:34:00,960
So almost all of the sororities except
for one, had these things called sleeping

411
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,839
porches, and they were large rooms
filled with bunk beds, and that is

412
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,840
where everyone slept. And you had
a separate room that was like you and

413
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,320
three other girls, and your desk
and your closet was there. But you

414
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,079
would go somewhere else to sleep,
and you would sleep in a room with

415
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:22,639
bunk beds with other women all at
the same time. So you were moving

416
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,679
in and they were like, Okay, here's your bunk bed and I was

417
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:31,199
the middle of a three high bunk
bed and wait, I'm sorry, but

418
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:37,199
this literally like is scary. It
sounds bad, It sounds really bad.

419
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,639
But if you like look it up, like sleeping porches, the Universe video

420
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,840
still condone them. All their sorority
women still sleep on sleeping porches. Not

421
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,920
only did you like have a bed
where like the person next to you was

422
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,840
like less than a foot away and
you're sleeping like really close to them in

423
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,840
bunk bed style, someone would come
and check on you on certain days of

424
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,679
the week and make sure you were
in your bed, and they would call

425
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,199
it bed checks and they'd be like, bed checks happen at three am.

426
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,800
You have to be in your bed, in your sleeping porch at three am.

427
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,079
If you're not, we'll find you. I think it happened every Sunday.

428
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,440
You had to be back in the
house. You had to be in

429
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,800
your bed, you had to sleep
in your bed on Sundays. And then

430
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,159
like initiation week, they would do
the same thing where it was like every

431
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:17,840
day of the week, you have
to be in your bed. You can't

432
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,320
spend the night at your boyfriends.
You can't spend the night at your partners.

433
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,480
Like there were girls that like put
mattresses or extra large dog beds in

434
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:29,360
the room with like their desk and
everything, and they would call it a

435
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,000
squish and they'd be like, I
would rather sleep on two extra large dog

436
00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:37,400
beds than sleep on my sleeping porch
bed. And they would like go back

437
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,559
at three am, sleep for an
hour in their bed, and then go

438
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:43,360
back and sleep on these like extra
large dog beds on the floor of their

439
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,880
room after the check, after the
check, because like maybe they sloured.

440
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,920
Like one girl I know had sleep
at me and she was like, I

441
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,880
know, we like all sleep in
the same room, but like I feel

442
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,280
uncomfortable forcing you guys to listen to
it, so I go sleep somewhere else.

443
00:35:58,039 --> 00:35:59,559
And like she was like, but
I have to get up for an

444
00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:00,800
hour and go and like sit in
my bed for a bit. Who did

445
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:07,320
the checks? Are council members?
So like exact exact. Yeah, So

446
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,320
the president she had her own room
and she had a bed in her own

447
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,239
room. That was like a perk
of the president chill suite is that you

448
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,000
want your own room in your own
bed, not the presidential suite. So

449
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,800
the president was oftentimes tasked with doing
the check. But if it was like

450
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,239
multiple days in a row, the
president would be like, Okay, I'm

451
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,960
doing Monday. VP of Recruitman is
doing it Tuesday. VP of PR is

452
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,440
doing it Wednesday, and they would
have signed it out. And do you

453
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:35,519
remember a time that someone wasn't there
didn't make the check. I don't remember

454
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,440
there being a time that people didn't
make the check, but there were people

455
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:44,159
that just would. They would just
like take the infraction. They're like,

456
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:45,480
I'm gonna sleep my boyfriends. I
know it's one hundred and fifty dollars,

457
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:51,119
Like that's how much it was one
hundred and fifty dollars out of bed bed

458
00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:52,719
check. They would like schedule it
out in their paycheck where it's like,

459
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,239
oh, this happens on our anniversary. He's going to put in fifty bucks.

460
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,480
I'm going to put forward the hundred
and well in the middle, Wait,

461
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:07,239
it's nuts. How much were your
dues and how much was it to

462
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,840
live in the house. Ten thousand
dollars would be like a very low ballpark

463
00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:15,159
ten thousand a semester, yep,
And that was to live in the house

464
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,039
because it was room and board,
plus our due, plus a bunch of

465
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:22,159
like extra fees. Like there was
like every year we were build for a

466
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:28,360
necklace that we got our freshman year
and we were built fifty dollars for it

467
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,920
every year, and we were like, are you sure we're still paying off

468
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,079
this necklace? Like this necklace that
is like faded. Our sority had four

469
00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:42,119
porches and there was two normal porches. Normal was deemed like you have an

470
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:47,239
alarm after eight am, you go
to bed anywhere before two am, and

471
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,280
like when you're in your bed,
you won't talk, like you'll have headphones

472
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,400
if you're going to listen to something. And then there was a quiet porch

473
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,199
where you weren't allowed to have an
alarm because those women needed like complete silence

474
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,719
to go to sleep. And then
I slept on loud porch, which was

475
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,840
four people that snored, people that
had alarms, Like I had an eight

476
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,320
am and so I had to have
an alarm at six You had to listen

477
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,639
to everyone's alarms. And there was
a girl that came in like I have

478
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:17,199
a video off snapchat that was like
this is the sleeping porch and it's a

479
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,960
girl that's so drunk. She had
puked her own bunk and her big was

480
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:28,639
there like down and like all of
us are trying to sleep, Like it

481
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:30,119
was three thirty at the time.
It was like, that's okay because it's

482
00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:35,280
loud porch. You know you signed
up for this, Yes it is.

483
00:38:36,679 --> 00:38:43,599
Oh, that's all. So how
many people were in the loud room like

484
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:49,239
twenty five? Yeah, like twenty
five people consistently, and like you know

485
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,719
the toddler guardrails that you can put
on beds that don't roll off, like

486
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,840
women would put those up. They
would like hang sheets from the ceiling.

487
00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:00,960
Everyone had a heated blanket. Because
it was Idaho, and because you have

488
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,840
twenty five women all in a room
with bunk beds, the ventilation wasn't good,

489
00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:08,480
so they would keep the windows open
twenty four seven. So you also

490
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:13,559
couldn't go to sleep with your hair
wet, otherwise your hair would freeze because

491
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:15,559
they legally had to keep the windows
open in order for there to be enough

492
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:19,480
ventilation. And so like you'd be
going to bed and you'd be like,

493
00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:22,280
Okay, I've blow dried my hair, my homework's done, I've locked my

494
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:27,119
room, crawls up into bed,
and then sit there for thirty minutes watching

495
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:32,280
like TikTok or whatever, like locked
my room meeting, locked the room where

496
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,320
your desk is, because like we
would smoke pot. We had canvases that

497
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,480
were like a little dirty, and
because people could come into the house and

498
00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:45,360
like walk around the house, you
didn't want your room open if you had

499
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:51,920
things that were like not seen as
sorority, like approved, and like my

500
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:59,760
big had weed that she like kept
in a locked box inside another locked box

501
00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:04,360
on top of her closet, and
she was like and even then I'm not

502
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:15,159
sure if our house mom will come
in and like check shit snapped. Part

503
00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:23,119
of my research included reading Fraternities Without
Brotherhood by sociologist Alfred mcclungley, originally published

504
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:30,599
in nineteen fifty five. Lee notes
that the social elements of fraternities and sororities

505
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:39,400
replace rather different childhood archetypes. He
states that the frat house frequently has about

506
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,480
it something of the Arab a home
from which the parents are temporarily absent and

507
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:50,920
are not yet expected back, and
in which the sons and their friends have

508
00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:55,639
taken over just be trash everywhere,
like dishes everywhere, ash everywhere time in

509
00:40:55,679 --> 00:41:00,719
the chapter house. So it would
constantly smell the dirtiest bones sitting around and

510
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:07,760
like no orders, half drank drinks. I'm surprised that the floor has not

511
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,639
caved in in the house that they
were in. Lee states that, on

512
00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:17,079
the other hand, a sorority house
is more like a home in which the

513
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:22,519
daughters have replaced their mother in control. Someone needs to get Destiny some new

514
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:28,280
clothes, like what she wears is
not what we expect of our ladies.

515
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,159
I was on my phone the other
day looking at old conversations, and I

516
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:37,280
found this conversation with a former sister
of mine where I'm explaining to her that

517
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:43,039
I can't find my dad pen in
the house because we weren't allowed to smoke

518
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,400
in the house, and so my
gall like me, needs her dad pen.

519
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,320
And so I say to her,
I'm scared. I brought it with

520
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,960
me downstairs. I've looked everywhere.
I'm crying. I'm so anxious. I've

521
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,599
looked everywhere in my bed. I
just feel like I would have noticed it

522
00:41:57,639 --> 00:42:00,039
if I brought it down, But
what if I didn't, Okay, I

523
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:07,239
found it, Like I was so
scared that one of my fucking peers,

524
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:14,119
one of my sisters, would find
my dad pen in the sorority chapter house

525
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:21,960
somewhere and fucking report me to God
knows who. In women of discriminating taste,

526
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:28,280
Freeman states that it was often the
college members themselves who were on the

527
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:37,679
front lines of managing perceived behavioral abnormalities
among their peers. Freeman elaborates, the

528
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,599
control on the rules is more the
interaction of the women in the house,

529
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:49,360
and that becomes how to enforce certain
types of BacT these or behaviors debt you

530
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:58,239
want portrayed and limiting those that you
don't. Sobrity sisters are basically trained to

531
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:07,039
surveil each other's behave like you absolutely
should tattle on your sister because it's for

532
00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:13,480
the good of the entire chapter.
So no wonder the sorority house is so

533
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:20,280
integral in the sorority model because living
there means that you get to see which

534
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,199
sisters came home blacked out drunk,
you get to see who didn't come home

535
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:30,079
from the social last night, and
you'll be there bright and early for the

536
00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:37,559
breakfast gossip session. So basically,
living in the sorority chapter house means that

537
00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:44,480
she knows when you are sleeping,
checks happen at three am. She knows

538
00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:49,119
when you're o. You listen to
everyone's alarms. She knows if you've been

539
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:54,159
bad or good, So be good
for goodness, say today in good standing?

540
00:43:54,360 --> 00:44:00,679
Is sister A sister B sister.
I interviewed a fellow excommunicated sister who

541
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:05,840
we're going to call Erica. Erica
was a Pie five sister at the University

542
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,239
of South Carolina and lived in the
chapter house during her sophomore year. You

543
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,599
hate to see that. You hate
to see that, and you know it

544
00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:17,400
happens to the best of us,
but you hate to see that. So

545
00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:24,119
it was like big little reveal night
and I was going out with my little

546
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,199
and then I happened to like meet
with this guy. He was from Australia.

547
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,280
He was like visiting his study abroad. So you know, that just

548
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:37,079
automatically gets ya. And I was
living in the house at the time,

549
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,880
but I had a roommate, and
like the only rule that I was aware

550
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,119
of, like regarding boys in the
house is that they weren't allowed upstairs.

551
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,679
And he doesn't have anywhere to go, So we go back to my chapter

552
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,559
house. It's like three am.
So I'm not super worried about anything,

553
00:44:52,599 --> 00:44:55,440
and I don't want to disrespect my
roommate. So we end up like cooking

554
00:44:55,519 --> 00:45:02,400
up on the couch downstairs, and
then like through that door, my VP

555
00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:07,800
of Housing walks in and then gets
like the housing mom, like the old

556
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,239
lady that lives there, and they
come and are like, yeah, he

557
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,599
has to leave, like sends me
upstairs. And then I wake up the

558
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:22,880
next morning and I walked downstairs and
like I haven't told anyone anything, and

559
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,360
like the VP of Housing was like
liceling the couch in front of everyone,

560
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,159
and like everyone was laughing, like
you had to eat every meal there.

561
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:36,119
And this was like Thursday night and
Friday morning was brunch, so everyone was

562
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:38,519
there. I felt like people were
laughing at me, like I was wearing

563
00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:44,599
like the scarlet a and I remember
just going back upstairs and kind of hiding.

564
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:52,000
I get an email that week and
the subject is all caps and it's

565
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:58,000
like urgent action required. So I'm
scared shitless. It says, Hey,

566
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:02,800
I'm emailing you to request a meeting
between the Executive Council and Alumni Advisory Committee

567
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,880
and you this is a standards issue
we would like to address. We will

568
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:15,239
discuss the specific topic of the meeting
at the meeting where's the meeting. It's

569
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,400
in the chapter house. So they
section off a portion of the house,

570
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,320
which is like already super suspicious because
like people go in and out that door

571
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,440
to go to dinner, and everyone's
like, well, what is happening,

572
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,440
Like it was at five thirty pm, so dinner's five to seven. It's

573
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,719
like super uncomfortable because I'm waiting outside
in my full dress and like people are

574
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,880
coming up to me like it's dinner
time, and then I walk in and

575
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:45,000
they're basically just talking at me there
like, ah, so you violated these

576
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:49,519
rules. We're going to take it
to chapter and let your sisters decide.

577
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:53,000
Either Option A, nothing will happen. You'll be cleared of all charges.

578
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:59,719
Option B you'll get probation, and
then option C you'll get kicked out.

579
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:04,119
You're lucky you are not just kicking
you out, because this is very serious.

580
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:10,119
I had to prepare my own statement. I was spending more time on

581
00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:14,679
this statement than my schoolwork, like
and I ended up like not doing well

582
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:19,920
in school that semester at all.
Where was this vote? It was like

583
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,079
in this random school building where we
had our chapters, Like it was an

584
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:30,639
auditorium. You give your speech,
and then they give their speech, and

585
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:35,639
then you can have three pros and
three cons. So this is like their

586
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:40,199
little lingo in how they rebuttle each
other. Yeah, and its mind you

587
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:45,000
in front of the whole entire chapter. So anyone when you're talking, anyone

588
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,880
could just say con. No,
you're supposed to prepare people. So my

589
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:52,760
cons, like I specifically picked my
big and my two littles, like people

590
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,599
on my team, like sharing why
I should be kept in the sorority.

591
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,880
So you have the three cons,
and then do they have the three pros.

592
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:06,639
Yeah, and they prepare the exact
members to be the people who are

593
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,039
giving the pros. But my big
didn't show up, she had to go

594
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:13,920
to work, and then my little
didn't show up. One of them didn't,

595
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,559
and then the other one, like
she agreed to it, and then

596
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:22,320
come chapter like I guess after she
heard the exact speak, like she was

597
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,880
so nervous about saying anything because she
wanted to run for office that she just

598
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,760
didn't say anything. So it's like
super embarrassing that I didn't have anyone to

599
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:39,920
speak for me. Theirschfield was how
embarrassing it is to be associated with someone

600
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:46,480
like me who everyone knows did this
thing. It makes us look really bad.

601
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,840
People aren't going to want to join
if we have people like you.

602
00:48:51,079 --> 00:48:57,199
Here's what happened this night. We
walked in with her naked on the couch

603
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:04,119
with a random boy, and we
can only assume what happened. But that

604
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,119
is so foul to do that on
our couch. And so then you had

605
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:12,480
to respond to that. Yeah,
and I had to stand up in front

606
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,199
of all of them and like begged
them to forgive me. And that's like

607
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:20,880
the long ass statement I prepared,
like why I should be kept in the

608
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,280
chapter. I was like on the
VP of housing, I raised the most

609
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:29,400
money for like the Reblay for Life. I was the captain. I won

610
00:49:29,559 --> 00:49:32,679
like a sincere Friendship award, like
I do all these things for the chapter,

611
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,280
and like I made a mistake,
but like I'm sorry about it,

612
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,360
like it won't happen again. I
didn't really know that this was a rule.

613
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:46,599
And then the person who rebottled it
their pro was one of my good

614
00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:51,079
friends, which she was on the
exact board, and she was like,

615
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:57,559
this is not what the Southern woman
is supposed to do. What question?

616
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:00,079
Yeah, what was she from the
South? No, she was from New

617
00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:07,639
York. But the votes ended up
being thirty people voted for all charges to

618
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:12,880
be dropped, one hundred and fifty
people voted for probation, and then like

619
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,280
thirty people voted for me to get
kicked out, which is like, okay,

620
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:21,039
thirty of my sisters like want me
gone, Like like you went to

621
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:25,239
trial. Yeah, I was on
trial for being slot in their eyes?

622
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:34,079
Did the vote happen right at the
meeting, Yeah, it happened at the

623
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:37,280
meeting, but I didn't get the
results because everyone just like writes down on

624
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,480
a piece of paper. Then I
think they called me with the results and

625
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:45,519
they sent me my terms of probation
in an email. It says, Hi,

626
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:51,800
after taking your concerns into consideration and
discussing with the AAC, the Alumni

627
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,760
Advisory Council, the terms of your
probation have been updated to extend over one

628
00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:00,719
term sixteen weeks, split over this
semester and next. This is in line

629
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:07,280
with the automatic consequences timeline in our
by laws for these violations, so I

630
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:12,280
would have had a whole year of
paying my dues like doing these stupid ass

631
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:19,280
terms fulfill all Chapter and fraternity requirements, including financial obligations, hold no chapter

632
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,840
office, have no voice nor vote
in chapter meeting, but shall be expected

633
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:29,079
to provide information if called atlas for
badge in the custody of the chapter president.

634
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,960
The member will be put on social
restriction, which includes not being able

635
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:37,280
to attend social events during the period
of probation. Go to all required events.

636
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:42,920
The member will repeat the mentoring workshop
under the one on one direction of

637
00:51:43,039 --> 00:51:46,199
the new Member Court, and you'll
have a biweekly meeting with the Vice President

638
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,320
to monitor progress. And like I
knew I was dropping at this point,

639
00:51:51,440 --> 00:52:07,880
like I did not have time for
this ship snapped. Just because we're jeeds

640
00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:12,000
doesn't mean that we don't deserve cute
merch. And let me tell you,

641
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,599
Snapped merch is way cuter than anything
I ever got in my big little basket.

642
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,880
I'm so excited for you all to
see the new merch for the season.

643
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:28,239
It's up now, all new designs, all new products. We even

644
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,559
have a sticker sheet where one of
the stickers is a Sincere Friendship Award,

645
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,920
so you too could have your own
since your Friendship Award. And when in

646
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,400
doubt, you know, if you're
ever sent to trial, just say,

647
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,920
but I got a Sincere Friendship award, and you know we all deserve that.

648
00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:52,159
So go to Snap the podcast dot
com, click on the shop Snap

649
00:52:52,280 --> 00:53:00,280
section and grab your very own Sincere
Friendship Award sticker Snapped. Do you ever

650
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:07,760
wonder if your sorority was a cult? SAE? I went down a huge

651
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:12,159
rabbit hole trying to answer this question, and along the way I found Terror

652
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:17,320
Love and Brainwashing by cult survivor and
expert Alexandra Stein. Based on the amount

653
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:22,159
of times I mentioned the book in
this podcast, you already know how eye

654
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:27,079
opening it is, but I'm just
sharing little tidbits and to truly answer the

655
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:31,119
cult question, you got to hear
it from the expert herself. We're partnering

656
00:53:31,159 --> 00:53:37,079
with Audible to offer you a free
thirty day Audible trial. This means that

657
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:43,280
for thirty days, you'll have access
to thousands of audiobooks, including Terror Love

658
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,159
and Brainwashing. Snapped has allowed me
to share my story and has allowed so

659
00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:52,559
many others to now share theirs.
To keep supporting Snapped and storytelling of all

660
00:53:52,679 --> 00:54:00,800
kinds, visit Audible trial dot com, slash snapped that's Audible trial dot com

661
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:19,119
slash sna Ppe d snapped. How
can you create trusting relationships? With your

662
00:54:19,159 --> 00:54:27,760
sisters when all those sisters are Sorority
World's version of a mandated reporter, Like,

663
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:35,079
I personally find it scary that the
sisters that you're disclosing your trauma too

664
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,880
and the trauma Bonding Circle are the
same sisters you are voting on if you

665
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:45,480
should be kept in the chapter or
not. The sorority positions themselves as this

666
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:54,639
safe space, but they're the ones
actually causing us to feel unsafe, whether

667
00:54:54,679 --> 00:55:00,719
you're an older girl or a younger
girl. If you go again the white

668
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:06,440
lady like ideal, if you become
a liability, you might get sent to

669
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:15,119
standards or jay board or whatever made
up name they liked to use. Kady

670
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:23,039
Julie explained how standards worked in her
chapter, Standards was an exact member and

671
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,519
they had a committee of their own, like PR would fall under them,

672
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:31,880
so we had like our PR manager
was under standards. Standards would also check

673
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,639
pin attire, so when we wore
our pin, you couldn't wear something that

674
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,239
was considered slutty or out of taste
in it, and so like it was

675
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:45,760
written our bilaws like after November three, you must wear stockings with skirts until

676
00:55:45,159 --> 00:55:49,760
March fourth, and so if you
weren't wearing stockings with a skirt, and

677
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,679
you wore your pin on a dress, then you would get sent to standards

678
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:58,480
or Standards would stop you in the
hallway of the house and say go change.

679
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:06,079
Harper from JMU told me that in
her chapter, Standards was known as

680
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:13,880
Tall Honor. They had a council
of people that were in charge of reprimanding

681
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,039
you if you did something wrong.
There's a group of probably eight girls and

682
00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:21,719
a sorority. You were just on
Ta Honor. They didn't like me because

683
00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:28,000
I was not like a serious,
die hard member. Harper got called into

684
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:36,599
Tat Honor for allegedly trying to get
alcohol during a sisterhood retreat. God forbid.

685
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:42,280
So I got called to Tat Honor
for the retreat because they said that

686
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,199
I was trying to get alcohol for
the other girls when I didn't have a

687
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,880
car. I rode in the backseat
of someone's car, like I didn't have

688
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,840
any way of getting in where they
just wanted to pin something on me.

689
00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:58,280
So I had to go to Ta
Honor. And so I was like,

690
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,559
oh, it was just a joke, you know, we were just joking

691
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:06,960
around about having alcohol. And they're
like, well, that's a really serious

692
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,400
offense, like we don't take that
lightly. And I'm like, okay,

693
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:14,920
whenever, so I leave to I
got called back three times the first time.

694
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,079
Thing I didn't do. I got
called back the first time because this

695
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:23,119
girl who didn't like me made up
this story about how I had punched a

696
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:28,280
window in a frat house, that
i'd punched a window open, that I

697
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,599
had beaten up a fract guy,
and that I was distributing cocaine. And

698
00:57:32,639 --> 00:57:37,480
so I went in to talk honor, and so they're like, well,

699
00:57:37,519 --> 00:57:40,320
you know, we heard that you
broke a window and beat up a frat

700
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:45,000
member, and you know you were
talking about getting drugs to people. And

701
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:47,159
I go, where's the proof.
Where's your proof? I said, I

702
00:57:47,159 --> 00:57:51,320
think if I broke a window,
I would have some injuries on my hands.

703
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,599
Second of all, I don't even
go to frat mixers anymore. And

704
00:57:54,719 --> 00:57:58,639
do you think that I have the
strength to beat up a grown man?

705
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,679
That's funny. And I go,
you know what, this is the third

706
00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:07,159
time you have called me into ta
honor with absolutely no evidence, and at

707
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:12,320
this point it's botn So I'm not
going to deal with it anymore. And

708
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:15,920
next time you call me back.
You better have cold tart truth. I

709
00:58:16,039 --> 00:58:22,239
never got called in again. Yeah, that shit was ridiculous. In one

710
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:28,559
of my interviews, the interview we
described standards as a form of kangaroo court.

711
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:34,440
I didn't know what this was,
but she explained. Kangaroo court is

712
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:40,199
an unofficial kind of makeshift court in
which you're accused and tried by the group

713
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:45,000
without like an actual civil trial.
It's instead of instead of there being a

714
00:58:45,039 --> 00:58:50,400
whole process of looking for evidence and
defending your case or you know, a

715
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:54,239
court of law, it's we have
decided you did this and we're going to

716
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:59,119
punish you for it. It's like
when a kind of a group of people

717
00:58:59,159 --> 00:59:05,039
come together and try you to their
standards. You rarely get a chance to

718
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:07,679
defend yourself, but even if you
do, you're guilty either way. It's

719
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:13,400
sort of an excuse to gang up
on you. And this is a term

720
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:17,000
that's been coins just like because it's
happened a lot. Yeah, this is

721
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:22,039
a This term comes from the notion
of justice proceeding by leaps, like a

722
00:59:22,119 --> 00:59:28,199
kangaroo jumping over evidence that would be
in favor of the defendant. So it's

723
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:32,960
basically a way of not giving the
person a fair shake and saying we're going

724
00:59:34,039 --> 00:59:38,039
to try you and punish you so
you lose either way. Immediately, I

725
00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:45,239
think to myself that Kirston was sent
to kangaroo Court. We met Kirston in

726
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:50,199
the season two recruitment special but Quick
Refresh. Kirsten was a Zeta at cal

727
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,880
State Long Beach from twenty fifteen to
twenty seventeen. During her time at Zeta,

728
00:59:54,119 --> 00:59:59,840
Kirsten became the vice president of the
chapter. I became a figurehead.

729
01:00:00,039 --> 01:00:01,440
And if you know me, I'm
a big, like jeans and T shirt

730
01:00:01,519 --> 01:00:05,280
kind of girl, Like I don't
see a point in going to class with

731
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,199
makeup on. And I started being
told that, like you're a representative,

732
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:13,239
you need to start playing a part. You need to start looking the role.

733
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,760
And I started of using diet pills
because I'm a little bit chalky,

734
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:22,400
and that wasn't what the ideal look
was. People would just tell me I'm

735
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,960
doing a shit job, like I
don't belong here, And every time my

736
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,960
phone went off, I would get
a pit in my stomach because it was

737
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,480
just going to be another person telling
me that I fucking suck. They would

738
01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:37,440
tell me that I was dragging the
organization down to my level. I'm now

739
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:45,599
going to explain why Kirston was sent
to standards. So Kirsten's chapter had a

740
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:52,000
tradition where they would steal a frat
guy's pledge book and then give it back

741
01:00:52,039 --> 01:00:54,719
to them. A pledge book is
something that the fraternity men have to carry

742
01:00:54,719 --> 01:00:59,079
around with them for their hazing.
But we would just see dudes come into

743
01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:02,880
the chapter meeting every week and they
would like sing a stupid song or like

744
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:08,079
profess their love, or like bring
a dozen roses to someone who stole their

745
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:12,679
pledge book. So it was in
front of all the advisors. It wasn't

746
01:01:12,719 --> 01:01:15,320
like a secret thing. Yeah,
and then when I ended, it became

747
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:22,559
a problem. So, just like
all the other sisters, Kirston participated in

748
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:27,039
this sorority tradition by taking a pledge
book that a frat guy left at their

749
01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:32,039
philanthropy event. She didn't make him
sing her song, she didn't make him

750
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:37,679
go get flowers for her. She
just took it and then a few days

751
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,559
later she gave it back. Well, like, I didn't really think much

752
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:44,880
of it, and like I talked
about it in my group chat. They

753
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:45,920
were like, you didn't Hazem did
you, and I was like, fuck

754
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:52,360
no. So one of Kirston's sorority
sisters then took it upon herself to report

755
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:59,840
Kirston to the judicial board for hazing. She reported me to judicial for that,

756
01:02:00,119 --> 01:02:02,480
and that was her quote unquote evidence
that I had hated somebody, but

757
01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:07,159
you said fuck no exactly, and
I had witness too, like somebody came

758
01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:10,880
with me to drop it off and
we were both like that that didn't happen.

759
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:15,719
And so my roommates a president,
she had to sign off on the

760
01:02:15,719 --> 01:02:20,960
paperwork to like send me to judicial, and she did it without thinking twice.

761
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,559
They called it like a counsel of
love. That was the colloquial where

762
01:02:23,559 --> 01:02:25,800
they were like, we're not trying
to punish you, We're trying to set

763
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:32,440
you on the right path. The
judicial chair she texted me and she's like

764
01:02:32,679 --> 01:02:36,360
can I drive you home? And
I was like not really, like I

765
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:37,840
take the bus, like you you
don't need to pick me up, and

766
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,000
she's like I'll be at the bus
stop in fifteen minutes, like meet me

767
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:45,800
in my car. And she gave
me this manilla envelope and she basically like

768
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:51,760
served me. And so it was
a gap between when I got served and

769
01:02:52,079 --> 01:02:54,400
when I had the trial, and
so in the gap, the two weeks

770
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:58,360
gap, I kept trying to tell
myself, like they don't have any evidence.

771
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,920
I have a witness, But I
did eat for two weeks. I

772
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:06,239
maybe lost like five pounds. If
self harm is triggering for you and you'd

773
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:12,880
like to avoid this content, please
skip the next thirty five seconds. On

774
01:03:13,239 --> 01:03:15,280
the day before, I was like
crying myself to sleep. My roommate like

775
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:21,880
he didn't really say anything, and
I left the room and I went to

776
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,000
go cut. I took a knife
out of the block, like a chopping

777
01:03:25,159 --> 01:03:28,519
cooking knife. I don't I don't
cook. I don't know what's called.

778
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:31,599
And I sat on a couch and
I like rolled my sleeves up and like

779
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,719
I was like about to make the
first notch, and like my roommate came

780
01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:38,400
out and so like I shoved the
knife under it, like my pillow on

781
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,519
the couch, and she's like,
what's wrong? Heirston, like, which

782
01:03:42,519 --> 01:03:45,039
I know what she'd fucking know.
And I was like, I'm really nervous,

783
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:50,960
like I didn't do this, and
like they're trying to punish me for

784
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,599
doing my best, Like they're punishing
me for not listening to them. I

785
01:03:54,639 --> 01:04:00,719
don't deserve this, like I have
dedicated my whole like life this at this

786
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,159
point, like I haven't seen my
family in months. I don't know what

787
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,559
to do. I don't know how
else to prove my devotion of this fucking

788
01:04:06,679 --> 01:04:10,920
cult. And she looked me in
the eyes and she moved over. She

789
01:04:11,079 --> 01:04:13,880
sat next to me, and she
was like holding my hand. I remember

790
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,760
her words perfectly. She's like,
we need to address the elephant in the

791
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,440
room, Kirsten, and I'm like, what elephant in the room. And

792
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:24,400
she's like, I don't believe you. So I'm already like like like suicidal

793
01:04:24,719 --> 01:04:28,559
because there's no more of myself that
I can give, There's nothing left anymore.

794
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,679
And she's like, well, I
want to believe you, but I

795
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:33,599
just don't. So walk me through
what happened again, Like I walked her

796
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:36,360
through what happened, and she's like, Okay, I'll stand up for you

797
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:45,039
tomorrow at your child. So I
went to my trial and it was help

798
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:47,760
on our glage. They asked me
to explain the evidence, and so I

799
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,960
explained it to him and I was
like, they asked me if I hazed

800
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,760
him, and I said, fuck
no, like, what more do you

801
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:57,119
want me to say? My roommate, the president like ended up standing up

802
01:04:57,119 --> 01:04:59,519
for me, and she's like,
I shouldn't have like my newspapers, like

803
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:02,000
I believe my best friend, and
so I was feeling good about it,

804
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,360
but I knew in the back of
my head, I'm like, they don't

805
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:12,000
like me, and they're gonna want
to make an example of me. And

806
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:18,280
so they found me guilty. They
banned me from whatever social is that night,

807
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,840
and then they banned me from the
formal and so the situation with the

808
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:27,800
mixer that night was our social chair. She told me that the theme of

809
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:32,400
the party was poor people. It
was poor people, and I want to

810
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,599
believe that that wasn't what she meant, and so I was like, well,

811
01:05:35,639 --> 01:05:40,159
tell me more about this theme and
she's like, well, it'll be

812
01:05:40,239 --> 01:05:44,079
fun, like people can dress up
like blue collar workers, they could dress

813
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:46,000
up like hoboes, like whatever,
like it's fun. I went over her

814
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:48,280
head and asked her advisor. I
was like, did you approve of this?

815
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:54,320
And she's like fuck no. So
they obviously like said you can't have

816
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:58,639
a poor people theme party, which
rightfully, so well, my punishment was

817
01:05:58,679 --> 01:06:03,960
not going to that social but they
changed the theme to ten minutes before the

818
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:09,480
porn of y'all. We should have
ended this episode the second she said,

819
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:15,519
poor people party, But alas,
we will be ending this episode here,

820
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:26,559
Snappers, hide your weed now because
we are not in good standing. I

821
01:06:26,639 --> 01:06:30,639
know we're already forbidden from speaking at
chapter, but we can't get kicked out

822
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:36,079
yet. There are seven episodes left
in season three, and the Patriarchy Police

823
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:43,000
are roaming frat Row day and night. So please please join me as we

824
01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:48,920
pray to our founders, Martha Kade, Lord Jeus Christ. Our next episode

825
01:06:49,679 --> 01:07:00,320
will be so not Alpha Fi Snapped. If you're feeling ready to listen to

826
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:06,159
next week's episode, I got you, join the Snapped Patreon at the Dismantler

827
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:13,960
level and you'll get exclusive access to
next week's episode through our dismantler only podcast

828
01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:25,559
feed. Become a dismantler today at
patreon dot com slash Snapped. This episode

829
01:07:25,679 --> 01:07:30,000
was written, recorded, produced,
and edited by myself, Lucy Taylor,

830
01:07:34,639 --> 01:07:44,800
Production supervisor, Megan Thompson, story
editor, Rosa Poio, audio engineer Kneele

831
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:49,280
dot LEA special thank you to Margaret
Freeman, whose work you can find at

832
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:55,199
Margaret L. Freeman dot com.
For more information about this episode, check

833
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:59,599
us out on snaps the podcast dot
com, and don't forget to follow us

834
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:08,360
on Instagram and TikTok at Snaps the
Podcast. Thank you so much for listening,

835
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:15,280
and we'll see you next Wednesday.
H