WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:31.960 Welcome to the UFO Thinktank Craigier with your host Alejandro Rohan. It is I 2 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:40.359 Alejandro, thank you so much for being with me here again. And well 3 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.200 I've got some news for you, of course, uh some of it you 4 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:49.920 already know, and that is that I have changed the name back to UFO 5 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:58.960 Think Tank Radio. Some good and some some uh some different. So the 6 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.799 good news is is course that's UPO Think Tank again. It's independent and I'm 7 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.280 doing my own thing once again. The bad news is, and this will 8 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:11.719 be a bummer for some of you, Jason will not be joining us, 9 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:17.040 at least in the foreseeable future. I really really hope he does once again, 10 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:22.040 because I love the guy just like you guys do. And don't worry, 11 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:29.120 we're still buddies. But this show is independent of Open Minds now, 12 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:34.000 so it's something totally separate, and that he is still working for Open Minds, 13 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:37.480 and at least we're now we're going to not be able to work out 14 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:41.400 him being on the show. So I know, I know, it's a 15 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:47.079 bummer. I'm really bummed too. But the show will go on and we'll 16 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:51.560 continue to bring you UFO news and we'll continue to bring you excellent guests, 17 00:01:51.680 --> 00:02:00.599 including our magnificent guests for this week, who is none of others, then 18 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:10.240 mister Kevin Randall. And this is exciting because Kevin Randall, as you may 19 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:19.479 or may not know, Kevin Randall, is one of the main Roswell investigators. 20 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.639 So he's been doing Roswell investigation for quite some time. Of course, 21 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:27.719 we've had Tom Carey and Don Schmidt on the show. He used to be 22 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.960 partners with Don Schmidt in fact, and then he went off. I think 23 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:36.879 he did another two in Iraq and then came back and started doing some more 24 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:43.840 that's right in Iraq. Actually, Kevin Randall has had a long career in 25 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:49.199 the army. He's retired now as a lieutenant colonel. He served in Vietnam 26 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.479 as a helicopter pilot. In Iraq, he was a battalion intelligence officer, 27 00:02:54.319 --> 00:03:00.520 and so he's a busy fellow. In fact, he studied in journal originally. 28 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:07.680 He's also got a master's and a PhD in psychology, and he's got 29 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:13.439 a master's in military studies. But he really went on to be more of 30 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.199 a journalist and author. So he's written sci fi. He's written a lot 31 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:23.520 of different stuff and he's been into UFOs for a while, and we're going 32 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.840 to talk to him about his origin stories. I've talked about this before. 33 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.439 I love to talk to people about, you know, how they got started 34 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:36.479 in the UFO field. I call it kind of an origin story because it's 35 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.919 kind of like you know, with comic book heroes, they all have their 36 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:46.759 origin stories. And we'll get into Kevin Randalls later on when we get him 37 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.319 on the show. It's just surprising to me, actually, because I haven't 38 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.800 had him on before, and he's such a great guests, such an important 39 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:59.639 person in this field and everything that I shouldn't certainly should have, and I'm 40 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.719 glad that I have now. He actually also was one of the writers of 41 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:09.719 the movie that turned into the Roswell movie. We've had Paul Davids on at 42 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:14.439 least once or twice, but Paul Davids was part of this movie and really 43 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:18.240 kind of produced it and helped put it together. But it was a work 44 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:23.959 of Kevin Randall and Don Schmidt that they took to make the movie, and 45 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:29.240 they actually got to be on the set and consultants. If you're not aware, 46 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.360 this is a movie that came out in the nineties and it starred Kyle 47 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:39.120 McLaughlin and Martin Sheen, some very famous people. So that's really exciting. 48 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.439 So we'll talk to him about that whole experience coming up here in a little 49 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:50.240 while. However, before that, as always, it's UFOs and the news. 50 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:55.439 A lot of news this week. There's been a lot going on, 51 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:02.160 so we have a whole lot to talk about big stories. But this one 52 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:09.000 is one I was particularly excited about, and that is that the Mars Viking 53 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:17.279 robots found life on ours. But this is not like the new rovers they 54 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:27.639 have out there. This is the Viking robots which were in You know, 55 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:31.040 this was a mission that happened in the seventies, so this data is thirty 56 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:38.519 six years old. So essentially, here's what happens. They there's some scientists 57 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:44.519 took this data from the Landers in the seventies and they looked at it again. 58 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.240 The data in the past was kind of written off. They looked at 59 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.399 it and thought, well, this could be a sign of life, maybe 60 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:57.360 not, but it was eventually written off. Well, some scientists have taken 61 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.759 a new look and they're saying, hey, wait a second here, this 62 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:08.680 does, in their opinions, show science of life, and this is you 63 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:12.560 know it's above my heav's chemistry and all this stuff, and maybe some of 64 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.399 you understand it a little more, but essentially that they did find evidence of 65 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:26.079 some bacteria. So here we are again with the possibility of the discovery of 66 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:31.959 life in relations to Mars. What's interesting here is that these scientists are pretty 67 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:41.680 dang confident in their findings. But this news has yet to really make a 68 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:46.560 real big deal. It's gotten kind of a round and maybe we'll see a 69 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:54.600 lot more of it this week. It was released by Discovering News, and 70 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:57.199 this is just a brand new story. I mean, this just came out 71 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.240 just Thursday, so hopefully we'll see some more about it. But it's looking 72 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:09.639 like the Viking lander could have found life on Mars. Now that would be, 73 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.079 of course, pretty dang amazing, and I can't wait to hear more 74 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:21.639 about it. But how interesting will it be if you know, finally we 75 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:30.439 have the answer that it indeed, not only is life abundant in the Solar 76 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.399 System, but it's on the very next planet out there. Of course, 77 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.279 not the closest. I think Venus is closer, but it's our next door 78 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:46.439 neighbor, for goodness sakes, So pretty amazing news. I'm really looking forward 79 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:54.800 to that more amazing news. Russia and Siberia are in the news again with 80 00:07:54.959 --> 00:08:01.360 another UFO landing possible UFO landing. Some finesses have described a bright, glowing 81 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:09.959 light that fell from the sky and fell somewhere in Siberia. Nobody's quite sure 82 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:15.519 what this was. This was reported on Friday and they're still looking into it. 83 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:18.079 Of course, we've seen some other things. Not too long ago, 84 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:22.279 there was something tracked by the military. It turned out to be a bull 85 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:30.360 eyed essentially just an asteroid. Another object was found recently and that seemed to 86 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.840 be some part of a rocket, but this one is still as of yet 87 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:43.000 unknown, so search teams are out there and hopefully we'll have some news soon. 88 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:48.159 But it is pretty interesting that we have yet another possible crash of something. 89 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:56.600 And that's not all. Red lights in Texas are still a mystery. 90 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.840 So we talked about this, i think last week, where there were some 91 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:11.440 flickering globes of light in the city. Now officials are saying that this is 92 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:18.440 probably a hoax, so we're not sure about this one, but they're still 93 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.840 looking into it. But that's still going on and that's made the news more 94 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:31.720 interesting. However is this one. This is a possible UFO crash, And 95 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:37.320 this one's really strange. This was reported on Thursday, and this was reported 96 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:45.519 by witness and one of those witnesses a second witness who was a police officer. 97 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:54.120 So what they say they saw was some huge green, glowing object the 98 00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:00.639 size of a whale, falling from the sky and crashing into band Tom Lake 99 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.039 in Connecticut. So I mean, of course it would have made a splash, 100 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.720 and of course if we get to see more news about it, I'm 101 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:15.080 sure they're going to use that headline UFO makes a splash in Connecticut. Anyway, 102 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.600 people are reporting this giant object falling from the sky and landing in the 103 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.639 lake. There have been people looking for it and no one has found anything 104 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.120 yet, but there are several writtennesses, including the police officers. So really 105 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:35.000 interesting case. They're looking for it, but no one's quite found it yet. 106 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:41.000 So kind of weird, very weird one they're in Connecticut. I'm sure 107 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:48.200 we're going to hear a lot more about that. More news. Jets in 108 00:10:48.360 --> 00:11:01.320 England making sonic booms chasing the UFO. Maybe The Sun just reported that two 109 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:11.480 RAF Royal Air Force typhoon jets flew quickly across several counties, making sonic booms, 110 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:15.960 waking people up and freaking them out, and witnesses have said they saw 111 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.399 them chasing and checking out a UFO and this UFO was sock shaped, they 112 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:28.000 say, because it's there's actually a picture in the sun and I guess it's 113 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.879 kind of sock shaped. It really kind of looks like a cloud up in 114 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.279 the sky and you can see this. But witnesses said they saw this scene 115 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.519 flying around, so that was the news. Well of official spokes people have 116 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:43.919 come out and said that when these planes returned, they did not report any 117 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.639 UFOs and that in fact, the reason why they were flying around is that 118 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:58.480 there was a civilian helicopter who said that who accidentally issued a hijacked meet may 119 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:03.480 day. So that's kind of weird. You know, I don't know how 120 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.919 accidentally. You know, you send out a mayde saying a mayda may day 121 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.559 were being hijacked, We're being hijacked, and then oh, sorry, ar 122 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:18.799 mistake. I think you would know if you were being hijacked. That's just 123 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.120 me, but especially on a helicopter. You only have like five people in 124 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.639 a helicopter, so you pretty much know who your guests are. I guess 125 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:35.000 it. Maybe someone pulled out a gun and pulled the trigger. They called 126 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.000 the hijack line, and it turned out that the gun was actually a lighter 127 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:45.240 and they were only lighting up their cigar. One possibility. I don't know. 128 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:50.240 Hopefully we'll hear some more about this, because I really do not understand 129 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:58.799 how you can accidentally issue a hijack. May day anyway, in response to 130 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:05.080 the made a these two jets little cross several countings in England, causing sonic 131 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:11.440 booms, freaking everybody out. Some people said they saw them chasing around this 132 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.879 UFO that someone somehow got a picture from, and it doesn't really say where 133 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:20.559 this picture comes from, so I don't know much about that. But they 134 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:26.679 also disturbed some birds, I guess, some rare birds, and they got 135 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:33.559 a little scolded for flying above these osprey nests, which they should not have 136 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.679 done because they may I guess, caused the birds to abandon the nests. 137 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:43.360 And then these poor eggs are not hatched, so they got a goold scolding 138 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:50.639 and they bloody well better not do that again. Anyway. Moving on other 139 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:56.960 news that has made a lot of excitement, I guess I should say this 140 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.519 week, I can't remember a way to talk about this one either, you 141 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:03.080 know, without my good buddy, I can't remember what we talked about last 142 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.840 week. But you know what, it's okay to cover things a couple times. 143 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.360 And actually I know we didn't talk about this. And that is mister 144 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:15.200 Lee Spiegel of the Huffington Post, good buddy of ours. He wrote about 145 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.759 this and added to it. And that's UFO video from South Korea. It's 146 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.799 a very interesting video. You see this little white thing kind of floating along 147 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:30.600 and then zips away. Benjamin Radford, I believe his name is from Discovery. 148 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.960 He writes for Little Life's Little Mysteries, and he's kind of always debunking 149 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:39.399 stuff. But he says he thinks it might have been a water droplet on 150 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.639 the window of the plane that kind of was scooting along and then took off 151 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:48.879 up the window. And this guy video taped it and it looked like it 152 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:54.360 was an object that is separate from the plane. That's kind of a stretch. 153 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:56.320 If you look at the video, you know, this thing does seem 154 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.519 to be separate from the plane. It seems to be further away. It 155 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.360 is very interesting. We did talk about this last week because I remember mentioning 156 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:09.480 that it was suspicious, also because this YouTube account came up out of nowhere 157 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.720 just for this video. But it's a very interesting video, and I guess 158 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.879 the person who took it is still anonymous, but you're gonna have to take 159 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.960 a look at it yourself and go to the Huffington Post. But one thing 160 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.919 that Leaspiegel did which is really cool is that he interviewed David McDonald, the 161 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.240 guy who runs mouffon about this. He's a pilot himself, which just kind 162 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.360 of see, you know, lots of people are seeing things. He also 163 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:43.720 talked to Richard Haynes, who runs the National Aviation Reporting Center on anomalist phenomena, 164 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:52.240 and Richard Haynes as a scientist who started studying UFOs and a pilot and 165 00:15:52.279 --> 00:16:00.000 mainly they're looking for the effects on pilots. And he also interviewed FA official, 166 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.399 former FA official, John Callahan, And you might have seen this gentleman 167 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:10.919 on the Disclosure Project because he talked about how when he was on the FAA, 168 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.879 there was this famous incident in nineteen eighty six where a Japanese airline had 169 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:21.960 seen the UFO and reported that and Actually this made big news back in eighty 170 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:26.000 six. That's way before my time, but not Les Spiegels. Sorry Lee, 171 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:33.440 But anyway, this made big news. John Callahan worked for the FA. 172 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.559 He was an upper level, higher level official. He says that Reagan's 173 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.840 Science Advisory Board, people from his board and others came to look at some 174 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.240 of their radar data because they caught this thing on radar. They took the 175 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.080 radar data and told Callahan not to say anything. Well, what they didn't 176 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.679 know is Callahan had his own copies of this radar data that he has to 177 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:59.840 this day, and he showed it at the Disclosure Project in Washington, DC 178 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:07.200 in two thousand and one, the press conference they had, and he's been 179 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.319 on a couple of television shows talking about that. But Lis Spiegel was also 180 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.400 talking about pilots, and you know, Callahan plays into this idea, is 181 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:22.720 that pilots often do not report UFOs because they're in fear of being ridiculed. 182 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:27.559 And I have a friend who that happened to. You know, they actually 183 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.119 questioned his sanity and didn't let him fly for a while because he was into 184 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.200 UFOs. So that's the point that Haynes and these others are making is that, 185 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:41.279 you know, pilots don't like to report this sort of thing. So 186 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.119 it's a great story that you'll have to check out, a long story with 187 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:51.440 some really good history and some great interviews by Lee Spiegel. So that's all 188 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:56.000 on the South Korean UFO siting. Very interesting video. Check it out and 189 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:03.920 see what you think. Also on the Huffington Post, our good friend Leslie 190 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:08.440 Kine has written a new blog, and hers is an update on the Chilean 191 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:14.440 UFO videos. She calls it getting the bugs Out, and essentially what she's 192 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:19.799 saying is that Benjamin Radford here again. Benjamin Radford interesting enough, you know, 193 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:26.559 is really he's following the UFO news out there pretty closely, because especially 194 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:32.400 it teams Flee Spiegel's work, because whenever a story is written about her makes 195 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.720 the news, Radford is out there kind of debunking it or looking for alternative 196 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:44.480 answers prosaic answers as to what it may be in the video. And for 197 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.680 the Chilean videos, which we talked about, of course we made a big 198 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:52.240 deal out of them because the UFO Congress is really where the video was shown 199 00:18:52.359 --> 00:19:00.960 first, and that was by General Ricardo Bermudez, who's director of Chili's Investigation 200 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:06.319 Group, an official group that's part of their FAA. He showed that video 201 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:11.519 at the Congress, and you know, this is a video where he told 202 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.039 me backstage when we're setting up for it, he said, you know, 203 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.680 this is the most amazing video. This video convinced me that UFOs are real. 204 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.759 Prior to that, he said, you know, maybe they were mistaken 205 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:26.880 identity, but anyway, you know, Benjamin Radford said, what was probably 206 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:34.160 seen in the videos is bugs. But he was referring to the videos that 207 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:41.279 the Huffington Post posted. The Huffington Post posted three videos from one individual. 208 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:48.759 What he neglected to add to the story, which was in actually my Huffington 209 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.480 Post story. But that's about it. I don't think Leslie Kane wrote about 210 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.640 it. So to Benjamin Radford's defense, he might not known about it unless 211 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:02.000 he went to SAFA site and actually did some research, or got his talk 212 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.279 at the Congress and did some research. That way, he would have known 213 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:10.319 that there were actually seven videos in total, seven different witnesses. So it 214 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.160 wasn't all this one witness who took this video. So if it was this 215 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.480 one person taking the video, bugs might play a role, he said, 216 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.839 maybe even bees that were in the area. So if you know, this 217 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:27.640 guy's taking a video all day long and there's bees flying around, that would 218 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:33.960 be a possibility. But there's actually several different videos from different angles of these 219 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:41.400 objects, and the videos are similar. With these what looks like a metallic 220 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.359 object often to this since you know, moving at extreme speeds. In fact, 221 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:51.759 there are astronomers estimated those things moving at thousands of miles an hour, 222 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.079 and there are astronomers who are skeptics and don't believe in UFOs. Are the 223 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.680 ones who looked at this and said, wow, you know this is now 224 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.920 a folks. These are some metallic objects zooming around. So this is some 225 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:11.279 weird stuff going on here. You know, astronomers don't mistake bugs. I 226 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.680 don't think I had. That would be pretty satisfaated anyway, Leslie Kane is 227 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.079 making the argument that, no, my friend, mister Radford, I believe 228 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:27.000 you are wrong. Those aren't bugs. Those are UFOs. So well, 229 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.640 we'll see if Radford has a reply to this, but I hope he does 230 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:34.960 because I'd like to see what he has to say. Mister smarty pants, 231 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.680 you know what'd be interesting to get him on the show. Sometimes I've wanted 232 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.079 to speak it to him and see what kind of guy he is, because 233 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.720 I think I've said this before and I'll say it again because i'd like to 234 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:52.119 say it, but as a debunker, and you know, it's good to 235 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.000 be skeptic and skeptical. You know, I admitted I'm skeptic about a lot 236 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.000 of stuff, but that just means that I'm taking a hard look at stuff. 237 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.640 It doesn't mean I'm going to debunk everything. And I don't debunk everything. 238 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.599 Some people think I debunk a lot and I apologize, you know, 239 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.079 and I don't certainly have it right all the time, but I'm just sharing. 240 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:15.920 I gotta be honest with my audience because I love you people, and 241 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:22.599 if we're gonna continue our relationship. Strong relationships are based off of trust, 242 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.880 and you need to trust me, and you know what, I'm not gonna 243 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.039 lie to you, and you can take that to the bank. Anyhow. 244 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.079 I've always said that, you know, kind of a debunker someone who just 245 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:41.640 debunks everything and doesn't want to believe in anything. You know, history shows 246 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:47.240 these people to be the big bulls, the big suckers, the bone heads. 247 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.119 You know, when you look at and I don't even know the names 248 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.960 of these people because I don't pay attention enough, but some of these people 249 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.200 are rather famous. People said, ah, they're Right Brothers. What are 250 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.680 they crazy? You're not gonna fly up playing up in the sky or what 251 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.599 are you? Yeah, we're not buds, We're not meant to fly. 252 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.960 I don't know if they talked like that or they had a similar accent, 253 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.279 but that's a fun accent to kind of portray this sort of person. But 254 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:15.400 anyways, they're out there saying, you know, you can't do it, 255 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.640 you can't do it, you can't do it, and they look like damn 256 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.160 fools when the Right Brothers are flying over him and saying, hey, hey, 257 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.200 Bob, remember you said you could we couldn't fly. What are you 258 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:30.119 doing a fly? You're flying? It's kind of Italian. Some of these 259 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.759 guys were Italian. Actually they were, because there are lots of people to 260 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.720 Columbus, you know, saying what are you doing you can't fly to an 261 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:41.519 America? Well, there'sn't automatica And he did it. He didn't fly. 262 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.519 Actually he took a boat. Because this was a little while ago before the 263 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.200 Right Brothers. But my point being that These guys who say you can't do 264 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:56.480 something look like complete bone heads. When something is discovered that they say he 265 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.440 couldn't be discovered, When something is achieved that they say couldn't be achieved. 266 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.960 So my point being, be the hero. The hero is the guy, 267 00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:10.839 you know, the Einstein sitting back there with this wild hair saying, oh, 268 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.000 you know, we can do this and we can do that, and 269 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.240 everybody calling him a fool, and he proves it and he does it. 270 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.519 Those are the geniuses's. I got an Einstein picture right here because I love 271 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:23.039 the guy. He's a hero. So, you know, skeptics, I 272 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:29.880 want to say, be a hero, not a historic zero. You may 273 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.799 feel like a hero right now because you're like, look at these boneheads. 274 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.400 They think this is going on and there's nothing going on, and so you 275 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.039 may feel like a hero now, but you're gonna look like a damn fool 276 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.640 down the road when some of this kind of pans out to be real, 277 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:52.039 trust me, buddy. More News monolith object on Mars bump bump bum. 278 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:57.000 So this is kind of you know, what's funny is I saw the stories 279 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:03.559 about this rock on my that looks kind of like a rectangular object there's a 280 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.960 big shadow being cows. The only place I've seen this story, and I 281 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.000 follow all of the UFO stuff, you know, as I'm proving hairs, 282 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:17.960 as you all know, fairly closely. The only place I've seen this story 283 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:22.799 is in these stories where it says it's not anything weird, it's just this 284 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:29.720 rock on Mars, and people are saying that it's a giant monolith. Well, 285 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.359 who are these people? What are you talking about? They're not saying 286 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:36.079 who these people are. They're just saying, oh, these boneheads are calling 287 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:38.720 this a monolith when it's just rock, and here we're proven it to rock. 288 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.640 Who are you proven to this to? I don't know what you're talking 289 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:47.200 about. Some people just here again trying to look like they are proven everybody 290 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:51.759 wrong. Anyway, it is a very interesting picture, and I wish there 291 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.759 were more details, because no one goes into details this object. Okay, 292 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.519 sure, And I never profess to say, oh, there's a giant monolith 293 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.759 on Mars. It looks rectangular. They're saying it's pixelated, that's why it 294 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:08.200 looks rectangular. But it's casting a pretty big shadow, and they're saying this 295 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:12.440 thing actually isn't very big, even though it's got this big shadow. So 296 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:18.279 I would love to hear the stats because they should be able to determine that 297 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:23.720 with the shadow, to tell me how big this thing is, because sure 298 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:27.839 it may not be big, it may not be artificial, but it looks 299 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:33.319 pretty huge. And even if it is this big natural feature jutting up into 300 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.000 the air on Mars, I'd like to hear more about it because I like 301 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:42.039 space and I like Space News. Give me some facts here, baby, 302 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:52.640 That's all I'm saying. Another kind of silly story. It's not a silly 303 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.359 story. It's a great story out there, but they're putting a silly spin 304 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.440 on it. They're talking about Hubble Space telescope. He's a UFO. Oh 305 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.920 my gosh, Hubble UFO. And you go to these stories and there's a 306 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:11.000 picture of another galaxy. So instead of just saying Hubble space telecoachs sees another 307 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.839 galaxy, a cool looking galaxy, They ohs uf it doesn't look anything like 308 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.960 a UFO. They're trying to say that it looks like a UFO, and 309 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:23.960 they're using that the marketing spin to put UFO in their title to bring people 310 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:30.039 to their site. When you see just another picture of a galaxy. Now, 311 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.240 I'm one of those weirdos or I don't know. Many of you are 312 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.559 probably space geeky enough to say to think that every new picture of a galaxy 313 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:42.400 is beautiful and wonderful and spectacular, and this one is beautiful and wonderful and 314 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:48.720 spectacular. But I'm sure people who find galaxies pictures of galaxy is boring by 315 00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.319 now, because Hubble has a lot of them, are gonna be like, 316 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:55.319 what, it's another galaxy. Tell me something new that ain't no UFO. 317 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.440 Come on, so they're pulling your legs. That's all I'm borning you is 318 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:07.359 when you see a story on Foxnews, Space dot Com, MSNBC, all 319 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.720 of these places are saying, oh, well, Space Silico got a umbo. 320 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.680 Don't get too excited because they're just talking about you got another galaxy with 321 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.880 another boring name. By the way, NGC two six eight three is the 322 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:30.319 name of this galaxy boring? Let's call it something like, uh, I 323 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:34.319 have no idea. Here's the name, Francisco. Love it all. I'm 324 00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:38.319 seeing someone on Facebook who's on this page. His name is Francisco, the 325 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:47.079 Francisco galaxy. That's cool. Let's fly to the Francisco system. And go 326 00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:52.920 visit jose Planet. That's fun. Those are some fun names instead of boring 327 00:28:53.160 --> 00:29:00.200 NGC two six eight three. Anyway, I have blabbed long enough, my 328 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.880 friends. I apologize that it's just me blabbing away. I hope you found 329 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:11.440 it interesting. But what you will find interesting is what's coming up, and 330 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:17.640 that is my interview with Kevin Randall. All right, I am super excited 331 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:19.640 to have, for some reason, for the first time on the show. 332 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.160 I guess we just get so busy. It's I've been really dying to have 333 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:29.680 you on the show since the Roswell event, but we finally have Kevin Randall. 334 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:33.559 Hello, how are you? I am fine, And I blame you 335 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.680 for not being on the show before because you never contacted me. I know, 336 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.119 you're right. It is completely my fault because things just, you know, 337 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.759 twirl and run and everything's going crazy. And finally, though, I'm 338 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:51.119 really excited for the first of hopefully many times, because of course, you 339 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:56.960 do a lot of research all the time, yes, and I find it 340 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.279 becoming easier and easier thanks to the Internet. Now you have to be able 341 00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:07.000 to do and discriminate between the nonsense and the good stuff, and and and 342 00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.480 that that really is just sort of a comparison of various sites and seeing what 343 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.200 makes sense to you and how it all tracks together, and kind of relating 344 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:19.720 one bit of information to another information another bit of information so that you can 345 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:25.920 kind of figure out what is good solid information and what is just a little 346 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:30.559 bit off off center, off kilter m hm. And there's there's quite a 347 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:34.119 bit of off kilter stuff out there. I've noticed, well, the problem 348 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.960 with the Internet, and and and and it's also one of the great things 349 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.279 about it is anybody can put anything up on the Internet that they want. 350 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:48.039 So if they have real paranoidic views of of the UFO phenomenon, if they're 351 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.960 really outside the box on that, they have the opportunity to put that stuff 352 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.400 on the Internet. And those of us that follow a little bit more traditional 353 00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.519 path in that we can look at that stuff and say, yeah, well 354 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.599 that's a little far out for me, but you know, it may key 355 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.960 something in another bit of research I've been doing and suggests something to us. 356 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:15.480 The best example is this eighteen fifty two story from a Scientific American about this 357 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:22.200 metal vessel blown out of solid rock, and there was a story about about 358 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.079 it, and it mentioned tubulkane, and I was thinking, who's this tubulcane 359 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.160 guy, and could check on the internet and discover he's a blacksmith from ancient 360 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:36.960 times and that it's become sort of a Masonic symbol as well. And so 361 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.119 then you wonder, what was this story put into the Scientific American for some 362 00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:47.240 kind of communication amongst the members of the Masons. And there was a mention 363 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.720 of this professor who should be consulted on this metal vessel that was found. 364 00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.799 And I thought it was just some made up name, you know, sort 365 00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:05.720 of a character from from a story or something, and I just, well, 366 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:09.599 let's google his name and discovered he was really a prominent scientist from from 367 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.880 the mid nineteenth century, came from Switzerland and had done a lot of work 368 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:23.039 in anthropological and paleontology in the United States. So without the ability to google 369 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:27.000 this stuff, I probably would have never found any of that out. So 370 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.400 it's a wonderful tool, right, That's what I love about it. And 371 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:35.200 you know, not only can you get your work out there more, but 372 00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:37.680 there's you can learn for people who love to learn. You said you were 373 00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.880 watching a you know, a science show just a little while ago. There's 374 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.359 an endless amount of stuff to you no longer have to go to the library 375 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.839 and get an encyclopedia. You can learn from all of this stuff, and 376 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:57.640 it's never ending exploration and and and and. In a similar vein, you 377 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:05.079 know, the Encyclopedia Britannica had stopped publishing a hard copy, right, And 378 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.920 you think about that in one way if that's kind of too bad. And 379 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.039 on the other side of the coin is now it's all electronics, so it's 380 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:16.000 all there for everybody to get to, although I'm sure you have to pay 381 00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:20.960 a fee to use their stuff, But I mean the Scientific American. I 382 00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:27.160 tiped in to my search engine Scientific American June eighteen fifty two and found online 383 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.920 somebody had put all of this stuff online, and I was able to download 384 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.759 the specific page that I wanted in the whole article and everything about it. 385 00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:37.799 I'd already found it at in the bound periodicals at the University of Iola library 386 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.920 and had a copy of it, but I just looked it up online and 387 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.400 it was all there. Would have been much easier than having the search to 388 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:49.279 all those Scientific Americans to find it when I started out on that many many 389 00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:52.559 years ago. Right. And we'll get into some of that, because I 390 00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:58.480 know you know that your research in the UFO phenomena has changed a lot. 391 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:02.400 But I wanted to get into because I haven't had you one to talk about 392 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:07.279 this is I like to say the origin stories, you know, the comic 393 00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:12.840 book heroes, I'll have their origin stories and your origin story about how you 394 00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:17.519 got into UFOs. Were you bit by a radioactive spider? Yes, I 395 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:22.000 was, I knew it, and I can shoot webs out of my hands 396 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:27.639 and everything. Actually, no, I've always blamed my mother for this. 397 00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.039 Oh, she was a fan of science fiction, and science fiction, of 398 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:39.119 course is talked about interstellar flight and alien civilizations and alien visitation and that sort 399 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:44.000 of thing. And it's not a large step from science fiction into UFOs, 400 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:49.639 which is about interstellar travel and alien visitation and alien civilizations. And so she 401 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:55.119 kind of fired that that spark in me, and I got excited about UFOs 402 00:34:55.159 --> 00:35:00.840 because this seemed to be the reality to the science fiction. And so I 403 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:08.519 began studying UFOs when I was a mere youngster so many years ago. And 404 00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:14.239 one of the things that in that timeframe that always was coming up was the 405 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.840 skeptics to the bunkers. The Air Force was saying, well, nobody really 406 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.880 sees anything solid. It's a vague object to seen in the distance. It's 407 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:28.480 some kind of a indistinct or anomalous blob blob in the distance. And a 408 00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:32.199 front of mine's mother had seen a UFO and I got a chance to interview 409 00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:35.760 her about that, and I had a single question I wanted to ask, 410 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.760 which was was it solid? Did you get it was a distinct object? 411 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:44.199 And she said yeah, I was hovering about two hundred feet over the barn. 412 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:45.960 She lived in South Dakota, and it was about to hundred feet over 413 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.639 the barn, and she got a very good look at it, and it 414 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.320 was very solid, and the edges were very well defined. And that in 415 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.960 that investigation, that's really all I wanted to know. I wasn't really interested 416 00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:00.440 in much else about it. I just wanted that bit of information was from 417 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.559 there. It's all sort of spun out of control into all these investigations and 418 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:09.360 all these searches for additional information. So you got it into this What have 419 00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:15.079 you had your own sighting? I used to answer that question and say no, 420 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:21.559 But I was a member at one time of the Denver UFO Society when 421 00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.159 I lived out in Colorado was in high school. When I was a teenager, 422 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:29.320 and a friend of mine, Eric Nevatni, and I would go out 423 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:35.559 to the Denver UFO Society meetings. They had a get together on a ranch 424 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.519 south of Denver near Castle Rock, and we were all sitting around in the 425 00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:44.039 evening around the campfire and we saw a light travel overhead in a mean what 426 00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:45.239 would have been a polar orbit, and at the time, there were no 427 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:51.039 satellites in that particular orbit at that particular time. It got directly overhead, 428 00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:53.119 it flashed once, and then it continued on. Somebody at the fire said, 429 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.199 oh, they're singling us, and we're thinking, yeah, right, 430 00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.400 But I mean, that's the extent of my UFO siding. It's not a 431 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:06.360 very good one, and just the light moving across the sky that could very 432 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.119 easily have been a satellite, although we checked as best we could and could 433 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:14.679 find nothing that would have been in that orbit at that time to explain the 434 00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.760 sighting. Nothing like the mole robust sidings that lots of other people have, 435 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.960 And that was already after my interest in UFO, so it didn't really spark 436 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:27.119 anything, right, But I think that's kind of cool, kind of unique 437 00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:31.039 I fit in a camp with you where I got into this prior to having 438 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:34.719 a sighting, So it wasn't a setting because a lot of people, of 439 00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:37.800 course, are really motivated and into all of this because they had their own 440 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:45.000 spectacular sighting like you talked about earlier over the barn, But I was similar. 441 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:46.840 I didn't have my own sighting before I got into all of this. 442 00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:53.679 I think that that the if you're a skeptic or debunker and you have a 443 00:37:53.719 --> 00:38:00.199 sighting it and it's not this ambiguous stimuli, but something very distinct, and 444 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.159 you get a good look at it and you know it's not a medior and 445 00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:08.039 you know it's not whether related phenomenon, it's not some kind of advanced aircraft. 446 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:13.719 You know it's something other worldly based on what it does and what it 447 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.280 looks like. That's pretty much going to change your mind. You may not 448 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:22.519 be able to prove to your fellow debunkers or skeptics that these things are extraterrestrial, 449 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.119 but in your own mind, you now know what the truth is because 450 00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:34.320 you've had this sighting. So then roswell, how long have you had you 451 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:45.480 been I guess actively researching UFOs before you became a Roswell researcher. I look 452 00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:47.559 at it from the point of view, and I did a book called Reflections 453 00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:52.079 of a UFO Investigator, and it kind of lays all this stuff out. 454 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:57.800 But after I left home, after I graduated from high school and joined the 455 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:01.920 Army, I had an opportunity to invest to gate a number of sidings based 456 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.320 on where I happened to be stationed with the army, and so I was 457 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:13.679 studying all I was studying these things all along. So you can say that 458 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:19.559 the first sort of traveling I had done to investigate a UFO siding was back 459 00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:22.599 in nineteen sixty eight. I got a three day pass from the Army and 460 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:25.960 had an opportunity to go talk to Carolayne Watts, whose story I think is 461 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:30.559 probably a hoax. He said it was a hoax, but then then he 462 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:35.440 claimed the CIA made him say that. When we transferred from Fort Walders, 463 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.280 Texas to Fort Rucker, Alabama, a couple of friends of mine went down 464 00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:43.639 into Florida and we had a chance to investigate the Booksville siding down there. 465 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:49.440 So you know, we're talking about nineteen sixty seven nineteen sixty eight timeframe. 466 00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:55.199 So I was actively investigating outside my comfort zone, you might say, back 467 00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:00.960 that long ago. It was in nineteen eighty nine that I was action nineteen 468 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.679 eighty eight, I'm sorry, nineteen eighty eight that I was invited into the 469 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:12.079 QPHOS investigation of the Roswell case. So twenty years prior to getting involved in 470 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:15.360 the in Roswell investigations, I had been investigating UFOs around the country and in 471 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:21.239 different arenas, So twenty years before that, and then Roswell took up a 472 00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.079 great deal of time. But at the same time I was doing other things 473 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:29.199 as well and looking into other cases. Gotcha. And then your partnership with 474 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.760 Don Schmidt, I believe, if I remember in Roswell, you told the 475 00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:38.559 story that it began with a debate. Yes, yes, I didn't know 476 00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:43.880 Don Schmidt from Adam. But there was a science fiction convention in Milwaukee, 477 00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.960 and there were going to be three science fiction writers arguing with the two guys 478 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:51.960 up from Quepos about the reality of UFOs, and I was going to be 479 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.960 with the science fiction writers talking about this, and when Don got there, 480 00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:59.239 the other guy couldn't make it, so it was going to be three to 481 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:01.920 one. I didn't think that was fair, and in the debate. What 482 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:06.639 you do is argue the best information you have. You don't necessarily provide information 483 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:10.719 to the opposition, as opposed to an investigation where you want all the information 484 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:14.960 good, bad, or indifferent. So I switched sides. So I said, 485 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:19.440 I'll argue with him on the reality of UFOs against Fred Pohle, and 486 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:21.840 I think George R. Martin, I think with two other guys. I'm 487 00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:24.599 not sure about George Martin, but I know I know Fred Pohle was one 488 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:30.159 of the guys on the other side. And after we had completed this debate, 489 00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:34.920 Don and I got to talking and he was going to be starting this 490 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.199 Roswell investigation, and given my military background, he thought it would be an 491 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:44.639 important thing to have because a lot of the witnesses were retired military, and 492 00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:49.159 a lot of the witnesses were from the Roswell Army Airfield in that time him, 493 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.920 so they would have been military and I would have some insights into how 494 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:59.360 military the military operates as opposed to a surveyan. And he's never served today 495 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.679 And one of the first things I realized is they were talking about Colonel Dubo's 496 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:09.519 who was Rainy's chief of staff that ate the Air Force, the command directly 497 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:15.480 above the folks at Roswell. They had been talking about Dubo's being Rainy's aid, 498 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:17.719 and I said, now, a brigadier general doesn't have a full colonel 499 00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:22.119 as an aide, and the chief of staff is a much more important position 500 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.960 than the aid to a general officer. So I mean that was one of 501 00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:30.119 the one of the first things I noticed was, you know, Dubo's was 502 00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:34.320 not an aid, he was, in fact the chief of staff. So 503 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.599 you were able to clear up some of these sort of things for them, 504 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:44.360 which is invaluable. Yes, and could could say, you know this guy 505 00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:47.639 would report to this and you know, Walter hot for example, did not 506 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:54.320 have the authority to issue the press relief without some kind of permission from higher 507 00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:00.760 headquarters or from from his higher his superior officer, specific Colonel Blanchard. You 508 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:09.559 don't have a first lieutenant taking that sort of a step without the commanding officer 509 00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.360 knowing what's going on. So when they say, you know, Walter HoTT 510 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.880 or Jesse Marshall prematurely made this press release about them having a flying saucer, 511 00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:24.280 well it's really Colonel Blanchard who took that step. Because in that specific circumstance, 512 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:29.320 Blanchard would have known. You you don't go. You don't say I'm 513 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:32.320 going to put out a press release saying we've got a flying saucer without getting 514 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.039 the permission of the commanding officer to do that. What do you think if 515 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:39.840 you could, you know, if someone said, what are your top couple 516 00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:46.199 of points and why you think you know? What are the most convincing couple 517 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:52.239 of points to you or to anyone that you know, Roswell was more than 518 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:58.599 just a weather balloon or crash test dummies dropped in the desert. I look 519 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.920 at it from the point of view, and this and all some testimony, 520 00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:07.559 But every top officer at Roswell we were able to interview, with a single 521 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:13.199 exception, told us it was some kind of alien spacecraft. Edwin Asley, 522 00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:16.280 who was a provost marshal you know, think chief of police there, told 523 00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:22.639 me at one point I said to him, are we following the right path? 524 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:23.800 And he said, what do you mean? And I said, well, 525 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:25.920 we think it's extraterrestrial. He said, well, let me put it 526 00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:29.400 this way. It's not the wrong path. So I mean, here's a 527 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:34.199 guy who should have known what was going on, suggesting to us that it 528 00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:38.159 was extraterrestrial. And so every top officer at the base that we were able 529 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.760 to interview who was there at the time, with a single exception, said 530 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.880 it was it was extraterrestrial. So we've got we've got a wide range of 531 00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:54.199 testimony from the ranking officers there. The next point that is very interesting is 532 00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:59.960 if you look at the newspapers and you look at the feeling at the time, 533 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.559 starting with ken Argold's siding on June twenty fourth of the nine objects over 534 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:10.280 Mountaineer, you see the newspapers. You see all kinds of stories from scientists, 535 00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:15.000 military officials, governmental officials, the manon street trying to figure out what 536 00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:19.480 are the flying saucers, what's going on? Lots of reports of people seeing 537 00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:23.039 strange stuff, hoaxes, of course, people making stuff up, but you've 538 00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:28.119 got a lot of sightings going on. And then you have on July eighth, 539 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:30.039 you have the story from Oswell, you know they've got a flying saucer. 540 00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:35.159 And the next day, the very next day, July ninth, you 541 00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:38.800 get stories and newspapers around the country that say the Army and Navy moved today 542 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:43.719 to suppress the stories of flying saucers. Wiz in through the atmosphere. Why 543 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.199 simply on July ninth did they care? Up to that point, they didn't 544 00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:52.440 care. You get quotes from military officers about what's going on and speculation from 545 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.079 him, and suddenly they're trying to stop these stories, and you have to 546 00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:59.960 say, well, gee whiz, what happened to cause this change of attitude, 547 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:05.079 And of course the answer is Roswell. You see some things like that 548 00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:09.519 going on. There's some documentation that's very interesting. You see a very herculean 549 00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:16.800 effort for them to hide what fell at Roswell, and there's no rational reason 550 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:21.719 for that. Any technology we had in nineteen forty seven, of course, 551 00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.639 has been far surpassed by anything we have today, so there's no reason to 552 00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:30.840 keep this stuff hidden. But we see a herculean effort in nineteen forty seven 553 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:35.559 for them to hide this stuff, to secure the area, to keep people 554 00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:39.880 out of there, recover the debris, and that all is very suggestive of 555 00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:45.880 something very unusual and something that became highly classified at that time. And none 556 00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:52.719 of the explanations offered, including this nonsensical Project Mogul Idea, really fits that 557 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:59.320 category. When you look at the Project Mogul Recovery attempts when the balloon's being 558 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:04.320 launched. Nobody made that sort of herculean effort, because there's any number of 559 00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:09.360 stories about them attempting to recover Mogul balloons. But they don't send out literally 560 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:13.559 dozens of military people, they don't cord in the area, they don't try 561 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:19.480 to hide what's going on. Nobody cares because the balloons just aren't that important. 562 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:27.239 So we've got we've got this whole mystery of what was so important they 563 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:30.840 went to this herculean effort to hide it. That's one thing that I think 564 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:34.880 is interesting. One of the points you bring up is that there was a 565 00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.719 UFO fervor at the time, and when you read the stories, you can 566 00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:40.840 see that. When you even hear the famous radio account, they like, 567 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.559 what's with all these UFOs? One of them, Christian Roswell, that it 568 00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:49.639 was more than just the Arnold signing, and there was a lot going on, 569 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.519 a lot of sightings happening at that time. In fact, you wrote 570 00:47:52.599 --> 00:48:00.599 about one recently, the Maury Island incident. Which do you feel that that 571 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:06.000 that may not that may be a little dubious SAT report. I'm pretty sure 572 00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:12.119 that's a hoax, but it's it's a hoax that was driven by the UFO 573 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:15.880 phenomenon, but it was also driven by Ray Palmer, who edited a science 574 00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:21.159 fiction magazine called Amazing Stories, and he had been hired to turn around this 575 00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:23.920 this failing science fiction magazine, and this guy named Richard Shaeffer had sent him 576 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:30.039 a story that was right off the wall, talking about these detrimental robots that 577 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:35.239 are responsible for all the evil in the world and they're they're hidden away in 578 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:38.800 caves and and he had this this whole thing going about it and talking about 579 00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:44.159 about ships and flying Saucer type ships like that, and so that when that 580 00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:49.639 Arnold thing broke, Palmer jumped on this bandwagon and said, see, here's 581 00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:52.440 proof that the Shaver mystery is real. I'm not making this stuff up. 582 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:58.679 And he was contacted by one of the guys involved with the Murray Island thing, 583 00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.960 and god Ken Arnold involved in investigating it. And so Palmer was kind 584 00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:08.800 of pushing the Moury Island thing is as reality because it helped underscore the reality 585 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:13.599 of the Shaver mystery. And so you've got these two things going on at 586 00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:19.519 once, and Palmer kind of combined the two things to prove the Shaver mystery. 587 00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:23.440 But I think the evidence pretty clear based on everything that I have seen, 588 00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:30.639 and I know early George Early from Oregon has done. He did a 589 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:37.360 four part series in UFO magazine about his investigations into the Moury Island case, 590 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:43.039 and I think he's pretty well established that it's a hoax. Well, that's 591 00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:45.639 one thing that makes you a little controversial when it comes to ris Well is 592 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:52.960 that you have been early on one of the people to quickly, when you 593 00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:57.159 identify a hoax, to call it out and say, look, I don't 594 00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.840 think this is you know, good evidence. I think this witness is a 595 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:06.800 hoax. And people get upset when that happens. Of course, how do 596 00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:09.480 you feel about you know, did it shock you at first? People's reaction 597 00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:16.800 when you discover that there's hoaxing going on and you call it out, people 598 00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:22.000 getting so upset about that sort of thing. It doesn't surprise me that there's 599 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:27.840 hoaxing going off. Yeah. What surprised me is, and it astonishes me 600 00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:32.440 repeatedly, is when you have the evidence that it's a hoax and people just 601 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:37.280 reject that evidence and come up with all kinds of convoluted reasons of why the 602 00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:44.400 evidence isn't as persuasive as it is. And I mean they talk about, 603 00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:46.360 well, this guy said he was in the military, Well there's no records. 604 00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:50.960 Well see, the government was able to take to the height his records 605 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.280 to make him look bad and we would reject the story. And my rebuttal 606 00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:00.920 to that is that's impossible. The take officers. For example, back in 607 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:05.960 the back up until the mid nineteen seventies or nineteen eighties, there was what 608 00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:10.800 was called the Army Registry, or the Air Force Registry or the Naval Registry. 609 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:15.599 And what this was was a list of all the officers on active duty. 610 00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:21.119 And these are in repositories around the country. In fact, one of 611 00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:23.280 the things that I enjoyed doing was when I was looking that up one day, 612 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:27.719 I pulled the one from eighteen seventy seven, and it gave a listing 613 00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.039 of all the officers killed at the Little Big Horn because they were no longer 614 00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:32.440 on active duty, and this is why they had been removed from the role 615 00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:37.119 of active duty. And so if you tell me a guy was on active 616 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:39.800 duty in this time and his records have disappeared, well then my next thing 617 00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:43.880 is, Okay, I'll look at the registry and if his name his names 618 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:47.159 there, then we've got something. But the names are never there. They 619 00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:50.400 say, well, there was this big fire in Saint Louis and my records 620 00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:52.199 were burned up, But that's not the only place where there were records. 621 00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.840 And if you were still on active duty in nineteen seventy three when the fire 622 00:51:55.880 --> 00:52:00.119 took place, your records weren't there to burn up. The Air Force has 623 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:06.320 an Air Personnel Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver, and a lot of the 624 00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:09.840 records for the Air Force guys are there. And so even if your record 625 00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:16.519 burned up in Saint Louis, there's records in Denver. If you went to 626 00:52:16.519 --> 00:52:21.119 flight school, for example, there should be some kind of record at the 627 00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:24.199 place you went to flight school. When I went to flight school in nineteen 628 00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:29.840 sixty eight, I was able to find online again the Internet coming through. 629 00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:34.639 I was actually able to find a picture of my platoon from flight school. 630 00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.760 So if you say, well, I don't believe you are an helicopter pilot, 631 00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:42.119 I can point to that and say you go to this place and here's 632 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:45.079 my platoon, and you read I think I'm in a second position in the 633 00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:51.000 second row. There's my name there are two websites devoted to the companies I 634 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:55.039 was served in Vietnam, and you go to those sites, my name surface 635 00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:59.320 is there, and in fact, in one of them it actually talks about 636 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:02.519 me eventually being on Well we saw Kevin Ramble, who was a member of 637 00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:08.320 our unit on television doing UFO stuff. The other site's got a picture of 638 00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:15.320 me in my Vietnam garb and another picture because I'd sent them one from Iraq, 639 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:20.440 so they showed me in nineteen sixty eight in Vietnam, in nineteen Earth 640 00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.840 nineteen two thousand and three in Iraq. So, I mean, there are 641 00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:29.000 ways to verify all of this stuff. But if a guy is not who 642 00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:32.440 he says he is, he's claiming these sorts of things, all that stuff 643 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:37.559 doesn't exist for them, and there's no way the government could get to all 644 00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:42.599 that stuff and hide it. Yeah, you hear a lot about that, 645 00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.400 even with you know, like of course, at one of the big cases 646 00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:51.000 Bob Blazaar, have you ran across or do you believe that any of these 647 00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:58.360 people have been historically erased that actually ever happened. I can't see it. 648 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:05.800 It's there's a phenomenon which is called stolen valor in which people, and I 649 00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:08.440 say, people, men and women both claiming to be Vietnam veterans, claiming 650 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:13.239 to be POW's, claiming to have been in special forces, whether it's the 651 00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:17.639 Green Berets, it's Marine recon, it's Navy seals, claiming all this stuff. 652 00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:21.800 And then they say, you try to check their records, and their 653 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.039 records don't bear this out. And they said, well, the government doesn't 654 00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:27.800 like what I've said about this, and they've erased my record to make me 655 00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:30.320 book bad. Well, it's crap. It just cannot be done. There 656 00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:36.480 is too much ancillary information. If, for example, you were to write 657 00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:38.920 to Saint Louis to try to get my military record and they wrote back said, 658 00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:43.679 we've got no record to this guy. I can even provide you with 659 00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:51.360 copies of travel vouchers who we had to fill out to be reimbursed for expenses 660 00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:54.639 on military travel. I've got copies of orders. I've got all kinds of 661 00:54:54.719 --> 00:55:00.800 documents to prove this. I actually have written to Saint Louis as my mother 662 00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:05.039 in law to see what kind of information I would get in return, to 663 00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.920 see how how badly mangled it is. And when I wrote for my Air 664 00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:13.079 Force record, it had me as a first lieutenant, and I realized that 665 00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:20.280 it's because when I left Richards Goubauer they issued a DD formed two fourteen about 666 00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:23.079 that, and I was only a first lieutenant at the time, and so 667 00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:28.760 they picked up the record from the information from my Army service for the D 668 00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:32.039 four form two fourteen. So why when I wrote to Saint Louis, it'd 669 00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:37.119 only pulled that information for Air Force. If you write for my army record, 670 00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:43.000 you get a whole different story. So the information is all there. 671 00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.400 But if you weren't who you said your records, I'm going to be there. 672 00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:52.480 And if you couldn't find that, I can point to other places. 673 00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:58.199 You can go independent of me to verify what I say, And these people 674 00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:00.679 can't do that. It all relies on what they say in documents they produce. 675 00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:07.840 What one hoaxer. Do you think has done the biggest damage to the 676 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:15.159 Roswell story? Oh? Man, the biggest? Are there too many? 677 00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:21.880 Unfortunately, I would I would get there. There are two that spring to 678 00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:27.880 mind immediately, Frank Kaufman, of course, and then Gerald Anderson, and 679 00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:30.320 I think I think both of them have done a great deal of damage to 680 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:36.679 it. Kaufman may be the worst, because Kaufman was there in Roswell and 681 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:40.280 talking about the events in Roswell, where Anderson's talking about stuff over on the 682 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:45.480 plains of Santa Agustin, which is sort of an ancillary part of the Roswell 683 00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:51.039 case. I guess Frank Coufin would be the worst. Now he is generally 684 00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:55.000 accepted for the most part, right as someone who is a hoaxer. Are 685 00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:00.719 there still people who believe? Do you? Yeah? Is what strikes me 686 00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:05.239 is incredible, you know, I believe the story in the beginning. I 687 00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:08.559 mean, Frank Kaufman would present us a documentation when when needed, and things 688 00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:13.400 like that, and and these seemed to be a very credible witness. One 689 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:16.199 of the things is the yearbook was produced that was produced in Roswell nineteen forty 690 00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:19.519 seven. I had a picture of Frank Kaufman in there getting a medal. 691 00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:22.920 Looking looking at the metal closely, it appears now to be a World War 692 00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:29.400 two victory medal, which they gave to everybody who served in the in the 693 00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:32.559 US military during the during the Second World War. So I don't know why 694 00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:37.400 there was some kind of presentation of this metal to him in Roswell in nineteen 695 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.000 forty seven. But I mean he's in the yearbook, so I mean this, 696 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:45.880 this makes you look credible. But as we as we investigated further, 697 00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:50.320 you know, we found we found the evidence. We found the things the 698 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:54.159 separation papers that he provided to us, we found the real copies and they 699 00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:59.679 didn't match up. We found that he wasn't in intelligence as he claimed, 700 00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:04.599 he was an administrator in the administration. If we found he hadn't been a 701 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.320 mattress sergeant as he claimed, but he was a staff sergeant. So there 702 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:12.559 were a lot of things that were wrong with what he said. So and 703 00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:15.599 when I say we, I know Mark Rodicker and I did a big story 704 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:20.039 for the International UFO Reporter about this, and it's come out other words, 705 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:22.920 and people still say to me, well, how do you know Frank Kaufman 706 00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:25.719 was an agent of disinformation? Now, he was just a guy who plugged 707 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:30.840 himself into the Roswell case for the spotlight that it brought to him and the 708 00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:35.440 financial rewards. And I know that he was paid for interviews on a number 709 00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:38.199 of occasions, so there was a financial reward, and there was then he 710 00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:45.199 got to see his face on TV. But the thing is, there are 711 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:47.920 people who still think there's something real to his story, that he's got part 712 00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:50.840 of it right. We should listen to what he had to say. No, 713 00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:53.679 we reject everything he has to say. If we can't corroborate it from 714 00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:55.880 another source, and we got it from another source, then we don't need 715 00:58:55.880 --> 00:59:00.480 Frank Kaufman. And that's It's the sad thing. And I can point to 716 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:06.559 any number of cases where the originator of the hoax is admitted that it was 717 00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:08.719 a hoax, They signed documents that it was a hoax, and we still 718 00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:15.039 argue with those points. Viaen Day Letters come to mind. The guy went 719 00:59:15.079 --> 00:59:17.119 to apro and said, I made the whole thing up and signed a document, 720 00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:23.679 and then years later he decided he wanted to retract his statement. But 721 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:29.159 everything that you can find about it suggests this thing is a hoax. And 722 00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:32.840 yet here we are in twenty twelve, still arguing about the reality of the 723 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:37.639 Day Letters. One of the things he said in one of the annotated books 724 00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:44.119 was arguing about this airplane, the Stardust that disappeared in nineteen fifty two. 725 00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.719 I think it was maybe he's nineteen forty eight. I forget. It disappeared 726 00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:52.719 in South America and in the Enday Letters book, there's an annotation about this, 727 00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:57.480 and it said that the airplane had gotten too close to the one of 728 00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:00.400 their ships and it was destroyed. Well, the wrecks of the he was 729 01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:06.559 found eventually, around ten twelve years ago, they found the wreckage and what 730 01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:12.039 happened is they flew into him out And so if Yendi was who he said 731 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:15.719 he was, they had known that. So it's just it's just that sort 732 01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:20.920 of thing and you and you provide that information and they say, yeah, 733 01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:23.320 but what about this? What about that? Ayendi, by the way, 734 01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:28.440 gets this to the Philadelphia experiment. So that's that's where people want to keep 735 01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:30.800 talking about this. But the guy made it up. He said he made 736 01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:36.400 it up. I did a story about it the Allende Letters in Official UFO 737 01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:44.440 magazine in the mid nineteen seventies, and Carlos Ayendi, Carl Allen read the 738 01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:46.639 article and sent a copy of it annotated back to the publisher, and the 739 01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:51.039 publisher sent me a copy of I've got one of my stories. Carlos A. 740 01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:57.559 Yendi actually annotated the about the story. But you find out things. 741 01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:02.440 The is that the Navy was very interested in the End Day's Letters when they 742 01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:06.519 got them. Well, it turns out that's not quite right. What happened 743 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:10.000 was two guys who worked for the Office of Naval Research were interested in it, 744 01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:19.639 and the Navy had no had no reason to reject them from working on 745 01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:22.320 it if they wanted to. They didn't, you know, if they wanted 746 01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:23.280 to go ahead and work on it on their own time, as long as 747 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:27.400 Navy funds weren't involved, they didn't care. The Navy didn't care. And 748 01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:30.480 so it comes out that the Navy was very interested in they sing and they 749 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:35.079 did all this research. Well that's not really quite accurate. Two guys in 750 01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:37.119 the Navy, and the fact they were in the Navy followed them. I 751 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:43.159 mean, I had a similar circumstance where I was investigating some alleged landings in 752 01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:46.039 Iowa, and I was also in the Air Force Reserve at the time, 753 01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:51.559 but I was doing it as a private citizen. But somebody saw the bumper 754 01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:57.199 sticker on my car for the base and told the media that the Air Force 755 01:01:57.239 --> 01:02:00.239 had been out to investigate their UFO setting. Well, no, it me 756 01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.079 wasn't the Air Force. The fact that they just they just saw the bumper 757 01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:07.400 sticker and made an assumption that wasn't true, and a lot of that goes 758 01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:13.039 on if people make these assumptions that aren't true and keep these things alive when 759 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.239 they we should have driven the stake through the hearts of them long ago and 760 01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:22.400 stopped the investigations and moved on to more lucrative areas of investigation. That's what 761 01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:28.360 seems to be at least it's frustrating. I think it's really frustrating when it 762 01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:34.159 comes to Roswell research is that people will hold on to these hoaxes so tightly 763 01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:39.800 when it's not necessary. There are a small number of hoaxes as opposed to 764 01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:45.800 all of the incredible witnesses that you all as a Rosewell dream team, you 765 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:52.440 know, you and and Don Schmidt and Tom Carrey and if you include SANM. 766 01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:55.320 Freeman. I mean, the number of witnesses you calls have gotten is 767 01:02:55.400 --> 01:03:00.440 pretty impressive. You don't need those those hoaxes in that maxe to you. 768 01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:07.280 No it and it hurts, And it hurts because a lot of times people 769 01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:12.960 only remember the hoaxes. I think of Bill Buckner. What does everybody remember 770 01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.039 about Bill Buckner? While he was playing first base and the ball went between 771 01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:20.960 between his legs and allowed the other team to score a run and they ended 772 01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:25.400 up winning the World Series. They don't remember the probably hundreds of great plays 773 01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:30.760 Bill Buckner made. They remember that one thing. There was a movie Tin 774 01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:37.400 Cup with Kevin Costner about the US Open and he was trying to drive the 775 01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:43.039 ball over this this water hazard and kept dropping the ball, and at the 776 01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:45.199 end of the movie, his girlfriend says, nobody. You know, in 777 01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:50.519 ten years, nobody's going to remember who won the US Open this year. 778 01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:55.159 They're going to remember you're twelve on that hole. And it's the same thing. 779 01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:59.639 You know. They don't remember all the good witnesses that we have, 780 01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:02.679 all the good testimony we have. They remember, oh, well, you 781 01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:06.559 know, Frank Couflin was coming to lie about this, So you know, 782 01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:11.400 that really hurts. Hurts the investigation and then people hanging on to it, 783 01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:15.679 wanting to believe that there's something something there that we should that we should follow 784 01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:19.559 on, there's something there that we need to research, and I'm thinking, 785 01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:23.519 no, not with that. We need to move into arenas that are going 786 01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:27.239 to pay off in a good way. It's funny you bring up the golf 787 01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:30.920 because you know, just this last weekend, co Heer said the Masters, 788 01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:33.480 the big news is Tiger screws up, Mickelson screws up. And you know, 789 01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:38.880 the big news isn't the people who won and the great news. So 790 01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:43.079 let's move on to good news instead of the bad stuff. I guess, 791 01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:46.960 which is what I think is an incredible movie. It's one of my favorite 792 01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:51.920 just overall movies in general, just because I love that someone made a movie 793 01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:58.239 about some real research, and that's nineteen ninety four, the Roswell movie that 794 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:01.639 your credit as one of the you got to help with research on this movie. 795 01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.599 What was that experience like and how did it start? How did it 796 01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:08.360 happen? Well, first of all, let me let me say this. 797 01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:12.360 I find it incredible that if you look me up on the Internet movie database, 798 01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:15.480 I'm actually there, I know, along with all the Hollywood stars. 799 01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:21.719 You know, I think I'm on the Internet movie database for Trainee is what 800 01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:30.559 happened? What happened is Donna I wanted to do after I think our first 801 01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:34.679 trip to Oswell, we were driving down the Interstate twenty five heading toward the 802 01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:38.559 airport, and I said, don you know, we could do a book 803 01:05:38.599 --> 01:05:42.559 about this. We've got to do a lot more research, but we've got 804 01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:45.000 to do a book. So I'm now in the process of trying to convent 805 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:51.880 a publisher that they should publish this book. And we knew Paul David's from 806 01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:57.599 California. He had a UFO siding that was very interesting by the way, 807 01:05:57.639 --> 01:06:01.320 his wife worked at Columbia Pictures. And I said to Don, if we 808 01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:06.599 can get Paul David or his wife just to you know, suggest that they're 809 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:11.760 you know, the story interests, and we might be able to convince a 810 01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:17.800 publisher to publish the book. And what happened was Paul David got really excited 811 01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:23.639 about the project and thought it was a good idea. So he put together 812 01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:29.880 what they call it treatment and went around to his contacts in California to try 813 01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:35.159 to sell the movie idea. Eventually, HBO was going to do it, 814 01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:40.880 but they decided not to, and I don't know what the real reason was, 815 01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:45.679 but he eventually got it sold to a showtime and and so we had 816 01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:50.840 an opportunity to provide the research for the movie. I got to be on 817 01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:56.079 the set as the military advisor and one of the technical advisors, and Done 818 01:06:56.119 --> 01:06:58.760 was on the set as one of the technical advisers, and we got you 819 01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:02.800 know, it's based on the book UFO Crash at Rosald by Kevin Randlin Dodgement, 820 01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:05.559 which is kind of a neat thing to do. So we got the 821 01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:11.880 opportunity to watch them make a movie. We got got an opportunity to be 822 01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:15.079 in the movie. Unfortunately, I'm kind of hard to see and Don has 823 01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:18.239 his back to the camera. If you know Don, you know it's him. 824 01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:20.480 And if you look at the right place, you can see me in 825 01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:25.639 the film. Uh and and and you know, we got to see the 826 01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:30.119 dailies every night while we were down in filming in Arizona. They would have 827 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:34.320 the have the dailies at one of the hot the hotel room, and I 828 01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:36.880 got there late one night for some reason, I don't know why. I 829 01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:40.480 didn't get there right when they started the dailies. And I walked into the 830 01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:44.239 room and the director said, and I couldn't believe this. They said, 831 01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:47.559 oh, start over, Kevin got it just got here. I'm thinking, 832 01:07:47.639 --> 01:07:51.559 Wow, this is really nice. You can have to make everybody sit through 833 01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:56.000 this stuff again, so I can see it from the beginning, which was 834 01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:59.760 kind of cool. But we you know, I had we got an opportunity 835 01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:04.719 to though I'd input on it. I would tell the director this isn't exactly 836 01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:08.639 the way the military would do it. I was helping the costumers make sure 837 01:08:08.679 --> 01:08:11.480 the military uniforms were right, and the one day I wasn't on the set, 838 01:08:11.559 --> 01:08:17.520 they put put insignia on the collar of Marcell's Marcelle's uniform that was incorrect. 839 01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:20.039 Oh. And then I then, of course, I have my great, 840 01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:25.039 my great Kyle McLaughlin story. The first day we're on the set, 841 01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:29.880 he comes out in his his major marcell uniform and he says, is this 842 01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:34.359 right? And I said, well, you've got the major's leaf on sideways. 843 01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:38.199 And I fixed that, and I fixed the other insignia, and I 844 01:08:38.279 --> 01:08:41.520 realized his gigline was off, which which is the you know, the line 845 01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:45.560 along the shirt down past the bell buckle into the fly of the trousers, 846 01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:47.720 and the belt buckle was off. So I reached down and started unbuckling his 847 01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:53.119 pants. Oh wow, And my thought was, you know how many women 848 01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:56.439 would love to do this? And then my second thought was, you know, 849 01:08:56.560 --> 01:09:00.479 maybe I shouldn't be unbuckling his pans. So I I said, well, 850 01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:01.359 we can fix your giglin. I said, I'm go ahead and fix 851 01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:06.920 it. So I adjusted his belt buckle so the Giglin was proper. So, 852 01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:10.359 I mean, this is a great thing. We got an opportunity to 853 01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:15.479 meet meet with a number of very famous people. Uh not only com McLaughlan, 854 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:19.000 Dwight Yoakum got to got to have a nice couple of nice chants with 855 01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:23.359 him. Xander Berkley. I didn't really know who he was at the time, 856 01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:26.680 and I said, so I wanted to get an idea of what movies 857 01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:28.920 he'd been in prior to this one. So I said to him, what 858 01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.039 are some of your favorite movie roles? Thinking you know, and I said, 859 01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:32.920 well, I don't know what you've been in. Tell me. It 860 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.279 was what are you like? And he said, well he got killed by 861 01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:41.920 the terminator and terminator too and I thought, oh, that's this is And 862 01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:46.039 Ali said he had sent Tom Cruise to Cuba in a Few Good Men, 863 01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:50.439 so he's got he's got a roll a small role in that film as well. 864 01:09:50.560 --> 01:09:55.119 So next time I saw a Few Good Men, I made sure that 865 01:09:55.159 --> 01:09:58.920 I would see his role in that. We got to go to a couple 866 01:09:58.960 --> 01:10:01.000 of Hollywood premieres. Because of that, we got to go to the premiere 867 01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:05.199 of Therosmo movie, which was kind of kind of and we got to meet 868 01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:09.319 Robert Wise, who'd done the day they were student Stille. He'd come to 869 01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:13.359 the premiere of our movie. Got to meet him and things like that. 870 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:15.239 So, you know, the movie got all of this stuff, and it 871 01:10:15.319 --> 01:10:19.439 was really kind of neat being on the set and watching them doing and realizing 872 01:10:20.119 --> 01:10:25.439 they spend all day, they spend twelve fourteen hours and if they get three 873 01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:29.239 minutes of film they're happy. I mean all this stuff. You get three 874 01:10:29.279 --> 01:10:33.119 minutes of film, and the elaborate processes of setting things up and making sure 875 01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:36.920 the scenes are right, and then you go you go on the Internet movie 876 01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:41.840 database, and you've got all this stuff about the continuity being off in movies, 877 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:46.039 you know, and you're not filming the thing in sequence. So you 878 01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:51.399 might film a scene outside and then three weeks later, a month later, 879 01:10:51.399 --> 01:10:55.079 you're filming the inside scene. So when the guy walks through the door, 880 01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:59.560 it seems seamless, but the scenes may have been filmed weeks apart, and 881 01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:02.319 so they're taking polaroid pictures so they can try to get the costume to look 882 01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:06.520 the same in all of that, and and it's just an incredible process. 883 01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:11.720 And so you get an idea of how hard and difficult it is. And 884 01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:16.279 then you see the the internet people with well in this movie, his time 885 01:11:16.439 --> 01:11:18.760 was on this way and when he walked out the door, it was on 886 01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:23.199 this way. Well yeah, big woop. You know, you take some 887 01:11:23.239 --> 01:11:26.800 of the magic out of the movie that way. But it was an incredible 888 01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:30.359 process to see all the the herculean effort to go to get this stuff right. 889 01:11:30.399 --> 01:11:33.880 And but but again, at one point I said to the director that 890 01:11:33.960 --> 01:11:39.359 there was something not quite right. Well, they were addressing one of the 891 01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:43.680 one of the people wrong, not in the military way of doing that. 892 01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:45.680 And the director says, you know, we're making a movie, you're not 893 01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.239 a documentary. And I said, yeah, okay, I get it. 894 01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:55.680 You know if so so again, when you watch a movie about a historical 895 01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:00.279 event, you have to think in your mind they're making a movie, not 896 01:12:00.399 --> 01:12:05.279 a documentary, So they play with the facts a little bit for the context 897 01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:08.720 of the movie. If they're making a documentary, then they need to get 898 01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:11.159 the stuff right. But if they're making a movie, well, you know 899 01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:15.199 they're doing for the flow of the movie. They make combining characters so that 900 01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:19.199 you don't end up with fifteen characters when you only need three to really move 901 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:21.920 the plot along and things like that. I mean, it's hard to keep 902 01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:26.079 track of all the characters and all of this stuff when you're watching the movie. 903 01:12:26.119 --> 01:12:29.800 So it's nice to have those sorts of things. But it was a 904 01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:33.760 really interesting process to watch them make the movie. And like I said, 905 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:38.800 I got to sit around all day in costume as a nineteen forty seven reporter. 906 01:12:39.800 --> 01:12:43.199 Yeah, that's waiting for my big role, my big opportunity to go 907 01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:46.000 into the movies. And then Martin Sheen of course in it Who for the 908 01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:54.439 younger people. That's Charlie Sheen's dad's And my favorite scene in any movie is 909 01:12:54.479 --> 01:13:04.720 in What the movie with machines in it, Where's He's one of the parodies 910 01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:09.680 of the military movies. And they're both one going up river, one's going 911 01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:12.960 down river, and they look at each other and they both yell, I 912 01:13:12.960 --> 01:13:16.680 loved you on Wall Street. Oh that's pretty funny, you know so, 913 01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:19.920 And I can't remember the name of the movie at the moment. What I 914 01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:24.239 love about the movie, like you said, you know, Hollywood plays with 915 01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:27.960 things to bring some drama to it. It's not like they said, it's 916 01:13:28.039 --> 01:13:31.279 not a documentary. But what I love about it is that it's based on 917 01:13:31.399 --> 01:13:35.600 research that there's a lot of what really or what you will have found to 918 01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:42.039 have happened. Dwight Yoakum also was a great mac brasle. Whenever I think 919 01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:45.199 of mac Brasel, I think of Dwight Yoakum. But and the big controversy 920 01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:49.760 about that was is we had pictures of Dwight Yoakam without his hat on. 921 01:13:49.840 --> 01:13:54.560 So we realized everybody realized he was going bald. Oh how funny. Yep, 922 01:13:55.039 --> 01:13:57.640 so he left his hat on. I don't think he had anything without 923 01:13:57.680 --> 01:14:00.520 the hat huh. Well, no, he had in a couple of scenes, 924 01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:02.000 he didn't have his hat on. Oh okay. And I remember seeing 925 01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:05.079 in a newspaper or reading in one of the tabloids or something about this, 926 01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:09.439 and it was it was the big deal that, you know, his pictures 927 01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:12.680 of Dwight Yoakum without his hat on, and it was from our movie How 928 01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:15.319 funny? So how do you think it holds up to me? It seems 929 01:14:15.319 --> 01:14:17.960 like, you know, that's what's neat about it is it feels like, 930 01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:24.199 you know, with this event and what seemingly happened. Some of these behind 931 01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:30.880 the scenes discussions with the military and government officials were probably similar to what might 932 01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:36.039 have really these conversations might have really been, Like I think part of the 933 01:14:36.079 --> 01:14:42.680 thing that they were doing is attempting to find a way to move the story 934 01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:48.199 along, and they did it with composite characters adding pull. Jessie Marshel Senior, 935 01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:56.159 of course, never investigated the Roswell case, but for the movie he 936 01:14:56.239 --> 01:15:00.960 became. He became the way of moving the story forward that he's looking for 937 01:15:01.039 --> 01:15:09.720 these various aspects of the case. So they said it in a dramatic environment, 938 01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:14.399 but they tried to hold it the facts of the case as best they 939 01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:17.840 could to what we knew in nineteen ninety four about the case. So you 940 01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:27.279 might have a character who doesn't didn't exist in real life talking about part of 941 01:15:27.319 --> 01:15:30.479 the story to move it forward. But it's a composite of two or three 942 01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:35.000 characters. I know in the movie, Glenn Dennis didn't want wouldn't sign the 943 01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:40.319 release to allow his name to be used in the movie. Oh right, 944 01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:43.119 I did notice his name is different, and I don't think I ever asked 945 01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:45.960 about that. Yeah, well, and he wouldn't sign the release. So 946 01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:51.920 what they did was he used Paul David's name. Because Glenn Dennis is like 947 01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:57.119 two first names, and Paul Davids is like two first names, So they 948 01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:01.000 did a play on Paul David's name in the film David Paul or Paul David 949 01:16:01.079 --> 01:16:04.279 or something like that. They say like that, And so he became the 950 01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:10.359 mortician who tells the story about ordering the or getting the call about the small 951 01:16:10.399 --> 01:16:19.079 coffins. And so they tried to maintain the factual framework of the story but 952 01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:24.159 put it in a fictional context. And like I said, you know, 953 01:16:25.359 --> 01:16:30.600 the director, Jeremy Kagan was well aware of what he was doing, making 954 01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:36.359 a movie and not a documentary. If the two collided, the factual basis 955 01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:42.920 collided with the framework of the story, well then he went with the story. 956 01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:46.720 And that's exactly right. He was making a movie. If he was 957 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:50.159 making a documentary, then he would then required to stick with the facts, 958 01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:53.800 but since he was making a movie, he had been them to fit the 959 01:16:53.840 --> 01:16:57.880 framework of his film. How did you fill with the results? Oh? 960 01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:00.359 I love the movie. Yeah, I love it too. I uh well, 961 01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:03.720 I especially love one watching the opening credits where it's based on the book 962 01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:06.680 by Kevin Rand. You watch that over and over again? Oh yeah, 963 01:17:06.920 --> 01:17:11.159 do you flame on that? Let's get pictures of that and then of course 964 01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:15.720 at the at the end, watching the closing credits, look for my name 965 01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:20.319 crawling across the closing credits. But going to what about the middle stuff in 966 01:17:20.359 --> 01:17:23.279 between the credits? Did you like that? Did that? They're not? 967 01:17:23.359 --> 01:17:26.760 All right? Yeah? That was that was good too. But but going 968 01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:30.159 to going to premiers, they got to go to a couple of Hollywood premiers 969 01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:33.640 because Paul David's had invitations, and he took on and met a couple of 970 01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:39.000 Hollywood premiers. And what I found interesting is how the audiences would have plod 971 01:17:39.079 --> 01:17:42.039 the names as they came up on the on the screen, you know, 972 01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:45.520 directed by yay, you know that sort of thing. And and and they 973 01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:47.680 sit there quietly and watch the movie, and they sit there through the closing 974 01:17:47.720 --> 01:17:53.720 credits. Nobody walked out when the credits ran. The credits like in a 975 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:56.600 regular movie, everybody who cares about the credits and they leave. But in 976 01:17:57.079 --> 01:17:59.800 the Hollywood, when they're at the premiere, they watched the credits. They 977 01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:05.199 want and the apod for people. Did you get some applies? Yes, 978 01:18:05.239 --> 01:18:13.079 but only because I started it. I was flapping for me and everybody picked 979 01:18:13.079 --> 01:18:16.359 it up. Yeah, yeah, ran, well way to go. What 980 01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:21.880 about the aftermath. Did you have a lot of people coming to you afterwards, 981 01:18:23.239 --> 01:18:30.239 maybe more witnesses or some maybe well known people or high ranking people who 982 01:18:30.239 --> 01:18:34.239 came to you to talk about the film, not after the movie, after 983 01:18:34.439 --> 01:18:39.239 after some of the documentaries. Yeah, we we found people after the documentaries 984 01:18:39.239 --> 01:18:42.199 and people came forward. That was how gerald Anderson appeared. As a matter 985 01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:48.119 of fact, after Unfaded Mystery had done the program about about Oswell, gerald 986 01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:51.560 Anderson sent both me and Stan Friedman a letter. I just have to talk 987 01:18:51.600 --> 01:19:00.800 to talk to him first about his alleged involvement. But but some of that's 988 01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.479 how we learned of it. But a lot of the witnesses that we found 989 01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:09.479 we went out and searched for. We had that yearbook that that Walter hot 990 01:19:09.479 --> 01:19:12.479 had produced in nineteen forty seven, and what a tool that turned out to 991 01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:16.520 be, because here's a list of I forget what the number he has made, 992 01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:20.640 twenty five hundred people who are signed to the base. We've we've got 993 01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:26.239 pictures of him and a list of their names. There was a phone book 994 01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:30.920 that had been produced for the base in nineteen forty seven, so we had 995 01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:36.319 the names of a lot of the officers in that phone book. And one 996 01:19:36.319 --> 01:19:40.760 of the reasons I point that out is a woman named Elaine Vay, who 997 01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:45.000 contacted us after the Unsolved Mysteries program, said, here, uncle Darlant Rasmussen 998 01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:48.520 had been at the base in nineteen forty seven, and so we looked him 999 01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:53.119 up in the yearbook and he's not there, but he is in the phone 1000 01:19:53.119 --> 01:19:58.720 book. So Walter had told me that ten to fifteen twenty percent of the 1001 01:19:58.720 --> 01:20:00.840 people who were signed to the base in nineteen forty seven would in the yearbook, 1002 01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:04.760 but we could we could place Darlin Rasmussen there because we found his name 1003 01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:10.399 in the telephone directory, and so we would we would go down these lists 1004 01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:13.520 of names. I went. I tried to find the people in the MP 1005 01:20:13.680 --> 01:20:16.279 squadrons, for example, to talk to them about what their involvement might have 1006 01:20:16.359 --> 01:20:19.119 been. So we had a list of a lot of those people, and 1007 01:20:19.159 --> 01:20:25.680 we're continuing to follow that today, looking for people who were appeared in the 1008 01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:29.159 yearbook. Now we're twenty years down the road and we're talking to guys who 1009 01:20:29.159 --> 01:20:32.479 are ninety and when we can find them alive, or we're talking to family 1010 01:20:32.520 --> 01:20:39.359 members about what the family members may have their their relatives may have said to 1011 01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:44.920 him about the Roswell case. But we still find some people alive today who 1012 01:20:45.159 --> 01:20:49.520 who can tell us a little bit about this, what's happened to me in 1013 01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:54.000 the last couple of months, and the people I've talked to. I talked 1014 01:20:54.039 --> 01:21:00.039 to one guy who is in Minnesota. I remember he was in Minnesota and 1015 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:01.159 I thought would all he'd be a Vikings fan. Turned out he was a 1016 01:21:01.199 --> 01:21:05.199 Green Bay fan. Kind of surprised me. But I talked to him briefly 1017 01:21:05.199 --> 01:21:08.399 and he said, well, no, he wasn't really directly involved, but 1018 01:21:08.479 --> 01:21:10.680 some of his friends were and they told him a little bit about it. 1019 01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:14.960 So, I mean, I found a guy who was alive from that time 1020 01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:18.079 frame who talked about what he what his impressions were, what was going on 1021 01:21:18.119 --> 01:21:21.560 at the base at the time. And I know, I know, what 1022 01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:28.039 does he believe that? Oh yeah, he talked to his friends had told 1023 01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:30.000 him that they had been involved in it, and that like that. I 1024 01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:34.640 found an MP who wasn't involved, and he said when they when his friends 1025 01:21:34.640 --> 01:21:38.000 told him about it, he didn't believe him until he saw the story in 1026 01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:43.479 the newspaper. That tells me. It tells me that the guys were out 1027 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:47.079 a cordoning off the area prior to Wolverhowt's press release, and they would came 1028 01:21:47.079 --> 01:21:49.720 back into the barracks and we're talking about what they had seen, and the 1029 01:21:49.720 --> 01:21:53.479 guy said, I I didn't believe HI until myself story in the newspaper. 1030 01:21:53.880 --> 01:22:02.159 Wow. There was another guy, guy named Piles. Piles, and he 1031 01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:05.920 talked about seeing something in the sky, traveling across the sky one night, 1032 01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:11.359 and he said he wasn't he didn't think much about it until he saw the 1033 01:22:11.439 --> 01:22:14.439 article in the newspaper a couple of days later, Well, that might have 1034 01:22:14.479 --> 01:22:17.800 been the thing. Which is interesting because Carl Flock and his book was making 1035 01:22:18.680 --> 01:22:23.920 explaining how Don and I had made up this story about Piles and what he 1036 01:22:23.920 --> 01:22:29.720 had seen and what he had done, and Piles couldn't even remember what time 1037 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:32.479 of year it was and even what year it had happened. And then my 1038 01:22:32.520 --> 01:22:38.000 two paragraphs later in Carl's book, the guy says, you know, a 1039 01:22:38.000 --> 01:22:41.000 couple of days later, when I saw the object, I saw the article 1040 01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.119 in the newspaper, I realized that might have been the thing I saw. 1041 01:22:43.199 --> 01:22:45.039 I'm thinking, well, gee, where that puts it in the first week 1042 01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:48.159 of July, just like we said, and the skeptics can't seem to read 1043 01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:53.560 from you know, halfway down the page from he's saying, you guys couldn't 1044 01:22:53.600 --> 01:22:56.640 even the guy couldn't even remember what time of year and year it was. 1045 01:22:56.680 --> 01:23:00.840 And three paragraphs later he's pinned it down to a speci think week in July 1046 01:23:00.880 --> 01:23:08.760 of nineteen forty seven. So the Rosewell Dream Team. I wanted to get 1047 01:23:08.800 --> 01:23:14.560 to that this is something new that you and Don and Tom have gotten together. 1048 01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:17.199 And I think a couple of people have been added to the team too. 1049 01:23:18.159 --> 01:23:26.039 How did this come about and why now? Tom Kerry, after we 1050 01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:32.640 had talked down in Roswell, called me one day and wanted to do wanted 1051 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:35.760 it was something I had thought about as well, and in fact i'd actually 1052 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:41.039 approached the publish here before we got down to Roswell this last time, suggesting 1053 01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:45.199 we do the definitive Roswell book. Look at all the evidence, look at 1054 01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:49.039 everything we've got today, put it in perspective as we understand it today, 1055 01:23:49.800 --> 01:23:55.880 the skeptical arguments, the Air Force arguments, all of this stuff. And 1056 01:23:55.960 --> 01:24:00.039 Tom called me and he had a similar idea and thought that he and I 1057 01:24:00.079 --> 01:24:04.359 should get together to put together this book. And I said okay, and 1058 01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:10.399 we made a deal that if I sold the book, my name would go 1059 01:24:10.439 --> 01:24:13.239 first. If he sold the book to his publisher, his name would go 1060 01:24:13.319 --> 01:24:15.359 first. And we talked about this and he said, well, we've got 1061 01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:18.000 to get Don involved in this, and I said, yeah, yeah, 1062 01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:23.560 we've got to. So we you know, he talked to Don about this 1063 01:24:23.640 --> 01:24:27.119 and Don Don of course came right on board. And then as we were 1064 01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:29.560 thinking about it later on, we said, you know, there are some 1065 01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:31.880 other people who should be involved in this. David Rudiac, for example, 1066 01:24:31.880 --> 01:24:35.960 who's done all that work on the Rainy memo. We need to get his 1067 01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:43.640 take on this thing and bring his information to bear on this problem, because 1068 01:24:44.039 --> 01:24:51.640 if we can get a consensus on what the Ramy Memo says by disinterested parties. 1069 01:24:51.680 --> 01:24:56.640 For example, we've got a document that we've got a clear providence for 1070 01:24:56.760 --> 01:25:00.359 because Ramy's holding in his fist, and we know when the pick sure was 1071 01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:04.159 taken because we've got the documentation from the Bettman photo archives. And so here's 1072 01:25:04.279 --> 01:25:08.479 a document with a clear providence, and if we can just decipher what it 1073 01:25:08.600 --> 01:25:12.520 says to the satisfaction of the majority of the people, then we've got a 1074 01:25:12.640 --> 01:25:16.279 nice piece of evidence. Yeah, that's great and just for people who might 1075 01:25:16.319 --> 01:25:19.600 not know. It's one of the pictures, the famous pictures black and white 1076 01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:26.399 pictures where they're holding the radar, Yeah, when they's got the weather balloon. 1077 01:25:26.399 --> 01:25:30.199 The pictures taken in Ramy's office. There's two pictures of Ramy, two 1078 01:25:30.199 --> 01:25:33.920 pictures of Ramy and Dubau's and two pictures of Jesse Marcel. And in the 1079 01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:39.800 pictures with Rainy in them, he's holding a piece of paper in his hand. 1080 01:25:39.880 --> 01:25:43.359 Well, it turned out in one of those pictures it's turned in such 1081 01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:46.319 a way that you can actually if you've got to blow up of the picture, 1082 01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:50.000 you know, a kid with a magnifying glass can read some of the 1083 01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:54.680 words. I mean, clearly you can read part of it, but a 1084 01:25:54.680 --> 01:25:59.039 lot of it is very obscured. Which words are you confident about, Well, 1085 01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:02.760 there's only really there's five words that at this point of investigation, since 1086 01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:05.399 we're kind of relooking at this, there's five words that I think. There's 1087 01:26:05.439 --> 01:26:09.520 one point where says Fort Worth, Texas. And there's another point where it 1088 01:26:09.520 --> 01:26:15.199 says weather balloons and the balloon is misspelled. But I mean those jump out 1089 01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:21.000 at you, and so truly you can read part of this some of the 1090 01:26:21.039 --> 01:26:26.399 other stuff you can read. Yeah, it looks like it says that it 1091 01:26:26.439 --> 01:26:30.720 may. But in today's environment, as we improve our techniques, we might 1092 01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:31.840 be able to get more and more of this. And I know it's we 1093 01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:35.159 can looked at from a number of different points of view by a number of 1094 01:26:35.239 --> 01:26:42.920 different investigators, not just doctor Rudiac, but some other people are attempting to 1095 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:46.520 get independent corroboration of what this says. And if we can get two, 1096 01:26:46.600 --> 01:26:48.840 if we get three or four of those people, we can get a consensus 1097 01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:56.319 of what it says. Depending on what it says. Doctor Rudiac says, 1098 01:26:56.319 --> 01:26:59.199 there's one point where says victims of the wreck. Well, that's pretty specific, 1099 01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:03.000 right, and discs recovered. Yes, yeah, that's pretty specific. 1100 01:27:03.039 --> 01:27:08.399 There's others who said that the victims of the wreck is actually remains of the 1101 01:27:08.399 --> 01:27:12.319 wreck. Well that's that's a little bit different. But if we can get 1102 01:27:12.319 --> 01:27:16.039 a consensus on some of those sorts of things from independent not researchers, but 1103 01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:21.199 more independent researchers who are disinterested in the Roswell case, then we've got a 1104 01:27:21.279 --> 01:27:26.960 very very good piece of evidence to look at. So you know, we're 1105 01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:29.840 looking we're looking at all that sort of thing. I've spent some time trying 1106 01:27:29.840 --> 01:27:34.000 to get the nodems, which your notices to airmen, which are published all 1107 01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:40.279 the time, and you know what they are is hazards to aerial navigation, 1108 01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:45.800 changes in airport runways, runways are out of service for whatever reason, things 1109 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:49.600 like that, And so I was looking to get to see if the notems 1110 01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:55.439 for July, June and July of nineteen forty seven still existed anywhere. And 1111 01:27:55.640 --> 01:27:59.279 just today, as a matter of fact, I heard from the FOYA officer 1112 01:28:00.199 --> 01:28:06.840 at the FAA who said that all those documents have been long destroyed, not 1113 01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:15.920 improperly. The notems have a shelf life and they would routinely purge their files 1114 01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:18.359 of the notems. There's no repository for them, there was no archives. 1115 01:28:18.399 --> 01:28:21.479 Nobody thought to save them, especially back in nineteen forty seven, because who 1116 01:28:21.479 --> 01:28:27.399 would care. So just today we learned that that avenue of the investigation has 1117 01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:32.199 now been shut down and it's not going There's one other bit of information about 1118 01:28:32.199 --> 01:28:35.680 the notems that may come into play, but we're not going to be able 1119 01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:41.600 to document anything from the notems from the FAA. So, you know, 1120 01:28:41.800 --> 01:28:45.479 just kind of one of the breaks of the game. It's exciting though that 1121 01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:48.399 you guys still work on this, You're still making discoveries, and I think, 1122 01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:53.239 what, of course, what would be ironic? And from talking to 1123 01:28:53.319 --> 01:28:57.520 you and Don and Tom I had them on the show as well, and 1124 01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:01.640 you know, talking to you Owen Roswell, is that it's possible that this 1125 01:29:01.800 --> 01:29:06.760 still may be the case that that breaks stuff open. You still have the 1126 01:29:06.880 --> 01:29:14.720 chance of discovering some evidence that is just like the memo or other pieces that 1127 01:29:14.760 --> 01:29:17.920 you're working on, that may be the one to really break this open and 1128 01:29:18.720 --> 01:29:21.600 show that it's it's credible to the public. Well, we're and we're looking. 1129 01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:25.760 We're looking. We're looking at the stuff that has gone on before us. 1130 01:29:25.800 --> 01:29:29.960 I mean, I've got literally hours and hours of taped interviews with witnesses. 1131 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:33.760 Well, let's see if there was something somebody said early on that we 1132 01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:40.199 missed because at the time it seemed unimportant, but now is incredibly important from 1133 01:29:40.239 --> 01:29:45.319 what we've learned from that from that point, So we go back and reviewing 1134 01:29:45.359 --> 01:29:48.279 all of that sort of thing. I know, some of the stuff that 1135 01:29:48.279 --> 01:29:57.039 we're finding in newspapers about the Mogul project and what Irving Newton, who was 1136 01:29:57.039 --> 01:30:01.760 the weather officer at what were said about this in nineteen forty seven as opposed 1137 01:30:01.800 --> 01:30:05.000 to what he said much later, when we're finding out there's a real contradiction 1138 01:30:05.119 --> 01:30:15.119 there, and that's becoming very important. About the frequency that these weather balloons 1139 01:30:15.159 --> 01:30:18.199 with the radar reflectors were launched around the country. We find out that even 1140 01:30:18.239 --> 01:30:21.920 though they said in the mid nineteen nineties, well, they didn't use them 1141 01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:26.479 very often and they were very unusual and sort of thing according to the newspapers 1142 01:30:26.479 --> 01:30:29.399 back in nineteen forty seven, it wasn't that unusual, and a lot of 1143 01:30:29.439 --> 01:30:32.119 places launched them. So we can go back and in fact, Newton says 1144 01:30:32.119 --> 01:30:34.920 that is quoted saying that in one of the newspaper articles. So we can 1145 01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:40.520 go back and look at that stuff. Right, Well, we're about out 1146 01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:44.159 of time. It was a lot of fun. You're working on a new 1147 01:30:44.199 --> 01:30:47.159 book. It looks like like I had mentioned Murray Island and that's going to 1148 01:30:47.159 --> 01:30:54.199 be in there, including this roads photograph taken in July seventh, nineteen forty 1149 01:30:54.239 --> 01:30:57.079 seven, in the Phoenix area I'm living in, which is a really cool 1150 01:30:57.079 --> 01:31:00.960 photo. And you've done some great work there which people can read at your 1151 01:31:00.039 --> 01:31:05.359 site. Kevin Randall dot bugspot dot com. Yes, they can, they 1152 01:31:05.399 --> 01:31:09.800 can go. They can go. They can go to Amazon dot com and 1153 01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:13.760 if they've got a kindle or an iPad with a Kindle lap on it, 1154 01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:18.479 they can download the Reflections of a UFO Investigator and begin reading it almost immediately 1155 01:31:19.359 --> 01:31:25.239 excellent. And then they can also go to IMDb and read all about You 1156 01:31:25.399 --> 01:31:31.239 and then the movie Start Business You've you've gotten yourself into. Yeah, that 1157 01:31:31.399 --> 01:31:34.399 just cracks me up. I'm I'm I'm in. I'm up there with people 1158 01:31:34.399 --> 01:31:38.880 like Paul Newman, I'm at the Internet movie data by its cracks me up. 1159 01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:42.680 And then your Amazon bio I saw I said you hope to be in 1160 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:47.520 the Amazing Race. Yeah, I didn't remember saying that, but but yes, 1161 01:31:47.560 --> 01:31:49.880 I've always I've always enjoyed the Amazing Race. I know the guy I 1162 01:31:49.920 --> 01:31:54.079 should go go on it with a friend of mine named Tim Bantz, who 1163 01:31:55.079 --> 01:31:59.279 has been a voting rider for twenty five thirty years and they're always sending him 1164 01:31:59.279 --> 01:32:02.079 around the world to voting shows and things like that. And I thought, 1165 01:32:02.119 --> 01:32:05.239 here's a guy that would know the ins and outs of working the airport systems 1166 01:32:05.279 --> 01:32:11.520 to get us to locations as quickly as possible. So I've always said if 1167 01:32:11.520 --> 01:32:13.399 I was going to go on one of these shows, I think it'd be 1168 01:32:13.439 --> 01:32:15.920 the Amazing Race, because that looks like it'd be the most fun. Yeah. 1169 01:32:15.960 --> 01:32:18.560 Well, you're in IMDb, so you're also eligible to be on Dancing 1170 01:32:18.560 --> 01:32:23.079 with the Stars. Now, I think I did not know that. I 1171 01:32:23.119 --> 01:32:27.319 think I will tell you that if they ever got that far off the list, 1172 01:32:28.159 --> 01:32:31.039 I would find a reason. Not that he on it, not when 1173 01:32:31.079 --> 01:32:35.720 you're looking forward to no, but but Sean Johnson, who won the gold 1174 01:32:35.800 --> 01:32:42.319 medal in the Olympics in gymnastics from Iowa de Moine, Iowa, she won 1175 01:32:42.479 --> 01:32:45.439 Dancing with the Stars. So I say that because I live in Iowa. 1176 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:48.800 Gotcha. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I 1177 01:32:48.840 --> 01:32:54.479 think obviously there's a lot more to talk about, so hopefully you'll come back 1178 01:32:54.520 --> 01:32:58.399 and we can catch up on more of what you're always up to. You 1179 01:32:58.479 --> 01:33:01.199 have the phone number, yep, I sure do keep it on file. 1180 01:33:01.800 --> 01:33:06.840 Yeah, there you go. All right, Thanks, thank you, Thanks 1181 01:33:06.840 --> 01:33:13.399 for joining me again everybody. That wraps up our show, And no worries, 1182 01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:15.079 we're still gonna be around. We're still gonna be here doing shows. 1183 01:33:15.199 --> 01:33:20.159 UFO Think Tank Rocks and of course, for all of the news that I 1184 01:33:20.319 --> 01:33:26.079 talked about earlier, you can find that at UFO Daily Dotdailynews dot com. 1185 01:33:26.119 --> 01:33:29.760 You're gonna need to make this your new source for UFO news. If you 1186 01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:34.960 haven't already beautiful site ufodailynews dot com. You can get to UFO Thing Tank 1187 01:33:35.039 --> 01:33:39.479 there. Also, you're gonna have stories on the front page. But at 1188 01:33:39.479 --> 01:33:44.000 the top you're gonna see the UFO news Feed and if you go to that, 1189 01:33:44.520 --> 01:33:46.840 you're gonna see several stories. I mean, this is up today. 1190 01:33:47.199 --> 01:33:53.319 If you go here hourly, you will get the latest and the best news 1191 01:33:53.840 --> 01:33:57.359 and you're just gonna be floored. You're gonna be like, ow do it. 1192 01:33:57.439 --> 01:34:00.920 This is amazing. I am up to date by the minute with the 1193 01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:03.520 UFO news going on. How can I get anything better? And you can't 1194 01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:11.520 because it doesn't get any better than ufodailynews dot com. Also, maybe next 1195 01:34:11.520 --> 01:34:15.880 week, but very soon, I'm gonna have more exciting news because as things 1196 01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:20.119 change, sure they're different. Sure you're scared, you're thinking, what am 1197 01:34:20.119 --> 01:34:24.640 I gonna do? Is love Jason? Love Jason. Jason's gonna be around. 1198 01:34:24.680 --> 01:34:27.960 He's my good buddy. I'm sure we're gonna have him on the show 1199 01:34:27.960 --> 01:34:33.159 again. We're gonna get him back. But change can be good because there's 1200 01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:39.000 gonna be new and different things going on and it is gonna be exciting. 1201 01:34:39.800 --> 01:34:45.359 Speaking of new and different, I really need to give a shout out to 1202 01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:53.359 my good buddies who gave me actually a new close song which you're gonna hear 1203 01:34:53.399 --> 01:35:01.920 in a second, and that is written by these cool dudes named Nick Reyes 1204 01:35:02.039 --> 01:35:08.720 and Pablo and the Ras Viva Vivas Pablo. I love the name anyway, 1205 01:35:08.800 --> 01:35:11.960 Thank you Pablo sent me this music. I love it and I'm gonna be 1206 01:35:12.039 --> 01:35:15.920 using it for my close music. So thank you very much for joining us 1207 01:35:15.960 --> 01:35:20.159 once again with UFO Zinc Tank Radio, and we will talk to you next 1208 01:35:20.199 --> 01:35:21.560 week. People, are you