Coming up this week on the mar cast. Well, if you thought after
the successful completion of season one of L twenty twenty three, they were just
going to rest on their laurels, think again. The XFL making league white
cuts, doing the little downsizing. Matt Damon, should we be worried?
What's happening here? Do you understand that you will undergo the permanent and irreversible
medical procedure commonly known as downsizing, and that your bodies will be approximately point
zero three six of their current mass and volume? Nervous a little? Well,
I certainly did not foresee layoffs happening so soon in the executive branch at
the XFL following the championship game. But here we are, chief marketing officer
gone, the VP of Marketing and Branding gone. Should we worry? Is
this cause for concern? I have smashed the emergency class, the professor Andrew
Murray. We need to have a discussion. I mean, it was essentially
the Black Monday for the entire marketing staff of this entire league. And look,
you and I have talked about it at nauseum, about the marketing strategies
that have been implemented or not been implemented since this league came back out of
the dull drums. And then on your regularly scheduled program, we have Evan
Wilsmore coming on. We have created a watch list XFL players that still deserve
a shot in the NFL. Already had players signed off of our list.
Since we have recorded, we are bringing Evan on deep dive who still deserves
a shot in the NFL. It's a numbers game, right someone has to
get injured, you know, something has to happen for that spot to open
up. And I do expect more to come for sure. And then we
are still talking USFL. On the podcast USFL Week eight, we have Furbi
of Rendissims coming on full preview of the weekend's matchups. I thought they might
like kind of spights it up a little bit, you know. This year
one, you know they you kind of give them a free pass on some
stuff. But then here too, you think you might make some changes,
and so far it's kind of felt exactly the same. And then we are
one week away from the CFL kickoff. We have three CFL team previews today.
JJ Adams over at post Media talking to BC Lions Mike Hogan of the
Toronto Argonauts previewing the Great Cup Champions return here. And then we have Steve
Milton of the Hamilton's Spectator full CFL team deep dives. We are getting ready
for kickoff Ereston. Probably going to be a long one. Hope you enjoyed.
Hey guys, welcome to the Mark ass read here. Was really just
getting ready to preview, you know, do the CFL previews here. We
had a big segment planned with Evan, you know, talking all the XFL
to NFL our watch list, our wish list, whatever you want to call
it. And then we had big layoffs this week at the XFL. We
did the shorts about it earlier this week. Janet Duke be let go,
Anthony Zucconi, a lot of the sales members from a bunch of the teams
across the league. League is kind of reformulating here. Redbird had a performance
review following the season, kind of going in a new direction with some of
this. Going to get all into that today with Andy. Really appreciate that.
Andy and I already had a big segment coming next week. We had
our whole episode plan, but we're bringing Andy in early as well. We
need the professor here talking through all of that. Really appreciate Andy making the
time. Like I said, Evan traveling, getting done with college. He
has his watch list, all the players, backgrounds, everything that Evan knows.
A tremendous insights from Evan. Really appreciate Evan taking the time. And
then Ferbie over at Run the Sims. We've had Justin Freeman on in the
past, and certainly appreciate the guys over at Run the Sims doing the dfs
and the stats everything else you know for XFL, USFL and all of that.
And then we are a week away from the CFL kickoff. Hussy's Huddle
and I are going to be doing a live CFL kickoff pregame show a time
TBD, but obviously before the game. They're BC at Calgary next week.
That game is going to be at six Specifics, so you know, probably
four four thirty there we'll be doing a CFL pregame show. I try to
get some more guests lined up for that. Should be a good one.
And then like I said, Andy and I are going to probably be having
a special live episode next Friday, June night. So if you want the
CFL stuff, come for the pregame show. We're going to be doing that
on the eighth, and then our normal show will most likely be a live
show with Andy if his busy schedule allows it on June ninth, and they
keep in mind, we've had lots of info as well today about the rookie
Draft and all of that. Then I'll be talking about with Andy. Rus
Julio and Doug Whaley were on the inside the league call with Neil Stratton over
there. We are going to be doing an XFL rookie Draft live show.
Hopefully they're on that June sixteenth. They've said it could be in the afternoon,
could be the evening. Waiting for them to pin down the time,
but look for a cavalcadive guests. They're talking the XFL rookie Draft, most
likely for a kind of fun live show. They're on June sixteenth. I
think that's it for me. I we'll check back in at the end of
the show. Thanks again. Well, Andy, we were all set up
next week. We were going to do our big live episode offseason, like
what should the XFL be doing next? Thing? You know, and we're
breaking glass. We bring the Professor in first and foremost. Have you seen
the Matt damon movie downsizing. Do you know the reference I'm making with this
episode, I actually have not. When you first posted that thumbnail, I
was a little bit confused, and then I had to look it up.
I've seen a lot of bad David films that has not been one on my
list or even my bucket list. So you don't have to fill me in
a little bit more on that one. Oh yeah, well, no deep
dive in that. But it is interually downsizing because the premise of the movie
is, you know, people and consumerism is scoff Scott's so big. People
are shrinking down. You know, we're using less resources, we're more consolidated
a little bit. How I feel about the XFL here with some of these
layoffs, we'll talk through all of that. Is this a good thing,
this is a bad thing. I know you have thoughts and I have thoughts.
You know a lot of people north of the border having thoughts and everything
else. But to set the stage here, this was Tuesday, coming off
Memorial Day. You know, we just you know, we're celebrate the championship
game all this. I really thought it'd be a couple of quiet weeks.
Evans already on this episode we're doing the XFL players to watch and did the
NFL. Next thing, you know, I get sent a message from Fran
who was on the you know, the live show in sam wherever the heck
we were San Antonio, and he goes, hey, look at this and
it was one of the people that was working for the Vegas team and they
had posted on Facebook that they just got laid off from their sales drop.
He goes hey, read like and started doing some digging. I send it
to the group, you know, Mike goes hey, I think changers are
coming. Dada da da da. You know. Next thing we know,
Mark has this article out huge sweeping cuts Janet Duke, you know, CMO
of the league gone, Anthony Zucconi, he was a VP of marketing the
brand gone many We've heard upwards of thirty people kind of across the teams and
everything else. What did you because I know you're working and stuff, and
I'm like, we got to talk about this. What did you think when
you heard all these layoffs? First and fourth us, I mean, it
was essentially the Black Monday for the entire marketing staff of this entire league.
And look, you and I have talked about it. At nauseum about the
marketing strategies that have been implemented or not been implemented since this league came back
out of the doldrums. And I mean, we can get into a lot
more of those details as the show goes along, but I think the basic
point that we came to the conclusion that we came to multi times that quite
frankly enough, was not being done to promote this league. Now, I
have no doubt and in no way, shape or for him, think that
it has to do with the effort of the people who are behind the scenes.
I think they put in as much effort as you could probably ask for.
I do think one of the things I have to consider is that number
that Mike Mitchell has reported a couple of times about the budgeting of the marketing
strategy, like it was somewhere around one hundred and twenty thousand dollars or something
in that neighborhoods what he has mentioned in his articles and has mentioned on air
a couple of times. And so my initial thought when it came out was
was this because of the financial limitations or was this because of the strategy not
being implemented as Redford Capital and perhaps the league saw to what they envisioned,
you know, and maybe it's both. I think we've been learning more details
since that's happened, But that was my initial reaction when I heard that news.
And it's hard, you know, so of course I immediately and I
want to pull up Ben's article here. So Mark had the story Ben Fisher,
who's been on the show, and you know, I felt we were
more apt to talk about this now. I mean, Ben's just reporting the
facts. I think, you know, as much as I respect, then
I think we can run through this a little bit better than he can getting
the statements out the the idea that I had people messaging me. That people
message me like, is this a good thing or a bad thing? I
said, well, we have had criticisms all year about the marketing of this
league, and I never want to see anybody lose a job. You never
want to see anyone you know, Janet's been there forever and Anthony was there.
Janet was a team president of the Guardians back in the day for twenty
twenty. Like, I don't want to see that. But if it's something
that you and I and many people have complained about all year, and they're
immediately making changes to fix that, and you know, people had to lose
their jobs. That to me is at least we're like recognizing this and we're
adapting and not like, well, let's like roll it back again, because
I think they went into this they be Danny Jerry, you know, the
Rock to whatever extent he's involved, having a certain perceived notion of like what
this was going to look, and feel like, you know, who's going
to talk about as what kind of marketing do we actually need to do?
And then now realizing after year one, oh, I think our preconceived notions
were very, very wrong. Is that do you agree disagree with anything of
that? To some extent, I think what it tells me is that clearly
that benchmark that we kept referring to of twenty twenty clearly was in the minds
of the marketers in terms of the league's operations this entire time. I know
it's unfair to compare it to that point. I get it in some ways
because it was a different time. It's a different ownership, different you know,
just a different mantra that surrounded the league in a lot of ways.
A lot of the rules and some of the players and Obviously some of the
legacy people stayed on board, especially in the marketing department. We talked about
that, Like you mentioned with Jana Douche, She's coming from the Guardians and
they had a bigger role here. You had some other holdovers from that that
regime. But it clearly I mean, look, even though we can make
a lot about how, you know, attendance figures for some of these teams
increased as they were went along, the point of the matter is a lot
of them were down on average from their iterations of the teams that were here
before or in comparison to say another league. You know, like I said,
the AF, I mean, we kept going on and on and on
about San Antonio. How they I mean, the Commanders were drawing, you
know, twenty five thousand plus people for that league in the short time that
it was alive. And here you have the Brahmas, who are kind of
a centerpiece. I know they're they're not the hub, but they're kind of
another centerpiece in this operation. And the only time that they broke twenty thousand
the entire year was their first game in the regular season. Next time was
the championship game, and even that didn't top that opener, So you have
to wonder about figures like that and how they compared them or how they measured
them. Clearly, whatever metrics they were using were not good enough, and
this is why these changes were made. I think it's just like you said,
you never want to see someone lose their position over this. It's it's
sad because a lot of people lose their jobs, and it's it's a league
of opportunity, but it's opportunity to the point of what's going to be done
for the league and what's going to be done for the brand. And before
Andy and I get too deep, I'll pull up the article here. We
are going to talk the rookie so that the zoom came out the inside of
the league with Neil I rest Julio was on that, Doug Whaley, we'll
talk about that here at the end. It is kind of looking forward here
they're moving on. But obviously this is the pressing news, you know,
obviously leading the show with and then we'll get to that. Because I do
it looks and feels very similar to the USFL College Draft. I don't think
it's totally the same. Call me hypocrite or not. I've been talking with
people about that today, in fact directly, so we can kind of get
into that. But to read through this Benefisher article because I think there's some
interesting notes here. So obviously x Bel dismissed Emo, Janet, Duke,
and Desiconi as part of a broader set of cuts generated by a strategic review
of the league after one season. So Red Bird apparently went in following the
season said we're going to kind of look through this what didn't work. Extra
officials declined to say precisely how many jobs were eliminated. They fit into two
different buckets. One group are now deemed seasonal employees, and that could be
a larger notion of a lot of like the you know, outside of Jane
and Anthony, some of these people contracts. Okay, we don't need you
working like game day events of the c Dragons games. We don't need you
there in August, you know, we need you there in February, March,
April, but don't I don't want to get two seasons on this.
We'll talk about that one of the season, though they could potentially trended their
jobs closer than the second season set to starting in February. The other including
Janet and Anthony were done after a review determined the league should shift from a
brand marketing emphasis seeing appropriate that launch, to a more revenue driven approach to
maximize ticket and sponsor sales heading into the critical second season. That to me
is the more interesting part. What do you make of that, because I
do want to talk seasonality. Also, it tells me that the bottom line
was not being met or it wasn't being met in the way that they expected.
And again, yes, I think the brand itself in a lot of
ways was pretty strong all those things considered, and from the holdover from the
last league, from it being in the cultural zeitgeist. Really since it was
created in two thousand and one, you know, it has a lot of
currency, It really does. I think people still fail to understand how much
currency this league's name has, and I think that's why ultimately the name was
not changed. Like I know you've talked a lot about that with some of
your guests, about like what if Danny and the Rock came in and just
made it their own league and just reinbranded it. Well, quite frankly,
I think this is just a brand that was too strong for them to give
up. That being said, clearly there seems to be too much emphasis put
on that brand and expecting, oh, this is going to draw people back
in and reel everybody back in from two twenty and resting on those laurels not
happen. It didn't happen to the extent that we saw back then. And
because of that, while you were able to have traditionalists like the Saint Louis
fans and DC the beer Snakes and things of that nature, you had some
other new traditions that were starting up with San Antonio and Orlando in Vegas and
obviously some of the other teams who had held over even Seattle. But you
you've been on the ground floor of Seattle's entire year. You know, straight
straight up it has not been the same level of engagement, just in terms
of the attendance and also in terms of maybe the advertising too. That happened
three years ago. So obviously with those kinds of numbers across the board,
obviously they need They are trying to drive up ticket sales, They're trying to
drive up interests in their membership, They're trying to drive up interest in merchandise
sales and everything across the board. They and their sponsorships. They clearly see
this as the bottom line that they were not able to achieve, and there
was too much emphasis on why had been achieved before and just kind of living
off of the coattails of twenty twenty. Well, and that's you know,
and to say it, I don't want to be too blunt about it,
because I've talked with Mike and meum the reviews episode that we did with Mike,
and it has come up a little bit. If you look at the
major Temple successes that you would say that they had citywise this year, I
would say Saint Louis DC, Seattle was not a success. That it wasn't
twenty twenty. I don't know if you could name any others in those two
that you would you would deem that was like an unmitigated success. And if
any of those that were success any that were done by current regime, right,
all of those were, you know, Saint Louis DC carried over from
twenty twenty. I don't know if you could say of any other city or
any newer city that was seen the success this time, right, and even
markets like Houston. You know, Houston obviously was also successful as a team,
but in terms again of the intendance numbers, not so much. You
know, you had a little bit less round across the board there. Arlington,
I mean seemed about the same as it was before. I mean,
I think that has more to do with the confines of the stadium and the
structure of it. But you know that was that was kind of a break
even situation. Orlando. I'll be honest, Orlando did not do as well
as I thought it would. I really thought Orlando was gonna be a better
market. Now again, that's based on my premonition of how the Orlando Apollos
did in the AF and who were doing very well as far as their attendance
numbers, and yet they were not able to achieve that same level of success.
And you know, look, who knows, maybe the same thing would
happen if they were in another AF market, you know, Memphis or Utah
or San Diego. Would they have been able to like San Diego is the
third highest AAF attendance, would they have achieved those numbers? I don't know.
Clearly, if they didn't put that enough emphasis in the marketing of that,
that wasn't going to happen. And I have to tell you read like
again, one of the things that I can't help but remark at again is
just how much local marketing was not being done at some of these levels that
we've we've covered, we've talked about, and just doesn't seem to be as
known or as prevalent this time around. It just it was there three years
ago. It was there in some way, shape or form, and this
time around it just was not there. And you can argue about, you
know, network television exposure, you can talk about it being only on ESPN
and ABC and not Fox and as it was you know, last time around,
but the fact of the matter is it just wasn't there this time around.
And it's you know, splitting the difference with a different league. Now
it's a different set of circumstances. But based on their numbers, they did
not achieve their goals. And you know it. We'll talk through and Max
has all these notes. I ultimately think a lot of that will go into
our conversation next week of like what do we want the offseason of the XFL
to look like with in terms of social media and kind of local events and
all that. But at least right now, you know, when it comes
to the where they want to do some of these jobs that they want to
get rid of the you know, from focusing on the brand to more revenue
driven right maximizing, maximize ticket and sponsorship of sales. There has to be
some sort of standardization across the board from these teams when it comes to ticket
sales. You know, Corey the commit the Guardians ticket guy. Corey posts
every day on every Facebook and Twitter and TikTok and come, hey, I'm
sitting at the fifty yard line, Come buy tickets. Come like Corey is
an example of doing tremendous work on his own. I presume grassroots because there
certainly doesn't seem to be standardization. I think the Siallo guy and I hopefully,
you know, I don't know if he sells a job. You know.
I think the guy's name was David. I think I just know that
because I kind of like went to the pick a Seed event and I,
you know, talk to hey, you know, I host whoever, like
you know, we're here. But I don't know the Siallo guy. I
don't know that, you know. I don't know the Arlington guy. I
don't know the girl, you know, I don't know the San Antonio like
the fact that you don't even just have standardization like that across the eighteens and
like, hey, these are going to be our team reps, call them,
email them, get in touch. They're posting, they're you know,
outside of you know, Hailey or whoever with the c Dragons posting that content.
You're trying to drive up ticket sales. No one. I mean,
it was a far cry from Orlando and then a drop to any of the
other seven teams. And I just don't think that that's fathomable. I just
don't understand that. And I think that's interesting you point out about the lack
of standardization. I can't help but think about another league like the CFL,
who kind of deals with that same issue in some ways. You know,
you have so much varying levels of promotion and engagement, whereas you have someone
like BCS of our Doman really putting in the capitol and trying to get people
to go out to Vancouver or Victor Qui trying to do everything you can,
just trying to pull out all the stops to give people to go into Edmonton,
versus you know, your community owned team, the Saskatchewan And then you
have Winnipeg who kind of rests on their lows and has their own success.
And then there's Toronto, which everyone sort of you know, points out as
the black sheep of the family in terms of being able to draw attendants.
All of them having these kind of varying levels of success and engagement in their
own way, and there's not a lot of standardization there. Same things kind
of happening here too, Like you said, just but to interrupt that,
I apologize the CFL at least that makes sense because you have nine different heads
of teams all coming together with Randy Ambrosi kind of like, right, that
is Ambrosi's role as a commissioner. I got to wrangle these nine governors of
all these teams. The XFL you're a single owned entity team of anything.
You should be able to standardize this across because you own everything. I mean,
we're not even to the point of the USFL or the XFLA. We're
franchising these. I mean, of any time to have it all working together,
it's this time right now. Yeah, I mean, why do you
why is it it almost like bleeds into like the social media aspect of it
too, And I know that's it's not always related to like sales, you
know, ticket sales and all that. But like it even seems to bleed
into like some of the mantras of the teams, like why is it you
know, the Seattle account's always you know, on controlling people. Meanwhile the
Arlington Renegades account just seems to wage war against capitalization and it does not and
continues to be the bane of Anthony Miller's existence. But I can't help but
like feel you're right, like there should be some sort of level of like
flat base level standardization that is being done for all these teams um in that
in that respect, especially when you have you have clear markers of who owns
this thing. You have you have the figureheads who have ultimate control. There
are no owners There are is no ownership group that you have to negotiate with
or battle with that doesn't you know, the revenue sharing all that. It's
like there's not something that is there in that terms of that level of um
of parity. So I don't understand why that isn't being done on that level
either. I have to agree with you on that. Well, if you
can't, if you know, if you can't parent your kids under your own
household, I don't think you're going to be able to parent them out,
you know, when they're off into the world. Like if we can't get
this right on and all, you know, Like you know, it goes
with the USFL as well, like if they think they're gonna franchise this thing,
which I believe is ultimately the goal, Like I mean, you can't
do it now with Fox and all the money and you got everything in the
world here that we're gonna you know, it's it's this is what we do.
We make football. If you can't get it all right now, it's
I don't know how these franchises are gonna work because you can't as we've seen
it, Like we said in the CFL, I don't like seeing that level
of disparity. I don't like seeing you know where I've been told Saskatchewan they
don't do anything because they know people are gonna come. Like I've emailed them
to get people. I've done all that. Montreal, anything you want,
Hey, you want the team owner, here, you go, let's send
them over, you know, like anything, because they understand that. But
you shouldn't have you should at least, you know, we talk about parody
in the USFL right now with teams going through the playoffs. You should have
some parody here with these uh you know teams in terms of marketing and sales
and everything. Yeah, I mean the on field product I think will continue
to have parody, and there's definitely gonna be that at least you have that
ability. But when you're not having people who see that in person, it's
kind of hard to draw them into that if you don't understand that, if
you don't have people that understand the notion of Okay, well, this team
wasn't very good this year, but they could be better next year, like
Orlando, you know, and again this is year one, so we don't
we haven't seen this played out. I know this happens in the CFL all
the time, which is kind of honestly, is a blessing for teams like
the Red Blacks for example, Like, yes, you've been terrible the last
few years, but you could dig yourself out of the hole and actually make
a great Cup run if you really tried this year. Then the same thing
could should be under the notion of this XFL league, which I think is
very possible. But again, the people there's not enough people who understand that
and just overall just the lack of outside awareness of some of these brands.
You know. I mean we've been we've been reporting left and right about players
getting signed, but I mean you go into the threads of the teams in
the NFL who signed these people, like people that just didn't watch these guys
or haven't seen their highlight tapes, and that's something that the league has to
get on now. I know, again it's year one, so maybe if
they actually start doing something at the next level I'll start to do They'll actually
start to look back and realize, oh wow, this guy did this this
past season. But they don't have that level of exposure yet. So you
need to get out in front of it and really push the envelope if you're
going to get people to understand that exposure instead of just being word of mouth
or via your player's success or coach success. I do feel a little less
old man screaming at the clouds right now, just with it. Where remember
basically came in and kind of assessed the same thing that we've been doing here
this whole time. Here, let's get there, because I want to read
this statement here that Mark got for New sub and then Ben got This is
from the xcellent spokesperson, Dan Is this Gagniere Gagnier. I don't. I
don't know if I've ever spoken with the showman. As the XFL plans for
twenty twenty four and beyond, it is the time to transition. You do
a dual full time seasonal base kind of going through all that, the x
MEL will continue to employ a full time business and football operations functions about the
team and the league in team levels, and will scale up hiring each year
for preseason and in season role. That's what scares me is because we saw
what the skeleton crew did this year where we brought and I understand we're not
going to be hiring eight hundred people again in the I yes, read,
I understand that, but you know, we saw what it felt like and
looked like this year onboarding and seasonal employees. At the same time that you
have training camp starting, players are showing up, we're doing physicals, we're
learning the playbook, we're doing media stuff. We're trying to get to social
media set. Like I don't, I don't like this scale up, scale
down, and a CFL does it. They go dead from basically December and
they do their little team meetings, but you know they pop up in May
when training camp starts. The day that a spring football league realizes that they're
not a seasonal business will be a day that I'm very happy because I don't
think it works well. I mean I thought that they were already trying to
do that with the draft next month, for example, they already announced that
draft. That's good, Like, that's that's something that they need to do.
Now that they get to keep doing that as they go along. Now
they have the showcase. Those were good. Keep promoting the showcases by all
means necessary. To promote the showcases as much as you can post about it,
talk about it, write about it, do whatever you can to post
about it. But yeah, I mean some of these people are seasonal employees,
which to an extent I understand when there's not a game action going on,
it's hard to get people involved. But you should see it more in
the lines of you know, like stadium employees for example, right, like
people don't work out the stadium because there's not an event. I get that,
But in terms of promoting, in terms of you know, being keeping
it in the cultural conscience this entire time, you need to keep doing that,
Like, what's I mean? I know, I know he's a very
busy man, but I wonder about someone like Josh Lewin likes the podcast just
going to disappear for the next you know, seven months. I mean,
maybe you have an answer to that, but I wonder about stuff like that.
Well, that's what I was gonna say that, Yeah, obviously we
don't need and like the lady that does the DC in game announcing the late
they're kind of you know, it's it's like the Adam Goss of the you
know, for the DC, where he's the argos guy and he's screaming and
during the games. Like, you don't need to keep her employed all year.
I understand that, Like we bring in and we did Dad Day.
Yeah, but you know, Josh did. And I understand Josh is busy,
but Josh is paid by the league, and I'm sure the league would
pay him if they felt necessary. Yeah, Josh did the post championship episode
and they haven't posted, right, why not interview some of these players they
just got Why don't we call up Darius Shepard right now and go, hey
man, you got to the Chargers. But it's like, you know,
we don't go away like we don't have I don't have an offseason here,
and I know that we cover the other leagues, but we've talked to XFL
every week and we have planned to continue talking XFL here into the summer.
You know, you saw it, Maddie. I'm done, Like season's over.
I'm done. Mark hasn't posted. Mark did his obviously story this week,
but Mark hasn't posted anything. Josh hasn't posted, Like, you can't
just let this go away. That's what everybody can play to about the USFL.
All last year, USFL goes away because you don't have anything going on
to keep it in the news cycle at all, and it's just not sustainable.
And it was really frustrating to me to see how many people were like,
I'm all in this year, including the XFL, and then the second
the season's done, it's like like We're that's it, We're going off,
you know. And I understand people work hard, right, I understand that,
but like you don't. You don't get there's no there should not be
an off season. There is in an off season in the NFL. There
shouldn't be an off season here. I mean, well, this kind of
information is coming out, but this is not the kind of information they want
to have in the off season, right you want. One of the things
that I want to see done in the fall season is I want to see
more player profiles, but player profiles on people who have made it into the
NFL, who make the fifty three man roster, or at least you know,
are factoring in in some way on the team that they're on, and
be able to interview them and ask them, you know, how, what's
going on, how's it been, what do you take from your time in
the league, and how has it helped you in your experience now in the
NFL. I think that's something that the league should absolutely think about doing,
because you know, we get player profiles all the time, but being able
to see that like transition period too, I think would be fantastic for the
league, especially if you know, possibly you could see someone like Darius Shepherd
having a big kick return for the Chargers, or you know, Hoki Butler
maybe catching a touchdown for the Steelers, like something of that nature that you
can at least draw from and sort of see those parallels between what they learned
in the XFL and then what they brought over into this league because you know,
again seeing commentary on like Shepherd's signing, you know, I tried to
fans who are like, oh, I don't know what this means, and
it's like, this guy's a special Team's Player of the Year and the XFL
this year. He's a good kick returner. He's going to supply competition for
a team that doesn't have a designated kick returner right now, Like, that's
just that's the fact of the matter. So I think that something that they
I think that kind of content would be one. That's just one idea I
have, But yeah, they need to stay on this. They can't just
turn off the lights and disappear, and which they kind of did last year
too, right, Like I mean, yes, we got some announcements,
but they were really putting us in the dark for for a lot of build
up into the league, and that is just mystifying for a lot of us,
And I don't think that's what you want to do, especially if you're
trying to go from year one the year two. You can't do it like
the USFL does this year because there's gonna be numbers like you see on the
USA Network or on FS one like we've seen with some of the attendance figures
where it's like they're just not going up, they're stagnant. And there was
just because, in my opinion, there just wasn't a lot done in the
promotional material besides the Super Bowl ads for the USFL that we're being done all
the months beforehand going into the season. This is gonna will try. I
don't want this to be just a complain fest the whole time, but I
do think this is viable conversation. I don't this is going to sound like
Reid is angling to work for the XFL. I do I owe my own
business. I'm very happy I do. I spent all day to day enditing
the wedding video, very very happy for that have weddings this weekend. The
XFL kickoff for us was episode one hundred and thirty two of this podcast.
Now, obviously we have covered ex USFL and the Spring League and the CFL
and all that stuff. XFL has always had a say with every single week
on this show for one hundred and thirty two episodes, without a single game
of XFL content being played, and most of the time with you know,
very limited resources to the league. Now obviously they've been tremendously helpful once think
you know, once everyone got on board, the XFL has been great.
I have no complaints if we can figure out one hundred and thirty two weeks
of offseason content talking about the XFL, like I'll consult for free, guys
like it's not it's not hard, but yeah, players, like we're getting
it. I would have had I would have Josh on the phone right now
with Darius, like what is going on? Talk me through this? Like
we said, what do you think about the new kick returns in the NFL?
Are you We've heard Kavante Turpin talking about that, how he's going to
run it back anyway? How do you think that you know you spotlighting here?
Is that going to change how teams look to feature you now that that's
all going to be different? Like it just it doesn't have to be that
difficult, and I don't like anyway that's my point. Sorry, well,
no, I mean I have to give credit bouncing off that. I have
to give credit to someone that you had on your show last week, John
Hodge and his employer's predoun Nation. Look, he said on this podcast this
week, I was listening he said that they did a uniform ranking and that
generated a lot of buzz. That's content. You know, it's because there's
some new uniform matches, matchups for some of these teams, obviously the Camerad
blues for the Argos, and some of the redesigns for the BC Lions,
and a lot of other uniforms that are kind of getting rehashed and sort of
reformed, and that created content. If they're doing that, I mean,
why isn't the league doing that? You know what? What's going on with
the aspect of just trying to create any sort of content whatsoever. I mean,
one of the things the NFL does, for example, in the off
season, and I mean the YouTube channel is one of their best resources,
at least for me it is. It's just posting highlight videos, videos of
old games, legacy videos, things of that nature that really help them continue
to stimulate content. I mean, right now is like the dead period for
the NFL. I mean, there's really nothing going on, but yet there's
still things that they're able to kind of create conversation for. And I mean
even something like you know, oh, is Jimmy Garoppolo going to fail as
physical with the Raiders. Like that's something that just got everyone, you know,
kicking the tires and buzzing around and asking Tom Brady questions, are you
coming back this week? And him having to come out in the woodwork and
saying, no, I'm not doing that. But like that's the kind of
thing like you have to somehow, just like almost stirring the hornet's nest a
little bit. You know, sometimes there's got to be a way for leagues
to understand this, because, like you said, you are someone that understands
that and creates content on a regular basis and a weekly basis when there's nothing
going on, And for many iterations of you doing the show for the existence
of the XFL, there really was nothing going on. Did John Hodge bring
up our podcasts on their show right now? But I did not hear that.
No. I scared that, Like you know, I gave John the
hall, gave John to follow, I gave Hodges to follow here. Let's
see what happens. I want to talk through the rookie draft and kind of
all that stuff anything else, because I don't want this to you know,
I again, I feel like this is constructive. I just don't want this
to be like verbal especially just on my part, like verbal diarrhea here.
So anything else you want to make sure we touch, We'll do the whole
offseason talk next week, whether we want to see social media do and the
Vegas deal and you know, a local fan events and kind of all that
have anything else, like where we fire Janet and everybody else. I just
don't think this is an alarmest as everyone wanted to make it out to be
at the beginning of the announcement. I get it. When you hear layoffs,
your first reaction is, oh my god, the company's going underwater.
What's going to happen? That happens. This is the kind of story that
comes out for many kinds of different entities. Now, in this case is
an entity that has not been around that long, so of course your level
of skepticism is maybe a little bit higher than it is with someone like say
Google or Amazon or Twitter or something of that nature, where something all of
a sudden, mass layoffs are happening and you're starting to you know, set
the house on fire. But I just hope that the league is able to
understand where it's going. I think they have a clear vision, but they
need to understand what resources they have on hand, and if they're going to
be more revenue driven, if they're going to be able to keep the interest
going, they need to understand and how they have to go about it.
If it's going to be the same offseason as it was last year, I
don't see many results changing, quite frankly, But if they are going to
actually promote themselves a little bit better and shift gears, and if whatever strategy
they implement this time around with the new employees or people who get into consolidated
roles, all right, then let's see if that works. But this is
something I think you and I both agree that things need to change, and
I think Mike Mitchell and perhaps others would agree with you that there needs to
be at least a shifting of the gears. Here. At last point,
I'll make two. If we're going to do this, try to pitch to
people a little bit better about your Vegas team playing on the equivalent of a
pasture field, because getting people out the cashman was really a chore this year,
and you need to be able to get people involved in that market.
The Vegas market is something that they really have to push for, and obviously
the sales team unfortunately fell on the sword for that one, and look Redward
Capital Jerry Cardinal maybe had a more play in that as far as getting that
out there and involved in having that market out there. But they've really got
to be able to push that because if you wanted to make it work,
you're going to need to push, for lack of a better term, push
more of your chips in the middle of the table. The last thing,
and then I do have one concern here I wanted to forget to bring up.
Yeah, when I heard that the Vegas when it was the Vegas individual
they had posted that they were let go, I immediately thought, oh,
they're relocating Vegas. And then all this other stuff came out and you're like,
okay, it's much bigger than that. I did see CFL people like,
oh my god, you like they laid off the whole marketing staff,
Like that's crazy. I bet you a lot of cf fil fans would be
very happy if the CFL laid off part of their market, you know,
like I mean, it's you know, it's it doesn't. It doesn't doesn't
necessarily mean the budgetarian. But here is my fear. If this is if
we're trying to consult, you know, if we're downsizing, and if we're
trying to consolidate, if they get rid of Janet who you know, for
what they were given, I think we're doing their best. Do we just
have someone at Redbird also do this kind of thing, which to me is
is worse because then you're getting someone even further away, like at least Janet
knew. Okay, this is what was going on in twenty twenty, this
is what worked in New York. That's my fears. Okay, now we
want to save costs, We're just going to have other Redbird people do part
of this stuff. For the XFL. Yeah, I mean that plays more
into the hub strategy in a way. But it does sort of question as
to whether that's going to change the winds at all or if it's just going
to make things just more more consolidated and more conservative in terms of how they
operate. And that's something that I'm beIN gonna be able to get away with
that it seems more in line with what they're going with for the USFL,
for example, that's more of a line with their strategy. And I have
my thoughts on that, and I don't know if there's any way that the
XFL is going to be able to implement that same strategy. Look, people
invest their time and money into this league. There are people who really put
themselves forward and invest their time and money, and we need to see the
league do that too. You know, you can downsize all you want,
but you better whatever strategy you implement, if you're going to be outsourcing,
you better outsourced correctly. Well, but I mean that's my thing is you
know, I think we were talking about it and Mike. I think Mike
was the one that kind of originally brought it up in the group chat and
I said, that's a Fox Sports special. Hey, we got so and
so's do an NFL on Fox social media, Like, let's log you into
the USFL account for a couple hours. I just that's my fear because at
least Janet knew what was happening, like what worked. It was like she
was on the ground floor from the guinty, right. That was that was
my fear. When they got rid of over Locke and Jeffrey Pollock was like,
Okay, we're losing some of this identity that was here, right,
We're losing you know. Same with Sam Schwartzee and all that. You know,
you start kind of shedding the past if you do it too much.
I'm a little concerned that they have someone kind of freelance this alongside other things
are riper, Yeah, like just giving too many responsibilities to one person and
somebody who's not really has their finger on the pulse of what's actually going on.
And you know, we've talked a little bit about that with USFL.
There's sometimes some consolidation or some people that may be involved who are sort of
have their hands on too many baskets and aren't really all in on the operation.
So that's something that I don't want to see from the XFL either.
I would really not prefer that's the route they go unless somebody is really be
committed to this league, like be committed to what's going on, be committed
to the product, the brand, and everything that goes into it. Because
let me tell you, the coaches, the players, person all the fans,
they're all invested. Then everybody who's working in this league needs to be
invested as well. And just my last point we've seen now there was concerns
we have red Bird, they want to make money. There a capital investment
firm. The second the season was done, they came in and said,
these are things that we're not like, we need to get rid of these
immediately. And I, you know, I think Vince. We talked.
If Vince was burning a lot of money and doing a lot of things,
who knows if that would have you know, XFL would have lasted into season
two or three with the churn rate they had. I just you know,
and then this is what happens. Do we have an investment firm and all
of that. All right, so we are going to pull up I want
to get through this all time code this too, so you can just if
we want to talk through this, I'll pull up marsh article. I watched
the Zoom today as well. If you guys, I would recommend if you
are a player, and I tweeted it, if you're a player, is
supposed to dming me or Evan or Pat or a like. How do I
get into all this? The ins I have the league on YouTube. It's
about forty six minutes. Has everything you would ever want to know about the
XFL offseason here, what they're looking to do with the showcases, with the
drafts, multiple drafts, all of this stuff. Russ was on there with
Doug. The big things were obviously the rookie draft coming up. I think
it's going to be ten rounds at eight picks. They're going to have a
secondary draft in the fall and then a supplemental draft in November. What do
you make of this rookie draft because it feels very USFL college drafty, but
I'll explain why maybe it isn't. But what do you think? I think
it's a little bit different. It's not just drafting someone's name out of thin
air, and from what I've collected that they weren't players that were known that
we're privy to knowing that they were actually being drafted by this league or that
they were even eligible for the draft. So for the XFL, it sounds
like it's a little bit different in terms of them actually drafting people who are
undrafted free agents and may not be making the rows in the in the NFL,
which I mean, those are the kind of people that should be targeting,
right That's that's that's the kind of players you want to look for.
Are they have a multitude of players that they're looking after, but that's one
of the pools that they're looking at they have multiple, multiple avenues to go
about this, and I think that's something that if there's a player that doesn't
make the practice squad and the fifty three man roster, that they have a
way to at least have some sort of kind of I guess um hammock or
like net to be able to fall into in case they are not able to
make it past that point. I was corresponding today with someone that's pretty closely
involved with a lot of this stuff and just saying like, hey, I
really appreciate that this was done so that we could kind of see what was
going on because there were so many concerns when it came to the USFL,
not concerns like the usfls college out. Okay, what is this like are
you guys? I just I appreciate the transparency that Russ and Doug had on
the call, and like, you know, we're still working through some of
the stuff, and this is why, like we're not sending out contracts because
we're still trying to figure out if we're going to get unionized, and so
we don't want to have the contracts to be sent out if we're going to
unionize. Even the reason why they had players signed for one year with a
second year extension versus signing people for two years. I think the timing of
this is good, and Russ was the one that said it. Russ is
one of the guys. Would they running all the showcases and doing all this
stuff. If you're an NFL player now wanting to be and it's the middle
of June, you know you're not getting into a camp. Most likely you're
not getting onto a squad as opposed to sitting around and saying, what the
f am I going to do with my life now for the next six months.
Getting drafted into this having your rights retained by one of the teams,
it gives you more of a sense of purpose for that where you know,
timing wise, where the USFL draft did it? You know, immediately following
I think it was even before the actual like draft draft, all of those
players in their heads still think I'm making it to an NFL roster? Why
would I want to Why would I want to be this? Where now,
like you kind of know your lot in life at least for this kind of
calendar cycle. So I think timing wise, even if they're both fundamentally the
same in terms of we're just you'd never have to step a foot in the
XFL. We just have your rights. I think timing wise, this makes
a lot more sense mid June than it does mid February. I think so
too. I mean, once like, the draft is a dream for everybody,
and it's a dream that you want to buy into. And that goes
for all the people who are drafted or undrafted free agents and are assigned onto
a team, you know. I mean, there's all there's a litany of
players in the NFL who were undrafted free agents that ended up being great players.
And I think they still had believe in themselves even when they weren't picked
on those days Thursday, Friday or Saturday or back on the old days when
it was just two days. They don't really feel like they are out of
it until they're truly hold that they're out of it, you know. And
in this case, I think they at least have more of a reality check
of the situation and they kind of start to see, all right, one
of these cutdown's going to start coming, or where am I in the in
the queue or the list of you know, prioritization with some of these with
the coaches in terms of the opportunity that I truly have. I mean again,
it's it's a nice other option, and you know, it's going to
be interesting to see where the XFL goes as far as keeping some of these
players, retaining some of these players too going forward, and people who know
or want to just be XFL lifers. I mean, this year you had
more examples of players who came in for one year were like, Hey,
this is my one year, one month shot, and then I'm out.
You know, t J Barnes, great example, he went up one more
year, he had a great year with the Renegades, got his ring and
pieced out, and now he's onto his next stage in life. Great,
awesome, fantastic. I think there's going to be more players like that going
forward, and maybe some that are more realistic, and maybe some that just
have more fun and just say, hey, I want to be guaranteed playing
time, Like playing is a big deal, it really is. Some of
these players want to get on the field, and the NFL's cutthroat. You're
not going to get that all the time unless you have the absolute right situation.
And I think some players are going to be in that realm of just
wanting to get out there and just play and develop too. Development is such
a big thing, and it felt the NFL is so it can be so
brutal and also just so impatient with players sometimes saying I don't know what this
guy's doing. I don't know where he is. He hasn't gotten anywhere,
and it could be their first two years or three years of development, and
some of these guys just don't come on that early, you know, you
really want to wait and tell simone like someone like Jordan Thammu being in the
NFL, being on a practice squad at twenty two, I mean, quite
frankly, his skill set just wasn't there this past season. I think he
has a much better shot. I mean he has jumped leaps and bounds as
a quarterback, and that took the year, you know, that took years
for him to get to that point and mid season even in this year.
So I just think there needs to be more realistic stock of where players are
as far as where they are and being developed, and especially like you said
in the June timeline, it just makes a lot more sense in terms of
recruiting, getting people into the system. Yeah, so it seems like and
I think it was Russ said, all any XFL draft now is basically going
to be open position. Right, We've kind of we've done our initial one.
We're not rebuilding every team from scratch. There's gonna be this rookie draft
here on the sixteenth. They're ballooning up the offseason rosters up to ninety.
There's going to be obviously they're doing the showcases all year during the summer here,
there's going to be the six Nick Novak's going to do one. They
obviously could add more that's going to go. They're going to funnel those best
players into the combine. All of that's going to kind of be included,
and it sounds like a September draft that's going to be going on, and
then they're going to be having maybe a November draft. We kind of get
final NFL cut. So I don't think any of them are going to ever
be as big again as like the initial but kind of different stopping point so
we can stock up players because it basically it's hitting three unique subsets, right.
These are players that kind of maybe have anything going on right now.
You get the guys that are kind of trying to find their way in the
showcase and do that. If you're not because the rookie draft, you know
it has to be this year, you know you were eligible and not drafted.
If you're an older player, you can do the showcases and all that,
and then obviously the NFL cut. So it seems like they don't want
to let anyone fall through the cracks. Is that am I kind of understanding
that? Absolutely? I think so just keeping all their options open and having
as much pool assessment as they can, and also just you know, signing
players midseason. I think that's something that's a big bigger deal in these leagues
too, is mid season acquisitions or trades. As far as some of these
players moving around. I thought about this morning, if I'm looking at it,
the two teams that won in the past two years in the USFL and
XFL. I think about, like the USFL added Bo Scarborough, right,
he wasn't drafted initially, he was just kind of flowing out there is you
know from the Detroit Lions. They add him, he gives them another element
on their run attack, and he helps them win a championship. Rennegates this
fast year. You know they didn't have Elie Prez. They traded for Lae
Prez, the entire season changes. Some of these midseason ads are a really
big deal for some of these teams that players that are only even in the
draft pool initially are not available at that time, but then later on they
are. So even just the mid season acquisitions too, in addition to these
drafts, this is a multi month process, you know, it really is.
And I think that because of the fact that you don't have these players
who stay for a long term and if they play so well, they're just
gonna move on. You know, you're not going to have sort of like
the same mentality as far as a talent acquisition and all one base like you
do with the NFL. The NFL is just it's the draft, it's free
agency boom. That's it, as opposed to in the XFL and the USFL
and the CFL, where it's it's all year round, you know, it's
just whoever's available moreever time and any reason at any points. So it's that's
also part of why they also the news cycles I think can also bear to
be a little bit more year round, because I mean, the players are
moving year round there there this is a constant cycle for them too, and
like how they they were saying. I think it was Doug said they they
this first batch is obviously off of guys that maybe were invited to the NFL
camps and didn't you know, didn't make it. Kind of they're sitting here
in the summer because like, hey, they were good enough to be brought
into an NFL camp, Like, let's kind of streamline some of our resources
here where maybe we don't have ten thousand hours to you know, spotlight everything,
Like hey, they've already done enough work to kind of deem them worthy
to be in this. It was funny here I was going down and I
saw I'm like, oh no, they made the video private. I think
Mark must have embedded. They posted the wrong zoom last night, so that
must be this one, because I thought, oh my god, no they
because this has such good information and that if you go on the inside the
league, it's still the correct one is still there. It has a hundred
in sixty five yews. Think of all the players that DM Mike, I
said, Evan Sam every one hundred and sixty five years. It tells you
everything you need to know. So anyway, I'm not trying to sell that.
The last note and then we can probably get out of here soon.
They asked about the NFL Alumni Academy, Doug said, they have not heard
from them. Feels weird. What do you make of that they're kind of
moving forward like that's not a thing. Yeah, I have a theory that
the relationship with the NFL Alumni Academy might be terminated as far as this season
goes. Look, it was I'm not going to call it a mess,
but there did. It seemed to be some miscommunication as far as what was
going on earlier last year as far as what's what number of players need to
be allocated, who was guaranteed a contract, who was going to get on
some of these rosters. There were seemed to be a bit of a snaff
food with that as far as what the league promised to maybe what the NFL
Alumni Academy expected, And they kind of rectified it a little bit before the
season started as far as expanding rosters and allowing more players to get on.
But the fact of the matter is, I think the NFL Luma Academy expected
more, and I think the XFL. I think what the XFL realizes that,
oh well, actually, maybe there's more resources than we realize initially.
There's a lot more players out there in different ways that we can collect this
talent, and we don't necessarily have to rely on the NFL alumni academy.
And that's not so much the fault of the NFL alumni academy. It's just
what the XFL found out worked for them. So yeah, I have a
feeling that relationship may not be around much longer, and to no fault of
either side, I think, just not a relationship that was going to be
amicable. I mean, look this IFL thing, right, Like this IFL
partnership for example of the XFL, I don't know how much that's really good
a factor in the next year those guys going to move up from the IFL
into the XFL. I don't know, you know that what kind of partnership
that is. It's good more clout for the IFL than anything, So IM
not really, I think the XFL is kind of piecing this altogether, right.
They're all saying like, all right, this works, this draft works,
this scouting profile work, this showcase work. Maybe this is more where
we need to go, Like they're clearly, I mean, the number of
boosting showcases clearly tells them, Okay, let's put more of our capital resources
than this than opposed to in the NFL alumni academy. So they are piecing
that together themselves. I mean, it's the same thing like the CFL trying
to global draft, and you know, people have their opinions on that whether
that works or not. I think all these leagues are figuring out whether or
not that where their talent acquisitions work and where they don't. So yeah,
I don't think that that relationship between the alumni Academy XPEL is going to be
around much longer. There were surprisingly a lot of questions on the zoom about
the IFL with agents because I just it must have been like, right,
many of the agents on the call where you know, representing guys in that,
you know, they said, we want to we don't they can.
We want them to focus on plane, you know, like if they're in
the playoffs, were knowing that they can, we will see them and know
that we can get a spot. I think it Doug said, we would
much rather see them playing football than running around in their underwear or the combine,
like, so we're going to see the football and all of that.
But I think with the alumni thing, it's kind of like, you know
how like some weeks on the podcast, I have like seven guests. It's
like why does It's like because I ask a lot of people and I don't
know if everyone's gonna say yes. And I think that was kind of like
the XFL, like let's let's kind of get all these things go in because
like what if we don't have anyone that wants to play in our league?
And then next thing, you know, it's like, oh my god,
we have so many players, Like we're you know, we're flushed with cash
here. It's like having two dates to homecoming or something. Well, I
mean they spent months talking to the CFL and talking about a partnership, and
I mean they turned no stone unturned for this league. Really, they looked
through every option possible. Whether you debate whether they should have been involved in
those options, that's up to you, but like they were committed to doing
their homework. I will give them that credit, like they I think that's
something that honestly, I think something like the CFL could learn more from as
far as like just explore your options, see what you got out there,
see who wants to partner with you, who wants to do this, who
wants to work here? You know, the XFL whether it works or not.
I mean, they're kind of just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing
it sticks in some ways. And you know, they want to be more
consistent and more standardized and being more of a league. Sure, but they
clearly were trying to do as much homework as possible the first two years before
they started up again and see what was going to work for them. And
I think they're learning now, which you know, we to go back to
the top of the episode. The marketing wasn't up to par Okay, maybe
the alumni academy relationship wasn't good enough. Okay, we'll see about the relationship
with the IFL moving forward to a partnership. You know that, like all
these different levels of things that they tried at the beginning and in the middle
of their process, if they're going to continue with that. They clearly don't
seem to be afraid of switching gears and going another direction because they believe in
their product and they want to be successful and they're taking risks. Not all
of them are going to work out, and they're right to be criticized for
things that they didn't do well or they could have gone about a different process,
but you know, at least they're trying. Yeah, it's so weird.
I guess my live week aldgo on. I mean clearly forever talking about
all that stuff we just got. If you're enjoying this conversation, Andy,
I next week will plot out the entire XFL offseason. But it's one of
these things like even nowadays, like I just know this, and I don't
know if it's the thing nowadays, like you're not able to like people aren't
able to change their mind or like if you change your mind, like you're
a hypocrite, they're like, oh, you deleted the tweet, Like like
what it's like maybe you thought a thing and you were wrong, or like
I talk a lot with the CFL people now, and I was like,
yeah, I probably didn't know a lot back when I was, you know,
when Paul and I were fighting a rash on here, Like it doesn't
mean that that you're a hypocrite or you know, it means you educated yourself
or you move forward. It's to stay with the XFL here, Like it
wasn't like they went into it like We're gonna calm the Alumni Academy out of
like they thought it was a good idea, they tried to do it.
I could have told him it was too many players and they you know,
I could have told him Cashman Field wasn't gonna work. I couldn't have told
him a lot of things. But you know, I don't know, Andy.
I feel like we could tell a lot of people a lot of things.
But uh, anything else from you? I appreciate this. We're almost
at fifty five minutes here. Anything else from you before we get out?
I mean, just let me know when the next alarm bell is rung and
I'll be there, ready, ready to go whenever you needed read Andy.
Yeah, put up the bat sing though? That really is what is it?
Batman like he's got It was whether the new like ben affleck ones or
Christian ban where he just screams like punish call me, or it's one of
his screaming ones. Oh um, uh you say swear to me? Is
that to me? Yeah? Among amongst his mini lines, Hey, listen,
if anything else, If I can't be your Robbin, you're Batman,
at least try to be your skip to your your Shannon because that because we
hey, we got shoes to fill. Now, buddy, we got we
got big shoes to fill. How did I forget? That's how late in
the day we're recording. How did I forget? Not too started the episode
off with we have now we haven't outlasted, but we've out we've outlived.
And now Skipp and Shannon, which I didn't they didn't talk about it today
on the show, so I think they're just trying to kind of play coy
until the end. We're talking like Miami Heat here at Celtics or whatever.
Uh yeah, just heat and nuggets, the matchups. I'm living in the
don't don't make Sam come after you, you know, our resident Denver Denver
I Sam Sham Shady. Yeah. Anyway, thanks you guys. Well we'll
see you next time. Take here, Hey, guys, future read here
editing the episode. And we already have two additional players from the XFL signed
to NFL contracts via the Battle Hawks today announcing we have Marcel Eightman signed to
the Buffalo Bills, and we have friends of the show Darius Shephard signed to
the Los Angeles Chargers. I know Eddie Murray is especially excited about that one.
I know Evan and night time throughout Darius in our interview, and I
just wanted to keep you guys up today. But Darius and Marcel getting signed
here contracts, it could have more. I hope you guys enjoy Evan and
nice chat, but always good to see. I think we are twenty five
and twenty six players now signed through the NFL via the XFL, so good
for them. Well, here we are, Evan, back from LSU.
Still on the grind. Here, Evan, we talk a lot about how
impressed everyone is with all the work you do, and this will be no
different. Today we have Evan willsmore here, we are talking the XFL to
NFL kind of we're tracking who's got signed. We have twenty four and now
who we're still keeping our eyes on and everything else today. Evan, how
are you doing. I'm doing great, man. Yeah, you know,
I appreciate all the kind words. It's it's good to be back from college,
you know, over the summer, but I'm still working. You're definitely
right about that. It seems like life just gets faster and gets busier as
you get older. So it's one of those things you have to realize.
But I'm excited to be on here today and excited to talk about some players
who you know, we think should maybe go to the NFL or at least
get a chance. Some of them are have already been to many camps and
you know, we'll make note of that, I think as we go.
But yeah, I mean there's a lot of good players you know in this
league that played in twenty twenty three and excited to talk about some of them.
Yeah. So we have here and Max has put together work. Evan's
guy. The list is what we're kind of mounting, is this is the
list we have thus far, the twenty four players signed. We just had
Brandon Dillon here with the Washington Commanders Vegas Vipers this week as of recording.
Obviously things could change here through the end of the week before this goes on,
but twenty four players are Evan. Are you surprised with any of the
players you've seen that have gotten signed thus far to the NFL contracts? As
I tried to address with microphone, Yeah, there's definitely been some surprises,
I think from my perspective, but it seems like that happens in every spring
league. You know, there were guys going back that I was surprised about
in twenty twenty, and you know, the AFROM twenty nineteen, and you
know, even some guys maybe in the CFL. But yeah, I mean
for the most part, it's a pretty solid list. You know. Again,
I'm glad that guys like you know, some of the real standouts like
Lucky Jackson maybe you know, um Jock Wispatrick Luke Barku obviously was a really
good one. A couple of guys on the BattleHawks that I really enjoyed.
And then the CEA Dragons have had a lot of players signed. I was
definitely gonna bring that up. I mean, he just look at that sheet
there, you know, I think that's six players so far, and it
definitely felt like that. But yeah, overall, I mean, not a
bad list. Definitely hope it continues to grow. I will say, maybe
I expected a couple more by now, Maybe I thought we'd be pushing thirty
or a little over. But you know the thing is that these NFL camps,
you know, are starting to get so you know, full up right,
and a guy like who would talking about later Jakor Pierson I think should
be signed already. And I know the forty nine Ers were really interested in
him, but you know, their roster was at ninety and I think Mike
Mitchell was the one who mentioned that. Um So again, it's kind of
just it's a numbers game, right, someone has to get injured, you
know, something has to happen for that spot to open up. And I
do expect more to come, for sure, but it's might be a bit
more of a slow process. I know, Brandon Dillon from Vegas signed with
the Commanders yesterday and that seemed to be the first signing in a couple of
days. I think the last one before that was Lucky Jackson to the Vikings,
if I'm not mistaken. So well, it's interesting and we've talked about
this before on here, and obviously you know XFL twenty twenty in the way
that that season ended, and you know, we got a lot of players
that went over to the NFL, a lot of them that they're still there
to this day, USFL filling the gap last year, and then now obviously
with the XFL and the USFL either, you're really getting kind of this backlog
now of talented players trying to get spots. Not saying that it's not going
to happen. Blank you said, you know, injuries, we don't want
to see that. But it does open up this gambling probe that's going on
in the NFL other things like that, So it might, you know,
kind of curtail into the summer. But it's definitely a different scenario than it
was even three years ago with the XFL twenty twenty. Oh absolutely, you
know the XFL when they finished that I guess first or second season, however
you want to put it. In twenty twenty, that was right when COVID
started. You know, in the NFL there seemed to be more spots open.
That was the time where they were expanding practice squads things like that.
So it definitely was a different time. And you know, I'm not going
to turn this into a debate about, you know, which version of the
league was more talented, whether it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty three.
I'm sure I know people that are on both ends of that spectrum. But
yeah, you're definitely right. It's a different world now, even just three
years later. You know, the politics are different and there's a lot more
that goes into these things than there was before. So we'll get here we'll
pull up. Evans got his list. Like I said, then Max was
putting together work as well on this, and we kind of consolidated this down
a little bit here and we can go team by team touch on this a
little bit obviously. Renegades, you know, champions here, XFL champions coming
in late you know, there was a lot of debate even a couple of
weeks ago, like how come the defenders guys haven't got trads yet? How
come the reteguates? You know, we're moving to that there through the championship
game. I don't know if that if that will delay signings or not.
It is the kind of something to track here, like do you want to
make the XFL playoffs in the future, do you want to kind of get
out to be able to get in that first way? But who do you
have here highlighted for the Renegades? Yeah? Right, so I've got three
players here for the Renegades. Tyler Vaughns, the wide receiver from USC definitely
impressed me. Later on in the season once the offense kind of got going
with Louise Perez. Again, there wasn't a lot there to write home about
early on between Kyle Sloder and Drew Plitt. That's nothing against them, right,
but you definitely, I mean we always talk about this sort of transition
in the Renegades second half of the season, or maybe not even second half.
I think it was around week seven when they got Perez and started turning
upward and eventually winning the championship. But Tyler Vaughns was a guy who really
impressed me. And then the one that really stands out here the most I'm
going to kind of elaborate on is Donald Payne, the linebacker from Stetson.
He's a bit older now, want to say, he's maybe twenty nine,
but he really shine last year with the Gamblers, and I was surprised that
he wasn't picked up by the NFL again. And if he doesn't get picked
up, you know, at least for a camp for a bit or something,
this time around, I'm going to be equally surprised as well, because
you know, even if this guy is a bit older, and maybe you
know in the NFL nowadays, they favor more younger players that are coming in
to compete with you know, the undrafted free agents that the team has signed
on to the ninety men roster. You know, Donald Payne is someone who
I think, even at that age, still deserves a shot. And I
don't know, I want to say the last time he played in the NFL
was maybe twenty nineteen, I can look that up. I know he was
with the Jaguars for a bit there very early on. But again Donald Payne
again extremely impressive and it really showed too, you know, the difference he
made compared to when he was on the field for the Renegades and when he
was not. And then the last guy for the Renegades that I have as
Marquette King, punter from Fort Valley State. A lot of people obviously know
who Marquette King is. Spent many years with the Raiders, was a second
team All Pro punter in the NFL, then went to the Broncos for a
bit, and then was with the BattleHawks in XFL twenty twenty, and then
this year he was with the Renegades. Obviously a fan favorite, someone I
got to meet during the XFL season. And you know, for him,
again, he's an older guy as well. I believe he went undrafted and
signed with the Raiders in twenty twelve, so you know he's getting up there
in age, But I mean he was really impressive this season too. You
know, clearly he's still got the leg and still got the swagger too,
you know, a bit of an ego, and he's just all around a
good guy, and I think it would be nice to see him, you
know, at least get into an NFL camp again. Punter is one of
those positions where a team is only going to carry one of those, so
you know, maybe he's one of these guys that kind of sneaks in at
the end of December or something, you know, if an injury happens.
But yeah, Marquette King has kind of one kind of one excuse me that
I wanted to throw in there as well. Now I agree with Marquette obviously.
I posted a couple of weeks ago, Kyle brand Over on Good Morning
Football did a segment about that talking and you know, obviously Marquette with his
big single he has released in coming off of the championship game. Yeah,
Donald Paine, a friend of the show from this season. I think it's
an age thing there. Like you said, you're surprised obviously even last year
with the Gamblers, just a couple of there's just so I don't get yelled
at here. You know, we had t J. Barnes, we talked
about Thom's I La, Lily DeVante, buzzby, Josh Hawkins, Joe Pale,
Taylor, Russolino here coming off of ready to get any other notes or
comments on any of those players. I mean, again, Russolino was a
specialist. He impressed me a lot this year. Thought he was one of
the better kickers in the league behind John Parker Romo, who obviously is now
signed with the Lions from the Brahmas. But you know, again, kickers,
another specialist position was they're only going to carry one of those guys,
right, So Russolino, I remember at the end of twenty twenty played in
a game for the Broncos and that was one game you know he got signed
and that was just kind of what it was. So yeah, I got
like terror Russolino. You know, you might see him come in like at
the end of a season or something like that, in middle of the season
as an injury or replacement. But you know, obviously, yes, he
was impressive. Yeah, RUSI he had that really that was that tough game
at the Broncos. I remember that it was like the win game and he
missed on that. We were so exciting for him. I remember because even
obviously podcasting at that time, like it was great stories to have on at
least Perez. I don't know, I don't know if I see him making
the spot here at this point, even having won the championship game. I
think, Tayamu, we can get on that. Any brief thoughts on the
last Perez here, what's next for him? Yeah, well, I'm glad
you brought up Perez again. This was not a guy that was on my
list, and I feel like, you know, again, he's sort of
one of these guys where he's not He's definitely not in the twilight of his
career because we saw what he could do with the Renegades. He definitely had
an uptick of in performance at the end of this twenty twenty three season,
and he was very good with the Generals last year in the USFL in twenty
twenty two. But you know, after even after that, you know,
he had a season with the Generals last year they lost, you know,
before they got to the championship. He was brought back to Rams camp.
You know, obviously he's kind of won over. I think Sean McVay and
those offensive guys, even though it's been a couple of years since he was
last there. But with that being said, you know, I feel like
he's at a point in his career where he might be one of these guys
where, you know, he just kind of sticks it out in these spring
leagues. Maybe he just hangs around with the Renegades, tries to you know,
build things, recruit in the offseason with Bob Stoops and the rest of
the coaching staff, and of course you know the DPP as well. So
I think personally, for me, he's a guy I would like to see
just kind of stay in this spring football realm. I don't know, I
just don't really see a benefit to him going back to the NFL at this
point. And that was something that he mentioned in one of the press conferences.
He said, you know, me being able to do this, you
know, whether it's the XFL or the USFL, or the AAF or the
spring league or all these different places that he's been. The one benefit is
that you actually get tape and you get to play, as opposed to sitting
on a practice squad or just getting a couple of preseason reps. And I
think that's kind of his ceiling in the NFL at this point. It's just
those preseason reps, you know, kind of practice squad guy, you know,
maybe I don't know. Yeah, just it's someone who would not really
be active on game of days, is the idea. Yeah, you get
into that, and I think this is the same missal Canella here where you
maybe you pop into that a couple of times, maybe you feel a little
bit more expendable, even if obviously you've had you know they'll able to play
in all that. The thing with Louis Perez I and we've said this kind
of like, how does the XFL maintain here coming forward? You have to
have some of these guys that are just going to be XFL or USFL.
You know, I either when you got to have these guys that their bodies
moving forward that you know we're going to be there kind of mainstays. I'm
moving on to the roughnex Year obviously, a team that you covered thoroughly here
for new sub you got was it six year? My eyes or are hurting
me? What do you make of this? And who are you looking for
from the Roughnecks? Yeah? I believe I have five on that list,
but I will say, because I was there in all the home games this
season, I would have probably put ten or fifteen because I love all those
guys. And again this is where maybe a bit of my bias comes in.
But regardless, this team still didn't have talent one way or another,
you know, whether I'm biased or not. The guy really I wanted to
point out here out of these five is the first name, Max Borgi,
running back from Washington State. You know, of course he was playing in
a past first offense with A J. Smith, so didn't have a ton
of yards and didn't he I think you only averaged three point nine yards per
carry over the course of the season, which isn't exactly elite, But if
you watched him during the season, you know, I'd like to say numbers
don't lie, but they also don't tell the full story. And he's one
of these players that I think falls into this category because you know, he
might have not had all the yards or all the you know, high averages
or whatever, but he was you know, his runs were just so shifty,
and especially his ability to run after the catch, you know, coming
out of the backfield. He was a great fit for that offense. And
I really hope, you know, he was with three NFL teams last year
in twenty twenty two after going undrafted, so he definitely didn't have time to
really sit down and learn a playbook. He was bouncing around so much.
So I really hope that he can at least get into a camp and get
some preseason reps and just stay with one team most importantly, you know,
whether he latches onto an active roster or you know, which would be obviously
the best thing, or even you know, just makes a practice squad or
whatever. You know, I would hope that it's kind of just more consistent
than when he was last in the NFL. So what's going on with John
Trey? My mouth isn't working this John here? What's going on with him?
And obviously coming off of you know, the injuries and everything else,
or what's he looking at? Yeah, So John Trey Kirkland was obviously invited
to Giants mini camp, as I had you pointed out reported whatever, but
I said specifically, he is not at a point yet where he is recovered
to actually participate in Giants camp. So from what I understood from people on
the inside was that you know, he was going to Giants camp just to
meet with the coaches kind of talk things over. It was more of an
interview, right, something you do during the pre draft process. Perhaps,
so he went in for the interview and it was assumed that he was going
to be signed. As of now, he is yet to be signed.
And again, I'm sure the injury probably has something to do with that.
You know, even I am still sort of unclear on the severity. I've
talked to John Trey on several occasions, and again a couple other people that
would know maybe more about that than I do. But the bottom line is
it's going to take him some time, you know, and it might it
might be one of these things that lingers into the summer, which is a
real shame. You know. I really hope that he will sign or letch
onto a practice squad at some point, but you know, whether he's actually
be able to kind of fully participate in a training camp or you know,
he might even miss time into the preseason, I'm not quite sure. So
that definitely kind of, you know, hinders his stock. I guess you
would say, well, it's good, I mean people because people wanted to
know, and obviously he was one of the standouts from the Roughnecks and then
going down and whether the guys that people have been tragging down there. You
also have Tim Warre trying to Harris and Alex Millett, any any other notes
on them. Um, yeah, so you know Tim Moore was obviously a
guy that got banged up in the second half of the season, but um,
you know him and him and Trent Harris were kind of that you know
batman, Robin duo, whatever you want to call it. You know,
one two punch, you know, coming off the edge. I mean that
defensive law and was just ridiculous. And the two Roughnecks players that have signed
to the NFL, CJ Brewer and Jack Heflin. Both of those guys are
defensive linemen. So that should tell you a lot about, you know,
the strong point of this team, especially them being coached by Bill Johnson,
who won a national championship at LSU in twenty nineteen. But anyway, yeah,
Trent Harris was a guy I'm really surprised, you know that he hasn't
been signed. I think he's twenty seven or twenty eight now, but we
all know the phenomenal season he had and you know he was definitely a candidate
for Defensive Player of the Year. But you know, he went to Broncos
mini camp and you know, he was there with other XFL guys Jockispatrick,
Bendanucci, you name it. But unfortunately he has yet to sign a contract
with them, so we'll see what happens. Again. I think he has
to latch on somewhere at some point. Again, this is one of those
things where the rosters fill up, you kind of have to wait for a
guy to you know, get cut or get injured, or whatever the case
may be, for you know him to be able to come in and make
an impact there. And then the last guy I think I had was Alex
Millett who was invited to Seahawks mini camp and he was an incredibly good center.
Not the only center that I have on this list. I definitely tried
to include a couple of offensive linemen and a lot of them ended up being
centers because there were a lot of top end centers in this league. Center
talent, I guess you'd say, and that is different than you know,
tackle and guard and someone who you know analyzes football at different levels a lot.
You know, we can't just I think there's a common misconception where we
just group all offensive linemen together, but there really is a difference, you
know between again center, guard, tackle, and then even the sides of
the line. I won't get too specific here obviously for time reasons, but
Alex Mullett was an extremely good center this season, one of the best offensive
linemen in general. Again I just said, don't group all those guys together,
but he was really one of the best offensive lineman on that team as
a whole. You know, never missed the snap and he had really high
PFF grades from my understanding. Again, all around, just a good player.
I would hope that he was I think with the Colts last year,
but he didn't end up getting signed. I think he was a final cut
there, so I hope he gets back. Well, i'mlike R. J.
Young, we do like our offensive linemen and lineen here on the market.
So what was that when he had this Like all USFL players who whatever,
he had no offensive linemen on there though, So we have your guardians
a couple guys, maybe not as surprising, just with some of the roster
building that maybe the Guardians would have it. Maybe just if you lest it
would stand out who do you have here? Yeah, so I have two
players on this list. Although I only have two players, there's a third
player I'd like to give a shout out to, and that's Cody Lattimer,
the tight end who, alongside Salconella, was probably the best tight end in
the XFL. You know, he's thirty now, so again with the NFL
kind of favoring age the way they do, I really don't think he's going
to come back, whether this was the last time that he played football or
he comes back to the XFL. Last year. He hinted at that kind
of in a post I think at some point. But yeah, Cody Lattimer
was an extremely good player's second round pick in twenty fourteen. I believe he
was with the Broncos again. You know, it was good to see him
because you know, this was his first time playing really since twenty nineteen.
I believe he was with the Commanders in the twenty twenty off season, but
obviously there was no preseason and then he got cut and then this is kind
of the first chance he's had to play in a while. So special shout
out to him. He's a great player obviously on Max's list there, but
I just think again, this is where age kind of plays a role,
and it would be a real stretch to bring him, you know, into
a camp give and all the other tight end talent is just younger. And
then you also have here in Jamma Martin and Macbrown here at Plant Roleness.
Yeah, so Jamaine Martin again, I kind of thought he was going to
be the guy. Devin Darrington kind of ended up, you know, being
I guess the main ball carrier there, and then he went to Commander's camp
as well, you know, but Jamaine Martin was a guy was really excited
about during the pre draft process. I think it was last year coming out
from North Carolina, Ant. You know, HBCUs school we're trying to build
up, so it's more HBCU representation. The XFL alone has done a great
job of that, you know, with their HBCUs HBCU excuse B showcases.
Last year they had one at Jackson State obviously when Dion Sanders was there.
This year they're doing it at Clark Atlanta University in Georgia, which is a
Division two program. But yeah, you know, Jamine Martin again didn't exactly
flash a ton this year, but I feel like you know, he still
has enough to where he could maybe get another look. And then mac Brown
again another punter m from Ole Miss. You know mac Brown obviously, I
think kind of got some u clout this year, you would say, for
you know, his little trick plays and touchdowns and big passes and that was
all that was really fun at the end of the season. There, you
know, Trell Buckley trying to shake things up for the Guardians, get something
going, get something exciting, and mac Brown really brought that um again.
You know, punter. We've talked about it before and I'll say it again
just to you know, really bring the point home. That's one of those
positions where you know they're only a team is only going to have one.
It's not like receiver where they carry you know, maybe six on the active
roster, five and then a couple more on the practice one. You know,
you kind of have to be that guy. So I don't know if
mac Brown was necessarily like the best punter in the XFL. But again,
it's kind of like Mark hit King, just one of those fun stories where
it would be nice to just see him, you know, come in for
maybe a game or two at some point and you know, just show what
he has. Yeah, that was because some of the highlights are in the
Guardians season. Moving on the Brown here you have you have Calvin turn and
Delonte Scott. What stands out about them? And I'll flip over here to
the other list as well we can see. Yeah, so Calvin Turner heading
into this season was one of the most exciting players you know, that I
had personally. It's unfortunately because he didn't really end up playing this season.
I think he might have been active for he might have been around for a
game or two, but he spent most of the season on the reserve list.
And you know, obviously I think personally I think that had he played,
he would have made a big difference in that Brahma's offense, which continuously
struggled really regardless of the quarterback throughout the season. But yeah, Calvin Turner,
you know, a really great talent, kind of a hybrid player running
back slash wide receiver. I think he projected more wide receiver in the XFL,
especially with the Brahms running back room there with Jock was Patrick and Klin
Balage. But you know, he had also taken snaps at quarterback in college
at one point I think at Jacksonville before he came over to Hawaii. And
then again, he's just a really electric talent and I hope he's one of
these guys again. You know, maybe he gets another shot in the NFL.
But I would be really excited if he came back to the Brahmas in
twenty twenty four and kind of really you know, showed why you know he
still is there because like again, he didn't have that chance this year.
He was injured and that was really, to be honest, it was almost
devastating to me again just because you know, he was like, honestly a
top five player for me going into this XFL season. Maybe that's a bit
high, you know, I can debate that with people whatever, but again
that's just my personal opinion. And then Delante Scott, you know, defensive
end, outside linebacker, edge rusher from SMU, you know, kind of
wherever we want to put that. Again, he was phenomenal to watch all
season. I think his kind of production in twenty twenty three speaks for itself.
So I'm not going to talk about that for too long, but yeah,
him, Calvin Turner and Delante Scott were my two guys and then Max
as Drew Beasley there as well, who was definitely a good player coming here.
With the defenders, I shouldn't surprise here, you know, some of
the highest number coming from really winning the standout teams and organizations in the XFL.
Who are the couple that you wanted to touch on here? From the
defend there's obviously Tamu and Derek King and everyone else. Yeah, so well,
this is where it gets a bit interesting, at least for me,
because here I have two quarterbacks. We haven't talked about quarterbacks yet. Obviously,
you know, the league goes beyond quarterbacks. I shouldn't have to say
that, and I mean I myself have been guilty of talking about quarterbacks for
too long. But with the defenders, I think both of their guys honestly
deserve chances, especially team you know, we had a debate, I think
kind of throughout the season, especially with talmu slow start and their reliance on
the ground game in DC, you know, whether or not this was kind
of like his last gasp. But then again, second half of the season
there was a huge uptick in production and for me, that was enough to
at least warrant him another chance. In camp again similar situation here, do
I think Louis Perez where Tamu has been in a lot of these spring leagues,
and he might just want to settle down and be like, you know
what, like you know, me moving to another state to just go for
a couple months or maybe sit on the practice squad isn't really worth it.
I'd rather just again stay here, kind of build the team throughout the offseason
with the coaches, build a program, whatever you want to call it.
So I think, you know, but he's still in my opinion, you
know, whether he wants to do that or not isn't up to me.
But I think it would have hurt for him to just you know, get
a couple more preseason reps, you know, and then come back in twenty
twenty four. And then the other guy had too was the other quarterback,
Derrett King, one of my again personal favorite players who split his time in
college between Houston and Miami. You know, he worked out with the Patriots.
I think at wide receiver last year after going undrafted didn't really work out.
You know, I still think he has a slim chance of playing quarterback
in the NFL. I mean, he might have to still take reps in
other positions if he really wants to last, like through a training camp.
And that's nothing against him. Again, it's just one of these things where
you know, the NFL favors. Again we talked about age, but like
size, you know, Derrek King's a very a small guy and you could
see that, and of course that works out in college better, but once
you get to the pros, you know, you kind of have to fill
in a more knee role because like Derek played this season in DC, but
he wasn't necessarily the starter. And then it was very odd when they didn't
play him in the championship game at all. A lot of people thought that
was strange. Um, but yeah, he was another guy. And then,
um, I think I had a couple offensive lineman on there too.
Yeah, Liam Fournadell, who I believe was on the All XFL team,
from James Madison, Mike my Eddie, another center from Missouri who you know
might have been for me, the most impressive offensive lineman on that team.
And then the last two guys. I mean, Abram Smith speaks for itself.
He was the first overall pick in the XFL draft and I guess that
was November now, which that's crazy to think about. It does, man,
it really does. But yeah, Abram Smith again, you know XFL
leading rusher. You know that was a home run pick by Von Hutchins and
crew. I won't go on about that for too long. And the same
with Francis Bernard. He was a guy who went undrafted with the Cowboys,
spent two seasons with them, I think between twenty twenty and twenty twenty one,
played in a couple of games. You know, he's got a couple
of career NFL regular season tackles to his name. Um, but he was
a guy who really trust me again this year or two, and I think
he deserves the shot to go back and at least, you know, stay
on a practice squad for another year. Yeah we're talking, I mean,
at least right now. Some of these guys like you know, Tiamu or
Perez to these guys bouncing back and forth at least with the hub model kind
of the same we've seen with mccabel Thomson with the usbelt. Like maybe it
isn't the worst thing. Like you know, you moved to Texas, it's
not as expensive to live. You don't have to live in Seattle or any
of these more expensive cities. You could have your family there kind of training
and maybe coach in the off season. I don't know. It's something to
think about where the hub model, although not ideal for like everything, it
does allow some some more simplicity when it comes to like well, you know,
we could kind of position everyone there and work through that. Ce Dragons
here, Jakor Pierson obviously people know that name. What do you make of
him and the others stand out? See Dragons players. Yeah, so Jakor
Pierson, I mean again, you know, he was phenomenal this season.
I think a lot of people who weren't kind of you know, in tune
with the XFL would probably assume Josh Gordon would have been, you know,
the receiver on that team, just given his pedigree. But Jakor Pearson,
you know, I think was really a step ahead of him. That's nothing
against Josh Gordon, but just to kind of, you know, prove a
point, like sometimes just because you have a big name doesn't mean you know
you're going to be the best player even at your position on your own team
in a league like this. Because Jakor Pearson, again one of these smaller
guys, but he really emerged, you know, split his time in college
between I think well Ole Miss for one. I think the other school is
Western Kentucky. But he's gotten looks now from both the forty nine ers and
the Seahawks, and I would expect him to be signed soon. I can't
imagine, you know, a world where he at least doesn't you know,
get into a training camp because he really I mean, he was just so
flashy the season and again he really proved I mean, you know, he's
five foot seven playing outside receiver. You don't see that very often. Again,
that's one of those things where you might see it in college, but
translating it to the pros typically that's not going to work out. But for
him, you know, if he finds himself in the right offense, Like
again, I thought he would be a great fit in San Francisco, and
they've already worked him out and you know, seeing some of his practice tape
from the Niners camp, it looked really good. I think Shanahan must have
been really impressed with him. So we'll see what happens again. You know,
he's with UM. You know, he got invited to work out with
the Seahawks as well, and you know, obviously that would be kind of
cool just having a Sea Dragons Seahawks connection. I think especially you Reid would
appreciate that. But then the other guy had was Antoine Brooks, the safety
for Maryland. He was kind of all around this year. I think he
was the guy that had that you know, ridiculous interception against DC where it
kind of you know, he kind of came down with it, it was
tipped or whatever. I'd have to go back and look at that. You
know, there's so many players who have to talk about you know, my
memory kind of gets a bit foggy. But yeah, regardless, Antoine Brooks
was definitely impressive this year and one of these guys that I believe he might
have been a draft pick in the NFL. I would have to go back
and you know fact check that. But um, you know came out of
Maryland. I'm surprised he wasn't on the Roughnecks actually, because you know,
our defensive coordinator Brian Stewart came from Maryland. We had a plenty of Maryland
guys, including Sean Davis who used to play safety for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
But that's kind of a just a you know, side note, but yeah,
those were the two guys who wanted to highlight from the street Dragons.
There would definitely be more, but honestly, you know, six of their
players have already sought with the NFL, so I kind of, you know,
had to be. I was looking at the roster and I was like,
geez, you know, like a lot of the names I want to
talk about are already gone. They've already signed you know, wherever, including
d Nuchi. So well that's the thing. And you talk about, you
know, Jakurb Pierson versus Josh Gordon, it is interesting that you know,
Josh hasn't at least for my knowledge, gone a lot of looks following the
season, right, and obviously Philip Lindsay coming in as well as kind of
that veteran. Hey, we're gonna try to get over the hump here,
like you know, I know, at some point it's a lot of DOMINISI
he returns with some of these older guys going back to the league and trying
to kind of rebuild their stock. In terms of we got two more teams
here in terms of the ballot Hawks who no surprise long list here who stands
out. Um yeah, so I'll just kind of go down the list accordingly.
Here. I think I've got five names for this one too, and
then five names for the Vipers. So we're getting into some longer lists now.
But the first guys, Mateo, do you know kind of filled a
secondary role behind Brian Hill, but did have a couple you know, key
moments when Brian Hill was injured, you know, stepped up and he was
invited to New York Jets minicamp, I believe, and um, you know,
our colleague Pat Rifino wrote an article about that. Um. Yeah.
The two guys here that I really want to focus on or the receivers Austin
Prole or Darius Shepherd. Prole obviously was a guy who was in XFL twenty
twenty. He's bounced around a bit, you know, doing this and that,
and you know, got to play for his dad this year in the
XFL. You know, his dad was coaching receivers coach there in Saint Louis,
which was awesome, especially because his dad played for the Rams too and
they won that Super Bowl. And there was that picture of him, you
know as a baby with his uh maybe not a baby, but a toddler
and you know his dad was on the field and they won the Super Bowl
and what a full circle moment that was. Um. And then Darius Shepherd
obviously, you know again just electric this year All XFL performer, especially in
the return department. And you know, it's so key if you want to
move up to the NFL to be able to play special teams. Um,
you know, all these guys that are trying to make a fifty three or
even to practice squad, you know, it's so important to have not just
special teams experience, but to be willing to play it again, you know
what I mean. And Shephard kind of showed like not only can he you
know, be a weapon on offense, but you know he can be a
weapon in the return department on special teams. Again, that's a huge deal
when it comes to guys you know, signing from spring leagues to the NFL
and even out of college too. You know, these guys that go undrafted
or you know, maybe your late seventh round picks or whatever. And then
yeah, the last two guys I had on their Lavert Hill from Michigan believe
he was an All XFL performer too. And then Mike Panna shook the offensive
center. I guess, just center from Michigan State. You know, I
believe he played defensive line in college. And you know, he got to
play against his brother the XFL, which was really cool. But again another
center that really stood out. And I know he might be a bit older
now, but I hope that he too can again just find his way into
a camp. At least it's for all these guys. And I will say
this before we move on to our last team, which is Vegas. You
know, a lot of these guys that's going to be difficult to just make
the active roster right out of camp. You can't deny that. That's hard
for anybody. You know, it's fighting for a spot. But as long
as these guys can just get signed, you know, get some reps,
you know, get into camp, get into preseason, you know, maybe
stay on the practice squad for the course of twenty twenty three, and then
you know, whether or not they come back to the XFL, that'll be
up to them, you know, or if they kind of just hang around
in the NFL like that's not up to me. But I just hope that,
you know, the point here is not to say, all these guys
are going to be on NFL active rosters, and you know that's just an
unrealistic assumption. But yeah, I mean the bottom line is, again,
as long as these guys can at least just get some sort of reps at
the NFL level, that would be important. Thirty seconds of thought about AJ
McCarron, I think he's obviously another one you like Perez here, let's build
something here where it's really kind of invest I don't see him bouncing back.
I mean, obviously he turned down the contract. What do you make about
AJ mccarren. Brief thoughts. Yeah, mccaren's a guy that I think is
going to stay around now. Had you asked me that at the beginning of
the season, I said, nah, he would have been in an NFL
camp by this point. But um, you know, it's clear again age
is one of these things. You know, AJ really really appreciated his time
in the XFL. You can just tell that by his demeanor and the whole
point of him being there was to you know, watch his kids play,
and he can happily do that again next year. I mean, he's already
made so much money through the NFL, you know, having won all those
national championships Alabama, being a draft pick, hanging around for you know,
X many seasons. You know, I think he was drafted in twenty fourteen,
maybe maybe earlier than that, but yeah, he's been around for a
long time, and at this point, you know, I think his kids
enjoyed seeing him play. His entire family really it's it's a personal thing.
So it would be great to have him back in twenty twenty four, and
I know Beck is definitely open to that. I'm sure everyone on that coaching
staff and the rest of the team that's going to be there in twenty twenty
four is opening that because he was a phenomenal talent and he definitely played with
a lot of emotion. Again, given all the given his circumstance, I
guess this year, well, I see him very easily transitioning intil Ballehawks just
coaching staff, you know here and if he I mean he was already basically
kind of working with Bruce and colin the plays and all that last year we
had the vibers Yale McClendon, a couple of friends at this show here,
jepidet Deance Anderson who joined us for our our I guess it was our championship
pregame show who stands out from the vipers there? Yeah, so Jelle McClendon.
You know, this one can be debated. He was invited to Bill's
minicamp along with Quinton Dormity from the Guardians, again two sort of underdogs in
the XFL. You know at New sub we're talking about our underdog award.
It came down to Joe McClendon or Quinton Dormity because those guys, you know,
kind of took I guess you'd say bottom end teams and at least made
them somewhat competitive in the in the this kind of later part of the season.
But um, yeah, McClendon, you know, it's a long shot
for him. He was last I think he bounced around. It was with
you know, Washington and then maybe Baltimore in twenty nineteen, and then obviously
he was with the Wildcats in XFL twenty twenty. You know, I've gone
on record, you know, talking about how that Joey Clinks Jales connection with
him being the DPP in Vegas really helped him out this year more than any
because like I don't think people understand, you know, how crazy it was
for Jalen mcclennon to come in and play like that because he had really,
you know, he had maybe played like a combined I don't know, like
at most it's probably thirty snaps between NFL preseason and XFL twenty twenty. I
mean, he was just not there a lot. So to see him,
you know, go out there and really, you know, prove everybody wrong.
You know, he was even a step above Brett Hundley, you could
argue, and I know, the whole Hunley situation is still kind of weird.
We don't know exactly what happened to him, whether it was injury or
he had a problem with the coaching staff, but even then, like it
was clear, you know, he was better than Brett Hundley, even when
Hundley was playing, and that you know, raised a question, you know,
maybe they should have just stuck with him the whole season. Of course,
Prez was there and eventually they traded him. So it was a complex
issue. But the bottom line is, you know, Jaylee mcclennon, I
do think again deserves to be at least in an NFL preseason, and you
know, when it comes to quarterbacks, We've mentioned it already on this show,
just kind of like like the Louis Pres and the Jordan towns of the
world. Maybe it's better if he comes back in twenty twenty four and just
develops and stays there, you know, with the coaching staff or whatever.
But you know, the good what am I gonna say? The chances are
that, you know, he goes to an NFL camp, you know,
maybe gets cut after that or preseason he's maybe a final cut, and then
he just comes right back into everything in September, so he wouldn't have ended
up missing that much time. That's the key thing here too, with all
these players, if they want to come back in twenty twenty four, you
know, if you don't make it past final cuts, you know, final
cuts at the end of August, early September, like it's not that far
away, you're not gonna be dragged out for months, you know, and
then you're not gonna have to make some you know, key decision, Like
right before the XFLS he's like, Okay, am I gonna play? You
know, because you're gonna have a lot of time to think about it during
the NFL season. If you're a free agent, as long as you don't
get signed me a practice squad or whatever. But anyway, that's kind of
different tangent for another time. Um. The other guys I have on this
list DeAndre Torrey, running back from North Texas again kind of in a somewhat
reserve role with Vegas, but you know, he only went, um,
he went he only went undrafted last year. Uh, you know, signed
with the Michigan Panthers. You know, he kind of took the spring football
route immediately as opposed to you know, testing the waters with the NFL and
then you know, from there he went to Eagles camp and then now he
surfaced back in spring football. I think he, you know, deserves another
shot, even if the numbers weren't incredible. Jeff Bedett from Oklahoma. Um,
you know, I mean Bedet is one of these guys that we've always
pulled for, you know, incredible individual, incredible human. UM this season
really I think for him, and I don't want to take the words out
of his mouth, but it really felt like it was sort of um,
how do I how do I put this? It was like a you know,
hard work pays off type of thing, and maybe that just sounds you
know, very vague, But what I mean here is like, you know,
he dealt with several injuries, and he was on your show talking about,
you know, in the USFL last year, you know, he was
depressed, you know, being away from home, home at the hub and
whatever. That formattress didn't work for him, you know. And then in
the XFL in twenty twenty, he was with the Rennagades, but he dealt
with injuries there too, and it's just, you know, he's always kind
of been dealt, you know, the wrong cards, if you know what
I mean. And finally, for once, even if his team didn't win
that many games, you know, he still had a lot of tape and
a lot of you know, highlights to show, you know, for and
I think again he's an older guy. Now it's been a couple of years
since he was in the NFL, but this is one of those things where
it's like just one more chance, you know, like if he gets one
more camp or whatever, I think that would be really good to see because
he, in my opinion, is incredibly deserving of that opportunity. Yeah yeah,
yeah, very unhappy with this time with the USFL, and I think
very happy that he could play when he said on the show, he said,
I just I need one season uninjured. Let me get my tape,
let me get my highlights. And he certainly did that exactly. Yep,
and that's that's exactly what he did. So good for him, you know,
love Jeff. Great guy. Anyway, Um, last two guys on
this list. Peter Thoma Panu, you know XFL Defensive player of the Year
from Utah. You know, Peter was you know, I think NFL scouts
had eyes on him, you know, throughout the entire season, and it
would be great, you know, to see Peta. You know, to
me, he could be one of these guys that he one of the few
that ends up just making the active roster right out of a training camp,
because to me, he really was that impressive, and it would be a
great story, you know, for the XFL to have a guy, you
know, make an impact on an NFL team in the regular season after his
team in the XFL Wasn't that great, you know what I mean, Because
sometimes there's a misconception where it's like, you know, the champion or you
know, the playoff teams are going to have more players go to the NFL.
I don't necessarily think that's true, you know, and again that's not
to you know, fault any teams or to say that, you know,
certain teams don't have NFL caliber players, because at the end of the day,
you know, I'd say a large majority of the players in these leagues,
whether it's XFL, USFL or CFL or NFL caliber. But yeah,
I mean, you know, a guy like Peter tamil Panio, I could
definitely see him, you know, making an active roster. Um. You
know, the performance, you know, spoke for itself in the in the
league. It was a bit surprising to see him win defensive player that Y're
out right, you know, I would have pulled for Trent Harris again,
whether I'm biased or not, but a couple other people were surprised. Who
are you know, well versed in the space. UM. And then the
last guy had on that list was yeah, Deontay Anderson. And that's someone
you know, I've been talking to a lot lately. You know, love
Deontay. Obviously he was on yours show at the river walking San Antonio there
for the championship. UM. You know, Dante's interesting. You know,
he went to Raiders mini camp two years ago. They tried him out a
linebacker because I believed he played linebacker his senior season at Houston didn't work out,
you know, he doesn't like playing linebacker on the inside. Um.
This season to me and the XFL proved that he can't play safety at a
higher level, you know, because he was the UM leading tackler amongst defensive
backs. But he also had I think nine pass deflections. Um. You
know, again, I see him, like, you know, he proved
that he can play in cover. She's not just a guy you know that
moves up front on the line. He can definitely you know, play further
back and kind of you know, fill a coverage role. Um. So
we'll see what happens again. You know. I know he just got an
agent and he's working through things. Um. But UM, you know,
I would definitely be excited, you know, to see him at least again
just getting a camp and I know he's content with coming back in twenty twenty
four if it does come to that. And I think a lot of these
guys again that we're talking about, I brought it up earlier, you know,
guys that that go you know, even if they do go to NFL
camps, that doesn't necessarily mean they're done with the XFL forever. They can
easily come back in twenty twenty four make an impact. I mean, you
saw it in the USFL. You know, guys who went who were in
the first season in the USFL last year went to NFL camps and then came
back to the USFL after didn't work out. And there's nothing wrong with that,
right. It's all about you know, getting reps and further in your
Career's everyone always says, you know, when they're a kid, you know,
I want to play in the NFL. And you know, whether you
count preseason reps or a training camp, is you know, playing in the
NFL again. That's something that's debated a lot, I think in circles,
but you know, the bottom line is like, yeah, if you're gonna
you know, if the NFL calls and you're playing in the XFL, you
know you're definitely gonna take that opportunity. And it's great to see the XFL
promote that. That's the other thing I'll bring up here, you know,
as we close this out, I think is just you know, the league.
I mean, I think we said during the season they might have pushed
the narrative a bit too much. You know, it's like, oh,
well, this guy, you know, it was all about the NFL and
not about you know, his actual production on his XFL team, And to
an extent, I agree with that, but it's also good, you know,
to not see the league just completely shy away. Again, I think
some of their partnerships help, like with the NFL Alumni Academy. You know,
they have a strong connection there personnel wise. So yeah, ultimately,
you know, I think it's good that the league is and again, you
know they're posting. You know, when guys sign in the NFL, could
they do maybe a better job, you know, with that being more consistent,
you know, perhaps you could argue that way. But again, like
every time a player gets signed, you know, like they have been,
you know, posting like on xflp or they'll make the graphic, they'll put
it up on the XFL socials. You know, yeah, like this guy.
You know, it's like XFL and NFL, And I think the greatest
thing that they've done really so far with that is, um, you know,
they're doing YouTube stuff with that. They're making you know, these little
short documentaries, like they had a couple of the DPPs talking like Von Hutchins,
you know, Randy Mueller, Mark lily Bridge, you know, going
on about you know, some of their players that really impressed them. You
know. It's kind of like a players spotlight, and that helps NFL teams
too, you know, just to get an idea of what they're looking at.
So I think, yeah, again, all around it, it's a
great structure there. Yeah, I think just to wrap this up, I
think, you know, like you said, pushed a little too hard the
narrative. I think if the XFL and the USFL could change it a little
bit where you know, for however many decades now it's kind of like it's
the NFL or bust and you're if you're don't make it to the NFL,
you'r sol and your life is over. Like changing the narrative. Like no,
like we are creating these other places, like these landing spots for you,
whether you do want to play there for years, you want to play
here for a year, you want to play here for a few weeks,
kind of get back, just to not have it be this all er bust
kind of thing. I think is important to kind of build that narrative around
and you know we're working on and I think both these leagues are still trying
to figure out how they want to frame that. Evan and tremendous work here,
you know, under your knowledge of all of these players stands. I
know I talked with like Dorothy afterwards, like how do they know all these
people? I said, you know, this is what Evan does. I
appreciate Max putting the list together as well. Some notes on there, Evan,
anything else for me before we get out of here. Yeah, I'll
just go off your point quickly again about you know, sort of these guys,
you know, building resumes through these leagues. You know, the one
thing that I thought was really cool was, you know, especially from the
spring football standpoint, you know, there were guys who won the championship with
the Arlington Rennagads this year that we're on the Birmingham Stallions in the USFL last
year. You know, Doug Coasting, Victor Bolden, there was a couple
other guys. But anyway, you know, you know, guys aren't able
to win championships in these leagues. Now, you know that wasn't a thing
a couple of years ago, Like the last time you had that was you
know really the UFL. I mean, yeah, the spring League had theirs,
but you know where does the spring league fall again? You can argue
with that, but like the AF never completed their season, you know,
L twenty their season. So now you finally see guys. I think they're
able to be more emotionally attached. That's what I really hope for, you
know, these players as the leagues move forward, it's like they can really
get attached to these teams. And it's not just about you know, waiting
on that call from the NFL. You know, I'm just here in the
meantime. It's like, well, you know, you might end up playing
here for like two three years, so you know, really trying, you
know, commit to the team. And I'm not saying guys aren't committed.
I'm just saying I think it depends a lot on and I've talked about this
with other people. It depends for the player, you know, whether they've
been in the NFL or not before, Because some guys have had a ton
of NFL experience. Look at like more Tavis Bryant, that Josh Gordons of
the world, and then I don't know, you look at maybe like a
Bryson, a lean who's never really touched the NFL. So there's a couple
of different perspectives there, but the bottom line is, you know, the
more emotionally attached guys get, the better the football will be. At least
that's what I think personally. Yeah, I think you can just feel like
your heart is a little bit more protected to be invested in this now,
just with the success the USFL has had and now with the XFL completely like,
you know, you're not wasting your time here, I'm not. I
can be invested. I can be a part of this. I could Like
we've talked with Ag McCarron and the Luis prez or too, I'll be like,
I feel like I could build something here for a couple of years and
kind of know what's going to be around. Evan with news up. Appreciate
it all season. I'm sure we'll do lots more of this throughout the summer,
but really appreciate your time to that. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for
having me on read This was definitely fun to talk about some players. As
always it always is. Well, we're gonna have good Beard energy on the
podcast today. I feel like we have Furbie here normally we have Justin Freeman
overt run the SIMS. Today Justin said Furby is the guy we're talking to.
We're getting us about week eight and everything else. How are you doing,
sir, good? How are you doing? Read? I'm good?
So what are you know? We're here approaching week eight? Pat Raffino and
I've been kind of doing our you know, Monday recaps through the last a
little bit. What are you making of USFL season two? It's good.
It's a lot like season one. I thought they might like kind of spice
it up a little bit, you know. Year one, you know,
they you kind of give them a free pass on some stuff. But then
a year two you think you might make some changes, and so far it's
kind of felt exactly the same. Starting to feel a little formulaic, you
know, I for some reason in the Psycho and leave all the notifications on
on Twitter for all the teams to get the notifications and stuff. But so
I start to see, you know, it's like the same tweet over and
over for all the teams. You kind of wonder if that's a little bit
of Fox, you know, if you ever watch like a Fox sitcom,
you know, season eleven it kind of becomes very formulaic, and maybe that's
kind of what they want. You know, they want this you know,
four TV product, you know, so they're not really necessarily trying to switch
it up. Did you watch or enjoy the XVl this year. I did,
and I think it kind of had you know, it was in its
first year two, so you know, it kind of had the new car
smell. All. So now USFL, you know, I don't think it's
stale necessarily, but you know, it's it's in its second year, so
I think the football is good. Though I'm a known supposed USFL hater on
here, and so it's either gays got to walk in line with that.
No. But you know I've said I don't always agree with the XFL's personality,
right. I think sometimes they try to be a little bit too serious.
You know that the broadcast people have issues with the ESPN broadcast, But
at least it feels like it has a little bit of an identity where it
does feel like this is, like you said, not I wouldn't say stayable,
like this is stafe, Like we have four games that are very family
friendly and you can watch and you kind of know what to expect and uh,
it's kind of like pizza and it's always going to be fine, but
it might not be exceptional or poor. Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think XFL maybe they're trying to build a little more and I think
USFL probably kind of content, you know, having it like this, This
is a TV spot for Saturday Sunday. As long as their ratings are good,
They're not going to leave money on the table, you know, but
they're not maybe not quite as willing to take some of their risks, you
know, moving cities out of the hub into their hometowns, stuff like that.
So we had the USFL had the press conference this morning. This will
air obviously Friday, but kind of previewing the playoffs and you know, okay,
we've got this going on to Canton and everything else. Are really championing
the parody of all eight teams. So it's also kind of up in the
air going in, what have you made at the level of competition with the
parody of the all eight teams. I'm fine with a parody. I just
think everyone some of the teams just kind of lack identity. And the XFL
you kind of had the Defenders run first, or defense was really good.
You had the roughnecks. You know, they're just gonna sling it. Seattle
is just going to sling it around the field. I don't mind everyone having
the same wins and losses, kind of close in the standings, but I
just don't know if they have the identity that they did last year, even
you feel like when you think they had more of an identity in season one,
I think so. And you don't want teams like Pittsburgh last year where
they're just terrible and a little bit like Orlando in the XFL, or that's
not even competitive. You certainly always want competitive. But I just look,
you know, you look at you know, rushing yards per game, and
there's a few outliers, but almost everybody's within, you know, forty fifty
yards of each other after seven weeks. In terms of teams, you know
carried over obviously, either like stars kind of feel like they're finding their footing
now. You know, Birmingham's looked good, where we had kind of New
Orleans was the standout. Now they're kind of falter. And I blame I
had McLoud on the show a couple of weeks ago, so I blame the
kind of undefeated ray and ending on that. But what teams have you been
impressed by thus far coming in to the season. Uh, I think I
was really high on the Breakers to start, Like you said, they've they've
kind of tapered off a little bit. Uh, the Panthers have shown spurts,
and the Gamblers I guess have shown spurts of being a pretty good team.
But uh, like you said, the parody kind of makes everybody kind
of a muddle. You know. Well, I think the Stallions uh,
you know, are the cream cream of the crop in the South there though,
so feeling like they're they're kind of finally they had a little bit going
early on, but now, yeah, Mgoo's looking good everything else. I
mean, what's what's sit it out to you about the Stallions? Uh?
Really just McGoo. I mean he's clearly the MVP so far, you know,
and he hasn't really separated uh through the air, but just standing back,
he just he's calm, He's making plays, he'll scramble, he's not
looking to run first, but he just converts third downs, you know,
runs when they need him, you know, makes it look easy right now.
In terms of the breakers that McCleod. Have you been impressed. Did
you track any of his cflness before he came into the league. I didn't
track him in the CFL, and lots of times, you know, those
stats are hard to translate. You know, you always think, oh,
he's coming from the CFL, he's going to do really good. You know,
it's kind of doesn't always translate like people expect it to be. Like
Triple A baseball. You go to MLB, you're gonna like have a certain
ratio, and it's not always like that. With CFL. Some guy just
kind of it translates better, and sometimes it doesn't. So I wasn't sure
how all that was going to work out. And at first it looked pretty
good, and they've kind of, I don't know what it is, you
know, they just hit a wall a little bit. It seems like the
stats are still there for the most part, but they're just kind of not
making some of the third down, fourth downs. Makes it look a little
bit worse than it is. It seems, you know, we've kind of
pontificated. Maybe it's he's hitting the wall kind of coming off of the CFL
and fatigue and plane and I mean that's something with these spring leagues. And
obviously he had the time off from November, but you know, he was
inured in the Gray Cup, takes time off, you know, gets his
hand figured out, comes back in here, and it does seem like it's
not really the same energy that was going in the first you know, four
or five weeks. Yeah. And I mean that team in general has been
pretty banged up and getting late, and guys that aren't hurt, like Hills
has just been having a massive workload. You gotta think there's gonna be some
feet tigue there as well. And you know Dixon was hurt, and you
know, he's a big part of the offense. You know, I think
they're starting to come back around. Uh, you know, they were pretty
close. Every game has been close, you know, you know, a
couple of you know, a touchdown, Yeah, a couple of plays each
game. And we're not really having this conversation with coach c Filippo. Have
you, you know, as the first year kind of spring football coach here
figuring all this out, have you been impressed with his work? I have.
I think I prefer seeing the first year guys rather than you know,
some of the old you know, NFL veterans, guys that are on their
way up rather than kind of on their way out. You know, sometimes
they're I think they're just kind of looking the old guys or more looking for,
you know, just a nine to five job. They're probably not grinding
film U twelve thirty in the morning on a Tuesday night. I think you
see that with maybe last year with a couple of the coaches, but Larry
Fedora maybe a little bit there. Yeah, it turns it Todd Hailey here,
uh twerquing in the locker room now the team undefeated or are we liking
with coach Hailey has been putting together with the show butts, I mean it's
working apparently, But I kind of had Haley pegged. It's one of those
coaches maybe last year. But I think you're seeing a little bit more that,
you know, he's not just you know, sitting on the ball,
you know, he I think he does want to win. And they've made
I think seven of eight fourth downs in the last four games. I mean,
things that aren't sustainable. But it's certainly been fun, you know,
seeing that turnaround. A lot of a lot of positive vibes. Obviously a
lot of parody here in the South, especially, do you I mean,
you know, gamblers kind of trying to find their footing with you Bahar and
everything else. What do you make of you know, Stallion's figure number one,
who's going to get that second seed in the South? Yeah, it
certainly Stallions up top. I think the Breakers will figure it out, you
know. I kind of think the show Boats will be a little closer to
the first two games than the last first three games rather than the last four.
But it'll be somewhere in the middle. But and I same with the
gamblers. I see Stallion's been on top and then the Breakers. In terms
of here Stars, you're kind of finally figuring out what they want to do.
Panthers still can't win at home, and they've even talked about that today
on the USFL press conference. I thought that was funny. They were a
little self aware of that. But you know, General's really kind of out
of it. We had DeAndre Johnson get banged up, and the maller is
here continuing the mall is it Stars Panthers without a doubt here or what do
you make of the North? I think definitely Stars, and then I think
Panthers, But I don't know if Love has more up games than down games.
They also just signed j Perry, so that could be interesting. Yeah,
do you like Love? Do you like Love as a quarterback? I
don't think. I think he's looked all right, I think, but I
wouldn't mind seeing a change there. I was surprised they didn't give Barrier a
little more look, but they obviously had no interest and seeing I thought Barrier
looked pretty good last year, you know, kind of gave them to two
dimensions, but they weren't interested there. So you know, he's on the
Generals now, so without DeAndre, maybe he'll get a shot there. Yeah,
honestly, you know, it really seems like they're kind of grasping at
Strazer. Generals obviously had to make a move with that. But I don't
know if it's too little too late here to kind of refresh there, you
know, Is that enough time to get him in and get going here before
the end of the season. I don't know. I guess At worked with
Perez and Arlington, but I don't know that Barrier is Perez kind of a
very different player. And they haven't put Deander Johnson on the an active list
yet. Now he was d NP yesterday with concussion and it it would be
really bad optics. You know, after the scene, you know, looked
really bad, went to the hospital, you know, kind of had like
kind of two of vibes where it would look really bad if he played,
you know, put the league kind of risk a little bit. But I
would expect him to be back within a couple of weeks. So so I
would imagine they stick with him going forward because we letta just have not looked
very good. I'd be curious to kind of how they handle him in terms
of, you know, with the active bonuses and things, you know,
like I don't know if that goes into that. I think they had that
last year with when Brian Scott got injured and they kind of kept him on.
I don't know. I think they do a little bit of tweaking like
that to make sure guys are getting paid a little bit more. I don't
know if that goes into it at all, if they just want to keep
him on and not worry about transferring that out. But something to kind of
keep in mind there with the generals in terms of the matchups here we have
going into the weekend Week eight, you know, this might not be the
prettiest matchup here than nine them Pacific USA. Of the Gamblers Muellers. Who
do you have in this one? Gamblers are favored by three, and I
think that seems about right at that line. I'd probably go with the Gamblers.
But both teams are one and two in pressures and sacks, and the
Mallers have taken the second most sacks in the league, so it might be
pretty ugly in terms of offense. It's weird. It's weird that. Yeah,
the legacy of the Mallers has kind of continued on here. Yeah,
right, horrid and everything else. I'd be able to turn that around that
Stars Stallions, this might be the standout game of the weekend here on the
NBC. I think this is going to do pretty well radiance wise that noon
Pacific here with the Stars at Birmingham. What are you making of this one?
Yeah, this could very well be championship preview. Stars are favored by
a touchdown almost, But so Stallions are over the Stars, and I think
the story is the Stars offensive line. They were just atrocious through five games,
and then the last two games they allowed zero sacks to the Mallers and
then one sack to the Breakers looking a lot better. They could not get
the ball going at all in the ground. And then last two weeks,
you know, they've kind of gotten Colburn. You know, it's kind of
the lead dog now. Dexter Willness was mixing in some but it looks kind
of like all Colburn now and they're doing a lot better the last a couple
of weeks. Well, Corpan's been great. I mean he's been good.
We tracked him all the way through everything going up, big, good,
good pieces there. It feels like they're finally getting right here. Slow starred
and I don't know if Case was slow coming back or a Bart was kind
of snoozy on the sidelines. It feels like they're finally kind of getting their
footing here. Yeah, definitely. In terms of here, the June fourth
Sunday Double Fox, I think the ratiings will obviously peak up over last week.
We've had probably a season low here for the USBL ratings coming out of
week seven. But the Showboats at the Generals here, I have to imagine
the showboats are favorite. Yeah, well, the show Boats are two point
dogs now. For some reason, it opened as the Showboats his favorites,
and now it's flipped that the Generals are two point favorites. And I couldn't
figured that one out either. I don't know if it was a DeAndre Johnson
thing or so. I would certainly be on the Showboats side of that.
I would bet that immediately. I mean, you have your your sad quarterback
injured here, and yeah, I mean I guess the trade them all that.
But I certainly don't think that they bring that up here that quick.
I don't think that seems odd to me. It is the home field advantage
of Tom Benson that great. No, But yeah, they're Generals are two
point favorites right now, and then here Michigan Michigan at New Orleans. It's
probably the other standout game. I think the Fox it has lacked a little
bit in the ratings compared to NBC, But I imagine this afternoon game is
going to go, well, Panthers are breakers, Panthers are not in you
know, Detroit, and they can certainly win here. What do you make
of this one? It's time for the Breakers to and the Mark cast curse.
I guess it's been the West Hillis show so far. You know,
from a team you think just gonna pass it all the time. They've been
running quite a bit, you know, they've had some success, but still
come up short and a wind column. And like we mentioned earlier, I
think Hillis just has to be getting tired, so they give him a little
bit of rest. I don't know. I think he fumbled it for once
there and they went to Jones for a little bit. But I think they're
just going to go back to him. I mean, his workload has just
been outrageous. Looking here moving into the playoffs here, you know, a
couple of weeks left to the regular season playoffs. What are you looking for
from any of these scenes before we get out of here? Who would you
like to see? You think that you think Birmingham and Philadelphia at the end.
I think that's who's going to be. They're certainly the most fun teams,
the best offenses, Birmingham defense. I think their reputation has been a
lot stronger than their actual performance on defense this year. But I think if
they can do that, they're certainly the favorite. Well, Ferbie, I
appreciate it if people want to learn more about you, kind of what you
guys do over at run the sims where would you have them. Check out
run the sims dot com. You can check out me at Ferbie Hoobler on
Twitter, and we have stuff for USFL XFL. We'll have some NFL preseason
We mostly dfs betting prop tools. It's a lot of fun. Has the
USFL interest exceeded or disappointed your expectations this season? Disappointed? I think,
especially on DraftKings. Is XFL started out, you know about where USFL did
last season, you know, and then I think people what we're just exhausted.
You know, XFL started with one hundred thousand dollars to first place,
and now we're down to two thousand dollars to first place. So I think
the interest has dwindled quite a bit, and DraftKings just kind of has kind
of given up on the USFL product, you know, price wise, and
the players player pools, Like a couple of weeks ago, they haven't figured
out the difference between the inactive list and you know, like guys that were
inactive one week, they just don't even add them to the player pool.
So I think they've mostly given up on the product. But it's been fun,
though. Do you attribute that to a problem with the USFL product or
just a general fatigue in spring football that we've done this now for twenty weeks.
It's both, you know, and it's kind of self. It just
kind of keeps building. You know, they cut the prize pool so people
are interested, and then I don't expect DraftKings to keep taking a huge you
know, cut themselves, so you know, you make the prize pool smaller,
and then less people want to play, so they have to make the
next week the prize pool even smaller and keeps getting smaller and smaller. But
I'd say, yeah, and the interests in spring football or in the USFL
has been a little bit less than XFL, so it's just been it's been
a grind. And then let NFL. You're starting to get to mini camps
and stuff, and people are starting to do bestball drafts, so there's other
places to play, you know, other games to play. It's interesting.
I just I use you know, all these metrics and ratings and attendance and
YouTube kind of traffic I see, And obviously this is another one about so
I always appreciate those insights as well. Well. For me, thank you
so much, and I hope you enjoy Yeah, you gotta. I hope
you enjoy the rest of the season. You see him a little down,
but we got to grind through. Did I do enjoy it? I didn't
want to come across the It's good. It's a lot fun. It's this
lot we've been doing. Yeah, it's been twenty yet since ye now we're
working there. Well, foreby I appreciate it. Somo, all right,
thanks a lot. Well, last time we spoke, I was in I
think I was in the Flamingo over in Vegas. Now I'm relegated to my
living room. We have the lawnmower outside. Here we are JJ Adams here
with the post media. How are you doing, sir? I'm good.
I do remember you throwing that in my face that you were in Vegas having
like the time of your life when I was I was stuck in I remember
this. I got the memory like an element. I will never forget that,
nor will I forgive. But it's good to see you again, o.
J is good to talk. Yeah, well, much stable, much
more stable connection here back at marcass headquarters and over at the Flamingo. I
think I was on the hot spot that day. So anyway, here we're
doing team breakdowns. We had Ryan Valentine on last week talking Calgary. Obviously
we have to talk America's CFL team to bas alliance here, JJ is the
person I want to talk to you. How are you feeling that we've had
the one preseason game. I mean, I know, wins and losses and
all of that, but what do you make in the team so far?
You know, I'm encouraged. I think they brought a lot of the veteran
flavor that they had from last year. The guys that were like, you
know, second year players in our third year, they're they're answering that kind
of impact, kind of zone of their career. So I think, you
know, they've got a lot of returners. They picked up some good free
agents. Um, they didn't lose too many pieces, and if they did,
they might have found some replacements. You know, James Butler came into
his own last year for the Lions and they had to sort of start from
scratch here, so we'll see what they have in running back. They lost
fig figure out to Hamilton as well, so big veteran piece on the line.
Of course. They picked up Michael Mature at center, so you know,
they got some more experience there. I think This is going to be
a team that's going to be challenging for for top in the West again.
And that is, you know, even without mister Nathan Rourke. Um,
I think, uh, big play Va is a capable core back and now
that he's had like a training camp under his belt, he's got some time
a little runway. The team is unquestionably his to start the season, unquestionably
his. I think he'll feel very confident and that can only help him,
you know, uh, sort of get into routine and rhythm and really be
big play of the A and live up to that nickname he said to start
the season. Are you foreshadowing that Dan Evans takeover here? Do you mean
just off the last season with you know, because I want to talk Dan
too, But yeah, it's I Vernon was on the show postseason, and
I think people really underestimate the emotional toll that is, Like he was talking
to you, Yeah, moving across the country. I've got I'm paying rent
here, I'm paying rent here, I've got my house here. You know,
he lives down in Tacoma. I got basically a stones throw from me.
Like there was a lot going into that besides even just football. Yeah,
no, it was. I mean it was a tough move, like
he was. You know, he he fell out of out of favor in
Montreal, and you know the promises that were kept or not kept. He
just found himself, you know, stuck and um. You know, when
someone sort of questions your your capabilities and what you can do, and of
course it's gonna impact your confidence. And then you know, came over in
mid season to a team that had, you know, one of the best
quarterbacks this league has seen ever. You know, I'll say it was one
season, you know, one and a half seasons, but I'll say it
he was. He was remarkable. So that's a tough situation to come into
knowing that if that guy comes back, you're gonna be relegated to the bench
again. Now, you know he is uh, you know, he's got
that that offseason under his belt. You know, I'm sure you heard about
the Lion King's camp down into Como where he flew and all the guys.
He loves to do that, lots of bonding. He's sort of ingrained in
the culture of the team there. He's a leader on the team now.
So I don't think we'll see that Vermin Adams that we saw last year that
was you know, very intitive and conservative. You know, you would see
him hold on to the ball just way too long and you'd be yelling at
the at the screen throw the ball or yelling from the and you know he
gets sacked or run around or something like that. I don't think we're gonna
see that that via this year. I think he is going to sort of
throw back to his more successful days and he's got so many weapons at his
disposal. I mean, it would be nearly impossible for him to like fall
on his face with that kind of with those kind of options out there.
So I foresee a very good season for him. And if not, they
have Dan Evans your guy, well day, I don't want Vernon to do
anymore. I think he did like the backflip somersaults or whatever when he was
like running out of bounds and I think it was against Calgary and he did
like a I would go okay Vernon, like yeah, I thought he was
gonna like get seriously injured here, like just yeah, it was. It
was crazy. I like the lion King's thing and the arrow up and I've
talked with Nick and Mad about it. It's fascinated to me that track that
just to watch the little personality nuances between all of those guys and like,
I don't you know, I love Vernon. I think people have Vernon.
Vernon's a lot, right, A lot comes with Vernon both you know,
on the field and then off and just the personality. I like watching all
that. They did a similar thing with the USFL and we saw Brian Scott
the quarterback there and you know you kind of saw he was having to have
like a house meeting kind of trying to talk to some of the wide receivers
and you know, I kind of I don't know, we'll see. I
like it. They're complicated. You've got you know, Lucky Whitehead and guys
that have been in the NFL and coming back. It's curious as he kind
of how they all interact. Yeah. No, I mean that Vernon is
a is a leader. He's like he really is a leader. I mean
you saw that in the in the work that they did with the Lion Kings
when they were sitting down and he was interacting with everyone. And he has
a track record of doing that. I mean, he did that in Montreal,
you know, offseason flew in guys put him in a hotel practice with
him, So he's that's kind of a role that he's he's really comfortable with
and I think he involved into that that leader again now that he is the
number one, as long as he doesn't, like you say, get fold
in half, you know, trying to do something crazy scrambling out of the
backfield. The Dan Evans thing I remember when he got signed and kind of
took me by surprise and just thought there would be maybe a hotter market for
Dane and him coming in seems happy. He's in all the documentary stuff too,
and obviously he played What do you make of that? Is it just
hey, he didn't have anywhere else to go a you know, let's it
doesn't hurt to have another person there. Do you think he's really going to
compete? No, I think absolutely he's going to compete. I think you
know, Vernon is the number one guy, but you know, iron sharpens
iron, so having those guys together is only going to make him better.
And you know, the Lions saw what happens if you have a number one
quarterback and he gets hurt and there's really nothing behind it. He saw what
happened when they tried to you know, rotining the guys that they had last
year. So now they have a guy who is a capable starter in this
league and he'll be pushing for number one. I think, you know,
heading into the season, this is definitely going to be Vernon's Vernon's term.
But you know, having Dane there, I don't think it's a bad thing.
I think it's a great room. Everyone on the on the team,
you know, talks about this culture that they have there where guy, it's
like a family atmosphere. You know, they're all brothers and they're all trying
to lift each other up. So I don't think there's any of that sort
of competition. He doesn't find himself like in that situation. He wasn't in
Montreal where he felt sidelined and kind of left out. Everyone's included, So
I think it's it can only be a good thing for the Lions to have
Dane on the team. And I am, I like you, a little
surprised there wasn't a hotter market from out there. But you know, we'll
see what those other teams do and uh in this season with the guys they
brought in, I am very excited to see Cuy for jar there with Montreal.
I am very excited to see what that looks like. And I know
that's a conversation for different team breakdown, but the culley for Jarr who now
was a friend of the podcast, Cody, we were on not on speaking
terms for a little while, but Cody's back in the family here and I'm
excited. I like Montreal. They're my team of the East, and we've
we've had Gary on the podcast, so I like Montreal and I hope Cody
finds successory speaking French and doing everything else. What did you do the code
to you to make him an enemy? I need to know. I tweet.
I retweeted a Three Down Nation article, the one where he was talking
he used chicken nuggets as opposed to curse words, and I think Cody went
on the spree and just stamp found anyone that was associated with that article and
just went on the block. And so I apologized. I said, I
accept you know all of that, and yeah, Cody gave on the show.
It was great, it was a good time. It's funny Vernon has
had a boat to pick with the Three Down Nation two. You know,
we came to BC and anytime in the post game, you know, the
three Down nation writers would ask a question. Answer was always the same,
gotta look at the film. Didn't matter the question could ask anything. You
know, what kind of chicken soup do you like? Gotta watch the film.
I don't know, I just got it was hilarious to see I was
JC Abbott from three Down. They watched him sweat trying to ask all these
detailed questions and burn and just be like I watched film. Then he's awesome.
I love Yeah, JCS still now. John Hodge was on the show
last week, so I'm slowly working my way up. I think JC is
like the ultimate boss battle there. So we're working our way up through the
three down ranks, but trying to be friends. In terms of big losses,
he a butler all of that. I'm very scared because I didn't think
BC they have not run the ball well. I felt like in the last
couple of years. Obviously he had a stand that year, but I am
scared of that loss and kind of what they're going to do there. Yeah,
I mean JB was it was. It was a big loss, like
he really came into his own last year. But if I remember the year
before he wasn't he wasn't that great. And I think last year was the
first year against like the Andrew Harris stays that they had like a thousand yard
rusher and so you know, historically they haven't run the ball well. Um,
the guys that they got, they had five guys to start camp.
They whittled it down to four right away. I think it was Von Watson
can come up because he had a baby, and then whittled that down to
three and then they released a Buddy Howell U not too long ago. So
it's and Tony Williams and Smoke Mozelle. Um. I think Williams has got
the the ability to be a very good back in this league. He's I
think he's got the intra insight track to be a starter because he's the biggest
of the bunch. He's you know, he's close to six foot, he's
two hundred pounds. And blocking is such a huge thing in this league because
you pass so much that they need a guy who can provide that protection for
their quarterback. And also he's like a very powerful running like he can he
can lower his pads and like get through some arm tackles and gain those extra
yards. Um. So you know, combine that with you know, athleticism.
He's fast. Uh. You know, we saw a little bit in
the in the preseason game what he in Smoke would do. Um. But
definitely, you know, he's a guy that can really do anything you ask.
Um. Smoke is more of that sort of hybrid kind of guy.
He's a very good receiver, he's a good runner, he can return kicks.
He's not huge. I think he was the smallest of the five guys
that they brought in, but I mean he is shifty, he's fast.
Uh. You know, he'll provide a very good change of pays to to
to Williams. So I think they're gonna be set. And you know,
we talk about replacing James Butler, but you know two years ago, they
didn't. They didn't have James Butler. They had to develop him. So
I think we're gonna see the same thing with these guys. And I hopefully,
you know, we don't know, we don't know until the the you
know, the the rubber hits the road what they're gonna do. But I
think they're gonna be you know, pretty much set at running back this season
in terms of the Lions, you know, kind of carrying on from last
year, and I know they're going to announce the band here for the you
know, the day I think halftime of the preseason game, they're going to
announce for the you know, the kickoff and all of that. But in
terms of I know, you know, Mark Doman was really into all the
FSCU stuff and we've had jaman on talking about that and kind of building the
grassroots and all of that in the community. Do you feel like the Lions
are going to be able to carry over the momentum they have last year with
Rourke? It just in terms of like popularity in the community. I think
that it Rourke's magnificent season. Really, the spark was already there there.
The excitement was there with having new ownership. That was involved having new ownership
that was you know at the grassrooms level, handing out scarves and schwag at
flag football games, you know, sponsoring the flag football leagues. You know,
the Lions hadn't had that for a while. So that kind of started
the Ember a little bit, breathed some life back into the team, and
then Nathan Rourke was just like Yasoline and just boomed. You know, there
was just this massive interest in the team, and uh yeah, I don't
I don't know who their their halftime or show will be for the home opener,
but you know, they keep teasing it and I think it'll be hopefully
it won't be a Chilliwac again. You know, I think they're they're demographic.
They did get their demographic a little lower. Uh, not that there's
anything wrong with classic rock, but you know, let's let's make a little
lower. Um. I think they're really making an effort to scratch and claw
their way back into like the the number two spot in Vancouver sports. Like
no one's gonna be touching the Canucks because the Canucks are the Canucks. But
you know, the white Caps are in a very popular league, especially in
the States. I think it's like the number three league down there now.
Um So interest is rising in that Lions have been lucky and that the white
Caps have been terrible for a decade, no success. So if they can
get some some wins on the board and like last year, challenge for a
you know, a great cup, making to the playoffs, make some noise.
Um, you know that that's gonna even give them a bigger ramp into
into season four with with the mar seasons three. So I think absolutely last
year huge fire. There's the interest is still there. Even though Nathan has
gone to the NFL now, I think there's still a lot of interest in
this team and with what they're doing just to make an experience for everybody.
So yeah, absolutely, I think it'll be even better than last year.
Well because I think they I mean, you know, Nathan phenomenal talent.
Nathan wasn't exactly the most electric personality, right, you know, and he
was on you know, he was on the show pre kind of that season
and all of that. But you know, I think with Vernon and Keion
and Lucky and I mean even Dane to some extent, I think, you
know, Dane's had stories in the past talking about his upbringing and kind of
his heritage and everything. Like, I think you have a really marketable team
there. If they can perform even modicamly well whatever on the field, I
think you have a lot of stars there that you can build around, because
like Lucky Whitehead is like I don't I've been to yet, Like I don't
care, Like I'll do whatever i want and like I'm doing sidelines you know,
it gives in that agger where like he's still all in, but you
can tell he's a little bit above kind of what's going on. Yeah.
Absolutely, you just have to look at his Uh everyone's wondering what how is
he going to get to the game? How is he going to enter the
game? Is it gonna be on horse bat? Is it gonna be on
ice cream card? Is it gonna be on a unic cycle? You know,
it's just that fun kind of modern social media content. Um. And
with a great personality like Lucky, it's just you know, it's easy to
to to sort of sell that to people. And like you said, there's
lots of great personalities and stories on the team, very marketable. Um.
So you know, I won't say that Baker and Nick have a have an
easy job, but it's a lot easier to sell people when you know they're
very outwardly, uh, you know, energetic and enthusiastic. And I'm not
saying Nathan wasn't. I love I love talking to Nate. You know,
when the cameras are off, he's a different guy, but you know it's
a right on camera. He was very straightforward, straight forward. Would you
would you rather sell you know Vernon or Lucky or would rather sell Trevor Harris
here and Regina. I mean I think I think, like you know,
and there's certain certain social media teams have I think that is the tougher sell
here, which Trevor Harris coming in, Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I mean,
I mean, the Lions have no uh no shortage of guys that they
can sell, and I really fearful those guys trying to big up Trevor Harris
last I think for me, do we do we so you know, we
did the uniforms right, we have that we're doing the you know, the
bone and blackout or whatever and all that. I told Matt Baker, I
want to work the mark has to get to the point where I get those
jerseys sent to me like Don and Dolly did or whatever. You know.
I wonder how like how do we how do I get on that? I
want to get on that that level here? You know, we've had the
owner of the team on our show for about thirty five minutes, but that
we'll get there. Um. But then like the Argos do it now and
like I think Montreal they said they're doing the new uniform next year. I
said, are we a fan of this is? Are we just trying?
It's just like false sparky and it's just like a false fire. What do
you make of this? Well, I would actually like to take personal credit
for the Minds changing their uniforms this year. You know, I've been lobbying
a Mars since he came to like bring back the gun metal gray, you
know, because those those those are dope. Those are my favorite Lions jerseys
of all time. Even though you you couldn't read the numbers or the letters
on the back, just I love the color scheme, and so I think
you kind of took that under advisement tap myself on the back, uh,
and came out with these these jerseys. I think the blackout one is is
nice. You know, you can't go wrong with black and orange. It's
pretty classy. Um the fog gray or the bones fog yeah five, it's
it's it's it's pretty nice jersey. I will give them that. I think
that you have to kind of change things up, you know, if you're
gonna be you want to sort of differentiate yourself and continue to evolved, because
I don't think to see if I can aboard afford to stayte stagnant. You
need to freshen it up. And so, you know, yeah, I
like the Toronto uniforms, you know, baby blue. I'm a unc guy,
so I love that color scheme. I'd love to see what they come
out. You said Montreal is coming up with the next year. They said,
yeah, I'd love to see I think I think it's great. Um,
yeah, I mean, I'd love to see Winnipeg do something different.
I think they have the classiest color scheme, but they all like look the
same to me, like they've changed it, but they all kind of look
the same. So I'd like to see something from from out of Winnipeg.
You know, they're they're they're the franchise, right, the model franchise.
Do something different, do something you know bold, you know the bigs w
on that right though, come on, do something. So I don't know
if you want to market the bombers in this political kind of climate, I
don't know if that's the best. It's kind of like the Washington Bullets.
That wasn't the best name to change that BA in the day. So yeah,
last thing for me, you know, how do you feel just you
know, the CFL existing here going into this year, welfare check on the
league and the health and everything else. Um, I think it's it's stronger
than than it was coming out of the pandemic. But it's not hard.
It's not hard. I think there's a crop of new owners. Um,
there's a new life in the league. They're really trying to push to do
things differently than they did before. So I think they're really trying to evolve.
Um, it'll be interesting to see how they continue to coexist with XFL.
You know, as much as they never want to admitted, it's had
a huge huge impact on on the CFL on the player front. So you
know, if they can find a way to to to coexist and not compete,
I think that would only help the league. But you know, as
as a as an individual entity, I think it's uh, you know,
I think it's the stronger place has been in at least last decade, last
decade. So I think they're they're doing the right things now. Unless see
if they can attract some new some new blood in the league, you know,
need to replace some of those fans who maybe you're in't watching as much
to be as they used to. Let's just say that. So yeah,
No, I think I think it's a good place. I think it was
a direct quote from John Hades like CFL staff wants the XFL and USFL to
die. I think that was basically like a direct quote on the podcast about
so but you know, I mean it is it's competition for players, and
you know, I think long term, if if in the XML and or
USFL survive and it increases Canadian talent up in the CFL because they have to
look inward. I mean, I think that that's great. It helps everybody.
I mean then everyone, you know, it's it's more jobs and more
roles for everybody. So I think it should be good at j J anything
else. And I appreciate it here and maybe we'll get you on here sometime
during the season, hopefully. I think they predicted nine or ten wins they
had, like the ratings come out this week, like they some wager thing
talked about like all the team wins or how many wins people are going to
get that BC Lions were like a ten win team. I think, oh
hmm, I would I would have given them a little more than that,
but hey, I'm not I'm not the guy setting all those those money bets.
So interesting but anytime you want to talk. BC Lions happy to come
on anytime. My friend s thank you so much, no problem, Well,
I appreciate it. We have I guess joining live correspondent here from our
training camp. We have my Cogan here with the Argonauts. How are you
doing, sir? Doing great? Better now that I'm talking to you.
Well, I appreciate that. So now that you know the Argots have won,
like, do you get to go around like when you and Dave Campbell
and all your other guys see your secret meetups, do you get to like
flex a little bit harder with the Argonauts the Great up Champions. I love
the fact that I will so far, I have never this will continue right
now because I didn't bring up Breakup Champions. You did. So any time
I've been interviewed as us the country, I have never brought that up.
I've always let the other people do that, including in Hamilton where I did
three different shows last week, and I'm proud to say I didn't bring it
up. Less but that's exciting though. It's good we were there. Exciting
and obviously with the jack Kellys of it all, and you know McLeod and
now he's in the USNL. It seems like the argos are in the news
a lot, which is exciting because obviously we've talked in the past and others
about you know everything. It seems like kind of the arrow is pointing up
a little bit. Is that how you feel, Yeah, it is,
you know, every little bit helps. We got quite a bit of a
boost from the uniform release and the helmet release and the one fifty news conference
where we had CTV, CBC Global, TSN and we had all the major
dailies there, which is not a normal occurrence for an Argonaut news conference,
sadly in this market. So to see that kind of response, you know,
hopefully we're we're becoming the cool kids again. You'll see more people on
the stands at Demo Field here, which is great news. And this is
our one hundred and fiftieth anniversary season, so we've got a lot of bells
and whistles plans, some of which we revealed, some we have not.
Yeah, is that one of those things. It feels like planning you must
start a little bit further outright than looking forward to the season. It feels
it's cool, and I know Mike Mitchell cover covers the argos for cf on
News seven. He's a lifelong Argostan, but it does seem like it's a
really cool milestone for the CFL, for the argos for this, I mean
for everything, for the city and every all the you know, the owners
are everyone across the board from you know, for one hundred and fifty years
now. One of the things that we did, and we did mention at
the news conference, so we're not really speaking out of turn. And then
it's got a little bit of play so far on social media. A panel
of five of us went through Argonaut history one hundred and fifty years and came
up with the one hundred and fifty top moments in Argo history, which was
not easy. Luckily we had I don't know if you know James Fraser or
not. He runs the Twitter account by goon Boatman. He's a history professor
here at the University of Guelph whose passion is pre CFL Toronto Argonau football.
This list would be different without him. The author Paul Woods, the longtime
broadcaster and lifelong Argo fan, Don Landry and Danny Webb, the longest serving
Argo employee who started as the equipment manager in nineteen eighty five. The five
of us got together and it was about a three month exercise and I don't
know how many hundreds of hours of manpower were spent on this, but we
were actually very, very surprisingly happy with the list. I think we have
every decade representative except the eighteen nineties. There you go. I like that.
So a lot of pressure here coming into this season to perform. You
know, we've had the preseason game. I want to talk a little Brian
Scott and everything else, but how did you feel like the argos have looked
so far headed into the season. What's expected? I mean, the defense
is ahead of the offense, and usually that's the case in training camp,
and um, you know, Chad Kelly has looked really good or I think
everybody's a little relieved. I don't think it was a question at all,
but you know, there's always that thing in the back of your mind until
you see it. But but but Chad looks fantastic, so we're not worried.
There somebody I assume is going to step up and and take the reins
in that number two battle you mentioned Brian Scott. It's a three way race
and you know, one day one guy will look great. You know,
Cameron Dukes will look great the next day and Ben Holmes will look great the
next day, and then it seems everybody will take a little bit of a
regression and somebody else will step up the next day. So that's that's one
of the things I think in the final preseason game, that's that's going to
be something that the offensive side of the ball is going to be looked at
looking at, but you know, I think it's the defense looks fantastic.
Not everybody's been healthy in camp. You know, somebody gets a little nicked.
They really air on the side of caution, so one day doesn't become
one week. You don't give them the day off and you know, ready
to go. The entire the entire coaching staff is back, which you know,
with the championship team especially, is exceptionally rare. But you know,
we're lucky here in Toronto where everybody stayed put. Well, that's the thing
with the quarterbacks, and it's you know, obviously in all of these leagues
and the CFL, and you know even this year with the round table,
you know, Trevor's moving and Cody's moving and you know, burned in like
all that to have Chad Kelly here. You know, you have this monumental
you know McLeod, who's at least in the time that we've covered the CFL
one of the main stays, you know, at least with the Argos,
and I know our time is very short in the Argos history, but you
know, he goes and then it's like, oh my god, we have
just this up and coming star here ready to go. I mean, how
how fortunate it is that for the Argos And is that what do you attribute
that to to be able to know that, to be in such a good
spot right now. Yeah, it's great. He knows the offense. It's
not like there was a learning curve for him. His learning curve was last
year in terms of, you know, a similar a new game, the
new rules, the size of the field, the size of the ball,
all of that stuff. He's used to that now. He got number two
snaps last year, got to play in a game at the end of the
season, and we did a conversation and you can read our conversation about our
conversation at argonaut Dota. He says that the game he got in at the
end of the season probably meant more to his confidence than even the Great Cup
because it had been so long since he had actually played a full game.
He got in, played really well and that kind of got his mojo back.
And you know, who knows what happens in the Gray Cup if he
didn't get those reps in the in the final game, which meant nothing in
the standings, but to the guys who got in, especially the first timers
like Chad, it meant the world. So you know, he's in,
He's got the keys to the car. He's cool with that. He's been
a leader vocally and otherwise, and has looked really good in camp. So
you know, if there are any worries that anybody may have had in the
back of their minds, and I know he hasn't even play an exhibition game
yet, just a scrimmage, but I don't think anybody here is worried about
Chat at all. Well, let's I hear a lot in you. We've
had Naylor on the show in the past and talking about this learning curve quarterbacks
coming up from America. There here's Chat. It seems like is it just
his what do you attribute that to him being able to one pre you know,
one exhibition game at the end of the season is it make a great
quarterback? So what do you attribute that to him being able to step up
so well? Like all of the best quarterbacks, he's a film junkie.
Um, he wants to get better, you know. His long term goal,
like most American players, is to get back to the NFL. And
he's putting in the work. Uh, you know, he was up here
all offseason. He was in with didn't why a lot. He was working
out the receivers. You know, it's not too far from home, being
from Buffalo, but you know which an hour and a half an hour depending
on traffic down the quew So it's he's it's within driving distance to go and
see you know, his family and friends. But he's stayed up here and
really threw himself at the offense and even was looking back apparently at stuff that
Dinwoody had done in Calgary, Like he just really wanted in all kind of
the genesis of the offense. So he knows it inside and out and that
work ethic has shown. He talks about doing the right things this year,
being in bed on time, putting the right things into his body in terms
of nutrition and uh, you know, he's put in the work. You
know, if you want to talk to him, if you're a member of
media after practice, you don't have to wait a while because he's doing other
stuff, whether it be you know, gassers across the sideline or you know,
taking snaps with Peter mckn castro or throwing the receiver like he's always doing
something. So nothing he does this year is going to be by accident,
that's for sure, in terms of the backup quarterback position. And not to
be a you know, a biased journalist share on my end, you know,
we so Brian Scott has famously been on the show. Ben Holmes has
famously no show to our show. So if you want to know where you
know my else he's lie in terms of men getting the second But you know,
I saw Ben Grant tweeting writing a lot about Brian Scott. We were
all communicating in our we have like our XFL little media group. Did he
and I know that they It was said that it was like the worst game
that Ben's played, you know, in his time, and also Brian looked
really good. Bit but you know we're Ben was there last year. Brian's
coming. Has Brian impressed or what did you make of his performance. Yeah,
and again, you know, having that pro background's gonna help. You
know, there are the nuances that he has to pick up. And I
talked to him and he said one of the things, you know, I
asked him about the twenty second clock because I've talked to guys who have come
up, even playing in the NFL, and the twenty second clock will beat
them quicker than anything else because they're used to coming in, getting the play
in their helmet, kind of sauntering up to the line, looking over the
line of scrimmage, calling the audible checking down. By the time that happens,
plays done. But he said it really seems to help his rhythm.
He really liked it playing with it, not only in the scrimmage here,
but in the in the preseason game at Hamilton. So he's really seeming to
pick it up, you know. You know, Ben Holmes had a tough
day. The first guy to mention through two interceptions. It sounds like both
were on him. I'm the last guy that's going to blame a quarterback or
a receiver because I don't know the route, but just hearing kind of,
you know, anecdotally that it was on Ben. Ben took full responsibility for
it. I asked him what he's looking to do on Thursday night and he
said, how about not throwing two interceptions because he knows he had a rough
one, no question about that. And with Cameron Dukes, Cameron showed a
lot too, Like he showed that little giddy up, an underhand toss coming
out of his end zone, a nice scramble to set up a two point
conversion. He showed them a mobility that really helps in this league. And
after watching Mack God love him. He's got a lot of strong suits.
Mobility ain't his long suit, although he could run when he needed to and
has shown that obviously in the USFL as well. Was some interesting highlight runs
where he kind of got cartwheeled at the end of one of them. But
that mobility with Chat and the guys behind him is just it's interesting because you
know, we've had guys like Rockie Ray up here, Mclaubethel Thompson who were
more the traditional back, you know, dropped back guys. So to see
the guys running around a little bit and extending plays, I think Argo fans
are gonna like that style, and hopefully everybody is able to you know,
fulfill what they want to do by buying that a little bit of expert time
by scrambling out of the pocket. Well, I think I think that's a
good point. And you have in you know, Ben got kind of pre
the USFL you know, he kind of got cut in their training camp.
But having you know, Brian Scott there and even you know Chad in his
background, but getting these I guess fresh quality quarterbacks up there, I think
it's exciting. And we talk all the time, you know, it's the
X Belt, like how are they all going to do? All these quarterbacks
and everything? But at least right now, it seems like the Argos are
in a really good spot. Not to focus too much on that, but
in terms of carrying over from last year that this year just you know,
championship team and everything the rest of the roster, how do the Argos look
here headed in because obviously, you know, it wasn't the prettiest season and
win, but they got it done and it was you know, I heard
they they just said, we're on the sidelines. We all got to get
together here and win a peg and kind of everything else. But how have
they done carrying over to the season. You know, it's it's been interesting
because I have not seen any championship merchandise. I have not heard anybody talk
about twenty twenty two unless they were asking about it. Ryan Dinwoody at the
beginning of the camp said, hey, if you if you're looking in the
rearview mirror, you're not looking ahead. And if you look too much in
the rearview mirror, you know, we're screwed essentially. So that's that's been
the mantra is twenty twenty two is nice. Take from it, what you
needed in terms of your development. But CFL is going to be tough.
The's is going to be tough again. Hamilton has improved, Ottawa has improved.
Montreal might be the wild card in all of this. They might be
better than people will thank or they may be you know, they may be
the week sister this year. But you know, you've got a few veterans
on that team who want to win, and they're always always that surprise team
in the CFL. So we can't take anything for branded um because team knows
it. Just can't, you know, throw on the beautiful new uniforms,
go out there and win the games. They've got to go and put in
the work. And that's been evident this year, and and all of the
coaching staff has been very, very firm in terms of, Okay, this
is what we have to do to get better. And it's been always always
looking at didn't. Woody's mantra is two percent better every day, and that's
that's been the goal, is to get better every day. I was just
got off with JJ Adams talking BC Lions preview and I said, the most
intriguing story landing me is Coddy for Jarthy win Montreal. I can't think of
more more exciting just I mean, he's been on the show now in the
offseason. I'm a fan, and I think he's kind of going in full
full heart, you know, full steam ahead. I don't think he knows
any different. But I think the East, you know people and you get
all these poop pooing and everything of the East. I think it's going to
be exciting this year. I think there's a lot of mobility over there,
and you know, you get Mizzoli back and everything else to kind of see
how that looks. Yeah, I agree. I don't think anybody in the
East is taking anybody for granted. Things will obviously start to play itself out.
But you know, you mentioned last year the kind of weird season it
was, I don't know the last time a team and maybe it happens more
than you think, but it was really weird where we led the league in
games miss due injury and still won the Great Cup. You know, people
looked and said, oh, Toronto at Toronto loa Toronto, We've never really
had our starting lineup until toward the end of the season. And look,
you know, oddly enough playing our best football toward the end of the season.
So um, you know that hoping obviously that that replicates this year,
but maybe a fewer number of games missed due injury because it was it was
nuts last year. It's it really is a testament of the coaching staff and
the guys who were in those you know, backup roles that were able to
come in and sustain success until the guys got back and a lot of them
just didn't start rolling back. Just before the end of the season. I
got to talk with coached in Witty during the media day at the end of
the season. I don't get a lot of obviously opportunities to kind of talk
one on one with CFL head coaches like that. But you know, incredible
guy. You know, conversation, what does the growth that you've seen him
have here as a leader? You know, coming in and obviously with kind
of it was, you know, messy, kind of here we're in the
CFL, We're getting through everything and moving into this year more normalcy. But
what do you attribute from him to just kind of the leadership on the team.
He's still a tough coach. And maybe this goes back to something that
we touched on a little bit earlier today. You know, his first year,
he really wanted to work the guys and get as many plays in and
training camp so he could take a look at film and implement what he wanted
to do. And this year, you know, if a guy is a
little bit mcduppit will take the day off. Is pushing them to the last.
He knows the guys now, the veterans especially, so that's a big
help. But you know, I think he learned in the first year.
There was there was a play at the end of a scrimmage where he was
thinking about, Okay, maybe I should let the guys go. It's a
hot day. Now let's play one more play and in that play, Isaiah
Cage was injured for the entire season, So that was a learning curve from
coach Dinwoody. And you know, he continues to get better, and you
know every coach does, every player does with the more experience they have in
a specific role. And he's continuing to learn as a head coach and has
the respect of everybody in the organization. And you know two years here he
was you know, he won the East and the regular season, uh,
you know, came within fifteen minutes of winning the Eastern Final, and then
won the Great Cup last year. So he's been very successful here. And
I don't think anybody here expects the art goes to be anything but successful good
enough to win the Great Cup. We hope so from sitting here in golf.
But they're a lot of the teams in this league. Last thing for
me today obviously you get to know a lot of these players and stories and
who are you looking to see kind of standout performances this year on the field.
Yeah, I'm interested to see guys who performed well in other uniforms and
how they play here. You know, floor and flow. Mlada is a
guy who really flashed last year if you look at the status, you go,
huh. But if you're kind of scratch into the surface and just look
at quarterback pressures, which isn't a widely you know, circulated stats sadly in
the CFL, you'd see what kind of pressure he would put on a Darius
Pickett coming over, you know, to play the sam linebacker spot after being
Montreal's most outstanding defensive player year ago. Jordan Williams, who astonishingly you know,
we were able to acquire on a trade, had nothing to do with
BC or being unhappy in BC. His day job is as a day trader
and he was tired of getting up at three o'clock in the morning to get
work done in BC because of the I'm change, wanted to come east.
And you know, the Argos traded the ninth overall pick in the CFL draft
to get him. And if this guy in his third season, going into
his third year, let's just say, he wouldn't have lasted until the ninth
spot in the draft. So it was a good trade for the Argos.
And that gives a little flexibility there because he can play the mike, he
can play the wills. So I think I think that those are the kind
of guys. And I'm curious to see how Roberts and Daniel comes back after
a couple of years of being injured. He's looked really good at at the
field half pack spot, so I'm sorry the boundary halfack spot. So I'm
really curious to see how he does under a full season. But they've got
some guys, there's some good guys in this camp. Well, Mike,
I appreciate it. I'm excited. I'm really excited for this season now because
we've gotten through the XFL here and we've been doing that and we're getting us
valve rowing through I do it feels like putting on old shoes now we're going
our third season and the CFL coverage, I appreciate it. We have our
flight's book to Hamilton's. I hope I see the Argonauts there, hopefully against
America's CFL team, the BC Lions. But I hope to see you guys
there, and I really appreciate your time. Hopefully we get you on here
once we get some games roll and then talk some more Argonauts anytime you need
me on just as and thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank
you well. I just purchase my ticket here. I couldn't fly into Hamilton's
I was trying to. I'm coming back to Toronto here for a Gray Cup
in November, so hopefully I'll be seeing this young them in Steve Melton,
how are you doing so? You definitely will? I think every night in
the writers suite, won't you remember? We have a suite there for all
writers football writers of Canada and you're one of them. Well, that's good.
We're all in. I'm all in. I've got everything we have.
Steve here, we're talking. We've done BC Lions preview on this show,
We've done the Argonauts and now we're doing the tie Cats there Steve finishing training
camp here. How is everything going in Hamilton with the Tyecauts. Well,
it was going on, I would think fairly well read until yesterday there was
some kind of accident on campus and it wasn't on the field with a player.
They You know how you were always looking for those little gems. This
is a team that brought in a lot of high priced help, proven help,
but they needed to because of the salary cap, have a couple of
surprises at a couple of spots, and they found one in a guy named
Justin McGriff that comes out of Utah State. You don't see this in this
league. He's foot six and fast and makes really good moves. He's been
terrific in training camp. In the exhibition game last week, he dropped the
first bass after running a brilliant route and outdistancing the guy by ten yards on
the street. Fly dropped it and then caught four passes in very very heavy
track traffic, like right over the middle to prove that. You know that.
So he had made the team, and had made the team as a
starter, And yesterday there was some accident. I don't know what it was,
but it was off the field and it was somewhere on campus, and
I don't know what it was. I don't know if he tripped and fell
and there's a lot of construction around here or whatever. It was still investigating
that. He's done for the season, right, so he never got to
play. He was the kind of guy exactly what they were looking for,
was the tallest receiver by three inches. The quarterback they're using bow isn't isn't
the tallest guy in the world. So it always helps to have a guy
that you can you can see by looking over the top instead of having to
look underneath. And yeah, so that that that was a bit of a
setback. But they were very, very very deep at receiver, both Canadian
and American receivers, so m and Anthony Johnson, who was briefly with the
Buffalo Bills, was a guy they were looking at as a possession receiver.
He played last year. He's out but only for a couple of games.
So other than that, they've been okay. They got a lot of They
have some injuries on the defensive front, but they had too many players,
proven CFL players on the defensive front anyway, somebody was going to have to
go on some kind of list or get cut. So now they're hurt,
but there but yeah, they're they're they're a veteran team, so I think
that injuries could play a factor, but they've built that into the way they've
built their roster. It feels like there's obviously, with with Bow and everything
else, really high level of expectations this year going. I mean, is
it one of the higher team profiles in terms of like we kind of got
to deliver this year. Yeah. It probably similar to to Zach the year
he was coming off the Great Year and had come back after injury. You
know, uh this in recent years read this is a this is this is
the closest I've seen to this this year or nothing type of thing. I
mean, they've got they've got some futures tied into this too, but this
is this is made for a Hometown Gray Cup. You know. They they
they almost won the one the last time they had a Hometown Gray Cup.
They had a team that was built for that, but this has built even
more for that. They went and got only players that had had some some
success, you know, either in the league finals or the conference finals.
So uh and guys that were they upgraded a lot of positions they're up against
or over the salary cap. So and that's you know, they'll have injuries
to accommodate that. Uh So. Um yeah, that this is a I
think it's it's not Great Cup or bust, but it's pretty well nothing.
But at least an appearance in the Great Cup will do. I mean,
anything else will be a failure. Uh than anything short of appearing in the
Great Cup is a failure. It's just weird, you know because obviously we
were there back Hamilton, you know, coming up short and set you know,
so close here, and it just felt like that they completely collapsed last
year, the tie Cats. And I know that Dane had some injuries and
everything, and obviously he got shipped over here to BC, But what why
why did you attribute to sense the kind of collapse last year? It was
just a there's a there was a lack of sustained mental toughness, I think
an emotional toughness now that began at quarterback for sure, and Dan would be
the first one. I felt he took almost too much blame there, but
that was a lot to blame. There was a lot to blame there,
especially early they fell behind, and every game looked the same. Read even
the games that they won, where they they do well in the first half.
I thought there was a coaching issue last year in terms of adjustments at
the at the half, you know, they'd look really really good. The
defense was good most of the year, except on always a key drive in
the fourth quarter they'd get a bad punt in there. Like, they all
looked the same even the games that they won. They lost the first four
and the fifth they won. The other team was coming back and kind of
ran out of real estate and it was Ottawa or they would have been owing
five. With every game looking the same, The Great Up looked the same.
They are sorry. The playoff loss to Montreal looked the same. I'm
wondering it wasn't an imprint. They poo poo maybe on this one, but
I wondered if there was, it wasn't a bit of a psychological print of
losing two Great Cups in a row, particularly the way they lost a second
one at home when it was theirs, right, they was theirs. You
know, it took until the fourth quarter until untill Zach found what everybody knew
was going to be a penetrable weakness because they were missing a couple of players
in the defensive backfield. But it took them to the fourth quarter to find
it. And even then they had a chance at one of the greatest comebacks
at history there and it was a a you know, I would say it
dropped pass in the end zone. That pass was there, a great defensive
play, but you got to make that play and they went and then they
lose it in overtime, and even in overtime, there was an interception in
which the offensive receiver should have broken it up as a defensive player, so
they'd have one more play. So there's that, And I'm not sure that
when they started having some turnovers and fumbles from key positions in the first couple
of games last year and got off to the usually get off to an old
two start or won three start, and except that one year they went fifteen
and three. They usually do that, and they were fighting, well,
they were really fighting from a last year, and that just problems multiplied.
They didn't have good kicking and have good placement kicking till maybe seven games eight
games into the season last year. And when that came and they solidified the
offensive line, the quarterbacks started playing better. You know, like Dane had
a pretty good last third of the season. Were you surprised to see him
basically traded. I mean it kind of shipped off to BC for kind of
a bigger chips here. It feels like, well, yeah, I think
they were in a way trying to help him out, but they didn't really
help him out that much. I mean, they couldn't have brought him back
after I mean, it was just one of those things where they felt they
got a sense that bo was available. They got a sense when they saw
him in in the West semifinal that his arm was okay, and when he
came off the bench in the fourth quarter, and that kind of solidified things.
I think the fact that the Dean was so obviously and self admittedly and
publicly and I commend him as a human being for that, for basically talking
about the stresses that he was under and the pressures that he was under and
admitting a lot of things, but at all that isn't always the right way
to do it if you're happening to the quarter of a football team, right,
So, so I think that's what they felt. As a reporter,
I felt differently, you know, watching him as a human being conducted himself
and be honest about it. I really like that. But they know that
he's a pretty good player. But they think that Bow has the championship pedigree
and they liked Schultz enough to keep them around as a backup, so they're
pretty you know, they're pretty good one too at quarterback there. So assuming
that Bow and Bow takes it, comes in, takes command. I mean,
he really runs things and he he has a presence with the defense too.
They really and he brought players players came here because of that. I
mean, they's signed some big names and that wasn't going to be the number
one reason those players came. But it was a factor, do you I
mean, and obviously his pedigree and mental all of that stuff, but I
mean physically is Bow and from what you've seen in training campsons, I'm right.
Did he play a little bit? Yeah, it was kind of They
weren't sure if he was going to go in. He yeah, he won't
play a Friday night. He played only two series and really they were short
series. He was out by the end of the first quarter. They liked
what he saw. He threw. He was three for six, but two
of the six were drops, including the one I mentioned at the top of
the show to Justin McGriff who ran this incredible pattern. Bow hit him in
full stride right in the midst and he dropped it and uh, you know
about a fifty yard pass. And so, yeah, he's looked pretty good.
He's looked pretty accurate. He you know, I'm sure he doesn't have
the same you know, he's not the same guy that he was years ago.
But but but he's smart. Uh, he won't elude people with his
speed the way you know, some other quarterbacks do or the way that boatd
at one point, but he does allude. I mean, he just can
make that one like Ricky Ray was later in his career, Just make that
one little shift with his shoulders and all of a sudden that the guy goes
rushing by him, so you don't have to run out into the open to
do it. So and he could get out enough. And they've they've really
really made sure the offensive a line is ready. They'll go with three Canadians,
not four. I mean, Chris fan Zile is there as an option,
but he's hurt, likely out the first six games and didn't play much
last year. So you know, they've they've really taken care to you know,
they're spending money on a Merrit tackles at left tackle, bringing back Joel
figure Oha who started here back in twenty thirteen. And you know he may
be a little long in the tooth, he's got a lot of experience at
Bowl. Likes him because he's big, and James Butler is a tremendous run
back and so they had much they you know, they had a pretty good
running back who ran downhill hard last year, but this guy has more has
more ability and a quicker first few steps, so he's got breakaway speed once
he gets to the second level. Well, that was the actually gonna be
My next question was about Butler, and obviously we were talking with JJ over
for the BC Lions and kind of you know that to me that was a
big loss when you he yeah, they didn't pick up his contracts or whatever
he decided to go. How has he made a difference so far? Do
you think he's going to be a big difference man, Yeah, you know
they're going to use him on the you know, they're using him in a
variety of ways. I mean, he's pretty good out of the back,
Y'll catching the ball. So I think what they're going to try and do
is isolate him in a couple of ways. They may swing him into a
short side wide receiver at times, like either on a swing pass, but
the bubble I think the bubble screen is what they're really looking at there.
Where at the worst he's going to be one on one with somebody if the
other guys even come close to making the other two guys even come close to
making their blocks, I don't know that. Like with his speed in his
size, he can go over or around people. That's the feeling and assuming
he stays healthy, and they're for a similar type backup, so there's a
bit of a bit of a runoff between two guys for his backup, but
it'll be clearly as a backup and practice STEO type of things. He he
was a big get for him, just as their middle They wanted to get
tougher at middle linebacker. They I mean, they're they're middle linebacker. Made
the All Star team in the Eastern All Star tacking last year, led the
team in tackles, fourth most tackles, fifth most tackles in Tyekat history.
But I think he said he's aid Samier German is a much more physical type
of player, very much a physical guy, and they're looking for that they
needed to get. They thought they needed get more physical. And when I
talked at the top, but I thought they lacked a little bit of emotional
toughness at key moments last year. I think they felt that at times that
was related to physical toughness too, you know. I mean they lost a
lot of fourth quarters last year. A lot. I mean, at one
point in the season, particularly the first twelve games, the margin by which
they'd been outscored in the fourth quarter was spectacular, Like it was ridiculous.
It was like the game was played in two into two parts. In terms
of coaching staff for this year, right, rival's back, we've happened.
What do you make of the staff that they have going in this year?
Well, they did one thing that happened. I don't know if you're aware
of. There there was a cap on coaching staffs financially and on numerically and
also on football operations u numerically cash wise. So what they did was roll
that all into one. So instead of being capped at eleven coaches, plus
the salary cap for both you know, for football opstion, for football coaching,
the whole thing now is capped. There's a there's an overall salary cap
for all the football operations, so that includes staff like that. That doesn't
include trainers and doctors and those those kind of people, but it does include
you know, scouts and you know gms and all of those things. Even
the portion of probably Orlando because he's president of Football Ops and you could have
it, you can, and you have twenty five jobs in those positions,
and so a Tiecats chose to go to thirteen coaches that way, so they
have now an extra coach on special teams, and they brought and they brought
in the former Argyll head coach, Scott Milanovitch in a similar role to that
when they brought in Kahari Jones last year, but they're doing it from the
start of the year. Last year was in result, I think, as
it was a reaction to offensive woes that team couldn't That team could put up
yards last year but could not score touchdowns. Now that's another reason they went
and got bow Like bow is touchdown first, like always, like both considers
turning it over to the field goal kicker a defeat, so that that mentality
is something that they wanted there. But also the open wasn't scoring a lot
of touchdowns in general lecture for a lot of reasons. So I wondered if
Scott Milanovitch was there to kind of help with a little bit. He's I
mean, Tommy Condell, who is the open supporter, is also the quarterbacks
coach and is good with quarterbacks. He's developed a lot of them over the
years, so it's just an extra set of eyes that kind of thing.
Scott Milanovich, of course Orlando worked with him at the twenty twelve Great Cup
team when they were both with the Articles, and Melanovich, of course,
is a very proven football man. He doesn't want to be a head coach
right now, but I think he'd He's going to commute a little bit from
his Florida home, but I think eventually he wouldn't mind getting back in.
This is a pretty good way for him to do it in terms here just
looking forward, I'm looking here before we get you out of here. Obviously,
big game next week, you know Winnipeg Alante Peg going to be a
big What are you looking to see? And I mean I know we had
the preseason games said this weekend, but when it comes to the real deal,
what are you looking for against Winnipeg that first week? Hold on of
the ball, I think that's the big thing. You know, we don't
know Seth small way back, that's the kicker, and he's been away his
wife had a baby, and so he's on a suspended list because he wanted
to take longer than you normally would. It's a family guy. I don't
know what else is going on there, but but so hang onto the ball.
I mean that was the big problem much of last year, particularly early.
In fact, many of the last part of the last decades, scept
for a year or two, hanging onto the ball early in the season and
beating yourselves has been a big thing. I think they're looking for fewer penalties
than they got against Toronto, a little more discipline that way. And now
you've got two big possession receiver or two big receivers out of the five you're
gonna use not playing in Anthony Johnson and who will be back, and Justin
mcbriff who will not, so both pretty good at spreading the ball around and
the manner in which they use Butler on offense. On defense, I'm I'm
also looking for Lawrence Woods to maybe take one back. He's playing defense.
You know, he's the hell of a punt returner and a kick returner too,
so they'll use him a bit back. They're probably just on kickoff returns,
and so I'm looking for special teams there with Ryan Bolts influence, because
he's a heck of a special teams coach. On defense, the linebacking corps
is fairly new. The front four has four starters, but they've also got
four starters hurt. They had eight starters, you know, to fill basically
six positions, so the rotations six or seven, right, and see how
that will affect them against Winnipeg, who has a pretty good running game and
has the biggest line in the league. Still, I think that line's not
as good as it once was, but it's still among the premier lines in
the league. Those are the three things. How do they doing the essentially,
how do they do the trenches? And how does both find enough guys?
And and as Butler, the key to the offense is this spinoff Butler,
Butler and Tim White. Is that? Is that the way it's going
to be? And as there at one point I wondered if there was enough
football to go around reading you know, they just so many people who could
play. But that was used to that. He played on some pretty powerful
Caligary teams. They didn't always get to the Great Cup or win it,
but they were always very powerful, very deep. Well, I'm excited.
I think this season is going to be good. I'm sure a lot of
eyeballs here with Hamilton with bo and hosting and all that stuff. So hopefully
we'll get you back on here once we get two games. But Steve Melton
over here with the Hamilton's Spectator. Really appreciate it. Thanks Raid, a
huge special thanks to all of our guests today for coming on. Like I
said, really appreciate the professor Andrew Murray making time. I said, Andy,
I texted him the other day of the layoffs, that's because we need
the professor this week, Andy coming on whenever he is called doing due diligence.
And then obviously Evan Willsmore taking time, busy getting into the summer and
his busy work schedule. Certainly appreciate Evan's time. Thanks again to Furby everyone
over at Run, the SIMS everyone, they're doing the work for the USFL
and the XFL, all of that fantasy stuff that's kind of way above my
head, but certainly reciate their insights. And then the three CFL writers we
had on today, J. J. Adams and Mike Hogan. Mike's not
the writer, Mike's an announcer, but you know what I'm saying, the
three CFL talent JJ, Mike, and then certainly appreciate it. Steve Milton
as well. Looking forward to catching up probably having a beer with at least
Steve here coming up in Hamilton for November. We have our ticket spot for
the Great Cup. That'll do it for me today. Like I said,
you keep track on Twitter and the YouTube channel, but Pat and I will
be here Monday for our USFL recap, CFL Live pregame show on Thursday,
and then a special live episode with Andy Murray next Friday. Busy Times Rookie
Draft episode coming as well June sixteenth. Thanks as always, like to subscribe
to you next time.