WEBVTT 1 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:21.160 Welcome to Amusing Jews, where we celebrate Jewish contributors and contributions to American popular 2 00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:26.679 culture. I'm Jonathan Friedman and I'm Joey Agelfield. Producer engineer Mike Tomern is 3 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.559 working somewhere behind the scenes. Amusing Jews is a project of a Data Savareine 4 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:35.600 Congregation for Humanistic Judaism, the Cool Shool Jewish Cultural Community, and Atheist United 5 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:41.240 Studios. Hey Joey, the theme song to the long running PBS animated series 6 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:46.439 Arthur, performed by Ziggy Marley and the Melody Makers, begins every day when 7 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:50.600 you're walking down the street and everybody that you meet has an original point of 8 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:56.479 view. Questions about what constitutes originality aside, there's nothing new under the sun 9 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:00.719 and all that, this song touches on something deep. The way we see 10 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.280 the world is shaped by our unique experiences. This is a big reason why 11 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:08.719 we like stories. It's the closest we'll ever get to truly knowing about someone 12 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:12.640 else. Where they came from, what they've been through, where they're going, 13 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:17.040 how they think, how they feel, and how they develop and express 14 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:22.040 their points of view. Our guest today is passionate about learning from and sharing 15 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:26.760 these kinds of stories. We're delighted to talk with Maggie Rowling Smith, a 16 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.799 writer, filmmaker, and activist who directed the documentary Tucson Salvage, co written 17 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:36.599 with her husband Brian Javis. Smith co adapted Brian's collection of short stories into 18 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:41.879 the Amazon Prime series Spent Saints, and directed the documentary Whole Enchilada, about 19 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:45.640 the roots of Tucson's desert rock music. She is also the author of a 20 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.799 forthcoming young adult novel, Catamopus, and edits the literary magazine Glue Gun. 21 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:55.159 Maggie, welcome to Amusing Jews. Hey, thanks so much, thanks for 22 00:01:55.159 --> 00:02:00.480 having me on. So as I mentioned Tucson Salvage, Whole Enchilada, and 23 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:04.159 much of your work centers on Tucson, Arizona, where you live. What 24 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.199 makes Tucson such a right place for storytelling? Well, Tisson was built on 25 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:15.560 the spirit and literal bones of the Tajona o Odum tribe, and it's a 26 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:21.039 very haunted place by many people over many years accounts. It's also super close 27 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.520 to La Fronterra and No Gallas and all of the border crossing casualties that we 28 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:31.240 have every year. So there's a really great synergy between native culture and Hispanic 29 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:37.199 specifically Mexican culture here. And it's also a really great town because u of 30 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:43.280 A is such a good college public wise, so we have some curious and 31 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:49.360 interested people between the professors and their families and the students, which makes it 32 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.680 neat. And then it's also along the I tend the major stop between Los 33 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:58.639 Angeles and El Paso, so we have a lot of truckers and trains and 34 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.520 I don't know, transient people that come through here, So it makes it 35 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:07.400 a pretty great place for storytelling. Yeah. So I'm a big advocate for 36 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:12.560 local stories, local history, and I remind people that everyone is, in 37 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:16.240 fact the historical figure. History is a process and it's always unfolding, and 38 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:22.599 human history is a collective story of all of us. Are kind of impossibly 39 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:27.199 intricate story of all types of people, not just the rich and famous and 40 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.400 powerful and so forth. I'm wondering if you share that point of view. 41 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:36.240 That's something that I pick up on when I'm looking at your documentaries in particular. 42 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.479 Absolutely, I think that we've kind of settled as a society for the 43 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.919 Bell curve. You know, it's like, as long as everyone has like 44 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:46.599 a mediocre like C plus life. It's fine, and a few people rise 45 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:51.039 to the top and a few people fail. And I guess I'm very not 46 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.919 interested in the top one two percent that is well covered by regular media. 47 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.000 I'm much more interested in either the people who are doc in the middle and 48 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.599 realize it and are trying to do something about it, or the people that 49 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:10.039 have just completely fallen through the crass. So your documentary, Whole Enchilada explores 50 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:14.280 Tucson's rock scene. What about that scene makes it so special and what attracted 51 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.480 you to it and maybe to the subject of music in general. Well, 52 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:23.839 Tucson is a strange place because we're so isolated with desert all around us. 53 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:29.639 But we do have that awesome Mariaki influence coming up from Mexico and Marteno influence, 54 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.560 and then we also have like hip hop because of the reservation nearby, 55 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.480 and heavy metal because of the reservation nearby, and then we have this kind 56 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:44.000 of like college rock jangle rock scene too. It's a great confluence of stuff. 57 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:47.759 And of course there's the legend of the Cowboy, and we're only fifty 58 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:55.439 minutes from the OK Corral, so you definitely have the gun toting libertarians here 59 00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:00.319 represented as well, So it makes for great storytelling, but it also makes 60 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:04.399 for great music and great self expression, and the way that it's been able 61 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:09.959 to stay niche all this time and not blow up like Seattle or you know, 62 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.560 even somewhere like Tempe. You at the gym Blossoms years ago experienced that 63 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.600 kind of temporary spotlight that kind of amalgamized everything. We've always kind of stayed 64 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:24.800 out of the fray, except for maybe Linda Ronstadt. So we're doing pretty 65 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:28.519 okay for originality here. I don't know if you want to share about this. 66 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.600 I know that you mentioned before to me that you have a little bit 67 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:38.560 of rock and roll history in your family. I believe with Susie cream Cheese. 68 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:46.519 Ah, yes, that's true. My mom's stepsister is actually purported to 69 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:53.360 be the actual Sezee cream Cheese of Frank Zappa fame, and did in fact 70 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:59.199 run off from rural at North Carolina where she was from, and disappear into 71 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:03.920 the hill and canyons of LA for several years. She confirmed the is you 72 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:09.800 know on a few liner notes as credited with tambourine and some other things. 73 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:14.839 So it was very exciting when I saw Zapple plays ZAPPI wore my Sez cream 74 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.800 t shirt and had Dweezl sign it, so it felt like we were coming 75 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:25.519 back to the roots. Very cool. So I think when we think about 76 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:31.560 popular culture, we generally think of big entertainment projects, mainstream appeal, monetary 77 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.360 success, that kind of thing. But in the broader sense, pop culture 78 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:42.759 is really the people's culture. I would even call it our contemporary shared collective 79 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:47.720 folk culture. Film, television, radio, books, comic books, magazines, 80 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:51.600 and all of that, whether or not they attract a large audience. 81 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:57.560 So you know, if we have big budget, blockbuster spectacles on one side 82 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:01.279 of this pop culture spectrum, your films are perhaps on the other side of 83 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:05.120 that spectrum. Both types of movies, of course, tell stories, but 84 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:10.959 in a profound way. The stories you tell in Tucson Salvage in particular, 85 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:16.240 are more real, both because they are unvarnished non fiction and because the people 86 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:20.839 you profile are, at least on the surface ordinary. But as anyone who 87 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:27.800 has ever lived lives knows, there are many complicated and sometimes tragic layers that 88 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:32.040 make up what we call ordinary. So my question for you is how and 89 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:38.800 why did you decide to give voice to these people in Tucson Salvage and some 90 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:44.279 of your other projects. So my husband, Brian Smith does a column called 91 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.199 Tucson Salvage in the Tucson Weekly, and there's a story that appears every two 92 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:53.639 weeks, and he's specifically trying to give voice to the underserved. And he 93 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:57.360 gave me access to eight and a half year's worth of columns and said, 94 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.279 you can pick the people you want for the documentary. So the way that 95 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:05.720 I kind of analyzed that was sort of people that I thought no one had 96 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:11.319 ever seen on screen before, or people who were so rarely put on screen 97 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:16.240 that they were often stereotyped or undermined when they were put on screen. And 98 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:22.399 I tried specifically to take out as much movie magic as possible, Like I 99 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.759 didn't use any music during there to underscore or change any of the emotion. 100 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.959 I just let them tell the story and their own words and tried to really 101 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.200 edit it with the flow of their own personal monologue. And I spent a 102 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.639 lot of time with the people in the places where they either lived or or 103 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:45.360 camped or just tried to get a really authentic feel for who they were and 104 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.840 then bring them to the big screen. And some of the people are very 105 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.559 specifically kind of like scary to the main screen, and I feel like most 106 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.240 people wouldn't stop and even give them a dollar through their window. So I 107 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:01.360 think it's important that they have the chants as viewers behind the safety of their 108 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.960 screen to actually hear these people out and see what's going on in their lives. 109 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.720 Yeah. I really appreciate the way you humanized these stories, and the 110 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.840 bare bones approach is really effective. I'd prefer it. I think the stripping 111 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:20.200 down, stripping away all of that glitz and glamour and just showing people how 112 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.360 they are, it's really powerful. The coolest thing about doing that was The 113 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.600 Loft is like the Art House theater in Tucson, and when it debuted, 114 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.840 we had a screening there and we invited all the participants and they all brought 115 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.720 their entourage of their families or whoever they wanted to bring, and they sat 116 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:43.480 in the first like ten rows, and just watching their faces when they saw 117 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.639 themselves on the big screen was super powerful, because not only did they think 118 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:52.240 they didn't have stories worth telling in almost every single case, but when their 119 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.120 friends saw them, it was like they totally validated their lives and some of 120 00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.000 the people who really had I mean, most people in the film had really 121 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.919 tough lives, but you know, some of the kids of the people, 122 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.919 for example, were really like for the first time, perhaps in respect or 123 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.639 in awe of their mom or dad for all they had been through, instead 124 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.360 of just feeling marginalized or like, oh, we're just crappy, poor people 125 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:22.240 no one cares about in this town. So it was super super moving for 126 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.320 us Arizona outsiders. You know, might you explain a little bit about the 127 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:33.440 substantent differences between Phoenix and Tucson, for instance, Sure, Well, Phoenix 128 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:39.919 is the big metropolitan area that strives to be as popular as Denver or Miami, 129 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:46.679 right, so you get all the plastic surgery and the Kardashian aspirations. 130 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.840 Over there, you see a lot more suicide doors and amazing cars, and 131 00:10:54.279 --> 00:11:01.360 it coincides with there being very low taxes and very poor education publicly, and 132 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.759 also sadly a huge discrepancy of wealth, which leads to a lot of gang 133 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:13.519 violence and racial tension in Phoenix proper, because there's essentially the white part of 134 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.879 Phoenix, and then South Phoenix is black, and then everywhere in between as 135 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.120 Mexican and near the three shall meet, except perhaps on the west side at 136 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:26.399 a head shop. So it's an interesting place, but it's it's pretty problematic 137 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.200 when you're a kid. Most people I knew grew up there and left as 138 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.799 soon as they could at age eighteen, or you know, at least moved 139 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.360 to a suburb for college, and then people come back when they have their 140 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.240 corporate job, you know, or their merrill lynch job, and then they 141 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:45.919 retire there. Because there's lots of golf courses and lots of green grass despite 142 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:50.720 the desert, Tucson is a little you know, blue dot in the midst 143 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:56.840 of a reddish purple or perhaps just red state. And because we're close to 144 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.080 the border and have a lot of well edged cad people in a smaller population, 145 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.320 I think we tend to you know, you'll you'll tend to see a 146 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:09.600 lot more empathy, a lot of signs of you know, giving people water 147 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.000 is not a crime, that kind of thing. Lots of bumper sticker cars 148 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:20.120 keep Tucson weird. You know. There's a real civic pride about being nicer 149 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.720 and being better here, and Phoenix could care less about Tucson and just just 150 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.399 pretty snobby towards us and they pretty much just leave us alone, which is 151 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.519 probably pretty good. Yeah. One of the things that I think you're drawing 152 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:39.519 out is the local nature of our lives, and maybe there are these kind 153 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:43.559 of amazing stories that we would never think of right outside our door, wherever 154 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.440 we might be living. I think there's something inspirational about your approach to focusing 155 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:54.559 on the local, because ultimately that's where we all live and there are stories 156 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:58.120 all around us. That's right. I do like to focus on the local 157 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.960 because when you're you know, so when you live in La most things have 158 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:07.080 been over media saturated, and so you can't ever cover anything that hasn't already 159 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.360 been covered by a much bigger lens and broader perspective. But here you can 160 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.320 really focus on the guy on the corner holding up the sign that's been holding 161 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.559 it up for four years, and what is his story and why is he 162 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.399 still there? And what's his dog's name? And it is It's a nice 163 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:31.960 specificity that I think becomes sort of universal pretty quickly because everyone has that guy 164 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:35.639 in their town, and you know, everyone is reminded like people aren't transparent. 165 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.679 You know, you can't just look through the lawn worker because you just 166 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:41.679 want to see the pretty grass. You need to stop and see hello to 167 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:45.759 them and really get to know them. I hope that the Pulm does. 168 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:50.919 That's that's the idea of the work is just that it inquires people to give 169 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.879 other people a chance. Okay, so I understand you're working on sort of 170 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.679 a follow up to The Whole Enchilada. I am. It is the Last 171 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.320 Night and it's about the band Gentleman after Dark, which is featured in the 172 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:07.039 Whole Enchilada, who was originally produced by Alice Cooper and Dick Wagner and was 173 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:13.480 really going places and they were on People's People magazines like Next Best Hit Thing 174 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:22.559 List like really alongside Princess Diana. And then Inner Records chose to go with 175 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.000 hip hop and they dropped all their rock and roll and their stuff just fell 176 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.320 through the cracks. It's sad and bins for twenty years, and then Forever 177 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:37.360 Records purchased their recordings seeing that they are really quality eighties new wave band that 178 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.960 know not many people knew outside of Arizona, and so their job is to 179 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:50.919 place songs in television programming and Gentlemen after Dark have actually done really well and 180 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.519 had three songs played so far, and one of them was featured in its 181 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.799 entirety in Stranger Things, and as a result of the cult following of that 182 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:07.840 show, they have now over a million hits on Spotify and have playlist presence 183 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.720 and all like they can see the list like seventy two countries or something like 184 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:18.000 that. So this documentary will splice to get their current interview and concert footage 185 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:24.960 with old footage from the eighties and late eighties and sort of present a band 186 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.679 that could have should have been but no one quite knew about. So maybe 187 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.039 you'll help to give them a new audience. I think so. I think 188 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.519 they might be at the point of retirement though, because they didn't really want 189 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.960 to be the old guy band in rock and roll. You know, they 190 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:46.279 were young, in excited and very beautiful, and you know, their whole 191 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.240 look was something else. So it's hard for them. They're they're a band 192 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.360 struggling with their own mortality. Could you tell us a little bit about your 193 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.039 literary magazine, Blue Gun and its publisher are An R. Pressure, so 194 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:03.840 are Our press is named after two of my kids, Reese and Ricky Rose, 195 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:11.919 and it was established because, much like creating your own record label when 196 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:18.039 you're an independent. You know, after my husband had gone through working with 197 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.559 two small publishers and felt like they were not up to the standards, and 198 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.919 basically we had to make up the difference, whether it was with our own 199 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:30.039 tr or our own touring or whatever for the books. We decided to create 200 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.480 our own press, both to put out our work and also to put out 201 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:41.960 work that maybe other people that were more money conscious or success conscious would never 202 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.039 put out. And so we just put out work that we love, and 203 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.679 we do a literary magazine twice a year and it's a labor of love. 204 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:55.799 We just secret basically seek to regain our money and not go into the red. 205 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.600 That's our only goal with it. So we can really choose content that's 206 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.799 meaning full to us. And it spans you know, photography and art and 207 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:10.440 line drawing, and then beyond that, you know, any genre of writings. 208 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.119 So we've really enjoyed doing it, and it's given voice to a lot 209 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:18.200 of people that you know, haven't been published before and kind of got them 210 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:22.359 further so they can either apply for grants or apply for bigger magazines. So 211 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.079 it makes us feel like it's kind of a good way of giving back to 212 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.039 the community too. Speaking of writing, you're working on your first novel, 213 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.359 Katamappis. What's it about? So? Katamappis is the first day of fifth 214 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:41.039 grade for Delilah M. Pennymaker, and she is a latch key kid about 215 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:44.599 to go to middle school and have to get there by herself on her bike 216 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.440 and deal with all of the grown up things of her mom being at work 217 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.279 and her dad's a truck driver and he's gone a lot. And on that 218 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:57.440 day for talking mice appear to her. Katamappis and his friends Mug Blue and 219 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:02.720 round Face, who happened to be the same characters that her dad always tells 220 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.119 her bedtime stories about and that he grew up with. The book kind of 221 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:10.920 goes back and forth, and the two perspectives of, you know, mirroring 222 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:15.599 her life of wanting attachment to her dad, which she never has because he's 223 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.119 always gone, and clinging to being a kid and imagine the world of imagination 224 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.440 and adventure and then being at school and kind of dealing with social pressure and 225 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:30.880 bullying and things that you do in middle school. And it's sort of the 226 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.079 dichotomy of her life. And yeah, I hope there's two more I have 227 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.759 a trilogy in me, so hopefully, hopefully it works out. Sounds great 228 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:44.519 and sounds like you have a very specific message in audience in mind for the 229 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.720 work as well. Yeah, absolutely, and I try to cheat in a 230 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:52.880 lot of social consciousness. One of the main characters is a social justice activist 231 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:59.640 Mouse, and he is going for the anti specist camp of being kind to 232 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:04.519 roof Rats and Reufrats and Phoenix are totally expendable, and they're very in a 233 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:11.559 similar position to immigrant families, unfortunately, undocumented workers and things like that, 234 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:15.839 the way that people talk about them and find them to be totally either transparent 235 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.039 or if they get in their way, they just want to get rid of 236 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.480 them and trap them. And so it's very deliberate. I sneak that in 237 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:30.000 there about being crind to all animals and valuing them, which also sort of 238 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.359 serves my vegan agenda, which I always secretly have as well. Seth. 239 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.640 I also have that secret or not so secret agenda myself, so I appreciate 240 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:45.599 that. And as far as personal ties to the work, my grandfather was 241 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.599 a failed cartoonist and he actually came up with a cat whose name was Catamophus, 242 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.519 and so I turned it into a mouse who lost his leg and his 243 00:19:53.640 --> 00:20:02.160 eye fighting a cat, and so I bring I bring my grandfather's sort of 244 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:07.000 desire to have a character into the mix. And then my dad did used 245 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.759 to tell me stories about catamopus, and so then I, you know, 246 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.279 I didn't. My dad died when I was pretty young, so it sort 247 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.319 of represents my family a little bit too, which is really nice. Yeah, 248 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.720 you wear many hats, you're a lull, you work, you have 249 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.119 your creative pursuits, you're an activist, and you're studying towards the Masters and 250 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:33.759 Jewish studies. Any tips on how to keep somebody's played spinning, Just to 251 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:37.960 do proper self care, I mean, that's honestly the ground of everything. 252 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.240 You have to be in balance to be able to spin anything, right. 253 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:47.359 So just trying to make sure I always get my exercise, always get sneep, 254 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:52.480 always eat pretty well decently at least, and try not to drive myself 255 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.200 too crazy, make make my brain shut down at night, which is the 256 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.519 big challenge. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Maggie and 257 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:04.920 two are all audience. Now back to your regularly scheduled lives. Amusing Jews 258 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.759 is here to amuse you. If you like being amused, go ahead and 259 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.920 click like, and subscribe.