1 00:00:05,919 --> 00:00:36,799 S What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to another edition of Let's 2 00:00:36,799 --> 00:00:40,479 Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy anything you 3 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,719 want about the National Electrical Code and all things electrically related. On today's episode, 4 00:00:45,759 --> 00:00:50,119 we're gonna be answering some questions that were submitted and we're going to do 5 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,960 our best to try to answer these questions for folks. But remember, if 6 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,840 you've got questions that you want to ask me here Let's Ask Paul, all 7 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,960 you got to do is go to Paul Abernathy dot com. It's a very 8 00:01:00,039 --> 00:01:04,400 simple portal. You go there and you just simply fill in your information and 9 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:07,599 click that submit button. It'll come to me and I will do my best 10 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:12,400 to answer those questions for you, either in a podcast like today or in 11 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:17,760 an email. Either way, I will try to get an answer to you 12 00:01:18,359 --> 00:01:22,159 so that you have a better understanding of obviously what you're asking, and we 13 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,480 want to make sure that we give you the information that we need to give 14 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,760 you. Okay, all right, folks, so again, welcome to this 15 00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:33,519 episode. We're going to dig into some of the questions here and hopefully we 16 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,640 can answer these for the fine folks out there. Okay, so let's see 17 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,400 here the first question we have submitted here, and then let's ask Paul episode 18 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:49,400 it says, says Hi Paul, Hope, all is well. I'm a 19 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,480 fast tracked student and I have a quick question about some work a contractor did 20 00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:57,920 at our facility. We have a three phase twenty eight brand circuits applying at 21 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:04,560 overhead door. Existing We asked the contractor to add a circuit to supply a 22 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,120 dock lift. When they got all done, we found that they tapped off 23 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:15,000 the line side of the existing disconnecting means for the overhead door to feed the 24 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:20,439 line side of their disconnect switch for the lift. The lugs allow for two 25 00:02:20,759 --> 00:02:25,199 wires in the existing disconnect, and this is done within ten feet of each 26 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:31,520 other. Okay. My questions are as follows. Would a tap off the 27 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:37,120 line side of an existing disconnect, having the same size wire be protected by 28 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:43,159 the same circ breaker be considered a tap at all or just simply a junction 29 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:47,039 extending the brand circuit? Is this a code violation by any means? Thank 30 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,240 you for your help. Okay, great question. This gets asked on various 31 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,479 levels at different times, kind of similar applications. Now, I don't consider 32 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,599 this a tap. If if it's the same size and you're extending it over 33 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,400 then the only thing that I will remind you is that you have to obviously 34 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:14,159 protect those conductors at their opacity. It's just multiple loads on a single brand 35 00:03:14,199 --> 00:03:17,759 circuit. Now, what you have to be careful is if, for example, 36 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,719 the garage door was the instruction says it had to be an individual brand 37 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:29,439 circuit means it can't supply any other loads but that load. So I'm assuming 38 00:03:29,439 --> 00:03:34,080 this is not the case, and you just have multiple loads on a single 39 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,479 brand circuit. Now, the thing to remind you is you got to be 40 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:44,400 compliant with two ten dot twenty three and ultimately you have to protect that conductor 41 00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:51,159 at its opacity. So if the combined load between the lift and the garage 42 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:58,360 door opener combined can exceed the rating of the branch circuit, then that would 43 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,479 be a problem. Obviously, the overc device is going to trip if it's 44 00:04:00,479 --> 00:04:03,120 pulling more load. You know, say it's set for twenty amps, but 45 00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:06,719 you've got you got a lift that could pull twelve, and you've got the 46 00:04:06,759 --> 00:04:11,879 garage door that could pull twelve, and you try to operate them at the 47 00:04:11,879 --> 00:04:15,039 same time. You're going to have an issue. Now the overcurrent protective device 48 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,560 is going to activate as it should, and that will clear the device. 49 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,600 But again it's to me, it would still be a violation of the intent 50 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,839 of two ten dot twenty three if that was the case, because when you 51 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,199 read two ten dot twenty three, and by the way, I'm in the 52 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,240 National Electrial, I'm in the twenty twenty three addition for those that are following 53 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:40,000 along, it says in the charging statement of permissible loads, and this is 54 00:04:40,079 --> 00:04:43,480 for multiple outlet brand circuits. And again, remember, folks, when we 55 00:04:43,519 --> 00:04:46,279 say multiple outlets, we're not just talking about receptacles. Okay, it is 56 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,160 any point in the system. If you go look up the definition of outlet, 57 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,000 and this would be exactly described in two situations here, whereas the lift 58 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,600 and the garage door opener would be that situation. We have two separate outlets, 59 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:03,639 okay. It says, in no case, shall the load exceed the 60 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,839 brand circuit amp pure rating period. That's the very first sentence, and then 61 00:05:08,879 --> 00:05:12,839 it goes on to say, well, a brand circuit's applying two or more 62 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:23,000 outlets or receptacles, okay, shall shall supply only the loads specific specified according 63 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,839 to the size in accordance with two ten dot twenty three A through E and 64 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,480 the summarized in two ten dot twenty four. So that's a lot of information 65 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,639 and you get a lot of permissive allowances here, right, But at the 66 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:42,000 end of the day, you have to make sure that you're not going to 67 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,600 be exceeding the branch circuit load. And so for a twenty amp, for 68 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,920 example, if you look in the summary, okay, uh, and you 69 00:05:49,079 --> 00:05:54,560 see what's going it's going on with it, it'll tell you that let's see 70 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:00,920 here for twenty amps, it's telling you that the maximum load is twenty amps. 71 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:04,959 And of course you know two ten dot twenty three all those different rules. 72 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,800 So hey, at the end of the day, just make sure your 73 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:12,800 load is not going to be exceeding. We hear this all the time, 74 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,160 right. A good example of this would be supplying it in a dwelling. 75 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,680 I can kind of put it to where people can relate a little bit. 76 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:25,639 If I'm running a twenty anp brand circuit to a receptacle that's underneath the sink, 77 00:06:26,199 --> 00:06:30,879 and it's supplying a garbage disposer and a dishwasher. If the combined load 78 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:36,040 doesn't exceed the twenty amp circuit. Then that's the load. The brand circuit 79 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:41,839 doesn't see anything, it doesn't It only sees load. So if combined, 80 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:44,600 they're not exceeding it. And we're not going to go into details of whether 81 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,680 it's you know, you have the limitations you got to be aware of and 82 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:53,480 two ten dot twenty three when it comes to cordon plug connected versus fixed okay, 83 00:06:53,519 --> 00:06:56,040 and those type of things. But at the end of the day, 84 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:03,439 in my example, a garbage disposer and a a dishwasher, right then you're 85 00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:08,680 not going to be utilizing to ten do twenty three b too, because that 86 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,759 says utilization equipment fastened the place. It says the total rating of utilization equipment 87 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,959 fastened in place other than luminaires, okay, shall not exceed fifty percent of 88 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:25,040 the brand circuit. INMPUR rating, where lighting units cordon plug connect you listen, 89 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,120 equipment not fastened to place or both are also supplied. Well, that's 90 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,279 not the case here. Both of those are fixed in place. They're not 91 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:36,560 connected to cordon plug connected that is not fastened in place, So this rule 92 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,439 doesn't apply, and so I can load that thing up to twenty amps. 93 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,399 Okay, Neither one of those things are a continuous load. So that's not 94 00:07:44,519 --> 00:07:48,199 something that needs to creep in by some folks, right, So this is 95 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:55,759 no different. If the lift and the garage door opener are not going to 96 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,759 exceed the brand circuit rating, then I don't see a problem with it. 97 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:05,279 And if you sizing the conductors from the first disconnect to on the line side 98 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:11,879 to the second one, and they're both the same size conductor that's rated for 99 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,720 twenty ampiers and it's protected by overcurrent protection device that's twenty ampiers, that I 100 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,199 really don't see any harm or any foul in that scenario. The overcurrent device 101 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:24,399 is going to do what it's supposed to do and it's protecting those conductors at 102 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:28,399 their capacity. Where you'll run into problems if you don't check those name plates 103 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:33,519 and you don't know what you're doing, or if it says in the instructions 104 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,039 that that garage door, which is the original thing, says that it has 105 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,600 to be supplied by an individual brand circuit, then you go look up the 106 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:45,159 definition of individual brand circuit and you realize that it can't handle other things, 107 00:08:45,639 --> 00:08:50,720 right, So that becomes where you have another issue. So you're not going 108 00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:52,799 to know that. I guess unless you look at the installation instructions for the 109 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,159 garage door, and chances are it's existing, so you probably have no idea 110 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,120 where that is. But you know you're due diligence. I guess would be 111 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:05,960 to try to contact the manufacturer and make sure other than that it's all protected. 112 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,840 So I don't I don't see any problem with any of that. Okay, 113 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,000 that's the best I can give you on that. Again, remember these 114 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:16,840 are my opinions. Use them at your own risk, and you know it's 115 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,759 uh, do your own due diligence on that. But that's my best advice 116 00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:22,519 I can give you for that. All Right, to see here, do 117 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,960 we have another question? Let's see here looks like we do here kind of 118 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,440 another submission. So let's say, hey, Paul, quick question about the 119 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:37,559 required brand circuit for receptacles in dwelling unit garages under the twenty seventeen inc. 120 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,799 Okay, now it goes on, but I want to make sure that everybody 121 00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:45,120 out there listening, this is the way to do it. Okay, if 122 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,840 you're we're obviously in the twenty twenty three most you know, states are going 123 00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:50,240 to be adopting it in the next year or so, and there's quite a 124 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,159 handful that already are on the twenty twenty three. When you send me questions 125 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,840 on Paul Abernathy dot com, my responses are now going to be on the 126 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,919 twenty twenty three and less you tell me otherwise. So this is a good 127 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:07,879 example where the person that's send it in is letting me know that their question 128 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,000 is dealing with the twenty seventeen a NEC okay, So that's important that you 129 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,279 make that distinction when you're sending in something for me to review. Okay. 130 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:22,039 It goes on to say NEC two ten dot eleven C four and two ten 131 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,879 fifty two G one okay, So that's under the twenty seventeen edition. We'll 132 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:31,840 go look at those and says what is your view on this is? Is 133 00:10:31,879 --> 00:10:37,200 it one required circuit or two? The part that I feel leaves room for 134 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:43,000 discussion is where it says in addition to other parts of this section. Now, 135 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:48,840 remember when it says other parts of this section means there are other requirements 136 00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:54,279 in that section like small appliance, brand circuits, laundry circuits, you know 137 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,279 those type of things. Uh, those That's what it means when it says 138 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:05,240 other parts of this section. It's the whole section, Okay. It says, 139 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:11,559 is that in addition to meaning add it to the other required brand circuits 140 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,840 or in addition to as in, you need another brand circuit. I know, 141 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:22,519 the twenty twenty three code seems to make it more clear. As always. 142 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,559 Thank you for all you do for the electrical trade. Okay, thank 143 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,679 you for the question. So what we've got to do is we will not 144 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:37,080 assume twenty twenty three. We will go back and look at twenty seventeen because 145 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:41,360 obviously we can look at a later editions and see where, you know, 146 00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:48,559 the code panel might have added clarity to something right in making something a little 147 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,440 easier to understand, and of course you can kind of get the intent of 148 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,679 where it was supposed to go, that type of thing. But we won't 149 00:11:54,919 --> 00:11:58,559 leap to that assumption. We'll just go look it up. Okay. So 150 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,159 the first thing we're talking is two ten dot eleven, right, and you 151 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,480 look at two ten dot eleven, and you'll go down and you're going to 152 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:09,840 see there's a C one, C two, C three, and C four. 153 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,080 So this question is about C four. Let me read it to you 154 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,279 now. It says, in addition the number of brand circuits required by other 155 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:24,799 parts of this section. So this means that the garage branch circuit is in 156 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:31,399 addition to bathroom brand circuits that you've got to run, laundry brand circuits that 157 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,000 you've got to run, small appliance brand circuit you have to run, and 158 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:39,840 in this case, it's in addition to any other branch circuit that you might 159 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:43,360 have in the garage, let's say lighting circuits. Okay, So this is 160 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,879 saying in addition to the number of brand circuits required by other parts of this 161 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,320 section. And again, remember when it says this section, it's talking about 162 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,120 all the other requirements in two ten dot eleven. To be more specific, 163 00:12:56,279 --> 00:13:05,279 Okay, it goes on to say at least one one hundred and twenty volt 164 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:09,799 twenty ant brand circuit shall be provided to supply Oh excuse me. It says 165 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,799 in addition to the number of brand circuits required by this part of the section. 166 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:16,240 It says at least one one hundred and twenty volt. Yeah, that's 167 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:22,440 right. Okay, twenty anpure brand circuit shall be installed to supply receptacle outlets 168 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:28,919 in attached garages and in detached garages with power by the way, this circuit 169 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:35,639 shall have no other outlets. Okay, So what this means is this talking 170 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,399 about what it says it's to you have to have at least one brand circuit 171 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,240 to that needs to be installed to supply receptacle outlets in the attached garage. 172 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:56,279 Now it does go on to clarify this in later editions, Okay, but 173 00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:01,600 what this is basically seeing under the twenty seventeen is any of those receptacles in 174 00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:09,519 that garage can be on this twenty amp brand circuit it specifically says shall be 175 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,879 installed to supply receptacle outlets in In fact, so this is brawl, okay. 176 00:14:15,919 --> 00:14:18,679 So I'll give you the other references that he gave to ten dot fifty 177 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,799 two G one in a minute. But let's talk about this. So in 178 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,120 the twenty seventeen code, we had a little bit of a joggle here from 179 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:28,919 the twenty seventeen to the twenty twenty, which we'll look at so I can 180 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,600 explain the difference, and then the twenty twenty three. In the twenty seventeen 181 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:37,799 code, this is very convenient for folks that put things in the garage, 182 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,879 So I have to have it that one twenty amp at least one. Can 183 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:43,559 I have more than one? Absolutely, but I have to have at least 184 00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:50,399 one, and that twenty AMP is installed to supply the receptacle outlets in the 185 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:56,360 garage. So I could do that for the receptacles that are required for each 186 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,759 vehicle bay, which is kind of what they're talking about in two ten point 187 00:15:00,759 --> 00:15:07,279 fifty two g one those receptacles. But under the twenty seventeen code, I 188 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:13,480 could still also do garage door opener receptacles in the ceiling, right if I 189 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:22,000 wanted to do that. Okay, So this basically just says I can that 190 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:26,159 at least one to supply receptacle outlets. Now, can I have additional receptacle 191 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:31,360 outlets in there? Absolutely I could, and I can have a separate brand 192 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:35,480 circuit for that. That's not the intent of what we're trying to go with 193 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:41,080 here. But you have to at least have the one and it shall be 194 00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:46,080 installed to supply receptac outlets in attached gridge. Now, many people read that 195 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:50,759 is saying that you have to have at least one to do all those receptacles, 196 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:56,320 but obviously we can have more than one. Okay, But this also 197 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,919 pushed us that all receptacles in the garage had to be on a twenty amp 198 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,360 circuit, and that's not really what they intended, but that's the way it 199 00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:08,720 can read, right, So that's where we're at. First. Now you 200 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:14,120 have to go look at what it says under the twenty twenty edition to see 201 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,120 where this changed. Okay, so let's go look at the twenty twenty editions. 202 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,799 So let me get back real quick, and I'll just go to the 203 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:26,279 twenty twenty and we'll give it a look. Here, So to ten out 204 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:33,320 eleven, see four, okay, So here's where we start to get a 205 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,759 little clarity. So you understand what it said in the twenty twenty I mean 206 00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:41,000 twenty seventeen all receptacles okay for this twenty amp brand circuit at least one, 207 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:47,480 which meant again you can have more than one. It's because it said at 208 00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:51,320 least one. But it's very clear that the receptacles are going to be on 209 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,039 the twenty ant brand circuits. All right. So here's what it says in 210 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,559 twenty twenty, and there was a change. It says, in addition to 211 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,840 the number of brand circuits require by other parts of this section, at least 212 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,119 one, one hundred and twenty volt twenty Ampure brand circuit shall be installed supply 213 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:15,240 receptacle outlets required by two ten to fifty two G one. Okay, So 214 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,440 what this was introducing and say, hey, look, this is only for 215 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:26,799 those receptacles that are for doing the vehicle bay right in two ten dot fifty 216 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,160 two G one and I will go look at that. So now that we're 217 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,160 in the twenty and it makes specific reference to that, I'll go look at 218 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:38,039 it. And so in two ten dot fifty two G one. Okay, 219 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,960 we'll just go look at it and i'll read it to you. So G 220 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:51,519 one it says in each attached garage and each detached garage with electric power says 221 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:57,039 at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in each vehicle bay and not more 222 00:17:57,079 --> 00:18:00,920 than five and a half feet above the floor. So now in the twenty 223 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,480 twenty, because it makes reference to two ten point eleven C four and it 224 00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:10,799 can only supply the receptacles that are demanded depending on how many vehicle bays you 225 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,519 have under the two ten fifty two G one, then that means you could 226 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:21,960 not do that branch that twenty eight brand circuit that's supplying those specific vehicle bay 227 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:26,680 receptacles that are required if you have a three car garage, three vehicle base, 228 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,960 three receptacles. One is going to be within the footpimp footpint footprint of 229 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,960 each vehicle bay. But they can't apply to the ones that are in the 230 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:41,440 ceiling because that is over five and a half feet, right. So but 231 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:47,319 nothing says you can't run an additional circuit in there, right and supply those 232 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:52,039 fifteen AMP twenty AMP doesn't doesn't matter, okay, all right, So that's 233 00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:57,680 where we're at for that, Okay, So then let's kind of move forward. 234 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,799 So now you see where is a shift. So the twenty seventeen, 235 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,960 all receptacles could be on that a at least one twenty AMP that's what you 236 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,400 want to do. In the twenty twenty, they restrict that twenty anp brand 237 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:18,640 circuit at least one. That's to supply the receptacles in each vehicle bay, 238 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:22,640 and nothing else can be on that but those receptacles. But then you could 239 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,319 also have other brand circuits in there if you want. I mean, nothing 240 00:19:25,319 --> 00:19:27,480 says you can't have two and three and four and five additional brands. You 241 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,799 have to at least one, Okay. So that's where we're at in the 242 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,759 twenty twenty So now let's speed too. Since we brought it up, let's 243 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:40,880 speed to the twenty twenty three, because we want to, you know, 244 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:45,640 kind of go in and finish this chain of thought here. In the twenty 245 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:55,039 twenty three edition of C four, it added additional language to clarify. Okay, 246 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,359 now all the other language it says is now is this kind of also 247 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,079 reverts a little bit. Here's what it says in twenty twenty three. It 248 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,440 says, in addition to the number of brand circuits required by other parts of 249 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,319 this section, at least one one hundred and twenty volt twenty ampier brand circuit 250 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:18,319 shall be installed to supply receptacle outlets, including those required by two ten dot 251 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,720 fifty two G one for attached garages and detached garages with electric power. Right 252 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:26,960 this circuit, I'll have no other outlets. And when it says no other 253 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,720 outlets, it really means lighting outlets and all that kind of stuff. This 254 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:33,960 is just for the receptacles. Now you notice the change here. Okay, 255 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:40,480 The change here was that it's saying, hey, I'm going to go back 256 00:20:40,519 --> 00:20:44,160 to the kind of the language in the twenty seventeen in a way, and 257 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,160 I'm going to let you do the receptacles that are required by two ten dot 258 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,240 fifty two G one, which is one for each vehicle bay. But now 259 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,319 I'm also going to let you because I say including those require means that I'm 260 00:20:56,319 --> 00:21:02,240 going to let you have at least one, and you can do the other 261 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:07,279 receptacles again in the ceiling, not a problem. So that's kind of where 262 00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:11,359 we're at. And then it goes on one additional step here in the twenty 263 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:18,000 twenty three it says, additional brand circuits rated fifteen amp years or greater should 264 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,200 I be permitted to serve receptacle outlets other than those required by two ten point 265 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,960 fifty two G one. So this means you can have other circuits in there. 266 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:33,400 Now. There was nothing really that precluded that in the previous editions, 267 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,079 but the wording was pretty poor because it made people think, Wow, the 268 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,880 only additional ones I can put in there is additional twenty amp brand circuits. 269 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,880 I couldn't run a fifteen in there. Maybe I'm running a fifteen amp in 270 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:52,480 there to to do a central vacuum or something that was in there. And 271 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,079 the intent was always allowing you to do additional it was only requiring at least 272 00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:02,920 one of the twenty amp to serve the loads that it specifies those receptacle outlets. 273 00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:07,000 But if you had, for example, a piece of equipment that you 274 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:11,039 were supplying in there that it was less than twenty, then it always was 275 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:15,319 the intent that it was okay. So under the twenty seventeen to summarize this 276 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:21,119 one for you, that twenty an brand circuit that you run in there can 277 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,559 do any receptacle you want in there, even the ones for the vehicle bay 278 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,119 and ones in a ceiling whatever. And the twenty twenty edition that twenty brand 279 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:36,720 circuit under C four is the minimum of one is designed to supply the receptacles 280 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,920 that are only for each vehicle bay. Doesn't mean you can't have other circuits 281 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,799 in there, obviously, how would you not do that? You get me? 282 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,000 I mean, if people are going to argue the intent, if you 283 00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:51,720 look at in the twenty twenty, if that brand circuit can only supply the 284 00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:56,799 receptacles that are not higher than five and a half feet, then you know 285 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,079 I've met that rule. And if I ran that at least one to meet 286 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,640 that rule, then I'm done. I meant the rule. So if I 287 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,400 want to bring additional brand circuits in there, that's that's not a problem. 288 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,799 I mean, obviously the receptacles have to be GFCI protected they're in the garage 289 00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:14,799 and all that kind of stuff, but that's not a problem. And I 290 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:18,079 think people got lost in those semantics, and that's why the twenty twenty three 291 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,400 just had to clarify. I personally don't really believe that it doesn't allow you 292 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,160 to do it in twenty twenty, just like it didn't allow you to do 293 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,200 it in twenty seventeen. You could have additional circuits fifteen AMP, twenty amp, 294 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,559 whatever you want, as long as you meet the rule itself, anything 295 00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:41,839 additional is perfectly fine. And I think that we sometimes make code changes every 296 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,359 three years to clarify stuff like that, just to make people say, look, 297 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,559 it's not a new rule. It's basically saying, hey, I just 298 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,480 want you to know. We have people that argue this, and they just 299 00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:57,319 made it clear in twenty twenty three that you can have additional brand circuits fifteen 300 00:23:57,319 --> 00:24:00,839 AMP years a greater. I believe you could all always do that. Now 301 00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,599 there's a code purist that say, well, that's not what the code says. 302 00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:06,799 Yeah, but if you go back and read the intent, the intent 303 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,799 was never to preclude additional brand circuits in the garage. It was just to 304 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:17,200 make sure we had at least one dedicated for the receptacles for the vehicle base 305 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,039 and all that kind of stuff. And then people said, well, wait 306 00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:22,920 a minute, why does it only have to do the vehicle bay. I 307 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,160 mean, why can't it do different Why can't it do others? So that's 308 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:32,880 why the changes. But I think in your question twenty seventeen, your you 309 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,599 just go at it right, any receptor you want, obviously, that's you 310 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,920 know, you want to design it properly. But at the end of the 311 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,079 day, the garage door openers the chances of you using it while you're using 312 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,400 something else, and there's a problem. It's it's slimming none. I mean, 313 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,000 there are people out there that argue otherwise, but you know, I 314 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,960 have garage door opener that's on the same circuit as my receptacles in the garage. 315 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,839 When my house was built, it was fine. It was under the 316 00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:03,480 Towe seventeen. Well my house was built way prior to that, but anyway, 317 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,440 that's how it was run. And I've never had a triple. I've 318 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,960 never had an issue garage roping. I'm never in there working on something and 319 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,000 then have the garage door opener, you know, and cause it to trip. 320 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,559 So again, I think a lot of people create semantics where it doesn't 321 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,680 need to be. Hopefully that makes sense to you. I know I like 322 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,000 to ramble, and people will say, Paul, you rambled too much on 323 00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,559 that one. But you know what, I don't care. It's my show, 324 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,200 it's my podcast. I do what I want. Okay, So hopefully 325 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,599 I answered that question for you. All right, let's see here the next 326 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,440 question that was submitted. No I got to. By the way, tell 327 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,079 you folks, thanks for bearing with me your patients as I try to catch 328 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,559 up on these I have. Literally I don't even know, there's probably a 329 00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:47,759 one hundred of these things that have been submitted trying to to, you know, 330 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,119 catch up, and so I appreciate all of you and your patients and 331 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:56,680 helping me as I slowly will catch up to these things. Trust me, 332 00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:00,720 I will. I will get caught up on all these. But keep your 333 00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:04,200 questions coming. I love answering your questions the best I can remember. Again, 334 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,920 these are always my opinions, and I'm just giving you an opinion and 335 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,240 you can take that or leave that or whatever. I do your own due 336 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:18,319 diligence and get too familiar with the codebo Okay. Next one, it says, 337 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,000 first of all, with Texas, with Texas finally having the twenty twenty 338 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:30,960 three code take effect, I am wondering when it actually gets implemented, would 339 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:36,640 that be based off the permit date of the home in new construction or the 340 00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:41,279 date we rough in the house. I am getting conflicting information from my superiors. 341 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:47,960 Okay, that's the first question. Okay, Texas is on the twenty 342 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,920 twenty three. Now any permits, it's based to the permit, not the 343 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,039 rough date. It's based on the permit. So when you pull a permit, 344 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,000 that is what it's under. And again your supervisors may say that, 345 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,759 but you need to check with wherever the permit was pulled. So that's typically 346 00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:11,039 what happens is you pull a permit and the permit is locked to whatever addition 347 00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:14,839 is being enforced at the time that permit was with Now, the only time 348 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,720 that would be different was maybe if your permit expired at some point and the 349 00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:22,799 project still had to be renewed, and the jurisdiction said, now you're renewing 350 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,839 it, you're going to have to do it with under whatever we're under right 351 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,519 now. But typically in my experience, once you lock it and you pull 352 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:37,319 that permit, you everything. It's based on what was an effect at the 353 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,599 time you pulled that permit. Okay, So again that's the best device I 354 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:47,359 can give you on that. You need to check with your local HJ and 355 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,039 see what they're enforcing, rather than listen to your superiors, because that really 356 00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:55,640 means nothing. There's a lot of superiors that don't have a clue. So 357 00:27:55,799 --> 00:28:03,279 what you really need to do is double check with this the municipality and see 358 00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:07,400 what they're enforcing. Obviously, any new permits that would be pulled now be 359 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,279 under the twenty twenty three. And in some states they'll even give you a 360 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,160 grandfather and they'll let you pull in say they just had started enforcing the twenty 361 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:21,480 twenty three, Like in Virginia, when they do a change, they let 362 00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:26,960 the customer choose for one full year if they want to go with the previous 363 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,920 one or they want to go to the new one, So they give them 364 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,599 kind of one year of grace period. That might be different because I haven't 365 00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:37,279 been back in Virginia over ten years now, but that's the way it was 366 00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:40,960 in our jurisdiction. We gave you that kind of the grace period. Then 367 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,160 after that everything had to be whatever the code cycle we were on. So 368 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,960 it's kind of a grace period there. Make sure you check with your jurisdiction 369 00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:53,640 on that. Second of all, there we go. It says, whenever 370 00:28:53,720 --> 00:29:00,000 I have bathrooms with additional receptacles such as near the toilet bar or excuse me, 371 00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:06,039 toilet bar, towel bar, behind a toilet, under a makeup cabinet, 372 00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:08,519 etc. And I'm assuming it me by the toilet it was a bidet 373 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:17,160 something for the bi dat or whatever. It says, Uh, unless the 374 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:23,440 homeowner pays extra for an additional dedicated circuit, I will usually wire these additional 375 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:29,640 receptacles from the nearby lighting unit. Okay. So it's not taking it from 376 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,559 the receptacle circuit that's supplying the counter. He's taking it from the lighting circuit 377 00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:38,079 that's in there. Okay. It says this is because the bathroom circuit is 378 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:45,200 meant for just the receptacle three feet or less from the sink basin. It's 379 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,279 an oxymoron, sink and basin, same thing. And unless the circuit is 380 00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:56,680 dedicated to one bathroom, it cannot supply other outlets in that room. That's 381 00:29:56,759 --> 00:30:00,920 correct, Am I okay? With doing this like this? I don't think 382 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:07,680 we should be responsible for shelling out an additional circuit for no cost. So 383 00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:15,400 I make sure these extra receptacles he calls them outlets, but receptacle outlets are 384 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,680 GFCI protected and go about my day. Thanks again, sir. Okay, 385 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,119 great question. So what we have to do is we have to go back 386 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,960 and look at what again, because you give a lot of you accurate information 387 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,200 in there. But what we need to do is go back and look and 388 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,279 see what it says for those brand circuits. Obviously you can have more than 389 00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:38,279 one in there, right, And so since you're in Texas, we're going 390 00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:42,240 to do the twenty twenty three, and we're also going to be when it 391 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,839 comes to brand circuits, we're also going to be in two ten out eleven 392 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,880 again and in this case see for dwelling, and we're going to look at 393 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,640 the bathroom brand circuits. So this would be C three and I don't believe 394 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,519 you gave a code reference and as I say, we're going to do twenty 395 00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:03,119 twenty three this. Okay, here's what it says. It says C three 396 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:08,799 bathroom brand circuits. It says in addition to the number of brand circuits required 397 00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:11,680 by other parts of this section. And again as I talked about earlier, 398 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,759 that means in addition to other brand circuits that are required by laundry, small 399 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:22,160 appliance, those type of things. It says, one or more one hundred 400 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,720 and twenty volt twenty ampier brand circuits shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlets 401 00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:33,559 required by two to ten fifty two D. Okay, So this branch circuit 402 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:41,440 that's required is for those receptacles in two ten dot fifty two D, which 403 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,480 is the one that requires within three feet at the top inside edge of the 404 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:51,319 basin. It says, and any countertop or similar work surf recepticle outlets. 405 00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:56,240 Such outlets shall have no such circuits shall have no other outlets. Okay, 406 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,240 So absolutely true. Okay, So this is your first rule if I'm running 407 00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:08,240 that brand circuity, that's there at least one to supply those receptacles that are 408 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:13,359 to meet the rule of two ten point fifty two D. Okay. It 409 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,640 does not mean that I can't run additional brand circuits. Okay, then let's 410 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,680 get that out of the way first. All right, so I ran this 411 00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:28,279 brand circuit and it's for those receptacles that are within three feet. You have 412 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,839 met the rule. The rule is met right now. If you have a 413 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,839 number of receptacles that are serving the countertop that would facilitate you more than one, 414 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,880 then you're okay to run more than one. So in your case, 415 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,400 it sounds like just bathroom. You just have some receptacles within three feet. 416 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:47,480 Boom, you ran your circuit, but now you are being asked to add 417 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,119 a receptile down low. Okay, all right, so what can I do 418 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,119 to that? All right? Well, you obviously know the exception, right 419 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,319 which says where that twenty eighth brand circuit is supplying a single bath room, 420 00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:07,079 that one bathroom, then it says outlets for other equipment within the same room. 421 00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,000 A bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in a quarters with two ten 422 00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:12,599 dot twenty three B one B two. Okay. That has to do with 423 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,839 limitations for things that are that are in there with you know, permissible loads 424 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:22,759 and whatnot. So you're perfectly okay, under that application, right, the 425 00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:28,960 installation of that twenty eight brand circuit for the receptacles for each individual bathroom, 426 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,480 okay, is again one of those things where if I'm going to run one 427 00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:37,039 brand circuit and I'm not going to leave that brand circuit, I'm not going 428 00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:39,680 to leave that bathroom, then I most certainly can supply every load in there, 429 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,680 again being aware of your permissible loads and whatnot, because you might have 430 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,759 a light heat combo and ceiling and that would be a problem. You had 431 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:52,559 to look at your permissible loads for that. But other than that, if 432 00:33:52,720 --> 00:34:00,440 I am just supplying receptacles only for the countertop, and and I want to 433 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,119 pop out of that bathroom to hit another bathroom, and all I'm going to 434 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,000 do is do receptacles that are serving the countertops in that bathroom, then I 435 00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:12,639 most certainly can do that. If I want to supply the brand circuit to 436 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,760 that single bathroom, then I can do everything just about in that bathroom, 437 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,679 a lighting, the receptacles, everything. Okay, I'm able to do that 438 00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:31,320 now, answering your question, if nothing prohibits you from having additional branch circuits 439 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,800 in that bathroom, Now, this just happens that it's connected to your lighting, 440 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,280 right, that's not a violation. It still has to be gfc I 441 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,559 protected as you state you do, but it's not a violation to have it 442 00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:46,639 there and come off the lighting if you want. That's perfectly fine. I 443 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,360 mean, just like you could run a separate brand circuit there if you want, 444 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,519 which you choose not to do, and that is totally up to you. 445 00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:59,559 So I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing in this situation. 446 00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:04,639 I really don't, okay. Now, the only thing you have to be 447 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:12,239 concerned about, right is the application of permitted loads and what's going to be 448 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:21,840 plugged into that receptacle that's down below or lower than the toilet behind the toilet. 449 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,679 Is it a plugging cord type of bidet? I don't know. I 450 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,599 know they sell these little modular things that you can buy. Is that what 451 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:34,519 it is for? Then you got to worry about because you have lighting loads 452 00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:38,119 on it, and then you'll have cord and plug connected stuff on it. 453 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,960 Then you might need to be looking at the permissible load requirements and just be 454 00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:46,280 careful and make sure you're not exceeding that. Other than that, I don't 455 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,320 see the hazard anywhere, and I don't see the concern. Again, as 456 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,559 long as your g S I protected, and you don't remember, folks, 457 00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:57,400 we've done this. We've been doing this forever, right. What about that 458 00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:04,400 bathroom that has a a hot tub, well, not a hot tub, 459 00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:07,159 hydro massage bathtub. Okay, it's got a blower motor down underneath it, 460 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:10,440 I typically doesn't have heating it. It's the hot water. It's just a 461 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,639 blower. Well, we run a circuit to that all the time in the 462 00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:21,559 bathroom. That's fine. Right, So again, this is kind of one 463 00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,079 of those things that if you want to pop off of the lighting and hit 464 00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:27,960 that receptacle, and that receptacle is not one of the ones that are serving 465 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,320 the countertop, as long as it's GFC I protected, I don't see a 466 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,000 problem. You could run a separate ranch circuit to it if you want it. 467 00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:37,960 Fifteen AM twenty amp doesn't matter. I don't see a problem with that 468 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:42,960 either. So again, hopefully that answers your question. I think what you're 469 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,599 doing is perfectly fine. Others may agree to disagree, but I think it's 470 00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:51,239 it's perfectly fine. Those receptacles you're adding are not within three feet of the 471 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,159 basin. They're not serving a countertop or a workspace. So I mean, 472 00:36:53,199 --> 00:36:57,679 I'm perfectly fine, and you're protecting it with GFCI. I don't see a 473 00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:01,559 problem with it though. Okay, so we'll do one more question. I 474 00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:04,960 don't want to get it too long today on this episode, but we'll do 475 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,960 one more question. Let's see here. Okay, I think I've already answered 476 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,039 this question via email to the individual, but I'm going to do it here 477 00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:16,280 for everybody else's edification. Here, says I go by a blank, blank 478 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,320 blank on TikTok. Hey don't want to give his name out. We'd like 479 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,440 to keep it anonymous here so you don't have to worry about you asking questions 480 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,679 and anybody's saying who you are, because that really doesn't matter, it says. 481 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,760 So what I was getting at is Tesla Chargers has a lot of people 482 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,880 getting confused with Article two forty dot four B. With people who are installing 483 00:37:39,159 --> 00:37:45,719 nm cable on Tesla Chargers. They're using Article two forty dot four B to 484 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:52,719 supersede three thirty four dot eighty says, I know what the particular I know 485 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,400 what the particular article. You have three conditions that you have to meet, 486 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,400 and he's talking about the three conditions in two forty dot four B that you 487 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,400 have to meet this. I think the problem comes in as two forty dot 488 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:08,239 four B doesn't directly tell you you can't do something in regards to the rating 489 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:15,920 of the conductor. For me, I use THHN or MC so I can't 490 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:21,440 so I can take advantage of the seventy five degree CE chart. I was 491 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,960 hoping that maybe you could do a video on this to clarify because I keep 492 00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:30,599 running into people that really know what they're doing, but they get hung up 493 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:35,039 on two forty dot four B. Thank you for your time, sincerely blank 494 00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:37,360 blank blank, Okay, I think I have done a video on this over 495 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,960 on TikTok for those that follow us over on TikTok, it's at master the 496 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,360 NEEC. That's the same ticker I use on all my social media platforms, 497 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,559 with the exception of LinkedIn, which is just my name, Paul Abernathy. 498 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,239 And if you're on LinkedIn, I'd love to connect with you. That's the 499 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:59,320 business preferred platform. So let me kind of answer this question. I'm want 500 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,119 to make sure that I get it right here for folks, So you know, 501 00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:06,559 two forty dot four B is about the overcurrent protected device and not about 502 00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:09,199 the opacity of a conductor. That's first and foremost. Okay, So this 503 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:15,440 is what allows me is if you have a conductor's opacity and it doesn't correspond 504 00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:20,199 if you're protecting it to an overcurrent device, two forty dot four B with 505 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,719 three conditions allows you to go up the next standard size overcurrent device, right, 506 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,920 I mean, that's we're all familiar with that. It doesn't change the 507 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:34,400 fact that you have opacity limitations on the actual conductor itself. Okay. So 508 00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:37,320 for example, NMB, which is an ometallic sheet cable to dash B just 509 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,519 lets you know that the installation of the conductor's inside rated ninety, but you 510 00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:45,599 can only use the ninety for adjustment and corrective purposes. At the end of 511 00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:47,400 the day, you can never exceed that of the sixty And this is what 512 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:52,159 it tells you in three thirty four dot eighty. There's nothing in two forty 513 00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:55,559 dot four B that can circumvent that. Right, as far as the ampacity 514 00:39:55,679 --> 00:40:00,119 is concerned, it can exceed that of the sixty degree. Not the fact 515 00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:05,039 that you can go to the next standard size overcurrent device because the code permits 516 00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:09,840 it. It would still protect that conductor as long as your load does not 517 00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:15,400 exceed the rating of the conductor. Okay, what is the capacity of that 518 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,000 specific conductor? Right, So, for example, non metallic sheet cable NNB 519 00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:23,920 is rated fifty five amps for a six to awg copper under the sixty YEARY 520 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:30,000 column, and that's all the conductor can handle fifty five ams. So just 521 00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:34,199 for the fact that I can go to the next standard size because a fifty 522 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:39,679 five amp over current protective device doesn't exist in two forty six A, that's 523 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:45,639 irrelevant. I don't have a problem going up to a sixty it's still going 524 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:52,320 to protect right a conductor. The problem is the conductor is only rated for 525 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,280 fifty five ams, and that becomes a problem. And let me show you 526 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,280 why when you're dealing with a Tesla charger. Now, I know there'sople out 527 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,480 there to say, well, I can just turn my Tesla back, I 528 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,639 can cut it back. But again, we're not talking about load calculations for 529 00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:08,559 feeders in service, right, We're talking about the branch circuit. And I 530 00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:14,880 think what six twenty five dictates to us is that we brand circuits are sized 531 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,199 as continuous loads, not the fact that we can have ems systems, energy 532 00:41:19,199 --> 00:41:22,920 management systems or whatever that can circumvent this. I don't see where we get 533 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,760 any break for that, And people will argue that I just don't see where 534 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,159 we get a break for that. I need to size that brand circuit as 535 00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:34,559 a continuous load, right, all right, So when you look at it, 536 00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:39,239 typical name plate on a Tesla again, and I'm not a Tesla installer, 537 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:44,599 so bear with me. I'm going off of the research that I've done. 538 00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:49,159 So the name plate is forty eight amps, which is treated as a 539 00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:54,360 continuous load per Article six twenty five. Okay, Now, if you have 540 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,519 a name plate that's forty eight amps, you take it at one hundred and 541 00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:01,000 twenty five percent because it is a continue us load. And since we're sizing 542 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,480 a brand circuit, we have to remember that two ten nineteen A one is 543 00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:10,639 going to say with continuous loads for brand circuit, the minimum size conductor is 544 00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:14,599 one hundred and twenty five percent of the continuous load one hundred percent of the 545 00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:17,400 non continuous load. Well, the only load we have here is forty eight 546 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,320 amps is a continuous load, because that's what it says we have to do 547 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,880 under Article six twenty five. Okay, So we did that, we do 548 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:30,639 forty eight amps at one hundred and twenty five percent. That is sixty amps. 549 00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:37,960 So my minimum size conductor opacity has to be sixty amps, and a 550 00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:42,519 six non metallic SHEF cable is only good for fifty five amps. Even though 551 00:42:42,559 --> 00:42:49,199 I could put it on a sixty amp breaker, my load cannot exceed that 552 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,559 of fifty five amps, or again can't exceed that of the sixty degree column. 553 00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:00,000 So I have to have a conductor under the sixty degree column that can 554 00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:04,000 handle sixty ams. And that's what it tells me in two ten nineteen A 555 00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:10,079 one. So since the load is sixty ams and the conductor has to be 556 00:43:10,199 --> 00:43:15,760 at least sixty ams, the six awg copper NM cable is only good for 557 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:22,239 fifty five that's not gonna work. Okay, Now the load is fifty five 558 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:27,400 amps. Could it be on a sixty amp overcurrent device? Absolutely, again, 559 00:43:27,679 --> 00:43:37,159 as long as my load does not exceed that of fifty five amps under 560 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:43,639 column under the sixty year ee column. Okay, So hopefully that that makes 561 00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:47,760 sense. I can't really make it any bigger picture for folks. I mean, 562 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,159 we can look at what it says the limitations in two forty four B. 563 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,559 But what I want you to realize that's in two forty right, So 564 00:43:54,639 --> 00:44:00,800 that's dealing with overcurrent protective devices. We still have the opacities we have to 565 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:07,079 worry about, and a fifty five amp rated conductor can be protected by sixty 566 00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:13,079 amp overcurrent protected device because a fifty five amp is not a standard size under 567 00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:15,760 two forty six A, and all those rules allow me to go to the 568 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:24,320 next standard size. Okay, hopefully that makes sense to everybody, because again 569 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:30,679 there's folks out there that still may get that may get that confused, and 570 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,840 we want to make sure that folks don't get confused. Right, Okay, 571 00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:38,800 so let's see here. I think I got time for one more that came 572 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:44,599 in, So let's see if we can get this one. Let's see here. 573 00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:50,559 Hey, Paul, love your podcast. I'm a pool installer here in 574 00:44:50,639 --> 00:44:53,639 Texas, and now that we're out of the twenty twenty three edition of the 575 00:44:53,719 --> 00:45:00,880 National Electrical Code, I have a question. We install a lot of above 576 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:07,599 ground swimming pools that are considered permanently installed. In reading the definitions in the 577 00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:12,280 twenty twenty three edition of the National Electrical Code. As I go through my 578 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:21,480 code update training. I notice something peculiar in the definition of permanently installed swimming 579 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:27,519 pools. Can you clarify this for me? I notice that the definition of 580 00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:35,239 a permanently installed swimming pool no longer includes swimming pools that are installed above ground. 581 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:43,119 Can you clarify? Thanks in advance again, love the podcast. Okay, 582 00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:45,679 that's it. I won't read it. The last party just says his 583 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,800 name. Okay, great question. And this is kind of really ironic because 584 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:57,039 I've been talking about this and I was just recently on a code panel what 585 00:45:57,079 --> 00:46:01,239 we call a task group, and this was actually brought up in the task 586 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:09,000 group by Ryan Jackson. And I didn't think to submit this change. I 587 00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:15,239 noticed it back when we did it on seventeen And I don't know what happened, 588 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,800 how it got how what. I don't know what happened. I don't 589 00:46:20,199 --> 00:46:25,320 know what took place. But here's the deal. In the twenty twenty edition 590 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,079 of the NEEC, when it came to this definition, we had a threshold 591 00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:34,599 of a water depth forty two inches that was, you know, kind of 592 00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:38,360 kind of critical in determining whether something was a permanently installed pool or not. 593 00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:43,199 And we had all this and we and we got rid of all this stuff 594 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:52,519 to you know, try to make it easier. So under the definitions, 595 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,079 if you go back and you look, and I will, I'll go read 596 00:46:55,119 --> 00:47:00,280 you real quick what happened in the twenty twenty you'll get an idea of what 597 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:08,639 happened here and again it happens, and it just happens. So permanently installed 598 00:47:08,639 --> 00:47:13,800 swimming pools, and of course it's waiting immersion and therapeutic pools. In the 599 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:19,559 twenty twenty edition it says this says those that are constructed in the ground or 600 00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:24,679 partially in the ground, and all others capable of holding water in a depth 601 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:30,440 greater than forty two inches, and all pools installed inside of a building, 602 00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:35,079 regardless of the water death, whether or not served by electrical circuits of any 603 00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:37,079 nature. So it doesn't matter whether the pool has power to it or not. 604 00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:39,639 You're still going to go anywhere. In the code that talks about permanently 605 00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:44,440 installed pools and things like eco potential bonding, it doesn't matter whether there's power 606 00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:45,559 or not. You still have to have your equotential bonding. You have to 607 00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:50,199 do all that. So the power is irrelevant, okay, because you could 608 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,880 have power running in the ground from other sources that could leak into the pool, 609 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,800 So it's irrelevant whether there's power there to follow that type of rule. 610 00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,559 But the question here is is it covered pools that are in the ground, 611 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,920 pools that are partially in the around, and it basically covered all other pools 612 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,360 that were a depth of greater than forty two inches, So it covered everything. 613 00:48:15,679 --> 00:48:17,559 Now, the one thing we didn't cover in this one was the fact 614 00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:22,199 that the building the pools inside of a building are considered permanent. But what 615 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:27,000 about if it's on a building, it wasn't in it. Let's say it 616 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,719 was on the roof. So that's something we're going to be correcting for the 617 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,920 twenty twenty sixth edition, by the way. But I just want to show 618 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,840 you what happened. Okay, in in all fairness and all you know, 619 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,840 transparency, we knew about the problem, but Ryan bought it up at a 620 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,840 meeting, and a bunch of other people bought it up too, But it 621 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,039 did really get inadvertently removed. And this is what's going to make it difficult 622 00:48:49,079 --> 00:48:52,719 for you folks under the twenty twenty three to be able to see how you're 623 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:58,800 going to It leaves you in a weird position. Okay. So now let's 624 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,119 go back and read what it said under the twenty twenty three edition and you'll 625 00:49:02,119 --> 00:49:07,199 see what I'm talking about. Now, remember all definitions are now moved to 626 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,719 article one hundred, okay, so you no longer have to go to six 627 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,960 eighty dot two or anywhere like that to look for a definition. They're all 628 00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:17,480 now in article one hundred under the twenty twenty three makes sense, and so 629 00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:23,480 that's where you're going to find permanently installed swimming pools. Okay. It's going 630 00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:28,599 to be under a pool because that's the first word, just search first. 631 00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:32,639 So it's going to be permanently installed. Okay. So now let me read 632 00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:36,320 you what it says and see if you can't pick up the problem. And 633 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:37,719 I am going to answer your question, but I want you to hear the 634 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:45,360 problem permanently in a pool permanently installed swimming waiting, immersion and therapeutic, okay, 635 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,159 which is permanently installed swimming waiting, immersion therapeutic. Okay. So that's 636 00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:52,360 what we're talking about. Here's the definition, because it's important. Why do 637 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,079 I need to know what's a permanent pool? Because there's other parts of six 638 00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:59,800 point eighty that make statements about what you have to do if it's a p 639 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,159 installed pool, right, even with the echo, potential bonding and all this 640 00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:07,400 stuff. So it's important we have to determine whether something's a permanently installed swimming 641 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,199 pool or not, so to listen to the code change. And this is 642 00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:16,320 going to address the individual's concern says what is a permanently installed swimming pool. 643 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:22,480 It is those that are constructed or installed in the ground or partially in the 644 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:27,159 ground, and all other pools installed inside of a building, whether or not 645 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:32,719 served by electrical circuits of any nature. Do you hear what's missing? Well. 646 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:37,760 In the twenty twenty we covered all other pools which could be above ground 647 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,239 pool as long as the depth of the water exceeded forty two inches. But 648 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:49,800 now we don't cover above ground pools anywhere when they're considered permanent because we don't. 649 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,639 We only say those that are in the ground, those that are partially 650 00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:54,639 in the ground, and those that are installed inside of a building. So 651 00:50:54,719 --> 00:51:00,719 inadvertently it was left out. So we have nothing in the twenty twenty three 652 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:06,760 that describes a permanently installed swimming pool that would be above ground. And there's 653 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,760 plenty of them that clearly are permanent. Okay, they're not storable, they're 654 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:19,079 permanent. So that's important because the rules that are in the area where we 655 00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:23,400 talk about storable pools are slightly different than those for permanently installed pools, and 656 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:31,280 now any above ground pool that is not considered permanent installed. The only way 657 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:37,159 that we can enforce this is to look at the storable pools, because it 658 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:42,400 says pools installed entirely on or above the ground that are intended to be stored. 659 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,519 But these are not to be stored. So we're in a codundrum here 660 00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:51,880 if you're in the twenty twenty three edition. So it probably should have some 661 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,360 kind of because Texas and many people are going to be on the twenty twenty 662 00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,039 three for a while, it should probably be some kind of emergency nature to 663 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:04,239 take place to make sure we at least get this fixed. And it might 664 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,079 be for all I know, Ryan might have submitted it, somebody else might 665 00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:09,679 have submitted it. I got had too much on my plate. I forgot 666 00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:14,440 about it, I really did. I remember talking about it and laughing about 667 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,960 something that happened. And I'm on this code panel. I'm not the principal, 668 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,880 Okay, I'm not the principal, I'm an ultimate, but hey, 669 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,119 I'm gonna take full responsibility. We massaged this and tried to get rid of 670 00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:30,159 that forty two inch thing, but inadvertently left out above ground pools, and 671 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,159 so it's going to be fixed in the twenty twenty six. I can promise 672 00:52:34,199 --> 00:52:37,000 you that, as well as the fact that it could be on a building 673 00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:40,880 like the roof and not apply to this permanently installed as well. So that's 674 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,079 going to be fixed as well, because if it's not in the building, 675 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,440 then it's not covered. So this answers your question. You're in the twenty 676 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:52,800 twenty three you have, I would say your local AGEJA should adopt something in 677 00:52:52,840 --> 00:53:00,920 writing that says that above ground pools are also covered under permanently installed swimming pools 678 00:53:01,159 --> 00:53:07,800 if they're not considered storable, and then most of them won't be. They're 679 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,639 all framed up and everything, and there's a lot of those pools in Texas. 680 00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:14,599 So that's the reason I and we have to know whether or not we 681 00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:17,599 have certain rules that apply. So I would encourage any jurisdiction out there to 682 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:23,039 come up. This is an example where I am a proponent for a local 683 00:53:23,039 --> 00:53:28,159 amendment. Right, people say I hate those, but this is where there's 684 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,880 oversight, not changing the code, but just adding additional direction because of an 685 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:39,119 oversight. Because you folks need to know how to deal with a above ground 686 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,559 permanently installed means it's bolted together, it's not going anywhere, it's just not 687 00:53:44,679 --> 00:53:46,840 in the ground or personally in the ground. Right, But it is a 688 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:52,119 permanently installed swimming pool. And I need to make sure that all the requirements 689 00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:55,719 of part two of six point eighty are going to apply, not part three, 690 00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:01,960 Part two. So I encourage this if Ryan or whoever ever listens to 691 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,480 the podcast, and I could do it myself, we need to submit something 692 00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:15,320 to get this at least in place in the twenty twenty three as TIA or 693 00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:20,559 something in order to make sure that we can address above ground swimming pools. 694 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,719 Okay, all right, hopefully that answered your question. You are in a 695 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:27,639 condundrum and the only answer I can is to get local ruling from you HJ 696 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,599 and get clarification. If you're an installer out there that do above ground pools, 697 00:54:32,159 --> 00:54:36,280 just do me a favor. Treat it like a primly installed swimming pool 698 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,239 and follow all the rules in Part one and part two of six p't eighty 699 00:54:39,159 --> 00:54:44,199 even because of the oversight here, you don't treat it as a storable pool, 700 00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:47,760 okay, all right, unless it is truly a storable pool. All 701 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,400 right. That's it. Folks, wanted to keep it under an hour. 702 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,960 Hopefully you got something out of that three pretty good questions, and hopefully I 703 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,679 gave you the best thenfo I could give you. Until next time, folks, 704 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,639 stay safe, blas us. And again you can always go to Paul 705 00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:05,920 Abernathy dot com and submit your questions. I'm more than happy to answer them. 706 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:30,599 Until next time, Stay safe as