WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.599 Of people say blasphemy has been termed the unforgivable sin. So according to Mark, 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:10.039 chapter three, verse twenty nine, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit 3 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:15.599 will never be forgiven, but it's guilty of an internal sin. So like 4 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:19.760 I can think of like a dozen worse things than blasphemy, and I bet 5 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:24.800 you can too. And apparently God can forgive abusers, murderers, slave owners, 6 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:28.920 thieves, and anyone else, but he draws the line at blasphemers. 7 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:32.240 So I think that's stupid. Maybe you do too. But if this makes 8 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:35.439 sense to you, please call into the show because it is starting right now. 9 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:45.479 Hello, everybody, welcome to TALKI that it is Sunday, August twenty 10 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:49.840 two, twenty three. I am your host today objectively Dan, and joining 11 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:54.600 me in the co pilot's seat this time is Richard. Richard, what's happening? 12 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.320 Very good. I'm very excited it's to do this again with you done 13 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.600 after last week. We had a great great last week. I thought last 14 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:06.120 week was pretty fun, and I'm excited for round two. So bear with 15 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:07.640 us, folks, because I'm going to tell you about what this show is 16 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.599 all about. It's talk either, it's a product of the Atheist Community of 17 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.879 Austin, a five O one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of 18 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:19.439 atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government. 19 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.079 And if this is your first time watching, you should know Talk Even 20 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.959 is a live call in show. It happens every week and we have live 21 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.840 lines, so you can get your calls in right now at five one two 22 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:33.000 nine nine one nine two four two, or you can call it through your 23 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:38.840 computer at tiny don cc slash call t H and we have open lines right 24 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:41.719 now, so you should definitely get your calls in so we can actually, 25 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:44.359 you know, make this a real call in show, because otherwise it's just 26 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:46.640 going to be me and Richard talking for like an hour and a half, 27 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.480 which I guess we could do, but like kind of, I don't know, 28 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:52.760 that's not what people people expect from this, So get your calls in 29 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.280 before we do get to any calls. So we have our talk Heathen to 30 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.480 Me segment Richard. Last week we ask you you are in hell and who 31 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:05.120 is your roommate. I was excited to see what the answers of this one 32 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.120 would be, and I think there's some pretty good ones here. So let's 33 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:12.479 read our top three answers from last week. Number three is from mister Colby 34 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:15.520 the Second, who says, my roommate is Eddie van Halen and turn it 35 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.840 up to eleven would be ten times better than listening to hymns all day and 36 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:22.800 night and have it, which is true. I mean like it seems like 37 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.520 all the cool people do go to Hell. I don't know you agree with 38 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:29.479 that, Richard? Do you think that's? Yeah? I think more interested 39 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:31.439 in having Steve VII though, because he didn't think it's our work for the 40 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:36.639 filmed Crossroad, which was all about the devil someone selling the soul to the 41 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:39.520 devil to become a great guitar player. So I'd personally choose Steve over Eddie 42 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.360 van Halen. But great, yes, you know you always make deals with 43 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.560 the devil. Can we make deals with God? Is that a thing too? 44 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.759 I don't know. Is there some sort of exchange that could be made? 45 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.599 I don't know. That's for theologians to decide. But number two comes 46 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:58.080 from Diana Bender, who says I am in Hell and my roommate is Mother 47 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:01.400 Terisa. Oh, that would be really bad to have Mother Teresa as a 48 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:06.919 room she'd probably be very like, she'd probably just like a curse you out 49 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.599 if you did anything that she didn't like, you know, she'd probably be 50 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:12.039 really mad at stuff. I don't know. It probably wouldn't be a fun 51 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.280 time. Yeah, especially if you will ill should just encourage it to embraration. 52 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:17.000 So for involved with than giving you a medicine, that's a good point. 53 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.960 If she saw you burning, she's like, oh, you just need 54 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.479 to embrace it. It's like a good thing. And I would be like, 55 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:25.240 no, that's not true. I need a taile at all. At 56 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.680 least if I'm burning, probably do more, but at least That Number one 57 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.639 comment though, comes from rc Blazer, who says, nobody tell God, 58 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:38.159 but I am definitely afraid of Audrey hepburn my roommate. And now it's like 59 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:44.080 really great, Like, oh no, not Audrey Hepper and anybody but her, 60 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.560 Like, yeah, that's that's pretty funny. Uh yeah, but yeah, 61 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:52.319 those are some great answers. Thank you guys so much for commenting on 62 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:57.680 our segment. This week's prompt is going to be headline a Bible story using 63 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.400 Florida. Man, I'm gonna be honest, this may be like one of 64 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.159 the top five best prompts we've done. We need really good answers from you 65 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:10.680 guys. Okay, so headline a story using Florida Man in your comment this 66 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.719 week, and we might read it out for next week and pick the top 67 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:21.800 three answers. Do you have a good headline for this prompt? Florida in 68 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:29.800 Exodus would be I just had this image of God and Moses doing all the 69 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:33.560 hard work freeing everybody from slavery, getting them out of Egypt, getting to 70 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:36.319 the border of Egypt, and Florida man just say no, We're going to 71 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.399 build a wall, like you can't come in. You've got to stay Egypt 72 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.279 and remain slaves. Well, yeah, I think, yeah, it's something 73 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.720 I was thinking, like maybe the story of Samson or something like Florida Man 74 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:54.720 breaks down local buildings after after hair growth or something something like that. But 75 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.680 yeah, I want to hear your guys comments on that, so let us 76 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.120 know what you think. And hey, Richard, guess what, Well, 77 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.360 go on, I have a new toy I've been playing with here. I 78 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:10.800 got a little men listen listen, listen, listen listen. I don't know 79 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:13.000 how much I'm gonna be able to use it today, but I have been 80 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.240 playing with this little voice modifier thing and it is pretty funny. I'm not 81 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.160 gonna do the sound effects because it sound effects I'm not sure about, like 82 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.279 how the copyright stuff works here, but I may pull out some of these 83 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:26.879 other voice things, like peck this out here? What's this book? If 84 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:31.160 I'm follow the narrator? What if I did the whole builment a little little 85 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:34.000 little choppie there? Maybe it's it's work in progress. I gotta I gotta 86 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:38.160 fix on this thing. But in the future you may see more of this. 87 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:41.680 I'm experimenting with some of these. Maybe maybe this one will work. 88 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.920 It's like a helium one. Oo. There we go. This is what 89 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:46.800 I could do, like the whole stuff, not really though that'd be really 90 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.240 annoying anyway. So yeah, I got some voice stuff. If you guys 91 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:55.680 have ideas for voices I could do, maybe I'll I'll invest in using this 92 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.240 in the future. But hey, it's time to get to some calls, 93 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:00.800 Richard. You're ready to talk to some people always, all right, let's 94 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:06.439 let's do it. We have our first call here coming from Cass who's calling 95 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:11.160 in from Canada Cast. You are live on Talk Heathen what's going on? 96 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:15.040 Hey, nothing much. How are you guys doing? How could we help 97 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:17.839 you? Yeah, I guess I just kind of wanted to talk about the 98 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:23.399 topic of like death and the idea of afterlife, just because I mean, 99 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:27.560 this is something I've been thinking about my whole life, growing up very religious, 100 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:33.120 and especially the past few months since my mom passed away, and it's 101 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:39.560 just it's just like it's a great idea to think about an afterlife, you 102 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.680 know, but it's also just not something I have enough evidence to believe in. 103 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:46.920 But yeah, I'm just kind of curious about what you guys think about 104 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:51.120 it, and like kind of where you guys come from from an atheist standpoint. 105 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.439 Yeah, Richard, do you want to take this one first? Yeah? 106 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:56.439 Kind of. First of all, I'm sorry for your loss. I 107 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.920 myself have lost both of my pavans and all of my grandparents, So yeah, 108 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:08.319 I've been been through the kind of the death thing a little bit myself 109 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:12.720 as well. I've never been religious, so I never had that kind of 110 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:18.800 perspective of coming out of religion or kind of having that that difference of opinion 111 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:24.639 between being a religious person and believing in an afterlife and not being a religious 112 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:29.920 person and not been believing in it, but still having those kind of remnants 113 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:34.560 of belief to it. So it's it's interesting for me the kind of the 114 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:41.319 perspective from that angle from me personally, I've never believed in an afterlife. 115 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:46.800 I've I've studied religion from lots of different cultures. There are lots of different 116 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:51.560 lots of different beliefs about the afterlife, and lots of different ways of dealing 117 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:59.160 with both and afterlife and the kind of death itself depends, and some of 118 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.279 them are entire climate related, which I think is really really interesting. You 119 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:07.360 know, you know, how you dispose of bodies in the him a layer 120 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.560 where you're high upen and everything's frozen, you can't bury bodies up there is 121 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.439 entirely different to how you would do it in a kind of temperate climate, 122 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.040 and that all plays in to kind of belief about the afterlife as well. 123 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:26.759 There's lots of there's lots of ways of looking at it. I would For 124 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.839 me personally, it's it's it's interesting to look at it kind of academically, 125 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:37.559 but there's an emotional aspect to it as well, And I'm interested in your 126 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.399 kind of uh. When you said you don't have evidence for it. Because 127 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:48.559 this kind of suggested to me that this this internal struggle going on where you've 128 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:54.039 got a remnant of belief and although you're kind of understand from the kind of 129 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.639 from the logical point of view that there's no good reason to believe it, 130 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.360 that you might still be clinging to a little bit of your former belief about 131 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.360 an afterlife. Is that correct? Absolutely? I feel like you really like 132 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:15.919 nail nail whatever they're termite nail on the head, And I think in such 133 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:20.039 situations it's, you know, we could we could talk about we could talk 134 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.519 about, well, there's no good reason to believe it till the cows come 135 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:26.960 home, and it will make no difference. You know. It's you know, 136 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.919 you're you're still going to be in a process of grieving and you've got 137 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.879 to kind of work through that, and it's going to be a personal thing. 138 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.679 I think, you know, the reason I suggested these different cultures and 139 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:46.399 things is for me, the kind of the best kind of suggestion I've got 140 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.679 for you, because you're still clinging to a particular view, from a particular 141 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:52.960 tradition on an afterlife, is go and kind of have a look at all 142 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:58.639 the different afterlives. So rather than trying to tell yourself, you know, 143 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.360 well it makes no sense to believe in an afterlife because there's no evidence stright, 144 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.320 just go and look at how many different kinds of beliefs there are about 145 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:11.240 afterlives, and I think that will kind of that will internally give you an 146 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:16.120 understanding rather than trying to reason your way out of it, which doesn't always 147 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.360 work, especially when you've got a huge emotional kind of baggage to go with 148 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.360 that. Rather than trying to reason your way out of it, just kind 149 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.360 of look at all the different ideas there are about it across the board, 150 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.120 and I think that will be more helpful than somebody's saying to you, well, 151 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.320 you've just got to think your way out of it, because you know 152 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.679 it doesn't make sense to believe in it. Dan, No, I think 153 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.039 what you're saying is true. So I was a former Christian. I've been 154 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:43.360 a nonbeliever for over half a decade now, I don't know how long. 155 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.240 It's been a little over half a decade. So I think, Cass, 156 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.720 if most of us were honest with ourselves, especially those of us who were 157 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:54.919 former Christians, we recognize that a lot of people. One of the reasons 158 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:58.399 why they believe is because they think some philosophical proposition is true, or they 159 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:03.919 think, oh, this historical evidence or the scientific evidence is really great and 160 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:05.799 pointing towards a cod belief. They want to believe in an afterlife, Like 161 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.679 I think an afterlife is a core part of it. And that's not just 162 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.480 for Christians, by the way, that's for most of human history, right, 163 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:16.000 Like how many religions talk about what happens after death, right, I 164 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.919 think it's most of them, not all of them, certainly, but there's 165 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.360 a lot of them that do. And that's because there is something about the 166 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.440 human psychology that wants to keep going right and wants to be able to see 167 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:28.759 our loved ones after they pass. It says, oh, well they're they're 168 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.879 okay, they're just in a different place than they are now. But the 169 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.799 truth is, as of course you recognize, is that our consciousness is probably 170 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.720 toward like tied towards our physical beings, right, and so when our physical 171 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.639 self expires, so does everything else about us. And that's a really hard 172 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.399 pill to swallow. It's a pill that most people don't want to swallow. 173 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.360 So we kind of suppressed that a little bit, and the fact that you're 174 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.679 having this sort of dissonance even though like you don't believe in a bunch of 175 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.399 other stuff, points to how hard it is to dissuade yourself of this kind 176 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:03.120 of belief. It really is sort of a psychological phenomenon. But it's also 177 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.399 a thing that you just have to deal with like everybody else, right, 178 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.399 Like we all kind of have to grieve, We all kind of have to 179 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:11.559 go through with this. In my opinion, though, it's more honest to 180 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:13.320 be able to say, well, this person was with us now and now 181 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:18.240 isn't and we can move on with our lives and recognize the impact that they've 182 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.919 had in our lives. It makes our relationships with people, in my opinion, 183 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:24.600 even more meaningful, because if I say, oh, well, i 184 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.399 know my grandmother's sick right now, but I'm not going to visit her. 185 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.399 I'm just gonna wait till the afterlife comes and maybe I'll see her then. 186 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:33.200 I mean, that's a very extreme example, but we do kind of not 187 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:37.440 take as much stock into human life in that regard. I mean, there's 188 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:39.399 a lot of people that do really think, well, there's the bad things 189 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.919 happening now, but people are going to a better place. It is, 190 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.440 how like awful things like war are justified in some people's minds. So in 191 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.519 one sense it's terrible because we don't get to see the people that we love 192 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.080 anymore. But in another sense, it does give us a sense of beauty 193 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.879 because it lets us know that the relationships and impacts that people had in our 194 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:03.639 lives, we're real and we're lost, and I think it's that loss that 195 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.240 sometimes gives us the value that they had in the first place. I don't 196 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.159 know, just a perspective, but there's a million answers to this question, 197 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.919 and the only one that's going to work for you is the one that works 198 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.960 for you, and that's something you got to figure out for yourself. But 199 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.360 hopefully that's helpful. Cast what do you think, Yeah, yeah, for 200 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.159 sure, for sure. I think it's just it's kind of like the hard 201 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.360 part for me is that it's almost like I'm still kind of holding on too 202 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.120 like a little bit of hope that there's an afterlife, Like I'm okay with 203 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.759 like the idea that like, you die and that's it, like there's nothing 204 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:39.879 else. I'm okay with that idea, but there's still that just like that 205 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.399 little piece of me that's just like, well, I guess it would be 206 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.960 a nice thing if there was something after, like something that we cannot imagine 207 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.039 or we don't know, you know, it's just kind of like the idea 208 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:56.879 of it. It's still kind of like nice to think about. And it's 209 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.720 just it's it's hard because it's like is that helpful for me? Or is 210 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.960 that making it worse? Like is it easier for me to just throw out 211 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.639 every hope and just move on as if you know, there's nothing that's going 212 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.919 to happen after or is it helpful for me to at least hold on to 213 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.159 some hope because maybe that'll give me some motivation or happiness. Like, I 214 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.279 don't know where to kind of like draw that line, because obviously, like 215 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.879 how you guys said too, like some people who are really religious, they 216 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.080 kind of like they believe so much in an afterlife that they don't, you 217 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.919 know, live this life to the fullest because they just think, Okay, 218 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.840 I'll see you in the next life and whatever. So it's like I don't 219 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.159 want to live that way, but I also kind of it's almost like I 220 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:46.639 like the hope that, you know, maybe there is something more to the 221 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:48.720 life that we're living now. But I'll yeah, I also just don't want 222 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.960 to completely not live the life I have now at the same time, So 223 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.840 it's kind of just like drawing a ballet. Ye. The fact that you're 224 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.399 cognizant of that, I think is a good sign, right, because it's 225 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.480 like you under stand that, Yeah, that's an excuse people use not to 226 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:05.120 like take care of their own health, right. I've definitely heard that from 227 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.399 people. They just say, well, it doesn't matter, this life is 228 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.480 temporary, right, you understand that. That's bs. You understand that said 229 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.559 something people say to make themselves feel better. That's that's good. I think 230 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.639 that's that's the healthiest place you can be. If if if they thought that 231 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.360 an afterlife at least gives you some kind of peace or at least maybe the 232 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.159 fact that I mean, because like we don't know honestly, right, Like 233 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:28.919 we don't know they're they're very much could be. I think it's very unlikely. 234 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.360 But that's one of those questions where it's like, yeah, I just 235 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.200 don't think it's true, but I can never possibly one hundred percent know for 236 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.720 sure. I just wouldn't know what that would mean. I guess where I'm 237 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.759 getting at here is a loose kind of belief like that is going to be 238 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.600 way less problematic than one that's sort of stitched into a hierarchy of other beliefs. 239 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.000 And what I'm really talking about here is Christianity, right, because I'm 240 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.639 assuming you come from a Christian background, right, that Christians sort of yeah, 241 00:15:54.039 --> 00:16:00.759 yeah, yeah, right, yeah, kind of costal. Yeah, 242 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:04.960 there's a whole lot of implications that come with like that Christian sort of understanding 243 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.759 of the afterlife. And I don't think that's where your brain is at, 244 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.279 right. And I'm just anticipating the comment section here because I don't want them 245 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.639 to be like, oh, you shouldn't tell people to believe in delusions. 246 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.679 I'm not. It's natural to think that there could be an afterlife. I 247 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.240 say it's natural because billions of people believe it, Like there's that's just the 248 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.639 thing that's part of humanity. Whether or not we can control that, or 249 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.000 whether or not we find it convincing, that's going to be up to people's 250 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:30.639 psychology, people's understanding of evidence, people's understanding of philosophy, people's understanding of 251 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:36.240 life. So I say, if it's helpful for you, and it's not 252 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:37.639 going to be a bother in any other sense of your life. Yeah, 253 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:44.879 I have hope, but I also strongly suggest what you already do understanding and 254 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.559 have it being cognizant of the fact that this probably is the only life we 255 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.919 have, and so the relationships you have with people and the things for yourself, 256 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.000 like you should be building and investing it for yourself in right, Like, 257 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:57.639 you shouldn't just be like, oh, well, I'm just going to 258 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:02.480 donate all of my life to doing this thing for other people because I can't. 259 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:04.640 You know that I'll get treasures in heaven if I do this, right, 260 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.599 Like, that's that's not going to be helpful for you. But if 261 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.160 you say, hey, I'm gonna give my time for people because I want 262 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.480 to help other people out, it makes me feel good. And also I 263 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:15.839 think that's one of the best things a human being can do. I mean, 264 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.000 that's just that's doing the same thing but with a different perspective. Right. 265 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.559 It really is about that perspective, Like how healthy of a perspective that 266 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:27.160 is. And I think what you're describing sounds natural and totally fine. Honestly, 267 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.279 I don't know what do you think, Richard? Yeah, yeah, 268 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.400 I agree, And I think I just want to say a couple of things 269 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.920 on the kind of hope thing. First of all, I would I would 270 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:41.359 absolutely love there to be a place where I could be really united with, 271 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.240 you know, my loved one so paston. I think it would be a 272 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.599 brilliant you know, I kind of hope that's the case as well, without 273 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.799 having any I've never been really justus, I've ever never held that belief, 274 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.480 but it's it is a nice idea, and you know, if, if, 275 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.559 if you can use that as a and I think that as well, 276 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.160 even though I've never believed in it, I still, you know, I 277 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.519 can think about it and say to myself, that would be a really really 278 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.359 great thing. Without having any belief that it is true or that it will 279 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:17.039 happen whatsoever, you can still use it as a tool to kind of help 280 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.680 you, you know, face this emotional stress you're going through. I still 281 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.559 think about that. You know, my father died eleven years ago, and 282 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.440 I still think about that. My mom's died at the start of last year, 283 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.960 and I still think, wouldn't it be nice if there was a place 284 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:37.480 where we could be together again with the full kind of acceptance that there isn't, 285 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.279 and I think it's as Dan said, it's a perfectly natural thing to 286 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:48.440 do. I think it's also worth kind of noting that religions have and do 287 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:56.000 exploit this hope tremendously. And you know, I think there's not our con 288 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.359 speak for all of them. I'm not saying that they're all like utterly dishonest, 289 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:02.559 because I don't think they are all utterly dishonest. But there are certain 290 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.799 some religions and certainly some kind of schools of religion, certain churches, certain 291 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:12.720 preachers, certain pastors that will exploit this and use this to take advantage of 292 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:18.720 people. And being aware that, you know, this is a natural thing 293 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.920 that people go through, and be aware that people do use this as an 294 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:30.960 exploitative tool, and I think that's very important just to keep in the back 295 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.400 of your mind as well. But yeah, man, on the same absolutely, 296 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:34.720 on the same page as done with this. You know, it's it's 297 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.240 it's a natural part of the grieving process, and there is no harm in 298 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:42.200 it. There is no harm in having those thoughts. Wouldn't it be nice 299 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.440 if I could be with my loved ones again? Yeah? Yeah, I 300 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.599 think I think that's all we have to say on this case. Hopefully that 301 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.519 was helpful. Any other comments before we let you go? No, No, 302 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.920 that was very helpful. It's it's helpful to you know, talk about 303 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.519 it with like mind people. I just I've had this fear that, you 304 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.119 know, if I think this way, like, can I am I like 305 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:10.480 progressing in like logical thinking? Or am I like being held back by like 306 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:15.160 this fundamental belief that like I've been taught my whole life. So it's it's 307 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.480 helpful to know that like you guys too, as atheists and logical thinkers like 308 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.119 also you know, have a hope because it would be nice, you know, 309 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:29.319 Cass, you have my permission to be irrational on this belief. Okay, 310 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:33.440 here I have granted you high authority from the atheist atheist community of Austin 311 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.160 on high and I've said, yes, you're allowed to have this because you're 312 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.559 a human being and you deserve dignity and respect and to be able to grieve 313 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.720 for your loved ones. Yea, So if that's what you're looking for, 314 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.920 I'll give that to you. Thank you, Thank you, thanks guys. 315 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.200 Yeah, of course, very helpful. Of course, of course, thank 316 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.519 you for calling in, Cass. What a nice call I'm, of course 317 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:59.319 circumstances not being nice, but just like I like this perspective of, hey, 318 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.279 I am. I think of myself as a logical thinker and I want 319 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.799 to think logically about this. Is it okay that I'm not thinking logically about 320 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.960 this? Like, I think it's brilliant. I think I think there's so 321 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.839 many people kind of in our community who try and try and kind of make 322 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.279 vulcans out of themselves and disassociate themselves from emotion, and you can't do that. 323 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:23.440 We are emotional creatures and we can understand logic and we can understand kind 324 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:29.640 of skepticism in practice, but we are still emotional and we've still got that 325 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.400 aspect of ourselves to deal with. And it's great to keep aside on ourselves. 326 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.839 As well as talking to other people about skepticism, we need to view 327 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.720 it internally as well. This is a problem that the atheist community faces at 328 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.400 large. They really do think of a lot of people as like vulcans, 329 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:48.960 and this idea of like, oh am, I allowed to be irrational about 330 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.799 this, Like it's almost like there's going to be consequences if you aren't. 331 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.400 And beliefs are important, right, I'm not saying like, beliefs don't have 332 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.880 consequences. They certainly do. But there's nothing about at least from what cast 333 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.200 is describing about their situation and saying, oh, this is going to lead 334 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:07.880 to something that's problematic. Right, They're not saying, Oh, I think 335 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.519 there might be hope for heaven, so I'm going to donate all my money 336 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:14.480 to this psychic who can tell me about talking to me talking to my mother 337 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.839 through psychic phenomenon and stuffing. Yeah, it's it's nothing like that. It's 338 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:19.240 more just like, I hope I get to see this person again. And 339 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.079 if that's the extent of it, Yeah, why why would I take that 340 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:25.440 away from somebody? Why? Because I think I'm better than them, and 341 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.960 I think, oh no, actually, you're never going to see this person 342 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.519 again. I mean, how shitty is that? Right? That's there's no 343 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:34.200 reason for that, So I don't think it in itself. It's an illogical 344 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:40.039 viewpoint anyway. Having the whole you're not saying you think it's actually going to 345 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.640 happen. Yeah, You've just you just want to see someone you love and 346 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:47.519 know's had a great amount of importance in your life again. That I think 347 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.559 that's absolutely acceptable. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Let's go ahead and 348 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:53.480 take some other calls. But before we do, just a reminder, this 349 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:57.839 Saturday, Next Saturday, this Saturday. I've had a debate with people about 350 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:02.960 whether you can say next Saturday if it's the upcoming Saturday or if it's the 351 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.799 Saturday after, and it's stupid. But anyway, August twenty six, specifically, 352 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.119 what I mean this year is the back cruise. If you guys are 353 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.079 tired of hearing us announce announce it, don't worry. It's gonna happen really 354 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.200 soon. So tickets have sold out, but there is a chance you can 355 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.119 still join us if you join the waitlist, So sign up for that in 356 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.079 case there are cancelations, and join the latelist at TI dot cc slashbackers, 357 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:29.519 And hey, if you bought tickets and you can't come, please go ahead 358 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:32.680 and cancel so that somebody else can come, because there's a lot of people 359 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:34.640 on the list already and we want to make sure as many people can come 360 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.839 as they can. So if you know, hey, I got these tickets 361 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:40.079 and I can't actually go, please go ahead and cancel. There's a lot 362 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:41.319 of people that don't do that. And then they end up. You know, 363 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.839 there's now as many people that can come, So if you do have 364 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.200 your tickets, look forward to going on the boat and also enjoying conversations with 365 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:52.400 all the other folks that are gonna be there, Forest Valkai, j, 366 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.759 Mike, Christy Powell and lots of other hosts from other shows. So check 367 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.160 it out. One more thing as well, just as we're talking about supporting 368 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.519 the ACA, Hey, we've got a shirt this month. It is a 369 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:10.680 Satan the lesser of two evils on there, which is you know, very 370 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:12.240 edgy. If you're into that, you can get that and of course all 371 00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:17.319 the other Talk Heathen merch at tiny dot cc slash merch aca right now, 372 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:21.519 I of course have to remind you please like, subscribe and enable notifications if 373 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:25.240 you like this show, and you should become a member by clicking the joint 374 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:27.920 button below the video. You get custom chat emotes and you help perpetuate the 375 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:32.400 mission that we're perpetuate. It's always hard perpetuate the mission of the Talk Heathen 376 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:36.000 community and the atheist community of Austin. One more thing, one more thing. 377 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:40.039 If you send a super chat today you can have it be read out 378 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.039 loud, whether it's a question or a comment, We're going to read as 379 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:45.440 many as we can, and the crew is gonna let us know when you 380 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.359 send that in. So if we don't answer it within like two minutes, 381 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:51.640 don't worry. We will get to it before the end of the show. 382 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:53.599 And we will read all super chat that gets sent to us, as long 383 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.960 as their YouTube appropriate. And that's it. That's all I got. Let's 384 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:02.880 go ahead and move on to our next caller. Let's see, let's talk 385 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:07.000 to Tim. Tim who's calling in from Washington. Tim, you're live on 386 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.519 talk Ethan. What's up, hey, Dave? And how are you? 387 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:14.160 I'm doing great? Tim, How are you doing? I'm doing very well. 388 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.079 Hey. You know it's the weekend. Well it's the end of the 389 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:21.559 weekend for me. But anyway, Yeah, so I wanted to talk about 390 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.599 nihilism a little bit, if that's okay, and it's sort of related, 391 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.519 I guess to the last call. Everybody's asking permission today? Yeah, live 392 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:36.359 your life, state, folks. Yeah, absolutely talk about nihilism. My 393 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:41.799 boyfriend and I were out yesterday and we were talking and this subject came up, 394 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.880 and and I thought, I was I have been thinking about this for 395 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:53.079 several months. Nihilism isn't necessarily a negative philosophy. It's not about, oh 396 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:57.359 my god, there's nothing, there's nothing to this whole thing and we're all 397 00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:03.279 just kind of we're all just kind of existing or anything like that. You 398 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:08.079 know, it's it's sort of it's sort of all about you get to live 399 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:14.640 your life, period, and it really goes to show the type of person 400 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.839 you are if if you're a good person and you believe that after death there 401 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:25.480 is nothing, and you really believe that there is no heaven nor hell, 402 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:32.279 or you really believe that that we aren't put here for a specific reason because 403 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:40.519 God, Odin raw any of these gods have just placed us here. We 404 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:47.880 are simply here because we happen to exist on a planet that was perfect for 405 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:52.680 us to evolve into what we are. And it really shows what kind of 406 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:57.119 a person you are if you believe that there is nothing in the future, 407 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:03.720 nothing after death, and you're still a good person and you're not being forced 408 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.759 to be a good person because the tank commandments are telling you to be sure. 409 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:14.200 Sure. Yeah, Nihilism is complicated because it's been interpreted by different people 410 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.559 to mean different things. Right, So like nihilism. First of all, 411 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.319 there's different kinds of nihilism you can talk about, like metaphysical nihilism or like 412 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.000 myriological nihilism. But most people when they're talking about nihilism, they're talking about 413 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:30.400 what's been described by philosopher Freed Nietzschi, who says, who talks about nihilism 414 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.839 in several of his books, But it's not a prescriptive sort of ideology really, 415 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.960 it's more a description of the times Nietzchi was was worried. He was 416 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:45.079 worried about the post Christian world. Basically, he's the one you've you ever 417 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.400 heard like God is dead and we have killed him. That's that's Friedrich Nietzi. 418 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:49.920 He said that, And basically he's like, look, what are we 419 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:56.240 going to do about living in this world that has no sense of objective values? 420 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.519 Right where everybody is kidding coming up with zoe meaning and he is actually 421 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.480 very power positive in his affirmation. He says, look, we have to 422 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:04.759 make meaning for ourselves. I mean, there's a lot of people that misinterpret 423 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.599 his work because they just heard about it and they're like, oh, he's 424 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.640 saying everything is all meaningless. He's like, yes, but he's not saying 425 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.640 that's it. He's saying and so because of that, human beings have to 426 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.359 kind of do things right. And of course other writers have talked about this 427 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.799 too. Niche's like the guy that people talk about with this and yeah, 428 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.920 like like people who are very serious about the concept of existential nihilism, this 429 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.880 idea that nothing matters, they're they're the first ones to say, yeah, 430 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.920 we have to like kind of come up with our own stuff here. And 431 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.359 that's been interpreted in different ways. Albert Kamu talks about, you know, 432 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:40.680 the myth of Sisyphus coming up with absurdism, and then and Jack Garrett and 433 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.480 all these other folks and the rest of the twentieth century like kind of talk 434 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.759 about this. But anybody who's never actually read any of that stuff is just 435 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.960 like, oh, yeah, all these atheists they say that, you know, 436 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.920 there's just no meaning to life and we just gotta all die. What's 437 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.880 the point of live in Like, that's just really not what any of them 438 00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.480 have to say about it. And it's a little more complicated, but you're 439 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.319 right, there are more positive interpretations of it that are out there. Richard, 440 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:08.240 what you got, Yeah, I'm not really looked into nihilism nehilism, 441 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.559 however you want to say it very much. I think I wrote an essay 442 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:18.000 about it on Nietzsche and is kind of is the way that in Buddhism influenced 443 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:26.559 his philosophy, and now people misunderstood Buddhism at the time that he was around 444 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.400 and kind of saw that as a nihilistic philosophy, which it isn't. And 445 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:34.440 you know, I kind of did an essay about that a while ago. 446 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.200 But you know, it's not other than that, it's not actually something I've 447 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:44.359 looked much into. I think we get in this community, we get it 448 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.119 thrown as a lot by Christians and other religious people who kind of say, 449 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.559 well, if you don't have something to believe in, you're obviously believing nothing, 450 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.920 therefore you're nehilist. And I don't. I just simply don't think that's 451 00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.279 the case. And I don't think there's a there's a definite difference from me 452 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:06.839 between skepticism and nihilism. And you know, yeah, that's important to point 453 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.160 out. Well, other than that, I've really not much to contribute with. 454 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:14.799 Yeah, but what you're saying is important because even if there isn't an 455 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.640 objective reason for living, an objective value, an objective ray. I mean, 456 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:21.680 so what right, that's not stopping people from living? I don't. 457 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:23.640 I don't live. I didn't like like the things that I liked when I 458 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.160 was five because they were objectively good. I liked them because I just thought 459 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.799 they were cool, right, And it's the same thing for everything I like 460 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.440 today. I'm just more grown about it and I like to have more complicated 461 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.759 reasons. But I don't know. It's like, you like what you like, 462 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.039 and most of us are pretty pragmatic about it. So a lot of 463 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:42.920 the things we like are pragmatic and happy to help us. But that doesn't 464 00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:47.799 mean that they're objective. Just because they're they appear to be universal, it's 465 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:51.400 a guarantee a lot of people what a lot of people thinking universal values really 466 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.720 aren't right. But anyway, Tim, what you had sound like yet more 467 00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:59.319 to say, Well, I was. I was also telling him yesterday when 468 00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:06.880 we were talking that when when I was a Mormon and a fundamentalist Penteconstal Christian 469 00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:11.680 and all of that, I was so afraid of death. I was so 470 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:18.839 afraid of fucking my life up somehow doing something wrong. That God is going 471 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:25.880 to send me to hell because I would miss step. And with nihilism or 472 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:33.000 the nihilistic thinking of not really having to look toward an actual afterlife just no 473 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.799 longer existing after this body fails, I'm no longer really afraid of death. 474 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:45.839 I'm no longer really afraid to live my life and make mistakes along the way. 475 00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:52.119 And and you know, and yet I can also be such an incredible 476 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.920 person because I'm not told I have to be an incredible person. I can 477 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:05.839 be this incredible person just because that's the humane thing to do. It's you 478 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:10.519 know, it's not it's not it's not, I guess, a superior thing. 479 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:15.519 It is just a humane thing to be a good person. And and 480 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:22.759 that's what I love about kind of thinking about That's what I love about nihilism, 481 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:28.400 or at least my idea of what nihilism is, because it's I don't 482 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.720 have to live by any set standard. I just have to live by decent 483 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:38.799 human thought and you know, making sure that I am being the best person 484 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:45.279 I can. However that may look. Yeah, you know, hundred percent 485 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:47.240 to totally agree with you. Yeah, it's again, it's one of those 486 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:52.480 things where some people they look at that and they don't find empowerment at all, 487 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:54.039 and they think it's defeating. I definitely thought that when I was a 488 00:32:54.119 --> 00:33:00.359 Christian, and then I realized, well, Christianity and also be interpreted in 489 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:05.000 extremely nihlest ways if you just have the right language for it, if you 490 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.960 have the right mindset for it. Look at what God wants for us. 491 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:12.240 We are master. God is our master, and we're essentially his puppets, 492 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.039 uh, And we just have to follow the will of God. And if 493 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.480 we refuse to follow the will of God, we are rejected and we are 494 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.000 sent to Hell, and we are to burn for eternity for expressing the free 495 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.319 will that He gave us. What exactly is positive about that message in that 496 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.000 light? You know, there's there's there's lots of ways that yeah. Yeah, 497 00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:35.039 So so if we're talking purely in terms of positive and negative worldviews, 498 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:38.920 right, you can easily construe the Christian worldview to be extremely negative. And 499 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:45.160 yeah, can nihilism be interpreted in a negative way and still be legitimate to 500 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:49.359 it? Like fundamental sort of interpretations? Like, yeah, I think you 501 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.359 can, But you can also be interpreted in a positive way. I mean, 502 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:54.559 really, that's kind of the whole point it's like it's it's really up 503 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:59.400 to what philosophers have made of it and what and how to solve the human 504 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.000 condition, right, I mean, that's that's really what it comes down to, 505 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:06.240 especially in a world that is probably going to be slowly rejecting Christianity over 506 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:10.800 time, or at least reinterpreting it to fit more modern secular reventions. So 507 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:14.679 anyway, Yeah, that's all I got, Richard anything. Actually, Now, 508 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:15.840 the other thing, we just need to get rid of this kind of 509 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:22.000 idea that nihilism is people walking around going whoa is mee? Everything is worthless 510 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.920 because it's just simply not the case. It's a very navel of every marginal 511 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.599 last view of what days. Yeah, i'derstand tell me anything else before we 512 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:35.039 let you go. No, I think that's all. I want to die. 513 00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:37.599 Just like I said, I was talking with my boyfriend yesterday and was 514 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:43.360 thinking, oh crap, I want to talk about this to somebody who actually 515 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.760 will understand what I'm saying. And you not only understood it, but you 516 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:51.239 actually explained a couple of things to me that I didn't know. So that's 517 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.559 cool. Oh yeah, well yeah, yeah, I mean I think if 518 00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:57.360 you want to read the books. I can't remember if it's the Gay Science 519 00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.519 where he talks about it, or if it's thus spoke zare through stuff, 520 00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:04.679 but he talks about it, and honestly, Arthur Schopenharer and stuff talks about 521 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.079 it before. But like Nietzsche's kind of the guy if you want to talk 522 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.800 about this stuff in depth, he's he's, he's, he's very interesting on 523 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.920 that. But Tim thinks again for calling in and always appreciate it. When 524 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.239 you do call in, it is always lovely talking to you and a good 525 00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:25.639 conversation. And nihilism is probably one of the most most misunderstood and misinterpreted ideas 526 00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:29.880 and philosophy. Uh, maybe more than anything else. I really can't think 527 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.880 of anything else that's more misinterpreted, can you. I mean, it's it's 528 00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:37.679 really just don't know. Yeah, everybody that's yeah, I guess that's that's 529 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.840 fair. Everybody just has their own ideas of what nihilism is. And it's 530 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:45.199 complicated like it's one thing. Like many things of philosophy, it doesn't have 531 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:51.000 just one definition, but it's also like going to have various, much more 532 00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:53.920 thought out ideas than what you might imagine if you actually take the time to 533 00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:59.119 read stuff, but most people don't know. Yeah, it is what it 534 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.119 is. But hey, well philosophy people is impotant. Yeah, and I'm 535 00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:06.519 by the way, I don't have a philosophy degree or anything. I'm just 536 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.000 I'm just a late person. So I could be one hundred percent wrong, 537 00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:13.239 and some philosophy PhD is gonna be like, hey, my degree is in 538 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:15.360 philosophy, and you explained it far better than I could have said. Well, 539 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:19.239 there you go. I just I just you know, you can figure 540 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.000 this stuff out by Google searches. Honestly, I mean, it doesn't take 541 00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:24.119 it's not that hard, but it is for some people. But hey, 542 00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:30.599 I have to move on here and talk about the Patreon as we have kind 543 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:35.440 of mentioned some ideas on supporting us to Patreon is one of them, and 544 00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:37.960 we will be reading those top five patrons at the turn of the hour. 545 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:42.960 We also have a channel that houses all of the shows of the ACA in 546 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:47.039 audio podcast form. I almost had audio podcast form, which sounds kind of 547 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:52.280 cool. That sounds like a rap album that I would buy audio podcast form. 548 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.559 You can visit tight out, cc slash ae N podcasts for that. 549 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:59.199 You can also become a part of the talk Heath and community in our fan 550 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:04.719 run facebook page at that tying at cc slash fbt HG and if you do 551 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.719 join that, please don't be a dick. There's a lot of people that 552 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.239 join and post nasty things, and all the hosts are kind of looking. 553 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.239 We're always seeing what you got to say. All right, you guys said 554 00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.920 some some some funny things on there. Sometimes I will say that. And 555 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.039 lastly here before I move on, if you didn't know, Park Heathen does 556 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:27.599 have a TikTok and does go live before the show's on Sunday, Richard just 557 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.880 went live today, so go subscribe and joined the pre show on the Tonk 558 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:35.719 Heathen TikTok. Richard, how was that today? It was great. We 559 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.000 had a we had we had what we sometimes get and it's not always a 560 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:43.440 case. We sometimes get people who will put them money where their mouth is. 561 00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:46.079 But today we had a lot of people who were making a lot of 562 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:50.800 claims and when asked to call in, was it not not going to do 563 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.719 that? No, it's one thing to write something, to make a statement 564 00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:00.280 in a comment section. It's an entirely different thing to have a conversation about 565 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:04.320 it. And so I've said this many many times if you were if you're 566 00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:07.199 going to just make a statement and you're not willing to have a conversation, 567 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:13.199 this tells me that you're not convinced that the statement you're making you actually have 568 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:19.519 evidence fall you know, Come meet me in the ring, boy, come 569 00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.039 come in, come at me. Richard's starting fights on ticktock over here, 570 00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:27.199 and keep that energy, Richard. That's good. No, no, no, 571 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.760 I know what you mean. Though. It's like pople you can say 572 00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:32.119 whatever you want in a common section anywhere. It's just like, yeah, 573 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.960 but why not have a conversation about it? If you truly believe that's something, 574 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.159 you think it's true, right, right? Why not defend that? 575 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.159 I don't know. That's what I think is interesting about some people. But 576 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.400 hey, remember last week whenever we had a conversation about vegans, remember that, 577 00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:50.280 Richard. Okay, Well, we have another caller who wants to talk 578 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.840 in the in the same loop here, So maybe this will be a sequel 579 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.440 to our conversation last week, maybe part two, maybe not. Though. 580 00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.960 This is Julie who's calling in from New Mexico. Julie, what did you 581 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.800 want to talk to us about today? I wanted to talk about and how 582 00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:08.840 veganism can actually like reduce overall violence in the world. M okay, yeah, 583 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:12.760 tell me more. And well, just like you know, if people 584 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:17.079 people accept the violence against animals in order to eat them, and I just 585 00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:23.599 think that if we stop normalizing the killing of animals, then it would eventually 586 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:29.519 lead to less violence within humans. Yeah, I mean I like that. 587 00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:31.079 And first of all, as you know, I am, I'm a vegan. 588 00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:36.360 I'm sympathetic to the being well viewed. Right, So I'm I'm pro 589 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:40.639 what you say in the sense that human's tendencies towards animals, right, how 590 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:44.519 they view animals can be reflective of how they view other people. Right. 591 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.199 Mohammed Gond talked about like this concept. Right, He was like, look, 592 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.280 if you want to see if a nation is civilized, see how they 593 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.400 treat their animals. Right, I'm paraphrasing. He didn't exactly stand right that, 594 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.320 but this was the same idea, right, It's this idea of like, 595 00:39:55.320 --> 00:40:00.239 look, we know that animals are quote unquote lesser beings than us in 596 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:02.239 some way, right, maybe they don't have the same rational capacities, maybe 597 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:07.719 they don't have the same intellectual or abilities. Otherwise, so how we treat 598 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:12.840 them. How we treat the lesser of animals can be reflective of how we 599 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.159 treat the lessers of people, or what we consider lessers within human populations. 600 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:21.760 Right. Obviously the idea of like seeing somebody, Yeah, yeah, and 601 00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.519 the idea of seeing somebody as a lesser is of course problematic with it itself. 602 00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.440 But how many times has that happened in human history? Right? How 603 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:32.079 many times have people had this concept and and has done terrible things. So 604 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:36.199 so, in principle, I think you're right. Now. That being said, 605 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:38.760 I have met other vegans and seeing other vegans who are just as violent 606 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:44.199 in other ways, maybe just verbally. Maybe they're not killing animals, but 607 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.519 you know what I mean, it's it can vary a little bit, So 608 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.960 I think, you know, I think the idea is nice. I think 609 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.719 I like it in principle. Does it work in practice? I'm not sure, 610 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.079 but yeah, I do. I do agree though, right, I 611 00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.280 mean, as a as a whole, If the world was more vegan, 612 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:04.880 ostensibly we would be a less violent world because animals would not be on the 613 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.239 receiving end of violence, or at least it would be scaled down to a 614 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:12.639 significant degree. Right, there would still occur obviously, exactly. Yeah, 615 00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:15.400 yeah, it just kind of reduced the thought of violence then sure, sure, 616 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.880 yeah, And we do have very violent tendencies for ex animals. Yeah, 617 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.400 yeah, there are violent cultural tendencies. I do agree with that, 618 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:25.480 Richard, What do you think? Yeah, I think this is an interesting 619 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:30.360 one. I overall agree that, you know, you know, reducing violence 620 00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.760 across the board is a good idea. I'm not sure how. I think 621 00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:38.639 it's a nice idea that if we if everyone became vegan, it would reduce 622 00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:46.119 violence between human to human violence. I'm not sure it works in practicality. 623 00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:49.920 Yeah, yeah, if a look at I mean, the the idea that 624 00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:54.840 that touched on from Mahatma Gandhi, who who was a vegan is and the 625 00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:59.719 kind of the thing that that that non violence in that tradition is called a 626 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:05.000 him and it's also held in Tibetan Buddhism. Now, in Tibetan Buddhism, 627 00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:10.239 it could be argued that there is less violence than in the tradition that Mahatma 628 00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:15.000 Gandhi comes from. However, because of where they live and the practical aspects 629 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:19.519 of that, a lot of Tibetan Buddhists do eat meat. Yeah, so 630 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.039 it's I think I think if we're taking kind of a case study, look 631 00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:29.760 at it with people who followed the same kind of idea of hymns of non 632 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:37.519 violence, and both come from traditions which are at least promote vegetarianism. I 633 00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:43.480 don't think that bears out with there is a lot of violence in some Hindu 634 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:49.920 cultures where the practice especially it's a more vegetarianism is a phenomenon you could, 635 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:53.079 Sorry to interrupt you, Richard, Yeah, this is a phenomenon ostensible you 636 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:57.320 should be able to measure in some capacity. Right, Are the most vegan 637 00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.880 societies so less violent? Can you track that in a metro kind of way 638 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:05.760 like I would think of, Okay, well there's no one vegan vegetarian societies, 639 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:07.519 but there's certainly more than others. I'm thinking maybe India, you know, 640 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:14.679 maybe other Southeastern Asian nations probably do that more. Are they more or 641 00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.599 less violent? It also depends on how you define violence as well. The 642 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:24.760 only thing I know for certain that can level out structural violence is the alleviation 643 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:29.599 of poverty. From from my understanding, I'm not sure if a veganism has 644 00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:31.800 that same effect that would be interesting to study, though probably really hard to 645 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:35.880 do. I don't know, but yeah, a lot of a lot of 646 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.440 interesting thoughts here. Sorry I interrupted you there, Rich, But no, 647 00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.639 no, I think I don't agree, and I agree with you entirely on 648 00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:44.880 the poverty front as well. Yeah, I just for me, because I 649 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:47.119 don't know if one's being done. I'll have to look into it. But 650 00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:52.679 I would love to see a study on hymns as a concept and the different 651 00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:58.800 cultures and places that practice it. Look, you know, whether they are 652 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.239 largely vegetarian or egan, whether they are largely meet eaters, and look at 653 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.159 corresponding kind of crime figures. I suppose is the only way you could do 654 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.159 it. Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's a very hard 655 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:13.920 thing to do. It's a very hard thing to collert that data and to 656 00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:19.480 decide where outside factors are coming in and where they're not. Certainly an interesting 657 00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.840 concept, Yeah, and I think it's definitely a watch this Space idea. 658 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:27.280 It's a very good idea. I think to kind of look into that further. 659 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.639 Really, any other thoughts, Yeah, no, No, that's a 660 00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:32.960 he made a really good point about data and stuff like that. I didn't 661 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:37.880 even think about that I was just thinking about the violence in general exist people. 662 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.199 So yeah, I know that's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, 663 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:45.199 I mean I again, I agree with you from a philosophical perspective, right, 664 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.800 Juliet, which is like, yeah, I want to alleviate violence against 665 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.719 animals and right, so I think that if you're going to be vegan, 666 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:54.519 you're going to be less violent, but like you may be less violent in 667 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:58.880 that one category, it may mean that you struggle with violence in other ways, 668 00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.280 you know what I mean, Like, I don't know, I also 669 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.840 other other vegans. Yeah. Another think to point out, too, Julie, 670 00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.000 is that I assume you're the same in my position where you're a vegan 671 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:14.079 for philosophical reasons, but not everybody who's vegan is vegan for philosophical reasons. 672 00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:16.599 Some of them are vegan because for health reasons. Some of them are vegan 673 00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.719 for you know, other kinds of things, and so they may still have 674 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.800 this kind of maybe problematic view towards animals, are problematic view towards other people 675 00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:30.440 that doesn't get solved because that they're vegan. It's just because oh I'm vegan 676 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:34.800 because I want to look fit and have this nutritional thing also I think people 677 00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:37.920 of other races are inferior to me or something right like that could still happen 678 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:43.760 that there's nothing that says that that's not coherent or inconsistent unfortunately. So yeah, 679 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:45.840 something to think about there. But I like your call, Julie. 680 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:49.639 It was it was a good call. Good call, Richard or Julie, 681 00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:51.719 any of the thoughts. No, I agree. I think it was a 682 00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.840 good call. It was a great, great question and certainly one I think 683 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:59.800 I think if this was a scientific paper, it would have a section that 684 00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:04.480 they and set called discussion where you kind of talk about how you can take 685 00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:07.000 it further and take the idea further and look at it into more detail. 686 00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:13.639 Definitely a good call. Definitely an interesting subject to kind of that needs further 687 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.039 development and looking at I like it. I like it. We do have 688 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:20.760 some other calls psychology of people, you know what I mean, just their 689 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.760 mindset. Yeah, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it very 690 00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:27.960 much. Thank you so much, Julie. Have a great rest of your 691 00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:30.639 day. And now we have more calls in the queue that I want to 692 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.880 talk about veganism. So I knew, you know, we started the firestorm 693 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:40.159 here today great cord and yeah, it's happening. So we will talk more 694 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:43.119 about it in just a second, but before we do, there's a super 695 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.360 chat we gotta read. It's from Ben nine, which is a great name. 696 00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:49.239 I don't know if it's a Ben ten reference and you're just Ben nine 697 00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:51.840 or of just Ben nine is like a different thing, or like G nine, 698 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:54.039 maybe like Be nine. I just like it Ben nine, who gave 699 00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:59.800 ten dollars, He says a twelve step programs are definitely our Christian movement, 700 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.800 and it can be difficult to get off merry go round, but it's possible 701 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:09.239 to experience sobriety without a h key. And I think you know, I 702 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:14.320 don't have any personal experience with those kinds of programs. I only know from 703 00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:16.639 people who have talked about this kinds of stuff, and I know that there 704 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:22.760 are twelve step programs in general are problematic because they're motivated by religious institutions a 705 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:28.639 lot of times and don't maybe maybe don't display the same efficacy as other kinds 706 00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:30.960 of programs. Maybe you could speak to this more, Richard, but I 707 00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:36.199 can only know what I've been told about it. Yeah, I've not experienced 708 00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:38.599 them personally from what I know about them. They are very much you know, 709 00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:45.320 higher power motivated, and certain ones, the famous ones, let's not 710 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:51.280 advertise them that the famous ones are very much Christian higher power motivated. Yeah, 711 00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:54.559 you know, it's it's a shame that we have to go down that 712 00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:59.679 route of having some kind of deity or supernatural element in it, because you 713 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:04.079 could called you know, you could call motivation a higher power in that context 714 00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:08.719 and have different things to motivate you that in that aspect. Yeah, and 715 00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:13.119 I think you know, whether that's well whatever. Lots of examples, if 716 00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:15.440 you've got children, you know, seeing your children and providing a good life 717 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.679 for your children again could be considered a higher power. So I don't know 718 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:23.039 why we have to elevate it to some kind of supernatural element. You know. 719 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:29.440 Motivation comes in many, many different forms. Yeah. Daryl Ray spoke 720 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:32.639 to me about this actually on Truth Wanted a few weeks back. Who and 721 00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:37.079 he makes the case that a lot of twelve step programs just kind of offer 722 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:43.440 themselves to local communities as sometimes even just for free, in order to sort 723 00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:47.239 of be in compliance with some regulatory laws in the United States about you know, 724 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:54.000 offers and programs offered to people in prison populations and and other sorts of 725 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.119 things like that. So there is a case to be made that a lot 726 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:01.280 of these programs exist and the reason why they're so popular isn't because they're good. 727 00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:06.320 It's just because it's like a cheap option basically for people to take uh 728 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:08.719 and doesn't actually have to do with their efficacy. Unfortunately. This is the 729 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:12.800 case that Dye rams and who knows much more about the subec and I do. 730 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.320 So you should check out that episode of Yeah where he talks about it 731 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:19.360 more if you're interested. But hey, there's some more folks who want to 732 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.639 talk to us now, Richard, and let's go ahead and talk to them 733 00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:25.239 now. I'll talk to about more announcement stuff later, since we've just gotten 734 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:30.159 to a super cat there. Yeah, let's let's let's keep going on the 735 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:32.920 let's keep going on this I just because there's a couple of people that want 736 00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:35.960 to talk to us about it, we are going to keep talking about. 737 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.440 Brandon's calling in from Florida. They have a question for you, Richard, 738 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.840 Brandon, you're live on talk Ethan. What's up? Tell you how you 739 00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:45.280 doing? Thanks for having me, guys, I really appreciate you having me 740 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:47.760 in a show any time for us. You're you're here to question Richard, 741 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:51.360 Right, what do you got? Yeah? So, I actually run the 742 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:55.719 official veganism channel of YouTube and tom athis just like you guys. And as 743 00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:01.119 I've been exploring this path of trying to convert people to veganism, I've noticed 744 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:08.239 definitely a parallel between believers and meat eaters. Whereas people kind of they have 745 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:12.320 like an excuse as to, let's say, why they eat animals, and 746 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.079 as soon as I disassemble that excuse, then they're kind of trying to come 747 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:19.119 up with their next excuse. As soon as I dismantle that excuse, they're 748 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:21.920 trying to come up with their next excuse. Because I'm finding like it's somebody 749 00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:23.960 that, for whatever reason, they want to do it, if they want 750 00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:28.719 to harm cute, defenseless little creatures, even though like you could get all 751 00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.760 the same case pleasure from plants. They're it's health here and nobody has to 752 00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:36.159 die. So now that I've kind of noticed that parallel kind of brings me 753 00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:38.159 to everybody that I was an atheist. I'm really puzzled because I feel like 754 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:43.400 there's a certain level of hypocrisy there where it's somebody's an atheist and they want 755 00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:46.440 somebody else to question their beliefs and their reality and look at what's the you 756 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.800 know, the morally correct thing to do and Whatnot's a question how could somebody 757 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:55.880 understand all of this and still shooes to harm animals unnecessarily? Basically, my 758 00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:00.679 course, between atheism and skepticism another difference between two. That's just saying, 759 00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:05.599 yeah, do you know the difference between atheism and skepticism. I mean I 760 00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:07.039 talked to one of the same, I say, I mean atheists, they're 761 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:13.960 out of the same there there isn't a God. No atheism is as an 762 00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:16.159 answer to a single question, and it's about the belief in God. That's 763 00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:20.280 a skepticism is about. I don't know about that, Richard. I mean 764 00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.559 there's people who call themselves skeptics about lots of things. I don't know if 765 00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:27.119 they has just got not atheism, I said, not skepticism. Oh sorry, 766 00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:30.280 I thought you said skepticism. No atheism is an answer to a single 767 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:36.519 question. Skepticism is applying kind of skepticism to across the board, not just 768 00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:40.079 to the God question. I noticed in your introduction there, so when you 769 00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:45.800 were talking about trying to convenient to kind of convince people that they should be 770 00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:51.079 vegan. You did a lot of things I wouldn't call skeptical. You're poisoned 771 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:55.679 the wealth a little bit by calling animals you argued from emotion by calling animals 772 00:51:55.679 --> 00:52:00.440 cute. You're poisoned the well a little bit by forgot what you did. 773 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.760 But you did poison the world. Got the specific example. Now if you 774 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.880 did it, if you want to kind of repeat the argument, and I'll 775 00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:12.639 try and pick it up again, okay, because I's just wondering why you're 776 00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:23.239 not vegans. Yeah, hey, Brandon, if you are on speaker, 777 00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:27.000 we need you to go ahead and change that. I'm gonna mute you real 778 00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:30.199 quick while you fix that, because I think your audio just just pooped out 779 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:34.039 there. Sorry, I was interrupting there and also playing. I feel like 780 00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:36.519 I have to play Devil's Advocate with you, Richard when we when we have 781 00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:43.480 these cars last week, I think while we're waiting for Brandon to fix that, 782 00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:47.239 I'll tell you this. I think you can make You can make comparisons 783 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:52.159 to meat eaters and religious people, but you can also make comparisons to vegans 784 00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:55.639 and religious people. You can make comparisons religious people like anything. I understand 785 00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:00.159 why that is an analogy that could be used. And and I and I 786 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:06.119 have had frustrating conversations with people who are advocately anti vegan, like who are 787 00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:09.039 are adamantly anti vegan? Right? Who? Who? Really? Uh reject 788 00:53:09.079 --> 00:53:13.320 that? And yeah, I could definitely make some comparisons there. But in 789 00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:15.719 this context, it can be a little it can be a little slippery, 790 00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:19.320 can be a little I don't know, Richard, I don't know why, 791 00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.599 why, fully what? What? What stances you have? I do know 792 00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:24.159 that you at least, hello, you're talking to me about it, but 793 00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:27.840 also you're willing to talk to always about it. So I will grant you 794 00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:30.440 that, Okay, Like that's that's that's the thing most people will not do. 795 00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:35.360 But I am. I am curious to see, uh if we could 796 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:37.440 get to the heart of that a little bit more. Let's see if Brandon's 797 00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:40.599 audio is a little bit better. Brandon, I'm unuting you now, if 798 00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:43.760 you could talk for a second, Let's see if we can hear you better. 799 00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.280 Hey, sorry about that? How are you there? Got you? 800 00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:49.760 Now? Go ahead? Where did you guys lose me? What was the 801 00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:52.679 last thing you heard me say? Pretty much? Lost yet everything honestly, 802 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:54.679 if you want to start over, okay, Okay, So I was saying 803 00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:59.599 that for me, if I see, like a wasp, what I would 804 00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:05.800 consider a not cute living being precally a wasp on my porch, I would 805 00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:08.639 go out there and save its life because as an atheist, I'm under the 806 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.760 you know, understanding that everybody, whether you're an aunt, a wasp, 807 00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:15.320 or cow, pig or chicken, everyone only gets one life as far as 808 00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:20.000 we know. So how can I rob that being of its one and only 809 00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:22.679 life for my own selfish reasons? Like even if you told me, being 810 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:25.800 a shadow of a doubt, that I would live a shorter life being vegan, 811 00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.159 I would still choose to do this just because I feel it's some moratally 812 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.519 correct thing to do. How can I, you know, for all the 813 00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:36.719 things that would arrive somebody to be atheists, they have to be humble, 814 00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:38.760 they have to you know, really look at themselves and be brave and say 815 00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:42.559 they may not know everything, or them have to accept certain things that are 816 00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.400 uncomfortable. So I feel like if somebody is willing to go through all all 817 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:51.960 of those mental barriers and arrive at that conclusion that those same same level of 818 00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:54.599 reasoning would draw them to be vegan as well. So I'm curious, Richard, 819 00:54:54.639 --> 00:55:00.159 like, why why aren't you vegan? I'm not vegan because I don't 820 00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:06.320 see any moral imperative too being vegan. Regarding the example of harming wasps, 821 00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:08.159 I would also go and save the life of a wasping you know what, 822 00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:12.440 I'd also go and save the life of if I saw it in distress and 823 00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.880 peril. Is a cow or a pig or a chicken, I would if 824 00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:19.119 I saw a cow wrapped up in barbed wire, I wouldn't say I am 825 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.079 a meat eater. I eat meat, I eat beef especially, So I 826 00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:27.679 am going to go and I'm going to let that die because I don't care 827 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.519 about the well being of that individual creature. I wouldn't do that. I 828 00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:36.760 would do the best I could to try and save that particular animals life in 829 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:40.239 that circumstance. You know, we have questions like this. We had one 830 00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:44.239 on the call last week where someone said, you know, why wouldn't just 831 00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.719 go and punch a dog. It's not comparable. I don't walk round punching 832 00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:53.840 things intentionally, causing physical harm to things for no reason whatsoever. You know 833 00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:58.960 I disagree with a lot of the farming processes, and know a lot of 834 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:04.320 vegans don't lie that they think that's an excuse. I think we would be 835 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:08.199 We had an extensive after show and the ACD discord last week, only we 836 00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:13.519 went to I think almost to the time where the next show began, and 837 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:17.800 aren't talking on this issue. And you know my stances that we would call 838 00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:25.599 we would have a much much better kind of overall well being for animals if 839 00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:32.719 vegans and meat eaters worked together to change farming methods, to change the way 840 00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:37.280 with farm, to change the way we treat animals while they're being formed. 841 00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:40.760 I think it would cause I think it would it would make the price of 842 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.440 meat go up. It would make the consumption of meat to go down. 843 00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:47.599 I'll just finish my thought and then I'll let jump in. I think it 844 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:50.880 would make the price of meat go up. I think it would make the 845 00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:53.199 cost of meat come down. I think it would make the health of people 846 00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:59.239 eating meat better overall. And I think all of those things are good things. 847 00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:04.960 But that doesn't to me say that we must therefore all become vegan. 848 00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:07.880 Well, I think, well, it's my first point I would say is 849 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:09.920 if you replace any of those words cow, pig, chicken, fish, 850 00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:15.000 wash, if you replace it with human, I'm going I would probably installate. 851 00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:17.000 Why well, I'm saying, like, why would we change the word 852 00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:19.960 to human? Well, because it's just a show. I want to see 853 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.639 if you're consistent, Like, because I'm thinking you would change everything. You 854 00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:25.559 just say, why is it inconsistent? Why is it inconsistent? But what's 855 00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:29.639 kind of like if somebody said a black life is worth less than a white 856 00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:31.840 life, right, if you're saying an animal life is worth lives? It's 857 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:36.400 not like that, because black, black people and white people are human beings, 858 00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:38.480 and I appreciate human beings, and I can communicate with them, and 859 00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:44.679 for the most part of our exceptions, but I can communicate with human beings 860 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.679 on the same level that I myself communicate. I can't do that with other 861 00:57:47.719 --> 00:57:52.599 animals. That doesn't mean I don't care about the welfare or well being of 862 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.840 animals while they are alive. I don't want to see undue suffering, And 863 00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:02.159 that to me is because you have a problem with them suffering. I think 864 00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:06.920 the reason you have a problem with them suffering is because you recognize that any 865 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:08.599 level of suffering is wrong and you want to minimize it. So if we 866 00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:13.239 can minimize it altogether and just cause no suffering at all, why not pick 867 00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:17.760 that up? Why would be cause no suffering at all? What would happen 868 00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:22.880 to the animals? And I'm not talking about kind of just I'm not just 869 00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:25.280 kind of throw in the short term, you know, let's get rid of 870 00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:30.159 all the farm animal What would we do if we all became vegan tomorrow argument, 871 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:34.920 I'm not going down that kind of rule, although that is a valid 872 00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:38.079 argument in itself, I think. But let's say that if we're talking about 873 00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:44.199 reduction of suffering, let's take pigs as an example. If if the vegan 874 00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:47.559 argument is that we should reduce suffering, and we can, you know, 875 00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:52.119 we've got wild pigs, We've got farmed pigs. Now, let's say if 876 00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:54.480 we stop farming pigs, the number of wild pigs would go up, because 877 00:58:54.679 --> 00:59:00.519 those you know, unless we are just advocating killing all of those animals off. 878 00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:05.199 Now, what's got which has better less suffering? If let's say we 879 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:09.679 have a kind of ideal form which reduces minimize us suffering or as much as 880 00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:13.719 we can possibly and I know we don't have that, and that's why I 881 00:59:13.719 --> 00:59:16.320 think we should work together to kind of achieve those things. But let's say 882 00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:20.239 that we do have that, and then we have a pig in the wild, 883 00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:23.280 which one of those two things has less suffering? Do you think one 884 00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:29.000 with shelter, one with access to medicine before before it's killed for food, 885 00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:32.239 one that's had had access to medicine, one that's got shelter, one that's 886 00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.119 you know, is cared for, or the one that's left in the wild, 887 00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:42.039 and even at the point of death, where if it's one in the 888 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:45.039 wild and it's it's getting ripped apart by a predator, or the one that 889 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:50.639 is, you know, quickly killed for meat consumption. If we're using suffering 890 00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:54.400 as an argument, which one of those has less suffering? Okay, I 891 00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:59.480 have several things to say to your point. Well, first, why you 892 00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:01.960 know said if it was wild versus kept in captivity. For me, I 893 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:06.039 think if everybody kind of treated it with the same outlook that I have, 894 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:08.760 I mean, we could still keep things in captivity and protect them without killing 895 01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:13.039 them is one option. I think, Well that would that would be ideal, 896 01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:15.920 But I think if we're talking realistically, that's not going to happen when 897 01:00:16.039 --> 01:00:20.719 if we're going to keep the amount of the kind of creatures alive, it 898 01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:24.559 still takes the land that they fed on, it still takes the kind of 899 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:30.280 the care. It costs money, and unless it's an industry which is willing 900 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:35.079 to do that for profit at the end of the day, then it's that's 901 01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:39.639 going to fall down onto charitable organizations. And that I think is an unrealistic 902 01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:44.079 standards to say, well, all these animals, well we can just care 903 01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.000 for them all. Well we can just care for them without killing them. 904 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:49.880 Well, I don't think that would be a little bit of thing. I 905 01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.440 caught a little bit of the previous call, and it sounded like, I 906 01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:55.039 believe Danny were saying that, you know, there are vegans that are violent 907 01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:59.920 and those that are not. I would argue that that is more plant based 908 01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:04.280 people who donate animals for health reasons and whatnot. Because vegans, the whole, 909 01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:07.280 the whole philosophy behind veganism is causing the least amount of harm possible. 910 01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:12.360 So whatever the answer ends up being, if everyone tomorrow stopped eating animals, 911 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:14.440 you're saying, what would we do with all these animals? You know, 912 01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:16.440 are they going to be killed? I said, I said, that was 913 01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:20.880 one. That was one argument you could use, but that's not the argument 914 01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:24.119 I was using. I was giving you a specific example of a creature in 915 01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:29.079 the world, and I've noticed how you've actually avoided answering this to go onto 916 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.639 something else, because my specific question, well, if we had a creature 917 01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:37.840 in the wild and one that was on a on a humane farm up until 918 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:43.000 the point of death, which one suffers less? Was this specific question I 919 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:46.199 asked you, And I notice how you've strategically avoided answering that question to give 920 01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:50.639 a different scenario. Well, let me answer your question. I think up 921 01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:52.760 until the point that they're killed, obviously, the one kept in captivity would 922 01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:58.400 have a potentially maybe a better life. However, why potentially maybe, and 923 01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:01.559 why only up until the point of death? Well let me answer, Let 924 01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:05.920 me please, you know, let me answer out. So for example, 925 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:07.960 if I ever capture like a spider, I caught one the other day that 926 01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:09.880 was in the airports for sure going to die. So I was like, 927 01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:13.119 Okay, I'm going to capture this and then I'm gonna take it home and 928 01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:15.159 release it. So when I got home, I was at the woods, 929 01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:17.400 I was like, I could keep this spider, and it would probably live 930 01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:21.840 a longer, safer life. Rather it might get eaten in five minutes after 931 01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:23.840 I release it. But then I put myself in the shoes of the spider, 932 01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:27.039 and I want to be free. I wanted to I'd say, let 933 01:02:27.079 --> 01:02:29.920 the spider take its chances that you know, like whether it gets eating or 934 01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:34.119 not. Maybe that's more nature versus if it's just kept as a slav or 935 01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:37.320 kept you know, and a plastic bottle for the rest of his life. 936 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:43.079 That's why absolutely imagined and absolutely as absolutely nothing to do with the specific question 937 01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.840 I asked you, which would suffer less? Because the argument you gave initially 938 01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:50.840 was one off suffering. So I'm asking you a question about suffering, well, 939 01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:54.679 which would suffer less? So let me get the answer out and I'm 940 01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:59.519 trying to, but you keep changing the trying to change the question. I'm 941 01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:02.960 asking you to relate to something else. If we're talking about suffering, which 942 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:07.280 is what you were talking about, which one stuff is less? I think 943 01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:10.199 that me personally, I don't know if I have that answer. But whoever 944 01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:14.840 decides that if they came in it with the philosophy of you know what I 945 01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:19.039 think, sir, I think I think it's difficult for you to answer because 946 01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:23.239 it demonstrates that the argument is giving is a flawed argument. And at the 947 01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:30.920 start of this you were talking about how our meat eaters akin to religious people 948 01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:34.159 with some of the arguments to give, and I know it's this is exactly 949 01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:38.320 you're doing. You're doing the theist thing yourself. You're not answering a specific 950 01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:43.440 question given to you because it appears to be difficult for the thing that you 951 01:03:43.519 --> 01:03:45.679 want to try and demonstrate. I'm not sure, Richard, I think he 952 01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:49.559 said he wasn't sure of the answer here. I want to make sure that 953 01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:52.239 Brandon gets his point across here too. Brandon, go ahead, Yeah, 954 01:03:52.280 --> 01:03:54.760 so thank you. I fact uninterrupted for just I don't know a minute or 955 01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:59.519 so please. I think that the first point I would make is there's nothing 956 01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:01.599 we get from an animal that we don't get from a plant. Nutrition wise, 957 01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:05.199 it's just filtered through the animal. All the protein, all the nutrition 958 01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:09.800 comes from plants. So knowing that there's really no reason to eat animals, 959 01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:12.960 So maybe you might say taste pleasure. But if I could convince you with 960 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.960 some delicious vegan food that you could get all the taste pleasure you want from 961 01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:18.960 plants and the whole thing is completely unnecessary, then I think we would both 962 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.760 be in the same place of why would we do this? We don't need 963 01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:25.960 it for taste or for a nutrition. So, having said that, the 964 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:30.639 whole philosophy behind veganism is just showing love, treating everyone as an equal, 965 01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:33.519 whether you're an ant or a human or whatever. So to your specific question, 966 01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:36.920 well, I probably don't have the answer to that, But whoever comes 967 01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:40.960 up with the answer, I think if they approached it from the position of 968 01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:45.000 the most loving answer possible, that you know, as we replaced the word 969 01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:47.159 pig was human, I think it's very easy to see where I'm coming from 970 01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:49.440 if I said, if it was a human, would you want to be 971 01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:53.239 farmed and killed? No matter what life you've got, at some point you 972 01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:56.400 say I don't want to be killed, I'd better take my chance. And 973 01:04:56.440 --> 01:05:00.119 I've already answered this question. And did you catch last week's show or Brandon 974 01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:03.360 when we when we kind of had the Vega conversation on that, Well, 975 01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:06.480 I haven't, and I'm sure you probably have answered it. I was just 976 01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:10.679 thinking, as I said earlier, that I run the official vegans and channel, 977 01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:13.039 and I said all my followers to you guys a channel, so I 978 01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:15.239 just wanted to hear them say what I say to you guys. I want 979 01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:19.039 you guys say back. I think would be interesting for my audience. And 980 01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:24.000 I'll definitely check up on that previous video after this phone call. Yeah, 981 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:27.639 I think we should, because just just quickly before you go, I think 982 01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:30.239 I touched on the point on that last channel when you said, you know, 983 01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:34.199 you want to cause you know, as little harm as possible to things, 984 01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:36.960 you know, I touch. And this is one of the this is 985 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:43.480 one of the major things which stops me thinking that veganism is a model imperative. 986 01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:45.559 I have no problem with people being vegan. I'm not one of those 987 01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:48.880 people. I'm not one of those people who say you shouldn't be vegan. 988 01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:53.199 I'm not I'm not like, I have no problem whatsoever with people who are 989 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:57.440 vegan. I think this issue it's almost more. I feel like this is 990 01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.280 more important than the almost as somebody a believer or an atheist, because that's 991 01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:03.079 kind of like all in your mind. But this is these are the actions 992 01:06:03.079 --> 01:06:05.880 that come as a result of what somebody believes, and it's literally a matter 993 01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:10.599 of life and depth. If somebody believes that the Bible told them it's okay 994 01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:13.840 to have a little animal holocaust, then that's what they're going to do. 995 01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:16.360 So I think that their actions are more important than their beliefs. Since so 996 01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:20.079 I you know, I know you're already talking. I think Brandon, action 997 01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:25.880 beliefs in form actions, and you know, you know this is why I 998 01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:30.760 advocate for you know, I don't believe that we should unduly go out causing 999 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.360 harm to things for no reason. This is why I think vegans and non 1000 01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:39.079 vegans should work together to get I think I think the bigger question is not 1001 01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:42.320 whether someone is vegan or non vegan. But I think the bigger question is 1002 01:06:42.599 --> 01:06:45.719 why the folk do we allow current farming methods the way they are? And 1003 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:49.440 I think we'd have far more impacts if we work together. I think we'd 1004 01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:54.360 have far more impact if we worked together as vegans and non vegans to try 1005 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.960 and change that. Then if we if we spend time on doing about whether 1006 01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:00.360 they should be vegan or not. I think the moment you say that one 1007 01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:04.719 life is more valuable than another in any context, that leads to factory farming. 1008 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:11.079 So the first don't do this whole system Brandon Brandon. Brandon, do 1009 01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:14.000 you have children, sir, I don't. I do, and I can 1010 01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:17.480 tell you absolutely that I view one life more important than another, because if 1011 01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:21.840 anybody attempted to harm my children, that person would be in a far worse 1012 01:07:21.920 --> 01:07:30.079 condition because of my actions than an advocation. I see that, I see, 1013 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.559 and I believe you'll do too. I think if I think, if 1014 01:07:32.559 --> 01:07:35.519 you are family, I have. I have a dog who lives in our 1015 01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:41.360 house and it is safe everybody, and all last week we're talking about dog 1016 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:45.679 meet. He is safe. I value that dog's life more than I value 1017 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:49.199 someone else's dog's life because he's part of my close circle. And I think 1018 01:07:49.239 --> 01:07:53.039 we all have that, whether we're vegan or well. Hang out. We'll 1019 01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.760 wait a minute. We do need to end this because we're fifteen minutes in. 1020 01:07:55.880 --> 01:07:58.559 But I want to ask one question for you, Richard. You said 1021 01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:01.199 that you would eat dog meat, but you also said that you wouldn't let 1022 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:04.960 anybody harm your dog. So is there any inconsistency there? What have we 1023 01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:08.599 found a dog on the street? Why does the dog on the street. 1024 01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:11.039 Why is it okay for me to eat that dog but not the dog that 1025 01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:15.480 I don't think in the society in which we live, it's okay to do 1026 01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:17.279 that. Said. You said you would eat dog meat though, Yeah, 1027 01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:23.239 if we had, if we had a society where we eat that, we 1028 01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:27.560 eat dogs, and we you know they were they were formed to a standard 1029 01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.520 where they were you know, because in society is where they do eat. 1030 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:34.079 Dogs are not particularly cared for. In principle, I have no problem with 1031 01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:38.119 the in dog meat. This was saying it only matters if it's right or 1032 01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:41.319 wrong to eat a dog if society says it's okay. I'm saying that. 1033 01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:46.079 I was going to say, I'm saying it matters to eat it because we 1034 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:49.840 don't. We can't just simply go against the laws of our land for what 1035 01:08:49.880 --> 01:08:55.560 we consider is acceptable to do. Yeah, we can. We do it 1036 01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:57.520 all the time. You know what I would? I would? I would 1037 01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:00.319 if it was a lot of the land for me to report Jewish people to 1038 01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:01.800 the Nazi government, I wouldn't do it. What do you mean, Richard? 1039 01:09:02.439 --> 01:09:04.920 The law of the land doesn't determine what's right or wrong. Come on, 1040 01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:08.039 now, than what if? What if? What if it was state 1041 01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:11.199 mandated Christianity we have to go to church every sudday. If we don't do 1042 01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:15.399 it, but we could still fight against it without having to right, kind 1043 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:16.760 of at the point peel to it straight away. But right, But the 1044 01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:20.359 point is social norms, right, don't determine necessarily what's right or wrong. 1045 01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:23.960 Right, just because it's the law of the land. No, I agree, 1046 01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:27.880 Yeah, I agree, but I don't on the issue of but that's 1047 01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:30.960 not what we're talking about. The issue of eating meat. And the kind 1048 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.199 of conversation last week was about colnism. And you know, the reason that 1049 01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:40.199 came up was because the kind of definition of colnism is that they would treat 1050 01:09:40.399 --> 01:09:45.199 some creatures differently to others depending on the status. And the reason I said 1051 01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:48.399 that was because I don't actually, in principle, I have no problem with 1052 01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:59.359 the things that we would classify as pects would not not unless because of with 1053 01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:01.159 I've already answered this question. I don't know why we have to go back 1054 01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:04.800 there, because humans I can relate to on a different level. They are 1055 01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:09.439 parts of my own species. Yeah, I think this is an ongoing conversation. 1056 01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:11.960 We're over fifteen minutes on this call. We have to let it go. 1057 01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:16.319 Brandon. I appreciate your calling in absolutely, Thank you so much, 1058 01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:20.199 No problem, Brandon, thank you for having me on. Yeah, absolutely, 1059 01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:24.279 have a good one. Uh. This is an ongoing topic here, 1060 01:10:24.359 --> 01:10:27.960 Richard. You know, we're whittling you away. We're slowly converting you to 1061 01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:30.960 the high Church of Veganism. Uh. And that is the agenda, it's 1062 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:34.000 written out. Yeah, I don't care. I'm not really tied into the 1063 01:10:34.039 --> 01:10:36.800 vegan community. Actually, it's very funny. I didn't realize that there are 1064 01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:41.920 other channels sending people to the show. That's really funny. Yeah. I 1065 01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:45.319 just want to say before we move on to further announcements and things, that 1066 01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:47.600 I'm going to repeat what I said at the l end of last week's show. 1067 01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:51.760 There were lots of people complain about the vegan calls coming in, or 1068 01:10:51.800 --> 01:10:55.880 even the philosophy calls that come in. If you don't want to hear them, 1069 01:10:56.079 --> 01:10:59.359 get you religious friends to phone in, because we're going to field those 1070 01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:01.600 calls if the come in. If you want to hear questions about God and 1071 01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:05.680 questions about religion, get the people you know who are religious and all believe 1072 01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:10.760 us to believe is in God to call in. You know, don't just 1073 01:11:10.840 --> 01:11:15.000 sit there complaining that we take vegan calls, because it's not going to stop 1074 01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:17.159 us taking vegan calls. Even though I'm on the other side of it, 1075 01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:21.159 I know it's not going to stop the other thing too. It's entertaining for 1076 01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:25.760 me one because the very unique position I sit in, but also because it's 1077 01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:29.199 different from the other kind of stuff we're usually talking about on here, and 1078 01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:30.920 I like I like seeing it. I like it even if it's messy, 1079 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:33.399 it's pretty funny for me. I'm not gonna lie it is. It is 1080 01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:36.760 for my personal satisfaction a little bit, and I will take advantage of that 1081 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:42.880 while I'm posts anyway, Richard, Thanks, thanks, thanks for being a 1082 01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:45.680 good sport. And moving on, Let's get some a couple announcements out of 1083 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:48.640 the way and we might have some theist calls here in just a second, 1084 01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:53.680 real quick though. The ACA does want you to know what is happening in 1085 01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:57.800 the community, and for that there is an updated website. It's www dot 1086 01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:00.840 Atheist hyphen Community dot org. We're you can learn about the organization itself, 1087 01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:04.600 it's policies, and what you can do to get involved. And we also 1088 01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:06.560 want to hear from you. We want to know what you liked, what 1089 01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:10.680 your thought was effective, and more importantly, what you thought we could do 1090 01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:14.439 better. Specifically what Richard can do better now that he's host, not host, 1091 01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:17.560 start producer of Talk Keathan. So go complain to Richard now and you 1092 01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:21.520 can do that if you email TV at Atheist typhon community dot org and let 1093 01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:25.920 us know or let me know how much I suck as a host, or 1094 01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:29.520 if I'm good, whatever you want to tell us there, that's the email 1095 01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:32.159 address to do it. And we're past the hour here, so we need 1096 01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:39.640 to get to some of those top five patron announcements. So Richard, if 1097 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:41.760 you want to get that list set up, But while you're getting that up, 1098 01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:44.439 I'm gonna say if you happen to be in the Austin area. Next 1099 01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:47.359 week, on the twenty seventh, the bat Cruise weekend, we are also 1100 01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:50.680 doing a live broadcast of Talk Keithan and The Atheist Experience. It's going to 1101 01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:56.119 be a three host show for Talk Keithan and a three host show for the 1102 01:12:56.119 --> 01:12:59.840 Experience. We got Forest val Kai, J Mike, and Jamie Forbes next 1103 01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:03.880 week, A k A. Blind Limy and also Johnny p Angel, Forrest 1104 01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:09.039 Valkaye and J Mike on Eighthies Experience. It is a free event, of 1105 01:13:09.079 --> 01:13:12.840 course, doors open at noon, so check it out. You got that 1106 01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:17.560 list of top five patrons rich Absolutely. Number one is Dinglebridge Jackson. Number 1107 01:13:17.560 --> 01:13:23.399 two is Beyond Lashi, who is incidentally a new patron, so it's great 1108 01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:29.640 to see you. Two new page jump to five Absolutely, number three is 1109 01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:34.720 one of my favorite oops all Singularity, Number four Devaux Valjean, and number 1110 01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:41.760 five the old favorite call Helvette. And then honorable mention this week to JP 1111 01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:45.800 Young. So thank you all for your patronage. We really really do appreciate 1112 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:49.680 it. And while we're on the subject souper chats, you can send super 1113 01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:54.960 chats. We do have a super chat from Tinkles Twinkle to us for ten 1114 01:13:55.119 --> 01:13:59.920 pounds, which suggests to me that they are in my neck of the woods. 1115 01:14:00.479 --> 01:14:02.800 And they ask, I'm reading this out because they ask done what we 1116 01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:06.640 all believes? And what is your story on how you became an atheist? 1117 01:14:06.800 --> 01:14:10.680 Thanks? Yeah, I feel like I've told this story a million times, 1118 01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:14.239 so I will give you a truncated version and tell you where you can find 1119 01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:18.279 out more. But in short, I was most often known for having a 1120 01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:25.319 conversation of myself as a Christian with Anthony mcdabosco in the street Epistemology community, 1121 01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:28.560 and so that was kind of a thing for while. There's a thirty minute 1122 01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:30.920 conversation of me as a Christian if you want to see that, it's it's 1123 01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:34.079 on YouTube. But you know, that wasn't the reason why I became an 1124 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:38.279 atheist. It was I call it a stepping started in my path. I 1125 01:14:38.279 --> 01:14:41.479 mean, I grew up as a Christian and I and I talked about this 1126 01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:44.960 more in the sequel video to that, which is also on Anthony's channel, 1127 01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:47.159 but basically, the short version is I grew up as a Christian, was 1128 01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:51.239 very much involved in the Christian community, and eventually, when I found that 1129 01:14:51.279 --> 01:14:56.560 I couldn't actually demonstrate how my beliefs could be true, or at least I 1130 01:14:56.560 --> 01:15:00.800 couldn't demonstrate them to be true more so than really any other it just claims, 1131 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:03.520 I realized it wasn't right for me to hold on to them because I've 1132 01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:08.560 just wanted to believe things that were true. So I eventually discarded those beliefs 1133 01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:11.600 and got more involved in the atheist community. And hey, eventually I showed 1134 01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:15.000 up here one day, so that's pretty cool. But yeah, it's a 1135 01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:18.319 story. You can check out again on Anthony mcnabosco's channel. There's a first 1136 01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:20.960 video there, and there's a second video there where I go in depth more 1137 01:15:21.279 --> 01:15:25.680 about my story. And I've been interviewed on a couple of different channels as 1138 01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:28.720 well. Sidney Davis Jr. Junior, who was on the show recently, 1139 01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:33.119 also interviewed me on her podcast, So check that out as well if you 1140 01:15:33.159 --> 01:15:36.239 want a more recent coverage. I guess from like a few weeks ago, 1141 01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:39.199 a few months ago, I think is when I did that, So yeah, 1142 01:15:39.319 --> 01:15:41.880 check that out. Also, we just got another super chat here, 1143 01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:44.640 so I'll go ahead and read. It's from Robin Webster, who gave five 1144 01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:46.960 dollars, who says, what would a vegan diet mean in regards to our 1145 01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:51.479 development of bigger brains by eating and cooking meat? Good job with callers, 1146 01:15:51.520 --> 01:15:56.760 and it's a great point. So it's been often speculated by the anthropologists that 1147 01:15:56.800 --> 01:16:00.159 one of the reasons why we have bigger brains is because of our ability to 1148 01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:03.600 eat cooked foods. Now, this isn't a definitive answer as to why we 1149 01:16:03.640 --> 01:16:06.960 have larger brains. It is one of many competing theories. However, it 1150 01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:10.239 has a lot of traction. Truth is, we don't know for sure. 1151 01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:15.279 The thing is, if you know, if we can synthesize proteins in the 1152 01:16:15.319 --> 01:16:19.239 same level that we can get from like cooked meat and cooked products. I 1153 01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:23.880 really don't see this being like a huge problem. And also we're talking about 1154 01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:28.439 in evolutionary terms, which matter for like, you know, millions of years, 1155 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:31.319 uh sometimes, So it really just kind of depends to me. This 1156 01:16:31.399 --> 01:16:35.640 is like a very sci fi hypothetical space rustion, which maybe that's that's what 1157 01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:39.319 you're getting at, Robin. I don't know, but it's not a big 1158 01:16:39.359 --> 01:16:42.159 concern for me. If that's what you're interested in. I mean, it 1159 01:16:42.199 --> 01:16:44.239 could have an effect, but really, how can we really know. I 1160 01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:46.199 mean, we don't even know what our current diets due to us we have 1161 01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:49.880 a very limited understanding of nutritional science as it is. I don't know if 1162 01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:53.600 we can make far flung predictions like that in the future. Maybe some people 1163 01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:57.680 think we can, but I'm not aware of a science that robust that can 1164 01:16:57.800 --> 01:17:00.520 that can do that. I don't know if you had any thoughts on Richard, 1165 01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:03.239 but yeah, that's my take. You're muted right now, Richard. 1166 01:17:03.319 --> 01:17:06.199 Just f yi. Yeah, thanks Dan, Yeah, I tind to I 1167 01:17:06.239 --> 01:17:11.319 actually agree with Dan on that. I think, you know, if that's 1168 01:17:11.359 --> 01:17:15.079 the case that you know, our bigger brain development came from me in me. 1169 01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:19.600 That has no, no, nothing at all to do with whether we 1170 01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:24.760 choose to be vegan now or not. You know that we've already got those 1171 01:17:24.760 --> 01:17:28.600 bigger brains. What what would it have an effects going forward? We don't 1172 01:17:28.600 --> 01:17:30.119 know. You know, we'd have to do the we'd have to do the 1173 01:17:30.159 --> 01:17:38.399 research. Don't think it's neither of us are capable of doing. But let's 1174 01:17:38.479 --> 01:17:41.359 let's try to get at least one more caller. We'll see if we can 1175 01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:45.560 take any more. For today, we're talking to Herbert, who is calling 1176 01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:48.960 in from Arkansas, Herbert who says, we are being deceived by the devil. 1177 01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:53.000 Herbert, you're a live on talk ethen, what's up all right? 1178 01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:58.600 Yeah, we definitely are being deceived by the devil, and of course all 1179 01:17:58.680 --> 01:18:04.399 religions will tell you about that. But the deception is very simple, and 1180 01:18:04.399 --> 01:18:08.680 it's right in our faces, and no one seems to see it. The 1181 01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:13.640 big lie is about the nature of our reality and the nature of our realm 1182 01:18:13.720 --> 01:18:18.920 and our planet in the Solar System, and of who created what. And 1183 01:18:19.520 --> 01:18:27.239 basically that's that's being perpetuated by NASA and by all of the space programs that 1184 01:18:27.359 --> 01:18:31.239 are absolutely lying to us. How well, I'll there now. I take 1185 01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:34.359 it you have definitive evidence that this is the case. Then I don't know, 1186 01:18:34.399 --> 01:18:39.399 I guess how you define definitive evidence. Well, do you think I'm 1187 01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:42.960 quite sure about it? So, yeah, what's your reason you're saying that 1188 01:18:43.039 --> 01:18:45.760 this is absolutely the case? I'm sure you've got something that is it? 1189 01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:50.199 Is it just a hunch you've got? They have documents demonstrating that NA NASA 1190 01:18:50.199 --> 01:18:55.039 are lying to us. What kind of what level of evidence is it that 1191 01:18:55.640 --> 01:18:58.960 persuades you that this is true? Well, we all live on a creator 1192 01:18:59.239 --> 01:19:01.920 in a creator on the moon. Okay. That has absolutely nothing to do 1193 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:06.000 with the question I've just asked you, sir. I feel like I've been 1194 01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:12.920 avoid people who avoiding my questions tonight and then strollly frustrating. What level of 1195 01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:16.079 evidence, sir, do you have that NASA are lying to us? Is 1196 01:19:16.119 --> 01:19:20.239 it a hunch you have got? Do you have do you have some undisclosed 1197 01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:27.039 some documents that have been disclosed to yourself by NASA personnel? Have you seen 1198 01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:30.279 documents? Have you spoken to people from NASA who've told you that this is 1199 01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:33.439 the case. No, I have a logical mind that they can see the 1200 01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:38.119 truth. So I have Wait, I have a largical mining the truth too, 1201 01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:41.239 and I think NASA's being totally honest. So now what well we have? 1202 01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:43.880 I mean, first of all, you're asking me for proof of something 1203 01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:49.239 that I haven't even really explained. What's going on here? Different evidence of 1204 01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:53.319 the king that you made, which was that NASA was lying to us. 1205 01:19:53.720 --> 01:19:56.840 I want to deal with that specific. You see the moon, Yes, 1206 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.640 you see the moon. What has that got to do with NASA lying to 1207 01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:01.199 us? Wait? Wait, wait, let them cook, let them cook, 1208 01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:03.680 Richard, Yeah, I can see the moon. What's up? Have 1209 01:20:03.760 --> 01:20:06.600 you ever looked at the moon through a telescope or footage of a moon through 1210 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:11.000 the telescope? Yeah, I've done both. Yeah, and you notice how 1211 01:20:11.039 --> 01:20:15.479 everything looks wavy and all the stars look wavy. Everything looks like it's watery. 1212 01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:19.279 No, because it's only reflections. It's reflections off of them. I 1213 01:20:19.319 --> 01:20:23.880 think it looks watery. And but don't said no, don't said to naughty 1214 01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:27.119 Ansa. And then you said, well that's because well, when I don't 1215 01:20:27.159 --> 01:20:29.319 agree with you, when I go outside and I look at the moon, 1216 01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:31.039 and I turned into a werewolf, they're in the full moon. I don't 1217 01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:33.880 see any water on the mirror. I don't see. I don't think it's 1218 01:20:33.880 --> 01:20:36.600 watery. It doesn't look watery to me. See, you're not even listening. 1219 01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:40.560 I am listening. You said it looks watery. I say, I 1220 01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:44.199 don't think it looks watery. You say it's wavy election off of water. 1221 01:20:44.520 --> 01:20:46.720 Yeah, wavy, it doesn't. Why do you say that you've never seen 1222 01:20:46.760 --> 01:20:51.199 close up some stars how they look like water flowing? No, I don't 1223 01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:54.640 think they do. I mean I don't think they look like water. I 1224 01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:57.840 think they look like gases. You know, yeah, they are gases. 1225 01:20:57.960 --> 01:21:00.920 Okay, gases aren't water. I mean they're not like liquid water anyway. 1226 01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:04.479 I mean they could be water in liquid and gas form. But well, 1227 01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:08.560 why don't you guys let me tell you what I'm trying to say before you 1228 01:21:08.600 --> 01:21:12.720 start asking me for proof of what I'm trying to say, because I actually 1229 01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:17.479 don't agree. We don't just let people come on here and just talk and 1230 01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:23.439 talk and talk and talk. This is about having conversations about beliefs and white 1231 01:21:23.479 --> 01:21:30.199 people belief it's not it's not simply about someone coming out with multiple things. 1232 01:21:30.239 --> 01:21:34.000 You made a claim, you made a claim about NASA lying, I still 1233 01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:41.399 want to it seems like your establishment of that it's simple, It's simply, 1234 01:21:41.720 --> 01:21:45.600 sir, is simply that it feels that way to you. Now, I 1235 01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:50.960 would because if you demonstrated absolutely that NASA was lying, then I would be 1236 01:21:51.079 --> 01:21:56.079 very interested in what NASA was lying about. See this. I once did 1237 01:21:56.119 --> 01:22:01.800 a comparison between people who believe in conspiracy theories about NASA's kind of similar to 1238 01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:08.720 you, that have no evidence behind them, and actual conspiracies within NASA that 1239 01:22:08.840 --> 01:22:13.479 have been demonstrated, and one of them was when the Challenger. Then an 1240 01:22:13.560 --> 01:22:19.720 actual, an actual conspiracy that happened with NASA was when the Challenger spacecraft exploded 1241 01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:25.439 and there was an investigation into it, and it turned out that NASA knew 1242 01:22:25.760 --> 01:22:30.920 about the fault that was present in the OWE rings during that launch, that 1243 01:22:30.319 --> 01:22:34.479 they weren't stable a certain when it got to a certain low temperature. They 1244 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:39.960 knew about this, and it was kind of swept under the carpet during the 1245 01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:45.079 investigation. That is a genuine conspiracy. We have evidence of it, we 1246 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:49.159 have paper trail of it, we have a witness testimony about it, and 1247 01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:55.800 it was demonstrated to be the case That is how you demonstrate that a conspiracy 1248 01:22:55.880 --> 01:23:00.920 is taking place. Just simply saying where it kind of doesn't really feel right 1249 01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:04.239 to me is not evidence that conspiracy is taking place. You're just making the 1250 01:23:04.319 --> 01:23:11.079 statement that a conspiracy is taking place. Now, if you could demonstrate that 1251 01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:17.039 a conspiracy was actually taking place, I myself and I'm absolutely sure that Dan 1252 01:23:17.159 --> 01:23:21.560 would also be very, very very interested in what that conspiracy was. But 1253 01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:28.079 at first we need to know that a conspiracy is actually taking place, because 1254 01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:30.760 otherwise it's just a statement. You have no idea what I'm trying to tell 1255 01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:34.439 you, because you're asking for proof before I even can explain what I'm trying 1256 01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:39.119 to say. You said the moon isn't real. You said it's a reflection. 1257 01:23:39.399 --> 01:23:41.479 No, I did not. I did not say the moon is not 1258 01:23:41.600 --> 01:23:45.399 real. Okay. The way is the moon the giant planet, the reflection 1259 01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:48.079 of the giant planet that all other planet starts exist on, and we are 1260 01:23:48.119 --> 01:23:55.359 seeing reflections off of our atmosphere and off of other atmospheres that are outside of 1261 01:23:55.359 --> 01:24:00.880 it. There's several plasma layers scientifically proven that go around our Solar system, 1262 01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:06.000 the Sun, the planets. We're seeing luminaries that are just reflections of reflection 1263 01:24:06.760 --> 01:24:11.479 of the disagree with activity. He's right. Wait no, Richard, he's 1264 01:24:11.520 --> 01:24:15.600 right. No, he's right, he's right. I'm an agreeance. I 1265 01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:19.079 think it's all okay, okay, Herbert, why do you think that's infections? 1266 01:24:19.279 --> 01:24:23.920 The deception, the deception by of the devil, is that we are 1267 01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:29.840 made to believe that we are floating out in some space all crazy like and 1268 01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:32.800 you know, millions of miles an hour, whatever however you want to call 1269 01:24:32.840 --> 01:24:39.239 it. But who is the devil? And why I would what would be 1270 01:24:39.279 --> 01:24:43.079 his advantage in deceiving is over such a thing. There's a giant planet out 1271 01:24:43.079 --> 01:24:46.479 there, full of resources, and who is the places? Wait? Wait, 1272 01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:49.760 wait, hold on, wait, I want to we gotta we gotta 1273 01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:54.000 go deeper, Richard. I gotta know this. So there's a plant that 1274 01:24:54.199 --> 01:24:58.840 is the hope of truth wants a call in case you don't know he talks 1275 01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:00.560 about this stuff. This is my bread and butter, all right, I 1276 01:25:00.840 --> 01:25:05.520 gotta know. So there's a planet and it's reflection is what we see on 1277 01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:10.079 the moon. That right, Our image of the moon is a reflection, 1278 01:25:10.279 --> 01:25:15.880 no image of your cosmic reflection of the entire planet, and on that planet 1279 01:25:15.159 --> 01:25:19.079 everything all the other planets and stars exist, satellites and all that crap. 1280 01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:23.239 So the moon, the moon is a reflection. It doesn't it's not there 1281 01:25:23.640 --> 01:25:27.720 in in a material flight. It's a reflection. Okay, So what's reflecting 1282 01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:30.319 it? It's underneath this, we're on top of it, we're standing on 1283 01:25:30.439 --> 01:25:33.159 it, we live on the moon. It is a reflection of the planet 1284 01:25:33.239 --> 01:25:36.479 that we are on. Oh okay, okay, okay. So the moon 1285 01:25:36.640 --> 01:25:42.439 is a reflection of our planet. But our planet is eleven hundred times bigger 1286 01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:45.439 than what we're told Earth is sea, Richard. This is some deep info 1287 01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:48.439 that you just gotta we gotta, I gotta learn from this. Okay. 1288 01:25:48.479 --> 01:25:51.359 Wait, so so we're on a planet and it's big, really big, 1289 01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:55.760 and the moon is a reflection of that. So like, what is the 1290 01:25:56.000 --> 01:25:59.479 Is the moon just like a giant mirror in the sky? How does that 1291 01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:02.560 work? You know? The plasma of the the our atmosphere, which is 1292 01:26:02.600 --> 01:26:08.600 made of gases which are compressed into liquid, is reflective, just like water, 1293 01:26:08.920 --> 01:26:12.079 and so some of the light goes through and some end goes to the 1294 01:26:12.199 --> 01:26:15.680 next layers and reflects off of that too. It's like having two two way 1295 01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:21.479 mirrors or two you know, translucent, kind of halfway reflective, you know, 1296 01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:27.000 surfaces bouncing the same light back and forth to each other. Some light 1297 01:26:27.079 --> 01:26:30.319 goes through, some light comes back, and the stuff that goes through makes 1298 01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:33.520 it look like that there's a whole bunch of these things out there. But 1299 01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:39.840 what we're actually seeing is Earth has its atmosphere. We're seeing other realms, 1300 01:26:40.039 --> 01:26:44.439 other places on the Moon that have their atmospheres too. And we see that 1301 01:26:44.600 --> 01:26:48.279 shining and we think that's a star, but that's actually just another realm, 1302 01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:51.680 another planet, plant, you know, plant, you know, like a 1303 01:26:53.039 --> 01:26:56.279 get it the word, you know, it's a small part of the plane. 1304 01:26:56.600 --> 01:26:59.199 Okay, okay, so wait, but the moon in the sky at 1305 01:26:59.279 --> 01:27:02.039 least, right, same thing with the stars. Stars aren't in the same 1306 01:27:02.199 --> 01:27:06.680 location every time, but because oscillating, but they but they do stay in 1307 01:27:06.720 --> 01:27:12.039 the same position relatively, you know, you know, because of We know 1308 01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:15.199 that, because of astronomy, astrology, all that stuff. It doesn't change. 1309 01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:19.720 It's because it's right. Yeah, no, I hear you. I'm 1310 01:27:19.760 --> 01:27:23.800 listening. Okay, now see see now we have a fuller picture of your 1311 01:27:23.800 --> 01:27:27.199 worldview here, Herbert. I appreciate you sharing that with us. Let's get 1312 01:27:27.239 --> 01:27:30.760 to the nitty gritty here. Okay, Richard wants to know a couple of 1313 01:27:30.840 --> 01:27:32.239 things. He wants to know about the devil. He wants to know about 1314 01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:35.279 the deception. So we start with that, Richard, or you want to 1315 01:27:35.319 --> 01:27:38.760 go a different one. What are you thinking? Yeah? Who is the 1316 01:27:38.840 --> 01:27:41.960 devil? I'm still well, I'm still interested in what this evidence is. 1317 01:27:42.920 --> 01:27:49.840 Yeah, the God of the Bible, of the Bible, because God of 1318 01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:58.640 the Bible is deceiving us through NASA and presumably other space faring agency everywhere, 1319 01:27:58.760 --> 01:28:00.439 Yes, yes, all of them. What should why should we care what 1320 01:28:00.520 --> 01:28:03.880 the Bible says? Just like anything else that has some truth in it. 1321 01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:06.640 Well, there are certain things that have some truth in it that aren't all 1322 01:28:06.800 --> 01:28:11.840 true, right, definitely not all true. It's it's absolutely misleading. So 1323 01:28:11.880 --> 01:28:14.800 why should we have about what he has to say? Yeah? How do 1324 01:28:14.880 --> 01:28:16.279 we know this part is a true part? What if it's a fake part? 1325 01:28:16.319 --> 01:28:18.479 What part are you talking about? Just any part of the Bible? 1326 01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:20.880 Right? How do we know the true parts from the Bible from the not 1327 01:28:21.039 --> 01:28:25.239 true parts of the Bible? I wouldn't know. Well, you do think 1328 01:28:25.359 --> 01:28:28.840 some of it's true, right, so you you must have a method. 1329 01:28:29.640 --> 01:28:32.600 Well, I mean some of the historical accounts are true. I think they're 1330 01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:38.399 just misinterpreted, you know, just like mythology is true, okay, and 1331 01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:43.840 it's being incredible and not real. There's some historical accounts of the Bible tell 1332 01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:47.279 you, yeah, there could be some exaggeration and stuff right in like mythology. 1333 01:28:47.600 --> 01:28:51.359 Right, yeah, I'm following you there. How do we decide which 1334 01:28:51.439 --> 01:28:56.479 is the right interpretation? Right? In other words, what if what you're 1335 01:28:56.520 --> 01:29:00.720 saying right now the entire cosmology, Like you're not using the Bible for answer. 1336 01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:02.319 I don't know. I'm not looking through the Bible for answers. No, 1337 01:29:02.399 --> 01:29:04.920 I'm looking around at the world. But what do you mean looking around 1338 01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:06.760 at the world? Because when I look around at the world, I do 1339 01:29:06.960 --> 01:29:12.159 not see that the that we that the moon is a reflection of our planet 1340 01:29:12.279 --> 01:29:15.600 alongside all the other stars. Like I'm looking around the world and I don't 1341 01:29:15.640 --> 01:29:17.600 see that. So how are you seeing that? What method are you using 1342 01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:21.680 to come to that conclusion? Because it makes everything else makes sense. To 1343 01:29:21.760 --> 01:29:25.880 be honest, it makes things make less sense. I don't think it makes 1344 01:29:26.239 --> 01:29:30.920 more sense, Like like like you're telling me that everybody within every single space 1345 01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:36.039 sparing every single aerospace engineering firm, every single one, the ones that don't 1346 01:29:36.039 --> 01:29:40.079 even go to space, the ones that just work around control as they do 1347 01:29:40.239 --> 01:29:45.560 not know. Everybody does not know. Everybody does not know. The elites. 1348 01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:49.920 Elon Musk knows, Jeff Bezos knows. They are shipping products out through 1349 01:29:50.079 --> 01:29:56.359 the people and other entities outside of our crater. Those giants satellites that we 1350 01:29:56.479 --> 01:30:00.399 see during the daytime, those are just man made realm that are just outside 1351 01:30:00.439 --> 01:30:05.279 of our crater. Perfect you you're saying Amazon's Wait, Amazon's doing space deliveries. 1352 01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:10.439 That's crazy. Wait they can't. They're late on my overnight. You're 1353 01:30:10.439 --> 01:30:13.359 telling me they can go, they can go to space. That's crazy, 1354 01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:16.960 dude, that's wild. Have canisters that well, why else would they have 1355 01:30:17.039 --> 01:30:23.319 fuel cells that don't get returned because they're just cargo and those space ships are 1356 01:30:23.439 --> 01:30:27.039 just full of helium. There's no way. If if we could, if 1357 01:30:27.079 --> 01:30:30.600 we if if if the cosmology, if the stars were like they said they 1358 01:30:30.640 --> 01:30:33.560 were in the moon was that far away, we'd never be able to get 1359 01:30:33.640 --> 01:30:38.720 there. Ever, what are they delivering? What do they got like? 1360 01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:41.920 What what do people there's this? I mean, there's people out there. 1361 01:30:42.119 --> 01:30:45.880 I don't know. Those phone tables what is it? Yeah, why do 1362 01:30:45.960 --> 01:30:49.319 you? Yeah, exactly, why do Why does Elon Musk think that he 1363 01:30:49.399 --> 01:30:54.399 can make a phone that works on Mars? Because Mars isn't that far away 1364 01:30:54.640 --> 01:30:58.319 and I've seen no. I just think Elk thinks very highly of himself. 1365 01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:00.800 I think that's why he thinks that. I think he thinks he could do 1366 01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:02.880 it. I don't know if that's because Mars is that far away he can 1367 01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:08.960 do it because Mars is a giant volcano, and there's a Soviet scientist that 1368 01:31:09.039 --> 01:31:13.840 even said that that Mars is the is the biggest volcano on the planet. 1369 01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:15.880 Her. Are you trolling? You're trolling, dude? Are you trolling her? 1370 01:31:16.600 --> 01:31:19.039 Knowing at all? I'm not trolling at all, not one bit. 1371 01:31:19.840 --> 01:31:23.359 If we live on the moon, if we live on the moon, why 1372 01:31:23.439 --> 01:31:27.399 don't we all? Why don't will wear silver costumes? Is predicted by the 1373 01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:30.800 moment. Religion. I think that's a very important question that needs answer. 1374 01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:34.039 And if we're going to talk about people living on them, yeah yeah, 1375 01:31:34.800 --> 01:31:38.680 yeah, yeah yeah. The Mormons, yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Man, 1376 01:31:38.760 --> 01:31:42.039 the Mormons, uh yeah, they're the weird ones Worman's really I don't 1377 01:31:42.079 --> 01:31:45.239 know about it. I don't really know exactly what they believe. Okay, 1378 01:31:45.359 --> 01:31:47.399 So so I have to do with costumes. That's just weird. So you 1379 01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:51.000 guys are deflecting. Where do we go from here? Like, how do 1380 01:31:51.079 --> 01:31:55.039 we know that any of this is true? Like, can you give us 1381 01:31:55.399 --> 01:31:58.680 one thing that we can look at that tells us. Oh yeah, Okay, 1382 01:31:58.960 --> 01:32:01.399 this makes sense because I'm hearing a speculation. Right, It's easy to 1383 01:32:01.479 --> 01:32:04.640 speculate. I can come up with my own cosmology. I can say the 1384 01:32:04.760 --> 01:32:10.520 moon is literally made of cheese, and the fact that people say it's made 1385 01:32:10.560 --> 01:32:14.960 of cheese as a joke is the government trying to dissuade us from the idea 1386 01:32:15.039 --> 01:32:17.199 that the moon is actually made of cheese. Right? I could say that, 1387 01:32:17.720 --> 01:32:20.359 what's going to make that true? Right? We have that. You 1388 01:32:20.399 --> 01:32:25.039 could say anything, but it doesn't make any logical sense. I'll be honest, 1389 01:32:25.079 --> 01:32:27.560 Herbert. I don't think what you're saying makes logical sense. I think 1390 01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:30.520 where we go from there, Herbert, to kind of get what you're saying 1391 01:32:30.560 --> 01:32:34.479 to make logical sense. I mean, even if we just apply the principles 1392 01:32:34.520 --> 01:32:41.479 of Welcom's rich ra is the kind of idea with the least amount of assumptions 1393 01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:45.880 is more likely to be correct. There were so many assumptions and what you're 1394 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:50.560 saying because that you could build the largest mountain in the universe out of that. 1395 01:32:51.640 --> 01:32:58.479 I'm not assuming there's plasma bubbles surrounding the planets in the Solar System, 1396 01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:03.920 that's scientific fact. I'm assuming that they would be compressed gases which are reflective, 1397 01:33:04.279 --> 01:33:09.640 similar to how water is. But that's a logical assumption that makes sense. 1398 01:33:09.800 --> 01:33:13.439 Why is that logical assumption that makes sense? Water can be dash can 1399 01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:16.960 to be compressed into liquid, and liquid that are that are not dark are 1400 01:33:17.159 --> 01:33:21.359 usually reflective or even if they are dark, Yeah, partially, but also 1401 01:33:21.720 --> 01:33:25.079 like planets could be a thing. See what I mean. We have different 1402 01:33:25.119 --> 01:33:29.479 ideas, right, So you hear the word plane at a small part of 1403 01:33:29.560 --> 01:33:32.319 the plane. Yeah, that's not what that the animology of that I think. 1404 01:33:32.439 --> 01:33:35.399 But but but but here's here's my greater point, right, Herbert, 1405 01:33:35.560 --> 01:33:41.399 we have different ideas. We can rank these ideas on what's more likely to 1406 01:33:41.479 --> 01:33:44.279 be true versus what's less likely to be true. Right. We can take 1407 01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:47.000 a list of a million ideas of what the universe is, and by and 1408 01:33:47.199 --> 01:33:50.920 large, there's going to be some that are just there's just no reason for 1409 01:33:51.079 --> 01:33:54.800 us to think it could be true. But we don't really have any other 1410 01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:57.760 reason. Besides, it could be to think it because some that are going 1411 01:33:57.840 --> 01:34:00.239 to be more likely to be true than others because of evidence, right, 1412 01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:03.520 because of the things we can observe. They tell you, They tell you 1413 01:34:03.680 --> 01:34:06.520 right in your face all day long. Why do you think, uh elon 1414 01:34:06.640 --> 01:34:13.319 muff internet company is called star Link because he is linking the stars that are 1415 01:34:13.520 --> 01:34:15.399 outside of our planet, that are on the same planet, outside of our 1416 01:34:15.439 --> 01:34:18.920 craters. How or it could just be he's a he's a sci fi nerd 1417 01:34:18.960 --> 01:34:21.079 and he thinks it sounds cool. You see what I mean. We have 1418 01:34:21.239 --> 01:34:26.760 different ideas about what one could be true. Yeah, we can. You 1419 01:34:26.840 --> 01:34:29.840 can play it all off like that, but when you really start to look 1420 01:34:29.920 --> 01:34:31.800 at it as how it makes sense. Why would he send his tesla out 1421 01:34:31.840 --> 01:34:35.199 there if he actually couldn't drive the stupid thing out there? Wait? Wait, 1422 01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:42.119 we can't. Nobody can drive cars out into space. Makes differ. 1423 01:34:42.279 --> 01:34:46.000 I've seen fast and furious. I disagree with you, don completely. Well, 1424 01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:51.079 that is also a lie perpetuated by the government to make you think otherwise. 1425 01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:55.520 We look like I think he put a rocket out in the space with 1426 01:34:55.640 --> 01:34:58.159 a Tesla car on it because he wanted to show off. That's why. 1427 01:34:58.399 --> 01:35:00.319 No, right, he needs his car out there. He needs a car 1428 01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:04.039 out there so it cruise around. You think he literally needs a car, 1429 01:35:04.279 --> 01:35:12.119 Herbert, you're strolling. I am. I do not believe for a second 1430 01:35:12.159 --> 01:35:15.399 you're being serious, Herbert. I am on dud. I have taken the 1431 01:35:15.600 --> 01:35:20.960 executive decision to drop Herbert because I think about last Remolte. It's ridiculous. 1432 01:35:21.079 --> 01:35:26.279 Come on, all right, even if oh, that's first of all very 1433 01:35:26.399 --> 01:35:30.680 unique cosmology, I'll give you points for creativity. Uh but look, I 1434 01:35:30.800 --> 01:35:33.520 could say a million ideas and none of them can be true because there's no 1435 01:35:33.640 --> 01:35:36.159 reason for us to believe it. I have yet to see a single thing 1436 01:35:36.199 --> 01:35:40.239 that you said today where I should think it's true if you're being genuine, 1437 01:35:40.479 --> 01:35:44.359 which I'm suspicious of. But if there is a good chance you're being genuine, 1438 01:35:44.479 --> 01:35:45.880 I really want you to think, like, Okay, how would you 1439 01:35:45.960 --> 01:35:49.479 convince a guy like me? Right? What's the best strategy to convince a 1440 01:35:49.560 --> 01:35:54.119 guy like me? Is it does keep saying stuff because it makes sense to 1441 01:35:54.199 --> 01:35:57.039 you? Or do you want to make appeals to my world view, my 1442 01:35:57.199 --> 01:36:00.640 understanding of science, my understanding of history, my understanding of politics, in 1443 01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:03.239 order to make something to be true. Because your worldview is so different from 1444 01:36:03.279 --> 01:36:05.680 mine, I have no idea how I could connect there. I have no 1445 01:36:05.800 --> 01:36:10.399 idea how I could incorporate any of your ideas into what I already believe. 1446 01:36:11.359 --> 01:36:15.159 So good luck to you question. You have to demonstrate things, and this 1447 01:36:15.359 --> 01:36:17.520 is you often see this in conspiracy and Dan, you know a lot about 1448 01:36:17.560 --> 01:36:21.479 conspiracy theories. Being the producer and the host I people want to do deal 1449 01:36:21.600 --> 01:36:25.399 with it a little bit more than we do over here. But you know, 1450 01:36:25.800 --> 01:36:30.840 the thing about conspiracy theories is you start with something like and that's a 1451 01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:34.800 popular one, NASA is lying to us, And rather than demonstrating that that's 1452 01:36:34.880 --> 01:36:41.600 the case, because there is no reason in claims like that one that we've 1453 01:36:41.680 --> 01:36:45.239 just heard, there is no way to demonstrate that's the case because it's not 1454 01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:48.479 the case. So instead of simply demonstrating it is the case, which is 1455 01:36:48.600 --> 01:36:51.760 what we should be doing if we're trying to convince someone it's a case, 1456 01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:56.199 we have to start layering up and layering up, and what we get is 1457 01:36:56.239 --> 01:37:01.039 a runaway train effect of more elaborate story always to try and justify the one 1458 01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:05.800 before it, and that's how these kind of deep conspiracy theories start. And 1459 01:37:06.840 --> 01:37:11.439 it's why that's so difficult to kind of the people who were kind of call 1460 01:37:11.560 --> 01:37:14.359 up in them. It's why it's so difficult to get them out of them, 1461 01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:16.039 because it's not just a case of saying, well, look at this 1462 01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:20.640 one thing. There were les built upon les upon les, each trying to 1463 01:37:20.760 --> 01:37:26.439 justify the one before it. Yep, I agree with that. And folks, 1464 01:37:26.520 --> 01:37:29.399 we are getting to the end of the show. But if you like 1465 01:37:29.760 --> 01:37:31.439 what you see and you want to keep watching, Richard and I are going 1466 01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:35.520 to go on the after show for the Atheists metivaunst to discord. You should 1467 01:37:35.640 --> 01:37:40.319 go to that tie dot cc slash a CD discords, a fan run discord 1468 01:37:40.439 --> 01:37:42.760 server, and both of us are going to be hanging out today. You 1469 01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:45.960 get it to first, so check that out, and of course check out 1470 01:37:45.079 --> 01:37:49.600 the Nonprofits which is going to be streaming right after this show is completed. 1471 01:37:50.159 --> 01:37:53.439 Let me see if there's anything else I need to say here. Of course 1472 01:37:53.479 --> 01:37:57.000 you gotta like and subscribe, right, That's that's that's standard fair. This 1473 01:37:57.199 --> 01:38:00.079 is YouTube after all, or you're listening to it in podcast form, in 1474 01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:01.479 which case you can find other ways support us, but hey, please like 1475 01:38:01.520 --> 01:38:05.079 to subscribe, Please help us out with the Patreon. Consider becoming a member 1476 01:38:05.279 --> 01:38:09.159 if you like UH, and go to the Facebook page if you want to 1477 01:38:09.199 --> 01:38:14.079 talk to other folks who liked this show UH and want to see more of 1478 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:16.960 this kind of content. So let's go to the crewcamp, to the folks 1479 01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:20.560 who helped make this show happen every single week. We'll give him a shout 1480 01:38:20.600 --> 01:38:25.000 out and to thank you for all of our support and for just putting up 1481 01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:28.239 with us, quite frankly, because you know behind the scenes, I mean, 1482 01:38:28.399 --> 01:38:30.960 Richard not to talk shit, but kind of a diva. I mean 1483 01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:33.239 he's like, he's like lighting has to be perfect. He's like, I 1484 01:38:33.560 --> 01:38:38.359 need the ACA to order one hundred cans of mountain dew just so I can 1485 01:38:38.399 --> 01:38:40.800 get through a show. I mean, ever since he became producer, he 1486 01:38:40.920 --> 01:38:44.800 just thinks I will not eat blue smarts. You can take you won't smarties. 1487 01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:47.319 That's the whole thing. Any any crewcamp, crewcamp today, for the 1488 01:38:47.359 --> 01:38:54.279 crew there, we wonderful little bit people help in making this show happen every 1489 01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:58.279 single week. And last but not least, we have to thank you guys, 1490 01:38:58.439 --> 01:39:01.039 the viewers, because you are the ones who make the show happen. 1491 01:39:01.119 --> 01:39:03.760 We couldn't have a show without you. Let's get some love ring out there 1492 01:39:03.880 --> 01:39:08.960 for that, if we can activating love ring lasers. See, this is 1493 01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:12.520 actually how you know that we aren't real? Did you know that we're a 1494 01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:15.960 reflection? Because look at these love rings? They come out in a circle 1495 01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:17.920 right, kind of like if you threw a stone in a lake. So 1496 01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:21.479 maybe we're actually the reflection Richard? Do you ever think of that? I'm 1497 01:39:21.520 --> 01:39:25.880 convinced that's it. We have got more. I got more of where that 1498 01:39:25.960 --> 01:39:28.560 comes from. But we're out of time. We got to end the show 1499 01:39:28.720 --> 01:39:31.119 today. Whether or not you believe, if you're an essential worker, we 1500 01:39:31.239 --> 01:39:34.840 want to thank you. If you don't believe, this is your community. 1501 01:39:35.039 --> 01:39:39.720 If you do believe, we don't hate you. We all just melts convinced. 1502 01:39:39.920 --> 01:39:42.079 Thanks a lot, everybody. We'll see you next time, see you, 1503 01:39:42.199 --> 01:40:00.840 next time. We want the truth. So watch True one at five 1504 01:40:00.159 --> 01:40:05.279 Friday at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc, slash y t tw 1505 01:40:05.640 --> 01:40:11.199 and call into the show at five one two nine nine one nine two four 1506 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:15.680 two, or connect to the show online at tiny dot cc slash call tw