Welcome to the Seafood Matters Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Cowie. In
each episode, I speak with industry leaders, fishery scientists, fishermen and seafood
chefs. Will highlight the importance of seafood in our daily lives, economy and
environment. Whether you catch your own seafood, love cooking it, or want
to learn more about where your fish comes from, you'll find it all here
on the Seafood Matter's podcast. If you enjoy this episode, hit subscribe,
share it with a friend, or leave a five star review, and you
can get in touch with me by visiting seafoodmatterspodcast dot com. Alan Addison Skipper's
Venture four, which fishes out of loud Bervie and Scrubster. In this episode,
we discuss the controversial fishing practices of foreign own boats landing in the UK,
and Alan highlights how they wilfully damage the seabed and accurate stock assessment.
Exploring the complexities of quota regulations, Alan suggests a new approach which he believes
might reduce the growing frustration in the way or government handles quota management and the
activities of foreign owned boats in UK waters. Welcome to Seafood Matters, Alan
Addison, it's great to see you on the show. Can I start by
asking you firstly, when you're leaving the harbor, what is in your mind?
I know you have a business to run and you've got to make a
profit and pay the crew wages. How do you balance between a getting enough
fish, looking for new grounds and maybe new species, and thinking of the
future as well, where you don't want to overfish in the area. Oh,
just exactly what you said that it's a balance and arct I mean sometimes
leaving how I can be quite easy, you've got a plan in your head
and you're kind of thinking out where you're going and just be by your previous
knowledge. At other times quite tricky, especially when like later on in the
year when CODEA problems of restrictions can I kick in and you've got to try
and balance with CODA. You've got to cotch where you've got to catch it
this time of year, whether it's a big deciding factor. You don't want
to go to an area that you think there's fish, but you can't get
fished for the weather, So there's there's a multitude of things go through your
head when you leave the harbor. Normally you'll have a plan in your head
or a few plants in your head and hope the first one works and you
don't have to end up blond, d u E and f for things like
that. Normally it's there is certain times you'll leave the harbor and you're just
really haven't got much of a clue where you're going. You'll just kind of
think about it when you're steaming off. But normally it's pretty you've got a
plan and whether a plan works, and usually the first plan doesn't work and
you've got to go to the plan by pretty rapidly. M season seasonal at
the seasons must come in to play a lot with you guys. But it's
a major fuck are the seasonsuse? I mean likes I just now there's been
there's been good fishing a cord around about the Faerial area south of Shetland,
and that's just because the fisher falling the market all the market boats are now
west of the butt Luis, so the fish will befall in the marcrol markrol
boats. So that's a seasonal thing. Also, when the when the hoddocks
come to spawn, that's another time that that's a seasonal day thing as well.
Once I spawned, they're going to be so good to eat, so
that in the merchants of fisher thins the merchants the prices reduced. So that's
the time that you try and avoid cutching hoddocks because it's just wasting a resource.
Coming on pointing now it's March kind of time. The end of February,
start of March, it's just gonna come out the time that would start
fishing the deep water west of Hebrides, and that would probably probably fish through
there March April and may sometimes in the dune depending on the in the cart
Straits, and then that's usually a tailed off. I'll probably try it again
in November, but usually during December January February we're on white fish, just
purely because of the weather unpredictability of the weather. You need well forever size
I bought. You need well for any size I boat. You need relatively
decent weather conditions for fish and deep WoT arm during January February, March December,
January February, it's usually the case that you get a settled week so
you can go and prosecute that fishery. I used to always when my restaurant
had on, I used to open see the customers. The fantastic thing about
the Scottish fishery was there's over the whole twelve months of the year, there's
always a fish for every dish, and a dish for every season because maybe
the spawning cycle would start in the North Sea and then go west and it
was always the role was something in season, whether it was a sea area
or a species, they're always I think it was fantastic that there was always
a fishing season. Mm hmm, yeah, I totally agree. That's why
it was something to target and to try and harvest. It's usually usually when
usually when they're in season, that's when the price of uces. It's just
a supplying demand market. So usually when they're in season, the first guys
that get them will be get the best to ever turn for their efforts.
That as time goes on and usually the market forces dictate that the price ga
slips back and normal services resumed. How would that command taking that on board?
How would that command looking for new grounds and new species, different different
species for different markets. Because I'm right, all I know, I'm right
and saying you've been at the forefront of a lot of that pioneering by the
deep water. It's it's it came really because I necessity with the boats sparking
the late eighties and early nineties, so you're speaking thirty years almost forty years
ago. Now the boats had to diversify into the deep water because of the
lock of fishing opportunities on or in the decline in stocks a whitefish. So
that was going to just as I was going to start in a skipper and
career was in the early nineties and with Peter Smith and the ambassador and that
was one of his one of the few starting. A few guys wanted to
expand into the deep boat of the French fleet. It had been there previously,
they had been before us maybe five or ten years, so they had
that they had an established market for the fish. So it wasn't as if
it was going to be a marketing problem we would have ever caught because there
was a market there for it, and it's mainly in France and Spain.
So with that in mind, the boats started to prosecute the deep water fisher
eat and initially it would be mainly for monk fish, and then of course
there's blue line and black scarboard and tusk and the less a factor going into
years and one will At one point I would have been seeky Portuguese dogfish,
but theirs when I was restricted landing list now so we can't land them.
So the deep water really came out, and this necessity it was as the
boats the fleet at the time we weren't really capable could they could prosecuted,
but the one are really capable to fish it safely. So there was a
fleet of boat it's built in the early mid nineties, just especially for going
deep water certain times a year. And as I say, well, it's
just as you correctly pointed of being really fished the deep water. Unfortunately,
IM probably one of the oldest lads left and still doing it. So I've
probably probably the most experienced of a deep water over the period of time that
the Scottish fleet have been fishing it. You're comment there had been thinking of
my dear old late mother Alan. She'sed to say, necessity is the mother
of invention. It always is. It's a great, great thing to encourage
you to try new things. Yeah, obviously the expense of running a fishing
boat, you can't just go wild and just say right them away to try
something, you've got to pay your way and you know so you must,
you must do it gradually and working away at new areas. You see when
you are amongst fish, what kind of decide whether you feel thinking of rather
than fish it out? And I know you're and a lot of the Scottish
fleet are very responsible. How would you address the fact that you felt right
when when you know there's enough, you'll leave it to rest or. Oh,
it's it's usually I guess supplying demand or your quota restricts you. Usually
you can see it. You can see it per whole if you're fish in
an area and then the whole start to get progressively poor or less yield per
whole, and you just know it's instinctive. You just know it's time to
just leave this and just move on and try something else. We spoke briefly
about this last week when I spoke to you, and I was thinking about
it and trying new areas. It's it's easy when you're when you're quite confident.
It gets harder when things on the work and so right, and you
are if you're cut, if you've been catching fish and your holes partly full
of fish. You will go and try different things. But if you're it's
been a struggle of a trip, you're going to find a fish. The
fish aren't there. You're the encouraged to go and try different areas because it's
a gamble, and it's sometimes gomble just isn't worth taking it. As I
said, it's a confidence thing. If you feel that you're constantly making their
own decision or constantly struggling to cutch a fish. The thought I go in
and try new areas or damaging gear, that's just something easy I think I
would if you are quite confident in your ability and you've been catching fish,
and normally a personal level, I would try a new area at the start
of a trip to get out of my mind. So if it comes off,
it's it's a bonus because you're there. Or at the end of a
trip when I've got or hopefully got more catch on board and they didn't.
We spend a few holes at the end of a trip just going to be
exploring a new area, so it's you're going to be setting yourself up for
another trip or in the future. That's it. It's good you're thinking all
the time the crew did I really like that. They didn't mind it to
the starter trip, they didn't. I like it at the end of a
trip because that's when you can sometimes the gear damage or things like got from
your exploring new areas. So the cure and not just over enthusiastic about my
my, my game play. That's interesting you say that, Alan, because
that's obviously taking another factor into the cost of going into new areas, because
if you're not just quite aware of the sea beds, like you could do
expensive damage to your gear. Oh, you can quite easily do a lot
of damage to your gears, right if you're in if you're unaware of your
too and on or an obstruction or just bad bottom or a multitude of reasons
why you could be damage to your gear. No, there's a there's a
cost to that as well. If you if you did a lot of damage,
badly damaged a med where would that becauseting you? You mean how much
of value was could be anything up to anything from ten to thousand pounds.
That just depends on good This is that right? So I mean I damaged
trolly ten. If you use to lose a troll, you're surobably speaking thirty
maybe more way if you have troll doers and sensors, and if quick we
are two in our gear, what we're doing is is a rough approximation would
be about one hundred thousand pounds that you've got in the bottom any one time,
probably slightly more than that. So he didn't know where really want to
be damaging or losing any of that kind of kit. It just makes you
think it miss Hopefully it'll make the public think and realize the old saying there's
no such thing as cheap fish, because with the cost of what you're saying
there, with gear and the risking the live factor, should that's a price
of fish. No, that's right all but just even yesterday or I had
a faeryeaese boat had taken quite a big boat for the seven meters had taken
a like a rogue wave and I was twelve of the crew were rescued.
But are still two crew me mis sensor, That's that's a true cost.
Yeah. Yeah, when you're talking about the grounds and that somebody with your
experience been fishing a good lot of years. What's your view on the health
of our fishing grounds the stocks at present? I would say healthy, they're
being fished sustainably by the UK commercial fleet or white fish fleet. One of
the the biggest contributing for us to our biggest things that I've got a concern
about just now is the static gearboats, the girl nets in the line of
Yeah, that's that's my by far my biggest concern with the health of the
stocks and the the in the North Sea on the west coast there, they're
just their efforts increasing year and year, whether it be by number of boats,
are just the days, the time they're spending at sea. In the
last three to five years we've seen a massive increase in their effort, both
Spanish and what's Norwegians that's them back end just now, and it's the Norwegians
are big boats and they're freezing their freezing capabilities, are spending a lot of
time at sea. And no, it's the the if we're fishing on the
edge, the shelf edge, we'll pick up anything from one ton to five
tons are discarded lost disused gill net or longline gear per trip. So if
we're thirty trips a year, you're speaking anything for thirty to one hundred and
fifty tons a debris we're picking up off the bottom. That's one boat that's
us. It's us individually, and there's a fleet of Scottish boats then exactly
saying picking up this static gear that's been as been lost or disregarded. Now
we're not fished a gears disregarded. When we retrieve our troll off the bottom,
that's it. That's stop fishing. We're fishing has stopped for that day
or for that whole night. Guys lose a net, they lose a gill
net or a long line that continues to fish unrestricted forever until somebody goes and
picks it up. So that's to me that that's the biggest problem we've got
on the stocks just now, is this static gearboats and the influx of them
into the our wars. They've always been there, there's all has been a
fleet to them, but it just seems to be this last three to five
years. That impact is impact in the stocks that we traditionally fish. We
see it in monk, we've seting, hake, and we see in length
Now that's the three species that they would target mainly at that boats, and
that's the stocks that we are seeing. They're healthy, but they've been healthier.
That is alarming and just outrageous, Alan when you say that that tonnage
of debris, and the thing that really grates with me on top of that
is from a shore side obviously as you know many times and scrubs there and
a lot of that what I would call non UK fishing boats with long lane
and kilnet they land there, a lot of them land there and what I
think is it is really unacceptable, Allen. I do see lots of Scottish
boats, as you say, putting all that disused gear ashore, but I
never see them putting it ashore. Oh No, It's the galling thing for
us as well as is that the the Spanish, especially the Spanish fleet are
mainly owned by the company owned boats and they've been very clever and the way
that they have marketed their fish other method efficient to the to the the green
eng Us, they've been very clever to market. It's a sustainable way efficient,
it's a healthy way efficient. They're not doing any damage to seabed.
They've got boycots and things like us. Whereas the paint of the troller or
the mobile fleet it's a bad thing or damage in the sea bed. Yet
we pick up their gear and sometimes you'll haul their gear. We dead birds
in it, dead mammals in it. So it's it's definitely an a solution
to fishing within a parameter app How could I put it like bottom damage or
things like that. I mean even the hooks and still damages the bottom puts
on the bottom. So it's but they've been very clever to be able to
portray it as this really sustainable way of fishing and environmentally friendly. And the
green groups have obviously been suck dom weight paid off bat and so they've they've
taken it in board as well. That's what really grades with me as well.
And I remember getting a statistic from Brussels. We were still in the
YOU at the time, so it's a few years ago now, and they
reckoned with an EU orders which was including us the UK at the time.
Over the course of a year there was half a million they called it sea
mammals that could be wader, bird seals, anything like that. Half a
million just killed between Gilnet and Long Lane. And yet and yet they can
sell it to the NGOs that it's sustainable. Yeah, yeah, I just
never could work it a it's it's it's the method of fishing as well.
And then they same to fishing parks and there'll be five or six of them
and just go to one area and they'll just if they get if they do
get fish, and they'll just fish out the area out until it's just like
a desert so it's just dryer fish and then move on to the next bit.
And that doesn't And then as far as I see, I mean like
west West, I sn't Kilda. They used to fish there in the two
hundred fathoms. This has been bark ten twelve years ago, and we would
be steaming out past the mayor gunt Rock all or going to the deep water.
It was like steaming through a village of boats. It was just like
a town of lights. You when I see a boat there now when you
can't see any fish, they've just fished it out terrible. And is there
any hope with the fishermen that and after the five years after Brexit that there'll
be anything done about that. I think there's plenty of hope, But whether
there's a whether hope comes a reality, I severely doubt it. There seems
to be no that seems to we need direction on need passion for the Scottish
government at the moment to do anything about it. I mean there's been as
you fully seen the press, there's been gear conflict with the mobile boats and
some of the Spanish fleet up west of Shetland, and the government seems to
be a loss how to control it for the day about and it's in the
MCA. They just say it's it's it's out with their realms are controlling so
as it starts just now, it's almost like a wild West and the Spanish
condefy went if they went to try and follow your propeller, if they went
to try and Rambia, there's nothing. I mean even with video footage or
phone footage, there's absolutely nothing seems to be able to be done about it.
Is it's ridiculous. It's always became like a land grab at sea at
the moment. I mean, the guys going they just grab a diary areas
yes as ours, and that's it you get here. I mean, it's
just just for instance, last week the Norwegian Gilnet fleet have just got access
into the UK waters just in a puff a few weeks the dinner deal at
the end of January, and so there was three or four large new state
of the art Norwegian giral neetboats fishing west of Shetlands where we were fishing last
week and we're fishing the area and the guy came down and he asked me
what the area I was fishing in. So I gave my box so he
could keep clear and then he Announcedeve's got to shoot his gear right in the
middle of my box the box I gave him. I was like, that's
that's the area it is. I know you went to fish here, but
I went to fish here too. That is mendality. After I had actually
giving him the box to stay clear of. In the end he did move
because he said, well, if you shoot there, you gotta lose your
gear because we'll just i'ma shift. But that was this mendality. I mean,
it's almost like a bully. They know as soon as they put their
started gear into the water, they've their rights are stronger than our rights for
being I'm mobile boat, even though we've been there before them. It's ridiculous,
that's really it is outrageous. But as I say, the government of
the authority seem powerless or that doesn't seem any well to do anything about it.
I don't know if they have the appetite for it. And that goes
back a long time. Alan. I remember we won an award. You
wonder where I'm coming from here. We won an award in the restaurant.
The Times phoned me and they wanted to do an article. So I was
standing in the restaurant at the conservatory looking out, and the Endeavor was going
to see he'd landed his fash and he was good back out, David,
and the Endeavor was sailing out and the tight. The guy in the time
system me, what's your views on the over fishing and the sustainability factor.
I says, Well, if you want my views, I'll tell you.
I says. I'm just standing here speaking to you in my restaurant looking over
the harbor, and one of the most modern effiicient fishing boats in the Scottish
fleet is just leaving the harbor going to the fishing grounds. I said,
I would be far, far more concerned about the future of the fishing and
the sustainability if I heard there was a politician going to negotiate than ever.
I feel concerned about watching this modern boat going to the fishing grounds. Yeah,
I know, it's it's frustrating for us. That's my biggest is a
compart to your original questions. My biggest concern for the assessment of the stock.
And it appears that there's there's a lot of the fish that are being
caught by that fleet that are going unregulated or unobserved in the trucks and in
a way, whether it does been a record of them, they're never monitored
doesn't appear so now no, so I've even heard. I have not officially,
but I've even heard, and I hope it's not true that Marine Scotland
accept the monitoring by their agent. So the teacher marking his own homework or
the prisoner got his looking after his own key. Yeah, it's a armin
Alan. Have you have you any thoughts about how what could be done to
aim primarily to make it better for the fishing grounds because they are cutting their
own throats as well. Well, that's for sure. Well, I mean
they well like the last week, a lot of the boats didn't sail because
there was no fish. Really, I was knowing fish because because I've got
them, it's there. They did. You seem to go to the same
areas. Can I said that? Now I'm moving into like show the air,
but I'm guessing that's them just I when you see them in a shoal
of water. They're now they're now doing a bit like what we did from
went to deep water. They're experimenting to see if there's fish there, and
the hand of expanders the fishing opportunities are looking. Look two different areas to
cutch because they're traditional gowns of the white clean. Yeah, it's the And
do you feel there's people in our industry that are addressing it or trying to
trying to get it across. There has been between the Shetland Organization and Marian
Whitefish. There's been mediums and there's been directive set up, and there's been
this corridor so the mobile boats can get towed between them and having their Spanish
boats having their gear marked. And it's never ever really came. It's such
a prickly subject. Nobody really wants to take it on because the solutions like
it's almost like an never ended cycle. Where do you stop? But how
do we start? It's Nebby really wants to get involved, Nobe wants to
touch it, to be once waking. Yeah, yeah, I know that
from a previous podcast with Mike Park. He's not overly enthusiastic that the bricks
and negotiations are going to make un huge in road And did I think,
Mike, I just think it's it's by the time the five years come,
there'll be no appetite to for anything to change with our own government, or
they wouldn't be up for anything of fight because there has be a turno turmoil
with themselves just now. So I think after the five years, it'll just
be like the state of school, they'll just be ays and arm Ideally,
I mean, what we thought was going to happen, take take control of
our road waters. We could have been able to limit the amount of boats
that was static gear or we could have controlled that. But look, so
that's the second happened. And and do you actually obviously you know the grounds
and when you're talking about wests and killed, I would view Alan Addison's view
Ostes and killed Jim Cowey and his back garden. Do you actually feel that
that's there's no fish there and there's a little hope that fisher return there the
areas that guys have been working h I would say, because the hen I
really fish there now for a lot of years, five or six years,
and you'll see the oil boat and trying it and it doesn't last long when
he comes back back east because I fish there, so to me, I
can I just finished that area. I think it's interesting talking to you about
that, Alan, because it's been a fisherman. You obviously know with the
trends of weather boats, the way they're thinking and why they're doing things.
Well, you just get, you get, you get used to all.
Even now see with the a S and everybody you can see everybody in the
a S. So it's just experience. You have an idea what they're kind
of cotch there or why they're going there to cotch and if they if they
aren't, they are long they've either they haven't caught anything or the fishing has
been fantastic. But the afishing is fantastic. We go back again, but
it's never usually go back again. They'll leave it a few months before the
de Troy it again. And from speaking to a number of the Scottish fishermen,
I believe they can be very aggressive and as you say, and Cans
have even heard the boats being surrounded completely. Either can be if you if
you to anywhere near the gear, or they'll come towards I want more than
one, and I'll come towards you and can try and intimidate. Hey,
I get it. They didn't want to lose our gea, but likewise we
did. I want to tow through their gear because usually if you tour through
their gear, it disrupts our haul down it stop fishing. If we pick
up their gear, it disrupts our holes when we've end up hauling, so
it's lost time for us as well. So it's like it's of course as
we didn't I want to be able to haul a gear earlier or damage damage
their gear intentionally. But they know they can be quite intimidating and that's going
that's going five meters. They can be quite intimidating when there's a few of
them, when they go yeah yeah, well, I mean look at that
walking in case with the Alison k when they obviously there's a video of them,
they actually could have caused serious damage and very little was done about it.
Well, that same boat when the Diaries waters and the something similar and
he ended up in court. So the Irish were more up for the fight
than the UK. I strict to the guy, the Irish guys go and
there was one just lately with the Levick was in defiance and defiant when the
Levick boats he had the incident and the same again it was it was a
close court a situation and he hid it and he'd videoed it or some of
the guys's video in the phone. So to me, it was a it
was a black white case that the guys who doctored intimidating monarch. But like
like again, there's just nothing seems to happen. Terrible. See previous podcasts.
We've had some icy scientists and Mike Park as well, and they reckon
that the younger generation of scientists are putting a lot of credence and that to
work and get information from and with fishermen. Do you find that could be
encouraging? It would be encourage It would be encouraging if it was true.
I kind of scene I witnessed any any increase in scientific collaboration with the fishing
industry in the last few years. To me, the fisherman's knowledge is a
resource that's being wasted every year. It's wasted. I've done scientific trips before.
We I wasn't I was on the scotiaft trip as a few years ago.
Now a deep water trip in both scientific observers away and ago in the
same week or the same two weeks a year to the same location, and
I get the win the time series. So that's why they're doing it.
But fish fish acting trends. But their trends are necessary specific because they're going
to rock up the same week every year. There's a load of variables.
You've got tide, you've got environment, you've got weather, you've got feeding.
So I mean that survey is a week early, a week late,
or two weeks earlier, two weeks late, and they've got mister fish or
so. It hasn't helped us much in the last thirty forty years science.
If anything, that's hindered the scientific effort. And yet to me, we're
the fishermen. There's fishermen on the grounds seven days a week, fifty two
weeks a year. Yet our knowledge, our experience, isn't it taken into
consideration. It's never asked for, it's never We've tried through various methods,
through like monkfish tollybooks of things like given the scientist our information what we've got,
But we're seeing it's never used, it's collaborated, it's it's never enough
or they never trust us enough is believe it, and that's frustrated. It's
got to be. It's got to be, especially when it's responsible guys like
yourself that are looking to the future stocks and as many fishermen of open said,
what's why wouldn't we do it sustainably or want to do it sustainably?
Is when you think of the investment and money and time and future and taking
families and why would have scot this fishermen not wanting to do it sustainably?
Well, it's that, I mean, this sea is important to me,
it's my Lifely would so we provide for my family. It's been a tradition
through my family for generations. Why why would I they wanted to be continued
for future generations? Why would I want me? Why would I want like
to be the last fisherman? Does make sense? Maybe that's maybe that's a
small, small village community mindset. I'm not sure, but that's a mindset
that there is totally. I'm right with you there one hundred percent. The
whether what they're saying is the new generation, whether they're not completely through yet
that they're that there. It sound sounded very encouraging to me. I must
ask again, because from what you're saying there definitely Jim, I as I
say, but as you saying, maybe this new scientist on the through yet
or but as I say, for a personal point of view, I have
seen I haven't seen any increase scientific activity or being asked or anybody showing any
more interesting what the fishermen are doing or what we're seeing or landing or to
my knowledge it isn't there. Nothing's changed for years. I totally get where
you're coming from. There when you see nothing changing, and even on the
way they get their find their statistics. Because even in a situation where I
know from my cousin of mine who you know, Davy from Helmsdilli and the
Board of Banilly over fifty years ago, there was the Marine Lab got in
touch with them. They wanted to do some put somebody out scientist out with
him and do a haddack survey. And he says to them, you'll not
get Hardrick. Just now, he says, where you're going to fish this
time of the year. He says, you're not going to get a haddache.
Oh, we need to go. We need to go, And so
they went and they didn't get a haadache. And he always felt annoyed and
frustrated that if that data was being used while it wasn't accurate, because and
he told them that, Well that was about fifty years ago. Last year,
I was talking to somebody in Shetland who was telling me almost exactly the
same scientists phoned they wanted to do a herring survey and got in touch with
one of the logics and in Jetland what they go and the skipper says to
them, you won't get hearing just now. And he says, you won't
get it where you're going, where you're wanting to go, No, no,
we need to go. So within fifty years, two different species,
the exact situation, and they didn't get hearing the same as what Davy told
them. They didn't get harded fifty years before that. Well, you can
see, you can see my frustration. Say, the actual the actual fisherman's
voice is rarely listened to, and as a major stakeholder on the whole thing,
in fact fully the main stakeholder, it's a travesty. Wudn't they did
not listen to the fishermen tell them and to be to be honest, it
wouldn't be allowed in any other industry that I wouldn't been another industry going that
the major stakehold older. Hasn't he got a voice or isn't it listened to?
Yeah, yeah, no, it's I can I can completely understand your
frustration, and I know where you're coming from, and I know you're genuine
and I've known you a long time so I know you as a person.
But also, as you know, I'm speaking to dozens of fishermen, Scottish
fishermen over the course of the months and years and scrabs it and there's not
one of them speaking anyways different to what you're saying. So even you could
say, well he would say that, but you can't because there are dozens
of saying the exact same thing. So everybody is not wrong. No,
that's all. It would be the point a lion, if it was the
point of telling untruth. That's the way it is. It's you'd be said,
you'd be found out pretty quick if you were, if you were making
up a story that wasn't it true? That that's the longest short this is
true. I mean, just what you're saying, I mean we did like
a monk survey and the one they wanted to hear a hole off Buda Lewis
on the hard bottom and brought hard bodom the monks and I live there.
When I get up, you could to the different Now the Christmas time,
you'll never see a monk there. But that's that was the position and that's
where they wanted to shoot. You're like, what's the point of this?
Okay for his story, it was nice that we're doing a survey that was
a boat doing a a monk for servis a few years ago. Now,
in one of the positions he was told to shoot was actually on land.
That's how that's how much that's how much in depth had its actually been done
into this And he says, I'm not shooting there on the sign that said
why not? He says, what's on the land. So there you go.
A pity that wasn't exposed. I think I maybe need to get the
efficient news order that one. Well, well that's just And do you feel
going back to the same action speaks louder than words. Do you think there's
my legion that if they were practicing what they preach Allen, would it be
my legion it for you guys and for the for the mis stokes if cooperation
fishermen definitely must be, has to be. I mean, this is a
fishermen are the major stakeholder. We've got the biggest, we've got the most
to win or lose. But it's a scientists are controlling how much we can
catch. So surely if we're involved, that's a good thing. Has to
be a good thing. I mean, if you've got one one body dictating
or how could I put it, implement in our shape and how much fish
are out the cuts without the input of the major stakeholders, it must be
wrong. It must be better to hey, a bit call collaboration between the
scientists and the fishing industry and a share and a knowledge. Definitely. Yeah.
Even another podcast we did with Michael Kaiser of Herriot Watt University. At
one stage, after listening for a while, I says, Michael, I
says, I just don't get this. I can't understand what There's a break
down somewhere in the process the system. Because it says you talk about wanting
to speak to fisherman, I says, I speak to lots and lots of
fishermen all the time, and I says, they're desperate to speak to you.
I said, so, what is it not happening? Mm hmm,
I'm going sure. It's like it's like monkfisher class this daughta poor. They
have been for as long as I know. Yet in the nineteen nineties when
I was with Peter Peter Smith, we were handing our log sheets into the
fishing office and booket so they could monitor for monk fish who are London.
It's forty years ago. I mean, how much data doesn't need It's ridiculous.
Stell Coss is da data poor stock the most daughta. It's a lot
of the surveys they're doing, and they've done over the years. Yeah,
it's still classes daughta poor. And it's so for me to get the fisher
to get the fishermen and the scientists to work more together, that'll be a
massive thing for the industry, huge thing, the biggest step forward from our
generation. If it would if it would work, But for reasons one beknown
to me, fishermen aren't trusted. There's an element that mistrust between the scientific
and likewise it's vice versa. We did not trust them because their figures didn't
agree with we are saying away beaking. I think there's a bit of politics
can evolved with the figures that ICs can out being and then obviously they felt
it at TC, So it's both ways. But I get the feeling that
FISHERM and I clost is like CLASSUS rogues and we're trying to work the system
and everything benefits for cell. And to be fair, that was maybe true
in the past, but the way things are nowadays, the fleets, the
white even the white fish fleet US is so streamlined, US so few boats,
and everything's mere a professional operation looking for look into the future, I
think the boom bust beyond the days of the seventies and eighties that will never
come bark, and that mentality I'll never come bark. We often describe to
people now, but you used to see a fisherman. We saw a fisherman
in the past. This is what you see now is a businessman m the
successful boats. The businessmen are good at it. Well, it's it's it's
not just a catching of fishes, it's that's everything that goes along with it.
It's kind as you've sent yourself to me al and that's why they call
it the fishing and not the catches. Well, that's say that's true.
Going back with the n g os, have you had any views on which
I totally have to say before and maybe shouldn't say that, but I totally
disagree with it. But you get the Marine Conservation Society on their website,
you'll see a good Fish guide and there's a traffic light system. Red.
It's our stock that's poor, poorly poor stalk and it shouldn't be eaten at
all, touched amber it's not too bad, so you can eat it in
moderation. Green is sustainable and you can eat it a pretty clear conscience.
I've just I told them myself direct to them as well. I just feel
fish conservation is far more complex and to put it down to three colors,
well, initially I would I would question for the collect their data FAF is
it is it ices that are getting the statistics fair or is it Landing's So
I'd be very skeptical where the where the sourced their information to generate this traffic
light Ices of the ICY scientists have told me on the previous podcast that it's
them they get their data from it's I used to get the data from Okay,
it's there was an example on their website which I and it's just funny
from not funny but obvious from what you've been saying already about the data,
poor monkfish and gil Neet and the damage that it does to the future of
the seabeds, and that they described monkfish in their amber light and said it's
slow growing. It just to be in moderation. It's slow growing. But
we they advised that if you were eating monkfish, go with a sure monk
fows that's been Gilnet cought. Okay, so there were that there you go.
It's it's that's just I spoke about earlier the the Gilnet companies being very
clever and being able to whether it's through being clever, crafty, or just
financial rewards, have managed to infiltrate the green groups and manage to model their
thinking or positioned their way of thinking. That's a prime example of it.
Three weeks. I mean, how how is that mature gil neet caught monk
any more sustainable after we've just spoken about than a monk caught by a mobile
boat. It's just makes sense. I mean regarding the trafflic system after years
a misinformation, I'd be very dubious. That's traffic lights system. I mean
what we'll remember the one hundred cod in the North Sea cod left and the
North Sea story the Guardian printed about ten years ago, and it's just it's
just not true. It's just that's near the industry would put up with mischief's
been publicly printed and and NAT challenge it's ridiculous. That's true. That's true,
and that that is historic as well. That that part of it,
because I can remember even my foot when my father was at sea, and
that was the sixties, and he used to he used to say the same
thing, and he said, the biggest problem we had then was it was
the fishing was such a small part of the GDP. It it would be
a major part of the coastal communities economy of of them, but it was
such a small percentage to the gross the GDP in the UK that it didn't
get the voice or the ears it should get. That was in the sixties.
That's the sixties. I suppose to say, you have plenty of politicians
landowners, but you've never a politician where a shareholder a fish indoate, so
that there's obviously there's allegiances are towards them other things in the fish the fishing
industry, they know about the with with the scientists and view the way.
I often think it must be an absolute mindfield for you guys when you're recording
the data when every operation, when you're hauling your gear and you've you've got
what's good? Is it when the fish with what fish goes down to the
fish room? Is that what you record? And how d'ye record it?
Because aye. One of the questions I put to Mark Dickie Coolis, the
Icy scientist, was as is right, we're on rock All, we're on
the boat or boat in rock All, we're hauling the net. It's one
net, one sea area. We've got cord, haddock and monkfish on board
and when it comes to they all go together in the fish room. They've
all come out of the same fishing grounds. But when it goes on to
the log sheet to be recorded, they have to go down for different see
areas. One species would go down for rock All and another would be west
of Scotland. And whether it's a buck pass or not, I don't know,
but he says, oh, that's a manager's problem. Well, I
would say he's incorrect. It's it's the problem if he's if he's if he's
affair the code of managers, it's it's the management problem. That problem lies
squarely at the feed of the skipper or the owner, each individual skipper owner,
depending on his code allocation or for any given species for any given area,
that will that's their problem. It will vary in soize for each skipper
boat to boat and further fishing. And the problem is quote allocation you've got
for whatever species you're cutting. So it's if he's speaking about code of managers,
it's the manager's problem. There they manager stop the quote and allocated to
the boats and where the boats cuts it, and that's a skipper's problem.
Yeah, it's a scooper's problem. But yeah, that's what I mean it
is because I just felt when he's sitting about the manager's problem that was in
how where it should be recorded and and and for sort of quota purposes.
But I just felt, well, the s fisherman that's catching it, he
could end up breaking the law or something that just doesn't make sense. See
ices to the ices are they're treading a fine line. As far as I
was aware, ICES was an advisory body, but they're to me, they're
now crossing the line at the managing at times that there's the advice they're given
and they're almost wanted to manage the stock rather and just advise the managers.
Lately, I feel that there's are treading a very fine line. Ices the
podcast with this Mark Dickie Coolis. I asked him that very question and I
said a concern, a real concern with fishermen that ICES are meant to have
to be an advisory role, but they're getting more and more involved in management.
You know what his answer was, I completely agree with you. So
what you're saying there is exactly what other fishermen Bill Allen, and that's an
icy scientist accepting it. So it's get really quite alarming when you think of
the impact. I mean, how would you would you going back to this
when you're logging fish in an area that must be a minefield for you?
Is h it's I say, it's it's compark to what I said that it
just depends with the code you've got for that area, if it's skin time
of year, things like that. Que you've got left or why if why
you be there? It's never an easy jab. It's certainly certainly not easy,
and but was it? Is there? Something now is a north is
north some of the north Sea code is going to open up the West coast
again either hoping that there's a flexibility now with the knowledge that the cord is
they've made it into three stocks, so that the western stock, the north
Sea what we would call north Sea in the West Coast stops the same stock.
So there's gonna be a great effect flexibility with the quota for the North
Sea into the West coast, so there should be more tournage a cord going
into the West coast for us to coach. So it's coming off of the
like a Bycotch situation and going on to tonage tournage I'm out, which has
yet to be a grade on. There's various ways that they think a would
day in it, and I was obviously going to be winners and losers.
The guys that have maybe fish West predominantly fish West, feel that they should
get a by aushare because that are historical grounds us guys maybe fishing north Sea
and they've got to holdings in the west coast and they want to be able
to benefit as well. So so a bit of a minefield just now where
has been nothing as far as I'm awareness and agreed with how that extra quote
is going to be or a flexibility quote has been allocated. Yet would that
would that take away the four degree line to a point? To a point
it would if that depends how much flexibility they allow on how much. But
for four degree lin a lot of disappear I've seen as long as you've got
area six and area four as fishing areas, four degree ling will always exists,
I would imagine. And is that just only for cod cod? Cod
is a bigger thing just now. There has been flexibility with monk, that
has been flexibility with hate. I think it's cool. There has been a
bit of flexibility with our species as well, but it varies for a year
a year, it's it's available to be pass one side. Sometimes it Cake
could could come east, but they couldn't go west. It was second.
It didn't really work for us, but it was anyway. That's the way
it was. Getting back to your recording thing, there's a probably heard about
an up that they've been developing. Well, then SF and white fish.
It's called back up and it's it was primary primarily designed for a cord and
waiting like a Boycots species in the West coast. If if you there's an
up on your phone, if you encounter catches over a turn per whole,
you would you would be then your tournage per hole according white and regardless and
if if it's over a ton, alert would good to everybody with us up
on their phone to alert them that's cord in this area, with the idea
being the boats would stay clearer the code. The same with whitings. Now
they've done it for dogfish now as well. It's been when it's going offen
endangered list. Dog fish is now in the up as well. So there's
obviously that the boats went avoid cutching dog fishes, especially this time of year,
and so that's been for the report and it But again this information is
there, it's been going now for maybe two years, three years, but
as far I'm aware, none of the information has been used besides yet and
they've got they'll have it. Yeah, And it's that's that's that's live information.
That's that's information and an hourly basis Basically I mean, it's every time
you hall, so it's it's it's a daily it's it's as good as information
she'll get it's live m h, it's ye just comes over women. What
more can fishermen do? What's it trying? What's what more can they do?
Because they're trying everything they can. That's really very sad that it's not
used and acted. It's going to afford and you'll just see that the like
the areas have been made into like get talked against like shape and you would
just see like if it's been a high cotch a chord recording, it'll be
like a cutch per unit effort. So you'll see how much cod this areas
will be highlighted and red so that you can avoid them. Yeah, oh,
well where do you see the future? Well, stockwise, in the
futures features as good as it's been, I would say it's an if you
could see that the stocks were decreasing or shrinking and size or everything, as
long as it's continued to be saying fish sustainably. Obviously there's there's there's issues
and within like I said, you get the small headache hard it COUTE increased
hugely this year in the North Sea and you think that's great, but mainly
in the North it's small headache. And then as a suppli demand thing again
there's now the processes to process a small heddach. So though the headline and
the paper looked x amount a million extra code available for Scottish fleet to cotch
in, the reality is a look that's basically worthless because you kind of get
ridu you the wester coutch that you kind of get it. It's dark kind
of things that that need addressing, like the amount of small hedic guanan and
depressing the price in a mixed fishery, and it's it's you can't avoid them.
It's it's so it's but then the fish are there. And that's another
thing is that I'm back to a few questions ago. Is a mistrust we
saw this rices within the fishing industry as well. Is this massive swings a
coda? I mean there's like a North Sea hodoch this year, massive increase
hundreds and forever west percent and it happened at all a few years ago.
It's massive uplifting. The other ask any fisherman in a stock never moves that
amount in a year, never moves that amount a year. If a stock's
decreasing will be a gradual decrease of stocks increases a gradual increase. So to
me, this massive increases it. It's created a time when you can you
hear about you think that's that's numbers, just nonsense. It's just it's nearly
reality because this doesn't happen in reality. There's not a stock in the world
will just increase one hundred percent of space for a year. This doesn't happen.
And then I just love hearing you saying that because one of the points
has meant to that icy scientist Marked Gicolas. I said, you and ices
you were recommending and you put through is it a sixty three percent increase and
cord last year, that says, but the fear amongst fishermen was sixty three
percent. Looks good, that says, but it's such such a low point
where sixty three percent there's nothing, there's nothing that says so they were you
were in a low point. That says that you put a sixty three percent
increase and now last this is last year, and I says, you're recommending
a seventeen percent decrease, and that's exact words I says fishermen. Fishermen do
not see that swings and fluctuation in the stocks that that you're coming with there
now this massive swings ices are suggesting. To me, it just weakends our
argument for everything because if the Hobbit, if the model they're using for whatever
specie, if the Hobbit Publish Act figures to allow a massive stock, well,
to me, all of all of their models must be flawed because it
just doesn't happen. But hey, just humble fishermen, would we know?
But and then the point the message that comes over to me loud so loud
with this conversation is here, you're you're widely you're confident that there's a future
in the fishing, which I think is a great message and a great signal
to get out. But it's obviously where your concerns lie, because most of
our concern has been about the scientists, most of our conversation. But they
are dictating, They dictate everything everything boys do at the end of the day,
Yeah, yeah, because probably the politician, it's them they'll listen to
Oh, they'll listen to them. Well, they when I listened to fish
fisherman's they got voicely not scientific the level. Yeah, and I also completely
agree with that very valid point you made there, Alan. I think the
shore side emerchants and processors, they're really feel I feel that they really need
to do something two correct that situation because the small Haddachs or not there's no
market for them. But the fact is there is a market for them,
but they need to get them to that market. They need to get processing
and get them to that market. The demand is there m hm. That
is there is one of them getting machines or or there's a development with it
with some kind of machines that are going to be able to obviously the de
things clickalority things, but or eliminate the issue with the process and capacity.
But how long that's going to take? How long that's this year? The
thing is? I mean next year, I just come out and then just
say we'll get to cut the I'll see one hundred percent, because that doesn't
long term goal or future planning earth. And it's even if you've got even
this annual thing I think is outdated. I think it should be like a
five year plan and this should take like a five year so everybody knows what
I'm doing for the next five year and then revise it. And it's because
a stock snag at the collapse in a space for a year, so to
be this annual negotiations, it's it's it's it's outdated. I've got a plan
in mind to get back to another podcast with ices and ask them when are
we going to get as it is forty years not enough to come to take
monkfish out of data. I'll laughing, but it's just deadly serious, just
nonsense, absolutely shocking. Every meeting you go there and it's a monk fish
is how can it be? That? A poor for whereas information went?
It's yeah, yeah, how do you feel about technology? Get more?
Can be more into things? Obviously with that app that must that is that
something that could be taken further or more people get the scientists in on it
or of the access to it now, well I massure if they've got access
to it, but I mean that they are development there hoping like to use
it in the North Sea and I mean you could put in every specie if
you wanted int it then and it's anonymous, so you've got to be in
the You've got to be in the pool to be able to use it.
But it's not like you could see like a catch a coat somewhere and say,
well that's mister X or skip a rex. He's got his quote because
it's anonymous son nebty knows who unless you're your ac end up there and you
see the boat, you wouldn't know who it is. It's then that forgether.
So there's a there's no identity to the to the information. The the
identity obviously the the up managers of can obviously see. But that was one
of the things that the fishing industry was mainly concerned about the start was can
you if somebody was recorded a cut like just say cordfish and on the west
coast, Well, obviously you've got a discard bar and you've got a percent,
would you be liable for prosecution? And if you put and seeing you
caught this call accord But I thought was one of the things that the industry
can a fisherman and I said, look, we need a better on immunity
here, so there's any chance of being prosecuted. But we're telling you there
was card there, but we're not telling youth we did with them. I'm
not taking the science to side Alan, but I'm a bit skeptical about what
you said there just a little bit. You're saying that it's anonymous, but
I'm quite sure if somebody put in hold the code, Alan Anderson would know
exactly who it was. Maybe it's an idea the same as you're the same
as sorry, the same as you worked out with the non UK boats how
they go to some areas and how quick they leave it. But no that
that that type of that type of advancement. But technology should be being used
to our advantage, and I fully think it has been used to our total
advantage. If I'm honest, you know, technology has a great future and
well if we use it properly. But it's just a device. It's not
life and death. But one of the things that fascinates me talking to you
all, what is what's what's coming across here? It is your mindset and
you're the way you think and that you're a you're a let's let's let's lose
sight of the fact you're a hunt there, and it's it's nature's coming onto
the interplay as well, and seasons and and everything. So it's it's obviously
I think it's brilliant and that's why I enjoy speaking so much with fisherman.
I just love the way it's think and see things, and and maybe a
little bit of suspicion as well. And you know, I'm quite sure if
a fisherman was to tell you where he was and what he caught, you
would you would take a fork and knife. Dad, You know you're right.
I mean, well, I enjoy going to see It's one of the
last occupancies that you are, like a hunter gatherer, and there's that kind
of primal instinct that you're left it's a base. It's when you leave harbor,
you're basically put in your wits against mother nature. And she's got the
fish and you went to find them, and she's tried to hide him as
best you can, and you've got to try and as best as you can
to try and find them and get them backing with their nature. So there's
no greater sense of satisfaction and going out harvesting a good cotch and coming back
and and seeing your cuts in the fish market. It's a sense of achievement
every trip. And it's it's almost I wouldn't say as far as it is
a drug, but it's an adrenaline there's that every trip is the same.
If you get a big hall of fish, good hall of fish, it's
a boys, there's adrenaline in you. You're excited, you shot again,
you try again. It's the same at the end of our trip. If
you come on with a good trip years and it's addictive. It's very addictive.
As for hunter gatherers. Yet I see as this hunters, but also
see its like you ask my about the future. We are the guardians of
the sea, and I'll be fishing for forty years, but we'll be fishing
for four hundred years after I'm finished. So we're trying to look after the
stocks, not just for this year or next year, but for decades to
come. And that's why I think you should be listening to more. Alan
be good when we talk about sustainability, well, I agree, yeah,
we should be listening to more. When the fleet was bigger, I can
park at the civities neededs when you need a lot of boats, and you'd
always had the boats. It was at the top of the tree or the
snot bars before and that was the guys that had the that hid it in
them. You might have had a guy it was just skipper and he fished
away. But if you didn't hear the start a bitter bite or that bit
of instinct. Yeah, yeah, that was the difference between a fisherman and
a snot ban but makes sense for what's stop by fisherman, A top fisherman
that trade a scale that obviously as an element of scale help and knowledge.
But you need a bit of luck, you need a better I never give
up attitude again, Yeah, yeah, the one the one thing that I
unless I'm wrong, I don't think I did. And I'm pleased I didn't
hear the word I didn't hear from you, which is just don't you go
by myself with fishermen luck. I don't believe there's such a thing as luck.
And if there is, you make your You make your own luck.
It's not it's not it's not luck. It's hard work and lots of thought
and study. You need, you need to have a slight element of lout
gim there is a element a lot because some guys are quite unlucky. Can
we break doing some things like that? Can? I just generally general?
Can somebody will be by a boat and years ago somebody here boat and it's
it's work perfect for them and somebody else came along and boy and it's problems
and can be it's just lock up with it. There is an element a
lock but no, you're right, You're right, there is. It's a
lot is do to knowledge and scale and everything. But you know, I
think you need to be a lot. If I was a Scottish fisherman or
a UK fishermen fishing in the Babiscuy with static gear with girlnets or lonelines,
and did I think my business would last very long? If I was fishing
alongside European fishermen with mobile gear with local guys. If you fishing alongside local
French or Spanish mobile boats, if there was a fisher area, that is
hypothetically my business would in the last two minutes. I'd be bankrupt in no
time. That guys, the Spanish in the in the French are so militant
they would just tow through your gear and that be you finished. We seem
to take a softer option in the west of Shetland and got the Scottish fisherman
Hanadin that but as well as that Alan you could add into that. You
would within your life for your rules, spare your life. You wouldn't go
in and land in one of their ports, or you under their noses,
because they would regularly they would be, they would get and they would get
away with it. They would either damage your fish, spoil your landing,
or or block your lord, and that would be it. Do you do
it once? And that it would be it. Yet that these guys have
came up, came to Okay, they've done it for years. I'm saying
the Hannah done it for years and historically that's what. But that just gets
more and more of them, and they're becoming a bigger, bigger problem.
And I just feel that we are being we're being too soft. But what
did I get the back up? And if I'm sure the likes of the
Spanish for French, well you see it this week with the with the French
farmers and Paris and they're putting hay bales into into roads and things like that.
You see French policemen there. I mean, they're just allowed to do
it. And that's that's that's the way their culture is. Whereas we as
soon as we would step out of line, it would be us that would
be punished and the perpetry and be seen as victim. And then it's the
way I see it is if hypothetically, if a Scottish fishing boat or UK
fishing boat went to the beer Biscuit to fish the long lines our girl nets,
and there was a Spanish, a French fleet and mobile trawlers there and
we were trying to encroach in their area. They were just too our gear
away. We wouldn't get a start. Yet they're coming up to our area
and shooting their long lines our gill nets and expecting us to steep could clear
them, and are blogging off mass of areas I see basically shutting us out
the areas that we've fished for generations. They're going about the historic right to
be there. Well, we've got historic right to be there. It's UK
Waters's Yet I just feel like I threw our days on barking us up enough
are helping us to find a solution to the problem, and it's just getting
washed and wash every year. And it's a detrimental effect of the stocks.
Definitely in a detrimental effect of stocks that the fish for the type of fish
that they are catching. You're saying that, I would say you're seeing a
downward trend and cut trets for for the trawler now, for the trawlers now,
And like I said earlier, even even with them that was eight of
them landed in scrubs the last week and the hidden enough fishes fall two lorries
a fish for eight boats, so they didn't bother going back to see for
a week. It's the first time I've ever heard of that, I've ever
saying it. So obviously they're finding it difficult now to find fish in the
traditional places that they are going, So to me, that's a sign.
That's an early sign, early war man saying that things are starting to kind
of hit a critical point for them as well. I mean, eight boats
and only two trucks, and it's just it's unbelievable, really, isn't it.
I didn't realize, ignorant as it maybe sound. I didn't realize until
you mentioned it earlier that I actually thought the reason they were staying ashore was
to keep out the bad weather. But it's actually from it you said there.
The reason they kept the stay ashore is because there was nothing. There
was no fish to go back. But one of the one of the known
UK boats, one of the skippers are very good English and he was talking
to the harbor employees, and that's what he said, this is the one
going to back out because of fishing was so bad. But then it's got
no going effect of us as well. I mean that it's they'll they'll probably
just go to another area, be an area that the and I used before
or tried before, and they'll just plaster it as well and just finish it
as well. Areas need to get arrest. You've got to fish the same
area weekend, we could expect to get the same yield, the same returnal
harvest, the same amount of fish. Areas need to get arrest. They
need to they need to be left alone for a while. That's the words
from somebody is that's responsible and thinking of the future, But they obviously don't.
That doesn't concern them at all, or doesn't It doesn't doesn't appear to
bother them though. It's just it's not their own. It's not their own,
so they probably don't feel they have any interest in looking after it.
No, No, that's correct, just move on somewhere else after the next
once they've cleaned the black the bit, they'll just move on to the next
area, right. I mean that type of fleet it's the I used to
that that's the kind of method deficient that they're done for for generations that they've
cleaned it. They're going coastal waters and then they've just moved They've just moved
up the edge and they now they're up and then ped it in our our
area because univers used to see them like west of Saint Kilda, in west
bar Ahead and places like that. You never ever see them there now because
obviously there's nothing for the coach. Yeah, but they've cleaned it for But
that's it. That's right, My goodness. I can remember when we were
dealing with the Orkney boats Revo Jimmy Baying and the Rivo. He often fished
off a bar ahead. It was a productive area. See, that's that's
I don't think people are aware just quite how sedious that is. I said
at the very beginning, I said that this is the biggest concern that I
see in the future. Hour industry is just now is because in flux static
gear, gillnets and longline boats. Yeah, you did, and the way
I appreciate the way you put it, it wasn't you weren't linking it with
your pay packet or your income, or that it was the future of our
fish stocks in the industry. You were concerned about personal No, No,
I mean it's personal size a short term. It's long term that you've got
to look at. Yeah, I just don't feel they're looking it's now and
that's all they're interested in. The thing is it just creates. It creates
an area like a squeeze, an aerial squeeze because the trollers we can't get
fished for. We want to fish, so we are pushed sent a tighter
and tighter area to fish and then of course it gets so it's got no
coin effect. It's got a no coin effect that the trailers are fishing in
an area, fishing areas constantly like a Shetland basins. It's never getting arrest
because we kind of spread our wings. We kind of get where I want
to go because the static boats and then then and then they move in and
they just it's just a special squeeze which is getting constantly wash and it's it's
not good for stocks with stocks kind of the kind of sustain the amount of
effort on them. Yeah, Beggar's belief. It's shocking that it don I
don't think marine Scotland. I don't think the board them at sea. I
don't think they monitor them as sure. I didn't think they've got the appetite
for it. Obnestly didn't think that. It doesn't appear they've got the appetite
for it. I was at rock all Lost July August, some summer anyway,
that was myself in another Scottish boat, the Aquarius was on the bank
and there was one Spanish angle Spanish, I think she should get registered for
red astaurants. He was there and the fisher production vessel came out. He
boarded us, and they boarded the Aquarius and even spoke the Spaniard. Three
boats in the area and that that one day he boarded two Scottish boats and
I even spoke the Spanish boat then went away back east. Well, well
crazy, that's that's just disgusting. That's just it's just not that's that's not
how it should And if you say it's Angelo, but what we call a
flag in convenient, yes, well that's pretty's registered so that they should be
born to die. But they know it's it's it's a paper exercise the ownership
of the boats. It's no new k but No, that was that was
last last I think it was Dune July last year. Anyway, in summer
months it was there wasn't it was only three boats were showing up in the
I S and the bark just it was ned just a three of us and
he the protection vessel. Didn't the bo that with the Spanish boat. Yeah,
it's just not good enough. And yet when you when you if,
when you question that, it's the boardings. The boardings are similar to the
were and it's just the case, definitely the case. Yeah, which one
was that or the Spanish boat it was Dan's or the you asked when I
think it was a dura dura, I think it was a dura. Well,
well, it's disheartening, very it's disheartening, and it must be all.
I mean, it's disheartening for me heeding that. But I mean you're
in the cool face, your is out there, You're I mean to live
with it and work with it and accepted it. You just got accepted.
That's the kind of Well, that's the thing. I think we have to
find ways getting it getting it fixed, because we shouldn't have We shouldn't.
It's not right, so we shouldn't accept it we have. I would say,
maybe you have to feel you accepted, but but that's wrong because then
that's that's almost as bad as them, the fact that, yeah, oh
it's total, that it's total, it's completely that. I would just like
to thank you so which I've really enjoyed that and it's been fascinating just talking
to and obviously know you well, but just the way you think and when
you're out there. I just think it's brilliant. And I hope that with
the generations to come, I hope that mindset stays with the future fishermen.
I think I think the guys have got that mindset. I think I think
you need it. I think you need to hear that mindset now to be
successful. Thank you for listening to this episode. If you liked it,
hit subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a five star review,
and if you want to speak with me, visit Seafood matterspodcast dot com.