Welcome to you Softcore History. Hello, and welcome back to soft Core History.
My name is Jake Goldman. I'm here with two strangers. I haven't
been on the show in a while. What's sir. I'm Jake Goldman.
Thanks for having me on your show. To meet you. My name is
Rob. Nice to meet you, Rob. Are you? Um? Yeah,
I'm the guy that that didn't come in last week because I was saying
I thought it was polite of me to like not come in sick. Jake
had a little baby cough. I was COVID adjacent. Yeah, that was
polite of you. Yeah, we're I mean, we're all. We're all
vaxed up and everything. Listen to the episode. Yeah you can tell from
that joke. Yeah, yeah, it's a callback, and that's stand regester,
the other voice you hear. What's up? Of course? Yeah,
go back and listen to that episode if you haven't already. It's pretty good.
Okay. I actually listened to it on Tuesday morning because I worked from
home on Tuesday too, just to make sure everything was good. I couldn't
get a COVID test until like Monday night or something like that or whatever,
So no, random, Yeah, it's like possible. Heart Again, it's
really hard to get a COVID test, right, I got. I got
COVID tests like a month or two ago because I was having the same back
pain that I had when I had COVID, and I thought, I was
like, fuck, well that was the only symptom I had. And then
I got it and of COVID, and then I realized that I was probably
completely asymptomatic and the only thing that was in common was I had driven long
distances both times. Yeah, well, you see, my COVID test was
kind of thorough. I just ate an onion. Yeah, it's an apple
bite of an onion. It worked the entire onion. Yeah, so I
tried to do that. So I had like a stuff, you knows,
allergies things like that. So my set so smell and taste was kind of
diminished, but not gone. My smell is never really fully returned, which
I'm not you know, I'm not complaining about. It's not that great of
a sense. Yeah. No, are you a dog or something you need
to smell things? No, I mean it's pretty important to like olfactory taste
and no, no, I can still like I taste fine, but for
whatever, really smells like strong things like like apple, cider, vinegar.
Okay, something that commented yes okay, and also like you could like with
taste what you just have to kick it up a not. I mean as
you can eat spicier food, oh more garlicky food. Rob, you said
something that you just missed. I just missed my queue too for the dog
ticket transition. Come on, yeah, that's fine. You know the podcast,
and if you don't, it's new here. Of course, go back
and listen to the back Catalog had a great episode last week about John Paul
Jones. I can't I can't say that Jake's absence didn't help it. Coop
did a really good job. But you know, well yeah, Cooper always
causation correlation. Yeah, of course too. I'm wearing a one of our
newer shirts are Topsy the Electric Elephant Share. Oh yeah, talk about that
available at softcore history dot com. We're here for the brand now. So
there are a handful of you. I think there's three orders right now pending
still that need to go out. I'm gonna be hitting up that delivery.
We've done like like thirty five forty shirts. Yeah, yeah, we've done
it. About no threat of getting a tattoos someone I forget who. I
don't keep my phone on me when I'm on the show because I don't want
to get distracted. But one of our listeners tweeted at us saying they were
wearing it in a gas station, and someone was like, cool shirt,
what's it about? And he explained the history, and then the guy got
mad, and I tweeted back at him. I was like, did he
not look at the shirt? It's a shirt. It's very clearly an elephant
being murdered with electricity or at least commit suicide. Yeah, there's no other
way to take what that shirt is. No, it's literally wearing like an
old school green mile like needs needs a sponge kind of electric chair hat on
it, and it's pulling its own switch. I don't know where you were.
Oh what's that about. It's it's an elephant it yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's really good, really good print. We'll see how it goes
with the wash. Uh yeah, we'll do a little washt He's just come
in today. But I'm sure they're fine. Sure, it'll be fine.
We have a tank tops two. You're you're rocking that earlier. It's not
like I'm going to fucking Citizen Bank Park and picking up a five dollars shirt
outside of the stadium, right, yeah, yeah, exactly. These are
high quality, they're super soft. Yeah, we got our Knick label on
them and stuff like that. It's real cool, man. And then we're
gonna we're gonna have some more designs in the pipeline coming up. Probably go
home, smoke a little weed, and then uh, maybe working on Mike
malloy shirt. Oh yeah, I actually just got my own little design suite
too, so I can start putting out some shirts that I want to do.
We'll obviously run them by committee, but yeah, you definitely gotta run
by me. But um okay, but yeah no. If you go to
software history dot com you can see all those shirts. They're all on sale.
Any purchases you buy in there, we thank you for it. Like,
tell your friends about them. They aren't really good shirts, they're super
comfortable. Multiple about the podcast. I just thought of a slogan for it,
Too Irish to Die. It's not bad. Yeah, still a lot
of good shirts for Too Rare to Live, Too Irish. Maybe that's a
release before Saint Pa. Yeah, two Irish to Die and it's just a
guy like chugging. Actually, yeah, we're gonna sell that. We'll have
like a more Mike Malloy shirt, I'm sure. But then we'll just have
like a plain text too irish to die for thinking it might that might just
be the Mike Malloy shirt. Now we just maybe put like a silhouette of
Mike malloy. Yeah, yeah, just to keep an eyeuf for that shirt.
That's probably go viral for competing. We said this verbal contract, we
own that. Yeah, that's ours. You can't have it, but anyway,
Joe can cut that. Um. So, what we're actually talking about
today though, it's kind of a a broader topic. We're not talking about
some one person like uh, Mike Malloy or um, certain events that happen
under like it's more like the pregnancy episodes yea, yeah, or the variety
is the spice of light. Yeah, and that's why you come to this
podcast. We have our own little different, um you know, kind of
topics that we lean into. The animals I've noticed, like animals and clowns.
You did topsy animals, circuses. Yeah, you love this, love
the fucking certain. I hate clowns too, which is The funniest part about
that, like a walked Damn Ross was dressed like a clown. It was
kind of terrible. Yeah, yeah, that was It was really good clown
makeup. So like, okay, that makes sense. Like frequent Icona Blast
guest Jesse did that. Yeah, And speaking about Kona Blasts, which Joel
on the h I know Coop is Coop Cooperson. He prefers to go by
that, Joel, what's your lasting? Also, I I I hand up.
Uh, I was bad host last week. I did not pimp by
Kona Blast at all. That's shitty, bro. That was very shitty of
me. So well, yeah, go listen to Kona Blast with Coop and
Joel. Yeah, and Jesse this week too. I believe that's awesome.
Yeah. So what we're talking about to day on software History though, is
going to be my largest domestication of animals. The reason why I personally wanted
to start doing this was because I was sick on Monday. Um. I
originally was going to talk about a different topic on Monday, but I was
sick and it was going to be about occultism and Nazi Germany, which we
will cover. I love the crazy batom Blevotsky bullshit that Hitler was into,
yeah, in the nineteen thirties. But line, we've done a lot of
Nazi stuff so far. I know. That's kind of what I was thinking
too, is like Anne that we've done a lot of Russian stuff, right,
how many Nazi stuff we don't? We did The Night Witches, which
is Nazi adjacent, We did Leo major. Yeah, we actually haven't covered
like Nazi Nazis. So actually I will still do that obviously, but it's
gonna be whenever. It'll be a fan softcore history. Don't overthink it.
So a co worker mind, a co worker mind sent me. It always
come back to fucking Hitler. Yeah, it will, it has to.
It's Godwin's podcast, law yep. Yeah, well, I still think it's
not. At some point we need to start doing like who was our Hitler
of the week? Who was the story done Hitler a week? We will,
we can do it for this one. Let's let's not tire ourselves to
segments, okay, right right right? Yeah? Sure, So I was
sick, I wasn't feeling great. Mine had been talking to me about someone
else who we talked about dumb shit like this at work. He's like,
yeah, so have you heard about these Russian foxes? And I was like,
no, what about him? He's like, they domesticate really quick,
like after like three generations. They become fully domesticated after just a little bit
of trial. So I'm gonna he sent me the actual kind of abstract from
it. I'm gonna kind of pull out some key things. My last name
is Fox and because of this, I looked into this like years ago to
see if you could like get a domesticated fox as a pet. I found
this exact story. Oh really, yes, Oh I know, I know
the whole fucking story already, prey. I mean, I read it years
ago, so I'm missing pieces, but yeah, I read the whole thing
about I'll let you fill in the blanks. Childhood pretty much preconditioned us to
want foxes as pets. Fox the Tales from Sonic, The Hedgehog Tales.
Yes, I was more of a Nintendo than a second guy. Same but
makes sense and as both. It depends on it depending on which cousin I
was and in that week. Okay, no, my family didn't afford it.
No, my family, yeah, my mom would remember backing the day
like that costs two hundred dollars. What fuck? You? Can you imagine
a second costing two hundred dollars now, Like that's still too expensive. Yeah,
Like we'd be like, no, absolutely not, that's terrible graphics for
that. Yeah. And I'd be like, well, maybe you should start
being an attorney for a firm instead of maybe goddamn government, man, I
want to maybe you should start making guilty people innocent. I would kill for
a Dreamcast right now. God, Dreamcast was a bad system, Like what
what do they have? Like the fish, the talk that you. Yeah,
I had nothing. We were playing a Dreamcast ones and just being confused
and infuriated by it. It's like the memory cards. Also a digimon or
like something. It was. A GameCube was also up there. I mean
they at least the Mario and like Mario really yeah, Mario the man says
his own name in every game. It's me Mario, Mario Mario anyway any
way, Uh yeah, So I still remember the cheet codes the Mortal Kombat
to this day, Like I like I remember me and Kylie went to an
old or the toy museum in Austin and they had the old Mortal Kombat.
Uh kind of arcade game and I knew, uh like backpack b is get
over here. Oh yeah, oh I missed the old arcade Mortal Kombat.
Um. I used to play as raid in so it's down down, made
you teleport and then sub zero down or down back I think a or be
able one of the sun to freeze. Yeah, but just to kind of
go over this weird domestication story. So if we're like the last sixty years,
a team of Russian geneticis led by Leadmila Trout, you don't have to
try Lead Mail Trout. I've been running one of the most important bill g
experiments of the twentieth and now, I guess twenty first century. See,
this is another thing you do is you pick subjects with just impossible names.
I love it. I just like, you know, Eastern Europe their hand
John Paul Jones rolls off the time. I have a super hard time same
words in general. So like I'm like, yeah, I'll go with the
easy English names. Yeah yeah, So I mean, I guess I just
gravitate towards weird history, and a lot of that comes out of the largest
landmasks in the country in the world. That's Eurasia. Yeah, so I
mean it makes sense, I guess. But also, this experiment has been
running for like six years since the brainchild of Trust's mentor Dmitri Baelev, who
in nineteen fifty nine began an experiment to study the process of domestication in real
time. And this is the first experiment ever where it was like, we're
gonna domesticate something that is not domesticated and with the intent of domesticating it,
and see how long it takes to do it. So he was especially keen
on understanding the domestification of wolves to dogs. But rather than use wolves,
he used silver foxes as a subject. So George Clooney's silver fox. Yeah
no, but yeah, and I love that. It's like he'd preferred not
to you. He wanted to learn more about wolves. But he's like,
that seems really hard. Wolf gets out. You got a real problem.
Here's the fox gets out. He just leaves so the way. And it
might make a lot of sense why he picked foxes instead of wolves, because
his method of testing whether or not the animal was docile enough was sticking his
hand into the cage to and if it bit or not, like you'd have
a glove. Basically it's like and if a bit he'd be like, all
right, don't use that one, right, and so he slowly did that.
Yeah, it doesn't work with wolves the hand test. Yeah, yeah,
the hand The wolves they circle you, they team up on you.
The foxes they just lead you down a trail in the forest that you're unfamiliar
with. Yeah, and they're just kind of like a guid in light.
Well, big foxes or foxes can be mean, they can bite, they
can't kill you. I've never seen in my life. Have you ever seen
a fox in your life? Yeah, okay, multiple where they're pretty hand
in my neighborhood all the time, and they're pretty Oh really, I've never
seen a fox in a while. Yore. Interesting. Um So, starting
from what would amounted to a population of wild foxes within six generations of foxes
of foxes, not people, so six years Yeah, in six years time,
this happened. Uh. Selection for tameness and tameness alone produced a subset
of foxes that licked the hands of experimenters. He was just making the friendly
ones fuck each other. Yeah, exactly, so. Uh, they would
lick the hands of the experimenters. They could be picked up and petted Uh,
they whined when the humans left, and they wagged their tails when humans
approached. Yeah, it sounds like most dogs that were adopted during the pandemic.
Yeah. By the way, if you a shelter, if you adopted
a dog during the pandemic and then returned it because you were like didn't care
him this anymore, I would like you to replace your dog in the shelter.
Yeah, in the shelter. I think you should be in that cage.
About fucking hate you seriously is a subtweet at anyone. Do you know
someone that did that? I don't, thankfully. Yeah. I was about
to say, if you know some sah now I would say it on air.
I would have dragged that person. I would have no simboth like,
I would dox the fuck out of that that type of person. Someone argue,
that's one of the worst people to be. Yeah, so kind of
being, it's just being cruel to a living thing. Yeah, No,
I mean like my dog. I adopted my dog at nine months old,
and they adopted it at eight weeks old, which is like the bare minimum
of age it's supposed to be. Yeah, we got Jack at eight weeks
and it's like anything before that you really shouldn't get Jacket. I didn't get
Jack Chase Chase Motley at two years old. Yeah, it's a good time
to get headed. Yeah yeah, we lear knew how to sit and piss
outside. I was pumped. It was like thanks dude, but yeah,
um, it's crazy though, that family adopted my dog at eight weeks old
then just dropped it off at nine months Like oh yeah, it's like fuck
you pieces shit, that's what I did. Like the family I adopted Chase
from, they had him for two years and like we just keep him in
the cage the whole time. Yeah, at least they gave it to you,
right, or did you get it from the shelter. They're about to
give it to the shelter. I mean that's the house to house transfer is
better than sending the dog to jail for nothing. The worst thing, though,
is like six months after I got him in his cage, they took
back the cage. What they get another dog? They're like, can we
get another can we get to the cage back? I'm like, what do
you need? What do you need is? Uh, we wanted to just
torture another dog. We want to be shitty owners to another they got another
dog. Yeah, wow, that's so shitty. Dog is like the least
problematic dog too, Like, well, I've only known him old and I
have seen him actually fuck pillows a lot. But other than him like humping
pillows, it's pretty chill. He doesn't really do anything pretty much. We
would bring our dogs over when we were recording uh fucking spare bedroom or whatever.
Like, they wouldn't even interact with each other. Chase was like uninterested.
Yeah how he rolls yeah like his owner, So just uninterested. So
let's than a decade, some of the domestic kated foxes had even grown to
have floppy ears and curly tails, and you can see that, like if
you look up some Russian silver foxes. Now, so for anyone watching,
they were the equivalent, i mean perfect. They evolved very quickly to their
benefit of making humans like them into this. That's a real thing that happens
when there's social animals, like especially Yeah, like I forget the term i'm
gonna I'm gonna watch it. I think it's like maya, I'm not gonna
even gonna try to say it's it's basically the scientific word for the evolution of
cute traits to survive better. Yeah, yeah, it's a thing. Dogs
developed their eyebrow muscles to do that, to make their like eyes go like,
right, have poppy eyes. Wolves don't have that. Yeah, wolves
don't. Don't do don't like arch their eyebrows, no stuff and make their
eyes bigger around people because they're like, we have no benefit. And by
the way, dogs literally cannot feel guilt, but they they've learned to express
what looks like being guilty so that you get like less man at it.
Yeah, isn't that fu isn' that what feeling guilt is expressing that you feel
guilt? Yes, same thing. Yeah, yeah, we're not Yeah no.
Yeah, So you're saying every dog's a sociopath. Yes, hey man,
every dog is an animal. You could say it's a dog eat dog
world. O um okay, so a couple other things too. I'm sorry,
Yeah, okay, I was like trying. I'm sorry, I paused
on it. I just I had to digest it. But us digesting like
pizza hut. Yeah, that's also that was that was an off camera Yeah.
Yeah, for pizza gave me and my wife horrifying diarrhea yesterday. It's
gonna doubled down on what you told. That's fine. She was screaming.
I could hear from across the house. She's pregnant. It's just not pooping
pregnant. It's not good, apparently not. But the stress hormone levels by
generation fifteen of these dogs after fifteen years were half the stress hormone levels,
So the gluco corticoid levels of the wild foxes were reduced by half, and
over generations their adrenal glands actually became smaller and smaller. Um their serotonin levels
also in increased, producing happier animals, and over the course of the experiment,
researchers also found that domesticated fox is displayed modeled mutt like or uh yeah,
fox is displayed muddeled mutt like patterns, and they had more like juvenilized
facial features like what Rob is talking about. Shorter, rounder, more doglike
snouts started to develop, and the body shapes started to change too, so
they got chunkier so than having like gray salt long limbs. So what you're
saying is we like we made a bunch of beta foxes. Yeah, and
this is what's happening to American man were eating fatter and softer in the face.
Who's breeding is like that? I want to know Liberals? Yeah,
jee jeez, Yeah for sure. Jews um so interestingly enough too that they
have actually like a longer reproductive period it than they're wild progenitors as well,
So like the wild ones have a shorter which makes sense. They're not in
human care, they're not being taken into shelters, say, I gotta spit
this baby out. I gotta spit this baby out. Yeah. Yeah,
yeah, it's interesting how that works. It's not healthy to live a fairwal
lifestyle, yeah, exactly. So actually they're starting to figure out too that
like the longer they do this, they're linking this with with like synaptic plasticity
as well, which means like the foxes are better at remembering things further down
the road too, Like we're making them smarter. Well, that's because they're
stressed. They're not stressed out. They have a smaller adrenal glance. So
that's I started reading about that. It's like what the fuck? How Like
how is this so eat like with just that much intention of domesticating an animal
that is not domesticated, Like, what is the process of that? How
dogs became domesticated in the first place. Okay, Like, and I kind
of started going down this rabbit hole, and I really just need you to
follow along with me. Sure, So first we're gonna talk about what domestication
even is, because there's a lot there's a ton of just back and forth
argument on how dogs became domesticated because just like anything with ancient history story,
it's prehistoric, right, And there's even debate on what domestication even means,
Like, for instance, yeah, no, I mean it's like efrosinologists,
here's my thing. Is it sleeping with you from more than two nights?
Has it tried to eat you? It might be domesticated. Yeah right,
unless it's like a tiger, and you might be domestic like a fucking Jeff
Fox domesticated. If you got big, old cute eyeballs and movements, you
might be domesticated. I can't do any more than that. That was all
I got. So what even is domestication? So I'm going to operate under
this assumption of what domestication is. Some people believe that domestication is as simple
as you are removing a wild animal from the wild and keeping it captive for
the rest of its natural life cycle. That's a domesticated animal, to which
I say, bullshit, Yeah, that's not accurate. Captive tiger right,
will rip my face off. It is not. It is not domestic in
any possible way to me as a human being. Now, I think we
need to look at domestication through the lens that that definition technically means that the
velociraptor at the beginning of Jurassic Park that rips that guy and do domesticated.
It was domesticated veloci exactly. Would you consider the circus bears domesticated? Absolutely
not. They're riding tricycles through hoops of fire. What them learning what they
have to do to survive? Yeah, that's not the same. That's more
of a not dying. It's just google Russian bear circus attack and there will
be pages upon pages of results. Not in the circus. Yes, maybe
they were fighting for better pay. Do you ever think of that? I
you know what, I didn't side with the worker, and that's just the
capitalist pig in me. I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, capitalist pig.
They'll pay for the communist bear. Yeah, exactly. So we are
going to be assuming domestication is through anthropo anthropological lens or ethnology lens, which
is how the animal responds to our culture like us, we're looking at it
through human lens, which we have to right candid interact and live with us
basically. Okay, So domestication is what happens when we'll define it as something
genetically altered in a plant or animal that makes the species reliant on humans.
So I mean, as much as like I would like to think I could
throw my dog out in the woods, It's like his instincts would kick in
and he'd learn how to hunt and he'd be able to like survive. It's
like no, no, but dog would be like, where's the water bowl?
I mean, to be fair, your dogs big enough at least that
it wouldn't get murked by like coyotes or something. Oh, your dogs would
be fucked My dogs. Fuck? Yeah, your dogs are like prey.
Yes, they were bred to become prey. Like, yeah, your dogs
aren't making it like a hawk is going to swoop in and just aren't big
enough. I looked it up. Don't worry it. Hawks look bigger because
of the wingspan. But that's all. It's all feather, all right.
The hawks way like three pounds. You can't our six pounds a hawk can't
pick up? Do they have like hollow bones? What? What the fuck?
How are they saying it's all feather? I mean, I'll tell us
some listeners. You don't need to do it now, but google another bird
that looks huge is pretty much the same premise here google uh wet owl okay,
and basically an owl without feathers um, it's actually just a weirdly shaved
vagina or the clitteress is a toenail, and it basically who yeah, you
stick it in. It just looks like an owl. Yeah? Gross?
Can it turn all the way around? Yeah? It's interesting. Uh yeah.
So, by and large, though domesticated animals are nothing close to like
what they're wild predecessors are too, or wild counterparts are even like a fucking
rob dog or even my dog looks nothing like a fucking wolf. Like they
just don't look the same. So we're going with that. How quickly you
think your dog in particular, because your dog is both large and young ish
still like your dogs too old? Your dogs fucked too really like the heat's
getting your dog. He would also get my dog, you know, but
like remember that scene in the only season I watched of the Leftovers or whatever,
where like the wild dogs were like the dogs, like a bunch of
people who disappeared their dogs. It just become a wild pack of dogs like
eating fucking deer and shit, Oh that's kind of cool. Well, I
actually that would make kind of sense, Like how quickly would they go back
into that and the packs? I feel like that wouldn't happen. Actually,
I feel like they could go back into packs pretty fine, because dogs do
maintain a certain hierarchy no matter what. That's it. We'll actually get into
this. This is one of the reasons why we think they were able to
be domesticated so easily. Yeah. So um, we'll start just kind of
with the timeline first, and then I'll go into like the four major theories
on how domestication happened. If your purest in domestication theory, right, So,
two hundred thousand years ago is when we start seeing anatomically modern human beings,
right, right, So that's two hundred thousand years ago. Since then,
not much has changed at all. Dogs are basically a rare exception to
evolution because it usually takes like millions of years for things to have noticeable changes,
Like, so it took millions one hundred different breeds or something, right,
Yeah, so uh for us, it took us up until two hundred
thousand years ago to get to where we are today, and not much has
changed since then. Yeah. Uh, we don't see proto wolves, which
are like the wolves that probably came out of the den and interacted with us
on more than just a hey, we're an enemy to you, right,
So we don't see them until about thirty thousand years ago. And in that
thirty thousand years, think about it, how much that wolf has changed.
But that's not thirty thousand years for a wolf. No, that's but once
we start when you but when you go count by generations, right right of
course, So really like year doesn't isn't A year isn't. But what I'm
saying fact measurement of time for a dog or a wolf or whatever. It's
only it only really matters for human beings. But it's still so fast because
untouched completely. Like, so think about it, we had modern humans two
hundred thousand years ago. Granted it's a shorter lifespan, it's forty years versus
you know, I don't know how often ancient humans were popping out babies.
But I would assume anything, even prehistory is still probably affected in terms of
like Jiflengke by the birth by the infant mortality rate. Okay, right,
so if you if you take out all the infants, like if you make
it to a point where you're going to live, like it's certainly like prehistory,
precity, pre agriculture, the life expectancy is shorter. Yeah, but
you know, like it's probably still in the sixties or late fifties because like,
once you get past a certain point, you're pretty much fine, barring
an accident or running into a new person who's going to cough some weird shit
on you. Yeah, that's fair. But okay, so from so proto
wolves or thirty thousand years ago, we don't actually see domestic dogs until twenty
years so inten just ten thousand years, right, they were domesticated, So
that's human influence a little bit, but we're not one thousand percent sure on
that. We don't know what happened to make them go from these proto wolves
these things I just kind of were like, hey, we're not going to
kill you. Can you throw us a bone maybe to a full fledged dog,
which is something different than a wolf. It's something with a shorter head,
a little bitch, yeah, exactly. Little. We don't actually see,
um, and this is just timeline again. We don't actually see specific
breeding until probably about ten thousand years ago. Okay, we don't see trait
breeding for another ten thousand years, but the development and the quick turn time
is pretty amazing. So we don't see anything deliberate with the evolution of dogs
until probably about ten thousand years ago, maybe fifteen, on the Zokoff Islands
of Siberia, and this is that's where they started breeding them. That's the
earliest evidence of dog breeding for specific traits is known. How long ago?
Ten thousand years ago, ten to fifteen thousand years so the right one we're
walking over into the Americas. Yeah, and that was actually the first doodle.
Ah, that's how it happened. No, it's not. It was
two wolves fucking and a golden doodle came out there and they sold them for
seven thousand dollars, papered and everything. It was crazy. Yeah, they
jumped right into it. Yeah. No. The Zocoff Islands though, Um,
so the people that lived there are the I think only archaeological society,
like the only society archaeologists have found that hunted and eight polar bears without arms.
So wait what they didn't use spears, they didn't use any sort of
had zero arms. Yeah, but they didn't use like rifles or like high
powered weapons, basic basic, basic level tools at that and a lot of
them weren't even using weapons. They think they were breeding these fucking dogs,
these giant wolf dogs to fight polar bears. So they had two kinds though.
They had ones that they assumed were polar bear fighting dogs and then sled
dogs. Like the sled dogs had to be a little bit more strong.
This was sheer volume because yeah, multiple wolves. Well, what we're talking
about year is a bunch of Sherman tanks against the tiger tank. Yep,
and you're gonna lose five or six Shermans a fight. But that okay,
yeah, I mean that's worth it though too, And that if you don't
love the dogs, I guess you love living forever off one haul of polar
bear. Like, yeah, that's like you're making it the rest of the
year on that polar bear. Yeah, just the fat alone is you're good,
Like, think of the fur you get from it, the bones,
the tools, like it's lose ten dogs. At no point, at no
point where they're like we should start using some of these polar bear teeth to
murder other polar bears. No, they were like, let's getting the dogs
fuck like crazy. Yeah, dude, they're done. Yeah, they're just
making us. This is really this is prehistoric Sherman tanks versus tiger tank.
Yeah. So they have like look up the jokof island dogs. They are
massive. They're pretty close to what like I want to say. They think
the closest now breed is like was that malmot? It's the big the big
one, Okay yeah, um but yeah, most bottered breeds only go back
about four hundred years. Yeah, so they go look at go google to
the our listeners, go Google, like what the breeds looked like one hundred
years Oh my god, Yes, the fuck bulldogs existed because they looked amazing
one hundred years ago. Yeah. And this is what I'm talking about when
you're like, well it was only thirty thousand years not for the dogs.
Yeah, like you gotta count generations not years. And for the dogs,
it's like ten x bulldogs like are spending on Charles Darwin scrap. That is
a bulldog. Like one hundred years ago. I'm showing a picture to Dan.
They had breathing problems. They still breathing toblems and stuff, but nearly
they weren't monsters there the fucking slashot bulldogs like literally not what bulldogs look like
today is like the ripley monsters in Alien Resurrection. That's absolutely true. Like
bull And don't get me wrong, I do not dislike bulldogs, but they
probably shouldn't be wouldn't one. Yeah, I'm not like going to a breeder
for it, sorry Jack, Yeah yeah. But also like, oh my
bulldog had a heart attack. It the doorbell rang too loud. Yeah,
no, and it died. They can't have no five months old. They
can't have natural birth. Yeah, they have to have cesarean sections. That's
overbreeding. You should not do that. That's fucking stupid. And also,
but like think about this though, when you talk about like dog evolution whatever,
like these dogs can fucking get pregnant after a year. Yeah, right,
so like you're talking about I mean, you have another generation two years
down a lot. Even you're like you can't even think about a whole dog
life like, oh, well, the dog lives like ten to fifteen years,
Like no, no, no, they're they're putting four, five,
six generations after that dog is born immediately in its lifetime. Yeah, so
that's that's actually another interesting point too. We're talking actually how I figured it
out compound interest in school dogs fucking Yeah, I feel like that's showed it.
Non, okay, okay, okay. It's like, so you got
tree dogs here, they they're wild dogs. They're fucking each other down by
the wool, and uh it's pretty good. Yeah no, and then like
spit out, I can't do you Yeah, I can't do it. But
um yeah, so funny you mentioned that enough, Like that's fourty years ago
is when we start seeing like modern dog breeding efforts. And then that's also
when we start seeing dog fucking problems with genetic problems because in order to maintain
the purity of a breed, because all these fucking royals they already did it
with each other, so they started doing it with breeds, right, they
started making birth defects because they were in breeding dogs. Well, the nice
thing about a fucked up dog back then, as we learned during the Topsy
episode, is you just drowned them in a barrel. Yes, you drown
everything in a barrel. Yeah, basically if it's too big barrel to really
make it out. Back then, big barrel was crushing anyone who thinks a
barrel is like a cool thing, like a symbol like oh, Bark's root
beer, you know, like murdered. Most of those barrels were used to
for horrible reasons, either the town drunk or or maybe some gunpowder, you
know, ago kill some whoever, probably didn't deserve to be killed. Yeah,
all right, So we're gonna get into four different theories now of how
thirty thousand years ago dog proto wolves became dogs cat ten thousand years later.
So the first two theories, we're going to talk about our natural selection theories.
The first one is the flight already hate it? Why you hate natural
selection? No? Dan hates if anything, Dan would hate that there's no
longer enough natural selection. Yeah, yeah, Dan's why do you get vaccinated?
Then? Dan? Put your natural selection up to the ten you bitch.
Okay, you're not naturally immune to something, No, but I naturally
have an autoimmune to see. Yeah, anything, if anything natural should be
despite natural selection. No, I overcame natural selection. No, then it's
not natural selection. Natural selection the Robert Lee quote. Again, it's not
natural selection if you overcome it. Yeah, natural selection doesn't work if you
compete it. It's unovercomable. Yeah. No, there's certain individuals that can
overcome. Now, are you about to be like going too like manifest destiny
in your own gene pool? Like what is happening? No? No,
I'm not having kids. Okay, there's a lot to unpack here for dance.
So we're gonna get into the fight the flight distance. I told you
why you should get Kylie pregnant earlier? Why why should he? She wants
some bigger butt that would make her butt bigger. I have a massive donc
Yeah yeah, yeah, I don't know what to do with this info.
Man, I'm really sorry. Like, I wish I could continue to a
better ass than nine percent of people on the planet. I believe that.
I know you have a great butt. That's natural selection. You got naturally
selected to be fat. That's usd thick choice beef. Yeah, anyway,
someone naturally selected that ass. All right, we have some talking about Dan's
but I don't agree about another five minutes. Hey, guys, get a
history of your ass. Yeah, you're just fucking back in nineteen ninety one,
Margaret, And what was your did you have like a yeah, did
you have like a girl in seventh grade moment where you like, you just
came to school one day and you had d's instead of a's. Was there
a teachers all the other girls? I actually got stuck coming out of the
womb. Oh is there from the beginning? Come but first? Yea,
So I actually came out with the cord wrapped around my neck. I came
out trying to kill myself. That's pretty unbranded. Why you've overcome a lot
of natural selection situations. God has been trying to kill you. The odds
are forever not my favorite. No, yeah, but if you always overcome
them, then aren't they dan? You want to know about the flight distance
I bought this is or what souh wolves with less flight distance would typically hang
around human camps? And I'm gonna let you take a reason, uh why
they were hanging around human camps. Scraps baby, yeah, dude, scraps.
So so what you're trying, what you're trying to say is if it
wasn't for litter, Yeah, we wouldn't have dogs, probably not. So
this is a pretty wildly So this is why should litter I just yeah,
okay, Actually littering is why a lot of animals get hit by cars,
is because people throw stuff out the window and then the animals come out and
they're like, oh street, trash, street, a dead raccoon it's from
Yeah, typically that or there's no place for the animal to cross the road
at a certain I'm fine with that. But like, also, turtles get
stuck in just kind of the plastic rings. Um, eventually they'll just over,
like they'll get small enough that they fit through those rings. That's how
evolution works, right, so yeah, you're not wrong. Wow that Yeah,
and then turtles will get bigger nostrils to not get straw stuff in them.
Yeah, well eventually that straw stuff's bullshit. Yeah, but literally what
happened is, yeah, like ducks will eventually because like ducks will get caught
in the soda can things or whatever. What eventually will happen is ducks will
do that on purpose and merge into a super duck, a duck king if
you, yeah, a duck king, and they'll take over whole parks.
Okay, oh, yeah, and ducks are vicious, especially that big old
floppy dick comes out there, corkscrew dicks. Yeah. Um, Actually,
if do you know what a rat king is, Dan, you know what
a rat king is from the northeast of Oh my god, if you don't
know who the rat king is looking up southern people. My cousin Sean,
all Right, dogs with more aggression would just kind of like see the camp,
be like fuck that, I'm out of here. There's fire and stuff.
But the ones that were more than likely the outcast of the group that
could not hunt for ship within a hierarchy of a dog pack, They're like,
well, I gotta find fucking food somewhere. So they probably either either
stole it or they were just like not scared, brave, you know,
quote unquote brave to go up to the camp and be like all right,
like dumb enough to yeah, not dumb, just know that they can't hunt
with the other wolves, so they got to go up there. We're gonna
get this fine line between bravery and stupidity. Um. So the basis of
the flight distance theory is that brave wolves, ones that weren't so fucking freaked
out by everything learned to get closer to us. Then there's biotic mutualism,
which is the other one, and that's that wolves and humans are more or
less equal in the food chain at a certain up until a certain point in
time. Okay, so we are tracking animals. We are are hairless.
It helps us with hunting because we don't need to pant to sweat, so
we can run for long distances of time, take short breaks. We don't
need to sit there are It's really weird. People don't realize is we're like
human beings are like one of the best long distance runners in the entire animal
kingdom. That's how we kill shit. It's we just make the other things
tied. Yeah, it's like the gazelle can't go forever. No, we're
not catching the gazelle. We're running the gazelle to the gazelles. Like what
the fuck? How is it still running? Yeah, and we're just like
we're like, um, what's the guy from help? We're the Mike Myers
of the animal Kingdom, Like, we're not spreading at you, but we're
coming. Yeah. No, we have jeeps and then we light them up.
Cool Dan, Yeah, cool man, No, we how do you
not like that? Reference man, we're like slow stocking serial killers evolution just
keep walking towards it, and they're like, what why is he not getting
tired? Tony Ferguson of The Animal Kingdom, Yeah, what's that? It's
okay, no, tell us, it's an m fighter UFC Okay, he's
he's a fucking walking zombie. He's always moves forward. He gets punched in
ahead a million times and keeps walking forward. Nice. Yeah, yeah,
so we probably hunt in the same environments with wolves. They also were really
good hunting, tracking things down in groups. They also had very complex social
groups with hierarchies and communication such as barking in house, and that leads to
cooperative hunting, so we also had cooperative hunting. We hunted in packs as
well. We chase things down as pack animals um more often than not,
probably we would either steal a kill from wolves or wolves would steal a kill
from us, and the more polite ones we would not murder right if they
were like, okay, we'll back off, you know, sorry, Yeah,
we would throw them a bone. The Canadian wolves Oh yeah, sorry,
sorry, yeah, you're sorry about that. Sorry, Yeah, We'll
take a bone, thank you, Like I mean but either way, those
wolves didn't get killed by us, they probably aren't like, okay, well,
so a wolf is less picky, so you can kind of leave them
certain things that maybe the humans will I don't know, I actually don't know
how pretty historic cumans eat. Actually, that's actually you bring up a really
good point. There A lot of people think that in these indigenous communities.
Um, there was a lot of commonality of like they use every piece of
the body of the animal to kill. No very spiritual. Yeah, no,
of course not. If you kill fifteen buffalo, you gotta eat it
all that day, Like you're not gonna process at all. Rotting animals will
start to fucking. The other thing too, to remember is this is like
a horrible thing. I know, but a lot of times when they find
like cats and dogs that have been killed by coyotes, which kind of the
same thing. Um, it's not that they're like stripped to the bonus that
their insides are taken out. Yeah, so they eat all the internal organs.
They don't necessarily like rip off all the media. Yeah yeah, but
we're more into the you know, the cuts and meat, right, Like
we're not eating the intestine per se. I guess we could grind up the
bones too, but like they like the bone marrow and sit as well.
Like eating bones is probably something that was reserved for dire straits in ancient civilizations.
So more than likely we had a bunch of bone piles laying around.
Yeah, so dogs we take the ship toss on the bone well and even
then, but they just better at eating in two like even just like tendons
and anything like. Don't like they had like small plate restaurants where they would
get bone marrow and then it's just like there's no wayer to go off of
with you, there is no but you're pushing forward. I'm trying to push.
I got a lot of information too. I actually bet there were plenty
of prehistoric people that cooked with fat and bone even bone marrow and stuff like
that. I actually think that, uh, prehistoric cooking was a lot more
sophisticated than we probably gave it credit for considering that, Like the Babylonians had
like all kinds of uh, like incredible cheeses and like cheeses and stuff like
that. But I think like everything, uh in the Middle Ages, everything
just got lost. All the recipes, everything got lost, and everything became
porridge. It wouldn't it wouldn't actually be wrong to say that a lot got
lots in the Middle Ages, I mean, like especially to the Dark Ages.
To everyone's nying. Depends on what you're talking about. Like medieval Italy
didn't really lose any like that type of stuff. Well, they were documenting
everything. Yeah, so you're more talking about like medieval Germanic, which is
like which was a shit hole anyway. Yeah, they they they they regress
for sure because the Romans left, but like I mean Italy was just Italy,
yeah, like that they were still fine. Yeah. Um, we
probably also learned how to in part of the symbiotic mutualism thing. Um,
we probably learned as we migrated into new territories how to kill the locale or
the local prey from wolves. We're like, oh shit, like we know
how to kill him Paula and stuff like that in Africa, but like as
we're moving into new territories with like Eurasia has just completely different animals. They
have like I I don't buy that one. I don't buy that one because
it's like I feel like, uh, fucking nomadic caveman type of person or
whatever it could be. Like, yeah, there's its neck, Yeah,
stab it in the neck, Yeah, there's its head. I guess I'm
just taking a little bit away from prehistoric humans. Yeah, I feel like
they know. I feel like they could figure it out. Twenty thousand years
ago. Isn't that long ago? No? And here's the other thing too,
is like even still like you think about what we eat or whatever,
like the heart on a buffalo versu a gazelle or I don't know, camel
what. Oh, and relatively the same area like middle front. Yeah,
I think I also think you probably notice eyes too, like if you hit
it in the eye, you're gonna kill. Yeah, Like it's brain.
I think I can figure that out. I don't think any of the wolves
to show them. So then okay, those are the naturals. They're going
to hang it on their walls. You can't go right for the head,
that's true, you can't. You can't blast its fucking head off. Yeah,
there's no trophy in that. No, yeah for sure. Um,
so those are the natural selection theories of domestication. Then there's the artificial ones,
which are pure human influence. Um, a lot of people. I
think it's this one, which is we were just trapping wolves, man,
which is like I want that wolf. It's like that one. Yeah no,
but like we were using it for for trapping, So what's really good
for? Um? Apparently what's really good? You see it a lot in
digs too. It's like buffalo first, have a lot of mends with wolf
first, because it's easy to like manipulate and do like quick patches with.
Okay, so we're probably just you know, it's cold out man, like
a prettyhistoric traps. Do you think they just dug a hole? Yeah,
that's a good questions, probably one of them. I mean, yeah,
it's got to be like or the stick, the stick with the box a
little net like mouth. Well. Also, I mean you like we observed
like Native Americans doing this, and I doubt it was a new thing where
you like trick the buffalo and are running off a fucking cliff. Yeah,
you could probably trick other animals and doing that too. Absolutely, I thought
that was only cows. That's buffalo, I mean suicidal cow. Yeah,
I know you times at South Park. I get it. We had to
get one in the South Park reference. Is that what's something we do?
It's we're contractually we gated, Yes, Okay, um. Yeah. So
also there's a lot of archaeological digs around the world where fracture marks from human
tools are found on dog bodies, so like where we were chopping them up
quite a bit, and not just in like one certain part of the world.
It was quite a lot of different spaces. I mean savior Asian jokes.
Yeah, it's I mean, I assume everyone was eating anything that they
could eat given the circumstances of life. Yeah, so this is the captive
wolf theory. And then it's like the ones that were really good or like
maybe we're just were cuter. We're like, m m, the cuter ones.
Yeah, the cuter ones. Yeah, we don't want to hear that
one. Yeah, so we kind of kept them around and they learned to
be around us real quick. Before we get into that more domestication ship,
we need to domesticate this podcast, how so, rob because we got sponsors
that that does that domesticate a podcast people want to pay us. Yeah.
I feel like that makes a podcast domestic It makes us more like we're more
housebrokenstate housebroken, housebroken podcasts. Yeah, that's what that's what sponsors mean.
Really. The first one we have is ghost Bed if you don't know what
ghost Bed is. Um, they are, in my opinion, the best
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I'll get into the technology, but every mattress has a twenty year warranty
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I have two different variations of the pillows, so I have four pillows.
Yeah and yeah. They're all awesome. They're all cooling. Yeah, each
each Ghostbet mattress has cooling technology, as as do their pillows. I haven't
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You look over and you see the car moving and you're not Your brain hasn't
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Yeah really I think so. It's I would much rather be right than wrong
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Like that's that's not even an exaggeration. I actually you dropped off the pair
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to you. Yeah that that isn't from me, right, let's thank you.
Yeah. No, I mean I put those in though, because I
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The other last theory I'll throw you guys is the pet wolf theory.
It's the one that mean you were talking about last night, Rob. Ancient
people started to adopt wild wolf pups. Um, they were just selected for
better traits over time and bread together. Here's a couple of problems I have
with that theory. Is this the Williams one. We're gonna get to the
counter to this counter. Okay, So there's a counter to the pet wolf
theory, which is it's really hard to go into a wolf den and take
a wolf pup. Yes, um, seems not easy. It's probably one
of the worst things you can possibly do is go up to a wild apex
predator and steal it's young from it. Typically, So again, how does
that happen? How is that even allowed? Probably what happens is bowed.
There's nothing not allowed. Oh yeah, good point. I'm just saying,
how how are the other wolves allowing this to happen? Well, it could
be like a geographical thing, like maybe French wolves are just very apathetic thing.
But any girl. She just Sophie's choice of French wolf joke. That
was a good reference. That's great. Um. Yeah, so Robin,
I've talked about this before and it's kind of what got me started down this
path too. Is uh, there is a human condition called Williams syndrome I
think is Williams Buren syndrome. Yeah. Um, it's where people are overly
nice. It's essentially the end. It's the inverse of autism. Yeah,
so you're extremely highly you're very friendly to everybody. Um, yeah, you're
you're kind of like a human puppy develop mentally a little slow you apparently Also
one of the other things is elephant like sort of physical feature. This is
like on they like this from the definition. I'm not like these people look
like elves. Um, yeah, like features and yeah, it's like it's
like the inverse of autism. Yeah, they're overly friendly and um, I
guess a little slower develop developmentally or whatever. Yeah, be like the idiot
way to put it. I mean, yeah, it's like there is a
like just a the slower development is obviously a thing. Um, they have
the developmental level like there, their cognitive development is stunted quite a bit.
So like you can meet someone with it that's like twenty seven. They have
the cognitive development of like a ten year old. Yeah. Um. They
are also very just totally trusting in anyone they ever meet. And so what
they think is that they have actually started to find these gene types in ancient
dogs, yeah, or in more recent They've actually their recent study too where
they pulled wolves and dogs and like tested them for traits. They've done it
like a bunch of times. They're starting to see a similarity in dogs where
they all have this kind of Williams syndrome gene. They can't confirm it,
you know, it's it's one of those things where it's like we'd have to
study it for hundreds of years, but it's a hypothesis. So it would
actually make sense then if for pet wolf theory is like a wolf was just
like oys wolf fire, that's cool, cops some of that meat, and
we were just like, what the fuck is he doing? And the other
wolves are like what the fuck is he doing? Right, and they just
bounced him. Honestly, makes sense for the first theory it plays into.
And that's why I think it kind of makes sense. It plays into the
flight distance hypothesis, which is like that to me is the most likely why
they're just like, oh, well, I'm not scared of them. Yeah,
they're cool and like we they're not aggressive to us, so we don't
care like and they probably there is probably a little bit of symbiotic mutualism in
that too, because they could probably help us tract better. The dogs could
probably better. And also the hearing like they were good alarms yea for someone
else coming. Well, that's another thing too. With the symbiotic mutualism and
the Williams syndrome theory and the flight distance theory, it kind of all makes
sense together, not separate theoretically, It's kind of how most things work.
Why would you get it really reduct Why would you make it so reductive into
one thing? It doesn't make sense. It's not how it goes a little
bit of a B and C I guess tens of thousands of years, yeah,
probably. But yeah, Also, if we have wolves in our places
where we live, like these Tom Williams ones that are super nice to us,
they're not going to be nice to other animals. They're not gonna be
nice. They're going to still protect there. They're young, and so that's
an alarm system for us to know when there's prey around too or just a
danger. Right. So all of that over thousands and thousands and thousands of
years between probably thirty thousand years ago to twenty thousand years ago, is how
just the domestication of wolves probably started, right. Yeah, so that's that
cats. Fuck you don't like cats? Fuck cats? I love cats,
and it's rolling cats. I like, I'm like deeply allergic to cats,
but I want a cat. Lord? What are you and your natural selection?
Bullshit? What do you? Yeah? What's going on here? I
think I'm allergic to cats? Do you? Though? Honestly? I think
they make my eyes that if they have like really long hair. I mean,
I lived with the girl head two cats, and it was some of
the worst months of my life. Did you ever tell her to get rid
of the cats? No? I would never do. That's a good thing.
They were cool cats though, and I think they knew I was allergic
to them, so like when we slept, literally they just sleep right next
to my head. Yeah, because they're cats, and I do Yeah,
there are dicks. That was God trying to be like you shouldn't be alive.
Yeah, I've been. I've tried to strangle you in the womb,
I've tried to shoot you to death. Now I'm trying to shove allergies down
your fucking throat. What's next? At some point? I don't know,
a Chick fil a truck's gonna slam into your car and kill you if that's
how I die. Man, you called it, and I would. I
can't be mad at that. My family cats, why I don't. I
don't even know if it's the what's the significance there? God? Oh right?
God on a Sunday? Yeah, yeah, but chickfully delivery kills you
on a Sunday, You're fucked. Ye, can't be mad? But yeah?
So cats? Right? Um? You know how I said, all
that thing where it's like domesticated animals, everything looks different than it's wild counterpart
cats not so much. Most of all cats were like domesticated from like one
or two types of wild cat. Before we get into this, because I
know you have a lot of information. Actually, gonna keep cats pretty short,
Okay, but either way, what's the biggest cat you could take?
Actually, Dan, I'm glad you asked this. We're gonna have a little
segue for a second from my topic to another topic. So someone on Twitter
asked us, well, they showed us. They showed us graph that graph
of the percentage of American men that the big versus British men. Well,
British first off, British man are kind of betas at this point. Uh,
that's been confirmed by my British female friends who all say that Americans are
way more likely to approach a girl at a bar. That's yeah, because
yeah, all right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna go down a list of
animals here. I'm gonna ask you if you think you can fight it,
no, beat it in a fight, in a fight, you fight anything.
So I mean, can fight a fucking tank. The first level,
the first one I'm gonna start with here is I'm gonna I'm not certain with
like rat. I know you can fucking kill rat, right, I mean
ten thousand rats? Now just one, just one? This is one of
each thing. Spoiler for suicide squad. Chimpanzee. Chimpanzee. Yeah, I
already said no, no, a chimpanzee's way stronger than a bat boon.
So chimpanzee, I'm taking your job. I'm taking two baboons. A chimpanzee
is like a smaller man. Chimpanzee is a smaller height wise, you put
like three five ten x the strength. You know what's weird? You have
to reach on them, you don't. More people think they could kill a
chimpanzee a wolf, and I would definitely rather take it much Rather find a
wolf than a chimpanz. Rather find a wolf, yeah for sure. Like
I don't understand how wolf is lower. Okay, next one, crocodile.
Do you think you could kill crocodile? I'll give you on land? Yeah,
on land, you think, because you know how fucking weak their jaw
is opening. I thought that was just the alligators. It's both, Is
it both crocodile? We're talking African crocodile? Right, they have one of
the ones that like rip zebras in half. Yeah, we're from that.
But like so it's all strategy, it's all matchups. Um, you're on
am, I on land, or you're you know what, you're on the
bank. On the bank, Yeah, you can make it. You can
make whatever the whatever venue you want, you can make it that. Okay,
come on the my turf. Yes, come in the water. I'm
not taking an alligator or a crocodile in the water. Stupid move. Yeah,
okay, but you think you could on the on the land, because
I think both them and alligators have like the obviously they have one of the
shrunks bites in the field, but like opening their mouth once you have a
close Yeah. That's why I like Steve Irwin and all like the people in
Florida can just wrestle gators, but also they can death roll on you and
kill you that way, they don't have to kill you with their mouths.
I'm closing it and then I'm probably all you have to do is fucking do
you have a weapon? This is with your bare hands on me? Oh
yeah, I can kill with my bare hands. It'll take a while.
But I don't think you're taking the crock. I don't think they'll either.
Okay, I don't think so bare handed, but you definitely go for the
eyes. I do think you could kill a wolf. I don't think I
don't kill you kill crocodile because you just poke it its eyes out. That
can kill it. Yeah, it's just the term. It's gonna fucking die
eventually. I guess it'll maybe get sepsis once it goes. I don't know
where it's going. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you could kill
chimp, and I don't think you can kill a croc. I do think
you'd kill a wolf. Shimps are super Okay, it's strong. Wild card
kangaroo so I've seen people box kangaroos. Yeah, I think you kill kangaroo
and kill kangaroo. Okay, they have some small necks too. They do
have small necks, the small heads. Well, there's there's the jacked kangaroo.
There's I'm not taking. I'm not taking that kangaroo, but I'll take
another. I think you could take a jackhangaroo because it's next still small.
Just get on it. Yeah it's true. Just write it's back. Yeah
yeah, just get it behind it. I mean, Joe Rogan said this
weekend, light kicks are changing in the game. Kangaruth throws a light kick.
That's true. Oh that like get fucking foot to your face. Yeah
you're done? Yeah all right, Um, last one. I don't think
you could beat a gorilla. I don't think you think. No, bet
grizzly bear. No, okay, good, what you know what was of
American think they can be. I am fucking frozen. If there's if I
come across a grizzly bear, I'm the last one stand a gorilla, lion,
elephant and grizzly bear. No one thinks they can take that. I
think I can pet the line of death. Okay, you're gonna cuddle it,
Just cuddle it, Come on, big guy. But if it's a
male lion, because female line will mark me. But like a mountain lion
too, not a mountain lion, a lion, it's a lin line.
The lines are more dangerous. The only way you have a chance with a
lion is if you let it. Let you put your hand arm all the
way in its throat. It's gonna start biting you, biting the fuck out
of you. But you just grab on to the inside of that fucking line
and ripping and just start ripping. I feel like you would just go to
rip and like your arm would just be in the line. Still, it
wouldn't be you know, it'd be a right life or death situation. You
are in the jaws of a shark. You survive in that like you're gonna
take the already in the jaws what's in the jaw? How far the sharks
coming at you? Are you you gotta punch in the nose? Yeah?
Not, I actually think statistically it's it's more like ninety ten that you live.
Yeah, a little Joseph Gordon Levitt Cancer movie. Yeah sick, got
a Sophie's choice on that graph. The guy who tweeted that outs I tweeted
back at him about this. Um people wildly overestimate and eagles strength. Eagles
are small and little bitches. Yeah, just let me make the ones that
killed deer. There is an eagle that takes down like uh like teenage deers.
Ter me, Yeah, unless it's that one, like a bald eagle,
No problems that fucking zappados, Like, what the fuck? How big
it's this eagle? It's fucking huge, joel. We looked at up.
I don't remember the name of it, but some type of wild as eagle.
It's in like Kazakhstan, Kazakstan with not a real place in my eyes.
Well that's fun. Oh shit, Yeah, I told you, dude,
the Kazakhstan eagle. I told you this thing like Merk's deer. It's
they like they have like okay, falcon equivalent of or the eagle equivalent of
falconers for these things. Yeah, yeah, it's fucking wild. I don't
know if i'd want to fight that. I'll fight an American bald eagle.
Yeah, that's no problem. Yeah, I got to get rescued fighting the
symbol of freedom. But I'm taking that that's the symbol of freedom so weak.
When turkeys aren't endangered and we eat those NonStop, we should have just
had turkeys as the National bird was supposed to be. It wasn't shit.
Turkeys are deceptive, sneaking a little bastard. You ever go turkey hunting.
I've never got turkey hunting, but I've been around wild turkeys, and they're
fucking weird. I hate them. They're terrifying. They look like aliens,
dude, the way they like it might be they look like aliens and dinosaur.
What's an animal on this planet that you are convinced as like an alien?
Turkeys probably something to watch. Any kind of cephalopod I would imagine,
yeah, or mollusk or anything like that. Um, all right, so
back to cats. All great. Octopus, Yeah, octopus for sure,
that's not what the fuck is that. It's got a beak, po tentacle
like squitch shooting that. No, get out of here with that. You're
telling me that just that came from something. Yeah, what was the genetic
benefit the squirting ink and having a bird beak? None of it makes it
now, None of it's no zero there's something you know, what sucks about
saying that just now some fucking cryptozoologist or something's gonna be like actual or yeah
it's an actual there's an actually answer for it. Well, the actually guy
probably fucked it and probably was in the documentary, Uh, doctor octopus or
doctor whatever the fuck was doctor? Ohto doctor or not doc doc? But
like, there was a documentary just came out about a guy who just kept
deep sea diving and oh myopus, octopus. Watch, it's gonna make me
sad. He was in love with it. I'm pretty sure he fucked that
octopus anyway. So cats, all these animals that we talked about that were
domesticated look pretty different from their counterparts, except for fucking cats. Cats look
almost exactly like the African wildcat, the f libika. Um, I'll pull
it up for you, because it just looks like a big version of a
house cat. It's what does a big version mean? How big is it?
Um? I'm talking like probably thirty to forty pounds versus So there is
a cat you can still get now that is that big. It's like a
fuck I forget the name of it. It's some weird cat. But there's
people who have it, and sometimes those cats will get out and it's a
totally normal cat. It's not like owning a fox or something random like it's
legal to own. That's that's what an African wild cow look's like. Okay,
it's just a bigger cat cat. It's just a bigger ass cat.
They didn't change much at all. And so the reason why I'm saying fuck
cats is I don't think we domesticated them, period. Yeah, they domesticated
at us. They might have domestic They actually did kind of domesticate us.
And it's gonna get real weird here for a minute. So what happened?
How do we get cats? We don't see a lot of like, uh,
I'm not even really gonna talk about like they're just like they're just like
a cute girl at the bar that's like broke, And I was like,
oh my god, who are you? You're so funny. They toiltrate your
brain, like literally right talking about talks about plasmos. Yeah. Yeah,
so they just come up and they're like hi, like I'm you know,
they act sweet, and they get drink you know, yeah, for sure
they get drinks off of you. Well, and then they shit in a
box in your house. Yep. Um cats. You know. Obviously we
know that they were tamed in Egypt. They were tamed probably the most the
old oldest indication of cats being tamed, it is probably in the Near East
around Egypt, and I think southern oh okay, southern Cyprus dating to about
seventy five to seventy two hundred BC is when we see like the first evidence
of domestication randomly. Yeah, probably means it didn't happen there, didn't start
it definitely didn't. That's the earliest remains we see of it. So where
the fuck did they come from? There? It's not like they just showed
it up. They probably were brought from the Egypt was a full functioning civilization
and seafaring seven thousand, seven thousand years ago that you said seven thousand BC,
Yeah, I mean the Old Old Kingdom starts at like nine thousand.
If they came from an island, then I guess Timothy Dexter kind of had
it. You know, I was working with a little bit more than we
give him credit for sending cats to another island. Yeah, he's probably sending
cats to Cyprus seven thousand years ago. I mean, we don't know all
of these to say otherwise. According to a recent study by Claudio Antoni,
cat domestication took place in two strains though, so we know for a fact
it was one place in North Africa and also one spot in South Southwest Asia.
Same kind of cat though, so like pretty much just like the same
kind of cat were domesticated over two different instances twice, like in different periods
of time cats were domesticated. Yeah, they're not done. No, but
here's the thing that's right when we start seeing modern agriculture start up, and
like they eat pests around grain storage, right, that's what That's what cat
domestication all boils down to. They're eating where the rats were. Yeah,
and when the rats were all one, they just ate our food and so
really, oh well they kept all the cats away, Like let's do that.
And we were actually talking about this and I more or less confirmed it
cats being killed and associated with witches probably led to the black plague, yes,
because they were not eating the grain storage pests. Yeah. So in
the Middle Ages, right before the Black Death hit, and the first black
death was I the first the one that they think for sure was Justinian's plague,
which we talked about in our episode about the worst four years to be
alive or whatever. Um, they think that was probably the first black death
that was in the five hundreds, the big, big, big black death
bouponic plague breakout that happened in the Middle Ages. Um happened because for whatever
reason, the church or some local iteration of the church, certain archdiocese or
whatever, We're like cats are are are for witches and and and so they're
part of the devil and I don't know, just kill them. And people
were like okay, and so they started catching cats and killing them. Why
were like all bishop and papal decisions back then just awful, just like backwards
logic. I don't know. I'm glad we freed the Holy Land, sure
you did? We really know, no one got anything that they wanted.
They sacked they killed the Eastern Roman Empire and and didn't really do anything good.
For the Holy Yeah, there's a fucking nightmare. But anyway, Yeah,
so there's certain sects of certain areas of Europe where like, yeah,
cats at the devil and um her work for the devil and they killed cats
and there were more rats and then the fleas on the rats and um the
plague. Yeah, so that's a hypothesis, it's not it's not like confirmed.
I shouldn't say that that's not confirmed that there's also stone cold fact.
Yeah, no, it's fact now. Um. But also, like Marmont
was the other thing that was carrying played quite a bit back then too.
Marmont, Marmont, Marmont, Marmot, Marmot. Is it Marmot Marmot.
I don't know. It's one of those things. Yeah, one of the
things that started COVID fucking Also alien animal, don't know what scaly ant eaters
flop, it's sand shrew, it's it's it is But with the art reference
there, yeah, but has an art vark nose yeah yeah. Um.
Also platypuses are oh you mean the mammals that lay eggs and are poisonous.
They are poisonous, yeah, but have no but have no natural predator,
don't so why is it poisonous? Don't fuck with it? Yeah, just
don't. Don't ask questions. Keep walking. I can't take If you see
a platypus in nature, walk away, I'll kill you. I'll kill a
platypus, But I'm he's gonna take me out on the way out. You
know about if I talked about in the podcast for the Russian guy who was
killed by a beaver, did you find beaver marks? He was filming a
beaver and the beaver ran up and bit him in the leg and severed his
femoral art rate. You look at at brouh and that's the last led out
on a gravel road. This is the last one. Yeah, I mean
no, it's I've seen the video. Is that like a snuff film?
Technically? If he's filming the beaver and the beaver kills him, I guess
I don't know. You can. They might still be online. You can
google it. Pardon me, I'm gonna look at that. Yeah, that
was just something nucky. That's like Sean Taylor getting shot in the leg.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But last last thing, just real quick about
cat domestication. There's really not much to cover. It's kind of amazing.
It's like, yeah, they did some spectication. The midges tabby cats are
showing up for a pattern specificity, but really all they ever did was hunt
little rats and shit. So like there weren't like work cats and hunting cats.
No, they have no useful purpose like keeping pass away. Yeah.
So there was one other domestication event that they think might have been happening in
China. Um, it was a potential instance of cat domestication. This guy
studied skeletal remains of cats in China and found that there may have been a
short lived domestication of leopards in China. That's imagine why it was short lived.
They were trying to domesticate leopards. Yeah, unless they were like tiny
snow leopards, I can't imagine that's the way to get Probably quite a few
eating children. Yeah, a lot of times during that period too, there's
a lot of like missing finger people like people are just missing Interesting, what
a coincidence. It's like, huh, maybe not the best thing to domestic
That's why I was so short lived. Um well, they probably at some
point we're like, wow, if we got this fucking big asked wolf to
do it and that's because this big ass leopard to do it. That's all
the domestication talk I'm gonna do as far as like theories and just the processes
of it, Okay, because this is I'm literally just taking you down my
rabbit hole. I did a week right. Um. Then I was just
like, what are the dumbest things anyone's ever owned as a pet? Okay,
and we're gonna end on that because there's some of my favorite are in
here. Perfect. Yeah, I like this. All right, We're gonna
talk at the chimpanzee. Lady Chimpanzee, she was a little modern pretty much.
She extremely modern. The one who was giving her chimp like prozac and
shit, is that is that not Jane? No Jingo Doll was not giving
them good at all. Yeah, Actually lady was not giving gorillas SSR eyes,
So no. Uh. The first thing we're gonna talk about is Lucius
Linneus Marina. He was a Roman council in sixty two BC. Uh.
He was notorious for keeping six thousand more eels as pets and special pools around
his property and uh guess what you used to was for fucking killing slaves.
He threw felt like a murder situation. Yeah, he threw slaves into the
eel pit and they would eat the slaves. Yeah, they would feed them.
They would feed them live slaves. Immediately. I didn't haranha situation.
There wasn't video footage of it. Yeah, but um I imagined it wasn't
like there wasn't a fresco or a mosaic of it. Yeah, there wasn't
a what is it like a not a nickelodeon, but a viewfinder, Like
if you run past the stone drawings fast enough, do you get a view
of it? Uh? Yeah, No. So we'd feed them the live
slaves. And are all eels electric or is that just a specific eel specific
type? Yeah, that's actually not even an eel. The electric eel's not
a neil at all. Well I've been lied to, Yes you have.
Actually, he was so known for keeping so many eels that his surname Marena
is actually the genus name of twelve species of eel. Oh wow, yeah,
well that's fun for him. Glad, glad. He has a good
history. Weird that, like the annals of history littered with like something that
you're like, oh, I wonder why that's called that? That eel has
called that genus. Why, well, it's one console. He really liked
feendus slaves to six thousand eels. Maybe cancel that, gay, Yeah,
maybe we cancel that type of deal. We're gonna show him. Well,
I think it's okay because the Romans took slaves of all color. Yeah,
not just one color, all color. So he's fine, he gets the
pass. That's fair. Yeah. Um, no, slavery is off.
Do we take six thousand kneels over ten thousand rats? Oh? Water,
if it's outside of the water, I got it. I got the six
thousand eels. Yeah, no problem, in a chair and let them die.
Yeah, all right. The next funny, The next funny pet is
Uh so the pope Leo the tenth was coordinated. God, please let me
say the right coordinated? Uh? Collorination Yeah, coordinated. Uh, he's
coordinated. Popes are coordinated. There, there's no coordinated by popes. Yeah,
popes aren't coordinated. I don't know what the term for pope ye like
white smoke is released, white smoked it? Yeah, the Popelo the tenth
was white smoked, and coordinate is the correct term just in general. But
that's not what you do. He had send it the pope anyway, Yeah,
the white smoke went out. Leah the tenth is out of the pope.
He received a white elephant and in fifteen fourteen from King Manuel the first
Portugal who had obtained it during travels in India names Hanno. The elephant was
well trained and able to understand orders in Indian and Portuguese. So this would
be like probably on the on the cost of captivity to domestication. But Hannah
died after seven because they didn't know how to keep it alive. Yeah,
they can get medicine with gold in it because they thought I was a magic
elephant, right, because it was and died. They're supposed to live.
There's one thing the Catholic Church respects. It's magic. Yes, of course,
so you have to do what the magic elephant wants. Clearly you need
in order to survive as a domesticated elephant. You need like Instagram girls comment
over to your country and just riding them for you know, several hours,
sure, taking photos. I rode this tortured animal. That's the thing.
You're not supposed to ride the elephants, right, they're all fucking like not
happy about living that life. Yeah, they should do that. Yeah,
you shouldn't do that. It's way different by the way, with horses.
So like I've seen this on Facebook now yeah I am uh yes, they've
seen this on face from time to time when people like fuck these people,
these carriage people who like make the horses do that like they are. Probably
there was a time in history probably where it was kind of shitty to capture
those horses and make them do that. Time is long gone. Yeah,
these horses have been bred for thousands of years at this point, into or
even hundreds of years for this point into where they actually enjoy doing the job.
They like know how to do the job, and they go if you
just like leave them in a field, they go fucking insane and live shorter
lives and get stressed out. Yeah, because they're being underworked. Yeah yeah,
no, it's like work dogs go nuts without the proper yeah, like
stimulation. Um. Also, people are like, I can't believe we'd shaved
these sheep for their fleece. It's like if we didn't, they would be
fucked. Yeah, we've read them to overproduce this stuff, so if us
not shaving them for hot yeah, they would fucking die. Like actually have
those videos on the dodo a lot, or to be like someone adopts like
a neglected sheep that just looks like a fucking nightmare. Yeah, that's just
like a nappy ball. It's like grease. Yeah, and it's disgusting and
they need to be sheared in order. So yeah, I mean, I'm
pretty sure Hannibal wrote his elephant into battle. That's a battle elephant. That's
different. Yeah, the chough elephant. Yeah six, they all pretty much
died in the Alps, by the way, I'm pretty sure they would all.
I mean those little narrow like sidewalks, imagine it's like trying to drive.
Weren't a lot of roads in the dn't. I'd imagine just the elephant.
The choice of dan if you could, you do the Elephant's a great
was a great war tool to a certain extent. However, huge target.
Uh you don't march it through you just, yeah, you don't. That's
not how you use it. I was gonna say, why would you use
an elephant to go through a mountain? Now you don't. That makes no
sense. And also elephants were like a funny war tool because they were really
easy to spook. Yeah, mice, Uh, yeah, pigs too.
Yeah. Oh really, there was one tactic and I learned this total war
so I don't know how accurate it is, but it is slightly accurate for
sure, but that they would send, Yeah, they would send to spook
the elephants. There, it's a war pigs at them. Oh my god,
wait a minute, is that what the Black Sabbits do? You know
what a war pig is? No, what's a war pig. It's a
greased up pig the light on fire. So they would just send They would
grease up pigs and light them on fire and send them at the elephants,
and the elephants would freak the fuck the elephants who know how to handle that?
Yeah? Yeah, the elephants were mentally equipped to handle that? What
just happened with because like, elephants are pretty smart, Yeah, they recognize
faces and things like that fucking pan fried bacon running towards you. Yeah,
he's like it smells grit. Oh no, yeah, what did the humans
do this time? They sent a little flame piggy umping on their own people?
So, uh, sixteenth century astronomer Tycho God, I'm gonna say this
wrong, Tycho Brahey, whatever, Brahi had a pet moose, who had
a reputation as a party animal that could drink any of brad He's human friends
under the table. Um. But yeah, probably Yeah it was a fucking
moose, right, so yeah, it got too drunk at a party though,
and fell down some stairs and died. Oh I thought it was You're
gonna say, like killed eight people it was a moose, moose or fucking
assholes? Um yeah, Like you don't want to get near a moose.
People don't realize how big they are too, Like moose are gigantic. Yeah,
I've I've seen the like I'll see the videos of it, and it's
like that thing could just destroy like you, that will destroy your car without
trying, Like yeah, um so uh. Napoleon Bonaparte had a Bonaparte whatever
you want to call his, I guess. Wife Josephine favorite pet was a
female ringating that would join her at the bar, or in or at dinner.
The ringating would wear white cotton and reportedly had impeccable manners and a taste
for turnips. She also had other exotic pets, including emu, black swans,
and kangaroos. Okay, see, I'm a fan of like the little
shoulder monkey that you can train to pickpocket people. Yes, yeah, it's
the one from India Jones. I think there's one in Sherlock Holmes too.
I'm sure there's a character with a little monkey on a shoulder. But really,
there's a lot of movies pre like that take place before the twentieth century,
or like the World War two that just yeah, feature a monkey,
a thieving monkey. Ye weird? How do they get that reputation? You
gotta think there's some truth. I mean, I'm almost positive people do train
small monkeys to steal things. Sometimes monkeys do steel shit just in general on
their own do No. I actually did see a video once recently of in
like India or Pakistan or something of like two The weren't trained monkeys. It
was just two monkeys like stealing from these little kids, and one started like
dragging the little kid down the street for a minute, just because the kid
wouldn't give up the ship. I think, so yeah, wow, um,
I don't want monkeys too human adjacent. Yeah, honestly, would you
eat the monkey? No, I'm not eating a monkey. There's too much
there's too much literary warning about that. Yeah, I don't know if I'm
eating monkey what happens if you eat a monkey spot? No, it's not
a monkey's paw that you eat. It's just a dried monkey pot. It's
like a mummified monkey paw and you it's magical. You can wish on it.
But what if you could like and it's never what you want? No?
Yeah, there's always a twist with the monkeys pot. But what I'm
saying is you ate the monkeys paw, hate the thing. Yeah, it
couldn't be good for you. I don't know. No one's ever tried,
do you What if you ate it and you wished on stuff and it like
tickled your knees? Uh? In nineteenth century poet. When nineteenth century poet
Lord Byron was attending cambridges Trinity College, the university for bade pet dogs on
the premises, Lord Biro was pretty pissed about that because he wanted to bring
his beloved dog boat Swing. So he checked the rules and saw that it
only applied to canines, So he brought a bear to be his roommate in
college in the nineteenth century. Okay, yeah they didn't. They quickly admitted
that rule. Oh yeah, yeah they were. They were like, well,
here's a paid tuition. So first off, bears are great training partners
for wrestling. Look at hibibe. Um. Again, that reference goes over
your head because you guys don't really watch. There were someone that trains with
the bear. Uh twenty nine now, um one of the best one five
ers ever do it. He there's a video of him as a child wrestling
the bear. How big is the bear? It's like cob Okay. Yeah,
but again, I mean, we train these bears to entertain us,
and I think they need a fair shake. What does that mean? Yeah,
fight some one for real? Not I mean, I mean they should
be able to entertain. They should be able to ride motorcycles. I'm sorry.
Do you remember in Techon when there was just a bear in the game,
Well, he was a bear man? No, there was one where
it was just a bear. There was just a bear, and then there
was a lion man or there was a line man. I'm pretty sure,
yeah, But I just always remember picking. I was like, why would
I not pick the giant grizzly bear. He slow? He was slow.
It's very slow for teching, not as good any if that was a real
fight where I got to pick between a live bear and just like I don't
know, Kimbo slice or something like that, right, And that's the thing
that's always an argument that pops up on the internet every five years is like
grizzly bear or polar bear versus like a gorilla. Oh and I like for
a long time, I was always on the gorilla side because I'm like,
he's smarter, he's got the strength to decompress a tire over his head.
Um, Grizzly bear fucks it up, I think so. Polar bear two,
Um, obviously when the bigger, stronger, and uh, but they
do have a coca cola problem. Um, so probably have diabetes. Have
you heard the three rules for bear encounters? If it's black, get back,
if it's brown, get down, if it's white. Could not,
No, black bears are fucking pussies, Like, yeah, black bear,
I mean you just kind of wave your arms like I've seen videos of like
dogs the size of my dogs, like scaring black bears the fuck you essentially
docile. But you shouldn't like domesticate a black bear. I'm sure I actually
think you probably can. Didn't they do that? And more? Didn't we
have an episode where we talked about like a fucking war bear that like in
World War two, they just had a bear he smoked. Probably, yeah,
yeah, they do smoke a lot of stuff happened in World Yeah anyway,
Umi war Like, you can bomb a sig off your pet bear.
That's pretty cool. That'd be cool. If you had a pet bear,
they could go get you six. He probably does. You could train them
to get your say, just go it like here's five like my body in
the fraternity. Um, he trained his dog to get him a beer out
of the fridge. Yeah, we did that too. With the work.
Though, you could easily convince a bear to stop at your local seven eleven
and pick you up a peck milks. It's the liability for everything between the
seven to eleven in your home that's the problem. Like, given him hard
currency, he might fuck it up with his claws, so you gotta give
him the card. Maybe I'll I would actually say, yeah, put an
apple, you just gotta yeah, you just drive you pop? Yeah good.
Uh. There were gators at the Wife how White House. Herbert Hoover's
son Allen, had a pair of pet alligators, but John Quincy Adams was
in office and the Marquis de Lafayette visited the country and gifted he essentially had
pet alligators at UCF. I mean, yeah, we so like Lake Claire
has a lake of alliga. Yeah, we have tons of alligators. Yea
insane Central Florida UCFU where I went to school, obviously, Uh, there's
a bunch of lakes. He can paddleboard and kayak and shit, And we
just knew there were several alligators in the little lake and they would kind of
come up to you and they wouldn't do anything, just kind of like bump
in you. How big were that? Oh? Tiny? Right? They're
not? No, No, there was, dude, there was at least
a seven flotter. It was pretty fucking big. It was terrifying at first,
but then avertised alligator after a while, you kind of like get used
alligators when you're when you're obviously from the northeast, I had no fucking I
mean, you don't want to be around them in general, but like,
yeah, if it's the daytime, you're probably after about two years I got
used alligators. I'm like, these guys are lazy, they don't want to
do that. You just you just don't go out at dusk when there's gators
around, right, Yeah, day gators get yeah dey gators like lazy getting
sun when they mate and when they eat is like dusk, and that's when
you don't fuck with them. Um. But yeah, so John Quincy Adams
apparently would throw it just kind of kept the alligator that the French guy brought
over in a bathtub in the eastern bathroom perfect, and so he would just
let it chill there and not tell people when they'd go to take a piss
over there. See that thing a frenchman gave it to me, Yeah,
pretty sure. I saw that scene in Viva Labam. Teddy Roosevelt had a
whole fuck kind of just wild ass dogs living in the White House. On
Teddy roose had a badger as well. He would just adopt it like any
animal you could think of was living in the White House with Teddy roads.
Badgers are essentially wolverines, right they're but pretty much lawn for a while was
just mowed by sheep. Really. Yeah, we got some redneck history,
huh. At the White House were redeck swamp. Yeah, that's true.
It isn't a swamp. Um. Salvador Dali had a oslot named Baboo and
there's actually a reference that an archer. Yeah yeah, and then um yeah,
there's there's some other weird pets. But you know, honestly, I
feel like I talked about domestication. I went down my weird pet rabbit hole.
Um there's one thing on rabbits that was really weird too, that had
to do with like Catholics being the reason why rabbits are even a domesticated animal.
Now what's that. Uh, someone decided that a rabbit was a fish
and not a meat, and monks were like, oh fuck yeah, yeah,
so so we can eat them, right, they are land fish.
There's this Catolicoi indorset. I don't think there's a difference between bunnies and rabbits.
It's because there's not. I was gonna say, like domesticated pets that
are rabbits or pet bunnies, and then a wild rabbit thing that's the same
thing. Like you're saying, like there's no difference between like a dog and
a DOGO, Yeah there's not. But I'm just saying we like domesticated rabbits.
I guess actually we should call any animal that can't like we Honestly,
kind of didn't domestic. Yeah, you're right. Actually every person I knew,
like as a child, I wanted to get the fuck out. Everyone
had a pet rabbit. It always bit me. That's not run away.
The rabbits there there. They don't like to be I had a pet rabbit
for a minute. They don't really like you that much. No, Like
they will piss wherever, like they did not potty trained. If you put
them outside, they will just run the fuck away to go live their lives.
Man. There was a kid that had like pet rabbits in my elementary
school. He lived on the farm, and like he was like, yeah,
my rabbit died. I was like, what happened is like aunts ate
it? I was like, holy shit, how did you find that?
He's like it was just being eaten by ants in its case, that's the
most fun. Had already been dead then yeah, like the ants didn't come
in and murder kill it. Yeah. But like as a seven year old
or eight year old, I didn't quite understand that. So it's like,
wait, like ants just I didn't have anything on horses in there, mister
horses. Actually a lot of people were like, oh, or horses.
The first thing we domesticate. It's like, no, absolutely not. No,
honestly, the first thing we domesticated. Dogs are by far the first
thing we domesticated, and that's the only animal I think we domesticated prior to
agriculture, the agricultural Revolution. Yeah. So yeah, No, I didn't
really get into horses. I was more I've read about that fox thing.
I started reading about doggos, I read about fucking cats, I read about
weird episode. I could talk about horses, but yeah, I didn't.
We go, Um, what's one animal, if you could domesticate it,
that you would like to have as a pet. Oh, that's a good
question, Daniel, and I will answer last. Okay, I guess I'll
go first. I mean I want the fox, and I know it's been
like slightly domesticated. It's like, it's pretty much the message, you can
you can get a pet fox. You can buy a pet fox. Yeah.
Well, there's still one problem with foxes that people don't realize. Yes,
they smell awful like that. We haven't solved the odor problem yet.
Yeah, and they get their scent everywhere, allegedly, like when you bring
it into the house and everything, it'll piss all over and like apparently like
people who do own foxes, like you can smell it from the driveway,
like that my fox living in the house. Yeah, that's gross. I
wonder what the smell is like. So, I mean, yeah, it's
not great, so like full it is not really fully domesticated yet because they
haven't abandoned that fair enough. So you you would go with the fox.
Mm probably alligator. Yeah, let me come on, dude, I'm gui.
Yeah no, I just roll in to work on a fucking it just
runs up. You want like a little Loki crocodile, like yeah, yeah,
yeah, I want like a fucking fat gator. It's like, what's
up, jeth Row? You just want to be Yeah, you get I
mean it's not really domescut. I guess you just get a small camen and
I don't want that. Yeah, I want one that does like tricks and
hangs with me on the couch. I can pet. It's a little weird
scalely head, that's what I want. You just want to be that scene
in Atlanta when he goes to his uncle's. Yes, it's like, don't
go in there. You got a gator. I would go jaguar, Jaguar.
Yeah, jaguars are sick. They're cool animals. Um, so if
I could train him to like just come back with prey or like, oh
cat, change, change jaguar. I just want big cat. Yeah,
giant cat that's gonna fucking mark whatever it stalks, and it just brings you
back some leftovers Like that would kind of suck tho, like you're like,
oh, yeah, brought me a gift to it, and you go outside.
I don't think that's domesticated though, right, it doesn't hurt humans,
but like you can hurt animals, and I would argue, like back to
your your whole cat point, like they still do that shit. Yeah,
like when you release a dog, you're saying like they would probably not survive
because they're so used to being fed cats. No, no, oh,
And we never talked about toxoplasmosis, which I will real quick. Cats have
a chemical in their peat that makes other things want cats around. So it's
a it's an evolutionary thing that makes letter box in the house. That's how
cat ladies, they think, become cat ladies. Yep, they just keep
accumulating cats because the toxoplasmosis of their ex material brain. They deprogram you too.
Or they program you to want more cats. It's pretty sick. That's
pretty. They probably domesticate us more than we domestic pretty sick, both in
a cool way and a horrifying gross way. It's sick and in every possible
meaning way. They deprogram us with their feces and piss. Yeah, yeah,
into being like what is that? Oh that animals? I will say,
if you could fully domesticate like a cool like little monkey, I would
like that, dude, like in a naboo situation. Can people have done
it a little bit? What'd you guys learned today? I learned that are
we did we forced dogs to be our friends? We might have there's a
possibility. No, I think the opposite. I learned that the answer is
always complicated. Yeah, and it was probably three like yeah, well,
yeah, we did partially make dogs be our friends, but also they were
partially they were partially like oh look I can go get from them, like
honestly, and the Williams thing, the only thing that the only hole in
the Williams argument is that in a lot of ways, the smartest, most
adaptive animals take the easiest path. Yeah, so why would they be why
would it be Williams if like, why would these animals suffer from some sort
of canine version of Williams if they took what was clearly the path of least
resistance to food and comfort? Yeah, they're like, whoa these guys.
That's all we gotta do. Is that sounds caught natively advanced. Yeah,
also for you know, tens of thousands of years, if we've evolved together
as a unit, us and dogs and wolves and everything. People that don't
like dogs, what's wrong with them? Yeah? They're fucked up. I'm
at you, Veronica, you hate dogs. There's also another grand Next employee
or an employee, but grand Next person that uh didn't like dogs either.
I heard who is that? Well, I'm not gonna say their name.
I don't know if it's true or not, but ronic has been on the
show multiple times, so you know who she is. Not a fan dogs,
dogs, even my tight dogs don't get it. Yeah. Loves cats
because you know what cats can probably because cats aren't needy, they're independent,
because get Pete on her brain. Yeah. Well, uh, I'm Jake
Goldman. Thanks for listening. Oh hey, guys, please give a listen
to uh, you know, the back catalog As Dan mentioned, give a
listen to the other history podcasts on the Drinking Bars network. I Conna Blast.
Thanks again. Subscribe to both of our review We're actually go to the
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Uh, he gave topsy titties. Yeah, like it's a chick,
It's a chick, tops titties. Well, I'm Jake Goldman. I mean
like just two human titties. And for Rob Fox and Dan Vilchester, he
just got soft ser