You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
episode number three fifty two. A day without filmmaking probably wouldn't kill me,
but I wouldn't risk it. Anonymous broadcasting from a dark, windowless room
in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the
Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you
how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your
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today on the show, we have a very interesting story of a DIY filmmaker
who taught himself how to make films doing skateboard videos, you know, really
really low budget music videos and just kind of like hacking away until he got
a chance to not only work on huge music videos, but now he's working
and directing Hollywood studio features. His name is Matt Stosky and Matt is the
director of the new Blues Clues film that just got released on Paramount Plus.
And what he was able to do with the budget he had is pretty remarkable,
which makes sense being a DIY filmmaker. But we got into the weeds
about how he came up, how he kept going when everybody was saying no,
all the challenges he had to overcome to get to where he is,
and so much more so, without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation
with Matt Stosky. I like to welcome to the show Matt Stosky. Hey
do, Matt good. Thanks for having me as you to me ya,
thank you for having Thank you for coming on the show. Brother. I
really appreciate it, you know, I was. I get pitched on the
show all the time for people to come on. And I heard your story
of the DIY beginning of your career, just kind of like hustling it out,
grinding it, doing the these crazy music videos to get started, and
then all the way to uh where you're now where you directed your first feature,
first studio, The Blues Clues, uh spider Man far from a Far
from Home or yeah, no way home version, which we'll get. I
love the meme treatment. Oh my god, there's people. The Internet is
a great place sometimes, you know, you know, sometimes sometimes it's a
beautiful place. Sometimes every once in a while everyone as well. So my
first question is how and why, God Screen Earth did you want to get
into this insanity that is the film industry? Oh man, I wow,
why did I want it? That's that's a question. I've probably never been
asked. I think I was just I was into it because, like a
lot of people, I was just making stupid short films with my friends.
You know when you're young, you know, running around the woods making horror
movies. Got what wasn't called The Hacker. Was was like my first stupid
horror movie. I made it my friend Mark. And then another reason was
because I just had access to equipment. You know, my high school was
a cousin o in Warren, Michigan, and we had a radio station,
TV station, and we would you know, the second half of your day,
you know, your fourth, fifth, and six hour, you just
go to the radio station. It was like this red place where there's like
stickers on all the walls and like my teacher had green hair, and we
just got records from all the record labels. They would send it to all
the radio stations first, and we were like a high school station. We
weren't even a college station, but we had access to all this red music.
And that's where I learned how to edit by doing like radio dramas.
So I did a lot of like audio editing, and I learned how to
shoot local bands because we would be able to rent out cameras and we would
just go shoot bands. So that's kind of how the music video things started,
was at my local like radio TV station. So I guess that's yeah,
that's beginning. That's how you got started in and put I gotta imagine
that the second you decided to go to be in a filmmaker, that all
the money came in and you were living large and life was good and it
was everything was easy. You got yets is all the time, right,
Oh yeah, the I have to. I'm trying to sell my fifty yacht
because you know, I gotta, I gotta for THEA for tax resist for
taxsess, I understand, I understand. I too sold my seventh yet last
week. It's fantastic. Yeah, it's sacky to have too many, you
know, it's to have too many exactly. But when you got started it,
I got to imagine during those early years, there was a lot of
rejection and a lot of just like not you know, you you're talking about
doing music videos, which I'm assuming a lot were free at the beginning,
just to get reel up. What did you do to keep going when that
door just kept getting slammed in your face? Yeah, that was I mean,
I think when when you're young, as long as like I had Final
Cut Pro and I had my parents computer, you know, and my friends
and I we threw our money together. I mean, yeah, we borrow
a gear from the school, you know, to to shoot stuff. But
we also bought like DX one thousands and VX two thousands, like those skate
video cameras. And as long as we had a camera an editing gear,
we were able to you know. I mean, yeah, the band in
the lay would be like, hey, we got five hundred bucks for a
music video. I'm like cool, that's the gas to get to New York,
you know, And that happened multiple times. But like you know,
at the time, like I don't know, everything was cheaper. We were
all, I mean, high school, we're living at home, so don't
have any bills to pay. But when I got to college, you know,
we were able to really stretch a dollar, you know, so we
would shoot tons of stuff on like five hundred dollars one thousand dollars budgets.
I remember we got like our seven thousand dollars budget, and our mind was
blown. For this video for this band called Evergreen Terrace. They're like this
hardcore band from Florida. I'm still good friends with Josh James, who's in
that band. He's actually getting into videography now and I'm kind of helping him
with that. But but we got seven thousand bucks to shoot that in Detroit,
and we used all the money to get like a real Chapman Dolly and
like sixteen milimeter you know, camera, good lenses, some real lights,
and it was me and like two other guys in a makeup person and we
hauled it all up to the roof to this rooftop like ten stores, like
literally a Chatman Dolly a chat Yeah, we had We had like no no
PA's or rips or electricians, aything. We just did it all ourselves.
And so it was it was a lot like up until the point where I
was like actually doing music videos and record labels, I was still like wrapping
up all the chords and putting all the lights away, you know, like
everything you could do on a non union shoot. We're just used to it,
you know. So we had tons of situations where even though we were
we we you know, you write a lot of treatments and you get rejected
a lot, but those treatments, those times we did get the opportunities,
even if the label at five hundred bucks. You know, like we just
had to be creative, you know, we just had to learn how to
shop in a fabric district and learn how to go to a party supply store
and get confetti poppers, you know, and just like weird things to add
production value to a video when you can't build sets, and and really like
you know, the city of Detroit, like to scout the city and find
the cool alleys to shoot in, and find the picturesque areas and shoot when
the lighting's good and all that stuff that, you know, the gorilla filmmaking
stuff. You just kind of learn it on the fly. You know,
I'll blow your mind because I'm a bit older than you. So in the
nineties. In the nineties, I remember working on three hundred thousand dollars budget
music videos with which was low and third third string artist, not even the
top that's not top level, that's not the Taylor Swift of their day.
It was third string. They were the backup singers of the real people who
were the label was trying to get out. I remember specifically, and I'm
like two, seriously, there was so much money yeah in Miami. No,
less in Miami, not even in New York or LA. In Miami,
yeah, where you don't have access to like multiple rental houses and stuff.
And that was I mean, I would I think that was the biggest
budget I ever. I mean I did a commercial that was bigger, but
music video wise, like the Disney videos videos I did, like the Kid
videos, those were that was the budget and that was considered big. Like
we're like, whoa, we could shoot two days and set on one,
you know. But but I mean, yeah, I got into the game
right when it was just doing this. But a lot of the you know,
I heard a lot of stories from you know, a lot of eighties
and and uh kind of electrics I worked with, you know, being on
the set like the Michael Jackson's jet where he didn't show up and it was
a forwardy shoot and everyone got paid full rates and they just sat around that
you know kind of thing. And right now, so it's just so much
money, It's so much money was coming on it was insane. Well I
mean also to be fair, I mean everyone was still selling you know,
twenty dollars CDs. Yeah, then yeah, there was it was a whole
other different business model back then and now the checks where you get five cents
you know, residuals on Spotify and stuff. You know, so it cost
it costs more to send the check and the check is worse. Yeah.
Yeah, so just sent me a stand We'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor, and now back to the show. Send me a free
stamp, would you do that? That'd be our value? Yeah. Yeah.
So so when you were so you did a bunch of stuff like,
you know, like and I did a bunch of that stuff too coming up
as well, like doing these commercials and stuff like that. I wasn't getting
paid. But when you first had a real client and there was a big
budget, when you walked on set, you had a real crew, yeah,
you know, and that was you're not wrapping cable anymore. Yeah.
What did that feel like like when you were on the first time, you
were on one hundred thousand dollars plus budget, You're like, oh god,
this is real, Like there's a lot of pressure. How did you deal
with how'd you feel on that day? Yeah, you know, I can
remember it too. It was it was like a follow up boy video in
two thousand and eight that I did, and that one was I think like
Pete Wentz was dating Ashley Simpson and I remember there was like paparazzi on and
like, you know, people doing a back, like I think she had
a reality TV show that was filming. There was like all these cameras and
like I don't know, you know, there was the MTV people and the
VH one people and then our cameras and so it was. It was intimidating.
But but I do remember like Pete Wentz had my back, you know,
he saw I did this Anthony Green video that was really trippy with lots
of animation, and that's the reason I was able to be fallout boy,
because he he vouched for me. He's like, I want that. I
want that weird trippy animation style. And so you know, when the artist
kind of you know, has your back like that, all it takes is
to sort of get a couple shots in the can and show the band,
you know, and like show them what it's going to look like. And
when they sort of like how it looks, you just get that confidence boost
and then like the artist is gonna they act a little wackier on set,
you know, and then they you know, kind of give it their all
and everyone sort of trusts you. So it's just I think I think early
on though, in that stage that I'm not going to say fake it till
you make it, but that sensibility does make sense, like you may feel
like you you know, there's some poster syndrome for sure. I think the
main thing about directing that that I've realized, like in the last I mean,
I don't know pretty recently, maybe in the last five years, is
you just have to be the person in the room that knows the most about
the thing you're doing. You know, if you're gonna, you know,
make a music video about whatever Detroit, you just got to do your history
and be able to tell all the executives, all the you know, record
label people, all the artists like, yo, Detroit, this is and
this, these spots are great, this is awesome. You know, you
just have to you know, do your research and know the most you know
kind of the thing. So with music videos, it was all about pre
production, just having insane storyboards and references and film clips and all this stuff.
So when you're on set, you're showing the artists all this stuff.
You know, I guess we didn't have iPads back then, but just flipping
through it like your laptop computer and just showing the record label like, Okay,
this guy knows he's got a vision, and he thought about this a
lot. You know, I hate ed living. I think guy had nightmares
about like coming up with shots on the spot. You know. So yes,
it's intimidating, but if you just like have tons of references with you
and like really tell all your department heads exactly what you're going for, then
it's been that confidence kind of you know, swells inside you. It's funny
though, like literally last week, my daughters were listening to a song and
they're like, what's this song? And and and there's like I'm like that's
that's Sea Little Green. And it's just like I'm like, can we see
the video. I'm like, I've never actually seen the video this video.
So I literally watched the Sea Little Green video Forget You, like four or
five days ago. Well, not knowing that you directed it. Oh cool,
not knowing that you directed it. I just it just it was a
happenstance. The universe just brought that to it. So now it's like it's
fresh in my mind. I just saw it like litterally four days ago,
and then as I'm doing research on you, I'm like, son of a
he directed the Yeah, was that Celo Green? Because that was such a
massive hit for Celo Green? I mean so massive. Was that the thing
that just took your career to another level? It was for sure. I
mean that that's the thing that got me representation. It got me an agent
and a manager. You know that. You know Eric Garfinkeel and Britain Rizzio,
and they're the ones that taught me the narrative industry of the film industry
and got me reading scripts and all that. So that that video was a
big, a big help for me for sure, and we didn't you know,
it was the whole story behind That's really interesting because I was working at
Refuse TV, which is you know, this woman Kathy Pellow runs that.
She also has a record label called Sergeant House, and she's this like incredible
just punk rock woman that knows everyone. She's like knows the New York party
scene, and she hung around with all these I think she was a model
back in the day, and she hung around with all these legends, and
she knew people in the theater in the Broadway World and she was a missioner
for Atlantic Records as well. So when that track was was kind of sent
out, the song was called fuck You, and a lot of big name
directors passed on it, like I don't quote me, but I think like
Mark Romanic and Spike Jones and Chris Cunningham like all passed on it. All
they were trying that arts group, you know, and and she was like,
well, we got like a sixty k budget and we got to do
this in one day, and so I got to like write on it,
and I just wrote that like motown Doopie treatment and he loved it. So,
you know, enter enter sixteen hour day, you know, try to
shoot the thing. A catillact jacks up in the valley and uh and that's
what like kicked it all off. So it was a really good like I
have to thank Kathy Pellow for that because you know, a lot of people
I don't know, everyone's break is always a weird story like that, Like
it was right place at the right time, you know, kind of a
thing. Because she happened to be the commissioner for that for that video,
and a lot of people happened to pass on it. Just because the song
was obscene, you know, the type at a time until they did Forget
You, which they we need some radio play guys. Yeah, yeah,
and it just it had that viral thing because it was like an obscene title,
but it was such a happy going do opposite like like you know,
it sort of you know, made f you this popular memi viral thing,
you know, so it's it's I always thought that was kind of fun.
How that that that that whole thing happened. It was, It was quite
the quite interesting it was. It was what year was that was that?
I mean it was a two dozen and exactly because it still had a vibe
because I remember the nineties when you had the mcg's of the world and the
Michael bays of the world where they' using the cross processing and it really vibrant
colors. You had really vibrant colors in that I remember. It wasn't gone
like a McGee smash mouth video was the end of the day. But it
looked beautiful. And then you mixed in this whole like musical aspect to it,
which was like which is which was the sign of like where you're going?
Because this is what you love musicals? And we'll talk about the musical
side of you in the minute. But it was really it didn't look complex
in the sense of the budget. It wasn't. It was one location,
essentially a few It wasn't that crazy. But it wasn't. It wasn't an
expensive budget. It wasn't. It wasn't. You did a lot with the
money you had. It made it look really good at one locate basically one
big lookat or what's all look Yeah, And we just like it was one
of those things where you just used the look, you used the advantage of
that location and neon lights and the colorful walls, and we just like saturated
all the lights. And there was also something that happened to like that was
the first job I ever did with Lindsay and Craig, my choreographers, and
they did the Blues movie too, and every music video in between, and
uh, we we sort of like we had all the dance figured out with
with the dancers, and that this thing happened when we were playing the song
on set and like people were like snapping their fingers and bobbing their heads and
we're like, yo, let's just let's really lean into the little shop befores
of it all, and even the background you know, all the background actors
that were sitting in the seats, like they just like kept bobbing their heads
almost like Betty Luke. You know, everyone's like moving to the beat,
and they just added this like kind of funny, nostalgic touch to the whole
thing. And I think everyone just loosened up and all the you know,
all the people that were playing all the roles in the film and the different
selos, like we're just real loose. And I think people were just vibing
because it was a good song. You know, you don't always get like
a good song to write. Times you have to do you know, I've
done every kind of video, but that was just a great song and I
ready loved it. So everyone was just bobbing their head the whole time,
and it just we capture that energy, you know, And how did the
town treat you after that? After that video, I booked, I booked
a good you know, I kind of stuffed up as far as music videos
go, you know, and I was able to book a lot of jobs,
and I was really riding that momentum. I think if I could go
back in time, you know, I mean, I guess I I would.
I can't say i'd like change anything about my life, but I probably
would try to use that momentum to push myself more towards narrative earlier, you
know, because I you know, I'm thirty seven now, and and I
probably could have gotten into the narrative world a little bit earlier. But I
just I just kept booking music videos for years. And that's kind of why
I stalled on the narrative thing, because I was just working and like,
yeah, exactly, and he got five you got five yachts, brother,
you got to I mean that's a lot to support. Yeah, yeah,
And after the second yeat, I just had to keep doing the music videos
because the budgets got by. Yeah I'm talking like the paper ones he fold
up, you know, obviously, sir, But yeah, I was.
I was booking some work after that, and it was cool. You know,
it's a good feeling to do like eight music videos a year. I
mean, I know some people like churn out twenty a year, but with
all the post effects that I do, you know, I always was like
editing my own stuff, so it was like keeping me really busy. And
and yeah, I was really busy after that, for sure. That's awesome.
Man. Now we all as directors, there's always that day on set.
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to
the show that the entire world's coming crashing down around you and you don't think
you're gonna make it. You're not gonna make it. And then and arguably
that's every day, but there's generally that one event that really stands out out
of a project. If you don't want to say the project, you don't
have to say the project. But if it's a project, you could say,
say it and what was that event and how did you overcome it?
As a director, I have to say that that's only happened. I mean,
yeah, we have tough days, and yeah we have to like you
know, kill setups and weather happens and things like that. But like the
toughest day it was this video I did for me for me the friend like
Me. It was a Disney video. He was doing a cover of bo
Ad and Song and it was just one of those days where the setup for
everything, we just didn't have enough money and enough people to light this location
and there was this big pool in the middle of our location and it was
so hard to move the camera around there, and I really tried to,
like, I mean, we we at the end of the day, we
pulled it off. But it was one of those days where we really ran
out of time and I had to like kill half the shots, like literally
half the shots. But they were the narrative shots and something inter I mean,
this is this is an interesting thing that happened, and this legitimately happened.
We shot we shot Nao against a wall for the performance stuff, you
know, let him pretty just put like a blue color on the wall and
lit them all orange and we shot a wide beating close up and that was
like the performance coverage. He's an incredible performer, so it was like we
had great stuff and all that footage got corrupted in you know, the cards
or whatever. So the insurance for the production actually covered us. They have
another day of shooting, so we were able to get him on the stage
and light him even better and get even better performances on him, and no
one was stressed out. So all that time that we didn't you know,
all the shots that we didn't get, we're able to get on the second
day because a card was corrupted and insurance actually covers that somehow, you know,
I don't I don't know how that all works. But we got another
day. So that was the most like, that was one of the days
where I realized, like, wow, we're not going to get it,
you know. And the video looks cool. You know, his performance was
incredible. It's all about him. So but I've never had I mean,
I've heard those stories you know from you know, some some more like seasoned
you know guys and gals that I've worked with of you know, the hurricane
comes through and blows the you know, the flags over and then he stands
flying and somebody got injured, and there's like, you know, like you
know, people suing people and all that. Like I've heard of that,
you know before. I've never had like a nightmare day like that. And
I don't know, maybe it's it's a little bit of lock and a little
just being prepared kind of a thing, you know. But well, listen,
when I was putting my demo reel together, I shot thirty five and
I sent it up to uh do art because I'll say it out loud in
New York, and uh they uh the machine broke and burned out all my
egg for two of my spots, for two of my out of the three
spots, I did two of my spots, gone twenty five grand out of
my pocket. And they're like, well, do the new roles again for
free. I'm like, oh really, And I was so young. I
could have sued them. I should have done. I mean, I could
have got. I should have easily gotten because come on, so I had
to go back and that's why my demo real cost fifty grand. But I
lost and I was better. Actually I got back. I got a better
set of DPS. I did it the same thing as you got to do
it again, figured things out differently. It was an expensive lesson, but
it was a lesson. Nevertheless, imagine that. Yeah, yeah, I
mean that's that's I mean I can remember back times like heart, like like
hard drives are going corrupted and things like that. It turned out like whether
my generation your generation we turned into like command saved people, Like I'm always
hitting command saved command say, making double backups and triple backups, and like
sending a hard drive to my parents just so I know in Michigan there's a
hard drive with the thing in case my house burns down, you know.
So it's uh, when that happens, you turn into a worry work for
sure. Yeah, you know, it's in I came up with when the
first avage were coming up, and those things crashed all the time. So
I became an apple save apples of applesde eppisode constantly. It's it's happened.
Now I'm used to the new stuff that just kind of saves in the background
constantly and everything. It is a whole different thing. So but oh my
gosh, I still have all those hard drives too. They just like every
time, big creative stuff. And it's like I don't even think that the
power outlets work anymore, you know, Like but I don't know. I
just I just moved from LA to Austin last a year ago, and I
did that. I had a box of FireWire four hundreds yeah, yeah,
yeah, and I and they all worked, they all ribbed up, and
I just downloaded them all into a solid state drive and just started dumping them
like I don't need this, I don't need that, and then just put
nice drills in holes. Yeah. I just recycled them. Yeah. I
threw on my home recently. My like I had like some sixteens and thirty
five. I can't get rid of mine, and I can't get rid of
mine. Yeah, having in my closet right now, I can't get my
thirty five. I got thirty five sixteen super eight, and I can't get
buckets of them, buckets of these thirty five props. Someday you need it
to like, you know, well, the other day, the other day,
I actually I just retransferred them all to four K or to six K
actually because I did overthing to standard death before because I was like, you
know what, let me go back and take a look at some of that
stuff, and I did I transfer. So but eventually I'm going to have
to I'm gonna have to look. Yeah, I mean because because you know,
our mansions don't have the space for him anymore, you know, obviously.
Yeah, I mean we have to get sat in my West Palm Beach.
Yeah. Yeah. So another thing a lot of people don't talk about,
as fresh filmmakers don't understand is the politics of a set and music video.
I came up later in my life. I was I joined a music
video crew, and I did a lot of big music videos in the post
side, and I was on set, and you know justin BIEB versus Snoop
Dogg, you know, Ludacrous, all these kind of people are coming up,
and I saw the insanity. Yeah, it's insane, like insane on
set with a music video set. But when you started getting onto these other
sets that weren't they were more professional quote unquote, and you had these older
crew members who saw this, kid, I gotta imagine you got some pushback.
How did you do? How did you deal with that? Yeah?
I mean my personality is I'm very passive, you know, I'm I'm I'm
I can say i'm if, I'm if I'm confrontational. It's as kind as
I can possibly be. I know, I mean I had to. I
always knew I was the young I on the set, you know. And
I think anyone's going to deal with that if you're directing, because you know,
you're always going to get crew guys that are, you know, a
little little older than you. But you know, I can't think there's ever
been any like Confett, Like I know there were probably people. I mean,
obviously we've had like our eighteen hour days where you know, pushing people
too hard and stuff. And I learned from really good producers not to do
that very early on because someone gets an accident on the way home. That's
you know, So I only had I had a very short lived career as
far as pushing people too hard and having long days, and luckily I worked
with some really good Like I worked with this guy, Mark Russell. Chef
is his nickname. I don't know if you ever ran. He's an incredible
a D. And he was big in the music video team, like he
worked with Hype Williams and Mark. Yeah, he was like Hype Sky for
a while. And when I got to that like budget range bracket afford him,
you know, he was my a D and he had my back,
and he was one of the you know, like the best ads are the
ones that can like you know, kind of yell and get everyone to listen
to him, but like kill you with kindness at the same time, you
know, like compliment that like when it's time to get the shot, like
let's go. He's that guy, and he he sort of taught me a
lot that I know, and he always had my back on set and I
think that helped a lot with those situations because he was a veteran and so
just like the Directing department being sort of like supportive like that, like he
was able to push back at any of that, you know, like any
credit smirks or anything that came from some of the older people on set.
And and I also, you know, like if you can remember someone's name
and shake their hand and look them in the eye and compliment them if some
you know, some lighting looks incredible, it's not just the dbs, the
gaffer, you know, it's like so many it takes a village every time,
and as long as you, you know, really make sure everyone sees
that their craft is seen and respected and that they're doing a good job.
I think that that's like the key, you know, to to to sort
of getting that respect, even being younger. But I don't know if there
was anyone that was a little bit better just because I was young, Like
whatever, I don't care, you know, I'm too focused on this insane
where there's so many shots you got to get and you have this amount of
time, and the clients like looking over your shoulder like there's too much other
stuff to worry about, you know, So gotcha. Yeah, I mean,
if you have a good if you have a good first a d or
deal good DP to to kind of yeah, to help you with that stuff.
That's helpful, but sometimes you I mean I had guys who literally just
like literally try to try to chut my legs off underneath from underneath me while
on set. So it's a different certain things you just have to figure out.
I Mean, at one point, someone I walked on said thought that
I thought it was a p A. Yeah, m hadn't met me yet,
and they're like, all right, you uh go get the gap service
cod. I'm like, dude, I'm the direct Yeah, that's happened to
me recently actually, because like we'll be right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show. I had a couple like like our
second ad was like like because I just black T shirt and jeans, because
I'm there to work. You know, I'll be on my knees like I'll
and I'll get my hands dirty and I'll you know. It's like he's like
normally the directors I work with like show up like with a suit and a
tie and makeup and their crazy hair and all this, and I'm like,
yeah, man, I'm just like here to work. You know. It's
it's the same mentality, like it doesn't matter if if you're sitting like and
I also like don't like to sit, like I'm always trying to stand because
that was like in music video world. It was like you see a shot
and you're gonna run over and talk to somebody and then like you just can't
be on your on your butt. You know. I haven't had that luxury
yet, you know, so maybe in a commercial I sat because that's like
the bottle. Oh yeah, it's all about like four hours on live in
the freaking bottle, I mean, and the clients they're like and you're like,
just just just do let me know when you want me to el action.
Yeah, but when you got like a million setups in, you know,
no time to do it, like you're just you're running and I think
as long as I mean, and a lot of people see that too.
They see how physical the job can be too, so it's like expect from
that too, you know. So that's true. That that is true though,
is if this cruises you bust an ass. Yeah, they but if
you're sitting on a on a recliner with your caffee latte, yeah, you
know, and and there, but and they're like Hey, guys, I
need you to lift that crane up ten stories. I'll meet you up there.
Not that you need to do it, but they just need to see
that you're it's you're you're a general man, You're a general running running a
unit. And yeah, and they got to see you moving and they got
to see that you're into it. But if if there's pretension, oh man,
it's hard. You lose, you lose your crew, you lose everything.
Yeah. Yeah, and and and that's like that was a big part.
Feel like I never like I was never like posing for photos or like
you know, like yeah, you know, doing the whole the whole thing,
like look at this set we built, you know, like you know,
like like no, you just like you get a shot. You go
you talk to the actors of ours first, then you talk to your DP,
then you talk to your AD and then you you know, you make
sure they know what to communicate to their team and and you just you just
go in order. And whenever the you know, the record label's talking to
you, everyone else needs to like you know, there first obviously, but
but yeah, it's just it's just making sure if you communicate good, I
think you get that respect like if you're very clear and there's no like question
marks or people that confuse as to what they're doing, you know. And
and even if people say you make if they see you make decisions like you
know what, we're runn out of time. We got to cut this shot.
Like if you do stuff like that too, they're like, Okay,
he's not going to like run us into the ground, Like we're going to
get through the day, you know. So yeah, So if there was
the thing, man, if you can go back in time and tell your
younger self at the beginning of this journey one thing, what would that one
thing be, It would be shoot a short film way earlier. Because my
agent and manager like, we're always telling me to shoot a short film,
do a short film, you know you need yeah, yeah, And and
I was, I don't know, I think I wasn't like cocky when I
was younger, but I definitely was like I can just go straight from music
videos to features, you know, like Venture did it? Yeah exactly,
Yeah. And you know my first short film I did was like you know,
with with that looked good was like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, And
I should have done that way earlier. Because and just like learning narrative,
you know, like I think, you know, I learned a great deal
in school. I actually really liked college, but you learn the most from
just watching movies, just putting on the Criterion channel and watching old shit,
you know, like and that's and that's sort of the best film school.
So I think, I mean, I do like to watch a lot now,
and I did watch a lot in college and stuff, but I think
I would have I mean, I have friends that, you know, four
hundred they watch four hundred movies a year. You know, it's like like
every night they're watch a new movie. And I think that's the because that
the influences from all those films is gonna like consciously or subconsciously make its way
into your film. And I think taking taking your references and style from old
stuff is the best way to go because if you take it from new stuff,
it's obvious like, oh, they're ripping off euphoria, they're ripping off
you know, you know, whatever new you know, Tarantino movie or whatever.
But if you take well, Tarantino kicks from all the old so they're
like that's a big circle. It's a vicious it's a Vicious Circle. Yeah,
no, you're absolutely You're absolutely right. That's why, like you know,
pt Anderson stole a shot from Boogie Nights from I Am Cuba. Then
no one had ever heard of unless you had a Criterion laser disc of it
or your Mark Scorcees, your fresor for Copla who produced it or released it.
And everyone was like, this SHOT's amazing, and I'm like, wait
a minute, that's where I am Cuba. Yeah, but it's it's it's
such a great shot. It is so beautiful. You know. I saw
that for the first time just recently, because I'd never heard of it and
I'm Cuba. Yeah, it's just like I saw that one shot and I
was just like, what is this? Like it just how how do they
do it? Oh? Yeah No, And the thing that they did was
how they did this stuff you're talking about nineteen fifties Yeah technology these yeah,
tank of thirty five millimeter cameras. I mean, the tanks weighing a ton
and they're flying them around like they're like an iPhone on the gimbal like it's
i mean just insane. And then from the ceiling from a rooftop down an
elevator, walking around into the water like mind blowing, mind blowing. And
that's why that's why the whole practical way is always the best. Like and
I think people, even people that swear by CGI not seeing good for sure,
and I like certain amounts, but you subconsciously know it's not real,
you know. But when you put that real practical thing there or the camera
really you know, like what in your autube does and what they did in
What's the Good? Oh yeah, even top them. Yeah. I saw
that three times in the theat because I was just like, I know,
this is really happening, and my mind and can you imagine if that would
have been c G. Can you imagine if that was it? It just
it wouldn't have made the money. It wouldn't people would be like, great,
yeah, that's a really good example of something that everyone's gonna hear before
they see that that it was all real. You know. So if there's
like a good I think I think films should definitely have campaigns behind them if
they do pull off crazy practical things, you know, like like even was
that film that came out to Victoria The one shot was a film? You
know, they said like, yes, this actually is a one shot film.
It's not like a Pitchcock floorground pass that we're doing, like we shot
this. I think they did it three times and the second time was the
one they used or something like that. But that was a full They started
at two am and or three am and the film ended at five am.
And it's an actual one shot thing. And I don't care who you are,
if you know that information before see the film, it's going to make
the experience that like when the guy plays the piano or he catches the thing,
or they have the squibs and the guy gets shot, like you just
know, like wow, this was all planned out, you know, and
it's just like, yes, it's another experience. Like seeing the the eighteen
wheeler flip in dark Night. You're just like yep, and you could tell
that's real, Like that's there's no seats, you can't see gi the way
it looks, the motion, the things that are cooking, it's just too
complicated for it to look real the way it is. Did they did they
do a Jackie chan on that and show the crep show it multiple times?
I can't remember if it was like, oh, you mean like what,
I'm sure they did. I'm sure the edit was like that, but it
once it left, it was there. And then I think they probably cheated
a little bit as far as just the edits, but that thing was and
then I think boom boom boom, like they probably amed the down like three
times, like the Jackie Chance style. But you think, yeah, you
think in the edit they were like, oh my god, we have eighteen
incredible angles of this, but we can always show like three, you know,
like they probably I also heard. I mean I can't remember this,
but I thought I saw a viral video where did they shoot that during the
day and they just colored it to be night? No, I think that
was nice at least the behind the scenes. At least the behind the scenes
that I saw was not. So. Yeah, that would be too difficult,
man to day for night is tough in general, like to do something
like that with the like no man. Maybe it's because like I remember seeing
somebody filming it from their apartment and it's like daytime. You know. Maybe
it was the Preppers. I don't know, because they have to you know,
it wasn't. I don't think it was a won er. I think
they I think they could do it more than once. But yes, but
now we're getting Now we're getting into some geeky film stuff. Yeah. So
yeah, when two filmmakers get together, we started going down that road.
I'm Cuba turns into Chris Nolan real quick. Yeah, exactly. So.
So your your features film debut is the new film Blues Big Ced the Adventure.
Yes, how did the guy who directed Fuck You the Blues Clues?
You know, you know, a big paramount release. You know, how
did that happen? How did you get involved in this movie? Then I
have to say it's it's I. I worked with Brian Robbins back in twenty
thirteen. Brian Robbins, Yes, sure, he's now had a paramount you
know, was head of Nickelodeon, had Austin's TV. He when when he
was at austin and TV, I did like a sort of team musical thing
with them called Side Effects, and I just stayed in touch with him over
the years. He then eventually got me like an Aquaphene commercial, and then
I did like a pilot for Nickelodeon with him, and I think the script
was kind of sitting around for a while with Blues Clues, you know,
like they had always wanted to do it. And the timing was right because
you know, Steve went viral last year, and as far as the co
viewing ship, a lot of the adults that grew up with Steve now I
have kids that are growing up with Josh. We'll be right back after a
word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So I think from
a just like promote, like a free promotion standpoint, like like if the
parents are going to watch, the kids are going to watch it, the
kids are gonna watch you know it just it worked out, The timing worked
out, and Brian just called me and he was like, hey, man,
like we got this thing and it's a musical. And I was kind
of in that musical because he gave me a lot of creative freedom. Like
obviously I don't forever want to be in the kids' space. I don't want
to be in the preschool space, but I want to show like, hey,
I can take something with a you know, like an indie budget and
stretch every dollar and make it look like three to four times more than what
we really had, because that's what we had to do in the music video
world. And you know, fingers Crossed, I hope like, like I
know that like our movie is coming out the same day as Disenchanted, you
know, the big Disney tent pole whatever. You know, they probably a
hundred million bucks on that. And if we compete in the smallest degree with
that on streaming, like the smallest degree, if we put a dent in
that, then that's cool because we did have you know, yeah, it
was it was like an any budget, but it was still a lot of
the ways and the technique we used were you know, ragtag DIY ways of
doing things. And so I was I was kind of like, I like
the challenge of it. I knew the brand was important and existed, and
I just had this this, you know, the fact that I was going
to be able to make colorful, beautiful musicals. And with the musical genre,
it's fantasy, so you can break so many rules into where you're going
to do a lot of fun stuff. As far as the fantasy of it
all, I was, I was game and also like I'm not rich,
so I'm gonna take every job I can get, so like literally that's part
of it too, Like I was, I've never been able to pick and
choose my jobs, you know. So it was on top of the fact
that it's an incredible opportunity. Like you got to keep working because in this
industry, if you become irrelevant, it's a hard path back. You always
have to have something like cooking in the oven. You know, there's four
hundred there's four hundred guys or gals right behind you waiting in the wings to
tick over. Yeah, where you left whatever you left behind? Oh no,
boy, when you were coming up is a little bit different. There
wasn't as much competition. Definitely when I was coming up, it wasn't as
much competition. But now, yeah, yeah, because you can you I
mean the you know, the this camera looks incredible. Now you can even
do that faked up the field thing too, So it's like, man,
it's insane. It's pretty Yeah. Can you imagine if we had this gut
technology when we were coming up as kids? Man, especially in music videos
too, you know, five hundred that's an extravagant budget. Yeah, yeah,
exactly. It's funny that this kind of like this has been a problem
sometimes because like my choreographers will film dance and they they they're also directors too,
and they like to kind of test out what kind of camera moves could
work with the dance, but they're using this and when we get on set,
I'm like, well, we can't move that fast this this big steady
camera. It's a dollar or you know whatever. It's like a lot of
times, you know, you have to like slow down when you're when you're
rehearsing things. But but yeah, yeah, it was you know, it
was also just like what a big opportunity, and I just couldn't pass it
up, you know. And I love and I love Brian and Nickelodeon's great
too. My my my partner, Niki Lopez, works for Nickelodeon too.
We just happened to both have projects in Nickelodeon, so it's it's definitely a
good family there for sure. Hey listen, one of my first jobs was
working in Orlando, Florida Nickelodeon studios. You were at the OG, I
was the I used to saw Brian many times walking behind on set. Yeah,
because he was producing stuff back then using all that and yeah, I
to sort of for a a for trivia that no one cares about. One
of my first PA gigs was Global Guts. Oh no, I was on
I was a Spanish translator in Global and Global Guts, so they would bring
in, like the Spaniards and the South American kids, and I would be
the one translated for them, and I was on set there and there's oh
it was amazing. Yeah, I go correct. The Global Guts was the
glowing out right right right, yeah, yeah, it was. It was
a little bit different. I never did I never did guts. I did
Global Guts. It was just always the international kids coming in and man,
it was so much fun. I mean that was we're talking about ninety six.
Yeah, yeah, in the in the heyday. So I remember seeing
Brian, and I remember seeing Brian, you know, on head of the
class when he was yeah, back back, back, back in the day.
No, I've watched his career, man, and he's pretty he's a
pretty remarkable dude. Like he really hustled up to the point where now he's
running the studio. Gotta give it to him. Yeah, No, and
and and everything Nickelodeon did in the nineties was so cool. I mean it's
still it still is, like a really cool like company that takes a lot
of chances. But I was defined by that, you know, this red
and stimpy slime like Nick magazine like all that. It was so different than
Disney, you know, because there was there was Disney, and there was
Nick and us Nick kids grew up a little weirder, you know, And
I would agree with you on that. Red and Snippy would do that.
Yeah yeah, yeah. So when you this is something I've always like,
I love asking the director who does musical Man, I've never done a musical
scene. I mean, I've done music videos, but that's different. You're
talking like a musical scene. Hey, I'm just gonna bust out into song.
We're gonna start dancing in the middle of Central Park. How the hell
do you approach something like that? And let alone would see g characters on
top of it? Yeah yeah, I mean, like the mentality of the
music video is still there, you know, like there is still but I
think the most important thing that the biggest difference is transitioning into it, you
know, because you I mean, obviously, in the old MGM musicals,
they would just be talking then boom and then they'd start singing. But I
think like nowadays you kind of have to justify, you know, Like the
MGM musicals, it was always they're putting on a show, you know,
So that's where the musicals came from. And then you know, but some
musicals, like like the Umbrellas of was it Schubert, I can never say
that word. They were just singing the whole time, kind of for no
reason. You know, it just was a musical, you know. So
this film was kind of that same thing where Josh's auditioning Broadway as the flavor.
But our justification of the musical was always the sounds of New York,
the things happening around you that sort of create a soundtrack if you really listen.
So the build up to all the numbers was really important on this one.
So that's why that transition into the first musical number, He's like,
it's all chaos, and there's cars honking and people, you know, cars
squealing and people yelling out hot dogs, pretzels and all this stuff. And
then he kind of slows down and closes his eyes and here's heartbeat and you
start hearing like, oh, like the taxi cabs are honking in rhythm,
and the bucket drummers are playing in rhythm. So using the sounds of New
York, that was how we got in and out of these musical numbers.
And that was the thing, you yeah, because you can't you know,
if you just start singing and dance like, that's fine, but it's so
much cooler if you like kind of transition into it and sort of justify what
you're seeing on screen is a story element. Yeah, yeah, exactly so.
And the other the other difference is kind of you know, when you
kind of cut the dialogue too, and and the timing of everything, you
know, I mean it's that that's an interesting thing too, because you have
to like have a metronome going, you know, and like practice the dialogue
because if you're recording dialogue, like you can't have playback going, so you
have to really rehearse all the dialogue that is in between two sections. And
we were doing a lot like the songs that we that we did play back
on set are nothing like the songs we ended up with. And I remember,
like we we shot this one section twice that Josh did, and we
liked him so much we just doubled up the chorus in post production and just
like made it long because he danced really good from these two different angles,
you know. So there was a lot of Frankensteining and posts two and that
like drove you know, Steph think my incredible. She produced all the music
and wrote one of the songs, Happiness is Magic, and I mean our
post production was insane and I definitely drove her crazy, but she was such
a trooper and we changed the song so many times after the fact. But
you know, it's it's a lot of you know, you fall in love
with shots and you just got to use them all, so you change the
songs. I like using the vision, but yeah, I think the transitions
is the biggest difference because in a music video, just starting the song plays,
you know what, I need to share allong the less. So now,
there was another aspect of this film that was really interesting. It's the
Spider Man No Way Home effect, where all of the hosts from all generations
came in through the multiverse. And I'm joking, but all come in.
That was probably a big of a deal to Blues Clues fans as watching Spider
Man No Way Home. For you and I when we saw that were like,
oh my god, that's Toby. Yeah, like how that's Andrew and
they're all together and like look, I get chills. We want to talk
about this because it's such a geek. Yeah, he's just like you know,
you start like tearing up. You're like, oh my god, I
remember when I saw Toby a spider Man. So I imagine the same thing
happened with the Blues Clues. People like I'm sure that the parents were like,
oh my god, there is there's Josh, and there's this. So
how what was when you guys, when you read the script and all that,
How was that whole thing bringing that hole together? As a director,
I mean, I thought it was cool when I first heard the script,
but I didn't I didn't realize the impact because I didn't grow up with Steve.
I was you know, Steve came out and I was a little bit
too old. So it was more like one of those things when after the
fact, you know, like not not after we were shooting, but after
I got on the project and he did the whole viral thing and talked to
the camera, I realized, like, it actually makes sense. He was
such a I mean, Blue Clue was the first time, you know,
the character looked at the camera, We'll be right back after a word from
our sponsor and now back to the show, talked to It gave the kids
time to react and talk back. It was this interact to TV show being
it was pretty revolutionary and he meant a lot to a lot of kids,
you know, and they're all twenty five thirty now, and you know just
what you look online and all the comments when every post something, I mean,
people were like, Yo, you helped me get through this. You
helped me do with anxiety. You know, you just like you shape my
life when I was like when I was an outcast and I just went and
watched Blues Clothes and felt like somebody was listening to me, and it's I
didn't realize how how much of you a responsibility it was to both myself and
even him performing in the movie. You know how many people love that guy
and putting them all together. I mean, I by the time we were
shooting, I was like, yeah, this is important because there's all the
rules of Blues Clothes, you know, like you have to make sure you
talk to the camera at I love, but you don't look down at a
kid. You don't look up at a kid. You know, you're talking
on their level. And Steve was teaching me a lot of that stuff too,
you know before we were shooting, because he directed a bunch of Blue
Spooks as well, and you know, seeing them all together. It's it's
it is that thing, you know, because I mean in the theater when
Spider Man happened and people were throwing popcorn in the it's like screaming. You
couldn't even hear the scene because people were screaming, you know, and everyone
knew it was coming, right, you know, it had to guy my
girlfriend. I wanted Miles my house to be in there somehow too. But
maybe that'll happen next the next time, next time. Come we don't get
greedy, don't get greedy. I know, we got the spider it's a
Spider verse o pay come on. But but you know, like with this
one too, you know it's coming. But we really paid attention to like
building up their intros and when the first time you see them, and even
like the comedy because they're also they're also different. Yeah, they all were
hosts, but they're their sense of humors and the fact that like, you
know, Joe is still wearing a stupid purple pink shirt, you know,
and he runs a present store but the rent is high and he makes a
joke about that, you know, And the fact that Steve is this bumbly
detective that has this great heart, but you know he needs a piece of
a bar of soap to help him, you know, find clues and stuff
like It's it's just so funny and and ridiculous, you know, and it's
so heartwarming. I mean, these guys are incredible. The show is incredible,
and it was great to be a part of that and see it all
happen. And again, it was something where I read the script, I
was like, this is cool. But then once you sit down and work
with them and see them all in sat You're like, this is this is
a big deal. It's like twenty five years in the making. So I
was glad to sort of lend you know, my point of view, you
know, to that whole process. Now, when is it coming out and
where can people see it? It's November eighteenth on Paramount Plus. And you
know, I don't know if there's going to be rocky horror you know,
midnight showings of it, but I think a lot of fingers crossed that happens
because there's a lot of silly stuff in the movie that you could you could
throw a pretzel at the screen, or you could like you know, toss
salt over your shoulder or whatever. I feel like there's a lot of that
fun stuff. But yeah, it's it's November eighteenth, and I think internationally
it's like November nineteenth, and then it's going to come out of some other
some other countries in December. But yeah, paramount plus. I mean,
if the whole thing goes to hell, man with your career, at least
you know in twenty years you'll go to a convention. Is just this will
sign some autographs? Yeah yeah, So I mean, I mean, you're
good, you're sent bro, Yes, I will. I will get those
residual autograph whatever you know, signing a little funko doll that's deep game out
with and exactly now I'm gonna ask you, if I'm gonna ask you a
few questions, I ask all my guests, what advice would you give a
filmmaker trying to break into the business today, I'd say, right, and
conceptualize what you know? You know, just if you if you're obsessed with
Christmas, make a Christmas movie you grew up in. If you grew up
in Chicago, make a movie about Chicago. If you know a certain neighborhood
there right about that, if it's your cultural background and you're and you're really
invested in that. Just write what you know, because when you pitch in
a room and you know more than the executives about something, you know,
they will generally want to hear that story. You know, if you make
a movie about something you know about, you know, it shows you know.
So if you know something from back, like you can be the guy.
You have to be the only person that can make that good. That's
actually really good advice. What lesson would what lesson took you the longest to
learn, Whether in the film industry or in life. Oh my gosh,
we got more hours left on this now. It's it's it's never worth it,
I think. I think on set, it's never worth it to do
anything that isn't safe. You know, there's always those opportunity, there's all
the there's those moments where like obviously an age, like there's so many people
on set that don't want you to do on safe stuff. But you can
sense when you're pushing something a little too much, When a crew member is
pushed a little too much, when an actor is pushed too much, it's
just never worth it, Like find a different solution because you don't want someone
being too tired when the driving home. You don't want an actor to lose
your respect. You don't want someone getting hurt. It's like, it's just
not worth it. Don't take chances with Yeah, and I've had too many
stunt guys come up to me. I'm like, I could, I could
be on fire. I'm like, I don't need you fright. You need
to, you need to, you need to. Have you ever met a
stunt guy who didn't do that? All of them do it everything because it's
like, hey, we're just suspending this guy from wires, but they want
the explosion, you know. So it's always like I need you to jump
ten feet. I could do it sixty feet and I could be on fire
while there's a tiger chasing me. I'm like, dude, I don't need
to know. You need to relax. Every single stunt guy I've ever met
yet, oh, I guess I love. Oh they're the They're the craziest.
They are the craziest carnies in our carnival. I mean they are nuts.
They are and the best, wonderful, wonderful, loving way. They
are absolutely nuts, and they make our films so much better. And last
question three of your favorite films of all time. Okay, Number one is
going to be eight and a half Fellini. I'm obsessed with it. The
whole thing feels like a dream, and it feels like looking at my own
child, even though it's totally different culture. You know. Number two would
be Natural Born Killers. That thing just breaks so many rules and it's like
all the all the formats they shot on how they shot it, and it's
this like awesome like bad Lands love Story but updating in so nineties, and
it's I love that movie. And then man number three has got to be
Clockwork Orange. It's just me. I mean, I mean Kubrick, I
mean, every one of those movies can be in anyone's top ten. He
was a director that made like the best horror movie all time, the best
war from of all time, I mean argue, you know, the best
drama of all time, the best comedy. But Clockwork Orange is just I
mean, it was my It has roots in my punk rock like high school
upbringing. And that's just the movie we watched on repeated a million times.
Can you imagine releasing the first twenty minutes of Clockwork Orange in today's world?
I mean, how wow? Could they even do then, and I'm watching
I just watched it recently again, I'm like, this stuff is still so
far gone, so far out. Yeah, you could not release it.
Can you imagine if a major studio released this day. Yeah it's crazy too
because everything that's like based off book is really obscene and dirty and profane.
You know, books are always the dirtiest thing ever, you know, it
doesn't matter how old it is, Like you can like you read it all,
Henry Miller, but you're like, whoa, you know, But you
know, that's where all the good movies come from, is great books.
You know a lot of them do. And so it's the the obscene will
always be there, and let's hope the studios keep releasing it because they're fun.
Matt Man, it's been a pleasure talking to man. Continued success and
congratulations on all this is that you had, and and thank you for bringing
Blues Clues to the new generation and bringing all of them together. Man,
It's it's a lot of fun man. So I appreciate you, my friend,
Thank you for having me. Nice to meet you, Alex for sure.
Man, I want to thank Matt so much for coming on the show
and dropping his knowledge bombs on the tribe today. Thank you so much,
Matt. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this
episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward
slash three fifty two. Thank you so much for listening, guys, As
always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv.