WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:15.599 Hi, and welcome back to give us mark me. I'm Megan, and 2 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:20.320 you are joining us for a case that's not John when Gacy, Thank the 3 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:26.160 Lord, she's christ. Oh finally, I'm so happy I don't have to 4 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:29.600 hear about him anymore. We were literally that meme that I put up on 5 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:34.240 the Instagram. Oh yeah, like Melissa McCarthy and I was about to call 6 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:39.600 her Shania Twain not my icon. What is her name? Sandra? Like, 7 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:43.600 oh my god, Megan, get it together. Listen. It's hard 8 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:49.479 when you get two icons mixed together. Mean girls absolutely fair. I just 9 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:53.240 want to know, like, is it just does that song like make every 10 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:58.280 woman fairl Like it's just you know, you just the Let's Go Girls just 11 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:03.960 just something to us. We're just like yeah, I feel like it's like 12 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.400 a mixture of nostalgia and then a mixture of like I need this in my 13 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:11.480 life right now, because I feel like every woman has had that experience of 14 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.760 their mother playing this song in the car and your mother going Pharaoh for it. 15 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.799 Probably yes, And then on top of that, then as an adult, 16 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:25.519 you're just like, yes, let's go girls. Between that and man, 17 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:30.000 I feel like a woman, I love it. Yeah, So your 18 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.359 Brad Pitt. That don't impresent me much. That's just iconic though, So 19 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:40.400 your Brad Pitt. Can you imagine Brad Pitt when he heard that, What 20 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:44.200 did I do to you? Girly? It's not what you did to me, 21 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:48.319 it's what you did too. Who is he married with Jenna Aniston? 22 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.200 Oh my god, I'm so sorry Cale put on my dish. Sure it's 23 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.400 like gurgling in the think I thought that was your fridge again. Oh my 24 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.000 god. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it was the fridge that time, 25 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:04.640 because my fridge does it need My fridge needs fixing, you guys, and 26 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.120 um, Megan thought it was a demon In my head, I thought it 27 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.719 was the sex demon from our Haunted Items episode. I mean, it very 28 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:17.120 well could be, but my fridge does just like randomly go. You've probably 29 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:21.800 heard it in the background of episodes like John Wayne Gacy Part three. Definitely, 30 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.520 there's like a couple of parts in it where you were talking, so 31 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.479 I couldn't like edit it. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, guys, 32 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.520 that's my fridge. It's just not doing so hot right now. It adds 33 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:38.280 to the mystique of the podcast. I think you're like, what is that 34 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:42.039 is it the fridge or is it a special sexy sex demon. I mean, 35 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:46.840 I hope it's this best. I hope it's a special se I want 36 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:53.159 to say special and sexy at the same time. And it was like the 37 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:59.319 spexy demon. Hmmm, we wear glasses. So Megan has a my little 38 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:05.039 episode for us today. Very excited about it and we will try not be 39 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.520 as giddy as last time. I Can had an episode for us. If 40 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:13.919 you haven't checked it out, yeah do because it's a fun episode. It 41 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:17.960 was the overtired stage where you're like just giddy. Yes, I love that 42 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.719 stage. And that's when like I get the human version of the zoom meanes 43 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:28.520 o the zoom means the Zoomies are so cute. I knew remember when Waffles 44 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:30.960 used to get him when we'd be recording and you could just hear him like 45 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:36.199 on the landing outside, like going from the door to door. Oh, 46 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:38.560 by the way, just so you all know and update on Waffles, because 47 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:42.599 if you've been around for a while, you know that Waffles is a cat 48 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:46.560 that me and Nile fend during the pandemic and we had to bottle feed him 49 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:51.560 and stuff. And then when we moved to Malta. We couldn't take him 50 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:53.680 with us because he didn't have passport and stuff when we were moving into an 51 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:59.479 apartment that we had never actually seen, and we didn't want to put him 52 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.919 through the stress of like a flight and moving and keeping him inside in an 53 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:08.080 apartment all day long and possibly not being home all the time with him, 54 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:12.280 that kind of thing. There are a lot of different reasons. So he 55 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:16.360 is with niles mom right now, Nile's parents, and he has grown into 56 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:21.879 the biggest, most beautiful boy. But guess what His name is not Waffles 57 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:28.240 anymore. No, she didn't change his They renamed him. Yeah, when 58 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:39.639 I guess Paul so close? Oh no, Hank. They changed Waffles for 59 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.399 her. Well, when you see him, you think like Hank the tank 60 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.079 because he's so big. What are they feeding him? To be honest, 61 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.040 he was always a big eater, like I just don't know if you remember, 62 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:54.319 like he always had like a big ron belly. He did, Yes, 63 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.439 he did. He fit in with me and you. It's fine. 64 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:05.680 He liked his food. This food. We like our food. Oh my, 65 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:14.959 I'm self conscious, no bad thing, which I know, I know. 66 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.839 I always have to have a snake after I finished recording. It's like 67 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.519 a reward or something. Really, I like go straight to bed because I'm 68 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:26.519 like, oh my fuck. No, I'll have like a chocolate or something 69 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:30.680 and then be like deuces, I'm out. Anyway, Shall we dive in 70 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:35.240 to the case? Jump in? Oh she's doing it? Oh she rev 71 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:40.879 Nive just did like that diving motion that she done for the last episode two 72 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:46.000 and she rebbed up like she she went back and like rebbed up and up 73 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.759 red. I'm already. So today's case is on John Jamealski, also known 74 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:56.279 as the Syracuse Dungeon Master. Oh my, okay, is it? Is 75 00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:00.680 it Dungeons and Dragons? No? Oh no, okay, I thought it 76 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:03.560 was going to be something You're like, that's okay. I do want to 77 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:09.560 say that this case was one of the more difficult to cover, and not 78 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:14.480 because there are a lot of like weird things about it. But what we'll 79 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.360 see and what is really irritating is these were a group of women that were 80 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:23.360 let in by a police force that they trusted time and time again. I 81 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:28.079 mean at this stage, what now? Yeah, it's not surprising, but 82 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.439 it doesn't get less frustrating. No, I'll try not be too harsh on 83 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:34.720 them. No, you can be harsh. It's fine. We both know 84 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:40.399 I will be. And so a massive, massive trigger warning for a sexual 85 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:45.600 assault great. John Jamelski was born May ninth, nineteen thirty five, in 86 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.639 Fayetteville, New York. He grew up in the de Witt area, a 87 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:55.160 small town just outside of Syracuse in New York, New York, New York, 88 00:06:55.399 --> 00:07:00.120 New York. Every time I hear like just the two words new York, 89 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.399 I think of Madagascar, the movie. John was an only child, 90 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.480 and he was a bit of a loner, not interested in sports or any 91 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:15.920 extracurriculars. Relatable. We have an extracurricular true craodcast is an extracurricular Well yeah, 92 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:20.600 but yeah, not into sports and loner. Yeah. Also, can 93 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:26.680 I just tell everybody something? Sure? I see fat an earthquake? Oh 94 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:32.959 my god, I forgot that. I was sitting in this very chair. 95 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:39.000 Oh here we go, a dramatic retelling. So here. I was a 96 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.639 gray, gloomy day outside, sitting in this very chair, at this very 97 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:49.240 desk, working in my nine to five job, just doing my usual. 98 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:54.800 You don't think anything's going to happen. When all of a sudden, I 99 00:07:54.959 --> 00:08:03.600 felt a very slight tremor, the tiniest earthquake ever to exist. And I 100 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:07.560 messaged my friend because you know, it's work, you're on slack, and 101 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.120 I said, oh, my god, I think my apartment has just been 102 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:18.879 hit by a crane again, because it hadn't happened. It has happened one 103 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.199 time because they're constructing a new building right beside me, and it was the 104 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:24.040 middle of a storm and they decided they were going to continue and tried to 105 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:28.639 construct with the crane. So just hid into the side of it anyway. 106 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.600 And she said, no, no, we felt that too. That was 107 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.320 just an earthquake. I was like, oh, just just an earthquake. 108 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.240 Just an earthquake. You're telling me I survived a fucking earthquake. It was 109 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:46.840 a Level four earthquake. And what am I going to do? I just 110 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.919 I just sit here and go back to my city, little job, do 111 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:56.159 my city little emails, what what what? I've never survived an earthquake before, 112 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.559 so like state of shock would kick in, you know, being like 113 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.519 on my word, I believe. I went out to my balcony and like 114 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:07.200 stared at the water to see if it was like doing anything crazy. I 115 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.360 called my mom, and my mom was like, oh my god, Megan, 116 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.759 you need to get somewhere high. Well, Malta is a flat country, 117 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:22.440 mother, where am I gonna go? And can I just I love 118 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.879 the fact that you were like, yeah, my building just got hit with 119 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.879 a crane. You're like, um, do you know in American pie you're 120 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.600 one is like this one time at bank camp. If you're like this one 121 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:41.000 time in Malta, well yeah, that's that's it. How people going to 122 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:46.639 say that's the moring Like, now it's not the time, Megan. We're 123 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:54.440 talking about earthquakes and that's show bid. Okay, okay, where were we 124 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.559 to the story? He mostly underperformed in school, and at one stage it 125 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:07.480 had gained the nickname germs Jamanski. That's unfortunate. Well, it was because 126 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:13.679 you were so unsociable and apparently would regularly wear the same clothes every day that 127 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.600 had grown to be old and reportedly a bit smelly. Did they not know 128 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.559 about like, well, did they have washing machines? Then? In nineteen 129 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.639 thirty five yea or nineteen forty odd? I feel like yes, I feel 130 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.840 then I thought, you know, is it a matter of money? Do 131 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.799 they just not have a lot of money? Is this like not a wealthy 132 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:37.000 family, and I don't know their financial situation when John was a child, 133 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:43.080 but as they got older. Definitely John's parents who were not poor. Okay, 134 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.720 well, like they could have just washed his clothes now. And also, 135 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.000 is it just an American thing nicknames? I feel like you don't really 136 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.840 over here in Ireland, we don't really give kids nicknames as a mean thing. 137 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:00.639 Not as a mean thing. We definitely have a lot of nicknames. 138 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.879 Oh, the town has a lot of like people with nicknames, but it's 139 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.320 so much so that you almost don't know their real names. Yeah, but 140 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.919 it's not as like an insult of thing to like bully them. No, 141 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:16.000 we got bullied in other ways. They got creative. They got creative. 142 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:20.840 It's great. I feel like we're getting very slide tracked again. Today. 143 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:26.080 We are sorry. I'll stop continue. That's my fridge. That's the sex 144 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.399 demon. It's the sex demon trying to get out of my freezer. I 145 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:39.600 put her in there to cool off. But I think the thing with wearing 146 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.159 the old clothes and the smelly clothes, I think was more of a John 147 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.600 thing. Really, there was nothing much to be said about his childhood, 148 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:54.080 although he would tell you very different as he grew up and would reminisce on 149 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:58.879 his childhood as you do, or you'd meet new people and you talk about 150 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:03.000 your time in school and stuff. He would often say that he was a 151 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.919 very popular teenager and that he had dated some of New York's most beautiful women, 152 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.679 including a winner of the Miss New York Beauty pageant. Bro, you 153 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.279 were called germ, and you know what, in our positions as professional bullies, 154 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.720 we're allowed to bully him today. Yeah. No, he was culled 155 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.360 Germ. Okay, Like, come on, you're fooling. Not a single 156 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.840 soul. John literally was the guy to be like, oh, I have 157 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:35.559 a girlfriend, she just goes to another school. I did lose my virginity 158 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:43.480 with a girl from Canada, Okay. Her name is Maple, her name 159 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:48.320 is Pam. No, he met this girl from Canada, okay, and 160 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:54.519 her name was Maple syrop. She sounds like a sweet girl. Her favorite 161 00:12:54.519 --> 00:13:01.200 food is pancakes. Although he was a weird teen didn't quote make any waves 162 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:07.679 unquote by one of his school I was going to say friends, but he 163 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.279 didn't have They just went to school. No, he did not know what 164 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.879 those were. He did grow up into an adult to be what people called 165 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.120 gregarious, and he was somebody that you could like hold a conversation with him 166 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.360 about anything, Like you could mention cockroaches are gross, and he'd be like 167 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.279 yeah, and then he'd take a second and he would go into a big, 168 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:31.559 long, interesting conversation about how cockroaches are gross but you know, good 169 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:37.320 for the ecosystem. He was clever, like he knew how to like converse 170 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.000 with everybody about anything. I feel like after his school experience, he took 171 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.000 a lot of time to try and get better at being social, like he 172 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.279 studied it. I think he wanted to try almost be a social butterfly. 173 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:54.200 Once John graduated from high school, he attended Marsfield State College and earned a 174 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.840 degree in watchmaking in nineteen fifty five, which he was just following in his 175 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:07.120 father's footsteps because his dad was a watchmaker and he was also a clock collector. 176 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:11.919 In nineteen to fifty nine, John met and married Dorothy Richmond, a 177 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:16.879 school teacher. They'd go on to have three sons together. They stayed in 178 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.960 the DeWitt area, living in a nice, modest bungalow, and the boys 179 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:26.240 all seemed to be pretty well socialized. They seemed like a relatively normal churchgoing 180 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.879 family, and they were there. They were a religious family as well, 181 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:33.919 So keep this in mind, Sunday Best and all that jazz. At this 182 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:39.080 point, John had been working at a grocery chain named Acme I think Acme 183 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.799 for twenty years until they started to close in the area. He went on 184 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.279 then to take jobs as a handyman, watch repairer, really anything that he 185 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.639 could and physically do. Yeah, he was doing it and that would give 186 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:58.080 him some work. Frugality was a trademark of John's. He collected bottles and 187 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:03.879 cans and he would like literally go out on the roads with a bag looking 188 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.480 for bottles and hands so that he could sell them back to like m Yeah, 189 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:11.360 like some of the show centers. Yeah, some of them like them, 190 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.639 Like it's like twenty center ball or something like that. John would go 191 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:18.759 to the local library and ask the librarians to keep all of the newspapers so 192 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:24.360 that he could cut out the food coupons. Were they a struggling family, 193 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.840 No, and we'll get into that now in a few minutes. I don't 194 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:33.799 think they were wealthy at this point. But this is something that John always 195 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.799 was. He was always so super frugal, thrifty, he calls it. 196 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:45.000 If he went to the library and the librarians had forgotten to keep any of 197 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.639 the newspapers or anything, he would like march them down and be like, 198 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.639 look what you've done, and he would share at them and yell at them 199 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:54.960 and be really aggressive. God, he was horrible to them, to the 200 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.639 point where they were scared, like they made sure they kept the newspapers and 201 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:03.840 stuff for him. Imagine yelling at a library worker. And it is said 202 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:08.519 that he was known to argue over the sake of assent. The frugality wasn't 203 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:14.480 particularly needed, though, John Jamalski was not a poor man. A few 204 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.399 years earlier, John had convinced his dad to invest some money into stocks and 205 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:26.120 bonds. Then when John's dad passed away, John inherited all of it, 206 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.039 the money, stocks, expensive clocks, everything. And it said that the 207 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:36.559 clocks that he inherited were to a value of about for dyk, my lord. 208 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.159 And was he the only child? Yes, okay, the mother was 209 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:42.279 still alive. Yeah, why didn't she get any of it? I assume 210 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.960 that she must have gotten something, Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. So 211 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:52.120 with the money that John had received from his dad, he invested in real 212 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.639 estate in different states, like in Nevada and California. I mean, that's 213 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.639 clever. Absolutely. Even though this would have been going for a while financially, 214 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.640 John made the decision to sell some of the land surrounding his bungalow to 215 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:11.079 a real estate developer. His own house at this point had become something of 216 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:17.240 an isore, and new million dollar homes popped up around him. So he's 217 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.240 in this little bungalow like the houses. You can still go see it on 218 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:25.799 Google Maps. It's a tiny little bungalow and there's like million dollars beautiful homes. 219 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:27.680 Yes, so it's not that it's an isore of a house. It's 220 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:36.039 that these million dollars beautiful houses were built right beside this tiny little bungalow, 221 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.200 and so it looks not like an iore compared to the others. It's not 222 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.200 even that such. John was a hoarder. Oh okay, he probably had 223 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:52.039 like twenty five thousand rocking chairs out in the garden and ship just fifty million 224 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:57.039 gnomes. Well, yes, so he had like multiple vehicles. He had 225 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:03.680 fridges like big appliances and stuff like that out in the front yard and the 226 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.119 backyard like it was just completely covered, and like it's one thing. If 227 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.880 he's like, if it's a junkyard, that's fine. This is your home, 228 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.200 house that your children live in, that your wife lives in, amongst 229 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:19.519 these million dollar homes, and you're gonna be like, I'm just going to 230 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:29.880 place this giant fridge from the twenties right beside the pickup truck that I bought, 231 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:36.839 that's from the thirties, that's beside the fourth garden gnome. So obviously, 232 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.000 as I said, he used his own yard as storage for the bigger 233 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:44.799 items he would hoard, inciding complaints from his neighbors that were largely ignored by 234 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.240 him until he ended up being brought to court. I don't give no fucks. 235 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.319 I don't give enough. So the county brought John to court over the 236 00:18:53.359 --> 00:19:00.039 state of really the outside of his house, and he ended up building a 237 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.759 all fence around the property instead to shield it from their eyes. Feel like 238 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.279 it would have just been easier, John, to just clear your front your 239 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:15.839 front garden. But okay, and actually I don't even fully think so. 240 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:22.039 I saw like one source saying this and another source saying this, So I 241 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.960 think it was actually a neighbor when John didn't do anything about it was like, 242 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.400 you know what, I am going to build my own fence on my 243 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.960 perimeter so I don't have to see into your garden. I think that's what 244 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:40.079 happened. It's the fact that when you buy a house worth like that much, 245 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:47.640 like valued at that much, you do expect a certain standard. Yeah, 246 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.799 and so like, imagine you buy this million dollar home and you move 247 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:56.519 in and you're like, oh my god, our dream home to start our 248 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:03.880 family. And you look out your window and like there's just all this junk 249 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.440 out in his yard. You're like, I did not spend a million dollars 250 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:14.440 on this goddamhouse to look out at that. I was promised views when he 251 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.920 got a view. And his wife is probably a lovely woman, Yes, 252 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:22.799 absolutely, she really really did seem like a very good woman. And obviously 253 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.559 the sun's all turned out really really well. I always find this so bizarre, 254 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:32.599 though, Do you find that when it's someone like John Wayne Gacy, 255 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:36.480 like this giant ass asshole, and then he had such lovely wives, because 256 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:40.279 you know, you have like a bad boy. Told me no, Megan, 257 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:48.200 no, not that bad. Even with this, at this point, 258 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.160 John was on the road to being if he was not one already a millionaire. 259 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.079 Yeah. In nineteen eighty five, John's wife, Dorothy was diagnosed with 260 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.400 cancer, and she eventually became ed ridden to her illness. M that's so 261 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:04.839 sad. I know. This is when John seems to have a bit of 262 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:10.880 a mental breakdown due to Dorothy being so sick. Can I ask if you 263 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.839 know if a loved one got sick, what would be your first thought, 264 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.200 like your significant other? Oh, it was to look after them, not 265 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:23.640 to have an absolute hissy fit that like, and make it about you. 266 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.519 Mmmmmm I agree. Well, John's first thought was how am I going to 267 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:38.759 have sex? That is, it is a selfish, ugly thing to think 268 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.559 about. Well, that's what John was thinking. In the mid nineteen eighties, 269 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:48.119 a young girl named Gina was brought into the house. John claimed that 270 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.440 he had met her at the Salvation Army. M. A friend of John's 271 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.559 noticed that Gina attended family events and such like picnics and stuff, but he 272 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:02.359 wasn't sure if John was in a sexual relationship with her or not. Okay, 273 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.640 he was like, can't priv it, but seems sus to me exactly. 274 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.640 She left the house not long after. She didn't stay for very long. 275 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:15.200 Okay. One of John's sons admitted that his mother, Dorothy, did 276 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:19.880 once confide in him that she believed John was having an affair with Gina. 277 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.920 That's so horrible because she's just trying to get over cancer and survive cancer, 278 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:32.200 and you're right here writing some Gina bitch that you met at the Salvation Army. 279 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.359 If that's even true, hardly. Apparently it was during this time that 280 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.119 John seemed to be going through a bit of a midlife crisis. Quote, 281 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.400 he lost so much weight you could see his rib cage. Said his son. 282 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.759 John started to wear his hair in a ponytail, and he dressed more 283 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.680 like a teenager in designer jeans and shoes. Was he wearing ed Hardy? 284 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.960 No? Eighties not time for ed Hardy yet, No, it wasn't his 285 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:03.000 time to shine bright? By God? Did they shine them? Tops? 286 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:10.400 A design masterpiece? Truly? Yep Chanel Who when I grew up, I 287 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.519 don't want to own a channel bag. I want to own an ed Hardy 288 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.759 top. When I grew up, I say, it's the twenty eight year 289 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:22.400 old woman with a child. So this is when the son helped his father 290 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:27.640 actually build the framework for an underground room attached to the basement, and you 291 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:33.920 were not asking questions about that, I mean, midlife crisis, you know, 292 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.000 I would still be like, what's this room going to be used? 293 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:41.440 I can take a wild guess, a wild wild guest, John, You're 294 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.799 not going that crazier, are you? Twenty four feet long, twelve feet 295 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.519 wide, and eight feet high. It was divided into two smaller rooms. 296 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.759 Oh my god. Ye. To enter the underground room, there was a 297 00:23:55.799 --> 00:24:00.720 door from the basement and you kind of went from what I believe, down 298 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.640 some stairs and then you would have to like crawl through on your hands and 299 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.880 knees, like a bit of it I guess would be the slope for going 300 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:14.559 down, and then you would open like a small square door which was almost 301 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.559 at the top of the room. So if you can imagine like a small 302 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.640 square door, but it's up on the top of your wall, like or 303 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:27.039 in the middle of your wall. Ye have to scream kidnapping at all? 304 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:33.240 No, you would have to turn around then and like climbing down some stairs. 305 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.160 Yeah, that at all doesn't make a matter. He's planning on kidnapping 306 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.400 two women. Nope, nope, No, it's probably just going to use 307 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.279 it to grip some hash because he's having a my life crisis, not at 308 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:48.559 all about time murder people. He's got a ponytail, so it's the ponytail. 309 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.000 So a friend of John's actually helped pour the concrete for this bunker, 310 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:57.960 and he did question John about it if somebody did and I know, and 311 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.480 John said that it it's just going to be like a little weekend hangout spot 312 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:07.119 for some parties. What kind of parties are you throwing down there? Your 313 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:12.039 wife is dying of cancer, you jackass. Yeah, let's reduce the parties 314 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:18.319 to a minimum while your wife is bedridden in the same house. And even 315 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.279 his step granddaughters, so his son's partners kids, yeah, okay, would 316 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.960 come and they would have sleepovers there, like they weren't afraid of it, 317 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.079 like it was like a fun thing. What age can I just like, 318 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.720 roughly, what age would have these grandchildren been, because I am sorry, 319 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:41.319 at any age if my grandfather, well, my grandfather was a raging alcoholic, 320 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:45.799 so I definitely wouldn't have anyway. But if he wasn't and it was 321 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.400 just a normal grandfather and he was like, hey, I built this room 322 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.200 in the basement of the house, do you want to go have a sleepover 323 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:53.359 there. I'd be like, oh, hell's not. I don't know how 324 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.799 old they were. This was something that I read in like one source, 325 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:02.359 and I it was a newspaper source, so I don't know that's all I 326 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:06.160 read. But yeah, no, absolutely, I wouldn't be letting them in 327 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:11.599 there at all. However, this is where the nightmare began. Fantastic. 328 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:15.680 We're just gonna take a very quick ad break here. Hey guys, Megan 329 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:18.880 here, I just wanted to tell you about the season of That So Fucked 330 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.319 Up Presents that I was lucky enough to be a part of with host Ashley 331 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.160 Richards. Every season actually covers a different variety of cases, and this time 332 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.440 we covered the world's most gruesome gals. Head on over to That's So Fucked 333 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:34.480 Up on any of your listening platforms to hear all about Katherine Knight, Carla 334 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:41.279 Hamoka, are more. Here's a sneak peek. Are you ready for the 335 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.160 gnarliest part of the story. Nope, Okay, here we go. She 336 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:52.400 then went on to skin him and did this so precisely that his skin wasn't 337 00:26:52.519 --> 00:27:00.119 one piece. I am fucking nauseous. So welcome back from the break. 338 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.279 Myself and leave also had to take a break because we have been recording for 339 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:12.039 over an hour of which you'll probably see twenty minute twenty minutes. We're so 340 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:19.240 bad we get side tracked. It's because since recording, since we started recording 341 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:23.559 the podcast, we don't FaceTime as much. Yes, and so I think 342 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.839 then it's like giddiness of not having talked to you in a while, even 343 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:32.640 though I was talking to you earlier, but that was not like you know, 344 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.200 so I know, I know hatch up time, and it's like, 345 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.920 no, we're actually supposed to be recording a dead serious podcast. That's the 346 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.200 night Drew Crime just too annoying us. Girls, you haven't spoken in approximately 347 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:51.160 twelve hours, not even because we spoke at like six pm. It's no 348 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.920 ten. We were sitting to record at eight. Yeah, so like we 349 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.400 literally talked to each other two hours prior to recording this. But yet here 350 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:03.119 I am being like, we know faith time that much anymore, and we 351 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:10.440 are professionals. Let's go. In October nineteen eighty eight, John Schmadski got 352 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:18.440 in his tan color in nineteen seventy five Mercury Comments and went, you were 353 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.480 just gonna say out his tann on. Yeah, yeah, I don't know 354 00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.599 why. My brain was just like, he's putting on tan. I mean 355 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.279 he is having a mid life crisis, Yes he is. I can I 356 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:36.119 can imagine him going to a tanning tanning bed, tanning salon. So he 357 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:41.079 got into his tan color nineteen seventy five Mercury comment and went what he called 358 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:47.000 cruising. Why did again? Why did they call it weird ship? Why 359 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.440 are they always calling it cruising? He's like the fourth person to be like 360 00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:56.799 and cruising, no Rolin talking. You're just being a goddamn fucking creep who's 361 00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:03.200 looking to attack some per in an unbeknownst victim. And that's exactly what he 362 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.839 did when he came across a fourteen year old Native American girl who I will 363 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.079 only name as Kirsten to protect her privacy. He found her out walking on 364 00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.680 the street one night when she was out with her friends. John pulled up 365 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.440 beside her, and after only a few minutes, he managed to talk her 366 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.039 into getting into his car. How did they do it? I think the 367 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:27.000 whole stranger danger thing is a more recent thing. Maybe like back in the 368 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.960 day they were more trusting of others. I feel John says that at that 369 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.680 point it was obvious the two were going to have sex. Was it okay 370 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.880 with the fourteen year old who was drunk? She'd been out drinking with her 371 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.880 friends. Okay, John, you're just a predator, okay, right. 372 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.960 He brought her to his mother's home, which was supposedly the house next door 373 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:55.359 to his home. There, John changed Kirsten and threw her into a small 374 00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:59.519 shed that held pumping equipment at the back of the home. Like he changed 375 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.440 her, put a chain around her ankle, like almost right away. Quote 376 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.720 the first day there was a chain and I put it around her ankle and 377 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.119 I found a place to hook it. She didn't like that. You don't 378 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:17.519 say, I can't imagine why. No, can't imagine why. Nope. 379 00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:21.279 The young girl woke up naked and cold in the shed, not remembering how 380 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:25.000 she got there. John told her that she had to have sex with him 381 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:30.920 every day and that his bosses are keeping her there. And this is a 382 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:37.680 common theme that we'll see from John Trip my God. For nearly three years, 383 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:45.480 personal was subject to endless sexual abuse every single day. Three years. 384 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:51.119 This poor girl, fourteen years old, Jesus. John would make her keep 385 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:55.119 a log of everything she did in the day, so he would give them 386 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.880 like a diary or a calendar, and she would have to put the letter 387 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:04.119 t for brushing teeth, s for sex b if they had a bath or 388 00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:08.319 a shower. The rape was an everyday thing. They didn't get to brush 389 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:14.039 their teeth every day. They would be washed with a garden hose maybe once 390 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:18.400 every two weeks. About eleven months after being kept in the shed, John 391 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:25.480 decided to move Kursten elsewhere, a tiny two room bunker four feet underground that 392 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.240 he had dug in his own backyard. As we had spoken about previously. 393 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.279 What you mean that wasn't for a party space? Weird, right, my 394 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:41.359 odd so unexpected. It was very minimally furnished with a crudely made toilet which 395 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:47.079 was literally a bucket, and what looked to be you know those like walking 396 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.599 canes, like a zimmer frame. It looks to be like a zimmer frame 397 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.960 over the book, like that they could like hold themselves over it. A 398 00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:04.440 bathtub which was not connected to anything. He fed a garden hose through like 399 00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:08.359 event I believe or something, and that's what he would use to share them 400 00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:14.720 with. And a piece of foam padding to be used as a mattress. 401 00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.480 And this was a very thin piece of phone padding that he put over like 402 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.559 crates that you would see in burs to hold. Like he couldn't even get 403 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.839 the mattresses. No, no, And this is all control I think for 404 00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:32.200 John. Like he controlled when they brushed their teeth, he would control when 405 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:38.200 they ate, he would control everything. It was like about having the ultimate 406 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:42.759 control. He would bring Kurston one meal a day. She did say that 407 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.640 she could request what she wanted, so if it was like a burger or 408 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:51.039 something, she would get that. But it was once a day. Yes, 409 00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.680 still not enough, like as if like the fact that she can request 410 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.880 it is so good of him. And that's what he wanted her to believe. 411 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.480 He wanted that, He wanted her to believe that he was just as 412 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:08.400 much a victim of circumstance as she was. If you caught earlier when I 413 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:14.559 said bosses, John would say that there were these bosses and he was part 414 00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:20.720 of a bigger group of people that wanted to sell Kirsten and these other women 415 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.960 turn them into slaves. Yeah, it's a royal case of I don't want 416 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:30.240 to do this, I'm being forced to do this by my bosses. Yeah. 417 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.119 Now, to keep a really tight grip on control over Kirsten. He 418 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:38.759 would tell her constantly that he would kill her family if she ever tried anything, 419 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:42.720 and she believed him, which of course you would, Oh, absolutely 420 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:46.519 sure, Why wouldn't she. She's four like she was fourteen. The sexual 421 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:52.200 assaults, among other activities that they would do, were all recorded by John, 422 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:57.680 so he would actually set it up to record. Probably told her it 423 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.160 was so his bosses could watch. That is exactly what he told her. 424 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:07.519 John forced Kurston to write letters and once even sent an audio tape back to 425 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:12.079 her family, and he sent them with pictures he had taken of her to 426 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:16.519 make it seem like she was absolutely fine. When Kirston was seventeen, John 427 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.840 decided randomly to let her out. He brought her to California for a week's 428 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.719 stay in a cabin in Lake Tahoe. Once they got back to Syracuse, 429 00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:31.119 he asked his twenty nine year old son to pretend to be a chauffeur, 430 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:38.280 and him and his son dropped her blindfolded at a Syracuse airport, where she 431 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:44.079 was able to call her mother and finally be reunited with her family. What 432 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:46.840 did he just get fed up of her or something or got too old. 433 00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:50.840 I don't think it's the age, which we'll see in a bit, but 434 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:55.280 I don't know. I don't know, and we'll find out later that John 435 00:34:55.360 --> 00:35:00.519 has this thing where he thinks he's done nothing wrong because he didn't actually kill 436 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.119 anybody. That's not how that works. No, and after speaking with her 437 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:10.320 family, Kirsten decided to not go to the police about her experience. And 438 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.320 the reason for this is because John actually seemed to know a lot about her 439 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:21.199 family, like her whole family's names, where they lived, everything. He 440 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.480 knew everything, and she was like, we don't know how Yeah, she 441 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:27.920 was like, that's so weird. Like, so I don't want to go 442 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.000 to the police, because what if he comes for you guys? He scared 443 00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.559 her and he had threatened to yes, he had threatened to kill them as 444 00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.559 well. He might be thinking as well, why this Sun had been present 445 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:44.360 in the car and had just not said anything and was just like, okay, 446 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.119 fine, I'll drive you in this blindfolded girl to an airport, all 447 00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.639 right. Well, John had told him that the girl had The girl's parents 448 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.000 had requested for John to basically imprison her so that she could lose weight, 449 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:59.000 and now she's lost enough weight, so he was bringing her back. He 450 00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.760 was sending her back home, and the sun bought that. I guess you 451 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:06.960 don't ever think that your dad is that much of a monster. And his 452 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.880 dad was kind of like eccentric. The older he got, the more eccentric 453 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:14.199 he God, I know, and I suppose in a sense as well, 454 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:17.800 you'd rather believe that than believe that he was doing anything bad. So it's 455 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.800 like, I'll just accept this because the other things the easiest. Yeah, 456 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:27.719 if I have to accept anything else, it's so difficult that just know, 457 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.679 I'll just accept this. On the thirty first of March nineteen ninety five, 458 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:36.400 John found and abducted a fourteen year old Latin American girl who will just call 459 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:42.039 Michelle. She had supposedly run away from home. John asked her if she 460 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.559 would deliver a package for him, and that he would pay her very very 461 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.480 well for this. She agreed and got in the car with him, where 462 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:53.480 she was instructed to lie down so as not to ruin this surprise. However, 463 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:59.400 John drove directly into his garage and the young girl was brought out to 464 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.920 the bunker, where she too would suffer sexual abuse at the hands of John 465 00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:07.440 Jamelski. It's reported that Michelle told investigators that she was as mean as she 466 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:12.159 could be to John, kicking, fighting, and even spitting at him, 467 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.840 but this didn't deter him To get her to comply, John showed her pictures 468 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:22.960 of her family and made threats against them. He would regularly take pictures of 469 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:28.679 her as she lay scared in the dungeon. After fifteen months of abuse, 470 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:35.079 she was blindfolded and left outside her mother's place. Again for fear of retaliation. 471 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:40.280 This girl and her family decided not to contact the police, and another 472 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:45.599 reason for them not going to the police was that John would regularly slowly drive 473 00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:49.639 by the house and make sure that he was seen as a way to intimidate 474 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.480 her. I mean good. So her family wouldn't have known what he looked 475 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:59.519 like, but she wouldn't. She'd remember the car. Yeah, she knew 476 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:01.159 what he looked like. She know he looked like, and she knew what 477 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:07.440 car he drove because she got into it. Obviously. Yeah, she didn't 478 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:12.000 know his name. One thing that John never did was tell any of his 479 00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:17.360 victims' real name. He would often use biblical names, and he would also 480 00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.960 something that I had left at but I believe he would make Kirsten read the 481 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.800 Bible to him. Did they ever find out how he was getting like information 482 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.239 of their families? So I was reading like forums and stuff on this because 483 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:39.360 I was curious too, And I believe from the likes of they had the 484 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:45.280 White Pages, which is like the Yellow Pages. Yeah, so I think 485 00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:49.960 addresses and phone numbers were listed at the time. And then if the family 486 00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:53.079 had ever gone on the news to talk about the disappearance of the child, 487 00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:58.679 to be like, if you've seen my daughter, please like tell police, 488 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:02.840 and like we just want our her back. And exactly so he knew the 489 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:08.400 child who to take photos of. John's third victim, a fifty three year 490 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:14.239 old Vietnamese woman. So this time the woman is fifty three, She's not 491 00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:19.320 a teenager. Normally, who's my criminal minds coming through? Normally they sit 492 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:24.280 like stick with the same age, like in and around the same ages and 493 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:30.079 kind of they all look the same and or like look similar. Can I 494 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:36.039 put a very creepy thought into your brain? John was a hoarder, as 495 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.480 some might say a collector, was just collect so if you think about it, 496 00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:45.119 exactly so he has and as we go through it, like they're all 497 00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:52.119 of his victims are of different ethnicities and different ages. Most of them he's 498 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:59.639 collecting women of different cultures and different age so it's like he has a variety. 499 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:06.960 Yeah, which is so sick to say and so creepy. And can 500 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.199 I just say that book The Collector, which was then turned into a movie, 501 00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:15.599 that book, I feel like so many serial killers and just creeps in 502 00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:22.880 general, like really seemed to use that book as something. It almost taught 503 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:29.159 them, not taught, but gave them the idea exactly. Because the whole 504 00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.800 book is centered around like this, and I haven't read it. I don't 505 00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:36.519 know, I've just read things about it because it's also involved in a different 506 00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:38.360 case I've been researching for a while. But this guy, I think he 507 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:44.199 collects butterflies and then he sees like this beautiful woman and he falls in love 508 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:47.559 with her, and he basically kidnaps her and keeps her till the point that 509 00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:51.280 she dies. And I think the book kind of ends on like a, 510 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.679 oh, well, I'm going to have to get another one. So he 511 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.679 was collecting butterflies and then he collected her in the same way. Yeah, 512 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.519 So this woman was abducted on August thirty first, nineteen ninety seven. Like 513 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:06.440 all of his previous victims, this woman was reported missing by loved ones. 514 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:10.639 The sexual abuse continued, and at this stage John was actually relying on viagra 515 00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:15.000 and other medications to assist him physically in abusing the women. So he's getting 516 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:22.519 up an age, struggling more to kind of have sexual relations, if you 517 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.519 want to call them that. Yeah, because he still had the drive to 518 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:30.280 abuse these women, but he couldn't physically keep up. To his regret, 519 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.760 there was a big language barrier, as this woman did not have a very 520 00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:38.199 high level of English. John would later go on to say that this woman 521 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:43.639 would sing to him in Vietnamese. Quote, she had the most beautiful a 522 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:51.119 cappella voice with no accompaniment accompaniment. I can't say this word accompany ement whatsoever. 523 00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:55.519 It was reported that John hit this woman so hard he actually permanently injured 524 00:41:55.559 --> 00:42:00.840 her ear. Oh my god. On the twenty thirty of May ninety eight, 525 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:06.000 John dropped this woman off at a bus station with fifty dollars. This 526 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:09.000 woman actually did go to the police, but she was ignored, like it's 527 00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:14.039 easier to intimidate fourteen year olds. Of course they're going to say no, 528 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:15.199 I'm not going to go to police with this. He's going to kill my 529 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.800 family, and what if he actually does kill my family? In the wise 530 00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:29.239 words of Schmidt from New Girlali, she reportedly mistakenly believed that she had been 531 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:31.679 held in Rochester, which is decently far from de Witt. I think it's 532 00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:36.639 like a thirty or nineteen minute drive. You don't know how long he was 533 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:38.440 driving her around. Well, he dropped her off at a bus station, 534 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:43.320 and if she doesn't have a high level of English, and then also the 535 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.639 bus station, if it is the same now as it was back then. 536 00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:51.599 I remember being on a bus for to get to it, you know, 537 00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.159 a town twenty minutes over when I was in Boston, and it took like 538 00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:59.679 two hours. Yeah, because they go around the whole place and stop at 539 00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:02.280 every stop. Yeah. So like if, like you said, if she 540 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:06.239 hasn't got good English or anything like that, of course she's going to be 541 00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:10.039 like confused, confused as to where she was hell captive. In a magazine 542 00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:15.280 article that I read about this, They're a detective actually said that the difficulties 543 00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:21.480 in communicating her immigrant status and the fact that she was alive meant the police 544 00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:25.679 brushed her off because they told her kidnapped women don't usually come back alive. 545 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.719 That shouldn't be a reason to not listen to her. Oh sorry, you 546 00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:36.280 survived, so you know it mustn't have been that bad. But you're still 547 00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:39.880 an immigrant, so there's still that. Yeah. Sorry, we're just not 548 00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:44.920 going to be able to help you. So you're not from a wealthy family, 549 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:50.000 so I can't do it. Don't particularly care that much. And I'd 550 00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:53.719 like to remind you that during all of this, Dorothy is lying in the 551 00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:59.679 bed in the house, extremely sick, dying. Basically, your wife is 552 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:05.280 dying, but you're concerned with fucking collecting children and women, You sick pervert. 553 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:10.079 She died in nineteen ninety nine, and their son said that this is 554 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:15.920 the only time he'd ever seen his dad cry. That is so sad, 555 00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:21.199 I know, for the kids, for her, like it was an untimely 556 00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:24.719 death. My heart goes out to them. Yeah. I always find it 557 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:29.480 really sad when like it's like, no, I've never seen my dad crying. 558 00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:31.639 I've seen my dad cry all the time, my baby. Yeah. 559 00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:37.880 No, Paul goes on like he's like a fucking barrier, but really he's 560 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:43.320 just like a giant little marshmallow. Yeah, I love your dad so much. 561 00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:45.719 I remember going to visit you after you just had Anna, and like 562 00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:49.920 I walked in the door and he was like, what's your d want? 563 00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.760 Like immediately handed me alcohol, and he like handed me alcohol as well, 564 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.960 and I was like, I have to walk home with my baby. It's 565 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.000 like two pm on like a Wednesday. We're big fans of Paul in this 566 00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:06.760 household. On May eleventh, two thousand and one, Jennifer was abducted. 567 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:12.400 She was twenty six years old and a mother. While she was walking from 568 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:16.880 one friend's house to another one night, John offered her a lift home and 569 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:21.880 she agreed. The next thing she knew, she was chained in John's bunker 570 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:27.360 again. John raped her every single day. Jennifer did also try to fight 571 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.639 John off, but he burned her on the back with a cigar, leaving 572 00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:35.519 a wound that would eventually turn into an abscess. Jesus. At this point, 573 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.760 there was a TV in the bunker and Jennifer would watch the news stories 574 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:44.119 of her family searching for her. Oh God, that's awful. Yeah. 575 00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:46.960 It was at this point that John decided to let Jennifer send a letter home 576 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:51.840 saying that she was in a rehab center, and so the searches were called 577 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:57.639 off. John would tell Jennifer that his bosses were selling her on the internet 578 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:02.039 as a sex slave and that he was trying to save her. After nearly 579 00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:07.000 three months, John let Jennifer go, dropping her at her mother's place. 580 00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:13.119 Jennifer did go to the police, and she told them that this man because 581 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.480 she didn't know his real name, because he doesn't tell his name, drove 582 00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:21.800 in nineteen seventy four Mercury comment. But this led to a dead end, 583 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:25.320 as John drove in nineteen seventy five model. When they checked for a nineteen 584 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:31.519 seventy four version, they found one person that had it and it wasn't them. 585 00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:35.920 And I think she might have gotten the color a little bit confused, 586 00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.760 which you you know obviously, but would they not I know, she's say 587 00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:45.679 in nineteen seventy four, but would you not be like, okay, common 588 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:50.360 sense here, Like she was blindfolded, she didn't see much of it. 589 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:55.119 It was probably dark when she was abducted, So would maybe we should check 590 00:46:55.159 --> 00:47:00.840 for nineteen seventy three comments in nineteen seventy five comments and see that leads us, 591 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:05.480 because maybe she's just maybe she just got a little bit confused because she 592 00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:08.360 has been in a bunker for thirty months. No, they didn't. A 593 00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:13.440 detective did say that they investigated all leads that they could at the time, 594 00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:17.719 but they all led nowhere. Now for the final victim. This was a 595 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.119 sixteen year old black girl who we will call Mica. One night in October 596 00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:27.679 two thousand and two, John managed to talk Mika into getting into his car 597 00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:31.679 on the premise of making money. He brought her back to his disgusting home, 598 00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:36.840 where she was forced into the dungeon. He told her that vicious dogs 599 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.719 would rip her to pieces if she ever tried to escape. The sexual abuse 600 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.880 continued, and John told her that there were other people that wanted to rape 601 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.760 her. Two. I'd like to point out that this is something John told 602 00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.320 every one of his victims, and I think I mentioned this early in the 603 00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:54.719 episode him that he was not the only one. That there were others, 604 00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:00.679 members of the police force, his bosses. He said this was everywhere and 605 00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:04.639 that they were keeping an eye on things. Miko was clever and she somehow 606 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.440 managed to build a sort of a bond with John. She was afforded luxuries 607 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:13.719 the other women didn't have. She would have some access to parts of the 608 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.920 house, and John would take her on outings out for food and to play 609 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:22.400 billiards. Even once brought her out for a karaoke night. So she was 610 00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:28.519 clever because she knew, if I go along with this, I'll survive much 611 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:32.760 longer because keep him sweet. So it's a real case of if I go 612 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:38.800 along with what he wants, there's a higher risk of me surviving because she 613 00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:44.480 doesn't know that he's done this before, that he's let other women go exactly, 614 00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:47.400 So she doesn't know that other women have been let go, So she 615 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:50.960 thinks to herself, like, if I do this, I have a higher 616 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:55.199 chance of surviving it. I do remember, as he would play videos or 617 00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.920 audio recordings of women screaming just to air them. There was graffiti all over 618 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.800 the walls of this place, like, I'm sure that she knew that there 619 00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:09.320 had been other women, but she doesn't know that they've survived exactly. So 620 00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:15.639 John had obviously a certain amount of trust in her, but he still boarded 621 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.159 up the windows of his home from the inside so that she could never escape, 622 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.880 even when he did let her into the other parts of the house, 623 00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:27.039 So he trusted her more than the others, but he still wasn't dumb. 624 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.960 The daily rapes continued, and like the other victims, these were also recorded. 625 00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:36.239 On April eighth, two thousand and three, John took Mika with him 626 00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:38.960 to the Bottle Redemption Center. He visited every week to sell the bottles that 627 00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:42.760 he collected, and I believe he would sell them for like a five cents 628 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.559 each, not that that's relevant, but while John spoke with a friend who 629 00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:51.079 worked there, he asked if Mica could use the phone to call a church 630 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:54.639 that she hadn't interest in, because this is something that they also bonded over. 631 00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:59.920 John was a very religious man and Mika, you know, she did 632 00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:04.360 pray every day and she was religious too, so it's something that she used 633 00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:07.760 as a method to kind of connect with him. So when she said, 634 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.920 I want to call a church and ask them about their times and if I 635 00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:15.079 can maybe go to a mass and stuff, He's like, you know what, 636 00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:20.199 She's been on outings with me before and she hasn't tried anything, so 637 00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:23.960 and I'm right here, what can she do? Went through the suffering of 638 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:29.039 it all, and she was just like, I'm just gonna bide my time 639 00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:35.159 and I'm gonna let him trust me, and I'm gonna let him fall into 640 00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:39.239 that false, false sense of security with me. And when I feel like 641 00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:44.840 I have it, then I'm going to go ahead and try and make my 642 00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:49.280 move. And she was so smart because instead of calling a church, Mika 643 00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:54.119 actually called her sister. She couldn't say much, obviously, but her sister 644 00:50:54.239 --> 00:51:00.480 did ask probing questions like you know who you with? Where are you? 645 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:05.920 You know? Are you there against your will? And Mika whispered down the 646 00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:09.400 phone to her I'm with a rapist. Mika then hung up the phone and 647 00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:14.159 left the store with John to go to a pet store a couple of doors 648 00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:19.960 down. Her sister dialed you know the number too? I think it's sixty 649 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:27.119 seven, but real callback yeah, and informed the employee, who answered that 650 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:31.800 this girl was being held against her will. The employee then contacted her boss, 651 00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:36.480 who was due for a visit from Jameelski in the pet store. So 652 00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:42.719 the boss owned the bottle redemption center and the pet store. And the boss 653 00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:47.559 is actually, you know, the friend who had noticed Gina before. Okay, 654 00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.320 so they were like friendly, you know. Once John and Mika came 655 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:57.119 and went, the man called to the police, and within minutes, sixty 656 00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:01.000 seven year old John Jamelski was arrested and right here, we're going to take 657 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:07.039 a quick ad break and we're back in the room. Even after his arrest, 658 00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:12.760 John Schamatski couldn't understand why everybody was making such a big fuss over him. 659 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:16.119 His lawyers actually had to take a few days to convince him that what 660 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:20.719 he had done was wrong. He thought, like, genuinely, like he 661 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:24.639 said this in a televised interview, that he would get away with like community 662 00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:30.639 service or a fine or something. I'll just get a fine for kidnapping what 663 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:36.039 four women? Five women? When you hear what he has to say. 664 00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:39.920 In the same interview, he's asked about chaining the victims up, and he 665 00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:46.760 said, quote, people wear ankle bracelets all day long, sweetie, but 666 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:52.639 it's not the same thing, you dumb ass bitch. The interviewer literally looks 667 00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:58.000 at him and he's like, it's not jewelry, John, to which John 668 00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:00.880 replies with, it didn't hurt them. Half an hour, an hour after 669 00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:06.840 I took them off, they were fine, Okay. I love how Like 670 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:13.480 the interviewer is like, you didn't put jewelry on them? Like, how 671 00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:17.199 do you respond to that, do you know what? You're interviewing this serial 672 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:27.199 rapist who kidnapped women for like months and years at a time, and he's 673 00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:31.440 like, people wear anklip bracelets, Like it's fine, No, it's not, 674 00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:40.360 John, How are you dumb? Obviously he is. Obviously. Investigators 675 00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:45.239 made their way into the dungeon, which was called damp and moldy and covered 676 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:51.320 in graffiti. To enter the dungeon, which I went through before, you 677 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.639 actually had to go through a small tunnel that was about eight feet long, 678 00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:58.519 and you'd get through it by being on your hands and knees. Then once 679 00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:01.679 you reached the entrance to the dungeon and opened it, you needed to walk 680 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:07.599 down a short ladder through graffiti included hate ready to rook us, So bring 681 00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:13.360 on the pain and what I find most chilling piece to all who enter here. 682 00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:15.639 And he had like he had crosses up on the walls in that place. 683 00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:20.000 Oh yes, such a holy sanct may. A police badge was found 684 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:23.199 in the home and John did use this badge to prove to the victims that 685 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:25.679 he was working for the police. And it was a real one, like 686 00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:30.599 it was one that he had found that had gotten lost, like somebody had 687 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:35.480 lost eight years before because he was a hoarder. Videos were recovered of the 688 00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.159 recorded assaults. In one video, John can be seen dancing with one of 689 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:44.719 his victims as she pleaded with the bosses to let her go, quickly saying 690 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:49.519 quote be quick to them as they review her case, and John echoing it 691 00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:52.760 with his own be quick, knowing for a fact it would only ever be 692 00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:59.159 him who would see this video. These tapes, along with the diary recordings 693 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.400 of the victims, where they had been forced to write down everything that they 694 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:05.360 had done. If you remember, the s for sext for brush, teeth, 695 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:09.480 be for bathed, were pretty damning evidence. He ended up taking a 696 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:14.320 plea deal and agreed to plead guilty, so the victims did not need to 697 00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:19.079 go through a long trial process, thankfully. I know. When John showed 698 00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:22.679 in court to enter his guilty plea, he cried to the court about how 699 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:27.320 sorry he was and about he was sorry about how it affected everyone. No, 700 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:31.719 John, you're not, because you just literally not too long ago, 701 00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:37.960 said in an interview that you didn't actually hurt them. It's funny because that 702 00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:45.519 interview was actually twenty four hours after his court appearance. Of course, so 703 00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:51.039 he's like not helping. Fucking swear to god, I did nothing. The 704 00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:54.239 judge told him, quote, you are a sick coward, You're an evil 705 00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:59.400 man. You're a kidnapper and a rapist, and your reign of terror is 706 00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:04.440 over. Yes whoo, as I go on to say, Actually, However, 707 00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.400 in the same interview as before, John confesses that he didn't say everything 708 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:14.480 he wanted to say in court because as lawyers stopped him. The lawyer has 709 00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:17.880 been like, please, John, don't make it worse. You're already going 710 00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:23.000 to busy for a long time. Let's not make a death row. He 711 00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:28.679 wanted to finish his speech off with quote two number three, God bless you 712 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:34.239 and have mercy on you, and have him help you increase your vocabulary because 713 00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:38.039 if you remember, victim number three was the Vietnamese woman. Two number three. 714 00:56:38.199 --> 00:56:44.679 I didn't bother learn your names, because who cares. I just assaulted 715 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:47.880 you for many, many months. John goes on to say that he did 716 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:52.440 not hit her and that he did not rape her. He said he was 717 00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:54.840 sorry for having sex with a minor and that there were times when the girls 718 00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:58.440 wanted to leave, but most of the time they were fine with it. 719 00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:01.360 As part of his plea deal. All of his belongings were to be sold 720 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:06.960 and divided between the victims. The house was part of this deal, and 721 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.000 really, like I thought this was really nice. It was actually bought by 722 00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:15.039 the last victim's brother. Oh that's kind of like it's a real case of 723 00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:20.000 I'll have it so that like nothing bad happened there anymore. Yeah, exactly, 724 00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:22.679 he said. He said it was to give the victims like a sense 725 00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:29.360 of closure, and I just thought it was so sweet. John was recently 726 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:31.559 up for parole in twenty twenty. At this point, he had been in 727 00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:35.719 prison for eighteen years. Now, I don't ever think that there was any 728 00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:37.559 point that he was actually going to get paroled. I think they just have 729 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.480 to do it. They have to go through the roster, they have to 730 00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:44.679 go through the process. Yeah. Now, straight away, as the interviewer 731 00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:46.920 for this meeting asked about how the women came to be locked in the dungeon, 732 00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:52.039 John replied with quote, I had a bunker, and people knew I 733 00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:54.559 had a bunker. We partied a lot out there, and I was approached 734 00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:57.960 every now and then by someone who said it would be it would be a 735 00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:01.400 good idea for a friend of theirs that a runaway to be there rather than 736 00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:06.840 out on the streets, and that they came and as a tradeoff we had 737 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:09.719 sex. And during those years that nobody was in there, I would encourage 738 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:13.360 them to go back to their families as soon as they could. And the 739 00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:16.199 only time the bunker was used was for a few parties and stuff, and 740 00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:19.840 then someone else would come in, and a third one, and then a 741 00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:22.119 fourth one, and obviously there was a fifth one, but in between them 742 00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:27.119 there was nobody there, you know. So I'm just going to go through 743 00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:30.400 like a very quick rundown of what happened in this Pearl thing because I found 744 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:37.079 the document. So the questioner I'm just gonna Q A and A is John. 745 00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:42.800 Q is the questionnaire. Q. What do you think about your behavior? 746 00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:46.119 Sir? Some of your victims were teenage young girls? A. What 747 00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:51.320 do I feel about something? Something? Something? Teenage girls? So with 748 00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:57.239 something something something. This meeting was being held over the internet, so John 749 00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:01.239 couldn't hear very well, Yeah, yeah, Q about your behavior because some 750 00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:05.800 of them were young teenage girls. What do you think about that? Ay? 751 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:12.440 They are very promiscuous. Q. I'm asking you do you take responsibility 752 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.480 for your behavior? A yes, yes, yeah. Q. Did you 753 00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:22.079 take advantage of these young girls because you were much older than them? Ay, 754 00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:27.639 they were very manipulating. But I should not have taken part in any 755 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:31.559 of this that I did with them. Q. Do you think you caused 756 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:38.719 harm to your victims? Ay? Oh yeah, I probably inadvertently. Probably, 757 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:43.119 yes, yes, I could have talked them into returning to their families 758 00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.880 sooner. But when it did happen, you know, they gathered their stuff 759 00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:49.960 together, we jumped in the car. I drove them to their families. 760 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.079 You know. Sometimes their families would come out and help them carry their stuff 761 00:59:53.079 --> 00:59:57.159 into the house. And then on a lot of occasions, I would return. 762 00:59:58.039 --> 01:00:00.880 If I was in the neighborhood, I'd called up on the phone and 763 01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:02.400 say, Hey, you know, I'm going to be in the neighborhood. 764 01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:07.360 I'll stop by and we'll hang and we'll hang out for a little while. 765 01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:09.800 This is with all five of them, well all four of them. I 766 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:14.480 didn't get a chance with the last one. But if they had anything against 767 01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:16.320 me, they would have called the cops and had a swat team hiding in 768 01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:21.679 the bushes and hey, this guy he graped me, it's coming over, 769 01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:25.679 arrest him and nothing like that ever happened. It's not that big a place. 770 01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:29.360 We were running into each other on the street, in the club, 771 01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:36.360 at the supermarket, which that turns rest on a different planet. Yeah, 772 01:00:35.679 --> 01:00:39.840 he really is. That's why he didn't get rolled. He is one percent. 773 01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:45.000 I'm not sorry, No he's not. And then Q, how did 774 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.239 you get arrested? A pardon me? Q? How did you get arrested? 775 01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:51.199 A? Oh, the one girl and I, as a matter of 776 01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:54.480 fact, I opened up a joint bank account with her and me because we 777 01:00:54.519 --> 01:00:59.400 would go to the casinos and stuff. She would win money and she carried 778 01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:01.119 it in her back pocket, and I said, you have got to have 779 01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:06.039 a bank account. So she knew my social Security number, she knew everything. 780 01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.239 We had a joint checking account, and I said, you know, 781 01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:12.519 I'm going to give you little bits of money here and there and whatever, 782 01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:15.119 but you know, you have to keep it safe. And so anyway, 783 01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:19.800 we had opened that up, and some of her family was very good with 784 01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:22.320 me. I mean we would meet, you know, occasionally in different places, 785 01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:25.639 you know, with her sisters. She had a very large family. 786 01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:30.559 But she had one sister that everybody says, you know, she's a she's 787 01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:35.920 a b I tc H. I'm sorry, but everybody thought that she hated 788 01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:38.519 me from day one. And she was following us around and she knew where 789 01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:42.159 we were, and she called the sheriff and said, I want this man 790 01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:47.039 arrested with my little sister. Okay, yeah, oh yes, he is 791 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:52.280 completely on his own planet. When John was asked about the conditions in the 792 01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:57.159 dungeon, John said, yeah, there was a foam mattress. It was 793 01:01:57.199 --> 01:02:00.320 a very comfortable mattress. I slept on it. They were made to use 794 01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:05.239 a bucket as a toilet. There was a tube with a shower. There 795 01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:08.559 were bubble bats with scented towels or scented candles, and there was a shower 796 01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:13.039 for privacy, all of that stuff, you know. And I went into 797 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.599 its own separate septic tank. But for people relieving people selves, there was 798 01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:21.840 the thing the toilet from our camper that my family used for decades and our 799 01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:25.000 valued guests, you know, used in the camper for decades, and this 800 01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:30.000 is what they have to use, and myself too, because I didn't want 801 01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:34.159 that stuff in the septic system. So I mean that, And then the 802 01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:37.000 interviewer just goes, thank you, sir, like shut up, just shut 803 01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:43.880 up. The interviewer is just like, you're talking absolutely porshit. So yeah. 804 01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:46.320 At one point the interviewer a yeah. He literally cuts John off at 805 01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:50.719 one point and goes, thanks for appearing, John. Actually I believe it 806 01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:53.440 was a woman she said thanks for appearing John. It's the fact that he's 807 01:02:53.480 --> 01:03:00.599 not even sorry. When he went to prison, he had done like a 808 01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:07.320 sex offender like rehabilitation course that they offer in the prison, and he didn't 809 01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:09.599 really get anything out of it. He actually got kicked out of it because 810 01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:15.039 his attendance went to zero and his excuse was, well, everybody else stopped 811 01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:17.559 going, so I stopped going. And when he was approached, like, 812 01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:20.880 you know, do you want to do this again? We're standing up again, 813 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.280 he said no, So he didn't want to read. He didn't. 814 01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:28.199 He still doesn't think he has done anything or anything. Yeah, he's like, 815 01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.639 what do I need repilitation for? Exactly? So, of course his 816 01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:37.159 prole was denied and he will likely die in prison. Good hope he does. 817 01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:40.559 He deserves to those women deserved to have him spend the rest of his 818 01:03:40.639 --> 01:03:45.119 life in prison, like they deserved to feel safe. Yeah, no, 819 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:50.239 and ten percent I feel so sorry for them. At one point, during 820 01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:52.400 the interview, the interview asked like, would you still be doing this if 821 01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:57.519 he hadn't been caught, and he said, no, I don't think I 822 01:03:57.559 --> 01:04:00.559 would because I was taking viagra towards the end. It would have ended because 823 01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:03.880 I don't have the same physical urges that I had before. But no, 824 01:04:04.039 --> 01:04:09.559 you're supposed to say no because I don't want to be a monster anymore, 825 01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:13.920 not because you know, I just don't have sex with them anymore. So 826 01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:16.760 it's not as fun, not as thrilling. Yeah, But like he says 827 01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:20.079 that, he says that it would have ended because he didn't have the same 828 01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:24.159 physical urges that he had before. But then at this in the same breath, 829 01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:26.960 is like, Oh, I took these women in to like rehabilitate them 830 01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:29.920 because like they were going down the wrong path in life and I was trying 831 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.760 to help and they just gave me sex. Then what's with the sexual urges? 832 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:38.559 Yeah, because his whole thing was like when he was speaking to like 833 01:04:38.679 --> 01:04:40.840 detectives and the Jodge and everything, he was like, Oh, I took 834 01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:44.800 these women in, they offered me sex for room and board, Like that's 835 01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.039 what was happening. It's on them basically, Yeah, And He's like, 836 01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:50.719 there were yeah, there were times when they couldn't leave and yet they had 837 01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:55.800 chains, but like you know, it was it was fine. No, 838 01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:00.519 John, No, it wasn't fine. Anyway. That is the end of 839 01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:06.599 our story. Um. I hope he never gets to see daylight again here. 840 01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:12.719 That was a really interesting case actually, and it was fun that nobody 841 01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:17.000 died. Yeah, that was like every time when I was researching, every 842 01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:19.920 time he was like letting somebody go, I was like, you can, 843 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:26.599 like let it side. Yeah. Yeah, And even though these women had 844 01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:31.719 to survive something absolutely horrific and horrible, at least they did survive, and 845 01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:36.800 I believe they got the help that they needed eventually. The police department wasn't 846 01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:43.320 creation at the beginning. M hm, when are they ever? Um a 847 01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:48.400 common thing? But yeah, no, at least like they were all alive 848 01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:53.480 in the end. And for a play to that woman for calling her sister, 849 01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:59.360 Yeah, honestly, like super smart, like really amazing, really really 850 01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:04.039 amazing. We're just gonna cut it off right now because recording for a while. 851 01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:09.239 So really hope you enjoyed this SIG episode. If you did, and 852 01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.199 you haven't already done, so check out our previous episodes. You can get 853 01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:16.880 them wherever you are listening to your podcasts. If you want to follow us 854 01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:21.639 on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at give us More is for all three. 855 01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:26.440 If you want to see who you're listening to, you can follow our 856 01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:30.119 own personal accounts at Magpile, Underscore, and at Life as See. And 857 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:35.480 you can also leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. That's always 858 01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:40.199 super duper helpful, and we love getting messages from you guys. Yeah, 859 01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:45.920 it really cheers up our day, makes us feel like we're not just wasting 860 01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:54.400 our time doing this podcast and that people are actually enjoying it and listen. 861 01:06:55.039 --> 01:07:00.119 Okay, twenty twenty two, don't know why, couldn't possibly tell you why, 862 01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:03.880 but it was a hard year. Yeah, here is to twenty twenty 863 01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:08.360 three, when we will actually like if there's still a few weeks to go. 864 01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:11.480 But I'm just telling you guys, it's comedy our year. Okay, 865 01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:15.760 I'm feel it, M feel it. Hype us up, hYP us up 866 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.639 to all your friends. Oh my god, yes, word of it. 867 01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:25.159 All right, we have a great day, you guys, have a fantastic 868 01:07:25.239 --> 01:07:29.360 day, and we will see y'all next week. I love you, Clauncha. 869 01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:43.039 It's the genesee Qua Siswa is a cistua or sistua. I also, 870 01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:47.840 I was like, they're saying sister, but like sista, no, I 871 01:07:47.840 --> 01:08:06.039 think it's a friend. Oh Cista all right, sister? Oh are you 872 01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:15.719 excited to see your sisters when I go home for quiz mois uh the hub 873 01:08:15.319 --> 01:08:16.680 for quiz Mos