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Welcome to this edition of The Highest
Strangeness Factor, copyrighted on the Paranoble UK

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radio network. I am your host, Steve Ward, along with Andy Mercer.

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Andy and I have been doing these
kinds of shows and exploring the unknown

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with high quality guests for over five
years. Now tonight will be no exception.

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Andy, Welcome back to the show. Yes, it's good to be

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back. We had an extra show
out if you remember results well quickly plugged

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that it was currently a show out
of able on all the various platforms where

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I recorded the weekend with a very
good figure friend of mine who has written

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a book on witchcraft, and his
name is Richard Ward. Again we've established

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no relation, but I dony think
it's quite interesting both have the same surname.

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So I have done the litil show
of my own, just me and

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my friend, the High Strangers Factor. I think possibly for the first time

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ever. I've got a vague notion
I may have done one in the past,

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but I think it was just we've
done some reruns of shows you've done

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before, but this might be a
new one. This is the first time

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I think, on my loo I'm
doing a show without you and we didn't

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mention John Keel once. That's quite
well. I'm sorry I can't. I

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can't approve that show. But yeah, now before we talk about your publishing

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company, I want to bring Susie
in here. Susie Best Deal the pug

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Wedgy Whisper is returning as a guest
co host. Welcome back, Susie.

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It's nice to be here. Thanks
for having me. And we are only

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here because he has access to Streamyard. We were not able to get the

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whole gang together with Scope, so
there you go. Someone has to keep

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the old man in line with the
technology. So that's what I'm here for.

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A very good Well anyway, Eddie, tell us about your publishing company.

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Yes, indeed, my company,
Ninth Circle Press. This is the

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second book we are producing, which
is my friend Richard's book on Essex Witchcraft,

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which will be available and it should
be right now. But I have

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a little bit of an issue with
my printers. Well, actually the printers

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are fine, it's the delivery company. I should have approximately four hundred books

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in front of me and I've got
one, only one, which is rather

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anoying. They were due to be
delivered today but they are hopefully coming tomorrow.

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So as soon as they have arrived, they'll be available through Ninth Circle

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Press dot co dot uk website can
be ordered from there. But I'm very

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pleased with this book. Say,
it's a fascinating not just an overview of

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Essex based witchcraft, but it also
goes into some very important material to do

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with a very famous supposed essets which
called George picking Gill, who we pretty

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much established never existed or at least
wasn't the magician you were supposed to be.

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You know, that's that's probably nothing
to you guys, but to those

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in the occult world, it's quite
important. This guy has been seen has

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been a very major figure in the
world of witchcraft. In actual factor,

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it's very much a myth. It's
been a misattributed work of somebody else.

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So that's really important element of my
friend's book. We want to get that

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out there. So that's the main
thrust of the interview we did at last

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weekend, which is currently available on
the network for people to have listened to.

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We also talk about it for the
bits and pieces. But yeah,

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so it's all going rather well,
apart from me let down by my people

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from the printers, which is very
very annoying. You need well, very

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good, and you're able to do
more shows now because you had, you

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had what some people would call a
real job before. Well, yes,

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it was. It was a little
difficulty to well, i'd say difficult when

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it was always possible because I was
working as a psychotherapist and I see clients

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what I chose to maybe in the
afternoon, so I could do quite late

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nights. But now I am just
the publisher and writer and set my own

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diary completely, and obviously I was
helped sort of held to the times I

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could work with whatever client's available,
But now I could do work whenever I

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like, although I've got to get
up the top rather early tomorrow morning to

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get these bloody books be delivered,
so I might be sort of drifting in

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the nation a little bit tonight because
early I was not ready this morning waiting

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for the delivery and didn't turn it
up, so up again tomorrow morning.

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So maybe a bit sleepy, but
I still do my best to soldier on

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and suiously tell us about what you
what you do and your Facebook pages.

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So I have my YouTube channel,
the Puckuajy Whisper, which we do a

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lot of stuff there that's a lot
about puckwagies obviously, but also some weird

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or dark local history as well as
some dispelling myths about certain creatures, ye,

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and even myths about history as well. And we have the Paranormal Book

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Club on Facebook and on YouTube now, which you guys joined me with.

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Thank you very much for that.
And our first book was The Mothband Prophecies.

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And the second book, although there's
not a scheduled date for the podcast,

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is The Passport to Magonia by Jacques
Belake. Yes, I'm really excited

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about doing that. This is my
first time reading that one, unlike Mothman

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Prophecies, which was a reread for
me. So that should be a good

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one. Okay, well, very
good. Well let's get our guests introduced

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here after the hair raising battle we
had just trying to get everybody on.

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Joe Purdue is a US Air Force
veteran West Virginia master naturalist, field investigator,

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chef, and sculpture not sculptor,
a sculpture. I mean that sculpture

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a sculptor, Get that straight.
He's very mobile. He's also co founder

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of the West Virginia High Strangers Collective, which was awarded the twenty twenty two

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Bigfoot Researchers of the Year Award in
January of twenty twenty three. He also

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co owns Wild and Weird West Virginia, LLC and is a host on Wild

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and Weird Radio. Ron Lanham is
a published three D digital artist, photographer,

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videographer, a painter, a ufologist, and paranormal investigator. He's also

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co founder of the West Virginia High
Strangers Collective and co owns Wild and Weird

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West Virginia and on the same Wild
and Weird radio show with Joe Purdue.

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They have combined their unique skills and
years of experience to bring a data driven

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scientific approach to high strangeness field research
there. All the data goes on the

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table. Approach has led them down
paths that tend to be shined away from

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as they search for answers to various
bizarre phenomena that's taking place in our world,

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from flesh and blood creatures to strange
lights in the sky. They present

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the data for you to make up
your own mind about what's going on out

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there. Their research has been featured
in various publications small Town Monster Productions,

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Animal Planet, Discovery, and have
also worked as consultants for Productions on Travel.

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They are both experiencers of various types
of unexplained phenomena. Joe and Ron,

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welcome finally to the High Strangeness Factor. Thanks for having us. Well,

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yeah, thanks for having us guys. Well, you know where to

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begin? How did I guess?
I guess we'll just talk about how each

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one of you got into this.
I mean, we all have our own

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stories about how we got here.
So tell us what brought you into this

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strange field? And by the way, how long have you guys known each

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other? Well, we've known each
other for a very long time. It

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started off me going into a pet
shop that Ron worked at whenever I was

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in high school, buying fish and
all that stuff. Then later I was

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running a catering operation and stopping by
and hanging out. Eventually turned out into

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dropping off leftover food and hanging out
with everybody and unboxing fish, and then

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they wound up hiring me, and
that was that. I was what two

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thousand and eight, two thousand and
nine, I think Ron, yeah,

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somewhere on in there. Yeah,
yeah. Had you guys been interested in

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the parent ormal were finaled any of
this before you met each other? Oh?

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I had been. Yeah, I'd
had multiple you know experiences, and

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by that point, i'd done multiple
I guess experiments, uh to kind of

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val date for myself some of the
things that were going on. But I

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also walked away from the field a
bit at before this, and I was

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just starting to go back into it, and I think we I think I

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was starting to found a ghost watch
somewhere around in that point, and that's

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that was the group that I co
founded with a friend of mine, and

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that was more of a paranormal kind
of ghost centric kind of research endeavor.

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It didn't really deal with anything else
other than that, and it was pretty

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good. We documented stuff. I
learned a lot from that, and it's

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kind of what we still do with
what we're doing today. So it kind

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of set the presidents for all that. So did you get Joe interested in

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this field? Wow? Did I
Joe? Or were you were already interested?

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Yeah? You know, i'd had
a big foot encounter back in two

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thousand and one, and I'd grown
up with all of the you know,

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typical TV accoutermen that everyone else had, where you know, you were watching

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sightings or you're watching in search of
and X files and all that stuff,

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and my grandmother in one of my
sixth grade or seventh grade science teacher,

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he they've really fostered that interest in
strange phenomena, but I wasn't able to

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really do a whole lot with it. I was a minister for the bulk

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of my adult life just up until
here in the last five years and early

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on. With that, you know, you're not going to you're not going

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to get up and talk about that
stuff with folks just because you don't want

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to get pinned in a place that
you don't want to be in. You

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know, you want to be the
guy that people would ask to come and

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speak, or you want to be
the guy that has the decent sized congregation

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that's coming so that way you can
keep the lights on at the church.

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And the last thing you need to
do that is, oh, yeah,

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the pastor likes UFOs or the pastor
likes Bigfoot. Now, if that was

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to day when when this was going
on back in the you know, around

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but well two thousand and six and
forward, if we would put that benchmark

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to today's standard, it would probably
be a little bit different. But back

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then it was not the same world
we live in today. No, I

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pretty much be the same. So
are you both native West Virginians. Yeah,

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yeah, okay, I'm just an
interloper. But you know, I

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don't have the accent yet, but
I'm working on it. I bounced around

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a little bit, but always came
back. And so what how did you

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guys conceive of putting this this group
together? I mean, how did it

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all evolve? Because, oh,
well, you can you can give the

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reader's digest version. Oh boy,
well, if I recall correctly, you

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can you can, uh, you
can insert wherever Joe. But if I

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recall correctly, we were already involved
in the reptile breeding community. We were

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we were doing some really we we're
we're probably one of the only paranormal research

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groups that actually raised real cryptids.
And we like to we like to say

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that it's true. And Joe can
explain here in the second what that means.

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But we had already hit the road
with a lot of that. We've

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been doing those kind of things.
And we went down to the Mathman Festival

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and I think that was twenty was
it sixteen or yeah, it was twenty

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sixteen. It was sixteen, Yeah, twenty sixteen, I think it was.

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And we were we were down there
just kind of looking and stuff.

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I've been there before. I was
at the very first one, and I

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went for a few years just you
know, sporadically. But this first time

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we went together. So we went
down and we were looking at some of

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the stuff that some you know,
these these artists were doing, and I'm

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like, oh my goodn'ess, we
can we can do this, you know.

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So next year we actually, uh
we submitted and we didn't get in

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uh at first because it was full, right, I mean that's that's how

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it works, right, And it
was like, okay, well that's cool,

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and uh so we went and did
another little thing. What was that

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thing called Joe Creature Weekend? Oh, it was before Creature Weekend. That

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was little est yackfest. Yeah,
we did the act Fest. That was

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our first. I think it was
a kayaking festival. Yeah, and uh

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we're really good though. There's a
lot of people who came up and started

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telling us their stories and stuff,
and at that point I'm like, oh

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boy, this is this is gonna
be this is gonna be different. And

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like you said, we did a
Creature Weekend and right after that it was

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literally I think a month's notice.
We got the phone call, uh that

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there was a spot opened up at
Mothman, and it was a no brainer

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at that point. Yeah, we're
taking it. And we haven't looked back,

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you know, I don't think.
And you guys are regulars there now

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every year, sitting up all there
every week. I think, Yeah,

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we've been down there about every gosh
what every two weeks at least. I'd

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say, yeah, you should tell
a little bit about how you've been been

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helping Jeff Wansley. You know,
I say the sun never sets on the

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Wansley Empire. No, I mean, he's got he's got the moth Band

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Museum, he's got the Point Pleasant
Trading Company in the down the street a

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little bit. He's got Bunker three
or four, which is kind of a

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vinyl shot with all kinds of cool
music stuff. But he's also created uh

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black Light Mothmand miniature golf, which
is by the way, Andy and Susie.

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It is awesome, the graphics,
the design, you'll just blow,

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just blow you away. But also
on something that's about ready to open up

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is the Escape Room, and you
guys have been instrumental in helping to set

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that up. Yeah, we've been
we've been pretty busy with that. We've

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literally we went in and reworked a
lot of the puzzles and uh, you

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know, we had a script to
Golf of and and so we we just

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kind of made things go from paper
to real life and uh, pretty happy

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with it. It's really uh,
it's really cool to see how it all

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came together and some of the props
and whatnot. I guess it's ready to

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go, except the air conditioning hasn't
been. It's the air conditioning is fixed

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now, it is fixed. We
were just there the other day and it

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was a nice a nice and cool
seventy three degrees upstairs. Also, yeah,

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and if you go and check out
the mini golf, we're responsible for

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that six foot ufo that's hanging out. Yeah. Oh yeah. And some

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of the digital graphics that you see
on the in the first room there,

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those are I did some work on
those as well. Well. You won't

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catch me doing the escape room because
they'd find me like three and a half

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months later, all dehydrated, and
you know, I would never be able

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to work out the puzzles. But
oh they're good, man, they're good.

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Let's see. Uh, there's a
lot of directions I can go.

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But Andy, Susie, you want
to step in here at all and ask

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some questions? Yeah, I wanted
to ask, Oh, you want to

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go ahead? Any ladies? First
ladies? First, Ron, you had

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mentioned doing experiments to validate your own
experiences. Can you elaborate on that a

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little bit? Sure, my whole
thing. I got drug into this literally

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probably in the mid seventies or so, we'd seen there was a UFO siding.

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There was a little bit i'll just
do the really fast version. There's

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a little bit of missing Tom that
came out of this later on. You

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know, there were certain patterns that
started to form during during some of my

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research, but I wasn't really looking
at UFOs. I was looking more into

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psychic phenomena, so and I still
continue to do that. I think there's

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a lot of a consciousness aspect to
this, and I was very, very

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interested in the consciousness aspect out of
body experiences, just the scientific method of

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this and how it works on on
on such a level of you know,

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brain waves and whatnot. And at
some point during these I started becoming aware

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that there were other things there.
I got in a little bit later on

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into some remote viewing kind of stuff, and it all kind of tied together.

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But what it all basically acculminated in
was about a four year study.

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And on the fourth year there was
a point where I was going to test

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this, and so I did.
And by testing it, what I did

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as I set up a contact type
experiment, because at one point I come

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to the conclusion that look, there's
there's either a something going on here or

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this is all completely in my head. So I set up an experiment and

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during that, basically I went out
in the yard and I mowed this this

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big basically what amounts to a cross
circle in in our lower field. And

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my my uncle was not not too
happy with that, but not at all.

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He's very proud of his lawn and
uh there's this massive circle with these

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bars and he's he wasn't happy.
But more importantly, while I did this,

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I was using, like I said, that the techniques and whatnot that

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I had had come up with from
the out of body research and the psychic

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research, and like, you know, there's something here and this is you

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know, this is, this is
this and so forth. And what happened

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was on the last day of the
experiment, I got a I got a

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message from one of my neighbors and
they said, you need to come over

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to our field and it it's probably
about five three yards from from where I'm

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mode the circle in our field.
Neighbors had a massive cornfield and over to

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the field and there was this considric
rings of four considric rings that were about

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fifty feet across. Something had had
laid these things down in this field in

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a concentric pattern. I looked at
that, I noted the date that it

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was that this occurred on, and
I was like, okay, that's that's

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enough for me. And at that
point I'm just like I'm good. So

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I walked away. I really did. I walked away from it because that's

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a that's a huge joke to your
belief system and take some time to recover

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from that. Wow. So that's
that's kind of what happened there. There's

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a much longer version of that story, but it could go on forever,

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trust me. But that's that's the
crux of what happened, and that's what

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got me out. And then of
course you know later on it was about

255
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:07,519
ninety nine or two thousand or so
when we saw them offman looking thing.

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Right, So all this pulled me
back into it at that point. And

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then where Joe comes into the scene, that was at the pet shop.

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People would just come up at the
pet shop and they'd start telling me about

259
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these weird things they had ghost sightings, they had seen UFOs and I'm just

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like, Okay, I guess we'll
do this and the rest is pretty much

261
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:36,319
history, right Joe, Yeah,
you know it took off from there and

262
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things really went and they went out
from where we started as a totally different

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00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:47,200
world because it started off mostly as
an art project and it really did and

264
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,640
talking to people and getting to getting
the stories right experiences. Then it folded

265
00:20:52,680 --> 00:21:00,640
into us doing far more than that. Andy before you that's your question.

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00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,759
Ron. You mentioned the Mothman sighting
and you are featured in Small Town Monsters

267
00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:08,519
The Mothman Legacy where you talk about
this experience. Could you, uh,

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could you tell us about, uh, what what happened? What you saw

269
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and do you think it was the
same entity or the same I don't know,

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uh, manifestation of the original Mothman. I don't I don't really like

271
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to call it Mathman Mafman like because
I don't know what that is, right,

272
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,880
So it would be kind of wrong
on me to do that about you

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00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,160
know, like saying, well,
it's it's bigfoot. I don't know what

274
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that is. It's something big.
But there was a creature. There was

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something there, but it wasn't physical. Steve, this is the weird part

276
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about it. But what happened was
we were coming home from uh visiting my

277
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parents one night, me and my
wife, and we were driving around this

278
00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:56,279
area where I lived was near a
graveyard. And as we come around this

279
00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:59,359
one curve. Now what you don't
hear in in small town monsters in the

280
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legacy is that we had smelled roses
slightly before I went around this near the

281
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,440
graveyard, and I thought, ooh, how weird, you know, fam

282
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smell and and uh, I come
around this curve and I slow down because

283
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there's this this form in the road, and I hit my brakes and I'm

284
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:19,799
thinking. The first thought in my
head is my god, that is a

285
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big bird. And and then it
stands up and it's not a bird.

286
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:30,519
It's something roughly that's humanoid formed,
and and then it just kind of puts

287
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,240
its arms out. I guess they
are arms. There are pindages of some

288
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:37,839
sort, and you know, these
things are long, they're reaching the sides

289
00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:41,079
of the road literally, and then
it just in one felt swoop, pushes

290
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,759
these these arms straight down and as
it does that, it lifts straight into

291
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:48,920
the sky, just no flapping,
just shoots straight up. And uh,

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00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,640
it's physical because at this point there
are there are twigs falling out of the

293
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,960
trees there, you know, there
are leaves falling out of the trees where

294
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this thing shoots up through it.
And uh, I just looked at h

295
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:06,000
at my wife, and actually I
think it's my girlfriend Tom, But no,

296
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,680
she think we weren't married. I
don't know either way. No,

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00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,599
we weren't married a few years later, that's right, that's right, but

298
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might as well been. But I
remember hitting the gas on that car.

299
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It was a feara it was.
It was a phiarroh and that thing peeled

300
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,079
out there, and I don't know
how we didn't get killed. I really

301
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,559
don't. Anyone's ever been in that
road knows that it's it's kind of a

302
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:33,400
dead men's curve kind of place.
And anybody that's ever been in a fierro

303
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,480
just they know what a is.
Yeah, it's a race car pretty much.

304
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And that thing took off and I
was down the road, probably a

305
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:45,079
good quarter mile before I let up, really off the gas as much as

306
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:48,920
I could there, and we just
compared notes real quickly. Did you see

307
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,079
Yeah, I saw it? What
did it do? It? Did this?

308
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,799
We checked the tom and and that
was it. We didn't talk about

309
00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:00,799
it again. We didn't talk about
it again at all for twenty something.

310
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:06,279
I think it was twenty years and
I just decided to talk about it one

311
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,160
day and I'm like, you know
what, I won't tell my story.

312
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,039
I don't really care. And I
told the story, and I figured everybody

313
00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:14,640
think it was crazy, but instead
I had more people come up to me

314
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:17,200
like, oh, you've seen this
thing? This this is I'm like,

315
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:18,240
I don't know what I saw.
I mean, I don't I don't know

316
00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,920
what that was, you know,
but yeah, the smell of roses prior

317
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,960
to this, Yeah, yeah,
any Eddie lights at all, any any

318
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,480
orbs or nothing like that, No
Edi edny, any any feeling like I

319
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,559
mean, besides the shock I've seen. This was just unnatural. No,

320
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,200
it's just shock. It was just
complete shock. And what's weird I always

321
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,079
tell people is because you know,
I had seen some weird stuff. I

322
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:48,880
mean, I've seen way weirder stuff
than this, you know, And there

323
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,359
was always that legend that, you
know, my parents used to talk about

324
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,920
they had seen something very similar to
that just a few yards away near the

325
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,519
graveyard when they were younger. They
had ate what they called a gray ghost,

326
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:04,000
and the gray ghost appeared one day
one day when they were walking through

327
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:07,359
there, and shot straight up in
the air, and I'm like, okay,

328
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,240
it's the same thing, you know, how weird. I never considered

329
00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:14,319
anything about Mothman that was That was
the farthest six of my mind. It

330
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,359
was Linda Siegmund who came up to
us at a at a show. I

331
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,599
think it was Cryptocon or No Creature
Weekend? Were was it? Obc?

332
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:29,599
You sure one of them, there's
one of them. But she comes up

333
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,039
and sees one of the paintings and
it's like, well you've seen it,

334
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:36,000
and I'm like, I saw something. You know. I always thought Mothman

335
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:40,200
had these red eyes, so yeah, I learned later that's not really true,

336
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,680
but yeah, but yours sounds more
like one of the sightings we had

337
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,240
up here in Massachusetts and the Bridgewater
Triangle. Again, it went straight up

338
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,200
into the air, just like you
described. No one. Nope, nope.

339
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:59,039
And what was weird about this thing, guys, is how I say

340
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,839
it's a physical I mean I heard
it going through the trees, but I

341
00:26:00,839 --> 00:26:03,440
couldn't see its feet. And when
you look straight at this thing, the

342
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,759
bottom of it was kind of like
undulating, like it was there and it

343
00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:11,400
wasn't there. It was almost like
a gaseous effect. So I don't know

344
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,160
what that thing was. I have
no idea to this day. And Linda

345
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,480
Siegmund has been on the show and
she's a very incredible lady. Had a

346
00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:25,279
mossband like sighting with a strange light
and later on had a am I being

347
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:26,960
a man, I'm black encounter.
But anyway, I know Andrew, you've

348
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,279
had a couple of questions waiting in
the wings there. Yes, one's a

349
00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,400
little different. Really, I was
quite intrigued by Joe said that you were

350
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,680
a former minister. Now intrigued.
I mean, if it's uncomfortable talk about

351
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,799
it's fair enough. But how you
square an interest in the panel with being

352
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:45,440
a vicar? Basically, I just
over here, it would be seems quite

353
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,839
unusual to combine those two interests.
I just wonder how that comes about.

354
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:56,680
How you work at well, anybody
who actually is honest with themselves and understands

355
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:03,200
the function of faith knows that by
proxy what we believe in as a paranormal

356
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:12,319
entity, supernatural being, and that
goes for all faith based religions. You're

357
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:23,440
placing your faith and your potential eternity
into an unseen force. And in many

358
00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:30,359
cases people are experiencing these unseen forces, and we call those hauntings, or

359
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:37,319
we call those events of high strangeness. Uh, you know, it is

360
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,799
no more separated. If you really
look at the nuts and bolts of everything,

361
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:52,960
then you know, water and fish
being realistic fair enough, and so

362
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:57,480
for me, it was just it
was easy to you know, make those

363
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:07,640
ends meet. But understood at the
time that wasn't where the church was.

364
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,200
You know, you had a lot
of people who they didn't even understand the

365
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:18,720
mystic sides of what they believed in
and trying to wrap their mind around the

366
00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:29,119
mysticism that is faith. It would
almost because I'd had these conversations with people

367
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,680
many times over the years, because
you know, I would find people who

368
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,160
had similar interests and I would talk
to them in private, right, So

369
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,920
it wasn't like I was just completely
backward with everything there. I would talk

370
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,359
with some of these folks, but
it wasn't something that I'd stand up from

371
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:49,960
the poolpit and you know, declare, oh, I'd had a big foot

372
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,319
sighting and if you've had this kind
of thing, you're not crazy kind of

373
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:57,720
stuff. I wouldn't have done anything
like that, but I did have those

374
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,319
conversations with people behind closed doors or
you know, going out to eat and

375
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:08,799
just spending time. And you know, if anything it, this type of

376
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:17,799
strange phenomena does nothing but affirm that
there is some sort of unseen force.

377
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:22,759
What that is, you know,
we can't really define or or put a

378
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:30,480
label to, but that there is
an unseen force at play, regardless of

379
00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:34,599
what we want to call it.
HM. You know, recently, Susie

380
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:41,640
and I talked to Reverend Michael Carter, who is seeing Off. A great

381
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,559
guy. I've spoken to him a
couple of times on this show. Uh

382
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,240
and and he's a he's an experiencer
and and a and a minister and he's

383
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:52,000
uh they would call him the UFO
Minister. And he's had to deal with

384
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:57,640
process a lot of uh bizarre experiences, but he has uh he seems to

385
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,440
have done it masterfully. Know that
they to kind of pull everything together and

386
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,960
be at piece with themselves. So
you know, you've pointed out that,

387
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:10,920
you know, maybe twenty years ago
he couldn't have gotten away with that.

388
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,960
You know it is easily, but
now sometimes these things are a little more

389
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:22,799
acceptable. Question. That was where
I was going with my question kind of

390
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,839
in my mind. Okay, I
jumped a line in the script. That's

391
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:34,200
my problem. So what was the
question going to be? Andyespecially do you

392
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,680
know about Michael cart Andy's Unfortunately I
missed that show. They didn't tell me

393
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:40,839
we're doing it, so I missed
it. But I was a bit of

394
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:44,039
asked some kind of question how you
square those two together? And it's interesting

395
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:48,880
that it's a more of a broader
acceptance of the supernatural, paranel whatever,

396
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,720
So you prefer that it's definitely a
more of a thing now that the idea

397
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,839
that you could have your faith and
belief and still have an interest in what

398
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,920
would probably be not so seen it
outside of the faith. I mean,

399
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:03,039
go back in time on further these
things. Demons, you shouldn't be they're

400
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:12,160
still doing that. Don't don't get
in We hear that every week. Demons,

401
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,799
this is a demon, This is
a nephilim, But like, shall

402
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,759
shall I define that? When they
used to do that stuff? You know,

403
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:22,240
if you're going to go by that
belief system, what's it mean,

404
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,759
Joe? What what were you getting
it? If you're going to go by

405
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:30,519
that belief system, if this is
all demonic, what are you gonna get?

406
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:33,240
What are you gonna go with?
If? Oh, that belief system,

407
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,559
if you have to go with that
belief system, then you have to

408
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:40,680
go with the belief sysm that you
believe in. These other entities who are

409
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:47,559
on the other side of that coin, and what are they bingo? Yeah,

410
00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:52,759
so you know you had the satanic
panic, did no one any favors?

411
00:31:52,920 --> 00:32:00,880
And then it spread into everything at
that point, whether it was religion

412
00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:07,440
or uh you know pop culture for
that matter, but it it really did

413
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:12,119
do a number and people still label
these things is demonic. If you if

414
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:17,559
you pay attention to the news and
you watch the modern uh this this lowercase

415
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,480
D disclosure that we're getting with the
phenomena. You know, you have these

416
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:27,720
guys who are like, it's evil, it's it's pure evil, it's demonic,

417
00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,920
it's this, it's that, and
like what do you have? What

418
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:36,359
evidence are you quantifying your opinion on
Yes, I deal with that on a

419
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,000
regular basis too, And I always
tell people like, forget everything you know

420
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:45,880
and just look at the encounter or
experience and go off of that. And

421
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,839
and and Susie, please tell us
what some people have told you. Puck

422
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:57,599
Wedgies were well, obviously demons,
but the the great one is Neli Dwarf.

423
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:02,880
Oh No, that thing is the
people that call things nephilim. They've

424
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,839
well they're all American for starters,
and they have no understanding of the Hebrew

425
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:14,680
language. That was something that I
studied immensely, was the sociology, the

426
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:20,640
culture and the history and the the
lexicon that was used, you know,

427
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:27,720
the entomology of the ancient text like
at the time, not what we look

428
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:31,640
at it today, but looking back
at the historical sociological meanings were and what

429
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,920
was being used. And when I
hear people start calling things nephilim, I'm

430
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,319
just like, instantly, I'm like, you have no idea what you're talking

431
00:33:40,319 --> 00:33:45,440
about, But I'll listen and I'll
nod and smile. I think it turns

432
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,039
to be more for I've been saying
these chats, but an American phenomena.

433
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:53,839
It is it is. It is, yeah, a bit more sort of

434
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:59,240
secular over here, you might guess
maximum in the UK, but it has

435
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:04,000
been sort of unfortunately penetrate a little
in the TV media at the things are

436
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,559
being called demons and that they're not
demons are not interesting, which is a

437
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:10,039
real shame because it is a much
broader phenomena obviously. I mean you can

438
00:34:10,119 --> 00:34:14,880
label they think demnachhum and who is
very strict in the definition of course,

439
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,920
But hopefully there are more out there
who win to sort of move away from

440
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,639
that kind of very strict parameters of
what these phenomena are. I mean,

441
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,320
I've always been of the opinion,
I'd say the same thing many times that

442
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,599
these things themselves have no particular form. They've just come across in adherence with

443
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,960
their own belief systems, whatever that
might be. That's why I've seen over

444
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:37,039
the years of investigating people who have
experienced the same phenomena but interpreted differently based

445
00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,719
on what they think they're experiencing.
So there's like a pure phenomena in itself,

446
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,800
and then there's an approach to that
fulomena based on what you're looking for,

447
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,480
what you believe in. So I
find it interesting that you can move

448
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:52,800
beyond that those parameters, as you
say, you want to be. Too

449
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,199
many of you Joe around that are
willing to do that, But it's good

450
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,840
to hear that people are willing to
do that. Well, you got to

451
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,719
do have a little bit of gray
matter between your ears, and you should

452
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,679
be able to do that. But
anybody who can't think for themselves is objecting

453
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:17,480
themselves to what everyone else thinks.
That they think all kinds of dumb stuff,

454
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:25,519
and then to all of the ignorance. And you don't know any better

455
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:31,280
because you're not looking further than the
tip of your nose or modern day term,

456
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,960
you're not looking any further than the
pale blue glow in front of your

457
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,239
face. I mean, it's true, It's absolutely true. I mean,

458
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,840
and you know, the fact of
the matter is, you know, when

459
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,039
you go into the whole evil side, the demon side, the big scare

460
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:52,960
words, it sells, it's it's
clickworthy, sells, politics, it was

461
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,280
everything. Yeah, it sells,
and that's why you see most of it.

462
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,599
But if people who are actually out
there in the field and they're doing

463
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:04,559
real research and they're actually just gathering
the data and putting the you know,

464
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:07,360
the belief systems aside. It's okay, you can put that belief system aside

465
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,800
for a little bit. That's not
going to hurt you. And if you

466
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,000
do put it aside from a little
bit, you might actually be able to

467
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,679
define it a little bit better later
on too. You just don't know what

468
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:22,119
you're going to find, but you
know there are there are clear pieces of

469
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:28,440
evidence there that says that it is
a consciousness experience. Like Andy was saying,

470
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:35,079
there the interpretation perception. You know, these are the same events.

471
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:38,000
It's people are seeing these things in
completely different ways. That's what we're finding.

472
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:42,119
Yeah, so that's what I think
you find. I should so my

473
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:44,920
own background. I actually I am
a qualified school teach and I taught our

474
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,960
evilitious education, so I have a
little of a broader understone how various faiths

475
00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:52,119
do interact with phenomena such as this, and it is broady. The concept

476
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:57,519
of anything that is seen as quite
supernatural is then for going to be something

477
00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:00,880
that's of a negative form, say
apart from party. More in Hinduism,

478
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,480
there's a more of a broader idea
of the concepts of these spirits being around

479
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:07,840
us, which of course is conflicted
the idea of reincarnation. So that's a

480
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:14,320
little circle needs to be squared there. But it is generally interesting how sometimes

481
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,920
the phenomena that ease can understand by
faith is then demonized literally obviously and metaphorically

482
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,559
as well. And it's good to
recognize that there is more going on around

483
00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:24,440
us. It doesn't mean so you
have to abandon every faith or any belief

484
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,719
systems because it doesn't quite fit with
what your experience. So you can take

485
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,800
on board those experiences and add that
into your understanding of the world that that't

486
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,760
necessarily happen to give up on everything, which is a very positive thing,

487
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:42,280
I think. I agree. I
do have quite a few questions here,

488
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:49,400
so any and Susy just elbow your
way in here every time. Okayish,

489
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,239
I'm too polite. You can jump
ahead on the script and you can step

490
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,840
on my lines if you want,
but we're in my stream yard, so

491
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,599
I can just mute you or put
you backstage if we need to. Man,

492
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,079
Wait, you know I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna talk about redheads now.

493
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:08,159
I'm not going to make any red
head jokes, butful that's what I'm

494
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,800
very careful around redheads. Okay,
you know you guys mentioned I know you

495
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,400
guys do work in the field because
I was at one of your workshops.

496
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:21,679
So tell tell people about uh the
workshop. You know, how many how

497
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,719
how long have you been doing these
workshops? And what are some of the

498
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:32,800
kind of general subjects or goals you
were presented at the workshops? Well,

499
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:40,559
the workshop ideas started being tossed around
in twenty nineteen. Uh, and it

500
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:45,239
was because of a friend of ours
named Wayne Barnes. He was the third

501
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:54,280
co host of Wild and Weird Radio
in his sense stopped existing. And I'm

502
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,880
gonna say he stopped existing. Now
he's still broadcasts. Yeah, he's still

503
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:07,599
the show occasionally, but he passed
away and uh yeah, okay, so

504
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:14,199
he interferes with your show. But
he was through the ups, uh snail

505
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:20,760
mail, Uh apparitions, what are
we talking about. We've had e vps

506
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,960
on the show and all kinds of
stuff. It's it's been pretty weird,

507
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:29,559
and we just blame those on Wayne
by default. It's great to have a

508
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:32,760
scapegoat, it always is, exactly
so Wayne. Wayne had been in the

509
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:43,760
Bigfoot world for forever and he uh
had been to one of the old big

510
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:51,840
Foot roundups out on the west coast, and it those those events weren't like

511
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:58,000
the big cryptid conventions and stuff that
we have here nowadays. These were just

512
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:02,119
a word of mouth, bunch of
Bigfoot enthusiasts coming out and you had people

513
00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:06,239
who, you know, Meldrum used
to go to these things. The big

514
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,239
names, uh there were. Originally
these were attended by the four Horsemen and

515
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:16,199
who was you know, Renee de
Hendon, John Green, the all those

516
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:24,039
guys there, They Grover Krantz and
who was the fourth guy he just passed

517
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:31,360
away, Peterburn And uh, they
were all attended by those guys and they'd

518
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:37,880
set and they'd argue and they'd fight. But then then they would you know,

519
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,199
have these discussions and they would teach
people how to do the thing right.

520
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,719
They would teach people how to cast
tracks. They teach me how to

521
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,920
read the ground and look and track. And you know, Wayne had been

522
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,599
to one of those many many moons
ago, and there was nothing like that

523
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:57,079
here on the East coast, and
barring some of these big expeditions that were

524
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:01,360
put on by by different entities that
were four or five hundred dollars to attend,

525
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,800
and the Bigfoot round ups were all
affordable. You basically the pay to

526
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,760
get in, covered your food and
some gas money for the guests that they

527
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,119
would have come. But we were
trying to figure out what to do,

528
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:19,119
and we'd come up with this idea
for Wild and Weird Con and we were

529
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:23,039
going to have workshops there and then
the pandemic happened, so everything got shut

530
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:30,239
down, everything got postponed by a
year, and then in twenty twenty one

531
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:37,920
we hosted the first big Foot workshop, so we then had workshops at Wild

532
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,800
and Weird Con that year as well, and then ever since then we've every

533
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,599
year we've hosted a workshop or two
and because we count counting the ones at

534
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:51,280
Wild and Weird Con, we would
have normally four or five workshops on that

535
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:59,119
weekend for different different things, whether
it was paranormal, bigfoot, how to

536
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,360
you know, identify things in the
sky, things of that nature, and

537
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,440
you know, for the most part, we show people the reality of what

538
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:12,360
doing field work is. And you
got to come to the most recent one,

539
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,000
Steve, where we were in Point
Pleasant and we hosted it was more

540
00:42:15,039 --> 00:42:22,519
of a paranormal workshop and and that's
more Ron's Baileywick and so it was more

541
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:29,960
geared into the high strangeness side of
the things that we do. And uh,

542
00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:32,440
people really had a good time.
I know, you limited to so

543
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:37,880
many people because you want it to
get me manageable. And we've we've got

544
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:44,920
a twenty five person cap for attendees
with but that doesn't that excludes the workers

545
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,440
that we have coming to kind of
help us. Okay, Well it's you

546
00:42:47,519 --> 00:42:52,199
know, it's sold out in no
time and people just had a blast.

547
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,280
I mean we uh uh we had
a SkyWatch, you know with some of

548
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,119
us had night vision goggles. Somebody
I said they saw I didn't see it,

549
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,079
but you know, you could easily
see satellites through binoculars and night vision

550
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,199
goggles. But somebody said something was
chucking along and then all of a sudden

551
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,639
it stopped for a while. Yes, that I was. I was there.

552
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:15,880
It was me and Larry were watching
that one, and so was Ron

553
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,719
I think was at one of the
bunkers at this point. Yeah, it

554
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,840
was me, Larry, you were
behind me about twenty feet or so,

555
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:30,079
Steve, and then who I think
it was Scott. Scott was there.

556
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:36,480
But we watched this thing with the
naked eye. Ah, and Larry had

557
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,679
a night vision on it as well. Watching it, so it just kind

558
00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:42,599
of enhanced it, but it was
visible to the naked eye, and it

559
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,159
was moving across the sky. We
thought, for sure, this is a

560
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:51,440
satellite. And then it stops dead
in its tracks and repositions and moves at

561
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,760
a ninety degree angle away from the
direction it had been moving. And so

562
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,760
that was that was pretty significant that
night. But there was several satellites.

563
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,239
We watched a ton of satellites go
over. We did capture a couple images

564
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,440
that were only visible on thermal and
infrared, but that one, the one

565
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,079
that stopped. We were actually able
to see that with the naked eye.

566
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,320
Wow. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And we had a couple of experiences.

567
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:23,679
We had people who encountered weird sounds
in one of the TND domes and

568
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:30,360
we actually heard a lot of us
heard a female voice calling out from the

569
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,320
dome that we were set up in
front of. We actually thought somebody was

570
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:38,360
in there, but nobody was in
there. And the people that don't know

571
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:44,519
the T and T area, which
was a place with a created explosives for

572
00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:49,400
a World War two back in the
forties, it's a super creepy area in

573
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,119
the daytime, and of course we
were there at night when it's extra creepy.

574
00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:00,519
Yeah, it gives this whole you
know, kind of mood setting dynamic.

575
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:04,920
And that was more or less.
We just wanted people to go and

576
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,760
have fun, whether we had any
kind of encounters or not. And that's

577
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,719
we do preface that with folks.
We tell people, do not come to

578
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,679
these things and expect to have an
encounter. We're coming here, we're going

579
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:16,800
to teach you how to do the
thing, and then we're actually going to

580
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:22,039
do the thing, and if anything
happens, sweet, but if not,

581
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,960
we all still had a good time. And also earlier, earlier in the

582
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:30,360
day, everybody was down by the
flood wall and you guys were giving talks

583
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:36,800
and demonstrating some of the equipment and
then we uh we went and toured the

584
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,880
Mothmand Museum, so everybody got to
get a good taste of Point Pleasant.

585
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:46,159
So it was a great long day
of you know, really experiencing Point Pleasant

586
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:51,599
and Mothman Country. Well, we'll
be doing it again, I'm sure there

587
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:54,280
was. There's multiple people who are
calling for that to come back again next

588
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,239
year. So we're going to definitely
try to do that, and I know

589
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,079
the next work will be a Bigfoot
related workshop again as well. Yeah,

590
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:07,199
we're we're shooting for October right now, and it's going to be another big

591
00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:08,599
Foot workshop, and it's going to
be in one of the areas that we

592
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:14,320
conduct research in on a regular basis, just like always normally, like when

593
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,800
we do a workshop, we try
to have it somewhere that's actually one of

594
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:23,400
our research areas. So it's that
way. It puts us in the corner

595
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,920
that we know the terrain, we
know the environment, we know the situation

596
00:46:29,039 --> 00:46:32,440
we're in, and we're not out
there just kind of blind. We're very

597
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,280
familiar with it. But it also
puts us in a position where you know,

598
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,440
we've had stuff happen here in the
past, and it puts people in

599
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:47,519
the position where they could possibly have
an experience that validation there, Bud,

600
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,199
right, go ahead. Do you
think that kind of phenomenon is happening just

601
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:59,719
randomly or possibly you know a bunch
of people being there and thinking about it

602
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:05,800
and the consciousness kind of increases your
chances. Maybe I'll say, what can

603
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,320
we say about that, Joe at
this point, Well, Glenn, Glenn

604
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:16,800
Adkins, he's a good friend of
ours. He studied under Oh gosh,

605
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:24,039
what's Robert Morgan. Robert Morgan.
Robert Morgan, and Robert Morgan was a

606
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:32,320
tribal member and he worked with different
different groups and different research teams doing a

607
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:43,360
litany of different types of study.
But he was very interested on intent and

608
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,000
what kind of results intent would have, like your thought process, how you

609
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:52,199
go into something, how you present
yourself going into an environment, and what

610
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:58,480
those results would yield. And these
workshops do put you in a frame of

611
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:05,199
mind that you're there to learn the
thing, to look for the thing,

612
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:13,199
and could that potentially call the thing
in It's there's been a lot of studies.

613
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,119
The US government's ran studies on it, and there's been a ton of

614
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:22,239
money put into different different places and
different times looking into that phenomena. And

615
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:27,760
I'd say it's at least a fifty
to fifty Yeah, I'd say it's more

616
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,039
than that. But that's you know, just based on what I've seen at

617
00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:35,880
this point. Do you think that
that certain people attracted though? There are

618
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,159
stories about people that get heavily involved
in UFO research or whatever, and it

619
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,719
just it just all around them all
of a sudden. I don't know,

620
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:52,079
if you're familiar with a Dictionary of
Angels by Gustav Davidson. He it has

621
00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:57,800
this I know, I know Andy
is, but it's this vast dictionary of

622
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:02,760
both good and evil. And when
he was in his forward in the introduction,

623
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,000
he talks about how he was immersed
in this and he's crossing a field

624
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:10,599
one night and these apparitions and he
didn't know what they were, whether they

625
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:15,800
were angels or some kind of being
or whatever. They just started swarming him.

626
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,960
And the next morning when he woke
up, he didn't really know how

627
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,159
to explain the experience, but it
was during the time he was completely immersed.

628
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:27,679
Now I have been very immersed in
this stuff for years, and almost

629
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,480
nothing happens to me, so that
it's still maybe something that certain people tune

630
00:49:32,519 --> 00:49:38,840
into or attract somehow and others don't. Steve, I've reversed my bad luck.

631
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:45,599
So I think we just proved wrong. Or Joe's fifty fifty. See

632
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:50,800
see Steve is the good reason.
He's a good example for why I think

633
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,320
that it's more of a fifty to
fifty thing, because you have people who

634
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,679
seem to be like a magnet for
the phenomena, and then you have people

635
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,440
who seem to be the opposite side
out of that magnet for the phenomena and

636
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:07,360
Susie, it sounds like you were
one of the opposite sides of the magnet.

637
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:13,760
Steve is the opposite side of the
magnet. I very recently reversed my

638
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:19,639
polarities. Yes, so what was
that, Steve? No? No,

639
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:22,440
I I just said I'm on the
opposite side of a lot of stuff.

640
00:50:22,679 --> 00:50:29,559
But go ahead, I AGERI it. But but yeah, it does seem

641
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:37,480
that there is some some relation based
off what we have seen. I do

642
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:42,920
fall on the more reluctant side to
say that it is higher than fifty percent,

643
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:46,719
but I can say at least that
there's a fifty to fifty chance that

644
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,280
if you go out there with with
a form of intent, or you go

645
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,320
out there with if you immerse yourself
in it, like the guy who wrote

646
00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:00,719
that that book, the Dictionary of
Angels, if you have urse yourself in

647
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,519
it, you you have no choice
at that point that will reverse any kind

648
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:12,159
of hilarity that you had. Full
immersion is going to yield results. But

649
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,159
if you go out and you set
your intent, you go out and you

650
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:24,239
basically make yourself a target, so
to speak, then you have a better

651
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:30,599
chance I think at having these kind
of experiences. Of course, when Ron

652
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,440
saw this, this, this bird
creature or whatever it was, I'm pretty

653
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,039
sure he wasn't focused on anything like
that. So no, you know a

654
00:51:37,039 --> 00:51:42,119
lot of times people, even people
that are are hard no skeptics, will

655
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:45,599
all of a sudden be confronted with
something truly bizarre. Well, I think

656
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:51,199
that there's more to that story though, now, Steve, it's honestly,

657
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,079
this is you know, just where
I see personally myself at this point,

658
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:58,480
because a lot of people are always
wanted me to speculate on things, and

659
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:00,880
I'll speculate. It doesn't mean it's
real, but it's just based upon what

660
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,920
I've observed. I think that there
is a controlling factor here. I think

661
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,320
that whatever this is, this phenomena
is, it has a not really an

662
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:15,239
agenda, but it definitely has a
plan of some sort. And I do

663
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:21,239
think that that's what we are seeing. I mean, John B. Alexander,

664
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:28,119
he called it precognitive sentient. What
was it, precognitive sentient some phenomena,

665
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:31,199
And that's what you're dealing with in
a lot of these cases. This

666
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:37,360
is something that seems to know what
you're doing, where you're at where it's

667
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:42,079
going to make you have this encounter
and how you maybe even react to this

668
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:46,159
encounter. So you have to really
look at that close and you can call

669
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:50,800
it any label you want. It
really doesn't matter. That's that's neither here

670
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,000
nor there. The data just says
that there's something occurring U and sometimes these

671
00:52:55,039 --> 00:53:00,599
thought processes may not be our own. Sometimes these thought processes might be generated

672
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:05,119
from something else. And you really
have to look at a little closer at

673
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:08,480
that point, because that's when you
get these other people who have their belief

674
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:13,920
systems to come in and try to
tell you what you're seeing, and they

675
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,559
can't tell you because you don't know, they don't know. No one knows

676
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,880
whatever this is. It's very good
at hiding itself, you know. That's

677
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,599
Steve absolutely and by the way,
full disclosure. At the T and T

678
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:30,960
workshop, they was kindly asked me
to speak and h Susie Andy. I

679
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:37,360
talked about John Keel. I think
that's the first time you've said his name.

680
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,239
Listen, listen, I'm trying to. I'm getting withdraws, so I

681
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,320
had to say it. You can
mention Kill's name because he comes into play

682
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:53,679
in a lot of this honestly,
every single so we ever do so well,

683
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:58,880
I get residuals. What can I
tell you? Yes, so I've

684
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,800
got some more questions. But so, Susie Andy, would you like to

685
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,400
step in here. I was just
going to say, Steve, what you

686
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,239
need to do is write your book
because obviously if you're writing a book,

687
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,039
the connection gets stronger. As zoo
good stuff. There was an experience,

688
00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:14,760
So that's what you need to do
to have a phenomenal experience. And maybe

689
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,159
in the future there'll be some annoying
guy that keeps quoting me all the time.

690
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:23,320
I was actually doing research for my
book when I saw that or B

691
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,960
and Y. Yes exactly it.
I mean, you guys know I write

692
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,400
abo the occults. You can imagine
the kind of things I've experience where I'm

693
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,039
writing. Yes, absolutely, well, you got to think about this again.

694
00:54:35,159 --> 00:54:39,719
Let's let's take the label thing right. Think about all the practices over

695
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:45,440
the years, thousands and thousands of
years of humans trying to make contact with

696
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,280
you know, God, spirits whatever
they go through a ritual, don't they

697
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,840
Usually there's usually a ritual, and
the ritual is usually a programming process of

698
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,559
the mind. So if you really
think about it. That's exactly what you're

699
00:54:58,599 --> 00:55:02,679
doing. You're opening yourself. Well, that's that might be part of this.

700
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,039
If you hit that frequency just right
in the back of your mind,

701
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,920
Steve, maybe that's when you start
seeing this stuff. I don't know,

702
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,239
I'm just you know, spitballing.
But well, I'd certainly say as a

703
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,079
practitioner of magic for many years that
exactly the case. It is. The

704
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:22,039
more you work with, the more
things it's about women intended involving yourself and

705
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:27,159
what you're doing in order to and
the joys whatever is there with you.

706
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:30,880
You don't you don't create yourself,
but you enjoyed it. You become like

707
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,599
a light, like a beacon that
can be seen and picked up, and

708
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:37,480
these things will see that light and
will come to you. Well, I

709
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:42,960
did have that one experience, so
I've talked about before a few years ago,

710
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,519
when I was out in the T
and T area that night and it

711
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:49,079
came back to my hotel room and
the TV set turned down by itself and

712
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:53,079
started flipping through stations, which was
pretty bizarre because I went out there it

713
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:58,719
was a little creepy at night,
but I had absolutely no expectation of anything

714
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:04,039
happening. And again being of the
palty, the only paranormal experience I've ever

715
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:07,239
really had. It was just it
was truly bizarre. So I don't know,

716
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,639
you know, maybe just being in
that high stracious area at the right

717
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:15,840
or wrong time is what triggered it. I don't know, very possibly,

718
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:23,280
very possibly, Susie, do you
want my opinion on that? Oh?

719
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:30,239
Oh no, I want you to. Probably maybe you should send it in

720
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,280
writing and I'll have my people look
at it. But yeah, I'm also

721
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:40,119
wondering what everyone here's opinion is,
because I know there have been sightings where

722
00:56:40,159 --> 00:56:45,400
there have been multiple people, say, you know, five people, three

723
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,280
people had the same experience and two
people didn't have it at all. I

724
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,679
can actually say that was quite a
common thing when I used to be involved

725
00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:54,679
in the panormal events. I've worked
for a couple of different companies over the

726
00:56:54,800 --> 00:57:00,159
years, as you guys know that
did the exactly held pormal ghost hunts with

727
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,920
save members of the public. People
to come along. And often people would

728
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,639
come and perhaps the husband or the
wife our friend would come along as well,

729
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:08,960
but wasn't that interested in me,
believe, And we'd be seeing things,

730
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:12,159
experiences and stuff, and they'd be
like no, nothing happened. Didn't

731
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:13,920
say anything. I had no experience
at all. I thought, what you

732
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,960
guys are even talking about? But
they're clearly things happening around us, and

733
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:22,840
we were talking about audible sounds,
not just sort of feeling things being actually

734
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,239
being heard. And yet no,
I didn't hear that. But what they

735
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,320
would find often if we used to
come more often with a partner who was

736
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,960
a believer anyway, that they too
would start to experience things, it would

737
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:37,360
start to become aware. So there's
definitely a tuning process, both our minds

738
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,159
tuning into those things around us and
those things around us being more aware of

739
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:45,159
us. But if you want to
close your mind off of those experiences through

740
00:57:45,199 --> 00:57:50,239
either non belief or even fears wasn't
uncommon, then you can blank out those

741
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,039
experiences and not have them. So
it's definitely not something that's just out there

742
00:57:54,079 --> 00:58:00,440
in the world around us. It's
our interaction with these things is very important,

743
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:04,760
and it makes the phenomena become more
evident by our interaction with it,

744
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,440
rather than it would being passively observing. Because that was the other thing we

745
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:10,039
used to notice on events that if
we had a crowd who just wanted things

746
00:58:10,039 --> 00:58:14,360
happened to them, wanted to just
stand by and watch and not expect very

747
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:16,360
much. Then surprise, surprise,
very little, what ever happened. There

748
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:21,079
was definitely a correlation between the mindset
of the group, not individuals, a

749
00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:24,320
group and what would happen at the
location we were using that particular night.

750
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:29,079
So you do play on a huge
party in that. But yeah, people

751
00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:32,760
who are not willing to open their
mind to possibility, or again if they're

752
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:37,679
afraid, too afraid of the possibility
of these things, will experience nothing and

753
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:42,519
genuinely not experience nothing. They're not
pretending they genuinely had no experience. There

754
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:45,159
was a guy I remember one particular
event. There was six of the city

755
00:58:45,199 --> 00:58:49,039
around a table, very old table, and we could feel it vibrating.

756
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,880
There was no two ways about it. It was vibrating. Yet this one

757
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,639
person was absolutely insistent he couldn't feel
anything. He said, no, I

758
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:58,840
don't you're talking about I felt absolutely
nothing. We could all feel a tremor

759
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,000
in the table. It wasn't just
idious video response about bodies. We were

760
00:59:01,039 --> 00:59:06,320
all feeling this strange tremoring in the
table. This guy was convinced, now

761
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,559
I felt nothing, So the battery
that was attached to the leg He was

762
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:19,280
setting by John Tinney, who does
his website is Weird Lectures. He's a

763
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:22,119
great speaker, a great researcher.
He was in Breall Oak, Michigan,

764
00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:25,320
broad daylight, and he looks up
in the sky and he sees this silvery

765
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:29,960
object going overhead, and he's trying
to get some people to look at it,

766
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:31,599
and they're not just not paying any
attention. It's like, you know,

767
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:36,119
what are you talking about. Then
he looks down ways and he sees

768
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,159
a young girl looking up in the
sky at the same thing. So it's

769
00:59:39,199 --> 00:59:44,039
like there's this crowd of people in
broad daylight and they're the only two that

770
00:59:44,119 --> 00:59:49,559
seemed to be able to see this
object in the sky. It is strange

771
00:59:49,639 --> 00:59:52,719
that kind of flummer occurs. My
old friend of mine, when he was

772
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,039
back in his early teens, had
an experience which brought him into this field

773
00:59:55,079 --> 01:00:00,360
as well, which he was quite
ridiculous. He was on holiday with his

774
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,480
family and I think your two brothers, brothers and sister and both parents,

775
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:07,880
and they saw this blue object hovering
above the cottage they were staying in.

776
01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:12,239
They're all outside and saw it.
The rest of his family went, oh,

777
01:00:12,239 --> 01:00:14,760
Okay, that's interesting. He went
back inside and he stood outside looking

778
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,599
at it. It took a goog
and like, what the hell is that?

779
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:21,800
And he said the family didn't really
care. After about ten to fifteen

780
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:22,760
minutes, it seemed to just sort
of fade away. So he went back

781
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,239
inside and said his mom and dad
like, what do you think that was?

782
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:29,000
Oh? I don't really know.
And that was it. It was

783
01:00:29,039 --> 01:00:32,119
like they'd almost almost not seen it. He said, it was just bizarre,

784
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,239
and yet it was there, his
blue glow above the cottage, and

785
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,599
it was so realistic. But they
just they were seeing it, but it

786
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:40,800
just didn't seem to register to the
It was like it was nothing. It

787
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,920
was nothing important. It was almost
as if whatever it was was kind of

788
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,559
telling them you can't see me.
I don't matter. But my friend was

789
01:00:47,599 --> 01:00:51,400
like, no, I can see
this is real and he said, to

790
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:52,400
this day, I haven't seen for
a few years. It must be.

791
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:57,840
He said, he mentioned it very
recently. They don't remember it. They

792
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,840
know there was something odd and it
kind of yeah, it was a funny

793
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,639
light in the sky that night,
and said, well it was quite big.

794
01:01:02,679 --> 01:01:07,440
It was above the cottage. But
their response was like, oh,

795
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:12,440
whatever, not interested. It was
very strong. You said, jaquess normal

796
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,599
ahead, go ahead, Yeah,
you go ahead. You're you're, you're

797
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:22,880
going to do anything. Jacques Filet
was on a local radio show in Detroit

798
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,559
some years ago and one of the
calls was a woman talked about how she

799
01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:30,760
and her family several years before had
seen this uh metallic object hovering in the

800
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:37,079
sky, and they didn't talk about
it. It was like they didn't react

801
01:01:37,119 --> 01:01:39,920
to it. And then several years
later she thought about it and she started

802
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:45,039
asking them if they remember it,
and everybody remembered it, but nobody,

803
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,039
you know, nobody uh talked about
it at the time. Even Mary Higher

804
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,119
in the Mouthman Prophecies, she had
a sighting of something, some craft or

805
01:01:55,159 --> 01:02:00,599
whatever over the Ohio River, and
she kept forgetting to tell John Keele.

806
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:02,880
I mean, it was kind of
a classic sighting, but she she kept

807
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,920
slipping her mind. And then of
course we even have uh Betty and Barney

808
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,320
Hill. Well, they had a
very they had a shared experience and very

809
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:15,280
similar. There were certain aspects of
it that were very different. Uh.

810
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:21,679
Well, for example, Barney Hill
saw the aliens with with noses like Jimmy

811
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:28,079
Duranty's. If you don't know who
Jimmy Duranty was google them because Betty saw

812
01:02:28,159 --> 01:02:31,800
the aliens with more slit like noses
and that's quite a difference. But yeah,

813
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,719
it's just it's very bizarre. It
takes it out of the realm of

814
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:42,440
the the absolute physical, Yes,
because it's not it's not physical. I

815
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,519
don't think it's physical. And I'm
pretty comfortable saying that at this point.

816
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:51,440
It can be physical, but I
don't think that this is a physical thing.

817
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,920
I think that that was well,
that was one of my issues back

818
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:59,840
in the day with the with the
research was you know, I had to

819
01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:02,920
accept the fact that I was dealing
with some kind of non human intelligence.

820
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:08,280
That was just a matter of fact
at that point. And you know what

821
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:13,199
had happened, you know, with
the whole missing time thing, Steve was

822
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:17,800
that led me into even trying to
figure this out, was that I kept

823
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:23,400
having this reoccurring dream about you know, we were coming home from church and

824
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:28,559
there was this light in the sky
and you know then sometimes it's a helicopter,

825
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:30,360
and sometimes it's this and that,
and like that's and I drive by

826
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,719
this place all the time. I
know you can't pull off there. It

827
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,679
doesn't exist there's no there's no place, there's no shoulder there, you can't

828
01:03:37,719 --> 01:03:40,159
pull off the road. No one's
going to do that. So it's like

829
01:03:40,199 --> 01:03:43,239
this was a dream, but yet
I still see it, you know,

830
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,119
It's like it happened back in the
day. And so during my research,

831
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,000
you know, I finally get to
the point where I have to accept that

832
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,199
maybe this contact stuff's real, because
I didn't believe that stuff. I thought

833
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:58,880
that people were just misinterpreting out of
body experiences, that they were having spontaneous

834
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:03,000
out of body experiences. That's what
I called him, that this was common,

835
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:06,280
It's probably happening to a lot of
people, and there were nothing to

836
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:13,480
do with aliens or anything like that. And I had to readjust my thoughts

837
01:04:13,519 --> 01:04:16,639
on that, because I remember I
was reading some one of the books and

838
01:04:16,679 --> 01:04:21,440
in the Bacca's Little Checklist and one
of the things that's misplaced or misremembered memories

839
01:04:21,519 --> 01:04:26,239
or something like that, I'm thinking, huh, well, there's only one

840
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,400
thing that I can think of,
so ill of a long shot. I

841
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:31,440
went on and I talked to my
mom and I said, hey, you

842
01:04:32,159 --> 01:04:36,079
we didn't pull off the road and
see a UFO at some point coming home,

843
01:04:36,119 --> 01:04:40,559
from church, did we And she's
like, oh, you're talking about

844
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:43,800
that thing we saw back in blah
blah blah. That No, that wasn't.

845
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:45,920
That wasn't where that was at that
was And when she said that,

846
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:54,000
I remembered. And what's really funny
is it happened out near the gold Town

847
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,719
in that region, and I remembered
it all. At that point, I

848
01:04:58,719 --> 01:05:01,039
don't know exactly where it had happened. I'd like to actually go back there

849
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:06,239
because I have a theory. But
yeah, it kind of made me start

850
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,199
to say, well, there's there
could be an intelligence at work here,

851
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,840
and then let's see if we can
actually instigate some form of communication. And

852
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,320
that's what led to the experiment that
I did and the results that I got,

853
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,119
and which led to me saying,
Okay, I'm good, I got

854
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:25,679
to go away now for a little
bit, and then getting pulled back into

855
01:05:25,679 --> 01:05:30,039
it. I think it kind of
speaks to a deeper philosophical philosophical concept.

856
01:05:30,119 --> 01:05:32,840
Should I should say it's called poste
in the Morning's I'm fading a bit.

857
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:39,480
But the first concept that we deal
with what we call the subject relations,

858
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,920
where the idea is the object is
the world out then the subject is us,

859
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:47,159
and they're fundamentally separate from each other. We are independently observing reality around

860
01:05:47,239 --> 01:05:51,000
us. I think it's a modern
it's a mental constructs. I mean,

861
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:54,800
we are at one thing. You
know that the you know, and the

862
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,719
outer that the same thing. I
mean, you get to their own quantum

863
01:05:57,719 --> 01:06:01,880
physics. You exactly that. You
can't observe anything passively. You're actively participating

864
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,400
in your observation, and your observation
affects what you're observing. And I think

865
01:06:05,519 --> 01:06:10,320
that's the case of these phenomena.
They're not out there or just in us.

866
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,000
There's some kind of almost sometimes say
like a third space, but it's

867
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,239
not really a third It's that there's
the two separate divisions of subject or don't

868
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:21,639
really exist. They constructed for us
in a way for us to understand reality

869
01:06:21,639 --> 01:06:25,880
around us. But you know that's
the case all the time. It's that

870
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,320
third kind of thing. These things
particularly are somewhere between the two. They're

871
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,320
not object out there. Like I
said, your pet cat is obvied out

872
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:38,079
there that lives independently of us.
These things don't. They are not dependent

873
01:06:38,159 --> 01:06:41,519
upon us. But there is a
deeper connectivity, of very deep level that

874
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:46,320
requires us and them to be here
together. And to me that that makes

875
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,320
sense because I think you can talk
about the division between that UFOs and ghosts

876
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,039
as if they're setarate phenomena, which
I think we'd all agree they're not.

877
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,199
They're different aspects of the same kind
of phenomena that's being influenced by our own

878
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:02,800
beliefs and ideas. That's what nature
is, right, It's you have one

879
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:09,679
thing that offsets another thing and maintains
homeostasis. So you know, maybe there's

880
01:07:09,719 --> 01:07:14,920
other natural things out there that are
at play that we don't realize yet that

881
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,519
would exactly make sense. I say. I think you think these kind of

882
01:07:17,519 --> 01:07:23,159
phenomenons exist with around us, but
not quite on the same level of existence,

883
01:07:23,159 --> 01:07:25,360
shall we say, not as quite
a sort of the base level of

884
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:30,000
physical existence. That they are their
non corporeal, but will appear corporeal if

885
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:33,280
that's how they want or you either
you're perceiving them or they want to be

886
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:38,760
perceived as such, so they can
move around and defy basic laws of physics.

887
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,960
But as I say, talk about
quantum realms with those basic physicals fall

888
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,880
apart anyway. So if these things
are existing at that kind of level,

889
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:48,000
not trying to get too deep into
the ant mentor for Marvel, but that

890
01:07:48,079 --> 01:07:51,719
kind of level of existence as well
is going at the same time. So

891
01:07:51,960 --> 01:08:01,000
yeah, believe that instance of existence
in literally every religion on the planet.

892
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:09,039
And they even leave footprints sometimes even
they appear and disappear. And even the

893
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:15,840
so called dog man dear Bray Road
Apple's property, when they've gathered the hair

894
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:21,720
samples, there's no bedula in them. Yeah. See, that's that's indicative

895
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:32,279
of like bigfoot hair samples is the
absence of the medula. So I mean,

896
01:08:33,119 --> 01:08:36,000
were they dog man? Were they
misidentify because for the longest time I

897
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:41,359
used to think that the dog man
phenomena was just misidentified Bigfoot, But then

898
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,319
we seen some footage from some folks
that wasn't altered and it was very much

899
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:53,319
this non corporeal entity that was pretty
weird. We had started looking at it

900
01:08:53,359 --> 01:09:00,239
from more of a the dog man
probably exists on this weird extra dimensional a

901
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:04,920
plane part of the Phantom and Agerie. Yeah, right, exactly. We

902
01:09:05,039 --> 01:09:08,159
had a guest on it a couple
of months, but didn't you stay who

903
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:13,720
told his he was young of a
dog man type creature. That was guys,

904
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:15,319
if you've not heard it. It's
well worth a list. The way

905
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:19,239
he describes it is one in great
detail to you, very passionately, and

906
01:09:19,279 --> 01:09:25,319
three very believably. Matt Amate I
believe his name was. This was in

907
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,920
Youngstown, Ohio. Very incredible guy
and a very scary story. Absolutely,

908
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:33,199
I mean they're real. There's whatever
this thing is, it's real. That's

909
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:39,039
that's the thing. People need to
understand this. This isn't it would be.

910
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:45,720
It would be a neat story,
right if it was only I don't

911
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:50,000
know, a couple hundred people,
a couple thousand people whatever that are telling

912
01:09:50,039 --> 01:09:54,119
these stories. But it's not.
It's millions. It's millions of people who

913
01:09:54,199 --> 01:10:00,439
are experiencing literally cookie cutter type phenomena. And you have to really you look

914
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:04,119
at that for what it is.
Either there's something going on, or there

915
01:10:04,159 --> 01:10:11,520
is a massive defect in someone's you
know, in our brain and half of

916
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:16,199
humanity is just having these multiple delusions, or either having some kind of a

917
01:10:16,239 --> 01:10:19,479
psychic event. Now I don't know
which one is easier for you guys to

918
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:25,840
believe, but it's easier for me
to believe that there is an external force

919
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:30,920
at work here that's very intelligent,
rather than all of us are having a

920
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:36,039
collective psychosis and interface us with human
consciousness somehow. Yes, yeah, I

921
01:10:36,079 --> 01:10:40,399
think try not to go down the
marvel root. If you talk about a

922
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:44,159
multiverse that exists around us, the
possibility that sounds like a dog man is

923
01:10:45,119 --> 01:10:48,880
basically a dog that is developed into
an intelligent being in this way that obviously

924
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:53,119
we are based on monkeys, depends
ey ceca that we developed from those.

925
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,840
But maybe there's an alternate reality where
dogs of the creature that develops the bigger

926
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,880
brains, became more sort of bipedal
and became more intelligent. All of you

927
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:02,720
talking about things like that, they've
come from another reality which they're the dominant

928
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,760
preacher, if you like, and
they've somehow accidentally slipped through into hours and

929
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:10,159
then sit out of it again.
And you've got to throw all that on

930
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:13,600
a table. It's literally what we
do. I mean, everything is on

931
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,359
the table. Speaking of the table. That's not much of a segue.

932
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:23,720
But you guys, you guys are
doing a program on YouTube coming up right.

933
01:11:27,039 --> 01:11:30,239
I don't think it's limited to just
YouTube, but yes, okay,

934
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,000
and what's it called and where will
we be able to see it? It

935
01:11:35,039 --> 01:11:45,960
is? The show is called Paranormal
Horizons. Currently, the only announced broadcasting

936
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:49,359
platform is YouTube, but there are
some other things that it might appear in.

937
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:55,760
And if all goes well, how
often will you be doing one of

938
01:11:55,800 --> 01:12:01,079
these shows? The schedules will once
a month's schedule. It's the Small Town

939
01:12:01,119 --> 01:12:06,560
Monsters is who is who we're doing
this for, and they've got a monthly

940
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:14,920
rollout schedule for all of their content
and will drop. The first episode drops

941
01:12:15,159 --> 01:12:20,319
on July fourteenth International, like globally
everybody can see it. It drops on

942
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:26,520
the eleventh if you are a squad
member with Small Town Monsters and you'll get

943
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:31,439
to watch it in four K and
add free, but everybody everywhere will be

944
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,960
able to see it on the fourteenth. The first episode. Anyway, it's

945
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:40,720
very cool, it's very neat,
and you know, it was something that

946
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,760
we were asked to do, and
so this isn't something I mean, this

947
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,319
is entirely our product. We were
literally approached and asked, hey, can

948
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:54,399
what do you guys think about this? And we're like, sure, we'll

949
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,479
give this a shot. And what
do you want? What do you want

950
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,319
it to be about? Whatever you
guys want, So it's going to be

951
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:05,279
centered mostly on your investigations. It
is. Yeah, it's basically our story.

952
01:13:05,319 --> 01:13:10,840
It's the data so far basically is
what it comes down to, and

953
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:17,399
it's it's definitely shaping up to reveal
a sort of a pattern in events.

954
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:20,760
And I think that people are going
to I think they're gonna like it.

955
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:25,600
I think they're gonna like the direction
it goes. And people can keep up

956
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:32,159
with you on your podcast, Wild
and Weird West Virginia Wide and Weird Radio

957
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:38,880
and a lot YouTube channel is Wild
and Weird wv okay and it's live on

958
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:43,920
Thursday nights, right yep. Oh
yeah. Normally we have two shows a

959
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,760
week. We've got one recorded and
one live. But during production with this

960
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,560
project, we've had to cut back
a little bit because of time constraints and

961
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:57,960
whatnot. So currently we are just
doing the live. Well, we should

962
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,640
probably wrap it up. I think
I don't want Andy to collapse and on

963
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:06,279
the floor and hours ahead of us. Yes, and so. But in

964
01:14:06,399 --> 01:14:13,359
closing Susie Andy, anything other questions
or thoughts, I just have to say

965
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,399
that I had to mute myself earlier
to laugh because I had a thought pop

966
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:23,479
into my head that if Steve ever
does have a paranormal experience. It'll be

967
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:30,159
the ghost of John Keel for sure. Yes, that's that's what it's going

968
01:14:30,239 --> 01:14:34,039
to be. Steve. Now I'll
have him dictate his sequel to the Eighth

969
01:14:34,079 --> 01:14:40,600
Tower. We'll have all the answers
will be done. Well. One thing

970
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:43,760
I want to say, guys is
that you know, there's a lot of

971
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,880
there's a lot of negativity out there. I mean there's a certain percentage we've

972
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:53,359
all experienced it. I know Susan's
experienced some of it fairly recently, and

973
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,079
I have there's a guy that loves
to malign me and many other people.

974
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:04,439
But you guys, you guys have
a create an atmosphere and and uh of

975
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:10,760
cooperation and fun with your your workshops, with your show and so forth.

976
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:14,720
You know, you you're kind of
like the go to guys if people want

977
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:19,000
to learn, uh learn about how
to cast footprints or or or you know,

978
01:15:19,279 --> 01:15:24,520
have uh open discussions on these things. So it's a you could you

979
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:29,880
could call wild and weird West Virginia
a safe space in the paranormal. Oh,

980
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,840
it's one hundred percent that it was
designed to be that. And uh,

981
01:15:33,359 --> 01:15:36,039
you know, I wanted to create
a community that we never had.

982
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,880
It really did because I'll tell you, guys, this you talk about,

983
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,439
this is nothing compared to the reptalk
community. I just want to just tell

984
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:49,079
you they are man, they are
reptile people. They're pirates. They're there,

985
01:15:49,119 --> 01:15:53,880
cutthroats, pirates you ever meet.
I'm not kidding you. And uh,

986
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,359
this is nothing compared to them.
I mean people, Yeah, they

987
01:15:57,359 --> 01:16:00,319
don't get along. They have different
ideas and one calls you this or calls

988
01:16:00,359 --> 01:16:04,079
you that and starts a drama.
But the reptile community has had houses burnt

989
01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:13,600
down, animals stolen. Yeah it's
a snake or because somebody didn't sell somebody

990
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,560
a gecko and they sold somebody else
and so then they burnt their house down.

991
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:21,520
No, it's it's these are true
stories. So really we're kind of

992
01:16:23,039 --> 01:16:27,920
almost a little blessed if it's just
a bunch of you know, he said,

993
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,840
she said drama stuff, because you
know, but everyone's entitled their opinion.

994
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,039
And what we've decided to do from
day one, though, Steve,

995
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:39,439
was to create it, like you
said, a safe place for people to

996
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:44,880
come in tell their accounts openly,
freely. And uh, it's just blown

997
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,159
my mind to see some people do
that and they know that they're safe to

998
01:16:48,199 --> 01:16:51,239
do that. There's not going to
be any bylash and no one's going to

999
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:56,399
say anything, you know about it. It's it's it's a good place to

1000
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:00,479
do that. But yeah, there's
that's the call. Well, the goal

1001
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:02,159
is to you know, do that. And we've uh, what do we

1002
01:17:02,199 --> 01:17:06,560
call ourself there in Joe the West
Virginia normal ambassadors Ambassadors of the paranormal.

1003
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:11,199
That's what we ran with for a
long time, still do because we're trying

1004
01:17:11,239 --> 01:17:14,239
to not so much normalize I guess
the paranormal. That's what we used to

1005
01:17:14,239 --> 01:17:16,399
say, but we're never normalize it, but make it a little more normal

1006
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,880
so you can at least set around
the family table and say, you know

1007
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,960
what, I guess what happened to
me today? And no one thinks you're

1008
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,520
crazy. That's the whole point,
because you're not crazy. There's just too

1009
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,640
many people who are experiencing this stuff. So I can tell you the food

1010
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:36,479
is great work, oh man,
that's all Joe. Yeah, for many

1011
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:42,279
moons I was. I was a
big shot chef and had a whole career

1012
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:47,399
and yeah, good times, well
very good. Uh, And tell everybody

1013
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:50,960
how they can find you and get
a hold of you. Well, if

1014
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:56,600
you want to keep up with everything
that Wild and Weird West Virginia is doing,

1015
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:01,199
you can do that primarily at Wild
and Weird w From there, you'll

1016
01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:05,600
find links to our YouTube channel.
You'll be able to listen to the backlogs

1017
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:12,239
episodes from eons ago of Wild and
Weird Radio, and you can actually sit

1018
01:18:12,319 --> 01:18:15,920
down and listen for about six days
without ever taking a break. Now,

1019
01:18:16,199 --> 01:18:18,880
if you want to go support us, the best way to do that is

1020
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:25,119
go to YouTube. Go to Wild
and Weird WV in your search engine,

1021
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:31,039
smash that like and subscribe button like
it owes you money, and then then

1022
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,119
you hit the notification battle. Because
you want to stay tuned for everything that

1023
01:18:36,119 --> 01:18:41,359
we've got coming up, especially with
what we've got going on with Small Town

1024
01:18:41,399 --> 01:18:45,840
Monsters, you're gonna want to go
check out small Town Monsters YouTube as well.

1025
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:53,560
Go and subscribe, and yeah,
that's gonna be a good time because

1026
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:58,439
there's some really really really weird stuff
coming up really really really really soon.

1027
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:02,319
Good Ron and Joe, thanks for
being here. I knew it was going

1028
01:19:02,399 --> 01:19:08,560
to be a blast absolutely, and
Andy and Susie thanks for writing Shotgun with

1029
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:14,439
me as always and my pleasure and
I will just sit tight, everybody,

1030
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,359
I will close out the show.
The High Strangess Factor was created by Steve

1031
01:19:18,399 --> 01:19:23,960
Ward and Andy Mercer and his copywriter
on the Paranormal UK Radio network. I

1032
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,840
want to thank our fearless leaders here
at Paranormal UK Radio, Irene Alan Block,

1033
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:33,199
Mark Johnson and Andy Mercer. Andy
also as producer for The High Strangers

1034
01:19:33,279 --> 01:19:40,920
Factor, and also Susie Bastile for
saving my tukus with stream Yard. Brian

1035
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,479
Zeller and Ady Mercer have composed the
music for the show. I can also

1036
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,439
be heard weekly on mccaloney's Military X
Files as a correspondent on this same network

1037
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:53,800
and many other platforms. In fact, you will also hear Andy and Susie

1038
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,640
about once a month on MAC Show. And I am Steve Ward, your

1039
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:01,960
humble host here on The High Strations
Factor. A displaced Michigander deep in the

1040
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:06,600
Ohio Valley in West by God,
Virginia, itches from downtown Point Pleasant,

1041
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:12,319
living on the very same road that
the Mothman chased cars in the middle sixties.

1042
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,520
Thank you all for listening, Andy
Mercer and I will see you again

1043
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,520
in approximately a fortnight. Take care,