1 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,960 We are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, 2 00:00:21,039 --> 00:00:26,480 Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's Quest for 3 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:32,000 Knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio at the Federalist 4 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:37,920 dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make sure to subscribe 5 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,200 wherever you download your podcast, and of course to the premium version of our 6 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,719 website as well. I'm joined today by Army Reserve veteran and J six prisoner 7 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:53,399 Tim Hale. He joins us to talk about his prison sentence and the Supreme 8 00:00:53,479 --> 00:01:00,399 Court ruling that found Tim and hundreds of others just like him wrongly can victed 9 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,719 of obstruction charges in the wake of the January sixth, twenty twenty one riots 10 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,480 at the Capitol. Thank you for being here, sir. I do appreciate 11 00:01:08,519 --> 00:01:12,879 your time and appreciate you joining us on the Federalist Radio Hour. Thank you 12 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,560 very much for having me. It's an honor to be with you. Let 13 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:22,959 me begin here with the writings from my Federalist colleague Tristan Justice, who wrote 14 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:29,920 the story after the Supreme Court ruling that came down last week. The Supreme 15 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:36,760 Court ruled that the Department of Justice used an inappropriately broad interpretation of federal statute 16 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:42,000 to prosecute a former police officer who was charged because of his involvement in the 17 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,040 Capital riot on January sixth, twenty twenty one. On Friday, the Justices 18 00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:51,120 delivered the six' to three decision in Fisher v. United States, ruling 19 00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:57,239 Joseph Fisher should not have been charged with obstruction of an official proceeding under the 20 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:01,560 two thousand and two Sarbines Oxley Act. The statute has been used by the 21 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:07,439 DOJ to charge more than three hundred defendants with felonies in the more than three 22 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:13,120 years since the riot, with the defendants facing a prison sentence of up to 23 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,319 twenty years. Tim Hale, you were one of those three hundred. Let 24 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,479 me get your initial thoughts on what was going through your mind when this ruling 25 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:30,879 came down. Vindication more than anything, you know. Not everybody was able 26 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:36,199 to fight their cases because they feared the punishment that would come from the trial 27 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:40,520 tax, as it's called, from going to trial to defend against the statute 28 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:45,879 against this charge. I actually went to trial. I didn't take a plea 29 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:51,000 deal. I didn't get the better end of the deal during that during that 30 00:02:51,319 --> 00:02:54,400 trial. But I'm glad that I was one of the people who fell on 31 00:02:54,479 --> 00:03:01,120 a sword fighting that case. I'm I'm very happy with the result of this 32 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:08,479 decision. It was the right decision, and this statute was applied inappropriately for 33 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,280 three years. I wish I didn't have to lose three years of my life, 34 00:03:13,759 --> 00:03:16,919 but I'm glad it was for the right cause. I was going to 35 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:22,039 say, fell on the sword. Indeed, you were convicted on four charge 36 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,960 as the obstruction charge as well. I mean, that was the felony, 37 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,560 that was the big one, that was the one that could have sent you 38 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:35,280 to prison, as we noted for for twenty years. You served the time, 39 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:39,560 So I know it is vindication in your case, But how do you 40 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:46,800 feel about having served the time for that charge when the Supreme Court, in 41 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,800 a six' to three ruling says you shouldn't have been charged with that at 42 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,039 all. Well, I'm certainly not happy with it, but I'm more of 43 00:03:55,039 --> 00:04:00,400 a stoic person than most, so I kind of to Grin and Barrett because 44 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,639 I knew I'd win in the long run. But you know, I just 45 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:10,479 kind of had to bear my cross there's no there's no scenario where I say 46 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:14,960 that I'm happy I lost three years of my life, but at the end 47 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,439 of the day, I'm happy with I'm happy with my dedication to you know, 48 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:26,000 fighting this case. This, this all would have been a lot better 49 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,120 or I'm sorry, this all would have been a lot differently if defendants weren't 50 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,600 charged with this in the first place. But you know, I'm not married, 51 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:36,600 I don't have kids, so I didn't have to make maybe as hard 52 00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:40,839 a decision as some other defendants. But at a principle, I had to 53 00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:43,759 fight my I had to fight my case, and I had to fight that 54 00:04:43,879 --> 00:04:47,759 charge. If the dj had just given people misdemeanors or tickets like they normally 55 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:50,800 do with leftists, I don't even think this would have made it to the 56 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:58,560 Supreme Court. Yeah, this is clearly a case that I think a lot 57 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,879 of us have looked at those who have investigated these cases over the years. 58 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,959 There's the political stink all over that. I think that that goes without saying. 59 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,319 But I mean, you did some hard time as well, and what 60 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,879 I mean by that is correct me if I'm wrong, But didn't you have 61 00:05:16,959 --> 00:05:23,079 to serve like others in kind of solitary confinement during the COVID years, you 62 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:30,240 had, you know, at points no contact with family, no contact at 63 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,800 one point. I know some didn't have contact with attorneys for a while, 64 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:39,160 that's correct, and I was one of those some. For all those I 65 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:43,680 was in the d C jail as it's called the d C Gulag or d 66 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,600 C GIMO. I was one of the first people in there, and I 67 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:49,879 was in there. I was one of the longest held there. I was 68 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,959 put there very early on as well. So as you noted, d C 69 00:05:54,199 --> 00:05:57,800 is probably worse than any deep blue state when it came to the COVID restrictions, 70 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:00,879 and that was a trojan horse for them to strip us of all civil 71 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:04,319 rights. So we were denied due process, we were denied religious services, 72 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:09,480 denied access to our lawyers, denied access to our discovery, our evidence, 73 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,839 and yes, we couldn't see our families either. Yeah, that was a 74 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:19,439 tragedy in and of itself. The conditions in the jail improved after the first 75 00:06:19,519 --> 00:06:26,600 year, but the first year, yes, was mostly solitary confinement twenty three 76 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:30,000 hours a day in our cell. There were moments where they decreased it to 77 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,600 twenty two hours but yeah, I mean, the whole thing was a trojan 78 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:41,680 horse. And you know, that's another reason we can't fall for these emergency 79 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,839 state power situations because after a while, frankly, DC stopped with the COVID 80 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,959 stuff, but the jail did not. The jail just kept doing it anyway. 81 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,360 So yes, it was definitely a hard time. You could even say 82 00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:58,480 it was cruel and unusual punishment. You could even say it was tortured. 83 00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:00,680 Now again, I'm a very stole a person, so I could kind of 84 00:07:01,399 --> 00:07:05,800 I could resist it a lot better than some people, perhaps well Tim, 85 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:12,639 as we know from those who took another critical case before the Supreme Court this 86 00:07:12,759 --> 00:07:20,160 year, homeless camping out at public places or not being allowed to do so, 87 00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:28,160 that's cruel and unusual punishment according to the left. But these are very 88 00:07:28,199 --> 00:07:32,920 strange times in which we live. Take me back to that day January sixth, 89 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,720 twenty twenty one, when a lot of stories written about Tim Hale in 90 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:45,720 particular, and you had argued at your trial, Hey, I had no 91 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:53,680 intention of thwarting an election I was part of you know, thousands and thousands 92 00:07:53,680 --> 00:08:01,199 of people across the country very upset about you know, what happened during the 93 00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:05,879 twenty twenty election. As I've read the stories, I believe you were of 94 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,000 the mind, like many of us, that there certainly were a lot of 95 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,879 shenanigans pulled under the cover of COVID, a lot of irregularities, and some 96 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:18,399 law is clearly broken. I've investigated that. But tell me what it was 97 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,000 like on that day and how does it differ than the depiction that we've seen 98 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:30,319 in corporate media. Well, certainly, and yes, I would say irregularities 99 00:08:30,399 --> 00:08:39,039 is putting it lightly. The story of the insurrection is completely fraudulent, and 100 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,679 I'm sure, I mean everybody knows now years later, of course, but 101 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:46,960 Donald Trump never said to go to the capitol and riot. He said go 102 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:52,279 there to peacefully and patriotically protest. Right. Part of the reason I think 103 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,559 people like me were denied bonds so much was because I think a lot of 104 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,279 people had video on their person, and that would have discounted this narrative. 105 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,440 One of the things the first things I did after getting out of prison was 106 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:11,759 released a video from my phone showing that people were meandering from the Ellipse area 107 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,840 to the Capitol. There was no race to get there. This kind of 108 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:22,240 goes against the notion that people had this mindset, this men's area of obstruction. 109 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:28,759 But even further, you need to understand that there was a perimeter setup 110 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:33,240 that was barely guarded by Capitol Police, and this was breached by gentlemen including 111 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:39,159 Ray Epps FBI informant James Knowles, And this happened a half hour before people 112 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:45,320 like me showed up. There were almost like chicken wire fencing that had rollout 113 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:50,440 fencing that had signs that said no trespassing, restricted area, what have you. 114 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:54,799 And these were literally cut down, rolled up and moved. So thousands 115 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,320 of people poured into an area not realizing they weren't allowed to be there. 116 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,320 And so for an hour after that, people were still just kind of pouring 117 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,159 into the area and just chanting. Singing on my phone, We're singing God, 118 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:13,240 Bless America. We're chanting USA, We're chanting Christ as King. And 119 00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:18,320 from my perspective, there's no indication at all that there's any violence happening. 120 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:22,039 What you end up happening, which you end up having, is that through 121 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,840 an ocean of people, there are some agitators in the crowd who are basically 122 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,879 going back and forth with the Capitol Police. For the most part, it 123 00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:37,120 doesn't escalate too far. What actually ends up happening, though, is that 124 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:41,399 the Metro pds show up and they're extremely aggressive. They end up firing flash 125 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,440 bangrenades into the middle of the crowd. The crowd is incited, they lash 126 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,399 out at the cops. The cops return and so return fire, so to 127 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:54,399 speak, and so it just becomes this snowball effect. But the average person 128 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,879 there had no idea what was happening. The average person there was not violent. 129 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,679 The average person there actually thought that they were under attacked by the cap 130 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:07,120 by the police. And so there was this sense of righteous indignation from the 131 00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:11,600 average person who was there when you know, the cops are bodies, slamming 132 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,840 old ladies and so like they're actually doing this with riot shields. They're slamming 133 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,480 into people, They're spraying people for no reason. And when an agitator does 134 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:22,679 get out of hand, and there were a few of them, let there 135 00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:26,279 be no mistake about that, they don't necessarily deal with that individual. As 136 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,120 I say, they'll throw a flash bangrenade in the middle of a peaceful crowd 137 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,759 instead of dealing with the agitators. So a lot of this is heavily coordinated 138 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,960 if you watch the CCTV or the body cameras, you can clearly see that 139 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,919 there are actors in the crowd. There were well, for lack of a 140 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,159 better term, I'll use the term crisis actor, but there were there were 141 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,240 plain clothed individuals who blended into the crowd who were trying to hype people up 142 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:54,799 and get them into trouble. I met several of them inside the DC jail. 143 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:00,240 There were federal informants pretty much all over the place, and I'll I'll 144 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:03,960 say this further. Inside the Capitol Building, once people got away from the 145 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:13,120 excessive force on the outside, people inside the Capitol Building were very respectful of 146 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:16,200 the building. People inside the Capitol Building were walking through velvet ropes like it 147 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,120 was a tour of a museum. There were a couple of people who got 148 00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:26,559 out of hand inside the building, but even those people are suspect most of 149 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:31,320 the day, and most of the people were not out of hand at all. 150 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,600 It was absolutely not an insurrection. And it's a complete disservice to the 151 00:12:35,639 --> 00:12:39,879 country that the corporate media as you call it, has basically been replaying the 152 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:43,519 same thirty second clips for three years. And this is why there's so much 153 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,320 resistance to releasing the CCTV in all the thousands of hours of video. Not 154 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,000 only would it help defendants build their case that they were entrapped, or that 155 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:56,960 they were engaging in self defense, or that they just didn't even do what 156 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,519 they're accused of, it would also pull the veil over the eyes of the 157 00:13:00,519 --> 00:13:03,679 American public. So there's a lot that's there's a lot that's been withheld, 158 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:09,559 there's a there's a lot that's been misrepresented, and it's been used for basically 159 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,120 a political inquisition. I agree. I think that's very important. I want 160 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,720 to I want to get back to that momentarily. But as you noted, 161 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:22,639 there's no doubt that there were some some people in that crowd, and it 162 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:28,320 may be a small percentage, but you know, uh they were they were 163 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:33,679 breaking stuff up. They were certainly committing crimes outside of the you know, 164 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,559 the the if you will excuse the turn of raise the trumped up Sarbines Oxley. 165 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:45,679 You know, the use by this U Attorney General in the Department of 166 00:13:45,879 --> 00:13:54,120 Justice trying to manipulate these these sort of charges to to you know, execute 167 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:58,840 the maximum damage that they possibly could for their narrative. But did you see 168 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,039 as you were in there. Some of the vandalism that indeed was occurring, 169 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:09,279 and you know, some of the aggression that we have seen in those clips, 170 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:15,000 and those are some damning clips. No, in fact, like most 171 00:14:15,039 --> 00:14:18,679 of that, I would say most of the aggression in terms of violence or 172 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,799 anything like that, I'd say that was limited to predominantly on the Western Terrace 173 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:28,519 and especially in an area you would call the lower West Terrace Tunnel. And 174 00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:33,879 there's an element to that area I think was kind of a sort of a 175 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:35,960 trap or a photo op. A lot of that. Of course, you 176 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,720 know, I'm sure you've heard the story of Roseanne Boiland. There are a 177 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,159 lot of people who were effectively trying to, you know, defend people that 178 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,759 they saw being injured or who they thought were under attack. But as I 179 00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:50,559 said, inside the building, in terms of vandalism, the closest thing I 180 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:56,480 saw to vandalism inside the building was people had put like Trump flags. I'm 181 00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:58,159 sorry, do you have Trump flags in the hands of statues? Or they 182 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:05,639 put like a ma I had on a statue I actually I actually was looking 183 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:07,360 at. I mean, that's basically what I spent most of my time doing 184 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,879 inside the Capital, inside an area called the Crypt is. The crypt is 185 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:16,279 a circular, circular room, a large room with a bunch of statues. 186 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,840 So people were just posing with statues and taking pictures. It was kind of 187 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:24,799 like dorky. Actually it was not in any way. It was not in 188 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:31,440 any way as egregious as the media would like to portray. As matter of 189 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,759 fact, there were people picking up garbage. Actually, the Capitol Police had 190 00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:41,360 left a bunch of trash in crypt Lobby East, and then it was actually 191 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:45,200 protesters when they came in the area. You can actually watch on the CCTV 192 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,840 as they collect the trash and put it in garbage bags. You know, 193 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,399 not everybody, not everybody disrespected the so called Temple of Democracy. Quite the 194 00:15:54,440 --> 00:16:00,799 contrary. People were in awe, you know. And I could save myself 195 00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:03,679 as well, seeing the statues, the architecture. It was the people's house, 196 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:10,679 and I think people more or less treated as such. I think I 197 00:16:10,759 --> 00:16:15,279 think it was a very complex day and there were a lot of moving pieces. 198 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,200 So I would say not every not every civilian, not everybody in the 199 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,120 crowds was a good person. Not every person in the crowds was a bad 200 00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:29,159 one. Not every officer that day was a monster, but not every officer 201 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,399 that day was doing their job appropriately, and so I think it's a very 202 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,559 complicated day, and I think that's why they go for the simple narratives. 203 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,240 Could people tend to latch onto simple narratives. But I do think that if 204 00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:48,799 you examine it holistically, then you come away seeing that this was really not 205 00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:56,000 at all what it was portrayed as. Government intervention has ruined yet another industry. 206 00:16:56,039 --> 00:17:00,200 The Watched Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, 207 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,960 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how it affects your 208 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,279 wallet. After Seattle imposed a minimum wage for delivery drivers, customers, drivers, 209 00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:11,440 and restaurants saw less orders and longer wait times. When government messes with 210 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,200 the free market, it fails every single time. Whether it's happening in DC 211 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,119 or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check 212 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,519 out the Watchdotal on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, 213 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:30,279 or wherever you get your podcast. Well, and there is this point, 214 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,759 if it is what they say it is, that is the Biden administration. 215 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:44,319 Democrats in this country campaigning on J six, the J six Committee, which 216 00:17:44,599 --> 00:17:49,720 now of course, as we learn more and more just how politically driven this. 217 00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:59,200 You know, this sham of an investigative committee was led by liberal politicians 218 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,599 in Washington, d see, with a clear motive involved here. But if 219 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:10,000 they didn't have anything to hide, a they would release all of the footage, 220 00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:15,640 they would not have destroyed evidence. And yet nobody in like I said, 221 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,799 the accomplice or corporate media, seems to be all that concerned about it. 222 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,319 When you have testified in court, when you are saying to us now 223 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:29,519 and you've said repeatedly as much as you could over the last several years, 224 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:37,200 Hey, what they're telling you happened did not happen. In fact, full 225 00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:44,519 video will show you that. Why do you think we have all of these 226 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:52,359 government officials, particularly the Department of Justice, opting to keep this information from 227 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:59,680 the public. So this is a doozy So bear with me here mentioning starving 228 00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:03,759 Zac. You know, the original statute for fifteen twelve, of course, 229 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,519 was just you know, tampering with a witness, and it went back to 230 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:11,640 the eighties. But you know that substatute of fifteen twelve we'd all been charged 231 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,799 with. You know, that was added in two thousand and three after the 232 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,759 Enron scandal. And what's very interesting is that the first judge to uphold fifteen 233 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:25,680 twelve for j six defendants was was Dabney Friedrich, and her husband was actually 234 00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:30,160 on the Enron Task Force. So there's a conflict of interest there that I 235 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,559 don't feel was ever fully investigated appropriately as to why she didn't recuse herself or 236 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:38,519 what have you. But further than that, and this is you know, 237 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:44,039 take this as anecdotal evidence, but I do have the signatures of my fellow 238 00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:49,519 inmates from the jail on this matter. The first defendants to have fifteen twelve 239 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,480 upheld were federal informants. So Nathan de Grave, Ronald Sandlin, and Josiah 240 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,440 Colt, three co defendants, were there actually to get out of trouble with 241 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:03,599 the Feds. For instance, one of them, to Grave, had actually 242 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,240 been caught in a drug conspiracy in twenty twenty, and his co defendant, 243 00:20:07,319 --> 00:20:11,200 Sandlin, had admitted as much. So it's a little suspicious that the first 244 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,480 defendants that have fifteen twelve upheld were federal informants, and then you have the 245 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,160 connection to their judge, to the task force itself. There seems like there's 246 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:26,319 a lot that could easily point to this being basically coordinated specifically not just for 247 00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:30,240 you know, January sixth offendance, but really a long game for them to 248 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:36,039 go after President Trump. So they could not only get away with January sixth 249 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:41,000 and you know, sabotaging his supporters there and sabotaging the claims against the election 250 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,559 being rigged in twenty twenty, but also as a long term plan to sabotage 251 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:48,720 any attempt to run in twenty twenty four. So I do think this is 252 00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:57,119 ultimately a narrative that's meant to sabotage the political aspirations of an extremely popular political 253 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,960 figure. But I also think in the long run, this is just you 254 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,400 know, as you've alluded to, this charge is really a way to it 255 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:15,440 was really a way to basically pull plea deals and confessions out of defendants because 256 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,400 they feared, as you said, a twenty year sentence. Now, a 257 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,319 few people have actually gotten that twenty year sentence, but a lot of people 258 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,960 have had sentences that were excessive, exorbitant compared to what they ought to have 259 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:33,880 had. Like in my instance, I got was I got over twice my 260 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,880 sentence in guidelines with a four year sentence when I was calculated it only twenty 261 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,960 one months. The fifteen twelve charge has been used, along with a grab 262 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:47,400 bag of misdemeanors and other nonsense, as well as enhancements and terrorism enhancements and 263 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,720 all that. It's really just been a you It's been a way to target 264 00:21:51,759 --> 00:21:55,039 Trump supporters, and I think part of it is really just to scare people, 265 00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:57,680 not just from January sixth, but in general. I think it's a 266 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:03,440 way to scare Middle America and to keep them from ever taking a stand on 267 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,359 pretty much anything. I think it's a way to pacify the public and to 268 00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:15,559 normalize election fraud and to normalize basically the submission of the people like myself who 269 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:18,799 were in the military or in the case of Fisher, a police officer. 270 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,319 I think it's a way to pacify the people who actually make the country function, 271 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:29,240 to just make them go along with the machinations of the power structure without 272 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,880 standing with the people they swear an oath to, which is not the people 273 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,359 in power, but actually the public. So I think there's a lot they've 274 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,519 invested in this. I think the reason they're still doing it even though nobody 275 00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:45,119 even believes this anymore. The insurrection narrative. I think they're still going with 276 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,319 it because it's pretty much all they have. I think they put all their 277 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:52,240 eggs in one basket. You could say they're going to run on abortion or 278 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,200 what have you like, Okay, maybe, but I think the insurrection narrative 279 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:02,160 or Trump supporters are anti democracy broadly. I think it's all they have. 280 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,440 So I think that's pretty much it. I think there's a lot. I 281 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,720 think there's a lot of truth to that, especially after the recent debate, 282 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:17,279 the debacle of Joe Biden and the nation and the world for the first time, 283 00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:26,079 millions of people seeing the deterioration mentally, cognitively, physically of the president 284 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,960 of the United States, the president of the United States. Yes, exactly. 285 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:34,400 So I think that. And it's interesting because you look at the decision, 286 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,559 the six to three decision, you will see justices who say that the 287 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,119 use of Sarbanes Oxley, and that's what it's really all about, is that 288 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:48,640 that was an injustice for anybody who values the rule of law in this country. 289 00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:55,279 That's the Department of Justice, federal prosecutors going way too far as they 290 00:23:55,319 --> 00:24:06,640 did throughout this entire case, this entire investigation in pursuit of naked political you 291 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,839 know, narratives out there, and you know these are the people who claim 292 00:24:12,079 --> 00:24:17,359 to be the defenders of democracy. It doesn't square when you take a look 293 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,799 at the full body of evidence. We are talking to Tim Hale, Army 294 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,000 Reserve veteran J six prisoner, on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 295 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,920 Tim, you are well spoken, You're a bright guy. So this is 296 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,839 what I do not understand. When you testified, you said, and I 297 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:42,160 can understand this, that you were not there for an insurrection. You were 298 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,640 not there for any of the sort of things that you know. It's been 299 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:53,759 painted by the Department of Justice, by federal prosecutors, and by the corporate 300 00:24:53,799 --> 00:25:02,079 media that said you didn't know according to testimony, that you know Congress was 301 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,839 where the official business was taking place. I have a difficult time believing that 302 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,680 is, I mean, how could that be. Well, just to clarify, 303 00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:15,960 I never said I didn't know Congress was debating the issue. What I 304 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,920 actually was arguing was that I literally did not know what building I was in. 305 00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:26,519 I was not familiar with d C and I largely followed the crowd that 306 00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:30,119 was in front of me. So actually I just genuinely did not actually know 307 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:37,160 where I was walking to, and so that that, yeah, I understand, 308 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,720 but that's interesting to me. But you have you have you have in 309 00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:44,319 the course of this conversation. I mean you have you have described in great 310 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,359 detail the building that you didn't know you were in, right, and that 311 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,960 that is of course retroactive. Keep in mind, I was following the crowd 312 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,440 all the way from the ellipse, and I had actually gone several days without 313 00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:04,000 sleep. I had been sprayed, I had had flashbanks go off around me. 314 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:07,440 I believe I was hitting the head, and I actually think I had 315 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,880 a concussion. I had lost my hearing from flashbanks, that the cops were 316 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,160 lobbing at the crowd, and I mean, there's no debt denying. Also, 317 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,000 there was so much a state of euphoria and from the adrenaline and all 318 00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:26,519 that, there were a lot of things going through my head and I'm potentially 319 00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:32,640 interfering with the congressional hearing was absolutely not part of it. There was never 320 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,599 one point where I was looking for anything in particular. If you watch the 321 00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:41,839 CCTV, for instance, and this applies to a lot of people, people 322 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,079 genuinely didn't know what to do. So when I enter the building, initially 323 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,359 I go to the right and I follow people down a hallway, and then 324 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,519 I turned to the left and follow different people down back to the original hallway 325 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,759 and down another hallway, and then I turned back right. I actually did 326 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:02,039 not know what to do, where I was, or what was even going 327 00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:06,640 on. And eventually, when I actually met the Capitol Police in the Capital 328 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,480 Visitor Center and they explained where I was and what the situation was, I 329 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,000 followed them out of the building. They escorted us back out to where we 330 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,240 initially came into. So, I mean, it's it might sound absurd, 331 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:23,400 but you know, two things can be true at the same time. I 332 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:30,599 can be I can be eloquent or well read about, say proceedings of the 333 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,200 state or what have you. And just due to not being a native of 334 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:40,119 the area and just not knowing the actual architecture and all that, just I 335 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,480 just generally didn't know what was going on. I was kind of lost. 336 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:47,119 And as I said, you know, I worked overnights. I was a 337 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,920 naval weapons contractor, and I'd actually gone several days without sleep. So it's 338 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,799 a miracle I actually made it there without getting into an accident. It's about 339 00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:59,880 a four hour trip from where you were, and top of days without sleep, 340 00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:03,599 also being I was also the union rep, so I was always working 341 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,680 even when I was off duty. So the only reason, frankly, the 342 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,759 only reason I even made it to DC in one piece was because I pounded 343 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,880 a bunch of Bang Energy drinks. So that's really what kept me going. 344 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,920 Well, the prosecutors and the press, of course, had you know, 345 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,559 they spent a lot of ink and a lot of energy trying to paint a 346 00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:26,960 picture here, and they did this of you, and I want to get 347 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,079 your reaction to this. This is from National Public Radio. By the way, 348 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,960 taxpayer funded National Public Radio, so you, the taxpayer, are paying 349 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:41,319 for the narrative that NPR is shaping, and that narrative is generally most always 350 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,000 the left wing narrative. But this is from the story. On the day 351 00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:52,759 that you were convicted, prosecutors portrayed Timothy Hale of New Jersey as an extremist 352 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:59,839 who hoped for a second Civil War. The government presented evidence of Hail using 353 00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:06,319 racist, anti Semitic, and anti gay slurs, yelling obscenities at officers protecting 354 00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:11,480 the capital, and later enthusiastically boasting about breaching the building to a roommate. 355 00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:18,680 As jurors heard at trial, that roommate was secretly wearing a recording device on 356 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:27,000 behalf of investigators with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service NCIS and the FBI. Tell 357 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:37,920 me about that descriptor does that fairly represent you? I'm going to say things 358 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,319 that never happened for five hundred Alex. No. So basically, they had 359 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:47,359 this narrative, and I will say this narrative about me was probably assembled piecemeal. 360 00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:52,519 Initially, I think they were going with the civil war stuff to try 361 00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:56,359 to portray me as sort of a Timothy McVeigh type character, and then gradually 362 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:02,759 I think they moved more towards the the you know, racial extremist or what 363 00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:07,200 have you. So No, basically, as I alluded to, I was 364 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,000 the union rep for the contractors that I worked with, and I had a 365 00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:15,640 very I had a not good relationship with the management there. So one of 366 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,799 the first things that happened when I got back from January sixth is I actually 367 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,960 went back to work that very night and you know whatever, but management actually 368 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,279 had tipped off the FEDS that I was there, and so NCIS, which 369 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:33,119 of course I was on a Navy base, so NCIS had my roommate where 370 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,240 a wire and it basically my roommate had tried to get me to say incriminating 371 00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:41,480 things to make me look as bad as possible while I was drinking. And 372 00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:45,160 so anybody who knows me knows I'm a bit of a smart guy. So 373 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:51,200 I say a lot of things. And so what ended up happening was they 374 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,000 took a lot of things they were on a recording completely out of context, 375 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,000 and they actually used that to deny me bail. Did they edit those records 376 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:04,759 to make it look worse than it once actually, yes, And one of 377 00:31:04,759 --> 00:31:10,720 the reasons. One of the ways they did this was actually just by not 378 00:31:10,759 --> 00:31:14,279 even providing the transcripts. So they chopped up the transcripts to make it look 379 00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:17,839 like I was planning a civil war. But the full recording show is that 380 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,960 I actually, instead of doubling down, I did the exact opposite. I 381 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,200 walked it completely back and say, yeah, no, I don't want that. 382 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:26,279 And it didn't matter, it didn't That didn't come out for months, 383 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,799 and so here I am telling my public defender, like, yo, you 384 00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:33,920 got to get the full thing, because I literally say the exact opposite. 385 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,680 It didn't matter. The Public Defender didn't didn't want to do anything on my 386 00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,480 behalf. The Public Defender's Office were actually working with the prosecution. They actually 387 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000 would bract that they were friends with them. This is why basically nobody had 388 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:52,039 nobody had a chance in DC with the Public Defender's office. And so yeah, 389 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:53,559 I mean I was completely like. Keep in mind my roommate of three 390 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,119 years who was a friend of mine, he was a Jamaican man. He's 391 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,920 black guy. So I mean, I don't know many. I don't know 392 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:07,000 many. I don't know any supremacists who cohabitate with with African Americans. And 393 00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:10,119 keep in mind, I was the union rep for the contractors I worked at. 394 00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:14,680 I had to be elected by them, and over half of them were 395 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:20,880 black, Asian, Hispanic, myself in Puerto Rican. None of none of 396 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,279 it made sense, but it didn't matter. At the end of the day. 397 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:25,000 They had their narrative. And it was bad enough I was going in 398 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,799 front of a DC jury, but they had to prejudice the jury even further 399 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,599 with the you know, with the far right nut job narrative. And keep 400 00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:37,079 in mind, also it didn't end with my roommate, as I alluded to 401 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:43,279 there were informants inside the DC jail and those NPR articles you just read, 402 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,960 Who do you think planted this? A lot of the you know, narratives 403 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,319 for that, they put informants in the jail to sabotage my case. I'd 404 00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:53,519 say actually about a third of the inmates I was with, I mean, 405 00:32:53,599 --> 00:33:00,200 we'll say roughly a third were actually sending supposed evidence to NPR sabotage my case. 406 00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:05,079 These articles largely came out before my trial, and they were even set 407 00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:09,599 They were even cited by my prosecutors at my sentencing hearing. So you actually 408 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,640 had one individual, Tom Sibbik, who tried to get me to endorse another 409 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,720 Oklahoma City bombing. I mentioned the McVeigh thing. They were actually trying to 410 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,839 go with that. They were trying to say I was inspired by him. 411 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,039 So, I mean, there's a lot that went on behind the scenes. 412 00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:28,039 But if you want to call it the DC gulog or what have you, 413 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:31,799 you need to recognize gulogs don't just work with oppressor and oppressed. There were 414 00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:37,079 always collaborators. And that was true too for the January sixth situation. There 415 00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:40,079 were a lot of people who were planted in there to sell us out, 416 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:46,000 and they did from the beginning, of course, with all the political overtones. 417 00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:54,079 Tim, you know, this wasn't described as the BLM protests were described 418 00:33:54,119 --> 00:33:59,759 in twenty twenty as a peaceful protest. Now, certainly there were moments and 419 00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:04,240 time times, and there were people involved that were indeed rioting at the Capitol 420 00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:08,840 on January sixth, twenty twenty one. But have you looked at the comparisons. 421 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:15,840 I'm sure you have thought about that over the last few years, looked 422 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:24,920 at how the Marxist Black Lives Matter protest riots, and you know, in 423 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,800 covering some of those events in places like Kenosha, Wisconsin, I can tell 424 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:40,079 you that it was more than a riot. Is it difficult to square how 425 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:45,039 those riots were covered versus what happened on January sixth, twenty twenty one, 426 00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:52,960 Well, mostly peaceful protests. You know, it's actually extremely important, I 427 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,239 think, not just for defendants. I think for the if you want to 428 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,039 call it the right or what have you, in arguing about this sort of 429 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:05,719 thing going forward. It's really important actually to mention that. But not for 430 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,840 the reason you might think. I remember, very often after January sixth, 431 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,119 you'd off a year on radio or TV or what have you. Is well, 432 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,159 yeah, J six was bad, but what about Antifa? What about 433 00:35:17,199 --> 00:35:22,159 BLM? What about Antifa? What about BLM? And that's true, But 434 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,400 here's the real issue is that the treatment. It's the treatment, the disparate 435 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,840 treatment is actually the issue at hand here. Yes, they're leftists and they're 436 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,559 radicals, and you know, they're violent monsters and all that. But you 437 00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:42,599 know, one of the arguments that I had to really pull together as a 438 00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:49,519 defendant was this issue of selective prosecution as well as well. Frankly, it 439 00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,239 goes back to the fourteenth Amendment. And so we typically think of the fourteenth 440 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,760 Amendment and equal protection and do process. It's really it's really just a civil 441 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,039 rights era extension of the Fifth Amendment to this states. But in reality, 442 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:06,320 there's a lot more to it that the common law system is kind of you 443 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,480 know, is really expanded, and so it's like you actually have protections for 444 00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:16,000 racial, religious, and indeed even political dissident status that were kind of thrown 445 00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:19,360 out the window. So if you go back to the yik Wo case, 446 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:25,360 you know you had Asians in say California that were being prosecuted for legitimate statute 447 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,400 with legitimate statutes, but they were being targeted because they were Asian, and 448 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,639 so there was a disparate treatment in that community versus other citizens. And so 449 00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:39,119 there are times when statutes are legitimate. Let's assume fifteen twelve was, and 450 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:43,000 it's not. Let's assume it was. To be as charitable as possible. 451 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,239 It is when the law is applied with quote an evil eye and an uneven 452 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:53,480 hand, that's when you have selective prosecution. That's when you have malicious prosecution. 453 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,480 That's when you have a violation of equal protection under the law. And 454 00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:06,519 so when Trump supporters are being hunted down and targeted as insurrectionists or terrorists, 455 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,199 it's a far cry from the way that Antifa, BLM and others have been 456 00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:15,519 treated. So here's an interesting observation. When we were in the DC jail, 457 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,360 there were riots going on in DC from environmental protesters and they were ramming 458 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:28,599 bike racks into police and I think they got tickets if that as you alluded 459 00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:31,880 to. There were BLM riots in Washington, DC actually before January sixth, 460 00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:37,960 the summer before, I believe. And so when you look at say Antifa 461 00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:45,239 burning the federal courthouses in the Portland riots you know, it's one thing to 462 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,639 say, well, just because someone does something bad doesn't mean you get to 463 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,400 get away with doing something bad as well. That's not really the argument. 464 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,519 The argument is that justice is supposed to be blind, and so the argument 465 00:37:54,559 --> 00:38:00,480 is supposed to be that it should be fairly. Justice should be distributed fairly, 466 00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:04,920 and so I think this is an argument that the right or what have 467 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,559 you, you should really examine. You know, there is a constitutional process 468 00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:14,280 here as well. There's a constitutional issue. It's not just the poor treatment 469 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,440 in the jail though that's bad. There are all sorts of constitutional violations in 470 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,920 this Yes, we had the Bill of Rights basically stripped from us, but 471 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,519 even further than the Bill of Rights is the Fourteenth Amendment. And so you're 472 00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:30,079 going to see basically the breakdown of not just due process, but also equal 473 00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:35,000 protection. I'm going to see the breakdown of civil rights in America, and 474 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,119 you're going to see a breakdown of our common laws system. What this prosecution 475 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:45,000 has done is demonstrate that people with power will no longer respect the fair treatment 476 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:50,599 of all American citizens. The law system, the lawfairs it's called, is 477 00:38:50,639 --> 00:38:53,960 being used to target political dissonance, and that's just as bad as if people 478 00:38:53,960 --> 00:39:00,440 were being targeted for ethnic or religious differences. That's what our systems says, 479 00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:04,239 and I think that's what people should really should really focus on. You're absolutely 480 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,840 right. There's been a very different way we've been treated, very differently than 481 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:15,039 even it doesn't have to be violence. Even code pink interrupted senatorial hearings. 482 00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:20,480 Sure interrupted confirmation hearings in the Senate buildings. So I mean, this is 483 00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:25,239 something Congressman Bowman, the firal alarm, that's the most maybe one of the 484 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,920 more egregious examples. But you're right. I mean, when you talk about 485 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,440 burning down government buildings in Portland, isn't that an insurrection? But you see 486 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:45,639 the difference was you had a again an accomplice media painting the very violent demonstrations 487 00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:51,280 that were going on with BLM, not as an insurrection, not as a 488 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,320 precursor to a civil war, but as righteous indignation. And as you told 489 00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,559 me before, and as you've discussed many different forms, there were a lot 490 00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:09,480 of people who were experiencing righteous indignation post November twenty twenty when they believe that 491 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,880 the election was stolen from them, so they were assembled to protest that they 492 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:22,320 weren't necessarily assembled to overthrow the government, but that is how it was painted. 493 00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:25,400 I just have a moment left. I want to ask you what's next 494 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:32,760 for Tim Hale, Because you know, you have spent the last four years 495 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,679 in this country, three plus years in this country basically living under the shadow 496 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:46,840 of a particular narrative. You spent a lot of time in prison for once 497 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,920 again, at least one of the crimes. According to the Supreme Court, 498 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,840 you should not have been convicted. Of what's next for you? Well, 499 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:01,719 you know, it's kind of a more of an observation, but I actually 500 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,880 got off lucky, I suppose, compared to a lot of my friends who 501 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,800 I'm inside the jail. And so I still have friends who are rotting in 502 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,400 prison, and they have sentences of five, six, eight, ten, 503 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:22,320 twelve, even fourteen years, and so I can't really forget about them. 504 00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:27,760 So, I mean, there are these smaller questions of how long it's going 505 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,440 to take for me to get off probation, how long is it going to 506 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,599 take to get resentenced over fifteen twelve. Yeah, these are minor details. 507 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,039 I think in the long run, my main mission is going to be advocating 508 00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:43,920 for the men who don't deserve to be rotting away, but who still are. 509 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,360 So, you know, my family founded Patriot Freedom Project, which is 510 00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:57,039 basically a charity that essentially it helps pay bills and support families of January sixth 511 00:41:57,039 --> 00:42:00,440 defendants, who of course most of them were the bread winners of the family 512 00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:07,519 and so or even helping with legal fees. So basically, I think that's 513 00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:12,519 going forward. I'm going to mainly work on helping the families and doing whatever 514 00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:15,840 I can to advocate for those people. You know, Donald Trump has even 515 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,880 endorsed Patriot Freedom Project. You can go to Patriotfreedomproject dot com if anybody wants 516 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,360 to help support the families. And I hate to be that guy. This 517 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,639 isn't chicken little. It's not going to get better because while the fifteen twelve 518 00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:35,519 being tossed is a good thing, the government's bragging that they're going to prosecute 519 00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:39,079 another thousand people before this election. They've already gotten fourteen hundred. So the 520 00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:45,280 need to help these families is not going to go away anytime soon. So 521 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:50,119 I guess my main mission right now is just talking about this, talking about 522 00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:52,880 all this, not just the fifteen twelve, talking about the solitary, talking 523 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,519 about the men who've been framed, talking about the people who set us up, 524 00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:01,800 talking about all this, and so I very much appreciate that you had 525 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:07,400 me on here. I very much appreciate you sitting down with me and being 526 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,880 willing to have this back and forth. It's very important because for the longest 527 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,000 time, for the longest time, Americans believed the narrative. For the longest 528 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,920 time, nobody cared about us as we languished behind bars, and for the 529 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,639 longest time, people didn't even know half of what they know today. And 530 00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:29,880 so it's extremely important that I and pretty much anyone who can continues to speak 531 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,480 out about this. So I thank you very much for having me on. 532 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:38,119 Those who are willing to help the families please do and please say prayers, 533 00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:43,639 not just for all the defendants and their families, please also say prayers for 534 00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:47,320 President Trump and pray for our country, because I don't know if it's ever 535 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,719 been this bad before. So thank you. Yeah, Well, I very 536 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,760 much appreciate your time. Your story is harrowing, and you know a lot 537 00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:00,079 of folks who have similar stories harrowing. The problem in this country right now, 538 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:07,239 where we are at in this country, is that a lot of Americans. 539 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,920 Maybe they weren't paying attention. They have lives of their own to lead, 540 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,159 Maybe they weren't all that interested. But they've suddenly awakened to the fact 541 00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:24,519 that Joe Biden is not the Joe Biden that the accomplice media has depicted for 542 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:30,320 the last several years. They're coming to terms with that. My hope is 543 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,280 that they're going to start questioning then all of the other stuff that has been 544 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,199 sold to them, packaged to them, and the whole J six experience is 545 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:46,280 top of that list. I very much appreciate those like yourself willing to fight 546 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:52,039 against the narrative. In one day, I do believe there will be the 547 00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:59,079 full truth coming out. Whether anyone will truly be held accountable, that truly 548 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:01,960 remains to be seen. Thanks to my guest today, Army Reserve veteran and 549 00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:07,679 J six prisoner Tim Hale, you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist 550 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,840 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be 551 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:31,039 back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the Fray