We are back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle,
Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's Quest for
Knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio at the Federalist
dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make sure to subscribe
wherever you download your podcast, and of course to the premium version of our
website as well. I'm joined today by Army Reserve veteran and J six prisoner
Tim Hale. He joins us to talk about his prison sentence and the Supreme
Court ruling that found Tim and hundreds of others just like him wrongly can victed
of obstruction charges in the wake of the January sixth, twenty twenty one riots
at the Capitol. Thank you for being here, sir. I do appreciate
your time and appreciate you joining us on the Federalist Radio Hour. Thank you
very much for having me. It's an honor to be with you. Let
me begin here with the writings from my Federalist colleague Tristan Justice, who wrote
the story after the Supreme Court ruling that came down last week. The Supreme
Court ruled that the Department of Justice used an inappropriately broad interpretation of federal statute
to prosecute a former police officer who was charged because of his involvement in the
Capital riot on January sixth, twenty twenty one. On Friday, the Justices
delivered the six' to three decision in Fisher v. United States, ruling
Joseph Fisher should not have been charged with obstruction of an official proceeding under the
two thousand and two Sarbines Oxley Act. The statute has been used by the
DOJ to charge more than three hundred defendants with felonies in the more than three
years since the riot, with the defendants facing a prison sentence of up to
twenty years. Tim Hale, you were one of those three hundred. Let
me get your initial thoughts on what was going through your mind when this ruling
came down. Vindication more than anything, you know. Not everybody was able
to fight their cases because they feared the punishment that would come from the trial
tax, as it's called, from going to trial to defend against the statute
against this charge. I actually went to trial. I didn't take a plea
deal. I didn't get the better end of the deal during that during that
trial. But I'm glad that I was one of the people who fell on
a sword fighting that case. I'm I'm very happy with the result of this
decision. It was the right decision, and this statute was applied inappropriately for
three years. I wish I didn't have to lose three years of my life,
but I'm glad it was for the right cause. I was going to
say, fell on the sword. Indeed, you were convicted on four charge
as the obstruction charge as well. I mean, that was the felony,
that was the big one, that was the one that could have sent you
to prison, as we noted for for twenty years. You served the time,
So I know it is vindication in your case, But how do you
feel about having served the time for that charge when the Supreme Court, in
a six' to three ruling says you shouldn't have been charged with that at
all. Well, I'm certainly not happy with it, but I'm more of
a stoic person than most, so I kind of to Grin and Barrett because
I knew I'd win in the long run. But you know, I just
kind of had to bear my cross there's no there's no scenario where I say
that I'm happy I lost three years of my life, but at the end
of the day, I'm happy with I'm happy with my dedication to you know,
fighting this case. This, this all would have been a lot better
or I'm sorry, this all would have been a lot differently if defendants weren't
charged with this in the first place. But you know, I'm not married,
I don't have kids, so I didn't have to make maybe as hard
a decision as some other defendants. But at a principle, I had to
fight my I had to fight my case, and I had to fight that
charge. If the dj had just given people misdemeanors or tickets like they normally
do with leftists, I don't even think this would have made it to the
Supreme Court. Yeah, this is clearly a case that I think a lot
of us have looked at those who have investigated these cases over the years.
There's the political stink all over that. I think that that goes without saying.
But I mean, you did some hard time as well, and what
I mean by that is correct me if I'm wrong, But didn't you have
to serve like others in kind of solitary confinement during the COVID years, you
had, you know, at points no contact with family, no contact at
one point. I know some didn't have contact with attorneys for a while,
that's correct, and I was one of those some. For all those I
was in the d C jail as it's called the d C Gulag or d
C GIMO. I was one of the first people in there, and I
was in there. I was one of the longest held there. I was
put there very early on as well. So as you noted, d C
is probably worse than any deep blue state when it came to the COVID restrictions,
and that was a trojan horse for them to strip us of all civil
rights. So we were denied due process, we were denied religious services,
denied access to our lawyers, denied access to our discovery, our evidence,
and yes, we couldn't see our families either. Yeah, that was a
tragedy in and of itself. The conditions in the jail improved after the first
year, but the first year, yes, was mostly solitary confinement twenty three
hours a day in our cell. There were moments where they decreased it to
twenty two hours but yeah, I mean, the whole thing was a trojan
horse. And you know, that's another reason we can't fall for these emergency
state power situations because after a while, frankly, DC stopped with the COVID
stuff, but the jail did not. The jail just kept doing it anyway.
So yes, it was definitely a hard time. You could even say
it was cruel and unusual punishment. You could even say it was tortured.
Now again, I'm a very stole a person, so I could kind of
I could resist it a lot better than some people, perhaps well Tim,
as we know from those who took another critical case before the Supreme Court this
year, homeless camping out at public places or not being allowed to do so,
that's cruel and unusual punishment according to the left. But these are very
strange times in which we live. Take me back to that day January sixth,
twenty twenty one, when a lot of stories written about Tim Hale in
particular, and you had argued at your trial, Hey, I had no
intention of thwarting an election I was part of you know, thousands and thousands
of people across the country very upset about you know, what happened during the
twenty twenty election. As I've read the stories, I believe you were of
the mind, like many of us, that there certainly were a lot of
shenanigans pulled under the cover of COVID, a lot of irregularities, and some
law is clearly broken. I've investigated that. But tell me what it was
like on that day and how does it differ than the depiction that we've seen
in corporate media. Well, certainly, and yes, I would say irregularities
is putting it lightly. The story of the insurrection is completely fraudulent, and
I'm sure, I mean everybody knows now years later, of course, but
Donald Trump never said to go to the capitol and riot. He said go
there to peacefully and patriotically protest. Right. Part of the reason I think
people like me were denied bonds so much was because I think a lot of
people had video on their person, and that would have discounted this narrative.
One of the things the first things I did after getting out of prison was
released a video from my phone showing that people were meandering from the Ellipse area
to the Capitol. There was no race to get there. This kind of
goes against the notion that people had this mindset, this men's area of obstruction.
But even further, you need to understand that there was a perimeter setup
that was barely guarded by Capitol Police, and this was breached by gentlemen including
Ray Epps FBI informant James Knowles, And this happened a half hour before people
like me showed up. There were almost like chicken wire fencing that had rollout
fencing that had signs that said no trespassing, restricted area, what have you.
And these were literally cut down, rolled up and moved. So thousands
of people poured into an area not realizing they weren't allowed to be there.
And so for an hour after that, people were still just kind of pouring
into the area and just chanting. Singing on my phone, We're singing God,
Bless America. We're chanting USA, We're chanting Christ as King. And
from my perspective, there's no indication at all that there's any violence happening.
What you end up happening, which you end up having, is that through
an ocean of people, there are some agitators in the crowd who are basically
going back and forth with the Capitol Police. For the most part, it
doesn't escalate too far. What actually ends up happening, though, is that
the Metro pds show up and they're extremely aggressive. They end up firing flash
bangrenades into the middle of the crowd. The crowd is incited, they lash
out at the cops. The cops return and so return fire, so to
speak, and so it just becomes this snowball effect. But the average person
there had no idea what was happening. The average person there was not violent.
The average person there actually thought that they were under attacked by the cap
by the police. And so there was this sense of righteous indignation from the
average person who was there when you know, the cops are bodies, slamming
old ladies and so like they're actually doing this with riot shields. They're slamming
into people, They're spraying people for no reason. And when an agitator does
get out of hand, and there were a few of them, let there
be no mistake about that, they don't necessarily deal with that individual. As
I say, they'll throw a flash bangrenade in the middle of a peaceful crowd
instead of dealing with the agitators. So a lot of this is heavily coordinated
if you watch the CCTV or the body cameras, you can clearly see that
there are actors in the crowd. There were well, for lack of a
better term, I'll use the term crisis actor, but there were there were
plain clothed individuals who blended into the crowd who were trying to hype people up
and get them into trouble. I met several of them inside the DC jail.
There were federal informants pretty much all over the place, and I'll I'll
say this further. Inside the Capitol Building, once people got away from the
excessive force on the outside, people inside the Capitol Building were very respectful of
the building. People inside the Capitol Building were walking through velvet ropes like it
was a tour of a museum. There were a couple of people who got
out of hand inside the building, but even those people are suspect most of
the day, and most of the people were not out of hand at all.
It was absolutely not an insurrection. And it's a complete disservice to the
country that the corporate media as you call it, has basically been replaying the
same thirty second clips for three years. And this is why there's so much
resistance to releasing the CCTV in all the thousands of hours of video. Not
only would it help defendants build their case that they were entrapped, or that
they were engaging in self defense, or that they just didn't even do what
they're accused of, it would also pull the veil over the eyes of the
American public. So there's a lot that's there's a lot that's been withheld,
there's a there's a lot that's been misrepresented, and it's been used for basically
a political inquisition. I agree. I think that's very important. I want
to I want to get back to that momentarily. But as you noted,
there's no doubt that there were some some people in that crowd, and it
may be a small percentage, but you know, uh they were they were
breaking stuff up. They were certainly committing crimes outside of the you know,
the the if you will excuse the turn of raise the trumped up Sarbines Oxley.
You know, the use by this U Attorney General in the Department of
Justice trying to manipulate these these sort of charges to to you know, execute
the maximum damage that they possibly could for their narrative. But did you see
as you were in there. Some of the vandalism that indeed was occurring,
and you know, some of the aggression that we have seen in those clips,
and those are some damning clips. No, in fact, like most
of that, I would say most of the aggression in terms of violence or
anything like that, I'd say that was limited to predominantly on the Western Terrace
and especially in an area you would call the lower West Terrace Tunnel. And
there's an element to that area I think was kind of a sort of a
trap or a photo op. A lot of that. Of course, you
know, I'm sure you've heard the story of Roseanne Boiland. There are a
lot of people who were effectively trying to, you know, defend people that
they saw being injured or who they thought were under attack. But as I
said, inside the building, in terms of vandalism, the closest thing I
saw to vandalism inside the building was people had put like Trump flags. I'm
sorry, do you have Trump flags in the hands of statues? Or they
put like a ma I had on a statue I actually I actually was looking
at. I mean, that's basically what I spent most of my time doing
inside the Capital, inside an area called the Crypt is. The crypt is
a circular, circular room, a large room with a bunch of statues.
So people were just posing with statues and taking pictures. It was kind of
like dorky. Actually it was not in any way. It was not in
any way as egregious as the media would like to portray. As matter of
fact, there were people picking up garbage. Actually, the Capitol Police had
left a bunch of trash in crypt Lobby East, and then it was actually
protesters when they came in the area. You can actually watch on the CCTV
as they collect the trash and put it in garbage bags. You know,
not everybody, not everybody disrespected the so called Temple of Democracy. Quite the
contrary. People were in awe, you know. And I could save myself
as well, seeing the statues, the architecture. It was the people's house,
and I think people more or less treated as such. I think I
think it was a very complex day and there were a lot of moving pieces.
So I would say not every not every civilian, not everybody in the
crowds was a good person. Not every person in the crowds was a bad
one. Not every officer that day was a monster, but not every officer
that day was doing their job appropriately, and so I think it's a very
complicated day, and I think that's why they go for the simple narratives.
Could people tend to latch onto simple narratives. But I do think that if
you examine it holistically, then you come away seeing that this was really not
at all what it was portrayed as. Government intervention has ruined yet another industry.
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or wherever you get your podcast. Well, and there is this point,
if it is what they say it is, that is the Biden administration.
Democrats in this country campaigning on J six, the J six Committee, which
now of course, as we learn more and more just how politically driven this.
You know, this sham of an investigative committee was led by liberal politicians
in Washington, d see, with a clear motive involved here. But if
they didn't have anything to hide, a they would release all of the footage,
they would not have destroyed evidence. And yet nobody in like I said,
the accomplice or corporate media, seems to be all that concerned about it.
When you have testified in court, when you are saying to us now
and you've said repeatedly as much as you could over the last several years,
Hey, what they're telling you happened did not happen. In fact, full
video will show you that. Why do you think we have all of these
government officials, particularly the Department of Justice, opting to keep this information from
the public. So this is a doozy So bear with me here mentioning starving
Zac. You know, the original statute for fifteen twelve, of course,
was just you know, tampering with a witness, and it went back to
the eighties. But you know that substatute of fifteen twelve we'd all been charged
with. You know, that was added in two thousand and three after the
Enron scandal. And what's very interesting is that the first judge to uphold fifteen
twelve for j six defendants was was Dabney Friedrich, and her husband was actually
on the Enron Task Force. So there's a conflict of interest there that I
don't feel was ever fully investigated appropriately as to why she didn't recuse herself or
what have you. But further than that, and this is you know,
take this as anecdotal evidence, but I do have the signatures of my fellow
inmates from the jail on this matter. The first defendants to have fifteen twelve
upheld were federal informants. So Nathan de Grave, Ronald Sandlin, and Josiah
Colt, three co defendants, were there actually to get out of trouble with
the Feds. For instance, one of them, to Grave, had actually
been caught in a drug conspiracy in twenty twenty, and his co defendant,
Sandlin, had admitted as much. So it's a little suspicious that the first
defendants that have fifteen twelve upheld were federal informants, and then you have the
connection to their judge, to the task force itself. There seems like there's
a lot that could easily point to this being basically coordinated specifically not just for
you know, January sixth offendance, but really a long game for them to
go after President Trump. So they could not only get away with January sixth
and you know, sabotaging his supporters there and sabotaging the claims against the election
being rigged in twenty twenty, but also as a long term plan to sabotage
any attempt to run in twenty twenty four. So I do think this is
ultimately a narrative that's meant to sabotage the political aspirations of an extremely popular political
figure. But I also think in the long run, this is just you
know, as you've alluded to, this charge is really a way to it
was really a way to basically pull plea deals and confessions out of defendants because
they feared, as you said, a twenty year sentence. Now, a
few people have actually gotten that twenty year sentence, but a lot of people
have had sentences that were excessive, exorbitant compared to what they ought to have
had. Like in my instance, I got was I got over twice my
sentence in guidelines with a four year sentence when I was calculated it only twenty
one months. The fifteen twelve charge has been used, along with a grab
bag of misdemeanors and other nonsense, as well as enhancements and terrorism enhancements and
all that. It's really just been a you It's been a way to target
Trump supporters, and I think part of it is really just to scare people,
not just from January sixth, but in general. I think it's a
way to scare Middle America and to keep them from ever taking a stand on
pretty much anything. I think it's a way to pacify the public and to
normalize election fraud and to normalize basically the submission of the people like myself who
were in the military or in the case of Fisher, a police officer.
I think it's a way to pacify the people who actually make the country function,
to just make them go along with the machinations of the power structure without
standing with the people they swear an oath to, which is not the people
in power, but actually the public. So I think there's a lot they've
invested in this. I think the reason they're still doing it even though nobody
even believes this anymore. The insurrection narrative. I think they're still going with
it because it's pretty much all they have. I think they put all their
eggs in one basket. You could say they're going to run on abortion or
what have you like, Okay, maybe, but I think the insurrection narrative
or Trump supporters are anti democracy broadly. I think it's all they have.
So I think that's pretty much it. I think there's a lot. I
think there's a lot of truth to that, especially after the recent debate,
the debacle of Joe Biden and the nation and the world for the first time,
millions of people seeing the deterioration mentally, cognitively, physically of the president
of the United States, the president of the United States. Yes, exactly.
So I think that. And it's interesting because you look at the decision,
the six to three decision, you will see justices who say that the
use of Sarbanes Oxley, and that's what it's really all about, is that
that was an injustice for anybody who values the rule of law in this country.
That's the Department of Justice, federal prosecutors going way too far as they
did throughout this entire case, this entire investigation in pursuit of naked political you
know, narratives out there, and you know these are the people who claim
to be the defenders of democracy. It doesn't square when you take a look
at the full body of evidence. We are talking to Tim Hale, Army
Reserve veteran J six prisoner, on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour.
Tim, you are well spoken, You're a bright guy. So this is
what I do not understand. When you testified, you said, and I
can understand this, that you were not there for an insurrection. You were
not there for any of the sort of things that you know. It's been
painted by the Department of Justice, by federal prosecutors, and by the corporate
media that said you didn't know according to testimony, that you know Congress was
where the official business was taking place. I have a difficult time believing that
is, I mean, how could that be. Well, just to clarify,
I never said I didn't know Congress was debating the issue. What I
actually was arguing was that I literally did not know what building I was in.
I was not familiar with d C and I largely followed the crowd that
was in front of me. So actually I just genuinely did not actually know
where I was walking to, and so that that, yeah, I understand,
but that's interesting to me. But you have you have you have in
the course of this conversation. I mean you have you have described in great
detail the building that you didn't know you were in, right, and that
that is of course retroactive. Keep in mind, I was following the crowd
all the way from the ellipse, and I had actually gone several days without
sleep. I had been sprayed, I had had flashbanks go off around me.
I believe I was hitting the head, and I actually think I had
a concussion. I had lost my hearing from flashbanks, that the cops were
lobbing at the crowd, and I mean, there's no debt denying. Also,
there was so much a state of euphoria and from the adrenaline and all
that, there were a lot of things going through my head and I'm potentially
interfering with the congressional hearing was absolutely not part of it. There was never
one point where I was looking for anything in particular. If you watch the
CCTV, for instance, and this applies to a lot of people, people
genuinely didn't know what to do. So when I enter the building, initially
I go to the right and I follow people down a hallway, and then
I turned to the left and follow different people down back to the original hallway
and down another hallway, and then I turned back right. I actually did
not know what to do, where I was, or what was even going
on. And eventually, when I actually met the Capitol Police in the Capital
Visitor Center and they explained where I was and what the situation was, I
followed them out of the building. They escorted us back out to where we
initially came into. So, I mean, it's it might sound absurd,
but you know, two things can be true at the same time. I
can be I can be eloquent or well read about, say proceedings of the
state or what have you. And just due to not being a native of
the area and just not knowing the actual architecture and all that, just I
just generally didn't know what was going on. I was kind of lost.
And as I said, you know, I worked overnights. I was a
naval weapons contractor, and I'd actually gone several days without sleep. So it's
a miracle I actually made it there without getting into an accident. It's about
a four hour trip from where you were, and top of days without sleep,
also being I was also the union rep, so I was always working
even when I was off duty. So the only reason, frankly, the
only reason I even made it to DC in one piece was because I pounded
a bunch of Bang Energy drinks. So that's really what kept me going.
Well, the prosecutors and the press, of course, had you know,
they spent a lot of ink and a lot of energy trying to paint a
picture here, and they did this of you, and I want to get
your reaction to this. This is from National Public Radio. By the way,
taxpayer funded National Public Radio, so you, the taxpayer, are paying
for the narrative that NPR is shaping, and that narrative is generally most always
the left wing narrative. But this is from the story. On the day
that you were convicted, prosecutors portrayed Timothy Hale of New Jersey as an extremist
who hoped for a second Civil War. The government presented evidence of Hail using
racist, anti Semitic, and anti gay slurs, yelling obscenities at officers protecting
the capital, and later enthusiastically boasting about breaching the building to a roommate.
As jurors heard at trial, that roommate was secretly wearing a recording device on
behalf of investigators with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service NCIS and the FBI. Tell
me about that descriptor does that fairly represent you? I'm going to say things
that never happened for five hundred Alex. No. So basically, they had
this narrative, and I will say this narrative about me was probably assembled piecemeal.
Initially, I think they were going with the civil war stuff to try
to portray me as sort of a Timothy McVeigh type character, and then gradually
I think they moved more towards the the you know, racial extremist or what
have you. So No, basically, as I alluded to, I was
the union rep for the contractors that I worked with, and I had a
very I had a not good relationship with the management there. So one of
the first things that happened when I got back from January sixth is I actually
went back to work that very night and you know whatever, but management actually
had tipped off the FEDS that I was there, and so NCIS, which
of course I was on a Navy base, so NCIS had my roommate where
a wire and it basically my roommate had tried to get me to say incriminating
things to make me look as bad as possible while I was drinking. And
so anybody who knows me knows I'm a bit of a smart guy. So
I say a lot of things. And so what ended up happening was they
took a lot of things they were on a recording completely out of context,
and they actually used that to deny me bail. Did they edit those records
to make it look worse than it once actually, yes, And one of
the reasons. One of the ways they did this was actually just by not
even providing the transcripts. So they chopped up the transcripts to make it look
like I was planning a civil war. But the full recording show is that
I actually, instead of doubling down, I did the exact opposite. I
walked it completely back and say, yeah, no, I don't want that.
And it didn't matter, it didn't That didn't come out for months,
and so here I am telling my public defender, like, yo, you
got to get the full thing, because I literally say the exact opposite.
It didn't matter. The Public Defender didn't didn't want to do anything on my
behalf. The Public Defender's Office were actually working with the prosecution. They actually
would bract that they were friends with them. This is why basically nobody had
nobody had a chance in DC with the Public Defender's office. And so yeah,
I mean I was completely like. Keep in mind my roommate of three
years who was a friend of mine, he was a Jamaican man. He's
black guy. So I mean, I don't know many. I don't know
many. I don't know any supremacists who cohabitate with with African Americans. And
keep in mind, I was the union rep for the contractors I worked at.
I had to be elected by them, and over half of them were
black, Asian, Hispanic, myself in Puerto Rican. None of none of
it made sense, but it didn't matter. At the end of the day.
They had their narrative. And it was bad enough I was going in
front of a DC jury, but they had to prejudice the jury even further
with the you know, with the far right nut job narrative. And keep
in mind, also it didn't end with my roommate, as I alluded to
there were informants inside the DC jail and those NPR articles you just read,
Who do you think planted this? A lot of the you know, narratives
for that, they put informants in the jail to sabotage my case. I'd
say actually about a third of the inmates I was with, I mean,
we'll say roughly a third were actually sending supposed evidence to NPR sabotage my case.
These articles largely came out before my trial, and they were even set
They were even cited by my prosecutors at my sentencing hearing. So you actually
had one individual, Tom Sibbik, who tried to get me to endorse another
Oklahoma City bombing. I mentioned the McVeigh thing. They were actually trying to
go with that. They were trying to say I was inspired by him.
So, I mean, there's a lot that went on behind the scenes.
But if you want to call it the DC gulog or what have you,
you need to recognize gulogs don't just work with oppressor and oppressed. There were
always collaborators. And that was true too for the January sixth situation. There
were a lot of people who were planted in there to sell us out,
and they did from the beginning, of course, with all the political overtones.
Tim, you know, this wasn't described as the BLM protests were described
in twenty twenty as a peaceful protest. Now, certainly there were moments and
time times, and there were people involved that were indeed rioting at the Capitol
on January sixth, twenty twenty one. But have you looked at the comparisons.
I'm sure you have thought about that over the last few years, looked
at how the Marxist Black Lives Matter protest riots, and you know, in
covering some of those events in places like Kenosha, Wisconsin, I can tell
you that it was more than a riot. Is it difficult to square how
those riots were covered versus what happened on January sixth, twenty twenty one,
Well, mostly peaceful protests. You know, it's actually extremely important, I
think, not just for defendants. I think for the if you want to
call it the right or what have you, in arguing about this sort of
thing going forward. It's really important actually to mention that. But not for
the reason you might think. I remember, very often after January sixth,
you'd off a year on radio or TV or what have you. Is well,
yeah, J six was bad, but what about Antifa? What about
BLM? What about Antifa? What about BLM? And that's true, But
here's the real issue is that the treatment. It's the treatment, the disparate
treatment is actually the issue at hand here. Yes, they're leftists and they're
radicals, and you know, they're violent monsters and all that. But you
know, one of the arguments that I had to really pull together as a
defendant was this issue of selective prosecution as well as well. Frankly, it
goes back to the fourteenth Amendment. And so we typically think of the fourteenth
Amendment and equal protection and do process. It's really it's really just a civil
rights era extension of the Fifth Amendment to this states. But in reality,
there's a lot more to it that the common law system is kind of you
know, is really expanded, and so it's like you actually have protections for
racial, religious, and indeed even political dissident status that were kind of thrown
out the window. So if you go back to the yik Wo case,
you know you had Asians in say California that were being prosecuted for legitimate statute
with legitimate statutes, but they were being targeted because they were Asian, and
so there was a disparate treatment in that community versus other citizens. And so
there are times when statutes are legitimate. Let's assume fifteen twelve was, and
it's not. Let's assume it was. To be as charitable as possible.
It is when the law is applied with quote an evil eye and an uneven
hand, that's when you have selective prosecution. That's when you have malicious prosecution.
That's when you have a violation of equal protection under the law. And
so when Trump supporters are being hunted down and targeted as insurrectionists or terrorists,
it's a far cry from the way that Antifa, BLM and others have been
treated. So here's an interesting observation. When we were in the DC jail,
there were riots going on in DC from environmental protesters and they were ramming
bike racks into police and I think they got tickets if that as you alluded
to. There were BLM riots in Washington, DC actually before January sixth,
the summer before, I believe. And so when you look at say Antifa
burning the federal courthouses in the Portland riots you know, it's one thing to
say, well, just because someone does something bad doesn't mean you get to
get away with doing something bad as well. That's not really the argument.
The argument is that justice is supposed to be blind, and so the argument
is supposed to be that it should be fairly. Justice should be distributed fairly,
and so I think this is an argument that the right or what have
you, you should really examine. You know, there is a constitutional process
here as well. There's a constitutional issue. It's not just the poor treatment
in the jail though that's bad. There are all sorts of constitutional violations in
this Yes, we had the Bill of Rights basically stripped from us, but
even further than the Bill of Rights is the Fourteenth Amendment. And so you're
going to see basically the breakdown of not just due process, but also equal
protection. I'm going to see the breakdown of civil rights in America, and
you're going to see a breakdown of our common laws system. What this prosecution
has done is demonstrate that people with power will no longer respect the fair treatment
of all American citizens. The law system, the lawfairs it's called, is
being used to target political dissonance, and that's just as bad as if people
were being targeted for ethnic or religious differences. That's what our systems says,
and I think that's what people should really should really focus on. You're absolutely
right. There's been a very different way we've been treated, very differently than
even it doesn't have to be violence. Even code pink interrupted senatorial hearings.
Sure interrupted confirmation hearings in the Senate buildings. So I mean, this is
something Congressman Bowman, the firal alarm, that's the most maybe one of the
more egregious examples. But you're right. I mean, when you talk about
burning down government buildings in Portland, isn't that an insurrection? But you see
the difference was you had a again an accomplice media painting the very violent demonstrations
that were going on with BLM, not as an insurrection, not as a
precursor to a civil war, but as righteous indignation. And as you told
me before, and as you've discussed many different forms, there were a lot
of people who were experiencing righteous indignation post November twenty twenty when they believe that
the election was stolen from them, so they were assembled to protest that they
weren't necessarily assembled to overthrow the government, but that is how it was painted.
I just have a moment left. I want to ask you what's next
for Tim Hale, Because you know, you have spent the last four years
in this country, three plus years in this country basically living under the shadow
of a particular narrative. You spent a lot of time in prison for once
again, at least one of the crimes. According to the Supreme Court,
you should not have been convicted. Of what's next for you? Well,
you know, it's kind of a more of an observation, but I actually
got off lucky, I suppose, compared to a lot of my friends who
I'm inside the jail. And so I still have friends who are rotting in
prison, and they have sentences of five, six, eight, ten,
twelve, even fourteen years, and so I can't really forget about them.
So, I mean, there are these smaller questions of how long it's going
to take for me to get off probation, how long is it going to
take to get resentenced over fifteen twelve. Yeah, these are minor details.
I think in the long run, my main mission is going to be advocating
for the men who don't deserve to be rotting away, but who still are.
So, you know, my family founded Patriot Freedom Project, which is
basically a charity that essentially it helps pay bills and support families of January sixth
defendants, who of course most of them were the bread winners of the family
and so or even helping with legal fees. So basically, I think that's
going forward. I'm going to mainly work on helping the families and doing whatever
I can to advocate for those people. You know, Donald Trump has even
endorsed Patriot Freedom Project. You can go to Patriotfreedomproject dot com if anybody wants
to help support the families. And I hate to be that guy. This
isn't chicken little. It's not going to get better because while the fifteen twelve
being tossed is a good thing, the government's bragging that they're going to prosecute
another thousand people before this election. They've already gotten fourteen hundred. So the
need to help these families is not going to go away anytime soon. So
I guess my main mission right now is just talking about this, talking about
all this, not just the fifteen twelve, talking about the solitary, talking
about the men who've been framed, talking about the people who set us up,
talking about all this, and so I very much appreciate that you had
me on here. I very much appreciate you sitting down with me and being
willing to have this back and forth. It's very important because for the longest
time, for the longest time, Americans believed the narrative. For the longest
time, nobody cared about us as we languished behind bars, and for the
longest time, people didn't even know half of what they know today. And
so it's extremely important that I and pretty much anyone who can continues to speak
out about this. So I thank you very much for having me on.
Those who are willing to help the families please do and please say prayers,
not just for all the defendants and their families, please also say prayers for
President Trump and pray for our country, because I don't know if it's ever
been this bad before. So thank you. Yeah, Well, I very
much appreciate your time. Your story is harrowing, and you know a lot
of folks who have similar stories harrowing. The problem in this country right now,
where we are at in this country, is that a lot of Americans.
Maybe they weren't paying attention. They have lives of their own to lead,
Maybe they weren't all that interested. But they've suddenly awakened to the fact
that Joe Biden is not the Joe Biden that the accomplice media has depicted for
the last several years. They're coming to terms with that. My hope is
that they're going to start questioning then all of the other stuff that has been
sold to them, packaged to them, and the whole J six experience is
top of that list. I very much appreciate those like yourself willing to fight
against the narrative. In one day, I do believe there will be the
full truth coming out. Whether anyone will truly be held accountable, that truly
remains to be seen. Thanks to my guest today, Army Reserve veteran and
J six prisoner Tim Hale, you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be
back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the Fray