WEBVTT

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The naming friendship has been over thirty
six hours now since federal agents first confronted

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a heavily armed religious cult near Waco. They were met by a hail of

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gunfire, killing four of the agents
and wounding over a dozen others. Tonight,

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additional agents have arrived on that scene, many of them in combat gear.

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And then tonight after seven pm,
authorities and forced a total blackout on

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all the lights. A short time
later, we were told that the FBI

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command post was moving about a half
mile away from the cult compound. Then

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came a long line of cars and
minivans, all carrying dozens of well armed

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men, and as soon as those
men came into the compound, authorities came

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out and ordered all of the media
away or The leader of this branch Davidians

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called cult called himself David Koresh,
who took control of the group in the

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late nineteen eighties. Members believe in
the imminent end of the world and the

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second coming of Christ. When Koresh
took over, the group became his own

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personal cult has shown in an Australian
team the interview last year Are you tering

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me? They think? How must
not a gone? Do They? Yeah?

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Pault actually called or known as the
Branch Davidians, is an offshoot of

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the Seventh day Adventist Church. They
broke off from the church and moved out

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here from Los Angeles back in nineteen
thirty five. Flames may be out,

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but a firestorm of controversy rages on. After the assault on the Branch Davidian

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compound. Officials are starting to look
for answers after Doomsday in Waco. This

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morning, investigators began sifting through the
embers of the Waco compounds, searching for

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the bodies of more than eighty cult
members believed killed in the fire. Through

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the blistering Texas Son, investigators comb
the smoldering remains of the Branch Davidian Compound.

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More than eighty people are believed to
have died and yesterday's fiery conclusion to

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the fifty one day siege, twenty
four of them children. Today, the

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FBI said it's not responsible for the
deaths. Those children are dead because David

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Koresh had them killed. There's no
question about that. He had those fires

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started, he had fifty one days
to release those children. He chose those

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children to die. We didn't have
anything to do with their deaths. The

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FBI said cult members didn't panic as
tanks began to ram the compound, yet

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calmly, apparently under orders from Koresh, began to gather in an underground bunker

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and dawned gas masks. Only nine
people were rescued from the flames. As

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to why the FBI lost its patience
after weeks of waiting, law enforcement officials

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revealed today that they had electronic listening
devices inside the compound. Their eavesdropping led

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them to believe Koresh was becoming more
violent and that intervention was necessary. This

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afternoon, five of the survivors were
arraigned in court on charges stemming from the

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siege. Investigators hope they'll be able
to provide some clues about life and death

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inside David Koresh's compound. It's my
impression that from what I understand, that

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it was to the government's advantage at
the compound either be demolished or troy or

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burn because the physical evidence that might
have some opportunity of disputing their contentions is

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now destroyed. This is a very
sad time and light of this terrible tragedy,

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Attorney General Janet Reno told the President
she wanted to teargast the building in

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order to save children she thought were
being abused and molested. She said,

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experts there thought there was a possibility
of mass suicide regardless of whether they moved

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in, But now the government will
question if they could have waited longer.

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I'm concerned about the hostage rescue team. I'm told they were fatigued. That

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opens up a lot of questions as
to why replacements weren't available. It's easy

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to understand that Waco was a talent
in shock. Like all of us,

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the people there watched in horror at
the tragic events at the Branch Davidian Compound

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unfolded Waco survivor David Tipidero, Welcome
to the show. It's an honor and

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a privilege to have you on,
sir. How are you doing. I'm

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very good. Thanks for having me
here today. Appreciate it. Yeah,

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I wanted to get you on earlier, but I'm glad the planet's all aligned

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and everything was taking care of wellen. Get you on here today, and

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I really appreciate it. The thirtieth
anniversary of the tragedy at Waco was last

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month, on April nineteenth, and
I wanted to come down for that in

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person, but I had so much
going on that week that I wasn't able

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to make it. But I've had
a lot of time to research this event

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and read your book, which is
fantastic, by the way, and I

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also watched WACO Rules of Engagement and
a bunch of different interviews, and I've

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really done my best to really wrap
my head around this event and really try

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to figure out what really happened.
And I have to say, this event

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is one of the most convoluted events
that I've researched thus far. And there's

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so much obstruction by the media,
lies by the ATF and the FBI.

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Bold face lies too, right,
just bold face lies straight to your face.

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It's right up there with the jfk
assassination. I really feel like so

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many things happening, But reading through
your book, I have so many questions

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for you. So where I really
want to start today, it's because you're

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a musician. So as a musician, you're a drummer, and that's always

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been your passion, you know from
reading your book, is music and playing

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the drums. So with that in
mind, do you think that life imitates

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art or art imitates life? I
think there's some things that happen in life

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that defy a writer's room. You
know, there's some pretty amazing writing out

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there. There's some incredible shows,
and you know, you never know what's

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going to happen next year. Think
a character gets in a situation that he

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can't pause, get out to get
out of, and then a creative writer,

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you know, gets him out of
it, and you're like, well,

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I never would have thought of that, that kind of thing. It's

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great writing, but there's sometimes in
life where the reality is just so far

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beyond anything that you think you could
have constructed in your own mind, you

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know. And that absolutely was Wago
And you know, see there's this dimension

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it's missing in wago Um. It's
it's purposely missing on my part. And

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I know there's not many other people
that can really tackle the subject. And

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that's that's the Scripture. Everybody against
that David who was teaching something out of

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the Bible that made sense to a
lot of people, some people that have

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been studying Scripture their entire lives and
becomes you know, cross and he's teaching

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these seven seals. I know people
talk about a lot, but listen,

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it's hard to overestimate the importance of
the scripture when it comes to what happened

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at WAKEO. Most people keep it
political, you know, even even people

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that I find to be kind of
libertarian bent or really understand the Constitution.

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She didn't really realize the violations that
have taken place at Waco. Um don't

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want to look at the scriptural aspects. And I think they walk away,

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even, you know, especially very
intelligent people, they walk away thinking,

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well, maybe the people there they're
just a little bit dooped, you know,

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just they just had the wool pull
over their eyes. That crush was

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a con man, as the FBI
said over and over, good David was

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a con man. Well, you
know, David was a lot of things,

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and you know, he made some
terrible decisions that led to a lot

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of problems for a lot of people. Um, he put a lot of

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people in danger. Um he's historically
coming off is not one of the better

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people that have ever existed. And
I understand that, but there was still

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a depth there that people just don't
at all want to focus on her,

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think about or talk about even And
there's like a very very few And I

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bring this up because the ferocity of
what the government did. I believe was

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spiritually motivated. I believe so too, And we're gonna get into that.

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What do you But first off,
what do you think was the biggest lie?

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And I know that there was a
lot of them that was told about

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Mount Carmel during the siege of March
of nineteen ninety three, by the media

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or by the ATF or the FBI. I thought you were going in a

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different way there, So first let
me answer the question I thought you were

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gonna ask, And what do I
think that was the biggest lie that they

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told them? Why? And then
I'll tell you to your question. But

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but to me, the helicopters shooting
at the building, it's something that they

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have all denied, all of the
agents on the ground and the agents and

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the helicopters for years they said,
but the helicopters did not fire into the

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building. And then at trial we
had one of the defense attorneys was like,

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how are you saying that you know
none of the helicopters fired in at

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the building. And the guy in
the stand said, the ATF guys want

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the head guys said, yeah,
there were no mounted guns on those helicopters.

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Well, that wasn't the question.
The question was that the helicopters or

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people that were on the helicopters shoot
into the building. And then he said

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he simply asked did the agents that
were on the helicopters were they armed?

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And he had to answer you yes, So the agents on those helicopters were

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armed. Many eyewitnesses on the ground
saw the helicopters firing or saw shots from

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the helicopters headed towards building. People
on the inside, including myself, including

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Dick de Gyarn and Jack Zimmerman,
two attorneys that came in during the siege,

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that the helicopters the evidence of bullet
holes in the roof coming from the

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outside in anyway. That this is
important because constitutionally, we're not supposed to

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use military equipment against American citizens now
under the Positive Commitatis Act, because of

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the Warren Drugs back in the eighties, had a caveat that basically stated if

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you could use military equip equipment against
American citizens as long as you could prove

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there was a drug nexus or a
drug connection. And so the and TF

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very blatantly lied about there being meth
amphetamines being produced at Mount Carmel under David

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Kresher, there were absolutely no drugs
there. He was never even accused of

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that. He actually turned in evidence
of a method back in eighty five when

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he went out there and they had
the gun battle with him and George Road,

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and that was the whole thing.
And so they knew, they knew

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very well there was not even any
suspicion of a drag nexus at a Mount

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Carmel, but they lied and put
that in so they could get the heliciper.

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So that alone, the whole premise
for the raid is based on an

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immaculate lie. And I think if
ever put under scrutiny, in other words,

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if we're ever on the line,
were people that were responsible for this

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raid had a congressional hearing or were
in danger of going to jail for their

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actions, and then I think the
American public would find out some very frightening

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things about what happened behind the scenes
and how they even got a warrant go

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and get David Christ and they think
they would they would see that it was

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very unlawful. I agree. But
then unfortunately they turned after week or they

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turned all of their attention to outside
terrorism. Wasn't domestic terrorism anymore. They

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started looking at foreign terrorism and then
nine to eleven happened, and then it

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just kind of brushed I think everything
under the rug from what happened with Waco,

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from what I'm really putting together.
So there were also in ninety five

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though you had you had Timothy McVay, which you know at first they said

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it was um foreign terrorism, but
then you know they finally hadn't met this

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is this is a white boy from
Wisconsin? Was he? From the point

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is that it was domestic terrorism?
So you know, after after ninety five,

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two years after after Waco, there
was no denying um that resources needed

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to be allotted to um, you
know, enemies domestic as well as foreign.

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Yeah, it's really interesting the events
that were all leading up in the

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nineties all the way to nine to
eleven. But there was a diversity of

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people at Mount Carmel, right,
because I think this is a misconception that

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really needs to be cleared up to. From my understanding, there was Americans,

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Hawaiians, Britain's, Australians, u
Spanish people, people from New Zealand,

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the Philippines, Canada. How did
Mount Carmel attracts such a diverse group

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of people there? Um, Koresh
went all over the place, you know,

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to talk to people who went to
Israel a couple of a few times.

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I think in his lifetime he had
people in places like when he when

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he met when he went to Hawaii, and he hat like Paul Fadis,

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Sherry Jewel and Steve Schneider. You
know Snee Schneider, you knew a lot

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of people. He taught comparative religions
at the University of Hawaii. You know,

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Steve was quite brilliant, and so
through through Steve alone, he got

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quite a few converts, quite a
few people that were interested in the message

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that they believed David was teaching.
He also went to England, you know,

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um, he had people. A
lot of it came from I think

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why but when he went to England
too. He would go and speak to

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people at seminary school specifically Seventh Day
at Venice seminary schools. Because that's the

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foundation of Waco and all starting the
fifties, the guy Victor Haddif who came

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from California by a bunch of land
in Waco and kind of built that community.

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He was branching off from the Seventh
Day Adventish Church hence the term branch

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Davidians. So you know, those
were these are all important factors. But

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by the time Koresh came into power, being the Seventh Angels Messenger, he

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was going all over and he was
going to these schools and he was talking

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to some of the students there,
and you know, I met several different

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families and several different people that were
going to these universities, from from the

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Henrys to Livingston Fagan, Livingston Malcolm
to living Stone Malcolm, I should say,

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sorry, Winston Blake. A lot
of the individuals that I that I

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was meeting, Ulrick Bennett basically all
of the same story. They were studying,

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spending thousands of dollars at seminary school. This young guy, David Koresh

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comes up and they learned more from
him from a day or two of studies,

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and they had their years studying from
their professors and basically left their school

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and came to study and learn from
David directly to Texas. That happened over

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and over again. So that's why
you know, he got people from from

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all over because of his traveling and
the group of people he was looking for

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most specifically were people that were at
a Seventh Day Adventist background, but he

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would run into people along the way
right like myself. I was a drummer

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living in Hollywood. Last thing I
was interested in was religion. I wasn't

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looking for it. I was just
curious about what scripture really said, and

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not from a religious standpoint I was
looking. I was not looking to be

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in a church or anything like that. My religion was was rock and roll

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in heavy metal. And it's really
that simple in that pure music saved my

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life. Music was always an uplift
for me. I was a little bit

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emotional as a teenager, a little
dark, little you know. Metal saved

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my life on several occasions. Man
and so, but I knew when I

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read scripture that it was insane.
It didn't seem to make any sense.

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I could never put it together.
It certainly didn't offer me any solace like

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it did my grandparents or my grandmother
on the French side, at the Tybeeau

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side, it just was just didn't
make any sense. I meet this guy

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and this group of people like Steve, and they give a study, they

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put it together in a way where, oh my god, now it makes

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sense. Now I can see it. So, you know, it's very

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powerful. So that's why I was
twenty one man. You know, it

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was twenty three when I came out
of that building. And you know,

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you've got to think when people go
into the military, or high school students

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graduate, they go to college,
or they go into the military or wherever

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they go, you know, those
next four year years are very informative.

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There's an old saying. I think
it's interesting if you're if you if you're

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if you're not a radical in your
twenties, you've got no heart. But

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if you haven't turned establishment in your
thirties, you have no brains. And

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I always thought that was interesting.
I still have no brains. But the

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point is that it's good to be
passionate about what it is you're learning,

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but it's not good to close your
mind right or to accepted dogma as being

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the only truth. And that's what
we tend to do when you're younger.

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The example, best example I can
give is anyone that joins the military.

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They shave your head. They start
right there with bringing you down. So

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when they coordinate you to tap you
on the shoulder and you jump out of

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the plane right if you're in the
paratroopers, for example, and training so

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much they tap you on the shoulder, you know, to jumps. Time

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that you're up in the plane and
they tap you on that shoulder, you're

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going to automatically jump it because it
becomes an automated response. Yeah, and

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that's just kind of one of the
ways that I address, Uh, you

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know, mind control. A lot
of people say that when we were brainwashed,

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it was mind control and all that. You know, that's that's that's,

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that's anything that that's anything in life, especially military, is just you

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know, they're they're great at that, um being in a band, you

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know, for guys they envision I'll
trying to make something happ happen to create

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music together. That becomes very um
my opic if you will, you know,

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very focused what it is you're trying
to do. So that's there's all

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kinds of examples of this throughout history. Absolutely, Now, from my understanding,

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Crash never claimed to be Jesus or
a reincarnation of Jesus, right,

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that was a spin that the media
put on his story. And uh,

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but he claimed to be anointed,
which messiah means anointed almost more specifically means

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anointed with oil. Is a definition
of Messiah but did he ever actually call

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himself a messiah? That you can
recall, he didn't go around saying that.

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Obviously there's clips out there of him
saying it. So he said it

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to certain people, I think one
negotiator, and that was he doing that

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as a grandiose thing? Was he
doing that? It's kind of throw them

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off track. I have no idea
where he said that stuff. He didn't

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go around to us calling us calling
him messiah. He originally started off when

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I came in on. I was
only there for a solid year before everything

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happened. That's another guy's over about
six months to nine months before. But

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being at Mount Carmen was only there
for a year. But I was always

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under the impression that he was he
had the Seventh Angel's message. Message in

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the Seventh Angels Message. However,
there's a scene in Revelation where the Lamb

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comes and take the book out of
the Father's hand. He opens the seal

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in the book is seal what seven
seals? No man can reveal it?

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And the Lamb takes the book and
opens the book, and Koresh would basically

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say, now let me show you
what the seven seals are. If you

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can't show me, And that would
be his challenge for people, Can you

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show me where the seven seals are? If you're a religious leader, nobody

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knows that it's a mystery, right
well, he would claim that he could

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show it, and at that point
they usually got one or two responses.

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If you were a religious leader,
or you know you're already in establish your

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own religion, you would say that's
blasphemous. You're saying that that you're the

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lamb. How dare you? You
know? And then they get angry and

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those of the listen. David would
start showing where it's the first seal,

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found the man on the white horse, where's the second seals? Found the

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man on the pale horse? And
been on the red horsemen on the dark

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horse? And he would go he
would go through these and take you all

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through scripture a puzzle book and kind
of show you where each horseman is found

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back on the pages of the Old
Testament. There was. It was fascinating,

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right, I'll give you know,
it's very fascinating. So you know,

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the point is he would take you
back and show you so that you

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have to draw your own conclusion to
who you felt he was. Did you

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personally believe that he was a messiah
or a prophet or how did because I'm

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trying to figure out what's going on
here, right was it? Did you

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have these followers because of what he
was saying and what he was teaching,

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you know, the Bible and all
that the Seven Seals of Revelation? Or

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were people following him and staying at
Mount Carmel because of who they thought?

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He was? A massa prophet for
example. I can't speak for everyone,

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but I can speak for myself,
and what I can tell you is I

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felt that David Kresh was inspired to
teach these things, and I felt that

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he had I felt that he was
given real visions and that he was shown

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real things. And I don't I
never believe that he had just made it

283
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up. Even to this day,
I try to believe that he had made

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that up and how could he have
come up with it? And and I

285
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pundered a lot, So I believe
he was inspired. I never looked at

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him as being Jesus or the Messiah
or but you know that that could be

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a personal thing for me. I
think maybe some people dead view him as

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being that. I tend to be
more of the doubting Thomas. You know,

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it's like kingdom is going to be
set up and on Mount Zion,

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as it says in scripture, which
means that Mount Zion has to be raised

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above all of the mountain rangers,
which hasn't happened. So, you know,

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there's a lot for the kingdom to
be set up scripturally that need to

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take place at Heaven, huge tracts
of the scripture that have never been fulfilled.

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You know, that just hasn't happened
yet. You know, I look

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back to seventy eight D when the
Romans went in and sacked Jerusalem. Right

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there's these Zealit Jews ended up in
King Herod's palace that he built in the

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middle of the desert called Masada.
And the Romans went in and they destroyed

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Jewishem. They raised that they destroyed
the Second Temple, and you know,

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the Jewels were revolting against the Romans. And these these seventy seventy Jews ended

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up on the top of Masada and
they held out there against the Romans for

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three years, and while the Romans
built a ramp up the side of Massada

302
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right to kill these Jews. One
three years of pragan up there, they

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all believe the scriptures was going to
be fulfilled, that God was going to

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come down and set up the kingdom, destroy the Romans, and put the

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Jewish people in power. Right,
this is what was supposed to have happened.

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This was there, the fulfillment of
all their ancient scriptures. Three years

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go by, the Romans finally finished
the last finished their ramp, and they're

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going to destroy the Jews on the
next day. They finished it in night.

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They never attacked a night, They
attacked the dawn. So they waited

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that one final day. And while
they were waiting that night, you know,

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the Jews took their own lives.
They cast lots of ten, and

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those ten Jews killed the rest of
the other Jews. And these were different

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rabbi lived with different sects of people, right, And then they did they

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did. They drew a lot of
three three people now killed the others the

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ten, and then the three drew
out for one, and that one person

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had to kill the others and then
take his own life. Can't take your

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life in Judaism, so they wanted
to minimize the sin as much as possible,

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so it's only one person actually taking
their own life. And then it

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says Josepha says, a great historian
says that the Romans marveled greatly at the

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sacrifice the Jews made in keeping them
from the victory. Right. Yeah.

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So the point is that if it
ever was the time where the Scripture should

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have been to fufilled, that should
have been right there at that moment.

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It all led up to that.
And you know, consecutively throughout time,

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every millennial group, where every group
that study scripture has always felt like they're

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living in the last days. You
know, back at the turn of the

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century, not the previous century,
to this last one. A lot of

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people last Seventh Day adventis included a
lot of Christians, a lot of religious

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people felt that they were living in
the last days. I mean, you

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know, it's crazy. I mean, we had to train you know,

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these are sides of great technologies that
are that are coming true. Oh my

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god, this self stuff is being
fulfilled. How much show more than now?

332
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We got a phone. This thing
is a miracle. You can watch

333
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:34.960
movies on it, you can want
it, you could do anything on this.

334
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.079
You can run a business from this. So it's a freaking miracle.

335
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.559
If you were to go back one
hundred years, two hundred years with this

336
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thing. You could dazzle people.
You dazzle the pants right off the point.

337
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As we're living in miracles all around
us, right and there are still

338
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multi millennial groups groups just in general. I think any minute that any of

339
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these things can happen and take place, as as did David, and he

340
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felt that we were on the precipice
of these these a scripturally, and they

341
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just didn't know. It hasn't happened
yet. I think that they did,

342
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:10.880
just in not a literal way in
the way that he was thinking that they

343
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were going to happen, because they
kind of did happen to melt carmel in

344
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the way that he was predicting.
A lot of people said a self fulfilling

345
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prophecy, um, But did you
know a tank is a pretty amazing self

346
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fulfilling prophecy. I just want to
throw that out there, you know,

347
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he said, about three months four
months before all this happened, I was

348
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on the roof with them. We
were building, you know, putting the

349
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roof on the big place. He
said, tention, what are you going

350
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:38.960
to do in the tanks running up
and down the w Ranch Road? And

351
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I said, David isn't never gonna
be tanks or what are you crazy?

352
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Sure enough they brought tanks and they're
running up and down the w Ranch Road.

353
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So you know there was there was
a answers. You had an earlier

354
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.519
question too. Yeah, I'm sitting
there during the siege and I'm reading scripture

355
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.960
and the saw it's talking about the
whole world being against the Lord's anointed one,

356
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.440
saying brick there, let us break
their bands a center and cast their

357
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.000
chords away from us and David but
say they didn't want the seals, right,

358
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:11.960
So it's like you got all these
armies. It's like there's an army

359
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:15.319
sot forth against us, and we're
reading articles, we're hearing stuff on TV

360
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:23.079
about them bringing in um um,
what's the word I'm looking for, them

361
00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:30.599
bringing another military like the Russians were
coming in for the psychops program, literally

362
00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.799
representatives from all over the world,
and some of these tactical armies were coming

363
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:40.680
in to help the FBI, um, you know, with with training and

364
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:44.960
tactics and things. And it's just
you're reading this and that scripture now becomes

365
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.519
literal. Right, the world has
set themselves against this person. Everybody hated

366
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:55.880
if you remember you probably you're too
young, but if you look at some

367
00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:00.960
of the every day they had a
press conference, the press conference so much

368
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.319
vitio against the group. We were
the most demonized group in history at the

369
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:10.079
time, on a global scale.
I mean, you know, when we

370
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:12.799
came out of that place, we
were worried about being hit, having tomatoes

371
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:18.160
started us, literally everything, because
they did such a thorough job at demonizing

372
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:23.279
the group, so it was much
easier I think when the people died in

373
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the place burnt for people to accept
it as just a bunch of religious fanatics.

374
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They got what they deserved, and
that's what the government was counting on,

375
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.839
that the people would believe that.
Did you, guys Mount Carmel see

376
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:42.160
the events of Ruby Ridge while you
were there or did you see those news

377
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:48.559
broadcasts and what was the chatter going
on at Mount Carmel during that time?

378
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.519
Yeah, no, we were following
that and it was you know, we

379
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:56.519
were shocked by it. We were
shocked that they could just you know,

380
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.880
go into a guy's mountain cabin the
middle of no where, shoot the kid's

381
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:06.200
dog, shoot his son, and
then you know, a few days later,

382
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:11.000
shoot Vicky Weaver in the doorway while
she's holding her baby in her arms.

383
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:17.839
It was terribly shocking to us.
And you know, I mean when

384
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.119
we talked, I know Sarah Weaver. Sarah was like fifteen or sixteen when

385
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.319
that happened. She was the daughter. And I've talked to her on the

386
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:32.680
phone and she said that during their
siege after her mother was killed, that

387
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.160
she had to step over her mother's
body, and she had to step over

388
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.039
the blood that had coagulated on the
floor to get to the kitchen so they

389
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:41.960
could get food, and she'd have
to bring it back and every time she

390
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.799
would have to step over her mother's
body. And I want to point out

391
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.480
what the Fed said during that siege
there. The following day after killing Vicky

392
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:56.480
Weaver, they were yelling into the
house, Hey, Vicky, what are

393
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.039
you gonna make for breakfast this morning? You're gonna have scrambled days. You're

394
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:03.680
gonna make pancakes, and they're yelling
this, and of course, you know,

395
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.640
there's Sarah having to hear see her
dead mother laying on the floor and

396
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.880
they're talking to her. She's alive. Now that the FBI or that the

397
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.720
government has claimed that they did not
realize that they had shot Vicky Weaver that

398
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.440
she was dead. Problem with that
is they get Lonti Horiucci, who was

399
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:25.480
the he was the assassin, the
sniper. What they called the ford looking

400
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:30.200
observer was actually a sniper who shot
Vicky Weaver in the face. And trial

401
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:36.640
testimony it showed there that they had
an expert on saying because Lonti Yucchi said

402
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.960
he didn't know it was Vicky Weaver
he was shooting. He couldn't tell,

403
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:42.599
and it didn't look like it was
a baby in her hand. It looked

404
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.519
like she had a gun in her
hand. And then an expert and I

405
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.720
guess it was fifty yards away.
And they asked the expert from fifty yards

406
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.240
away with a high powered scope,
do you know what you're shooting? And

407
00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:53.319
he says, yeah, I can
see the hairs on their forehead. I

408
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:56.599
know exactly what I'm shooting at its
yards away. There's no way that he

409
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.119
could have mistaken a baby for a
gun. So you know that's that man.

410
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.279
I mean, it's like he knew
exactly what he shooting. They knew

411
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.519
what there, They knew what they
were doing. They just didn't care.

412
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.279
They're Feds, they're above the law. It's eidently let's talk about that for

413
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.440
a minute. It makes me so
angry. Um, the authorities, the

414
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:22.680
local authorities, the district attorney,
it would be for it for Idaho wanted

415
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:29.200
to go after the FEDS and specifically
Alan Houchi for their actions there and for

416
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.559
lying on the stand, and you
know, they were gonna get it for

417
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:34.160
perjury, and the government said,
no, you can't, you can't,

418
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.559
you can't go after our people,
and basically pulled everyone out. And there's

419
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:44.440
they made it. It was impossible
for the local authorities who wanted to do

420
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.160
the right thing and prosecute some of
the members of the FBI, and the

421
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:53.279
government said, you can't prosecute anyone
that's involved the government. So you know,

422
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.079
that's what it was there. They're
above the law man. They can

423
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.839
go and and kill you with impunity
because they have complete immunity. There was

424
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:05.839
a subtlement that was reached for the
weavers though, right they got millions of

425
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.640
dollars, right they did. But
so what I mean, you know,

426
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:15.079
after the losing both you know,
you're in Sarah's case, losing her mother

427
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:20.559
and losing her brother, fourteen year
old brother, the kid it was the

428
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.240
eight or fourteen I can't remember at
the time of my head her young brother.

429
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:28.440
I mean, you know, it's
devastating. What do What good's money

430
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.519
going to do? Your family's gone. And these people weren't money motivated,

431
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:34.359
you know. I mean they lived
on the side of the mountain. So

432
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.720
sometimes money isn't a proper compensation if
you're They believe they were poor, but

433
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:44.640
they believe they had the good life
because they understood the importance of family.

434
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.279
They understood the importance of a cup
of coffee while you're watching the sunrise on

435
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:52.160
the side. You know, it's
really impautiful. If you can simplify your

436
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:57.240
life, your life is much more
beautiful if you can realize, and I

437
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:00.480
didn't realize until I get to be
an old man with a white frigging beard,

438
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.680
how time with family and time with
the people you love is so much

439
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:09.880
more important than trying to get ahead
in the rat race. Okay, in

440
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.440
other words, And I've talked to
several nurses, and I've read several books

441
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.240
on this, on death in the
end and where we go all that stuff.

442
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:21.880
There is not one person on their
deathbed that says I wish I would

443
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.279
have worked more, Not one,
not one person that's about to take their

444
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:29.000
less breath. That has ever said
I wish I would have worked more.

445
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:30.279
They always say I wish I would
have spend more time with my family.

446
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.440
I wish I would have realize what
the value of the people that I love

447
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:42.759
is. So now, speaking of
the conditions the weavers were living in on

448
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.079
top of the mountain, what was
the conditions like Mel Carmel, Because reading

449
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:53.640
through your book you described it as
basically camping indoors with very not a lot

450
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:59.519
of running water, very few space
eaters during the winter. So what was

451
00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:05.319
that like living at Mount Carmel.
Listen, it sucked. I hated it,

452
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:07.000
I'll be honest. But you know, we had a we had an

453
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:13.639
atheouse. You know, it's cold
and you're walking to the ad house and

454
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:15.599
you're just like, oh, this
is what what am I doing here?

455
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.199
But that's how Mount Carmel was set
up. It wasn't set up to be

456
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.360
like, oh this is great,
what a great retreat. We're having a

457
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:27.239
great time. Dave didn't want you
to stay. He wanted you to leave.

458
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.960
He's like, if you're here,
you're here to learn the scripture.

459
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:34.000
So it's not about a four star
hotel. It's not about your comfort.

460
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:38.119
It's about how bad do you want
to know this truth? So it looked

461
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:44.199
very monastically now. The good use
to that is is if all the power,

462
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.760
if the if the power grid were
to go out tomorrow, I would

463
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.920
stuffer more and out at my age
than I did then. But I know

464
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.480
that I could survive it. I
don't want to, but I can live

465
00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:01.119
without this thing. I can live
without it. I don't want to.

466
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:07.199
It's you know, it gonna be
very uncomfortable having to go to an outhouse,

467
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.400
for example, But it's survivable,
right because I've gone through it.

468
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.519
I worry about people in this generation
that have absolutely no idea at all what

469
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:22.920
they would do without these things.
They truly have something to lose. So

470
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.440
you know, it's good to test
your limits, is what I'm trying to

471
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:30.679
say, and try to not be
attached to the wrong things. I'm seeing

472
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.119
that as someone who was brought up
in the eighties that had a blast.

473
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.519
I played in rock bands. I
had a great time. I mean,

474
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:43.119
I would live my life man,
you know, so I don't know,

475
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:45.599
man, I just I would hate
to learn for this way. I would

476
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:51.280
hate to have gone through COVID as
a teenager or a young adult, as

477
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.559
many teenagers and young adults had to
go through the last couple of years,

478
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.840
that would have been very, very
rough for me as a middle age guy.

479
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:59.519
It was great. I was going
to watch the End of the World

480
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:01.320
on my talent vision right there and
just very comfortable with my apartment, no

481
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:06.159
problem whatsoever. I didn't have a
problem either. I actually enjoyed it.

482
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:08.960
Traffic was low, no traffic.
I was in California at the time,

483
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:15.239
just zooming a long highway. We
realized what all the traffic was from.

484
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:17.639
They were from people that didn't need
to really be there. That's the way

485
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:22.800
that I looked at it anyway.
But so the reasons for the conditions weren't

486
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:27.480
just for no reason. It wasn't
because of the lack of money or the

487
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:31.320
lack of funding or any because some
people had the Mount Kromel had jobs outside

488
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:35.119
of Mount Rommel, right, So
it didn't really have anything to do with

489
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.639
lack of money or lack of funding. It was for a different reason for

490
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:45.559
the conditions. Correct scriptural is called
the withering experience. There's several profits that

491
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.920
talked about the withering experience and it
was a part of life at Mount Carmel,

492
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.599
and that was basically just stated,
you're not gonna be comfortable. You're

493
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:57.400
gonna be going through as you learned
David's truth, as you learn the truth

494
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:02.159
of the Seven Seals and go through
the experience, it's like you're being pressurized

495
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:07.400
into a diamond from a ball of
clay, and you know there's gonna be

496
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.079
many tests, There's gonna be many
things you have to focus on, being

497
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:15.920
too cold, being too hot,
all these things that you know that you're

498
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.719
definitely not seeking out the creature comforts. It's kind of the opposite. So

499
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:23.360
what some people call sacrifices. The
people a Mount Carmel consider themselves to be

500
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:27.679
marines of God in a weird kind
of way, and that they were,

501
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.559
you know, a part of something
special. They believe that they were part

502
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.199
of the wave Sheath, which,
according to descriptions, the first or the

503
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.800
first root. Those that are they
choose to be chosen. They're going to

504
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:40.719
learn these truths first, they're gonna
have to go through an experience called the

505
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.559
time of Trouble, such as never
was since the beginning of Man. It

506
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.639
says, in the actual latter days, right before the Kingdom of God is

507
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:52.079
supposed to be set up in Mountain
Zion. There will be a time of

508
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:55.360
trouble the whole world will have to
go through, and it will be horrendous.

509
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:00.320
World War two is not even go
to be compared to anything. You

510
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.159
know. Again, had I been
living in the time or young in the

511
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.519
time of World War two, that
would have seemed like yea, at the

512
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.960
end of the world. Absolutely the
time of trouble. But so that's what

513
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:15.639
I compare it to. It would
have to be worse than World War Two.

514
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.679
And there's not much that I can
think of that's worse than World War

515
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:22.000
Two. I mean, what a
horrible orrible experience that was for people.

516
00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:27.119
But yet still that's not to be
compared to this time of trouble that the

517
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:30.639
scriptures talks about. In the latter
days, we believed our group was going

518
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:32.800
to have to go through it first, and then the rest of the world

519
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:37.760
would have to go through it.
Kind of seems like it's shaping up that

520
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:45.039
way now. Did Crush consider Mount
Carmel and the people that resided within Mount

521
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:52.840
Carmel branch Davidians, and did you
consider yourself a branch Davidian. I think

522
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.559
probably some of the older people didn't
because they were there under haut If and

523
00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:59.760
then ben Road and the then Lois
Road and all the way to Vernon,

524
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:04.280
who became David koreshh changes your name
from Vernon out the David Kress. So

525
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.320
probably some of the older people didn't. I didn't. I just had no

526
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.000
idea. I mean, the people
that I knew, like Lisa Ferris and

527
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:14.360
some of the younger people that had
come in. We consider ourselves students,

528
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.239
that we were students of the seven
Seals that we're studying these seven Seals.

529
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.159
That's how I looked at it.
I hadn't really I don't remember hearing the

530
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.320
term Branch Davidian or realizing that's what
the group was called. And to the

531
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:30.039
press said the Branch Davidians over and
over and then you know, of course

532
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:34.800
that stems from the paperwork that was
on the books, but I didn't know

533
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:37.679
that at the time. It wasn't
a focus. Yeah, the term cult

534
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:44.840
was definitely thrown around in the media
a lot, just as the word conspiracy

535
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:49.960
theorist is thrown around now, which
I do believe that the conspiracy community is

536
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.360
full of a bunch of wacka dues. But in this case, the word

537
00:39:53.360 --> 00:40:00.639
cult thrown at Mount Carmel in a
way that if something try magic were to

538
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:04.440
happen there, then the blame could
be shifted from the ATF and the FBI

539
00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:09.000
and blamed on the residence and David
Koresh as the scapegoat because of the implications

540
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:15.559
and the preconceived notions and baggage that
comes along with the word cult. Now,

541
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:20.719
with that being said, the only
cult ish behavior, and I hope

542
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:24.679
that you can really explain this in
detail that I could see throughout the activities

543
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:31.480
at Mount Carmel was the rule of
abstinence and celibacy with the group, and

544
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:35.960
that only David Koresh could have sex
with the women there. And I know

545
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:42.840
that there's a reason for that,
and I do believe that my personal beliefs

546
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:49.079
through reading and researching the Bible,
that sex or the orgasm was the original

547
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:53.400
sin that spoke about in Genesis.
Through you know, the angels of God,

548
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:58.400
Gabriel would show humans how to approcreate
without using the orgasm to produce a

549
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:05.320
divine child. And the true term
of a virgin birth doesn't mean without sex.

550
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:09.679
It's the virgin just means immaculate and
clean, doesn't mean birth without sex.

551
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:15.559
It's sex without the orgasm. The
Blomish Sean humanity is the orgasm,

552
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:19.480
the seat of humanity. But still
you got to think you're a little bit

553
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:29.599
it sounds a little cultish that David
Koresh kind of anointed himself to this position

554
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.480
of the only person being able to
have sex with the women at Mount Carmen.

555
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.880
I'm hoping that you can explain this
for me and for the audience.

556
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:45.440
He pointed out what the scripture that
he was shown to him said, in

557
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:50.800
other words, and he would use
There was some scriptures in the New Testament

558
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:53.280
that talked about paul I's talking about
those who in the latter days, those

559
00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:58.360
who would be married would be as
that they were not married. There was

560
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:00.679
there was other scriptures in the Old
test and two that talks about these things.

561
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:05.599
You know, listen, I think
um seventh Day at Venice, if

562
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:08.320
you want to go back to they
had a thing against pepper. So it's

563
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:14.280
like almost anything being too spicy,
which I think is ridiculous. Frankly,

564
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:20.119
it is a little bit too much, you know for sex is listen,

565
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.800
we wouldn't be here for one for
sex, one for appropriation. It's it's

566
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:32.760
the vital most instinct of mankind.
So you know you're not really going to

567
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:38.719
be able to control that. And
you know, I think that David this

568
00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:44.039
obviously, you know, you look
at of course it's going to benefit him

569
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:50.480
and believe he had to have a
certain amount of kids for for his vision,

570
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.119
you know, to come true.
I don't even there shut amount of

571
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:59.159
kids. Think he didn't really say, you know, I mean it had

572
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:01.360
come out later it was like twenty
four elders or something, is what he

573
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:06.199
was trying to do there? To
me that that wasn't even a part of

574
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:09.559
it. To me, it was
part of the withering experience, and it

575
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:15.519
was what is the test for this
particular group of people and just the year

576
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:20.400
or two that they have together before
they're facing this time of trouble since it

577
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:23.159
never was and you know, frankly, when he came up with this,

578
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:28.840
I say, came up with this
was before my time. I walked into

579
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:31.159
this, and it took me a
couple months to figure out what was going

580
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.559
on and how it was working.
And then it wasn't really until I was

581
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:37.599
showing the fourth or fifth seal and
that you know, it was all time.

582
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.800
If I would have just jumped right
into it. I would have been

583
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:44.400
gone like most people like me,
trying to explain this. I can't try

584
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:49.159
to explain something that takes two weeks
to understand the first five seals alone,

585
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.639
and it's literally two weeks a twelve
hour day studies to get those studies.

586
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:55.840
But when you go through like that, you do start to see a bigger

587
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.400
vision and then you have to accept
is this something I can do, something

588
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.719
I want to try, something I
can't many of the couples, and it

589
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:06.840
came to the upper room lower room
experience is what has been said right,

590
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:12.599
Those who were married would be as
though they were at were not married,

591
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.519
And many of the married people had
to talk about this. They had to

592
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:17.559
fight about it, they had to
wrestle with it back and forth, and

593
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:22.280
some people left because of it.
Some people did not stay there, and

594
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:24.880
those are the people that became David
Chrish's greatest retractors. But you know,

595
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:30.480
he said, when he was shown
this, he felt that somebody, people

596
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.320
close to him were going to kill
him for this, but yet it was

597
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.800
still what God was telling him to
do and showing him to do, and

598
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:39.920
so he presented it. And to
me, that's part of the whole,

599
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:44.480
the completeness of it all, the
fact that he did that and people were

600
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:49.199
still willing to stay with him.
I mean, that's that's crazy. It's

601
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:53.360
an awesome it's almost a miracle.
Right, Like when I came in.

602
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:59.280
When I came in and I started
to see I started to see a bunch

603
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.960
of you know, moms with single
mothers, right, and they were women.

604
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.239
There weren't little girls running around with
kids. And I hate this image

605
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.639
that is painted. Is because Michelle
was very young. Yes she was,

606
00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:15.880
you know. But the truth is, in Texas at fourteen, under Texas

607
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:21.920
law, with primal consent was legal. I don't think that's right. But

608
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:30.599
nonetheless, Koresh was guilty of either
statutory rape and or not monogamy the opposite

609
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:37.519
polygamy, right, So he should
have stood trial for those primes, and

610
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.840
he should have been judged by a
jury of his peers. He wasn't given

611
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:44.840
the chance to stand trial because they
went an attack. They should have got

612
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:47.840
him running in front of the house, right, but they didn't. So

613
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:52.599
to get back to your point,
and this is something I actually do want

614
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:54.960
to talk about, a lot of
people did leave. They didn't put up

615
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:59.480
with that. They didn't want to
accept or have to give up their wife,

616
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:02.599
right, whereas other people said,
okay, they see something bigger here

617
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:07.000
and they decided to stay personally for
me, when I started to and I'm

618
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.719
just going to speak for me,
that's probably the best way to do it.

619
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:14.119
When I started to see that,
you know, they're okay, Like

620
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:16.199
there's a there's a girl over there, she's got a kid. There's another

621
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:21.519
girl over that's got a kid.
Where are the dads? And and then

622
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:24.360
I was told about the inner workings
of the group, if you will,

623
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:29.760
and that these were Carreshot kids.
I just started thinking to myself it was

624
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.519
a social experiment to me, how
do they do this without killing each other?

625
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.000
How has no one killed him?
How is this community existing? And

626
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:44.840
I was stunned because I was twenty
two, I had played in bands,

627
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:49.039
and we were all we were all
trying to get as many different girlfriends as

628
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:52.039
we possibly could, but we certainly
didn't want them all under one roof.

629
00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:54.800
How do you do how do you
manage that? How do they not kill

630
00:46:54.880 --> 00:47:00.800
you? How does not freaking work
so well? And I'm trying to be

631
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:07.400
as real as possible for how my
thought process worked back then and I so

632
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.599
couldn't believe that these women could live
with each other and even help each other's

633
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.960
children out and watch after each other. It was stunted. It was an

634
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.360
act of God as far as I
was concerned. And I mean that in

635
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.639
all sincerity. I just I could
not believe that the dynamic there was even

636
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:27.840
working at all. And I knew
that I had to see more. I

637
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.639
wanted to see. I get to
a point where I wanted to leave every

638
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:31.840
day. I didn't want to be
celibate. Are you kidn dude? I

639
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:35.239
was twenty two years old, I
had long hair, I was having the

640
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:37.760
time of my life, living in
Hollywood, playing in the band, last

641
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:42.360
friggin thing I was looking for.
But I took it a day at a

642
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.440
time, and I knew I wanted
to see what was going to happen next.

643
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:49.519
Like this guy's saying he's going to
be attacked by authorities and there's going

644
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:52.519
to be tanked. No way.
That was my attitude. So the curiosity

645
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.960
got the better of me and I
stuck it out. How long were you

646
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:01.599
solid before? Well, that last
year, after I learned everything, I

647
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:06.079
was celibate for six months. I
screwed up drastically and then had another six

648
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:10.719
months. Yeah, and then after
the and then after the fact, it's

649
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:16.440
just like, okay, I'm that
went a little crazy. So it's pretty

650
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:21.360
clear that David was sleeping was under
age roles at Moult Carmel, Like you

651
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:28.039
said, some young it is now
age of fourteen years old. But did

652
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:36.519
you witness Crush physically abusing children at
Mount Carmel at all, like in the

653
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.360
form of hitting them, like domestic
child abuse, because according to your book,

654
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:45.519
these accusations of child abuse first stem
from Mark Brow, which actually left

655
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:53.440
Mount Carmel because of the whole New
Light revelation thing. So did you personally

656
00:48:53.480 --> 00:49:00.719
witness any child abuse from David Krush? Well, there's it depends on is

657
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.719
there a difference. To me,
there's a difference between corporal punishment and child

658
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:05.639
because I want to get that right
out of the way, all right.

659
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:10.280
I was not raised with corporal punishment
in my household. I was never hit

660
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.880
or beaten or spanked or anything like
that. Mostly that happened him is my

661
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.760
grandmother pulled me from behind the couch
from my hair, right, Okay,

662
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:22.400
that was the worst I got it. When I was hiding from that kind

663
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:28.440
of thing. But at Mount Carmel
they practiced spankings and it was done.

664
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.480
Here's how it was done. It
was explained very detail. If a child

665
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:36.760
does something, that's where they could
get themselves hurt and there would be spankings.

666
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.840
And the spankings you had to talk
to the child calmly, tell them

667
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:44.199
why they're being spanked, spank them
on the bottom five or six times,

668
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:45.880
and then give them a big hug
and tell them to go off and don't

669
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:49.400
do it again. And that's how
it was done, and that's how the

670
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.639
mothers did it to their kids.
Now, I think that some of the

671
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:57.599
spankings were a lot harsher before my
time, especially talking to Dana and talking

672
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:02.280
to some of the of CRUSH's wives
that left right. Um, she spanked

673
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:06.800
her kids so severely, I guess
one of the bottoms bled and I would

674
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.960
call that abuse absolutely, But again
that was before my time and coming into

675
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.400
it. Um, the worst I
saw I was I saw David Koresh spank

676
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:19.599
Cyrus once. It was pretty hard
and I was I was disturbed by it,

677
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:22.000
but I still it was a spanking. I didn't call it a beating

678
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.559
because it was you know, it
was done in a controlled environment out of

679
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:30.159
love. And again I just want
to say that I do not believe in

680
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:34.920
spankings corporal punishment. But if you're
living in a group that is scriptural,

681
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:40.079
there's many, many, many scriptures
to talk about spoiled spare the rod,

682
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:45.360
spoil the child. Um spankings are
a huge part of the scripture. Many

683
00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:50.280
different profits talk about it. It's
talked about in the New Testament as well.

684
00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:53.360
It's just there. I mean,
if that's if that's the book you're

685
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:58.679
living by, then that's going to
be a reality. And the children were

686
00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.960
really well behaved, probably the most
well behaved the children that I ever seen

687
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:07.880
on video and at the CPS office
and all that really well behaved children now

688
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:13.400
and joy Sparks said that you got
to remember, they sent the state in

689
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:17.760
what we the state authorities that are
I can't remember what it's called in Texas.

690
00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.679
Here it's the HHS Department of Health
and Human Services. I can't remember

691
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.360
what it's called in Texas, but
it's similar. And you know, they

692
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:30.239
sent in there was a joy Sparks
ran an investigation. They did twice and

693
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:34.880
they interviewed the kids. They found
no signs of mental or physical abuse and

694
00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:38.599
they dropped their case. So they
did a case, they interviewed a lot

695
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:44.000
of children, they interviewed a lot
of the people inside there that they dropped

696
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:45.960
the case. They found no evidence
for abuse. The kids were smart,

697
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:49.880
the kids were well behaved. Yeah, at the end of the day,

698
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:54.239
David won. David won that state
case. But you also have to remember,

699
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:58.199
and this is where it gets nefarious
to me. So I'm gonna turn

700
00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.000
around when you get the ah.
They come in and they have the search

701
00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:05.639
warrant, and the search warrant,
the majority of the search warrant is about

702
00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:10.400
child abuse and about spankings and about
these issues that has already been investigated and

703
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:15.800
let go by the state. Right. So there's a part of the search

704
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:21.000
warrant that deals with upper low receivers
and firearms being made into illegal firearms,

705
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.880
which at the time they had absolutely
no proof of, right. But it

706
00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:30.719
was almost like the warrant was more
about the child abuse issue than the other.

707
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:36.000
So at what and that has nothing
to do with ATF jurisdiction. So

708
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.159
again they're showing the judges this is
all for what. This is all to

709
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:43.079
demonize the people to get what they
want, which is a warrant for a

710
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.320
no knock warrant, which means it
would have to be a rayed. They

711
00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:50.280
would have to go into a militaristic
fashion. It's what they wanted. And

712
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:52.840
you know that's how they get the
helicopters again by saying there was a drug

713
00:52:52.920 --> 00:53:01.760
nexus. Now did the ATF present
that warrant on the day of the I

714
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:06.719
wasn't at the front door. Now
they claim by the ATF is they came

715
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:12.679
up, we have a warrant.
What did they say. I'm trying to

716
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:17.719
remember what says that they said.
They claimed they came in yelling that they

717
00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:22.159
have a warrant and a stand down
or something like that. But everything,

718
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:25.480
I think that everything happened very quickly. And again I'm gonna go back to

719
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:30.039
my perspective and I'll tell you what
I saw. I was in the cafeteria

720
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:35.320
area and I could hear helicopters in
the background. All happened pretty quickly.

721
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.159
Koresh came in from the second story
and he was on the there was a

722
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:44.519
stairwell it was there were a couple
of their men and he said, they're

723
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:46.639
coming, They're on their way.
Don't anybody do anything stupid. I'm gonna

724
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:50.360
go try to talk to them.
That's what we're all about here at Mount

725
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:53.079
Carmel. And he ran up the
hallway. He ran down the steps up

726
00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:58.000
the hallway and I heard him say, hold on, there's women and children

727
00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:00.000
here. Stop stopping. Then boom
boom, boom bum bum heard all kinds

728
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:05.760
of gun fire. Everyone at the
front door told me the same story.

729
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:08.719
Jamie told me the same story.
Everyone was at the front door. That

730
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:10.960
he held the door and he said, hold on, there's one of the

731
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:14.920
children. He was talking about it. The door in his hand came back

732
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:16.880
at him for the velocity of bullets
sitting he slammed it, fell back.

733
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:21.800
Perry Jones shot and went down screaming, and that's when some of the people

734
00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:28.639
started to shoot firebat defend their position. Now, from the trials in San

735
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:30.719
Antonio, we learned a couple of
things. Actually, I think it was

736
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:35.800
more from the Texas Rangers talked to
all the ATF guys that were at the

737
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:39.280
front and one of the guys that
I reached from my fire firearm and it

738
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:43.880
went off, and I believe that
was the first shot fired. That was

739
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.280
the original testimony for the Texas Rangers. And then when it came for the

740
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:51.159
congressional hearing and it came time for
the trials, he went back on that

741
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:53.800
testimony said that that's not true,
so they changed their testimony. In a

742
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:58.480
couple of occasions, another guy said
he thought One of the ATF guys said

743
00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:04.800
he thought that the shots were people
shooting at the dogs. And I believe

744
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:07.360
in a lot of people believe that
some of the first shots were the team

745
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:12.480
that was set to go and shoot
and kill the dog. We had five

746
00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:15.039
alaska anamis in the pend Up area. They were they were gunning down very

747
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:22.280
quickly. This is something the ATF
tries to say that the people inside the

748
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:27.320
shot that we shot her on dogs. It's just absolutely ridiculous. In the

749
00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.960
propaganda film they made called the Ambush
at Waco, this movie was made during

750
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:36.639
the siege. It showed an ATF
guy with the fire extinguisher and the dogs

751
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:38.199
and like he's trying to put the
dogs out, like they're in fire or

752
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:40.880
something, trying to get the dogs
to go back from the spray. Where

753
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:44.320
the hell of dogs going to go
after being sprayed. They're in the pend

754
00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:46.880
Up arier nowhere, so they had
to be shot. They know, damn

755
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:51.639
well, they shot the dogs,
and yet they still made a propaganda movie.

756
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.280
Instid of I'm putting them out with
the fire extinguisher. The truth is

757
00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:00.800
that movie was so terrible that the
author of that movie, the writer of

758
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:06.440
that movie, disowned it and apologized
to all the survivors for making it.

759
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.880
He said he was giving the information
during the siege, and he wrote it

760
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:14.119
because he believed if that's the truth, they's been given the truth. So

761
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:17.599
everything he written he had apologized for. To us, that's the power of

762
00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:22.559
propaganda. That's the way that the
machine works, making people believe lies.

763
00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:30.960
Bubbles would be proud. Okay,
I'm just gonna play Devil's advocate here because

764
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:35.559
I think that it's interesting. Do
you think that it's possible that maybe the

765
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:42.760
ATF the first shots were at the
dogs, and then the ATF thought that

766
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.639
those shots were coming from Mount Carmel
and it was people shooting at them,

767
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:50.960
so then they turned around and just
opened fire on the building. That's not

768
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:54.679
a justification at all on their end. I'm just trying to get your thoughts

769
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:59.119
on that that might be a possibility
as well. I think that a lot

770
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:00.880
of that has to do with you
perspective of where you were at the time.

771
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:04.760
If you're at the front, it's
going to sound a little different.

772
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:07.239
If you're at the back of the
convoy, it's going to sound different.

773
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:09.400
If you're one of the guys in
the helicopters, it's going to sound different,

774
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:13.440
you know. I mean. Kevin
Whitecliff, it was at the back

775
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:16.880
of the building, told me after
after the ceasefire that he watched the helicopters

776
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:21.920
flying and shoot at the building and
he saw it. He said that the

777
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.039
first shots were the helicopter shooting at
the building, and he was yelling,

778
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:27.639
He's like, the first shots are
the helicopters. I couldn't believe it either

779
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:30.159
shooting. He was yelling, there's
not a guy that's lying to me.

780
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:35.119
I never doubted him for a second. And I always believe that at the

781
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:38.960
back of the building you had a
very different perspective of what happened than you

782
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:43.920
did if you're at the front of
the building. So that's that. Yeah,

783
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.519
I believe anything is possible. Someone
shooting the dogs and everyone the ATF

784
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:51.559
guys could have thought it was the
people inside shooting. I think it happened

785
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.079
pretty quick. I think as soon
as as Perry went down people started shooting

786
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:58.480
back on That would have been within
seconds, So you know, it's one

787
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:02.239
of those things that could be open
or interpretation, surely. But again,

788
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:07.920
they had a camera at the surveillance
I'll say had two cameras there. They

789
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.039
had a camera team on the ground. And when they were asked for the

790
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.880
surveillance footage that the two or three
cameras that were that were filming the early

791
00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:21.519
stages of the raid. Where are
those tapes? The FBI, the at

792
00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:24.039
F, I'm sorry, the ATF
said one of the tapes was missing and

793
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:31.239
the other one was accidentally erased.
How stupid are you? How how fff

794
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:36.800
and dumb do you have to be
to see that they are destroying evidence here?

795
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:37.960
I mean, seriously, if you
really believe that, then you're a

796
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:40.440
freaking idiot and you get what you
deserve. I'm sorry, you just do.

797
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:46.000
And this is un conspiratorial, it's
fact. And incidentally, I want

798
00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:51.119
to address that all the conspiracy is
is two people, two people that have

799
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:54.239
a plan as conspiracy, So you
know, that's that's it. So when

800
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:59.199
you say conspiratorial theory, that's a
lot like what they say, you know,

801
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:01.960
UFOs the fifties. If you were
a pilot and your report you saw

802
00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:06.440
a UFO. People made you sound
like you were a nut job. And

803
00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:12.000
look at it today now that the
Navy is as actually said yes or whatever

804
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:15.239
they call them, they'll always be
UFOs to me, I'm an old guy.

805
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:19.800
Whatever, it's never gonna be.
I'm sorry, it's always gonna be.

806
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:22.360
It's like Pluto's gonna plant whatever you
get stuff, dude, you know

807
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:28.760
it's always going to be. The
point is it's true. How many people

808
00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:32.719
were their careers destroyed because they came
forward with the fucking truth. Excuse my

809
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:37.840
friends, that they came forward with
the truth to be made fun of,

810
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:43.599
to be called crazy. What a
terrible thing to do to someone that's telling

811
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:45.519
you the truth. And this is
the thing I hate hate about defense.

812
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:50.199
I hate this. They send their
own people in and they use them as

813
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:53.519
a sacrifice instead of listening to what
they have to say and saying, yeah,

814
00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:58.320
this is what our inside guy says. They're not going to do what

815
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:00.840
the inside guy says, and then
try to throw him under the bus,

816
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.679
like with Robert Rodriguez. Yeah there
was an informative there, right, Yeah,

817
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:07.000
they're gonna try to make him the
sacrifice. They do it all the

818
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:09.920
time. They don't care about their
own people if it serves their purpose,

819
01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:14.880
And they don't care about the truth
either. They don't care about the truth.

820
01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:16.719
They care about what's gonna make them
look good. They hope that that

821
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.079
if you're if you have a blue
badge on, that you're a member of

822
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:23.440
the Blue the Blue Shield, and
you're and you're gonna lie for your fellow

823
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:30.239
agents. They hope that absolutely.
Yeah, And I guarantee if the raid

824
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.679
went the way that they planned it, they wouldn't have lost those tapes.

825
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:39.679
So it's like, what's going on
here? So how many residents of Mount

826
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:51.480
Carmel died in that initial attack?
Four? No, six for ATF agents

827
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:59.079
and six people on the inside.
Now what was being side inside of Mount

828
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:07.599
Carmel rounding? Why the ATF on
February twenty eight, nineteen ninety three attacked

829
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:12.079
Mark Coronel Like that was the chatter
there? What was like? What were

830
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:19.480
people talking about inside? For the
reason that this is it? This was

831
01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:22.800
the beginning of the time of trouble
for us. This is God god fulfilling

832
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:25.880
his word. Yeah, that's the
other thing people. People just don't get

833
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:30.440
it. The scripture says, this
is going to happen. A lot of

834
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:35.400
the prophets talking about it. Kress
had been talking about being attacked for years

835
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:38.119
and years and years. Most people
inside did not believe it was going to

836
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:44.199
happen, especially when he was so
accessible. It's not like then. They

837
01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:47.199
said he never left the house,
but he was always He went to Chelsea's

838
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:50.719
Barn public a couple of times people
saw him in town. A lot of

839
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:52.960
people came forward so that they saw
David kreshaurants, so they know that he

840
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:57.039
left the building. They know that
he jogged in front of their house,

841
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:00.320
and they just chose to let it
go. They didn't want that. They

842
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:04.519
wanted a full on assault. That's
what they wanted. That's what they got,

843
01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:08.079
you know. But the point is
the chatter was scriptural. The chatter

844
01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:15.719
is this has happened. Now we
are now we're in a state of a

845
01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:20.159
stage of prophecy, that this is
something that is taking place, that this

846
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:24.880
is exactly as God said, It's
now going to happen. Right, The

847
01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:30.719
message is true, the message is
real. And then they brought on the

848
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:34.800
tanks that made it even true and
more real. And then they would do

849
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:37.880
these press conferences every day and they
were calling us the calls, and they

850
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:43.360
were you know, the demonization is
started instantly, which made it more real.

851
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:49.719
Every time that there was harmonization between
the tactical manners and the negotiators and

852
01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.960
us, I should say, between
the negotiators and US, and people were

853
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:57.000
exiting the building, as many did
on the first few days. Then the

854
01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:00.440
tactical managers would come in and put
the pressure out there that would cut off

855
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:05.039
our power. They would do these
aggressive things. And every time they did

856
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:10.159
something aggressive to one of two things, it built a deep mistrust with the

857
01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:15.960
people inside. Number one. So
it built a deep mistrust. But then

858
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:21.719
at the same time it also solidified
our faith and we believe. And all

859
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:28.079
the scriptures again talk about this that
scripturally, right, the people of God

860
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:34.199
of a contricte and crumble spirit,
the sheep and the people of the world

861
01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:37.480
are the people, especially the military
force, the Feds. You call it

862
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:38.719
Babylone, you call it the Assirians, you call it whatever you want.

863
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:43.679
But that that force of the world, the power of the world, is

864
01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:47.360
one that is very proud and arrogance. They're very proud and arrogant. Even

865
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:51.800
the attorneys were very proud, proud
and arrogant, you know, especially you

866
01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:55.840
know, so the prosecuting attorneys and
you know, if anyone has seen Waco

867
01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:00.920
Aftermath, Dan Cognal and Clive Doyle's
attorneys is featured in that comes off very

868
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:03.960
proudful and arrogant. It's all these
people like, the smarter they are,

869
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:11.119
the more PhD's PhD sometimes means piled
higher and deeper, you know, the

870
01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:14.880
more that you as being just a
common, everyday average person who looked down

871
01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:16.480
and you never have a doctor you
talk to that made you feel like you

872
01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:18.719
were just a total idiot and look
down at you like you were just some

873
01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:23.320
peon that he's saving. It's that
kind of attitude, man, It's that

874
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:25.880
kind of like the smarter you are, the more you got to treat people

875
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.519
like shit out of your own ego
or insecure. I don't know what it

876
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:35.679
is, but that is something that
God hates. I'll say I'm not speaking

877
01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:41.920
throughout scripturally when I say God hates, I say scripturally, and so scripturally,

878
01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:45.199
God doesn't want us people to be
like that. He wants us people

879
01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:49.039
to be contrite, humble, be
respectful, and not that kind of arrogant

880
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:53.519
ass that just thinks that he can
do no wrong and you know, should

881
01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:58.360
be over certain other people that kind
of thing. So my point was is

882
01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:03.400
that the FBI Daily showed us that
those with the spirits that they were of

883
01:05:03.639 --> 01:05:11.800
the proud and the arrogant, which
is also interesting because Crash didn't really seem

884
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:15.559
like that kind of leader. From
my understanding and from my research, he

885
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:23.000
was basically just a part of Mount
Carmel other than when you guys were doing

886
01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:28.119
Bible study, right, he was
just like an everyday person at Mount Carmel.

887
01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:31.559
Would that be a good way to
describe it. Yeah, you know,

888
01:05:31.599 --> 01:05:34.079
I mean he was there building when
we were building, and he was

889
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:38.159
you know, he was he was
there with us just at all times.

890
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:45.239
So it was really he was kind
of kind of rednecky and hickey, normal

891
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:47.719
everyday life. It's when he was
opening the scripture of talking about the scriptures

892
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:54.000
when he became something different or something
more or it's like he almost became someone

893
01:05:54.079 --> 01:05:59.039
else. It's amazing transformation. When
the scripture was open, it was like

894
01:05:59.320 --> 01:06:02.519
it was there, you saw it
and harmonized. It came alive. Yeah,

895
01:06:02.519 --> 01:06:08.280
it definitely came alive. It's a
phenomenal thing. It's like, you

896
01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:13.960
know, you're doing two or three
four hour study and you can go somewhere

897
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:17.119
and you're just rimited to what you
want to know. More So, after

898
01:06:17.239 --> 01:06:25.119
the atf RAID and the FBI got
involved, they how many days did they

899
01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:32.880
hit you guys with psychological tactics of
blasting weird noises like gunfire and supposedly bunnies

900
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:39.440
being murdered, which is completely unproven
tactics and has been characterized as having no

901
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:45.320
long term effects, which were used
by the CIA on interrogation and plus other

902
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:50.360
three letter organizations and is mostly used
for sleep deprivation. I hope that you

903
01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:55.960
guys had some earplugs there at Mount
Carmwell, did you guys have some earplugs?

904
01:06:56.039 --> 01:06:57.920
Is that how you guys got through
that? Yes? Sure, but

905
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:00.519
I wouldn't say it didn't have any
long term e X. I mean,

906
01:07:00.639 --> 01:07:03.880
you know, sleep deprivation is I
think a lot of long term effects when

907
01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:06.800
you're playing loud music and you're keeping
people up and you're definitely trying to make

908
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:12.000
them unstable. It didn't make any
sense to us because it's here you're saying

909
01:07:12.079 --> 01:07:18.320
every day that you got a religious
zealous community right that believes that takes the

910
01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:24.039
Bible literal, and you're saying that
they're crazy or that they you know,

911
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:28.440
they're they're certainly religiously radical, and
what you want to make them more unstable.

912
01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:30.880
They're in there with firearms. You're
saying that they got hand garnage.

913
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:33.280
You're saying they have all this firepower, and you want to make them more

914
01:07:33.440 --> 01:07:40.000
unstable. That's insanity to me,
you know, actually speaking, which let's

915
01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:43.119
talk about that for a little bit. I have I got a website,

916
01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:47.400
Waco Survivors dot com. It's plural
Waco Survivors dot com. And on that

917
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:53.480
site there's a there's a part of
that says literature and then their literature.

918
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:56.599
I have there's a guy named it's
one of the scholars. We work with

919
01:07:56.639 --> 01:08:00.400
a few scholars who've just been great
through all this. At Kathy Singer,

920
01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:05.639
which was a YouTube piano channel with
a lot of interviews on there, James

921
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:10.920
Tabor and Phil Arnold there were two
of the theologians that had that. They

922
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:14.440
were talking to David through a Ron
Engleman show. We were listening the Ron

923
01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:16.800
Inghlmand show, and they were They
came up with the idea that if David

924
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:21.199
wrote down his seven Seal manuscript and
we could get they could get the copy

925
01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:25.399
of the seventh Seal manuscript, which
was complete. They were the seven eighter

926
01:08:25.399 --> 01:08:28.840
throughout it the religious world, if
you will, or you know, the

927
01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:35.159
American Religion Academy Religion. So you
know, David became really excited about writing

928
01:08:35.239 --> 01:08:38.720
down his seven Seals, which she
had never done before. You know,

929
01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:42.079
he actually finished the first Seal on
April eighteenth, and that he came out

930
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:45.920
of the fire. Ruth Riddle brought
it on them disc and so you know,

931
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:47.520
that's proved the FB on another lie. They said he wasn't working on

932
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:51.000
it, that there was a lie, but yet they actually physically had brought

933
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:57.880
it out and was completed the prior
day, so you know. And then

934
01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:00.039
there was a guy name who came
and kind of after the fact, we

935
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:04.560
were talking to a guy named Stewart
Right. He's a professor at Beaumont,

936
01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:13.000
Texas College there and he's got he
was working on critical analysis of FBI actions.

937
01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:15.439
He's done several articles. I have
most of his articles on the website.

938
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:18.680
But one of the articles he says, it's too bad that the government

939
01:09:18.760 --> 01:09:23.119
didn't have a rule book they could
have followed to make sure everyone came out

940
01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:27.319
of the building safely. Well,
it turns out they did, and in

941
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.840
their own rule book he was able
to show where the FBI violated eleven of

942
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:34.520
their own rules. So then when
you think about that for a second,

943
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:39.680
they've already done the research. They
know what psychologically will help get people out

944
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:44.760
of a building in a situation like
this. And instead of remember they want

945
01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:47.439
to save the kids, all of
their words were about we're gonna do whatever

946
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:53.520
taste to get those kids out of
there, right, And yet piece by

947
01:09:53.680 --> 01:10:00.159
piece they come to eleven different eleven
of their own rules and to the exact

948
01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:03.760
opposite of what they should have done
if they wanted to get people out of

949
01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:09.199
the building on eleven on eleven occasions, that's a huge number, man,

950
01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:15.199
you know, Um, that's it
just indicates to me that they didn't want

951
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:19.199
people to come out that psychologically they
wanted to people to stay in. That's

952
01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:24.560
acourting their own actions, That's what
it's. It's very clear that that's what

953
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:30.800
they were doing. Now, there
was a deal struck between the David Kraush,

954
01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:36.520
his lawyer, and the FBI that
whenever he wrote these seven seals down,

955
01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:44.680
then everyone would come out correct.
Yes, yeah, I was.

956
01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:47.239
I can't remember how many, Like
a week before I think they came up

957
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:54.199
with that. He was already starting
the second seal, right, you know,

958
01:10:54.359 --> 01:10:56.800
on the eighteenth, he was getting
ready to start it. And then

959
01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:03.279
they started gassing on the nineteenth.
Now, from your understanding, what was

960
01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:16.159
their explanation and their reasoning for gassing, Milt carmel Um their explanation. They

961
01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:19.800
wanted to get people outlets, they
said, so they started to put in,

962
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:23.720
you know, these ferret rounds of
gas, these forty million meter rounds.

963
01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:27.399
I think they shot like three hundred
or something ferret rounds before they ran

964
01:11:27.479 --> 01:11:31.680
out. What ended up happening as
they had a two days supply of these

965
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:35.000
ferret rounds, and they used the
entire two days supply in like a few

966
01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:40.439
hours. And then they started to
go in and spray the gas directly into

967
01:11:40.439 --> 01:11:43.560
the building. So they ramped everything
up. They did it because they said

968
01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:46.319
we were shooting at their tax,
but we weren't. Nobody I didn't hear

969
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:49.439
anybody shooting the tanks the entire morning. We would have been able to hear

970
01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:54.439
they're pretty loud gunshots, but all
we could hear was the popping noises of

971
01:11:54.479 --> 01:12:00.479
the ferret rounds. But anyway,
they spent everything up, huh, including

972
01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:05.199
coming into the building at the back
with these huge tags and they had these

973
01:12:05.279 --> 01:12:08.600
blades on them. They were coming
and scraped the building. You could hear

974
01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:12.560
the building and shake. It was
crazy. Then the amount of power they

975
01:12:12.680 --> 01:12:15.840
used to destroy this building at the
back. They totally collapsed the gymnasium area.

976
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:19.159
So that's going on. Well,
you know all this is happening.

977
01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:24.880
They would come in and they would
take out pieces of window. They're taking

978
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:28.840
the tact to go through a window, destroy it, make a huge hold

979
01:12:28.880 --> 01:12:31.920
and start springing the cs gas to
spray on a nozzle. And they did

980
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:34.479
that over and over again. Like
I said, they put two days of

981
01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:41.680
gas in less than six hours on
the massive amount of gas. The front

982
01:12:41.720 --> 01:12:44.800
door. They came through the two
front metal doors and pushed them backwards.

983
01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:49.279
There you go. I had to
jump out of the way and not to

984
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:55.840
get hit by that sucker. And
then there's the concrete structure where the kids

985
01:12:55.880 --> 01:12:59.079
were, and that's where that tower
was, right. The tower was the

986
01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:02.279
basis of the crete structure held up
the tower. Well, the tank had

987
01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:05.520
to go all the way through the
building to get to that concrete structure.

988
01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:09.319
They knew people were in there and
they wanted to put a massive amount of

989
01:13:09.399 --> 01:13:14.079
gas in the structure, so they
did. They took the tank halfway in.

990
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:17.199
It says in the logs the driver
had to bring out debris, go

991
01:13:17.399 --> 01:13:20.079
back and get some more to bris
bring it out. So we had to

992
01:13:20.119 --> 01:13:24.479
go in and out of the building
to finally get to the concrete structure where

993
01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:27.439
they put a massive amount of gas
in that area where the kids were.

994
01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:31.039
There's just awesome, man. And
then we got the infrared videotape. There's

995
01:13:31.039 --> 01:13:35.479
a plane flight above a Mount Carmel
about two miles up and on that videotape,

996
01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:40.000
you know we have fully automatic weapons
fire right next to the tank zone.

997
01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:45.439
It's a classic move of someone getting
out of the hatch and the tank

998
01:13:45.119 --> 01:13:48.560
sitting next to the tank and shooting
fully automatic weapons fire into the back of

999
01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:53.560
that building. Two explosions of the
back ze on the flare, which you

1000
01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:57.439
can see on WACO the Rules of
Engagement. Also on my website, there's

1001
01:13:57.479 --> 01:14:03.000
something called the Fleaar Report, as
the government did their own tactical thing where

1002
01:14:03.039 --> 01:14:06.760
they tried to show that it was
sunlight reflection. Right. Well, we

1003
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:15.279
did another clear recreation with experts from
all over the world, and that flear

1004
01:14:15.399 --> 01:14:20.199
recreation, which showed exactly how it
couldn't have been sunlight reflection, was absolutely

1005
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:24.479
fully automatic weapons fire and they were
shooting at the back of the building.

1006
01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:27.880
No, no one will talk about
it, man, none of the none

1007
01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:33.760
of the Yeah, I've worked with
infrared and clear technology through a paranormal investigation,

1008
01:14:33.880 --> 01:14:39.560
and you get absolutely no reflection.
It's impossible to get any reflection from

1009
01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:43.279
any people talk about them. They
weren't even talking about the fleaar. I'm

1010
01:14:43.319 --> 01:14:45.119
the only one. I'm the guy
that talks about it because I guess I

1011
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:46.960
don't care if they kill me or
not. I don't know, man,

1012
01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:53.119
it just it's that's disgusting. No, it was, and I watched that.

1013
01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:57.760
It was unbelievable. And there's also
reports too of a neighbor. I

1014
01:14:57.840 --> 01:15:00.920
think that it was in your book. Might have been in one of the

1015
01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:10.640
documentaries that a neighbor saw supposedly right
twenty to thirty people run out the back

1016
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:16.039
and then they saw FBI people shoot
and kill all of them. I don't

1017
01:15:16.079 --> 01:15:21.479
know. I can't speak to that. I don't think that's everybody right,

1018
01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:27.840
but it's still interesting. And also
there was another rumor, I think it

1019
01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:31.680
might have been in Waco aftermath,
that they were talking about that someone was

1020
01:15:31.720 --> 01:15:34.800
trying to escape and they shot and
killed them or ran them over and then

1021
01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:41.960
threw them back into the fire as
well. I don't know, it's it's

1022
01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:48.520
really ridiculous. And there's a lot
of back and forth of who started the

1023
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:51.880
fires, and I want to get
your opinion on that too, because it's

1024
01:15:51.960 --> 01:15:59.119
a really important and the cover here
is because the FBI say that they didn't

1025
01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.840
start the fires, and there was
all this talk through the media that the

1026
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:06.159
residents of Melt Carmel were arming up
to kill themselves, and then you have

1027
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:12.359
Kathy Schroeder, which turned state witnessed. They talked about that they were handing

1028
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.640
out guns and that the plan was
to kill themselves and blow themselves up with

1029
01:16:15.760 --> 01:16:19.600
a grenade and all this. So
was there any talk of any of that

1030
01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:26.159
that you can remember at all?
Kathy sure left like the third or fourth

1031
01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:29.079
day on or she left really early
on in the seed. She was out,

1032
01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:31.840
so she was not there for the
fifty one day, see the entire

1033
01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:34.920
seed. She has no idea what
the hell was going on there whatsoever?

1034
01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:42.279
You know nobody. Nobody set a
fire in my area. Nobody talked about

1035
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:45.640
it. I'd never saw anybody spread
any fuel period. I'm not saying it

1036
01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:50.239
didn't happen. I know that there's
these these audio bugs, which I have

1037
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:54.680
a problem with the audio because you
can manipulate it, you can cut it

1038
01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:57.920
out. I'll give you an example. They had me standing in front of

1039
01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:00.880
the grand jury and they had had
phones on and they're playing these bugs.

1040
01:17:01.279 --> 01:17:04.000
They give me a piece of paper
to read, and I'm reading the paper

1041
01:17:04.039 --> 01:17:09.000
and the paper says, okay,
puts them there, pours them there,

1042
01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:14.399
They'll cut the power. That's what
it sounded like to me. I'm reading

1043
01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:17.199
it and it's saying set the fire, and I said, I stopped.

1044
01:17:17.199 --> 01:17:19.560
I said, they're not saying cetified. They're saying cut the power. Listen

1045
01:17:19.640 --> 01:17:23.520
to it again. I hadn't played
a five STIPs. Say he's saying cut

1046
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:26.720
the power. He's not saying set
of fire. And the gradual went.

1047
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:29.079
They're rolling their eyes and everything,
but I didn't care. I know what

1048
01:17:29.159 --> 01:17:32.119
I heard that, I know what
I heard, and they want me to

1049
01:17:32.279 --> 01:17:36.079
read what they want me to see
and what you know, what they want

1050
01:17:36.119 --> 01:17:41.279
me to hear, so I'm reading, but I just I didn't. I

1051
01:17:41.439 --> 01:17:45.239
just shut my eyes and listen to
what I felt was being said. And

1052
01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:48.079
that's what it sounded like to me. Now, that was the only audio

1053
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:51.479
that they played for me. I
had heard other audios that had come out

1054
01:17:53.279 --> 01:17:56.800
in different documentaries that they're saying,
pours them here, pours some there,

1055
01:17:57.199 --> 01:18:00.520
and the one I'm thinking of,
they actually said that those recordings took place

1056
01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:08.840
at six am. That's six hours
before the fire. So what I started

1057
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:13.159
to do is again and and I'm
so wake out out you wouldn't believe it,

1058
01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:15.439
man, But I've actually been reading. I'm seriously and it's like it's

1059
01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:21.039
it's a lot. But I've been
reading, sure, no, what I

1060
01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:25.279
mean, reading again and rehashing everything, right, I do it all the

1061
01:18:25.319 --> 01:18:31.319
time. But I've been reading testimony
from the grand jury from people that I

1062
01:18:31.399 --> 01:18:38.640
had never read their testimony before,
right. And you know, apparently at

1063
01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:41.880
the back of the building or the
gymnasium, Mary, there was a discussion

1064
01:18:42.359 --> 01:18:45.079
about the tanks they started to come
into the building, and when that happened,

1065
01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:49.960
there was a discussion between some of
the people back there about about throwing

1066
01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:55.680
a multip cocktail at the tank to
keep the tanks from coming into the building.

1067
01:18:56.479 --> 01:18:59.680
And one of the tapes you can
hear someone say, no, don't

1068
01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:03.479
here port outside, don't poort inside, or don't throw it outside, or

1069
01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:06.600
don't don't throw it outside, don't
throw it inside. So I don't know

1070
01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:12.880
if it's poor set or what they
but the indication is because they're talking about

1071
01:19:12.920 --> 01:19:15.520
trying to keep the tank from coming
into the building. So you know that's

1072
01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:19.800
something that could be taking away at
a context. So do I know for

1073
01:19:19.880 --> 01:19:24.439
sure? No, I did not
see anybody start a fire, light a

1074
01:19:24.479 --> 01:19:28.119
fire, or poor any fuel.
I didn't. As soon as I heard

1075
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:30.359
there was a fire upstairs, I
went up the back. I tried to

1076
01:19:30.399 --> 01:19:34.039
get into the second story because there
was no The total front of the building

1077
01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:39.279
was destroyed. I couldn't get to
the cafeteria area down the hall because of

1078
01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:43.079
the hallway was totally destroyed. So
I figured i'd go up the back.

1079
01:19:43.359 --> 01:19:46.880
I went over the catwalk that led
to the second story hallway. I opened.

1080
01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:51.039
There was a blanket there. I
opened the blanket, A big black

1081
01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:55.399
gust of smoke came at me.
Either step back or let it dissipate.

1082
01:19:55.760 --> 01:19:59.119
After that happened I went to get
my head in the hallway. The wall

1083
01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:00.399
of flame shot down from the left
to the right in front of me.

1084
01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:04.359
It's massive. A wall of flame
was huge. Man, it was like,

1085
01:20:05.439 --> 01:20:08.680
I wouldn't say, a fireball.
It looked like the wind was pushing

1086
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:13.000
the flame down the hall long story
shore him and I know that there was

1087
01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:15.319
no getting in there, so I
came back the way I came, which

1088
01:20:15.399 --> 01:20:19.840
was downstairs. We were between where
the gymnasium and the and the and the

1089
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:25.000
church were, and that's where people
would gathered. Some people were talking about

1090
01:20:25.039 --> 01:20:28.199
going out, others didn't because we
all felt that we were going to be

1091
01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:31.720
shut and we exited. Then I
looked over and I saw Wayne Martin.

1092
01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:36.279
He was leaning against the He's leading
against the wall, took his gas mask

1093
01:20:36.359 --> 01:20:41.279
off and he just kind of slid
down the wall onto his feet. Then

1094
01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:45.079
the smoke just totally covered him.
And when that happened, I could hear

1095
01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:49.880
my hair is singing from the wall
next to me catching fire. So I

1096
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:54.079
looked out and I saw Derek Lovelock
and Jamie Casillo go out of the hole,

1097
01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:57.800
and I followed behind them. I
didn't think anyone can make it out

1098
01:20:57.840 --> 01:21:01.560
behind me. I, you can
get outside. We're a little disoriented,

1099
01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:05.279
and the speaker system was staying go
up to the red Cross sign at the

1100
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:10.840
end of the property. So I
started following Jamie Casio and Derek Lovelock,

1101
01:21:12.479 --> 01:21:15.720
our hands up and we got up
to where the red Cross sign was.

1102
01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:18.119
Well before I got there. About
I turned around, I saw Clive Joel

1103
01:21:18.159 --> 01:21:23.000
coming up behind me. He was
patting his arms up right, so he

1104
01:21:23.159 --> 01:21:25.520
just made it out. I didn't
think anyone would make it out after me.

1105
01:21:26.239 --> 01:21:29.880
I had about fifty yards up between
the Red Cross sign and the building,

1106
01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:32.319
and I turned around. I saw
the building completely engulfed in flame,

1107
01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:36.479
and I saw that huge explosion happened. That was the propane tank that was

1108
01:21:36.600 --> 01:21:45.520
being that was that reached flashpoint exploded, and I remember I could feel the

1109
01:21:45.720 --> 01:21:48.399
flame from the propane tank hit me
from like fifty hundred yards away. I

1110
01:21:48.439 --> 01:21:54.720
was crazy, it was. It
was so hot this crazy experience. Did

1111
01:21:54.800 --> 01:22:01.119
you see any at FBI agents inside
of the building while it was on fire

1112
01:22:01.399 --> 01:22:05.159
at all? I did not see
them inside the building. But I think

1113
01:22:05.359 --> 01:22:10.319
the concern is that it would have
been easy for a tank to have come

1114
01:22:10.520 --> 01:22:14.840
through the gymnasium area and for agents
to have gotten out and have been in

1115
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:17.079
the building. I think that that's
more of a possibility now than I've ever

1116
01:22:17.199 --> 01:22:24.399
did before. I early on,
I instantly, what's the word, I'm

1117
01:22:24.680 --> 01:22:29.359
divorced that from my head as being
just a conspiracy thing. But now the

1118
01:22:29.479 --> 01:22:31.199
more that I think about it,
the more I think that is totally plausible,

1119
01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:34.760
because the tanks did go so far
into the building that it would have

1120
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:38.680
been very easy for one or two
of the agents to have gotten out they

1121
01:22:38.760 --> 01:22:43.920
wanted to for whatever reason. Well, a lot of the residents at Mount

1122
01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:50.239
Carmel were found with gunshot wounds.
Correct, Yeah, many of the autopsies,

1123
01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:54.239
and this has troubled me for many
years. There's a lot of the

1124
01:22:54.319 --> 01:22:59.479
autopsy reports had people shot the center
of their head, in the center of

1125
01:22:59.479 --> 01:23:04.920
their chest, right, and uh
as, I was so disturbed with that.

1126
01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:08.640
Man, It's like, why why
so many? I mean noticed,

1127
01:23:10.319 --> 01:23:18.279
I don't know, it's like it's
been a long time. Well, it

1128
01:23:18.399 --> 01:23:21.159
blew in my mind how many there
were. And then finally what happened was

1129
01:23:21.239 --> 01:23:29.960
I, uh, well, what
happened was I I saw that the rules

1130
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:31.760
of engagement. And when I saw
the rules of engagement, I saw the

1131
01:23:31.880 --> 01:23:35.520
infrared, And then I saw that
the shooters next to the tanks, the

1132
01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:39.479
autopsy report, they all made sense
to me. At that point, I

1133
01:23:39.680 --> 01:23:45.600
finally saw what I didn't want to
see. I didn't even want to believe

1134
01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:48.359
that my government was shooting people,
but the bullet ones instead. I had

1135
01:23:48.439 --> 01:23:51.760
never made it never made a sense
to me until I saw that the infred

1136
01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:55.560
Then it made a lot of sense. I didn't need a let's not for

1137
01:23:55.680 --> 01:24:00.800
yet. Then the second video,
the Wake on Your Revelation, we have

1138
01:24:02.279 --> 01:24:08.960
Mike Nulty goes into the evidence locker
in Austin, Texas and finds all these

1139
01:24:09.079 --> 01:24:15.479
bags there that are labeled silencers.
Those silencers don't actually power technic devices.

1140
01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:18.359
There was like six or seven of
them, and so for three years the

1141
01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:23.800
government said there were no pirotechnics used
in the building whatsoever. There were,

1142
01:24:24.039 --> 01:24:27.560
there's quite a few as six or
seven. Now they say that they were

1143
01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:30.399
all used in the underground shelter,
and that they only used them in the

1144
01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:33.840
underground shelter, and they were shooting
them into the underground shelter. But why

1145
01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:35.880
lie about it for three years?
And then all of a sudden, it's

1146
01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:40.560
only in the underground shelter. Really
it could have been one or two parts

1147
01:24:40.560 --> 01:24:45.279
of the building where the fire started. Of course it could have anyway.

1148
01:24:45.359 --> 01:24:50.439
My point is, listen, once
you lie for years about something, do

1149
01:24:50.520 --> 01:24:55.880
you get credibility. You don't get
your credibility back. You're a fucking liar.

1150
01:24:56.000 --> 01:25:01.159
Man. Then they call me a
liar. It's like, it's yeah,

1151
01:25:01.159 --> 01:25:05.039
I get it's so I get so
disgusted with it. All the producers

1152
01:25:05.119 --> 01:25:11.000
that did that, that newest documentary
on Netflix they have, the FBI called

1153
01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:14.680
me a liar and they don't allow
me to retort on camera. It's it's

1154
01:25:14.800 --> 01:25:18.199
ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's
wrong. They're just yeah, they're just

1155
01:25:18.279 --> 01:25:21.920
trying to just credit anyone that saw
anything at all. And you know,

1156
01:25:23.359 --> 01:25:26.520
I really thought they were good filmmakers. I thought they were going to do

1157
01:25:26.720 --> 01:25:30.760
some kind of defendant and they nothing
was complete, a complete well, it

1158
01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:33.399
was just the white wash. It's
just there's so much they didn't talk about.

1159
01:25:33.399 --> 01:25:35.119
I didn't talk about the c S
gas, they didn't talk about the

1160
01:25:35.159 --> 01:25:38.640
front doors, they didn't talk about
who shot first, they didn't talk about

1161
01:25:38.640 --> 01:25:43.920
the helicopters firing, they didn't talk
about the the the cs gas and what

1162
01:25:44.159 --> 01:25:48.000
that is they didn't talk about the
flear tape. Jezum. I mean,

1163
01:25:48.079 --> 01:25:53.159
how can you do a documentary and
not talk about the most important aspects of

1164
01:25:53.239 --> 01:25:58.720
the entire thing. It's it's world
history, it's American history, and if

1165
01:25:58.760 --> 01:26:02.039
we don't get it right, then
we allow this to happen again and again

1166
01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:05.520
and again to ourselves. And every
citizen on the side of my voice should

1167
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:14.279
be outraged about this. Yeah,
it's a very It's disgusting, is really

1168
01:26:14.359 --> 01:26:20.640
what it is. And I don't
understand how the FBI thought that flooding a

1169
01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:27.680
building with cus gas was going to
make the people in the building come out

1170
01:26:27.840 --> 01:26:30.840
like. Cus gas is very poisonous
and hazardous to people and should never be

1171
01:26:31.079 --> 01:26:36.760
used indoors. And every time almost
I can't think of the instances, but

1172
01:26:36.880 --> 01:26:42.760
I researched it and looked it up. But every single time the cus gas

1173
01:26:42.960 --> 01:26:48.199
has been used on an indoor area
has always led to a fire every time.

1174
01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:51.239
Well, it's a rant control agent, it says, even in some

1175
01:26:51.479 --> 01:26:59.199
manufactured but the manufacturing notebook on it
says used only outside the rant control situation,

1176
01:26:59.319 --> 01:27:03.079
never indoors. It can be detrimental
to people with small respiratory tracts like

1177
01:27:03.239 --> 01:27:08.600
kids and women especially, only use
it indoors never, I mean only use

1178
01:27:08.600 --> 01:27:11.600
it outdoors, never indoors. And
then yeah, you're right, I mean

1179
01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:14.199
there's all it's also a powder.
You know, when you think about a

1180
01:27:14.560 --> 01:27:16.439
grain silo, right, you got
all those sub atomic particles, and that's

1181
01:27:16.479 --> 01:27:19.760
why sometimes grain silo when it goes
up, it's like a big fireball.

1182
01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:26.600
It's because they sub atomic particles and
it causes a fusion, a flash,

1183
01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:29.760
a flash fire kind of thing.
The same deal with CS gas. It's

1184
01:27:29.760 --> 01:27:32.399
almost the same as it's like a
little powder. Minute it's all over the

1185
01:27:32.479 --> 01:27:35.840
building, it's everywhere. So it's
like, you know, it's no wonder

1186
01:27:35.920 --> 01:27:40.000
that not only me, not only
did I see a fireball go down the

1187
01:27:40.079 --> 01:27:44.039
front of the building, but Derek
love Walk at the back, said that

1188
01:27:44.239 --> 01:27:46.800
he saw it go through. There
was another catwalk area that was enclosed and

1189
01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:51.239
when when they destroyed that level that
to the ground with two explosions. At

1190
01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:56.279
the back of the cat walk,
he said he saw a fireball go all

1191
01:27:56.319 --> 01:28:00.920
the way up to the second story
and he why that happened. So he

1192
01:28:00.000 --> 01:28:06.319
started from the back and I started
from the front. Yeah, and here's

1193
01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:13.760
the the I think the one of
the biggest questions of all is what valid

1194
01:28:13.960 --> 01:28:25.000
reasons apart from frustration and impatience did
the ATF and the FBI and the authorities

1195
01:28:25.079 --> 01:28:31.800
in Washington Janet Reno have for wiping
out Mount Carmel and all of his residents,

1196
01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:40.880
other than I personally believe to cover
up their own actions. That's the

1197
01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:45.920
way that it all seems to be
shaping up is to cover up the crimes

1198
01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:48.760
that they done. From the very
beginning, it was to burn it down.

1199
01:28:49.359 --> 01:28:53.520
Yeah, I love this quote.
I'd say it all the time,

1200
01:28:53.920 --> 01:28:57.680
and probably I think I should do
a little more study and try to come

1201
01:28:57.760 --> 01:28:59.960
up without other quote, because I
just use this one all the time.

1202
01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:04.199
The Senator Henry Clays in the eighteen
hundred the Devices of Power and its minions

1203
01:29:04.479 --> 01:29:09.439
the same in all countries and in
all ages. At first, it marks

1204
01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:15.640
its victim and denounces it, exciting
the public hatred to conceal its own abuses

1205
01:29:15.640 --> 01:29:20.000
and encroachments eighteen hundreds. He said
that, so this is, you know,

1206
01:29:20.039 --> 01:29:24.560
as a tactic as all as time, you want to demonize the person

1207
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:27.359
that you're going to go after.
You want to accuse them of doing the

1208
01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:30.319
things you're doing. So people aren't
looking at what you're doing, but they're

1209
01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:35.039
looking at what they're doing. That's
what's happening again with all these books and

1210
01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:40.359
everything that's coming out. When you
hear about David Koresh, now it is

1211
01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:46.279
all about under age wise, It's
all about That's all they talk about is

1212
01:29:46.319 --> 01:29:48.800
over and over and over what a
terrible person he was. He did this

1213
01:29:48.920 --> 01:29:53.840
is because that's all they have.
The evidence. When you stack it up,

1214
01:29:53.920 --> 01:29:57.920
it's so stacked against them. It's
it's awesome. It's like a mountain

1215
01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:02.079
of a incredible things that they have
done. And a lot of these people

1216
01:30:02.119 --> 01:30:05.680
that are in power, we're on
Jeffrey Epstein's playing let's face it, so

1217
01:30:06.279 --> 01:30:13.520
you know, you know you want
to talk about pedophilia. This has proven

1218
01:30:13.600 --> 01:30:18.159
with it's it's like the same tactics
these people used trying to use. You

1219
01:30:18.279 --> 01:30:24.560
know, it's ultimate hypocrisy. But
nonetheless, just don't be deceived. And

1220
01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:30.439
I'm not saying David Kresh was a
freaking saint. Like I said earlier,

1221
01:30:30.279 --> 01:30:33.159
I wish that he would have gone
to trial, and I wished that for

1222
01:30:34.319 --> 01:30:39.640
those that claim that were victimized by
him, I wish that they would have

1223
01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:42.720
had their day, of course I
do. I wish that David would have

1224
01:30:42.760 --> 01:30:46.720
stood for his crimes, but he
wasn't. He was denied that, and

1225
01:30:47.079 --> 01:30:53.239
you know, long, it's just
there's so much more to it. Man.

1226
01:30:54.239 --> 01:30:57.760
It's never been fair. It's always
been very one sided. So that's

1227
01:30:57.800 --> 01:31:01.439
it. I'm just going to keep
telling the story, keep getting older.

1228
01:31:01.479 --> 01:31:06.479
I don't feel like I have much
longer to go, But it doesn't matter.

1229
01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:13.880
It's the truth. Is the truth
that it's It's this stuff. If

1230
01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:17.640
you're spiritual at all, and I
am, This STEP's recorded on a giant

1231
01:31:17.760 --> 01:31:23.880
camera somewhere that we can't see.
It's on a totally different cloud, and

1232
01:31:23.880 --> 01:31:27.439
a universal cloud has nothing to do
with anything on the earth. And I

1233
01:31:27.600 --> 01:31:30.359
don't think anyone's going to get away
with their lives or their crimes. I

1234
01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:33.439
think it's all going to come out
in the wash. I believe that.

1235
01:31:33.520 --> 01:31:38.439
I've always believed in a judgment.
I don't think we get away with our

1236
01:31:38.479 --> 01:31:41.760
deepest, darkest secrets. I think
it's all going to come out. So

1237
01:31:42.039 --> 01:31:45.800
it's just a matter of that time, you know, when we when we

1238
01:31:45.960 --> 01:31:49.560
put off this flesh uniform and become
an energy with the universe. I think

1239
01:31:49.600 --> 01:31:55.600
all things will be known. And
I actually pray for some of the FBI

1240
01:31:55.680 --> 01:32:00.520
guys and ATF guys for their lives
to the American people on that day because

1241
01:32:00.560 --> 01:32:05.439
they're they're not serving anyone by lying
about it. And I always like to

1242
01:32:05.560 --> 01:32:10.479
end like podcasts and stuff, you
know, I encourage people to go and

1243
01:32:10.600 --> 01:32:15.520
learn more from my website and to
look into things for themselves. Definitely,

1244
01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:24.279
but also if there is a Special
Forces guy or an FBI guy, or

1245
01:32:24.359 --> 01:32:27.560
someone that was involved in that battle
at the back of the building, someone

1246
01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:30.560
who was shooting into the building,
maybe some of the drove of the tank,

1247
01:32:30.920 --> 01:32:34.800
someone that knows what happened back there. Times running out, man,

1248
01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:42.680
you only got your lifetime. There's
a deathbed confession, but at some point

1249
01:32:42.800 --> 01:32:45.439
it's got to come out, and
someone has got to come forward and say,

1250
01:32:45.560 --> 01:32:47.399
yeah, this is what happened back
there. And I know you're out

1251
01:32:47.439 --> 01:32:51.159
there, and I hope you do
the right thing and unburden yourself before you

1252
01:32:51.319 --> 01:32:57.079
die, because you're gonna die.
We're all getting a lot older. Byron

1253
01:32:57.199 --> 01:33:00.479
Sage just died last year or the
year before. You know, Clive Doyle

1254
01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:04.439
died last year. Both sides you're
diing out, so you know, you

1255
01:33:04.479 --> 01:33:10.159
only have one chance to tell the
truth before it's over. Would you die

1256
01:33:10.479 --> 01:33:15.680
for the truth? Typidel, I
would have when I walked out of that.

1257
01:33:15.079 --> 01:33:17.039
When I waked out of building,
I thought I was going to be

1258
01:33:17.079 --> 01:33:21.960
shot. I did not think that
I was going to be survive. Would

1259
01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:27.439
you kill for the truth? No, I was never willing to kill anyone.

1260
01:33:27.800 --> 01:33:30.239
I want to go through and believe
me, there's some people that I've

1261
01:33:30.279 --> 01:33:32.600
met in life that I think deserve
to not be suck in there because they're

1262
01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:36.680
terrible human beings. I have met
some terrible human beings and all they do

1263
01:33:36.880 --> 01:33:43.079
is cause pain for other people.
And I almost wish there was a more

1264
01:33:43.159 --> 01:33:46.880
direct camera or something like that,
because you know, to see someone who

1265
01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:50.920
damaged and like I'm not going to
mention any names, but to see the

1266
01:33:51.079 --> 01:33:56.039
kind of evil people. I met
more saints than I have evil people,

1267
01:33:56.079 --> 01:33:59.439
but I've seen some meet very evil
people. I just to know they heat

1268
01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:02.439
going on causing more pain over and
over again, and somehow they get away

1269
01:34:02.479 --> 01:34:04.600
with it. It's it's an awesome
thing. Well, you get a lot

1270
01:34:04.640 --> 01:34:09.760
of you get a lot of sociopaths
in power because they will they seek that

1271
01:34:09.880 --> 01:34:12.920
kind of thing out and they just
don't care about you. They don't care

1272
01:34:12.960 --> 01:34:16.680
about anyone, and they just don't
care about you, your family or any

1273
01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:19.399
of it. And putting the round
position of power, they can do a

1274
01:34:19.479 --> 01:34:23.680
great deal of damage. But you
know the truth is that's up to God

1275
01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:28.399
is going to have to sort all
of that out. I have no desire

1276
01:34:28.439 --> 01:34:30.920
to have that on my soul.
I would not want to be one of

1277
01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:34.840
those guys that was in the firefight
at the back of the building FBI or

1278
01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:38.920
ATF or whatever. You know.
Some people are john differently, some people

1279
01:34:38.920 --> 01:34:43.399
are meant to be warriors. I
don't want that on my soul. Thanks

1280
01:34:43.439 --> 01:34:46.439
so much, David, appreciate your
time this evening. Let people very much

1281
01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:48.720
enjoyed the conversation. I hope you
enjoyed it too, and I hope everyone

1282
01:34:48.800 --> 01:34:54.439
watching really enjoyed it as well.
Let everyone know where they can plug your

1283
01:34:54.479 --> 01:34:57.840
website for everyone to check out,
or anything else that you would like to

1284
01:34:57.880 --> 01:35:01.000
plug, any documentaries, anyone that's
more interested in looking into the events.

1285
01:35:01.279 --> 01:35:06.399
We already mentioned the Waco documentary Rules
of engagement on just your sure time to

1286
01:35:06.560 --> 01:35:11.680
plug whatever you want to plug.
Brother, I'll just Waco Survivors dot COM's

1287
01:35:11.760 --> 01:35:15.000
my website. I have books on
there. If you get them through the

1288
01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:18.520
set, I'll sign them to you. I also have access to some of

1289
01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:21.239
the DDDs, the WACO, the
Rules of Engagement, and WAKEO a New

1290
01:35:21.399 --> 01:35:25.840
Relation which is kind of hard to
find. But these are all streaming out

1291
01:35:25.880 --> 01:35:29.159
there too. You can find them. It's not easy. I think there's

1292
01:35:29.159 --> 01:35:33.439
a link to Sarah. I have
a link on my site to to Sarah's

1293
01:35:33.520 --> 01:35:39.560
website. We can my her book
about Ruby Ridge and what happened to her

1294
01:35:40.439 --> 01:35:44.560
and her family, you know,
the Randy Weaver, Sarah Weaver. So

1295
01:35:44.720 --> 01:35:46.640
you know, there's amazing information on
there, to a lot of interviews.

1296
01:35:46.680 --> 01:35:50.720
We've got a lot of pictures.
I get the Flair projects on there,

1297
01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:55.800
and I don't have the thirtieth Memorial
yet. I get to get the thirtiesth

1298
01:35:55.840 --> 01:35:58.199
Memorial on there, but I think
there's links to it, and you get

1299
01:35:58.239 --> 01:36:01.880
it through Kathy Wessinger's page, which
is all like through the same But it's

1300
01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:06.000
a great source of information, a
lot of most of history information. So

1301
01:36:06.319 --> 01:36:11.520
there's all kinds of stuff. You
know, there's thirtieth Memorial shirts things like

1302
01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:16.119
that too. But I love it
as a resource. A lot of people

1303
01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:19.159
want to know what was David Krush
teaching when we have some of his tapes

1304
01:36:19.199 --> 01:36:23.199
from the eighties on there. And
I just want to make this very clear.

1305
01:36:23.199 --> 01:36:28.920
I'm not trying to prosealyze or get
start a movement or It's nothing like

1306
01:36:29.079 --> 01:36:32.960
that. Anything I have up on
my side is for historical reasons. I

1307
01:36:33.119 --> 01:36:38.560
just don't want people to go around
saying the Crush is just an insane lunatic

1308
01:36:38.680 --> 01:36:42.760
and the people to follow him were
nuts. He actually did have a message.

1309
01:36:43.079 --> 01:36:45.159
It was a lot deeper than people
want to give a credit for.

1310
01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:49.079
And I just make those tapes available
so people can see it's more. But

1311
01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:55.439
I'm not interested in getting your tithes. I'm not interested in starting a group,

1312
01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:59.840
nothing like that. That's just not
It's all purely historical to me.

1313
01:37:00.479 --> 01:37:04.479
Yes, and I recommend anybody check
that out. The links to all of

1314
01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:10.840
David's information will be in the description
of this video. I highly recommend his

1315
01:37:11.039 --> 01:37:17.119
book Awakeoes Survivor Story by David Thibodeaux. And yeah, thanks so much for

1316
01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:20.319
coming on, brother, I really
appreciate your time this evening. For everyone

1317
01:37:20.399 --> 01:37:24.199
else, thanks for watching and listening. Much love to everyone in the chap

1318
01:37:24.239 --> 01:37:27.199
Please be sure to hit the thumbs
up button to help the channel in the

1319
01:37:27.199 --> 01:37:30.079
algorithms, Share, subscribe and hit
the bellocon as well. And remember we're

1320
01:37:30.119 --> 01:37:33.600
not only in a spiritual war,
but a war on humanity. Stay aware

1321
01:37:33.600 --> 01:37:36.199
and stay alert, keep loving your
heart for everyone, Stay safe out there,

1322
01:37:36.680 --> 01:37:40.359
and if you can see through the
illusion, you are the solution.

1323
01:37:40.520 --> 01:38:00.560
So you guys, next time.
Three