We'll back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emilydianski, culture
editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show at
radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST.
Make sure subscribe wherever you download your podcasts into the premium version of our website
as well. I'm very excited about today's guest, the one and only Thomas
Pack. He is the director of the Incubator program over at Palladium Pictures.
You can find out more about Palladium Pictures dot com. But first let's have
Thomas tell us all about Palladium Pictures because it's sort of the reason for this
conversation. It's a really fascinating project. You guys are doing important, interesting
work. Tell us about it right off the bat here. Sure. Yeah,
So, first off, thanks for having me. I can hear it
in my ear already, have a good podcast, Willys. Yeah, Well,
thanks for having me. So I worked for my family business, so
playing pictures of new business. But we've had other company for a very long
time, over forty years called Manifold Productions. We'll make documentary films. Our
most recent one was this film about Clarence Thomas called Created Equal Clarence Thomas in
his own words, Washington Amazon. We think it's great. But your father
was on this podcast to talk about it. Some people might remember that episode.
Michael Pack, he's been on a couple of times. That's right.
My father's Michael Pack. He's our producer director. My mother's also in the
business as an executive producer. So it's really a family affair. But look,
we've been making documentaries for a very long time and sort of in examining
the landscape of film right now, we're we're sort of unhappy with, you
know, the way the system is built. I mean, there's really quite
a lot of infrastructure on the left film. You know, we just sort
of treat Hollywood without even thinking about it, like it's just one big left
leaning institution. It's made up of a lot of left leaning institutions. It's
there's all of film school is sort of is left leaning, all of you
know, other incubator programs like Mind the Left as many of them, all
of the film festivals and the streaming platforms, and you work your way through
this ecosystem and they cultivate talent and people come up and they are successful and
then they end up making great films that impact the culture, and who complain
them? That's like what they should be doing. That's what That's what you
know, anyone would want to do, and such an ecosystem needs to exist
on the right, we feel, so this is the first step in that
process in a way. So, uh, incubator program is really you know,
to try to do to do some career launching and also to cultivate talent.
Right, that's so interesting, And maybe even take a step back here
and explain what an incubator is. I feel like it's sort of industry jargon
or some people might know it from Silicon Valley that a lot of incubators over
there. So what is the kind of like concrete existence of the incubator.
It's yeah, it's industry. I think it's cross industry jargon. I think
it's industry jargon. Right, Fellowship is another one of these words. It
like could mean like any number of things, and so yeah, it's a
it's a meaningless phrase, but I'll tell you what I mean what this one
does. So our our incubator basically is, you know, learn by doing
kind of programs. So where people will apply to it with an idea for
a short documentary. If they're accepted, we will fully fund the documentary and
then they will be on their own to make it. These are ten to
fifteen minute docs, and we're looking for people that know how to make a
film. You have to in your application demonstrate to us that you can put
together a crew and produce a film, because we're funding these things and we're
investing in you. So it's at that level. It's not just for people
with an idea or people that are like in film school. It's it's it's
for people that are trying to become director, producers and people that want are
interesting documentary and are sort of have a right of center topics that they're interested
in. You know, we're talking about topics at the mainstream media is ignoring
of which you know, there's a lot of good ones, you know,
unfortunate for America, fortunate maybe for filmmakers. But yes, we'll fully fund
the film. We will then executive produce it, so they'll get mentorship from
Michael Pack who's our director producer, who has a lot of experience having produced
you know, over fifteen films, all of which we're broadcast nationally on PBS,
so mentorship funding, and then the final thing is distribution will make sure
to get the film out there so lots of people see it, and so
that I mean, it's a great opportunity for people that are looking for that
career springboard. You get, uh, you know, your film. You
don't have to worry about funding and distribution. You don't have to make the
film that people are paying you to make. This is the film that you
get to make your way. You get to you know, you know,
learn from us, get a sense of like what we mean by storytelling and
documentary, and you get to at the end of it, have a film
that lots of people have seen it and it and you'll have your proof of
concept going forward to make more long form stuff or anything after that. And
the term incubator actually really like because I think it's getting at what you were
saying about the infrastructure. It's the very literal definition to incubate in some sense
is to start building up the early infrastructure, because if there's not an on
ramp, you're just sort of expecting people with right of center ideas who whose
ideas, by the way, will be wildly unwelcome as you know better than
anyone at mainstream studios and distributors, and this is not going anywhere. You
can make the film, package it up perfectly and give it to a distributor,
they're going to laugh you out of the film festival or whatever it is
if it comes from a conservative slant. In some cases, there's no if
there's no on ramp, you're asking people to do that rare thing where they
like Evil Knievel onto the freeway from a cliff, Like, it's just not
there. Can you speak to that a little bit? What it looks like
if you're you know, if you have maybe right of center ideas versus if
you're somebody who's just your your average liberal filmmaker who wants to you know,
get a criminal justice documentary on Netflix. Well yeah, I mean I think,
I mean, yeah, so as with the with the just to riff
off your incubator point, Yeah, So we're incubating these short films, meaning
we're taking that we're sort of growing them into something. And but I think
further than that, we're actually incubating the beginning of this same ecosystem that the
left sort that left has. This is step one. So I feel like
you know, someone gave us funding to create an entire film school tomorrow,
we couldn't do it. We'd have to give it back. I mean,
there just aren't enough talented people that view themselves on the right that want to,
you know, learn about film, and there aren't enough professors. I
mean, we're just not there yet. So in a sense, this is
a very modest project compared to the size of the real project, which is
that the landscape is really bad right now. And you know, you can,
you can do a lot of things to try to impact the culture,
and you can create your own new streaming sites and uh, you can you
know, boycott certain films and try to see others. But at the end
of the day, we have to have good stuff coming out. And so
this is there's not a lot of even training programs or places where people can
get better or you know, career launchers that can you know, amplify people
that are good that are trying to be seen and you know, I mean
it's just it's tough out there in the in the world of film. I
don't know, maybe I forgot your your actual question. No, know,
that's exactly what. It's also a technical skill, which I was in my
head drawing parallels with journalism, where I was going to ask, you know,
there's some advantages, which of course there are, but in the sense
of like when you skip over the film school thing, it reminds me of
you know, people skipping over the J school thing. You can do that
and in some way, in some ways, it's going to give you an
advantage. You're not going to come with all of the ideological baggage and some
of the you know, conventional wisdom that maybe deserves to be thrown out the
window. On the other hand, you do need the technical knowledge of how
to keep on the journalism example, file a foil request, write a lead,
do all of these things. And on the filmmaking side, it seems
to like that's probably the I feel right now. There are a lot of
energetic, artistic, artistic, creative people on the right, but the technical
skill set is such an important one and there's never really been a way for
them to develop. Not right. I mean, you might know this better
than me. I don't have a strong sense that much is learned in J
school. But I don't know no s no, nope, maybe how to
use like Adobe, yeah, sure, But I think film school. You're
right, there's a lot of technical stuff that happens there. I also think
that, you know, film is brutal, and especially Hollywood. I mean
we're on the documentary side, the narrative side much harder. And it helps
to be in film school and then to meet film professors that were in the
industry in Hollywood and they pick the best and the brightest. It's a network.
It's a network, and I think that network effect is also crucial,
and we're building that out too as part of this. And you can't really
make it without it. I mean otherwise, what like say you're talented and
you do have all the technical skills, and then you make your short doc
and then what it sits on your website? Like who's going to how who's
going to believe in you and fund you? And I mean people. There's
a system for this in film, and it's tough to make. But the
really good people rise to the top and they get shepherded along. And you
know, you can learn from Robert Redford and those Sun Dance They have all
this stuff. We just don't have it so alive. It is technical,
it's true, but also some of it is just that we need to attempt.
I mean, we need to make put some fraction of the amount of
effort into this actual cultivating knowledge that that the left just automatically does. I
mean, we're not even fighting. We've just seated them Hollywood, which is
the same thing as seating them, you know, control of the culture.
Yeah. Absolutely. You know we've said something earlier about how you know,
the reason people put documentaries to the world is to change the culture, and
you said, you know, that's what anyone would want to do. And
I can just in my head here, you know, old school people saying,
well, of course it's art for art's sake. You know, you're
not it shouldn't be what they would pejoratively refer to as propaganda with this very
broad definition of what constitutes propaganda. And of course I think we're in agreement
that that's wrong. I mean, we don't do, for instance, journalism,
you don't break news to just have it out there so people can shrug
at it. Obviously, there's utility to engaging in the sort of conversation,
the discourse and the exchange of ideas. So is it do you feel that
the right that has engaged in the space before has sort of veered into the
propaganda lane. What is how do you as a filmmaker, A is it
hard to make that distinction when you're getting pitches and when you're looking at what
else is put out there? And be how people maybe think about that as
filmmakers. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think this idea that
everything's downstream of culture is pretty intuitive to most people. And it's true,
you know, art for art's sake is great, but it is also true
that a lot of people watch movies and are affected by movies. And so
you know, the key to effect, to affecting culture is and I mean
there's easy examples here. Look at you know, just how abortion is portrayed
in in film over the past couple of decades, and how that's affected just
the American zeitgeist about you know, just normalizing it or you know, Will
and Grace, Yeah, sure, Will and Grace did more for you know,
the gay rights movement than you know any Elton John. Yeah, Elton
John's another great example actually of affecting the culture, but more than like Barney
Frank, right, yeah, truly, yeah, anyone in those sort of
political arena, right, sure, So this is this stuff is really clear.
You have to be good first. You have to just make the films
that people want to make, and I think there's a lot of impulses.
The infrastructure we do have on the right although great, and there's lots of
great stuff coming out, but a lot of it sort of points in the
direction of making the quick hits stuff and making your point. But really better
is to is to make an actual impact on how people think about things.
You know. With our most recent film, which is our documentary about Clarence
Thomas, we tell his life story from his perspective. And the great thing
about that film was a lot of our left leaning friends said, you know,
well, I hate his jurisprudence, but you know, I mean,
now he's a human to me, I understand him, and it's a compelling
He's an amazing American story of like coming up from poverty, and so people
were just affected by it. You know. I also think that I mean
that sort of in the case of documentary, it's also a little different because
you are you really need to just like you and journal and it's journalism really,
so it's the same type thing. We have to tell the whole truth.
But there are topics that conservers are more interested in, and especially now,
there are topics that are just not being subjects, are just not being
talked about or told, and often those are the juiciest stories. So I
think I think that that's that's another thing that will that impacts the culture is
just that you can kind of break free from the mainstream media's like stranglehold on
what the overton windows should be by just telling the truth. Cold turkey great
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tough questions as you see in the Clarence Thomas film. There's no shying away
from the toughest questions from asking him about the hardest moments of his life.
And to your point about how the stories that aren't told are often the juicist
I mean, the story of Clarence Thomas's life and the story of different moments
chapters in the Clarence Thomas book. The fact that those have just been sitting
on the table for so long was the best opportunity for you guys to come
in and just knock it out of the park. And there has to be,
as somebody who's looking at this right now, all kinds of different stuff.
I mean, I imagine your head spinds reels with the possibilities sometimes.
Yeah, I mean it's true, there's just you know, there's there's more
options, I think, which is great, and there's a lot that the
stories that aren't being told are more fun to listen to to watch. And
also I think on the sort of narrative side too, it's like it's just
true that the the conservative perspective is just more intuitively appealing because that's the pro
American perspective, that's the pro individualism. These are great storytelling tropes that people
identify with and people don't really like the Grievance study, you know, focus
on that the left has and we're seeing it impact streaming services, impact ticket
sales, Like people are kind of less and less interested in the left leaning
narrative. I think the right leaning narrative wins out if if we are willing
to compete and spend a fraction of what they spend on film and culture,
you know, I think it's I think it's better. I think we were
lucky with this Clarence Thomas film that he has many arcs to his life story
not all of us have. That. He is like a couple of you
know, rising moments, and he had a great story. And then also
he is a great narrative narrator of his own life, and he gave us
a lot of time. So very fortunate in that way that it sort of
all came together. Talking about a good podcast voice. If Clarence Thomas host
any if he did like talk radio or podcasting, people could do ASMR through.
Yeah, Clarence, He's got a great laugh too, which is really
the sort of selling play. The best thing I think about talking at him
belly laugh. Yeah, that definitely came through in the film. I want
to hear more about the pool of talent, because I imagine so the networking
point you made is really interesting, and there are some people on the right
who have just sort of tossed their hands up. This was the line I
think all the time over the last twenty years, before Trump especially, but
over the last twenty to thirty years, it was like, well, conservatives
aren't naturally inclined towards art. You probably heard that a lot right, like,
conservatives aren't activists, they're not hippies, they're not artists, so they're
always going to have a disadvantage in that space. Now, I don't know
that I buy into that, and I'm curious for your thoughts, Thomas.
In addition to the infrastructure pipeline challenges, what are some of the biggest Why
is it outside of that? And maybe maybe there isn't a good reason outside
of that, but but why is it outside of that? It's there just
aren't that many talented conservative filmmakers. And I say that with also the context
of early Hollywood. You know that the code was voluntary, and those there
were you know what people today would consider propaganda films that I think hold up
as excellent films that were just patriotic, wonderful stories, well acted, well
shot, and there was a totally I mean talk about conservative artists. Sorry
kind of aut capra. I mean it was there at a time, it
went away. What's going on, Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
I'm curious to hear what you think. I mean, I understand that
there's an argument that there's just natural talent, just how like you know,
liberal people are more likely to start companies and conserves more likely to run companies.
Maybe there's a more creativity on the left. People would argue that's not
impossible. In my mind, you know, we can't really know until we're
actually trying to compete and spending like they spend in cultivating talents. That seems
to be the reason we're losing. I mean, there's a there's a really
long history of conservatives in the arts. You made that point. It goes
back all the way to you know, Michelangelo, And I mean there's so
many great conservative artists, and there's a great history of patronage of the arts
in among conservatives which continues to this day in the opera and the ballet,
and I mean, we care about the arts on the right. We want
to preserve great, we care about beauty, care about aesthetics. I mean,
that's always been actually conservative values. So I don't know, we'm I
think I sort of reject this idea that conservs are less creative. I think
in the film world, if you are conservative minded, even if you're not
afraid to speak out or anything, I don't really blame you for wanting to
be somewhere that is just like a political because that's more interesting stuff is probably
happening there. We need to create opportunities for people that are creative to see
this as like a reasonable path to go and to like, you know,
express themselves artistically. I don't know. I mean it's possible that at the
end of the day, you know, we have less creativity, but I
really doubt it. And so our ideas like we'll start spinning the flywheel.
We'll have a couple of people come out of this, and we'll do it
every single year. There'll be more and more, and you can show you
proved to this sort of conservative donor class that may be holding off on donate
because they believe this thing that you say that like there's no talent, and
prove that there is talent and that good stuff can happen, and that film
effects culture, and then the fly will will spin further from there, and
then there'll be more investments and more great stuff, and then we'll say,
well, then we'll sort of see who does have more talent? You know.
Yeah, I say we're as I was listening to it was like,
yeah, we're actually like literally here it. Yeah. For there's pictures,
there's posters or Ronald Reagan all over the wall, right the film posters that
we actually have one that that really it's not a it's not a Reagan poster.
It's one that a critic made where they photoshopped President Reagan and Margaret Thatcher
onto the Gone with the Wind to the iconic Gone with the Wind poster and
a way to sort of criticize. Somebody loved it so much that he actually
hung it up. It's a wonderful poster. But that's such an anomaly that
era in American history to me. I just it feels like an anomaly to
me because growing up in the twenty nineties, the two thousands, twenty and
twenty first century, it's just ingrained in us that artists are liberals. It's
almost synonymous. And I wonder if that's because the evolution of mass media allowed
for middle brow and arguably even like lowbrow art to flourish in a way that
it really never could before. And conservatives have always been concentrated in the highbrow
and as you were saying, the operas and the ballets, but just being
able to tell an accessible, beautiful true story in documentary format, that's just
it's a space that conservators naturally should be in. And maybe then it was
just a twenty year pause, and now that the documentary boom is upon us,
you guys will be able to reap a whirlwind of wonderful, talented conservative
filmmakers. Yeah. I mean there's a real renaissance happening in documentary right now.
Everybody's amazing. It's perfect for streaming, and so that's why I think,
or that's part of why. I mean, you know, nonfiction in
general, it's like most most film jobs are in nonfiction. There's only so
many Hollywood jobs and a lot of people do commercial or or you know,
corporate stuff for you know, all sorts of different work for higher nonfiction.
And so yeah, I mean, there's a there's a boom upon us,
and things are shaking up in the world of film. You know, there's
like there's something seems to be hollow in Hollywood. That is meaning some of
these streaming services are buckling, and then new things are happening, you know,
like with Angel Studios that has a different model and put out Sound of
Freedom and Chosen and other things. So maybe there is this is a moment.
It is true to your point that you know, Reagan did understand this
stuff about the culture, and so often people you know, in order to
win and you almost always need to and the great, great conservative people tend
to really understand that. Buckley did too. Another yaff you know, face
of yaff. There's a whole Buckley room here. I can show you it
every book William F. Buckley wrote on one shelf that is that is wonderful.
The ms you guys are really great actually at yaff about you know,
both Buckley and Reagan and saluting them very consistently, which I appreciate well,
But they're also you know, that's another to make another point about the stories
that are being told. Ronald Reagan's story is incredible. William of buckley story
is incredible. I mean, how many people know about what William F.
Buckley was doing in Mexico. Not many, and it's because I think there's
just nobody around to tell the truth of either of those stories. And so
you get these because there are a lot of conservers in the industry, because
the industry blocks them out and for whatever reason that we've we've discussed here,
the industry is not going to tell those stories in an interesting way. They
just made a Reagan. It was like showtime they did something, and I
know there's a Reagan. We've been coming out with Dennis Quaid, which seems
fantastic, so maybe that'll be a rare bright spot. But these are just
incredible stories and there's so many of those on the table for the taking.
Are you able to tease a little bit about stuff that you guys are looking
at or is it is a kind of confidential proprietary I can tease it a
little bit, but I mean, you know, the the uh, you
know, the bottom line is, you know, Palladium Pictures, a new
company, is going to produce more film and we're sort of committed to the
other side of this. So there's the incubator, but we we as a
film company, have to have to do more as well. I mean we've
been We've done over fifteen films through our other company, Manifold Productions. But
like, in order for this stuff to work, if we part of the
ecosystem we're making, so we have to be creating talent and creating work and
creating creating the market for it and putting out stuff. So I think there's
a lot coming in over the next couple of years. But this you know,
we're working on a couple short documentaries with a major news outlet that is
coming up, and those will be out. You know, those will be
exciting. And we have a we're going to have a long form film that's
going to deal with some of these events that happened in Seattle after the George
Floyd Riots, talking to all sides and getting the whole story of you know,
kind of a weird event that is not really being well was not really
well covered actually by either side. So we're doing all that and you know,
I mean follow along with because I think a lot will come from play
in pictures to follow in social media and you know, you know it'll be
it'll be more films than we're used to doing and coming out faster. I
love that, and I Actually that is such a perfect example what happened in
Seattle of stories that are just left on the table to be told beautifully and
in a way that actually helps people better understand empathize with. You said something
interesting and without obviously asking for too many details. You mentioned that it's a
story that actually neither side really got right, that there's a lot more probably
nuance, and I imagine I've been looking into the story really closely. When
that story is more as you like, pull back layers and you start to
see it more clearly for what it was. Is there something big you think
the right got wrong about not just that story, but since you've been looking
into that, these sort of autonomous zones that popped up all over the country
in twenty twenty, Yeah, well, this one was a unique in that
it like was a real autonou zone that actually really existed. We haven't quite
ever seen anything like it. I mean, you know, people talk about
Occupy Wall Street or you know, going back to the Paris Commune, but
but this really was a unique, interesting thing where the Seattle abandoned their precinct
and sort of left the protesters and autonomous zone to you know, take care
of themselves. So it's an amazing story with amazing characters and yeah, I
mean miscovered by both sides. That is commonly happens in the sort of you
know, fog of war when you get a new thing happening and people are
rushing to cover stuff. The great thing that documentary as a whole is you
get to take your time and go back, get the real story, talk
to everybody, and then get set the record straight and figure out what really
happened and make something that will stand and last. And it's just a different
Uh, it's a different goal than the twenty than you have with the twenty
four news our news cycle, where you do have to get your facts right,
but it's a little it's it's a little different. I mean, we
cannot if you're a lib right, I mean, well, there was something
with this story. There was actually, you know, a famous moment of
conservative media sort of faking footage. And I mean nobody is sort of free
here, you know. I mean, I know, you know, they're
great journalists. I'm sitting next to one of them, and that's good.
You know, there's you know, this is documentary filmmaking is really at its
core, it's real journalism and you have to get to the truth, and
often that gets missed, and people make documentaries that are just you know,
they come in knowing what their story is, who their experts are, and
they can make them really fast artist take a really long time because they because
we respect real journalism. And then the other thing that people sometimes miss with
documentaries is the storytelling side, because you know, they're just trying to tell
you their point, but you can't whop. Don't like being told things.
People like characters and plot lines and going up following along with the story and
all the same storytelling elements you need in any in any other kind of filmmaking.
So it's this like really exciting blend of you know, storytelling and journalism
to it. They grass a little from your original class. Hey y'all,
this is Sarah Carter, investigative columnist and host of The Sarah Carter Show.
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promo code Sarah. No no, no, no, because that brings up
a great point to keep a good thread, to keep pulling out. I've
been watching. Actually, I think I ended up watching Making a Murderer like
three four times because I watched it on my own, and then it's not
far from where I grew up, so I showed it to my dad and
then my dad wanted to show it to my mom, and then I had
to watch it with my roommate at the time, so I saw it a
bunch of times. And I'm right now watching Convicting a Murder, which is
Candice Owens rebuttal after some eight years. I think Making a Murder was twenty
fifteen is credited with serials sort of kicking off the documentary boom, a spark
behind the documentary boom, you know, showing a lot of people there was
interest in it, and you know, you can allocate resources in the documentary
space. And one of the things that strikes me about Convicting a Murderer,
which I've been pleasantly very surprised by. It's just such a complicated case.
But one of the things that's really stood out to me is how often it
seems that in Making a Murderer they smoothed out the story to create a cleaner
narrative, and it is not a story with a clean narrative at all.
And what Candice owns is showing is that some of those intentional omissions and sometimes
unintentional sometimes they clearly weren't looking in the right space and just didn't even stumble
onto things other times they must have, but in the effort to sort of
produce this compelling narrative. That's what got everybody hooked on Making a Murderer is
that it was such a clean arc. Every episode amazing cliffhanger that just kept
you on the couch for hours. And it seems very clear. And our
own David Harsani at the Federalists probably said this was clear when it came out,
because he has been angry about Making a Murderer since it came out.
But when you look at what was left out of it, I want to
know, Thomas, it sounds to me like it would be invigorating to stumble
onto new, more complicated realities as you're investigating a story and making a documentary.
What is it like to sort of, you know, you go into
these things, you're conservative, and maybe you have a preconceived notion about it
one one way or the other. How do you sort of moderate yourself and
push yourself to create a fair picture or a complete picture? Right? And
by the way, I would just say, you know, since this whole
past week, because it was like an internet trend, I've been accused by
a lot of people of being obsessed with ancient rome because I'm a man,
so like I got a lot of that. Yeah, so from Missjury that
is just rank Missengery. A lot of women am life texting me saying and
now I get it this you are part of this whatever. Anyway, I
accuse you now, since especially since we've talked in the past about your obsession
with true crime, accuse you of liking true crime because you're a woman.
I don't get that at all, Like, I just don't know. I
mean, actually everything you're saying is right, the reason, but the true
crime is a huge part of your reason. Obsession with documentaries because they're great
stories and people love them, and because that you you know, it's like
any you know just unfold further and further and you go deeper and deeper into
it, and that's all really exciting. So I don't know why that's a
you know, it's so it's such it's such a female dominated fan. I
wonder what you think of that. We've done podcasts trying to figure this out
for years. And you know, there's someone just published a great someone that
either works for Reason or they published it in the free press, which was
very wise publication. Wrote a great sort of dive into They were listening to
Amanda Noxi this podcast. I think it was for Reason, and she has
a podcast about sort of the ethics of telling true crime stories and whatever you
think of an Amanda Knox. They were talking about how there's this consensus idea
that women are projecting their own fears of men, and that is, like,
I think, so stupid. I think the answer is just really simple,
which is that they're emotional good stories. And I think men like true
crime too, but like for women, these are women respond to emotions.
That's think why women watch The Real Housewives instead of wrestling for the most part.
So I think it's it's that simple. But speaking of like simple and
complex, I have to imagine constantly as you investigate these things, talk to
people, get people on camera, having these conversations, You're stumbling onto new
and complicated things. And it's it's probably in some ways to do what you
were just saying, a lot of people will just throw something at a screen,
you know. I remember, like when I took an iPhone down to
the border, like I wasn't trying to make a story, like I was
just putting it out there for people. To watch. It wasn't the art
of documentaries, and what you're talking about is something that is a craft of
building a story with reality, with real footage, with real investigations that cannot
be easy, right, And that was actually yeah, sort of a you
know, accidentally dodged your previous question because of my ancient room show. But
I think that's right. I mean, I'm I you know, I didn't
actually, you know, I grew up around film because in this family business,
you know, and and was in the education world for a while and
came back to launch this educational program and now you know, associate producing some
of these films. But you know, I never I never saw myself as
a filmmaker, but I grew up around filmmakers, spent a lot of time
around filmmakers, and they have this thing that you're describing, where this like
need to know and this drive to this obsession with the product too of like
I mean, you know, I will do anything to make this movie just
slightly better, no matter what it takes. I mean, it's this crazy
attitude that now that we're talking and I'm thinking about it is very similar to
what you so stereotypically assigned to like a detective who's got a case that they
can't let go of. So of course the two just pay naturally really well
together where like that, You're right, it feels really good, I think,
to find some more truth and it's addicting. And that is just the
really exciting thing about being a filmmaker and uncovering. People go into documentaries because
they want to uncover story and like find something out that's exciting and expose the
truth. And those are very similar people that go into you know, solving
crimes, and so you know, these two are It is a really perfect
match. And there's a lot sort of in the true crime genre. That's
that's why it makes so much sense, I think to a lot of people.
And that's why I think it's I mean, it's also just why it's
a great if you if you have that mentality, you know, plus you
have just just artistic sense. I just you know, diagonic film is a
great sort of direction to go. Well, I was just going to ask
what sort of people should go over to the incubator website play in pictures dot
com. You'll see the incubator as soon as you toggle over there. What
kind of people are you looking for Yeah, good questions, So we have
I mean, I think, like I mentioned before, this is for people
that are producer directors, and so in your application you have to show us
evidence that you can produce and direct a film. So, uh, this
isn't you know, for people that just have an idea and think me.
You know, if you have an idea and you want to become a filmmaker,
maybe this is a good program for you later down down the road.
But that's important too, knowing that there's somewhere to go, Yeah, that
will support you if you go and get the technical training, because why go
get the technical training if it's a money hole. Basically that's the idea.
So we're looking for that. We're looking af so for people with you know
that our sort of right of center and want to be right of center a
documentary documentarians, you know. So I think for us, we're investing in
these films, we're incubating these films. We're also investing in these people that
we want to create or create as the next generation. It doesn't have to
so don't have to mean you're early in your career. It could be people
that are elsewhere in the film world, maybe making corporate films for a long
time, and you want an opportunity to make a documentary and get your proof
of concept that you can do your own thing. You know, maybe you
have a day job and you've been you know, doing your side side hustle
production company for a long time. I think there's a lot of different types
of people that could fit that want to be future right a center documentarians.
We're big tent and what we mean by you know, the right, but
you have to do there'll be topics that the right is interested in, some
topics that deal with conservative themes or deal with issues that you know, are
you know, of interest to conservatives, or that the mainstream is ignoring.
And we're looking for people that like, like us, love storytelling and love
like like documentary is something meaningful to them and they want to hone that craft.
So that's the type of people that should be applying. I would encourage
all your listeners to tell people about this program. Think about people you know
in film, whether even if that's not you. I think we need we
need to get this message out because this program being a success is sort of
the first brick that we're going to start stacking. But there's a lot of
infrastructure to build. We're in and we've talked about this before, but you
don't have to be based in DC full time. And it's something that it's
it's a project, it's not you're not necessarily replacing your full time job.
So if you're if you're somebody who knows how to do this in the conservative
movement, or you're making films for your business, you can still do this
right, right, could catch an you're better at this than I? Yeah?
Absolutely, So this is this This program is for people. Yeah,
it is four people in the continental United States. We will like travel and
do site visits, but you have to be able to make your film where
either where you're located or where you need to shoot it, you know,
depending on your story. But it can be done anywhere, and it will
be we see it as like a year long program. Uh you know,
not that it will take you a year to make these short films, but
you know, we will still be in the program as we're doing the you
know, as we're promoting the film. Uh so, And so that's it,
and then after that you'll be an alumni and you'll be part of a
network that's building uh so. Uh yeah, be anywhere, and these are
five to fifteen minute documentary shorts. They should us to say amazing, you
know, so you don't have to move to Manute to walk Wisconsin and make
a ten hour documentary on I mean, you don't have to move to washing
d see where we are, and we're often having trouble finding talent because so
many filmmakers are in Hollywood or or elsewhere, and the conservative filmmakers to extent
the exist sure as heck not concentrated around the DC area. I would imagine
either that's right right, all right, Well, Thomas Pack, where can
people find more? There's politium Pictures dot com. You guys are on Twitter
too, right on Twitter or politium Picts. You can find any of our
social media and yeah, and just yeah, I just follow along on social
media and check out our website, and you know, pay attention because more
we'll be coming out. Yeah, I will say, they've got some stuff
coming up. And I'm really personally very excited to see us. So,
Thomas, thank you for joining us, Thanks for having me. Of course
you've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily just
Shinski, culture editor here at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more.
Until then, the lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray, heard
the famous The Reason, then faded away.