You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilley. My name is Kristin Dilley. I'm a writer, a researcher,
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media
manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in
crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilley and
I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by Joyce Call Canada, sister of
Keith Call, here to give us an update on the Colonial Parkway murder and
everything related to it. Joyce, thank you for joining us today. You're
very welcome. Go ahead and remind our listeners a little bit of who you
are, and then tell us a little bit about yourself and the things that
make you. Yeah. Hi, I'm Joyce. I'm Keith Paul's older sister.
I live in Gloucester, Virginia, and I have for a long time.
I'm married and have two four babies. I'm a real estate agent and
my husband and I have a little business. My husband builds houses and I
try to sell them. So that's what we do. I think you're being
modest. You've had a lot of success in selling those houses. If I'm
not mistaken. The market's been good the last couple of years really, so
yes, as soon as before we build them, there's old but we're getting
ready to do another one this year. So we're just small, mom and
pop. But we like what we do and tell our listeners a little bit
about Keith. Yeah, Keith my younger brother. He's seven years younger than
me. He would have been fifty five in March. Yeah, I really
missed him a lot. But he was Heath was Actually he had graduated high
school. He was in his first year of college. It was when this
happened to him, and he was coming up on the end of the first
semester. He was going to school for a computer science So this was back
in nineteen eighty eight and he already had a love of the computer, so
he had one in his room. He had one of those great, big
clunky I don't even know, a doss or something like that. Bill.
I heard you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is an old school.
But he was very good with computers. He was. I can remember
going into his bedroom and he would say, hey, come look at this,
and he had some kind of contraction where he put the old type of
telephone, handheld telephone receiver, and he put it into this contraption and he
was like, look, i'm we can communicate it this way. And I
was like, what world, I don't know, and he was probably I
think he was playing games and so forth. But yeah, he was very
interested in it way back. So I think he would have loved how things
have evolved the career path. Even back then, I think so too.
I think he was doing one of the first dial up computer systems where you
would put the phone in the cradle and then send audio signals. There was
all this crackling and worrying, and there were certain sounds actually those old computers
made. I wasn't an expert, but I had friends like Keith that were
really Crackerjack, and I can't help but believe even though obviously Kristin and I
never met Keith, we feel like we know him a little bit through you
and your family. I think he would have loved all of these developments in
computer technology over the last thirty five years. Oh, I really do too.
I can almost bet on it. He'd probably have a whole bunch of
devices, probably not like just one phone, but many, and probably a
couple of laptops. I'm just imagining that, not that he would have,
because it was funny thinking back. He would get all excited telling here and
look at this, and I'm like, Okay, that really makes him happy.
We also know that he was really into music, because, for instance,
we've seen a clip of him waiting with friends to go see You Two,
who were a relatively new band back then, and he was waiting in
line with friends to get concert tickets. As I recall, Yeah he did.
He loved You Two, Pink Floyd, Joshua Tree, all that good
music, and yeah, I was actually talking to Selena's sister. Selena was
his girlfriend, longtime girlfriend her sister a couple of days ago, and she
was sharing a memory with me about him and she said he was over our
house one day. They were both over there and he said, she said,
he was so excited. She said, it's when CD's first came out.
And he came over and he had just got this new CD player and
he was telling them, y'all have to get one of those. You just
have a look at the difference in the sound. And she was laughing about
how excited he was about it. We just crossed a pretty sobering milestone in
Keith and Cassandra's case, and that is the thirty five year mark. Did
you ever think that you would reach three and a half decades in this case
with no answers? Never, in my wildest dreams did I think that.
I did not. No, I never thought anything like this, whatever even
happened, And then let alone, thirty five years out, still not know
what happened. I must say, it's probably a good thing I did not
know, because it's something that you don't want to know when the forefront,
that's for sure, if you don't mind walk us through, just like the
basics of what happened to Keith and Sandy, what they were doing the night
they went missing, and just a little bit about what transpired. The way
that I've been told is that they were friends from a class that they had
in college. They had a class together and they become friends. They decided
to go out on a date that night, a casual date from what I
understand, and Keith went to pick her up. I think they went to
a movie first, and then they decided to stop by the impromptu party that
they were having at University Square Parts apartments, which was across from the college
that they both went to. And from what I understand, there was not
just one party going on. It was the type that there we had parties
going on in different apartments, and it was like a place where the kids.
It wasn't like a formal party. They would go there and hang out.
They would know you didn't need an invitation. They would just oh,
let's go. And then they went from one apartment to the other. And
that's the way that it was explained to me. And that's where they went.
And Keith had picked up some beer before the evening had started. As
I recall, your brother said, actually, yeah, Chris, my brother,
which is younger than me but older than Keith, had actually got it
for him. I think Keith called him and he was going to borrow a
jacket or some kind of piece of clothing from him, and then asking what
he'd get him some beer. I think the reason being because Keith wasn't a
big drinker, but he knew that they were going to go to college party
or go there, and that was just what you did, just went ahead
and come here. To remember, this was nineteen eighty eight and it wasn't
like it was now. And that's the story. That's what Chris tells me.
He just asked him and he said, yeah, and you don't go
into the party empty handed. In other words, even if he wasn't going
to drink a lot of beer, you bring some beer with you as a
contribution, housewarming present. That's the type of parties I went to me too.
Don't come empty handed. And so then the University Square Apartments party was
the last place where Keith and Sandra were seen at that point. What happened
to Keith and Sandra after that, that's the million dollar question there. We
do not know they were last seen, and we've had different accounts of the
time, varying from an hour or two. And I don't know we related
because maybe somebody saw them so when Telma Cassandra in one apartment and then maybe
Cassandra had went to another apartment. That's the only thing we can think of.
It sounds logical, but it was I've heard bearing in accounts between twelve
thirty and about quarter to two something like that they were last seen and they
left there, and that I know of, nobody has ever seen them since
they walked out those doors. I was just going to say the car was
found in the wee hours of the morning on a Colonial Parkway, but no
sign them and they were trying to meet a curfew. As we understand it
that Keith had said to Sandy's parents he would have her home by two am
or something like that. That is correct. Yes, the Colonial Parkway spot
where Keith Toyota Selika is found is not on the way home from the University
Square apartments to Sandy's parents house in the Grafton area. No much out of
the way. It's quite a bit out of the way of fifteen twenty minutes
out of the way. There's no reason for them to go there. I
know they didn't go there. So in your view, then the car is
placed there perhaps, but you don't think that Keith and Sandy would have ended
up on the Colonial Parkway for the reasons you've outlined. No, I don't
think so, not at all. I don't think so. She had a
curfew, and Keith would have taken her home somewhere around that curfew, and
Keith nor Sandy hung around, spent a lot of time on the parkway.
And from what I understand from Cassandra's sisters is that Sandy did not even like
going to the Parkway. It was just really out of the way. There
was no reason for them to be there at that time in the morning,
on that dark place, at that particular overlook. There's just no reason whatsoever.
We've heard the theories from law enforcement that maybe they went swimming, maybe
they drowned. That bluff is just so high over the James River. It
was an April morning. It's way too cold to swim. I've never bought
it. I don't think your family or any of the other survivor's family has
bought that either. No, never for a minute. Never for a minute.
There's no way of fact. It was. It was cold that night.
It was I believe the temperatures were in the forties at night. Just
this past weekend in April. We were out there. It was windy and
chilly. The sun was out, but but it was cold. Nobody in
their right mind is going to go down there, and if they were ever
going to there's plenty of other places where you can just walk out to the
beach, not go down an embankment that's thirty feet. Keith would have driven
across the York River on the Coleman Bridge more than likely to get home to
your parents' home in Gloucester. Correct, And it's correct. So that would
mean that he would leave Sandra's house and get right back on Route seventeen or
J. Clyde Morris Boulevard, wherever you want to call it. George Washington,
Memorial Hathway goes by all those names, but it's Route seventeen and it
goes all the way from Newfort News and it'll go follow across the bridge into
Gloucester, just one straight shot, no no turns until he would have turned
off on my parents road, and there's no reason for him to have gone
onto the parkway once he was on seventeen. I've driven that a number of
times. There's no reason to get off there out of the wall and what
we heard is that Keith and his longtime girlfriend, Selena, whom you mentioned
a moment ago, were on a bit of a hiatus. They had sort
of separated, if you will, and they were a very close couple throughout
the latter part of high school. Correct, that's right, they had taken
a break. They seemed fairly mature to me for as young as they were,
But I think back to my maturity level at that age, and it's
yeah, she was in college and she was I think in her second year
and he was in his first. I believe that they had just taken like
a two week break and had decided that they were going to continue on with
their relationship. That is from ye. I do still keep in touch with
Selena, and like I was saying, I just talked to her sister the
other day. So people we've talked to who were at the college party at
the Christopher Newport University apartments University Square apartments, which are no longer there,
they've told us that Keith and seen You didn't seem to spend a lot of
time together that evening. They were in separate social groups at the party,
and that Keith was in the kitchen for a good portion of time singing the
blues about how much he missed Selena to one of her friends. So it
didn't sound like any kind of big breakup between Keith and Selena. It actually
sounded like they were going to get back together exactly. Yeah, they were,
and that's what she had said too, And he was talking to his
friend on each wolfriend of both there's in the kitchen for hours that night.
Keith and Cassandra were at the party together, but they weren't together as a
couple at that And I can remember doing that when I was young too.
It's just okay, let's go together, but we're not together. Yeah.
At this point, now that we've caught up a little bit on the case,
I want to make sure we talk about some of the issues that come
up every time you guys cross an anniversary, and I want to make sure
we talk about some of the good things that are coming up here with an
upcoming monument. So I guess my first question is what do you and your
family do when it's time to mark an anniversary. Do you have any rituals?
Do you go to a specific place, do you have a beer for
Keith? Like, what do you guys do to mark his memory on these
these weekends and years pasted earlier in the years, sometimes we would go to
the Parkway, but we haven't done that in a long time, and actually
don't really like to go there to do that. So usually we'll just say
a prayer and we don't have any place to go. We've never had really
any place to go that. The main thing that we do is just amongst
ourselves, tell ourselves and tell Keith and prayers that we are still fighting for
you and we're trying our best to find out what happened. It's my understanding
that Keith didn't have a funeral or a memorial service, and I can understand
that when there is nobody to find that would I can understand that. Was
there any other reasoning behind that not having a service for him, No,
there was never really any other reason. I think the first few years,
even when my dad was still alive and taking care of everything, it was
still like so fresh and we were trying it's okay, it was ever years.
We're going to find something out, something's going to happen, or we
would get our hopes up. We're going to have a resolution to this somehow,
somehow, and every year that's just carried us over or carried us over.
And we're not giving up by any means now still. But the thing
is, as y'all probably are well aware of, as the years go by
and we all get older, I don't want to leave this earth and there
not be anything marked of his existence here on earth. And my brothers and
I have talked about that in years. Pain of the last seven or eight
years, we should probably do something. We should probably do something, but
we hadn't yet. But now I just feel like it's time. It's time.
It's time, and I feel good about it. It's time to do
it. So yeah, go ahead and talk to us a little bit about
this, this monument that is going to be placed for Keith a little bit
later this year. How did that come about? And which company is actually
doing the work on that. We'd love to sing their praises. This is
how it actually started. Like I said, we had thought about it on
and off for years. This time last year, probably out of the blue,
I get a phone call. It was probably a voicemail, and I
called this fellow back and his name is Ed Taylor and he is with the
Cumberland Historic cemetery organization and that is in Cumberland, Maryland, and he says
that every year his organization donates a certain amount of monuments or stones to families
for different reasons. It can be different reasons. It can be somebody whose
family member has been gone for a long, long longer than Keith and they
never had a proper bury or stones, or it can be there's a wide
range. But what it was is he had travel of this area quite a
bit in the early two thousands and he got familiar with our cases and so
he used to follow our cases and he stole does when they were talking about
who they wanted to donate too. As they were talking about it last year,
he brought up our cases with the board of directors for his organization and
they all seem very interested. So he called me to ask if my family
and I would be interested before he went any further. And I was like,
let me ask them, But I think so because we had been thinking
about it. Fast forward after I talked to my brothers about it and they
were said yes, and we started talking in summer of last year. So
we decided to do it and they have vaciously along with Roswell was where my
parents are buried up Homerland Historic Cemetery Organization. Yet they have heard the monument
and I don't know. Do you want me to tell you what they put
on it? But they're putting on it. No, absolutely tell us this
is what's going to be on it's it's going to have a ceramic tile of
Keith, a picture of Keith. And I know your audience can't see that
gun. They'll show it to you right there. It's going to go right
there, and it has his name and it has his birthday and then it
says last seen a Live April tenth, nineteen eighty eight. Son of Richard
and Barbara call. He had a kind, loving and empathetic nature. He
loved his family and friends and had so much value in his family and world.
Keith life was tragically stolen from him when he stopped at a cottage get
a college get together with Cassandra Haley last scene at University Square Apartments Nuper News.
His car was abandoned on the Colonial Parkway. Their clothes were found in
the car. No remain have been found as of twenty twenty three, when
this monument was unveiled by Cumberland Historic cemetery, the search continues, May God
have mercy on his soul and all souls, and then it leaves the space
on there just in case we ever do find any remains, we can put
a date on there. So that's what's going to be on the monument.
We haven't had a limited space and so we had to condense it down.
I wanted to make sure Cassandra's name was on there too, right, So
that's what we're going to put on my parents grave. I think it's beautiful.
Both of your folks have gone now, and you were telling us this
is a unique situation because Heath technically and Sandy are both missing persons. We
don't know with a hundred assuredness that they're gone, but it's been thirty five
years, so the chances are they've passed on. But it's a unique situation
in that here we are now putting a beautiful marker at the Roseville Cemetery,
but with no remains. Right. It actually sounded like there was some significant
discussion behind the scenes between the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Group and the Roseville Cemetery about
we've kind of never done this before. But everybody came together, including your
family to show support for this idea. Yes, there had to be an
agreement between Rosewell, which is hog general home they owned, Rosewell a Memorial
Gardens where my parents are buried, and Cumberland. So Rosewell is going to
install the granite that goes underneath where the monument's going to sit. Cumberland is
going to bring down the monument. And so they did come to agreement and
they said that they would be glad to help us. So I was glad
for that. So everybody did. So a lot of it was just we
had to go through red tape on both because there was two sets of board
of directors, and you know how that's everybody came together. It's so wonderful
that Rosewell agreed to allow this to happen, because I guess they could have
said no. They could have said no. I was then they really could
have. We were really hoping not because I guess basically, it's like Rosewell
has been in this community for a long time, and I know that the
owners of that place have been around for a long time, and so they're
familiar with a lot of people in this community, and so we knew that
they were familiar with all of the Colonial Parkway cases. So we were really
hoping that they wanted to support the community, which they did. I know
it is highly unusual, but it's not going to be taking up any of
the other space. It's going to be right there with my parents, which
is I think that if they know anything, if they can never see anything,
that they would be happy. Oh I think so, oh yeah,
yeah, absolutely, you're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back
after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at Mind over Murder.
And just because I'm sure that we're going to have people who ask why is
there no monument on the Colonial Parkway? Either of you can either of you
I'm getting when I rolls from both Joyce and Bill, please note, can
either of you or both of you speak to why there will not be a
Colonial Parkway marker or a monument on the parkway? Joyce, would you like
to take that or would you like me to I'd like you to take that,
respectfully. The National Park Service has never shown us an ounce of support,
even some years back when the call in Haley Families had made arrangements to
bring in cadaver dogs to search some likely spots where remains might be found.
Joyce can tell you more because she was there and lived it along with the
members of the Haley family. We got nothing but resistance from the National Park
Service since the very beginning. In my opinion, they've wanted nothing to do
with the Colonial Parkway murders. I know they don't even like the name the
Colonial Parkway Murders, which isn't something we made up. The media came up
with this name. So I don't think the National Park Service would ever allow
anything that would indicate that such a sad thing had happened along the Colonial Parkway.
Maybe someday, it's funny. They've got historic markers all over the place.
They'll show you where all of the old sites were, and some of
the important plantations and other homes and other places where significant events took place.
But heaven forbid they'd ever acknowledge the fact that something sad happened out there,
and by the way, assuming for a moment that the Keith and Sandy were
also taken from us, there have been multiple murders on the Colonial Parkway.
Ours are not even the only violent crimes that have taken place along the Colonial
Parkway, and they want nothing to do with any of this. Yeah,
we've talked about the Audrey gene Wiler case before, certainly, and that was
a year before Kathy and Becky. So no, these are not the only
violent crimes that have taken place on the Parkway. But yeah, absolutely,
I'm sure that the NPS would throw up their hands and flee screaming into the
night if you ever mentioned the idea of let's memorialize this somehow, Even when
the Colin Haley families were searching with the cadaver dogs, they seem to be
more concerned day. The National Park Service seemed to be more concerned that a
blade of grass would be disturbed by a passing dog than we'd advance this investigation
of these unsolved murders and missing people. Ironically, the cadaver dogs did hit
on something that day, and there were remains found along the Colonial Parkway.
But understand that these are historic sites and people have been buried there any number
of times, so there are unmarked graves all the way back to colonial times
and even before. Things like that can and do happen, but the National
Park Service doesn't want to do anything to mark the locations where any of these
sad events might have taken place. It's a shame. Joyce. You and
I had I think a fairly fun and productive conversation the other night about what
ultimately we would like to do once this monument is being placed. We'd like
to honor Keith and Sandra and all the victims in some way. So can
you talk a little bit about what kind of event you would like to see
that's going to honor the opening of the monument and also all of the cases.
We know that we're going to be holding this in October, which is
right around the time that the remaining three sets of Parkway cases will have their
anniversary. In addition to the timeframe, tell us about what you'd like to
see. What would you like to do. I think it's good that it's
fall and where we've decided to have that in October. It's really good date
to keep it out there for all of the victims families. I really do
that part of it. So we want to honor Keith because we just feel
like in our hearts that we need to do that for our family. And
like I think, I don't know who I was telling your Bill that before
now and I were talking about this the other day that in our mind at
first, when we thought about having a memorial service for Keith, we thought
it was going to We're going to just do a small family affair. We
probably still will, but we have an opportunity at this point to represent for
all the families and to bring awareness to these cases. So we're going to
have the memorial for Keith, but we also are going to invite some politicians.
We want to have keep pressure on the FBI and the state police to
get these paces solved. We would love to put some pressure on the FBI
to get them to share work with off from Labs. I know Bill talks
about that a lot, and I'm right on board with that, right on
board with that. The cases that they are solving them, there's no reason
why they can't solve at least one of ours, at least one of them.
We want to keep the awareness, keep the pressure on, celebrate some
lives. Oh talk about it. You'd mentioned wanting to see some politicians there.
Who would you who's on your ultimate guest list? We have talked about
so far inviting for North when some seers, which is the Lieutenant Governor Jason
Maires? Is that am I saying that correctly meres I think is how you
say it. And he's the attorney general. And then some of our local
bits. And I know when you and I were talking the other night,
Christian y'all were talking about winning Bobby Scott. Maybe we are going to be
getting together a media package and start sending out so by Lou Call y'all know
who she is, and she is to be helping with that as well.
And we've had invitations from a couple of the local news media reporters that they
have some they can help us get in touch with some of the politicians.
So we are going to take them up on that. And you had stories
that just ran a couple of days ago now on both WAVY and w t
k R, two of the big television stations in the area. How did
those come together? Oh, they did very well. They reached out to
us. And when I was talking to Kelsey Smith w t KRS, who
did an interview for Channel three, and she was all on the board and
she said, please Keepney posted. I want to follow this and she says,
and by the way, I want to let you know that one of
the reporters who has done several stories from WTK are Brandon Ponton. He talks
with Bill quite a bit. She tells me, Yes, he's a wonderful
young guy. Yeah. She says that he actually does a lot of the
interviews with politician. He has some very good connections and we should reach out
to him too. She said, do you still have his number? If
not, I'm gonna give it to you. I do. So. She
was very helpful and enthusiastic, and they do want to follow and be involved.
And Wavy with Andy, Wavy with Andy Fox, and he was on
board. And he also told me he instructed me, actually he said,
this is what you do. So we will be reaching back out to Andy
too. And Andy Fox is one of the reporters who has covered this case
from the very first event, and he's been so committed to the Colonial Parkway
murders and so helpful to the families. Yeah, I know, he's very
passionate and committed and feels very close to your family and all of the families.
Yes, he's been there, just like you said, from the very
beginning. And there are times that even if it's not in the news or
anything, if it's coming up on some kind of anniversary date, He will
call me or text to me and he will say I'm thinking about you and
your family. Yeah, just out. That's so kind and it means a
lot. It means a lot that we're just not just not a news case
for him, that he does care. When we did the Lover's Lane murder
series on Oxygen, one of the things that made me smile was seeing a
very young Andy Fox as a reporter with a big swatch of dark hair,
and then to see him now, he's still a very handsome guy and all
that, but he has gone white. To look at those two different pictures,
a young reporter and now a veteran reporter, it really served to remind
you of the passage of time from way back in Keith and Sandy went missing
to the present day. And to look at this reporter talking about the case,
You're like, wow, it really has been three decades. Bill.
I do have a question for you. I'm going to turn the tables here
a second. Do you see having a monument as something that you would like
to do Kathy. I know Kathy was cremated and her ashes spread at sea,
so you don't really have a place you can go either. Is this
something that you'd want to see done for Kathy and Becky. You know,
I want to talk to my brothers about it. I know one of the
things that Ed Taylor has mentioned is that they might want to do something for
Sandy and her family because we talk about these couples as couples, and the
truth is, when you actually get into the details of it, Keith and
Sandy were friends from school, but weren't a serious couple. They were out
on a first date that night. And so Sandy isn't from Gloucester, she's
from the Grafton area. Her family members, if any, would be probably
memorialized in a different place. But interestingly, Ed Taylor said that he wanted
to talk to the Hailey family about perhaps doing something maybe next year to memorialize
Sandy, because we're not trying to minimize their loss. I thought what the
Cumberland folks did was lovely and thoughtful. When you talk to me about this,
Joyce, I was like, Wow, these people aren't even from Virginia,
They're from Maryland. Mister Taylor's been following this case for so many years,
and what a lovely gesture. And I think it's something that might make
a lot of sense for Sandy. As far as the Thomases go, I'd
really have to maybe sit with my brothers and talk to them about it.
Cathy was cremated and her ashes were scattered off a US Navy ship off Norfolk,
and we have videotape of the ceremony. Weirdly, only my father was
permitted to attend. I don't even remember how all that happened, and I'm
not one hundred percent sure that was necessarily the right way to go. But
you're just doing the best you can, as Joyce can tell you, you're
just trying to support your parents and get through the most difficult time you've ever
had in your entire life. There are things about the steps that we took
that I'm not sure necessarily the best, but it's done, so I guess
we'd have to think about if you're going to do something to mark my sister
Cathy's passing, where would you put it? Once again, speaking frankly,
the United States Naval Academy wanted nothing to do with my sister's murder. And
there's a story that needs to be told someday about just how far the Naval
Academy took their efforts to create distance between themselves and what they saw as a
scandalous murder of an Honors Annapolis graduate being murdered with their girlfriend it. I
guess we'd have to think long and hard about is this something we would like
and where would we put that and how could we do that in a way
that was the most appropriate and heartfelt way to recognize losing someone like this.
Even just the physical location of it is there's no specific place that makes complete
sense. Both my parents are gone now and they were both cremated and their
ashes were scattered, so it's not like there's a family plot like in the
Call family example. I was talking to Joyce about this a few weeks ago,
and I actually went online and looked at the Roswell Cemetery, which is
absolutely beautiful, and I looked up the Calls, and of course there's a
photograph of their marker. When Joyce and her brother Doug did the interviews,
which was so well done, you were standing there at the family plot.
So to start bringing this tour to clothes, I do want to ask again
both of you, because you are both the family members of victims, what
do you think right now? April twelfth, twenty twenty three is the biggest
stumbling block to this case being solved. Joy, So I'll start with you
and then let Bill follow up. What is the biggest stumbling block to this
case being solved? I think not enough communication. We don't know what is
going on. They feed us tidbits and a lot of it. We have
to find out our own piece it together, and that's been difficult through the
years. Also, I really and truly I am right on board with Bill
in having our DNA with a lab or a lab that can test degraded DNA.
At this point, that's what our case has. From what I've been
told, our cases are solvable with the DNA. What do we have to
lose at this point, We don't have a darn thing to lose. We
have everything to gain. So that's what I want to see. And I'm
speaking from my whole family at this point, they are all on board.
It's been so many years now I don't even understand, and this is my
limited I'm not in the service, I'm not in law enforcement. I'm just
a family member with a brother and missing. I don't understand how, after
all these years, did they have to be so damn secretive. Tell us
something. Tell us something. You don't have to shout it to the rooftops.
Let us know what's going on before we all die off. Is that
what you want? Good question? Good question? Still how about you?
As for me, I agree with everything Joyce just said. It pains me
to say this, but I think our biggest roadblock to success and experts have
told us that this is a solvable case. The Colonial Parkway murders can be
solved, but we need time, attention, and resources from the Virginia State
Police and especially the FBI, the foot dragging and the bureaucracy. And you're
the lowest possible priority because you're are cold case policies, particularly of the FBI
are infuriating. They are the reason these cases are not being solved. When
we have evidence being sent out from Keith's Toyota Celica and it takes over a
year to get results, and this is a batch of evidence is sent in
tested. We understand sometimes are going to be some strikeouts. We get that
we're talking about cases that are thirty five years old. But to be told,
it'll take some time to get results, and those results on just that
round of testing take a year. That's not acceptable. And I have told
the FBI this in no uncertain terms. The FBI Quantico lab is stacked up.
It's too small to do the job that it's being asked to do.
The private labs that Joyce has mentioned, Athram, Bodie and others are available.
We will work with these agencies to raise funds to cover the costs.
The Call and Haley families in particular have been very successful at raising funds.
I am confident with the support that we've been shown through the Mind Over Murder
audience, our Facebook pages, social media, and the thousands of people that
have reached out to us and said what can I do to help these families
that we could work out ways to raise funds to cover costs. But for
the FBI to say to me, oh, we can't accept gifts of that
type, it's not a gift. We're trying to solve our loved ones murders
and missing persons cases. We need to get some higher level of cooperation and
as Joyce said, more information flow. It doesn't have to be public.
It's infuriating to just feel like you're constantly being pushed away and back from your
own loved ones murder or missing persons case, we've lost more than half the
parents. Now, if there are eight victims, we have sixteen moms and
dads. Or the eight victims in the Colonial Parkway murders, we've lost more
than half. Now nine of those parents had died waiting for answers in the
Colonial Parkway murders. It's infuriating to have this drag on this way. I
second that you both have already indicated that you want your final your concrete step.
The next thing should be, let's put Athram's considerable resources to the attention
of this case. Is there anything else that you'd like to see happen,
like in the next year that would help move this case forward other than Offram.
One other thing I'll add. After hearing of all of the pushback that
we were getting regarding expenses in this case, the folks from ATHRAM came back
to me and said we'll do the testing at no charge. And I thank
them. And first I misunderstood them. I thought they were talking about Kathy
and Becky's case, which is only one of the four incidents in the Colonial
Parkway murders. And then talking to Kristen and David Middlemen, who are the
two brilliant PhDs that run that lab down in Texas. Kristen made it clear
to me no, she said, no, you're misunderstanding all of the Colonial
Parkway murders. They have offered to test any evidence we have from any of
these four incidents in the Colonial Parkway murders at no charge. So at this
point, just like Joyce said, what's the hold up here, they have
offered to test everything for free because they know how dedicated these families have been
to seeking answers. I think we're running out of excuses here. And when
I say we the FBI and the Virginia State Police enough already, Like Joyce
said, what are we going to do? Wait till the families die off
completely? These are solvable cases. They're considered evidence rich. If we put
the time, attention, and resources into these cases, they can be solved.
Let's work together to do that. That was the best place I can
think of to end this, Joyce. Over the next couple of months,
we will be giving out information with regard to this service that we're going to
do for Keith. Is that going to be for public consumption or is that
meant to be a private family thing? In other words, If we have
supporters who would like to come share their support for your family, could they
do? They are very welcome. Yes, yes, we especially encourage any
of Keith and Sander's old close friends. We would love to hear some stories
to make us laugh. That would be wonderful. But yeah, no,
they're definitely welcome. We will keep everybody posted and thank you. That's going
to do it for this episode of mind Over Murder. As we have additional
information about all of the Vince and the memorials, we will start putting that
up on our social media. Thank you so much for listening to this episode
of mind Over Murder. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is
a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill
Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme
music is by Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral
Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. You
can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook and finally,
you can allow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. Thank you
for listening to Mind Over Murder