WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:03.680 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts 2 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.960 and their guests, and not those of W four WN Radio It's employees or 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:11.240 affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsement for radio show programs, services, 4 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.160 or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or 5 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:19.440 implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any 6 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:22.719 questions or comment should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing 7 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:47.039 W four WN Radio. Hello, and welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I 8 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:51.960 am your host, Melanio And this is a beautiful October day, twenty twenty 9 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:57.479 three. We are in the first week of October, which is a very 10 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:03.079 big month in my life because it's Breast cancer Awareness Month, is mental health 11 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:07.959 awareness, Suicide Awareness month. It's in the world of wine, it's the 12 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.599 super Bowl of the wine world because everybody's finishing harvest and out selling wines. 13 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:19.200 And I'm heading to New York shortly. And it's also this week October one 14 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.480 through seven, Mark's band Books Week. Let me just talk about this because 15 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:27.920 I'm the daughter of two authors. I am an author I'm a passionate reader. 16 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:32.359 I started reading as a young girl at h two, believe it or 17 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.719 not, phonetically, and spend a lot of time in my local public library. 18 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.000 Very proud of my library card. So get this. What are these 19 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:44.480 celebrated authors have in common? Ellen Hopkins a New York Times bestseller, Tony 20 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:49.280 Morrison a Nobel Prize winner, John Green a Michael L. Prince Award winner 21 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.640 and New York Times bestseller, and Sarah Moss Moss also a New York Times 22 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.920 bestseller. This is just a few authors. Their books were among the top 23 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:02.439 eleven most books of the twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three school year, 24 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:10.400 according to penn America. In fact, this organization reports that the number of 25 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:16.680 public school bands across the country increased by thirty three percent in the twenty twenty 26 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:21.919 two to twenty three school year compared to twenty twenty one twenty two. That's 27 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:24.960 over three thousand books, three thousand and three hundred and sixty two books, 28 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:30.879 accurately affecting one hundred and fifty one thousand, five hundred and fifty seven unique 29 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:36.879 titles. It impacts the work of one thousand, four hundred and eighty authors, 30 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.400 illustrators, and translators. So it's not just about banning books. It's 31 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:45.319 a banning freedom of speech, which is the First Amendment, and it's affecting 32 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:51.000 people's livelihoods. So guess what state is now the number one state for book 33 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:57.479 bans? Sunny Florida. Yeah, Sunny Florida has a very cloudy of impact 34 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:01.039 on books and it now exceeds Texas for the most banned books in school. 35 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:07.360 Don't you ever wonder why in a nation where we have a constitution where the 36 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:13.479 First Amendment protects freedom of speech, that we're banning books. That's censorship and 37 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.960 the First Amendment doesn't. While it isn't very specific about freedom of speech, 38 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:22.879 it basically guarantees the right to express that disent information on a basic level. 39 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:27.879 That means you can express opinion, even if unpopular. But it protects all 40 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.120 forms of communication, from speech to art to other media. Okay, this 41 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:36.599 is from the American Library Association, And I love librarians. Like I said, 42 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:40.879 I spent my early and very formative years hanging out alone or with groups 43 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:46.719 in libraries while my mother taught class and she was a communications specialist, and 44 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:51.759 we all wrote books in my family and reread. And I'm a big believer 45 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:57.400 that children need to be reading at an early age and reading from a booklist 46 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:05.919 that is diverse and expands their minds. So we're going to dress this today 47 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:10.360 why reading is, as they say, fundamental, and why it needs to 48 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:15.279 happen at an early age, and how we as concerned active women can make 49 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:19.639 sure that freedom of speech is protected, that we have access to good books 50 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:24.560 for children of all ages and adults, because this is just a children's thing. 51 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:30.519 My guest is Kyle Zimmer. She is a co founder and key principle 52 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:35.279 for First Book. It's a Firstbook dot org. It's a nonprofit she created 53 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:44.720 and co found in nineteen ninety two to help further equal access to quality education. 54 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.560 And it is goal is well, she'll discuss it, but it is 55 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:55.199 about getting books to more children in low income areas so they have the fundamental 56 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:59.920 right to be able to read and read books that can be available to the 57 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.319 of all topics. And I have other people deciding what you can and can't 58 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:08.879 read. So Kyle Zimmer, welcome to Fearless Fabulous. You thank you so 59 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:12.800 much, Melanie. It's lovely to be here. I think your whole background 60 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.120 is interesting each Obviously you can tell I'm passionate about this topic because I am 61 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:21.040 an author, I am a reader, and I do believe highly education is 62 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:27.000 the best form of getting people to be their best. You are actually come 63 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.519 from the law background. You have a really amazing career, and you had 64 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:36.720 an AHA moment in nineteen eighty volunteering at a soup kitchen. Thank you for 65 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:42.120 doing that in Washington, d C. What was that aha moment? Yeah, 66 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:46.480 it was actually in the late, very late eighties, and it was 67 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.720 I was a lawyer here in Washington, as you say, and I was, 68 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:55.480 you know, and the town was under siege, the crack epidemic had 69 00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:00.279 hit, and violence was on the rise. And I was raised that you 70 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:04.600 don't sit a fight like that out, that you roll your sleeves up and 71 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:10.199 you go help your hometown. So I as you as you indicated, I 72 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:16.199 started reading with kids after work at a soup kitchen and really just wanted to 73 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.600 be part of, you know, strengthening the community. But what I began 74 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:27.560 to understand is that is how scarce books are in the lives of kids in 75 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:32.959 need, obviously not just in Washington but nationwide, and and it you know, 76 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:39.120 it's obviously it turned into my whole life. Well, it's a it's 77 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.079 a good luck to turn into because I've lived all over I lived in Washington, 78 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.439 I think before the crowd was there in the early eighties, and I've 79 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.639 lived in New York for many many years, lived in the rural South and 80 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:54.600 the not so rural South, and I think, you know, my concern 81 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.079 about I'm missing a linger on the band books thing now is that it seems 82 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:02.120 to be it is on the increase. The American Library Association documented one two 83 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:06.879 hundred and sixty nine demands to censor library books and resources in twenty twenty two 84 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:13.199 that there were that's like huge. It's also doubles the doubles the number of 85 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:18.560 books reported in twenty twenty one. So we're seeing fairly large increases in censorship. 86 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:25.839 And of those titles, the mass majority were written by members of the 87 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:30.839 lgbt QIA community or about black people, indigenous and people of color. And 88 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.959 when I read I read, I went on pan America. I actually joined 89 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:39.639 pen America recently because I was very thinking about this whole topic. Great organization, 90 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:44.920 yeah it is, and you know they're doing great things, and you 91 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:49.319 know it concerns me because it basically skews how we think we are not providing 92 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:54.000 equal access to an open mind. Open mind to me, and open mind 93 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:57.000 is an open book, is open to mind. Open a book, open 94 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:01.759 to mind, and by shutting a book, you're closing a mind. And 95 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.240 it's clearly skewed. I was reading some of the titles, which are fairly 96 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:11.639 well known, some of them so shocking, and it's everything from a curse 97 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:16.600 word to a use of a drug to basically a sexual You know what's fairly 98 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:22.240 scary about it is that a lot of these books reflect the reality of life. 99 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:24.639 So, yeah, people are doing drugs, people are living in poverty, 100 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.399 people are doing a lot of not great things right now, but they're 101 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.320 also doing good things, but we're not allowing that to go on paper. 102 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:37.120 And a lot of these books reflect our therapeutic memoirs that people are writing to 103 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.399 share their life and how they came out of it. So what are your 104 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.600 thoughts on all this? Well, I think you know, let me say 105 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:48.559 right up front, I am a parent and I have two great young men 106 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:54.720 who are my sons, and I recognize and honor a parent's right to oversee 107 00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:00.320 what their kids are reading and doing. Of course, but where that right 108 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:07.200 ends is when it intersects with other people's rights to oversee their children and what 109 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.320 they're reading and doing. And so for me, at the sort of fundamental 110 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:20.080 level, you know, I think that book bands limit parental rights because it's 111 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:26.320 a small number of parents making making decisions for the entire school or the entire 112 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:35.559 community in the case of the library. And that is patently wrong, you 113 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:41.440 know, and flies in the face as you rightly reported the First Amendment. 114 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.039 This is not how this country was formed. And and frankly, when you 115 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:52.720 look back over human history, the people who have book bands are not censorship 116 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.879 or either of those. They're not new. This is not a new thing. 117 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.919 But every time there's a group of people that takes up that particular banner, 118 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:11.200 they are never on the side of elevating humanity and of equal access to 119 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:18.240 education, to quality education, and equal opportunity. It's never that's never hand 120 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:20.679 in glove with a book ban So I think for a lot of reasons, 121 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:28.399 fundamentally, it goes against who we are as a country and who we want 122 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.600 to be, you know. So I'm with you, heart and soul, 123 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:37.879 Melanie. It's interesting my mother, when she was bedridden and dying, asked 124 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.919 me to order she read book. I mean, I come from a seriously 125 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:46.519 big reading family. One hundreds and hundreds of books here that I've got to 126 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:50.480 now donate. And I'm holding my hand mouse Art Spiegelman's Mouse, which is 127 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:54.759 about the Holocaust. Okay, you know, because there are people who don't 128 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:56.639 want that books about the Holocaust, and one movies because I don't want to. 129 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:00.399 And you know, it's messy, it's dirty, it's awful, but 130 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:07.440 it happens. Life is messy, right, It certainly is. It certainly 131 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:09.440 is. And and you know, one one thing, if I may, 132 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:16.399 I think there's uh, there's part of this narrative that is that that is 133 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:22.200 false. It becomes a false narrative, and that is that there's pornography. 134 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:28.639 You know, that word is thrown around and that's just not true. Like 135 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:35.480 you can you know, there is no there is no responsible adult who is 136 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:41.799 suggesting that pornography is appropriate for children. There's no one responsible who's saying that. 137 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.639 And so, but that's one of the sort of Molotov cocktail words that 138 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:52.320 gets thrown into this debate even though it doesn't apply, it's not real, 139 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:58.200 but it shuts down the debate, and I think we have to be strong 140 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:05.679 and vocal on our side of this conversation to say, of course pornography is 141 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.440 not appropriate for kids, but what you determine is over a line does not 142 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:18.720 make it pornographic, and that kids and their families and very highly trained, 143 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:24.320 committed educators, that's who should be involved in this discussion. That's who should 144 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:30.759 be driving it. And so I do think we have to get better as 145 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:37.159 individuals in stepping up and calling it out, because I think we've all been 146 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.519 to quiet and thinking that, well, it's just a small number of people 147 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:46.399 or a small number of communities. And I've got some research that we've performed 148 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.200 that I want to share with you and your listeners because I think it speaks 149 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:56.559 very much to to you know, to this set of issues. Sure Ted, 150 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.240 I'd love to hear about it. Sure What. We ran to two 151 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:05.240 studies, and we really spent a lot of time and consideration on this, 152 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:11.039 because you know, the debate often is may I just say fact free, 153 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:16.639 you know when you're listening to advocates of book bands, and so we really 154 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:24.360 wanted to inject actual data of what's going on in classrooms, and so in 155 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:30.799 one study that we released just recently at Clinton Global Initiative two weeks ago is 156 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:39.080 a six month nationwide pilot study where we identified four hundred and fifty classrooms and 157 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:45.919 we infused those classrooms with very high quality, diverse children's books, and then 158 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:50.399 we sat back and watched what happened for those kids, and the results are 159 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:56.840 very, very compelling. What we learned is that the collectively the number of 160 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:01.840 hours that kids spent reading in those classroom rooms jumped up by four hours per 161 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:09.600 week, and their academics improved. In fact, the classrooms we studied, 162 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:18.799 the average reading scores jumped up by three percent over nationally expected averages. And 163 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.080 so what we see, even during a six month window is that kids are 164 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:30.320 more engaged in reading, their academics are beginning to show an upward turn, 165 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:35.720 you know. And this is in a country where we have you know, 166 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:43.039 fourth graders who are African American, Latino and Native who are eighty four percent 167 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:50.480 non proficient in their reading. It's the line goes between eighty percent and eighty 168 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:54.440 four percent. This is a five alarm fire. We should be using every 169 00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:01.919 tool we have to engage kids in reading to capture their me imagination it's critical 170 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.879 to them, to our communities, to our democracy, and our economy. 171 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.200 So you can tell I'm just as passionate as you are about these things. 172 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.200 I feel like we, each one of us has a critical stake in the 173 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:22.759 future of this absolutely. And you know it's funny. Parents will allow their 174 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.960 kids to be on social media and way too much social media, and I 175 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.879 think that's also impacting quality reading time. There should be more reading and discussion 176 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:41.559 time in schools and around the table, but that doesn't seem to be happening 177 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.360 because we've all been to I'm not a parent, but I've been to plenty 178 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.480 of dinner parties where I see the kids just like you know, bowed down, 179 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.440 their postures, already disappearing over their their iPhones or whatever their mobile phone 180 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:02.399 is. You see it everywhere, and it's like, I get my heart 181 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.279 warms when I travel, and I travel a lot and I see a child 182 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.960 holding a book. I'll tell you something interesting, Kyle. I travel to 183 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.759 Europe a lot, and I and to rule like wine areas, and I've 184 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.720 seen more children. Sometimes the parents will bring their children with them because you 185 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:26.399 know, there's not childcare, and the kids will be reading books interesting and 186 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.000 I'm wondering, and I don't know, but I would be curious to find 187 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.320 out where the United States sits. I know, I know overall adult literacy 188 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.440 is very high in the United States, souse. I was reading up before 189 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:41.759 the show. But I'm curious how we compared to other countries in terms of 190 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:48.559 promoting and nurturing reading among children. You know, I don't know that I 191 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:53.279 have the answer for you on that, on the comparative analysis. It is 192 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:59.919 a fascinating question. Oh, because also it translates into productivity down the road. 193 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:07.839 So I'm curious about that. So you co founded first book, and 194 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.240 i'd love to know you talked about your research study, talk about some of 195 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:17.680 the other initiatives that you have been doing since the founding. And I mean 196 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:19.279 this is like twenty years. Well, no, it's that's what he is, 197 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.400 like forty years. We just are in our thirty second year. I'm 198 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.839 amazed to report and we've done a lot of great work. Only you know 199 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.839 what we it's a five. It's a nonprofit social enterprise, which means that 200 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:40.079 it's a nonprofit and we steal some strategies from the for profit side of the 201 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:45.480 universe to make sure that our work is efficient and as effective as it possibly 202 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:52.480 can be, and we we really look at our work. The centerpiece is 203 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:59.359 listening. It's listening. We have a community, an online community of over 204 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:07.079 five hundred and seventy five thousand members. These are educators in Title I schools, 205 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.680 they are or Title one eligible schools. They're in preschools and after schools 206 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:18.880 and healthcare settings and libraries and homeless shelters in every imaginable place. Because we 207 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:26.279 believe that educational equity requires three hundred and sixty degree surround sound for kids, 208 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:32.039 and we want to be supporting existing organizations in communities all over the country. 209 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:37.200 So this community is the largest of its kind of adults in the lives of 210 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.160 kids in need. It's the largest in North America. And we really listen 211 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.400 to what they need, what they're worried about, what's keeping them up at 212 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.839 night, and responding to that. We have built three major pillars. One 213 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:56.000 is called First Book Research and Insights, and it's our research arm and the 214 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.680 study I just described to you about the impact of diverse books in the classroom 215 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.400 that's a product of First Book Research and Insights. We do about twenty studies 216 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:14.160 a year and for a huge range of topics also to guide our work and 217 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.559 make sure that our work is effective and that it's we're doing as much as 218 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:25.240 we possibly can. The second is called the Accelerator, the First Book Accelerator, 219 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.880 and it's a program where as we hear from our community that, for 220 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:38.000 example, they do not feel trained in mental health issues, and you know, 221 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.599 post COVID, all of us are aware that kids are struggling with mental 222 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:48.759 health issues, and educators that's not usually part of their fundamental training when they're 223 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:55.920 getting their degree. So we recognize that we listen to them, and through 224 00:19:55.960 --> 00:20:02.359 the Accelerator, we reach outside x who are really the thought leaders in those 225 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:08.079 critical topics, and we build resources and connections between our community and these thought 226 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:14.279 leaders to make sure that they're getting as much as we can give them the 227 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.599 on the challenges they have. The third pillar is called the First Book Marketplace 228 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:27.440 and it's a nonprofit e commerce site. We are we move fifteen sixteen million 229 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:33.839 books annually through this site. They are either for free or they're at very 230 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:41.119 low cost. In addition to in addition to books, we do ebooks. 231 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.480 Of course, we do backpacks and art supplies and you know, all kinds 232 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:51.559 of things that we make available for free or at the lowest possible cost. 233 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:56.400 And that's sort of a flyover of all of our programs. I think that's 234 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.920 great, you know, I wish you know it. It starts obviously with 235 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:07.000 the parenting and encouraging reading, which the parents don't read, the kids are 236 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.559 not going to read. Here's a problem. And then obviously in in in 237 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.960 schools we're reading was you know essential, I mean that was part of what 238 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.559 you learned or I mean when I was at school, reading was a big 239 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.079 deal. I don't know what it's like now because everybody's a computers, but 240 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.079 I, you know, love computers and whatnot. But I still love the 241 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:32.720 smell and feel of a library book. You know, whenever I get I 242 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.960 get pitched books all the time. Here's here's the PDIA And I'm like, 243 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.400 you know what, I don't enjoy sitting in my bed with my computer reading 244 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.240 a book. That just doesn't work with me. I have to hold a 245 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.559 book and hit the feel and writing, and I like to tag the pages 246 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:49.880 and you know, and you know, I feel that we had newspapers too, 247 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.880 even though it has seemed to have any But I think it's so important 248 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:59.079 to not give up on certain things. It also hurts authors and it's noted, 249 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:00.720 it hurts illustrated. I mean there's a whole industry behind it that gets 250 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:06.559 impacted with bank books. It's really quite And the sad thing is the banned 251 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.119 books are all as I said, you know, they're all topics that are 252 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.559 They're all topics that you can find on Netflix and many come in streaming channels. 253 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.400 Yeah yeah, yeah. As I think about it, I mean I 254 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.440 get scarier. You know, there's fair issues more available in other areas, 255 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:30.119 including social media. So we're taking something that really is in a better place 256 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:37.279 to learn and putting it aside. And I'm amazed by it, because who 257 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.200 are we to be, you know. I mean it's true parents can just 258 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:42.920 you know, have a say in their children's lives. But this is about 259 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:49.200 public opinion and community and and and banning things that should be available to all. 260 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:53.680 Uh. And that's a problem, and it's a big, it's a 261 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.039 scary problem, and I think we need to underscore this isn't this isn't about 262 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:02.880 politics. This is about That's right. I think that's really important. Some 263 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.279 people go all your you know, it's not about politics, everybody, It's 264 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:11.319 about common sense and freedom of speech and education. And you know, Melanie, 265 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.680 if I made the uh, there's one group of people who on your 266 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.680 list of people to worry about. In addition to authors and illustrators and others, 267 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.559 UH is teachers and first book. Just yesterday we first Book Research and 268 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:34.680 Insights, we released a second study that was a survey of fifteen hundred educators 269 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:40.720 and we asked them, in part, how do you know, how do 270 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:45.000 you feel about book bands and what impact are they having on your teaching, 271 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.839 on your profession, on your you know, on the kids in your classroom. 272 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:55.119 And while only one third of them of the respondents said that there were 273 00:23:55.160 --> 00:24:02.240 book bands in their districts, seventy one person of them said that they feel 274 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:08.599 that book banning undermines their expertise and makes them feel distrusted and increases their stress. 275 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:15.119 So that means that the splash effect, the chilling effects of this kind 276 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:21.920 of message, this kind of movement, if you will, on book banning, 277 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.880 it is undercutting our kids because as I said, the earlier study showed 278 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:33.920 that that you know is a power tool for children, but it's also undercutting 279 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:41.400 the teachers who are dedicated, underpaid, and who are it's already a profession 280 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:47.880 that's in crisis, and we're one more time throwing something like this at them. 281 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.119 It's a big distraction. It's not good. Yeah, you know, 282 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:57.200 the teachers. You know, I've always felt that every high paid CEO should 283 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:04.519 be tithing a percentage of his high paid salary to teachers. Don't get me 284 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:08.319 started on billionaires who spend all their money going to the moon, sending rockets 285 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:12.039 to the moon when they need to deal with situations on Earth. You know, 286 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:15.559 I don't get it. I'll never get it. I don't have to 287 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.200 say it, and I mean my voices are very swallowing. Called vote but 288 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:19.839 doesn't really matter because these are billionaires and they seem to do whatever they want. 289 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.880 But we should be supporting public education, all education, but specific public 290 00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.359 education, but teachers. You know, I'm constantly amazed, Kyle when I 291 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:33.079 hear that teachers are buying supplies out of their own pocket. I how about 292 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.359 that? Yeah? Yeah, I live in I now live in I lived 293 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.480 in New York for many years city and I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 294 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.920 As I said, my mother was a longtime educator and we have she died 295 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.279 and we have lots of things Tozoni, and I'm donating a lot of stuff 296 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:51.880 to the Hamilton County Schools because, you know, anything I can to help 297 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.359 them, and I have. I've been blessed with large collection of books, 298 00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.160 and it's so funny. There's a little pub, there's one of those little 299 00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:03.039 those little library you neighborhood libraries. I go with an armload of books and 300 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.200 stock it. Every time I try to work out. My husband's like, 301 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.839 really it's empty. I'm gonna go pull some more books because I'm swimming for 302 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.119 books. It's tabulous, so that means people are picking them up and reading 303 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.519 them. Yeah, I'm a big supporter of those little I love big libraries. 304 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:25.079 I don't neighborhood wines. You know. Yeah, yes, it's like 305 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:30.960 so, you know, this is a great enterprise. What can people who 306 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.319 are listening most of my audiences women, They may or man you mothers, 307 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:41.640 but they're women, and women have a powerful voice now in this country. 308 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:48.640 What can we all be doing to move the dial forward on this topic? 309 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.079 Well, I think there are a number of things. Uh. First of 310 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:56.720 all, I think we all and I am including myself in this, we 311 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:02.680 need to collectively get up off our couches and make our voices heard. And 312 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:08.400 I think, you know, I think people are hesitant because they don't want 313 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.839 to be part of a fistfight, you know, in front of the board 314 00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:18.920 of education or whatever. But this is what happens in schools. And I've 315 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:23.119 poked around on this and I know it to be true. Principles for example, 316 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:29.960 or school board. People they hear from let's say five or ten people 317 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:37.920 who are adamant about book bands promoting book bands, and they do not hear 318 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:44.559 from the other side of the ledger are they don't hear, And so they're 319 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:49.359 standing there with ten phone calls on one side of the balance and dead silence 320 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.440 on the other. And that is a problem because the loudest voice in this 321 00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:00.000 case, the only voice, is going to be the one that takes the 322 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:04.559 day. And you don't have to have a kid in the school. You 323 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:11.000 don't have to like you can call the principle, you can call the board 324 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.400 of education, folks, and whoever the authorities are up the line, and 325 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:21.160 each you know, districts are organized in different ways, and just say I 326 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:26.759 want to lob in, I want to register that I live in your area. 327 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.720 I oppose book bands, And because I know that these books are critical 328 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:36.039 for our children. It's critical for them to see themselves, it's critical for 329 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:40.599 them to see others. And that's about all you have to say. But 330 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:45.839 I think we collectively need to act and we need our voices to be heard. 331 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.039 So that's one. Secondly, if I can promote First Book for a 332 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:55.759 minute. We as proud as I am of having over five hundred and seventy 333 00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:00.039 five thousand educators signed up with us. It's not nearly an enough. So 334 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:06.359 if any of your listeners, excuse me, if any of your listeners have 335 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.319 people in their lives who are teachers or involved in public schools that are Title 336 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:18.599 one or Title one eligible, or they're volunteering perhaps through their church in a 337 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:23.160 homeless shelter or in a soup kitchen or anything like that, please ask them 338 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:30.079 to get those organizations signed up with us. It's free, there is no 339 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:36.319 obligation, and it takes about seven minutes online to sign up. And so 340 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:41.519 because the bigger we are, the more we can bring that market strength and 341 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.720 lower the cost of the great books that we're talking about. And you can 342 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:52.480 find us at firstbook dotorg. That's great. You know, let's face it, 343 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.400 words matter, whether you speak them, write them. And you know, 344 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:02.720 not taking action and not listening and not speaking up is a powerful statement 345 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:08.240 right there. You know, it's really important if you feel something or see 346 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.200 something, say something, and I want to you know, I mentioned that, 347 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.119 you know, Florida is out passed Texas as book band, but this 348 00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:19.240 is not just about Florida and Texas. And again it's not about politics. 349 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:23.680 I'm living in tennis. It's every state. So I'm living in Tennessee now 350 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:30.440 and the Tennessee and Nashville, Tennessee and reported in July that in Tennessee there's 351 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:38.000 about five hundred band books, so it's across the nation and they tend to 352 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:49.359 be similar in in topics, basically anything that's perceived as going against conventional norm, 353 00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.960 which is like a lot of things, because we are also supposed to 354 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.559 be promoting being yourself and being an individual. But you know, unfortunately some 355 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.200 people they can't share that. It's so interesting, Kyle. I've had this 356 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.960 show now for it's ten years, okay, and I've interviewed a lot of 357 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:18.960 authors who have shared gripping, frightening stories about their lives in books ranging from 358 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:29.160 sexual abuse to suicide attempts to recovering from drug use to you name it, 359 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:37.079 and they the books have by writing what they went through, they have become 360 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:45.200 stronger people and it helps with other people going through similar situations who are not 361 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.279 ready to speak up. So, you know, books are so important for 362 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:57.279 children to opening their minds but also developing language skills. Yeah, and we 363 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:04.440 are sadly. My mother was a speech of communications specialist and language skills. 364 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:09.880 She bemoaned the fact that language skills are worse than ever now and I think 365 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:15.359 we forget how important the ability to speak and communicate is and how books can 366 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:21.880 really make that happen and further that in a very positive way. Well, 367 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:27.000 I think it's also important, and I'm sure that you agree with this, 368 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:34.000 that people who kids who are not from those cultures, or people who've been 369 00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:39.039 fortunate enough not to have catastrophic life experiences. You know, I think it's 370 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:45.599 it's critically important because it gives us that window into another person's experience, another 371 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:52.359 person's race or culture or just life, you know, life tragedies in some 372 00:32:52.559 --> 00:33:00.000 cases. And I think sometimes we as a country, we when we can 373 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.920 divide a problem into a US versus them, we're never very good at solving 374 00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:10.200 those very quickly, you know. And in this case, some of the 375 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:17.440 narrative I have seen has been sort of people suggesting that this that Latia I'm 376 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:23.400 making up an example, Latino authors are important only for Latino kids, and 377 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.640 they are certainly important for Latino kids, of course they are, yes, 378 00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:35.160 yes, But the truth is is that any child from any ethnic background, 379 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:42.440 from any financial background, who grows up without being exposed to other people's lives, 380 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.039 other people's cultures, they are going to be at a huge disadvantage when 381 00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:53.880 they step out onto the grander stage because our country and our world is getting 382 00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:01.440 dramatically more diverse in experience and in culture and ability and everything else. And 383 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:09.519 imagine if you have no connection to any of that and you are trying to 384 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.960 start your life as a young person, that's a huge disadvantage. So I 385 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:21.519 desperately want those diverse books in the hands of kids who are who have been 386 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:25.159 underrepresented, so they can see their cultures and their families. Of course, 387 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.719 but oh my goodness, we all need to be more empathetic, We need 388 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:36.480 to be more graceful with each other, and this is a prime way for 389 00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.639 us to share those experiences. Absolutely, and I think these are such important 390 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:45.599 points. So, Kyle, you're doing some great work. You know, 391 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:49.079 we have a little bit of time left. I have three questions. One, 392 00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.960 what was the first book you read as a child that really resonated with 393 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:58.480 you? Isn't that such a great question? You know, I distinctly I 394 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.960 was lucky like you to have a lot of books in my home growing up, 395 00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:07.159 and I spent a big chunk of my childhood on the linoleum floor in 396 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:14.079 the public library. Like you, I very distinctly remember reading The Adventures of 397 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:17.519 Winnie the Pooh, the original one, the big thick one, and I 398 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:22.800 was determined to go page by page when I was quite little on that and 399 00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:27.400 I still have that copy. Oh you know what, I'm so endeared by 400 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.840 that, Kyle, because I'm moved into my mother's house to care for and 401 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:36.719 I'm sleeping in my childhood bedroom still, and the only books I kept after 402 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.400 we had to pack up hundreds of books are all my Winny the Poos. 403 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:45.599 I have my original Winnyo. And because I believe everybody is a character in 404 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:52.679 Pooh, my husband is Quary for Robin, and I think I'm big Litter, 405 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.519 the wise old owl, but I think everybody is a character Winny the 406 00:35:55.559 --> 00:36:00.280 Pooh. I think it's a seminal books. The other ones I have or 407 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:05.400 not is when I was six, I found that and all my Mary Poppin's 408 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.280 books and My Wizard of Oz, which The Wizard of Oz is the book 409 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:14.199 that probably has affected me more than any other book in life. Fabulous. 410 00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:16.840 Yeah, because when I wrote my book on getting through cancer, it was 411 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:20.960 basically envisioned by the Wizard of Oz Waiting to get out of You know, 412 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.719 why do I go back to Kansas as an adult? What are you reading 413 00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:30.320 that is exciting you? You know, I read. I'm kind of all 414 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:36.239 over the map with my reading. I just finished a book about the history 415 00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:43.480 of Ireland called We Didn't Know Ourselves and it was the history of Ireland from 416 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:51.840 like nineteen fifty to present, and that was stunning. My family has deep 417 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:55.440 Virush roots, so I was interested in that. And I'll tell you I 418 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:02.800 reread The Good Earth by Pearl recently, and I have a great copy of 419 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.079 that book. It's always been one of my favorites, and I reread it 420 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.960 and it's a wonderful thing to do. Because, of course, at sixty 421 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.440 two, I have a very different slant on the way that book plays in 422 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.599 my mind than I did when I was nineteen, So it's kind of fun 423 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.039 to go back to those stories. For me, I think we're reading is 424 00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:30.000 important. I have that book in this library in my office. The book 425 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:32.159 that when I became older, I was still in high school, but that's 426 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:38.800 still resonated with me and I actually talked about on last week's show was Iron 427 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:45.679 Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness. Also The Fountainhead, which resonated with me even 428 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:52.400 today when I created Envision this show and Fearless Fabulous you about how individuality is 429 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:59.239 so important versus conventionality, and that being selfish is not a bad thing because 430 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:05.599 you need to tell of yourself and your self care. So those books stay 431 00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:13.159 with me forever. And Your Erroneous Zones by doctor Dwayne Weyer, you know, 432 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.960 sometimes you go back and reread them. But I do encourage everybody listening 433 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:20.119 to if you have childhood books, go back and read them. When my 434 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.760 mother died, I referenced The Giving Tree. Oh uh huh, another book 435 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:31.639 that I reread frequently because it's such a learning lesson in there about giving but 436 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:36.760 you know, taking and giving. So I think everybody needs to go back 437 00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:42.199 and reread certain books at different stages of your life. It's very interesting. 438 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.840 Absolutely, well, we're at the end of the show. It's really been 439 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:50.400 a pleasure. Again. We've been talking with Kyle Zimmer. The organization is 440 00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.039 firstbook dot org and you can get involved by visiting that website. There's no 441 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:59.639 cost. But what you're doing is you're supporting the fundamentals of freedom of speech, 442 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:05.320 literacy, education and opening people's minds because, as I say, read 443 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.679 my lips, open a book and you'll open a mind and start young with 444 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:13.840 children because it stays with you forever. Kyle and I just talked about books 445 00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:17.039 that we were reading as children, as young girls that still resonate with us. 446 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:25.719 Reading is such an important form of education, communication, enlightenment and helping 447 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.679 people grow. So we need to nurture that and make sure that we protect 448 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:37.679 those rights. Yeah always, Kyle, thank you so much for joining me. 449 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:43.360 Kyle Zimmer, first book on Fearless fabulous you thank you so much. 450 00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:46.880 Melanie, what a wonderful time. Well, I think it's such an important 451 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:51.719 topic and for all of you listening, go get a library card. They're 452 00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:57.000 free, and sit down and curl up and read a book and do it 453 00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:01.559 and encourage your kids as well, because you will find peace and calm and 454 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:07.920 relaxation. And it's better than just constantly clicking and clicking and streaming and scrolling. 455 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.599 It really is. I do it all the time away from everything to 456 00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:15.920 relax. You've been listening to another edition of Fearless Fabulous You as usual. 457 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:20.079 My message is that you have the choice in life to live how you want 458 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:23.920 and not live by other people's terms. Choose life on your terms and choose 459 00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:28.239 fearless and fabulous, and do it in a way that helps lift others up 460 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.679 with you. Thank you. I'm Melanie Young, follow me, I'm Melanie 461 00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:37.559 Fabulous. And you can listen to this show on your favorite podcast platform, 462 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.320 including all the ones that are huge like iHeart Spotify, Apple. So do 463 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.280 it and share it and thank you and thank you again, Kyle. Thanks 464 00:40:45.360 --> 00:41:02.280 so much they had with the Fam.