What is Krakolac and fell If there're a nuclear A efforts, I am Dan
Valley, command you with a very quick intro. This time, I went
on the NBA podcast with my good friend and collie Brian Taporek, who also
covers the NBA for Forbes and Atleach Report. We talked a lot of things.
We did Sixers, Clippers and Bucks post mortems and those were long.
We did like I think thirty minutes or close down average on each of those
teams, and then we got into the thunder Maverick series nix Pacers series.
If you're listening on audio, I did throw up the previews already. If
you're on YouTube, I've attached them in full here. I'm probably gonna post
the full We had over two hours of talk, so you'll have that full
discussion, but the previews will come at the end, so if you already
listen to them, you can you can skip that. It was a great
discussion. I love Brian always has some really great insights. See when it
comes to the offseason stuff. I think you guys will really enjoy the post
mortems. So nothing here on the epic Nuggets Timberwolves game that we just saw
are the Calves Magic Game seven that we had seen on Sunday Grant and I'll
probably hit that later in the week. Just wanted to kind of update you
on what the timeline is. But I really enjoyed this episode. I think
you will enjoy it as well. Show us some love though, like comment,
subscribe if you have not already, tell people about us. Like I
said, there's weird temporary holds on mine and the Hardwoodknockx Twitter account for spam
activity. I guess our takes for spam really, so if you can share
it, retweet it, tell people about us. Comment. The algorithm seems
to like comment, so say whatever you want. We would really appreciate it.
We appreciate your support as always, though. There's to join our discord.
The link to that's in the podcast and YouTube description as well. You
can follow us on all the socials there too. But without further delay,
let's get to some extensive offseason slash Playoffs talk with Brian Taporik of Bleach Report
and the NBA podcast, which you said subscribe to. I've included the links
to that in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Welcome everyone, Episode six ninety
of the NBA Podcast. I'm Brian Sphorik, and we have another great show
for you today. The first round is just about over. By the time
you're listening to those, it probably will be. We still have Cavs Magic
Game seven on tap, but three more teams have unfortunately left us for the
season, that being the Milwaukee Bucks, Philadelphia seventy six Ers, and Los
Angeles Clippers. So we will be saying bye fully sha to all three of
those and tackling their biggest box season questions, and then we will go into
a Knicks Pacers preview as well before we do. Or reminded that you can
follow us on Twitter at the NBA Pod. You can find our Twitter handles
in our bios you give us a follow as well. You can also find
us on iTunes whoever else podcasts are found on iTunes, Please subscribe download leaves
of five star reviews. Joining me today is not my usual co host,
Morton Jensen. He is away for the weekend, but he will be back
shortly. Instead, we have tapped a longtime friend of the show, Dan
for Valley of the Hardwood Knocks podcast. He is also a writer at a
Bleacher Report, and I'm reregrudgingly doing this because Dan is a Knicks fan and
I am hoping that he will be kind and not cloud Joel Embiid, But
we will see Dan. How's it going, man, I am spectacular.
Thank you so much for having me back. It's always fun to catch up
with you, and we get to see each other in real life, like
by the time it drops basically for anyone who cares and he's looking when we're
in NYC together. I will be kind to Joel Embiid just because I understand
that there's always an excuse. But he's dealing with Bell's palsy, was playing
on one leg, and he was still There were moments he was cooked by
like the end of these games, but he was still both like for stretches
that you were in the shot deterrent and a racer and then just had that
fifty point game. So I still have all the respect in the world for
him. And I know some people call it grifter, they think that he's
saft, but those people are fucking idiots. So I still well, I'm
very I mean, we're gonna get are they the team we're gonna start with?
Is there like a I'm on your podcast, wills that you a question,
But is there like we're officially at the point where there's mega urgency and
questions with Joelle Embiid, Right, he's thirty, there's always going to be
something, which it's just you just it's like with Zion, there's all you
just have to assume there's always gonna be something, and so just like does
that Obviously there was already this urgency leading into the off season because they have
this cap space, they have picks, they're gonna you know, sign Maxi,
But like, is the urgency just increased because now you've kind of just
you have to know more than ever that this dude is never going to be
close to one by the end of the year. Yeah, I absolutely think
so. I Mean we say this every year going into the six D off
season that most important six or dof season yet, but like this time it
really is. It feels like this is their last shot to get it right
around Embat, like the process is and buried. You know, we've gone
through like six front offices since Sam Hinky. At this point, you know,
people continue to really relitigate it. But it's like, Okay, well
everything he drafted or traded for or accumulated is now gone other than Joel Embiid
basically, so they are relying on Joel Embiid, Tyrese Maxie and now this
ability to create sixty five million dollars in cap space. But you know,
even if they did, I haven't seen anyone throw this out yet. But
like the idea of just doing another like quote unquote gap year, just signing
a bunch of guys to one year deals and then like running it back next
summer in case their options are any better. Even if you do that,
like they've manufactured an additional twenty plus million in cap space this summer, just
by holding off on the Maxi extension, you know they're gonna they're gonna wait
to sign him. As cap hole is thirteen million, he's gonna get presumably
a full MAX. We'll see if he makes all a VA that will affects
how much his starting salary will be. But you know he's gonna make at
least thirty five million dollars next year. So even if they were to say,
okay, we're gonna just do this one year plan, we'll go in
twenty twenty five, Well, now you've got two guys on full MAX fields,
like you won't have the ability to create sixty five million dollars in cap
space next time. So yeah, I mean, I think they absolutely have
to get it right this year, and we'll see. I mean, there's
already some speculation about which, you know, their interest in Paul George has
been the worst kept secret in the NBA. Brian Windhorst of ESPN went on,
get up on Friday, like naturally twelve hours after the six or season.
Then it's already slap season for them. Mentioned brandon Ingram Jimmy Butler as
possible targets as well Lebron James can become a free agent. You know,
please keep giving the hell away from this team. This is just not like,
let's not tie our immediate fate to someone who is I mean, he's
kind of fragile, he's always dealing with something. He's definitely a gamer,
but he's getting up there in age and he did not look right this season
and then goes on to miss the entire play Like that's a it'd be a
fun storyline. But if you just circle back to what age thirty four?
What is he thirty four to thirty five, Jimmy Butler, that's a little
bit uninspiring to me. Yeah, so I I guess let's start with this.
All of those names that they that had been floated out as potential sixers
targets if they go the three star route, that we could debate that separately.
But what you know, by all accounts, they are going star hunting.
Who do you think makes the most sense that either out of that group
or is there another target that you should think they should be hind Well,
so what's interesting? So let's start with that group because I still think it's
Paul George. I know he's older too, he just turned thirty four.
I think on May second, he is more plug and play than everyone you
just named. And I know he just he played most of that Maverick series
with like the Wednesday before Thanksgiving energy. It was just it was an abomination.
Whoever, his role changes in Philly or at least he's able to settle
into a more consistent one where it's well, will Kawhi be available? Will
he not be available? And then I know your and we'll do another podcast
at some point about the three star max model. It feels when you know
that one because you have cap space like it's I think it's a little bit
easier to sign on to that because it's not costing you a ton of assets
other than that cap equity now. But also the benefit here is though,
because he's extension eligible, even if he opts in, he controls his own
fate in a way that James Harden never did because there's a market for him.
And so if you're the Sixers and you have to give up like something
for Paul George, let's say it's an opt in in trade rather than an
outright signing, like, it's still not going to cost you as much as
it would to get a Jimmy Butler, maybe even to get a brandon Ingram.
And that matters because the Sixers only have picks and cap space to offer,
like there's no like you're not looking at a blue chip youngster to send
out. And that also means if you're getting into and maybe that's why I've
latched onto the Paul George fit is it feels like he's just gonna get to
pick where he goes. Not that if Jimmy Butler just and the Heat decided
to part ways, yeah, he'll have his say, especially looking his contract,
his age. But because it gets to pick where he goes. It
also feels like the route that will come at the lowest opportunity cost of getting
a third star, And so I don't know how you feel about that.
But then the second layer of that would be if you're actually looking to trade
for a star that's already under contract, they can move up the five first
round picks this summer, But like, is that gonna be, Like what
is the name that you're putting all of those on the table for. I
doubt they exist, like maybe Devin Booker, But like you're never even gonna
have the best offer because all you have is these picks. You need a
team that I guess is desperate to just save money, or you need someone
to say, hey, it needs to be Philly. Yeah, I'm glad
you touched on this because i've you know, especially now that they're getting more
mentioned in like the trade rumor mill instead of just free agency. I'm with
you in thinking what do they have to offer other than picks at cap relief?
Like even if you want to say they could sign and trade free agents
to whichever team they're trading with, teams over the apron can't receive contracts by
a sign and trade so that closes, Like Miami could not receive as much
as I would love to sign and trade to Bias Harris to Miami, Miami
could not receive Tobias Harris in a sign and trade. I don't. I
don't know where the Pelicans are relative to the Apron or where they're projected to
be relative to the Apron. But like, you know, are you sign
and trading Kelly uber Junior to the Pelicans for Brandon Ninger? Probably not.
Like I think a lot of these teams are going to want a picks plus
prospects package, or especially a team like the Pelicans that has I mean most
of these teams, of the players who're just listed, they're not even and
during these rebuilds, by moving these players, maybe maybe they would want picks
more than mostly like the Pelicans need dudes if they're getting rid of Brandon Ingram,
right exactly. Yeah, Like all these guys feel like a they would
make more sense in a star for star swap, so you know, maybe
in Ingram for talents or an Ingram for Trey Young or something like that,
and then you know, figure out the picks and the supporting pieces whatever.
But yeah, I can't see how the Sixers, if it's just the two
team deal, how they would make that work. Now maybe, I mean
Darryl Morey is very creative. Maybe he gets in six teams. Yeah,
like a at a team deal and they're just you know, the Sixers,
they're using their cap space and just taking on contracts. But I mean it
is it is worth stressing that that is a possible use of their cap space
because I cannot tell you how many people every time I mentioned that they can
create sixty five million, like a picture of the SPA track. Top free
agents, Like, I know, they're not a ton of top free agents.
If they don't get Paul George Lebron James, you know, they might
not get a star star star like third star in free agency. But you
can always trade for guys and as long as they're under the cap after the
trade, they don't have to send salary back. You know, I'm thinking
more along the lines of what happened last year with John Collins, where Utah
got him for Rudy Gay and a second round pick. Like you know,
these teams. We have been hearing from all of these insiders that teams are
more cost conscious and you know, might have to shed some salaries, so
I don't know which teams that will be. This is not going to be
a popular name to throw out there, but Andrew Wiggins, I imagine,
would be one such example. I would not want to take him on unless
the Warriors are including additional assets, like I would not be giving up assets
to get Andrew Wiggins. But right, you know, like those are the
types of guys that I think are more realistic trade targets for the Sixers than
a brandon Ingram unless it's a multi team deal where you know, cap relief
is one of the big things that one of those teams is going after.
It almost kind of feels like it's Paul George or Lebron or Bust if you're
looking for a star trade for them. Just like these guys decide they want
out of their current situation in Philly is where they want to go for whatever
reason. Although I did think, and I've had this thought about Miami too,
but the Sixers can actually save the money. I first of all,
if Minnesota starts cutting costs, they're fucking sham because you have until like the
end of next league calendar year to cut your tax bill. In theory,
and so this team was good enough to where they at least deserve until next
year's trade deadline. I've been pretty admirant about that. But whatever's going on
with controlling like the controlling ownership there with Mark LORII and Al Tarriguez versus Glenn
Taylor. If they're looking to cut costs and it's just like, let's just
say it costs you a pick, but they're so dead set on cutting cost
would you be willing to, like try Karl Anthony Towns out on this team
with EMBIID and Maximum. No, No, I would do it. I'm
not gonna lie. I would do it. I think. I mean again,
we definitely need to just do a full three star, three max whatever
episode because I think this is I'm seeing now finally more people are starting to
realize this. But like I've been kind of beating the drum for months that
it's gonna be really really difficult to build around three stars moving forward. Not
impossible, and I think there will be exceptions. In Boston. I think
it's gonna be one, Okay, see just because of all their picks is
going to be one. But I think if you're building around you know,
like you you accumulate this third story your viol free agency or via trade.
If you don't have that supporting casting in place already, it's gonna be really
tough. I think if you do do the three star three max model,
it almost has to be one guard, one wing, one big. I
was gonna say, I think it's like one three five like that's what that's
what the three star model has to be. Yeah, I think it's just
a bad allocation of resources to spend. I mean, between Mbat and Towns
alone, it's gonna be almost one hundred million dollars. Well, my thought
process was because Minnesota is valuing the cost cling part of that trade as an
asset still presumably wouldn't be doing that later on, so they could flip Karl
Anthony Towns if they wanted to for more. Maybe it's just he's still the
holdover if they have to do with Joe and b trade, I would say
in this specific situation too. The other thing that I feel like people aren't
necessarily accounting for there are players of their own free agents that they just might
want back to lower, like and that'll lower like Theanthey Meltain if he's healthy.
I know he's dealing with the back stuff. I am a bullish on
the fact that Nicholas Patum can't retire this team just still will. People are
already begging his wife on Twitter to let him come back for one more year.
I would assume that Buddy Heeled is gone, but like that's someone who
in see I thought that was such a home run trade for me at the
deadline and then to see what kind of became of it. But then he
has that type of Game six against the Knicks, and then even Kelly Rejunior.
They don't have his bird rights, but they have cap space. So
those are just four guys I kind of identical. And you know, they
don't necessarily want to just get rid of Paul Reed. They might guarantee his
contract anyway because it's such a low number, right, Uh, They'll have
an idea of how they need to use their cap space. So the capspace
they have, whether you're looking at it from a free agent perspective or a
trade perspective, or the cap space they can feasibly create, they're probably not
going to optimize that because it means that we have Joel embiid Maxie and that's
it. And just that from a starting point is incredibly iffy. So yeah,
I'm very curious to see, like have and I haven't given this enough
thought, whether it's trade or free agency. Are there any of these like
substar names that make a lot of sense for this team? Yeah, I
think DeMar Derozen's gonna be the one that's thrown around the most. Ooh,
I guess you know, with the way Joel embiid it's been shooting, you
have the spacing to kind of make that work. Yeah. I was pretty
out on it for a while, but I've I've increastically opened myself to it.
Depending on the price point in pourt, like if you're paying max or
near max money, absolutely not. But if it's like twenty five to thirty
million a year, at least I'm not saying no, it's not a hard
note for me. Klay Thompson, I think would be a hard now at
this point. Just I can't imagine if he's leaving the Dubs. I would
just question like, Okay, well, what is the money that got him
out of goal? Yeah? Exactly like I'd rather if I if you're giving
me the choice between Molik Monk or Klay Thompson on the same contract. I'm
taking the leak, monk uh, So what is I know it's your podcast,
but this is like the team that you cover, that's your like primary
meat. So I'm quizzing you here, what is you're looking at this the
roster that they have some of the guys that they could bring back, Like
what are the you know, one first second, like your top three biggest
like archetypal needs. Then if it's not even just players, like we need
to do this obviously you could say wings just but like it's weird because we're
working off the baseline of they have Maxi and embiid that's what we know for
sure. Yeah, right, so yeah, they don't need the center,
I'll say that. Or they don't need a starting center. They do need
a backup center. If anything, I think the Knick series kind of exposed
Paul Read's limitations. Unfortunately, Paul Read super fun player and everyone and Philly
loves him, but you know, did not have the size to bang with
either hard and Stein or Robinson and even I mean I thought in the game
four where Robinson left early, they're like, oh wow, finally Paul Reid,
like he's getting precious to Chua, like he's finally not going to be
giving up three inches and fifty pounds, and he still was ineffective and they
had to play and be you know, a ridiculous amount of minutes. So
I think a backup center with more size is not their top need, but
is a legitimate need for them wings. As you said, I think number
one need really just three of d guys. It's just you know what works
the They're kind of in the same place as the Lakers after the twenty twenty
Bubble Championship where it's like, we know what archetype will work around these two
guys now trying to jet. But to be fair, it's very clear that
the Lakers had no idea. What are right exactly correct Lakers fans, Lakers
fans realized, right right, just do the exact opposite of what the Lakers
did over the last couple of years. Do not sign Russell Westbrook Ruts please
know Yeah, I mean, I think, and you're absolutely right to bring
up they are not going to create sixty five million dollars to camp dates or
I don't think they're going to go because that would require they have to waive
everyone. So Paul Reid's gone his contracts not guaranteed to the loss in the
first round. Ricky Council, the fourth who they signed at the end of
the year to a four year, very lightly guaranteed deal, jumped out in
who they signed you the team option. There's really no advantage to waiving those
guys, like they're they're earning slightly more than an incomplete roster charge. But
like it is peanuts in the grand scheme, and I think you're just gonna
need guys on chief contracts, Like I'm I would be surprised if Frickey Council
is not on the team next year. But then yeah, I like I
think it would have to trade the number sixteen pick, which is you know,
unless you're getting someone big in return, I think you're gonna want cheap,
cost controlled contracts. I know this draft is not super strong, but
just take a swing on like an older, more established you don't need to
hit a home run, like that's the luxury of having Joelle Embiid and Tyrese
Max. You don't need to swing on this like high risk, high ceiling
player that you know, super volatile, like go for a Himy Haka as
a Brandon Pajemski like we've seen what those guys can do if you can just
have them fill a role, whether it's a starter or off the bench,
Like there is value in that. So they have to get rid of that
pick, not take all any salary back, They have to renounce everyone,
so all basically the rest of their entire roster. So like I think,
you know, you will hear the sixty five million figures thrown around, but
I don't think they're going to actually get to that point. And I think
they You're absolutely right, they are going to try to bring back some of
these guys. I think they should bring back Ubra. Bobby Marks of ESPN,
actually he did a video about the six Ers offseason, said it basically
like penciled Ubray in for the room bin bubble, which is lower than I
expected for him, honestly. So yeah, that's if that's all he gets,
Like that is it easy? Easy? Yes for me? Yeah,
for sure. I mean but then again I was surprised that he was floating
around for the minimum last summer too. Yeah, and I mean he played
really wells Like it is wild to think about how it screwed the sections does
need to learn how to travel in Philly apparently, yes, yes, yes,
uh, And I do wonder if that. I mean, he had
the reputation that he did last offseason, and I wonder if those type of
off court instances like make other teams nervous, maybe that drives down his price
and that works to the stixer. Do you live in DC for how many
years and didn't have any issues? Like you should be fine? Right?
Traffic like a third You got a metro in DC. Philly in subway is
not nearly as efficient as the DC Metro. The market for this is just
there's really only one guy I'm thinking of because I don't love I think we're
seeing now like Isaaca Korro is afraid to shoot in the playoffs until fans can
he had a great season, but Castans can point to what he's doing from
three all they want. The postseason is just different. Would they ever consider
just like taking a stab at Patrick Williams and trying to maybe like either we
get him or we just inflate his price and screw over to Chicago? Is
that or do they not want to tie up their cap space for the for
the few hours that would be tied up for to do that? Yeah,
I would imagine that's like plan D or E. Like if they strike out
in the first you know, on all their top targets, then maybe you
wait until the free restricted free agent class could actually sign and maybe you screw
with other teams, cause yeah, you pull Sean Marx, like a mid
twenty ten Sean Marx and just drive out the price on other teams. I
like that idea though, and I think they they have the liberty to get
creative, which I think based on the rumors that are coming out right now
where it's just like, oh, they're going after every star player, They're
doing the exact opposite of that. I'm trying to talk myself into that being
a smoke screen, and that's like also, you know, they they are
allowing themselves to leave it. They're allowing Paul George to leverage their cap space
to right the Clippers have to pay up more for him, and they're like,
yeah, that's that's cool. We don't care. You guys aren't gonna
win the title either way. Uh So I'm I'm personally I would go two
stars. I would not go after any of these big names that we've been
hearing what about, just because it would maybe screw over New York in the
product Would you give the four year, one point four million offer to o
g Oh? I would consider it? Or yeah, I mean he's up
there. He's definitely up there. I don't know that the wild card is
his relationship with Nick Nurse. I don't know. I've heard rumblings about and
Nurse and that never having been a realistic option. I don't know if terrible,
Yeah, I agree, but so a lot of people are like a
lot of people are higher on the bonus fit when the Kings were linked to
him, and I was like, eh, yeah, yeah, I don't
again, I would do you know, the one big one wing at least
og is a wing, and you know, I think you want someone who's
who can create a little more offensively than him. But he's so good defensively,
like that defense with him and Hacious, he was doing too much self
creation towards the end of that sixth series where the he was like spinning and
dribbling to nowhere a lot, and like it didn't look terrible, but it's
just like that's not his forte and there was value in him just putting pressure
on a set defense. But it's just you're right, that's just not to
have that in someone who just doesn't generate or shouldn't be generating too much of
their own offense. The Yeah, but it's so it's like I'm I think
I was just throwing at og to see, like, well, worst case
scenario, like we set the market and the Knicks are gonna have to pay
him this now or give him a fifth year. Uh. But other names
that kind of like stand out would be like can they is KCP gettable from
Denver? Like or that do they have? Because they are another team that
has to be concerned with the second apron. I really and I don't know
if you feel the same way. I really think the idea of Caleb Martin
here yes, yep, Yeah, I think that's the thing. I think
they can. I don't know that they need to like splurge on a third
Max wing. I think they can kind of piece it together and seeing what
Uber did in the system. I also think one of the things working in
their favor is that Nick Nurse is a really good coach. I mean,
he like the results might not show it. They went further with Doc Rivers
than they did with Nick Nurse, so maybe that's going to fly under the
radar, but he got Kelly Ubra to buy in defensively in a way that
he hasn't at least in a couple of writers. And you know, Kelly
Ubray made some like dumb mistakes at time still, but I was really impressed
with what I saw on Nurse. I saw a lot of improvement out of
the individual players. So I could see that being attractive to other free agents.
And I could also see that being oh, Okay, maybe we don't
need this high end talent because we have a coach who's going to be able
to optimize these guys. And like, you know, we have ball movement,
now we have off ball movement. What a foreign concept. So my
idea is, like I think they could go swing for the KDP type,
the Malik Monk in free agency, and then maybe they go try to trade
for you know, bring back Kelly Ray and then go trade for a wing
making fifteen to twenty million. Keldon Johnson is one that's rattled around in my
brain a lot. I know it. I know a lot of Sixers fans
do not want Kyle Kuzma. I I don't believe it. I feel like
he's gotten better enough defensively, It's just do you think he's willing a slide
into more off ball stuff? And we've never seen him because Washington's been all
over the place, and then we know what kind of Lakers were under Nurse.
If you could put him in like more off ball motions and actions like
I would, I wouldn't, And that that contract is declining, like I
would add absolutely do it if it's on the table. Yeah, I mean
it depends on you know, I wouldn't give up like three first round picks
for him, but if it's like the number sixteen pick this year, yeah,
there's like when you looking at the substar trade market, I don't like
names are not immediately standing out for me that the Sixers go. I like
the idea of Kuzma that definitely intrigues me, But I'm like trying to think
of like other names that might like both of Bogdanovich is kind of interesting.
But it also comes back to are you okay giving up like the equivalent of
two firsts for players on you know, because you just don't have anything else
to offer. It's not Atlanta's gonna be like we really want to get off
Bogdanovic's contract. So we view your cap space as an asset, and maybe
they do because they they're pinching pennies forever and ever and ever. But like
it's that's just that's also what's weird. It's okay, if you get one
of these guys, you've probably exhausted at least definitely at least one first round
pick, but maybe two. Mm hmm. Yeah. I wouldn't want to
show out for DeAndre Hunter. Hey, Denny Avdia, I think I would
love to. There's no way the Wizards. I will say. I'm a
huge Denny Avia fan, and I see all these people kind of lusting after
after Denny Avdya, and I just want to note I'm not looping you into
them. Like, if you all think this highly of the twenty two year
old Washington, shouldn't move him right exactly where they're going to ask for a
ton, Like I know Lauri Market. It has been another possible or like
favorite on six or Twitter. It's like, oh, we'll get well thought
Paul Georgia trade for Lauri Market, and it's like, how are you doing
both? It's just like Lowry would be a great fit, Like he's not
someone you want to throw the full boat of picks at even I've thought about
Michale Bridges. Yeah, and just like it doesn't seem like the Nets have
the motivation because of their their own pick situation. But that's probably the worst
player that I am like going that aggressively where it cost me. I mean,
I give up all the picks if I'm the six or shrim I'm not
gonna lie just because some of those are not gonna have that much value.
But I'm also sitting there like the Nets might not do that because there's no
players. I mean the number of what is it's a sixteen pick or whatever.
Okay, that's coming back awesome. But yeah, and I mean like
every team's gonna have McHale would be my number one trade. Every team's gonna
want to go after him because of his contract. So yeah, I mean
it's it's gonna be a fascinating offseason. I think, you know, across
the league, we're gonna see this debate of I want to frame in his
big threes because like McHale could be part of a big three and he's not
a third max contract, so you can you can easily have like big three
if one of the three guys is earning half as much as the other,
yeah, or two of them are on like what the thunder eventually gonna have
where there's at least three guys, well two, So you have the two
rookie Maxes in j Dubbin Sheedholm it at some point, and then you have
Shay and then maybe because I don't know what's gonna happen with Josh Giddy,
they'd better not give him the max. I know, he just had a
good series in New Orleans. But uh so, like it needs to be
like that type of setup where it's like all these these like the younger Maxes
or even what the Knicks have, which I mean it won't last for more
than another season, but there's urgency for them too, right, Like,
yeah, enjoy this playoff ride, but like you're coming on some like really
like critical decisions because you're not gonna have this flexibility forever. Yeah, but
you know, Jalen Breath is earning half of them, Bax right now,
Like he's gonna earn twice as much after next season as he is for the
next year or whatever your plus So like I think those models are feasible but
difficult, and you know, I think I have a piece coming out of
Bleacher Report at some point about this about kind of like the how the you
know, the Suns hastily assembled this big three and just basically flip the middle
finger to the second apron and continue to flip the middle finger the second apron
and just got it swept in the first round. And in reality, when
you listen to manage twenty six, other teams trade placers with us. Oh
that that press counference. Man. The only thing I'll say is like,
if you're going to be a predatory lender, maybe that business is really good,
so perhalf they could afford the second apron. But yeah, the sixers
are fascinating, So to put a bow on it, do you think there's
like a I don't want to say a seismic move because I think we're both
in agreement that a star feels like, but like we should expect this roster
to make some this front office team makes some type of if it's not an
all in trade, it's or signing, it's okay. They they were aggressive
and we're looking at two or three guys who crack our top five six seven
players like the like new faces, not they're going to run it back to
the extent that they're kind of punting until the trade deadline or kicking the can
to then yes, I think absolutely. I mean they were lying on Nick
Batoum, who might retire Kyle Lowry, who they got off the buyer market.
He says he's not going to retire, but who knows, And even
if he doesn't, I don't think you want to be starting thirty eight year
old Kyle Lowry. He's in the regular season. So yeah, I think
they basically have to, like their hands are being forced here. I mean
Tobias Harris, there's just no way he's coming back. I would be mortified
if he came back. So, like, those are already three of your
six, the top six guys with the playoff rotation that you need to replace
for next year. Where do we want to head next? Let's let's just
say these let's do Bucks, because they are also facing some tough decisions,
not quite as honestly, kind of the polar opposite of the Sixers, where
you know the world is the Sixers oyster this summer because they have so much
flexibility, the Bucks are locked into their current core at least for one more
year and then after that, we have some tough decisions for them. But
Dame Giannis, Chris brook, Lopez, Bobby Portis pat comment and all under
contract through twenty four to twenty five. I mean, honestly, Dan,
I'm proud of Twitter, or at least maybe I've just curated my Twitter down
to avoid this kind of idiocy. But I expected more people to be clowning
both the Heat and the Bucks for losing in the first round this year,
and it just seems like the collective response was yeah, I mean, they
just got injuries, like they had no chance. I mean, to be
fair, especially in the Bucks. I mean, well, the Heat had
ever I mean, Bam was available like no Jimmy Hamay Hawkins is banged up
by the end of it. They gave up a first round pick for Terry
Rozier and then he's not available for them in the playoffs. That's a I
guess I understood the trade. I wasn't a big fan of it at the
time, but that looks even shakier now. So yeah, they had legitimate
excuses. Even Kevin Pelton wrote the piece REESPN dot com that we're on pace
to have all star players missed. More collective games during the postseason than like
not ever, but like in like like not like not even just post pandemic,
but like it's reaching levels where during the pandemic of the playoffs that we're
about to have more collective aggregate like star games missed, Which is that sucks?
Yeah, yeah, it really does. I mean it kind of puts
the Bucks in a difficult spot because you know, they obviously had a lot
of turmoil all year, start with the Dame trade, mid season coaching change,
injury like Chris Middleton, and an out of lineup for a lot of
the year. Jannis gets hurt late, so we don't have a good read
on this team. I feel like, is that fair to say, Like
I don't know if they are a championship contender as currently assembled, and I
don't know that they know that either. Yeah, I mean that is the
challenge. I will say that I think we all sort of collectively underestimate how
sometimes these really high end formations can take time. And so I would expect
Damian Lillar Johannis if they get to go through another training camp together. I
think it's really good for the Bucks. By the way, that Dame,
Everyone's kind of like, well, is there gonna be a curve ball of
a Giannis trader or another Dame trade request. Dami Lil was talking about next
season in his exit interview, and I think that's a positive. And I
would expect, especially with Doc Rivers now having the team through training camp,
that we will see more synergy between Giannis and Dame and that'll go a long
way. And I think the way Chris Middleton closed his season offensively in the
playoffs, that winds up being a big deal. I think with their challenge
more like, I'm less worried about them at the top because even if you
dig into the numbers, they're four best guys are on the court. They're
just annihilating opponents still, and so you can't play all forty eight minutes that
way. You need to get to the end of the regular season. That's
the challenge you have. Bobby Portis, he's extension eligible. That's like your
fifth and only. Like, that's where the trustworthy guys end, right.
You don't trust Connaton Lake Beasley's gone because you don't have his bird rights.
And I thought he had a really good year. I thought he defended well
for them. Everyone clowned the Bucks defense and rightfully so at points, but
I thought he put up a nice fight. They didn't, And I think
what's really bad for them is they didn't give enough run. Whether it was
under I was about to call him Darvin Ham, but under Adrian Griffin or
Doc Rivers like to not see Livingston More or Marjron Bochamp Moore. Now you
don't really know what you have in those young guys, and so it's what
can you do? They have conton salary, and they can trade their twenty
thirty one first round pick if they want to get really spicy. I was
looking in prep for this podcast. They come so close, and I don't
know if the Bulls would do this, like they could go because they can't
aggregate salaries. They come so close to being able to flip content in that
twenty thirty one pick and then if they want to include any other picks or
swaps to get Alex Caruso, but it's like he's at nine point nine million,
and I think content's at nine point five, so they can't even go
that. Man. Yeah, I'm with you, though, I think them
preaching continuity is a good thing, Like I'm totally aligned with They could be
fine if they just have more time together and they have a chance to round
out their supporting cast. It will be challenging because I believe they are one
of the second apron teams, so can't aggregate contracts, can't have won't have
a mid level exception free agency, so they've got to really nail you know,
minimum signings, any draft picks that they may or may not have.
I think that the big question I have for this team is Doc Rivers,
whether it's fair or not. I mean, he's a great regular season coach,
but he has the reputation he has in the playoffs. I'm not holding
this playoff run against him for obvious reasons, but you know, we saw
some of the same issues that have played Doc over the years, even in
the playoffs where Andre Jackson Junior gave them a big spurt of life in one
of these games, and then we're still seeing him just prefer these dusty old
veterans, whether it's Gallo or Pat dev instead of the young guys. And
we saw it, you know, we saw it with the Clippers. We
saw it in Philly where he just goes with these zoomed corpses instead of the
guys that you need to build around moving forward. And I think I wrote
about this for Forms a couple months ago. If you're a second aprin team,
I think you almost have to start building more or relying more on your
youth. And I think the Denver Nuggets have been a really cool example of
that this year, where I mean they just won a freaking championship last year,
lose Jeff Green, lose Bruce Brown in free agency and say, you
know what, We're not going to try to like patch these holes. We
in fact, they made a proactive trade during the finals last year to get
more near term draft capital, are leaning on the likes of a Christian Brown
and a Peyton Watson and realize, like, we need these guys to hit,
We need these guys to get reps, and because we've got them under
contract for multiple years, if they hit and if they can round out our
bench, we have full faith in our starting five. And I think the
Bucks, at least four to fifth of their starting five are locked in.
You know, I wonder if they are going to be willing to commit to
the young guys like they might need to, and more specifically, is Doc
Rivers going to be willing to commit to the young guys as he needs to.
Maybe the solution is just don't sign, right, they might not have
a choice, Yeah, like maybe, Yeah, it's like the moneyball,
like can't Playpenia because now we're not gonna give you these you know, we're
not signing anyone over the age of like thirty two to a minimum contract.
We're just we're going to force your hand here. I think that might honestly
be the right play for Milwaukee this summer. Yeah, but it's like the
other thing that they do think they need to be open to is and this
Bobby Portis would be the guy unless they think it could be Brook Lopez,
which I don't think it should. You might need to, especially with Bobby
FORRCET being extensional, little do you try and break him up into two smaller
contracts where it's like if if you could, and maybe you structure it as
like because you can't aggregate, but it's separate, like you have that twenty
third one pick and you have Bobby Portis, and if you can get back
Alex Caruso and Tory Craig for that deal, assuming Tory Craig opts in,
it almost is like something you need to consider because I do think that big
man play. I know Bobby Portis is you know, well had some I
mean he's just not he's not a great defender, but I know what he
can do for you on offense. But it's just easier to approximate even floor
spacers in that four or five spot mostly that like that five spot on the
cheap than it is to what we need like this wing or we need some
point of attack defense, which they I mean they need both. I would
argue just because the reserve wings or Jay Crowder who's not a wing, Malik
Beasley who's gone and it is also not a wing, and like they haven't
their actual wings like living Stone and then uh Marshon Bocham just don't have the
information on. I wonder if that's something they need to consider and whether they
will, because it's great at the top of your roster, really performed well
in like when all said and done and and together, like even if you
thought the Dame and Giannis were just connected the numbers with them on the court,
like the bet they were fine, but like you need more than like
these top four or five guys now, And I'm just I'm curious see whether
they consider it, because like even just floating around looking like the second Apron.
This is so challenging because okay, you have that pack content salary,
but it's nine point five How are you breaking that up into two smaller deals?
Really? And it's who's the best player if you dangle that twenty thirty
one pick, and for the most expensive player you want to give up,
which I would say is I'd probably view Middleton, Lopez, Giannis and Dame.
It's just the guys they're not looking to move. And so it's okay,
Bobby Portis's salary, which is sub twelve twelve million, who's that?
Just as a hypothetical, what is the best I'm not even asking you to
answer it. They're throwing it on the spot. But what is the best
package, because maybe it's not even a player. Maybe you're getting two players
for Bobby Portis. But if you put that on the thing, what is
the best package that you can actually get? Yeah, it's a good question.
You know the gain and they can't get players back by a sign in
trade either, So that's gonna close a lot of their potential options here.
Yeah, I'm gonna look at pulling up the right twenty twenty four to twenty
five salary rankings here, So Bobby Portis, well, it's like, could
you get and but like why would you do this? Is you could use
Bobby Portis to get you Matisse Stibel, who makes some sense on this team,
but you don't want to give up a twenty thirty one first round pick
for Matis Cibul. And I don't think Tiba was good enough. I know
his three pointer kind of fell off by the end of the year, but
Portland's not gonna again. We don't have enough information on Marjon Bochamp to say,
well if you kind of and then even then it's we can't aggregate salaries
and you're not. So it's yeah, I don't think people have really like
fully wrapped around their head around how much the second apron, Like, I
know we know the rules now, but like the aggregation thing in particular is
such a size change from how things have worked in the past. It's really
going to affect how a teams conduct business. It's gonna tie their hands to
an extent that they have not been tied before. Because yeah, I'm looking
at you know, just guys, I'm just gonna rattle off guys in the
like same salary range as Bobby Portis, Brandon clark On Memphis, Marvin Bagley,
Robert Williams, the third Kobe White absolutely not from the Bulls, Zubach,
Wendell Carter Junior, PJ. Tucker. They could get PJ Tucker.
He played well in Game six. Actually after he gets bought out or whatever
happens, maybe he's probably Yeah, Dante DiVincenzo. I'm gonna guess the Knicks
would politely decline Terrence Man to be so if they went, it would be
close. But if they went like strictly the bare minimum route, they do
technically have room beneath the second apron, like I think they have. I'm
but she and I'm looking as them like three point one million underneath the second
apron. And so if you really wanted to toe the line, you could
get to a point where he least aggregates salaries. Maybe that's the play,
maybe like because you because then I'm just in theory. If you went Bobby
Portis and Pat Connaton at a twenty thirty one first round pick, like is
that and Marjon Bochamps in there? Like does that like does that do anything
to just increase the I mean it definitely increases your optionality in terms of what
you could get back, but what what would actually be out? Is it
just can we just like pill for the bil Bulls, where if that's the
package, can we get Io Desumu and Caruso and throw Tory Kraigan there if
he ops in and like you kind of remake your rotation that way. Yeah,
but I'm also wondering how this second apron or even just these teams that
are willing to trade distant first round picks but it's their only like thing ken
front offices talk themselves into that as okay, like that's a the bucks is
twenty thirty one first round pick is an objectively a great asset. If you're
the front office trading for that, you more likely than not understand that you're
not going to be the front office making that pick. And so how do
you view it or sell it as the primary carrot in any deal? And
it's just is mar John Bochamp. Let's again just assuming they could aggregate,
is that enough of a immediate spetener say hey, look we got this guy
and so and again here you are able to do that, It's you still
really have to tow a crazy, Like, if you're only three point one
million dollars beneath the second apron, you have no like there's no margin for
error there. Maybe that'll be John Horst. I mean, there's all these
rumors about him possibly going to Detroit. Maybe he'll just make this move,
trade the twenty thirty one pick, and then leave for Detroit. It's like,
whatever, I'm not the one who's gonna have to deal with this.
I don't care. Well. I feel like, is it what's harder to
make the call to trade it or to be the GM or executive that says,
this is the primary asset in the deal there's nothing else. It's like
Bobby Portis is fine. Pat Conton is like, this is the primary What's
what's harder? I think it's I think it's the latter to accept that.
Okay, this twenty thirty one pick is intensely valuable. It's also six seven
years away. Yeah, I would think personally, I would say the former,
Okay, even if you aren't the one who's gonna make that pick,
that still goes on your resume is that you had the foresight to make this
deal for a far away asset, knowing that it could be extremely valuable,
and I like that's the type before we're looking the move that if I were
an owner trying to hire a front offense executive, I would be encouraged by
that, and I would be very discouraged by We are our hands are very
tired, so we're going to trade the only remaining pick that we can trade
that This feels like the quintessential team that because I wouldn't recommend even if it's
Alex Caruso. I'd consider it if you were able to get him and that
pick is included. But that's like he's on an expiring contract, he's on
the wrong side of thirty, and it's is he closing games for you?
I guess you just downsize and play him and Dame together in the back court.
That's fine, But I just don't even it seems like they're a team.
I'm getting at that they're very much gonna just have to get lucky on
the minimum market, where it's like, oh, did Chris Dunn kind of
fall through the crack skier and that gives us our you know, point of
attack defender guy to go after dudes who will still give us nothing on offense.
So it's it's such a I agree that they shouldn't do anything dramatic when
looking at their top four guys, but I do kind of think they might
need to get creative outside of the top four because I don't know, if
look at the other teams in the East aside from Boston now where you don't
just default to Milwaukee as the biggest threat to the Celtics, all these other
teams, the Sixers, the Knicks just have more optionality. And that's to
say, like, you know, the Calves are running into a pitol off
season themselves, but they're still there. And then the Magic have caps based
assets, like they could really make some noise Indy has. They still have
stuff to move around if they really wanted to. So it's it's a challenge
in some of their sense that I don't think they should do anything drastic,
but they also might need to get creative on the trade market if they want
to do anything, then both through their rotation with guys who are making more
than the minimum, because we just saw what happens in Phoenix. If you
rely too much on these minimum guys, the buck got. You could say,
lucky, you're skilled at convincing, but you're not that's not gonna be
every minimum signing, because for every Molie Beasley, there's Jay Crowder or worse
mm hmm yeah. And even the signs I mean that, you know,
I would say Eric Gordon, Drew You Banks, Josha Koge were all hits.
They also had I'm sorry to bring up Utah Watson nave as a myths,
but know that earth honestly sorry, but I don't even know as I
was just gonna say that, I think Drew You Banks ended up being a
miss. Like I just he was not good for them. And then but
also like Josha Koge doesn't really play, didn't end up playing as much for
them. So is that a hit when it's he becomes like this breaking case
emergency dude. Basically, I'm only including of the hits because they were in
their playoff rotation, and I don't know if that's a thing or a bad
thing because they got swept in the first round, so maybe maybe they had
even fewer hits that I'm giving them credit for. But even even if we
do include those three, it was like Utah Jimezi, Metsu, Kaita Bates
Jiap, all of whom they flipped for Royce O'Neil, the deadline, none
of whom really made an impact for them. Like, I think you're absolutely
right, you you have to rely on these minimum deals, but you can't
feel good about it. So you know, part of me thinks seeing what
Middleton did in the playoffs could give them some hope going into next year,
because I mean, he missed what close to thirty games this year and didn't
really look like that version of Chris Middleton, like the level up version of
Chris Middleton. And we won't if everyone is healthy, because and Giannis are
still going to be the primary vocal points in Milwaukee. But it was,
it was, if nothing else, it was just nice to see Peke Middleton
back for a couple of games. And the other thing here too that I
don't I feel like probably hasn't gotten enough run, and I honestly don't know
the reason why. But like what if you just get like what if I
just tell you that Damian Lillard is Damian Lillard next year? Yeah, Like
we kind of we saw some real fall off from like the pressure he put
on defensive with the drives and stuff. Okay, great, he had some
really big clutch moments, but like the shooting was not there for a lot
of this year, and he had some of his highest highs without Giannis,
and so like if you just say Dame is better, which is not like
not to say he has the best season of his career like he did in
twenty three, excuse me, twenty two to twenty three, but is closer
to that than what he was this year. That becomes like almost its own
free agent acquisition. Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean,
he's, you know, pretty candid about the off court stuff that he was
dealing with, and I don't know if he I would imagine that stuff is
still gonna be lingering next year, but maybe that. But I do feel
like when you've never been traded, and like it's just it was his prerogative
to get traded, although I think the Blazers kind of like they wanted to
trade him and didn't want to be the one sass for it. Yeah,
but like he that's the first time it happened in his career. It's got
to be in a like, even if he went to Miami, it would
have been an adjustment period just because he went to the team that he would
have wanted to doesn't mean it would have been Yeah, it might have been
easier, he might have liked the market better. But I think maybe maybe
I underestimated that too, Like it's not something I had factored. So if
he's just more comfortable in Milwaukee, like more settled next season, that could
be a big deal. Yeah, Like he has had this whole like friends
and family in Portland for a decade and then moving away from that, and
like you've got kids, Like it's you know, it's tough to uproot your
life, and you know, I know he had some family stuff going on
this year as well, Like it is important to remember, as much as
we tended to countess, these people are humans and have human real life issues,
you know, Like I am moving in a few months as well,
and I am very stressed about that. I you know, is it affecting
by performance at work? Not yet, but it will and there's a level
of that's what the money is for. But you can't, like you can't
just delete human reaction, human emotion from the equator. Honestly, as much
as people hate or claim that they hate talking about this like post mortem stuff
where it's transactions, I feel like I'll call it the rise because we both
know that the numbers on these things do not do well. Of sort of
the the x's and o's or celebratory or as I like to call it,
like masturbatory coverage. It dehumanizes them just as much, if not more,
because it boils down players to just x's and o's. And people think that
it's just a higher level of thinking about the game, but when you're so
focused on like, it's just another way of dehumanizing them, when you're looking
at them as exist. I'm not saying it's worse than what we're talking about
when it comes in terms of trades, but yes, there's the level of
Okay, that's what the money's for, is you need to deal with this
shit. But it's also the money is really for this can have well,
the money's for a variety of reasons, but one of them is, yeah,
you can just be moved and you didn't have no trade clause, like
you're gone. But like that doesn't that's not gonna that doesn't change the way
what it takes to adapt or how long it takes to adapt, right right,
Yeah, I think it's a really good point on like if if Milwaukee
just gets fully healthy Middleton and something next year of Dame that more closely resembles
the Damian Lillard they thought they were getting this year. Like, I'm not
ready to bury them even though they do something. I still would By the
way, I still would have made the Damian Lillard trade. I know there's
some people that think, like, I absolutely still would have made that trade.
Now, could they have done a better job of perhaps that whole secrecy
with Drew Holliday Had they not done that, could they have then maybe controlled
where Drew Holliday went, because that was kind of an undoing. They not
only did he just end up on a team in the East, he ended
up on literally the biggest like they strength, the biggest optic out of the
East. Yeah, that was not optimal for either the Bucks or anyone else
not named Boston in the East. So thank you for that, John Horst.
Do we want to go to the Clippers? I think yeah. I
was gonna say, you were talking about what the money is for a perfect
transition to the Clippers because they're they're kind of in the middle ground of where
the Bucks and the Sixers are in that they could have a lot of flexibility
this zast season. I mean they have. They signed Kawhi Leonard to the
three year, slightly below mask max extension in January. James Harden, by
virtue of just when he was traded, is not eligible to sign an extension.
He has to become a free agent. Paul George has been eligible to
sign an extension, will remain eligible to sign an extension until June thirtieth,
has yet to do so. Neither George nor Harden will ready to commit on
the spot. During their interview after Game six, both of them just said,
first of all, speaking of James Harden is a liar. Let's let's
quote him. What is his market? Who's I mean is Detroit's not even
going to give James Harden like Detroit Orlando, They're not going to do it.
I don't think, like what is the team? Where's your where's your
market? Mister Harden? Honestly, I don't know. Well, I liked
that both of those guys said they hadn't thought about it as if. I
mean, James, you've been thinking that for more than a year now,
You've been thinking about your next contract, and Paul George pretty sure you've been
thinking about it or else you want to sign the extension already. So yeah,
I do enjoy the hypocrisy there. But yeah, I think that is
the thing working in the Clippers favor for Harden is like I'm completely with you.
It's not like he has a player option that he could pick up this
time and force his team's hand and force them to tray him. I was
even trying to think because and for I know, you know this, like
the Clippers can sign and trade James Harden if they wanted to. They cannot
acquire someone via sign. I was trying to be like, it will be
the team that can maybe just talk themselves into it, and I just can't.
James Harden was their best player during the first round. Like maybe you
want to go if you want to go with zoobots there or that's fine,
But he had a good playoff series for the most part. He's the reason
I would say, this is the primary reason they won to even two games
in that series. Yes, but so he's still a very good player.
But he's and he did show that he can kind of fit into a larger
ecosystem. But like, I just still struggle to come. It's it's almost
like he's become the Julius randall of like actual megastars to where he has intense
value to his team, but it's so hard to peg which outside teams might
view him as valuable. It's a little bit easier because James Harden is the
superior player. Like I'm just trying to like, if you, let's just
say you could sign and trade James Harden anywhere, Like what is the team?
Like, what They're not gonna do that after they and Shangoon and van
Fleet. Now that would be a disaster. I just worry. He's just
the one team that just like they feel like they're gonna do something stupid,
Like you should just continue on this path, and I think you're it will
end up well for you. But if you try to continue to taking shortcuts,
it's going to backfire. Hopefully. Oh my god, that was Brooklyn
needs creations. That'd be yal well. The other thing too, I mean
it will depend on whether they can retain George. If both George and Harden
lee this is not an issue, but another one of the new fun second
apron things. You can't even take back contracts if you're over the second apron
if you sign and trade your own guys away. So like if they wanted,
if they resigned Paul George to a MAX and they wanted to sign and
trade James Harden and get back roughly equivalent in terms of salary, they wouldn't
be allowed to do it. It's just yeah, I mean picks or just
like less salary. I mean they you know, they could stay under the
second apron and take that, but yeah, that's like virtually impossible to well,
I guess it's because it's the inbound when it's not impossible, but then
you need then it has to be one of the cap space teams because they're
sending out like such an exorbitantly like it would have to be like if Orlando
really just wanted to go to James Harden round and they're willing to give you
Jonathan Isaac will maxing out James Harden and it's like that is just such an
ultra specific scenario, right right, Yeah, And I think that's gonna work
in the Clippers favor. And he's renegotiation or the negotiations the contract talks,
like so what do you think, say, who's paying you? You want
to four year max? Go find it? And he's not gonna be able
to Maybe he'll call them a liar afterwards? Was that how that went?
So? Can we just revisit that for a sect? Like all of this
boiled down to the sixers last year, I think saw the writing on the
wall with the new CBA and saw that especially stars in their mid thirties who
might be on the decline, probably shouldn't give him a four year max.
Seem like a staph or Lebron like. I think those players in that age
bracket, even Paul George, might fit into this. They might be awakening.
I think they are. I mean, I think Paul George, because
in theory Philly and Orlando are interested in him, at least has the leverage
to possibly get the full four year max. I don't necessarily think it's a
good idea, but I think he might be able to. And frankly,
the years are probably the bigger concern than the amount of money. Like if
you do three year max, I have less concern than you a four year
max. But I think the Kawhi deal was it was meant to send a
message to George Harden and you could say, oh, well, he took
less because of his injury history or whatever. He took a lot. He
took a year less than he could have, and he took ten million dollars
less than he could have. And I think as soon as he did that,
that was telling Paul George and James Harden, you are not getting afore
year max here, like, if you want to continue building around three stars,
this is the way we have to do it under this new CBA.
So I think you're absolutely right. Like these stars in their mid thirties,
especially, who have just grown accustomed to, oh, I'm gonna keep being
showered with MAX contracts for as long as I can kid you playing basketball,
I think that faucet might be turning off. And I you know, I
think Kawhi might have seen that writing on the wall a little earlier than some
of these other guys have. Imagine if he didn't sign the extension, I
wonder where that number ends up, because we all the first off people coulduba,
well, he might just go somewhere else. I'm pretty sure that even
if the Clippers traded him right now, he would just retire. But I
was gonna ask you then, though there's a chance Paul George gets the MAX,
maybe it's not because it won't be from the Clippers. Then but James
hard so looking at what his max could be, what is that? What
is that? One? Checking forty seven and point six that's where we estimated
at higher. I think it's forty nine point four. I believe. Oh
yeah, you're right. Wow, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the
wrong year my sheet. Yeah, so a five year max, Well,
he can't get a five year max to the over. Yeah, so the
four year max is two hundred and twenty one point one. That's from a
different I know actually that'd be from the Clippers, So it'll be from a
team, like an outside team can give him to twelve point two. Yeah,
and one thing, one thing to note, sorry before just on George,
before you go back to Harden. George is also subject to the over
thirty eight. So he can't get a five year max from the Clippers,
not that I think that would be on the table anyway, because they clearly
get the table. Is so weird because what is it? It can't isn't
there an exception whereas like if you're not thirty eight by October during that contract
that it's okay to fly. So he still falls under that. He turns
thirty six thirty seven yeah, so thirty eight in May Okay, So yeah,
but they so the Clippers don't have a ton of like they can offer
him to twenty one point one. Other teams can offer to twelve point two.
And California state taxes are so absurd that I think, like Frankly,
I think if the Clippers and if the Clippers in Orlando, we're both willing
to offer him a four year max, I think he would make much more
money in Orlando no state taxes than he went in California with what I'm thirteen
percent. So well, let's play this game with the two of them.
So let's keep it with Paul George knowing where their max salaries for next season
check in forty nine point four million for both of them, where is like
I don't know where to set the over under for Paul George because it kind
of feels like he's just gonna So for him, it's more of a question
of does Paul George is he making max money next season? You think he
is? I think so. If anything, I would try to structure it
like the Clippers, did you know, frontload or with the with Kui deal,
front load it and then try to shape some money off of the latter
years, so I think he gets the full max salary and then you know
whether it's a full form four year max deal and max salaries throughout, which
would be you know, fifty three point three million and twenty five twenty six,
fifty seven point two in twenty six twenty seven, and then sixty one
point two million in twenty seven twenty eight when that's the age thirty seven age
season, I believe, Uh so that's a lot of money. But I'm
I'm gonna stet the over under for James Harden's next year salary at let's go
thirty nine point seven million. Let's just use a really fucked up exact number.
Are you taking the over the under on that? His max, as
we know is well now that we don't know because I keep uh forty seven
point four, Yeah, forty nine point four excuse me? So that would
be like ten million less than his max. Would you go over on under
on it? We should probably just use forty million instead of me being an
asshole. Under forty million dollars average annual value for James Harden? Is this
what when I think it's going to happen or what should happened. No,
no, we both what should happen is no, you shouldn't. But but
look, the NBA sets itself up for this because you only allow like these
players get paid as they get older. They're under cost control for really their
first eight if you're a star, the first seven to nine years of your
career, looking at how the max works and then what so you're paying these
guys for what that you get to a point where you're not paying them for
what they're gonna do. You're paying them for what they've already done. So
that's not unique to James hard and it's not an insult to say he's not
gonna be worth that at the end of his deal. It's just that's what
That's what it is. I'm very curious what you think is gonna happen,
though, because his situation feels fascinating in the sense that it doesn't seem like
he has a ton of leverage. But you can't, like, the Clippers
aren't just gonna hardball this to the mood back, are theywhere No, you're
just gonna get another thirty five million dollar deal and then just you'll be happy
with it. Yeah, Well, let me tell you about how hard balling
Jim's hard works that they would like to a reminder that I think there was
a sign where was he going to go this time? Though, that's the
other if you want to be this is the franchise that traded Blake Griffin after
wanting like pitching him on being a Clipper for life. So maybe they would
super hardballed. Who knows, Yeah they might. Ah Man, I think
forty sounds right, Like I don't know if he goes much higher much lower.
I like they should try to get him as low as possible. Not
you know, he's not gonna get like a mid level exception, but like
I I think closer to what Draymond took from the Warriors last year would be
ideal. There's no way they're going to get him to accept that. But
frankly, I think all of the stems back from he has given up so
much money in recent years, Like the Nets offered him, why it was
like three years, one hundred and sixties million or something like that, and
he said no because he thought he was getting two twenty. And he just
continued to get the cam down the road. And it's now cost himself probably
gonna have to cost yourself one hundred million dollars, right, So I think
he's trying to recoup some of what he gave up over the past years.
But there's not even at least and we all kind of thought it was smoking
mirrors just based off their direction. But there's no stocking horse this, Like
there's no Houston Rockets, like what there's been no team that's been linked to
James Harden. No, I don't know. I mean you raise a very
good point of like who is out there that makes sense even as a sign
and trade target, Like just because of how the second Apron stuff and all
the salary matching stuff works, it's just so much more complicated, Like could
you sign and trade James Harden to Miami for Jimmy Butler In theory, maybe
you could talk yourself into it if Paul George leaves, But like these CBA
rules are going to basically make that impossible. So it's like the CBA rules
themselves probably wipe out half of the map right from the job, and then
you know the like are the San Antonio Spurs gonna go after James Harden to
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing him worked a two man game if you want
to. Yeah, Like, and that's the thing. I don't I come
off as a hardened hater because of you. He handled himself well, just
how he handled himself in his departure. Like I think the Sixers were right
to draw the line where they did. And I you know, I think
he's gonna find he's gonna realize the Clippers do it's a very similar thing.
This offseason. Really should do a very similar thing. It's offseason. But
like he to your point, he is still a productive player. He was
still a connective tissue like that. You know, the Clippers had that two
month stretch where they look like one of the best teams in the NBA this
year. Yeah, and he was a huge part of that. The past
thing has not gone away. I mean he's lost some lift. I'm not
as afraid of him as a scorer as you were a couple of years ago.
But like, he's still an exquisite passer. So, I mean,
the Wemby pairing would fun. It's just like, why are you hitching your
wagons to a thirty five year olds? Maybe view it as like, oh,
it's short term. I mean, the Spurs aren't gonna do this,
But it's oh, if it's a three year deal and it's like, okay,
this is our bridge, Like as soon as Wemby's maxed out, like
that's when we're like moving on from So we spend a lot of time with
the Clippers on about talent retention when they do need like a talent infusion.
Just yeah, I think you could use a different type of big man look
behind zoobots to where their small lineups when they went to them was basically like,
oh, Kauhajer five, or we saw people We saw PJ. Tucker
play the four actually in game in game six, which again you know that's
not the look that you want to see. Is this gonna be a team
they're limited to minimums, but it's like, we know what they need,
probably some more athleticism, someone who cares about getting back in transition. But
there's also Russell Westbrook as a player option or he could be an early bird
free agent. Are they gonna plan on paying him? Are they a team
that's gonna they could trade a first round pick? Are they a team that's
one The thing I've thought about, speaking of Hels Caruso, like PJ.
Tucker, that distant first round pick maybe some seconds for Alex Caruso, Like,
is that the you're giggling, but it's just you know, if you're
gonna keep Harden and Paul George, your window is right to hell now.
Yeah. No, I'm just giggling because I think if both bands here that
they're going to light themselves on fire thinking about going. I mean, like
you you want, just like the Bucks, you want the Clippers later picks.
Like you know, the Sixers got a twenty twenty eight fully unprotected first
from the Clippers of the Harden deal, and I think the value of that
pick has increased exponentially since that's rure. Uh, because you're absolutely right.
I mean that was one of the things that stood out in the Mavericks series
was, I mean, the Clippers throughout like most of the Kawhi Paul George's
tenure, one of the big selling points was this is one of the deepest
teams in the NBA. And one of the drawbacks of the deal that they
made for James Harden was they gave away a lot of that and a lot
of it was on the wing, Like they did not have many guys that
they could rely on in their playoff rotation with Kawhi hurt. So it's a
very fair question how do you round out the supporting cast, especially you know,
if you bring back Paul George, you bring back hardon on max or
near max deals, you are very likely going to be a second Apron team.
You're going to face the same restrictions that the Bucks will this summer that
the Suns did last summer. Like it's going to be very hard, and
I think that should honestly force the Clippers. You know, I think they're
gonna what they what Sam Amik and I forget. You know, the athletic
is releasing these like post mortems the suits. Most of these teams get knocked
out of the playoffs, and you know, am except like they want to
run back this big three. They've got the new into a dome opening next
year, Like they are going to want to retain their star power. But
you would think that just some of these high profile playmouts of big threes,
not only their own but just across the notably Phoenixes as well, would just
make them take a step back and reconsider. But to their credit, I
think they have already realized we should not just give out full four year maxims
to any of these guys, like, I think they are more aware of
how to build moving forward than the Sun. And there's also I think what's
different because matt Ishbiez feels like the human embody made of smoke and mirrors,
just sort of just like this used car, shady ass salesman. And with
Steve Bomber, I'm not saying this is the case, but in so far
as there is a at least one oder who really doesn't give a fuck,
it is probably him, but he is the guy. So there's that going
for them. But you're mentioning and you bring up something that just made me
think about it. They're in this weird spot where Paul George might be he
should be the player that ages better. But if you are going to get
rid, let's just say they decide to bust up the big three because they
want to sort of divest into multiple bodies a Paul George saw trader. Opt
in and trade is probably the route that may makes the most sense for them,
just in terms of what the roster needs, because I think we've just
like Paul George and Kuhi can't just shoulder. You need a playmaker. And
then so that is James Harden and then just in terms of the market,
there would be more of a demand for Paul George. And then you get
into the discussion, I'm honestly asking, like, how much worse would you,
like, let's say the Spurs we're interested in Paul George and if they
want a pair of Paul George, Devin Miselle, Victor Wembyama move forward,
are you that much worse if you got like a pick or two and Jeremy
Sohen and Keldon Johnson, Like is that a team like that? You could
talk to yourself, Okay, like now we have real depth and we have
guys that maybe could grow, and we have some picks to stock the deck.
But if you're I will say, if you're gonna roll this run this
back, which I'm fine with, like as you mentioned that stretch for which
lasted basically half the year where they were just dominant, then I'm almost saying,
like you're obligated to then just trade your twenty thirty one first round pick
this summer, like use that PJ. Tucker expiring, because like you need
to do the It's like you're not guaranteed, You're not even guaranteed next season
because the health of Kawhi Leonard and then, by the way, that would
be the Galaxy brain take is that it makes the most sense to trade Kawhi
Yeah and move forward with Paul George and James Harden. I mean a lot
totally out on that idea. As you said, I think Kawi is just
the risk of just saying no, right right clips Definitely, it seems like
they turned on Paul George by the end of this Oh yeah, big time,
big time. Yeah yeah. I mean to your point, the one
other scenario that we haven't discussed here, and I know you floated it in
a couple of br pieces as late. If PG, I mean PG has
all the leverage here over the Clippers because he has the interest from the Sixers
and from the Magic. But what if he said, I mean, you
know, if you're Paul George, you might be looking at Okay, I'm
I can go leave the Clippers sign with the Sixers, but I'm gonna take
up most of their cap space. They're also not to be able to or
they likely won't be able to put a strong supporting cast around me. We're
gonna be a top heavy team. So I'm just gonna be in the same
situation around another injury prone star, just on the opposite coast. What if
instead I pick up my player option, or I threaten to pick up my
player option and I or I get maybe I just go to the Clippers and
I say, look, I want to I'm going to sign with either Philly
Orlando, but I'm also open to going to these other teams, and I
will pick up my player option and facilitate a trade if you trade me to
these teams and you can work this out by June thirtieth. Otherwise I'm gone.
And notably, this year is the first year the teams can start to
negotiate with their free agents right after the Finals ten, so like there will
be a legal window in which the Clippers theoretically could say, okay, you
know, call up some of these other teams and say this is this is
what Paul George is threatening to do. You've mentioned the Knicks as a possibility,
And the more the more I think on it, the more I think
and it actually makes sense for all all parties. You know, some denomination
of like Randall mcdonovic's the salary match and then and by the way, I
think that's the motivation. Knicks fans are kind of already against it, uh,
and not just because I wrote about it, but I've seen just kind
of like, well, he's old. And but the reason you do it
is because it doesn't bankrupt your asset play. And so rather than waiting for
what you deem the perfect player to become available to one, you can't guarantee
that happens. And two, let's just say the perfect player is Devin Booker
and might be and he becomes available, shakes loose. You're not guaranteed to
have the best offer. Your assets are nice, they're not on the level
of a New Orleans. They're not on the level of Oka See. And
so you get Paul George because it costs you salary and he has the leverage
to like not dictate the package. But you know, if if you start
to have to, if the cliper is like, well, we're not giving
you Paul George unless you get Josh Harder, Dante DiVincenzo, that's a weird
spot to draw the line in the sand, and I'd be curious to know
where the Knicks land on that. But you go after something like Paul George
because since he has the leverage. The idea is you give up Julius Randall,
Bogdanovic, and then it's you give up picks, but it's not as
many picks as you would need to trade. Someone who is younger under more
contract doesn't have the leverage, a longer contract doesn't have the leverage that Paul
George does. And so if the opportunity costs for Paul George is the package
I floated even now feels too ambitious, like it was three first round it
was this year, it was number twenty four this year, number thirty eight
this year, that Milwaukee twenty twenty five first, and then at twenty twenty
six first plus Bogdanovic and Julius Randall. I would argue that maybe you don't
even need to give up that much if Paul George is the one, sort
of like maybe that twenty twenty six first round pick just isn't part of it.
And that's why you do it, because then you're still left with other
stuff and your depth. Yeah, I mean also worth noting you can't if
you're the Knicks, you can't punt on this indefinitely because Randall is an effectively
expiring contract. He's a player option in twenty five, but he's very likely
Cline unless yes, you know, gets hurt again. But Ganovich is an
expiring contract, so you have one year. You have a one year window
to make use of effectively forty five ish million in expiring money before Jalen Brunson's
up for a new deal, before Julius Randall's up for a new deal.
So like you might not have the luxury of waiting for a Devil Booker or
for a Giannis or someone else, like you need to take advantage of this
now. And to your point, if you can get Paul George on the
relative cheap relative to his talent, I think it makes sense, and I
think it makes sense like stylistically fit wise, I mean honestly, the one
thing giving me pause is who do you bench if you're the Dicks, because
I think you go with I'm still team isay Heart and sign over Mitchell Robinson.
We'll see if they keep him in free agency. They should, so
I think you go Heart, you go Heart, Heart, sign bruns in
Og and George are your locks. And then I think it's just we've seen
Tim's will favor Heart Josh Hart over Dante DiVincenzo and that's I mean fine,
but like you're still looking, so those are your top six guys. You
still have Douce McBride and Mitchell Robinson and like that as an eight man rotation
is the second best team in the Eastern Conference as of right now, unless
the Sixers pull off something wild or the Calves do something or what did the
magic add like LaMelo ball or something or the so uh like that's a real
like that's a that's a capslock rotation like of eight guys. And so I
think maybe you see and Tim' has gotten more flexible this year. Maybe you
see him kind of toggle with the start. He's toggled with the closing five.
Maybe see Hm toggle with the starting five too, where sometimes it's hard,
sometimes it's Stevencenzo so like, but it fits and you're right to the
point where it's, oh, we need the shot creation. And Paul George
is an imperfect shot creator ever we've seen. But he's never gonna be the
number one option as long as Jalen Brunson is healthy. And there's just so
much depth that it's like he's more of a two point five than oh you
have to be a two. But it's like, because Josh Hart will get
out and run, and because like Devincenzo will do a little bit of that,
or we've seen o Jannobi will attack some closeouts. I would argue,
just because the Knicks are healthier on balance than the Clippers, they might be
a team Tibodeau's view on minutes management notwithstanding, they might be a team that
is better suited to help him age gracefully than the Clippers are right now.
Yeah, I honestly think you could talk if they make that trade. What
if Bogdanovic Randall and picks no other players going out? You can see him
if the Clippers want to back up big, Like that's someone you can afford
to give up to. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. But yeah,
I mean, like we're not giving up any of the top eight rotation members
that you said. You could talk me into them being the favorites in the
East next year, or at least co favorites with the Celtics, I say,
Boston scares the shit at me, but the Christops health they're the team
where it's I don't think they need and I think Zach Low raised it this
way, So I'm kind of crimming it from this. I don't think they
need Christaps Porzingis to make the finals. They need him to win the finals.
Yeah, but I mean if we might see it in two weeks,
like you know, we might see a Boston New York series in two weeks,
and we'll see how these two match up and how close it is as
is, hopefully Chris Tops is healthy by that point. I think that Dicks
are already gonna present a lot of matchup problems for a lot of teams.
I think if you get Paul George in there, it would get significantly more
difficult to defend them. I mean, I think I would clearly pick them.
As much as we just talked sang the praises of the Bucks, that's
that they're not as good as it might team would clearly pick the Paul George.
Jalen, I'm actually surprised that's not something just even as like that.
It's come out because Paul George is looking for leverage to stay in LA that
it's been so weard towards the Sixers in Orlando, and a part of me
thinks, this is me Galaxy bring this again. I think it's like the
Knicks are gonna be the Jimmy Butler leverage situation, and I just don't I
hate the fit, but he has the connection to TIBs, so it's like
that's almost I'm like, that's the thing I'm monitoring from afar that I don't
want to happen for them because the Paul George one feels like it just makes
so. And even if you're the Clippers, I'm not saying that Julius Randall
and Bodanovich are just these home run acquisitions, but to have guys who will
add to your offense. Bodanovic will add to your spacing if he's healthy or
I shouldn't say ah because you're losing Paul George, but can help you float
some of that, and like Randall's another create. He's a better passer than
Paul George, I would think at this point. So and then to have
other first round picks where if you wanted to go out and do stuff,
you still have. Bogdanovich asn't expiring, Randall isn't expiring, and they're big
enough to where you can move them independently since you can't aggregate salaries to like
get like a real player or more back like that feels like it makes more
sense to me than sending him to Philly in a similar situation, because they
don't have players to simpath for you too. Right, Yeah, if you're
the Clippers, you could still assemble like a semi decent rotation with Paul George,
Julius Randall, and James Harden, even if it's not or not sorry
Kawhi Leonard, Julius Randall and James Harden. And then yeah, if you
need to break up Randall at some point or break up Agdanovic at some point,
that's cool. I mean, that'll help you the salary re leave alone
like Mganovitch comes off the books next year. I don't know if you do.
If the Clippers would want to be the team that commits to Julius Randall,
maybe they'd send him to Dallas, send him back home. Uh why
Dallas would commit to him at this point? But yeah, yeah, that's
been from random conversation. It's one for a different day. We need more
here for that because he would happily tee off. But I mean, I'm
I agree with you. I'm surprised we haven't seen the opt in idea at
least soft launched in the media somewhere. But then again, we didn't see
it at all with Hardened until he's just like, oh surprise, I'm picking
up my option. Like there are literally reports from I don't think the Sixers
saw it coming. I can I yes, so we'll see I think there
it's a really fascinating offseason for the Clippers, for the really for George and
Harden. But like, the the ripple effects of whatever happens with both of
those guys, even if they retain both of those guys that you said,
like, how do they round out the supporting cast around them is going to
be really really tricky and I'm morbidly curious for many reasons to see how this
all plays out. Should we spend just a couple of minutes on the playoff
series that are yeah, we're taking actual basketball, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
let's do it. So Nick's Pacers starts on Monday. What is your
I guess maybe this is the best way for personally, what is your biggest
just question or thing that you're watching sort of leading into this series. I
want to set an over under on the number of rebounds Miles Turner gets in
this series, and I guess it depends on how many games it goes,
So maybe we should do rebounds per game instead, but what like four and
a half? Is that a fair over hunderd? I mean, that's that's
the big concern I think for the Pacers. They were not a great rebounding
team during the regular season, the eighth in the league in terms of total
rebounds per game. And as we saw we saw it last year with the
Knicks against the Cavs in the first round, we thought it this year against
the Sixers and the Sixer would have a freaking seven to two Joel indeed,
even though he was on one knee. They are just such a physical rebounding
team. Honestly, I think the thing that would be concerned about as a
Pacers fan is that you know the series against the Jannis Liss Bucks and like
hobbled dameless Bucks. I don't want to take anything away from them. You
play who is in front of you. It's awesome for the Pacers who have
taken care of business. I think it took a little longer than it should
have, but good on them from advancing. The Knicks just emerged from an
all out war in the first round, like they Those series are just very
different tonally, and I think the Knicks are just more ready for this type
of grueling, physical matchup that they're going to try to drag this down to.
Honestly, I think it's going to be such an interesting contract at styles
because the Pacers are just gonna get out and run as much as they possibly
can. Yeah, but I don't think the Knicks are going to let them
do so because they're such a good rebound Nick team. So it's who who
wins the battle of styles might be the biggest question of this series. Yeah,
that's definitely the thing I'm looking for too, because the Pacers, even
as I'm using post Sakham trade, they were second in average possession time,
so the second fatch team only Washington was faster. The Knicks were thirtieth,
so dead last average possession time, And so you're looking at a team that
wants that will more likely than not slow things down. We've seen the Knicks
they'll get out and run on some of the live ball stuff, but that's
very much like Josh Hart dependent. It sort of feels like, uh.
And then if you're the Knicks, though, can you keep the Pacers?
They've been like, especially after live rebounds, the Knicks have been pretty good
at preventing teams from getting out in transition. Can you do that against the
Pacers team that is gonna look to run. But part of the Pacers being
able to do that is can they get the defensive board to get out and
run so good on the offensive glass? And do you sell out any part
of your transition offense to try and put extra bodies to keep the Knicks like
from getting those because I guess the thing with the Pacers, they'll they'll run
anyway, even on like the dead like after a score of the other team,
they'll get out and run anyway. Like, if you're gonna give the
Knicks an opportunity to get their defense set, it's just gonna be harder for
you to do that. And so this team, more so than that Bucks
team, you're gonna have a hard time, harder time ending possessions. The
other thing I'm kind of looking at is, I mean, I'm always just
looking at what is Jalen runs a gonna be able to do? It was
just the sole focal point, like how aggressively will the Pacers defend him.
I assume we saw a lot of it in the regular season, like Andrew
Nemhart on Jalen runs in will be the Maybe we'll see some Nie Myth on
him a little bit, maybe McConnell at points, but I assume Nemhard will
get the primary assignment. But how else are you going about that? Is
there anyone I know? There are players? Like, how how much will
the Knicks sell out to try and go after Tyres Haliburton like to hunt him
in the half court? And then how much is Indian turn gonna sell out
to prevent that from not happening? But well, we're gonna send two to
the ball right away or something and make these other guys beat us. And
then finally, just because we've never seen it, at least they didn't play
each other because Og got injured. I don't think right like Og versus Siakam.
I'm just assuming that those are just that's how they're gonna match up,
like on both ends of the floors against each other. That's just gonna be
really fun to see. And I'm I'm curious who do you give the edge
too? In just the NBA defense is even offense, They're so complicated.
It's never just gonna be O g versus Pascal. But who do you give
advantage to in that primary matchup. Yeah, that's a great question. I
mean you would think on the surface, Pascal, he's a more well rounded
player, but definitely more dynamic. Yeah. We just saw Og hold his
own against Joel Embi, and I mean not just straight one on one.
He had a lot of help. But you know, he has a lot
more size than like Siakam is big and physical, but he's not as big
and physical as Joel embiid So I think Og is gonna be able to at
least hold his own in that matchup defensively. And you know, to your
point, those guys, Lloyd knows, they probably went against each other in
practice for a number of years in Toronto, So this might just be like
Nick Nurse might just be having flashbacks watching this series, just thinking back to
all this Toronto days. But yeah, I mean to your point on Brunson,
I I don't know, Like the Sixers tried a lot of different stuff
on him, and they had a lot of different wings they could throw at
him. Tobias got switch on him alive, They Kelly Ubray, Nick Patoom
Melton didn't play a ton in that series, but he would have been another
option. They doubled him Brunson. I mean it took him two games to
kind of figure it out, but after that it was just game on.
I mean they could do nothing to stop him. He has you know,
I don't know how you stop the little hesitation like him driving to the basket
and then just stopping. Like if he beats you off the dribble, he's
going to draw a foul on you because he just he knows how to manipulate
his body and his driving such that he will stop and you are going to
keep running and you're gonna come flying over his back. So if you can,
I guess that's the key. If Indiana can stay out of foul trouble
or just stay out of foul trouble with regard to Jalen Brunson, don't fall
for I don't want to call it like drifting or foulbating because like, especially
for some one who covers the Fixers, like I recognize the irony and sixers
people complaining about Jalen Brunson's whistle Joela beated Kyle Lowry are the kings of this,
so you know, like kudos to him, but that is something that
the Pacers are going to have to be very much aware of in this series
that he is going to be trying to draw that kind of contact, and
he's very good at drawing that type of contact. And also, I mean,
if you have Miles Turner playing in draft, like Brunson has that mid
range game that I mean, every superstar needs, but he the floater especially,
really seemed like he got more and more comfortable with that throughout the Sixers
series as well. So I'm not I just don't know if Indiana has as
many options to throw at him defensively as the Sixers did, and even that
wasn't enough to stop him after games one and two. Yeah, I'm it's
just so it's such a contrast in styles to where you look at it and
I'm wondering. And the Knicks did get up more threes post trade deadline,
but they're seventeenth and three point ten eight out of the twenty teams that made
the play in since the end of the regular season, and so you look
at how many threes Indy made just during that and that's with Tyres Haliburton shooting
very poorly from three sub thirty percent again, which is another thing to track.
By the way is like Haliburton not seeming to get a deep when he's
like attacking. And then also just he's putting up the threes, it feels
like it does feel like he's settling actually, but they're not going into as
high clip, so you look at it. And just so both of these
things last six games, the Pacers end up making in their series eighty four
threes. The Knicks made seventy one against the Sixers. But because the Knicks
around the offensive glass and they're a team that can get to the foul line,
whereas the Pacers that's not really something that they rely on, which gives
more like what's gonna be the bigger offset or are we gonna have to see
one team? And I would argue that if there's gonna be a team that
has to sort of change their style, it might be the Knicks more than
the Pacers, just because the way the Pacers play feels like it's it's easier
to dictate terms with now the Knicks in the offensive glass, that's something that
they could absolutely but in terms of their shot selection, maybe are they gonna
have to, you know, get up some more threes in this series?
And that's where it's you know, when you kind of look at it,
Oh, is this a Dante DiVincenzo where Josh Hart or not? I mean,
it's it's not even Josh Harst is never gonna come out of the game.
But it's like, how much run is Dante DiVincenzo getting and doesn't need
to be more because he's someone that you can station out ultra deep and he'll
get them up. Josh Hart did a good job of taking the threes,
but I'm assuming that's what that's the guy and he's still gonna continue to I
would guess help or send help from is Josh Hart when he's on the floor.
And then I think, and this is I'm interested to see, like
just because it's been so long. The Knicks were basically playing six guys by
the end of the sixer series, because like deuced bak Bride, would he
you play eleven minutes in game six and he's had some really good moments.
Do we see any burnout whatsoever? You can tell me the Knicks are conditioned
for this. It's fine. I'm just curious. It's so many minutes we're
in May, like they've been. These dudes have played so many games is
there any sort of burnout there? And I don't expect Tims to expand his
rotation, like he's just gonna play seven. It's gonna be seven guys.
But Donovic is injured. And by the way, that's another kind of interesting
subplot. I know he wasn't playing a lot, but he added floor spacing
and breaking case of emergency shot creation. They don't have that. Alc Berks
isn't playing, and so did the Knicks. Like the Knicks won that sixer
series and they had some really high offensive moments, but is their offense like
even worse off in this series, even though they're going against an inferior defense
than what the just because Philly has embiid is able to throw at you,
because you're dealing with guys playing so many minutes and now it's just it's just
brunt, Like you don't even have another lever to pull unless you want to
break open Alec Burks are overstretched. Duce who can do a little bit of
that? Yeah, although does Josh Hartt continue to shoot like Steph Curry or
does he start shooting like Josh hart again? That would be I mean,
that would be like that's like the flip side of does Tyres Haliburton continue to
shoot like we think Josh Hart does? Yeah, And like you know,
credit honestly credit to Josh Hart because he I know, early in that series
he said, like I knew this was the strategy coming in, and I
spent the entire week leading up to that series, uh, you know,
just jacking up threes in practice, like I knew they were going to target
me, and he was able to knock him down. But I think to
your point, they are absolutely going to continue leaving him open. Like if
they're gonna double Jalen Brentson, it makes sense to double with Josh Hart's man.
So do they continue to do that? Does he continue to make them
pay? Here's my thing is then, does it though? Because you like
it's you need bodies on Josh Hart once that shot goes up to prevent just
like the offensive rebound, like because he's just everywhere defensively offensively like like a
magnet to the ball. And so do you kind of like, well,
should we maybe just chance helping off of just literally anybody he else because we
need to keep him from getting these getting these like second chance opportunities or ending
our own possession, just because he's so good at getting the defensive boards as
well. It's just I'm so, I'm I'm most fascinated by Nuggets Timberwolves in
the second round, but like because of just you've said it, the contrast
and styles here Knicks first Pacers is really just peaking. I mean, obviously
my Knicks ties for sure, but it's peaking my attention six ways towards Sunday.
I can't wait for that series to start. Do you have a prediction
for this one? This might be disrespectful to the Pacers, but I just
feel like the Knicks role here, I could see it. I think it
might make nick and five you did mention this at the top. They have
this maddening tendency to play worse against worse opponents, and like the Knicks are
a better team than that version of the Bucks. So I'm sort of kind
of wondering or are they gonna rise to the occasion here because the Knicks are
a better team and it feels like it almost just like a Gyiannis been available
that series, that the Pacers might have been on their A game more often.
They might have lost, but they might have just been on their a
game more often. I'm gonna go Nixon six here. I ultimately just don't
think you mentioned this already too. I don't think that there as many buttons
for Rick Carlisle to push here in this series. And I think if they
do beat the Knicks, we look back on it as the offense for the
Knicks just fell flat because they ran out of guys who could not even just
generate their own shots but make shots aside from Brunson. And then also we
saw Pascal Siakam go full what he was the first two games in that Buck
series, or Tyre's Haliburton shooting starts to look like Tyre's Haliburton again. Yeah,
And like Mitchell Robinson I know, came back in that sixer series,
still themes pretty banged up. So if he leaves again there, we're gonna
we're absolutely having a game, especially if the Knicks make it to the conference
finals where Tims doesn't sub anybody out, and maybe it's like just because mcdonovitch
is already out and Mitchell Rominson needs to miss another game and then you know
what, I'm just not gonna play deuce tonight. So we're just gonna roll
with these five the entire time and they might still win. That's what's sick.
I honestly, like I I have nothing but respect for what the Knicks
have built over the last couple of years. And they found the right brand
of Sikos for Tom Thibodeau. Like it's really it's it's an impressive alignment that
we don't often see between front office, coaching staff and players. But they
found the right type of guys to buy into the identity that Tibbs has.
And like I I think this Knicks team, especially after the Og trade,
when they were just bum slaying for like it was like a month or so
before Randal and Og got hurt and then they kind of like fell into the
radar. But like, I think they went under the radar, which is
a weird thing to say about the New York Knicks. It like they never
go under the radar. But like, I don't think people really appreciated how
good this Knicks team is. I think they are for real. I think
they could be even scarier next year if they do the Paul George thing that
we talked about earlier, make some sort of big acquisition with Randall and Magdonovich.
But I mean, I like they I don't think people should discount them.
And even if they win this series and move on to presumably play Boston
in the Conference finals, like, I don't think Boston is just going to
blow the doors off of the Knicks. I think it's gonna be a hard
fout series. I don't even know. I'd have to dig deeper as to
who I would pick for that one, but I think there would be some
people who are prepared to be like, well, this is like the knickses
Atlanta Hawks run in twenty twenty one, Like that's they just caught the right
matchups. The hobbled Sixers a Pacers team that just is fine, and it's
like, no, like this team, there's definitely something more to this.
There's definitely stuff they need to add, but this is not like an aberration
when you're looking at what they're able to do. So I'm gonna go Nixon
six, but I really just there's just so much variance to how the Pacers
play. I don't feel great about it. Yeah, the only thing I'd
be like fairly surprised by is a Pacers in five or Pacers in four,
Like I could there are definitely a world in which the Knicks just like totally
run out of gas and the Pacer would win the series. But I think
it would be a longer series, Like I think, I think the Knicks
are going in as the better team. They are a somewhat heavy favorite on
the odds market, so I could see, you know, a Knicks sweep.
I could see Nickson five. I could see a long series either way.
But Pacers winning in a short series would be a surprise to me because
I do think the Knicks just have a clear advantage in terms of talent,
and I just keep going back to the physicality man, like the rebounding.
It sounds so stupid to Hartbond, but the Sixers would have won that series
if not for the rebounding. I mean they oh, no, go ahead,
Sorry, I didn't mean. It was Game one, like they got
out rebound by twenty, and it's like every every fourth quarter it felt like,
you know, Game four, especially was they just got destroyed at the
end, like and even Game six. I think there were a couple of
key ones late where the Knickers continued to generate these possessions out of thin air
that they should not be getting, and it allows them to build these leads,
and honestly, I could also see just the wild swings that Nick Sixer
series, the Game two ending, the Game five ending, you know,
them getting up so big in Game six and then giving up the whole lead
by halftime, going down ten points in the third quarter, coming back from
that, going up late, giving that whole lead back up like they I
think that just tested them in a way that the Pacers did not get tested
in the first round, and it's going to prepare them for what's coming more
than the Pacers might be. And I would say it's not stupid to harp
on the offense of rebounding. When they boarded, it was like basically thirty
six percent of their own misses for the series, and they were like wretches.
Where at the end of it was Game six, they rebounded fifty six
point two percent of their own misses. In the first quarter of Game six,
the figures actually rebounded forty six percent of their own misses. I think
in that quarter for a twelve minute stretch is fucking wild. I'm honestly just
proud of the Sixers for not totally letting go of the rope, because when
they were down thirty three to eleven, and I was like, you know,
that game started nine o'clock, So I'm telling my wife like, yeah,
actually, maybe I will go to bed with you halftime, like maybe,
And then you know, leondready taken back the lead by halftime and I
went up to that series was so epic. It was I think the most
entertaining first round series for me since you remember that what year was that the
Clippers Spurs where it came down to, uh was it Chris Paul hit like
the game winner? It was in game seven, like basically hit the buzzer
at that that. I think this was the most entertaining first round series I've
seen since then? Was that twenty fourteen? I think so around there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like I should be more upset about
it, and I honestly, I'm surprised that Sixers. I guess Sixers fans
had just already moved on to like arguing about Jimmy Butler versus Paul George versus
branding Ingram versus two Stars and three stars whatever, so like no one's really
fixated on it. If anything, I think it just kind of solidified that
Tyrese Maxie is that dude and that really is that, dude? And that's
all that matters from the season, honestly, because that was their biggest The
non hardened question coming in was is Tarry's Maxie the clear number two? Yes
question answered, Now we can move on. Uh but yeah, Like,
I mean, the entire series being decided by a margin of one point.
And I just I loved the Nick Drissones coment four Game six was just so
fitting where he was just like nothing matters. Did you see the meme I
posted about that? It was from a oh Man, why am I blanking?
On the What's that show? From Netflix? With Jason Bateman based in
Missouri, oh Ozark And the meme is, I don't know, I don't
know fuck about shit or shit about fun, And that's basically what Nick Nurse
said. I was like, I respect it. This is a level of
Neilism that is so relatable, uh that I love it. I was gonna
ask, do we have a few minutes to spend on just Thunder uh before
we go? Before we go? I'm about to forget who's Thunder playing Thunder
MAVs. What are your initial thoughts like heading into this series and like we're
kind of fresh off that as we're recording this, the MAVs bouncing the Clippers,
so I haven't dug super deep into it, but it's kind of another
fascinating matchup too. We're just like, like Dallas plays I think understatedly super
huge, to where it's okay, you have Danja just massive for a point
guard, and then now they've just run these lineups where it's Derek Jones Junior,
PJ. Washington and then Gafford or Lively, or it's you have PJ.
Washington, Maxi Kliba, and we haven't seen them really play with another
big with that, but like PJ Washing Maxi Kliba with a Derek Joe junior,
so they could just be super big, which that's still a weakness of
the Thunder. I don't think needed to gets eyes, and they didn't at
the trade deadline. But it's kind of like fascinating to where you don't view
Ballast as this physical team, but the four on three situations they can create
in the half court with their pick and rolls. I do think we'll stress
test Okays defense for sure. Yeah, I mean we'll see Cleb I know
injured the shoulder last night. I think as we were recording. I saw
Shaan's notification about like, I think it's a full dislocation. If I saw
that, I didn't see that. I think I might have read that wrong.
So I apologize and advance h third degree dislocation. This is from Tim
mcmayon and ESPN third degree dislocation of the AC joint in Maxi Kleeba's shoulder.
So oh, he's done. Definitely perhaps the remainder of the MAVs playoff run.
And that's like, that's a kind of big deal for this that's a
huge well because now it's like everything I just said, it's just like it's
negated, so they're not as huge, but like you still have the Derek
Jones junior PJ. Washington big look, and that fared really well for Dallas
against the Clippers. The with the PJ. Washington, Gafford and Derek Jones
junior front court. Their offense actually wasn't great, but they still had scored
the Clippers by five point one points per one hundred possessions. And now you
add Lively in there instead of gafferd and it was plus twelve point two points
per one hundred possessions. And again that's without the offense kind of being elite.
And I think that's maybe the sacrifice you make is that you have these
three. You have a non shooter at the five and then two shaky shooters
relatively speaking, and PJ. Washington and Derek Jones Junior. But like they
their defense is real and like I don't know how they're gonna do against the
Clippers are they were never truly five out and like the thunder a just five
out basically what forty eight minutes a game, there's like there's none They're gonna
you know, on cork, Bismock, biumbo for the series for some reason,
that's just gonna be. So I think they will be a team.
And he shot a trillion percent from three against the Pelicans. They're gonna more
egregiously not defend Josh Giddy, I think than a lot of like then like
other teams might, Yeah, for sure, And like I know, everyone
fixates on Okay S's size and the rebounding in general as being their achilles heel.
They are, I mean, chet seven to one Giddya's six eight.
Sga is also a jumbo point guard at sixty six. Jalalen Williams is six
to five and lud Dort six to three, but he's i mean, got
a huge wingspan. It's just the lockdown defensive threat. Like I think the
Thunder actually match up kind of well defensively other than the potential of them just
getting bullied. But like, do you think who's like kind of their skeleton
key for that. I mean, and this is not like it's lou Dort
just because you mentioned he's six three six four, and it's like I would
rather see him defend Luka Doncic than Kyrie Irving because he's just built like a
brick house. And I'm not saying he's gonna get the best of that matchup,
but if you look at how much you're gonna need to pressure the and
send extra bodies at Luca, you just I think with the Thunder, even
if you want to use j Dub in those situations, and they will,
but the way like you just because of those two dudes, like even j
Dub versus Kyrie, like those are just I'm not saying you're gonna leave those
guys alone the entire time, but you might because you can. That's an
option that you just have. Yeah, you can, like honestly, switch
interchangeably between Dort Williams SGA. You probably don't want Giddy on either one of
those guys if you can avoid it, but like you know, even he
can switch on to them if you were just fully switching everything. So yeah,
I think the Thunder actually have the personnel to match up kind of like,
no one's gonna stop Kyrie, not this version of Kyrie I saw someone
created. If Kyrie had quis per personality, which is basically just don't do
or say anything, he'd be the most likable player in NBA history because of
the aesthetics of his game. And I was trying to think, like,
who's a flashy player that had like this understated, non controversial personality, and
like the answer is just Nicole Jokic. It's just like he's he's super aesthetically
to watch him. So I digress on there. I was gonna ask you,
though, like do you think this sounds counterintuitive? And I don't think
it's true, But because of how physical Luca is, do you think like
sort of the going after Chet's guy, like screening that and like trying to
get Luca onto Chet to where okay, like Chet, Yeah, we know
he's mobile, We know he's a fantastic grim protector, shot block or whatever.
But will Luca feel more confident in that matchup just because he has like
just stronger shoulders and backside, whereas that a matchup that you would see the
Mavericks. I don't want to say attacking, because I don't think Chet's a
liability, but maybe being more willing to allow to happen or go at just
because of that, or is it just is that my my overthinking that I
could see it. I mean, I can certainly see the rationale behind it.
I think Chet also just has the length and like the foot speed to
recover that even if Luca blows by him, especially like Luca's got on his
blocky knee. I know he's still dominating, but like he looks, he
never looks fast, right like, that's never his selling point. He's it's
always just his size and his physicality and his control of his body. But
he looks even slower than usual right now. So I do wonder if Chet
might be able to like it blow. You know, you can blow by
Chet, but it doesn't matter, because's gonna be able to recover by
the time you get to the rim. That he's gonna block your stuff anyway.
So like, I fully expect Luca and Kyrie to continue. You know,
it's not like they're gonna all of a sudden score ten points a game,
or like will Lucas shoot better than sub twenty four percent from three point
range in this series? Yeah? Man, that was rough last night.
I mean he was He's not even close, And that's that's why I wonder
how much the need is affecting him. And it kind of because of that
has me leaning OKAC in this series. Like if we had fully healthy Mavericks
and Mexiclebo was not probably done for the playoffs, I think it'd be probably
close to a coin flip. But if we're gonna get like eighty percent Luca
and we're not gonna have Kleba, so now they don't have as many five
out options as they otherwise would have, it just makes me wonder where it's
coming from. Like where's the offense coming from for Dallas if it's not Luca
and Kyrie and or just you know, there was guys kicking out to open
three point shooters and if PJ. Washington and Derek Jones Junior are knocking down
their threes. Cool. Do we know about Tim Hardaway's status for this series?
By the way, No, just see I mean I don't think they
want to play him, so I don't really like I don't even know if
I view it as like I guess if they want the three point shooting out
there, but I haven't seen anything more about his status since he's been dealing
with what was it, he's the ankle injury. So yeah, this,
I will say PJ. Washington like, because we know Derek Jones Junior,
they will have him on one of the Thunder's primaries. This becomes like a
huge PJ. Washington series because just this version of the clip, I mean,
he did a good job against the Colt, like the mass defense was
suffocating. Like this is different when you look at Jdubb or Shay specifically,
Like those are two completely different players. Whoever he winds up guarding more.
But I'm so interesting how Dallas's defense holds up against OKC. But I think
right now I'm leaning, especially now that you told me about this Cleveland injuries
were recording, I didn't realize the shoulder jew was that serious. I'm gonna
go OKAC in six and honestly, because Lucas dealing with the knee stuff.
I think Dallas's defense is resilient enough to win two even with that. It
just wouldn't shock me if this was an Okac in five situa. I still
think people under estimate just how dominant the Thunder are, Like they're terrifying.
I think the MAVs obviously have more more buttons to push than that version of
the Pelicans that we saw. But I think you can make the case that
who are the best Shay Gilders Alexander defenders in the West. It's probably Herb
Jones and or Jayden McDaniels, and so like, Damas just don't have a
Herb Jone. They have Derek Jones Junior and PJ. Washington and Dante Exum
and that's just not the same. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's like
hard to read into the first round series from the Thunder because there was no
Zion and but I mean they you know, Game one was close and then
they kind of just toyed with the Pelicans for three games, and I don't
think they're going to have that luxury against the Bavericks unless one of Luca or
Kyrie missed time and hopefully that isn't the case, but I'm with you in
leaning. Okay, See, I selfishly hope it goes seven, just because
I think it's going to be a really fun series. The one thing I'm
not looking forward to is all of the MVP discourse between SGA fans and LUCA
fans, and I think it's gonna be probably more. Does it matter j
Kich will be named the m v P? I think, what is it
Tuesday? Or am I missing? When's the date on that? Whatever?
Yeah, hopefully it's soon because that would kind of put it to bed,
I hope so. But yeah, well then do we have the this guy
should have been number two and this guy should have been number three? And
here, like, I think there's just gonna be a lot of pissing over
which who is better Luka doncicor Shay Gilds Alexander. I love to fight about
who's the better loser or non winner, who's the better non winner for this
award? Who is the better all for team All NBA player? Who cares
they're both great? Then you're not gonna win MVP because you Kich is still
here. So I don't I don't want to I'm just gonna like unplug from
those conversations. But I as a basketball fan, I'm going to enjoy the
hell out of seeing two of the best players in the NBA going hand to
head against one another. And it should be. I'm excited that we're gonna
have three super tantalizing second round matchups. I just can't bring myself to care
about who this like Calves, Magic Bugget, like Celtics in five, Like,
it's just I want the Magic. I want the Magic to win,
just because I I think they could be interesting. I'm not saying they're gonna
like give a real scare to Boston, but with you know, Mitchell still
bang up and Jared Allen I missed the last two games of rib thing.
Who knows if he plays on days, right, I think the Calves are
just too injured to really put I think, yeah, Orlando's defense could maybe
do some stuff to gum up Boston's offense, especially with they might have more
points of like, oh, we can sacrifice here to go here if Christos
Porzingis isn't isn't healthy. But I mean, I don't know if we're watching
Donovan Mitchell uh in that game against the magic in Game six, just in
every single point for the Calves in the fourth quarter. So it's just he's
still I don't know how he got this reputation, just someone who doesn't rise
to the occasion of the playoff. He has some epic postseason performances, So
I don't know where people are just like, oh, like this is someone
who just always disappears when it matters. I'm like, where the hell is
that? Just say something little traffic in any sort of reality. I mean,
it was the Bubbles series with him and Jamal Murray. I was like
one of the best one on one showdowns we've seen in recent years. Right,
he is like now I think second or third all time in playoff fifty
point games. Wow, total, because he has three, and I think
he's in the top five already, and he leads all active players, by
the way, So in a league that has Lebron James and Kevin Durant like
still playing obviously they didn't make it deep this year, his three fifty point
games the leader among all active players. Well, now you just gave me
something for Tyrese Maxi to look forward to in about six years. All right,
I think I think it plays for us to wrap up. So Dan,
thank you for coming on or thank you for hosting me, because we're
gonna have this go live on both of our podcasts. And I wish you
the best in the series against the Pacers as much as I I really,
I genuinely don't even hate the next like that, I think as the finest
compliment I could pay coming out of a playoff series. I know Knicks fans
got a little excited about their tastes of playoff success, which I get you
haven't had a ton of it in recent years, So go will you'd be
the seventh seed, congratulations. But I do think I do think they are
for real. I do think there's a lot to build on moving forward,
and I think, yeah they should. I hope to see them against Boston
in the conference finals. I hope we get a competitive series there. Thank
you, And I do not I'm so far like separated from my psychotic fandom
when I was younger, just because being in the business for so long does
kill at least some of it for you. I don't hate Joel Embiid.
I enjoy him. I love Tyres Maxie. I thought Philly put up a
hell of a fight but they were not. I will say in defensive Knicks
fans who should act like they've been here before. Now you won a playoff
series last year, It's like, let's add like you're in the second round.
Congratulations. This is the burden of expectations because if you lose against the
team that's clearly worse than you, even without is randal Bydanovic, there would
be questions answered. But like, let's act Nick fans, Let's act like
we've been here before, because now now we have. I will say,
Philly was not your typical seven seed. No, that was like the stuff
that they were doing with Tyres, Max and Joel and be at the beginning
of the year. So that was a fun series. Thank you so much
for having me Slash, thank you so much for coming on. It was
my pleasure on both counts, and honestly, everyone follow us both on Twitter.
You could find at the NBA Pod and then download this episode twice at
both of our do this on the NBA pod, go subscribe to Hardwink Knocks.
If you're listening to this on Hardwine Knocks, go subscribe to the NBA
Pod. Honestly, for NBA Pod subscribers, Dan and Grant do a ton
of great work and pump out way more stuff than we do, So please
go subscribe to them if you want a ton of great NBA coverage. Dan,
for your sake, I hope that you don't do the every team preview
this year because I know how much time that takes. But I know about
I'm thinking about digit it this year, but people love it, rest Ashore.
If I do it, I'll need you for the sixers. So I
know. I know you might be planning like a hiatus or something, but
you're not getting it from this podcast is not happening. Let's just hope Darryl
Morey makes his moves early in July. I am keeping my fingers crossed that
like by July fifteenth, I can walk away from them. That'll be done,
especially because now that I think teams will even though they would have had
a hole on it to begin with, Now that you could talk to your
own players after the final, we're just gonna see moves line up like big
bang boom, even faster that It's like, oh, free agency is done
five minutes into its starting. How did that happen? Well? Because Lloyd
knows the teams never talked to their free agents before this year. No,
never unless DeAndre Jordan. Gotta make sure Nuggets got to make sure that you
have DeAndre Jordan. They never got panalized. I'm still mad it broke at
six o'clock. What are we doing? Did you right the League office?
I wrote an article about it. Of course you did. Yeah, Well
that guy can cobscribe me the NBA pod. You and more can go like
you can make the Bulls sound compelling, more can make the Bulls compel.
I enjoyed the I enjoyed the all NBA discussion where you two couldn't decide and
you were just like fucking throwing beyond there. Then honestly, I mean,
he's fully pivoted into being a Spurs fan, and I think it's the correct
call. And if there are any other Bulls bands listening out there, Spurs
and Thunder where like you need long term viability, it's the Spurs and Thunder.
Brian and I will be having a spinoff where recover only the Thunder,
since it seems like localized contents a lot more popular than what we do now
in terms of podcasting anyway, So look forward to us launching our Thunder podcast
in the year. We're coming for you, the uncontested and okay see topic
thunder whatever they're called, and there's other what's the one at the Athletic We're
coming for all you. No one claimed thunder Buddies yet, we need to
just claim it before we're the thunder buddies. I already have the LLC set
up. Good, We're good, perfect, good, good good, all
right, Well, thank you dad. It's always fun chopping it up with
you, and we will we will definitely catch up soon because Yeah, I
absolutely want to debate this three star, two star of three max stuff at
some point because I think it's Honestly, I think that is the biggest conversation
that needs to be had across the NBA this offseason. It seems like fans
are starting to catch on, but I think it's it's gonna be that is
the dividing line moving forward, and we're going to start to see it this
summer. Yes, we have to do that. Thank you for having me.
This was fun and slash, thank you for that's good