1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,240 What's up y'all is Drewski and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,720 hilarious new basketball podcast called The Due Zone with Drewski. Learn the backstories of 3 00:00:08,759 --> 00:00:12,240 your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,160 team? Wasn't the Raptors at the time? Or no, was the Raptors 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,920 even started on the top? Come on, brode like I'm fifty, Taylor 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,719 Rogues, Asian Wilson, and any more. You won't want to miss this. 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,760 Listen to The Due Zone with Drewski on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:33,240 wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, there, we have Blue Wire wanted 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,439 to thank you for your continued support of this podcast. With over ninety podcasts 10 00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:41,240 across our network, we are committed to bringing you great content to fill that 11 00:00:41,359 --> 00:00:45,359 sports shaped hole in your heart. To find more Blue Wire Pods, search 12 00:00:45,439 --> 00:00:49,359 for us on iTunes or check out blue Wire Pods dot com. And remember, 13 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:54,320 one day sports will return and it will be glorious. Thanks for listening 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:11,200 onto the show. Hey Hi, hello, Hardwood Knox listeners. I am 15 00:01:11,239 --> 00:01:15,560 Damp Valley coming at you without my co host Andrew d Bailey. I am, 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,640 however too, I am super pleased. However, excuse me to be 17 00:01:18,719 --> 00:01:25,079 joined by good friend, longtime colleague Bleacher Reports National MBA columnist Grant Hughes. 18 00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:29,280 Follow him on Twitter at gt Underscore Hughes. As I say all the time, 19 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,400 he does not tweet often, but when he does it is gold. 20 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,480 Before we get started, we have what I thought would be a fun pod 21 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,560 for us to do today. Just want to shout out our sponsors that make 22 00:01:38,599 --> 00:01:42,159 this podcast possible. That would be bet Online, dot Ag and Blue cho 23 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:46,079 You will be hearing from them momentarily so to help us out, you can 24 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:51,560 use those promo cos. Another quick housekeeping note the historical decade player ranking pods 25 00:01:51,599 --> 00:01:53,280 that Adam Frammel and I are doing. We will get back to them next 26 00:01:53,319 --> 00:01:57,680 week. But he told me advanced he was going to be busy this week 27 00:01:57,719 --> 00:02:00,239 and we have nothing but time, so we're gonna We're gonna get through those 28 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,359 team by team. Don't you worry the Detroit Pistons fans. We have not 29 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:08,039 forgotten about you, Grant. How are you doing? Just living that quarantine 30 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,759 life? Got a home haircut, feeling good, not looking good, but 31 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:15,639 doesn't matter. Right scale of one to ten relative to the circumstances. How 32 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,319 did your wife do with the do it yourself haircut? Okay, so yeah, 33 00:02:19,879 --> 00:02:23,960 I undersold it. So I paid her this compliment, And this is 34 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,560 the highest compliment you can pay to a home haircut, which is that unless 35 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:35,120 you were looking very closely, I'm not sure you'd know that a civilian administered 36 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,879 the haircut. So so that's that's that's the praise I can give it. 37 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:43,000 I feel pretty good about it. But I will also say that hats are 38 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,599 a larger part of my wardrobe than they once were, but overall, my 39 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,639 happiness level is high. Did you ask for one to ten? If it's 40 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,840 one to ten, I would give it an eight. Wow. Yeah, 41 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:55,599 I mean if you if you phrase it to her exactly that way, she'll 42 00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:59,560 probably want to renew your vows right on the spot. I mean I pretty 43 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,840 much did so, although I didn't say eight. Maybe I should have given 44 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:07,199 the number, but but yeah, no, I listen. One of the 45 00:03:07,199 --> 00:03:12,639 things you want to look for in a life partner haircut skills, because you 46 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,400 never know. Right look where we are today, you gotta you gotta think 47 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:16,879 about these things. That's something for me to keep in mind from my next 48 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:21,560 marriage to me. No, my wife is offered to cut my because I 49 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,039 complain about it. I'm on day as we record the sixty nine of not 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,280 having a haircut, and it's very not nice. I look like a fucking 51 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,319 porcupine because of the way I normally stop my hair and it grows out on 52 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,439 the side, not down. So I'm really just if you thought I was 53 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,240 ugly before, like I'm ugly af right now, and she's offered to cut 54 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,639 it. I'm just like, you're not going to do a good job, 55 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:43,479 Like, let's not go I don't want to be mad at you, Like, 56 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,800 let's not go through this. And she's like, yeah, I kind 57 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:46,919 of know, but you're bitching so much that I feel like I need to 58 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,360 offer. Yeah, you're gonna have to give in. I think you'll realize 59 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:57,199 it's just at some point, the equity you earn by entrusting and empowering her 60 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,560 to do this is worth is worth whatever level of bad the haircut is. 61 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,719 Yeah, I think once I get to like week ten, I think I'm 62 00:04:04,759 --> 00:04:08,080 at my breaking point now, Like ten weeks is a long time. Who 63 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,800 goes ten weeks without a haircut, even when you're trying to grow your hair 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,519 out, the Lopez Twins. All right, fair enough, we do have 65 00:04:15,639 --> 00:04:19,839 actual basketball to talk about, not because there is actual basketball happening, but 66 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:25,800 we came up with a concept where we want to imagine NBA players who are 67 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,279 basically sidekicks, maybe they're number three options at this point, that we want 68 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,040 to see in a number one role. Ord be cool to see a number 69 00:04:32,079 --> 00:04:35,560 one role. Yes, maybe they're best suited in their current role, but 70 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:40,160 it would just be cool to see them take on more responsibility as the primary 71 00:04:40,199 --> 00:04:43,240 guy for their team. We're not saying they need to be traded. This 72 00:04:43,319 --> 00:04:46,199 is not a trade pod it could be on their current team. We're not 73 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,480 again, we're not even saying it should happen. It's just a fascinating case 74 00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:53,600 study. And I think before this season a few of the players that might 75 00:04:53,639 --> 00:04:59,000 have sprung to mind immediately would have been Bradley Beal, Pascal Siakam, Draymond 76 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,399 Green. Don't want to see Raymond Green be more of a primary ball handler 77 00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:04,079 ever again without Stephen Curry on the floor, I will tell you that right 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,720 now. But now we've seen that from Beal with ball out, we've seen 79 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:13,040 that with Pascal Siakam just taking on more offensive responsibility without Kawhi Leonard there, 80 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,639 though, I think you could still argue there might be another level for him 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,879 to get too, since he does have Kyle Lowry and Fred van Fleet. 82 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,920 But that's the type of players that we're looking for, and so we each 83 00:05:21,959 --> 00:05:27,040 have names written down. We're going to go back and forth and just cross 84 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,439 off as we go. So Grant, without further ado, who is the 85 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,759 first player that you selected? Well, I do have some further ado before 86 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:40,399 I get there, which is so when we were texting about this, and 87 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:44,639 I sort of like I sort of took the approach you did, but also 88 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,600 it seemed to me like implicit in the question was kind of you know, 89 00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:53,240 what players do we think? And these are often second options, like you 90 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,639 said, are maybe being helped or hurt by their system or their situation, 91 00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:00,720 but we're not sure because we can't just like you, pluck them out and 92 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,079 put them on another team and see what would happen. So guys that like 93 00:06:03,399 --> 00:06:05,920 for me, but there are a lot of guys it's like, yeah, 94 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:09,199 you know, he's number two, what would it look like if you were 95 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,360 a top option? But it's also just guys that like I just kind of 96 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,360 want to know what their current situation or how it's affecting the way that they 97 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:19,879 play, and that might mean they're better or worse somewhere else, but I 98 00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:24,480 kind of just want to find out. So my first guy is sort of 99 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,480 probably in the mold of what more like you were thinking of, which is 100 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:33,800 CJ. McCollum. And you know, I think everybody acknowledges he's just like 101 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:39,000 he's he's a really good, high usage, you know, get your own 102 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:44,680 buckets type of guy. But you know, there's in addition to sort of 103 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,120 a duplication of resources in Portland, I think he's always one of those guys 104 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,920 that gets brought up in a let's break up this group type of thing because 105 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,560 I think there is a sense that if he had his own team the whole 106 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,800 time, he might do okay or better than that. But but we're just 107 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,560 not sure really, And so what what's interesting to me about him with Portland 108 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:11,040 is that you know, he is in the eighty eight eighty eighth percentile or 109 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:15,240 above among guards in usage rate. So that's with Dame Lillard like he you 110 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,759 know, he gets his touches and he's a little bit above average from an 111 00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:23,519 efficiency perspective, for his position. I'm just using cleaning the glass for this, 112 00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:28,839 so there might not be more there, But I'm interested to see if 113 00:07:28,879 --> 00:07:30,560 if he were put in a position where he had to be more of a 114 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:36,639 facilitator, if he was someone that, like you really entrusted to run pick 115 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:42,040 and roll all the time and you know, just had a higher leverage, 116 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,360 higher usage position, like what that would look like. And and he's an 117 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,079 interesting guy because he does so much mid range scoring and he's such a weird 118 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:53,959 has such a weird kind of crafty in between thing. He might be a 119 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,800 guy that like is a floor raiser, but doesn't you know, ever get 120 00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:01,600 you to, you know, serious competitive levels if he's your top guy. 121 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,959 But he's someone that I'd be interested to see what that would look like. 122 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:09,240 That of Portland. Yeah, and I'd agree with you. He was on 123 00:08:09,279 --> 00:08:13,839 my list two and they've i think staggered them him from Lillard a little bit 124 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:16,399 more in definitely this season. I'm not sure about last season. I can't 125 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:22,560 remember, but the returns have not been great since over the past five seasons. 126 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,399 In fact, the best Portland's offense has been with CJ McCollum on the 127 00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:31,040 floor without Damian Lillard is the thirty eighth percentile in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, 128 00:08:31,439 --> 00:08:35,600 and so that could speak to a lack of depth on the Blazers. There 129 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,840 are a lot of things that go into that, and I tend to think 130 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:41,399 that if you put CJ. Mccollumb in that primary role, he would be 131 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,799 closer to a floor raiser than say like a zach Lavine, where he feels 132 00:08:45,799 --> 00:08:48,919 more like a like a floor preserver, where he's just not going to elevate 133 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:52,519 you at all. He doesn't make his teammates around him him better, and 134 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,960 so I would be more insted to see that. And in part it does 135 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,360 seem like his game sort of clicks or becomes more valuable in the playoffs, 136 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,960 because you're talking about all the in between stuff that he could do. He's 137 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,320 never really though been saddled or needed to, I guess, be more of 138 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,679 a playmaker, and so I guess that would be the big question mark. 139 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,120 That's also why for people who think that the Blazers should just trade CJ. 140 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,519 McCollum, break up that backcourt, maybe get a wing in there, or 141 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,519 just a different type of player, it really just can't happen unless you know 142 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,240 you're packaging other stuff with him, if you're looking to make an upgrade, 143 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,799 or then you're looking to just completely restructure the team, because I don't think 144 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,519 anyone's trading for CJ. Mccolluman wants to see him as their number one, 145 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,759 because it feels like there would be limitations there. I would still like to 146 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:37,639 see it, though it feels like he has a would have a better chance 147 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,559 of succeeding than some of the other guys who have a larger influence or just 148 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,519 more playmaking responsibility within their offense. Yeah, I think I think his approval 149 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:50,320 rating to me, like among fans, which sort of informally seems really high, 150 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,279 like everybody kind of likes him. But I think that might change for 151 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,440 the worst if he would, say, you know, really high volume, 152 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,240 less efficient, not play a lot of defense, lead guard on another team. 153 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:03,679 So I think, as will be the case with several of these, 154 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,960 we can sort of fantasize about what it might be like if you were elsewhere. 155 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,600 But it sort of feels to me like he's actually in like the best 156 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,720 place he could be right now, other than unless, like you know, 157 00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:18,200 if Portland had like a point guard that you know, could just lock up 158 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,399 whoever the tougher backcourt matchup was. But all things considered, he's in a 159 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:26,039 pretty good spot. I think at Tension Hardwood Knox listeners. With currently no 160 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,679 NBA, NHL, or MLB, you might think that there's nothing to bet 161 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,320 on. Well you'd be wrong. Our exclusive partner, bet online still has 162 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:39,600 hundreds of events, games and props to wager on, from their online casino 163 00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:43,279 to poker and blackjack. They're bringing Vegas to you. Missing the NFL no 164 00:10:43,639 --> 00:10:48,440 problem. Bet online has live daily Madden NFL twenty simulations you can bet on. 165 00:10:48,799 --> 00:10:52,600 You can also bet on Survivor, Big Brother, American Idol, stock 166 00:10:52,639 --> 00:10:58,200 prices, even the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest. All open twenty four hours 167 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,559 a day and all online. Use promo code blue wire to join today and 168 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:07,279 receive your new welcome bonus. That's promo code blue wire all one word bet 169 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:13,600 Online. You're online wagering experts. Since I had c McCollum as well, 170 00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:18,000 My next one is a healthy Klay Thompson. We've seen just what Draymond Green 171 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,039 can look like around fewer superstars, and I know he didn't really give a 172 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:26,279 damn this year, but it still just wasn't pretty for me. With Klay 173 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:30,120 Thompson, I feel like he's become underappreciated. And maybe it's because Golden State 174 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,679 has had so much star power. Maybe it's because the defensive splits are so 175 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:35,679 bizarre. But we know what he can do defensively. He's one of the 176 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,279 best on ball defenders in the NBA, and there is more to his game 177 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,440 than just being able to fire up off the catch super quickly. He has 178 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:46,679 a little bit of a post game. I think he can put his head 179 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,360 down and get buckets from scratch. You've seen him hit these pull up jumpers 180 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:56,759 off the dribble before. I don't know if he has necessarily another playmaking level. 181 00:11:56,759 --> 00:12:00,639 Maybe that would be the big problem. But could you maybe see him 182 00:12:00,759 --> 00:12:05,039 influencing an offense on a Devin Booker level or is that too ambitious for someone 183 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,799 like him? Well, so that's that's the question, one hundred percent. 184 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,960 That is the question is what does he do if he's got the ball a 185 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,480 little more basically and you know, famously whatever he is can score sixty points 186 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,919 with four dribbles or whatever. It is, so like few guys have the 187 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,879 ball less than he does. But there is there are some like encouraging signs. 188 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,039 You know, I was looking at his pick and roll efficiency as a 189 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:31,960 ball handler, and over the last four years he's never used more than seven 190 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,360 point two percent of his offensive possessions as a pick and roll ball handler. 191 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:41,519 So these are all incredibly small sample sizes, but eighteen nineteen he was in 192 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,639 the ninety eight percent dial in scoring efficiency as a pick and roll ball handler. 193 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,600 Seventeen eighteen he was really bad, But the two prior years sixteen seventeen 194 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,600 and fifteen sixteen, he was in like the top twenty five percent. So 195 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,120 the thread of his shot means that you know, if you're defending a pick 196 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:00,799 and roll, even in the mid range of those really rare, weird ones, 197 00:13:00,799 --> 00:13:05,519 which actually he runs more of than most guys, you can't leave him. 198 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,000 You have to stay glued. And he's gotten really good at that little 199 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,200 pocket bounce pass. It's the reason that he can make are not you know, 200 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,360 he's not the guy that is going to swing it to the opposite corner 201 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,320 over the heads of three defenders who are taking one step in the wrong direct. 202 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:24,440 He's not like that kind of facilitator. But he would be serviceable. 203 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,879 I think as a guy that you know, primarily you want being Reggie Miller 204 00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:33,200 just sprinting all over late ray Allen running everywhere, tying the defense and knots 205 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,320 and just catching and shooting. But I think he does have a little bit 206 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,240 more in terms of ball handling stuff. I don't know if the overall package 207 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,879 would be more valuable than what he's doing now, but I think there is 208 00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:50,879 definitely evidence that he could be something more than he's been through obviously what's been 209 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:56,720 a ridiculously good career to this point. Yeah, they've accounted I shows have 210 00:13:56,759 --> 00:14:00,240 accounted for so little of his offense that this probably isn't even worth mentioning. 211 00:14:00,279 --> 00:14:03,399 But over the past four years he's only ranked below average and ISO efficiency wants, 212 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,480 and so maybe there is just a little bit more to plumb there. 213 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:11,200 I will say, are you at all or do you maybe maybe do you 214 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,480 attribute it to just the circumstances under which this season took place. Are you 215 00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:18,200 at all surprised at how bad Draymond Green was this year? I mean, 216 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,720 I so, I guess I was always when Draymond was like had his peak. 217 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,399 I was always one of those guys that pushed back on the hes a. 218 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,840 He's a product of the system. I mean, obviously that's true to 219 00:14:31,879 --> 00:14:35,039 some extent for him, maybe more so than most players, But to me, 220 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,320 when he was at his best, like where does his defense not fit? 221 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:43,759 Right? Like, where does a guy who can defend five positions and 222 00:14:43,879 --> 00:14:48,039 pass and you know, grab and go off of defensive rebound and make the 223 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,799 right play, where does that not fit? I mean, that fits anywhere 224 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,720 any team would want that. But I think this year he was totally checked 225 00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:00,000 out, which I get and he you know, is also the type of 226 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,399 player that's undersized and you lose the quarter step for him, and it's just 227 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:09,039 a devastating, you know, deterioration in his effectiveness because he just doesn't have 228 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:13,000 the athleticism to spare. So I think a lot of that contributed to how 229 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:18,240 bad he looked. But I also am leaning more now towards like there's really 230 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:24,200 no question that for him to be not honestly like exploitable by the other team, 231 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,960 he needs Steph Curry and Klay Thompson out there because there's just the shooting 232 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:33,039 is just such a problem. And so yeah, I think I think it's 233 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:35,639 it was a revelatory year. I think in a lot of ways for him, 234 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,799 that's probably a good way to put it. Who else who did you 235 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,919 have after that? So we've gone through KLAYE. Thompson and CJ. McCombe. 236 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,000 Was quaie on your list, by the way, he was, And 237 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:50,320 I sort of I flipped it a little bit, just real quick. So 238 00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:54,120 Andrew Wiggins is someone that this is the opposite of the question, right, 239 00:15:54,159 --> 00:15:58,440 because now he's going from a bigger role to a smaller one with the Warriors, 240 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,639 and I'm curious what that might look like. And you know, he 241 00:16:00,679 --> 00:16:06,120 was basically the same guy on the Wolves and the Warriors this past year, 242 00:16:06,159 --> 00:16:07,600 which is to say, like about as good as he's ever been, which 243 00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:12,639 is also to say not really that great. So I'm curious about that. 244 00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:18,039 But but yeah, so for my next guy, I'm interested in Jamal Murray 245 00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:25,519 just like as a just in general, like so stagnated growth wise this year, 246 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,919 sort of had the same season over again, which is a little discouraging. 247 00:16:27,919 --> 00:16:30,639 But he's still so young that you know, I'm not I think it's 248 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:37,320 insane to start thinking a guy that young has leveled off. But so playing 249 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,480 with Yokich is just such a such its own strange thing, and I would 250 00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:47,759 be curious to see what he could do with more of a playmaking responsibility, 251 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:51,240 which the Nuggets just never gave him. He like, so it's not just 252 00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:56,200 yogic. Murray played two hundred and sixty one possessions this past year without Yokich 253 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,639 or Morris, and so that's like nothing, right. So the Nuggets clearly 254 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:06,440 don't it. Trust is too strong of a They're not really interested in finding 255 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:11,799 out what Jamal Murray facilitator looks like right now. But I think he's got 256 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:15,519 another couple levels to go overall. I think he has the size you want 257 00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:18,759 in a combo guard. I think his shot is just so projectively gonna be 258 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:22,680 better. And then I think the next phases, can he be like your 259 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:29,880 real high high end secondary playmaker or if we move him somewhere, what's it 260 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,640 look like when Jamal Murray is running your offense. We don't know that yet, 261 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,920 But I'm kind of optimistic, which I feel like is almost a contrarian 262 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,880 play after the somewhat disappointing year he's had to this point. Right so, 263 00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:45,680 he did not make my list, and I would probably take the more pessimistic 264 00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:49,920 view on him. Part of that I might just be colored by Denver giving 265 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:55,960 him the no brain or five year Max's ridiculous at all. But he's been 266 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,480 you know, you mentioned, he's been the same player like that he was 267 00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:00,359 last season. Essentially, if you look at his her thirty six minutes splits 268 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,680 over the past three years, there's just not a lot of movement there, 269 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,599 a little bump and playmaking, and yes, the Yokich factor is there this 270 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:14,160 year though, the Nuggets were in the forty sixth percentile when he played without 271 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,400 Yokich in general of offensive efficiency, and I actually think that's kind of impressive 272 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,519 because if you look at those lineups, what's strupping was one how much he 273 00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:26,200 played with not only Monte Morris but also Will Barton at the same time, 274 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,440 where okay, wow, Denver really might not trust him to handle the ball 275 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,440 or playmake for people full time. But also within those lineups, like there 276 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,240 weren't these terrific floor spacers around him, and so when you're dealing with that 277 00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:41,480 problem, it's harder to have closer to an average offense. And so I 278 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:47,119 would actually take that as more of an encouraging sign. I don't know if 279 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,599 I'm in the camp of, hey, I want to see you know, 280 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,400 Jamal Murray get the type of opportunity that Bradley Beale has gotten in Washington, 281 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:56,640 where it's what happens if he is all of your offense and you're removing that 282 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,200 primal playmaker at or removing that middleman whenever you want to want to call him 283 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,680 and really giving him the reins. I would watch it like it's definitely something 284 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,000 that's intriguing, But for some reason, he was not one of the players 285 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:11,920 that immediately came to mind for me. So you mentioned Bill, which I 286 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,759 feel like is kind of the the the guy that has a lot to do 287 00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:18,920 with this topic in general. Do you do you think that this was Bill's 288 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:26,200 best year? I think it's tough to you look at the efficiency and it 289 00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:30,039 wasn't. But at the same defense too, he just didn't play defense. 290 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,240 Yeah, and I don't really factor that in as much to the number one 291 00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:37,240 option status just because you know, James Harden exists and so yeah, hear 292 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,960 that. But my whole thing is when you look at the level of shot 293 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:47,720 difficulty on the attempts that he's taking just incredibly hard, and so the fact 294 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,400 that he's hitting them at all, and then I really for someone like him 295 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,039 when you look at the on off offensive splits where it's not just oh, 296 00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:59,119 their offensive rating declined by a zillion points, it's that they actually had, 297 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,960 you know, an offense that ranks in the when he was on the floor, 298 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,200 it was like the eightieth percentile or something. And that's with dogshit talent 299 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,200 around him for the most part. You know, there were some guys that 300 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,400 had pretty good years, as Schmith was fine, mol Wagner was pretty good 301 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,400 when when he was healthy. But you're just looking at that talent around him, 302 00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,200 and you know, eighty first percentile, since I just checked it when 303 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,680 he's on the court offensively eighteen percent tile when he's off, and so someone 304 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,039 who can have that type of impact, to me, I might argue that 305 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,480 it's been his best season, maybe not individually, but with the impact, 306 00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:34,279 with the value that he clearly has to this team. Now, I think 307 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,480 that the argument is there. Yeah, No, That's why I asked, 308 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,680 is I don't I don't know the answer. I think I think it is 309 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,359 a question though, because you look back and just looking at sixteen seventeen, 310 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,559 which was before he'd ever made an All Star Game, and his scoring efficiency 311 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,240 was as good as it ever got. His true shooting percentage a percentage was 312 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,240 up over sixty percent, which for a guy that was fairly high volume even 313 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,359 then, pretty impressive. But but yeah, I think we learned that we 314 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,960 learned something different this year, which is that if he's just the guy, 315 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:10,119 your offense works, which which I think probably means this was his best year. 316 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,680 But but I don't know, it's it's it's interesting. He's the perfect 317 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,799 test case. It's just because rarely do you get a situation where a guy 318 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:21,119 plays with a certain setup and certain teammates, like one day and the next 319 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,839 day it all changes with John Wall getting hurt, and I guess i'd say 320 00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:26,000 he succeeded. Is it is it my turn or your turn? For the 321 00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:29,200 next guy? I think it's mine, But I think I would agree with 322 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,240 you with Biel, And I guess maybe the other case would be was last 323 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:34,319 year his best season just because you still played a ton without Wall and you 324 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,119 were just more efficient overall. He shot fifty four point eight percent on twos. 325 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,400 I mean the fact that he shot over fifty one percent on twos this 326 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,880 year, though, is kind of mind blowing. It is, Yeah, 327 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,440 not a lot of easy shots for him. My next guy, I think 328 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:48,519 he's probably sort of an obvious one. I'd be a little bit surprised if 329 00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:55,720 he didn't make your list. But Chris Middleton and the narrative of the Bucks 330 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,519 not having a second star, or even to me, the one that's been 331 00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:03,759 more complimentary is they don't have a conventional second star, Like I'm out on 332 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:08,160 it scant few takes to me have become more outdated than that one, just 333 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,680 because when you look at what Chris Middleton can do to use those disclaimers feels 334 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:21,480 really reductive. And so the Bucks offense is absolutely great when he plays without 335 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,359 Janis attent Tokompo, And yeah, there's there's something about his game. It 336 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,160 definitely stalls out before he gets to the rim, and a career low fifteen 337 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,720 percent of his looks are coming at the rim this season. But that he 338 00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:36,359 can run pick and rolls, that you can have an above average offense with 339 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,160 him on the court, that he's proven he can hit those tough pull up 340 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,960 threes, that he's shown that he can score out of ISOs or really in 341 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,079 the post. And I know his ISO efficiency this year, last time I 342 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,720 checked it, it really wasn't great. But he's been fairly serviceable in the 343 00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:53,480 post. If you're gonna throw it there to him. I feel like, 344 00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:59,039 no, can he be the best player on a championship team? Absolutely not. 345 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,359 Could you put him in Bradley Beal's shoes and him have that type of 346 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,039 impact around what you would call suboptimal talent. I really think that he could, 347 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:15,079 and I might just be you know, I don't even know what influence 348 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,039 too much, but I'm going to use influence. I don't know how many 349 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,400 time I'm gonna say that during this podcast, just what he's done this year. 350 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,480 I also think there's just a case to be made that he's been one 351 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,640 of the ten or twelve best players in the league in general this season, 352 00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:30,880 and almost playing next to Jannas senta Coupo does him a disservice because people think 353 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720 he's benefiting so much from that, and yes he is. You know, 354 00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:37,480 he doesn't have to lead a team against a full lineup of opposing starters. 355 00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:41,480 I totally get that. But I think he's shown enough times in the regular 356 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,480 season and a few times now during the postseason that his game translates really well 357 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:49,759 and that he's good. He's a good enough of a playmaker to uplift the 358 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,480 players around him and so I would actually love to see him in sort of 359 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,440 a number one role. I don't want, or maybe the better way to 360 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,839 put it is, I at least want to see him be accepted. Since 361 00:23:59,839 --> 00:24:02,160 I'm not someone who's going to be like break up the Bucks. I want 362 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,720 to see him be accepted as a viable number two that people can just admit, 363 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,799 you know what, he could be. Put him as a number two 364 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:10,400 on a different championship team that doesn't have the best player in the league, 365 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,359 and that's a number two that you want. He's a fascinating case. And 366 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,200 actually I feel bad that I didn't include him, but I as I was 367 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,319 thinking about who I would add, I kind of decided that and this is 368 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,279 the wrong way to approach it. It's just impossible to know because to know 369 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,960 what influence the being on the Bucks and playing with the honest really has or 370 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,839 to be, you know, it's something it's impossible to be sure what difference 371 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:41,160 that makes. And I'm receptive to kind of either side of that argument of 372 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,519 well, it makes life easy on him he's never the top defensive priority, 373 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,039 or it makes it hard on him because, like you said, he's just 374 00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:52,599 perceived as this, you know, high end second option basically, but as 375 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,599 I'm as you're talking, I'm looking it up and like the Bucks offense was 376 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,960 one hundred and sixteen point eight points per hundred sessions with him on and Yannis 377 00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:07,039 off that, which is phenomenal in ninety fourth percentile, they're just net rating 378 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:11,160 because he's also you know, he's a good defender. Their net rating is 379 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,880 plus point one. This is cleaning the glass, so no garbage time involved, 380 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:18,960 which is phenomenal. And the other thing with with him is as you 381 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,119 were talking, is you look it up, like so he's been ridiculously efficient 382 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,640 this year. That's that's the main difference is he's taken his scoring efficiency to 383 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,880 another level. But he his usage is like roughly the same every year since 384 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,279 fifteen sixteen, which is before Jannie was you know, capital g Jannis, 385 00:25:36,759 --> 00:25:41,440 and his scoring efficiency was really really good too. So it's not like the 386 00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:45,799 rise of Jannis has just made everything so easy for him that you know, 387 00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:48,079 he's got inflated stats or whatever. He's it's such a he's a really good 388 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:53,759 passer, underrated passer. I just yeah, I think I think I agree 389 00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:57,200 that you know, there's I don't know how many a half dozen guys that 390 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,559 you'd say put them as the best play on any team, and it's a 391 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:07,119 contender. He's not that, but he's definitely I think the Bill comparison is 392 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,880 really interesting. He might even be better than Bill if he just had, 393 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:14,480 you know, a not so good team and had to do everything. I 394 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,359 think the evidence is definitely there based on not just this year, but we've 395 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,279 got five years now Chris Middleton being really freaking good, right, And so 396 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,640 I looked this up too, so over the past three seasons where his ISO 397 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,880 frequency is fluctuated, but in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, when it accounted for 398 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,559 about ten percent of his offensive possessions fifty seventh percentile of efficiency. Last season 399 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,920 it accounted for almost sixteen percent of his offense. He was in the ninety 400 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,240 second percentile. And this year it's more than twelve percent of his offense and 401 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,680 he's in the sixty fourth percentile. And those are just solid things. And 402 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,279 then what I've almost done two is imagine, like Jason Tatum, if he 403 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,240 was the level of playmaker that Chris Middleton is, I think people would probably 404 00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:57,920 argue that Jason Tatam's is the best player in the NBA at that point, 405 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,119 I do think he probably doesn't bit more defensively off the ball and his game, 406 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,480 even though maybe you want him to get to the room more. It 407 00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:08,279 doesn't stall out that like Middleton's does, like there's there's a clear concern there. 408 00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:11,279 But when again, when you can dribble into pull ups over players, 409 00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:15,559 when you're so efficient in the mid range, when you can work in the 410 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:18,079 post, maybe it's just not as not as important to do that. And 411 00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:23,000 so I would welcome seeing him as the number one for some type of stretch 412 00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:26,880 with a Bucks or if he ends up with another team at some point. 413 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,960 The hope of Milwaukee obviously is that he doesn't, but I would be fascinated 414 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,519 to see. Maybe I end up being totally wrong, but I could see 415 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:34,720 him being one of those players that you know, similar to how it turns 416 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,559 out Pascal Siakam didn't need Kwhi Leonard, I don't necessarily think that Chris Middleton 417 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:44,720 needs Yanni's attentakopo to contend to win a championship, absolutely to be the face 418 00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:48,599 of an efficient offense. I don't necessarily think that's true. You know what's 419 00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:51,440 interesting about him too, and this isn't the point of the exercise. But 420 00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:56,400 he's six eight, so his you know, twilight years are going to be 421 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,920 Joe Johnson esque playing power forward, except with you know, just a more 422 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,279 well rounded game than Johnson had and some defense. So he like his shelf 423 00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:08,640 life as a as a significant contributor is much longer than than for a lot 424 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,880 of guys because he has the size to hold up against this, especially modern 425 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:15,920 fours, and he's gonna have all, like all of his skills as they 426 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,720 deteriorate, we'll just continue to look good as he's guarded by bigger, slower 427 00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:23,759 guys. So like factor that into if you're thinking of him as a top 428 00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:27,319 option, like he might, he might last for a while at this level 429 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,039 of production. So I don't know. Yes, we are all fans of 430 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,039 Chris Middleton. I think we can agree on that one. Guys, are 431 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,400 you looking to last longer than the value of a New York Knicks first round 432 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,799 draft pick? Get the blue Chew dot Com. Bluechu dot Com has the 433 00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:48,119 first ever chewable that brings your performance in the bedroom to another level. They've 434 00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:52,960 got the same active ingredients that are in Viagra and sallists, so you know 435 00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,440 they work and Since they're chewable, they work faster. You can take them 436 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,119 anytime, day or night, even on a folk stomach. Plus you don't 437 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:03,359 need to go to the doctor's office or spend time waiting in the pharmacy wide 438 00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:08,319 blue Choo's online physician is free of cost and once approved, your ordership straight 439 00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:12,000 to your door in discrete packaging. Here's a great deal for you guys. 440 00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:17,559 Visit bluecho dot com and get your first order free when you use promo code 441 00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:21,920 blue wire all one word, just pay five dollars shipping. Again, that's 442 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:30,079 a blue chew dot Com promo code blue Wire. My next guy, I 443 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,480 don't want to go too off the board. I had another guy that I 444 00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:37,200 sort of it's a Wigan situation where I want to see the opposite but and 445 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,319 that's I'll just do it real quick. That's zach Lavine. I want to 446 00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:44,079 see zach Lavine play for like a Boston where he is not allowed to do 447 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,440 all the zach Lavine high usage stuff and you just sort of trim like twenty 448 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,000 percent of the fat off his game. And somehow, since Boston gets everyone 449 00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:55,039 to do it, play defense and what he looks like as a third option, 450 00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:57,640 he might be like the best third option in the league potentially, but 451 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,920 that's a separate bos boss him by the ways the New Spurs I've decided, 452 00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:04,319 which is used to be, like, oh, what would the Spurs you 453 00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:08,160 know, player development staff and they're ahead of the curve, you know, 454 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,920 how they deploy guys and how they use talent. What would this guy look 455 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,559 like there? Now that's Boston. You know, they get Marcus Morris to 456 00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,519 play really well, they get washed Gordon Hayward to still contribute. Al Horford 457 00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:22,400 sucks after he leaves. Like all Daniel Tys is good now, right, 458 00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:26,359 Daniel Tyes is a great defensive center. They just like they just make guys 459 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:30,839 work. So I want to see Levine there. My next guy is smart 460 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,599 run his own team just for the memes that would ensue. See, I'm 461 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,680 a little concerned about that team's uh scoring, but uh my, So my 462 00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:45,119 next guy is Fred van Vleet because him, So, you're you're more I 463 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,920 thought about him, but I didn't put him. So you're you're more courageous 464 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,960 than I I respect well or stupid? So and and like there's a decent 465 00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:57,880 chance we get to find out, right, we'll see what free agency does 466 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:02,880 if he ends up sticking or not, I find Toronto on pretty much keeping 467 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,119 him. I don't know the Knicks are gonna get give him stupid money. 468 00:31:06,519 --> 00:31:07,039 It'll be on the table. I don't know if he takes it, but 469 00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:11,480 the Knicks are going to offer him stupid money unless they dray for CP three. 470 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,559 Excuse me, I forgot about that scenario. We do. We have 471 00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,599 like a three hour podcast to talk about that. Honestly, could we just 472 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,799 say if this had happened. I don't really think there's a way for the 473 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,359 Knicks to preserve enough cap space. Well, well they could. They could 474 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,599 use their cap space then if they guarantee a certain amount of contracts I work 475 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,559 through the scenario I know would be undersized. I would pay pretty good money 476 00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:34,880 to see a CP three Fred van Fleet backcourt. That's all I'm gonna say 477 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,640 it. I mean, like, defensively, you're giving up nothing those guys. 478 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:42,240 It doesn't the small guard thing is not a factor with those two. 479 00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,759 So right there, you're set. Yeah, I'd love to see it. 480 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:48,000 Never gonna happen. They're not gonna get either of those guys, I don't 481 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:53,519 think. But so the case for Van Fleet's pretty straightforward. As far as 482 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:57,960 this goes, I mean, you know, he sort of everybody realized after 483 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,119 the playoffs last year, once he caught fire that he could be sort of 484 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:07,720 that type of player spark Plug could defend ones and twos exceptionally well, deflects 485 00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:12,720 every pass that's within like a half mile of him, and could get hot 486 00:32:12,759 --> 00:32:14,480 from three, all that stuff. This year, he was just like a 487 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:20,960 really good point guard across the board, huge leap as a facilitator six I 488 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,400 think six and a half assist a game, not looking at it, but 489 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,039 big jump from before. The three point shooting is great again. He doesn't 490 00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:32,799 surrender anything defensively, just bite being small. I could see him just being 491 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,720 like a top ten point guard in the league, or being viewed that way 492 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:40,960 if he had his own team to run again. And I almost hope we 493 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,559 don't find out, because I just like Toronto as it's composed right now, 494 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:49,359 with you know, him and Siakam kind of being the core going forward and 495 00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:52,319 Og and an Obi obviously, but yeah, I'm interested to see what he 496 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,119 might look like. I think he really has the game to scale up. 497 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,240 There's he hasn't really and it's hard to see, you know, I can't 498 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,559 at the time he spent without Siakam and Lowry. This season it's sub six 499 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,359 hundred possessions, which is fairly sizeable but not really enough, and the Raptors 500 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,920 offense in that time ranks in the twelfth percentile. The issue with Toronto is, 501 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,720 though, is that they just have limitations offensively from their supporting cast if 502 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:20,759 you're not named Terrence Davis, and so it's hard to really draw conclusions from 503 00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:22,440 that. Then Sergeibaka, of course, and then a lot of those minutes 504 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,799 aren't coming with Mark Gasol because he hasn't been he hasn't been healthy this year, 505 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:30,599 and so when you are the primary option, like you still need talent 506 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,440 around you, and so he really hasn't seen but the bench units that he's 507 00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:38,240 led in general without Kyle Lowry before Pascal Siakam took on all this ball handling 508 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:43,119 responsibility, I think those were a clear sign. I remember the Delan Right 509 00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:47,359 Fred Van Fleet bench lineups. They were just straight destroying people for basically like 510 00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:51,160 not so much last season before the trade, but definitely this season before. 511 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,640 And so I'm with you, I don't necessarily and I think I speak with 512 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,480 all these players. Maybe there's a few where I'm like, this needs to 513 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,279 happen. I don't necessarily want to see it because I like, you know, 514 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,920 just Fred van Fleet fleets fit in Toronto, just like the persona that 515 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,159 he has, and just how it seems like he's this mini Kyle Lowry on 516 00:34:07,239 --> 00:34:12,280 defense. So but I do I agree with you. I think, first 517 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,920 of all, I think you can make the case that he was a fringe 518 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,960 top ten point guard this year. He was certainly top fifteen for me, 519 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,639 And so if you actually give him the keys and make him the offensive engine, 520 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:22,320 there would be a pretty good chance to me that he delivers. Yeah, 521 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,559 That's why I hesitated it is because as I was trying to think, 522 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:27,800 you know, off the cuff, well where does where does he rank? 523 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,480 It's like it's like on a permanent basis, he's way up there. It's 524 00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:34,079 just it's that's the whole point of this is, well, what does it 525 00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:37,280 mean that he gets a fair amount of time against second units even though he's 526 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,280 a regular starter. What does it mean that Siakam just suddenly is a guy 527 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,920 that you can just give the ball to all the time, that he also 528 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,239 has Lowry? It's all these variables make it hard to know I don't know. 529 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,679 I he's just he's just This is not great for a statistically driven argument, 530 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,880 but he just is a type of player that I feel like is it 531 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,760 has the competitiveness and has the sort of like middle finger to the world like 532 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,360 I'm under I've been undersized forever. Just he just has a ton of game. 533 00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:10,599 So yeah, again, I like him where he is because I think 534 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,679 you couldn't ask for a much better spot. But but I just want to 535 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,519 know what it looks like. This is one where I actually want to see 536 00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:22,039 it happen because I think for this player to reach his apex or to be 537 00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:25,400 the player that everyone thinks he can be right now, he needs to get 538 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,000 there. Shake Gil just Alexander for me, and I think what we've really 539 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:32,679 seen is that, you know, he might be one of the most underrated 540 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,679 scorers in the NBA right now. There's just like, you know, he 541 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:43,000 has the nice in between game. His three point clip is down this year, 542 00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:45,280 but he's still above thirty five percent while creating more of his own opportunities. 543 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,760 His rookie year, under ten percent of his mad threes came off assists, 544 00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:53,159 and then this year that number is over forty three percent. And so 545 00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:57,199 there's been a clear jump there. He has like a little bit of change 546 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,960 of pace to him in misdirection when he's inside the arc. The question for 547 00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:05,599 me is, I could see a scenario where he's just hitting off the dribble 548 00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:08,320 jumpers, hitting even more of his floaters at higher clips, and then his 549 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,559 mid range game. Like I said, it's clearly there. The question for 550 00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,760 me is will he ever be that type of facilitator? And there were too 551 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,800 many fail safes in Los Angeles, even though there weren't stars, but you 552 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,360 had Gallo and Tobias Harris for a lot of the season. Lou Williams was 553 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,800 there, of course. And now you go into Oklahoma City and you have 554 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,800 Chris Paul, you have Dennis Shrewder, which you know, maybe that's not 555 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,280 saying much. Even though Dennis Shrewder's having a really good year, it does 556 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,880 seem like he's tilting more towards hybrid wing than combo guard. And I want 557 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,239 to see because I think inevitably maybe it gets to that point in Okay see, 558 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,239 particularly if they do end up trading Paul this summer, can he actually 559 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,119 be that engine for in offense? And this year it was not pretty when 560 00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:57,519 he played without Chris Paul, Oklahoma City's offense was in the twelfth percentile. 561 00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:00,639 And a lot of those minutes are coming with Most of those minutes are coming 562 00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:04,400 with Shrewder because they don't really play him at point guard. So I want 563 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,320 to see him in a situation where, you know, maybe he don't have 564 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,239 to be the point guard, but I want to see him be just the 565 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:14,320 primary ball handler and see how that offense ends up faring. I think I 566 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,280 think he's a fascinating figure for all the reasons you suggested. Is like we're 567 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,679 not even really sure what position he tops out at, you know, like 568 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,239 because he's six six and he's not even twenty two yet, so he should 569 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:30,440 he'll he'll fill out, and then he should be fine guarding, you know, 570 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,280 all but the biggest wings. So point guard isn't necessarily you know, 571 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,880 given for him going forward, and his assist numbers are are underwhelming for sure 572 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:45,360 for his position. But like I would love to bet on a guy that 573 00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:49,639 is this young, that just has he has like his level of craft and 574 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,679 feel on those weird in between, like he's into the lane, there's like 575 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,559 he's pinna guy on his back. He is there's a big in front of 576 00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:01,880 him, and he just has this innate, you know, ability to whether 577 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,599 it's wrong footing the guy or scooping this shot this way or spinning back this. 578 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,760 He just has all these little weird things that you can only really chalk 579 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,159 up to feel. And I don't know if that's coachable, And so that's 580 00:38:14,199 --> 00:38:17,960 just gonna play how you know, however big he gets, or however he 581 00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:22,039 however much he improves his his you know, court vision and willingness to move 582 00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:27,199 the ball and all that stuff. So I think in addition to wondering what 583 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,039 he looks like running his offense, I just wonder what he looks like with 584 00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:34,840 some experience, because a guy that has so many like old man skills already 585 00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:38,440 to me only profiles as someone that's going to look a lot better as he 586 00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:42,119 hits you know, mid twenties. So so yeah, I like, I 587 00:38:42,119 --> 00:38:44,719 like that pick a lot. I haven't seen he has like a pretty good 588 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,960 feel to pick and roll, but I haven't seen like anything that makes me 589 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,039 think he can be like a much better pass or maybe make more complicated. 590 00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:54,920 And he's only a sophomore, so there's the caveat right there. But I 591 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,760 feel like I've seen it, and this is stupid. Sounds stupid because he's 592 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,840 ataging more assistant Jason's him, But I feel like I've seen Jayson Tatum make 593 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:06,880 some more complicated reads, whereas maybe just Shay Gilbongxander hasn't gotten enough of those 594 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,599 reps. And it's not that I want to see it. I just feel 595 00:39:08,639 --> 00:39:12,920 like he has to get there, and because I don't think he can necessarily 596 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,159 exist as this hybrid wing if he wants to be the best player on a 597 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,719 really good team, and so it's never really gonna happen, so let's just 598 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,320 see it. I'm actually chuckling trying to say about Chucky right now because after 599 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:28,960 recording Jannie's Twitter clearly got hacked, like hack hacked he has. I'm not 600 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,079 going to read some of them, but he's tweeted just in succession. Fuck 601 00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:37,320 Chris Middleton. I want to play with some actual shooters. He tweeted, 602 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,440 I'm going to the Warriors with prayer hands emojis. He tweeted at Stephen Curry, 603 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,639 this is X rated, as like, no, well, look someone's 604 00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:46,719 using their quarantine time. Well yeah, he tweeted Stephan Curry, what if 605 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,679 it was real. I hope it's real. Wouldn't be great. We have 606 00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:52,760 so much to talk about. There's no he said. Way he said to 607 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,679 Stephen Curry tagged him, said I fucked your wife. So this is definitely 608 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:01,239 not Yann but it is like, oh man, so well, stinkodbye to 609 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:07,119 Jannis on Twitter for a while. Yeah, that's a fucking king James. 610 00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:09,559 He tried to hire a hit man on me. Wow, okay, but 611 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,320 sorry, That's just why I was laughing and trying to get through that because 612 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,119 I was seeing this show up. What professional focus by you. I would 613 00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:21,159 never held that together. It is your turn, though, Okay, so 614 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,920 you can mute and laugh all you wanted. So this I feel good about 615 00:40:24,199 --> 00:40:29,119 these this. So I've lumped two guys together, and I alluded to the 616 00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:32,760 Spurs earlier. So this Dejonta Murray and Derek White. I think we've reached 617 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,760 the point now and I will just think of them in tannem even though they're 618 00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:42,800 pretty significantly different players but a similar ish position, et cetera. So I 619 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,039 feel like the Spurs now are the opposite of what they used to be, 620 00:40:45,679 --> 00:40:51,480 where you know, just you look at the guys that leave, like Davis 621 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,559 Burton's is the obvious one where it just seems clear that san Antonio did not 622 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,519 understand what it had and was just not willing to play in a way that 623 00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:05,760 maximized him. And Derosen being there and Aldridge being there are huge complicating factors, 624 00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:10,840 especially for ball handlers and theoretically point slash combo guards like Murray and White, 625 00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:20,440 where like, if your offense is significantly dump it into Aldridge or pick 626 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,239 and pop Aldridge, or de Rosen clears out and works his way to a 627 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,079 mid range shot, or de Rosen in the midpost. There's just not a 628 00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:31,159 lot of opportunity for guards to kind of spread their wings and take on larger 629 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:37,639 roles and just sort of do traditional backcourt player stuff with those two guys on 630 00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:39,840 the team and in an organization that is starting to feel like it's a little 631 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:46,519 bit strategically kind of behind the curve. So Murray, obviously we just know 632 00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:51,920 nothing about him because he had of the ACL injury. He barely played as 633 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,960 a rookie. But I think as a you know, a low usage guard 634 00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:58,920 now, I wonder if he could be a higher usage guy as his shot 635 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,360 comes around. His deep is always going to play, and White is somewhat 636 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,880 similar. So I guess, I don't know. I'm kind of getting down 637 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,119 on the Spurs. I guess is what I'm realizing it is. I just 638 00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:14,519 want to see what teams or what guys that are sort of quote unquote stuck 639 00:42:14,679 --> 00:42:20,280 there look like when they get loose. And Murray's under contract now for what 640 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,199 three more years. I don't know if it even kicked in yet. It 641 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,480 might be four, so we may not find out. But but I think 642 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,159 both of those guys are really interesting to think about playing someplace else. I 643 00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:30,960 actually did have de Jon Day Murray on mine, and so I'm with you. 644 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,280 I don't know that he's he just turns the ball over so much in 645 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,239 transition and when you are able to go under pick and rolls, I think 646 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,679 defenses are more inclined to do that against him than Derek White at this point. 647 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,280 Definitely an issue, but he actually made my list because I would. 648 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:45,760 I would love to see it. And you're also like, maybe we're you 649 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,199 know, you say we're down on the Spurs, but we're also sort of 650 00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:52,000 cowtowing to like that Spurs. Mystique still where it's well, you know, 651 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,320 maybe they still do have a guy on the roster who's worth seeing alone. 652 00:42:54,639 --> 00:42:58,320 De Marta Rosen needs to get out of there though. It's just that's not 653 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,719 anything against the Marta Rosen, who I'm not super high on, but he's 654 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,079 I mean, he's a pretty efficient scorer for what he does. But it 655 00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:08,559 just doesn't work when you look at how limited Murray and White rs shooters. 656 00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:13,639 I know they both shot threes and long twos and are fairly okay clip this 657 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,400 year, but just the volume isn't there. And so that's what I'd be 658 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,159 curious to see. Two in Murray's case as well, is can he get 659 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,800 shot volumes up if he's given a more more prominent role, and so he 660 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,719 would definitely be someone for me. Yeah, for sure. I think I'm 661 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,119 cheating on this one because I have one that I thought was like a little 662 00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:34,800 bit off beat, but it's really it's really not. It's just off beat 663 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,920 because of the team makeup right now, this one's sort of cheating. I'm 664 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,719 not sure if it's legitimate, but Ben Simmons, let's just see what happens 665 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,519 when you surround Ben Simmons by all shooters and everyone says like there could be 666 00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:50,000 a Yannis type of effect. I don't think there would be, just because 667 00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:52,599 Jannie is at least willing to take jumpers, and like he has like a 668 00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:57,199 Falloway jumper to his game, it's not the most efficient shot in his arsenal. 669 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,519 Ditto for the pull up three, but like Ben Simmons isn't even taking 670 00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:04,039 those. But I still want to see the returns when you look at offensively 671 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,840 how the Sixers play over these past few years, when Ebiad isn't on the 672 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,239 floor, it's not great. But I do think part of that's at least 673 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:14,760 semi related to how the Sixers have been built, particularly this year, So 674 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,800 I just want to see him in a different type of situation. I don't 675 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,679 think the Sixers should trade Ben Simmons or Joel Embiid. That should be a 676 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,320 last resort, and I don't think they're there yet. But I also really 677 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:29,679 want to see Ben Simmons on a different team or just a different different version 678 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,719 of the Sixers. And that's not evenna saying that I want them to trade 679 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,599 Joel Embiid, but just because of how great his vision is if you give 680 00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:40,239 him legitimate four out lineups around him, because he has Embiad shoots threes, 681 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,119 but He's not the most efficient three point shooter. Al Horford was always pretty 682 00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:46,880 efficient relative to his position, but like he was working out of pick and 683 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:52,519 pops, which the Sixers don't run. So I want to see just basically, 684 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,159 Simmons doesn't necessarily have to be the center, but you need a center 685 00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:59,079 who can really hit and take threes out of a high at a high knock 686 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,719 them down at a high clip out of these drive and flips. So I 687 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,519 want to see something like that. And I don't know if we'll ever get 688 00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:08,079 to see it, and if it happens, will happen in Philly. I 689 00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:13,599 honestly don't know. But he's someone who I'm curious to see how he would 690 00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:15,280 fare in that type of role, if only because would it make him maybe 691 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,360 more of an aggressive score? Are we going to see him maybe rely on 692 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,519 a floater a little bit more in that type of situation because we know we 693 00:45:22,519 --> 00:45:23,400 can kind of do a little bit of stuff in the post, and we 694 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,840 just knows as much as defenses know where he's going to go. He can 695 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,719 still get to the rim and finish at the rim really well. And so 696 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,920 I think there's a better offensive player there. I just don't think the personnel 697 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,239 on the Sixers. I do think that he and Joel and By can co 698 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,559 exist. I just feel like the rest of the team isn't really built to 699 00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:45,960 that capacity. And even with that in mind, I would still like to 700 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,760 see the more extreme version where it's really just four out around Ben Simmons. 701 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,039 So indirectly, I've been actually thinking a lot about the Sixers lately, and 702 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,840 so I'll flip it. I think, for sure Simmons is like one of 703 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,840 the most interesting guys to think about in a different situation, whether that's a 704 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,960 different Sixers, set of Sixers teammates or playing somewhere else. But so I've 705 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,000 been doing these redrafts for Bleacher Report over the last couple of weeks, and 706 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,559 so you're sort of forced to think about like alternate possible histories, right, 707 00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:21,280 and so as I'm going through it, and obviously the Sixers had all these 708 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,840 high picks because of the process, and I'm getting into situations where instead of 709 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:30,639 Simmons they have Siakam and Embid or they have Jason Tad. Again, they 710 00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:35,559 don't do faults, they go so in a theoretically you get a situation where 711 00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:38,159 you have Sam, Jason Tatum and Embid and then suddenly it's just like, 712 00:46:38,199 --> 00:46:42,280 how easy is this? How much easier is all of this? So to 713 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,679 me, I think, what's to flip it? What does embide look like 714 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:51,119 without Simmons? I agree that there's a possibility they can be a title winner 715 00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:57,280 together, but just it's so easy without Simmons because in this past season was 716 00:46:57,519 --> 00:47:00,880 one of the most dominant post players like we've ever seen in a year. 717 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:05,920 He just absolutely destroyed everybody in a in a points per possession basis from the 718 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,400 post. So what does that look like if instead of Simmons being ignored you 719 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,000 have Siakam or Tatum or just pick your star wing that they had the draft 720 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,440 assets to get instead of Simmons. And suddenly the Sixers are like, well, 721 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,400 what how do you defend this team? It's impossible? So I think 722 00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:25,519 I would go the other way and say, what does Ebid look like with 723 00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:30,119 a normal set of you know, second star and you know role players around 724 00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:34,880 him as opposed to sim Now you can look at the different on off splits 725 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,480 and how they how they play with and without each other. But I think, 726 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:43,199 to me, it's just like endlessly fascinating to imagine what a what a 727 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,679 sixers. Look team looks like for a full season in playoffs with somebody sort 728 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:52,960 of equally productive but in a different way than to Simmons. As as as 729 00:47:52,000 --> 00:48:07,440 Inbiad's number two, Did I lose you? I was on mute? Excuse 730 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,679 me? I was so as of right now, not reimagining anything. Do 731 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,199 you think that Simmons is a top twenty player in the NBA? I'm so 732 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,239 bad at this. I'll tell you that I took Siakam over him in the 733 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,159 redraft at Siakam went ahead of him. So I don't know what that says. 734 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,480 I don't know. I think that's in that's that's a reasonable range. 735 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,280 He's definitely not top ten, like, I don't think there's any argument for 736 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,440 that twenty. Yeah, sure, like he's in that range of top twenty. 737 00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,960 Maybe if you consider the fit issues that he presents, he ought to 738 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,760 be lower than that, but he's just so ridiculously productive and such a good 739 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:52,199 defender that that maybe that's about right. Who do you have anyone else written 740 00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:55,679 down? I got one more and it's a short one and it's it's it's 741 00:48:57,519 --> 00:49:00,000 so, here's here's the reason for it. I'll keep giving you back story. 742 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,679 I read this. I read something by Joe Varden, who I think 743 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,559 is with the Athletic and they were it was because everyone's doing last Dance content. 744 00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:09,559 He was talking with Kevin Love about the last Calve season and what it 745 00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:15,480 felt like, and it felt to me like Love was a retired guy that 746 00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:21,039 was like reminiscing about, you know, the old days, and he seemed 747 00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:22,760 like, I don't know, he had he had perspective on it, and 748 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,000 he seemed a little like wistful, a little bit sad about it. And 749 00:49:27,039 --> 00:49:30,320 it made me realize, like, Kevin Love is still good. He's not 750 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,639 you know, maybe call him overrated, call out the defense, he can't 751 00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:37,159 guard, you know, whatever, but Kevin Love is still a very good 752 00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:40,639 basketball player who, in theory should make other good basketball players better because he's 753 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,199 just had the ability to pass if where if you give him the ball, 754 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:46,960 he can make a good decision, and that just hasn't been part of what 755 00:49:47,039 --> 00:49:50,960 the Calves have ever really asked him to do. So I want to see 756 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,039 Kevin Love before he actually is a retired player on a good team where his 757 00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:59,719 skills actually matter and where defensively you can make up for him a little bit. 758 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:05,199 And we forget that. You know, the Minnesota years were probably overrated 759 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,960 because that team wasn't any good and he had these crazy numbers that you know 760 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:15,800 resulted in congratulations. He still didn't make the playoffs type stuff. But I 761 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,960 miss Kevin Love mattering. He's a flawed player, but I think he would 762 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,480 matter so much more and do and you know, put together a bunch of 763 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,760 good years that would make a difference if he were playing somewhere other than Cleveland. 764 00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:29,760 Yeah, I could agree with that. The thing with Kevin Love that's 765 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:35,239 so tough is where would he just make sense at this point? And it's 766 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,719 a lot of it is just because of the defense. And I also think 767 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,840 even what he does offensively, yeah, he's still good, but it's not 768 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,840 as a nomalist as it was four or five years ago. It almost seems 769 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,360 standard for someone in his position. I would say the passing probably is not. 770 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,280 I'm just like, what team could you because he has to play center 771 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,199 now, and so what team would have the defensive bandwidth to put him at 772 00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,800 center? And just nothing comes to mind? No, Well, I mean 773 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,800 what about Miami. What if because you've got auto bio to just guard whoever 774 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:09,079 you need defended regardless of position. Obviously, like the money where you say 775 00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:14,000 the defense, the money is what means he doesn't fit anywhere. That's just 776 00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:16,239 like a non starter. But pretend that's not an issue. I think someone 777 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,280 like that to the extent there are players like Auto Bio then because then you 778 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,360 you know, Auto Bio doesn't have the stretch yet, but love provides that, 779 00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:29,280 I think. But the two of those is your front court passing tandem 780 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,760 is like ridiculous. You forget point you don't need a point guard anymore. 781 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,639 So yeah, something like that. But obviously that's just that's pie in this 782 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,519 guy. Yeah, and I mean even in I don't people have kind of 783 00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:43,679 been fascinated with Utah. I don't know that him and go Bear are the 784 00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:45,920 best best fit even though that well on offense, it works like it would 785 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,159 be fine. I'm just, yeah, who's guarding fours on that team? 786 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,519 Right? But that would be I mean, if he could get that opportunity, 787 00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:53,880 or technically he could have it in Cleveland, they just have so many 788 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,760 young ball dominant guards and they might draft another one this year. He's still 789 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,519 their next season, Like at those touches just aren't going to be or the 790 00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:05,920 usage just won't be as high as it probably could be, but Kevin Love 791 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,159 renaissance, I would not watch it my last guy. I'm wondering if we 792 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:19,440 ever get there Zion where Andy Davis is a fantastic player. He's top seven 793 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,960 the NBA right now, probably around that range, maybe eight, whatever you 794 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,320 want to say. But he's always been a play finisher and not someone who's 795 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,239 going to lead the most efficient offense on his own for these long stretches. 796 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,519 We've even seen it in Los Angeles when le Bron's off the court this season. 797 00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:37,440 He always going to need another He needs a playmaker around him to maximize 798 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,360 what he does best. I'm wondering if Zion has what it takes to just 799 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,400 be an exception. He has trucked people in the post this season. He 800 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,639 hasn't really run a ton of pick and roll. I would kind of like 801 00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:52,400 to see that because it feels like he has the passing IQ to really do 802 00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:58,519 things going downhill. If he's coming around screens and then he's five of nine. 803 00:52:58,559 --> 00:53:00,079 This is such a small sample size, but five of nine on off 804 00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:06,000 the dribble jumpers. Is this someone that we could trust in low to modest 805 00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:10,639 volume to hit some shots on the move outside of the paint slash restricted area. 806 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,320 I just want to see it, and I'm curious if we'll ever get 807 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,119 there, or if the Pelicans are always going to steer into the mindset of 808 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,639 he's more of a play finisher and like his most frequent self created looks are 809 00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:27,079 going to be those those putbacks, let's say, and they're they're sort of 810 00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:30,519 ready made to go that direction just because you have Drew Holiday right now, 811 00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:34,159 you have Brandon Ingram, you have a Lonzo Ball. But I would love 812 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,840 to a couple of years down the line, maybe when we've seen if Zion's 813 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,719 really able to broaden his offensive game. I really would love to see what 814 00:53:43,039 --> 00:53:46,199 someone like him would look in that role. It's like a what if Draymond 815 00:53:46,199 --> 00:53:52,000 Green could actually be more of a scorer and it feels like Zion Williamson might 816 00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:58,079 have that that factor about him. Yeah, I think that so Zion isn't 817 00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:02,119 just a fundamentally complicate a player to consider, because I mean, really, 818 00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:06,280 we like we think we have an idea of sort of what he is, 819 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,480 but we really don't even know yet what type of player he's going to initially 820 00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:14,440 become, so that we can then start thinking about what type of player he 821 00:54:14,519 --> 00:54:17,639 might be elsewhere or with a you know, a couple of years of skill 822 00:54:17,679 --> 00:54:22,159 development, Like the slate is so blank right now. I mean with you 823 00:54:22,199 --> 00:54:24,639 know, physically, we know what we have. He's just overwhelming in every 824 00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:30,360 way, you know, size, speed, strength, jump over jump through 825 00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:35,079 all that stuff. Like he's unparalleled I think athletically. But what does that 826 00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:38,760 mean. It seems like the logical way to go is, you know, 827 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:44,800 if you're skeptical about his outside shot ever being a real threatening weapon, which 828 00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,440 I think I probably am, he does sort of have to have the ball 829 00:54:47,519 --> 00:54:52,360 because unless you've got this just brilliantly put together scheme where all he does is 830 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:58,079 cut around and just you know, constantly be sprinting in straight lines toward the 831 00:54:58,119 --> 00:55:01,199 hoop and guys find him. But it seems like he's gonna have to show 832 00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:07,119 that he can do stuff with the ball because the alternative is he becomes just 833 00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:12,760 a knockdown floor spacer, and that seems far less likely to me. Yeah, 834 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,239 that's what's tough is because I do think you need kind of that off 835 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,320 the dribble jumper to do it, and I don't know that he ever gets 836 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,360 there. And even if we get to a point where it's it's like Derek 837 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,199 White style, you want to say, we're gonna need time to get off 838 00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:30,280 his jumper even if players are going under screens. I'm not sure functionally how 839 00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,000 valuable that would be, but just because he can truck people in the post 840 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,840 for now, and he does seem like a good enough pastor where he could 841 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:42,639 run, pick and roll if for some reason that jumper develops too. I'm 842 00:55:42,639 --> 00:55:46,920 not talking about in terms of actual deployment, but efficiency wise a Janni's attemp 843 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,880 to coombo jumper. Like, that's where it gets interesting, because yes, 844 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,280 Jannis is a below average jump shooter, but he can still be the primary 845 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:59,360 playmaker for an incredibly good offense. Yeah, you know, it's made me 846 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,840 think, in conjunction with watching all the Last Dance stuff, like if the 847 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:07,320 rules were what they used to be and Jannie, the idea of him having 848 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,159 to shoot threes to be optimally effective was just not a thing, because he 849 00:56:10,199 --> 00:56:14,119 could post up anybody, or you could throw it to him like in the 850 00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:16,480 Jordan range, you know, ten twelve feet away, and you couldn't as 851 00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:21,320 easily have the second guy there. Same with Zion, like those guys I 852 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,719 mean to say Jannie would have better numbers. It's kind of insane, but 853 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:29,400 it's actually possible that if he could just use all of his strengths and not 854 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:34,239 have to worry about same with Zion adding all this stuff, they could actually 855 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,559 be even better, which is obviously ridiculous to think about. Do you have 856 00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:40,960 any honorable mentions you want to throw out there where it would be like really 857 00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:45,800 long shots that we probably really don't want to see it, but could it 858 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,679 technically happen. One of the names that if for me to start, one 859 00:56:49,679 --> 00:56:52,880 of the names that spring to mind for me would be would it force DeAndre 860 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,199 Ayton to kind of expand his offensive arsenal? If he was kind of the 861 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,920 day factor Number one. He's probably just looking at how smooth he can be 862 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,400 in the post. I feel like you could get more face up usage out 863 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,159 of him, and maybe not having a Devin Booker on the court for so 864 00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:13,760 many possessions at a time, would that force him to kind of augment strength 865 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,119 and broaden whatever you want to say, his offensive game. And it's not 866 00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:20,719 something I necessarily want to see again, but I'm not curious if he'd be 867 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,239 the type of player that could maybe baptism by fire type deal. Yeah, 868 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,239 that's interesting. I think the parallel that that kind of conjures up for me 869 00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,880 is and actually this has some resemblance to like the Dame CJ dynamic is Jaylen 870 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,599 Brown because he took such strides this year just across the board. Now, 871 00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:39,760 it's the kind of the same thing where it's like, you know, Boston 872 00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:45,119 has obviously you would never get rid of two way wings because that's just like 873 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,000 a fireable offense now, so they're never going to break those two up. 874 00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:51,719 But you know, how much more does Jaylen Brown have that? You know, 875 00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:53,079 because Tatum clearly is going to be the guy with the ball now. 876 00:57:53,719 --> 00:57:57,079 But I would wonder, you know, a year from now, if Brown 877 00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:00,840 is someone who starts to feel or maybe deserve of, you know, top 878 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,280 option status. I think it's unlikely, But that's the first guy that I 879 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,159 thought of when when we're trying to think of guys that you know, at 880 00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:10,960 least have a possible trajectory of getting to a place where like they sort of 881 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,079 warrant, you know, a bigger role than they're going to be able to 882 00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:16,360 get. It's just interesting with him because you look up and it's like, 883 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,000 oh, Jayalen Brown average over twenty points a game. I just don't know 884 00:58:20,039 --> 00:58:23,119 that we've ever even seen hints of the passing that he would need to shoulder 885 00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:27,639 that type of burden. Yeah, no, I think I think I think 886 00:58:27,679 --> 00:58:30,800 that's probably the way that it the reason that it wouldn't necessarily work. But 887 00:58:31,079 --> 00:58:35,119 I don't know the way he just improved so much. I just remember him 888 00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:37,519 as a rookie, like, really, all he tried to do is dunk 889 00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:40,360 on everyone, and it rarely worked out, and he was overrated as a 890 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:44,880 defender. And now he just has so much more Just he's so much more 891 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,800 refined without losing you know, that kind of athletic aggression. Just when a 892 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,840 guy makes those sorts of developments, it's it's just so nice to see, 893 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:57,679 like an athletic project become a really good basketball player. And so then I 894 00:58:57,719 --> 00:59:00,239 start to think that anything's possible. But yeah, he probably should draw the 895 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:06,320 line at the sort of intuitive passing stuff that you really would need to have 896 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,760 a top option role. Well, Grant, this was fun. Thank you 897 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,960 for giving me so much of your time. This is the first pot I 898 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:15,320 think we've ever done that should clock in it under an hour with the two 899 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,880 of us on it might prolong. Yeah, hey, you want to talk 900 00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,000 about most improved player, let's just knock out ninety more minutes. No, 901 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:28,079 we talked about efficiency throughout this pot, so I feel like it's appropriate that 902 00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:30,920 we knocked it out. Probably not as efficient relative to other podcasts, but 903 00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:35,440 thank you so much for being generous with your time. I always love talking 904 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,199 to you. Hope that you and your family are able to stay safe and 905 00:59:38,239 --> 00:59:42,960 that your your haircut continues to be at least an eight out of ten, 906 00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:47,400 if not maybe maybe a nine. Follow Grant on Twitter at gt Underscore Hughes. 907 00:59:47,639 --> 00:59:52,159 Until next time, we leave you with the shout out too, second 908 00:59:52,159 --> 00:59:54,880 options, Shout out to them, Shout out to all the number two It's 909 00:59:54,880 --> 01:00:04,800 doing work. Sugar Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, 910 01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,360 and Thomas Hearns legends whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors 911 01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:15,840 in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary 912 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:20,039 The Kings, a four part series premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime