WEBVTT

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Today, I want to tell you
about a journey that I've been on for

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most of my life. Ever since
I was a kid, I've heard tales

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of bigfoot and wild men while spending
time with my friends and family. As

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I grew older and read more about
the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and

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other things strange only deepened. That's
why I'm so excited to share with you

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what I've personally become involved with the
Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network

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is a live streaming podcast network that
airs a new show every day across all

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podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all

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sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and

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much more. I even have my
own show called Weird Encounters, where I

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talk about all things strange. This
is more than just a podcast network.

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It's a community that allows me to
meet so many amazing people who share their

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stories and experiences with strange. If
you're interested in hearing more of these stories

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and learning more about the paranormal and
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Untold Radio Network for all kinds of
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So what are you waiting for visit
www dot untold radionetwork dot com Today.

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Hey everybody, this is Left Striving
Yes, yes, I know aka Survivor

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Man and you're listening to Brian on
sasquatch Audisen. Hey dare welcome back to

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sasquatch Otis. Thank you so much
for being with us for the show.

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It is Friday. I hope you
had a great week. We have an

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amazing guest lined up for you.
But as always, I want to start

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by inviting you. If you've had
an encounter you'd like to be on the

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show, shoot me an email you
give me a Brian at Parinomoral Productions dot

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com. Can head over to the
website and check it out, become remember

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there and help support this show.
Several months back, I got to sit

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down and talk to Robert Leiderman from
the Bluff Creek Project, And in addition

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to talking about tons of things that
have to do with the Patterson Gimlin film

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site and all the things that the
Bluff Creek Project have done and are continuing

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to do, Robert starts talking about
his time when he was a park ranger

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and he was doing bigfoot talks and
investigating some bigfoot activity out in the area

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where he was working. I'll let
Robert tell you all about that in just

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a moment. Really quickly, listen
up. If you're listening on Apple podcast,

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the latest update of the iOS I
think it's seventeen something whatever new version

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of iOS did an update and it
changed the way that podcasts are handled an

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Apple podcast, So you have to
make sure that you hit the automatic download

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button first and foremost, make sure
you're following the show. Hit that automatic

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download button so that the podcast episodes
automatically download to your phone. Otherwise it's

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not going to do that, and
you're not going to get the notifications when

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the new episodes drop. And wherever
you're listening Spotify, any of the podcast

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platforms, make sure you follow the
show, hit that notification, Beil,

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hit whatever it is that gives you
the automatic downloads, so that you know

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that the show is there every time
I drop an episode, because you never

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know when that's going to happen.
And now for that, I know you

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guys are ready to get into it. Robert's on the line, he's ready

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to go. All this left for
you to do is sit back, relax,

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and enjoy the show. I want
to welcome our guest to the show.

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It is Robert Leiderman. Welcome to
the show. Man. Hey,

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thanks appreciate it. I'm glad to
have you. I know we've been trying

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to put this together forever, so
I'm glad you're finally here. Let's get

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right into it. Let's talk about
this Sasquatch thing. I start the same

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place with pretty much everybody on the
show, What guy you interested in the

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subject? To begin with? Yeah, that's like a million dollar question you

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ask a lot of people. And
when I get asked that question a lot,

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I have to try to remember what
I said last time. All that

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challenge of that you go, he
didn't say that last time. But it's

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interested because based on who you're talking
to and what comes up in the subject

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matter and the memories sort. I
was a kid. I think the first

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really scary movie I'd seen in terms
of Bigfoot was scortch Legend of Boogie Creek.

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Some people say it's Boggy Creek,
but I'm from California, so just

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however it comes out. We're a
driving movie theater, and I remember being

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pretty scared about it. I'm trying
to remember how old I was it could

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have been ten or whatever. It's
like I had to go to the bathroom

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and it was like I had to
make it to the car to where the

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bathroom procession was was basically over by
the the movie projection booth was We're away

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in the farther back, so I
had to make it there. There's plenty

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of lights, but some people aren't
too familiar with a driving movie theater,

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so I always have that disclaimer there
that it's an oh big asshall, open

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area with a bunch of burms,
and you park your car on to burn

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you angle it towards the screen at
the far end. I had to go

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really bad, so I made it
there. But unfortunately it just happened to

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be after the scene if you remember
it, and the screen and reaches for

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him and then they show them that
they cut to him his pants halfway down.

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He's trying to run. I left
an impression I got us pretty scary,

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but that kind of started going.
Now. My dad he was always

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into cryptids, ghosts, all straight
stuff. So I blame everything I have

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on my dad because it's his fault. He got me started on that an

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applestone fall very far as you probably
know, my dad ran around with the

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camera all the time. Film and
everything that kind of got me started in

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my major research really didn't start until
probably tell about college. I know that

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comes up a lot. People said
I saw the patters in film and I

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was sold. I didn't see it
at first. I wasn't that concerned.

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I didn't remember because I tried to
think about this, What was the first

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time I saw the Patterson film.
I don't know if you remember the first

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time you saw it, but I
got to thinking about that question. I

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think I was right before I started
Humboldt State and studying recreation resource management,

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more time in the library, in
the archival room, which is like the

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third floor with all the historical documents. There's everything there, pictures, stories,

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Native American culture. So I started
doing on index cards. And it

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wasn't until I started working at the
parks that I started using those index cards

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and putting together an interpretive program about
Bixfoot, because one of our jobs as

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the ranger was to interpret the natural
cultural histories. Giving campfire presentations, which

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is you got a fire burning,
you welcome to visitors, get them there

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for an hour and a half,
You tell stories, answer questions, and

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then you have a presentation, you
give either a storytelling session or a slide

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presentation. They did one on Bigfoot. It was fun. People liked it.

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After every program, people would come
up to me and they look over

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their shoulder of maation and Els is
there, and they start telling me about

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these experiences they've had, and then
of course they asked me if I had

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any and we appreciate you doing it. It was great. I had a

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stack of tabloid magazines. Some people
might not know what those things are.

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If you go shop in a safeway, they're right there, grab a couple

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off there. They're like research material, like the Men in Black that those

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were the hot sheets, all the
latest crazy things. That's where you go.

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So what I did is I laminated
on my stand up comedy act.

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Was basically just to over the stories
and all these things, which is fun

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because when you're in a public place, as you know, if you've been

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there yourself, you're in a public
position. Everything you say will be used

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against you later. My opinions are
my opinions, and when you're working for

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the government, you do what you're
supposed to do. So my opinions were

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kept back, but I would make
fun of everything I could. Whenever chance

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I got, I had people drop
it in on my program to make sure

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it's not a propaganda film. Oh
no, it was just making fun of

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these things. It was okay.
So I did that for a few years

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before the infamous day when a John
Fridays showed up. It was a humble

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Redwood State Park. I don't know
if you're familiar with that, but so

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the third largest state park in the
California system. It's a Humble county.

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It's eighteen thousand acres of ancient forest. It's pretty good sized. The whole

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park's about fifty three thousand, and
I had the pleasure to work there for

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many years. Enjoyed it. But
it also has some history. You have

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some encounters there. But I was
just showing my presentation for it, and

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so the fun part about that is
you get to talk about it, talk

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to people afterwards. And then I
started getting more and more people explaining things

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to happen. So I got involved
with talking to people about it. Now

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we're getting the mister Fredis nineteen ninety
nine. It was I would say it's

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early September. It's a when Lebne
Weekend shows her out, so he shows

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up. I get this call Robert, this guy watch to ask some questions.

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So I go down there and I
meet up with this gentleman. He's

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an investigator out of Delmore County.
He's with this group called the BFRO.

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They Fulfilled your research organization. They're
out about looking for Bigfoot. He has

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some questions for you. So I
chatted with him and he told me that

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there was a siding in the park
that last August and that they had come

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up to investigate it. They found
some interesting things, and they also wanted

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to know John Fredis wanted to know
if he could broadcast these alleged Bickwood calls

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out of his ship speaker at the
Willock Creek Museum, the China Flat Bigfoot

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Museum. That speaker sitting there in
the archival room in the back. It's

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pretty good size. It's just befurrol
on it. He had that hooked up

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in the back of his pickup truck. And his major thing he's done was

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call blast. What we used to
do in the old days is we get

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these speaker systems and we have these
allegens of the Ohio scream. You have

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to seer a sound, you have
a bunch of others. Baby crying.

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Those are interesting primate sounds. So
you went broadcast those on speaker systems just

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like all over the place. Some
of those systems were pretty good. A

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mile away, you're hearing some stuff. We can't let people do that in

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the parks because A it's a busy
holiday weekend, one of three busy holiday

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weekends. B. We have organisms
that say thou shalt not do that.

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Now, we had the marble mill
and then they spotted out with that nest

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in the ancient force of that area. There are rules that say you can't

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be doing certain sounds between April between
sixteen October two in that period nesting time

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period. So everything was pointing against
him. So I encouraged him to go

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somewhere else to do that. But
I saw the write up later. I

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think Fred has sent me a copy
or a link, because he sent me

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links with hissing sound programs, Mission
Night's Scream. I think it was that

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he was doing. He had Mission
ice Scream one, Mission Ice Cream two.

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I got to see some of his
work and that was interesting, and

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that was after he came to visit. But he also saw the article they

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put up on the bfrol about their
investigation. But it wasn't like this guy

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allegedly said this and this might have
happened. It was like, yeah,

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Bigfoot was here. He said this
and that and this. So I decided

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the first chance I was going to
get was going to take one of my

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my part gates that worked with me, and she was pretty good at track

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She went to the Brown School tracking
so she was certified trackers. So I

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said, well, let's go look
for these things. Based on the photographs

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they gave us. They had pictures
of a snag tree. They had pictures

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of a few things, but weured
out where the location was based on the

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picture alone. So just to recap
the report, it was basically as a

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father was camping in late August with
his son at Burlington Campground. They had

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crossed the bridge to the other side, which would be west of the Hill

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River. They got to one point
where the dad noticed his son's shoe was

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untied, so he had stopped,
pulled his son to tie shoe, and

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while he was waiting, he was
just looking around and up the hillside.

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He reported something naked from moist up
harry moving back and forth through the view

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shed and then it had stopped and
started scratching his back, so he got

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all excited about it, and then
he got the clear. They went back

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to camp and then they came back
later the check and son nothing never went

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up the hill but saw it.
But the trial system is basically, the

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river's on your left when they were
traveling and on the right as the hillside

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goes up and it's forced it over. It's a second gross with some old

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GROLLD mixtent transitional forest and there's some
stumps where the harps are red with trees.

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Before it was a part great view
shed. I decided with my park

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Gay to go, let's go investigate
it ourselves. So sometime and I think

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it was late September, we got
a chance to do it. We went

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up there and had to look around, and we found it. We walked

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up the hill and then the process
of doing this, I would go up

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the hill and my park would be
down there and we're trying to match the

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photo. Right, you got to
get the right angle, and th this

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has got to be the trees.
This is it. We thought that was

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fun because this was like a crime
scene investigation. You're like, oh,

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let's figure this out, you know, we know the elements we're looking for

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evidence, or we're looking at angles. The distance they had was an estimated

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distance. They said, I can't
remember what it was now. So we

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went up there and I said,
how about now? How about now?

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Can you read? Now? Can
see me? They ask you? What

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part of me can you see?
So we finally got to the point where

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we found a spot, and then
we're looking around and what I found was

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a large redwood stump I want to
say, maybe ten foot diameter or a

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little bit less, and it was
all burnt. But then they had this

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green moss growing on it and some
liking. So we're looking at it and

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I'm looking around. I go,
this is probably the spot. So I

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look down. I see there's this
little strap to a camera. The ones,

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the cheap cameras, they kind of
look in this one obviously fallen off

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was laying on the ground. And
then I saw a cigarette but and fred

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As smokes. I got the evidence
he was here, and I remember what

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banding smoke. But there was I
go, this has got to be the

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spot. So we're looking around and
I'm looking at the stump. I go,

205
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maybe this is it. So I'm
standing in front of it, and

206
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she's down the hill trying to match
up. She says, yeah, I

207
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can just see this almost your upper
body. Not a lot, but I

208
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can see a little bit of that. I go, okay, that's good.

209
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That fits the description. And then
I walked over to the side.

210
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I go, what about now,
because yeah, I can see you moving

211
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a little bit. I go,
this is our stump. So I looked

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00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.519
at it. I rubbed my finger
across it, and what happened was it

213
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took off the green moss that was
growing on it. Even though it's burnt

214
00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.639
over, it's charcoal, and it
rubs off real easy. I'm like,

215
00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:00.759
well, where's the rub marks?
Right? So I'm let's check it out.

216
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.320
There are no rub marks of this. Nothing has rubbed against the stuff.

217
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Why would they say it's here?
And then matches the debut? Shit,

218
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.399
there's got me more to this.
So the signing took place about mid

219
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.480
August. Mid August. What happens
in Humble County and then the redwood environments

220
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.799
is the leaves the trees start replacing
their needles, so you get a lot

221
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.759
of duff around August through September,
and by October they're not deciduous. But

222
00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.559
the trees only retain their leaves for
so long before they replace them. A

223
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:33.279
good time to replace it is,
after all, a long hot summer.

224
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They don't need these things, so
they get rid of them, right,

225
00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.440
which is the way it goes.
They keep all their leaves, but they

226
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.679
just replace them back and forth.
So this was covering up any tracks or

227
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.879
anything. But what was there was
a i'll say a game trail section where

228
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you can see something would go and
it would pad you down, but you

229
00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.679
can't see foot impressions. All you
know is that the duff had been impacted

230
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.879
to a point where this is an
obviously active game trail. I'm looking at

231
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that perspective of it. It goes
around the stump and I look over to

232
00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.320
the left, which is if I'm
looking uphill, it's to the left,

233
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.000
and there's a spur section that kind
of goes that way, which if you

234
00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:13.519
took a gennel on the outdoors,
when game follows trails, there's gonna be

235
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.080
a little slight feris would they like
to walk a up at least these three

236
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.519
rabbit trees about a foot in diameter
and the younger rabbit trees, and so

237
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.919
when you look at these trees,
there's three of the tronango, but one

238
00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.919
of them in the front had the
surface area looked like it was rubbed against.

239
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.440
And I looked at it closely about
a foot off the ground, it

240
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:39.000
was not rubbed. Then from that
point up six more feet it was rubbed,

241
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.200
and then above that point it wasn't
rubbed. So I'm looking at this

242
00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:48.279
and something obviously had rubbed against this. And I looked at the other trees

243
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.759
and at the trees did not have
that. It was just this one.

244
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.279
So this is the favorite rub tree. So I looked at it, and

245
00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.000
I don't recall seeing any hair fibers. I didn't take my microscope out of

246
00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.399
my MiG fine glass and check it
out. I didn't see anything sticking out.

247
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:04.120
It's you just seeing redwood bark.
Sometimes it looks like I'm going to

248
00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:07.159
digress this a second. Working at
the park for years, one of the

249
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.960
things people visitors that come, they
always bring up these things, and one

250
00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.200
of them is one of the questions
I got asked is what's with all the

251
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:19.080
Irish setters dead Irish setters along the
edge of the road. And you probably

252
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.480
know where I'm going with this.
The Loggia trucks have redwood bark and it

253
00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.639
falls off and it's along the ground
on the people driving by. I think

254
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.159
they're dead. I said it wasster
red and that almost could look like hair

255
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.679
if you're not paying attention, just
like some people think moss is hair,

256
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.320
right, it's not. Pick a
microscope check it out. So I noticed

257
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.639
that and I got my back against
and I rubbed it on my shirt and

258
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:42.360
said, yeah, this is comfortable. This has got to be the place.

259
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.080
There's no other way to do it. The other spur went down a

260
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.480
little bit further and then dropped off
a drop box. But in order to

261
00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:51.759
go that way, it also had
to climb over a big bush that's the

262
00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.879
probably about three foot tall. So
we took pictures. I posed in my

263
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.399
uniform or in my stets and because
we're sus to wear sets and I don't

264
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.120
know if you guys have to wear
stetson's or not, or just ball caps,

265
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.400
but park service we had to be
professional, look good. And we

266
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.880
were stets in our post in front
of this tree, and I took part

267
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:14.200
of different stages of over investigation.
I decided that the guy saw something.

268
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.599
What it was, I don't know, but there's signs here that it didn't

269
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.599
rubbed against in the stump and rubbed
against the tree. So I said,

270
00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:25.079
you know what I'm gonna do.
I'm just gonna write this up just to

271
00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:29.240
let those guys know that some of
the information they were pushing around was not

272
00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:33.000
quite accurate. So I did that. And of course you have no opinion,

273
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.359
you're just stating the facts. And
I said it, I made your

274
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:40.079
phrase, got a hold of it. Guy named Matt Moneymaker got a hold

275
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:41.559
of it, and the next thing
I know, to get this call from

276
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.039
this guy named Matt Moneymaker and I
realized he was with the bf O.

277
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.200
Well, yeah, that's why I
want to be a curator for the BFROL.

278
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.519
And I'm like, what does the
curator do? Come to you for

279
00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.400
advice and stuff? Seize your investigative
skills. You could throw that in there

280
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:56.519
and help people, Like, OK, sure, I'll do it. Because

281
00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.680
at that time I was interested in
the Bigfoot stuff to a point where I

282
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.519
was giving presentations on it. When
somebody asked you, what was that day

283
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.839
when you decided that you're going to
take the red pill? And I would

284
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.200
probably say I took that red pill
when I wrote that report and they sent

285
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.400
it to the BFROL. Matt Poulsby
up and says, hey, how would

286
00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.960
you like to be a member of
the BFOL. So that's when I swallowed

287
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.079
the red pill. That's when I
was like, no turning back. Now

288
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.640
you're on your journey. So I
became a curator of the BFUR investigator.

289
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.839
So I started following up on reports
a few other things. Then, oh

290
00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:33.200
no, this is important because working
for the government, you can relate to

291
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.200
this. Well, do you remember
that report I wrote, I talked about

292
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.640
and I sent it to the BFROL. It ended up where somebody read it

293
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.240
and they were offended by it.
They're offended because they pay taxes. They're

294
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:51.119
not going to pay a salary to
go investigate bigfoot because bigfoot doesn't exist,

295
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:56.240
So why are you spending tax money
investigating bigfoot? This complaint went to a

296
00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.720
supervisor in the sector farther north.
They contacted my supervisor in the sector I

297
00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.640
work at. I get called into
the office, get sit at the table,

298
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:08.680
and I get the season to cisorder. It says that I will no

299
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:15.920
longer be using state time to researching
bigfoot or giving opinions. But if you

300
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.559
remember before that, I was actually
getting paid by the State of California to

301
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:25.880
give campfire presentations on the subject that
were well received and liked and asked for.

302
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.359
So here we are here he was
asking me questions about it and a

303
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.759
long behold a copy of this article
shows about his desk. The people I

304
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.119
work with, half of them were
supportive, weren't so supportive. I don't

305
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.480
know which half put the paper on
its desk, but he read through it

306
00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:45.079
and there was nothing incremitating whatsoever.
But I still had to not use the

307
00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:49.000
internet for a little bit. So
fast forward to I don't know six months.

308
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.160
This show a long time ago,
real scary stories. What they do

309
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:56.440
is they go to different places.
They have these kids, and then the

310
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.480
interview people, and then they have
this kids, go look for stuff.

311
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:08.079
Stay tuned for more sasquatch Otysey.
Right back after these messages, I got

312
00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:15.720
a request to be paid state salary
to dry in uniform with my stets in

313
00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:18.359
in a nice car after I washed
it, to drive all the way over

314
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:25.119
to Crescent City area and be interviewed
about Bigfoot. There's only one catch is

315
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.680
our department decided that there's a list
of questions that you could only ask ranger

316
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:37.400
lightermen and they supposedly gave these questions
to these producer people. So when it

317
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.920
was my turn to talk, I
was sitting there in my nice clean patrol

318
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.480
car wearing my stets in driver's side. Behind me was the golden circular orb

319
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:52.200
that was setting beyond the ancient redwood
trees. There was an orange glow.

320
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.480
It was sunset. It was awesome. My white car was shining orange.

321
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:57.880
It was beautiful. It's like one
of those shots. You're like, man,

322
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.079
that's awesome. And they proceed to
ask me questions and I couldn't answer

323
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.359
a single question that they asked because
it was not on that list the questions

324
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.839
I can't answer. That can as
to this. But I got to watch

325
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.920
another gentleman who's passed away that had
a cast. It is being interviewed,

326
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:21.960
and behind him was this golden orb
that was setting down the golden rays reflecting

327
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.200
off the white Plasta Paris cast.
It was a beautiful shot. I was

328
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:29.000
listening to him talk about how he
got this cast, and there were hair

329
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.400
farbers still attached his cast. There
was a foot impression he made the show.

330
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.319
I didn't. That's okay. So
I got to drive up Preston City

331
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.720
watched a great sunset, listen to
people tell stories, and then drive back.

332
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.039
But it's funny how that works,
where you're told no, and then

333
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:45.240
all of a sudden you say,
yeah, we want you to go talk

334
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.480
to them about that. I just
kept getting more and more involved, followed

335
00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.319
up on reports, got tired of
that, took out the point where we

336
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.799
started doing expeditions. The dishes were
getting to be an interesting thing. We

337
00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:59.960
had a lot of what we did
ourselves, but this was the public one.

338
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.519
This is the one where we invite
the public to join the BFRO and

339
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.920
see about the big phenomenon. So
that was in two thousand and four.

340
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.359
They were originally three that year.
Actually we end up having four, but

341
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.680
I went to three of them.
The first one that I was asked to

342
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.200
organize, We're in the Redwoods.
I got some guest speakers coming in,

343
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.799
got a bunch of people signed up
that show. I got to meet Rod

344
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:25.599
moorehead. Kathy moscow Strained was one
of my guests at the time. She

345
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.960
saw some of the stuff I was
doing. She had information on the harry

346
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.440
Man and she sent that to me, which remained anonymous at the time because

347
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.160
another government employee worked for the government
and you don't want them getting upset because

348
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.559
you're talking about a subject matter related
to archaeology, by the way. So

349
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.279
she gave me information for it.
I wrote the article, but I couldn't

350
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.400
say who she was chask me not
it was Kathy, and thank you Kathy

351
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.319
for that. That was a lot
of work. So that was one of

352
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.319
the other things that got involved.
So she was doing evidence for me.

353
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.799
I had more Head and Bury down
there, and I'm sitting there with these

354
00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:59.160
guys and they're going over these Sarah
sounds and now most people have heard of

355
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.240
them by now. I'm listening to
these Sarah sounds and I think we're twenty

356
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.680
because it sounded like a bunch of
guys going I'm like, oh, I

357
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.400
could do that. But yet he
was selling these discs for ten bucks of

358
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.319
pops, about two of them,
so I was curious listen to them later

359
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.599
and pick them apart. So he
was telling all these stories and we had

360
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.319
him probably I want to say,
about twenty five people there, and there

361
00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.000
are pretty great stories and I'd love
to hear these guys. I was thinking,

362
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.160
this is ridiculous, how can that
be. I haven't heard of this

363
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:29.400
before. This is all new to
me because I'm just getting into stuff.

364
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.440
I'm going to fast forward nine months. I'm now with the Shelby Cart Club

365
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.599
BFR Expedition. Matt's organizing it.
We have a special clients Shelby Cart Club,

366
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:40.920
and I want to say, it's
like in a February two thousand and

367
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:42.799
five. We're in the Redwoods and
we get these guys to show up and

368
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.839
they are a car club, a
well known one, and we have our

369
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.319
little group mail from Yakamaz with us. Matt's a bunch of other guys.

370
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:53.200
Blobo was with us too for that. So we're staging on this one area.

371
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.759
I want to say, it's like
a Friday. So we're going into

372
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.880
this section in the Redwoods, in
the coastal areas. This has some history.

373
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.119
So we're walking along. We're using
night vision like Gen one and a

374
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:07.119
half, which is you're tripping over
everything. It's not as good as Gen

375
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:10.880
threes. No therms, just those
things. So the group behind us catches

376
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:14.039
up to us because we're going like
turtles. There's a lot of uneven roots

377
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.279
of stuff. It was dangerous to
walk with lights off in the dark.

378
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.799
You take your time, you space
yourselves out, and you're trying to listen.

379
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.000
You have clients with you, so
you have a responsibility to the clients

380
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:26.799
will get hurt, so you're moving
them slow through catches up. Of course,

381
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.519
the bubble is leading this group.
So the interesting thing was is the

382
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:34.160
old night vision stuff used a lot
of infrared, so we heard them coming

383
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.799
before we saw them. And with
the night vision stuff that we did have,

384
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.839
you could see light beams all over
the place like a new movie coming

385
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.079
on. So they had them infrareds
going and they were might as well turn

386
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:49.119
flashlights on to night But they're moving
through with our night vision with our devices.

387
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.720
We could see that in the devices. So they're moving through, they

388
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:55.799
catch up to us, they pass
us up. We're like, oh,

389
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:57.640
go ahead, we'll wait. And
then about ten minutes later, the radios

390
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:03.960
come alive and sounds like they're being
overrun. Everyone's talking over everybody else,

391
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.519
and they're all excited. What happened
was while they were at the end of

392
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.079
this walk, they're moving along and
they started hearing k nooks. They are

393
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.279
all sorts of stuff, and when
everybody started hearing it, they all want

394
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.000
to get on the radio and talk
about it. They all start flashlights everywhere.

395
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:22.200
It was crazy. So they came
out and they're pumped up, and

396
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.039
they got us all excited. We
got to get one good of the early

397
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:27.640
third gen. The mail had his. Now we got to play with one,

398
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:32.359
right, So we go in there. We're being quiet, We're expecting

399
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:36.400
to see what monsters, all of
them everywhere. They're everywhere up there.

400
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.519
They're screaming at you, so we're
ready for it. So we go walking

401
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.519
up there and we get to a
point and we're like, we don't hear

402
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.640
a single thing. So we set
out and we're sitting there on the tarp

403
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:51.240
on the trail listening and all we
hear is you guests owls, and we're

404
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.039
like, those guys have freaking hurt
owls. And they got all excited about

405
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.519
it. So we heard outs.
I spotted I know there's some bards.

406
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.279
We came back somewhat disappointed and we're
like, we saw nothing. So we

407
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.359
got back and then the next day
we decided to go out and do some

408
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.599
investigation again. This time we decided
to get off the trail to look around

409
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:12.039
bushes. So we found foot impressions
large, small, like Papa Bear,

410
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.799
Mama Bear, and baby Bear.
They were in the mud and they're in

411
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.559
the swampy party area. We found
the bigger ones. I found one that

412
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.640
almost looked like a pulsable thumb on
one, but it was a much smaller

413
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.720
We're like, this is odd,
and then we looked around. We did

414
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:29.119
see anything else, just a few
footprints into some MUDs and it disappears,

415
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:32.119
which you can go out to plant
materials on top of logs. The other

416
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.519
ones were clear on the other side. So we got excited about it,

417
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:40.279
and not much else happened for that
trip, and then comes Sunday. Sundays

418
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.279
are our days. We say goodbye
clients, thank you so much, Spike,

419
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.359
and then it's our term to go. So we decide we're going to

420
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:49.720
go in there to that place where
the activity originally took place to sit there.

421
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:52.880
We're gonna listen and see what happens. I went in there during the

422
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:57.200
day and we marked the trail with
the flagging use color flagging you're good to

423
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.319
go. So I marked it with
color, like, thinking, oh,

424
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.319
we can follow back up where we're
good. Those guys went in the daylight.

425
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.359
When I said those guys, I
met Bobo and Mail. They got

426
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.359
up the hillside, they got situated, they're good to go. It was

427
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.400
getting dark. Now it's my turn
to go in with Matt. But the

428
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:15.920
last minute Matt had plans to do
something else. I'm thinking, I'm not

429
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.960
going here by myself. I remember
what happened last time. I remember hearing

430
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:22.759
about this and this. I saw
those for prints myself, so I don't

431
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:26.319
know about this. So we're like, okay. I get in about fifteen

432
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.519
feet and something huge goes crashing through
the brush at the end. I go,

433
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.160
all it crap. So I go
back and out of there, and

434
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.200
I told Matt about it, and
of course, what do you think bad

435
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.640
did? He went up with flashlight
looking all over the place. I don't

436
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:41.400
see anything here, but he decides
he's with another gentleman and they're going to

437
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.039
go off the road nearby and drive
that. I'm going wampster going in here.

438
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.160
So now it's just being by myself
with the little port of me radios,

439
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:53.559
and I'm going in. So I'm
trying to call Matt and let him

440
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.880
know what's what my plans are on
this one. After you drove off and

441
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:03.039
I get radio silent. I try
to call Bobo and mail. I get

442
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.599
radio silence. I go, no, are they here? I'm abandoned,

443
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.240
so I said, okay, I'm
going in. So I went in,

444
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.440
and what I did is I didn't
have any night vision. All how was

445
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.240
the flashlight I used. So what
I went in. Every thirty seconds,

446
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:18.799
I would turn the flashlight on for
a second and then let it go off,

447
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.720
and that allowed me to see down
the trail till my next hazard,

448
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.240
and i'd move along, boom boom, move them on. Of course,

449
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:29.240
I'm on the radio trying to call, and nobody's answering. So I get

450
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:32.599
to a point where I know this
is the place. This has got to

451
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:33.920
be the place where they're up in
the hillsid because I mark it. And

452
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.400
I'm looking around and guess what all
those flags I marked, I can't see

453
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.839
a single one in the dark.
You had to turn a flashlight on to

454
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:45.240
see the colored flags. I'm trying
to be quiet and stealth. I just

455
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.880
heard something large crush to the bush
right before I got started. I'm by

456
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.680
myself. If I disappeared, nobody's
going to miss me. So I turn

457
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:53.559
on the light. I see it. I go up the hillside and I

458
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.200
take it to where Mel and a
bobo war and I'm so happy. I'm

459
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.960
there. I'm excited. How come
you guys didn't ask? The radio goes,

460
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.759
Oh, we turned them off because
Matt kept talking. I'm like,

461
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.440
oh, that's great, okay,
So now i am I'm finding there.

462
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:11.359
I'm excited about this whole thing.
And so Bobo had a great plan.

463
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:17.559
What it was is we had a
stove we had and we would cook bacon

464
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:19.960
for a few hours, which means
what it means you got to bring a

465
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.880
lot of bacon, which I'm okay
with that. That was good. So

466
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.039
we cook bacon after ten o'clock and
eat the bacon, cook it, eat

467
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.960
it, cook it, eat it. And then remember we had mailed with

468
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:30.359
us up the hill a little bit, so we had to give him some

469
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.519
and then we went back to cooking
bacon to ould bacon gone. We only

470
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.799
heard the standard force sounds. We're
like, there's something that's got to be

471
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.000
in this for us, after everything
that's happened, it's gotta be something.

472
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.839
So we're sitting there, you know, Roberts five foot eight, most like

473
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.880
seven three corner a good day.
Bubba was like over six ft. So

474
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.599
we're sitting back to back, which
meant my back is to his. Kidney's

475
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.319
a little bit taller. But we're
sitting back to back and we're dozing off

476
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:57.799
a little bit because we've had a
long day. This is Sunday. We've

477
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:02.279
been at it since Thursday. A
little bit of sleeping, running around,

478
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.319
make sure our clients had a great
experience. Then we I'll both hear this,

479
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.079
and he looks to me like,
I don't know. Bobo's debts the

480
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.359
guy when he tells you, you
just heard a sound that makes your hair

481
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.359
stand up, and Bobo says,
I don't know what made that makes you

482
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.400
a little nervous, but so we
listened. We didn't hear it again.

483
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.839
If somebody were asked me, what
do you think the translation of that would

484
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.079
have been? Based on the fluctuation
of the words and how it was said,

485
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.559
that would have been can go up
there and meat? And another one

486
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.240
that's totally differentice goes no. So
my interpretation was can we go eat that?

487
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:40.640
And no? So that's my experience
with samurai talk. I've never heard

488
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.920
it like that since. But I
was surprised then. And if they go

489
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.000
back in the story, nine months
before that, I was laughing at the

490
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.240
serah sounds. So I was trying
to be a good investigator and not take

491
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:53.880
everything for face worth in a part
of the evidence and break it down and

492
00:30:53.920 --> 00:31:00.359
try to explain it away. When
you can it away, then you have

493
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.039
to reconsider what it really is.
Of course, we stayed up later and

494
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.599
then we heard something moving around.
Mail had some recordings of some of this,

495
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.400
but we don't know where that is. That was a long time ago.

496
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.079
At the time, I wasn't as
much into keeping everything proven beyond reasonable

497
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:19.759
doubt me. It was just to
satisfy me whether I believed it or not.

498
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.519
I wasn't out to prove to everybody
that it exists. I was out

499
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.640
to prove to myself what it was. I was trying to experience, and

500
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.079
I'm still out there trying to prove
to myself about it. I have so

501
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.039
many things that I just can't explain, but I can explain way really eazy

502
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.160
and say it was bigfoot, but
that's not a scientific approach. I got

503
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:42.519
into more leading expeditions with that,
more crazy stuff, and then they gave

504
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:47.720
Robert a video camera. I mentioned
before that my dad was into video cameras,

505
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.839
into sci fi and all this stuff. Guess what. On the expeditions

506
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:56.799
we used to record looking for bickfoot, but not looking at the people who

507
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.480
are looking for bickfoot. So I
said, why don't we record the people

508
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:05.440
as they're trying to experience this phenomenon. So now I became a popular Rozzi.

509
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.240
I spent a lot of time filming
people, violating their space and filming

510
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:12.039
them while they're trying to enjoy this. So I started doing that. I

511
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:15.079
got a bunch of footage, did
not keep it, gave it back in

512
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.440
and then of course it gets dissolved
up because people need the space or whatever.

513
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.000
I got distression with with Matt,
he goes Robert, even you can

514
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:29.440
edit, but here's a camera,
Wally's blessing, here's that unite vision attachment

515
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.519
with Wally Hirschem's blessing. Go out
and do that stuff. So that then

516
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:38.039
became my phase in my life.
I'm a videographer. Now, I guess

517
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:44.839
what Robert does. Robert creates over
one hundred and something videos for BFRL YouTube

518
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:50.960
channel about expeditions, investigations, interviews. So I started doing this and I

519
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.200
did that, and plus leading expeditions
are assisting with other people leading expeditions,

520
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.720
and they got to a point where
I'd have to flash back to two thousand

521
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.400
and seven and I first met Steven
Stoyford. I think it was the fortieth

522
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:07.519
anniversary over at the Willow Creek Veterans
Hall. We had some speakers coming in.

523
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.200
Steven was doing an article. I
got to meet Steven. We pretty

524
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.799
much got more involved with that.
Then I sat around the fire with Steven

525
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.279
until early morning hours, talking about
all sorts of stuff. One of the

526
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:22.319
things you talked about was trying to
find this bluff pre film site, which

527
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:27.400
for me meant nothing because I can
care less do I look like a zella

528
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.279
to you, a guy who's going
to go there on October twenty eighth every

529
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:35.519
freaking year to go stand pose in
front of the pre fifty two spot,

530
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:39.920
And I go, that me not
gonna be happening. So it's twenty ten.

531
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:45.240
I finally have time to do this. So I was asked by Steven

532
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:52.039
Strueford to videotape him and this guy
named Ian Carton as the goal look for

533
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.119
the film site. I go,
that's a good dig. Yeah, let's

534
00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:00.599
do this. So I came there
as a videoographer to record the process.

535
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:05.039
I went to the Big Museum film
there. I went to Steven Storeford's store

536
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.839
I love to tell the story because
I don't know how people really know Steven.

537
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:12.320
But unfortunately the store burned down.
Steven's fine. It was a legacy

538
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.000
store. First time I went in
there, I parked in front of it.

539
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.119
The doors are open and they're always
open to our business hours. And

540
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:22.039
you can hear the bass coming out
of the building. Talking to my camera

541
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:23.320
and IM say, yeah, we're
here. Here's the big Foot books.

542
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:27.039
There's a sign. Yeah, we're
walking in, and on the front porch

543
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:30.679
were stocks of books. Of course, go walking through the door, music's

544
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.599
louder i A'm surrounded by a canyon
of books. Those you who have been

545
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.960
there, you can remember that so
many books they getting fit on the shelves.

546
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.800
They're now stacked into mountains and canyons. So I'm going, holy crap

547
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:45.960
looking around this place, and then
I'm looking for Steven right, but the

548
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:50.440
front desk is way in the back, and there the head pops up,

549
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.360
like, oh, that must be
Steven, and so I go over there

550
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.519
to film. I mean, here's
a upset that was filming him without his

551
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:59.440
permission, but had explained I'm not
really a pop rozzze. We talked about

552
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:00.800
this. This is how we're going
to do it. I have to capture

553
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:07.119
whatever I can. So that started
my PowerPoint via Stephen explaining to me PG

554
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:12.880
film Site one oh one. At
first I thought, huh, who cares?

555
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:15.039
Now I'm going Actually, there's a
lot of history here that I know

556
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.280
nothing out. Really, we all
think we know a lot until you start

557
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.000
meeting other people who really dove in. I'm just like, oh wow,

558
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.880
there's so much stuff. So we're
going through all that process of it.

559
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:29.119
I'm learning, and then I'm ready
to go. Because that whole week I

560
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.599
was supposed to go back up to
the mountains where in a few days,

561
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:37.960
Ian Parton and Steven who would officially
meet me and I would officially begin filming

562
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:43.480
them in their natural habitat in the
research place. The gig was to look

563
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.760
for five sites. According to Steven's
PowerPoint, there were five sites, and

564
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:51.320
I was thinking, how can there
be five different sites? How can people

565
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:57.440
be so confused at a landmark that
they filmed now people don't agree where it

566
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.159
was? And that that was something
I had trouble with trying to figure it

567
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:01.719
out. So I went there a
few days and I went out there and

568
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:06.199
I was filming everything. I was
in the peter Burn location. I went

569
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:08.960
down to the INCA Davis area.
I looked at the Christopher Murphy area called

570
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:13.280
the Daniel Preys area. It was
just upstream from that, but I didn't

571
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:15.400
go too much further than that because
I haven't been to that one spot.

572
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:20.320
It's called a peter Burn location.
I was told that was the location.

573
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:24.719
Then a little later in two thousand
and seven, I was taken farther back

574
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:29.719
in there to a location which actually
is the current film site location. I

575
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.599
was taken in there and pointed to
a couple of big trees by bubble and

576
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.400
cliff, saying, we think these
are the ones you had to crawl through

577
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:38.960
brush and we followed the tree line
to get there, so it was a

578
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.239
jungle. I'm like, how do
you know there's just these big trees.

579
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:46.039
I mean, you can't see anything
in the junks and stuff. So we're

580
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:50.280
going back to where we were.
So I'm going through the MK Davis area.

581
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:52.960
I'm gritting it out, looking at
it all over. Based on what

582
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.800
I had time with Steven, I
go, this is going to take forever.

583
00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:58.800
So I got to meet with Steven, and the next thing I know,

584
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:01.280
by the end of the third day, I guess they must have given

585
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:06.000
me another one of those little pills. It was like a blue one or

586
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.079
a red one, and they say
which one do you want? So I

587
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:12.960
end up taking the red one,
maybe two of them. I became not

588
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.679
just who's recording the adventure. I
become a member of the team number three.

589
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.679
So now it wasn't those idiots over
there, it was us idiots.

590
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:24.639
Of course, we never agreed one
hundred percent with each other. We all

591
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:29.320
had our approach and our ideas of
what we expected. It was at that

592
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.119
blend of trying to blend the ideas
together and to start from the beginning.

593
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.639
Don't use somebody else's work. Use
someone else's work, You're probably going to

594
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.679
take that mistake and just magnify it. So we had to start over.

595
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.480
Steven and he and his credit that's
what they wanted to do, and M.

596
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:49.559
K. Davis area I didn't have
what he needed. The story on

597
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:52.039
that I heard is I guess in
two thousand and three, I looked that

598
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:57.239
part out because I've talked about it
before, but I got to talk at

599
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.840
the symposium in two thousand and three. I was the salmon inner lunch Sky

600
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.159
and I did my State Parks program
hungue in cheek with the tableaud magazines.

601
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:07.920
I did that through the BFOL and
I did that on Friday, but I

602
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:13.599
missed the Great Confusion Day on Sunday. I think Stephen was involved with that,

603
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.199
but I missed all that. So
I'm now a member of that trying

604
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.679
to figure it all out. We're
coming down to it, but it wasn't

605
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.519
it. By the end of twenty
ten, we had gone through sites and

606
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:28.159
decided that the one that had the
most potential was the farthest up the creek,

607
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.519
and all the other ones they're lacking. Things like the woman called the

608
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:36.400
Christopher Murphy site, and he only
claims that spot because somebody told him that

609
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.480
was there. It's been washed out. It's called the gulch. It's got

610
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:45.000
a place where the water had wiped
out the whole area there. So it

611
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.280
was convenient that the evidence was no
longer there. So nobody can just prove

612
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:51.800
you if you say it's here,
because the evidence is no. Sorry,

613
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.000
man, it's just not here.
But then there's the layout of the land,

614
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:59.239
the topography, the angles, north
south, access lines, those old

615
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:04.679
played a role to decide it's not
it. Peter Burnside no way. It's

616
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.679
too small, wrong direction, not
enough trees, the rivers in the wrong

617
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:13.480
place. Everything was wrong. Peter
burnsite no. M K. Davis No,

618
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:15.880
it doesn't have what needs to have. It has trees that are broken

619
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.039
off the top and they're off the
side. The trees aren't supposed to be

620
00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:22.800
on the flat area, although there
are four of them that are, but

621
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.800
they're not that big and they're off
to the side. And the trees in

622
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:29.519
the back don't exist. The stumps
are on a flat playing field. They're

623
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:32.199
not on the slide of a hill. Also an approximate location, the different

624
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:36.760
locations which they were so needs to
say. It did not work, no

625
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.679
matter what I knew that from after
two days and some people still fail,

626
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:45.199
they had potential. Ian still fail. They had potential. Ian had his

627
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:50.280
spot between the Peter peter Burn and
m K. Davis and that's where Ian

628
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.039
felt it was for whatever reason he
had, and Stephen felt it was closer

629
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:59.000
to what the Press location is because
the angle of the north south made more

630
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.159
sense there. Me, I had
no opinion because I have too much the

631
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.519
process. I just know it's farther
up and it's not down. By the

632
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.679
end of twenty ten, we narrowed
it down to a location we called the

633
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:15.719
General Consensus Area, which included basically
Prez and the area would call Cliff.

634
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:22.360
And the reason we called the Cliff
Brackman site was because Stephen sent out a

635
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.840
whole bunch of stuff. He was
asking MK questions, Peter Burn questions.

636
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.800
He gives them to know who's asking
all these questions. So he also asked

637
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:34.559
for a map where they felt it
was. So the map that he got

638
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.280
from a Cliff Brackman it was a
round, a little oval shape over what's

639
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:43.119
called the Hindens X. And if
you look at the two maps that were

640
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.880
fighting over the Titnus map does not
fit the topography at all, and that

641
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:51.639
was misleading for everything else. And
we don't know why he drew it the

642
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.679
way he did, but it looked
out important essential information. And then the

643
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.079
other one was I can't remember the
name now, but I know Daniel Perez

644
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:01.159
had the copy of this map.
He asked a guy in two thousand and

645
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:07.280
five to draw, and he drew
it and it made more sense than any

646
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.159
of the other maps, and it
was done later, the latest of the

647
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:15.519
maps. So we use those compile
and of course in the optidmus. It

648
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:21.000
has this log laying down where the
action started where Roger and Bob when writing

649
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:24.239
that day for to Camamaran Song went
down and then they got spooked, and

650
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:28.599
it's supposed to behind a big root
ball. The confusion was that it de

651
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.760
handens x where the river makes this
nice little s turn. There's some root

652
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:36.559
ba hauls and some wood deposits that
nature puts there, and you're looking at

653
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:39.119
this going that's like a pile of
stuff, you know, yeah it is.

654
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:44.760
We found out that maybe a citing
took place at this large rootball that's

655
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:49.679
still there about one hundred feet down
straight from one of those areas. But

656
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:53.920
he had some family issues so he
can no longer participate with the project on

657
00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:58.519
site. But he was not convinced
that the locations we were looking at.

658
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:01.039
So here was our devil's advocate for
the rest of the research. Over the

659
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:05.599
next two years, we still pushed
on. We needed a replacement. So

660
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:08.239
a replacement ended up being a buddy
of mine, Raddy Kelly. So I

661
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.800
got suckered in on this project,
but he was very helpful. He worked

662
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.000
with us on that one day for
hours, going aimlessly, going back and

663
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:19.440
forth, but we finally got that
spot. We've decided we had to do

664
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:23.840
a north south line and an east
west line. We wanted to try to

665
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:29.079
fit in and map out this area
so we know what it had. So

666
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.280
we have this thing called the Renee
the Hinden Overview. In seventy one,

667
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:38.119
Renee had his kids with him and
he had climbed up to the southeastern corner

668
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:44.519
of the hillside and he took this
photograph and it's an overlaid photograph that shows

669
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.000
the film site in seventy one,
which means trees are growing back in.

670
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:52.920
It's still an open sandbar that still
exists. You can see artifacts. In

671
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:58.800
two thousand and ten, it's overgrown
like a jungle. You cannot see those

672
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.679
artifacts. We see some of them, but they're all under vegetative cover and

673
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:07.639
it's dark. It's game trail,
and you're getting poked in the eyes by

674
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:10.840
branches and you're getting your ankles shreaded
by the California blackberries as you're trying to

675
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:14.840
walk through it. So in order
for us to be sure as you can't

676
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.760
go through it, cut all the
trees down. It's a federal piece of

677
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:22.800
land and it's a Riparian habitat.
But if you can remove all the trees

678
00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:27.320
like white ar or whatever, you
can remove whatever you want. And then

679
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.480
you have the sandbar that was placed
there in nineteen sixty four with the big

680
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:34.400
flood, so that leveled everything out, and that's why it's flat there.

681
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:38.599
It's sold the high water to pre
siltation. But now it's all a great

682
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:44.920
seatbed for all sorts of vegetated matter. So north south line, we took

683
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.800
the middle and we made that our
central position. The question was how far

684
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.280
you want to cross the creek and
go down, So we picked a place

685
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.719
on the gravel bar that was next
to an alder tree, so that becomes

686
00:43:55.880 --> 00:44:00.800
position number one, and we ran
our line straight all the way north with

687
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:07.039
a slight prected declination because the world
is flat, sorry, but we had

688
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:12.920
the declination line on it. So
we pretty much followed that. And every

689
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.760
time you get to a big tree, you can't go through. You have

690
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:19.239
to go ninety and continue. So
we went through. We did a front

691
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.480
side bearing, a backside bearing,
and then we continue and we try to

692
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:27.360
keep it in a straight line,
because two lines gives you a point,

693
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.159
but three gives you a direction.
So if you can line all three lines

694
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.159
up. You have a direction of
travel. You don't have a very good

695
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:37.079
direction of travel if you only use
two and you get one hundred yards away.

696
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:38.519
So you got to line them up
and back bearing all the way.

697
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.039
When we got to the very back
there, after cutting holes so we could

698
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:46.400
take our survey marks and crawling for
bushes, we got to the very end

699
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:49.639
and we're standing in front of what
looks like, I don't know, a

700
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:53.119
maple tree, a big old maple
tree, A big old maple tree that's

701
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:58.360
got like a weird kick in it
that if you look really closely at frames

702
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:00.880
three fifty two, and there's a
maple tree in the background and has a

703
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:06.199
little kick to it. So that's
when the brain starts going, maybe that's

704
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.000
a circumstantial coincidence at this point.
Yeah, you had to wait till you

705
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:15.840
get a couple hundred circumstantial coincidences before
you decide you got some. Stay tuned

706
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:22.519
for more sasquat Chotasy were right back
after these messages. So we're looking at

707
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.679
this tree and it's a maple tree. And guess what's on the left of

708
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:29.280
this maple tree. You're right,
here's a big old fir tree, and

709
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:32.719
on this fir tree it looks like
little acorn spots where the birds have kicked

710
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:36.920
out little holes of them to put
stuff in them, and you're like wow.

711
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:38.800
And then you look off to your
right and you're like, God,

712
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:42.559
that looks like you could gone.
It can't be that easy. That's not

713
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:44.639
it. And then on the other
side of that one, it was just

714
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:46.880
snag that had the top broken off, which is no longer as tall as

715
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:50.880
it used to be, and you're
like, that could be a snag.

716
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.199
And then you look over against your
right and there's this fir tree that's bigger

717
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:57.760
than the middle for tree. It's
got these branches sticking out at the base.

718
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.119
You go, that's the ladder tree. That's all circumstantial. So once

719
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:05.119
you had the north line, we
picked the halfway point, and then we

720
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.880
did east west. Once you got
the east west line, by the way,

721
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.599
you have to cut poles sheet you
can see where you're going type thing.

722
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:15.079
And then we had to break him
into thirty foot squares. Why are

723
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:19.840
you doing the thirty foot squares because
it's better that than a forty foot square.

724
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:22.360
So you cut him into his little
squares and you're lining them all up

725
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:28.400
so they're parallel lines. And we
did flags in every corner so we know

726
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:32.760
where the corners were. Once you
got this whole sandbar pretty much gritted flag

727
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.239
with lines still work in there.
So now you're going to draw in all

728
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.519
these artifacts, right, how about
a log here, a palisadist there,

729
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:45.280
decaying material here, here's a young
fur. You can't fit in. That's

730
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.039
not right, Let's mark it anyway. What about that old one over there,

731
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:51.719
let's put it there. We got
how old it is. So you

732
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:54.599
went through and you mark all the
artifacts within these squares. Once you got

733
00:46:54.679 --> 00:47:00.000
done with that, guess what.
Now you have to draw and perverted into

734
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:05.079
a map. And once you've found
that, now you have to take that

735
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:08.519
overview. Remember we talked about the
Dehendon seventy one. Now you have to

736
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:15.320
take that and superimpose it over the
top of your bride. Not only that,

737
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:17.440
you have to get the north south
directions right. It was almost like

738
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:21.599
magic. Now you're looking at this
yere and you're going, this is weird.

739
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:25.280
So now you have these clusters of
artifacts that you're labeling but with the

740
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:30.760
American alphabet, and you're matching these
clusters with this overview. Now you realize

741
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:36.800
you run out of the alphabet,
so now you're using lower case a's versus

742
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:39.800
uppercase a's. So there was plenty
of evidence here, and when we got

743
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:44.639
to that point where we started this
process, we had enough to go to

744
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:49.159
people like Daniel Perez who said you'll
never find it with our first map we

745
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:52.199
did we just hope keep it.
It got to the point we send that

746
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:57.719
and the seventy one over to Daniel
Perez. He goes, congratulations, that

747
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:01.360
you guys got it. When you
have some tell you that you will never

748
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:07.079
find it and then you find something, they have to eat cro or apologize

749
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.559
for what they said or support you. We had some people who never really

750
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:13.880
want to support us on it because
they did not feel that it was there.

751
00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:15.960
They felt it was somewhere else.
Not to mention any names, but

752
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.840
the initials is as M and then
as a period, and there's a K

753
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.760
in a period in name bast names
VA vs. Some people still stick on

754
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:28.519
the locations and swear by them,
but we have yet to see those people

755
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:31.280
come over to the location where the
actual film site is and chat with them,

756
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:36.400
sit down with them, go over
what we found with them and say,

757
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:37.920
hey, what do you think now, and I'm pretty sure one hundred

758
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:40.360
percent they're going to say you can
lead some in the water, can make

759
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:45.159
them drink it. They're going to
say, you're right. But then if

760
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.599
you are wrong with certain things and
you stick to it and then you could

761
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.039
proven wrong, what does that do
to your credibility? It kind of obtaints

762
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.800
a little bit. So you got
to come up with another invention or something

763
00:48:54.880 --> 00:49:00.159
to keep it going. MK did
great stuff. He stabilized the film some

764
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.519
great stuff. When we were doing
research, Steven was still communicating with him,

765
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:08.000
and what he did is he took
the backdrop and we thought it was

766
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:13.639
a hillside, and it looks like
a hillside right fifty two. It's not.

767
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:16.800
It's the short bluff and then it
levels off, but you couldn't see

768
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:22.119
that very well. So what he
did is he used colors and made it

769
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:24.920
so you could see where it dropped
off. And he was right about the

770
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.920
backdrop being not total kill site.
So I'll give him credit for that and

771
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:35.400
stabilization. But I'm not going to
talk about the massacre theory stuff way out

772
00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:37.599
there. It doesn't concern anything we're
working on. But everything tule of their

773
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:40.239
opinion. I don't know everything they
see. They have the way of looking

774
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:45.760
at it. I just know that
we know it's upstream from where MK Kills.

775
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:49.559
The film site is. So we
started get enough information to it and

776
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:54.800
in twenty twelve Bill Mouns love that
guy, Bill Muns is invited. Steve

777
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:59.079
has been with them. He's been
working on some models. He has taken

778
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:04.360
the movie footage itself and created a
map based on the movie footage. Now

779
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:09.000
that is mathematically magic. So we
invited him. In twenty twelve July,

780
00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:14.760
we called the Bluff Creek Film Site
Blowout and we had about seventeen people show

781
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:17.920
up for that, including a Cliff
was there, Bubbo was there. A

782
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:21.559
lot of people were there. We
also got Bill Mints to come down.

783
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.320
So Bill Mikes got a chance to
finally get to the film site. He

784
00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:28.880
had been working on that for five
years, never been to the film site.

785
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.119
Got him walked down there. We
started walking right towards it, and

786
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:35.159
so he got the hindens X.
That's when you step back a little bit

787
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:37.920
and you go, Bill, what
do you think? We were talking and

788
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.599
Bill wasn't saying anything. So once
we got crossed the creek and up to

789
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:45.880
the upper sandbar. So, Billy, why don't you take the lead,

790
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:49.239
And it's that way, go right
ahead. So we followed him because he

791
00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.960
wasn't listening. He was quiet.
You could see his mind was like checking

792
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:54.920
everything out. So we got to
the point where were stopping in front of

793
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:59.639
the big tree and we're standing there
talking and Bill's just looking at it.

794
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:01.519
You could see his brain's work and
he's looking at it, and he's got

795
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:05.480
all these papers in his hand,
and I watched his face, well,

796
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.480
the smile creeps onto his face.
And we got to get Bill a moment.

797
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:14.400
To get Bill a moment here.
So he wanders off and he's looking

798
00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:16.960
up at the playing field. Meantime
we're talking to each other. It was

799
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:20.840
fine. And he comes back and
he goes, yeah, this is the

800
00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:22.800
place, he said, Bill and
his trees took five years to get here,

801
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.760
and his ace and the Holy called
it was at the far right where

802
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:31.880
these two trees he called Laurel and
Heart, and also the snag we called

803
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:37.880
the the spiky snag because it's broken
out. So we don't agree on all

804
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:40.320
names, but that's that. And
he called Lauren Hardy tree. We accept

805
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.079
that. When you're standing in front
of the tree, it looks like one

806
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:49.039
big tree. When you back up
and move towards where Patty was walking,

807
00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:52.519
you could see the two trees.
One's a large street, one is skinny,

808
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:55.280
and Laurel Hardy with it where the
slapstock comedians. One's fat. One

809
00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:59.679
was skinny. When we get close
to the trees that cross over, it

810
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:01.679
looks like one tree. We mapped
them their on our maps, but we

811
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:04.920
didn't have a name for them.
We just said there's a bunch of trees

812
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.480
over there. But he just confirmed
what we had worked on. But by

813
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:12.679
twenty twelve we pretty much had an
idea what we We made the public in

814
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:16.199
twenty eleven for sure, because what
it was is Roberts trying to finish his

815
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:22.440
map and make sure he's right,
because can you imagine you spend your reputation

816
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:25.920
and your time trying to explain something
and then you find out you're wrong.

817
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:30.239
I don't want to be that guy. I'm expected to do a better job

818
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:34.320
than that, So I was holding
back. So everybody and the team said,

819
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:36.920
yes, Roberts the last guy.
They hounded me. They hounded me

820
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:39.639
and it wasn't until twenty eleven when
I did the super map when I made

821
00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:43.679
it really pretty, I said,
yeah, okay, I'm in. But

822
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:47.480
that was that And since then we've
been doing the camera projects looking for wildlife,

823
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:52.000
which is nice in a way because
we have the cameras out there and

824
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:54.840
doing park work. We had hidden
camera guys all the time I had did

825
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:59.920
wildlife projects. What was a goosebin
tree that held water for almost a year.

826
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:02.440
The bears loved to wallow in it, so I set cameras on it

827
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:07.159
and I got to learn when the
hibernation state the bear took the parks.

828
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:09.320
Since we're about ten miles from the
coast, they don't spend a lot of

829
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:13.960
time sleeping, but about a month
and a half they go into a stupor

830
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:15.519
and you can see the big fat
bearers when they go in, and they

831
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:19.079
don't see me anymore than their skinny
bears. When you see him again,

832
00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:22.599
and they have the markings you recognize. But that was the experiment that I

833
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:25.639
did at the parks, and twenty
twelve we set the first cameras out.

834
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:29.320
Yeah, I forgot to miss Jamie. I got to throw this in for

835
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.599
Jamie because he's be included as well. Jamie was a student at the Humble

836
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:37.599
State and he was working at a
math class. So in the beginning of

837
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:42.199
twenty and eleven, in the spring, we asked him to use his maths

838
00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:46.760
skill sets off the maps we had
and see if they lined up with the

839
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:50.960
hind and overview. So he did
that and he confirmed it as well,

840
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:52.880
so he said all the right things. So he became a member of our

841
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.599
team. And he was also pushing
the camera project pretty much. So he

842
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:01.079
and Rowdy took the lead on the
camera projects. And so we were checking

843
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:05.719
cards, putting cameras out, and
that was a big thing. But in

844
00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:10.840
twenty twelve we actually captured a humbold
Martin in one of our frames. Of

845
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:14.840
our cameras. We had the I
want to say the bush nails, but

846
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:16.920
there are movie cameras on them,
so you got to see movement. So

847
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:21.800
on this one area by the big
rocky plug, we had the camera up

848
00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:25.679
and this little weasel like animal bounding
across it. And but the biggest time,

849
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:30.000
we didn't know quite what it was
because you have the fissures which are

850
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.519
too big. That's bigger than that. You have a Martin's. Yeah,

851
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:38.000
we've dot maybe with somebody's sperit.
But the Humboldt Martin is an animal that

852
00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:42.920
was not seen very often. It
was still seen, but very rarely.

853
00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:46.079
So I saw one of those in
two thousand and seven when I was sitting

854
00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:49.840
on the beach with a friend of
mine and it screamed at as they ran

855
00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.280
away, and that was just a
weasel of some kind, but we find

856
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.679
out was humble Martin. Said that
they're very rare and that they like old

857
00:54:55.719 --> 00:55:00.639
worlds for us, but we actually
documented one. So one of the claims

858
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:05.159
to fame for the Bluff Preak project
is we were able to capture existence of

859
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.639
a Homo martin a few types,
which is really cool. With those cameras,

860
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:12.199
we get teased a bit because we
don't hide the cameras. When I

861
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.639
did my job for the parks,
I hit all my cameras, but I

862
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:19.039
checked them. And if we put
a camera up with like it Bluff Creek

863
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.119
because of the port Ordford cedar brute
rot issues, the virus is killing the

864
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:30.159
quarter of cedars that they closed the
gates right after honey season in October.

865
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.639
They don't reopen them until late May
or June, so putn there's no public

866
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:39.880
access during those time periods, so
it's a wild area that has no access

867
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:43.920
thuring those time periods, which is
cool. So if you can't get in

868
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.199
there, check your cameras and you're
putting on them to camouflage them. The

869
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:52.679
snow the rain pushes us up back
in your viewshit, And that's one of

870
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:55.920
the reasons that Jamie was adamant of
not hiding him that well, because of

871
00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:00.159
maintenance issues what we call a lot
of while off on. There a lot

872
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:04.679
of mountain lions and a lot of
bear activity. There's a lot of bears

873
00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:07.119
down there, and there's bear sign
everywhere. There's no shortage of that.

874
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:13.760
But then people have experiences there and
some swear other bigfoot experiences. I'm not

875
00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:16.119
there to say they're not because I
didn't experience them there. I've had some

876
00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:21.119
weird stuff happen to me as well. The verdict is still out. Ladies

877
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:22.880
giggling and talking and you go to
say hi to them and they're not there.

878
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:29.639
You hear people talking around you and
you can't see them. Now,

879
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:32.880
are being stuck by something of walks
in two Lakes that stops walking when you

880
00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:38.159
walk a couple times. That's unnerving. When you're by yourself in rock tossing

881
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:44.000
we're at Twin Lakes. I'm doing
the podcasting for the Bluff Project, doing

882
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.559
the end of the Field, so
I am. I also like to play

883
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:49.199
my flute. So I'm on the
shoreline there at one of the lakes,

884
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:52.599
blowing in my flute, making a
lot of noise. Because I don't claim

885
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:54.920
to be a musician, I make
noise. I make noise on a flute.

886
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:59.159
I like to blow up really loud
and just so what echoes off the

887
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.639
lake and off the hills. When
I was doing that, and Bart was

888
00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:05.760
back at his vehicle and Bobo was
in the back of his with the back

889
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:07.880
that and he starts yelling, and
I'm thinking, oh, they don't like

890
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:12.079
my music at all, with a
bunch of picky people. So I keep

891
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:15.360
playing. I still hear stuff going
on, and then I finally go what's

892
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:19.440
going on? So I walk over
to where it was and Bobo pickupchuck.

893
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:22.840
He says, something just threw a
rock down at me and he landed behind

894
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:24.800
him and I rolled down the hill
parts one of the lakes. It's all

895
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:30.360
overgrowing vegetations. You can't see it. But the thing was is the logic

896
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:35.519
comes in going did my loud whistle
shake loose the rocks and they came down

897
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:39.000
the hill the hillside in order to
get the momentum it needs or to do

898
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:43.199
what it did, or to come
from a place where it starts at.

899
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:47.400
There isn't it. It's not that
steep. Something obviously through it, and

900
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:52.079
there's no way it can't just fall
and roll that far in that fast and

901
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:55.519
do what it did from there.
It has to have inertia to send it

902
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:59.360
down there. So landed behind him
when he was having his head in the

903
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:01.000
back of the pic cup truck,
and it went down to think. So

904
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:04.880
that's one of a few stories.
I think the bow blocks at the same

905
00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:07.559
place, and I would say he
was with Cliff at the time. Across

906
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:12.880
the other side of the lake,
something made noise and jumps into the water.

907
00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:15.519
It's like a lot of our earlier
research. We didn't have the equipment

908
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:19.559
we have today. We don't have
the night vision or the thermal. We

909
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.440
have our eyeballs and our flashlights.
It's just that today we have a lot

910
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:28.320
more equipment, but back then we
didn't. But that's just a quick one

911
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:30.880
oh one. Roberts getting involved with
the Bigfoot stuff, like the Bluffree Project

912
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.719
book was one of many books tod
I write. But that's the one on

913
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:37.400
the Bigfoot subject matter. And I'm
working on another one with Bart because whyn't

914
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:42.239
I've been on projects together. We
choke about this about ten years ago.

915
00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:44.519
We should write a book. How
many times have you heard that we should

916
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:45.360
write a book. No one's going
to read it, but we should write

917
00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:49.360
it anyway. So we decided to
go ahead and do that. And we're

918
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:52.440
starting that process too. But the
Bluffery Project book is done, said and

919
00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:54.880
gone. Did you have a copy
of it there? You can hold up.

920
00:58:54.920 --> 00:58:58.559
If not, I've got one here. So the cover of the book

921
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:02.360
actually has the site and on the
bottom left here, actually it's totally different.

922
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:07.960
There that's the bluff Creek. It
goes around the edge, and it

923
00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:10.440
goes up and it makes the turn, and there's the Hendon's X right there.

924
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:15.519
You can see it. There's that
bowling alley right here, goes right

925
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:20.239
this way. That's north to south. This is the big curve. This

926
00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:22.840
is the Hendon's X right here,
and then it travels down here a little

927
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:28.199
bit and continues moving down and goes
back this way. But that's the aerial

928
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:31.280
drone taken of the film site by
by Roddy Kelly. Great shot. If

929
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:35.760
you see it's overgrown. There's a
few open areas right in this area here.

930
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:38.320
This is where Roger started filming.
You right filming here it crosses,

931
00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:44.039
but it all started down the way
back over here that people always tend to

932
00:59:44.119 --> 00:59:47.039
forget. Because we did a little
experiment of how long will it take you

933
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:52.639
to pull your horse down, get
your foot out of the stirrup that's stuck

934
00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:58.079
in bent, pull your camera out
of your saddle bag, roll off your

935
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:02.199
horse, rearrange you, and then
go on foot pursuit of whatever it is

936
01:00:02.360 --> 01:00:07.320
you're you're chasing down. We figured, I figured I'll speak on behalf of

937
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:10.960
myself. I figured that it takes
a little bit of time, so it's

938
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:16.719
not at haendance exits downstream. I
mentioned earlier that within one hundred feet there's

939
01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:22.679
another area that has a route that's
laying down and the extended piece on it,

940
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:25.039
like in a ten missus map that
sexually has been cut off. It's

941
01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:30.360
just a rootball, and so here's
rootball. So I'm thinking that maybe that's

942
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:34.719
more closely aligned to where it started. And it was all road right,

943
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:37.119
It wasn't a order, just walking
down the scrabvel bar. It was a

944
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:43.400
graded road because it flooded and sixty
four to sixty five despy sixty six sixty

945
01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:46.039
seven. They were blogging and they
would take the heavy equipment and lud bulldoze

946
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:51.159
and there's your road. And it
was easier to get to that place then

947
01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:53.920
than it is today. And he
drived down there and then it went up

948
01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:58.719
up towards the Bowling Alley section.
But they were on a road. And

949
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:00.719
if you look at some of the
earlier footage, like at the beginning of

950
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:06.880
the real for the for the Patterson
film, it has Roger pulling a pack

951
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:08.800
animal behind him, so well,
who's filming that? But anyhow, the

952
01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:14.519
simper story, but they're walking around
that that's just down the MK Davis area

953
01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:17.239
and between the peter Burn area,
and that's where that location is. And

954
01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:22.880
again it's it's an area that's slid
out and it's rabbled and it's flat enough

955
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:27.119
to be able to navigate off of. So all these things that you would

956
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:30.679
look at and try to put together, like looking at the old footage and

957
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.519
then going out there and trying to
find that spot that's buying Waldle, Like

958
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:38.880
where's that there's those track ways that
are on the shoulder of this and in

959
01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:43.159
the background when they're filming, you
see a mountain side lined up. Let's

960
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:45.039
go find it. You know those
kinds of projects where you go, oh,

961
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:51.199
where was the camp at Lows Camp
where allegedly those original tracks were found?

962
01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:54.599
Or where was the heavy equipment that
was tossed off with the barrels into

963
01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:58.920
this canyon? Where would that be? The tobaccie has to make sense.

964
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:04.199
So the fun part when you travel
around the area there looking at these things,

965
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.400
going yeah, this makes sense.
So I've been that bluff Peak a

966
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:09.920
lot. I used to be brillian
anal. I guess I still am about

967
01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:14.679
keeping track where you go. It's
like I was Janiel Press asking me once,

968
01:02:14.679 --> 01:02:16.280
how many times have you been?
Guess what Robert did? He takes

969
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:20.559
all his notes out and starts going
through his little journals, going, okay,

970
01:02:20.679 --> 01:02:23.039
tally them up. It only counts
when you go all the way up

971
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:25.280
to the Burman down again. You
don't have to go a way up to

972
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:29.519
the parking area. So it was
fine to do that. And it's been

973
01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:31.360
a lot, and Roddy's done a
lot, and that's want to make sure.

974
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:35.280
Ever, Bandy the Bluffreak proje.
He gets mentioned here got my list

975
01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:37.880
because when you get over sixty you
forget things. Could you write them down?

976
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:42.920
So Steven Storrow up to Roddy,
Kelly Ian Carton Kip Morell. He's

977
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:45.519
actually a member of the team too. I figured that if you want to

978
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:50.920
have a good program, you've got
to have Kip on it because if you

979
01:02:51.039 --> 01:02:53.119
have Kip on your team, people
are willing to listen to you, and

980
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:55.880
you get a lot of credibility with
kIPS on your Bigfoot of the Year.

981
01:02:57.199 --> 01:03:00.559
He's seventeen years straight, pretty to
give. We got to have him on

982
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:02.960
our team and he's got a great
sense of hearing and he loves to cook.

983
01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:07.559
He's a good listener and he loves
to sing. Tateronymous he's not related

984
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:13.000
to the higher Enemous, although it
was funny when he was with Bob and

985
01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:16.079
he was introduced as Tatonymous and Bob
yet one loves the live all rights things

986
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:20.559
and he had, oh, no, we're not related. The spelling is

987
01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:23.519
different on two letters. No,
we're not related. But Kate's been pretty

988
01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:28.719
helpful. I work with him and
with a rowdy on the Bluff Preak project.

989
01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:31.800
Podcast. I like the end the
Field stuff, which means Latimer gets

990
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:36.840
to be a paparazzi again and he
records you away from the real world,

991
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:38.679
and I always like a better story
that way. So that's in the field.

992
01:03:38.679 --> 01:03:42.400
We got a bunch of new episodes
coming up. I know people are

993
01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:45.559
waiting to see how they turned out. And of course I admit Jamie Radio,

994
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:50.800
Jamie Wayne Nice to go by that
and Dustin Severs. I gotta throw

995
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:52.800
a stone at Dustin Sievers real quick, because he was one of the handful

996
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:59.960
of people who watched all of the
seventy two Bluff Preak film site project video.

997
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:02.679
He watched every single one of them. He was so interested in the

998
01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:06.079
project that he watched all of them. And he shows up. Great guy,

999
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:11.280
very athletic. He lives in Oregon, very smart, very ingenious.

1000
01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:14.639
He wrote the latest book I held
up before we started. He's got a

1001
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:15.920
lot of knowledge, but he was
right there with us. We just do

1002
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:19.320
this because it's the right thing to
do, and we've taken on the film

1003
01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:24.599
side area to try to protect it, ineducate people on it, and sometimes

1004
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:28.440
we wonder if that was the right
thing, because when you open an area

1005
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:31.400
up to the elements and foot traffic, it gets destroy that much faster,

1006
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:38.159
so a lot of the film site
slowly deteriorating because now that these logs that

1007
01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:42.760
were still rotting but still in the
right position with the fungus going on him,

1008
01:04:43.119 --> 01:04:45.119
now people have been sitting on him
and been standing on him. It's

1009
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:49.719
messed up. Like the Smiley Face
stump and all those stumps that we exposed

1010
01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:55.440
to do our maps to find out
where the location was are now exposed to

1011
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.400
the elements. So we like to
ask people when they go there, because

1012
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:02.280
it is your place, just be
nice. Don't destroy it for other people.

1013
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:05.599
We don't like having fires there,
but some people started doing that,

1014
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:10.559
having fires on the film site.
Not to mention the fire danger's pretty high

1015
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:14.599
in that area and it burns around
it and it stays not so bad because

1016
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:16.760
the moisture likes to hang in the
bottom. But having people go up there

1017
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:20.119
and camp wherever they want or leave
their garbage, that's not cool. We're

1018
01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:24.559
starting to see that most people respect
it, are glad to be there and

1019
01:05:24.679 --> 01:05:27.360
enjoy it, but there's a few
and maybe it doesn't mean much to them

1020
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:30.840
as it does to other people.
The Bluff Cree Project is a big advocate

1021
01:05:30.920 --> 01:05:34.079
for protecting the areas, letting people
know about Humbo Martin's. So it's a

1022
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:38.920
cool place. That's very good advice
for people who go up there. Be

1023
01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:42.920
respectful people. Don't go up there
and dump your shit out. Don't start

1024
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:45.199
fires. Leave things the way that
you found them, and leave them better

1025
01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:47.679
than you found them. Robert,
I will link to the book in the

1026
01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:51.159
show notes. Everybody, go check
out the Bluff Break Project book. I've

1027
01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:54.719
had a blast talking to you.
I really appreciate you coming on. You're

1028
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:58.119
a wealth of knowledge. Man.
It's been really fun. Every time I

1029
01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:00.039
get invitation to talk about it,
get to talk about it. Then that's

1030
01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:02.559
why I won't forget. That's when
you get old. You gotta keep telling

1031
01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:05.719
the stories. If you stop telling
the stories, you start forgetting stuff.

1032
01:06:08.199 --> 01:06:16.280
They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay. No,

1033
01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:45.960
I don't want to be alone.
World uppen job, this job that chid

1034
01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:57.280
everything right back back No joy for
me, Joy, stay right, come

1035
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:56.800
in right away, baby babyss still
states still start says side stay still say

1036
01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:10.920
games and games. MS Payson uses
ssens fast used mass