1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,960 Hey, this is Stephen Cole This is Gary Leadlon and you're listening to the 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,199 episode one thirty nine as a Crypto Cousins podcast. Fat your interest in bitcoin 3 00:00:15,279 --> 00:00:21,679 and cryptocurrencies by joining Hall of Fame podcaster Gary Leland on the Crypto Cousins Podcast. 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:27,559 And remember we are all cousins in the world of crypto. This week's 5 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,399 price a bitcoin eight thousand, eight hundred and twenty seven dollars. That's down 6 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:36,679 eight hundred and sixty one dollars or eight point nine percent over the past seven 7 00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:40,359 days. How do how do? How do? Steven? Welcome to the 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,159 show? Hey, Gary, thanks for having me excited to be Yes. 9 00:00:44,679 --> 00:00:47,920 So, what's so like out there right now? In California? California? 10 00:00:48,759 --> 00:00:53,119 It could be better all things considered. I'm doing pretty well. I'm near 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,759 Los Angeles and the whole state has been in quarantine for a while, so 12 00:00:57,799 --> 00:01:00,640 I'm kind of adapting to that life and getting into a good routine. But 13 00:01:00,759 --> 00:01:04,239 I'm looking forward to things being opened back up. And for everybody out there, 14 00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:10,120 if you during this show, if you seem to hear or see some 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,680 pausing or some lag I have noticed, and Steve and I were talking about 16 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,879 it. In the pre show. Whenever I'm talking to anyone in California, 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,359 they're all in their apartments because they're all locked in so heavily that there's an 18 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:26,319 excess strain on their internet for the building. The buildings aren't really set up 19 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,560 for one hundred percent of the people to be in there using the Internet at 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,239 one time. Absolutely. Yeah, it's good for Netflix and not so good 21 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:38,079 for people at home trying to use their Internet. Yeah. Yeah, So 22 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:44,159 how are you adapting? Have things changed any for you being stuck in your 23 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:46,799 house more than you normally are, because it seems to me that people in 24 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,519 California are kind of stuck in their house. Yeah, it's true to a 25 00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:52,719 large part. I do spend most of the day at home. I think 26 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:56,680 I'm adapting pretty well. At first, it was just tough to figure out 27 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,519 how to feel about the entire situation, you know, should I be terrified 28 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,680 out of the deal? I thought it would be a lot easier than it 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,239 is, because I'm a bit of a homebody anyway and just liked to kind 30 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:08,919 of be in the zone on work. But I didn't realize how much I 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,719 liked a change of scenery and even something as simple as going down to a 32 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:17,199 coffee shop and being able to work from there for a while I really miss 33 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:23,599 And my apartment has a lot of construction noise around it, so my ability 34 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,919 to focus has been an exercise to figure out. But all things considered, 35 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,280 not too bad. You know what I really missed the most because I haven't 36 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,800 been locked in at all. My wife was for like three four weeks. 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,000 She wouldn't you leave the house. I think after three weeks I talked to 38 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,759 her a new going to the park with me on Saturday to go for a 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,639 walk. But I've gone to work every day because I have a one man 40 00:02:43,719 --> 00:02:46,520 off the studio here, so I never saw anyone anyway, you know, 41 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,400 I drove up to the door, walked in, came home, and had 42 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:55,360 no contact with anyone. But I miss like socializing with people, like walking 43 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:00,280 down the street to the neighbor's house, sitting in their front yard or house, 44 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:04,039 having a glass of wine, you know, doing that. You know, 45 00:03:04,039 --> 00:03:07,479 we did that last week where like six of us met. We have 46 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,199 a small park in our neighborhood. That's why it's like a gated community, 47 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,439 so there's not a lot of people there, and we all met with lounge 48 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,159 chairs like in a big circle six feet apart, and that was kind of 49 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,520 nice to talk someone different than my wife, right, Yeah, yeah, 50 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,719 for a change in person. I mean, I've talked to people all the 51 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:27,280 time like we're talking, but to actually interact with someone is the thing I 52 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:30,560 think I missed more than anything while we were doing it was actually interact and 53 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:31,919 I still miss it because I'm not I'm used to doing it all the time, 54 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,280 not just like on a Saturday afternoon for two that two hours. Yeah, 55 00:03:37,319 --> 00:03:40,719 it's so true. I mean, zoom and conferences like this are certainly 56 00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:46,159 better than nothing, but nothing beats that energy right of just being in the 57 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:49,599 same room as someone, even for something as little as a lunch. Yeah, 58 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:53,639 I agree completely. And I miss h you know. And I think 59 00:03:53,639 --> 00:03:57,439 I'm going to have a hard time because I'm like a touch person. I 60 00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:01,560 hug, I shake hands a lot, and I'm not even wanting to like 61 00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:04,120 shake hands and hugs, So I don't know how that's going to affect me 62 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,479 mentally long term. It's not like I'm going up to people with gloves on 63 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,400 I wanting to give him a hug, you know what I mean. But 64 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,120 I'm like, I'm the kind of person if I haven't seen you all year, 65 00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:15,360 I'm probably going to give you a hug you know where. Now I 66 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,560 don't know how that's going to affect me mentally, changing my whole way my 67 00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:27,279 personality is. It's amazing how quickly people can adapt and change. And I 68 00:04:27,399 --> 00:04:30,680 was even in the apartment complex that I live in last week and I remember 69 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,920 holding the elevator, you know, just try to be conscious of if somebody 70 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,720 else wants to get in and all that, and they were almost like annoyed 71 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:41,959 that I was holding the elevator. They're like, why would I want to 72 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,759 be in the same elevator as you, Like you go up and I'm going 73 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,279 to catch the next elevator. And so it almost introduces this extra layer of 74 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:54,079 overthinking to all the social interactions that we took for granted, I hadn't even 75 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,120 thought about that. Yeah. Yeah, It's like I have a guy come 76 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,240 over him. This actually made me decide him gonna build. I'm I have 77 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,680 a big attic space, and I'm gonna build like a twenty by twenty foot 78 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:11,720 studio up there office instead of driving the work to a twenty by maybe thirty 79 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,240 foot studio. It be a little smaller, but it's just gonna be upstairs. 80 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,079 And I decided that with the money i'll say, from not paying rent 81 00:05:18,439 --> 00:05:24,600 and an extra internet, an extra security and all this stuff, I'll pay 82 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:27,839 for it in five years, you know. Plus i'll have this room edition 83 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,879 that someone else could use as a TV room, you know or something. 84 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,079 And the guy came over to work on it to try to make a story 85 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,560 shorter than it was going. And he was an older fellow like myself, 86 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,240 and he stuck out his hand to shake hands, and I was like, 87 00:05:41,319 --> 00:05:43,480 I just kind of held my hands out like ah, and he goes, 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,040 oh, yeah, I forgot. We're not shaking hands. Yeah, so 89 00:05:47,079 --> 00:05:51,800 that was kind of funny. Tell me about your yourself, give us a 90 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:58,519 little short bio here on um who you are? You know? Yeah, 91 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,040 sure it is right. Bitcoin's been the big focus for me in the last 92 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,519 few years. I my background is in web technology mostly. So born and 93 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,879 raised in Missouri from the Midwest. Originally went to school out there, studied 94 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,199 computer science, and I moved near Joplin. So I was born in Kansas 95 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:23,600 City, but then moved to Joplin. In a small town near Joplin. 96 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,199 After that, Yeah, So went to college down in that area studied computer 97 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,000 science was always kind of a computer narrowed growing up, even when I was 98 00:06:31,079 --> 00:06:34,079 much younger. I wish they had computers when I was growing up. All 99 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,839 right, It's funny, I feel like, I, you know, I 100 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:42,720 wasn't around for the early days of the Internet by any means. All of 101 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,920 that was kind of in place, and I was around the like Windows ninety 102 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,519 five and Doss Days were kind of the first things that I remember tinkering with 103 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:56,360 as as a middle schooler, I suppose, but he just made me appreciate, 104 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:58,720 like, oh wow, if you had seen and been around for this 105 00:06:58,759 --> 00:07:01,040 stuff so early then, and how amazing that would have been. And I 106 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:05,600 often feel that way about bitcoin. It's kind of my opportunity to be involved 107 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:11,639 with something so transformative early, I hope. But in terms of my background, 108 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,680 yeah, studied computer science. Then spent about ten years up in Silicon 109 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:20,160 Valley, so I was doing web engineering for some big web companies and some 110 00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:24,639 small startups. I was at eBay for the first few years. That was 111 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,920 kind of my first foot in the door in Silicon Valley. I was at 112 00:07:27,959 --> 00:07:33,079 eBay about four years as engineer, mostly doing back end systems and Linux type 113 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:38,480 technology and then let's see, after that, I got fascinated with the small 114 00:07:38,519 --> 00:07:44,199 startup scene. So I saw the cloud computing movement and kind of the consolidation 115 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,399 there of companies like Amazon Web Services, and I knew some people I really 116 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:55,040 admired who were involved in companies, so I hopped over to the startup world 117 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:00,279 and took some swings at that. That whole time, my professional focus was 118 00:08:00,959 --> 00:08:05,399 web and internet infrastructure. But around two thousand and twelve I started hearing about 119 00:08:05,399 --> 00:08:11,240 bitcoin while I was at those startups. And then in twenty thirteen, when 120 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,600 there was that big run up in price, and I kept hearing about it 121 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,040 from co workers and friends, so I thought were brilliant people. I was 122 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,319 like, why are they so into this thing? You know? Is is 123 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,920 there something really here? And so late twenty thirteen I started looking closer into 124 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,200 bitcoin, and then I just you know, I became fascinated and that became 125 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,919 my passion and became more professionally involved in that scene around twenty sixteen, So 126 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,080 that's when I started investing in companies in the space and trying to learn more 127 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,080 about angel investing and seed investing and uh, you know, we improve at 128 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,519 that and make that more of my focus, and that's been my focus for 129 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:52,840 the last few years. Well, you were a seed investing like Cosa, 130 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:58,480 Samurai Wallets, Tocy Energy, and swan Bitcoin, which swan Bitcoin's just now 131 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,679 get in, out and out, and I'm an advisor to them. So 132 00:09:03,879 --> 00:09:07,480 you've been in some strong names. He tell me about that. I'm kind 133 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,960 of curious. How does that work, being a seed investor and a startup 134 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:15,879 like that. I've just always been curious about that. How does that work 135 00:09:15,919 --> 00:09:18,600 and what's the deal on stuff? Not. You don't have to give me 136 00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:22,840 a specific company or anything, just a general yeah, in general. I 137 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:30,240 became fascinated with that kind of investing as part of being an employee at those 138 00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:33,600 types of startups. So, you know, I worked at that cloud computing 139 00:09:33,639 --> 00:09:37,600 startup called cloud Scaling. I was at an AI and deep learning startup called 140 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,480 their Blend of Systems, and as an engineer and kind of managing teams there, 141 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:46,120 I got some interaction with the board and with investors that we had in 142 00:09:46,159 --> 00:09:48,399 the company, and I just became really intrigued, like, what, you 143 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,240 know, what's it like to be on the other side of the table, 144 00:09:52,279 --> 00:09:56,759 And I saw the impact that someone could have on a company's trajectory as a 145 00:09:56,799 --> 00:10:01,480 really great investor in terms of making connections, helping with business rategy and all 146 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:05,399 of that beyond just capital. So that's kind of what sparked my interest initially, 147 00:10:05,639 --> 00:10:13,519 and I think I realize that it's this cool intersection of the ability to 148 00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:18,240 certainly like try to make money, but also to try to kind of predict 149 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:22,039 to the future and like influence the future. Right, So if there are 150 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:26,440 entrepreneurs out there and they have this contrarian view and they want to build something, 151 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,679 some kind of tech, then if that's something that not many people believe 152 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,919 in, then if you are aligned with them ideologically or on that vision, 153 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,960 then you can really make or break their potential to build something and to kind 154 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,240 of affect the course of tech or the world. So, you know, 155 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,519 it sounds kind of grand when you frame it that way, but but I 156 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,000 really do love that opportunity of like getting to just see brilliant ideas, work 157 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:58,960 with brilliant people, and hopefully try to help them bring their vision to life 158 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:03,399 in some way. The mechanics are interesting. It's typically like a very illiquid 159 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,279 investment, so you'll be providing capital early on. Sometimes in a couple of 160 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:11,840 my investments. I've been the first outside check into the company. So it's 161 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,120 just kind of the founders in many cases even like messaging you on Twitter out 162 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:16,960 of the blue and you've never spoken to them before, and they say, 163 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,360 hey, this is something that I think would be cool to build in, 164 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:26,240 starting the conversation that way, and then it's usually like at least a three 165 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,919 to five year return on investment. If you ever forget a return, it's 166 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,879 startup investing is super risky, and there's most startups fails, as you'll hear 167 00:11:35,919 --> 00:11:41,759 all the time. But in some cases you can get very significant upside. 168 00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:45,960 There can be huge multiples. You can make ten x or hundred x investment 169 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,679 on your money. Yeah, I was going to say, I assume that 170 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:54,399 you're it's just common sense that most businesses startup, no matter what they are, 171 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,840 aren't going to stay in business five six years. So you're hoping that 172 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:01,399 the money you put in, if you put in for seven of them, 173 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,480 that's a one out of seven, it hits. The odds are it's going 174 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:07,519 to hit so good that it's going to make up for the six that loss 175 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:11,039 and you're still going to make some money. Yeah, total, And that's 176 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,960 the kind of thinking that you have to put into that. Yeah, that's 177 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,799 a really common framework in the angel investing industry. A lot of the literature 178 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:20,200 and best practices that you'll read it will say, you know, you've got 179 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,440 a place a lot of bets because most of them will fail, but when 180 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,360 you do find them, one with really high upside and that will compensate for 181 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:31,080 all those losses. And I think that's like, in practice, that is 182 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,720 a very effective strategy. You know, I don't have as much capital to 183 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:39,399 deploy as like angels who have been doing this for a long time or who 184 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:46,759 have already had huge exits. So given that and just the type of brand 185 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,919 that I hope to build or the type of thing that I want to be 186 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,480 known for, I don't really like the idea of just spray and pray, 187 00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:56,399 you know, put a lot of investments out there and hope that something works, 188 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,559 and it's like all about the dollars. The reason that I'm into this 189 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,240 is because I have a vision for what I think would be a good and 190 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:09,200 cool future, and so trying to find teams and founders that are enabling that 191 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,519 and working towards it, I think that's exciting. Like I love that aspect 192 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,440 of it. So I'm okay with placing far fewer bets than probably most professional 193 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:24,000 angel investors as long as they're like focused and ideologically aligned. That's what it's 194 00:13:24,039 --> 00:13:28,159 all about for me. So me and an angel investor. And as you 195 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,440 said, you're not someone who's sprang a lot of money, you know, 196 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:37,200 and you're maybe more limited to someone who's hit three or four giant home runs. 197 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,080 What And I'm not trying to think a way to ask this without you 198 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:45,960 giving me personal information, but how small can someone get into something like as 199 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,679 a angel investor, into something that looks like it could have good returns? 200 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,480 I mean how small do they go and they glad? When are you go 201 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,600 mess with this guy because he doesn't have enough money? I mean, did 202 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,720 they go, oh, we want you to come in if you've got five 203 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,519 thousand dollars, or do a lot of glad? We don't want anyone in 204 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:03,799 here. Let's say have one hundred thousand dollars. I guess is what I'm 205 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:05,799 trying to find out. Yeah, it really does vary case by case. 206 00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:13,360 Twenty five thousand dollars tends to be kind of a common lower barrier to entry 207 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:20,240 on a startup investment, But there are vehicles that helped democratize this a little 208 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:26,039 bit. So over the last you know, five plus years, organizations like 209 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,559 angel dot co have helped make angel investing accessible to more people. I'm looking 210 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,000 at your page right now on angel dot co. Yeah, yeah, so 211 00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:39,000 I've surprised. I found a page on me on there with an old photo, 212 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:41,360 and I was going where they help this page come? Where photo come 213 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,360 from? Yeah, it's it's a whole um, you know, social network 214 00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:50,000 in some ways, So that site is an example of something that. So 215 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:56,000 they're like angel syndicates where if you, as an individual investor, don't have 216 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,360 enough capital or maybe you just don't have the network or relationships to kind find 217 00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:03,279 your way into startup deals, then you can sign up to be a part 218 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:11,720 of these syndicates. And so the syndicate will pool together smaller checks from potentially 219 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,360 many investors and then get like one allocation to startups. So from the startups 220 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,639 perspective, they've maybe just got a one hundred thousand dollars allocation to a syndicate, 221 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,759 and that's as much as they have to care about it. But then 222 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:28,360 from the syndicate side, they know that that's composed of potentially a lot of 223 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:33,440 smaller checks. But I guess also on the same side thinking about it. 224 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,120 If let's just say if twenty five thousand dollars, let's use that number. 225 00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:43,840 If you had a lot of startups that we're looking for twenty five thousand dollars 226 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:48,559 and you had five friends, you just start your own kind of syndicate. 227 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,679 We all get together, Okay, but throw five five thousand. We're gonna 228 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,320 do this one. Yeah, we're gonna do this one. And you could 229 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:00,480 do more. You can get into more startups and spread it around and have 230 00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:03,039 a little piece of a lot more because if that one hits, that little 231 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,639 piece of the one that hit is better than all of the one that was 232 00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:11,320 the one out its ten that you were hoping might hit. Yeah. Absolutely, 233 00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:18,159 And it is pretty common to see independent angel investors share deal flow or 234 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,440 you know, have a strong network with one another and an idea of what 235 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:26,200 each person likes to be involved in, so that if something comes your way 236 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,360 and maybe you're a good fit and they're looking for more investors, or if 237 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,039 we're not a good fit but you know someone else who is, then you 238 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:37,639 can kind of guide things that direction and then at some point it might make 239 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:41,240 sense to, yeah, like formalize it into a syndicate, and then if 240 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:44,799 you're doing it at large enough scale where you're deploying a ton of capital, 241 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,399 then maybe that becomes a full blown investment fund, and that kind of gets 242 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,279 into the realm of venture capital. But what I love about early stage investing, 243 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:57,320 and I'll preface all of this by saying that I don't think I'm necessarily 244 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:03,200 an expert angel investor. I think I'm more of a bitcoiner, and I 245 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:07,119 like thinking about the type of future that bitcoin enables, and so I think 246 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,039 that view of the future and the tech that's involved is what gives me a 247 00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:15,680 potential edge when it comes to investing. I don't have a finance pedigree. 248 00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:21,839 I don't get excited about analyzing spreadsheets of returns and all the stuff that comes 249 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,880 in the later stages. But as for being an angel, I think it's 250 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,160 nice because you just have full autonomy. You can make your process whatever you 251 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,119 want it to be, so in you know, if you're at like an 252 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,240 A sixteen Z or a Founder's fund or some of those big name venture capital 253 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,920 firms that operate in later stages, then they each have their own process certainly, 254 00:17:41,079 --> 00:17:45,920 and some of them are maybe better than others. But in some form 255 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,319 it ultimately comes down to like taking what you think is a good investment and 256 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,039 justifying it to a lot of other people. And when you're independent, you 257 00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:56,000 can just do whatever you want. And if you want to have a whole 258 00:17:56,079 --> 00:18:00,640 thorough process, then you can. And if you want to write a check 259 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:03,880 after talking to a potential founder at a bar, then that can be your 260 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,160 process. So right, right, yeah, whatever you're you know, I 261 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,039 guess that would be an awso thing though, might be a good thing about 262 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:14,920 having a small cartel or small groups. You could have a guy who's part 263 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,960 of the team that that's his deal. He loves charts, Yeah, exactly, 264 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,519 And you have a guy who just you know, he gets all his 265 00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:23,480 information from talking to somebody. Because people have different skill sets, totally, 266 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:26,759 you can really assemble the team. Yeah, somebody could talk with someone and 267 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:29,960 go, man, I wouldn't trust that guy anymore. And I look at 268 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:32,599 him. Where the guy working stats will go? But do you stats all 269 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,759 good? You know? And he go yeah. And I would be remiss 270 00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:38,720 too not to give a quick shout out to bitcoin your ventures. So they 271 00:18:38,759 --> 00:18:42,640 are an example of an Angel syndicate one that literally exists on that website we 272 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:48,720 talked about Angel dot com. I'm not formally involved with them, but but 273 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:53,960 they are, Like I think the fact that they exist is really cool because 274 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:00,279 a challenge in funding startups has been for bitcoin only companies. A lot of 275 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:06,519 venture capital money is still like blockchain and cryptocurrency more broadly, and so if 276 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:11,960 you have a bitcoin focused strategy, it's been taught the Bitcoin Fortress Ventures. 277 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,319 No, the name is just bitcoiner at Ventures and it's run by Corey Clipston, 278 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:19,480 U, Stefan Levera, Jon Pritzker. A bunch of good bitcoiners are 279 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,200 doing that, so it's pretty cool. I just trying to look it up, 280 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,640 but I don't see it here. Oh I see Bitcoiners Social Venture. 281 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,240 You think that's it. No, it's I remember the search engine on angel 282 00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:36,119 dot co being lacking, shall we say, so that might be the problem. 283 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,240 But the name is just bitcoiner Ventures and it is it's a syndicate on 284 00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:42,640 angel dot com. Okay, well I'll try to find that later. I 285 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,240 just yeah, because I know everybody who's in that. Yeah, it's good. 286 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:52,480 So what would be the difference between just to educate me a Angel investor 287 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:57,480 and the next level up it does get The line is kind of fuzzy, 288 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:03,680 but but typically it's the amount of capital that you'll be looking to deploy. 289 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:11,359 So angel investors will typically deal very early on in what's called like preseed or 290 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:18,240 seed stage, and then after that would be more of early stage, and 291 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:21,920 then you kind of get into these so the seed investors just start them out. 292 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,599 That's enough money for them to get operating. So you're getting going, 293 00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:29,079 we have an idea, we'd like to do this idea, but we don't 294 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,640 even have enough money to get it started, and you're going, we can 295 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,640 help you get it started. We're not gonna give you a ton of money, 296 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,519 but we're given enough to get you going exactly, and we own a 297 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:44,720 piece of whatever happens for providing you this money and taking the risk. Girl. 298 00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:48,680 Yeah, And so it tends to be the highest risk portion of a 299 00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:52,680 startups life cycle simply because it is the earliest and the idea is not proven 300 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,319 out. It's pretty common for you know, at that angel stage, maybe 301 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:02,400 they're not even product market yet. Maybe it's an idea and division and you 302 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,279 literally have zero customers so far, or if there are customers, maybe it's 303 00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:10,480 just a handful and not too much traction yet. And by the time the 304 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:15,119 next guy comes in, now the ideas were working idea and there may be 305 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:21,039 a sales track record or a product in hand, so his risk is not 306 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,680 near as high. He has something to look at besides of drawing on a 307 00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:29,079 napkin exactly, and so he's willing to put in bigger money. And that's 308 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:34,160 where it typically gets more into funds and traditional venture capital as opposed to Angel. 309 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,079 Now. I noticed the ones you have listed on what does this site 310 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,440 again, angel dot COO or they're all crypto. Yeah, there are companies 311 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:48,599 cosa samurai like I said, are actually toci energy swan bitcoin. I mean, 312 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:55,599 so you like bitcoin, yes, understatement, Yeah, you try to 313 00:21:55,599 --> 00:22:00,839 get involved with entities that are early bitcoin. Yeah. There are some other 314 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:07,039 investments that I've made that are outside of the bitcoin space, but they aren't 315 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:12,119 Some of them are pre product or pre launch, so they're not kind of 316 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:17,799 in a place where you can talk as much about them. Or I think 317 00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:22,160 that in general on angel dot co also, they're just maybe not options to 318 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,000 search and find. They don't exist as entities on angel dot com. I 319 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:29,559 think it could be the reason that they're not on my profile, But that's 320 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,559 kind of a long way of saying I don't exclusively just invest in the bitcoin 321 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,960 space, but it is my focus, and when I do go into that 322 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,279 space, I do tend to focus simply on bitcoin companies and not I try 323 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:47,119 to avoid cryptocurrency more broadly or like blockchain technology companies. I think bitcoins where 324 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,920 it's at, and all of that is mostly noise. Do you think that 325 00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:56,839 Bitcoin Entities is a startup if they have a sound idea have an easier time 326 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:04,000 maybe getting seed round because there are so many bitcoiners that got bitcoin. I 327 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:06,880 mean, I'm not saying there's the time, but there are a lot of 328 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,599 people who got bitcoin at a relatively low price compared to the market price now 329 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,720 and believe in bitcoin just as much as the people who are trying to do 330 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:22,680 the start totally. Yeah, And so maybe they look at the investment as 331 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:29,000 number one being something they really believe in is needed, and number two they're 332 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,319 going with, gosh, I'm not going to feel anyone's gonna feel the crunch 333 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:34,240 when you throw ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars into it, But their 334 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:40,960 actual outlay into that twenty five thousand dollars might be three hundred that they actually 335 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,799 put into it originally. So that that's why I'm asking, And the entity 336 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,079 might take bitcoin, you know, where a lot of things to go, 337 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:48,799 Well, no, we want money, we don't, we don't want that 338 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:56,279 bitcoin. So using all those things, do you think entityam like Swan on 339 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,119 Swan because I like Corey and I liked the team, and I'm like yeah, 340 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,440 and I think they have a great tea. Do you think they would 341 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:07,400 have an easier time raising funds maybe than some places would, or it's kind 342 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,079 of a double ledged sword trying to raise as a bitcoin focused company, because 343 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,720 you're right that there are a lot of people who are early to bitcoin and 344 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:19,319 maybe have a lot of capital to deploy because of that, and I think 345 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:25,559 that there are examples of great companies coming to life for that reason. However, 346 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,200 a lot of those people also just see holding bitcoin directly as a very 347 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:36,599 attractive investment, and maybe the additional risk of a specific company trying to do 348 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,759 something on that space is not kind of worth higher. It's like the return 349 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:48,119 becomes measured versus bitcoin in that investor's mind, and so that's like, you 350 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,400 know, when you're trying to raise funds and you're comparing your potential returns to 351 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,559 bitcoin. It's like fundraising on hard mode. So no, no, that 352 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,960 makes a lot of sense. So you're saying to someone, are the startups 353 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,599 saying to someone, you'll give us a twenty five thousand dollars worth a bitcoin 354 00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:11,319 or approximately two and a half bitcoin right now, and within two three years 355 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,440 you can make one hundred thousand dollars. And then the person's going, well, 356 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,960 I think my bitcoin's going to hit one hundred thousand dollars apiece maybe in 357 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:22,480 a year and a half. So I would have two hundred fifty thousand dollars 358 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,440 if I just didn't spend it. Is it's really funny when you view bitcoin 359 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:33,039 when you're so you know, optimistic about bitcoin's potential to increase your purchasing power. 360 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,920 Then in the same way that it helps people lower their time preference and 361 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,559 not go and spend money at the mall when they're shopping for clothes as much 362 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,119 because they want to see their bitcoin increasing value. Like I think that applies 363 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,720 to professional investors just as much. Once you reach a certain level of confidence 364 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:56,599 and belief in bitcoin, then it makes you a lot more frugal or calculated 365 00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:03,799 about the ideas, and you don't part with that bitcoin lightly. So yeah, 366 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,359 so my account. In the other day, I was telling her, 367 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,920 I said, you know, she knows i'm doing on a bitcoin stuff. 368 00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:11,240 She goes, well, I'm trying to trying to add that as bitcoin. 369 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:14,839 Maybe you can start paying me a bitcoin, Geary, because I really don't 370 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,759 understand, as I can't ate a bitcoin, I'm going to pay a feat 371 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:23,000 I keep him, Yeah, yeah, I don't something. I'll teach you 372 00:26:23,079 --> 00:26:26,319 how to go buy it and stuff, but I'm not spending my feet. 373 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,359 Yeah. It's really funny too along those lines, but reminds me of over 374 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,640 the years since twenty thirteen, of just being the excited person trying to go 375 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,400 around and evangelize bitcoin and get other people interested in it. I saw this 376 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:47,440 very clear difference in how receptive people were to it when I stopped trying to 377 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,240 give it to them and started just showing them how much I care about it 378 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:55,759 and want to accumulate it. So early on. I would like if I 379 00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:59,279 would go to a university and talk to a computer science club, which I 380 00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:02,440 did a few times, and tell them about bitcoin, then afterwards I'd be 381 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,720 like, Hey, if anybody wants, you know, a dollar or two 382 00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:07,319 of bitcoin, I'll give it to you. And I didn't realize that at 383 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,920 the time. Psychologically, I think that triggers a lot of the same feeling 384 00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:15,279 as when you're walking down a sidewalk and someone's like trying to hand you a 385 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,319 pamphlet or you know, an ad for something. You just kind of have 386 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,160 this like it's almost like, oh, if I'm being given this thing for 387 00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:26,599 free, then you know, I'm skeptical of its value. It's like it's 388 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,200 being pushed on me. And so lately I've been taking the opposite approach. 389 00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:33,920 And if I'm in an uber or you know, I'm like talking to an 390 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,240 uber driver or a cab driver about something, then if bitcoin comes up, 391 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,359 I'll say, oh, yeah, but you know, I don't part with 392 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,359 bitcoin easily, Like those are super valued. I'm trying to like hold onto 393 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,519 those and accumulate as much as I can. And then you can almost see 394 00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:49,160 it. They're like, what, there's this thing out Yeah, there's this 395 00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:52,960 thing out there in the world that you're like spending a lot of time thinking 396 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,880 about how to accumulate, and I don't have any should I be thinking about 397 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,200 this, so that psychology is really interesting. Yeah, I've noticed then. 398 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,759 I don't know if you've had in the last even before Corona, at leastway 399 00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:08,200 as far as in person. Maybe back to December, I was having more 400 00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:12,880 people in my peer group, more Boomers that when I'd be in an event, 401 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,680 would come up and ask me, Hey, explain this bitcoin to me, 402 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,519 you know, wanting to explain it. And I was telling someone I 403 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:23,559 think Dan held Us talked to him. I was telling him, it's the 404 00:28:23,559 --> 00:28:26,519 super Bowl. This guy sat beside me, and the whole time he was 405 00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:30,200 asking him a bitcoin, which I love talking about, but I was at 406 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,480 a super Bowl party. I didn't want to talk about bitcoin. Old super 407 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:34,400 Bowl party, you know, And so I started getting up, moving away 408 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,720 from him, which I hardly ever do if someone wants to learn about bitcoin. 409 00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:41,279 But I was finding out more. I had more people asking me about 410 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:48,839 bitcoin. And now that it's Corona time, I've had people who I haven't 411 00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:56,079 talked to him Facebook in years that have been messaging me asking questions about bitcoin, 412 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,440 where to buy it at, simple questions, where to find out more? 413 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,799 And are people I haven't talked to that I've known in you know, 414 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,920 the internet, social world for years, but all of a sudden they're recontacted 415 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,160 me just to ask, because I've kind of gotten known on Facebook as in 416 00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:15,400 my five thousand followers or whatever, as the guy who knows about Facebook, 417 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,480 I mean about bitcoin. So have you noticed an uptick in people inquiring? 418 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:26,119 I have, and very similar to to you. It's acquaintances I've encountered over 419 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,839 the years. I went backpacking around the world for six months back in two 420 00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:36,960 fifteen and met a lot of people in my travels and mentioned bitcoin to some 421 00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:40,960 of them, and some of them, you know, haven't communicated with them 422 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,720 in a couple of years in some cases, and got more than one outreach 423 00:29:44,759 --> 00:29:51,160 asking about this bitcoin stuff. And I think that seeing the virus and all 424 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,279 of the changes as a result of that, particularly the money printing from central 425 00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:57,599 banks, is at the root of some of that. People are looking for 426 00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:03,119 alternatives and starting ask questions. A bunch of my high school cool buddies, 427 00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,880 you know, still my best friends in the world from back in Missouri, 428 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,240 are not They like, don't care about economics at all. They are not 429 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,920 particularly interested in bitcoin at all. But I've noticed even they are starting to 430 00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:18,400 joke about US dollars they're saying, oh, well, it's just funny money 431 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,599 anyway, Like they're printing trillions of it, you know, and it's kind 432 00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:23,279 of tongue in cheek and it's a joke. But at the root of it 433 00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:27,160 is like, yeah, people are noticing that trillions of dollars. People are 434 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:33,400 realizing that their dollars getting the VAD the government, the central banks can wave 435 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,039 a magic wand and bring trillions of this stuff into existence. And so if 436 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,480 you have your savings in dollars just sitting there at a bank account and somebody 437 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:47,960 is speaking more of those, then that should get you started asking questions. 438 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,960 I think I read an article today which I'm gonna is on Tomorrow's For a 439 00:30:55,039 --> 00:31:02,240 Minute Bitcoin Show camera. Who wrote the article. It was a fun one 440 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:06,920 of these big fun guys like Paul Tutor Jones, you know, and he 441 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:12,079 wrote in his article that people need to beware the governments might start confiscating gold 442 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:17,920 again, in his opinion, because the fact that they're going to have to 443 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,880 do it to crop back up the prop back up the value of their fiat 444 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,319 currencies. Yeah, and to be careful. He was basically saying, you 445 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,240 need to find an alternative, you know, which honey alternatives are the gold 446 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,759 other than mid coin. Yeah, that's something I think about a lot in 447 00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,640 the history. There's really interesting. So the government did that before, and 448 00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:42,960 not many average person doesn't know that. In nineteen thirty three, FDR issued 449 00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:48,440 Executive Order six one out two and its outlawed the private ownership of gold in 450 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,079 the United States and it said, if you are a citizen and you have 451 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,039 gold, then you have to turn it into US and we'll pay you. 452 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,039 But you know, here's the price that we are declaring that we will pay 453 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:02,160 you for it. I didn't know that until I got into bitcoin. I 454 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,680 mean, I didn't know that. And it's funny how that disappeared kind of 455 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:08,000 from the history books. Yeah, it's not talked about a lot. I 456 00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:12,079 wasn't taught that in school. Certainly the kind of glass over that one, 457 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,839 right, Yeah, that's something kind of important in US history. Yeah, 458 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,839 and so I think that is an important consideration when thinking about ways to store 459 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:28,000 your value, is how resistant it is to those kinds of attacks. And 460 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,440 what I'm what makes me optimistic about the future is that bitcoin has a lot 461 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:37,480 of strengths over gold when it comes to being resistant to seizure, so you 462 00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:42,599 know, gold is physical, and if you if you don't hold gold physically, 463 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,039 if you just invest in like a gl like an ETF related to gold 464 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,240 of GLD, then that's just kind of on paper anyway to start with. 465 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,440 And the you know, governments or banks can can kind of influence your holdings 466 00:32:55,519 --> 00:33:00,119 over those assets. But if you have physical balls of gold, like tucked 467 00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:05,079 away in a closet somewhere, then maybe that's resistant to those types of attacks. 468 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,880 But they can certainly kick your door in and do whatever they want with 469 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,440 you and then look around and take your gold away, but they can't exactly 470 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:16,160 do that with bitcoin. Bitcoin favors the defender in a way that has never 471 00:33:16,279 --> 00:33:27,079 been true for any asset ever before. But I've heard that conversation that if 472 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,279 bitcoin did become a world currency and it did do what we're all thinking it 473 00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:38,720 could do, that the US government, for an example, since it doesn't 474 00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:43,640 hold any or it doesn't hold enough. Even if it holds some, it's 475 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,000 not going to have enough. No one's ever, no country can ever have 476 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,880 enough that the first thing it would do would go to all the exchanges and 477 00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:54,319 confiscate all the bitcoin that's on the exchanges, because it could get there. 478 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,440 Yeah, I agree. And then the people who've left their bitcoin, even 479 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,119 if they five hundred dollars they left or one hundred dollars or ten dollars or 480 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,119 whatever the amount is, and they haven't messed with it because it wasn't a 481 00:34:07,239 --> 00:34:10,880 large amount. If you put that all together and you went to a coin 482 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,599 base and the kraken into all these places, that's a lot of bitcoin. 483 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,239 Yeah, I agree, and that would be confiscated by the government. Yeah. 484 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,119 I could see centralized custodians exchanges being targets for that, as well as 485 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:31,280 large mining infrastructure. So maybe if bitcoin becomes deemed critical to national security, 486 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:37,760 then I could see huge bitcoin minds being I didn't think about it nationalized. 487 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,880 Matt O'Dell has done a really good job in recent weeks of or longer than 488 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,800 that, potentially of kind of highlighting that risk too, of centralized institutions and 489 00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:51,679 talking about, oh, even if they don't maybe they won't ban bitcoin entirely, 490 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,280 maybe they will ban private ownership of bitcoin, and it could even be 491 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,559 framed as this way, that's good for you right where you know, they've 492 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:04,239 been too many cases of people losing bitcoin, so we're you have to use 493 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,079 a government approved way to hold it. And I well, I think in 494 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:10,360 nineteen thirties when they took to goal, they sold it to you that it 495 00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:14,440 was a good thing to do, to give the government your goal, that 496 00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:16,000 it was for the betterment of the world. And so I think it's important 497 00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:22,840 to start talking about those risks early on, because it's a lot more powerful 498 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,599 if if you are retweeting things that were said years ago, and you know, 499 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,119 there's evidence of people warning about these risks as opposed to reacting in the 500 00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:37,960 moment and just being seen as reactionary. So yeah, I think preparing for 501 00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:43,960 a future in which there's a bitcoin equivalent of Executive Order six two, like 502 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:47,239 when governments try to outlaw the private ownership at bitcoin. I hope that won't 503 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,280 happen. I would love for a smooth upgrade where it's just encouraged and governments 504 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:58,639 buy it as part of their reserves and everyone's happy. But I don't want 505 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:00,440 to say I'm printing as much me as they want. You think they will, 506 00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:05,199 Yeah, start turning the crank and you know, let's flow into bitcoin 507 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,639 and then put those bitcoins on the central bank balance sheet. I do. 508 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,159 I'm optimistic about the game theory there. I think that there's a path forward 509 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,920 that looks like that, but I don't think we should depend on it. 510 00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,440 I think not your keys, not your coins, take ownership of them, 511 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,840 be as private as possible. If you can acquire coins without KYC, then 512 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,880 that's even better. But just whatever way you can get more and more bitcoin 513 00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:32,760 really into the hands of individuals, that's where we gain resilience against those potential 514 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:39,079 attacks. Well, these are the kind of things and conversations that we have 515 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:44,280 at bit block Boom. Yeah, and if you've listened to the show for 516 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,159 the first time, then I want to make sure you know about the conference 517 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,320 that I host with the help a lot of my friends called bit block Boom, 518 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,360 which is on and it is happening at the end of August. Texas 519 00:36:54,559 --> 00:36:59,679 is like opened up almost completely now and by the end of August we're going 520 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:05,880 to be open I feel confident. So bit block Boom is last weekend in 521 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,000 August, and it's a bitcoin conference. It's not a cryptocurrency conference, it's 522 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:15,039 not a blockchain conference. This is a bitcoin conference for bitcoiners. So with 523 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,800 this would be our third year. So if you're not for me with bit 524 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,760 block Boom, take a moment. Go to bitblockboom dot com. If you 525 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,719 use the code word cousins cous i ns at checkout when you're buying a ticket, 526 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,800 you'll get thirty percent off the price of your ticket. So check that 527 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,239 out and I'll see you in Dallas, hopefully I will definitely be there. 528 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,320 How we originally yeah, yeah, well that's how we met is Pierre introduced 529 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,480 me to you saying I should I should meet Yeah, Piers fantastic, and 530 00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:45,639 I yes, fantast I went to bit block Boom last year, loved it 531 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,079 and looking forward to it again this year. I love the bitcoin focus. 532 00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:53,760 I love how grassroots it is. It's not a bunch of you know, 533 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,760 very It's basically the polar opposite of a consensus or kind of a suit and 534 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:06,079 tie marketing fluff conference. It's real instance do it. And I keep saying 535 00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:10,400 this, and I feel like I'm I just them on auto rewind and saying 536 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,760 this over and over. But I so much believe that we are going to 537 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,880 be the event of the year, because we're going to be the first real 538 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,639 event of the year since tone Vases event in Vegas. Yeah, you know, 539 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,320 so tomorrow I think we sign our platinum sponsor, which last year, 540 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,039 you know, we weren't able to get a platinum sponsor, and that's going 541 00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:35,760 to be our first big sponsor this year is our platinum Yeah, that's very 542 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,119 cool. It's going to be someone you know and you think a lot of 543 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,920 and they want to build a long term relationship with bit block Room. So 544 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,960 I think this year is going to be our year. And I think I 545 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,039 kind of think my feelings are that there are a lot of companies that had 546 00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:52,519 money budgeted for conferences this year that haven't been able to spend any of it. 547 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,039 Yep. And all of a sudden, I'm gonna be the first conference 548 00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:00,800 of the year and one of the only conferences of the year, and they're 549 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,280 gonna this is what I'm thinking. They're gonna go, well, how come 550 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,000 we not involved with that thing? What else are we going to sponsor? 551 00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:07,840 And then once I get them, they're gonna be hooked and they're going to 552 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,559 come back a year after year. Yeah. You know, it's like like 553 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,840 last year, the sponsor came but they didn't want to sponsor it, but 554 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,400 after being there, they wanted to be the Platinus spots and Virtuous Cyclement. 555 00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:22,320 They involved a little bit to see how successful it is and then get even 556 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,679 more involved. Well, now I have some questions for you. I always 557 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,599 ask when I have someone coming on here. I asked the Twitter world, 558 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,039 Bitcoin, Twitter, whatever we want to be love Bitcoin, Twitter, They 559 00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,199 have any questions for my speaker? So do I? You know, I 560 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,199 opened up my Twitter account like the first year, you know, and I 561 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,440 never used it for years and years and years, and I had like four 562 00:39:43,519 --> 00:39:45,119 or five of them, never used any of them. And all of a 563 00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:49,400 sudden, now that I'm on Bitcoin, that's all I use is Twitter. 564 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,880 I don't even use anything else. Say, it's amazing how that's changed. 565 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,920 Yeah, for me too. A lot of the connections that I've made, 566 00:39:57,039 --> 00:40:00,480 people that I met and formed really good relationship tips with started through Twitter. 567 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:06,199 I had a Twitter account for a long time, but never really used it 568 00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:09,000 until Bitcoin. That's the same exact way, And it took me a while 569 00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:13,840 even then we get using it. But now you know that's all I use. 570 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,119 Well, let's start with these questions. First, one is surfer Jim. 571 00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:20,440 I like surf. He is a good bitcoiner. How's that surfing coming? 572 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,599 How's your surfing coming? You had told him you were planning on learning 573 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,039 and that you're always welcome to come surf up there. So how's your surfing? 574 00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:31,000 Shout out to surfer Jim. I love that guy. So he taught 575 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,880 He basically taught me to surf over in New York, which is kind of 576 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,199 ironic since I live in southern California that I would go and become passionate about 577 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,440 surfing over in New York. But he took the Safetan and I out for 578 00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:47,679 a day on the water and it was a ton of fun. The I 579 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,360 he will be pleased to know that, in a few hours after we wrap 580 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,559 up this conversation, I'm headed out to the water to get my surf on. 581 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,800 I haven't made as much progress as he might expect. There's still a 582 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,039 lot of falling involved. But I own a board, I have all the 583 00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:07,559 infrastructure, and and I love the stuff. Sweet. I grew up, 584 00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:08,880 sir. I grew up in an island in South Carolina, so I grew 585 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,199 up surface and I was like from the high school surf team. You know, 586 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,360 we surfed against other. Having a high school surf team even exists, 587 00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:20,679 like a sign up a good yeah, like we always wear or orange T 588 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,639 shirts when we SURFD and like who played if we surfed against Bishop England, 589 00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:28,760 they wore green ones and we would start we would compete on Saturdays that we're 590 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,599 gonna be out to be surfing anyway. So it was a great day. 591 00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:36,440 Awesome. Yeah, And so your next question is from the Wizard of Oz. 592 00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:40,199 Someone knew to bitcoin has just bought their first SATs. What's the one 593 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:46,159 piece of advice you would give them. I think it would I would kind 594 00:41:46,199 --> 00:41:52,400 of ask them some questions about where those SATs are and how they bought them, 595 00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:57,679 and because I think if well, going back to what we discussed earlier, 596 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,960 having true owners ship of your bitcoin is just super important. And so 597 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,519 if someone throws a few dollars into bitcoin on a centralized exchange, then that 598 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,119 is wonderful. That's a great first step. That's how I got into it, 599 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:19,039 and that's important. But making sure that they know that that's not not 600 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,960 the end state and there are levels to this thing, and and encouraging them, 601 00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:27,239 showing them the value of holding your own bitcoin and being self sovereign and 602 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,920 just kind of guiding them towards ways to do that safely is really important. 603 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:38,719 Okay, good answer, Panic says, what's your favorite kebab sauce. I 604 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:44,440 love the range of questions. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know 605 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,360 if that was like, you know, and that's why I said, when 606 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,599 I asked these questions, you might like be a guy who makes kebab sauce 607 00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:52,599 for all I know. So it could be a real you know, my 608 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,320 pitch. Yeah, and you go, I just started a new brand of 609 00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,360 kebab sauce or something, you know, so I asked him off. No, 610 00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:05,599 no ownership or equity in any kebab sauce companies, unfortunately. But but 611 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,960 panic is a is a great bitcoiner, so I you know, I'm actually 612 00:43:10,199 --> 00:43:15,519 leaning towards the bitcoin carnivore direction. I'm on the ketogenic diet, the paleolithic 613 00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:20,559 ketogenic diet. So I'm a meat eater. I'm probably gonna have an antiche 614 00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,280 I've been a carnivore since January the first nice here, good for you, 615 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,519 boss, like seventeen pound. That's great to hear. Yeah, and I 616 00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:30,199 eat as much as I want. I mean, you know, literally, 617 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:37,039 it's great. I don't feel hungry, I you know everything, I sleep 618 00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:44,360 better. Improvements in many facets of my life since going keto and then even 619 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,039 taking it a step further. I haven't been strict carnivore in about a year 620 00:43:47,159 --> 00:43:52,760 now, but my diet is probably seventy five percent red meat, so it's 621 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:58,039 very carnivore heavy. And yeah, I notice a lot of positive difference with 622 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:04,199 that foundation. But I have a very anticlimactic answer for her. I'm more 623 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,840 of has eyeballs. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I do a 624 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,760 lot of fish, a lot of it. Yes, um. Yeah. 625 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,280 Like some people say, I don't eat anything with the eyes, I only 626 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,760 eat that, Yeah, salads, not food. It's what my food eats. 627 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:21,400 Yeah, that having eyes. Yeah, but I do avoid I tend 628 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,480 to avoid sugar, and I miss a lot of sauces, even things you 629 00:44:24,519 --> 00:44:29,599 don't think about, right, like ketchup and sauces like that barbecue sauce. 630 00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:34,239 I grew up in Kansas City and had a huge appreciation for Kansas City barbecue. 631 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,559 And even though I still treat myself from time to time, I try 632 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,760 not to just do that too frequently, and so I miss some of that, 633 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,320 but I feel so much better without it. I miss ice cream. 634 00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:47,599 That's the one thing that I miss. I love ice cream. That's my 635 00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:51,840 favorite dessert. But you know, every once in a while. If they 636 00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:55,800 fall, the family comes over and they will inevitably buy a couple of gallons 637 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,800 of ice cream. When they're all over there, I will get a ca 638 00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:01,760 fee cup. Yeah, and put some in there where I used to have 639 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,840 a giant ball that was overwhelved. It might have been happy, right, 640 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,559 that's like your appetizer. Yeah, but I will now I just can't resist 641 00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:14,519 it, and I'll get like two scoop or two in a cup, small 642 00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,800 scoops. He Now, you and Brian must be pretty good friends, Harry, 643 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,719 Yeah, we are, and he's out here. He asked a lot 644 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,559 of questions. He's great. Um. He has been a huge help too 645 00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:30,599 over the last year with the Orange County Bitcoin Network. So I also organize 646 00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:34,920 a meet up here in Orange County. It's the oc Bitcoin Network. We 647 00:45:35,159 --> 00:45:37,960 started almost a year ago to the day. In fact, it only one 648 00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:43,719 year tomorrow because it was Bitcoin Pizza Day May twenty second, m was our 649 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,960 very first event last year. Is that tomorrow? I think so? Yeah, 650 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,119 it's May twenty second every year. Yeah, yeah, it is tomorrow. 651 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,280 Yeah. Well for those listening with the twenty first now you know who? 652 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,880 Oh yeah, true. I so there will be the delay, but 653 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,599 I founded that meet up because I moved to Orange County and saw a lot 654 00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:04,440 of crypto meetups, a lot of blockchain meetups. There was nothing bitcoin focused, 655 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,239 so I was pretty disappointed in that, and I started a group and 656 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:14,000 then Brian joined shortly after, and he's just an all around good bitcoiner. 657 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,400 Um. So he's helped take things to the next level and it's got really 658 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,599 involved. He has experience in helping organize political campaigns and things of that nature, 659 00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:27,679 so he's been great. Well, I'm going to read you his three 660 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,519 questions. All is one, are you willing to go to jail for the 661 00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:37,679 ability to be free? Who is John Galt? And what did Elon mean 662 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,480 by the red Pill? I think I think you just have to go read 663 00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:45,159 the book to know who John Galt is or is there something there? Yeah? 664 00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:46,840 I know you got to go read the book. Um, Atlas Shrugged 665 00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:51,400 is my favorite book of all time, and I don't say that lightly. 666 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,079 Um it really, Well, what did you think of a movie? Horrible? 667 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,159 Yeah? Yeah, that's what is disappointing, because I think a lot 668 00:46:59,199 --> 00:47:02,960 of people are but coming intrigued about Atlas Shrugged in looking around at the world 669 00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:07,239 right now and seeing people kind of make Atlas shrug references, and so now 670 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,639 that the movies exist, they go to that to determine how to feel about 671 00:47:10,639 --> 00:47:14,280 it, and it doesn't really do the book's justice in my opinion. But 672 00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:19,639 I understand that the books are super long, so carving out the time for 673 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,280 that to me a challenge too. But that book three books, yeah, 674 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:27,440 yeah, they're like The fountain Head is also great. Atlas shrug Though, 675 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,119 changed my life. I think it gave me an appreciation for building things and 676 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,639 for people who do hard work. It's just the value of hard work. 677 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:43,679 And unfortunately you'll often get characterized as selfish or you know, like those greedy 678 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:49,239 capitalists who don't care about anybody. I just don't. That's not my takeaway 679 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,119 from it. That's just not what I see in it. I think it's 680 00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:57,400 possible to be very philanthropic, it's possible to be very charitable and social and 681 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,800 I care about and all that whilst having those values. I don't think you 682 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:06,960 can force that on a population and have it really Yeah, but it is 683 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,000 amazing how prophetic Atlas Shrugs has started to seem with some of what's happening in 684 00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:14,800 the world with you know, and it was written quite a while. Yeah, 685 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,639 it was written like back around like nineteen fifty forties or fifties, and 686 00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:22,320 they're, you know, seeing Elon Musk be ordered to stop what he's doing 687 00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:29,639 in his business by the government, invite these regulators. Just there are such 688 00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:36,000 interesting parallels with that story some of ion Rand's characters. So I recommend that 689 00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,559 book. Have you. I've watched Iron Ran on old talk shows, you 690 00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:45,800 know, when she was a guest, and she's not apologenic at all and 691 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:51,639 pretty even though her person interviewing and will make me confused on her thoughts, 692 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,719 she's pretty damn clear when you know, ask her her thoughts as that you 693 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,880 know this. Hey, Paul Witted wants to know, how did you get 694 00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:04,000 name Sunshine? Great question. Paul and I used to work together at eBay 695 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:09,360 and he's a great guy. I had the nickname Sunshine, and a lot 696 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:15,360 of people still refer to me as Sunshine. It's fun because I tend to 697 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,679 be a very smiley guy, and so people hear that this guy was nicknamed 698 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,559 Sunshine, and they assume it's for that reason that he's just kind of a 699 00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:27,119 smiley character about him. But actually it's because when I first moved to California 700 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,800 for my eBay internship back in like two thousand and seven or eight from the 701 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,599 Midwest. I went out and got my I had like a lot of sunlight 702 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,400 and you know, was getting a tan, and then I went out and 703 00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:44,239 got my hair bleached completely blonde. And so I walked into the office the 704 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,239 next day and somebody at eBay called me Sunshine and that just stuck. So 705 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,039 there it is. Softwign Hotel not wants to know. I don't know you 706 00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:54,760 had anything to do with this, but maybe you do. What guns? 707 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,039 Will you be shooting at bit block Boon. I went to the gun event 708 00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:02,119 last year that Brian Lockhart organized, loved it. Yeah he's doing it again, 709 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,559 he says, he's doing it again. So I didn't know what you 710 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,559 That's why I said. I thought maybe from the way the question was you 711 00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:12,079 were working with Brian, I'm putting it together, but that's going I didn't 712 00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:15,599 know you were. No, I'm just enthusiastic supporter in general. I think 713 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:21,559 you know then the stuff that like Ragnar leaf Graser is doing with guns in 714 00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:29,199 bitcoin and making gun ownership more accessible, like building the technology to ensure that 715 00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:34,679 defense is available to the average person, is something that I think a lot 716 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,480 about and believing, so I will I will definitely be shooting if there's another 717 00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:40,639 event a bit block boom, and look forward to trying out some other I 718 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,559 feel like I can still feel the bruise from the shotgun that was going around 719 00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:49,480 last year, so I'll give that a world again. Definitely supposed to be 720 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,199 that going on, and I guess from what I understand it might be bigger 721 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,679 this year. He Brian wanted to It was a test run last year. 722 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,239 Nice, but he doesn't want to open it up to the whole world because 723 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,199 everybody is shooting. Understandable, but he is going to open it up. 724 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,119 So I'll have to bring by a couple of my guns and leave with him 725 00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:07,360 so he can have more weapons there. If we have a bigger very cool. 726 00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:14,639 So I'm your Hoddleberry wants to know what's your biggest productivity hack? Biggest 727 00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:22,440 productivity hack? There are a couple. I think, like I've realized recently 728 00:51:22,519 --> 00:51:25,719 how much more productive I become when I have a solid foundation of sleep and 729 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,039 nutrition. I know that's just really generic, but if I don't get a 730 00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:34,599 lot of sleep, if I stay up late to try to work at something 731 00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:38,360 and just hammer something out, then it doesn't end up being as good as 732 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,199 if I just get quality sleep and I eat right and I spend half the 733 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,679 amount of time trying to accomplish that same thing. So well, Mark Mark 734 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:52,440 at mm local says Stephen tweets about health topics from time to time. Does 735 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:57,480 he see a relationship between bitcoin, low time preferences and your health choices? 736 00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:00,480 Kind of goes with what you're talking very much, so I do, and 737 00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:05,360 I think safe Adinamuse and his book The Bitcoin Standard helped open my eyes to 738 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:10,960 a lot of that as well. Just bitcoin helps you think more long term, 739 00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:16,679 and as part of that, you you care more about being around longer 740 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:23,880 and about your your life. And removing that high time preference and short term 741 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:30,519 thinking is transformative in so many ways. I know, I know people through 742 00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:34,400 bitcoin Twitter who have literally SAIDs me, I quit smoking because I want to 743 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,719 be around to see bitcoin moon, and I like those types of anecdotes are 744 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:44,000 really powerful. You know, when people get more optimistic about the future, 745 00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:45,960 they want to be around for that future, they want to help influence that 746 00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:52,159 future, they want to benefit from that future. Then it can ripple through 747 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:57,679 so many different facets it's like my wife. She always goes, you know 748 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,079 the one thing I hate about bitcoin, and I go watch. I don't 749 00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:04,880 ask her anymore because now I know the She goes, we're just so damn 750 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,000 all because we're both sixty five. She goes, why couldn't this have come 751 00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:13,199 out? Well, we're like thirty, yeah, and we would be able 752 00:53:13,199 --> 00:53:16,880 to reap the reward, you know. So she says, uh, I 753 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,079 have one last question for you, Beat from BTC x Zelko. What's your 754 00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:27,199 favorite wallet? And why? Oh I am I'm biased. I am an 755 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,880 investor in Samurai Wallet, but it is what I use personally as well, 756 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:37,000 and I used it before I became an investor. That's for Google Android only. 757 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:38,760 Is at the moment, Yeah, it's for Google Android only, but 758 00:53:39,199 --> 00:53:43,159 I stop. So. I'm an iPhone user primarily. That's my day to 759 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,199 day device, and I used to be really be hesitant to get an Android 760 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,840 because I thought, oh, you know, I don't want another phone that 761 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,760 I have to deal with just to kind of use this other wallet. But 762 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:59,400 then when I changed how I thought about it, and it's not like having 763 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,840 another phone. It's to me like, this is my bitcoin wallet, this 764 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,760 is my mixing device. This is what enables me to regain privacy in my 765 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,960 bitcoin. Person. You use two phones, yeah, but I don't really 766 00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:15,199 use I don't think of one as a phone. I think of one as 767 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,360 my Samurai device. Use your iPhone as your phone, and you have an 768 00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:23,639 Android phone that you use for your exactly Yeah, I bought and it's not 769 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,119 like your phone. It'd be kind of like having I guess the world. 770 00:54:28,119 --> 00:54:34,679 Way to relate to that is you'd have a iPhone and an iPod touch whatever 771 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,800 that is, you know what I mean, because that there's a lot of 772 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,039 stuff, but you really don't make phone calls on right, And I think 773 00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:40,800 there's just a lot of mental baggage for people that comes along with the word 774 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,199 phone, where they feel like there's this thing and I need to like pay 775 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,559 for a plan and I have a number and all that. You don't need 776 00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:49,840 any of that, Like you can just use Wi Fi and have this device. 777 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,400 You pay for it one time. So you just went in a store 778 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:53,880 and bought a phone and said I just want to buy the phone for sixty 779 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,039 nine dollars and I don't want anything exactly, Yeah, and you can be 780 00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:01,480 as price you want to be extra private, which I do encourage everyone to 781 00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:04,719 do. You know, you can go in you can walk into a T 782 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,480 mobile store hand them cash for a device. Wearing a mask now is socially 783 00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:14,159 acceptable. That's kind of crazy that you can walk in a bank with a 784 00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,360 mask on and gloves and then for that cost you get this device that can 785 00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:22,519 run Samurai and can do coin joints and just enable you to be private in 786 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:27,320 your like retake your financial sovereignty and privacy, and that's very powerful. I've 787 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,840 never thought about. I use old iPhones, you know, because they don't 788 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,360 need to have a lot of the bells and whistles. So like a bit 789 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:37,880 block boom. The people who will be working I like the T shirt shop 790 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,039 and souvenir shop will assist call it. They'll have older iPhones that are just 791 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,480 right now in storage and we'll pull them out just for that event. And 792 00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:47,159 all they have are on them a wallets. That's all that's on it is 793 00:55:47,159 --> 00:55:51,119 a wallet and it hooks up to Wi Fi, you know, and that's 794 00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:52,920 it. It's just a wallet on there. That's a good idea though in 795 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:58,880 the Android phones because it's inexpensive too. If there are any entrepreneurs out there 796 00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:04,119 who are building things in a cipher punk way to encourage, like to encourage 797 00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:08,960 a future of you know, bitcoin as the world's global base money and building 798 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,079 on bitcoin to help people be sovereign. Then that's what I'm all about. 799 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,519 And I love you know, even if I'm not investing directly, I just 800 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:21,320 want to see a future like that, and however I can help, I 801 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,239 want too. So so yeah, that's what I'm all about. My Twitter 802 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:30,199 dms are open. I'm s THENC on Twitter and hope. I'm always just 803 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:35,000 down to connect with good bitcoiners and chat. Sweet. Where can people follow 804 00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:38,840 you? I'm on Twitter st h E n C like S then C. 805 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,840 That's probably the best starting point for people to follow me. And then I 806 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,840 run the Orange County Bitcoin Network, as we touched on, so for anyone 807 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,519 in southern California. And we've also been doing a lot of zoom virtual events 808 00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:57,159 accessible to anyone in the world during this uh these times. Um so we 809 00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,840 do monthly stuff and that's oh we seetcn on Twitter. We're going to have 810 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,719 an event actually coming up at the end of May on the thirty first, 811 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,400 with Stefan Vera and Matt O'Dell talking about the importance of running full nodes and 812 00:57:08,599 --> 00:57:14,480 and that whole not you, not your keys, not your online event. 813 00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:15,960 Yeah, it'll be streamed to YouTube, so anybody can tune in and learn 814 00:57:16,039 --> 00:57:19,679 the value of full nodes and options we're doing. So we have a pretty 815 00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:22,039 good group there. Yeah, we've got a solid We've got over three hundred 816 00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:25,079 people who are registered as part of our group online. But we have a 817 00:57:25,239 --> 00:57:30,599 really really solid core group of good bitcoins and others are like in LA. 818 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:35,360 There's also Andrew Yang's bit Dev's LA group, which I'd love to give a 819 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,360 shout out too. They put on great technical events and we have a really 820 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,199 good, you know, culture of supporting each other and attending each other stuff 821 00:57:43,199 --> 00:57:45,559 too. Thankscellent. Well that's really about it, And I want to make 822 00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:50,599 sure you know you're an officially a crypto cousin. So honored, love it, 823 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,239 Welcome to the family. You know, I've changed four minute crypto four 824 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,320 minute bitcoin, but I hadn't figured out a way to change this cryptocas in 825 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,639 the bitcoin as it just doesn't have the same ring to me, you know, 826 00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,880 So right, I'm gonna have to work on that. So I appreciate 827 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,559 you taking the time to come on the show with me. I appreciate the 828 00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:09,440 opportunity. Good chatting Gary, and I guess if ida I'll see you four 829 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,719 so I'll see you and I'll be looking forward to it and bit block Moon. 830 00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:16,559 Thanks. I hope you've enjoyed today's show, and I want to give 831 00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,760 a big thank you to all my cousins out there for listening and subscribe. 832 00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:23,880 If you haven't subscribed yet, just go to cryptocusins dot com and you'll see 833 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,840 the links for all the places you can subscribe here. And you want to 834 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,239 take a second leave a great review or a four star rating even while you're 835 00:58:30,239 --> 00:58:35,119 at it, I also recommend you go to crypto podcast dot com and see 836 00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:39,039 all my other podcasts and websites for the world of bitcoin. There's a lot 837 00:58:39,159 --> 00:58:45,039 of no look at. Thanks for listening to the Cryptocusins podcast. Please share 838 00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:49,000 the show with your friends. They can subscribe by going to cryptocusins dot com 839 00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:52,119 slash subscribe. And if you want to know more about Gary, just go 840 00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:58,000 to Gary Leland dot com. Make sure and join Gary and all the cryptocusins 841 00:58:58,079 --> 00:59:04,159 every week for a new episode of the Crypto Cousins podcast. The Crypto Cousins 842 00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:08,360 podcast and the information included in the podcast are not intended as investment advice. 843 00:59:08,719 --> 00:59:14,039 Investing in any cryptocurrency is risky and you should never invest more than you can 844 00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:19,480 afford to lose. Always seek professional advice before investing in any cryptocurrency. Please 845 00:59:19,559 --> 00:59:23,760 understand you are using any and all information from the crypto cousins at your own risk.