1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:06,559 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:33,880 in the UK and around the world. Welcome to the Paranormal Pendel Podcast and 3 00:00:34,039 --> 00:00:37,280 coming to you from the heart of Pendel, which country in the northwest of 4 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,240 England. My name is Craig Bryant, author, the investigator and collector of 5 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:47,920 stories. Joined me as we take a journey into the paranormal, UFO sightings, 6 00:00:48,320 --> 00:01:02,000 cryptozoology and big casts. This is the Paranormal Pendel Podcast. Welcome to 7 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,359 episode thirty eight half Paranormal Pandel, Broadcasting to the Paranormal UK Radio Network at 8 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:14,159 Peer UK radio dot com. So episode thirty eight. My guest on this 9 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,920 episode is a returning guest. It's Philip Mantle, the big wig behind Flying 10 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,120 Dispress. If you don't mind me saying Philip and all around UFO expert. 11 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:29,400 Well, thank you, Craig, and I to speak to going. I 12 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:33,640 wouldn't call myself for an expert. That's for a big wig. Well, 13 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:37,879 I don't know. There's only meeting, does it? So you can call 14 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,879 me what you like, mate, you know, but thank you, No, 15 00:01:41,079 --> 00:01:45,000 you're welcome it, I mean, it's it's certainly been a very a 16 00:01:45,079 --> 00:01:49,239 very successful enterprise for you over the years, hasn't it? It tells. 17 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,879 I mean, it depends on how you measure your success. I measured it, 18 00:01:53,040 --> 00:02:01,519 not necessarily in financial terms, but in the feedback I've received about most 19 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,840 of the books that I've managed to publish in one form or another. And 20 00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:09,360 of course a lot of people might not be aware of us. But we've 21 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:15,960 also expanded, so we also have Flying Dispress in France. Some of our 22 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:22,319 books and others get published in French. And we have Flying Dispress Latin America, 23 00:02:22,479 --> 00:02:25,759 so again some of them get published in Spanish. And we also work, 24 00:02:27,039 --> 00:02:30,159 you know, with with other independent publishers in different parts of the world. 25 00:02:30,199 --> 00:02:35,000 So you know, like I said, it just depends how you how 26 00:02:35,039 --> 00:02:38,719 your measure success. But I measure it in the feedback, and most of 27 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:42,759 it's been pretty positive good. I mean, I think most of us will 28 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,159 will sort of admit that we don't do this sort of thing for the financial 29 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:52,520 reward. Is it is more for the sort of enjoyments of finding out about 30 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,560 the subjects that were passionate about. I mean absolutely, I mean there is 31 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,439 a financial aspect to it, because it costs money to get the books ready 32 00:03:00,479 --> 00:03:06,199 and out there. Plus, I want to give the authors a return for 33 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,439 all the years of hard work that most of them are putting, you know, 34 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:14,520 doing research, when investigations, and spending their own money doing that. 35 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,199 You know, none of them's funded by by anywhere, and I'm certainly not 36 00:03:17,319 --> 00:03:22,000 funded by anybody or anything. So if I can make them you know, 37 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:24,560 a few pounds or a few dollars or a few shekels or a few rubles 38 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:30,840 whatever, then you know, I'm happy to do so. Yeah, so, 39 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:34,319 but yeah, yeah, it's so far, so good. Good. 40 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,120 Well, we I'd dropped you an email a couple of weeks ago actually about 41 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:42,759 trying to get you back home because I wanted to talk to you about the 42 00:03:42,759 --> 00:03:47,280 book that you'd core written with. Is it Irenea Scott? Yes, Dr, 43 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:53,199 I'm in a Scott yep, beyond reasonable doubt the Pascagoula alien abduction. 44 00:03:53,639 --> 00:03:59,800 But of course we've had some sad nos over the last couple of days that 45 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,960 Calvin sadly passed away. What are your recollections of Calvin? Because you were 46 00:04:04,039 --> 00:04:06,199 quite you were quite a good friends, right, you were quite? Yeah, 47 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,240 yeah, I mean I first spoke to Calvin way back in I think 48 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,159 it was twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, you know, just trying to get 49 00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:16,279 an interview with him. Yeah, And it went from there, and I 50 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:24,560 published two of his books that he wrote himself, and continued investigating the case. 51 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,240 You know, I think when Calvin's first stepped out of the shadows, 52 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,399 he tried to keep away from the subject as best he could. And he 53 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,519 told his full story for the first time in twenty eighteen. And we made 54 00:04:35,519 --> 00:04:40,600 an agreement then, even informal agreement. This is not a document or anything 55 00:04:40,639 --> 00:04:44,560 like that, and I said I would help him all I could to try 56 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,680 and investigate the case and find out more information and that, you know, 57 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,759 and it opened up and we have found an awful lot more than we original. 58 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,399 I mean, we started with a blank page, Craig quite literally. 59 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,519 And of course Calvin and I would speak usually every week, sometimes every fortnight 60 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:08,759 on Skype. In between times it would be exchanging emails. So we became 61 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,240 really good friends. And a lot of the time when we were chatting it 62 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,680 wasn't about what had happened to him or anyone else. It was about, 63 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,600 you know, our own life and you know, what was going on around 64 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:23,439 us, and your stories about things, you know, totally unrelated to UFOs. 65 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,519 I mean, Calvin had a tremendous sense of humor. You know, 66 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,800 he was a very honorable man. And you soon got to know if Calvin 67 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,360 didn't want to talk about something, there was no point trying to persuade him, 68 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,240 because, you know, we just if he didn't want to, it 69 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,720 wouldn't. He would tell you in his own time, you know, And 70 00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:47,279 if he said something, you know, his word was his bond. And 71 00:05:48,399 --> 00:05:53,279 I'd give you an example. You know, Calvin was diagnosed a while back 72 00:05:53,279 --> 00:06:00,879 now with terminal kidney cancer, and we all knew that. And sometime further 73 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,680 down the line, Calvin's mom was admitted into a nursing home and eventually she 74 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,240 was so polish couldn't even recognize him. Yeah, but every Friday night, 75 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:17,040 Calvin would get his guitar, go to the nursing home and sing songs for 76 00:06:17,439 --> 00:06:23,839 the residents, even though he was terminally ill himself. And that's the kind 77 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,079 of man he was. And he used to say, Philip, I don't 78 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,600 care if if people don't believe me, you know, I really don't. 79 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:32,879 I know I'm telling the truth. This isn't however, to call me a 80 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:38,399 liar, that's that's a different matter, you know. And you know, 81 00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:43,120 he just had a tremendous sense of human He was a very humble man, 82 00:06:43,639 --> 00:06:47,560 but worried down to earth. He believed in God. I'm not a religious 83 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,040 person, but he just said to me, I said, Philip, you 84 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:56,279 look at the trees and the birds and the river and the fish, and 85 00:06:56,319 --> 00:07:00,600 this is what more evidence do you need that God exists? You know, 86 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,040 a very simple way, but that that that's the way he was. And 87 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,639 and we're a lot of laughs together, you know, a lot of fun. 88 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:11,759 And he used to have this saying, he said, we all have 89 00:07:11,879 --> 00:07:16,439 our own expiration date. Yeah, and he knew his was coming. Now 90 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:19,240 we all knew it was coming. It was just it was just sad when 91 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,439 it did. I mean, we we're hoping that he'd make it to the 92 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:28,079 fiftieth anniversary, which is this October. Unfortunately it hasn't, but the town 93 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,879 of Pasco google And is still having a celebration, So that will that will 94 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,600 go ahead on October the twentieth, and it will be there in spirits. 95 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:41,560 If not if if if nothing else, and was he was he still a 96 00:07:41,639 --> 00:07:46,399 king fisherman because obviously the you know, the crux of The story is that 97 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:54,160 he was out fishing with a gentleman called Charles Hickson. Yeah, on the 98 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:58,879 was it the Mississippi? It was. It was on the Pascagoula River right 99 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:03,279 okay, which which feeds into the Mississippi. I mean he was fishing, 100 00:08:03,319 --> 00:08:05,040 mad. I mean, fishing wasn't a hobbit. It was a way of 101 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,199 life. I asked Phil it because I'm a bit of a keen fisherman myself, 102 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,879 although I don't do as much now as I used to, but there's 103 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,360 still that that draw. Oh. Absolutely. I mean he lived right by 104 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:20,519 the river, the house he lived on, and that's why he used to 105 00:08:20,519 --> 00:08:24,279 get flooded so often. And he had a house boat on the river which 106 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:30,160 he was fixing up. He had a small boat as well. And what 107 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,200 I mean again, this is a kind of guy who was a cat. 108 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,879 Calvin would catch all kinds of stuff, not just fish, but shrimp, 109 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,759 you know whatever. Yeah, And he had a place by his house and 110 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:43,320 he would just store it in there because he catched too much for his own 111 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,720 gumes. And he would leave it there and you could come and help yourself. 112 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,480 No, you didn't have to pay for it, you know. It 113 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,159 was it was there and freeze. So the neighbors new and it's a bit 114 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,960 like you know, some type of farma will leave eggs and you're gonna help 115 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,000 yourself, you know. And and he did that. But he loved his 116 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:07,039 fishing. And this shows you his sense of humor. A couple of years 117 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,759 back, the town was celebrating the the you know that the account happening in 118 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,480 October, and they had a festival and people will give him prizes, you 119 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:18,639 know, as as as a raffle will give you a free prize, raffle 120 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:22,679 off. So Calvin's raffle prize was, and this is tongue in cheek, 121 00:09:22,759 --> 00:09:26,919 with a big smile on his face, was you can come fishing on the 122 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:31,120 river with me for a night, you know, obviously arking back to the 123 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,879 night when the close encounter happened. Many people took him up on it. 124 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:43,879 So that was his sense of humans, see and I mean, yeah, 125 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:50,679 I mean he sounds like a really fabulous, genuine guy. You know he 126 00:09:50,919 --> 00:09:52,559 was. I mean, you know, he like myself, he didn't have 127 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:58,039 a great formal education, but he certainly wasn't you know, stupid or anything 128 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,279 like that. I mean the guy used calculus. Yeah, and I think 129 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,519 at one point he used to show the students in the local high school or 130 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:09,440 whatever how to how to use it. He used it. He had his 131 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,480 own construction company at one time, so you know it. Yeah, I 132 00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:16,559 mean, you know, it was a little just it was the kind of 133 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,279 guy you'd like to live next daughter. You know, he's like everybody's favorite 134 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:26,240 uncle. So yeah, so let's let's sort of just go back then too. 135 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,480 I mean you mentioned that he first his first book came out in twenty 136 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,200 eighteen. Yeah, so that was obviously, you know, they've been quite 137 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,679 a while between the book coming out and when the incident happened back in nineteen 138 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,879 seventy three. I was reading some of the information that you'd sent and the 139 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:52,399 other gentleman that was within Charles Hickson, who was I mean, he was 140 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,919 aged forty two in nineteen seventy three. Calvin was eighteen, So I mean 141 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,639 I didn't realize that Calvin was so young, so obvious. So this must 142 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:07,519 have been a really sort of a traumatic experience for both of them, but 143 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:15,480 more so for basically a young lad of eighteen, you know, absolutely, 144 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:20,000 I mean that their families have grown up side by side, So Charlie and 145 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:24,480 Calvin's dad knew each other. Calvin was friends with Charlie's son Eddie. What 146 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,159 about the same age. And of course the one thing they all loved to 147 00:11:28,279 --> 00:11:31,879 share it was it was a lot of fishing. But you see, Charlie 148 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,639 had been in the army and he had fought in the Korean War, and 149 00:11:37,639 --> 00:11:45,200 it was in several large battles during that conflict, So you know, we 150 00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:50,320 talked about trauma. He had experience in that already was Calvin was eighteen, 151 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:56,399 almost nineteen. Silly young fellow. I don't think it'd ever been really outside 152 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,240 of Mississippi at that point. You know, he was still young. It 153 00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:07,639 just got engaged and that's why he went to work in Pascagry. He actually 154 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:13,440 lived a couple of hundred miles away and got engaged to Wayne at and but 155 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:18,720 he was working like two and three jobs since she never saw him. So 156 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,120 his father said to him, why don't you in Charlie. He works in 157 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:24,720 the shipyard as a foreman. He might be able to get a job. 158 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,039 So every wrong him. Charlie got him a job. The idea was he 159 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,960 would stay at Charlie's Monday to Friday, paying some bedboard and go on on 160 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,360 a weekend, and so he bought a new car. The wedding was planned 161 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,200 that day. October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three, was Calvin's first day 162 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,200 at work in the shipyard, right, okay, And he said this several 163 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,159 times. It says, I got hired, fired, and abducted in the 164 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,720 same day, you know. And again that's his sense of human And of 165 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,879 course he didn't have any great life. I mean, who who did it 166 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,440 at eighteen? I mean I was I think back to when I was eighteen 167 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,759 o one was daft as a Russian and as green as anything, you know, 168 00:13:09,399 --> 00:13:13,600 And it did actually traumatize him for the rest of his life, Craig, 169 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,399 you know, and when he wrote the book, that helped somewhat because 170 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,320 he could now tell his story in full. That was the first time Wayne 171 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,440 it was still his wife that he even told her what everything that had happened. 172 00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:31,240 So it was a therapy for him. Really, then writes in the 173 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,039 book to think absolutely. I mean, he loved his fishing, don't get 174 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:39,120 me wrong, but but you know, when the book came out, people 175 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,039 treated him with respect and people wanted to know his story where it's back in 176 00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:48,000 nineteen seventy three certainly, and he was media were all laughing at them, 177 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,559 and he couldn't get away from it fast enough. So sorry, do you 178 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,320 think that's that's why? Then there was such a gap between when it happened 179 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,039 and obviously I mean, I'm trying to some maths in the head here, 180 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,440 but we're talking twenty seven plus eighteen thirty five years. Well, what happened 181 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:13,120 was when this incident happened. Charlie and Calvin originally they having a discussion, 182 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:18,279 you know, and they said, we're not going to tell anything. Nobody 183 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:22,320 will believes anyway. I think we're knots. Plus Calvin was worried that his 184 00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:26,919 future father in law wouldn't let him marry Waynette because it's a different time, 185 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,480 this is nineteen seventy three. Yeah. However, as they're driving home and 186 00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:35,679 Calvin's driving, Charlie had a change of heart. He may said, we've 187 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:39,759 got to tell somebody. He said, what happened? If these creatures come 188 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:43,840 back, do this to somebody else, what if it's an invasion? So 189 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:50,679 Calvin agreed on one condition, he would say that up until the creatures came 190 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:56,120 out of his craft. That's when he passed out. He wouldn't remember anything 191 00:14:56,159 --> 00:15:01,000 else, when in fact he did, he remembered everything. And that way, 192 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,879 Charlie also went on boardy saying he would he would handle the media, 193 00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:09,159 he would handle any of the questions, you know, and Calvin would say, 194 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,799 yea, and I saw the UFO and I saw these beings, but 195 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:16,279 that's all I remember, you know, And that was the only condition, 196 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,360 So, you know, Charlie said, okay. And Charlie realized this was 197 00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:22,879 a way of protecting his young friend as well, because you know, Calvin 198 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,000 was was, you know, going around the twist. It was so frightening 199 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,440 and of course for those that don't know what happened, there fishing on the 200 00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:37,759 river and this blue light appears from behind them and it goes out across the 201 00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:41,519 water. They think it's the police because they passed the no entry sign on 202 00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:45,200 the way in, and Calvin thinks he's going to spend a night in jail. 203 00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:48,600 Of course, they turn around and it's not the police. It's like 204 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:54,399 a huge rugby ball shaped thing descending. It stops a couple of feet above 205 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,720 the ground. It's got two lights on one end, and this opening appears 206 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:03,120 and then three humanoid figures float out of this thing, and again they didn't 207 00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:07,039 touch the ground. They went two got hold of Charlie, one got old 208 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:14,919 of Calvin. Both guys were paralyzed. They described these creatures as humanoid but 209 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,840 with no neck the head and pointed protumsons coming out of the side and one 210 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:26,039 out of the front. The long arms with mitten type or crab like appendages. 211 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,080 Their legs were stuck together and never moved, and they took them towards 212 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:34,720 which thing as they went through it, Charlie went to the right, Calvin 213 00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:40,679 went to the left. That you know, had this thing come down from 214 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:47,080 the ceiling and go around them as if scanning of some description. Calvin also 215 00:16:47,399 --> 00:16:53,480 also was interacted with a female on this thing that looked almost human, and 216 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,720 that they removed his lower clothing. They stuck something in his foot and it 217 00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:03,240 hurts, and as they dressed him again, Calvin managed to get old of 218 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:08,599 this female creature and bang ahead against the wall, but then the great humanoid 219 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,559 figure got hold of him. It was paralyzed again, and then Let's singer 220 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,119 remembers his back out on the pier with Charlie shouting at him and he okay, 221 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,599 young, okay, son, okay. He staggers up, turns around, 222 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,920 and this thing takes off and zips. Something's gone in a flash, 223 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:29,559 you know, And they end up a payphone and they formed Keslar Air Force 224 00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:33,240 Base, which is nearby, and they say, we're not in the UFO 225 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:38,400 business anymore. Bring the local authorities. So they do, and it's Jackson 226 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:44,039 County Sheriff's department. They send a car out and the first thing they do 227 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,440 is give them a sobriety test and they passed that. So they escort them 228 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:56,599 into town. The interview both gentlemen in the Sheriff's office independently, and quite 229 00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:00,680 frankly, they didn't leave them. They thought of uptor something, these two 230 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,200 guys, you know what I mean. So they put them in a room 231 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,880 together and there's a table next to them, and they left them alone that 232 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,759 The deputy comes back a few minutes later, Oh was the day's take something 233 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:14,920 out of it. They have no idea what he's doing. Unbeknownst to them, 234 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,920 there was a tape recorder plane recording their conversation. And the police thought, 235 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,279 well, we'll get them now. You know, they'll be laughing and 236 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,960 joking, and of course they're not. You know, Calvin's crawling up the 237 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,880 wall literally and you know, Charlie is shaking his head. Did you see 238 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,799 that thing open? You know, how did that happen? And I always 239 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:37,240 told you there were people on other planets and all this lot. So the 240 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,680 police then believe them, and the police said, we won't tell anybody, 241 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,200 you know, you know, go home. So they go home and they 242 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,480 think that's it. They go to work the next morning and the boss summons 243 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,240 them straight away and they said, what the hell have you two being up 244 00:18:53,279 --> 00:19:00,119 to? The Sorry, somehow got out and they had no idea. Well, 245 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,559 letters sent to the hospital given, they're all clear that. They were 246 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:10,559 then driven to Keslan Air Force Base ironically to be checked for radiation, which 247 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,519 that was negative. But the people in charge at Keisler said, well, 248 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,119 why are you here, Why don't you tell us what happened? And we 249 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,359 have a transcript of the interview at Keiseltt Air Force Base. They had a 250 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:27,240 stenographer and we have that transcript. We also have the so called secret tape 251 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:33,200 done at the Sheriff's office made available and you know that's unprecedented to have such 252 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:41,440 evidence, you know, straight away almost and Calvin eventually went home. He 253 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:48,640 ended up in a hospital. He did manage to get married and Charlie took 254 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,720 up the torch, so to speak. He was the one that would talk 255 00:19:51,799 --> 00:19:55,880 to the media. He went on a couple of talk shows. He would 256 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,519 down the years, he would he would appear at UFO conferences. He even 257 00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:03,119 go speak get global church all if you asked him, you know. And 258 00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:07,440 Calvin wanted him to stop. He wanted it to go away. He got 259 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,279 his life planned, Craig, you know, wife, house, job, 260 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:18,119 children, grandchildren, retire, a simple life. That's all he wanted. 261 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,960 But that that incident that night changed it forever. And I've given this this 262 00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:30,160 is an idea that there may be people listening who may remember the TV series 263 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,599 The Hook in the nineteen eighties. The Hooks alter ego was doctor David Banner, 264 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,839 and of course they were chased by a journalist and every time the journalists 265 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,480 caught sed up, they would move on to the next town. Well that's 266 00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:49,279 exactly what Calvin did in real life with wife and children. As soon as 267 00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:53,799 a journalist caught with him, he would move. And he even used a 268 00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:59,480 false name at one point, and he got a job and the boss called 269 00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:00,720 him into the office one day and said, you fired it, and they 270 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,519 said, well, why I haven't done anything wrong. He said, well, 271 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:10,920 your name and your social Security number don't match, you know, And 272 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,640 and that's how he lived his life. Was it was traumatic rightfully day he 273 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,759 died. That trauma was lifted somewhat when he finally told his story in full 274 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:23,319 in twenty eighteen. And he said to me, you know, he wished 275 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:27,519 he had done it earlier, but say, you know, none of us 276 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:32,880 can go back in time calm with Craig. So so what prompted him to 277 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,279 to sort of open up down, you know, sort of? Well, 278 00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:41,680 what what had happened was I got that Charlie Hickson wrote a book in nineteen 279 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:48,559 eighty three with a chap called William Mendez god Ufo Contacts at Pascagoula, and 280 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,359 I obtained the rights to republish it. Now Charlie had died in twenty eleven. 281 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,319 Well, I had no idea what happened to Calvin. I couldn't find 282 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,039 any of obituary about him, you know, or anything like that, so 283 00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:07,680 I assumed he was still alive, but I didn't know. So I thought, 284 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:14,200 if I can find him, perhaps I could get an interview and just 285 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,000 put that in the back of this reprint, you know, just to bring 286 00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,119 things up to date a little bit, and someone set out trying to find 287 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,359 him. It took me a few months and a podcast about the name of 288 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,519 Martin Willis. I'll be forever grateful to him, he said. I spoke 289 00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,039 to him a few years back from him, and he put me in touch 290 00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:37,359 with him. I asked, I wrung him up and I spoke to him, 291 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:44,079 and he was very polite, didn't tell me an awful lot. But 292 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,160 what I didn't know Craig is just a short while before I found him, 293 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:55,559 he'd been to a funeral of a friend and as they're coming out of the 294 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,839 service, I think it might have been a book of condolence, and Calvin 295 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,119 signed it and those coming behind him saw his name and they started doing the 296 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,119 old wink wink, nudge nudge, you know. The alien guy. Calvin 297 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,880 thought I was very disrespectable for his dead friend. But his wife went out 298 00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:15,519 and said, well, I'm sick of this. Why the hell don't you 299 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:18,319 write a book and tell your story in full? So he kind of said, 300 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,640 yes, dear, yes, darling, you know, to placate the 301 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,599 wife didn't really have any intention of doing that. So, you know, 302 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,880 I think it was on our second conversation he told me that story and I 303 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:37,400 said, well, i'll send you a sample contract then, so I did, 304 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,160 and much to my surprise, he said, okay. He sent me 305 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,720 what he'd started to write, and it wasn't an attempt to write a book. 306 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,720 It was just some notes he'd written, and he said, I'll do 307 00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:52,880 it on one condition. And I said, what's that. He says, 308 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,680 you don't change anything. It said because I want people to know not just 309 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,960 what happened to me and Charlie, but also I want them to know me 310 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,119 kind of guy I am, you know, to US's fine. So and 311 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,799 then we we set off and we worked a framework out for the for the 312 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:17,920 for the book, and we would do literally one chapter at a time. 313 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,400 Calvin would write, some people think I was the ghostwriter, and I wasn't. 314 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:26,119 I was more like a you know, an editor if anything. And 315 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,000 Calvin had right, you know, a piece, and I'd say, right, 316 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,599 tell me a bit more about that. I don't quite understand what you're 317 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,839 saying here, and you know, what about this? And he'd come back, 318 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,839 and that would go backward and forwards between us until we were both happy 319 00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:42,960 with it, you know, and we did that with every piece of the 320 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,799 book. And I said to Calvin, you know, have you got any 321 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,920 photographs, documents, anything like that, and he says no, he said, 322 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,039 I lost it all in Hurricane Katrina. You know, the house was 323 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,599 under ten feet of water. So my other job then politely pestering the living 324 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:07,640 daylights at people looking for photographs and documents and other and other items. So 325 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,519 we literally, in every respect, started with a blank page. You know, 326 00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:17,920 I got Charles Hickson's story because I call his book, and you know, 327 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,440 I was republishing it, and Charlie Is, you know, Calvin is 328 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,920 mentioned in that, but they still were sticking with the story that he passed 329 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,119 out when these creatures approached them, which wasn't true, you know. So 330 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,880 he then explained why, you know, why they come to that decision and 331 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,720 why it wasn't true, and this is the story, and there was more 332 00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:41,640 to it than we could ever imagine, you know, and off we went. 333 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,839 And so that's how it all came about. You know, I'm forever 334 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,000 grateful to Martin Willis, and thankfully, you know, Calvin's wife when it 335 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,240 got him in a headlock and say, since she could to write this book. 336 00:25:56,279 --> 00:26:00,240 You know, that's it. I've had enough and and we did. 337 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:03,640 Yeah, the power of the wife is quite quite a force to behold when 338 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:11,720 it will be absolutely, just before we talked about some of the evidence that 339 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:17,759 you found, because there was some photos, wasn't that showed some punctual ones 340 00:26:17,839 --> 00:26:25,519 to both the guys Just going back to that date in nineteen seventy three, 341 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,240 there had been other sightings, hadn't there? Oh? Absolutely? I mean 342 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,359 straight objects in the sky. Do you want to sort of go through them 343 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,960 if you can? Yeah, Well, I've got a book coming out on 344 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:44,559 October the first, and it's by Kevin Rangle. Kevin's a prolific author and 345 00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,960 investigates it. It's called nineteen seventy three, The Year of UFO Sightings, 346 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:56,200 Landings and Abductions. And there's an old there's an old sort of handmade publication, 347 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,480 but I think it's called what I think the Chaps Walter Webb and it's 348 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,759 and it says nineteen seventy three the Year of the Humanoids. So you know, 349 00:27:06,079 --> 00:27:11,599 there was a huge wave of sightings right across the United States in nineteen 350 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,519 seventy three, and it looks on the as we look back on it now 351 00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:22,480 that the pinnacle of those sightings was October, the same time as Calvin and 352 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:29,839 Charlie's incident on October eleventh. So what you know, we found lots and 353 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,400 lots of other information about things that happened that year, and it was exceptional. 354 00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:37,359 We used to call it a flap, you know, but it happened 355 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:44,519 across the United States that year. It's a nominal amount of what we call 356 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,200 high strangeness. Yeah, it's it's it's not something we see a lot nowadays. 357 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,160 And that's another question. So yes, the answer is yes, there 358 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:59,319 were a lot of other things happening, and but strangely enough, nothing that 359 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,559 would be like this event. I mean, the creatures they encountered. I 360 00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:11,480 cannot find anything anywhere else in the world at any time that looked just like 361 00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:17,559 them. They are unique to Charlie and Calvin. And when it comes to 362 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,480 abduction accounts, you know, we know Betty and Barney Hill no witnesses that 363 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:30,039 they went under hypnosis. I think four years after the event. There's there's 364 00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:33,960 nothing else. There's no all the evidence. Same with with Travis Walton, 365 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,880 although his colleagues were there when they saw the UFO, but there's no there's 366 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,799 no backup, there's no other stuff. But here we have with Charlie and 367 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,680 Kelvin that you know, within within no time of the incident happening, the 368 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,240 shap sat being interviewed in the Sheriff's department, you know, the next day 369 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:57,119 that Keisl Air Force Base, and then as we subsequently discovered there and were 370 00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:03,400 all the witnesses and a lot more than we ever imagined, and other as 371 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,680 you mentioned, documentary evidence as well. There were two of the fishermen. 372 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,200 Weren't there a couple of nights before on the opposite No, no, the 373 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,279 very same night. Sorry that my apologies, but they were on the opposite 374 00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:21,880 side of the river fishing. They weren't fishing the world fishing. What happened 375 00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:26,640 was when Calvin's book came out, a local journalist came and interview with him, 376 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,880 and she wrote a piece for the newspaper. But she also filmed the 377 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,119 interview, and you know, they went on signs sped like a little light 378 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,599 minute documentary, you know. And at some point it was put on YouTube 379 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,880 and I'm reading through the comments Underneathy and there was a comment and it said 380 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:49,079 my mother and father were on the opposite side of the river that night, 381 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:56,759 they too saw the U went phone. Okay right, And luckily the person 382 00:29:56,839 --> 00:30:03,000 writing this used their real name, so I managed to find the person on 383 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,799 Facebook, and it was a young lady and I sent her a message explained 384 00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,279 who I was, and I said, did any chance we could speak to 385 00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:14,839 your mom and dad please? I didn't even know they were still alive, 386 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,119 you know. And she gone back to yeah, and to give me their 387 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:23,240 contact details. And they were mister Jerry Blair and missus Maria Blair, and 388 00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:27,319 they were on the opposite side of the river that night. Mister Blair was 389 00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:33,000 going out in a boat that tap serviced the oil rigs out in the gulf, 390 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,519 so we were going to be gone for a few days and his boss 391 00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:40,000 was late, so the you know, they sat on this pier by in 392 00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:42,160 the car. He's not in the best of him, who was his size, 393 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,960 having a sleep, and Maria sees these blue lights on the opposite side 394 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,599 of the river. She said they were maneuver in a very peculiar fashion, 395 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,920 as if they were at a looking for somebody or they were lost, didn't 396 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,119 know where they were going. Jerry saw them as well, and then they 397 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,000 decided, for whatever reason, to go up to the boat and just put 398 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,640 his belongings on it. Anyway, you know, they're still waiting for the 399 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,200 boss to come. And as I'm walking down this little pier that it is 400 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:17,279 a splash in the water next to them. And Maria said, I looked 401 00:31:17,319 --> 00:31:22,240 down as a grain man, a grain that's her words, a grain man. 402 00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:25,400 And she said, went back under the water and never come up again. 403 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,480 And they got to the boat. She threw the stuff on it. 404 00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:32,640 Now this is where he got interested, she said. At this time, 405 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,920 it was a round about nine o'clock ish, and then she run back down 406 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,240 the pier because she got to go past this place terrified. And when she 407 00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:48,799 got back to the car it was twelve o'clock. It's no idea how that 408 00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:52,920 happened. And she was very emotional about this, and I'm talking to her 409 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,599 on the phone and she says, you know, Philip, she says, 410 00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:01,799 I often think maybe some thing like what happened to Charlie and Calvin happened to 411 00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:05,680 me. And Jerry, I said, why did you think that? She's 412 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:12,119 I've got these vague recollections almost looking at something out of my peripheral vision. 413 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,759 You can't quite make it out in or. I mean, so I left 414 00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:17,680 it at that. We spoke to Jerry, you know, he didn't he 415 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,920 didn't, but he admitted he saw the blue lights and things. He didn't 416 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,759 want to talk too much about it. A year later, there was a 417 00:32:25,839 --> 00:32:32,119 memorial unveiled, not a memorial, a historical mark and unveiled in Pasacola at 418 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,039 the location by the mayor, and Jerry and Maria turned up. They met 419 00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:42,160 Calvin for the first time. They were filmed for the local TV news. 420 00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:45,359 So you know, she's standing on the page, she's saying the blue lights 421 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:52,400 and everything. A while later, mister Blair texts ill, I mean seriously 422 00:32:52,440 --> 00:33:00,359 ill, And he says to his wife, Maria, we would also doctor 423 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,160 that night, and he told her the story of what happened, and she 424 00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:08,400 was as mad as hell. No how poorly it was, she was as 425 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:13,000 mad as hell, and she said, you better start talking, so he 426 00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:16,680 did. He ends up in the hospital. He's having an operation and weren't 427 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,599 sure if it was going to survive or not, and he insisted on speaking 428 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,160 to me from the hospital, and I spoke to him and he told me 429 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:31,759 what had happened. Maria even got a mobile phone and filmed him and he's 430 00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:36,720 literally sat sat on his hospital dead with the stickers still on him from the 431 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,119 ECG he'd had. It's only a few minutes long, you know. And 432 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:46,559 he and he survived that the operation, and he went on to give us 433 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:52,039 some more information, and right to the day he died, Greg he was 434 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,759 still trying to tell her more. She was almost like a deathbed confession. 435 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:04,799 Yeah. So eventually Maria mentions not as she mentions the possibility of hypnosis, 436 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,280 and I said, no, you know, you're still upset about your husband 437 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,280 dying, Maria, you know she's okay, And then for whatever reason, 438 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:19,559 she suggested it again. You know. The bulk of the interviews with Maria 439 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:23,320 was done by my colleague, doctor Arena Scott, who lives in Ohio, 440 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:29,039 and so I said, look, I'll look into it, but you have 441 00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:31,480 to understand, I lived thousands of miles away. I don't know if I'll 442 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:37,960 be able to arrange it. So I found a few hypnotherapists in the sort 443 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:44,840 of general area around Pascagoula, and I emailed a couple and eventually one young 444 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,840 lady said, yeah, I can do that, and she was even prepared 445 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,599 to come out to a location as long as it wasn't too far away. 446 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:59,639 So what we did last year we arranged for missus Maria Blair to go to 447 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:06,480 Calvin in Parker's house on a certain days and undergo regressive hypnosis. The reason 448 00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:09,679 we went to Calvin's because she knew him. Calvin had been under hypnosis before, 449 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,320 so he knew the score. You know, we know what to expect. 450 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,480 What we didn't tell the hypnos therapist was anything about the subject matter. 451 00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:21,960 We just told her the date, the time, in the location. So 452 00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:27,679 she put Maria under hypnosis. We also had it filmed by a professional cameraman 453 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:36,079 and she started talking very emotional, and there was long periods where she didn't 454 00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:38,000 speak. You know, you can just see her face moving and she might 455 00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:44,239 make out a little whimper. But in essence, she said that these creatures 456 00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:50,360 removed some of her eggs. They were interested in our DNA, and they 457 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:55,840 wanted to make children that could walk amongst us and looked just like us. 458 00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:01,119 Wow, And that was the essence of her store. You know, I've 459 00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:05,039 sent this to other people. You should have seen that look on the on 460 00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:09,039 the hypnotherapist face when when they started to emerge, because she knew nothing about 461 00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:13,840 what we're going to talk about. I can imagine. So a few weeks 462 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,679 later we did the same with Calvin. You know, same hypnotherapist, same 463 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,119 location, same cameraman. Calvin just told us what he had already told us. 464 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,480 He didn't go back and relive the episode. He just told us he 465 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:29,920 you know, people said, oh, he's not under hypnosis. What it 466 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,960 was under hypnosis. The hypnotherapist is sat right next to him, you know, 467 00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:38,639 and but he'd been under hypnosis before, so he knew what to expect. 468 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:45,079 And there's different techniques they use. What is interesting, Craig I gave 469 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,760 the hypnotherapist this time a couple of questions to ask Calvin, and one was 470 00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:57,400 asked Calvin, before anything happens, he's stood on the pier, fishing rod 471 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,280 in hand, looking out across the water. Just ask him to describe what 472 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,679 he sees. That's all I want to know. And he says, well, 473 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:10,000 there's there's the bridge going across the river. You know, there's Highway 474 00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:15,119 ninety bridge ro there's traffic on it. There's a boat going out. He 475 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:19,880 even could tell me that, you know the boat company, the name on 476 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,039 it. They're right at the end. Just a little throwaway thing, Craig, 477 00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:29,320 He says, oh, there's two figures on the opposite side of the 478 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,559 river. Now, I asked the question in our new book, beyond reasonable 479 00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:39,679 doubt were those two figures Mary and Jerry Blair? And it was too far 480 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:44,400 they were too far of it. Could it be someone else? Don't know? 481 00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:47,599 I don't know. So again we had that film. We have it 482 00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:52,199 for posterlity, thankfully because sadly, you know, Calvin's no longer with us. 483 00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:58,760 And make of it what you will. What we've done in the new 484 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:05,079 book, Craig, as we've transcribed these hypnotics sessions, and you know every 485 00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:07,000 word it is in that. The only bit we haven't put in is whether 486 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,440 hypnotherapist is putting them under hypnotesis, you know, because it's strengthfully boring. 487 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,039 But every word they say, there's nothing redacted. It's all there and all 488 00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:22,000 the use of it. Notice is a contentious issue. I can fully accept 489 00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:24,519 that, but it's there. If we hadn't put it in, some of 490 00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:30,960 the accusers of you know, omitting things. So it's in there and you've 491 00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:35,079 decide for yourself. Yeah, I mean I suppose there's some people. You're 492 00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:37,599 damned if if you're doing your damned if you don't absolutely yeah, with with 493 00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:43,239 with something like that, one of these documents that you uncovered them from two 494 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,440 days later with photographs of the puncture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 495 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,519 mean this is this shows your a what you can do as a researcher today 496 00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:57,239 with the technology we have, and if you're nice to people and you cooperate, 497 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,199 you know, things can happen. So, like I said, Calvin 498 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,840 had no visual material at all, even even have pictures of his kids when 499 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,559 they were little, I mean, they were gone. So I sent out 500 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:13,599 a statement to anybody and everybody I could think of, bearing in mind, 501 00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:17,360 you know, after the event happened, Doctor j al and Heideck was there 502 00:39:19,159 --> 00:39:23,559 along with Dr James Harder and had a press conference before he left, saying, 503 00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:28,159 these guys are you know, are on the level. So Heinek had 504 00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:34,199 formed a center for UFO studies. So I contacted them and I just explained 505 00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:36,880 what I was doing. If you got anything, they said, yeah, 506 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,199 of course, Philip, We've got a file on it. So they send 507 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:43,840 me a PDF file, most of which his newspaper cuttings. If I'm honest, 508 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:50,199 but in the middle of this file it's very clear. It's a one 509 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,000 page document that is typewritten, so it's done on an old typewriter, and 510 00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:00,639 the days is typed over. So it was originally put optop of the twelfth 511 00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:05,280 and the retyped over it October thirteenth, and it's you know, it's it 512 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,599 says puncher Ones. And it gives a description of Charlie and Calvin stripping down 513 00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:16,920 to their underwear and that being given the once over. You know, Alex 514 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:23,320 says that Charlie had punch of wounds in his forearm, burned in mind. 515 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,639 When when Charlie says, when these creatures got old of him, they pricked 516 00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:30,360 him in his arm and he felt it if he thought it was some kind 517 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:36,559 of you know, knockout drop. Calvin said, they said in this this 518 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:44,079 document had punch you wounds under his foot and again going back to what Kelvin 519 00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:45,920 said, he said, they removed his clothing, his lower clothes and his 520 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,360 shoes and socks and stuck something in his foot and it hurts. And it 521 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,320 then went on to mention that there were photographs, but there were nowhere in 522 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,280 this fire were they any photographs. But this document I thought was fascinating. 523 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,960 So we'll lift it at that again. I can't remember how how long after, 524 00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:09,000 but a good long time afterwards. The same gentleman who sent me this 525 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,320 pedia file, he emailed me out of the blue and I said, Philip, 526 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,559 I've been rooting through some files today, not looking for anything on this, 527 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,480 but he said, I assume you've got these, but I thought I 528 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:28,000 would send them, you know. Nonetheless, and of course it was the 529 00:41:28,039 --> 00:41:34,360 photographs to go with that particular document, and it shows these minor injuries on 530 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,119 Charles Dixon's inner forearm and on Calvin Parker's foot. And the reason we can't 531 00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:45,079 see the face of the people, we know who's who's who, because their 532 00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:50,480 names were written on the back of the photographs. And of course the guy 533 00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:57,039 scammed back in front for me, and what's the only minor injuries, Craig. 534 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:04,719 When you put the the verbal testimony, then the document, and then 535 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,719 the photographs together, I think it makes a powerful piece of evidence that there 536 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:15,960 was a physical component to their encounter that night. Yeah. Absolutely, And 537 00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:21,599 again that's all in the new book. The photographs actually published in the book 538 00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:25,519 for the very first time. Nobody had seen them anywhere, I mean literally 539 00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:30,199 nowhere. I mean my mouth just dropped up when I saw them. You 540 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,280 know, on their own, they don't look anything fantastic, you know, 541 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,800 but when you put it, put all three pieces of evidence together, I 542 00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:45,400 think it's it's quite compelling. So has has the been or had there been 543 00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:54,000 any similar abductions before or since? Because you mentioned that this is the only 544 00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:01,760 time that we've had a description of extraterrestrial beings that look like this. They're 545 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:09,400 not your sort of archetypal descriptions either. What I'm not calling him extraterrestrials anyway, 546 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:14,599 I'm just calling him these Calvin called him the big ugly big ugly guys. 547 00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,159 That his nickname for them. Okay, I don't know what they were, 548 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,519 but like I said, I have I have literally looked at anything and 549 00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:25,119 everything I could lay my hands on to see if there was any description to 550 00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:30,400 these creatures that were the same, and so far, you know, drawn 551 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,320 a blank. I mean, are there are similarities in a lot of abduction 552 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:40,039 cases? Most abduction cases? Of course, I have one witness events, 553 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,760 and you know, Betting and Barney Hill were two people you could argue were 554 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:55,480 about Travis Walton. But essentially there's one person and I haven't found any other 555 00:43:55,639 --> 00:44:02,320 abduction case that has this type of evidence straight away, you know, the 556 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:09,800 Sheriff's office been secretly recorded Peacelet air Force based the next day, and I 557 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,599 know other other witnesses at the time stepped forward as well. I give you 558 00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:20,320 an I give you an indication. We've we've spoken with the police dispatcher who 559 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,400 was on duty that night. He's still alive and he was the one that 560 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,519 took Charlie's call and he's told us, he said, Philip, I must 561 00:44:28,519 --> 00:44:32,519 have taken over fifty calls that night of UFO sightings, okay, and they 562 00:44:32,519 --> 00:44:36,159 were all entered in the police logists. And when I went back to the 563 00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:44,320 publice station, there were people there in person, people plural people reporting it, 564 00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:47,480 you know. And at the time, back in nineteen seventy three, 565 00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:53,320 television interviewed the chap called Jerry Booth. You know, he'd seen something bizarre 566 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,440 that night, you know, at the same time, and then you know, 567 00:44:57,519 --> 00:45:00,920 we found other evidence as well, and we found all the people. 568 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,679 So people were claiming all these people have just stepped out of the woodworked for 569 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,599 their five minutes of fame. Well, mister and missus Blair didn't step out 570 00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:14,280 of the woodwork it was their daughter that mentioned that little comment on YouTube. 571 00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:17,440 Otherwise we would probably never have known about it, because they had no intention 572 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,679 of talking to anybody, you know. And we found other people in similar 573 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:28,239 ways. And somebody asked me how many witnesses are in the new book, 574 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,559 and I honestly didn't know. So I went through it and counted, and 575 00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:36,960 there's there's forty witnesses in that of one form or another, not all in 576 00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:42,159 pastor google. I will have met some of the surrounding areas. Others were 577 00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:46,400 a few days before, some a few days afterwards. But again myself and 578 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:52,119 Irene I think it's it's all linked. Others may disagree, so it's there 579 00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:59,239 for you to to look at and judge for yourself to decide. I think 580 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:06,800 the interesting thing just just listening to very eloquently explaining what happened and from different 581 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:15,280 different viewpoints as well. Missus Blair mentioned about wanting about these creatures wanting to 582 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:23,519 remove her her eggs in order to to breed with us. Now I find 583 00:46:23,519 --> 00:46:34,039 that interesting because Calvin obviously mentioned this female type humanoid who I mean, we 584 00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:40,239 don't know what happened. I mean he admitted didn't either. He sort of 585 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,440 pushed it and banged its head against the wall, which says something like that. 586 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,199 You have to wonder then, you know, if there was some some 587 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,559 intelligence behind that part of the encounter were by you know, perhaps he might 588 00:46:55,599 --> 00:47:01,320 have ended up, you know, not putting it to find a point on 589 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:07,840 it too bluntly, perhaps having sex with this this well there's you know, 590 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,199 there's there's there's no evidence to suggest that. I know, Calvin didn't like 591 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,719 talking about that particular point. I can imagine. Yeah, But if we 592 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,320 go to other accounts, so I mean, certainly the work of Blood Hopkins, 593 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,239 the late Bud Hopkins, and there was lots of instance, even with 594 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:30,960 Betty and Barney Hill. You know, there was a genetic component to it. 595 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000 But I know, I know some of the cases that Blood worked on, 596 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,440 similar claims were made that they were harvesting genetic material. Budd was looking 597 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:45,320 at the possibility that whatever these creatures were, wherever they come from, maybe 598 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:50,440 they've gone down some kind of genetic cold de sack, and we're looking to 599 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,199 to rectify that. Doctor David Jacobs was a colleague of Bods. He went 600 00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,920 the opposite where he thought, you know, they were making her ybrids for 601 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,159 nefarious purposes, but that was just his opinion and slight. It was different 602 00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:13,000 to pods. So there are other examples of you know, look, you 603 00:48:13,039 --> 00:48:17,480 know these beings looking at the human genetics, so that in itself is not 604 00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:23,760 unusual. However, you know, Calvin had another encounter in nineteen ninety three 605 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:30,400 that's not featured in the book, purely working on nineteen seventy three and two 606 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:35,199 others when he was a young a young man, a young kid. And 607 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:40,320 the common denominated amongst all four encounters is this female being. She's in each 608 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:45,960 of the encounters, and Calvin even said at one point it looked to him 609 00:48:46,039 --> 00:48:52,320 like she was wearing a mask, you know, and make of that what 610 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:57,039 you will, you know, I'm just pointing that out. Yeah, so 611 00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:02,880 you think perhaps he was being targeted. Well again, similarly with Charlie Hickson, 612 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,920 Charlie also had two encounters when he was a young fella. He didn't 613 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:14,920 see any female creature, he didn't see anything, and he had another UFO 614 00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:20,320 sighting later on, not an encounter which was witnessed by his family as well. 615 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:25,159 We were all together in the car. But Calvin Tony Charlie turned into 616 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,639 what we call a contact. He he claimed to have got a few messages 617 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:35,480 from these begins and something, something spectacular was going to happen on Earth and 618 00:49:35,519 --> 00:49:37,440 he was going to be part of it. Of course that that never took 619 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:45,599 place, But that never happened. But he see how how both gentlemen you 620 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,960 dealt with the encounter differently. Calvin didn't want anything to do with it. 621 00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:52,320 Charlie thought something special was going to happen. Hence, you know, he 622 00:49:52,400 --> 00:50:00,159 was quite open to talking about it. Yeah, well it's I'm not quite 623 00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:04,480 sure. I'm going to sleep very well tonight, to be honest with you. 624 00:50:04,599 --> 00:50:07,519 I mean, you know, there are there are a lot of Yeah, 625 00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:14,760 I mean you've you've mentioned a number of other abbut tea cases during during 626 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:20,960 our chat today, but I think probably the Pasca Girler incident is I would 627 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,480 say probably the most famous, would you agree. Well, what is interesting, 628 00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:28,800 Craig, is when when we started to look into this basically, mind, 629 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:34,599 when I was looking for for for Calvin, I contracted some UFO researchs 630 00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:38,800 in Mississippi who had never heard of it, and they just they just sent 631 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:45,440 me some links on Google which I could find myself. So when I first 632 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:51,159 started talking to Calvin, the case was dead and buried because for so many 633 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,639 years Charles Hickson had been the torch bearer, and of course he died in 634 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,599 twenty eleven and Calvin didn't want anything to do with it. It did a 635 00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:05,639 couple of interviews in twenty thirteen rather reluctantly, but then he disappeared back into 636 00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:12,119 the undergrowth again. So it was resurrected by Calvin stepping forward. And then 637 00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:15,440 on top of that, all these other people I've only given it. You 638 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,960 know, a couple of instances tonight, others that a stepped forward are we've 639 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,440 found by other means, and that hasn't stopped. You know, I've seen 640 00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:31,800 a couple of little statements just this week from a person who said that, 641 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,880 you know, as a young kid, they saw that thing that night. 642 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,639 Now I've sent them a message. Whether they'll respond or not is a different 643 00:51:38,639 --> 00:51:45,280 matter. So you know, that aspect hasn't hasn't finished. And you know, 644 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,519 we're hoping that the new book there there's actually an appeal in the back 645 00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:53,639 of the book for other witnesses to contact us, and it'll be interesting to 646 00:51:53,639 --> 00:51:58,639 see where that goes, you know, and see see if if you see 647 00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:01,599 what pots up next, so to speak. Well, if people want to 648 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:08,599 sort of read about all the actor, all the other evidence and material that 649 00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:13,079 you found, that obviously going to have to go out by the book working 650 00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:15,760 there. Where can they get the book from? Yeah? What what Irena 651 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,159 and I decided to do with the book. We've made it available in a 652 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,239 variety of formats. So there's a very large hardback, there's a ten by 653 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:29,440 eight paperback, there's a nine by six paperback, there's a kindle and an 654 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:36,920 audiobook. We are conscious of today's economic situations, so hopefully there's somewhat something 655 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,559 for everybody's you know, wallet there or pop of a pocket and just go 656 00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:45,199 to Amazon. You know it's it's all there on Amazon. And the book 657 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:52,840 is beyond reasonable doubt. The pastorgoula, alien abduction, and everything we've uncovered, 658 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,760 we've not hidden anything is in that book. And the reason we use 659 00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:02,599 that title because I was watching you know, courtroom drama one night and it 660 00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:08,320 said, oh, we need to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Our argument is 661 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,760 if we could check all those witnesses and all that evidence into a courtroom, 662 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:19,800 we could prove beyond reasonable doubt that something bizarre, something quite extraordinary happened that 663 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,400 night. Yeah, but I'll proved they would abducted by aliens, but something 664 00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:29,239 quite extraordinary. And we say, you know, you judge for yourself. 665 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,559 Here is what we've uncovered. There you go, And I would imagine that 666 00:53:32,599 --> 00:53:39,000 there's probably more evidence out there that you'll uncover going forward. I suspect there's 667 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:44,920 probably more witnesses that that haven't come forward for one reason or another, because 668 00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:52,239 it sounds like it was quite a well observed phenomena that happened. Well, 669 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,000 that's it, you see, Craig. The location where this incident took places 670 00:53:55,079 --> 00:54:00,000 not in the middle of the Mississippi Swampland's right. It's right Hi Highway nineteen. 671 00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:05,280 There's a Moultorway bridge goes over the river. It's a very populated area 672 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,519 that Yeah, we have a witness who was driving over the bridge that night. 673 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,559 You know, he's gone on the record. Yeah, we have a 674 00:54:10,599 --> 00:54:15,199 gentleman who was working in the shipyard on the other side of the river that 675 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,320 night. He's gone on the record, and others in and around the area. 676 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,280 You know. So maybe the book, maybe the passing of Calvin, 677 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:29,239 will galvanize people and think, well that time we told what we saw that 678 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,920 night. You know, yeah, but I fingers crossed. Well, I 679 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:37,079 mean, it's quite a legacy that he's left behind, and I think you 680 00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:44,440 probably know him as as as well as anyone. You obviously speak very fondly 681 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,679 of the man. I mean, certainly from from the story that you've told 682 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,719 and from the evidence, I think, I don't think there is any any 683 00:54:52,760 --> 00:55:00,159 doubt that something very strange happened to those two men and to others obviously at 684 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,039 night. And I can only urge you know, the people who are listening 685 00:55:05,079 --> 00:55:09,639 to this this podcast quite and buy the book because it's it's it's a fabulous 686 00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:14,920 read, and the evidence in there I think is really overwhelming, isn't it. 687 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:16,239 It is. I like it. Like I've said before, if you're 688 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,519 only going to buy one UFOL book this year, by this one, by 689 00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:23,880 this one, I'm biased. I know that, and I've read a lot 690 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:29,920 of UFOL books and I personally don't think there's anything like it. And you 691 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,800 don't have to agree with us. I'm not saying that that at all. 692 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:37,920 We're not out doming doctrinate anyone. We're saying here's the evidence we were masked. 693 00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:42,320 See if you agree with us or not. Yeah, well it's been 694 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,679 amazing talk to Philip. Thank you and thanks very much. I'm sure that 695 00:55:45,679 --> 00:55:49,639 that because of your your relationship with Calvin, and as we said, it's 696 00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:52,639 on him in a few days really since since the sad Nose broke, So 697 00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:58,280 I would imagine that you are in great demand to talk about your friendship and 698 00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:00,719 the research that you've done. So I do appreciate you're giving up your time 699 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,480 this evening to come and talk to me. It's been it's been a really 700 00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:07,320 really interesting chat. I am. I am really grateful. Thank you. 701 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,360 No, no, it's my pleasure, Craig and I dare say we will 702 00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:14,280 talk again. I hope, so absolutely, thank you for thank you for 703 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,000 coming on Philip, and take care my pleasure mate. Thank you. You 704 00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:23,239 can visit my website at www dot Craig Bryant dot co dot uk. Paranormal 705 00:56:23,280 --> 00:57:16,239 Pendule will return and remember to keep watching. The shadows told and told me