1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,719 This is London calling, London, calling mother. Collins went to Rostov, 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:10,039 the other towards Moscow. Not a single soldier was killed. We regret that 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:16,000 we were forced to strike at an aircraft, but they threw bombs at us. 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,160 He goes on to say, we went at two hundred kilometers short of 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:27,120 Moscow. The purpose of the campaign was to bring justice to those who made 6 00:00:27,239 --> 00:00:38,960 mistakes. This was demanded by the public and military personnels. Welcome to London, 7 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,280 calling with me, James Delingpot. I'm a very good friend, mister 8 00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:47,119 Toby Young. I find that not much has been happening in this in these 9 00:00:47,119 --> 00:00:51,560 sort of dog days of is it dog days yet? Of summer? You 10 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:59,079 mean apart from the Titan submersible story, the attempted coup in Russia, the 11 00:00:59,119 --> 00:01:02,679 possibility at the head of the Wagner group has got hold of some nukes. 12 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:07,799 We can talk about those, and I've interested to hear or take on those. 13 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,920 No, I just mean in your life. You mean in my life, 14 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,760 And I mean because the ground's too hard for riding. Really, the 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,760 horses don't get her excited? Um, I mean my squash plants that I 16 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:26,239 planted a week ago have started sprouting that. That's exciting. But I'm trying 17 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:32,359 to think, Um, did you get my message, James. Someone someone 18 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,760 bumped into they were I think they were in Shropshire. Yeah, well maybe 19 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:42,680 they I think this was in Gibraltar. They easily confused. They met someone 20 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:53,760 who was involved in the Shropshire Hunt and she's very keen for you to go 21 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,879 hunting with them. Oh good, No, we would love James Delingpole to 22 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:04,640 come to the South Shropshire Hunt. And I passed on her details to you, 23 00:02:05,719 --> 00:02:07,800 and I don't know if you've got them. I passed them on to 24 00:02:07,919 --> 00:02:13,800 your usually mail address. Okay, I'm going to share WhatsApp. I try 25 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,719 sharing them with your Yeah, do that? Do that? Because that sounds 26 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:19,479 like my kind of thing. I mean, I have to say, as 27 00:02:19,479 --> 00:02:24,400 a warning to to Team James people, I don't know whether I'm revealing any 28 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,560 deep secrets here. I can be quite flaky, and I'm really flaky at 29 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,000 the moment. I've got I've got about a renewed bout of my whatever my 30 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,039 health condition is, so I you know, call it lime, call it 31 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,800 whatever, and it just makes you feel completely spaced out and kind of apathetic. 32 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,800 So I just don't do anything. I just don't answer you miles and 33 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,439 stuff. But that said, I would very much like to come hunting with 34 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,520 the South Shropshire before they before they ban it, which I'm sure was the 35 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,919 plan. I'm sure what happened when Kastoma gets it. But yeah, have 36 00:02:58,039 --> 00:03:00,319 you been doing it? I mean you're you're an orcoholic tope, so you've 37 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:06,800 probably been doing loads of stuff and fighting lots of free speech union cases that 38 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,039 you want to tell me about before we move swiftly on. Yeah, well, 39 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:15,199 um, I've had a fairly busy time. So on on Wednesday, 40 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:22,560 I was the I was an invited speaker a Gentleman's club for their annual midlife 41 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:29,240 cris Crisis dinner. Um, and I was terrible. Yeah that's actually quite 42 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:32,639 fun. And then you like drinking, so you would, Yeah, and 43 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:38,639 you like you like gentlemen's clubs. I really don't anymore. I do quite. 44 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:40,840 I do quite like them, yes, um, and I particularly like 45 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:43,960 this one I've only been to. I've only been to it once before, 46 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,800 but I the food and the wine over lunch. Anyway, the first time 47 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,879 I went was very very good. Um, so I was. I was. 48 00:03:54,039 --> 00:04:00,719 I was happy to be their guest speaker. But when I you funny, 49 00:04:00,479 --> 00:04:03,360 well, I gave a well just before I was due to speak, 50 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:06,759 I sort of I thought i'd better double check I had in fact written a 51 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,439 speech, And I said, what is it you're expecting me to talk about? 52 00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:14,960 What of previous speakers talked about? And he said, well, a 53 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,240 lot of the people here probably aren't very politically correct. I think if you 54 00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:20,279 shared some of your opinions about some of the things happening in the news, 55 00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:26,160 you'd find them a very receptive audience. And of course my speech wasn't about 56 00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:30,360 that at all. I'd written a speech was sort of basically cataloging my career, 57 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:33,800 sort of describing how from one failure to the next with no loss of 58 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:43,040 enthusiasts and telling kind of you know, the best anecdotes from my time at 59 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,560 Oxford. The Times, vanity fair, why I'd been kent sorted, why 60 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,120 I'd set the free speech with accents, with amusing accents on the way with 61 00:04:51,199 --> 00:04:55,600 amusing accents James, Yes, but kind of well worn territory, it must 62 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,560 be said, well worn territory. Yeah, my greatest hits. And anyway, 63 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,319 it seemed to go down okay, even though it clearly wasn't what they're 64 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:09,199 expecting. Um, but after it's tough, Oh, it is tough. 65 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:15,920 After that, James, I then went along to another party where which I've 66 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,360 been I've been invited to a dinner, um, and couldn't go to the 67 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:25,639 dinner because I've already committed to this, this this speech. So I went 68 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:31,040 along for drinks afterwards and Boris Johnson was there and m and I had a 69 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:39,000 nice chat with him. Actually, um, he was He's quite he's quite 70 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:45,680 changeable. So sometimes when I've bumped into him at events, um, fundraisers, 71 00:05:46,399 --> 00:05:49,040 Tory stuff, um, he kind of gives me a quizzical look because 72 00:05:49,079 --> 00:05:53,079 if to say, what are you doing here, and then kind of moves 73 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:58,199 on to the next outstretched hand. But this time he'd evidently had had a 74 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:03,199 little bit to drink. He was very He sort of leapt up. And 75 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,800 why would you not be friendly to Utubes? I mean, you've never dissed 76 00:06:05,879 --> 00:06:11,279 him. Well, the first thing he said to me was, oh no, 77 00:06:11,439 --> 00:06:15,800 no, juby jibby. I remember you saying I should resign. You 78 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,800 said I should resign when I was PM. Why why why did you say 79 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,680 that? So there you go, James, not only have I dissed him. 80 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,759 He recalled it. It was the first thing he brought up, um 81 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,360 and um, And I said, well, um, we had a difference 82 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:34,600 of opinion about the best way to respond to the pandemic. And I thought 83 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:41,519 your initial response was bang on the money. But I was really dishard you. 84 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,600 Yeah, but I was really disheartened when you changed your mind and told 85 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,079 us all to stay in our homes. And then did that you know too 86 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,720 much? And did he explain to you that the reason that he had to 87 00:06:53,759 --> 00:06:58,600 do it was because basically that he was he was he was forced to fake 88 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,800 having COVID and can near death experience and taken into a room where he was 89 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,480 warned that he didn't play ball, he was going to get off, and 90 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,120 that's why he changed tag. Funnily enough, he did not say that, 91 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,839 But I suppose he wouldn't he had to keep it secret, that wouldn't he 92 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,639 It's not that big a secret, But I mean, I mean, it's 93 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:23,439 it's a fairly open, yeah, open secret. But yeah, well I 94 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:27,040 do you No, I don't, I mean, but I don't think. 95 00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:31,319 Um. I mean the problem with that particular theory, James is the timelines 96 00:07:31,319 --> 00:07:36,120 don't work out because he changed his mind about plunging Britain into lockdown before he 97 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,439 contracted coronavirus. So it wasn't as if, but there are probably stages that 98 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,199 was then't have been the deciding factor. No, there there were probably stages. 99 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,720 They were probably twisting the thumb screws further and further, and that was 100 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:56,439 the next the next step. I mean, he was gracious enough to um 101 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,839 acknowledge without without doing it too explice and without giving me much that I could 102 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:07,720 kind of take away and write about. He was gracious enough to acknowledge that 103 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:13,120 that he might not have got the pandemic response completely right. Big of him. 104 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,720 So yeah, that millions or certainly hundreds and hundreds of thousands have had 105 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,199 their lives completely ruined as a result of his policies. So it's nice to 106 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:28,680 know that Boris is prepared to concede that maybe in not every detail was his 107 00:08:28,759 --> 00:08:33,399 response perfect. I felt a bit, I felt, I felt after we 108 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:39,039 were having a fairly kind of warm and friendly exchange. I think by that 109 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,120 point I was quite pissed, and so was he. Hugs may have been 110 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:45,919 involved, James, and I felt a bit. I felt, I felt, 111 00:08:45,919 --> 00:08:50,320 I felt a bit of a weasel because at the Gentleman's Club Midlife Crisis 112 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:56,440 dinner only forty five minutes earlier, I had actually i'd been asked. One 113 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,759 of the members asked me a question, asked me about Boris. Did I 114 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:05,159 still support Boris? What did I think he should have done during the lockdown? 115 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:07,960 And I and I said, you know, I was really pleased by 116 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,399 Boris's initial response. This is the guy that I've campaigned for and supported most 117 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,639 of my life, the guy wanted to be PM. He's made exactly the 118 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:22,840 right decision. He's holding his ground, he isn't caving into pressure public opinion. 119 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:26,039 He's it may even be a minority of view in his own cabinet, 120 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:31,159 but he's holding fast to it. And that's the guy I voted for because 121 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:37,559 it's the right decision, that's Churchilian. And then of course he allowed himself 122 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,559 to be browbeaten into changing his mind. And I think the culprits weren't, 123 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:46,240 you know, um agents of the cabal. I think it was, or 124 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,440 maybe you describe him as such, but I think it was just pressure from 125 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,840 Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove and Matt Hancock within the kind of within the confines 126 00:09:52,840 --> 00:10:01,320 of Downing Street and maybe maybe not, but yeah, anywhere. But and 127 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,279 I said, you know, we in that in that moment, you know, 128 00:10:05,879 --> 00:10:09,960 when Britain was facing a pivotal decision, it was a time of national 129 00:10:11,039 --> 00:10:16,799 crisis. What we needed was another Churchill. But actually what we ended up 130 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,919 with was another Chamberlain. So I felt a bit guilty having having described him, 131 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,399 yea a chamberlain then making nice with him forty five minutes later. I'll 132 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:33,240 tell you what I'm hearing you talk about about this stuff I think is very 133 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:37,559 useful for those people. There was a sort of hardcore element on Team James 134 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:45,279 who think that you are just absolutely in the pockets of big evil and that 135 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,240 you don't believe any of this stuff that you say, um and that you're 136 00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:54,080 just controlled. But it's obvious to me listening to you talk about this, 137 00:10:54,120 --> 00:11:00,360 do you actually do believe this stuff? That you genuinely do believe that politicals 138 00:11:00,639 --> 00:11:03,960 have autonomy? And you did have faith in Boris and as I hate calling 139 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:09,559 him um and and and so on. And it's not just I mean, 140 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:15,759 you're the worst that can be said about you is that you're from jam James 141 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:18,559 perspective, is that your naive that you're under a spell. It's not that 142 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,879 you're kind of spinning a line because your your paymasters would be my take, 143 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:30,919 Yeah, I think thank you. And by the same token, many people, 144 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,320 and many people in the previous week actually have come up to me and 145 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:39,639 said, why has James gone down all of these rabbit holes? What's happened 146 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:43,720 to him? What happened over the past three years? Is it just that 147 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:48,759 because he that's his audience, those are the people giving him donations and coming 148 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,960 to his live events and subscribing to him. Were you saw that idea in 149 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,679 their heads last week? I don't know what I don't see. I don't 150 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:03,679 think it was. But anyway, James, so they effectively accuse you of 151 00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:07,080 bad faith in the opposite direction. But I but I do say to them, 152 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,559 nope, I think he genuinely believes it. And my my and my 153 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:15,039 way of explaining it to them and persuading them that you know, it's perfectly 154 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,799 possible that you are saying all of these things in good faith, is I 155 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,399 say? I think of him, think of him as someone who's made a 156 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:31,600 late life conversion to become an evangelical Christian. You know, um, you 157 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,159 wouldn't you wouldn't you know, you wouldn't accuse someone of making that late life 158 00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:41,519 conversion of being a kind of hustler, you know, a preacher like some 159 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:48,559 American who's caught with his pants down in spite of preaching sexual purity from the 160 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,840 pulpit. And nor would you think that person if they made a late life 161 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,480 conversion and became an absolutely zealous evangelical Christian, You wouldn't necessarily think they were 162 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,679 mad either. I mean, you might think it a little bit odd and 163 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,840 you might have difficulty kind of reconciling it with the person you knew, But 164 00:13:05,879 --> 00:13:09,559 I then think you would jump to the conclusion that they've just gone mad. 165 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,399 So that's my way of explaining that's my way of explaining your late life conversion 166 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,039 as it well, it definitely wouldn't be a rational choice of all the things 167 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,120 that were going to become you wouldn't you know, if you had, if 168 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,080 el the options were on the table, you definitely wouldn't become a Christian because 169 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,639 Christianity is about choosing the hard path. It's you look at the lives of 170 00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:37,879 the saints and the prophets and the apostles. They had a pretty raft. 171 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,279 They didn't. There weren't many material rewards for it. So so yeah, 172 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,200 I think you made a perfectly fair point that, yeah, let's have a 173 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,759 break for an add a fox James Lax, you're for a ricochet dot com. 174 00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:52,440 The other day I was looking at the member feed, which unless you 175 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,120 remember, you can't read, and I was writing a little private piece about 176 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,440 my daughter's graduation. And I said it to private because I wanted it to 177 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,919 be for the community that is Ricochet, and gosh, I wish you would 178 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:05,279 have been able to read it. But that's on you, isn't it. 179 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:11,919 Now. I know everybody on the internet wants you to give them money streaming 180 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,320 services and subscriptions, and your apps have subscriptions, and it's just it's annoying. 181 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,679 And you look at it, you say, you know, I really 182 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,200 don't want to be burdened with another thing to pay. But the thing is, 183 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,240 Ricochet is not a burden. It's a gift. And once you go 184 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,679 there and start seeing all the voices, meet all the friends and between the 185 00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:31,559 diverse post I mean, we talk about a radio and jazz and old music 186 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,519 and sports and everything else, you'll realize this is the place you've been looking 187 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:39,639 for all these years on the internet. Forget Twitter, forget Facebook. Ricochet 188 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:43,720 that's the community that you have been looking for, Ricochet dot com. I'm 189 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:54,600 not at you go there right now. By the way, the aunt you 190 00:14:54,679 --> 00:15:03,080 just heard is what's called a programmatic ant, so it's essentially it's it's selected 191 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:09,519 by an algorithm, which I think doesn't use any It doesn't The algorithm doesn't 192 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,200 know what the content of London Calling is or our positions on various hot button 193 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,519 missus. I think it just knows, you know, the IP addresses of 194 00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:20,279 the people who were going to hear the ad, so it just sells things 195 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,399 to them, as it were, and it thinks they're most likely to buy, 196 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:30,200 which is why sometimes people hear ads they consider completely inappropriate slammed into the 197 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,440 middle of a London Calling episode, like I think in one case someone said 198 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,919 they had an ad for The Guardian in the middle of it. Happens quite 199 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,279 a lot. They've obviously got a huge advertising spend, haven't they, Yes, 200 00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:46,879 although I don't think it's very expensive, but that yeah, So we 201 00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:50,519 should say to our listeners, you know, we haven't selected. We didn't 202 00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:54,399 select the ad you just heard, and listeners in different parts of the country, 203 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:56,519 different parts of the world will have heard completely different ads. It's they're 204 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:02,679 tailored for you based on your esp and maybe some of your previous preferences. 205 00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:04,399 So if you just had an ad for The Guardian that maybe because you've just 206 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:11,639 bought some crunchy granola from Wait frozen. Yes, yeah, green ones I 207 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:15,759 think happened quite a lot, sort of sort of cellar panels or I don't 208 00:16:15,799 --> 00:16:19,960 know, did they advertise carbon credits or stuff like that? Maybe? Yeah. 209 00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:23,720 I think. I think what it's indicative of is just how much the 210 00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:33,200 world is blancrolled by stuff. The money that we've paid in the form of 211 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:38,480 taxes that then gets channeled back to these various green green entities, and then 212 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,960 they have a huge, huge advertising budgets to spend pushing products that we don't 213 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,440 want. Yeah. Yeah. So on Thursday, James I went to an 214 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,919 event were at any you would have been entirely out of place. So it 215 00:16:52,039 --> 00:17:03,279 was a two hour interview on stage with Michael Schellenberger and Matt Tayebee, the 216 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:11,359 two American journalists who produced the first tranche of Twitter files and who've testified before 217 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:17,119 Congress on what they call the censorship industrial complex, and I think by naming 218 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,759 it they have kind of increased awareness of it. And by that they mean 219 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:32,880 ngeo's commercial companies paid by large foundations and various Western states to police and suppress 220 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,559 what they identify as misinformation, disinformation, malinformation, and hate speech, but 221 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,839 which you and I would recognize as dissent of various kinds. Anyway, they'd 222 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:48,000 drawn attention to this kind of metastasizing disinfo sector that they call the censorship industrial 223 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:52,920 complex, and they'd come to London to try and whip up some opposition to 224 00:17:53,000 --> 00:18:00,480 it over here and try and form a kind of international organization initiative that can 225 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,480 take it on, because it is it is a global thing, and just 226 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:10,079 trying to take it on in individual countries given the global reach of these various 227 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:17,119 anti dysinfo organizations, makes sense. I mean, sorry, doing it internationally 228 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,480 makes sense anyway. And the person interviewing them on stage was Russell Brand Schellenberger. 229 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,279 Is it's either Californian, the Democrat who's stood as a yes, the 230 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,880 anti environmentalist. Well, he wouldn't describe himself as an anti environmentalist, but 231 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,039 yeah, he's a climate contrarian. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, I 232 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:40,920 did a podcast with him. It was great. We we bonded enormously, 233 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,440 his lovely, lovely chap Yeah, very nice. Indeed, really he's good 234 00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:49,000 and um yeah yeah. Anyway, so it was it was quite a fun 235 00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:55,440 meeting in Central Hall in Westminster. There must have been about five hundred people 236 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,160 there, um and um. And then the following day a much small all 237 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:07,119 a group of people about forty five people met at Unheard with Michael Schellenberger and 238 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,440 met Tybee. And there were people there from different countries who are fighting this 239 00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:15,799 particular battle in their countries. There was a group from Brazil, there was 240 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:21,400 a woman from Italy, there was a there was a the Free Speech Ireland 241 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,400 group who who who are campaigning against the Hate Crime Bill in Ireland, which 242 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:32,200 is a very sinister piece of legislation, and and we were discussing, you 243 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,559 know, what can we do about this, and we did come to a 244 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:41,599 conclusion to do something which which I think is for the time being secret, 245 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:48,559 but which which will announce shortly. But yeah, Michael Schellenberger was an excellent 246 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:55,519 chair of this meeting and managed to put us all together towards the end and 247 00:19:56,039 --> 00:20:00,160 to unite around a kind of comment good idea. I'm very suspicious of all 248 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:06,960 these these groups. I just think that they're they're like they're they're designed to 249 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,039 corral the opposition. I don't I don't think that they achieve anything. I 250 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:17,240 mean, I listen, I'd be really glad if you and your your team 251 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,200 managed to do something effective. But I'm very suspicious of like, like anything, 252 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:29,160 any group purporting to represent the freedom fighters is almost certainly controlled opposition in 253 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,599 one form or another. I mean the fact that it was hosted by Unheard, 254 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,880 which which in itself is called controlled opposition. That makes me smell a 255 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,119 rat. It's a bit like Together, you know, it's one of those 256 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,720 groups that you think just pushes it so far, but not so far that 257 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:48,480 there's any threat to anything. Well. I don't think Together or Unheard a 258 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,119 controlled opposition. But I also think that it that this this group may be 259 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,160 able to achieve something. I mean, I think the UM the group in 260 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,440 Ireland have run a six accessful campaign against the Irish Hate Crome Bill and they're 261 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:10,759 gradually winning over more and more Irish politicians to their side. They're raising awareness 262 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,319 of the bill in the Irish and international media, and I don't think it's 263 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:18,559 a foregone conclusion that that bill will pass, certainly not in its current form. 264 00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:21,799 It may I bet it will, Well, we'll see it may be 265 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:25,279 it may pass, but in an amended, less raconian form, which would 266 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:27,200 be yeah, but you know what this is. This is this is this 267 00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:33,000 is the Hegelian dialectic. It's problem reaction and solutions. So the best you 268 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,160 can hope for I find in these situations is, yes, it's gone through 269 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,960 the bill, but we did manage to secure these really vital amendments that that 270 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:47,319 you know, we're not going to close you down from speaking on a Tuesday 271 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,599 afternoon, and that's I think that's quite a win for our team. And 272 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,960 it's not really, it's just like we should be. They're winning, they 273 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,720 win all the time, but it's we're too reasonable. Well, there was 274 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,000 one way which I think we can take on the sensitive industrial complexes. We 275 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:15,680 can at least persuade various state departments which are supposed to be politically impartial, 276 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:22,720 to stop stop giving them huge grants. We haven't yet succeeded in doing that 277 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:26,000 in the UK. So, for instance, the one of the players in 278 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:33,160 the COVID industrial complex is the Global Disinformation Index, which was originally anyway a 279 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:41,160 UK company and is at present part funded by the Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office, 280 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:47,119 and which there was a big news story in America a few months ago 281 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,720 because it identified what it called the ten least reliable and ten most reliable news 282 00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:56,160 publishing sites, and the ten least reliable were almost all right of center, 283 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,920 and the ten most reliable were almost all left of center. And the news 284 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,599 publishing sites included on the least reliable list, which it also referred to as 285 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:10,599 a blocklist, and it was intended to discourage advertisers from advertising on these particular 286 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:18,480 sites. They included The American Spectator, The Federalist Reason, Real Clear Politics, 287 00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:25,000 the New York Post, and of course the publications on the most reliable 288 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,720 side were the New York Times and CNN and MSNBC and the rest of them. 289 00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:40,680 So that was so blatantly politically biased that I think a congresswoman, a 290 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:47,640 Republican congresswoman, managed to persuade the National Endowment for Something or other, which 291 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,119 was funding GDI in the US, and which gets most of its money from, 292 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,839 if not all, from the State Department, to stop funding GDI, 293 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,920 So it has been defunded at least by the US government, so the next 294 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,519 step is to try and get it funded by the UK government. But given 295 00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:06,480 the success of the defunding campaign in America, I don't think it's inconceivable that 296 00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:11,160 we might achieve the same in the UK. And News Guard another of these 297 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:15,920 pillars of the censorship industrial complex, which you'll you'll you'll dislike, in particular 298 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:22,000 because it's part funded by Microsoft. They and what they operate in a similar 299 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:29,079 way. They give news publishing sites a ranking out of a hundred, and 300 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,720 if if they get a low ranking, or even a ranking below eighty five, 301 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,920 or possibly even below ninety, it's very very difficult to attract advertising on 302 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:44,160 your website. And the Daily Skeptic was it got a ranking I think of 303 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:51,039 seventy five, and I complained about this, and it got a ranking of 304 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,480 seventy five because it said we frequently published misinformation and fulsome misleading claims in various 305 00:24:56,519 --> 00:25:02,079 articles, particularly about climate change and the vaccines. Anyways, I wrote to 306 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,000 them and said, you know, this is ridiculous. I can't get any 307 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,880 advertising because you're only giving me seventy five out of a hundred. Can we 308 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,920 review my ranking? And after about six months I got a reply and they 309 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,319 said, yeah, okay, well we'll conduct a review. And they sent 310 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,119 me all the pages that they thought, all the stories and the Daily Skeptic 311 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:25,039 that they had flagged as containing misinformational, fulsomeness leading claims. And I then 312 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,559 responded in great detail the things they'd flagged up in these pieces, in which 313 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:37,680 I pointed out that I think every case what they had classified as misinformation was 314 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:44,359 just a difference of opinion about how to interpret particular data. But I did 315 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,839 say, I said to them, look, I think this is an honest 316 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,440 difference of opinion, and we should just agree to differ. There isn't there 317 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,799 isn't a fact of the matter in how to interpret this complicated and sometimes fluid 318 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:03,640 data. But so we're not guilty of making false and misleading claims any more 319 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:10,160 than you would be if you published your interpretation of this data. But what 320 00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:15,039 I will do is I'll publish the fact that you have reservations about this particular 321 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,640 article, and I'll link to any fact checks that you've sent to me about 322 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,119 this particular article, and then beneath that, I'll publish our rebuttal. And 323 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,680 I thought that would be enough for them. They'd be able to show their 324 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,799 funders like Microsoft, that websites that they regard, as you know, Dodgy 325 00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:38,640 are acting more responsibly by agreeing to publish links to fact checks beneath contentious articles. 326 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,160 But as I was expecting them to kind of upgrade me having engaged in 327 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,720 good faith over a lengthy period of time, I mean it must have taken 328 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:49,559 weeks of work games and I then did put all these postscripts beneath all the 329 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,319 articles they FLAQ, and then of course their reaction was to downgrade me from 330 00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:03,039 seventy five out of one hundred to thirty seven and a half untouchable. Yeah, 331 00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:06,000 it was worth it for that payoff tabs. I think we should, 332 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,440 but I think I want to. I want to hear your your take, 333 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,000 your hot take on the submarine. Well, I thought, James, as 334 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,920 an experiment, we could we could. I could give what I think is 335 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,359 your take, and you could give what you think is going to be my 336 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,599 take, to see if we know each other's side well enough to do that. 337 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:30,440 Well, I'm kind of I'm only only peripherally interested in your take. 338 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,480 I just imagine it was pretty much the story that was played out in the 339 00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:38,319 newspapers. So but am I wrong? Do you do you do you have 340 00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:44,319 special insights that that that weren't in the By the way, I'm meant to 341 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,599 ask you, Tabs, what newspapers do you read? Do you read the 342 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:53,880 newspapers? Yeah, I'm constantly combing through lots of newspapers news publishing sites looking 343 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,039 for stories which are the main one of the main papers. We do it 344 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:00,559 because, you know, because I I we either need to summarize them in 345 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:04,160 the Daily Skeptic or include them in the news roundups. But I guess the 346 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,079 I mean I saw I look at all the papers, James, mainly UK 347 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,000 papers, but not exclusively. I sometimes look. I mean, I look, 348 00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:18,480 you know, Telegraph, Times, Guardian, Sun Mail, very occasionally 349 00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:22,279 the Independent, but its website is just so bad it's almost impossible to navigate. 350 00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:29,000 Ditto the Express, the Conservative, Woman, Spectator, Unheard in America, 351 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:34,240 Brownstone Institute. And then we will look a lot of sub stacks to 352 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,720 see if we want to republish any of them, which is a good source 353 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:44,160 of stuff for us. Right. Sometimes I suppose to cut to the chase. 354 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,240 Would it be fair to say that, roughly roughly speaking, your take 355 00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:53,599 on the Titans? I believe it's called the Titan sub It's roughly the version 356 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,519 of events that you one read in in the those various mainstream media legacy media 357 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,720 news. Well, would the actually the coverage was there, wouldn't The jury 358 00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:12,880 seemed to be out on whether, um, the the US was it The 359 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:26,400 US Navy had had deliberately kept back the evidence it had stumbled across that there 360 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:33,880 had been an underwater explosion, um for kind of um sinister reasons, or 361 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,480 whether it had just kept it back because it was still unsure exactly how to 362 00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:45,160 interpret these audio signals it had received what it had described them as anomalous. 363 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,160 I think it was an underwater anomaly, but they didn't know for sure it 364 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,000 was an explosion, so um, but they didn't seem to be a clear 365 00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:56,240 line on that particular point in the MSN. But some people were saying, 366 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,400 the US Navy sat on this information and we were all strung along thinking that 367 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,680 there was a possibility the people on these submersible might be rescued. Why didn't 368 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,160 they tell us sooner? That's very sinister what's going on? And there are 369 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,759 others who thought, well, there's a perfectly innocent explanation. They just hadn't 370 00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,000 worked out exactly what the data meant at that point and didn't. What do 371 00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:23,519 you think, what's your best guess what really happened? My best guess is 372 00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:30,599 that, well, one one one conservative take, James, is that the 373 00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:40,119 chap who ran the submersible company is a great exponent of equity, diversity and 374 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,200 inclusion, and had said I think at some point that he's not a great 375 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:51,400 believer in hiring middle aged, heterosexual white men. He likes to give engineering 376 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,640 opportunities to a much more diverse group of people. And so people were saying, 377 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,759 well, no, wonder the submersible imploded. You know, you didn't 378 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,440 hire the best people to design it. You you know, if you if 379 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,200 you'd had a more marriage credit hiring policy, maybe this wouldn't have happened. 380 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,480 Yes, you're taken, James, Well, it's funny I thought you might 381 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:18,799 mention that detail that when I read that that detail, I thought, this 382 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:26,039 is such an obvious piece of red meat, like like almost ground bait for 383 00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:33,319 the for people of a conservative persuasion, that it just made me think maybe 384 00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:40,440 the whole story is fake. So clearly, clearly people who consider themselves conservative 385 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:48,359 commentator's right wing would elatch onto this, this fantastic cherishable detail that basically this 386 00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:59,200 woke, woke billionaire was using cut priced subs run by interns basically chosen for 387 00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:05,000 their for their diversity or whatever, rather than for their technical skills, and 388 00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:10,400 that this is it was a kind of tremendous I mean, schadenfreuder on stilts 389 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,440 for conservative commentators, but there was also there was also a scharden freud angle 390 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:21,880 for left wing commentators too. I mean, there was a lot of triumphalism 391 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,880 and cackling about the fact that these these men with obviously more money than sense, 392 00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:32,200 yeah, had had effectively killed themselves by by trying to go on this 393 00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:37,640 exotic adventure. There was a kind of you know, anti billionaire schaden freuder. 394 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:42,160 I think we can agree there was something for everyone, which is again 395 00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:45,759 what makes me smell a rat, must smell several huge rats about the story. 396 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,200 I look. My view is that suppose all the facts or some of 397 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,240 the facts that's presented to us were vaguely true about the run up to this 398 00:32:55,319 --> 00:33:02,720 story, I think it is even that everyone knew, I mean, the 399 00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:09,559 US Navy, the Biden administration, certainly the senior bods in the media all 400 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:20,079 knew that the suburb imploded by last weekend, and yet they they ran this 401 00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:23,039 story this will they won't they survive? Oh, we've only got a few 402 00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:28,640 hours left before rescue them. This this story which had loads of people, 403 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,480 including members of my family, on the edge of their seat because submarine stories 404 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,599 there was there was there was a famous incident before the Second World War when 405 00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,119 a submarine went down and there was a sort of will they won't they survive? 406 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:45,559 And there was that incident with the Russian submarine a few years ago. 407 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:50,720 And so these stories are always very, very gripping because everyone can identify. 408 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,640 Everyone's seen or many of us have seen dust built. We can all identify 409 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,599 with with the claustrophobic horrors, and we think about what a way to go 410 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:06,039 and stuff. Um I do I do believe that the media. The media 411 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:09,639 knew about this, They knew they were they had already gone. But at 412 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:17,360 the behest of the Biden administration into Alia, they ran with this complete distracting 413 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:25,840 story in order well the number of things, revelations about Hunter Biden, revelations 414 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,920 about Durham. Um, you know, the Durham investigations in the US. 415 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:38,719 I thought the failure of the of the Ukrainian counter offensive it's never clear. 416 00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:45,880 But I mean, let me explain in in my velt an showing my understanding 417 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,480 of the world, that the whole of the whole of everything you read about 418 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,159 them in the media is a lie. It's not that I'm being evasive when 419 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:57,840 I say I don't know what particular story is this. This crap is distracting 420 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,079 you from because almost by definition, and you're not going to know, because 421 00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:04,840 that is how these stories work. They are designed to focus our attention on. 422 00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:07,320 Look at these shenanigans. Look at this. Here is this character, 423 00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:10,840 this billionaire that you've never heard of, who lived in who lives in Dubai. 424 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,519 So you start thinking, well, who is he? Have I never 425 00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:16,719 heard of him? Where did he get this airline company that I never heard 426 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,079 of? And stuff? And what about the eighteen year old boy who didn't 427 00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:23,119 want to go with his dad but it was Father's day. So when you 428 00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:28,280 can identify all the stuff, I can see why people are drawn into this 429 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,280 stuff, which is which is how the media works. It's a distraction device. 430 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:37,920 But I don't know exactly what the many stories are. They weren't reporting 431 00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:40,599 or lightly reporting. It was designed to distract us from. But yeah, 432 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,639 another thing too, which will come to an a minute when you when you 433 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,960 made your point. Well, I just gonna ask you if, if, 434 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:54,400 if the media is so controlled that it does the bidding of various people who 435 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,559 want, who want, who want, who want, who want, members 436 00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:04,519 of the pub to be distracted from their wrongdoing, how is it that the 437 00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:09,760 story then emerged that the US Navy and others knew that or suspected that the 438 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:17,159 sub had imploded days before the search concluded. I mean, doesn't seem that 439 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,639 they're doing a great job of controlling the media that story got out? Nonetheless, 440 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,639 No, Well, because happily there are others, There are other sources 441 00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:30,400 of information other than the legacy of media, the mainstream media, that they 442 00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:35,920 don't yet. Although I'd like to have total control over all the information we 443 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,480 get, so inevitably this stuff slips out and while we're another although you know, 444 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,760 even then you're never sure whether you can trust it. You have to 445 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,079 kind of compare sources and decide which story you trust, don't you that that's 446 00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:53,519 that's all you can hope to do. The other detail and the other reason 447 00:36:53,679 --> 00:37:00,320 I sort of have my doubts about so many aspects of the story, I 448 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,119 mean, get given that the media played us along for three or four days 449 00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:07,760 with what they need to be a lie. Certainly at a senior level, 450 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,960 I'm sure, I'm sure one of these stories were prepared and planted. Um 451 00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:15,440 there's the nature of the of the exercise that was being conducted. Um, 452 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,360 you know what what the titan was doing. It was looking at the wreck 453 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,880 of of what the Titanic. Titanic didn't really think that was just a big 454 00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:37,199 the Olympic. This see the story obviously, this is this is Team James, 455 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:38,679 Tim Toby. People will be poored by this. They'll think it's a 456 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,760 kind of crazy conspiracy theory whatever because they haven't read read up on it. 457 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,559 But the Titanic as it was sold to us, did not sink as a 458 00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:55,320 result of hitting an iceberg, not least because just as jet jet fuel can't 459 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:02,400 melt steel steal reinforce steel girders, So the whole of the of the ice 460 00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:07,000 of the Titanic stroke Olympic was was more than enough to handle bump into an 461 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:15,360 iceberg. The Titanic was actually sunk for a couple of reasons, partly as 462 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:21,199 an insurance job by the incredibly corrupt and wicked owner of the White Star Line, 463 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:28,719 JP Morgan, and partly to bump off four. I think it was 464 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:37,079 key opponents of the Federal Reserve. You remember what year the Titanic sank in, 465 00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:40,519 nineteen thirteen, nineteen twelve, and when was the Federal Reserve created? 466 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,000 Can you tell me, James? Nineteen thirteen, So a year, a 467 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:49,559 year, within a year of the Titanic sinking the Federal Reserve being created. 468 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,800 And happily for the people who created the Federal Reserve, several of the key 469 00:38:55,599 --> 00:39:00,159 opponents of the Federal Reserve had gone down with the ship on this maiden voyage, 470 00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:05,960 which which amazingly JP Morgan at the very last minute was found himself too 471 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,800 ill to attend. You might have to get off the ship. Um so. 472 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,840 And you saw a hint of this in the I don't know you saw 473 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,880 it. There was a story in the in the papers about how it may 474 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,000 be that there was another factor in the sinking of the Titanic besides the iceberg. 475 00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:25,840 And it was a story about something about the boiler room exploding or the 476 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,000 engine room. In other words, what they were already doing is seeding the 477 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,840 idea that maybe if the if the record was examined, it would be shown 478 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,519 that there had been an explosion as well as the as the damage from the 479 00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:44,719 outside done by an iceberg. Um yeah, so I think the Titanic probably 480 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,599 sank because it was blown up, but sabotage rather than hitting an iceberg. 481 00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:52,400 But it's worth it. Look when you've got time ted because I mean, 482 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,880 obviously we can't cover this on this this particular, it's worth looking into. 483 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:05,199 Always good to hear another conspiracy theory. So, um, should we cut? 484 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,719 Should we have one more break? I mean we haven't talked about the 485 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,760 bargainerking. Maybe we should briefly talk about that. I think we should definitely 486 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,639 talk about that. You think it's important culture corner. Um, so let's 487 00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:22,719 do the next break before culture corner. So what's your take on the failed 488 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,039 wagoner? But yeah, it's interesting because because you got quite cross. When 489 00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:30,440 I was, I was like suggesting that there wasn't much. There wasn't much 490 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,079 in the news this week. Um I got I got invited onto a to 491 00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:38,840 do a show yesterday about on this subject. And I said, look, 492 00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:45,400 if there's one thing I've seen in the last um this this is on Sunday, 493 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:51,320 there's one thing I've noticed in this this weekend of news from Russia. 494 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:59,599 It's all these pundits um coming up with these wildly contradictory version of events, 495 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,199 versions of events about what's gone on. And I don't want to be one 496 00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:07,280 of those people. I mean, I don't want to be to you who 497 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,480 I don't want to be John Sweeney? Did you did you see him? 498 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:15,719 He has gone a bit mad, he has, but I mean he used 499 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,480 to be. I suppose people are saying what happened to Sweeney? But I 500 00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:22,760 say, people say, what's happened to James John Sweeney? Well, I 501 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,079 mean he was quite the thing, wasn't he Wasn't he observed like BBC? 502 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,320 Yeah, I think he was for a long time at Panorama, Wasn't He 503 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:37,000 made several panoramas? Yeah, SA, the flagship the documentary Current Affairs show. 504 00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:40,119 Okay, so this John Sweeney was pictured wearing did you notice this way? 505 00:41:40,199 --> 00:41:47,000 Maybe you don't follow him. He was wearing blue and yellow um now 506 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:54,320 nail polish on his fingers signify his allegiance, and he was getting really excited. 507 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,920 He was saying that the tanks are now the tanks of the Wagner group. 508 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,400 I presume it's Wagner rather than Wagner, the Wagner Group are now within 509 00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:09,000 twenty miles of Moscow. The unthinkable has happened. There was no resistance, 510 00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:15,360 There was no popular will to resist this, this glorious coup against the evil 511 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:22,719 Putler. Um. And unless something has happened since we started the show, 512 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,840 I don't think Putler has been has been deposed that. I mean, it 513 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,760 was a big fact nothing burger, wasn't it the this if it was a 514 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,199 coup, well, it was a bit anti climatic, certainly. Um. 515 00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:39,679 One moment, you know, the I'm going to call him the Wagner Group, 516 00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:43,000 but I don't know what the correct pronunciation is. One minute, they 517 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,559 were, you know, their tanks and troops and missile batteries were on their 518 00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:53,400 way to Moscow, as you say, um. And the next and a 519 00:42:53,480 --> 00:43:00,719 settlement had been negotiated by the president of Belarus. Um And and it turned 520 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,679 out how do you pronounced the name of the leader of the Wagner Group, 521 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,840 Progogin. So next we knew he was he was, he was, he 522 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:14,039 was, he was going to go to Belarus, and Putin was safe. 523 00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:19,679 And it was unclear exactly why he'd abandoned his coup. So quickly. I 524 00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:22,960 mean he was. I guess he's been given that all charges against him have 525 00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:28,880 been dropped, so he's no longer being targeted for criminal prosecution by the Russian 526 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,559 state, and maybe that's what prompted him to mount this coup in the first 527 00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:37,400 place. Then there's a suggestion that he might have picked up some he might 528 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:45,400 have picked up some nukes from one of the towns cities he's successfully captured during 529 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,599 the coup's twelve year life. Were you sound like you're word about this, 530 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,880 because you you were quite emotional about at the beginning of the podcast. I 531 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,079 didn't need to be emotional, and I was just I just thought, I 532 00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:57,159 thought when you said nothing has happened in the last week, I was thinking, 533 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,880 quite a lot has happened. I didn't mean to stand emotional about being 534 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:09,480 nu gen acton by by precausion's wicked forces. No. No, I think 535 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,039 more likely he's if he's captured any nukes at all, he's captured some tactical 536 00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:20,199 nukes and he may in turn use them in Ukraine. I think that would 537 00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:23,199 be the that would be the biggest fear. But then there was also a 538 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:32,920 suggestion in the papers today that putin and his goons had threatened family members of 539 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,559 Pergossian uh, and that's why he called it off. But yeah, it 540 00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:43,599 was very mysterious. Why it was a little bits a correct name, his 541 00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:49,079 correct mainstream media name Putler, because he is the most evil man in the 542 00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:52,840 world. So I read I glanced at some of the some of the the 543 00:44:53,079 --> 00:44:59,199 legacy media reporting of this story, and it was just like reading it was 544 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:07,639 like sort of m I six Cia pawn just just designed for to fool everyone. 545 00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:09,840 I mean, I read the mail on Sunday and I read the Telegraph, 546 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,039 and they're all saying, like, the moment just calm, and lots 547 00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,320 of the talking heads were saying that this was the final moment where where Putler 548 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,920 was going to be going to be defenstrated. People had had enough and he 549 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,440 was really unpopular and he shot his bolt and blah blah blah. And yet 550 00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:31,159 I don't know, I've got a suspicion that what may have gone on here 551 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,719 is some classic Russian mass I don't have how to pronunce it correct because I 552 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,039 wish I could speak Russian. I mean, I was really in balanced the 553 00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:45,280 other day when I was talking about a character from Anna Karna and I was 554 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,360 calling I was calling him Levin and it's not Levin, it's Yaven Leaven that 555 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,039 all these kind of company anyway, But mask have you heard about the concept 556 00:45:53,039 --> 00:46:00,000 of Maska Rovska Maska Rovka. The Russians are really big on this. It's 557 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:04,920 the section basically, and there is a theory abroad and you could you know, 558 00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:07,400 I mean, I don't, I don't know, because I don't think 559 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:15,320 anyone knows anything about about this. The Brigossion actually has cooked this up with 560 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:23,800 his old pal Putin, and that it was a way of moving forces um 561 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:31,840 to the north of Ukraine right in order to facilitate an attack on Kiev or 562 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,280 Key as you probably call it, Muse. And they've just done that. 563 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:43,639 Anyway, why do they Well, because because you see, it's about geography 564 00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:49,159 and about about the area where they can move. So they're obviously being watched 565 00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:54,079 by NATO all the time. And if they simply move their the wagoner group, 566 00:46:54,239 --> 00:47:02,119 the forces wholesale to the north of of of within striking position of Kiev, 567 00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:07,000 which is in the north, it would be very obvious. But if 568 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,880 if they can do it as a pretend coup, which which which requires them 569 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:16,480 to retreat to Rostov and then sort of advance towards Moscow and then dramatically been 570 00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:22,440 told that they've got to go to Belarus, which is on top of Ukraine. 571 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,360 If you look at a map, Um, I mean there are now 572 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:30,559 I read one report that there's going to be eight thousand Wagner Group people stationed 573 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:36,159 in in Belarus. Why where did this agreement come from him? I mean 574 00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:39,400 surely, surely, if Precosson was staging a real coup, Putin would have 575 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:40,920 had him off. I mean, you know, there would have been a 576 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,719 lot more bloodshed than than than there has been. So what I'm saying is 577 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,599 that there's a lot about this story that doesn't make sense. And it's possible 578 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,480 that the Western media, certainly John Sweeney and possibly a few others, have 579 00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:59,639 been completely played by what looked like a cool reported like as a coup but 580 00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:08,039 actually a military tactic. Yeah, but um, against that, James, 581 00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:15,119 weren't a lot of Russian aircraft military aircraft shot down by the Wagner Group in 582 00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:22,199 the course of the COO, would would put In really willing to sacrifice all 583 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,960 those aircraft in order to kind of engage in a bit of sub diffuge to 584 00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:32,840 reposition the Volner group north of Kiev. From what I mean, I'm not 585 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,519 aware of this, of this this story about can we believe it anyway? 586 00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:40,039 Don't do we know how many aircraft was shotdown? I think what I what 587 00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:44,000 I would suggest is that and this doesn't apply to us, to Russia, 588 00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:49,559 this applies to all all countries. I think they're prepared to take a bit 589 00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:54,360 of a bit of collateral damage in order to advance a particular I mean, 590 00:48:54,519 --> 00:49:00,559 for example, look at Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor, the the American senior 591 00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:07,280 military stage that they sacrificed the lives of the people on the on the various 592 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:15,639 ships that went down in order to um to drag to to to widen scope 593 00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:17,639 of the war. They knew it was coming, You mean they knew it 594 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,960 was coming. Think you think they knew it was coming and didn't alert their 595 00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:24,440 naval base in Pearl Harbor. Yeah, totally, totally. It was. 596 00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:30,559 It was a trick they weren't. You don't the Americans look Okay, And 597 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:36,159 in the same way that Churchill, Churchill allowed the sinking of the of the 598 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:42,880 Lusitania um in order to drag America into the First World war. That's what 599 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,280 I mean that you think that the guys who make these decisions are kind of 600 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,440 like you and me, that they would not sacrifice their own people, But 601 00:49:51,559 --> 00:49:54,360 actually they didn't give a toss. They really don't. People like us are 602 00:49:54,400 --> 00:50:00,360 just worm food to them. Um should we types? Should? We? 603 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,119 Should? We? Should? We? Should? We have one more at 604 00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:19,559 break and then do culture Kuna. Hello. I'm Dennis Neal, and here's 605 00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:23,079 what's bugging me. The media are burying some of the biggest scandals of our 606 00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:27,960 lifetime, and I'm here to call them out on it and make fun of 607 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,519 them for it. The Twitter files and government censorship, the Biden documents, 608 00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:37,559 the Hunter laptop, the lies of the FBI, and the Russia Gate hoax, 609 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:43,599 China spy balloons and toxic chemical burnoffs. Join me to hear things no 610 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,400 other journalist will dare tell you. All that and more on What's Bugging Me? 611 00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:53,679 Available for download and streaming every Thursday right here on the Ricochet Audio Network 612 00:50:54,039 --> 00:51:15,559 and wherever you get your podcasts. Ricochet joined the Conversation. So, James, 613 00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:20,719 I haven't really seen anything new on TV this week because I've been so 614 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:28,280 busy, so um, but I have I have I've finished a book called 615 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:35,599 Traffic by Ben Smith, which is really about the rise of BuzzFeed and how 616 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:44,480 internet traffic became the sort of oil of the two thousands, and how those 617 00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:50,599 who managed to attract the most traffic it's boss still going rolling in money. 618 00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:53,440 Well, no, it isn't that extra. Isn't that weird? I think 619 00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:59,880 that's really weird that that BuzzFeed was this enormous thing and now it's just nothing. 620 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:02,119 It's just like, I don't know if it has it been closed harbage. 621 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,800 I think it still exists, but I think it in a march reduced 622 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,119 state and it's no longer valued at you know, one point one billion or 623 00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:16,679 whatever. No, it's like it's like the the i EA, or it's 624 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:22,119 like always institutions which used to be we used to care about and now just 625 00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:27,599 mean nothing. They're just gone over. Um I mean the instudent I Economic 626 00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:31,039 Affairs. Yeah, that's still garring James, It's um yeah. But what 627 00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:37,199 I mean is it's credibility shot. It's just like nobody I know just takes 628 00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:39,920 it seriously anymore. I mean, I think all the people that that that 629 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,440 that didn't take a strong line on the on the on the vacs and stuff. 630 00:52:45,639 --> 00:52:49,920 Their credibility is so shot that that nobody who thinks will ever take them 631 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:58,000 seriously again. I think maybe maybe amongst people like you awake, I think 632 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,079 I think it's their clock shot killed YAB. But I don't think many people. 633 00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:06,159 I don't think their their opinion of the IA will have been affected by 634 00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:08,079 that. No, I think it's still I think it's still a fantastic think 635 00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:15,480 tank. They published a fantastic book book length paper on which was a meta 636 00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:23,280 analysis of the effect of various non pharmaceutical interventions like lockdowns, and judged them 637 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:28,320 to be almost completely ineffective. They published a couple of weeks ago, and 638 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,800 they got quite a lot of pressed. The Telegraph gave it some good coverage. 639 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:37,400 I'd take them seriously if they started covering things like what seventy five percent 640 00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:40,920 increase year on year in cancer deaths in the US. Gosh, I wonder 641 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,280 what could have caused that? Or I think I think they didn't. I 642 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,239 think they I think in this book they do take account that it's all about 643 00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:52,079 the collateral damage called ye think they're going to be blaming a lot, You 644 00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:54,920 know, all these people, they've only got their own dying of cancer because 645 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:59,719 they didn't get at early treatment because of the lockdown. Where's not that It's 646 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,360 what I mean is when they start making the connection between the death jab and 647 00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:08,440 these they I'll start taking them seriously again. If they kept the lockdown, 648 00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:13,039 I'm thinking, No, you're just you're running cover for the enemy. Oh 649 00:54:13,159 --> 00:54:17,880 well, I think it's a I think you're wrong about that, But yeah, 650 00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:22,119 I wouldn't. I don't think i'd recommend traffic why Ben Smith, It's 651 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:27,800 it's it's it's really it should have been an essay in Wired and didn't really 652 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,239 didn't really kind of hold up as a book. But I've just started I've 653 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:37,559 just embarked Tom Framily Parsonage by Anthony Trollop, which is the I think it's 654 00:54:37,639 --> 00:54:44,960 the third book in the bars to chronicles. And I'm really as read by 655 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:50,639 Timothy West, who is still unsurpassed, I think as as as a voice 656 00:54:50,679 --> 00:54:52,880 actor, as a reader of audio books, he really is the best. 657 00:54:54,199 --> 00:55:00,079 Yes, And so I'm really enjoying that. Um well, I'm just on 658 00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:06,519 on number two of the paliss Okay, right, yeah, I've read those 659 00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:08,639 two. He narrates those two, doesn't he. He doesn't do the first 660 00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:12,280 one, but he does the second because I think he's probably better at Irish 661 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:19,320 accents than than the original. Okay, yes, the one about the Irish 662 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,559 MP exactly. Yeah, yeah, who's there are some great yeah, hunting 663 00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:29,679 scenes in that they're actually good, quite a bit of hunting in in the 664 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:35,079 in Framley Parsonage as well. Actually, what's really interesting is that I think 665 00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:43,280 he's quite good at getting inside the heads of young men, effectless young men 666 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:49,559 who want to get on. Um So some of the scenes I've very much 667 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,639 seen myself, um in when I was a younger man, sort of wanting 668 00:55:53,679 --> 00:56:00,480 to land invitations to big houses in order to be and to be invited shooting 669 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:07,800 and staff and yeah, without really sort of what I mean, why would 670 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,599 why would anyone want to invite somebody like you or me to these these big 671 00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:15,679 houses, and yet sort of consciousness of this need to get on and and 672 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:21,320 yes any effort, yeah, and and also being being flattered by the attentions 673 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:27,679 of airresses and duchesses all that, all that incredibly superficial world, which of 674 00:56:27,679 --> 00:56:31,119 course i've now and the young and the young men. Yeah, and it's 675 00:56:31,159 --> 00:56:36,119 kind of it's almost as though, yeah, that that that that in every 676 00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:44,840 Trollope novel that the central male protagonist is one of these ambitious young men, 677 00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:51,639 you know, not quite an aristocrat, but fairly well educated, respectable, 678 00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:57,519 a gentleman um and um. And he he's seduced by, or allows himself 679 00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:01,679 to be seduced by, this kind of world of glittering prizes, the vanity 680 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:07,800 fair um. And often he's kind of pulled in two directions. You know, 681 00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:14,239 he recognizes that this world is you know, is not very substantial and 682 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,559 isn't going to bring him any lasting satisfaction, and he sort of starts from 683 00:57:16,559 --> 00:57:22,000 self loathing because he allows himself to be seduced by it. Um. And 684 00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:24,679 that's often represented by a conflict with choice between two women. There's the kind 685 00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:31,199 of good, simple, kind of country mouse um. Who who's who's in 686 00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:35,599 love with him? Um? And then and then and then there's then there's 687 00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:42,559 the kind of there's the ambitious, ruthless um female socialite what we call him 688 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,679 girl today, who he's initially dazzled by, but who clearly is not going 689 00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:51,480 to make him happy um. And without wishing to give away any spoilers, 690 00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:54,000 by the end of the books, he usually chooses the nice, pure hearted 691 00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:00,639 that's such they are ultimately formulate pot boilers. But he's just got he's got 692 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:06,880 an engaging way, hasn't he that that he's got a great turn of phrase, 693 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,280 And he's he's very good at drawing these characters and making you care about 694 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,719 them, isn't it sort of they come off the page, they leap out 695 00:58:12,719 --> 00:58:15,320 of them, leap fine. Spin is the one that I'm mini. Yeah, 696 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:22,039 yeah, there's there's a bit too much politics in it. But but 697 00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:24,400 but but it's clear that by this stage. And it's good because you know 698 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:30,239 that Trollop when he was younger, he wanted to be an MP, and 699 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:36,559 he ended up campaigning to become an MP and spent something like four hundred pounds 700 00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:39,880 which was presumably an awful lot of money in those days, campaigning to get 701 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,920 this Northern seat, which he didn't win. And I think it gave him 702 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:49,599 a quite quite a jaded view of politics and election agents and how just just 703 00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:55,199 pointless the whole system was that previously he had admired. But yes, I 704 00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:02,039 wanted to just castigate you briefly for one of your semi recommends from last week 705 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:08,599 This is life. I'll never get back that I spent watching that crappy the 706 00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:20,800 Afghanistan movie about the Guy Richie, a Guy Richie film like ot work nant. 707 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,280 Yeah, yeah, he didn't like it. Well, the thing is 708 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:29,719 once you once you make the heroic journey and go down the rabbit hole, 709 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:36,719 you you start realizing how propagandistic so much of the crap that comes out of 710 00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,639 Hollywood is. So you could see what the purpose of this film was. 711 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:45,880 It was it was one trying to give the completely false impression that there was 712 00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:51,320 anything good about America's involvement in Afghanistan, there was anything noble about it, 713 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,440 they were achieving anything useful. And secondly, it was it was it said, 714 00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:59,559 it might have been written on there, we need to make sure that 715 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:07,639 more or aga Afghan immigrants come into the West in the form of interpreters who've 716 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,639 heroically served our forces. And it was like it was like a sort of 717 01:00:10,679 --> 01:00:15,880 advert for a cause. And that's how these films get their get their budgets, 718 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:20,519 to get their support from the military, et cetera. It's it's there, 719 01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:23,199 they're they're just propaganda. But it wasn't. It wasn't propaganda, was 720 01:00:23,239 --> 01:00:31,559 it because it really condemned the US in particular for not honoring their promise to 721 01:00:31,719 --> 01:00:38,000 these Afghan interpreters that they would blame the bureaucracy. Residential visas blame the bureaucracy, 722 01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:42,400 not the military or the politicians. Well, yes, it blames. 723 01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:47,639 It blames the bureaucracy in order to generate an anger within the viewer, which 724 01:00:47,679 --> 01:00:52,320 then translates into calls for more. Is this is how it works, like 725 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:57,320 like sort of pressure that we've got to have more open borders, We've got 726 01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,239 to have like we shouldn't we shouldn't be asking questions, which is just letting 727 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,039 let them all in, let them all in. So I think it would 728 01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:07,280 be very very much suited to, for example, the Biden regime, which 729 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,599 is which takes that view about everything. Just then I thought that, you 730 01:01:09,639 --> 01:01:16,519 know it was it was essentially criticizing the Biden regime for abruptly withdrawing from Afghanistan, 731 01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:23,480 leaving an arsenal of valuable military equipment behind. I didn't get that message 732 01:01:23,559 --> 01:01:27,440 those who'd help them. I didn't get the message at all. And also 733 01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:34,079 I just thought, yeah, I thought the Taliban were just like painted as 734 01:01:34,159 --> 01:01:38,719 these sort of they were and incompetent at the same time they were they were 735 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:43,199 cannon fodder. But they were really nasty cannon fodder in whose deaths you were 736 01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:47,000 invited to rejoice. And I was thinking, actually, I think if my 737 01:01:47,159 --> 01:01:52,400 country had been invaded on a false pretext like Afghanistan was, I think I 738 01:01:52,519 --> 01:01:57,079 might have joined the Taliban. Actually, I think I can see you actually 739 01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:00,159 with with with the kind of beard and the mustache, wearing the the white 740 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:10,760 robes and having in my Toyota cruiser. Yeah yeah, yeah, absolutely, 741 01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,880 with my technicals they're called on there with one of the machine guns on the 742 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,119 back. Yeah, I'd probably been very good at that. And I hope, 743 01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:21,880 by the way, they're looking after Lord Myles Routledge, the young adventurer 744 01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:28,159 Chap is being imprisoned by the Taliban. It is the champion just goes to 745 01:02:28,239 --> 01:02:36,400 danger zones, right, Okay, yeah, yeah, I think But the 746 01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:43,079 Taliban the nicest inasmuch as the I mean, they're all obviously infiltrated by the 747 01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:46,119 CIA, so you don't know who's who. But yeah, um, anyway, 748 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:50,719 um, that was it. I just thought it was just bollocks. 749 01:02:50,719 --> 01:02:52,760 I wouldn't recommend it. Okay, all right, we'll disagree about that. 750 01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:59,840 When have you seen anything you like? You wrote about the the bicycling documentary 751 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:01,639 on Netflix. I saw in the Spectator but we talk. Yeah, I 752 01:03:01,679 --> 01:03:08,559 watched the tennis one. I watched the updated so I know that Jokovic beat 753 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:17,239 the angry Australian who's quite fun. Last year. Okay, Wimbledon. Oh 754 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:22,519 I did see something, James I'm now remembering. I went and saw the 755 01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:28,320 latest Indiana Jones movie, fifteen year Old Sign. He's an Indiana genter fan. 756 01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:32,400 It was it was a multimedia screening and actually was quite good. Really, 757 01:03:34,119 --> 01:03:37,639 I quite like I quite like that franchise. I didn't like the last 758 01:03:37,679 --> 01:03:39,679 one, but you know, I like the first one. I quite like 759 01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:45,320 the second one. And of course it's slightly odd that you know, this 760 01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:51,400 eighty year old geezer is playing an action hero, even odder than seeing Schwartzeneger 761 01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:57,880 play an action hero in Foo Bar and clearly you know the I think Harrison 762 01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,239 Ford is now eighty. I don't know if he was eighty when he made 763 01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:04,719 picture, but they have to use some quite creative CGI to kind of have 764 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:11,239 him kind of, you know, um do his action hero stunts. Um. 765 01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,880 But he has and he and his sort of main his main sort of 766 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,559 partner in crime as a as a as a young woman who you know is 767 01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:21,400 implausibly good at knocking out kind of fully grown men and fighting off hordes of 768 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:26,480 bad guys, but some of them. But it's quite cartoonish, so you 769 01:04:26,519 --> 01:04:29,320 can kind of suspend disbelief about that. Almost takes a leaf out of the 770 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,239 kind of John wu school of filmmaking, in which you know, you're not 771 01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:39,119 supposed to take it seriously. And but it but it's um that some of 772 01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:44,119 the kind of set pieces, the set piece action sequences, like the chase 773 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,280 sequences and so forth in the film, they're about three extended set pieces are 774 01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:54,559 really good, really well choreographed. Thrillingly. What era is it setting? 775 01:04:55,599 --> 01:05:00,280 It's set well, interestingly, it's set in the It's set in um eineteen 776 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:06,000 sixty nine, right to the moon landings, um and and it does it 777 01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:10,280 doesn't. It does sort of contain a there's a kind of Von what was 778 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:15,800 he? What was Von Brown? Character? He's the main villain, and 779 01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:19,199 he's making up these landings. I mean, I know, not because of 780 01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:25,199 about no he's he's thought to have genuinely helped Americans land someone on the moon, 781 01:05:25,679 --> 01:05:28,480 but he's um, he's doing it for kind of he's got this other 782 01:05:28,519 --> 01:05:30,719 agenda. He's trying to get hold of this kind of ancient artifact which will 783 01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:35,679 enable him to travel back in time to a crucial period. What he wants 784 01:05:35,679 --> 01:05:38,880 to do is he wants to travel, which is maybe it's a bit of 785 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,559 a spoiler, so I won't I won't tell you, but he's thought of 786 01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:45,679 a way to enable Germany to win the Second World War if he can get 787 01:05:45,719 --> 01:05:50,880 hold of this time traveling ancient artifact invented by Archimedes Um. So that kind 788 01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,280 of that's the mcguffin. The film is all about, you know, the 789 01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,840 battle to get hold of this artifact, and then at the end they do 790 01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:01,079 travel back in time. So basically they've shoehorned shoehorned in Nazis because this is 791 01:06:01,079 --> 01:06:06,639 basically Operation paper Clip, because you know Operation paper Clip, don't you. 792 01:06:08,239 --> 01:06:14,760 All these these many of the key Nanzwers were basically assimilated into American society, 793 01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:19,280 Indian American establishment, be they rocket scientists like von Brown or whatever. They're 794 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:25,559 all given sort of new identities and absorbed into the system. So that, 795 01:06:26,039 --> 01:06:30,199 yeah, that's so the world is full of Nanzers and and I suppose that's 796 01:06:30,239 --> 01:06:34,639 what the film is telling you, it's slightly it's revelation of the method is 797 01:06:34,639 --> 01:06:39,840 it's known as I don't think so. I think they're just they're just because 798 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:45,960 it's almost like reboot and an Marge to all the other Indiana Jones films. 799 01:06:46,119 --> 01:06:49,679 So they needed to bring Nazis in somehow, even though you know, Harrison 800 01:06:49,719 --> 01:06:54,719 Ford has clearly aged forty years since the first one was made. But they 801 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,960 couldn't. They couldn't bring it up to the present because you know, it'd 802 01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:02,079 be dead or it'd be dead. So because the first one set, you 803 01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:05,079 know, during the Second World War or on the eve of the Second World 804 01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:10,320 War. So um, so I think they had to kind of inject a 805 01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:14,039 Nazi into the plot and make it all about the Second World War again by 806 01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:15,960 hook or by crook, And they've done back quite well anyway. I thought 807 01:07:16,039 --> 01:07:18,920 James Mangold, the director, did a good job. It's pretty entertaining immediately 808 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:24,000 two hours and twenty minutes, a bit too long, but still quite fun. 809 01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:29,840 Modest recommendation from me, I see well, I'm good. Um, 810 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,960 well, I'll see you next week. I guess okay, all right, 811 01:07:34,039 --> 01:07:59,920 James, bye everybody. By yeah it's London. Fully Ricochet joined the conversation