WEBVTT

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Today, I want to tell you
about a journey that I've been on for

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most of my life. Ever since
I was a kid, I've heard tales

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of bigfoot and wild men while spending
time with my friends and family. As

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I grew older and read more about
the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and

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other things strange only deepened. That's
why I'm so excited to share with you

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what I've personally become involved with the
Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network

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is a live streaming podcast network that
airs a new show every day across all

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podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all

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sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and

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much more. I even have my
own show called Weird Encounters, where I

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talk about all things strange. This
is more than just a podcast network.

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It's a community that allows me to
meet so many amazing people who share their

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stories and experiences with strange. If
you're interested in hearing more of these stories

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and learning more about the paranormal and
encryptids, make sure you check out the

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Untold Radio Network for all kinds of
exciting shows. It's free to subscribe.

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So what are you waiting for visit
www dot untold radionetwork dot com today.

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Now, what are your reporting?
I got a screen going on here.

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Something just kid with my dog,
something to kill your dog? My dog.

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We're flying through there over the tree. I don't know how it did

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it? Okay, damn, I'm
really confused. All I saw was my

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dog coming over the fence and name
was dead once you hit the grill.

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I didn't see any cars. All
I saw was my dog coming over the

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fence. Sat, what are you
reporting? We got some wonder or something

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crawling around out here? Did you
see what it was? It was enough

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out here. Look, I'm new
to the window now and I don't need

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anything. I don't want to go
outside. Hello, hit the buddy out

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here? What quin? I'm out
there? I thought of a bit of

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about T nine. I don't know. Easy ann out there? Yeah,

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I'm walking right a heady, get
there, and thanks so much for joining

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me for the show. I decided
to go back into the archives and pull

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out episode fifty seven, which originally
aired back in August of twenty twenty one.

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I had Paul Eno on the show. Paul was a prolific paranormal investigator

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looking into all things strange, including
Bigfoot. Paul worked closely with Ed and

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Lorraine Warren back in the seventies on
some of their most well known cases.

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Sadly, Paul passed away on April
fifth of this year, so I decided

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to go back and remaster his original
episode and re air it for you guys

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here today as a true tribute to
Paul, his work and his life.

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We start off talking about some of
his work with Ed and Lorraine Warren back

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in the seventies, and we end
up getting into some of the bigfoot investigations

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he did in the Pennsylvania Triangle,
and he also shares his own personal experience

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with bigfoot. I hope you enjoyed
this remastered version of Paul's original interview.

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Rest in peace, my friend.
All that's left for you to do is

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sit back, relax, and enjoy
the show. Welcome to the show,

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Paul. Thank you very much.
Brian. I'm glad to have you.

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I've wanted to talk to you for
quite some time. I heard you over

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on Doug high Check show. I
really appreciate you being with us. I

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know you've been in this paranormal field
for five decades now. Some people obviously

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know who you are, but for
those that don't, if you would take

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us back to what got you interested
in the paranormal in the beginning? What

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got you said on this path that
you've been on for five decades. I

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guess it's a kind of unusual explanation, and a very unpleasant one. In

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nineteen sixty one, at the age
of seven, I was witnessed to my

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father's suicide. My parents had a
mixed marriage, and my father was serf

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of garden writing Protestant. My mother
was a strict Roman Catholic. They had

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me in the strict Roman Catholic school. But in those days in the Roman

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Catholic Church, if you had a
hot dog on Friday or committed suicide,

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you went straight to Hell. That
really confused me, Harry. I am

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in the second grade. The Sisters
of Mercy you can believe the name of

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you want, but they were either
a faint or potential actions murderers in my

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experience, and I have fortunately one
of the Saints as my second grade teacher.

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I went to her and I said, my father was a good man.

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I don't know really what happened then, How would I at that age

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did he go to Hell. Essentially, she said in so many words,

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God, I think is bigger than
all that that got me through at least,

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but that it could under the circumstances. All along through the rest of

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my childhood and into fteen years,
I wondered, where is my father?

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The Catholics still have, although they
don't talk a bunch about it, this

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doctrine of purgatory, so that if
you're not quite good enough to go to

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heaven, not quite bad enough to
go to Hell, you've got a purgatory

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for a certain period to be purged, and then you can go to heaven.

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Now, starting at the age of
fourteen, I entered the seminary to

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study for the priesthood. Always in
the back of my mind was about my

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dad. I wondered, is it
possible? And we didn't study this stuff,

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especially not at that level in the
seminary, And could all these ghosts

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and things that we hear about in
all cultures throughout history everywhere be stoles and

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purgatory, earth bound spirit and all
that didness? That was a working theory

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when I went on my first case
in nineteen seventy, and that lasted really

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for two years because they had to
travel somewhat to get there. It was

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an abandoned village, and I ran
into things that didn't even seem to be

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dead at all, never mind in
purgatory. Right off the bat, I

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started to revise my theories. But
what did happen at that point was I

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wrote an article about this, and
Lorraine Warren, of all people, read

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it, and she thought this purgatory
thing was a fabulous idea. So that's

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how I got to know them,
and she invited me down to dinner,

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and I worked with them for six
years. So that was interesting. But

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that was the only result of the
purgatory theory. None of the old theories

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made sense as soon as I really
got started. That's how I began.

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Let's talk a little bit about that
first case back in nineteen seventy in the

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abandoned village. What did you find
there? In your research? It was

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called locally the Village of Voices,
because there was no village left. It

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was all over growing. I had
been found that just before the Revolutionary War

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had died out about in the eighteen
nineties when they had little mill, and

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that they couldn't keep up with the
competition from neighboring areas with the textiles and

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things, although they made spinning wheel
so they didn't last. Pat the eighteen

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ninety there was an article in the
Hertford Current. I was in Connecticut and

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the Hertford Current had an article about
display with an old man by the name

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of Harry Chase. Was a local
historian and he'd been running around that area

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since the nineteen forties with his old
box camera taking pictures and coming up with

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these really weird things in the photo
streaks and weird lights and all the other

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thing. So I said, this
sounds interesting. Why don't I test out

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this theory? So I conned a
couple of my classmates up to seminary into

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going with me, obviously without the
knowledge of the faculty. When they did

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find out they weren't too fleefd.
This fellow Chase, I wrote to him

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and he agreed to take us out
there, So we went out. By

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the time we finished our researching that
going to the actual site, it was

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August of seventy one, and we
picked them up, brought them out there,

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and we found a completely overgrown area
with some trails and some stellar holes

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where the houses had been, and
a little cemetery on a hill right above

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where the houses were. Things started
to happen immediately. Now very often,

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I'm finding with the cases they'd have
to get used to the chemical mix of

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you being there and some things that
might not occur right away. But as

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soon as we walked into the woods
here there were no bugs. This is

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a hot hum in August state.
No bugs, no birds. The only

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sounds that we heard were the sounds
of what sounded like daily life for someone

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else. You could hear dogs,
market cows, mooing, people talking,

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you could hear farm implement metal things
banging together. We set about to be

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very systematic. We just mapped the
whole place and then all this sort of

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stuff to make sure we knew what
was where and where we were going and

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what we were doing. And we
found out that the nearest habitation was a

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four inch camp up the road about
a half mile, and nobody was there,

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so there was no reason for all
these sounds. By the time the

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evening came around, we were over
by the seller Hooles and we're just doing

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some observations down by the Nightingale brook
below that where their mill had been,

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and all of a sudden we heard
the laughter of children. It didn't sound

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creepier, and it just sounded like
a bunch of kids, but it was

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moving in a very odd manner,
very quickly, up and down this brook.

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This was my first introductions to the
odd spatial relationships that sometimes take place

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when you're in touch with what I
now call a world boundary or an overwash.

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My son and I had to invent
a whole glossy of terms just to

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talk about our weird concept on this
stuff, because we don't buy any of

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the old theories. A long time
ago, I rejected that. So these

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children are up and down and we
all heard it thick to us. We

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attempted to record now now. Our
high tech year for the time included the

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casette tape recorder, a couple of
Kodak instamatic cameras which were high TechEd for

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the time, and a bunch of
notepad, flag lights and walkie talking knowledge.

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These sounds would not record, but
I laughed, today, everybody's to

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the electronic voice phenomenar EVPs. This
was a VP in reverse. We heard

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it, but it wouldn't record.
But that was just one of the initial

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things that happened that gets weird.
This involved several expeditions a little about sixty

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miles from where I lived in the
heart Rod area and near the town in

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the town of Pomfret, Connecticut,
up in the northwest corner. So it

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involved several trips. One of the
other things that occurred on the second trip

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in October, we invited a man
who worked at the United Technologists Corporation in

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East Hartford. Game. We brought
him specifically because he didn't believe any of

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it, right down to a fellow, very serious minded. He's the one

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to whom all the weirdest things happened. For example, by this time we

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had been there, everybody was well
mapped and we knew where everything was.

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Even at night, we had spotlight
them all. So we decided to have

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up to the cemetery from This was
October, so it was pretty dark,

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and we got to the place where
the cemetery should have been and it wasn't

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there. All of a sudden,
the guy, he was in his mid

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thirties, he had stopped and he
said he couldn't move, and several of

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us when and we literally told him
he could not move forward, he could

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not move to the left, but
he could move voluntarily. The phenomenon where

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some of his rootage of the spot
because of an electrical charge and that sort

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of thing. Then all of a
sudden he began to sob leaned over onto

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his walking stick, cried, hey
again, you had to know this guy.

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It was not him. All of
a sudden we heard the muttering only

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about fifteen feet to our left in
the director. We were facing where the

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cemetery should have been. And you
know how you can hear people, a

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group of men talking, which in
English, but you really can't understand what's

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being said. That was what this
was. I was afraid the guy was

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having a heart attack. These are
the days before cell phones, and we

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were on our own. We might
have lived in the Gobi desert. I

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said, this is not going to
work. So we pulled back and he

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was able to move with us.
He said later when we were debriefing,

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that he felt as if that by
something positive that convinced him that we should

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not go to the cemetery that night. But he felt that he was a

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ruin it for everybody else. That
was really strange, and our theories today,

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if I knew then what I think
I know now and it can't be

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sure, is that We may have
been the first ghost scene in that cemetery,

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not because of anybody being dead,
but because of time space and quantum

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mechanics. The multiversal approach that we
take that I found early on was the

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only thing that really explained any So
I think it's possible that the men who

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were muttering perhaps us or perceived our
present sars in some form, because from

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day one, when that cemetery was
established, there were rumors of ghosts there.

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The local history records that people would
not go to that teary at night.

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It was the late seventeen hundred eighteen
hundred because of quote ghost scene reclining

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in the branches of a certain elm
tree. And what do we get in

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one of our first pictures there what
looks like a ghost orclining on the branch

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of an elm tree. Well over
one hundred years later or almost, these

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are the first impressions I got when
we heard those children laugh. And I

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didn't dare breathe a word of this
because I would have been out the door

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of the seminary before I actually was. Eventually I was throwing out lot me

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a parentormal work, but that took
the nineteen seventy seven. When I heard

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those trips, I knew who some
of them were. I was very curious

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about my Catholic spirituality. I would
not even admit it to myself, but

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I knew in my mind who some
of them were. I later found out

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that I'm rather closely related to the
people who lived there, the Randall family.

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Eno doesn't sound like it, but
it's an old Connecticut Yankee name,

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And we just crawled out onto the
shores of New England with the first lungfish

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and sat there and marrying all the
prominent families sin So that whether that was

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something that was relevant, I don't
know, but it later led Ben my

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son to work with me, because
I was interested in the blood relationships and

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whether people have the same stimuli.
I respond the same way to this thing

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stimuli in the kinda paranormal situation.
So probably one of the weirdest things that

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happened was toward the end of the
second expedition in November shipt the October Oh,

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there was actually Halloween weekend that wasn't
planned. It just happened. Happened

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to work out that way, So
we're talking November first, nineteen seventy one.

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It was a beautiful sunny Sunday.
We'd all gone to church like dutiful

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feminarians, and then we headed out
to the Logs village. There was all

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of a sudden, it's not only
an oct cart coming toward a down this

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cart path. We were between the
road to the cemetery and where the cellar

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holes. We literally got out of
the path. They figure out o't maybe

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somebody drives thieves of horses as a
hobby or something in a very rural area.

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This thing came by us about fifteen
to twenty feet away, in an

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area that was a very thick place
but had been a road about one hundred

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and fifty years before. We couldn't
see it. We could hear the wooden

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wheels. We could hear the hoof
beats of oxen or wars is, whatever

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they were. We could hear a
guy yelling yeah, and the crack of

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a whip. It was a real
day. And then the guy was just

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doing his work. Now, if
I knew then what I think I might

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know now. I knew who that
guy was. I knew his name was

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Randall. I knew who he was. I couldn't deal with that, so

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I didn't tell the other people but
as I say, if this happened to

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me today, I would run to
influence this event. Now, I was

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an early advocate of the residual haunting
theory, but I rejected that a long

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time ago because I've interacted with these
things and changed them. And the question

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arises, what part of the environment
would these things be recorded on in order

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to be replayed as the theory goes
centuries later or whatever, because everything's different

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in the environment in the world place
like that. You have the stone wall,

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maybe, but you'd have to have
unbelievable amounts of iron oxide if you

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start thinking about a recording, but
that the soil is different, the trees

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are different, and stuff. So
I rejected that a long time ago.

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I think we're dealing with the boundaries
of parallel world where it still is seventeen

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seventy eight, or it still is
eighteen hundred, this sort of thing.

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So I think that looking back on
that, I think, so that's what

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we were dealing with. But that
was a super weird case and it was

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really quite the dramatic introduction to the
field for me. One of the guys

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later, actually two of the guys
later became priests because not everybody stayed as

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we were so young in the seminary
and what they've threw made the heck out,

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But it was really quite the landmark
experience. It definitely sounds like it,

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and I want to certainly get into
and unpack some of your theories on

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these things. There's so many things
I want to talk to you about it.

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I want to get to some UFO
stuff, I want to talk about

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some crypted stuff, but I certainly
want to unpack some of the ghosts the

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paranormal experiences that you have. Let's
fast forward into your work with the Warrens.

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Everybody's familiar with Ed Lorraine Warren from
the Conjuring movies. You actually worked

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with them on some of these cases. I know it gets sensationalized in the

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movies and people think that everything went
down exactly like the movie. That's not

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always the case, right, You
were actually there for some of those cases.

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If you wouldn't mind, would you
take us back to some of those

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00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.519
investigations, what actually happened during those
investigations. Sure, Colly would never really

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get to write. Matter of fact, it's entertainment, not science, So

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people should bear that in mind.
As far as the conjuring case, which

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was the most famous one by which
the Warrens are known. It's interesting today

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I live about ten leaves from there
in Rhode Island. But I think seventy

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seventy one seventy two, just before
Lorraine Warren got in touch with me,

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I was not involved in that case. Amityville, however, was interesting because

250
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I would have been involved. But
I was in the seminary at the other

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end of New York State in seventy
three and seventy four and seventy five,

252
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involved in a lot of other hairy
stuff like exorcisms and all that with a

253
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priest who didn't care about my tender
age, liked the war, and had

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me assisting him at a state hospital
there. But Lorraine wrote me letters during

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that cade. They weren't my only
mentors. I had mentors from the church,

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even though the faculty wasn't too crazy
about what I was doing. Louisa,

257
00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.400
Ryane Joseph and Louis A being the
founders of modern parapsychology in America.

258
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She was very interested in children and
wasn't too interested in the purgatory theory.

259
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:42.400
But father John Nicola, who had
the very anonymous job of assistant director of

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the National Shrine of the Imaculate Conception. Now today, if you watch the

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news from Washington, UNI, there's
a background maybe the capital, but up

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in the corner there in the northwest
part of the city, you might see

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this giant dome and this big spire. That's the National Shrine of the Maculate

264
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Concept. He was assistant director that
Father Nicola. Now, my brother had

265
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been ordained with the priests in nineteen
sixty three. He ended up on the

266
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faculty of the seminary right across the
street from that big church. So he

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knew Father Nicola, and he reduced
us. He might have had regrets about

268
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doing so, but Father Nicola was
the technical advisor for the film The Exorcist,

269
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which came on in seventy three.
I went to Washington a lot.

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I would always spend time with Father
Nicola. Now we didn't work in the

271
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existence together around but we correspond a
lot, and he would give me advice

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00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.920
and say, don't worry about the
you know. In any case, he

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said that the Amityville case was a
hulk all right. Now, the Warrians

274
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.160
were not the only ones involved in
the amity Ville case. There were lots

275
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of investigative press and all kinds of
people that it was in a real circus.

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And I always stress too that I
did not work with them on that

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case. I only worked with them
until nineteen seventy eight, which was early

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on in their careers and the eighties
and nineties that really took off. So

279
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I knew them early on, and
I know several people like John's office.

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He was on our show yesterday,
an Orthodox priest who would have worked with

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them before he was a brief.
So they worked with the Warrens later on.

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But it was always interesting Edward handoff
cases to me that he didn't have

283
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time for or wasn't that interested in, and so that's how I got so

284
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saw in my earlier cases. But
they even went to that Comfort, Connecticut

285
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site that we talked about initially,
they didn't really do much here. I

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guess they ran into a copperhead Nike
and the Lorraine thought the retreat was the

287
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.839
better part of Valor. But interestingly, Harry Chase, he didn't like the

288
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Warrens eating. I never had any
reason to believe that the Lowrens were doing

289
00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.680
anything they should in the begining.
This is early on, probably the most

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important case I worked with them on
was in the Bridge Fort Poltergeist matter of

291
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.839
nineteen seventy four. I know,
I think Ed had a very good bedside

292
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.599
manner with people. It's not quite
as it is in the movie because he's

293
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:53.519
in the dashing, dapper couple like
the actor. One of the things I

294
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didn't really agree with was that he
called the press in among the first things.

295
00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.359
What would be the purpose of that? And he said people had me

296
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.480
to learn about this stuff, you
know, I accepted that. Ironically,

297
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.519
after I was thrown out of the
seminary, I ended up a reporter.

298
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I ended up a journalist because the
only other thing I knew how to do

299
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was write. In the Bridge Sport
case, I was totally unprepared. I

300
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:19.799
came down from the seminary to come
home to Connecticut for Thanksgiving, and Lorraine

301
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.920
in writing me down for dinner the
previous Sunday before Thanksgiving, and you didn't

302
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.079
turn down the meal cooked by Lorraine
tremendous book. So I drive in there

303
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.799
their houses at the end of a
cul de sac at the Lorraine lived the

304
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.079
rest of her life there. And
Lorraine came leaping out the door. Are

305
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.920
you in a high spiritual state right? Now and the fact that I was

306
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.160
in a hipic spiritual state because I
was trying to decide whether to leave the

307
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Roman Catholic Church and join the Eastern
Orthodox Church. So now I went down

308
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.039
with that, and Lorraine stayed there
and waited for Father Bill Charboneau, who

309
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.240
was a priest who became so famous
in this case that people would write Father

310
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Bill Bridgeport, Connecticut, he get
it. He was so well known.

311
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:02.000
From this we went down to the
house to the story of the poltergeist cases

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00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:04.640
is well told in the William J. Hall's book The World Most Hearted House.

313
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I think you can expect a movie
about it before too long. I'm

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00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.079
not always in the good graces of
the Warren Camp because I criticized them from

315
00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.880
time to time, and that that's
not permitted. I don't know if I'll

316
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.839
even be involved, but we'll just
see what happened. But anyway, in

317
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:23.359
Bill Hall's book The World's Most Sounted
House, the case is very well be

318
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:30.400
told. I'm really the only deriving
major witness to this. The family have

319
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.680
all gone and including Marshi the little
girl. Very sad story there that the

320
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:38.480
only other people left are a bunch
of retired cops that when they're eating they

321
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.559
never retracted their stories, and the
police's records are there about the offices going

322
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:48.759
out and seeing furniture lifting up and
flying around and this sort of thing.

323
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We were there for the better part
of three days, we being the Warren's

324
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.440
father villain myself. It was very
exhausting. Ed got depressed, stirred up.

325
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.920
So there were all kinds of crowds
outside the house popped to two or

326
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.559
three thousand people according to the media. If you want me to hit the

327
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:08.640
highlight, the scariest things, Brian, are not necessarily the phenomena that can

328
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:12.000
be bad enough, But the scariest
things are the things that smash your belief

329
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:17.279
system. I'd been questioning everything since
this Pomfert case, which had only been

330
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.480
a few years before. On the
Monday night of the case, the Warrens

331
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:25.559
left. I'd been hit rather harshly
in the leg by a TV set that

332
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.200
had turned over on its own and
knocked a little girl and I across the

333
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:33.319
kitchen the previous night. So the
Warrens left to do a TV interview and

334
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.119
I was in the house pretty much
with just the family, which is Laura,

335
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.160
Jerry Gooden and their adopted daughter,
Marthy. There was a reporter,

336
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.640
John Sopgo from the Bridgeport Post,
and there was a neighbor that was it

337
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.599
Marcy. For some reason, the
ten year old kid loved to play Monopoly,

338
00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.319
so we were playing Monopoly in the
corner. And I'd gotten the impressions

339
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.519
from the minute they walked into this
place that they were for entity. Now

340
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:57.680
the Warrens, that we didn't quessure
that they were demon Okay, I was

341
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.720
in the seminary. We would interp
for it, and a father bill of

342
00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:06.319
court the same way. But something
wasn't right. It was like Coomfort case

343
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:11.359
all over again, because it didn't
seem like these explanations were good enough for

344
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.160
what I was seeing and feeling.
So this really came home again on this

345
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:21.039
Monday evening when I was in there
and the kitchen filled with the energy,

346
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.839
and you can almost feel. Four
entities came down the hallway. You get

347
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.720
almost say, again, see these
translucent go out of the structures. One

348
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.440
of them came and stood right in
front of me, And this is where

349
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:37.480
I learned you don't get annoyed,
fearful or angry in the face of these

350
00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:40.480
things, because they feed on it. Because and here's where I got the

351
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:44.079
idea that these are parasite. I
think you could even trace the old stories

352
00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:47.680
of vampires to these because of what
did the ancient Snarians call these things?

353
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.319
They call them lighte fucking ghosts and
then thinks exactly what they do. So

354
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.039
this thing got stronger, and I
knew it was after the little girl.

355
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.920
I put her behind me, and
just out of intinct, I pushed again.

356
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:04.440
It pushed back. This thing Brian
had a physical body. It had

357
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.559
bone structure, even though you could
see let right through it. This threw

358
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.559
me for ale because of these things. By definition, the demons are supposed

359
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.440
to be spirit. I'm suppoth to
have body at least as we have a

360
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.880
stand them and stay tuned for more
sasquatch out to sea. We'll be right

361
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:26.200
back after these messages. And this
thing took advantage that got around me,

362
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.440
threw Marcia across the room. At
that point, it's not like the police

363
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.839
was going to explode, so I
said, we're leaving. Fortunately, the

364
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.519
police had walked off the street both
and Lindley Street at both ends of the

365
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.359
block, and we didn't walk out
in the middle of a crowd that would

366
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:45.119
have been just chaos. So we
did that, and of course still no

367
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.640
cell phones in nineteen seventy seventy four. So I ran next door, called

368
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.039
the Warrens that something apparently followed me
and knocked on the door after I went

369
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.559
in. Took them an hour to
get to ten miles from Monroe, Connecticut

370
00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:02.400
to Bridgeport to where they lived because
of all the crowds and traffic that this

371
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.359
had caused, so they came back. Everything had calmed down by then.

372
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:08.960
We went back into the house the
people. The radio was still on and

373
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.079
they were speculating why we had left
the house. The next day is when

374
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.119
everything started to fall apart. I
had to go home and take a shower,

375
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:19.920
and I lived about fifty miles away. The warrants went to their house

376
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:22.880
too, and we were going to
meet back at two o'clock at the good

377
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.079
home. The little girl hugged me
and said that please promise you'll come back.

378
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:32.160
Missus Gooden did the same thing.
Please promise you'll come back, and

379
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:33.880
I said, we've been back about
two block presentment by right back. At

380
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.519
two o'clock that afternoon, a police
officer was standing at the door and Missus

381
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.960
Goodon came out looked at me and
said, the officer throw him off our

382
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.079
property. So so what was going
on? And I had heard on the

383
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.960
radio that the police had declared the
case to be a hope. I was

384
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.000
listening with the radio in the car
and wait, some of those confused here.

385
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:55.000
So I went to the warrant's house. They were there. We had

386
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:59.440
a council of war, so to
speak, and the police apparently the city

387
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.960
was tied up the not they wanted
it over and they declared that the kid

388
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.720
had did it. As soon as
we had left on Tuesday, they went

389
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:07.640
into the house, stat the family
down and told them this is how it's

390
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.799
going to be, because that'd the
very idea that this ten year old kid

391
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.480
could throw huge arm chairs and things
around with the flick of a finger in

392
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:22.200
front of trained observers like police officers, firefighters and journalists preposterous. Three of

393
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.480
the cops and three of the firefighters
that stood there with be watched the refrigerator

394
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.160
flow in the kitchen. All their
reports were never changed that they had seen

395
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.160
things of this kind. I have
copies of the reports today. Ed Warren

396
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.680
gone them for that essentially had that
was the weirdest for work done with them,

397
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.960
because now it's pretty well known.
Ed and I were on the radio

398
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.880
for two days going back and forth
fighting with the cops, call in shows

399
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.640
and things that people would call in, so it just didn't make sense.

400
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.759
Finally, in January, I was
back at the seminary the Goods that were

401
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.920
actually on the radio and said that
they denied that Marcy had done anything.

402
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.000
They agreed with us. So it
was really quite the show. And I'm

403
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.400
sure it's going to be a movie
sooner or later. But I would recommend

404
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.640
Bill Hall's book if anybody's interested.
So what was the resolution? Did they

405
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.440
continue to have these issues or did
you guys just have to walk away and

406
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.279
not follow up anymore after that happened? Well, yes, answer the case,

407
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.240
the Bridgeport case. At least what
Ed heard and told me was that

408
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:22.759
the girl was taken to the Fairfield
Hills State Hospital and one of the those

409
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:29.319
famous state hospitals that people investigate today
but it's now mercifully closed, and that

410
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.519
the phenomena occurred there. I believe
that because I worked in the state hospital

411
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.880
with a bree not that one,
a different one. The staff and the

412
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.279
doctors were witnessed all sorts of things
that led to egoism. Now, the

413
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.480
folks from what was then the Duke
University Parasite Lab came in. I knew

414
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.920
some of them, and Keith Ferrari
told me later on that the stories they

415
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.920
found from witnesses they were able to
contact, and people were thinking so many

416
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.759
things in so many different places that
none of it made ben. He said.

417
00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.240
They didn't even write an in the
house report on it went down without

418
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.880
the too much fanfare, just followed
up by contact the dead had in the

419
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.799
police and in the community who had
heard things and would report them to what

420
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.440
later on. But they later sold
the house the good and family did and

421
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.240
nothing has ever happened since then.
As far as we've been able to find

422
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:17.839
out. People are shocked by the
size of this place. It's a little

423
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.839
tiny bungalow on the side Street and
Bridgeport, Connecticut. It's really only three

424
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.400
rooms. There was a big living
room, big bird house pat Tide,

425
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.079
and then the two bedrooms and the
kitchen, and then a basement. One

426
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:36.079
of the artists the aspects of this
case too. Brian was alleged to talking

427
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.839
Cat. One of the things you
might look at today as a precursor to

428
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:44.960
Boltergeist. Cases. This little girl
being held essentially prisoner in this house after

429
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:51.279
having been what today we would call
bullied at school and really overprotective parents.

430
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:53.920
Ed had told me to keep an
eye on her to make sure she wasn't

431
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.359
doing any of these things. So
I was with her a lot, and

432
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.519
she told me that this cat Samn
as our only friend, but that he

433
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.559
could talk. I wasn't born yesterday, but I see the weird stuff,

434
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:10.559
but never a talking cat. But
then mister Gooden said that the kid was

435
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:14.240
right. He said that cat went
to the vet for an operation, came

436
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.400
back and mister Gooden, who was
a very as salt of the earth kind

437
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.759
of guy, worked in a factory, and he said that the cat would

438
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.599
come to the top of the cellar
stairs, pound on the door and said

439
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.519
and say, quote, let me
out, you dirty Frenchman, you dirty

440
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:32.759
rat unquote, So the cat to
prejudice against the Frenchman. This is what

441
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:34.720
the guys said. And I have
to tell you, Brian, I think

442
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.400
one of the weirdest things I've ever
seen. You have to bear in mind,

443
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.519
this isn't that far from New York
City at the time, yet,

444
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.799
ABC, NBCCDA, they all said, Network reporters up to the house.

445
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.720
We let him in. I'll never
forget the site of major network reporters from

446
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.759
these three networks holding a microphone up
to the cat and bagging Interstaceum. You

447
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.519
can't make that up, can you? You couldn't. But yeah, I

448
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.880
saw plenty of the refrigerator and I
stopped flipping around hit by the TV stad

449
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:04.680
And I was there when the famous
bird and appeared in Lorraine Warren hand.

450
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:10.200
I was sitting there across the table
with Sunday night, twenty fourth of November,

451
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.079
and there was a police officer there, there was a reporter, and

452
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:17.160
this whole thing is on paid because
Ed was was being interviewed and you can

453
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:22.000
hear my youthful voice in the background. After Lorraine kind of went ooh,

454
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.480
and I said, there's a blister
forming, And there was a second they

455
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:27.200
read burn blister forming on her hand
and nobody was smoking. There was no

456
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:33.039
heat source. There are rumors I
heard that the little girl confessed to do

457
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:36.160
him. She wasn't even in the
row. It was something that was quite

458
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.920
genuine, and Ed told her he
wanted to r out of that house because

459
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:44.000
he thought spontaneous human combustion could take
place in a house like that, and

460
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.160
she refused to leave. That was
actually quite dramatic, but all legitimate stuff.

461
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:49.599
And I saw it myself and it
skeptics they'll say, oh, how

462
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.519
could that happen in that little house? I said the argument that I always

463
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:56.759
use, that I was there and
you were not, so get older.

464
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:01.440
It was probably the best observed,
best document the Voltergeist case in modern history,

465
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:05.599
if not all of history. So
many witnesses, so there it was.

466
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:07.799
We were thrown out of the case
pretty much by our family. All

467
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.920
we had after that was third hand
information from other people or in a physician.

468
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.839
We thought to know. You mentioned
earlier about exorcisms, and I have

469
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:22.039
to be honest, I'm an agnostic. When it comes to religion. I

470
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.440
struggle and I go back and forth, because I certainly believe that these types

471
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:31.000
of things happen, exorcisms in and
of themselves. Everybody's familiar with the Exorcist

472
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:34.759
movie, and that when you say
exorcism, that's what comes to mind.

473
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.519
If you're an agnostic and you don't
necessarily believe in the sense of heaven and

474
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:43.799
hell and the things that religion teaches
us that are there, I don't necessarily

475
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:49.720
believe that they are demons, but
I do believe that people have had some

476
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:53.279
sort of possession. Are you okay
with talking about some of the cases that

477
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.720
you were involved with that led to
exorcisms. I didn't think that theology was

478
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:01.759
right either. The state hospital,
the Saint Lawrence State Hospital, was in

479
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:06.079
upstate New York, and I think
the Bishop of Burlington, Vermont, who

480
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.559
was my boss I graduated from the
junior college level seminary. I think he

481
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:13.440
didn't like this parent almost I think
he wanted to keep me out of mischief,

482
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:15.920
so he sent me to this seminary
in the middle of nowhere. We

483
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:21.240
called it the tundra up on the
Saint Lawrence River. But he didn't realize

484
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.440
he need to figure on the priest
who lived at the seminary but didn't teach.

485
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.720
He was the Tampa chapelain at the
Saint Lawrence State Hospital, among other

486
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:34.319
things. He was also, unbeknownst
to everybody almost everybody else, the exorcist

487
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.200
for the Diocese of Ogdensburg, New
York. I'd see him in the hallway

488
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.480
and he called me in one day
to his room during the first semester.

489
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.920
He said dynasty and you worked within
Loraene Warren And I said, yes,

490
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:45.599
Father, I do. And a
lot of priests didn't like them, but

491
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.079
he did. He said, we
had a lot of conferences. Eventually he

492
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.799
said, would you be interested in
assisting me with a couple of strange cases

493
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:58.000
at the hospital. I was in
the group that went to the hospital as

494
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:00.680
part of the pastoral training. Anyway, we would visit with the Catholic patients

495
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:02.559
and this sort of thing, and
there are all kinds of people that they

496
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:08.360
weren't all necessarily psychagent pass They were
sometimes the indigent area residents who couldn't afford

497
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.719
any other hospital, and they were
welcomed this one. I did that from

498
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:17.880
day one. And Waurren had talked
to me about been involved in this sort

499
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:21.440
of thing, but I never worked
with them on any of those. And

500
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.960
he tell me all about and he
played the tape for me of the cases

501
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:28.519
and that sort of thing. That
was all pretty weird that I was working

502
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:34.239
with Father Lawrence and it's his first
name was this seventeen year old girl called

503
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.679
Barber, and a lot of these
people have been drug ravaged. You know,

504
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.840
this was not a good time in
the St. Lawrence County, New

505
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:44.159
York. I mean it was the
economy is terrible. A lot of farms

506
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.119
are being foreclosed on, really awful, and a lot of the people couldn't

507
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.320
handle it and ended up, you
know, on drugs or in this hospital

508
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:53.079
or both because of her rage.
We had to get her mother's permission,

509
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:55.840
and her mother in worse shape than
she was. It was a real,

510
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:01.039
real bad situation where I was involved
in se seven exorcisms with them. Several

511
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:05.760
of them are the same people always
involved. There was a doctor, two

512
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.760
nurses, me as an attendant,
and then another guy from the hospital staff

513
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:14.239
who was an attendant, and then
then father in lawn. The case of

514
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:20.000
Barbara was interesting, and because the
romansravic ritual is very stylized and very strictly

515
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:23.000
enforced that the bishop has to give
permission for every single time it's used.

516
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:29.639
Because Father Lawrence being the official exressist, that was not a problem once you

517
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:34.320
had exhausted all medical explanations for what's
going on now that would involve, for

518
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.480
example, the doctors in the hospital
staff witnessing stuff flying off shells on the

519
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.039
other side of the room. Obviously, you can't believe the guys get so

520
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:45.559
diagnosis or any any kind of psychotic
episode for that sort of thing, and

521
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:47.320
that Warren always told me that those
are the things that are happening outside the

522
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.239
person that they couldn't be physically responsible
for. So that was one thing,

523
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:54.400
and then there would be all sorts
of things, and we would have to

524
00:35:54.719 --> 00:36:00.400
fast, go to nass, receives
communion, go to confession, the whole

525
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.519
work in order to even be in
this room. And of course there was

526
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.880
an old wing of the place that
was not well used, and that's where

527
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:09.840
it would be in case that things
get really straight. They did in this

528
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:16.039
first case. There are three actual
exorcisms within the Roman ritual right of exorcism,

529
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.679
done three times. In each case, the priest is supposed to ask

530
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:24.519
what is the name of the demon? Right, and the girl had told

531
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:30.960
me that she believed this name was
hal Father Lawrence said, to see if

532
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.440
you can look that up, because
the days before the Internet, that wasn't

533
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:36.760
so easy. And all I ever
found in any directories or anything was this

534
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.280
family. The guy taught her Harvard. He was some sort of medical professor.

535
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:43.360
No, we never didn't find out
where that came from, but she

536
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.159
said he was an Asian prince,
had been murdered by his own father.

537
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:51.000
And again I came to the conclusion
long ago that these were parasites, not

538
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:53.320
demons in any normal sense of the
word. They'll be what you want them

539
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.639
to be in order to press your
button so they can eat. After the

540
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.360
Bridgeport case, and of the reason, these are just part of nature.

541
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.079
What does the nature have with nature
has lots of mimic whether they be insects

542
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.039
or whatever, And there are lots
of psychic vampires, include a human one.

543
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:12.400
So that's how these things seem to
live. And we came down to

544
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:16.239
about nine different species over the course
of the years as we worked there weather

545
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:21.840
we're against these, So that I
think was what was going on in the

546
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.119
egoism case here. How did it
work? I have never seen and it's

547
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.679
not really believed that these things totally
take over your personality. I think what

548
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:37.880
happens is that these are multiversal creature, if you will, and that they

549
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:42.880
will discover what another term we had
to invent, the identity point. For

550
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.320
the background of that, you have
to get into a little physics, and

551
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:49.440
we've had eminent physicists on the show, including bred allen Wolf, who say

552
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.519
that we're right about at least the
way we interpret how this work. All

553
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:59.519
possible outcomes apparently do exist, all
right, so that we may be looking

554
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:04.559
at a career that really is perfect
in some ways. A perfect elegance does

555
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:08.519
not necessarily set up for our personal
convenience. And whatever conscious does we happen

556
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:13.159
to be expressing doesn't mean that it's
not a perfect creation. I think that

557
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:19.159
when these parasites who were attempting to
eat, they would find someone extremely vulnerable.

558
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:22.639
They see the time and time again, and they would discover where they

559
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:27.920
are, or at least have an
identity with this person at some point somewhere

560
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.079
as someone in the multiverse. That's
really tough to get your head around,

561
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:35.760
but I think that's really how it
worked, Okay, Bearing in mind Einstein's

562
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.559
a special theory of relativity, all
time is really simultaneous. There really is

563
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:43.239
no past, really is no future. It's just a function of our conscious

564
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.840
Everything that ever has existed, everything
that ever will, everything that ever could

565
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:52.199
exists in concrete reality at some point
in the multiverse, and we're spread out

566
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:54.719
over the consciousness. For the viewpoint
of consciousness, were spread out over that

567
00:38:55.079 --> 00:39:00.159
whole multiverse in many different facets and
formed weird stuff crazy, but it seems

568
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:04.239
to be with the physics. Said, then when you have a possession case,

569
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:09.079
that would you have you have a
parasitical entity which has the ability because

570
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:12.880
of the laws of physics. They're
different from world to the world, apparently

571
00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:16.639
to travel and to seek pray as
it were, in these situations, and

572
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.559
that they will do whatever they have
to do to get together what they need

573
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:24.119
to eat during the ritual. It
seemed like this thing was egging us on,

574
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:30.599
feeding upon the sort of negative command
structure that occurs during these rituals.

575
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:35.679
Now, if I'm Lawrence was great, he would calm anything. This weird

576
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:38.639
stuff would happen, and he would
take it in stride, calm everybody down.

577
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:43.920
At one point during that first trip
there, Barbara floated out of the

578
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.400
wheelchair and Leonard the other ten I
never found out of the last name.

579
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:50.840
We weren't allowed to associate outside of
this room. We pushed them back down.

580
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.199
Eventually during the second session that the
nurses had to tie her in with

581
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:58.360
towels and stuff. She didn't so
she wouldn't literally float away. People ask

582
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.239
me what probably the most frightening me, what ever happened to me in this

583
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.960
field was and they had to be
during this eggism. Either wanted to be

584
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:07.480
sure. I'll go all right,
And I would say, Father, how

585
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.079
come we commanded to give a name? It is a pair of demon I

586
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:14.119
was saying at the time, And
how do you know what's to tell you?

587
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:17.800
The correct name? Names give you
power over somebody. What do you

588
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.800
do, Ryan, when somebody tells
you their name, you shake hands?

589
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.199
Right, that's an agreement. You're
not going to collaborate them or whatever.

590
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:29.440
And that they've expressed trust in you
and given them power of you by by

591
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:32.639
giving them the name. So that's
that's the rationale behind this. And I

592
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.559
get that, and well that they're
bound by the power of Christ and the

593
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.199
authority of the Church to tell them
the truth. It's like then, all

594
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.559
right, I bought that. During
the exorcism ritual, he commanded it to

595
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:50.000
tell what's name? And out from
this girl comes this voice I had never

596
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:54.480
heard before and surely wasn't heard saying
chow in my mind. I said,

597
00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:59.719
yeah, this thing somehow must have
picked up on that, and out had

598
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:04.760
come with this language. Now I
wasn't allowed to record this, but the

599
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.880
doctor had a tape recorder. He
had to look it up because he didn't

600
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:10.480
get what the language it was either
he couldn't he couldn't make it out.

601
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:15.679
Turned out it was Melee, Why
Melee? But they the following May,

602
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:19.159
before the school year, ran them
and I headed back to Deticut for vacation.

603
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:22.559
Father Lawrence called me and they said, I cannot let you go home

604
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:29.159
in conscience without telling you what that
thing said, because it was to me

605
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:34.119
directly, he said. They had
a terrible time translator because who speaks Melee

606
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:39.679
in Northern New York. It said
I was there when your father committed suicide.

607
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:44.039
I told him to do it.
Now. Had that been in English,

608
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:46.719
I would have been an apputation.
At this point, I don't know

609
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:50.599
what Father Lawrence expected me to do, whether it's going to just quit the

610
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.239
whole business right there, or it
maybe wanted to say how strong I wor

611
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:59.039
this kind of thing happened with the
relative frequency according to him. I thanked

612
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:01.079
him. I said, I'm glad
you told me. I wouldn't want to

613
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:05.880
not know. I just kept a
stiff upper Olympics well used to faith and

614
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:07.920
just soldier on. I think he
maybe had an eye on me as an

615
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:12.079
exorcist in the future where once I've
been ordained to the priest, of which

616
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.800
I never was. I believe these
things are real. I've seen them myself.

617
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:20.400
Other cases were not quite as dramatic
as that. You have to steal

618
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:22.920
yourself and to learn to take it
if you're going to help these people.

619
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:27.920
But I think you also have to
have a vision of this that is outside

620
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:32.320
of theology and more part of nature
and physics. I'm always being blamed for

621
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:37.280
not embracing other people's religious beliefs once
they find not about my theological education.

622
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:42.480
But I said, it's not good
enough to explain any of these things.

623
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:47.719
The theologism good enough. I think
the SCIENTI has helped necessarily good and experientially.

624
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.639
People have experiencing these things, and
it's throughout history and in all cultures,

625
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:55.159
and I don't think they understand it
either. But it's all about dead

626
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:59.679
people. I don't believe that it
didn't. So the exorcism was just another

627
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.840
page in the book. Eventually discovering
at the end of the seventies and dose

628
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.440
of the multiple world theories and all
this sort of stuff that businessests didn't like

629
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:13.239
either. Einstein thought it was too
weird, but he couldn't deny it.

630
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.000
There are various interpretations of the multiverse
idea, but I think that it certainly

631
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:22.079
explains the paranormal. Also, the
other side of the coin is a holographics

632
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:24.760
theory, which also I think is
they go hand in hand. I was

633
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.199
really firm for loophole out of the
stuff, but by the end of the

634
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:31.639
seventies I thought there might be explanations
outside of theology. Before we move on,

635
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.599
I want to get into some of
the UFO investigations. I want to

636
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:38.159
talk about some of your personal experiences. But before we get there, give

637
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:44.559
us the cliff notes version of this
multiverse theory and give us an idea for

638
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:46.639
those in the audience that aren't familiar
with that. What are you talking about

639
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:52.440
when you're saying the multiverse theory.
Yeah, we're used to the universe,

640
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.320
Okay. I can maybe it's very
a curve ball here and take it to

641
00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.599
a theological perspective. Whether you're studying
pretty much in any legion or any seminary,

642
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:06.199
any catechues in Bork or whatever church
school, funday school, the general

643
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.039
approach to the creation is that God
had so much love that it had to

644
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:15.559
be expressed. He couldn't help it
those at the explosion, whether they call

645
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:19.719
it the Big Bang or whatever,
of love, and it resulted in the

646
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:23.679
creation of the material world we know
now, because we also know now that

647
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:29.000
the material world is really just a
form of energy. And then there's energy

648
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:30.679
too, of course, the pure
energy of this sort of thing. So

649
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:35.760
however you approach it, it's just
one universe. It has one planet Mars,

650
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:39.440
a bunch of galaxies out there,
one Andromedolost. Quantum physics went way

651
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:45.480
beyond that. By the end of
the nineteenth century the term multiverse was coined,

652
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:50.920
and it eventually means there are many
versions of the universe, some of

653
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:54.559
which are quite different. They took
a long time to reach these conclusions into

654
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:59.960
the twentieth century, but by the
nineteen fifties that there was a graduate student

655
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:05.199
named Elliott who came up with the
MWI. The multiple worlds interpretation of quantum

656
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:09.920
mechanics is quantum mechanics separated from Thetonian
physics, and got weirder and weirder.

657
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:15.559
Now you have stream theory, which
is trying to unite quantum mechanics with Newtonian

658
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:21.559
physic dollar stuff. Even that's postulating
eleven or twelve different different parallel world.

659
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:27.199
But in our interpretation, we agree
with the interpretation just because we've seen in

660
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:34.320
the trenches that you have perpped an
infinite number of parallel universe and they keep

661
00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:37.079
being created. One of the examples
of physicists who approach it this way we'll

662
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:43.079
use was that if I were to
hang up the phone right now, that

663
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.960
not only in the interview, it
would create a new universe, literally the

664
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:52.079
one in which I did not hang
up the phone, which I'll stay in

665
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:54.800
right now, or other orse you'll
get mad at me, will continue going.

666
00:45:54.880 --> 00:46:00.159
So that the old conundrum of time
travel, go back in time and

667
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:05.000
shoot your own grandfather, how could
you be born? That that's the total

668
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:07.639
non issue. It's totally irrelevant the
world in which you shoot your grandfather.

669
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:13.599
You had created a new stream and
time and space to very ancient indigenous peoples

670
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:19.760
and an Australian Aboriginal would we colbatus
when they see it as a tree with

671
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:23.360
almost infinite numbers of branches. You'd
create another branch when you shoot your grandfather,

672
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:29.000
But the one in which you were
born never stops existing. The whole

673
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.639
conundrum is not a problem, right. The same thing with hanging up the

674
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:37.119
fun and creating in a universe.
This is going on in inconceivable numbers,

675
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:42.000
each day, more being created in
the fields. This is how I began

676
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.480
to see this happening. Many examples. The ox Cart guy going by in

677
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:51.039
nineteen seventy one, sending us all
into all out of fascination and confusion,

678
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:57.239
was, in this interpretation, literally
going about his day driving his team of

679
00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:01.800
authors in eighteen hundred or or whenever, And had we interacted with him,

680
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:07.440
mister Randall might have had a very
strange day all right, even though he

681
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.599
might have heard us or something much
like those fellows at the cemetery. If

682
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:13.719
that's what was happening. We heard
the muttering, and we may have been

683
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.519
the first ghosts, and this sort
of thing. All the time, my

684
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:21.679
son Den and I run into quote
unquote ghosts who think weird ghosts haunting them,

685
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:23.599
and they're afraid of us. All
you have to do is really look

686
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:30.199
outside the box. As the cliche
goes, consider other interpretations been dead people.

687
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.639
If ghosts were dead, they'd be
dead. They wouldn't be doing anything

688
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:37.639
much more likely. And again the
case, if the case, we were

689
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:43.440
into this, we believe that they
are the actual people bodies and all going

690
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:46.559
about their daily wives and wherever,
whenever they happen to be. Why do

691
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:51.239
we see them as glowing or as
shadows or whatever. What do you have

692
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:58.280
between these worlds? Physicists will call
it membrane or brain brae, electromagnetically charged

693
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:04.760
boundaries between these parallel worlds they can
interact. I mentioned that the spatial oddities

694
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:07.559
that occurred during cases. In the
case of the Children nineteen seventy one,

695
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:13.280
we've heard up and down the brook. I've dealt with entities people for they

696
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.320
seemed that in our world up by
the ceiling or down in the floor,

697
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:20.159
whereas in their own world they're perfectly
linear. That's one of the odd things

698
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:24.280
we see. There are countless cases
of this. One of the more interesting

699
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:30.280
spiritual and human repercussions of this was
brought home to me. I was speaking

700
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:34.119
at mount Ida College near Boston many
years ago, and I got a kick

701
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:37.639
out of it because half the students
were studying the undertakers. I thought I

702
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:42.039
was cute. Did you ever see
the movie Glory about the fifty fourth Massachusetts

703
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.239
Regiment in the Civil War. It
was an African American regimen and they did

704
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:50.440
all this amazing stuff during the war. I was in his dining room giving

705
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:52.119
their speech. Now he has long
gone because he was killed in the war,

706
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.079
but his house is now part of
college, so that's not the hum

707
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:00.360
of there. I'd been talking about
human relationships in the multiverse. And I

708
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:02.400
love to speak at colleges because they
put me in a big armchair like Santa

709
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:06.599
Claus or somebody, and then the
students will come up and they tell me

710
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:10.159
their story. So I was sitting
there after the lecture and two freshmen girls

711
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:15.480
came up. They'd been fascinated by
the human relationships. They said, why

712
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:20.400
is it that we never saw each
other before? In our whole lives registrations

713
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:23.440
we saw each other and they'd been
tremendous friends ever since. And I said,

714
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:27.920
if this theory is correct, that
at some point in the multiverse,

715
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.599
you are one another and you have
this identity point, a term we had

716
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:37.679
and yet invented. They knew precisely
what I was talking about. They recognized

717
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:40.480
it, and they went scampering off, all happy that they had an explanation

718
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:45.400
or so they thought, for their
close relationship. And I've seen this again

719
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:47.639
and again. People often will recognize
these things. What I really love to

720
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:51.159
hear. I love to hear if
the lectures is you know, I've been

721
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.719
afraid of this all my life,
but now I understand and said, I

722
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:57.719
don't have to be afraid of it
anymore. So I hope the heck were

723
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:01.280
correct, because you're giving a lot
of people a confident there are things you

724
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:07.039
should be afraid of out there.
Here's the official definition of the multiverse that

725
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:10.440
we have come up with. That's
in my last book, short for multiple

726
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:15.800
Universes. The concept comes from theoretical
physics invasions. He says the reality is

727
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:19.239
made not of one universe or world, but many. The corresponding term is

728
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:23.320
parallel world and I get into hughever, it's MWY theory here, pausiness.

729
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:28.280
They don't always agree how this is
organized, but most of them really gent

730
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:31.800
and I that it does exist a
critical concept in the many interpretations of all

731
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:37.360
possible worlds. Creatures, objects from
outcome exist in concrete your realities somewhere.

732
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:42.559
It's not one. So that's a
long answer a short question, Brian.

733
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:46.920
But that's the multiverses the firm as
we should Let's go into the UFO subject.

734
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:51.159
I know that's one of the things
that I love about you the most

735
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.719
and about your careers. You're not
necessarily a specialist in one thing or the

736
00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:00.000
other. You've investigated so many different
things as far as the paranormal is concerned.

737
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:02.800
Let's talk a little bit about the
research that you've done into UFOs.

738
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:07.159
I'm fascinated by the UFO subject.
I know you've had your own personal experiences

739
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.639
with the UFOs, but could you
share your personal experiences with what you've seen

740
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:15.440
and experienced and maybe pick a case
that you could share with us that you've

741
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:20.239
actually investigated. Sure, the UFO
thing. I was wresting everything in the

742
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:24.039
context of a bigger picture. Okay, not just as multiverse thing, but

743
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:30.920
in areas what we call them flat
areas where this multiverse principle is magnified,

744
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:36.119
so that you have frequent paranormal phenomena
of types that are not generally associated with

745
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:38.199
one another, and one of these
of the UFOs. So, by the

746
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:42.840
end of the seventies, I was
not only running into ghosts of people who

747
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:45.920
were dead yet people seeing ghosts of
buildings villagy, those were just kind of

748
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.960
thing way beyond dead people. I
was also running into people who were seeing

749
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:55.679
UFOs. This would be in the
context of quote unquote hearted housing, because

750
00:51:55.719 --> 00:51:59.719
at some point, I don't remember
exactly when it was still what I was

751
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:02.400
order the Warrens, and I brought
this up to Ed and he said,

752
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:07.079
yeah, it could be. He
called it a bleedover kind of phenomenon.

753
00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:09.800
He's right. What would happen was
that if you could get outside of a

754
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:14.559
house where our family was having issues
of this sort of thing, or if

755
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:19.760
you could talk to the neighbors,
not always advisable or possible, but when

756
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:22.920
you did, you very often find
out that they were having issues too.

757
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:27.719
When I was investigating a case in
Connecticut, there was someone who said,

758
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:30.199
yeah, I actually we saw a
UFO landing right over there in that field

759
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.760
while there was stuff popping in the
next house with the culture guys. I

760
00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:37.760
began to realize, maybe this whole
thing is bigger, not only than dead

761
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:42.599
people, but bigger than maybe our
concept of the whole shebang. So that's

762
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:45.119
how I got statted with the UFOs. Then from that Bridgeport house, when

763
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:51.760
I was having that experience I described
with those paradites they came across and I

764
00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:54.360
cannot think of a better word than
alien, but they're supposed to be demons.

765
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:58.280
They're supposed to be evil, but
they came across with an entirely different

766
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.599
field to me. Germanly not wold, hungry and hostile, but alien,

767
00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:07.960
totally other, totally non human,
something outside of our world for sure,

768
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:10.920
or at least in the background,
the place you don't want to be.

769
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:15.360
I began to realize that I think
we put labels on things, whether it

770
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:22.400
be phenomenal or entities or whatever,
experiences that we can understand behind what we're

771
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.400
actually experiencing, and that really limit
and keeps us in the box, as

772
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:30.440
it were. So I found that
UFOs really stretched the envelope what the paranormal

773
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.760
is all about, and what things
can be connected and what things cannot be.

774
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:37.760
Matter of fact, when Bill Hollis
was searching his book because we've never

775
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.960
met before and he interviewed me as
pretty much the only witness from that I

776
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:46.360
said, have you looked at the
mutual ufone network reports from that period.

777
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:51.199
I think you're going to find that
there was a spike in UFO site.

778
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.400
I said, if you can talk
to people who lived in the area at

779
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:58.199
the time, see if they had
stuff going on in their houses, And

780
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.880
sure enough he was able to do
that. Guy's an amazing researcher, and

781
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.920
he said, sure enough, that
was the case. That's when I started

782
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.639
to when I would interview people initially
who had what they thought was grandfather Joe

783
00:54:07.719 --> 00:54:13.280
stopping around in the attic ten years
after his funeral. Have you seen other

784
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:17.760
paranormal events? Have you seen strange
light and like in the sky or And

785
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:22.440
almost always there would be a yet, but the context of it was interesting.

786
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:25.360
If you see a strange light ball
of light floating through your living room,

787
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:29.000
aha, it goes. If you're
out in your yard, that's a

788
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:31.880
little bit elevated. Aha ufo.
So again, these are things that we

789
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:36.280
can understand we but labeled I'm and
the mayor may not be accurate. That's

790
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:40.199
what I'd been doing all these years, particularly about twenty oh five when my

791
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:45.440
son Bentioned turned thirteen. He was
born to do this. He attended a

792
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:46.840
lots of my lectures. He'd sell
books in the back of the room with

793
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:51.320
his brother, his mom, and
I decided that if he wanted to do

794
00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:53.559
it and he didn't have nightmares and
stuff, he could join me in the

795
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:59.360
war and stay tuned for more sasquatch
Outsey. We'll be right back after the

796
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:05.320
East message, he's want to be
talking about it, but he had a

797
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:09.920
number of contacts with what he'd believed
were UFOs and aliens right from pretty much

798
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:14.920
the start. So we've really been
working on that together. In these flat

799
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.239
areas that we always run into UFOs, we always run into cryptid, we

800
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.840
always run into the military or something
that looks like the military. And the

801
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.360
question is, well, why is
that. Maybe we'd love to weaponize the

802
00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:30.199
paranormal. Maybe we'd love to be
able to farm it out to industrial concern

803
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:36.039
because all kinds of crazy money could
be made if you harness paranormal principles.

804
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:39.599
Then we used to be operating between
world So all this led up to a

805
00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:45.960
really amazing experience from twenty sixteen to
twenty nineteen in what we referred to as

806
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:50.320
the Pennsylvania Triangle. This has been
a major case for us, and we've

807
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:55.079
been working on the Connecticut case Litchfield
Triangle for sixteen years and it keeps getting

808
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.599
bigger. A lot of UFOs stopped
going and we've gotten over to the Hudson

809
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:04.159
Valley. Now we had a rural
area where people were not afraid to talk

810
00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:07.639
about this. We would have neighborhood
meetings in the thirty five or forty people

811
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:09.599
would show up, all of whom
have seen Bigfoot and seem weird lights in

812
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:14.400
the back. We are stills had
Bigfoot experiences. Shane Seerway, one of

813
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.639
our very private colleagues who was good
at what he does, he had a

814
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:22.960
Bigfoot experience there. On our first
trip May of twenty sixteen broad Daylight,

815
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:25.719
we got pictures of weird lights in
the sky. The people in the area

816
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:30.280
would tell us about sheep coming over
and dropping this weird shining stuff that would

817
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:34.599
evaporate. Everybody has seen Bigfoot,
everybody has seen UFOs, and some of

818
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:39.199
the people have a ghost phenomenal going
out in their home parishitical irretherwise. So

819
00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:45.880
this is an area where the first
Nations might say that the boundaries of the

820
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:49.840
world with membranes, if you will, are very thin, and there's also

821
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.480
on sorts of give and take and
activity energy and the inhabitants back and forth.

822
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:57.920
I think that's the basis of paranormal
experience. Fast forward to May twenty

823
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.400
nineteen, we were on another praedition
that we had folks some of we have

824
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:05.960
heard we had changed here where we
had Charles Credo from the Main and the

825
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.480
Seacoasaufics of New England, and we
had alex and Pennacow, who was the

826
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:15.519
wonderful filmmaker. He's Benvade. He
was pretty much in the cryptids and he

827
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:17.719
was there for Bigfoot, but this
experience was really dramatic for him too.

828
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:22.400
We were sitting there with some of
the whole man was very dark, and

829
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:25.400
Shane had got the impression we shouldn't
fan out. Sure enough, he was

830
00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:30.920
right. All of a sudden,
he and Alexander saw this really strange light

831
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:36.239
in the sky. It was a
crystal clear night, though there were thunderstorms

832
00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:39.199
up to the south. From very
far away where we were with crystal clear,

833
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:44.920
it seemed more like a cloud with
an object that came out of it.

834
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:47.360
Went around to the other side,
and there was like a darker than

835
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:52.559
dark, almost without a beam,
but a section below this cloud light structure

836
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.719
as it moved out from behind the
trees. As it happened, I had

837
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:02.320
my brandy new besth Guarter three hundred
infrared binoculars that I had never used before.

838
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:07.320
These things paid for themselves that night. I got this whole thing on

839
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.719
video. As this thing comes out. The people can see the video if

840
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:15.679
they go to the Behind the Paranormal
with Paul and Vanino facebook page. The

841
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:19.280
that's the name of our show that
they can see that. There are two

842
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:22.159
very interesting videos that people might be
really interested and this is one of them.

843
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:27.440
So this experience went on for the
better part of three minute. It

844
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:31.679
seemed to change shape at one point
turned and then the object, the solid

845
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.000
object, went back in. All
I could think of when I saw this

846
00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:40.079
was like an artist conception of a
black hole or a white hole. A

847
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:44.480
white hole is not as well known. Disposably, the fire comes out of

848
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:49.639
that into one universe or another,
and that's cosmology. So it was really

849
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:53.039
quite dramatic, and we really enjoyed. The things that happened to us there

850
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:58.360
to me are sacred and the privilege
I feel that we experience these things.

851
00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.800
So that was there again the UFOs, and of course is what are they?

852
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:08.039
The standard explanation is they're spacecraft from
other planets, perfectly reasonable, perfectly

853
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:13.360
plausible, coming a couple of million
light years in the normal Nanda. The

854
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:15.320
way we travel would be difficult,
we won't think, of course. But

855
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:20.159
if you use the multiverse, or
you use wormholes or things that are possibly

856
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:23.559
than physics that are pretty much accepted. You could move without even moving in

857
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:28.360
this fan, so you could travel
one planet or another just just by using

858
00:59:28.519 --> 00:59:31.199
intersect points or whatever, and then
that could be probably controlled that it might

859
00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:36.159
be. One of the things of
the American industry and military is researching,

860
00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:38.800
and very often there's some explanations you
don't hear about, such that the UFOs,

861
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:44.000
for example, maybe living things very
often that they'll act in a very

862
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:46.880
intelligent manner. There's ball wiightening that
can appear in your house, and then

863
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:51.360
that can be considered the UFO if
you know what it is. But there

864
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:54.760
are all sorts of possible explanations that
could be a time travelers. One of

865
00:59:54.840 --> 01:00:00.760
the cases we researched in great depth
with the witnesses was the Randolsom Forest case

866
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:07.280
of nineteen eighty. It was quite
the experience to be there and to listen

867
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:12.159
to the Hall tape right where it
was recorded and the Hall tape or anybody

868
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.920
doesn't know. The deputy commander of
the base, as these objects were flying

869
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:21.760
around the landing between two NATO air
bases in December of nineteen eighty, Colonel

870
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:27.119
Charles Hall whom we know was there
was recording on a small tape record with

871
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:30.320
his experience with it, and he
kept thing weird, we you know what,

872
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:35.519
and it was just really something.
But we know pretty much all the

873
01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:37.280
major witnesses. We've had them on
our show. And when we did more

874
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.920
broadcast time on that case than anybody
else up to the time we did it,

875
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.840
some of the witnesses breathed they were
time travel Jim Pennison, for example,

876
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:51.880
it was a non commissioned officer who
a security detachment are actually says that

877
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:55.880
he approached an object that landed,
put his hand on it. It was

878
01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:00.320
warm to the touch, and there
were these trains markings on it. He

879
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:06.079
said under hypnosis that if you give
credibility hypnosis, he said they were not

880
01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:09.000
alien. They were on. Other
people believe they were Soviet at the time

881
01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:12.480
or whatever. So there are all
sorts of opinions, but there are many

882
01:01:12.519 --> 01:01:16.519
possibilities that go way beyond the extradressial
craft thing. And I think I've seen

883
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:22.440
one example. I think what I
might have seen and gotten on video was

884
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:27.320
a possible intersect point or a pull
as it were, where things were coming

885
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:30.800
and going. Is that happens all
the time the big poot that I saw

886
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:35.000
oftime, it was gone, Shame's
ran away. But other people have seen

887
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:37.639
cryptis of that kind in that area, that they're there and then they're not.

888
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:42.159
So I think that the multiverse thing
figures is just as prominently in the

889
01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:46.280
UFO scene as it does in the
crypti or ghost scenarios. If this multiverse

890
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:50.239
thing is correct, we would have
experiences of what to us would be the

891
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:53.519
future, just as we would have
experiences of the past, the ghost people

892
01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:58.840
going about their day who really aren't
ghosts. So the question arises, and

893
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:02.920
maybe these UFO sightings, and some
of them anyway, are bleed overs or

894
01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:07.599
intersect voice with what would be the
future that don't job. Anything is possible

895
01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:12.800
if you have time to go into
the Bigfoot thing. The fans from Sasquatch

896
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:15.639
Otyssey would kill me if I didn't
ask about the Bigfoot encounter. I've always

897
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:22.039
been a flesh and blood camp when
it comes to the Bigfoot, the Sasquatch

898
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:25.519
thing, but I certainly leave my
mind open. I've had people on my

899
01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:30.159
show that have made me really scratch
my head and think. I always go

900
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:35.719
to Ockham's raisor and what makes the
most sense to me, and sometimes the

901
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.599
stories that I hear, the thing
that makes the most sense to me is

902
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:43.159
it's some sort of giant ape,
not some inter dimensional being. And I

903
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:46.159
attribute those things to it's just really
fast. It was there and then it

904
01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:50.679
wasn't. But there are things that
don't make sense to me. Trackways,

905
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:54.800
for example. Trackways don't just disappear
either. They're hoaxed in my opinion.

906
01:02:54.800 --> 01:03:00.159
And these people that find these air
quote trackways that have one or two two

907
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:05.000
tracks in them and then they just
disappear are probably not real because that doesn't

908
01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:07.440
happen. If you're a tracker.
You can find that next track and the

909
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:13.480
next track in the next track.
But there's also stories of people saying,

910
01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:15.400
hey, it was there and then
it wasn't. And it sounds like you

911
01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:21.239
had that experience. So what happened
during your encounter with a big foot?

912
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:27.159
Well, September sixteenth, twenty sixteen, brilliant moonlit Friday and night. We

913
01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:30.800
were in Pennsylvania and I have a
favorite spot where I like to kind of

914
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:34.360
stake out things, and that's a
field right above the whole of our hold.

915
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:38.119
That's the place where we had the
UFO experienced three years later, and

916
01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:42.880
I parked my truck up the air, and this particular evening, I had

917
01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:46.079
my cameras set up in the truck
for weird lights in the sky, because

918
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:50.800
that's what we've gotten, and of
course realize that that things do not happen

919
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:54.480
as planned when things are tend to
be very spontaneous, and they surprised you.

920
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:59.440
It was a cold night, so
I had the passenger side window up

921
01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.800
and my driver's side window down,
and I was watching the sky. All

922
01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:08.719
of a sudden, something to the
right grabbed my attention and I looked,

923
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:15.000
and I could see the huge,
furry brown legs and knees moving up and

924
01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:19.079
down, a very tall creature with
a ted bowed as if looking for something

925
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:24.599
in the grass on two leg I
took a quick shot with the infrared camera

926
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:29.280
through the cool windows of no signature
that I was used with, and I

927
01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.719
started to get out, and then
my phone rang. It was my wife,

928
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:35.320
the closest I ever came to divorce
sometime, and I said, who's

929
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:38.559
gonna call me in the middle of
a field in the middle of Pennsylvania,

930
01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:41.840
the middle of the night. Apparently
her, So I told her, I'm

931
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:44.039
in the middle of a bigfoot,
I said, what, But anyway,

932
01:04:44.119 --> 01:04:46.679
the rings home on my phone was
the theme from Lord of the Rings,

933
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:51.360
so that goes blasting out over the
field. So whatever this was wasn't there

934
01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:54.559
anymore. I was trying to get
out and trying to see it, but

935
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:59.280
it was gone. It was maybe
two hundred feet away a mode, and

936
01:04:59.320 --> 01:05:03.159
within the next five minutes I saw
white up in a tree across the field.

937
01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:05.960
They looked like ordinary flashlights. I
said, what's going on here?

938
01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:09.679
I didn't want to take off across
the field because I didn't know if there

939
01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:14.159
were any yawning corrosters rand and would
swallow my truck. Though. The next

940
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:16.360
morning the Shank Serro was with me. We went out and we found a

941
01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:20.920
path through this tall grass. Something
apparently on two legs had made but it

942
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:25.519
started just on the edge of the
wood, down like a chain for the

943
01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:27.480
woods, but just like appeared there. And then I went up to a

944
01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:31.199
point probably where my wife called,
and it turned around and apparently disappeared.

945
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:35.199
Now I didn't figure out what the
lights were until the night after that,

946
01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:40.239
when we had a neighborhood meeting.
I described the experience and a hand went

947
01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:44.079
out. A woman named Melissa who
lived in the house on the other side

948
01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:47.079
of the field, said that she
had to come home Winter's son from the

949
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:55.320
store right at this time got out
heard something big moving right above their house

950
01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:58.639
or in the field, and went
up to see what it was. They

951
01:05:58.679 --> 01:06:01.559
heard it while I was seeing it
is the timings, think or not?

952
01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:04.079
And I said, well, are
you doing shining light stuff in the tree?

953
01:06:04.119 --> 01:06:08.239
And she said sometimes they were in
the tree. That appears to be

954
01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:12.719
cooperative evidence, so that I was
actually seeing something very strange. But they're

955
01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:15.960
not afraid of this stuff that they
go up and see. When they hear

956
01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:19.280
this stuff, I considered it a
very sacred experience. I felt very privileged.

957
01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:24.559
But if just before I go into
these teams, I will express great

958
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:29.239
respect and that sort of thing or
whatever's there. Many of the people,

959
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:32.440
though, have had negative experiences.
For example, there's one little girl who

960
01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:36.840
was no more than one hundred yards
before I was having my experience, and

961
01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:42.320
this is a year or two before
this. She encountered in broad daylight.

962
01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.960
She was on her way over the
school in the dirt road a bigfoot,

963
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:53.039
very much of the description that I
saw. She was terrified, absolutely terrified.

964
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:56.360
She came to the next two years
worth of they were meetings and just

965
01:06:56.440 --> 01:07:00.000
cried and she has never been willing
to talk to us. And her parents

966
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:02.360
like her too, but she hasn't. And movie hit some point if she

967
01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:06.239
grows up and she'll at least talk
to us. These experiences will get out

968
01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:10.679
of them what we bring to them. If we come in with negative feelings

969
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:13.880
and fear, that's what we're gonna
get. I think we participate very much

970
01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.559
in these experiences. We don't just
sit there like lumpson and happiness to us.

971
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:20.079
Whatever was happening with her, apparently
she took it very negatively, and

972
01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:24.039
with me it was very positive.
So the question arises as far as splashing

973
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:29.920
one and stuff. This is an
area where you've got farms, some open

974
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:33.639
country wood lots of maybe ten acres, a lot of open pastorage and fields

975
01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:39.079
of corn. It's not a wilderness
area. In order to have a viable

976
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:43.679
breeding population, you need to have
five hundred and a halbit where the hay

977
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:46.800
do you hide a creature of this
side in an area like that, let

978
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:53.679
alone a large population people in speculated
old mines and caves. But I don't

979
01:07:53.679 --> 01:07:58.519
think that's good enough. You find
these shelters that someone has built out in

980
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:01.280
the woods, even in the smaller
wood lot. There has been a theory

981
01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:05.760
that I've heard that these are where
they tell each other the intersect points are,

982
01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:09.920
and then they can go one world
through another and hunt or e to

983
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:12.719
do whatever they do. There seems
to be a very natural way of life

984
01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:15.119
for some of these multiversal creatures.
They are as we see it now.

985
01:08:15.159 --> 01:08:18.880
We've had some people on the show
who believe that these are question blood,

986
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:21.279
you know, but again, where
do they go? Where do they come

987
01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:26.840
from? Me? Just the first
nations people will tell you their shape shackures,

988
01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:29.720
they come and go. I happen
to put a lot of stock in

989
01:08:29.800 --> 01:08:32.760
what they say. We're there a
lot longer than we were though. And

990
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.720
e. Linda Godfrey, for example, a dear friend of ours, who

991
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:41.800
is none in the best of helper
in here the greatest expert in canine cryptid

992
01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:45.680
and cryptids in general. She broke
the story of the Beast of Bray Road,

993
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:48.600
quite famous in Wisconsin, and she
believes there's no other choice but to

994
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:53.239
look at films are the multiversal explanation
for these things. So that's how we

995
01:08:53.319 --> 01:08:57.239
state it. Anyway. You've obviously
been doing this for decades and decades.

996
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:00.319
That's why I asked the question.
At the end of the day, I

997
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:03.680
always leave my mind open because I
don't think any of us really know what's

998
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:09.039
going on with most of the stuff. I certainly have my opinions. Every

999
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:13.960
time I talk to somebody like you, I leave those conversations scratching my head,

1000
01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:15.640
and I go back to the drawing
board and I continue to learn,

1001
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:20.800
because that's ultimately the goal of my
show is really the Sasquatch and the Bigfoot,

1002
01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:25.159
is to talk to people that have
encounters and talk to people that have

1003
01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:29.199
experience, because I think we learn
from each one of those something different.

1004
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:32.640
Like you said, sometimes you go
into these encounters and you take away from

1005
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:35.720
it what you bring. In a
lot of cases, I always want to

1006
01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:39.680
learn too. Because you could do
things for half a century doesn't mean that

1007
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:43.119
you're doing it right. I know
you've mentioned your show a couple of times.

1008
01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:45.479
Tell the audience where they can find
your books and where they can find

1009
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:48.920
your show is Facebook. The best
way to get in contact with you if

1010
01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:53.199
somebody wants to see what you've got
going on, really the best way,

1011
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:56.720
Brian, and thank you for asking
behind the paranormal Our college A really where

1012
01:09:56.720 --> 01:10:00.720
they could start because the books are
available, saying some store is an Amazon

1013
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:04.000
all the ready. There you have
it, folks behind the paranormal dot Com.

1014
01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:06.920
Paul, thank you so much for
your time. I can already tell

1015
01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:11.119
there's so much that we only scratch
the surface. So I don't want to

1016
01:10:11.119 --> 01:10:13.520
put you on the spot, but
I would love to invite you back in

1017
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:15.520
the future to deep dive into some
of the other things that I have a

1018
01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:18.640
ton of questions about. Thank you
very much, Brian, it's great pleasure.

1019
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:30.640
They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay. I

1020
01:10:30.760 --> 01:11:01.079
don't want to be out this job. Jo every day came in, Bricket

1021
01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:06.399
back, brocket back for joy,
for me, joy, stay right,

1022
01:11:09.560 --> 01:12:03.680
you come in right away, steps
steps, steps, step still not talking

1023
01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:23.760
about as games and State pays,
US State assist, US US pass