1 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:33,320 Good evening, or should I say good evening. I always wanted to say 2 00:00:33,359 --> 00:00:38,000 that, I'm just excited about tonight's guests. Welcome to the show. I'm 3 00:00:38,039 --> 00:00:42,320 Martin willsh your host, And like I said, I'm super excited about our 4 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,840 guest tonight, Professor Kevin Knuth. And you know when people in the UFO 5 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:54,079 community say, why aren't scientists taking the UFO subject seriously in looking into it? 6 00:00:55,399 --> 00:01:00,880 Well, there you go. He has a well respected he's well respected 7 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,400 as an associate professor in the Department of Physics at the University of Albany, 8 00:01:06,239 --> 00:01:11,040 and he is the editor in chief of the Journal of Entropy. He's a 9 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:18,319 former NASA research scientist, having worked four years at NASA Aims Research Center, 10 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:26,560 an intelligent systems division designing artificial intelligence algorithms for astrophysical data analysis. Is that 11 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:34,000 science e enough for you all out there in the UFO community, I think 12 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,079 it is. Before we get started, I do want to thank everyone who 13 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,879 supports the show. I really do appreciate a lot, and without your help, 14 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,079 I could not go on. So I really appreciate that, and I 15 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:51,359 appreciate every single listener and if you're on the edge for supporting the show. 16 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,159 You can do that for less than a cup of coffee only two dollars a 17 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:00,400 month over at Patreon, and the links to that are on our website cast 18 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:06,640 UFO. While you're there, check out this week's great blog by our blogger. 19 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,080 He's done a great job for quite a while now, Charles Lear. 20 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:15,240 And the title of that one is called UFOs and Humanoids. In nineteen seventy 21 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,879 three, we got there was some strange cases that year, including the Pascagoula 22 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,919 case, and so do go and check that out next next week. I 23 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,039 do want to say it is all about you, the listener. It's a 24 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,599 call in show. We're making an experiment. We're going to try that out 25 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,840 and I know I can't talk for two hours. We are going to have 26 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,280 Race over here at KGr A doing the call screening. Thank you, Race, 27 00:02:43,879 --> 00:02:47,479 and we hope to hear from if you listen to the show in other 28 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:53,159 ways over at the Dark Matter of Digital Network or on YouTube, or you 29 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,560 are a listener to the podcast, and of course are on YouTube all the 30 00:02:55,599 --> 00:03:00,400 time, we'd love to hear from you. And that is next week starting 31 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:07,599 at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time, and now that is minus four 32 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:13,800 GMT instead of minus five because we had time change last Sunday. And without 33 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,400 further ado, I'm going to welcome our guests. Welcome to the show. 34 00:03:16,479 --> 00:03:22,120 Kevin, thank you very much for having me, and you remembered on Mutual 35 00:03:22,199 --> 00:03:25,560 Mike. That's great, thank you. That's about a fifty fifty on this 36 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:31,800 show. So I'm really really glad to have you on, Kevin for so 37 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,919 many reasons. I know that Alejandro interviewed you. I just found that out 38 00:03:37,639 --> 00:03:42,400 a day or two ago. He was at that conference where you did your 39 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,360 talk. There was that about a year ago or something like that. Yeah, 40 00:03:46,479 --> 00:03:52,520 I'm about last year this time. Yes, And how if you could 41 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:59,080 tell the listening audience what made you decide to tackle this interesting topic. I 42 00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:03,560 think it's interesting. Oh that's a that's a good question. UM would maybe 43 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:11,360 decided to tackle it a moment of insanity perhaps, I know, but but 44 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:17,160 seriously I think UM. I was. I found the um the revelations of 45 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:23,079 the A TIP program quite compelling and quite interesting. And and I have long 46 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,959 felt that, you know, scientists ought to ought to study these things rather 47 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:32,480 than just joke about them. And UM, and so when I heard, 48 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:40,639 especially when I heard about the Um, the conference these that these Scientific Coalition 49 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:44,480 for UAP Studies was holding. Um, I thought, well, I would 50 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,639 really like to go to this and find out more. And so that's pretty 51 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:53,199 much what got me interested in this. Uh huh. And had you had 52 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:59,439 you yourself ever had any type of sighting or anything. That's hard to answer 53 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,319 because it's I had. I had seen something unusual that I really just thought 54 00:05:03,399 --> 00:05:08,879 was a weather balloon. At one point I was, Um. It was 55 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,079 while I was in college working in my bachelor's degree, and I was working 56 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:19,759 as a computer scientist at Mercury Marine in Wisconsin, and I was coming out 57 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:25,040 of work. It was afternoon, probably around three or four in the afternoon, 58 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:32,000 and I saw a I saw on F sixteen flying and I got very 59 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:38,680 excited about that. And and that was not horribly unusual because I grew up 60 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:44,000 just south of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, where they have the Experimental Aircraft Association fly 61 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,360 in, so the EAA fly in is there, and very often we'd see 62 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,480 war birds flying. But that really wasn't until near the end of July, 63 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,240 so this is probably early June. And I saw in A sixteen. I 64 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:58,319 thought wow, in F sixteen, I thought, what is it, What 65 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:01,800 is an F sixteen doing here? So I ran in my car and got 66 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,360 my binoculars. I'm a bird watcher, so I keep binoculars in my car 67 00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:10,519 and grabbed the binoculars and I looked and realized there were two F sixteens and 68 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,120 they kind of split up and came back around. And as I watched, 69 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:19,439 I realized that they were basically flying around metallic sphere that was just just hovering 70 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:25,439 there in the air, and the sphere was about a third of the length 71 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,519 of an F sixteen. They were right next to each other for direct comparison, 72 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,399 and I assumed that I was watching a some kind of exercise, and 73 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:40,399 I just imagined it was a weather balloon and they were practicing taking out weather 74 00:06:40,399 --> 00:06:43,839 balloons or something. I don't know. And so I watched. I watched 75 00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:46,680 your binoculars. I had a very clear view. It was a clear sky, 76 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:53,839 a bright summer day. And I watched for about three minutes and I 77 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:56,199 and this is where I made my mistake. I thought, oh, my 78 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,399 brother has to see this. So this was before we had cell phones. 79 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:02,439 This would have been back around in nineteen eighty seven, and so I thought 80 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:05,439 my brother hasked to see this, so I hopped in the car and raced 81 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:11,120 home to get my younger brother. And by the time I got home, 82 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,959 which was about ten minutes later, I grabbed him and went outside and everything 83 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,399 was gone. The smoke trails were gone and so on. Oh, and 84 00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:21,720 I forgot to add that while I was watching during those three minutes, two 85 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:27,519 more F sixteens came in from the west from another Air Force base and they 86 00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:31,279 all four of them were buzzing around this thing like bees, and it was 87 00:07:31,399 --> 00:07:34,240 it was very cool to watch, you But I really imagine that I was 88 00:07:34,279 --> 00:07:38,759 watching an exercise and so but I don't know what happened to the sphere. 89 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,720 The sphere was gone and the F sixteens were gone, so by the time 90 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:45,439 I had gotten to my house, so I don't know how the thing concluded. 91 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,519 And for years I just imagined that there was an exercise with weather balloons. 92 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,639 And at one point I was talking to a friend in the Air Force 93 00:07:53,639 --> 00:07:58,759 and I mentioned this this story, and they were they looked at me quite 94 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,800 surprised, and they said, well, first, they wouldn't have been conducting 95 00:08:01,839 --> 00:08:07,040 exercises over a city. Um. And they also said, and also, 96 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:09,639 you don't fly at F sixteen or a jet aircraft like that anywhere near a 97 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,480 weather blown because you're going to suck it into the air intake and bring the 98 00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:18,720 plane down. And and they noted that the fact that there were two F 99 00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:22,279 sixteens from one direction and two from another sounds like a response to an urgent 100 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:26,720 threat. So so their assessment was that they were actually responding to a threat, 101 00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:31,480 they what they determined to be a threat, and were actually engaging something. 102 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,519 So so looking back, I wish I would have known that, because 103 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:41,200 I would have watched for a longer with more enthusiasm. But but yeah, 104 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:43,240 it was. It was quite exciting that. Really that's a great story. 105 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,879 And there's there is so many, um similar stories of you know, fighter 106 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:56,600 pilots and the after burners you know, taking off after these things chasing you 107 00:08:56,639 --> 00:09:00,519 know. I mean a guy in the I'm in the antiques world and an 108 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,200 antique dealer friend of mine in Canada was talking about, um, you know, 109 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:09,399 being at a party. Uh this is I think it's a great story. 110 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,600 Um when he found out that I did a show in UFOs. They 111 00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:16,240 had a party at his house and they were all outside during the summer on 112 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,519 his deck and uh, someone you know, said what is that? And 113 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:26,639 they heard this this noise and they saw this perfectly shaped disc going really fast 114 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,799 and uh, two fighter jets with their after burners on chasing after it. 115 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:37,559 And then they saw it zig zig back and it was still being followed. 116 00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:41,559 Um, but the thing had, you know, uh, got some space 117 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,600 in between them. So he um, wow, that's that sounds really exciting. 118 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,559 Yeah for me, the sphere was just sitting there motionless, so it 119 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,519 was it wasn't wasn't as exciting. That's still really interesting. But anyway, 120 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,799 the thing that um, he impressed him the most was first of all, 121 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,960 knowing at the part he wanted to talk about it. That was the first 122 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,159 thing. And the second thing is he scoured the newspapers and everything. He 123 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,879 said, he just couldn't believe there was no reports anywhere about it because it 124 00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:15,240 was so fantastic. So wow. Yeah, but uh yeah, well I 125 00:10:15,279 --> 00:10:18,559 mean that that being said, I never reported my encounter to anybody, and 126 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,039 I, like I said, for a long time, I really just thought 127 00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:24,919 it was an exercise with the weather balloon, so there was no real compulsion 128 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,320 to report it, right, and in nineteen eighty seven, well, where 129 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,440 would you report something like that? I mean I wouldn't. You wouldn't. 130 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,720 I don't know I work online, you wouldn't think of and um, you 131 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:37,879 know I would have had no idea. I mean the only time I saw 132 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:41,279 something I called the Air Force base nearby. That's I didn't know what else 133 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:48,519 to do. Right that you can see that, right? And so what 134 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,320 has the road been like for you through NASA and all the other things that 135 00:10:52,360 --> 00:11:01,120 you've done to where you are today? And what made you actually write the 136 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:09,039 paper you recently did. Um, let's see, I think that trying to 137 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:18,600 think of what the most important events were. I've always found the topic interesting 138 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,159 is since I was a kid, and and and of course your imagination runs 139 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:28,600 wild what if? What if? What if? Which is great fun as 140 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:33,840 a scientist. That's tempered by your knowledge of how things you know of how 141 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,200 we understand things to be in the universe, and how to understand physics and 142 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:43,320 engineering, the ability to travel between the stars. It's clearly is very very 143 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,519 hard for us to imagine how to do this, and so so that tempers 144 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:54,960 your enthusiasm a little bit. But um, but I always appreciated the fact 145 00:11:54,080 --> 00:12:03,159 that science studies things that are controllable and reproducible, and that's really where the 146 00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:07,559 power of science comes in. And when you are studying something that's not reproducible 147 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,279 or you don't have any control over, it's extremely hard to do. And 148 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,879 I think back to a time when I was at NASA Aims and I was 149 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:22,600 doing work research on studying planetary nebula, which are clouds of gas surrounding dying 150 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:28,200 stars. We had a local poster session of just presenting our research that was 151 00:12:28,279 --> 00:12:35,360 funded by the center, and my poster was next to a poster from a 152 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:41,240 gentleman named Friedman Freund, and his poster was on earthquake lights, which I 153 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,840 at that point I had never had never heard of. And so so I, 154 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,480 you know, we're standing around showing talking to people about our research. 155 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,000 But you know, when your poster isn't busy, you went around and look 156 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:54,039 at other people. So I would remember I was looking at Freedman Freund's poster 157 00:12:54,120 --> 00:13:00,200 and started asking him some questions and asking about earthquake lights, and you know, 158 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:01,919 he said, well, you know, when there's very often when there's 159 00:13:01,919 --> 00:13:07,759 earthquakes, people see these orbs of light appear and um where you can see 160 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:13,720 jets coming out of the ground. Of light and um, and these things 161 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:16,120 aren't studied. In fact, most most people don't believe that they're real. 162 00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:22,679 Um the at the time, the general belief was that people in earthquakes were 163 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:26,639 panicking and hallucinating UM, and I thought that was kind of amusing. I 164 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,399 thought, well, you can't have everybody hallucinating. Kind of silly. And 165 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:37,399 and his his whole take on this. His research was trying to understand where 166 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:41,279 these lights could come from, and he was proposing that um stress in the 167 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,759 Earth's crust would put um put hum huge pressures on quartz crystals that would then 168 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:52,159 act as piece of electric crystals, giving you large electric fields which could ionize 169 00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:56,080 the air and create these lights. And I thought it very reasonable explanation. 170 00:13:56,279 --> 00:14:01,159 You know, it hinges on the question as to whether rock can effectively conduct 171 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:05,039 current at those potentials, and that I just didn't know, and that's what 172 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:09,120 he was actually researching. So I thought it was pretty interesting. And so 173 00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:13,200 I asked around some of the other some of the other scientists, and I 174 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,879 said, yeah, did you see the poster next to Mine's kind of interesting. 175 00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:18,240 What do you make of that? And they and everybody really pooh pooed 176 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:22,360 it. They were all, oh, yeah, that's Friedman Freud. He 177 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,720 was He was, I think in maybe in his sixties or seventies at the 178 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:28,759 time, and everybody, everybody pretty much said, he's been going on and 179 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,559 on about earthquake lights for years, and he believes that they're you know, 180 00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:39,679 created from stress in the Earth's crust and and and it's really all just nonsense. 181 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,080 And that was pretty much everybody's take and I and I was kind of 182 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,120 disturbed by this. I thought, but you know, he could be right. 183 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:50,200 You know that it's a plausible explanation. We just don't know much about 184 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:56,240 conductivity of the Earth's crust and you know, these sorts of things. And 185 00:14:56,279 --> 00:14:58,919 then I pointed out, if it's true, then what that means is you 186 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,440 could probably detect earthquakes before they happened by measuring electric fields. And there he 187 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,399 goes, yeah, I suppose, but we all know that earthquakes aren't predictable 188 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:09,600 anyway, and blah blah blah. And I said, well, we've been 189 00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:13,200 told that because nobody figured out how to predict them. But he might figure 190 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,919 it out. That's interesting. So so I always I always remembered that, 191 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,519 and I was always kind of disturbed by people's reactions to his work, and 192 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,919 it wasn't until oh maybe what it was it twenty fifteen, just a couple 193 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,519 of years ago. Now, I think there was an earthquake in Chile in 194 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:37,840 Japan where they captured earthquake lights on security cameras and um. And so now, 195 00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:41,600 actually, if you google earthquake lights, you'll see articles about earthquake lights 196 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,039 and who are they interviewing, Well, they're interviewing the only expert in the 197 00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,080 world on earthquake lights. Who was Friedman Freun? This one guy, this 198 00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:50,799 one guy who had the gut, who had the guts to study it, 199 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:54,320 which I which I was really impressed by. I thought, that's that's really 200 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:00,039 interesting. So so when I did encounter in the possibility of studying UFOs, 201 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,240 I thought, well, you know, this is clearly this is going to 202 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,960 be risky and people are going to have mixed opinions, scientists especially, You're 203 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,759 going to have varying opinions on this, not all positive. But you know, 204 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:17,559 as long as I as long as I research this carefully like I would 205 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:23,639 any other scientific topic, and UM, then I don't see what I'm doing 206 00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:26,519 wrong. I can't. I'm not doing anything wrong. It's hard for anybody 207 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,360 to really criticize me. I mean, they may try, and they may 208 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:34,120 succeed to some degree, you know, socially, But but there's I think 209 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,039 this is a good, good path and somebody has to study these things. 210 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:45,799 And and right now, you know, from a from a career perspective, 211 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,519 it's potentially damaging, you know, if I go on and on and start 212 00:16:51,559 --> 00:16:55,080 spouting off things that I don't really have data for, which I'm very careful 213 00:16:55,159 --> 00:17:00,919 not to do. But in the event that I do collect or you know, 214 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,039 we start to understand what these things are, I'll be one of the 215 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:07,680 only experts in the world who really understand these things scientifically. And that's a 216 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,160 good position to be in. So I don't see anything. I don't see 217 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,720 any reason not to study them. In fact, this is precisely the topic 218 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:18,640 that if I walked away from it, I can see myself kicking myself in 219 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,519 the future, you know, like, what were you doing walking away from 220 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:27,240 this? Who would walk away from it? Is potentially one of the biggest 221 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,680 discoveries in human history. You know, I don't I can't say what they 222 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,799 you know, what these things are. They appear to be structured craft, 223 00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:38,079 you know, are they extraterrestrial or not, we don't know for sure. 224 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:42,079 And if they are, it's a huge discovery, and if they aren't, 225 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,319 it's still a huge discovery. So I don't see, I don't see any 226 00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:52,240 way to lose here, right, And I would argue that it would be 227 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:57,319 the biggest discovery, you know, ever made by mankind. Oh I would 228 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:03,079 think so too. Yeah, yeah, you know it's And thank you for 229 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:08,319 for for doing this, actually taking the risk, because uh, you know, 230 00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:14,720 like I mentioned in the intro, you know a lot of people would 231 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,480 not ever look into this or think it's a silly topic, just like the 232 00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:22,720 earthquake lights, and you know, it's it's there. It seems to be 233 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:29,160 going in the direction where more people are taking this a little bit more seriously, 234 00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:32,240 you know. I mean I had the sighting I had, I couldn't 235 00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:34,319 explain what it was, and that's what made me curious, and that's what 236 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:41,359 makes me have the show today. And it's it's and I'm not saying I 237 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,519 know anything closer to what they actually are than I did when I started, 238 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:52,240 but it's still a fascinating topic and one with you know, so many possibilities. 239 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,519 And anyway, I'm really glad that you're taking this seriously. And one 240 00:18:56,519 --> 00:19:00,000 of the arguments that I've heard people talk about when it comes to science and 241 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:07,200 taking this seriously is the fund money. Like, if you can't resolve something 242 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,039 within a certain period of time, then there's no such thing as funding for 243 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,359 it. And I do understand that. And it's not something that can be 244 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,880 replicated easily. It just either happens or it doesn't happen. It's fleeting. 245 00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:26,440 So what are your thoughts on all that. My thoughts are we are trying 246 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,039 to get funding from private sources. I've done a lot of research without funding. 247 00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:36,039 You kind of do it on the side in your spare time and do 248 00:19:36,079 --> 00:19:40,880 the pusp you can. It means that you can't buy equipment usually, you 249 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,680 can't travel places to meet with other people who aren't studying it. You have 250 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,680 to pay for those things out of pocket, which I've done before and I 251 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,839 can. I'm doing that again now. So I think it's important to study 252 00:19:53,880 --> 00:20:00,400 this. These you know, we've known culturally, we've known about these options 253 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,640 for you know, since the nineteen forties, but the sightings go back much 254 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:11,799 further than that. And and clearly this is important and the it's unfortunate that 255 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:18,519 the attitude of the scientific community is that this study of these objects is unscientific, 256 00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:27,160 and it's ironic that that attitude inhibits scientific studies. So just declaring something 257 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:33,440 unscientific means that you don't study it, which makes it stay unscientific. But 258 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:38,839 what that also does is it perpetuates a state of ignorance. And at this 259 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,599 point, you know, now we have enough evidence from the US Navy where 260 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:51,839 these things are interfering with aircraft, military aircraft during military operations. That's a 261 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,799 serious issue. And so now what do we do. We've perpetuated the state 262 00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:03,079 of ignorance for seventy years and that's incredly detrimental, and we don't know what 263 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,039 the situation is. The I don't I don't believe that these things are hostile. 264 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:11,480 Whatever they are, there doesn't appear to be much evidence that they're hostile. 265 00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:15,559 But if they wanted to be hostile, we would be in big trouble. 266 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:22,759 And so so this is potentially one of the biggest safety or security issues 267 00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:26,880 we've ever come across. And again, people aren't people aren't paying attention, 268 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,279 and I know people in the military are surprised that the Navy and the other 269 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:33,640 military branches aren't that interested. I mean, this is something that we should 270 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,400 all if if they had, if they had a you know, a sickle 271 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,039 and a hammer painted on the side of one of these craft, we'd all 272 00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:44,519 be up in arms literally, I mean, we would be at war at 273 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:48,119 this point. Um. But that's not the case, and so people aren't 274 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,599 worried. But that's really pretty ridiculous, and so I don't. I think 275 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,400 it's this, you know, it's the belief that we this can't be possible, 276 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:03,039 which is no stopping us from understanding what the situation really is. And 277 00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:07,000 I think that's a pretty silly, um, pretty silly response on our part. 278 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,680 Have you heard of Stanton Friedman? Oh yes, yes, Well he 279 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,480 never had but I've never had the pleasure to meet him, but I've watched 280 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,839 several of his talks on YouTube. Yeah, he was a real gentleman. 281 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,039 One of his things that he liked to say is about the skeptics out there, 282 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:26,720 Well, if it was out, if this was happening, I would 283 00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:29,359 know about it, you know. I mean that's kind of you know, 284 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:36,759 the ego driven um uh, look at it. Unfortunately you know that that 285 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,640 you do here, not exactly in those words. But um that that kind 286 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,680 of sums it up. And it's kind of surprising that setti Is does not 287 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:51,839 even want to admit, um that there's a possibility that we're being visited. 288 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,000 You know, well, I think they're there there, um there. They, 289 00:22:56,079 --> 00:23:00,400 like many areas and science, are worried about funding exactly for them, 290 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:07,799 they've they've been on the fringe for since their inception, and they try to, 291 00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:11,400 you know, mitigate the degree to which they're on the fringe. And 292 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,759 I think that's why they stay away from it. And now at this point 293 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:18,000 it's just cultural um. But it's But it's for me, it's surprising because 294 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:27,039 I know of of serious scientific efforts in Citi to look for extraterrestrial artifacts in 295 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:30,440 the Solar System, on the Moon, on Mars, on asteroids, and 296 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:37,480 at the Earth associated the Grunge points. So there are active searches for artifacts 297 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,480 in the Solar System. But are they in our atmosphere? No, not 298 00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:45,640 possible. That's kind of that's kind of ridiculous. You know, if somebody 299 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,000 is seeing something unusual, you're gonna want to check it out. Um. 300 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,480 On one hand, it's it's unfortunate, But on the other hand, I 301 00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:59,839 see it as this is an opportunity for me and the other scientists now who 302 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,640 are getting into this because there are others and this leaves the field wide open 303 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,240 for us to make the discovery. So that's right now, it's fine. 304 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,240 Right now, it's fine with me. They can keep listening to radio radios, 305 00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:17,400 listening for radio stations and I'm gonna I'm gonna track down some of these 306 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:37,519 craft that. All right, everyone, welcome back. This is Martin Willis 307 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:42,480 and my guest this evening is Kevin Canuth. And we were talking about SETTI 308 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:48,039 when we went into the break and I had seth shot Stack on this show, 309 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,559 um a few times and we always get into the debate of UFOs, 310 00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:59,559 and oh boy, some listeners get really angry about because he's very good, 311 00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:02,559 he's a he's very bright, he's he's funny, he's a nice guy. 312 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,079 UM, but um, you know, basically his argument is that, you 313 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,279 know, he needs physical evidence, lots and lots of physical evidence, enough 314 00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:15,039 to fill At one time he told me he needed to fill a wing, 315 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,960 We needed to fill a wing in the Smithsonian before he would take this seriously. 316 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,240 And I said, well, what about dark matter? How much evidence 317 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,599 do you have of that, and he said, well, yeah, you 318 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,240 know, he had all kinds of evidence of that, and um, but 319 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,559 anyway, it's it's useless to argue with someone that already has their mind made 320 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,200 up, you know. Yeah, And I think I think the other problem 321 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:45,240 that you run into is that astronomers, especially are have a we each have 322 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:51,440 a personal history where we've had to argue against pseudoscience like astrology. Well yes, 323 00:25:51,559 --> 00:25:55,799 and I think as as educators, we're trained to you know, we're 324 00:25:55,839 --> 00:26:03,119 trained to not you know, not being tolerant of that kind of ignorance and 325 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,559 to you know, try to set people straight. And so I think that 326 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,920 a lot of times when you see, especially some of these prominent popular scientists 327 00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:18,920 speaking about UFOs, they have in their minds that this is a pseudoscience, 328 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,839 and so there they really feel that it's their duty to set people straight. 329 00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:30,039 Unfortunately, it's this hasn't been Unlike astrology, which which had been looked at 330 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,680 for a long time and you know, morphed into astronomy, this hasn't been 331 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,599 studied well. And that's really the big difference. And I think it's important 332 00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:42,920 for them to keep that in mind. Now there is some evidence, and 333 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,680 I think there's enough evidence for us to look at it more closely. There's 334 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,920 not enough evidence for us to say, yes, they are definitely extraterrestrial, 335 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:56,440 Yes they're definitely aliens. But there is some evidence that these things do appear 336 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:03,079 to be structured craft. And that's concerning. And what about you know, 337 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,319 there there are claims. I don't know what I think about the claims, 338 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,559 but there are many claims going all the way back to Roswell that there's been 339 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,079 crashed vehicles. And you know, the argument often you hear about that is 340 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,759 how could they travel you know, light years away or whatever it is to 341 00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:19,960 get here and then crash here. You know, it's a ridiculous that type 342 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,480 of thing. You know, there's and and I don't really know if that's 343 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:27,240 so, if you know, someone like Bob Lazarre actually did see you know, 344 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:32,839 a craft, if that the government has tucked away you know, I 345 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:36,640 don't I've said many times in the show that I don't really buy that, 346 00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:41,839 and a lot of people really stand behind Bob Lazarre, so um expecting hate 347 00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:47,759 mail already for saying that. But anyway, what are your thoughts, dude? 348 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:55,880 And I do believe that TTSA is saying that they they have some crashed 349 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,440 saucerer or crashed UFO material that's going to be expose soon. And also in 350 00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:06,880 the movie Phenomenon, the Phenomenon that is supposedly there's going to be something revealed 351 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,119 in that as well. What's your thoughts on that whole topics. So I've 352 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,759 I've had to kind of adopt this degree of belief where I kind of rank 353 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,799 what I hear from people, because I know, in communication with people who 354 00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:26,759 are you know, formerly with the with the Pentagon or former former Navy people 355 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:33,480 and other scientists. And if I hear something from one person or maybe you 356 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:37,279 know, two people, then and I consider it to be a rumor. 357 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,559 If I hear it from many people, you know, supported from many different 358 00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:45,440 angles, with different pieces of evidence, then you know, I take it 359 00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:48,920 more a little more strongly. So at this point, I guess I've I've 360 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,400 heard rumors from various people that we have crush craft in our possession, and 361 00:28:53,480 --> 00:29:00,000 so I I suspect that we It's it's possible that we did. I don't 362 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:03,880 I don't know any of the details I've heard. I've heard some details, 363 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,279 but I don't know how true they are. And so I kind of take 364 00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:11,680 that with a grain of salt, but I basically tuck this away is this 365 00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:15,000 might be true. Um, And that's the I think the best I can 366 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:18,799 do in this kind of situation where you're hearing anecdotal evidence from various people who 367 00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:23,519 do have access to these sorts of things, and it's a difficult um. 368 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,880 So this is a difficult subject to tread. Um. You know, is 369 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,480 it possible that craft could have come here? I think it's possible. And 370 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,440 you know, is it possible that you've had craft here and have crashed? 371 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,519 I think that's possible too. Earth is Earth is going to be a relatively 372 00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:47,240 hostile place, and so you know, it's not like flying around Mars and 373 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:52,559 so um, and flying around Mars isn't that easy either. We've had we've 374 00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,240 had crash craft on Mars. So I don't you know, I expect I 375 00:29:56,279 --> 00:30:00,480 expect that, you know, somebody who's mastered interstellar travel to some cree is 376 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,680 going to be you know, better at this and probably have fewer crushes. 377 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,880 But the other, the other um in fact that we don't know is we 378 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,559 don't you know, if if these things are structured craft from somewhere else, 379 00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:18,079 we don't know how many structured craft are present on Earth at any time. 380 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,839 I actually had the I was at the s at the SCU meeting in Huntsville 381 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,519 last year. Um, during lou Alisando's talk, I had the chance to 382 00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:32,160 ask him that question. I asked if they if they had any estimates as 383 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,640 to how many crush I mean, how many craft were present on Earth at 384 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:41,519 any time, and um, they he didn't have an answer for me. 385 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:45,000 And in fact, um he wanted to ask that question himself. And so 386 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,680 we don't know. Are there ten of these things on Earth at present? 387 00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:52,319 On Earth at any time? Are there a hundred of them or a thousand 388 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:55,799 of them? Ten thousand? We don't know. But if you have, 389 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,839 if you have a large number of them, you know, a thousand of 390 00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:03,279 the things on Earth at any time, then the probabilities for a crash go 391 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480 up. You know, So the probability of having a crash is going to 392 00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:11,799 be proportional to the number of objects flying around, right and and especially especially 393 00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:15,079 in the New in New Mexico at you know, at the time in New 394 00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:21,359 Mexico that's you know, this is the nineteen forties, and so we were 395 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,960 developing nuclear weapons at the time we were doing missile tests. Um, we 396 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,839 were doing testing a lot of things, and from some of the government documents 397 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,720 that I've seen, you know, we knew that there were these unidentified objects 398 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,279 present and they had actually contracted, um, contracted people to look for them, 399 00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:47,240 and so but we don't know. You know, it's possible they were 400 00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:52,640 trying actively trying to shoot them down and or take them down in some way. 401 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,799 And if that's if that's, if that's the situation, then um, 402 00:31:56,279 --> 00:32:00,440 then they might not have just just craft we crashed. We might have actually 403 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,039 brought some of these things down. So there's a lot of there's a lot 404 00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,880 of questions here, but it's they really depend on, you know, what 405 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,480 we actually know about whether these things are really craft, whether how many are 406 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:17,720 present on Earth at any time, what they what these craft are up to. 407 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:23,480 They're often seen in sensitive areas we know about you know, incursions and 408 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:30,519 nuclear weapon sites are quite prevalent, and um, you know, so if 409 00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:34,759 these things are coming to Earth and hanging out in sensitive military areas, well, 410 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,880 you might expect some of them to crash. That's going to happen. 411 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:45,480 I know there were speculation early on that you know, perhaps radar affected somehow 412 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,480 affected them, you know, I mean, of course this is all speculation. 413 00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:53,400 Of course, yeah, it's all speculations. It's not it's not clear 414 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,519 what the situation. It's not clear. It's not clear what the situation is. 415 00:32:57,559 --> 00:33:00,400 And it's not clear how many crashes they're actually have been either, you 416 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,640 know, if any. So it's it's it's all. This is all very 417 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,119 problematic because we don't have a lot of evidence. We have a lot of 418 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:14,799 anecdotal evidence, and um, you've got what I call a low low signal 419 00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:17,200 in the noise ratio, where you've got a lot of noise that's coming from 420 00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:29,119 misinformation, disinformation mistakes, um, people you know, promoting fraud and making 421 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,559 up stories and all sorts of things. So it's really it's a horrible mess 422 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:39,039 that you really can't begin to resolve by you know, looking at pass cases. 423 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:44,359 The only way to really get anywhere is to go out and try to 424 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,160 collect data on these things ourselves, you know, currently, I think that's 425 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,200 the only way to proceed at this point. If you try to go chase 426 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,480 pass cases and you know, interview witnesses and that, Yeah, it's fun 427 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,960 and interesting, but scientifically, it's not going to get you anywhere scientifically, 428 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,279 Yeah, the magic word. And you know, I never thought of the 429 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,720 numbers game when you're talking to how many are here? So now I'm going 430 00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:09,480 to ask you a question I've asked a number of people on this show, 431 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:20,280 especially with your background. There is there are people that have speculated that are 432 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,840 the science has speculated that there could be you know, possibly millions of planets 433 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:32,360 out there in just this maybe even billions with intelligent life and just this galaxy. 434 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,079 And why why would they be coming here? That's the question I have. 435 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,719 What makes us so special? If we're just part of a chain of 436 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:49,360 up to you know, millions of planets that have intelligent life, you know, 437 00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:53,400 perhaps beyond ours, why why not come here? How much money do 438 00:34:53,440 --> 00:35:00,239 we spend studying things on Earth? Exactly? I I mean a lot. 439 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,679 I mean all of our scientific research happens on Earth, and we still are 440 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,239 finding things to look at. I don't I don't see any problem with coming 441 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,880 with Earth. Earth is fascinating. Earth is interesting, and it's interesting to 442 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,280 us who live here. Um. Somebody who doesn't live here is going to 443 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:22,000 find it equally and more fascinating than that. UM. Where we've been fascinated 444 00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:25,760 with Mars. We've spent billions of dollars trying to get to Mars, and 445 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,679 um why Mars it's you know from the you know, photos from the surface 446 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:37,000 doesn't look that interesting, but we're still we're still fascinated by it. I 447 00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:40,239 think that, you know, if we found life on another planet and in 448 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,440 another nearby solar system, we'd be working like crazy to get there, and 449 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,280 we'd be collecting all the data we could from that place. And if we 450 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:52,840 found life on ten sold different solar systems nearby, we'd be collect trying to 451 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,320 collect data on all ten of them. I don't I think that it's really 452 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:02,159 naive to assume that Earth is uninteresting. I remember there was there was Stanton 453 00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:08,079 Freeman had complained about. I think one physicist had talked about a UFO sighting 454 00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:15,960 where the where somebody saw beings walking around in a meadow, investigating doing something 455 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,840 in a meadow. And the scientist said, why would you come all this 456 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,760 way to walk to poke around in a meadow? I thought, where else 457 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,320 are you going to poke around? What an interesting place that would be if 458 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,679 you were from another world, I would I could spend I could spend hours 459 00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:34,119 in an alien meadow if you put me there, So I don't. I 460 00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:37,559 don't. I don't know why people's brains kind of go out the window when 461 00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:42,480 they encounter this problem. Earth is interesting, and it's going to be more 462 00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,119 interesting for somebody who isn't from here. I don't see a problem with on 463 00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:50,960 Okay, that's that's really good point. I appreciate that. I would think 464 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,400 that, you know, possibly where they're from, what could be equally interesting 465 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,199 as well. Possibly, And yeah, you know what do we I forget 466 00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:04,400 how many millions of species we have on Earth, But there's a lot, 467 00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:08,239 and there's a lot going on, and it's and it's certainly by Earth is 468 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,400 very diverse, which is interesting. Now if if there is life on Mars, 469 00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:20,199 which we haven't resolved that issue yet, it's very probably microbial, and 470 00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:23,679 and the diversity there isn't clearly isn't as great as it is on Earth. 471 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:29,400 We know that much. So, so even though life may exist all over 472 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:35,039 the universe and maybe maybe um intelligent life all over UM, we don't know 473 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,719 how diverse, you know, many of the other planets are, We still 474 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,719 don't. We still wouldn't know how unique Earth is, you know, until 475 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,039 we have some idea of what life is like elsewhere, and what various things 476 00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:52,079 can happen. It could turn out that Earth is a very still a very 477 00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:58,320 unique place. Um, we run, we run between this this bipolar way 478 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,760 of looking at us and looking at humanity and looking at Earth. You know, 479 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,760 in one hand, we're the center of the universe, and then we 480 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,960 realize, oh, we're not, and we kind of flip over to how 481 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:12,679 we're probably not interesting at all, And the next minute we're we're the center 482 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,280 of the universe again. And I it's such a binary way of looking at 483 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:22,280 things, and it isn't binary. These places are all interesting. Speaking of 484 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:28,480 binary, since since you have your background, most most solar systems are aren't 485 00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:30,960 aren't they? Um? And how would that how would you think that would 486 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:37,719 affect a life evolving differently? Oh, that's a good question. We don't. 487 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:44,480 UM. This is really an exciting era in human discovery because we are 488 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:52,000 as especially as an astronomer and an astrophysicist, I really feel that we are 489 00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:57,079 for the first time, really beginning to get an understanding of what the universe 490 00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:01,400 is actually like. And UM, the you know, the exploration of the 491 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:07,559 Solar system really happened during my lifetime. I was born in May of nineteen 492 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:10,800 sixty five, and the first mariner fly by of Jupiter, of Jupiter, 493 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,840 sorry of Mars happened in July July fifteenth, nineteen sixty five, I believe. 494 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,800 And then it was literally fifteen years later to the day that we had 495 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:27,639 new horizons fly past Pluto. So so the last fifty years we've explored our 496 00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:31,920 solar system. That's phenomenal, and it's been a great pleasure and privilege to 497 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:37,239 be alive during that time and watch it happened. But now we're starting to 498 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,159 find out about planets around other stars and what are other star systems like, 499 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,920 And we're starting to be able to look at spectra from these planets and identify 500 00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:50,400 chemical constituents, and we might be able to identify an oxygen atmosphere at some 501 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,559 point and say that that world's probably alive like Earth. And it's very exciting 502 00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:59,480 and I and I think that it's important to realize that we really don't know 503 00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:02,519 anything yet. We don't really have any you know, we have some ideas 504 00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:07,239 of what it's like out there, but those ideas are really very naive, 505 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,280 and I think that's important to keep in mind. Exactly and do you think 506 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:16,800 that James Webb telescope is going to be able to have us discover more ways 507 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:22,840 to look for life out there. Yeah, certainly. Well, and you 508 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,920 know, each of these telescopes going up and new missions that are currently on 509 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:34,840 the drawing board are going to be be very very interesting and very exciting. 510 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,719 We're going to there's a lot to learn, and we're going to learn a 511 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,719 lot. It's going to be very very thrilling. Ride I was. I 512 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,440 was thrilled to actually get to see that being worked on with men in white 513 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:53,360 suits and you know, protective gear working on that at Goddard. I think 514 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,559 it was four years ago, now, yeah, that's about I was like 515 00:40:57,679 --> 00:41:00,679 Goddard about four years ago too, and I got to see it as well. 516 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,119 It was really exciting. It was exciting missing and thinking, Wow, 517 00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:07,119 that thing's going to be in space and I'm going to be analyzing data from 518 00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:10,199 it at no time. That's really great. Yeah, yeah, that is 519 00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:15,320 amazing. And you know, actually I was down there visiting a Ray Stanford 520 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,559 who listens to the show a lot, and his wife was working over at 521 00:41:20,559 --> 00:41:24,559 Goddard, and I was surprised that a couple of people there actually are interested 522 00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:29,360 in the UFO topic and talk about it openly. What was it like when 523 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,719 you were at NASA? Did that subject ever come up? No, it 524 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,599 didn't come up, And the few times I tried to bring it up, 525 00:41:36,639 --> 00:41:39,880 it was really pretty much shot down as being ridiculous, and I and I 526 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,119 always felt kind of some bad about that. I had hoped that people would 527 00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:51,880 be more open to that possibility and interested, but it didn't really didn't appear 528 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,880 to be the case. Yeah, I've I've I've read about Ray Stanford and 529 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,719 I would really like to meet him. He sounds like a very interesting person, 530 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,760 and I also have a past history of liking paleontology too, So thanks 531 00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:08,599 even doubly more exciting. Oh that is? That is. I hope he's 532 00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:13,960 listening tonight and he calls in. I'll give him a nudge when we get 533 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,000 to our second break. Oh, I'd love to I'd love to be in 534 00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:20,199 contact with him. That would be grateful. I can definitely definitely arrange that. 535 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,159 I'm sure he'd love to be in contact with you as well. I 536 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:30,159 know his discoveries of those the footprints. I think there was unknown species he 537 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:36,599 discovered and just amazing and actually right near the grounds of Goddard, which is 538 00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:40,320 really that's so remarkable. I know, what really amazes me about that is 539 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:46,519 that the rocks in that area were not thought to be able to have fossils. 540 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,679 And it really just shows how, you know, we can fall into 541 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,360 these traps of thinking that we know, we know the situation scientifically, where 542 00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,679 we really don't. Um, if you don't look into these things, you 543 00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:02,000 you know, if you don't study something, you aren't going to make the 544 00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:07,880 discovery. And you know, and he, you know, when he stumbled 545 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,639 on, you know, some of these footprints and you know, had the 546 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,000 visual acuity to recognize that, wait a minute, that's a footprint and and 547 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,239 and wasn't concerned about the you know, the type of rocks and whether that 548 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,119 was you know, thought to be possible or not. And um, and 549 00:43:23,159 --> 00:43:27,119 that allowed him to make the breakthrough, which is really fantastic. But I 550 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,039 and I think that's a it's a good lesson that we have to keep learning. 551 00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:35,760 You we it's very easy to assume that we know everything already and the 552 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,119 fact as we don't. We've always thought that as a species, haven't we. 553 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,239 Yeah, it's very we're very egotistical, We're very egotistical. This way. 554 00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:50,599 Yeah, like we are the center of the universe and the Sun goes 555 00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:53,199 around us, and you know, it just keeps going on and on or 556 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:59,480 not and and and just just to think and only I don't know, was 557 00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:01,800 just over one hundred years ago we didn't know there was such a thing as 558 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,880 other galaxies, you know, which is that's right exactly? Yeah, really 559 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,519 amazing dark matter and dark matter and dark energy or now on the you know, 560 00:44:10,519 --> 00:44:15,440 on the forefront of discovery, you know, and the dark matter comprises 561 00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:20,400 looks like it comprises about seventy percent of the universe. And what that means 562 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,239 is that we are ignorant as to what seventy percent of the universe is even 563 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:29,840 made of, which is mind boggling. So it's you know, it's this 564 00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:34,400 is it's very humbling. Do you think, you know, not to take 565 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,440 too much of a jack from the topic that we're talking about, but do 566 00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:42,960 you think there are possibilities that perhaps we don't know? Ray Stamford just wrote 567 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:49,119 he is listening wonderful hello, so hopefully he'll be one of the callers when 568 00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:55,119 we take calls coming up. Do you think that there is a possibility that 569 00:44:55,159 --> 00:45:00,519 we don't know something about gravity? Or something else that makes us think that 570 00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:04,400 there is a dark matter and dark energy out there. I mean, do 571 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,599 you think it's could be a flaw in the way we're looking at things, 572 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,119 or do you think it's actually has to be something. I think the situation 573 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,960 is very delicate because we have a great deal of evidence that there's something amiss 574 00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:25,599 with gravity, and that at the moment, it appears that the explanation that 575 00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:30,360 there's other mass out there that we don't know anything about, invisible mass that 576 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,400 we don't know anything about, appears to be the most plausible explanation. Where 577 00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:42,719 I would urge caution is the the fact that we have several different pieces of 578 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,000 evidence. You know, one is the you know, the bullet cluster and 579 00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:52,119 the behavior of the invisible matter there, and you'll have other you have other 580 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:59,880 situations as well. It we have made the assumption that those are all representative 581 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:05,079 of the same phenomenon, and it's possible that they're not all the same phenomenon. 582 00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:08,320 There could be there. We could be wrong on many points. There 583 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,000 could be a kind of matter out there that we don't know anything about, 584 00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:15,639 dark matter. It could be that we are also wrong about gravity, and 585 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,960 you know, it's not again, it's not a binary situation, and I 586 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,239 think that that's something to keep in mind when you go forward in these directions. 587 00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:29,800 Most people that have your background are pretty solid on the Big Bang theory, 588 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,960 and I would guess that you probably are too. Yeah, I am 589 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,239 pretty much Yeah, And there really can't be as far as we can figure 590 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,960 out, there can't be any other answer for how things begin. But it's 591 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:52,480 still if you really dissect that, it's how can something start from basically nothing 592 00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:59,480 type of thing. It's it's a bizarre situation, and at one at that 593 00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:02,960 level, it's a bizarre theory. You know, even even even as a 594 00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:07,480 theorist looking at this, it's bizarre that you could have, you know, 595 00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:12,480 this whole universe come out of a quantum fluctuation. You know, I would, 596 00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:16,119 I guess I would worry that any other quantum fluctuation a being could create 597 00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:20,599 another university of the time, you know what that might do to this one 598 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,039 or not. You know, you worry about these things. And because it 599 00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:30,159 is bizarre, the the facts that you know, there's a lot of um 600 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,679 evidence that gives you faith in that theory though, and that's you know, 601 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,440 the fact that you know the galaxies are the universe is expanding. UM. 602 00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:44,880 You run it backwards and it will contract, right, So it came from 603 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,440 something that was much more compact. That's clear. You know, you can 604 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:59,039 calculate the um. You can calculate the expected um um, the expected um 605 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,400 um mounts of hydrogen and helium and other elements in the universe, you know, 606 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,320 from the theory, and those those do agree UM. I was talking 607 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:15,159 to another UM another physicist today who's looking at data from LEGO and UM where 608 00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:19,280 we found that there are a lot of black holes out there, which is 609 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:25,159 really surprising to me and UM these he It turns out that from you know, 610 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,199 from one of the phase transitions that you get from the Big Bang that 611 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:37,679 you can related to quantum chromo chromodynamics, you can actually estimate the masses of 612 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,039 these primordial black holes, and they come out the estimates come out to be 613 00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:45,159 about twenty five solar masses, which is what we're finding, you know, 614 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:51,239 in the data from the new gravitational wave detectors from LEGO. So you know 615 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,559 that, so there's a lot of evidence that we've got a lot right about 616 00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:59,719 the Big Bang. UM where it came from. You know, what happens 617 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,119 at the singularity is a is a big mystery, you know, is that 618 00:49:02,599 --> 00:49:07,119 you know, is that a quantum fluctuation is at an act of creation? 619 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:12,280 Is that you know what nobody knows and we probably will never know, but 620 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,000 it's um. But you're right, you're right. It's a very interesting question. 621 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:21,920 And you know, did time begin then? I mean, that's one 622 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,599 of the things that's that's the idea. The idea is that time and space 623 00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:30,320 both began then. So what asking what was before is kind of meaningless in 624 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,679 some sense, and things get very very complicated, you know. From that 625 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,880 perspective. We're going into breaking about one minute here. But since we're on 626 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,800 this topic, just one of the things that you just mentioned black holes, 627 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,480 And one of the I always like to talk to an astronomer about black holes 628 00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:53,679 because I think they're fascinating. And one of the things that I realized only 629 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:59,440 like a year ago or maybe even less, was that a black hole can't 630 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,840 really be have any more gravity than what was there initially, like, for 631 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,519 instance, a collapse star. You can only have amount of gravity as a 632 00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:13,679 collapse star. Generally speaking, these do these things move through space or there 633 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,880 are some that are moving through space? Well, well, you can't really 634 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,440 talk about anything being at rested space. So everything's moving relative to something else, 635 00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:27,719 So things do move around. Yeah, okay, the stars are moving. 636 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,320 The stars are moving relative to one another, and so these black holes 637 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:35,079 are probably as well. Okay, so all right, let me just ask 638 00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,239 it this way. Then, say that there was a black hole, Uh, 639 00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:45,800 that this collapse of a star became a black hole. Would that there 640 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,159 was no reason for that to move any more than it would have when it 641 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,840 was the sun? Is would there be any reason for it to move? 642 00:50:54,079 --> 00:51:00,920 Um, if you had a star that then went supernova and then collapsed into 643 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,920 a black hole, it would be continue to be moving relative to other things 644 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,480 at that same velocity. So yeah, that wouldn't That wouldn't change, It 645 00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:13,440 wouldn't change. Okay, all right, Well, uh, that's that's probably 646 00:51:13,559 --> 00:51:15,559 enough people want to hear about black holes and all that stuff anyway, So 647 00:51:16,320 --> 00:52:45,800 we are We're going to go into the break, all right, and welcome 648 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:51,320 back. My guest tonight is Kevin Knuth, PhD. And we were talking 649 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,360 about the dreaded black holes. I hope they don't find our solar system and 650 00:52:57,079 --> 00:53:00,239 wipe us out someday. You know, before we talking about other things, 651 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,159 just just one other thing. When we were talking about the Big Bang, 652 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,159 do you think it's a possibility that it could be a cycle that's happened before 653 00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:15,280 and can happen again, like expansion and then maybe contraction, and you know, 654 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:21,639 I mean anything possible. I think yeah, in that sense, I 655 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,960 think everything's possible. Anything's possible. It's we just don't know, and and 656 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,639 that's been proposed, so it's it's it's an interesting question. We don't probably 657 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:35,599 won't ever really know. Well, yeah, one of the things that is 658 00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:40,519 kind of depressing is to find out that everything might uh everything might completely fall 659 00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:45,639 apart, you know, all all them all might just spread apart and everything. 660 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:51,119 Yeah, it's kind that's rather sad, right, Yeah, but I 661 00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:54,559 don't care how many billion years it is from now, you know, it 662 00:53:54,599 --> 00:53:59,840 would just be hard to uh, it's still could be depressing to think about. 663 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:06,280 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, let's get into your I want 664 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:07,960 to get into a couple of things and this part of the show before we 665 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:15,880 take calls and a half hour, and that is the characteristics of these anomalous 666 00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:20,440 vehicles. Can you get into that kind of in a nutshell and what you 667 00:54:20,599 --> 00:54:24,639 came up within that white paper, right, So we looked at in that 668 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:30,840 paper. I looked at UM several cases. Two of the cases where there 669 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:36,920 was UM you know, where there was radar data or UM in the infrared 670 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:42,679 images from the Nimits encounters in two thousand and four and UM. We also 671 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,519 had a case from Graham Bethoon in nineteen fifty one where he was able to 672 00:54:47,079 --> 00:54:52,599 UM. They were able to describe how fast the object came up at them 673 00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:57,920 from from the c surface, which was then corroborated later because it as it 674 00:54:58,119 --> 00:55:02,280 left by by radar from New So so I looked at these three cases to 675 00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:10,000 get some idea of how fast these objects are accelerating. So the most striking 676 00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:16,480 case was reported by UM by Kevin Day who was operating the radar radar on 677 00:55:16,519 --> 00:55:21,000 the USS Princeton in the Nimitz Carrier group in two thousand and four, and 678 00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:30,079 he was tracking UM tracking these objects operating at about twenty thousand feet and they 679 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:36,320 would periodically drop from round twenty eight or twenty thousand feet or so down to 680 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:42,960 sea level, and he was detecting them UM doing this in about point seven 681 00:55:43,039 --> 00:55:46,960 eight seconds, about three quarters of a second. So you basically have an 682 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:54,719 object accelerating from vertical rest in the vertical direction to sea level in um in 683 00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:00,400 three quarters of a second. So so then it's basically you know, elementary 684 00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:07,800 kinematics or physics to figure out what the accelerations would have to be for that 685 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:14,800 to happen. And so we basically did those calculations carefully by estimating uncertainties as 686 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,760 well, and we found that in that situation we had, these objects were 687 00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,400 had to you know, at minimum, they would have had to accelerate at 688 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:30,599 about five thousand, three hundred g's of acceleration to the halfway point and then 689 00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:34,480 they'd have to decelerate five thousand, three hundred g to come to rest. 690 00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:37,119 Now we don't know if that's the actual profile. We don't know if that's 691 00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:43,559 how they performed the maneuver because we don't have detailed the detailed radar and information 692 00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:49,119 on that. But that estimate gives you the minimum estimate for the acceleration. 693 00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:52,320 If they did something else that, what that would imply is at some point 694 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,800 they would have had to accelerate greater than that. And so we do know 695 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,800 that that's the situation. So five thousand g, what is five thousand g 696 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,400 like? Well, that's what I mean by that, But I mean as 697 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:07,880 it's that acceleration is five thousand times the acceleration of gravity. So you know, 698 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:12,599 if you imagine a fighter pilot pulling five g's, you know they're experiencing 699 00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:15,760 five times the acceleration of gravity. So if you weigh a one hundred pounds, 700 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,000 you're going to feel like you weigh five hundred pounds. And that's that's 701 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:24,119 hard to handle physiologically. Now, what about five thousand G? What would 702 00:57:24,119 --> 00:57:27,880 you look like? What would I look like standing up in one of these 703 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,360 craft accelerating at five thousand G? Well, all right, I'll be kind 704 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,039 to myself. Let's say I weigh two hundred pounds, all right, and 705 00:57:35,199 --> 00:57:42,119 the the so the upper half of my body you would then weigh about one 706 00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:45,440 hundred pounds. So if I were to accelerate at five thousand G, five 707 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:51,079 thousand the times the acceleration of gravity, then that means that my upper half 708 00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:53,920 of my body would feel like it weighed five thousand times one hundred pounds. 709 00:57:53,960 --> 00:58:00,280 So so you're talking that's so that's all a lot of weight. Um, 710 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:05,159 you're talking about half a million pounds, So it would be it would be 711 00:58:05,199 --> 00:58:07,880 as if the upper half of my body weighed half a million pounds, well 712 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,840 what happens to the lower half? Well, you can guess you put a 713 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,440 half a million pounds on top of me, and I'm going to be squished 714 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,159 into jelly. Um there's no way, there's no way I'm going to survive 715 00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:23,440 that. And so that's that's that acceleration is more than shocking. UM. 716 00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:30,320 Not not only would you not expect and and happened into biological and happen it 717 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,719 to be able to survive that, you also wouldn't expect equipment to handle and 718 00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,920 be able to handle that acceleration. So, just to put that in perspective, 719 00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:44,280 um our, you know, our missiles UM can typically only handle at 720 00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:49,880 most UM fifty g of acceleration. And even even in those situations, they 721 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,880 UM they can't maneuver at fifty g's of acceleration. They can maintain their maneuverability 722 00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:01,480 up to about thirty five g's, so that the best missiles we have UM 723 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,639 can really only withstand thirty five geese of acceleration and still operate properly. UM. 724 00:59:07,679 --> 00:59:13,840 So five thousand geese is really shocking. UM. How did some of 725 00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:21,480 the others compare well we found them the the infrared videos, so they they 726 00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:25,400 released, Um, the Navy released three videos of these these objects, and 727 00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:30,239 these are infrared videos, so they're they're infrared images, so they're blurry and 728 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:36,280 fuzzy, which is in some sense unfortunate because a lot of people looked at 729 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:37,440 them and said, well, I can't even tell what it is. It's 730 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:42,280 some blurry, fuzzy object. It could be anything. In fact, I've 731 00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,559 heard several prominent scientists say that publicly it could be anything. Um, well, 732 00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:50,480 it can't be anything. You know, you can rule things out. 733 00:59:50,519 --> 00:59:53,880 It's not a bird because the object is flying. The object at that point 734 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,440 is flying in front of the airplane, in front of the ten the f 735 00:59:58,599 --> 01:00:01,239 a teens, you know, going at something like two hundred and fifty knots. 736 01:00:01,719 --> 01:00:07,119 So it's not a seagull, you know that. And it's not a 737 01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:08,800 normal drone if it's a drone, because it's you know, it's not some 738 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:14,320 little propeller driven drone bosom guy with reboot control, because you're not going to 739 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:19,119 have that thing flying at two hundred fifty knots either. So in one particular 740 01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:25,519 video, the Nimitz video, there is a it's unfortunately, because we only 741 01:00:25,559 --> 01:00:30,119 got to see clips of these videos and the videos that were the pilots. 742 01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:36,760 When they talked about these things moving, I think Commander Favor described them as 743 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,599 bouncing around as if it was a ping pong ball inside of a glass jar, 744 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,280 you know, So these things were really moving in very strange ways. 745 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,920 We didn't get to see any videos like that. Then maybe didn't release any 746 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,880 videos like that if if they have them, which is unfortunate because that would 747 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,519 have been really interesting. What you do see is you see this in the 748 01:00:54,639 --> 01:00:59,800 Nimitz case. You see the object in front of the aircraft and then eventually 749 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:05,360 it moves off to the left um at you know, on the videos on 750 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,760 the video screen, it is not that impressive of a maneuver um but the 751 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:15,119 but of note, the missile, the the targeting systems do lose luck when 752 01:01:15,119 --> 01:01:20,159 that happens, which is surprising because those targeting systems are designed to on target 753 01:01:20,239 --> 01:01:23,800 missiles. So um, this thing clearly, it clearly was was an unusual 754 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:30,119 acceleration. So we we set about analyzing that acceleration and we found that acceleration 755 01:01:30,159 --> 01:01:34,760 to be about seventy five g's, so about seventy five times the acceleration of 756 01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,119 gravity, which is which is greater than the You know, many of our 757 01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:44,239 missiles could withstand their airframes weren't capable of withstanding that kind of accelerations. So 758 01:01:44,559 --> 01:01:50,360 that object was clearly interesting. Um So it was exciting because they they released 759 01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,760 with what visually looked like, you know, a pretty tame video, and 760 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,639 we were able to show that no, it's not tame at all. This 761 01:01:57,719 --> 01:02:02,880 is still an unusual craft and that's really around the low end of the scale 762 01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:10,239 we looked at them. The j AL sixteen twenty eight encounter that happened in 763 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:15,119 nineteen eighty six. I actually remember that one being on the nightly news. 764 01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:20,039 I remember watching Tom Brokaw talk about it, and I was very excited and 765 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:27,119 he basically, you had a pilot from this Japanese airliner they were flying and 766 01:02:27,199 --> 01:02:30,719 this is where the chuckle factor comes. And they were flying Boujeli Noveau from 767 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:35,639 Paris to Tokyo. So so y hahaha, yeah, no, No, 768 01:02:35,719 --> 01:02:38,960 the pilot isn't drunk. He doesn't drink the Boujeli nuva. Let's be serious, 769 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:45,000 it's in the cargo hold. So the pilots flying and they get they're 770 01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:51,800 flying across Alaska, and he basically encounters several strange craft in Alaska, and 771 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:57,440 one of these objects flies up at the airplane and according to the pilot, 772 01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:00,719 the object was so big he couldn't see out of the front windscreen without looking 773 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:06,519 at the object. So so when you have reports like that, you know, 774 01:03:06,679 --> 01:03:08,039 very often, you know, people will try to blow them off. 775 01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:10,760 Well, the pilot just didn't know what he was looking at. It was 776 01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:15,480 misidentification, you know, he you know, blah blah blah. Well that's 777 01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:21,639 it's not it's not nothing. If it fills your entire windscreen, then you 778 01:03:21,679 --> 01:03:27,679 then have to take notice and pay some attention. And so he actually requested 779 01:03:27,719 --> 01:03:32,800 to make maneuvers to avoid this object. And um, this object stayed some 780 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:37,039 distance away. I think it was something like was it seven kilometers away or 781 01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:43,599 something. It actually stayed some distance away from the aircraft. Yes, point 782 01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:46,480 five miles away. Actually, yeah, seven point five miles that's what it 783 01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:52,679 was. And um, but basically it would go from on the radar reports. 784 01:03:52,719 --> 01:03:55,360 The radar show is that going from something like one o'clock to six o'clock 785 01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:00,559 in twelve seconds with every weight radar, the radar sweep was about twelve seconds. 786 01:04:00,199 --> 01:04:03,039 And so this object is basically, you know, according to the radar, 787 01:04:03,199 --> 01:04:08,840 bouncing around the air the aircraft, the ged airplane, the seven forty 788 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:13,039 seven. So how so then the question is, how do you get from 789 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,239 one o'clock to six o'clock in twelve seconds? You know when that when the 790 01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,960 radius of this circle is seven point five miles, Well you can estimate the 791 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:27,079 accelerations there. So if you estimate it going straight across over either over the 792 01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:30,239 airplane or under the airplane, then you get an acceleration something like sixty eight 793 01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,760 g's of accelerations. So the thing would have to accelerate halfway and then decelerate 794 01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:38,480 the other half. If it goes around on the circle, basically goes around 795 01:04:38,519 --> 01:04:42,480 the airplane, you have to have an tangential acceleration of about eighty four g's. 796 01:04:43,239 --> 01:04:49,239 So again this thing is moving dramatically. The pilot described it as being 797 01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:56,840 about the size of it was the size of several several seven forty sevens there, 798 01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,920 like a giant walnut. So so basically the size of three seven forty 799 01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:08,280 sevens, you're talking about something the size of an aircraft carrier just flying around 800 01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:12,960 a seven forty seven. And this went on for this went on for almost 801 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,760 an hour. It was one hundred miles or something like three hundred miles. 802 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,840 It wasn't a quick sighting. It was yeah, this this went on for 803 01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:25,599 a long period of time, and you know, in the pilot and so 804 01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:28,519 so the other issue that then comes up is the question of air safety. 805 01:05:28,599 --> 01:05:32,119 You know that some of these encounters are not safe and the pilots don't feel 806 01:05:32,119 --> 01:05:35,119 safe, and that's that's a problem if your pilot is not feeling safe. 807 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:42,760 And so there's another reason to study these as well, so that that acceleration, 808 01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:45,079 you know, one of those accelerations, the sixty AG is actually at 809 01:05:45,079 --> 01:05:50,000 the low scale, you know, So we've got these craft accelerating anywhere between 810 01:05:50,079 --> 01:05:56,519 sixty eight g's up to five thousand geese of acceleration. And the problem is 811 01:05:56,559 --> 01:05:59,679 we really don't know how. First, we don't know how these things are 812 01:05:59,679 --> 01:06:03,239 flying in the first place, umps because they don't have flight surfaces, they 813 01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:09,840 don't have obvious control surfaces, they don't have um an obvious power plant. 814 01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:13,199 So it's not clear you know, where the where the thrust is coming from 815 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,679 to keep you know, to keep these things moving um and and that's especially 816 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,800 evidentto the infrared video. When you see that that um the tic TAC object 817 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,599 that they described as accelerating off to the left. You know, if it's 818 01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:31,039 it's accelerating at seventy five G and you don't see flames coming out of the 819 01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:34,719 thing. This is an infrared video. There's no extra heat being um dumped 820 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:39,559 into the environment. So how does this thing work? It's not clear at 821 01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:44,800 all. And I've heard criticisms, you know, people have criticized the analysis 822 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,440 saying, oh, well, you didn't know that. You don't really know 823 01:06:46,599 --> 01:06:50,119 that it was fifty feet across. That's what the pilots described. But the 824 01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:53,960 pilots could have been wrong, you know, maybe it was only five feet 825 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,119 across. And my answer to that, so, well, right, do 826 01:06:57,239 --> 01:07:00,960 the math, you know, don't just make the argument divert argument. You 827 01:07:00,039 --> 01:07:03,599 know, let's let's test this. Do the math. So let's assume that 828 01:07:03,679 --> 01:07:08,360 it's only five feet across. That would have put the object much closer, 829 01:07:09,239 --> 01:07:14,000 and you basically get a factor of ten less accelerations. So okay, so 830 01:07:14,159 --> 01:07:18,360 the thing accelerated at seven G instead of seventy five G. I'd still like 831 01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:23,079 to know how you take a five foot long object and accelerated at seven seven 832 01:07:23,159 --> 01:07:28,000 g of acceleration without any heat signature. You still have. This question is 833 01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:30,639 still there. You know, it doesn't go away. Even if the thing, 834 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,119 even if they if they were off on its size, if they were 835 01:07:33,199 --> 01:07:38,119 mistaken about its size by a factor of ten, the problem still exists. 836 01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:42,760 So, wow, this is serious. It's not it's not a joke, 837 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:47,480 and it can't be anything um and you can determine that by by doing the 838 01:07:47,559 --> 01:07:50,719 math, and and I can't. I find that disappointing when I hear some 839 01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,519 of our prominent scientists, you know, coming on and saying it could be 840 01:07:54,559 --> 01:07:57,119 anything. Well, none of them sat down and did the math. The 841 01:07:57,199 --> 01:08:01,079 math isn't especially hard to do. It's you know, first year physics didn't 842 01:08:01,079 --> 01:08:08,199 could do the math in some of these cases. And but we see these 843 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:13,880 prominent scientists making these blanket statements without having done the math, and that's professionally, 844 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,359 that's problematic. And I'm glad you. I'm glad you say that. 845 01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:23,159 And I hope if you get a chance to call them out and feel comfortable 846 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:27,600 to call them out, that you do. And I don't know what type 847 01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,680 of situation that would be, but I'm glad at least you are looking into 848 01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:35,359 this and put the effort into it. A two times you said the word 849 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:40,159 we that. So what do you mean by we were? There are a 850 01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:43,760 lot of people helping you with this situation. Oh, I did some of 851 01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,560 this work with Robert Powell and Peter Really who are with these with the scientific 852 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:54,319 Coalition for you UAP studies. So well, that's great. Um. You 853 01:08:54,399 --> 01:09:00,279 know, I had an email exchange a couple of days ago with PJ Use, 854 01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:05,520 who was involved in the Nimit's case, and he basically said before that, 855 01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:12,640 back when he was on the show, he was fifty fifty on whether 856 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,720 it was you know, special tech instead of you know, he's talking about 857 01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:21,319 the tik taks. And now he says he's sixty sixty forty that he thinks 858 01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:25,359 to tech. And so I contacted him, and you know, he told 859 01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:27,680 me a couple of things to keep under my hat. But he said, 860 01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,000 basically, you know, his thoughts of change, that it's more likely that 861 01:09:30,119 --> 01:09:34,119 it was tech. But I want to argue this or many things. Actually, 862 01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:41,039 I don't understand what tech we could possibly have today that could absorb the 863 01:09:41,159 --> 01:09:43,640 type of geez you're talking about. I mean, even a rock would have 864 01:09:44,079 --> 01:09:51,239 a problem then. Also, you talk about the j A L sixteen twenty 865 01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:56,880 eight, is it. Yeah, And when that happened, there was also 866 01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,159 g forces beyond what we could hand today, So that was back in nineteen 867 01:10:01,239 --> 01:10:05,279 ninety six. I believe in nineteen eighty six, nineteen eighty six, well, 868 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:10,439 the Bethune cases from nineteen fifty one, and that those estimates come out 869 01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:15,239 to about seventeen hundred G. That's nineteen fifty nineteen fifty one. Um, 870 01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,600 I think then. Yeah, so if we had any tech like that back 871 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:25,960 then, we certainly there's no way we wouldn't be using it before now. 872 01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,039 Yeah, that's my as my argument, You're gonna not gonna You're not gonna 873 01:10:30,079 --> 01:10:32,319 sit on technology like this for fifty years. That's a lot, that's a 874 01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:38,359 person's career. Nobody's gonna sit on that for fifty years. I find that 875 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:43,319 really pretty that's a difficult argument to swallow. Yeah, And and these things, 876 01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,279 these things have been seen since before we could fly in airplanes, so 877 01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,840 you've got that problem as well. Um, you can argue about the validity 878 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:54,760 of a lot of those observations, but I would argue that they're not they're 879 01:10:54,760 --> 01:11:00,319 not all ridiculous. So you've and and then they and those, and there's 880 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,319 many of those observations sound a lot like the ones that we have you know, 881 01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:09,039 that we've analyzed here. So so this is a really difficult situation. 882 01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,680 Well, thank you for doing that work. That paper is pretty intense, 883 01:11:15,079 --> 01:11:17,720 nineteen pages long. I'm going to try it for the listener out there. 884 01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,720 I'm going to try to put that up in the show notes on this show, 885 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:27,439 which will be up for a week on podcast ufo dot com, So 886 01:11:28,239 --> 01:11:31,760 wander over there. I'll try to do that this evening. It's a PDF, 887 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,479 and sometimes those are really hard to embed. I'm going to see if 888 01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:40,039 I can do that on my website, so check it out. Probably starting 889 01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:45,159 on Wednesday, the eleventh of this month, that's tomorrow, I might have 890 01:11:45,319 --> 01:11:48,560 that up and running. So so that will be available. Now, let's 891 01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:55,279 can I can I interject another another point, especially in the Bethoon case. 892 01:11:55,359 --> 01:12:00,279 So that was the nineteen fifty one case. Um the pilots and passengers estimated 893 01:12:00,359 --> 01:12:05,520 the thing left at a speed of about fifteen hundred miles an hour. That 894 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:11,239 was later confirmed by the Gander Center radar in Newfoundland to be eighteen hundred miles 895 01:12:11,239 --> 01:12:15,680 an hour, and that's nineteen fifty nineteen fifty one. So one. I 896 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,920 did some research on this and found that in nineteen fifty two, two years 897 01:12:19,079 --> 01:12:26,000 later, almost two years later, you had the air speed record UM from 898 01:12:26,279 --> 01:12:31,720 General J. Slade Nash flying F eighty six D saber was was made at 899 01:12:32,079 --> 01:12:35,399 six hundred ninety eight miles an hour. That was the air speed record in 900 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:41,560 nineteen fifty two. And radar and the pilot and passengers estimated this thing to 901 01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,079 be going about fifteen to eighteen hundred miles an hour. So these things are 902 01:12:45,119 --> 01:12:50,039 really anomalous, and it gets and there are numbalus to the point where it 903 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:55,520 it. As a physicist, I feel a lot of skepticism you have, 904 01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,520 you know, for the for the one that um Kevin Day tract and saw 905 01:13:01,039 --> 01:13:06,960 descend twenty thousand feet in point seven eight seconds, you're talking accelerations of about 906 01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:12,199 five thousand g. What that means is that at the midpoint the object has 907 01:13:12,279 --> 01:13:15,680 had to have been going about Mack sixty and so mark sixty is something like 908 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:21,640 forty five thousand miles an hour, which is which is faster than our fast 909 01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:27,119 some of our fastest spacecraft. New horizons that went to Pluto's only going thirty 910 01:13:27,159 --> 01:13:30,760 five thousand miles an hour. So this tic TAC in less than less than 911 01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,640 a third of a second accelerated to a speed greater than the probe that we 912 01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:39,760 sent to Pluto. And we got to also keep in mind, um of 913 01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,279 the friction of the atmosphere. Oh, well, that's the biggest that's that. 914 01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,039 As a physicist, that's the big worry. You expect there to be 915 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:51,279 a huge you know, you your first thought is sonic boom, but it's 916 01:13:51,319 --> 01:13:56,640 going to be much more than a sonic boom. We estimated the amount of 917 01:13:57,199 --> 01:14:00,439 energy release would have had to have been equivalent to about two hundred Tomahawk Missus 918 01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:04,560 cruise missiles going off at the same time. Wow, that's like, that's 919 01:14:05,079 --> 01:14:09,319 that's what you should have seen when that happened. But it didn't happen. 920 01:14:09,399 --> 01:14:12,479 That's not what we saw. We did. The thing moved through the air 921 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,479 like the air wasn't there, which is really, you know, from a 922 01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:19,640 physics and engineering perspective, really problematic and that and it leads you to question 923 01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,920 the data, leads you to question these results. You think, how is 924 01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,880 this even possible? But but you know, I'm going to I'm going to 925 01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:30,640 contend as I always have, but this is the data we have, and 926 01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,880 this is what people have been reporting for years, and I think it's time 927 01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:39,680 for us to pay some attention. Yeah, and for you know, someone 928 01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:45,319 out there pondering all this, think of the Chelibinsk meteor. What that caused, 929 01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,840 blowing out windows everywhere and in Russia when that came through the atmosphere, 930 01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:55,920 and that was you know, that was about that same speed forty thousand or 931 01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,520 so, that's probably, Yeah, it couldn't. It couldn't have been much. 932 01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,319 It couldn't be more much more more than sixty thousand miles an hour, 933 01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:05,399 So you can't be much more than that. Once you get into the ninety 934 01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:10,239 thousand mile an hour range, it's going to be interstellar. So it wouldn't 935 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,520 that wouldn't. It would have to be less than that, certainly, right. 936 01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:15,960 Yeah, So that's probably on that order of speed. And that's what 937 01:15:15,119 --> 01:15:17,880 you had happening, you know, And that's that meteor white was blowing out 938 01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,199 windows and entering people, and that's really what should have happened in this case, 939 01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:27,760 but that's not what's observed. And so so as I mean, I 940 01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,760 like, I like how the British. The British, I'm told, calls 941 01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:35,119 them those people because they of course we don't know who've created these craft and 942 01:15:35,199 --> 01:15:40,119 who who they are. And so assuming that the assuming these are structured pete 943 01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:43,039 craft, you know, you will call them those people. I like that 944 01:15:43,159 --> 01:15:46,319 phrase. So, whoever those people are, those people are really good engineers. 945 01:15:47,079 --> 01:15:50,319 They really know what they're doing, and I'd like I'd like to learn. 946 01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:55,079 I'd like to know how to do this, and um, because it's 947 01:15:55,119 --> 01:15:58,520 quite exciting. Yeah, there's the beam ahead. Have you ever heard of 948 01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:04,319 that? Of that? I don't know if it's a theory of technology that's 949 01:16:04,319 --> 01:16:09,479 supposed to supposed to do something. I think a Ray Stamford knows something about 950 01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:13,960 that. Maybe when he calls in we can ask him. But we only 951 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:15,399 have, you know, a few minutes before we're going to be turning on 952 01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:20,960 the phone line. So let's talk about your other work. Constraints on breakaway 953 01:16:21,039 --> 01:16:27,399 societies engage in relativistic interstellar travel. We're going to have to kind of do 954 01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:31,359 that in a nutshell if we possibly can't, we can try through that, 955 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,159 try to sum that up. Yeah, we can talk through the phone calls 956 01:16:34,279 --> 01:16:39,199 on that. Go back to it you never know how many we may get 957 01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,479 one or two phone calls, we may get more. We never know, 958 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,359 So why don't we get into that topic. Yeah, So one thing that 959 01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:51,239 had struck me is that physicists are known for a long time that if you 960 01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:57,479 could get a spacecraft up to relativistic speeds, and by that I mean some 961 01:16:58,079 --> 01:17:01,840 reasonable percentage of the speed of light, something like you know, above above 962 01:17:02,119 --> 01:17:09,079 thirty percent the speed of light um, then you can take advantage of the 963 01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:14,039 time dilation that you get from special relativity where your clucks slow down. Right. 964 01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:16,439 So, um, this is all related to the twin paradox. So 965 01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:23,119 the traveler doesn't age when he comes back to Earth and in that problem, 966 01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,760 So the idea is that once a spacecraft is going fast enough there their time 967 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:32,000 slows down, and so you can travel greater distances and for the traveler it 968 01:17:32,039 --> 01:17:36,720 will be a shorter period of time. UM. The problem is that when 969 01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:40,479 you turn around and you come back to Earth, it will have been a 970 01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,760 long period of time for those people back on Earth and UM. So for 971 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:46,479 example, if I could if I could travel very close to the speed of 972 01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:51,319 light, um, I could travel to Alpha Centauri in a very short period 973 01:17:51,359 --> 01:17:56,199 of time, maybe a few hours if I was going ninety nine point nine 974 01:17:56,319 --> 01:18:00,760 nine nine percent of the speed of light, so I could maybe do this 975 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,079 in a few hours and then turn around and explore Alpha century a little bit 976 01:18:03,119 --> 01:18:09,239 and come right back. And for me, the total travel time would be 977 01:18:09,399 --> 01:18:12,119 a couple of hours, maybe a day or so, depending on the numbers 978 01:18:12,159 --> 01:18:16,279 we chose. But because Alpha Centuri is about four light years away, for 979 01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:20,399 people on Earth, they'll they'll have seen my trip has taken took me four 980 01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:24,119 years to get there and then four years back, so eight years will have 981 01:18:24,159 --> 01:18:30,439 passed on Earth. And so while relativity works for you as the traveler, 982 01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,800 it doesn't help everybody who has to stay at home. So the argument has 983 01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,760 always been, well, yeah, you could do interestill or travel if you 984 01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:42,600 went fast enough, but you know, what's the point, Because when you 985 01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:46,279 come back home hunt, you know many years will have passed, and that's 986 01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:50,359 just not You can't come home in time for dinner. So it doesn't work 987 01:18:50,399 --> 01:18:54,760 in science fiction stories because you want your heroes to go blow up the Dusk 988 01:18:54,760 --> 01:19:00,039 Star and then come back and be home in time for dinner. But so 989 01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:03,720 that that wouldn't really work. Um, So the question has always been. 990 01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:09,279 So let's say you have somebody who travels from you know, here to the 991 01:19:09,359 --> 01:19:12,079 other side of the galaxy and then comes back again. And if you go 992 01:19:12,319 --> 01:19:15,399 very fast, close to the speed of light, you know, the traveler 993 01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,720 can actually do it within you know, a reasonably short period of time. 994 01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,439 But for those left here back on Earth, the trip is going to take 995 01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:26,159 you know, one hundred and fifty thousand years, you know. And so 996 01:19:27,239 --> 01:19:30,640 the question then becomes, well, what society would do that? Why would 997 01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,199 you bother? You know, you can't so so yeah, so it's physically 998 01:19:33,319 --> 01:19:39,159 possible to perform interstellar travel this way, But what's the point? Um? 999 01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:45,359 And and that I was thinking about that argument one day and and it occurred 1000 01:19:45,359 --> 01:19:48,520 to me. I thought, well, the point's really simple, because the 1001 01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:51,920 traveler gets to do the take the trip. Um. You know, if 1002 01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:56,600 the traveler doesn't care about anybody back home who you know, he still gets 1003 01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,800 to go on an adventure. He or she gets to still still see the 1004 01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:01,800 other side of the galaxy. And yeah, they don't get to share it 1005 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,560 with anyone, but they got to do it, and so would would know 1006 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,399 Is it really true that nobody would ever do that? And I thought, 1007 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:13,159 now of course that's not true. People are humans are crazy humans would do 1008 01:20:13,239 --> 01:20:17,039 it. Yeah, I'm sure I could find somebody to take that trip, 1009 01:20:17,279 --> 01:20:23,720 and I'm sure I could, and and then it occurred to me, I 1010 01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,319 thought, but then, wait a minute. But if you had many people 1011 01:20:26,359 --> 01:20:30,880 who are willing to do that, then you could actually pull it off because 1012 01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:35,720 they could meet up and talk about their adventures, so they could form what 1013 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,840 I would call a breakaway society, which is I don't buy that term. 1014 01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,640 I don't mean it the same way that Richard Dolan means it when he uses 1015 01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:47,479 that. So here it would be a society that is segregated from our society, 1016 01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:54,960 basically a society of travelers, and you could live that way. You 1017 01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:58,560 would just have to live on your spacecraft and be nomadic, so you basically 1018 01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:02,039 give up the idea of having a home world or a home planet. But 1019 01:21:02,279 --> 01:21:06,239 you could have meet up points where you arrange, either pre arrange or you 1020 01:21:06,399 --> 01:21:12,359 design your trips so that it just happens to work that you will periodically meet 1021 01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:16,760 up with fellow travelers, and then you could easily have, um, you 1022 01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:25,159 know, a civilization that travels across the universe regularly and goes great distances and 1023 01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:32,560 still still persists. So I think that it's it's a little if you think 1024 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:35,319 out of the box a bit, you can come up with a solution where 1025 01:21:35,399 --> 01:21:40,159 somebody would do that, and you could have a society that behave that way. 1026 01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:43,600 And that doesn't mean that all interstellar societies would behave that way. You 1027 01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:48,560 could still have societies that basically colonize other worlds and just slowly expand, and 1028 01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:54,079 those those people might not be traveling back and forth between star systems regularly, 1029 01:21:54,239 --> 01:21:59,960 but so that would be a different situation. But you could have a society 1030 01:22:00,199 --> 01:22:03,199 where people were traveling back and forth regularly at very close to speed of light, 1031 01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,319 if you could pull that off. That's now, of course, there's 1032 01:22:06,319 --> 01:22:11,520 all sorts of engineering challenges in addition to the ones we've already discussed that would 1033 01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:18,159 be problematic. Now is there does physics allow for you to go back in 1034 01:22:18,279 --> 01:22:26,680 time? Ah, that's messy. It looks like it looks like according with 1035 01:22:27,159 --> 01:22:31,760 general relativity, it looks like you could have you could do that. However, 1036 01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:35,880 you so if you let's say you made a time machine where you went 1037 01:22:36,319 --> 01:22:42,520 back in time, you can show that that would only work. You could 1038 01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:45,520 only go back in time as far up until the point where you had made 1039 01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:49,880 the time machine, so you can't go back in time before there were time 1040 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:57,000 machines that were traveling in time. So it's kind of a messy situation. 1041 01:22:57,119 --> 01:23:03,439 So the answers is potentially yes, but with a few caveats. So in 1042 01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:11,359 other words, if someone did do space travel and they they were so out 1043 01:23:11,399 --> 01:23:18,720 of whack with Earth, yet they had invented a time machine that they could 1044 01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:23,760 actually go back back to their time, I mean, this is all Yeah, 1045 01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,760 the time machine would have had to exist at the time that they go 1046 01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:31,920 back to. So yeah, So there's been the proposal that some of these 1047 01:23:32,199 --> 01:23:40,479 UFOs may or ups may be the result of craft traveling back into time as 1048 01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:44,399 far as we understand it, um, as far as I understand it at 1049 01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:47,640 this point, that would be possible. But it would also imply that we 1050 01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:53,000 would have if we were seeing that, then would imply that we have time 1051 01:23:53,039 --> 01:23:58,399 machines right now, and so I see. So that so there would be 1052 01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:04,760 some big implications here. Because your brain ever hurt all the time, it's 1053 01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:10,079 always it's always exploding, it's just exploding inside its skull all the time. 1054 01:24:10,159 --> 01:24:16,840 Yeah, pretty funny. Wow, Uh yeah, I mean you can get, 1055 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,960 as they say, down the rabbit hole with a lot of this stuff 1056 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:25,079 and and uh, you know, the paradoxes and and all that. It's 1057 01:24:26,239 --> 01:24:30,159 it's really fascinating. I'm really enjoying myself tonight, just just to let you 1058 01:24:30,239 --> 01:24:33,000 know that. And what I what I think is really exciting is even even 1059 01:24:33,079 --> 01:24:40,319 if none of these are extraterrestrial and they're and you know, even if they're 1060 01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,520 just even if they're just um high tech that we don't know about yet, 1061 01:24:45,239 --> 01:24:47,439 then we basically right now live in the Star Trek universe. We have the 1062 01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:53,760 we have the possibility of having space travel like they have in TV shows like 1063 01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:58,399 Star Trek or Star Wars. And I think that that also is exciting. 1064 01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:03,399 So even if these turn to be American special projects, um, that implies 1065 01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:08,880 that these these things are capable of interest dollar travel and that's that's interesting. 1066 01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,680 But I but I then would expect that there's going to be a lot of 1067 01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:19,720 really pissed off aeronautical engineers, thousands of them who are worked their whole lives 1068 01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:26,279 to develop the next generation aircraft or spacecraft and are going to be really mad 1069 01:25:26,359 --> 01:25:30,359 that this technology was kept from them, right, And that's gonna that's gonna 1070 01:25:30,359 --> 01:25:32,039 be a problem, and it's a huge you can also think of it. 1071 01:25:32,239 --> 01:25:34,640 You know, our government has this well, great, but it's a huge 1072 01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:39,159 waste of money. It's a huge waste of money to be throwing you know, 1073 01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:44,199 nineteen billion dollars a year at NASA so we can puts around, you 1074 01:25:44,279 --> 01:25:47,159 know, one hundred and twenty five miles above the air surface. That's kind 1075 01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:50,800 of silly, you know. So so so it's really hard for me to 1076 01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:56,119 believe that these are these are um tech that we possess. I really find 1077 01:25:56,159 --> 01:26:00,399 that difficult. Do you think the government is just as puzzled with you fos 1078 01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:04,000 as we are? That's my take on it. My take is they've they've 1079 01:26:04,119 --> 01:26:09,720 they've collected you know, there are some programs in the government that's collected a 1080 01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:15,840 good bit more information than any of us have seen. But my impression is 1081 01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:18,399 they don't know much more about these things than any of the rest of us. 1082 01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:24,159 Yeah, that's kind of been my take, um all along. Um, 1083 01:26:24,279 --> 01:26:29,239 I think I used to say that I believe that some part of the 1084 01:26:29,399 --> 01:26:33,399 government possibly has more of an idea about what's going on than we do. 1085 01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:36,840 But I really don't know, you know, Like I said, earlier. 1086 01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:41,520 It seems like the more I get into this, the less that I know 1087 01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:46,520 about it. So I would suspect I would have suspect if that, if 1088 01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:53,520 there was, you know, a programmer, a couple of programs even that 1089 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:58,760 had a lot that had significant information, that we would be far more worried 1090 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,880 about it. That would be my that would be my expectation. Now I 1091 01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:05,920 could I could be mistaken, and that may be, and the evidence of 1092 01:27:06,039 --> 01:27:10,880 being mistaken about that, you know, maybe may be that you've got a 1093 01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:14,279 lot of people from the Navy, Navy who are just flummox that nobody cares 1094 01:27:14,279 --> 01:27:17,159 about this. So so maybe, you know, maybe that is maybe it's 1095 01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:21,800 the incredulity of the whole topic is still problematic. I don't I don't know 1096 01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:28,640 what the situation is. Yeah, I was, I'm a fine arts appraiser. 1097 01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,720 I was at a home in um Down in Massachusetts, and I saw 1098 01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:40,159 Navy bumper stickers on the back of a car in the driveway and I said 1099 01:27:40,399 --> 01:27:43,159 to them, oh, so you have someone in the Navy, and they 1100 01:27:43,159 --> 01:27:45,600 said retired Navy And I said, oh, by the way, what do 1101 01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:49,039 you think of You know, I had the courage because it's always it's tricky 1102 01:27:49,079 --> 01:27:53,359 to talk about, but I had the courage that it really isn't to ask. 1103 01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:56,039 And she said, I know, my husband's been following that. He 1104 01:27:56,079 --> 01:28:00,079 can't believe it, and how interesting is that? And you know, I 1105 01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,720 it is. It's both baffling at the same time. It's it's it's great 1106 01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:09,680 that they're actually looking into this. And I believe it opens the door for 1107 01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:14,159 people like you a little wider, doesn't it. It really has. It's 1108 01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:19,239 made it's made it easier as a scientist to look at this because I really, 1109 01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:25,079 you know, when I have if I mentioned this to another scientists and 1110 01:28:25,279 --> 01:28:28,640 they, you know, cock their head and throw their brow a little bit 1111 01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:31,600 and say what, and I just have to point and say Navy, the 1112 01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:36,520 US Navy. The US Navy says, you know, and and that you 1113 01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:41,159 know, while they're not an authority on the topic it, they do, 1114 01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:44,640 you know, they do carry some credibility, which is, you know, 1115 01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:48,279 very different than Joe Schmo who came out of the bar at two am and 1116 01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:53,039 saw some lights in the sky. It's a very different situation, that's right, 1117 01:28:53,079 --> 01:28:55,960 And I think and that's and that's really helped, That's helped a lot. 1118 01:28:56,319 --> 01:29:00,640 And you know, people. Then people then give you and I found 1119 01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:04,199 other scientists then give you the benefit of the doubt. All right, you 1120 01:29:04,359 --> 01:29:10,079 got a few minutes to convince me. And and and that allows you to 1121 01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:14,119 present some of the evidence that they've not seen because because they haven't looked into 1122 01:29:14,199 --> 01:29:17,439 it. And you know, the typical responses is that, wow, I 1123 01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:24,319 didn't know all of that. That's amazing. And then and then it's usually 1124 01:29:24,399 --> 01:29:29,960 followed by, but I'm still skeptical because of the way that these things fly. 1125 01:29:30,159 --> 01:29:32,079 That's not physically possible. So how does this work? Are you sure 1126 01:29:32,159 --> 01:29:38,000 this isn't wrong? And um, and that leads to a whole other but 1127 01:29:38,119 --> 01:29:41,600 a more detailed discussion. And that's that's a discussion we should be having because 1128 01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:44,640 that's we need. That's how we're going to figure out what's going on. 1129 01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:50,520 As as someone like yourself, a scientist, you have much more of a 1130 01:29:51,039 --> 01:29:56,880 foot in the door to actually talk to someone about this the way you are. 1131 01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,800 Um, you know, it just it just works. Um, you 1132 01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,920 know, for someone like me or or anyone else out there, you know 1133 01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:09,960 us Joe Schmoso to speak. Um, you know, it's it's hard, 1134 01:30:10,039 --> 01:30:13,520 you know, we bring it up in a conversation and most people, not 1135 01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:15,760 all people these days, I feel more and more comfortable with it all the 1136 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:21,119 time. Um, you know, but most people, uh we A scientist 1137 01:30:21,199 --> 01:30:25,880 isn't going to listen to but a scientist to a scientist, you know, 1138 01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,520 they pay more attention, for sure, I think, right, and I 1139 01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,000 think that, yeah, there's a there's a bit of a difference. We 1140 01:30:32,359 --> 01:30:38,720 speak the same language. We know, we have a better sense of what 1141 01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:44,359 information is relevant and what's not relevant. We have a better sense of what, 1142 01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:49,880 um, what's believable and what's not believable. Where we're you know, 1143 01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:55,640 we're trained not to jump to conclusions, and which I think a lot of 1144 01:30:55,680 --> 01:31:00,920 people are prone to do. Right, you get to talking to people just 1145 01:31:00,119 --> 01:31:04,279 casually, you know, before you know it, there's all sorts of theories 1146 01:31:04,399 --> 01:31:09,279 popping up that whoa, I think it's this and this and this and you 1147 01:31:09,359 --> 01:31:13,640 know what you know, I think it's you know, dogmen and bigfoot and 1148 01:31:14,279 --> 01:31:16,159 you know, coming out of spacecraft and blah blah blah. And you think, 1149 01:31:16,239 --> 01:31:19,239 oh, well, wait a minute, let's back up here, let's 1150 01:31:19,239 --> 01:31:21,880 back up. Do we have do we have actual data about it? Do 1151 01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,840 we have actual information? You know? And so as a scientist, it's 1152 01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:30,520 easier to do that and to keep in mind, what do I actually have? 1153 01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:35,880 Um, what can I what can I prove you know, based on 1154 01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:40,760 the data that I have. And that's and that's basically why I wrote this 1155 01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:43,920 paper. I realized that, well, we have enough information here we can 1156 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:48,439 actually estimate some of these accelerations and speeds, and that would be an important 1157 01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:54,079 first and understanding what these things are and how they're moving and allow us to 1158 01:31:54,479 --> 01:31:58,119 rule out some hypotheses. You know, it's not a seat, it's not 1159 01:31:58,239 --> 01:32:02,000 a seagull accelerating at five house and gee, and I had somebody actually asked 1160 01:32:02,039 --> 01:32:06,720 me once do you think it could be a highly reflective seagull? And as 1161 01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:12,439 a birdwatcher myself, I had almost exploded. I was like, there is 1162 01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:16,560 no such thing. You think that's more probable than than aliens or anything else? 1163 01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:20,039 That's crazy. But yeah, no, it's not a it's not a 1164 01:32:20,159 --> 01:32:25,840 highly reflective seagull. We know that it can't they can't be anything. We 1165 01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:29,600 can hope we can rule out some of these things at this point, right 1166 01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,960 that is that's a riot. So the lines are open now for anyone out 1167 01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:38,560 there that would like to call in that's eighty five KGr A live or eight 1168 01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:45,560 five five four seven two five four eight three. We have Steve from Las 1169 01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:49,920 Vegas. Uh, Steve, welcome to the show. Thank you, Martin 1170 01:32:50,079 --> 01:32:57,479 Hi, Kevin, hello Steve. UM. Two quick questions. Maybe I'm 1171 01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:01,039 so intrigued and interesting on what you talking about here, and I'm thinking to 1172 01:33:01,159 --> 01:33:05,960 myself, Well, you're talking physics, and is this science that you're bringing 1173 01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:12,840 into you about because we need more scientists to look into it, like stand 1174 01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:19,720 Freeman instead and h some of your friends all the physics, uh, looking 1175 01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:25,920 into it and agreeing with your philogrophy. Yeah, So this is basically what 1176 01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:29,039 I'm trying to study these things scientifically. I want to know what they are, 1177 01:33:29,199 --> 01:33:30,760 I want to know how they work, and UM, I want to 1178 01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:34,159 know the details. And so that's what I'm trying to do. UM. 1179 01:33:34,319 --> 01:33:39,119 I have a number of colleagues who are also interested in studying things, and 1180 01:33:39,279 --> 01:33:45,000 we're these things and we're trying to do our best to UM. We're trying 1181 01:33:45,039 --> 01:33:50,279 to figure out how to collect data. That's the important job right now is 1182 01:33:50,319 --> 01:33:58,479 to collect our own data to use better instrumentation and and see what we can 1183 01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:03,640 what we can actually learn about these things, okay, And my second question 1184 01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:10,640 is I collect footage of UFOs I used to term your boat instead of UAP. 1185 01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,800 That's fine, that's that's fine, there's it's I think of them as 1186 01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:17,920 the same thing anyway as well. And most of the footage that I've been 1187 01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:24,079 collecting, even up to now, I would say about sixty orbs that seem 1188 01:34:24,159 --> 01:34:30,560 to appear, disappear and move around and uh patterns. That is unbelievable. 1189 01:34:31,159 --> 01:34:35,000 My quicking is to me, I've kind of figured out, well, I 1190 01:34:35,319 --> 01:34:42,000 seem like they're intelligence, these orbs, and light is energy is what it 1191 01:34:42,279 --> 01:34:46,800 could be behind Can it be some kind of intelligence light back of busy orbs? 1192 01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:51,760 That's hard. That's hard for me to imagine, um that you could 1193 01:34:51,800 --> 01:35:01,439 have light the intelligent see it's and and as to the nature of these orbs 1194 01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:04,800 either, I'm not I can't really speak to that, having not seen them 1195 01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:11,279 myself or or had footage that I could really do anything, you know, 1196 01:35:11,399 --> 01:35:17,199 with in terms of image analysis. So that's a difficult question intelligence in the 1197 01:35:17,239 --> 01:35:21,359 way I think about it. If you're you know, when intelligent things basically 1198 01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:26,479 create models of the world around them so they can interact with the world around 1199 01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:33,079 them. And so what you Basically, if you're an intelligent being or object, 1200 01:35:33,239 --> 01:35:36,319 then you have to be able to create such models. And I don't 1201 01:35:36,399 --> 01:35:44,199 see how light could just do that. Light basically you've got photons. They 1202 01:35:44,279 --> 01:35:47,680 travel from point A to point B and get absorbed somewhere. So it's hard 1203 01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:53,479 to imagine how how to have an intelligence that's just basically made of light. 1204 01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:59,000 So it's hard for me to imagine. But that doesn't you know, it 1205 01:35:59,159 --> 01:36:02,159 sounds like these you know a lot of these things would need to be studied 1206 01:36:02,199 --> 01:36:06,880 more carefully to be able to identify what they are. We have calls backing 1207 01:36:08,039 --> 01:36:11,119 up here, so Steve, yeah, thank you, thanks for the call. 1208 01:36:12,239 --> 01:36:15,279 Good welcome. All right, all right, look who we have here. 1209 01:36:15,359 --> 01:36:19,840 We have Dave Altman calling probably from Florida. You there these days, 1210 01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:28,079 Dave, Yes, I'm here and the sunny actually rainy, miserable Florida. 1211 01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:35,399 You know the guest, Yes, I do. We are both members of 1212 01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:43,039 the UAP Expedition Group. Oh you're involved in that too, Kevin, Yes, 1213 01:36:43,159 --> 01:36:45,720 I am, and I'm at this moment very very sorry that I hadn't 1214 01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:51,079 mentioned that yet. So thank you for calling Dave. That's exactly why I 1215 01:36:51,239 --> 01:36:58,319 called and I also just wanted to let everybody know that the website has gone 1216 01:36:58,399 --> 01:37:03,399 live. It's not done, but it is live and it is UAP Expedition 1217 01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:10,039 dot org. That is the website. Brilliant. Thank you, Dave. 1218 01:37:10,239 --> 01:37:12,359 When you get off the phone, why don't you go ahead and send me 1219 01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:16,159 that link and I'll put that in the show notes for everyone. But yeah, 1220 01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,119 I did. I did post it in the chat room, but I'll 1221 01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:21,399 send it to you as well. You know, this way you have it 1222 01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:28,119 for your show notes. And also just wanted to remind Kevin that we're all 1223 01:37:28,199 --> 01:37:32,279 going to be at Contact in the Deserts at the end of May beginning of 1224 01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:35,760 June. Yeah, that's right, that's right, and I'm slated to go 1225 01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:41,720 there too, so brilliant. That will be great to meet everyone there. 1226 01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:46,239 Yeah, so we'll all be able to have a little pow wow and get 1227 01:37:46,279 --> 01:37:50,520 to know each other in person excellently. That'd be great. Well, hey, 1228 01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:53,800 Dave, thanks so much. We got a bunch of calls backed up 1229 01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,800 here, so yeah, thank you very much, Dave. All right, 1230 01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,920 and so everyone look for that link in the notes and I'll have that. 1231 01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:04,760 I'll have that to open next we have and I see Ray is on the 1232 01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:09,760 line here too, but we have Andy calling from Connecticut. He's the one 1233 01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:13,279 who saved of the show a while ago when I had to have a listener 1234 01:38:13,359 --> 01:38:18,720 show. And Andy, don't forget to call next week, absolutely I will, 1235 01:38:19,119 --> 01:38:21,920 I will. Welcome to the show. You have a question for our 1236 01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:27,239 guests, Kevin, Yeah, I have one quick question that I'll ask and 1237 01:38:27,319 --> 01:38:30,600 then I'll get off the phone. Is and I apologize if you might have 1238 01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:34,439 touched on this earlier. I didn't hear the whole show. But my question 1239 01:38:34,600 --> 01:38:41,840 is what are Kevin's thoughts on the concept or theory that scanning popularity with some 1240 01:38:43,079 --> 01:38:49,199 physicists that gravity is actually what we experience is a distortion in the fabric of 1241 01:38:49,319 --> 01:38:57,640 space time created by the Earth's own mass. And there are some analogies out 1242 01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:01,239 there like bowling balls on trampoline with marbles trying to go by and they can't 1243 01:39:01,279 --> 01:39:06,640 go by and they get sucked into that distortion that um, you know, 1244 01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:12,039 you know, depression created. Does he think that that's that's probably valid? 1245 01:39:12,359 --> 01:39:15,600 That's that's what gravity is, um, And I'll take your question off the 1246 01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,920 here. Good show, guys, Thank you, thank you, and thank 1247 01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:24,079 you Andy, and and hello, Um No, that's a good question. 1248 01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:30,439 That's basically the picture that one gets from Albert Einstein's children general relativity, which 1249 01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:34,800 is a very successful theory. So I think it's a very good description of 1250 01:39:36,039 --> 01:39:41,840 a good picture of what is going on with gravity. Um, is there 1251 01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:45,840 something more fundamental might be the question you could ask. And I think that 1252 01:39:46,159 --> 01:39:50,960 that's probably the case. And I think that's what you know, many theoretical 1253 01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:57,600 physicists are trying to um understand by studying quantum gravity. We're trying to understand 1254 01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:02,199 the the the relationship beween quantum mechanics and gravity, and at present, at 1255 01:40:02,279 --> 01:40:08,560 present, Einstein's general theory of relativity doesn't get along well with quantum mechanics, 1256 01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:13,920 and so so the thinking is that there's probably a more fundamental picture that will 1257 01:40:14,279 --> 01:40:17,880 allow us to understand gravity better. And I think that that's it's an exciting 1258 01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,960 area of research. Yeah, speaking of exciting, I was just thinking of 1259 01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:26,479 that word, where it must be exciting to you as a physicist to know 1260 01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:32,760 that you haven't discovered everything that is exciting, that is really exciting I had. 1261 01:40:34,199 --> 01:40:39,079 I remember when I was in about to go into graduate school, I 1262 01:40:39,319 --> 01:40:43,039 kind of lamented to my parents. I thought Oh my god, I really 1263 01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:46,520 am excited to study physics, but it's horrible. All the all the cool 1264 01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:50,840 things have been discovered already and I'm not going to be able to do anything 1265 01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:56,479 as fundamental as you know, what Einstein did and I kind of lamented that, 1266 01:40:56,680 --> 01:41:00,560 and it's turned out not to be true, which is great. I've 1267 01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:03,960 I've done some theoretical work we've got you know, I've been able to derive 1268 01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:11,600 some of the laws of quantum mechanics from simple symmetries and things like this. 1269 01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:16,479 So I've gotten to be able to do some real foundational um to sis work 1270 01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:24,079 that that that is new and interesting. So I think it's it's very it's 1271 01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:27,840 very exciting. It's I wouldn't I couldn't imagine doing anything else for a career 1272 01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:33,159 boring in my mind. Yeah, I'm lucky enough to say, believe it 1273 01:41:33,279 --> 01:41:38,319 or not, that's how I feel about the antiques and fine art and because 1274 01:41:38,359 --> 01:41:41,479 there's so much history and researching and I love it. By the way, 1275 01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:45,159 for the listener out there, I also do a podcast on antiques and fine 1276 01:41:45,239 --> 01:41:47,640 art called The Antiquection Form if anyone wants to go check that out. Wow. 1277 01:41:48,239 --> 01:41:51,760 But anyway, I think it's it's it's fun that whenever I've I've found 1278 01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:57,840 that whenever you study anything, you can find something interesting in it. And 1279 01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:00,239 I've always found that to be the case. And that's how it's great. 1280 01:42:01,279 --> 01:42:03,920 Yeah, that's right. Well we have we have about five minutes left. 1281 01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:09,079 Someone's trying to call in, but we also have Ray Stanford on the line 1282 01:42:09,119 --> 01:42:15,399 from Baltimore. Ray, Welcome to the show. Hello. I am thrilled 1283 01:42:15,479 --> 01:42:18,720 to hear Kevin say that he would like to meet me, and I hope 1284 01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:25,640 he would like to visit down here in the NASA Goddard Territory. I would 1285 01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:29,399 love I would love to. It's such a pleasure to meet you. There's 1286 01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:33,479 there's a tremendous amount that I want to share with you, and I'm delighted 1287 01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:39,039 to hear you say that. Look, it's not more pawing over old reports 1288 01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:43,079 that we need. We need hard data, we need instruments out there, 1289 01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:47,239 and what I want to share with you is that class of data in a 1290 01:42:47,359 --> 01:42:51,960 way that I think you will be delighted. And I wouldn't invite anybody to 1291 01:42:53,039 --> 01:42:56,199 fly in here and planes these days with the virus going around, but if 1292 01:42:56,239 --> 01:43:00,359 you're in New York, you could drive drive down that's oh, yes, 1293 01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:03,640 certainly, Yeah, yeah, I would. I would very much love too. 1294 01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:09,760 I'd be very interested in hearing about I know that you have an interesting 1295 01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:16,159 collection of of of UAPs or UFOs and I photographs, and I also would 1296 01:43:16,199 --> 01:43:19,479 be very interested in the paleontology too, So it's very exciting. I've never 1297 01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:23,479 I've been. I've been. I visited Ray, I don't know what was 1298 01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:26,720 that, three or four years ago, Ray, when I was down there 1299 01:43:27,399 --> 01:43:29,439 three and a half years ago. Yeah, yeah, when I was down 1300 01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:30,840 there, and I got to tell you, I've never Now I go into 1301 01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:35,600 a lot of houses with amazing collections of all kinds, you know, mostly 1302 01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:40,680 art stuff like that. I've never seen a collection like Ray has. It's 1303 01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:45,399 really great meteor rites Gray. I hope you don't mind me saying that, 1304 01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:49,279 but you just have some fascinating things. Yes, uh, And we'd love 1305 01:43:49,359 --> 01:43:55,600 to show these to Kevin and Kevin also, I want to say that if 1306 01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:58,720 you can give yourself enough time down here, I would also be happy to 1307 01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:01,439 take you on a dinosaur tracking trip. Oh, that would be so great. 1308 01:44:02,239 --> 01:44:05,119 That would be fun. Yeah, my father and I had gone to 1309 01:44:05,199 --> 01:44:09,680 the bad Lands in South Dakota several times when I was when I was young 1310 01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:14,119 and um, and of course not in the park itself, but we had 1311 01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:17,039 collected some fossils. So I have an oriodont skull that I had found and 1312 01:44:17,159 --> 01:44:23,399 restored as as well as a tortoise, and so I have my own little 1313 01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:29,880 collection. But that that's very exciting. Well, I would just like to 1314 01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:32,039 ask Morton to pass on to me the best email address to send you. 1315 01:44:32,319 --> 01:44:39,039 I'll send you some some material and links that you'll find them really exciting about 1316 01:44:39,119 --> 01:44:42,600 both sides of this, the objects, yes, I prefer objects to instead 1317 01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:46,760 of phenomena, and the pedantological side. I don't want to hold anybody else 1318 01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:50,680 up from calling in, but thank you for your interest, and to please 1319 01:44:50,760 --> 01:44:55,600 plan on coming and see me, and I'll give you the contact information and 1320 01:44:55,720 --> 01:44:59,079 we would welcome you here any amount of time you want to stay. Okay, 1321 01:44:59,319 --> 01:45:00,720 Well, thank you so much. That's very kind of you. Hey, 1322 01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:05,720 Ray, just for we have two minutes left. Basically, but Ray, 1323 01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:15,680 weren't you involved in well at least thinking about some type of craft propulsion 1324 01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:17,840 that had a beam ahead or am I? Am I getting that wrong? 1325 01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:24,600 Ray? That is correct? Yes, nineteen eighty five. A lot of 1326 01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:28,760 a witness, and I've filmed in Corpus Christian on the bayfront a broad daylight, 1327 01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:33,359 beautiful film of four different objects that were dish shaped with a dome, 1328 01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:39,399 but they had a structure on the other side that projected a very narrow collimated 1329 01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:45,600 beam out about thirty diameters ahead of it. And I will show you from 1330 01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:47,319 this movie. I'll show you the frames, and then I'll show you the 1331 01:45:47,359 --> 01:45:53,680 image process with false color contouring, and you will see like in a slaring 1332 01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:59,239 view, you will see the actual patterns of the plasma being generated in front 1333 01:45:59,279 --> 01:46:01,279 and pulled around on the object and squeezed in the back as if it were 1334 01:46:01,279 --> 01:46:04,800 a smaller and you will be as a as a scientist. I think you'll 1335 01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:09,800 be delighted at what you see. Wow, that sounds interesting. Yeah, 1336 01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:14,479 and so much more. I mean people from Goddard that have actually gone over 1337 01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:16,640 to race House and looked at some things, which I think is great. 1338 01:46:17,279 --> 01:46:20,920 Ray, I really am so glad you called in and I will make the 1339 01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:26,079 connection of you two. Thanks. I appreciate it. I'll go now. 1340 01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:29,279 Thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing it, Kevin. Okay, 1341 01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:32,119 thank you, Thank you. Have a good night. Ray. So we 1342 01:46:32,319 --> 01:46:35,600 just have one minute left. If someone wanted to reach out with you, 1343 01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:40,239 I saw that you or you have a link we have in the show notes 1344 01:46:40,279 --> 01:46:45,079 to it's actually to the university. Do you have any problem with people getting 1345 01:46:45,079 --> 01:46:47,840 in touch with you? No, that's fine. I'm a I'm a professor, 1346 01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:54,000 and i'm people can email me questions anytime they want. That's fine. 1347 01:46:54,239 --> 01:46:58,520 Yep, okay, excellent. Well, and you don't have a website though, 1348 01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:01,000 right? Do you have a website? Oh? Okay, I'm sorry 1349 01:47:01,039 --> 01:47:04,560 I didn't link that. Go ahead, what is that? Yeah, let's 1350 01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:08,840 see. Well, I'm actually true. Our websites are transitioning right now. 1351 01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:13,560 So I've got a new website that I put up and I have to fix 1352 01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:18,239 it a bet. But it's Kenneth lab dot org okay, and I've got 1353 01:47:18,319 --> 01:47:21,760 to do a little bit of work on it to get it right now. 1354 01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:25,199 It just has got a new host, so that's not the whole thing. 1355 01:47:25,239 --> 01:47:28,199 So I've got to put a little file in and then I'll have that fixed 1356 01:47:28,239 --> 01:47:30,279 by tonight. All right, Kevin, thanks so much. We're totally out 1357 01:47:30,319 --> 01:47:33,880 of time. I really appreciate it's been a real pleasure tonight. Oh, 1358 01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:38,439 thank you so much for having me all right, okay everyone, that's it 1359 01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,960 for the show, and I want to thank you all for listening, and 1360 01:47:42,199 --> 01:47:45,680 we'll be back next week with a listener show. I hope all listeners will 1361 01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:48,159 make an attempt to call in. I'd love to talk to you, and 1362 01:47:48,520 --> 01:48:03,399 remember everyone to keep your eyes to this guy twenty by the life came from 1363 01:48:03,479 --> 01:48:14,359 the sky, landed in a few fabing next to out burded fine will I 1364 01:48:14,479 --> 01:48:20,479 don't know what they want burd it might feel in an tell if by Mom's 1365 01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:27,840 baby, we've been working in their minds on the dark side of the mon 1366 01:48:28,039 --> 01:48:34,520 bathing, slaving all the time, ever since the David took us in we 1367 01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:59,760 had to leave earth behind. I'm tell if by life train, if by 1368 01:49:00,119 --> 01:49:06,640 God's bathing twenty six at the most, I take a space hammer, baby, 1369 01:49:08,359 --> 01:49:14,960 I could who ever get closed it will make a break bove and try 1370 01:49:15,039 --> 01:49:23,319 to call coach to col Swelling by the light that came from the sky. 1371 01:49:25,000 --> 01:49:31,640 I parked in a crater fabing right in front of you, and I let's 1372 01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:58,600 steel won't and try to make get flight trending by the light tand it by 1373 01:49:58,840 --> 01:50:06,760 second spaby of all it's gonna take as soon as our figures bathing as the 1374 01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:20,000 parking crazy we'll make our great moon is skin telling by the light. Came 1375 01:50:20,319 --> 01:50:28,920 from the sky and crashed in a field, bathing next to a thirty fire 1376 01:50:30,159 --> 01:50:36,479 will don't know what they want, fucking look like you and out, tweling 1377 01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:44,880 by the light, twelling by the light, tweling it by the light, 1378 01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:47,159 tweling by the light.