You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together
with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a
researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social
media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly
and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're episode number eighty. How did that happen?
It's crazy. It feels like we just started this podcast like yesterday.
That means that we've been at this for about a year and a half.
I think we're and a half about right. We've got some bonus episodes it's
mixed in there, and some more coming up. Yes, we have actually
some great bonus episodes coming up for sure. Because I'm on summer vacation,
I can do a lot of reading and a lot of listening to podcasts,
and I have a lot to share with you guys and bill us too.
Look forward to some upcoming bonus episodes of true crime Bookshelf and true crime Media
and all sorts of great stuff. And the most important thing when we're talking
about something like wow, we're eighty podcasts into it, is to thank all
of you for your support. We're listening telling your friends about Mind over Murder.
Writing reviews on every podcast platform you can come up. Remember, you
can take that same review and put it in two or three different places,
and that's kosher. It's been a pleasure and a privilege working on this podcast,
and the response that we've had from so many of you has been so
gratifying and so wonderful. So thank you very much for everybody out there who
has listened and interacted with us on social media and said kind things. We
really appreciate it. There's all sorts of stuff going on in the world.
Before we get into our topic for today, which is actually a return to
the Colonial Parkway murders, we're getting into the other two double homicides in the
Colonial Parkway murders. But before we get there, we wanted to talk about
a few things that are going on in the world. It was particularly interested
in the Washington Post op ed that you sent me yesterday and posted on all
of our social media pages from Deirdre en Wright of the Innocence Project. Deirdre
had put out on this past Friday an opinion piece on the Washington Post op
ed page which leads with the headline the FBI should use DNA, not posters
to solve a cold case murder. It focuses on the twenty fifth anniversary of
the unsolved murders of Julie Williams and Lolly Winans in the Shenandoah National Park.
You've heard us talk about this case briefly on Mindover Murder at different times.
We may do more in depth coverage when the time is right. Deirdre en
Wright and the people at the Innocence Project had actually defended a man that was
charged in that case. The focus of the piece, though, is the
electronic billboards that we had mentioned here on mind Over Murder and Deirdre and other
people that lived in Washington, d C. And some of our listeners had
all noticed that the FBI was using the electronic billboards to request information from the
public in the Julie Williams Lolly Winans murder. Deirdre's key point is that the
FBI should be testing the available evidence using the latest DNA technology to see if
they can solve the murder of Julie Williams and Lolly Winans through advance forensics,
which is exactly the same thing we're asking for in the Colonial Parkway murders.
And anyone who's familiar with us knows that our first response to that was,
hell, yeah, you should be doing that. Absolutely, they should be
doing that. Looking at some of the comments y'all have posted on our social
media page, we know most of you feel the exact same way. It
is very gratifying, as I said earlier, to hear from all of y'all
that you're on the same page that we are, and that you want the
same things from this case as we do. We noted this morning that after
only about seventeen comments, most everybody agreeing with Deirdre Enwright that the FBI should
be using DNA and not electronic billboards to solve a cold case. Murder that's
now twenty five years old. As we close in on our thirty fifth anniversary
of the start of the Colonial Parkway murders, this fall, the Washington Post
has turned off the comments section, which I find disappointing. Only seventeen readers
myself included and others made comments, and then for some reason they turn off
the comments section. I'm a bit disappointed in the Washington Post. We will
include a link in the show notes to this episode of Mind of a Murder,
so it's easy for you to take a look at the piece. It's
thoughtful and well written, and I think worthy of the FBI's consideration. It's
a shame that the internal politics at the FBI. And I'm not talking about
Republicans versus Democrats here, folks. I'm talking about internal politics at the FBI
and the DOJ. Who's who's out, who's in charge, what cases get
precedents, that kind of thing that seems to be having an impact on whether
or not cases receive resources. And much like the Colonial Parkway murders, the
murder of Julie Williams and Lolly Winan's does not seem to be a priority for
the FBI, which is a shame. So if you are interested in taking
a look at that op ed, we will have a link to that in
the show notes. We are moving on to our topic of discussion for today,
and that is the double murder of Robin Edwards and David Knobling on Ragged
Island. At this point we have finished talking about both of the FBI cases
and so we are going to move on to the Virginia State Police cases.
There are two jurisdictions involved in the Virginia State Police cases, which we will
talk about. But in terms of timeline, Bill, where does this case
fall in the timeline of the Colonial Parkway murders Because we did talk about the
cases out of order. Now this is case number two. You remember that
Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski were killed in October nineteen eighty six. Almost a
year later, on September twentieth, David Knoppling, who is aged twenty,
and Robin Edwards, age fourteen, were found shot to death in a place
called the Ragged Island Wildlife Refuge. It's next to the James River, which
is a substantial body of water. Kristen can tell you more in Isle of
Wight County so this is opposite Newport news Hampton roads and the major population centers
and a massive facility where they build and refurbish ships on this side. On
the far side, I think of it next to the James River Bridge,
which puts you near Smithfield, Virginia, home of Smithfield Hams. I've been
by their facility where unhappy pigs live, and it is a totally charming and
adorable little town. They've got a beautiful little section of streets with a restored
Victorian houses and great places of steaton shops. So we love going to Smithfield,
but we do pass Ragged Island to get there. It was even smaller
back then. Remember we're talking about thirty plus years ago. It was a
country. Smithfield, I agree, is completely charming, great coffee and cool
little antique shops and it's a really neat little place. You drive right by
the Ragged Island Wildlife Refuge as you enter Isle of Wight County, and it
is one of those places where if you don't know it's there, you will
miss it. When I first went to the scene, and this was indepen
and a bill you and I had not been there at that point together.
We'd been to some of the others, but not that one. It actually
took me a little bit of doing to figure out where's the turn and how
do I need to maneuver my car to get there. So it is one
of those places that if you blink, you'll miss it, and if you
don't know where it is, you may have a bit of a time trying
to get there if anybody is trying to get there. As you head out
of Newport News, you're going to cross the four and a half mile long
James River Bridge. It's a long bridge, the JRB. As soon as
you hit land, you're going to be slowing down quickly and taking the absolute
first left you can and don't blink, and you will miss it. There's
no traffic light or anything like that. And then that kind of loops around
and you end up right next to the James River Bridge. And interestingly,
one of the investigators who took me there for the first time some years ago
now did point out that the physical structure of the James River Bridge actually block
passing motorists from being able to see down into the sandy parking line where David
Knobling's Ford Ranger truck was found three days after they had gone missing in September
nineteen eighty seven. For those of you who are going to ask, is
this adjacent to the Colonial Parkway, the answer is no, it is not
adjacent to the Colonial Parkway. I know that for those of y'all that are
not here local, the geography of the region can be a little confounding at
times, So just any interest of helping those of you that are not local.
No, Ragged Island is nowhere near the Colonial Parkway, And in fact,
you have to go quite a good distance out of your way to get
to the JRB and Ragged Island. What do you think thirty forty minute drive?
Maybe yeah, at the very least if you use the Colonial Parkway where
the Thomas Dowski and Carl Haley incidents took place as a center point, and
that's valid because it is in between, I would say it would be thirty
forty minutes, maybe thirty minutes at night, forty maybe even forty five minutes
to get there if you started from one of the Colonial Parkway murders sites.
This is incident number two. It's worth noting that Edward's Nobling murder was not
linked to the Colonial Parkway murders in any way that most of us can recall.
Kathy and Becky had been killed a year before, but given the fact
that this is incident number two, it happened in a somewhat similar location,
but Robin and David were found shot to death. No one seemed to feel
that this had anything to do with a lesbian couple being killed using rope and
knives right on the Colonial Parkway, say, forty forty five minutes away,
So no one seemed to link the two incidents. Isle of White County Sheriff's
Department, which has grown tremendously as Isle of White has grown into much more
of a maybe suburban's not exactly what I mean, but there's a lot of
housing developments and yeah, very nice condos on the water and that kind of
thing. Back then, it was the boonies, and I don't mean that
in a disrespectful way. An Isle of Wight Sheriff's Department was so small,
as I understand it, they actually didn't feel like they had the resources to
handle a double homicide investigation of this type. They then took a back seat
and allowed the Virginia State Police to assume the lead role in the investigation of
David Knobley and Robin Edwards. You're listening to mind Over Murder, We'll be
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merch You can also look for links on our social media pages and in our
show notes. We're back here at mindover Murder. Now, when we talk
about Virginia State Police involvement, there are actually two different offices of the Virginia
State Police that handle the two VSP cases. As we've said before on Mindover
Murder, this complicates things because if two separate Virginia State Police officers handling two
of the murders that are considered part of the so called Colonial Parkway murders they
don't actually happen on the Colonial Parkway. For the purposes of Thebin Edwards David
Nobling case, the Chesapeake Office of the Virginia State Police became the lead agency.
Can you hear a siren? Yeah, it's noon here in our small
town? Oh oh, okay, are you getting a okay? Yeah,
it's okay. I was. It didn't sound like a police siren. Now
it's the emergency call in the middle of town. It's twelve noon in our
small town. So the detectives from the Chesapeake Office of the Virginia State Police
became the lead agents, and the Isle of Wight Sheriff's Department was more in
a support role. At this point. Are the Virginia State Police still investigating
in this case? I don't have the direct contact that I do with the
FBI, and we'll be asking family members of Robin Edwards and David Nobling to
join us in the coming weeks, so I'll let them speak to that.
I don't think the investigation of the Robin Edwards David Nobling case is as active
as it should be, and I will take it a step further. I've
had some great conversation with members of the Edwards and Nobling family who feel that
there may be opportunities for advanced forensic testing of the available DNA evidence, which
could be very helpful in moving this case forward. And I think we'll want
to get into that further with Robin's sister in an upcoming episode of Mind Over
Murder. So, first of all, it's important to acknowledge that Robin Edwards
is our youngest victim. Whereas Kathy was twenty seven and Becky was twenty one,
Robin is by far the youngest of the victims in the Colonial Parkway Murder's
case. She was fourteen years old. Her family and friends have always described
her as spirited. I think is probably a good way to describe her.
We've heard people describe her as an old soul somebody who I describe her if
she was one of my students, I would describe her as sassy. She
was definitely a fourteen year old who was maybe a little acted, maybe a
little older than her years suggest. Yeah, fourteen going on twenty four is
probably a fair description. And we're not implying any criticism here. Robin's not
a little kid. She's got a rebellious streak, she's headstrong, she's run
away from home several times, and she's not your typical fourteen year old girl.
Precisely. She was found on Raggeda Island with David Knoblaine, who was
twenty at the time of his murder. When we talk about the Colonial Parkway
Murders, we talk about couples. But David and Robin were not a couple.
As we said, David was twenty, Robin was fourteen, and they
did not have, to our knowledge, a relationship outside of the fact that
David had been acting as chaperone on that particular night for Robin's date with his
cousin. I believe it was Robin and David did not have a relationship.
In fact, I think you could probably say that the only real couple in
the Colonial Parkway Murders series is Kathy and Becky. We want to wait knowledge
that David was in a serious relationship with his girlfriend who was expecting a child
and they were planning on getting married, and so this gets a little bit
delicate. Again, We're not trying to attach a value judgment to reporting these
facts. David's daughter actually appears in the Lover's Lane Murders television series, which
we recommend if you haven't seen it on the Oxygen Network. She's now in
her early thirties. At the time of his death, David was planning to
marry his girlfriend, and obviously his tragic death cut those plans short. So
there's this slightly awkward aspect of things, which is, it appears that David
was out with Robin Edwards that evening after they had dropped off his brother and
cousin. After a group of young people with David in the chaperone role.
We put quotes around that had gone out and spent an evening at an arcade
and doing fun stuff, and then it appears that David dropped everyone off and
then made plans to connect with Robin after he had dropped the others off,
his brother and cousin. Now we don't know what those plans entailed at this
point. That is only one of many things that we can speculate on,
but the two of them did end up at Ragged Island. We talked about
Ragged Island a little bit already, but it is important to note one other
thing, which is that it is very dark and very quiet, solitary,
and it is a known spot for low level drug transactions. So you can
infer what you will from the fact that we have two people late at night
in a place that is known for low level drug transactions. For our younger
listeners, we always have to remind you remember this is before cell phones and
before the internet for pagers. You don't have the external forms of communication in
nineteen eighty seven that you have now. The spot they chose at Ragged Island
is a place that's known for, as Kristen you said, low level drug
deals and also sexual twists, both gay and straight. When Blaine Pardo was
working on his book on the Colonial Parkway murders, he was talking to a
cop as he was heading there, and the cop made reference, an off
color reference to what Blaine might be looking for at that location. And this
is during the day, I might add, Blaine was a little taken aback
that the guy made this crack. That's what the area is known for,
sexual trists and low level drug deals. If and this is a possibility,
if for example, they had gone there to engage in sexual activity, that's
a strong possibility. There's also a strong possibility this would be the kind of
place that you would go to if you were looking to score some pot.
Let's say so, at some point or another, Jerry that evening Robin and
David encountered the person who would eventually murder them. Robin and David were both
found on the beach at Ragged Island. Both had been shot in the head,
although David did have an additional shot to his shoulder, which we've assumed
and I think law enforcement has also assumed, was the result of him perhaps
trying to get away from his assailant. There was a three day gap in
between the time when David's truck was found and when their bodies were discovered.
If you remember our interview from Andy Fox of Wavy ten, he did talk
about the rather harrowing circumstances under which both the noveling and the Edwards family learn
about the death of their loved ones, and that was through a TV report
from Wavy News ten and a shot of their bodies on the beach from Chopper
ten. So if you haven't listened to that episode, we do recommend that
you go back and listen to that one from Andy. It's always struck me
that it's just about the worst way to find out that your love one has
been murdered. Is you're watching television news, and they announced that as part
of the search for at this point a missing couple, they have found bodies
on the beach about a mile away from the place where David's truck was found.
Absolutely awful. You're listening to Mind Over Murder. We'll be right back
after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at Mindover Murder. David's
truck was found in a way that struck people who knew him as being quite
odd. For one thing, David normally backed his truck into a parking space,
but at this point, when the truck was found, it was not
backed into a parking space, and apparently this was something that he was very
conscientious of doing. Every time that he parks the truck, you back it
in. I've never understood doing that. I think it's a truck thing.
I really I see this with pickup truck drivers. I think it's like a
I always park my truck nos out so that I can pull away cleanly with
no backing out into traffic, even in a sandy parking lot next to a
bridge. Because David's brother Michael even mentioned that he would do it at McDonald's
and places they would go and hang out as kids. So it seems like
it's a truck thing and it's okay. And even if it's not a truck
guy thing, it was certainly a David thing. And so really the first
sort of suspicious thing about the way that David's truck was found is the fact
that it was not back down. Now, in addition, the keys were
in the ignition, the wipers were on, going back and forth and back
and forth. We're both doing the exact name an movement that was back and
forth. The radio was turned to accessor or rather the key was turned to
accessories, and I assume that's because you want to maybe listen to the radio
while you're sitting there hanging out, and the radio was on in this example.
People have remarked on the fact that Kathy and Becky's car and David and
Robin's car were both found in a state that neither driver would have left it
in. David certainly would not have pulled his truck in nose first, and
he would not have gone anywhere without the keys to his car. The phrase
staged for theft started coming up. I would say probably right after Keith and
Sandy's case, when Keith's car also turned up in a way that he would
not normally have left it. Do you recall when that concept of the cars
being staged actually started coming up. I'm not sure if it comes up immediately,
but I know the investigators had noted that. Once we moved past the
first incident with Kathy and Becky and are Onda being pushed over the embankment clearly
not accessible, all the other vehicles are left with keys either in the ignition
or right there on the center console, but very easily found. Investigators have
theorized to me and others that they think that there's a possibility that the perpetrators
are leaving the keys in or near the ignition with the hope that someone will
come along kids, I think is what they're thinking, and steal the vehicle
or move the vehicle, which would create further time space and distance and create
more confusion as to where law enforcement should be looking for bodies or other evidence
related to that incident. Now, to the best of your knowledge, was
David's wallet still in the car? I believe, So we're going to want
to probably check some of these details with family members. Let's say yes,
for the moment, and I do remember very distinctly a crime scene photo of
Robin's shoes in the car. There's her shoes which who were tennis shoes,
and she had put market or doodled on them, and I know her mother
mentioned that as soon as she saw them she knew that they were Robin's and
they were articles of clothing in the car. It was rainy that evening,
so they most likely were in the cab, and there were articles of clothing
and shoes, as you've mentioned, found there, which is again similar to
other Colonial Parkway murders crime scenes, very similar. It did take three days
for Robin and David's bodies to be found, and as we mentioned, first
inkling that the families got that they had been discovered was from the chapter ten
shot and they were reporting from Wavy ten. There's been a lot of conversation
on mind Over Murder and in Blaine Pardo's book and on the television series Lovers
Lane Murders about whether Robin and David were marched directly to the water, which
I would estimate as probably no more than about two hundred yards in a straight
shot, paralleling the James River Bridge, but not terribly visible from the bridge,
or that Robin and David were marched. It could be three quarters of
a mile or more down a gravel path through the marsh. Now remember this
is in the dark, to an area closer to the beach where they were
found, which is about a mile downriver from where the truck was found.
I personally think that the simplest explanation is the one that makes the most sense
and probably fit the principle they call Ockham's razor, which means that Robin and
David were either in the truck perhaps closer to the beach. There's a fence
there now, but you actually could drive to the edge of the water there
next to the bridge, and a lot of people use that as a boat
launch to take small craft in and out of the water. David's truck,
I don't believe it's a Ford Ranger, but I don't believe it was four
whel drive, but he might have been able to get fairly close to the
water if he chose to, or alternatively, and again I'm trying to keep
things simple. I think it's perhaps most likely that they were interrupted while in
the parking area and then forced to walk to the edge of the water,
probably a gunpoint, and then executed somewhere close to the end of that road,
which is that Sandy Beach area that we discussed next to the bridge,
and then their bodies were dumped in the water after they were shot, and
then they floated downstream to be discovered three days later. That I think is
the explanation that makes the most sense. I don't buy the idea that they
were marched three quarters of a mile or more through a dark, sometimes swampy
area, this beautiful marsh. Yeah, I walked it, and this is
during the day, and I have as well. I've been to that site
at night, but not walked all the way down the path to the area
closer to where their bodies were found. I just don't think it makes sense
to march somebody barefoot down the gravel there, barefoot, across several small bridges
that are foot bridges. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense to me.
If you could take someone directly to the water, kill them, dump
their bodies in the water, and be done with it, versus taking twenty
or thirty minutes. Think about you wouldn't be able to walk very fast if
you were barefoot it's a terrified, half dressed couple down this winding, muddy
gravel path through the marsh. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense to
me, especially if time is of the essence. We don't have time of
death, or at least not that I'm aware of. But if you're in
a place where it's known to be a place for low level drug deals or
sexual trysts at some point or another, if you're the offender, you're going
to have to worry about, is somebody else is going to roll up on
me while I'm doing this. If time is of the essence, you're not
going to take time to walk somebody barefoot down a gravel road with a whole
bunch of little footbridges when you can just take them directly across the beach and
be done with it in five minutes. Maybe. See, I agree with
you. It doesn't make a whole time of sense. I love White Sheriffs.
And then Virginia State Police officers had come to the scene because what they
found, effectively was an abandoned Ford Ranger pickup truck with as you pointed out,
the wind show wipers on and the radio on. Clearly they hadn't been
gone long enough for the battery to go dead, and the truck wasn't running.
It was in the accessory position. As you mentioned, they were dealing
initially with a missing person's case, but something that was sitting in this parking
area that was regularly patrolled by county and state police as they passed by.
Regarding their gunshot wounds, the Virginia State Police, like the FBI, has
sometimes not been willing to share all of the information on the case, which
we understand. Autopsy reports describe the two of them as having been shot with
a small caliber weapon, so it sounds like something like a thirty eight or
perhaps even a twenty two was used as the weapon to kill them. Then
the bodies are dumped in the water. There is DNA evidence in this case,
it is badly deteriorated. It's almost thirty four years later. We are
hoping that the Virginia State Police will consider using advanced forensics in this case.
Our understanding is the amount of evidence is very small. Remember, many DNA
tests actually consume evidence as they're being performed, and there have been attempts to
identify a perpetrator or perpetrators in this case. We're hoping that advanced forensics like
those available from Athram Labs could be used in this case, and the families,
the Edwards and Nobbling families are continuing to lobby for such tests to take
place. We'll be talking about that further. To our knowledge, we don't
have any bullet fragments or anything like that, and we are not one hundred
percent certain, as we discussed exactly where the shooting took place, whether it
was close to the truck or at the edge of the water, close to
the bridge, or a mile away after a walk through the swamp in the
dark. There are a number of missteps along the way in the Edwards Nobling
case. Among them are a story about fingerprint cards being dropped in the driveway
of one of the family's homes, and we'll ask them to tell the story.
It's really pretty shocking how sloppy some aspects of the investigation became. We've
also found it very troubling that David's truck was returned to the Nobling family,
who didn't really want David's truck, and then the truck was then taken away
again by the Virginia State Police. There are things, even by the standards
of thirty four years ago that kind of make you cringe in terms of the
way the investigation move forward. And of course we did start with a missing
person's investigation when David Struck was found abandoned, and then three days later it
turned into an investigation of a double homicide. There are things about the handling
of this investigation that make me shake my head. And it's easy for us
to do a little Monday morning quarterbacking whenever we talk about the case, and
we know that it's also easy for a number of our listeners who are very
invested in all aspects of criminal investigation, to weigh in and do the same
thing. But you're right, Bill, there are certain things that happen with
this investigation that just make you go, oh, really, who thought that
would be a good idea? So it is easy for us to sit here
and say, in retrospect, that was not a great idea, But like
at the time it should have occurred to someone, this is not a great
idea. We need to be doing something a little bit different here. There
have been a number of suspects who've been mentioned in connection with the murder of
Robin Edwards and David Noveling as you don't mention suspects by name. We will
make an exception in some examples if we know that someone is deceased. One
person I will mention by name is Samuel Sammy Reader R. E Ider,
who actually spoke to law enforcement and put himself at the scene. He claimed
in his story, and I'm not saying I buy this. Reader claimed that
he was there and that he entered the truck while David and Robin were engaged
in sexual activity in nearby bushes, which on a rainy night, the whole
thing doesn't really fit. If you've got a truck right there. Yeah,
do you want to be inside a warm, dry truck listening to music or
do you want to be fooling around in the bushes? Yeah, we're talking
about this sort of beachy area with scraggly low underbrush. These don't even look
like comfortable bushes. As far as I'm concerned, I think what Reader was
trying to do was to explain how he was inside the truck where perhaps fingerprints
or other evidence would have shown him to be inside David's truck. Remember,
this is a pre DNA environment. DNA existed, but it wasn't being used
in forensic analysis for law enforcement at this point, it's just making its way
out of the lab. Supposedly Reader went into the truck to rob them while
they were distracted, that's his claim. And supposedly he found a small amount
of money in David's wallet, and he claims he's the one that I believe
tossed David's wallet up onto the dashboard. He claims he was inside the truck
while they were otherwise engaged. Reader was considered a pretty serious person of interest
by law enforcement investigators VSP and Isle of Wight, and I know he was
questioned because we have the story that he told. Unfortunately, Reader died later
in an auto asphyxiation accident or a suicide. Little hard to say. It
would appear from the way the scene has been described to me that he died
in an autoerotic asphyxiation accident. I could get more graphic, but do I
need to. Yeah, don't think so. Probably most of our listeners understand
exactly what you're getting at. For that. Some people may recall that Michael
Hutchins from the rock band In Excess from Australia also died under similar circumstances.
More music trivia from Bill Thomas. Unfortunately Sammy Reader's not around to answer questions.
There have been other drug dealers mentioned as a possibility, including one man
who supposedly had a thing for Robin Edwards and was very interested in engaging in
sexual behavior with her, with or without her consent. We cannot tell.
It appears not he's been mentioned as a suspect. He is sometimes referenced as
Washington, but I'm here to tell you that's not his real last name.
He is a Newport News area drug dealer, still alive and well. As
far as we know. That has always struck me as a possibility. It's
a particularly confounding case, and then when you factor in all of the various
missteps that have happened, it is hard to look at this case and feel
optimistic about the fact that there will be a satisfactory conclusion to it. But
as Bill said, there is forensic evidence that does need to be tested.
We are hoping that at some point or another Virginia State Police will decide that
it is worth the risk of consuming the entire sample to get it tested.
We know our friends at Athram have definitely said they're stood and willing to do
those tests. We just have to see if the good folks at VSP are
willing to take that leap and allow that testing to happen. Now, because
we've mentioned a few suspects, at least one by name in Robin Edwards and
David Noblings murder, don't misunderstand that means we're discounting another working theory from law
enforcement, which is, it is entirely possible that the same person that committed
the murder of Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski a year prior may be responsible for
Robin Edwards and David Noblings murder almost exactly a year later. That theory would
then hold that the perpetrator might have gone out, perhaps in an attempt to
recreate the experience of the year before, killing a lesbian couple, now going
to another place that's known for sexual behavior, a lover's lane, if you
will, and then perhaps choosing a couple at random whom he finds engaged in
whatever triggering behavior works for him. They talk about meeting the offender's needs.
When we talk to our friends Jim Clementi and doctor Laura Petler and other folks
about serial offenders, that is definitely a possibility here that this case number two
is a repeat of the incident from the year before on the Colonial Parkway.
So the fact that we mentioned a few individuals that might be directly responsible for
this murder, perhaps alone versus a through line, it is entirely possible that
Robin Edwards and David Nabling could be the second couple killed in the so called
Colonial Parkway murders. And that is one of the most frustrating things about this
case, isn't it. You can easily imagine scenarios in which there is one
serial killer stocking couples on the peninsula, but you can also imagine scenarios where
they're four entirely different and unrelated cases. And if you watched Lover's Lane murders,
you do see that we have two experts who come to two very different
conclusions with regard to that. And there have definitely been times when Bill and
I are sitting and talking about the case ad nauseum and going, I don't
know, I'm on the serial killer theory this week. Actually, no,
I'm not. I'm on the I don't think this case is related. And
we'll toss out certain cases and say maybe these three are, but the other
isn't. It's confounding, and at times it can be very frustrating and for
me personally, and I'm only one person of hundreds who've thought about this case
and talked about this case. I am now taking a middle ground, which
is I think some of the Colonial Parkway murders are related, but I don't
think all of the Colonial Parkway murders are related in that one, two,
three four incident connection that we've talked about. There are these other unsolved homicides
in the area Lorient Powell, Brian Pattinger, and others that could potentially tie
in to some of the Colonial Parkway murders. So, as Jim Clemandy mentioned
in the Lover's Lane murders, we could be looking at a copycat situation or
even just unrelated just overlapping murder patterns. So it's not all as straightforward as
we'd like it to be. I think that as a culture that is very
interested with true crime and in crime related TV shows, we know I'm a
Criminal Minds fan, a CSI fan. The narrative of a serial killer stalking
couples around the peninsula. It's an interesting narrative. It's a more interesting narrative.
I think for some people than this is for different people, for different
killers. So I think that may be why some people seem to like that
theory. Certainly, it's one that I held onto for a long time before
I started working with you, when I realized, okay, actually, maybe
probably these are not all related to each other. It's worth noting that the
Robin Edwards David Knobling murder is the only murder that we're aware of in the
so called Colonial Parkway murders where a firearm is used. It's entirely possible that
a firearm may be used to establish control at the beginning of any of these
incidents. In other words, I've had a gun pulled on me. Talk
to my younger brother who was also robbed at gunpoint. At one point,
you do comply, so he sticks a gun in your face, and you're
thinking, you're going to do everything you can to get out of this situation
alive. And all you want to do is comply with this person, give
them what they want, and get rid of them. That we're aware of,
because unfortunately, as we know, Keith and Cassandra have never been found,
and so they do throw a bit of a wild card into the mix.
We just don't know whether or not a gun was used on them,
and I think if we reach a point where their bodies are found, I
think it's entirely possible a lot more answers are going to fall into place,
or maybe we'll just have more questions. There's always that possibility. Yeah,
And then been an incident number four, which we'll be talking about in the
coming week with Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower who are found on Off I
sixty four. Because we have bones and bone fragments at that scene, it's
possible that they may have been shot, and we just have a through and
through as they call it, where soft tissue bullet enters the soft tissue and
exits and then isn't found. Because where the bodies were found is not necessarily
where they were put to death. We believe a knife was used in that
example, but nothing precludes a gun. So again we have these Confounding is
the word of the day. I think situations where we don't have all of
our answers. We'll be continuing coverage of the Robin Edwards and David Malvelene murders
by talking to the victims' families in the coming weeks. Thank you so much
for listening to mind Over Murder. We'll see you next time. Mind Over
Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers
are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.
Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership
with crawl Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or
Instagram. You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook,
and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas five
six. Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.