WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome. I'm Deb,
host of Deb's Data Dojo and researcher for

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Calling All Beings. Deb's Data Dojo
is part of the Calling All Beings podcast

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network. Today I get to speak
to Chris also known as at Ghost Archetype

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or the Beautiful Underground. He's going
to talk to me about his interests in

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the paranormal. Chris is a license
in practicing trans personal mental health therapist,

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a US Air Force BET, and
he has an interest in fortunan war,

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psychic phenomena and the occult. Welcome
Chris, Thank you, Deb. Okay,

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So can let's start with interpreting or
understanding some of those terms. I

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would really like to understand what trans
personal mental health therapist means. So,

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the idea behind trans personal is to
include say, the spiritual dimension in to

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therapy. It isn't what it isn't
virtual therapy, but clients and all the

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service we UH surveys we take and
the research so is that they want to

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talk about these anomalousts, sometimes numinous, sometimes disturbing experiences with their therapists.

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But therapists are trained to deny basically
those the existence of anomal anomalist phenomena.

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So trans personal therapists take that step
to include that in our practice and the

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way we view the client as an
important part of the psychic reality. So

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when you I guess one of the
Kevin Arno does his name, but he's

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a psychologist, and he released a
paper in two thousand and seven talking about

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the idea of instead of psychosis,
maybe we're looking at spiritual emergencies. And

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he's making the claim that in our
diagnoses the d s M five, we

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should be able to differentiate our diagnoses
for people who are you know, whether

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you call it ontological shock or as
Kevin Arnold's term, spiritual emergency, they

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both point to a reality of a
lot of people around the globe that needs

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to be recognized and integrated into treatment. So transpersonal tries to accommodate that which

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regular therapy would consider pathological. Now, is that something that one trains to

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be a part of or is that
just something that one can can offer in

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addition to normal licensure and services.
And I think it may be the same

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with other fields, but there's especially
in psychology therapy, somebody comes up with

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a therapy and then it's trademark,
it's copyright and then there's an institute,

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so calling yourself certain therapy Like for
me, I'm I grew up on young,

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you know young it was my is
my you know, considered my hero.

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But it's not so it's hard to
say I'm this type of therapist because

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somebody will say, well, you
can't say you're young in because you didn't

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do this, that and the other
thing, and you're not licensed here and

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that. So trans personal is probably
the most generic I can get without offending

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institutions who have trademark and copyrighted their
theories. Okay, yeah, I just

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I was curious because psychology is my
background as well. Also, I was

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just wondering if this is something something
sign Orfinely definitely tell self taught. I

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mean, even when I went to
grad school, I wanted to you know,

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they you're allowed to practice different modalities, and I wanted to have a

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you know, a depth psychology and
archetypal type approach that would allow for dream

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work. And you know, they
just didn't offer it. They accommodated it

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because that's what I wanted to do. And but I mostly you know,

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in grad school, I took the
courses that you know they had but I,

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you know, did a lot of
taught myself, and you know what

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the colleagues outside of my graduate cohort
to get what we're you're not being taught

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in school. It's not aligned to
the insurance industry model. And the training

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now is almost restricted by well,
this is what you need to do to

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get reimbursed. It's not we're we're
not doing the type of research and brought

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in the scope of our practice like
we should and have you know as early

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as fifty years ago. Yes,
Unfortunately, other than you coming forward and

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talking about this, the only other
group that I am aware of is Opus

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op Us you work, and I
don't know if you have connected with them

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and offered assistance or anything like that. But I haven't heard of a lot

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of other training for people that reaches
out to these areas now. And there

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was an attempt to get this information
into the APA. I think it was

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John Mack who submitted something to the
APA is to say, hey, we

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need to we need to talk about
this. And even again, when you

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look at the research, the you
know, the therapists are saying we need

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training in this, and it's just
not coming out. It's there is a

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huge stigma, and we talk about
the pilots and you a fos the stingmo

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of them coming forward. Therapists of
all stripes, if they practiced for any

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length of time, will experience clients
anomenous experiences or have them themselves, but

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you don't talk about it. Right. In fact, that was recently mentioned

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in the Liberation Times article I have
the name here why the defense repercussions found

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by all saff are profound? They
mentioned the psychology aspect, and one thing

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that was brought up was that,
unfortunately, most therapists are not prepared to

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accept the realities of the phenomenon.
That's right, Yeah, it's even when

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I talked my colleagues, you know, I'm only on here as Chris,

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I'm not sure yet, because not
only is there a lack of information on

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how to integrate this into our practice, there's a lack of information of Okay,

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how do I set up a practice
that you know, caters the wrong

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word, but specializes as in this
type of thing without your colleagues being like,

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oh, that's the you know,
that's the therapist that deals with all

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the people who think they're abducted by
aliens or have ghosts in her house.

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You know, there is a need
to bring this to a level of seriousness

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that at least my colleagues will be
like, oh good, if something comes

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up, can I you know,
ask if you know, consult with it

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and stuff like that. But that
doesn't happen because we don't talk about it.

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Right. It's unfortunate. It's almost
like stigma about trying to stop stigma.

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It's you know, it just built
on itself. And you know,

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I want to go back to what
you said about the John mac attempt to

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get the APA on board. It's
not well known, but Bigelow and an

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anonymous donor work together to do a
public poll with experiencers. They created a

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pamphlet and they sent the pamphlet all
around the country to members of the APA,

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and they offered also to do a
conference to educate them on the issue.

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Unfortunately, it seems that nothing came
of that. I have never heard

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of it until I found the pamphlet. I didn't even know it was for

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the APA. It they buried it, right, It's definitely not something that

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gets touched don when you're in psych
one oh one or you know, in

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any classes. It's unfortunate, and
you know, it's very difficult to provide

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adequate treatment if we're not aware of
what we need to be doing. So

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yeah, and just to piggyback on
that real quick, there is a new

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book that came out I just remember
it came out in twenty nineteen by doctor

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Paul Leslie, and it's called Shadows
in the Session and he is the first,

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I believe psychologists, you know,
since the days of young who came

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out and said, all right,
I'm having these experiences with my clients in

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session, and I wonder what other
of my colleagues around the world have the

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same thing. So he collected this
all the stories of these psychologists in this

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book and certain professions I guess as
just you're going to encounter this type of

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thing, and you know, the
ones who aren't trained or it's gonna be

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like it's weird or it needs to
be medicated away. So Shadows in the

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Session is a good book that kind
of deals with the fact that, yes,

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us therapists are are experiencing these things. And every one of those psychologists

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in there was anonymous. They didn't
want to put their name out there,

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right, And I did want to
mention for listeners that therapy is supposed to

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be treating symptoms, not causes,
so that is ideally how that works.

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But when you go to a therapist, they are supposed to be taking care

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of the depression, the anxiety,
helping you work through that. They are

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not supposed to be judging you based
on the causes. Unfortunately, when that

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is happening, that's because they're not
well trained, and that's kind of what

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we're talking about. They need more
training. Yeah, And one of the

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first things they teach you in school
is you are a therapist. You are

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a counselor. You are not an
investigator. You are not an interrogator.

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It's not your job to find out
if what they're saying is true. That's

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not your role. What you,
as a therapist should be doing is taking

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whatever is happening in her life and
hopefully finding helping them find meaning in it.

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And even if it is a fantasy
that they've made up for whatever reason,

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they're still meaning in the fantasy.
They're still meaning in the lie.

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And we're not investigators, and sessions
aren't interrogations, and we should remember that.

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I think, unfortunately, in the
history of the phenomenon, which I

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like to use more often now than
just UAPs, because I understand there's quite

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a bit more going on than objects. I feel like in the history,

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psychology has been used almost like a
weapon. First, it was used to

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silence the public by talking about,
you know, mass hysteria and fears of

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mass hysteria, which you know,
people wholly misunderstand because there's not really such

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a thing as mass hysteria, like
in a global scale, even if it

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even if that did happen, it
would be temporary, as it has been

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in every case. Also, and
then there are true incidents that happen that

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get lumped in with that with no
explanation about why that would even make sense.

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That's and for instance, the aerial
school incident was listed as an example

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of mass hysteria without any explanation as
to why it was put there. Yeah,

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like because none at all, not
even claiming there was any psychological disturbance

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at all. But yeah, I
mean, the only characteristic that it would

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have with mass hysteria is that they
were tight knit. I mean, they

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were they were classmates. Other than
that, you know, because you know,

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with massesteria in the cases where it
can occur, it's a tight knit

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group and there's intent behind it there, it's not it just doesn't manifest randomly.

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It's not a causal. It originates
from somewhere, and it's uses the

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weapon and it's used as a whapon. And this is this is my shadow

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that comes out sometimes. I thoroughly
dislike when people will say they're hallucinating or

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that's just delusional and and these are
just you know, people online. But

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it's man that that for me is
I have to I have to step away

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every now because they have no right
to say somebody's perspective is a delusion or

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yeah. I think we could go
into a whole nother conversation about how little

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we understand and actuality about our own
perspective. But I wanted to touch on

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another way that psychology has been used
as a weapon unfortunately, and that has

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to do with the military. It
seems that often in the past, when

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people tried to approach their senior officers
regarding UAP incidents, they were told that

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they would have to go get a
psychological evaluation, and if they did get

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that psychological evaluation, from then on
people could say, well, you had

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to go see someone for psychiatric help. And it seems like they were lose

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lose in that case, right,
So they either went without help or they

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got it and we're told, see, you're crazy, and they hand out

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those psyche valves fairly quickly, I
know. And this is you know,

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self disclosure on my part. When
I was at you know, boot camp,

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you know, they give you all
kinds of surveys and questionnaires, and

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one of the questionnaires is asking,
you know, h questions about death,

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like are you afraid to die?
And you know that type of stuff,

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and you know, personally, from
a spiritual standpoint, I'm you know,

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I'm afraid to think about what happens
to the ones I leave behind, but

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I personally have you know, faith
in something. But that triggered them to

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do a psychevl on me. And
at the end, I asked, you

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know, when I passed, I
was like what, and they're like,

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well, you had you know,
you're not afraid of death and all that

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stuff, and I think they were
didn't want any type of Rambo type personality

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out there, but it just did. Just that triggered a psyche val and

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nothing ever came in my career,
but it was just something real little in

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it. I feel like Clifford Stone
spoke about how they kept trying to push

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him to do on and he was
like, no, I know as soon

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as I do it, how you're
going to use it against me. So

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I don't know. It seems like
no win when on that one. And

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I think that's unfortunate because we clearly
have people who are dealing with PTSD after

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encountering something that they were not prepared
to deal with mentally. It's you know,

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people use terms like cognitive dissonance,
but it really boils down to if

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you're basically going through shock, you
encountered something that your brain was not prepared

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to register. In fact, many
people think we're still not registering everything because

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we just are not capable of it, and then you know they're not getting

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what they needed for assistance with it. Yeah. I think in the Liberation

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Times they used the term onto logical
shock, and I thought that that resonated

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with me. I talked about Kevin
Rnodes. He said spiritual emergency and that

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resonates, but ontological shock feels people
can digest that once they look up that

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term and yeah, it's real.
It's trauma. So there is no such

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thing as a vacuum, especially in
your psyche so trauma will fill up that

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vacuum. It doesn't matter if it's
because you're a new kitten, you know,

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passed away, or if you see
a UFO that it will fill up

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the vacuum. So the fact that
they would just deny that manifestation of trauma

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because it's not catalogued in a certain
way, it's and I think that comes

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down to a lot of the secrecy
because they have done things, whether via

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policy or not, that will have
to answer for. So it's they backed

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themselves into a corner and now the
lad's gonna shine on them and they're gonna

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have to fess up to a bunch
of things. And I don't know how

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it's going to turn out. Well. I certainly hope when they passed the

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NDAA that when they were talking about
the biological medical interest that they were going

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to have that they were also including
a psychological you know, they were going

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to start really taking it seriously,
because I think there's increased recognition that that

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is an issue. Unfortunately, you
know, since we were saying before,

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you know, Mac and Bigelow,
they were all working on this decade ago,

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so we're a little behind. But
hopefully we're going to get there and

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step up now, right, Yeah, I think you know one person here

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I know for me, you know, hearing people like misch Love, Jeffrey

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Mitchel Love is you know, he
inspires me to slowly come out with doctor

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Paul Leslie coming out, you know, just little things like that, and

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then me coming out, you know, even though I'm still just Chris and

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the last name. And again the
hesitancy is, Okay, how do we

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do this without, you know,
becoming a segment on the Doctor Phil Show.

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We want to do it seriously,
but we know the inevitable backlash will

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get from the critics. And then
Michel Love even said that people have lost

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their license because of this, and
now I don't know anybody who has,

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but you know, I'm sure he
could give the details. Well, I

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know they went after mac at Harvard. Yeah, they pretty seriously and investigated

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him, and it was difficult for
him to keep doing what he was doing.

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So let's turn it to a more
positive note. Let's talk about someone

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who is serious in psychiatry and psychology, who a lot of people have been

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quoting and mentioning. And you know
who it's going to be, Carl Young.

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Can you please tell people who Carl
Jung is and a little bit about

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what he's been saying and how it
relates to the phenomenon. Why do people

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keep mentioning him? So Carl Young
was contemporaries with Freud. Basically Freud looked

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at him as his predecessor. Freud
a neurologist, a psychiatrist, very hard

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science, and Young, who you
know, was at the end of his

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career. I think it's safe to
say that Young was more mystic than he

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was medical, and you know,
I appreciate that in him. But Bernardo

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Castrop has a very good way of
describing being Carl Jung and how he is.

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He was the he kept a light
lit through the twentieth century for the

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acknowledgment of something greater. Psychology wanted
to get recognized. They wanted to come

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out of the philosophy classrooms, and
they wanted to be recognized as a science.

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So they were The zeitgeist of the
time was to remove anything that the

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hard scientists can say that doesn't make
any sense. So a lot of things

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that they would develop even though they
were experiencing things in session. One example

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with Freud is so we all know
about telepathy to be able to you know,

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really you know, get thoughts from
other people. Well, this this

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kept happening to Freud, and Freud
did not want to acknowledge that it was

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happening in session, so he gave
it a fancy name called thought transference,

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you know. So it was like, oh, oh yeah, it's basically

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saying, yeah, sometimes telepathy happens
in a session. So Young is not

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afraid to say that these things were
there, so he kept that. Uh.

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He opened up various terms that when
he when they come, when you

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hear about him, they resonate so
much with like, oh, yeah,

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that's what the name is. Like
archetype the collective unconscious right now in the

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context of UFOs, and that's where
I go. I know, ups,

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but I'm always the UFO guy.
He saw them as representative of the collective

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unconscious, the manifestation of our self
and our you know, for wholeness.

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But then at the end of his
research said that, but they're physical,

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you know, so we're dealing with
something that's physical and psychic or consciousness,

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and the collective unconscious to Young was
filled with these archetypes. Archetypes are like

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cookie cutters, but they hold meaning, like the mother archetype, the father

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archetype. Archetypes. He referred to
them as psychic organs. They're there and

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the collective unconscious to ensure that humanity
has a similar evolution. Everybody is born,

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has a mother or has the experience
of being mother, even if that

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mother may be out of the picture. The archetype is filled with them through

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input from the collective unconscious. He
saw the collective unconscious as having a type

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of volition on its own and a
will. He also saw that our interactions

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with archetypes with over the course of
our life creates what we would call complexes.

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Now you could become obsessed or possessed
with an archetype and these you know,

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complexes. Anyway, the idea is
the collective unconscious can manifest physical The

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collective unconscious is there to endure that
we have a similar psychic development. The

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phenomenon seems to follow a pattern that
mimics the technological age of our time,

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almost like it's putting a carrot in
front of us, you know, and

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you know we can go back to
where you know, they were seeing a

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stairway to heaven, to a flying
carriage. You know, it would morph

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with the time that would make sense
now. Of course, you know in

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the fourteen lower you can go back
and people were seeing flying saucers and and

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the like, you know, and
paintings and the Renaissance and stuff like that.

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But the idea is that it is
reactive to us on a conscious level.

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Yes, can you please explain the
forteen law? That was definitely one

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of those things I wanted a better
explanation of as well. So Forti and

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Lare is everything UFOs, Bigfoot,
Mothman, and the way I kind of

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described for T and Lare is you
know, these little, small local newspapers

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that have published these weird events or
experiences that people in their community have had.

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And a lot of these small newspapers, if anybody's familiar with them,

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you know, they're not out to
smear their fellow community members. So people

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have been having experiences with something or
something is singular or plural, and I

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find it fasting that I can pull
up a newspaper clipping from nineteen sixty sixty

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and read an article about a woman
who woke up to find three orange men

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in her you know, bedroom.
And you know, with Jacques Valley,

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we'll talk about how it's like the
kookie theater or absurdity of the manifestations are

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because they repeat himself, appear to
be intentional. So do you do you

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get the sense that it's I believe
he's called it a trickster Do you get

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the sense that it's part of this
game that the phenomenon is playing with us.

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I believe that there is a trickster
entities. My first experience was with

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what I now go back as a
trickster entity. But I do believe are

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dealing with all the above because the
collective unconscious throughout history of humanity is recording

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everybody's not only their lives, but
their their mental experiences, and the collective

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unconscious will grow and change with us. That the young said that the actual

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physical world is the manifestation of our
collective unconscious, I mean, he's getting

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into that idealism now, and I'm
sorry, I kind of I wander on

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these topics because that's okay. I
feel I feel like there's a connection to

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a lot of different things going on. And one thing that's interesting is that

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if you look at people who are
studying DNA right now, they're saying that

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what we do in our lives,
how we interact with the world impacts our

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genes, basically turning them on and
off. I think they call it epigenetics

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or something like that. And it
seems very similar to some of the consciousness

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concepts, the idea that you know, we're kind of manifesting things and it's

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we're actually literally having a physical effect
on ourselves. Does that mean I believe

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that, you know, I believe
that. I mean there is you can

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get into like the idealism, like
you know with Castrup's analytical idealism, where

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everything's kind of a manifestation of one
consciousness and all of us are disassociated alters

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of this one consciousness and when we
see ghosts or aliens, we're seeing disassociated

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parts of this larger consciousness. And
if if that is the model, everything

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is true. You know, it
comes down to like whatever you can imagine

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it could be. And that comes
back to that absurdity aspect to it,

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which to me, it's just that
is interesting. Yes, well, I

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mean, is it absurd or is
it we just don't understand because I'm fairly

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sure we didn't even know that much
about genes, say, I don't know

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fifty years ago, right, So
yeah, so some things are just things

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we do not understand yet. I
even I've seen people say even when it

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comes to UAPs, they're clearly doing
something that's natural in some way, we

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just don't understand it because we haven't
learned everything yet. Yeah. Absolutely,

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and the way we look at it. And I heard somebody I think it

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was Nolan who just recently said something
to the effect of we're expecting to have

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these experiences individually, that this intelligence
is trying to communicate to us individually.

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But what if it looks at us
as looks at humanity as one giant organism,

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and it's trying to get the attention
of the organism like we would get

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the attention of a beehive. So
it's not trying to reach out to us

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individually in that model, but it's
trying to just prod humanity as one organism,

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right, which again goes into what
really is kind of implying that we're

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being guided towards something that Yeah,
it's all. It is interesting. It's

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really for some reason as we talk
about this, I'm thinking about like an

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old fashioned typewriter, you know how
you like push down the keys one at

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a time. It's not quite as
fast and smoothed as keyboards nowadays, you

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really have to push, really calculate
getting those keys in place. So maybe

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it's like they're trying to send a
message pushing the buttons down, Like when

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are they going to read the sentence
we are writing? Yeah, and you

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know with the crop circles that I
mean that obviously some of the hoaxes,

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and I hate having to preface that
before everything every topic, but there is

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certainly some crop circles that have been
manifested by something that we didn't know,

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and they there's an intelligence that just
seems to emanate emanate from them, and

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what are they trying to tell us? You know? So how do you

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talk to humanity that maybe you know
kind of what's you know, partially what's

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going on, and but the absurity
factor keeps you going in one hundred different

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directions, and you know, somebody
like John Keel kind of like drove them

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off the edge at the end.
So I would I guess I want to

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go back a little bit. You
started talking about your experiences, would you

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be willing to share a little bit
about your own personal experiences with the phenomena

335
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on? Yeah, So the the
first thing I'd say is there was no

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craft. There was no it was
in a UFO. I'm not even sure

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if I would put it in that
category. It was an entity. There's

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a therapeutic intervention that we we use, very simple, but the idea you

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just asked the client what's your earliest
memory, And the idea is that your

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earliest memory will change based on the
mood when I ask you that question.

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But when I do my own therapy, and you know, my own introspection,

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I had this. My first memory
is this entity. And you know,

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for the longest time, I called
it the devil baby. That's just

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what I called it. I was
three four years old and it would there

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was my mom had this cookie jar
and the head came off and she put

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her on the counter so I couldn't
reach it because I went to the cookies

347
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and this entity, like I was
trying to got this entity was walked up

348
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the counter and knocked the lid off
and it fell on the ground and broke.

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And you know, I got blamed
for it, like I did not

350
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do that. Can you tell me
what it looked like? The entity it

351
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was? I called it the devil
baby, but I don't like that term

352
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now because I don't think it was
ever being the leveolent. It was screwing

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with me, It was teasing me. That's why I came to call it

354
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a trickster. But it looked like
like a Benjamin Button type of baby,

355
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like a baby that was an old
man that was older than it was.

356
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And obviously it's affect and the way
it moved wasn't baby like, but that's

357
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how it, you know, presented
itself to me. And of course,

358
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now looking back, if it was
in facing with my collective unconscious, at

359
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that point in my life, I
didn't have a lot of archetypes integrated.

360
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I had a mom, the dad, the house family. There wasn't a

361
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lot of archetypes integrated. So when
this trickster entity shows up, perhaps he

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shows up in the way that I
would find as threatening, but again I

363
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never hurt me. And then you
know, we moved away from their numbers

364
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other experiences that I had throughout my
life, and kind of what led me

365
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to counseling is like, kind of
what's going on here, Like I know,

366
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I'm not crazy to use a non
clinical term, but I'm having these

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areas is nonetheless, And so when
started practicing, and you know, we

368
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had one my advisor was a great, great lady, even though she didn't

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kind of know what I wanted to
do. She was just like, hey,

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go ahead. But she told me. She's like, we were talking

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about synchronicities, and she said,
you'll find that whatever problems you're going through

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at the moment personally, the next
client and you're the next client that walks

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through your door is going to be
having that same problem. So if you're

374
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dealing with problems your marriage, your
client's gonna walk in deal with problems or

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marriage. And it's so interesting how
that works. Well, I start to

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get clients who were having anomalous experiences
like it. Just I kept getting those

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those clients and the synchronicity, I
guess the definition that I have of it

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is when our conscious intention is aligned
with the uncollective unconscious and they come into

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alignment. Basically, it's a sick
like you're on the right path, you're

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vibrating at the resident freek that you
need to be on right now. And

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the way that I will let you
know the collective unconscious is to give you

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these little things, a little path
to let you know you're going the right

383
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way, and they can give you
the opposite secretouy say, hey, don't

384
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go any further so I would have
these experience. Go ahead. I was

385
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gonna say, it's interesting. I
hear a lot of people talk about things

386
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like getting downloads that guide them or
wondering why they end up where they do,

387
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and kind of feeling like they're being
driven. People used to use terms

388
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like destiny, serendipity, you know, things like that. I feel like

389
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you're just you have a different vocab
for it, but you you're more aware

390
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:59.400
of it. Yeah, it's And
there's somebody on Twitter and he's a great

391
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:07.599
jockey, but he said one time
that her people who have experienced with the

392
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phenomena, or if they don't,
they're just touched. And once that happens,

393
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once that's activated, you become hooked
by it. And for me,

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I was driven into this and partially, you know, now I know why

395
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I'm I don't like the term psychic. I get, but I get impressions

396
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that have been validated, you know, through twenty years of marriage and now

397
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ten years of practice with my colleagues. It's just I can get an impression

398
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when I sit with somebody that I
know. My colleagues don't, and you

399
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.800
know, Milton Erickson, another famous
psychologist, was the same way. He

400
00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:00.760
had these. He would never call
it psychic. He just you get downloads.

401
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:05.159
I guess the term for it,
and I always call them impressions.

402
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:10.159
It's not imagies. It's just so
okay. I know. I feel like

403
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:16.000
a lot of people talk about that, their impaths, and then of course

404
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:21.920
a lot of those people end up
in the psychology field. So I don't

405
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.440
know. I wonder, you know, is it we're driven to the field

406
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because we have some of those any
abilities? Do you think or do you

407
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:37.199
think it's just an overall curiosity about
all of it? I think both.

408
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:46.480
I think d innate ability part.
So counting is hard, therapy is hard.

409
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.519
You know. You I worked construction
jobs fifty or sixty hours a week,

410
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:59.000
and the level of exhaustion I would
have after that job was nowhere compared

411
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:04.360
compared to six, seven, eight
clients in a row. So it's exhaust

412
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:14.039
and the need there needs to be
an innate ability because you're become robotic,

413
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:17.280
you know, And that's kind of
the system that is designed. I'll get

414
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:23.519
as many people through as possible,
but there is an idea of that.

415
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:32.440
I am here because I get these
impressions. What am I going to use

416
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:37.119
it for? It wasn't like a
conscious idea, but you know, I

417
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.800
imagine you know, great athletes,
you know, just know they just are

418
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.880
led to a sport where they excel. Yeah, that's a good point.

419
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.960
I think that probably happens for other
people. In fact, I think doctor

420
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.519
Pisolka calls it, of course,
like a calling. I don't know if

421
00:40:54.559 --> 00:41:01.239
you've read American Cosmic. She's great. Yes, yeah, I love how

422
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:07.639
she looked at from the religion and
vocal or aspect, where she right off

423
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:15.800
the bat says, I'm here see
if what these people are telling me is

424
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:23.320
right or wrong. That's just documentary
experiences. Listen to people. And the

425
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:29.000
reception that she's got, especially from
our community, has been nothing but positive

426
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:35.039
because she's she's not out there trying
to with you know, trying to get

427
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:37.599
people just like, Hey, I'd
like to hear that this is not going

428
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:46.760
away. It's fascinating. It's my
undergrad was in social soology, so I

429
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:54.079
the closer I can get to you. Well, I feel like her approach

430
00:41:54.079 --> 00:42:00.079
has definitely been you know, more
open minded. Like she she's also been

431
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:05.360
very honest about her own opinion at
the same time, and for some reason

432
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:08.480
she manages to do that without being
offensive. And I wish we could all

433
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:17.719
do right. Yeah, yeah,
I know, I just I hope everyone

434
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:22.760
starts learning that skill because she's she
took it very seriously. She took it

435
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:27.960
with uh, you know, her
own opinions still intact, and was willing

436
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.519
to change her opinions over time.
I think that, you know, I

437
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:37.679
think we need more academics to come
in with that approach. People who are

438
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:43.199
willing to listen, not necessarily put
their opinion first, they can break their

439
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:49.760
opinion, but who are willing to
listen to the other opinions. I couldn't

440
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:53.639
agree more. And it's a recent
phenomena, you know, it's you know,

441
00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:00.840
only for the past hundred years have
we been conditioned as a culture to

442
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:05.679
deny this stuff. You know,
one hundred or fifty years ago, you

443
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:15.639
know that wasn't the case. So
our cultures to change almost two extenomena.

444
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:22.960
Our culture the way is structure right
now, it's almost it's misaligned with where

445
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:31.320
the phenomena wants to guess actually hit
on that, right, I keep I

446
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:36.480
keep talking about. You know,
when you look at the psychology of humans,

447
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:45.599
there's about three tiers and one is
magic, what is science, and

448
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:50.199
one is religion. And we used
to be at a place where I think

449
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:54.320
those things were more connected and now, you know, maybe we're coming back

450
00:43:54.360 --> 00:44:00.880
to being connected on those three again. But there was quite a delay,

451
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:07.360
it wasn't there. Yeah, And
it's and it's a recent phenomena, but

452
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:12.480
we don't know that, you know, because it's all we know, you

453
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:15.400
know. But if you know,
we could place our culture two hundred years

454
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:23.079
ago, this stuff wouldn't be as
dismissed as easily. And the Internet and

455
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:29.679
the way we're able to share information
now, it's there's no way of the

456
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:35.400
dying it. The only way is
how do we integrate what's happening? And

457
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:42.480
I believe cultural and societal changes are
necessary to integrate this because as we're structured

458
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:49.519
now, I don't believe we can
integrate the phenomena. Yeah, it's a

459
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:58.519
little too much opposition, right,
Yeah, Yeah, it's interesting. Well,

460
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:00.199
Lesa, try to try. I'm
in on that one. For some

461
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:05.960
reason, that was odd. I
don't know if you heard that. I'm

462
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:09.280
definitely wasn't. It was Alex,
Okay, Yeah, I was like,

463
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:15.400
I don't, We're not no,
it was Alexa, and I'm like,

464
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:21.760
it's so funny because what I was
about to say was I remember Jock Phil

465
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:27.639
talked a little bit about how the
next phase for us is gonna be basically

466
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:32.800
like the Internet, right, And
I can't help but find myself comparing the

467
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:39.000
collective consciousness to the Internet and how
we basically are using AI to do what

468
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:49.039
we may have already been doing but
not so aware of. Does that make

469
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:54.639
yeah, I have No, it's
absolutely a lot. I have a theory

470
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:00.440
too, because we have. I
think it's just that the collect consciousness empirically

471
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:06.320
through not only young work, you
know the seventy five You know, fifty

472
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:12.960
years after that, the collective unconsciousness
is real. And then where's the collective

473
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:22.400
consciousness? You know, the the
collective unconscious waking up and the Internet feels

474
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:30.679
an means to wake up the collective
consciousness. Now you and others have theorized

475
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.440
if this happen, it's going to
be you know hard, it's given birth.

476
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:42.280
You would give birth to well collective
consciousness. And that doesn't mean we

477
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:46.679
all can read each other's thoughts instantly, but I believe it means that our

478
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:53.440
ability to react in a unified manner
is you know, one day compared to

479
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:58.960
one year, we're going to be
able to move almost like a collective organism.

480
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:04.440
That's I believe where we're going.
What's funny about that is it goes

481
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:09.400
full circle back to what you said
before about if the phenomenon sees us as

482
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:16.719
one organism, and it's almost like
we're becoming what maybe what they wanted us

483
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:24.280
to become. I it would like, I guess it's probably anthropromising it whatever

484
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:30.599
the word is. But like if
I were an intelligence and I wanted to

485
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:35.719
contact Earth, and right now Earth
was separated into seventy nine different tribes,

486
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:40.519
all believing that, you know,
there should be the diplomat. I'm going

487
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:47.000
to wait until they organize themselves a
little better, you know, then the

488
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.000
theorist of new World order and everything. It's like, I think just practically

489
00:47:52.440 --> 00:48:01.000
the Phenomena would rather deal with us
collectively as opposed to individual And it's funny

490
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:06.079
because I have to say, the
cliche take me to your leader came into

491
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:08.760
my head. And of course,
of course it would make sense if we

492
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:15.519
just had the one leader for them
to be taken to, right, yeah,

493
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:19.559
yeah, And we don't have anything
we don't have you know that structured

494
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:22.719
you know, I know there's exopolitics
being discussed at to U N, but

495
00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:29.239
it's really kind of like I think
a side project do over lunch. I

496
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:34.079
don't think they're really engaged with Okay, what if this happens, what's the

497
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:38.440
protocol? And honestly, I think
that every country would argue that they have

498
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:44.119
a different protocol, you know,
like one country, Yeah, one country

499
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:46.920
might be like, hey, help
us out with curing cancer. Another might

500
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:51.679
be, hey, make us better
ships. Another might be like, hey,

501
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.920
you're from our religious text, can
you be our god again? You

502
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:59.880
know, it's I think every country
will respond differently, and that might be

503
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:05.159
a little more It might be more
complicated to have that engagement because of that.

504
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:09.199
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
It was that one Carrie movie where

505
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:15.719
he becomes God and he has to
answer the prayers and the prayers come through

506
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:21.840
email, and the email is just
like you have like through thirty billion unread

507
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:27.679
messages. And so when we look
at and that's our ego talking, our

508
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:30.719
ego consciousness when we said we wanted
to interact with us individually, and I

509
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:40.039
think the evolution of any intelligent being
will be to somehow eventually coalesce to be

510
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:47.719
a collective and then maybe then we'll
have some form of I guess contact disclosure.

511
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.760
Yeah, people always talk about you
know, of course, some of

512
00:49:52.800 --> 00:50:00.960
these civilizations, if they are extraterrestrial, could have been around like billions of

513
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:05.119
years, you know, longer than
us, right, and could have reached

514
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:09.559
a very different place in their civilization
than we have. They could have already

515
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:15.199
figured out a lot of these things
and gotten over boundaries of uh, you

516
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:20.440
know, country lines and things like
that, and finished all their battles and

517
00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:27.639
finally figured it out. You know. Yeah, there's an Nolan was talking

518
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.519
with Lex Friedman. I think he
asked him a question to the effect of,

519
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:36.760
well, how does something that's conscious
become physical? And Nolan went on

520
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:42.880
to describe how you could, you
know, individually, you know, charge

521
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:50.440
individual molecules to do certain things,
and then you know, in theory that

522
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:55.840
could happen if you know what the
goal is, the idea that it could

523
00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:01.199
just like an app or one day
we'll have the science to be able to

524
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:06.840
do that. And once you get
to that level, I imagine the science

525
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:10.679
is just quick, you know,
when you're quantum computing some of this stuff.

526
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:15.480
Well, I think quantum computers are
where they're looking now, right.

527
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:22.719
And actually, when I was doing
research initially on this topic, the UAP

528
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:29.960
topic, I did not find just
one place where they were working on moving

529
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:36.480
craft with our brains. I found
multiple projects working on that. And of

530
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:39.920
course, you know, Elon Musk
is working on putting chips inside our brains.

531
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:44.400
And you know, I feel like
we might be trying to speed up

532
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:47.159
a process that maybe we would have
come to on our own. I think

533
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:55.280
we have maybe evolved to perceive some
more things and maybe are trying to open

534
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:59.920
our eyes to things a little bit
more now. But I didn't. We're

535
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:04.880
and you say, I to speed
that process up quite a bit, Yeah,

536
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.000
I agree, And that was you
know, I'm not a tech guy,

537
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:08.559
but I asked them, you know, a tech guys like you know,

538
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:16.679
once we have a practically functioning quantum
computing system, you know, all

539
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:21.039
the a lot of these problems that
we have not been able to solve,

540
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:25.559
especially you know when they talk about
space quantum that they'll be able to solve.

541
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:30.440
And he's basically he's like, yeah, he's like they recently did a

542
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:37.079
quantita or it took him. I
don't A couple of minutes to solve this

543
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:43.840
equation that would have taken regular computers
one hundred years. So multiply that by

544
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:46.239
a thousand equation. You can feed
this thing a thousand equations a day,

545
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:52.119
and now we're, you know,
millennia in the future. When it comes

546
00:52:52.119 --> 00:53:00.440
to our knowledge. It's used a
way, right, So knowing that that

547
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:05.320
we are, you know, pretty
much catching up as much as possible to

548
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:12.079
the phenomenon in some ways, which
hypothesis do you feel like you kind of

549
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:15.800
lean towards? It sounds like you
spoke a lot about the control hypothesis from

550
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:22.719
Vallet, and of course you know
there's a possibility that we touched on et

551
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:28.559
h. The extraterrestrial hypothesis a little
bit. But which way do you feel

552
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:35.039
like you're leaning or are you just
staying open to any possibility. I'll always

553
00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:43.239
stay open because it's self serving.
It's more fun to stay open. It's

554
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:52.360
everything, then close myself off.
So I believe the UFO phenomena as we

555
00:53:52.400 --> 00:54:00.440
call it now, is not just
UFOs, but it's also go hosts,

556
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:06.599
and it's also out of add the
experiences and all these things overlap in a

557
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:13.400
ven diagram type of way, which
then leads my hypothesis that you know,

558
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:20.000
whatever to collective unconscious, that you
know, the the consciousness that spawned each

559
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:28.599
individual consciousness to be able to reflect
on it, there's no bounds to that.

560
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:38.480
Complexes damons you. He let it
open that the collective unconscious could ontologically

561
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:47.559
be its own society and have certain
aspects of the phenomena that do these things.

562
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:53.840
Certains that these things that they're just
as disparre and unorganized as humanity.

563
00:54:55.400 --> 00:55:02.800
And there's even further theory that you
know, we are the collective unconscious of

564
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:09.480
that you know reality, that is
the yin and yang. You know,

565
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:14.119
we're kind of on top of one
another. That they look at us as

566
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:17.880
you know, they're collective unconscious,
as we look at them, and you

567
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:22.519
know, we're basically staring in the
mirror. So I believe a lot of

568
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:27.840
it originates from the collective unconscious.
That doesn't mean they're not intelligent and under

569
00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:30.559
their own volition, and it doesn't
mean they're physical, but I believe they

570
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:35.320
use that as a means to get
here. Well, what's interesting about that

571
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:43.159
is it's almost another way of thinking
of interdimensional yes exactly, and that's so

572
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:47.119
young called the collective unconscious, because
that's the term of the time, you

573
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:52.280
know, And in his letters with
Polly, the Young Polly letters, you

574
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:57.159
know, that's exactly what he was
saying. He was telling Polly that,

575
00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:01.119
you know, you're described quantum physics
to me with different words that I was

576
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:08.440
describing psychology. That they mimic each
other. So there's there's there's a hard

577
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:14.639
science to it, right, And
I think that's what I'm discovering the more

578
00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:20.559
I explore this. I'm definitely,
you know, obviously taking the research approach

579
00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:24.320
and trying to explore as much as
I can and understand it. And I'm

580
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:29.840
also trying to do it in a
way that that's tangible for the general public.

581
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:32.559
So that's why I'm always kind of
picking at little that sounds like that

582
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:37.280
word and whatever. I'm like,
you know, we got to simplify things.

583
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:39.719
I think we get lost a little
bit in some of the more complicated

584
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:45.000
concepts, and really just you know, when you're going to be having a

585
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:52.039
conversation at Thanksgiving about interdimensional beings,
we better be able to explain it to

586
00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:55.280
to Uncle Joe. You know,
we can't. We can't be throwing out

587
00:56:55.320 --> 00:57:00.880
things that they don't understand. So
I don't know. I think that also

588
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:05.519
in my experience so far, looking
at everything, there's a lot of different

589
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:12.480
things going on, and there are
some common patterns. Yes, there's there's

590
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:19.239
a lot of pattern I mean,
as far as my hypothesis, that's as

591
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:22.719
certain as I could get. Now, it's real. I don't know why

592
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:30.840
you're out, but it's real.
Yeah, I think we're all sighing.

593
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:35.679
Finally that the government has accepted that, admitting that as well. Right,

594
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.119
finally after well, people say seventy
years, but we know it's longer,

595
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:45.360
right, I'm personal. Well,
it was room for me to say to

596
00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:49.840
my wife, be like, see, I told you, I know,

597
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:55.559
I know, I I you right. I also greatly appreciate having a law

598
00:57:55.599 --> 00:58:00.199
on the books to point out to
people, you know, someone's taking this

599
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:06.360
seriously, don't laugh at me.
Yeah, exactly. And then that's an

600
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:09.559
element that stigma's still there, you
know, even though we're talking openly here,

601
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:14.719
the stigma is still there. All
right. Let me, yes,

602
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:20.880
I know. I think that it's
interesting. I will tell you, since

603
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:24.639
I am in the field of psychology, that you'll appreciate. I have told

604
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:31.119
some of my coworkers about my interest
in UFOs and instead of being ridiculed or

605
00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:35.760
laughed at or whatever, they were
very open minded. And one of them

606
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:44.639
turned around and told me their UFO
story. And that's when you do,

607
00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:49.320
Like generalachar, I think it's over
half the population has had a powerful experience

608
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:53.960
in their lifetine. So when we're
saying that these are rare, they're not

609
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:57.880
rare. You're you know, it's
like a flow of a coin. If

610
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:01.239
you're going to have an experience that
you can and explain right. Well,

611
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:06.400
I think that if more people were
looking for it, it would probably as

612
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:10.320
they say, look back right,
and it's reactive. I always say that

613
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:14.920
to my clients that whatever you're dealing
with, if it's part of the club

614
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:17.320
unconsciously, you know, it's reactive. And we know that this is a

615
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:23.159
co creative process that no one is
under You're under no one's control. Mm

616
00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:30.880
hm. So I know that we
are wrapping up shortly because we've reached an

617
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:34.960
hour, and I really want to
give you a chance to talk about the

618
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:39.320
web page that you're building based on
your interest and your background. Can you

619
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:49.239
please tell listeners about that? Yeah? Yeah, so at first, so

620
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:55.280
I've been moved for decades, just
you know, personally. And there was

621
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:59.760
a time I was like fourteen years
old, many majors. I had all

622
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:05.719
my collection of UFO books and haunting
books and vhs is of all my bed

623
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:07.719
and my mom came in, She's
like, what is this? And I

624
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:12.880
said, this is the beautiful underground. It just came out, so this

625
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:19.639
idea that at least there was a
lot of fear to the unknown, and

626
01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:22.280
I always thought it was fun.
And that's why I was like, hey,

627
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:24.440
this is this is fun to go
in these different things. So start

628
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:29.360
researching and practicing and trying and more
serious. And I got to the point

629
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.360
where I had more to say.
So I was like, I'm gonna start

630
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:37.880
a blog and then I'm you know, start writing, and my my research

631
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.519
is all over the place, so
I got some over here. When I'm

632
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:46.760
trying to reference something because i'm you
know, academic to a fault, sometimes

633
01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:52.519
it takes me a half hour to
track down where I heard that one phrase

634
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:55.599
that I wanted to now, you
know, reference in what I'm writing.

635
01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:04.559
So I'm going to just upload all
my research in a like a web server

636
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:13.840
organization so I can take all my
and do content analysis on it. I'm

637
01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:19.199
starting to do meta analysis on So
I'm never going to be able to read

638
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:23.840
the thousands of UFO books that are
out there of people and their experiences.

639
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:29.599
But if all those books were somehow
uploaded into a server and you can do

640
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:37.159
like content analysis on the whole corpus, you could find patterns that we aren't

641
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:42.440
recognizing right now. So I have
this big idea that I'll be able to

642
01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:46.599
do something like that. But the
thought behind it is, I want to

643
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:53.320
organize my research exactly for me,
and in the process if other people find

644
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:58.280
that, Hey, I like the
way that is, and when I upload

645
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:00.239
articles, I feel I'm going to
do it in a way that you can

646
01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:06.519
search them the content of it,
not just an image. So that's the

647
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:12.000
idea, and it's just fun.
I'm you know, I'm having a good

648
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:16.320
time with it right now. Right
well, you know, I'm going to

649
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:21.039
put that on the UFO connector because
it sounds fascinating. So you're gonna have

650
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.440
to message me as soon as it's
live. Absolutely, you're going on.

651
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:28.800
I'm always on your side, And
I have like a list of what I'm

652
01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:31.719
just calling friends to just be like
because obviously I'm pulling information from work and

653
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.199
I think this kind of where a
lot of it starts. It's it's like,

654
01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:37.320
man, I wish I had everything
that I would need in one spot

655
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:43.679
and then I wouldn't have to go
all over So it's very self serving venture.

656
01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:45.639
And if other people like it awesome, well yeah, I think I

657
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:52.679
was frustrated because when I was doing
my research, I was finding things hidden

658
01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:59.079
all over the place and it was
not connected, which is exactly why I

659
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:05.880
needed it a connectre like so I
and I also wanted to support all the

660
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:09.519
work other people had done. So
I wanted people to not start from scratch

661
01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:14.679
like I had felt like I had
to do. It's a fabulous job,

662
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:20.960
right, It's yeah, I mean
get in there and it's it's nice and

663
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.239
simple, you know. And that's
one thing about my say. I don't

664
01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.559
think I'm gonna do like ads or
anything. It's just going to be like,

665
01:03:29.079 --> 01:03:32.199
all right, this is for all
yah to be fast and quick and

666
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:37.559
right. And I'm glad you're taking
the fun approach, you know. It's

667
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:43.320
funny. People don't always react well
to my approach to the phenomenon. I

668
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:49.320
do not have the level of fear
that I have encountered in other people.

669
01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:55.960
I actually think of it as natural, and that's not always taken very fall,

670
01:03:57.519 --> 01:04:02.800
But I have a similar idea about
it. Yeah, I know I'm

671
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:04.960
not I'm like, hey, come
on, and then to talk about oh

672
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:08.840
yeah, initiating contact of that,
you don't mind if I do, Like,

673
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:15.519
yeah, I'm not so bad that
I'm like out there saying okay,

674
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:17.880
just put me on your ship per
se. Like I've heard people say that,

675
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:23.840
and I've been I've been made fun
of and told that I'd be the

676
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.159
person on top of the tower with
the sign if a big ship showed up

677
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:32.960
in Independence Day. But I don't
think I'm I don't think I'm that far.

678
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:38.159
I think it's more like when we
have a discussion, to me,

679
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:43.559
it's almost like we're talking about whales
or anything that's natural to me, like

680
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:46.639
comments asteroids. Oh, if that's
natural to me, we could be talking

681
01:04:46.679 --> 01:04:51.800
about you know, a NASA spacecraft. You know, It's like to me,

682
01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:58.519
it's just part of the natural world. So I hope more people are

683
01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:03.199
able to imfray sit in a positive
way, either with the find or the

684
01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:09.599
natural, or if they're not and
they're still struggling, they have learned from

685
01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:15.280
this discussion that there's people available who
are going to support that process. There's

686
01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:20.320
people who are doing the work like
you, and there's people at OPUS,

687
01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:27.679
and there's experience or support groups.
So people who are struggling with it will

688
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:32.480
find somebody if they need it.
Absolutely, yeah, you know, and

689
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.920
I always say, just from a
Nettal standpoint that you know, the Beautiful

690
01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:42.840
Underground is not affiliated with my private
practice, but it's it's my passion.

691
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:46.519
They're both my passion. So if
anybody's out there who sees this, he's

692
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:49.440
like, yeah, I have a
lot of questions. I get a lot

693
01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:57.400
of dms like that, and just
and I they just times just need it

694
01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:01.280
framed in a different way, or
sometimes just a matter of okay, when

695
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:05.840
you go in you want to ask
these questions mm hmm, and they're like,

696
01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:10.199
okay, I feel better now.
I have three questions. Ask when

697
01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:14.199
I go to my therapist if it's
going to be a fit or not right.

698
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:19.320
And of course I would like to
for anyone listening who is having issues

699
01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:25.400
with mental health and is hesitant to
speak to a therapist, I'd like to

700
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:30.400
remind you, as we said earlier, a therapist is not supposed to be

701
01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:34.559
judging the cause. They're supposed to
be treating the symptoms, and if you

702
01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:41.360
are struggling, they're getting literally paid
to help people who are struggling. And

703
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:44.960
if you just are in with one
that's not the right match, you're going

704
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:47.719
to find out there's going to be
people like Chris who are so don't give

705
01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:54.199
up. Your mental health is extremely
important. I just wanted to make sure

706
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:58.679
people hurt that. Absolutely, absolutely, there are a lot of people out

707
01:06:58.679 --> 01:07:02.840
there to help, right So,
Chris, could you please let people know

708
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:12.159
where they can find you right now? The only place on that is Twitter.

709
01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:16.079
I'm a social media news of four
months ago, but I'm at ghost

710
01:07:16.199 --> 01:07:23.960
Archetype. Are at ghost Archetype and
the Beautiful Underground is my my title and

711
01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:30.519
my name. My name is Chris. But you know, the irony of

712
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:35.800
all this is as I'm talking about
how we need to be more open and

713
01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:40.840
you know, not give into the
stigma. I'm still just Chris, and

714
01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:50.000
you know I'm still semi anonymous.
I just don't feel like having a conversation

715
01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:56.039
yet. You know, I think
my reasoning is a little different, but

716
01:07:57.079 --> 01:08:00.440
I will say that I did think
of another reason. I work with children

717
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:04.320
a great deal, and I really
don't think they need to see me on

718
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:14.559
the internet talking about dmt elves.
That's another reason right there. Yeah,

719
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:17.079
I like the X files. And
there's this one person I follow that she

720
01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:24.000
always puts X file stuff up,
but supposedly she does like seductive fan fiction

721
01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:28.079
with the X files and her students. She's a high school teacher and her

722
01:08:28.119 --> 01:08:32.039
students found out. To me,
that's just as funny. But you've got

723
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:36.319
to be careful what you put out
there. I know, we were talking

724
01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:44.399
recently about some people have had some
very interesting teachers right now. For instance,

725
01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:49.119
some people have Rick Dodi as their
math teacher, and some people had

726
01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:53.319
Heinek as a teacher. You know, like, how cool was that?

727
01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:58.600
But you but you know, that's
okay. They don't need to know what

728
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:01.960
I'm doing, and in my mind, I'm doing it kind of for everyone

729
01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:05.439
in the world. But yeah,
that's cool. I could just be their

730
01:09:05.479 --> 01:09:11.079
counselor. That's fine. I'm good
with that. Yeah, yeah, and

731
01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:15.359
it's any counselor, even if you
know that wasn't your perspective. You know,

732
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:19.119
our world view shouldn't be intruding into
session. You know, we set

733
01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:26.800
space for them, so regardless of
my badge, that space is saved for

734
01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:31.079
them and we need to remember that
regardless of our of our opinions, that

735
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:35.840
help. So if you believe right
it is, it is helpful to be

736
01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:40.560
supportive. And you know, it's
funny. I just I'm just going to

737
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:45.239
chime in. I have this need
to explain these things to people. It's

738
01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.640
it's very similar to for instance,
someone who's going through something in their life,

739
01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:54.840
they're going to go to the minister
of their church. You know,

740
01:09:54.920 --> 01:10:01.000
They're not necessarily going to go to
another church, another person, another reverend

741
01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:04.920
of someone else's church. So you
know, you could almost say comparatively,

742
01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:10.439
if someone's having an issue in their
life related to APS, it makes sense

743
01:10:10.520 --> 01:10:15.079
they would want to go to a
therapist that would understand and believe as opposed

744
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:20.840
to another religion like or another you
know, a person that doesn't. So

745
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:25.920
it just don't feel bad if you
need someone who's a believer to be your

746
01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:31.359
therapist. Yeah, I mean,
I think that helps for me. You

747
01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:36.159
know, even like spiritual based counselors
have you know, sometimes whether it's a

748
01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:44.560
Christian you know, backing or whatever
it is, So it helps and you

749
01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:49.640
know self, but you know,
it's I have to at least admit it,

750
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:55.399
you know, to an extent.
My experience is if I want people

751
01:10:55.640 --> 01:11:00.399
them to admit them to me to
or process them with me, the wrong

752
01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:04.920
work. Okay, Well, again, I want to thank you very much

753
01:11:05.239 --> 01:11:11.319
for coming and talking to me.
I greatly appreciate that you gave me your

754
01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:15.880
time, and that you have so
many interesting things to provide to people in

755
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:23.039
the community. Information, a future
website, all kinds of information about young

756
01:11:23.199 --> 01:11:29.079
you know, so much going on
support all of those wonderful things. You

757
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:30.840
know. I can't speak for the
entire community, but I can say I

758
01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:36.119
appreciate it a great deal. And
again, please remind people where they can

759
01:11:36.159 --> 01:11:46.239
find you on Twitter, the Beautiful
Underground at ghost archetype and that website.

760
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:51.439
Will I'd probably give it a two
to three month timeline, okay, but

761
01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:58.760
it would be a great Another resource
for researcher is like the UFO or it's

762
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:04.520
out there, the better we are
right. Absolutely, again, thank you

763
01:12:04.680 --> 01:12:09.319
very much, and I'm going to
go ahead and side off. This is

764
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:15.119
dev from devs Data Dojo, part
of the Calling All Beings podcasts. I

765
01:12:15.239 --> 01:12:21.479
can be found at Twitter at Study
of UAPs. Also I am on LinkedIn,

766
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:30.840
Facebook and I can be seen on
YouTube with calling all beings okay,

767
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:32.920
have a good night everybody, and
have a good day if it's a different

768
01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:40.119
time zone, Hi, everybody A
deb fie