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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is at triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It

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doesn't involve aliens at all. It
was completely silent. It comes right over

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our heads, Classic fly. He's
also really standing into clearing. He turned

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over to my father and held his
hand, and he looked in his eyes

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and said, we're not alone.
Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.

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During the show, feel free to
participate live in our chat room,

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00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,640
and don't forget to like us on
our very active Facebook page. Hello,

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and welcome to the show. I'm
Martin willis your host, and we have

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Alajandre Ross coming up with UFO updates
in just a second. Our guest tonight

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is a long time and I mean
long time researcher for many many years and

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decades, going all the way back
to the sixties. We have Ray Stanford

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is going to be on. He's
also going to be talking about an amazing

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discovery that he made at the NASA
Goddard Space Center, which I was fortunate

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enough to actually go down there and
see kind of not exactly this discovery,

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but other discoveries he made and yes, dinosaurs were walking around at Goddard Space

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Center, which I think is really
something pretty amazing. We're gonna be talking

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about that. He is now known
around the world for this. Actually as

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uh you know, he's an amazing
amateur paleontologist. He has. His discovery

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is beyond anything that people have found
as far as dinosaur tracks go, mammal

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tracks and dinosaurs tracks together. Anyway, we'll be talking about that the latter

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part of the show. First part
of the show, we're going to be

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discussing UFOs, his detection system that
he had many years ago, what he

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found, and then also about a
disks. You're not going to believe the

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way they look exactly like a flying
saucer. So we're going to have images

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people watching on YouTube, We're going
to have images come up on that so

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you can see what we're talking about. And I want to thank everyone that

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supports the show. We absolutely could
not do it without you. Thanks so

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much. Anyone can help out,
doesn't matter where you listen. All you

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have to do is check out podcast
ufo dot com all the informations there.

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We have occasional blogs. We have
one a couple of weeks old and so

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always welcome guest blogs if anyone's interested
in doing that. And I know I

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have a good feeling I know one
of the stories I'll Hondrow is going to

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be talking about, because never in
the time that I've been doing the show

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have I received so many emails about
a citing that came up. I hope

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he's giving a lot of email too. Alajndro, welcome to yees. Oh

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hey, hey, how's it going
good? Good? So I would guests

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that you're getting a lot of email
about this Irish flight commercial flight sighting all

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those planes that saw that sighting He
and Irish Commercial What No, I'm kidding.

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Yes, that is exactly the story
I was going to talk about,

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because it is all over the place
in big news and it sounds like a

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great case. So the site that
I feel has covered it very well,

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concisely and thoroughly and has always done
a great job as the drive the war

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Zone section written by Tyler rogue Away. So it's a great article. You

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can find links to this, especially
if you go to the open minds UFO

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news forum on Facebook. You'll be
able to see a lot of people talking

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about it and some of the information
but it's a really cool case like some

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of the other ones that the Drive
has posted, and you know, I

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should add this because this is important
to drive fields more or like it's okay

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even though there are a credible defense
website. Ever since the New York Times

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article talking about the d D having
a UFO investigation organization, they feel more

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able and like it's okay to write
about UFO stories. So they have been

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from an aviation aerospace sort of perspective
which is really interesting and thorough, and

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so in their article they talk about
these multiple witnesses, all pilots in Ireland

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who saw this object. It was
pre dawn on November ninth, so very

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recently, about forty five minutes before
the sunrise, multiple UFOs being seen.

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The IA, which is the Irish
Aviation Authority, said that following reports from

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a small number of aircraft on Friday, November ninth of unusual air activity,

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there was a report filed. This
report will be investigated under the normal confidential

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a current investigation process, so they
are not going to be sharing. Who

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knows if they'll show the results or
even sure they'll say something. But fortunately

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somehow the audio of many of these
pilots has become available so you can listen

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to that. I know they've got
it right here on the drive, but

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it's really interesting. So one plane
said that they weren't showing anything on the

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radar, but they saw something moving
extremely fast. It was described as a

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very bright light. They said it
rapidly. It flew alongside the left side

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seven eighty seven before it quote rapidly
veered to the north and then disappeared at

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very high speed. Another pilot of
a Atlantic Boeing seven forty seven said that

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there were multiple objects following the same
trajectory and that they were moving at extremely

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high speeds. Then the other pilot
kind of chimed into sound I'm glad it

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wasn't just me, And then another
one said that they also saw these objects

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and that they were moving very fastly. In fact, their quote was that

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they were moving the speed they were
moving was astronomical, that it was something

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like mocked two. So yeah,
very interesting sighting. Another really good one

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where pilots got involved again. They
said that there didn't seem to be any

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fear of collision or that they didn't
there was no aggressive maneuvering or behavior by

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these objects. Almost like they were
coming in either taking a look or letting

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themselves be seen, and then zooming
off at a very fast speed, kind

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of like what we saw in two
thousand and four in San Diego with the

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Nimits, the tictak UFOs, or
even in nineteen fifty two with Washington,

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DC, or in Chili and in
many other countries the same sort of kind

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of flying inch demonstration of this extreme
technology and speed cruising off at very fast

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rate. So yeah, great sighting. I'm wondering, you know, I

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mean, every pilot now probably has
their They're probably texting half the time because

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they have it on autopilot. I'm
surprised that are maybe they did, maybe

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someone try to snap a picture.
Did you hear anything about that or read

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anything about No, I've heard nothing
of any pictures being taken. And I

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mean, you know, I just
got off a long flight from Baltimore,

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and you know, it's really difficult
to take pictures of, especially a bright

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light off in the distance from the
ground, even if you're closer from an

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airplane. So pictures are really difficult
unless you have a great camera kind of

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like the one I'm using now.
It's set up and ready with a long

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lens, then it's going to be
really hard if it's not a professional.

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Now, infrared is something different,
but of course commercial airlines don't carry an

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infrared radar where they're looking for things
in the sky. So yeah, no

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information on that. And I did
want to add one more update. The

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Drive did reach out to the Irish
government for the Irish Defense Forces in particular

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for answers. They had a number
of questions but they got one simple response,

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which was the Defense Forces do not
disclose their operational procedures for operational security

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reasons. This incident is a matter
for the Irish Aviation Authority, so essentially

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they're not going to say anything and
they're going to leave it up to their

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IAA to conduct the investigation and who
knows if they'll have a response or not.

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Wow. Now and in a case
like this, I've just noticed that

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it seems like it's this has gone
viral when I don't think you know,

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you mentioned earlier that you know,
Pete that the guy from the war whatever

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it is, they're the one that
wrote the story the war zone on the

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war Zone, right, he felt
more comfortable writing about it since you know,

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the December sixteenth, you know story
in the New York Times, and

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I think that's I think that's having
an effect across support in this because the

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Washington Post, I mean all,
I can't get you to a special screening

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on Thursday. So just a couple
of days from now where you can watch

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the first couple episodes of the blue
Book project Project blue Book, but email

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Alejandro or contact at open Mind stat
TV and I can send you information on

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that. Wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, free popcorn and pop too.

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This is being put on by the
publishers they're doing. I'm going to be

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doing a panel during one of these
events, and others will at others.

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So I'm only able. I'm only
in contact with the people doing a Las

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Vegas and Phoenix one, so I
can get people into that one for free,

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and but keep an eye out for
other events like this going on.

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Yeah, I know. Sam Moronto
sent out a notice so cool. Yeah

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that if that's in the Chicago area. So that's going on, and he's

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fairly easy. I think he's fairly
easy to find out. I don't know

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if I think so. I think
he's on Facebook at least, so you

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could touch around Facebook. Excellent.
So we are we're running a little bit

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on time, but I want you
to talk about what you did last weekend

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if you have kind of us sure. Yeah. I was at alien Con.

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I guess to try to get through
quickly. We were selling stuff,

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so we had a UFO Congress booth
and I'm wearing the hat kind of because

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my hair is ms, but also
it's a cool hat, um, but

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right over my shoulder here. This
was a big hit. What we're selling

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at the table, This hovering UFO
that levitates this lamp that's also a Bluetooth

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speaker, and we've got those up
on the store now, but they're super

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cool. So besides that, I
had several talks and a panel with Richard

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dolan Um, Stephen Bassett, and
Jason McClellan, where we talked about disclosure

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and post disclosure. Mostly took a
lot of questions from the audience. The

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History Channel had a big presence there
promoting their television show, and you know,

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it was there was a lot of
people, not as many as Pasadena,

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but that's Pasadena was madness here.
There were a lot of people,

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a whole lot of people with pack
but still so it was a lot of

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fun. One of the highlights for
me was one of my talks was about

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Spielberg, and of course Jallen Heinek
had a big part of Close Encounters.

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He was the guy who you know, inspired Spielberg and gave him the case

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information. And I talked a lot
about Heineck because he's so important and I

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think he's so cool and a very
important person to talk about in that he

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went in as a skeptic, came
out a believer and really started civilian UFO

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investigations, any helped the Air Force
do investigations. But after my talk,

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this gentleman came up and introduced himself. It was Paul Heineck, Jallen Heineck's

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son. Yes, I was so
thrilled, and he was saying, thank

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you for all the kind things that
you said about my father. I'd love

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to sing in contact. And of
course I said, well would you mind

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coming on my podcast? And he
said yes. So finally I'm able to

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get to someone before you do.
And I will have Paul Heineck on the

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podcast soon. Isn't that great?
Does he look anything like his dad?

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Not really? Of course his dad
always had a beard and a pipe.

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But you know, he's got a
he had a jacket on a very professional,

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tall, slender guy, and I
looked him up and he's a professor,

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an associate professor at Pepperdine along with
a number of starting up companies.

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He's a very you know, a
successful businessman and so an impressive person.

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So that was the thrill of the
conference. Besides, I tell you more

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about this later since we're running on. We had a booth next to us

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that was selling meteorites, and you
can see online. I videotaped a piece

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of Mars, but they gave me
a little meteorite, so I'll show you

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guys that. Yeah, sometimes in
your watch or something. Did I hear

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about your something about your watch?
No, that was someone else's. That

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was these guys. The owner of
that company. He's an expert in this.

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He has a slice of Mars as
the face of his watch. Amazing,

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one of a kind item, probably
worth at least tens of thousands of

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dollars. A chunk of Mars that
I held was worth over forty thousand dollars.

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Now this is explained that because people
know it didn't come back from Mars.

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So this was a media write dead
landed right did come back? Right?

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So it's a meteorite. Yeah,
So that's essentially what they deal in

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our meteorites, and that's where this
comes from. Because some people are like,

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what do you mean somebody went to
Mars and brought it back. No,

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it's it's a meteorite. So that's
how we you know, Fortunately,

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and I don't believe there's a whole
lot of them, but chunks that have

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been dislodged from Mars, probably from
asteroid strikes and things like that, and

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even I think volcanic activity can push
objects into the atmosphere high enough work can

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escape the gravity of the planet and
then float around for probably hundreds of thousands,

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maybe millions of years before eventually landing
on our planet. And then through

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testing very similar to the type that
we talked about with Chris Cogswell, we're

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able to show in fact, you
know that it kind of demonstrates that one

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of the things I was thinking of
the criteria of proving something is from an

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et civilization, because that watch we
just talked about is technology. It is

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from space, but it's not a
technology that we're not aware of, so

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we know this is something that's human
built. So that third threshold would have

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to be met, which is that
you know, it's this space material being

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transformed into something used a technology we
don't know, but it's a demonstration how

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his watch meet two of those three
criteria and why it's so important that those

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00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,519
three criteria be met before we call
something, you know, at technology.

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Someone just asked in the chat room, did you recently meet with Robert Bigelow?

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I did not. I wish I
had, but I just wanted to

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clear that up. They're just wondering
if you had. And then another thing

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in the chat right, well,
go ahead, finished that. I was

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just gonna say that part might have
come from because I did go to a

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friends and family event where Jeremy Cortbell
showed us his movie that the Skinwalker movie

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very exciting. We'll have news up
tomorrow or two about his new movie.

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But we talked about how there were
a lot of people there and we couldn't

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disclose all the people there, so
people might have assumed Bigelow there was there,

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but unfortunately he was not. Oh
okay, And someone also wrote on

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there the story that you were discussing
earlier about the you know UFO. They're

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00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:07,360
saying that an Irish astronomer claims that
it was a meteor, and I wondered

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if you heard anything about that,
and if there was any validity or possible

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00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:17,159
validity to that. I haven't heard
a bit about that, but um,

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you know a lot of people are
pointing out that what was described does not

205
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seem to fit what this person was
saying. However, you know, depending

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on angles, a meteor I can
look strange. I mean, especially in

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a plane if it's running somewhat parallel
to you, which happens at times because

208
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they're up in the air. It's
I guess it's not something we can rule

209
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out yet, But thus far I've
seen a lot of people saying it's not

210
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fitting all of the check marks of
what was witness But would a lot more

211
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has to go into it. Yeah. Would you see a meteor during the

212
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day, I mean, I guess
it's possible if it's bright enough. Yeah,

213
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I think you can. You can
see it in Italy, but trail

214
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because you know it's on fire and
it's cruising along. Typically these things,

215
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when they're falling apart, there will
be pieces of it that will flare,

216
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So the brightness you'll see as various
different flares of different I think you witnessed

217
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,559
something like that where it's kind of
more of a flickering where it gets super

218
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,960
bright than it gets less brightened until
it dims completely out as those pieces at

219
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:29,119
luminess or make the brightness burn off. Another thing, it should be earth

220
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bound two, I mean, not
like a level path. Well, it

221
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should be earth bound. But when
you're in the air, and some of

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these things can come in at a
very slight angle where it will look and

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if you're on a plane, you
know it's difficult. The angles get very

224
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strange. So it's possible something that
is actually coming down looks level and there

225
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have been and I think we can
probably find them planes getting pictures of these

226
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,599
things looking like their level to them, but they actually are, you know,

227
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being pulled him by the gravity.
Interesting. Well, we went a

228
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little long, Sorry about that.
So anyway, thanks, thanks so much.

229
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,559
Yeah, thank you, and we'll
be talking next week. All right,

230
00:18:10,599 --> 00:18:12,440
all right, talk, all right, take care, all right.

231
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,640
I apologize for going a little bit
long. That was really interesting. I

232
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:22,240
wanted to talk about that possible meteorum
part of that. So Ray Stanford,

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00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,559
our guest, he's been on a
number of times. I've visited him a

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00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,960
number of years ago, did a
show down there. I saw some amazing

235
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things. I consider Ray a good
friend and we are in touch all the

236
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,319
time and it's my pleasure to have
him on. Ray Welcome to the show.

237
00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:41,960
Oh great to be here, Morton. Yeah, it's been it's been

238
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,440
a little while since you've been on. I think it's been a few years.

239
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,759
I mean, you got involved in
this dinosaur tracking that just kind of

240
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:56,599
consumed you completely, well at a
certainly time consuming when you're first you make

241
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a discovery and it takes months to
realize everything is there, and then you

242
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,000
have to take you've a longer time
writing it up in a careful way for

243
00:19:04,079 --> 00:19:07,920
a scientific paper. Yeah, and
you did all that, and we will

244
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talk more about that in the second
part of the show or the last the

245
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last part of the show. But
I just just wanted to say that's the

246
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,079
reason you haven't been on in a
couple of years. You've and you know,

247
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,279
you've been on National Geographic has been
to your house. All kinds of

248
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,119
things have happened, You've spoken at
Guarded Space Center and all that. All

249
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:36,200
fascinating, all fascinating things. But
we were going to talk when I visited

250
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,839
you, I couldn't believe the collection
you had, and some of the the

251
00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:49,039
the discs that you had stone discs
that look exactly like a flying saucer that

252
00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:52,799
are from ancient mounds. So I'd
like to talk a little bit about that.

253
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,559
But before we get into that subject, in particular for the person that

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00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:02,759
the first time hearing you on this
show, we do have a lot of

255
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:07,200
new listeners, and we're also over
on KGr A Radio with some new listeners.

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I'd like for you to fill them
in on your background and what got

257
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you fascinated in the topic to begin
with, Well, it's hard to say

258
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what got me fascinated, Just to
mention of something that people can't explain,

259
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,319
flying around and doing strange things.
I can't get anybody that is any way

260
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analytical, even as a child as
I was in nineteen forty seven, I

261
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guess I was nine years old and
I couldn't stay away from it. It

262
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:36,599
just fascinates me. I don't know
what got into me. I skinny,

263
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:40,759
little nine year old kid jumped off
of a swing in the grade school yard

264
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:42,880
and went over to the principal's wife
and said, missus Shelton, when I

265
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,240
grow up, I'm going to try
to find out what the flying saucers are,

266
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and when I do, I'm going
to tell the whole world. So

267
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,599
she stomped off like a madman who
just talked to her, or a mad

268
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:59,720
kid, And I don't know,
it catches an interest, and I just

269
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,720
I did though after well, in
my teens, as teens sometimes are impulsive,

270
00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:10,079
I got taken in by the hoaxes
of Georgia Damski and the the contact

271
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:15,279
he crowd, but and interpreted some
wonderful, well documented, well witnessed sightings

272
00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:19,279
that we had in a in a
vein that I considered to be now subjective,

273
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I'm made up. There's a lot
of strange things that happened to you

274
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if you have a close encounter,
at least in my experience, and sometimes

275
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when you're in experience and highly excitable
as a teenager, you can kind of

276
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,839
misinterpret it. I mean, we
felt like somehow they were reading our minds

277
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,039
and causing us to show up and
see these things. And I don't any

278
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:45,480
longer think that's the case. I
think I have better explanations part, but

279
00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:52,160
it got after I wised up to
a Damski and exposed the evidence I had

280
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,200
that that his photographs and stories were
hopxesn't exposed. Daniel wa another contact team,

281
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,720
I decided the way to go,
the only way to go, was

282
00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:06,920
to try to use cameras and electronic
instruments to get some kind of data that

283
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:12,400
would be meaningful to mainstream science,
that would speak to physicists and real hard

284
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,640
data for hard scientists. Will say, and it took me a long time

285
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,079
to arrange. Finally the funding far
that, But by nineteen the early seventies,

286
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:30,640
I began to working with a nonprofit
corporation bring in contributions that eventually built

287
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:37,440
a system of tracking these things optically
electronically. It was a total of equipment

288
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,000
facilities back then it was about somewhat
over two million dollars. Now that would

289
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,759
be, of course the order.
I guess it's thirty or forty million dollars.

290
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:51,839
But we succeeded in using this equipment
in the field. The first time

291
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:53,880
he really got a great success was
when he had a tip from a government

292
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,759
scientist the White Sands that they were
being plagued, and we snooped around there

293
00:22:57,759 --> 00:23:02,519
on the outskirts of White But I
don't want to get into that too much

294
00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:07,359
because I'd like to talk about something
else that surprised me related to UFOs,

295
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,599
but but ancient. And I guess
you know what I'm talking about this point,

296
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,880
Martin. Yeah. Yeah, just
to let you know, Ray,

297
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,200
we got about a couple of minutes
here before we go into our first break,

298
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,160
so I may have to interrupt you
if if it comes to that.

299
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But yes, I saw your collection
at your house and it's fascinating, and

300
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,359
yeah, I'd like for you to
talk about that, okay. Well,

301
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,720
I had gotten interested in Indian artifacts
back when my dad worked in an oil

302
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:40,759
field and was bringing home Indian mariads, and I began to study them,

303
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:44,880
become fascinated, and eventually I began
to collect other types of Indian artifacts.

304
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:51,880
Well. Then back in the nineteen
eighties, the letter part of the nineteen

305
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,880
eighties, I had gone to several
Indian artifact auctions and see if the catalog

306
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:03,599
from an auction called the Old Barn
Auction and Philly Ohio and uh there was

307
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,599
a picture of a thing that looked
just like a domed disc with spots around

308
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:14,680
his dome and h and flange.
And I said, oh, my gosh.

309
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:21,119
And I looked at the text Malone, he said him Indian hematite disc

310
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,400
and it said that it had an
exclamation mark. This looks like a UFO.

311
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,960
So I called the owner of the
auction house and I said, look,

312
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,799
I want to buy that. He
said, I can't sell it to

313
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:36,160
you. It's already in the catalog. And this was a hard copy catalog.

314
00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:40,319
It was back in the days of
internet auctions. And he said,

315
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,119
but you know, he said,
these came out of a collection from back

316
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,799
the turn of the nineteenth and the
early part of the twenty century. Uh

317
00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:55,720
an old guy back in uh in
Hancock County, Illinois, I had collected

318
00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:59,400
a bunch of Indian artifacts and when
he died, his family stored these things.

319
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,319
And recently they decided, well,
maybe these are worth something, and

320
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,960
they brought them into him and he
said it was astonishing. Here was two

321
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:11,880
disks, but just like they were
flying saucers, and they've been dug up

322
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,920
way back there before we ever heard
of Kenneth Arnold and his siding descriptions of

323
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,319
disc by other people. And so
what I did, He said that,

324
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,440
you know, there's one in the
catalog. I've got one year on my

325
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:27,799
desk, and he said, it
astonishes people come in. People come in

326
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:32,000
and accuse me of being some kind
of a UFO nut having this model of

327
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,519
a UFO in my desk, and
I explained to him, wait, I

328
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,200
wasn't responseil for that, and Indian
made it maybe two thousand years ago,

329
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,680
and so I said, look,
I want to buy that one, and

330
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:45,480
I did, and eventually I also
bought from the guy that got the other

331
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,359
one at auction, I got another
one and the one we were seeing on

332
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,119
the screen now, actually I was
the last one of the most disc like

333
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:59,680
type that I got, and that's
from Illinois, but from further to the

334
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,960
south western part of the state of
Illinois. And I don't know if the

335
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,720
Mahadric called the actual size of it, but it's between three and four inches

336
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,359
in diameter, and it looks the
part. And I have no explanation of

337
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:18,400
what they were trying to represent unless
we make the presumption that an Indian not

338
00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:21,279
having a camera, saw something that
impressed him a lot, and he said,

339
00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:22,640
I'll make it out of stone and
show my buddies what I saw.

340
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,480
But that we don't know. Here's
here's two more, three more. Actually

341
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,000
these were the early ones that the
two you have top and bottom on the

342
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:37,200
left, and the blue green and
the red. Now those were the ones

343
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:41,119
from from over in western Illinois,
and you can see the size them and

344
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,839
everything there. And one of them
was the one that was in the auction.

345
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:45,960
It was the one that I bought, and they haven't old. One

346
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,920
of them has the old sticker down
the bottom right. You see you can't

347
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,640
read it there, but it says
Piedric Collection and Hancock County, Illinois,

348
00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:57,640
and that was the old collection that
it was in. The one on the

349
00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:03,480
right is even more romatic and larger, and it was found a little further

350
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,759
east on the Illinois River. And
we go to the next slide, we

351
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,279
might be able to to see.
I don't know if you can get that

352
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:17,960
up, but that was found while
they were clearing trees in nineteen twenty one

353
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:22,240
spring on the east bank of the
Illinois River in Havana, Illinois. At

354
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,880
the time, there was a rise
there there. You see on the left

355
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,720
of where it was the red line
that goes and then down it shows Havannah

356
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,720
and it points up to it.
And this thing was It was found when

357
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,319
they were digging up trees and the
roots pulled this thing up. But they

358
00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:41,920
didn't realize there was a mound there. At that time, the mound there

359
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,640
was only about twelve feet high,
but it's about an acre in size,

360
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:52,279
and it's it's now been of course, both carbon dated about two thousand years

361
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,400
old plus or minus two hundred and
thirty maybe or so on either side of

362
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:02,039
two thousand years ago. And interestingly, also that same site they found twenty

363
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:07,359
two beads made out of nickel iron
meteorite. Two of them are locally here

364
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:14,000
in the in the Smithsonian. And
I mean, this is enough to just

365
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:18,880
bog on my mind. I mean
I realized that these have an excellent collection

366
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,519
background. I have the whole collection
background that the disc number three up there

367
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:26,640
in the upper right of who owned
it across time. And I just mentioned

368
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,880
that the dealer new reminders and UFOs
and he was interested in his wife,

369
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:37,240
and I believe he daught at Wins
because they had seen something remarkable in their

370
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,920
backyard at close range, about twenty
feet in diameter. And he said,

371
00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:44,160
I said, have you ever come
across another one of these things? He

372
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,039
said, well, I know the
old guy that has one, but he

373
00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:48,559
didn't want to part with it.
Well, they took him oh at least

374
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:52,920
two, three, maybe four years
to talk him into selling it, but

375
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,880
finally he sold it, and I
bought it from the Delian Artifacts with the

376
00:28:57,119 --> 00:29:02,359
very good background information. And so
I've just been thrilled to have these.

377
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:04,759
And there was the one more that
we showed first in the introductor slide there

378
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:10,240
that that makes four of the ones
that look just like what the world today

379
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:14,799
thinks of as the Flying Saucer UFO. I guess in this break we have

380
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,200
just three minutes that goes really fast. And I blabbed a little too much.

381
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:25,200
I wanted to know if you can
tell the listening audience how you basically

382
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:30,039
ended up so close to Goddard Space
Center. Well, I went through a

383
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:37,279
divorce my former marriage and came up
here and ultimately married a wonderful lady named

384
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:42,440
Sheila, and she was working at
Goddard Space Flight Center. Eventually she became

385
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:52,440
the contracting ulficer of technical representative over
the entire equipment and facilities servicing of the

386
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:57,400
last three huple of space telescope servicing
missions. And she had a big commendation

387
00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:03,440
from the government for that work.
And she was very interested had been interested

388
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,119
in UFOs for years and any we've
been we've been married about thirty two,

389
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,920
I guess years now, and that
brought me because we were only three miles

390
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,559
from Gadder Space Flight Center, and
so I was frequently over there. And

391
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,559
one day I was there, I
picked her up for lunch and dropped her

392
00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:21,559
back off and was passing through a
parking lot and I saw a rock sticking

393
00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:25,480
out of the grass, and and
the story is history now that I went

394
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,680
over there and there was the beginning
of what has been declared to be the

395
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,440
most important discovery of showing interaction of
mammals and dinosaurs. It's it's ever been

396
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,920
found, and it was right there
at Gadder Space Flight Center. I can't

397
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,519
believe. Well, first of all, just say, we'll get into that

398
00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:41,960
the second part of the show more. And well, I actually want you

399
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,119
to bring that up again. I
don't understand how anyone would notice the rock

400
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,720
sticking up in the grass, first
of all. And then second of all,

401
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,200
you know they all the excavation they
did there, with all the buildings

402
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,119
you showed me around there when when
I visited, and you know, all

403
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:04,279
the buildings there, all the parking
lots, there's probably a lot more there

404
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:11,680
that was either destroyed or covered over. But it's just was this near I'm

405
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:17,319
thinking near a possibly an ancient river
bed or something. How No, it

406
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,680
was in a deltaic floodplain about one
hundred and ten million years ago that frequently

407
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,000
flooded, and in fact, we've
found a lot of evidence. I have

408
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:33,480
found two the fossils of baby notice
ours that apparently drowned and probably one of

409
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,759
these floods there were. We know
they're instar because so many baby tracks,

410
00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:41,559
the eggs disintegrape because of the high
acid in this rather swampy environment. But

411
00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:48,240
it was a wonderful place for life
if you didn't get drowned in a flood,

412
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:51,839
if you were a dinosaur or a
mammo back in that time. So

413
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,400
yeah, we'll talk about that in
the second part of the show more.

414
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:59,039
But also I know you had a
sighting right there. We can talk at

415
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:01,079
Gardard or right near Dard. I
remember you're telling me you were driving over

416
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:05,519
that way. So we'll we'll be
getting back to the show here in just

417
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:07,559
a second. Here, all right, welcome back. My guest is Ray

418
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:14,279
Stanford. And during the break we
spoke a little bit about the area that

419
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,200
it lives in. We're gonna be
talking more about that later, but we

420
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:22,359
when we were wrapping up, we're
ready. I still want to talk more

421
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:30,279
about these disks and what the possible
use was for them. But the question

422
00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:36,519
on that ray have they found any
of these in other areas or is it

423
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:42,720
only in this particular area. The
disc that look like what we think is

424
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:49,160
the UFO looks like they have been
found only in uh in Havana, Illinois,

425
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:55,119
and in Hancock County, Illinois out
of west of there, and there's

426
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,759
one down to the south lest of
they're the first one that we showed earlier.

427
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,519
But if we can go in and
look at some of the picture,

428
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,440
He's plaint a little more about them. But it that it looks like here's

429
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,519
the hot pots. When I found
these things, I said, I wonder

430
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:16,720
if these were the first things that
that we that they made and they and

431
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,240
what I found out is I didn't
have a confirmation with time. I thought,

432
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:23,960
maybe you know the Indians that they
feel like if you make an effigy

433
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:27,920
of something, it takes on to
some extent. Many of them feel the

434
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,559
properties such as the Katina dolls out
west months of Hope. But if you

435
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:35,720
look at this picture on the left, you see these distances become more and

436
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:39,799
more or less like we typically think
of a UFO, and more and more

437
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:45,319
practical around it. Edges Well,
I believed I had pothicized that the original

438
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:50,200
ones, which would have been view
of course, were in response to observation

439
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:53,559
or at least visual, if not
intellectual, contact with the objects and or

440
00:33:53,680 --> 00:34:00,200
their occupants, and that it became
something that they transferred into a game,

441
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,519
even as the minds begin to have
a ball game that they say is somehow

442
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:07,320
related to the motion of planets.
I'm not sure that if that's the white

443
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:13,440
man's interpretation or really the mind interpretation. But in this case I had no

444
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,280
evidence that these were the old is. But as it happened, years later,

445
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,960
after I had gotten these optics,
there came out of scientific publication with

446
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:27,599
information on the carbon dating of the
one there you see on the left,

447
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,559
and it would place it right around
two thousand either plus or minus two thousand

448
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:38,119
years before the present time. But
as we get closer to the present time,

449
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,920
they got these more rounded ages.
Well, the Indians had a game.

450
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,639
When the white man came, they
looked the disc there reason it looked

451
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:46,280
more like the one on the far
right. In fact, it was at

452
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,320
that time and they had a game
that they called chunky, and you could

453
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:57,599
you would roll a disk and throw
a sphere that looked for all the world

454
00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:02,480
like a mothership, and if they
came close to each other, that gave

455
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:06,000
points to the person. I guess
they did the throwing and the rolling of

456
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:09,800
the disk. And the interesting thing
is that the Indians were while about this.

457
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,880
The white men didn't like it.
They went for a different kind of

458
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,119
Indian game. But the Indians were
big on betting on this. They bet

459
00:35:17,639 --> 00:35:22,480
none of their low and call they
sometimes who bet their wives, it was

460
00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:28,480
said, And it was probably training
them, though intuitively, to by judging

461
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:31,519
the speed of the disk and throwing
the what you know, let's look at

462
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:35,639
this today. In the reports of
UFOs, we hear of these long,

463
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:42,039
very narrow cigar stretched out cigar type
things that we might call the mothership in

464
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:46,239
our interpretation. And you've got the
disc that supposedly go to and from them.

465
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,079
Well, in this game, you've
got a thing to shape like the

466
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:52,199
mother's ship, and you've got the
disc that they were rolling on the ground,

467
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:58,320
and the points the greater parts were
game by the closer that they stopped

468
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,880
to one another. Both latterly and
distantly, so it could be taken as

469
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:09,239
a UFO mothership docking kind of game
they called chunky, and we can't prove

470
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:15,239
that, but it's an hypothesis that
tends to be confirmed in my mind at

471
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,760
least a little bit by the fact
that determinous age the fourth the two thousand

472
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,719
year old age of the ones that
looked most like UFOs, and as you

473
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,639
get more and more towards the White
Man's coming, they change. Here's a

474
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,679
map that you see over on the
left where disc one and two were found.

475
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,039
Those stood above, and then the
four right corner Disc three. It's

476
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:38,199
interesting to write up there beyond it
is the Glassford impact structor. That's where

477
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:44,239
a piece of an asteroid hit back
along long time ago before the Indian's time.

478
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:49,239
But I begin to ask myself,
why would these UFOs have been spending

479
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,679
a lot of time. I don't
have any idea. Maybe they were staying

480
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:55,280
to people, but maybe they were
also looking at the impact history. If

481
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,199
we can move on to the next
slide, there's I don't know, you

482
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:06,519
have the next slide that can come
up conveniently, but it's it's quite interesting

483
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:09,679
when you look at that area of
the country that has the greatest concentration of

484
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,800
impact structures. There we see in
the map at the lower left, inside

485
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,440
the green circle, that's the area
where these kinds of disc are found.

486
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,559
And then if we go into the
next slide, I'll compare it to something

487
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:28,920
else that might be another reason why
the UFOs would be studying that area.

488
00:37:29,639 --> 00:37:31,480
I'm not sure how it is to
get back to me into the next slide,

489
00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:36,840
but what it shows is, okay, it up or right. This

490
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,960
is a new Madrid fault. That's
an earthquake causing fault, and the most

491
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,760
intense areas in the red, but
it goes all the way over into the

492
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,159
yellow areas and it Now, let's
go one more slide and compare that to

493
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,400
the area where most of the hematite
disc and other hematite objects were made by

494
00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:00,840
the Indians. And it's quite fascinating
if we can get over there. I

495
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,679
realize that there seemed to be some
problem navigating there. We go. No,

496
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:07,559
it's not rageous to let you know. There's a thirty second delay on

497
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:10,039
YouTube. Okay, thirty seconds,
Okay, doing it in immediately, but

498
00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:14,559
it takes thirty seconds. Okay,
good, Okay, I got it,

499
00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:19,320
And Anyway, this thing you see
in white and red that was that was

500
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,800
published years ago in a book by
Warren K. Moorehead called Hematite Implements of

501
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:29,519
the United States. Isn't it fascinating
how the whole pattern, both the white

502
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:32,000
one with the line around it and
the red one echo the New Madrid fault

503
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,119
effects. Well, that is easy
perhaps to understand geologically, because if you're

504
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:42,000
having faulting in that area, you're
also altering the course of not only surface

505
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:49,079
waters but underground waters. And hematite
is usually is often formed in aquatic situation

506
00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:53,400
where the minimals are carried and the
iron oxide grows in various crystalline forms,

507
00:38:53,800 --> 00:39:00,119
several different colors depending on the crystalline
form, but so it's not mysterious that

508
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:04,519
they take on the same form.
But keep in mind that this could be

509
00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,920
an area that was of interest because
this is a major earthquake fault is not

510
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:12,079
compared to the sign area south west, but it's said that there have been

511
00:39:12,119 --> 00:39:15,320
felt earthquakes in this even over here
in the west in DC Maryland area some

512
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:24,280
time ago. So let's move on
now, and I will I'm gonna have

513
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,920
to see the next slide version.
Remember coming us in but it's coming up.

514
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,039
I understand. And here we go. Now this one was from the

515
00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:38,920
Ford Action culture and it's small.
It's only one point six three inches in

516
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:44,760
or five whatever that says in diameter. But it almost looks like a disc

517
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,679
with construction panels. And by the
way, don't let anybody fool you.

518
00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:52,880
You'll hear these stories, fictional stories
that oh man, these disks. When

519
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,039
you see them they have no construction
panel or nothing. Well, you're seeing

520
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:59,639
them plasma covered, as I've learned
in my study with instruments. Yeah,

521
00:39:59,639 --> 00:40:01,880
you want to see the panels,
but if the plasma is off, you

522
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:08,280
will see panels. I knew an
Indian that ran the Taos Indian Horse Ranch

523
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,280
in Taos, New Mexico, and
his wife, and he was telling me

524
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,760
about how one Indian summer he took
a group of tourists up by horseback up

525
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,480
into near the area of their sacred
mountain there and a whole group, in

526
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,639
broad daylight of disk passed home.
He said, ray, if I'd had

527
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,760
a rock, if I hadn't the
guts to do it, I could have

528
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,440
hit them with a rock. They
passed so close to us, And he

529
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:39,199
said, you could actually see panels
that look like units of construction that they

530
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:44,440
were made of. So anyway,
let's take a look at this and maybe

531
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,760
that's the stretch of the imagnation that
this represents a UFO, But when we

532
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,719
go to the next slide, it
may not be such a stretch of imagination.

533
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,159
We can get some curtains here.
Just one thing, we have to

534
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:59,199
make sure that we kind of explain
things because a lot of people are listening

535
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,719
to the show. The majority of
the people listening to the show YouTube's.

536
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:07,280
It's a small small audience, so
we have to kind of explain what I

537
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:13,079
mean. It's a great visual and
just to let the listener know on podcasts

538
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:20,519
UFO that listens to the podcast or
over at KGr A Radio and the dark

539
00:41:20,559 --> 00:41:25,440
Matter Digital Network, the radio stations
at play this show that I will get

540
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:30,000
something up on my website in the
show notes if you want to take a

541
00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:35,000
look over there at podcasts. Well, I invite people to read what I've

542
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,320
written on the slides here, and
there's nothing really complicated to understand. This

543
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,599
is a disk that's quite small too, in an eight inch in diameter A

544
00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:49,719
found years ago and it was found
in southern Ohio in the Forward ancient culture

545
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,119
area, and it sure looks like
ladders. The interesting thing to me is,

546
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:57,360
having studied the physics of these objects, is that when you have a

547
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,199
dipolar magnetic feeling, when we have
actual films, this hythm of data due

548
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:07,079
to plasma being circulating, the magnetic
field going gas circulating. If you wanted

549
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:08,639
to go in and the thing you're
still hovering above the ground by the use

550
00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:13,960
of this energy, you'd want to
go in the place of minimal magnetic strength

551
00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:17,280
or zero magnetic strength. You'd want
to go in through the center like that,

552
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:22,079
and you'd also want to open your
landing gear otherwise it would cause some

553
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:25,760
problems that won't get into But this
certainly looks like somebody might be illustrating the

554
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:31,519
way they left and went into a
disk. We can't prove it, but

555
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:37,119
I can't think of any other explanation. And keep in mind that this was

556
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:39,840
the Ford Ancient culture. People might
say, well, that wasn't a kiva,

557
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:45,360
an underground round ceremonial structure that they
have on Arizonia, Mexico. The

558
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:50,440
problem with that hypothesis is that Kiva's
did not exist in that part of the

559
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:58,960
world. In Ohio and northwestern Kentucky
and a few adjacent areas. They simply

560
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,480
did not exist. Excavation has ever
turned up any evidence that it was a

561
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:07,199
Kiva culture or that Kiva's existed,
So I think we can dismiss the idea

562
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,599
that it represents that. But it
sure looks like the way somebody might be.

563
00:43:10,679 --> 00:43:14,760
And I had this for several years, and just the other day I

564
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,519
came across another disc with the ladders, and we can take a look at

565
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:22,000
that when we get over there.
It was made of a different material.

566
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,599
This is a sandstone, compact sciendstone, but the other one is a semi

567
00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:32,039
translucent kind of a greenish stone.
That interesting. It has a preasable magnetic

568
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:37,280
component to it. Here it is, and if you'll look there, going

569
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,400
down toward four o'clock, it's a
narrow looking ladder, but look at the

570
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:44,320
one on the left. It looked
much brighter, as if the person drawing

571
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,760
those in there wanted to show perspective. Well, what that would suggest is

572
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,480
he's saying, well, it was
really not right there at us, It

573
00:43:50,559 --> 00:43:53,199
was up above us. So the
ladder looks big close up and get smaller

574
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,880
with distance. I'm not saying that's
what it was, but that's my interpretation

575
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,800
of it. Must look at another
picture that I just shot one another angle

576
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:07,079
on it so that you can see
the Some people might see these a little

577
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:13,039
better in the next slide. But
I'm saying actually that this is magnetic too.

578
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,960
Yeah, it's magnetic, not strongly
magnetic, but it's very appreciably magnetic.

579
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,079
It surprised me, and let me
mention that all those beautiful disc or

580
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:22,639
is saying made of hematite, they
must have some magnetite in them, because

581
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,360
they are very appreciably magnetic, some
of them stronger than others, which is

582
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,400
interesting. But here again we see
these ladders going into the central place,

583
00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:34,599
which, by the way, I
could do some of it. To me,

584
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,159
the most credible UFO cases where occupants
were seen ce threes is Honeywood.

585
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:45,880
Is that closing colors of the third
kind describe occupants going in and out of

586
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,360
the middle of the craft. In
one case they are very credible, with

587
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:52,880
some children in. I think it
was in France. The occupants, these

588
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:58,800
small itcumants floated up in the air
and went down into the middle center of

589
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,400
the auditors, which will be the
top of a magnetic van. If you

590
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,800
want to presume, based on the
evidence that I've recorded, that there is

591
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:10,239
a two pole magnetic field around this
object that is moving plasma for atmospheric action

592
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:15,639
and support. Wow. Yeah interesting. So again, just to let the

593
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,480
listener know that these images, I'm
going to try to figure out how this

594
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:25,880
is actually what is it called a
slide presentation PowerPoint. I'm going to try

595
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,079
to figure out how to get this
up on my website so everybody can enjoy

596
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:35,000
these and takenly, great, there's
so interesting. Ray, how many when

597
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,840
I was at your house, I
mean it was looking all around at your

598
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:43,920
dinosaur tracks everywhere, but you were
able to amass a good collection of these.

599
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,800
Well, there are only four of
the ones that look most like this,

600
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:52,079
and then you get the gradients such
as I showed in that time frame

601
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:53,639
thing. Well, I god,
I didn't know show nearly all of them,

602
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:59,400
but I collected. Of course,
these dishapelines are very rare. I

603
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:05,079
only know of two genuine ones of
that that are left out that I like

604
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:10,519
to get into my as I call
it, my Hemitie ufl Anger and the

605
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:15,599
rest of them are transitional toward the
more practical aspects of the game, which

606
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:24,639
I take as being a Ufo mothership
symbolically manifested darking game from the Indians seeing

607
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:30,719
these things go up to an elongated
thing in the sky, and otherwise it's

608
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,760
a very very strange game to figure
why somebody would ever come up with such

609
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,800
a thing that, in fact is
so odd that it had no appeal to

610
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,920
the white man at all. But
here's here's some of them on the table

611
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:45,880
the u and you see the one
there with the ladders. You can compare

612
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:51,079
the size to the two brown ones
with the little odd figure, which is

613
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:54,360
actually from the Changkai culture of Peru. Those are the ones from western Illinois.

614
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:58,440
The beautiful one on the left of
dark brown one. Uh. That

615
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,800
one is from a central there on
the Illinois River at Havannah on the east

616
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,679
side, found in nineteen twenty one. I go back and say that those

617
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:08,679
two bound ones were found either in
the latter part of the nineteenth century or

618
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:15,559
the very first part before Piedre died. Of the twentieth century. You can

619
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:20,079
see different sizes of the desk,
and you'll notice around some of these have

620
00:47:20,199 --> 00:47:23,039
much rounder edges. And there's one
down there at the four o'clock position that

621
00:47:23,199 --> 00:47:28,280
is actually cone shape that does have
a convex bottom. It's a very high,

622
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,000
great hard hemitide, very dense hemitide. And believe or not, there's

623
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,079
been a UFO film by some physicists
that I think we're going to see in

624
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:38,400
a bit here that was shaped just
like that. It was a movie film,

625
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:44,079
sixteen millimeire movie film that was taken
by two physicists at Oaki's National Laboratory

626
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:46,480
back I think in the sixties or
early seventies. I could get to date.

627
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,119
Wow, so we can move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

628
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:54,679
we're taking a break in just about
two minutes or so, just to let

629
00:47:54,760 --> 00:48:00,239
you know. And during the two
minutes, the people on YouTube are going

630
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,920
to get a video that we're going
to be showing of your exploration down in

631
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:08,760
uh um at Goddard that's coming up
in a little bit, so uh and

632
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,840
we just have about about a minute
and a half before we go to break.

633
00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:20,159
So um, did you have you
actually seen any of these like in

634
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,320
a museum or any you know,
any any other type of collections. Well,

635
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,760
yes, oh the uh Now,
of course there's a collection he's came

636
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,840
out of and and but there are
there are people who have disc none of

637
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,760
them. I don't know well,
I only know of two other sources that

638
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,440
have the UFO like ones. One
of them is now owned by a farmer

639
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,920
that is about ninety years old,
and he got it from another elderly farmer

640
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,679
out in Illinois. And I'm waiting
to get it because it is a it

641
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,000
is a spectacor disc too, but
it was also dug up just a long

642
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:58,559
long time ago. And but these
are the few the This is where the

643
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,559
disc thing started out, and I
think the idea of the game, but

644
00:49:01,679 --> 00:49:06,880
the game became contagious, just like
soccer has taken over the US in recent

645
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:12,800
years. The verse, there were
the Hope Wells and then the Mississippians took

646
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,800
it up and Kahokia down there that
has the biggest structure by Indians in North

647
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:23,239
America, their biggest mound there.
They took up this game big time.

648
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:28,599
They had the whole Kahokia side had
a big, huge central field for playing

649
00:49:28,639 --> 00:49:34,639
this game of Chunky. And as
it turns out, some anthropologists have theorized

650
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:40,519
that in fact, this caused the
spread of the ki Kahokeo Empire because they

651
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,320
got people involved with the game.
Man As they became involved in the game

652
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,199
and got to know each other,
they took on board the traits and the

653
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:52,559
culture, and thus the empire spread. We don't know but that it makes

654
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:57,159
pretty good reasoning to me. What
we do know is that chunk this game

655
00:49:57,199 --> 00:50:00,880
became an obsession. How about that? Okay, so we're ready to go

656
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,960
to break um. All right,
We're on with Ray Stanford and we'll be

657
00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:13,280
right back right after these messages.
So do you think would you consider someone

658
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,920
was saying that you probably have one
of the best collections outside of a museum

659
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:22,920
of these chukka whatever they are stones, would you say that's possible? Well,

660
00:50:23,039 --> 00:50:25,800
not of the discs totally. There's
somebody have more of the disc but

661
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,920
I have I have most of the
UFO like ones. There are, as

662
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,679
I said, there's two that a
note for sure that I've that I've seen

663
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,679
one of my head in my hand
that are out there that I haven't been

664
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:42,039
able to acquire yet. But you
know these were the like the first photo

665
00:50:42,159 --> 00:50:45,320
somebody got at the UFO, this
is the Indians photo. Who might say,

666
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:50,360
I think if I'm interpreting it correctly, of what she or he observed

667
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:55,480
and then laboriously made imagine making this
out of himatite which has a tremendous hardness.

668
00:50:55,679 --> 00:51:00,599
Just to work with it is the
challenge. Yeah, they did they

669
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:06,400
make any stone tools out of that? Yes, there are. There are

670
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,079
quite a few little cells used in
splitting wood that they made out of it,

671
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,519
and there are also some other fancier
objects that are made out of hematite.

672
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:19,880
It was beloved material, but you
don't see as many as the hematite

673
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,199
collectors would like to see because it
was just hard to work with. And

674
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:28,719
there are various grades of hematite.
And the Indians liked hematite so much that

675
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,320
they what they found out something that
most people don't know. But they would

676
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,920
take lamanite, which is a hydrated
iron oxide, which hematite is, and

677
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,480
they would fire it and make it
hard on the outside, lose its water

678
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,599
and it would make it hard and
hematite on the outside. But I have

679
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:47,440
objects that show Brogan opened that the
lamanite that they discovered this process that you

680
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:52,880
could dehydrate the lamanite and turn it
in the hematite. So you would have

681
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,800
to give the Indiane some credit for
a little bit of petrochemistry there were college.

682
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,679
All right, welcome back. My
guest is Ray Stanford, and we've

683
00:52:00,679 --> 00:52:06,000
been talking ancient artifacts that sure,
look a heck of a lot, like

684
00:52:07,039 --> 00:52:13,480
what they call a flying saucer.
Any triangle ones that wouldn't really work.

685
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:19,280
It was game right now. The
Yeah, in fact, I did find

686
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,440
two. I was coming back from
an in artifact auction in Ohio, and

687
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:28,000
I was in West Virginia and I
stopped by one of these brand new store

688
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,440
that they were selling various kinds of
frozen yogurt, and there was a big

689
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,920
cliff over to the side of the
property adjacent to it, and I went

690
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,199
over there and old there had washed
out of the cliff and fallen down below

691
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:45,440
two black stone objects that were rounded, just like a matter of fact,

692
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,400
just very much like one of the
triangular UFOs that I filmed from an airline

693
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,440
at third nine thousand feet seventy seven. I'm not saying those were UFO effigies,

694
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,599
but I have no explanation of what
they were. I still have one

695
00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,840
of them. Somebody, I think, but on them in the pocket and

696
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,159
walked out of my living room with
it. But the other one I still

697
00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:07,159
have, and it does look like
what I found, except what I filmed

698
00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:10,760
had more details in this day,
Yeah, how about that? So Ray,

699
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,239
I don't know, you know,
we got an hour left here,

700
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:19,480
we can we can go into your
into the dinosaur. I know it's it's

701
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:23,079
off the UFO topic, UM,
but I do uh. I do mention

702
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,320
that on my show occasionally about once
a month or so, I do go

703
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,480
off topic, and this this is
kind of the show for that. Um

704
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:37,800
So, but before we we go
into that, UM, just one thing

705
00:53:38,119 --> 00:53:43,320
I would like to talk about the
UFO subject. You have seen? Uh.

706
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,199
I know I asked you before and
you never really gave me an answer,

707
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:53,000
But you have seen more UFOs than
anyone I've I've known. Um,

708
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:59,559
you have filmed many many UFOs,
and I guess the question I have for

709
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:04,280
you is why do you think that
you have all these sightings? I mean,

710
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,039
okay, let me put that in
a context. I've also found more

711
00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:13,280
dinosaur tracks than anyone in the Eastern
United States. Four tracks of the flying

712
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,119
reptals terrastaurs or terra dactyl people call
them. Because I'm looking for them.

713
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:23,239
I've trained myself to know how to
look and to properly evaluate what I'm looking

714
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,880
at. And that's the clue.
Now, when you carry, as I

715
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,760
did for thirty years, a heavy
camera with a big glass lens on your

716
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:36,360
shoulder, giving you a netcache off, and you ask yourself, why the

717
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,480
heck am I doing this? Well, you keep looking at the sky to

718
00:54:38,519 --> 00:54:42,840
try to make it work well and
hope you see something, And that is

719
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,880
what I did. But let me
mention that the films I've been talking about

720
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:52,480
most everyone has multiple witnesses, including
excellent witnesses, and in other cases not

721
00:54:52,519 --> 00:55:00,440
only the films, but electronic and
gravitational magnetic measurements simultaneously in broad daylight ray.

722
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:04,880
You know, I remember when we
were discussing some of your some of

723
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,079
your sightings, at least a couple
of them, and probably more. But

724
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,639
I just remember you mentioning this that
you had a feeling first. And I

725
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:15,280
want to tell you also that I've
had other people and I'm not I know

726
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,360
you listened to the show a lot
of the time, but I've had people

727
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:22,679
on the show that have told me
exactly the same thing. And can you

728
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:28,039
describe what that feeling is? Well? Yes, the now, let me

729
00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:30,639
say that back in my teens,
when I was a believer in Geord Danskins

730
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:35,039
those words, I was able to
get that feeling for sighting, and I

731
00:55:35,079 --> 00:55:38,679
thought it was a telepathic message.
I don't believe that any longer. We

732
00:55:39,559 --> 00:55:44,599
got a tip from a gun of
scientist to White SAMs in July of nineteen

733
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,280
seventy eight that if his sister had
seen me on the Philadelic Hue Show with

734
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,719
Heinick, and she called and said, my gosh, my brother, who

735
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:59,199
he was a physical scientist out there, says that if you've got that equipment,

736
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,320
you better get out there and sneak
around the periphery because we're being plagued

737
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,280
by them and have a directive to
get any kind of evidence that we can

738
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,719
get on this that we are capable
of getting. And we went out there

739
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:14,199
and we got spectator results. But
what happened is on the way out there,

740
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,760
our financed era was with us,
the guy that put huge money into

741
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,239
this wonderful guy, and he was
in along with us with my wife and

742
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:28,440
me in our eight week old baby. And after we had a siting,

743
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:32,480
I comment, I said, you
know, I felt that before it happened,

744
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,760
and they said that they did too, and to later on they experienced

745
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:44,159
this same feeling before the objects showed
up. But what we found out during

746
00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:49,360
that event we recorded the extreme low
frequency of magnetism emitted by these objects that

747
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,760
had a direct correlation with their maneuvers, and by golly, when you look

748
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:59,559
at it in the context of scientific
studies unrelated to UFOs about how this elf

749
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:04,480
and this affects the human nervous system
and brain, you begin to understand something.

750
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,639
A part of it is in the
deep RESTful sleep range. Now,

751
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:13,159
if you're asleep and one of these
things comes around, that might explain why

752
00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:16,400
one of a couple gets up to
go to the bathroom sees an incredible thing

753
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:22,239
a close range out the bathroom window
can't awake the spouse to see it because

754
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,039
it's weird that cannot be awakened.
That might be explained by the fact that

755
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:32,039
when ELIF in this range is affecting
the brain, it actually replicates what is

756
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:36,239
impinging on it. And if it's
deep RESTful sleep, it could be very

757
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:38,880
hard to wake you up. But
if you are awake, it gives you

758
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:45,320
a wonderful, rested, relaxed feeling
that we jokingly call. You would spell

759
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:50,079
it in the Dixonary euph o r
I a u furia, but we spell

760
00:57:50,119 --> 00:57:54,599
it ufo ria because based on the
recordings we made in broad daylight with multiple

761
00:57:54,599 --> 00:58:00,719
witnesses and instrument recording in film.
We believe that this frequency, it can

762
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:07,639
be perceived consciously and it makes you
feel surprisingly good. You might feel like

763
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:10,639
when you wake up on an autumn
morning in the atmosphere is so clear and

764
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,519
end this atmospheric high, that kind
of thing, or you might be a

765
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:17,000
teenage a kid that all of a
sudden realized, Hey, today's to day.

766
00:58:17,039 --> 00:58:21,679
I have that secret meeting in the
woods with my best girlfriend. I

767
00:58:21,719 --> 00:58:23,920
mean, it's a kind of thing, that energy, and it's a wonderful

768
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,920
thing, and we call it euphoria. And I believe that people could be

769
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,400
trained to become walking talking UFO detectors, but I'm not going to go into

770
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:37,840
the business of training them or I'll
be called a god man. Wow.

771
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:45,000
Yeah, I remember one of the
sightings you said was actually on an airline.

772
00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:47,960
You mentioned you sought back something in
nineteen seventy nine, but I remember

773
00:58:49,079 --> 00:58:52,400
you said you reached over and grabbed
your camera, and well, that's right.

774
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:55,119
Well I tell you what. We
had taken off from New York.

775
00:58:55,119 --> 00:59:00,960
This was seventy seven Brandish Flight nine, and as we were coming we were

776
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:04,239
through what they called pe soup.
We were in clouds, and we were

777
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,599
flying out in New York City to
Dallas Fort Worth and ran to fly night.

778
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:12,679
And what happens is I felt this
we tired experience before. And I

779
00:59:12,719 --> 00:59:15,320
said to my wife, who was
right beside Nichourse in the airline, see,

780
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,599
I said, listen, I said, you're trying to go to sleep,

781
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:20,760
but I feel it when we get
through the clouds, there's going to

782
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,519
be one out there. I can
feel that so strongly that I felt before.

783
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,599
And she said, look, she
was pregnant. She was going to

784
00:59:27,639 --> 00:59:30,440
have her first child in May,
as it turns out, and this was

785
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,039
December, and she said, look, I've got to get some sleep.

786
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:36,800
I think I'm coming down with a
cold. I have a headache, I

787
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,599
feel nauseated. I've got to get
them. Don't you if you see one.

788
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,400
You showed me enough of these things
since we got married. Don't wake

789
00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:46,679
me up. And I said,
okay, and but just what Then she

790
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,119
said, wait a minute, wake
me after you see a mother ship,

791
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:54,440
because I haven't seen one. And
to believe it or not, about two

792
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,039
hours later, well, when we
got out of the clouds, there was

793
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:02,800
this beautiful object pacing our plane and
I said, I've got to film you.

794
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:06,960
I've got to film you, guys. And I grabbed on my seat

795
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,639
and I part and I had the
case. It had two pad pads on

796
01:00:08,679 --> 01:00:13,119
top, had the lockdown I had
unlocked them, and I got really upset

797
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:15,840
that I couldn't get it. And
the thing took off like a proverbial bat

798
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:21,119
out of health and shot straight up, this straight up at tremendous speed and

799
01:00:21,239 --> 01:00:24,800
left. But about two hours later
into the flight, I saw what appeared

800
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:29,599
to be the same type of object, but instead of being looking with the

801
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:34,000
surface that looked like liquid mercury,
it had a surface that was so black

802
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:37,119
it seemed to absorb every light ray
that hit unless it was hit at a

803
01:00:37,239 --> 01:00:42,760
very narrow oblique angle and then suddnight
we reflected off of it there. But

804
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,880
I began to get filmed and I
got multiple minutes in broad daylight this object,

805
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,440
and it led me my camera and
my camera of course to the big

806
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,960
carrier mothership whatever you want to call
it, that was out there that we

807
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:04,599
now know from data and the film
was about one hundred and sixty five miles

808
01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:07,039
away from the camera, but it
was huge, and we have we have

809
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:10,559
size day to own this big thing
and these objects were going to and from

810
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:15,760
it like crazy and incredible speech.
They were dranger objects, they were disc

811
01:01:15,119 --> 01:01:22,199
and I got wonderful film and the
whole story were really well documented. I

812
01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:24,840
don't want to get into that because
we're going to try to get into ten

813
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:30,519
million years ago. Yeah, but
anyway, that was a prime example of

814
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:37,239
feeling the euphoria and being able to
benefit by it and getting a film right

815
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:42,599
before we get into ten million or
more years ago. I just wanted to

816
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:46,039
allow that if someone wanted to call
in, we're going to put the call

817
01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:51,239
in number up and if you're over
at KGr Hey Radio, that number is

818
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,599
six h three nine sixty seven four
h three. Oh. And what I'd

819
01:01:54,599 --> 01:02:00,199
like to allow is if anyone wants
to call in and talk about UFOs before

820
01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:02,599
we changed the subject. And so
if no one, if no one does

821
01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:07,599
speak right up, then we are
going to move on to the dinosaurs.

822
01:02:07,599 --> 01:02:13,159
So along those lines, right,
you actually had a sighting when you went

823
01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:16,400
to pick sheel up one day,
right, yes, yeah, yes,

824
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:22,400
oh, that was in nineteen eighty
nine. At that time, this was

825
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,920
before she went with the Hubble space
telescope servicing missions, and she was in

826
01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:32,599
public affairs it Godard and I had
back in those days before nine to eleven,

827
01:02:32,679 --> 01:02:36,719
so you could park your car right
in front of Billing eight, which

828
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:39,599
is the administration building. And I
had in my car with me in its

829
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:45,800
case a thousand millimeter telephoto in a
thirty five millimeter camera. That's a twenty

830
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,880
power lens, and it was a
high quality, expensive lens, and I

831
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,440
pull up there. In Monaho,
there is a shape UFO on the western

832
01:02:54,519 --> 01:03:00,719
horizon, and at that point in
time it had what I now known to

833
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:06,719
have been plasma around its surface,
but it was It was like a biconvex

834
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:14,760
disc, except it was like two
cones and flage to flange. But as

835
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:21,519
I filmed it, it actually the
plasma moved off its surface and began to

836
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:27,960
contour the dipolar magnetic field. Now
people don't know that term. You would

837
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,920
probably have though in school, have
had a bar magnet under a piece of

838
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,920
paper and scattered shavings around, and
you see that pattern. It has two

839
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,360
poles north and south, we're called
and that's a two dimensional version of it.

840
01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:45,159
But this looked like a three dimensional
version in the sky because you can't

841
01:03:45,199 --> 01:03:50,159
see a magnetic field. But if
there is plasma, which is emitting light.

842
01:03:50,239 --> 01:03:53,000
Because of the energy in it and
the electrons moving from one orbit to

843
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:57,679
another and emitting light, you will
be able to see it. And I

844
01:03:57,719 --> 01:04:01,119
could see it, and I got
one absolutely. I think it was the

845
01:04:01,159 --> 01:04:08,719
fifth photograph. Spectacular, beautiful photograph
of this beautiful field around this object.

846
01:04:08,719 --> 01:04:11,599
And at that point, once the
plasma is off the surface, you can

847
01:04:11,639 --> 01:04:16,000
actually see that there are what I
call these compositional panels that I talked about

848
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,239
earlier, like in that disc we
saw, you can actually see them on

849
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,480
the surface. It's it's not a
blob of light, it's not something you

850
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:27,199
can't see something. You can actually
see the panels, but most spectacularly,

851
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:32,360
this beautiful three dimensional magnetic field around
it. And so that was that was

852
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:39,159
in November of nineteen eighty nine,
taken from right in front of the administration

853
01:04:39,199 --> 01:04:43,599
building of the Nassacator Space Flight Scenery. When the thing left, I rushed

854
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:50,719
in and told my wife and even
called someone from the well to get the

855
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:56,800
name of the local UF organization to
tell him about it. But I made

856
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,480
a drawing for Sheila so silverth and
that was really when I got the pictures

857
01:05:00,519 --> 01:05:02,880
back. I was just so thrilled
because I'll tell you too, I'd bout

858
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,599
to commitment. There you imagine that
part about the field that's too good to

859
01:05:05,639 --> 01:05:10,599
be true, but there it was
on the film, just beautiful, amazing,

860
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,960
amazing. So someone just try to
call in and they hang up.

861
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,440
So if you are calling in,
just keep in mind that I'm not going

862
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:23,280
to interrupt Ray while i was talking. So just hang there and then I'll

863
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,920
introduce you. And also make sure
that you have your radio or computer or

864
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,000
whatever it is you're listening, to
make sure that you have that muted at

865
01:05:30,039 --> 01:05:32,440
that time, if you would.
So we're still taking calls. Everyone wants

866
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,599
to call in, otherwise we're going
to switch a subject here really quickly.

867
01:05:38,159 --> 01:05:45,800
And so Ray, you have also
for the person that has not heard you

868
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:49,000
for the first time, this is
their first time listening to you. I

869
01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:57,559
want to say you mentioned earlier about
your book on Skoro, and you have

870
01:05:57,639 --> 01:06:00,239
written the best book. There's been
a couple of others, or at least

871
01:06:00,239 --> 01:06:06,119
one other, or I remember you
mentioning Lonnie's a Morris daughter told you that

872
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:11,079
you had written the best account of
what happened. Well, yes, well

873
01:06:11,199 --> 01:06:15,719
you see, Lonnie told her that
she when she turned twenty one said,

874
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,960
Dad, you never want to talk
about this. Could you please stop twenty

875
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,920
one? Can you please tell me
what you saw go into? And he

876
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:27,239
said, look sel at file of
their everybody sent me articles, people writing

877
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:30,440
about this. Nobody get right.
If you want the full story accurately,

878
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,599
there's only one person that got it
right, and that's race Standard in that

879
01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:38,280
book over there that you see on
the shelf. And he said, if

880
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,800
you'll read that, you'll know everything
that us all and you'll learn a lot

881
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,320
more. And so she contacted me
and was very appreciative. Wow, yeah,

882
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,119
yeah, that's still in my book, one of the best. Uh,

883
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:56,079
you know, it's in the definitely
in the top ten sightings. And

884
01:06:56,559 --> 01:06:59,719
would you consider, if you could
be biased, would you agree with that

885
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:08,400
it is certainly in North America?
It is the absolutely best documented coos encounter

886
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:12,800
of the third kind. Were a
person where the policeman, Lanni Samoa,

887
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,920
the Cooro policeman, saw two diminutive
arguments in what appeared to be white coveralls

888
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:23,119
outside the craft. Yes, it
is certainly North America's, in my opinion,

889
01:07:23,159 --> 01:07:27,719
most credible close encounter of the third
kind. And you were there shortly

890
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,159
after the one part I don't think
we've ever discussed on the show. Is

891
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:34,280
how you found out about it?
How did you find out about Yeah,

892
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,199
well I didn't know about it.
And I got a call from a friend

893
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:43,360
of mine, Bob Matthews, in
in Corpus Christi, Texas, my hometown

894
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,360
now there, and he said,
my gosh, why aren't you in Zikoro?

895
01:07:48,159 --> 01:07:51,400
Why should I be in Zicaro?
And he said, well, the

896
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:56,400
policeman there has seen a graph landed
with some marcumens outside. I said,

897
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:01,760
oh, my gosh. And suddenly
my mother and father sent me a clipping

898
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:04,800
out of the perpecate paper talking about
it. I think it was headed long

899
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:10,440
tall object has hot feet, which
is kind of stupid. But anyway,

900
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:15,719
I made arrangement and took off horse
of cool and arrived there on Monday.

901
01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:20,079
It was on a Friday evening that
this happened, and I arrived there,

902
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:25,079
and I happened to arrive at the
very time at the same time, just

903
01:08:25,159 --> 01:08:30,439
a little bit after Heineck had arrived
there. And so now Heineck knew me

904
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:34,840
from correspondence on another important UFO case
back in nineteen fifty nine. And so

905
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:40,359
when I told Lonnie Zamor to tell
him he was going to be interviewed by

906
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:44,279
telling him that Ray Stanford is here
and would like you to get together on

907
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:49,439
this. Heineck actually over the protests
of New Mexico State Police Sergeant Samuel Chavis,

908
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,680
who didn't like any of these investigators
coming in on what he thought was

909
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:58,720
a secret government craft that had landed
there. Heinik insisted that they let me

910
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,039
come out to the site while he
was questioning Zamora and Chavis. And that's

911
01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:06,520
how I got to the side and
got turned onto some remarkable things and wrote

912
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:11,239
the book, which was published in
nineteen seventy six. It took me years

913
01:09:11,239 --> 01:09:15,560
of research to try to make sure
that everything was accurate. I did it

914
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,039
so well that I had a lawyer
read it before I probably to make sure

915
01:09:18,079 --> 01:09:20,760
nobody could sue me. And he
said, Ray, you missed your calling.

916
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,840
He said, I think you'd better
go back to school and become a

917
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,720
lawyer in Austin. Later, I
have another lawyer friend reading he said the

918
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,520
same thing. I really did work
though to make a good case, and

919
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,880
it was. It was a lot
of fun, But nobody knows the work

920
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,319
that goes into an important case like
that. If you're really going to document

921
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:42,560
it. Well, I gotta tell
you we first started talking back several years

922
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,359
ago. I'm thinking I don't know, maybe six five or six years ago.

923
01:09:46,239 --> 01:09:51,279
You sent me the book and it
was an excellent read. You still

924
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:56,159
have some of those books, right? Yes? I do have. I

925
01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:00,399
they're the original first edition, and
I have quite a few copies left,

926
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,000
not a huge number because most of
them have sold, but I have copies

927
01:10:04,039 --> 01:10:06,079
that have you know, the dust
jacket. They look like you would have

928
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:10,520
bought them back in nineteen seventy six. And you know people won't them.

929
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:15,800
I can tell them that they can
get order them. And the cost is

930
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,239
with the shipping is fifty five dollars
and that's sheet compared to what some guys

931
01:10:19,239 --> 01:10:24,279
I know various places have sold them
for sold them up to four hundred and

932
01:10:24,319 --> 01:10:27,039
fifty dollars a piece. But I'll
sign them for you if you want them

933
01:10:27,079 --> 01:10:30,319
signed with or without your name in
the signing, and to get him to

934
01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:33,479
you for that price by by priority
mail with tracking. Yeah. Well,

935
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,960
just anyone that wants to anyone that
wants to order a book. And I

936
01:10:38,239 --> 01:10:41,239
got to tell you it's one of
my very favorite books. I really really

937
01:10:41,279 --> 01:10:45,199
enjoyed it. And I let someone
borrow it. I've been waiting to get

938
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:49,319
it back. They were They loved
it too. But anyway, anyone wants

939
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:54,319
to order a book, just write
me at Martinette Podcast UFO dot com and

940
01:10:54,359 --> 01:10:57,880
I'll pass it along to Ray and
you're you're welcome to all right, so

941
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,159
we don't have any callers on the
UFO topics. We're going to move on

942
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:05,560
and we're going to talk about your
discovery. On the first break, you

943
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:12,279
mentioned that you were in the Guardard
Space Center parking lot waiting for Sheila and

944
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:14,960
you happen to see a rock stick
out and something made you get out of

945
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,560
the car and go check it out. Is that the first set of track?

946
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,079
You found? Other tracks before that? Right? Oh? Yes,

947
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:26,399
I've found hundreds and hundreds of them
beginning Well, it's been now twenty five

948
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:31,000
years, and I blame my eldest
son who talked me into buying a book

949
01:11:31,039 --> 01:11:35,960
on tracking, and doctor Martin locklace
Book, who's now been on my track

950
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:43,520
papers. He's been one of my
coauthors and it us that's how I got

951
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,439
it got into it. I mean, I really wasn't interested in dinosaurs and

952
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,760
tracking only superficially for the purpose.
When my kids are growing up, I

953
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,920
was showing them the tracks down in
Texas. But when we got into it

954
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:58,199
and I begin to find these things. I mean I have found hundreds of

955
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:01,680
tracks and small trackways, anosaurs and
flying reptals. I have the only flying

956
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:05,520
rental tracks that Rubin found the eastern
USA. Because people don't know what to

957
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:10,039
look for. Most people can recognize
one of the types of donostair tractor,

958
01:12:10,079 --> 01:12:13,039
your treeto track that you might have
seen in close encounters of the third kind

959
01:12:13,079 --> 01:12:15,960
after t rex had walked there.
But most people don't know what a flying

960
01:12:16,039 --> 01:12:19,640
reptals track look like. But if
you studied lockleaf books, you find out.

961
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:25,279
And that's how I begin to find
these They're not all that they're rare,

962
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:28,199
but not all that rare that you
can't find them around here. Now,

963
01:12:28,319 --> 01:12:30,199
is there a certain type of rock
that you have to look for where

964
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:36,119
these impressions actually stay. Yes.
In the first place, if you want

965
01:12:36,119 --> 01:12:40,600
to look for a dinosaur age tracks, whether it's from the mammals or the

966
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:44,640
flying rentals or the downosaurs, what
you do. You go to your local

967
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,560
geological survey and you want to look
in stream beds where there are out of

968
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:51,479
croppings of rocks of the age of
dinosaurs. Here they are, of course,

969
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:58,199
there are what are called lower Cretaceous
early Cretaceous, and the ones I

970
01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:00,239
find are about one hundred ten hundred
two years old, but you'll need to

971
01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:05,000
get your geological maps and look for
them. Here they have a nice deep

972
01:13:05,039 --> 01:13:10,479
green for that outcropping, and you're
not going to find dinosaur tracks where there

973
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:15,000
were the rocks at the wrong age, but here locally they are. They

974
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,199
can either be various shades of brown
or they can be beautiful even combinations of

975
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:25,199
hematite, a red form of loosely
consolidated hematite, and lamonite, which is

976
01:13:25,279 --> 01:13:28,640
yellow, and that makes a beautiful
combination. Sometimes you'll believe or not you'll

977
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,880
have a red track on a yellow
background, or vice versa. And that's

978
01:13:31,159 --> 01:13:34,680
that has caused me and many other
people that have seen them to say that

979
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:39,399
Maryland has the most beautiful dinosaur tracks
in the world. How about that?

980
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:45,119
So you want to your discovery was
extremely important and also because there were mammals

981
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:49,119
involved too, right, that's correct. Yeah, the in fact owned a

982
01:13:49,239 --> 01:13:55,520
sled Goddard. It's it's about two
square meters size, about the size of

983
01:13:55,520 --> 01:14:00,199
a decent size but not large,
not huge a dining table, and it's

984
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,880
actually eight and a half feet long
and thirty nine inches at the very widest

985
01:14:04,079 --> 01:14:09,680
and owned there there are nearly one
hundred, let's be conservative and say ninety

986
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:14,359
footprints, but at least forty,
maybe a few more than forty of them

987
01:14:14,399 --> 01:14:17,479
are by mammals, and by at
least three kinds of mammals, the tracks

988
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,840
of which have never been seen before, including when we published it. The

989
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:26,760
largest published track of a mammal from
the dinosaur rays it has ever been seen,

990
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:31,239
bigger than adult badger's track four inches
long, with very evidence of very

991
01:14:31,279 --> 01:14:36,359
sharp claws. But you had these
little mammals, the smaller ones, digging

992
01:14:36,359 --> 01:14:43,159
around in what back then was clumps
of feces from probably larger dinosaurs from the

993
01:14:43,159 --> 01:14:45,560
looks of it, and the flies
had laid their eggs in there, and

994
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,560
the larvae into some big flies and
some big larvae, and these mammals are

995
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,119
digging them out. You can see
where some of them were dug out,

996
01:14:53,119 --> 01:14:57,119
and you see their claw marks where
these little guys were going after the goody

997
01:14:57,199 --> 01:15:06,279
protein sources in the sea. And
but all the while tracking slowly four trackways

998
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:12,520
through the whole dang going west are
the tracks of small flesh eating dinosaurs,

999
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:16,279
and they are. We know they're
tracking slowly because of the close spacing of

1000
01:15:16,279 --> 01:15:20,640
the footprints. We did a calculation. We found out these little guys were

1001
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:26,000
moving less than a half mile per
hour. But there's method in the madness.

1002
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,319
They wanted to move slowly so not
be not distract the mammals from there

1003
01:15:30,359 --> 01:15:34,960
eating the larvae, so they can
jump and eat the mammals. And and

1004
01:15:35,199 --> 01:15:40,199
you know, it's it's a it's
all a dog eat dog society, I

1005
01:15:40,199 --> 01:15:43,800
guess. And but that big mammal
was so big it could have eaten the

1006
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:46,680
mammals. Are in fact the therapods, the small therapods. They were eating

1007
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,760
the mammals, and it could have
eaten some of the flying repples. We

1008
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:54,800
have a footprint of a pretty good
size flying repples, probably had a let's

1009
01:15:54,800 --> 01:16:00,479
say, a wingspan of say eighteen
feet fifteen eighteen feet, And I do

1010
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,159
have elsewhere it's yet to be published, but I have a footprint of a

1011
01:16:04,199 --> 01:16:10,560
mammal left front footprint of another mammal
flying repple terrastare you'll know, misterodactyl.

1012
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:14,880
Maybe we have one that is fifteen
inches long. It's the biggest ever found.

1013
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:18,439
And we have the feeding traces that
are compatible size with that show where

1014
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:23,439
it's struck that big beak down into
them, up and pulled up to pull

1015
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,479
whatever was living under their out to
have a meal. So tell me what

1016
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:32,680
did what did the Gardard Space Center
have to say about the discovery. They

1017
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,720
were delighted, they were thrilled.
In fact, when the paper came out

1018
01:16:36,399 --> 01:16:43,479
on the evening of the thirty first
of January this year, the Earth Science

1019
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:46,720
of throwing a big party in the
building thirty three, which is the Earth

1020
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:50,439
Science Facility, in the atrium there, and we have the nice We have

1021
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:57,039
a full size, total detailed three
dimensional reproduction made from a latex mold and

1022
01:16:57,359 --> 01:17:00,199
carefully colored exactly like the real thing
up there on the wall at an angle

1023
01:17:00,359 --> 01:17:03,479
with the map explaining it below,
which we'll see some ends of. And

1024
01:17:04,319 --> 01:17:09,640
the thing is that I mean,
they were packed in, they were thrilled.

1025
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,359
I'll tell you a funny story to
show you the human side of this.

1026
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:17,039
When I discovered this track and finally
announced it to public affairs. Well,

1027
01:17:17,039 --> 01:17:20,359
there's a section of Dollar's Base Flight
Center that are known as the facilities

1028
01:17:20,399 --> 01:17:24,800
people and they were begetting ready to
build. I did not know this when

1029
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:30,479
I found this, a thirty five
million dollars flight projects facility and part of

1030
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,600
it would have a piline go right
down in the middle of where this was.

1031
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:39,680
Well, this means we got to
stop and get that thing out of

1032
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:44,000
here. Those tracks and so here
they're delayed, and they were worried about

1033
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,720
it costing money and they were very
upset and let it be known. And

1034
01:17:48,079 --> 01:17:51,680
what is this guy coming along finding
donosaur and mammal tracks when we were building

1035
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:57,800
of earth face projects flight projects facility. Well, however, I have to

1036
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:01,359
say that the guy in charge that
came up at the at the big party

1037
01:18:01,359 --> 01:18:04,560
of the stone afterward and greeted me
in the most wonderful eye. He said,

1038
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:09,119
thank you, congratulations. You know
I was upset when this happened,

1039
01:18:09,199 --> 01:18:12,600
but he said, I want to
congratulate you. This is wonderful and I

1040
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:16,439
say, all's well. That ends
well. And the authorities, in fact,

1041
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,920
we had the paper sharper than I
would have liked. I wrote it

1042
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:28,199
originally a lot longer, but like
I talked, but it actually we reduced

1043
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:30,760
it down because they wanted to go
ahead and get this thing published, and

1044
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:35,399
the longer paper is the longer it
takes the peer reviewers to study it and

1045
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:40,840
pick it apart if they can,
and so and so forth, so and

1046
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:45,640
we succeeded. It was published in
Nature's Scientific Reports, and everybody was just

1047
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:49,159
strilled. The New York Times did
a beautiful coverage on it, with very

1048
01:18:49,159 --> 01:18:54,039
good pictures, as I showed in
the slugs, and so did the Washington

1049
01:18:54,159 --> 01:19:00,279
Post. And some wonderful TV coverages
were done on it. The best TV

1050
01:19:00,399 --> 01:19:03,039
coverage was was on a network that
I don't normally watch. It was on

1051
01:19:03,239 --> 01:19:12,199
the Fox News Sunday. But the
wonderful interview there, Uh did a marvelous

1052
01:19:12,319 --> 01:19:15,560
job, and he was deeply appreciative
and didn't bring any politics into it at

1053
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,920
all. And if one can go
there and see it, it's it's the

1054
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:23,840
best interview with me that was done
this whole time. And I was.

1055
01:19:24,239 --> 01:19:27,520
I was all over the world on
TV, and I was I had to

1056
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:30,600
sit there for day after day as
media people would come in and want to

1057
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,760
do their interviews. And one day
I was there, UH, just sitting

1058
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:38,800
there waiting for the next interview,
and here comes an important looking guy with

1059
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:44,640
guys in black suits around it.
Oh boy, But they looked like,

1060
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,079
you know that they might be secret
service people or something. Well it turns

1061
01:19:47,119 --> 01:19:50,960
out. But then they got close
enough, I realized that the the the

1062
01:19:51,159 --> 01:19:57,640
director of Goddard was there. But
the guy with him was was the what

1063
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:04,840
then was the the the congressman Stenny
Holler. He's still congressman, but he

1064
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:10,239
was the the what's called a minority
whip at that time. And he was

1065
01:20:10,279 --> 01:20:13,760
coming there and he walked up and
stopped and I'm just sitting there, not

1066
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:15,800
really I didn't realize it was Holier, but he stopped and he said,

1067
01:20:17,279 --> 01:20:23,439
who found this wonderful thing? He
shouted that out, and I confessed and

1068
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:25,840
he said, look, he said, I asked some question. I'm excited

1069
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:29,560
interested in this. And there you'll
see a picture of him with the director

1070
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:34,279
of the right side, Steve Coleys
with him, and he asked wonderful questions.

1071
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:39,560
I never expected this of a politician, but he was genuinely interested in

1072
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:44,159
and has some great questions which I
really appreciated. Wow, isn't that something?

1073
01:20:44,199 --> 01:20:48,359
And then you're a national geographic right
in the magazine and uh, oh

1074
01:20:48,399 --> 01:20:53,239
that's right. Yeah. They did
a coverage back in November of last year

1075
01:20:53,359 --> 01:20:58,880
of flying the flying repless Terras stars
and they did. They have a picture

1076
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,640
of me sitting in my living room
chair, easy chair in the corner of

1077
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,520
the living room. Yeah, yeah, I got to see that. So

1078
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:10,479
this is kind of amazing. So
you had let me just ask you this

1079
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:15,520
kind of oddball question. At any
point when you were talking about dinosaurs,

1080
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:19,520
did anyone actually find any connection with
you in UFOs and talk to you about

1081
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:26,079
it? Yes, a few of
them did. And when I explained that

1082
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:30,640
my approach to UFOs is just as
scientific and as skeptical as it is when

1083
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,520
I come across something in a stream
bit and ask myself what it is,

1084
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:39,439
I try to be objective. And
those that have learned about it and asked

1085
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:44,399
me about it, we're quite accepting
of my position on it. I don't

1086
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,600
take the position and don't tell them
me to ge man, there's little green

1087
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,920
men out there or something like that. I say that, apparently there is

1088
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:56,680
a sophisticated technology that if we can
tap it with instruments and get into it

1089
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:00,640
and be of immense value to humankind. And they understand that, and they

1090
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,159
now that. Of course, the
New York Times article has helped public relations

1091
01:22:04,159 --> 01:22:10,279
on this, I think, although
I'm not really impressed with the infrared videos,

1092
01:22:10,279 --> 01:22:14,680
still it has helped a lot,
and so everything has gone quite well.

1093
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:18,119
Nobody has written me off because I'm
involved with scientific u cities. Yeah,

1094
01:22:18,119 --> 01:22:21,520
that's that's good. And I know, you know, just just going

1095
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,439
back to that just a little bit, I know there are people from Goddard

1096
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:30,760
that actually have visited you and have
talked to you about about your your images

1097
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:32,840
and everything else. Right, well, that's right. In fact, there's

1098
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:39,439
one major major scientists. They're senior
scientists who, in fact, I have

1099
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:43,199
reason to believe from what I've heard
that he is the most in scientific papers,

1100
01:22:43,199 --> 01:22:46,920
scientifically cited his papers of any any
scientists at god A Space Flight Center.

1101
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:50,800
And he's been here sellow times and
three of the times, maybe four

1102
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:56,520
or five of the times he's looked
at those himatite UFO disc and he said,

1103
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:00,880
Ray, you know, those have
to be the convincing evidence I've ever

1104
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:09,279
seen that extraterrestals visitors long ago.
And here's you know, here's a high

1105
01:23:09,359 --> 01:23:13,840
level scientist saying this. And he
I don't say, what do you think

1106
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,359
of these? He tells me this
spontaneously. He keeps seeing them and making

1107
01:23:16,399 --> 01:23:19,079
that comment, and it's been that
reaction to a lot of people. Now.

1108
01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:24,319
Now some of them though, are
intimidated and they don't ask that looks

1109
01:23:24,319 --> 01:23:28,600
like flying sociers. I'm not going
to get into this subject, but there's

1110
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,119
top level scientist and others who have
been there have had a very positive and

1111
01:23:32,279 --> 01:23:36,600
very open minded reaction. Yeah.
Yeah, um so I was so glad

1112
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:42,319
because that this, this whole thing
happened to you, going back to the

1113
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:46,520
dinosaur thing, just because I think
that you really had uh, you know,

1114
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:51,159
you have a lot of respect due
to you, because I know you've

1115
01:23:51,159 --> 01:23:57,800
taken you know, the UFO field
seriously and if you'd actually find um these

1116
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:01,760
tracks I know that you had in
your basement. Was it the molded copy

1117
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:06,279
that you had? I know you
were looking at the studying this thing for

1118
01:24:06,319 --> 01:24:11,000
a long time, writing in your
basement. Right now, this was This

1119
01:24:11,039 --> 01:24:15,399
is the actual one that's displayed in
building thirty three, got its Earthyme's facility.

1120
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:20,880
Now it was made a latex mod
was made of the actual slab that

1121
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:25,399
I found after it was cleaned off, and then they cast it into some

1122
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:30,520
kind of white material and then colored
it exactly to match and then even as

1123
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:32,680
when I find these in the stream
bad you'll find fine silt is drift in

1124
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:36,079
the low places and makes you notice
tracks you won't notice. So they wanted

1125
01:24:36,119 --> 01:24:41,720
me to make the big notice our
track and the one big sauropod track visible.

1126
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:44,760
I'm doing this, and I scattered
some this silt around it. By

1127
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,399
gosh, when it begin to fall
into other places and little patterns, Oh

1128
01:24:47,399 --> 01:24:50,520
my gosh, there are all kind
of tracks on here. And here were

1129
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:56,880
all these this drama of the interaction
of these animals going on. And when

1130
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:01,199
I saw that there were mammal trucks
with inner action of theropods and these others,

1131
01:25:01,199 --> 01:25:08,720
these flying reptals that were landing right
nearby, I called this chief scientist,

1132
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:13,319
had Godard, and I said,
Jim, are you sitting down And

1133
01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:16,560
he said yes, And I said, look, they are mammal tracks over

1134
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,600
there with those. And he says, oh my gosh, he said,

1135
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:24,199
I think we got something really really
important. I said, you met,

1136
01:25:24,239 --> 01:25:28,800
we do. And so there it
was. It's the biggest congregation. There

1137
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,800
were more tracks on that slab at
Goddard and two square meters than in the

1138
01:25:32,039 --> 01:25:38,399
entire age of dinosaurs from all the
world had been found some together right there,

1139
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:43,359
and I'll have to say they were
two. They chose a good place

1140
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:45,439
that one hundred and ten million years
ago would be Goddard Space Flight Center.

1141
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,920
I can't say they smelled it coming
back anyway. It was a popular place

1142
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:54,840
back then. Now now, the
one thing did they go ahead and build

1143
01:25:54,840 --> 01:26:00,000
this building. They went in Melton
and they put one column down. Had

1144
01:26:00,039 --> 01:26:04,720
I not discovered this, sometimes I
think I'm on an unconscious rescue mission because

1145
01:26:06,199 --> 01:26:10,479
I not found this. Had I
even found it two weeks later, I

1146
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:13,560
would never have stopped him. They
would have gone ahead and would have put

1147
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,439
this down, and we started this
incredibly scientifically important column. But it had

1148
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:20,560
been cut out on the north side
by heavy equipment years before, and on

1149
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:26,119
the I'm sorry, on the west
side and the east side and it but

1150
01:26:26,279 --> 01:26:30,439
the piece was there originally where it
was when the animals stepped on it,

1151
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:34,279
and so that's that's what happened.
But ed Goddard, most of the things

1152
01:26:34,279 --> 01:26:38,439
have been ground up, as you
suggested earlier, by heavy equipment. But

1153
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:42,840
you'll find some tracks and pieces of
tracks that are around in the ravines where

1154
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:46,560
they had dumped this stuff that they
moved to make the basements and the buildings,

1155
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:50,319
and so they're still sentify found.
But we've tried to find other big

1156
01:26:50,359 --> 01:26:54,439
slabs, but we cannot find any. Yeah, I mean, I would

1157
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:58,159
think this is almost like a gold
rushan away with something important like this has

1158
01:26:58,199 --> 01:27:01,279
found where you really want to scout
um, you know, scout the area.

1159
01:27:01,359 --> 01:27:04,920
So it sounds like you've done that
more or less, that's right,

1160
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:11,159
and we've we've cautiously cautioned the people
that got or did if they're caught finding

1161
01:27:11,199 --> 01:27:15,000
and stealing these things, they could
go to prison on his government property,

1162
01:27:15,039 --> 01:27:18,039
and were very we try to be
very careful to discourage that. Although we

1163
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:21,119
did find a place where someone had
farently dug out a track, and not

1164
01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:26,079
only that, but a major scientist
got here and I got got hooked on

1165
01:27:26,399 --> 01:27:29,560
trying to track downosaurs after the fine
there we were at one day and we

1166
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,960
found a track. But at that
point, you know how government regulations are,

1167
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,279
we didn't have a clearance of where
you would take any tracks if you

1168
01:27:34,319 --> 01:27:38,560
found them. Uh, you leave
government property where it is, So we

1169
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,399
just moved it out of the streams
there ele washed away and put it under

1170
01:27:41,399 --> 01:27:45,439
a bush. But guess what the
news had already broken about the fines there

1171
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,960
somebody was watching us. We went
back a couple of days later and somebody

1172
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:51,880
had seen us and had stolen the
track. We don't know who's solely wow

1173
01:27:53,199 --> 01:27:58,479
wow and so um. But there's
no other there's no type of detection.

1174
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:00,840
I mean, it would just if
you tried to detect something like that,

1175
01:28:01,119 --> 01:28:04,399
like under the grass or under you
know, the layer of dirt, layers

1176
01:28:04,399 --> 01:28:09,960
of dirt. Uh, there's just
no way of doing it because it would

1177
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:13,600
just show up as a rock,
right yeah, well, yeah. We

1178
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:18,399
have some pictures that show a lady
pulling an interesting looking red electronic box and

1179
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:24,239
its ground finitating radar that they that
god Ad paid to be brought in from

1180
01:28:24,239 --> 01:28:27,600
New Mexico, and she went over
the area and there's several years they thought,

1181
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,119
oh my gosh, he maybe hitting
another slab of these tracks on it.

1182
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:32,560
But is one of the pictures was
quite funny. One guy dubbed down

1183
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:36,159
where the radar said it should be
and all you see is you see is

1184
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,880
the lower part of his hips and
his legs sticking out of the ground.

1185
01:28:40,279 --> 01:28:43,720
And I put a thing there that
he says, it's only clay. It

1186
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:47,039
was an ironbearing clay that was affecting
the radar, and so we did not

1187
01:28:47,159 --> 01:28:50,840
succeed in finding any other slabs.
And we have we have looked all over

1188
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:56,039
Goddard far it and there are no
so horse We've been able to find anyway

1189
01:28:56,399 --> 01:28:59,880
slabs like that right at the surface, but only in that case, only

1190
01:29:00,159 --> 01:29:03,720
only the big squeezed up edge of
the Notice our track was visible but the

1191
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:09,520
grass. But why would I notice
it and nobody else? Because I tracked

1192
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:13,760
dinosaurs And it's like an astrophysic told
me, he said, ray every day

1193
01:29:14,199 --> 01:29:16,680
for seven years, four and five
days a week, I've walked down there,

1194
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,479
past that, within four to six
feet of it, going to the

1195
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:21,640
cafeteria, and I never saw it. I said, yeah, look,

1196
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:25,840
your mind is looking up. You're
an astral physicist. I'm looking down,

1197
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:30,960
or you're looking both. I'm looking
both as a drup of matter, but

1198
01:29:30,199 --> 01:29:33,840
hopefully not at the same time,
at least when I'm driving. I had

1199
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,239
parked. I had parked in the
parking lot because I saw this, and

1200
01:29:36,279 --> 01:29:39,720
I said, I gotta have a
look. I walked over there and I

1201
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:43,359
thought, my gosh, Notice our
tracks are rare, and here's the most

1202
01:29:43,399 --> 01:29:46,319
beautiful, big notice oar tract that
I've ever seen right there at Gotter Spaceles

1203
01:29:46,359 --> 01:29:50,960
Center. Now the notice ours like
armored, an armored dinosaur, right,

1204
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:56,560
yeah, he's like a tank on
four legs. He's very armored as that.

1205
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,279
As we were showing a model in
some of the some of the pictures

1206
01:30:00,279 --> 01:30:01,960
from the public factors out there,
got some pictures I brought a model of

1207
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:05,680
a notice are they had these big
ridged armored and then some of them are

1208
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:09,760
actually big spikes that stick out.
But if they're babies, they don't.

1209
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:14,079
They grow as they grow or they
get these rougher and rougher surface. Now,

1210
01:30:14,119 --> 01:30:17,960
I do believe when I visited you
that in your own personal collection you

1211
01:30:18,039 --> 01:30:23,680
had a dinosaur track, but there
was also a cat footprint. Am I

1212
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,920
getting that right? No? Not
a cat, No, no, I

1213
01:30:27,319 --> 01:30:31,760
have. We have bigger tracks of
mammals than the one that got her that

1214
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:38,079
four inches long. We have some
spectacular tracks that I've found, and one

1215
01:30:38,119 --> 01:30:43,520
of them looks like a gigantic lion
track mountain lionel but it's bigger than a

1216
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:45,520
land than an adult lion track.
And we don't see the back of a

1217
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:49,000
zoo if it was elongated or if
it was sharter like it would be on

1218
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:54,800
a fee line a lion or a
mountain lion or a cat. But it

1219
01:30:55,239 --> 01:30:58,720
is spectacular. You can even see
between where the toenails were in the toe,

1220
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:02,239
you can see that it had and
it's just pictaker. And I found

1221
01:31:02,319 --> 01:31:05,760
right beside it another piece of the
heavy equipment of broken years ago, with

1222
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:11,479
a nice three toed dinosaur track walking
the same substrate, exactly that this giant

1223
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:15,520
mammal had been walking. Now,
Ray, you and I had a discussion

1224
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:20,479
about this one time, because there
is some people kind of pushing a theory

1225
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:25,680
that you know, men walk beside
dinosaur and I believe it's in Texas somewhere

1226
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:30,319
where they went through layers of rock
and they found footprints that look like human

1227
01:31:30,359 --> 01:31:34,000
footprints next to dinosaur prints. And
you had an answer for that, right.

1228
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:40,359
Indeed, island answer for it.
It's been investigated thoroughly, and one

1229
01:31:40,399 --> 01:31:44,840
of the chief investigators of this is
a perfect friend of mine. And the

1230
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:46,760
to of the matter is the tracks
they call man tracks. They say,

1231
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,439
well, these were giants, Well, how come these tracks or three feet

1232
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:54,399
long while it was a giant?
Well it's awfully Now what it is is

1233
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:59,600
that dinosaurs fleshing, donostaurs, the
theoppods when they wanted, if they heard

1234
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:01,560
a row of something that might be
dangerous, they would lure their profile.

1235
01:32:02,159 --> 01:32:06,520
Or if it was so muddy that
they didn't want to sink down too much,

1236
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:12,239
they would lure off their three toes
normally walk down, but they keep

1237
01:32:12,279 --> 01:32:15,960
their metal I called the metatasses,
the bows beyond the toes upward. But

1238
01:32:15,039 --> 01:32:18,640
they would lure their profile like a
snow shoot to keep you from sinking in

1239
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:21,760
the snow, to keep them from
sinking in the mud. And that's all

1240
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:26,079
in the world. It is what
these dishonest people trying to prove that the

1241
01:32:26,119 --> 01:32:30,039
world's only five thousand years old,
we're doing. They weren't telling you or

1242
01:32:30,079 --> 01:32:32,960
showing you upstream where the animal went
up slope. And as he goes up

1243
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:39,800
slope, he rises up on his
toes what's called digital grade, and went

1244
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:42,319
out of plant a grade. We
have a fine example of this. And

1245
01:32:42,359 --> 01:32:45,239
they got her to slam smaller but
the same type of dinosaur. And when

1246
01:32:45,239 --> 01:32:50,279
he walked through an area that was
wet, then he lured down on the

1247
01:32:50,319 --> 01:32:55,079
metatassis. But you see, as
soon as it climbs up the slope,

1248
01:32:55,319 --> 01:33:01,039
it gets back up on his toes
slowly again right causes a track to be

1249
01:33:01,119 --> 01:33:04,880
preserved, or in this case,
so many. You know, I think

1250
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:11,000
about people walk every day and then
how could you know footprints be preserved.

1251
01:33:12,119 --> 01:33:18,000
Yeah, the people don't realize what
happens in the first place. In most

1252
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:23,760
of these cases, the tracks were
probably exposed for a little while, maybe

1253
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:28,039
enough slightly dry out, or there
may have been a low grade water moved

1254
01:33:28,039 --> 01:33:32,479
over them. And ferrophagic bacteria These
are bacteria that means bacteria that eat iron.

1255
01:33:33,319 --> 01:33:40,600
They get in there and they excrete
hematide and it coats it and creates

1256
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:44,359
basically an armor plating. In some
cases that doesn't happen, but there are

1257
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:49,079
bacterial slime that builds upon it.
It drives out, Then the water receded

1258
01:33:49,159 --> 01:33:53,520
drives out a little bit. You've
got this tiny little microscopic bearer, and

1259
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:58,279
then a fledge comes and covers it
up. But years later, when they're

1260
01:33:58,319 --> 01:34:02,119
trying to deepen the streams, for
example here, to keep up water out

1261
01:34:02,119 --> 01:34:09,279
of their streets, they cut through
here and they break this the upper layer

1262
01:34:09,359 --> 01:34:13,800
off, and it exposes these layers
where the tracks are. It separates that

1263
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,640
way because I think because mainly the
bacterial mat that was there, whether it's

1264
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:21,560
one that it was formed as iron
through the iron eating bacteria, or whether

1265
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:29,439
there's another other types of bacteria.
I think bacteria are largely responsible for for

1266
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:33,479
this, enabling the substrates that's above
it to separate and sometimes we get Thus

1267
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:38,319
the what was above it that filled
the track, We've got it as where

1268
01:34:38,359 --> 01:34:40,439
you see the track as if it
were three, the mental land, the

1269
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,600
other one beneath it where it sinks
down. You got both the top one

1270
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,720
and the bottom. Sometimes we'll find
a piece on it. Well, we'll

1271
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:47,199
see a crack. You jar it
a little bit and it comes loose,

1272
01:34:47,199 --> 01:34:50,279
and you've got the nice infal on
one side and the track on the other.

1273
01:34:50,319 --> 01:34:54,399
It's really nice when you're showing this
to children, for example, to

1274
01:34:54,439 --> 01:35:00,319
help them understand what was happening,
how it got preserved. How can how

1275
01:35:00,319 --> 01:35:05,600
can you guess how many years span
say, for instance, that slab,

1276
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:11,479
it sounded like there was maybe a
predator situation there, But if not,

1277
01:35:12,279 --> 01:35:16,159
can many years go by on the
same in the same area where these things

1278
01:35:16,159 --> 01:35:20,720
are preserved? Or is this just
something that is for you know, ephemeral

1279
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:25,720
to say a month or a week
or a day or whatever. We believe

1280
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:30,159
that the gutter tracks were probably made
in largest time a few hours and maybe

1281
01:35:30,159 --> 01:35:32,399
no more than a couple of days. It could have been a week,

1282
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:36,399
but probably not because we don't see
any stepping on top of each other.

1283
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:42,399
But when you look at that slab, there's there's the arramstone which is brown

1284
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:45,199
red, and then you'll have white. The slab weighs about three and a

1285
01:35:45,199 --> 01:35:48,319
half times, but you'll see a
layer of softer white step and then you'll

1286
01:35:48,319 --> 01:35:51,720
see another armstone layer. Well,
if we ever get the financing to cut

1287
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:57,159
that apart and dissolve the softer white
area, we'll have another layer with a

1288
01:35:57,159 --> 01:35:59,920
bunch of tracks on it. Probably
we've got two other layers, I think

1289
01:36:00,319 --> 01:36:02,960
beneath that. These were much earlier. You see, and then as as

1290
01:36:03,119 --> 01:36:06,840
infill in in the floodplane kept bringing
dirt down and covering it up. Then

1291
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:11,039
you get to an area where there
was a high bacterial content of the type

1292
01:36:11,039 --> 01:36:15,039
that would leave the would create the
ironstone, and the situated and create the

1293
01:36:15,079 --> 01:36:20,800
ironstone. But sometimes they're preserved in
just a siltstone or even sandstone that's been

1294
01:36:21,359 --> 01:36:27,960
hardened by by silicon infusion, and
so there are many ways of farms in

1295
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:32,159
which he can get preserved. But
and you can have one on top of

1296
01:36:32,199 --> 01:36:35,840
the other. It can get remarkable. And sometimes we have a wonderful track

1297
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:39,640
in which you see the track on
topping can turned over and you see the

1298
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:43,399
negative of it, you see the
push down and you can even see where

1299
01:36:43,399 --> 01:36:46,640
in one case the dinosaur got his
foot stuck in the clay and twisted it

1300
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:49,680
to get his toes out of the
clay and lifted it out. I mean,

1301
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:54,319
it's it's almost as if you could
get a step in a time machine

1302
01:36:54,359 --> 01:36:57,479
and actually see it happening. It's
really wonderful when you get to studying it.

1303
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:00,239
Oh I bet, I bet,
that's it's fast to me. Now

1304
01:37:00,279 --> 01:37:08,680
what about unknown or found species?
Has any of that appeared in tracks themselves?

1305
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:13,479
Oh? Yes. Now we can't
talk of specific species of animals from

1306
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:17,680
tracks. We can talk about species
of tracks. And in other words,

1307
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:23,039
when you have a track with that
that's well documented, several examples, and

1308
01:37:23,079 --> 01:37:26,680
you can say it has certain types
of farm and qualities to it, then

1309
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:30,680
just like an animal species, you
can publish it as a trace. Species

1310
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:34,039
is called in the papers, and
it's noo or trace species. And it's

1311
01:37:34,119 --> 01:37:38,239
not telling you the species of the
donosaur, it's the species of track.

1312
01:37:38,319 --> 01:37:43,399
For example, no one had ever
found and published the tracks of a hip

1313
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:46,880
clophen on, a planeting donosaur,
but I repeatedly kept finding them around here.

1314
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:49,920
So I wrote a paper and Martin
Luck they joined me on it,

1315
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:56,079
and we published a paper about a
new what you would call it is no

1316
01:37:56,199 --> 01:38:00,399
species or trace species. And his
name is a hips witness Merrill Anachus well

1317
01:38:00,399 --> 01:38:05,479
obviously of Maryland, but hipsilo means
the trace of a hipsilophidon, never been

1318
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:09,239
published before. But we had not
only the back foot print, but the

1319
01:38:09,279 --> 01:38:12,479
front foot print with it in two
examples, one from up in Baltimore and

1320
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,359
one down here, and it was
just wonderful. It tremendous documentation. And

1321
01:38:15,399 --> 01:38:19,520
the foot the type of the feetble
the back and the front are different from

1322
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:23,079
what I'd ever seen on any of
the dinosaurs. And we get those two

1323
01:38:23,159 --> 01:38:29,000
unique tracks together, you've definitely got
a hipsiloicness meryl Aannicus. So we were

1324
01:38:29,039 --> 01:38:33,159
the this is of Maryland gets credit
for providing the first example worldwide of the

1325
01:38:33,199 --> 01:38:38,039
hips of the tracks of a hips
toophodon. But We have also other new

1326
01:38:38,119 --> 01:38:41,279
species of Donostair tracks yet to be
published, and we published one in the

1327
01:38:41,279 --> 01:38:45,800
Goddard paper and we gave it a
name that I'll tell you I have travel

1328
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:51,000
remembering this name. I'm eighty years
old, but it was it had daughterd

1329
01:38:51,039 --> 01:38:56,760
INSS after Goddard, and so it
we've given Goddard to credit for. It's

1330
01:38:57,319 --> 01:39:02,079
it's a mammal track, so it's
you know what, you have footprint species,

1331
01:39:02,119 --> 01:39:05,800
but people should not mistake them for
a species of animal. They're really

1332
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:10,880
just a scientific classification to footprint,
even as we classify animals as species.

1333
01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:15,000
Now, I know you and I
have talked briefly, I don't know,

1334
01:39:15,039 --> 01:39:18,159
maybe a few years ago about this, but I never really got your feeling

1335
01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:21,119
on it. I kind of have
mixed feelings myself. But you know,

1336
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:25,119
because I'm in the fine arts and
the antiques and the auction business, I

1337
01:39:25,199 --> 01:39:27,680
kind of pay attention to things.
And you know, there was a t

1338
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:33,399
rex uh you know, skeleton basically
that was found that sold for multimillions of

1339
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:39,640
dollars and I at auction, and
I just wondered what you thought about about

1340
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:43,640
commercializing. You know, when something
goes to auction and I know, it's

1341
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:46,239
museums that typically want to want to
own it, and that's what the demand

1342
01:39:46,279 --> 01:39:50,039
for it. That's right, Well, it's it's a it's really it's a

1343
01:39:50,119 --> 01:39:59,039
human problem that sometimes innervaces and conflicts
with the scientific challenges. And uh,

1344
01:39:59,319 --> 01:40:03,600
the I'll tell you I am not
impressed with museums paying millions of dollars for

1345
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:08,479
t Rex. Everybody knows you can
go to a museum that Scott, You've

1346
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,479
got good t Rex skeletons. They're
not really the skeleton, but they're made

1347
01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:15,840
of casts of the bones and they
look exactly like the real thing. And

1348
01:40:15,199 --> 01:40:18,880
a museum, in my opinion,
has better ways to spend his money than

1349
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:27,079
than I mean, how many kids
must you go enable to say Rex and

1350
01:40:27,119 --> 01:40:30,680
it's so silly, I mean,
it's it should you should In my opinion,

1351
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:35,199
this Scotdard slad should be on displayed
out in the Smithsonian and it should

1352
01:40:35,399 --> 01:40:41,800
interret kids to learn what they themselves
can discover when you make discoveries on there.

1353
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,319
They can have an interactive that enable
them to make discoveries and they would

1354
01:40:45,399 --> 01:40:51,079
feel their own ability to do some
rudimentary science. This is the kind of

1355
01:40:51,119 --> 01:40:56,760
thing not that Drew Rugos t rex, but something else that that goes deeper

1356
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,359
and gets inside of them and lets
them know that there can be a more

1357
01:41:00,399 --> 01:41:02,439
interesting world than what they see in
that little electronic box on their hand.

1358
01:41:02,840 --> 01:41:09,119
And I feel strongly about that.
However, the curator Dons Maisonian, when

1359
01:41:09,159 --> 01:41:12,199
I had made these discoveries on the
slab working on the reproduction slide, we

1360
01:41:12,239 --> 01:41:14,800
didn't know that many tracks for on
it at all. We just knew the

1361
01:41:15,159 --> 01:41:17,760
notice our track and the baby and
the big sarpot track. The rest of

1362
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:21,159
we didn't know. But he came
overside. But the thing is, unfortunately,

1363
01:41:21,159 --> 01:41:25,159
by that time they are at this
new wing that's going to open up

1364
01:41:25,199 --> 01:41:29,239
the end of next year. I
think it is they already had, as

1365
01:41:29,279 --> 01:41:31,920
he said, every boat and screw
and the thing had already planned. They

1366
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:36,960
couldn't could find a way to get
this in because everything was predesigned and bought

1367
01:41:38,039 --> 01:41:42,359
in effect through the contractors, and
so there's nothing they could do about it.

1368
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,199
But I think that had the right
display with this and the idea that

1369
01:41:45,319 --> 01:41:49,560
said, Goddar's Space Flight Center,
where astrophysicists are walking right over things,

1370
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,279
they're looking out at the space millions
of years and not noticing the millions of

1371
01:41:54,319 --> 01:41:57,920
years down at their feet. I
think it would have been a tremendous drawing

1372
01:41:57,960 --> 01:42:00,520
card. There's the little dinosaur that
I have down there in the little notice

1373
01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:04,920
our track of a junior notice or
that gave beside it this displayed. I

1374
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:10,239
mean it has millions of viewers a
year. I forget the figure, but

1375
01:42:10,279 --> 01:42:12,880
there's it's over a million. I
think it was at least two points.

1376
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:16,880
Some think million people would pass through
there per year. But if they had

1377
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:20,119
a thing like this with the map
down below? By the way, are

1378
01:42:20,119 --> 01:42:26,000
we going to be able to show
any of those pictures of the dinosaurs the

1379
01:42:26,079 --> 01:42:29,439
slab with the map? Did you
know what? Ray? I think there

1380
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:33,079
was an issue with that. Maybe
I only was able to download one and

1381
01:42:33,119 --> 01:42:36,359
I thought they were the same.
Right, you probably sent me to of

1382
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:41,199
the Oh yeah, yeah, I'm
terribly sorry about that. Terribly sorry.

1383
01:42:41,239 --> 01:42:43,840
That's that's my fault. Yeah,
I love people have seen it. But

1384
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:47,800
anyway, in your promo though,
you had a nice link in the promo

1385
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:51,640
for this. You'll find in there
a nice link to a site that I

1386
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:57,199
had not even seen, and it
shows the slab and the map that my

1387
01:42:57,239 --> 01:43:00,159
wife and I laboriously made to explain
to you the track. So somebody wants

1388
01:43:00,199 --> 01:43:03,359
to go there and click on that
link. I appreciate you putting it in.

1389
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:06,800
They can see that for themselves and
study it. Okay, all right,

1390
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:12,680
great, Um, just uh let's
see. Uh we we have just

1391
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:15,199
like I think three or four minutes
left here. Ray. So, Um,

1392
01:43:15,239 --> 01:43:18,600
when I visited you, we're going
to shift gears a little bit.

1393
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:25,359
And I really appreciate your work and
I was absolutely thrilled. I'm still very

1394
01:43:25,399 --> 01:43:30,800
thrilled of all the publicity you actually
got in um, your great work that

1395
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:34,119
you did when it comes to the
dinosaur tracking, I've it's it's been a

1396
01:43:34,119 --> 01:43:39,520
lot of fun and i've i've i've
we've been in touch through this whole time

1397
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:42,920
when you've gone through this whole thing, and and I'm proud of you.

1398
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:46,239
Ray Well, thank you. Yeah, but I wanted to talk when you

1399
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:50,960
gave me the tour, um,
I was actually, uh that was very

1400
01:43:51,039 --> 01:43:54,800
nice. And we spent some time
with a gentleman with the last name Bartlett

1401
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:59,720
there satellite engineer I believe or something. But when you gave me the tour

1402
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:05,039
there at Goddard was it the James
Webb telescope that we saw them working on,

1403
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:10,279
trying to remember what it was.
Yes, as a matter of fact,

1404
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:15,359
and I've had some nice conversation with
the Nobel lawyer who's the scientific head

1405
01:44:15,359 --> 01:44:21,319
of that that project and uh in
a very very nice fellow. But yeah,

1406
01:44:21,319 --> 01:44:25,159
the part you mentioned he designed,
he believed or not, he was

1407
01:44:25,279 --> 01:44:29,840
responsible to the design of I think
either eleven or thirteen of the instruments that

1408
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:34,560
are owned the Mavin arbiter, Mars
arbiter that's in arbit now that is studying

1409
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:40,600
things about the upper atmosphere that gives
us clues as to what happened to change

1410
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:45,239
the Martian atmosphere over the ages in
the past, and and and and Bob

1411
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:49,560
did the design, as I said, of most I think of the instruments

1412
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:54,720
that were owned there, I was
amazed at how many he had the big

1413
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,319
design port in. Yeah, and
he's a guy that took you on the

1414
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:01,479
nice tour around Goddard, that's right. And I it's actually impressed that him,

1415
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:05,000
along with other uh you know,
other scientists there that are kind of

1416
01:45:05,039 --> 01:45:10,960
open minded. Going back to the
UFO topic, So, yeah, they're

1417
01:45:11,039 --> 01:45:14,399
very open minded when when you get
them privately, as I suspect some of

1418
01:45:14,399 --> 01:45:17,039
them if they were in the crowd
of God had employees there, they might

1419
01:45:17,039 --> 01:45:21,600
be a little more intimidated. I
can't speak for them, but privately,

1420
01:45:23,159 --> 01:45:26,920
I mean, they know me as
a rational person who made major world class

1421
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:30,520
discoveries there God had run under their
feet, and they respect me. And

1422
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:36,159
so when I begin to talk about
another type of hard evidence that we've gotten

1423
01:45:36,199 --> 01:45:44,399
in the way of films and magnetometer
and gravimeter and even spectrographic recordings, hard

1424
01:45:44,479 --> 01:45:48,760
data from UFOs, they take notice
and they realize I'll say, I'll say

1425
01:45:48,760 --> 01:45:53,159
something I cannot call the name,
but I can say that a person with

1426
01:45:53,239 --> 01:45:59,039
a PhD in a major physics,
a field of physics, and that has

1427
01:45:59,079 --> 01:46:03,359
had the high levels of government clearance
because of projects he's worked on both with

1428
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:11,039
the Navy and with the intellist community, and an interface with NASSA. He

1429
01:46:11,079 --> 01:46:14,840
has often had lunch and he's not
We've not called his name on this show

1430
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:20,520
at all. He has twice said
something quite remarkable to my wife, Sheila

1431
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:24,880
and me. One day he totally
said he took up. He stood up.

1432
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:27,319
One day we were getting ready to
leave and he said, Ray and

1433
01:46:27,399 --> 01:46:33,239
Sheila, anybody who is anyone,
and he meant in you know, in

1434
01:46:33,279 --> 01:46:41,239
the inside of sciential research with massive
so SO knows about the extraterrestrial technology.

1435
01:46:41,239 --> 01:46:43,720
Those are the exact words. He
didn't say beings. He said the extra

1436
01:46:43,840 --> 01:46:48,880
terrestrial technology that is visiting our atmosphere. And one day months later he was

1437
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:55,399
there with his son, who is
also an engineer, and our scientists sometimes

1438
01:46:55,439 --> 01:46:59,600
I mean exactly what, And we
were sitting there talking and he made the

1439
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:02,479
exact at the same statement in front
of a sun and to us. And

1440
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:09,079
I do not ask people who have
learned things on a basis of security clause.

1441
01:47:09,119 --> 01:47:13,399
I think it is unfair to ask
them to betray their oath to their

1442
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:17,479
country to because there may be reasons
we don't understand for national security. I'm

1443
01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:21,880
very cautious about what I have gotten
because I realized some of it. Maybe

1444
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:27,680
this has been my major holdback is
that I feel I've got some Mattie that

1445
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:33,199
is possibly a furdinit of national security. And I really I try to be

1446
01:47:33,239 --> 01:47:38,039
conscious, and I don't. I
never want to offend or ask anybody to

1447
01:47:38,039 --> 01:47:42,640
offend their to the government in their
positions of security, so I don't.

1448
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:45,479
I did not press this fellow feather
and say, wait a minute, what

1449
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:46,680
do you know? How do you
know it? We just took him at

1450
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:49,359
his word. Well, we're out
of time, Ray. So I will

1451
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:55,279
also remind people that if you want
to get that great book about the car

1452
01:47:55,399 --> 01:47:58,079
case, just to email me.
Thanks so much, Ray, It's always

1453
01:47:58,079 --> 01:48:00,159
a pleasure, a great pleasure.
Okay, thank you. All right,

1454
01:48:00,439 --> 01:48:04,119
all right, everyone, So that's
it for our show, and thanks so

1455
01:48:04,199 --> 01:48:08,439
much for listening. We're going to
be back next week with Terry Lovelace.

1456
01:48:09,039 --> 01:48:12,439
Should be a real great guest.
I'm really looking forward to that, and

1457
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:15,439
I want to thank you all for
listening, and remember to keep your eyes

1458
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:38,640
to the sky.