And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is at triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It
doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over
our heads, Classic fly. He's also really standing into clearing. He turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show.
During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. I'm Martin willis your host, and we have
Alajandre Ross coming up with UFO updates in just a second. Our guest tonight
is a long time and I mean long time researcher for many many years and
decades, going all the way back to the sixties. We have Ray Stanford
is going to be on. He's also going to be talking about an amazing
discovery that he made at the NASA Goddard Space Center, which I was fortunate
enough to actually go down there and see kind of not exactly this discovery,
but other discoveries he made and yes, dinosaurs were walking around at Goddard Space
Center, which I think is really something pretty amazing. We're gonna be talking
about that. He is now known around the world for this. Actually as
uh you know, he's an amazing amateur paleontologist. He has. His discovery
is beyond anything that people have found as far as dinosaur tracks go, mammal
tracks and dinosaurs tracks together. Anyway, we'll be talking about that the latter
part of the show. First part of the show, we're going to be
discussing UFOs, his detection system that he had many years ago, what he
found, and then also about a disks. You're not going to believe the
way they look exactly like a flying saucer. So we're going to have images
people watching on YouTube, We're going to have images come up on that so
you can see what we're talking about. And I want to thank everyone that
supports the show. We absolutely could not do it without you. Thanks so
much. Anyone can help out, doesn't matter where you listen. All you
have to do is check out podcast ufo dot com all the informations there.
We have occasional blogs. We have one a couple of weeks old and so
always welcome guest blogs if anyone's interested in doing that. And I know I
have a good feeling I know one of the stories I'll Hondrow is going to
be talking about, because never in the time that I've been doing the show
have I received so many emails about a citing that came up. I hope
he's giving a lot of email too. Alajndro, welcome to yees. Oh
hey, hey, how's it going good? Good? So I would guests
that you're getting a lot of email about this Irish flight commercial flight sighting all
those planes that saw that sighting He and Irish Commercial What No, I'm kidding.
Yes, that is exactly the story I was going to talk about,
because it is all over the place in big news and it sounds like a
great case. So the site that I feel has covered it very well,
concisely and thoroughly and has always done a great job as the drive the war
Zone section written by Tyler rogue Away. So it's a great article. You
can find links to this, especially if you go to the open minds UFO
news forum on Facebook. You'll be able to see a lot of people talking
about it and some of the information but it's a really cool case like some
of the other ones that the Drive has posted, and you know, I
should add this because this is important to drive fields more or like it's okay
even though there are a credible defense website. Ever since the New York Times
article talking about the d D having a UFO investigation organization, they feel more
able and like it's okay to write about UFO stories. So they have been
from an aviation aerospace sort of perspective which is really interesting and thorough, and
so in their article they talk about these multiple witnesses, all pilots in Ireland
who saw this object. It was pre dawn on November ninth, so very
recently, about forty five minutes before the sunrise, multiple UFOs being seen.
The IA, which is the Irish Aviation Authority, said that following reports from
a small number of aircraft on Friday, November ninth of unusual air activity,
there was a report filed. This report will be investigated under the normal confidential
a current investigation process, so they are not going to be sharing. Who
knows if they'll show the results or even sure they'll say something. But fortunately
somehow the audio of many of these pilots has become available so you can listen
to that. I know they've got it right here on the drive, but
it's really interesting. So one plane said that they weren't showing anything on the
radar, but they saw something moving extremely fast. It was described as a
very bright light. They said it rapidly. It flew alongside the left side
seven eighty seven before it quote rapidly veered to the north and then disappeared at
very high speed. Another pilot of a Atlantic Boeing seven forty seven said that
there were multiple objects following the same trajectory and that they were moving at extremely
high speeds. Then the other pilot kind of chimed into sound I'm glad it
wasn't just me, And then another one said that they also saw these objects
and that they were moving very fastly. In fact, their quote was that
they were moving the speed they were moving was astronomical, that it was something
like mocked two. So yeah, very interesting sighting. Another really good one
where pilots got involved again. They said that there didn't seem to be any
fear of collision or that they didn't there was no aggressive maneuvering or behavior by
these objects. Almost like they were coming in either taking a look or letting
themselves be seen, and then zooming off at a very fast speed, kind
of like what we saw in two thousand and four in San Diego with the
Nimits, the tictak UFOs, or even in nineteen fifty two with Washington,
DC, or in Chili and in many other countries the same sort of kind
of flying inch demonstration of this extreme technology and speed cruising off at very fast
rate. So yeah, great sighting. I'm wondering, you know, I
mean, every pilot now probably has their They're probably texting half the time because
they have it on autopilot. I'm surprised that are maybe they did, maybe
someone try to snap a picture. Did you hear anything about that or read
anything about No, I've heard nothing of any pictures being taken. And I
mean, you know, I just got off a long flight from Baltimore,
and you know, it's really difficult to take pictures of, especially a bright
light off in the distance from the ground, even if you're closer from an
airplane. So pictures are really difficult unless you have a great camera kind of
like the one I'm using now. It's set up and ready with a long
lens, then it's going to be really hard if it's not a professional.
Now, infrared is something different, but of course commercial airlines don't carry an
infrared radar where they're looking for things in the sky. So yeah, no
information on that. And I did want to add one more update. The
Drive did reach out to the Irish government for the Irish Defense Forces in particular
for answers. They had a number of questions but they got one simple response,
which was the Defense Forces do not disclose their operational procedures for operational security
reasons. This incident is a matter for the Irish Aviation Authority, so essentially
they're not going to say anything and they're going to leave it up to their
IAA to conduct the investigation and who knows if they'll have a response or not.
Wow. Now and in a case like this, I've just noticed that
it seems like it's this has gone viral when I don't think you know,
you mentioned earlier that you know, Pete that the guy from the war whatever
it is, they're the one that wrote the story the war zone on the
war Zone, right, he felt more comfortable writing about it since you know,
the December sixteenth, you know story in the New York Times, and
I think that's I think that's having an effect across support in this because the
Washington Post, I mean all, I can't get you to a special screening
on Thursday. So just a couple of days from now where you can watch
the first couple episodes of the blue Book project Project blue Book, but email
Alejandro or contact at open Mind stat TV and I can send you information on
that. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, free popcorn and pop too.
This is being put on by the publishers they're doing. I'm going to be
doing a panel during one of these events, and others will at others.
So I'm only able. I'm only in contact with the people doing a Las
Vegas and Phoenix one, so I can get people into that one for free,
and but keep an eye out for other events like this going on.
Yeah, I know. Sam Moronto sent out a notice so cool. Yeah
that if that's in the Chicago area. So that's going on, and he's
fairly easy. I think he's fairly easy to find out. I don't know
if I think so. I think he's on Facebook at least, so you
could touch around Facebook. Excellent. So we are we're running a little bit
on time, but I want you to talk about what you did last weekend
if you have kind of us sure. Yeah. I was at alien Con.
I guess to try to get through quickly. We were selling stuff,
so we had a UFO Congress booth and I'm wearing the hat kind of because
my hair is ms, but also it's a cool hat, um, but
right over my shoulder here. This was a big hit. What we're selling
at the table, This hovering UFO that levitates this lamp that's also a Bluetooth
speaker, and we've got those up on the store now, but they're super
cool. So besides that, I had several talks and a panel with Richard
dolan Um, Stephen Bassett, and Jason McClellan, where we talked about disclosure
and post disclosure. Mostly took a lot of questions from the audience. The
History Channel had a big presence there promoting their television show, and you know,
it was there was a lot of people, not as many as Pasadena,
but that's Pasadena was madness here. There were a lot of people,
a whole lot of people with pack but still so it was a lot of
fun. One of the highlights for me was one of my talks was about
Spielberg, and of course Jallen Heinek had a big part of Close Encounters.
He was the guy who you know, inspired Spielberg and gave him the case
information. And I talked a lot about Heineck because he's so important and I
think he's so cool and a very important person to talk about in that he
went in as a skeptic, came out a believer and really started civilian UFO
investigations, any helped the Air Force do investigations. But after my talk,
this gentleman came up and introduced himself. It was Paul Heineck, Jallen Heineck's
son. Yes, I was so thrilled, and he was saying, thank
you for all the kind things that you said about my father. I'd love
to sing in contact. And of course I said, well would you mind
coming on my podcast? And he said yes. So finally I'm able to
get to someone before you do. And I will have Paul Heineck on the
podcast soon. Isn't that great? Does he look anything like his dad?
Not really? Of course his dad always had a beard and a pipe.
But you know, he's got a he had a jacket on a very professional,
tall, slender guy, and I looked him up and he's a professor,
an associate professor at Pepperdine along with a number of starting up companies.
He's a very you know, a successful businessman and so an impressive person.
So that was the thrill of the conference. Besides, I tell you more
about this later since we're running on. We had a booth next to us
that was selling meteorites, and you can see online. I videotaped a piece
of Mars, but they gave me a little meteorite, so I'll show you
guys that. Yeah, sometimes in your watch or something. Did I hear
about your something about your watch? No, that was someone else's. That
was these guys. The owner of that company. He's an expert in this.
He has a slice of Mars as the face of his watch. Amazing,
one of a kind item, probably worth at least tens of thousands of
dollars. A chunk of Mars that I held was worth over forty thousand dollars.
Now this is explained that because people know it didn't come back from Mars.
So this was a media write dead landed right did come back? Right?
So it's a meteorite. Yeah, So that's essentially what they deal in
our meteorites, and that's where this comes from. Because some people are like,
what do you mean somebody went to Mars and brought it back. No,
it's it's a meteorite. So that's how we you know, Fortunately,
and I don't believe there's a whole lot of them, but chunks that have
been dislodged from Mars, probably from asteroid strikes and things like that, and
even I think volcanic activity can push objects into the atmosphere high enough work can
escape the gravity of the planet and then float around for probably hundreds of thousands,
maybe millions of years before eventually landing on our planet. And then through
testing very similar to the type that we talked about with Chris Cogswell, we're
able to show in fact, you know that it kind of demonstrates that one
of the things I was thinking of the criteria of proving something is from an
et civilization, because that watch we just talked about is technology. It is
from space, but it's not a technology that we're not aware of, so
we know this is something that's human built. So that third threshold would have
to be met, which is that you know, it's this space material being
transformed into something used a technology we don't know, but it's a demonstration how
his watch meet two of those three criteria and why it's so important that those
three criteria be met before we call something, you know, at technology.
Someone just asked in the chat room, did you recently meet with Robert Bigelow?
I did not. I wish I had, but I just wanted to
clear that up. They're just wondering if you had. And then another thing
in the chat right, well, go ahead, finished that. I was
just gonna say that part might have come from because I did go to a
friends and family event where Jeremy Cortbell showed us his movie that the Skinwalker movie
very exciting. We'll have news up tomorrow or two about his new movie.
But we talked about how there were a lot of people there and we couldn't
disclose all the people there, so people might have assumed Bigelow there was there,
but unfortunately he was not. Oh okay, And someone also wrote on
there the story that you were discussing earlier about the you know UFO. They're
saying that an Irish astronomer claims that it was a meteor, and I wondered
if you heard anything about that, and if there was any validity or possible
validity to that. I haven't heard a bit about that, but um,
you know a lot of people are pointing out that what was described does not
seem to fit what this person was saying. However, you know, depending
on angles, a meteor I can look strange. I mean, especially in
a plane if it's running somewhat parallel to you, which happens at times because
they're up in the air. It's I guess it's not something we can rule
out yet, But thus far I've seen a lot of people saying it's not
fitting all of the check marks of what was witness But would a lot more
has to go into it. Yeah. Would you see a meteor during the
day, I mean, I guess it's possible if it's bright enough. Yeah,
I think you can. You can see it in Italy, but trail
because you know it's on fire and it's cruising along. Typically these things,
when they're falling apart, there will be pieces of it that will flare,
So the brightness you'll see as various different flares of different I think you witnessed
something like that where it's kind of more of a flickering where it gets super
bright than it gets less brightened until it dims completely out as those pieces at
luminess or make the brightness burn off. Another thing, it should be earth
bound two, I mean, not like a level path. Well, it
should be earth bound. But when you're in the air, and some of
these things can come in at a very slight angle where it will look and
if you're on a plane, you know it's difficult. The angles get very
strange. So it's possible something that is actually coming down looks level and there
have been and I think we can probably find them planes getting pictures of these
things looking like their level to them, but they actually are, you know,
being pulled him by the gravity. Interesting. Well, we went a
little long, Sorry about that. So anyway, thanks, thanks so much.
Yeah, thank you, and we'll be talking next week. All right,
all right, talk, all right, take care, all right.
I apologize for going a little bit long. That was really interesting. I
wanted to talk about that possible meteorum part of that. So Ray Stanford,
our guest, he's been on a number of times. I've visited him a
number of years ago, did a show down there. I saw some amazing
things. I consider Ray a good friend and we are in touch all the
time and it's my pleasure to have him on. Ray Welcome to the show.
Oh great to be here, Morton. Yeah, it's been it's been
a little while since you've been on. I think it's been a few years.
I mean, you got involved in this dinosaur tracking that just kind of
consumed you completely, well at a certainly time consuming when you're first you make
a discovery and it takes months to realize everything is there, and then you
have to take you've a longer time writing it up in a careful way for
a scientific paper. Yeah, and you did all that, and we will
talk more about that in the second part of the show or the last the
last part of the show. But I just just wanted to say that's the
reason you haven't been on in a couple of years. You've and you know,
you've been on National Geographic has been to your house. All kinds of
things have happened, You've spoken at Guarded Space Center and all that. All
fascinating, all fascinating things. But we were going to talk when I visited
you, I couldn't believe the collection you had, and some of the the
the discs that you had stone discs that look exactly like a flying saucer that
are from ancient mounds. So I'd like to talk a little bit about that.
But before we get into that subject, in particular for the person that
the first time hearing you on this show, we do have a lot of
new listeners, and we're also over on KGr A Radio with some new listeners.
I'd like for you to fill them in on your background and what got
you fascinated in the topic to begin with, Well, it's hard to say
what got me fascinated, Just to mention of something that people can't explain,
flying around and doing strange things. I can't get anybody that is any way
analytical, even as a child as I was in nineteen forty seven, I
guess I was nine years old and I couldn't stay away from it. It
just fascinates me. I don't know what got into me. I skinny,
little nine year old kid jumped off of a swing in the grade school yard
and went over to the principal's wife and said, missus Shelton, when I
grow up, I'm going to try to find out what the flying saucers are,
and when I do, I'm going to tell the whole world. So
she stomped off like a madman who just talked to her, or a mad
kid, And I don't know, it catches an interest, and I just
I did though after well, in my teens, as teens sometimes are impulsive,
I got taken in by the hoaxes of Georgia Damski and the the contact
he crowd, but and interpreted some wonderful, well documented, well witnessed sightings
that we had in a in a vein that I considered to be now subjective,
I'm made up. There's a lot of strange things that happened to you
if you have a close encounter, at least in my experience, and sometimes
when you're in experience and highly excitable as a teenager, you can kind of
misinterpret it. I mean, we felt like somehow they were reading our minds
and causing us to show up and see these things. And I don't any
longer think that's the case. I think I have better explanations part, but
it got after I wised up to a Damski and exposed the evidence I had
that that his photographs and stories were hopxesn't exposed. Daniel wa another contact team,
I decided the way to go, the only way to go, was
to try to use cameras and electronic instruments to get some kind of data that
would be meaningful to mainstream science, that would speak to physicists and real hard
data for hard scientists. Will say, and it took me a long time
to arrange. Finally the funding far that, But by nineteen the early seventies,
I began to working with a nonprofit corporation bring in contributions that eventually built
a system of tracking these things optically electronically. It was a total of equipment
facilities back then it was about somewhat over two million dollars. Now that would
be, of course the order. I guess it's thirty or forty million dollars.
But we succeeded in using this equipment in the field. The first time
he really got a great success was when he had a tip from a government
scientist the White Sands that they were being plagued, and we snooped around there
on the outskirts of White But I don't want to get into that too much
because I'd like to talk about something else that surprised me related to UFOs,
but but ancient. And I guess you know what I'm talking about this point,
Martin. Yeah. Yeah, just to let you know, Ray,
we got about a couple of minutes here before we go into our first break,
so I may have to interrupt you if if it comes to that.
But yes, I saw your collection at your house and it's fascinating, and
yeah, I'd like for you to talk about that, okay. Well,
I had gotten interested in Indian artifacts back when my dad worked in an oil
field and was bringing home Indian mariads, and I began to study them,
become fascinated, and eventually I began to collect other types of Indian artifacts.
Well. Then back in the nineteen eighties, the letter part of the nineteen
eighties, I had gone to several Indian artifact auctions and see if the catalog
from an auction called the Old Barn Auction and Philly Ohio and uh there was
a picture of a thing that looked just like a domed disc with spots around
his dome and h and flange. And I said, oh, my gosh.
And I looked at the text Malone, he said him Indian hematite disc
and it said that it had an exclamation mark. This looks like a UFO.
So I called the owner of the auction house and I said, look,
I want to buy that. He said, I can't sell it to
you. It's already in the catalog. And this was a hard copy catalog.
It was back in the days of internet auctions. And he said,
but you know, he said, these came out of a collection from back
the turn of the nineteenth and the early part of the twenty century. Uh
an old guy back in uh in Hancock County, Illinois, I had collected
a bunch of Indian artifacts and when he died, his family stored these things.
And recently they decided, well, maybe these are worth something, and
they brought them into him and he said it was astonishing. Here was two
disks, but just like they were flying saucers, and they've been dug up
way back there before we ever heard of Kenneth Arnold and his siding descriptions of
disc by other people. And so what I did, He said that,
you know, there's one in the catalog. I've got one year on my
desk, and he said, it astonishes people come in. People come in
and accuse me of being some kind of a UFO nut having this model of
a UFO in my desk, and I explained to him, wait, I
wasn't responseil for that, and Indian made it maybe two thousand years ago,
and so I said, look, I want to buy that one, and
I did, and eventually I also bought from the guy that got the other
one at auction, I got another one and the one we were seeing on
the screen now, actually I was the last one of the most disc like
type that I got, and that's from Illinois, but from further to the
south western part of the state of Illinois. And I don't know if the
Mahadric called the actual size of it, but it's between three and four inches
in diameter, and it looks the part. And I have no explanation of
what they were trying to represent unless we make the presumption that an Indian not
having a camera, saw something that impressed him a lot, and he said,
I'll make it out of stone and show my buddies what I saw.
But that we don't know. Here's here's two more, three more. Actually
these were the early ones that the two you have top and bottom on the
left, and the blue green and the red. Now those were the ones
from from over in western Illinois, and you can see the size them and
everything there. And one of them was the one that was in the auction.
It was the one that I bought, and they haven't old. One
of them has the old sticker down the bottom right. You see you can't
read it there, but it says Piedric Collection and Hancock County, Illinois,
and that was the old collection that it was in. The one on the
right is even more romatic and larger, and it was found a little further
east on the Illinois River. And we go to the next slide, we
might be able to to see. I don't know if you can get that
up, but that was found while they were clearing trees in nineteen twenty one
spring on the east bank of the Illinois River in Havana, Illinois. At
the time, there was a rise there there. You see on the left
of where it was the red line that goes and then down it shows Havannah
and it points up to it. And this thing was It was found when
they were digging up trees and the roots pulled this thing up. But they
didn't realize there was a mound there. At that time, the mound there
was only about twelve feet high, but it's about an acre in size,
and it's it's now been of course, both carbon dated about two thousand years
old plus or minus two hundred and thirty maybe or so on either side of
two thousand years ago. And interestingly, also that same site they found twenty
two beads made out of nickel iron meteorite. Two of them are locally here
in the in the Smithsonian. And I mean, this is enough to just
bog on my mind. I mean I realized that these have an excellent collection
background. I have the whole collection background that the disc number three up there
in the upper right of who owned it across time. And I just mentioned
that the dealer new reminders and UFOs and he was interested in his wife,
and I believe he daught at Wins because they had seen something remarkable in their
backyard at close range, about twenty feet in diameter. And he said,
I said, have you ever come across another one of these things? He
said, well, I know the old guy that has one, but he
didn't want to part with it. Well, they took him oh at least
two, three, maybe four years to talk him into selling it, but
finally he sold it, and I bought it from the Delian Artifacts with the
very good background information. And so I've just been thrilled to have these.
And there was the one more that we showed first in the introductor slide there
that that makes four of the ones that look just like what the world today
thinks of as the Flying Saucer UFO. I guess in this break we have
just three minutes that goes really fast. And I blabbed a little too much.
I wanted to know if you can tell the listening audience how you basically
ended up so close to Goddard Space Center. Well, I went through a
divorce my former marriage and came up here and ultimately married a wonderful lady named
Sheila, and she was working at Goddard Space Flight Center. Eventually she became
the contracting ulficer of technical representative over the entire equipment and facilities servicing of the
last three huple of space telescope servicing missions. And she had a big commendation
from the government for that work. And she was very interested had been interested
in UFOs for years and any we've been we've been married about thirty two,
I guess years now, and that brought me because we were only three miles
from Gadder Space Flight Center, and so I was frequently over there. And
one day I was there, I picked her up for lunch and dropped her
back off and was passing through a parking lot and I saw a rock sticking
out of the grass, and and the story is history now that I went
over there and there was the beginning of what has been declared to be the
most important discovery of showing interaction of mammals and dinosaurs. It's it's ever been
found, and it was right there at Gadder Space Flight Center. I can't
believe. Well, first of all, just say, we'll get into that
the second part of the show more. And well, I actually want you
to bring that up again. I don't understand how anyone would notice the rock
sticking up in the grass, first of all. And then second of all,
you know they all the excavation they did there, with all the buildings
you showed me around there when when I visited, and you know, all
the buildings there, all the parking lots, there's probably a lot more there
that was either destroyed or covered over. But it's just was this near I'm
thinking near a possibly an ancient river bed or something. How No, it
was in a deltaic floodplain about one hundred and ten million years ago that frequently
flooded, and in fact, we've found a lot of evidence. I have
found two the fossils of baby notice ours that apparently drowned and probably one of
these floods there were. We know they're instar because so many baby tracks,
the eggs disintegrape because of the high acid in this rather swampy environment. But
it was a wonderful place for life if you didn't get drowned in a flood,
if you were a dinosaur or a mammo back in that time. So
yeah, we'll talk about that in the second part of the show more.
But also I know you had a sighting right there. We can talk at
Gardard or right near Dard. I remember you're telling me you were driving over
that way. So we'll we'll be getting back to the show here in just
a second. Here, all right, welcome back. My guest is Ray
Stanford. And during the break we spoke a little bit about the area that
it lives in. We're gonna be talking more about that later, but we
when we were wrapping up, we're ready. I still want to talk more
about these disks and what the possible use was for them. But the question
on that ray have they found any of these in other areas or is it
only in this particular area. The disc that look like what we think is
the UFO looks like they have been found only in uh in Havana, Illinois,
and in Hancock County, Illinois out of west of there, and there's
one down to the south lest of they're the first one that we showed earlier.
But if we can go in and look at some of the picture,
He's plaint a little more about them. But it that it looks like here's
the hot pots. When I found these things, I said, I wonder
if these were the first things that that we that they made and they and
what I found out is I didn't have a confirmation with time. I thought,
maybe you know the Indians that they feel like if you make an effigy
of something, it takes on to some extent. Many of them feel the
properties such as the Katina dolls out west months of Hope. But if you
look at this picture on the left, you see these distances become more and
more or less like we typically think of a UFO, and more and more
practical around it. Edges Well, I believed I had pothicized that the original
ones, which would have been view of course, were in response to observation
or at least visual, if not intellectual, contact with the objects and or
their occupants, and that it became something that they transferred into a game,
even as the minds begin to have a ball game that they say is somehow
related to the motion of planets. I'm not sure that if that's the white
man's interpretation or really the mind interpretation. But in this case I had no
evidence that these were the old is. But as it happened, years later,
after I had gotten these optics, there came out of scientific publication with
information on the carbon dating of the one there you see on the left,
and it would place it right around two thousand either plus or minus two thousand
years before the present time. But as we get closer to the present time,
they got these more rounded ages. Well, the Indians had a game.
When the white man came, they looked the disc there reason it looked
more like the one on the far right. In fact, it was at
that time and they had a game that they called chunky, and you could
you would roll a disk and throw a sphere that looked for all the world
like a mothership, and if they came close to each other, that gave
points to the person. I guess they did the throwing and the rolling of
the disk. And the interesting thing is that the Indians were while about this.
The white men didn't like it. They went for a different kind of
Indian game. But the Indians were big on betting on this. They bet
none of their low and call they sometimes who bet their wives, it was
said, And it was probably training them, though intuitively, to by judging
the speed of the disk and throwing the what you know, let's look at
this today. In the reports of UFOs, we hear of these long,
very narrow cigar stretched out cigar type things that we might call the mothership in
our interpretation. And you've got the disc that supposedly go to and from them.
Well, in this game, you've got a thing to shape like the
mother's ship, and you've got the disc that they were rolling on the ground,
and the points the greater parts were game by the closer that they stopped
to one another. Both latterly and distantly, so it could be taken as
a UFO mothership docking kind of game they called chunky, and we can't prove
that, but it's an hypothesis that tends to be confirmed in my mind at
least a little bit by the fact that determinous age the fourth the two thousand
year old age of the ones that looked most like UFOs, and as you
get more and more towards the White Man's coming, they change. Here's a
map that you see over on the left where disc one and two were found.
Those stood above, and then the four right corner Disc three. It's
interesting to write up there beyond it is the Glassford impact structor. That's where
a piece of an asteroid hit back along long time ago before the Indian's time.
But I begin to ask myself, why would these UFOs have been spending
a lot of time. I don't have any idea. Maybe they were staying
to people, but maybe they were also looking at the impact history. If
we can move on to the next slide, there's I don't know, you
have the next slide that can come up conveniently, but it's it's quite interesting
when you look at that area of the country that has the greatest concentration of
impact structures. There we see in the map at the lower left, inside
the green circle, that's the area where these kinds of disc are found.
And then if we go into the next slide, I'll compare it to something
else that might be another reason why the UFOs would be studying that area.
I'm not sure how it is to get back to me into the next slide,
but what it shows is, okay, it up or right. This
is a new Madrid fault. That's an earthquake causing fault, and the most
intense areas in the red, but it goes all the way over into the
yellow areas and it Now, let's go one more slide and compare that to
the area where most of the hematite disc and other hematite objects were made by
the Indians. And it's quite fascinating if we can get over there. I
realize that there seemed to be some problem navigating there. We go. No,
it's not rageous to let you know. There's a thirty second delay on
YouTube. Okay, thirty seconds, Okay, doing it in immediately, but
it takes thirty seconds. Okay, good, Okay, I got it,
And Anyway, this thing you see in white and red that was that was
published years ago in a book by Warren K. Moorehead called Hematite Implements of
the United States. Isn't it fascinating how the whole pattern, both the white
one with the line around it and the red one echo the New Madrid fault
effects. Well, that is easy perhaps to understand geologically, because if you're
having faulting in that area, you're also altering the course of not only surface
waters but underground waters. And hematite is usually is often formed in aquatic situation
where the minimals are carried and the iron oxide grows in various crystalline forms,
several different colors depending on the crystalline form, but so it's not mysterious that
they take on the same form. But keep in mind that this could be
an area that was of interest because this is a major earthquake fault is not
compared to the sign area south west, but it's said that there have been
felt earthquakes in this even over here in the west in DC Maryland area some
time ago. So let's move on now, and I will I'm gonna have
to see the next slide version. Remember coming us in but it's coming up.
I understand. And here we go. Now this one was from the
Ford Action culture and it's small. It's only one point six three inches in
or five whatever that says in diameter. But it almost looks like a disc
with construction panels. And by the way, don't let anybody fool you.
You'll hear these stories, fictional stories that oh man, these disks. When
you see them they have no construction panel or nothing. Well, you're seeing
them plasma covered, as I've learned in my study with instruments. Yeah,
you want to see the panels, but if the plasma is off, you
will see panels. I knew an Indian that ran the Taos Indian Horse Ranch
in Taos, New Mexico, and his wife, and he was telling me
about how one Indian summer he took a group of tourists up by horseback up
into near the area of their sacred mountain there and a whole group, in
broad daylight of disk passed home. He said, ray, if I'd had
a rock, if I hadn't the guts to do it, I could have
hit them with a rock. They passed so close to us, And he
said, you could actually see panels that look like units of construction that they
were made of. So anyway, let's take a look at this and maybe
that's the stretch of the imagnation that this represents a UFO, But when we
go to the next slide, it may not be such a stretch of imagination.
We can get some curtains here. Just one thing, we have to
make sure that we kind of explain things because a lot of people are listening
to the show. The majority of the people listening to the show YouTube's.
It's a small small audience, so we have to kind of explain what I
mean. It's a great visual and just to let the listener know on podcasts
UFO that listens to the podcast or over at KGr A Radio and the dark
Matter Digital Network, the radio stations at play this show that I will get
something up on my website in the show notes if you want to take a
look over there at podcasts. Well, I invite people to read what I've
written on the slides here, and there's nothing really complicated to understand. This
is a disk that's quite small too, in an eight inch in diameter A
found years ago and it was found in southern Ohio in the Forward ancient culture
area, and it sure looks like ladders. The interesting thing to me is,
having studied the physics of these objects, is that when you have a
dipolar magnetic feeling, when we have actual films, this hythm of data due
to plasma being circulating, the magnetic field going gas circulating. If you wanted
to go in and the thing you're still hovering above the ground by the use
of this energy, you'd want to go in the place of minimal magnetic strength
or zero magnetic strength. You'd want to go in through the center like that,
and you'd also want to open your landing gear otherwise it would cause some
problems that won't get into But this certainly looks like somebody might be illustrating the
way they left and went into a disk. We can't prove it, but
I can't think of any other explanation. And keep in mind that this was
the Ford Ancient culture. People might say, well, that wasn't a kiva,
an underground round ceremonial structure that they have on Arizonia, Mexico. The
problem with that hypothesis is that Kiva's did not exist in that part of the
world. In Ohio and northwestern Kentucky and a few adjacent areas. They simply
did not exist. Excavation has ever turned up any evidence that it was a
Kiva culture or that Kiva's existed, So I think we can dismiss the idea
that it represents that. But it sure looks like the way somebody might be.
And I had this for several years, and just the other day I
came across another disc with the ladders, and we can take a look at
that when we get over there. It was made of a different material.
This is a sandstone, compact sciendstone, but the other one is a semi
translucent kind of a greenish stone. That interesting. It has a preasable magnetic
component to it. Here it is, and if you'll look there, going
down toward four o'clock, it's a narrow looking ladder, but look at the
one on the left. It looked much brighter, as if the person drawing
those in there wanted to show perspective. Well, what that would suggest is
he's saying, well, it was really not right there at us, It
was up above us. So the ladder looks big close up and get smaller
with distance. I'm not saying that's what it was, but that's my interpretation
of it. Must look at another picture that I just shot one another angle
on it so that you can see the Some people might see these a little
better in the next slide. But I'm saying actually that this is magnetic too.
Yeah, it's magnetic, not strongly magnetic, but it's very appreciably magnetic.
It surprised me, and let me mention that all those beautiful disc or
is saying made of hematite, they must have some magnetite in them, because
they are very appreciably magnetic, some of them stronger than others, which is
interesting. But here again we see these ladders going into the central place,
which, by the way, I could do some of it. To me,
the most credible UFO cases where occupants were seen ce threes is Honeywood.
Is that closing colors of the third kind describe occupants going in and out of
the middle of the craft. In one case they are very credible, with
some children in. I think it was in France. The occupants, these
small itcumants floated up in the air and went down into the middle center of
the auditors, which will be the top of a magnetic van. If you
want to presume, based on the evidence that I've recorded, that there is
a two pole magnetic field around this object that is moving plasma for atmospheric action
and support. Wow. Yeah interesting. So again, just to let the
listener know that these images, I'm going to try to figure out how this
is actually what is it called a slide presentation PowerPoint. I'm going to try
to figure out how to get this up on my website so everybody can enjoy
these and takenly, great, there's so interesting. Ray, how many when
I was at your house, I mean it was looking all around at your
dinosaur tracks everywhere, but you were able to amass a good collection of these.
Well, there are only four of the ones that look most like this,
and then you get the gradients such as I showed in that time frame
thing. Well, I god, I didn't know show nearly all of them,
but I collected. Of course, these dishapelines are very rare. I
only know of two genuine ones of that that are left out that I like
to get into my as I call it, my Hemitie ufl Anger and the
rest of them are transitional toward the more practical aspects of the game, which
I take as being a Ufo mothership symbolically manifested darking game from the Indians seeing
these things go up to an elongated thing in the sky, and otherwise it's
a very very strange game to figure why somebody would ever come up with such
a thing that, in fact is so odd that it had no appeal to
the white man at all. But here's here's some of them on the table
the u and you see the one there with the ladders. You can compare
the size to the two brown ones with the little odd figure, which is
actually from the Changkai culture of Peru. Those are the ones from western Illinois.
The beautiful one on the left of dark brown one. Uh. That
one is from a central there on the Illinois River at Havannah on the east
side, found in nineteen twenty one. I go back and say that those
two bound ones were found either in the latter part of the nineteenth century or
the very first part before Piedre died. Of the twentieth century. You can
see different sizes of the desk, and you'll notice around some of these have
much rounder edges. And there's one down there at the four o'clock position that
is actually cone shape that does have a convex bottom. It's a very high,
great hard hemitide, very dense hemitide. And believe or not, there's
been a UFO film by some physicists that I think we're going to see in
a bit here that was shaped just like that. It was a movie film,
sixteen millimeire movie film that was taken by two physicists at Oaki's National Laboratory
back I think in the sixties or early seventies. I could get to date.
Wow, so we can move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we're taking a break in just about two minutes or so, just to let
you know. And during the two minutes, the people on YouTube are going
to get a video that we're going to be showing of your exploration down in
uh um at Goddard that's coming up in a little bit, so uh and
we just have about about a minute and a half before we go to break.
So um, did you have you actually seen any of these like in
a museum or any you know, any any other type of collections. Well,
yes, oh the uh Now, of course there's a collection he's came
out of and and but there are there are people who have disc none of
them. I don't know well, I only know of two other sources that
have the UFO like ones. One of them is now owned by a farmer
that is about ninety years old, and he got it from another elderly farmer
out in Illinois. And I'm waiting to get it because it is a it
is a spectacor disc too, but it was also dug up just a long
long time ago. And but these are the few the This is where the
disc thing started out, and I think the idea of the game, but
the game became contagious, just like soccer has taken over the US in recent
years. The verse, there were the Hope Wells and then the Mississippians took
it up and Kahokia down there that has the biggest structure by Indians in North
America, their biggest mound there. They took up this game big time.
They had the whole Kahokia side had a big, huge central field for playing
this game of Chunky. And as it turns out, some anthropologists have theorized
that in fact, this caused the spread of the ki Kahokeo Empire because they
got people involved with the game. Man As they became involved in the game
and got to know each other, they took on board the traits and the
culture, and thus the empire spread. We don't know but that it makes
pretty good reasoning to me. What we do know is that chunk this game
became an obsession. How about that? Okay, so we're ready to go
to break um. All right, We're on with Ray Stanford and we'll be
right back right after these messages. So do you think would you consider someone
was saying that you probably have one of the best collections outside of a museum
of these chukka whatever they are stones, would you say that's possible? Well,
not of the discs totally. There's somebody have more of the disc but
I have I have most of the UFO like ones. There are, as
I said, there's two that a note for sure that I've that I've seen
one of my head in my hand that are out there that I haven't been
able to acquire yet. But you know these were the like the first photo
somebody got at the UFO, this is the Indians photo. Who might say,
I think if I'm interpreting it correctly, of what she or he observed
and then laboriously made imagine making this out of himatite which has a tremendous hardness.
Just to work with it is the challenge. Yeah, they did they
make any stone tools out of that? Yes, there are. There are
quite a few little cells used in splitting wood that they made out of it,
and there are also some other fancier objects that are made out of hematite.
It was beloved material, but you don't see as many as the hematite
collectors would like to see because it was just hard to work with. And
there are various grades of hematite. And the Indians liked hematite so much that
they what they found out something that most people don't know. But they would
take lamanite, which is a hydrated iron oxide, which hematite is, and
they would fire it and make it hard on the outside, lose its water
and it would make it hard and hematite on the outside. But I have
objects that show Brogan opened that the lamanite that they discovered this process that you
could dehydrate the lamanite and turn it in the hematite. So you would have
to give the Indiane some credit for a little bit of petrochemistry there were college.
All right, welcome back. My guest is Ray Stanford, and we've
been talking ancient artifacts that sure, look a heck of a lot, like
what they call a flying saucer. Any triangle ones that wouldn't really work.
It was game right now. The Yeah, in fact, I did find
two. I was coming back from an in artifact auction in Ohio, and
I was in West Virginia and I stopped by one of these brand new store
that they were selling various kinds of frozen yogurt, and there was a big
cliff over to the side of the property adjacent to it, and I went
over there and old there had washed out of the cliff and fallen down below
two black stone objects that were rounded, just like a matter of fact,
just very much like one of the triangular UFOs that I filmed from an airline
at third nine thousand feet seventy seven. I'm not saying those were UFO effigies,
but I have no explanation of what they were. I still have one
of them. Somebody, I think, but on them in the pocket and
walked out of my living room with it. But the other one I still
have, and it does look like what I found, except what I filmed
had more details in this day, Yeah, how about that? So Ray,
I don't know, you know, we got an hour left here,
we can we can go into your into the dinosaur. I know it's it's
off the UFO topic, UM, but I do uh. I do mention
that on my show occasionally about once a month or so, I do go
off topic, and this this is kind of the show for that. Um
So, but before we we go into that, UM, just one thing
I would like to talk about the UFO subject. You have seen? Uh.
I know I asked you before and you never really gave me an answer,
But you have seen more UFOs than anyone I've I've known. Um,
you have filmed many many UFOs, and I guess the question I have for
you is why do you think that you have all these sightings? I mean,
okay, let me put that in a context. I've also found more
dinosaur tracks than anyone in the Eastern United States. Four tracks of the flying
reptals terrastaurs or terra dactyl people call them. Because I'm looking for them.
I've trained myself to know how to look and to properly evaluate what I'm looking
at. And that's the clue. Now, when you carry, as I
did for thirty years, a heavy camera with a big glass lens on your
shoulder, giving you a netcache off, and you ask yourself, why the
heck am I doing this? Well, you keep looking at the sky to
try to make it work well and hope you see something, And that is
what I did. But let me mention that the films I've been talking about
most everyone has multiple witnesses, including excellent witnesses, and in other cases not
only the films, but electronic and gravitational magnetic measurements simultaneously in broad daylight ray.
You know, I remember when we were discussing some of your some of
your sightings, at least a couple of them, and probably more. But
I just remember you mentioning this that you had a feeling first. And I
want to tell you also that I've had other people and I'm not I know
you listened to the show a lot of the time, but I've had people
on the show that have told me exactly the same thing. And can you
describe what that feeling is? Well? Yes, the now, let me
say that back in my teens, when I was a believer in Geord Danskins
those words, I was able to get that feeling for sighting, and I
thought it was a telepathic message. I don't believe that any longer. We
got a tip from a gun of scientist to White SAMs in July of nineteen
seventy eight that if his sister had seen me on the Philadelic Hue Show with
Heinick, and she called and said, my gosh, my brother, who
he was a physical scientist out there, says that if you've got that equipment,
you better get out there and sneak around the periphery because we're being plagued
by them and have a directive to get any kind of evidence that we can
get on this that we are capable of getting. And we went out there
and we got spectator results. But what happened is on the way out there,
our financed era was with us, the guy that put huge money into
this wonderful guy, and he was in along with us with my wife and
me in our eight week old baby. And after we had a siting,
I comment, I said, you know, I felt that before it happened,
and they said that they did too, and to later on they experienced
this same feeling before the objects showed up. But what we found out during
that event we recorded the extreme low frequency of magnetism emitted by these objects that
had a direct correlation with their maneuvers, and by golly, when you look
at it in the context of scientific studies unrelated to UFOs about how this elf
and this affects the human nervous system and brain, you begin to understand something.
A part of it is in the deep RESTful sleep range. Now,
if you're asleep and one of these things comes around, that might explain why
one of a couple gets up to go to the bathroom sees an incredible thing
a close range out the bathroom window can't awake the spouse to see it because
it's weird that cannot be awakened. That might be explained by the fact that
when ELIF in this range is affecting the brain, it actually replicates what is
impinging on it. And if it's deep RESTful sleep, it could be very
hard to wake you up. But if you are awake, it gives you
a wonderful, rested, relaxed feeling that we jokingly call. You would spell
it in the Dixonary euph o r I a u furia, but we spell
it ufo ria because based on the recordings we made in broad daylight with multiple
witnesses and instrument recording in film. We believe that this frequency, it can
be perceived consciously and it makes you feel surprisingly good. You might feel like
when you wake up on an autumn morning in the atmosphere is so clear and
end this atmospheric high, that kind of thing, or you might be a
teenage a kid that all of a sudden realized, Hey, today's to day.
I have that secret meeting in the woods with my best girlfriend. I
mean, it's a kind of thing, that energy, and it's a wonderful
thing, and we call it euphoria. And I believe that people could be
trained to become walking talking UFO detectors, but I'm not going to go into
the business of training them or I'll be called a god man. Wow.
Yeah, I remember one of the sightings you said was actually on an airline.
You mentioned you sought back something in nineteen seventy nine, but I remember
you said you reached over and grabbed your camera, and well, that's right.
Well I tell you what. We had taken off from New York.
This was seventy seven Brandish Flight nine, and as we were coming we were
through what they called pe soup. We were in clouds, and we were
flying out in New York City to Dallas Fort Worth and ran to fly night.
And what happens is I felt this we tired experience before. And I
said to my wife, who was right beside Nichourse in the airline, see,
I said, listen, I said, you're trying to go to sleep,
but I feel it when we get through the clouds, there's going to
be one out there. I can feel that so strongly that I felt before.
And she said, look, she was pregnant. She was going to
have her first child in May, as it turns out, and this was
December, and she said, look, I've got to get some sleep.
I think I'm coming down with a cold. I have a headache, I
feel nauseated. I've got to get them. Don't you if you see one.
You showed me enough of these things since we got married. Don't wake
me up. And I said, okay, and but just what Then she
said, wait a minute, wake me after you see a mother ship,
because I haven't seen one. And to believe it or not, about two
hours later, well, when we got out of the clouds, there was
this beautiful object pacing our plane and I said, I've got to film you.
I've got to film you, guys. And I grabbed on my seat
and I part and I had the case. It had two pad pads on
top, had the lockdown I had unlocked them, and I got really upset
that I couldn't get it. And the thing took off like a proverbial bat
out of health and shot straight up, this straight up at tremendous speed and
left. But about two hours later into the flight, I saw what appeared
to be the same type of object, but instead of being looking with the
surface that looked like liquid mercury, it had a surface that was so black
it seemed to absorb every light ray that hit unless it was hit at a
very narrow oblique angle and then suddnight we reflected off of it there. But
I began to get filmed and I got multiple minutes in broad daylight this object,
and it led me my camera and my camera of course to the big
carrier mothership whatever you want to call it, that was out there that we
now know from data and the film was about one hundred and sixty five miles
away from the camera, but it was huge, and we have we have
size day to own this big thing and these objects were going to and from
it like crazy and incredible speech. They were dranger objects, they were disc
and I got wonderful film and the whole story were really well documented. I
don't want to get into that because we're going to try to get into ten
million years ago. Yeah, but anyway, that was a prime example of
feeling the euphoria and being able to benefit by it and getting a film right
before we get into ten million or more years ago. I just wanted to
allow that if someone wanted to call in, we're going to put the call
in number up and if you're over at KGr Hey Radio, that number is
six h three nine sixty seven four h three. Oh. And what I'd
like to allow is if anyone wants to call in and talk about UFOs before
we changed the subject. And so if no one, if no one does
speak right up, then we are going to move on to the dinosaurs.
So along those lines, right, you actually had a sighting when you went
to pick sheel up one day, right, yes, yeah, yes,
oh, that was in nineteen eighty nine. At that time, this was
before she went with the Hubble space telescope servicing missions, and she was in
public affairs it Godard and I had back in those days before nine to eleven,
so you could park your car right in front of Billing eight, which
is the administration building. And I had in my car with me in its
case a thousand millimeter telephoto in a thirty five millimeter camera. That's a twenty
power lens, and it was a high quality, expensive lens, and I
pull up there. In Monaho, there is a shape UFO on the western
horizon, and at that point in time it had what I now known to
have been plasma around its surface, but it was It was like a biconvex
disc, except it was like two cones and flage to flange. But as
I filmed it, it actually the plasma moved off its surface and began to
contour the dipolar magnetic field. Now people don't know that term. You would
probably have though in school, have had a bar magnet under a piece of
paper and scattered shavings around, and you see that pattern. It has two
poles north and south, we're called and that's a two dimensional version of it.
But this looked like a three dimensional version in the sky because you can't
see a magnetic field. But if there is plasma, which is emitting light.
Because of the energy in it and the electrons moving from one orbit to
another and emitting light, you will be able to see it. And I
could see it, and I got one absolutely. I think it was the
fifth photograph. Spectacular, beautiful photograph of this beautiful field around this object.
And at that point, once the plasma is off the surface, you can
actually see that there are what I call these compositional panels that I talked about
earlier, like in that disc we saw, you can actually see them on
the surface. It's it's not a blob of light, it's not something you
can't see something. You can actually see the panels, but most spectacularly,
this beautiful three dimensional magnetic field around it. And so that was that was
in November of nineteen eighty nine, taken from right in front of the administration
building of the Nassacator Space Flight Scenery. When the thing left, I rushed
in and told my wife and even called someone from the well to get the
name of the local UF organization to tell him about it. But I made
a drawing for Sheila so silverth and that was really when I got the pictures
back. I was just so thrilled because I'll tell you too, I'd bout
to commitment. There you imagine that part about the field that's too good to
be true, but there it was on the film, just beautiful, amazing,
amazing. So someone just try to call in and they hang up.
So if you are calling in, just keep in mind that I'm not going
to interrupt Ray while i was talking. So just hang there and then I'll
introduce you. And also make sure that you have your radio or computer or
whatever it is you're listening, to make sure that you have that muted at
that time, if you would. So we're still taking calls. Everyone wants
to call in, otherwise we're going to switch a subject here really quickly.
And so Ray, you have also for the person that has not heard you
for the first time, this is their first time listening to you. I
want to say you mentioned earlier about your book on Skoro, and you have
written the best book. There's been a couple of others, or at least
one other, or I remember you mentioning Lonnie's a Morris daughter told you that
you had written the best account of what happened. Well, yes, well
you see, Lonnie told her that she when she turned twenty one said,
Dad, you never want to talk about this. Could you please stop twenty
one? Can you please tell me what you saw go into? And he
said, look sel at file of their everybody sent me articles, people writing
about this. Nobody get right. If you want the full story accurately,
there's only one person that got it right, and that's race Standard in that
book over there that you see on the shelf. And he said, if
you'll read that, you'll know everything that us all and you'll learn a lot
more. And so she contacted me and was very appreciative. Wow, yeah,
yeah, that's still in my book, one of the best. Uh,
you know, it's in the definitely in the top ten sightings. And
would you consider, if you could be biased, would you agree with that
it is certainly in North America? It is the absolutely best documented coos encounter
of the third kind. Were a person where the policeman, Lanni Samoa,
the Cooro policeman, saw two diminutive arguments in what appeared to be white coveralls
outside the craft. Yes, it is certainly North America's, in my opinion,
most credible close encounter of the third kind. And you were there shortly
after the one part I don't think we've ever discussed on the show. Is
how you found out about it? How did you find out about Yeah,
well I didn't know about it. And I got a call from a friend
of mine, Bob Matthews, in in Corpus Christi, Texas, my hometown
now there, and he said, my gosh, why aren't you in Zikoro?
Why should I be in Zicaro? And he said, well, the
policeman there has seen a graph landed with some marcumens outside. I said,
oh, my gosh. And suddenly my mother and father sent me a clipping
out of the perpecate paper talking about it. I think it was headed long
tall object has hot feet, which is kind of stupid. But anyway,
I made arrangement and took off horse of cool and arrived there on Monday.
It was on a Friday evening that this happened, and I arrived there,
and I happened to arrive at the very time at the same time, just
a little bit after Heineck had arrived there. And so now Heineck knew me
from correspondence on another important UFO case back in nineteen fifty nine. And so
when I told Lonnie Zamor to tell him he was going to be interviewed by
telling him that Ray Stanford is here and would like you to get together on
this. Heineck actually over the protests of New Mexico State Police Sergeant Samuel Chavis,
who didn't like any of these investigators coming in on what he thought was
a secret government craft that had landed there. Heinik insisted that they let me
come out to the site while he was questioning Zamora and Chavis. And that's
how I got to the side and got turned onto some remarkable things and wrote
the book, which was published in nineteen seventy six. It took me years
of research to try to make sure that everything was accurate. I did it
so well that I had a lawyer read it before I probably to make sure
nobody could sue me. And he said, Ray, you missed your calling.
He said, I think you'd better go back to school and become a
lawyer in Austin. Later, I have another lawyer friend reading he said the
same thing. I really did work though to make a good case, and
it was. It was a lot of fun, But nobody knows the work
that goes into an important case like that. If you're really going to document
it. Well, I gotta tell you we first started talking back several years
ago. I'm thinking I don't know, maybe six five or six years ago.
You sent me the book and it was an excellent read. You still
have some of those books, right? Yes? I do have. I
they're the original first edition, and I have quite a few copies left,
not a huge number because most of them have sold, but I have copies
that have you know, the dust jacket. They look like you would have
bought them back in nineteen seventy six. And you know people won't them.
I can tell them that they can get order them. And the cost is
with the shipping is fifty five dollars and that's sheet compared to what some guys
I know various places have sold them for sold them up to four hundred and
fifty dollars a piece. But I'll sign them for you if you want them
signed with or without your name in the signing, and to get him to
you for that price by by priority mail with tracking. Yeah. Well,
just anyone that wants to anyone that wants to order a book. And I
got to tell you it's one of my very favorite books. I really really
enjoyed it. And I let someone borrow it. I've been waiting to get
it back. They were They loved it too. But anyway, anyone wants
to order a book, just write me at Martinette Podcast UFO dot com and
I'll pass it along to Ray and you're you're welcome to all right, so
we don't have any callers on the UFO topics. We're going to move on
and we're going to talk about your discovery. On the first break, you
mentioned that you were in the Guardard Space Center parking lot waiting for Sheila and
you happen to see a rock stick out and something made you get out of
the car and go check it out. Is that the first set of track?
You found? Other tracks before that? Right? Oh? Yes,
I've found hundreds and hundreds of them beginning Well, it's been now twenty five
years, and I blame my eldest son who talked me into buying a book
on tracking, and doctor Martin locklace Book, who's now been on my track
papers. He's been one of my coauthors and it us that's how I got
it got into it. I mean, I really wasn't interested in dinosaurs and
tracking only superficially for the purpose. When my kids are growing up, I
was showing them the tracks down in Texas. But when we got into it
and I begin to find these things. I mean I have found hundreds of
tracks and small trackways, anosaurs and flying reptals. I have the only flying
rental tracks that Rubin found the eastern USA. Because people don't know what to
look for. Most people can recognize one of the types of donostair tractor,
your treeto track that you might have seen in close encounters of the third kind
after t rex had walked there. But most people don't know what a flying
reptals track look like. But if you studied lockleaf books, you find out.
And that's how I begin to find these They're not all that they're rare,
but not all that rare that you can't find them around here. Now,
is there a certain type of rock that you have to look for where
these impressions actually stay. Yes. In the first place, if you want
to look for a dinosaur age tracks, whether it's from the mammals or the
flying rentals or the downosaurs, what you do. You go to your local
geological survey and you want to look in stream beds where there are out of
croppings of rocks of the age of dinosaurs. Here they are, of course,
there are what are called lower Cretaceous early Cretaceous, and the ones I
find are about one hundred ten hundred two years old, but you'll need to
get your geological maps and look for them. Here they have a nice deep
green for that outcropping, and you're not going to find dinosaur tracks where there
were the rocks at the wrong age, but here locally they are. They
can either be various shades of brown or they can be beautiful even combinations of
hematite, a red form of loosely consolidated hematite, and lamonite, which is
yellow, and that makes a beautiful combination. Sometimes you'll believe or not you'll
have a red track on a yellow background, or vice versa. And that's
that has caused me and many other people that have seen them to say that
Maryland has the most beautiful dinosaur tracks in the world. How about that?
So you want to your discovery was extremely important and also because there were mammals
involved too, right, that's correct. Yeah, the in fact owned a
sled Goddard. It's it's about two square meters size, about the size of
a decent size but not large, not huge a dining table, and it's
actually eight and a half feet long and thirty nine inches at the very widest
and owned there there are nearly one hundred, let's be conservative and say ninety
footprints, but at least forty, maybe a few more than forty of them
are by mammals, and by at least three kinds of mammals, the tracks
of which have never been seen before, including when we published it. The
largest published track of a mammal from the dinosaur rays it has ever been seen,
bigger than adult badger's track four inches long, with very evidence of very
sharp claws. But you had these little mammals, the smaller ones, digging
around in what back then was clumps of feces from probably larger dinosaurs from the
looks of it, and the flies had laid their eggs in there, and
the larvae into some big flies and some big larvae, and these mammals are
digging them out. You can see where some of them were dug out,
and you see their claw marks where these little guys were going after the goody
protein sources in the sea. And but all the while tracking slowly four trackways
through the whole dang going west are the tracks of small flesh eating dinosaurs,
and they are. We know they're tracking slowly because of the close spacing of
the footprints. We did a calculation. We found out these little guys were
moving less than a half mile per hour. But there's method in the madness.
They wanted to move slowly so not be not distract the mammals from there
eating the larvae, so they can jump and eat the mammals. And and
you know, it's it's a it's all a dog eat dog society, I
guess. And but that big mammal was so big it could have eaten the
mammals. Are in fact the therapods, the small therapods. They were eating
the mammals, and it could have eaten some of the flying repples. We
have a footprint of a pretty good size flying repples, probably had a let's
say, a wingspan of say eighteen feet fifteen eighteen feet, And I do
have elsewhere it's yet to be published, but I have a footprint of a
mammal left front footprint of another mammal flying repple terrastare you'll know, misterodactyl.
Maybe we have one that is fifteen inches long. It's the biggest ever found.
And we have the feeding traces that are compatible size with that show where
it's struck that big beak down into them, up and pulled up to pull
whatever was living under their out to have a meal. So tell me what
did what did the Gardard Space Center have to say about the discovery. They
were delighted, they were thrilled. In fact, when the paper came out
on the evening of the thirty first of January this year, the Earth Science
of throwing a big party in the building thirty three, which is the Earth
Science Facility, in the atrium there, and we have the nice We have
a full size, total detailed three dimensional reproduction made from a latex mold and
carefully colored exactly like the real thing up there on the wall at an angle
with the map explaining it below, which we'll see some ends of. And
the thing is that I mean, they were packed in, they were thrilled.
I'll tell you a funny story to show you the human side of this.
When I discovered this track and finally announced it to public affairs. Well,
there's a section of Dollar's Base Flight Center that are known as the facilities
people and they were begetting ready to build. I did not know this when
I found this, a thirty five million dollars flight projects facility and part of
it would have a piline go right down in the middle of where this was.
Well, this means we got to stop and get that thing out of
here. Those tracks and so here they're delayed, and they were worried about
it costing money and they were very upset and let it be known. And
what is this guy coming along finding donosaur and mammal tracks when we were building
of earth face projects flight projects facility. Well, however, I have to
say that the guy in charge that came up at the at the big party
of the stone afterward and greeted me in the most wonderful eye. He said,
thank you, congratulations. You know I was upset when this happened,
but he said, I want to congratulate you. This is wonderful and I
say, all's well. That ends well. And the authorities, in fact,
we had the paper sharper than I would have liked. I wrote it
originally a lot longer, but like I talked, but it actually we reduced
it down because they wanted to go ahead and get this thing published, and
the longer paper is the longer it takes the peer reviewers to study it and
pick it apart if they can, and so and so forth, so and
we succeeded. It was published in Nature's Scientific Reports, and everybody was just
strilled. The New York Times did a beautiful coverage on it, with very
good pictures, as I showed in the slugs, and so did the Washington
Post. And some wonderful TV coverages were done on it. The best TV
coverage was was on a network that I don't normally watch. It was on
the Fox News Sunday. But the wonderful interview there, Uh did a marvelous
job, and he was deeply appreciative and didn't bring any politics into it at
all. And if one can go there and see it, it's it's the
best interview with me that was done this whole time. And I was.
I was all over the world on TV, and I was I had to
sit there for day after day as media people would come in and want to
do their interviews. And one day I was there, UH, just sitting
there waiting for the next interview, and here comes an important looking guy with
guys in black suits around it. Oh boy, But they looked like,
you know that they might be secret service people or something. Well it turns
out. But then they got close enough, I realized that the the the
director of Goddard was there. But the guy with him was was the what
then was the the the congressman Stenny Holler. He's still congressman, but he
was the the what's called a minority whip at that time. And he was
coming there and he walked up and stopped and I'm just sitting there, not
really I didn't realize it was Holier, but he stopped and he said,
who found this wonderful thing? He shouted that out, and I confessed and
he said, look, he said, I asked some question. I'm excited
interested in this. And there you'll see a picture of him with the director
of the right side, Steve Coleys with him, and he asked wonderful questions.
I never expected this of a politician, but he was genuinely interested in
and has some great questions which I really appreciated. Wow, isn't that something?
And then you're a national geographic right in the magazine and uh, oh
that's right. Yeah. They did a coverage back in November of last year
of flying the flying repless Terras stars and they did. They have a picture
of me sitting in my living room chair, easy chair in the corner of
the living room. Yeah, yeah, I got to see that. So
this is kind of amazing. So you had let me just ask you this
kind of oddball question. At any point when you were talking about dinosaurs,
did anyone actually find any connection with you in UFOs and talk to you about
it? Yes, a few of them did. And when I explained that
my approach to UFOs is just as scientific and as skeptical as it is when
I come across something in a stream bit and ask myself what it is,
I try to be objective. And those that have learned about it and asked
me about it, we're quite accepting of my position on it. I don't
take the position and don't tell them me to ge man, there's little green
men out there or something like that. I say that, apparently there is
a sophisticated technology that if we can tap it with instruments and get into it
and be of immense value to humankind. And they understand that, and they
now that. Of course, the New York Times article has helped public relations
on this, I think, although I'm not really impressed with the infrared videos,
still it has helped a lot, and so everything has gone quite well.
Nobody has written me off because I'm involved with scientific u cities. Yeah,
that's that's good. And I know, you know, just just going
back to that just a little bit, I know there are people from Goddard
that actually have visited you and have talked to you about about your your images
and everything else. Right, well, that's right. In fact, there's
one major major scientists. They're senior scientists who, in fact, I have
reason to believe from what I've heard that he is the most in scientific papers,
scientifically cited his papers of any any scientists at god A Space Flight Center.
And he's been here sellow times and three of the times, maybe four
or five of the times he's looked at those himatite UFO disc and he said,
Ray, you know, those have to be the convincing evidence I've ever
seen that extraterrestals visitors long ago. And here's you know, here's a high
level scientist saying this. And he I don't say, what do you think
of these? He tells me this spontaneously. He keeps seeing them and making
that comment, and it's been that reaction to a lot of people. Now.
Now some of them though, are intimidated and they don't ask that looks
like flying sociers. I'm not going to get into this subject, but there's
top level scientist and others who have been there have had a very positive and
very open minded reaction. Yeah. Yeah, um so I was so glad
because that this, this whole thing happened to you, going back to the
dinosaur thing, just because I think that you really had uh, you know,
you have a lot of respect due to you, because I know you've
taken you know, the UFO field seriously and if you'd actually find um these
tracks I know that you had in your basement. Was it the molded copy
that you had? I know you were looking at the studying this thing for
a long time, writing in your basement. Right now, this was This
is the actual one that's displayed in building thirty three, got its Earthyme's facility.
Now it was made a latex mod was made of the actual slab that
I found after it was cleaned off, and then they cast it into some
kind of white material and then colored it exactly to match and then even as
when I find these in the stream bad you'll find fine silt is drift in
the low places and makes you notice tracks you won't notice. So they wanted
me to make the big notice our track and the one big sauropod track visible.
I'm doing this, and I scattered some this silt around it. By
gosh, when it begin to fall into other places and little patterns, Oh
my gosh, there are all kind of tracks on here. And here were
all these this drama of the interaction of these animals going on. And when
I saw that there were mammal trucks with inner action of theropods and these others,
these flying reptals that were landing right nearby, I called this chief scientist,
had Godard, and I said, Jim, are you sitting down And
he said yes, And I said, look, they are mammal tracks over
there with those. And he says, oh my gosh, he said,
I think we got something really really important. I said, you met,
we do. And so there it was. It's the biggest congregation. There
were more tracks on that slab at Goddard and two square meters than in the
entire age of dinosaurs from all the world had been found some together right there,
and I'll have to say they were two. They chose a good place
that one hundred and ten million years ago would be Goddard Space Flight Center.
I can't say they smelled it coming back anyway. It was a popular place
back then. Now now, the one thing did they go ahead and build
this building. They went in Melton and they put one column down. Had
I not discovered this, sometimes I think I'm on an unconscious rescue mission because
I not found this. Had I even found it two weeks later, I
would never have stopped him. They would have gone ahead and would have put
this down, and we started this incredibly scientifically important column. But it had
been cut out on the north side by heavy equipment years before, and on
the I'm sorry, on the west side and the east side and it but
the piece was there originally where it was when the animals stepped on it,
and so that's that's what happened. But ed Goddard, most of the things
have been ground up, as you suggested earlier, by heavy equipment. But
you'll find some tracks and pieces of tracks that are around in the ravines where
they had dumped this stuff that they moved to make the basements and the buildings,
and so they're still sentify found. But we've tried to find other big
slabs, but we cannot find any. Yeah, I mean, I would
think this is almost like a gold rushan away with something important like this has
found where you really want to scout um, you know, scout the area.
So it sounds like you've done that more or less, that's right,
and we've we've cautiously cautioned the people that got or did if they're caught finding
and stealing these things, they could go to prison on his government property,
and were very we try to be very careful to discourage that. Although we
did find a place where someone had farently dug out a track, and not
only that, but a major scientist got here and I got got hooked on
trying to track downosaurs after the fine there we were at one day and we
found a track. But at that point, you know how government regulations are,
we didn't have a clearance of where you would take any tracks if you
found them. Uh, you leave government property where it is, So we
just moved it out of the streams there ele washed away and put it under
a bush. But guess what the news had already broken about the fines there
somebody was watching us. We went back a couple of days later and somebody
had seen us and had stolen the track. We don't know who's solely wow
wow and so um. But there's no other there's no type of detection.
I mean, it would just if you tried to detect something like that,
like under the grass or under you know, the layer of dirt, layers
of dirt. Uh, there's just no way of doing it because it would
just show up as a rock, right yeah, well, yeah. We
have some pictures that show a lady pulling an interesting looking red electronic box and
its ground finitating radar that they that god Ad paid to be brought in from
New Mexico, and she went over the area and there's several years they thought,
oh my gosh, he maybe hitting another slab of these tracks on it.
But is one of the pictures was quite funny. One guy dubbed down
where the radar said it should be and all you see is you see is
the lower part of his hips and his legs sticking out of the ground.
And I put a thing there that he says, it's only clay. It
was an ironbearing clay that was affecting the radar, and so we did not
succeed in finding any other slabs. And we have we have looked all over
Goddard far it and there are no so horse We've been able to find anyway
slabs like that right at the surface, but only in that case, only
only the big squeezed up edge of the Notice our track was visible but the
grass. But why would I notice it and nobody else? Because I tracked
dinosaurs And it's like an astrophysic told me, he said, ray every day
for seven years, four and five days a week, I've walked down there,
past that, within four to six feet of it, going to the
cafeteria, and I never saw it. I said, yeah, look,
your mind is looking up. You're an astral physicist. I'm looking down,
or you're looking both. I'm looking both as a drup of matter, but
hopefully not at the same time, at least when I'm driving. I had
parked. I had parked in the parking lot because I saw this, and
I said, I gotta have a look. I walked over there and I
thought, my gosh, Notice our tracks are rare, and here's the most
beautiful, big notice oar tract that I've ever seen right there at Gotter Spaceles
Center. Now the notice ours like armored, an armored dinosaur, right,
yeah, he's like a tank on four legs. He's very armored as that.
As we were showing a model in some of the some of the pictures
from the public factors out there, got some pictures I brought a model of
a notice are they had these big ridged armored and then some of them are
actually big spikes that stick out. But if they're babies, they don't.
They grow as they grow or they get these rougher and rougher surface. Now,
I do believe when I visited you that in your own personal collection you
had a dinosaur track, but there was also a cat footprint. Am I
getting that right? No? Not a cat, No, no, I
have. We have bigger tracks of mammals than the one that got her that
four inches long. We have some spectacular tracks that I've found, and one
of them looks like a gigantic lion track mountain lionel but it's bigger than a
land than an adult lion track. And we don't see the back of a
zoo if it was elongated or if it was sharter like it would be on
a fee line a lion or a mountain lion or a cat. But it
is spectacular. You can even see between where the toenails were in the toe,
you can see that it had and it's just pictaker. And I found
right beside it another piece of the heavy equipment of broken years ago, with
a nice three toed dinosaur track walking the same substrate, exactly that this giant
mammal had been walking. Now, Ray, you and I had a discussion
about this one time, because there is some people kind of pushing a theory
that you know, men walk beside dinosaur and I believe it's in Texas somewhere
where they went through layers of rock and they found footprints that look like human
footprints next to dinosaur prints. And you had an answer for that, right.
Indeed, island answer for it. It's been investigated thoroughly, and one
of the chief investigators of this is a perfect friend of mine. And the
to of the matter is the tracks they call man tracks. They say,
well, these were giants, Well, how come these tracks or three feet
long while it was a giant? Well it's awfully Now what it is is
that dinosaurs fleshing, donostaurs, the theoppods when they wanted, if they heard
a row of something that might be dangerous, they would lure their profile.
Or if it was so muddy that they didn't want to sink down too much,
they would lure off their three toes normally walk down, but they keep
their metal I called the metatasses, the bows beyond the toes upward. But
they would lure their profile like a snow shoot to keep you from sinking in
the snow, to keep them from sinking in the mud. And that's all
in the world. It is what these dishonest people trying to prove that the
world's only five thousand years old, we're doing. They weren't telling you or
showing you upstream where the animal went up slope. And as he goes up
slope, he rises up on his toes what's called digital grade, and went
out of plant a grade. We have a fine example of this. And
they got her to slam smaller but the same type of dinosaur. And when
he walked through an area that was wet, then he lured down on the
metatassis. But you see, as soon as it climbs up the slope,
it gets back up on his toes slowly again right causes a track to be
preserved, or in this case, so many. You know, I think
about people walk every day and then how could you know footprints be preserved.
Yeah, the people don't realize what happens in the first place. In most
of these cases, the tracks were probably exposed for a little while, maybe
enough slightly dry out, or there may have been a low grade water moved
over them. And ferrophagic bacteria These are bacteria that means bacteria that eat iron.
They get in there and they excrete hematide and it coats it and creates
basically an armor plating. In some cases that doesn't happen, but there are
bacterial slime that builds upon it. It drives out, Then the water receded
drives out a little bit. You've got this tiny little microscopic bearer, and
then a fledge comes and covers it up. But years later, when they're
trying to deepen the streams, for example here, to keep up water out
of their streets, they cut through here and they break this the upper layer
off, and it exposes these layers where the tracks are. It separates that
way because I think because mainly the bacterial mat that was there, whether it's
one that it was formed as iron through the iron eating bacteria, or whether
there's another other types of bacteria. I think bacteria are largely responsible for for
this, enabling the substrates that's above it to separate and sometimes we get Thus
the what was above it that filled the track, We've got it as where
you see the track as if it were three, the mental land, the
other one beneath it where it sinks down. You got both the top one
and the bottom. Sometimes we'll find a piece on it. Well, we'll
see a crack. You jar it a little bit and it comes loose,
and you've got the nice infal on one side and the track on the other.
It's really nice when you're showing this to children, for example, to
help them understand what was happening, how it got preserved. How can how
can you guess how many years span say, for instance, that slab,
it sounded like there was maybe a predator situation there, But if not,
can many years go by on the same in the same area where these things
are preserved? Or is this just something that is for you know, ephemeral
to say a month or a week or a day or whatever. We believe
that the gutter tracks were probably made in largest time a few hours and maybe
no more than a couple of days. It could have been a week,
but probably not because we don't see any stepping on top of each other.
But when you look at that slab, there's there's the arramstone which is brown
red, and then you'll have white. The slab weighs about three and a
half times, but you'll see a layer of softer white step and then you'll
see another armstone layer. Well, if we ever get the financing to cut
that apart and dissolve the softer white area, we'll have another layer with a
bunch of tracks on it. Probably we've got two other layers, I think
beneath that. These were much earlier. You see, and then as as
infill in in the floodplane kept bringing dirt down and covering it up. Then
you get to an area where there was a high bacterial content of the type
that would leave the would create the ironstone, and the situated and create the
ironstone. But sometimes they're preserved in just a siltstone or even sandstone that's been
hardened by by silicon infusion, and so there are many ways of farms in
which he can get preserved. But and you can have one on top of
the other. It can get remarkable. And sometimes we have a wonderful track
in which you see the track on topping can turned over and you see the
negative of it, you see the push down and you can even see where
in one case the dinosaur got his foot stuck in the clay and twisted it
to get his toes out of the clay and lifted it out. I mean,
it's it's almost as if you could get a step in a time machine
and actually see it happening. It's really wonderful when you get to studying it.
Oh I bet, I bet, that's it's fast to me. Now
what about unknown or found species? Has any of that appeared in tracks themselves?
Oh? Yes. Now we can't talk of specific species of animals from
tracks. We can talk about species of tracks. And in other words,
when you have a track with that that's well documented, several examples, and
you can say it has certain types of farm and qualities to it, then
just like an animal species, you can publish it as a trace. Species
is called in the papers, and it's noo or trace species. And it's
not telling you the species of the donosaur, it's the species of track.
For example, no one had ever found and published the tracks of a hip
clophen on, a planeting donosaur, but I repeatedly kept finding them around here.
So I wrote a paper and Martin Luck they joined me on it,
and we published a paper about a new what you would call it is no
species or trace species. And his name is a hips witness Merrill Anachus well
obviously of Maryland, but hipsilo means the trace of a hipsilophidon, never been
published before. But we had not only the back foot print, but the
front foot print with it in two examples, one from up in Baltimore and
one down here, and it was just wonderful. It tremendous documentation. And
the foot the type of the feetble the back and the front are different from
what I'd ever seen on any of the dinosaurs. And we get those two
unique tracks together, you've definitely got a hipsiloicness meryl Aannicus. So we were
the this is of Maryland gets credit for providing the first example worldwide of the
hips of the tracks of a hips toophodon. But We have also other new
species of Donostair tracks yet to be published, and we published one in the
Goddard paper and we gave it a name that I'll tell you I have travel
remembering this name. I'm eighty years old, but it was it had daughterd
INSS after Goddard, and so it we've given Goddard to credit for. It's
it's a mammal track, so it's you know what, you have footprint species,
but people should not mistake them for a species of animal. They're really
just a scientific classification to footprint, even as we classify animals as species.
Now, I know you and I have talked briefly, I don't know,
maybe a few years ago about this, but I never really got your feeling
on it. I kind of have mixed feelings myself. But you know,
because I'm in the fine arts and the antiques and the auction business, I
kind of pay attention to things. And you know, there was a t
rex uh you know, skeleton basically that was found that sold for multimillions of
dollars and I at auction, and I just wondered what you thought about about
commercializing. You know, when something goes to auction and I know, it's
museums that typically want to want to own it, and that's what the demand
for it. That's right, Well, it's it's a it's really it's a
human problem that sometimes innervaces and conflicts with the scientific challenges. And uh,
the I'll tell you I am not impressed with museums paying millions of dollars for
t Rex. Everybody knows you can go to a museum that Scott, You've
got good t Rex skeletons. They're not really the skeleton, but they're made
of casts of the bones and they look exactly like the real thing. And
a museum, in my opinion, has better ways to spend his money than
than I mean, how many kids must you go enable to say Rex and
it's so silly, I mean, it's it should you should In my opinion,
this Scotdard slad should be on displayed out in the Smithsonian and it should
interret kids to learn what they themselves can discover when you make discoveries on there.
They can have an interactive that enable them to make discoveries and they would
feel their own ability to do some rudimentary science. This is the kind of
thing not that Drew Rugos t rex, but something else that that goes deeper
and gets inside of them and lets them know that there can be a more
interesting world than what they see in that little electronic box on their hand.
And I feel strongly about that. However, the curator Dons Maisonian, when
I had made these discoveries on the slab working on the reproduction slide, we
didn't know that many tracks for on it at all. We just knew the
notice our track and the baby and the big sarpot track. The rest of
we didn't know. But he came overside. But the thing is, unfortunately,
by that time they are at this new wing that's going to open up
the end of next year. I think it is they already had, as
he said, every boat and screw and the thing had already planned. They
couldn't could find a way to get this in because everything was predesigned and bought
in effect through the contractors, and so there's nothing they could do about it.
But I think that had the right display with this and the idea that
said, Goddar's Space Flight Center, where astrophysicists are walking right over things,
they're looking out at the space millions of years and not noticing the millions of
years down at their feet. I think it would have been a tremendous drawing
card. There's the little dinosaur that I have down there in the little notice
our track of a junior notice or that gave beside it this displayed. I
mean it has millions of viewers a year. I forget the figure, but
there's it's over a million. I think it was at least two points.
Some think million people would pass through there per year. But if they had
a thing like this with the map down below? By the way, are
we going to be able to show any of those pictures of the dinosaurs the
slab with the map? Did you know what? Ray? I think there
was an issue with that. Maybe I only was able to download one and
I thought they were the same. Right, you probably sent me to of
the Oh yeah, yeah, I'm terribly sorry about that. Terribly sorry.
That's that's my fault. Yeah, I love people have seen it. But
anyway, in your promo though, you had a nice link in the promo
for this. You'll find in there a nice link to a site that I
had not even seen, and it shows the slab and the map that my
wife and I laboriously made to explain to you the track. So somebody wants
to go there and click on that link. I appreciate you putting it in.
They can see that for themselves and study it. Okay, all right,
great, Um, just uh let's see. Uh we we have just
like I think three or four minutes left here. Ray. So, Um,
when I visited you, we're going to shift gears a little bit.
And I really appreciate your work and I was absolutely thrilled. I'm still very
thrilled of all the publicity you actually got in um, your great work that
you did when it comes to the dinosaur tracking, I've it's it's been a
lot of fun and i've i've i've we've been in touch through this whole time
when you've gone through this whole thing, and and I'm proud of you.
Ray Well, thank you. Yeah, but I wanted to talk when you
gave me the tour, um, I was actually, uh that was very
nice. And we spent some time with a gentleman with the last name Bartlett
there satellite engineer I believe or something. But when you gave me the tour
there at Goddard was it the James Webb telescope that we saw them working on,
trying to remember what it was. Yes, as a matter of fact,
and I've had some nice conversation with the Nobel lawyer who's the scientific head
of that that project and uh in a very very nice fellow. But yeah,
the part you mentioned he designed, he believed or not, he was
responsible to the design of I think either eleven or thirteen of the instruments that
are owned the Mavin arbiter, Mars arbiter that's in arbit now that is studying
things about the upper atmosphere that gives us clues as to what happened to change
the Martian atmosphere over the ages in the past, and and and and Bob
did the design, as I said, of most I think of the instruments
that were owned there, I was amazed at how many he had the big
design port in. Yeah, and he's a guy that took you on the
nice tour around Goddard, that's right. And I it's actually impressed that him,
along with other uh you know, other scientists there that are kind of
open minded. Going back to the UFO topic, So, yeah, they're
very open minded when when you get them privately, as I suspect some of
them if they were in the crowd of God had employees there, they might
be a little more intimidated. I can't speak for them, but privately,
I mean, they know me as a rational person who made major world class
discoveries there God had run under their feet, and they respect me. And
so when I begin to talk about another type of hard evidence that we've gotten
in the way of films and magnetometer and gravimeter and even spectrographic recordings, hard
data from UFOs, they take notice and they realize I'll say, I'll say
something I cannot call the name, but I can say that a person with
a PhD in a major physics, a field of physics, and that has
had the high levels of government clearance because of projects he's worked on both with
the Navy and with the intellist community, and an interface with NASSA. He
has often had lunch and he's not We've not called his name on this show
at all. He has twice said something quite remarkable to my wife, Sheila
and me. One day he totally said he took up. He stood up.
One day we were getting ready to leave and he said, Ray and
Sheila, anybody who is anyone, and he meant in you know, in
the inside of sciential research with massive so SO knows about the extraterrestrial technology.
Those are the exact words. He didn't say beings. He said the extra
terrestrial technology that is visiting our atmosphere. And one day months later he was
there with his son, who is also an engineer, and our scientists sometimes
I mean exactly what, And we were sitting there talking and he made the
exact at the same statement in front of a sun and to us. And
I do not ask people who have learned things on a basis of security clause.
I think it is unfair to ask them to betray their oath to their
country to because there may be reasons we don't understand for national security. I'm
very cautious about what I have gotten because I realized some of it. Maybe
this has been my major holdback is that I feel I've got some Mattie that
is possibly a furdinit of national security. And I really I try to be
conscious, and I don't. I never want to offend or ask anybody to
offend their to the government in their positions of security, so I don't.
I did not press this fellow feather and say, wait a minute, what
do you know? How do you know it? We just took him at
his word. Well, we're out of time, Ray. So I will
also remind people that if you want to get that great book about the car
case, just to email me. Thanks so much, Ray, It's always
a pleasure, a great pleasure. Okay, thank you. All right,
all right, everyone, So that's it for our show, and thanks so
much for listening. We're going to be back next week with Terry Lovelace.
Should be a real great guest. I'm really looking forward to that, and
I want to thank you all for listening, and remember to keep your eyes
to the sky.